House of the Dragon - S02E08 Feedback - The Queen Who Ever Was

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Welcome to the House of the Hounds. We're the Lorehounds, your guides through the dance of the dragons. I'm John

[00:00:25] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm David and this is our feedback episode for the season finale of HBO's

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Game of Thrones. What am I talking about? House of the Dragon season 2, The Queen That Ever Was

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it had some Game of Thrones in it. So I think you're I think you're

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_05]: So this is our feedback episode which you know you could still send stuff to us if you want we're not gonna read it

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, no, we'll read it, but we won't we read it on air

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_05]: HOTD at the Lorehounds calm where you will find

[00:00:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Someone on the other line who is it David?

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Nancy M2 kids two dogs and guess who is here with us this evening Nancy. How are you doing? I

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Am doing very well. I'm very nervous to be on the air with two people who I have listened to

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_00]: non-stop now for two years

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I am so thrilled. I can't even tell you that's great

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we couldn't wrap up the season without having you on at least for a few minutes

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Just to say hi to everyone and just for us to give it a chance to say thank you

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_06]: For all that you did as you know the when a big show is is really ticking over

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_06]: The feedback can get quite a lot and

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Given that if I get so many things wrong like I did

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Or I call Joel a monster

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_06]: the

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_06]: That we had like we had to break our feedback episode into two for that one the

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_06]: So so being able to drop in because you know both John and I have day jobs and families and all that kind of stuff

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_06]: And so then and to do multiple podcasts in a week and then be able to drop in

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Having a well organized well-formatted document that we can read to know that people who took the time to write in

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Actually got a response from us because I know another podcast you send an email

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't know what what's going on. It was nowhere. Yeah

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so it just made such a huge difference for the community

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_06]: And so we really just wanted to have you on for a for a quick moment to say thank you and just tell you how much your

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Efforts meant to us to John and I

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Specifically and I think I think you've been having a lot of fun with everybody

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been having so much fun. It should be illegal. I swear to God

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: I

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_00]: You know I've as I've said like I've listened to you since I first since you first started podcasting

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_00]: two years ago in the in the run up to Rings of Power and

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: You know listening to all that you do

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And not just from a podcasting perspective, but the value added that you provide our community with

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: What started off as the detectives notebook?

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_00]: and

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: That just exploded

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Into you know the one that rules them all that's coming up with the rings of power and

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Just everything that you do you're constantly on discord and communicating with the community

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking like how the hell do these guys fit 40 hours into 24 because it's just not feasible

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: They have jobs they have families and that's why I wrote the first time and said, you know, I'm retired

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I have some communication skills

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And if there's anything that I could do to save you five minutes a day, you know, let me know

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm not technical

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't really be able to help on you know the technical stuff that that some folks do on the discord

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But I do have communication skills. I wrote for you know, I wrote

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: communications for politicians in the Ontario government for

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: over 30 years and

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So I know how to format a document in terms of organizing information

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why I first came up with the idea of having themes

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Because so many podcasts like the hosts are just like pinging and ponging everywhere

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought well if we had some themes and the feedback that people were giving

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Fit together it would be better received and also

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: better to understand and

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Also that I

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Thought that

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know in terms of how for these documents are even formatted, you know

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Where you place punctuation where you hit return and start a new paragraph so that as you are visually reading a document

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm forcing you to take a breath. I'm forcing you to emphasize one line because I've

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Pulled it out. So these are just some skills and she really is the hand of the pod

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I was just thinking that like I think Nancy has learned to pull the levers of power here. Yes

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And it took a while to land on that name, but I love it

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're not gonna be able to get rid of me unless you physically forced me off the show

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So whatever you need help with

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I can be hand to the pod for rings of power. I can be hand to the pod for

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Kaleidoscope if you need

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_05]: For kaleidoscope season two if that happens, I doubt very much that's gonna happen

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever you need to help with I'm here for it

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And can I just make one comment about the show one comment about the show? I loved it. I

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely loved it were there problems with it. Yes

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: There were some pacing issues. There were some

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe it should have been 10 episodes and not eight

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_00]: But when you look at the acting when you look at the cinematography

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_00]: The visuals the costumes the sets and for God's sakes the dragons who were so real

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I challenge you

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00]: To find another show on TV

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_00]: That felt that way if there was a ping of disappointment

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_00]: It was just that the feeling I had when the closing credits came on in season one of that shot of

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Renea's face when she found out because like first you were looking to her from the back and then you see her face

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And just like all that emotion about

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_00]: My son has been killed. What happened? The war is starting and you've just like your fingernails were just, you know

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Crushing into the sofa. We missed that this year

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But I can't fault the season who knows what the politics were in the background

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'll be here season three

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Formatting the document for the two of you

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's all I have to say again, thank you for letting me be a volunteer and

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to the community because I have been so much. I've been having so much fun

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Interacting with you. I'm retired. I live in the middle of nowhere

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Because my you know husband wanted to move out near his family. So this brings me joy. That's all I can say

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_06]: You guys bring me joy. Thank you. Thank you. I think I think when John and I

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Got our start we came out of a community

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, right and so that has always been part of our identity as a podcast is it was sort of from community for

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_06]: community because we wanted to educate

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_06]: community in prep of rings of power and so

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Having a great moderator team having all of these affiliate podcasts and all of these different co-hosts and

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_06]: You know now, you know with you and of course Brian is working on the blog

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_06]: We haven't been talking blog much very much, but we need to do that

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_06]: And just the fact that we can empower our community and have people engage in this way

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Be it just regular feedback writers or regular email writers or what have you yeah

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_06]: That I think that's really part of what we're the power of many as opposed to the yeah

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_06]: One

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_06]: No, sorry

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: No, and that's why like the discord is really important and I always make sure to comb discord

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Because there are people who it gets so naughty in there. The hair just gets wrangled tangled up

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Does but if you I have an eight year old daughter, so we're always edit

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Brush my head edit our feedbackers

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So if they say he or she I will drop in the name or if they're referring to something

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's not obvious as you know, I will put it in brackets

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that because their comment is good, but maybe because it sounds like it's uh reporting or

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Um responding to something I will sometimes edit the beginning so that it sounds like a standalone

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Or oftentimes I will write the writers and say, you know what?

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Can I suggest this little edit and they'll say yes, please. Thank you. So um

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think that's a really important thing too because

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_06]: It takes time to take it takes a little bit of energy from your day

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah to sit down and to compose an email and then if you're worried about punctuation or spelling some people don't

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Whatever

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_06]: But that's a thing that's a barrier that can get in the way of people having self expression

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_06]: And so if they know that

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_06]: And then for you to do that because there's times in the past where we'll be reading an email

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_06]: And then we'll be like, oh wait, did they mean this? Is that a typo or or what is that?

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_06]: And so like you said your communication skills kick in and then you're like, okay

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_06]: These guys are going to be reading it. Yeah, so how does it sound red versus how is it written in the moment?

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Precisely. It's so important. It's so important because that's a

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: A trick that I learned writing for people who were reading. Yeah

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, whether in the in the provincial

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Government or whatever

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't want to take up any more of your time because I know that there are like 38 pages

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_06]: So what's next for the hand of the pod?

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we talked about it

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_06]: But do you want to tell people what you're going to bring us a power?

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And also, uh, you've asked me to help with the

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Um the show guide the show guide or not the show. That's our tracker the show tracker

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: The tracker yeah show guide is doing very well. It doesn't need any more help for me. Um for the show tracker

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and I am going to be uh asking everyone to help me

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm 60 and so I'm not really hip on things

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm gonna need help on where do I go looking for information to populate

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: the um

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: The coming attractions like where where do you find out all this stuff?

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Right because I'm not really on twitter or anything like that, but I'm willing to learn whatever

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Resources I'm gonna be teaching. Yeah, we're you and I are going to jump on and I'm gonna

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Run you through a bunch of stuff and and we'll work out our flow

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that'll be a big help. I had never used google docs

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_00]: So I was freaking the first time I think I sent it to you about seven times

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, how do I know that it actually got like there was no message that sent sent, you know, right, right?

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so yeah, I think there's like a way to see but yeah, it's a little buried. Yeah, so um have a good evening and

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Have hello to everyone out there. I really appreciate all the little messages you sent with your appreciation of what I'm doing

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: um

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_00]: The uh lower hounds community is very very important to me

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And uh, I'm so happy to be a part of it

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you john. Thank you david and thank you alisha too. Yes. Yes

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, awesome. Awesome. Thanks, nancy. I hope everyone

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Since nancy love or we will find you

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, bye

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, david what a lovely conversation with nancy

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_06]: We are so lucky

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_06]: With this community that has coalesced

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_06]: around this project that we were like, hey, I want to do some podcasty thing and like suddenly we have

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_06]: all these people having a great time and and uh, and really getting to hang out with cool people and talk about cool stuff

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_06]: So it makes me really happy. Yeah

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_05]: absolutely

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Nancy did

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Very to a note and said can we give a shout out to swampy?

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_05]: On her behalf because they were there were two nates last week swampy Nate in Japanese historian Nate that we I guess mixed up

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_05]: There are two Nates

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_05]: We are sorry for conflating the Nates, but you know what it's kind of on brand for this show. How many fucking aegons are there?

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_05]: They have a swampy Nate and a history Nate exactly exactly well hello welcome to all Nates Nates of all kind Nates are welcome

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_05]: So david

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_05]: This is you the last part you and I will do on this season

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna be back with alicia tomorrow right to talk about book spoilers

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_05]: But do you have any other parting thoughts on this season?

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I think

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I have gotten to a place where I'm just sort of at peace with

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_06]: The way this season ended up, you know, I've

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Read a little and seen you know people talking about a little bit this in there

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_06]: And I haven't dug deep into this issue

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_06]: and you know listening to some other podcasts and stuff and

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_06]: It just seems like

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_06]: it kind of got to be a mess there with hbo and the network and and the the parent company and

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the writer strike and a whole bunch of circumstances

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_06]: That brought it to an eight season conclusion where we have the armies on the march

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_06]: and other

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_06]: The information I've heard about the you know the books and what was kind of originally planned was there was going to be

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_06]: quite a banger of an

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Of an event or an activity something that was going to happen and that we had

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we were all kind of expecting that to fall into this season and it didn't it fell out

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_06]: right

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_06]: And you know what?

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Fine. I'm at peace with it. I don't have any

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't feel like I need to give any emotion to the fact that this is well outside of my control

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_06]: This is the season we got right right the actors were awesome

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_06]: The production teams were awesome. The writing was awesome. The CGI was awesome

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_06]: And I should I don't personally want to

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Let my expectations of what this

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_06]: What my expectations of of what the season quote unquote should have been in according to me

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Versus what we got and I get that that maybe this wasn't what they wanted

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_06]: What they originally wanted to do the writers and the creators of the show

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_06]: So I've really just come to a place of being at peace with this thing

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_06]: so and I think if anything, you know the frustration or the

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_06]: The sadness we felt or anything like that

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just really a marker of the fact that we had such a great time and we kind of care about this property

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_06]: And we want more. We wanted more. We wanted more. So yeah

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_04]: I want the world. I want the whole world

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, will you wonder? Yeah. Yeah, that's where I'm going with it. Um

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm certainly not fan bankrupt. I think it's funny because when I when I was

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Kind of pissed about the azoca finale like I really was like

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Fired up. I was like this is just a bad finale after and and I think it was because it was such a good season until the finale

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_05]: We got some some emails saying like what you know, I totally disagree this and that

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think we got a single email. Maybe I'm wrong because I haven't read them all because Nancy does it for us now

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but I don't think we got a single email being like you are dead wrong and it was an amazing season

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I think we're all kind of like

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Good not great, you know, and that's fine. Like that's that's good tv

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Remember when tv used to be like 90 bad?

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm now now it's like it's like usually pretty good

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And so

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to act like i'm fan bankrupt or i'm not coming back for season three. Of course i am

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I think we're gonna have a really good season three

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and i'm excited to hear what people have to say before I talk to alisha about what i'm excited for in season three

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Nice

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, cool. All right

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Would you like to do the pro the prelude to this leftover voicemail from week seven?

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, I can do that from uh, venessa

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_06]: So we got a voicemail from venessa w it kind of got lost in the churn

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Because nancy is so thorough she has it transcribed in here

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_06]: And uh, so we're just going to read the the voicemail rather than so venessa

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_06]: We hopefully will get you sorted out in the future and make sure that we get your voicemails into the show

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, this one is from last week and says hi guys. I just want to say hi

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_06]: This is venessa from san jose. Hey venessa

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_06]: And just to say how much I enjoy the podcast. It's one of the highlights of my week

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_06]: I really enjoy listening to your commentary

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_06]: I can't wait for rings of power to start and I really appreciate the ten dollar monthly pass

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_06]: It's kind of nice. I don't listen to every single show that's out there in the universe

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's nice to be able just to pick up the ones I do want to listen to so I really appreciate it great idea

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I just want to make clear. It's not a monthly pass. This is a one time

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Forever lifetime pass to right right. Yeah, right with the verbiage. It's even better venessa even a better value

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_06]: We're value generating machines as sure are once

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's great venessa. That's really good feedback for us because this is exactly what the season pass was designed for so

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Boom on target. Thank you and thank you to all the season pass holders

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_06]: You guys were great this year and we really appreciate you

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_06]: It really made a difference for for us for this year

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, it really it emphasized that it was worth covering the show exactly

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_06]: And we're excited for rings of power as well. We've already got people signed up for that

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_06]: So if you want to get on in on the rings of power season pass

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Where do they visit us at our website? You can still go in the link tree in the show notes

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_05]: That will if you go to the supercast page in the in the link tree

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_05]: That has the rings of power season pass on it. Perfect great

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_06]: John why don't you pick up venessa's email because she's got some

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Deeper lore on the hue parentage question. Sure just a quick comment about hues parentage

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_05]: You guys were saying there was no way he was sarah's son

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so so this is the whole correction that about 20 people wrote it to tell me yes

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_05]: It could have been sarah. Yes, uh, so the here are the other clues though

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_05]: This is the substantive part from venessa in the books

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It talks about how she was the wild child. She went off and ended up creating a brothel of her own in pentos or sos

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I can't remember which one well pentos is in sos. So it could be both

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_05]: During the great council when they were picking their new heir

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_05]: She had sent three of her sons over and one of the things they mentioned in the book

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Was that her one of her sons looked a lot like jaharis did as a youth

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe he's one of the reasons that vermuth or picked him because he looked a lot like jaharis

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And maybe even sounded like jaharis

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe the dragons because the blood magic is involved with them from old valeria. Maybe they can scent that dna line

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So he what?

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So he looks like he looks at you. He sees jaharis as a young man

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_05]: He kind of responds to hues authority and an authoritative voice

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Because maybe jaharis kind of did the same thing with him

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And then he can also smell that hey, he's got jaharis's dna

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay. You're my rider. I just wanted to say thanks so much for all the work you guys do keep it up

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Can't wait to see the next episode

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, thanks. Thanks venessa and I really appreciate that context on sarah

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I couldn't remember exactly the details which are why I hesitated to give them

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Last episode but you are correct. This very well could be sarah sun

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_06]: an interesting information about uh, the

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_06]: You know tying in with the rider

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Connection and the magic and all of that kind of stuff. I was thinking about this today too

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_06]: It was interesting when uh, oh, what was the name of the kingsguard that got crispied up?

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, yeah, stefan darklin. Thank you stefan darklin

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, he has he he establishes connection

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Right the modem, you know goes through it's you know

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Thing and they're like and then he gets connected to the dragon

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_06]: And he says, you know, my god. I've done it or whatever the thing is and the dragon's like, uh, no, you don't

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_06]: But he still established a connection

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, he's still the modem still like, you know that the whole right right

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_06]: You're you're old enough to you you must have connected by modem, right? Oh sure did. Yeah. Yeah

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I I heard that horrific sound

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_06]: So I think you know the the handshake happened and and then

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_06]: For whatever reason whether it was his arrogance or his like hey, yeah

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_06]: I I'm mastering this dragon and the dragon is like, you know master me like that

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_06]: And uh, you know, but but it's interesting though that there is some

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Some sort of

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_06]: You know ethereal some sort of something in the ether connection that that they uh, that gets established right

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Very nice

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, the next subject is uh pick up the piece. Will you you want to start with chris m? Sure

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Chris wrote in an email. Hi, Nancy and the team

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_06]: I've got a lot of little thoughts here regarding the finale feel free to merge with other feedback

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_06]: And again, that's one thing that Nancy does is she chops up your emails if you get them

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_06]: So we manage the end of the season says chris

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_06]: This was definitely a slow burner season, but I think some of the reactions might be a genre misunderstanding

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_06]: I feel like fans seem to set on this being an action adventure in the vein of game of thrones

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Because it's in the same in the same universe

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_06]: But since the first episode it's pretty explicitly leaned into being a character drama

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_06]: In line with that the season ended with a big character climax for allison and daemon

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Rather than a big showpiece

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's also why they're not feeling beholden to the game of thrones pacing formula

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_06]: That said this episode had pacing issues, but for me it was because we kept cutting to

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh rena's marathon every three scenes

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure we're gonna hear more from chris later on in the in the doc john

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any thoughts uh about that about the character drama versus the action?

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I I think that the problem was as I was saying the last recap

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: The character drama kept being like a bullet point instead of

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_05]: A developed scene and I didn't feel like we actually moved that far forward with characters in the finale

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I I heard this thing

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I I heard this and I was trying to think of it in the last

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh recap this framework that I don't remember where it's from if someone wants to write and let me know please

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Game changers versus cliff hangers, right?

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like we got set up with a lot of cliff hangers and not a single game changer

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you could argue that allison offering to open the gates is a game changer

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_05]: But I would say a game changer would be rinnear actually taking the city

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_05]: You know um and and I I think that

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_05]: This episode didn't execute on that

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately like we didn't really change the state of the war that much

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_05]: To anyway, that's that's my critique. That's my critique and I and again

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I said this on the episode too like we could an action a battle would have done it

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_05]: But also a lot of character stuff would have done it too

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_06]: We it just needs to move in some way. I wonder if it's not a question of

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Placing certain things if we had ended and here I know we're

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Engineering the show here, right? You know and some people whatever

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, but I'm gonna engineer with the show because I can

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_06]: What if we had

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Taken the scene with daemon

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_06]: rallying the troops

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_06]: kind of as the last

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_06]: dramatic tension moment

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_06]: And then cut to like all the armies marching and that sort of you know montage scene or something like that

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_06]: That for some reason that scene got washed out by some other stuff for me

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_06]: And maybe I'm misremembering all that went on

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_06]: But really with with this kind with character drama, right? You want

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Tension and release tension and release

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think we I got the feels when daemon took the knee when he took his knee

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. Yeah, that was great

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_06]: And then for some reason by the time that the episode was over and then the season was over

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Those feels got dissipated somehow in the well when you're running a 5k with rena, it's it's really hard to keep up the feels

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_06]: It's true. That's true

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, let's go to double t in melbourne australia who writes in with an email saying good morrow

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Good morrow

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Overall a good season

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_05]: But I do have to echo the deluge of concerns about the pacing and particularly the anticlimactic finale

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_05]: To me the way this season was akin to episode to season two of game of thrones getting to episode eight where stannis's fleet

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Ominously enters the blackwater bay the pyromancers are getting all their wildfire ready

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Lighting shots of the tyrell and lannister armies marching towards king's landing then the season ends

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Kindly wait two years for the battle of blackwater bay

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Imagine how we'd feel about that season of game of thrones without were the case. This is a fair criticism

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_05]: This is kind of what we're all saying, right?

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm to me this season has set the stage really well for a great season ahead where we finally get into the thick of the war

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Problem is I could cut and paste that sentence from the end of season one

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_05]: After last season, there's no way I'd believe that in season two as far as major battles of the dance

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, all we'd get is a 10 minute dragon and true battle as great as it was

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Or that we only see the death of one major character over the whole season on a more positive note

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_05]: My anticipation for each episode of this season was very high and it's still executed at a high level

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_05]: After seeing two whole seasons

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I'd place the show at the level of seasons five to seven of game of thrones

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Mostly good with some clear problems. Definitely not as good as seasons one through four

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_05]: But far better than season eight of game of thrones. I would agree with that placement. It's right there in the middle

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_05]: To me that is still damn good tv

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Yet everything we've seen from this franchise post season four of game of thrones just shows how hard it is to reach and maintain those lofty heights of quality

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll also add that in the long term when we are rewatching this series

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_05]: The problem of punting the final two episodes essentially to next season won't matter

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_05]: It will all flow seamlessly and I suspect will make for a brilliant epic story

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Who knows as we get closer to season three

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_05]: We may even be grateful that we have so much epic action to begin the season with rather than having already seen it

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for the great coverage and see you in middle earth

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_06]: This is a pretty good summary of all of that. Yeah. Yeah for sure. Thanks double t that that was a well

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Well reasoned argument. I think yeah

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that that puts words very well to my feeling about the season

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think you hit it right on the money with this is

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_05]: We're at a good not great level of game of thrones quality

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_06]: And

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_06]: That said, you know from from the plot and the story because also though

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_06]: In terms of acting in visuals and production design

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_06]: This is I I would put this on that those just those elements

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_06]: I would put that above anything that game of thrones house of the dragon has put out

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_06]: This season visually and uh,

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Has been a sumptuous feast. It's been really just sumptuous feast is who put torridge in your breakfast today

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_06]: With a little maple syrup and some butter and some lidsons. Who put it usually in your breakfast?

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, feeling strong. All right. All right. Give us some Karen

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Karen

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_06]: V says I came to the realization that my problem with the daemon storyline is really a problem with the pacing of the season

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Overall they spent so much time on it, but so little time on other things

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Of equal importance. I wish that they would have balanced things a bit better

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_06]: But in the end i'm glad that we had time with daemon and his demons

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was kind of a glide path a slow glide path right for

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_06]: You know his huffing off and then just a little bit every episode

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_06]: And it was really kind of his therapy right? It was him coming off of his

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Working through his ego trip right

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I agree with that and I I do think

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_05]: It was an effective arc that just got stretched so thin

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's kind of like bill bow says right, you know, it's like two it's like butter spread out on too much bread

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_06]: That's good. Yeah

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Where if it if we hadn't seen him for a couple of episodes and then we concentrated it a little bit thick

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Applied a bit thicker butter to the bread. It might have um eaten a little bit better exactly

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly you want to do abby too? Sure. Karen's was so short

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, our our dear friend abby says I feel

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Like if you're saying anything at all critical about the episode itself

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Not here to be sure you get lumped into the hater group that only wanted to watch battles and such

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Can't be further from the reality

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm fine with the episode taking time to flesh out characters

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Famously like episodes most people call fillers for this reason

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_06]: My gripe isn't with

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Not much happening

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_06]: It is with too much happening being yanked around too much

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_06]: And only maybe one plot line we followed throughout the darn mystery tour getting resolution

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_06]: I hear everyone making excuses that oh the budget. Oh the strikes

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's uh, not my or stroke the audience's problem, right? That's not our collective problem

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_06]: They embarked on this project. They had to know it would cost a lot

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_06]: They had a budget for an expensive silly team versus green or team black versus green promo

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_06]: The structure of the show what they uh kept in and what they cut or moved to a different season

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_06]: How it's edited so it doesn't give you the whiplash that can't really be

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Hand waved away with the above excuses

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I did like the season doesn't mean I have to suspend all critical thinking or be labeled one way or another for expressing feelings

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_06]: And now our weight begins. Are we all watchers on the wall now?

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, I just want to

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I I think

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I think that

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_05]: First of all the the general tenor of the discourse around the show

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_05]: There there are some real toxic places on reddit like I I have seen

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, yeah, I know. I know. Oh my god. Reddit has a toxic community

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but yeah, I've seen some conversations on reddit that like treat this like the worst thing they've ever seen

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So you get like keep it thrown season 8 and I think that's extreme

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I also think it's extreme to say this show is perfect or and the show is operating at like an extremely high level

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_05]: I do think there's room for nuance conversation

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm proud that our discord is a place where that generally happens

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Right people can work that out in a very collegiate atmosphere. Yeah, so I'm I don't worry

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm here who who will speak for the lukewarm watchers

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I will

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Fair enough

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I will and then I'll get reviews on uh on apple podcast say that I I don't like tv

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, I just wanted to say pause in actually uh

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Wrote in and and said something that that was nice. Let's end on a nice note for this section

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh on discord said really enjoyed this finale and I get the criticism of not having big action scenes

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_05]: But as far as I recall wasn't that the case in game of thrones as well

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_05]: An ultimate episodes had big battles and actions

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_05]: We saw some of that in house of the dragon season 2 episode 7 as well with the dragon stuff

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm satisfied at the end

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Daman scenes were the weakest part for me

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_05]: But I think it kind of paid off at the end with him swearing his loyal tater raniera

[00:32:46] [SPEAKER_05]: It would have been erupt if he had just done that after one or two episodes

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Raina scenes were a bit of a waste though

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_05]: That's like the universal like everyone was like why did they do this?

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and isn't she being highly irresponsible leaving raniera's younger children alone? Yeah. Yeah

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I guess it will pay off in season three

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I think once season three comes and we see all the great action people will soften their criticism of season two

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Which had which had a great setup finale

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_06]: It does it does a lot of a lot of cool stuff to look forward to I have a slight defense

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_06]: of rena

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. She's a teenager her frontal lobes aren't fully developed

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, her brain isn't isn't fully cooked and I can imagine I can remember many times being a teenager

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Going off and doing something that I thought was going to make a difference or something that I really wanted or

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_06]: trying to

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Correct the scales as I saw them, you know that balance the scales or what have you

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_06]: But I was you know, I didn't you don't you don't have a

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Your brain isn't cooked. You don't have some wisdom and some life experience

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's how you get the life experiences by going out and making these mistakes now

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_06]: jeopardizing the entire lineage of

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_06]: The ruling family of the kingdom

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, maybe we could come in for a little criticism for for there

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_06]: And and again, this is not anything to do about the setup of the plotting of it

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Just what is a teenager doing out running around? That's a really teenager thing to do right to not think about the secondary

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_06]: consequences of your actions but to lock in on one particular thing and think well

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_06]: If I can just grab this brass ring the world will be right

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_06]: I will have achieved a thing that I wanted to and uh, it'll be cool

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, I was a millennial teenager. So well when I was a teen we were ruining apple bees and napkins

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_05]: We were killing those industries. Okay

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Buying avocado toast, you know all those all those things that the boomers like to yell about

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, let's uh, let's go to the season finale or episode eight of ten. You want to start with susan

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure. Hi, lorhounds. I appreciate your initial take for the season two finale and agree that it missed the market bit

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, there were some good moments the show didn't read as

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_06]: As a finale lots of setup and no real resolution for most of the plot lines

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Frustrating that we have to leave we have to wait two more years for the war to begin

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_06]: One small observation in the final montage. Did you know notice that the northern graybeards were traveling on foot?

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_06]: That struck me as odd as you see the northman

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_06]: As all of the other armies were on horseback

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_06]: And the northerners had the longest distances to travel to get to the riverlands love the podcast

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for the great content susan in vermont. Hey susan

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_06]: My my fellow mover vermont er

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_06]: um, I think they're I think if we were to talk to a medievalist

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_06]: They would probably validate this a little bit with uh, the fact that horses

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_06]: And keeping a large amount of horses is a huge

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Logistical thing in terms of grazing and care and feeding

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_06]: and keeping a big stable of horses in the north versus in a temperate zone where you've got grasslands and all of that

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_06]: um, I think there's there's something that goes along there and then as well with the majority of

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_06]: The armies of a medieval, you know that medieval time period

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_06]: The vast majority of the soldiery would be on foot and it is cavalry units, which would be mount lord

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_06]: lords and you know

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Highborns and knights and stuff like that which is a very small percentage

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_06]: And then cavalry units, which are uh, maybe a double digit percentage but still very low

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Versus the the vast bulk. So I think what we saw was

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_06]: In those marching armies was just the very front of the army where the the cavalry and the lords were were at

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_06]: As opposed to the entire army and horses

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_05]: right

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Yeah, I I mean just looking at the north, you know, the whole reason that

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Craig and stark sent the graybeards is he's like well winter's coming and we need all the people here we can

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Right and so i'm thinking he probably needs all the horses he can too, right as well

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Probably needs all the food he can for the horses and so I could definitely see him being like look

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll give you

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Straight up graybeards. I never promised horses. Yeah. Yeah

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly. Yeah, so I think it tracks. I think it tracks all around both both strategically as well as

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Historically doesn't make it suck less for them

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Graybeards they're tough

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, uh, Vanessa very sorry, but we we cannot find your voicemail

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_06]: So let's let's uh, let's actually just make a PSA here public service announcement

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_06]: When by all means uh

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Communicating uh and stuff like that, but if you for us to get the voicemails they have to come to the hot d address

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, you send those to to us

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_06]: So that way we don't have to any

[00:37:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Technical misses on on where the voicemails go right

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_05]: But nancy transcribed your voicemail because she is an angel like that. Yeah. Yeah. All right

[00:37:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So this is what venessa had to say

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Hi guys, this is venessa from san jose. I just wanted to share some thoughts about the season two finale

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Just the season in general and how the show is going

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to try to make this quick. I've recorded this five times already because i'm trying to get this under two minutes

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, don't worry because now it's going to be whatever pace I've got

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_06]: But hopefully you'll be able to uh, send in voicemails for rings of power and we'll get all that worked out. Yeah. Yeah

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry venessa. All right. Uh, so first off totally agree with you on pacing

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_05]: That could have been far better this season

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I think the pacing of the first two seasons on the fact that there's such a gap between the seasons really affects viewership

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I love the universe. I'm a game of thrones fan

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to watch c shows no matter what even when there's two years between seasons

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_05]: But I really think it impacts the viewership

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I really think if they'd ended with 10 episodes this season, I think it would have been much better

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_05]: This really did not feel like a season finale

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to get into the book spoilers but given the twists that are involved with it in the books

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I think it would have been a much more natural stopping place to end it with blank

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just going to uh, and it redacted that a little bit. Yeah

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Especially with the things they established in this episode with the conversation between allicent and reniera

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And allicent saying i'm going to open up the gates. It'll be peaceful as bloodshed

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Think blank would have been a better stopping point, but they didn't go there. Why because they're stupid. All right

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Vanessa now now now settle down to carous

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, really venessa venessa is coming in to just ryan condoled aware

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_05]: And speaking of stupid if I had to see rena why died mud on her face desperate for water freezing in the cold

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_05]: That so turned me off that in this episode

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_05]: All I can think of if she is she finds sheepstealer

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And if dragons can truly size up their potential riders

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_05]: All I think of is he takes one look at her and goes girl if you're going to be going out on a dragon hunt

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe pack a lunch bring some water possibly a blanket

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_05]: As it is you're too stupid to live let alone be my rider

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_05]: So i'm just going to torch you it'll be a mercy killing

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, have a great week. You guys love the show love the season pass can't wait for rings of power

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Vanessa this was this made me laugh and and thank you for calling in sorry that we

[00:40:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Don't have your voicemail, but we'll make sure to get your voicemails in on rings of power

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Which is lotr at the lorhounds. That's right. Oh, that's right

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the you know the the dragon rider the sheep see there it was a foregone

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Conclusion that she was going to find sheepstealer right like they were setting it up. Oh, there's a mysterious dragon in the veil

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And you know we see her running off. It's like, okay, you're gonna she's gonna find it

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_06]: We get it did we need three or four scenes? Oh, you know whatever

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_06]: But I do like the fact that they're both kind of hard done by like sheepstealer is just trying to

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Be a cheap stealer

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Just trying to survive on the margins and so so is she so they're kind of kindred spirits in that way

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_06]: In this in the in the in the immediate circumstances that they're discovering each other. So

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_06]: You're you're muted

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Let's see what you're saying, david

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_06]: All right. Want to go to john sure uh our good friend co and co-host

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_06]: John says as uh as a standalone episode. This was effin dope

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_06]: As a season finale. This wasn't very dope at all in my opinion

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_06]: The sort of cliffhanger that I don't want to see didn't expect uh to see and definitely wasn't expecting fair enough

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, my feet are already starting to kick the rocks

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks y'all. Uh, how about Nate too? Sure every discussion I've heard read about has said that condo's plan was 10

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_06]: But to work within budget he was given they had to move things and stretch it out

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_06]: What I don't understand is that this is your flagship show that makes you billions

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_06]: The only thing that can't turn fans away is if you have asset like season 7 and 8 of game of thrones

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_06]: So the last thing you should do is penny pitch

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not all that bothered by only getting one battle for starters. What a battle it was

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Second we didn't get battles in game of thrones until season 5 remember tirion being knocked out

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_06]: So we completely missed the battle very good point indeed

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, exactly. You don't need to actually see the battle

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_05]: though

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, this is I'm gonna take one issue with us

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_05]: This is a literal show about a war between dragons, right?

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Like I do think we need to see the battles to some extent. We do minor battles, sure

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_05]: But there's there's a couple battles like the burning mill thing was really a great. Yeah, that's great. That's great. Perfect

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, but going forward we need battles

[00:42:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Like imagine if they were just like, yeah, rook's rest was crazy. Rain is rainies died and and yeah

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if they didn't show us uh the sharp point

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Burning because it would have been too much like the finale of game of thrones

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Where you have a you know blonde haired dragon rider, you know torched in the city

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe the you know, I think they just didn't want to pay for it

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And I didn't need to see it. You know what I mean? Like I that's fine. That's fine

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't need to see that that told me everything I needed to know is that he went on a tantrum hunt

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Fair enough

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh finishing up needs comment third speaking as a military historian battles are overrated

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_06]: They're a fraction of what actually happens in warfare

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I actually like that we're seeing armies have to take the time to travel and not just teleport across a continent

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_06]: This is a really good point. I mean there's so much in terms of logistics

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Setting up on the battlefield the intelligence screening maneuvers

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_06]: There's all kinds of stuff that goes on before an actual fight occurs

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_06]: And so much of the back end and the front end is so

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Important to

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_06]: What actually ends up happening in the battle and trying to control the circumstances before and after so

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Nate makes a really good point there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think uh

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_05]: What I was missing was a game changer like for example at the end of game of thrones season seven

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_05]: You have Daenerys sailing across Daenerys sea

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_05]: So we didn't need to see her first battle in westeros, but we did get in that episode was

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Cersei sipped a lot of wine. No, um it was Cersei

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Getting rid of a lot of her domestic enemies

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Right and that's a big game changer

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_05]: So you do need something to alter the political landscape

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I think right in a show like this and I guess the way it was daemon

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Bending the knee that really with his army. I think that really was supposed to be that and for somehow it didn't

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Translate that I think because we start the season with him loyal and we end the season with him loyal

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_05]: So it doesn't feel like we moved even if perhaps the forces grew a little bit. Mm-hmm

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Fair enough

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_06]: It because all season long they were playing up the daemon will he won't he you know, will he get you know

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the only army we have we do not have ground forces others than some graybeards that have a really long way to march

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_06]: And some veil, you know in the veils, I'll maybe the veil

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Is it always finicky about committing their forces, right? Yeah

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know and those are two smaller forces. You really need that riverlands host to

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_06]: To be able to affect anything on the continent. Yeah, jane aron is busy staring out the fucking moon door

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_05]: So you don't know what she's gonna do

[00:45:34] All right

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Should we move on

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Marilyn our favorite tolkin scholar says hello, lorehounds. That's Nancy for all your hard work herding feedback kittens

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, thank you, Nancy

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_05]: It sounds as though the final episodes were rather fumbled

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I hope that whatever the sticking points were will be smoothed out

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_05]: May offer my sympathies to those of you who will find it difficult to wait two years for the second season for the next season rather

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_05]: All the best marillon. Well, thanks marillon

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_06]: It's uh, we're writing in all the time. Yeah

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_06]: For now watching the show and writing in consistent exactly

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's been fun to get your takes because you're not really watching the show

[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you want to take cyrus close out the section

[00:46:17] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, cyrus closes out and he says I understand people's concerns about what could have been uh with the 10 episodes

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_06]: But I do think I prefer it this way. All right. So a a yay seyer

[00:46:30] [SPEAKER_06]: One we get more episodes for the characters to breathe between events

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Else it might feel like season eight of game and thrones episode every episode is some crazy event

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_06]: And a lot of the episodes of the season were crazy ended on crazy events, right? They always

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Bookended, uh, right not bookended, but they always landed the episode with like wow. That was a that was wild

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Second girm can write whatever he feels like but bringing it to screen is hard work budget is a real concern

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_06]: They could have cheaped out and given the dark episodes with cgi dragons, but they provided ones in full light

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_06]: That's expensive. I would not have them cut that for cost reasons

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I am bummed that hot d has gone for two years, but i'm not unhappy with their decisions well cyrus

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Good friend of the pod. Thank you so much for that that

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_06]: positive note to end on the this conversation of the whole season thing I I think that

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Many things can be true and I think you you well established the other side of this conversation

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Which is that this is also true. They did a lot of hard work. They made a great looking season

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_06]: And we're gonna start off with the banger and season three

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_05]: All I can say is as love you better start to save it up now

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_05]: because

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, now you've stocked up all of the big battles

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_05]: for three and four

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to hear like oh we had to push for the budget for season four because then it's not going to happen at all

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, right. Like I just think that you're going to need to figure this out guys

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_05]: All right

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Debating daemon and aamon character arcs Karen

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you send in a voicemail. Here we go

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Hi guys, so I wanted to make a couple comments on

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Aamond and daemon. I had to really think about that for a minute before saying those things

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_02]: um

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So I I called in a couple weeks ago about how I had hopes that aamond was going to

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Show some softness that he would not be this flat character

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's really disappointing to me where we finished the season with him

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He just is completely dark. He's gone full joffrey baratheon

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like the show is setting him up to be the big bad, which to me is crazy because

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_02]: People aren't the big bad in these shows

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Society the corruption of power the effects of war. That's what these stories are really about and

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Just not putting any nuance into the development of aamond

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Seems really short-sighted to me because I am so much less interested in him now than I was earlier

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_02]: conversely

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_02]: All of that time that was spent with daemon that I complained about the entire time

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Seems like it was time well spent in that he has been a super important character all the way through the first two seasons

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_02]: We've seen him struggle. We obviously have seen the way that his relationship with ranira impacts

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Everything that's going on in the war

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And I love that they put

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: The nuance into his character that they did

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_02]: To bring along that storyline. Um, the pacing is crazy and I'll probably leave a different note about that

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It's strange to me that so much more time and effort and care was put into

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_02]: The daemon storyline than into the aamond because my understanding and I have not read the books

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that it is actually the younger generation that becomes more important in this overall

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Story of this war. So aamond, I'm presumed is so important

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_02]: But they have sort of left his character development off especially the last couple episodes

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna say

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_05]: That

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Both need to be very developed both of those characters. I don't I don't think I would value aamond over daemon as far as

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Importance to this story. This is a wafo'd

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I can't I can't say anything

[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm just saying like they both need to be developed, but I agree with you that aamond is underdeveloped now

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I think that's the problem. He's a two-dimensional mustache twirling

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I would say one-dimensional, right? Yeah, even one-dimensional. He's just evil like he's he's a straight up evil

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And and it's a shame that they set it up a little bit

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_05]: With the luke stuff with the with the sitting with what's her name?

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah the with the madame. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if we I don't know if we ever got her name

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_06]: We get because he says I I regret it and and the whole thing about the small folk

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_05]: And then that completely just gets washed away. Yeah, imagine we had a show guy that had the name of this

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Madam I don't think she made her she did get named. I swear she got named really okay silvi

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Silvi is the name she's in the show guide

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah named character. Okay fair enough silvi

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Yep

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_06]: so

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, so yeah, it's it's uh,

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's hard right? It's it's hard why where they how to make these choices and and

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Be efficient and be efficient with character development. But yeah, they they certainly

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Got uh, amen

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Just straight down into a

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Not a complex character and what's odd is that

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_05]: We spent a decent amount of time with him this season. He just acted so cruelly during those periods

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_05]: That I can't read him as anything else but a cartoonish villain right

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_05]: anyway

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Complaints complaints complaints

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's move on to another voicemail from Michael aka dork of the ninjas. Here we go

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I have not listened to your guys this hot take yet, but I wanted to give my thoughts on the uh episode

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to speak in defense of the damon plotline

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_01]: um

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_01]: This has a lot of the same type of

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Feeling to me about what a lot of people said back in the day in game of thrones

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I built a seon plotline of him being tortured by ramsey

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_01]: That all this is just going on for too long. This is

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_01]: doing

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing but just meandering in the same plot points. So I don't need to keep seeing this

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_01]: He has the same poll markers, but the thing is though at the end of that season you believe

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Where those characters are transformed their character too

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm. I feel like we got a lot like if it weren't for this plotline kind of meandering and kind of slowly getting to its

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Point of what it was talking about

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Damon wouldn't have been able to

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_01]: believably say

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_01]: I need to follow you. I don't think he would have been receptive to that message

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_01]: very early on he had to be broken down

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we saw happen over the season

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was well done in a very very excited for the next season

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And looking forward to y'all's coverage. You all have a good one

[00:53:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks, Michael

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I I don't disagree in as much as we did need to see damon's evolution and he did need to go through the

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_06]: therapeutic process. Yeah

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_06]: And uh, it was just a question of

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_06]: of

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Of how quickly are we moving to that and how compressed is that so that we kind of feel it's a it's a it's a very tricky accordion game

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Too fast and we don't believe it too slow and we we all kind of are going like hey when is this gonna?

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_06]: You know resolve. Yeah, and uh, so it was a tough one

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I I would say

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad that people like this. I think that it was important. I still won't forgive them for making me watch game of

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Throne season 8

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_06]: I won't forgive it. I I really yeah just to re-engine to rewrite the show for the writers

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I would have done like maybe three flashes and we would have gotten it it would have been fine

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_05]: So and we can rewrite it all we want because this is our podcast. That's right

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, let's take a quick break when we get back. We will go to allicent

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_05]: We'll be right back with more house of the dragon

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Act with more house of the dragon

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Next up we've got another voicemail from Karen to talk about allicent returning the visit

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Here we go

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Hi again, this is Karen aka zero ducks from discord

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Um do a rewatch just now and I just noticed something that I think is so beautiful that I missed the first time around

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_03]: As allicent and raniera are having their conversation toward the end of the episode

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Allicent seems like she's pretty much laid bare

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_03]: And they've made their agreement

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Allicent has agreed to give up agon

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and just asks to be allowed to leave with helena and her granddaughter

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, she really quickly says to raniera come with me

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's almost like under her breath, but it made me think of their relationship

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_03]: in the beginning of season one and

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_03]: The depth of that friendship and the types of friendships that young women can have that are so intimate

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_03]: And so deep

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_03]: It's not romantic necessarily

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just this kinship that I think young women tend to have with one another

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_03]: especially when they're young but

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_03]: This little moment um brought that all back and it went by so quickly. I missed it

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_03]: The first time I watched but I love that they threw that in there just to round out allicent's character and to

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_03]: touch back on the importance of

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_03]: The relationship between these two women and the bigger story

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's a really great

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Moment and it was very subtle and it went by really quick and we all kind of dismissed it as like

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you know, of course raniera can't you know join you or whatever

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_06]: But it really does

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh touch on the relationship like you said and how important they were to each other at one point

[00:56:58] [SPEAKER_06]: And how at every turn and every twist they just couldn't help but hurt each other

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_06]: And those bruises were really deep because of the affection and the intimacy that they had for each other

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's the people closest to you who can hurt you, right? Yeah, you're not expecting it

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_06]: It's one thing if somebody's coming right at you and you're prepared for it and you're braced for it

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_06]: But when you get that sharp elbow from a side that you're not expecting and especially in a place

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_06]: That's vulnerable or you haven't shared with the world

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_06]: And uh, it can really hurt. I think there was a moment that really

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Moved me was when raniera

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Feels for allicent when allicent agrees, you know a son for a son to the whole son for a son equation

[00:57:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Because she's also feeling the loss of her son

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_06]: And she understands what that means for allicent to do that

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_06]: At the same time raniera is wearing the crown and she's not wrong

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_06]: In that for her legitimacy to be

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh accepted, you know for her to have legitimacy

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_06]: In the realm she has to put down this rebellion in the most brutal of ways, right

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Right

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, again, I I wasn't super sold on raniera asking her a son for a son

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Emotionally and then people pointed out and I think rightly so

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_05]: that

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Politically the she kind of has to put down the user per to to show up or claim

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know. I don't know. I think they could have laid the groundwork a little better

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_05]: But I do appreciate that

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_05]: They called us back to the season one relationship because yeah, I've said before they really did this is a show creation because

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Allicent is significantly older than raniera in the books

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_05]: And she essentially acts as a more traditional stepmother to runiera

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Um, this is this childhood friendship is something

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Entirely in the show and I think it's for the better

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I think when we

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Give a defense of the show and the things that we've liked

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_06]: I do like that this is a the the heart of this story on television

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Is these two women and their history going back to their childhood? And

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_06]: If that's a show creation

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Bravo, oh right like standing ovation to the writers and condol and and uh

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_06]: All that whatever gurm is putting to the to this do

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_06]: But that has been a really vital and well developed part of this storyline

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_06]: And like the when they first met when when raniera went to king's landing

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_06]: My heart was pounding. I was on the edge of my seat the stakes were high

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_05]: It was a really funny because that was one of the most criticized scenes in the whole show

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_06]: That's hilarious. Yeah, it was amazing to me. Yeah, it had me

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Just I was like worried for dark Lynn who was waiting outside. He's going like, oh my god, you know, this is this is nuts

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, right and then I love them showing back up still wearing their robes and everybody at small council

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah foot where that right right? Yeah, that was that was a good comedy. Um

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I do want to say I don't know if we are currently at the point of

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Over milking the relationship though

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Because I think this this story may be done

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_05]: This story between the two of them

[01:00:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't disagree. Yeah, maybe kind of coming to a close and I wonder if

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_05]: the shows

[01:00:34] [SPEAKER_05]: write full pride in what it created

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_05]: via the season one relationship and

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_05]: And you know enjoying the chemistry between the two actors playing alice into raniera

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if it'll be a weakness if they have trouble letting go of that in favor of the story, right?

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_05]: We don't want we don't want to feel like the writers are pushing characters

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_05]: To be to the forefront of the story. We want to feel like the story is telling itself

[01:00:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Fair enough. Yep. I I agree they've they've and they wound up this clockwork of these multiple armies all descending on at the same time and that

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Tension is gonna that spring tension is going to release and it's getting messy the proverbial shit's gonna hit the fan

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_06]: and

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_06]: uh, how well will they be able to

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Should tell the

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Tell the the story because we can't keep harkening back to their childhood

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_06]: They have they are women now and they are responsible for how things have they they play a part in this larger

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_06]: war that's happening

[01:01:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I think jason amond are really underdeveloped now

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_05]: And so are bella and reyna really

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Like we just didn't really get to know the the younger generation that much and I think that's a weakness of the show

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, right uh, chris m

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_05]: says

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Are you want to read it?

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh hard to disagree on the closing alicin or raniera scene and I'll break down why she's

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Not sursey who will burn the realm to save her kids

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Right. Yeah, and sursey was like my kids above all else right so she she really was that

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh continuing she says as much in the first season even if we don't believe her then

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_06]: But if anything her arc is trying to put what she thinks is right over the flesh and blood people in her life

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Aegon is functionally dead in her mind and she thinks that amond is a monster

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Also, alicin didn't want to give up a gone at first. It's only when ranear demands it

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_06]: And even then she almost broke down

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_06]: With ranear as seven dragons alicin is aware that they're all dead anyway

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Helena is the only decent child left in king's landing

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_06]: So she's trying to bargain for life for Helena and herself

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Because she knows that ranear doesn't want to light up cities if she doesn't have to

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_06]: If anything they took the sophie's choice element that was supposed to be blood and cheese

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_06]: And moved it here with more effect because we know these characters now

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's more of a betrayal

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_06]: thoughts

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm gonna disagree with the

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_05]: characterization of ranear trying to do what's right over

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you know the flesh and blood. I think actually

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_05]: It it flows much more with

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Sort of the effects of patriarchy. I make oh my god. I'm about to go here you go

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_05]: The effects of patriarchy on women in a patriarchal society. Here we go. Here we go. I think allicin

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Like many others

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Uses scripts provided by patriarchy

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_05]: To protect herself against loss to protect herself against the feeling of loss. She fears

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Losing her children and therefore she is

[01:03:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Going to do what she needs to do to put the men in power who she thinks will protect them. She fears

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: you know being

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_05]: as

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_05]: seen as

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Hermit's qus, so she is

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Scandalized by ranear and she does everything her father asks her to and she's obedient as a wife

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Other than stabbing her daughter in law

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Stab her stepdaughter. Um, you know, I I do think that this you can chalk a lot of this up to the fear of losing her children

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Now

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I think you could make the case that she

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Sees agon is already dead. So I grew with you there

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_05]: She sees agon has already lost and aamons. She sees as a monster

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_05]: So she says, okay, I fear losing helena

[01:04:36] [SPEAKER_05]: That's the last child that I wanted to protect

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_05]: And I and I think she could be acting out of that now

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think that I don't think she necessarily goes what's quote unquote right

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I think she goes on what's the norm

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_06]: You know doesn't she say as much to ranear in that scene? Yeah, she says I follow

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I follow what these men said I just did what I was told basically

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_06]: And not necessarily by an intern and I internalized that right and acted out on that right

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Little introspective from allison not a thing but uh, yeah

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_05]: But so I basically I agree with some of what you say chris and I disagree with some of the internal workings of allison

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we need to um seek out a

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_06]: fantasy fan

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_06]: House of the dragon fan

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Somebody who is an academic and uh, who studies and understands feminism at that at that sort of

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_06]: I have thoughts on people. Yeah, and you should interview them and have a discussion about that

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay about house of the dragon season two from a feminist perspective because what's more feminist than game of thrones?

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_06]: That's right. Well, this is house of the dragon though not game of thrones

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_05]: So I mean, what's the what's the uh intro title right?

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Doesn't it say game of thrones house of the dragon when you look at the title card does it? Yeah, it does

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_06]: In the show art. I don't think I've noticed. Yeah

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, anyway

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that would be an interesting conversation. All right dj miwa

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Alice since offered to ranear was so painfully short-sighted ranear

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Rightfully called her out on the fact that she just wanted to get out clean. She did

[01:06:14] [SPEAKER_06]: She was trying to get out with this minimum a minimal amount of uh of skin

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Scraped off. I thought the ending montage perfectly showed that whatever offer alice had made

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_06]: There are too many things in motion for anyone to get out cleanly

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Even if ranear shows up at king's landing as planned eggums in the wind

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Alice will simply have to wrestle with the events. She has set in motion

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I agree with this take

[01:06:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_06]: You know as I was saying before the the they've the clockwork is all wound up and there's no way to stop what's happening now

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_06]: And you can try to duck and avoid but then I think ranear does the right thing and pins her to it and just says

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_06]: No, there is a cost for this now right. There's no molligan here

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_06]: And it sucks that we were childhood friends and we're in now and our trajectories have landed us in this

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_06]: point

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_06]: But I am the queen and I am trying to stop the

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm trying to get through this with the least amount of bloodshed. There's going to be bloodshed how much

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Depends on how quickly we can end this thing, but it's going to require blood to be spilled

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Right when allison wants to go in here and say

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_05]: May I just say my bad?

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_05]: A huge tiny mistake. I made a huge tiny mistake. That's that's my favorite

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_06]: It is that's your favorite summer yeah, thanks dj miwa. Good good job from you

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Cat j says I'd like to push back a little bit about your assertion that it was completely

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Iald of character for allison to agree to bring near a killing agon

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I think we can assume that allison has not seen the steps to recovery that agon has made

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_05]: As this has been kept secret by laris and the maester

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Allison may have convinced herself that agon has no quality of life and that a quick clean death would be preferable to him

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

[01:08:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Now one thing i'll say is here's here's a new thing. Mm-hmm

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Agon has no living son

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_05]: He also has lost the ability to reproduce correct therefore the next air

[01:08:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Is a man

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_05]: In this regime he cannot you cannot go with the girl because then you undermine his whole point

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_06]: The whole point in the beginning with yeah

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. Very good point and that's why laris I think that adds even more to what laris was saying

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Is like you're a dead man unless you get out of here, right?

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Because you don't have any legitimacy anymore it bursts like a sausage your legitimacy burst like a sausage my god

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_06]: I know it's terrifying

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_06]: That this idea of

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_06]: agon's quality of life

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_06]: my god

[01:08:56] [SPEAKER_06]: This guy has survived falling from

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_06]: How big a height burned?

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_06]: armor fused to his skin

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_06]: in with the medical

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_06]: technology and and

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_06]: The tools and medicine that they have at that time that is an incredible constitution

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Like he really made his savings throw for for you know burn

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, yeah

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe should have trashed that character

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Reroll baby

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Zero ducks shall you read it?

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I always take blue on allison as a symbol of her youth or innocence

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_06]: In the scene with the light blue and the silvery purple on raniera. It really stood out to me

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_06]: There's an accord and a softening between them in this conversation

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I think the clothes are purposely colored in style that way to emphasize it

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Also, raniera has been wearing more military style garb of late

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_06]: But in her night clothes she is able to be vulnerable

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Brilliant costuming

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm. I like that. I like that

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, especially the allison stuff. I think that they did a really good job bringing back the blue

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I think this is where the show is operating on

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_06]: That next level because they do have some budget and they do have excellent people

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Who really want to be working on the show and so they can bring in those

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_06]: secondary and tertiary levels of storytelling that really do make it a

[01:10:30] [SPEAKER_06]: That elevate the storytelling overall and gives us

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_06]: As podcasters and fandom more to dig into right, you know, right it makes it more fun to watch

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_05]: right

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Marine D closed out the section says the circumstances for the raniera allison meetings seemed unbelievable and poorly written to me

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I get it as a poetic book end to their previous meeting

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_05]: But this meeting made less sense. How could allison just walk into the castle when they are at war?

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Just because her guard laid down his arms and not be restrained especially after an attempt on raniera's life

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And even in the scene earlier

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, raniera was disguised

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_05]: There were several guards around and the sun for a sun reference at this stage

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_05]: After everything that has happened felt like an artificial callback

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I was thinking ha which suns now jace for agon on the throne

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, yeah

[01:11:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think I think they're saying I think she's saying well

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_05]: My son luke died so you have to get rid of agon right which is an unfortunate way to

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Create the equation there because it's really i'm the queen

[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_06]: You're finally recognizing that I am the rightful heir that this whole thing was it was a big mess

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_06]: And now you see daisies. Yeah

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And now your sons are prosecuting an unjust

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Rebellion and so off with their heads is what it has to be. But unfortunately it's been

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Unfortunately because of the history of these two women that it it then gets put into this equation of sun for a sun

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Which sucks for them

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Right as as these two

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_06]: People that have such a deep and intimate connection

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that was the line that rubbed me the wrong way

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Was it that's the sun for a something really felt very like

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: capricious

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_05]: And I I think if she would have said something like I can't have the the pretender

[01:12:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Be alive and keep rule piece and rule peacefully. I think that's something that

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Would have felt more natural. All right, our next section girm

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_06]: geography

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Belisa sends an email. Hey, lorhounds. I don't listen. You got a I think she wrote in specifically saying how to pronounce it

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for the correction and the update be lisa. Hey be lisa

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, lorhounds

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_06]: I've got lots and lots of thoughts after watching season two episode eight

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_06]: But I'll concentrate on a couple of geographic topics

[01:12:54] [SPEAKER_06]: but I want to preface that by um saying i'm pretty familiar with the map of westeros and essos excellent

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_06]: We we needed geography maester

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Laris said that he was going to take agon to essos

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_06]: But they're in a wagon on land not on a boat. So where are they heading king's landing was in the background

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_06]: But they didn't seem to be heading towards any place that would have boats

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_06]: And they were in with a bunch of cages with livestock or chickens question mark

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Certainly those weren't being shipped overseas question mark. That's a good point because

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Any food stuff should not be leaving king's landing, right? I don't think the hungry people of king's landing would appreciate that

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Right they continue. I was very confused about where tyland was meeting with the triarchy folks

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_06]: I did a bit of research and it seems that the triarchy is an allowance of the three free cities in essos

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_06]: But that after the war in season one, they allied with the four the folks in dorne

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that right? So are they meeting in dorne somewhere or are they in essos either way?

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_06]: I can't see how they could set sail to reach the gullet on the morrow

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_06]: What do you think?

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_05]: john thoughts, uh, I believe they are in essos there

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Because dorne doesn't look very

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I don't think that's dorne. Okay. How even though the world is a drier climate

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, take two cross the narrow sea. Let's just look it up. Let's see if this is something that

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, let's see a non-stop. Oh, it's flight. It's flight somebody say

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Sail across the narrow sea. We're looking at airspeed velocity of an unladen spot. Sorry

[01:14:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what? I'm looking at a map here list tyrosh in mir the disputed lands

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so those are all in in uh

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Essos that's really close. I mean the stepstones are the bridge to dorne right, right?

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_06]: It's it's the narrow sea right. It's it's pretty narrow. So

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_05]: If you're looking at

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_05]: What george is trying to do here essentially west roses england and

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the and s houses you're up. Yeah, so it's it's uh, it is pretty close. Yeah

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_06]: All right continuing

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I guess a trip on dragonback from dragonstone to harrowing hall and back is just a quick ride, huh?

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_06]: That far. It's actually pretty quick. Yeah

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_06]: I would I would say just by looking at one of the maps that I'm looking at

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_06]: But it was a very jet-packed episode in in that regard. So I don't just yeah

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Um continuing

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_06]: I was frustrated by rineer scenes that started in episode seven wondering why they couldn't have just shown that all at once

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_06]: The only thing I can conclude is that to show how much time passed rineer definitely missed the boat carrying her little brothers to pentos

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh reyna

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely missed the boat carrying her little brothers to pentos. I assume

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Darn I was hoping she'd find the dragon and then go to pentos and find

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Leonor but how long that would take for a boat to travel from dragonstone to pentos

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm interested in your thoughts and clarification on any of these points. Thanks for all your hard work

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm really enjoying the lore house content and I'm planning to sign up the rings of power season pass also

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Be lissa. Thank you so very much

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_06]: um, yeah, I think

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_06]: We have to think that the narrow c is much narrower than than we might think

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_06]: I think you're right. I think it's a really good thought think of the english channel between

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_06]: England and the continent

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and also

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think Leonor is alive and this is not a wafo thing

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_05]: This is just I think in the show they have telegraph that he probably died because

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Seasmoak was available. Okay

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_05]: We don't know of any dragons having two riders at a time

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Right based on what the show has told us so far

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and he did and Seasmoak did not take a second rider until recently when Seasmoak suddenly became restless. Okay

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Fair enough

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think and I think where they were meeting with the triarchy like a really established that it was a you know

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_06]: There's different flora and fauna there the palm trees the

[01:17:03] [SPEAKER_06]: The cgi monkey or whether whether it was real or not

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and i'm pretty sure corollus would have noticed if they crossed the narrow c before this

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm. Yeah even for him to get across the narrow c that was a trick though to to run the blockade and how did he get there?

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_06]: I think that's more of a question is

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_06]: How did where did he get out from?

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_06]: He didn't come out of blackwater bay. So did

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_06]: He go out and around somewhere to storms in to ships breakers bay or something like that

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know. Yeah, it's a I know. I remember there being a way to do it from a port in the north too

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I can't recall exactly got it

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, do you want to talk about the triarchy in chris m's email? Yeah

[01:17:48] [SPEAKER_05]: chris m says so

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Sharco loha is a merger of two captains in the book one of whom is coded as trans or genderqueer

[01:17:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I think casting abigail thorn as well as giving us book canon blue hair cell swords

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Was an inspired nod that they're moving closer to the book than audiences might expect

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Mmm. I like it. Okay

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Women are from venus and men are from mars is the next section that

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Is the next for us? All right, and karen v

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, karen v is up rewatching

[01:18:20] [SPEAKER_06]: I've noticed a through line that is interesting multiple male characters have

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Reli vatori moments in which they peel off the veil of naivete

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_06]: And come to a more clear understanding of the war their standing and a human nature

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_06]: By contrast a female characters display innate understanding of these things and serve as m series and teachers

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_06]: This is an ancient theme that can be traced all the way back to the character of

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Shamut in the epic of gilgamesh from ancient sumeria

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I have gilgamesh on my shelf and I read it in college and I really was moved by it

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I might have to take it down and

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_06]: And uh

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Skim through it again because it is it's a really might have to mesh your gills

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_06]: The it's an urr tail. It's a tail of urdom

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh or something. I don't know what I'm going with that anyway moving on

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_06]: This episode was a shit show in many ways, but a bright light

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Is the bright light is that it again reinforces the theme that women are smarter braver wiser than men

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_06]: In this universe if only they were listened to for example jace still reading from the power shift and insecurity in his place

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Seems to finally grasp his advantage when baila scoffs at his ignorance

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Crispy finally figuring out that he's made a terrible mistake and none of it matters at all wax is philosophical

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Granted he comes to this alone, but allison is his is

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_06]: On his mind boob cloth as evidence. He's a little sniffy

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Daemon alice rivers and helena as his guides to help him effing finally

[01:19:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Internalizes his role in the story and bends the knee to his wife

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Who was wise after all in waiting for him to wake up from his daydreams?

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_06]: amon

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_06]: arrogant scheming

[01:20:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Chased by helena's refusal to fight in her knowledge of his burning of agon

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_06]: It wouldn't change anything the women in this world are made of iron and meant to sit the iron throne

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Helena is the best character in the whole show

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_06]: hands down

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Nice email karen. I love it. I like it. I like it. Thank you. Thank you karen for

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Highlighting at least some of the good stuff this show is doing and I do I do think this show is tapping into some truths about

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_05]: patriarchal norms and how they affect women

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_06]: I think I think that is resonating even centering the story on the relationship of of allicent and raniere as we talked about before

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_06]: That is a

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_06]: A big change and I wonder

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if we ran a bechtel test on their conversations. How much of it would you know come out

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what this guy I forget what the scale is on that

[01:21:04] [SPEAKER_06]: But you know the idea that these two but a lot of their arguments do come around back to men

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_06]: So I have to think about that a little bit more

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_06]: But anyway centering the relation the the whole pinwheel of this story

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_06]: It resolves around two women not around two men. All right

[01:21:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Team alliances is next with Christina j saying hi anansi

[01:21:22] [SPEAKER_05]: You've been amazing at arranging arranging the feedback

[01:21:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I love how you keep the topics aligned very nice and unique touch a couple weeks ago

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I may have been classified as a green

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Made me laugh as I am vehemently against picking a side since there has never been a debate over who you serve thrown

[01:21:41] [SPEAKER_05]: His name is auto high tower and it was decades in the making

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_05]: There is no leg to stand on with the greens. Raniera is the rightful queen. I feel the team alliance

[01:21:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Question should have been proposed after season three. There would be a more balanced attempt at a choice between the sides

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Now that blank

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Wafo wafo wafo wafo

[01:22:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, Christina. Uh, don't worry. We won't label you a green

[01:22:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think the whole marketing thing was pretty silly, right? And that's you know, the marketing department is a separate department, right?

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's it's it's not the job of the other writers to do that

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_06]: so just like headline writers are a different unit than the uh people who write articles and

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_06]: for journalism, so

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I think I see what's happening here is that Nancy has arranged things into

[01:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Topics where she writes team green slash Allison. That doesn't necessarily mean you are team green

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_05]: That means that we are talking about a character on team green

[01:22:42] [SPEAKER_05]: So Christina, I'll just continue because this is the same person

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_05]: uh, Christina continued on the the

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Topic of Allison my favorite part of the finale was Allison going to Raniera

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Not as an opponent as she never saw her as one but as a friend upon her journey of self-reflection

[01:22:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Notice this happens when Otto is no longer poisoning her here with duty

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Good points. Really good point that control is off and yeah

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_05]: She's able to breathe and has come to terms with her flawed choices her own flawed choices

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad she pointed out Viserys held Raniera's claim out of guilt because he emotionally ignored his own children with

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Allison particularly Aegon whom in my opinion he resented as he was what cost him

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_05]: his

[01:23:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Aima a son

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I see what you're saying like the pursuit of a son

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_05]: cost him Aima

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I wondered when Allison's nail biting would re-enter the storyline and to see it as she dawns blue again

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Rediscovering the girl slash woman she is

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_05]: Versus the armor she cloaked herself in was chef's kiss

[01:23:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Her growth and the red sewing were my favorite bits in the season

[01:23:53] [SPEAKER_06]: nice

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that was a another nice little detail was the the thumb biting thing which brought it back to their childhood relationship

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_05]: right

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Want to take cat cat says in your discussion about the conversation between Allison and Raniera

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_06]: You mentioned that there was not an explanation as to why Allison decided to come back from her little retreat in the woods

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_06]: And that her change of heart seemed to be out of character

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_06]: When she was lying in the pool there was a bird flying overhead and Allison appeared to be watching this bird fly

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_06]: And that seemed to be the catalyst for her jumping into action

[01:24:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if there's a link between that bird and Helena as it seemed that she came back to try and protect Helena and convince

[01:24:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Her to leave king's landing

[01:24:36] [SPEAKER_06]: It could be just that the bird reminded her of Helena and that it represented the idea of freedom

[01:24:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Or there could be more to it. We saw Alice rivers and her connection to the barn owl

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_06]: And now we know that there's possibility of something going on between Helena and Alice

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_06]: It did make me wonder about the possibility of Helena working

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_06]: This could also be how Helena saw Eamond burn a gone

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, so um just really quickly before we talk about the uh, Helena being plugged into the uh into the internet

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_06]: the weird tree

[01:25:12] [SPEAKER_06]: um, yeah modem

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_06]: uh is that

[01:25:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Whatever triggered

[01:25:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Allison when she was floating

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_06]: for me

[01:25:23] [SPEAKER_06]: there was just

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_06]: some

[01:25:26] [SPEAKER_06]: slightly more causal, you know element that was visible like i'm i feel like i'm grasping to make up some kind of headcan and to explain it

[01:25:34] [SPEAKER_06]: And I and I totally and on board with your thought here cat j about what was it triggered

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_06]: It just wasn't fully apparent for me

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and so that was I think my my point of like, um, like why I just needed a wee bit more

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Fair enough fair enough

[01:25:52] [SPEAKER_06]: What do you think about the uh, Helena being tapped in?

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think she's a warg. Okay, but

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not i'm not that wouldn't be like mad if it happened

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think she's a warg at this point

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_06]: So they're really playing it like it's kind of like the world between worlds here from the star wars universe of like

[01:26:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Because she didn't warg. She was just there

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_06]: She can just see

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, um, so I don't know how that

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Works for her in this universe because we haven't seen that kind of level of seeing or unless you're actually in the tree

[01:26:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that right? Am I?

[01:26:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Well brand does eventually get the ability to just join

[01:26:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Scenes from from his chair like he he does not need to be in the tree by the end

[01:26:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Remember he's he sits next to the fire and he's like, oh now I have to go see john b. Bourne

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_06]: His eyes retract and right, right. Okay, so

[01:26:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting, well, we'll see where they go with it in season three right

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh on amond we have chris m saying

[01:26:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I think we might be suffering here from the fact that the actor though brilliant looks way older than the character is

[01:27:04] [SPEAKER_05]: So we're expecting more logical reactions

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_05]: He's supposed to be a bookish know-it-all 17 or 18 year old with little real world experience

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I think this comes this really comes across in his disconnect from how people

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Actually respond to his actions and his disregard to of the women and small folk in his life

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Who aren't really represented in the histories and such he reads

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Good point. Yeah, I take it

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And then cat also says

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I have a query

[01:27:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I'd like your thoughts on

[01:27:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I wonder why amon and vagar didn't go and try to destroy the blockade

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_05]: This was suggested in the first episode of the season when agon sat the iron throne

[01:27:45] [SPEAKER_05]: He stated that he was going to send vagar to deal with the blockade

[01:27:48] [SPEAKER_05]: So i'm wondering why that didn't happen. Thanks for your excellent cover this season

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_05]: I really enjoyed it, but I do wish we'd had 10 episodes

[01:27:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, so so say we all

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I would just say two things vagar is supposed to stay near king's landing

[01:28:03] [SPEAKER_05]: All the places we've seen vagar attack so far have been near king's landing

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_05]: It's only now that he's going to the riverlands right and the second thing is

[01:28:12] [SPEAKER_05]: You would think that coreless is prepared with some scorpions, right?

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_06]: And I would say that if you

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Move vagar out of pocket then king's landing is vulnerable

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_06]: To dragon attack by even if they're smaller dragons

[01:28:29] [SPEAKER_06]: So the deterrent

[01:28:31] [SPEAKER_06]: I think they said this in one of the council meetings that vagar is the deterrent to protect

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_05]: King's right, right?

[01:28:38] [SPEAKER_05]: That's why people aren't attacking king's landing

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_05]: But now that you have this many dragons like you're going to leave that undefended. I guess he is now

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, which um

[01:28:47] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, it's they're making a risk. They're making a calculated risk

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess all right. I'm going to close out this section then I'll I'll pass it to you for the next two. Okay, uh, alisha

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Our our fellow lorhound says I've been complaining about this throughout the back half of the season

[01:29:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't find a man a fun villain anymore. He used to be interesting to me

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_05]: But now the way he's ridden is one of my biggest gripes of the season much more than harron hall

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_06]: I think you guys can talk about it on your lor cast. Yeah. Yeah, we'll save that for the pot

[01:29:16] [SPEAKER_06]: That sounds good. All right. You want to take agon? Yeah

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Marilyn says

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_06]: agon alive however crippled will always be a focal point for rebellion

[01:29:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Allison may believe agon is so compromised

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_06]: And his life so horrible at this point that she sounds like somebody who really knows what's going on in the show

[01:29:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Even though she's not watching it. I have to say

[01:29:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's almost as if she has a visual guide

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_06]: May is she plugged into the wire trees that he might be as well dead? It might be that he

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_06]: um

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_06]: That it might be

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry, it might also be that he would be preferable to her than to have

[01:29:54] [SPEAKER_06]: To live with on a daily visual reminder of her role in what happened to her son

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I never did like sausages very much. Now. I really don't like them

[01:30:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Fair enough. Do I keep going with helena? Yes, chris m says

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I think aamons crying because he's desperate at this point and helena is his last real hope to meet the blacks with some kind of dragon parody

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Just told him he's gonna die

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Regarding how helena says agon sits a wooden throne a wheelchair

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Question mark a lot brands wooden wheelchair in game of thrones question. It's a good guess

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, good guess. I think interesting

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that's not a wafo thing. That's right. I think that's right

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I really like this idea that I I like this reminder from the previous email and this here

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Aamons a teenager and he's under tremendous amounts of pressure and he has committed tremendous war crimes

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and and we know that somewhere inside of him. There's a little bit of good

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Yet that could come out maybe do it

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe

[01:31:00] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what his ego said to him when he was uh burning the sharp point

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Do it. Oh boy the dark side is strong with this one

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, uh, athena a

[01:31:10] [SPEAKER_06]: So helena's prophecy the wooden throne is la hay is helena referring to

[01:31:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Say the driftwood throne as a temporary base of power for agon or something like a wheelchair

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Since he can't walk well just curious for other people who haven't read the books

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Honestly with the time it will take for this to come out

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_06]: I may end up reading fire and blood because how will I ever avoid spoilers?

[01:31:33] [SPEAKER_05]: You know that's discovered if you're not looking for spoilers

[01:31:36] [SPEAKER_05]: It's kind of like you won't notice them. You might see them, but you won't notice them

[01:31:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Just use our show guide. You won't get spoiled. Yeah, you won't be spoiled

[01:31:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Right just never go on twitter for the next two years. You want to pick up with laris?

[01:31:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, let's go to laris

[01:31:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Chris m says I'm struggling here

[01:31:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Does laris actually have any qualifications to be master of whispers because agon giving him the title is thanks

[01:32:00] [SPEAKER_05]: For some pretty obvious insight

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_05]: uh

[01:32:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Unlike massaria, he doesn't really do any subterfuge. He just pays a little more attention than anyone else

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Burning his family alive isn't master of whispers work. That's his main claim to villainy

[01:32:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess he also finds out that massaria the real mistress of whispers has plans and alice's red new

[01:32:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Who he subs out for his own?

[01:32:25] [SPEAKER_05]: It feels very similar to christin bumbling his way into lord commander and hand

[01:32:30] [SPEAKER_05]: catching a teen green trend

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm. You fail upwards into incompetence in this administration. It seems like it although I will say

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_06]: they

[01:32:41] [SPEAKER_06]: established laris with his sort of little criminal network in season one

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_06]: And then have just basically they haven't done anymore to bolster that and they're just making us

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Assume

[01:32:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Like I think we just have to shorthand it on our own to say that oh, he's a master

[01:32:57] [SPEAKER_06]: But I agree that they have not shown much of his like they made a big deal of him swapping out her

[01:33:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Alice since uh

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Retain, but then they never did anything with it. Maybe we'll come up later. You know, I'm I'm willing to give them a pass on that

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Uh, I'm just gonna finish up christin coal here and then I'll pass it to you for daemon

[01:33:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Marilyn our favorite tulkin scholar says it seems to me that christin coal is taking himself and even more

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_05]: His misdeeds and wickedness way too seriously put him next to daemon and then try not to laugh too hard at christin

[01:33:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I don't know. I don't know they they both have done pretty atrocious things. I mean

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Daemon has straight up murdered people as has christin right christin the straight up murders joffrey lawnmuth at a wedding

[01:33:41] [SPEAKER_05]: He um murder dude at this small council meeting murders. Yep. Yep out of out of rage and

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_05]: A lack of control over his own actions and sets the twins to fight

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_05]: He does set the twins to fight and then he

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Really helped start this war like he is instrumental in starting this war

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I think you could put a lot of the blame for the dance of dragons on him

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_06]: It was his plan to with a mend to

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_06]: What was the name of that cast? I have work trust. Thank you. Yeah, so yeah

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_05]: I think uh, you know, it's not a competition. They could both be able. That's fine

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_06]: I think I think we need to clip. Uh, can you do maybe you could do that? You could make uh

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Marilyn a clip of um

[01:34:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Of uh christen kohl

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Doing his

[01:34:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Final thesis for his philosophy 101 course

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_06]: And uh and just have that so that she can just watch that because that is a pretty epic scene. So

[01:34:40] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, uh abby just asked me what's the cutoff for books brother feedback and I said 10 hours

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_06]: All right, let's pick up with daemon christina j some lingering questions for us

[01:34:53] [SPEAKER_06]: How do you think daemon who calls nobleman to have his fate in their hands boy

[01:34:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Is going to respond to the dragon seeds oaf in particular? Ah

[01:35:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Had not thought about that

[01:35:06] [SPEAKER_06]: That's a really good point christina. Uh, it's gonna be

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_06]: It's gonna be interesting. He's not gonna

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Oaf is not he's gonna be on a very short leash with daemon. Yeah, I think so

[01:35:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Daemon saw helene in his vision if when re re takes king's landing

[01:35:23] [SPEAKER_06]: How do you think that may influence his interaction with helene within proximity?

[01:35:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Depends if he goes with her to king's landing right he might say in the riverlands

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm being king of the the the riverlands. Well, I just mean

[01:35:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Look, we got two more seasons right? Let's say she takes king's landing next episode which i'm not confirming or denying

[01:35:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't I don't actually know how they're right. He's just being yeah

[01:35:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, is he gonna really be able to abandon their other lands yet?

[01:35:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Or is he gonna have to like hold this whole area?

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_06]: But at some point there's a good chance that at some point they're gonna cross paths

[01:35:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure in general so that'll be interesting. Yeah

[01:36:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, will he tell reniera she's a witch and try to utilize her or neutralize her

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's pro witch now. I think he's been sensitized. I think alice's has gotten

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Sorted out we also do she brings booze

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, we also daemon suck at the hard stuff. How do you imagine?

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_06]: He will interact with a council that will have just as much influence

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Example misaria as his own when it comes to reniera's decisions

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's gonna be more

[01:36:37] [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's he's gonna be more he's he's more well healed now. He's gonna be more well healed now and he will be more

[01:36:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Operating as a hand would operate then will be a spoiler as he's been in the past

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think he's he seems pretty loyal at this point. Yeah

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh and as long as he doesn't get in he's great when it's with the up and up

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Fighting stuff and and minute arms and armies and I mean, right you you perform the gold cloaks and all that stuff

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_06]: So keep him there and I think he'll be fine on that focused on that kind of stuff, right?

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, but but but

[01:37:14] [SPEAKER_06]: When daemon eventually crosses paths with misaria

[01:37:18] [SPEAKER_06]: There's gonna have to be a reckoning

[01:37:20] [SPEAKER_06]: because up until

[01:37:22] [SPEAKER_06]: The moment he took the knee

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_06]: You know misaria and reniera were were had a sort of a common point of view is of daemon being this

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Difficult

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Right x factor thing and they both have history with him

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Now reniera's experienced daemon taking the knee and the authenticity of that

[01:37:43] [SPEAKER_06]: But misaria hasn't so misaria and daemon are going to have to have their own reckoning right at some point

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_06]: That's gonna be interesting

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_05]: And uh

[01:37:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Not to mention there's been a kiss between

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, uh, and daemon's wife. Very good

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, this show could veer off very into very strange territories

[01:38:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh continuing her email. I almost thought to myself girl. It's better not to have him because look at what he hath wrought already

[01:38:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, he's bloodied your hands with more war crimes than she herself can uh concoct

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_06]: As advocate team blacks. Are you not worried? Thanks for the great coverage

[01:38:24] [SPEAKER_05]: He's not great for pr

[01:38:26] [SPEAKER_05]: What's that? He's not great for pr. That's that's for sure. Yeah

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody's just like oh it's daemon

[01:38:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that a show everybody loves daemon? Oh, no

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, no

[01:38:40] [SPEAKER_06]: You want to pick up with jasaris? Yeah

[01:38:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Ha ha

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Just saris chacaras whatever it is whatever it is jace

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_05]: chris says

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_05]: J slash bella even though jace was incredibly classist as his raniere

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Even though i lean team black. I don't know that where this whole raniere is for the people's land has come from

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_05]: His point remains super valid. I'm just gonna say on the raniere is for the people's land

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I I don't think that that is a thing. I think that misaria is pushing her to be for the people

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, right. I think she just has an advisor near her making her do the right thing here

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Well

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_06]: She has been trying to avoid. I mean that was the whole point of her going

[01:39:21] [SPEAKER_06]: To king's landing to meet with alison was to try to avoid war. She's been trying to avoid war now

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Whether it's just because she wants to avoid war or she's doing it for the small folk

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Or is she doing it for because the small folk

[01:39:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Are gonna be in the armies, but who are the armies gonna be led led by?

[01:39:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, in fact the the the armies are mostly going to be made up of minor lords

[01:39:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, right and they're and their families

[01:39:46] [SPEAKER_06]: And she doesn't have an army until daemon actually pulls the riverlands together, right? So

[01:39:50] [SPEAKER_05]: All right

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_05]: And then chris continues but bella reading him the riot act was my maybe my favorite moment for her

[01:40:01] [SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting that she is way more worldly than he is clearly fostering at high tide was good for her

[01:40:07] [SPEAKER_05]: She's far more even headed than jace or reyna who both grew up at dragon stone agreed. Yep, agreed

[01:40:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, bella's bella's got it as solid and uh, it goes back to that previous email about

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_06]: The women in the show are a lot smarter, right?

[01:40:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we're getting to renier now I can see the bottom of the document john. I know this is very exciting

[01:40:29] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, i'll just get a continue quick. Christina says

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh with agon gone there would be no reason for renier to hold up her end of any deal to let allison and hullina free

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Will allison find herself prisoner or will common sense prevail that clearly other forces operate on king's landing

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Is it common sense?

[01:40:48] [SPEAKER_05]: When allison has already gone behind your back to crown him

[01:40:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Right and I think I here's the thing. It is entirely believable that allison would have sent him away before renier got there

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm. I don't I don't think that renier who has not had a good relationship with her for 10 15 years

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Is just going to take her out of words like yeah, he just happened to be gone when I got back, you know

[01:41:12] [SPEAKER_05]: No big deal. Sorry. Sorry oopsies me and hullina are gonna go now

[01:41:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think this is going to be a very interesting situation

[01:41:19] [SPEAKER_06]: And it plays into the continued history that these two have had since their childhood

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_06]: That they just no matter what circumstance all these circumstances

[01:41:29] [SPEAKER_06]: They just end up hurting each other and disbelieving each other and these little things happen that are

[01:41:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes part of their control and sometimes out of their control and they just they just keeps eroding the trust that they have each other

[01:41:42] [SPEAKER_05]: right, right

[01:41:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And then we have

[01:41:48] [SPEAKER_05]: chris m saying

[01:41:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I think the renier a miss area kiss is an issue because it didn't pay off this season, but it's already had

[01:41:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Consequences notice at her and haul after renier and damon makeup

[01:42:01] [SPEAKER_05]: He tries to do his little lovers in sink head bump, but she turns away

[01:42:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Ooh good catch. They're pretty in irreparably broken because renier has moved on with miss areas help. I think

[01:42:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I actually disagree with this. Okay, I disagree with this. I think what it was was

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_05]: We our chemistry is alive again, but we are in front of a bunch of minor lords and forces

[01:42:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And we have to keep this in a private area

[01:42:24] [SPEAKER_05]: They've never done that as far as I can remember in front of anybody else. Hmm. Okay

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_05]: This is a very conservative society, right? They have to do this behind closed doors

[01:42:35] [SPEAKER_06]: And she was pretty clear like yeah, you know, I think she was excited

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_06]: I think there was a glimmer of excitement in her face. Yeah, she said, yeah, don't leave me again

[01:42:43] [SPEAKER_05]: So she could be attracted to more than one person, you know, yeah, absolutely

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm gonna disagree with chris their their attraction has gone deep

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_06]: But I will agree that it with chris and that it's going to be complicated

[01:42:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Right status. It's complicated. It's going to be like avaril avine all over again dragon seeds

[01:43:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Layer cake. Sorry. I had to stumble on that one. Sorry about that. All right. Layer cake confirmed

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_05]: That is the pronunciation of the name. It is correct and I just stumbled

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_06]: So on the one hand, I get the feeling that alph is going to be a problem

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_06]: This is not exactly halena level clairvoyance by me

[01:43:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Fair enough

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_06]: The show made it pretty obvious between his feet being on the fancy table in his manners around rinera

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_06]: He's going to love having a dragon so much maybe in the way where he just wakes up one day and says

[01:43:32] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't have to listen to these people anymore. I can just go do cool dragon stuff

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_06]: This is the problem

[01:43:37] [SPEAKER_06]: This is going this is the problem with making a goof a god

[01:43:43] [SPEAKER_06]: On the other hand, I do kind of love the idea of wolf upending the entire system of the monarchy by becoming a flying pirate

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Who answers to no one? I also love the idea of hu getting fed up and crushing ulf's head in his hand like an empty red solo

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Lots of ways this can end well for me indeed layer cake indeed

[01:44:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to remain silent on all of this. Okay, you're you're just you're just positing all these things that I can't

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_05]: confirm and deny any of them

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_06]: We love a good podcast that or we love a good show where we can we can

[01:44:17] [SPEAKER_06]: speculate at this level waffle away

[01:44:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Closing arguments, uh, I'll read marilane here and then you want to close up with uh,

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Nate's sure the closing arguments techno thunder dome

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_06]: No

[01:44:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Marilyn says on the topic of the rate of change of technology in medieval europe

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Medieval england from the years 1 000 to 1500 there certainly was a vast amount

[01:44:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Much depends I suppose on what sorts of technology is looking at military

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, our architectural

[01:44:48] [SPEAKER_06]: artistic one example gunpowder it came in the late 1400s

[01:44:55] [SPEAKER_06]: So it was not as well developed as it was in later years

[01:44:59] [SPEAKER_06]: But it resulted in a change in architecture as well as warfare

[01:45:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Spectacles water clocks printing all of these things were introduced in england or europe during those 500 years

[01:45:12] [SPEAKER_06]: The same could be said for medicine art clothing pretty much all areas of cultural history

[01:45:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Major medical developments occurred when texts from greek jewish and arabic authors made their way into western europe

[01:45:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Were translated and their ideas integrated into pre-existing systems

[01:45:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Human beings are constantly inventing and changing the only thing that may alter is the rate of change

[01:45:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, um, so marilane wrote in with that affirming

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_05]: What we were saying about you know

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Technology does move in medieval england and why does it move in westeros?

[01:45:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Nate came in to say no, we're all wrong

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And I there was a nuanced conversation. I don't want to be so reductive, but yeah

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_05]: essentially like some some technology moves some doesn't

[01:45:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, it was a lot slower during that that 500 year period known at one point as the dark ages or medieval ages

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think the whole point is the collapse of the

[01:46:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Roman empire, you know what? I'm just gonna read Nate's email. How about that?

[01:46:13] [SPEAKER_05]: House of the dragon begins in 101

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_05]: After conquest game of thrones begin in 298 a.c

[01:46:20] [SPEAKER_05]: So there's a 197 year difference between the beginning of each series

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_05]: If you pick any 200 year span between the fall of the roman empire in 476 ad up to 1095

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_05]: The year of the first crusade and over 600 year span could you identify any significant technological changes?

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I would argue not

[01:46:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Westeros isn't Rome at its height. So politically slash organizationally, it's not it's going to be

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_05]: West less way less together rather

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Pick any point along that line and you're not going to see much technological difference

[01:46:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Even in military technology, which David rightly points out is one of the first things to develop due to the stakes of falling behind

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Surely technology did advance during that time in some ways, but it wouldn't be apparent necessarily

[01:47:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Likewise technology regressed somewhat dramatically after the fall of Rome

[01:47:10] [SPEAKER_05]: While the dark ages is no longer accepted to describe this period in the academic community

[01:47:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Certainly early medieval european society lost capabilities and knowledge that the romans had

[01:47:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, those skills and knowledge were being preserved in Byzantium and the muslim states

[01:47:28] [SPEAKER_05]: 200 years is the blink of an eye the pace of change since the industrial revolution is insane by comparison

[01:47:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Especially the later 20th century to now

[01:47:38] [SPEAKER_05]: So it seems like nothing has changed

[01:47:41] [SPEAKER_05]: but would

[01:47:42] [SPEAKER_05]: But what would in that world?

[01:47:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Especially when you already have flying tactical nukes why advance langs?

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, I think I think the one quibble I had with Nate's statement is that

[01:47:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think you can tie

[01:47:57] [SPEAKER_05]: The lack of technological growth to the fall of a major empire in house of the dragon

[01:48:02] [SPEAKER_05]: You do have an equivalent to the fall of Rome in the fall of alleria, but that's completely disconnected from westeros

[01:48:08] [SPEAKER_05]: in fact the fall of alleria

[01:48:10] [SPEAKER_05]: brought the

[01:48:11] [SPEAKER_05]: The valerians to westeros and actually helped technology move a little bit in westeros

[01:48:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Right, and it was it brought culture over weren't they even even the the the targaryens weren't even they sort of

[01:48:25] [SPEAKER_06]: I heard something today where like they they weren't even the best of the best of oh no, they were a weak

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_05]: House in valeria, right?

[01:48:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And then valerians were not even dragon lords as corolla says I think in the last in the seventh episode

[01:48:40] [SPEAKER_06]: So the one thing I'm kind of taking away between maryland's point and nate's point is

[01:48:45] [SPEAKER_06]: The delta of change that the rate at which change occurs and if we look at the fall of

[01:48:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Rome

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_06]: And the first crusade and then maryland is basically picking up from the first crusade on

[01:49:00] [SPEAKER_06]: That we have the chase and I think during the crusades

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_06]: That was a time of great of like pulling the knowledge back up out of the you know all of these distant places

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, uh, and and the romans man the romans

[01:49:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Their engineering was off the hook crazy stuff that they were doing in terms of moving water around and road technologies

[01:49:20] [SPEAKER_06]: They were wild anyway. That's a separate story, but then they did shit in a room together

[01:49:26] [SPEAKER_05]: So I don't know I don't know if I want to live in Rome anyway

[01:49:29] [SPEAKER_06]: You know that actually makes me think all the more about foundation and then the whole premise of foundation of trying to

[01:49:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Bank of this knowledge so that once we get through these

[01:49:40] [SPEAKER_06]: The after we unwind all of this violence and torment that then there's information there that can be pulled up and

[01:49:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Useful again. Same thing happened. That's that's a big part of the ladder parks parts of dune as well

[01:49:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Is how do you foreshorten?

[01:49:55] [SPEAKER_06]: These troubles and then how do you pick up the pieces so that you can get back to where you were faster than if you had a

[01:50:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Similar trajectory

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Without having that knowledge banked right so okay. All right. Yeah, no neat made a lot of really good points

[01:50:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I I poke fun, but uh neat neat really has the historian stuff down and I'm just this

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Lily podcaster pontificating on my laborer's knowledge

[01:50:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, John we've come to the end of our final house the dragon feedback

[01:50:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Nancy again, thank you so much. Thank you to everyone in the community for such a

[01:50:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Lively and vigorous conversation and discussion. It really makes the show a lot more fun when we get to to work through these things

[01:50:41] [SPEAKER_06]: John it's been a pleasure. Thank you for all your work on house of the dragon show guide

[01:50:45] [SPEAKER_06]: The one guide to rule them all is ready

[01:50:49] [SPEAKER_06]: The show pass is ready the season passes for that as ready

[01:50:53] [SPEAKER_06]: We just don't what we don't have a lot of

[01:50:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Information yet on scheduling from amazon. No, we don't because that's how amazon goes and we did ask for screeners

[01:51:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I hope we get them

[01:51:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Amazon if you're listening if you're trying to do like a vibe check, right?

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I love you. You're the best network ever and

[01:51:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Everything is great. It wasn't at the one line email that we got back like oh, we'll keep it posted or yeah

[01:51:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's usually what we got though. That was this one was like not even signed by anybody. I know

[01:51:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I know

[01:51:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, you know what? We love you amazon. We love you online emails

[01:51:26] [SPEAKER_05]: You give us those screeners and everything will be all good. We're just a bunch of bootlicks and licks

[01:51:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Elix pedaling begins. Let's uh wrap it out. Thank you very you guys and you and alisha are our lower casting tomorrow morning

[01:51:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Is yeah, okay?

[01:51:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yep

[01:51:43] [SPEAKER_06]: And uh, I'd be out within a day or two of this being out sounds good

[01:51:48] [SPEAKER_06]: What else do we have going on in the world of the lorehounds?

[01:51:53] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I never wrote a weekly schedule this week, but

[01:51:56] [SPEAKER_05]: That's because it's just been crazy

[01:51:59] [SPEAKER_05]: But we just put out dead bull and wolverine. So that's that's coming out

[01:52:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I know you just did a trailer breakdown of alien aramulus

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, our joint project with every single sci-fi film ever. Uh, aisha and I did a

[01:52:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Sort of little primer for alien aramulus and then yesterday we recorded

[01:52:19] [SPEAKER_06]: An episode with chew academics roger and jason

[01:52:24] [SPEAKER_06]: that episode is that's a

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_06]: That on the joint project side that one's more on aisha's side

[01:52:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Sort of following her format a little bit and that's going to come out on the 18th

[01:52:34] [SPEAKER_06]: So just a couple days after aramulus comes out and then we are recording

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_06]: So we're doing a whole bunch of timey whiny podcast stuff

[01:52:42] [SPEAKER_06]: but we're recording an episode with

[01:52:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Alisha and aisha and fingers crossed ron on the 45th anniversary of alien the 1979 movie

[01:52:54] [SPEAKER_06]: And then for subscribers. I did a breakdown of the alien trial aramulus

[01:52:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Trailer and I did that actually like

[01:53:03] [SPEAKER_06]: As a video breakdown. Yeah, that was awesome. See me. That was fun. I hope you check that out

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Trying to work with obs and do all these things and so yeah, you got it. OBS is is a nice free software

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_06]: It is very cool

[01:53:16] [SPEAKER_06]: And then what do we go from there? We go

[01:53:19] [SPEAKER_06]: We're kind of just kind of hanging out till the end of the month till we hit the 29th

[01:53:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Well next week. I have a silver alien story dropping. I will be on vacation

[01:53:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And when I say vacation, I mean I'm going to be you know doing family stuff really

[01:53:33] [SPEAKER_05]: But I will be on vacation from potting

[01:53:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Next week, but I will be dropping a silver alien story. It's already it's already scheduled within everything

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so enjoy that that is with aran from lore of the rings

[01:53:46] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm hopefully going to turn around the alien thing too for next week as well

[01:53:49] [SPEAKER_05]: So we'll have a couple things in the week. Yeah, and also aren't you doing a preview for rings of power?

[01:53:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh

[01:53:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, season one. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, Marilyn and I are doing a season one recap and you we're going to use the

[01:54:00] [SPEAKER_06]: excellent recap that you wrote for the

[01:54:03] [SPEAKER_06]: One guide to rule them all and we're going to use that as our backbone

[01:54:06] [SPEAKER_06]: And we're going to keep that real tight and just to make sure that like if you don't have time to do a full season

[01:54:11] [SPEAKER_06]: One re rewatch

[01:54:13] [SPEAKER_06]: You'll be able to listen to this pod and be caught up to speed ready to start for season two

[01:54:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I look forward to your tight two hour podcast

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_06]: That is short for uh, when we have Marilyn on the podcast that is I know as soon as we were like

[01:54:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's going to be the three of us on the pot. I'm like, we got to start at like 5 p.m

[01:54:35] [SPEAKER_05]: For reals. All right. Well, how about some shout outs before we head out of here do that

[01:54:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Isn't nice nice. I like this

[01:54:46] [SPEAKER_06]: When I cruise around with the top down in my car at sunset, yeah

[01:54:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Our discord server boosters are gnarls

[01:54:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Aaron K until the thriller dork the ninjas duve 71 captain gingy 56 athena ajalea

[01:55:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Adrienne and Tina. Thank you for making our discord a better place for our community

[01:55:07] [SPEAKER_06]: To our lore masters some rshan michael g michelle e david w brian p s c

[01:55:14] [SPEAKER_06]: peter oh btina w

[01:55:16] [SPEAKER_06]: atms

[01:55:18] [SPEAKER_06]: ncm

[01:55:19] [SPEAKER_06]: duve 71 brian 80 63 who is also our lore librarian our

[01:55:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Lorebrarian

[01:55:26] [SPEAKER_06]: We have a blog. Uh, well, we'll talk about it on another podcast

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Frederick h sarah l garacy eric f

[01:55:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Matthew m dj miwa sarah m on drabby kong you dead i dead i bob

[01:55:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Nathan t alix b air and t

[01:55:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Sub-zero erin k

[01:55:46] [SPEAKER_06]: dally v mother ship 61

[01:55:48] [SPEAKER_06]: gnarls

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Kathy w steward b

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_06]: jeffrey b

[01:55:52] [SPEAKER_06]: elisa you

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_06]: And adrian. Thank you all so very much for being top tier subscribers

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for your ongoing support. It really means means the world to us. Thank you to all of our subscribers

[01:56:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you to all of our listeners

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_06]: We had a great time this season. We hope you did as well

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_06]: And uh, we'll see you on the next pod. Thanks, john

[01:56:15] [SPEAKER_05]: See you then

[01:56:17] [SPEAKER_05]: The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds

[01:56:20] [SPEAKER_05]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the lorehounds.com slash contact

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds

[01:56:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities

[01:56:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening