Dune: Prophecy - Midseason Check-in with The Dune Minute Podcast!

[00:00:16] Welcome to the Dune Sisterhood Podcast, where you're guides to the secrets of the sisterhood. I'm one of your hosts, David, and in this bonus episode, we have invited the Dune Minute Podcast guys to join us to do a midseason check-in. See how we're feeling about the episode, what are our thoughts and feelings about the production.

[00:00:43] I have Zach and John from the Dune Minute Podcast with us, as well as Alicia. And the four of us get into some deep spoiler territory. We start at the beginning spoiler-free, so if you want to listen to the first chunk of it, you can do so safely.

[00:01:02] And we cover, we talk about things that are up on the screen at the moment. But we give a big, big spoiler warning, and then we get into all of the book lore, the weirdness that is some of the longer range Frank Herbert stuff.

[00:01:16] We talk about the Brian Herbert XD stuff. And we generally have a good time burrowing around in the sand, figuring out what we can about our love for Dune. During the recording, you might hear a weird little tick on John's audio track. It's not you, it's us. It's a weird little software thing that was happening on their end and we couldn't correct for it. So anyway, don't worry about it. Otherwise, the podcast sounds great.

[00:01:45] And I highly encourage you to go over and check out the Dune Minute Podcast. They're great guys. Their main podcast is taking the Villeneuve Dune 1 movie apart minute by minute, literally minute by minute. They're almost finished. They're just getting up to the end.

[00:02:04] And once we get into the new year, they're going to take a little bit of a break, but they've got more podcasts in the plan. They're going to do these things called Summer School, even though it's winter.

[00:02:16] But they're going to go into deep dives about different things like the Navigators or the Mentats, stuff like that. So that's going to be really fun. And then sometime in the spring, they're going to pick up with the part two of the Denis Villeneuve movie.

[00:02:29] And literally, they go minute by minute. So if dialogue gets cut off in the minute, that's where they stop. But they spend about 15-20 minutes per minute talking about it, breaking it down, comparing it to book lore, comparing it to other lore that we have from the encyclopedia and from some of the other books that have been produced.

[00:02:47] It's a lot of fun. So I highly encourage you to go check it out. They're also on our Discord now. You can find them there. And yeah, we had a really enjoyable time.

[00:02:58] And we will get together with them after the series is over, probably in early January, and do sort of a wrap up to see where our predictions were on target or where we missed stuff.

[00:03:09] And generally, you know, see where we are and if this was successful. I mean, we're all very happy that there's more Dune on the television screen, but we'll see how the series did overall.

[00:03:21] So definitely go check them out. Stop by the Discord. Send us email to dune at the lorehounds.com. And Alicia and I will see you on the episode four recap.

[00:03:34] Yeah.

[00:03:35] The listener guide will change the face of Arrakis.

[00:03:39] Hey, everybody. This is David from the Lorehounds. If you are on the Dune Minute podcast, you probably don't recognize my voice, but I am, in fact, here with Zach and John from the Dune Minute podcast. How are you guys doing?

[00:03:51] Doing great. Doing pretty well, man. It's good to be here.

[00:03:55] It is. And I've got Alicia from the Lorehounds as well.

[00:03:58] Hello.

[00:03:59] My co-host from over there. And we all met on Blue Sky and we've been siege posting along with some of the other notorious Blue Sky posters out there.

[00:04:12] And we were like, hey, let's do a crossover because we're all having a little bit of fun here.

[00:04:15] And so we decided to cook this up. So really great to have you guys.

[00:04:20] John and Zach, tell us a little bit about the Dune Minute podcast and how you guys got started in the Duneiverse.

[00:04:30] We're far from the first minute or movie by minutes format show.

[00:04:34] Okay.

[00:04:34] But we are the first one that I know of anyways that is doing it, you know, minute by minute.

[00:04:40] So we watch a minute of the movie and we talk about that minute for, you know, anywhere from 15 to 25 minutes, which, you know, with a movie like Dune, it's super, super dense.

[00:04:50] Yeah.

[00:04:51] Most of them are anyways.

[00:04:53] So it's been a great show.

[00:04:55] It's been a whole heck of a lot, especially for a first podcasting venture for both of us.

[00:05:00] Uh-huh.

[00:05:01] Yeah.

[00:05:02] But it's been a lot of fun.

[00:05:03] That's great.

[00:05:04] You say 15 to 25 minutes, but I think our longest episode is somewhere in the neighborhood of 40.

[00:05:09] That's true.

[00:05:10] Oh, no.

[00:05:11] That's what we eat for breakfast on the Lorehounds.

[00:05:15] You guys were joking about two-hour podcasts and I'm like, two hours.

[00:05:19] Maybe it's a short time.

[00:05:20] Well, two hours is quite a long time for us.

[00:05:23] Yes, indeed.

[00:05:24] Look, when you only have 60 seconds of content to talk about per episode, it's sometimes.

[00:05:30] Yeah, stretch it out.

[00:05:31] Where is this minute-by-minute analysis?

[00:05:33] Is this something that exists elsewhere on the internet?

[00:05:35] I haven't come across it before.

[00:05:39] The one that kind of brought me into that world was the Star Wars Minute.

[00:05:45] And that's a show that's been going on since, I think, 2013.

[00:05:49] Okay.

[00:05:50] And they have gone through all of the Star Wars movies and the shows, or the shows they do episode by episode, but all of the movies, prequels, sequels, all of the original trilogy, minute by minute.

[00:06:03] Wow.

[00:06:04] Yeah.

[00:06:05] It's a heavy lift.

[00:06:07] I think they just finished.

[00:06:09] What's that?

[00:06:10] Last year.

[00:06:11] They finished the main movies last year, so it was 10 years worth of minute by minute.

[00:06:17] That's an incredible feat.

[00:06:19] John, how did you fall into the Duniverse?

[00:06:23] What was your first cup of spice tea?

[00:06:26] Oh, God.

[00:06:27] I can almost tell you exactly when.

[00:06:32] So, in seventh grade, I had this friend in middle school.

[00:06:35] His name was Patrick.

[00:06:37] And Patrick was my only friend in middle school because we were both just super nerdy about everything.

[00:06:47] And I stayed over at his house one weekend or whatever, and he was just like, have you ever heard of Dune?

[00:06:53] I have this movie.

[00:06:55] And I was like, no, I haven't.

[00:06:56] So, of course, it was the 84 Lynch film.

[00:06:58] Of course it was.

[00:07:00] For a seventh grader to watch is perfect.

[00:07:05] It's hard to stay engaged.

[00:07:08] Really?

[00:07:09] Oh, man.

[00:07:09] No.

[00:07:11] Johnny, Hero's Journey, Riding a Big Worm.

[00:07:14] Come on.

[00:07:15] So, but it was one of those things where it was like, we had it on and I just was enthralled by it, even though it is not a good movie at all.

[00:07:27] We like to differ.

[00:07:28] But we love it.

[00:07:29] We love it so much.

[00:07:31] With aid, it has grown on me.

[00:07:33] Yeah.

[00:07:34] But yeah.

[00:07:35] And then ever since then, it was just like, all right, cool.

[00:07:38] Well, you know, he sent me home, I think, with his copy of Dune.

[00:07:43] And I read it in a week and was just like, I need more.

[00:07:47] And then, you know, thankfully my parents were like, oh, he's reading instead of playing video games.

[00:07:52] This is good.

[00:07:53] So, we'll just buy him more books.

[00:07:55] And, you know, I think I read Dune Messiah when I was, you know, younger.

[00:08:01] And then through high school, you know, continued reading the rest of Frank's books.

[00:08:05] Right.

[00:08:06] So, Zach, do you have a similar story?

[00:08:08] I don't know.

[00:08:09] 84, I think for me it was the 84 movie that I first got.

[00:08:13] And then I don't remember when I first read the books, but then once I started reading the books, I couldn't stop.

[00:08:17] I don't know.

[00:08:18] What was your experience?

[00:08:20] Similar to John's.

[00:08:21] Yeah.

[00:08:22] Read the books in high school.

[00:08:24] And I don't think I saw the 84 movie until maybe like five years ago.

[00:08:32] So, I was really late to that party.

[00:08:34] Yeah.

[00:08:34] I was really late to that party.

[00:08:36] But I think it's a wonderfully bad movie.

[00:08:40] Wonderful.

[00:08:40] Yeah.

[00:08:41] See?

[00:08:42] He gets it.

[00:08:43] Yeah.

[00:08:44] It is objectively a rough movie to get through.

[00:08:47] I've fallen asleep.

[00:08:48] I think John and I both have fallen asleep to it many, many times.

[00:08:50] But it is one that is very near and dear to my heart, even with all its shortcomings.

[00:08:57] Right.

[00:08:59] And so, yeah, I read the books in high school and really didn't think much about Dune for a long time until probably about five or six years ago.

[00:09:07] One of my friends picked the book up and was like, has anyone ever read this?

[00:09:10] And I was like, it just washed over me again.

[00:09:13] I was like, oh, my gosh, yes, of course.

[00:09:15] And it sent me back down the path.

[00:09:18] Nice.

[00:09:18] And, yeah, it's been fun.

[00:09:21] And this is your guys' first podcast?

[00:09:24] Yeah.

[00:09:25] Yeah.

[00:09:25] Yeah.

[00:09:25] And how's the podcasting experience, podcast our life been for you guys?

[00:09:29] It's, well, if you listen to the first handful of episodes of the show, you can see.

[00:09:34] I have not gone back.

[00:09:34] I've only been catching up on, I've been staying current.

[00:09:36] I've listened to them and I think they sound good.

[00:09:39] I went through, I went back.

[00:09:40] I went back and re-edited and remastered them because they were really, really rough.

[00:09:45] I learned a lot.

[00:09:47] About 20 or 30 episodes in, I kind of came into being able to mix correctly.

[00:09:52] So, yeah, they sound fine now, but they were very rough.

[00:09:57] For reference, we recorded those first five episodes in the room that you see Zach in right

[00:10:03] now, which has no sound conditioning in it at all.

[00:10:07] And it's tile floors and windows and, you know, not great.

[00:10:11] Zach was looking at his screen, but also like turned away from the mic to turn back and look

[00:10:17] at me.

[00:10:17] And it was just a, it was a disaster, but we kind of realized the couch formula very

[00:10:23] quickly suits us a lot better.

[00:10:26] So, Zach, did I see a little sand trout running around on the ground behind you there?

[00:10:31] Yes, it is.

[00:10:32] That is my cat, Sol, S-O-L.

[00:10:35] And he is a foster cat that stayed with me.

[00:10:40] And yeah, he's a good guy.

[00:10:41] He's made quite a few appearances on the show in the background.

[00:10:45] Yes, Alicia's cats, sandtracks, always join us on the podcast.

[00:10:52] They have opinions and they must be heard.

[00:10:55] They've watched the movies several times, at least.

[00:10:59] They know the movies as well as anybody.

[00:11:02] Alicia, I know you and I have had this, you know, conversations about how you got started

[00:11:06] with Dune, but you want to recount it for the Dune Minute folks?

[00:11:10] It was basically my mom.

[00:11:12] You know, I was a voracious reader growing up and she was the one who like kept giving

[00:11:16] me sci-fi books.

[00:11:17] And she, at some point, you know, when I was a baby, she fell in love with Dune and she read

[00:11:23] all of the books that were out at that time, including, you know, some of Brian Herbert's

[00:11:28] books.

[00:11:30] And honestly, I guess, I think I got the book first, but I was also into that game in the

[00:11:36] 90s.

[00:11:37] Yeah, that was when we were harvesting spice and building factories.

[00:11:42] What are those kinds called?

[00:11:44] Exploration?

[00:11:45] Simulation or yeah.

[00:11:46] Anyway, but I was like really into SimCity and stuff like that.

[00:11:49] So it was really up my alley.

[00:11:51] And then also, of course, the Lynch movie.

[00:11:54] Yeah.

[00:11:55] That was, it was, I think the Lynch movie that got my mom into it, although she says she

[00:12:00] read the book before she saw the movie.

[00:12:02] Right.

[00:12:03] And for folks too, do you want to talk a little bit about what we do over at the Lorehounds?

[00:12:08] Because we're kind of omnivorous where the Dune Minute podcast folks are very selective

[00:12:14] eaters.

[00:12:15] Yeah.

[00:12:16] What did we say?

[00:12:17] We are your guides to great stories.

[00:12:19] Yes.

[00:12:20] So that's a lot of TV, film, games, music.

[00:12:26] It's just kind of, we take a lore focused dive into most things, but not everything.

[00:12:32] Like I can tell you, we did not bring up a lot of lore in the Christmas episodes with

[00:12:36] the Netflix Christmas specials.

[00:12:39] Yeah.

[00:12:40] Because we're getting into our cheesy month of December doing the Vanessa Hudgens universe.

[00:12:45] Oh, wow.

[00:12:47] I got to say, like, you know, I've been listening to the silo show that y'all have done for a

[00:12:52] long time.

[00:12:53] Oh, really?

[00:12:54] Oh, great.

[00:12:54] Yeah.

[00:12:55] Yeah.

[00:12:55] So this is kind of serendipitous for me a little bit.

[00:12:58] Oh, cool.

[00:12:58] Yeah.

[00:13:00] And I've, I'm just, as I've kind of looked at y'all's catalog, I am so impressed with how

[00:13:05] much y'all like kind of take in and digest and talk about everything.

[00:13:08] It is super impressive.

[00:13:10] Yeah.

[00:13:11] If we paid attention to what we were actually doing, we would realize how insane we are.

[00:13:16] But if we stopped to make that realization, it would fall apart.

[00:13:19] So we just have to kind of keep going.

[00:13:21] Yeah.

[00:13:22] We, we let our hearts rule over our heads.

[00:13:26] Yeah.

[00:13:26] In that regards.

[00:13:27] It's fortunately our, you know, our, well, in different various forms and circumstances,

[00:13:33] we've bended our lives into this, even though this is none of our full times.

[00:13:38] It certainly feels like it's a extremely full time kind of thing.

[00:13:42] So, but yeah, we have a lot of fun.

[00:13:46] We, we, we actually all have a lot of passion and we have a very passionate community around

[00:13:50] us.

[00:13:50] And some people come in and out for certain titles, like the token people will roll in and

[00:13:56] then they'll roll out.

[00:13:57] And then now we're picking up some Dune stuff or the Star Wars folks.

[00:14:00] Then we have some folks who stick around all the whole time.

[00:14:03] Uh, but it's been, it's been a pretty incredible journey coming together.

[00:14:07] So, and then now we have Dune.

[00:14:09] So let's turn our minds to Dune prophecy.

[00:14:12] So the way I've kind of structured the outline, we'll, we'll do some hot takes.

[00:14:16] We'll get, uh, some general impressions, spoiler free.

[00:14:20] And, uh, we'll do a sort of a quick round Robin of what we're seeing on the show.

[00:14:24] And then we'll get into actual fuller discussion of the whole Dune universe where we can just

[00:14:32] sort of talk a little bit more free form.

[00:14:35] And in that conversation, it's going to be, uh, you know, get your, uh, uh, still suit

[00:14:40] on.

[00:14:40] Cause we're going to go in the deep desert and, uh, it's going to be all spoilers.

[00:14:44] And then we'll wrap up with some predictions, what we think might happen with the show at

[00:14:49] end.

[00:14:51] So Zach, why don't you lead us off?

[00:14:53] What is your, what are your hot takes for Dune prophecy so far?

[00:14:57] Yeah.

[00:14:58] Um, well so far I'm really liking the show.

[00:15:02] Um, it's, I'm pretty easy to please when it comes to like the, the media that I ingest.

[00:15:07] Uh, I just, I like shows and especially if it's about a, a, a universe that I'm passionate

[00:15:13] about, it's hard to make me not like something really.

[00:15:16] Um, so I, you know, any Dune's really better than no Dune at all.

[00:15:21] So it's sure.

[00:15:22] For sure.

[00:15:23] Yeah.

[00:15:23] Uh, so just that out of the way, I, I am really liking the show so far.

[00:15:28] Um, there, I naturally, I have some things that I'm like, ah, well, you know, that could

[00:15:33] have been done better or, you know, that's not what I was expecting and things like that.

[00:15:37] But, um, the, the backstory that they're giving these, uh, these families that we we've all

[00:15:42] known it's, it's, it is, it's, it's very interesting to me.

[00:15:46] Um, I'm not super well-versed with, uh, Brian Herbert's books.

[00:15:50] Um, I've listened and read a little bit of them.

[00:15:53] Um, so I can't really say if they're sticking to that level of the Canon.

[00:15:58] Um, but, uh, at least what I've seen on screen, I like it a lot.

[00:16:03] Hmm.

[00:16:04] Cool.

[00:16:04] Um, the, the stuff that's like the, the, the backstories to things that we know, like the,

[00:16:11] the voice and, um, stuff like that.

[00:16:14] It works well when it, when it makes sense to me, um, I'm not exactly on board with how

[00:16:20] they're depicting the origins of the voice right now.

[00:16:23] Um, I think it's okay at best, uh, in my opinion, but it is a little hand wavy magic,

[00:16:31] which, you know, most things in the Dune universe, I think at least have some kind of grounded

[00:16:35] explanation.

[00:16:36] This just seems to be kind of something that is existing without any kind of explanation

[00:16:43] for it.

[00:16:44] Um, so I'm interested to see where they take that and if, if there's any, uh, if they kind

[00:16:48] of ground that ability that Valya has, but, uh, we'll see, I guess.

[00:16:53] Okay.

[00:16:54] Yeah.

[00:16:55] Any other thoughts or?

[00:16:57] Yeah.

[00:16:57] Yeah.

[00:16:57] Uh, the, I'm the six episode series is, is really interesting to me.

[00:17:05] Um, I know it's, it's kind of being billed as like a, a mini series right now.

[00:17:10] Um, and I, I'm not sure if my initial thoughts on that were like, I don't know if this is going

[00:17:15] to help the show at all.

[00:17:16] Um, if you know, that's a short amount of time to tell such a dense story.

[00:17:20] Yeah.

[00:17:21] Um, yeah.

[00:17:22] And, you know, that, that could help, I guess, kind of like expedite the story, but that's

[00:17:27] not really what we've seen work out in the Dune universe.

[00:17:30] Uh, you know, I'm, I'm kind of thinking about the, the Lynch movie in my head, the, they

[00:17:34] pick, they've tried to fit all of that content into an hour and a half.

[00:17:38] Uh, and it's just, you know, there, there are parts that work parts that didn't work.

[00:17:42] I already told you that I love the movie.

[00:17:44] So I just love the movie, but you know, there's stuff that worked and didn't.

[00:17:47] Um, so yeah, I just, I don't know how I feel about that one.

[00:17:51] Um, I hope it works for them.

[00:17:53] Right.

[00:17:54] Alicia, where are you at with, uh, Dune Prophecy so far?

[00:17:59] Well, so I was a bit salty about episode three in our recording earlier today, and that was

[00:18:04] cathartic.

[00:18:05] So, I mean, the first episode, I was so excited about it.

[00:18:10] And then I have some concerns where I just have to adjust, I think the level of character

[00:18:19] development that I'm expecting, you know, and, and character definition and, you know, and,

[00:18:26] and then I think that I will very much enjoy the plot elements.

[00:18:30] And obviously the visually it's gorgeous, you know, and the, the cast is great.

[00:18:36] And, um, I, I want this to do well because I want more seasons, but I also want to feel,

[00:18:46] I just want to see how this season falls into place because there are some things where I'm

[00:18:54] just getting very nervous about how much it's going to feel like Dune when all the pieces

[00:19:00] fall in place.

[00:19:00] And I really hope that, um, they're just playing with us.

[00:19:07] Yeah.

[00:19:08] And we're episode three.

[00:19:10] And so we've got, we've got the back three.

[00:19:11] So, uh, we're, I think all a little bit fingers crossed, John, uh, how are you doing?

[00:19:17] What's your, uh, hot takes so far?

[00:19:19] Well, my, my hottest take is that just because it's an HBO show doesn't mean that it has to

[00:19:25] have a sex scene and everything.

[00:19:27] It's contractually obligated.

[00:19:29] I signed, when I signed up to, for streaming, I said, I want, I need sex in every episode,

[00:19:35] every, every, every show that I'm watching on HBO.

[00:19:40] Put Showtime to shame, right?

[00:19:42] Cause Showtime used to be the back in the day, early cable.

[00:19:44] They're trying to get people to look up from their phones.

[00:19:47] That's true.

[00:19:48] I guess.

[00:19:48] I don't know.

[00:19:50] I think, I think if any of them makes sense and we'll get into this later as we're talking

[00:19:56] about spoilers, but if any of them makes sense, it's the actual one from this week.

[00:20:00] Right.

[00:20:01] Last week's was horrendously cringe and I hated it.

[00:20:06] Yeah, me too.

[00:20:07] But I'm a little more, I would say I'm a little more pessimistic about the show than Zach might

[00:20:14] be.

[00:20:15] Um, just because I see them really pigeonholing themselves into kind of what Zach was saying,

[00:20:23] where, you know, you're limiting yourself to six episodes and doing isn't a thing you can

[00:20:28] just rush.

[00:20:28] You have to kind of let it take its time and marinate and three episodes into a six episode

[00:20:34] series.

[00:20:35] I'm kind of getting some house of the dragon season two vibes in terms of, you know, how

[00:20:42] the storytelling is going and everything.

[00:20:45] I won't say that this is a surface of Arrakis level hot take, but the momentum halt that we

[00:20:52] get from this week's episode of blackbacks doesn't help with the keeping the hype up of the story

[00:20:59] and everything.

[00:21:00] Yeah.

[00:21:01] I have more spoiler thoughts based on that for later.

[00:21:05] Okay.

[00:21:05] And also like Zach said, you know, magic has no place in doing right now.

[00:21:09] Anything we've seen from Desmond is magic and I don't like it.

[00:21:14] That's what I'm worried about.

[00:21:16] Yeah.

[00:21:16] Yeah.

[00:21:16] But I did like the, I liked the flashbacks.

[00:21:19] I just thought that they dumbed them down too much unnecessarily.

[00:21:24] I think they could have done interesting things in an efficient way with, you know, screen

[00:21:28] time and all that.

[00:21:30] They definitely could have been more efficient with them.

[00:21:32] I will absolutely agree with that.

[00:21:34] I think the other thing too, is just like the flashbacks definitely give some important

[00:21:39] context to the characters and their motivations.

[00:21:42] Did we need to spend a whole hour on flashbacks?

[00:21:46] No.

[00:21:46] Maybe they should have been sprinkling this stuff more throughout too.

[00:21:50] Yeah.

[00:21:50] Did they need to spend a good five minutes on whale carcass butchery?

[00:21:56] Hey, it looked great.

[00:21:56] Yes, that was the best part of the show.

[00:21:58] Yeah.

[00:22:00] Furry whales.

[00:22:02] Yeah.

[00:22:02] I've been like trying to picture these furry whales ever since I read about them, you know?

[00:22:07] I'm like, yes, show me that whale fur.

[00:22:09] Not the other stuff that Harrow was trying to sew.

[00:22:14] Right.

[00:22:14] Yeah, exactly.

[00:22:16] Yeah, I think it's interesting to hear everybody's point of view because I think it's a good

[00:22:21] mirror for what's happening in the community at large and what we're seeing sort of on the

[00:22:26] internet that I don't see anybody running from the room with their hair on fire saying how

[00:22:33] bad it is.

[00:22:34] I mean, there's certain detractors on the internet, kill surprise.

[00:22:38] But it seems like people who are not enjoying it, it's not so bad that they're not hanging with it and

[00:22:43] willing to keep going through.

[00:22:45] And I think that's kind of where I am as well.

[00:22:48] I said this on our episode three recap today.

[00:22:51] When I take apart the Lego pieces of the episode, individually, there's great stuff, great scenes.

[00:22:57] You know, there's some clunky dialogue, but there's also some good dialogue, some great

[00:23:01] acting.

[00:23:02] All the visuals are great.

[00:23:03] And like Alicia, I was really psyched after episode one.

[00:23:06] I was like, okay, if this is what we're doing, let's go.

[00:23:10] And then two and three and trying to generate the energy because we've done it before where

[00:23:17] we've been negative about our show or trying to get through a show that we haven't enjoyed.

[00:23:22] It is not fun and it's not fun for the listeners and it's not fun for us.

[00:23:26] And oftentimes when a show is buckling at the knees a little bit, we'll get into nitpicking

[00:23:32] on the production where, you know, the, oh, the CGI was bad here or, you know, the costume

[00:23:38] was, you know, funny there.

[00:23:40] I got no nits to pick on the visuals, on the CGI, the acting, the casting.

[00:23:46] That's all been on point.

[00:23:48] So it's, it's, it's kind of hard to displace my anxiety about certain things in the show

[00:23:55] working and not working.

[00:23:57] And I wonder sometimes it feels like they studied the lore, but I wonder, do they understand

[00:24:04] the lore?

[00:24:05] Cause like having an episode three, having one of the sisters, you know, mentioned Shai Hulud

[00:24:11] and maker.

[00:24:14] Those are, it's not that she can't use those words where nobody's saying you can't, but

[00:24:17] it's just so out of context.

[00:24:20] Yeah.

[00:24:21] It's like, that's rings in my ears when I hear it.

[00:24:24] I think we spent like a good five minutes or so just talking about like, why are the

[00:24:29] Bene Gesserit saying these very Fremen religion focused, you know, words and everything.

[00:24:36] And like for, okay, Shai Hulud, sure.

[00:24:38] That's, that is a well-known thing.

[00:24:41] You know, one of the things that we talked about in our episode for this week's recap was

[00:24:45] that's even mentioned in the film book that Paul has in the seventh minute of the first

[00:24:53] movie saying Shai Hulud, but maker is, you know, you have my attention when you say that.

[00:24:59] And for someone who isn't Fremen to be invoking that.

[00:25:04] So cultural appropriation.

[00:25:09] It's that place.

[00:25:10] So I would definitely agree with that place.

[00:25:13] They read it, but maybe don't understand it.

[00:25:15] And this is where a lot of my problems start.

[00:25:20] And, you know, I'm very vocal about that on the actual minutes of Dune Minute.

[00:25:25] Sure.

[00:25:26] Yeah.

[00:25:27] It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a known love hate relationship.

[00:25:31] Right.

[00:25:31] Right.

[00:25:32] When we were talking on our episode three today too, we were joking about the, you know,

[00:25:36] we have the OG, we have the XD, we have the, and then the DV, the

[00:25:40] the, the Denis Villeneuve verse.

[00:25:43] And I was kind of wishing today, like, I kind of wish maybe Villeneuve had stuck around

[00:25:48] a little bit more and put his imprint a little bit harder on the production.

[00:25:54] And the storyline, cause I kind of want this to connect just like we, we just watched the

[00:25:59] penguin.

[00:26:00] I was like, wow, this really connects with the movie, you know, with the Batman movie.

[00:26:05] And they just really work well together.

[00:26:07] There, there's some, you know, the act, some, a lot of actors and the set design, all of

[00:26:10] that stuff.

[00:26:11] So I was really hoping for that in this.

[00:26:13] And I feel like it's, we might miss the connection point slightly.

[00:26:17] So that's a little frustrating.

[00:26:19] I do have frustrations about the origin story of the voice, but I'm going to set that aside

[00:26:24] for right now.

[00:26:25] And yeah, I don't know.

[00:26:27] It's Dune.

[00:26:28] So I'm going to keep watching it.

[00:26:29] What can I say?

[00:26:29] I'm going to keep podcasting about it.

[00:26:31] But I think this is a good opportunity to switch gears and then get into our, our general

[00:26:37] discussion.

[00:26:38] From here on out, we are going to talk everything Dune related.

[00:26:43] All the XD, all the original books, even maybe the sci-fi mini series.

[00:26:51] So if you don't want to hear that, go read everything, go watch everything and then come

[00:26:56] back.

[00:26:57] You know, the podcast will still be here in perpetuity for, for you.

[00:27:01] Let's just start with the voice because that's the thing that we're not going to start with

[00:27:04] James McAvoy turning into a worm after you brought that up.

[00:27:07] I think they need to bring him back.

[00:27:08] Honestly, I will, I will say the prosthetics and everything that they use for that was really

[00:27:13] good.

[00:27:14] Like, yeah, big fan of that.

[00:27:16] I need, somebody needs to hook me up because I have not seen it.

[00:27:19] And I don't know where I could, I'm sure I can find it somewhere on YouTube.

[00:27:23] Oh, is it?

[00:27:24] Okay.

[00:27:24] Yeah.

[00:27:26] It's not super high quality.

[00:27:28] It's fine.

[00:27:29] But it's yeah, it's all there.

[00:27:31] It'll add to it.

[00:27:31] I'll put it on a small screen and I'll pretend like I'm 12 watching the.

[00:27:36] It's 2003 again, baby.

[00:27:39] That's right.

[00:27:40] No.

[00:27:40] So yeah, no, no prosthetic worm costumes, but we can talk about voice or should we talk about

[00:27:45] Desmond?

[00:27:46] I don't know what, whatever's the hottest topic.

[00:27:48] Zach, you want to tee us off on where you're at with some of the deeper lore questions?

[00:27:54] Yeah.

[00:27:55] So as it pertains to the voice, like, I guess I'll start with like the deeper lore.

[00:27:59] My introduction to the deeper lore was the Dune Encyclopedia.

[00:28:03] God, I don't have a copy.

[00:28:05] I am jealous of anyone who on eBay, man, they're like two, $300.

[00:28:09] Look at you.

[00:28:10] Yeah.

[00:28:11] It's, it always stays beside the computer when I'm doing my notes and everything.

[00:28:15] So it's a really good, like awesome book to leaf through.

[00:28:19] And it's, it tells a very different story than what we get from the Brian Herbert books.

[00:28:25] I know that's, that was, you know, this thing was a, basically a fan fiction in the eighties that Frank Herbert just like said, cool.

[00:28:33] Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:28:33] That's great.

[00:28:34] So it's not official by any capacity, but it's good.

[00:28:38] It, it, it, it at least provides like a, um, a good foundation for a lot of stuff that we see in the, the original six books.

[00:28:46] Um, so I'm always comparing what I'm seeing from Brian Herbert's books back to that.

[00:28:54] And because I have kind of a nostalgic feeling towards the Dune Encyclopedia, I'm like, well, that's not really true.

[00:29:01] Is it?

[00:29:02] Yeah.

[00:29:02] That's, I'm always like, that, that, that could be better.

[00:29:07] So the, the Encyclopedia and I, I'm probably mixing up some details here, but the Encyclopedia goes and has a lot about the voice in there and how the Bene Gesserit use it.

[00:29:16] Um, and it's supposed to be this like thing that developed over thousands and thousands of years, um, for the Bene Gesserit, which I think makes more sense, um, than just one person.

[00:29:27] Oh, I can do this.

[00:29:29] So it's, that left me a little like wanting, um, or for that, the, the backstory, but six episodes, you know, what can you do?

[00:29:39] Well, right.

[00:29:40] Yeah.

[00:29:40] Or you could have a weirding module and, uh, that would be good.

[00:29:45] Uh, I would love for you to, uh, scan the voice entry and send it to me.

[00:29:50] Cause I'm really curious about that.

[00:29:52] If you dig on Google there, there is a full PDF of the Encyclopedia.

[00:29:56] Oh, for free.

[00:29:58] Um, I can't tell you the, the website.

[00:30:01] No, maybe I can send it to you once in a while.

[00:30:02] I dig it.

[00:30:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:30:03] For sure.

[00:30:04] But it is out there.

[00:30:05] I dig in the way to find it.

[00:30:06] The internet is a wonderful place that has a lot of really good things on it.

[00:30:10] A lot of really bad things too, but a lot of really good things.

[00:30:14] And the Dune Encyclopedia is one of those.

[00:30:16] Absolutely.

[00:30:18] John, uh, the voice, are you, where are you at?

[00:30:25] Uh, I hate the way that the show has introduced the voice to us with, you know, Dahlia just.

[00:30:32] In a moment of crisis.

[00:30:34] Deciding that she, you know, can, or she figured out in a moment of crisis that she can do this.

[00:30:39] And then she's slowly been like tweaking it.

[00:30:41] Mm-hmm.

[00:30:42] I think one of the big things, like I'm fine with one person, you know, maybe finding the foundational roots of it and then kind of developing it.

[00:30:55] One of the things that I talked about during our, you know.

[00:30:58] That would track with, with human evolution, right?

[00:31:01] Like, oh, I picked up this fruit and it's tastes funny, but I feel really good after I eat it because, oh, it fermented and turned into alcohol.

[00:31:09] Gosh, let's go investigate that and actually refine the process over thousands of years.

[00:31:14] Yeah.

[00:31:15] One of the things that I talked about in this week's episode for, you know, the Dune Minute recap, which, you know, I'm going to plug our show to your followers and everything.

[00:31:24] Yes, absolutely.

[00:31:24] Feel free to, feel free to, you know, pick it out.

[00:31:26] We have all of our followers should go follow your show.

[00:31:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:36] If the first, like the very first time that Valia used it was at that end of episode one.

[00:31:45] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:45] Or maybe not the very first time that she used it, but the first time she used it against someone else was that first time.

[00:31:51] Against Dorotea.

[00:31:52] Or was at that end of episode one with Dorotea.

[00:31:55] Uh-huh.

[00:31:56] But that is in the books, like the first time she really uses it, like she's working it out before that.

[00:32:01] And that's the first time it's, and because it's a moment of crisis.

[00:32:04] Yeah.

[00:32:06] I just feel like the, well, I'm going to use it, I'm going to use it in this moment of crisis with my brother.

[00:32:11] And then I'm going to use it on my friends.

[00:32:13] Oh, yeah.

[00:32:13] The show added that.

[00:32:14] Yeah.

[00:32:14] Yeah.

[00:32:15] Yeah.

[00:32:15] And then that almost lessens the impact of the voice in my mind.

[00:32:21] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:22] So not a big fan of where they took all the stuff with this last episode.

[00:32:27] But, you know, that's just me.

[00:32:28] Alicia, you've been, did you finish Sisterhood yet?

[00:32:33] Yes.

[00:32:34] But so my feelings about Dune in general, I love Dune.

[00:32:38] To me, one thing that never made sense is the extent of the timelines.

[00:32:43] Like if you just look at our own human history, it goes so much.

[00:32:46] And I know it's all about stagnation and it's all about holding each other in check and feudal systems and blah, blah, blah.

[00:32:53] Yes, I know.

[00:32:53] I know.

[00:32:54] I know.

[00:32:54] And I'll tell people that.

[00:32:55] But I do think that the timelines are ridiculous.

[00:33:01] So in my mind, sometimes like I compress it a little bit just to make it make more sense to me.

[00:33:06] So, yeah, I'm working on the voice over thousands of years.

[00:33:11] That seems excessive to me.

[00:33:12] Doing it in, you know, a couple of years, one girl also seems excessively small to me.

[00:33:19] So I make a lot of exceptions just because I love this world and I love the both Frank Herbert's and Brian Herbert's exploration of characters and moving political pieces.

[00:33:35] And this show, I think, just feels a little watered down for me, but I think I'm being too hard on it.

[00:33:45] I think I was too hard on it in the episode three breakdown.

[00:33:48] Yeah.

[00:33:48] Well, to that point, you know, one of the things that I kind of have to remind myself and I have to remind Zach whenever we're recording is that this show, yes, it's made for Dune fans, but it has to appeal to normies.

[00:34:02] And you can't go super crazy in depth in, you know, to every single little detail.

[00:34:09] Unfortunately for us, because I would love for them to, I would love to have an entire series just on Holtzman.

[00:34:18] But, you know, that's not my problem, though.

[00:34:21] Like, it's my problem.

[00:34:22] I'm not worried.

[00:34:24] I'm not like bothered by the voice stuff.

[00:34:26] I'm bothered by the fact that I feel like there's a lot of inconsistencies about how the sisters behave.

[00:34:35] Sure.

[00:34:35] That they're not internally consistent.

[00:34:37] They're not consistent with.

[00:34:39] Yeah.

[00:34:40] That's my bigger problem.

[00:34:42] And then just like, yeah, I don't want to go back down that rabbit hole, but just the character interactions and stuff.

[00:34:47] Sometimes they don't ring true.

[00:34:50] And I'm like, why make that change if it's for the worse, you know?

[00:34:55] I feel like a little bit of that too comes in from the Westworld, the way that they were producing Westworld.

[00:35:03] And I think, I forget who it was.

[00:35:04] Maybe it was you, Zach, who said something about it the other day on one of your podcasts.

[00:35:08] Yeah, there's some Westworld, these are Westworld alumni, and they were doing some things in the latter seasons that were just like, oh, well, you're just really, I mean, it's, they're making stuff up.

[00:35:19] But they're still, they're compressing and simplifying things in a way that was just making it less juicy and less interesting, less rich.

[00:35:27] Like you're saying, Alicia, why make, you have source material about this character.

[00:35:33] Why dumb the, why dumb it down just to dumb it down instead of opening it up and showing us the richness.

[00:35:41] This is HBO.

[00:35:43] Make it rich.

[00:35:44] Make it complex.

[00:35:45] Go, yeah, go a little weird and crazy on the edges here, you know?

[00:35:49] Because that's why, that's why we're here for 9pm.

[00:35:51] The, you know, the normies, there's plenty for the normies here, right?

[00:35:55] Would you know why I wish that Villeneuve had stayed more involved?

[00:35:58] Is because I think they would have let him have more agency, you know?

[00:36:05] And I have the feeling that we're dealing with the too many cooks in the kitchen situation.

[00:36:10] Right, right.

[00:36:11] Yeah, that's, when I first heard that this is going to be a six series, or six episodes series, it initially came off to me as like, do they, they don't have a lot of faith in this.

[00:36:21] You know, like they may not have a ton of faith in the story that's being told, or they're, you know, trying to protect their investment if they want to call it that.

[00:36:32] So, yeah, if Villeneuve was still attached to it, I'm sure it would be, they would have a lot more breathing room, like you said.

[00:36:38] And John, you had a note in your outline, the impact of the writer's strike.

[00:36:44] Yeah, so that's, that's also a consideration to have when you're looking at this.

[00:36:51] I might have my timelines wrong, but my understanding was that principal photography was happening during the writer's strike, and it was happening during SAG-AFTRA.

[00:37:01] And all, a lot of these British actors aren't SAG-AFTRA, which is why they were still shooting it and everything.

[00:37:07] Right, they're equity, yeah.

[00:37:08] Yeah.

[00:37:09] But the writers weren't on set then.

[00:37:11] Right.

[00:37:11] Right.

[00:37:11] And I feel like had the writers been on set and, you know, there to make the changes that they do, because, you know, I am not in the industry.

[00:37:21] Zach and I have a couple of friends that are, you know, actors and actresses that are in the industry and, you know, conversations that we've had with them is that there are always writers there.

[00:37:32] They're making changes within minutes of, you know, one shot.

[00:37:35] And then another shot's going to be essentially the same substance, but completely different lines, because it just makes more sense.

[00:37:42] And if we don't have those writers there that are there to supervise and, you know, make those updates as needed, sometimes we can run into some weird inconsistencies and stuff.

[00:37:54] Which is one of the things that makes me most angry at studio executives when they're looking at line items to cut.

[00:38:01] Don't cut the writers, because that's the fountainhead.

[00:38:04] That's the source for all of this, that these human beings who have as lived experiences, who are studied and have, they talk and they think and they create together.

[00:38:16] Nothing else comes until you have people thinking that, and that's what makes good product.

[00:38:21] Yeah, but you don't have to pay for benefits for Chad GPT.

[00:38:27] Do you think the Butlerians would be a little upset with us if...

[00:38:32] Yeah, well, that's what's so ironic.

[00:38:36] Right, and it's timely for this show right now.

[00:38:39] I mean, it's everywhere now.

[00:38:42] It's in my, it's on my phone.

[00:38:43] It's in my email.

[00:38:44] I can't not have, I'm not, not exposed somewhere on my digital online life.

[00:38:49] Just a peek into my personal life.

[00:38:51] I was talking with my boss today and he was encouraging me to use Chad GPT for like writing in-year reviews for people.

[00:38:57] And I was like, I don't, I don't feel comfortable with this.

[00:39:00] I was like, no, I was like, no, I think I'm just going to write them, man.

[00:39:03] I've been doing that for years.

[00:39:04] I think I'm just going to write them.

[00:39:05] I was on a Reddit thread looking at the Claude AI stuff in there, but it's not even writing.

[00:39:12] People are using it for coding, for database analysis, for creating complex systems that are, you know, moving data from one system to another system and taking outputs and then running it back.

[00:39:24] Like in, or something that takes somebody an hour to finagle with the AI systems would have taken weeks coding manually.

[00:39:34] It's, so there's, there's.

[00:39:36] But the errors, like you're going to be so much harder to find because you didn't create the code yourself.

[00:39:41] Like debugging has got to be a bitch when you do that.

[00:39:44] But the coders seem to be loving it.

[00:39:46] They seem to be going crazy and, and it's working.

[00:39:49] I mean, according, you know, cause people on Reddit are not shy about their opinions and there's a lot of.

[00:39:54] And they're never wrong.

[00:39:55] And they're never wrong either.

[00:39:57] That's a very good point.

[00:39:59] So it's, but it's everywhere and we can't escape it right now.

[00:40:02] I mean, Google's pushing it on me, on my Gmail.

[00:40:05] I'm like, no, I don't want AI to respond to my emails for me.

[00:40:08] So it's.

[00:40:10] I think Frank would have a stroke if he was just dropped into.

[00:40:15] Right.

[00:40:16] And 2024 and like,

[00:40:17] it's bombarded with all these ads from Google and Facebook and everything about their different AI products and stuff.

[00:40:24] Yeah.

[00:40:25] Did nobody read my books?

[00:40:26] He warned us about this.

[00:40:29] That's right.

[00:40:31] Let's, let's think a little bit about Desmond Hart.

[00:40:36] And what, what the magic space wizard googly eye man is, is bringing to the story.

[00:40:42] Well, y'all know I was, I was riding hard on the goal of theory after the first episode.

[00:40:48] And I would have, my, my tune has since changed.

[00:40:52] Okay.

[00:40:53] But I, I still think that would have been cool.

[00:40:56] Okay.

[00:40:58] Um, I don't, yeah, I don't really know what to think about him now.

[00:41:01] Uh, you know, it's, uh, yeah, it's, I hope it's not magic.

[00:41:06] And I'm going to say that a couple more times as we're, uh, as we're recording this, it better not be magic.

[00:41:11] Yeah.

[00:41:12] Yeah.

[00:41:12] I just want somebody to get him a new uniform.

[00:41:15] I mean, it's been wearing the same dusty outfit since he showed up.

[00:41:18] I mean, I'm sure it's propaganda, but, uh, yeah, come on, give us costuming.

[00:41:23] We're only here for six episodes.

[00:41:25] That's right.

[00:41:25] Give us a show.

[00:41:26] I did notice that in the, when he was burning, um, what's his name?

[00:41:33] The Duke.

[00:41:34] Um, yeah.

[00:41:36] I reach a, uh, there, when he stopped, there was a little mechanical sound effect that went and like turned off.

[00:41:45] And if you're listening to it, like I didn't pick it up the first time, but on my second watch, I heard it and I'm like, huh, is that, is that a clue?

[00:41:52] Or is that just straight up sound effects?

[00:41:54] They're just trying to, you know, create a rich soundscape.

[00:41:57] Or is that like, no, if you go back when we reveal and you go back, you know, there's, there's all the little evidences floating around, you know, are, are they playing, are they playing games with the Reddit detectives by sort of obfuscating these, like, you know, hiding these little clues in various places.

[00:42:15] Scenes and stuff.

[00:42:17] Yeah.

[00:42:18] I can tell you, I've watched all of Desmond's scenes probably five or six times going back to Jenkins and rewatching it over and over and over and over.

[00:42:28] Um, for the way that I take notes, obviously with going minute by minute, you have to really dive in between the seconds.

[00:42:38] Right.

[00:42:38] Yeah.

[00:42:39] Um, I have yet to see anything that they're trying to like be cheeky about hiding.

[00:42:45] Um, the one thing that I did notice is just in the time when Valia is interrogating him, his right eye, his bad eye, uh, gets a little, you know, flickery and shiny stuff on the inside of it.

[00:42:59] Okay.

[00:42:59] But that could also just be one of those things where it's like, you have a fire in the corner and if there are a reflection of the light off of that.

[00:43:06] So like, I can't put too much, um, put too much thought into those.

[00:43:14] Could he have a mechanical eye?

[00:43:15] Unfortunately, I don't have this on a Blu-ray.

[00:43:17] Unfortunately, I don't have this on a Blu-ray, so I can't, you know, get it at the highest quality.

[00:43:22] Right.

[00:43:22] Right, right.

[00:43:22] We're beholden to internet compression.

[00:43:25] Could he have though, like a mechanical eye that's somehow projecting something that's cooking people from the inside out?

[00:43:34] Alicia, you've, you've read the book or sisterhood.

[00:43:36] Right.

[00:43:37] So there's the, the two characters that are like the machines, but people, um, are like Erasmus.

[00:43:45] Oh, yes.

[00:43:46] Yeah.

[00:43:46] We're, we're, you can, we can talk.

[00:43:48] You're in full spoilers.

[00:43:49] Yeah.

[00:43:49] We're, well, I couldn't remember the name.

[00:43:51] Sorry.

[00:43:51] Okay.

[00:43:53] Um, so there's like the notion of, uh, you know, created machines that can pass as people in the books.

[00:44:01] Um, so that is still like.

[00:44:05] Yeah.

[00:44:05] Yeah.

[00:44:06] That really is, it's kind of a, a well that is, um, untapped so far within the story.

[00:44:11] So I think three episodes is going to be a short amount of time if they want to go down that road.

[00:44:16] Yeah.

[00:44:17] So I would, that would be probably ill-fated, uh, at the end of things.

[00:44:22] Um, but I, that's still something that could happen.

[00:44:27] Right.

[00:44:27] Can I tell you guys my pet theory about Desmond as of today?

[00:44:30] Well, I think this is a good time.

[00:44:32] Let's, let's switch into prediction.

[00:44:33] So, uh, Alicia, why don't you kick us off with a round of predictions?

[00:44:37] Okay.

[00:44:37] So Albert, the, you know, the Tully kid who ran away.

[00:44:42] Um, my prediction is maybe he grew up and became Desmond.

[00:44:46] And so he's like undercover trying to take down everyone or hurt his family or something.

[00:44:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:44:53] I think you'd be the right age.

[00:44:55] Well, he would be the right age into that because that, that flashback scene was free BG.

[00:45:04] Um, it's about 30 years.

[00:45:06] The other, the other thing too, though, is that Desmond has a little bit of a limp going on.

[00:45:11] Uh, so I can see that.

[00:45:14] One thing that I've also seen online is that I don't know how much credence I can put to this theory, but the theory that Desmond is Vorian.

[00:45:24] Um, because Vorian has his age or his age slowing procedure and everything.

[00:45:32] And according to the books at this time, he looks like he's in his like mid thirties ish.

[00:45:38] I, if I wasn't, you know, thinking about Golas or face dancers after episode one, I was considering some kind of Ixian technology because the Ixians were very, we still need computers.

[00:45:53] We still need these thinking machines to provide us, you know, with technology to advance.

[00:45:58] So maybe it's some kind of Ixian device, you know, to your point about it, you know, having that mechanical click or whatever.

[00:46:07] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:08] Plus the Ixians are, you know, they are rivals with the Vichese.

[00:46:13] So it makes sense that he would go after them.

[00:46:15] Exactly.

[00:46:17] Hmm.

[00:46:17] Interesting.

[00:46:18] That's a, that's a solid, uh, solid theory.

[00:46:21] Do you have, uh, any more predictions?

[00:46:24] Um, I mean, I just think, I don't know.

[00:46:26] I wrote down Lila's mom, but what do I think about Lila's mom?

[00:46:31] Do I think that they took D I'm hoping that they took.

[00:46:35] Like eggs from Dorotea after she died and created a baby.

[00:46:40] And that's why Lila can, she knows about, um, her own death in Lila's view of her.

[00:46:48] And maybe she's actually Lila's mom because otherwise I don't know why Lila's mom wouldn't be there, whether she's dead or alive.

[00:46:53] But I'm worried that, again, it's another thing where they misunderstood the lore.

[00:46:58] Um, because the, yeah.

[00:47:01] Otherwise genetic memory is supposed to come like from supposed to like from the point of conception.

[00:47:08] Right.

[00:47:08] Yeah.

[00:47:09] Yeah.

[00:47:09] So, I mean, if it was like a artificial birth or artificial conception or anything, that would make sense that their mom's not technically there.

[00:47:15] Right.

[00:47:16] Right.

[00:47:17] And this is where they're starting to get, if they're getting tricksy, it's like, uh, you, you start to, the more complex the thing gets, the more it can crumble.

[00:47:27] It can kind of fall apart if they're, if they don't do it right, quite right.

[00:47:30] I mean, the last three episodes are supposed to be bangers.

[00:47:33] So I don't know.

[00:47:33] So my question for you guys is, do we think this is going to end well?

[00:47:39] Do we think this is going to end well for Valia?

[00:47:41] And do we think this is going to end well for Lila?

[00:47:45] Will both of them be alive at the end of the season?

[00:47:49] Zach, you've got a prediction here listed.

[00:47:52] Why don't you?

[00:47:52] Yeah.

[00:47:53] So I'm, I'm going to, I would, if I was a betting man, I would put money on this.

[00:47:58] Um, that Lila will, uh, be like one of the first like abominations.

[00:48:03] Okay.

[00:48:04] We see, and it's going to be an abomination via Dorotea.

[00:48:07] I mean, I think they set that up very, very well at the end of episode one.

[00:48:11] I put, I put internet points down on that.

[00:48:13] Yeah.

[00:48:14] On episode two.

[00:48:15] Yeah.

[00:48:16] So that's, I think that's, that would be a very safe avenue for them to go down with the Lila character.

[00:48:22] Um, and which would be really interesting to see, um, like how they, they portray that.

[00:48:27] Uh, Lila also an anagram of Aaliyah.

[00:48:30] Not that that matters, but that's an interesting little thing.

[00:48:33] Um, so yeah, I think it's, I think that's kind of how they're going to take it.

[00:48:38] Got it.

[00:48:39] Uh, John, did you have a Lila addiction thought?

[00:48:42] Well, so I was going to just expand on that.

[00:48:44] Yeah.

[00:48:44] Lila is absolutely going to become one of the first, if not the first abominations.

[00:48:49] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:50] And I think they're going to be in a situation where Tula is going to have to take care of her, not in a comforting way.

[00:48:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:59] Uh, but you know, she's going to have to handle the, yeah.

[00:49:02] Yeah.

[00:49:02] She's going to have to handle the abomination issue.

[00:49:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:49:05] Going back and thinking on it as well, and I, and I hate to do this because we kind of left, you know, Desmond behind us, but something, I was listening to another content creator earlier today.

[00:49:21] And they, they said something to the extent of, there is a possibility that Desmond is also the child of Tula and Ori because Tula is pregnant in the books, but I don't fully know that extended lore long, far enough to know if she like gets rid of the baby or if she has the baby and, you know, puts it up, whatever.

[00:49:44] If anything, I would think it would be Lila because Desmond's too old, but yeah.

[00:49:48] Um.

[00:49:48] Lila's too young.

[00:49:49] I took Desmond and Tula to be around the same age.

[00:49:53] Maybe, I don't know.

[00:49:54] It was, it was just another theory that I had seen online and figured it was, you know, worth bringing to y'all's attention to see your thoughts on it.

[00:50:02] But yeah, no, as far as the abomination thing with Lila, she's, that's almost certain at this point.

[00:50:08] And I think Tula is going to have to, you know, be there to take care of it in that whole situation.

[00:50:13] So.

[00:50:14] But you've got here a shrinking possibility of Lato the two.

[00:50:18] So what's that prediction?

[00:50:20] Yeah.

[00:50:20] So episode one, once born in blood, once born in spice.

[00:50:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:50:25] And then we had the, you know, glowing red eyes and the giant.

[00:50:29] Blue eyes.

[00:50:29] Blue eyes.

[00:50:30] Sorry, yeah.

[00:50:31] The glowing blue eyes and then the giant Shihalud, you know, consuming the school.

[00:50:37] I was all on for, you know, this is Lato the second.

[00:50:41] Golden path.

[00:50:41] Yeah.

[00:50:42] Yeah.

[00:50:42] Yeah.

[00:50:42] Yeah.

[00:50:43] This is it.

[00:50:44] Because, you know, he does effectively take over the entire, you know, breeding index and, you know.

[00:50:50] Yep.

[00:50:51] Basically everything the Bene Gesserit are doing at that point.

[00:50:55] Now, I don't see them going into Lato the second really at this point because with the amount of spice that Lila is being subjected to, I don't think it's unreasonable for this abomination to have the eyes of Ebad.

[00:51:12] Mm-hmm.

[00:51:12] What else you got for predictions?

[00:51:15] So, Ciaran's rebellion is kind of a powder keg that we're sitting on right now.

[00:51:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:51:19] And I think there's potential for Havako to die.

[00:51:25] And with Inez out of picture for 10 years, Constantine gets put on the throne.

[00:51:32] Even though they've said he has no claim to it.

[00:51:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:51:35] Which further will create a degree of chaos within the Imperium.

[00:51:41] Okay.

[00:51:42] All right.

[00:51:43] That's not a bad theory.

[00:51:44] It's not a bad theory.

[00:51:45] Yeah.

[00:51:45] I've thought that they must be setting up Constantine for the throne.

[00:51:50] Right.

[00:51:51] Yeah.

[00:51:51] So far, I mean, it's also, we didn't get to spend time with them this episode, but so far, Constantine has not impressed me as being throne material.

[00:52:01] But then again, his father neither, so.

[00:52:03] Right.

[00:52:04] Right.

[00:52:04] I mean, if you only look at other HBO properties, was Joffrey really throne material?

[00:52:10] Oh, but he has good television.

[00:52:12] He was fantastic television.

[00:52:14] Yes.

[00:52:15] And George R.

[00:52:16] Martin is significantly better at writing characters than Brian Herbert is.

[00:52:21] Okay.

[00:52:21] But the thing is, they're not doing the characters like, okay.

[00:52:24] I was also, normally I really embrace an adaptation and changes, but I got a little bit book cloaky during House of the Dragon.

[00:52:33] And now I'm getting even more book cloaky now.

[00:52:39] John, does that wrap it up for you for predictions?

[00:52:42] Yeah.

[00:52:43] I mean, we're going to have to just see what goes on from here.

[00:52:49] I think, you know, not harp on a point, but having them limited to six episodes is really going to turn around and bite them in the ass.

[00:52:58] Yeah, for sure.

[00:52:59] Zach, you have a few open bullet points here.

[00:53:03] What else do you have?

[00:53:04] I think I've talked about most of them.

[00:53:07] Don't be magic.

[00:53:07] Please don't be magic.

[00:53:08] Don't be magic.

[00:53:13] So I think we spent a lot of time and the whole show has spent a lot of time kind of exploring the animosity that, or I'll say the chip on the shoulder that Valya has been carrying her whole life.

[00:53:28] Yeah.

[00:53:29] So I think that towards the end of this, we're going to get some kind of redemption arc for the Harkonnens and, you know, or at least the setting or the place setting for that to happen.

[00:53:42] Okay.

[00:53:44] Whether that's there, you know, they get back into good graces with the throne or they move to Gaty Prime or whatever that may be.

[00:53:52] I think there's going to be some kind of story that's going to happen there.

[00:53:55] It may probably like a B or a C story in the show, but I think it'll be there.

[00:54:00] Yeah.

[00:54:01] I have the same thing for a prediction that we're going to see the catalytic event that is going to change their fortunes.

[00:54:08] Yep.

[00:54:08] Yep.

[00:54:09] Right.

[00:54:10] And they will become the Harkonnens that we know and love, I guess.

[00:54:13] Right.

[00:54:15] Anything else?

[00:54:16] The only other thing, this is something super small, but, you know, we're so close in like the timeline to Abraham Holtzman.

[00:54:24] I was really hoping we'd get a little bit of stuff from him.

[00:54:28] Look, they're not saying Butlerian Jihad, so I don't know if they're going to say Holtzman.

[00:54:31] They don't even, have they even mentioned the Mentats?

[00:54:34] No.

[00:54:35] No.

[00:54:35] They haven't.

[00:54:36] No, they haven't.

[00:54:37] So, I don't know.

[00:54:38] That's just a very small thing.

[00:54:40] They haven't even mentioned a Guild Navigator, have they?

[00:54:42] No.

[00:54:43] Not that I know of.

[00:54:44] I only want a Navigator if it's Doug Jones.

[00:54:50] Reprising his role from Wittacoltz.

[00:54:52] Well, so he played Abe Sapien in Hellboy, which is.

[00:54:55] No, but I mean the one where he plays the fish.

[00:54:57] What's it called?

[00:54:59] With Sally.

[00:55:00] Oh, The Water.

[00:55:02] Yeah, yeah.

[00:55:03] The Sound of Water?

[00:55:05] I don't know.

[00:55:06] Don't worry.

[00:55:06] I don't remember.

[00:55:07] You know, when they first announced the series and they said it was going to be set 10,000 years before the movies in Dune, I was like, hell yeah, we're getting Holtzman.

[00:55:15] That's right around the time that he was doing his stuff, or at least the tail end of it.

[00:55:19] I was like, awesome.

[00:55:21] My boy's going to be there.

[00:55:22] Yeah, Sheep of Water.

[00:55:23] That's what it was.

[00:55:26] And then, yeah, we're not going to get it.

[00:55:28] So, what does forever be living in my heart, I guess?

[00:55:33] All right, here's my markers.

[00:55:35] We're going to get the origin of the Sardaukar.

[00:55:37] Again, just the proto thing, right?

[00:55:40] Because we see some scenes with Desmond Heart and some troopers with masks and swords and stuff.

[00:55:46] And so, I think, you know, we talk a lot about in the original books that we have the Mentats, we have the Guild, we have the Bene Gesserit, we have the Sadhkar, we have the Lonsrad, all of this stuff.

[00:55:59] But for me, a lot of what the two power centers of the Imperium are the Bene Gesserit and the Sadhkar.

[00:56:08] Because the Sadhkar is the giant lever that the Emperor can use to, you know, maneuver the lands we're at.

[00:56:16] Because he says, well, I send these guys and five minutes later, you're dead.

[00:56:20] Right?

[00:56:20] That is his ultimate power.

[00:56:22] And we see Haviko just being a bumbling idiot here, you know, not mince by words.

[00:56:29] And he doesn't have any leverage.

[00:56:31] And so, I think Desmond Heart is going to create what will become the Sadhkar for him eventually.

[00:56:38] I think it's pretty obvious that we're going to have this, you know, this is the catalytic moment that spice becomes the preferred method for the agony.

[00:56:47] Once in blood, once in spice.

[00:56:49] Exactly.

[00:56:50] Yeah.

[00:56:50] And we're going to move away from the Rasek Poison and this is going to be it.

[00:56:53] And concurrent with that, is this the show that gives us, you know, actually gives the name Bene Gesserit to the sisterhood?

[00:57:01] Do we see the, you know, some little spark of that?

[00:57:05] Again, a catalytic element like the Harkonnens or something like that.

[00:57:09] Is there something in there where they drop some little hint that says, oh, you know, we're going to get to Bene Gesserit as a official title.

[00:57:17] Oh, I like that.

[00:57:18] Yeah.

[00:57:19] I mentioned the Harkonnen family thing.

[00:57:21] And yeah, I guess I'm with you, John.

[00:57:24] I feel the golden path slipping further and further away for every choice that they've made.

[00:57:29] Our prescience for reading the books is getting diverging further and further.

[00:57:34] So I don't know if we're going to get any Leto 2 in this at all.

[00:57:38] I feel like, unfortunately, at this point, Leto 2 is going to have to be a part of like an animated series, which isn't a bad thing.

[00:57:47] But just with as weird as God Emperor is, it might be just easier to do if you animate it.

[00:57:56] Right.

[00:57:56] So Alicia, you were going to say?

[00:57:59] I just, I hope episode 4 drops and we're all like, we were so wrong.

[00:58:04] And it's...

[00:58:06] I think we would all love that.

[00:58:08] We all have those, the same issues.

[00:58:10] We need a Christmas miracle.

[00:58:11] We need a Christmas miracle.

[00:58:41] So I think that the golden path is still there in a sense, but I think Valia might be the person to kind of bring that into, or her successors anyways, would be the kind of that idea still building.

[00:58:56] Right.

[00:58:57] Right.

[00:58:57] See, I thought that that's what this going in, I assume that that's what this show would be about, would be about them coming to the point where, you know, they start organizing these prophecies to distribute around the galaxy to pave the way.

[00:59:14] And, you know, and I thought maybe, as we saw Desmond, I thought maybe he would be some sort of prototype, Krizette's Haderach, that makes them, because they said something about a path too short.

[00:59:26] So not the golden path, but a path too short.

[00:59:28] And that would inspire the rest, you know, the plans that stretched on millennia.

[00:59:36] So I still, I think there's still hope for that.

[00:59:39] I feel like...

[00:59:40] I had a theory that Desmond was a failed Benny Tleilax Krizette's Haderach.

[00:59:48] I don't know how much, you know, water that theory holds, but, you know, it's...

[00:59:55] With the Benny Tleilax and Nixians, things get weird.

[00:59:59] So, you know, I'm fine if they want to get weird with it.

[01:00:02] Do I think it's practical?

[01:00:04] Probably not.

[01:00:05] But, you know, it's an idea.

[01:00:07] But the Krizette's Haderach is an idea that's born out of the fact that the Benny Gesserit have been about their business for a while,

[01:00:12] and they're realizing that they have a gap, and that they're not able to...

[01:00:16] They keep running into little pitfalls or snags or something like that, and they realize,

[01:00:20] oh, well, we're short something.

[01:00:22] Oh, we need the male Benny Gesserit.

[01:00:26] So for the Benny Tleilax to come up with a Krizette's Haderach at this point,

[01:00:31] and the whole question of prescience, I wonder if that theory is...

[01:00:35] I mean, I'm all for the Benny Tleilax doing some weird stuff,

[01:00:39] but I don't know if we can actually get into the Krizette's Haderach at this stage.

[01:00:45] I don't know.

[01:00:46] I don't know when they would have...

[01:00:47] Yeah, I think it's way early for that.

[01:00:48] Yeah.

[01:00:49] That was my whole thing about Golas and everything was really early.

[01:00:52] But if they are the...

[01:00:54] Because we found out that Desmond's from Balut,

[01:00:57] and I don't know if they'll get into this,

[01:01:01] but it just so happened that, you know,

[01:01:03] she's like, harsh world for a kid to grow up,

[01:01:05] and it's because Tleilaxi basically ravaged the planet

[01:01:10] and took a bunch of slaves from it.

[01:01:12] So maybe that's just a random planet they dropped,

[01:01:17] but I like to think they're setting something up.

[01:01:20] Right.

[01:01:21] We can hope.

[01:01:24] Right.

[01:01:24] Well, we just hit the hour-ish mark on our recording,

[01:01:27] and we promised ourselves that we wouldn't go two hours,

[01:01:29] even though we know we could easily do that.

[01:01:32] But we all have other lives to get to.

[01:01:34] So let's wrap it up from there.

[01:01:37] What is on the schedule for Dune Minute Podcast,

[01:01:40] and where can people find you if they want to find your podcast?

[01:01:44] Sure.

[01:01:44] So we actually are a week out from our last episode for Dune Part 1.

[01:01:51] Okay.

[01:01:52] We should start working.

[01:01:53] Yeah.

[01:01:54] We need to party.

[01:01:55] We need some tea.

[01:01:56] We need some coffee service.

[01:01:58] No.

[01:01:59] No.

[01:01:59] Gross.

[01:02:00] Zach loves...

[01:02:01] I hate the coffee service.

[01:02:02] It's disgusting to me.

[01:02:04] Oh, my God.

[01:02:05] You just want to think, wait till they make cake for you.

[01:02:08] No.

[01:02:09] No.

[01:02:10] No.

[01:02:12] No.

[01:02:32] Yeah.

[01:02:32] Thank you.

[01:02:33] Thank you.

[01:02:33] Thank you.

[01:02:34] And your discipline at sticking to the minute.

[01:02:36] The other day, you were like, well, they were talking and their dialogue got cut off.

[01:02:41] That's the end of the minute.

[01:02:43] Words will get cut off exactly at the minute line, and we will stop in the middle of that word.

[01:02:48] I admire your discipline.

[01:02:50] So the best place to find us, well, we're in a few different places.

[01:02:55] Blue Sky is where we have the largest active community of people that are getting in touch with us and everything.

[01:03:01] On Blue Sky, we are at duneminute.com.

[01:03:04] We are also on Instagram.

[01:03:06] If you search for The Dune Minute, we are there.

[01:03:10] And people can also email...

[01:03:12] I messed up the name when I created it.

[01:03:13] I've added the the in front of it instead of just Dune Minute.

[01:03:16] So my bad.

[01:03:17] Sorry.

[01:03:18] Yeah.

[01:03:18] That's all Zach's fault.

[01:03:20] But then people can also email duneminute at gmail.com to send in either feedback or requests or stuff.

[01:03:28] We've had a couple of people do that already and everything.

[01:03:32] Do you guys...

[01:03:32] Yeah.

[01:03:33] Do you do any feedback?

[01:03:34] So one of our most notorious feedback moments was Zach had a nasty habit of saying, we're talking about minutes, you know, 137 through 138.

[01:03:44] And we had someone who would be like, actually, it's minute 137 through 138.

[01:03:51] And, you know, I saw that email and just got on Zach about it.

[01:03:54] So we've had some ideas.

[01:04:03] And one of those ideas is actually something that we are going to start doing in the break between part one and two.

[01:04:10] And that is what we're calling summer school.

[01:04:13] Now I'm getting a little ahead of our release schedule here because we announced this next week.

[01:04:18] But, you know, whatever.

[01:04:19] It's fine.

[01:04:20] It's a soft teaser.

[01:04:22] Summer school are...

[01:04:23] Yeah.

[01:04:24] Summer school episodes are going to be two a month.

[01:04:27] And they're going to be real heavy deep dives into certain things.

[01:04:32] So the first month is all about one entire episode dedicated to Holtzman.

[01:04:38] Which, unlike the show, we will mention him and actually follow up on him.

[01:04:42] And then we'll have an entire episode dedicated to the Butlerian Jihad.

[01:04:47] Great.

[01:04:47] And then we have some other things for...

[01:04:50] And these will all start in January because we want to take time for the holidays for ourselves.

[01:04:55] But then in February, we have some plans for shows.

[01:04:58] In March, we have plans for shows.

[01:04:59] And then we're hoping to get back on our normal schedule with part two, end of March, early April-ish, whenever we decide to start doing that.

[01:05:08] But all of our summer school will lead and tie into part two pretty well.

[01:05:14] Cool.

[01:05:15] I think we should maybe come back together as a group after Prophecy's over and see where we were, where we are.

[01:05:23] But yeah, you can just put in...

[01:05:25] How wrong we were.

[01:05:25] What's it?

[01:05:26] How wrong we were.

[01:05:27] How wrong we were.

[01:05:28] Yeah, if you just plug in Dune Minute on your podcast player of choice, these guys will pop up.

[01:05:35] So definitely go subscribe.

[01:05:36] It's also on YouTube as well.

[01:05:39] So if people like getting their podcasts on YouTube, we're there.

[01:05:43] We've got playlists for it all too.

[01:05:45] Nice.

[01:05:45] Good job.

[01:05:46] We kind of throw our episodes at YouTube, but we don't really do a lot of organizing over there.

[01:05:50] So we've got more podcast episodes to produce.

[01:05:54] We don't have time to mess around with the hosting platforms.

[01:05:58] Alicia, do you want to plug Lorehound's schedule a little bit?

[01:06:01] Right.

[01:06:01] So obviously we're doing the weekly Doom Prophecy breakdowns.

[01:06:06] And also there's going to be some coverage of Skeleton Crew, which the first couple episodes were great.

[01:06:15] Fantastic.

[01:06:15] Adorable.

[01:06:16] Perfect.

[01:06:16] Everything I hoped for.

[01:06:18] Unfortunately, I'm so busy with this.

[01:06:20] It's going to be John and Marilyn.

[01:06:22] But yeah, and there's going to be a Wicked episode coming up.

[01:06:25] And the Christmas Netflix coverage.

[01:06:29] We're going to...

[01:06:31] David...

[01:06:31] Hot Frosty.

[01:06:33] David loves Hot Frosty now.

[01:06:35] It's his favorite film of the year.

[01:06:37] I have thoughts.

[01:06:38] We're going to talk about it.

[01:06:40] That and Our Little Secret.

[01:06:42] I've got to ask on that.

[01:06:43] What's the favorite Christmas movie looking like this year so far?

[01:06:47] If I can ask.

[01:06:48] Was Hot Frosty leading it?

[01:06:50] I mean, Our Little Secret seems to be up there in the Netflix.

[01:06:53] I didn't look at the Netflix in the last couple of years.

[01:06:55] Yeah, I'm not sure how it's ranked.

[01:06:56] Because I'm also at the same time I'm doing for Will Shift Dust, I'm doing a deep dive into A Christmas Carol.

[01:07:03] So I'm actually even watching even more of those than the Netflix movies.

[01:07:07] Right.

[01:07:07] And of course, you have weekly coverage of Will Shift Dust.

[01:07:10] Yeah.

[01:07:10] On your feed?

[01:07:12] On the Will Shift Dust feed, covering Silo with, you know, there's the weekly breakdowns and mailbags and extra episodes for subscribers with deep dives into spoiler topics.

[01:07:25] And then just to throw in one other thing.

[01:07:28] The Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast is getting back on track, going through the High Republic with the episodes I mentioned lots of times are in the notes.

[01:07:38] But also for the Canon Padawan subscribers, I'm starting a series on the High Republic books where I'm going to do one book at a time and then do a summary episode for the public feed once I've done.

[01:07:51] I don't know how Alicia does it.

[01:07:53] John, I feel like we need to pick up the pace, man.

[01:07:56] This is...

[01:07:59] No, I'm good.

[01:08:00] Thanks.

[01:08:02] I'll plug in one of my little side projects to myself and Ian from the Captain's Pod, which is a Star Trek podcast, part of the CinemaSins universe.

[01:08:11] He and I recorded about a two-ish hour podcast about Star Trek, the motion picture, because it's the 45th anniversary on December 7th.

[01:08:21] And so we'll release that episode on there as well.

[01:08:26] And then, yeah, and then Lorehounds in the future, we've got Severance coming up.

[01:08:29] We've got Andor.

[01:08:30] We've got The Last of Us, White Lotus.

[01:08:33] Wheel of Time.

[01:08:34] Wheel of Time.

[01:08:35] It's going to be a very busy year.

[01:08:37] Oscar season.

[01:08:38] Oscar season, right?

[01:08:39] That as well.

[01:08:40] Oh, don't remind me about that.

[01:08:41] Like, oh, no.

[01:08:42] The whole other thing.

[01:08:43] Well, that's my thing to worry about.

[01:08:45] You guys will be on Severance.

[01:08:46] I know.

[01:08:47] Well, we've got to show up, right?

[01:08:48] We've got to be there for you on that.

[01:08:50] So anyway, we've got a lot going on at Lorehounds.

[01:08:52] Lorehounds.com.

[01:08:53] Links in the show notes for everything.

[01:08:54] Make sure we'll have links for a Dune Minute podcast there as well.

[01:08:58] Zach, John, it's been an absolute pleasure.

[01:09:00] I look forward to talking to you at the end of the season.

[01:09:02] Alicia, thank you for today.

[01:09:04] And I know your scheduling is off of ours, so I appreciate making time for this conversation.

[01:09:10] But it's fun, and hopefully we can do some more fun Dune stuff together in the future.

[01:09:15] Yeah, this has been a lot of fun.

[01:09:16] I really appreciate you all having us on.

[01:09:17] Great.

[01:09:18] Yeah, it was a good time.

[01:09:20] And as far as that Star Trek podcast, if you guys ever need another guest, Zach is.

[01:09:26] The only thing I like more than Dune is.

[01:09:30] Well, Ian and I are threatening to do a full movie podcast series, but I don't know when

[01:09:36] we're going to find the time for that.

[01:09:37] But okay, cool.

[01:09:39] All right, everybody.

[01:09:39] Have a good night.

[01:09:40] Thanks.

[01:09:40] And we'll talk to you on the next episode.

[01:09:42] Thanks.

[01:09:42] Bye.

[01:09:44] Bye.

[01:09:53] Thanks for listening.

[01:09:55] Bye.

[01:09:56] Bye.

[01:09:58] slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of

[01:10:02] or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.