Andor - S02E05 - I Have Friends Everywhere

[00:00:00] Lord Vader, Operation Andor is underway. Excellent. If we release three episodes per week, The Lorehounds will never be able to cover every episode. The Imperial forces will crush the Rebellion before it begins. Standby. We're picking up something on our scanners. Echo Squadron reporting in. Delta Squadron on your left. Jango Squadron on your 6. With Imperial forces coming in fast, we're calling all Rebels to join the fight this season.

[00:00:27] Starting after the April 22nd premiere, you'll hear three full breakdowns for each week's episodes of Andor Season 2. Each podcast will be led by one of our Squadron leaders, Alicia, David and Jon. We'll be bringing in new and familiar voices to fill out the roster. Search for The Lorehounds on any podcast platform to join us in a galaxy far, far away. And don't forget to check out our Season Pass for even more content like our Holocron bonus pods. It's good news for anyone, except Darth Vader.

[00:00:55] Echo Squadron reporting in. To anyone else on this comm link, send all transmissions to andor at thelorehounds.com and get Holocron bonus episodes for 10 credits with our Season Pass on the show notes. Rebels, may the Force be with you.

[00:01:43] Rebel Squadron radio reporting in. Sorry, that's a joke for the people who listen to the Rebel Squadron radio episodes on Supergasm and Patreon. But also, I love that this episode started with Clea spinning through the radio channels. Yes. That's cool. Yes. Yes. Yes. Well, welcome listeners to Lorehounds coverage of Season 2 of Andor. We have a Squadron system going on, just in case this is your first episode, where each

[00:02:13] week we're managing to cover all three episodes by dividing and conquering. And so we had episode four this week was covered by Django Squadron, led by John with Jean this week. Today, we're doing episode five of the second season, I Have Friends Everywhere. That's Echo Squadron piloted by me, Alicia, and my co-pilot for this week is the same as last week, Ian from Captain's Pod. Welcome. Hello. I'm here and I have been bugged. Yes. I think you have.

[00:02:42] I think there's been interference with your technology today, for sure. There really has. Yeah, the Empire does not want me to talk about this. And the next episode will be episode six from Delta Squadron, which is David with Marilyn this week. Marilyn, who was in Django Squadron last week. And also there's lots of little extras coming for subscribers and season pass holders from that Rebel Squadron radio thing that I was just referencing to Holocron, Lorecast, to deep

[00:03:11] dives into key technology and rebel strategy. Stick around until the end for more information about that. And our general spoiler policy for this is that we are considering all spoilers on the table except not for season six. We won't. I think we both watched season six. Oh, sorry. Episode six. I wish there was going to be a season six. Truly. That's even longer than the original plan. Yeah, exactly. That would be really like, sorry, guys. It's going so well. You need to do more.

[00:03:40] I actually haven't had a chance to watch episode six. Okay. So I can go in completely pure and all spoiler blame can be placed on your shoulders. Well, you can keep me honest and then you're free to speculate. So that's good. Brilliant. Brilliant. But otherwise, yeah, we will be talking spoilers for everything else in the Star Wars universe, if it's relevant. Ian, so okay, we last spoke about episode two. Yes.

[00:04:08] Now we have seen three and four, and now we're focusing on episode five. But what are your thoughts overall, especially about this episode, but also anything about the last two? Yeah, we kind of had the in-betweeny episode and it felt very, very in-betweeny. And then three comes along with just a punch and a wallop. And perhaps what's going to be the most memed part of all of Andor, which is our lovely Mon Mothma

[00:04:37] just dancing her way through her troubles. La la la la la. Nothing matters. I'm just going to dance. Which was just a beautiful juxtaposition. Did you see the one hour loop? Yeah. I haven't watched it yet, but I've seen that they've immediately published that. That it exists. Yeah. They've got their thumb on the pulse for that one. But yeah, now that we're five episodes in, one of the things I adore about this season

[00:05:01] is how strong and cogent the juxtaposition- I'm using all the fancy words today- of different themes throughout each episode. So there is like the lightheartedness of Mon drinking her cares away and dancing to avoid the evil that she knows is happening. Just juxtapose to how that triplet finished in such a serious fashion and then dive straight back into one year later.

[00:05:31] The one year later time jump thing is hitting me much better than I ever anticipated it would. There is, they're really using that as an opportunity to zero in on a really important sequence of time and then jump ahead to the next most important thing with the understanding that evolution has happened during that time. Right.

[00:05:53] And I don't feel like I've missed anything, but I can feel in my bones the one year time jump, especially like when we go into episode five now and how tired everyone is. Everyone like, especially like Luthun is tired. Mon is tired. Everyone like this is really coming to a crux now. Like things are getting really serious. Yeah.

[00:06:20] I think the one year later thing, it works also, especially well with the, just the fact that this is a sandbox that they're going to keep going back and playing in. And actually this is set during like one of the busiest times during the Star Wars timeline, because you know, we are between the prequels and the originals movie just butting up against the original movie. So there's just been so much, you know, we have the rebels show literally covers the same amount of time.

[00:06:48] We have all kinds of books in this timeline, all kinds of expectations set by what comes before and after. So it's, it's like very, it's like the core of the galaxy. It's very difficult to navigate because it's so crowded. So by leaving these one year time jumps that actually helps in that regard. And it's also things like, I know that in Canon Mon Mothma and Leia met this year, but that just happened off camera. That's fine. They don't need to mention it.

[00:07:18] If they don't mention her next week, I'll be upset. But she's got to come in at some point, but you're right. It's, it is such a crowded space because I mean, A New Hope is where it all, it all starts literally. So why wouldn't you want to explore the build up to that? Because we are joining mid story. Um, deliberately so for being episode four, of course. So it's, it's probably the area. There's two areas of Star Wars.

[00:07:46] I really, really, really want to explore and it is the, the build up to A New Hope. So I love that we're getting that. And it's always been like, Hey, what happens after episode six when everything is good? Um, so yeah, they're the two areas that kind of tweak me the most. Hmm. My favorite is definitely all the ancient stuff, which I love. I love though, how they are like, I love that they've been fleshing out the high Republic, which is a new Canon thing, you know, that came up in the past, but it makes sense that

[00:08:13] why do the prequels look better than later stuff? Yeah. Because, uh, there used to be a high Republic and then it was in decline. Yeah. Um, so I, I love that, but I love how, and I love the old Republic because there's still so much open space. There are so many interesting stories there from legends and we don't know. I think a lot of it is coming over to Canon and we see even shows like and or feeding into

[00:08:39] that with things like the last, uh, the last Holocron was about the Rakuten invaders, which is a thing from yeah. Old Republic or Dawn of the Jedi era. So it's just, I love these, those wide open spaces, but I love that they use a show like this too. I know Tony Gilroy, this is not his first and foremost interest, but the, the lore hounds on their show are making sure that it ties into the wider universe in interesting ways. Yeah.

[00:09:06] I mean, it's, it's a daunting prospect that you can be too precious about not precious enough. It is such a fine, um, such a fine balance to take, which is why I really liked the acolyte because it took place so long ago. And I've always wanted a show where you're at the height of the Jedi at their power as well. And the galactic police force, galactic peacekeepers, whatever you want to call them. Um, and I feel like they had a lot more freedom to play around a little bit with, with, with

[00:09:35] that area, but we digress quite far. But anyway, yes. So I loved, I love this episode. Yeah. It's, it's lore hound signature. Um, I love, I love this episode. I do have one gripe that I'll talk, uh, I'm not going to dwell on it too much. I'll talk about it a bit later around fix story lighting, right? Uh, the writing of fix a storyline. Uh, it makes me feel that there's not a woman in the writer's room. Hmm.

[00:09:59] I'm so glad you've mentioned that because I not being a woman hit me wrong, but I don't know how right that is like how wrong it hit me, but it does. It, it almost feels a little bit tropey. So yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a little difficult to talk about this week because it were in the middle of her arc, but I did promise that I would give a female perspective going back to the sexual assault last week.

[00:10:25] I will warn before I talk about that and we're not going to go too deep, but just, you know, I have some thoughts. Um, but yeah, overall I loved it. There was no, the funny thing is I realized at the end there was no Mon Mothma in this episode, but, and she's a character who I'm particularly interested in because I'm interested in the Senate. Um, absolutely. But there was so much happening in this episode. I actually didn't miss her until it was over. Yeah. Until you mentioned it, I was about to correct you and say, no, no, no, she was there, but you're right. She's not in it.

[00:10:53] And she's barely in episode four as well. Like she hasn't appeared much so far at all. And yeah, that's a good point. I do miss her now that I'm thinking about it, but I also don't have any regrets. Like they have, they are sprinting. They're doing a lot and it's, it's really keeping me engaged. Did you have a favorite plot line in this episode? Man, I, oh, everything.

[00:11:19] No, so I, the, the, the thing that I ended up writing the most about in my notes, which is a good indicator of what's activated my brain is it's, it's, it's Cassian now being on Gorman, but specifically how that ties to Cyril and the fact that they are just a one person, one degree of separation removed from each other. And I, I love that so much. And I love that it hasn't been, I haven't seen episode six yet.

[00:11:49] I love that. It hasn't been revealed yet, whether they're going to make the connection that the other is there. So you have Cyril on his side doing his thing and Cassian on, on the rebel side and just separated by Ryland's just the one person. I, I love that. And I love how they're dancing around each other. Like that just activates my espionage brain and counter espionage brain so much. It's, it's, it's a beautiful balance that they're treading along. Yeah.

[00:12:17] When, when Cassian was being sent to Gorman, I was like, Oh my God, Cyril's there. And then Cyril, like they were like passing two ships in the night, literally. Exactly. It's, it's beautiful. Um, I probably a good time to mention this. I love the, the thing that stands out for me in this episode and it covers all of the storylines is the theme of how committed are you going to be?

[00:12:43] And we see it in each storyline Cassian, um, when Ryland's is it Ryland's am I saying his name right? Yeah. I say Ryland. Yeah. Um, he says to, he says to Cassian, um, I guess you're not much a revolutionary because Cassian isn't ready to go full martyr yet. He, he wants a plan that doesn't expose him, that doesn't get him killed. Whereas the Gormans are reaping towards whatever it takes.

[00:13:10] And you see a similar thing with Saw and, um, my, no, I want to call him Milo, but it's not Milo. Wilman. Sorry. Saw and Wilman. So how far, sorry, how far are you going to go? Like taking the poison and Luthun now that his bug has been exposed. Now you're in trouble, Luthun. How far are you going to go? Like every single storyline has this, we're at a crunch time. People, how committed to the rebellion?

[00:13:38] Are you, what is the cost going to be? And everyone is at that turning point, even Bix's as well. And that's just chef's kiss, beautiful storytelling and plotting that man. It just gives me tingles. Yeah. Yeah. I, I have to confess that I am in love with the planet of Gorman. I it's, we've got spiders. I don't know. I really like spiders are cool.

[00:14:03] Um, we've got textiles, which, you know, I have a background in, uh, textiles and marketing for fashion. Um, a pleasantly cool climate, like sign me up for the Gorman front. Yes. It's beautiful. It's really speaking to you. Like that's ticking. That was made for you, wasn't it? Yeah, exactly. What, what, um, rebel faction would you join at this point? Honestly, now that you've mentioned the temperature, I think it is the Gorman front.

[00:14:32] I mean, I feel like they're doomed, but everywhere else is either really, really snowy, really, really, really sandy or swamp. And this is, this is definitely, if I'm thinking temperate, this is the one that I like the most. Yeah. Well, that's another reason why I like Alderaan also with like, they're, they're also the more the, these are the planets of people who sit and look at things. Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's a certain time I don't want to be an Alderaan boat, to be honest. Right? No, exactly. Well, yeah. I mean, this isn't the best time to be on Gorman either.

[00:15:01] No, that's fair. That's fair. But I definitely got like the, and this is, it's so, so clever in the, in the set design, the, um, the planet design, you have this Venetian Parisian vibe to the whole place that is definitely different to not Shangri-La. Chandrilla. Chandrilla.

[00:15:37] Chandrilla. And I think an element that really helps with that is the language as well. There is a distinctly French twinge to, um, the Gorman language as we've heard it. Um, I'm, I do not speak much French other than bonjour and cliche. Um, but I, I wondered if, if you picked up on like how French it was as well. Yes. Uh, yeah.

[00:16:02] So John talks about this a bit in the episode four breakdown, but just to quote the production notes for this two versions were written of the Gorman language, uh, Gorel or high gore and Dixian or low gore named after graphic designers, El McKee and Lauren Dix. Um, so yeah, I noticed like, cause the first thing I clocked was we heard this, the spies speaking in the beginning of the first episode and I'm like, Oh, that sounds very Germanic actually. And then they go to the meeting. I'm like, Oh no, that's very French. Yes. Exactly.

[00:16:32] And the whole cast, all the, all the Gorman characters are played by French actors. Uh, so they, they talked about it, you know, so John, uh, read something out that I wrote about how that kind of mirrors English. And then I saw, I saw also, they talked about it on the behind the scenes thing about how actually also the Italian Alps were taken into account. And I was like, yeah, that makes sense because also Milan with the fabrics thing. Yeah.

[00:16:59] So I think this is space Switzerland I've decided with the French and the German blend of language. I love it. Oh, I don't think they're going to be staying neutral. I have to be honest though, because it sounds like so Franco German, which is the basis of like the, my top three languages are English, Dutch and French. So I almost like tune out, like forget to read the subtitles because it sounds so familiar. But then I realized, Oh wait, I don't actually know what they're saying.

[00:17:29] These are nonsense. I mean, they're not nonsense words. I know it's a con line. No, but it is. It's nonsense to our brain. Yeah. It's so, but that's a sign. I feel like just on an instinctual level that they're doing a really good job with it. Like to trick your brain into thinking, yep, that makes sense is that's a neat trick. That's a lot of care. Yeah, exactly. Uh, and I think it's really interesting, you know, the contrast with Chandrila that you were talking about that on Chandrila, they have their own language, but it's, they only

[00:17:58] speak it in ceremonies and on Gorman, they speak it unless they're speaking to a foreign foreigner, they're speaking their own language, which is also very French. Oh yeah. I mean, and it makes sense if you're in a rebellion as well, because there's a good chance the, your Imperial overlords may not speak it. So it is very much the language of the resistance. And of course it can't help, but remind you of the French resistance in World War two, like

[00:18:23] the, that, that parallel, I felt like I was in a world war two TV show looking at the, the French underground and the French resistance. Um, so that again, it's just, they, they know exactly what they're doing with this. It's so clever. Yeah. And the berets, there were literal berets. Literal berets. Okay. That might be too far. I didn't see any baguettes, so that's all right. All right. I like the berets. Um, okay. So let's get into the breakdown of the episode itself. Uh, season one, episode five.

[00:18:53] I have friends everywhere. This was directed. This whole block was directed by Ariel Kleinman again, same as the last block. And the writer of this block was Bo Williman, who he was an EP by the way in seven season two, but most personally, most pertently. Yeah. Anyway, most importantly for this, he wrote the prison arc from season one of it. Oh, okay. That's yeah. That, that makes me happy. Right. Right.

[00:19:21] And so to set the timeline, we are now in three BBY. So three years before the events of the original film, uh, by their dating system, that would be year 32 of the great resynchronization. But I don't think Tony Gilroy cares about that. So I should stop. Um, and the title I have friends everywhere is part of this call and response that we, uh, here exchange later in this episode. We're going to be talking about this again, plot arc by plot arc.

[00:19:51] So somewhat out of order from the episode itself, starting with Cyril, the spy on Gorman. Cyril continues to worm into the good graces of the Gorman front rebel faction while feeding that information back to his not actually ex dead Romero, hoping to get the attention of her boss, major part of gas. When a Lieutenant's grimace from the ISB marches into his office to detain his employees and

[00:20:17] sweep the office for bugs, Cyril makes a show of his protestations, knowing that one of the Gorman front operatives is in the room. The bug in Cyril's office is detected, but Cyril's contacts in the Gorman front, Ryland's Dylan and Enza managed to disconnect the tap before the source can be traced. So they think because thanks to Cyril, the empire of course already knows when they surprise Cyril outside of his apartment building later, he tells them he was detained two hours and suspects

[00:20:45] the empire may have been planting a bug of their own. During one of his weekly calls with his mother, he tells her he will be traveling home soon for a visit as impending travel restrictions around Gorman might soon make it difficult to do so. Before he leaves though, he copies the transport delivery schedules that Ryland's requested, further buying their trust when the information checks out. Mm hmm.

[00:21:11] So yeah, that was a, I mean, we didn't talk about this cause we didn't talk about episode one, but just seeing the way they played it the first episode when at first it looks like maybe Cyril and Deirdre really have broken up. Maybe, you know, he took the job instead of her. And then ultimately the end of that episode, you see like, Oh no, of course this is all part of the plan. Yeah. That didn't really for a second believe that they had broken up and gone their separate

[00:21:41] ways, mainly because I, and or has done a great job of laying seeds and setting stuff up. And they're like the big move that Deirdre made, um, which was convincing Cyril's, um, mother to back off because Cyril and being very protective of Cyril. Mm hmm. That felt like an odd move to then jump to one year later when they split up. So I, if it was supposed to trick me or trigger us, I don't think it worked, but it's, it didn't,

[00:22:11] I wasn't really like kind of banking on that. I love the Cyril is in his happy place. And Deirdre even says that in a dead dresser says that in this episode, it's nice to see you happy. He is. Do you think she meant that? Ah, I was trying to process it cause it was such a loaded. I mean, everything Deirdre says is loaded. There is, there is so much subtext to everything she says.

[00:22:38] I, I feel like it's kind of like, she's looking at a, an eight year old that has just completed a video game and she's like, I'm happy that you're happy. Right. You have no idea how hard the next level is. Like the next you've completed that, but the next thing you're about to do is even harder. And it's kind of like, she, she sees the big picture constantly and that can make her really cautious. Cyril very much sees the thing that's in front of him and the puzzle that he's just solved.

[00:23:07] And I feel like he gets so engrossed in that, that he then doesn't see the big picture of the terrible things that are to come. Yeah. Like Kyle Sola is just acting that to perfection because it's all in his reactions and the smile that he can't contain. I think he might be giving the best performance in the season for me. He is, there is so much nuance to what, um, to the line that Cyril is, is bouncing back and forth between. Yeah.

[00:23:36] I'm a super Cyril supporter. So, uh, I am behind everything that you just said. Um, do you think though, do you think Deidre tells him everything? No, no, not, I don't think Deidre tells herself everything. I think that's fair. Yeah. I think she is the queen of compartmentalizing. Um, yeah. And she's so, she's so hard to read that it's actually, she's even hard to read as a viewer, as a member of the audience as well. Mm-hmm.

[00:24:05] I don't know that, that I really can pin down exactly where she's at or what's going on or even how much she likes Cyril and how much she even values him as a partner rather than a chess piece that she's moving around on Gorman. Yeah. I have to say, so Denise Gow, who plays Deidre, she, when you see her in an interview, she's

[00:24:31] like a very vibrant, you know, forward, playful person. So it is a wildly different character that she plays. And I'm so impressed by it because what you're saying, yeah, that you can't read her. I think it's exactly connected to the thing you said just before that is that she can't even read herself. Like she's like, I don't know. How do I feel about this guy? I don't know. Yeah. Does it matter? Like, yeah, exactly. It doesn't matter. Yeah.

[00:24:56] I would feel like if there was a definite route to their relationship, making her Empress of the Empire, she might pursue it. But yeah, she is, I think it's deliberate. I think there are certain characters you're supposed to be able to read and there are certain characters that they don't want you to be able to read. And she is, she is right there as being a mystery wrapped in an enigma. Yeah. I still don't think she wants to be like Empress.

[00:25:23] I think she wants to have satisfaction of, I don't know. Maybe she wants to be like the best super spy. Yeah. She's like, I am queen spy. It's so hard, isn't it? Because it's hard to like strip ego away from wanting to succeed. So her doggedness at wanting to see this through, it's so hard to not see that as ego.

[00:25:47] Because you can want to have the job done, but how do you not feel a bit crap when it wasn't your work that brought it over the line? Right. Right. And that may be something she's wrestling with. Definitely. Definitely. Um, so on in the, uh, Gorman part of the story, we had a Lieutenant girl, Grimish, Grimish, Grimish show up. Um, and he looks so familiar to me. I had to look him up. So his name's Kurt Igiawan.

[00:26:16] And he is, uh, he's a maester in house of the dragon. And then I realized he's also in a real pain, which is the subject of our, uh, 11 Z's movie club movie for subscribers this month. Oh, amazing. A worthy, incredibly worthy movie. That's I had exactly the same thought. I was like, you look familiar. Why do I keep seeing you? Yeah. Yeah. I've most recently seen him in a real pain and he's, he's so good in that movie.

[00:26:43] He like, he sleepily steals the movie from some already great performances. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, I looked at his resume and actually I've seen him in a bunch of other stuff. He's just one of those guys who's in everything, but those two performances recently stood out to me. So, uh, what did you, what do you think about the Gorman front getting excited about finding out that, uh, Cyril was fired by the ISB from Morlana one?

[00:27:11] It's I can't help, but look at the Gorman front and the rebels that we saw in our no, the, the forest planet place that begins with a Y. Um, the, before Yavin, I have to think about the years. I'm like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I was trying to get there.

[00:27:35] They are playing at revolution and it, that sounds condescending and it sounds patronizing, but they are so early on that they don't know what the heck they're doing. And this is such a big win for them because they're almost like big pats on the back. Look what we got. We got an Imperial spy and we're going to manipulate him because he has this background, not realizing

[00:28:00] that it's just as easy for that information to be manipulated to them. And Cassian tries to bring that in and explain the, they could be lying to you just as much as you're playing them. And I just, I, I love that so much because it just has this, oh, you're so doomed to it. There's not this false hope. There's not this, maybe they can make it because we know at this point, there's a lot of not

[00:28:30] making it that happens before there's any good news. So yeah, I think they're, they're playing this really, really well where the Gorman front is energized and is fighting the good fight, but just doesn't have a clue that they're not playing with the same toys or level of intelligence that the empire is playing them with at the minute. It's tragic. No, I agree. I agree. I agree.

[00:28:55] But I do, you know, when I went back and rewatched season one of Andor before this new season came out, one of the things that I clocked was the way in which Cyril was dismissed by the ISB from his post on Morlano one and how they really belittled him. And I mean, I'll defend the honor of my baby Cyril, but it is, I do think that they might not

[00:29:20] be completely wrong about this planting a seed of doubt in him that he doesn't maybe even know about yet. Yes, absolutely. One of the, an arc that I would love to see, cause it would fit Cyril, it would fit my worldview of Cyril really, really well. Not the, that's the definitive word on the matter, of course. But if he's doing this double agent thing where he's getting in with the rebels, it would

[00:29:46] be so perfect if he flips and switches sides because he's so fixated on the puzzle in front of him in my mind that what if he suddenly sees the puzzle is helping the rebels and joining their cause. Like he is, he, for a determined, intelligent man, he is malleable. And I feel like his, his morals could shift to where he's actually, oh no, I'm on the rebels. Cause that's who I'm spending time with. Yeah.

[00:30:14] Um, do you think that he feels sympathy at this point for the gore? No, not even a little bit. No, no, not even a little bit. And that, that was cemented for me when he's doing, he's having the, um, the briefing with, uh, uh, Partagaz. Um, and the joy, he is like speaking over Deirdre. Uh, he is like explaining exactly how deep he is, what has happened.

[00:30:40] This is all to get the carrot, like any emotion that he's showing to get inside. He's proud that he's embedded himself. Um, because at the minute, the, the, the carrot that's being waved in front of him is from Deirdre and the empire. Mm. Yeah. I don't think so. I, I, I, I agree there. I, I do. I feel like there were flickers of it though, when he was at the meeting and you know, and, um, I think that we've seen a bunch of slights.

[00:31:08] I think we can all agree that Cyril is a people pleaser. He wants to be patted on the head and told that he's a good boy. And that's why it was the best day of his life. We'll get to that in a minute. Um, but I, I think this eagerness to prove himself is going to like the Gorman front is going to be nicer to him than his mother is. The Gorman front's going to be nicer to him than his girlfriend is, uh, who, okay. Here's a question about Deirdre.

[00:31:38] Do you think she's capable of love? Do you think she experiences empathy? Oh man, that's, that's tricky. Um, because we're drifting into like psychopath, sociopath territory where those emotions are difficult. Um, capable, man, that's so hard.

[00:32:02] I, my instinct is everyone is capable, but I know that's naive because there is a very real positive possibility that either through nurture or nature, that part of her brain does not exist. And everything about Cyril is means to an end. So I'm going to straddle the fence on that one. My, my heart says yes. My, my brain says no. Um, I, I do think she might have a strange affection for him more than she expected.

[00:32:32] And this is maybe why she like makes weird faces when he's around. Um, he's her labrador. Yeah. Yeah. She wants to pat him on the head. Exactly. Or whatever it is they do with the lights out. Um, yeah. Could you explain exactly what happened in that scene? I got completely lost. I know the lights went out, but what next? I, I think that they just sat silently and meditated. Oh my God. That would be incredible. I hope that's true.

[00:33:01] No, I hope, I hope that they both got some, even Imperials deserve love. They sure do with the clothes on though, like completely still clothed. Yeah. That's what I imagine. No, but I just think that's, you know, the, the empire, uh, Deidre, his mother, they're all belittling Cyril all the time. So I can see if the Gorman front is pumping up his ego and is, you know, making him feel good.

[00:33:27] Um, making him feel like he belongs in a way where he's not constantly seeking approval that might sway him. Yeah. I, I, what you've just mentioned about Deidre not being capable of love has tweaked my brain. I don't think Cyril is capable of empathy. You don't think so? I think he's so self-serving and you're right. If the Gorman front is nicer to him, then he'd switch sides, but it won't be because he's

[00:33:54] sympathetic to their cause or cares about their purpose. I think you're right. It will be because these people are nice to me and I, Cyril have a purpose with these people again, purpose with the puzzle, regardless of what the puzzle is, I'm doing it and I'm being patted on the back for it. That's where I think the switch could happen. But he'll tell himself it's for the moral reasons. A hundred percent. I can absolutely hear him saying, I believe in this, but then behind his eyes, it's not, it's, I believe in the carrot that I'm being fed. Yeah.

[00:34:24] Um, I also think it's interesting that Rylands suggests to Cyril that the emperor maybe doesn't know what the ISB is doing in his name. They're running a shadow government. Like, okay. I mean, that was a clever move. Like that is like, if you're going to manipulate someone like, no, you're not being a traitor. You're actually working for the emperor by helping us. Like that's a really clever bit of psychology.

[00:34:49] Yeah, no, I mean, I think that that's, that's a brilliant piece of propaganda to let that out to anything that goes wrong. It's not the emperor doesn't know. Um, but it is also, Angua Lupin said on our discord, interestingly, that was the original concept for the emperor. When a new hope was written. The idea was that the emperor was merely a figurehead and the real power in the empire was the various politicians and bureaucrats who ran the machinery of the empire.

[00:35:15] That obviously got jettisoned as soon as Lucas decided to go heavy on the Jedi Sith storyline, but you can still see vestiges of it in, for example, the fact that Tarkin is always off doing whatever the F he pleases in the outer rim with apparently no oversight whatsoever. Yeah. There's definitely both things can be true. Even you can have an evil emperor and still have evil people doing even eviler things that the emperor doesn't know about.

[00:35:42] I kind of, I like, I like the idea of the benevolent figurehead more because it's more insidious, but, and it's kind of like if, um, was it, uh, Chancellor? Oh, not Valerian, but the guy that gets ousted in episode one. Oh, Valorum? Valorum. Valorum. Valorum. I was right. I was trying to go Valerian. Chancellor Valorum was kind of heading towards that.

[00:36:12] Like he would have been the figurehead emperor that, um, would have pretty much been clueless had, um, uh, Palpatine not ousted him. Yeah. That's an interesting parallel. And in some ways, I mean, for, it depends. Yeah. Is the leader a puppet or is the leader, the puppet master? They switched from one to the other. So just, yeah. Where's the power lie? Yeah.

[00:36:37] But Cyril knows both sides are listening in on his conversations and, uh, he has another run in with Sam is the one in the square who keeps giving Cyril spiders or sorry, sorry. Gorlectopods. Yeah. They're not spiders. Come on. I love. Clearly different creatures. I love their interactions though. Cyril's like, I don't want another fricking spider. He's like, yes, you do. Yeah, you do. You want this one. And I love the, it's one of the opening shots in episode four is the camera panning

[00:37:07] around the spiders that he already has in, in his apartment. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. All right. We're going to continue with Cyril's story on Coruscant after a quick break. Be right back.

[00:37:42] Back on Coruscant, Cyril drops by to visit Deidre at the home they used to share where she says they have one hour before he has to leave. So he should turn off the lights later. The pair, later the pair meet with Partagaz to brief him on what Cyril has learned from the Gorman front. Cyril and Deidre insist that the rebels trust him and Cyril suggests he further ingratiate himself to them by continuing to feed them accurate information. Deidre agrees that they shouldn't crack down too hard on them either.

[00:38:11] For now, the Empire wants this particular cell of rebels to feel like it's winning. Partagaz praises Cyril's effort, leading Cyril to declare this the greatest day of his life. Even a visit to his mother can't get him down. That's amazing. Would it ruin everything if I said this was the best day of my life? Oh! That self-awareness was really fun and Deidre's just like, oh man, I don't have the heart to tell him what I'm really thinking.

[00:38:40] It's like her face fell for a minute and she's like, I'm just happy to see you happy. Yeah. Pat, pat, pat, pat. Yeah, exactly. I do love that whole, the Empire just allowing all of this to happen because it suits them. It's so tragic because any success that the rebels have on Gorman now is largely because the Empire let it happen.

[00:39:09] And they want this win so that it draws Axis out, so that it draws the bigger players out. Because they know the Gorman front is new. Like there hasn't been a reason to have a front on Gorman because they've just been left alone. So by definition, they must be new. But they even know that it's a prize. Like they know that the rebels turning Gorman would be a prize for them that they can't resist. Like it is beautifully plotted. Obviously, there are humans in the real world plotting this.

[00:39:38] It's not just the Empire, but it is a beautifully plotted story that's just, you know, it's heading for tragedy. Yeah. Now it's so tragic too because we know from the first episode meeting that we're privy to that basically their endgame is they want to destroy the planet because they've decided that to the Empire, the minerals inside the planet under the surface of the planet are more valuable than anything else,

[00:40:06] than the people, than the fabrics, the spiders, the culture. So it doesn't matter what they do. Like they don't even understand how unfair the game is, like how stacked against them it is. It doesn't, they are doomed and they're just trying to, the Empire just wants an excuse to publicly crack down on them so that they don't, they look less like the bad guys. Yeah, this military base isn't the endgame at all.

[00:40:36] Like it's the first little beachhead that, well, if we do this, it's going to anger them enough that, yeah, you're right. Now we have a reason to shut them down and take over. And the more we villainize and criminalize them, like there's a line from Mon Mothma in episode four that was great, which is, are we arresting criminals or creating criminals? Exactly. And like, she's just, she's in on it.

[00:41:01] She knows that they're creating, they're fluffing up the crime figures on the planets where they want to have an imperial presence. Like, yeah, there's an increase of 30% crime. We need to send more soldiers there. It's yeah, it's so insidious. And send the criminals to these prisons where they're unknowingly constructing parts for the Death Star. They've got their work camps. Yeah. It's a very efficient system. You've got to give it to them.

[00:41:28] I love this exchange with Partagaz and the lovely imperial couple that love bugs. Partagaz, or no, sorry, Cyril said their experience were very eager. Yes. And yeah, how often those attributes align and Dedra and Partagaz exchange a look and it's like, yeah, they're talking about Cyril right now, right in front of his face. Oh, Cyril. Oh, buddy. It's you never want to see the Labrador put down, but sometimes it's just going to happen.

[00:41:58] Yeah. All right. Two questions for you about Cyril. Do you think he was slightly turned on that Dedra had him followed? And do you think Edie's name for the spider, that she named the spider Cyril after him? Is that fair? Oh my gosh. There is, I think calling the spider Cyril might be giving Cyril too much credit and not enough credit to the spider. Oh. Which I know is going to break your heart.

[00:42:26] I, yeah, Cyril relished in that. There isn't, oh, sorry. Being Dedra having somebody follow him. Yeah. He relished in that because that means he's important. That means that maybe he's a threat to this woman that he holds in such high esteem. Whereas she, she says herself like there's another place that they're monitoring and he's like, is that necessary? And she says, well, no, but it would be silly for one tiny little thing to ruin our plan.

[00:42:54] So it's not that he really is much of a risk, but she is covering every single base that she possibly can, regardless of how unlikely it is to go wrong. But yeah, from Cyril's point of view, he's going to absolutely love that. I do worry now that Cyril is going to seem to flip next week and then in the final week. Disappoint me. Disappoint me deeply. I feel like he's going to pull a penguin. Yeah, I think so. I feel like he's destined for that.

[00:43:23] I don't think he has anything close to the ending that our brains are manufacturing for him. There was something I wanted to mention quick before we went, um, we dove into it earlier. It was when he was with the, uh, the Gorman front. And the only slight bit of empathy that I saw from him was when he's talking to Ryland's daughter, Enza, and not really talking, but eyeballing her and just like giving her a really good look up and down. Yeah.

[00:43:51] That felt like, um, an attraction thing. And if she gives him the right amount of attention, I think suddenly she becomes the focus of his affection rather than Deirdre. And I just like, that was a really subtle, well, not subtle, but it was a really unspoken way to show that I can see him flipping if the right people give him attention. Yeah.

[00:44:17] And that's why Deirdre may need to keep giving him those one hours in the dark to keep him on side. But I, I mean, I completely agree. And I was thinking also about Enza, but, um, I think the difference is Deirdre will give him an hour in the dark. Enza will give him an entire night, which in the end does he end up craving more that actual validation or that seeking validation that he's used to?

[00:45:13] And he kept typing Boreen Boreen. Oh no, that's amazing. I mean, as far as spy names go, this is a terrible spy name. This is, this is the coolest name you could think of. He's going to stand out a mile away. Varian Sky. Might as well call him James Bond. Well, for his reconnaissance mission to Gorman, Cassian is giving the identity of well-to-do up and coming fashion designer, Varian Sky. And, um, okay.

[00:45:39] So first, before we talk about his briefing, he visits this Nicky Bond travel agency, which seems to be a place where you go to get like a cover to go on a mission somewhere. Yeah. Spy Expedia. Spy Expedia. I love the seventies, eighties vibes because of course we're going toward the original trilogy. So, you know, it's got to match up production design wise. Um, and this is where we get the title of the episode.

[00:46:06] They have this exchange where she's Nicky says visiting friends. And he says, why do you ask? She says, I'm curious by nature. And he says, I have friends everywhere. And then she says, okay, bond. Bond is my new favorite glup shadow. Do you have, do you have any favorite glup shadows in and or elsewhere? This might be the first one that I've seen. I don't know that. Where else would I have seen one? Oh no. No, I mean a glup shadow is any care, small character who you just like, suddenly you're

[00:46:36] like, I need to know this entire character story. Oh, amazing. Um, that was my ignorant brain, not knowing what that was. That's great. I'm going to use that. Um, yeah, no, I want to know. I I'm completely with you. I immediately wanted to know what their relationship was. They both look like they just woken up from an incredible night of passion. Yeah. Yeah. An hour in the dark. I want to know what the beer belly is about. I yeah. His little grunt completely agree. Everything needs to be explored about this character.

[00:47:06] Well, for in Star Wars, like everyone has their different obsessions in the lore. Like some people are very into the ships. That's not an area where I'm an expert. I get very into the species in the culture. So I went down a rabbit hole. I'm like, what kind of alien is my new favorite glup shadow? Yes. So I'm throwing some out there and this is for the Star Wars nerds. I want to hear what other people think it might be.

[00:47:30] One was something only I think only in legends called a Cern Pedalian who they have the the white skin, the white hair and red eyes, but they wear like these stripy robes. And so I was wondering, he has his ridging on his chest. Could that be linked to that? Because they made sure that he was in a vest so that we could see the body makeup they did. That's yeah, that's usually deliberate. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:47:57] Um, I was wondering if he could be um barren, which is they look a lot like he does. The difference is that um barrens have white eyes where he seemed to have reddish eyes. But one character who's probably an um barren. Did you watch skeleton crew? I haven't. No, okay. Okay. I haven't done the rest. Okay. Well in the back half, there's, um, there's a bounty hunter called pocket who seems to be an um barren.

[00:48:21] But anyway, uh, I was wondering if he was a pallid duven, which is like, there's a bounty hunter called Aura Singh, who some people might know about, but they, the difference with, um, pallid duvens is that pallid duvens is they have abnormally long fingers. And I looked at his hands and I didn't say that. Uh, I love this. This is amazing. This is a little CSI alien. Two more I'm throwing out there.

[00:48:46] Uh, there's the Arcanians, which they are, especially high Republic fans will know them, but they have solid white eyes. I don't think he's an Arcanian. And then the last candidate is Ratataki. And Ratatak is the planet that Asajj Ventress grew up on when she, she was taken from Dathomir and ended up in the harsh fighting pits of Ratatak. Uh, but the, the Ratatakis, I don't think they have hair and they have face markings and he does not.

[00:49:14] So I'm going certain, uh, certain Pedalian or um barren, but I want to hear from other species nerds. That is amazing. I could start throwing out some Star Trek aliens, but I don't think that's going to be helpful. Well, thank you for coming to my Ted talk. I enjoyed every minute of it.

[00:49:32] Um, so he gets his briefing next from Sam Witwer, who is a lot of people know him as Starkiller from legends, but also he's just a really prolific voice actor. Yeah, for real. And best known as Maul, but you can see his name in like every credits for Star Wars. He's just always doing it. But so what does Sam Witwer tell Cassian? Oh, your name is Varian Sky. You were born in Tahini and moved to Coruscant with your brother when you were 12.

[00:50:01] Your brother Patrio soon returned home, but you'd found an apprenticeship in a dressmaking studio and decided to stay. After your apprenticeship, you moved to the fashion district where you found work as an assistant to a designer. This is your first trip to Gorman. As a fashion designer, it's a rite of passage. You've lived in the same place for the last five years. 51457 level 4888 East Narcine Coruscant. 51457 level 4888 East Narcine Coruscant.

[00:50:31] It's a small unit, but it's above your design studio where you do most of your work. That's a hell of a lot of information to take in on a single lesson. I was so stressed. I was like, the fact that he repeated part of it stressed me out even more. Cause I'm like, oh great. That's the bit that he needs to remember. So I am like inhabiting and or his like his stress level of having to get, cause there's a lot of writing on remembering all of that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:57] And also I do wonder if they got it completely right because they said, I think they said tahini or that's what the subtitle said. And there is no mention of a sesame pasta planet, a sesame paste planet. There is no. But in the first episode of and or in the first season, um, when Cassian went to that brothel and he was looking for a sister. So he was asking about, you know, is there anyone from Canary? Um, the woman says like, no, but we have someone from Tahina.

[00:51:27] So who would have those big dark eyes you're looking for? So I'm wondering that must've been maybe a little subtitle error, but to him, to him either way, apparently people from Canary and Tahina look similar, but I guess it's a less conspicuous planet to come from. Oh, that's so interesting. That's really interesting. Good memory on that. Um, yeah, I just rewatched it recently. So. Oh, you cheater.

[00:51:54] Um, I don't know by the way, how much you know about Coruscant, the city planets, that's the capital of this Republic or this empire. But basically it is thousands of levels deep where they just started. They had a planet and that's level zero and they just started building on top of it over the centuries and millennia so that now it is 5,217 levels tall. That's wild.

[00:52:22] Most of what I know about Coruscant is from episode one. So I know that it's one entire big city center of the Republic. Um, and now the empire. Yeah. Yeah. It's so, it's such an impressive planet. And it's, um, I always know I'm on Coruscant whenever they, um, whenever we're there and whenever we're like doing the establishing shots, it's a very familiar planet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It is. It does feel like home to star Wars fans, right? Yeah.

[00:52:51] But I, I loved the, um, we got to a very mission impossible vibe, um, with the, the mission briefing and the update and a secret identity. And I was like, is the earpiece going to explode? Is it going to like self delete? This will self-destruct. It's suddenly got very, very inspector gadget. Exactly. It got very James Bond mission impossible. Um, and I, I really love that.

[00:53:16] I love the Cassian has, we had to see this side of Cassian where he's getting to be this flamboyant person and this undercover agent and really flex that he's not just a foot soldier. Like he has, he has some acting chops that will help, um, in this situation. Yeah. Yeah. And it is, this was putting him in a very different place cause he has to play the role of Luthan because so, okay. So Coruscant goes up to 5,217.

[00:53:44] So basically the lower down you are, the worse it is. Level five is the first level that's you can even live on like below that. It's just completely derelict. It's uninhabitable. Okay. So for comparison, Edie's apartment is on level 91. That's quite low. Oh, that's super low. But now Cassian's been assigned an identity of someone on level 4,888. Pretty high up. That's really high up. So it means he's, he's doing quite well.

[00:54:13] And now he has to like do the Luthan thing. He didn't have to put a wig on. No. He didn't have to slick back his hair. Would have loved to see you in it though. So, so then Cassian checks into a hotel. He's in the Palmo city center on Gorman. And he encourages his bellhop, Thila, to speak out about his experience as a child, witnessing the Tarkin massacre on the central square outside. Um, what did Thila say? Ah, Thila said, It was Moff Tarkin.

[00:54:43] People wouldn't clear and he wanted to land. And more of us kept coming. We thought there was safety in numbers. Who would land a cruiser on a crown full of unarmed citizens? I was with my father. He was killed saving me. My wife thinks it's insane. We stay here. That is, we obviously didn't know until this point what the specifics of the tragedy was. That is brutal.

[00:55:05] Like that isn't just like, this isn't quelling an uprising or quelling a mob, or this was just your in my parking spot splat. That's just, I mean, it completely fits with what we know about Moff Tarkin, but it is so brutal. Yeah. I mean, it is wild that Tarkin still just, as, um, as Anguilupan was saying earlier, he's just still out there doing whatever he wants.

[00:55:30] And then the galaxy is keeping him in a high position and still like, no, but I'm sorry, the Empire is keeping him in a high position. It was like, still, no, we're the good guys. It's just, this is why it feels like super naive that Ryland's, his plan is to expose that this is a military base and make it public. That's so naive, like to think that the galaxy is going to care, like, yeah, make it public, but guess who controls the law and guess who controls the, the retribution?

[00:55:59] Like he's still not seeing the full scope of how deep the rabbit hole goes. Like, yeah, expose it, but it's Moff Tarkin literally parked on your people and he's still fine. So what good is exposing the military base going to do? Yeah.

[00:56:14] Yeah. One thing I would love to see more of in this show, they did it a bit in the first episode with the, um, with the girl at the Sinar base who, sorry, the woman at the Sinar base, who was going to join, you know, she joined the rebellion, but she was also like, you know, I actually, it was nice here. It was, I had, I had a decent life and that's something the Mandalorian has done. Well also showing, uh, in their course on plot lines, showing that people benefit from the empire, you know, makes them more likely to keep their heads down.

[00:56:44] I've heard there are regimes that people have globally celebrated falling. And then I've heard the people who live through them being like, you know, I kind of miss some aspects of it. Things were cheap. Things were controlled, you know, it wasn't hurting me. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But okay. So that Tarkin massacre is they're calling it. They call it the Gorman massacre and legends that took place in 18 BBY one year after the empire came into power.

[00:57:13] And, uh, this is going to be the week, the topic of this week's holocron, which will come out for subscribers and season pass holders this Sunday. And that's going to be with John and Aaron from star Wars legends lounge. Um, do note that they recorded this before the start of the season. So before they saw any of and or, but they may discuss some events that won't play out until next week. So, I mean, we know some of them, for example, from Mon Mothma's plot arc in the rebel series.

[00:57:41] So just FYI, but watch out for that on Sunday. All right. So now that Cassian's in town, newly arrived, he heads downstairs to be seen taking a cup of coffee as a tourist would in the coffee shop. He's approached by over eager Gorman front operative Enza daughter of the Gorman front leader Rylands who operates via his local textile atelier.

[00:58:05] Varian quote unquote, and Enza share a very tense conversation full of fake smiles where Enza tries to play hard. And Cassian gives her the wake up call that she's not as slick as the, as she thinks she is. The next day Varian meets with Rylands and Enza in Rylands is fabric shop as, uh, Dylan and Sam look on Rylands tells Varian that the new Imperial building under construction is actually secretly an armory in violation of the Imperial charter.

[00:58:34] Also in violation of the agreement to never build a building that casts a shadow on the target massacre memorial. Rylands tells him that they want to rob a weapons transport to set up their own armory. But Varian isn't sure this crew is thinking this all the way through though. He says he'll take this back to their contact, which we know is Luthen, AKA access. He also presents Rylands with a code crystal he can use to contact access direct. Later, Varian meets with the group to scout the transport routes. The Gorman front wants to attack.

[00:59:04] And the next day Rylands stops by Varian's hotel coffee shop for a chat where Cassian tells him he doesn't think they are ready for this. And Ryland says Cassian doesn't sound very much like a revolutionary. That's oh man, there is so much to unpack there. Like this might be the most scared I've seen.

[00:59:23] Um, Cassian like today and he's been in some scary situations because now this is the second occasion where he's dealing with incompetence that no matter how good your plan is, like if you can't execute it or if you're going in prepared to be a martyr, you're going to find a way to make yourself a martyr. And I really picked up that vibe from him that he's at a, and I hope this gets explored more.

[00:59:47] He's at a, I mean, we know it will, we've, we've seen Rogue One, but he's at this tipping point of am I prepared to be a martyr for this? Whereas he, there he's, I think he's at the point of, there is so much more value in me being alive and being smart, but at what point does putting everything on the line become the greater return on investment? And yeah, he's like, he is worried when he's talking to Enza.

[01:00:14] And this is like the most subtle, but most damning dressing down that I think we've seen in the show. And we've seen a lot of those with Cyril, but he tears her apart. Like everything you're doing from approaching me to the people you have following me, everything you're doing right now is working against us. And like, he's almost like you're playing, you're playing at revolution. You haven't got a clue what you're doing or how dangerous this is. And that's really scary.

[01:00:42] So he's kind of brutal to her, but I think she's only going to grow from that realization that you, you can like be motivated and want change, but you've got to be smart about it as well. Cause the other guys have much bigger guns. Yeah. Yeah. I do think he asks a pertinent question where he says, where do you expect to hide? And on the one hand, at the same time as this is happening, we have the rebels plotline going where there's another rebel cell there who, yeah, they just go back to their hideout.

[01:01:12] But he says, rightfully, you're planning to advertise what you've done because they want to set up an armory. So basically they're saying we stole your weapons and we're right here. And he's like, dumb asses. You have no, it reminds me of the last plot arc on Mina Rao, where the local guy was like, people must know what's going on here. And Brasso is like, Oh honey, Oh honey, you've got it good. You have no idea.

[01:01:36] It is, it was, it was so damning and it shows like the different, like Luthun and Cassian are in the shadows. They're like Luthun in particular, it's like no matter what my identity will be protected. And I will take, I will, I will play the long game in order to protect myself and keep myself hidden. And and or can't help but emulate that. And I think he's like an accidental mentor almost like he's going to go down that path as well to a degree.

[01:02:05] But Ryland was like, he's just like sets him up so well. Cause he's like, ideally what you do is you have this plan, you do your heist and you leave and you run. And guess what? That's really, really hard. What you're doing is you're going to heist. You're going to stay put and you're going to tell him you did it. Like it is insane. Like to him, it's like, this is the dumbest plan. You are going to be dead. And maybe like you're okay with being dead because then the word gets out there.

[01:02:33] But that doesn't mean you've won. So yeah, it's so interesting what he's walked into. Yeah. Yeah. And, and they've already got me so sad about the inevitable demise of Gorman because they just made it so real so quickly in these episodes. It's a planet that I've been aware existed for a long time now because it's in the lore, but.

[01:02:58] Just an also the little insidious details that Tony Gilroy includes about like the symptoms of when things are really going wrong. She talks about declining tourism is a worrying factor. Yeah. Of course that's costing the local economy money, obviously, but also it's just a symptom of why are people staying away? Well, because they're afraid because they're being prejudiced because. Yeah. Tides are turning against Gorman. Yeah.

[01:03:24] They're being discouraged from visiting because of all the criminals that they're being told are there. Right. Right. And this is a, this is a really central planet. Obviously you can tell this is a planet that has wealth. You can see by the way that it's the buildings and the way people dress and everything. Um, we find out that Ryland's is Twillery has been in the family 19 generations, which makes it one of the youngest. That's wild, isn't it?

[01:03:52] But we also find out that every Twillery on the Plaza sweeps for listening devices daily because he says it's a competitive market. I love that. I wonder if that's picked up at all, if that's always been like that. Yeah. I mean, I, I love that nod to just wanting the new fashion, like wanting the new design, like who's going to set the new trends. So I kind of, I completely bought that as a corporate espionage is just something that they have to deal with. Yeah.

[01:04:19] And now they can use that to hide seeking out other types of espionage. Yeah. Um, I do wonder if we're ever going to see that pilots that apparently there's a rebel pilot that crashed in the mountains and they rescued him. And that's how, uh, Luthien got in touch with them. That's one of those stories, you know, saying somebody is going to write a whole short story or novella. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. We will see that person.

[01:04:44] They're probably going to be, um, uh, if I had to guess their species, it would either be, um, one of the blue ones that you mentioned earlier. One of the white ones. There we go. Yes. All right. Let's take another quick break here. And when we come back, let's check in on Luthien.

[01:05:24] Clea is monitoring the fractal radio in Luthien's shop, listening in on bugs they've planted throughout the galaxy. When she settles in on a worrying conversation in the private antiquities collection of powerful Shandrillen Davo Skolden, now father-in-law to Mon Mothwa's daughter. One of his pieces sold to him by a dealer other than Luthien has been found to be a very impressive forgery. And now Skolden wants all of his collection examined right after an upcoming party he's hosting.

[01:05:52] The problem for Clea and Luthien, they've planted a bug in one of the pieces they sold to him, which will be discovered if the piece is scrutinized. Skolden's party is their only chance to retrieve the device before it's caught. Dun, dun, dun! Dun, dun, dun! Lots of get off my lawn energy from Luthien. Yeah. Especially towards the end of this energy, you grouchy old git. Yeah. Yeah, he was...

[01:06:19] Well, first, I mean, I wondered at first why Clea wasn't telling him about that Mishko Davo's assistant stopped by the shop and, you know, and just that she overheard... It seemed like she was hiding this conversation until she finally told him. But then once I saw his reaction, I was like, oh, well, now I get it. Yeah, you better be certain. Like, if you're going to bring this to Luthien and you know that you have to act on it, then wait until you know you have to act on it because it's just going to piss him off. Yeah.

[01:06:46] I don't know if that makes him a good manager, though. Oh, absolutely. He's a terrible manager. He's a terrible people manager. Like, it's... And his argument was so frustrating because she's like, you agreed to this. Yeah, well, only because you told me to. Like, you forced me into doing this. Now that it's going wrong, it's not his fault. Like, blame shifting, man, that triggers me hard. Like, just put your hands up and accept it and move on to the next thing. Like, even if she admits, okay, it's all my fault.

[01:07:16] How does that help you? Yeah. How does that progress what you have to do next? Yeah, and he's like, what have we even gotten out of it? And she's like, well, here's a list. She's like, you know, we got proof. Wolf Yolarin was lying and Wolf Yolarin is a character in season one of Andor. The Clone Wars, Obi-Wan Rebels, just a big empire guy. Um, Skolden is courting the Grand Vizier, who's the guy that we see in the Senate.

[01:07:41] Uh, he's a, his name's Mas Amedda and he's a Chagrian alien. So those are the ones who have, they have Leku, which are like head tails if you're being rude about it, but the things that hang over their shoulders. Only these have points at the bottom and they have horns at the top too. But anyway. Oh, yes. Yeah. I can picture that now. Yeah.

[01:08:01] Uh, and then what I found most interesting in this is she said the hollow news buyout, which means, I think this means that the empire or a government interest has bought out the news network so that they can't publish anti-emperial news. Makes sense. That's a hundred percent makes sense. That's a tactic we see in certain places in the world. Mm hmm. Yeah. Always check your sources and check your sources sources. Yeah. But yeah.

[01:08:31] Um, I, I do wonder about their other bugs. Like they have a bug on Corellia, which is the planet that, uh, Han Solo's from. And that's, there's, it's a very, a lot of criminal activity on Corellia. They have a, um, a bug says, well, yeah. So, so, so Han Solo says, but so the movie solo says, um, they have a bug on Ryloth, which is where the Twi'lek, Twi'lek, what do you think? What do you say? Twi'lek or Twi'lek?

[01:08:59] Uh, I, oh, wait, hang on. You've put both in my brain. Sorry. Twi'lek. Yeah. Yeah. I, I put a emphasis on the eye. Twi'lek's. I feel like that shifted at some point, but I, I'm old school. Probably. I'm probably the wrong person to ask as well. No, you agreed with me. So you were the right person to ask. Confirmation bias. Love it. Yeah. But yeah, I, it seems, and is he now going to be like, oh, we shouldn't have any of those bugs. Like, no, he's, as you said, he's being a cranky old man.

[01:09:31] Yeah. I mean, I think that's the theme of how committed do you be to the rebellion and what is the cost? Because Luthan is now faced with the cost of being exposed. And that is the number one triggering fear to him. Um, it's mentioned, I think it was in episode four, actually, when he's meeting with his Imperial source that they would meet like three months apart. And he's like, the days of waiting three months are behind us now.

[01:09:58] Like he doesn't have the luxury of waiting that amount of time. And that's where mistakes are going to slip in when you don't have the time to plan out your moves and be deliberate. You're going to make mistakes. There's going to be risks that you take. Like, and I, I, as much as like we complained about his explosion, it makes sense. Cause this is the most triggering thing to him is having his secret identity exposed in the most direct way. Like, huh, where did this piece of art come from? Luthan.

[01:10:26] Like it is, there is no hiding. Like he, and he now has to expose himself even more in an attempt to prevent that from happening. So, and this is where his, his commitment is going to be taken. He's going to be tested because he's now got to put himself on the line to fix the, fix the mistake. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um, you know, so that's this next part.

[01:10:50] It was funny before Luthan, he unexpectedly drops by to check in on Bix while Cassian's away and she's not doing well. And he seems interested in assigning her work, but changes his mind when he notices she's in the throes of a drug addiction.

[01:11:05] And, uh, it was, what was funny was in episode four in the chat on the discord, I was talking with Rocky Zim, who is a social worker by the way, uh, about the fact that we were both like, oh man, Cassian, if he's going to go away without Bix like this, he needs someone to check in on her. But I was like, Luthan is not the one to check in on her. No, he's an enabler. He's the worst. So as soon as he shows up, Bix is immediately like something must've happened to Cassian. And he's like, no, no, no, no, no. He's fine.

[01:11:36] But do you think, was he checking in on her for real? Oh man. Was it something more sinister or self-serving or was it both? I mean, he's an information broker. It is, it was, I think what, and what Cassian had said concerned him.

[01:11:53] And if she's in a bad way, she's a risk like either because not necessarily cause she's going to turn tail and run to the empire, but because she's, she, her judgment is going to be impaired and she's going to make bad choices. So I think he's protecting himself. I kind of think he reverse psychology her into asking for work because he was very shifty about, well, I was going to ask you for this, but I know you won't accept that.

[01:12:23] And then she volunteers for whatever it is that he wants her to do. So I feel like he was just like kind of prodding and testing the waters, like how deep into this are you? And I think he'd probably be okay with her continuing to take the drug as long as it kept her functional. Like, cause she's, she's a means to run. And I don't think he has a lot of empathy for her, but he needs to know if you've got a, if you've got a vulnerability, he wants to know about it. Yeah.

[01:12:51] I mean, he apparently is familiar with this drug. They haven't said the name. John talked about this before, so I won't repeat too much, but our favorite theory was posed by Inverse, which they pulled from a role-playing game, Star Wars Age of Rebellion. And there's a source book for the spy class called masks and ciphers.

[01:13:09] And they talk about a drug called Vutilamine, which is an anti-anxiety medication that calms the user's mind for 24 hours, but it's highly addictive and could cause suicidal thoughts, paranoia and impairment in judgment, which. There we go. If there's one thing that the rebels don't need any more of it's paranoia. Yeah. I think the three of them in particular are paranoid enough. Yeah, exactly. Um, so that's, I'm going to, that's going to be my head canon for what this drug is until they identify otherwise.

[01:13:39] But Luthen says the nightmares will come back even harder when she stops the drugs. So, I mean, in that point he's looking at her and he's like, I don't know if I want you to keep going or stop, which is worse, which makes you more unstable. Exactly. Like, there was no, I think you need to stop in there. It was just, maybe you should keep going because it's going to get worse if you don't. Like, there wasn't really a parental, um, like intervention there. It was just, here's the risks. And it's also interesting.

[01:14:09] So he says, you've been struggling and Bix is like, is that what he told you? I'm better than he thinks I am. Um, so she's feeling really defensive about what Cassian thinks of her. Uh, I'm worried. I'm worried. So in the same way, I hope that Cyril swap sides. I'm worried that Bix might be the one who goes from the light to the dark.

[01:14:30] I, I think the, the biggest risk for me with her is that she's going to screw up and it's going to cost lives. So I don't think she's going to switch sides, but I think this spiral of her not being able to deal with, um, like they mentioned killing that young soldier, um, because they needed to quote unquote. And the, the immoral unethical things that they have to do.

[01:15:00] The fact that she can't deal with that sensor on the drug spiral, which then leads to her screwing up a crucial, crucial mission, which means maybe Luthan has to take her out. She sadly takes herself out through, um, guilt and remorse. So I feel like that's her path. The, the toll that the rebellion will take on her, the personal toll will be too much one way or the other. Yeah.

[01:15:27] Which sucks because I, I, I'm sensitive to that happening to a female character because I'm tired of that trope of women aren't strong enough to do this. Like I kind of don't want that to happen to, I want her to be strong enough and on Cassian's level to, to match him at every step. Yeah. Okay. So this is a good time to take that quick, um, quick serious aside and just a content warning.

[01:15:54] I'm going to talk briefly about sexual assault as it pertains to her plot arc in the third episode. And this is, you know, it's easier to talk about that plot arc cause we, we've seen it complete. Um, but this is where with her story is where I'm most lacking that female perspective in the writer's room. Um, we had a particularly tied to episode three of last week. Uh, there's a special chat in the discord for that.

[01:16:20] And there's been some very deep, very thoughtful discussion about this topic and others. Um, but yeah, there was a female response requested. So I do also clock just a bit of unease with the arc her character's taking. It's hard for me to say too much until I see where it ends up.

[01:16:41] But, um, when it comes to the rape scene, Katie, AKA dopamine brought up, you know, the violent shutdown where she hit the Imperial guy with, with, uh, a wrench and, you know, killed him. Um, a lot of people cheered for that. And of course, yeah, you're meant to feel good. She fought back and, and the actress herself said that it was empowering.

[01:17:03] But from the female perspective where, you know, a lot of women, you know, probably have dealt with sexual assault and a lot of time you hear things like, well, if you really didn't want it, you would have fought harder. And, um, when you see these sort of glorified things on TV, I understand. Yeah.

[01:17:23] It's, it feels uncomfortable because, uh, people, this is why people have the idea that rape is always violent and that you can fight your way out of it. Um, whereas in real life, yes, of course, probably as we're listening right now, there is violent rape, rape happening in the world.

[01:17:42] Um, I was, that's just the honest truth, but it is more common that sexual assault comes from someone, you know, very well, a friend you let sleep over on your couch one night, things like that. That is the much more likely scenario. And I would like to see that more represented in stories. Like it would, it could have very well, it doesn't have to be the Imperial asshole who did it.

[01:18:08] It could have been another rebel who she let her guard down around and that happened. So, yes. Um, I wish, I think that if there were women in the writing room, as well as the men, that maybe we would have gotten more nuance in the story like that, because as it is, um, I think that if there were women in the writing room, as well as the men, that maybe we would have gotten more nuance in the story like that, because as it is, you know, I said, I'm going to wait to evaluate Bix's overall arc, but it does make me look more closely at the other female characters.

[01:18:33] I'm like, well, Mon is definitely the most fleshed out female character, but if you look at the rest, aren't they all some form of victim or manipulator? Yeah. And it's, it's such a troubling stereotype that even the best intended writers rooms seem to fall into almost just as, as a norm. It's very frustrating.

[01:18:54] And it's almost like, there's this, I mean, obviously my area is much more Star Trek and it feels like whenever we have these big female led seasons and characters, there's this huge, ridiculous backlash. And I hope it's not the case that writers rooms are steering away from that because the majority of the audience is male. I think that's shifting, but it's still dominated by men.

[01:19:18] And I hope we're not pandering to the fact that that's what a large portion thinks they want to see on screen. It's, it's something we need to break out of and it's so frustrating to watch. Well, you look at the backlash against the acolytes because there was a female showrunner, Leslie Hedlund, but the difference is Tony Gilroy is a fantastic writer. Like no one can hold a candle to Tony Gilroy's political writing. And that is great.

[01:19:44] I'm so glad that we have this, but at the end of the day, Leslie Hedlund cares so much more about the Star Wars lore than Tony Gilroy, who's very dismissive about it when talking about it. He just basically incorporates what's forced upon him as long, you know, he, he just finds a way to do it his way, which is great. We need that. But then to see people going after the acolyte for breaking quote unquote lore and then turning around for, uh, and or and saying, oh, it doesn't matter.

[01:20:13] I don't even want Leia to show up, even though she's supposed to be there because, you know, Tony's God and what, what he wants is the best thing. It's straw man arguments. I almost wish they were honest enough to just say why they actually don't like it and what's actually rubbing them the wrong way. Instead of inventing these, these arguments that are more acceptable to post online. So I don't know. I like that. It's a woman leading the show. I just don't like what she's doing with Canon. Like that's, that's not. Yeah. Nobody cares about Ki-Adi Mundi's birthday.

[01:20:41] And you did not know that there was some legends. It's not even a book. It's just some legends like blog posts from it. Anyway, it's ammunition. That's what sucks. It's that. And that speaks to the abuse thing as well. It's that you can't give them ammunition. And even that level of fighting back has a, has a consequence to it. So it's not as easy as you didn't fight hard enough. There's a consequence to fighting as well. Um, right. Yeah.

[01:21:10] It's, it's so insidious. Okay. Well, we're, we're done with feminism corner. Thank you for those of you who listened to this with an open mind, very much appreciated just to consider it. Um, but you know, who has a very clouded mind is Vix, who we see later. She's high and she's watching good morning Coruscant. And so this ties in with, we heard, uh, Clea talking about the buyout of the news. And now we see it's like very hunger games vibes on the talk show.

[01:21:39] So just very, uh, and it's, it's bestie week galas and celebrations. What I really liked about this, and this is going to shock people because, um, if you've listened to this episode on the last one, I'm not the deepest Star Wars nerd. However, I have spent a lot of time watching the Star Wars holiday special, um, for my sins. I have had to write about it. Okay. And this reminded me of, uh, there's a cooking show cut in the holiday special.

[01:22:09] And as much as they want to bury the holiday special, I could not help but see that in the production design, the way they were talking. Like, it felt like it was pulled right out of the holiday special. And I kind of love that. I feel like they've been embracing the holiday special lately. There's been a few little clips from it or pieces of lore that have popped up other places. So yeah, I'm all for the holiday special redemption arc. Like, yes, it's, it's bad, but it's wonderfully gloriously bad. Yes.

[01:22:37] It's so bad, but the, the, the production is bad, but the content isn't the, like there's some stuff in there you can hold on to. Like it's worth another watch. Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, so Vesti week, that is. There's, there's investitures and, um, I can say they'll talk about that more in. So just remember it's Vesti week, a lot of galas and celebrations that may play a role in the next episode. Hmm.

[01:23:04] But yeah, I, I feel bad for Bix because you just saw how happy she was Amina Rao and what a shell of herself she is on Coruscant. So yeah. Rough. I don't know that there's a happy ending there again. No. All right. Well, turning to someone who's even rougher. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Our last plot arc, saw's new sister.

[01:23:26] So Wilman is still with Saul Guerrera's extremists on Dakar trying to train a man named Pludy to use a ridonium device. They're going to use to steal the explosive fuel from a location that Saul is reluctant to share, but Pludy is struggling to operate the finely tuned device and, uh, ask Saul to tell him which station they're hitting so that he can focus on the one right sequence. And Saul complies the next day.

[01:23:51] So and his right hand Tognath two tubes confronts Pludy and will asking if Pludy is ready for the mission. Will admits that he's not sure. And Saul kills Pludy two tubes pools, a transmission device off of Pludy's body. And Saul says Pludy was a spy and had shared the information. So I gave him yesterday. Do you think that's all true? Oh man. Um, so is a tricky one.

[01:24:20] I, I feel like when he chooses to share something, it's true. I feel like, or there's an element of truth to it. There's a kernel of truth there, but he's so unhinged what he believes one day might be different the next. Like it's similar to Deirdre for me, but in a completely different way where, um, he shapes a shapes a different reality based on his mood.

[01:24:49] Like he's so deep into the rebellion and so, so committed. His own narrative is whatever it needs to be to get to the next day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I will talk about it in the next section, but he's maybe not completely the most level headed person in the world. No, perhaps not. No, but he plays a lot of mind games. Like did Saul ever really plan to kill Wilman or is that all part of the ploy?

[01:25:15] Um, it seems like Plutie didn't want Wil to die, but then also looking back on a rewatch, Plutie did also try to interrogate Wil for information. He's like, who taught you how to use this Rhydonium machine? Uh, so I think the empire knows about Wil for sure now. Mm-hmm. And I wonder if Plutie didn't want him dead because the empire doesn't want Wil dead because of his knowledge. Yeah. I think that makes the most sense. Keep him alive as a source of information even longer.

[01:25:43] With Saw and whether he intended to kill Wilman, man, I think it's like drop of a hat. I think in that moment he did, the next moment maybe he didn't. Like he is a strong leader. I don't think he's a competent leader. Yeah. Because in theory, don't shoot the imperial spy. Yeah. Like keep him and question him. Like, yeah, it looks cool that you shot him in the head. Yeah. And it makes like a big statement and it's a big hoorah moment for all of your people, but

[01:26:13] he's better off alive. Yeah, that's true because you can use that tool. And Luthen would have. Yeah. Feed information through that transmitter. Oh man. Yeah. Sora's a different beast. Yeah. All right. Just to point out a couple of little Easter eggs. So the planet they're on is Dakar. It's, uh, he says, whatever we don't take, we burn. We're not coming back. Uh, and, but then I think that's a great idea. I have to say decades later, they definitely do come back because this is where the resistance

[01:26:41] base is in, uh, the force awakens where they spend a lot of the movie. Oh yeah. I thought that sounded familiar. And, uh, I also just wanted to point out a lot of people are asking about the big furry dude, the big white furry dude. Yes. He's a Jai Goran. His name is more off. And, uh, yeah, I think there are cool species. Uh, I also was just reading the prequel comic to a star Wars fallen order. Yeah. I'm like not first order star Wars fallen order. And there's a more often those two. No, that's fine.

[01:27:11] All right. We get to the last moment of the episode. While Imperial forces presumably wait at the incorrect location to ambush saw's group, saw and will are instead stealing Rydonium from another pipeline elsewhere. Saw tells will about his past and encourages him to take off his mask and breathe in the dangerous Rydonium and feel free. Do you want to take us out with, with saw speech? Yeah, I will not do the great forest Whitaker, any amount of justice.

[01:27:40] Just I, I squealed with glee when he appeared in episode four. I was like forest. Yes. He's such a joy. He's such a big, big name. And he's just committed to this character so much. Um, so yes, while, um, while woman is working, he says, I was younger than you are now, I was a prisoner. They made a work camp in the jungle. No droids, no beasts, just men and cargo. Onderen jungle, real jungle, hot, wet, blistering jungle.

[01:28:09] Old men died fast, just dropped where they stood. We came back the next day. There'd be nothing but a bone or two where they went down. Our clothes just melted away. So they worked us naked. Two, three hundred men, boys really, back and forth until the only thing you could remember was back and forth. Then one day everyone started to itch. Everyone all at once. Even the guards. You could feel your skin coming alive. It was the Rido. They had a leak. You could feel it before you could smell it. So they all panicked and ran away, but it was new to me.

[01:28:39] I'm gonna open the valve now. I have always loved you because I understand it. Because she's my sister, Rido, and she loves me. That itch, that burn. You feel how badly she wants to explode? Remember this. Remember this moment. The perfect night. You think I'm crazy? Yes, I am. Revolution is not for the same. Look at us. Unloved, hunted, cannon fodder. We'll all be dead before the Republic is back and yet, here we are. Where are you, boy? You're here. You're not with Luthun. You're here. You're right here and you're ready to fight.

[01:29:08] We're the Rido kid. We're the fuel. We're the thing that explodes when there's too much friction in the air. Let it in, boy. That's freedom calling. Let it in. Man. For a man that is absolutely unhinged, that made complete sense. Mostly. That's what I kept thinking the entire time. What you're saying is bananas, but I get it. Yeah. Did you... You are watching The Clone Wars.

[01:29:37] Did you get to season five yet? No, not yet. Okay. I'm just about to... I'm at the back end of season two. Okay. Yeah. Okay. You're... Don't worry. You're about to get to where it starts to get good. Oh! Well, I've enjoyed it so far, so that's amazing. No, I mean, yeah. There are good episodes in the first two seasons, but then it does get steadily better, especially once it gets to season four. Amazing. But season five is... There's a plot arc where you see Saw as... In his early twenties, I think he is then.

[01:30:06] And it's interesting, he calls the Rhydo his sister here. But in this jungle scenario, he would have presumably been with his actual sister, Stila, who was heading up their local resistance cell when the Clone Wars checks in on them and she dies in that arc. Oh! And yeah, and so that was one of the things that first really set him off on being this more radical kind of revolutionary. Oh, that's really interesting. So, yeah. I don't know what to...

[01:30:36] Rhydonium, it is like a sort of super gasoline space fuel. We know it's very explosive. Apparently it gets you high. We know it's damaging. Apparently it gets you high. Yeah, apparently so. Yeah. I don't know quite what to make of it. What to make of Will's embrace of it at the end. Let it run wild. Let it run wild. Yeah, there's this metaphor again for me, which was, for me what I took out as the continuing

[01:31:05] theme of committing to the rebellion. And the taking in the Rhydonium and Saw has built up this immunity to Rhydonium now. So he can be around it, he can breathe with a bit more easily. And that just read to me as living in the trauma of a rebellion and being prepared for that. So they went very literally with it and had Willman take in the gas as his like christening into the rebellion.

[01:31:32] Like so far you've had the relatively fluffy side with Luthun where you have the espionage, cloak and dagger. We are the tip of the sword of the rebellion and it's much dirtier. Your insides will get dissolved. Breathe it in boy. Like you're one of us now. So I feel like this is a recruitment pitch and indoctrination pitch. I get baptized. Yeah, exactly.

[01:31:55] A baptism of Rhydonium gasi fire where Saw sees a person that he can add to his ranks. So it feels like the flip side of the rebellion and committing in a different way. This is committing your body to the rebellion and that it's gonna, it's gonna take a toll. And it sounds insane, but guess what? This rebellion is insane because even if we win, we're probably not going to enjoy the fruits of our victory. Yeah.

[01:32:24] Um, it does though. I do think it's the reason now why Saw talks like that. Like he's always kind of gasping for air. And then we see when we see him in rebel one, he is using an oxygen mask. Totally makes sense. I think this probably wore him down. Yeah. Okay. So would you rather, knowing what we know at this point in the story, would you rather be Team Mon, Team Luthan or Team Saw? Oh man, I'm not prepared in any way to be Team Saw.

[01:32:54] I am a fluffy, privileged man that likes to have his breakfast and lots of cups of coffee. He would not, I would not do well in the jungle. I like watching Survivor. I would not like to be on Survivor. Um, I love politics. Um, my, my, uh, my university degree is in politics and history.

[01:33:15] So I think I would do best with Mon because my built in anxiety and paranoia would not do well with Luthan either. I would expose myself just by being nervous, but I think I can talk my way through some stuff with Mon Mothma. So I think that that would be, and also I get to hang out with Mon Mothma. Yeah.

[01:33:41] No, that's, I mean, so I think Mon is definitely the, I think she's the best person out of the three in terms of, you know, being a kind, empathetic, uh, caring person. I think that is her, but I don't know. So I look at, so I'm also, I can't do Team Saw. I just, I could not do the willy nilly let's just kill people. I would try to impose logic and I would definitely get shot in the head quickly. Exactly.

[01:34:09] Um, my problem with the Mon Mothma side is that it's a bit too insidious for me in some ways. Like I'm not good at faking things. Like I wouldn't be able to pay, play that role. You know, I would just, someone would say something. Well, yeah, sorry. That now that's a conversation from the next episode, but I might, I would clap back when people said things, you know, no, here's some truth. Uh huh.

[01:34:36] And that would probably make me not the best suited there. Although Leia, that was her role and she was definitely had that personality. So yeah, she was definitely, um, more vocal and perhaps less tactical, but there's, there's a place for it. Yeah. Um, meanwhile, team Luthen, like in terms of his position, that's what I would most be interested in something where you're in a position where you have a lot of access, but not a lot of, you're not bound to places.

[01:35:03] You know, you have a lot of independent access to places, but at the same time, I don't think that Luthen is a great boss. No. I don't think I would want to be an operative under him. No, I don't want my performance reviews to be with Luthen. In terms of HR departments, I'm definitely going with team Mon. Yes. Yeah. So I don't know. It's a toss up between those two, but I agree.

[01:35:30] I am, I am too soft and too soft hearted. Most importantly for team saw. I think in general, I'm not built for rebellion, but I'll support. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any final thoughts on this episode? Um, no, I just loved it. That the, the theme of committing to the rebellion rebellion for me could be me reading too much into it, but I love how that wove its way through every storyline.

[01:35:58] Um, one downside is not enough mom. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. So since you have not seen episode six yet, what is your wildest prediction for episode six? Oh my gosh. I, I think, uh, Wilman is 100%. 100% committed to saw and go super militant jungle.

[01:36:22] And I think that Cyril, I think my wildest prediction is that Cyril goes full Gorman and ends up completely shifting sides. And that's going to be set up. That's going to be set up for the next one year gap where he goes full underground, but for the wrong reasons. Okay. All right. And, um, what's going on in captain's pod? Um, yes.

[01:36:50] At the minute we are between seasons, but we have about 200 episodes for you to listen through. We just finished, um, Star Trek pod for anyone who didn't miss that last week. Yeah. This is the other star franchise, Star Trek. Um, so yeah, each episode, we take an episode of Star Trek and I guide ambassador Denae through it. Here is a relapse Star Trek fan trying to get back into the franchise.

[01:37:14] Um, so yeah, the, I think we'll be returning for strange new worlds, but yeah, we have a back catalog of about 200 episodes to listen through at your leisure. All right. Awesome. Well, thank you again to Ian and listeners stick around, uh, and I'll give you the updates on what the upcoming and or coverage and other coverage on the network looks like. Thank you, Ian. Thanks for having me. Thank you again to Ian.

[01:37:42] And if you are a Star Trek fan or want to be a Star Trek fan, do check out his captain's pod. You'll find that link in the show notes and or fans watch out for the next episode, which will be the episode six breakdown coming from the Delta squadron in the public feed subscribers to supercast and Patreon. We'll get more and or content this week, at least a Holocron lore cast on Sunday, uh, this time talking about the Tarkin massacre and what that looked like in legends.

[01:38:12] Uh, also of course, the additional weekly rebel squadron radio mini briefings, plus other audio and visual extras like David's chats with the man who literally wrote the book on Star Wars military strategy and David's tie Avenger video deep dive.

[01:38:29] If you only want these and or extras plus all the public and or episodes from this season and last ad free, you can unlock your own private and or extras listening list for a one time price of $10 via the season pass. And again, that links in the show notes monthly and supercast Patreon subscribers. So we'll automatically get access to all of that. Plus all the extras for wheel of time, severance rings of power, et cetera.

[01:38:56] Uh, not to mention the regular extra extras like the monthly second breakfast. We just released a really fun episode talking about pizza and the 11 Z's movie club, which this month will be covering the recent film, a real pain. Uh, we also have in the public feed weekly episodes for the last of us. Uh, John and David are doing that doctor who John and I are doing that. And Ian pops by sometimes as well.

[01:39:22] Plus there are other regular series and one shots also in the works, not to mention all the other affiliate feeds in the network. Nevermind the music where psychology meets music, radioactive ramblings. They just released a new fallout lore cast. We'll shift dust my own podcast that has silo and, uh, dune coverage and some other random things. It's the podcast that studies art of adaptation, mostly in the sci-fi genre.

[01:39:50] Uh, the star Wars Canon timeline podcast that's self-explanatory, uh, Ray rings and rituals, Maryland's podcast about, uh, deeper dives into rings of power and properly Howard movie reviews. You can find links to all this stuff in the link tree, in the show notes. You'll also find in the show notes, the email address and or at the lore hounds.com where you can send all your thoughts about the show for discussion on the pod. Also do join our discord discussion.

[01:40:18] We've have a really lively and very thoughtful and deep discussion going on about all of the ideas and themes and Easter eggs and, um, storytelling points. Uh, and of course, cinematography and all that too going on in and, or there's a special dedicated forum for star Wars coverage, which you'll currently find under current shows there, which has channels per episode for and, or so you can discuss the episodes at your own pace without getting spoiled. Okay.

[01:40:47] And that brings us to set to the randomly selected tune come about from the pirate folder of this random collection of music. I got from John, uh, allow me to thank first our discord server boosters, Aaron K. Tiller, the thriller, dork of the ninjas, do 71, Athena, Adjalea, Tina, Lestu, Nancy M, ghost partition and radioactive Richard. Now, thank you so much to all of you who are listening.

[01:41:12] If you are listening on the star Wars feed, know that there is a lore hounds feed with a lot more content covering a lot more things. If you're listening, if you prefer a star Wars only feed, look for and or lore hounds as it's currently called while we are releasing. Thank you, especially to all of our subscribers. Most of all, to our highest tier of subscribers, our lore masters to get a shout out every episode.

[01:41:36] And that is Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O.H., Adam S, Nancy M, Doob 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C, Matthew M, Sarah M, Andra B, Kwong Yu, Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Sub Zero, Aaron K, Dally V, Mothership 61, Narls, Kathy W, Lestu, Jeffrey B, Elisa Yu, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Stephen N, Julia F,

[01:42:03] Kali S, Ilmariel, forward slash Tim, and always last, Adrian. Thank you all so much. Please feel free to share this episode with anyone else you think wants coverage of and or on an episode by episode basis or just might think that we're fun. And please do feel free to leave a positive review wherever you're listening. You have no idea how much that helps. Okay. Have a great week. And may the force be with you.

[01:42:31] The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. And connect with us on Twitter at the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.

[01:43:06] Excellent. If we release three episodes per week, the Lorehounds will never be able to cover every episode. The Imperial forces will crush the rebellion before it begins. Standby. We're picking up something on our scanners. Echo Squadron reporting in. Delta Squadron on your left. Tango Squadron on your six. With Imperial forces coming in fast, we're calling all Rebels to join the fight this season.

[01:43:30] Starting after the April 22nd premiere, you'll hear three full breakdowns for each week's episodes of Andor Season 2. Each podcast will be led by one of our squadron leaders, Alicia, David, and John. We'll be bringing in new and familiar voices to fill out the roster. Search for the Lorehounds on any podcast platform to join us in a galaxy far, far away. And don't forget to check out our season pass for even more content like our Holocron bonus pods. It's good news for anyone except Darth Vader.