Elysia, John, and Mark send in the clowns to give more backstory to It. They discuss fake music numbers, the breaking of fellowships, and the show's three-season trajectory.
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00:09 --> 00:28 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you very much.
00:37 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_03]: welcome to the horror hounds podcast with a low-hounds your guides to small town terrors.
00:43 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm John.
00:44 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm Alicia and I'm Mark from Nevermind the Music.
00:47 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_04]: This is our coverage of it.
00:49 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to Darry on HBO Max season one episode six in the name of the father and it is episode six and they are finally trusting me to read one of the opening lines.
01:01 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_03]: You know what it was I didn't want to edit the outline that much, and then I was like, okay, you know what Mark's been with us six episodes It's time for him to Re-point it.
01:10 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll suck it up and I'll just change the outro the intro lines.
01:16 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, anyway, if you want to get into the content of her thus and and demand more mark You can send an email to horror at the lorehounds.com or head toward discord server from the link tree in the show notes
01:28 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you like which you've heard and want to support us, I could add free bonus content, check out the same link tree for our Patreon and supercast subscription options.
01:37 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, everyone, we're here episode six, the penultimate penultimate episode.
01:42 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
01:43 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_03]: The anti-penultimate episode?
01:47 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I think.
01:47 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:48 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_01]: As in, A and Tee, yeah.
01:51 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I think Sunday, you know, it could be Italian.
01:55 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_04]: yeah so we're we're here uh... what's your hot take marks and since you finally part of the intro what's your hot take yeah um... yeah happy to be here again for episode six i like this episode um... this was one of my favorite episodes i think
02:14 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Musc Yeti is really rolling the dice because you've got this story that a lot of people love.
02:21 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_04]: You've got this movie that there's series of movies that a lot of people love and even in many series people love and you're doing the difficult task of making a prequel right of doing the thing that people already know the answer to right and what becomes clear at this point with all the flashbacks is
02:43 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_04]: He's doubled down and he's trying to do this four times over and three times over, I guess.
02:49 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's really high risk potentially high reward because not only do we have this season where we know what's going to happen in the end and they're trying to make us compelled.
03:00 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_04]: But then we're going to go back one season where already kind of learning
03:04 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_04]: what happens in 1935 and not only that, but we're kind of learning what already happened in 1908 too.
03:10 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's this crazy cascading, you know, every prequel is a risk to how do you get people invested in characters when they kind of don't when the plot isn't enough, right, because we already know the end of the story.
03:24 --> 03:29 [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's a bold swing specifically with all the ingrid stuff.
03:29 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I think there's some issues I might.
03:31 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_04]: nitpick with it or honestly maybe i'm just a little confused but it's cool it was a cool reveal um... i think we learned now that maybe that line that we were debating in our first episode about muskiddy saying he was going to ruin the origin story of it
03:51 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_04]: that maybe what he's ruining is the orange and story of Pennywise, we're going to learn the origin of the clown form.
03:59 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's not the same as it.
04:01 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we can leave the origin story of the creature itself to what we already knew, which was this, you know, extra terrestrial arrival that then, you know, is there for hundreds and hundreds of years or thousands of years.
04:13 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe what he's ruining is something that we didn't expect would be ruined,
04:20 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_04]: clown family back in the early 20th century, which is pretty cool.
04:24 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_04]: And my last hot take, Charlotte's portrayed as pretty dumb in this episode, but we'll talk about it later.
04:31 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_04]: She makes some really runheaded decisions.
04:34 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my god, she tells everybody, people that she knows very much are on the other, she knows her husband.
04:42 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_04]: has loyalty first and foremost to the government.
04:47 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, her whole issue with him is that why are you not sticking up for your people and your family?
04:52 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Why are you sticking up for this government?
04:55 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_04]: let me tell you where we're hiding the guy that the government and she also I feel like she tells more than justly right there basically everybody's blabbing about where Hank is yeah everybody's blabbing I feel like the kind of character assassination because she's so but I think don't you think she should be have a relationship with her husband where she's open about that stuff I don't think Levi would ever tell their their relationship has really
05:21 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_04]: been strained in this episode.
05:23 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
05:24 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_04]: So like, I just think they've shown her as so, if this is someone who was in the movement, so to speak, I don't know, I just have issues with the way that they're showing her.
05:39 --> 05:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even think it's just Leroy that she told.
05:41 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like, didn't, somebody who's just Leroy.
05:46 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Just Leroy.
05:46 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_04]: So like, and then, and then I don't know, will told, March and Rich.
05:52 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And will told, and that's, I can see that a little bit.
05:57 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I just felt like they,
05:59 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_04]: When the episode opens with basically a major conflict in that family about his loyalties, I don't know.
06:09 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like you got to hide it.
06:10 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_04]: It felt at a character.
06:11 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_04]: That's my only really major issue with that.
06:15 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Leroy's an ass.
06:16 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Charlotte's portrayed his dumb.
06:18 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
06:18 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll take over.
06:19 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Hi.
06:21 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm not sure I'm with you.
06:29 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, especially considering the event of the episode before that, but let's let's let's get to that when we when we get to that right Alicia your hot takes
06:40 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I thought this, I really liked this episode.
06:44 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a, it was, you know, we talked about these moments of respite, and this was definitely one of those episodes it had, especially like the, the margin rich stuff was so charming, um, and it had, you know, the reunion of Ronnie and her father and a lot of just warm fuzzy, we said spoiler warning, right, spoiler for this episode.
07:05 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
07:07 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I, it's,
07:09 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a warm episode for the most part, except for obviously the handlings are falling apart and they were kind of our solid heart going into this, but we kind of realized that the town would corrupt them.
07:23 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to emphasize to everyone that again, we have heard a lot about, we've been explicitly told that the entity is shedding into the water, so everyone in town is affected.
07:39 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_01]: like a lot of weird behavior can be explained by that.
07:43 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I had, for reasons, actually, unrelated to this podcast, I happened to rewatch the scene from the movie where Ben is getting an H carved in his stomach.
07:58 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And I noticed that, and I guess I've noticed this before but this stuck out to me that, you know, this that car that drives by as it's happening that doesn't stop to help.
08:09 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And I noticed as it went by that a red balloon pops up in the back of the car, just like a subtle way of saying everyone's influenced by it.
08:20 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
08:22 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, that was
08:25 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_01]: that to me was handy to have happened to have seen that before watching this episode because that was definitely in my mind.
08:35 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I just I love the way that they are building.
08:39 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I know next episode is going to be absolutely devastating.
08:42 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Things are happening a little faster than I expected so it makes me wonder what the season finale is going to focus on because I think
08:51 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But this was, yeah, this was a good character episode in the name of the father.
08:56 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It's called, I call it in my head, daddy issues the episode.
08:59 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I just love, yeah, that the wither doing their building more tension by in the opening song.
09:07 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there's more background sounds being added to the opening song to make it sound creepier.
09:16 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I did not notice and I did watch the intro this time.
09:20 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting.
09:20 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to have to pay attention again.
09:23 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm never watching this with the intro.
09:25 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was watching it for the first four episodes.
09:28 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I stuffed watching it the last two because of time.
09:30 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I need to start watching it again.
09:31 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_04]: That is really cool catch.
09:33 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and yeah, I just, I loved the opening for this just, uh, the whole, so we had the 1908 flashbacks before now.
09:41 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We got to 1935.
09:43 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I loved the way they filmed it, that it was very stylized with the black and white, and then just the pops of red color, um, apparently they also rather than in, I've noticed another, uh, parts of the series.
09:57 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They do move the camera a lot, like the camera sweeps, and it's like a character to moving
10:03 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_01]: for this opening, they really just made it stationary to have these sort of, I don't know, almost no-are influenced images pop up.
10:13 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that, yeah, it was gorgeous episode.
10:16 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you remember what the other flashbacks have looked like in terms of cinematography have we been in C.P.
10:23 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_04]: a tone land if has there been other block and white?
10:25 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_01]: 1908 was very full color.
10:28 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We saw another little clip of it because we saw Perry Winkle from 1908.
10:32 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was filmed pretty much the same way as the rest of the show.
10:37 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really this is the one that's was differentiated.
10:41 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I think they just wanted to do the red balloon with the black and white, honestly.
10:45 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like that's what they wanted to do here or maybe because this was a memory of Yeah, they did say it was from her perspective.
10:53 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_04]: They said I'm a official podcast or inside the episode or wherever Okay, so this was directed by Jamie Travis Which I'm trying to think
11:06 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that director of any of the other episodes?
11:09 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder it could just be that the decision of the filmmaker, you know?
11:16 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was something we talked about on inside the episode.
11:19 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was on, they have great little mini docs behind the scenes on the HBO YouTube channel after every episode comes out.
11:31 --> 11:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So they talked about it there.
11:33 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is the only episode that Jamie Travis directed of this season, so.
11:39 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_03]: so far because we have two more episodes with TBA on the director right so yeah well we'll say if we get more I mean I thought this episode was great overall I guess I'm gonna segue into hot takes here I think it's funny that Alicia says this is a respite episode when we had literally a kid get eaten and then a uh it's it you know yeah and then and then we had a daddy squid coming out of the desk and
12:06 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'll end it ends with the least screaming, but she has a scream clean, huh?
12:12 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay.
12:12 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, what?
12:15 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Well cast.
12:16 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, just like she's got a great scream.
12:19 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Just going just writing her bike down and then I felt it.
12:22 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's she's got a really like blood curdling scream
12:27 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_04]: There is no big set piece here though, right?
12:30 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_04]: It's small moments.
12:32 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_03]: You're right.
12:32 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_04]: You're right.
12:33 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_03]: You're right.
12:34 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I also, I think that the everybody did a terrible job hiding Hank broken, except I actually think Charlotte did a pretty good job like that's that's probably the best case scenario in town, right?
12:49 --> 12:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think the selection of the location is fine.
12:53 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I think you just got to be really careful after that point.
12:56 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_04]: That's all it is.
12:57 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I just think that Charlie didn't expect him to throw up party back the time.
13:03 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's it's bar.
13:04 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I love there is a lot of people commenting on like I shared a blue sky post on on discord about a lot of people comparing it to sinners and like we lost two due
13:21 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we got a musical montage that was maybe a little less not montage, but a musical scene that was maybe a little less Magical in the literal and figurative sense than the one in sinners, but right sadly we're we're going towards white people crowding the door, either way.
13:40 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, and overall I just love the episode was great.
13:45 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I think the backstory is a really fun way to do this.
13:48 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to talk about when we get to Perry Winkle
13:51 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Whether that was the going to be the main villain of this season before Bill Skarsquarsquarsquars decided back on.
14:00 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, mom, glad we're getting, I mean I suppose in some ways she still is, obviously, obviously the entity was always going to be there in some form, but I'm glad we're getting this backstory that was teased in the movies.
14:14 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean too, the other the other thing is,
14:17 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that we are going to have a fun time anyway with future seasons because a lot of this information we're going to just give me more questions of, okay, what happened to daddy curse, right?
14:30 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Like what happened, I guess he's not daddy curse, right?
14:33 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_03]: He's not.
14:34 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Bob Gray.
14:34 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Bob Gray.
14:35 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_03]: What happened to Bob Gray?
14:37 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_03]: How did he disappear?
14:38 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Because she just vaguely says, and then he was taken from you.
14:42 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:42 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's going to be next week too.
14:44 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_04]: and I think that they're going to save that part and if they don't then I don't know what they're going to do in season well that's what I was going to say that's what I was saying about the high risk high reward like they're creating all this tantalizing stuff in the previous cycles and then answering those questions and so I feel like
15:02 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_04]: There's something very cool about the Perry Winkle and Robert Gray stuff being in the previous era is obviously, but we're in the same with Shaw and Rose, right?
15:17 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Then I start to think, well, but there's got to be more, right?
15:19 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Because they're they're they're giving us so much.
15:22 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I definitely want to know what happens to the, you know, we could, we could assume maybe Pennywise murder, the original, Bob Gray, like whatever it is.
15:30 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_04]: But is that what the 1908 season is?
15:33 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Or is there plus the plus the ironworks explosion?
15:38 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Or is there more, is that kind of a side character?
15:41 --> 15:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And so there's a version of reality.
15:43 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_04]: where they've kind of taken away all of the steam from their, the tea's gonna be kind of to Luke Warren by the time we get to it, or there's a version where they've just populated that world with so much color that you can come up with another story, but we get this, oh, there's Ingrid, there she is, like we get these kind of little tastes of the stuff we already know.
16:08 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_04]: And so it could be this really cool
16:10 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Russian nesting doll thing, or they've taken away too much of the mystery.
16:16 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to, I think that, um, whole trying to hold back and dribble out the mystery over years would be very just satisfying to me.
16:27 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And I absolutely believe that they have a lot more in the tank and that this is not, as we keep saying, this is not a TV show about spoilers.
16:34 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We know what the augury, what the big bad event of each of these
16:40 --> 16:49 [SPEAKER_01]: and the fact that they're setting that up for this season to play out next week tells me that that's not what the focus of the finale is even going to be.
16:49 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard to predict what the finale is going to be despite the fact that we know a lot about who's got a liver die and things that have to happen.
16:59 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I also have to say, well, I'll keep my mouth shut about it, but I have seen the trailer for next week, so.
17:05 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I have not.
17:06 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_03]: I have to be there,
17:10 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Someone's gonna die.
17:11 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Do we think though there's been enough, and please don't excerpt this and send it to the FBI?
17:16 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Do we think there's been enough child murder for this cycle to be over already?
17:22 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_04]: We got some glimpses of missing persons, and that was nice, a nice taste, especially in contrast with,
17:28 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_04]: with, you know, the wanted posters and all that, but it feels like it's over pretty fast, but maybe that's just because we fast forward it after Maddie disappeared.
17:36 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm where I don't think, I mean, I can say with almost certainty that we're not done losing kids.
17:44 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_04]: But like presumably the mass murder could be about to happen, meaning like literally this night, right?
17:53 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, it's just an interesting like we don't have
17:56 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_04]: the the census guy in that tribal meeting who is saying we've had seven murders in twenty one we don't have a sense for how much lower that is really then previous seasons so to speak cycles you know sometimes you eat a salad early in the day and then later you're going to pick out right like uh... i think that might be penny wise is game here right he's he's even himself for the buffet to liberate
18:23 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He's been setting the dressing, letting it steep with all that nice herbal fear.
18:31 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_03]: He was on a juice cleanse actually.
18:34 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
18:35 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So again, I like this episode.
18:37 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's great.
18:39 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't we get right into it?
18:41 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_03]: We'll let's go to the handlons.
18:43 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Liroi lectures his son about what happened in the sewers when Will Blames his dad for Pauli, Liroi hits him.
18:49 --> 18:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Will accuses him of being under its influence and runs to find his friends.
18:54 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Later Charlotte tells Liroi she's returning to their old home and then he should figure out his priorities and meet them there to patch things up with Will.
19:03 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm at Liroi.
19:04 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to point out that Will's middle name is because we hear his mother calling by his full name and his middle name is Dubois, which I'm assuming based on who Charlotte is, is a reference to W.E.B.
19:18 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Dubois, who is a writer and civil rights activist, who was alive and famous during that time and actually died the following year in 1963.
19:26 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, good catch.
19:29 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, one interesting thing, like,
19:33 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_04]: back when I was a polysci major in taking those kinds of classes and things like that, there was a lot of like, I think in the era, but certainly in the modern context, Du Boah is often kind of paired comparatively with Booker 2 Washington, who's writing an active at the time.
19:50 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_04]: But what's relevant here is that the comparison often is framed that Du Boah was more about
19:58 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_04]: immediate improvement and immediate action, whereas Booker T. Washington was more advocating for gradual, I don't want to say assimilation, but kind of like slow uplift and patience, sort of steady rising child rises, what is it, rising tide, raises all shifts or whatever, and so there's an interesting comparison potentially
20:26 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_04]: with her parents with exactly with Charlotte maybe being more to blah blah blah blah and uh... washington being more kind of spiritual model of what hellyroy approaches things and does it you know sort of signal like will was more or is more charlet's kid she chose the middle name right and i'm not saying like i wouldn't i wouldn't expect
20:53 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_04]: either of them, to have a problem with either.
20:56 --> 21:01 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not, I don't think this was a thing where people were displeased with Booker II Washington.
21:01 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just like they had different approaches that were sort of informative on the sort of trajectory of the civil rights movement.
21:09 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And you know what, understandably, like I'm not an expert on any of this, but I was struck, when I heard,
21:14 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_04]: to blah, to boys, as I don't know, some people say that.
21:18 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_04]: So is it, he went by DuBois, do we know that?
21:21 --> 21:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I know it would be spelled way.
21:23 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I was taught to blah, that.
21:24 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_01]: DuBois, yeah.
21:25 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_01]: In school.
21:26 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_04]: This is the West Coast, public universities.
21:30 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, we won't say the boys.
21:32 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, well, Illinois, and not Illinois, isn't all those things.
21:36 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_03]: So in what?
21:37 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's make Jordan proud for getting his pickabacquad my mouth.
21:42 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's right.
21:43 --> 21:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you have to pronounce it.
21:44 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Du-wah.
21:45 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Du-wah.
21:46 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
21:47 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, hilariously.
21:48 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I don't know.
21:49 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_04]: I thought I just thought that was interesting and if it Doesn't mean anything.
21:53 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_04]: It's still kind of has meaning, you know, I think as What do law represents and what she seems to represent?
22:01 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely absolutely
22:03 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take my internet points for saying that Lee Roy's, since he's not experiencing fear in the same way as other people, it's coming out in anger.
22:14 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_01]: We're definitely seeing that, but my question is because he's known to not experience fear, does that make his account of the demon more believable to others?
22:26 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We didn't really see that play out this episode, but I wonder, we didn't see any military stuff this episode.
22:32 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, we just saw the soldiers off duty, where I'll have to.
22:37 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but yeah, we, so Shaw wanted to, if you'll work on last episode at the end of the episode, he wanted to chat with them afterward and he, Lee Roy goes, now I got to go home.
22:46 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So we haven't not seen the debrief.
22:49 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we know that it's happened though because he gets orders from Shah to relay to Hanlon.
22:57 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Haloran's true.
22:58 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_03]: True.
22:59 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Or at least it seems that's apparent.
23:02 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like
23:04 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_04]: In the same way that like the kids doked up on X and then it kind of didn't matter, meaning like they were afraid anyways, I kind of feel like he has behaved almost like anybody would behave.
23:15 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not sure that this is really amounted the amygdala damage he has seems to have mattered.
23:23 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_04]: He seems kind of a scared enough and, you know, Nicole would probably tell us that like,
23:30 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_04]: anger in toxic masculine culture in the United States often is a reflection of a man's fear they won't admit.
23:37 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So he's kind of behaving almost as if he is afraid.
23:41 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Like he seemed afraid for his son and so he's lashing out in a really negative way, anger but
23:51 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, what does it mean for him not to be afraid if he experiences every other emotion that is very, very, very much next to fear?
24:01 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
24:01 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me pitch this to you.
24:02 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_03]: So I do think he's still experiencing anxiety and I think he experiences logical fear still, right?
24:08 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, he can intellectually understand this would be a negative thing.
24:14 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And so when he sees his wife begging for help in the sewers,
24:19 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_03]: that is something that will, maybe Pennywise can't make him shake, but Pennywise can make him want to help his wife.
24:33 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And so if I don't think it's only fear, it can play on.
24:38 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just illusions are its power.
24:41 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And so if it can't target your amygdala, it'll target your whatever rather brain
24:49 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_01]: your prefrontal cortex.
24:50 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_03]: There you go.
24:51 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where that she would make up in an episode of my podcast.
24:53 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure the prefrontal cortex is just a myth that people tell young people, so that they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want to make sure they don't want
25:10 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's not a writing problem to have the military have a crazy idea of what would work, and then it doesn't, right?
25:18 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Like that.
25:19 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
25:19 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_04]: It totally would make sense that they are wrong that him having a deficient to make Dilla would really change much.
25:27 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_04]: He may not what he may not be as somebody who tastes very good to the creature, you know, true.
25:33 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Because he doesn't have the fear season, but he can still
25:37 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_04]: experience the hallucinations or whatever illusions that it creates like he's still, you know, and this is this is what we're supposed to be asking is how much of his behavior is a parent overreacting and how much of it is the toxic, you know, evil influence because I have to say
26:06 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_04]: the natural consequence of their action, which is you made this choice, and not that it's your fault, but their demand died because of that.
26:15 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, it probably several people died, right?
26:18 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Down in the sewers in general, like whether it's Will's fault or not.
26:22 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_04]: which is entirely different than blaming your 12-year-old for a death, which is entirely different from hitting your 12-year-old when you think he's back talking to you.
26:32 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but I screamed when he said, I know I'm not you because I would never let my friend stay.
26:37 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what that's when he got hit, and I was like, that was
26:41 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_01]: over the lie.
26:43 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't support hitting your kids.
26:45 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I've never hit my kids.
26:46 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I never will.
26:47 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I will also say like cheap shot.
26:50 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I, I, if my kids said something like that to me, I'd, I'd, I'd have to leave the room.
26:55 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, right.
26:55 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_01]: You lost your best friend, you know, right.
26:58 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I just have to leave the room like the conversation would just be over.
27:01 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_04]: So do the, we then think will has been controlled by Pennywise.
27:04 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, like, is every time somebody acts like, real, Leroy's reaction sucks, but Leroy's reaction is also a very human.
27:13 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_04]: You could have a non-supernatural show and watch a scene where this exact situation happened except a kid was messing around and then the guy accidentally shot his friend and that person would behave.
27:25 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I'm not quite ready to say,
27:28 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_04]: that Leroy is necessarily under the spell, but I'm not sure that he's not, right, especially since he's like, oh, I'm not sure I was myself, but even that has anybody ever in our listener, you know, pool ever experienced an angry moment where you go, wow, I can't believe I just did that.
27:47 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_04]: So,
27:48 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_04]: The jury's outdo either of the two of you feel strongly about whether he is specifically under the spell sort of as opposed to just hot a stressful moment because of death and you know his version of fear.
28:02 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen him his personality bending toward this angry or archetype ever since he arrived in town and I'm sure he would say, oh it's because
28:17 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, doing her activism and keeping my kids safe and all that, but I think that a big part of it is he's been drinking the same water as everybody else and he's seen a lot more than most other people too.
28:29 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we know that petting wise invested heavily in the growth of Stanley Cups, just to get people drinking more water.
28:37 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why, I mean, Stanley Cups is for me, that I don't think that they exist in Europe.
28:44 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But all I hear is that people are lining up for hours to get a cup, and I'm trying to understand that's from a distance, but I don't.
28:51 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_03]: They just love it.
28:52 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's, uh, what's made some so special.
28:54 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
28:56 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
28:56 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I have a coworker who like loves Stanley Cups and I and I I've never understood it But you know what we all have our thing right sure sure.
29:05 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I love watching science fiction and she probably would like that sure All my not powers for that.
29:10 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
29:11 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right?
29:12 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I did not realize it was literally hours.
29:14 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was one thing to be popular, but it's just a cup like
29:19 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't just get the cup like is there a supply I mean, I maybe by now it's you can just get it But I remember they're being some Rush on them like a couple of years ago We got to ask the Jen Jensey cohort in the community.
29:33 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I think we got millennial woman thing.
29:35 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:35 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:36 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's really that's too I learned about it from my millennial women friends in the U.S. Yeah, this is this is like a 30 to 40 year old Phenomenal.
29:44 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
29:44 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
29:45 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was okay
29:46 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but yeah, anyway, I do think that I am more willing, I don't want to say I'm willing to forgive you shouldn't hit your kid.
29:57 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't even mean I understand more how this happened than I would.
30:03 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of other acts of violence in the show.
30:05 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Just because he just was traumatized and he's lashing out.
30:10 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_03]: He's still on head of kit.
30:11 --> 30:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I don't know, maybe I just have trouble empathizing because like I don't react with violence.
30:16 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I've just never been a person who reacts with violence, physical violence.
30:20 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's a military man, right?
30:22 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's trained in physical violence.
30:24 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I respect Charlotte's reaction to that.
30:26 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_01]: She's just quietly packing up her stuff.
30:28 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like
30:30 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
30:31 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that that was the best way to deal with it, right?
30:33 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_03]: She didn't escalate.
30:34 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_03]: She said, it's up.
30:36 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_03]: You did the wrong.
30:37 --> 30:38 [SPEAKER_03]: It's up to you to fix it.
30:38 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_04]: It's interesting because it tells us something about their relationship and the kind of contract they have.
30:44 --> 30:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So to speak in that relationship and as a as co-parents because
30:48 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Again, not excusing anything, but like the fact is this was way more normal in the 60s to have to hit your kid.
30:53 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
30:54 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_04]: True.
30:55 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_04]: So the idea that right now you heard of a friend who hit their kid and then their spouse is leaving them, you'd be like, yeah, that sounds about right, but in the 60s like that would be quite.
31:08 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_04]: That's quite a step that I think most people, even spouses that are not happy with the domestic violence, would, it's a much less common take.
31:17 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_04]: And so that tells us something about like, what their established norms are.
31:22 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_04]: So not only is it that,
31:25 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_04]: this is a bad moment for him and she doesn't like that moment and will obviously doesn't like that moment but this this has crossed something in that it would be believable that she would do that right well she's she's obviously on the forefront of the civil rights movement right but the civil rights movement isn't happening in our vacuum there's also the feminist movement
31:45 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_03]: There's you know there's child rights is like just becoming a thing.
31:49 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, in the 60s again I think I mentioned on previous thing like we just kind of figured out the child abuse was happening in the 60s like oh, that's that's crazy This is happening and so I do think that someone like Charlotte whose activist minded is going to be Influenced by these various ideas right is going to Be educating herself and be be part of the forefront of a lot of things even if her priority perhaps is the civil rights firm
32:15 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't know what their parents background was as children themselves, whether either of them were exposed to abuse of behavior that she might also be reacting to.
32:26 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_04]: We got to watch that.
32:28 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_04]: How much of it is him by and how much of it is Pennywise or it and also, you know, is her.
32:37 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_04]: are her bad strategic decisions about who she tells about the black spot also Pennywise's influence.
32:43 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, I'll shut up about it for now.
32:44 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that she telling her telling her husband the truth, I support this.
32:49 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but, but on that, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
33:17 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
33:18 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, like like the cops corner them and be like, did you know something about your dad little girl to Ronnie?
33:24 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Like she's way more likely to say, you have to think that the kids are way more likely to be intimidated and have taken advantage of getting this information.
33:35 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Not funny.
33:36 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Not to the cops who have wrongly accused her father.
33:40 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Ronnie is still a
33:43 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_04]: preteen girl.
33:44 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
33:45 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Like if you're Charlotte telling your, your, your, these, the kids is just, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're
34:12 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_01]: somebody would let it out is because these kids are going to tell their friends like yes I believe that was leaky but in charlie's defense she's never done anything wrong and I will rest my case there yeah she gets her mulligan right so anyway
34:29 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I do think that telling Ronnie was reasonable because Ronnie, I think, is intended to stay there with her dad until he leaves, right?
34:37 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the whole point of bringing her there.
34:39 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_03]: She knows.
34:40 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And she deserves that information in a way that nobody else does, right?
34:43 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
34:44 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't read it telling the other kids was silly, especially like even your son, like don't tell your son what's going on, do not include your son in your criminal activities, right?
34:55 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Whether it's right or not, I think it's the right thing to get Hank Morgan out of town.
35:00 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_03]: He's wrongfully accused.
35:02 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's still criminal, right?
35:04 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_03]: It's still against the law here.
35:05 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So risky at least, right?
35:07 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if the person you get out of, if the fugitive isn't, you're still abading a fugitive, right?
35:14 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Like you're still, that's still a crime to help someone get out of jail.
35:19 --> 35:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
35:21 --> 35:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I don't tell your son, but I don't like the Charlotte was the cause of this leak.
35:26 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I think this was, this was all the soldiers and their party.
35:31 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we know that a woman called it in, and I'm certain it was not Charlotte.
35:37 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a feeling that we know who it was.
35:41 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, who are you?
35:42 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we got to talk about her.
35:44 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_03]: You think it was angry?
35:47 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
35:47 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Huh.
35:48 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_04]: So, I mean, we're gonna have to talk about, like, I'm still a little unclear on how...
35:53 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_04]: how much ingrid is crazy versus ingrid is evil.
35:57 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And we can talk more about that, but there is like, why ingrid at all, like why is ingrid happened just from a writer perspective to also be the person that Hank was having an affair with.
36:09 --> 36:10 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think she did that.
36:10 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_04]: The answer could be she's doing all of this to create this mass event, right?
36:16 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_04]: So we don't know that yet, but it might be.
36:19 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_04]: And so realistically, I think ingrid is a pretty likely,
36:23 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_04]: culprit given that this is a show that at this point six episodes and we we probably should hurt hit have heard the name of the character before they engage in the story and a super important way so it's probably her I just want to see angry pull up to the checkpoint trying to get on base trusted periowinkle they're like yeah what's going on and he's like kids birthday party inside and it's fine
36:46 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
36:47 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the box.
36:48 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_04]: But on base because it's a good question.
36:52 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_04]: It's easy for the influence of dairy.
36:54 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:54 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They said something about it being, it seems like it's in the woods maybe in that area called they keep calling the barons.
37:04 --> 37:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But yet they said something about it being like miles from.
37:07 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_01]: other buildings?
37:09 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's probably got to be within the pillar circle.
37:13 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
37:15 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
37:15 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
37:15 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's take a break and we'll come back and get back to the episode.
37:41 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Or back, Alicia, tell us about the breaking of the fellowship.
37:46 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the kids meet up in their hideout to regroup after their run-in with Pennywise.
37:51 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Lily shows them the dagger and suggests they return to the sewers.
37:55 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Ronnie lashes out, telling Lily she never should have been let out of Juniper Hill.
38:00 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Another woof.
38:01 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_01]: She leaves and will goes after her and the two share an intimate moment before Charlotte interrupts.
38:11 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And then yeah, we see Lily on her own for the rest of the episode.
38:15 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, that's that's great for getting to the bottom of this ingrid plot.
38:19 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about, but I'm worried about Lily being separated from the group on the one hand, although this does keep her away from whatever's going on at the black spot right now, but I'm also, I'm just worried about like mentally, Lily.
38:35 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_01]: feeling like she is no longer a part of the group and whether that makes her do bad things.
38:43 --> 38:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, we should have done better.
38:47 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The her precious.
38:48 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, don't touch it.
38:50 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_04]: is she also under the spell, she almost feels like she's behaving a little out of not out of character, but it felt a little bit like she's been holding the ring of power a little too long and it's corrupting her and she's like my precious and it's making her really irritable
39:16 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
39:16 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that there is a reason they kept this dagger in a safe and not on somebody's possession like a keeper.
39:23 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe I was being hard on tenial for not holding it or doing, you know, tenial dagger arms as I put it.
39:30 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe there's a reason why he was not touching it until he had to.
39:35 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
39:35 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And look, we'll go to the vertices that have a monopoly on like evil objects
39:40 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_03]: But I would be fine with that being like, okay, it's a piece of the thing it came with.
39:45 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it's not so fun to hold.
39:49 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it's a web and out of necessity, not out of, you know, joy.
39:53 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
39:56 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm with that.
39:57 --> 40:01 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't think we need to go too deep into the fight.
40:01 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_03]: just it was rough right they were they were really rough to each other both of them and uh... united both of them are like a little bit couple both of the real villain is it and lily's trying to say that rani's like no i'm gonna blame everybody else and uh... both of them are on i think both of them are just kind of trying to shift the blame and it's just a sad situation
40:26 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And this is a necessary, not necessary, but an expected narrative moment, right?
40:32 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_04]: And sort of, you know, it's pretty kignant to have the band break up at one point to come back later.
40:39 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And you know, it's right, what do we add eight episodes, right?
40:42 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_04]: So we're six episodes in where at that right point in the,
40:45 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_04]: The, I don't know, we're past the golden meme.
40:48 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I think of this season, but this is the point at which certain things like this should happen.
40:52 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, it felt pretty natural, even though the characters are saying things that you've kind of wins at when you hear them say them.
41:00 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and Rich calls it out.
41:02 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I wanna put that out.
41:04 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Rich calls out what's happening.
41:05 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_03]: This is what it wants, right?
41:07 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Because eight suffers when you have connection, right?
41:11 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Connection helps Steve off the fear.
41:13 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_03]: and it wants you to be isolated here.
41:18 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's interesting that even though we see the break up of the group here, we see two pairs of people get more intimate than ever.
41:28 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_01]: True, will that protect them through the next episode?
41:33 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_03]: We'll say, and then, of course, Lily thinks she has an intimate connection, like a motherly connection almost,
41:43 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.
41:43 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't trust that person.
41:46 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And then we kind of already talked about, um, you know, Charlotte interrupting with, I love her.
41:51 --> 41:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank y'all groan.
41:55 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_03]: It was so good.
41:58 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So good.
41:58 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
42:01 --> 42:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's let's go into one of those new couples.
42:05 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Marge and Rich.
42:07 --> 42:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Mark, can you tell us about it?
42:09 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Bow, check a wow wow.
42:11 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Marge tries to redress her eye wound alone in the hideout, but Rich comes up to launch his paper airplane.
42:18 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_04]: He offers to redress her wound for her and calls it the coolest thing he's ever seen.
42:23 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_04]: The pair agree they have to get the group back together.
42:26 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_04]: At lunch, Rich gives margin, I patch, which she loves.
42:30 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_04]: The paddicate tried to recruit margin back, but she calls herself a freak along with the others and scares them off with her wound.
42:40 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_01]: A margin redemption arc is complete.
42:43 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, that was very satisfying.
42:47 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
42:49 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I would like them together.
42:52 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_03]: And I just want to say Alicia, you want to say they called her Margaret, they did call her Margaret.
43:01 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Who the paddocks did?
43:02 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they did.
43:04 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
43:04 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's my sense for, yeah.
43:07 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_01]: There's only one Margaret that's ever been born in the day.
43:11 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_03]: There's two riches, but there's only one Margaret.
43:14 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I do wish that they would have like on the welcome to dairy sign if like a population.
43:23 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
43:24 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_04]: We got her last name.
43:25 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember what it was, but it was, it was, I, I, I, I, I, I mean, it's not up on that.
43:31 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to be tows your office.
43:32 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I'm going to be tows your butt, but I looked up and we don't know, I don't think.
43:37 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Richie Tozier's mom's maiden name.
43:41 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_04]: I was hoping we do know that his dad's name is not rich though so It's some fear and for rich here.
43:48 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's that's a bummer because he's a cool character It would be a memorial name like a name my kid after you.
43:55 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, she's like no I just really need to name this boy rich.
43:59 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't ask why.
43:59 --> 44:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah Right, yeah
44:04 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But I love that moment by the way, when the Patty cakes come up and she's like, well, you're going to hang out here with Ricky Riccardo and the rest of these losers.
44:13 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And you think like she's referring to the group of friends in general, but of course, it's only the two of them sitting there.
44:19 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So they paned to this table of just a bunch of other random kids who are like, who asked, why are we part of this conversation?
44:26 --> 44:30 [SPEAKER_01]: just a reminder that yeah, this school is bigger than the five kids we've been following.
44:31 --> 44:43 [SPEAKER_04]: I was just going to say like with regards to that iPad that that rich very sweetly gives her pretty cool that he thought of that, but John in particular, we're used to prize that like he has family from Umbar.
44:44 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And that, like, that came from the Bay of Belphoulos and like the Black Numinorians came and brought this to Cuba and, sorry, am I, is that the wrong?
44:54 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it doesn't know, you know what, I think, I think you're right, you're really out of something here.
44:59 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_04]: He said Corsair's and I know Corsair's are a real thing, but of course Real things don't always jump to mine as quickly as fantasy worlds like Lord of the Rings do.
45:09 --> 45:15 [SPEAKER_04]: That's right Anyway, sorry waste the time cut it out or don't
45:15 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_01]: John, you said your daughter is a come scout, right?
45:18 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm an eagle scout.
45:19 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_03]: So I have, you know, I was, I was or below.
45:23 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you want to explain when it is?
45:25 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Isn't it a little below?
45:26 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_03]: By the way, yeah, it's really weak.
45:28 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_03]: It's weak, it's weak, it's weak, loyal scouts.
45:31 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_01]: But okay, but this says that folk its biology says that will be loyal scouts is is what it means but it's this little thing that I looked up said that that it's not actually the terms of original meaning and it came from Wolf Bear Lion Scout.
45:52 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I didn't know about that because the handbook today says we will be loyal scouts.
45:56 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_04]: It's weird, too, because there isn't no, I was not an eagle.
45:59 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I got us.
46:00 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I got
46:01 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_04]: What is it after you finish we below see become an arrow of light right I got that and then quit after that so that's like fifth grade or whatever something like that
46:10 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_04]: There isn't Wolf Bear Lion.
46:12 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_04]: It's Wolf Bear Bobcat.
46:14 --> 46:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Lion was dropped at least at least at least at least at least too.
46:16 --> 46:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
46:16 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
46:17 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'll tell you the current status of everything because I'm now currently involved.
46:22 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
46:22 --> 46:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, they added back Lion.
46:25 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_03]: So Lion is back.
46:26 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Lion is now the kindergarteners.
46:28 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_03]: They made it.
46:30 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_03]: It started early.
46:31 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_03]: That was tiger when I was the kid.
46:33 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_03]: That was that no tiger was always first grade.
46:36 --> 46:46 [SPEAKER_03]: oh yeah so they they made the age lower now so because lion tiger wolf there and bear oh my
46:47 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_03]: lion tiger wolf bear we blow arrow of light which was an award but now is a rank and an award which is a arrow like like a you know pointy object to shoot a row of light not a like a arrow wait for the cat cubscat anymore those are all cubscat
47:09 --> 47:27 [SPEAKER_03]: no no there's no bobcat i'm saying there's no bobcat is now a sub category of each rank where oh my god yeah so so now you go through a list of uh... like sub requirements that are all under the category like bobcat lion you know et cetera
47:28 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have to get a certain amount of experience points to be so how long were you a we below so because I he said I was a wee below for two years and I feel like you're only a wee below's for like a year You know could be wrong so it used to be used to be that you're a wee below and I think this would be true for the time He was on it used to be that you're a wee below for about a year and a half a year and a half to two years because the first year You're we we blow second year.
47:51 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_03]: You're you're working on your arrow of light
47:53 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_03]: And then usually mid-year towards the end of the year, you go over to Boy Scouts if you are in the era of light.
48:00 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_03]: You get to go to Boy Scouts a little early.
48:02 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_04]: So he's a failed, it was full two years and quit after that.
48:06 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's a reason he was two years, because he did not get enough patches.
48:11 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
48:11 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_04]: He can't tie knots well enough for whatever.
48:13 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
48:13 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Now they have because that was confusing to people that you're like maybe you're in a half to two years.
48:19 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Now it's that you're a weeble for one year and then you're in an era of light after that.
48:22 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
48:24 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
48:25 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_01]: By the way.
48:25 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's your Cub Scout lore.
48:27 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
48:28 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I found it interesting also that he said the whole thing about saliva having antiseptic properties and then walking it back to which is like, this is real science and then he's like science is constantly changing but there's something almost like a apologetic on that and half of the writers like we're going to say this thing but just in case we're going to.
48:48 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_04]: say science it's constantly changing I don't know I thought it was just a cop-out I thought it was funny we'll say something so we're changing constantly changing I just think he's an anti-vaxxer you know nobody's alive it does have anti-ceptic properties it's I mean it also has insane amounts of bacteria right so like the anti-ceptic qualities of saliva are best used on one's own mouth right I don't think if you lick if you lick like my dog licks his wounds don't have a bacteria than humans
49:17 --> 49:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, good for them, but I think the anti-septic aspects of saliva is like why your cut mouth will heal so fast, but I think if I like lick somebody else's wound, it actually probably makes it worse because my bacteria are different, but that is what I'm going to believe you've been someone else's wound.
49:39 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_01]: no there's actually there is if you google it i did go down this rabbit hole yesterday um if you google it there is like centuries of people saying that you should look people's wounds and studies about this should you look people's wounds right and you kiss and make it better right when your kind of gardener cuts their knee you know yeah they also thought we should put leeches on us to heal of an infection so i'm gonna say we should i don't in some cases i'm not gonna trust the the centuries of opinions on this one
50:08 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sometimes like leeches and maggots do have their own god, right?
50:12 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So seriously.
50:13 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, even now, it keeps the blood flowing, right?
50:15 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Like there's times when they need to like, I'm not saying you're supposed to, what do they call it when they would like drain you of your blood or whatever, right?
50:23 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's how they still use it, I think.
50:27 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh wow.
50:28 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_03]: You know what?
50:29 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to put in my living will that I don't want any leeches or maggots on me ever.
50:34 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't care.
50:35 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me go.
50:35 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me die before you die.
50:37 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_01]: If I have to get green or something, I'll put up with the maggots.
50:40 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't want to see it.
50:42 --> 50:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
50:43 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_04]: That's true.
50:43 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Would you be okay with them using ants as your stitches, though?
50:47 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_04]: No.
50:48 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
50:48 --> 50:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Really?
50:49 --> 50:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I feel that way.
50:50 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That's your stitches.
50:52 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_04]: You haven't heard of this?
50:57 --> 50:57 [UNKNOWN]: No.
50:57 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember which desert indigenous culture discovered this and used to use it, but it's still even used sometimes, I think.
51:05 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_04]: If you take like a fire ant and you've got to cut, you bring the fire ant close to the cut, it will bite and close the wound and then they like cut the head off.
51:15 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_04]: and they've got this little ant head and you've got a row of giant fire ants or whatever they are stitching somebody's wound together.
51:23 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_04]: This is not likely something I just make up, but just made up.
51:28 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_01]: We have the red.
51:29 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't let me die, but we have the technology.
51:34 --> 51:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very simple.
51:35 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Even I would rather just like a sewing kit with thread than that.
51:42 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_04]: You're saying it's better than ants.
51:43 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, personally for me, but I think it's like, it's a fact, I don't know, we'd have to people write in, tell us what is this come from?
51:59 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Have I, I think this is like,
52:03 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_04]: popular hundreds of years ago, probably, but um, it's, oh my, there's like a literal YouTube video of someone actually doing it maybe with an army aunt.
52:15 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
52:16 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Anyways, so, yeah.
52:20 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Alright, I'm moving on to the next scene before I bleed out from refusing my wound.
52:23 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, care.
52:23 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_03]: This is very rough.
52:25 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Halorin.
52:26 --> 52:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Halorin returns to the black spot to get a drinking an
52:33 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_03]: who promises to stay quiet in the back.
52:36 --> 52:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Haloran takes the bottle to his quarters, where he's interrupted by Hamlin and a ghost.
52:41 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Dick tells Li Roy about his ability to see the dead in childhood, how he locked it up at nine with the help of his grandmother, and how it unlocked the ability.
52:51 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Li Roy pressure him into using the ability to find the pillars, when Haloran refuses,
52:59 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So my deep dive in this part was I had to look up because he just he makes this offhanded comment about a bottle of pap and I could not get a really clear look at the label but I was trying to like is he talking about a papy van winkle and so I went on the because papy van winkle is this right at this point in our history it is this super
53:24 --> 53:28 [SPEAKER_01]: expensive coveted type of whiskey.
53:28 --> 53:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we talked about it more in our She-Hoke coverage in the Lohan's feed.
53:32 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And this, so I was wondering about this, but at the time, the men, after whom Peppy Van Winkle was named, was alive.
53:42 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't find whether they were actually calling the whiskey that at that point, I guess so, but it definitely, it would not have been as expensive and exclusive.
53:51 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what he was drinking for whiskey, aficionados.
53:55 --> 53:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me know if you have anything to add to that.
54:00 --> 54:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, it's telling me that it was, it was more standardly priced in 1963 than it is now.
54:05 --> 54:09 [SPEAKER_03]: It was not a, not a big luxury item.
54:11 --> 54:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, cool.
54:13 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_03]: It's only a $40 to $70 today.
54:15 --> 54:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So, all right, that's standard model of whiskey.
54:18 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
54:20 --> 54:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So where is now it's like that was it and stick it on yeah.
54:23 --> 54:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh.
54:24 --> 54:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh wow that's fancy bourbon So My thoughts on this oh I wanted to point out real quick.
54:30 --> 54:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I just say one thing about the little we were saying we're afraid for rich
54:35 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Rich throws a paper airplane and it goes into the sewer and it's very Georgie coded with a paper boat and so I I think Alicia you may have said oh I'm afraid for that paper airplane but was I One of you guys say that a couple of times.
54:50 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a couple of episodes ago and here we go so uh oh But so I have some questions about the shine
54:59 --> 55:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Because this is, we learn what that was Pennywise sort of, not Pennywise, but it inhabiting his grandfather, co-sing him, you know, kind of opening the proverbial slash literal box at the end of last episode.
55:16 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_04]: But what I'm confused about, what doesn't quite make sense is my understanding of the way this lockbox works and in Dr. Sleep specifically is,
55:27 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_04]: You kind of, you go around, you see a ghost, you throw the trap, you ray, stands, steps on the trap, and the ghost goes in the trap, and you bring them, and then it gets put in the containment unit.
55:39 --> 55:49 [SPEAKER_04]: But he makes it seem like he did this lockbox, and then just stop seeing ghosts, which is weird that doesn't seem,
55:49 --> 55:50 [SPEAKER_04]: to make sense.
55:50 --> 55:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't he just be kind of going around locking them up as he finds them?
55:54 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_01]: If I get my thoughts on the way, his ability is the way I interpreted the way, and I understand that this might be this is different than the way it's described in the books, but the way I interpreted the way he talked about it in this episode was locking away his ability.
56:09 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_04]: That's interesting.
56:10 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So he loses the shine so to speak, or at least aspects of the shine.
56:17 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Which is, yeah, which is very different from how he or Danny used the same power in Dr. Sleep.
56:28 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Because essentially, it's just like a skill that he has to get rid of naughty ghosts.
56:34 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_04]: right and and sure opening them would be bad but the idea that opening them releases like is is what allows him to see ghosts again is is just a little it's a little sticky to me.
56:47 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't quite follow um because he still obviously has the psychic sensitivity without it.
56:54 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
56:54 --> 56:55 [SPEAKER_04]: But hmm
56:56 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I will say that having not read Dr. Sleep, having only read the shining where it's, it's very soft, the magic system, right?
57:04 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_03]: The whole shine magic system in the shining is pretty soft.
57:09 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I was not bothered by it, but I see if you have a different, you know, lore system in your head, it would bother you.
57:18 --> 57:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think the lock box is a thing at all in the, in the, no, I don't remember it at all.
57:24 --> 57:29 [SPEAKER_04]: For a book called The Shining of the Shining is a very minor part.
57:29 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not really about that, yeah.
57:31 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, it's just about, I mean, I think this more thing about the Shining, because okay, so for anyone who doesn't know, you sure you've heard of the Shining, at least the Stanley Kubrick movie, and then Dr. Sleep is kind of like the most direct sequel,
57:46 --> 57:50 [SPEAKER_01]: that Stephen King's kind of done outside of something like the Dark Tower series.
57:51 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's the kid in the shining is an adult, and Dr. Sleep.
57:56 --> 58:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that they, you know, as a kid, you just accept, this is the way things are.
58:02 --> 58:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And as an adult, you demand explanations.
58:06 --> 58:06 [SPEAKER_01]: If that makes sense.
58:07 --> 58:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure, because Danny, the main character of Dr. Sleep is Danny,
58:16 --> 58:41 [SPEAKER_04]: read a reborn and others are going to write in and be like there's so many more sequels yes there are other sequels the holly give me is in like fifty books at this point and there's a whole trilogy and stuff so are any of them that this direct outside of course you know his obvious series well there's someone's that are set become series right so like there's a there's a steven king has become very into interconnected
58:42 --> 58:42 [SPEAKER_04]: What's it?
58:42 --> 58:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, sure, but that's been a while.
58:44 --> 58:48 [SPEAKER_04]: But in the last decade or so, he's become very into sort of true crime kind of stuff.
58:48 --> 58:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And there's some supernatural, but sometimes none at all of murder mysteries and things like that.
58:54 --> 58:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And some of them are very much direct sequels to each other.
58:57 --> 59:04 [SPEAKER_04]: The Mr. Mercedes then has to direct sequels and then side stories and stuff.
59:04 --> 59:06 [SPEAKER_04]: So I have not read those.
59:07 --> 59:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so the the outsider was one that became an HBO TV show and for example, I think Mr. Mercedes was a TV show too.
59:13 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't I am the outsider I'm familiar with, but the outside is cool.
59:18 --> 59:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the the Mr.
59:19 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard a lot of people talk about this holly character.
59:22 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I've not read any of those books.
59:26 --> 59:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I have only barely.
59:27 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I've just watched, I've read just some of the side quest ones.
59:30 --> 59:31 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a whole series.
59:32 --> 59:32 [SPEAKER_04]: But anyways, yeah.
59:32 --> 59:35 [SPEAKER_04]: So we know there are some sequels everybody.
59:36 --> 59:46 [SPEAKER_04]: But for the point stands, this is a very interesting thing for him 30 or whatever, 40 years later, to have written Dr. Sleep and fleshed out more of the,
59:47 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_04]: the lore and then them to then take that and use it and possibly change it but I don't know we'll see um maybe this is all kind of in alignment it's just a little I thought this part of the episode was a little bit.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, less polished, seeming than the rest of it.
01:00:08 --> 01:00:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I think the scene, the conversation between the two men made sense, like I was very much with them.
01:00:17 --> 01:00:21 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just sort of like, wait, what is, what is Dick actually saying?
01:00:21 --> 01:00:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, it's a little loose, and that's fine because that's not what this story is about.
01:00:26 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_04]: He's really more of a, this is an ancillary aspect,
01:00:32 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I mean, I understand them both.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I think Leroy is really feeling the pressure of, I just lost my best friend and he told me.
01:00:43 --> 01:00:44 [SPEAKER_03]: His dining words were make it count.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And now I have to do everything in my power.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:52 [SPEAKER_03]: But he's lost an aspect of his humanity where he can't see Hallor in as his own being.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:54 [SPEAKER_03]: He only sees him as a tool now.
01:00:55 --> 01:00:57 [SPEAKER_03]: and it's learning him of the court martial like he is.
01:00:58 --> 01:01:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I side more with Haloron on this of course because also because obviously we need to have we have the benefit of knowing more about it like this is not going to be a good thing to try to leash him.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:12 [SPEAKER_04]: It's also a little like.
01:01:12 --> 01:01:17 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to be arrested because you won't use your supernatural powers in this very specific way.
01:01:17 --> 01:01:19 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like that's going to be confusing.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:24 [SPEAKER_04]: A court martial is an actual court of military people that like, what are you going to explain to them about this?
01:01:24 --> 01:01:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I don't know man.
01:01:25 --> 01:01:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I went down in the sewers.
01:01:26 --> 01:01:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I did everything you asked.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Now you're asking me to do this very specific thing that nobody understands.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It's what is he really even?
01:01:33 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_04]: What is his dereliction of duty, right?
01:01:35 --> 01:01:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Because he won't reveal the, he won't ask the ghosts a certain question.
01:01:40 --> 01:01:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Like that's, it did help.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Did Shah really say, have him ask the ghosts where the pillars are or whatever.
01:01:47 --> 01:01:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's just probably just, you have him using his powers again.
01:01:50 --> 01:01:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I have to ask you, couldn't he just like close his eyes, shake a little bit and say, nobody knew, right?
01:01:55 --> 01:01:56 [SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
01:01:57 --> 01:01:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Not a goody, nobody could verify this.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, all right.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's move on because we got a time budget here to the black spot, Alicia, can you tell us?
01:02:08 --> 01:02:13 [SPEAKER_01]: The best way to hide a fugitive in the house is apparently to throw a party, according to the show.
01:02:13 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a bar.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but you can't close down for two days.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:19 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, isn't that more suspicious?
01:02:19 --> 01:02:21 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not an actual bar.
01:02:21 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a place where they have parties.
01:02:23 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, we got a tough mission in a couple days.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_03]: We got to rest up.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_03]: That's it.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:27 [SPEAKER_03]: You're not.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:29 [SPEAKER_03]: It's literally never open before.
01:02:29 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll we're still setting up.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Great.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad that they got to have their fun.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, then that's exactly what Dick Halorin's friends do.
01:02:40 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Ronnie is reunited with her father who spends some time getting to know Will, the drummer of the band, drinks himself to sleep so rich, who got a little tipsy with an Air Force Coke, fills in on the drums.
01:02:51 --> 01:03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone has a good time until a group of masked men led by the former sheriff arrived to collect Hank Grogan based
01:03:03 --> 01:03:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, we have that fall that you were looking for from, from Bauer's senior, Mark.
01:03:12 --> 01:03:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, I'm scribbling notes about the whole drummer's scene.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_04]: So, I'm saying that again.
01:03:19 --> 01:03:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, no, yeah, just we, we have that, that, um, fall of, you know, you were talking about the powers falling, uh, and, and I do know in the novel, it is true that, um, what's his name, what's, what's, uh, this current powers hadn't re-bours father's name, this current powers son.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, he, he was not a, he was not a police officer in the novel.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I am, that, that's been confirmed, but he was in the movie version, the new movie version.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:50 [SPEAKER_04]: So your powers by the way.
01:03:51 --> 01:03:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Butch is named.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Butch powers.
01:03:54 --> 01:04:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Or Oscar Butch, I think like the Gallen Butch, which is, you know, very of the era.
01:04:01 --> 01:04:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:04:02 --> 01:04:14 [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, we also learned he was a, he is a pointed, apparently at the pleasure of the mayor, um,
01:04:14 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Again, makes that sign that's old and decayed and wouldn't.
01:04:17 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_04]: And like the permanent stuff that is very strange kind of, but there we go, this is that kind of town, right?
01:04:24 --> 01:04:27 [SPEAKER_04]: He's had that job for a long time, and then he lost it in a moment, apparently.
01:04:28 --> 01:04:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, he's, he's, he's real mad.
01:04:32 --> 01:04:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I was so worried when Hank said to Ronnie, ain't no one gonna keep us apart ever again.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, no, that means they're both gonna die.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:41 [SPEAKER_03]: probably.
01:04:43 --> 01:04:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, all of these are, it is not defeated, right?
01:04:46 --> 01:04:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it probably eats every time.
01:04:48 --> 01:04:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it eats or it, I don't know.
01:04:51 --> 01:05:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I feel like you would cheapen it if they sent him back early because it seems so shocked when the losers club beat it the first time even.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:03 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, when they beat it back a little bit.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking forward to just like, and we can talk about ingrid, ingrid is like a different version of the person under its thrall, right?
01:05:13 --> 01:05:19 [SPEAKER_04]: We have Henry Bowers in the, in the later series, you've got Renfield in Dracula.
01:05:19 --> 01:05:26 [SPEAKER_04]: You've got these different, like I'm looking forward, just like I'm like that we have a different version of the obsessed person.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_04]: we can get a different version of what puts it back in the sewers right and maybe one of these seasons everybody outright fails maybe we'll get a sort of semi-victory like we have in your chapter one like I'm kind of looking forward to to different ways of the cycle ending
01:05:54 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I just don't want him to be beaten back much, right?
01:05:58 --> 01:06:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I want, I want, I'm rooting for the kids to die here.
01:06:01 --> 01:06:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm just kidding, but I'm rooting for it to eat and go to sleep, right?
01:06:06 --> 01:06:15 [SPEAKER_03]: To see how despite the best efforts and despite all these like different circumstances, no one was able to really beat back it until the loser's club.
01:06:17 --> 01:06:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, we do need an explanation as to why it appears weaker and it's power slightly in the later parts of the timeline.
01:06:26 --> 01:06:27 [SPEAKER_04]: That's crazy writing.
01:06:28 --> 01:06:28 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That is never the answer.
01:06:31 --> 01:06:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I still think I just think it being in multiple places at once in that one episode, literally like as Maddie, because like all of those things, I think that
01:06:42 --> 01:06:44 [SPEAKER_04]: that's not supposed to be written to.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's, I'm not gonna say lazy writing, but like, convenient writing.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:57 [SPEAKER_04]: We want Matti to be doing this and not, you know, remember, doesn't like, Pennywise's eyes slip and start looking in weird directions when he's impersonating somebody in the movies.
01:06:57 --> 01:07:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, there's just like, telltale signs when Pennywise is inhabiting a human formula.
01:07:03 --> 01:07:04 [SPEAKER_04]: He there's just something creepy about him.
01:07:05 --> 01:07:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And that wasn't as true with Matti and he was talking, you know, doing stuff with Hallerander in that,
01:07:11 --> 01:07:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I think we could interpret this, chairidably as expanded powers or it's just, they want to do something and they're not really worried about it.
01:07:20 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The fact that the children of material when they were having their lower meeting in the prior episode, the fact that they said that prior cycles were worse than this one has been, I think that does support the idea that
01:07:37 --> 01:08:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Pennywise has been stronger in the past and maybe is beaten down over time by just different groups coming together in different generations to fight him maybe it or it's just this is the stronger than the last few that we have in in our memory and and we don't know is this stronger than the one in nineteen eighties we don't know, you know, it's it's
01:08:02 --> 01:08:09 [SPEAKER_04]: sort of an unprovable theory, but we'll see if they give us some more evidence to really think that's true.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, question for you guys.
01:08:12 --> 01:08:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, Jean was saying in the discord, and I completely get where he's coming from, that it's like that it would be very ill-advised for a black bar to have white children there, and then on top of that, be feeding them quote-unquote Air Force Cokes.
01:08:32 --> 01:08:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It is, I mean, it is hilarious and I do think, and this is also, you know, I grew up as a white child that it's not out of the question that adults would do that.
01:08:41 --> 01:08:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I do agree that it's not the smartest thing.
01:08:45 --> 01:08:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, most of these people don't know that they're hiding Hank Grogan in the back, but it's just another thing to
01:08:51 --> 01:09:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Another strike against them if someone walks in as is happening at the end of this episode, but they are all, of course, under the influence of that juicy it water that Pennywise, what did they call it?
01:09:06 --> 01:09:07 [SPEAKER_01]: What did that, did you put it?
01:09:08 --> 01:09:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Like discharge or something?
01:09:11 --> 01:09:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's horrendous.
01:09:12 --> 01:09:13 [SPEAKER_03]: That's horrendous.
01:09:14 --> 01:09:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I, you know, I'm going to say this.
01:09:15 --> 01:09:20 [SPEAKER_03]: My uncle likes to tell the story about how his
01:09:20 --> 01:09:32 [SPEAKER_03]: his grandpa had him drive from Brooklyn to Eastern Long Island when he was like 12 years old it his car because he's like, I don't feel like driving an amtired.
01:09:33 --> 01:09:34 [SPEAKER_03]: You drive all the way out the riverhead.
01:09:34 --> 01:09:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I just think that people were a lot more free with children than I can give them privileges in the
01:09:43 --> 01:09:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I think that's what's happening here because you were saying is this normal.
01:09:47 --> 01:09:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I think this is like relatively normal 60s.
01:09:51 --> 01:09:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that mean there is the extra racial component.
01:09:54 --> 01:09:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nice.
01:09:55 --> 01:09:55 [SPEAKER_03]: It's still boneheaded.
01:09:56 --> 01:10:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I still, I want to do it because this isn't about them.
01:10:01 --> 01:10:05 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's not, you know, I didn't read John's comment, but it's not.
01:10:06 --> 01:10:10 [SPEAKER_04]: about the moral morality and all that's not right given kids alcohol.
01:10:10 --> 01:10:23 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just you're incurring so much risk upon your operation by getting this white girl presenting white girl and this Cuban-American little boy drunk or something at this party like that.
01:10:24 --> 01:10:35 [SPEAKER_04]: It is I really hope that guy didn't know that Hank is in the back because that would be really boneheaded.
01:10:36 --> 01:10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and his yeah, I love the I was one of my best friends in high school with the jazz drummer So I was like, oh, I know those those sticks if you can call them sticks the brushes brushes It was funny seem through it away though.
01:10:50 --> 01:10:52 [SPEAKER_04]: So I know John your musician.
01:10:52 --> 01:10:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I have heard you sing Alicia and you sing quite nice So you must be sort of a musician
01:10:58 --> 01:11:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I, these kind of scenes, I kinda, I can't, like, I'm fine, I get it, people like them, but like, this to me is the scene in the biopic where,
01:11:09 --> 01:11:18 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, Ray, Jamie Fox is Ray Charles is having an argument with somebody and then writes the lyrics while they're in the argument and starts singing hit the road jack in the middle of it.
01:11:18 --> 01:11:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I just keep, I know jazz is improvisational, but the amount of practice it takes to be good at any of this and he, so let's just assume we have a prodigious jazz drummer in the losers club.
01:11:32 --> 01:11:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's just say that that's true.
01:11:34 --> 01:11:40 [SPEAKER_01]: He He's not a jazz drummer though, because he was in the march through way through way through the brushes.
01:11:40 --> 01:11:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's in the marching band.
01:11:42 --> 01:11:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe he doesn't have that kind of experience with a drum.
01:11:46 --> 01:11:53 [SPEAKER_04]: So he shouldn't be good with the the kick drum, you know, so like others just these kind of scenes break the like I would love it if
01:11:54 --> 01:11:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, okay, he's a, he's a marching man guy.
01:11:56 --> 01:11:59 [SPEAKER_04]: He just chills on the snare and does like marching beats while they play.
01:11:59 --> 01:12:03 [SPEAKER_04]: That would be, I love when there's reality in there.
01:12:03 --> 01:12:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think it was, there was some, and I wish I could remember it, but there was some element in Agatha all along when they had that jam session that had like a reality to it.
01:12:14 --> 01:12:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, or.
01:12:16 --> 01:12:33 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember what it was at all, but I remember being like Kudos and I had a whole series of commentary about the use of pitch correction or lack of pitch correction the way you write a harmony part improvised in that show that was very much mostly better than most.
01:12:34 --> 01:12:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And this one, I'm like, I get it.
01:12:36 --> 01:12:37 [SPEAKER_04]: It's fun.
01:12:37 --> 01:12:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I love Rich as a character, he's probably my favorite of the little kids, but
01:12:42 --> 01:12:58 [SPEAKER_04]: This is just like, oh, it's just, it's, it's, it's trying to annoy me when they do this kind of stuff because I'm like, do you have any idea how hard it is to get my music majors who are 20 somethings mostly to play in time for like one concert that we've been rehearsing for 15 weeks on.
01:12:58 --> 01:13:01 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, whatever, though, it's movie magic.
01:13:01 --> 01:13:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I, I, I, I, I was remarked it took me out of it a little bit, but then I was like, ah, dig of the song.
01:13:07 --> 01:13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was telling my hair, but you're not wrong.
01:13:09 --> 01:13:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:13:11 --> 01:13:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And we can move on.
01:13:11 --> 01:13:12 [SPEAKER_04]: It is what it is.
01:13:12 --> 01:13:13 [SPEAKER_04]: This is a concession.
01:13:13 --> 01:13:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, but like, maybe I need to create a podcast episode about this.
01:13:18 --> 01:13:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, this stuff actually has negative effects on my career, not mine literally.
01:13:26 --> 01:13:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Expect that they should be able to do this.
01:13:28 --> 01:13:30 [SPEAKER_04]: People think it's easy, right?
01:13:30 --> 01:13:33 [SPEAKER_04]: People have trained, like,
01:13:33 --> 01:13:34 [SPEAKER_04]: People are like, oh, I can play.
01:13:34 --> 01:13:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I can do that.
01:13:35 --> 01:13:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I can do it.
01:13:36 --> 01:13:37 [SPEAKER_04]: I just don't want to.
01:13:37 --> 01:13:37 [SPEAKER_04]: I can write songs.
01:13:37 --> 01:13:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I just don't, you know, what actually it took me decades to get good at that.
01:13:42 --> 01:13:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
01:13:42 --> 01:13:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So it is what it is.
01:13:43 --> 01:13:45 [SPEAKER_04]: This is not so.
01:13:45 --> 01:13:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So box, but.
01:13:46 --> 01:13:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, just a personal anecdote to that regard.
01:13:50 --> 01:14:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So I, I, my ex really wanted to learn the drum kit and so I bought him a drum kit and he was taking lessons for a long time and you know, it's, it's, it's hard to learn something.
01:14:00 --> 01:14:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But there are some people who are just prodigies one of, one of my best friends comes in one day.
01:14:06 --> 01:14:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And he does not play the drums.
01:14:08 --> 01:14:11 [SPEAKER_01]: He plays, uh, bass guitars as main instrument.
01:14:11 --> 01:14:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But he's just one of those people who can pick up an instrument and just like,
01:14:14 --> 01:14:15 [SPEAKER_01]: do things with it.
01:14:16 --> 01:14:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he sits down at the drum kit for the first time.
01:14:18 --> 01:14:25 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, oh, let me try this and you know, he was like rich in that scene, even though he didn't have that background.
01:14:25 --> 01:14:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, and then my, and then my ex quit after that.
01:14:30 --> 01:14:35 [SPEAKER_03]: But there is this coordination with others that you cannot do that, obviously.
01:14:36 --> 01:14:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, no, no.
01:14:36 --> 01:14:39 [SPEAKER_03]: The fact that he knows where to take a solo, the fact that he bars.
01:14:40 --> 01:14:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he bars with the, and you only do that by playing jazz with the right.
01:14:43 --> 01:14:46 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, yeah, it's not even just individual practice.
01:14:46 --> 01:14:49 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's, it's, did you guys get tight in for her soul?
01:14:49 --> 01:14:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, so I see what Mark's saying here.
01:14:51 --> 01:14:54 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, anyway, we're, we're, we're running low on time.
01:14:54 --> 01:14:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And we got a big scene to talk about.
01:14:55 --> 01:14:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So I want to move on Mark, can you read us a little bit in the clowns?
01:14:58 --> 01:15:02 [SPEAKER_04]: After being haunted by Pennywise at school, Lily goes to Ingrid for advice.
01:15:02 --> 01:15:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Finding the door open, she follows music upstairs and goes through an old photo album.
01:15:07 --> 01:15:13 [SPEAKER_04]: In the album, she finds a picture of Ingrid's father, who has an eerily familiar head shape.
01:15:13 --> 01:15:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Ingrid arrives and sees Lily get scared of a picture of Pennywise.
01:15:17 --> 01:15:21 [SPEAKER_04]: She tells her that Pennywise, the dancing clown, was her father's clown persona.
01:15:22 --> 01:15:31 [SPEAKER_04]: She lost him in 1908 and saw him again in 1935 when she led a girl named Mabel to her death in the basement of Juniper Hill.
01:15:31 --> 01:15:37 [SPEAKER_04]: In 1935, after watching Pennywise kill Mabel, she sees him as her father without the makeup.
01:15:38 --> 01:15:39 [SPEAKER_04]: And he reassures her.
01:15:39 --> 01:15:45 [SPEAKER_04]: In the present, she's thrilled that Lily saw Pennywise as she thinks Lily brought him back.
01:15:46 --> 01:15:51 [SPEAKER_04]: She shows Lily her costume, and Lily realizes Ingrid was following them as a clown.
01:15:51 --> 01:15:56 [SPEAKER_04]: She wants Pennywise to see her as the clown Perry winkle, so their love can be shared.
01:15:56 --> 01:15:58 [SPEAKER_04]: and he will be freed from the darkness.
01:15:58 --> 01:16:06 [SPEAKER_04]: As Ingrid tries to embrace Lily, Lily slashes Ingrid's hand with the black dagger and rides away on her bike, screaming.
01:16:09 --> 01:16:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I love how Ingrid sees Pennywise E. to kiddin's like, I can fix him.
01:16:14 --> 01:16:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the delulu goes hard.
01:16:16 --> 01:16:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that moment when she first sees, you know, the Pennywise form of it and says Papa, which by the way, they're totally Danish coding her.
01:16:27 --> 01:16:29 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a Danish song playing when she walks in.
01:16:29 --> 01:16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: She calls him father, although I guess in modern Danish, they'd say,
01:16:36 --> 01:16:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Pennywise looks up and first is just like who are you and then like oh, I can use this that Faye that look that comes over Bill Skarsgard's face is just giggle.
01:16:48 --> 01:16:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah his his giggle of the light.
01:16:51 --> 01:16:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I was like
01:16:52 --> 01:17:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I was watching this with Maya and she was working on an art project and so I watched it first without her because I just needed to get a done talking outline and then we didn't rewatch together and when that was coming I was like just watch this part just look up for this part because you have to see his his giggle of delight
01:17:07 --> 01:17:19 [SPEAKER_04]: it's going to be really cool in either future flashbacks or possibly third season to get to see two different characterizations of Pennywise by Scar's Guard.
01:17:19 --> 01:17:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Like we're going to get to we've seen unhinged demon Pennywise, which is not Pennywise at all, but just a form of it.
01:17:28 --> 01:17:32 [SPEAKER_04]: But then are we going to get to just see the clown Robert Gray, who's probably a
01:17:33 --> 01:17:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Cool guy, you know, like she seems to love her father, right?
01:17:36 --> 01:17:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe they were a homicidal maniacs, but maybe he was just a clown and we're gonna get to see possibly in the same scene like looking at each other, Pennywise, the dancing clown in real life, acting differently than Pennywise, the dancing extra-dimensional monster, right?
01:17:54 --> 01:17:58 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's really kind of a cool thing we get.
01:17:59 --> 01:18:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we have to wait two seasons for it,
01:18:03 --> 01:18:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:18:03 --> 01:18:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think just to clarify for people, because I know there is some confusion about this online, but ingrid.
01:18:13 --> 01:18:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Pennywise, I guess we will get clarification in the show, but this version of it that we see is mimicking her father.
01:18:21 --> 01:18:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It is not, in fact, her father.
01:18:23 --> 01:18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's the same way we see Mrs. Cursh in the second movie.
01:18:28 --> 01:18:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not Mrs. Cursh.
01:18:30 --> 01:18:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that Pennywise has taken or, you know, it's the entity has taken on a new form in his repertoire based on her.
01:18:38 --> 01:18:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I think he just had so much fun with this reveal, like, like, I think for a cosmic entity, this is a new experience for him and he was delighted by that, right?
01:18:48 --> 01:18:56 [SPEAKER_03]: For someone to mistake him as their father, he was like, oh, you shit, this is great.
01:18:56 --> 01:19:00 [SPEAKER_04]: And we don't, this implies sort of that.
01:19:00 --> 01:19:04 [SPEAKER_04]: He maybe didn't start that moment recognizing her, right?
01:19:04 --> 01:19:08 [SPEAKER_04]: So maybe in 1908, she is not a kid he terrorizes, right?
01:19:09 --> 01:19:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Or if so, he doesn't put two and two together, really.
01:19:13 --> 01:19:16 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I thought that was a great moment.
01:19:17 --> 01:19:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Do we think, Ingrid is just nuts?
01:19:22 --> 01:19:35 [SPEAKER_04]: or is like, you know, this sort of delusional, you could see somebody with a sort of having a mental break losing their father and then seeing this as a kind of weird way of preserving his legacy.
01:19:35 --> 01:19:37 [SPEAKER_04]: I get to see him again, even if it's not really him.
01:19:38 --> 01:19:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Or is she evil?
01:19:40 --> 01:19:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Is she like working?
01:19:41 --> 01:19:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I-I think she did see that it is.
01:19:43 --> 01:19:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think she thinks that it is really her father.
01:19:46 --> 01:19:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:19:47 --> 01:19:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And he's under a spell or something.
01:19:49 --> 01:19:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
01:19:49 --> 01:19:51 [SPEAKER_03]: He's he's been a fan tourism or something.
01:19:51 --> 01:19:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:19:51 --> 01:20:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Do we think in the 30s he is gathering kids for him to consume or does she just watch this one murder and now she's been chasing that ever since.
01:20:02 --> 01:20:06 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I think she's gathering because she said she said it were going I did what I did to see him again.
01:20:06 --> 01:20:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:20:07 --> 01:20:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I know I had to see him again.
01:20:08 --> 01:20:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was right.
01:20:09 --> 01:20:14 [SPEAKER_01]: This cast the fact that she said to Lily in a prior episode, keep your friends close.
01:20:14 --> 01:20:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was wondering, I was like, is that particularly because I don't know, I'm suspicious of this woman.
01:20:19 --> 01:20:22 [SPEAKER_01]: This cast that in a whole new light because here she pretty much him.
01:20:23 --> 01:20:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That and how does she think that she can protect Lily and not the other?
01:20:27 --> 01:20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Like she is completely dilulu.
01:20:30 --> 01:20:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I was just going to say, this is a cool.
01:20:32 --> 01:20:36 [SPEAKER_04]: We all have been talking about I can't imagine how
01:20:36 --> 01:20:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Alicia caught it or whoever it was caught it a few episodes ago with oh there was a little a young clown that must be her like the fact is this aspect of it is very clever like whether people saw it coming that she is Bob Gray's daughter like I didn't catch all that and I know folks did but just the
01:20:56 --> 01:20:57 [SPEAKER_04]: This is her relation.
01:20:57 --> 01:21:00 [SPEAKER_04]: It's this quest to see your dad again.
01:21:00 --> 01:21:03 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just a unique, I really didn't see it coming.
01:21:03 --> 01:21:06 [SPEAKER_04]: And obviously, that was in the details.
01:21:06 --> 01:21:07 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll see how it gets executed.
01:21:07 --> 01:21:16 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's like a cool twist on the thrall that Pennywise will often have.
01:21:16 --> 01:21:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Or that horror villains, supernatural, and particular horror villains often have.
01:21:21 --> 01:21:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So by the way, people were saying she wasn't old enough
01:21:25 --> 01:21:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know how old the actor is?
01:21:27 --> 01:21:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we talked about it in her 60s, right?
01:21:29 --> 01:21:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 67.
01:21:30 --> 01:21:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay, okay, you talked about this, but I wasn't here.
01:21:33 --> 01:21:34 [SPEAKER_03]: I, I, I, she looks great.
01:21:35 --> 01:21:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:21:36 --> 01:21:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, I, I, I would do think so.
01:21:39 --> 01:21:52 [SPEAKER_04]: We do have a problem a little bit though, because if she's in her, let's say, let's say she's 70, which, there, I would say there's no way, but let's, because our presenting her is so much younger, but let's say she's 70.
01:21:52 --> 01:22:03 [SPEAKER_04]: 1962 how how young is is too young she old enough to be a little kid clown at that point
01:22:04 --> 01:22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Man, no, she's exactly the right, she's exactly the right.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
01:22:09 --> 01:22:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:22:09 --> 01:22:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:22:10 --> 01:22:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, I think that's going to be a wig at the end.
01:22:12 --> 01:22:18 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that her hair is going to be a wig and she's going to be like taking it off and like that's kind of what we call the wig.
01:22:18 --> 01:22:22 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm saying I think her her brown hair is a wig or black.
01:22:22 --> 01:22:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh oh.
01:22:23 --> 01:22:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And she's going to take that off to put on the the clown wig at some point and it's going to be spooky.
01:22:29 --> 01:22:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I just have to compliment the casting.
01:22:32 --> 01:22:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So like we got the ties with the older Mrs. Curse, which again, I think is actually the entity and not actually her, but the whole no one who dies here ever really dies.
01:22:42 --> 01:22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But the younger Mrs. Curse, the younger Ingrid that we saw in the 1935 flashback, I actually had to double check that they weren't just de-aging Madeline Stowe because the actress looks exactly like her.
01:22:57 --> 01:22:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they did a good job with the casting.
01:22:59 --> 01:23:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I think casting like that has gotten a lot better in recent years for some reason.
01:23:04 --> 01:23:11 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what changed, but the last few movies I've seen where they do a flashback, I'm like, oh, that's good casting for the younger one.
01:23:11 --> 01:23:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Alicia, did you have anything else you wanted to say about this last scene before we move on to feedback?
01:23:16 --> 01:23:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm just curious how much, because there's telling so much of an Ingrid's story now and they have set, I mean, they've set casting like obviously the actress who plays her in the 50s can play her in season two.
01:23:29 --> 01:23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: The child actress will have aged out by season three in 1908.
01:23:33 --> 01:23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just wonder how involved she's going to be in those parts of the story or if we just get references to that because it's like, well, you know that now.
01:23:42 --> 01:23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to tell you new parts of the story.
01:23:44 --> 01:23:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I think in 1908, she's going to be a big part of the story.
01:23:47 --> 01:23:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe not in 1908.
01:23:48 --> 01:23:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I don't know, because she's going to be a part of 1935, right?
01:23:51 --> 01:23:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:23:52 --> 01:23:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I do think Ingrid is going to be our bridge character for these three things.
01:23:55 --> 01:23:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Actually.
01:23:56 --> 01:24:02 [SPEAKER_04]: But it is, it is cool how like in the same way, oh, and I meant to comment on this like.
01:24:02 --> 01:24:15 [SPEAKER_04]: We had that montage, the musical montage, while they're showing the wanted posters of Hank and clearly the townspeople are paying so much more attention to chasing the criminal than all the missing kids posters.
01:24:16 --> 01:24:22 [SPEAKER_04]: It's quite possible that we're just sort of left to understand that that's happening and we see all these disappearances.
01:24:22 --> 01:24:24 [SPEAKER_04]: We hear of enabled disappear in 1935.
01:24:25 --> 01:24:26 [SPEAKER_04]: All these things,
01:24:26 --> 01:24:54 [SPEAKER_04]: it they may do it where we're just we understand that it's ingrid involved but we they could not use her much or she could be the main sort of adult character we see so they could go they could go in either direction I would think pretty reasonably alright well this has been another wonderful episode we're gonna let Mark go and then Alicia and I are going to take care of feedback this week
01:24:55 --> 01:24:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, all the young people have bossed and aren't going to teach themselves.
01:25:00 --> 01:25:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that.
01:25:00 --> 01:25:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Common tone diminished seven chords two weeks before the final exam.
01:25:03 --> 01:25:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So see, you guys me of making up words.
01:25:07 --> 01:25:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
01:25:07 --> 01:25:08 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't even know.
01:25:08 --> 01:25:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I could show off.
01:25:09 --> 01:25:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So with my undergraduate music theory stuff that is only.
01:25:13 --> 01:25:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Takes two semesters to learn hardly anything.
01:25:18 --> 01:25:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Check out, never mind the music this week.
01:25:19 --> 01:25:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody, we're doing Lionel Richie.
01:25:22 --> 01:25:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
01:25:23 --> 01:25:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
01:25:26 --> 01:25:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Is it?
01:25:26 --> 01:25:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
01:25:27 --> 01:25:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like that you're that goes with with Richie's, maybe I just don't know what let over her.
01:25:31 --> 01:25:32 [SPEAKER_02]: She sounds like really fun.
01:25:33 --> 01:25:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you've heard this song.
01:25:35 --> 01:25:40 [SPEAKER_04]: If only because it, I think it's in trolls or something like that, and I'm sure you've seen that.
01:25:42 --> 01:25:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So, alright everybody, this was a fun episode of Looking forward to tomorrow.
01:25:47 --> 01:25:48 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, see you later, Mark.
01:25:48 --> 01:25:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Check out number one of the music.
01:25:50 --> 01:25:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Alicia, it is you and me for feedback.
01:25:53 --> 01:25:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna read gyms because I'm gonna make you read dopamine is cause one of them.
01:25:58 --> 01:26:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is, this is gyms as a follow-up on, we had previously talked about what the barrens are and and gyms shared his feedback, which we shared, Mark and I in a prior episode and said this is a follow-up on that.
01:26:12 --> 01:26:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:26:13 --> 01:26:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So Jim Wright, by the way, you can send an email just like Jim and dopamine he did to horror at thelorhands.com, or you can tag us on the discord and say, hey, I want this included feedback.
01:26:26 --> 01:26:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Jim Wrights, when I first read it, I remember struggling with what a standpipe looked like.
01:26:30 --> 01:26:33 [SPEAKER_03]: I also did not have a clear picture of the barons.
01:26:34 --> 01:26:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Finally, a few years ago, I got to go to Bangor and do the SK tours.
01:26:39 --> 01:26:46 [SPEAKER_03]: They take you around Bangor on a bus and show you all the landmarks and see the kings books that are in Bangor.
01:26:47 --> 01:26:55 [SPEAKER_03]: There is a giant Paul Bunyan statue, Beb's house, the dream where George is taken and of course the stampipe and the barons.
01:26:56 --> 01:27:03 [SPEAKER_03]: The barons is a small stream that winds through the middle of Bangor and empties into the
01:27:04 --> 01:27:04 [SPEAKER_03]: on both sides.
01:27:05 --> 01:27:06 [SPEAKER_03]: There are some wooden areas.
01:27:06 --> 01:27:12 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the that's the balance of great place for kids to go and get away from adults, but still be right in the middle of town.
01:27:13 --> 01:27:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, so actually we this is literally the same email that we read on a priori.
01:27:18 --> 01:27:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, is it?
01:27:18 --> 01:27:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:27:19 --> 01:27:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's so he said the second email is thanks for reading my email in the last podcast.
01:27:24 --> 01:27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: We did the tour back in September of 2022.
01:27:27 --> 01:27:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The operator mentioned that the producers and director of the It movies were coming to do the tour in a few weeks that there was going to be a new series called Welcome to Dairy.
01:27:37 --> 01:27:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And they wanted to see Bangor Dairy before they got it started on it.
01:27:42 --> 01:27:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's cool that the creators and producers did the same tour that Jim did.
01:27:49 --> 01:27:52 [SPEAKER_03]: That is cool, and sorry, I read your email twice, Jim.
01:27:53 --> 01:27:57 [SPEAKER_03]: I must have clicked into the new email, but it had the old email first, and so I copied that.
01:27:58 --> 01:28:00 [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for writing in twice now.
01:28:02 --> 01:28:05 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, well, Alicia, it's time to talk about some drugs.
01:28:06 --> 01:28:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you want me to say all the drug names?
01:28:09 --> 01:28:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Look, if you want to split this up, we can.
01:28:12 --> 01:28:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Wait, when you get tired of saying them, I'll just pass along.
01:28:15 --> 01:28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll say the drug names the way you speak French.
01:28:18 --> 01:28:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, Laura Hounds, let's talk.
01:28:19 --> 01:28:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Benzodayab's a beans.
01:28:21 --> 01:28:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, I'm not going to do that.
01:28:22 --> 01:28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: My voice is already breaking.
01:28:24 --> 01:28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's specifically Xanx, Alora Zolam.
01:28:29 --> 01:28:32 [SPEAKER_03]: You'll work better for that one, because it has Alora.
01:28:32 --> 01:28:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't
01:28:56 --> 01:29:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Questions about benzodiazepines were raised on the podcast episode five is Xanix a newer better version of valium can someone use benzodiazepines long-term without running into issues of physical dependence tolerance and or addiction?
01:29:10 --> 01:29:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm familiar enough with this class of drugs to feel confident speaking on this topic.
01:29:15 --> 01:29:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Please do not take any of this has medical advice.
01:29:18 --> 01:29:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And please never use benzodiazepines without the guidance of a psychiatrist who trust
01:29:23 --> 01:29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: and a therapist and or appropriate doctor-slash specialist.
01:29:28 --> 01:29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to modern Benzo Diazapinus, the exact nature of what is being treated is key.
01:29:37 --> 01:29:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I do agree completely with John's point from last week that prescribing quote unquote, Mother's Little Helper, Valyam, to women in the 60s, so a wife would be too drowsy to finish that blasted copy of the feminine mistake.
01:29:49 --> 01:29:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Her quote unquote, single friend, let her borrow and just get back to scrubbing pots with a smile already, was a real problem.
01:29:56 --> 01:29:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I may have put my own slidespan on your words there, John, wink.
01:30:01 --> 01:30:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Value is still very much in use, and I'll say Alicia, I have been prescribed value in the past, but I thought it was not in the US, so I don't really know what this situation is in the US.
01:30:15 --> 01:30:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So, don't be mean, it will tell us.
01:30:17 --> 01:30:26 [SPEAKER_01]: She says it has not been replaced by XNX as an updated version of benzodiazepine, however, they work differently, particularly in onset and duration.
01:30:27 --> 01:30:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Of the oral benzodiazepine, XNX is the most fast acting and has the shortest duration.
01:30:33 --> 01:30:40 [SPEAKER_01]: This makes it very effective for panic attacks, but also much more prone to addiction and abuse.
01:30:40 --> 01:30:45 [SPEAKER_01]: However, minority cases of abuse should not override the potentially life-saving value.
01:30:45 --> 01:30:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It offers people who suffer from panic attacks and other forms of anxiety that can have acute presentations such as PTSD.
01:30:53 --> 01:30:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Even those annexes is likely the most commonly recognized brand of Devon's Obayaz Bean.
01:30:59 --> 01:31:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Which I blame Carrie Fisher for, because she was cremated and then put in his annex bill.
01:31:05 --> 01:31:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, really?
01:31:06 --> 01:31:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, in an earned shape like his annex bill.
01:31:11 --> 01:31:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Psychiatrists are actually very reticent to prescribe it because of the abuse potential.
01:31:17 --> 01:31:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's unlikely a patient would be offered a prescription for Zannex, especially if they ask for it directly, unless they have established a great rapport and mutual trust with the psychiatrist over time, who knows they are also seeing a therapist.
01:31:30 --> 01:31:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm aware of discrimination and bias in prescribing practices around XNX in particular, wealthy and otherwise very privileged people can usually get it for something as trivial as discomfort with flying and men typically have an easier time getting it than women.
01:31:46 --> 01:31:58 [SPEAKER_01]: The stage of the provider's career matters too, even if you've been prescribed Xenox in the past, say in another city, used it with no complications and have a true need for it.
01:31:58 --> 01:32:16 [SPEAKER_01]: If you see a resident psychiatrist who has to explain and justify their treatment plan to the attending doctor on staff, they will be very unlikely to prescribe any benzodiazepine, because it could lead to a lecture they have to endure on screening out potential quote-unquote drug
01:32:16 --> 01:32:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Today, as a histamine, like hydroxazine are frequently offered to patients in place of benzodiazepines.
01:32:23 --> 01:32:31 [SPEAKER_01]: This keeps more patients being seen at clinics by nurses who do not have a DEA license to prescribe controlled substances.
01:32:32 --> 01:32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an issue in rural places like where I am from where doctors, especially psychiatrists and other specialists are few and far between.
01:32:39 --> 01:32:46 [SPEAKER_01]: You may only have
01:32:46 --> 01:32:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Patients in need often wind up self-medicating usually with alcohol, which we will return to shortly.
01:32:52 --> 01:33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: While marijuana works for some, don't forget that in states like where I live, mere possession or cultivation for personal use can still get a person locked in a cage.
01:33:01 --> 01:33:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Additionally, for many experiencing psychological issues that benzodiazepines can help regulate, marijuana can actually cause acute anxiety episodes, especially if there are co-morbid chronic illnesses and anxiety disorders.
01:33:16 --> 01:33:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll say I do find for me personally, marijuana is very effective against anxiety, but I have seen over my life that people react very differently to all drugs, but also
01:33:30 --> 01:33:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but before you continue, I just want to correct myself before somebody who's screaming at the computer has to write me an email.
01:33:38 --> 01:33:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Carrey Fisher was buried in a prozac urn, not as that next urn, big difference, that's an SSRI prozac.
01:33:45 --> 01:33:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:33:45 --> 01:33:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And she did it for a good reason, by the way, it wasn't just being sarcastic or glib.
01:33:50 --> 01:33:56 [SPEAKER_03]: She was saying, like, hey, let's normalize mental health and let's normalize people who need medication to function.
01:33:56 --> 01:34:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that it was honestly a brief thing that she did was to highlight that in the end.
01:34:03 --> 01:34:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:34:04 --> 01:34:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I seem to recall before she passed away that she was kind of debating with other celebrities about that, because she was open about it, and she was shamed for it by can't remember who now, and she was like, no, like, I don't know who, yeah, I can't remember anyway.
01:34:25 --> 01:34:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay, so continue of what Katie is saying, she says, value and comment are slower on set with a longer duration, making them much better options for people who need a benzodiazepine for longer term use, whether for anxiety or to help mitigate a different issue chronic or acute.
01:34:41 --> 01:34:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Valium, for example, is the go-to medication for people detoxing from alcohol, which really should be medically managed if at all possible.
01:34:49 --> 01:34:56 [SPEAKER_01]: If someone is truly physically addicted to alcohol, as this is the only drug that can kill a person during withdrawal.
01:34:57 --> 01:35:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is legal with only age restrictions here in the US where everything else discussed in this message is either
01:35:09 --> 01:35:18 [SPEAKER_01]: um, valiant, while an older benzodiazepine is still widely used for anxiety and has other uses people are likely not aware of.
01:35:18 --> 01:35:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a powerful muscle relaxer and can be made into a compounds suppository form for women with severe pelvic floor pain, which could arise after childbirth or be caused by the constant tension one experiences of living with an untreated painful
01:35:38 --> 01:35:40 [SPEAKER_01]: or endometriosis.
01:35:41 --> 01:35:44 [SPEAKER_01]: There are no psychoactive effects when used this way.
01:35:45 --> 01:35:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Valium is also used in some cases to treat seizures, and clonopin can be helpful with severe nausea, although there are both off-level, label, ways of using the drugs, and neither would be a first-line treatment for these conditions.
01:35:59 --> 01:36:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Clonopin is recognized for helping people whose nervous systems have become severely disfigulated due to disalthotin tonomea that can arise with some chronic illnesses, especially the invisible forever debilitating kind.
01:36:14 --> 01:36:29 [SPEAKER_01]: For example, people with thysal tonomea can experience prolonged disturbances in heart rate and blood pressure that clonopin seems to be the most effective
01:36:29 --> 01:36:40 [SPEAKER_01]: These physiological disturbances cannot be prevented by nor cured with yoga, meditation, therapy, nor exercise.
01:36:40 --> 01:36:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, there are cases when long-term benzodiazepine uses called for.
01:36:45 --> 01:36:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Further, it is possible to find a dose even a high dose that works long-term without ever needing a dose increase or an increased frequency of use.
01:36:55 --> 01:37:01 [SPEAKER_01]: At event, it's somewhere in the middle between Xenx and Valium, regarding speed of onset and length of duration.
01:37:01 --> 01:37:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It seems to be the most common benzodiazepine given to an ED setting if needed.
01:37:06 --> 01:37:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure what's ED.
01:37:10 --> 01:37:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Eating disorder?
01:37:12 --> 01:37:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I see.
01:37:13 --> 01:37:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
01:37:14 --> 01:37:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also commonly used in inpatient psychiatric hospitals like Juniper Hill.
01:37:19 --> 01:37:32 [SPEAKER_01]: If a patient has, for example, become violent, or needs a combo of several fast-acting medications in intramuscular shots in order to quickly sedate and thus protect the patient other patients and staff from potential injury.
01:37:33 --> 01:37:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Now that I think about it with context, I think that this is emergency department, not not...
01:37:39 --> 01:37:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
01:37:40 --> 01:37:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe let us know if I don't have a meaning to either eating disorder or emergency department.
01:37:44 --> 01:37:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not quite sure.
01:37:45 --> 01:37:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Because when that be ER, I don't know.
01:37:51 --> 01:37:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
01:37:52 --> 01:37:52 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
01:37:52 --> 01:37:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it is.
01:37:52 --> 01:37:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it is.
01:37:53 --> 01:37:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it is eating disorder.
01:37:54 --> 01:37:55 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
01:37:55 --> 01:37:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, well, well, yeah.
01:37:57 --> 01:38:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, speaking of Juniper Hill, I'd like to close with a little PSA.
01:38:02 --> 01:38:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Many patients in public, mental health facilities do not have access to appropriately sized clothes, and they can be in such facilities for a very long time, even years, if there is nowhere else for them to get care.
01:38:15 --> 01:38:31 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want an easy, fast way to do good, that makes an immediate impact and will cost you nothing but time, consider the next time you clean your closet out from old clothing, still in great condition, donating those clothes to a public psychiatric, impatient hospital.
01:38:32 --> 01:38:34 [SPEAKER_01]: These are usually state run.
01:38:34 --> 01:38:43 [SPEAKER_01]: although they may be part of a larger hospital system in your area, though I'm sure a very state-to-state hospital generally don't provide clothing to patients beyond what is donated.
01:38:44 --> 01:39:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We all deserve basic dignity and finding a clean, comfy, hoodie to slip, slip into or patients that actually fit rather than digging in or falling off during one of the most traumatic times of one's life can make a larger impact than dropping them off at a
01:39:01 --> 01:39:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for giving me some time.
01:39:03 --> 01:39:06 [SPEAKER_01]: This is one of my favorite podcasts ever in the channel.
01:39:06 --> 01:39:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And so thank you all for so much for your great content, blue hearts, dopamine.
01:39:12 --> 01:39:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you.
01:39:12 --> 01:39:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, dopamine for setting us straight in and giving us so much.
01:39:19 --> 01:39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is medical lore.
01:39:20 --> 01:39:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for being a lorehound with us.
01:39:24 --> 01:39:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I really appreciate it with this feedback.
01:39:26 --> 01:39:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, I want to get things right when we talk about especially things like
01:39:30 --> 01:39:37 [SPEAKER_03]: you know, mental health treatment and, you know, drugs and, uh, the treatment of women in the 60s, right?
01:39:37 --> 01:39:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Like this is, I think I was looking at it more through that lens than I was on the clinical aspect.
01:39:43 --> 01:39:56 [SPEAKER_03]: So I really appreciate all the, not even just corrections, but the elaboration and the education on the broader use of benzos, uh, and another mental health prescriptions.
01:39:56 --> 01:39:57 [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you very much.
01:39:58 --> 01:40:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And also great PSA at the end, definitely donate to your local mental health institution if you can.
01:40:05 --> 01:40:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:40:06 --> 01:40:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:40:06 --> 01:40:07 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
01:40:07 --> 01:40:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Bring all of this to our attention.
01:40:09 --> 01:40:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, dopamine.
01:40:11 --> 01:40:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, if you want to write in feedback like Jim and dopamine and make me read your email multiple times because I didn't realize.
01:40:18 --> 01:40:21 [SPEAKER_03]: You can go to horror at thelorhounds.com.
01:40:21 --> 01:40:24 [SPEAKER_03]: For now, Alicia, you know, I've been doing the outro solo.
01:40:24 --> 01:40:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't we quickly just go through this?
01:40:26 --> 01:40:27 [SPEAKER_03]: We haven't done an outro together in a while.
01:40:27 --> 01:40:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
01:40:29 --> 01:40:31 [SPEAKER_03]: So, do you have anything on your feeds?
01:40:32 --> 01:40:47 [SPEAKER_01]: On Wolfshift Dust, we are, I'm at the same time working on both finishing off Frankenstein and Luke and I have started prepping our series for a Christmas Carol.
01:40:47 --> 01:41:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So, we're actually recording the first public episode for that, and we already recorded we did a subscriber episode on the Wolfshift Dust book club for the Chimes, which is the
01:41:01 --> 01:41:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, very nice.
01:41:03 --> 01:41:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm excited.
01:41:04 --> 01:41:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and on the lower hounds feeds, what else you got cooking?
01:41:09 --> 01:41:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we just a predator.
01:41:10 --> 01:41:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Badlands just came out.
01:41:12 --> 01:41:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Next up is Frankenstein and the new Delta Frankenstein and wicked.
01:41:20 --> 01:41:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wicked is arriving, huh?
01:41:23 --> 01:41:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:41:24 --> 01:41:24 [SPEAKER_01]: For good.
01:41:26 --> 01:41:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be Marilyn Nicole and I reprising.
01:41:31 --> 01:41:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about the first movie and now we're getting the gang back together to talk about this one.
01:41:36 --> 01:41:42 [SPEAKER_03]: So what do you think is the
01:41:44 --> 01:41:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I, so I'm of two minds about this.
01:41:46 --> 01:41:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like with this success of this, they might expand the universe.
01:41:50 --> 01:42:02 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is this is based on the books, but the second movie as the second half of the of the musical goes so far off the books that they can't follow the books to continue.
01:42:02 --> 01:42:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I read the first book, so I know what you'd be.
01:42:04 --> 01:42:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:42:05 --> 01:42:07 [SPEAKER_01]: It is completely different.
01:42:07 --> 01:42:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So it would be just them making stuff up for the most part if they do other things.
01:42:12 --> 01:42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm fine with that.
01:42:14 --> 01:42:25 [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing is I'm hoping that this attention to the musicals will get us finally in a few years, a TV adaptation that's actually faithful to the books.
01:42:27 --> 01:42:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
01:42:28 --> 01:42:29 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
01:42:29 --> 01:42:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I read the book.
01:42:30 --> 01:42:31 [SPEAKER_03]: I think the music was better.
01:42:32 --> 01:42:33 [SPEAKER_01]: disagree.
01:42:33 --> 01:42:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it has its points.
01:42:34 --> 01:42:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It has its points.
01:42:35 --> 01:42:38 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm definitely a fan of the books.
01:42:38 --> 01:42:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I like the second book even better than the first.
01:42:42 --> 01:42:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:42:43 --> 01:42:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd never read the second book.
01:42:44 --> 01:42:45 [SPEAKER_03]: So maybe I need to dive back into that.
01:42:47 --> 01:42:47 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
01:42:47 --> 01:42:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, otherwise on the lower-hand speed, we got pluribus.
01:42:51 --> 01:43:02 [SPEAKER_03]: very exciting stuff that is David and Nicole, the other host of Nevermind the Music, so if you're like in Mark, you'll find his co-host over there covering pluralist the Vince Gilligan show all about if the world became a hive mind.
01:43:04 --> 01:43:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's very exciting.
01:43:05 --> 01:43:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really enjoying the season.
01:43:06 --> 01:43:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm probably half on their part at some point.
01:43:09 --> 01:43:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And what else we got?
01:43:11 --> 01:43:16 [SPEAKER_03]: We got American Revolution with David and Brian David's
01:43:17 --> 01:43:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, and next week, I'm recording some early in story with Marilyn.
01:43:21 --> 01:43:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So we will be having a good time with that.
01:43:24 --> 01:43:25 [SPEAKER_03]: That's all.
01:43:25 --> 01:43:26 [SPEAKER_03]: That's going to be on tour and tour and bar.
01:43:26 --> 01:43:28 [SPEAKER_03]: The long-awaited return of some early in stories.
01:43:29 --> 01:43:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're doing the telemasket episode this week.
01:43:31 --> 01:43:31 [SPEAKER_03]: We are.
01:43:32 --> 01:43:34 [SPEAKER_03]: We are doing the telemasket episode.
01:43:34 --> 01:43:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And that'll be a lot of fun.
01:43:35 --> 01:43:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and we're going to do stranger things too.
01:43:37 --> 01:43:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:43:38 --> 01:43:40 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I can't even remember what we're covering.
01:43:40 --> 01:43:41 [SPEAKER_03]: We do a lot of stuff over here.
01:43:42 --> 01:43:42 [SPEAKER_03]: We're doing stranger things.
01:43:43 --> 01:43:44 [SPEAKER_03]: I think Nicole's going to join us for that.
01:43:44 --> 01:43:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's going to be a good time too.
01:43:49 --> 01:43:57 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, um, other feeds, radioactive ramlings coming back with a, uh, fallout season two coverage.
01:43:58 --> 01:44:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And you're also going to get more and more than everyone in the music every week, as Mark was talking about before.
01:44:03 --> 01:44:04 [SPEAKER_03]: What did he say was covering?
01:44:06 --> 01:44:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, a line over Chisong is the reason.
01:44:08 --> 01:44:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
01:44:08 --> 01:44:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Very cool.
01:44:09 --> 01:44:14 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to get more and more than the music, more radioactive ramlings, more will shift dust.
01:44:14 --> 01:44:17 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of excitement over here on the lower house feeds.
01:44:19 --> 01:44:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's time to say thank you.
01:44:23 --> 01:44:26 [SPEAKER_03]: You want to say the Discord server boosters and other more masters?
01:44:26 --> 01:44:32 [SPEAKER_01]: OK, thank you to our Discord server boosters, Aaron K. Tillow the thriller, doves 71 Athena Agilea.
01:44:32 --> 01:44:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do Nancy M. Ghost of Partition.
01:44:34 --> 01:44:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Radioactive Richard and Audran.
01:44:38 --> 01:44:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And our lore masters, Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, SC, Peter O'H, Nancy Amduv 71, Brian 863, Frederick H. Sarah L. Garriss, C. Ardener B. Kwong Nude, Nathan T.
01:44:51 --> 01:44:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, Sub-Zero, Aaron K. Dally V. Mothership 61-Narls.
01:44:56 --> 01:45:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Kathy W. Listoo, Jeffree B. Elisa U. Ben B. Scott F. Steven N. Julia F. Callie S. Ilmariel.
01:45:05 --> 01:45:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Paul K. Rocky-Zim.
01:45:07 --> 01:45:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Jessica H. Redzipi.
01:45:09 --> 01:45:09 [SPEAKER_03]: The T.C.
01:45:10 --> 01:45:10 [SPEAKER_03]: S. Dopamine.
01:45:11 --> 01:45:11 [SPEAKER_03]: Catch it.
01:45:12 --> 01:45:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Ellen R. Anandrian.
01:45:15 --> 01:45:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks everyone, it is great to have your support.
01:45:18 --> 01:45:22 [SPEAKER_03]: We'll keep adding more stuff to the roster as we go.
01:45:22 --> 01:45:24 [SPEAKER_03]: We've got plenty of coverage coming to get you through the holidays.
01:45:25 --> 01:45:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And we will see you next week.
01:45:27 --> 01:45:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi.