Elysia, John, and Mark return to Derry, Maine to watch a new generation of children suffer the horrors of Pennywise the Dancing Clown. They break down the Dark Tower easter eggs, the connections to the movies and books, and their theories for what's coming next this season.
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00:09 --> 00:28 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
00:37 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the horrorhounds podcast where the lorehounds your guides to small town terrors.
00:43 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm John.
00:44 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Alicia and this is our coverage of it.
00:47 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to dairy on HBO Max.
00:49 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Season 1 episode 1, the pilot.
00:52 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_04]: If you want to get in contact with us, send an email to horror at the lorehounds.com or head to our discord server from the
01:04 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you like which you've heard and want to support us or get ad free bonus contents, check the same link tree for our Patreon and supercast subscription options.
01:13 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk more about upcoming episodes there at the end, right?
01:18 --> 01:18 [SPEAKER_04]: We sure will.
01:19 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Now we've got another close with us today.
01:22 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Mark from Nevermind the Music Hello Mark.
01:26 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Hi John Hi Alicia, happy to be here.
01:28 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Talk some Stephen King or maybe not Stephen King.
01:31 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Is this an adaptation?
01:32 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
01:32 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's we'll talk.
01:34 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we'll talk about it.
01:34 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to talk about some background, but, you know, very quickly, you're joining us this episode.
01:40 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I know you're going to join us where you can in this season, right?
01:43 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I want to be a part of it as much as as much as I can.
01:46 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's see how the schedule works out, and et cetera.
01:50 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:51 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Looking forward to it.
01:52 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Very cool.
01:53 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And if people haven't heard your podcast,
01:55 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_03]: What is it about?
01:56 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Never mind the music, me, a musician, and Nicole, a psychologist, talk about songs.
02:03 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Check us out.
02:03 --> 02:07 [SPEAKER_03]: We've actually got Alicia coming up as a guest.
02:07 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_03]: This week in honor of the World Series, which is just evened up, too, too.
02:12 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_03]: We've got the organist from the San Francisco Giants and to talk about what it's like to play in the mass cultural moment of sporting events, which I thought was a pretty cool guest.
02:23 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_03]: next week we're talking about blondie just Nicole and I and then Alicia's here to talk hope punk and even a little Superman the week after that so people should check us out if you haven't already i'm loving it that's that's great stuff so everyone go check out never by the music that's also in the link tree in the show notes you can find all of our affiliates there but especially never mind the music is marks here yeah
02:49 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_04]: So, the first episode how it's keeping, like I said, Mark will be joining us when he's available, but Alicia and I will be doing weekly coverage every week, no matter if Mark is available or not, and I want to do some background of everybody on the it franchise and Steven King generally Mark, you're our guest for today.
03:10 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_04]: So, what's your history with Steven King and the it franchise?
03:15 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_03]: So it is, I want to say kind of like the same era as the Wheel of Time for me, which is to say, a book I was handed when I was a middle schooler that was very dauntingly big, but I read.
03:27 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So I read it probably when I was a seventh or eighth grader, and that was the first Steven King book I read, and it was
03:36 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_03]: was very inappropriate for me to read at that age, especially low, especially a scene at the near the end of the book, which might come up later this season, but I actually kind of hope does not.
03:48 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But it never comes up in any of the movies.
03:52 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I know what you mean.
03:53 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It sure does
03:55 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking about that, so we just talk about it now.
03:58 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, John.
03:59 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry.
04:00 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I just think that that particular, see, I don't think we should even talk about it on there because because the entire Stephen King fandom, I think has pretty much chosen to ignore this scene.
04:10 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I think for Ted, Stephen King too.
04:13 --> 04:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'd see it right.
04:15 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it was, there was a lot of cocaine going on.
04:18 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
04:18 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_04]: And things were written that didn't need to be written.
04:23 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do have to say, I mean, I know we'll get into how takes in a second, but one thing, they're obviously taking these interludes for this show and expanding them, but it does feel very Stephen King in this sense of like, there's a little bit of sexual reproductive terror going on.
04:42 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_03]: So for me, that was just the beginning, though, I, I probably like a lot of people my age, my dad was a big, my dad's.
04:51 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_03]: My dad's actual, should I say this publicly?
04:53 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_03]: My dad's was born named Stephen King.
04:57 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_03]: My last name is not actually my dad's birth name.
05:00 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_03]: It's his stepfather's name.
05:02 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And my dad is, was Stephen King.
05:04 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry dad, I'm outing you.
05:06 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's about the same age as Stephen King.
05:10 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Spilled differently though.
05:12 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And,
05:13 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_03]: yeah so i was handed a lot of those books so whatever i read i actually went through the the list of steven kings books and i've read nineteen steven king novels um so i read it
05:26 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_03]: twice.
05:27 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I read it probably when I was 12 and then again when I was in my early 20s or something and I have not read it in like probably almost 20 years or something like that.
05:35 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_03]: But I've read Salem's lot.
05:36 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I've read the shining.
05:37 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I've read Doctor Sleep, which is the sequel.
05:39 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I've read the stand plus the graphic novel of the stand.
05:43 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I've read all seven dark tower books plus the wind for the keyhole, which I guess is the eighth book.
05:48 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Plus the graphic novels.
05:49 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I've read the Tommy knockers.
05:54 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_03]: different seasons and four past midnight.
05:56 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Those last two are the, are two of the short story collections.
05:59 --> 06:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Plus movies.
06:00 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So like, I haven't read it in a while, but I feel like I've read, I can't believe how much Stephen King I've read actually over the years.
06:07 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of crazy.
06:08 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm definitely here for this.
06:10 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Saw the 90s, many series when I was a little kid.
06:13 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Saw the, it movies a few years ago.
06:17 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm here for it.
06:19 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow, you are going to be our book expert.
06:21 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I know you said you haven't read it in a while, but let's pretend you did.
06:25 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, the weird thing is like, because I've read the dark tower pretty recently, a lot of this stuff is connected.
06:30 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like I've been reminded of a lot of, right?
06:34 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_03]: There's, you know, Pennywise is a character in it but like,
06:41 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_03]: the cosmology, the turtle, all that stuff comes up in a lot of the other books and some of these characters or like, you know, Juniper Hill, asylum shows up as a, you know, mentioned in so many of the books.
06:53 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a whole interconnectivity to a lot of this.
06:56 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel like it feels more recently than, you know, the 2000s since I've read this book.
07:03 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So to speak.
07:05 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_04]: right.
07:06 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean that that's a lot of cosmology.
07:09 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I know that there's a bunch of penny-wise stuff where people are like, what what is happening with with the dark tower?
07:14 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_04]: So I am I'm curious to have you bring that up if if things are referenced as we go along.
07:21 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_04]: I heard that there was a turtle reference in their episode I didn't catch it.
07:25 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_01]: They were helpful.
07:25 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_04]: We should probably talk turtle later.
07:27 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk.
07:28 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
07:28 --> 07:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we'll have turtle talk.
07:30 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
07:30 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
07:32 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
07:35 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah.
07:36 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Stephen King overall.
07:38 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I first discovered him actually finding like a couple Richard Bachman books on the shelf, which for anyone who doesn't know is a pen name that he would write some books under back in the day.
07:50 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think like this first Stephen King book I read was actually Richard Bachman book called thinner and like the girl who loves Tom Gordon.
07:58 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Um,
07:58 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_01]: definitely got into those which lean more toward magical realism and then I think it was I was too young when the 1990s the 1990 it came out.
08:09 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely didn't watch that on TV at the time but when the stand came out on TV then I was a teenager and I watched it with my parents and that made a huge impression on me and
08:24 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I didn't do as Mark did and Mark down exactly what Stephen King books I've read.
08:29 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I've read a lot of them, especially some of the more recent ones.
08:35 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_01]: The Dark Tower series is my sister's favorite series.
08:39 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely read, like, what is it called?
08:43 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a dreamwalker, a dreamcatcher, a bag of bones, stuff like that, yeah.
08:50 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just started now.
08:53 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I decided, okay, I'm going to finally read it or rather, I'm doing the audio book version so that I was like, I can't, I have too much other stuff to read.
09:02 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't interrupt my physical reading.
09:04 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So I got the audio book version and I am a couple chapters in.
09:08 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you read the dark tower or it's just your sister has and so you feel like you've read I have read more than half of the dark tower I do still need to finish that series But I see the overlaps.
09:18 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely see the overlaps and I was even I just posted on blue sky With with the it stuff, and you know, I obviously just rewatched all the it movies before this and I was thinking that house that Jake goes through in the drawing of three Yes, which is it.
09:34 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the second book is that
09:36 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that the same as the House Unable Street?
09:40 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and it?
09:41 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_03]: To go questions.
09:42 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It seems very similar that's, and it's the spider stuff and the wallpaper, and there's like a lot of stuff that's screaming at me, same house.
09:50 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't mean New York, I think, but it might kind of be.
09:54 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Metphysically, some of the weirdest connections potentially are actually in the last couple of books, so like I'll take it easy if I'm trying to mention dark tower stuff.
10:05 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't, I'd have to remember it's been a while since I've read the drawing of the three.
10:08 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_03]: There's this character that ends up kind of like almost insert, inter-dimensionally going to this old house, and it does have a lot of vibes, similarities to the scene.
10:20 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_03]: If people remember the kids go in this haunted house in the 2017 film.
10:25 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And I, is our wearable fin there.
10:28 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Something I'm trying to remember what's in there in the film version.
10:31 --> 10:33 [SPEAKER_03]: But that's the house she's talking about.
10:33 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, in the drawing of the three in the dark tower book, there's particularly spider stuff going on that always stuck in my head.
10:41 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So, and then I realized, yeah, because the entity often appears as a spider.
10:49 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
10:50 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think we can talk more about the connections as they come along.
10:53 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
10:54 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_01]: What about that?
10:55 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very cool.
10:56 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_04]: And by the way, I'm glad that you, I'm first one, whether Mark has a bunch of Stephen King background, and I'm glad that you're reading it right now, because I started it.
11:06 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I read the first few pages and I went, you know what?
11:08 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't have to be the book expert this.
11:10 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's just...
11:11 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't need to do this to myself and I just stopped.
11:15 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, I just, it's okay.
11:17 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_04]: I saw the movies.
11:18 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_04]: That's where I'm going into this with.
11:21 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
11:22 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I've read the Shining.
11:23 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's the only, oh, and I've read the drawing of the three a long time ago, but those are the only Steven King books that I really read.
11:31 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_04]: all the way through.
11:32 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I've tried to read it a few times, but it was just so daunting, which is funny, because I'll read like the Stormlight Archive in the Wheel of Time, like thousand page fantasy books, but for some reason it is a mental block for me.
11:43 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Try the audio book.
11:44 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really good.
11:46 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, maybe I will.
11:47 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I will at some point probably not this season, but we'll talk about it.
11:51 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_04]: We might have more opportunities to cover this show.
11:56 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_03]: part of the part of what you sign up for.
11:58 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_03]: They don't come to the chase.
12:01 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_03]: So like, you can be, I'd have to really look at my list and think like what's an example.
12:08 --> 12:26 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there could be a supernatural horror novel that's Stephen King written by Stephen King that you're like 250 pages in and there's no supernatural horror and you're just like lost in the sauce of these people's lives and you can either go this is.
12:27 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a waste of time, or you go, this is actually the point.
12:31 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like I'm building this real understanding of the characters, right?
12:35 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So like I can think of 11, 2263.
12:37 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if any of you saw the mini series based on that, but that's basically somebody goes back to that.
12:43 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That's excellent.
12:43 --> 12:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
12:44 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_03]: It was pretty well done.
12:45 --> 12:53 [SPEAKER_03]: But somebody goes back in the in time to try to prevent the assassination of JFK, right?
12:53 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And there's this whole bit in the middle,
12:56 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_03]: this this guy fills his time while he's back in the 60s waiting for the assassination to stop now I'm not spoiling anything major but he becomes a high school teacher and there's this whole like I want to say hundred page sequence that is him trying to get the football players to sign up for the for the drama club to do this play they're doing like and you kind of stop and you go like what is the point of this
13:18 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And then you go, wait, but this is the best part of the book, because he's falling in love with this other teacher, and he's becoming a mess, and you know that his mission is to do this harrowing obviously very supernatural thing, which is stop the assassination, but you realize that the emotional core of the book rests on these random
13:39 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_03]: character life story interactions.
13:42 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And with it, yes, there's the murder at the beginning and things like that.
13:47 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of supernatural horror, but there's also a lot of like 11-year-olds do-and-stuff.
13:52 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And it can be daunting and you can be like, oh, what am I here for?
13:57 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_03]: But the truth is you're here for that.
14:00 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you're not here for that, the like childhood nostalgia
14:07 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_03]: that then you're not here for Stephen King right so i don't know i guess i just want to tell people when they see a thousand page book be ready for a while for it to warm up right the shining you've read john like the ghost start there for a real long time you know right but that's like part of what makes like if it was a 200 page ghost story it wouldn't be Stephen King and it wouldn't be as great as
14:31 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, this story that's really about alcoholism that takes so, so, so long to get where the iconic film scenes are.
14:40 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just was watching, rewatching, as I said, of course, the recent it movies.
14:46 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was thinking that that's exactly what they kind of got wrong in the part two.
14:52 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I like part two, I think most people agree that part one from 2017 is the better of the two.
14:58 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was looking at like what zoo I feel is lacking in part two.
15:03 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And it seems like,
15:04 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_01]: it's a stringing together of scares rather than what the book is really about intergenerational trauma and bigotry and kind of, I'm friendship.
15:17 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that was better with the kids and with the adults that didn't quite gel to the same degree.
15:23 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But it just feels like that the movie,
15:25 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is a hangout story, but it's not just about a string of scares.
15:33 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about people exploring what really drives their fear and it's often bigotry.
15:41 --> 15:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, putting together what you're saying, the heart of Stephen King is the relationship
15:51 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_04]: They did not have that in the second movie in the 2019 movie because they put everyone on these single-person quests, right?
15:59 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_04]: They said, you go on your quest to find your, I forgot what it was, token or something.
16:05 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_04]: And that kind of took away that day in the life thing and, you know, that's also something I talk about with what we've lost in like sitcoms and more casual shows with the eight to 10 episodes.
16:18 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_04]: you know, you don't have those extra 10 episodes to really breathe and have like, I don't know, we went to get ice cream that day and something silly happened, you know.
16:27 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_04]: It's, uh, it's a shame, and I, but we'll see.
16:30 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I feel like they, they knew that the emotional heart was stronger in the first film.
16:36 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And so in the second film, there are a lot of those flashbacks to them as kids, but most of those flashbacks to them as kids are a scare, right?
16:46 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Not to at least just point.
16:47 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, not, there is, I think there's one, like, or a couple of whether it's like the hangout down in their underground little thing or whatever it was, but it's not
16:56 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_03]: the same, but you could almost tell that they knew that these adults weren't going to have.
17:03 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, the same kind of day in the life feeling because they are all on these missions and they're coming back with the express purpose to kill this monster, right?
17:12 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And so you lose that, whereas the book, it's woven together, right?
17:16 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So you, you're, oh yeah, I think the 1990 movie did that better with the adult stuff because even like it's so stupid, but in the 1990 movie, there's just a scene with,
17:28 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: is it bill and my writing on the bike together?
17:32 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's silly, but you know, I need that.
17:35 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I need that to be invested in the adult versions of them.
17:38 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_03]: So have you seen that recently?
17:39 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Also?
17:41 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Every watch I recently.
17:42 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I haven't seen that in a couple of decades.
17:45 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So hopefully by the end of the season, I'll rewatch that.
17:47 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I've seen, obviously, the, it movies just in general a more recent, but I've seen those more, much more recently than that.
17:53 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_03]: John, what about you?
17:54 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Have you seen the 90s?
17:55 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_03]: One.
17:56 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I've not seen the 90s movie.
17:57 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I will, but so we're going to talk about the background on the show in a minute, but you know, this is this is directly connected to these movies and The 2017-2019 movies rather than the book or the 1990 movie, so that's why I was just focusing on the movies for now.
18:11 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Great.
18:13 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so before we get into more spoilers stuff, we're going to keep getting more spoilers as we go along.
18:18 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_04]: But I just wanted to get everyone to give their spoiler free hot take on the show because this is a horror show.
18:23 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I think people can be hesitant to jump into horror shows.
18:28 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, with with good reason, there's sometimes different levels of hard different types of hard that people are sensitive to and so I just wanted everyone to give their hot take on both, you know, the quality of the show and the, you know, the poochilla scale, the gore level, oh my things that might upset you so at least you want to start
18:48 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, as I said earlier, basically, this is does feel like a deeply Stephen King show.
18:55 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So you need to be on board with like the Iggy, squeaky, not just bloody stuff, but just kind of gross human body stuff.
19:06 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying not to be so hard here.
19:08 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, buddy, her, yeah.
19:11 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the, I think it's interesting, obviously we don't have quite a, not really a spoiler to say the first episode does not have Pennywise as we know it, no Bill Skarsguard yet.
19:22 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_01]: We know he's coming later this season.
19:26 --> 19:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the form that they use instead, you know, that it really is terrifying and where it comes from, the whole opening scene for me was perhaps my favorite part of this episode.
19:39 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So.
19:40 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Overall, I am intrigued by this start.
19:45 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to say this without spoileryness, but the way the episode ends, it's like, okay, we'll now you have to kind of reinvest me to a certain degree.
19:55 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm very curious to see how that happens with episode two.
19:59 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys know I was supposed to go to the theater and see the first two episodes already, but I ended up not being able to do that.
20:07 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So I still have only seen episode one and I'm very curious where they take it from here.
20:13 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, they are actually going to release episode two early out Halloween, instead of putting until Sunday.
20:19 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_04]: So you don't have to wait too long.
20:21 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
20:22 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sorry.
20:23 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_04]: You're your hot take and you're you spoiler free hot take, plus your your gore warning.
20:28 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Gore warning extremely high.
20:31 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say gore warning is higher for this than the film on some level.
20:36 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember exactly, but it's it's pretty.
20:42 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_03]: shock value high.
20:43 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say, especially in the beginning of the show.
20:47 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_03]: My hot take overall like it, I can, we're going to have to talk about the timeline thing because a lot of this, I think Alicia mentioned earlier is inspired by the backstory that's in the novels and in a sort of frame that we can maybe talk about a little bit without spoiling it, but
21:08 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I can see where they're going with some of that stuff, like how some of these historical things are going to be maybe the subject of some of these episodes or even these whole seasons.
21:20 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's interesting because it's all about 30 years shifted in the timeline, and so that's going to have some natural implications on things.
21:29 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm really fascinated.
21:30 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I can see a little bit where they're going, and I'm really here for it.
21:34 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I hate.
21:35 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_03]: kind of disagree.
21:36 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like the first scene is like I have questions I guess.
21:41 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I have some issues with it and some questions.
21:43 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_03]: The first scene meaning just sort of the first set piece.
21:46 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I love it up until a point and then I think it's maybe too much and not just in the gore, but sort of in it it confuses me a little bit.
21:54 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_03]: It feels very is it mushetti, mushetti, how do we pronounce?
22:02 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would assume that it was based on based on, you know, Italian pronunciation, but I'm pretty sure I've heard them say machete in videos.
22:11 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've talked to him for the whole time.
22:13 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, Americanized.
22:15 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, he's not actually not.
22:16 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_01]: He has an accent.
22:18 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure they say machete.
22:20 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_03]: because they a time pronunciation we should say brusketta but we all say brusketta in america right because we don't to treat the ch the same when we americanize yourself so i do and people can be like a widow um so and then the british make fun of us and then they go tacko tacko yeah love it i don't even you don't even get to make fun of me anymore so i guess it felt very true to
22:45 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_03]: his directing style and also his sort of over-reliance maybe on CG.
22:52 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I think some of the scares even that iconic first scene in
22:58 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_03]: The first hit film, where Georgie Dembrouk gets pulled under, right, under the sewer.
23:04 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_03]: It's this really beautifully well done scene, and then Pennywise opens his mouth, and he has got these cartoonist jaws kind of like a video game boss.
23:13 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And even that film, and I really like the first hit film from 2017, in my, in my opinion, just the visuals cross the line into goofy just a little bit.
23:23 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's really much more true.
23:26 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And again, just my opinion, really much more true in the second, it film, it chapter two that just,
23:34 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_03]: almost two, two over the top to be scary, kind of in a kill bill, kind of violence where it's goofy.
23:42 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So like while I said that it's maxed out on the pukillus scale, I would say in terms of Gore, it's almost like you're playing Mortal Kombat from the 90s.
23:52 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's less disturbing than a more realistic depiction of Gore in my opinion, and you know, hot take is, I'm hoping that that doesn't.
24:02 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Compromise the show, but I liked it so far.
24:07 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I said to you to, you know, I was a little bit let down by it, but the more I started looking into the background of the show, the more I have hope for the show.
24:17 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Because, you know, the first episode, it did feel to me like a repeat of the loser's club from the movie, right?
24:24 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'll just say, you know, we've kind of been talking about it already, but just for now, just spoilers for the movies we won't spoil the show yet.
24:31 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it felt like they were just kind of retreading the loser's club, retreading Georgie.
24:35 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm glad sort of the way that the episode played out because now it gives me excitement that something different is going to happen.
24:46 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And I would also agree that this is a very gore heavy show.
24:53 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Davey Mack said in our discord and I agree with this warning.
24:59 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Some people are okay with some kinds of gore and others.
25:03 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_04]: There is graphic pregnancy related imagery that if you are bothered by that kind of thing.
25:12 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_04]: avoid it.
25:14 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_04]: At least skip the first couple of scenes.
25:16 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
25:17 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you'll see it coming closer.
25:18 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, it's about to happen.
25:20 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So just skip forward two minutes when that happens.
25:22 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
25:22 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
25:23 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
25:23 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's that's the only other warning I wanted to give.
25:26 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_04]: But overall, I think that this season has a lot of potential.
25:28 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not like super sold on it yet, but it was a decent episode.
25:34 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And it could be the start of a really great season.
25:36 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_04]: We have eight episodes.
25:37 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_04]: We have a lot of runway now.
25:40 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So, um, background on show, and of course our first section will be shorter next week.
25:46 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_04]: We're just, you know, doing our introductory housekeeping, but the background on show, this was, oh man, now I don't know how to pronounce the name because we're debating it.
25:54 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll say Moosheddy.
25:55 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_04]: So, created by Andy and Barbara Moosheddy, which are siblings and Jason Fuchs.
26:02 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_04]: the mushetties my god mushetties were producers of the 2017 and 2019 it movies and then Andy mushettie directed them.
26:18 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_04]: The show is of course based on the characters in the world of the 1986 Steven King novel it.
26:24 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_04]: King's novel was adapted into a two-part TV mini series in 1990
26:30 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, it was then adapted as two movies in 2017 and 2019.
26:36 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to Dairy is a prequel to this set of movies.
26:39 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_04]: So if you haven't seen those movies, you really should watch them before watching the show.
26:42 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's vital background information.
26:46 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And this series, as Alicia mentioned, is in part based on the interlude from the original novel.
26:52 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's where they're pulling a lot of these situations from.
26:56 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, timeline was, I wanted to discuss this that, uh, Wait, can I just jump in and say that I am wrong?
27:03 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, I looked it up and they do seem to be saying misguilty.
27:08 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, hi.
27:09 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
27:09 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Ah, hi.
27:10 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So Wikipedia was right all along.
27:14 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, so the timeline, the movies take place, the current set of movies take place in the 1980s and the mid 2010s.
27:23 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_04]: The current show takes place in the early 1960s, but I wanted to mention that the original it novel takes place the earlier part in the late 1950s.
27:32 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_04]: So this is actually much closer and time to the original source material, which I think is kind of interesting.
27:37 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think just because of you and I, and I think you're also a fan right mark.
27:45 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We are a fan of an interview with the Vampire, and interview with the Vampire, the TV show.
27:50 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_01]: They did something interesting with shifting the timelines there that actually I think made it a stronger show.
27:57 --> 28:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I go into this with the timeline shift with a lot of good faith because it looks like...
28:03 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_01]: they are really paying attention to the details of the time in which it is set and if you can make that feed the plot right and make that integral to the storytelling then I think that makes the story all the stronger.
28:22 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I would say
28:24 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, I think the comparison to interview with the Vampire's changes is great, and that one, without getting too much into it, there was a central premises about one of the character's sort of life situation in the setting.
28:36 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_03]: They wanted that necessity to that, right?
28:38 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_03]: They wanted storyville in the early 20th century, which is just so different from what is this 1700s version of Louisiana, they wanted that different.
28:47 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_03]: they wanted a black character living in the south in the early 20th century and that is necessitated a very different time.
28:53 --> 28:58 [SPEAKER_03]: This one I feel like the the choice really goes back to the films and I think.
28:59 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_03]: whether it's the Stranger Things vacation of this, which is really interesting snake eating its own tail, since Stranger Things is really owes so much to it.
29:08 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_03]: They wanted the sense of nostalgia of the childhood era and the way to capture that in the 2010s was not with the 50s, but with the 80s, right?
29:20 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_03]: They didn't want two period pieces because the novel is half a period piece, right?
29:28 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_03]: 30 years ago, or 27 years ago, and the adults are supposed to feel like now, right?
29:33 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_03]: It's set when the reader is reading the book in 1980s, right?
29:37 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_03]: That feeling, if you do 50s and 80s in the 2017 film, then it's like double nostalgia.
29:44 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing that feels contemporary.
29:46 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And so,
29:48 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_03]: What we're dealing with now is the consequence is not in an negative sense, but the result of that, right?
29:54 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_03]: We have to go back one generation of the cycle before that, right?
29:57 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of a coincidence, I guess, that we end up essentially in the same era as the original novel, which has all sorts of implications, but I think it's the chasing of that nostalgia period piece thing.
30:12 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_03]: that was a choice of musketti now i'm forgetting which it is musketti made when doing that original original film right i'm guessing that that's that's all it is and they chose to go with that cannon for probably you know just reasons of continuity with the brand right now instead of the the novel cannon like this is not an example of the watchman
30:37 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_03]: TV series, which as I recall is a is a sequel to the book not to the film, right?
30:44 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_03]: It's it it it that really only matters in one key moment in the ending of the book flash film, but definitely a different scenario than this one.
30:54 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
30:55 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I I think that's all right.
30:57 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I I think that, you know, they didn't want multiple period pieces.
31:02 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, and now they're making a show with multiple period pieces.
31:05 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_04]: which is going to be super fun right yeah but they can keep going back um i mean spoilers for the nature of it but they can keep going back for centuries if they wanted to if they got the runway to do so well that is yeah that is what i was going to bring up now which is that there is actually a three season plan for the show um i was not aware of this till i started looking into it but uh they intend to do the first season this one in nineteen
31:34 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_04]: So they're going back 20, 70 years each time.
31:36 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Do it is someone to read this quote because this quote is a little concerning.
31:41 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And I really hope it's tongue and cheese.
31:42 --> 31:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, why is it?
31:43 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, why is it concerning because I, uh, Well, let's get a quote.
31:47 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
31:49 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Mark, you know what you brought it up.
31:50 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't you read it?
31:51 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Can I add my own hilarious emphasis or do I have to read it surface?
31:56 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_03]: You want to know why I think it's concerning?
31:58 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me read it.
31:59 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a quote from Andy Musketty in an interview with CBR.
32:04 --> 32:08 [SPEAKER_03]: You also get a glimpse into the bigger mythology for people who love the book or love the movies.
32:08 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_03]: We're opening a window.
32:10 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Everything that we are setting up in season one, that will really manifest in two and three, is a look into all the bigger questions about it.
32:17 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_03]: What does it want?
32:18 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Why is it here?
32:19 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_03]: All the cryptic elements of it that we're going to ruin and explain.
32:25 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and that may be pretty simple.
32:28 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
32:28 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_03]: It better be because you do learn some backstory of it in it.
32:32 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And you learn in the dark tower and stuff.
32:35 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't learn more about it, but you kind of get a sense more for how this would fit into the larger universe.
32:40 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_03]: And some of that stuff is almost so off topic that I could probably spoil it in this podcast.
32:46 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And it doesn't, it has zero consequences on anything.
32:48 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_03]: But there is also just this fundamental.
32:52 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_03]: almost a kthulu level in comprehensive ability of this entity, right?
32:59 --> 33:06 [SPEAKER_03]: The dead lights, like there's this whole thing in the book of like the true essence of it is almost uncomprehensible, right?
33:07 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I really hope they don't go like,
33:10 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Look, do I want to see it's a rival in our, you know, in dairy?
33:14 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, of course I do, but also I feel a little bit like watch which you wish for.
33:18 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I probably, it's probably better to let the mystery be as the, you know, theme song from the leftovers kept saying, right?
33:27 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
33:28 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_03]: You do talk to me with me there.
33:31 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that the,
33:33 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, like, you know, like I said at the opening, I'm only just now actually starting the novel, but I do actually know a lot about it because it's just one of those things you absorb, you know, from being a fan of the movies and hearing comparisons.
33:47 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I know that the movies left this stuff out.
33:52 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, it was like, let's just mostly shy away from the cosmic stuff.
33:55 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They put a bit in part two, but I think in part two, that is one of the things that somewhat weakened it because they didn't explain it enough.
34:03 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So I am one who tends to be more like if you have interesting mythology explaining it to us because I enjoy that part I understand other people shy away, but regardless, there definitely needs to be a balanced struck and I think they lean too far away from it in the movies so I'm glad
34:24 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_01]: with quotes like this and also with the fact that the turtles keep popping up in the first episode, it assures me that they are going to lean into it a bit more.
34:36 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think when we talk about the turtle, I think that's an example of something that I can sort of quote, spoil that doesn't matter, but it's a great example.
34:45 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Like if we get the backstory for the turtle, this thing is gonna be, oh my God, that's awful.
34:51 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_03]: But even having read all of the dark tower, like I know just enough about the turtle to be so fascinated by the concept of the turtle, but I want more and that's probably better
35:05 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Biopic, they make, you know, with Timothy Schallemay playing the turtle, right?
35:10 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I know every single thing about the turtle, right?
35:13 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And
35:14 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I, look, does it startle seeing in this biopic?
35:18 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, 100%.
35:19 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Would I read Steven King, if Steven King had written a Pennywise book that explained every single minute of Pennywise's life, would I read that?
35:29 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Of course, I would read that, but we're probably, I feel like I'm better off without it.
35:34 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, I think it's one of those scenarios.
35:35 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I want to know, but the wanting to know is part of the fun, and I think just the glimpse
35:44 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_03]: not to keep bringing up the dark tower, but by the dark tower things get so crazy, the cosmology is so exploded that you, you know so much, but you just, immensely have this feeling like I still don't know enough, and I think that's, there's beauty in that, right?
36:01 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I think the best fantasy worlds, which this is really,
36:06 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_03]: leave a lot of room that, you know, if this were Star Wars, other people would start making films in this universe, right?
36:14 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And stuff like that.
36:15 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just kind of endlessly full.
36:17 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And I love that.
36:17 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I really do think,
36:21 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_03]: uh, plundering the interludes, which is there's a librarian character doing research about it.
36:27 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_03]: That's fundamentally without spoiling.
36:28 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what, he's in the, one of the, one of the kids grows up.
36:32 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Mike.
36:32 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Mike canlen grows up to be the live town librarian, and he's the only one in chapter two.
36:37 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_03]: People may remember he's the only one who still remembers that this happened because he stayed in dairy, right?
36:42 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_03]: And we can maybe talk about why later.
36:44 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_03]: But
36:45 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_03]: He does research and there's little interludes, I mentioned Watchman kind of in the same way that Watchman has these interludes in the graphic novel where they're not even graphic novels.
36:54 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_03]: They're just like pros and like news articles explaining the history of it.
36:59 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that this show is going to explain and make those things real some of them.
37:03 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_03]: But if they go more than that, you know, why it is here and let's ruin it and over it's like, I really hope that's a joke.
37:11 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_03]: That's all I'm saying.
37:11 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And I know I'm taking like half our heart podcast talking about this point, but I hope it's a joke.
37:19 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I do think it is, I think it's kind of somebody who's doing a backstory for a mythical and mysterious character, basically nodding to the fact that that is what people fear, right?
37:31 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's what I would really does, and I think it's my worst fear, yeah, my it encounter is Pennywise being spoiled, that's so funny, no, no, it would be aliens, definitely aliens,
37:48 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, so the first episode, the pilot, which we're discussing today, was written by Jason Fuchs, directed by Andy Musketty, and Musketty is directing at least the first four episodes so far, and Fuchs wrote this episode, the finale, and two others in collaboration with others.
38:05 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So this is gonna be the team we're with for the long haul.
38:09 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And so I'm glad we at least are with that.
38:12 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_04]: And I enjoy, I don't know about YouTube, but I do enjoy when there's continuity
38:18 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and continuity from the film.
38:20 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So these are people who are just very, especially enemy sketchy.
38:24 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He's very invested in this story.
38:27 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He and his sister.
38:28 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
38:29 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
38:29 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we've done our intro.
38:31 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_04]: We're 40 minutes in.
38:32 --> 38:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So let's go and take a break.
38:35 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_04]: And we'll come back and recap the episode.
38:55 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Before we recap the episode, can I just say one clarifying thing?
38:58 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I feel like I've been talking about the dark tower without explaining why.
39:01 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I keep talking about the dark tower for the uninitiated, Stephen King novels almost all of them take place in the same continuity.
39:11 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And that includes anything from a vampire novel like Salem's lot to it, to, um,
39:18 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_03]: The Shawshank Redemption short story, read a Hayworth in the Shawshank Redemption, which has zero supernatural elements, but happens in a prison that happens to be up in Maine, near a lot of the other interactions.
39:29 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_03]: We know Stephen King.
39:31 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We saw in the trailer a bus that said Shawshank Redemption on the side, or she would not redemption Shawshank prison.
39:37 --> 39:46 [SPEAKER_03]: So the reason I keep mentioning Dark Tower is, because Dark Tower is this sort of magnum opus of Stephen King in the sense that he wrote it,
39:46 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_03]: starting in the 70s all the way until 2000s when he almost died in a car accident and he went oh my gosh, I have to finish this and so we pumped out the last couple novels and the reason I mentioned it is because it kind of is the hinge point that the cosmology revolves around so it's kind of a fantasy western in terms of its vibe but it's multi it's interdimensional travel kind of
40:14 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_03]: multiverse stuff.
40:15 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's not that the story of the dark tower has anything to do with it.
40:19 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_03]: It's that the dark tower is the proof that this is all one continuity.
40:25 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
40:25 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So you can kind of intersect in the dark tower.
40:28 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_03]: You intersect with it.
40:30 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_03]: You intersect with Salem's lot.
40:32 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_03]: You intersect with so many of the different properties.
40:36 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, sometimes just through easter eggs, sometimes with actual character overlap.
40:40 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I just want to put that up because I sort of have been referring to it as if people knew that.
40:45 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And there's zero reason to think people know that.
40:49 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_04]: That's a fair clarification and I appreciate it.
40:51 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm wondering if they're leading to a dark tower series on HBO.
40:57 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_01]: to, you know, we know that Mike Flanagan, the Stephen King whisper is working on something in that sphere, so.
41:06 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Is it for one or brother's HBO?
41:10 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, why is it for, I feel like it was for Prime, but I have to look that up.
41:16 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I hope it's for HBO.
41:18 --> 41:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it would just be nice if it all tied in together, you know.
41:23 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And I happen to be a fan of the Flanagan King adaptations.
41:28 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Even some of them, I are films I haven't read the book of, but I just enjoy his or style.
41:33 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I also like his, you know, house on haunted hill, star hot, what it what is it?
41:37 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_03]: House hunting on Hillhouse, I'm trying to remember which one it is.
41:40 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_03]: They all have, there's a few different adaptations.
41:41 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the haunting of Hillhouse, I think it's the best one.
41:44 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That's strong.
41:45 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But also the fall of the House of Usher was a great one.
41:49 --> 41:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That was which is not Stephen King, but or nor is not a haunting appeal.
41:52 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Right sure, but cool, cool stuff.
41:55 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
41:56 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm prime.
41:58 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:59 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, see if it gets canceled through seasons.
42:01 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And if that's a show that you a thing that probably has to be a show, it can't be a film or a series of films.
42:07 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_03]: We saw it happen when they did the film a decade or so ago.
42:10 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Anyways, we can get back to the episode.
42:15 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's get into the main episode.
42:17 --> 42:20 [SPEAKER_04]: So the first section, goodbye, Mattie.
42:20 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Alicia, do you want to read the recap?
42:23 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, in 1962, Maddie Clements gets caught sneaking into a movie and escapes with the help of Ronnie Grogan.
42:32 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_01]: He tries to hitchhike away from Dairy and is picked up by a seemingly perfect nuclear family who promises to take him to Portland.
42:40 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_01]: The family's actions continue to get stranger and scarier until the mother gives violent birth to a demonic flying baby.
42:47 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_01]: The baby attacks Maddie and the family laughs as the car arrives back in Dairy.
42:54 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, when you write it down, it is a really close screen.
43:00 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:02 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're a Stephen King.
43:04 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Mark, your thoughts on the scene.
43:05 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think the setup is awesome.
43:07 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's classic, you know, kids versus the town kind of set up that the part of the situation is that the adults, there's just like,
43:20 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_03]: atrocities happening and the adults kind of are ignoring it.
43:23 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And this kid, whatever is going on in Matt's life.
43:27 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_03]: he doesn't have anybody there for him and I think or Maddie's life.
43:31 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a really nice set up.
43:33 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I think it goes a little too over the top.
43:39 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_03]: My issues with it actually a lot of it has more to do with a fan of the story because I'm kind of like just expecting the CG to be a little over the top.
43:49 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if we want to
43:50 --> 43:57 [SPEAKER_03]: If I, you want me to get into it, I feel like I'm, I'm starting off the podcast sounding pretty negative, but I really enjoy it almost everything else in this episode.
43:58 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_03]: It just has implications for the, uh, the characters that I'm confused by and we can talk through, but, but we can come back to that after everybody's sort of said their takes about this, um, set up at least you seem to really like, like, the opening.
44:14 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for me, it's a strong support.
44:16 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, as I said, I'm only here a few chapters into the book, so as far as the further implications it has, I'm not really up on that.
44:25 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So I suppose maybe that gives me less reason to object, but I just really like the atmosphere that it creates and where it just starts
44:41 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And then just slowly gets weirder and weirder until you're like this is and then you realize and just being trapped in the car It's this cage and you're trapped inside the cage with the monsters and
44:56 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Just at what point it it's like we were just talking about barbarian and about so also Bill Skarskard And about how the opening part of barbarian is all about listening to the red flags and here It's it's yeah, with a Pennywise scary.
45:13 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It is like red flag like that's not right no way that's and you know, and then suddenly There's the dawning horror and it's too late
45:23 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And presumably, I mean, you might know differently, but at this point, it looks like Maddie's dead.
45:29 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, have either of you been in a situation where somebody was flirting with you by rubbing raw liver on your face?
45:36 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Cause that's when it started to get weird.
45:38 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a red flag.
45:39 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say red flag.
45:40 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say red flag, yeah.
45:42 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, literally.
45:43 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Red.
45:44 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
45:46 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_03]: John was, before I trash it more, John, what do you think about the Zobinning?
45:51 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I thought it was good.
45:53 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_04]: I was a little like, okay, we're redoing Georgie.
45:55 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_04]: We got the one kid going missing, but you know, it's it's deeper than that, right.
45:59 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Like we have, you know, I think somebody said it's it's a normal situation and I will say it's a shocking how much more common hitchhiking was back then.
46:08 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And I remember my grandpa told me, yeah, you know, and I got whatever time I got home from the Navy on leave, I was just hitchhiking.
46:13 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, what are you talking about?
46:15 --> 46:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Like what I was just getting to strangers cars all the time.
46:18 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember my father would pick up hitchhikers while I was there a lot.
46:22 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
46:23 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of funny too because there was almost a vibe of like, oh, where are you going?
46:29 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, okay, well, I guess this is my family now.
46:31 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_03]: There was almost a vibe of them being just like, well, come with us, you're with us now, which is really wild and obviously that's part of it.
46:38 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not real.
46:40 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there's two sides of that.
46:42 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_04]: One is like, okay, it's a little suspicious
46:49 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_04]: when we ask you where you live, you're like, just take me out of dairy.
46:51 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, no, you go to the authorities after that.
46:54 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, you need the kid to tell a protective services.
46:58 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Especially the kid has, sorry, the physical abuse has the pacifier.
47:01 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what's the pacifier?
47:03 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_04]: What do we think?
47:04 --> 47:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Just a coping, just a soothing thing.
47:06 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Self-saving, yeah.
47:07 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a soothing thing.
47:08 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, I don't know.
47:09 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't alive in 1962.
47:11 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But I presume I don't know if child protective services
47:18 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that was my second point is that we as a nation at least did not really confront the reality of child abuse until like the 80s and I do think that it's possible in 1962 that people are like.
47:33 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's just get the kid out of here, you know, there's there's there's a there's two levels to it.
47:38 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_04]: There's the the current thing of like, oh my god, I got to get this kid to, you know, protective services, but also the level of like, hey, this is the 60s is the different world and things are a little less regulated right things are a little less, uh,
47:56 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_04]: There's fewer proper channels you're going through.
47:58 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Also like, you don't have a cell phone, you know, things things are just so different Where today you could just call an Uber or you can call, you know, anybody Whereas here he has got a rely on whoever sees his finger pointing in the direction he wants to go
48:15 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, but anyway, I didn't I did enjoy the scene.
48:18 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I kind of agree with Mark the CGI was like less than great, but The family itself I thought all acted very well.
48:27 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Like they they were all very subtle.
48:29 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_04]: They're slow descent into madness, and that's that's the penny-wise of it all So that's what I want to ask about and I'm not
48:38 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not that I don't like it, it's just that I'm confused and worry that it's just doesn't make sense and we're going to be a little too loose because whatever, I'm not keeping them to the continuity of the novel, right?
48:51 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not keeping them to the canon of the novel, but I feel like I want to keep them to the canon of the films, right?
48:58 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I, they're telling me that I should be doing that, right?
49:01 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So what happened here?
49:04 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Tell me what actually happened here.
49:09 --> 49:10 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean in what regard?
49:10 --> 49:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Where do you see, where do you see there?
49:13 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: What happened to Maddie?
49:14 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Tell me, like, we don't, yeah, we don't see him die, but like, let's presume Maddie died, which we probably could assume, but maybe maybe not.
49:21 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_03]: We didn't see a body.
49:23 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_03]: What happened?
49:25 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it could have been that he crawled in some, to him it looked like he got into a car but it could have been like crawled into a tree trunk or who knows a doghouse or whatever and Pennywise messed with him and killed him.
49:42 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So because I think this is, this is, I guess the question in the issue is like,
49:47 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_03]: This isn't me trying to come up with rules for the magic system or anything like we're playing tabletop RPG, but Pennywise can do illusions and Pennywise can change form.
49:58 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And he does that or it does that based on your fears, right?
50:02 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So A, like, does this have what does this have to do with, is this somehow relevant to Matti's worst fears?
50:10 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's a little weird, but like I guess we could say, okay, a nuclear family, that's bad is Matti's worst fear.
50:17 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so because that's how Pennywise gets you, right?
50:19 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_03]: He feeds.
50:20 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
50:20 --> 50:46 [SPEAKER_03]: the the term in the novel is fear salts the meat so like if Pennywise is going to eat you it's better if it's a kid and it's better if the person is really afraid so he that's why he transforms into all the kids in the films like scary the thing they're most afraid of right so let's just take Mattie is afraid of a nuclear family gone wrong
50:47 --> 51:02 [SPEAKER_03]: did Pennywise create a car that is an entire illusion and elusively transport him driving through this it like this doesn't really fit with what but that doesn't we haven't seen any exhibition of because
51:03 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Where is Maddie's body, right?
51:05 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like when Beverly in it part chapter two, it's like when she, you know, and this is also from the book and stuff, she goes into her old house and she thinks she's had this whole interaction with this woman there and her dad.
51:21 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, Kirch and she's in some of those outside the house and looks back and the house was this burnt down border Yeah, so she obviously wasn't this was a full illusion that she was in writing So I think this is the same level as that more or less.
51:37 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I guess to me.
51:38 --> 51:48 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just way further level like which thing is Pennywise is Pennywise like okay sure Pennywise maybe can split into four people plus a demonic baby, but
51:48 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And a car is Pennywise a car driving around or is he sitting cowering in the corner like I think that's the thing.
51:55 --> 52:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Pennywise was the apartment in the illusion with Beverly that I was just talking about either.
52:00 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's just like got you know to put it in Marvel terms.
52:03 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got Scarlett Witch powers.
52:06 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so make people see things.
52:08 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So she, Bev was in an apartment think an
52:15 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess it's just, this is an expansion, put it this way, because it's an illusion, but this, this is just the level of illusion that it's, I think it's really just the fact that they're driving around town and that that probably, I guess I just want to know, did that actually happen or was, as you said.
52:32 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I buy it more if Maddie crawled into a tree trunk and is wholeucing it not hallucinating, but having an illusion of this entire experience, or is there actually a person, right?
52:43 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Because we see with like Henry Bauer as the bully characters, there are people that are doing doing Pennywise's bidding, like is there a man driving around this car and Pennywise, like I guess it's just
52:56 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Without that, it's just a little, it makes me nervous that they're just sort of stretching it.
53:02 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I hope that you're right, that we can just say this, this just counts as an illusion.
53:06 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, and this is just an order of magnitude more complicated than what Beverly was hallucinating in it chapter two.
53:17 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I just want, if this is a story about explaining Pennywise, let's keep it sort of,
53:24 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_03]: manageable in, don't over-explain into ways that then contradict other things.
53:30 --> 53:31 [SPEAKER_03]: That's, I guess, my concern.
53:31 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And the rest of the day, I followed on that path.
53:33 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_03]: It was totally tied to this moment.
53:35 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't see it as any different in magnitude from the whole Beverly apartment experience, like it just, you know, was just about manifesting.
53:43 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it wasn't like they were driving past anything interesting, either.
53:47 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just dark.
53:49 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_01]: would, you know, rode at night.
53:52 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't a complicated illusion overall.
53:55 --> 54:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think I can tell you and I are definitely going to come at this question of them explaining things from different angles.
54:04 --> 54:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So that should be interesting for listeners.
54:06 --> 54:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think maybe it's a filmmaking thing also like that scene you mentioned in it chapter two ends with or something like ends with her turning around and realizing what she was in.
54:17 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's just like if I, and obviously we don't see what happened to Maddie until we see him later in the film, right, which, you know, it isn't him, obviously, in the regular sense, in the film when I mean in the theater, right, so maybe it's just sort of like I, as a viewer needed some kind of because it was breaking what I thought was the capabilities of the monster, some kind of reassurance that, oh, it's just an illusion, it's like, or like,
54:42 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_03]: No, man, Pennywise can turn into a car and like maybe I can buy that like but I guess that's that's something that maybe you're exactly right that is just a difference in It again not harping on the novel as much as like what they've set up in the other films.
54:58 --> 55:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, like I said after this point everything felt pretty
55:05 --> 55:22 [SPEAKER_03]: tight to what they've established this right this monster can do and we're just assuming babies and nuclear families that are creepy are something relevant to Mattie's experience that would cause him
55:23 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, he has telltale signs of interviews to family or something and the greatest fear is not a father figure or like a like a mean or, you know, violent father that that we would have with some other characters.
55:37 --> 55:44 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's an interesting change even on that I read it as
55:44 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_04]: his fear is finally escaping but he didn't really escape interesting right and and he finally felt the sense of safety for a minute you could see him have the sigh of relief as he leans against the window and he's just you know oh my god I'm finally getting out of dairy uh and by the way guys probably seeing some things I don't think it's limited to the abuse I think that they were suggesting that he's had an encounter with Pennywise before uh
56:11 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... because he goes to get me out of dairy right anywhere out of dairy uh... and so i i think it's just that pennywise rips that relief away from him rips that safety away from him that's his fear it's in there also implications at pennywise kind of because her a lot of abuse of parents and dairy and and i feel like there are implications that pennywise kind of influences the adults to be more corrupt and abusive as well i don't know enough but i could see it
56:39 --> 56:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I think at the very least, Pennywise, the influence of Pennywise on dairy is that people turn a blind eye to things, right?
56:46 --> 56:59 [SPEAKER_03]: There's entire murders and things like that, that kind of like, we see it, the kids are looking through the microfiche and like learning the details of this murder, but this isn't just
56:59 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_03]: already apparent on everybody's mind.
57:01 --> 57:02 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like everybody's talking about it, right?
57:02 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_03]: It gets reported on and forgotten.
57:04 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I think there is malevolent influence that that Pennywise has on people, especially the adults, but I think the turning a blind eye to it is and the acceptance of it is even the most striking difference.
57:18 --> 57:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And that is an effect that you
57:29 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_04]: right yeah i mean to me i guess penny wise and it it's just a soft magic system it always appeared to me from the movies i never were the book and i was not really bothered by the parameters of this hobby i was just like okay that was spooky the whole universe is a soft magic system hundred percent the all the Stephen King verse for sure
57:50 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to talk about channeling capacity, like the Wheel of Types.
57:53 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah, ranking them.
57:54 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's right.
57:55 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_04]: What power level is Pennywise?
57:57 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
57:58 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Up.
57:58 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Up.
57:58 --> 57:59 [SPEAKER_04]: 17.
58:00 --> 58:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
58:00 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
58:01 --> 58:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Somewhere between Cadswain and... Yeah.
58:05 --> 58:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Rest in peace.
58:07 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
58:07 --> 58:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
58:09 --> 58:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Someday we'll see Cadswain on screen.
58:11 --> 58:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Wheel of Time.
58:12 --> 58:13 [SPEAKER_01]: SaveWat.com.
58:16 --> 58:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to let you live in that dilulele lad Alisha alone.
58:20 --> 58:21 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's go to the military base.
58:21 --> 58:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Mark, tell me what happened there.
58:24 --> 58:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Former Slater, Major Leroy-Handland, arrives at the Dairy Air Force Base to begin testing B52 bombers alongside his friend, Captain Pauli Russo.
58:33 --> 58:37 [SPEAKER_03]: While most of his welcome is warm, one soldier is outwardly racist towards him.
58:37 --> 58:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Thankfully, General Frances, Frances Shaw disciplines the racist soldier, whose name is Masters, I believe, and promised his handlin' that there will be no tolerance for that behavior.
58:49 --> 58:56 [SPEAKER_03]: That night, he's attacked by a team of masked men demanding he provide the details for the B-52 he's testing.
58:56 --> 59:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Pauli Burst through the door, giving Hamlin an opening and allowing them to send away the attackers.
59:03 --> 59:06 [SPEAKER_04]: So, I have some issues with this seed.
59:06 --> 59:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, all right, you got attacked.
59:09 --> 59:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I understand that you were getting overpowered.
59:11 --> 59:15 [SPEAKER_04]: But like, why didn't you raise the alarm afterward?
59:15 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you, you just let them walk away.
59:17 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I understand you couldn't fight them all, you know, to submission yourself.
59:21 --> 59:26 [SPEAKER_04]: But like, you don't go and like, there's gotta be an alarm system here, right?
59:26 --> 59:27 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a military base.
59:29 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
59:30 --> 59:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it depends who is in on it, presumably someone who can disable that.
59:36 --> 59:38 [SPEAKER_04]: But they don't even try, right?
59:38 --> 59:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you didn't show me that.
59:39 --> 59:42 [SPEAKER_04]: They just sit there and they're like, oh, that was crazy, huh?
59:42 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And they like chuckle about it.
59:43 --> 59:44 [SPEAKER_04]: And you're like, huh?
59:45 --> 59:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Has it posted this as deeply concerning?
59:47 --> 59:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's go try everybody.
59:48 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that is interesting.
59:51 --> 59:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe that's magic, right?
59:52 --> 59:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you're already forgetting about it.
59:55 --> 59:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
59:55 --> 59:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true too.
59:56 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_01]: That could have to do with it.
59:58 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, and I also wonder if it has to do with those implications that there are some sort of mysterious activities.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that there is a part of the base where, uh, and now I got really fascinated by the driver.
01:00:13 --> 01:00:26 [SPEAKER_01]: They just silently show this, uh, so this other black man who's a driver who is given the looks of like, um, like there's stuff you need to know, and so you know he's going to tell stuff.
01:00:26 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I had to look up who is the driver and it's Dick Haloran speaking of water lap.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So do you have to do the calorie?
01:00:34 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I did not know that no that.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So I thought about saying maybe we shouldn't say this, but I think it's in the trailer basically.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:00:42 --> 01:00:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, he's credited also.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
01:00:46 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Dick Caler and of course, to see I know this one because I actually don't know if it's right.
01:00:51 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_04]: He is, he is the, I believe he was the chef at, at, at the, overlapped, and he, he's the one who teaches, man, it's been a while still on the show.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:04 [SPEAKER_04]: He teaches the kid, Dan about shining.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:06 [SPEAKER_04]: He teaches Danny.
01:01:06 --> 01:01:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he teaches Danny a bit.
01:01:07 --> 01:01:08 [SPEAKER_04]: What shining is?
01:01:09 --> 01:01:18 [SPEAKER_03]: which is like a lot of psychic powers basically so he ends up in Colorado at a point later than this.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember when the shining takes place 70s maybe.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:24 [SPEAKER_03]: That's fascinating.
01:01:24 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_03]: So like are those looks about oh you don't even know this place is crazy or are those looks like I'm psychically reading the people here and that's what's crazy right?
01:01:33 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Because he has
01:01:36 --> 01:01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when when this mysterious place comes up where I forget exactly what they say, but sort of like don't worry about what's going on behind door number two.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:50 [SPEAKER_01]: That's when I first noticed he gives a look like, hmm, yeah, do worry about that actually.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, and I do wonder.
01:01:53 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_04]: at the same time he does he he gives hand in the look right after the racist interaction right right you have to you can read it two ways you can read it as I am a fellow black service member and I I'm like this is the way it is but you know what I mean like he he's trying to warn him like I first before I knew I didn't know it was declared in the first time I watched it
01:02:17 --> 01:02:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, and then I, when I was researching a show, I was like, oh, it is declare.
01:02:21 --> 01:02:31 [SPEAKER_04]: But, um, for me, I thought it was him warning a handling that the general might seem like he's fighting the racism, but he's not really, you know, like, he's actually in on it.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:39 [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, but no, I, I think you could read it two ways that way, or, hey, some shits going down here, supernaturally.
01:02:40 --> 01:02:47 [SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm, can't be both, but that also would explain the, you know, why they don't really do much about it.
01:02:47 --> 01:02:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:02:48 --> 01:03:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is really interesting to me because like, a lot of the elements here, we have to be super wait and see because I, I could be leave because of who Dick Caleran is, and we know that he has magical powers from the film The Shining and the, or rather the book The Shining.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow, a chapter in his life and it just doesn't matter, or you can be instrumental in this and really it's not clear, you know, because this, you know, the, the other element is this is something that I can.
01:03:23 --> 01:03:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I think a thread from one of the novel interludes because one of them soldiers are an aspect to the backstory, right?
01:03:33 --> 01:03:42 [SPEAKER_03]: So I already think in my head from reading the book, like, okay, I have some ideas of where this is going, but that's just the librarian, Mike.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:44 [SPEAKER_03]: reading an article and there's no mention.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and there was the driver who was the psychic decalron.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So like we don't know, it could be completely cohesive with the canon of the novel.
01:03:51 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_03]: We just don't have any of the information.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Although the the dates are shifted, right?
01:03:56 --> 01:04:00 [SPEAKER_03]: And the other element that's wait and see is this mysterious,
01:04:00 --> 01:04:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, are they doing secret experiments?
01:04:02 --> 01:04:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, is this another stranger thing'sification thing?
01:04:05 --> 01:04:09 [SPEAKER_03]: We're like, this is the, what do they call?
01:04:09 --> 01:04:15 [SPEAKER_03]: The, what's the organization that's like set up shop, studying the, the upside down.
01:04:15 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember, but like, oh, is just something like that.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Or is this also just set dressing and not an Easter egg, but just sort of like, doesn't matter because there's the larger thing that's going on
01:04:30 --> 01:04:52 [SPEAKER_03]: doesn't really matter so it's it's it's really interesting to kind of watch that and to see if these things are just kind of expanding the world for the sake of it or if they end up important or hear me out mk itra well that's nice that improvisation was that prepared I was in the improvisation I'm off the cuff here
01:04:53 --> 01:04:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so who do we think when they're the three masked guys who attacked him?
01:05:00 --> 01:05:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, one of them didn't participate and seems more reluctant.
01:05:07 --> 01:05:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we think that that someone we've already seen without a mask on?
01:05:12 --> 01:05:13 [SPEAKER_04]: It's Dick Haloran.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Now it's probably not, but, uh, I don't know.
01:05:21 --> 01:05:22 [SPEAKER_04]: I
01:05:23 --> 01:05:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I guess a question is, how did Paul know how to come in?
01:05:26 --> 01:05:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Was he did he just hear it?
01:05:28 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Did he, you know, does he have the, you know, is he the next room over and he just heard a commotion?
01:05:33 --> 01:05:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Or was he in on it?
01:05:36 --> 01:05:38 [SPEAKER_04]: And he's trying to gain trust.
01:05:39 --> 01:06:09 [SPEAKER_03]: with not getting into spoilers because this is fundamentally like I don't know anything about this from from the novel, but I do I do have innately a distrust for the general because one thing that just comes up in a lot of king novels that involve the fifties in the sixties, you know, so many things are set in main right he's he's from banger and so darey is kind of like a a fictionalized demonic version of banger main
01:06:09 --> 01:06:26 [SPEAKER_03]: this idea that keeps showing up in King work that is yeah we don't have segregation up here but there's racist up here and and that happens in the it novel with Mike that the the kid and then you know as he grows up it happens in the films it's alluded to not as much but I
01:06:26 --> 01:06:53 [SPEAKER_03]: don't think I'm guessing this show is not going in the direction of yeah there's this one racist and he was beaten down by the the upstanding general and so the right just white savior that's right I cannot help but think I'm not saying general shot is one of the masked guys but I can't help but wonder these aren't Russian spies trying to like get B 52 this is like an intimidation tactic try to get him to like
01:06:53 --> 01:07:17 [SPEAKER_03]: spill the beans and then they can say look you betrayed our confidence you know you and let's let's court Marshall and like I don't know any of that as this is none of that a spoiler from reading it but I feel like it's it's an inside job kind of thing I just think this is that kind of story it's not stranger things intrigue about what's going on behind that base I don't think I think that's all
01:07:17 --> 01:07:34 [SPEAKER_03]: setting up a mystery that's really going to be a story about dairy and the brokenness of the town of the culturally right and and of you know Americans society in the 60s but I don't know no I think you're absolutely right I
01:07:35 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_04]: For me, I agree with you.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:43 [SPEAKER_04]: It would be disappointing if that was just like a morality play on racism for like three minutes, right?
01:07:44 --> 01:07:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So I would like it to be something bigger than that.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I would like them to actually explore that theme if they're going to bring it in instead of just
01:07:54 --> 01:08:01 [SPEAKER_04]: you know having a one off like you say like the white savior comes in and is like well no he's disappointed and we don't tolerate that here.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't I'm I two very suspicious of the general but I almost want it to not be the general because that's the most obvious guy right that's the most obvious
01:08:15 --> 01:08:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's weird, though, because the general, let's say it's not the general, because it's too obvious from a filmmaking perspective.
01:08:22 --> 01:08:42 [SPEAKER_03]: The theme, and I'm curious if this actually literally is in dairy or outside of dairy, the theme of adults and authority figures ignoring villainous activity and ignoring bad things is not consistent with the general intervening, very much intervening on behalf of this soldier,
01:08:42 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's a little weird, right?
01:08:44 --> 01:08:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, what is he the one?
01:08:46 --> 01:09:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Not that there's no good adults in Dairy, but it definitely breaks the trend to have this sort of like, goodly righteous defender of justice amongst his subordinates, much more in keeping with the town that there would be rampant racism that is ignored by the superior officers.
01:09:09 --> 01:09:12 [SPEAKER_03]: So is that a tell also?
01:09:12 --> 01:09:25 [SPEAKER_03]: that this is somehow different or is this two miles outside the town borders and so Pennywise has no control like I don't know something to question I mean to me I would say
01:09:26 --> 01:09:48 [SPEAKER_04]: the way I've understood Pennywise is a magic to work is sure to let you overlook things like overlook signs of things like you could ignore Maddie's bruises but if the child abuse were happening in front of you you wouldn't be able to ignore it right you'd say hey stop that and stop the person right they still investigate a crime they still write someone in jail then they just all forget about it moments later
01:09:48 --> 01:09:51 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, the news story comes out and then over time you forget about it.
01:09:51 --> 01:09:56 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think it's still fine if you see it and he goes, hey, that's not cool.
01:09:57 --> 01:10:00 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, so I guess we'll see I got my eye on the general.
01:10:00 --> 01:10:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Obviously we have to keep an eye on the guy who actually made the racist comments and did he make a comment or did he kind of just stay silent.
01:10:09 --> 01:10:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Be on him in real racist withholding of ill salute.
01:10:12 --> 01:10:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Can we before we move on just like take a nod to who Lee Roy Hamlin might be so my canlin is the one of the losers and the one who grows up to be the librarian who in my opinion is is not given enough in the films like he he's a he's not one of the most
01:10:28 --> 01:10:47 [SPEAKER_03]: active characters in the novel in terms of doing stuff, but he is kind of the framing device in a lot of ways because he's the librarian and I feel like they'd left too much of that off in the films because they had to cater to the action and the big set pieces, so it's really cool to see presumably a member of the family.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And no, we know it's his grandfather.
01:10:49 --> 01:10:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Grandfather, OK, right in the film.
01:10:51 --> 01:10:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
01:10:52 --> 01:10:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So because there's a kid, he has a kid, right?
01:10:54 --> 01:10:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's got to be Mike's dad or something, maybe.
01:10:57 --> 01:11:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Isn't there a kid of this of Leroy's that appears?
01:11:03 --> 01:11:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Or it is referred to or something.
01:11:05 --> 01:11:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to remember.
01:11:05 --> 01:11:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And then in 20, something years, he'll grow up and have his own kid.
01:11:08 --> 01:11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
01:11:09 --> 01:11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:11:09 --> 01:11:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He said that his family is coming, but I don't think we haven't met.
01:11:12 --> 01:11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
01:11:13 --> 01:11:16 [SPEAKER_03]: OK, so he just mentioned them.
01:11:18 --> 01:11:26 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, is there a sum, you know, they have to be careful, because there's another family connection that we'll talk about in another scene.
01:11:26 --> 01:11:27 [SPEAKER_03]: But...
01:11:28 --> 01:11:33 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, is there some horrific traumatic event that happened to Mike Hamlin's grandfather?
01:11:34 --> 01:11:36 [SPEAKER_03]: That just never gets mentioned to me entire its story.
01:11:37 --> 01:11:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, yeah, there's monsters.
01:11:38 --> 01:11:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, by the way, my grandfather was killed by a monster.
01:11:40 --> 01:11:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So whatever happens, either, isn't something that would register with the family or is, of course, forgotten and swept under the rug, right?
01:11:48 --> 01:11:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever happens at the end of this plot line.
01:11:53 --> 01:11:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, yeah, I am.
01:11:56 --> 01:11:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in for all the connections.
01:11:58 --> 01:11:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:11:58 --> 01:11:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Show me where my came from.
01:12:01 --> 01:12:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe not directly.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, when I'm mom and dad really love each other.
01:12:04 --> 01:12:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, thank you.
01:12:05 --> 01:12:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you, Bart.
01:12:06 --> 01:12:07 [SPEAKER_04]: I knew it was gonna get there.
01:12:07 --> 01:12:09 [SPEAKER_04]: As soon as I freeze it that way, I was like, oh, Mark's gonna let it.
01:12:09 --> 01:12:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Harp it on that.
01:12:11 --> 01:12:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, documented, prude, John, right?
01:12:13 --> 01:12:15 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, we're gonna take a quick break.
01:12:15 --> 01:12:17 [SPEAKER_04]: When we get back, we'll talk about the new Losers Club.
01:12:35 --> 01:12:44 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, Teddy, you're us, and Phil Melkin, disagree on whether they're old, reluctant friend Maddie is still alive.
01:12:45 --> 01:12:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Lily Bainbridge hears Maddie singing, you got trouble from the music man from her bathroom drain.
01:12:51 --> 01:12:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Then sees Maddie's fingers come up through the drain.
01:12:54 --> 01:12:59 [SPEAKER_04]: She confides in her friend Marge, and the two of them meet with Teddy and Phil to discuss what happened.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:09 [SPEAKER_04]: The boys don't believe Lily until Teddy, spurred by his father's lecture about his ancestors suffering in the Holocaust, is haunted by a lampshade made of faces.
01:13:10 --> 01:13:12 [SPEAKER_04]: The four kids meet up again to track down Maddie.
01:13:13 --> 01:13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: that lamp shade made of faces.
01:13:15 --> 01:13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I should have seen it coming as soon as as soon as we heard what we heard that, but good Lord, that was an effective scare visual sad thing.
01:13:26 --> 01:13:30 [SPEAKER_04]: That dad was a horrendous father.
01:13:30 --> 01:13:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Just like, I mean, your kid comes to you feeling like, like, clearly like grieving a friend.
01:13:38 --> 01:13:41 [SPEAKER_04]: And he, well, maybe he didn't read it that way.
01:13:41 --> 01:13:50 [SPEAKER_04]: He saw the comic book and just bloomed it on that, but like, he just snaps at him and gives him a hard time and then trauma dumps.
01:13:50 --> 01:13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: The parents in this book suck.
01:13:53 --> 01:13:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:13:54 --> 01:13:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:13:56 --> 01:14:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is an interesting connection to the other story, right?
01:14:03 --> 01:14:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's Teddy's family, somehow.
01:14:06 --> 01:14:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think this is one of the ones where I think the stuff with the black soldier is affected by the time shift a little bit because we're talking about the 60s as opposed to Jim Crow era, which is the 30s, which is sort of where the inspiration for that plot line would come from, but this is similar here because
01:14:24 --> 01:14:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Stanley Stan Eres, who's one of the losers.
01:14:28 --> 01:14:37 [SPEAKER_03]: People may remember he's the one that doesn't make it really into a chapter two, because he, yeah, he kills himself when he realizes that he's supposed to go back.
01:14:37 --> 01:14:38 [SPEAKER_03]: He's, he's sort of,
01:14:39 --> 01:14:47 [SPEAKER_03]: The, he's like the practical one, solutions oriented, but also fearful, more fearful than the rest of them about the monster, right?
01:14:48 --> 01:14:49 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's too much for him as an adult.
01:14:50 --> 01:15:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And Stan Euras, who is the same last name as Teddy Euras, who's the the shorter of the two kids, the one who's more sort of obviously morning, Matty, is pretty much described as the only Jewish kid in school, right?
01:15:05 --> 01:15:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And one of the only Jewish families in school.
01:15:09 --> 01:15:23 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just interesting to me the shift here because the original novel is set in a post World War II post Holocaust context where it's not said whether his family were, you know,
01:15:24 --> 01:15:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Immigrants or refugees or fleeing Eastern Europe or central Europe from the Holocaust or anything like that, but what is clear is that they're not religious like Stanley kind of barely knows anything about Judaism.
01:15:39 --> 01:15:41 [SPEAKER_03]: and at least that's in the book.
01:15:41 --> 01:15:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't remember if that comes.
01:15:43 --> 01:15:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think Stan's also kind of not given much in the film relative to the book.
01:15:48 --> 01:16:07 [SPEAKER_03]: But what's interesting here is is one of these kids Stanley's dad, Stanley's grandpa, well it's got to be Stanley's dad and probably
01:16:07 --> 01:16:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Jewish diaspora.
01:16:10 --> 01:16:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's Yiddish spoken at the table, so the implication here is that the parents may have come from Europe in a post-World War II or right before World War II kind of situation in the 30s, fleeing the Nazis or something like that.
01:16:23 --> 01:16:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And they are seemingly much more culturally Jewish, possible even religious, right, in that they're doing the Brukhado Nai, like they're saying the prayers, and so what happens there?
01:16:40 --> 01:16:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Does this family go from this scenario to having a kid who is still kind of the only Jewish kid in school who again does not know or it never brings up.
01:16:53 --> 01:16:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, my uncle was brutally ripped apart in a movie theater.
01:16:56 --> 01:16:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's, I mean, it's a pattern.
01:16:59 --> 01:17:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's what, that's an aisle, though.
01:17:02 --> 01:17:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But it makes sense to me that, you know, you do see in general younger generations tend to disassociate from especially when they're from a culture that makes them feel unique in town.
01:17:14 --> 01:17:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Although there was this thing in the second movie where there was a funeral for Stan at the temple.
01:17:23 --> 01:17:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So there was enough people in town that they had a temple.
01:17:26 --> 01:17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd struck me like it's funny they didn't invite any of his friends,
01:17:32 --> 01:17:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, right, and and I mean like Alicia said like I don't I don't really have a hard time believing that the children of religious people chose not to not raise your kids religiously But but also if your father was like a Real dick and really insist in about it.
01:17:48 --> 01:17:50 [SPEAKER_04]: You might do that out of rebellion, right?
01:17:51 --> 01:17:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And his dad does not seem like
01:17:54 --> 01:18:19 [SPEAKER_04]: a nice person and it does not seem like a nice father and then if you lost your brother in a traumatic way maybe that you know people some people respond to trauma in all different ways and some people go closer to religion and some people distance themselves from religion right they say how could my God have done this and I just I think that it's perfectly reasonable for the next generation down
01:18:19 --> 01:18:28 [SPEAKER_04]: to be, you know, less religious, maybe Stan's dad understood all the Jewish rituals, but he did not decide to Jesus, children less.
01:18:28 --> 01:18:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that I buy it.
01:18:30 --> 01:18:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, this is not me saying I don't buy it.
01:18:31 --> 01:18:33 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just, there's a story there.
01:18:33 --> 01:18:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, really?
01:18:34 --> 01:18:38 [SPEAKER_03]: To have it be Stan's family presumably because of the last name.
01:18:38 --> 01:18:44 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a story there that's really significant that we're not either not gonna know or we will know, right?
01:18:44 --> 01:18:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Because, and it's just that,
01:18:47 --> 01:18:51 [SPEAKER_03]: establishing that this is a multi-generational family in dairy.
01:18:51 --> 01:19:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that's clear and that there's multi-generational interactions with Pennywise, in some ways, or the creature Pennywise, the clown doesn't appear.
01:19:02 --> 01:19:17 [SPEAKER_03]: is is very much adding to what I think are understanding because stands parents are not big characters in the novel and the films in the same way that you see a lot of the other kids interacting with their families.
01:19:17 --> 01:19:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Eddie in particular has a a whole like trauma response with his mom, right?
01:19:21 --> 01:19:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, go ahead.
01:19:23 --> 01:19:36 [SPEAKER_01]: But if I understand this correctly, then Pennywise is essentially the town exists in a way because Pennywise kind of encouraged this thriving to have a food supply, more or less.
01:19:37 --> 01:19:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And Pennywise has been there for centuries.
01:19:41 --> 01:19:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would assume that all of the families have rich histories with Pennywise even if they couldn't fit them in that.
01:19:48 --> 01:19:49 [SPEAKER_01]: What is a 1200 page book?
01:19:50 --> 01:19:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we're going to see more connections too because we're, you know, if the show's a lot to continue, we're going to have two more cycles of Pennywise to get.
01:19:57 --> 01:19:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:19:58 --> 01:20:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Pennywise from a certain point of view is dairy, right, right, because Pennywise doesn't seem to be able to leave or at least Pennywise doesn't leave.
01:20:07 --> 01:20:22 [SPEAKER_03]: that this is sort of Pennywise's nest on some level so I think everybody generationally would I think you're exactly right I think what this shows is that that family has a long history in dairy whereas that wasn't
01:20:23 --> 01:20:32 [SPEAKER_03]: It won't, it's his Stanley's positionality as a kind of other in dairy in the same way that Mike being the only black kid in school.
01:20:33 --> 01:20:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Their positionality is unique, and this is just giving us kind of both of them really, like more.
01:20:38 --> 01:20:43 [SPEAKER_03]: No, they were not only where they part of dairy, but they might have been a part of it in previous generations.
01:20:43 --> 01:20:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And the religiosity and the change and the relation to the Holocaust, those are just things that are different because of the time period, right?
01:20:50 --> 01:20:54 [SPEAKER_03]: So like there's Stan Lee's family might have fled the Holocaust.
01:20:54 --> 01:21:08 [SPEAKER_03]: But Stanley's grandparents in the original book, his grandparents could not have because his grandparents would have been in 1912 or whatever, right, because Stanley was a kid in the 50s, whereas this looks like Stanley's dad is a kid in the 50s, right?
01:21:08 --> 01:21:18 [SPEAKER_03]: So it just changes the sort of generational relationship to the Jewish kind of experience in the United States.
01:21:18 --> 01:21:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's interesting.
01:21:18 --> 01:21:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
01:21:19 --> 01:21:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But then that means that the next season we have the generation before that that's more which you're thinking of.
01:21:25 --> 01:21:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But it does like play into what I think of this is ultimately it's a story about bigotry and it's a story about intergenerational trauma that's passed on and also how we hide from it, how we cloak ourselves from it to cope.
01:21:39 --> 01:21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, so we see in the movies, for example, they take this and I have gotten through this part of the book with the gay bashing, you know, it is about different types of bigotry.
01:21:51 --> 01:21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I know from the trailers, they are going to get more into the Native American community around this season.
01:21:58 --> 01:22:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And I do wonder, since there is mention already of the Chinese restaurant.
01:22:01 --> 01:22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking, well, yeah, maybe next season they show the first Chinese immigrants to town.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:15 [SPEAKER_01]: blurring how outsiders are not so warmly welcome to even though it's supposed to be the north, you know.
01:22:17 --> 01:22:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and you know, we don't talk enough about how, you know, the North has plenty of racist people to, you know, in internal racism, it's just manifest differently right?
01:22:25 --> 01:22:27 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a little less open, but it's there.
01:22:27 --> 01:22:28 [SPEAKER_04]: It's absolutely there.
01:22:28 --> 01:22:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, Chicago and Red Lightning go hand in hand, right?
01:22:32 --> 01:22:34 [SPEAKER_04]: So somebody needs to tell me about the turtle.
01:22:34 --> 01:22:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just want to point out, like, as Mark said, let's save the turtle deep dive for later, and I think also we should give the show a chance to explain it more, but just to point out how many times the turtle pops up, that there's like a turtle mascot at the school and the other most notable thing is that what's her face, the main girl, she gets a turtle jump from Maddie.
01:22:59 --> 01:23:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And my question is is she in a way protected, you know, she survives a few harrowing things, including where everyone dies except for her and Ronnie.
01:23:11 --> 01:23:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It is the turtle.
01:23:12 --> 01:23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Turtle, charm protector is a question lingering in the air.
01:23:15 --> 01:23:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have to get into it now, but just so people are watching for turtles.
01:23:21 --> 01:23:23 [SPEAKER_03]: The turtle is a force for good, right?
01:23:23 --> 01:23:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's
01:23:26 --> 01:23:36 [SPEAKER_03]: If they overexplain the turtle, it will be really upsetting to me kind of, because there's something even through the entire Dark Tower, there's still a mystery to some of this stuff.
01:23:36 --> 01:23:46 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, yeah, I think there is a protection element, the turtle, I'm trying to remember how much the turtle comes up in the films, it's kind of just...
01:23:46 --> 01:23:47 [SPEAKER_01]: in the film.
01:23:47 --> 01:23:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Not in two.
01:23:48 --> 01:23:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:23:48 --> 01:24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there not even references to turtles in the background and stuff like I because one thing that I noticed is like in the beginning of the book when Georgie goes down in the basement, he sees something turtle like already on the shelf and that is definitely not in either of the movies.
01:24:04 --> 01:24:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's turtle wax or something, right?
01:24:07 --> 01:24:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and at that point, you have no idea what any of that would mean, because this hadn't been flushed out at all in the 80s when he wrote this.
01:24:14 --> 01:24:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, let's come back to the turtle more later.
01:24:17 --> 01:24:25 [SPEAKER_03]: But like, yeah, I think are they going to use the charm and things like turtle related as talismans?
01:24:25 --> 01:24:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I did, I will say though that the like outward,
01:24:28 --> 01:24:43 [SPEAKER_03]: school mascot me or whatever bird the turtle thing being so broadcast was interesting because that's that's not subtle that's like oh is this school a force for good like that doesn't feel very darey main like the school is having this this this
01:24:43 --> 01:24:46 [SPEAKER_03]: you know, it's it's not that everything in the world has to be the turtle.
01:24:46 --> 01:24:51 [SPEAKER_03]: There are turtles in in in the world of Stephen King that are just creatures and stuff.
01:24:51 --> 01:24:52 [SPEAKER_03]: But it is kind of weird.
01:24:53 --> 01:24:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And if that's a very outward show of turtleness, I guess, which is a bizarre sense to say.
01:25:02 --> 01:25:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm curious.
01:25:04 --> 01:25:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm I'm turtle curious.
01:25:06 --> 01:25:08 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we'll figure out as we go along.
01:25:08 --> 01:25:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Why don't we wrap up this, uh, we've been going on a while, so let's wrap up this episode with the feeder singing Alicia, you want to read it?
01:25:15 --> 01:25:21 [SPEAKER_01]: The kids go to the library to research Maddie's disappearance with Phil bringing his little sister Suzie along.
01:25:22 --> 01:25:27 [SPEAKER_01]: The search leads them to Ronnie, who is initially against getting involved after her father was investigated.
01:25:28 --> 01:25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: However, when the kids mention Maddie's singing, Ronnie says she has heard singing from the
01:25:35 --> 01:25:42 [SPEAKER_01]: She takes them to the theater and plays the scene from the music man that Maddie was singing, the kids see Maddie on the screen and call to him.
01:25:42 --> 01:25:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He responds by blaming them for his disappearance.
01:25:45 --> 01:25:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The mutant baby then comes out of the screen and attacks the kids, killing everyone except Ronnie and Lily who holds Susie's severed hand as she
01:25:56 --> 01:25:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We're getting a new set of kids next week.
01:25:59 --> 01:26:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope I just don't want it to be like, we kill off the set of kids every week, you know?
01:26:05 --> 01:26:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think we will.
01:26:06 --> 01:26:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I've seen the next time on, I think that they're setting up this.
01:26:11 --> 01:26:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think they just picked this out, right?
01:26:13 --> 01:26:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah.
01:26:13 --> 01:26:16 [SPEAKER_04]: You think that the opening scene is the Georgie.
01:26:17 --> 01:26:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Is the Insighting Insighting.
01:26:19 --> 01:26:21 [SPEAKER_04]: It turns out that they hold all of our friends dying.
01:26:22 --> 01:26:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Georgie, the Insighting Insighting Insighting, right?
01:26:24 --> 01:26:26 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that that was the fake out.
01:26:26 --> 01:26:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, and we still have two characters obviously The I think those two characters are the losers club right.
01:26:35 --> 01:26:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's what it is We're following them and that doesn't mean they won't die next episode, but interestingly interestingly like Oftentimes the
01:26:47 --> 01:26:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Return of Pennywise, the sort of Pennywise comes back in it or it comes back in a 27-year cycle, coincides with horrific human behavior also, right?
01:26:58 --> 01:27:06 [SPEAKER_03]: So like, you mentioned it, Alicia, that the 80s return of Pennywise, which is in the,
01:27:05 --> 01:27:09 [SPEAKER_03]: in the films would be the 2010s return.
01:27:09 --> 01:27:12 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a homophobic murder basically that takes place.
01:27:12 --> 01:27:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And does that wake Pennywise up or is Pennywise waking up the thing that causes such ugly behavior?
01:27:19 --> 01:27:25 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a completely over-the-top, ridiculous, supernatural gorefest.
01:27:25 --> 01:27:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Is there a human on human violence who also thing that has either recently happened or is about to happen?
01:27:34 --> 01:27:55 [SPEAKER_03]: and so that's an interesting thing like if we think of let's say we're towards the beginning of the Pennywise cycle right now I worry that we're about to have that and that this is just the kind of start of you said the Georgie moment but yeah the the start of what's going to be a really ugly couple of years or whatever for dairy.
01:28:03 --> 01:28:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I've never seen it at all.
01:28:11 --> 01:28:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never been this trouble in yourplex city.
01:28:18 --> 01:28:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I, I, you know, that was one of the seminal musicals growing up.
01:28:22 --> 01:28:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the Simpsons episode you have to think about Monterey.
01:28:25 --> 01:28:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Monterey.
01:28:26 --> 01:28:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Monterey.
01:28:28 --> 01:28:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Never watched an episode of the Simpsons.
01:28:30 --> 01:28:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So wow, that's, uh,
01:28:31 --> 01:28:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is, I mean, it is an interesting parallel to have with this because it is about a command coming to town and kind of turning people against each other for his own benefits, so you can feed off of that in a capitalistic way.
01:28:45 --> 01:28:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, trouble is is it actually we talked about this musical in our episode uh, never mind the music about barbershop quartets, we randomly were talking about um last season.
01:28:56 --> 01:29:02 [SPEAKER_03]: The song is sort of like a cautionary tale warning your kids about the evils of playing pool, but but it's actually a hustle, right?
01:29:02 --> 01:29:03 [SPEAKER_03]: He's actually con and them all.
01:29:04 --> 01:29:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So it like I don't know if we're reading into that or if this is just sort of a nod to the
01:29:14 --> 01:29:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, we'll see trouble in River City, indeed, as they're getting ripped to shreds.
01:29:19 --> 01:29:22 [SPEAKER_03]: I will say, it wasn't clear to me who died at first.
01:29:22 --> 01:29:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I had to really think, I had to like think, wait, who just died and wasn't until the end that I realized, wait, kind of all of them, or three of them did.
01:29:31 --> 01:29:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know that at first, because you even such chaos.
01:29:34 --> 01:29:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's right.
01:29:36 --> 01:29:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you think, oh, she's safe, no.
01:29:38 --> 01:29:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, George, you wouldn't say for the original one, so that's why you're not safe.
01:29:43 --> 01:29:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like extra fear.
01:29:46 --> 01:29:50 [SPEAKER_03]: She was the what's the younger sister that's super sassy and strangest things that tags along.
01:29:50 --> 01:29:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I felt like that was an homage to kind of to her what's her name and she gets killed just the same.
01:29:56 --> 01:29:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:29:58 --> 01:30:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't I don't remember her name, but yeah, Mike's sister, right?
01:30:01 --> 01:30:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:30:03 --> 01:30:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Is it no, not Mike's sister.
01:30:06 --> 01:30:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Lucas is a little sister.
01:30:08 --> 01:30:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, Lucas is like, oh, you're right.
01:30:09 --> 01:30:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Super smart.
01:30:10 --> 01:30:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Alex, how little I remember about this.
01:30:12 --> 01:30:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:30:13 --> 01:30:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's coming back soon.
01:30:14 --> 01:30:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Gonna have to brush up.
01:30:15 --> 01:30:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't think I need to.
01:30:17 --> 01:30:20 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is an example where this felt very Muscatty.
01:30:21 --> 01:30:24 [SPEAKER_03]: It felt very like over the top CG, but I'm like roll with it.
01:30:24 --> 01:30:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it doesn't.
01:30:25 --> 01:30:29 [SPEAKER_03]: This is completely within keeping of what I feel like the set.
01:30:29 --> 01:30:34 [SPEAKER_03]: The Gore set pieces would be in the, especially the second film, you know,
01:30:34 --> 01:30:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But wait, are you saying that Erica is her name?
01:30:38 --> 01:30:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Did she die?
01:30:38 --> 01:30:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Do I not remember her dying?
01:30:40 --> 01:30:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, who's Erica?
01:30:41 --> 01:30:42 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I- Is it a little sister?
01:30:44 --> 01:30:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the thing- In Stranger Things, yeah, I think Mark is just leading to it being the character itself.
01:30:49 --> 01:30:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay, Mark.
01:30:50 --> 01:30:53 [SPEAKER_03]: There was a sassy little sister that's falling around.
01:30:54 --> 01:30:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And oh, it's kind of like Stranger Things.
01:30:55 --> 01:30:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And then she gets murdered like 20 minutes later.
01:30:57 --> 01:30:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:30:57 --> 01:30:59 [SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of.
01:30:59 --> 01:31:22 [SPEAKER_03]: they're setting up like a fuck you're almost wondering oh is there gonna be a little kid sister in the losers club this time around and then nope no because some of those kids are also evocative of you know there's the tall guy what is his name fill is kind of like got the richy kind of jokes to divide but also a little bit of Eddie Cap's Casper Act like
01:31:22 --> 01:31:26 [SPEAKER_03]: They're almost setting up these archetypes that are king archetypes and then they're dead.
01:31:26 --> 01:31:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And so we have we're left with maybe just two kids or maybe they have to get more.
01:31:33 --> 01:31:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:31:34 --> 01:31:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the the thing is we are doing a prequel and that means that Pennywise has to win.
01:31:38 --> 01:31:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
01:31:39 --> 01:31:41 [SPEAKER_04]: The kids cannot succeed in defeating Pennywise.
01:31:42 --> 01:31:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, everybody has to go to sleep.
01:31:44 --> 01:31:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It always looks like they win, but Pennywise always comes back and I don't think Pennywise has gone at the end either after part two.
01:31:54 --> 01:32:04 [SPEAKER_03]: but Pennywise does either get defeated enough to be put back to a hibernation or say sheated enough to go back to hibernation and we don't know which of those.
01:32:05 --> 01:32:10 [SPEAKER_03]: which of like in the the 1980s timeline in the films with the younger kids.
01:32:11 --> 01:32:15 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't know like how much more Pennywise would have done had they not beaten him.
01:32:15 --> 01:32:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Is it sort of moot like they might as well have done nothing or would there have been 20 more people murdered or whatever by Pennywise if they hadn't done what they did, right?
01:32:22 --> 01:32:23 [SPEAKER_03]: But they obviously didn't kill him.
01:32:23 --> 01:32:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So what happens here?
01:32:24 --> 01:32:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Similar thing.
01:32:25 --> 01:32:29 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't know how far it would
01:32:29 --> 01:32:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Like even when Mike is in his librarian in Reludes in the novel, when he's reading these previous atrocities in Dairy's history, did those atrocities end because Pennywise resulted in a bunch of murder and went back to sleep, or did those atrocities end because a bunch of 11-year-olds beat him into the sewers?
01:32:50 --> 01:32:51 [SPEAKER_03]: We have no recollection.
01:32:51 --> 01:32:54 [SPEAKER_03]: We have no sort of information on any of that.
01:32:54 --> 01:32:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's...
01:32:55 --> 01:33:21 [SPEAKER_03]: fascinating well to dig into like are these series are these seasons all going to be tribes of kids fighting Pennywise or will some of them there won't be kids at all that are involved like there's no reason that kids would necessarily fight Pennywise they're just you know his victims right but maybe that's a common sort of universal experience is that there's a group of
01:33:22 --> 01:33:27 [SPEAKER_03]: that they're telling us maybe band together and fight him back and be the reason he constantly is put back to sleep.
01:33:28 --> 01:33:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:33:29 --> 01:33:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's interesting and and we will see how deep they want to go in the show.
01:33:34 --> 01:33:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like the show.
01:33:36 --> 01:33:42 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I want to say my instinct is like, it won't be an interesting show if they don't have a loser's club type of, you know, group fighting them off.
01:33:42 --> 01:33:44 [SPEAKER_04]: But then I, I don't know.
01:33:44 --> 01:33:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, yeah, are they just going to have like interesting dairy town politics?
01:33:48 --> 01:33:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to be like, oh, that's cool how it interacts with us.
01:33:51 --> 01:33:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe you do need around where nobody helps to change it up a little bit.
01:33:58 --> 01:33:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
01:33:58 --> 01:34:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because the only way to fight it off is in a group, they established that in the film more.
01:34:04 --> 01:34:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and that relates to the really gross ending scene in the book, right?
01:34:10 --> 01:34:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, is all.
01:34:11 --> 01:34:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, should we just say what that is, so people aren't like, so people don't have to Google it.
01:34:16 --> 01:34:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:34:18 --> 01:34:18 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
01:34:18 --> 01:34:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead, Mark.
01:34:20 --> 01:34:21 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just spoiler.
01:34:21 --> 01:34:25 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's like, I just why I feel like a jerk like referring to a thing.
01:34:25 --> 01:34:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, this is not an in group out group thing.
01:34:27 --> 01:34:32 [SPEAKER_03]: People, this is just like a, I want to spare you, but basically in order to like,
01:34:33 --> 01:34:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Friendship beats love beats anyways like you have to you have to have fellowship with your people in order to and believe you can beat him to beat him That's what happens in the film one of the ways the kids in
01:34:47 --> 01:34:54 [SPEAKER_03]: in their 11-year-old selves in the book, in Stephen King's Coke-addled brain.
01:34:55 --> 01:35:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I guess we have to all have sex, and so they all have sex, and they're like literally 10 and 11 years old, and it's not super graphic, but it's graphic enough, and you're just like, even me as a 12-year-old is like, I do not need to read this.
01:35:08 --> 01:35:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And they just do.
01:35:09 --> 01:35:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And then they move on and it's kind of treated like in their experience as this sweet thing, but it still is what it is, which is 11 year olds having group sex, which is freaking weird and doesn't need to be there, but it's there.
01:35:25 --> 01:35:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And so there are other ways that that fellowship can be shown.
01:35:30 --> 01:35:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I think in the story and I hope they
01:35:34 --> 01:35:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean they deliberately omitted it from the movie, right?
01:35:37 --> 01:35:38 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm glad.
01:35:38 --> 01:35:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is Stephen King, what the fuck is wrong with you?
01:35:41 --> 01:35:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I just say that like don't don't do that guys if you're if you're right in a novel right now avoid that kind of scene Agreed worst to live by
01:35:52 --> 01:35:54 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, well, we did the episode.
01:35:54 --> 01:36:00 [SPEAKER_04]: We traumatized the listeners with the original it scene.
01:36:01 --> 01:36:02 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be back next week.
01:36:03 --> 01:36:06 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to do the outro alone, so I'm going to send everybody off here.
01:36:06 --> 01:36:09 [SPEAKER_04]: But Mark, thank you for being with us on this episode.
01:36:09 --> 01:36:13 [SPEAKER_04]: We're looking forward to hearing from you again in the season whenever you can pop in.
01:36:13 --> 01:36:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Fortunately, I at least will be back next week and we'll see Mark's availability.
01:36:17 --> 01:36:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Great, thanks.
01:36:19 --> 01:36:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Excellent.
01:36:19 --> 01:36:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't wait.
01:36:21 --> 01:36:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, looking forward to the early drop on episode two.
01:36:25 --> 01:36:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Hey everyone.
01:36:26 --> 01:36:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I have sent Alicia and Mark back to its layer to await the next coming of Pennywise.
01:36:31 --> 01:36:35 [SPEAKER_04]: But for now, we are going to do a quick outro.
01:36:35 --> 01:36:36 [SPEAKER_04]: I want to remind everyone, Mark.
01:36:37 --> 01:36:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Also host nevermind the music.
01:36:38 --> 01:36:41 [SPEAKER_04]: One of our affiliate podcasts with his co-host Nicole.
01:36:41 --> 01:36:43 [SPEAKER_04]: They talk about music and psychology together.
01:36:43 --> 01:36:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It is an amazing podcast and you should definitely
01:36:49 --> 01:36:52 [SPEAKER_04]: You can also check out properly Howard movie review.
01:36:52 --> 01:37:13 [SPEAKER_04]: They are just I think just they just finished baking wrap their Kevin Bacon themed season, and that was a lot of fun So go check out their feed if you want some good laughs with some good movies and some cheesy movies, too Check out radio active ramblings that are just wrapping up Gen V the boys spit off and You can also await their fallout coverage which is coming back in December.
01:37:13 --> 01:37:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I think we just got a date
01:37:15 --> 01:37:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Alicia, of course, always has her wool shift dust feed and her, uh, Star Wars can a timeline podcast feed, the wool shift dust feed is currently doing a Frankenstein themed Halloween exploration.
01:37:29 --> 01:37:32 [SPEAKER_04]: So definitely go over there if you want more spooky goodness.
01:37:32 --> 01:37:35 [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the horror hounds feed, you're on the, the it feed.
01:37:35 --> 01:37:37 [SPEAKER_04]: What more could you want?
01:37:37 --> 01:37:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And, of course, you can wait for David Cover Pluribus starting soon.
01:37:43 --> 01:37:45 [SPEAKER_04]: He's going to have a lot of fun with that one.
01:37:45 --> 01:37:49 [SPEAKER_04]: That is the new Vince Gilligan show that'll be on the main feed.
01:37:49 --> 01:37:52 [SPEAKER_04]: You can find everything in the show notes in the link tree.
01:37:53 --> 01:38:06 [SPEAKER_04]: So head on over there in the show notes if you want to go over there or if you want to go to our Discord server, discuss it, welcome to their dairy in siloed episode threads.
01:38:06 --> 01:38:26 [SPEAKER_04]: uh... horror at the lower-hounds.com if you want to get it on the conversation of what breeder feedback next week all right my thank you for the week i have our discord server boosters arantay to the thriller do seventy-one a thina a listoo nancy m ghost partition radio active Richard and adrian
01:38:26 --> 01:38:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Then our lore master, Samarshan, Michael G. Michellee, Brian P. S. C. Peter O. H. Adam S. Nancy M. Doov-71.
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01:38:42 --> 01:38:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Dead I Jedi Bob, Nathan T. Sub-Zero.
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01:38:49 --> 01:39:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Kathy W, the Stu, Jeffrey B, Elisa U, Neal F, Ben B, Scott F, Steven N, Julia F, Colleas, Ill-Mario, Forward slash Tim, Paul K, Rockism, Jessica H, Red Zippy, the TCS, Catch it!
01:39:07 --> 01:39:07 [SPEAKER_04]: and I drown.
01:39:08 --> 01:39:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks everyone for all your support.
01:39:10 --> 01:39:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't done the outro on a while because Alicia's been doing them on the last few pods I've been on and we already have some new members.
01:39:15 --> 01:39:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So thank you again for your support where they are a lore master, a discord server booster, anything, you know, just a listener.
01:39:23 --> 01:39:28 [SPEAKER_04]: We love having all around this what lets us go into these fun horror shows like it welcomed the dairy.
01:39:29 --> 01:39:34 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be back next week with another episode and until then, enjoy, dairy.
01:39:34 --> 01:39:37 [SPEAKER_00]: The Laura Hounds podcast is produced and published by the Laura Hounds.
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01:39:56 --> 01:39:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.