Dune: Prophecy - S01E05 - In Blood Truth

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[00:00:47] Dune Prophecy Podcast

[00:00:49] We are the Lorehounds, your guides to the secrets of the Sisterhood.

[00:00:52] I'm David.

[00:00:53] And I'm Alicia and this is our coverage of the penultimate episode of the HBO series Dune Prophecy Episode 5, In Blood Truth.

[00:01:02] We're gonna kick off this episode with some admin and then we'll get into our hot takes and analysis

[00:01:10] and then we'll get into a scene by scene breakdown followed by feedback.

[00:01:15] And then at the very, very end, we'll do a little bit of deep dive book spoilery stuff.

[00:01:20] So if you want to also be involved in the feedback, we want to hear from you.

[00:01:25] We want to hear your thoughts on the show and this universe.

[00:01:28] So please send those thoughts to dune at the lorehounds.com.

[00:01:31] And thank you as always to Nancy, our hand of the pod for helping us sort through those emails

[00:01:38] and helping us put together the feedback document.

[00:01:41] Absolutely. And the show guide. If you've not been around for some of our deeper dive shows,

[00:01:47] sometimes we put together a onscreen show guide to help keep oriented to characters and plot.

[00:01:54] And Nancy has been writing amazing episode by episode recaps and those are on the show guide

[00:02:01] along with onscreen characters, some timeline stuff.

[00:02:05] You can find all of that resource on our notion page. There's a link show note below.

[00:02:12] And again, if you're also interested in joining the conversation, we've got a really active community discord.

[00:02:20] It's a lot of fun. We've got a great mod team.

[00:02:22] So we invite you to join there.

[00:02:24] And there is a lot of discussion going on about this show.

[00:02:28] And if you want to support the community and make sure that we can keep doing these podcasts,

[00:02:33] then you can join our super cast and Patreon.

[00:02:36] You can find those links in the show notes.

[00:02:38] We'll have a little more information at the end.

[00:02:40] But basically, you get there also extras like extra movie reviews and usually second breakfast episodes.

[00:02:46] This month, you get some extra Netflix Christmas.

[00:02:49] It has been an extra cheesy Christmas.

[00:02:52] Did you guys get the extra Vanessa?

[00:02:55] Which ones are you doing again?

[00:02:57] The Hudgens one we still have to do.

[00:02:59] The Hudgens verse.

[00:03:00] Yeah, we're going to do it 1am my time.

[00:03:02] Okay.

[00:03:05] How are you doing?

[00:03:06] I know we're both a little bit under the vacation time pressure.

[00:03:11] We're both heading off for the holidays very soon.

[00:03:14] So it feels like the walls are closing in a little bit.

[00:03:19] Yeah.

[00:03:19] I mean, you know that I've been melting down for the past couple months and now I need to somehow fix everything within the next two days.

[00:03:25] So I'm fine.

[00:03:26] I'm fine.

[00:03:26] I'm just fine.

[00:03:27] Great.

[00:03:27] And I love it when there's like these big deep IP shows right in the going right into the holidays.

[00:03:33] Gee, thanks.

[00:03:34] Right.

[00:03:34] Yeah.

[00:03:34] Stop with the December releases.

[00:03:36] Oh, my Lord.

[00:03:37] I started catching up with Black Doves and I'm about four episodes in.

[00:03:41] And yeah, I can't believe that they jammed it in at the end.

[00:03:45] It's pretty good.

[00:03:47] So on that note, I think this is going to be a little bit faster of an episode.

[00:03:52] And we'll talk a little bit more about it.

[00:03:54] But I think with the scene by scene recaps, my notes, they're going to be really short this time.

[00:04:00] And we're just going to touch on it.

[00:04:01] And I think we're probably going to focus a little bit more on the lore and the basics of the plot mechanics and less about our feelings about things.

[00:04:09] I don't know how you're feeling about things, but this might be the episode that zagged in a lot of people.

[00:04:15] We got a lot of feedback saying people are struggling a little bit by this.

[00:04:18] So we can get into that in a minute.

[00:04:22] We also had some conversation about the extended universe book comparison.

[00:04:28] And we also got a lot of feedback saying that people kind of enjoy having you, Alicia, give us some insights into some of what the other book plots are.

[00:04:37] So I guess we'll keep kind of trying to walk that fine line.

[00:04:39] I don't know what your thoughts were on that.

[00:04:41] Yeah.

[00:04:42] I mean, I will bring up a lore as it, you know, as I think it's helpful, but I've also just given up on, and we'll talk about one thing in particular this episode where I'm like, no, okay.

[00:04:53] They just don't care.

[00:04:55] But it is funny though.

[00:04:58] There's some rumblings about maybe that they are exploring a season two.

[00:05:03] I saw that in our discord.

[00:05:04] Yeah.

[00:05:05] You comment and somebody else posted a link, I think.

[00:05:07] Yeah.

[00:05:08] Was it for Alicia or something?

[00:05:09] But anyway, yeah, it's in the article.

[00:05:12] I had to laugh that they, they were saying, and we have the books in the room where it's going to be based on the books.

[00:05:18] So like, why did they feel the need to say that?

[00:05:22] But I do also have to say that they were saying the exact same thing about the acolytes.

[00:05:28] So people don't hold your breath.

[00:05:30] Right.

[00:05:31] Well, and yeah, HBO versus Disney, but we can't trust it.

[00:05:35] Well, no, HBO has been awful since Zaslav took over.

[00:05:39] They've been worse.

[00:05:41] Yeah.

[00:05:41] Yeah.

[00:05:41] Although I'm not happy with Iger either for now for other reasons, but yeah.

[00:05:46] So, uh, we'll have some OG, uh, original book, uh, deep dive talk at the very end because we have to, we have to talk a little bit about the blue eyes.

[00:05:55] Mm-hmm .

[00:05:56] And we, uh, last recording, you and I talked about our episode six and season wrap up plans, but I kind of forgot what we decided that we're going to do.

[00:06:06] We're going to do a shorter episode and then a follow up with a season or remind.

[00:06:11] Right.

[00:06:12] I guess, yeah, we were going to do like some more hot takes, free form discussion that we could record the week of Christmas.

[00:06:21] And then the following week to, um, our final mailbag with more wrap up.

[00:06:27] Okay.

[00:06:27] That's right.

[00:06:28] That's right.

[00:06:28] What it was.

[00:06:28] So the, uh, the 24th, you and I were going to record like kind of a hot take cause it's right on, on the front side of Christmas.

[00:06:37] And both of us are going to be traveling outside of our home studios and with our families.

[00:06:42] And so we've got a prop prop, you know, we've got a stroke, uh, uh, structure our schedules for that.

[00:06:48] So we were going to do a morning recording, get that out a little bit more of a quick touch on, uh, key points of the final episode.

[00:06:56] And then later in the week going to record, right?

[00:07:00] You said, uh, uh, wrap more of a wrap up podcast.

[00:07:03] And then following that.

[00:07:04] The next week when I, when I get back.

[00:07:06] Yeah.

[00:07:06] That's right.

[00:07:07] That's what it is.

[00:07:08] And then, so the week after we'll do that.

[00:07:11] And then we were going to do a wrap up wrap up with the Dune Minute podcast guys after that.

[00:07:16] Once we, uh, once we were all back and set that scheduled now.

[00:07:21] So that's the plan.

[00:07:22] Look for a short hot take.

[00:07:24] And then about a week later, uh, a bit more of a wrap up the, um, listener feedback.

[00:07:30] So, uh, lastly, I just want to reemphasize show guide.

[00:07:36] There's a link in the show notes.

[00:07:38] It's an amazing resource.

[00:07:41] And Nancy has just been doing a great job on the, on the, on the episode recaps.

[00:07:45] It's a really, if you need to go reference and dig in through it, she also does a little theory crafting and points out, uh, there.

[00:07:52] So it's pretty good.

[00:07:54] Right.

[00:07:54] All that admin out of the way.

[00:07:56] Where are you with episode five of six episodes?

[00:08:05] Um, I, you know, okay.

[00:08:08] So first of all, like, I just, I find they are making it unnecessarily confusing.

[00:08:14] And even if you know the lore it's, and you know, for example, this episode, you know, the previous episode ended with, we saw Theodosia, um, doing the face dancing thing.

[00:08:25] And she's transforming and they didn't even mention it this episode.

[00:08:29] What are we doing?

[00:08:30] Mm hmm.

[00:08:32] So at this point, I feel like I cannot make a real assessment until I see where they end the season.

[00:08:40] And then, and maybe they always, maybe they put out like that rumor about a season two, just to calm people because how could they possibly wrap all this up in one more episode after everything they've teased it without explaining.

[00:08:53] It's kind of a crazy train of packing all of this lore in and just railroading it at us.

[00:09:00] Mm hmm.

[00:09:01] And then to create such a mystery box thing where there's this and then there's that and the other thing and plots within plots.

[00:09:08] And then you're just going to wrap it all.

[00:09:11] It's like the episode six is just going to be, uh, ticking boxes.

[00:09:15] Like we're just going to be running through the plot, ticking boxes to, to close down these different story loops.

[00:09:21] So I have to be completely honest about something.

[00:09:24] Part of me is like rejecting in my head at this point, this being canon to the Villeneuve universe.

[00:09:31] Mm hmm.

[00:09:32] I just can't, I can't align it with that.

[00:09:36] And I kind of, part of me hopes.

[00:09:38] I don't know.

[00:09:39] I don't know what I hope for because I, you know, I found it so obnoxious when people say that about other shows, like, I hope it's not canon.

[00:09:44] Like, well, guess what it is.

[00:09:46] But in this case, it's like, it makes so little sense in some places that I hope they come up with it or at least they close the gaps.

[00:09:55] But I don't even know, even if they have a season two where they, you know, draw more from the actual material out there.

[00:10:02] Um, are they going to reintroduce key characters that they seem to have cut out like Anna Carino?

[00:10:07] Mm hmm.

[00:10:08] Um, I don't know how they could even fix this in a season two.

[00:10:11] Yeah.

[00:10:12] Yeah.

[00:10:12] I don't know.

[00:10:13] And it feels to me, and I mentioned this last episode, it's like they, they read the books.

[00:10:20] Yeah.

[00:10:20] The books are in the room.

[00:10:22] I mean, some people who wrote an early draft read the books.

[00:10:25] I do not think the people, I do not think the showrunner read the books.

[00:10:29] Interesting.

[00:10:30] Interesting.

[00:10:31] Because they're just chucking in lines.

[00:10:33] They're like, Oh, that was a cool line.

[00:10:35] Or that was a cool little thing.

[00:10:36] And they're chucking it in.

[00:10:37] So, but they don't understand what they're saying necessarily.

[00:10:40] There was a line of God train, uh, God created a rack is to train the faithful.

[00:10:45] Mm hmm.

[00:10:45] And Michaela just pops that out in the bar scene with Desmond.

[00:10:49] Uh huh.

[00:10:49] I'm like, that doesn't make any sense for that's not.

[00:10:53] Yeah.

[00:10:54] It was, it's a, it's a war line, but why?

[00:10:58] Why?

[00:10:58] Can I bring up like, what doesn't make sense to me?

[00:11:01] So I brought up several times that I really hoped that they had an explanation for why

[00:11:05] Dorotea would be in her, uh, in Lila's memories and remember her own death and stuff.

[00:11:10] And now we have, um, we have, uh, what's her name?

[00:11:15] Raquel.

[00:11:16] Mm hmm.

[00:11:16] In her memories who seems to remember her own death too.

[00:11:19] I'm like, they just don't know how this is supposed to work.

[00:11:23] And I guess it's just different for the show.

[00:11:25] But if you are making a completely different version of the lower, then please take the

[00:11:31] time to explain it to us.

[00:11:33] Right.

[00:11:33] Right.

[00:11:34] Oh, I got a little sand trout here, uh, coming to say hi to me.

[00:11:38] Anyway, let's, uh, let's, I guess just go ahead and, and get to the, um, uh, the scene

[00:11:47] by scene.

[00:11:47] And again, we're going to do kind of a compressed version of that.

[00:11:50] That said, uh, and, and our, our plot and writing criticisms aside, I do have to say

[00:11:56] that the, and we've said this before, the costumers and visually the costumes, the set deck, the,

[00:12:03] the palace is gorgeous.

[00:12:05] I love the design.

[00:12:06] Mine.

[00:12:06] I'd love some feedback from anybody who has some sort of art history or, or architectural

[00:12:12] history because those, the design that they're using for the palace with these sort of, uh,

[00:12:17] uh, lathe columns, these sort of rounded columns, they look really interestingly inspired by

[00:12:22] something in the world, but I don't where it's just really great.

[00:12:26] And there's just some beautiful, beautiful shot.

[00:12:29] So, all right.

[00:12:31] Anything else or should we go ahead and dive in?

[00:12:33] Uh, I, I love the cast still too.

[00:12:36] Okay.

[00:12:36] Yeah.

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:37] They did do a good, they did a good job on casting.

[00:12:39] That is for sure.

[00:12:40] All right.

[00:12:41] We start with the first scene with some ships in orbit and Francesca who will be Francesca,

[00:12:47] a mysterious woman arrives who turns Francesca.

[00:12:50] Uh, I have to say the ship design, the, um, the overhead shot of the starport looked really

[00:12:57] great.

[00:12:58] Uh, I love all the ship designs.

[00:13:00] Yeah.

[00:13:00] Yeah.

[00:13:01] And we see these, these fighters that are in orbit with the fleet.

[00:13:06] And then later there's another scene of them coming down and doing a flyover of palace.

[00:13:12] That I'm pretty sure is the same ship design that is Duncan Idaho's ship in Dune 1 movie

[00:13:19] where there's that scene where Paul talks to him in the hangar bay and it's this weird,

[00:13:24] long, thin wing like ship.

[00:13:26] And I'm pretty sure that's one for one is the same design.

[00:13:29] Hmm.

[00:13:30] So, uh,

[00:13:31] I liked the ships.

[00:13:32] They looked like razors in the sky, like actual, you know, like, um, like razors you

[00:13:38] use in real life.

[00:13:39] Right.

[00:13:39] But also kind of look like the knives that we see being called sister knives later in

[00:13:43] the series.

[00:13:44] Yeah.

[00:13:44] Yeah.

[00:13:45] It's a good point.

[00:13:45] I think they're called switchblade.

[00:13:47] Doesn't, uh, Richese call them switchblade or something like that?

[00:13:50] I mean, switchblade just means how it opens, right?

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:53] So, uh, the showing the fleet in orbit to just gives us a nice visual reminder,

[00:14:00] uh, or not reminder, but, uh, uh, foreshadowing for what the storyline unfolds

[00:14:05] or Constantine later, like, oh yeah, the ship, the orbit, you know, the ships in orbit.

[00:14:10] So, um, and that goes into my general comment about this.

[00:14:15] These writers are, are smart from a design standpoint.

[00:14:20] They really are writing.

[00:14:21] It feels like they're writing for street.

[00:14:23] Well, that's not the writers though.

[00:14:24] That's yeah.

[00:14:25] That's production design.

[00:14:26] Well, no, not production design, but like how they're whoever's breaking the episode

[00:14:31] and lining up the shot.

[00:14:33] They understand how to foreshadow and they understand how to tease a streaming audience.

[00:14:39] So, uh, and then of course we see Francesca and we saw her in the trailers and when she was

[00:14:45] on our episode guide, but gosh, it's kind of late episode five to be bringing in this major character.

[00:14:50] Yeah.

[00:14:51] When she showed up, I was like, oh, I totally forgot about her that she was supposed to show

[00:14:54] up.

[00:14:55] Exactly.

[00:14:56] Exactly.

[00:14:56] Cause, and then I wonder how many people even realize that this is the older version of

[00:15:01] one of, uh, Valya's conspirators from when they were younger.

[00:15:04] Right.

[00:15:05] Yep.

[00:15:05] And when we see them as young girls.

[00:15:07] Really?

[00:15:07] Yeah.

[00:15:08] When we see them as young girls and they're, they're, uh, when Valya has sort of given her

[00:15:13] mandate from Raquel, uh, see her, uh, little cabal and Francesca is one of them.

[00:15:19] And we'll talk a little bit more.

[00:15:21] Yeah.

[00:15:21] And Tula basically.

[00:15:22] Exactly.

[00:15:23] And we can talk about, uh, Francesca a little more breakdown.

[00:15:26] So the next scene we have is Desmond getting dressed.

[00:15:30] My man finally gets a new uniform.

[00:15:32] Yeah.

[00:15:32] Or did you have something else?

[00:15:33] Oh, but you know, you were going to mention that Tabu is a, well, is a famous Bollywood actress.

[00:15:38] Oh, right.

[00:15:39] Yeah.

[00:15:39] Yeah.

[00:15:40] So the actress did this.

[00:15:42] Right.

[00:15:42] I, I don't know her.

[00:15:45] I'm not familiar with her, but if you, uh, do any internet searching for her, like man,

[00:15:50] your feet, you know, the, the search results are all over the place.

[00:15:53] Uh, uh, apparently she's quite the name.

[00:15:56] Mm.

[00:15:57] So are you, I don't know if you're familiar with her.

[00:15:59] I mean, yeah, I don't watch that much Bollywood stuff.

[00:16:01] I do watch some of it and yeah, her, she's one of those faces that immediately like, ah,

[00:16:06] right.

[00:16:06] Right.

[00:16:07] So yeah, good job on the casting.

[00:16:10] All right.

[00:16:10] So my man gets a new uniform.

[00:16:12] Of course, then he gets it dirtied later on.

[00:16:14] I, I cheered out loud when he threw down that dirty duster.

[00:16:18] I cheered for you, David.

[00:16:20] Thank you.

[00:16:23] And, uh, so red zippy, uh, on the discord, we, on our live watch, we have a live watch

[00:16:29] channel and, uh, she made a joke about, you know, well, yeah, he's got a new uniform, but,

[00:16:34] uh, maybe he should, uh, you know, take a shower and brush his hair.

[00:16:39] Fair enough.

[00:16:40] Uh, a couple of things of note that we see in the shot in this whole little scene is beautifully

[00:16:47] shot the way the reflections and the way that they sort of build, build everything up.

[00:16:53] But we see scars on his back.

[00:16:55] We see his knife.

[00:16:58] There was even a little bit of a conversation.

[00:17:00] Is this a Chris knife or not?

[00:17:02] And I'm pretty sure it's a metal knife.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:05] Are of the same.

[00:17:07] Yeah.

[00:17:08] I mean, but then again, like I wouldn't surprise me if they called it a Chris knife, but it's

[00:17:13] not.

[00:17:15] And it looks like it might be a whale tooth.

[00:17:18] Uh,

[00:17:18] but then it would be just a Chris knife.

[00:17:20] Cause I would make so much more sense because he came from Maracas.

[00:17:23] Yeah.

[00:17:24] Right.

[00:17:25] But then the Chris knife is by the way, is a knife of, uh, Shahalud, the worm, the tooth.

[00:17:30] Sorry.

[00:17:31] Yeah.

[00:17:32] Very lots of lore, lots of big stuff about that, but it looks like the handle might be whale

[00:17:37] bone, uh, or like a whale.

[00:17:38] Uh, and then maybe, maybe she left him with it.

[00:17:43] What we find out at the end, Tula is his mom.

[00:17:45] Probably.

[00:17:46] Right.

[00:17:47] That's what I'm wondering if the whale that's the connection, right?

[00:17:49] That's another.

[00:17:50] Seiki, uh, thing.

[00:17:52] And then of course we have this little piece of black cloth that they're definitely signaling.

[00:17:56] We, they signaled us in episode one.

[00:17:59] We really haven't seen it.

[00:18:00] And now we see like two or three times in this episode.

[00:18:03] Right.

[00:18:04] So, uh, and then there's this beautiful shot of, uh,

[00:18:08] And you, sorry, you point out later in the notes that it matches what Harrow Harkonnen is wearing the type of cloth.

[00:18:14] So yeah, it seems to be a Harkonnen cloth, but anyway.

[00:18:16] Yeah.

[00:18:16] It really visually feels like it's the same kind of material, the same sort of, you know, bump.

[00:18:21] So now, you know, who knows what they're doing, but that's kind of what, and they, cause they give us a shot of heart of Harrow later, a very close up of the material of his outfit.

[00:18:30] So, uh, yeah, that's kind of where my, my mind is trending.

[00:18:34] That makes sense.

[00:18:35] And then they do the last shot in this scene is just gorgeous.

[00:18:39] It's the reflection on the table of his face and it's his eye.

[00:18:44] So we see his face inverted because we're looking down at this reflecting surface of table.

[00:18:51] And then as he, as the camera moves, it looks like, and we just see his one eye, his one crazy space wizard eye, uh, rising up the, uh, uh, placement on the screen.

[00:19:09] And it almost is, is if a moon is rising and it's just, and then we linger on it for a moment.

[00:19:16] Just absolutely gorgeous.

[00:19:17] So really, really nice story.

[00:19:21] So our next scene is the new regiment.

[00:19:24] So we get a, um, scene of Desmond walking in with his new lead to regiment and Haviko gives a little speech about, uh, needing to, uh, have some tough guys to, uh, kick some ass in the universe.

[00:19:41] Are you, are you along the lines of this is proto Sardaukar or.

[00:19:46] How could it be anything else?

[00:19:47] Yeah.

[00:19:47] Yeah.

[00:19:48] Yeah.

[00:19:48] They're not, I think they're, they're making it a very thin connection in terms of like, Hey, this isn't, you know, but it's like, it's enough of a story element that I think it connects.

[00:19:57] I mean, emperor's troops.

[00:19:59] We know of no other.

[00:20:00] Yeah.

[00:20:00] Yeah.

[00:20:01] Yeah.

[00:20:02] And you know, they're referred to, I believe in the Dune movies.

[00:20:04] I don't know if they're referred to this way in the, or books, but it certainly in the Villeneuve movies, they're called the, they call themselves the emperor's blade.

[00:20:13] And so we see swords, we see them kneeling.

[00:20:15] And so, yeah, it all very, uh, connected a little bit of, uh, lore with the Sardaukar.

[00:20:23] First off, um, Bashar is a jet is a rank is a military rank and, uh, it's roughly equivalent to a colonel.

[00:20:33] So not a general, but you know, very, very high rank officer.

[00:20:37] I guess the, uh, emperor's a general.

[00:20:39] Yeah.

[00:20:40] And there's, there's two other, uh, uh, ranks that we are given in the OG books.

[00:20:49] We have Burseg and we have Supreme Bashar.

[00:20:53] And, um, so there's probably a lot more, but no, it's, it's good enough for what we're working with.

[00:20:58] And I guess some of the roots of the word are related to bringer of glad tidings that the, the word.

[00:21:07] And we know that Frank Herbert very much, uh, uh, armchair linguist.

[00:21:12] He loved to dig around and root around in languages of, of other cultures and their histories and try to think about and formulate things that both sound good to our ear, but also make some sort of historical linguistic sense.

[00:21:25] But then with the Sardaukar, if you try to do some etymology work on that, uh, it seems pretty complex.

[00:21:34] And this field Sardaukar feels like more of a word that is engineered as opposed to just grafted straight out.

[00:21:42] And different people have broken down the word looking at SAR, S-A-R-D-A-U and K-A-R and, you know, how to, you know, train car, all of those things.

[00:21:53] But I think it's too complex and too opaque to be able to explain anything definitive on the podcast.

[00:22:00] But we know that later on in the books and stuff, um, these are the first terror troops.

[00:22:06] Um, and, and he needs that leverage against the right.

[00:22:10] I mean, even though like he should have a big army, I don't understand how he's in position without already having a, some sort of force like this.

[00:22:17] So anyway, uh, and then we see the, uh, those fighters do a fly over.

[00:22:23] Right.

[00:22:23] Yeah.

[00:22:24] Well, it's also, where did the fighters come from?

[00:22:26] They must've already been there because they don't just like, Oh, suddenly I have an army since yesterday.

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:32] They do a lot of jet packing and a lot of, uh, uh, time jumpy, uh, stuff in this.

[00:22:38] And he said it was like, he cites the time.

[00:22:41] It hasn't been a time jump or something.

[00:22:44] It's very quick.

[00:22:45] Yeah.

[00:22:45] So I don't know, like, where did, how did he?

[00:22:47] Yeah.

[00:22:47] There's, there's a lot of thinking about that.

[00:22:50] Yeah.

[00:22:50] Yeah.

[00:22:51] All right.

[00:22:51] So then the next scene, we kind of transition into a little bit of, of a party afterwards.

[00:22:57] And, uh, Francesca arrives, she reveals her veil and, uh, Natalia is a bit upset about this.

[00:23:04] And we see Mark strong looking like a puppy dog.

[00:23:07] So, and later we learned that he's imprinted, but we'll talk about that.

[00:23:11] Get to that.

[00:23:13] Uh, I was pretty surprised that she called him by his first name in public, not your grace

[00:23:19] or emperor or whatever.

[00:23:21] I guess that's a, that was a power move for sure.

[00:23:23] But the way I thought Mark strong did a really great job with portraying the way his face lit

[00:23:29] up in a way we haven't seen him at all.

[00:23:32] Looking at his wife, the moment she walked up like,

[00:23:34] very good point.

[00:23:35] Ouch.

[00:23:36] Yeah.

[00:23:36] Yeah.

[00:23:37] She, she is not, Natalia did not look happy at all.

[00:23:39] Francesca.

[00:23:41] And then did you notice that Francesca's design on her dress is, is the same as Valia's?

[00:23:47] Oh no.

[00:23:48] There's like the little sort of patterning, the little sort of, uh, embellishments that

[00:23:52] they have.

[00:23:53] And, uh, nobody else has that, but the mother superior.

[00:23:57] And I figured that that was kind of like a little, you know, rank symbol like, Oh, like

[00:24:01] you see that, you know, that's the mother superior, even if it has her bail down or whatever.

[00:24:05] And she's not wearing a truth, Sarah hat either.

[00:24:08] Right.

[00:24:09] So she's, uh, I don't know what they're saying to us that the next scene, uh, we have is

[00:24:20] Inez, Constantine, of course, uh, Inez kind of storms out from the, uh, the ceremony of

[00:24:26] the, of the new troopers, a bit upset about that.

[00:24:29] We see that she gets encountered by some guards and then Constantine is our guard tries

[00:24:34] to go in.

[00:24:35] And, uh, we see her doing some Prana Bindu style training to, to center herself, clear her

[00:24:41] mind.

[00:24:41] And then we have this intimate between brother and sister.

[00:24:45] Did you pick up anything on, on this scene other than just this intimate moment between

[00:24:51] them?

[00:24:53] No.

[00:24:54] Um, no, I mean, I, I, I feel like Inez has a, I guess I'm starting to at least understand

[00:25:01] Constantine a bit better in this, uh, episode in that, you know, I've, I guess I thought

[00:25:08] for some reason he was going to, they were going to do go with a trope where, you know,

[00:25:13] the illegitimate son ends up being the better fit.

[00:25:17] And then I'm like, but he's actually legitimately terrible.

[00:25:20] Like, I mean, not like an awful person, but just immature and not fit to rule.

[00:25:26] And instead they're going, yeah, the opposite way where it's, you know, yes, he is immature

[00:25:30] and not fit to rule, but he's going to be shoehorned into it because mommy has daddy on

[00:25:35] a short leash.

[00:25:37] And we got daddy issues all over the place here with both these characters.

[00:25:41] The, and they're laying a ton of groundwork and, and track work for developing their intimacy

[00:25:51] later.

[00:25:52] Cause obviously this is going to foreshadow that later conversation with Francesca, uh,

[00:25:56] about, you know, Constantine's quote unquote purpose.

[00:25:59] But this is, this is all season two stuff, right?

[00:26:02] Like there's no way that we can resolve these tensions between brother and sister in the

[00:26:05] next episode.

[00:26:06] So it's, it's really confusing cause this is some deep character work.

[00:26:11] That'd be great to explore, but we're just packing it in here in five.

[00:26:16] So, uh, one thing that I saw that I thought was interesting was when she dismisses the guard, there's

[00:26:25] a very, um, her hand is down by her side and she does this very subtle thing where she sort

[00:26:29] of does this dismissive gesture.

[00:26:33] And it just, uh, uh, is a, I think it's a nod to secret battle language that Atreides use

[00:26:40] in the OG books and, you know, uh, sisters have been using in the, in the show.

[00:26:46] So the idea that people are using non vocal communications throughout the Imperium to, I don't know, it seemed

[00:26:53] like they're, they're throwing that.

[00:26:55] Hmm.

[00:26:56] So, all right.

[00:26:57] Sister Jen is recorded.

[00:26:59] Um, we get the, uh, sisters in one of their lessons, they're heating up their hands over some Bunsen

[00:27:06] burners and we get the line that, uh, enter heat is just energy and it be displaced.

[00:27:13] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:13] And then, uh, get, um, basically Jen gets recruited by, by Hula.

[00:27:19] Um, the, she complains, Jen is, I don't know, Jen's feel, feels like they're kind of overwriting

[00:27:27] her a little bit.

[00:27:28] She's like pushing stuff pretty hard, but the, she, she blurts out about the, the whose eyes

[00:27:35] are watching us from the darkness.

[00:27:36] I'm like, yes.

[00:27:38] Yeah.

[00:27:38] I found, I found her delivery of stuff and I don't blame the actress.

[00:27:42] Um, but I found her delivery of stuff.

[00:27:45] So like suddenly like standing up and saying exposition now sitting down, like, okay.

[00:27:51] Right.

[00:27:52] But yeah, what is the, what is this dream?

[00:27:55] And, uh, how is she resistant to the dream?

[00:27:58] I think that again, you know, more stuff like I'm not sure how they're going to wrap

[00:28:03] up.

[00:28:03] Um, but yeah, that she does ask the question that we all really want to know, which is,

[00:28:08] you know, whose eyes are watching us from darkness.

[00:28:10] We'll talk a little bit about that in the, when we go down South to the, the Southern

[00:28:15] desert to talk with the, uh, the faithful, we'll, we'll get into it at the very end of the

[00:28:21] podcast.

[00:28:21] Um, but at least we have confirmation that Jen's not baking her, uh, her, her not being

[00:28:28] affected by the dream.

[00:28:30] So we were kind of speculating that before.

[00:28:33] Well, yeah, I never thought she was faking it, but, um, but I do think it's interesting

[00:28:37] that they put Jen in a position where she might have to make a hard choice in terms

[00:28:42] of giving her the sedative.

[00:28:43] Like she looked really uneasy thinking she might have to jab Lila with the set with the

[00:28:48] sedative.

[00:28:48] Um, and I kind of wish she had had her hand forced in that way, you know, to help her

[00:28:54] understand the difficult decisions.

[00:28:57] The sisterhood makes a bit better.

[00:28:59] Yeah.

[00:28:59] Cause that's one of the things that she's resisting is, um, uh, she keeps bringing up about

[00:29:04] these questions about, are we being used in his life being used?

[00:29:07] It's like, well, yeah, you are, you, you have pledged yourself to the serve in the service

[00:29:12] of the sisterhood and, and, and the sisters serve, you know, uh, choose to serve the Imperium.

[00:29:17] So according to the, you know, the human race.

[00:29:19] So yeah, you, you are.

[00:29:20] Uh, but then, uh, before that get a scene where Jen gets introduced to Lila, uh, and, uh,

[00:29:29] Jen is brought in.

[00:29:30] This reminded me from what I read up.

[00:29:33] I didn't finish sisterhood of June, but there's a whole scene where Valia gets brought into the

[00:29:38] secret and it kind of reminded me of that a little bit.

[00:29:41] I don't know if you saw any connections or they're sort of displacing some plot lines onto

[00:29:45] other characters.

[00:29:47] Yeah.

[00:29:48] Yeah.

[00:29:48] Just sort of, it's a callback, I suppose.

[00:29:51] Yeah.

[00:29:51] Hmm.

[00:29:52] So we get a little bit of a, a jump scare.

[00:29:55] I don't know.

[00:29:55] Felt a little cheap to me when she slid the little panel aside.

[00:30:00] Yeah.

[00:30:00] I didn't understand why even do that.

[00:30:02] If you're just about to walk in the room anyway.

[00:30:04] Yeah.

[00:30:05] Yeah.

[00:30:06] It was very strange.

[00:30:08] Anyway, we, uh, we get to see Lila having a moment and we get some set up for the fact

[00:30:15] that she's sort of coming in and out of, of being affected by other memories.

[00:30:19] And again, uh, and then later, later, later, um, sister Avila, uh, mentions the word abomination.

[00:30:28] Yeah.

[00:30:29] They don't use the word in a capital A, um, proper noun.

[00:30:33] But yeah.

[00:30:34] What abomination is this?

[00:30:35] Yes.

[00:30:36] I was like, okay, there we go.

[00:30:37] They said the thing.

[00:30:38] This is the thing.

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:39] They, they, they read, but do they understand?

[00:30:42] Anyway, um, the, uh, the whole lore on abomination, it really, I read the Dune encyclopedia

[00:30:48] entry for it and the really, the, the deep front side of, of the definition and what abomination

[00:30:54] is, was all about a prohibition about exposing the unborn to the spice, to the water of life.

[00:31:03] And that the unborn doesn't have the abilities and the training that you need.

[00:31:08] And there's a whole process that mothers, uh, Reverend mothers need to go through.

[00:31:12] Part of their training is to create a layer of control between themselves and their other

[00:31:17] memories.

[00:31:17] And you have to do that before you take, before you awake the other memory.

[00:31:21] So that's what we see happening in, uh, Dune 2 with, with, um, Paul's sister, uh, Aliyah,

[00:31:28] but about the Dune encyclopedia, I just want to make sure that listeners know that that

[00:31:34] is not canon.

[00:31:35] And it was never, it was never canon.

[00:31:37] It was something that was, um, written and, and Frank Herbert was like, oh, this is cool.

[00:31:44] And Frank Herbert wrote a foreword to it, but he said, basically what he's going to say

[00:31:50] is that this is a book written in universe.

[00:31:52] So it's not meant to be completely accurate.

[00:31:55] It's just what this fictional in universe writer thought, because it was also written

[00:31:59] before Frank Herbert finished his book.

[00:32:01] So then he goes on and contradicts it in his own books.

[00:32:03] And then, you know, people are like, and there's a bunch of stuff that's not in the,

[00:32:07] uh, encyclopedia that is in the later Frank Herbert books and stuff.

[00:32:11] So anyway, we do, we can do pull some pieces.

[00:32:14] So, but yeah, basically abomination is, is a, uh, pre-born who's been exposed and, or somebody

[00:32:22] who is not able to control their other memories and it's taken over by.

[00:32:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:28] And then, uh, uh, throughout the episode, Jen calls Lila doe eyes, which I didn't.

[00:32:36] It sounds like a nickname.

[00:32:37] I assumed she must've called her that in one of the early episodes.

[00:32:42] Yes.

[00:32:42] And I don't really remember that, but it's just like a nickname, uh, term of endearment.

[00:32:46] Yeah.

[00:32:46] Yeah, exactly.

[00:32:47] All right.

[00:32:48] Then we go to a conversation with Constantine and Francesca, beautiful between mother and

[00:32:55] son.

[00:32:55] And there's a couple of just gorgeous set up shots in here of taboo being framed in this

[00:33:02] long hallway or, you know, uh, uh, two of them standing in front of this painting.

[00:33:07] Uh, I think this is a painting of the coronation or the, the wedding of, of Havico and Natalia,

[00:33:13] like the dress, uh, that she's wearing that.

[00:33:17] And the, the thing that I took most from this scene was the fact that Francesca is looking

[00:33:24] at this painting and kind of thinking, what if, what if that was me instead of Natalia in

[00:33:28] the painting?

[00:33:29] You know, how, how am I?

[00:33:31] But again, so much to try to convey in episode five of, of six episodes.

[00:33:36] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:38] We also learn that, uh, when Constantine comes up, he says, well, I didn't send a crystal

[00:33:43] for you, which must be those little message things.

[00:33:45] Well, yeah.

[00:33:47] I was, so we'll talk about what Harrow Harkonnen gets later, but, um, I, I was, you know, I

[00:33:52] went down a deep dive of like message, send a crystal.

[00:33:55] What?

[00:33:56] And then the only like thing I can think of is, you know, from much later to, you know, 10,000

[00:34:00] years later in the timeline, they have something called Ixian Dictatel, which uses, and it's

[00:34:06] something that a character who doesn't really have arms because he's wormy, um, uses to

[00:34:12] dictate basically.

[00:34:13] And they use, um, they print on something called Redulian crystal paper.

[00:34:21] And it's basically, it's a crystal that they can slice so thin that it creates paper like

[00:34:27] a, uh, micro, whatever, you know, micro.

[00:34:31] Micron sticks.

[00:34:32] Yeah.

[00:34:32] Right.

[00:34:32] Yeah.

[00:34:33] Like one micron thick or something like that.

[00:34:35] Um, that's from much later.

[00:34:37] So I don't know.

[00:34:39] That's the only reference I could see that made that make sense.

[00:34:43] But then the fact they said crystal and then they showed something that actually looks more

[00:34:47] like a gel sphere later.

[00:34:49] I don't know.

[00:34:50] I don't know.

[00:34:50] They just, yeah, they need to explain this stuff.

[00:34:52] I really hope this finale does.

[00:34:53] Uh, again, yeah.

[00:34:56] Just throwing out terms without really, um, understanding them.

[00:35:00] Um, but I think I, one thing that I, as you're talking about crystals, one thing that, that

[00:35:06] made me think that something that interesting that is very present in the original books,

[00:35:13] but I didn't really ever appreciate was the fact that Frank Herbert was thinking through

[00:35:17] the, well, how do you keep records for, you know, hundreds of, you know, a thousand, tens

[00:35:23] of thousands of years.

[00:35:24] And so he actually thought about the medium, like his paper gonna exist, you know, uh,

[00:35:30] is, is it going to survive as a piece of paper going to survive 10,000 years?

[00:35:33] And it's like, oh, you can write on sugar wire.

[00:35:36] You can write on all these different surfaces or these different writing implements.

[00:35:40] And he kind of thought, thought about it and what is durable and what is going to be accessible

[00:35:46] in 10, 20, 50, 6,000 years from now.

[00:35:49] So very, very cool aspect of the, um, original six books.

[00:35:54] If you get to those particular, he thinks very carefully about certain things.

[00:36:00] Appreciate that detail.

[00:36:02] All right.

[00:36:03] Next we get, uh, Haro and Desmond Haro comes to see Desmond in his office.

[00:36:08] Uh, he calls him Lord Bashar, which is a little bit of a weird, like a double, like Dr.

[00:36:13] Doctor kind of thing.

[00:36:14] Uh, but I, I kind of read that as just Haro being, um, uncomfortable in the situation.

[00:36:20] Yeah, exactly.

[00:36:22] And I didn't get what all this stuff that was on Desmond's desk.

[00:36:25] It was like, they just dumped out a box of curios and I don't understand what purpose.

[00:36:30] I mean, it certainly hides this little crystal thing that he, him later.

[00:36:34] Um, but I did appreciate the fact that Haro is telling the truth, right?

[00:36:41] He's actually saying, yeah, you know, my sister Tula and my uncle Evgeny actually saw right through her, which I appreciate.

[00:36:49] Cause one of the themes of the whole season has been truth and lies and using these things.

[00:36:54] And so he's, the best lie is, you know, that, that, that the core of it is something that's true.

[00:37:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:37:01] Right.

[00:37:02] So that there's a, uh, there's a authenticity to it when you're speaking about it.

[00:37:07] Yeah.

[00:37:08] Um, I immediately, as soon as he started saying stuff about Valya, I'm like, oh, she's Valya sent him clearly that's, and then we get confirmation later in the episode.

[00:37:17] But then that makes me question, like, does, did Desmond also clock that?

[00:37:22] But then I think not because also Desmond, like needed Haro's help figuring out that the rebels were, um, using the club to smuggle things through.

[00:37:32] And you could see the moment that Desmond was like, oh, wait a minute.

[00:37:37] Maybe this guy isn't useless.

[00:37:39] Hmm.

[00:37:40] Uh, so I don't think Desmond's very smart.

[00:37:42] I a hundred percent agree with that take.

[00:37:44] I had the same similar note, which was like, there's a, and there's a point where you see Desmond go, oh yeah, I guess that would be smart.

[00:37:54] You're like, okay, you do dumb.

[00:37:55] You're kind of dumb.

[00:37:56] Yeah.

[00:37:57] You may be a good fighter.

[00:37:58] You may be a good soldier, but not, you know, this is not CSI, uh, Nia here, right?

[00:38:04] You're not, you're not lead detective.

[00:38:06] So.

[00:38:06] Yeah.

[00:38:08] Uh, we get some more space cocaine.

[00:38:10] Uh, which we.

[00:38:11] Is, is, is, is a space cocaine supposed to be Samuta?

[00:38:15] No, because Samuta you drink.

[00:38:17] Don't, or no, no.

[00:38:18] Samuta is the musical one, right?

[00:38:19] Yeah.

[00:38:19] It's, um, what's the drinking one that the Mentats use?

[00:38:23] Uh, the juice of Sappho.

[00:38:25] Yeah.

[00:38:25] They all come from the same planets.

[00:38:27] Uh, X, X, X.

[00:38:28] Right.

[00:38:29] Yeah.

[00:38:30] No, I don't.

[00:38:30] Is this spice?

[00:38:31] Is this like something else plus a little bit of spice?

[00:38:35] Like, oh, this is, you know, you've mixed in a little bit to bump, but obviously we got

[00:38:39] the foreshadowing.

[00:38:40] Yeah.

[00:38:40] Earlier when con with Constantine, uh, the Richese, uh, daughter, uh, to signal that this drug

[00:38:48] will sort of loosen you up.

[00:38:50] So, you know, is that I did clock the line about the whale fur.

[00:38:56] Uh, that, you know, the, the ships kept, you know, disappearing and they kept losing their

[00:39:00] whale fur shipments.

[00:39:01] That was a, that's kind of a quasi plot line or a fraction.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:05] Well, there was, because, uh, it, this is something that comes up with like in the beginning of the

[00:39:10] sisterhood of doom book, um, because, and they actually lose an uncle, although yeah,

[00:39:16] uh, they've changed the whole structure of that family.

[00:39:18] So anyway, uh, but basically before Venport became the spacing guild, they had a rival,

[00:39:25] but the rival was less good at like the whole traveling through spacing.

[00:39:30] So sometimes they would lose, um, a shipment and yeah, they lost their uncle and like a

[00:39:36] huge investment that set them back for a while.

[00:39:39] The Harkons.

[00:39:40] So again, it feels like they're grafting a little bit of a plot line or an idea from,

[00:39:43] from the past.

[00:39:44] Oh, and that reminds me in that first conversation, the previous conversation with Francesca and

[00:39:50] Constantine, doesn't, he says, uh, oh, you came from across from the other side of the

[00:39:55] galaxy.

[00:39:55] What conversation, or was it later with Falia?

[00:39:58] Uh, there's some conversation about her being with the navigators or with, um, there was

[00:40:04] some fragment that made me think that she was embedded with the guilt.

[00:40:10] What will become the guilt?

[00:40:11] Well, the guilt should already exist at this point, but then if they follow the books at

[00:40:15] all, the, cause at the guild, um, at the, basically the guild is formed at the end of

[00:40:21] the great schools of Dune trilogy.

[00:40:23] And it's tied to that character, Anna Carino that they've wiped out of, uh, this version

[00:40:29] apparently.

[00:40:29] So I don't know.

[00:40:30] According to the books, the guild exists according to the show, who knows?

[00:40:34] And they haven't mentioned the guild or navigators or anything up until this thing

[00:40:39] where there was some indication that Francesca was somehow there, you know, the emissary or

[00:40:44] the, uh, or did she just travel with them because they are the ones who do the, uh, I

[00:40:49] wish I could go back and look, but it's basic.

[00:40:52] I have a thing.

[00:40:53] I have the transcript open.

[00:40:55] What was said?

[00:40:56] She, it was either guild or navigator.

[00:40:59] Uh, but there was something about her.

[00:41:01] Oh yeah.

[00:41:02] The spacing guild has been known to monitor dispatches.

[00:41:06] That's it.

[00:41:06] When he says I didn't send a crystal to you.

[00:41:08] So there's our first reference of the guild.

[00:41:11] Right.

[00:41:12] Yeah.

[00:41:12] Why didn't you tell me the truth?

[00:41:13] The spacing guild has been known to.

[00:41:15] So basically he's saying that, um, I didn't.

[00:41:18] Yeah.

[00:41:19] That, uh, oh no.

[00:41:20] Cause that's right.

[00:41:21] Valia was saying about, uh, about not telling her being honest about

[00:41:25] Kasha.

[00:41:26] Um, I think first of all, she knew she would come faster if it was about her

[00:41:29] son, but it's also, but she, her excuse is that the spacing guild might spy and

[00:41:34] read the thing.

[00:41:35] Right.

[00:41:36] Right.

[00:41:36] But that's our first guild.

[00:41:38] Yeah.

[00:41:39] Yeah.

[00:41:40] It's the same as mentats.

[00:41:41] They just mentioned mentats exist and then.

[00:41:44] Yeah.

[00:41:44] Okay.

[00:41:45] Still.

[00:41:46] They're still out there.

[00:41:48] Okay.

[00:41:48] So what's this little orb?

[00:41:50] What is this little, is this AI?

[00:41:51] Is this thinking machine stuff?

[00:41:53] Well, yeah.

[00:41:54] So I saw people speculating online that it could be some sort of recording device, which

[00:41:58] would make sense given the context of the scene.

[00:42:01] You know, obviously we heard the, like, I didn't send you a crystal, which makes

[00:42:04] you wonder if, yeah, it would be like a recording device with that.

[00:42:06] But what it, the object from the books that it looks just like is something called a gel

[00:42:13] sphere.

[00:42:14] And that's basically like the CPU core of artificial intelligence.

[00:42:18] Okay.

[00:42:19] So for example, we've talked a few times about this character, Erasmus, who may or may not

[00:42:23] exist in this version.

[00:42:25] Um, and he, his body was destroyed in, in, you know, the, uh, Jihad.

[00:42:32] Uh, but his core, his gel sphere was smuggled out.

[00:42:37] Okay.

[00:42:37] And so for a lot of the books, he's just like this gel sphere being carried around connected

[00:42:42] so they can talk to him.

[00:42:44] Yeah.

[00:42:45] That would be.

[00:42:45] And that's what it looked like, but that can't be, why would he give him that?

[00:42:49] Right.

[00:42:50] It must be something with recording or something.

[00:42:53] Yeah.

[00:42:54] And it's literally deus ex machina, right?

[00:42:56] It's literally a machine that is going to, uh, to make a big, you know, uh, be an important

[00:43:03] part of the episode six plot wrap up.

[00:43:06] Right.

[00:43:06] And, uh, when, when Haro looks at it, uh, Edward Davis, who you seem to appreciate, uh, you

[00:43:14] got a call out right here.

[00:43:15] Uh, yeah, he's, I especially know him from, he was in, I love the show Sanditon.

[00:43:20] If you like, like Jane Austen stuff, if you like Bridgerton stuff, uh, Gilded Age, all that,

[00:43:25] uh, Downton Abbey, definitely watch Sanditon.

[00:43:28] It's complete.

[00:43:29] There's three seasons out.

[00:43:30] It's based on an, the, the unfinished Jane Austen novel.

[00:43:34] Oh, wow.

[00:43:34] He shows up in season three and, uh, yeah, I, no spoilers, but he makes an important connection

[00:43:41] with an important character.

[00:43:42] And I just, I really like him based on that.

[00:43:45] And then seeing in this episode, he was given more space, more.

[00:43:49] He got to have this conversation with Desmond where they let his face do interesting things

[00:43:55] because he has really interesting, like micro facial expressions.

[00:43:58] So it was nice to see him get to stretch a little more.

[00:44:01] Right.

[00:44:01] A little space cocaine opens up his character for a second.

[00:44:06] Uh, the Bridgerton burst, right?

[00:44:08] Is there a, there's a hole like that was, uh, this, no, I said, send it to me.

[00:44:11] Sanditon is not Bridgerton.

[00:44:13] Right.

[00:44:13] That's true.

[00:44:13] Sanditon is actually based on an unfinished Jane Austen novel.

[00:44:17] Bridgerton is like, if you take, um, like Gilded Age, uh, um, you know, uh, Downton Abbey,

[00:44:25] these are all based in history.

[00:44:28] Mm-hmm.

[00:44:29] Bridgerton, um, Winks at history, especially the Queen Charlotte ones, decent on that front.

[00:44:34] But for the most part, it's just cotton candy.

[00:44:36] Okay.

[00:44:37] Well, it was like, it's one of the top downloaded, uh, streamed, uh, uh, seasons.

[00:44:43] It doesn't require much thinking.

[00:44:45] I like it.

[00:44:46] I do.

[00:44:46] I, I watch all the Bridgerton episodes, all those seasons, but it does not hold a candle

[00:44:51] to Sanditon or Gilded Age.

[00:44:53] Wow.

[00:44:53] There you go.

[00:44:53] No, not even close.

[00:44:55] Strong recommendation.

[00:44:56] Uh, so yeah, he, anyway, he, as he actually gets to do some acting in this episode, when

[00:45:04] Desmond gives it to him, he looks at it.

[00:45:08] He's a little, he's not confused, but there's a moment.

[00:45:10] And then he, the, the facial expression, uh, on him is resolves to like, ah, I know what

[00:45:18] this is and I'm happy about it.

[00:45:19] Right.

[00:45:20] This is a really powerful.

[00:45:21] So the practical effect was great.

[00:45:24] I don't know how they lit that thing up.

[00:45:26] Like if it's just CGI or if they did.

[00:45:28] Yeah.

[00:45:28] But that looks so much like a gel sphere because at one point you have a thing where

[00:45:32] like Anna is used holding the character.

[00:45:34] Who's erased.

[00:45:35] Who's the, sorry, the aunt of Haviko, um, books.

[00:45:40] Um, she's like navigating through a dark space because, uh, she's holding it.

[00:45:44] Like lighting up his little gel sphere to help her and then putting it dark when she's hiding

[00:45:48] him.

[00:45:48] Yeah.

[00:45:49] Nice.

[00:45:49] And it has the glitter in it too.

[00:45:51] It looks like a gel sphere, but why would, why would, why in episode five?

[00:45:56] Yeah.

[00:45:56] And why would, uh, Desmond give one to, um, Harrow.

[00:46:01] Harrow.

[00:46:02] Yeah.

[00:46:02] And in the fact they mentioned about the crystal for messaging, it must just be like they're

[00:46:06] making, it's just a coincidence that it looks like this thing from the books.

[00:46:10] Hmm.

[00:46:11] Well, but we know that they know to, they, that they're plucking.

[00:46:15] So that they're plucking details.

[00:46:17] Yeah.

[00:46:17] I feel like they like browse the wiki rather than sorry.

[00:46:22] That's right.

[00:46:23] All right.

[00:46:24] Let's, uh, let's move on.

[00:46:25] Uh, Valia and Francesca, uh, basically Francesca is reporting into, to Valia and we, I don't

[00:46:32] know.

[00:46:32] I get this sense that Francesca is very attached to her son, which again is not very sisterhood

[00:46:37] like we get a lot of counter cross, uh, attitudes about sisterhood and mission.

[00:46:44] I mean, with Michaela, with Jen, with Francesca, uh, even Tula being very attached.

[00:46:50] Um, I guess maybe later in the, in the OG books, you know, they're very detached from those things,

[00:46:56] which is a very important aspect of the resolution of the books.

[00:47:01] But it seems like there's still a lot of attachment here.

[00:47:04] Um, the sisters are not very sister-like the, in my, uh, appreciation of, of.

[00:47:11] Yeah.

[00:47:12] But the whole attachment, like you can't have attachments and it never works.

[00:47:16] And the tale is old as time.

[00:47:17] And clearly yeah.

[00:47:18] Star Wars is, uh, exactly.

[00:47:22] Yeah.

[00:47:22] But star Wars, you know, it's a, star Wars obviously pulls a lot from Dune also, but a star

[00:47:26] Wars puts a real emphasis on like, Oh, let's show all the ways that this does not work.

[00:47:31] Mm.

[00:47:32] Let's interrogate this concept.

[00:47:34] Right.

[00:47:34] So this is basically an exposition scene, right?

[00:47:37] Mm.

[00:47:37] We get the, we get the plans with plans.

[00:47:39] We get a, we'll get to that.

[00:47:41] And then we get a quick scene with Desmond who wants to go hunting for insurgents and

[00:47:47] he fights, uh, Kirin to join them.

[00:47:52] Uh, but we get that.

[00:47:53] Kirin.

[00:47:53] Yeah.

[00:47:54] Sorry.

[00:47:54] Uh, we get that.

[00:47:55] Uh, yeah, my notes are a mess because I was like trying to spell check.

[00:47:59] I don't have a Kirin as a spell check word in my, in my Google doc.

[00:48:04] Uh, the, he leaves a little key lock thing on there.

[00:48:10] So it's just like, okay, dude's not very good at espionage.

[00:48:13] Right.

[00:48:14] You know, which is what gets found later by Constantine.

[00:48:18] But my question is, does Desmond know that Kirin is a spy?

[00:48:23] Is he just playing with him?

[00:48:25] Was he going to use him, take him out and then sort of use him or did he actually invite

[00:48:30] him along?

[00:48:31] Like, Hey, you know, you're a security dude.

[00:48:33] We're security dude.

[00:48:34] Let's go do some security dude stuff.

[00:48:37] I assumed.

[00:48:38] I mean, I always assume that in this show that Desmond is anti everybody except for the,

[00:48:46] like the emperor and his wife, because he wants to use them to achieve whatever he wants.

[00:48:51] So I took it as antagonistic, but that's just, I think because I assume Desmond is being

[00:48:57] antagonistic all the time.

[00:48:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:48:59] They're, they're not telling us that he's that great investigator.

[00:49:02] No.

[00:49:03] Uh, we get a reference to a dance lesson, which was, uh, very, you know, uh, game of thronesy

[00:49:10] people.

[00:49:11] Oh, because, uh, dancing with the swords.

[00:49:14] Well, yeah.

[00:49:14] Well, uh, water, the dancing, um, uh, uh, dance, uh, dance instructor.

[00:49:19] That's what Aria was given.

[00:49:21] That's, uh, uh, why I forget guys name it.

[00:49:23] Yeah.

[00:49:24] But I feel like that's gotta be, that's something that people say about sword play more often.

[00:49:28] Yeah.

[00:49:29] Absolutely.

[00:49:30] And then Constantine sort of throws a little, uh, uh, cheekily throws a little, a salute

[00:49:35] that, uh, is clearly an Atreides callback, right?

[00:49:38] That's what, uh, Duncan Idaho does where he taps the sword horizontal to his forehead.

[00:49:44] So, um, right.

[00:49:46] And then we get the foreshadowing or the setup or the dramatic tension between Kieran and Constantine,

[00:49:52] which is like, Hey, grow up kid.

[00:49:53] And in this episode he does.

[00:49:55] And then he thanks him later by having him arrested.

[00:49:57] So, yeah.

[00:49:59] All right.

[00:50:00] Kieran, uh, jet packs over to the club and, uh, they get to set some,

[00:50:06] uh, charges and, uh, Michaela provides some sage advice.

[00:50:12] Don't ever make them for you for spies.

[00:50:14] So to speak, don't ever make the mistake that you come the man you are pretending to be.

[00:50:20] Hmm.

[00:50:20] I thought that was a cool line, but it was just kind of thrown away.

[00:50:24] Yeah.

[00:50:25] Yeah.

[00:50:25] I don't know.

[00:50:26] It just, yeah.

[00:50:26] The character, um, development didn't necessarily earn the line, but it's a cool line.

[00:50:31] Yeah.

[00:50:32] And then this whole idea that Horace is a better man and, you know, he want you to be safe.

[00:50:36] I was like, Horace was not a better man.

[00:50:38] Yeah.

[00:50:38] I don't know.

[00:50:39] I mean, I barely knew Horace.

[00:50:40] Exactly.

[00:50:42] Yeah.

[00:50:42] So, uh, and I guess they decide, I guess this was the plan to McKay.

[00:50:47] This was McKayla's orders to kill Desmond, knowing that, uh, Desmond was going to, oh,

[00:50:53] that's right.

[00:50:54] Cause Harrow pointed them, pointed Desmond in that direction.

[00:50:57] They were going to blow up.

[00:50:59] I did point out.

[00:51:00] It's nice for McKayla that both McKayla, the rebel and McKayla, the sister are aligned

[00:51:05] on one thing.

[00:51:06] Desmond's gotta go.

[00:51:07] So for a moment, she doesn't have to be pulled in two directions.

[00:51:10] She's like, no matter what, get rid of this guy.

[00:51:13] Um, but also Desmond, he talked about, you know, torturing the guards in the way and he's

[00:51:18] just getting really mustache twirly.

[00:51:20] I'm like, okay.

[00:51:21] Yeah.

[00:51:21] But I just have to point out that torture has been proven to lead to false confessions.

[00:51:27] Like the CIA actually put out a, um, a 500 page study on this basically.

[00:51:35] So torture is not the way to get a confession.

[00:51:38] No.

[00:51:39] But if you want to look it up, CIA study 2014.

[00:51:42] Okay.

[00:51:43] Let's take a quick break.

[00:51:44] And then when we get back, we'll talk about package delivery that, uh, mother superior

[00:51:49] sent the, you know, the intergalactic BS.

[00:52:01] We're Teresa and Nemo.

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[00:52:38] Okay.

[00:52:39] In this next scene, we see one of the spaceships, uh, landing on Wallach nine and, uh, sister

[00:52:45] Avila gets a package, which is the blood sample of, um, Desmond that she wants Tula to run.

[00:52:51] But then we see as, as the camera moves, we see a shot of a group of sisters on that sort of platform

[00:53:01] dais thing over the cliff.

[00:53:02] It with, uh, Emeline, is that the, is that the more religious faction, the faithful faction?

[00:53:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:53:09] I think that's kind of what they were signaling.

[00:53:11] That's what I took away from it.

[00:53:12] Yeah.

[00:53:13] So maybe they are, maybe they're doing some things where they're going to transpose certain

[00:53:18] elements of the earlier book stories later.

[00:53:21] Okay.

[00:53:21] And then we're going to the, I hate to call it the Villeneuve verse, but you know, this

[00:53:26] version.

[00:53:26] I think we can, I think we can, the movies versus the television.

[00:53:30] So we have another verse.

[00:53:31] We have a, what do we, what do we call them in, uh, in, um, in the Marvel world?

[00:53:36] The, uh, oh, I forget.

[00:53:38] Timeline splinters.

[00:53:39] Another universe.

[00:53:40] Yeah.

[00:53:40] Yeah.

[00:53:41] We need Loki here holding all this together for us.

[00:53:44] Right.

[00:53:46] But, um, I wonder, cause there is Dorothea in that universe.

[00:53:51] She actually did like when they, they left Rossock because of actually the plague that came up

[00:53:57] today.

[00:53:57] So we'll talk about that.

[00:53:59] Um, but she ended up, you know, she was the truth sayer of, um, the emperor.

[00:54:05] And so she ended up like bringing her faction of fanatics, uh, there to Seleucus Secundus.

[00:54:12] And then, um, Valia ended up setting up shop with another group on Wallet, uh, nine.

[00:54:18] And obviously that's the group that won because of the whole stabby stabby in the throat thing

[00:54:22] we saw earlier this season.

[00:54:25] And again, uh, more track for a season two, if they go that way with the schism and, and

[00:54:32] then of course, Tula or sorry, Lila, AKA Raquel later references it.

[00:54:40] Right.

[00:54:40] Which actually is our, our sort of next scene here.

[00:54:44] We got Jen, Lila, Tula.

[00:54:46] And I, I was just gonna say, I just want wheel of time fans to know I'm biting my tongue

[00:54:49] so hard right now.

[00:54:51] The book readers don't worry.

[00:54:53] You clocked it, whatever it is.

[00:54:55] Yeah.

[00:54:57] You guys are getting excited.

[00:54:58] I know the, the wheel of time sky is all over the place.

[00:55:01] The trailer looks.

[00:55:02] Yeah.

[00:55:02] Watch skies is, uh, very excited.

[00:55:04] The trailer, the teaser that they released so far is just like teasing in all the right

[00:55:09] ways.

[00:55:10] And all of us, like there's a shot of, um, of Rand who's one of the main characters for

[00:55:16] anyone who doesn't know standing on a platform with, uh, with another character.

[00:55:19] We only see that characters back and everyone who has read the books like cool it in.

[00:55:24] It's just, it's just so on point.

[00:55:27] It just looks like, and yeah, this is going to be the season where people compare it to

[00:55:30] Dune a lot.

[00:55:31] Okay.

[00:55:32] Fair enough.

[00:55:32] Fair enough.

[00:55:33] All right.

[00:55:34] But anyway, we've got Jen, uh, Tula and Lila here.

[00:55:38] Uh, you got a couple of notes in the outline.

[00:55:41] Yeah.

[00:55:41] So, I mean, I brought this up earlier, but just basically, uh, I noticed that they, Raquel

[00:55:47] Lila also remembers her death like Dorotea.

[00:55:49] So this just tells me that this is just different lore.

[00:55:52] This is not lore from the original books or any other books.

[00:55:56] This is just something else.

[00:55:57] Um, I don't know that the final writers who worked on this even realize, I assume

[00:56:03] not, or they would explain something I assume, but, um, okay, fine.

[00:56:07] So they, I guess the way it works in the TV show is best I can gather until they actually

[00:56:12] explain it to us is that, um, you, I honestly don't know.

[00:56:18] You have all your ancestors, but then sometimes they speak, they can fight amongst themselves

[00:56:23] to speak to you or I don't know.

[00:56:24] They still need to clarify this anyway.

[00:56:26] Hmm.

[00:56:27] I think in the later Herbert books, there was that thing about the, um, different other

[00:56:31] memories can fight for control.

[00:56:33] Right.

[00:56:34] Yeah.

[00:56:35] Um, but, but just the fact that they, it's not just like, why is Lila's mother not there

[00:56:41] or is she, or why, and why do the memories remember their death when that's after, you

[00:56:47] know, the next generation was born?

[00:56:48] Um, and here, and why does she have to ask, why does Raquel, who, when she takes Lila's

[00:56:54] body, why does she have to ask questions about things that Lila already knows?

[00:56:57] Like, and isn't Dorothea in there as well?

[00:56:59] So I'm very, I need some clarification from them on how this works in the TV version.

[00:57:05] Right.

[00:57:06] And then we get, uh, Jen here with, well, Lila, is she just being, yes, she is being used.

[00:57:13] She's just like stands up and then, okay.

[00:57:15] So it's right down.

[00:57:16] Like, okay, like give, I, it's nothing against the actress.

[00:57:18] Give her more to do.

[00:57:20] When I was, uh, writing up my notes, uh, occasionally, if there's a quote that I want to capture,

[00:57:27] I'll use, uh, like a voice, um, activated, uh, dictation just because I'll, I'll, uh, I'll

[00:57:34] remember and speak the quote faster than I can typing it.

[00:57:37] So when I said, when I told the computer, uh, the gaping maw of shy hood, it said the gaping

[00:57:44] maw mall, the gay, the, the gapping mall, uh, shy Hollywood.

[00:57:49] I was like, good job.

[00:57:52] Good job.

[00:57:53] Close enough.

[00:57:53] Yeah.

[00:57:54] Close enough that I can remember what it, what it was.

[00:57:57] Uh, and then we get the line.

[00:57:59] It wasn't a nightmare.

[00:58:00] It was prescience.

[00:58:00] And of course, prescience, the ability to see the future is, uh, a very important or

[00:58:08] the ladder or OG books.

[00:58:10] And, you know, prescience is a thing in a lot of the items that we cover and the ability

[00:58:14] to see down multiple timelines.

[00:58:16] And that was the whole deal of what the sisterhood wanted was, or the Benny Jesuit in the books

[00:58:22] was a male counterpart who could look forward because if the sisters could look backward, they're

[00:58:29] blind to half of the potentiality of the universe.

[00:58:32] And so they wanted somebody who could look forward.

[00:58:34] It turns out you needed a, a male Benny Jesuit to do that.

[00:58:38] And then that's Frank playing with gender norms and stereotypes like that.

[00:58:42] So, uh, and then we get a line here.

[00:58:46] I foresaw the reckoning that would drive the Imperium to tyranny.

[00:58:51] Very important word.

[00:58:52] When, again, when we go south to talk to the faithful, we'll, uh, we'll save that.

[00:58:56] I'll call these comments.

[00:58:58] This part of the conversation for the deep book lore, uh, book lore section at the very,

[00:59:04] very end of the podcast.

[00:59:05] But then when Lila is in the work, uh, in the laboratory here, I don't know if you notice

[00:59:13] she knocks, uh, uh, Tula's, uh, uh, whale tooth, uh, keepsake aside.

[00:59:20] Mm hmm.

[00:59:20] So, and again, I think that maybe Desmond's knife handle is well.

[00:59:25] Uh, uh, yeah.

[00:59:26] I mean, I, I took that to mean that it, she was, had just fully taken over.

[00:59:30] Lila was not present because Lila would never do that because it's precious to her.

[00:59:34] Mm hmm.

[00:59:35] And so they're saying Raquel had fully took over her body.

[00:59:38] Yeah.

[00:59:38] Yeah.

[00:59:39] That's definitely a signal for that.

[00:59:41] Uh, and we get reference to the great work, which as far as I understand it, that's the

[00:59:46] genetic index, uh, in the breeding program that the Benny Jesper undertakes.

[00:59:50] Yeah.

[00:59:51] Although the phrase great work is giving me star Wars.

[00:59:56] That's also a term in the new skeleton crew show.

[00:59:59] Oh, is it?

[01:00:00] Oh, okay.

[01:00:01] Loving that by the way.

[01:00:02] And it's tied to the hyper public.

[01:00:03] Yeah.

[01:00:03] I'm loving it too.

[01:00:04] Yeah.

[01:00:04] So good.

[01:00:05] I mean, it's just a perfect, uh, December sort of feel good on.

[01:00:09] Yeah.

[01:00:10] Uh, but still rich with lore, right.

[01:00:12] And still very good story and still very.

[01:00:15] Well, it's just, yeah, the, yeah, the world building is so good.

[01:00:18] Like I'm, whatever's going on on this planet is, um, is.

[01:00:23] Yes.

[01:00:23] It has layers, has layers for sure.

[01:00:25] That's great.

[01:00:26] And, and that's what I want from a kid's story is a story that I, as an adult can appreciate

[01:00:31] simultaneously.

[01:00:32] And they match that really, really well.

[01:00:35] Anyway, we're here to talk about doing prophecy.

[01:00:37] So, uh, next up we have Haro and Valia and we get the scene where, you know, the, uh, they're

[01:00:47] talking to each other.

[01:00:48] We get some more exposition dumpy stuff, but we definitely get a closeup of the fabric

[01:00:54] of Haro's clothing.

[01:00:56] And again, that's visually where, but then other people were showing that he was padding

[01:01:00] himself there, maybe smoothing down his outfit.

[01:01:04] Is that where he's, uh, hiding that little, uh, marble, that little, uh, crystal somebody.

[01:01:11] I saw some speculation about that as well.

[01:01:14] And then we get this line about service to the Imperium.

[01:01:18] And, uh, I just got to call out foundation a little bit, which also deals with this thing.

[01:01:27] Uh, and or shorten the way, so to speak in, uh, galactic stories and know that Frank was

[01:01:37] definitely writing in the shadow of, of Asimov foundation trilogy or trilogy, but the, the,

[01:01:44] yeah, it was a trilogy.

[01:01:45] Uh, so I just, it caught me, that line kind of caught me and I was like, oh yeah, there's

[01:01:50] like secret organizations doing secret stuff.

[01:01:54] And then Valia gives Haro the ducal signet ring for house Harkonnen.

[01:02:01] And of course, you know, very important within the Imperium, these rings they're used as a,

[01:02:07] uh, Oh, what is that?

[01:02:08] Uh, what do you call that when you drip the wax?

[01:02:10] See, it's just a seal, right?

[01:02:11] Like a seal.

[01:02:12] Yeah.

[01:02:13] Um, yeah.

[01:02:14] I would love if this story was, you know, had Haro coming out, being someone that people

[01:02:19] underestimated, but in a way where he's actually not an horrible person.

[01:02:24] I need some more complexity to everyone's like, oh, the Harkonnens are awful at this

[01:02:28] point.

[01:02:28] And that's not really true at this point in the timeline that people just, yeah.

[01:02:33] I mean, I guess the other, they were disgraced, but still, um, I just need more complexity

[01:02:38] from the Harkonnens.

[01:02:39] So I hope that he is the one to deliver that because we saw him underestimated this episode

[01:02:44] and I like.

[01:02:45] Definitely.

[01:02:45] Definitely.

[01:02:46] And we, uh, in the, in our mid season, uh, uh, catch up, so to speak, uh, with the Dune

[01:02:52] Minute podcast folks, that was one of their predictions is like, are we going to see something

[01:02:57] that turns house Harkonnen from, you know, fair to middling to down their path?

[01:03:05] But I just mean, yeah, that he would be, I hope that he would be, um, add some moral

[01:03:11] complexity to house Harkonnen that it's not just turning toward evil.

[01:03:15] Because that would be a really great arc to see them sort of struggle with and go through

[01:03:19] these, uh, these changes to how do we get to the Baron.

[01:03:23] Right.

[01:03:23] 10,000 years later.

[01:03:25] Like that's exactly a measurably long amount of my, I mean, you can measure it's 10,000

[01:03:29] years, but we can't conceive of it really.

[01:03:32] So this is the first time we get the word imprinting, uh, dropped on us.

[01:03:37] And this is a very important, uh, aspect into the Dune books, especially the OG books

[01:03:44] and the latter, uh, three.

[01:03:47] There's a lot of imprinting related things, and this is a real world psychological phenomena.

[01:03:54] And, uh, this is where there's a great Wikipedia article on it.

[01:04:00] If you want to read this, uh, on psychology, but it's basically where, uh, you learn to, um, uh,

[01:04:11] attach your sense of identity to another.

[01:04:16] Um, and you learn characteristics and are stimulated by, or, um, uh, a learning thing.

[01:04:26] So, you know, mother and child imprint in this case, this is about sexual imprinting where,

[01:04:33] um, Havico is so taken by his emotional response to Francesca that he can't think logically.

[01:04:41] And it's a form of, uh, in the Dune universe of manipulation.

[01:04:45] Um, there's some great, uh, past real world psychological, uh, uh, experiments.

[01:04:53] There's a great one about a guy who imprints a Canadian geese, you know, and they, they fly

[01:04:58] with him and this kind of stuff.

[01:05:00] So, uh,

[01:05:01] Yeah.

[01:05:01] That's the thing with birds, especially it seems.

[01:05:04] Yeah.

[01:05:04] Right.

[01:05:05] And, uh, I kind of, the, I kind of look at it as another tool like the voice where the

[01:05:13] voice can be used to, uh, manipulate somebody in a moment.

[01:05:17] Mm-hmm.

[01:05:18] Imprinting can be used to manipulate somebody over a very long period of time.

[01:05:23] Yeah.

[01:05:24] And it's the type of control that the sisterhood has over key people.

[01:05:27] Yeah.

[01:05:29] And, and, um, view film fans, you know, when you watch the second Dune, pay attention to

[01:05:35] that scene where Lady Fenring is, uh, Leia Sado, where she is, is seducing, um, fired

[01:05:43] Rautha.

[01:05:44] Um, uh, what's his name?

[01:05:46] Uh, Elvis.

[01:05:48] Oh yeah.

[01:05:49] Austin Butler.

[01:05:50] Yeah.

[01:05:51] Uh, the scene where she's in seducing him, she's basically doing this.

[01:05:55] Right.

[01:05:55] Exactly.

[01:05:57] Uh, yeah.

[01:05:58] And it gets, uh, in the latter Frank Herbert books, it gets a little weird with the imprinting

[01:06:03] stuff.

[01:06:03] It comes into play, but, uh, again, they're, they're grafting these, these key things, but

[01:06:10] it explains why Havico was so taped to Francesca.

[01:06:13] Um, so then we go from the talk of, uh, imprinting right to Havico and Francesca.

[01:06:19] So, you know, they, they bring us right along and we get Francesca lobbying for Constantine,

[01:06:27] which I think is a really, uh, interesting conversation, uh, general in terms of how parents

[01:06:34] can infantilize their children by sort of making their world smaller and not giving them agency

[01:06:42] and a space to, to grow.

[01:06:45] And she's basically saying, look, give him some responsibility, you know, put him out

[01:06:50] there a little bit, let him lean into some stuff and, and then he will grow.

[01:06:56] And that is a very important, one of the very important tenants that Frank Herbert was writing

[01:07:02] about in the original books, which is humanity when faced with the sameness over and over

[01:07:09] again and stagnation and redundancy, we cease to grow.

[01:07:14] And if we cease to grow as a species, then we will wither and die ultimately so that we

[01:07:21] need to be standing on the precipice of the known unit, which is why the quiz that's hot

[01:07:25] or act is so dangerous in some regards, um, is that we have to stand on the edge of the

[01:07:33] unknown and use all of our faculties, use our, our ability to reason into logic and to construct

[01:07:42] new solutions to novel problems.

[01:07:45] That's what, uh, as a trait of our species, that's what keeps us alive as a species and ever

[01:07:53] forward.

[01:07:56] So pretty, pretty, they, it's a, it's a very quick little thing embedded in here.

[01:08:01] And I don't even know that they were intentionally doing it, but that's to me.

[01:08:04] Um, you know what I found interesting about this scene in terms of the imprinting is, and

[01:08:10] it's something that especially stuck out to me when I watched the inside the episode, they

[01:08:15] do these little inside the episode shorts that you can find if you're outside.

[01:08:18] I think in the U S they're on HBO outside the U S you find them on YouTube.

[01:08:22] Um, but when she does that, she kind of like taps his chest, like as she's getting close

[01:08:28] and she's bringing him back into the fold and the, um, and there's a rainbow arc that

[01:08:34] kind of goes out from them at that moment.

[01:08:37] Good catch.

[01:08:37] Yeah.

[01:08:38] Very good.

[01:08:39] Oh, right.

[01:08:39] Yeah.

[01:08:39] There's that, that lens flare thing.

[01:08:41] Yeah.

[01:08:42] Like rainbow lens.

[01:08:43] Yeah.

[01:08:44] That's good.

[01:08:44] And that, that physical tapping, that is definitely something from the latter, uh, OG books where

[01:08:50] there's a, there's a physical component to the imprinting, uh, aspect.

[01:08:56] All right.

[01:08:57] Uh, and the one thing I kind of wish again, they're just cramming a whole bunch of stuff

[01:09:01] in here.

[01:09:01] This would have been a great subplot for a longer episode that had more time to breathe

[01:09:07] is how showing us the subtle control that an imprinted person is under the subtle sway

[01:09:12] that they're under.

[01:09:12] I just wonder how much was left on the cutting room floor because for instance, like the

[01:09:18] whole doe eyes thing with, um, you know, that, that Jen was calling Lila doe eyes.

[01:09:23] It felt like something that should have been better established in scenes that were cut,

[01:09:27] you know, the way they were called, it felt like it was a callback to something that we

[01:09:31] should have already.

[01:09:32] Yeah.

[01:09:33] Agreed.

[01:09:33] Agreed.

[01:09:34] All right.

[01:09:35] So now we've got the laboratory and, uh, sister Avila and here we go.

[01:09:39] So we finally get an answer to what's going on with Desmond's magic space wizard powers.

[01:09:46] It's a pathogen.

[01:09:47] It's a virus.

[01:09:48] It's a genetically modified RNA retrovirus, which isn't a retrovirus already genetically

[01:09:55] modified.

[01:09:55] I'm not sure.

[01:09:56] I tried that up really quick, but anyway, uh, and it's a plague.

[01:10:00] It's similar to a plague, uh, that was, um, infecting the liver of people that produced

[01:10:07] an enzyme that, and we get the word omnius.

[01:10:11] So do you want to give us a quick lore dump on omnius?

[01:10:15] Yeah.

[01:10:15] So there is something called the omnius scourge, which was basically something that's

[01:10:20] also omnius was like the head, the mastermind of the AI mind, basically the head of the machines

[01:10:28] they were fighting, um, in the Butlerian jihad.

[01:10:32] And, um, he works actually with the Tleilaxu to send out a plague that ended up, I want to

[01:10:40] say decimating humanity, but my cousin told me you can only say decimate if you mean one

[01:10:44] tenth and I mean one third.

[01:10:48] It killed about two thirds of the galaxy or, and, um, and then, yeah.

[01:10:54] So this was, you know, obviously to diminish the, the, the human side.

[01:10:59] Um, and then later we get what, what, uh, Raquel was specifically involved in was, um, on Rosak

[01:11:09] there was a worse version of this where it kind of mutated cause Rosak has all this like

[01:11:14] deadly life there.

[01:11:16] Uh, and that was called the Rosak.

[01:11:18] Yeah.

[01:11:19] So it was called the Rosak epidemic and that was more deadly and you'd end up being covered

[01:11:23] in pus filled lesions.

[01:11:25] Um, and the first version could be treated with spice and the second version because the

[01:11:30] spice basically would act as an inhibitor.

[01:11:33] It would block receptor sites so that you didn't uptake, you know, the, the virus.

[01:11:37] Um, and they would also, it, like they said in this, it infects the liver, like they said

[01:11:42] in the show.

[01:11:43] So they would do dialysis.

[01:11:44] And so the spice and the dialysis, they weren't working on the new Rosak epidemic.

[01:11:50] And, um, the other Kayla, basically she ended up getting there, these misborn because this

[01:11:55] planet so has like such toxic life forms.

[01:12:00] The people who were born there, the women would either become sorceresses or they would be considered

[01:12:06] misborn and a lot of them would actually end up, you know, with various deformities and such at earth,

[01:12:11] at birth or, um, uh, mental issues.

[01:12:15] Um, and they would just be sent out into the jungle and some of them survived there for a while, you know,

[01:12:19] and they ended up helping Rakella to figure out the Rosak poison, you know, and she, so this led to her becoming the first mother superior.

[01:12:31] Got it.

[01:12:31] Oh, sorry. Mother superior.

[01:12:33] What am I saying? Reverend mother.

[01:12:34] Same difference.

[01:12:36] And this is all by the way, uh, in the battle of corn book, which is the third book in the, uh, legends trilogy, the, for the trilogy takes place during the great machine war.

[01:12:45] So this is like the end of that. So that's, that's the book version. Um, again, the show is going to do its own thing. So, but that's what they're referring to.

[01:12:55] And instead of, uh, infecting the liver, this is affecting the amygdala.

[01:13:00] It does. It did say it, uh, infects the liver on the show also, but it's, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. And, um, yeah, they, they, uh, uh, Raquel says, uh, that it was, uh, related to this one that she had seen that affects the liver.

[01:13:12] Sure. And the amygdala is an important part of our human brains and it's involved in a lot of things. It's involved in processing memory, decision-making and emotional responses.

[01:13:24] Now in the show, they make a very simple comparison. Oh, it's the fear center. Uh, and yes, anxiety, fear, aggression are all processed in the amygdala. And it's an important part of your flight or fight response, which is a very important part of our Malian history. Um, but it is involved in a lot more complex things. So, um, the, there's also, I heard the Dune Minute guys talking about they, one of their pet theories is that we're going to get the litany against fear, uh, invented.

[01:13:54] In this, which I don't know how we're going to do in, in one episode. Uh, but this is fear. Yeah. They do mention fear a lot. So I think this is again, seeding a lot of.

[01:14:05] Yeah. And Marilyn was asking about that too. So they're making even more casual Dune fans think like, Oh yeah, right. They're letting me fear. Isn't that a thing?

[01:14:14] Right. And then we get this, uh, quick scene with sister Avila, which is the one sort of comedic moment in this episode where, uh, we get her trying to peer through the door.

[01:14:24] And then, uh, then Lila, AKA Raquel, I come pop, pops through.

[01:14:28] Right. And Avila's like, what the heck?

[01:14:30] I thought you were dead.

[01:14:32] Which is, uh, well, it was funny.

[01:14:34] It was.

[01:14:34] And she's, and she, the way she's talking to her too, is not like to an act as an acolyte to, you know, an older sister.

[01:14:40] It's like, you know, the Reverend mother to one of her subjects.

[01:14:43] What kind of abomination is this?

[01:14:46] So we get the word abomination thrown at us.

[01:14:48] All right.

[01:14:49] Next up, we got the side car hitting the club.

[01:14:52] Um, not too, not too much to say here.

[01:14:57] Uh, I, I'm already mentioned.

[01:14:59] I was annoyed by the line that gets thrown out, uh, which is God created Arrakis to train the faithful.

[01:15:08] Uh, and, uh, this is a line that gets, I did a quick search in my Kindle and this gets mentioned a couple of times in the books.

[01:15:17] And in, I think chapter 33 and 48, according to my, my Kindle search.

[01:15:23] Um, and yeah, it's an important line and it's an important line in the movies as well, where Stilgar speaks it.

[01:15:30] So I just, I didn't appreciate her dropping that line, uh, on, uh, on, uh, Desmond here.

[01:15:38] Sorry, my sound trout is interfering with my keyboard here.

[01:15:41] Sorry.

[01:15:42] They're so pesky, these sand trout.

[01:15:45] Uh, right.

[01:15:46] Anything else that you wanted to think?

[01:15:49] Oh, and then of course we get the, uh, uh, bombs going off, right?

[01:15:54] Mm-hmm.

[01:15:55] Oh, wait, is that in, that's just in a minute.

[01:15:57] Sorry.

[01:15:58] That's just in a couple minutes.

[01:15:59] I was really surprised at first that when Kirin killed a couple of the guards that those guards didn't have their shields on.

[01:16:06] But then if you think about it, if you're doing like a close quarters search like that, having a shield on, uh, does affect your ability to hear and see.

[01:16:24] Mm-hmm.

[01:16:26] I just have been reading the first book of Dune, uh, Dune book one.

[01:16:31] The original, yeah.

[01:16:32] And I got the, uh, the scene where I just read the other day, the scene where Leto finds, uh, the shutout mapes and, you know, he begins to discover that the plot is unfolding.

[01:16:45] Underrated character, by the way, but okay.

[01:16:47] Yeah.

[01:16:47] Absolutely.

[01:16:48] I totally, totally.

[01:16:50] Uh, but he, Leto in the interior monologue does say like, oh, if I turn on my shield, I won't be able to perceive as well.

[01:16:59] And I got to figure out what's going on in front of me.

[01:17:01] I'm going to be able to listen and see and that the shield would affect that.

[01:17:05] So that does track.

[01:17:06] That's totally fine.

[01:17:08] The thing that I was a little bit surprised about was though, those canisters of spice, that's a massive fortune.

[01:17:16] That is like zillions and zillions of Solari and they're just dumping it out random.

[01:17:22] But I guess the emperor would rather no one have it than, you know.

[01:17:26] I would have scooped that stuff up, man.

[01:17:28] Yeah.

[01:17:28] I don't know.

[01:17:29] And wait, wait.

[01:17:30] You would think they would confiscate it.

[01:17:31] Yeah.

[01:17:31] Yeah.

[01:17:32] And good thing that they all got masks on because if you're huffing that much spice, I think you'd get pretty high.

[01:17:38] You're about to become a space navigator now.

[01:17:39] Exactly.

[01:17:40] Seriously.

[01:17:41] Seriously.

[01:17:42] Hmm.

[01:17:43] Yeah.

[01:17:44] You know, what I noticed is, you know, we talk about nitpicking when things aren't working for us.

[01:17:49] And I noticed, um, I watched this, I don't know.

[01:17:53] Yeah.

[01:17:54] The day it came out here, which is Monday.

[01:17:56] And then I watched Star Wars today.

[01:17:57] And while I was watching this, like, especially during the club scene, I was getting distracted by the set decoration and stuff in the background.

[01:18:05] And, um, I think it was just because I wasn't as into it.

[01:18:08] And I noticed when I was watching Star Wars today, I had to, I focused on the background.

[01:18:11] I was like, is it qualitatively any better?

[01:18:14] Like, no, the props are not any better.

[01:18:16] I'm just more into the story.

[01:18:17] So I spent this whole scene kind of staring around the club, picking it apart because I wasn't really like.

[01:18:24] Invested in the story.

[01:18:25] Yeah.

[01:18:25] Yeah.

[01:18:26] Yeah.

[01:18:26] There you go.

[01:18:27] That totally makes sense.

[01:18:29] All right.

[01:18:30] So let's jump over to a very quick scene between, uh, Jen and, uh, Tula and, uh, Jen again, and we're, we've got this intimate moment of her being, uh, uh, concerned for her wellbeing.

[01:18:45] And, uh, Lila.

[01:18:47] Yeah.

[01:18:47] Sorry.

[01:18:48] Lila.

[01:18:48] My, my, my apologies.

[01:18:49] Yeah.

[01:18:49] Sorry.

[01:18:49] Not too loud.

[01:18:50] I have Tula, Jen, my notes.

[01:18:52] Rushing these.

[01:18:53] Uh, and we get this question.

[01:18:57] Oh no, no.

[01:18:58] But then, uh, but yeah, Tula is there and we get this point.

[01:19:01] They make a point of, of Tula checking Lila's restraints, which to me is the way these writers work.

[01:19:07] That's clear foreshadowing that she's going to, uh, you know, Dorotea is probably going to show up next episode or something like that and try to get out.

[01:19:15] Um, and we get this whole question about, you know, Jen questions, Tula, like, well, what did you sacrifice?

[01:19:21] And Tula's like a lot more than you could ever realize.

[01:19:24] Yeah.

[01:19:25] Which then made me think about Andor and Luthan's, you know, speech about sacrifice.

[01:19:31] And, um.

[01:19:32] I burn myself for dawn that I shall, what is it?

[01:19:35] Yeah.

[01:19:35] For a, yeah.

[01:19:36] For a dawn on the sea.

[01:19:37] That never come.

[01:19:37] Yeah.

[01:19:38] Dawn on the sea.

[01:19:39] Yeah.

[01:19:39] Which then if you look at the end of the Rogue One movie, the explosion is a kind of dawn that they, they watch.

[01:19:47] So yeah.

[01:19:48] Poetry.

[01:19:49] Poetry.

[01:19:49] Anyway, I'm very excited for, that's my number one anticipated show.

[01:19:53] So.

[01:19:53] I'm very excited for it too.

[01:19:55] That's probably my number two anticipated show after Wheel of Time.

[01:19:57] Just because.

[01:19:58] Nice.

[01:19:58] Yeah.

[01:19:58] Yeah.

[01:19:59] I think that Wheel of Time is probably dwarfs.

[01:20:02] Well, it's also, I, I, I volunteered to take lead on that one.

[01:20:05] So I better get into it.

[01:20:07] That's right.

[01:20:08] That's right.

[01:20:08] Yeah.

[01:20:08] You got to be the advocate for it.

[01:20:10] And yeah, we just recorded our top tens, Yumi and John.

[01:20:14] And that's where we review our, our top 10.

[01:20:16] And normally that would have been a subscriber only podcast.

[01:20:20] It sort of fits within our second breakfast set of shows.

[01:20:25] But we make that particular show available to everyone every year as a Christmas present.

[01:20:29] So that'll be out on the 25th.

[01:20:32] But we talk about our most anticipated shows.

[01:20:35] Right.

[01:20:36] We get a quick, oh, right.

[01:20:40] And we, we didn't really talk about the explosion, I guess.

[01:20:45] And whether Desmond would have survived the explosion.

[01:20:50] Well, they're clearly telling us he's, he's not human.

[01:20:54] If he was human, he wouldn't survive.

[01:20:57] And there's a, there was, there's been some good debate about would a Holtzman field, you

[01:21:01] know, the shield, the thing that makes the shield keep you alive in a, in a circumstance

[01:21:06] like that.

[01:21:06] And from what I can gather, the concussive wave would, and that force, the inertia would

[01:21:15] crush you.

[01:21:16] Yeah.

[01:21:16] Even though you may not get hit by a piece of shrapnel.

[01:21:19] Isn't there something in the original book also about Holtzman's shields?

[01:21:23] Like one of the reasons they're not used so much on Arrakis is because they can actually

[01:21:27] make things more explosive.

[01:21:29] Yeah.

[01:21:30] When, so a couple of things, and they talk about this in the movie is that they, the

[01:21:35] vibration of the Holtzman thing will drive worms crazy and attract them and attract every

[01:21:40] worm in the neighborhood.

[01:21:42] And then the other thing is, is if a lasgun, a laser beam hits it and interacts, then it

[01:21:47] is a, it produces a detonation that is indistinguishable from an atomic bomb let off, which is why people

[01:21:54] don't use that as a thing because then you'd get accused of using atomic weapons and all

[01:21:58] the other houses would attack.

[01:21:59] Right.

[01:21:59] So it's this like oopsie moment.

[01:22:02] Like if a, if a beam touches a, a, a shield bad.

[01:22:07] Right.

[01:22:08] Yeah.

[01:22:08] Cause like Duke Leto, he, um, he clocks or someone, uh, on his security, like probably,

[01:22:14] uh, gurney or something says, uh, that the Harkonnens have stolen a shipment of lasguns

[01:22:20] and they're like, Oh, watch out for the Holtzman shields.

[01:22:23] Yep.

[01:22:23] Yeah.

[01:22:23] And in the, in the books, I just read the dinner scene as well, which we mentioned before.

[01:22:29] So good.

[01:22:30] Like I was like, Oh yeah, the dinner scene.

[01:22:31] And I was like, I was thinking of you as I was being, it's so, so good.

[01:22:35] Um, but there's a shipment of lasguns is involved in that as well.

[01:22:40] Right.

[01:22:40] Yeah.

[01:22:40] Maybe that's when that comes up.

[01:22:42] Yep.

[01:22:43] So, uh, yeah.

[01:22:44] So Desmond is alive.

[01:22:45] Their, their trick didn't work to lure him into blow everything up.

[01:22:50] Uh, uh, yeah.

[01:22:51] The unkillable Desmond at this point.

[01:22:53] Yeah.

[01:22:54] Yeah.

[01:22:55] I don't know.

[01:22:55] I'm kind of like he, you know, he was, it was intriguing, like what's going on with him.

[01:22:59] And it remains intriguing, but I'm just not as interested in his character, to be honest.

[01:23:05] Fair enough.

[01:23:06] Fair enough.

[01:23:07] All right.

[01:23:07] Next scene, uh, mother and son have a little talk and Constantine questions his real purpose.

[01:23:14] If you sisterhood can, you know, manipulate and control this kind of stuff.

[01:23:17] Why, why was I, you know, born and why not?

[01:23:22] Why is my, why am I half?

[01:23:24] What's that?

[01:23:25] Why did you leave me mommy?

[01:23:27] There you go.

[01:23:27] Exactly.

[01:23:28] So we get the revelation that, uh, his real purpose is to protect his sister.

[01:23:34] And I have a question.

[01:23:35] Is that, is she telling the truth or is this more manipulation?

[01:23:42] Um, yeah, I, I mean, we saw obviously that, or we heard about that, um, when they were young,

[01:23:49] he did volunteer himself up to be co-kidnapped to protect his sister.

[01:23:52] So I think we should believe some of that's in there, but also like he left her hanging

[01:24:00] just last episode when they were supposed to go and talk to his dad.

[01:24:03] And of course they talk about it in this episode.

[01:24:05] And he's like, you know, uh, the reason I left you hanging at that meeting, uh, accusing

[01:24:10] our dad himself is because I went to him before that.

[01:24:12] And he was so proud of me that I was going to come because he thought it was to support

[01:24:18] him.

[01:24:19] Right.

[01:24:19] Right.

[01:24:19] So we see how desperate he is for his father's approval.

[01:24:23] And I think that's the biggest factor playing on him in this episode.

[01:24:26] Right.

[01:24:27] Right.

[01:24:28] I did note the, the parallels, uh, we've got Francesca and Constantine, but we also have

[01:24:33] Tula and Desmond, uh, as both these pairs of, of, uh, offspring and mother being separated

[01:24:41] in some way and the trauma and the pain that that can cause.

[01:24:44] And feeling left.

[01:24:45] Yeah.

[01:24:45] Yeah.

[01:24:46] I wonder if Constantine and Desmond could bond over that.

[01:24:49] Probably, probably.

[01:24:51] And then of course we have, uh, Lila and, you know, uh, Tula sort of thinks of Lila as

[01:24:56] a, as a child in some ways.

[01:24:58] So.

[01:24:59] Yeah.

[01:24:59] So.

[01:24:59] Yeah.

[01:25:00] And, and they also on a lower, on the lower front, they have a talk this, uh, in this scene

[01:25:05] where, um, Constantine says, I had to learn about, he says to his mother, I had to learn

[01:25:12] about the great Carino's, um, the Roderick jewels and the butlers before them.

[01:25:17] So this tells me that, you know, I talk, I keep talking about them cutting out this character,

[01:25:22] Anna Carino, who would have been the aunt of Havico.

[01:25:25] And it seems like they cut out her father, Salvador as well, who is the emperor.

[01:25:31] When you start sisterhood of Dune, that's who's the emperor of Salvador.

[01:25:34] Um, so I think, yeah, they just basically cut out that whole side of the family and all

[01:25:39] the plots around them.

[01:25:40] Maybe they want to repeat them in future seasons of this show.

[01:25:44] Yeah.

[01:25:44] Maybe they want to turn, um, Inez into Anna in some way.

[01:25:49] No.

[01:25:50] All right.

[01:25:51] Next scene, we get, uh, Michaela reporting to Valya and, uh, Michaela is complaining a

[01:25:57] little bit about having to destroy everything she's built, which again, out of character for

[01:26:02] a sister in some way.

[01:26:04] And they're, they're setting Michaela up to be a bit rebellious in faction.

[01:26:08] And if she goes back to Arrakis and she's got a chip on her shoulder, uh, what is, what

[01:26:14] does that portent for the, the plot of the sisters in the future?

[01:26:18] Yeah.

[01:26:19] And then we've got Constantine finding some evidence and, uh, Karen is a bad spy and gets

[01:26:27] arrested.

[01:26:29] Uh, it's pretty straightforward.

[01:26:31] I didn't pick up anything specific.

[01:26:35] And then we go to a dinner party.

[01:26:37] Yay.

[01:26:37] And I just mentioned the dinner party in book.

[01:26:39] Right.

[01:26:40] So good.

[01:26:41] Oh, he's writing.

[01:26:42] Frank's writing was so on point, but we get Constantine with a big promotion and, uh, Inez,

[01:26:50] uh, is, well, Natalia is not happy, happy.

[01:26:53] And there's a bunch of looks that are exchanged between everybody and, uh, get confirmation.

[01:26:59] Well, it's, you know, Constantine gets this big promotion, but you know, Inez is like,

[01:27:03] Oh no, sorry, sweetheart.

[01:27:04] You got to stay in your room under guard.

[01:27:06] Right.

[01:27:06] Right.

[01:27:07] And her mom, her mom just like kind of storms off at one point silently.

[01:27:11] And Inez is the only one who really seems to notice.

[01:27:14] Right.

[01:27:15] Right.

[01:27:15] Or yeah, clocked it.

[01:27:16] And then Inez goes to visit Kieran and, uh, somehow she's figured out how to activate

[01:27:22] truth sense, uh, which.

[01:27:25] She's been training with Kasha.

[01:27:27] Yeah.

[01:27:27] Yeah.

[01:27:28] You know, so she's, she's making some leaves and she said, they say that she's talented,

[01:27:31] right?

[01:27:32] They say that she's, uh, definitely talented.

[01:27:34] So I don't, I don't read it as true.

[01:27:37] It would have been nice if we'd seen her practicing it earlier in the season so that there's a little

[01:27:41] setup for it, but fair enough.

[01:27:44] But I, um, and I would also, Kieran is, you know, he's telling the truth.

[01:27:50] Her questions aren't very sly.

[01:27:52] Uh, so maybe her truth sense isn't so good and she has feelings for him.

[01:27:57] So there's a lot of chem complex chemical soup here between the two, but I don't know.

[01:28:02] I'm just not buying their chemistry very much on, on screen.

[01:28:05] So, but no, we get quite a little love too.

[01:28:10] We get a very brief scene of, uh, Jen and Lila.

[01:28:13] I didn't have any notes, uh, on that.

[01:28:15] It was just a setup scene, but then we've got a combined set of scenes here where Tula runs

[01:28:21] the blood sample.

[01:28:23] Natalia, uh, comforts Desmond and Francesca and Javico have a little bit of an inter, uh,

[01:28:31] intimate moment.

[01:28:32] And this is all sort of woven together visually.

[01:28:35] We, uh, we see Desmond clutching that fabric keepsake.

[01:28:40] And then we feel that, uh, he was, uh, his mother is a sister.

[01:28:46] We get the reveal at the same, more or less that his mother, well, that, that he's the

[01:28:50] child of an Atreides and a Harkonnen.

[01:28:52] Yeah.

[01:28:52] Yeah.

[01:28:53] Right.

[01:28:53] Which is the computer.

[01:28:54] It's gotta be Tula.

[01:28:55] Yeah, exactly.

[01:28:56] And we see that.

[01:28:57] But why doesn't it just pop up?

[01:28:59] The computer should be able to say like, it's your child, Tula.

[01:29:04] DNA, 50% you.

[01:29:06] Exactly.

[01:29:08] So, um, yeah, uh, you know, we, people have been theorizing that and, uh, you know, it

[01:29:15] does, it, it fits timeline wise and stuff like that, but it just feels tricksy, you

[01:29:19] know?

[01:29:20] It just feels like they're being tricksy for the sake of being tricksy.

[01:29:22] Yeah.

[01:29:23] I mean, it wasn't, it didn't even feel like, like, I guess we've been wondering who his,

[01:29:29] what, who was, what his identity was, you know, there was the Vorian and Atreides thing

[01:29:34] going out there.

[01:29:34] That would have been a way been more exciting to me, but I guess this makes more sense with

[01:29:38] what they've shown us.

[01:29:39] But it was sort of when the reveal happened, I was like, oh yeah, no, that makes sense.

[01:29:43] Okay.

[01:29:43] Yeah.

[01:29:44] And there's this debatable question about like, you know, okay, um, do you keep widening

[01:29:49] the world out and introducing more storylines?

[01:29:52] And is that harder than for the non, you know, for the average viewer, the average consumer,

[01:30:00] you know, you got to keep the Harkonnens and the Atreides, uh, storylines up front so

[01:30:05] that they can connect the movies, which are the big things.

[01:30:08] And it just feels like, again, to compare Star Wars, we're just stuck on Tatooine.

[01:30:13] We're just stuck with the, uh, with the Skywalker's trilogy.

[01:30:16] And I'm not trying to diminish that storyline, but it's like, they keep going to that well

[01:30:21] over and over again.

[01:30:22] And it gets a little bit tiresome.

[01:30:24] At least, at least it makes sense why they always go back to Arrakis and Doom.

[01:30:28] It's because of the spice.

[01:30:29] Yeah.

[01:30:29] Yeah.

[01:30:29] It's the one source of the spice, but, um, I don't, for me, the biggest problem with this

[01:30:34] reveal, I guess, was like, now do I suddenly think that this explains all of his behavior,

[01:30:42] why he wants to destroy the sister?

[01:30:44] And I'm like, I don't know that I'm getting there.

[01:30:45] And then, oh, and you didn't bring up the hookups at the end.

[01:30:48] Oh, right.

[01:30:49] Yeah.

[01:30:49] Haviko and Francesca have a little bit of a kissy kissy moment.

[01:30:53] And then, and then so does, uh, Natalia and Desmond.

[01:30:57] Yes.

[01:30:57] Oh, of course.

[01:30:58] It was like, that, that made me ick a little bit.

[01:31:01] I was like, oh, I don't know.

[01:31:02] This doesn't feel.

[01:31:04] I mean, I understand she feels jilted by her own husband and yeah, fine on that front.

[01:31:09] But like, I don't know, just none of the chemistry.

[01:31:12] Haviko and, and Francesca, that's the only couple whose chemistry is working for me.

[01:31:18] And we get, uh, Natalia dropping this line.

[01:31:21] Shy Haloud makes the final choice.

[01:31:23] Again, kind of bugs me that they, that, that word, but they're signaling to, uh,

[01:31:27] us that she is, um, she has some zealous, uh, tendencies, zealotry.

[01:31:35] In the Fremen direction.

[01:31:37] Yeah.

[01:31:37] Yeah.

[01:31:38] And it's weird that we haven't seen her like talk or anything about the spice, but like

[01:31:42] she seems really into Fremen culture, except we never see anything with her in the spice.

[01:31:47] That's a good point.

[01:31:49] That's a good point.

[01:31:50] So, uh, and she's obviously taken with Desmond because, oh, he's chosen.

[01:31:53] He survived, you know, something, you know, the hand of God here is, is protecting you.

[01:31:59] And, uh, so that, uh, is very, uh, uh, alluring to her.

[01:32:04] So yeah.

[01:32:05] Again, this is all stuff.

[01:32:06] How are you wrapping up this in?

[01:32:08] Uh, yeah.

[01:32:09] That's why it's like, I feel like I can't properly comment until I see.

[01:32:13] Episode six.

[01:32:14] Yeah.

[01:32:15] Yeah.

[01:32:15] Fair enough.

[01:32:16] Okay.

[01:32:16] Well, that's, uh, that's the episode.

[01:32:17] Any other scene by scene notes?

[01:32:19] Uh, otherwise we could take a quick break and then get into some feedback.

[01:32:22] I want to hear what people think.

[01:32:24] Sounds good.

[01:32:37] And we're back.

[01:32:38] So let's get into a little feedback.

[01:32:42] Thank you again, Nancy, for your expert job.

[01:32:45] I love the way that Nancy brings everything in categorically, right?

[01:32:49] And creates these little structures for us.

[01:32:51] So it's so helpful.

[01:32:53] And I think Nancy's having a good time.

[01:32:55] She, I talked to her the other day.

[01:32:56] She's, she's just having a blast.

[01:32:58] So we really appreciate it.

[01:33:00] Dune at the lorehounds.com for everything Dune related.

[01:33:05] Um, and going forward, hopefully we'll have some more, you know, even if they go to,

[01:33:09] if they go to a season two, we're certainly going to get a third movie and the books are always

[01:33:14] there for us no matter what.

[01:33:17] So in blood truth, the, uh, spoilery, the deep spoilery stuff is at the very end of this

[01:33:23] cover that the, uh, post credits, uh, sequence.

[01:33:27] And our first category is, Oh my not happy.

[01:33:32] Do you want to start off with, uh, Tina's comments?

[01:33:34] So Tina says, Oh, this show is tough.

[01:33:38] The writing just doesn't make sense anymore.

[01:33:40] And I'm not talking about Canon or lore.

[01:33:41] I haven't read any of the XD books.

[01:33:44] So I don't, I have no idea how far the writers stray from that, but the character development

[01:33:48] and motivations use of the established Frank Herbert book lore and depiction of a grand

[01:33:54] universe are all lacking and confusing to me.

[01:33:56] Yeah.

[01:33:57] See, that's about my point the whole time.

[01:33:58] Sometimes, you know, I compare to the book lore just to illustrate like, here's, they were

[01:34:04] handed this story that made sense.

[01:34:06] And then they decided to do something that doesn't make sense instead.

[01:34:10] Anyway, um, Tina says it's also too much origin story for me in just three to 40 years for

[01:34:16] a timeline that spans thousands of years.

[01:34:18] We get origins of the voice truth sense, the abomination, probably the Sardaukar.

[01:34:23] They throw in some face dancer and possibly Gola lore, um, add a reckoning that will probably

[01:34:30] turn the sisterhood into the Bene Gesserit and bring forth their famous fear litany.

[01:34:34] This show is so overambitious that with only one episode left, I still don't know exactly

[01:34:39] what story they are trying to tell.

[01:34:41] A short six episode season didn't have the effect of tight writing and focused storytelling.

[01:34:46] I'm not sure they would have done better with 10 episodes or if it would only be a bigger

[01:34:51] mess.

[01:34:52] Maybe David and Alicia can talk me into liking the show, but for me, this show gets worse

[01:34:56] every episode.

[01:34:57] And I'm sorry, but I agree with you, Tina.

[01:35:00] Yeah.

[01:35:00] I'm not talking you out of anything on this one.

[01:35:03] I mean, we're happy because it's lore and it's on a, you know, it's Dune lore on a screen.

[01:35:08] And it's pretty.

[01:35:09] Sure is pretty.

[01:35:09] Sure is pretty.

[01:35:11] Love that cast.

[01:35:12] Yeah.

[01:35:14] But yeah, it does.

[01:35:15] And I think you, Alicia, made a similar comment, which is it didn't matter what the episode

[01:35:20] length was.

[01:35:21] Yeah.

[01:35:22] Yeah.

[01:35:22] The, the quality, the base quality here is lacking.

[01:35:27] Aaron K., one of our affiliate podcast holders as well, Radioactive Ramblings, go check them

[01:35:33] out.

[01:35:33] They're covering, they did some Arcane coverage.

[01:35:36] They've got Red Risers Rambling.

[01:35:38] They did a great season, great job on Fallout this year.

[01:35:41] Ghibli.

[01:35:42] Ghibli.

[01:35:43] Ghibli.

[01:35:43] They're also covering some stuff.

[01:35:45] So Aaron says, in this kind of prequel story, where we already know the fate of the universe,

[01:35:51] the showrunners need to make us care about the fate of the characters they missed on that

[01:35:56] right.

[01:35:56] Oh, that's really a very observation.

[01:35:59] Most of the characters I find really interesting are underdeveloped.

[01:36:02] Too much screen time for Haviko and Desmond and not enough for Inez.

[01:36:06] I also couldn't name a single personality trait of Sister Avila other than raining on Tula's

[01:36:12] parade 24-7.

[01:36:16] Not wrong.

[01:36:17] Not wrong.

[01:36:18] Yeah.

[01:36:18] And I mentioned this, I think like on the last pod that Avila just seems to be a foil

[01:36:22] for whatever they want in Tula.

[01:36:24] They need to sharpen Tula's responses or reactions.

[01:36:27] They just throw Avila out there.

[01:36:30] I'm not really sure what those true motivations are.

[01:36:32] Do you want to get Jean Jr.?

[01:36:35] Yeah, who's also another one of our co-host persons on Comics Versus with you.

[01:36:41] Yes.

[01:36:41] So watch out for our Joker folie de and our Joker versus Madcap episode to come out soon.

[01:36:48] Very cool.

[01:36:49] But Jean says, the big reveal felt weak in my viewing.

[01:36:51] It was like, oh, well, I guess that makes sense.

[01:36:53] I felt no emotional heft to it.

[01:36:56] Jen seems like such a wild card to me, Tula.

[01:36:59] Turning to her had me thinking, nah, that wouldn't happen, even as Jen scrambles to help

[01:37:04] Lila.

[01:37:04] Yeah.

[01:37:05] I mean, I guess the explanation they gave there is she was the one who didn't have the

[01:37:08] dreams.

[01:37:08] She can't be influenced.

[01:37:10] I guess she didn't catch the virus.

[01:37:12] But yeah.

[01:37:13] Jean says, I also wasn't moved by the palace shenanigans.

[01:37:16] As soon as I saw Sister Francesca, I knew where it was headed.

[01:37:20] Yeah.

[01:37:21] This feels like everybody's been hanging in.

[01:37:23] And then this is the episode that it just feels like the...

[01:37:27] I think we expected it.

[01:37:28] It's the penultimate episode, you know?

[01:37:29] Yeah.

[01:37:30] But this is the one where people were 50-50 on the show and now the pendulum has swung

[01:37:35] to people are like, crossing their arms a little bit, gnashing their teeth slightly.

[01:37:40] Yeah.

[01:37:41] We'll see how they land.

[01:37:43] I love Nancy's categories here.

[01:37:45] WTF, where did the Sadakar come from?

[01:37:49] Aaron Kay says, about the Sadakar reveal, Havako says at the ceremony that it's the same day

[01:37:55] as the attack on the Landsrat.

[01:37:56] Oh, good catch.

[01:37:58] You mentioned that too, Alicia.

[01:37:59] How does that timeline for creating an entire elite force work?

[01:38:04] Good question.

[01:38:05] You want to pick up Brian?

[01:38:07] The unveiling of the Sadakar was disappointing.

[01:38:10] They just appear.

[01:38:11] They don't act like elite troops.

[01:38:13] And because we don't know their background in elite training, it's like meh and a lost lore opportunity.

[01:38:18] You know what I had with the problem I had?

[01:38:21] And it's the same problem that I had when they showed the Landsrat room.

[01:38:28] You know, I'm like, this is too small, but it's a budget thing.

[01:38:32] And I guess you could say in this case that the forces will grow.

[01:38:36] But yeah, there was like 30 people in that force.

[01:38:40] What are they going to do?

[01:38:41] And Jean also chimes in, the elite fighting force, where have they been hiding?

[01:38:46] Who was training them?

[01:38:47] Are they mercenaries?

[01:38:48] Did Desmond have them off world somewhere?

[01:38:50] If he did, then it would seem to me that they, and him by extension, would be a bigger worry than some band of insurgents.

[01:38:56] They felt very unsullied to me.

[01:38:59] I wasn't feeling it.

[01:39:01] Well, I do have to say the Sadakar where they grow into are very unsullied coded.

[01:39:06] Well, or probably vice versa, to be honest.

[01:39:10] Could Desmond be Superman?

[01:39:12] Do you want to get Chumbaruni?

[01:39:14] Chumbaruni.

[01:39:15] Chumbaruni.

[01:39:16] I love saying your name, Chumbaruni.

[01:39:19] Desmond didn't have enough injuries to survive a blast, even with a shield like that.

[01:39:23] But you can see his face got fucked up in that last scene with the Emperor's wife.

[01:39:27] I thought Desmond using the shield and surviving that explosion was a little cheap.

[01:39:32] How do people actually die in this universe if shields are that crazy?

[01:39:36] And I think it's not the shield.

[01:39:37] I think it's something about him being a machine or something.

[01:39:42] But still, machines should blow up too.

[01:39:44] So I...

[01:39:45] That was a pretty significant explosion.

[01:39:47] He was surrounded by it.

[01:39:48] Yeah.

[01:39:48] He should have been squished into jelly even just from the concussive forces.

[01:39:52] And Sub-Zero.

[01:39:53] Oh, and I have to laugh because the Sub-Zero's Discord icon looks very much like the masks that the proto-Sadokar are wearing as well.

[01:40:03] Right.

[01:40:04] An elite troop of Sub-Zero.

[01:40:06] Right.

[01:40:07] But you pointed out that it looks like the Decepticons from Transformers.

[01:40:10] Oh, right.

[01:40:10] No, but that was a...

[01:40:11] Oh, that was a...

[01:40:12] Okay.

[01:40:13] Yeah.

[01:40:13] When Constantine is sitting on the steps in the training room, he looks up and then there's like this...

[01:40:18] I don't know why they showed that to us because we haven't seen it before.

[01:40:22] But there's some sort of symbol up there, like a house sigil type of thing.

[01:40:27] And it looked very much sort of Decepticon Autobot inspired.

[01:40:31] Anyway, the whole bar scene annoyed me.

[01:40:34] There's no way that Hart survived an explosion of that scale.

[01:40:37] The concussive...

[01:40:38] Here we go.

[01:40:38] The concussive force that would have turned the side into pulp.

[01:40:41] And then Kieran and Michaela decide to stop outside the scene for a scene of the crime to have a little heart-to-heart.

[01:40:46] I don't know how they can tie it up all the loose ends in a single episode unless it's a two-hour finale.

[01:40:51] Yeah, we didn't really talk about Kieran and Michaela breaking up.

[01:40:54] Yeah.

[01:40:55] Basically says, yeah, you tricked us, so bye-bye.

[01:41:00] Yeah.

[01:41:01] Yeah.

[01:41:02] And John also says he wants a better explanation for the personal force field for Desmond, but I know I probably won't get it, he says.

[01:41:10] And Abby also wants to know, how does Desmond survive that blast and scathe?

[01:41:14] Not even a cough?

[01:41:15] The Holtzman shield protects against smoke.

[01:41:18] But again, I just don't know that he's human, even though he has DNA.

[01:41:23] I don't know.

[01:41:24] Yeah.

[01:41:25] Yeah.

[01:41:25] And no, Abby, they don't protect against smoke.

[01:41:28] No.

[01:41:29] And that's why the Baron in the first movie with the poison gas is affected by the gas.

[01:41:35] He just didn't get enough.

[01:41:37] The shield kept enough of the gas away from him for just long enough for him to survive.

[01:41:42] And he also, he reacted quickly.

[01:41:44] Yes.

[01:41:45] Yeah.

[01:41:45] Exactly.

[01:41:47] I do have to say, Villeneuve shot that scene beautifully with the Baron up in the ceiling.

[01:41:51] Yeah.

[01:41:52] It was really great.

[01:41:52] Yeah.

[01:41:53] Even though in the book, the suspensors don't work quite like that, that's more of like a

[01:41:57] first Dune movie reference.

[01:41:59] But I thought that was really cool to show him.

[01:42:01] Yeah.

[01:42:01] Yeah.

[01:42:02] Yeah.

[01:42:02] Like a bug hiding in the corner of the ceiling.

[01:42:05] So good.

[01:42:05] So good.

[01:42:06] I think Villeneuve has done some nice interpretations of the technology and stuff.

[01:42:10] Yeah.

[01:42:12] Next category with just one comment, exactly how evil is Valya?

[01:42:16] Maureen D says that we think Tula's biggest crime in the eyes of her sister may be giving

[01:42:22] birth versus slaughtering all those people.

[01:42:25] Tells you everything we need to know about Valya.

[01:42:30] True.

[01:42:30] That's hilarious for me.

[01:42:32] That's pretty true.

[01:42:33] Very true.

[01:42:34] And the small rooms where it happens.

[01:42:37] We got a voice now.

[01:42:39] Oh, okay.

[01:42:40] Yeah.

[01:42:40] So Brian8063, Lorebrary Master.

[01:42:43] And he released a new blog post recently, right?

[01:42:49] Yeah.

[01:42:49] Yeah.

[01:42:50] Definitely go check out.

[01:42:51] Yeah.

[01:42:51] We do have a blog.

[01:42:52] So if you like to write and or if you like to read, check out our blog.

[01:42:56] Go to lorehounds.com and there's a link for the blog.

[01:42:59] And we have an open submission policy.

[01:43:01] And Brian is our editor in chief.

[01:43:04] And so there's a blog post on there that explains how to submit things.

[01:43:07] So if you, you know, you're like, oh, wow, this makes me think about this or I want to

[01:43:10] write about this experience that's related to that.

[01:43:12] Definitely send it in.

[01:43:13] And we're very open and happy to publish all stuff.

[01:43:17] Anyway, let's listen to Brian's voicemail.

[01:43:21] Hello, Alicia and David.

[01:43:23] I wanted to leave a voicemail message here.

[01:43:25] I'll be brief as possible because time is precious.

[01:43:29] This stems from our Discord Dune channels.

[01:43:33] And I will call this segment in defense of the small.

[01:43:37] I'll start with a little criticism first.

[01:43:39] This episode pulled me out of the story.

[01:43:42] I do not feel the high stakes here.

[01:43:45] More tension should be happening.

[01:43:47] The rise of the Tsar Dukar took me out of the narrative.

[01:43:53] There needs to be more context and lore exploration here.

[01:43:58] Okay, defense of the small.

[01:44:00] We're seeing a lot of meetings here.

[01:44:03] Decisions made in rooms.

[01:44:04] I think this is natural.

[01:44:06] If you imagine all the places impactful decisions are made, it is in the small moments.

[01:44:12] As a historian who studies the presidency, I think about the Oval Office, the White House residence, deputy level meetings.

[01:44:20] Imagine the Tsar Palace, Mao's office or apartment.

[01:44:24] Xi's office today in China.

[01:44:27] 10 Downing Street, a parlor among suffragettes.

[01:44:30] And the list goes on and on and on.

[01:44:34] The millions of meetings, discussions, and moments that make history.

[01:44:38] We see this in this episode and the previous one with the Emperor, with Hart and the Emperor and his family.

[01:44:47] I can appreciate that.

[01:44:50] But what I think we're losing is the broader tensions and stakes and the exploration of the lore.

[01:44:57] We've seen television programs that have small meetings and discussions and dialogue

[01:45:03] that you still get the impact and tension.

[01:45:09] However, with that said, it's still a fascinating world and the acting is excellent.

[01:45:14] Anyway, we will see what happens in the final episode.

[01:45:18] Thanks for all your coverage.

[01:45:19] And I will see you both on the other side.

[01:45:22] Brian, AD63.

[01:45:24] I might have missed the discussion that this is a defense against.

[01:45:28] But yeah, absolutely.

[01:45:29] Absolutely.

[01:45:30] My when I made the comment earlier about things like the Sardaukar and the Lonsraud meeting being too small.

[01:45:37] That's because those are supposed to be like the Lonsraud.

[01:45:40] They did say it's the High Council, so it'd be smaller.

[01:45:43] But it would be like if we saw the Star Wars Senate.

[01:45:47] But suddenly it was just, you know, a side meeting.

[01:45:52] And they're like, this is a Senate meeting.

[01:45:53] You're like, what?

[01:45:54] Where's the whole chamber with all the senators, you know?

[01:45:58] So that's when I said that it looked too small.

[01:46:01] It was only for things that were supposed to be on a large scale.

[01:46:04] But yeah, obviously the important, the room where it happens.

[01:46:08] Indeed.

[01:46:08] That's a famous song from the Hamilton play for anyone who doesn't know.

[01:46:13] It is like the people in charge having quiet meetings that decide these things.

[01:46:18] And interestingly enough, Nancy and Brian had a little aside about that, that Nancy used to work at a level of government where she was present to a lot of those meetings.

[01:46:31] And how impactful those small meetings really are.

[01:46:35] And of course, Brian is a historian, as a professional historian, academic, quasi-academic, I guess.

[01:46:42] Yeah, steady moments.

[01:46:43] So yeah, I take the point and I think it is interesting.

[01:46:47] They do capture these moments, but yeah, we're losing.

[01:46:52] Yeah, but they're just not like, these could be the most compelling scenes, you know?

[01:46:57] Totally, totally.

[01:46:58] Like I was telling Luke about, there's two characters, Bernard and Sims in Silo.

[01:47:06] And I was saying, you know, it's gotten to the point where a couple episodes ahead of what has aired.

[01:47:14] But it's gotten to the point where when I watch their scenes, I hide under a blanket watching through like, oh my God, this is so tense.

[01:47:21] I got to catch up.

[01:47:23] Seems like the season's going pretty well.

[01:47:25] Yeah, I'm really enjoying it.

[01:47:27] That's great.

[01:47:28] All right.

[01:47:29] We've got some people ready to collect their internet points.

[01:47:32] We like to award bowls of cereal around here with the lore hounds.

[01:47:37] Do you want to read Rocky's in?

[01:47:39] Yeah, it says,

[01:47:40] The piece of black cloth from the first episode, the one Desmond had and still has, is a piece of Tula's dress somehow.

[01:47:45] Not currently, but somehow from before.

[01:47:48] Or Desmond thinks it may be from her.

[01:47:49] He has been wanting revenge.

[01:47:51] He also may be protecting, at least watching Kieran, because he is an Atreides.

[01:47:56] I was wondering if they were somehow working together.

[01:47:58] They aren't, but Desmond has kept an eye on Kieran.

[01:48:03] Yeah, that's a good call.

[01:48:04] Definitely a good call.

[01:48:05] I hadn't thought about the fact that Kieran is his descendant or related cousin kind of thing.

[01:48:13] I don't know.

[01:48:13] Yeah.

[01:48:14] So let's see.

[01:48:15] His grandfather, right?

[01:48:17] He said his grandfather was Albert.

[01:48:18] No, his father was Albert.

[01:48:20] And we don't know how Albert was related to Ori in the show.

[01:48:25] No, we don't.

[01:48:26] Albert's a made up character.

[01:48:27] He's not in the books.

[01:48:28] Yeah.

[01:48:28] Right.

[01:48:29] Right.

[01:48:30] Abby, who is also one of our other co-hosts and works with you on the Silo book series.

[01:48:36] On the book club, yeah.

[01:48:37] Yeah.

[01:48:37] She says, theory, there will be a showdown between Kieran and Constantine in the next episode.

[01:48:42] They'll kill each other.

[01:48:43] Valya might have won with Tula if she finds out about the love child.

[01:48:48] On the abomination front, my prediction is that Dorothea will pop out to slash Valya's throat at the end.

[01:48:55] The sisterhood will continue under the leadership of Jen.

[01:48:58] Everyone else dies.

[01:49:00] Rest in peace.

[01:49:01] Okay.

[01:49:02] Abby's putting down some big markers here for big internet points.

[01:49:07] You're going to win big if that, especially if Valya gets taken out.

[01:49:12] I could see that happening with Dorothea coming out to slash Valya's throat.

[01:49:16] Yeah.

[01:49:16] I just don't see how Jen ascends.

[01:49:18] How Jen of all people.

[01:49:19] Yeah.

[01:49:20] I mean, I would get Lila out of anything, but yeah.

[01:49:23] It would be a big turn for Jen.

[01:49:25] I could see them.

[01:49:26] Yeah.

[01:49:27] They're building a lot of tension for Jen and that's got to release at some point.

[01:49:31] There's got to be some reason why they're putting so much focus on her.

[01:49:35] Exactly.

[01:49:37] And Zatoichi, I wonder if we'll find out in the last episode that sisterhood was responsible for the kidnapping of the royal children.

[01:49:44] Yes.

[01:49:44] I like that.

[01:49:45] I like that a lot.

[01:49:47] That would be very much in line.

[01:49:49] Yeah.

[01:49:50] All right.

[01:49:51] The next category.

[01:49:52] We saved you from the horrible people who took you, who is also us.

[01:49:56] All part of the manipulation, right?

[01:49:58] Yeah.

[01:50:01] Building Inez's internal mythology about herself and about her place in the family and stuff.

[01:50:07] Yeah.

[01:50:07] I remember that.

[01:50:09] All right.

[01:50:09] The next category.

[01:50:10] And the Emmy goes to...

[01:50:11] Da, da, da.

[01:50:14] The acting remains very impressive, Erin Kaye says, from everyone involved.

[01:50:18] And I think the actors are making the best of the story they've been giving.

[01:50:21] Agree.

[01:50:22] Tina says the actor who plays Lila does Chloe...

[01:50:26] Chloe Leia, I guess is her name?

[01:50:28] Yeah.

[01:50:29] Does a great job switching between her scared self, a horrifying Dorotea, and a confident and determined Raquel.

[01:50:36] Indeed.

[01:50:36] Indeed.

[01:50:37] Bravo to Chloe Leia.

[01:50:40] Rocky Zim.

[01:50:41] I'm enjoying the Travis Fimmel performance.

[01:50:43] I know people are hating on him, but he is doing what he does best and paid a ton of money for it.

[01:50:51] Crazy space wizard.

[01:50:52] Good for him.

[01:50:53] And so then we have random thoughts about characters and stuff.

[01:50:56] A groggy one says, I don't understand why Desmond needed Harrow to tell him to go look in the underworld.

[01:51:02] Seems pretty obvious.

[01:51:03] Yeah, I agree.

[01:51:04] Loved all the shots of the palace and ships, though.

[01:51:07] Mm-hmm.

[01:51:07] The set design continues to blow my mind.

[01:51:10] Yes.

[01:51:11] A hundred percent.

[01:51:12] And of course, Marilyn, our favorite Tolkien scholar and another one of our great co-hosts.

[01:51:16] I'm wondering if Desmond knows of his Atreides Harkonnen ancestry.

[01:51:20] They did say that he knows that his mother was a sister, but I'm not sure that they specified that he knew which families he came from.

[01:51:27] That's a good point.

[01:51:28] They have not told us that.

[01:51:29] Just that one piece.

[01:51:31] Well, the big reveal caught me by surprise.

[01:51:33] I didn't see that Desmond was Tula's son.

[01:51:35] I think we thought Tula's son might be Kieran at one point.

[01:51:39] And now I find myself wondering if Desmond and Kieran are half brothers.

[01:51:43] Mm-mm.

[01:51:44] Kieran's too young.

[01:51:45] I find it highly unlikely that the Empress would go for Desmond in a sexual way.

[01:51:50] I do see her being attracted to power, but come on.

[01:51:54] He is such a commoner.

[01:51:56] I really don't see how lowering herself to that level.

[01:51:59] I think it's mostly HBO effect.

[01:52:01] I would counter that it's more on the religious zealotry angle.

[01:52:05] Mm-hmm.

[01:52:06] She says to him, oh, you've been chosen.

[01:52:08] Right.

[01:52:08] Yeah.

[01:52:09] Yeah.

[01:52:09] Habiko says, I think in episode one, he says, oh, religion is the refuge of my wife or something to that effect.

[01:52:16] You know, that she's more into that stuff than he is.

[01:52:18] Yeah.

[01:52:19] Yeah.

[01:52:19] And also, you know, it's not like she's marrying him.

[01:52:22] So it's not lowering herself.

[01:52:24] It's just, you know, she wants a romp, I guess, to make herself also feel better about the fact that her husband's ex-lover is back.

[01:52:31] And clearly he's gaga for her again.

[01:52:34] Good point.

[01:52:35] Very good point.

[01:52:36] Continuing, now we know why Tula kept Jen around.

[01:52:39] It seems that Tula thought that Jen could be a way of reaching Lila since they were such close friends.

[01:52:44] Doe Eyes does seem to be an odd nickname between friends, though.

[01:52:48] I really like that Raquel came alive through Lila, which of course implies so can Dorotea.

[01:52:54] Like everybody's like, we're clocking most of the plot stuff.

[01:52:59] Yep.

[01:53:00] Will Lila wind up being taken over by Dorotea so that she can kill Tula or Valia?

[01:53:06] Stay tuned.

[01:53:07] It seems as though the sisterhood is Inez's only refuge now, though she is still hoping to rely on her sword master, it seems.

[01:53:17] I absolutely adore the sound choreography used when Haviko announces his appointment of Desmond as Bashar.

[01:53:25] At the end of each of his statements, you hear the resounding thud as sections of the troop of the proto-Sadhakar turn from one direction to another, always keeping their faces towards the emperor.

[01:53:35] Brilliant.

[01:53:37] Yeah.

[01:53:38] Good blocking.

[01:53:39] Yeah.

[01:53:39] Good.

[01:53:39] Yeah.

[01:53:39] And definitely some good sound effect.

[01:53:41] The use of the thumper and some other scenes.

[01:53:46] You want to get to Abby's?

[01:53:48] Abby says, yes.

[01:53:49] Some quick thoughts.

[01:53:50] Desmond got a new outfit and he's been very busy in between episodes of recruiting and training Sardakar or else they just popped out of the ground like Gimli would say.

[01:53:59] His powers, quote unquote, are still a mystery.

[01:54:01] Even with finding the Omnius virus, how exactly does he infect individual persons or are they all infected and he just triggers it somehow?

[01:54:11] Yeah.

[01:54:11] That's my thought.

[01:54:12] When I was describing the virus before, the Omnius scourge and the later Rossak epidemic, we're talking about something that looks more plague-like where people kind of waste away and they have neurological symptoms and stuff too.

[01:54:26] But it's not this burning thing, although we'll talk about something else that is brought up by someone else later.

[01:54:33] Yeah.

[01:54:34] But how could that possibly – what are the mechanics of it that he can target only certain people in a room and make it happen in a certain time?

[01:54:43] So, yeah.

[01:54:45] Yeah.

[01:54:45] Even though we got big reveals, we still have a bunch of questions yet to resolve about how all this works.

[01:54:50] Agreed.

[01:54:50] Yeah.

[01:54:51] I'm not sure if we're going to get it resolved, but I have hopes.

[01:54:54] Bring it home.

[01:54:55] One more episode.

[01:54:56] Bring it home.

[01:54:57] Abby says, fear is a mind killer and also flammable.

[01:55:00] But, yeah.

[01:55:03] Which is funny.

[01:55:05] But I have a question.

[01:55:07] Like, was that kid scared when he died?

[01:55:09] No.

[01:55:11] The kid Pruitt in the first – was that the first episode?

[01:55:14] Yeah.

[01:55:14] Anyway.

[01:55:15] Yeah, right.

[01:55:15] Yeah.

[01:55:15] Fear is a mind killer.

[01:55:16] Yeah.

[01:55:17] Inez was also very busy in between episodes.

[01:55:19] She didn't even need to go to Wallach 9 as she seems to be a full truth-sayer sister.

[01:55:25] I wish the Atreides – which also, maybe we should be questioning about, you know, she thinks she's doing the truth-saying, but is she really fully trained?

[01:55:35] Did she do it well?

[01:55:36] Or is she not?

[01:55:38] Yeah, it was kind of like the unreliable narrator thing.

[01:55:41] Like, oh, this is an unreliable truth-sayer thing.

[01:55:43] Like, she's clouded by her feelings for Kieran.

[01:55:46] Mm-hmm.

[01:55:47] Her truth sense isn't really that great.

[01:55:49] And it's not just about being able to detect truths, but actually asking the right questions.

[01:55:55] Right.

[01:55:55] In a way to elicit response that you don't already have a bias to hear the answer for.

[01:56:01] There's a really great part of the first Dune book where Lady Jessica and Hawat have this conversation, and without getting into the conversation, part of what Herbert does is he talks about you can detect patterns of thought based on people's beliefs at a sort of a meta-context level.

[01:56:22] And that's part of what the Bene Gesserit work on is observing another person at a remove so you can see the bigger patterns that they're being influenced by.

[01:56:33] And so part of your truth sense is the ability to ask questions to reveal those patterns.

[01:56:40] And if you're by, if you can't see your own patterns, then you're locked into a dynamic with the other person that you can also be adversely influenced by their answers.

[01:56:54] So.

[01:56:54] Right.

[01:56:54] That's a bunch of speculation and extending on my part, but I think it, to me, it would track some of this.

[01:57:02] So carry on.

[01:57:03] Abby says, I wish the Atreides fellow could decide on a consistent accent.

[01:57:07] I know, I know he is good guy coded, but I'm finding him annoying.

[01:57:12] I did look up his, I was curious about his accent.

[01:57:14] He's from Liverpool, by the way, if anyone else was wondering.

[01:57:18] Natalia is a zealot and a petty power hungry, jealous woman who is of course, because it's HBO, attracted to Desmond.

[01:57:25] She perceives that he is the one with power, not hobby co.

[01:57:29] Yeah.

[01:57:29] I could think maybe of a point there.

[01:57:31] End of this rush story that wanted too much and achieved too little.

[01:57:35] Oh, there's another episode.

[01:57:36] LOL.

[01:57:37] Yeah.

[01:57:39] Cinematography, set design and costumes are great.

[01:57:42] As David usually says on the podcast, if you take the episode apart into little pieces, it looks great, sounds great.

[01:57:47] And there is lore.

[01:57:48] But is the, does the lore make sense?

[01:57:51] This is my problem.

[01:57:52] Yes.

[01:57:53] Even ignoring the fact that it breaks, you know, book lore doesn't make sense internally.

[01:57:58] And so far I'm not convinced yet.

[01:58:00] Right.

[01:58:00] Yeah.

[01:58:01] Our, our, our listeners are getting a little salty in their feedback.

[01:58:05] Totally here for it.

[01:58:06] Yeah.

[01:58:07] Uh, a, we're not finished with the episode four yet category with Marilyn.

[01:58:12] Uh, I know it's way late for my response to the pod for Dune 4, but such is life.

[01:58:47] A couple of points.

[01:58:47] Different parts of the body.

[01:58:48] I know it's a great thing.

[01:58:53] And they're not going to be able to do with the situation and touch.

[01:58:56] I think that Sister Avila is completely committed to the sisterhood.

[01:58:59] It's just that her ideas on what's best to do vary for Tula's.

[01:59:02] I had an aha moment. Avila is also the name of the town in which

[01:59:06] Saint Teresa of Avila lived. She was instrumental

[01:59:11] in writing a major description of the mystical experiences

[01:59:16] known as the interior soul. Which I think is the memory thing

[01:59:21] or Marilyn correct me but like where you kind of

[01:59:25] you remember things by visualizing. Oh right building a house in your

[01:59:29] head and oh I'm going to put this memory. Let me know if you mean something else but that's what

[01:59:33] I take it as. Nice. She did not bother to hide the fact that

[01:59:37] she was a cranky old woman with lots of aches and pains. I wonder

[01:59:41] if any association tended. I think the spice is a

[01:59:45] stand in for any valuable resource. Oil, gold, rare metals.

[01:59:49] Yes absolutely. Frank Herbert was very explicitly writing about

[01:59:53] oil and OPEC and the chome and he was trying to think of

[01:59:58] not oil in a one for one but oil as a

[02:00:02] key resource by which the rest of society bases its

[02:00:06] orders and organizes itself around.

[02:00:09] And if you then start to mess with that because he's writing it

[02:00:13] as oil is becoming a dominant force in economy and so in some ways he's a little

[02:00:19] presciate because the

[02:00:22] the OPEC messing with oil prices doesn't happen until the 70s and he's writing in the

[02:00:27] early 60s. In the 60s yeah.

[02:00:29] But he's thinking very much about this kind of stuff and

[02:00:32] moving the taking these ideas and understanding his from his understanding of

[02:00:38] humanity and then taking this and then moving it out forward which is really what

[02:00:42] that's one of the things I love about the OPEC books is his ability to take these real

[02:00:47] world concepts and phenomena and then think about them 10,000 years later.

[02:00:55] Anyway, the one in power is the one who controls the resource.

[02:00:59] As they've said already invariably harm will come for anyone who gathers or uses any of

[02:01:04] such substance. And of course Paul says in the movies and in the books you know he who

[02:01:08] can destroy a thing controls a thing.

[02:01:12] Continuing I find it interesting.

[02:01:13] Like and apply that which you just said to the pouring out the spice barrel.

[02:01:18] Yes, right. Yeah, good point.

[02:01:20] I find it interesting that Valya is criticized for using her nephew to make her way back into

[02:01:26] the center of power. What other tools does she have?

[02:01:29] Whatever her motivation is she if she is to serve the sisterhood.

[02:01:35] Yeah, good question.

[02:01:37] And I think they're just playing with that whole thing of is our Valya and Tula

[02:01:42] Harkonnens or are they sisters? Like where does it where does allegiance lie and

[02:01:45] the tension therein? And I think that's a good tension with the Valya character.

[02:01:49] That's interesting.

[02:01:52] I will note Riley that there is no coincidence in the close connection between the words

[02:01:57] hysteria and hysterectomy as Alicia referred to.

[02:02:02] Very good.

[02:02:04] Yeah, because they said the hysteria was like a migrating uterus. So in hysterectomy is when

[02:02:10] you remove a uterus.

[02:02:12] Yeah, it's just moving around doing its own thing.

[02:02:14] Exactly. Women be crazy because their uterus is all over the place.

[02:02:19] Literally.

[02:02:19] But every time we do an operation, it's in the same place.

[02:02:22] Right.

[02:02:23] Boy, we are with some weird thought. Dark age of humanity.

[02:02:28] Any time the phrase cone of silence comes up, I always think of Maxwell Smart. Yes.

[02:02:35] Funny.

[02:02:36] Great television show from back to the day.

[02:02:38] And I was recently struck by the strangeness of assuming that any time you visited your

[02:02:43] ancestors spiritually, they were all going to be ferocious.

[02:02:48] That certainly is not the case for many other cultures in which people seek out their ancestors

[02:02:52] for guidance, wisdom, protection, love, and respect.

[02:02:55] Definitely in the Black Panther series, all the ancestors are benevolent.

[02:03:01] But here, other memories are craving the spotlight of consciousness and will do a lot of things

[02:03:08] to get that. And some are benevolent, some are not. It just sort of depends.

[02:03:13] Yeah. I mean, I think that makes sense in general. If I look back through my own ancestry,

[02:03:18] I know that they're all not all going to be nice people.

[02:03:22] Right. Right. You want to wrap up with the second?

[02:03:25] Davey Max says, I don't think Valia asked Theodosia to face dance and become her brother

[02:03:31] Griffin. She seemed just as surprised to see her brother as any of us. I think Theodosia saw the

[02:03:37] previous scene with Valia's uncle Evgeny play out and she transformed into Griffin of her own

[02:03:43] volition. Valia's real target for the face dancing is yet to be revealed. I do. I definitely agree.

[02:03:48] Her real target for the face dancing is yet to be revealed. This would be very interesting

[02:03:54] for the characterization of Theodosia if she did this voluntarily after saying it was her

[02:03:59] condition not to. So I hope they clarify it on that front because that would change things.

[02:04:05] It would. It would. Yeah. And of course, yeah. I mean, they've just so backloaded the episode

[02:04:09] six because we have to get this face dance. Right.

[02:04:12] Got to get this little gel.

[02:04:13] They've got to have some answer that answers everything at the same time.

[02:04:19] Yeah. And from what I remember of the trailer, there are definite scenes from episode six that

[02:04:25] we've not yet seen play out in the first five episodes.

[02:04:28] Unless they just cut those scenes.

[02:04:30] Yeah. No, they've been pretty faithful. Everything that I saw in the trailer, I have seen so far.

[02:04:35] And so I'm expecting these scenes to come up.

[02:04:38] Okay.

[02:04:39] Some more fighting and action sort of stuff.

[02:04:41] So I think this is going to be all no breaks.

[02:04:46] As they said in Better Off Dead, when you're skiing down a hill, go that way really fast.

[02:04:54] If somebody gets in your way, turn.

[02:04:57] All right.

[02:04:58] We just did a John Cusack little film festival for our 11 C subscriber podcast.

[02:05:04] All right. So the last thing, we've got two more feedbacks that are going to go into the spoiler section.

[02:05:10] We've got one final episode of the show.

[02:05:13] And like we said, we'll do a sort of a hot takes on Christmas Eve on the 24th.

[02:05:18] We'll try to get that out.

[02:05:19] I'll be traveling.

[02:05:21] So, and so we'll Alicia, but we'll do our best.

[02:05:25] We'll have our recording equipment with us, but we'll get that out as soon as we can.

[02:05:29] And then after that, about a week after that, we'll come back together.

[02:05:32] We'll do a bit of a recap.

[02:05:35] We'll collect all of your feedback.

[02:05:36] So make sure to send in your voicemails.

[02:05:39] Make sure to send in your emails to dune at the lorehounds.com.

[02:05:44] Always join the conversation on our Discord.

[02:05:46] Links for all of that stuff are in the show notes.

[02:05:48] There's a link tree.

[02:05:49] So go into that and get those links.

[02:05:53] And I'm sure people are going to have thoughts.

[02:05:55] I know y'all are going to have thoughts.

[02:05:57] And I'm sorry if you love it and we were too hard on it.

[02:06:00] I want people to love it.

[02:06:02] I want to love it.

[02:06:03] Yes.

[02:06:04] Yeah.

[02:06:04] We really do.

[02:06:05] Like we were so excited about this show and I was like, oh, super pumped up.

[02:06:11] Anyway, do you want to read us out and give a shout out to our Discord server boosters

[02:06:18] and our lore masters?

[02:06:19] I got some nice music for you here.

[02:06:20] Here we go.

[02:06:22] All right.

[02:06:23] Discord server boosters.

[02:06:24] Aaron Kaye.

[02:06:25] Tiller the Thriller.

[02:06:26] Dork the Ninjas.

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[02:06:29] Tina.

[02:06:30] The Stu.

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[02:06:31] Ghost of Hardition.

[02:06:32] And Radioactive Richard.

[02:06:34] And thank you to our listeners.

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[02:06:47] SC.

[02:06:48] Peter O.

[02:06:49] H.

[02:06:49] Bettina W.

[02:06:50] Adam S.

[02:06:50] Nancy M.

[02:06:51] Doove 71.

[02:06:52] Brian A.

[02:06:53] 63.

[02:06:54] Frederick H.

[02:06:55] Sarah L.

[02:06:55] Garrett C.

[02:06:56] Eric F.

[02:06:56] Matthew M.

[02:06:58] Sarah M.

[02:06:58] DJ Miwa.

[02:06:59] Andre V.

[02:07:00] Kwong Yu.

[02:07:00] Dead Eye Jedi Bob.

[02:07:01] Nathan T.

[02:07:02] Alex V.

[02:07:03] Aaron T.

[02:07:04] Sub Zero.

[02:07:05] Aaron K.

[02:07:05] Dally V.

[02:07:06] Mothership 61.

[02:07:08] Na Rose.

[02:07:09] Kathy W.

[02:07:10] Listu.

[02:07:11] Jeffrey V.

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[02:07:12] Neil F.

[02:07:13] Ben B.

[02:07:14] Scott F.

[02:07:14] Steven N.

[02:07:15] And always last.

[02:07:16] Adrian.

[02:07:19] I might keep this song.

[02:07:20] I like this one.

[02:07:23] Groove it.

[02:07:25] Yeah.

[02:07:25] Right on.

[02:07:26] All right.

[02:07:26] Thanks everyone.

[02:07:28] We will be right back with the deep dive book spoiler section.

[02:07:33] And if you don't stick around to that, we'll hear it.

[02:07:35] We'll catch you up on episode six.

[02:07:38] The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds.

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[02:07:53] Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion.

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[02:07:59] Thanks for listening.

[02:08:01] Okay.

[02:08:02] Here we are in the deep south with the faithful.

[02:08:05] What do you got?

[02:08:06] Thoughts?

[02:08:08] Well, should we go through the last two?

[02:08:10] Oh, yes.

[02:08:10] This is a feedback?

[02:08:11] That's right.

[02:08:11] It would be helpful to do that.

[02:08:12] Would you go back to that document?

[02:08:15] You want to start us off?

[02:08:16] Sure.

[02:08:16] So Brian8063 says,

[02:08:18] The virus is interesting.

[02:08:19] It traces back to the robot Erasmus during the machine wars, but there's not much opportunity

[02:08:24] to explore it.

[02:08:25] Yeah.

[02:08:26] One episode.

[02:08:27] I think David said it well when he said that maybe the showrunners read the lore, but do

[02:08:31] not fully understand it to incorporate it in interesting or meaningful ways.

[02:08:35] Hmm.

[02:08:36] Yeah.

[02:08:36] I mean, you guys are even kinder about that than I am.

[02:08:40] But yeah, you know how many episodes we've brought up Erasmus?

[02:08:44] Why has it?

[02:08:44] I mean, I guess there's no Anna Karina.

[02:08:46] There's no Erasmus.

[02:08:47] Fine, fine, fine.

[02:08:49] Maybe we're going to find out next week.

[02:08:51] He did give the memory core of Erasmus to Harrow, but why?

[02:08:54] But why?

[02:08:55] And why?

[02:08:56] I don't know.

[02:08:58] Explain that.

[02:08:59] That was so baffling when he like, and Harrow looked at it as if he knows what it is and

[02:09:04] was like covetous of it.

[02:09:06] So yeah, he totally was.

[02:09:08] It feels like if Harrow knows what it is, the audience should do.

[02:09:11] I don't know.

[02:09:12] Yeah.

[02:09:13] Yeah.

[02:09:13] It is a big chunk of lore.

[02:09:14] Yeah.

[02:09:14] Because they've done no setup for what that is.

[02:09:16] There's no foreshadowing.

[02:09:18] It's just like, hey, here's a new, and it glows blue.

[02:09:21] And we've seen the only thing that they've set up is blue light is related to AI technology.

[02:09:26] Right.

[02:09:27] Right.

[02:09:28] Oh, which makes me think about the blue eyes.

[02:09:32] Mm-hmm.

[02:09:33] Because the only thing they're coding the blue light as AI stuff.

[02:09:37] Yeah.

[02:09:38] So are the blue eyes omnious?

[02:09:40] Well, you know what makes me wonder about that is that there is a point, I've seen an

[02:09:47] image of the blue eyes where it almost looks like there is a mechanical structure around

[02:09:51] it in the sky.

[02:09:53] Mm-hmm.

[02:09:53] Like a faint suggestion of that.

[02:09:55] So maybe?

[02:09:57] Yeah.

[02:09:57] Maybe?

[02:09:57] Yeah.

[02:09:59] In my notes, where did I have here?

[02:10:04] Where are my notes here?

[02:10:05] Yes.

[02:10:06] Yeah.

[02:10:06] So they drop the whole question of the blue eyes, like who is this looking back at us?

[02:10:17] And we get this thing where I foresaw the reckoning that would drive the Imperium to tyranny.

[02:10:27] And for book readers, that totally codes as the God Emperor and the Golden Path.

[02:10:32] But the God Emperor pulls humanity back from tyranny.

[02:10:36] I mean, he uses tyranny, but pulls us back from the brink through tyranny, right?

[02:10:42] Because he's trying to retrain.

[02:10:43] He's trying to undo and retrain humanity from a bunch of bad habits, essentially, and put us

[02:10:50] back out on this edge of frontier thinking.

[02:10:53] And so that's confusing to me as well.

[02:10:57] But then she says, if he succeeds, who's he?

[02:11:01] Is that Paul?

[02:11:02] Is that the God Emperor?

[02:11:04] Is that Omnius?

[02:11:05] Like, who is he?

[02:11:06] I really don't understand what they're doing with all of this.

[02:11:09] And I don't wonder if the blue eyes, and like you said, if you saw mechanical stuff around

[02:11:16] the eyes, that's interesting.

[02:11:18] Yeah.

[02:11:19] Yeah.

[02:11:19] Yeah.

[02:11:22] Should we read?

[02:11:22] Yeah.

[02:11:23] Max S2.

[02:11:24] David Max S says, I just found an excerpt in Mentats of Dune that might explain the technology

[02:11:29] Desmond is using to boil enemies.

[02:11:33] Still don't know how he could have reached Kasia unless it was part of the genetically modified

[02:11:37] virus they mentioned.

[02:11:39] And so I wasn't sure exactly what he was referring to.

[02:11:42] So I went and did a search.

[02:11:43] And I think what he's referring to is something that they talk about scrambler pulses that have

[02:11:49] the ability to boil human brains, which is something that the former sorceresses could

[02:11:56] do to the Cymex, which are sort of like the cyborgs.

[02:11:59] Okay.

[02:12:01] Yeah.

[02:12:02] So it's got to be related somehow that there's something about bringing together that virus

[02:12:09] that Erasmus helped release with this ability to boil.

[02:12:15] I don't know.

[02:12:17] Yeah.

[02:12:17] We'll see.

[02:12:19] We'll see next episode.

[02:12:20] But anyway.

[02:12:21] Yeah.

[02:12:21] I totally would buy that theory in as much as we know that they're plucking, right?

[02:12:27] They're plucking these little details.

[02:12:28] So yeah, I wouldn't put it past them to do that.

[02:12:31] Right.

[02:12:32] So it's a good catch.

[02:12:33] We'll see if they tie together satisfactorily.

[02:12:35] David Max says, still don't know how he could have reached Kasia unless it was part of the

[02:12:40] genetically modified virus they mentioned.

[02:12:41] Yeah.

[02:12:42] That's what I'm wondering.

[02:12:43] Like, how do those two things fall, you know, tie together?

[02:12:46] I still want to believe it's a Tlai Laksu plot with, yeah, and the Tlai Laksu were involved

[02:12:52] in that whole scourge thing.

[02:12:54] So with various signs pointing to them, yeah, genetic virus, Desmond being left with quote

[02:13:00] unquote scavengers on Balut, the eyes, hatred of thinking machines, religious fanaticism,

[02:13:07] distrust slash hatred of Bene Gesserit, of the sisters, how his memory ends at his death.

[02:13:13] And it's hard to believe they can reveal all of this in one more hour plus episode, but

[02:13:19] I feel like they have to find a way to introduce the predecessors to the Bene Gesserit Laksu.

[02:13:24] And yeah, yeah.

[02:13:26] At this point, I don't know what they plan on, how they plan to bring it together, but

[02:13:32] it does seem like they have all these different corners of the lore in play.

[02:13:36] So are they going to tie together satisfyingly and how?

[02:13:39] Yeah.

[02:13:41] Let's see, David.

[02:13:43] Oh, is this me?

[02:13:44] Yeah.

[02:13:45] Oh, okay.

[02:13:45] I copied over from the other doc.

[02:13:47] Right.

[02:13:47] Yeah.

[02:13:48] Giving confusing signals.

[02:13:49] I see.

[02:13:49] I see.

[02:13:50] Now, yeah.

[02:13:51] Yeah.

[02:13:52] I really don't like how they're teasing the fans, how they're teasing us with lore drops,

[02:13:59] little lore nuggets, and then not using them.

[02:14:03] I don't know.

[02:14:05] If they set this up, if they set up the blue eyes as not Paul, as not the god emperor, as

[02:14:11] not, you know, Leto, the second, and it's something else, then it's going to be this giant misdirect,

[02:14:17] it's really, I'm afraid that I'm not going to enjoy how to do that.

[02:14:23] I don't want to pre-suppose myself, but that doesn't feel good.

[02:14:28] Like, they're playing mystery box tricksy games.

[02:14:32] Play mystery box to entertain us and set us up, but don't do these intentional misdirections

[02:14:38] or mix-ups just because you want to mix up the lore.

[02:14:42] I don't know, for Trixie.

[02:14:45] Yeah.

[02:14:45] Anyway.

[02:14:47] Any other thoughts?

[02:14:48] Any other thing about lore that we want to talk about?

[02:14:52] No.

[02:14:52] I mean, I think, yeah, I'm just kind of biding my time to see how the finale, what it connects

[02:15:00] and what it, you know, I don't want to harp too much on things until I see what actually

[02:15:05] they have planned for the entire season.

[02:15:07] Right.

[02:15:08] Right.

[02:15:09] Fair enough.

[02:15:10] Okay, well, I guess we will be talking on Episode 6 next week, so travel safe.

[02:15:17] You too.

[02:15:18] Thanks.

[02:15:19] Yeah.

[02:15:19] Hope that goes well.

[02:15:20] Fingers crossed.

[02:15:21] All right.

[02:15:21] Yeah.

[02:15:22] Okay.

[02:15:22] Bye.

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