Doctor Who - S01E09 - Empire of Death

[00:00:00] This summer, we enter a new era of Star Wars. You mean the dawn of the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast? Yeah, yeah sure, that too. But I was obviously talking about the Acolyte. We've got to cover that on The Lorehounds.

[00:00:18] Oh, but the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast is exactly at that point in the timeline, the end of the High Republic, 100 years before the prequel trilogy. We've got to cover it there. Why not both? Okay, deal. It's the first live-action Star Wars outside the Skywalker saga.

[00:00:37] Nobody can miss this. Listeners, kick off your Hot Lore summer weekends with scene-by-scene breakdowns of The Acolyte, found in both the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast and The Lorehounds' Mother Feed. And The Lorehounds' Star Wars feed.

[00:00:52] Wherever you like to listen, a couple of days after each new episode is released. Welcome to the Sonic Screwcast. We are The Lorehounds, your guides to all of time and space. I'm John.

[00:01:31] And I'm Alicia, and this is our coverage of the BBC and Disney Plus series Doctor Who. In this episode, we'll be discussing season one, episode nine, titled Empire of Death. And as much as we enjoy discussing this show together, we also want to hear from you.

[00:01:47] So please send any of your thoughts to TARDIS at thelorehounds.com or visit our website at thelorehounds.com slash contact. And you can use the contact form there or even use the built-in voicemail feature.

[00:02:01] Please also do check out our Discord server where we're talking about Doctor Who and everything else going on right now in this Hot Lore summer. Hot Lore summer! There we go. You'll find the links in the show notes below.

[00:02:15] Also please consider subscribing to us on Supercast or Patreon for as little as three bucks a month. You get ad-free episodes and much more. And it is a great way to help us make more Timey Wimey podcasts and escape Sue Tech.

[00:02:30] So I guess this is our spoiler warning, everything that's ever happened in Doctor Who forever and ever. Amen. Yes. Forevermore. So this is the season finale of New New Who, of the first season of New New Who.

[00:02:46] What did you think, Alicia, of the episode and the season as a whole? Because quite frankly, we're too busy right now to do a separate season wrap up. Right. Yeah, I mean, so I definitely have a higher opinion of the season as a whole than of the episode.

[00:03:03] And it's not that I have a poor opinion of the episode. It's just I thought it was a particularly strong season, but I thought that the strongest set of episodes were the ones, you know, basically between The Devil's Chord and Rogue.

[00:03:17] That was a that was a strong stretch of episodes. Yeah, yeah. I totally agree. I think that overall, and I think this is true of all of RTD's original run too, is that RTD's really good at individual episodes and short arcs and I think falls a little bit

[00:03:34] flat when it comes to wrapping up a big story arc. Mm hmm. But who knows? He could get better. Speaking of the god of music, Maestro, I have to give a shout out to Murray Gold, who's a composer for Doctor Who.

[00:03:52] And you know, he was actually we saw him on screen in that episode. Yeah. The Devil's Chord. He was playing the piano. I just really noticed, especially in this last episode, how much his score set the tone for the episode.

[00:04:09] You know, like my favorite moments were really defined by these quiet visuals, impressive visuals like the doctor hanging out of the TARDIS in space with his score. So I just wanted to recognize that. Absolutely.

[00:04:24] It's truly something that unless you're like really into the industry, it often goes unnoticed because when it's done right, it does go unnoticed. Right. Because it just makes you feel something without it being jarring.

[00:04:35] So, yeah, I mean, Murray Gold has always been the gold standard, if you will. Ha ha ha. He has a good name for this work. It's true. It's true. Yeah.

[00:04:46] I was so I was so thrilled to hear the original Sue Tech voice and you could hear it right when you when you go back to the old one. He has a similar voice. He sounds a little older now. Obviously, it's been how many years? Fifty years.

[00:05:00] Yeah, I think they said forty seven or forty forty seven. OK. And so, yeah, I mean, he's got a tremendous voice. I'm so glad that they got him back because he really sounded like this ancient god who's

[00:05:13] just so pissed at the doctor did a really great job capturing that. It felt like a debate between two points of view that you might read in like. I don't know, a biblical passage of the Koran, you know, all these all these things that

[00:05:30] have these debates of of opinions within them. The god of life versus the god of death, it felt like. Right. And that was awesome. Well, that's yeah, that seemed to be the theme. Yeah.

[00:05:43] The doctor even said I after she said after Sue Tech said everything living thing is an abomination, the doctor said, I damn you, Sue Tech, in the name of life itself. So and I noticed people were there's a lot of symbolism for the doctor said, I pride

[00:05:57] myself in being better than you. If you're death, I'm life. You turned me into this. I'm the one who brings death. You win. And that's how he gets rid of Sue Tech. But do you think this god of life thing is intentional with the whole regeneration aspect

[00:06:11] of the doctor and immortality? Yeah, I'm still in the camp of if we're going with the timeless child thing, then the doctor is some kind of member of a pantheon. I think the doctor is part of the pantheon and this pantheon, the god of life. OK. Oh, yeah.

[00:06:28] Hmm. Do you agree as someone who watched Pyramids of Mars, the doctor called Sue Tech was like, oh, it's Sue Tech. You are the greatest enemy I ever fought. Does that strike true to you as someone who watched that episode?

[00:06:40] Did that feel like more monumental than other enemies? Here's the problem is that and Marilyn will will come and done this later, is that there is a standard doctor who formula of I don't know how I could possibly beat this enemy.

[00:06:55] OK, I figured out the trick that's going to beat this enemy. And that's just part of the conceit of the show that you just have to go with. And that's fine. I'm OK with them just throwing that phrase around.

[00:07:05] You're the toughest enemy I've ever faced as long as they don't do it too often. One thing that I will say that that may make Sue Tech a more formidable adversary than most is that he did effectively control the doctor, mind control the doctor.

[00:07:20] I don't think we've seen that very often. I think there was one Matt Smith thing where where the the cybermen kind of mind control them right. But that was less full and they didn't have to you know, they didn't have to attach anything

[00:07:35] to the doctor to control him when it's Sue Tech because the Sue Tech just does it through his spirit mind control powers. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's sort of because we think of the doctor as being an intelligent,

[00:07:50] you know, clever man, a brain above all else, then anyone who can best the doctor on in that regard, like with mental prowess, that does make them extra scary because that's kind of his strength. Right. And like you said, it's a strength.

[00:08:06] And the way he wins is often outsmarting. If he doesn't have his mind, he has no power at all, in my opinion, because he doesn't have super strength. He doesn't have super agility or anything. I don't have any superpowers other than being clever. Right, exactly.

[00:08:19] Yeah, well, he can regenerate. But you know what I mean? In his non regenerative state, he does not have any superpowers. Right. Anyway, that's that's that's my stick. I think it's fine to call him the the a formidable adversary, at least.

[00:08:41] And so I've split this episode up into about five main plot points. And so the first one is pretty obvious. You know, Sue Tech unleashes his dust of death everywhere the doctor has ever landed the TARDIS since the Tom Baker era.

[00:08:55] And I just want to bring in a comment that the doctor says later, which is I brought this I traveled to all these places because it was fun. I mean, I to me, I don't know how you feel, but that's the doctor selling himself short.

[00:09:10] He didn't just go there because it was fun. Right? No, he went. I mean, sometimes he landed there because it was fun. Yeah, right. And then something always happens. Right.

[00:09:18] Then you kind of have to wonder, OK, I always bring up the wheel of time, but you know who I am. But it just reminds me of like, you know, he can still he goes somewhere. It's like, let's go on vacation.

[00:09:28] And then it's like there's a bubble of evil. Just yeah, because he's Tavarin. Yeah, because he is an important being. Yeah. Yeah. It's like trouble comes to him. It's just drawn to him like gravity.

[00:09:43] Well, I'll have you know that David and I talked about the wheel of time on last night's House of the Dragon pod. Oh, awesome. Can't wait to hear it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:52] So so yeah, it's it's a similar thing to what the doctor said to Kate when she asked, why don't you go see your granddaughter? And he's like, well, I bring pain wherever I go. Yeah. You actually go and find pain and alleviate it. Yeah, I agree.

[00:10:11] Yeah, I still I'm frustrated with him about the granddaughter thing. Like I think it's lame that at the end of this episode, he says to Ruby as she's saying her goodbyes, which got me for a minute. I'm like, wait, she is coming back, right?

[00:10:22] No, she is coming back. A hundred percent. I said on the disc. I mean, it's gone as David Tennant. Yeah, no, it is confirmed in the doctor who unleashed episode two. But at first they're like, oh, and the goodbyes. I was like, what is going on?

[00:10:36] And then he's like, oh, yeah, but she's definitely coming back next season. Like, OK, well, fine. But just like he is basically placing her above his granddaughter. I'm like, you just met this girl, you know why? I just think he's been terrible to his granddaughter.

[00:10:52] And if his granddaughter does turn out to be a villain, then I understand. Yeah. And he also I think I mentioned this before, but he promised his granddaughter he would come back. Mm hmm. Yeah. He locked her out of the TARDIS. Oh, my God.

[00:11:07] I promise I'll come back one day. Yeah. And she's like, super villain behavior. Yeah. He left her stranded. Also by the way, stranded after a Dalek invasion of Earth. And they did beat the Daleks. But like the Earth is destroyed from all their activities.

[00:11:23] And he's like, oh, but she's in love with the guy she met two days ago. So I'm going to leave her here. She's better off here. That was very 1960s writing. That's all I'll say. Well, that's why he's choosing someone he met two days ago. I mean, fine.

[00:11:38] I know he and Ruby have been together longer, but. But yeah, I so I thought that I really liked the opening sequence of this. You know, I just the growing dread where you realize like guns and lasers do nothing but pause.

[00:11:55] I thought Kate's death was really sad, although at the same time, it was the moment that I knew the whole thing was going to be reversed, especially when, you know, although the other I was like, oh, Rose is gone. Oh, Carla's gone. Yeah, no, this is right.

[00:12:08] But I did. I thought Kate's death was really well played. But I didn't understand. I have to hope birds will sing again. There will be birds that must be a reference to something that I don't know or remember. I don't know either. I couldn't.

[00:12:23] I just thought it was a weird line. But maybe you're right. Maybe that would make a lot more sense to me if it is a reference to something. And there was certainly a ton of references to classic in this episode.

[00:12:31] I mean, that whole let's let's get into that next scene just to talk about it. The doctor, Ruby and Mel escape on an imagined TARDIS, eventually finding a single surviving woman on a desolate planet.

[00:12:44] The doctor uses a spoon to ground the TARDIS last time window fusion into a real memory, allowing Ruby to see Roger William. The doctor and Ruby determined they must go to William's time and search the mandatory

[00:12:59] DNA testing results for the name of Ruby's mom, which is sought by both Ruby and Sue Deck. So I kind of glossed over the Kate scene there. But but there's so many trinkets within the TARDIS.

[00:13:12] And I recognize some of them because I've watched some of classic who but I did certainly didn't recognize all. And you could see Mel picking things up with such admiration and nostalgia. Yeah. Great. What was it called?

[00:13:24] I couldn't tell if they were calling it the remember TARDIS or the remembered TARDIS. I think it was remembered. Okay. I guess that makes sense. But I kind of remember TARDIS is cute. It's the new member berries. Yeah, right. Yeah.

[00:13:38] But yeah, I mean, it was really fun to see like Tom Baker's scarf was in there, right? And I mean, that's probably the most iconic item in all of Doctor Who after the sonic screwdriver and the TARDIS, obviously.

[00:13:52] Yeah, it was a nice Easter egg trove that I couldn't even begin to mine. But yeah, I think there was a lot of fun. I like it was held together by hopes and wishes and luck.

[00:14:02] It reminded me of the way he talks about the language of ropes in the Christmas special, which I like. And I thought there was some beautiful Davies poetry in here. Like if time is a memory, the memory is a time machine. Yeah, that was that was really nice.

[00:14:17] I think something that Dave is really good at is writing a very sing songy dialogue. Yeah, a very, very poetic dialogue. And here we have that. We've got I don't want to go kind of stuff. Right? Yeah.

[00:14:36] The other line that I really liked was, I mean, this is from a little later, but it says somewhere out there in the desolate hollows of the universe, they are hiding in the winds and the wilds. That's like the beginning of a bedtime story.

[00:14:48] Yeah, where the wild things are. So can I ask you, Mel, obviously, you didn't watch her run. I haven't even watched her run yet. But do you think that they utilized her well in this?

[00:15:02] Because one of the things about Mel is that her actor, I can't remember it off the top of my head. I'm very sorry. Her actor said, I took that role because Mel was was described as a computer programmer

[00:15:13] and I wanted young girls to see, you know, a woman in that role in the 1970s, 1980s. And then she didn't touch a computer once in her whole original run. And she finally did here. Right. And I don't even remember her touching a computer in this.

[00:15:31] So that's not what I would. Yeah. I do think she expressed some mental fortitude and some some intelligence here. And that is at least a step up. Well, so I liked I didn't I obviously I haven't watched like I haven't watched Pyramids of

[00:15:50] Mars and stuff, but I like the fact that she was back to continue her storyline. And I know her importance because people like my friend Simon, who we talked to and she's not in Pyramids of Mars. Oh, she's not. That's not her. Oh, no, that's Sarah Jane Smith.

[00:16:04] Oh, oh, right. OK. OK. Don't don't don't get added. I'm saving you. Well, yeah, no, I freely admit. I have not watched that stuff. But anyway, I do know that of the late six and early seventh doctor.

[00:16:17] OK, well, I do know Mel is like one of the important ones people get really excited about. And I like I liked her line. There's nothing I can do here except to fight.

[00:16:26] But then but then, yeah, when they made her like be possessed, that felt like a little bit of a disservice. Yeah, well, I don't know, because I did enjoy that she was able to resist Sutek longer than most.

[00:16:41] Why wouldn't they want to possess Ruby then if, you know, if she's the one with the secret that he wants? I love, by the way, that like Sutek just kept them alive because he needed the tea. You know? Well, I think to possess someone needs to.

[00:16:55] Well, no, actually, it's not true that he needs to kill somebody. No, he said it was just dead cells was enough. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. I don't know. That's a good question. Maybe maybe because she needed the knowledge of Ruby.

[00:17:09] Like like Ruby was the one with the weird snow thing. Ruby was the one able to conjure the memory. Right. But then I think he couldn't just be like possess her and make her say things or something or tell it, take her memory. I don't know.

[00:17:23] There's no rule. I don't know. That's true. I got I got I got to stop doing that. Yeah, you're right. Mm hmm. This is not the wheel of time. You're not going to make it fit together. Just no. So yeah. OK. Anyway, I enjoyed that.

[00:17:39] I think it looked like the actor was having a really fun time in like the the Sutec Death Warrior makeup. Mm hmm. You could you could tell she was having a blast doing this.

[00:17:50] I think, you know, she I think she she seems to have been disappointed with her original who run and I'm glad that she was able to come back and feel like like she got a real shot this time.

[00:18:01] I mean, she was yeah, she was in Doctor Who during its decline. The seventh Doctor was was the decline era. OK, yeah. That's right before it was canceled. Executives at the BBC didn't really like it. And and she also was basically known for screaming really well.

[00:18:19] Like that was that was her thing. She just had a lot of screams. She didn't have a lot of like poignant dialogue or anything like that. So finally we have her getting lines like there's nothing we can do except fight. Right.

[00:18:31] You know, I just think this is this is a great thing that R.T.D. is doing, and I hope he does that with more older companions. A lot of older companions are still alive. I mean, we saw that in the power of the doctor.

[00:18:42] They had their little support group. Mm hmm. We even have Ian, the companion of one of the first companions of the first doctor. He's still alive. Yeah. No, I think that's great. And it's. Yeah, just do because it doesn't you know, I've never been bothered by them bringing

[00:18:59] in anything from because the entire show is built on decades of TV that I didn't watch and hope maybe someday I'll do what you're doing. But I still think it's a lot of fun to have these past things show up, and it makes me

[00:19:12] more likely to want to watch the older episodes. Yeah. And it it makes it feel more lived in, right, that there is a history that the doctor doesn't just forget about older people. Right. Anyway, I'm I'm enjoying Mel. That was my main point. Mm hmm.

[00:19:30] Did you like this whole Williams thing and the 73 yards callback? What's going on with that? Well, I mean, that seems to be a an unfinished thing that they're dangling, you know, because now they mentioned a couple of times.

[00:19:45] So now we know the perception filter of the TARDIS is exactly sixty six point seven meters, which they said something last episode. They said something was in a shed that distance away, which immediately like, OK, that's 73 yards. So they're teasing us. I think that this is not this.

[00:20:04] You know, we don't have all the answers to that. This is not over. We have a hint what might be involved. But yeah, we still also don't know, like about the snow and the song that comes with Ruby. Yeah.

[00:20:19] And just the fact that this Roger Aquilium keeps coming back. I have a feeling that's going to turn up again and also because of the actor. What's his name? Arnearn Barnard, something like that. Oh, I don't speak Welsh. I don't do that. No, he's he was in 1899.

[00:20:38] And anyway, he's he's he's like a higher profile actor that I feel like they would want to build a bigger character around him, like he'll be back again. And I feel like this this plot point about DNA testing being compulsory then could be convenient in the future, too.

[00:20:56] I agree with that. I think there's a lot of unresolved questions around Ruby. And I mean, not just the snow in the song, but why was her mother wearing Damon's murder cloak? Why did she point? So here's the thing.

[00:21:10] I'm not and not just why did she point, but why did she not point originally? But when the doctor's memory changed in space, right, then she pointed right. That does not make sense if she's just a normal person.

[00:21:21] And one theory I've seen pushed around is, you know, I mentioned earlier, like maybe there's a storyteller going on, a member of the pantheon. And Mrs. Flood is increasingly looking like that character. I mean, look at the way she talks at the end of the episode.

[00:21:34] She's like, oh, his tale ends in tragedy and she speaks to which he breaks the fourth wall. I think very well could be the storyteller. And maybe she felt like it was time to wrap up or be stories.

[00:21:46] So she wrote her mother and father and they didn't exist before that. Oh, maybe she did. She said to Cherry right before. So we found out she's definitely not with Sue Tech because Sue Tech also made her crumble with the dust of death.

[00:21:59] But she said to Cherry, do you believe in the power of power of prayers? Then tell your maker I will come to storm down his gates of gold and seize his kingdom in my true name. And then she says, sorry, you tiny little human. It ends like this.

[00:22:13] I had such plans. So hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Something she's going to challenge God. And there's a true name, which we need to know. And there were such plans. Yeah. Very messy, but the true name.

[00:22:32] And then Cherry did not tell her daughter or anyone else that like, oh, by the way, Mrs. Flood was real weird earlier before. But I guess she was distracted by the whole we all died and came back thing. It could be that or it could be that.

[00:22:46] Well, here's one thing. Was it like undone? Like, were they not just reconstituted, but did it undo the fact that they were dusted? I mean, but they were still when they came out of the dust, they were in the same position

[00:22:58] they went into the dust, you know, like cradled together. So OK, I was after she said all that stuff. OK, fair enough. Fair enough. I accept it. Yeah, that's a great question. That's a great question.

[00:23:12] I think she said something, but they were like, oh, Grandma Cherry, you had the wrong tea. Don't worry about it. Right. I told you not to be on the show like that. Oh, she's so sweet. Don't worry about her. Hmm. Yeah. Maybe she'll bring it up later.

[00:23:23] Maybe, you know, to be fair, maybe she was just distracted by like, oh, the whole world ended and now it unended. You know, that's the whole thing. Yeah. What did you think about people being transported by Harbinger lever? By Harbinger lever? Yeah.

[00:23:40] At one point, the Harbinger just like flicked a lever and people were transported outside the TARDIS to come back to headquarters. Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. OK. All right. I don't know how that would work.

[00:23:57] I mean, I did just finish a classic who thing where the doctor takes the whole console out of the TARDIS and then just transport people in the vicinity. OK, so. All right. That's precedent. Yeah, I think that's that's possible. There's like a range of it.

[00:24:09] It doesn't have to be inside the TARDIS. OK. Anyway, so let's let's move on to. Oh, and actually, I want to talk about the spoon lady. How sad was that? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:21] I wonder if she might if we might see her again just because they gave us so many details about her, you know, like her daughter's Brindle D. She's on this Agua Centia planet.

[00:24:34] Yeah, I don't know if they just felt it felt I thought at first I thought she was going to be Ruby's mother, but then of her daughter's name, Brindle D. Fine. But it just felt like the way they introduced her was with portents and then the way they

[00:24:48] went back to her at the end, which, you know, makes sense to wrap it up. But it just felt like someone we might see again. Yeah. And I did look it up. It's not a planet that's previously visited by the doctor.

[00:25:00] And also the thing about remembering an opera house like that seems significant. Like I remember an opera house. I wonder if we're going to go back and they're going to. Yeah. Ooh, ooh, could be. Mm hmm. I don't know. Got any metal? Metal's precious. I don't know.

[00:25:15] Just yeah, I keep thinking about her dialogue. Yeah, it was very oddly specific. You're right. But then again, we've dropped the Mavity thing. So who knows? Well, have we? They didn't say gravity, did they? I think they said gravity at one point this season.

[00:25:30] They've said Mavity at least once this season. I think a couple times. So I don't think they dropped it. I don't know. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. Maybe they're just avoiding it because they're trying to make you forget about it.

[00:25:41] You know, I've seen some criticism of this where people said that rather than twist, they felt like they were a little bit betrayed by this ending, where it just felt like they sidestepped so many of the questions raised. Right. I don't know.

[00:25:55] I'm willing to wait till Christmas and to season two to see how those questions are answered. I don't think if RTD really does like never answer the why does it snow around Ruby, then that's stupid. I'll just say it. Yeah.

[00:26:08] But but I don't think that we can close the door on that yet. No, it seems like the story isn't over. And the fact that like Mrs. Flood was showed up looking like the Snow Queen with snow.

[00:26:18] Yeah, that feels like we're going to find out more at Christmas. Right. All right, let's move on to Mel. She's taken over by Sue Tech and lures the group back to her boss, Ruby and the doctor

[00:26:30] trick Sue Tech into letting Ruby close enough to leash him onto the TARDIS. The doctor drags Sue Tech through the time vortex, declaring himself life and restoring the lives Sue Tech took throughout time. We kind of talked about this, but I really do love that.

[00:26:45] He say he says you've made me the one who brings death. Right. Because life brings death. That's that's right. The circle of life. Right. It's like the bug bug was bug of Vita. Sorry, bug of Vita. I am become the bringer of what is it?

[00:27:01] The famous Oppenheimer quote. It's anyway, I am become death destroyer of life. But he's life bringer of death. So they're opposites. Right. Right. But then does that mean that if you kill death, doesn't that mean that people become immortal, which is has a lot of problems?

[00:27:22] No, people have been talking about this. Death existed while Sue Tech was chained up to while Sue Tech was was completely unable to use his powers at all. But Sue Tech was alive. So I guess but Sue Tech's not dead.

[00:27:34] We just saw Sue Tech like just disappear off into the vortex again. Also Sue Tech isn't really a god in the traditional sense that the Osirians were presented as aliens in Pyramids of Mars. They're just really, really powerful aliens. Right. Right. Exactly. And also it's the pantheon. So.

[00:27:53] I don't know. It's been wrecked. Again, what are the rules? Whatever Russell says. Right. Right. But also, yeah, the rules also for coming back like I had to wonder, I was like, well, didn't planes crash when everyone suddenly turned to dust and didn't? I don't know.

[00:28:13] Didn't like it just seems like some people would stay dead. But yeah, I've got to stop. I think this was a problem with this episode for me is normally with Doctor Who, I'm able to just disengage that part of my brain because it's not about that.

[00:28:32] You know, it's about thinking about the metaphor, about the story. And for this, it kind of it was like the reveal, like, oh, here's all the details that I've been hiding. And then I'm like, well, but these pieces of this puzzle aren't fitting together for me. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:51] I hear you on that one. I was able to turn my brain off. I was, again, a little bit disappointed that certain questions were sidestepped. But at the same time, again, I'm willing to give RTD the benefit of the doubt.

[00:29:02] I just wish I think some of these were a one season arc. I think the snow thing is a one season arc. I don't I don't think that has the legs to go to a second season. So again, minor critiques overall, a really enjoyable season.

[00:29:15] I don't think that this episode really closed it out satisfactorily. Right. Yeah, I think that's the thing is it's also just because I feel like the the you know, especially the episodes leading up to this were so strong that I was like, oh, wow. Right. Yeah.

[00:29:32] And this season was stronger than any of the 13th Doctor season. Like, yeah, I'll say that right away. Like the highs of this season. And that's but again, that's always been RTD. Right. It's always got high highs and low lows. Yeah. Guy has bummer episodes.

[00:29:48] I mean, yeah, but I kind of he's so on Doctor Who Unleashed, Davies said that he's been thinking about Sue Tech hanging on to the TARDIS ever since the Pyramids of Mars aired 48 years ago. So I love for him that he got to bring that to life.

[00:30:06] And I love this whole Pantheon thing that they've set up this season. And I think they've set up a lot of great things. It just didn't maybe deliver the answers that we were hoping for. And I don't mind the happy ending, you know? Yeah. We'll see.

[00:30:24] Did you see the original effect for Sue Tech coming through the portal? Yes. Because they they redid that. Yeah. It looks much worse in the original. Right. It doesn't look great, honestly, how it is now because he's just like motionless moving.

[00:30:40] But it looks much better than it did. I'll say that. Okay. Okay. I do think, by the way, about the mother reveal that it reminded me of, you know, I'm going to spoil sequel trilogy Star Wars now.

[00:30:57] It reminded me of the Rey reveal, you know, the one that Rian Johnson tried to do that. Yeah. It's not real. Yeah, it's not. I mean, I think he would have kept it that way if he got to do the third movie.

[00:31:15] But yeah, the Rey's parents were nobodies. And that reveal, I liked the idea of it in The Last Jedi, but it didn't necessarily hit for me because I was also like, oh, I don't know. It felt like a fake out to me at the time.

[00:31:31] So this one, it might actually also be a fake out, but it felt like I just liked how it was done better than the Rey reveals, what I'm trying to say. I liked the idea of, you know, just pointing out that things are important because we invest

[00:31:44] significance in them. Like I always think about people like, oh, why is it always the protagonist survives because the protagonist has plot armor? But another way of approaching it is to say the only reason we're telling this story is because the protagonist survives. Right.

[00:31:59] Yeah, I think that's fair. So I like that. I agree with you. It was better done than the Rey reveal. I also am thinking that, again, I'm on team. These are artificially created humans just like Susan Twist. Yeah.

[00:32:17] Why wouldn't they find her in Boom when they were testing Ruby's DNA and they're like, no one found? Yeah, that's a good question. Again, I don't maybe they didn't exist. Maybe Mrs. Blood was like, yeah, all right, I'll give her a mom and dad now.

[00:32:30] She's a nice girl. Yeah. Yeah, I am coming to that like where we have to remember if the answers don't seem satisfactory and we know there's more coming, then maybe that's why we don't have all the answers yet. Yeah. All right. All right.

[00:32:47] I do wonder if, you know, since there's been some commentary about the adoption story and, you know, the Ruby searching for her mom and now now, yeah, her mom didn't want to find her.

[00:33:00] But then when Ruby found her mom, her mom was like, oh, I'm so glad actually. And I can imagine that there'd be people out there who are like, no, I don't want kids to think that. Well, all right.

[00:33:14] So so I have to bring in personal experience now because I am someone who is the product of sperm donation and I discovered that in my 20s and I did I haven't actually spoken to my donor, but I've spoken to his kid. Right.

[00:33:29] And we have we actually have a good relationship, me and my sister. But you know, I discovered these people through technology that did not exist at the time of the donation. Right. I discover them. Right. Twenty three and me.

[00:33:45] These kinds of consumer DNA testing kits were not did not exist. Were not widespread until recently. And I just would not have been able to find these people without that. Is it unfair for me to reach out to people just because that technology didn't exist at the time?

[00:34:03] I don't think so. I think I would say no choices. I think people make their choices and there are consequences to those choices such as human life. And you know, he's not you know, these people aren't obligated to have relationships with us. Right.

[00:34:18] I don't think we're in the wrong for reaching out. No. And I didn't mean to suggest that if it came across that way. No, no, no. I'm actually combating the doctor who goes, well, you found you found them through DNA testing with time travel.

[00:34:30] And I'm like, OK, but you met her time travel. Right. If the doctor dismissed things because you did it through time travel, then that then the whole series wouldn't exist. Right. He basically started stalking her because some goblins were and he wanted to know what was up. Right.

[00:34:46] And and so I think that this was and I think this was good writing, actually, as much as I disagree with the doctor there. I think it was good writing because it showed how emotionally repressed he is, that he assumes

[00:35:00] that it's better to leave people alone than it is to forge relationship. And Ruby says, screw that. She's right there. I'm going to go say hi to her. And and everyone's happy with it. Right. Like relationship was formed and a positive impact happened.

[00:35:14] And I I wonder if the doctor is going to think about that or discuss it more with her because we know she's coming back or discuss it more with Ruby and decide, OK, maybe I should go see Susan.

[00:35:26] She doesn't have to come with me, but maybe I should go visit her. Well, it feels like with all the attention she got this season, they have to address that next season. They have to do something on that front. If they don't, that's just embarrassing. Don't do that.

[00:35:42] Don't do that. You don't tease us like that. And apparently on Doctor Who Unleashed, RTD said that Ruby's dad will also show up next season. Hmm. The one they found at the end of this episode. I'm into it. Hmm. I'm into it. So mystery definitely not over. Absolutely.

[00:36:06] Hmm. So you were saying, by the way, about Nicola Coughlin, the you know, the actress from Bridgerton and from what's it called? Derry Girl. Derry Girl. Yeah. So now they showed in the preview she's in the Christmas special. Oh, I haven't seen the preview. That's cool.

[00:36:24] I love her. I think she's so funny. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't like a preview preview. They just kind of actually showed her showing up for filming, I think. OK. And you're teasing a unit spinoff here in the notes.

[00:36:38] Well, yeah, I was just asking, like, because this is something that's been long rumored in the fact that we spent two episodes here. And now, yeah, I love that Kate will just like hire anyone who shows up except Carla, apparently. So now Susan Twist or sorry, Susan.

[00:36:53] What's her name in the show? Not TARDIS. She is Susan Twist, right? But that's her real name. That's the actress. Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. I can't remember now. No, Susan something. She's she's now working for UNED.

[00:37:11] But yeah, would you want to watch a unit spinoff if it happened with the characters that we saw in like the last two episodes? Basically, I guess I'm always of the opinion that anything can be done well.

[00:37:23] Like I was skeptical of I'm often skeptical of a spinoff, but then they turn out well. I'm OK with it. If you want to do it, then go ahead. I'm not like super clamoring for it, but I probably I definitely watch it.

[00:37:35] Oh, and she's Susan Triad, by the way. Susan Triad. OK, there we go. Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm the same. I'm like, if you want to do a spinoff, that's not necessarily the first thing I would personally choose.

[00:37:47] But if you're going to put it on the air, I will be watching it. Yeah, definitely. I would I will watch anything universe as they're calling it on the BBC stuff now. Yeah. Well, we got to do the Sarah Jane adventures and the eighth Doctor movie.

[00:38:02] I want to watch a doctor movie. I don't know if I want to do Sarah Jane adventures. Why? It looks it looks pretty bad. I'm like, oh boy, the effects are not there. Hmm. There are so many more seasons than I thought. Oh boy. All right.

[00:38:18] Well, why don't we bring in the other thoughts of people? OK, if you want to send in feedback, you can write into Tardis at the lorehounds dot com. You can go to the lorehounds dot com and leave a voicemail or contact form entry, or you

[00:38:32] could just tag us on the discord like many people did. We've got three voicemails to from the same person, from your sister. Mm hmm. Yeah. So we've got voicemails from on the both ends of the spectrum.

[00:38:48] So we've got my sister's new new whovian for those who didn't listen to our breakdown of the first three episodes of the season. This is her like very first exposure to Doctor Who. So she's checking in on. Yeah. Just what did she think of this season?

[00:39:03] And is she going to keep going? Cool. Here we go. Hi, Alicia and John. Alicia's sister Ashley here, and I'm calling to give an update on my thoughts on Doctor Who as a complete newbie who has seen no Doctor Who before this current season with the 15th Doctor.

[00:39:28] So I had previously left a message after watching only the Christmas special, and I mentioned in it that my expectations were shifted with that episode because I understood that it was meant to be a little more of a silly show, more lighthearted than I was expecting originally

[00:39:45] going into it. However, that did not prepare me. I felt for Space Babies, I did not like that episode. I found it really dumb. I didn't like the baby CGI talking and the snot was gross. I thought the farting solution was stupid.

[00:40:10] It just all felt really kind of immature, and I was a bit disappointed because I was thinking I don't think I'm going to like this show. I think it's too goofy for me, and maybe I would have appreciated the humor more if I

[00:40:22] had gotten into it when I was younger. I don't know if that would have made a difference, but I was not feeling very appreciative of the show with episode one. That being said, the next episode, The Devil's Chord, got me right into it.

[00:40:36] I thought that villain, the actor who played that villain did a phenomenal job. Just really a memorable villain with the behavior and the faces they made. I was really excited because it also took a bit of a darker turn.

[00:40:57] It was a little eerier, which especially grew as the season went on. It was still lighthearted and fun, which I realized is definitely a part of it from what I'm seeing and what I hear.

[00:41:12] But I was happy that there were more serious episodes, a lot of serious or more somber moments, some pretty scary stuff throughout or scary and even intense situations that they got themselves in. So overall, I did like it.

[00:41:32] It felt like a bit of a roller coaster with a lot of different emotions packed in. But I felt that, especially in Shuti, did a really great job as a doctor. I have nothing to compare it to. So I just appreciate how he played the role currently.

[00:41:50] I thought he put a lot of emotion behind it, not just because he cried every episode. But he really felt incaptivating to me and made me want to watch him and his reactions and to kind of experience his journeys along with him.

[00:42:10] So I think my favorite episode was 73 Yards. It felt different from the rest of them, and I liked the uniqueness of it. It was a little weird that the doctor wasn't really in most of it, but it did feel like

[00:42:26] an interesting sidestep and then fast-forwarding through someone's life of almost like what it would be like without him. Although I don't know that he'll always be in her life. But it also had a bit of a haunting horror theme to it with the woman always there and

[00:42:46] Ruby not understanding why until the end. And I thought it was a really unique way that she used that, I don't know how to, like not stationary but that ever present but ever far. Semper distant.

[00:43:02] Kind of haunt as a benefit, you know, with the prime minister and everything. So anyway, I thought it was really well done. I also thought it had really pretty scenery. But as I think Alicia's mentioned, our family is Welsh.

[00:43:14] So I think I'm drawn to some part of me is drawn to that when I see it. The biggest things I learned about the doctor in the show. First off, I'll say that I'm correcting myself from my last recording.

[00:43:26] I understand now that he travels in a police box, not a phone booth. Although is a police box not just a phone booth for police? I actually still don't know exactly what they are. So there's that. But I learned that he's a Thai Lord.

[00:43:42] He's definitely not a doctor of any sort. And that I guess he's aware of his previous existences. It's all the same person, I understand. But he seemed to have his memories about him, which I guess I wasn't sure going into

[00:44:00] it if different actors meant somehow he had been reborn into a new soul and maybe or maybe not had his memories. But that seemed confirmed that he does. The show definitely seems whimsical, which I think was a theme throughout in which I

[00:44:18] know my fiance Jose mentioned that he had heard that about it going into it. So he had slightly different expectations than I did, which I think helped him. He enjoyed the show as well. I'm a little curious about Unit.

[00:44:38] I feel like I didn't get a huge grasp of their role or at least how well they know the doctor and maybe I could know more about a little bit of their history together and

[00:44:51] why he seemed to really care about them in the last couple episodes more than I realized he would when he ran into them. I don't know. They seemed like a bigger deal to him than the show made it seem. So I'm curious about that.

[00:45:05] That being said, I know Alicia asked if there was a spinoff, would I watch it about Unit? And I would say right now, no, only because I just got into this world of Doctor Who and

[00:45:17] I feel like that's something that I may appreciate more once I have a bigger understanding of the whole universe. I think that Unit will probably introduce a bunch of different phenomenon that I think

[00:45:35] I would appreciate more if I knew what types of things the doctor had gotten involved with and what types of creatures and beings he's experienced in the past because I have a feeling that would strengthen the story and my connection to it.

[00:45:49] So I don't think I'd watch that right now, but if I keep watching Doctor Who, if I happen to go back to past Who's, then I could see myself branching out into more of this universe

[00:45:59] because it is fun and I can see how they leave it so open that they can change anything at any time. It seems like especially from what I've heard and in part from listening to your podcast. But I am excited to see the next season.

[00:46:15] I'm glad to hear they've already filmed it and I will definitely be watching. I hope to see more of Rogue because I really enjoyed that little romance and it seemed very passionate and intense and I'd love to see if there's anything more there, especially

[00:46:33] because it seemed like it left off with like a, you know, it was like, come find me. So I hope he finds him. And I look forward to the variety of it all and how each episode, it's not like this

[00:46:50] same repeated structure of the adventures they go on. It seems like each one is pretty unique in its own way. And I also really like the uniqueness of the villains. And so I look forward to seeing what else they can come up with.

[00:47:04] That's something I would never think of, like with maestro using music and ruining the world by stealing all the music. So thank you, Alicia, for suggesting that I watch this show. I really appreciate you always get me to read and watch the good stuff.

[00:47:22] I don't know where I'd be without you. So thank you very much. And thank you to both of you for this podcast. This has been my intro into Lorehounds and I am loving listening to you. So I look forward to what's more to come.

[00:47:37] And that's all I got. Talk to you soon. Bye. Well, your sister is a lovely person. That was that was a very nice voicemail. And I also will say, I think if you two had a podcast together, it would be four hours long each episode.

[00:47:51] I could see you bouncing off each other. Yeah, we have thoughts. Well, I mean, we yeah, we did. We did the one for the fall of the House of Usher. And I think that was close to three. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, it's great content, though.

[00:48:07] And I really appreciate her writing. And I know she had a second voicemail. So have you listened to both already? Yes. Are they related enough where I should play this before we respond in full? I think it's a different concept. I actually forget what was in the.

[00:48:22] OK, all right. All right. So let's let's respond to this. I'm glad that we could help on board you because, yeah, it's very important to know, like the doctor's face changes and he retains the memories, but he has maybe a different personality.

[00:48:36] And what else was the police box? That's a funny distinction. I like that she was like, oh, well, isn't it just a telephone box for for police? I mean, isn't it, though? Yeah, it is. It's just you can only call one person. Right.

[00:48:50] I think that's why they didn't implement them in the US, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. They were like, this seems like a waste of taxpayer money. Three digits. Yeah. Right. Right. Any other thoughts on her first voicemail?

[00:49:05] I mean, I actually I was just thinking as she was speaking about spin offs that like Torchwood is the one that I think she would like. But then, you know, she has to go back and watch the Jack Hart Harkness introduction on Doctor Who.

[00:49:17] So I did tell her I said the next thing, you know, she should go watch after this if she feels like it is the 60th anniversary special, because that's also on Disney. And, you know, and it ties directly into with the Toymaker and everything. Neil Patrick Harris.

[00:49:31] Yeah, I think that's a good suggestion. The 60th. And then if if she's still liking it, I would say just go back to Eccleston and start there. Right. Yeah. You know, something that she mentioned was curious about the relationship with the unit and the history.

[00:49:45] It's funny because I saw a Reddit post that I agree with, which is I miss the doctor's contentious relationship with unit. And what I mean by that is the doctor in the third doctor era where he really starts working with the unit more.

[00:50:00] He is like frenemies with the Brigadier. Right. Like, he's like he loves the guy and the guys in their loyalty to each other. But he also like hates him as a boss. You can tell he's like he's like constantly threatening to quit. He's constantly his.

[00:50:14] The whole thing is, his TARDIS doesn't work because the time where it's disabled it. So he's constantly trying to fix his TARDIS to escape. And yeah, I love the finale of season. It's a season in classic of season seven.

[00:50:29] I think it is where the doctor tries to go away and he's like, bye, Brigadier. This is my resignation. And then he comes back like a couple minutes later and they're like, where did you go?

[00:50:39] He's like, oh yeah, I accidentally landed on top of like the waste plant a mile away. Can you send some people to go get it for me? Fun stuff anyway.

[00:50:50] But I do like I do like when the doctor is like kind of a curmudgeon and a little bit contentious with everybody that that is one thing I miss with Shruti's doctor is sorry

[00:50:59] Shruti's doctor is that I think he's so friendly with everyone that I kind of miss the doctor being a dick sometimes. I don't know. I mean, my other favorite doctor is Matt Smith. And I would say that he wasn't a dick either.

[00:51:14] He was also like an earnest puppy. And I like that in a doctor. Yeah, he was he was rude sometimes though. Right? Like he was callous sometimes. And I don't think that Shruti is like that at all. Okay. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

[00:51:26] I think it's just a right take on the doctor. I don't know. I like it. He in Shruti might be in contention for my favorite. It's too soon to say, but he's well on the way there. All right, so let's listen to Ashley's other voicemail.

[00:51:38] Okay, so actually, that wasn't all I got because I forgot a pretty important piece of feedback, which is that I was not thrilled by the ending. Figured I would share that I was pretty disappointed by the reveal about Ruby's mom and then they

[00:51:55] just found her and everything was all perfect and happy. It felt really unrealistic and weird and like forced and rushed. And it also felt like it took away a lot of the appeal of the suspense leading up to this big thing. And then it was like, honestly, nothing.

[00:52:13] And I also still don't fully understand why Ruby caused snow just by thinking about this memory. So that I felt was a pretty weird ending. I was not surprised though, that he said goodbye to her because I understand that he has different companions.

[00:52:30] So I look forward to seeing the next companion and how their relationship may hopefully differs from the one he had with Ruby because I imagine each season or each relationship will be unique. So looking forward to that.

[00:52:48] But yeah, in the end, I was kind of bummed out by how they wrapped things up. Anyway, sorry to go out on a down note, but. I don't think that you're alone, Ashley, in.

[00:53:01] Your disappointment with some of the mysteries, I mean, we you know, you're not alone if you listen to this whole podcast, I think we were both you and I, Alicia, were right, sort of had our quibbles with it, too. I don't I would say stick with it.

[00:53:14] I don't think this is done. And also, you weren't alone, Ashley, and not liking Space Babies. I think that was probably the lowest rated episode of the whole season for everybody. Those who have watched a long time and not watch whoever before.

[00:53:28] Right. Well, you know who else did not like Space Babies is our our friend and OG who Vian who grew up watching it. So. All right, here we go. Hello, Alicia. So here it is, my views of Doctor Who series one or is it series 16 or 15?

[00:53:52] I'm not even sure. I'm not even sure. OK, so firstly, the church on Ruby Road, I guess that was part of it. The church Ruby Road was brilliant, thoroughly entertaining, very different, a new look, a new direction. I loved it.

[00:54:09] And I think Ruby was already proving to be an absolutely fabulous companion. Space Babies, the less said about that, the better. That was pretty poor by any anyone's standards. It was really not a good start to the series.

[00:54:26] I thought the Devil's Chord, the Devil's Chord, I thought was a masterpiece. I thought it was thought provoking, entertaining until the twist at the end. The musical number for me ruined it. But I did enjoy that episode.

[00:54:45] Boom was an absolute classic, a real return to form, unpredictable, exciting, everything that you'd want in Doctor Who, followed by 73 Yards, which was just a complete edge of deceit thriller, kind of it combined the genres of sci-fi, thriller, horror. It was all there. It was spooky.

[00:55:12] It didn't make much sense. The resolution didn't really make much sense, but it was brilliant. Loved it. Dot and Bubble, that was Doctor Who does, what's it called? Black Mirror. Doctor Who does Black Mirror. And yeah, it was pretty good.

[00:55:32] But you know, it's kind of, I think most of most Doctor Who fans will also watch Dot and Bubble, will watch Dot and Bubble or watch Black Mirror. And I thought it was, yeah, pretty much a pastiche on Black Mirror, but it was still pretty entertaining.

[00:55:48] Rogue, I'd give Rogue 10 out of 10. Rogue was just, had everything. Great production values. Yeah. Great villains. Really good. The Legend of Ruby Sunday was part one, the first episode, The Legend of Ruby Sunday, the reunion, the meeting unit again. Great. You know, really exciting, fabulous cliffhanger, great reveal.

[00:56:15] And finally Empire of Death, which great production values as we've come to expect with this Disney plus BBC combination. Very exciting. Really enjoyed it. However, the reveal of that Ruby's mother was basically just, you know, just an average person. Okay.

[00:56:38] You can never say nurses are above average people in general, but the fact that Ruby's mother wasn't Susan, wasn't an alien, was basically just there all the time. That was a letdown. But I did enjoy the resolution with, with, uh, with the villain, Sutek.

[00:56:56] I thought that was, that was great. Uh, the only other thing I would say is I wish they would, I hope in the next series that there'll be less of a doctor crying, you know, I think you sparingly,

[00:57:07] it has an impact, but it appears to be almost every episode he's in tears. I mean, I think, yeah, that's not ideal, but overall, if I look at this series, I thoroughly enjoyed the series overall. It's not all doom and gloom.

[00:57:21] I'm amazed at how negative Doctor Who fandom has been over the empire of death. People are really going to town on it. I mean, I mean, guys, I think a lot of Doctor Who fans, we've forgotten how bad

[00:57:36] it was in the John Nathan Turner era, the final few series with Sylvester McCoy as the doctor, but even with Colin Baker, there's a doctor, there are a lot of very appalling stories, tacky production values, very poor quality.

[00:57:52] So, you know, I still would say that this series is far superior to the last few, the last two or three series of old who, and I think it's still up to the standards of new who. Thank you very much. So thanks for your thoughts, Simon.

[00:58:12] It was nice to hear your voice again, since we chatted in the, um, you know, in the sixties, yeah, yeah, yeah. A while ago. Yeah, no, it's interesting how much, um, he and my sister might be on opposite

[00:58:25] ends of the spectrum in terms of experience with this property, but they agreed on a lot. Right. I totally agree with that. That's, that's pretty funny. Yeah. I don't think that, I think that the weaknesses of this season are not tied to

[00:58:39] it being doctor who I think they're just production issues. They're just general TV quality issues and that's normal and that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, um, yeah, some of these, I think it also just goes to show that when it works, doctor who is really universal, you know,

[00:58:55] it connects with people who don't know all of the decades of history. Right. Right. Totally. All right. Well, we've got a few more pieces of feedback, so let's do those quickly. We've got, uh, Arthur H writing it about his Oklahoma reference saying, uh,

[00:59:15] uh, the farmers and ranchers were feuding throughout the play. There was a barn raising dance where the song was the farmer and the cowboy should be friendly. Okay. That's fun. That's I, yeah, I, uh, completely forgot about that song and my father would be

[00:59:29] ashamed of me, but yeah, sorry. Well, thanks Arthur. That was fun. Cabin boy. Hashtag what? What are, okay. It's a Twitter name, sir. Okay. I'm just going to say cabin boy. Yeah. You're going to say cabin boy. Cabin boy, uh, says maybe it's 14th retirement.

[00:59:47] It misadventures changing slash adding to 15 memory. Does every minute that 14 is living at a minute to 15 memories or does 15 remember everything that 14 is yet to do? I think the latter. You think that's my opinion. Okay.

[01:00:04] I mean, yeah, I do hope that they, I think that the by generation is really interesting and I hope they don't just like sweep that under the rug and say, don't think about it. I hope they explore it a little bit and how that could complicate things.

[01:00:15] I agree. Even, even if you just mention it, like it was kind of weird that they were like, oh, well, Sue tech took over the TARDIS. Maybe we should try to get the one across town. Right? Exactly.

[01:00:26] Uh, like let's bring a hello pad to the, to the nobles house. Right? Like I, I just, I think that there was a better way to do it. Yeah. If there's a world ending event, it feels like the other doctor should be there. Right.

[01:00:38] Well, Rex wrote in to talk about the fob watch because, uh, regarding, uh, I think the subject line was actually, you know, regarding hiding using regeneration to hide. Right. Uh, and Simon said, well, this is talking about the fire watch, uh,

[01:00:53] used by the master in utopia, uh, or the Ruth doctor. The, so the chameleon it's called the chameleon circuit, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. So the chameleon circuit, the problem with that is that it doesn't actually change your appearance.

[01:01:11] It just turns you human and like it rewrites your DNA to turn you human and it hides your memories from you, but that disguises you from yourself and from people seeking a time Lord, it doesn't change your appearance.

[01:01:23] So I don't, I don't think that, that they are referring to that. I'm going to push back on that Rex. I I'm still stuck on the previous one because, um, okay. So I thought about on the one hand, then when the dust of death went out

[01:01:36] that, you know, the doctor and Donna would also disintegrate because why wouldn't they? Um, but then in terms of the TARDIS and I was like, well, would Sue tech destroyed the TARDIS, but wait, is Sue tech.

[01:01:48] So did Sue tech, uh, hop to the new TARDIS when it by generated or there are two Sue texts on each TARDIS did Sue tech by generate. Ooh, that's a great question.

[01:02:01] I think, I think Sue tech, I'm going to say that Sue tech had to pick a TARDIS. Okay. Okay. And they said, I went to the doctor who's going places where I can drop more season twists. Okay. It's too much. All right. Marilyn are peculiar.

[01:02:16] Our favorite Tolkien scholar writes in on the discord says, well, I kind of knew it from the beginning of the episode referring to my comment. Uh, as soon as Kate turned to dust, I was like, oh yeah, we're just going to

[01:02:26] reverse this whole thing because you're just not going to leave her dead. You've done, you've put too much work into her. Mm hmm. I think I said something similar to this before monster appears end of the world

[01:02:38] and the doctor can't defeat it eventually comes up with a way to defeat it. This was the only section that was really jazz hands for me and all happiness is restored. Mind you, I was content that it should be this way.

[01:02:49] Setting aside the similarity of the dust of death to the MCU than I was dusting. I thought this was a fun, innovative way to reverse time and death. And it was a lovely fairy tale about a happy ending for a baby that was given up for adoption.

[01:03:05] It's always nice when it happens that way and sad when it does not. I am reminded of Sam's comment, is everything sad going to come untrue? And I'm still entirely suspicious of Mrs flood. Could it be Susan Ruby's love for the doctor is going to make any future

[01:03:23] potential romantic partners life rather difficult. Who could possibly live up to all that? Of course she might fall for someone who works at unit or someone else who has met the doctor before and would understand. I, I do you think that Ruby's romantically in love with the doctor?

[01:03:38] Because I didn't read it like that at all. No, I didn't read it, read it like that at all. No. If she was, she wouldn't be the first one, but right. No, but I didn't get that at all because I think like she,

[01:03:49] like she was a very happy for him in rogue except for the whole sending rogue to an alternate dimension thing. Right? Yeah. I don't think, I don't think she's romantically in love with the doctor. I just think she loves him as family. I think she sees

[01:04:06] as someone who changed her life and showed her impossible things. Yeah. And who wouldn't have that love for the doctor. Right. And the doctor not saying I love you. As soon as Marilyn pointed that out at some point I was like, Oh,

[01:04:21] that is, that has a long history, Marilyn. Yeah. I mean go back episodes. Yeah. He might cry more, but he's still clearly got some issues to work through. I kind of like that though. Right. Yeah. No, I agree.

[01:04:35] He didn't just wave a magic by generation one and get rid of all the trauma. RTD said, okay, he's healthier, but he's not healthy. Right. He's still, I mean, this is some very serious trauma and the worst of which he's inflicted on his

[01:04:49] granddaughter. Right. Right. It's poor granddaughter. I can't believe he just locked her out of the TARDIS. Oh my God. Oh yeah. You didn't know that before I said, no, he literally like locks the door and she's on the other side,

[01:05:02] like grandfather let me in. Oh my God. It's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. All right. Athena a says I finished watching today and I loved it. Ruby got a really nice story conclusion and I love it when companions leave on

[01:05:17] their own terms, setting up some future suspense, which is nice as well. I don't think she's gone. I think this is the comment I replied to on the discord where I said she's as gone as David Tennant.

[01:05:30] No, it's confirmed. We've seen her on set. There's going to be, I guess probably he'll pick up the new companion or I don't know. We don't. So we know it's going to be Verada Sethu,

[01:05:39] but we don't know if she's playing the same character we saw her play in boom this season or if she's a different character. I kind of hope it's the same character because she was very emotionally

[01:05:51] depressed and I think that it would be healing for the doctor to help somebody through it to help someone open up. And then he realizes he's talking to himself. Yeah, I can see that. Um, yeah,

[01:06:01] I liked that character. I would be happy for it to be her. Uh, and then I'm guessing they start with her and then like need to bring Ruby back in because of something with stuff that went on this season.

[01:06:13] And then Nicola Coughlin comes in as Claire from dairy girls and is like, can you see, I can't do the dairy accent. Did you watch the video? I said, I did. That was so good. That was so good.

[01:06:27] I showed my wife cause she likes dairy girls a lot too. And she thought it was very funny. Should I watch Bridgerton now? Is that something I need to do now? I mean, I Bridgerton is fun. It is like a fun,

[01:06:38] you kind of turn your brain off, but it has like good human drama in it. We're watching Dr. Who. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're turning our brains off already. Yeah. I mean, I think Dr. Who has a,

[01:06:49] maybe a little more depth and not really. I mean, there is a lot of, uh, Bridgerton is it's like, yeah, it's a lot about like friendship and family and love of course. Well, all fun points.

[01:07:03] And I appreciate all the feedback and this has been a really fun season, Alicia. I'm glad we ended up doing full coverage of it. Yeah, absolutely. Even though now, now it's a hot lure. Summer's in full swing.

[01:07:14] Oh, I'm stressed, but we're done with Dr. Who now. So congratulations. This is the first conclusion of hot or summer. Do I need to do the thing? Should I do it? All right. One more time. What a stupid sound I made anyway. All right.

[01:07:31] But we got to come back after the Christmas special and talk about that. Oh, absolutely. Our girl, Claire slash Penelope Bridgerton. We will be back there. I want to remind everybody that we don't only cover Dr. Who.

[01:07:43] So if you found us on the sonic screw cast feed, fear not. We're covering house of the dragon. David and I are doing that. You and I, Alicia are doing the star Wars acolyte show, and that's going really well.

[01:07:56] And I know we're going to be doing some coverage of the bear coming up. Yeah. We have just a MC universe episode releases tomorrow to we gave a funeral to the Fox Marvel universe in preparation for a Deadpool and Wolverine.

[01:08:11] Yeah, that's fun. That's a that's a fun premise. Is that the name of the episode? I didn't even know. Yeah, it is. Yeah, that's fun. That's fun. Yeah. Plenty of other stuff. You did an interview with with. I want to say you, Howie, and it's not.

[01:08:27] No, it's not. But he did adapt a Hugh Howie, you know, book. Yeah. Glamatar, the co showrunner of season two of Beacon 23. But we ended up having this really like deep conversation about showwriting in general. You know, he's also worked on The Walking Dead and Damien

[01:08:45] and all this other stuff. And yeah, really great conversation. And you also have a new book club episode that out this week for people who subscribe to your right. Well, second shift. Right. Second shift. So yeah, the second part of the book shift. The second book in silo.

[01:09:01] We are at the very, very center of the series now. Very cool. On the lore hounds feed, one other note. We have a couple Patreon supercast exclusive podcast this week. We had a hot tea hot take on Raniere the cruel.

[01:09:16] We had Shire side chats should be out by the time this one goes public. And we're going to be doing second breakfast number 20 on Hotel Breakfast. So a lot going on on the Patreon and supercast feeds. Rings and Rituals is back this week with chapter eight alloyed.

[01:09:33] That is the finale of season one of Rings of Power. So if you're into that, please go over there. And Radioactive Ramblings is doing the boys. They're doing episode four of the new season this week. Probably Howard movie review just did a new episode.

[01:09:51] It was their finale of their season on Felonies and Fugazis. I keep forgetting to write it down, though. It is Barry Gordy's The Last Dragon. All right. I also have to show that next week on the the Star Wars Complete Canon Timeline podcast,

[01:10:07] I'm doing a special episode looking at some Star Wars origin myths for the planet Batuu set in 30000 years before the original movie. So watch out for that in the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast feed. Very cool. All right. Very cool.

[01:10:23] All right, Alicia, can you give shout outs to our discord server boosters and our top tier Patreon and supercast subscribers? Our lore masters? Yes. So for our discord server boosters, thank you. Narls, Aaron K. Tiller, the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Dove 71, Captain Jinji 56 and Athena Agilea.

[01:10:43] And thank you also to our lore masters, especially some Martian Michael G. Michelle E. David W. Brian P. S.C. Peter O.H. Bettina W. Adam S. Nancy M. Dove 71. Brian 8063. Frederick H. Sarah L. Gareth C. Eric F. Matthew M. Sarah M. DJ Miwa. Andra B. Kwong Yu.

[01:11:03] Jedi Jedi Bob. Nathan T. Alex V. Aaron T. Sub Zero. Aaron K. Dally V. Mothership. No. Mothership 61. Sorry, Narls. Kathy W., our newest lore master. Thank you and welcome. And thank you to Stuart B., who just upgraded from Lorehounds to Loremaster. And as always, last, Adrian.

[01:11:27] All right, everyone. Thanks for traveling through time and space with us. And we will see you at Christmas. The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the Lorehounds dot com slash

[01:11:40] contact. Get early and add free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at Patreon dot com slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.

[01:11:51] This summer, we enter a new era of Star Wars. You mean the dawn of the Star Wars canon timeline podcast? Yeah, yeah, sure. That too. But I was obviously talking about the accolade. We've got to cover that on the Lorehounds.

[01:12:09] Oh, but I'm not sure if you're going to be able to cover it on the Lorehounds. Oh, but the Star Wars canon timeline podcast is exactly at that point in the timeline. The end of the High Republic, 100 years before the prequel trilogy. We've got to cover it there.

[01:12:19] Why not both? OK, deal. It's the first live action Star War outside the Skywalker saga. Nobody can miss this. Listeners kick off your hot lore summer weekends with scene by scene breakdowns of the acolyte found in both the Star Wars canon timeline podcast and the prequel trilogy.

[01:12:32] And we'll be back with more on the Lorehounds podcast. And the Lorehounds mother feed. And the Lorehounds Star Wars feed. Wherever you like to listen, a couple of days after each new episode is released.