Doctor Who - S01E07 - Rogue

[00:00:00] This summer, we enter a new era of Star Wars. You mean the dawn of the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast? Yeah, yeah sure, that too. But I was obviously talking about the Acolyte. We've got to cover that on The Lorehounds.

[00:00:18] Oh, but the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast is exactly at that point in the timeline, the end of the High Republic, 100 years before the prequel trilogy. We've got to cover it there. Why not both? Okay, deal. It's the first live-action Star War outside the Skywalker saga.

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[00:00:52] Wherever you like to listen, a couple of days after each new episode is released. Welcome to the Sonic Screwcast, where The Lorehounds, your guides to all of time and space or maybe Bridgerton. I'm John.

[00:01:31] And I'm Alicia, and this is our coverage of the BBC and Disney Plus series Doctor Who. In this episode, we'll be discussing season one, episode seven, titled Rogue. And as much as we enjoy discussing this show amongst ourselves, we also want to hear from you.

[00:01:49] Send any thoughts about the show or our coverage of this show to TARDIS at the lorehounds.com or visit the website, the lorehounds.com slash contact. And there you'll find a contact form and also a built-in voicemail feature.

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[00:02:19] You get ad-free episodes and much more. Subscribing is a great way to help us make more time. You want me podcasts? Spoiler warning, everyone. We're going to talk about everything. Doctor Who apparently things that were not considered canon prior to this episode.

[00:02:35] So anything that the BBC has ever put out about Doctor Who. We might spoil it. Yep. Yep. All right, Alicia. What did you? I was going to ask, what did you think of this episode? After you were very polite in this Bridgerton episode. I thought it was great.

[00:02:55] This was this was the first episode I think that didn't improve on rewatch because it was good from the beginning. OK. You know, like not that it's a bad episode. I'm just like it wasn't like a think piece. This one.

[00:03:09] This was more of a just go have fun, which we need in an episode like that, especially after 73 yards and dot and bubble. I think those were two like really heavy think piece Doctor Who episode. Right.

[00:03:22] I mean, this one was, you know, pulled on the heartstrings a lot. Absolutely. But but like you were right there in the moment, right? There wasn't really a deeper layer to that. Right. No, it wasn't. It wasn't a philosophical one. It was a plot driven one. Right.

[00:03:40] I think that's a genre of Doctor Who. That's a subgenre of Doctor Who that we haven't seen much of this season. So I'm glad that we're doing it now. Right. So, yeah, I thought it was really fun. I don't watch Bridgerton. I know you do.

[00:03:53] So I'm excited to hear your thoughts. I you know, I do like a fun, you know, Victorian style ball. But yeah, I don't I don't specifically watch Bridgerton, but it seemed like they captured it. I think Ruby and the doctor have an amazing time.

[00:04:12] Like they were just having a blast for most of this. And I really love Jonathan Groff in this. I thought he was an excellent, excellent love interest for the doctor. I like him in general. And seeing him in Doctor Who, it fit really well.

[00:04:29] When they first showed him, I was worried. I was like, are they just recreating Jack Harkness? And now I'm like, yeah, but it's good. So it's different. Yeah, it is different. It is different. I think he's a lot. He's honestly less flirty, right?

[00:04:45] Because the doctor is the one who has to pull him out. Right. He's more. Yeah, the doctor's more the Jack Harkness in this situation. Right, right, right. Jack is trying to flirt with everybody. The doctor is the one being like, oh, a handsome man. And I loved it.

[00:05:00] I loved seeing this different doctor. I saw a criticism on Reddit this season, before this episode, where they said, I feel like RTD only writes one doctor and it's up to the actor to make them different. Whereas Moffat distinguishes his doctors really well.

[00:05:19] And I don't agree with that. And I think this episode proves that. This doctor, not just because he's gay, but because he's willing to put himself out there is much different than any other doctor.

[00:05:33] The 10th doctor can't say I love you to Rose, can't put his feelings out there. This one's like, yeah, let's go on an adventure together and you're amazing and we're great together. And I love that.

[00:05:47] That's a new tone for the doctor that I don't think we've seen before. Yeah, we talk about, we've talked previously about this bi-generation thing and whether it is to give this doctor as, as Davis, I think is the one who said time to recover from the past trauma.

[00:06:05] Well, we see in this episode, the doctor is still carrying this trauma and it's always going to carry this trauma. But I think what this gave him was time to get in touch with himself more. Time to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:21] And people are talking about the crying on Reddit. He's crying a lot, this doctor, like every episode he's crying. So? No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually think that the, the answer to that is this doctor is allowing himself to feel

[00:06:40] in the moment where his previous incarnations would have bottled it up until it exploded. I agree. As the time Lord victorious. Yes. We have a more emotionally healthy doctor here. But a doctor who still has the darkness that we saw in early in, in original new who. Yeah.

[00:07:00] That comes out this episode. I think, I think the ninth doctor would have been proud to hear, you know, oh, that's a long time to suffer 600 years or whatever it was. You know, I think back to the ninth doctor in the Dalek episode saying, why don't you

[00:07:15] just kill yourself? And yeah, this darkness that's, that's within the doctor has not gone away. We see in this episode, it's just, it's, it's lesser, but it's still part of him. Right? Anyway, what'd you think? Yeah, I mean, this one felt like it was really made for me.

[00:07:39] I am a fan of Bridgerton, although I have to be honest, I love Bridgerton. But I first and foremost love Jane Austen and love like actual 19th century literature and you know, that kind of English society literature that's really more about figuring

[00:08:00] out how to be who you are in a world that tells you how to be. And so I took a little bit of exception that this episode, they said the name Bridgerton three times and they didn't mention Jane Austen once, even though they did name one of the

[00:08:14] characters, Emily Beckett, which was a clear Elizabeth Bennett nod, which is the main character of pride and prejudice. Okay. By the way, this Bridgerton focus, I want to come back to that after your hot takes

[00:08:28] because I think that there's a fan theory that's going around that points to why they focused on Bridgerton. Oh wait, go for it. What is it? All right. So every episode this season has had a genre, right?

[00:08:43] It's been horror and then, you know, just straight up sci-fi with what was trying to say dot and bubble I would say, right. Or maybe dystopian boom is this war movie. This one is romance. You had the biopic with the Beatles one, right?

[00:09:09] And I think that people are saying, what if Susan twist is one of the Pantheon? That's like the storyteller. And Susan twist is just trapping them in stories and that's why she shows up all the time. Okay. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah.

[00:09:26] Cause we see, we see her this time as the painting Millie notices and she's like, and then she asks her friend, the Duchess and she's like, yeah, it's my mother-in-law. Her eyes are always following me, always watching me. Yeah.

[00:09:40] So what if she's a self insert of one of the Pantheon? Yeah, no, that makes sense. And they're, and they're all within these stories. Right. And so that's why it would make sense to me like, oh, they're like Bridgerton, Bridgerton

[00:09:52] because it's, it's signaling like this is a TV show. Right. This is a TV show inside a TV show. Right. No, that's, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. I feel, I like the idea of this bigger connection.

[00:10:06] Um, it did feel, also feel like the most doctor who episode yet this season, like the most, like if I were to, if someone were to ask me independently of watching the season, what is doctor who what's it like?

[00:10:21] I would point to an episode like this one as an example. Okay. Yeah. I think I'm with you on that. I hadn't thought about that before, but I think I'm with you. I thought it had one of the best cold opens of the, of the season.

[00:10:35] Um, it really, it set the story and you know, is intriguing and exciting and funny and not at the same time with the, and we see our first murder like you are wicked. Would be so much more fun to be you. Yeah. I really liked that turn. Yeah.

[00:10:56] That was, that was a good introduction. Um, I know some people have been complaining about that, uh, and shooty and Millie haven't gotten enough screen time together yet this season, but I do love what I do get. I think that their chemistry is so good.

[00:11:13] Uh, but it was also great to see their chemistry with the other characters, you know, and shooty with Jonathan Groff and Millie with Indira Varma as the, um, as the countess. So it was really great cast this episode and also the writing staff was, uh, was top.

[00:11:31] So Kate Herron, who's best known for being like the brain behind season one of Loki. She was one of the writers with Brian E. Redmond and yeah, so the really a lot of top talent going into this episode. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:47] This is a, this is top tier who I think. So I think you're right. Um, you of course made the mistake of going on IMDB and checking out the, uh, the audience ratings, but I, we learned from the acolyte. You can't really focus on those.

[00:12:03] Well, I thought I, I mean, I was like, Oh, look at the one star reviews. We know what that's about. But then I went to look at the acolyte. My God, this is really the most review bomb thing I've ever seen. Yeah.

[00:12:15] Well, the acolyte has gotten me to read two high Republic books in the last week. So there you go. Oh wait, two. Yeah. I finished another one. What's the other one? Path of Deceit. Oh, cool. Wow. I'm almost done with Battle of Jedi. How do you do them?

[00:12:30] All right. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to be an expert by the time we record our podcast. Awesome. Um, you've done something to me, Alicia, with star Wars. Now I have to, now I have to just power through.

[00:12:43] Shall we get to the whole, the whole shebang, the whole shindig? What's the word? I'm going to say okay, because that's anachronistic and we're teaching all you shapeshifters how to use it. So would you like to tell me what the episode's about? Sure.

[00:12:59] Um, so I wrote a little summary. Uh, okay. The doctor and Ruby attend a ball in Bath in 1813 where the doctor meets a mysterious bounty hunter named Rogue. When desiccated corpses start being discovered, Rogue believes that the doctor who is clearly

[00:13:15] like Rogue, a man out of time, must be responsible. He believes him to be a Cholder, a member of a murderous bird-like shapeshifting race. Despite the doctor's flirting, Rogue takes him back to his ship about to transport him

[00:13:28] to an incinerator when the doctor uses Rogue's scanning equipment to reveal himself as a Time Lord and thus not the murderer. Then he takes Rogue back to his TARDIS to show him what a proper ship looks like and

[00:13:40] they nearly share a kiss talking of traveling the galaxy together. Meanwhile, Ruby has befriended the Duchess of Pemberton, the party's hostess, and a spurned woman named Emily Beckett who by the midpoint of the episode are both, unbeknownst

[00:13:55] to Ro- to- oh I almost called her Rose- unbeknownst to Ruby, uh being cosplayed by Cholder. Because it turns out there are many Cholder here who've come for the quote unquote Bridgerton Party and intend to drain and replace people of power first in England and then the world

[00:14:11] until they've cosplayed the planet to death. And it seems while the doctor was distracted by his own playacting in Dancing with Rogue, the Cholder playing Emily has gotten Ruby and taken her place. The doctor reconfigures Rogue's transporter device, setting it to send the Cholder to

[00:14:29] another dimension and traps them. But it's revealed that the real Ruby is still alive after using her psychic earrings to fight off Emily and then mimic her scent and mannerisms to pretend to be her.

[00:14:42] But now Ruby is stuck in the transporter trap with the Cholder, so Rogue grabs the doctor and kisses him, stealing the transporter activator at the same time and then jumps into the transporter trap using his momentum to knock Ruby out and take her place.

[00:14:56] He presses the button and as he disappears into that unknown dimension he yells out, and the doctor is left standing with Rogue's ring and no idea where to begin. Okay, one nitpick for that ending sequence is if you could just knock someone out of

[00:15:13] that ring, why aren't the Cholder doing that to each other? Yeah, I mean, I guess I thought that it might be like you have to take their place, but then I thought why not just use the body because there was the Emily Cholder was still there.

[00:15:27] Why not just like use her to knock Ruby out? Right. Yeah, it was very confusing. It was very confusing. I'm just going to wipe that away. I'm going to get some cereal for that because this is Doctor Who baby or babes.

[00:15:42] Sorry, I'm trying to incorporate babes into my vocabulary. Oh yeah, wait, did you load up the... I asked my British friend about saying babes because she was using it. I'm going to load it up right now because that's exciting and I want to hear it. Hold on.

[00:15:56] My technology is working about as well as the doctors. You know, it's the doctors. It's kind of like screwdriver after it's taken away. Yeah. All right, here we go. Okay, Ashley, so do British people say babes? Yes, babes. Of course we do. We say it all the time.

[00:16:15] Okay, babes. Okay, thank you, babes. Oh my gosh. She would have fit in in the Dot and Bubble episode. Yeah, she was putting on that persona. Oh my gosh, that's funny. That's funny. Yeah, I love the babes thing. Yeah, yeah, we love it.

[00:16:36] I said to my wife, I said, I'm going to start saying babes. She goes, are you from England? And I was like, no. She goes, then don't say babe. You have to say it like that though, babes. Babes. I'm trying. I'm trying. So I have a nitpick. Okay.

[00:16:55] I mean, it's not, this is also just eating cereal, Doctor Who, but okay. My brain though in the beginning, I love that he changes every episode now. Obviously has a nice costume supply on the TARDIS, that makes sense.

[00:17:09] But does he also stock wigs or did he use sudden hair regeneration powers to create that ponytail? Ooh, I think he stocks wigs. Yeah, that makes sense. I think that probably makes the most sense. Do you know the do you wear wigs thing? No, what's that?

[00:17:28] Oh wait, that sounds familiar. What is it? Okay, so I have to give you the background now. So at some point around the time of the Lord of the Rings, Elijah Wood signed up to do an interview, but secretly the interviewer was Dominic, what's his last name?

[00:17:47] Oh, right, Mary? Yeah, Mary or Pippin. One of them. Pippin. Yeah, the one who was in Lost. He put on a German accent and he asked him about wigs. So here we go. When will you wear wigs? That's just the end of it.

[00:18:05] But he's like, will you wear wigs? It's very funny. I would encourage everybody to look this up because Elijah Wood could not hold it together. But anyway, that's what I always think when we talk about wig watch. So Elijah Wood knew it was him then, obviously.

[00:18:22] No, he didn't. Oh, he didn't? It was blind. It was audio only. Okay. And so this was just a big prank on Elijah Wood. He was like, why are you asking me about wigs? He asked him about four questions in a row about wearing wigs.

[00:18:37] Anyway, the point is, I think the doctor stocks wigs. Yes, this makes sense. Makes sense. I loved also Ruby calling out Lord Stilton. Although I don't believe that the Countess would find it delightful. She would. Maybe, maybe a little bit. It depends.

[00:18:56] I think anyone who enjoys Bridgerton is like, what else should I watch? Run out and watch both Sanditon and Gilded Age. And in Gilded Age, there's a real woman named Mamie Fish. I mean, sorry, a character in Gilded Age based on a real woman named Mamie Fish.

[00:19:15] And she is always the one who's like looking for the troublemakers and trying to stir stuff up. Which is apparently the real woman's personality. So the Countess reminded me of her a bit. Yeah, I did like, like there are clues early on that there's Cholder there.

[00:19:33] Although I guess the Countess wasn't a Cholder at that point. Right. Nevermind. She was just a bitch in the beginning. Fair enough. I was going to say you have notes about the flirting. Right. Which I agree with you was very fun. Yeah, I love the psychic.

[00:19:50] He looks at the psychic paper. He's like, it says you're hot. Like I'm hot or you're hot. Which just yeah, I meant to look it up exactly how psychic paper is supposed to work again

[00:20:02] because it's supposed to be, it's supposed to show them whatever they need to see at that moment. Right. I think you have to think what it is. I think because because the doctor needs to be able to say like, I'm from this agency. Right.

[00:20:18] Because he does that all the time. So I think I think you're projecting what you wanted to say. But it is often the case. It seems like people look at it and it doesn't say anything. Yeah.

[00:20:28] I can think of a few instances where people are like, it says that you're, oh yes. I think we're going to just wibbly wobbly that one. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Because that's I think it works exactly how it's supposed to work in the particular episode.

[00:20:41] I think in this instance, it's supposed to be the doctor wants it to say whatever he said. I don't even remember. And instead it says his most prominent feature. Right. And then it's like, oh, I'm not sure what it's supposed to say. Right. Okay.

[00:20:56] Either way, it makes sense. I mean, because then also if it's the other way, then it's like what the rogue what rogue needs to see is your hot. Mm hmm. There you go.

[00:21:08] I was surprised that Disney let them kiss actually after the first time when they got when they got interrupted. I was like, oh, Disney's never going to let them do it because I guess I'm also burned by the fact that they're not allowed to kiss.

[00:21:20] I guess they're never going to let them do it because I guess I'm also burned by the way other stories have been treated. Like, for instance, in Wakanda Forever, I was very excited about a certain ship from the comics.

[00:21:32] And then we just got like a kiss on the head in the background. Like what? And I made a comment in our Acolyte breakdown about how I didn't think that Disney would actually let them make the show too gay or I can't remember the exact context.

[00:21:48] But then right after that, I watched this episode. It's like, well, I stand corrected. I'm sorry, Disney. Well, and they've got Deadpool versus Wolverine this year, which seems like it's Deadpool. And so I think it's a new day. Disney, it's a brave new Bob Iger.

[00:22:06] Oh, well, I hope so, because I mean, I liked the old Bob Iger, but the new Bob Iger is kind of sucked. Hmm. He hasn't been the allied creatives that he used to be. Let's just say that.

[00:22:18] Well, that's, um, yeah, I will say I, I don't hate the decision to reduce the number of series for things like Marvel and Star Wars so that we have. No, I understand. That's pretty good. That's not my problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.

[00:22:34] Um, but speaking of Disney, I had to laugh when, when there's the reveal of Rogue Ship and he's like, now that's a ship. And in my brain, I thought, now that's a Disney budget. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:49] It seems like the way it's working is that Disney gives them money to publish it, but it's not. It's still a BBC show. Like they create it from beginning to end. Mm hmm. Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:00] You get the, it's kind of the best of both worlds because they get Disney budget, but they, you know, have creative freedom. I think that was an RTD decision. Yeah, exactly. I agree. Um, so should we talk about the big reveal scene on Rogue Ship? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:20] Jodi Whittaker justice, justice for Jodi. Uh, um, I mean, first of all, it was kind of Rogue Scanner's kind of shit if it picks up that he's a shapeshifter, but not two hearts. But anyway. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:34] I mean, and a shapeshifter that's so like, are we all shapeshifters because we grow from child to adult? Like it's right. It's vague. Feels very vague. Right? Yeah.

[00:23:48] I guess I was eating cereal for that, but I did like just the power of the moments and just showing all these different faces. It was a good tease about regeneration for new viewers because they haven't explained that aspect yet to people who just started watching. Mm hmm.

[00:24:05] Um, of course a callback for old. It was funny. Tenet was in there twice because of course he plays two different doctors. You got him. And we had the fugitive doctor and the war doctor. Um, and the one that everyone's talking about Richard E.

[00:24:20] Grant as the doctor from a previously considered non-canic, uh, short animated series, Scream of the Shalka. Which, which RKD had previously said he did not like, and which is why he didn't consider it canon. I mean, he seems like he's coming around on a lot of things. Right?

[00:24:42] Yeah. That's pretty funny. I mean, maybe he's just like, well, I don't care about the story, but the doctor. Yeah, he's, he's good. He's good. Well, it's interesting too, because he was numbered nine. Right?

[00:24:53] That he was called the ninth doctor and then RTD was like, no, this is the ninth doctor. And he points to Christopher Eccleston and Christopher Eccleston's like, fuck this. I want to leave. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, uh, it's super interesting. Super coming in. Isn't the war doctor.

[00:25:09] Wasn't the war doctor kind of also considered that way? Does the war doctor get a number? Fugitive doctor doesn't get a number. So doesn't get a number either. Right? So the numberings are already all wonky.

[00:25:20] Um, someone called out that Claire once said to the 11th doctor, I've seen your faces all 11, but I guess I'm writing that off as the fact that Claire saw what he had in his mind. You know, those are the faces he knew about.

[00:25:35] Well that, and, and when she says that he, he right away says, no, there's another one that I don't think about. And then the war doctor walks in. Okay. That's true. Okay. That's how they introduced John Hurt as the doctor.

[00:25:50] Don't you remember they had that big like overlay. They're like introducing John Hurt as the doctor. No, I remember all the, yeah, I remember the war doctor thing and the promo around it. Yeah. But yeah, so it seems like he's leaning into this.

[00:26:03] So it's going to be interesting to see what he does with this whole multiverse of doctors kind of, especially considering the children and this gets sent to a quote unquote alternate dimension.

[00:26:14] Also RTD before, before, um, Paul McGann gets too old, can we please give him his own like season of something or a movie? I just, I feel like we were robbed of a Paul McGann doctor. Who's Paul McGann? He's the eighth doctor. Oh, okay.

[00:26:33] I want more eighth doctor. Okay. I haven't watched that movie. I need to watch that movie. He has such a charisma and it was restricted to the movie and the movie was supposed to launch the American made series and then the American made series didn't happen. Right.

[00:26:50] But it, it's really weird because at one point they were almost not going to consider the eighth doctor canon when they were developing the new series because it was a movie, it was a standalone movie, but also they had Sylvester McCoy, the seventh doctor regenerate

[00:27:05] into Paul McGann at the beginning of the movie. Right. So it's kind of weird to not consider that canon. Right, exactly. Anyway, enough, enough doctor who politic. All right. I got to, I'm putting that movie, bumping it up my list. I got to watch that one finally.

[00:27:20] Oh, I haven't even watched it yet. Maybe we could, we could add that to a, to a watch list. We could do this post season. We could do like a special podcast about it. Yeah. Do like a movie night for, um, for subscribers, something like that.

[00:27:35] That'd be fun. Yeah. Yeah. So I noticed by the way that he said that Rogue said he has a new boss. So I'm thinking it's probably going to turn out to be somebody bad.

[00:27:46] Although I'm kind of on their side, the fact that they're like, Hey, you better double check your bounties before you kill them. Yeah. Right. That's a, I wonder if the, if the boss is either Jack Harkness or Richard E. Grant. Richard E. Grant was also the great intelligence.

[00:28:09] Okay. Like he was a previous doctor who villain. But I mean, how many, how many actors have played more than one role in doctor who? True. But, but my question is like, they, they've explained Peter Capaldi away. Right?

[00:28:26] Like they, they've explained that with like, Oh, this face was to remind me to be kind or whatever it was to save people as much as I can. And I don't know. Do you know that David Tennant was in scream of a shell guy was just clicking

[00:28:40] on it to get to Richard E. Grant. Um, that's funny. He was uncredited. Hmm. But yeah, I mean he, I forgot when the grid intelligence was, was that 11th doctor? I don't remember. I am not going to be able to place things on a timeline.

[00:28:56] There's so many episodes that it just blends together after a while. Absolutely. But anyway, I just think it would be really interesting to see them explain that to be like, maybe, maybe the great intelligence was a rogue doctor. Yeah, could be.

[00:29:09] By the way, speaking of, um, multiversal possibilities. So when Chuti got what's saying, you know, like, you know, Um, multiversal possibilities. So when Chuti got what's saying the, uh, the Willy Wonka song as he was walking into the TARDIS, I think that was a reference to apparently

[00:29:29] the way that got what got the part is he said to his agents, like, I want to do something really different. I want to be either Willy Wonka or doctor who. And then, um, yeah. And then they found out doctor who was casting and here we are.

[00:29:43] That's really funny. That's really funny. Willy Wonka is definitely a time Lord. Can we just put that out there? Absolutely. It's Canon. It is known. Yeah, it is known. It is known. We're really crossing the fandoms here. Yeah.

[00:29:58] Well, it's going to be one big massive crossover one day. I'm sure of it actually. It's going to be like Fortnite, but for right. Right. Or what is that kingdom of hearts? The Disney one? Yeah. Kingdom hearts. Yeah. Kingdom. You never played Kingdom Hearts? No, I played it.

[00:30:16] I played it. I played it. I was like my whole childhood. That was great. Yeah. Yeah. I all meant in fact, I think Brandon and I might cover it on the war on play at some point.

[00:30:24] I think I was like I was a little too old when it became popular. Like it wasn't I never really knew people who played it. Oh, I was like 10 or 12 years old when it came out. I was perfect age for it.

[00:30:36] It's it's a it's it's a Final Fantasy spinoff. Mm hmm. But you go through all the Disney worlds because I don't know somebody made a weird marketing deal that I don't think would happen today. Yeah, yeah, it's unbelievable because Disney is like the toughest on that. Mm hmm.

[00:30:51] But they were like, yeah, go ahead and make make one where you fly to different planets that are our worlds. But now but now Disney has stakes in, you know, Doctor Who, Marvel, Star Wars, Planet of the Apes like we could we could get something really going here.

[00:31:08] Yeah. It's it's funny you had asked me, do you think that we'll get Marvelized like Marvel Comics, Doctor Who comics? And they did announce that they're doing Dark Horse comics still. Okay, okay.

[00:31:20] But they are about to put out their first issue, I think on the 15th Doctor, but it's gonna be Dark Horse. Yeah, no, it's fine. It's just I mean, I was just being selfish because I have Marvel Unlimited. Right.

[00:31:32] I've had that from time to time, but then I don't use it enough. And so I had to cancel. Yeah. It's actually because Disney owns so much now it's actually proven quite a good deal. Yeah, yeah. If you're reading comics is a great deal. It's not an ad.

[00:31:46] Okay. Yeah. Sorry. No, we don't get a if Marvel wants to give me some free unlimited. That's great. I've been trying to do joke ads lately like that, because we don't do host right ads on this podcast for various reasons.

[00:31:58] But I've been trying to do joke as we were talking about Otto's beard in in House of the Dragon on the podcast with Mason or Anthony and I said something about manscape. Anyway, speaking of the word, okay, that I keep repeating, right?

[00:32:16] So so that was a funny because we didn't know when Emily said this. We didn't know yet that she was a child and she's like, I know the word. Okay. So I had to look this up. And okay, was the first time it's in publishing.

[00:32:30] It was very much an American word. It means like all correct. Yeah, like all correct. It's like a joke, right? Because right, spelled. Right. And it's it was first published as okay, in March 23 1839 in the Boston Morning Post. So this is like 26 years earlier in a different country.

[00:32:52] So it's a bit anachronistic, but it could be one of those things like the doctor made the joke about accidentally accidentally inventing asphalt. That's pretty funny. Yeah, I like I like the okay thing and you know, if you're Australian, it's archive.

[00:33:12] I could listen to Australian people say vowels all day. I think it's great. You guys keep doing what you're doing. I love an Australian accent. R&R. Go on. Speaking of what people normally say, I liked the callback where Rogue says run and Doctor

[00:33:31] says I'm normally the one who says that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's pretty funny. Run for your life. That's an earworm for me is when the night doctor goes, Hi, I'm the doctor. Run for your life. Yeah, that was that how we first met Rose? Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:33:50] In with the the dolls, you know, yeah, the mannequins. The autons. Autotons, right. Which, by the way, do you know that that's a classic who villain? The autons? I found out later. I didn't when I watched the episode because I was watching the third doctor's run and

[00:34:07] I was like, wait a minute. I know these autons. Right. I know. I think I just like somewhere in some video or something. They're like, well, when the first episode started out with this classic who villain. Mm hmm. Yeah. And they were they were it's really interesting.

[00:34:25] I was I was thinking about this before about how they they really slowly and I think cleverly introduced the classic who lore and I hope they'll do the similar thing in new new who

[00:34:36] I think having the faces of the doctor here without an explanation is a good way to do that. Right. Good way to start that. Mm hmm. Yeah, I thought that was a nice like people who don't know yet are like, oh, wait, what? Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:52] There was we got some more references because there were some, you know, darker elements to this episode where, for instance, we see the doctor refers to Gallifrey being gone, of course. But he also says to Rogue, I can't let you kill them about the children.

[00:35:08] And then after he thinks that they've killed Ruby, it's I want to I want them to suffer for centuries. Yeah. Yeah. And at the end, he says, oh, he says to Rogue about this, I have to be like this because this is what I'm like about. Oh, yeah.

[00:35:26] No, that was at the end when Ruby says to him when Ruby's like, they don't know how to rescue Rogue. And it seems like he was about to give up a little too easily. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what the doctor was going to do.

[00:35:46] What I thought was that Rogue was going to grab the transport. I thought he was going to grab the trigger and just send them away. And that would have been an interesting thing because the doctor is really into Rogue and trolley problem. That's the right thing to do.

[00:36:04] But the doctor didn't even consider pushing somebody else in because that that would be awful to do if Rogue didn't do it himself to him. Right. Mm hmm. Yes. Except that they could have. Except they could have totally done that with the Emily Childer.

[00:36:20] But anyway, well, you know, we don't we. Who knows? Who knows the rules? But so he says, yeah, Rogue did say to him, can you lose your friend to save the world? And I guess he was talking about himself rather than Ruby.

[00:36:37] Or he looked at the doctor and said, no, you need her more than you need me. Hmm. Yeah. Maybe maybe he knew like she could help him find Rogue more than Rogue could help him. Hmm. Find Ruby. But I don't know how he would know that. Yeah.

[00:36:55] I mean, I guess that ring's got to lead somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess we'll be seeing the shoulder again, too. Yeah, probably. Do you think we'll see Rogue in the season one finale or do you think not until season two? Oh.

[00:37:15] I think season two, I think season two. I don't I don't think this is a season one arc. There's been some people online wondering if Rogue could be the one who waits, but I hope not. Honestly, I don't want Rogue to be a villain.

[00:37:29] Yeah, no, I don't want to be a villain either. I think we we deserve another Jack. Come on. Right. Deserve it. And I know all the things about John Barrowman. He's got some problems. Right. Past. Yeah.

[00:37:44] I mean, I hope in that and also you have the weird thing where he's aging more quickly than his character is supposed to age. Right. Right. So because he's human. Yeah. Well, I mean, you could just say he's farther along towards the face of Bo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:00] Because it could be from way back way later in his. Yeah. Like, oh, this is 3000 years in the future. Right. Like something like that. Yeah. But I don't know. I don't know if RTD wants to bring back John after all of those issues. Yeah. Who knows?

[00:38:15] I think the scandal is enough to keep him away. I would rather Jonathan Groff than John Barrowman at this point. Like this was better chemistry than John Barrowman. Yeah. Well, I mean, if it's going to if you're going to have chemistry with a young actor playing

[00:38:30] a young doctor, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. Doctor's always old, but it's a young actor. Give him another young actor to play off. That makes sense. I think that's fair. Yeah. And Jonathan Groff is great.

[00:38:42] And there's no way that they're not going to make more use of him because, yeah. Yeah. He's a fantastic actor. Let me ask you before we wrap up our thoughts. Do you know this quote about the doctor shifting past that was part of a novel?

[00:39:00] This is being passed around right now because of all these like, you know, the Shalka doctor and things like that. So this is something that this like memory trader says to the eighth doctor in a novel from 1999. I think it was.

[00:39:14] It said, maybe you didn't used to have a father. Maybe you're living in the middle of a time war. Maybe there's an enemy out there who's rewriting you when you're not looking. Maybe you weren't always half human, but now you become always half human.

[00:39:28] Maybe you weren't always a time lord, but now you've always been a time lord. Maybe you originally came from some planet in the 49th century fleeing from the enemy who'd overrun your home. And you've just been written and rewritten and overridden ever since.

[00:39:44] And people are passing that around like, look, the doctor's history can change. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Good point. People, people are saying, are they going to say that like the timeless child is a rewriting of his history? Right. Or maybe the master will become the timeless child.

[00:40:08] Who knows? Well, if Susan Twist is a storyteller, then yeah, maybe the storyteller's been reshaping things. Right, right. I think it would be super interesting to hear like somebody's messing with the doctor's past. Right.

[00:40:22] I mean, we have that in the time of the doctor, but you know, in general. Yeah. No, that makes sense. I'm excited for next week. We get the legend of Ruby Sunday and the trailer is full of Susan Twist. So definitely answers incoming. It better be. Better be.

[00:40:39] We've got two episodes left. Yeah, yeah, I can't believe it. It's kind of like a two parter. It's apparently. I wish they did them on the same night though. Yeah, I know. It's going to be torturous if there's a cliffhanger. And there will be.

[00:40:55] Of course there will be. Otherwise, why would it be a two parter? All right, should we get to feedback? Yeah, let's do that. Of course, you can write in feedback at Tardis at the lorehounds.com.

[00:41:07] You can also go to the lorehounds.com and head to our contact page or you can tag us on Discord and say, hey, John, Alicia, I want this to be right on the podcast and we'll do it. Marilyn Arpiquila, our favorite Tolkien scholar writes in.

[00:41:20] I love that we've made Marilyn a whovian, by the way. She's in every week. She was just messaging me about it like the other day. Oh, lord. Yep. Marilyn says, hello, John and Alicia.

[00:41:32] I absolutely adored this one and I'm really, really glad that Bob and I started watching Bridgerton before I saw it. I tend to like the Earth Historical Doctor episodes the most as a rule. I'm thinking particularly of the Dickens episode.

[00:41:46] Of course, that makes sense since I am a historian by training. I do wonder why no one notices all the flashing lights during the Cholder takeovers. To me, it seems to me to be a fairly obvious signal that something odd is going on.

[00:42:00] I do like the way they conceive of the creatures. At first, I was thinking more cat-like than bird-like, but in the end, they're really rather like both, aren't they? Nice mannerisms with the occasional shudder and bone-sus joints clicking too. Favorite quotes. The name is Bond, Molecular Bond.

[00:42:19] And we have to live each day because they can't. How to go on after the loss of a loved one. That is a great quote. I thought the visual of his reveal as a Time Lord with all the previous incarnations was spectacular, very creative.

[00:42:34] And the image of the Doctor and the Rogue dancing together was just delicious. The acting on both parts was superb. Yeah, I want to comment on that quickly. I love when he's like, just the Doctor, he goes, just Rogue. We're obviously all using code names here.

[00:42:52] Like get off of High Force. Yeah, that was funny. And I also have a request if anyone's a fan also of Interview with the Vampire, I need somebody to cut together. There's a scene from season one of Interview with the Vampire with Louis and Lestat dancing.

[00:43:07] You'll know which one. Cut it together with this one, please. Fair enough. But the reveal of their impetus for what they do was pure delight. They're like living aliens. No other purpose than the emotional highs, no hunger, no world domination, no greed, no envy.

[00:43:24] Mind you, I'm not saying that they're nice creatures at all, but it was a very funny send-up for cosplaying. I can just imagine people weaving this into their future cosplay. How about a Star Trek uniform with a shoulder head?

[00:43:39] I would not be in the least surprised if Rogue's ring turns out to be a link for the Doctor to find him again. And it also looks like we're getting some Susan answers on the next episode. It's about time. As David would say, no notes.

[00:43:53] All the best, Marilyn. Yeah. Oh, wait, I think there was a PS that I forgot to copy in. There's a PS? Well, we need a Marilyn PS. I love the Marilyn PSs. She says, PS, PS, love that Rogue and the Doctor dance the tango anachronistically. Yeah, that's fun.

[00:44:15] I love when they do something out of nowhere and nobody blinks an eye. I think that's really funny. It reminds me of, well, maybe, back to the future, well, maybe your kids are going to love it, right? Right, exactly.

[00:44:30] It may not be for you, but your kids are going to love it. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's wrap this whole show up, Alicia. What are you doing over on Star Wars? I think I know, but maybe you should tell everybody.

[00:44:44] Yes, well, you should know because you are there. So we're doing weekly coverage of the Acolyte right now and also going to do some mailbag episodes in the meantime. So if you have any feedback about the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast coverage of the

[00:45:02] first three ages or eras or any thoughts on those eras themselves, please send that in anything else to SWTimelinePodcast at gmail.com. And on We'll Shift Dust, yeah, we finished off the end of Beacon 23 Season 2 and next up will be my interview with co-showrunner Glenn Mazzara.

[00:45:25] That interview has been pushed till next week, so the episode will be out after that. Cool. Very cool. Aaron from Radioactive Ramblings, he just sent me what they're doing for the week. It is Fallout lore episode four on the master and all knowings lore corner.

[00:45:44] I don't know what that means. Timeline of the lands between. That sounds very interesting. I just don't know what it is. Over on the Lorehounds, we're still doing House of the Dragon.

[00:45:57] We just put out our episode covering the end of season one last week and then we did a season two preview with Maester Anthony. He had us do yuck, yum or meh for each of the characters and that was a lot of fun.

[00:46:14] And of course, you're on Doctor Who, so you know we're still doing that through the end of the season. And we're also going to do a one shot for interview with the vampire. So if anyone's watching, please do send in your feedback about that show and join us

[00:46:29] on the discord to chat about it. Very nice. We have two other affiliates, Rings and Rituals doing the I episode seven of the Rings of Power this week. Marilyn Arpiquilar, our favorite Tolkien scholar, who you heard from today is hosting with Dr.

[00:46:43] Sarah Brown of Signum University to analyze season one of the Rings of Power through the lens of ritual. And Properly Howard movie review is still going. Didn't they just do My Cousin Vinny? Yeah, I actually just listened to that episode. Yeah, that's that's funny.

[00:46:58] I got to listen to that one. I haven't had a chance yet, but it's they're always so funny. Mm hmm. All right, everyone, this has been a lovely journey through time and space with you all. Let's do our thank yous. Alicia, hit me with the list. All right.

[00:47:14] Thank you to our discord server boosters, Narls, Aaron K., Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Doove71, CaptainJinji56, and Athena Angelea and our lore masters, Samartian, Michael G., Michelle E., David W., Brian P., Nick W., S.C., Peter O.H., Bettina W.,

[00:47:33] Adam S., Nancy M., Doove71, Brian8063, Frederick H., Sarah L., Gareth C., Eric F., Matthew M., Sarah M., DJ Miwa, Andre B., Kwong U., JediJediBob, Nathan T., Alex V., Aaron T., Subzero, Aaron K., Dally V., Mothership61. Narls, Kathy W., and Adrian. Always last. All right. We're having fun here.

[00:48:05] We're finishing up Doctor Who, and we'll see you next week. The Lore Hounds Podcast is produced and published by the Lore Hounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact.

[00:48:18] Get early and ad-free access to all Lore Hounds podcasts at patreon.com slash thelorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening. This summer, we enter a new era of Star Wars.

[00:48:39] You mean the dawn of the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast? Yeah, yeah, sure. That too. But I was obviously talking about the acolyte. We've got to cover that on the Lore Hounds. Oh, but the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast is exactly at that point in the timeline, the

[00:48:54] end of the High Republic 100 years before the prequel trilogy. We've got to cover it there. Why not both? Okay, deal. It's the first live action Star War outside the Skywalker saga. Nobody can miss this. Listeners, kick off your hot lore summer weekends with scene-by-scene breakdowns of the acolyte

[00:49:15] found in both the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast and the Lore Hounds' mother feed. And the Lore Hounds' Star Wars feed. Wherever you like to listen a couple of days after each new episode is released.