Loki - S02E04 - Heart of the TVA

[00:00:00] Welcome to the MCU Universe, we're the Lorehounds, your guides to the multiverse and beyond. I'm David. I'm Jean. And I'm Alicia. And we're here to guide you through this week's total temporal meltdown. We're going to recap and break down the fourth episode of Loki Season 2, sharing Easter eggs

[00:00:39] and our current theories about what is exactly going on. We'd also love to hear your thoughts about Loki as we discuss the rest of the season. Email your feedback to mcu at the lorehounds.com or head over to our website at the lorehounds.com

[00:00:54] and use the contact form or record us a voicemail for ad free versions of this and all of our podcasts, check us out at patreon.com slash the lorehounds. I'll share more about that as well as notes about our programming schedule at the end of the podcast.

[00:01:07] Also, we'd be forever grateful if you could help us get more ears tuned into the lorehounds MCU universe. All you need to do is drop a five star rating and review wherever you're listening. Apple podcasts is especially helpful, even if it's just a few quick words.

[00:01:22] We read all the reviews and they really mean a lot to us. And before we get started, just a quick spoiler warning. We'll of course be spoiling all Loki episodes up to and including the one we're talking about today.

[00:01:35] But spoilers for the rest of the MCU and the Marvel Comics also on the table. All right. Episode four, we've got two left in the season. It is a heck of a ride. I know we're going to get into our hot takes in just a minute.

[00:01:52] Also, I think just a quick note, we're going to try and get this released first and then we're going to have a special bonus episode coverage of werewolf by night and we're going to drop that on Halloween.

[00:02:08] So if all goes according to plan and schedule, keep your ears out for that bonus episode. That was a lot of fun to watch and to podcast about. Alicia, want to set us up for the episode? Yes.

[00:02:22] Episode four titled Heart of the TVA and it was directed again by Justin Benson and Aaron Moorhead. So this is the directing duo who are the main directors of the season. They're doing the rest of the season.

[00:02:35] It was written by, this time the credit goes to Eric Martin as usual, but also Catherine Blair. She's a novelist who has published two books with brutal female led fantasies and she doesn't

[00:02:50] have so much experience on the TV side, but she's been in the writer's room all season and this is just the episode where she really got to make her stamp so she gets a credit. Interesting. It was a heck of an episode.

[00:03:01] So hot takes, Jean, you're our lead off bat here. What do you got? Well, I said that I can't keep saying that this is my favorite episode. I can't keep opening it up like that, but I might have to say this is my favorite episode. Seriously.

[00:03:24] I love this episode. I think it was, it was everything about this episode was what I love about comics and about stories. I know some folks may not have the same affinity for the ending of the episode that I have, but I really appreciated it.

[00:03:47] The characters that I wanted to see, they all got some play. Things got explained. We got reveals that we wanted, that we talked about earlier. And I just really, really, really thought it was a solid, solid episode. I enjoyed everything about it. I just really did.

[00:04:09] Alicia, how did you, are you in the same boat as Jean? Not my favorite episode of the season. Not that I liked it. I think it was good. It was well-made TV. It was a very important episode for the plot this season. Yeah.

[00:04:23] The self-pruning, the whole bootstrap paradox confirmation, the time loom. Yeah. Time loom destroys the TVA. This is stuff that I've been predicting all season, so it's not a surprise, but I'm glad it's happening now with two episodes left, you know?

[00:04:39] So now they are putting us into surprise territory again. I think the real strength of this episode was all the beautiful, moving, deep conversations. So I understand why people might have mixed opinions, because not everyone derives the same appreciation from that sort of nuanced emotional writing.

[00:04:57] But that's really where this episode shined. I do remember Kate Herron, who was like the de facto showrunner of season one. She kind of didn't like that the episode where Mobius and Loki got pruned, it ended with

[00:05:14] a credit scene that teased that they were going to end up in the void and there would be the Loki variants there. And she didn't like that. So I'm thinking that this was the reason there was no such tease this time.

[00:05:28] They just left us on a full-off cliffhanger, and I have to wonder what would that tease have been? I have thoughts. So I watched this episode the other night when it came out. It was a long week. I had a lot of IRL work.

[00:05:42] I watched Werewolf by night before this, and then while I was waiting for this one to come on air. And I was falling asleep during the episode on my first watch. And I wish I hadn't had that happen because I wanted the episode to have more punch.

[00:06:00] I went and checked this morning, last night and this morning, several other podcasts that are covering this. And there are notable cranks, MCU cranks, who thought this was an amazing episode. People were over the moon or really excited or really enjoyed it.

[00:06:17] The mid boys seemed to, I haven't listened to the whole podcast yet, but they seem to be grooving on it. So I was like, okay, God, what did I miss here in this episode? I was just exhausted the other night when it came on.

[00:06:30] So I rewatched this morning. It is so much of a slower paced episode. Like you said, Alicia, there's so much dialogue and talk, these character moments. There's long leads to where we get into actual action and having things happen.

[00:06:48] And I don't know that we're used to that as audiences. I think we like a little bit more high calorie count or empty food, less nutrition and more zow wow bang. Let's move it. Let's make things pop off the screen.

[00:07:07] But on my rewatch, this was visually an amazing episode. The camera work again is just exceptional. The comedy that was sprinkled through really punctuated the dramatic moments. The music was so informative. And so what's the word I want to say?

[00:07:28] It just sort of enveloped me into the mood of this episode. And I kind of wish I saw this on a big screen. I would have loved to seen this in a theater or some sort of surround sound and the immersive, especially the end with the music.

[00:07:43] It really would have packed a lot of punch. I cranked up my earbuds and turned up the volume on the end scene. And even the end credit music this time, they've been playing with the different sound music that I've been putting on opening and closing credits.

[00:07:57] The end credit music even passed the visual montage that we get when they just go into the regular black and white text credits. That whole thing, that music was still in the vibe, in the mood. It was really a well-crafted episode.

[00:08:19] There's a lot of plot coupon collection going on, a lot of MacGuffin. We got to get this guy with this device into the right place to be able to flip that switch to do that thing.

[00:08:32] And sometimes that can take me out of it or kind of be annoying, but I didn't find it in this case. It just created a simple, it's a very simple narrative structure in that way.

[00:08:41] But then they're hanging all this stuff on top of it, like this conversation that Loki and Sylvie have and the stuff that goes on with Mobius in this, even though it's a short scene. Yeah, I don't know.

[00:08:55] This season is turning out to be something that I was not expecting at all. This whole season is above and beyond my baseline for what we were going into. And I was trying to have a neutral baseline, right?

[00:09:10] Not letting the show that shall not be named to infect my opinions. But damn, this is a different kind of show. It still feels MCU, but damn if they're not doing some different stuff to it. It's really interesting. I don't know.

[00:09:31] Do you guys, is this going to rank in your top 10, John, do you think for the end of year? Yeah. Yeah. You think it's going to break top five? Yeah. Wow. Okay. I think it'll be in my top five too. Yeah. The first season definitely was. Right.

[00:09:49] I've been thinking about our end of year stuff and I've been trying to think about how, starting to reconnect with different shows and see how I feel, how things are connecting. I don't know yet. I mean, they have to land this thing.

[00:10:03] I'm really interested to see how they're going to land it, but it's probably going to be in my top 10 for sure. There's a lot of other great shows and a lot of other things I'm really high on right now.

[00:10:13] So we'll all see how it shakes out for my list. Coming off the summer fiasco, coming off of that, I really had high expectations for this series. Right. I had high expectations.

[00:10:31] Even after what I witnessed in the summer, I was so sure that this is going to be a really good show and it is. You know, up until episode four, right? Yeah. For episodes and I don't know what's going to happen five and six, but right now there

[00:10:50] is no way I can say this is not in my top five shows of the year. I heard from, I think the Ringer folks got screeners, I think Sepp and Wol, a few other people. I don't know who they gave screeners to this year.

[00:11:02] I've heard that screeners were out and they only gave one through four to those people, whoever they gave to. And there was a lot of negative comment about, well, it starts off strong and then sort of, you know, mushes down a little bit.

[00:11:17] And I think this goes back to what we were talking about last week. This show is doing something that I think people are not expecting, that they're not used to. This is pushing in a direction where it's not the usual pablum. It's not the usual comic book fair.

[00:11:32] This is a different thing. And if people don't understand and we don't feel like we talked about this last week, we don't feel like we know where the story is going and the overall structure, it's uncomfortable. And the ending of this episode is so fricking uncomfortable.

[00:11:50] Literally black screen silence. What the hell? What the hell did I just watch? What is the show? Where are we going? How consequential is this going to be for the rest of the MCU?

[00:12:00] If it's not consequential to the other storylines, they can bring it all back and reposition things. But if you have had an effect on other stuff, just like the snap did, if the snap of they're just like, oh, we reversed the snap. It's all cool. Woohoo.

[00:12:16] No, it had consequences. It drove people into deep depression. Yeah, there were five years. Yeah. It sent people off into other parts of the galaxy. Like I can't deal with this. I got to go off and do some other stuff. And it broke people.

[00:12:34] And even post restoration, that still had consequence. And so for me, for a unified storyline, that's important. So I'm really going to be watching how is this event that happened in episode four going to ripple out into the larger storyline? Again, bring everybody back, whatever. I don't care.

[00:12:56] But show me the effect on character. Show me the effect on story. That's what I'm going to be watching for. It'll be really interesting. I have no idea. I am completely stunned. I don't know what to think in some regards. Alicia, how did you?

[00:13:14] I mean, we'll litigate the ending, but what do you think about it for the larger story perspective? Yeah, I mean, I hope that indeed that it really... A lot of people seem to think that they might not have things in the TV shows affect things

[00:13:29] in the movies, but I think they're showing that that absolutely is the case. But yeah, I want them to bring together relatively soon. All the multiverse shenanigans have happened here, happened in the Doctor Strange stuff happened in the Spider-Verse.

[00:13:44] I want to know what the overall cohesive picture is. But I saw another visual reference to the Spider-Verse movies in this episode, when they're scanning the room, it looks just like when they did the same thing. So I feel like they are planning that.

[00:14:03] They have my trust that they know where they're going with it. Okay. Right, right. Can we... I think maybe when we on the final ep or if we end up doing a wrap or another bridge episode

[00:14:15] before like the Marvels or something, I want to do a little bit of a breakdown of the end credits scene, especially with your perspective, Alicia. I haven't watched any new Rockstars videos or anything like that, looking for the Easter eggs.

[00:14:30] But there's two books that they flash in there. Something about black holes and something about the... Oh, what is that? We saw the black hole effect today. Yeah. And then there's something about something paradox or something. There's another spine of a book I saw, but I didn't...

[00:14:46] Was it the bootstrap paradox maybe? I don't know. I actually, I need to pay more attention to the end scene to be able to get that up either. Yeah. I think you said there's a sling ring on the desk at one point as well. Yeah, I saw that.

[00:14:57] Yeah. So I think it- That's at like the very end, they kind of zoom in on it. Yeah. I think it might behoove us to take a closer look at the end credit scene after we get through. Let's enjoy what we're doing now.

[00:15:10] We don't need to go on a shadow hunt, but I think it would be interesting to see once we see what they do with this, how that's all... What they seeded in there and how that might connect. Okay, cool. Well, I think that's it for our hot take.

[00:15:27] Let's get into the episode breakdown, but first let's take a quick break and then when we do, we'll talk about the episode. And we're back. Alicia, thank you again as always for the excellent notes.

[00:15:56] It was fun to see you writing it out this morning in the Google Doc as I was doing my second watch. What do we have? Marker. So why don't you begin to lead us through the episode? Yes.

[00:16:13] So going through mostly seam by seam, but lumping some stuff in the middle together, we begin with, well, protocol 42. So we pick up with a tease that Ms. Minutes, Tara Strong, left us with last episode where

[00:16:27] she shows Ravonna Renslayer, Gugu Mbatha-Raw, a memory from this room at the Citadel at the end of time, showing Ravonna standing at the window with he who remains Jonathan Majors promising her the end of the world, a utopia at the end of time for all time always.

[00:16:47] In other words, the recording Loki overheard in the TVA boardroom in the past in episode one. But then Ravonna walks away and Time Kang tells Mistress Minutes that it's time to execute protocol 42. Wipe everyone's memories, including Ravonna's.

[00:17:04] And then back in the current day at the end of time, whatever that means, Miss Minutes was right. Renslayer is very angry, especially when she finds out that she was the fricking commander of the whole army. Miss Minutes points out, maybe we don't need him.

[00:17:19] Maybe we never did. So this was the answer to the question. It felt inevitable, right? It felt like it was the right piece of information and it felt like the right setup.

[00:17:35] I mean, it can be dangerous to do these kinds of setups, but I thought that it was perfectly smooth and flowed nicely. And it is the right kind of motivation that I think would kick Ravonna off. Right. I think inevitable is a good word for this episode.

[00:17:52] Yeah, this is like a natural culmination for everything that we've been moving towards. It doesn't feel forced or out of joint, out of order. I couldn't help but think we just watched Revenge of the Sith the other day for our Star Wars

[00:18:08] Film Festival and John and I recorded our podcast for it. Protocol 42, Order 66. I don't know. It seems like there's a- Spider 42. Right. Is that what it is? Okay. The spider that bit Miles. Yeah, because the universe 42 is where we ended into the spider, sorry, across the spider verse.

[00:18:30] So 42, the connectivity, they don't do these things by accident, I don't think. And of course it's famous because of Hitchhiker's Time to the Galaxy, where it's the answer to the question, what is life, the universe, the meaning of life, the universe and everything. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:18:49] Which is a great book. And apparently it was slated for a remake. I saw it on some lists and I thought it might be coming out in 2023, but I'm not sure where it is or what's happened to it, but yet another one.

[00:19:02] I still think the original BBC televised adaptation of it was the best one, but maybe that's just nostalgia. So. It's right. I mean, it's one, I think that they haven't nailed it the way that they could yet. So I'd be up for a new one. Yeah.

[00:19:20] I'd like to check it out. So this little mini 3D model that they were in, it was like sort of a little 3D printed thing. I thought that was really interesting to see Ravonna's face behind them in the window sort of mirroring. That was really interesting perspective.

[00:19:37] Again, the camera work and the shot set up on this is really exceptional. That was a really, really interesting point of view. And the look of horror and disgust that she had on her face as she's watching that. Right. Right. It said so much.

[00:19:54] I give credit to the actors because they are knocking it out of the park this season. They really are. I don't have any complaints about any performance that I've seen thus far in the season.

[00:20:11] Everyone who gets a line, everyone who gets a screen time, facial expressions, body language, the delivery of lines. Just excellent. Just really excellent. And anger that she had, I felt. The disappointment that she had, I felt. The disgust. The disgust that I had, that she had, I felt.

[00:20:36] Yeah. It was awesome. Just really awesome. Awesome. And I think that's what it's storytelling to because it puts her at odds with Kang. Right. And like we talked about last week, there is a comic arc that has her at odds with Kang

[00:20:54] and they didn't do it in that way, but they still made it relatable. They still made it something understandable to her. The TV version of Ravonna. And that's what you want to see.

[00:21:08] If you're not going to do a direct comic to screen adaptation, you have to make them, the person that we're watching has to have some sort of reason for being the way that they are. They give her reason. They give her agency.

[00:21:25] They give her all the things that she has in the comic books, but make this her own character. Right. And I love it. I love it. That gave us the core motivation last episode when Sylvie says, oh, it's power that you crave. Yes.

[00:21:43] Right now we have the key to unlock Ravonna's personality and now we can see it start to unfold and we can really see. And then so when she does find out that disgust of the disgust of being used and the disgust

[00:21:56] that you used me, you son of a bitch. Yeah. And also he who remains in that moment is not the he who remains that we met. The what? Just look, look at their, the way he's the way that he is in that scene with Ravonna

[00:22:21] is not the person that we met last season. Okay. The one that we met last season was a little cuckoo. I think a little bit. This guy is this guy that we just saw that, that we just saw is in complete control of

[00:22:39] everything of his senses, of his emotions, of his thoughts, of everything. There's no, there's no stuttering. There's no roundabout, you know, ways of speaking. He is clear. He's direct. He's forceful. He stands upright. Interesting. His shoulders are not slouched. He's not bending over.

[00:23:00] This is somebody who's in command. This is somebody who's been to war and at that moment of time, he is King. He is the last one standing. So he who remains that we met last season looks kind of defeated.

[00:23:25] Like down, down, trotting and, and unsure, almost unsure of himself in the way that he's talking when he's talking to both Loki's to Sylvie and Loki. So I'm not, are you saying that this is a different timeline Kang, or this is a person

[00:23:41] who, cause the way that I was kind of reading it was, this is a, um, like if I, you know, going back 10 years in my own life, I'm a slightly different person than I am today.

[00:23:54] You know, the, the, the effects of time and things that, that has on us. And so I always kind of read him at the end of time in season one as having gone insane a little bit, he's gotten everything he wanted. He's got everything in place.

[00:24:09] He's the King. Okay. Now what do I do? I'm just sitting here and being in this weird place isolated away from everybody. He's kind of gone nuts where here he's just coming off the epic.

[00:24:21] He's just won the war, you know, uh, and he's, you know, creating his, um, uh, utopia is paradise at the end of time kind of thing. And he is at the top. So are you, but are you saying that it's a different timeline or are you just saying

[00:24:34] it's a, uh, can I point something out? Of course. Yeah. It's, um, it's, um, may it's something to think about in regards to this. Um, I don't know if it's overthinking on my part or if it's a genuine clue, but I

[00:24:51] can't help but notice that what, uh, what he, who remains says to Ravonna in that recording, uh, that miss minute shows or Vona it's different. It's not exactly the same as what Loki hears in the past because like the cadence is slightly

[00:25:09] different and that could just be, they took, they use two different takes, but then I ask myself, why would you use two different takes? It'd be so easy to just use the take you like as the recording.

[00:25:21] I don't know if it's overthinking or if that is a clue that we're trained to hunt for, for Mark plays, right. You know, we're trained to hunt the shadows. My thing is, you know, I'm not saying that it's a, it's a different time. Okay. Right.

[00:25:36] It could be, but what I was originally thinking is that what he's done trying to control the timeline has driven him insane. Yes. That was my head cannon. So the entirety of the TVA, that level of focus to try to maintain the sacred timeline

[00:26:00] and destroy every other timeline that exists is what has made him insane. So his creation has driven him out of his mind where we see him before the creation of the TVA. He's in complete control. Yep. Agreed. Agreed.

[00:26:24] And to the point that he, he, um, when he says to her, Oh, I'm proud, I'll be proud to lead with you. And then he's kind of a little bit off and then he says, go ahead. I'll catch up with you. He told us he doesn't like partners.

[00:26:42] Yeah. Yep. So he's manipulating her to, to sort of mollify her, to lead her into that, that trap of, of getting the order 66 or sorry, protocol 42. So I did like the comment that was made. I forget who said it now for all time, always.

[00:27:03] It was on the she says it. Yeah. Well, they say to each other, right? There they are. He says for all time, she says always. Always. Which is kind of like a love language thing that you might say.

[00:27:16] So he does love her, but he's so insecure, whatever his insecurities are about trust and relationships, he can't. But then inside the, um, in the control room at the loom on the door, on the gangway, you

[00:27:30] know, the door on the gangway, if you're outside looking back at the control room above the door, it says for all time, always. So it's like a really nice as like, ah, yeah, there's some connective tissue in the.

[00:27:42] Like when they said that line, I immediately thought of them being together as in the comics, you know? So it was just like, but then it was like, nah, that's not what's going on. This is not what's going on here. I think he loves her.

[00:27:59] I think he does love her. He just can't get over his whatever the cycle, the psychology that he has about relationships. Right. I noticed, um, he calls her, he says to her, you are quite a Marvel. And last episode we had Victor Timely's temporal Marvel Marvels.

[00:28:17] So they seem to be slipping it in there anyway. The Marvel. Yeah, exactly. Yep. So this is again, and I've said this multiple times now on, on these podcasts, it feels like they're doing the Marvel interconnectivity right. They're balancing it. There are seasoning this just right.

[00:28:35] You know, a little too much salt. Doesn't eat it a little too salt, doesn't flavor. Right. So I think they're getting that ratio pretty good here in, in making us feel connected to the wider universe without bludgeoning us with it or going, God, do I have to yet

[00:28:50] again what I get? Let me get out my notepad and start writing down all the characters and threads that, you know, I've got to pay attention to next time. That means I gotta go watch five more movies to get the, you know, the one after that.

[00:29:01] It doesn't feel like that at all in this. It feels really, really well balanced. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel for Ravonna though, definitely in this scene at least, you know, later on

[00:29:12] we'll talk about how much I feel for her then, but you know, she's, she realizes she's like, wait, so he wiped my memory and I've just been doing his secretary work to keep him in power here the whole fricking time. The whole time.

[00:29:25] Isn't that just like a man? Always. The whole time. Well, I'm not, I'm saying it like that, but it's just like a cat. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's a really great plot. Great drama, right? It's a really great dramatic tension between these big characters.

[00:29:44] So good stuff. We get into the episode itself back at the TVA, Victor timely, AKA he who remains of another timeline. It now seems pretty certain steps into the TVA alone for some reason and is startled

[00:29:58] to find himself in front of a massive golden mural of his own face repeated over and over B15 when we Masako, Loki, Tom Hiddleston and Mobius Owen Wilson find him wandering the halls where we can hear those increasingly alarming loudspeaker announcements we heard

[00:30:14] when Loki was time slipping in episode one. They need Victor's help. No time to explain it has to do with the loom and then Sylvie, sorry, and then Sylvie, Sophia DeMartino strolls up making it a party. So yeah.

[00:30:31] Why are they letting Victor walk around the TVA by himself? Didn't they all leave together? He went through the time portal before them. Yeah, he did. So he arrived before them, but still, uh, yeah. Like somebody has to be there watching him always.

[00:30:51] In this episode, he had a lot of free reign. He wandered a lot. He did by himself. Like, no, you can't let this guy out of your eyesight. But that's us. That's me thinking about who he could be. Right.

[00:31:10] And he told us in the last episode, you don't know me. Right. Right. You know, my bias is like, keep your eyes on this guy always. Right. Yeah. But does he deserve that? He says himself, I'm from Chicago, my friend, the shadyocracy capital of the world.

[00:31:28] I love that line. I love that line. But that's not, it's a little incriminating for him as well. It is. I loved his delivery. It's oh, it's a party. Hello. This is where they were sprinkling humor into this, right? And it was a nice touch.

[00:31:45] And he's like, oh, it's a party. That was like, it leavened the scene slightly. So even though we're getting a very, and it prepared us for the next round of serious conversation about, you know, you're trying to reassure me you didn't do what you thought

[00:32:03] it was going to do. And then we need to get into some more serious conversation. It's really good script writing, really good storytelling. Yeah. And you feel for him a bit. He's like, you all want me, I should have some say, which Mobius agrees with.

[00:32:18] But I love that Loki understood appealing to his pride. He's like, oh, yes, that is your loom that we're talking about. You're the only one who can help us. Great stuff. Great stuff. How do you guys feel about Unmi Masako's utilization in this season?

[00:32:37] I feel like they're under utilizing her. I mean, I don't know. I just, she's a great asset and I just don't feel like they're, she's very B-15 in this season is very two dimensional, I guess you could say.

[00:32:53] Yeah, I think they're setting her up for a political position, you know, to sort of be maybe the Ravonna style head of the TVA. But they haven't, she hasn't been able to show her personality yet, which is weird because

[00:33:06] she is one of the few people who does know her life before she has some memories of it because of last season. So I'm hoping, well, I have thoughts about where what they're going to do with the rest of the season.

[00:33:17] I'm hoping we're going to see her on her timeline being a more colorful person, a more, you know, having more personality. That's interesting. Okay. Okay. One little Easter egg, not Easter egg, no, but you know, just one of these little visual

[00:33:34] cues is that we get a clear shot of the coffee chocolates, hot chocolate soup machine that's in the hallway there where they later get it. And we get some scenes of that again in the credit scene and the end credit scene as well.

[00:33:51] So along with the banana in the vac tube, in the pneumatic tube thing. So they're playing, you know, maybe none of this stuff means anything. It's they're just having a little bit of fun, but it is nice connective tissue. So yeah.

[00:34:06] So then B-15 debriefs Judge Gamble, Litz Carr, the judge who had sided with them in episode one, who now knows that General Docs Kate Dickey is alive and in custody with all of her surviving followers.

[00:34:19] Gamble points out that they would have pruned them all in the past and that would have been simpler, but B-15 insisted the TBA needed to change. So that should apply to Docs and company as well. They were only trying to do what they thought was best after all.

[00:34:32] Meanwhile, OB, Kei Hui Kwan and Casey Eugene Cordero are modeling possible fixes for the loom, but nothing is solving the problem. Enter timely Victor Timely with the rest of the posse and some mutual fanboying ensues.

[00:34:46] Then after a gentle prod from Sylvie, OB unveils his practical model of the loom he just casually whipped up on the side. One of them is going to have to take the throughput multiplier fix down the gangway and load it

[00:35:00] into the loom and launch it to where it needs to go so that it can help the loom handle the wildly branching branches. Only one wee giant problem. The temporal radiation has gotten worse than when Mobius did this.

[00:35:13] So whatever, whoever it is, is going to have to walk really fast. Did you see Ouroboros is everywhere Jean? Yes. Yes. Yes. That's why I just said man. Yeah, it's everywhere. It's everywhere. It's everywhere. I looked. Oh my gosh. And you know what? I'm happy for it.

[00:35:37] No, because you know, it confirms what we've, what we've been seeing, right? What we've been saying about this entire season. Right. The snake is a snake eating his tail. Right. This entire season. Like who comes before? Is it Victor Timely or OB? You know what I mean?

[00:35:59] Is it who wrote the book? It's just, there's no, there's no beginning and there's no end. There's constant circular action going on and I appreciate it. I like it, but yeah. And I like that I'm seeing. You should watch Dark on Netflix. Yeah. Have you seen Dark?

[00:36:20] I think I might've watched like an episode. The German one about a, with a kind of a nuclear reactor. In the forest or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't watch the whole thing. About time travel. Okay. Yeah.

[00:36:34] You gotta be into time travel stuff to do it, but man, it is a rewarding show. It gets more and more and more complex as it goes. All right. So I'll put that on my list. It's so good. And then they, then they sank 1898 and 1890.

[00:36:43] What was that one? 1899. Yeah. No, I loved that one. You did? Oh, I'm still hashtag save 1899. Still watching. Oh my gosh. All right. Let's get back. At least we got Tom back for Wheel of Time just saying. Right. Fair enough. So yeah, I really like seeing Ouroboros everywhere.

[00:37:08] Yeah. Down to the signing each other's books. I thought that was even more Ouroboros-y. Yeah. I thought it was really, really great. I love that. I love that not to scale sign underneath the loom when they roll it out. I was like, what the hell?

[00:37:22] I didn't get a second go to think. Humor. Again, the humor is just nicely played out and Kehi Kwan is so disarming and charming in his delivery of his lines and his OB-ness of it. It's a perfect role for him.

[00:37:37] And I have to wonder when he had time to build that model, considering he couldn't help them look at the temp pad last week. But he's just like, I only could do one layer of paint. But yeah, they confirmed one of the bootstrap paradoxes.

[00:37:50] So we have Victor Timely wrote this manual, but OB wrote the manual, but they both based it off each other. So it's just like that again, they called it the Ouroboros, but it's a bootstrap paradox. Right. So yeah, who begot who? Chicken or egg kind of thing.

[00:38:09] Chicken or egg. Yeah, that's perfect. It was the egg. But yeah. Cool. I love when just his casual OB delivery that was created when someone killed He Who Remains and ruined my life. And Sylvie just looks proud even when she ruined his life. It's very cute.

[00:38:32] It's very cute. But yeah, I think like he's a great teacher, but then I do wonder if there's more to the way he presents things. It seems like, and now look, I'm going to very pleasantly talk to you little child brains.

[00:38:44] And like, I feel like at some point we're going to see him break that persona and see a different side. And that's going to be fun. That's possible. When he's doing the whole narration too about enlarging the loom and whatnot, the camera

[00:38:58] work, there was a great scene where the camera's just down onto the gangway and we're, I forget who's back there. Was it Victor Timely? Was looking down it, down the ramp and then the little figurine walking along.

[00:39:14] Again, the exceptional camera work really does a lot to help tell our story and feel make us feel very connected to these characters in this, in what could be a very confusing plot. Timey wimey.

[00:39:28] I never feel lost or disconnected from, from the primary characters and it's all down to that camera work and putting us in positions like that. So yeah. Yeah. And they managed to capture relationships with casual dialogue.

[00:39:41] Like I love when Mobius is like, okay, well, Loki's really going to have to hoof it then. It's got a helmet on it. It could be brilliant, right? It's not my shape. It's your turn. Yeah, exactly. Um, and the, so the little gadget that Victor Timely has, um,

[00:39:57] Oh yeah, the little potato thing. I mean, I've seen it pointed out that it looks similar to the stuff that they were using having to do with Kang's time chair in, in the, in the movie.

[00:40:08] And it's very similar to the, to the, to the, to the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the Kang's time chair in Quanta Mania. Definitely. So yeah, that's interesting. And that's also the last time we saw, well, in addition to what Wanda did to poor Reed Richards,

[00:40:27] the last time we saw a spaghettification was in Quanta Mania when we were getting close to Kang's time tech. Yeah. Interesting. So again, connective tissue, right? Good stuff. Yeah. So we get a, throughout the other scenes of interrogation, we get a nice food interlude

[00:40:46] where while Mobius craves pie, Sylvie is losing her cool, thinking about all the billions dying on branches everywhere. And she calls Mobius out from hiding from the truth of whatever his life was on the timeline. But Sylvie can't escape her destiny, which in this case is Pieland,

[00:41:03] where she has a chat with her other self. Loki defends his bro, Mobius and Sylvie, and he hurl accusations as to who needed or abandoned whom. But when it comes down to, but what it comes down to is that Loki is playing the

[00:41:19] optimist idealist and Sylvie, the cynical realist. Meanwhile, Victor Timely is also having a craving. He must see this wondrous hot cocoa making apparatus for himself, leaving Obi and Casey to handle the problems with the modifications to the Rupert multiplier by themselves. Yeah.

[00:41:38] So this was a nice, it was a nice downtime, a lot of emotional things. And also I wonder if they're planting seeds with what do you guys think of like the whole coffee interlude or sorry, hot cocoa interlude? Do you think did that feel out of place?

[00:41:56] Do you think he was up to something? No, I, I keep going back to. Last week's episode, when he keeps saying when he's his, his theme is I'm not who you think I am. Right. But I'm just predisposed to thinking that he has ulterior motives, right?

[00:42:19] When maybe he doesn't, maybe he's just really fascinated by a machine that just happens to make hot cocoa. You know what I mean? Like he's an inventor. He's a, he's a scientist. But the way he left the other two struggling with the device is what made me suspicious.

[00:42:40] It's go ahead. So, yeah, I mean, it is, it's a device to get him out of the room so that he can be recaptured. I didn't really notice it until now is that we started talking about it.

[00:42:53] And during it, I thought that it went on a little long. I think I kind of forgot about it though later, but it was a little, a little bit much. But now that I think about, you know,

[00:43:08] the way that I had candidate in the moment was he was just fascinated by the fact that you could have a machine make food. So, and that's just his mechanical nature. So. I liked it the way they played it with their mannerisms and the music.

[00:43:22] It was very like reminiscent of silent films. So I appreciated that. Yeah. And the thing too is he's coming from, you know, late 19th century, right? Right. The late 1800s. So all of this is, has to be fascinating beyond comprehension to him, you know,

[00:43:45] all this technology that he can only have dreamt about and seeing these things play out in the way that they're playing out. I think it would be false to think someone who is an inventor is a, is a mind very much in, in, in his own life.

[00:44:04] He's a futurist to experience this future and not be amazed by every little detail of it would have been false to me. Okay. Yeah. Although I noticed at one point he like puts his hand to his chin and you can see how ripped he is. I'm like, well,

[00:44:24] that's quite the physique for a 19th century. It looked like Kang is ready to come out of those clothes. But I love this entire, um, the scenes for this entire period right here. The Mobius needed that dressing down. Oh, right. He needed that dressing down. Right.

[00:44:51] Like to act the way that he's been acting like, Oh, home about it. Very bureaucratic. You know, you, you think of the TVA as a, as a entity that has people who are working and just going about their business. And this is what he's portraying.

[00:45:07] Like this is just another day. Oh, hum. Let me, you know, let's do this. And you know, this is what the job entails. And Sylvie G calls him out. She checks them immediately. She's like, how you talking about pie? You have billions of people actually dying.

[00:45:26] And you over here talking about pie, like what's wrong with you? The clocks don't tick at the TVA do they? Right. Yeah. Timelines are just lines on a monitor. Yeah. Lines on a monitor, just like names on a, on a piece of paper, you know,

[00:45:41] numbers on a chart, you know, but those numbers have real people behind them. When, when you're working with data, right. They have real people behind them. There's real people in those timelines, Mobius. Real lives are being lost. But also by, by him not connecting with his prior life,

[00:46:00] he manages to distance, distance himself from that. You know, that's a good point. It makes it easier not to care. Yeah. I thought it was also interesting that in this scene, Sylvie's face is in darkness and his is in bright light.

[00:46:14] She's not so dark that you can't see her features. And a lot of times television makers, filmmakers, cinematographers or whatever will use that light dark to, you know, give some subtle cues and communication. So I thought that it was interesting that they shot,

[00:46:28] they made a decision to shadow her, but that really put him in a bright spotlight, maybe in the spotlight of, I don't know. I'm kind of working on interrogation. Yeah. That's exactly what I always think. Like she's putting the spotlight on him.

[00:46:42] It's not like they're trying to shadow her so that she's in darkness. Right. And she's the dark agent here, but that he's in the spotlight of her attention and she's giving him, like you said, he's on the what floor. Yeah. What's his motivation here?

[00:46:56] He's just another day in the office, right? Right. Yeah. When the office is melting down, but yeah. Right. Exactly. But does he care about saving people or does he just care about. We don't know. Do we doing his job? Yeah. I mean, I'm still,

[00:47:14] I'm still suspicious of the pie. And this room that people seem to not mean to go to, but somehow end up in when they're upset, you know, and when Mobius gets upset, he's craving the pie. I'm like, there's something. Yeah. Yeah. But I, yeah,

[00:47:29] I love that Sylvie kept it real this whole episode. Because like, yeah, I, you know, while we're sitting here and talking about this, I have horrible images of Sylvie. I have horrible images of Sylvie. I have horrible images from real world things going through my mind. And,

[00:47:46] you know, it's, you balance it with, with your own life that you're living, but it's, you can't forget that that's, this is the world. This is how this is reality. Yeah. Right. Right. It's true. This for me, this conversation was the real heart of the episode,

[00:48:05] the heart of the TVA, this conversation about, you know, tearing it down is easy. Building hope, hope is hard. Well, that's a lot of hope you've got to do. So it was the human heart in conflict with itself here, you know,

[00:48:18] having Loki and Sylvie debate this central issue, but something that really jumped out at me because when they talk about Sylvie not being able to kill Victor timely because she saw fear in his face, she had empathy. Right. And then, so she, she,

[00:48:37] she acted out of mercy to not kill him. And we'll see how this plays out later. But there was another conversation from another storyline that really jumped out at me and I'll read a little, little line here. People should know what this,

[00:48:52] most people who are listening to this podcast will know what this is. I have not much hope that Gollum can be cured before he dies, but there is a chance of it. And he is bound up with the fate of the ring.

[00:49:02] My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet for good or ill before the end. And when that end comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many. Hmm. Ooh, sorry. Yours not least. And this conversation about this debate of, you know,

[00:49:25] do you stay, do you rebuild? But ultimately then it also there's this question of these decisions that we make and the consequences that they have. And when she does show mercy is that she showed mercy to Ravonna and that got some other people killed later on. Right?

[00:49:42] So it's, it's just good. It's, it's, it's, it's this nutrition that we want from the show. This storytelling that is at, it's working this deeper level. Yeah. Yeah. And this, all the conversation, the back and forth about it would be easier to burn this place down and

[00:49:58] start from scratch. Annihilating is easy. Trying to fix what's broken is hard. Hope is hard. And that's a lot of hoping Loki. I see they're both making points. They're both making good points. You know, as we tend to do to us with ourselves, right? Having this,

[00:50:15] this is a, this is a conversation that people have amongst with themselves. Yeah. What should I do? You know, in Judeo Christian, you know, parlance, the devil is a devil. Left shoulder, the angels on my right shoulder, you know, who I listened to.

[00:50:29] So it's playing out with these two characters who are the same person, right? Essentially, but they're not the same person. And how do you, and how do you affect change? Sorry, did I step up? No, no, no, don't go. I was just going to say that.

[00:50:44] And how do you affect change when the change that you are facing is this ginormous machine that is trying to make you feel like you're not the same person and the change that you are facing is this ginormous machine. This, you know, this nation, you're, you know,

[00:51:00] in our modern times, you know, nation States and non-state actors, all of this sort of coming together. How, how do you as one person have hope to make a change to fix things? But then yeah, then there's this whole other question of, of okay, well we set up,

[00:51:15] we, we watch them, we protect them. We give people free will, but not really. What's that about? This conversation was really mind blowing because they debate it. They really, I don't, there's no answers, but they, they don't,

[00:51:30] they don't pull back from asking a whole bunch of really deep questions. And I love that because when she said we're playing God, right? And he said, we are guys. He's like, he's like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. We're God. I've been worshipped.

[00:51:56] I know what that is. I've been worshipped. I've held the fate of others in my hand and depending on my mood, they either stayed or they went like when she said that, I'm just like, who is Sylvie? Because for her to say that, right? Doesn't,

[00:52:22] it doesn't drive for me in the same way because she, if she's a Loki, she's a God. Right. Right. So who's this God that she's referring to? Because they don't refer to entities above them. As God. Right. Interesting.

[00:52:50] That was a very human thing that Sylvie said in that moment. It is true. A very human thing where Loki 2012, it's like, what the hell are you talking about? God, man, we all God's we're God. Like, like what is this concept that you're trying to bring up here?

[00:53:10] What, what's going on here? What, what? He walks out and he walks out after he says that. Yeah. He walks out. He doesn't, he doesn't linger. He walks out. He's like, I'm a God. I gotta, I'm going to go do that. I gotta go.

[00:53:27] I gotta go handle this shit. What are you talking about here? What do we make? Does this, the fact that Sylvie wears the single onk earring, which is a, an Egyptian symbol meaning life. I guess I'm just going to simplify it.

[00:53:39] I'm not going to do the wiki article on it, but then what does that mean? What does that, what is that little piece of jewelry telling us about her relative to these conversations that we're having in the pie shop here? That it does. She,

[00:53:54] she doesn't recognize herself as a God, but yet she's. That's what I'm talking about. Is about life. Yeah. I mean, I think she's, she spent her entire life fighting the powers that be like, she's the original punk princess. Like if it doesn't work out with Loki,

[00:54:10] I hope she and a spider punk get together. So that's my take. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I don't know. And the aunt is very prominently displayed for her, for her character. Yeah. Right. So is it connecting to something that we're just not seeing yet?

[00:54:32] I don't know, but. Would you be fine. I'm happy to be given, you know, don't, don't need to tell us before we're ready. But again, I'm, I, it just left me questioning like, who is she? To have this thought that there is another being a Supreme being out

[00:54:53] there. Who's not Odin right. Or not bore who are not Gaia, but who, who is she? Who is she? Because an as guardian Loki. Would not say that they just wouldn't. So it gives me more questions about Sylvie than I had going into the season.

[00:55:20] I wonder how the onk and the Ouroboros, how they're related to each other or not related to each other, or what might they be saying in, in relationship to each other for research? Another, another question that she brings up is she says you're putting her

[00:55:37] a lot of faith in those three back there. And I guess she's talking about timely or Boris and Casey. But I've been, I've noticed it brought up on these here interwebs that those three back there, three of them. That's interesting that we have a trio,

[00:55:54] maybe there's theories that they could be related to the timekeepers, the statues that we see in the future, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm wondering if we'll see that trio back together in the future post, whatever happened at the end of this episode. Good call. Yep. Threes,

[00:56:14] threes are Ouroboros. Yeah. This minute he who remains OB. Where's the right OB. Yeah. This minute. Who? All right. Yeah. That's, that's a good, that's a good question. Well, to take us out of this scene,

[00:56:33] we see the two hands out of the pie room at a low angle and Loki follows the camera and then passes the camera. And then Sylvie does at the same time while we just sort of, you know, get this, the wall of pie that's there. It's,

[00:56:49] it's really exceptional. And then when we transitioned to the holding cell with the reflections of the prisoners on the ceiling, as we come down with Bradley walking from out from behind the camera into our perspective, incredible, incredible cinematography. I don't know who these people are, but you know,

[00:57:07] all the camera operators and, and the, and the director of photography people, but man, they are killing it. Yeah. So we, then we get, um, I love that the holding cell again had that like Panos Cosmatos, that Dhar director.

[00:57:21] I mentioned that whole vibe with the retro red lighting and the soundtrack. Meanwhile in lockup, Docs and her crew seem to have given up, but Brad slash X five Raphael Casale, a sure hasn't he's got a movie star life. He wants to get back to,

[00:57:34] but his pep talk is falling on deaf, angry at him years enter B 15 and D 90 Neil Elise, who want docs and crew to join them in defending the TVA against Renslayer or whatever other threats are coming, but the trust just isn't there.

[00:57:48] B 15 leaves sending D 90 to go help the guys watch timely. And Brad is arguing against accepting her offer. When Renslayer and Darth minute show up for more time box torture time this time for real. Well,

[00:58:02] first for Vona offers them the chance to be her army against B 15 and the rest in exchange for their life on the timeline back. But most would rather die than fight against the person Docs thinks has more integrity. Most all but one,

[00:58:15] actually sacred timeline movie star Brad Wolf, who definitely wants to get back to that life. Okay. Anakin. This episode is so many call outs to yeah. Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and stuff like that. I love it. I love the stew. So, but completely he,

[00:58:32] he sickened by what happens, but he's okay enough with it too. You know, he, he wants his life back. So he's willing to sacrifice all of those lives for his, that's some pretty, that's some pretty hardcore shit right there.

[00:58:45] None of the other guys are going to be able to do that. So they're again, like Mobius, they're less motivated. Interesting. Right. The onk, right? Life. Yeah, I guess. Right. You know, I want those who are connected with their life have motivation and are, Oh,

[00:59:04] did we just unlock something here? They're, they're motivated in a way and connected in a way where if they don't have it, then they're just sort of going through the motions or, and we see all the prisoners just listless sitting on, passive and inactive. These are soldiers.

[00:59:17] These were minute men who are, you know, used to taking action and being at the tip of the spear. And in here they're just completely passive. So interesting. Hmm. Yeah. And we also get, you know,

[00:59:30] we have the guilt that doc seems to have where Brad says to her, don't you think you've earned your life? And she screams, no, she's like, she really feels she's not worthy for some reason. So, I don't know if we might get,

[00:59:43] maybe we'll see her again and get some more answers about what her past is. What, yeah. What their relationship is and what the whole deal is with. Dickey was amazing in this scene. Yeah. When she delivers that line, uh, the about, um,

[01:00:00] now I'm really seeing the big picture. She was so good on this. I'm really glad they picked her again. The, the, the casting has been exceptional. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's, it's just, it's, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just,

[01:00:21] it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just. Yeah. What was their relationship? What was that deal? I know. I hope we, I hope there's still an answer. He did. You notice he was doing his douchey standing again,

[01:00:35] clipping his hands through the collar so that his arms are up and you can see the scars. Yeah. And they still haven't given us any clues to how he got that scar, which is fine. If we don't, I think it's okay. Right? It's just flavor. It's it's background.

[01:00:47] Sorry, John. No, no. And I was going to say that she doc seems to be coming to terms with what she has done with her life. She knows it as she knows it. Right. Um, she, she, it's, it's that moment where she's listening to B15.

[01:01:09] And listening to her and understanding what she's done and then seeing Ravonna just willing, willing to extinguish any life that's not on her side, which is what she's been doing. Like docs is on the receiving end of what she's been doing. We don't even know how long. Interesting.

[01:01:31] Yeah. We don't even know how long she's been doing it, but she's taken presumably many lives. And we already know in this season, she's taken countless lives. Right? And it's as if that realization is starting to hit and as it started to hit boom,

[01:01:53] you don't get redemption for the shit that you've done. Here's your reward. This, that's it. And I love, I love that. Right. Because not everyone gets redemption for the shit that they did. Right. A lot of people, you know,

[01:02:10] do horrible things and get to live very long lives and we have to watch them. We got to watch them. Some names coming up to mind. I guess. I mean, I wonder because MCU has been doing a lot of stuff with the afterlife and the fact that

[01:02:27] she stands, you know, on her. Yeah. The fact that she stands on death's door and says, no, I want to do the just honorable thing at the cost to myself in storytelling. That's often shortcut to whatever heaven is. Yeah. That's fine. It's also where you lose your head.

[01:02:43] Right. You stand on principle. Yeah. And they can bring her back. They can bring her back with that knowledge. But at this moment, she went through that. She doesn't pay. She pays for what she did. And we often don't get that. We get the redemption. We get the,

[01:02:56] Oh, I've done some really bad things, but now I've changed and I'm a better person for it. Nah, fuck that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[01:03:28] And that's the reason alone. You've pruned billions, trillions of lives. Yeah. Right. There has to be a consequence for that. And you, you countermanded from what the judges said, right? Yeah. You went rogue and yeah, yeah, that's good.

[01:03:41] And that's what I want from shows is not a main character crawling out from the dumpster when you told us that that person was dead. Right. You know, there's consequence. There are downstream impacts. And so, yeah, you did this, you pay, you pay a price and yeah, no,

[01:03:58] I agree with you. It means something. It means there's stakes. It means something. There are stakes and watching this minutes, you know, other than life at their feet as the box is closing and she is having a grand old time. Yeah. The animators, psychopaths. Oh my God.

[01:04:16] She's like a serial killer. Like, oh my gosh. I was like, Oh, this, what is happening here? Look at her face. Oh my Lord. I love how before that, before the docs calls her out and says like, and you, this is really disappointing. Like, and miss minutes,

[01:04:32] like she's going to care. She's like, I know I'm working on myself. Oh my God. She is next time of her life. She's like, I know I'm working on myself. I'm like, oh my God. She is next time of her life. She's like,

[01:04:43] I know I'm working on myself. I'm like, oh my God. She is next time of her life. She's like, I'm like, I'm a serial killer here. Oh my God. She's got no empathy. She doesn't have an ability to wear. Sylvie does and has growth. Yeah. She's.

[01:04:56] And then you have Ravonna who's learned of her role in the war and the Kang wars, knowing that, you know, she's capable of, of, of leading armies to victory. Standing there stoic, like, okay, you're not with me. You're against me. This is what it is. Yep.

[01:05:20] This is what it is. And that's just, yeah, it was great. It was really great scene. I'm glad that they didn't show us anything and it was in the reactions. And we talked about this with, yeah,

[01:05:33] we talked about this with on the werewolf by night pod where it's, and they did it in and or during a torture during one of the scenes, I would say too much if you haven't seen it, go see it. We did it with Bix where we don't,

[01:05:48] we are part of our senses. Well, her in her case, it was, we don't hear what she's hearing, but we're just seeing the reaction on her own face. Right. But this idea of you don't need to show the gratuitous stuff.

[01:06:01] You don't need to splash out on VFX here. We don't need it, but they gave us the sound of it and they gave us the, the Brad's reaction to it. Oh my God. That was heartbreaking. And also, yeah. And also an infuriating, right?

[01:06:18] So we had a complex emotional response because we like Brad, Brad's charismatic. He's when he's not being a complete, I mean, I empathize with Brad's, you know, I would want to, I would rather be the movie star than the time cop too, you know? Sure. There's a,

[01:06:32] there's a plot in there. But yeah. So, so when a show can generate complex emotions where you're having two, three emotional responses in the same moment to the same scene, that's that's good shit. Right? That's right on. Right. Yeah.

[01:06:51] So that leads us into our final act when things fall apart. So B15 returns to the holding cell to find the aftermath of the minutes layer massacre and Dean D 90 is pruned by X five, sorry, Brad from behind while enjoying his cocoa.

[01:07:07] Brad begin brings timely to team minutes layer and Vicky pretends to be happy they're alive, but they are done with his bullshit. They threaten him with time box murder unless he tells them where to find his device. And he promises they'll like his answer.

[01:07:21] The low keys get separated by an elevator door, which Sylvie manages to pry open just in time to see the Loki self pruning from episode one play out. And we find out who was on the other side of that phone call. It was OB.

[01:07:34] OB has figured out that the miss minutes is blocking them from using their temp pads and they need to do a total reboot to stop her. This would also lift the block on using magic at the TDA. So the low keys are very pro this plan.

[01:07:48] Timely stalling for time when Miss minutes breaks down. The last thing she says to timely is you will never be him. An X five goes to investigate the power outage and a fake Loki voice he hears when the enchantress

[01:08:01] swoops out of the shadows to enchant him into pruning Ravonna. The Loki spring Victor leaving Brad there alone with his pruning stick as they book it back to the control room where the time where timely temporal aura successfully unlocks the blast doors.

[01:08:16] Timely insists he should be the one to brave the temporal radiation and mount the throughput multiplier because he's the one who knows how the device works, but carrying that heavy device there's no way he can walk quickly and he's noodle fide, but it's too late anyway.

[01:08:30] The temporal loom has surpassed its overload capacity and it blows enveloping the entire TVA in blinding white light fair. Ooh boy, what an ending. What a way to drop a episode for I think the critics who, you know, various people who

[01:08:49] got screeners must've just been gobsmacked, you know, bruised jaws from them hitting because then you're stuck. You gotta wait. How long ago did they get him? You know, months ago or weeks ago and now you gotta wait for the real time catch up. That would be pretty tough.

[01:09:06] I'm glad we didn't get screeners just for that purpose. Yeah. I loved the, you brought up the music earlier. Again, Natalie Holt is queen, but I love there was like a tinkly poltergeist like music playing in the background as things as attention ramped up.

[01:09:26] There's just so much to think and talk about here. I don't know where we begin. Should we just talk about the spaghettification of it? Is that the big plate of meatballs in the room? That scream. Oh my God. I know. I did not expect that.

[01:09:43] I was completely blown away. I think I screamed too. I was blown away because in that moment, I'm like, he's, when he say he has to be the one, I'm like, okay, he's plotting something. Right. And then I caught myself and I'm like, nah, he's not plotting anything.

[01:10:01] It's not, it's not him. But I'm like, yeah, he's plotting something. He's plotting. He has to be. But it's still a logical choice. I still think he could be. I still think he could be. It made sense. Right. It made sense from his explanation.

[01:10:11] And then he got spaghettified. Yeah. But maybe that was part of the plan. Maybe. Yes. Yes. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, I just, maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I just, maybe.

[01:10:28] I don't know if it, because I still think he was planted, I think, on that timeline as like a baby, maybe for this to be this fail safe. And I think that at least he might not be the, he who remains, but I think the, he who

[01:10:42] remains this as part of his plan. So okay. Yeah. Well, they're doing a good job of hiding the plan because I have no idea where we, where we go and get out from underneath this. I think it's a reboot. Yeah. Well, I wonder. Yeah. So I think, okay.

[01:10:59] So in the trailers we've seen like that there's that shot of a jet ski sales venue and there are, yeah. And there are, there are things that suggest that maybe they are going to, we're going to see them on their own timelines.

[01:11:15] Like, I don't know if these are new variants of them or if somehow like they got sent there when this blow up happens, but I think there's going to be like a putting the team back together thing happening next episode.

[01:11:27] So the, the loom is collecting and feeding timelines, but the loom itself is not time. We, I posited last episode that maybe it's just all BS that, you know, what, what is time without the loom? Well, it's manipulating time. So yeah, time still exists without it. Yeah. Right.

[01:11:50] So, I mean, this did this destroy the TVA and then by implication, the ability to protect from all the Kang's going to Kang war time should just be returned to a natural state now. Right. It's an unknown lawn, right? It's just going to grow.

[01:12:08] It's going to be a field and things are going to grow whatever they're going to grow is how it goes. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I mean, that's a natural state of things in our world. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you know, returning everything to its natural state.

[01:12:21] Like exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I loved just the, again, the miss minutes animation, the whole, I want, I want like a gif clip of that whole, her breaking down sequence. That was so cool to see the animation regressing and yeah. Yeah. It was awesome. And then the transition.

[01:12:41] So as she de-res is then where what's behind her are the, you know, he who remains a triumvirate the three faces of he who remains. It was beautifully set up shot. And then there was a little floppy disc.

[01:12:59] There was the little sort of you know, ASCII art clock face. It was so good. Sorry, John. You were going to know. And that's what he sees as she says, you will never be him. Boom. Right.

[01:13:10] I think we would get to hear what she was going to say. Yeah, me neither. But yeah, that was so good. Yeah. And he's looking at what he will never become. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then he doesn't become that because he's spaghettified. Right.

[01:13:24] So really quick to just on back onto his spaghettification, the way that they set that up when he comes into the control room and they're like, stick your head in this thing. And is it safe? And Loki says, yeah, it's safe. So they set us up.

[01:13:40] They trigger us so that when he does spaghetti, it pops even harder because we were just told that everything was safe. So yeah, again, excellent storytelling. Sorry, I just keep going back to the ending. I got one more point on that.

[01:13:56] Is that when he gets, this is another behind the curtain kind of thing. When he does get spaghettified, there's no way in those people in the control room could see him because the door is down below. It's in defilade. Is that what it is?

[01:14:11] I think where you can't see behind a hill or something like that. Right. So there's no way that they could see him, that happened to him. There's no way that they would, they would have just seen him like a third of the way

[01:14:22] out on the gangplank running for the machine. Right. He didn't make it that far. He didn't even make it out the door. He made it just to the threshold of the door before they popped.

[01:14:33] So it's interesting because we do need their reactions and they hide this fact in plain sight and they go right into the drama of it so that we don't think about the fact that they can't actually see what happened to him.

[01:14:49] There's no way that they can see him being spaghettified, but it kind of doesn't matter because what we need is for them to feel the shock and the horror. Exactly. Yeah.

[01:14:59] And so they do a really good job at going, God, how are we going to solve this problem? Because we've set up this whole two level room. Like, forget about it. Just go straight into the drama and nobody's going to notice that little detail.

[01:15:11] So again, kudos to the production design here, to the shooting of this. All right. So enough nerdy on my part on those things. No, no, that's great stuff, man. That's great stuff. A question for you guys. So do you think we had D90 and Ravonna pruned?

[01:15:30] Once Ravonna was pruned, it was like, okay, they're not like done with her. Okay, sorry, I gotta go back on this. The twinning, the twins D90s, you know, getting pruned with Loki's getting pruned. So when Loki gets pruned, we're set up for the shot.

[01:15:47] We get that closeup of the scream of the face and then the effect. So again, nicely done there to prime us. And then D90 had his moment, right? We were talking about what was going to happen to D90. There it was.

[01:15:59] He gets pruned so that Viktor can be captured. So anyway, all right, now I'll shut up. I won't really, but you know. Yeah, no, just wondering if we're going to be back at the void next episode and maybe

[01:16:16] it's too much to hope that we see some Loki variants there, maybe an alligator. I don't know. I don't think we're going back to the void. I don't think we're going back to the void.

[01:16:25] I mean, because that's where Ravonna was sent when she was pruned and I guess, yeah, D90s with her, whether he'll be friend or foe to her is an interesting question. Yeah, but that was the prunings before everything went to shit.

[01:16:38] Yeah, but the Citadel at the end of time still exists. That wasn't destroyed. Yeah, there was a despair. She was there, wasn't she? Yeah. But the smoke, what did they do? I forgot how they. Yeah, how did they get him? What did they do to him?

[01:16:54] I think they didn't like, they couldn't kill him, right? They just. What I'm saying is that the blast that we saw. Yes. Oh yeah, that's a good point. After the, after. But that wouldn't. Yeah. Why not?

[01:17:09] Because I don't think the Citadel at the end of time, that's not within the TVA. I don't think that's at the end of time. But does it matter? Because. Yeah, well, I don't think it's destroying the entire multiverse, the blast, just the TVA is my interpretation.

[01:17:24] I think it's, I'm thinking that everything is being affected by the blast. Okay. Time is being affected by the blast. I think everything's affected by the blast because the TVA is destroyed, but not because like, so it's fallout effect. Hmm. I have to think about this. Good.

[01:17:42] Because they had already. The show's making us think. It already unleashed the, you know, the, it's time was already branching. So it was already affected by Sylvie killing. I still am not sure how the mechanics of that work, how Sylvie killing he who remains immediately

[01:17:56] made it start branching. But anyway. Yeah, that's a good question too. I loved, by the way, I have to give, what's his name? Raphael, the guy who plays. Brad. X5. He did Brad. Yeah. He did a great Sylvie impression when he was coming back in Enchanted by Her.

[01:18:12] He's like, I didn't think I'd see you again so soon. And even I was like, wait, what? And he's like. That was good. That was lovely. The, and the, the downloading games. Yeah. Cute little line. Mobius is yeah, I can imagine he likes to escape.

[01:18:26] We know Mobius is an escapist. That's a good point. Yeah. The monotony of his job and the fact that he's disconnected from his life. Yeah, right. Sure. So another quick star Wars shout out.

[01:18:39] Did Sylvie's, Sylvie had a kind of mercy for Ravonna by kicking her to the end of time. And we talked about this on Revenge of the Sith is that Obi-Wan not killing Anakin on

[01:18:54] Mustafar at the end, but just letting him suffer there on the edge of the, of the lava field, you know, and then he comes back as Darth Vader, but then we juxtapose it with Gollum like, well, you know, who are you to, to kill Gollum?

[01:19:06] Who are you to pass judgment? So there's some interesting questions there. You know, what did Sylvie's mercy do? You know, it killed Docs and all of those Minutemen. Yeah. It's a trolley problem math. Yeah. Yeah. I don't got a problem with it. No, it's not a problem.

[01:19:24] It's interesting. I think. Yeah. So yeah, she did the right thing and for her, for her character. Right. And ultimately, like I, like I said before, you know, Docs and crew face the music. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I'm okay with it.

[01:19:44] I just love this entire sequence, everything about it, you know, just everything leading up to him going through the door. He's wearing this big ass, you know, funky space suit with, with the, he's all ready to run. Yeah. And then doors open and nope.

[01:20:01] It's not going to happen. I'm like, Oh shit, what, what is happening here? And then we pan back and it's like, boom. And then it's nothing. I just love that. I love that. Um, ending cliffhanger. I really appreciate it.

[01:20:23] I don't know what's going to happen next episode or the episode after that. I have no idea where we end up, which is, you know, why Alicia's question is making me think harder. Is it the multiverse or is it just the TVA?

[01:20:42] And that's a great place to be until the next episode, until I get the answers to that, because now I need to see, right. I need to see where we end up. I need to see where we're at in the story and that cliffhanger delivered must see TV

[01:21:01] for me. Um, and, and it wasn't done cheaply, you know, because some cliffhangers are done cheaply. But this was an earned, they've earned my, my, my viewing for next week. And it was shocking and it left me confused and bewildered.

[01:21:21] And I didn't know what to feel or how to feel about it. It wasn't simple and it wasn't cheap. Yeah. Like you said, it, it, it has meaning behind it. And so it was still trying to process the meaning and that they cut to black and they

[01:21:34] cut the music even. Yeah. Yeah. And they've been talking about this happening the entire season. OB's been saying it the entire season. That's right. Right. We don't fix this. If this doesn't get fixed, it's been a theme throughout the first four episodes.

[01:21:54] And at the end of the fourth episode, it culminated in exactly what OB said was going to happen. Right. It's kind of foreshadowed in a way that in the first episode, you know, OB's like, we have an hour and then something hits the glass. He's like five minutes.

[01:22:10] And it's like every step of the way they're like, Oh, we have more time. We have more time. Oh wait, no, we don't. And then it's like, Oh, you know, and now finally the, as you're talking about consequences, the consequences hit. Yeah.

[01:22:22] They hit the head and where we're left. Um, man, I can't wait to find out. I can't wait to find out. Cool. All right. Uh, do you have any comics corners this week? No. Okay. All right.

[01:22:36] Well, let's take a quick break and then when we come back, we'll get into some feedback. Okay. And we're back. We've got some feedback then if we've got no comics corner again, reminder, you can

[01:23:04] send feedback to MCU at the lorehounds.com or you can head over to our website, the lorehounds.com and go to the contact page. And there there's a form you could fill out that'll send us an email. And there's also a voicemail feature.

[01:23:18] Just click on the button and uh, you know, allow the microphone thing in your computer. If it's got a microphone should, uh, you can just record a video or video, sorry, an audio And that'll come right to us and we can drop it in.

[01:23:29] And we have a discord. Uh, we've got an MCU channel. Uh, I was posting some screenshots today of the pie motif. I love the repeating pattern of the pie. And I saw a cute, uh, one of those posters that they had temperamental temp pad. Don't delay repair today.

[01:23:47] So you know, folks are having a good time in the, in the channel for Loki over on our discord. All of those links are in the show notes below. But we have two feedbacks. I believe we've got Marilyn and Abby are our usual reporters.

[01:24:03] So thanks for both of you for writing in. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love their emails, both of them. All right, well, let's get into it here. We've got Marilyn. Hi, John, Alicia, and David. This one was quirky. Loved it.

[01:24:18] And the Scott Joplin rag. Is this referring to, yeah, this was written after episode three, the Scott Joplin rag version of the MCU opening theme. It definitely set the tone. I also enjoyed the background music for the Victor timely show and the zany Keystone cops

[01:24:30] vibe throughout the chase scenes. Yeah, I think we talked about this last time that they, they got the vibe right. And it was a fun bottle episode in time like that. So yeah, perfect job. So Miss minutes could definitely put a Mrs Davis in her place.

[01:24:49] Oh, oh, throwing down here. I still have not watched Miss Davis. I know I'm very bad. What? Yeah, I know it's one of my big misses. I don't even know if I'm going to get a chance to see it maybe over there.

[01:25:01] It might be in my top 10 for the year. I don't know. At least it gets an honorable mention. Okay, sure. If I got some time when I go on holiday, I'm going to try. Oh, you haven't watched it yet either? No.

[01:25:13] Well, I have a category for my own ranking system and that's sort of big misses. So you know, that's, that's definitely on that list at least. Continuing these tropes of self creative iterative learning AR are really chilling.

[01:25:28] Can't wait for the episode where you smooth out the tangles of this particular web and clarify some of the things I think I heard. Well now I want to know what you think you heard.

[01:25:40] Terrific episode three breakdown pod as always, you touched on some of my questions and raised a few more. I found myself distracted by timely speech pattern, but it didn't throw me out altogether.

[01:25:49] I think the the curve here is that most people had a very similar reaction to this, you know, in the larger majority where people were like, they noticed it, but it didn't throw them out is that I don't know, you're gonna say this, this episode was much better.

[01:26:03] And I think because he was being more himself this episode. Yeah, it definitely did not bother me. And I was used to it, right? It wasn't a sort of shock. You weren't so bothered by well, john, you were making some excellent points about how at all, at all.

[01:26:17] There was a good reason why he would present himself a certain way in public in 1893. Yeah, for sure. I also assumed that it was something the character was putting on probably in order to see less threatening, particularly to the bullies and the robber barons.

[01:26:32] I'll be interested to see if in fact, it's something that the characters putting on now I think we see it, it's consistent in his character. That's threatening to white people, particularly to the bullies and robber barons, which is the point that I, that I, right. Right. Right.

[01:26:52] Because he's trying to be non-threatening in the scene. Right. So he's up there giving a show and he's trying to, if he's, if he's displaying some sort of flaw, right, then he's less authoritative and out of place. Is that what good way to explain his?

[01:27:09] Well, yeah, because we're 1893 America. A black man getting up there with what they would say airs was, you know, a candidate to be lynched. So definitely. After all, people do have different speech, do have a speech differences, don't they?

[01:27:30] I also had the impression that young timely was on his own when they first tossed the TVA handbook through the window. So we didn't see any evidence of his parents at all, which gives credence to what Alicia

[01:27:43] said about this episode that he was placed there as some sort of grand plan. Right. Yeah. He's on the chessboard. Right. Interesting. It seems to me that in our real world, there is no sacred timeline.

[01:27:59] Am I correct that it was the final he who remains who decided on what the sacred timeline should be and did everything in his power to ensure that it remains so by creating the TVA? So yes, she's correct in that.

[01:28:12] But also I want to say about in our real world, there is a there's a behavioral scientist who's making the rounds for a book tour right now talking about his book. His name's Robert Sapolsky, and he's talking about his book where he he argues that if you

[01:28:29] look at the evidence, it's irrefutable that we do not have free will. Free will does not exist and that we should see that as a good thing, for instance, as a way to excuse some people. Yeah. He makes good points.

[01:28:43] I don't agree with him, but I just wanted to say in the real world, according to this guy, maybe there is something like a sacred timeline. Right. Yeah. And this is the determinism versus free will philosophical debate.

[01:28:56] And I think season one of Foundation engendered a bunch of this conversation too. Do we, you know, you know, in terms of mathematics and what's the math that is in Foundation? The now I'm forgetting. No history. Yeah. Trying to call up all the memory banks here.

[01:29:15] And a thought just occurred. Do you think that they have an in plot reason for naming it after the Tennessee Valley Authority? Or is it just a pun? It is rather attempting to go all Markley on this stuff, but then you have the theory of Val, right? Yeah.

[01:29:30] I mean, so I looked it up and there are people online who note that there's a similarity in just in like the bureaucracy, the Tennessee Valley Authority being a, you know, a big deal era program from like the thirties, forties new deal. New deal. Sorry. Yeah.

[01:29:47] It still exists. It's it could be some inspiration, but obviously, you know, that would have been something that Marvel whoever first invented the TVA way back decades ago when they could have very well been taking. Yeah. That's a good point.

[01:30:02] The TVA, the current TVA logo looks very much like it's not dissimilar to the TVA logo in our show. So that's funny, but yeah, it still exists. Federally owned electric utility corporation. So yes, John, this is not a familiar plot line and that requires some trust from us.

[01:30:24] This is one reason why I've never watched or been into the multiverse stuff. I am not comfortable when they toss all the rules into a cocked hat. I trust Loki though, because I'm familiar with the character from the previous films

[01:30:36] and they seem to be doing something of a through line with him, even though he did very wildly from film to film, depending on who was directing each particular story. Of course you could also argue that that's the basic nature of Loki to be a trickster

[01:30:51] changing in multiple senses and to fool you. Exactly. They did a little, even in the pie shop, uh, they talked about Loki's past again a little bit, didn't they? When he talks about his brother and stuff.

[01:31:02] So they're giving us a lot of, they're really rounding out his, his character and giving him a lot of self reflection to think about himself and his past. It's, it's unique for a show, right? It is. Especially with comic book characters. All right, finishing up.

[01:31:22] And once again, Alicia, I thought that your flerken was mine, which really spooked me for a minute. And I was in a completely different house, a 25 minute drive away from where my flerken was at the time I heard it. Talk about timey wimey. All the best, Maryland.

[01:31:35] P.S. As it happens, both Sir Isaac Newton and Harley Earl, a designer at GM in the early days had alternate speech patterns. Interesting food for thought perhaps? Or am I once again going to go all Markley here?

[01:31:50] I don't think they're saying timely is Sir Isaac Newton, mind you, just that they might be doing homage of sorts. Interesting. Thoughts? I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah, I could definitely see that being the case. Cool. All right. Next up is Abby, who is jumping back into episode.

[01:32:09] We're going to jump back into episode four with her feedback. I absolutely love this episode back on the hype train and the gushing. You go, Abby, go. What great visuals, such fitting, amazing music and the story that constantly surprises.

[01:32:25] I love that it started with an answer to what the recording Loki heard in the past was about. Order 42, is this the Clone Wars of the multiverse? Yes, it was not lost on me either. Execute protocol 42.

[01:32:41] I was silently cheering for Ravonna and the clock turning into real antagonists. I might not be a real Marvel fan as I'm not horny for Kang. Just don't find him a compelling villain. What even is his deal?

[01:32:59] Even the Mad Titan, my keyboard refuses to type the name, was a better villain in terms of motivation. Sorry, had to get that off my chest. So yes, to the purple grimace as our big bad. So who is Obi really and what is his real name?

[01:33:19] As clearly Ouroboros is just a nickname to describe the chicken or egg situation crazy circle. Any thoughts or theories to pick up here from Abby's question? I mean, I think they like Mobius is not Mobius' real name, so it could be. He has... Mobius M, Mobius MMM.

[01:33:37] Yeah, he's, it's got to be, I don't know. What do you think, Sean? I think, who do you think Obi is now at this point? I genuinely don't know. Okay. Do you still hope he's a villain? Yes. I mean, yeah, that's where they could go, right?

[01:33:55] Is yeah, I think you, one of you said it earlier that we could end up looking point of views with all of these different characters and their natural timelines. Just like they show Ravonna having a different role in the Kang Wars.

[01:34:09] I have a feeling that so did Obi. Was he the equipment mastermind or what have you, the guy who was supplying the army with a bag of tricks that they need? Right. And Kang did something to his memory to keep him from ever being able to challenge him.

[01:34:28] Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That would be interesting. That would be interesting that if, and he, the he who remains found Obi and then that Obi was able to devise whatever weaponry and equipment that allowed that Kang to beat all the other armies. Right.

[01:34:48] And he, but he did something to him. Yeah, for sure. For that he couldn't replicate it, which is why we have the Obi that seems to be perpetually confused but not confused. Interesting. Interesting. All right, continuing.

[01:34:59] Sylvie decided to join them and oh my gosh, Mobius really needed to hear that dressing down. Indeed. I'm not sure what I'm doing. I'm eating to avoid the glaring problems. Every character in the show has to face the music at one point or another, but I'm allowing

[01:35:13] myself a swoon moment about the pie land conversation. Great Loki line. And he sure has grown so much. Quote unquote, trying to fix what's broken is hard. Hope is hard in that voice.

[01:35:26] Tom Hiddleston could read the phone book or a grocery list and it would just sound hot. Fangirl moment. You're not wrong. I noticed a number of times too in watching Hiddleston's physical performance in this

[01:35:38] when he's running around and the whole self pruning thing, the way he runs into a hall and stops, he does this sort of slide and then comes upright or he squares his shoulders up when he's about to face something.

[01:35:50] He is a really physical actor with this Loki character and he really has it. It pays off. Yeah. Yeah. Miss Minutes is a sadistic little creep. True. I don't think we disagree. The system reboot and consequent erasure was satisfying.

[01:36:08] Loki and Sylvie got to collaborate as I was hoping for. So it turns out I was right. Loki was the one who pruned himself. Here's your box of cereal and your internet points. And Sylvie's reaction was funny. In the end, Vicky did a good job.

[01:36:26] And Vicky is the actress? Victor. Oh, Vicky. I was like, what? Vicky did a good job and I'm gladly saying goodbye to that character. Was the whole TVA and everyone in it just swallowed by a black hole? What an ending.

[01:36:42] Well, quickly on the black hole thing, in the end credit sequence, there is a book that is prominently displayed. It says black hole on it. It's like a popular science fiction book about black holes. So interesting. Well, yeah.

[01:36:54] And OB said in episode one that spaghettification happens when you get past the event horizon of a black hole. So to be clear, when Hawking said this, what he meant was not like what we saw on camera,

[01:37:06] but what he meant is you get squeezed down to like this thin one thin long spaghetti. But anyway, this looks much cooler. Okay. Not exploded into a booze. This is cool here, right? Yeah. Abby continues. I'm not a fan of cliffhangers, but this worked.

[01:37:20] It's an amazingly good to not know where the story goes from here. Do the lore hounds have any theories? Question mark. Well, I think we kind of talked a little bit right where we could just end up with everybody in their own timelines.

[01:37:34] And then there's gotta be some additional causal element that brings everybody back together or wakes them up. I mean, that's one possibility. I don't know. I'm reluctant to theorize almost. What about you guys? Yeah. I'm not sure where we end up.

[01:37:51] I just know that everything's been, everything is gone. Is it one timeline that we return to? Do we all go to the end of time? You know where Alios was last year, last season. Do we all go to Clonopolis? Where do we end up?

[01:38:12] Do we all go to each person's individual timeline? Is that the reboot that we're doing that people get their lives back? I don't know. Yeah. Any theories, Alicia? I mean, so I think we're going to be seeing people on their own timelines in addition.

[01:38:30] And I think we will see the void with the people who were pruned. Victor Timely, I don't know. He looked super dead, but we'll see. But the question is if the people are on their timelines, are these other variants or are they like these people somehow sent there?

[01:38:47] And regardless, either way, who remembers enough to go and start collecting them back for a team up? Yeah, exactly. So this other book that gets referenced in the end credit is called The Zartan Contingent and it's written by A.D. Doug, PhD.

[01:39:06] I don't know if that any bells ringing from that? No. Okay. It's very clearly there. So, you know, again, hunting for shadows here. All right. So I just looked it up really quick and it says that it might be one of the earliest Thor comics. The Zartan Contingent?

[01:39:23] In fact, okay. So I'm quoting this from an article from Games Radar and it says, in fact, nobody apart from the folks at Marvel Studios, of course, is quite sure what it means, but it's prompted some speculation.

[01:39:34] Travel back deep enough into comics history and you will meet a mercenary called Zartan who first appeared in July 1984 as G.I. Joe, a real American hero number 25 published by Marvel. Yeah. So Zartan was a master of disguise and often worked for the villainous Cobra Commander.

[01:39:52] Ah, all right. All right. So it could be something, could be nothing. We don't know yet. Yeah. It could just be an Easter egg, but yeah. But the fact that they show, because it seems like the stuff they show in the closing credits

[01:40:05] so far, a lot of it's been significant. So I don't know. Yeah. And it seems to, the ending credit seems to be very linear too, in terms of following the sequence of the show so far.

[01:40:15] So like the things that are at the end of the credits, there are certain things that we haven't seen yet. Whereas stuff at the beginning is stuff that where each episode we're seeing little bits, if that sort of makes sense.

[01:40:26] And there's also from the Thor comics way back in 1963, there's the Zartans with an X. Yeah. They were the enemy. They look like alien race or something like that, right? Yeah. I think they were also created by the space gods, the Celestials. Okay. Okay. Ooh. Yeah.

[01:40:49] Bring the eternals back in. Right. That's what I was just thinking. And I was like, wait a minute. Yeah. So I don't know. That's a good guess. That's a good guess. Yeah. Because I didn't see it. I didn't notice it in the end credits. Let's see.

[01:41:02] Because I was just awash in other things. So now I'm going to do a little digging into seeing. It's very short. It's near the end. It's around 45, in this episode about 45 minutes, 10 seconds in or so, somewhere right around there.

[01:41:20] And it's when K. He Quan's name comes up on the list of actors. Okay. All right. Abby finishes off on Loki being killed again. Well, nothing new. We got used to it and not even worried that they'll be back in some form or another.

[01:41:32] Can't wait for the next episode. Thanks for reading my lengthy tomes as ever, your faithful listener, Abby. Thank you, Abby, for always writing in. This one popped into my inbox at the moment the episode was over practically. Maybe it was the next morning.

[01:41:47] She said she was writing it on the train ride back from work. Wow. That's awesome. Well, thank you, Abby. Thank you, Marilyn for... It does. It's a lot more fun when we get some feedback. So I think people are watching this.

[01:42:02] We're getting good downloads, but it doesn't feel like it's a feedback generating show. I think people are just going for the ride. I think people's heads are spinning. Yeah. I think people are waiting for it to end to be able to really talk about it.

[01:42:17] And I do think that I know some people are waiting for it to all come out and to binge it, which is, I guess, the usual thing. And it makes maybe more sense with this show than with others.

[01:42:28] But you're missing out on the fun week to week speculation. Well, you get all these pods here waiting for you when you're ready. I respect the binge though. I respect the binge. Yeah.

[01:42:37] Yeah, for a show like this, especially with a timey-wimey thing, it can be kind of fun to... And there's only six episodes. Right. Right. Okay. Well, that wraps it up for this episode. Let's quickly talk about some of what we've got coming up.

[01:42:51] For the lore hounds really quickly, we've got a bunch of stuff. We got a little backlog in our editing, but we've got a lot in the can. We still have the creator one-shot is coming out. We recorded Revenge of the Sith for Star Wars Film Festival.

[01:43:08] We've got a Silmarillion stories in the can. So all of those plus a second breakfast. All of those should be, I don't know when they're going to be coming out, but they're going to be coming out. So stand by.

[01:43:18] Another thing is that Properly Howard movie reviews, they finished up their season of what was about a dozen films all covering remakes. So they're on a little hiatus. However, we've got a crossover pod covering Severance. So Anthony and Steve are covering Severance season one episode.

[01:43:42] So the first two episodes for that podcast are out and then they're going to cover all of season one. And then the moment season two starts, we're fingers crossed it's going to be early in 2024. That's the word that we have. We don't have a specific date yet.

[01:43:57] All four of us, John, myself, Anthony, and Steve, we're going to be covering week to week episodes of Severance. That's going to be on its own dedicated feed, makes things easier for production and all other kinds of reasons.

[01:44:10] So go seek out Severance and Severance lore hounds should be able to pull that up. If you search for those, you can always find the episodes too on our website. Alicia, you have been up to some podcasting magic.

[01:44:25] You want to fill us all in on the wide coverage of Fall of House of Usher. It's been an amazing ride so far. So in addition to, you already mentioned that there's going to be the werewolf by night coming out on this feed soon.

[01:44:39] Yeah, we've been doing some cross pod Fall of the House of Usher PO coverage. So there's the crossover episode that I did with Maester Anthony on the electric book glue. And you can find the condensed version of that in the Wolshift dust feed.

[01:44:54] We also did follow the House of Usher episode with John and I here in this feed. My favorite, the one that I, my little baby I put work into is in the book club, a full

[01:45:05] audio drama version of the Fall of the House of Usher and the Raven with the help from Dead Eye Jedi Bob. And yeah, in addition to that, there should be probably by the time this comes out in

[01:45:15] the Wolshift dust feed, my sister and I did the full breakdown where we talk about all the while we talk about our childhood watching horror movies, but we also talk about all the different post stories and how they were woven together for that.

[01:45:27] And then in that feed coming soon, there's going to be resuming the Dune coverage next with the Dune novel. Cool. And also some coverage of Beacon 23, the new Hugh Howey adaptation on MGM plus. Exciting.

[01:45:41] And, and Abby and I have our first episode in the can together for the book club where we break down the book, Beacon 23. Yeah, I'm excited for that. So that's coming out beginning of November. You've been busy and will be continue to be busy.

[01:45:56] I'm excited for that Beacon 23. Yeah, good. Jean, you teased on werewolf by night, some DC. We're going to get into some DC partying in 24. So be on the lookout for those announcements. Sounds good. Excellent. All right.

[01:46:14] Last thing that we want to do is just shout out to our Patreon lore masters. Some Martian Cyrus, Mark H, Michael G, Michelle E, David W, Brian P, Nick W, S C, Peter O H, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Lavinia T, Dove 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L,

[01:46:33] Gareth C, Eric F, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa, Andra B, Kuang Yu, Laura G, Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Aaron T, Sub Zero and Adrian. Thank you all so very much for your subscriptions.

[01:46:48] Keeps the lights on here and helps us out with a lot of different things. If you're interested in becoming a patron, as little as $3 a month, you can subscribe. We have annual memberships. You get a 10% discount and you could get the whole year for just around 33 US dollars.

[01:47:05] So that would go to support all of us and all the work that we do. So consider it. And if that works for you, great. If not, no worries at all. You know, we've got the public feed for you. We've got you here.

[01:47:15] All right, guys, two more episodes to go. Excited. I can't wait. Kind of. I'm pretty. I've got a lot of anticipation. So thanks again for covering the show and both of all of yours hard work. We'll see you next week. Take care. See you soon.

[01:47:31] The Lore Hounds podcast is produced and published by the Lore Hounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad free access to all Lore Hounds podcasts at patreon.com slash thelorehounds.

[01:47:47] Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.