MCUniverse: The Marvels - Review - Special Guest Marilyn R. Pukkila

[00:00:00] Welcome to the MCUniverse, where the Lorehounds are your guides to the multiverse and beyond. I'm David. I'm Sean. And I'm Alicia. And we'll be introducing you to the MCU's first trio of super space señoritas.

[00:00:36] In this podcast, we're going to start off with our spoiler-free hot takes, and then we're going to do a roundup of MCU-related news, including setting the record straight on some box office issues and some updates on upcoming shows and movies.

[00:00:51] After that, we'll take a break, and then we'll get into our full spoiler breakdown of the movie and answer some listener feedback. We'd also love to hear your thoughts about all things MCU. Email feedback to mcu at thelorehounds.com or head over to thelorehounds.com and use

[00:01:07] the contact form or record us a voicemail. For ad-free versions of this and all of our podcasts, check us out at patreon.com slash the lorehounds. I'll share more about our Patreon as well as our upcoming programming schedule at the end of the podcast.

[00:01:22] Also, we'd be forever grateful if you could help us get more ears tuned into the Lorehounds MCUniverse. All you need to do is drop us a five-star rating and review wherever you're listening. Apple Podcasts is especially helpful.

[00:01:34] Even if it's just a few quick words, we read all the reviews and they mean a lot to us. And before we get started, just a quick spoiler warning. We'll of course be spoiling the Marvels, but spoilers for the rest of the MCU and Marvel

[00:01:46] Comics are also on the table. All right everybody, here we are. We've all seen the movie and we've got a special guest. Marilyn R. Paquila is jumping into the podcast. She had some things she wanted to share and say about the movie. She had a good time.

[00:02:07] And I think, Marilyn, I think this is the first time. You've podcasted with Alicia before? No, this is my first time with both Alicia and Joel. What? Oh my, this is awesome. I couldn't be more thrilled. What? This is great. That's shocking. We're making history now.

[00:02:22] I'm joining Big Kids Table. This is fantastic. I said classing up the joint. Classing up the joint. Yeah, definitely. There you go. Awesome. Well, Marilyn, thank you so much for joining with us. I hope... Yeah, it's great to have you on board.

[00:02:35] I know we were constantly thinking about you and referencing you during the Loki stuff because there was so much Norse mythology. It was fun. Just a lot of really great stuff. So thanks for writing in all the emails that you sent us.

[00:02:50] You and Abby and Dork of the Ninjas were great with your feedback. So we really appreciate everyone who was offering their takes on a really extraordinary season of television. It was really good. Absolutely. Yeah, they landed the plane as we like to say. Yes, they landed the plane.

[00:03:09] Good stuff. Well, we're here to talk about the Marvels today and we're going to start off with our hot takes, spoiler free of course. So Marilyn, as our guest, would you like to lead us off? What did you think of the movie? I'd be delighted. Thank you.

[00:03:27] I thought it was fantastic. I haven't laughed so long or so hard at a Marvel movie or TV series in a very long time and it felt good. Yay. Yeah, it was good to have information on sort of the follow up to Captain Marvel about

[00:03:42] what happened regarding Hala. Okay, so one of the weird bits was, well, a bit weird, but it was amusing and fun. But another scene absolutely had me gasping for breath. I was laughing so hard. And again, frequently throughout the course of a whole chunk of time.

[00:04:02] So that was a lot of fun. I thought that it was a superb use of three very different characters to uncover the emotions underneath the superpowers. It's just a really great way to see them bouncing off each other, but then they start revealing

[00:04:19] things that otherwise they might not have revealed. So I thought they did that very well. The visuals were stunning, both the long sweeps and new planet scapes. And I liked also the conception of the different technical spaces like Carol's ship and Fury's

[00:04:34] SWRD module with a convenient donut design, which was really great when they were team tagging to fight the baddies. I thought that was particularly excellent choice of design. And like Sha, I was wondering where Taisha was, but I was going to be famous.

[00:04:50] I'm glad you brought it up. I said it. Okay. Yeah. I'm happy you brought it up. I was really puzzled. Where was Taisha? I mean, come on. Yeah. No explanation. Just, yeah, that was weird. Just on the phone? Like, come on.

[00:05:05] She was a big part of Ms. Marvel, right? Yeah. Absolutely. I did wonder about that. Yeah. Maybe she's in the film. Maybe, but give me something about why. I know. Yeah. I mean, maybe they're about to have their first baby or something. Yeah. Tell me something.

[00:05:17] Did they even say like, is she very young? Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Did they even say like, is she visiting family or something? No. No. No.

[00:05:32] Nothing. She was on the phone and like maybe two scenes. Yeah. Yeah. Like he spoke to her on the phone. He's like, I'm going into space. Yeah. Like. Completely missed that. Sorry. That was certainly the low point for me.

[00:05:47] Real quick reminder on Taisha who is just in case. Just for anybody who's not familiar with the picture. The wife of the brother. Kamala's sister-in-law. So Amir married Taisha in Ms. Marvel and we didn't get to see Taisha at all in the movie. Okay, so her brother's wife.

[00:06:07] Yeah. Got it. So she, for such a welcoming family, a loving family, a close knit family, for her not to be seen or even really spoken of, that threw me off a bit. It was just weird. It was. It was. Okay.

[00:06:30] And that's really the only complaint I had about the movie. Oh really? So what's your overall take? It was such a cool time. It was a really cool, fun, breezy movie. Something that I really enjoyed. I loved watching the characters interact on screen.

[00:06:53] I thought there was several standout moments, several standout set pieces that they pulled together well that maybe upon hearing and thinking before seeing the movie that I thought, ah, this could go in the wrong direction, but it really didn't go in the wrong direction.

[00:07:15] We'll get into those things as we talk a bit more. But I really enjoyed watching this movie. I thought it was fun. I think it was, Alicia, you said everything doesn't have to be Citizen Kane. Right. Right. Goodness. Yeah. Right.

[00:07:32] And I really thought about that as I was watching this film and thought about it when I left and said to myself, you know what? This was really enjoyable. This was a really nice time to watch a movie and just escape.

[00:07:51] And I think at its core, that's what I want from a lot of the films that I watch. So this was really cool. Right. I literally laughed and I literally cried. Oh my gosh.

[00:08:04] There were times, there were a couple of times where the feels hit me really hard. There were times where I was just cracking up and I was having a great time.

[00:08:14] There were a couple of WTF moments for me where I was like, but is that, that's a little ex machina. There were some rough edges around the plot, some not great acting here and there, but none of it ever took me out.

[00:08:33] None of it ever eroded the foundations of the movie for me such that, and I went with my spouse, we got a date night. We're out. I'm podcasting from my in-laws basement today. We got the whole week off for the American Thanksgiving holiday and my in-laws were like,

[00:08:52] yeah, go see the movie, go have a date night. So great. So my spouse who is not an MCU person at all, not opposed to the MCU, just not into it, just not her thing. She was like, that was a lot of fun. I had a good time.

[00:09:08] So I asked her, I said, well, what about this or what about that? She was like, I don't know. I don't know who those characters are. I don't know what that means. I don't care.

[00:09:15] None of that red yarn connectivity to all the other MCU stuff made a material impact. I think there's only one thing where it made a material impact and that was on the ship. We don't want to go into spoilers.

[00:09:35] There was just one and it was the same one that I had, but otherwise we had a really fun time out at the movies, sitting in front of a movie theater screen, having a good time. The theater had about a dozen people in it.

[00:09:49] It's a small theater in this town where we're at. I was surprised to see how many people were there. There were a lot more people there to see Trolls and the new Mockingjay, whatever the new- Oh, Hunger Games. Yeah.

[00:10:06] So, but it felt like a festive little outing and everybody in the theater, when I walked out of the theater, some other people who had been chuckling and laughing, we kind of nodded each other. We're like, Hey, cool. You enjoyed the movie? I enjoyed the movie too.

[00:10:22] It was that really great movie going experience. And so I think the movie on that level delivered and it felt great and it felt great to have a win for the MCU, for these characters.

[00:10:32] And like Marilyn, you were saying that the way that they worked together, the three heroines, it helped to illuminate internal motivations and emotions and that kind of stuff was great. And then something that I noticed at the end in the grand finale of it all was rather than

[00:10:55] a smash, destroy, kill the evil bad guy, it was a healing. Yes. It was a healing of a breach. It was closure, literally closure without being spoiler. And I was like, Oh, this is a different movie told from a different perspective, but yet

[00:11:16] it still felt as epic and marvel-y and big superhero, biff boom bang kind of stuff, but it didn't have to be ending somebody. It was a resolution of things and it was a coming together of things. So I think I really appreciated it on that level too.

[00:11:36] And I love the big bad, I forget her name, the actor- Darbin. Darbin, the actor. Zhaowei Ashton. She's great. I love her. I want more of her. Phenomenal. Phenomenal. I didn't realize that she's Tom Hiddleston's fiance until- No way. Yeah. Yeah. He referred to her as his partner.

[00:11:54] Right. In one of the interviews. In one of the post-Movie interviews, yeah. Yes. Yes. I saw that as well. That's amazing. I saw a picture of them on a red carpet somewhere together. I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah. That's very cool.

[00:12:05] Anyway, so yeah, I had a great time and I'm really glad that this got made and finally got moved. Yeah. And you could see where they probably did some back of the room edits to put things

[00:12:09] together and kind of stitch a couple blocks, but it never had a tone of being Citizen Kane. So it was a little bit more of a, you know, it was a little bit more of a, you know, it

[00:12:11] was a little bit more of a, you know, it was a little bit more of a, you know, it was a I had a great time and I'm definitely, this is one that I'm going to watch at home.

[00:12:40] It's going to, it's a nice short, quick, funny pick me out. up. There's a couple scenes in particular that I would watch on repeats one, I really need an extended edition of and but I also feel like having seen it my first time in a theater on

[00:12:55] opening night enhanced that experience as well. Because like you said, David, it was just a really lovely communal theater experience. monocultural experience. Yeah, yeah, we're laughing at things together. And we're responding to other things together. And just having a good time. And it

[00:13:12] feels like you're bonding with the strangers you're sharing this space with. Trans. Yeah, yeah. It feels this the movie overall, it feels connected to the overall MCU plot, which I think I've been missing a bit in recent movies more. And it feels

[00:13:27] like we're finally starting to move the overall plot forward for this phase. It also pulls together a bunch of comics. I think, for me, there are certain things like what happens on that one planet that they go to. It just felt like it was directly a

[00:13:44] sequel to that comic to that Captain Marvel comic. So yeah, it just felt more tied to the comics than a lot of other ones to me. And I was so glad that Kamala's family was just as

[00:13:56] enjoyable as in the show. I just want more of everything. I did notice the editing issues people mentioned. This is one of the only times I want to call for a director's cut because I think they cut some of the weird stuff and I love the weird stuff.

[00:14:13] And I think yeah, there was also was an issue with the trailers because the trailers they started fun and on brand but they got too serious. And I know I talked to some people who were scared away by the later trailers like Oh, why wouldn't

[00:14:25] like a fun body swabbing movie? I'm like, well, that's what it is. Don't worry. Like that's what you're in for. Interesting. Thank you for saying that because I was so confused by the third trailer. I thought, Whoa, did they rewrite this whole

[00:14:36] thing? This just looks completely different. So yeah, it was strange. It just I'm not sure what they did that. They're trying to claw back some they were concerned about positioning in the marketplace. And so I think that must be it.

[00:14:49] But I think they just wanted to have a good time. Yeah. And I think that that made them fumble it more because exactly. Yes. Yeah, yes. Yeah. Sometimes you don't have to double out his voices. Yeah, a lot of voices sometimes are idiots. Cool.

[00:15:05] And there are a lot of actors your theater, Alicia. Um, yeah, I went opening night. So it was like, I think maybe there is some seats open in the front row. But as far as I could see, it was pretty cool.

[00:15:15] That's great. That's really good. It's nice to hear. And I think this is going to do really well on streaming. So I'm, you know, and we're gonna talk about some box. You've got a you got some things to say, Alicia.

[00:15:27] In the notes here, but I think it's gonna do fine on streaming. I think it'll make its money back. I think it'll be a good addition to the cannon. And it doesn't have to be this box office thing, right? It's fine.

[00:15:40] I think it's going to age well, though. I think you know, people are gonna look back and be like, Why are people hating on this film again? Seriously, I was we were there on a Monday afternoon at 230. And there were like two, three dozen people there.

[00:15:53] Great. Wow. That's a good. I was really surprised. Yeah, I was really surprised. All right, let's switch topics here really quick. We always like to cover a little bit of MCU news because there's a lot

[00:16:08] of stuff in the news these days. So we're going to touch base on a couple of upcoming some notes on some upcoming shows and movies. But first, Alicia, you got something to say. So let's bring it forward. What do you got to say?

[00:16:22] Yeah, and I know, I know, Marilyn also has some stuff to add to it at the end, too. But I think it's just a there's something has to be said, of course, for the fact that I'm pretty used to the response that female led superhero movies get

[00:16:35] by now. But the response to this movie in particular is particularly heinous. And I, yeah, I just noticed a lot of personal around me, but also just collectively out there. I think there's just a few facts that need to be set straight. So

[00:16:52] I just Yeah, I just have to bring in some facts and figures here. So first of all, before we get into the numbers, I just want to point out that while yes, Carol Danvers was made Captain Marvel in 2012, which is fairly recent. The first female

[00:17:08] Captain Marvel was actually Monica Rambeau, who was also in this film, who was named Captain Marvel in Amazing Spider-Man annual number 16, published in 1964, which is what most of the men complaining about a female Captain Marvel or even born.

[00:17:25] Yeah. So I just just apparently needs to be said that female superheroes existing does not take away from the still mostly male MCU projects. So I broke it down by phase and by you know, whether a movie is male led or female led. So we have in the

[00:17:43] first two phases, we had six movies per phase, each one was all male led. And yes, I know that Black Widow was in there and you know, and later Scarlet Witch, but they were not the leads. So then we have we get into phase three, we have one

[00:17:59] movie that's female led Captain Marvel. And that's of course, when this MCU complaining started. So one movie out of 11. So still more male movies, but there also happens to be one female now phase four was like the max for you know, content

[00:18:14] being produced everything. We had 12 male led movies. So that's double phase ones and two, but also they're incredible. Just just in terms of the volume. That's insane. Yeah. And of course, yeah, we can litigate whether it's a good idea to have that sort of volume. And that's

[00:18:29] right. That's another thing we've been talking about. But just, you know, there are still more male led superhero movies. There's just also female led superhero movies. And you know, we don't, the other two phases aren't yet complete. But if there's about 30 something percent of the audience is

[00:18:47] female, or the movies is female, that's actually what's currently the percentage of the audience. It's female going to Marvel movies. And if you stop telling women that these movies aren't for them, more will go, which means that you can, you

[00:19:01] know, you can make more money. They're saying the box office is low. For Marvel's Yes, it was a 47 million opening for the opening weekends, which is disappointing for Marvel. Let's put this in, you know, let's compare this to two other movies. It's not as disappointing as sadly Blue

[00:19:22] Beetle, which deserve better. It did better than Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which is an excellent movie. It's just a hard time for movies right now. And now, in the middle of the second weekend of this film, it's already at 120 million. So

[00:19:35] it's not like it's not like this is going to cost them a huge amount of money. I think that this one could have staying power. So in it's also at the end of this train of negative Mar Marvel news cycles, with previous films doing lower and lower

[00:19:53] expectations, because not all those films were great, a terrible secret invasion. So it's suffering from what other people what product was put out prior to it. So people are, you know, right? Yeah, right. People, people are bagging on the movie, even before they

[00:20:15] give it a chance. Like I had that earlier, like, oh, you liked it, despite it being a terrible movie. Like, have you seen it yet? So I love this. You did a whole chart here. You've got percentages and increases. Yeah.

[00:20:30] We do this from scratch. Did you build it? Well, I knew that like, I knew in my mind that there were still more male superhero movies. So I just had to put it on paper in front of myself. Love the data.

[00:20:41] But for the record, also, the current Rotten Tomatoes score is 62% for critics and 84% for audiences. So Hello. Yeah. Wow. Do you think they're ever gonna start calculating streaming viewers into all this? Because I really have to wonder if more

[00:20:57] and more people are just waiting till they can stream it. Yeah, I yeah, the problem is that the streamers are very reluctant to share their data, which is one of the big issues in the recent strike negotiations. Imagine that. Imagine my surprise.

[00:21:13] Well, and this is where we've fundamentally shifted from being an entertainment production economy, where ticket sales meant butts in seats, right? And you receive a product was delivered, it was given to this many people. Now it's this opaque

[00:21:35] tech world. And it, you know, when you have publicly traded companies, and they have a they're trying to present to the shareholder and shareholder value versus the entertainment marketplace, it's a completely different value proposition. They have no incentive to release those numbers. Because they need

[00:21:55] to look good for a stock market return, because they're tech company. Now they're not entertainment companies now. And I know the movie theaters are hurting. And they're trying all kinds of ways to bring in more people, you know, the

[00:22:07] expansion, launcher seats with hot and cold, I hate the seat warming. It's just awful. Plus, you're supposed to select your seat. Oh, online. Yeah, right. You have to you have to have reserved seats that just so strange to me. Yeah, I

[00:22:25] appreciate it. Now because I know it's normally Yeah, well, there is that I mean, I do have my favorite seat, I like to be able to reserve it. But on the other hand, I want to be

[00:22:33] spontaneous about this. I don't want to have to, you know, go in online and not but it's a problem in my central main legacy. I will get a seat for just about anything as long as I just don't go on opening night or whatever, you know,

[00:22:47] john, do you have any thoughts or takes on the this question of of female superheroes? Yeah, it's all be it. You know, and, and I'm glad that Alicia broke it down in that way with the numbers. Because at the end of the day, these are people

[00:23:07] who don't want to see, you know, women who don't want to see black men or women who don't want to see Latino men or women, Muslim men or women, Asian men or women, just didn't want to see trans people. They

[00:23:25] don't want to see anyone who identifies as gay, they don't want anything but a cisgendered white man in these roles. And to that I say, you know what, I'm not, at least I'm not surprised that this was the type of reaction that we got

[00:23:45] leading up to this movie. I'm not surprised at all. What I am disappointed in is that there are far too many people who seem to want to take on this role and give it and make it as if it's valid. These are not valid arguments

[00:24:04] that people are having. Yeah, right. I don't, I don't subscribe to that. I have to, you know, argue my points with racist and misogynist. Well, it's not, there's nothing, there's nothing to be gained from that. But they come in find you that's, that's the thing is, you

[00:24:25] don't want to watch this movie. Don't watch this movie. That's fine. Like I really don't say what you watch. But just like let me have my joy. Don't come like finding me on social media to, you know, every, every positive opinion I'm paid for.

[00:24:41] And I don't know anything fakey girl, blah, blah, blah. Yes, ma'am. We're having a remarkably similar conversation in the Tolkien universe of, you know what, folks, the books are still on the shelves. Right? Yeah. If you don't like what you're

[00:24:58] seeing, don't watch it. Yeah. And as Alicia says, leave the rest of us alone to enjoy the exploration to enjoy the differences to see ourselves mirrored in a universe that we have long loved and cherished, but you know, felt kind of on the

[00:25:15] margins of and inclusivity doesn't mean you are exclusive exclusivity. Yeah. Right? Right. That's a scarcity mindset. That's a mindset of that there's not enough to go around. And so we have to sort of go into a might makes right style die, you

[00:25:35] know, dynamic, which is not the reality. Now, the reality is there's plenty of entertainment space. And, you know, if if the studios recognize, I mean, the NFL recognized it, the NFL share of women viewers, I don't know the numbers off the top of my

[00:25:53] head, went super sky high because the NFL started caring about garnering women viewership and making stuff available. Yeah. In marketing in a way and their business grew and it didn't exclude a single man from any of that. Right. But you see, if your arguments are based on emotion,

[00:26:12] all the logic and numbers in the world. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just thought. Thought. So as y'all say, it's a waste of time. Always. Right. But unless I come after you as they have been on Alicia. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. And I'm and I'm glad

[00:26:28] that you did that. And, you know, this is conversations that I've had with David from when we first, you know, started to commiserate around these, you know, stories that being a young black boy, being a young black man, being an adult black man, I

[00:26:46] often did not see myself in these stories. Yeah. Yeah. I never once thought these stories are not for me. And that's the position that I had to take in this Western culture that we inhabit. Definitely. I didn't see anyone who looked like me,

[00:27:01] aside from maybe Lando. And Lando is not even one of my favorite characters. I love Billy Dee. But I didn't see anyone who looked like me. But I never once thought that I couldn't be. And for someone who

[00:27:18] has had an entire lifetime of viewing people who look just like them, and imagining them as a person, and imagining them as a person, and imagining them as a person, and imagining them as a person, and imagining them as a person, and even looking at

[00:27:37] people who look just like them. And imagining themselves in these roles, to now come to terms and say, hey, this doesn't feel right. Because this isn't what it should be. Kick rocks. Because it doesn't look like me anymore. Right. Kick rock. Yeah.

[00:27:58] I mean, you still have your superhero that looks like you. It's so much, it's also about how expectations are set. I had a conversation with a male friend one time about Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman. And he said, oh, I just think Wonder Woman

[00:28:15] was so much better because she was so emotional. You know, you could see she was so gutted when this or that thing happened, but Captain Marvel, I mean, she just, she never showed any emotion at all. And it took me a minute to figure this out

[00:28:28] when I think of all the scenes, you know, with Maria and Lieutenant Trouble and all that sort of thing. And, you know, what I came to the conclusion was look at their two upbringings, you know, in story. Wonder Woman was brought up in a culture

[00:28:47] in which women express themselves fully and completely emotional, et cetera. It wasn't labeled good or bad. It was just part of being human. And so she had that solid foundation from which to move. And so there was no question, but that she would express emotion.

[00:29:06] You know, Carol Danvers, her struggle as a young girl growing up, and then she goes into the military, which is completely not about expressing emotions unless it's anger. And then she gets kidnapped and taken to the Hala and yet another militarized society

[00:29:23] in which she's being told your emotions are a weakness. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a good point. Now, is she really gonna emote all over the place with that? I really don't think so. I mean, it could get her attacked, it could get her killed.

[00:29:35] I mean, it definitely would get her punched up more. So she cultivated this demeanor and a little sass, you know, to kind of punch back if you will. But you see her with her, you know, realizing she doesn't know who she is and the acting was superb.

[00:29:54] It just wasn't the same thing. Now, you know, I also go to say that I really think that the gendered costume expectations had an awful lot to do with the perception. I mean, Call Up In Your Mind is- Absolutely. The costume of Wonder Woman

[00:30:08] and the costume of Marvel. What is that coding in terms of emotional expression? Or how Linda Carter was presented on all of that television that Jean and I probably watched a lot of. I don't know, Marilyn or Alicia, if you watch the old TV show with Linda Carter,

[00:30:29] but she was highly sexualized. Couldn't wait for her to turn into Wonder Woman, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, and some of you- This last night on screen, when I happened to see it last night, perfectly normal, basic human shaped costumes, nothing, it was great.

[00:30:48] It was like, oh, you know, it was just, it was appropriate. It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't overly sexualized. It didn't turn them into, their costumes didn't turn them into sexual objects. Right, especially because Kamala is, she's a Muslim character and she is concerned with conservative dress.

[00:31:06] That's a theme from her TV show also, so. That's a theme in the comics. And yet, and yet I was at a conference, a library conference in Seattle in 2014 and the guest speaker was G. Willow Wilson. That's awesome. Co-creator of the Ms. Marvel original comics

[00:31:25] and graphic novels along with Sana Aminat. And they, she said that the two of them developed this character together, of course, and that they were expecting negativity from both anti-Muslims generally, but also from Muslims who disliked Kamala's portrayal and the absence of the hijab in particular. Hmm.

[00:31:45] But Willow and Sana decided that there was to be no hijab for Kamala because most teenage Muslim Americans didn't wear it either. So they were thinking again about the audience and being able to see yourself. Now, there were plenty of hijab wearing women in the series.

[00:32:05] Like her best friend, yeah. Like her best friend. And they had an interesting conversation about that. So they treated it in 3D fashion and I thought it was terrific. But even before the TV series came along, this was still a factor in the graphic novels.

[00:32:21] And let me just point out that Wilson's first graphic novel won in 2009, the top 10 graphic novel award from LA. And then when the new Ms. Marvel series debuted in 2014, it also was, received the Hugo Award for the best graphic story. So there's plenty of people out there

[00:32:46] who really appreciate this. Yeah, the Hugo Award is one of the biggest awards in fantasy. It's the most prestigious award in fantasy. In fantasy, yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So. Very cool. Awesome. And we have some other good news in the general Marvel universe. Everybody's favorite space daddy.

[00:33:09] I have to clear the record. There were a lot of eager tweeters who didn't quite read the deadline article they were quoting. He is in talks to potentially play Reed Richards. It is definitely far from signed in stone, but. The internet went crazy. Yeah, yeah.

[00:33:28] It's, it could very well, I think maybe even more likely not happen, we'll see. But it does seem like the other three castings of the Fantastic Four are the ones that are confirmed, which is Vanessa Kirby for Sue Storm, who you might know

[00:33:42] as she played the younger Margaret in the Crown. Joseph Quinn, best known for Stranger Things, who played Johnny Storm. He was the one who played Eddie in the last season. And Iban Moss Bacharach. He would play Ben Grimm and he's best known from The Bear and Andor recently.

[00:33:59] Yep. So what do you guys think? What do you think of that cast, Jean? I'm cool with it. I think I expressed earlier this week on in our discord that I'm kind of, I don't want to see the same actors across franchises any longer.

[00:34:16] Like, you know, Pedro Pascal is great and I love watching him on screen. I don't need to see him play a character like Reed Richards simply because he's Pedro Pascal and he's great on screen. I want new faces. I want new faces in these roles.

[00:34:37] And I think that- What about the other three? Yeah, I haven't watched The Crown, so I'm cool with that. She's perfect as Sue Storm. Yeah, I think the other three are sufficiently not on my radar, like 24, seven, 12 months out of the year. Like I'm anticipating, you know, Mando.

[00:35:05] You know, these are, I just don't want the cross, you know, references and everybody doing the same characters. It's the same problem I have with, what's your favorite character, David? What's his name? Oh my gosh. From what property? In which universe? Yeah, in what property?

[00:35:27] Yeah, from which universe? We cover so many, it's hard to keep track. Oh my God, what is his name? He played, he was in the last X-Men. He played Apocalypse. Why can't I remember his name? Oscar Isaac. Oh my gosh, Oscar Isaac, thank you.

[00:35:44] I don't need Oscar Isaac in multiple franchises. Like give me someone else. There are many, many thousands of aspiring and working actors who can portray these characters. And I would like to see someone step to those roles and embody those roles in a way that, you know,

[00:36:08] I don't expect because I kind of expect how Pedro Pascal or any other well-known actor is going to behave, their movements, everything that I know about them intimately by watching these other characters, I'm going to go into this film expecting that. I don't want that any longer.

[00:36:30] There's also a factor that it's really hard when I see Tom Hiddleston to not think Loki. Yeah. Although he is such a good actor that he can get away with it. What is? Because he's full range, you know, from Shakespeare to nuts kind of thing. So.

[00:36:46] But I wouldn't want to treat Tom Hiddleston. The exits, the exit, I can say this. The Essex Serpent on Apple. Yes, yeah, watch that. Yeah, I think he's totally different in that. I forgot that he was Loki personally. Right, right.

[00:37:03] Yeah, he can do that, but that's, you know, he's up in the top tier kind of thing. With years of experience. When I say franchises, I mean specifically to the sci-fi fantasy superhero genres like the Star Wars and the DC and Marvel properties. Except DC. Right, right.

[00:37:24] And you know, and I kind of want newness. I want a freshness to these characters because many of them we haven't seen before. Like I hadn't, we haven't seen Captain Marvel before. And that's why Brie, you know, is so, with such a brush of fresh air

[00:37:44] during the Captain Marvel movie. You know what I mean? She bought something else that we hadn't experienced yet. And I kind of want that from going forward. The other three are, I think they bring that. And I know not everyone is happy with Joseph Quinn and Yvonne Moss-Bacharach.

[00:38:04] I don't know why the last one they wouldn't be happy with. Some people think Joseph Quinn's like too short or something, I don't know. But I think that they- We already had this conversation about complainers are gonna complain. Yeah. Right, right, right, right, right.

[00:38:16] They have such like an engaging energy on screen. I'm really excited to see them in these roles. And so which role, sorry, I was wondering which role Eben Moss-Bacharach played in Andor? He was the betrayer. What was his name again? Yeah, in the second set of three

[00:38:35] when they were on Aldoni. Sorry, spoiler for Andor. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oops. Yeah, he was there. So anyway, well, fingers crossed. I mean, I can certainly see why they would wanna pull somebody like Pedro Pascal. Absolutely, absolutely.

[00:38:53] He's got star power and it's gonna bring a lot of- He's great. He's a hell of an actor. He's great at what he does. Yeah, but I want someone who gets me excited about the Fantastic Four because I'm not. What? I know, I know.

[00:39:10] All right, so who's next on our list here? Well, another casting, it seems like it's officially, unofficially confirmed by Robert Kirkman of all people who was talking in an interview about Invincible and just like dropped that, you know, Steven Yeun plays the lead character Mark in Invincible.

[00:39:28] And he was like, oh yeah, and he was at a costume fitting to play Sentry in Marvel. Like, oh, okay, so that's confirmed. It was long rumored, so yeah. What's, just a really quick blip on who is Sentry because I don't know that character.

[00:39:42] He, it's such a great character because he has a split personality. Okay. I don't wanna really spoil, spoil stuff because- People also call him evil Superman offhand, but I think, I know that's simplistic. I don't think he's a direct Superman, you know, rip off.

[00:40:02] I think Marvel has somebody else who is that in Hyperion, but Sentry is a really complex character because he embodies both good and evil and he's really, I don't know how they will make him as powerful in the MCU as he is in the comics. Okay.

[00:40:23] Because he's one of the, yeah, he's a powerhouse in the comics. Got it. So it'll be interesting to see. And this part of the run up for the Thunderbolts? Yeah, he'll be in the Thunderbolts, yeah. Okay, got it. Yeah. Awesome.

[00:40:36] All right, Madame Web, we have a trailer for- I know, Marilyn, you were excited about the Madame Web trailer. Yeah, it really drew my attention. I don't have a clue who, what, where, how, why. I just, ah! That's the important thing is that it draws- This looks interesting.

[00:40:51] Yeah, exactly. So well done, you know, whoever did the trailer, they earned their cut that week. Yes, they did. Yes, they did. So what's the intel on the title here? Well, she's, yeah, she's from the Spider-verse. Okay. She's, I mean, they're changing-

[00:41:10] This is a Sony, this is the Sony Spider-world. This is on the Sony side. Yeah, yeah. I find all that so confusing. Just give it up, folks. Just give it, play nice. Find a big sandbox and play nice, okay? Look, Marilyn, if you can navigate the waters

[00:41:25] of the Tolkien IP and who has rights to what, it's about the same over on the Marvel side of things. Well, that's my Quaker secret superpower. Okay. But only for one universe, that's about all I have to do for it. Enough, yeah, exactly.

[00:41:40] So Alicia, you were talking about the- Yeah, so they seem to be changing some things from the comics, but she's a clairvoyant, as you can see in the trailer. And well, I don't know what I should say about from the comics, because maybe that's a spoiler about-

[00:41:56] Right, okay. But Jean, I see you made a note about Inheritors and I was wondering the same thing. We brought, we talked about this also, that they were maybe teasing this group in the last Into the Spider, or Across the Spider-Verse movie. Across the Spider-Verse, yes.

[00:42:14] So it's a great Spider-Man, Peter Parker arc that reveals that, I'll just say this really quick part, that the spider that bit Peter was not an accident. He was chosen, right? And that is the lore going on from this comic arc for Spider-Man.

[00:42:40] And within that, there are a whole other host of nice and juicy tidbits that we get that would be spoiler-y, so I will refrain from going into in depth, but just know- So Peter Parker is the Kwisatz Haderach? Yes. Sorry. Oh, that's another IP universe there.

[00:42:57] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, Midi-Koreans, Midi-Koreans. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all of that. All of it, all of it, all of it, all of it, yes. Moving on, what if season two- What I was just gonna say about that,

[00:43:08] so all the women that you see in the Madame Web trailer, they're all different, like spider girl, spider woman, all different types of spider people, female people. And the reason why they're brought together might have to do with what Sean's talking about. Okay, perfect.

[00:43:26] Very cool, looking forward to it. So what if season two- All right, what if season two? Yeah, so December 22nd, we found out is going to debut, and then it's going to have one episode, so it's gonna be nine episodes, one episode per day daily through December 30th.

[00:43:42] Right on the holiday season for us, so that's gonna be interesting from a podcasting standpoint. Did you check out the- We'll get innovative, we'll talk later and we'll figure out our strategy. I think we kind of talked about doing a preview

[00:43:56] and then maybe the season as a whole in the start of the new year. Okay, yeah, I've got some ideas, maybe we can do some really quick shot things, like drop some stuff really fast and at the end maybe we can bundle those up or something.

[00:44:09] So we can talk. Yeah. Okay, yeah, and yeah, so did you see the trailer? What was your reaction, David? I have not seen the trailer. Busy, very busy week prior to the holidays, work, life, all that kind of stuff. So I have not seen the Madame Webb trailer,

[00:44:30] nor have I seen the What If trailer. And there was another trailer that was out recently that I didn't get a chance to see, and I'm like, ah, I got a lot of watching to do, let alone any other shows that I've got to watch.

[00:44:41] And that's just the trailers. Exactly. So they're pending for me. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm double as excited as he is. Yeah, I'm excited. I thought the first season was great and I'm excited to see what stories they're telling in this season, how they tie into the overall narrative.

[00:45:01] So yeah. Yeah, so for anyone who doesn't know, these are stories that take place across the multiverse. So not in the sacred timeline in Loki speak, but in other timelines, but we have started to see them cross over with each other and with other timelines.

[00:45:19] So it seems like there's gonna be some importance going forward. And they're just like a lot of fun because they're all what if things just happened differently and everything was different? Well, I think we could put a pin in that too because we had the multiversal stuff, right?

[00:45:35] With Avengers and whatnot. And now we had something in this movie that touches on that. So they're laying a lot of work for us to have this multiple different kind of world. This is the multiverse saga. Absolutely. Exactly. Yeah, so we'll go through the episodes.

[00:45:54] They're not 100% the ones we've talked about in previous, but we'll talk about it more in our season one preview. Sounds good. Awesome. And last but not least, Wonder Man. Not canceled. Okay. There was rumors going around that it had been canceled.

[00:46:15] And now we've heard that it's going to resume filming after Thanksgiving and it's going to be the next Marvel spotlight, like Echo. Okay. Is Wonder Man part of the Thunderbolts as well? No. Okay. I just said that was definitive. That was definitive. But it could be like,

[00:46:37] I think it could be a launching point. I'm wondering if we have an idea we're going to get Vision Quest in the future, but I'm wondering if Vision could somehow be tied to this and it could be a launching point for West Coast Avengers?

[00:46:50] What do you think Sean? Sean? Yeah. I don't know how they're going to do this because he's a very, but yeah, he's just a very hard character to, I would never have thought to see on screen because it's difficult with his backstory.

[00:47:07] So yeah, it's a really difficult backstory to sort of shoehorn and present as a narrative. So I'm really fingers crossed that they pull it off. Cause I like Yahya. Yeah. I was just going to say, they've got Yahya Abdul-Mateen II as cast as Wonder Man.

[00:47:27] And I'd watch him read a wet phone book, you know, in a dank, I don't know, just something ridiculous. I'd watch that guy do almost anything. There you go. So I'm excited for it though. I'm still excited for it. Okay, cool.

[00:47:43] And the first two episodes are going to be directed by the director of Shang-Chi who was going to be the director of Kang Dynasty. So yeah, so Destin Daniel Cretton. So that now everyone's all abuzz about what's up with Kang Dynasty because now the writer and the director

[00:48:02] have both been removed from the project. They're gone. Yeah. Right, not exited MCU, just exited that specific title, that particular movie. Exactly. He's still directing stuff for- Well now he's moved over to Wonder Man. Yeah. Right, exactly. But I still think like the same person who said

[00:48:22] that Kang Dynasty was probably canceled is also the same person who said Wonder Man was probably canceled. So let's just all like take a breath and just wait and see what happens. We'll wait and see, we'll wait and see. Okay, well 50 some odd minutes into this podcast,

[00:48:38] we've not talked yet about the Marvels. We had things to say, we had things to say. Let's take a quick break. And when we get back, we will get into our spoiler filled review. And we're back. All right, so let's start talking about the movie itself.

[00:49:15] Alicia, thank you as always for your excellent work on putting- As always. All the points together. It was amazing. Booyah! Booyah! We should start workshopping Alicia's superhero code name. Ah! You wanna know my- Dynastic digits. You wanna know my code name? Dynamic D name? Sure. Wait, yeah.

[00:49:37] It's Walks Tall Woman. Really? Walks Tall Woman, Kenozi Quint. Walks Tall Woman, there we go. Which by the way, I'm five foot two, 157 centimeters. And it's still a very appropriate name. Exactly, exactly. Well, that was the point actually, yeah. Yeah, excellent.

[00:49:56] All right, so I guess you have us starting off with doing a roundup on our team. Whoa, we're a team? Oh my God. Ah! Is that your Kamala Khan imitation David? That is. Hi! So let's, besties, finger guns. No, no, we're not a team.

[00:50:21] When she was regretting doing the finger gun thing, that was such a charming moment. That was so cute. I loved it. All right, so let's kick off with Carol Danvers, AKA Captain Marvel. Yeah, so I mean, obviously check out our preview app

[00:50:39] for the recaps of the character stories up to this movie. But we pick her up here leading a lonely life as the so-called Annihilator with way too many powers. Yeah. What did you think of her in this movie? With her cat. She was like, with her cat. Flirkin'.

[00:50:57] With her cat. Flirkin'. Which apparently, apparently Brie Larson is deathly allergic to cats. So anytime you see her with a cat. Oh, that was CGI. I did not know that. That's funny. What did you think of her David in this movie?

[00:51:16] Did you, how did you enjoy her in the mix? By and large, I thought she, it was good. There were a couple of times when Brie felt like her acting was a little bit phoned in. It was a little bit sort of not there,

[00:51:31] but then there were other times where she really knocked me out and there was some really great stuff. I'm, was really glad to see the storyline come around in terms of what happened, why she was away. This idea that she really screwed something up badly. Badly, badly.

[00:51:54] Like this, you are the cause for all of these other things happening. There wasn't a lot of consequence, but I mean, in this movie it's not Citizen Kane. So we're like, we're trying to resolve some stuff. But I liked the fact that she was dealing with the fact

[00:52:12] that her superpowers, she thought she was doing something right. And it actually had a whole bunch of unattended consequences which is what we had to get resolved and healed in this movie. So I really appreciated having Brie Larson stuck in there,

[00:52:30] in that and having to grapple with that. So very cool to see her dealing with that. And yeah, and then just the whole thing of her interactions with Kamala and with Rambo and Fury. Yeah, it was fun. She was great. And turning it around on her head,

[00:52:54] well, I don't know if that's the right turn of phrase, but taking her from this very OP character and then making her a princess of this planet because of a marriage of convenience was a really fun way to sort of shake up the snow globe

[00:53:07] and like twist our expectations around who she is and how she has to operate. I'm bummed that they cut a whole musical number with the three women on that planet. I'm like, oh, got it. That would be an awesome YouTube release, right?

[00:53:25] Just release that song as a standalone thing. Or director's cut. At least it keeps hoping for. And meanwhile, then we also had Monica Rambo doing all the space investigations. She's no longer the little kid that Captain Marvel once knew. She's now working for SWORD,

[00:53:47] which stands for Sentient Weapon Observation and Response Division, because that happens to spell SWORD. And she has, it seems like she's really developed her phasing powers since we last saw her in WandaVision. Yeah, what did you think of her in this film, Sean? She's, yeah, Monica's great, man.

[00:54:10] She's one of the best characters that Marvel has comic book-wise for me. She's gone through a lot of iterations as I've read her throughout my years, but she's always been really super relatable. And also really, it's always been awesome

[00:54:30] to see a super powerful black woman in the page and to see it come across on screen was really cool as well. And I think that I like that she didn't, at first you could see that she had more control

[00:54:48] of her powers than when we last saw her, but also was kind of holding back. Like throughout the movie, she was reluctant to do things like when, at the point where she says she couldn't fly yet, right? So it was still like,

[00:55:04] she was still learning about how to control her powers and whether that was because she was afraid to or whether she just generally did not know how to. I thought that was refreshing because we don't get a lot of those sorts of scenes

[00:55:19] in some of the MCU movies. So it was really cool to watch her, work through those things, especially given how the movie ended to see her come into her full being and really understand that I can do great things and I can be super powerful.

[00:55:40] And it was really nice to see. I really enjoyed her character. Black girl magic. Yeah. Black girl magic. I kind of, okay, can I ask, did you guys cringe at that line or was it just me? No, I didn't. No? I didn't cringe. I didn't cringe but then-

[00:55:57] For me it was like the moment when they had all of the women gather together in Endgame and it was like, oh look women, this one's for you. Yeah, I think that one was a little more clunky though. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I thought so.

[00:56:11] I didn't get that feeling that I got in Endgame. So I didn't get that feeling. But maybe- I mean, it was funny but- Well, it was kind of a Nick Fury toss off. Yeah, yeah. He's just like motivate- I think it was more about him. Right. Let's go.

[00:56:28] Right, right. One of the things I really liked about Monica was contrasting her with Carol. Yes. And seeing sort of the next generation and how the whole questions of gender have shifted now. And so we have different kinds of questions in terms of how are you functioning?

[00:56:46] What is your role? How are you working with other people and how are you fitting into your place in the whole scheme of things? And it goes back to what you were talking about earlier when you had your friend who said,

[00:57:00] how can comparing Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel and I'm saying she's devoid, Captain Marvel is devoid of emotion. Where you can see that Monica very clearly is not devoid of emotion, especially when it comes to Captain Marvel herself. Like their relationship is emotional.

[00:57:19] Their relationship is something that makes her question and makes her angry and makes her sad. And she did a, Tiana Pett did a great job portraying that on screen. Like you saw in her face, her body, the way she moved around Carol Danvers. It was really awesome.

[00:57:37] It was really awesome to see their interaction because I was afraid that going into the film, I was afraid that they wouldn't have this sort of context to their relationship. And I'm very glad that they did show that context

[00:57:54] to their relationship because at the end of the day, no matter the reason that Carol left, she still left. Right. And that line, you said you'd be back before I knew it. Yeah. And that was the little Lieutenant Trouble. Still there, still hurting.

[00:58:14] And yet Monica knows how to incorporate that into her daily life, how to live with that and so forth. And once she's confronted with Carol, then that has to come out and somehow that has to be mended in some way. And that had such a cutting meaning

[00:58:32] because she was snapped and she lost her mother in the snap. Right. And you weren't there for any of that. Yeah, but then it turned out. And 20 years ago, you told me that you would be back to be here to help me through these things.

[00:58:48] And here I am and you were not here for any of that. So it was really good stuff. It was really good stuff. And it was a great foil then for Kamala to then just go, oh my God, bear hug. Yeah. And we learned something about Kamala,

[00:59:04] about who she is and the empathy that she carries that it's just there. It's just such a vital part. And so it was a really great dynamic for to explore that part of Kamala's relationship at the same time. Yeah.

[00:59:20] Yeah, and Kamala gets to drop a bunch of Easter eggs in the whole code name game with. So what's that about? Well, so Monica Rambeau has gone by a number, well actually her and her mother. And yeah, there's, and also she like Carol Danvers was originally Ms. Marvel.

[00:59:39] And it's a whole merry go round of names. And they were going to, they even made toys with Monica Rambeau being Photon in this. And apparently they were going to end the movie with them saying, okay, your name is Photon,

[00:59:53] which was her mother's call sign when she was. Right. In the military. So, but then they decided that, it just took away from the emotional final moment with her. So they decided to hold that back. Yeah. That's very cool. So that whole game that Kamala is playing

[01:00:09] is a big winks to the comic book. Yeah. Yeah, they named dropped a few, I forget there was a few. Yeah, also not even just her own names, but just other like was it Professor Marvel? Yeah, anyway. Right, yes. Yes. Very cool. Yeah.

[01:00:28] And I think, the star most people are saying was Kamala Khan, Ms. Marvel. Do we all agree? She and her family stole the show again. She was the standout, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Again, she was a linchpin that brought them all together. Yeah, yeah. In many ways.

[01:00:49] And they were trying to kind of hold her down for a while. And then so they thought, no, actually we need some of this stuff, don't we? Particularly in terms of the emotional relationships. And she herself recognized when she'd gone too far

[01:01:01] and said, I apologize to you Carol for coming on so strong. I mean, how's a person supposed to handle that kind of thing when you don't even know me? So she's learning too. And I really liked that. Yeah. The one thing I- She's a teenager, yeah. Go ahead.

[01:01:15] No, go ahead. I was just saying, she's a teenager. She's maturing, but still is in many ways the most emotionally mature. And that comes down to her family. Exactly. Yes, yes. And her generation. So happy to see her family on the large screen. Absolutely.

[01:01:35] Portrayed in the way that they're portrayed. Because so often in superhero and fantasy, we don't get this portrayal of a loving, inclusive family life for the hero. Right. There's always this loss, which is a big conversation that we had around Spider-Verse about having to lose something

[01:02:01] in order to become who you are meant to be, the best version of yourself. And the cons are totally the opposite of that. Her family is her rock. And they love her unconditionally. She loves them unconditionally. And it shows. And her mother and her father and her brother

[01:02:25] are there with her every step of the way. And you could just feel like it just felt right to see that portrayed on screen. And I'm so happy that they did that, where we don't have this, she lost her mother or she lost her father

[01:02:43] or her brother was killed or some tragedy that happened. It doesn't have to be a Peter Parker event. It doesn't have to be, doesn't have to be, doesn't have to be the canon event where you'd lose something so grave,

[01:02:59] so important in your life that it propels you forward to become the great person that you were set to be. Right, a pain, a trauma, taking a trauma. Jean, you're ringing so many bells for me because this is a classic trope of the Bildungsroman, the youth growing up,

[01:03:19] or the Harry Potter story where yes, you have to eliminate parents so that you can be the focus of attention and learn all these lessons. In Tahanu, we see something quite different. It's not sacrifice to grow and to gain. That is frowned upon.

[01:03:37] So, I mean, you're giving me chills when I'm thinking about all these stories, all the different ways they handle this question. And you're absolutely right. It never occurred to me before, but this is the complete opposite, isn't it? My grandmother sent it to me in the mail.

[01:03:50] Right, right. Hello, what, excuse me? You didn't have to go on a trek and lose half the team to find the bangle? And it's really clear that this is, for me being Haitian American, born in the States, grew up with Creole, English, French,

[01:04:14] and all sorts of patois going on in my life as a child. Right? This idea that you have to lose a part of yourself, your family life is foreign for me. It's not, it doesn't hold weight for me. That is a very Western Protestant type of attitude

[01:04:41] of looking at families. Like you grow up- I don't know. I think it's just like, it comes from the Northern, especially places where it was just a hard fact of life. Yeah, yeah. You would starve and die. There's no purging. Yeah. Well, yeah.

[01:05:00] There's no purging in the media. It's been creepier. Yeah. Even creepier with the North side. Yeah. Right. But also, but from a psychological standpoint, the healthiest people are the people who come from well-supported environments. And we should be celebrating this more on screen and encouraging this. Seriously.

[01:05:18] Yeah, yeah. These are the people we want to be our leaders. So it's possible to have drama in other ways. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It's possible to be tested in other ways. Bring this full, to bring this around then too, here's Brie Larson, here's Captain Marvel,

[01:05:36] who did suffer a trauma to gain power. She's living this lonely existence out in space. Yes. With her flirkin' in her, it's a cool pad, right? She's got it all dialed in. It looks like a very comfortable place. Totally want to hang out there.

[01:05:55] But then along comes Kamala, who is from a big family, where that's vibrant and alive and loving and expression. And what does she do? She's like, not at first she fangirls, but then she deals with that. But then yeah, she's empathy, she's love.

[01:06:11] I'm not gonna stuff my feelings in a way to hide them. I'm gonna be out here with you, connected to you and shower you with this attention. And that's what Captain Marvel needed to be brought back in. Not only for that, not only to be brought back in,

[01:06:35] I think Brie Larson needed this to get back to that place and that event for which she was named the Annihilator. Right. And deal with the deep emotional layer of that, which I plan on talking about later. I can talk about it now too.

[01:06:54] Well, and then what does she do? The heart is, you know, the sun is dead and cold or dying and she reignites it. She reignites the heart. Yeah. Yep. It's a great film, man. It was really good stuff. Yeah. It was good stuff, I'm just saying.

[01:07:11] There's a lot of good stuff in here. A lot of good stuff in here. So yeah, no, I thought it was a lot of fun. They have this whole, you know, just don't like think too hard about the whole cosmic quantum entanglement.

[01:07:22] We've been talking a lot about quantum entanglement. This is, you know, we've got Kamala, has her hard light powers and we have, I'm gonna call her photon with her phasing powers. And, you know, they all have sort of these energy light-based powers and they just have,

[01:07:41] so anytime they're using them at the same time, they swap places. And that was just everything around that. Like the whole montage was just so much fun where like with Kamala's family's getting involved in their living room, Goose is getting like carried around with them

[01:07:56] and he's just like swallowing these crease holders one place, spitting them up another place. And Nick Fury's just there in a chair the whole time. Like what the fuck's going on? From a storytelling mechanic standpoint, the movie did a really good job of introducing us

[01:08:14] to the big bad, setting up some personal stakes for our primary characters and then boom, getting us right into the action, setting up the complexity of the entanglement and then delivering on that. So in training us so that when we do later,

[01:08:34] when they have to figure it out and figure out how we're gonna work together, we as an audience already fully understand the mechanics of what's involved. Who cares about the photon wave with the inverse coupling of the photonic transfer,

[01:08:49] whatever, we just know that if they use their powers, this thing happens. Simultaneously. Yeah. Felicia pointed this out. It's very important to catch that little line as long as we're using them at the same time. Right, right. At the same time. Yeah.

[01:09:05] Right, because people were complaining it was inconsistent. Like no, it's because they weren't, it has to be at the same time. Exactly. So really good job on Nia DaCosta's storytelling standpoint of, and who's the script writer who wrote this one? Felicia, do we have that?

[01:09:20] It was, there's like four. So yeah, we talked about it. Okay. We went, they'll bring something different to the table. We talked about that in the preview episode. Yeah, and so bringing that together and then the way that they're, plus then they're editing, right?

[01:09:34] Because we know that they did a lot of chop and change on this. So the way that they brought that around and that gave us that sense of entertainment, hey, this is going to be a good time. And this is really funny, you know,

[01:09:46] when they're in the space elevator going around in circle and then in the Khan family living room, it was a really great slapstick. It was a slapstick, a traditional slapstick style sort of thing. And I think that's what gave me a lot of the energy of,

[01:10:01] oh, this is going to be a fun romp because they didn't waste time setting that up and then getting it just, they went straight into it as fast as they could. Yeah. I like this approach to this kind of swapping this better

[01:10:14] than how they handled it in Loki. I found that Loki was much more opaque and it really took me a while to figure out what the heck is going on, which, you know, on the one hand, that's fine.

[01:10:27] A lot of people like that, but here it was quick. It was upfront, you knew right away what was going on and it was amusing. Now the visuals, Loki, you know, time-wrapping, I mean, that was phenomenal, that particular device,

[01:10:41] but I just found it easier to follow this throughout than I did some of the Loki stuff. So that's interesting too, because they had a hundred, this movie times out at 105 minutes where we had six episodes of Loki, you know, which were pushing 40 to 50 minute episodes.

[01:11:00] So, you know, what you can do, a good tight movie can deliver so much on plot and character, motivation, all of those kinds of things when it really knows what it wants to say. And I really liked how they also tangled their memories

[01:11:18] using that device, that Kree device and they're all just can't help but think about these things and that's how Monica finds out that she did go back to see Maria before she died. And this is how they end up being forced

[01:11:33] to talk about things that it wouldn't feel natural for, especially Captain Marvel as a character to just say, she's not that type. Now she's forced to confront it. Yeah, so I thought that was some good writing. Very good. All right, well, let's talk about Dar Ben.

[01:11:50] So Jean, you, this is like, we talked about this before and you said like, you didn't even wanna read about it because this is someone who's only been in like two issues of the comics. Yeah, yeah, and not a very important character, I don't think. No.

[01:12:07] But she was great. Yeah. Like she was a green villain. She was a green villain. I could also just like stare at her face all day. So that's one thing, but also I think she just has a really captivating face. But I also found her motivations.

[01:12:27] They didn't have to give me her whole childhood story or something, but her motivations resonated with me. Exactly. She was a great villain. She had a purpose, she had a plan, she had a reason. And yeah, I was totally on board with it.

[01:12:42] I thought she did a great job of being serious and being no nonsense and really wanting to get her objective done, no matter the cost, no matter who had to pay and wanting some measure of revenge. And that was really cool to see.

[01:13:04] It wasn't like this universe shattering drama, right? Yeah. Like I don't wanna take over the world. I don't wanna take over my galaxy, the universe. I don't wanna end everything. I just want to fix some things for my people

[01:13:22] and I'm gonna do it no matter who gets hurt in the process. Yeah, so the story of her is like completely different in those two comic issues, but there's still, you know, it was a male Darben and they co-ruled with someone,

[01:13:36] but it was sort of, it was the idea was I'm going to take back justice for my people and then get killed two issues later. So I was totally on board with her. Her portrayal was, Ashton's portrayal was really great. She was really awesome.

[01:13:56] I thought her holding the universal weapon and just, you know, wielding it in the way that she did just showed how powerful she could be. She was, and she is, and I thoroughly enjoyed watching her on screen. Yeah, the complete- Yeah, every time. I was gonna say, Marilyn,

[01:14:16] it feeds into what you were saying earlier about Captain Marvel. Yeah, every time I looked at her face, I thought, oh, I don't ever want to meet her face to face. Right, exactly, yeah. She didn't have to say anything. She didn't have to gesture.

[01:14:28] I mean, it was all in her eyes. Just the look. And you put in our notes here, Alicia, that there were complaints that she was too flat. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking. What movie were you watching? What, you know, what, again, this gender expectation

[01:14:46] of displaying emotion or not displaying. Darned if you do, darned if you don't kind of thing. It just, I'm astounded at that because, oh, she keep me pretty. My only complaint would have been that she didn't have enough- Enough to do, yes. Yeah, absolutely.

[01:15:02] She was very singular dimension and she played it well, but boy, I would have loved to spend some more time. I love the timbre of her voice. I love Zowie Ashton's, just like you were saying, her look and her presence on stage. The fact that she's a,

[01:15:17] I love it when stage actors come on screen because the way they comport themselves, the way that they hold their physical body in some ways and the way that they speak, you can really think, wow, this person on stage would be a powerhouse.

[01:15:32] I would love to see her in some live performances. I just couldn't get enough of her. Yeah, and again, her backstory, PTSD, deep grief and this deranged utter conviction of the rightness of her course of action, which ironically was exactly the sorts of things

[01:15:53] that Carol was displaying when she went and did what she did. Good point. They're like mirrors of each other. Yeah, absolutely. Totally. And in the opposite too. And the very fundamental violence begets violence, right? And actions have consequences

[01:16:07] even if you're a superhero on the quote unquote good side. Yeah. And where the tables turned, they might've found themselves in the same opposite positions. Right. I would think so. When we have the flashback scene of the Annihilator annihilating

[01:16:25] and we see Captain Marvel there with the glowing eyes and the sort of on fire persona, you really got the sense of like, oh yeah, right? We got her story on the other side. Well, yeah. Right. It was a really great way to-

[01:16:45] Yeah, her killing the universal intelligence or the supreme intelligence is like, it's like Sylvie and Loki killing the time. Yeah. Yes. Like she's doing it. She's like, I want to set everyone free without fully thinking through all of the consequences

[01:17:02] because you don't know what the consequences are really. There's always going to be massive consequences. So a little more than a touch of revenge there for Carol. Yeah, yeah. And understandably so she was kidnapped. She lost six years of her life. She didn't know who she was.

[01:17:20] They used her and that incredible line from the movie which made me stand up and cheer in the theater. I've been fighting my whole life with one hand tied behind me. What happens when I'm finally free? That's the women's movement in a nutshell right there.

[01:17:43] Period, paragraph, end of story. It was brilliant. And the flip side of that is your actions still have consequences. Yeah. So I do have to say one thing that I hoped was in the movie and wasn't was any reference to the 10 rings. So we have the universal weapon

[01:18:06] slash it's been previously called the Cosmorod. And so that was the same staff that was carried by Ronan the accuser and Garry. I refuse to call it the Cosmorod. I recognized it, I was so proud of myself. You have to keep it together. What were you saying, Joel?

[01:18:18] I refuse to call it the Cosmorod because it's not. I'm sorry, no, I'm not going to go there. No, no, no, no. Your exuberance is warranted. It's okay. That's needed. That's needed, but it is the universal weapon. It is the universal weapon. Previously wielded by.

[01:18:38] By Ronan the accuser. By Ronan. Who is played by our favorite Lee Pace from the film. Oh right, yeah, good point, good point. It was kind of a breakout role for Lee Pace, I believe. I think so. I think so. And then Thranduil came along after that. Yeah.

[01:18:53] And it was infused, it's purple energy because it was infused with energy from the Power Stone. So it also has that purple cosmic energy like the bangles. So. Right. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah, we saw the first bangle in Ms. Marvel and now we have found the second one.

[01:19:11] So Jean, I don't know if you want to comics corner this a little bit or. I don't because they're not the Quantum Bands. They're not the Mega Bands. Well, they are calling them the Quantum Bands. I know they are, but I'm. They didn't ask Jean.

[01:19:28] You're doing it boys, Jean. Just like I'm not calling it the Cosmic Rod. The Cosmic Rod. I am not doing it, I'm not doing it until I get real firm confirmations that they are Quantum Bands, but because it's a whole.

[01:19:44] Well, they did change it to Universal Weapon, yeah. Right, so exactly. But because Quantum Bands to me is a whole other hero, it's a whole other mythology, a whole other backstory. So they could presumably, you know, recant some things, but up to this point they haven't.

[01:20:05] So I'm hesitant to call it that yet. What about the Mega Bands? Can they be in the Mega Bands? Because Captain Marvel wielded those. Right, the original Captain Marvel. And they were based on the Quantum Bands. So yeah, so the Quantum Bands were made for Quasar.

[01:20:21] So that's another character. And yeah, it was made by Eon, which is one of the statues we saw in Thor 4 and the properties Harlite. So yeah, and then the Mega Bands were later based on the Quantum Bands and these cause entanglement,

[01:20:39] which is what we see happening in this movie. So I feel like these two types of bands have emerged and it also makes someone get trapped in the negative zone, but we have not seen the negative zone, although maybe it's a Nor dimension,

[01:20:52] which they didn't bring that up either. Right, they didn't bring it up. In Ms. Marvel, there's a whole other dimension that they introduced and yeah, they didn't bring it back. Where the bands are supposedly from, the people who wield them,

[01:21:06] the beings who wield them are from this other dimension. And you know, we commonly know them on earth as Djinn. So- Or the clandestines, yeah. Or the clandestines in Ms. Marvel, that's what they called themselves. But again, the Mega Bands were Captain Marvel,

[01:21:29] Carol Danvers had Captain Marvel powers who was also a Kree warrior. Okay, he was one of the OP characters in Marvel in the 70s and 80s who died of cancer. Cancer took a while. But his power set was almost not exactly like Carol Danvers,

[01:21:56] but a lot of it is the flight, the superhuman strength, the endurance, the being able to survive in outer space. And he was also a Kree, right? So a lot of her background story tangles with this Captain Marvel from the comic books.

[01:22:16] Who we haven't seen or hasn't been mentioned in the MCU at all. Right, right. And that's what some of the, so we didn't tell the people that in my math rant, there was also a picture of a guy wearing a make Marvel male again. Yes.

[01:22:35] That's his complaint is, it's exactly that we haven't seen that version of Captain Marvel. Right, and it's not necessary to see in order to have Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel. That's their entire point. You don't have to go, you know,

[01:22:53] seeing panel for panel, comic book for comic book, story arc for story arc in order to tell the stories that we're getting on screen. So yeah, I'm hesitant to link these things together at this moment. Not saying that they won't be because now we've opened up the multiverse.

[01:23:16] We have different timelines, we have different universes that are going to be explored in coming films and most likely TV shows. So maybe we will get some of that entanglement. If I can use that word, borrow that word. That's the theme. That's the theme.

[01:23:35] You took it right out of my mouth, Sean. I was going to ask if instead of cosmic entanglement, we've got comic entanglement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There we go. Yes, yes. So we'll see. We'll see. So go ahead, Alicia.

[01:23:47] I was just going to add a question about Kamala. Oh yeah. I noticed that when she's not wearing the bangles, she's now still using her hard light. So does that mean it just unlocked her power, her mutant power?

[01:24:00] And now she can just do it and I guess it enhances it? That's how I took it. I took it as she doesn't need it. So that was really subtle. That was a really subtle thing that they did in there. So if you're paying attention,

[01:24:12] but if you're not paying attention, then it wouldn't matter. You miss it. Mm-hmm, right. So you think they're really paving ground for mutants? Well, they already named her mutant. Okay. In the TV show. In Ms. Marvel, yeah. Oh, right, right, right, right. In her TV show.

[01:24:27] So that is now to, I think, a good outcome of seeing this movie is that my spouse and I are gonna watch that show. Oh, awesome, that's great. It's delightful, you'll love it. That's great. Yeah, yeah. Father may adore it.

[01:24:46] Friday night shows and the things that we watch and we're kind of like in a little bit, we started to watch Hijack the other night, but it's a little bit too much anxiety inducing. And so I think this will be a perfect thing to switch to. Yeah, yeah.

[01:25:00] Yeah, absolutely. And I think that that's- It was beautifully done. And that's also one of the great things about this interconnected MCU, this universe that they've created is that you can watch things out of order and then say, well, now I'm curious about that character

[01:25:15] and I wanna go learn more. Yep, yep. Yeah, and as long as they don't make them in a dependency way in terms of its sequencing and rollout, then yeah, you can roll back then. I think that works well. So. Yeah, yeah.

[01:25:28] Well, let's talk a little bit about Hala and the Annihilator and the Supreme Intelligence. I know that that's a painful part of this movie, right? That's the trauma. Right, but it's yeah, it's so realistic. It just reminds me of so many things from history

[01:25:44] when someone comes in and means well or just is clumsy and does by accident. Like I think about Easter Island when a Dutch explorer, Jacob Rocheveen, he came in the 18th century and found this island and there were people there who had been isolated

[01:26:06] for a long time and had built this culture and had these statues, the famous statues that were protecting them. And then this European came on and used a gun and killed people dead. And then not only that, left behind disease that they hadn't been exposed to before.

[01:26:26] And then suddenly there's civil war and they've overturned their religion and they've cut down all of their greenery. And it just, yeah, you just don't realize when you think you're doing something simple or when in Afghanistan during the Cold War, you think, okay, we're gonna block Russia,

[01:26:48] we're gonna help this other group rise and you don't realize that other groups are Taliban and just how well you can think I'm intervening in a useful way and make things worse. My first question is always, did they ask you? Yeah. But of course that's not considered

[01:27:08] in these kinds of situations of culture clash and power imbalances. No, I think both did they ask you and what are the unintended consequences are valid. I also think that Carol's reason was just as valid. Right? Well, I have to say the Cree

[01:27:33] as we seen them on screen are not blameless. They are a spacefaring war mongering culture. The Supreme intelligence. They're not hobbits. They're not. The Supreme intelligence is about conquering as much space for the Cree civilization as possible. They are very much, I don't wanna say a negative,

[01:28:09] but they are very much, They're not the good guys. They did not play the good guys in the comics hardly. They're not, they're not the good guys. There are some Cree who are good, of course. There are the people who live on these worlds

[01:28:26] who have, they just live on these worlds. They go about their lives. They do what they're going to do. And that's always a greater question of what do the people who just live, what role do they have in what their government

[01:28:45] or their military or whatever you wanna call it? What role do they have in that? Because people who suffer are oftentimes not the people who are making the decisions. Exactly Jean. I mean, if you have Supreme power and you're going to exercise it,

[01:29:06] you have to think about the consequences of so-called tidying up loose ends, which is kind of what it was from the end of the Captain Marvel movie to this point. You think you, again, she made a statement, tell them I'm coming to finish it.

[01:29:23] That statement she followed through on. Yeah. But she had very personal motivations for doing so. Right, right. And she just didn't think about next steps. Right, right. She didn't think what would happen to Cree civilization without the Supreme intelligence who's been ruling them for thousands of years.

[01:29:45] And all they know is warfare, all they know is at least that's how they're presented to us. Obviously there are families there, there are other forms of civilization. They do a neat line in weapons. I expect they probably have some good metalworking

[01:29:58] going on or something like that, right? I mean, there is what this is an obvious statement, isn't it? There's no such thing as purely good or purely evil. And if you're holding yourself, I mean, that's kind of what Loki figured out in the end, I think.

[01:30:14] So you have, it's not that Carol had quote unquote bad intentions, but it was kind of the, I hate the word purity, but she had a very, let's call it a mono outlook. A very simplistic view. Agreed, agreed.

[01:30:31] Of this planet and this culture and all the rest of it. And she had seen the scrolls and it was guilt. I mean, it was just guilt that she had contributed to the suffering of the scrolls for so long. And now she realizes, oh my gosh,

[01:30:48] I'm visiting exactly the same thing upon these people that I was punishing for, for visiting on another group of people. Yeah. And that's, I think it's an important point on guilt when you act out of guilt, as opposed to using your feeling of guilt

[01:31:06] to say, I've got some work to do here. I've got some repair work to do here. Let me stop, let me acknowledge, let me ask, how can I, these are the things I would like to do to make it right or whatever. But when you blindly react emotionally

[01:31:20] from that guilty place, usually doesn't end very well. That's what we see here. I think she was being fueled by her guilt about how she had been complicit for six years in the destruction of people or the attempted destruction of people. And that just flipped and led her

[01:31:39] to do the exact same thing. More bad decisions, yeah. Pretty much. And I think also, her decision to destroy the supreme intelligence was to placate her own feeling. It wasn't about what was right for the scrolls. It wasn't about this stop the massacre of scrolls. Right, right.

[01:32:05] Populous, no. It was you did this to me and now you're going to pay for it. And that was the motivation behind what she did. What she failed to do was to actually help the scrolls. Find a new world, maybe. Yeah, yeah.

[01:32:28] Right, that's what she failed to do. But okay, so we got the one reference to secret invasion in the entire movie. Yes, I was thinking about you guys when they were on the planet there. So we finally see, they talked about, Gravik referred to Emperor Droga

[01:32:46] and they made it sound like it was a terrible place to be in that colony. But that colony, why isn't everyone there? Like what's wrong with the rest of the planet? What's wrong with this planet? This planet looks really cool.

[01:32:56] I mean, I understand the problem now with no air, but. I mean, now it has no air. That's a little problematic. But it had air when we first got there. Yeah, exactly. Darbin took the air away. I didn't see any Dermot Mulrooney's trying to kill you.

[01:33:12] Yeah, I mean, come on. Unless it was just that one little tiny section that was inhabitable and all the rest of it was. Yeah, maybe. Well, okay, all right, okay, okay. That could be. Yeah, I can make up stories about it. That could be it.

[01:33:25] But it looked nice. Yeah, I did genuinely pull at my heartstrings and like had me holding my breath and feeling tension and feeling really like wanting to scream at them when all the air was being sucked away and they had to leave without everybody.

[01:33:39] That was a really emotional sequence. And that was emotional for Kamala, you know what I mean? It was emotional for her to witness her hero turn her back on saving people, saving lives. Well, it was something of a military decision. Of course, yes. You can't save everybody.

[01:34:03] You can't save everybody. Save who you can, but you leave when you have to. But as a hero, as a hero, you try to save every single life and that's what she was looking at. She was looking at this like totally the opposite. This is not a military.

[01:34:17] And maybe with her bangle, she could have. That's what I was wanting to scream at her. Use the bangle. Interesting, interesting. And that goes back to conversations that, you know, with Captain America and Tony Stark about making the hard call. And, you know, back to Spider-Man and responsibility

[01:34:35] and, you know, with Loki, with glorious purpose, all of these things where when you're faced with this stuff, and I think it was a real growth moment for Kamala to see. I mean, they left a lot of people when the ship takes off and the camera

[01:34:52] and the animation back. A lot. There's a lot of people down there. A lot, a lot. You know, when you talk about, you know, growing up in America and Jersey City and a Pakistani family and the trauma that, you know, that those people are carrying,

[01:35:09] that it rings, right? It really rings. And it rung for me for her in that sense of like, oh damn, this isn't all just fun and games. This is real. Right, right. This is her family story. Yeah. As you'll see when you watch, you know, the moment. Yes.

[01:35:28] This is very much a story that hits home to her, like having to leave people behind. Right. This is something that is very real to her being because that's part of her family history. Right. Yeah. And it was really good stuff. It was really good stuff.

[01:35:50] And yeah, and that was the only secret invasion. I know David and Jean, you guys especially were really hoping that we would really just delve into that plot. Damn. Damn. Alicia. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Alicia, I'll tell you something.

[01:36:07] I think it was, they just put the blinders on and then they just paid no attention to it and moved forward. No attention. But is it going to have consequences in the future? Because, okay, so we got that Valkyrie cameo,

[01:36:18] which we have to talk about, but then she ends up, she's taking this group of Skrull refugees to New Asgard, I guess. But I guess New Asgard is also in trouble because President Ritson said he's going after everyone born off the planet. Right, right. So-

[01:36:35] Unless you look like Asgardians. Sorry, Marilyn? Unless you look like Asgardians and then maybe you get a pass. Right. Maybe. Because they can pass. Very fertile potential there. Yes, yes. No, true, because they look godly, yeah. Because they're hot. If you had to go there, it'll be interesting.

[01:36:52] You know? Okay, so Valkyrie's cameo, which was great. I mean, it was great to see Tessa Thompson. She looked good. She was being smart. Oh, baby. But it was the biggest WTF moment for me. I was thinking, I knew I could headcanon it together,

[01:37:10] but then I was just thinking about my spouse sitting next to me going, do I explain anything about this? Because it was just, what the hell? Was that the Bifrost? Yeah, it was the Bifrost. I mean, but that's okay.

[01:37:23] So it makes sense that she would travel there by Bifrost, but then I can see if you're like, who is that? Did it bother your wife that she didn't know? No, no, she was like, whatever. She was like, what? She's like, I don't need to.

[01:37:34] She's a good person taking them to, yeah. Yeah, she called a friend. She called somebody that she knew to help out. So Carol knew Valkyrie. Yes. Yeah. I mean, we don't, that hasn't been like- Do we know how and why?

[01:37:47] I mean, they met, I guess in Endgame, but- Oh, fair point. But there has been, I have to say- Part of the women's brigade. Yeah. There's been some fan shipping about, you know, wanting them to be a couple.

[01:38:01] And it feels like they did give a little nod to that with like that cheek kiss, you know? But then, you know, there is, they finally started to get China to show Marvel movies again. So you see them every time there's going to be,

[01:38:17] LGBT representation on screen, they pull back. You know, there's like- Right, okay. You can have a kiss on the head or a kiss on the cheek. So yeah, we'll see. So pointless. So pointless. Although, you know, when I was looking at the box office numbers,

[01:38:32] China accounts for a lot of it. Yeah, right. It really does. Which is why, forget that, because the Chinese people who want to see it will just pirate it anyway. Right, absolutely. Get that money from women. Right, there you go. All right. There you go. There you go.

[01:38:51] Even gay women. Oh, did I say that? Yeah, exactly. Did you know that that's a whole demographic? A whole demographic. I am shocked, shocked. It's a good thing I'm sitting down. Yeah, so I don't know. So I'm curious to see if that goes anywhere,

[01:39:09] if Gaia pops up again and, you know, all that stuff. There's got to be some fallout. Well, I loved your pointing out. I loved your pointing out that Gaia and Monica played together as kids. That's a very good catch. People should remember that, maybe. Yeah, hopefully.

[01:39:24] Hopefully that comes back. Yeah, seriously. All right, should we sing about Aladna for a little bit? This was one of my favorite parts of the movie. But was it Bollywood Aladdin? Yes. It's okay. It was very, very... So my spouse, she was like, oh, Bollywood is cool.

[01:39:47] And she dug it, you know? Yeah. So. Well, it comes from the comic. But it was kind of a mashup, I think. Yeah. Bollywood and 2001 Nights. Exactly. In the comics. It's called Aladna. Right, exactly. Yeah, they're not subtle. But in the comics, it's a rhyming planet.

[01:40:05] Everyone speaks in rhymes. Yes. So, yeah. I'm happy they chose singing. Because... Right up their nerves. If they would start rapping, I'd have been like, ah. No, you don't. I don't think you guys should be doing this one here.

[01:40:22] I mean, I don't even think Monica should be rapping, no. Exactly. Everybody in the whole movie, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. So yeah, I'm glad they chose singing. It was a cool piece. I thought it was really fun. You know what?

[01:40:37] I will be honest, I heard about it. I did not think I would enjoy it. And I watched it, it made sense. And I was totally, totally enthralled by it. They did a good job at folding and bringing these pieces together. Because we don't know what they shot

[01:40:58] and we know part of the MCU process is to reassemble the Lego pieces in post. And I think, yeah, maybe we're missing some stuff from here. Yeah, we know there was backlash against this part. Right. But even regardless of how they managed for that,

[01:41:20] it did, like you say, John, I think it felt whole and seamless. I didn't feel jarred out of the storyline. Not at all. Not at all. And I really, I thought it was cool. I thought the piece when Carol says he's bilingual was- Yeah, that was so funny.

[01:41:37] That was so funny. That got so quiet. That got such a big laugh in my theater. There was also an audible gasp from the women behind me when Prince Sian walked out. Yeah, I was gonna say, is this guy strutting his stuff here

[01:41:52] with his little wing thing here? I was like, oh, all right, all right. And I'll be interested to see if we go back, if they play, if they follow anything about the comic in the representation of their civilization, which would be really cool. Which would be-

[01:42:14] Yeah, well, this felt like, because if anyone wants to know how Carol became married to him, that's just straight up a story from the comics. You can just read it. Yeah. And in this, it just follows right up on that.

[01:42:27] But one of my only complaints about the movie is the fact that we don't find out what happened to them. I'm like, is the planet okay? How much water did they- Yeah, yeah. Is Priyana okay? I need to know. Exactly, I hope we go back.

[01:42:41] I was expecting a splashdown and a huge tsunami. Right. And all kinds of awful chaos. I really want them to go back. I want them to go back to see. Yeah, exactly. And explore a bit of the civilization a little bit more

[01:42:54] because I think people will really dig it to see it on screen. Especially if they stay somewhat truish to the comic. I think it would be really cool to watch how that integrates with the character that we have. I was a little weirded out at first,

[01:43:12] but I just said, all right, I'll go with it. Go with it, yeah. It was fun, it was colorful. I'm a musician, so. Yeah, just go with it. But it did bring up a question for me. I had a vague notion that Kamala's scarf

[01:43:26] was something that appeared in the first graphic novel. Is that right? Yes. Does anybody, okay. Oh, well. Marilyn. Internet points, internet points here. Because we're talking a long time ago. No, no, no. We're talking eight years ago. It's part of her costume, yes. It's part of her costume,

[01:43:44] but she didn't seem to recognize that it was a weapon until Jan says, use the scarf. Right. And suddenly something went click and I'm like, oh, right, scarf, there was something. So, okay, good. They also had a- I'm really chuffed.

[01:43:58] They had a call back to Monica's first Captain Marvel costume where she had like that white floofy wing thing. And as they're walking out, she's like, this is too much, right? And just throws it away. That was totally cute. Yeah. It was awesome. Speaking of cute. Meow.

[01:44:23] Yeah, how, okay. So like, Aladna, I guess is my second favorite sequence and yeah, the flerkins, the flerkin nest. We had first, they kept talking about how, I was like, why is everyone fat shaming goose? Goose is pregnant. And then we got those squishy eggs of cuddly cuteness.

[01:44:46] Yeah. But they were coming from outer space. Yeah. Well, don't try to explicate the mystery of flerkins, right? I mean, that's probably what they are. But it seems now that it's been confirmed that flerkins are path energetic as well as containing undetectable extension charms inside them. Yes.

[01:45:05] Okay, good. Just wanted to clear that up. They're mini fuzzy TARDISes. They're bigger than the inside. Yes, I was gonna say that. There you go. Eight dimensional beings of some kind or something. True, this is sci-fi, not news. What is that in Foundation? The... Oh, the, yeah.

[01:45:24] Oh, the vault? The vault, yeah, there you go. The vault, yeah. The vault, the vault. They're furry vaults. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go with TARDISes. Yeah. But yeah, this sequence was a gift that kept on giving. Like every time we heard,

[01:45:38] please stop running and let the flerkin eat you, the entire theater just like doubled over laughing harder. And again, in this, we have a singing planet, we have flerkins consuming people and this sort of ridiculous ploy to save the remaining people because of the pods.

[01:45:58] We don't have enough pods. All of that, all of that could have been terribly stupid and could have tanked the movie. And it did. However they did it, it inverted it and the theater I was in, which, you know, granted had a dozen people, everybody was laughing.

[01:46:17] Everybody was having a good time with it. And it was really how they pulled all of this off with the shifting places, the Khan family, singing planet, flerkins, and still having a Marvel style, you know, beat the bad guy story.

[01:46:38] It's still, they made it work and it's ridiculous. I think we have to not only shout out the cast, but also Nia DaCosta, especially on the heels of- And the editors, I don't know- And the writers worked well together. The writers, you know,

[01:46:55] and that's something that we have to recognize, especially given the vitriol that she's gotten as a director surrounding this movie. Yeah, just really, really great stuff, really good stuff. Not everybody can pull that off and they did it. Nope, they cannot. They did it.

[01:47:17] So they really did some work to set up this incursion stuff, right, Alicia? We've got some secret war thing. Can you- Right, so we've been seeing more and more of these incursions in the last Doctor Strange movie and the last Spider-Man movie.

[01:47:34] So this is where the two different realities touch each other and we've been warned that it can lead to total collapse. And so we know that the big Avengers movie to end this phase is gonna be Secret Wars, which is, I mean, not to get too spoilery,

[01:47:50] but it's just basically when all of the worlds just starts massively colliding and all chaos breaks loose. And why the war's secret? Sounds like a pretty big reveal to me. Maybe it's too much of a spoiler. Well- I mean, we've already had a secret invasion. Yes, exactly.

[01:48:10] We're not gonna like that very much. Ramp, ramp. They're changing the title. So the original Secret Wars was a being called the Beyonder who took different heroes and villains and set them up on a world where he could watch them

[01:48:27] do battle with each other for the fate of the universe. The incursion storyline, which is, you know, universes coming together and totally being obliterated, like the entirety of existence. And there are extra dimensional beings, the Beyonders who are behind this spectacle.

[01:48:52] And the Secret Wars was an outshoot of what was going on. Once those entire dimensions were, entire universes were destroyed, there were several pockets, like one major region was being kept for the entirety of everything that Marvel Comics had. It was like one world, just one,

[01:49:21] that was saved from being wiped out. And that's where we get all this other stuff from. Just like us and Embla being tucked away in Yggdrasil. Yeah. Throughout Ragnarok so that when all the dust had settled, you could start all over again.

[01:49:37] Well, we have to wonder Loki's Yggdrasil, how that's gonna play into this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely. They've done a lot of the work. What if the Watcher? They've done a lot of the work that we've been asking. Everybody's been saying, oh, tell us what's coming.

[01:49:55] We wanna, you know, that's what Marvel used to do. They used to give us hints and they used to tell us. Well, they're telling us. Well, they're telling you pretty clearly what's happening. Right. So we have a clarification question. We have timelines and dimensions.

[01:50:14] And those are, you could have multiple timelines in a dimension. Yeah. Well, it's like the branching timelines are basically creating, those are the different multiverse options, you know? So some of them are very near, very like close to and look almost the same.

[01:50:30] Like for instance, the Netflix Daredevil universe and the MCU Daredevil universe are very, very close to each other. And then other ones are just completely different. Like, well, we're gonna talk in a minute about the credit scene, but where. Right. Obviously the X-Men have some sway. Okay.

[01:50:50] And you know, and I think probably it looks like in a bunch of other universes, Maria Rambeau became Captain Marvel or, you know, some other version of that rather than Carol Danvers because that event just happened differently. So it's a branch timeline. It's a different universe. Right.

[01:51:12] But a branch timeline is also a different universe. Right. So we're gonna have to, they're gonna have to explain these sorts of things because they haven't done that yet. Because- Yeah, they have to line up the language. Right, right. Because the timelines,

[01:51:26] I can say it's a different timeline from this universe. Right? From the main universe, to an extent, that's what I'm saying. But it's a different universe. It's a different timeline. In that sense. Alicia, we're about to nerd off. We're gonna nerd off over here. I know.

[01:51:48] I'm telling you right now. We're gonna do the same topic. I'm telling you right now, we're gonna nerd off over here. Giving you a warning. The way they handled it in Loki was all the different branching timelines were not just in the same universe.

[01:51:59] They were on the same world. Right. Right. What do you mean the same world? That's part of the confusion. Oh, whoa. Yeah, they all took place like on earth, on Midgard. Right. Yeah. Maybe that's where some of the confusion lies. So we'll have to clean that stuff up.

[01:52:13] Yeah, no, I guess they need to make this clear also and show because I think that Loki and the Watcher are now in very similar positions. I don't think so. Okay. Oh, okay. And I don't know who the Watcher is. I don't think so. Yeah.

[01:52:32] He's a being just like the name says, really quickly, just like the name says, he watching. Well, I get it. That's all I'm saying. He's watching everything. Everywhere. But he's not keeping it all together though. Loki's keeping it all together. Right. Right, that's different. Yeah.

[01:52:50] Let's wrap up the finale. Keeping it all together. Keeping it all together is Monica who for some reason has to be on the other side of the rift to close it. And yeah, it was a genuinely, you know, bittersweet ending to the movie,

[01:53:05] even though we know she's still alive. We got to see so much development with Carol and Monica's relationship in that short time. Yeah. Yeah. And we do have a loss here now though too, when you're talking about, you know, gaining power and strength through not trauma,

[01:53:21] but we do end up with a trauma here. So. Right. But then they gain a new house. Wait, the Khans are no longer in Jersey City? This is sacrilege? Yeah. See, I didn't bring that up at all. I thought the brother,

[01:53:35] I thought the mom was getting the brother to. Yeah, that's what I thought. I don't think the Khans, I don't think the Khans except for Amir. I think Amir. Amir, yeah. All right. And then, so he and Carol are going to share a house? I don't know. No.

[01:53:51] Because Carol, I thought that Carol was taking care of the house until either Monica or Maria come back. But they needed a new house, the Khans, because their house got destroyed in the fight. It did. Well, there is that. But you know, he doesn't need a house

[01:54:05] until he gets a wife. We don't know that. She hasn't been seen. I could have been calling her boyfriend. No, I'm not. She hasn't been seen. The one thing I'll say about this final scene though too, that final scene was,

[01:54:21] I'm sure glad they didn't try to fly that plane because of things that's sitting for so long. No safety checks, the fuel, you know, blah, blah, blah. Get rid of the squirrel's nest that was swarming in there. Exactly, do not go around here and that thing.

[01:54:34] No, no, no, no. It's also interesting that they're in Louisiana, which is where the new Captain Marvel, I mean, sorry, America is. Yeah. So you have to wonder if they're lining that up for some reason. Mackie. Mackie Miller is coming. I know, I know.

[01:54:48] We'll just talk about it. Sure enough, he'll be here. Okay, credit scene. Now was there two credit scenes? Well, one is, there were, it's going to be two credit scenes, but they just made one like, the final scene of the movie, but it kind of served as the-

[01:55:05] Okay, right, right. With the Young Avenger thing, which is, right. I'm glad they didn't have to make, to sit through the entire thing. So- Right. There's just a flick of sound at the end for anyone who sat through the whole thing. Right. But yeah, yes.

[01:55:18] Because it did feel very, the Young Avenger thing did feel very like it should have been a post-credit stinger thing, right? Right, exactly. It felt that. So I'm glad that they put it there. Okay, so. Yeah, and so Kamala, she was basically,

[01:55:30] Yeah, and so Kamala, she was basically doing exactly what Nick Fury did in like the very first post-credit scene or mid-credit scene. I thought that that scene was hilarious. I found this under my couch. And it was a great callback because at the beginning,

[01:55:46] she was like, oh, is that the, yeah, she was, she was marveling at it, right? So. Yeah, exactly. So to speak. Marveling. I know. You're right, you're right. I heard what you did there. Yes. So this is based on some comics since 2005. Yeah, who do you think,

[01:56:01] obviously the team's going to be a bit different in the comic than in the comics. Who are you expecting on the team? Like, okay, so we know we've got Kamala. We know we've got Kate Bishop. Okay. And we know, and they also mentioned Cassie Lang Statcher, Ant-Man's kid.

[01:56:17] So who else are you hoping shows up on the team out of the people that we've seen? I'm hoping that we get a lot of people that we've seen. Eli Bradley, who we saw in Captain America and with Falcon. What was the name of the series?

[01:56:35] Well, it ended being called Captain America and the Winter Soldier. They changed the credits at the end. Right, so that, so Eli Bradley is, you know, a character who was in the original comic, Young Avengers. Young Avengers is a wild comic.

[01:56:52] There are a lot of tie-ins to a lot of characters that we've seen in the MCU and in the TV shows. Because you have a young Kang who comes back in time to try to prevent his older self from taking over. Right? It's a wild trip. We have-

[01:57:16] But some people think that Harley Keener, the kid who was in Iron Man 3 and also showed up at Tony Stark's funeral, some people think that he might be slotted into the Iron Lad spot. How would you feel about that? I wouldn't like that.

[01:57:28] But then I would have to watch it and see if I like it. But I wouldn't want that because I think the Iron Lad character means a lot to the comics and they would have to do really good stuff with changing his background

[01:57:47] in order for it to work for me. So I'm not open to it, but I'm open to watching it. There's so many people who had no clue who that kid was at Stark's funeral. Right. Completely forgotten. There has to be a reason that they brought him back in

[01:58:02] and he's the only one we've seen Tony Stark directly mentor in that way. Obviously there was Spider-Man, but he's only his own thing. Who else? At some point, we have to talk about Wanda and Vision's children. Billy Maximoff is cast in the Agatha Harkness show,

[01:58:24] whatever we're calling it, Dark Hole Diaries. Okay, I did not know that. That's pretty cool. Yeah, a teenage version. Great, great. Like 18, I think. So he's a member, he's called Wiccan in the comics. So then Speed can't be far behind his brother. Exactly.

[01:58:43] The children of Scarlet Witch and Vision. Kid Loki. Yeah, I think those are- We saw Kid Loki in Loki and we saw America Chavez who can portal between dimensions in Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. Sounds like it could be useful. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:59:04] And then I guess Yelena Belova, she's gonna be too busy with Thunderbolts, but Riri Williams could be, and Scar, Hulk's kid. The Hulk's kid. The Hulk's kid. We met at the end of She-Hulk. And Love from Thor 4 and the other- Oh, I hope not.

[01:59:18] From that one too, Astron. I hope not. Oh. To keep Love out. What about Phyla from the end of Guardians of the Galaxy 3? Again, Phyla, she is Quasar in certain comics. So, I mean, there's a whole lot of connective tissue going on with the characters

[01:59:43] and name dropping different things. Yeah. I just have to see, we all just have to see how they come across it. But I think Riri, like you said, America Chavez, the children of Vision and Wanda, the three who we already know of from this movie,

[02:00:03] Ms. Marvel, Stature, and Kate Bishop can actually really do something around those characters forming the next version of the Avengers. You guys are breaking my brain with this stuff. No, it's a lot. All these IP universes in your head. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot.

[02:00:23] There's a lot of characters. Talk about walking tall. I'm excited about Kamala leading it, right? Yeah, that's for sure. If we tell you Kamala's leading this group of kids, do you want to see it? I mean kids. And I'd be very happy. Yeah. I would be very happy.

[02:00:37] Even though I'm completely at sea. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Nobody's said young T'Challa and I definitely want to put in a plug for him. Oh yeah, I mean he's on the young side, but I want him to stick around and grow up

[02:00:53] and fall in love with a young Aurora Storm. And we've been through this. Can we talk about Kelsey Grammar now? My wife turned to me and was like, is that Kelsey Grammar? Beast, Beast is back. Yeah, I was so,

[02:01:13] I mean I actually already knew about it before I saw it, but I was so like excited to see him. He is one of my favorite Marvel X-Men castings of all of them. So I was really glad to see him. So not as in Beauty and the...

[02:01:28] Right, as in one of the blue... I figured that was not the case. The big blue guy. Yeah, he's a very strong, very scientist. See, he reminded me of Bruce Banner. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that is fair. But he's more like Professor Hulk. Right.

[02:01:50] Yeah, he's more refined and when he's not fighting, then he's very held together. He's Kelsey Grammar, he's freaking. Somebody start singing a tale as old as time. If we didn't already know that X-Men was on the slate, we now have a full clear green light.

[02:02:13] The light is lit, the lamp is lit. I mean, they gave us Professor X, right? Yeah, playing with the X. They gave us Doctor Strange's Multiverse of Madness. We got to see Professor X. Now we get to see Beast, binary,

[02:02:29] who was also in some comics as a mutant. Yeah, Maria Rambeau, yeah. Right, so it's very clear the direction that the MCU is headed. The mutants are on their way. What that means, I'm excited to see. Fantastic Four, we get all of these space-faring stories.

[02:02:54] I'm really just, it made me happy to see that end credit scene. It made me really happy to see it because it's the culmination. I can, as a fan, I've been wanting these characters to inhabit the same worlds, right? And now knowing that Deadpool potentially is going

[02:03:17] to end Fox's foray into this universe and these characters can now inhabit the universe that we all love is really refreshing and it's really nice to see that play out. Like, okay, yeah, this is coming. You guys have been waiting patiently and this is finally happening

[02:03:42] and we're gonna acknowledge that it's happening. We're not gonna speak in innuendo and code. We're gonna be very clear about it. Right. Which is what, again, people have been saying they've been missing from Marvel. We need a strong direction. We need a clear, strong direction.

[02:03:57] Where are you taking us? Where's the story going? Yeah, let's, that works. And we have some support for my theory that Monica is a mutant because, okay, so Maria as binary in this universe doesn't have a daughter which was sad for Monica.

[02:04:11] But she's obviously, she is a mutant, this version. She's a version of Captain Marvel that got the powers of a white hole. And so if Monica's her daughter, I think, yeah, the mutant gene must be genetic. And so now Muneeb Akhan, mutant confirmed? Who? Kamala's mother. Okay.

[02:04:37] I want Kamala's mother to be a mutant. Right, I don't know. I don't know. No, but I'm excited. Do you think we're gonna see Monica in Deadpool 3? Huh, I mean, Alicia, this is Sunday afternoon. You're breaking the show's brain. Mine was gone a long time ago.

[02:04:58] To put it in a request for all the other listeners who might just have their eyeballs twirling right now. Can you put in the show notes a suggestion for not the entire three series of each of these different characters,

[02:05:10] but some reliable place to read up so I know? Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, completely. I know a good podcast you could check in every once in a while to explain some of this stuff. Well, I do, you see?

[02:05:22] So maybe this is a suggestion for your future podcast. Yeah, we'll give you some, we'll get you some reading stuff. Give us some love to set us up for when all these things start to happen. Okay, okay. I just wanted to point out two more things.

[02:05:38] One is that this binary version of Maria was wearing both quantum bands. So that was interesting. Oh, did not catch that. Yeah. Uh-oh. And also Beast referenced Charles, Professor X. So that means he's still alive. So that means this must not be the universe 838,

[02:05:59] which is the universe in Doctor Strange because we now want him there. Yeah, so it's not the same universes. They're not. Right. Yeah, and someone pointed out that the music, there was music playing from the score of Days of Future Past. So this must be like the universe.

[02:06:15] They were layering in thick there, weren't they? Deadpool 3 play out. Yeah. What happens when a parallel universe marries a branching time? That's what I was doing with the 2-4. Explode. A doppelganger. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Everything goes kablowy.

[02:06:34] All right, well, we've got a couple pieces of feedback. So let's take a quick break. And then when we come back, I'm gonna ask Marilyn to paraphrase her own email. We'll be right back. And we're back. Okay, so let's spend a little time with feedback.

[02:07:04] We've got a couple of emails. I did chat with Dork of the Ninjas. He wanted to get a voicemail in, but wasn't able to see the movie because of life reasons or whatever, but he's gonna send one in later.

[02:07:17] So we'll hope to hear from his point of view. We've got Alchalant and Ken, but first in the queue was Marilyn. And I'm scrolling and I'm scrolling and I'm scrolling. This is a good one. But it's all gold. Yes. Well, how many times did y'all say

[02:07:36] that you expected me to write in? We did. We did. We did. So now you're complaining. No, no, no. Lay it down, lay it on. This is the Lore Hounds. We go deep. We go deep. That's right. So can you, might as well just sort of summarize,

[02:07:53] paraphrase, sort of lead us through the, and this was for Loki, right? This was primarily- This was for Loki, yeah. Right, the finale of the show is all. My two favorite lines, most purpose is more burden than glory. Hmm. And there's no comfort. You just choose your burden.

[02:08:08] Right. And that's kind of the stuff we were talking about today too with Carol and stuff. And I don't want to puff myself, but I was pretty clear from episode five, if not even before, that Loki would have to be the one to resolve it all

[02:08:22] because he's a god. And the very first time when it came up that somebody should go and do the mechanical magic to fix all this, Mobius first said, no, Loki, you should do this. And Loki said, ah, no way. Right? So it's part of his arc.

[02:08:40] He wasn't quite ready to do it at that point. Right. But I just said, who else can? I mean, that's ridiculous. And well, Sylvie, Sylvie certainly wasn't going to work. She had negative motivation. Well, and moreover, she never felt like a god in the slightest. No. Right.

[02:08:57] It wasn't her perception of herself except insofar as she could travel from apocalypse to apocalypse and survive. And you could also say that it was her intransigence that meant that Loki would have to be the hero. And he was the one who changed. It was his arc.

[02:09:13] Now I think back to the 2012 Loki who compelled a whole square full of people to kneel to him. And then I look at this Loki, who was doing all that he can to save his human friends. And I'm just astonished. Just really, really rocked.

[02:09:30] To see what he had been doing and where he arrived at. It was for me personally a weakness that so many things had to be explained or relied on prior knowledge. I mean, I had to listen to a superior podcast in order to understand it all.

[02:09:47] It's kind of like needing to read two books before you can begin to understand Jane Joyce's Ulysses. Right? I mean, a little more explicit could have been useful. But on the other hand, that would have spoiled it for so many people who knew what exactly was going on

[02:10:00] and could have written the scripts themselves. And I'm with you, David. I would love for this to be Loki's final outcome. I think he's reached his place. He went through this arc. He developed his compassion. He's earned the right to be the king of stories.

[02:10:16] So maybe the other Loki variants can take up the other stories. Let this one remain. And Jean, you've got to be a true multiverse master. You can take all those endings and all they're ready. I just want one ending, simplicity. And I also loved your insight.

[02:10:36] Loki needed to find love and acceptance of himself before he can freely sacrifice that self for others. And I frankly thought that this Loki was more human than Iron Man. Even though they both do this kind of sacrifice. But Tony Stark spent his whole time

[02:10:57] trying to achieve that. The only exception of course, Loki is a god so he can continue on in sacrifice situations which would kill humans. In effect, Loki has become his father Odin and his brother Baldr the Beautiful and the Much Loved.

[02:11:15] Which is really ironic because in the original stories it was Loki who was responsible. He didn't actually kill Baldr himself but he was responsible for tricking one guard to do it and then refusing to mourn Baldr afterwards so that he'd be forced to stay in hell.

[02:11:31] So Yggdrasil, the Norse legend, in many ways it was vulnerable. The what? You need it. Yggdrasil. Yggdrasil, I actually spelled it out for you phonetically. So you can practice if you need to. So it had to be attended to by others.

[02:11:48] It had to be watered from Ymir's caldron of wisdom and it had to be healed when the four deer were nibbling off its leaves. Not to mention the serpents that were gnawing at its roots. But it does represent sacrifice. Odin hung himself in sacrifice to himself

[02:12:03] nine days on the tree and then the twigs fell down and he had the runes, the magical system. Odin was much more of an ambiguous figure in the actual stories than he ever was in any of the MCU stuff which is kind of interesting.

[02:12:21] Yggdrasil connects all of existence together which to my mind is kind of like the timelines. Think about it. It's a symbol of interconnectedness and a true king is connected to all peoples. Yggdrasil is an ash tree and that's the same wood that Odin used to make his spear.

[02:12:41] Yggdrasil literally means Odin's horse. Although horse can also be a synonym for gallows in this culture which is exactly how it functioned for Odin when he hung himself on it. And of course the Norns who water it daily are also the fates.

[02:12:58] They know the past, the present and the future which is rather like knowing all the timelines I think. And some of the ancient skulls and saga writers claim that it was in Yggdrasil itself that a pair of humans sheltered from the chaos of Ragnarok

[02:13:12] to come forth once the earth had renewed itself and start repopulating it. So there is that sense of ending and beginning and that cyclical nature. And for my part, I think that Loki's face in the final season is compassion which is the same lesson that Thor learned

[02:13:30] in his origin story film. Caring for humans beyond themselves and that being godlike involves more than just being powerful particularly in the sense of power over. And I'm gonna transcribe those lines that you shared, Janal. I haven't had time to look at it

[02:13:49] about the story and the king and all that stuff but I'm sure there's a lot in there. Finally on the theme of Loki being both daughter and son, let us not forget, Loki was the mother of Odin's eight-legged horse, Shlepnir but that's another story.

[02:14:02] So thanks Marilyn for that and for all the insights. I'm just left with, at the end of this process when writers can write, we get this beautiful deep richness to tell these stories. And I've been on this soapbox before and I'll continue to be on the soapbox

[02:14:25] that human writers need to be writing human stories. We can use large language models to aid the process or to help people understand the story or to aid the process or speed or shortcut some stuff. But this sort of deep mythology and connectivity

[02:14:44] and telling stories from different mythologies, it is so uniquely. And for me to know that there were writers in a room grappling with this stuff and looking up in the encyclopedia and calling up their people. Research librarians. Their research librarians and say, what's the deal with this?

[02:15:03] That to me makes a richness of the tradition of storytelling. This is our modern tradition of storytelling is that we have writers rooms and producers and grips and gaffers and all of this stuff that it takes to be there. So, and I love the fact that we get

[02:15:20] to pull these kinds of insights like you have from this North mythology. I'm delighted to do it. Thank you. Glad that you enjoyed it. Yeah, thank you. All right, next up is Alshalant. Alshalant says, thanks for reading my emails from Loki. I appreciate it.

[02:15:39] Well, we appreciated you writing in and we look forward to hearing more from you. He continues, even my stupid, crazy old Loki theory, it was just something super crazy that came across my mind and I wanted to toss it out there. As an old lost and Westworld fan,

[02:15:57] I can come up with some real bizarre theories, but Loki ended up being more of a character study than a mystery box and this was much appreciated. I think so. I think we talked about this at the end of Loki was that we were judging it slightly different

[02:16:13] and yeah, we were going, I was going, I don't know what other people were doing, but I was definitely going in with a more mystery box mindset. Right. And I think as we saw, we did end up with a character story, which was nice.

[02:16:26] And I think that was refreshing, right? Definitely. I think so, yeah. Alshalon continues, I did go see the Marvels and I was pleasantly surprised. It was fun and silly and super cool to see some of the TV show characters finally on the big screen.

[02:16:40] Very cool to see a path forward for the X-Men and the Young Avengers, triple thumbs up emojis. So yeah, we are, it's there, right? We're seeing the tracks laid. Yep. I like it quite a bit. It wasn't a masterpiece like the Winter Soldier, but it was very fun.

[02:16:56] I'm proud cat dad. So I thought the flerken sequence was very, very cool. Jean, you're not part of the club. You need some flerkens in your life. No, no, no. No, no, I'll be quiet. Well, I think Brie Larson would appreciate your perspective. She's allergic to cats.

[02:17:19] Alshalon continues, I liked the lore tidbits we got about quantum bands and how they were used to create the jump points for space travel. Yeah, we didn't really talk about that, but the jump points in the quantum bands are connected. So very important piece.

[02:17:33] The primary mechanic of swapping places when using their powers was also very cool. I've seen some people complain that they didn't explain this swapping mech very well. And some people say that the swapping was used inconsistently, but I disagree. And I think the complainers weren't paying

[02:17:50] very close attention, right, Alicia? Yeah, well. 100%. Yeah, anyway, okay, moving on. We don't need to belabor disingenuous arguments. Yeah, I think it's right. It is, it was there. And if you got it, you got it. They did make a point to say that the swapping happened

[02:18:09] when they used their powers. Okay, so continuing with this line of thought at the same time, and even had a montage of them showing practice learning how to do it on purpose by using the power at the same time. So, right, it's there.

[02:18:23] In regards to how the swapping initially started, seems like the quantum band being used while Monica and Carol were investigating the broken jump points that were created by the quantum bands was enough of an explanation to satisfy me. They did like a three-part split screen

[02:18:38] when this first happened, showing Kamala's band lit up while the other two were investigating the jump points. This was a good example of show don't tell in storytelling that I appreciated. Indeed. 100%. Very detailed watching. Very good. And spoiler alert, lots of red siren flashing emojis here.

[02:19:00] Our first glimpse of the X-Men and the Young Avengers. Yay, it's about time, multiple party emojis. Fun movie, not great, definitely not terrible. Kamala and Monica's acting performances were the highlight for me, 7.5 out of 10. Thanks again, keep it up. Cool, thank you. Thank you, Oshalan.

[02:19:19] You guys have any thoughts or reactions to his email? Or? He's a close watcher. I'd give it an 8.5 personally. Wow. Yeah, I thought it was a little low. Hi, all right, good. All right, last email is from Ken, who is one of our Patreon supporters.

[02:19:37] Ken says, hello, and this is just a fan thank you email from Ken, hello, this is just a thank you email to all the contributors on the Lorehounds. A fantastic listen always, and after a fantastic Friday with Loki and then a very enjoyable The Marvels.

[02:19:54] Since I found your podcast and then falling in love with all your branched pods. I like it. The lore you go into is amazing and gives me whole new insights into my rewatching of everything. Personally, I don't get the negativity around Marvel.

[02:20:08] I always get something out of everything I watch from them. Just started reading Earthsea, looking forward to Beacon 23 when I figure out how to watch it, or where to watch it more. Or like keep up the great work one and all, Ken in Dublin, Ireland.

[02:20:24] Well, thank you, Ken. Thank you, Ken. Thanks, Ken, that's fantastic. Very nice of you. Good words. Yeah. That's a good segue to wrapping up our pod today. Alicia, Beacon 23, how's it looking? I've watched the first episode, I haven't caught up to the second yet.

[02:20:43] What are your, do you have any thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I think the first two episodes were like fun and surprisingly more grounded in the book than I maybe thought. But I'm definitely looking forward to the whole season. Really glad that there's a second one.

[02:21:00] It would be neat if it was just like these two seasons where the complete story. And yeah, off to a good start. So episode one and two break down in the feed and in the book club, the book breakdown. And then we're going to be waiting

[02:21:16] and doing episodes three through five together after episode five comes out. And in the meantime, we're going to be doing our Dune novel breakdown in the Worship Dust feed. And we got the news that Dune part two movie has been moving to March 1st. March 1st, yes.

[02:21:35] Up from the 15th. So in the new year, after Beacon's done, we're gonna be completing the Dune series leading up to that just in time, I think. And when are you scheduled me for, I'm supposed to be on a Dune. Yeah, so we're gonna in January,

[02:21:51] we'll talk exact dates, but then that's when we're going to do the Dune 1984 episode with the video games. Okay, cool. Well, I'm excited for all things Dune coming. So yeah, deep in my own knowledge. Otherwise on in Lorehounds universe, Steve and Anthony have finished up their remake season

[02:22:14] so they do movies usually on Properly Howard. And they had a series of movies that were all remakes. They finished that up. We are now every Friday, we have a whole separate feed out and we're dropping season one Severance podcast.

[02:22:29] Steve and Anthony did a whole season on that. And then once we know when season two starts, hopefully it's gonna be around January sometime, we're gonna do a full coverage of that week to week, episode by episode. It's gonna be Steve, Anthony, John and myself.

[02:22:47] So we're gonna have a four way podcast on that. It's a whole separate feed. Make sure to subscribe to that, get the season one episode podcasts in now and there'll be a link in the show notes to that or just search Lorehounds Severance

[02:23:05] and you should be able to find that. Otherwise for Lorehounds, we just recorded the holiday special. Well, okay, let me back up. The 1978 Star Wars holiday special is 45 years old this year. We didn't know that at the time. We thought, well, what are we gonna do

[02:23:28] for the Star Wars film festival where we watch all of the Star Wars films in story order? And we said, well, let's do the holiday special. Well, let's get Steve and Anthony on in that because it'll be fun to joke around with them.

[02:23:40] So we're gonna do the holiday special. It's perfect. When did we record it? We recorded it on November 17th. On light day. Oh, light day. It was when the special actually aired 45 years ago and it turns out there's a book

[02:23:55] and a documentary that are being released all about it. So we're gonna release that podcast I think on the 5th of December, which is when the main documentary, that new documentary comes out. Otherwise, we just did a live watch of Solo

[02:24:09] and we have the third part of the fourth book of Earthsea. So Tehanu chapters, what is it? 10 through 14, I think. I think it's 11. 11 through 14, right. And we're gonna record that in a couple of days from when we're recording this. So that'll be out before long.

[02:24:27] Alicia, I think you and I are going, we're gonna talk about Napoleon, the new film. Yeah, oh, okay. Jean, have you been watching Monarch, Legacy of Monsters? I haven't watched it yet. So I'll probably pick it up sometime this week. All right, well, holler at me

[02:24:42] if you wanna maybe do a one shot on it or something like that. Okay, cool. All right. Yeah, we've got to talk about our Marvel schedule too because there's a whole bunch of stuff. We've got Spider-Verses out on streaming and we've got What If?

[02:24:56] Is it streaming yet or is it still on video on demand? It's on streaming now, it's on Netflix. Yeah. Oh, okay. Netflix is gobbling up a lot. Yeah, what do you got, Alicia? And Rebel Moon. Rebel Moon is coming. And when is Echo coming out? January. January.

[02:25:12] Which is, you know, a little over two months away. Right around the corner. Ah, this is exciting times. I've got fire alarms going off. Oh, you okay? So I don't know what that's about. Hopefully I can edit that out. Otherwise, thank you all so very much.

[02:25:29] Alicia, thank you again for your excellent outlining work. Marilyn, what a pleasure. It was so great to have you on. Oh, yes it was. Yeah. So much. We had a terrific time. Yeah, I want to do this again. I want to sit down again.

[02:25:41] I have to figure out how to get you back somewhere. Definitely, definitely. Well, if you haven't read the Earthsea stuff yet, you might consider it. Well, yeah, well, because we've got the Tales of the, what is it? The Tales of Earthsea?

[02:25:55] Tales of Earthsea and then The Other Wind. The Other Wind. Is it The Other Wind that's the collection of short stories? No, other way around. Other way around. Tales from Earthsea is Tales from Earthsea. Well, maybe that's a thought for how we divvy some

[02:26:07] of that up is to bring in some of the extended Lorehounds universe. We will put a pin in it. All right. Good. All right, everyone. Thank you all so very much. We'll see you the next time. Enjoy your evenings. Thanks so much folks. Be careful. Higher, further, faster.

[02:26:21] The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally

[02:26:39] and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.