Oneshot - Fargo - S05E01-04

[00:00:01] Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side. Green or black? John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life! So, we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to, like, pick sides and fight and stuff.

[00:00:24] Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod. But we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like this show. The politics, the drama, the lore! It was made for The Lorehounds.

[00:00:35] And since we just finished recapping season one, we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons.

[00:00:42] And with the season pass option in Supercast, listeners can get early ad-free access to each weekly scene-by-scene deep dive, plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in The Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot, but probably positive, takes.

[00:01:00] The Lorehounds House of the Dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption. Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a heartened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire and Blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning.

[00:01:11] House of the Lord of Sorrow. Welcome to The Lorehounds One-Shots, where the lorehounds are your guides to the murderous wastelands of the upper Midwest. I'm David. I'm Jon, and this is our coverage of episodes one through four of season five of Fargo by FX on Hulu.

[00:01:45] In this podcast, we're going to discuss our spoiler-free hot takes on the season so far, our overall relationships with the Fargo franchise. And then after a quick break, we'll get into spoilers and discuss some of the main characters and key themes and plot points for the season.

[00:02:02] Be sure to stick around at the end of the podcast for programming notes about our podcasting schedule for the rest of the year. God, it's crazy that you're saying the rest of the year. Mind blown. We're almost there.

[00:02:12] For early access to ad-free episodes and exclusive content, visit us at patreon.com slash the lorehounds for as little as three bucks a month. You get ad-free versions of all of our podcasts as well as a bunch of other exclusive cool stuff.

[00:02:29] Also consider leaving us a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. Ratings and reviews help other folks find us in the various counties of North Dakota and Minnesota. I have not done a geographical breakdown for this show, but hopefully it's cohesive.

[00:02:45] We're probably going to do at least one more podcast on Fargo to wrap up the season. So if you want to send in your thoughts and reactions, send emails to lorehounds at thelorehounds.com. Or head to our website and either use the voicemail feature or the contact form.

[00:02:59] You can also post a message on our Discord server and we can include those as well. Links will be in the show notes. Okay, John. Fargo is firing on a lot of cylinders this season.

[00:03:14] And I thought that we might touch base on what our backgrounds are with the Fargo franchise in general and maybe Noah Hawley in specific. He's the writer and the showrunner. So I believe you've not seen any Fargo prior to this. Maybe the movie?

[00:03:34] Let me tell you my exposure to Fargo. There was this YouTuber in the early 2000s named Brandon Hardesty. And he made dumb comedy videos and sometimes they would be reenactments. And I saw a couple scenes reenacted by him alone.

[00:03:47] Like he would wear different costumes and go between the parts. That is my exposure to Fargo. Not even the movie? Not even the movie. Oh wow. I had assumed that you would have seen the movie.

[00:04:00] No. I didn't even know it was a Coen Brothers movie until I went on Google. That would be a fun film festival at Coen Brothers. I like the Coen Brothers a lot. Maybe we'll do that.

[00:04:12] Okay. So without getting into your spoiler hot takes though, but where are you up to now? You've just done... I've just done the episodes. I've just done this season. You told me to remain virgin-eyed and I have. So that the Holy Spirit may descend upon you.

[00:04:32] And I think you mentioned the other day too that your spouse has gotten roped into it as well. She was hesitant because she doesn't usually watch drama. She likes to watch a little bit light-hearted stuff. But I put it on and she was like, oh, oh.

[00:04:48] There are so many moments that you expect to go one way based on what you've seen. And they just go in a completely different direction and it gets you going, huh. What's going to happen next? That's great. I think that's a strength for the show overall in general.

[00:05:04] That new people can come in and just be in it. Well, I had seen the movie when it first came out and absolutely loved it. It's a cornerstone of Coen Brothers, their filmography and the work that they did. It had a very distinct vibe and feeling to it.

[00:05:26] It's certainly identifiable, I think, as a Coen Brothers movie. Okay. And then after quite a while, Noah Hawley picked it up and he got the Coen Brothers okay to make a season of television based off of it. And when that came out, I was like, huh.

[00:05:45] So I checked it out and I kind of bounced off it because season one, certainly episode one, I was like, well, this is just a televised version of the movie. And so I just kind of stayed away from the property altogether.

[00:06:01] Now, I knew our friends over in the Bald Move community. It's a big show with a lot of the fans over there and a lot of other TV podcasts as well. So it had always been sort of something I kept my awareness of.

[00:06:15] And then during the pandemic, season four came out. So I did watch of that and I liked it. And then I ended up doing a full rewatch of seasons one, two, and three to get fully caught up into the world of it. Nice.

[00:06:31] We can talk about, I should say, well, let me say this. There's often conversation among Fargo fans about which is your favorite. How do you rank the seasons? And so officially my order is season two, season one, season three.

[00:06:51] And I put season four off to the side because it's so very different from everything else. Even season five. I'm sorry, season four. I put off to the side and because it's so different from one, two, three and five.

[00:07:05] One, two, three and five very much have that stamp of Coen Brothers Fargo, Minnesota Nice and all these other questions that it's working on. That's interesting. I thought you asked me to listen to this interview and with no holiday.

[00:07:22] And he was saying this season he wanted to explore Minnesota. Nice. So I didn't realize that that was sort of a staple of the property overall. Yes, it's a very important part of the storyline. Like what's underneath this niceness? What is this niceness?

[00:07:37] And then what's underneath it when you peel it back? Season four happens in Kansas City and it stars Chris Rock. Oh, I'm blanking his name. Jason Schwartzman and a bunch of other folks obviously in it.

[00:07:51] And it's more of a, I don't know if you've seen Miller's Crossing, which is also a Coen Brothers movie. I have not. Okay. It's a bit more of a gangsters, 40s gangster style. And so season four is very much into that world.

[00:08:05] And it deals with crime in America and race relations and just how criminal syndicates work and heirs to power, the kids of people. And it's almost medieval in many ways in terms of how these two different crime families are relating to each other.

[00:08:25] And it's a very, very different, I would say it doesn't really belong within the Fargo family. Interesting. Even though it has the Fargo name. That's my personal take. And a lot of people, it's usually ranked lower in the overall assessment because it is so different.

[00:08:43] And I think that's the reason why, because it doesn't follow the same patterns.

[00:08:47] And when we get on the other side of the break and we get into spoilers, we can talk about some of the recurring themes and character types that are very present in the original Fargo movie, in a lot of other Coen Brothers movies, but specifically within the other three seasons of this television show.

[00:09:07] Right. I want to talk quickly too about Noah Hawley. I've become a watcher, a devoted watcher of what he's doing and what he's saying. I'm not a devotee of him specifically, but I'm very interested whenever he has something to say or when he's producing different things.

[00:09:29] He's a writer, a showrunner, and he's sort of a multi-talented person within the creative space. He wrote an article in The New Yorker not long ago about the whole mythology of good guys and bad guys.

[00:09:46] And then the podcast that I sent you, the gray area with Sean Illing, he interviews Noah Hawley. We'll put links to these resources in the show notes.

[00:09:55] The podcast is woven around this article that he wrote for The New Yorker, which Noah Hawley is examining and challenging the mythology of good guys and bad guys and the American mythology of the lone, what do you want to say?

[00:10:19] The man out in the wilderness, taming the wilds and bringing order and justice and sort of all that lone ranger type stuff.

[00:10:27] And he's trying to look at the world in some different ways and challenging the main narrative orthodoxy, I guess you could say, how stories get told and what kinds of stories get told.

[00:10:38] So he's really trying to cut across the grains of what we're used to in our modern mythologies. And I don't know if you picked up on some of that in that interview. Yeah, I don't think he's the only one doing that.

[00:10:50] I think that there's there's since Game of Thrones, I think we've become and he even namedrops Game of Thrones that interview. Yeah, since Game of Thrones, we've been more comfortable with these gray area characters, these gray area. Luthen. Yeah. Davos. Right.

[00:11:07] I was just listening to the Davos podcast we were just on with Maester Anthony over on his electric Bukkalu and it just came out the day before we're recording this. And I was literally just listening to the podcast as I came, came down to the microphone.

[00:11:19] And yeah, Davos, we on that podcast, we talked very much about Davos being a gray character. So. Right. Right. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I'm always fascinated to look at issues like this. It's one of the things that drew me to like the Wheel of Time, things like that.

[00:11:38] It's one of the things I know I've mentioned is probably on our last three podcasts because it's most of what I'm watching right now. But even in Doctor Who, like I love that that show has a main character who's not wholly good.

[00:11:49] He has his moments and he has his issues. And I think it's really interesting to explore things like that. Can you can you root for someone? Can you follow someone who is not always doing the right thing?

[00:12:02] Which I think we see on display in this season so far with our main character. Definitely. Even even the villains this season have moments where you root for them. Right. Yeah. With old munch. Definitely. Yep. It's very interesting. So a couple of other quick notes about Noah Hawley.

[00:12:22] He wrote a book called Anthem. I started to read it. I had to put it down because it deals with questions of youth culture and gun violence in our country right now.

[00:12:31] It was a compelling read, but it also just as a parent, I was just like, oh, I kind of can't deal with this right now. It's like I was in the wrong headspace. But it was really interesting. And Noah Hawley has is in the works.

[00:12:45] And I think they're going to start principal photography in February of 2024 for a TV adaptation of the Ridley Scott Alien franchise. And it's going to be a prequel to the original movie. So prior to Ripley and the whole thing. That's interesting. And that should be. Yeah.

[00:13:09] Do we need that? I don't know. I think I'm really interested to see Noah Hawley do some, you know, to play in the science fiction space. Right. And I guess we did have Bear McCreary telling us that the Terminator prequel series on Hulu was like the best thing.

[00:13:27] Right. Right. Yeah, I guess. I guess honestly, I think that when I'm looking at new things to watch now, I'm more interested in who's telling what kind of story than I am. What brand is attached to it? Sure. And that's if it were just alien.

[00:13:46] Hey, we're going to do a prequel, an alien TV prequel. I'd be like, OK, well, I'll see. I'll see. But because it's Noah Hawley writing this, I am very interested to see. I'm definitely going to be checking this out. That is for sure.

[00:14:01] And I want to see what Noah Hawley has to say because one of the things that Noah Hawley does is he layers in amongst the beautiful visuals and the wacky characters, he's layering in constantly social commentary and observation.

[00:14:19] And he's really holding up a mirror to modern American culture. And I find that really interesting for a lot of reasons. And so for him to do something so not that I've seen of him do in genre fiction, I'm really interested to see where this goes.

[00:14:39] Because he is a he's I think my opinion is, is that he is a he may miss he may swing and miss, but he's swinging.

[00:14:47] And he's he's really out there challenging the boundaries of his own capabilities and what we can do in the narrative space around TV and movies and stuff like that. So he has my attention. And so if he goes there, I'm going to definitely be checking it out.

[00:15:03] It's it's cool. I just can't imagine like how how is he going to make a that an alien TV prequel? Interesting. What is he gonna be saying? Because he's always saying something. So right. He sure is always saying something. Okay, john. Season four or five. We're in five.

[00:15:23] Sorry, my shirt. Season five, episodes one through four. Spoiler free hot takes. What do you got? I'm really, really into it. I you know, I've I've never watched the Fargo before. Like I said, and now I am so far go on. Oh, down this rabbit hole.

[00:15:43] I definitely want to go back and rewatch the seasons once I'm done with my current binge of other things. Excellent. Excellent. But yeah, it's it's really great.

[00:15:52] I think my advice on that just to segue quickly would be to do it in order and start with the movie and then go through the shows in sequence.

[00:16:02] Okay, even though there are anthologies and they stand you I think you really do have to go back to the source material, the primary source, right?

[00:16:10] The movie, because that sets the tonality and introduces a lot of the main themes and the things that are playing out in these stories. And then I suppose you could watch. I don't know if you could watch the shows in any order.

[00:16:28] But I do think yeah, I kind of think you should do it in order. I think you should do one, two, three, four. I think that would be logical anyway. Okay, sounds good to me. Yeah, I'm definitely this is on my list of things to just binge through.

[00:16:42] So I'm looking forward to doing that. I think I was delighted to see some of the cast here. I was I had no idea we had, you know, Keela from and her name is Dorothy in this and I want to go, Dorothy.

[00:16:56] But I had no idea she was in this. And then I went to you. Oh, she's in this. And I didn't realize she was like the main character, but she's great. And it John Hamm is a great character.

[00:17:09] I'm not going to say what kind of character he is just yet. But I. I can see layers of gray even in the heroes.

[00:17:19] All of the conversations, all the dialogue feels really authentic and feels really uncomfortable in a way that rings true of dealing with family that you don't necessarily get along with things like that.

[00:17:32] And really, I'm just very impressed by the quality of the writing, the quality of the acting. Nothing has happened the way I think it would. Every episode, I'm like, what the hell just happened? And I can't wait to see where it goes next.

[00:17:47] I want to know the mysteries already. Right, right. How about you? I was a little bit hesitant going into episode one. And there were things that I that had me questioning the quality and the choices for casting.

[00:18:08] And then as the season has progressed and I'm hooked with the Fargo franchise and Noah Hawley enough that I'm definitely going to go more than two or three episodes. Right. I'm going to see what transpires because it really is an evolving show that evolves.

[00:18:26] So I was like, OK, let me just check those things. And then now that we've gotten into it and now that I understand more what's going on with the characters, there's actually creative choices for what and why certain things are happening that I thought were just bad filmmaking.

[00:18:43] And so I was like, huh, that's really interesting. And then I got to the end of episode three and I was totally on a cliffhanger because it ends. It was such a cliffhanger moment.

[00:18:59] And I watched episode four the other day and I couldn't hold it in my brain. And I even watched episode three twice.

[00:19:12] There was so much going on visually with the characters, with the themes, with the plot lines, with the social commentary that I think I could watch this season so far two or three different two or three times and come away every time with some new appreciation for it.

[00:19:32] Some new understanding of the characters and their motivations and also what Noah Hawley is saying about modern contemporary culture. It's so dense and layered that I think the first time I watched episode one and then going into two and three, I couldn't process it.

[00:19:52] It was so rich and so nutritious that I was getting stuck on small nitpicky details as opposed to really absorbing what this has. So I'm being entertained and I'm being intellectually stimulated and visually stimulated as well.

[00:20:11] So I'm really looking forward to seeing how this show evolves over the course of the entire season. Yeah.

[00:20:20] I'm in some ways, I don't think it would have been practical for us to do proper full episode to episode coverage because the research that I think you have to that I would want to do on any given episode would be like a four to one ratio.

[00:20:35] I'd be doing like four hours of research for one hour of podcasting, you know, let alone multi watches. Yeah, I think if this were not intersecting with the holidays, we probably could have done it.

[00:20:45] But it's like with the scheduling right now, it's just impossible for us to do the level that we'd want to do. So here we are doing a two shot. I guess not. Yeah, something like that. A two shot. If there's such a thing, it doesn't matter.

[00:21:00] It's our podcast. We can do whatever we want. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. This is running over the sea, over the holiday season. So I think at least, I mean, I can't see that as doing one prior to it being finished.

[00:21:17] But certainly when we're done, I feel strongly that we should come back to this. I agree. I would definitely like to talk about how the hell this resolves. Is this eight or ten episodes? It's ten. Okay. All right. So we got time. Yeah. All righty.

[00:21:33] So we're going to take a little break. And then when we come back, we will get into the details of the show. Full spoilers. Sounds good. And we are back. Okay, John, let's start talking about the show in detail. Spoiler warning.

[00:22:04] You know, if you haven't seen the episodes yet or you don't care, this is your chance to jump out. Before we start, before we get into the details, there's a couple of things that we can do.

[00:22:17] Since we're not doing an episode by episode recap, I put some notes in around the production and how the story is being told. Some notes in around the characters.

[00:22:29] And we could maybe do some wandering through and having some conversations about the different actors and the roles that they play. But then I think it's also important to really talk about some of the recurring themes that we get in Fargo.

[00:22:43] Things that are hallmark Fargo that really stamps a show as a Fargo show. And then recurring character types as well. So we can kind of weave in around those, but in the show notes here for us, our outline, I've got all that in there.

[00:22:59] So we can kind of weave in and around it. Because it's not, unless you do an episode by episode, it can get a little dicey to cover the show. But before we get into even that stuff, I'm just super curious.

[00:23:14] What do you think of this style of storytelling? The way that the show is being edited, the way that scenes are overlapping and the sort of flashback-y stuff and the supernatural. What are your thoughts from a production standpoint? How is this hitting you? Yeah, I'm just curious.

[00:23:39] To me it feels very much like a season of The White Lotus. Interesting. It's the same vibe. It's a little darker and less funny. But other than that, I think that the way that the scenes are edited, the way that- Season two, White Lotus. Or even season one.

[00:23:58] Yeah, I think it's the same vibe of here's a bunch of complex people. Follow them, see how their stories interact with each other. And sometimes somebody will monologue for a little bit, which is kind of- I don't know. It's kind of strange.

[00:24:17] But also again, I'm watching Doctor Who lately and there's a ton of grandstanding monologue and that's just a thing. And so it didn't rub me the wrong way or anything. But when you have the mother-in-law, I can never remember her name, Lorraine. When you have Lorraine-

[00:24:32] Jennifer Jason Leigh. Doing her monologue about debt and how we're actually saviors of people who are in debt. Oh, that was so great, wasn't it? It was great because it was overlaid, of course, over Indira having her struggles with medical bills.

[00:24:49] Right, right. And she could be in the pocket of Lorraine eventually. Maybe this is even one of Lorraine's subcontractors. Yeah, it could be. It could be. And it's amazing because Lorraine is talking about, oh, well they just want a pair of shoes.

[00:25:06] They're just basically blaming it on consumerism. Meanwhile, she's like, I had a medical emergency and now I can't pay this debt, which is a really common thing in America. And it's just so different in the worldview. I know I'm getting off track here, but I love the journalist-

[00:25:26] No, I think we're pretty loose on this conversation. I love the journalist going, are you saying that you made $1.6 billion with compassion? That's not really a thing, buddy. And this is where I think Noah Hawley is really showing his strengths as a writer and a television showrunner.

[00:25:47] Is that he can layer in this kind of social commentary, and it is entirely natural. And it is entirely within the frame of the story. Another show or writer might have dropped that line with the reporter, and it would have smacked as some sort of, oh yeah, agenda.

[00:26:06] Item, right? That the show is trying to say. When Hawley's doing it, it never feels to me that he is doing a- He's actually saying something specific. He's asking a question or he's holding up a mirror.

[00:26:23] He's pointing out a circumstance that we're dealing with in our modern culture. And he's not passing a value judgment on it necessarily, but he puts it there right in your lap. Right where you cannot ignore it.

[00:26:37] And it challenges you to make some questions, to ask yourself some questions about, oh, do I have feelings about this? Do I have thoughts about this? Yeah, I think that the difference is the characters have an agenda, but the show does not have an agenda. That's very cool.

[00:26:55] Yeah, I like that. And that's why I think it's so similar to White Lotus where you'll have the White Lotus where you have the wealthy generational thing. And he's not taking a stance on that.

[00:27:07] He's just showing how three different generations of men treat women and treat their patriarchal privileges. You have sex workers in that show, and you have the hotel manager trying to get them out. You have the sex workers just trying to live.

[00:27:23] And they, even the sex workers, aren't wholly good people. One of them just scammed somebody out of money. Everything's very nuanced, and I don't think Mike White has ever, like you said, made a judgment on any of these people.

[00:27:39] Maybe the people on the yacht he made a judgment on. That's basically it. And I think Noah Hawley, that's why it says White Lotus to me. It's a character study. It's not an after-school special where you're learning, like, this is the good thing, this is the bad thing.

[00:27:58] Right, there's a moral lesson one to grow on. It's funny though because in that interview he said, oh, I don't want to label things. I don't want to put Republican or Democrat or anything. I'm like, Lorraine screams Republican.

[00:28:11] Like, just because you don't use the word doesn't mean we don't know, right? Like, you have the whole I voted for you twice joke and, well, that's not serious. We're taking our country.

[00:28:21] Like, if you know a scintilla about American politics, you know that this is a Republican family. Right, right. Or I think they're apolitical and they would just use Republicans as a means to an ends in many ways. But anyway. I don't know.

[00:28:40] I think Lorraine, I think that could be true about Wayne. But I think Lorraine believes that she is a savior of people in debt. You know, she believes that, like, I'm just, like, look at the way she talks to the cops, right?

[00:28:53] Well, you're meant to keep things out. You're the gatekeepers of here. You have no function in here. I do think that she. That was such a brutal monologue. I mean, such a takedown. She's trying to take down Olmsted and put her in her place because Olmsted's not.

[00:29:09] She recognizes the intelligence and the cunning that Olmsted has. Right. And this is a recurring character, the do-gooder cop. And we can talk about that later. Yeah, there's one cop in this town, we learned. Who's just on every case. But I mean, again, social commentary.

[00:29:29] And he's not passing judgment, but he's so clearly making a statement there. So anyway, I interrupted your thought, please, Kerry. That's just all I mean is I think that she is a true believer in all this stuff.

[00:29:42] I think Wayne is, I don't think Wayne's had an original thought in his entire life. You know, that's just who he is. He's just a doormat. And it's interesting because it really shows you, like, the damage that you can do by being a nobody.

[00:29:59] The damage that you can do by being incredibly passive. Interesting. That's really interesting. I really like this comp too, to the White Lotus and to Mike White. I hadn't pulled that one before. So, and I like this idea that these are complex, nuanced characters,

[00:30:15] and we're winding them up and then letting them go and seeing what happens. One of the archetypes that we see in Fargo and with Coen and with Noah Hawley when he's playing in the Fargo space is, are a couple of them. There's the innocent victim.

[00:30:33] And then there's the corrupted everyman. And in this season, he's playing with that a little bit. And he's taking the innocent victim and saying, well, what if the innocent victim isn't innocent and isn't a victim? Because she's in the role of the innocent victim.

[00:30:52] So in the original movie, there's a kidnapping. It's the original movie. He uses the original movie as a template for season five. In a lot of ways in the first episode. And so when I was watching episode one, I was like, oh dang, this is the movie.

[00:31:07] And then like you said, it goes in all these different directions that I was not expecting. So he takes the innocent victim archetype and he turns it on its head with Juno Temple. And he takes the corrupted everyman, which is Wayne, the husband,

[00:31:27] and makes him the hapless innocent. Because that's the position we would have normally seen the corrupted everyman. And the corrupted everyman is the character that, you know, maybe they make a mistake or they're trying to get over on one on the system.

[00:31:45] And then it gets them too far down the road. And they have to increasingly make wilder and wilder choices to try to maintain a veneer of respectability or of innocence to avoid law enforcement. And so he takes those and he turns those upside down.

[00:32:02] And it's, I think is a really fascinating thing because Wayne being so innocent, being so clueless that he's not even aware of the fact that he's a victim. He's actually causing problems by being so clueless. Right?

[00:32:22] I wanted to ask you quickly about Jennifer Jason Leigh as Lorraine Lyon. Do you have much screen experience with Jennifer Jason Leigh? No, I don't. She reminded me of Elizabeth Shue. That was the vibe I got.

[00:32:38] Like if you had Madeline from The Boys, it was the same like overall vibe. Okay. Interesting. What about her? I'm assuming based on your question that you have a lot of screen experience with her. She's been around a long time.

[00:32:56] She did a lot of stuff in the 80s that, you know, were good. Big, not good, but you know, bigger titles. She has a really long career. I'm just looking at her filmography right now. It's pretty intense.

[00:33:10] And what's interesting is, is that I haven't seen her on screen myself in a number of years. So to see her on screen was like, oh wow.

[00:33:20] And it was a bit of a, I don't want to say shock, but it was like, oh wait, wait, who is this person? Why is this going on? But then she's inhabiting this role so well that I can't see past the role.

[00:33:35] I can't see the actress, which is great. Like it's a big compliment because she's just owning the Lorraine Lyon character from tip to toe. What do you think about her accent though? Because that's the only thing that feels off to me.

[00:33:51] And that sort of high, it's the closest thing that we would have to like in British accents, you know, we have a lot of different ones that denote class and status. Yeah. So she's got this weird American posh accent. Yeah.

[00:34:06] I've never heard someone in the real world talk like that. Never in my life. I don't know if anyone does, but maybe they do. I don't know. And maybe this is how like rich people in Minnesota sound. I've never been to Minnesota, so I'm a dirty coastal elite.

[00:34:21] Right. I think what it does though is it marks her while everyone else has that upper Midwest, you know, atypical Minnesota twang. Yeah. Dorothy definitely has it sometimes. Sometimes. And that's an important point. That's an important point, I think. But I think it marks her as different.

[00:34:42] And I think she's playing it really to that extreme to let us know that she is, that Lorraine Lyon is not of and is far above everyone else. I guess if I'm going to defend the accent, this character is putting on the accent too, right? Exactly.

[00:35:02] Like that's a thing that this person does to say, I am better than you. Exactly. I am separate from you. We are not the same thing. So one of the other major character types is the powerful crime syndicate. That's sort of a general and a specific character type.

[00:35:23] So there's always some sort of underworld figures in a Fargo show. And be they under the guise of a greedy corporation or of other political power centers or outright and out mob syndicate style.

[00:35:44] Be they alcohol and gambling in the 40s or trucking and transport in the, I guess that would be the 80s, I think is when that season took place. There's always some sort of criminal element.

[00:35:59] There's some sort of rapacious, hungry, capitalist, hungry, ruthless force willing to do whatever and clean up whatever mess gets made typically by the innocent or not typically by the corrupted every man.

[00:36:17] The corrupted every man stumbles into something and the criminal syndicate then has to get involved in some way, shape or form. So Lorraine Lyon is the powerful crime syndicate. And then she has her legal enablers in this case with Danish grapes.

[00:36:35] I can't quite put my finger on his character. I don't know. Dave Foley is the actor who plays him. I don't know if you're familiar at all. I'm not.

[00:36:45] And I want to ask you, why did we have two characters with eye patches within the first two episodes of this show? He's playing with it.

[00:36:56] Although I will say, I really enjoyed the joke of the guy with the eye patch in the gun shop wearing an eye patch and they're like, oh, I love your eye patch. Oh no, that was a hunting accent. That was a really good quick joke. Yes, exactly.

[00:37:10] Who was it? Was it a Greek god? No, no, no. It was a Norse god. It was Odin, right? Odin gave up his eye for wisdom. If I believe that, if the myth is right. Yeah, I don't remember what kind of wisdom.

[00:37:24] I think it was like all the knowledge in the world or something like that. Something crazy. So the idea that this character made some sort of sacrifice. Now with the pirate gun shop seller, I don't think we're going to see him again.

[00:37:38] So I don't know if that was just some of the weird Midwestern humor that he was rolling out. But I think with graves, I think it's definitely pointing to something about him and his character. And I doubt we'll ever get an answer to it either.

[00:37:56] It's just going to be what is. Yeah, maybe. Can I ask you the FBI agents that are popping up? Are they like a recurring thing in this series? No, they are. Okay. There's always law enforcement and the law enforcement relative to the crime syndicates.

[00:38:19] And typically what happens is the crime syndicate, it varies from season to season. So there's a crime syndicate. There's the good natured and competent police officer, but there is also then the unstoppable evil.

[00:38:38] Or there's an evil character that takes on different guises and different people label that archetype a little bit differently. I don't know if you ever saw No Country for Old Men ever? No. Oh boy. So there's a character in there by the name of Anton Chigurh.

[00:38:54] There is obviously in Raising Arizona, which we watched for one of our second breakfast Patreon exclusive podcasts. There is the motorcycle writer. I'm blanking on his name. He has a name too. But that's one of the early variations of this character.

[00:39:11] So Lauren Malvo is played by Billy Bob Thornton in season one. And he's this, I can't say anything, but there's always this unstoppable evil force. And oftentimes the unstoppable evil force is utilized by the crime syndicate to clean something up. We certainly see that here, right?

[00:39:31] Yes. Or to retrieve something or to do something. And then typically the corrupted everyman gets intertwined or entangled up with the unstoppable evil while trying to maneuver around the crime syndicate.

[00:39:47] And so, but then in opposition to the unstoppable evil, there's always the competent police officer who's good natured and seems very at ease in the world. They have a family, they're kind people, they're dedicated to their job.

[00:40:07] Oftentimes they have a spouse who is very far removed from the horrors and the evils that the police officer encounters and sees. And so we get this great counterpart where the, gosh golly, Chuck's police officer is out doing their job.

[00:40:21] And then they run into really horrific, unspeakable, violent, gory situations. And they absorb that and they hold that back from their spouse typically is the counterpoint for them.

[00:40:37] Who is just the average person living their average life, never understanding the depths of evil and depravity that are going on in the world. So that's typically a pantheon. Having the outside FBI agents in this season is a big departure.

[00:40:56] And I was actually really surprised to see them. Interesting. And I'm kind of not sure how yet to relate to them. They seem very men in black, you know, sort of a Will Smith and what's his name? I know you're talking about. Yeah.

[00:41:12] And they seem weird in some way. They're like, they're kind of bro-y, but they're not. They're kind of, they're working on some sort of case, but we're really not sure. Yeah. So they're an X factor in terms of the Fargo, the typical Fargo players that we see.

[00:41:35] So yeah, I don't know how to advise you to relate to them yet. That's interesting because they felt like recurring characters that I didn't know. Like that was the thing where I was like, oh, I might be missing something here. Maybe they're a through line, right? Yeah.

[00:41:50] It's the same FBI agents going through and through. There have been, this is explicitly stated as all happening in the same world. So it's not like different narrative worlds. These are supposed to be all in the same earth and the same timeline.

[00:42:07] And there is some connect vague connectivity in a couple of seasons. And people have been looking for that and wondering that. But I don't think Holly is really, I don't think that's where his interest is in creating an integrated IP. Right?

[00:42:23] I think he's just playing with things and it's convenient that they're all set in the same world. I don't think he's going to make an overall narrative structure out of these things. Right. So I'm curious what you think about this supernatural element overall in the show,

[00:42:42] because it is a hallmark of all Fargos to have some WTF moment. And I'll say that in this season to get that reveal in episode three was a shock. It really shocked everyone who's watching the show. There are people who know the franchise, they're like, what?

[00:43:01] What do you mean? Like this is supposed to be at the end in like episode eight or something. So I'm curious as to what your, I think it's done something nice for your vibe, but I'm curious to what you think intellectually for the story. Yeah.

[00:43:15] You know, at first I was a little shocked because it felt like a very traditional reality based show. And then, I mean, what a weird way to introduce it with like the sin eating. Yeah. That's like a wild thing.

[00:43:33] I would love to see the Wikipedia stats for sin eater entry page. Like it must have spiked. Yeah. Yeah. It's I think that at first it kind of was like, I don't know if it needs this, but, you know,

[00:43:49] in retrospect, like other than the weird backstory, it's not doesn't change the story that much other than this guy stronger than a lot of other people. Right. He's like harder to kill. We don't know if he's impossible to kill, but he's at least harder to kill. Right.

[00:44:04] And he has some sort of inertia propelling him forward. Yeah. It's a, what's the elf thing? Serial longevity. Right. Exactly. Well, and this idea of debt and balance, right?

[00:44:17] If I'm going to eat your sin, if I'm going to do something bad for you, you owe me pain and suffering. Right. Right. And so there's the, that's one of the questions that the show is, is dealing with in the season overall.

[00:44:31] This is not a necessarily a theme from prior seasons, but in this season about debts and your obligation to debt and you know, what you're owed and how you pay it back is lying as a debt collector, you know, in the debt collection business. Right.

[00:44:48] And with old munch and Tillman, it's, it's about the debt that you're, you know, that you owe me. And also this, I think in munch's head, he's like, well, I already like to get this way. I already damned myself. I already condemned myself.

[00:45:05] Why not make money on doing the dirty work? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think this intertwines then with another ongoing theme with that's tied in specifically to the unstoppable evil character type, which is the nature of evil in society. What is evil and how does it come about?

[00:45:27] How does it operate? And how do innocence or, you know, people who are not seeking out evil react to it, deal with it, get caught up by it.

[00:45:39] Sorry, the kid with the air horn in the show, in the shop, he pops up and blast the air horn at him. He just even much as you in turn, he just sort of points the rifle and blows the guy away. Right.

[00:45:54] So there's always this carnage that's left in the wake of the unstoppable evil. And so how do we as a society process that? How do we deal with that? Right.

[00:46:03] And I think by wrapping it in a supernatural in this episode, I think it somehow heightens the storytelling element and it gives us a new entry or a different way of thinking about it. He uses the supernatural to varying degrees in different seasons.

[00:46:22] In some it's very apparent and in others, it's just sort of a WTF moment at some point in the show.

[00:46:30] So I think that in this show, I think he does really use it to give us a framework for us questioning the nature of evil and what is evil in our society. Right. Yeah, that's a good question. You know, it's interesting. I kind of want to segue.

[00:46:51] I know you said off air that you wanted to talk more about Roy. Which we have to. Yeah, we absolutely have to.

[00:46:57] I kind of want to talk about that a little bit in relation to this because he has this whole idea of right and wrong being a separate thing from legal and illegal. That's something that Noah Hawley talked about in that interview that you sent me.

[00:47:13] And he's basically saying it's a problem when individuals start to say, my internal sense of morality is stronger than the rule of law. Right.

[00:47:26] And he actually said something I really disagreed with at one point, which was he said our rule of law is the best because it's emotionless. And I was like, no, that's not true.

[00:47:37] First of all, just to back up, he mentioned in it, he's like, oh, you know, my mother was a very leading feminist and I've always tried to internalize that. Something that I've learned in a lot of my studies of feminism is that it is patriarchy that demonizes emotion.

[00:47:55] It's that logic is seen as masculine and emotion is seen as feminine. And that's why people assume that logic is better than emotion inherently. Interesting. And I don't think that's true. I mean, look at look at the way our laws are.

[00:48:11] I mean, it's a crime to desecrate a corpse. The only harm you have to anybody from desecrating a corpse is emotional. And that's still a crime because we feel it's wrong. And we shouldn't say that shouldn't be a crime because it's not emotion based. Right.

[00:48:30] Of course it should be a crime. And yeah, that's that's I really don't agree with this whole like logic is inherently better than emotion. I think that both are important to an understanding of the world. And it's they're both present in the legal system.

[00:48:49] It's just whether we admit to it or not. Right. Right. Right. And like look at the way that courts rule on things. It's a lot of the times it's the judge saying, I know that this person should win because I feel that they should win.

[00:49:01] I'm going to carve out an exception to the law so that they will win. You know, like that's that's how a lot of laws made is. I feel like this is the right thing to do. That's how a common law system works because it's not a code system.

[00:49:14] Right. And a lot of a lot of legislation happens based on emotion. I mean, like, sure. And for better or worse. Right. The Iraq war started largely in the emotion from 9-11.

[00:49:27] I can think of a lot of even more seemingly mundane things, laws around school buses, the, you know, you know, the Gertie gates and the flashing signs and that kind of stuff. Right. Why are those illegal?

[00:49:40] It's because somebody had an emotional reaction to having a, you know, somebody being a child being a victim of somebody being careless around a school bus. That was an emotion that was based out of that was a decision based out of emotion.

[00:49:55] Right. Impetus came from from an emotional reaction to something happening in the world. Right. So, yeah, anyway, that's my that was my one beef with Noah Hawley. I was like, I think you're dead wrong on that, man.

[00:50:06] Like, it's not that's not first of all, it's not an accurate description of the legal system, but it's also I think inherently patriarchal, patriarchal view of the world. Well, emotion is secondary because emotion is important. That's that's what makes us human.

[00:50:21] Right. And here we have John Hamm, who is a great embodiment of that whole complex dynamic. Exactly. That's where I was going with all this. Clearly there's emotion going on under the surface. And yet on the outer shell of him is a cold, emotionless, logical man.

[00:50:45] But yet why is he pursuing this vengeance, this style of vengeance against Dorothy to bring her back in the debt that's paid? And the debt has accrued so much that it cannot be paid back.

[00:50:59] And now in money or in some other terms, but now there's this whole other level of justice that has to be executed.

[00:51:06] But I think you pointed something very important, important, not something very important there, which is he is an emotional man under the disguise of logic because he feels that that's the masculine portrayal he needs to put out there. Interesting. Yes. He's wearing the mask of logic and law.

[00:51:27] He's sheriff, but he doesn't follow the laws. Right. And he abuses his power. The law is him, is what he feels. Right. And he abuses his power to go after his ex because she hurt him emotionally. Emotionally. It's all about emotion. It really is all about emotion.

[00:51:46] And I think that Noah Hawley gets that implicitly and subconsciously. And he like doesn't understand that that's what's happening here in. I think that I love it.

[00:51:58] I love it. He's the study of patriarchy that we need to do here is that he is that he understands how this stuff works, but he can't name it the right way. Interesting. But yet it's coming out in the character and in the writing, in the dialogue. Right.

[00:52:14] And even in the setup with him in opposition to Dot and what's upending his patriarchy, a very diminutive woman who is putting on a tiger when a man doesn't say that a tiger is a tiger.

[00:52:32] That she is able to not only subvert and overpower him and all of the agents that he is sending out. And that's one of the other main character, recurring character types is the hapless criminal.

[00:52:46] So in the beginning of episode one, we see the two characters rolling down the road. That's straight out of the Fargo movie in some way, some of those characters. And so expecting that, but then it really diverges. But she's with a bag of ice.

[00:53:01] She's able to take out one of them, right? Completely. And when Gator and his crew show up, she's able to fend them off. It costs her something. Right. But, but so every agent that is being sent an old munch is super powerful.

[00:53:19] So every agent that is being sent at Juno temple at Dorothy, she's defeating them and ultimately subverting Tillman's patriarchal authority. His authorita. What do you make of Tillman being such a contemporary character?

[00:53:41] And a lot of other Fargo shows there's enough time and distance removal that even though the commentary is there, the relevance is not as poignant where Tillman. Right. That's just take it.

[00:53:55] And even the way that the show starts in episode one with the school board fight, which is how Dot gets caught in a way, you know, how she comes up on the radar. But these are very contemporary things. And how are you feeling about Tillman?

[00:54:08] Is it too on the nose? Is it, is it working for you? No, I think it really works. I, you know, I thought he was going to be this kind of like, ah, very tropey character.

[00:54:19] And then he's in the diner and he tosses water into the, the, the face of the wife of Beter and of this abusive man. And I'm like, that's now an interesting character. Like I'm kind of rooting for him there. Right.

[00:54:36] And then he comes right back around and goes, now service your husband with your mouth. And, and again, so we're back to emotion, right? Is, is okay. Well now, now tend his wounds, both physical and emotional. That's an emotional thing.

[00:54:50] So I think again, we're looking at the way that emotion permeates all of these things. And sometimes in a good way and sometimes in a bad way.

[00:55:00] I think he deviates Tillman enough too with the nipple rings and the sex chest box, you know, box that it, it takes him, it adds a different dimensionality.

[00:55:14] Because if he was just a constitutional sheriff, what have you, and he's this flat character, I think it would be unpalatable.

[00:55:23] But I think by giving him this range and then giving him the gun running and supplying the malicious stuff reluctantly, like he's not wanting to do this very aggressively. He's following a script here. He's following the patriarchal script for masculinity.

[00:55:40] Dot, to protect herself is following the, you know, the feminine script for grief and for fear. And for, you know, when you're, when you're in trouble, patriarchy gives you these scripts that you can fall back on. And that's what we're seeing here.

[00:55:56] Dot becomes this servile housewife who is like, oh, I'll bring my blue salad. And that's the mask she wears. That's the script that she wears to protect herself. And we see that even though that protects her in the short term, eventually it comes home to roost. Right?

[00:56:12] Like this will not protect you forever. It's a short term bandaid. And that's why these things are so damaging. And she has to use the tools of patriarchy to defend herself from the patriarchy when they go to the gun store.

[00:56:23] What's more an expression of male masculinity in American culture than some BFGs? With like, you know, I'll take the heckler and I'll take the pistol this. And I love her shopping list. Like, you know, Mac, you know, mac and cheese shells, shells, nine millimeter.

[00:56:43] It's a really subtle dig at that blending of she has to use patriarchal weapons and tools to defend herself from the patriarchy. There's even a lot of great world building with her visit to the gun store where she goes there and she's like, is that 12 gauge? Yeah.

[00:57:03] And like she knows that right away. Sure. That's like, all right, maybe she has a little bit of good knowledge. Then she has like every detail down on this other gun. And so you understand right away that this is not her first rodeo.

[00:57:14] And that really highlights the accent that she's putting on. It's a put on. Right. There's more to this woman than meets the eye. Right. So what do you think really quick? We should start to wrap it up, but I wanted to touch quickly on Gator Tillman.

[00:57:31] Do you think there's a redemptive arc in for him or I think. Steve Harrington. Yeah. Yeah. He, I don't know. I don't know. Do you recognize the actor? Yeah. That's why I called him Steve Harrington. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. He's really good in this.

[00:57:50] I don't know. I think he, again, we talk about masks. I think he is putting on a big mask. I think he's a big wuss. And I think he, he does genuinely like he uses the mom as like a, a mocking thing.

[00:58:04] But I think there's something underneath that where he's like, you abandoned me. And I think that's his stepmom, right? That's not his. We don't know. The question's been posed because we see three wives on the wall of Tillman's. Right. Right.

[00:58:18] And they're all marriages and we don't know Gator's matrilineal lineage. Yeah. I mean, I think that overall you can see that in some way Dot had a, or Nadine had a maternal. Yes. Role in his life and he feels very vulnerable because he lost that. Mm-hmm.

[00:58:37] And even the way that she looks at him, like looks at him up and down, like, oh my God, it's you. When she first sees him. It's such a great line. All the acting, all the world building is really subtle and great.

[00:58:47] But she's like, you know, better gives it right. Right. Goes back into mom mode all of a sudden. So good. So good. But even, all right, sorry, I keep going on these things, but even the way that Dot talks to her own daughter feels like a mask.

[00:59:03] It feels like a put on. She's very like, okay, and now we'll go have a vegetable medley. And it's, it's very, it feels disingenuous almost like I know she's trying to be a good mom, but she's very, I don't know. It almost feels like an act for her.

[00:59:19] It takes me back to the Ursula K. Le Guin books that we've been reading on our book nook series with the Tehanu book and the storyline of what is a very powerful woman who then

[00:59:31] chooses to live a normal, and I'm not saying this pejoratively, but a mundane life, like a life that is not about saving the world and going off on adventures and these kinds of things, but just living a day to day existence.

[00:59:46] And so she clearly has had some incredible experiences and has developed a whole bunch of knowledge and yet she's choosing to live a quiet life. Right. And then like you said, that quiet, you know, that everything that she's done before is not going to let her rest. Right.

[01:00:05] They've come for her. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. I think a great show. I have one more thing to say about this show. Okay. I'd like to introduce a new test in addition to the shippy test.

[01:00:16] It's called the Pukila test, which is would Marilyn R. Pukila enjoy this show based on the level of gore? No, she would not. And the gauge for this test is, is it more or less violent than the Rings of Power? Yeah. And it's violent for violence sake. Yes.

[01:00:34] These violent delights have violent ends. Yeah, I think, but the storyline, I think she would love the storyline. I just, I think so too, but it's, it is very violent and I know she does not care for that. So the Pukila test, it fails the Pukila test.

[01:00:49] I love it. This is awesome. Ah, okay, cool. Well, there's so much more that we could be talking about. I, there's something that we should definitely throw into the next podcast, which is the whole thing of this is a true story. Yeah.

[01:01:05] That is a, that is a very strong recurrent element in the Fargo thing. And it sets up, I think the way that Holly's narrative structures work by challenging your sense of what is true.

[01:01:16] And there's a whole element of the show too, about post-truth and facts and the worlds that we live in and that we construct for ourselves. But I think we have to save that for another time. Yeah.

[01:01:27] I'm super excited just talking about it with you for this last while has got my excitement for the show even higher. I can't wait to see how the rest of the season goes. Yeah, it's super interesting.

[01:01:40] Thanks for recommending it cause I wasn't even going to check it out. So it's very cool. It's very cool indeed. All right. Well let's do a quick wrap up for our affiliate podcasts. Alicia is been covering the show that another Hugh Howie adaptation called beacon 23.

[01:02:00] It's on the MGM plus streaming platform. Her and Luke have been are doing a bundled episode coverage of it. And she's going to have some more coverage of dune. Her and Luke are going to do some more dune coverage as we have a March 1st date for that

[01:02:15] movie. And then she is going to be on with Jean and I, we're going to do some MCU coverage. We're going to talk about spider verse. We're going to talk about the what if season two and those are going to be out in December.

[01:02:27] We don't have dates for those yet cause we're juggling travel and holiday schedules, but we're definitely going to be recording those episodes before the end of the month. So keep your ears out. Cool. Over on properly Howard, they finished up their first season of remake films.

[01:02:45] Well not their first season, but a season of covering a bunch of remake films. They're currently covering severance season one and we have a special feed set up for that because the moment that season two starts, all four of us are going to be covering that

[01:03:02] show as a collective. And we're looking forward to that. We're just waiting for a date for season two, but you can get all your season one podcasts. They're there. They drop every Friday.

[01:03:15] And I think we just had them on too for our star Wars film festival for the 1978 star wars holiday special. John, I know that's 90 minutes of your life that you probably regret. You know, I do regret it because it was the most fun podcast I've ever recorded.

[01:03:32] It was an amazing, you know, J.R. Tolkien wrote in his first letter, which I have to get back to my Shire side chats. But in my first hour side chat, I talked about his, his letter to Edith where he says we

[01:03:46] had a great conversation about a bad paper and I'm like, we had a great conversation about a terrible movie. Perfect. It's not even a movie. It's a tell it was a television variety show. It's whatever you want it to be.

[01:03:58] It's a, it's honestly, it's all on YouTube so you can just watch it now. You don't spend any money. It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen and it's hilarious and it's unintentionally funny the whole time.

[01:04:11] You've got some December stuff happening to you and Marilyn are cooking up some stuff. What do you got there? And Alicia too as well. Right? Yeah. So, uh, Marilyn and I are reading hog father by Terry Pratchett, which is kind of a Christmas novel.

[01:04:25] It's about hogs watch, which is the dis world version of Christmas. And, uh, the premise is if you haven't read it, we're gonna, we're going to talk about the TV movie too. So you could just cheat and watch the movie.

[01:04:35] Um, w if you haven't read it, it's, uh, somebody sets out to kill Santa Claus and the essence of death does Christmas in his absence. Okay. And it's, it's like a hilarious book. I'm like halfway through it right now. It's hilarious.

[01:04:53] I can't wait to talk about it with Marilyn. Definitely. Definitely check it out. I'll check out the TV movie. I'm going to put that up on my board. Sounds good. Sounds good.

[01:05:02] And, uh, Alicia and I are going to be talking with a special guest from England about the doctor who 60th anniversary specials with David Tennant returning. Okay. The second one was a lot better than the first actually. I mean, the first one was very, I watched it.

[01:05:16] It was very straight who it was very whovian. Yeah, it's, it was, that was the one that they said made, they made it very kid friendly. The second one is a lot darker and a lot. Okay, cool. It's really cool. It's really good.

[01:05:27] Uh, really looking forward to tomorrow. The day after we record this, the third one comes out. So that's the last one we'll be talking about, but that'll be out later in the month. Great. And then we've got second breakfast coming up. That's where we do our top 10.

[01:05:38] If you're a Patreon subscriber, you can go onto the Patreon site and there's a link for our first ever community server survey. We're going to, um, collect, uh, everyone's top 10, um, picks for 2023 television shows.

[01:05:54] And then we're going to process them a little bit and come up with a big community ranking. But then John, you and I are going to be doing our top tens and we're going to record that

[01:06:02] and have that podcast out on the 25th, a little present to unwrap for everyone. And that typically second breakfast is an exclusive benefit, but we make this one episode available to everyone. We put it out on the public feed.

[01:06:16] So we have a Christmas episode every year that everybody gets. That's right. Patrons get it a little early anyway, but yeah, that's right. Speaking of patrons, we should probably thank our lore master patrons. Absolutely. Would you like to do the honors? Absolutely.

[01:06:32] So we have Samartian, Cyrus, Mark H, Michael G, Michelle E, David W, Brian P, Nick W, SC, Peter O.H., Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Lavinia T, Dove 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L,

[01:06:47] Gareth C, Eric F, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa, Andra B, Kuang Yu, Laura G, DeadEyeJediBob, Alex V, Aaron T, SubZero, Aaron K, and Adrian, who will always be last. Thank you all so very much for your continued patronage.

[01:07:07] It helps keep the wheels turning over here at Lorehound Central and helps us help our co-hosts and pay for all the bits and bloops and the things that we need to do. We really appreciate you guys all so very much. Thank you very much.

[01:07:21] And to everyone who listens to us, thank you for hanging out and having a good time with us. I am looking forward to Second Breakfast and our top 10 end of year stuff. Me too. Me too. I put my list together and I'm excited to share it. Excellent.

[01:07:36] We're not telling each other. We're keeping it a secret. It's true. We really are. We're going to unravel it on the podcast. All right, John, thanks for hopping on with me. I think this—I'm really excited about Fargo and I'm glad that you're into it. Yeah, definitely.

[01:07:46] I'm looking forward to talking about a wrap-up with you. See you next time. The Lore Hounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lore Hounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com contact.

[01:08:00] Get early and ad-free access to all Lore Hounds podcasts at patreon.com slash thelorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.

[01:08:13] Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side, green or black. John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to pick sides and fight and stuff.

[01:08:39] Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod, but we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like this show. The politics, the drama, the lore. It was made for the Lore Hounds.

[01:08:50] And since we just finished recapping season one, we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons. And with the season pass option in Supercast, listeners can get early ad-free access to

[01:09:02] each weekly scene by scene deep dive plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in The Lore Hounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot, but probably positive, takes.

[01:09:14] The Lore Hounds House of the Dragon coverage is also safe for team green consumption. Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a heartened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book Fire and Blood by George R.R. Martin.

[01:09:23] Dragon seeds may experience burning.