Oneshot - Furiosa: A Mad Max Saga (2024)

[00:00:00] Witness us!

[00:00:18] The Lorehounds One Shot podcast begins now.

[00:00:20] I'm David.

[00:00:21] I'm Alisha.

[00:00:22] And I'm Aaron, and this is the Lorehounds coverage of Furiosa, a Mad Max saga.

[00:00:27] We've got our chrome spray ready.

[00:00:29] So call out the war boys because we're about to caravan across the vivid wasteland of George

[00:00:33] Miller's latest epic saga of the gaspocalypse.

[00:00:37] We'll start with our spoiler free hot takes for those of you not yet ready to pledge yourself

[00:00:41] to a Morton Joe.

[00:00:42] We'll give you a spoiler warning when it's time.

[00:00:44] But this isn't the only campfire legend we're passing on this summer.

[00:00:49] It's officially the HOT FOR SUMMER!

[00:00:52] And we've got all the citadels of summer fandom covered.

[00:00:56] At the end of the podcast, we'll go over our upcoming schedule and as well as what all

[00:01:01] of our affiliate podcasts are up to, including a full coverage of The Acolyte, House of the

[00:01:07] Dragon, The Boys, Doctor Who, plus one shots of The Bear, interview with the vampire, Alien

[00:01:14] Romulus, not to mention Rings of Power and Pachinko Seasons 2 for both of those coming

[00:01:19] out soon.

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[00:02:19] Alicia, good to see you.

[00:02:21] Aaron from Radioactive Ramblings, welcome.

[00:02:24] I think this is our first official one-shot with you.

[00:02:27] I think so, yeah.

[00:02:29] I think the only other official Lorehounds pod I've been on is the Hot Lore Summer pod,

[00:02:33] so I'm excited to be here.

[00:02:34] Thanks for having me.

[00:02:35] Absolutely.

[00:02:36] Hot Lore Summer?

[00:02:37] Hot Lore Summer.

[00:02:38] I don't want to...

[00:02:39] John loves the soundboard.

[00:02:40] I do too, but I'm going to try to...

[00:02:41] You're not as much as John.

[00:02:43] I'm not going to try to...

[00:02:44] Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:45] Over nitrous oxide.

[00:02:46] Too much nitrous oxide in the engine is bad for it, so...

[00:02:49] The Nos, man.

[00:02:51] You're bringing me back to my recent Fast and the Fury binge.

[00:02:54] That's right.

[00:02:55] Alicia, how are you doing?

[00:02:57] Yeah, I'm doing okay.

[00:03:00] It's been a busy podcasting Sunday.

[00:03:03] This is my second recording, and then there's going to be a whole bunch of editing.

[00:03:09] As always.

[00:03:10] Well, I got you on this one, because I know you've got other things going on.

[00:03:12] How's the Star Wars Canon timeline podcast going?

[00:03:16] Yeah, good.

[00:03:17] We just finished the first pre-Acolyte blips, so looking forward to doing the weekly breakdowns

[00:03:22] with John now and not putting out two of those a week.

[00:03:25] Very cool.

[00:03:26] And Aaron, you're gearing up for The Boys, season four.

[00:03:31] Yes.

[00:03:32] Very cool.

[00:03:33] Gearing up for The Boys.

[00:03:34] It's going to be a big one.

[00:03:35] I think they're dropping the first three episodes, so that'll be a busy week for us over at Radioactive

[00:03:40] Ramblings.

[00:03:41] And you're going to do that with Chase?

[00:03:43] Yeah, so it'll be me, Chase, and potentially my other co-host Richard on a few of the episodes.

[00:03:49] But we'll see how the scheduling actually shakes out for that.

[00:03:56] That's good.

[00:03:57] Chase cracks me up.

[00:03:58] He seems very nice and sort of cordial in some ways, and then he'll just drop an F-bomb

[00:04:05] or throw some mud in your face, and it cracks me up every time.

[00:04:10] He's like that.

[00:04:11] He's totally me like no other.

[00:04:12] Cool.

[00:04:13] Well, we're here to talk about Furiosa.

[00:04:18] So before we get into our general takes, and then we'll take a break in a little bit before

[00:04:25] we get into the full spoilers, we have a huge outline.

[00:04:28] We've all been making a ton of notes in here.

[00:04:31] And this is a big franchise, right?

[00:04:35] It's got a lot of movies in it.

[00:04:36] So let's do a little bit of setup for the movie, a little production detail and background

[00:04:42] and then we'll start talking about our general takes, our general hot takes.

[00:04:44] So a synopsis.

[00:04:47] As the world fell, young Furiosa is snatched from the green place of many mothers and falls

[00:04:53] into the hands of a great biker horde led by warlord Dementus.

[00:04:59] Sweeping through the wastelands, they come across the Citadel presided over by the Immortan

[00:05:05] Joe.

[00:05:06] While the two tyrants war for dominance, Furiosa must survive many trials as she's put to

[00:05:11] bits together the means for her to find her way home.

[00:05:16] So this is the fifth installment of the Mad Max franchise, all directed by George Miller,

[00:05:21] which I think is a singular accomplishment.

[00:05:23] I mean, he's had some co-directors here and there, but this is really his vision and his

[00:05:27] creativity.

[00:05:28] So we start out with Mad Max in 1979.

[00:05:32] Then what we've got rebranded or retitled Mad Max 2, The Road Warrior in 1981.

[00:05:38] I think in 81 it was just called The Road Warrior when we first got it.

[00:05:41] Then we have Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, famously with Tina Turner in 1985.

[00:05:48] And then we have a 30-year gap until we get Furiosa, a Mad Max saga in 2024.

[00:05:55] And oh, I'm sorry.

[00:05:56] Yeah, Mad Max Fury Road.

[00:05:57] That's right.

[00:05:58] So I got these confused in 2015.

[00:05:59] My apologies, I got jumbled on my outline here.

[00:06:03] And then this is Furiosa, a Mad Max saga.

[00:06:08] There is talk of Mad Max The Wastelands as maybe a next project.

[00:06:13] I think there might have been a general agreement of a three-package deal in success.

[00:06:20] So as the movies, however they do, we'll see.

[00:06:25] I know there's some questions about the box office on this one, but that's, I think, a

[00:06:30] separate issue around movies in general.

[00:06:33] So we'll see if we get any more future installments from George out of this.

[00:06:38] A couple of other production details.

[00:06:40] This was written by George Miller and Nick LaThouris, I believe is how to pronounce his

[00:06:46] last name.

[00:06:47] I'm not sure.

[00:06:48] And then it was directed by George Miller, and it's starring Anya Taylor-Joy, Chris Hemsworth,

[00:06:53] and Tom Burke.

[00:06:54] It had a budget of $168 million, and the opening weekend box office was a depressingly low

[00:07:02] $68 million.

[00:07:05] It's only depressingly low because it's a big budget movie.

[00:07:08] It's a good box office otherwise.

[00:07:10] Yeah, it's a decent box office.

[00:07:13] We could talk a lot about what's going on with movies and weekends.

[00:07:17] I can certainly say for, I wanted to see it opening weekend, but I just couldn't cut two

[00:07:22] and a half hours of a holiday weekend from family time to actually go see it.

[00:07:28] If it had been an hour and a half, I would have been there for sure.

[00:07:32] Because you factor in, it's a three-hour commitment.

[00:07:34] That's a huge chunk of time.

[00:07:36] Anyway, separate issue.

[00:07:37] Over on Rotten Tomatoes, it's got a 90 over 90 critic to fan approval rating, so that's

[00:07:43] really strong.

[00:07:44] And Metacritic has a 79 score for the critics and a 7.2 for the fan rating.

[00:07:51] So pretty solid overall.

[00:07:52] I've seen a lot of folks who have a lot to say good about it with a lot of dot, dot,

[00:07:59] dots and buts.

[00:08:01] But not for this, it would have been epic.

[00:08:04] But let's start with our personal takes and a little bit of history.

[00:08:09] Throw in how you came to the franchise.

[00:08:11] Aaron, since you are joining us for your first time, why don't you rev up your engine and

[00:08:16] get this war party started?

[00:08:18] Yeah, so my personal history with Mad Max.

[00:08:22] The first time I had ever seen a Mad Max movie was Beyond the Thunderdome.

[00:08:25] I think it was on cable on some channel and I really enjoyed that.

[00:08:30] Fury Road obviously came out in 2015, and there's actually a Mad Max game that also

[00:08:35] came out in 2015, which is supposed to be sort of in the timeline between Furiosa and

[00:08:41] Fury Road.

[00:08:42] Something we didn't talk about was that in the franchise history, there's comic books

[00:08:47] and video games and a whole bunch of other secondary products in the marketplace.

[00:08:51] Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the game isn't considered canon anymore.

[00:08:56] It wasn't ever possibly, but it's got a lot of cool tie ins between both of these recent

[00:09:02] Mad Max movies.

[00:09:03] So there's a lot of cool details and recurring characters there.

[00:09:06] OK, cool.

[00:09:08] So cable, cable rerun was your first exposure.

[00:09:12] It was nice.

[00:09:13] Alicia, how about you?

[00:09:14] Right.

[00:09:15] Yeah.

[00:09:16] I mean, I guess I it was a movie I always knew about the franchise and I vaguely had

[00:09:22] the idea like my dad was kind of a fan.

[00:09:23] I think I remember I would have wasn't he wasn't a fan enough that we watched it at

[00:09:28] home like we watched Star Wars at home and Dune at home and all this other stuff.

[00:09:33] And so it came on.

[00:09:34] You got a pause.

[00:09:35] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:09:36] I don't know that I experienced it.

[00:09:39] I think the first time I experienced it was when I was in my 20s and out of the house

[00:09:43] because I remember talking to my dad like, oh, I finally watched the Mad Max trilogy.

[00:09:49] It's so and then I recently I re-binged all of them, rewatched Fury Road before I went

[00:09:54] to see Furiosa.

[00:09:55] And also I got a plug later for Doomsday, personal pet love film.

[00:10:03] But yeah, so I just like got to rewatch it all.

[00:10:07] Very cool.

[00:10:08] I've got a long history with the Mad Max franchise.

[00:10:11] Road Warrior was the first movie we saw and I believe my friend Jimmy had it.

[00:10:20] His family structure were a bit more permissive with the VCR and rentals and that kind of

[00:10:25] stuff.

[00:10:25] So we saw it on tape.

[00:10:29] Completely blew our minds.

[00:10:31] We loved every aspect of the show.

[00:10:34] We loved the violence.

[00:10:35] We loved the gore.

[00:10:36] We loved the wacky mohawk, screaming nature of it.

[00:10:41] The feral child, absolutely everything.

[00:10:44] It dominated our mythology as young kids in middle school age.

[00:10:51] And then when we found out that there was a prequel, that was amazing.

[00:10:55] And so we rented that and we would watch them back to back.

[00:10:59] And Mad Max is what it is as a movie of its time.

[00:11:05] But I remember when we discovered that there was a prequel, it felt very underground.

[00:11:10] Like we were getting a bootleg tape of something.

[00:11:12] Like we had access to, you know, we were seeing inside of a world that was like,

[00:11:17] oh my God, did you realize that they made a, you know, there was a previous movie?

[00:11:20] No way.

[00:11:22] So that was all very cool.

[00:11:24] We at that age, we too, we were just getting into tabletop games and tabletop role-playing

[00:11:29] games.

[00:11:29] And so Car Wars by Steve Jackson Games was a huge thing that we played a lot of times

[00:11:36] if we weren't sitting down for a session of Gamma World or Top Secret.

[00:11:40] Or, you know, I think we had moved on from Dungeons & Dragons by that time.

[00:11:44] But Car Wars and Boat Wars were huge in our mythology.

[00:11:49] And we had the Mad Max mythos to fuel it all.

[00:11:52] And then I think when Thunderdome came out, you know, it just felt like a kind of cynical

[00:12:00] cash grab to us at that stage.

[00:12:01] It didn't make a lot of sense from a mythology standpoint for us.

[00:12:06] And it seemed-

[00:12:07] No, I love Thunderdome.

[00:12:08] I'm just reflecting as a kid in 1985.

[00:12:12] No, I get it.

[00:12:13] I get it.

[00:12:13] Yeah.

[00:12:14] And I watched it last night.

[00:12:15] So we can talk about it later.

[00:12:18] And then Fury Road comes out, and that feels like a return to form, but then just completely

[00:12:23] amped up.

[00:12:23] And I'm a little mixed on Fury Road.

[00:12:25] There's a lot that I love.

[00:12:26] But then there's also some stuff that on rewatches, I'm like, I'm not sure if I love this or not.

[00:12:33] But anyway, so I've got a long, deep history with the franchise.

[00:12:35] It's played a pretty important part in my formation as a kid in middle school.

[00:12:42] Aaron, why don't you give us some of your hot takes, spoiler free?

[00:12:47] Sure.

[00:12:47] So I guess I'll start off with my hottest take of all.

[00:12:51] This movie wasn't missing a single thing by not having Max in it.

[00:12:55] Oh, yeah.

[00:12:56] Yeah.

[00:12:56] I think that now it's time that we can maybe tell some more stories in this world without him

[00:13:02] and just get a little bit more of the universe, you know?

[00:13:05] Right.

[00:13:06] What are your guys' thoughts on that?

[00:13:07] Did you feel like it was missing something with-

[00:13:09] I thought that this was a million times better in terms of lore and things than Fury Road.

[00:13:17] Fury Road, my hot take is that I don't love Fury Road.

[00:13:21] I think it's visual spectacle and a stunt achievement.

[00:13:28] And I appreciate it on that level.

[00:13:30] But nothing happens.

[00:13:33] They just literally go somewhere and go back again.

[00:13:35] And you know, it just seems so shallow and superficial.

[00:13:38] And this movie actually explored the mythology, you know,

[00:13:42] actually created this new world of this new film series,

[00:13:47] which seems distinct from the original somewhat timeline-wise at least.

[00:13:52] Absolutely.

[00:13:52] I agree.

[00:13:53] I guess another one of my hot takes is that I loved that this movie,

[00:13:58] just like other Mad Max movies, is not afraid to include these utterly ridiculous set pieces.

[00:14:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:04] It's so goofy and ridiculous in the best way possible.

[00:14:08] Yeah, that's true.

[00:14:10] And that's a through line in the entire, even going back to the original Mad Max,

[00:14:16] even with the toe cutter and the Knight Rider and all that stuff.

[00:14:19] It's just over-the-top gonzo.

[00:14:23] Right.

[00:14:24] And that is part of it that's just deep within the DNA of this franchise.

[00:14:29] Yeah, that's what people love, right?

[00:14:31] Yeah.

[00:14:31] But that's why the original Mad Max is my least favorite actually.

[00:14:36] Yeah, the original Mad Max is, yeah, it's an interesting story

[00:14:43] in its creation and in development and it's on screen.

[00:14:46] Right.

[00:14:47] It is definitely a creature of its time.

[00:14:49] Yeah.

[00:14:50] But it's more like a prototype of what comes after.

[00:14:53] Yes.

[00:14:53] Yeah, yeah.

[00:14:54] And said very early, because his intentions of making that first movie

[00:14:58] were very different and they pivoted, but they didn't completely pivot.

[00:15:02] And so until they get to the Road Warrior stuff, does it get to the gonzo craziness?

[00:15:08] And I think that's why for us when we were kids, when we discovered

[00:15:12] there was this origin story to Max that was a little bit more sane and a little bit normal.

[00:15:16] Right.

[00:15:17] At least for us at that time, it had a kind of logic and it made sense

[00:15:21] why this subsequent world in Road Warrior is even more crazy.

[00:15:26] We could see the beginnings of it in its early stages.

[00:15:29] Yeah.

[00:15:30] Whenever it comes to post-apocalyptic stuff, I always enjoy seeing the fall of civilization itself.

[00:15:37] So the first Mad Max movie scratches that itch for me.

[00:15:40] Right.

[00:15:41] This movie also had a lot of religious symbolism in it,

[00:15:44] especially with the costume design, everything had meaning behind it.

[00:15:48] It was very cool.

[00:15:49] I enjoyed it a lot.

[00:15:50] Yeah.

[00:15:50] Ladened with symbolism.

[00:15:52] Yes.

[00:15:53] You can tell they spend a lot of time in world building in these movies,

[00:15:58] especially in the most recent two.

[00:15:59] But I just want to see, for me, I love luxuriating in the world building.

[00:16:05] So give me all the details.

[00:16:07] I'm still obsessed with my favorite part of Fury Road is when they drive past those people

[00:16:12] on the stilts in the swamp and I'm still waiting for the story of those swamp people.

[00:16:16] Right.

[00:16:17] Wait, what is that?

[00:16:19] Tell me about that.

[00:16:21] And I think that's one of the things that I appreciate about George Miller's world building

[00:16:28] is that, from what I understand, this script was born out of the backstory that they created

[00:16:35] for Furiosa just so they understood who this character was.

[00:16:39] They created this whole world of who is Furiosa?

[00:16:42] Where did she come from?

[00:16:44] And then they were like, oh, hey, we've got a movie here.

[00:16:47] We've got a script in this backstory.

[00:16:50] Let's do something with it.

[00:16:51] So I love that he really is exploring.

[00:16:53] And I like the post-apocalyptic start as not, oh, there was a nuclear war.

[00:17:01] Like the nuclear war came later in the sequence of events and it really started with

[00:17:06] conflict over oil as a natural resource.

[00:17:11] So it's thought and he's built into the world and the mind this...

[00:17:18] It's not just, oh, apocalypse, nuclear war.

[00:17:22] It's not simple.

[00:17:23] It's actually got some dimension to it.

[00:17:24] Right, right.

[00:17:26] Yeah, that's kind of why I like...

[00:17:28] One of the things I like about Road Warrior over the original Mad Max 2 is that you get

[00:17:34] that scene setting.

[00:17:36] You get a bit of information about what we're all doing.

[00:17:38] Yes, right.

[00:17:39] That's right.

[00:17:39] We were actually scheduled to record this podcast the other day, but then we got delayed for

[00:17:44] various reasons.

[00:17:45] And I kind of am glad that we got that because then I was able to...

[00:17:50] I was like, oh, whatever the day was going on.

[00:17:54] And I was like, well, I've got some time on my hands.

[00:17:56] Let me just watch Road Warrior real quick.

[00:17:58] And then I was like, okay, well, let me watch Thunderdome tonight.

[00:18:00] You know, nothing else to pressing to watch.

[00:18:02] And so I was able to get to both.

[00:18:04] And I had forgotten about in the Road Warrior how they have that whole setup where they

[00:18:10] play a bunch of old film newsies reels and talk about how the world gets set up.

[00:18:19] Yeah, because they based the original, the foundation of it in a real historical

[00:18:25] gas shortage in the 70s.

[00:18:27] And then just said, what if that didn't get fixed for that, you know, went worse.

[00:18:32] Yeah, I have dim memories of that as a child.

[00:18:36] When long gas lines and yeah, just the whole...

[00:18:41] It just let it fed into a whole thing about around the 70s and what was going on.

[00:18:47] Oh yeah, well, there's crazy with the crazy inflation going on too, right?

[00:18:51] Inflation and stuff with Iran and Jimmy Carter and put on a sweater.

[00:18:56] And Vietnam of course, yeah.

[00:18:57] Vietnam, yeah, we're still resolving out of that.

[00:19:02] A lot of labor relations stuff, the rise of corporate control.

[00:19:05] Which is something I just did a recorded a podcast with Ron Dawson, one of our other

[00:19:09] co-hosts and we're talking about the it's the 45th anniversary of the Alien movie.

[00:19:17] And one of the things that I found really interesting is on reflection is why that

[00:19:21] movie is so potent.

[00:19:22] And I think it's similar to this movie in some ways is that the structures of society

[00:19:28] are being addressed in a way.

[00:19:30] In Alien, it goes into labor relationships and corporate control that's remote and removed

[00:19:36] and you have white collar and blue collar and everybody's sort of suffering under the

[00:19:40] thumb of this corporate control.

[00:19:44] Which I think in the 70s is something that we're really dealing with.

[00:19:46] And then this movie, this series of movies is energy and resource consumption, right?

[00:19:51] And the shortages and scarcity and what happens, how thin is society's

[00:19:57] veneer before we descend into kind of madness.

[00:20:00] So I think one of the things that gives a franchise or a film and a franchise lasting

[00:20:05] power is that it's drawing a line or highlighting or addressing real sociological issues.

[00:20:12] Well, so this is my question about the state of the franchise with this.

[00:20:16] It's famously, you know, I understand for listeners at home, I understand these are

[00:20:20] campfire stories.

[00:20:21] This is not to be taken literally every detail.

[00:20:26] They're legends.

[00:20:27] So we have the second film, Fury Road, sorry, Road Warrior.

[00:20:35] Road Warrior gives us like this, okay, so the gas situation is such and then it went

[00:20:39] badly and this is what happened.

[00:20:41] And then when we get to Thunderdome, then in Thunderdome, they say, well, after that,

[00:20:46] it actually escalated to nuclear war.

[00:20:48] So now that's why we've destroyed the planet with a nuclear war now.

[00:20:53] But all that was happening back in like the 70s and 80s, 90s.

[00:20:58] So now in the new timeline, is that still the origin story or is there a different one?

[00:21:04] Have they said?

[00:21:06] I don't know.

[00:21:07] I haven't done that level of research to understand how the timeline is flowing out

[00:21:12] or what George has said specifically about that.

[00:21:15] I think there is some information about that.

[00:21:17] But the way that I've been relating to this on a, just for personally, and I don't know

[00:21:22] if this works for other people.

[00:21:23] It's kind of like the James Bond franchise.

[00:21:26] It doesn't matter.

[00:21:29] The characters are ageless.

[00:21:30] The missions don't necessarily relate to each other.

[00:21:32] I mean, I think with the Daniel Craig movies, they tried to create a more continuity in

[00:21:38] this, in the storyline.

[00:21:40] So result, you know, this movie is a result, you know, is because this happened.

[00:21:47] It had decent continuity.

[00:21:48] It had other problems, but.

[00:21:51] But you know, if you go back to the Sean Connery and Roger Moore years, it didn't matter.

[00:21:56] It was just, you know, bottle things.

[00:21:58] And I, to me that works for the Mad Max franchise.

[00:22:01] Like let's just tell stories in this world.

[00:22:04] And whether he's got the V8 interceptor or not, I don't really care.

[00:22:08] Yeah.

[00:22:09] Tell me a cool story.

[00:22:10] Yeah.

[00:22:11] Bad Alicia Brain turn off.

[00:22:12] Yeah.

[00:22:13] Well, I think it's, but we have to be careful because there are so many franchises that do

[00:22:17] want to give us a narrative cohesive narrative structure.

[00:22:21] Well, it is just, it's something that my brain craves and that's why I enjoy.

[00:22:26] That's why you do the Star Wars time.

[00:22:28] Yes, because I'm obsessing about those details.

[00:22:32] Yeah.

[00:22:33] And so that's why for me, the Mad Max franchise will always be one that I enjoy because it's

[00:22:38] bonkers and I like bonkers things, but it's always going to like itch at my brain somewhere.

[00:22:43] Right.

[00:22:43] How does this fit?

[00:22:44] How do these pieces fit?

[00:22:45] Yeah.

[00:22:46] Aaron, anything else that you want to touch on with hot takes?

[00:22:49] Yeah.

[00:22:50] I was just going to say, I'm a real stickler for the timeline as well.

[00:22:54] I need to know where everything fits in.

[00:22:55] So in my own head, Kevin, and I'm trying to make sense of everything in my head.

[00:23:01] Everything is taking place in the original timeline, like the eighties and nineties and

[00:23:05] stuff, which is where I try to fit it in.

[00:23:08] Because you're also digging into the Fallout timeline lore along with the games and everything

[00:23:13] like that.

[00:23:13] And I'm guessing that that's got a more cohesive structure from the original, from the start,

[00:23:19] like they've created a timeline.

[00:23:21] Yeah.

[00:23:22] They had a fairly solid timeline from the beginning in that franchise.

[00:23:26] Right.

[00:23:26] Yeah.

[00:23:27] Where this franchise was just like, hey, I got this idea because I'm a doctor and I want

[00:23:32] to make a movie about road carnage and then it turns into something else.

[00:23:35] And then the studios are like, throw money at it.

[00:23:38] And then the studios are like, throw more money at it.

[00:23:40] Yeah.

[00:23:41] And then as I understand it, George had, I don't know how the rights went to, I believe

[00:23:47] it to Warner Brothers, but then he won the rights back in a lawsuit.

[00:23:52] And so now he owns the franchise himself.

[00:23:58] And so that is a very unique situation.

[00:24:01] And so that's one of the reasons why we have a 30-year gap in between Thunderdome and Fury

[00:24:08] Road.

[00:24:09] And I believe it was Jodie Foster who made some complaints and it was kind of a defamation

[00:24:19] thing.

[00:24:19] And so he sued the studio or said, I'm going to sue you guys.

[00:24:24] And then so they negotiated out.

[00:24:25] And one of the things that he was able to negotiate back was his rights to the movie,

[00:24:30] to the franchise.

[00:24:31] And again, I haven't read all that.

[00:24:33] I've just heard that sort of secondhand.

[00:24:37] But that's a pretty unique position to be in, to own your own franchise in this day and age.

[00:24:43] So we'll see what he does.

[00:24:46] I hope he gets to make another film.

[00:24:50] I don't know if it's going to be...

[00:24:52] It's just such a shame that the narrative around these opening weekends really dictates

[00:24:58] the perception because this is not a bad opening weekend by any measure.

[00:25:03] It was number one.

[00:25:04] It's just not what it used to be.

[00:25:08] But I have to say, it's not so different from Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes.

[00:25:12] But then people were like, oh, but Kingdom opened really great.

[00:25:15] And it's just how it's perceived.

[00:25:17] Right, right.

[00:25:18] But of course, yeah, if I have to choose which franchise gets more movies, I'm choosing Kingdom.

[00:25:24] Okay.

[00:25:26] Fair enough.

[00:25:27] All right, so I guess for me, overall, I thought the movie was...

[00:25:33] And this, I think, goes into the box office question too, is that it was good, not great for me.

[00:25:39] And it's been interesting listening to all the different reactions.

[00:25:43] I listened to a number of mainline podcasts, Slate and NPR's things.

[00:25:49] I listened to the Ringer coverage, both on The Big Pick and The Midnight Boys.

[00:25:56] And it's been interesting to hear, and then of course in our own community, in our own Discord,

[00:26:01] hearing different people's takes on this.

[00:26:04] And whenever there's a divergence of opinion, I always find that interesting.

[00:26:08] Where there's a percentage, maybe a majority, that is like, oh yeah, we loved it.

[00:26:13] And then there's a significant minority that didn't or had problems with it.

[00:26:18] There's no universal, it was great or it was terrible.

[00:26:20] So I don't feel bad saying that it was good, not great.

[00:26:27] And a common refrain, and I'm just like everybody else, it was too long.

[00:26:31] And by the time there are certain things happened,

[00:26:36] I was kind of exhausted because it's such a high-intensity movie.

[00:26:41] But I do really appreciate the change in form and the change in tone.

[00:26:47] And the level, like you said, Alicia, there's more story to this story.

[00:26:53] And there's actual story as opposed to just chase.

[00:26:59] And so that was kind of fun to see the world expand in that way.

[00:27:02] I really liked that.

[00:27:05] Can I ask you?

[00:27:07] Someone said that they think that it should have been a mini-series on TV

[00:27:11] with each chapter as an episode.

[00:27:14] Would you guys have preferred that?

[00:27:17] I don't know.

[00:27:18] Aaron, what do you think?

[00:27:19] Do you have a take on that?

[00:27:20] I'm still processing.

[00:27:22] I think they could have just made the movie a little bit shorter.

[00:27:25] I don't know if I really needed it.

[00:27:27] I don't know if I need an episode.

[00:27:29] You don't want that story over five weeks or whatever it was.

[00:27:33] Yeah, I don't think it could have held my attention for five weeks.

[00:27:35] Maybe if they dropped it as a binge,

[00:27:37] it would have been something I could sit and watch all in one day.

[00:27:40] But I think they could have just made the movie a little bit shorter.

[00:27:45] It's like eating cotton candy, like neon-colored cotton candy.

[00:27:50] And if you eat too much or you take too long to eat it,

[00:27:52] you're kind of like, oh my lord.

[00:27:55] Because it is so stimulating.

[00:27:56] And if you see it in a big theater or whatever, it's a lot.

[00:28:01] And then I've got some issues that we're going to talk about later

[00:28:04] with the cinematography and with some of the action.

[00:28:08] So Van Lathan on the Midnight Boys podcast said this,

[00:28:15] and I think it was Sub-Zero on our Discord who reposted it,

[00:28:18] which reminded me of it, which is,

[00:28:21] this movie—and I totally agree with this summation—

[00:28:24] this movie, the parts are greater than the sum.

[00:28:28] I loved almost every set piece and every bit,

[00:28:31] but then bringing it all together, it exhausted me.

[00:28:35] And so when certain things happened that could have really knocked my socks off,

[00:28:41] by that time I was just like, oh, I was like, please, can I go home now?

[00:28:47] And like you, Alicia, I think I'm excited for him to see more.

[00:28:50] And I want to see him play with the form like he did with this

[00:28:54] and do something a little bit different, right?

[00:28:56] Take it a little bit further.

[00:28:57] And the next movie should just be called Swamp Stilts.

[00:29:01] Very cool.

[00:29:03] So with our one-shot movie outlines,

[00:29:05] one of the things that we're doing is putting in some different features

[00:29:10] that will kind of jump from episode to episode.

[00:29:13] So one of the things I like to—I'm always curious about—

[00:29:16] is people's theater experience.

[00:29:18] And the first question I have is big screen, small screen.

[00:29:22] Would you recommend folks go out and see this in the big screen

[00:29:26] or should they wait for VOD, for payment on VOD?

[00:29:33] As they say, as the kids say.

[00:29:34] I mean, I think, yeah, this is a big screen movie.

[00:29:38] This is a big screen franchise, especially the new ones.

[00:29:41] Yeah.

[00:29:42] So you would say go out and see it on the big screen?

[00:29:45] Yeah.

[00:29:45] I saw it on Dolby and that was good.

[00:29:49] Oh, it was a little loud actually.

[00:29:50] It was one of my—it was like my third Dolby experience since my ear injury.

[00:29:55] And this one I did have to cover my ears a few times.

[00:29:58] Especially with the whistle.

[00:29:59] How was your movie theater experience?

[00:30:00] Was it packed house?

[00:30:02] No, it wasn't.

[00:30:03] Although it was a Sunday afternoon, which is, you know, like—

[00:30:07] But I was surprised how not packed it was.

[00:30:10] It was also like—

[00:30:12] Did you see it opening weekend?

[00:30:13] No, I didn't see it opening—I saw it, I think the—

[00:30:17] Well, yeah, I did see it opening weekend.

[00:30:18] Yeah, you must have.

[00:30:19] Yeah.

[00:30:20] Okay.

[00:30:21] What about you, Erin?

[00:30:22] How was your movie going experience?

[00:30:25] Anything of note from where you saw it or how you saw it?

[00:30:30] Yeah, so I would probably—if I had to do it over again, I would wait for the small screen.

[00:30:36] Oh, really?

[00:30:37] I did.

[00:30:38] Also saw it in Dolby.

[00:30:39] So the sound quality was—it was really fun to hear the engines roaring and all of that

[00:30:44] when I was in the theater.

[00:30:46] I did see it at 1030 in the morning.

[00:30:48] So it was—the theater had maybe two other people in it, which is very rare where I am.

[00:30:53] I go to the AMC in Georgetown.

[00:30:57] So it's always packed most of the time.

[00:30:59] And yeah, it was a lot quieter than I'm used to.

[00:31:02] But it was a fun overall theater experience.

[00:31:05] Right.

[00:31:06] I saw it later this week with a buddy of mine.

[00:31:09] I think it was—we saw it Thursday night.

[00:31:11] And it was on the big screen of our local theater, which is like our town's main amphitheater stage

[00:31:17] performance space.

[00:31:18] It's got Zodiac symbols painted on the ceiling and statues of Greek—Greco-Roman statues in

[00:31:26] the corners and things, and people pouring water from vases and stuff.

[00:31:31] So it's a fun space to see it.

[00:31:32] And I think there's about seven other people there, and me and my buddy, which is also amazing.

[00:31:37] Shout out to Joe that we could actually coordinate two busy dads.

[00:31:42] We were able to coordinate our schedule this one night of the week to actually go see a

[00:31:45] movie together.

[00:31:47] But I think I mentioned before, three hours is a huge chunk of time to cut out from your

[00:31:52] day.

[00:31:53] And I think that's also, again, the chief complaint.

[00:31:57] The movie was a bit too long.

[00:31:59] I am 50-50 on big screen, small screen.

[00:32:02] If you've got a really good setup and you've got some good surround sound, when you've got

[00:32:07] a nice screen at home, I could say, oh yeah, I could see the case for staying home for

[00:32:13] that one.

[00:32:14] But if you're nearby a big Laser or Dolby, IMAX, 70 million, whatever the top qualities

[00:32:21] are, with good sound, definitely I could recommend a matinee showing.

[00:32:27] You know, maybe with a discounted pricing a little bit or something like that.

[00:32:31] Because it really is a visual feast and it is also a feast for your ears.

[00:32:36] And to our theater, it's got a big screen and it's pretty good.

[00:32:39] The sound is just okay.

[00:32:41] It's not full surround.

[00:32:43] And I was really missing that feeling the engine rumbling in my seats kind of stuff.

[00:32:49] I really did miss having that immersive experience.

[00:32:52] So if we had had a theater that was higher quality, I might have even delayed even a

[00:32:57] little bit further to see it.

[00:32:59] So right.

[00:33:01] Analytics.

[00:33:02] So we also like to...

[00:33:03] Oh, I forgot one other question for a theater going experience.

[00:33:05] Any trailers of note?

[00:33:07] I had no trailer.

[00:33:08] We had no trailers on.

[00:33:09] Oh, really?

[00:33:10] Yeah.

[00:33:11] We often don't.

[00:33:11] Or sometimes we get one or two or none.

[00:33:15] Like oftentimes there are no trailers at our theater, which is really weird.

[00:33:19] You got to be there all the time.

[00:33:20] You can't screw around.

[00:33:23] I don't remember.

[00:33:24] I mean, I remember there's...

[00:33:26] Every time I go to the theaters, like an average of once a week.

[00:33:29] And every time for the past three months, there's a Bad Boys trailer.

[00:33:34] And now I'm like, I do not want to see this movie.

[00:33:37] I don't want to know this movie exists.

[00:33:41] I just so sick of that trailer.

[00:33:42] So I remember that.

[00:33:43] I remember there was a Deadpool and Wolverine, but I don't...

[00:33:45] There was some more.

[00:33:46] I don't remember what they were.

[00:33:47] I was with someone.

[00:33:49] It was a shout out to Alyssa.

[00:33:51] But so we got there.

[00:33:52] We got a voicemail from her.

[00:33:53] Yeah.

[00:33:54] So we got there early, but I don't remember what the trailers were anymore.

[00:33:59] Do you remember Aaron?

[00:34:01] I got to the theater a little bit late.

[00:34:03] So all I got to see was the Deadpool and Wolverine trailer.

[00:34:06] And then Nicole Kidman started doing her speech and the movie started.

[00:34:10] I've never gotten to see that, but I've heard so many cultural references to it.

[00:34:14] Yes.

[00:34:14] That's funny.

[00:34:15] And last question on theater going experience.

[00:34:18] Are you going to be watching this again on streaming soon?

[00:34:21] Like when it first comes out on streaming?

[00:34:24] No.

[00:34:26] If someone I'm hanging out with wants to watch it, I might watch it a little bit sooner, but

[00:34:31] on my own, I probably won't be watching it again for a little while.

[00:34:34] Got it.

[00:34:35] Okay, cool.

[00:34:35] But it is of the five movies.

[00:34:39] There's three of them that I am more keen on rewatching and this is one of them.

[00:34:44] So basically like the original and Fury Road, I'm like, I'm fine if I never see them again.

[00:34:50] Yeah, I wish I had gotten Fury Road in before we had recorded this to complete my thing.

[00:34:56] So I'm not sure when Furiosa comes out on streaming.

[00:35:04] Yeah, I don't know that I'm going to put it in a priority rewatch.

[00:35:07] It's not something I'm going to rush to see.

[00:35:09] It's going to be rewatched at some point.

[00:35:11] I just don't, you know, not urgently.

[00:35:14] Yeah.

[00:35:15] All right.

[00:35:15] So the last thing we'll do before we take our break and then get into the full spoiler

[00:35:19] discussion is we have a few analytic frameworks that we like to kick around here.

[00:35:25] We've got the Shippy test, which measures against original material versus adaptation

[00:35:31] onto screen.

[00:35:32] We've got the Sanderson slider, which again is inspiration versus adaptation.

[00:35:36] But then we have the, and I don't think either of those apply in this case.

[00:35:39] No.

[00:35:40] We have the Pukila scale for violence.

[00:35:43] That's a relative measure of violence from season one of Rings of Power.

[00:35:48] Would our favorite Tolkien scholar, Marilyn Pukila, would she watch this or not?

[00:35:54] Like is the violence too much or too little?

[00:35:56] You know, or something like that.

[00:35:58] Isn't Rings of Power plus one or is Rings of Power zero?

[00:36:00] I think it was Rings of Power zero.

[00:36:02] Okay.

[00:36:03] Yeah.

[00:36:03] That's my assumption.

[00:36:04] Erin, is that, that's right, right?

[00:36:06] You made the cool visual graphic for it.

[00:36:09] On the graph, the Rings of Power is at a zero.

[00:36:11] Yeah.

[00:36:11] Okay.

[00:36:12] Then I would, you guys both have a plus three for this, but I would put it as, I think,

[00:36:17] cause that's the thing.

[00:36:17] Cause then she said that Marilyn, who the scale's named after, she said at one point that

[00:36:26] what's it called?

[00:36:26] Clockwork Orange was a plus five.

[00:36:28] So now I don't think Clockwork Orange is that actual, they talk about violence more than

[00:36:34] you actually see violence.

[00:36:35] So I've been rating, so I would rate this above Clockwork Orange.

[00:36:40] Really?

[00:36:41] Wow.

[00:36:41] I mean, I think this is more violent than Clockwork Orange.

[00:36:43] Yeah.

[00:36:44] Wow.

[00:36:44] Okay.

[00:36:45] I mean, it's got a lot of kinetic violence in, and this is one of the things about the

[00:36:48] Pukila test, right?

[00:36:49] There's always these subjective elements like psychological horror versus body horror.

[00:36:54] And then that makes me think right now.

[00:36:56] This is body horror for sure in this one.

[00:36:58] And the kinetic violence of car crashes and trucks smashing into things.

[00:37:05] So there's a lot of, which doesn't necessarily have bodies involved in it, but physical objects

[00:37:14] in the world being smashed together.

[00:37:17] So that's another kind of subviolence.

[00:37:18] So that's an interesting thought.

[00:37:21] Anyway, yeah, I gave it a plus three.

[00:37:22] Aaron, I think you're what?

[00:37:23] 3.5, leaning four.

[00:37:26] This one was a tough one for me.

[00:37:28] I kept grappling back and forth.

[00:37:29] I was like, the violence is a little bit cartoonish at some points, but it's also

[00:37:34] very graphic while being cartoonish.

[00:37:36] So this was a hard one to read for me.

[00:37:39] And we'll talk about it later.

[00:37:41] I'm curious too as to what your guys' read on it because the violence towards women

[00:37:49] seems like I noticed the absence of it.

[00:37:52] Whereas in a lot of these movies, sometimes there's a misogynistic violence that's going on.

[00:37:57] And I didn't notice it in this one.

[00:38:00] But we can talk about it in the spoiler section.

[00:38:03] And the last test is the Lopez test.

[00:38:04] And this is from The True Detective, season four.

[00:38:09] Does a body of work fall within, it's basically a pass-fail, fall within its franchise environs?

[00:38:16] And I would say that this totally passes as a Mad Max franchise without much question.

[00:38:22] You guys?

[00:38:24] Yeah.

[00:38:24] I mean, I think it's kind of the pinnacle in a way because it brings together, you can

[00:38:32] see that he's had time to reflect on all of his various movies and this brings together

[00:38:37] so many elements that made the prior movie stand out like the best of Thunderdome, the

[00:38:42] best of-

[00:38:43] Right.

[00:38:44] Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:38:44] ... Road Warrior.

[00:38:45] Yeah.

[00:38:46] Right.

[00:38:46] Yeah.

[00:38:46] He's definitely drawing on all the elements from the world for sure.

[00:38:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:38:50] Cool.

[00:38:51] All right.

[00:38:53] Without anything else, I think we'll take a quick break and then when we get back, we'll

[00:38:57] start to take the movie apart down to its pieces and then see if we can rebuild ourselves

[00:39:03] a War Rig or not.

[00:39:15] And we are back.

[00:39:18] Okay, let's start talking about the movie in detail.

[00:39:22] We've got a huge outline here, lots of things to talk about.

[00:39:27] Aaron, I'm going to throw it to you to just pick anything, anywhere, pick a starting point

[00:39:32] and then we can just start to flow through our discussion.

[00:39:36] So what's sort of at the top of your mind of things that you want to dig into?

[00:39:42] I wanted to start with everyone's favorite set pieces because-

[00:39:46] Okay, nice.

[00:39:47] Yeah.

[00:39:48] I really loved the battle at the bullet farm.

[00:39:51] Okay.

[00:39:51] I thought that that was so much fun with Dementus trying to hide away from Anya Taylor-Joy

[00:39:56] with the sniper rifle and it was very tense and I thought that the action scenes in that

[00:40:03] moment were very cool.

[00:40:05] Nice.

[00:40:06] Alicia, what's your favorite set piece?

[00:40:10] I don't know if I necessarily have...

[00:40:12] I guess in terms of what really looked cool, I loved when her mom showed up with...

[00:40:19] She had taken the skull hat and just came in like a badass on her motorcycle.

[00:40:27] I was mostly drawn to the character moments, which is one reason why I like this film a

[00:40:31] lot better than Fury Road as well.

[00:40:33] So little things that I keep thinking about, like when she and her mentor turned lover,

[00:40:40] I guess, were leaning against each other at the end before his death and like,

[00:40:44] that's the only goodbye they got to exchange, the only, I loved you,

[00:40:48] but that was all they needed.

[00:40:49] Pretorian Jack.

[00:40:50] Yeah, Pretorian Jack.

[00:40:52] Yeah.

[00:40:52] It's his stands shoulder to shoulder like that.

[00:40:55] And then, yeah, like the fate of Dementus with the tree and this is the stuff that sticks

[00:41:03] in my head.

[00:41:04] Right.

[00:41:05] I think my favorite set piece was the opening because it did something a little bit different

[00:41:15] in that, by and large, it was smart people doing smart stuff.

[00:41:22] And one of the things that drives me nuts about sometimes these action set pieces is

[00:41:27] smart people, what are otherwise smart people do dumb stuff.

[00:41:31] And you're like, wait, why did you run that way?

[00:41:33] You should have run the other way.

[00:41:34] Obviously we have the perspective of being omniscient observers and having time to think

[00:41:42] about these things.

[00:41:43] But I just really liked that, the sequence with her mother and then even Furiosa as a kid,

[00:41:50] just constantly doing smart things, biting the fuel line and in the tent,

[00:41:57] taking advantage of the distractions and stuff.

[00:41:59] I think the one thing she didn't do was like, she didn't do anything to stop the other mother,

[00:42:04] like tie her hands up or something like that.

[00:42:06] And so she was able to tell it on her right away.

[00:42:08] But still, all of that sequence was pretty interesting.

[00:42:12] And it really brought me right into the world right immediately with what was going on.

[00:42:20] I don't know if we needed, in terms of set pieces, I don't know if we needed the war rig montage.

[00:42:28] I don't know if that was one of the pieces that we probably could have cut,

[00:42:31] the building of the war rig.

[00:42:33] I felt like that was a little bit of time we could have saved.

[00:42:37] It seemed to be a little bit of a distraction.

[00:42:40] But all the other set pieces I thought were good into themselves.

[00:42:49] But then as we talked before, just like there's so many of them, it's a little bit much.

[00:42:53] Can we, let's quickly pivot to the, you brought up the tree, Althea, Alisha.

[00:42:59] And this made me think about one of the themes of the movie of revenge.

[00:43:03] My buddy Joe said, oh, well, this reminded me a lot of Kill Bill too.

[00:43:08] Kill Bill story in the terms of this relentless revenge story.

[00:43:13] And I thought about this, which is, is there a difference between vengeance and revenge?

[00:43:22] And then what did Furiosa gain by not just outright killing Dementus?

[00:43:29] Yeah.

[00:43:30] Yeah.

[00:43:31] That sense of vengeance you mean that it's not just about, it's about torturing him.

[00:43:38] Right.

[00:43:39] I mean, I guess there's a difference between revenge and vengeance.

[00:43:42] But is it, I mean, I can see I'm not a violent person, I swear,

[00:43:46] even though I do consume a lot of violent media.

[00:43:48] Exactly.

[00:43:50] But I do wonder, he has twice robbed her, he's robbed her of the two most important people

[00:43:58] in her life in horrific ways and made her watch.

[00:44:01] She watched her mother burn alive and then she watched her lover mentor dragged to death.

[00:44:07] Were they lovers?

[00:44:07] That's an interesting question.

[00:44:08] I don't know.

[00:44:08] I don't know the, yeah, that's because it is a little like grooming with the age she was picked

[00:44:13] up, but it did feel like at the end, they definitely had some sort of very intimate

[00:44:18] relationship, not necessarily sexual, but intimate.

[00:44:21] Did either of you watch The Queen's Gambit?

[00:44:24] Yes.

[00:44:25] So one of the things I really appreciated about that and I appreciate about Anya Taylor-Joy

[00:44:31] as an actor as well in her portrayal is that Queen's Gambit didn't sink down into any kind of-

[00:44:39] Trope.

[00:44:40] Trope around women and violence towards women and what, it was a hero's journey.

[00:44:45] Right.

[00:44:46] It was straight, it was clean.

[00:44:48] She descended, she dealt with her own struggles and she came back after hearing the call and

[00:44:54] she brought knowledge to the people and all that kind of stuff.

[00:44:57] And it was just, they played it straight.

[00:44:59] And the whole time I was watching The Queen's Gambit, I'm just waiting for some creepy,

[00:45:03] groomery, violence-y thing to happen to her and it never did.

[00:45:08] And I was so relieved.

[00:45:10] I was like, oh, thank God.

[00:45:11] See, we can do this.

[00:45:12] We can tell stories in this way without doing it.

[00:45:15] And I thought that this movie also did that.

[00:45:19] They didn't need to make a sexual relationship explicit between Pretoria and Jack and her.

[00:45:25] They didn't need, she was accepted as an Imperator, which is a commander and Pretorian means,

[00:45:33] I've got a note in here what Pretorian means as well.

[00:45:36] But it's like a soldier.

[00:45:38] The Pretorian guard was, yeah, they were the ones who guarded the Emperor.

[00:45:41] Yeah.

[00:45:42] Right.

[00:45:42] And an Imperator is a commander or a general or something like that.

[00:45:49] And she was accepted, even though we've got Immortan Joe with his creepy bride situation.

[00:45:58] At least Furiosa was regarded by people as having a function and command,

[00:46:05] even though she could hide her gender for quite a long time.

[00:46:08] Right.

[00:46:08] But when she reveals herself, everybody's like, oh, cool.

[00:46:12] Right?

[00:46:12] She's a badass.

[00:46:14] What I always think about with the relationship between her and the other Pretorian, Jack,

[00:46:20] was that right?

[00:46:21] Pretorian Jack or Joe?

[00:46:22] Sorry.

[00:46:22] Jack.

[00:46:23] Jack. Yeah. Pretorian Jack. Yeah.

[00:46:25] Is that Dementors said afterwards, I've never seen two people fight so hard for each other.

[00:46:31] And that's why it doesn't really matter what the nature of their relationship is.

[00:46:34] It's just that they were basically each other's whole world in this awful world.

[00:46:38] That was the one person that each of them trusted.

[00:46:42] And that great scene when she begins to start to walk the long, empty road back,

[00:46:48] and then he shows up and he says, look, I can offer you something.

[00:46:52] And then he offers to keep the weapon as a sign of trust.

[00:46:57] Right?

[00:46:57] I thought that was a really, really great turn.

[00:47:00] That little pistol knife, brass knuckle thing is a real thing.

[00:47:04] It's called a Pepperbox.

[00:47:06] There's a great website called the Internet Movie Firearm Database.

[00:47:11] And you can put in any movie and it lists all of the weapons that are in there.

[00:47:15] And so, yeah, that was a real thing.

[00:47:18] But it was a token of her, his esteem.

[00:47:23] He's like, hey, you can trust me because you can keep that weapon.

[00:47:26] Which I also found it interesting that he gave her a sawed off double barrel shotgun,

[00:47:30] which is Max's weapon of choice from the original Road Warrior.

[00:47:35] And Mad Max movies.

[00:47:38] I mean, yeah, maybe they seem to draw a lot of parallels with her.

[00:47:43] And Max.

[00:47:45] Right.

[00:47:45] And but where he chooses to be a wandering, not being detached from society,

[00:47:53] she's attaching herself to society.

[00:47:56] Right.

[00:47:57] Yeah.

[00:47:57] She is doing, she's attaching herself to society a little bit for her own gain

[00:48:03] so that she can accomplish her personal goals of, you know,

[00:48:08] eventually overthrowing Immortan Joe and Fury Road.

[00:48:11] But she definitely has goals in mind when she is doing everything she's.

[00:48:17] There was never a moment where I was like, why is she doing what she's doing?

[00:48:20] Which is pretty common in actions, move action movies like this,

[00:48:24] where it's good point during what's going on.

[00:48:26] Right.

[00:48:27] I was a little confused by Pretoria Jack's introduction because suddenly he was just there.

[00:48:31] And I was like, wait, what?

[00:48:35] The movie felt long, but also at the same time,

[00:48:38] there were key sequences or connectivity parts that I felt missing that I wanted more from.

[00:48:44] And in some ways I wanted more Pretoria Jack and Furiosa scenes together where they were.

[00:48:52] It hurt me when he died, but of course he had to.

[00:48:56] Right.

[00:48:57] Yeah.

[00:48:59] Do you guys know Tom Burke?

[00:49:00] I don't recognize him at all.

[00:49:02] I looked him up and he was in like one thing that I previously knew,

[00:49:07] but now I can't even remember what it was.

[00:49:09] But he did such a good job in this that I immediately left the theater and was like,

[00:49:13] who is that?

[00:49:14] Right, right.

[00:49:15] Yeah.

[00:49:16] Yeah.

[00:49:16] I've never seen him in anything else, but I hope that now that he's gotten a little bit of

[00:49:20] exposure in this, maybe we'll start seeing him in some other projects

[00:49:23] because I thought he did a fantastic job in this film.

[00:49:26] Did you guys catch that Valkyrie, the girl that she left at the beginning when they were

[00:49:33] picking fruits?

[00:49:35] That is the same character in Fury Road that she meets up again with

[00:49:40] out when they go to try to go back to the green place.

[00:49:44] Yeah, I had that pointed out to me, but I did not pick it up myself.

[00:49:48] I didn't pick it up until I was doing research and trying to read some stuff and read up on

[00:49:53] characters.

[00:49:53] Then I was like, oh wait, I had two different Google pages on with the Furiosa and Fury Road.

[00:49:57] I was like, wait, Valkyrie?

[00:49:58] Oh wait, oh, that's very cool.

[00:50:00] That was a very cool little connection there.

[00:50:02] And that's why she was so great in Fury Road when they reconnect, why there's such a

[00:50:10] vibe in their connection, right?

[00:50:11] And they're happy to see each other.

[00:50:13] Yeah.

[00:50:13] I think there's a lot of details where if I go back and watch Fury Road sometime soon,

[00:50:17] I'm going to find it a lot more enjoyable than I did the first time because of all the setup work

[00:50:22] that Furiosa does.

[00:50:23] Right, for sure.

[00:50:27] How are we on Furiosa's arc here?

[00:50:30] I mean, obviously it's a prequel, so we're connecting her to a known place.

[00:50:35] Did it work for you guys?

[00:50:36] Did the rail lines meet up appropriately?

[00:50:39] There wasn't too much of a hitch?

[00:50:41] Yeah.

[00:50:42] Yeah.

[00:50:43] I was a little bit confused at first.

[00:50:47] They spent a lot more time with child Furiosa than I thought that they would during story

[00:50:52] arc, which I didn't dislike.

[00:50:53] I really enjoyed all the parts where she was a kid, which was kind of surprising to me.

[00:50:58] I thought I was going to be sitting there waiting like, when are we going to get to

[00:51:01] Anya Taylor-Joy as Furiosa?

[00:51:04] But I enjoyed both portrayals equally.

[00:51:07] So what you're telling us is that you would be down for a mini series?

[00:51:10] Yeah, a little bit.

[00:51:14] Yeah, it was a long time with child Furiosa and then a long time with teen Furiosa, right?

[00:51:20] We had three distinct ages with her, and we spent a long time in childhood.

[00:51:25] Yeah, no, I was very surprised by that.

[00:51:27] But the younger version did a great job.

[00:51:30] She killed it.

[00:51:32] She really did.

[00:51:33] I didn't note her name as the actor's name, but she did a great job.

[00:51:37] That's for sure.

[00:51:39] I think Elisa did in her voicemail.

[00:51:43] Okay, very cool.

[00:51:44] So speaking of characters, I don't know.

[00:51:47] I love all the wacky names in the Mad Max universe and franchise.

[00:51:53] But I got a question for you guys.

[00:51:55] Who wore it better, Humongous from Road Warrior or Dementus as our chief protagonist?

[00:52:04] We get introduced to Immortan Joe and his clan, but it's really about Dementus.

[00:52:09] And so much of Dementus for me is rooted in the Humongous character from Road Warrior 2.

[00:52:19] Well, not to upset Edna, the costume designer from Invincible, but Dementus is the cape.

[00:52:26] He is the color changing cape.

[00:52:31] I really enjoyed Dementus much more as a villain than I enjoyed Humongous.

[00:52:37] He felt more like a real person, a real character.

[00:52:41] Even though he was not as intimidating.

[00:52:43] I don't think that Chris Hemsworth was very intimidating as Dementus,

[00:52:47] even though he was supposed to be scary.

[00:52:51] But he was doing bad things though.

[00:52:53] Yes, he was still doing awful things and you can see how he would terrorize people.

[00:52:57] But something about Chris Hemsworth, I can't look at him without

[00:53:02] feeling a little bit like he's goofy.

[00:53:05] He's got that sense of humor to him.

[00:53:07] Yeah.

[00:53:08] And his performance was, it's one of the most chatty of the Mad Max characters.

[00:53:16] And I think this goes into some of how George Miller, when he started with this franchise,

[00:53:24] part of his idea was, I need this to be able to play.

[00:53:27] We don't have any budget.

[00:53:29] So I need this to be able to play international.

[00:53:32] And I need to do this without doing a lot of translation or subtitle work.

[00:53:36] And so he just really tried to use the screen to tell the story with minimal dialogue.

[00:53:44] And so we're used to a lot of not dialogue, I guess.

[00:53:49] I don't know.

[00:53:49] I wonder how Denis Villeneuve feels about a George Miller film with his famous quote about

[00:53:55] dialogue versus screen.

[00:53:56] Because I think in a lot of ways, George Miller is doing that precisely.

[00:54:00] I really miss the dialogue and story in Fury Road though.

[00:54:03] In this one, I think it was...

[00:54:05] But there was here, there were some great lines.

[00:54:09] Probably my favorite thing in the movie is the speech Dementors gives at the end.

[00:54:15] I totally agree with you.

[00:54:16] And I was so frustrated by the filmmaking because by the time we got to that scene,

[00:54:22] I was exhausted and I couldn't take in what Hemsworth was saying.

[00:54:28] And there were so many great lines.

[00:54:30] And I was like, wait, what?

[00:54:31] And every time I caught up with a line, he let out another one and I just got lost in it.

[00:54:37] But I loved the character arc of Dementors of being...

[00:54:42] He's like, yeah, we've all lost, and this is how I'm dealing with it.

[00:54:46] And this is where I've gotten to.

[00:54:47] And he's so self-reflective about it in some refreshing way.

[00:54:53] I don't know.

[00:54:54] Yeah.

[00:54:55] And they include his loss and his sadness into his character design as well.

[00:55:00] You've got the teddy bear that belonged to his kids before the fall of civilization that he keeps

[00:55:06] on him at all times.

[00:55:07] LSD Right.

[00:55:07] CB And he gave that to Furiosa at one point, which was a huge gesture for him.

[00:55:14] I think he thought that he had a real bond with Furiosa and when eventually...

[00:55:18] LSD Until he sold it.

[00:55:19] CB Yes, exactly.

[00:55:22] Yeah, I think that he thought more of their relationship than they actually were up until

[00:55:25] the point when it wasn't beneficial for him anymore, or he had some other reason to benefit

[00:55:30] from selling her to Immortan Joe.

[00:55:32] LSD Right.

[00:55:34] Interesting.

[00:55:34] When I watched Road Warrior the other day and there's a scene where Humongous is taking out his

[00:55:41] pistol and loading in, there's a couple of scenes where he's opening the lacquered box.

[00:55:46] And you can see on the lid of the box, there's a picture of a man standing in uniform with a woman

[00:55:53] and some medals.

[00:55:55] And so I think George Miller is always building the three-dimensionality of these characters and

[00:56:01] sort of where they've come from.

[00:56:03] LSD Right.

[00:56:04] CB And so I think Humongous had backstory, but we were just given the spectacle of Humongous.

[00:56:10] Whereas with Hemsworth, he actually, as you said,

[00:56:14] Alicia, that we actually get to spend some time with him and learn.

[00:56:18] And he actually has dialogue so we can actually understand him a little bit more.

[00:56:21] LSD And it was also cool to see the Citadel from his outsider perspective,

[00:56:26] you know, to have him roll up and be like,

[00:56:28] Ooh, I'm just gonna take this place.

[00:56:30] I'm here.

[00:56:30] We got our whole routine.

[00:56:32] And they're like, Oh, your routines cute.

[00:56:34] Let's just go have someone quick kill himself to show you what you're up against.

[00:56:38] CB Right.

[00:56:39] Yeah.

[00:56:40] That little bit was pretty funny too.

[00:56:42] Like pick a pick a war boy.

[00:56:44] And he's like, not you.

[00:56:48] That was pretty funny.

[00:56:49] I did have a Mandela moment in this movie where I thought the mic that Humongous,

[00:56:57] or sorry, the mic that Dementus was using was the same one that same kind of style and model

[00:57:03] that Humongous was using.

[00:57:05] But no, it turns out that they were totally different.

[00:57:07] But I had it in my mind that they were the same.

[00:57:12] Right.

[00:57:13] So there was a point that you brought up about,

[00:57:16] oh, yeah, what that we were starting to talk about with

[00:57:21] Vittoria and Jack and Furiosa.

[00:57:23] And this idea of the master apprentice relationship.

[00:57:29] Certainly we're going to be dealing with that with the Acolytes.

[00:57:31] And that's a huge cornerstone of the Star Wars world.

[00:57:35] I think even Fallout, which you were covering, there's a,

[00:57:38] not so much master apprentice, but there's a squire, you know, knight squire relationship.

[00:57:43] Yeah.

[00:57:44] The relationship in that is a little bit more hateful and envious,

[00:57:48] but it's for sure a theme in that a little bit too.

[00:57:51] Right.

[00:57:52] Yeah.

[00:57:53] I really appreciated the master apprentice relationship in this,

[00:57:56] in that Vittoria and Jack wasn't ever, I don't know, he related to her in a really different way

[00:58:05] that I thought was refreshing.

[00:58:07] And he saw her potential.

[00:58:11] He saw the utility value of having a partner like that,

[00:58:15] but he was also freely giving her the training and the experience.

[00:58:21] He seemed kind of cool too, because he was even like,

[00:58:23] I know it was a little bit of a setup with the war boys,

[00:58:26] but he's like, yeah, jump in.

[00:58:27] You can drive the war rig.

[00:58:29] Like he seemed as a master who's teaching other people.

[00:58:32] And he actually was committed to the idea of sharing his knowledge and elevating other people,

[00:58:40] which I thought was a bit different in these kinds of circumstances.

[00:58:45] Yeah.

[00:58:45] I liked that they had more of that.

[00:58:49] They had like this storytelling tradition in like, it seems like Dementus was a showman,

[00:58:58] but I liked that they had, and I was trying to look up

[00:59:01] the title of the guy with the tattoos all over his face because apparently-

[00:59:05] The history man.

[00:59:06] Mm-hmm.

[00:59:07] Yeah, history man.

[00:59:08] Yeah.

[00:59:08] Apparently that's a thing from the comics.

[00:59:10] And yeah, I thought that was a really cool touch.

[00:59:12] And that kind of made me almost root for their group in a way,

[00:59:16] even though they're just as bad as the others, obviously.

[00:59:19] They killed Furiosa's mom.

[00:59:21] She would consider them even more bad, I guess.

[00:59:24] Yeah.

[00:59:25] Every time the history man opened up his mouth, I was listening very closely.

[00:59:30] I love those types of wise characters.

[00:59:32] It's such a cliche, but the old man who knows everything is such a great trope in my mind.

[00:59:38] And between this guy and Jessica in Dune, I apparently like some text on face tattoos.

[00:59:46] Yes.

[00:59:47] One of our regular recurring elements of our one-shots is comparisons or

[00:59:53] if we want to be a little less kind, spot the trope.

[00:59:58] But that was totally one of mine was Dune 2 was certainly in the sand and the desert,

[01:00:03] but then certainly a history man with the writing on his face.

[01:00:08] Not a direct comparison, it was just a little element.

[01:00:11] But I think the difference between them is history man believes he drinks his own Kool-Aid

[01:00:17] and Jessica is purely putting on a show.

[01:00:21] Ah, that's a good point.

[01:00:22] That's a good point.

[01:00:24] Yeah.

[01:00:24] This movie felt a little bit like training wheels for Anya Taylor Joy to be in Dune 3.

[01:00:31] Fair call.

[01:00:32] Well, hopefully history man is drinking Kool-Aid and not

[01:00:35] other liquid substances in the wastelands.

[01:00:42] So I noticed your comment here, Erin,

[01:00:46] love seeing Immortan Joe, Dementus, Valkyrie, and then some guy just named Jack.

[01:00:52] That's why he's Pretorius, Jack.

[01:00:54] I love how there's, I saw this in pretty close succession with Kingdom of the Planet of the

[01:01:01] Apes. And there's also a character in that movie who's obsessed with the Roman Empire.

[01:01:05] I'm like, it's just like that TikTok meme.

[01:01:10] How often do these characters think about the Roman Empire?

[01:01:12] Yeah. Well, yeah, Immortan Joe is definitely living the Roman Empire for sure. For sure.

[01:01:18] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:01:20] By the way, did you get-

[01:01:22] Yeah, go ahead, please.

[01:01:23] Did you guys know about the story about, so I loved the bit, there was the war boy,

[01:01:29] like literal boy in, he was in the back with the bomby knocker thing.

[01:01:34] Right, right.

[01:01:34] And they even, and I love like, for instance, at one point, they just show a character,

[01:01:38] he's like, bomby knocker time? Like not yet. And so show him like hanging out,

[01:01:42] spraying this stuff on his hand, like, you know, just like being a kid.

[01:01:46] And then he dies. That actually really hit me. Like that's the only war boy in this movie I

[01:01:51] cared about dying. But the boy, his name is Craydon Bales. He's Australian. I mean, I guess

[01:02:00] they mostly are. And he was, he has a form of dwarfism and he was bullied at school.

[01:02:05] So George Miller found out and put him in this movie.

[01:02:08] Oh, that's very cool. Nice.

[01:02:09] That's very cool.

[01:02:11] Yeah, I get to love the Australian names for things, right? Bomby knocker, like, that's just

[01:02:16] Yeah. Okay, did it feel out of place to anyone else that Anya Taylor-Joy did not attempt the

[01:02:22] Australian accent in her portrayal of Furiosa?

[01:02:26] She's from a different place. She's from the green place with many mothers.

[01:02:31] That's very true. They must have dropped the Australian accent over in the green place.

[01:02:36] Maybe that's why they didn't have her speak much.

[01:02:39] There you go. That's a good point. That's a good point.

[01:02:42] But Charlie's Throne didn't either, right?

[01:02:44] I mean, she's South African.

[01:02:46] She played it straight. Yeah. I noticed one thing too with Anya Taylor, well,

[01:02:51] with the Furiosa character, they made a big deal of the star map on her arm.

[01:02:57] And then when she loses her arm, which I thought was a great cutaway when they just show

[01:03:02] her arm hanging there like she did this on purpose. That was like, okay, badass moment.

[01:03:08] But that they didn't do a lot of follow-up work with the star map. So if you weren't,

[01:03:15] I mean, there was so much to track. But in this, they just sort of like,

[01:03:19] oh wait, that was it. It never, I don't know, never played again. And I don't know, did that,

[01:03:25] did you guys notice that? Did they click that or should there have been more?

[01:03:30] I kind of feel like there should have been more.

[01:03:32] I mean, I guess it was symbolic. I took it as in a way, she was so connected to her home and that

[01:03:40] was the moment where she let go of her home sort of for a while until the mothers said like,

[01:03:50] please get us out of here apparently.

[01:03:53] Yeah. I was just wondering, did the mothers approach her or did she approach the mothers?

[01:04:00] In Fury Road, she said that they were begging her.

[01:04:03] Okay. Interesting.

[01:04:05] Yeah. I definitely wanted more resolution to the star map on the arm. Like Alicia said,

[01:04:12] the symbolism of her letting go of her original life and coming.

[01:04:16] Yeah, I like that.

[01:04:17] Yeah. It's great. But I feel like they did so much set up with that star map and then

[01:04:22] to have it just be gone. It was a little like, well, what now?

[01:04:26] Yeah. It was, they did a lot of setup. There was at least two or three moments where we see it or

[01:04:33] it's referred to. Jack asks her about it, I think at one point and then, yep, it's just gone.

[01:04:42] Can we talk a little bit about cinematography and special effects?

[01:04:48] What did you guys, how did you guys take the overall visual aesthetic of the movie?

[01:04:56] I got some thoughts, but I'm curious to what you guys, did it work for you? Did anything not work

[01:05:02] for you? Yeah. I mean, I think if anything, they could have, it was slightly less oversaturated

[01:05:08] than Fury Road and I think they could have amped up the saturation even more, but they did play

[01:05:13] well with the color, especially the color red. And it just kind of all looks like a desert fever

[01:05:18] dream to me, which is as it should. So for me, yes, it looks like it was filmed the way that

[01:05:24] it was filmed. But for me, that works with the sort of mythic, sort of hazy setting.

[01:05:35] Yeah.

[01:05:35] Right. And that plays into the otherworldliness, I guess, of this. It's separated from our

[01:05:42] reality because it is hyper and hazy and hot. You can feel the heat in a lot of ways.

[01:05:49] Yeah. I think that for having a film completely set in an empty desert, that they made it very

[01:05:55] visually interesting. I was never looking at the screen feeling like I was bored or that I wanted

[01:06:02] more out of it. They did a great job of kind of keeping my eyes on the screen, even though it was

[01:06:06] such a desolate sort of landscape that they were in. Yeah. Nice. That's cool.

[01:06:11] I was wondering, too, about the filming style that George has developed over the years. And

[01:06:19] I'm glad I was able to get Road Warrior and Thunderdome in because there's a thing that

[01:06:27] he did in the first movie. I don't know that he does it in Thunderdome at all, but in the first

[01:06:33] two movies, there are, I think he might have done it more in Max, but I haven't watched Mad Max in

[01:06:38] a while. John and I covered it on Second Breakfast a while ago, but I know I wasn't

[01:06:45] paying attention to that, this detail of the frame rate or the dropped frames issue. And then

[01:06:53] the way that he zooms and sort of does these camera movements. And I thought-

[01:07:00] Yeah. I'm not sure that he gets a credit for that. I think there's a

[01:07:03] cinematographer who's known for that, but I can't remember their names.

[01:07:07] Sure. But he used it definitely effectively in Mad Max when they had no budget.

[01:07:12] And so the traveling camera, a traveling camera with a zoom and then drop frame rates gives you

[01:07:18] a like, whoa, I really did just open up the nitrous oxide engine of taken off. But in this

[01:07:26] movie, it actually started to get in the way of my enjoyment because rather than it being a gonzo

[01:07:35] we're making a movie with no budget and then the cops show up because we haven't filed permits,

[01:07:41] but then we turn the cameras on them and say, hey, do you guys want to be in a movie? And they're

[01:07:44] like, yeah, let's go. And so everybody's in and they're doing all this wacky stuff.

[01:07:50] To me, it almost feels like it's becoming a parody of itself. It's kind of jumping the shark

[01:07:56] a little bit. Okay.

[01:07:57] He's trying to create that style, but then in the trying, it becomes a little inauthentic.

[01:08:05] And a little bit overused. And so that's one of the things that didn't work for me in the movie

[01:08:10] is that I could feel him doing it intentionally. Whereas when I was watching Road Warrior the other

[01:08:15] day, when he did it, I was like, oh, I understand why you're using that in this moment. It makes

[01:08:21] sense because of what you're trying to tell me from a visual story standing telling standpoint.

[01:08:26] Whereas in this movie, it felt more like a flourish or like, hey, we're doing the thing.

[01:08:32] Yeah.

[01:08:33] I don't know. Neither of you didn't seem to affect either of you guys.

[01:08:36] No, I mean, I liked it. Yeah.

[01:08:40] I was just gonna say, I think that that feeling of it becoming a little bit of a parody of itself,

[01:08:46] maybe for me, I didn't mind it so much because I think of Mad Max is such a ridiculous franchise.

[01:08:53] So maybe that didn't bother me as much. Yeah. What about you, Alicia?

[01:08:57] I come to these movies expecting that. So I guess it didn't register as something great for me,

[01:09:05] but it definitely didn't take me out. It was like, yeah, this looks like a Mad Max movie.

[01:09:09] Yeah. I have to go back and watch Fury Road to see how much he used it there. He barely used it,

[01:09:17] if at all, in Thunderdome. But then Thunderdome, there was only one big set piece vehicle chase.

[01:09:24] So it wasn't a lot of opportunity. Where in Road Warrior and in this, there's a lot of vehicle

[01:09:30] stuff. And I love bringing the camera, physically getting close to your subject with the camera

[01:09:36] while you're zooming is a really great effect. It really gives you the shock and awe of being on the

[01:09:45] back of a war rig as it's being assaulted by a bunch of crazy people. Well, let's start to think

[01:09:55] about wrapping up a little bit. I'm curious, Aaron, you've got some themes and ideas here that

[01:10:01] we haven't touched on yet. Furiosa as Angel of Death, what's that?

[01:10:08] She acts as the Angel of Death in Dementus' case, this grim Reaper figure

[01:10:15] to deliver him to the afterlife, which I think is very cool. Sometimes it's a malicious thing,

[01:10:21] sometimes it's peaceful in mythology. And the thing that I find most interesting about Furiosa

[01:10:27] of being a stand in for the Angel of Death in this movie is the original Angel of Death comes

[01:10:34] from the Talmud and comes from demons who are associated with the apocalypse, the moral decline

[01:10:41] of mankind and the fall of mankind. So, really just hitting on every single theme of Mad Max with

[01:10:46] that comparison there. And a little bit more on the nose, the history man calls Furiosa the fifth

[01:10:52] writer of the apocalypse. Yeah, we've got pestilence, destruction, death, famine in popular.

[01:10:59] Yeah, and Furiosa, I guess she would be furier vengeance, something like that as the fifth writer.

[01:11:06] Well, it's funny that that's her name as a child. I almost thought that that was a name she took on

[01:11:11] as an adult, but to hear like her parents are like, oh, you know, we're going to make our kid fierce.

[01:11:17] Yeah, with her and Valkyrie, the people at the green place are like, we're going to give our

[01:11:22] kids some badass names here. We're going to infuse them with badassness so they can

[01:11:27] defend their home.

[01:11:28] No Jacks here.

[01:11:31] Alicia, did you get any Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes vibes at the beginning of the movie when

[01:11:35] she's reaching for the fruit? It reminded me of that opening sequence.

[01:11:39] Oh, with the egg stuff that they're doing? Yeah. Although I have to say I was holding my breath

[01:11:47] more a lot through the Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes sequence and the opening Furiosa

[01:11:52] sequence, but that's also probably because I knew she wasn't going to die, obviously.

[01:11:56] Right. Yeah. I think it's an interesting thing too, in this whole world of prequels where we know

[01:12:03] the following story and now we're telling the preceding story. I think Better Call Saul was

[01:12:10] an amazing execution of this, is can we line the railway tracks up so that the train car

[01:12:17] can pass seamlessly from the after to the before? And I think they did a pretty good job with this

[01:12:26] one overall. I don't want to slide too far off into the Star Wars land, but Solo tried to do

[01:12:35] this as well, but every time they gave us the Kessel Run stuff or the other member berries of

[01:12:45] things, it was a little too much on the nose. It was a little too obvious that they were winking,

[01:12:49] oh, here, wink, wink, this is how this happens.

[01:12:52] I love Solo for the record, but okay.

[01:12:53] Okay. This felt really seamless in terms of lore building and history without being,

[01:13:01] like, I don't know, maybe the claw arm montage was a little bit too much. Like,

[01:13:06] did we really need five minutes of her making the arm? I don't know.

[01:13:11] Yeah. There's a lot of things they could have just shaved off a moment here or there to

[01:13:16] tighten it up.

[01:13:17] Yeah. Well, on that note too, let's talk a little bit about-

[01:13:20] What was Aaron about? Sorry.

[01:13:22] Oh, sorry. Oh, no, no, no. I didn't have anything else to say.

[01:13:25] Oh, okay.

[01:13:27] Let's dig in a little bit to what, you know, to be a bit more specific, like,

[01:13:32] what did work or what didn't work for you specifically in the movie? Alicia,

[01:13:37] do you have any things you want to call out?

[01:13:39] I mean, I kind of, I brought up a lot of it before, but like the speech really worked for

[01:13:46] me at the end. The, um, the, just the fact that it felt more like, like I want a myth to not just

[01:13:54] be like they, they went to the green place, found the green place was gone. And then they came back

[01:14:00] like, wow, wow, wow. You know, this was, this gave me some, a meaty story and this gave me,

[01:14:06] I love character work above all things. And this gave me a lot of that. I do think that we got a

[01:14:11] lot of arcs for not just for Furiosa, but also for the villains. So all of that did work for me.

[01:14:18] It's yeah, it's, it's a, it's a fun ride. It's not like it's, I think it might be in my top 10

[01:14:24] of the year right now, probably not by the end of the year, but it's a solid movie. Yeah.

[01:14:28] Cool. Right on. Aaron, anything that specific that you want to call out that worked or didn't work

[01:14:34] for you? Yeah. Towards the end of the film, something that didn't work for me was the

[01:14:38] wild goose chase with Dementus across the desert where he had his decoys and

[01:14:44] Furiosa kind of one by one went off and found each of them before finally getting to Dementus.

[01:14:50] I felt like she's already been chasing Dementus for so long that it was kind of boring me a little

[01:14:55] bit at that point. I just wanted her to get to him, have the confrontation and have it end.

[01:15:01] But on a positive note with Dementus, I really loved his nomadic biker clan that was going across

[01:15:07] the desert. I always enjoy that type of group. I'm seeing the, the horde moving across the

[01:15:13] visuals. Yeah. Yeah. Like thinking of the Dothraki from game of thrones or something like that. Those

[01:15:18] types of factions always interest me. Right. Very cool. I really liked one of the things that really

[01:15:25] worked for me was Hemsworth's port his portrayal of Dementus. I thought it worked and he was gonzo

[01:15:33] in the way that we want a gonzo character, but he was also relatable in a lot of ways. He was

[01:15:41] clever, but then his cleverness, his arrogance was also his downfall. And you could feel like

[01:15:49] when we see Gastown and what's going on there, it's not a good situation. So he's a really bad

[01:15:56] manager, but as a tactician or a strategist to achieve a short-term goal, he's really good

[01:16:02] and very clever. And so I liked that, that dimensionality. And I think he plays,

[01:16:07] I think Hemsworth can play that. I think Alyssa called him a trickster character. Nice. Very cool.

[01:16:14] Yeah. That's good. A couple of things that didn't work for me were the chapter markers, you know,

[01:16:21] the, I was like, did we need those? I don't know. I liked the idea. I thought that he was going to go

[01:16:26] with something, but then it kind of just didn't by the time the later chapter markers came,

[01:16:31] I was like, do I care? Like, I'm not really sure. The time jumps also sometimes disoriented me,

[01:16:39] even though that they worked and I get it, but there was one where they sped up. What was it

[01:16:44] that flew off and got caught in a branch at the Citadel? Her wig. Her wig. Yeah. Oh yeah. I had

[01:16:52] questions about that, but yeah. And then they give us the time speed up and it's like, okay.

[01:16:58] But then there's other time jumps and things. And then there was a narration too. And, you know,

[01:17:03] the narration in Road Warrior is a very important, we don't have narration in, I think either Mad Max

[01:17:12] nor Thunderdome. So they did it in here and I'm not sure that it worked for me. So structurally,

[01:17:23] I was like, you just don't need all this stuff. We know we're smart enough to know that this is

[01:17:28] child, this is teenage and this is adult Furiosa. So yeah, I don't know. It was a little bit

[01:17:36] frustrating at times. Least and most favorite moments. Alicia, what's a, you've mentioned a

[01:17:44] couple already, but just to clarify, did you have anything specific that we haven't talked about yet?

[01:17:49] Um, I mean, I guess just, uh, I guess just like the way that they used color in the film. It's

[01:17:58] not a specific moment, but there's a couple of times when it comes up. Maybe one of the key

[01:18:03] times is when they come across that war boy in the road. And I'm still not sure why he's just so

[01:18:08] willing to be like, Hey, okay. I took it because he had an arrow in his head. So he was feeling a

[01:18:14] little bit. He was not feeling himself. Um, that was a funny scene though. Yeah. And then, yeah.

[01:18:21] And, and of course, uh, Dementors being, you know, the showman that he is, he rolls with,

[01:18:26] he's like, this is a look. He's like, I'm going to rub it on myself. I'm going to rub it on my

[01:18:30] little, my little G I'm going to, you know, which by the way, I mean the little girl, not

[01:18:35] Yes.

[01:18:38] Although maybe, I don't know. Um, and least favorite. Yeah. I did have like an issue

[01:18:46] with that whole wig thing. I'm like, why did she, so I guess the idea of her making a wig of her own

[01:18:52] hair is that she was going to wear it until she could slip off at the right time. And then

[01:18:57] the right time came because that guy tried to take advantage of her. Yeah. Yeah. It was kind

[01:19:04] of a weird, confusing for me and I was, I don't know. And then why I just, it was there to show

[01:19:09] the passage of time with a little tree lit growing through it. So I was a little, I don't know. Yeah.

[01:19:15] Yeah. Aaron. Yeah. What did you, what do you got for least favorite?

[01:19:20] Yeah. So one of my favorite moments, I mentioned this a little bit earlier,

[01:19:24] but the Jack and Furiosa escaped from the bullet farm. I thought that was a really fun action

[01:19:28] sequence. Nice. Um, call me a hater, but my, one of my least favorite moments was that quick,

[01:19:35] like two second Mad Max cameo. I was like, we didn't need that. This is her movie. Let

[01:19:41] her have this moment. We don't need him. I didn't even notice until it was pointed out to me.

[01:19:46] Yeah. And then when I saw it and I was like, well, that's the interceptor

[01:19:50] that has to be max and he doesn't engage. Okay. That's clearly a max characteristic,

[01:19:56] but I do. I also like, did we need another thing that we could have not, the movie would have been

[01:20:02] perfectly fine if we hadn't had that and it would have actually saved a moment. And

[01:20:07] every time that he would give us a little something like that, that's more emotional energy

[01:20:12] that I have to devote to other things that are not on your Taylor Joy's performance of, of,

[01:20:18] of Furiosa, which is why I'm here for the movie. I'm here to see on your Taylor Joy

[01:20:24] tell the story of, of Furiosa. Right. There were a lot of distractions from her story and

[01:20:29] her performance in the movie that didn't have to be there. Right. Right. I think for me,

[01:20:36] my least favorite sequence was the 40 day war stuff. I, it, it was confusing. It kind of

[01:20:46] mushed down. Did we really need it? And then the weird thing, so for 40 days she was making her arm

[01:20:54] and then she shows up at the end. I don't know. It just was, it lost cohesion for me with that.

[01:21:02] And my two favorite scenes though were the chase out of the green place. Like I said before,

[01:21:10] that was my favorite set piece. And I think that's my favorite sequence out of all of it.

[01:21:14] Cause it had energy. It had focus. I knew where we were going. I understood what the stakes were

[01:21:19] and it just felt very road warrior in all of the ways that I want, which is, you know,

[01:21:24] all this intense action, but it was very personal because it was mother and daughter against the

[01:21:29] horde. And as opposed to two, two groups of, of opposing forces fighting, you know,

[01:21:35] the war rig people and whoever's attacking the war rig kind of stuff. Right. And then I,

[01:21:39] I really liked Dementus's final speech. But like I said before, I was exhausted by the time we got

[01:21:45] to it. And I just love the fact that he's like, you're me, you know, you know, you follow this

[01:21:50] through to your natural conclusion. We've lost people. You lost your mother. I lost my children

[01:21:55] and, and we're not so different. You and I, and, and the lucidity and the clear eyedness that he had

[01:22:04] in those statements I found really for refreshing for a bad guy. We, we talk sometimes about what

[01:22:09] makes a good bad guy and what makes a good bad guy is somebody that you can relate to or understand

[01:22:14] their logic or their compelling, you know, that they have some sort of compelling reason, not

[01:22:18] that they just want to twirl their mustache to twirl their mustache. Yeah. There's sort of an

[01:22:24] interesting connection to the whole 40 day war and Dementus's death thing in the 2015 Mad Max tie-in

[01:22:31] game where the main antagonist in that game is Immortan Joe's son named Scabbers Scrotus,

[01:22:38] who we see in the movie. He's the guy with the big forehead and in that sequence,

[01:22:45] he goes around claiming that he was the one who kills Dementus in that game. So sort of an

[01:22:52] interesting tie-in and maybe showing that he's a little bit dishonest and willing to take the

[01:22:57] credit for something he didn't do. Liar, liar, forehead on fire. Yep. All right. Any other

[01:23:05] comps or shout outs that you want to make for this movie? I already called out Kingdom of the

[01:23:11] Planet of the Apes, Dune II and Kill Bill. I have one other nerd alert that I wanted. I already

[01:23:19] talked about a couple of the guns in the internet movie firearm database, but Dementus's gun is

[01:23:26] the same gun that the man in black in the Westworld television series uses. It's called

[01:23:33] a Lamatt revolver and it has a small bore shotgun chamber underneath its regular revolver chamber.

[01:23:42] And so this one has been modified and souped up, but I saw when she loaded that, I was like,

[01:23:48] wait a minute, I know that gun. So anyway, AJ, any call outs you have? Yeah, well, it wouldn't be a

[01:23:55] podcast with me on it without me yapping about Fallout for at least a little bit. So Mad Max is

[01:24:02] a lot of the inspiration for the Fallout series and specifically the aesthetic, like the leather

[01:24:08] armor, the sawed off shotgun, the blue healer that Max has with him in the second Mad Max movie is

[01:24:13] the inspiration for the dog named Dogmeat in all of the Fallout games. Oh, no way. Okay. And there's

[01:24:21] some cool Mad Max references in the achievements for the games. Like they have the master blaster,

[01:24:28] blaster master armor from Thunderdome in the pit DLC in Fallout three. They've got a chance

[01:24:34] encounter with a character in Fallout three called Mel and he looks exactly like Mel Gibson

[01:24:39] and is dressed like Mad Max. So there's just endless references like that in the series.

[01:24:44] Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when we talk about post-apocalyptic storylines, Mad Max is the

[01:24:51] key cornerstone, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It's so influential.

[01:24:56] Yeah. And I think Alicia's got a specific call out as well.

[01:25:00] I mean, I love some wacky movies and one that really stands out when I was rewatching these

[01:25:06] Mad Max movies, I was like, I have to go back and rewatch Doomsday from 2008.

[01:25:13] This is the problem. More people need to know about this and watch this bat shit movie.

[01:25:17] It is. It starts out as like, I wrote on Twitter, it has four acts. It starts out as 28 weeks later

[01:25:26] and then it turns into beyond cannibal dome. And then it becomes this like

[01:25:36] Lord of the Outlander situation in a castle. And then it becomes the fast and the road warrior.

[01:25:46] Okay. It ends with like, the main character's name is Eden and then it ends with like Eden

[01:25:53] impossible. And it's just, it's an absolutely crazy movie, but it actually holds together

[01:26:02] pretty well. Like it's early or mid noughties, sorry, late noughties, 2008 exposition dump.

[01:26:09] But the exposition is actually some pretty decent world building. Like it all makes sense.

[01:26:14] And they have, I only care about the one hero though. And then there's someone else you meet

[01:26:18] later. But there's like vicious villains. Yeah. Nice. Adding that one to my watch list. Very good.

[01:26:28] I see we've got a note here from you Alicia, as well as for a power ranking for the movies.

[01:26:35] I just have to say about Doomsday, by the way, if anyone has seen the quote unquote sequel to

[01:26:40] Train to Busan called Peninsula, Peninsula is a total rip off of Doomsday. Anyway.

[01:26:45] Wait, there's a sequel to Train to Busan?

[01:26:49] It is the same director, but it feels like a completely different movie. It feels like he

[01:26:52] watched Doomsday and was like, I want to make that film. But so it's like them going back into

[01:26:57] Korea with Korea being under a zombie quarantine, you know?

[01:27:02] That was a great, that's a banger of a movie.

[01:27:04] Oh yeah. Yeah. The first one's very good. Yeah. But yeah.

[01:27:08] Go ahead.

[01:27:10] Oh no, that was just going to say about ranking the five films.

[01:27:13] Okay. I was going to ask, have either of you seen, is it The Kingdom or Kingdoms?

[01:27:18] I think it's The Kingdom on Netflix. That's a Korea zombie, Korea, feudal Korea.

[01:27:24] Yeah. I think it's just called Kingdom. I haven't watched it yet though.

[01:27:27] Oh, it's so good. It's so good. And then they released this little standalone

[01:27:33] almost short, little movie. Is it a movie or is it a TV show kind of thing?

[01:27:37] And then I think two seasons and then it's like, okay, season three, let's go. This is so good.

[01:27:43] It's one of my favorite zombie genre series of all. I thought it was because it's all,

[01:27:50] there's so much politics and feudal politics going on and the air and the wife and the children and

[01:27:59] the standup leaders versus the not so great leaders village life. It just encompasses all

[01:28:05] of that kind of stuff with zombies. It's great. Anyway, that's awesome. All right. So power

[01:28:14] ranking. Yeah. So for me, Thunderdome is number five and I almost kind of, I almost wouldn't want

[01:28:24] to take Thunderdome out of the rankings because when I watched it last night, the thing that

[01:28:30] really occurred to me is this is a musical. It's the only thing that it's not a musical

[01:28:35] is that they're not singing, but otherwise the drama and they use music intensely.

[01:28:41] Maybe that's why I like it. They had Tina Turner and yeah, of course they're going to use her in

[01:28:46] the soundtrack. She was beating the scenery in that. I love her outfit. I love her. She's awesome,

[01:28:52] but it is so over the top melodramatic and it's very story. It's a very different film from all

[01:28:58] of the other preceding ones. So I almost want to say it doesn't belong in my power rankings,

[01:29:03] but that's why it's at five because it's just kind of standalone. And there's a good move.

[01:29:07] There's a lot of good stuff in there. It just is a little, I don't know. It's wacky.

[01:29:13] Then we'd have to go number four is Mad Max, the original film. It's a very slow, dry story and

[01:29:20] I think it's a really important sequel. I don't think if I were to say to people, go out and watch

[01:29:25] movies in this particular order, I would say almost watch Mad Max later in your watch order.

[01:29:31] Don't try to watch it first and then watch the progression. Watch Road Warrior and then go back

[01:29:36] maybe and watch Mad Max to get the start. And then because I didn't get a chance to see Fury

[01:29:45] Road before we did this podcast, I can't decide which is number two and number three, Furiosa or

[01:29:53] Fury Road. I don't know because I need a fresh take on Fury Road before I could rank the two.

[01:30:02] So they're right there together. And then of course for me, and it's a pure nostalgia pick,

[01:30:08] Road Warrior is the perfect gonzo George Miller, wacky, imagine early 80s, seeing somebody in a

[01:30:15] Mohawk. That's memorable characters, yeah.

[01:30:18] Absolutely humongous. They're just the iconography of the Mad Max world, the black leather armor,

[01:30:25] the sawed off shotgun. All of these things are just so entrenched in my memory that I'm making

[01:30:34] a pure... Say what you want to... The story is cohesive. It's very clear. It's very straightforward.

[01:30:40] So for all of those choices, it's my number one.

[01:30:44] Okay. What about you, Aaron?

[01:30:46] Well, so I'm almost completely the opposite as David here.

[01:30:50] Nice. Very cool.

[01:30:52] I would put Thunderdome at my number one, complete nostalgia pick. It was my first

[01:31:00] Mad Max movie. So blinded a little bit.

[01:31:03] Yeah, so there, Road Warrior is my first Mad Max. So yeah, I get it.

[01:31:06] Yeah. I would put Road Warrior at number two. Then I would actually put Furiosa right in the

[01:31:10] middle. I thought this was a really solid entry into the franchise. I put that at my number three.

[01:31:16] Then the first Mad Max and last is Fury Road for me.

[01:31:21] Yeah.

[01:31:21] Wow.

[01:31:22] That's fair.

[01:31:23] Wow. That's interesting.

[01:31:26] If I'm starting at the bottom, Mad Max, the original is the first one I saw, but it's at

[01:31:30] the bottom for the reasons we've discussed. Fury Road is second to last. It's maybe the

[01:31:38] most visually stunning, but it gave me kind of like the least. It gave me even less than,

[01:31:45] it holds together more than the original Mad Max, but it has less going on under the hood,

[01:31:51] if that makes sense. And then, okay, so in the middle, I'm going to put Thunderdome,

[01:31:58] which I would have ranked higher before the rewatch, but now I'm like, okay,

[01:32:01] I can admit the other films are better. And then, yeah, it's close for me between

[01:32:08] Road Warrior and Furiosa because I do think Road Warrior has a more satisfying,

[01:32:15] self-contained movie story. When I think of the characters, I think especially of the wolf boy

[01:32:23] and the pilot guy.

[01:32:26] Yes. Classic characters. Yeah. Feral child.

[01:32:29] Yeah. But Furiosa has the advantages of being more modern and doing things because of that way. But

[01:32:36] I think I'm going to put Furiosa second and Road Warrior first, and then Doomsday to rule them all.

[01:32:45] Good ranks. Cool. It's really interesting. Because we've all come to this franchise in

[01:32:51] these slightly different ways, and I love that the franchise can appeal to us for these different

[01:32:58] reasons. And I don't know, I really hope that George can make something. We need some editing

[01:33:03] on that, keep the story tighter. I don't know. That's my final summation thought. I don't know,

[01:33:09] Aaron, any wrap up where you are with the franchise?

[01:33:14] I would agree with that. I hope that we do get more entries, like you said,

[01:33:18] tighten it up just a little bit. But other than that, I'm hoping that they continue with this

[01:33:24] iffy with the perceived bad box office. But I think that there's some more interesting stories

[01:33:32] to tell. For sure. I think if it were short, slightly shorter, the box office would have done

[01:33:38] better because I think there are a lot of people who look at runtimes now and are like movies are

[01:33:42] just getting too long. And it is true. I do. I feel like it's this one was about the same run

[01:33:47] runtime as Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes. But Kingdom, I felt like it justified its runtime with

[01:33:53] a really solid story that took you on a whole journey, which this did to a certain degree,

[01:33:58] but not quite as much for me. So this one felt a lot longer. So it really depends.

[01:34:03] But filmmakers need to look at themselves hard in the mirror and ask the question more. Can I

[01:34:10] cut a little more? Yeah, I can say as a writer, it's very hard to cut your darlings. But yeah.

[01:34:17] Yeah. And that's why you have editors that are not you, right? That that's right. That can that

[01:34:23] can make those choices. Right. Yeah. And anecdotally, as a data point of one, I absolutely

[01:34:28] would have seen this on opening weekend if it were not the time commitment. So but I know there's a

[01:34:33] lot more going on in the industry as well. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come back.

[01:34:37] We've got some feedback that we want to consider and respond to. We've got a voicemail and a couple

[01:34:41] of other messages and then we'll talk about our programming schedule and what we've got going on.

[01:35:01] And we're back. So we've got some feedback that we want to consider. And Alicia, you got to actually

[01:35:08] have a mini meet with one of our listeners for Alisa. Yeah, she lives in the Netherlands. So

[01:35:15] we went to see Furiosa together. That's a lot of fun. Great. Great. Well, she sent us in a voicemail.

[01:35:21] So let's listen to that now. Hi, Laura. Alisa from the Hague in Holland. I'm a long time listener

[01:35:27] since the first ring of power pods. I saw Furiosa this past weekend. And now that I've had a few

[01:35:32] days to think about it, I'm calling him with some feedback. In general, I really enjoyed it. It

[01:35:36] visually sucks you in. There are parts in the middle, the bullet town section that got a bit

[01:35:41] confusing and slowed the pacing a bit. But if you let it wash over you, you'll get sucked right

[01:35:46] back in and caught up in the action. I think the first thing that struck me about the film was the

[01:35:50] artistry of the cinematography, which makes this film a spectacular and and spectacle as well as

[01:35:57] gorgeous film. Although I don't know if there's any controversy, but I really like the super

[01:36:01] saturated color and color palette. It might not be to everybody's taste since then. I've also read

[01:36:06] that the scenery was a bit CGI enhanced, but it does show what a beautiful result you can get.

[01:36:13] It didn't bother me at all. Additionally, I also like just how the use of color was integrated

[01:36:17] into the storytelling. For example, Dementus went from white to red to gray to black.

[01:36:24] Or when the camera focused on the red fruit in the beginning, it reminded me of Spielberg's use

[01:36:31] of the red to draw the audience's attention. For example, what were we to think about Furiosa

[01:36:36] reaching for that fruit? I want to discuss the acting and the characters, but before I do,

[01:36:41] I want to mention the mise en scene, the incredible props, costumes, and sets that all contributed to

[01:36:47] creating this amazing world. Everything was so rich with detail, which added another level

[01:36:53] to the visual experience and the storytelling and the world building. There was also an interesting

[01:36:58] style. I'm not sure if it was the way it was filmed or the way it was edited. It was also

[01:37:02] used in Fury Road. It created an almost comic book feel. I felt this the most during the action

[01:37:09] sequences. Every now and then there would be a frame that looked almost as if it was frozen

[01:37:14] within the chaos, or maybe a frame was taken out. I'm not sure exactly how it was done, but I really

[01:37:20] just loved it. And speaking of the action sequences, the one long sequence involving the

[01:37:27] road war with the rig, that was 15 minutes long. It used 200 stunt people and it took 78 days to

[01:37:35] film. That just blows me away. Switching back to the characters, firstly, I thought in general,

[01:37:40] the acting was wonderful. Both of the Furiosa actresses, Alea Brown, I could be saying that

[01:37:46] wrong, is the child Furiosa, and Anatella Joy, they were both very good. They had a heavy load

[01:37:53] as they needed to rely primarily on their physicality and the facial expressions,

[01:37:59] because they had so little dialogue. They both did an admirable job, and so much of it was done

[01:38:05] with those amazing eyes. But I do have to admit, the actor who held my interest the most was Chris

[01:38:11] Helmsworth and his portrayal of Dementus. We're so used to seeing him as the hero in the Marvel

[01:38:17] films and in general, and he's actually amazing as a villain. He played him on a lot of levels.

[01:38:23] There was even humor in there. But more importantly, even though we don't see it,

[01:38:27] we knew that he was a villain with a backstory and even a broken heart. In fact, you saw the

[01:38:35] choice of him wearing the stuffed bunny on his chest. You could see it as his carrying his ripped

[01:38:45] out heart, not on his sleeve, but literally, but carrying his heart outside for all to see.

[01:38:54] He's an interesting character, mostly because he's not just a two-dimensional villain. Even

[01:38:59] when we're introduced to him, although he's holding Furiosa as captive, he's also keeping her safe

[01:39:06] among the rogues in his group. And you start to see and you know that he is trying to replace

[01:39:14] and to use her to replace the loss of his own child. In the end, he even evokes a sort of

[01:39:21] parental pride when he sees what she's become and tries to link the two of them. You know,

[01:39:26] you've become just like me as any parent would do. So all in all, I think that the Dementus

[01:39:33] character and the Helmsworth portrayal was really one that I think I would say would be one of the

[01:39:40] high points of the film for me. Which also I mentioned the last scene, which was probably my

[01:39:45] favorite scene, the last scene with the two of them. That was just a point where it brought

[01:39:51] everything into focus and I could go on, but I think the feedback's getting a little bit long.

[01:39:57] So just a few points before I finish off. At that end scene, where once Furiosa had incapacitated

[01:40:04] Dementus, she cuts off the stuffed rabbit. And then you have to ask, why did she do that? If she

[01:40:10] hated Dementus, obviously she wanted revenge against him. Why did she take the rabbit?

[01:40:18] Could it hold any good memories? Why would she want it? Again, there's a thought. And another

[01:40:25] thing that I'm rolling around, it's never directly addressed. And although you could say it was

[01:40:30] treated subtly, although this film does nothing subtly, she loses her arm. Now that's obviously at

[01:40:37] that point you see that it's the culmination of her story of becoming the Furiosa

[01:40:44] we come to know later. But when she loses the arm, and it's also the arm with the tattoo. So

[01:40:51] what does that mean? Is there any significance in the fact that she lost

[01:40:56] the arm that had the way home? Although you know that she would have known that by heart,

[01:41:05] looking at it every single day, and she would have had it memorized in her head.

[01:41:10] Is there something that's being said also in the fact that she has now truly been cut off from who

[01:41:15] she was and ever going back? And is this something else that Dementus took from her? There's a lot

[01:41:22] more I could say, again about weaknesses plus and minuses. But I'll wrap it up here by saying

[01:41:28] it might not be a perfect film, but it is a good film. It's worth a watch. And I think it's a great

[01:41:33] addition to the Mad Max saga. Thanks, Alisa. That's great feedback. Really thoughtful. I think you're

[01:41:41] right in this that this movie provokes a lot of thinking. And wherever you end up on did I enjoy

[01:41:47] it or not? There's a lot of richness here. Alicia, anything that jumped out at you and Alisa's?

[01:41:55] Just a lot of really insightful points also about Dementus as you know, a father figure

[01:42:01] and the softer side to him. And one thing that sticks with me is what she asked about when Furiosa

[01:42:08] cut the bear off of him when I think she knew because I knew when Dementus went down at that

[01:42:13] moment, he obviously was playing fake, you know, he's playing dead. And I think she knew that as

[01:42:18] well. So, was she trying to provoke him? Or was there a sentimental move in this? Taking the bear?

[01:42:24] Yeah, the whole father daughter relationship is not something that we didn't actually get into.

[01:42:29] Because we have no idea what her real father was like. We just know her father.

[01:42:33] True. I think that stuffed animal was definitely some emotional comfort for her for the time that

[01:42:39] she was with Dementus. You see her holding on to it and it became more than just the toy Dementus

[01:42:47] gave her, it became this sort of emotional support little teddy bear for her. It was

[01:42:52] something, one of the rare good things from her time with Dementus' clan.

[01:42:58] Yeah, it's true. One of the other things that we didn't ever really dig into

[01:43:02] was the tree and what she does with Dementus at the end. What did you guys think of that?

[01:43:13] I know we touched on the vengeance revenge question a little bit, but was that as an

[01:43:18] ending for a villain? How did that grow on you?

[01:43:25] I really liked it. I actually have a little production note about that in the original

[01:43:30] concept art for Fury Road. When they were designing the Citadel, originally the gardens

[01:43:36] of the Citadel was supposed to be entirely dead bodies that were having crops grow out of them.

[01:43:42] So they took that concept from Fury Road and did that with Dementus in this movie.

[01:43:47] Okay.

[01:43:47] Interesting. Well, it makes sense to use that as a resource, right? To grow your crops.

[01:43:53] Yeah.

[01:43:53] And I like the symbolism of her choosing this because it is, on the one hand,

[01:43:58] it's a really horrible way to die. Respect to Bronn and the other green seers of the Song of

[01:44:07] Ice and Fire universe. But yeah, it just seems like a very, especially painful way to die.

[01:44:11] But at the same time, so it's vengeance. We talked about that. But at the same time,

[01:44:16] she's using him to make something from home grow where it wouldn't otherwise.

[01:44:23] So she is turning this death into something productive.

[01:44:26] And she's taking her trauma and creating something nourishing out of it.

[01:44:31] Yeah, that's an interesting point. That's a good one.

[01:44:33] All right, we've got three messages next up. We've got to start off. We've got

[01:44:39] Lore Master and Dunadan Extraordinaire, Adrienne. He says,

[01:44:45] Dearest Lorehounds, I wanted to get something in before recording,

[01:44:47] but I'm under a work deadline, so bullet points will have to do while you made it in time.

[01:44:51] Overall, Furiosa was good. Not great, not bad. A solid B minus effort from George Miller.

[01:44:59] What could have elevated that score and maybe its box office? Editing. The movie felt too long for

[01:45:05] what it eventually did. The story arcs are all there. They just need a nip and tuck. The big

[01:45:10] Australian knife, insert relevant 2024 Paul Hogan quote here. I'm not going to try to do my

[01:45:16] Australian accent. I don't want to offend. I've actually spent time in Australia and it doesn't

[01:45:20] go well when you try to imitate their accent and you do it poorly. Motivation. This is ultimately

[01:45:27] a revenge story in my humble opinion, and yet I didn't feel satisfied at the end. Sure, it was

[01:45:34] poetic and beautiful, and the line about making it epic? Chef's kiss. But that bloodlust we all

[01:45:40] want in revenge stories was unsatisfied, and the path to get there meandered so much even

[01:45:46] the poetry at the end was lost in a sea of how much longer is this movie? Sorry, I laughed because

[01:45:53] I read his thing before you said it. Which is my point too. By the time I got this great poetic

[01:46:00] ending, I was exhausted. Okay, that's all for now. Meeting beckons. Keep on, keep it on.

[01:46:07] And then he sent me a Rickroll gift because I made a comment about something that in case you

[01:46:15] know, you know, no, yeah. If you know, you know, I didn't know what the IYKYK meant. And so we had a

[01:46:23] funny joke on the discord about that and I felt Rickrolled. So appropriately so. Any thoughts,

[01:46:29] Aaron, on Adrian's email? Yeah, I mean, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but

[01:46:36] I completely agree with Adrian that could have been shorter. We, they needed to edit it down

[01:46:42] quite a bit more. Yeah, two hours minimum, like two hour maximum, like that. That's where it

[01:46:48] should have been. So agreed. All right. Next up is Abby. I thought that I just thought of

[01:46:55] that. I like to watch things in timeline order, even if the movies come out out of order. And

[01:47:02] now the end of this movie kind of ruins Fury Road. The only mystery about Fury Road is the fact that

[01:47:08] the women are in that war machine. So that was a thing that I had listed as something that didn't

[01:47:15] work for me and I forgot to mention it. What did you guys make of the credit scenes, the clip

[01:47:21] package that they put into the credit scenes from Fury Road? Did that work for you or not?

[01:47:26] I didn't feel it was necessary. I think that they could have just had the credits roll as normal.

[01:47:31] I think they felt a little bit pressured to maybe do the Marvel thing and have some post credit

[01:47:35] scenes or post credit pictures going on in the background.

[01:47:38] Well, I think it's cool. The one thing, okay, so this credit scene where they kind of recap Fury

[01:47:44] Road, that seems like- The whole movie, yeah.

[01:47:47] Yeah, that seems like, and now why am I even ever going to watch Fury Road again? But

[01:47:52] the one cool little Easter egg they put it in the credits is that little bird skull thing that

[01:47:59] what's his face from Fury Road had, the war boy who switched sides.

[01:48:04] Knox, I think?

[01:48:05] Yeah, Knox, yeah. They showed his little bird skull thing. Knox, you're right. It's Knox, yeah.

[01:48:12] So what does that mean?

[01:48:15] Yeah, good question. But yeah, I don't understand why they, anyway, again, editing. Editing was

[01:48:21] necessary. All right, next up is Abby. Abby just came out of the cinema opening day there. She

[01:48:28] lives in Japan. To be honest, I am not mad about this franchise. So not excited, mad being excited

[01:48:35] or interested. Well, the positives. It was great cinematography, amazing action scenes. Unlike

[01:48:40] Fury Road, it had a plot and a progression, more fleshed out characters. This is sure a movie to

[01:48:47] experience in theater on a big screen with the best sound and visuals. And that sound and visuals

[01:48:53] are the main selling points. I'd be interested to know how they make those shots where everyone's

[01:48:59] eyes are shiny like that. Good question. Probably in post. They probably do up a lot of whitening

[01:49:06] in post. Yeah, there is that one scene with Anya Taylor-Joy where her eyes are just piercing

[01:49:10] bright lights out of the dark. Question, is this supposed to be Australia? Yes,

[01:49:16] this is supposed to be Australia. Fun fact, I don't know, personal anecdote, fun fact,

[01:49:22] where's the line? That Road Warrior, the second movie, was filmed in an area called Mundy Mundy,

[01:49:29] which is near Broken Hill. And I actually spent some time out there. I actually worked on a ranch

[01:49:34] not far from Broken Hill. And I actually saw the Pursuit Interceptor before it got sold off and

[01:49:41] moved. We were driving through this town and I was like, wait a minute, that's the Pursuit car.

[01:49:45] Oh, cool. Yeah, as we drove by. But it's really like that out there. It's just dry scrub land and

[01:49:51] just goes on for miles and miles and miles. And Broken Hill is an interesting place because that's

[01:49:56] one of the places where opals are mined. And a lot of people live in Hobbit-style homes where

[01:50:02] they've dug into the hillsides and stuff and live inside of earthed out places because it's

[01:50:10] just kind of hot there. Anyway, continuing Abby's email, what didn't work for me particularly was

[01:50:18] the main cast. Oh, okay, interesting. Anya was okay if a bit too pouty at times. Hemsworth was

[01:50:24] just extremely annoying. Sorry if that was the attention it worked. Loved the young version

[01:50:30] of Furiosa and her mom. Tom Burke was excellent as Jack. As lately as I'm a bit bored by action

[01:50:36] flicks in general, at least it kept me awake almost to the end. Almost. It was a bit long,

[01:50:43] wasn't it? All right, so we have some detraction with Hemsworth and Anya Taylor-Joy. Maybe it was

[01:50:51] one of those things... Well, I don't mean to second guess Abby's criticisms, but I know if

[01:50:55] there is a movie that's long or not working for me, I'll tend to nitpick on things that maybe are

[01:51:01] normally gloss over. But I can...

[01:51:03] Yeah, but if they captivated her, she wouldn't feel it's so long. Although that seems to be

[01:51:07] the general agreement. Everyone thinks it's a bit long. Yeah.

[01:51:10] I think it's one thing a lot of people agree on is in this. Great.

[01:51:13] Yeah.

[01:51:14] All right, any thoughts on Abby's final thoughts?

[01:51:19] I'll disagree a little bit. I like Hemsworth's portrayal.

[01:51:22] Yeah, as we talked.

[01:51:23] But other than that, I completely agree with the criticism of the length again.

[01:51:30] And wrapping this up, SubZero on the Discord said,

[01:51:33] just saw it yesterday and really enjoyed it. I still like Fury Road better. All right,

[01:51:36] power ranking there. But this was a solid addition to the universe. Some thoughts?

[01:51:42] Surprise, surprise. The movie was a bit too long. I think it should have just been three chapters.

[01:51:47] I don't disagree with the chapter. I think if the chapters markers would have worked better if it

[01:51:51] had been not as many chapters. Right.

[01:51:55] Young Furiosa, Furiosa's rise to the ranks and becoming a badass and the climax. I did like her

[01:52:01] character development. The movie could have been more streamlined. The girl who played

[01:52:06] Young Furiosa was excellent. Okay, so another point that we can all agree on. It was too long

[01:52:11] and Young Furiosa, the actor was great. And I liked her more than Anya Taylor-Joy as adult Furiosa.

[01:52:19] Interesting. ATJ was fine, but didn't really pop for me. I would rank her third amongst the

[01:52:25] Furiosas that we've seen so far. Wow. Okay.

[01:52:29] Okay. All right. Continuing, I know some didn't like Hemsworth, but I thought he was a lot of fun.

[01:52:37] He was intentionally over the top cartoonish, a 2D comic book villain.

[01:52:42] Mad Max villains have always been about flair over substance. Dementus had plenty of flair.

[01:52:48] By the way, my wife couldn't get over the fake nose. She thought it looked distractingly fake.

[01:52:56] I didn't mind it, although I thought it was unnecessary.

[01:52:59] Same. Something we didn't talk about was

[01:53:01] the nose and certainly we had some nose controversy last year with Maestro.

[01:53:06] But then he was copying someone but then exaggerating it. But this is,

[01:53:12] I agree. I didn't think it was necessary, but it didn't bother me.

[01:53:16] Yeah. I noticed it when they, because we zoomed in on it when he turned his face

[01:53:20] and then after that, I kind of forgot about it.

[01:53:22] So clearly I'm not very observant because I didn't notice it at all.

[01:53:28] One thing I did notice, which Elisa mentioned in her voicemail was the color shift that Dementus

[01:53:36] goes through. I didn't realize he went from sort of gray to black. That was a really interesting

[01:53:40] comment. I noticed a couple of times with color, like the peach being very red and that kind of

[01:53:46] stuff. But I think it's really interesting that George was intentionally using color as part of

[01:53:51] his visual storytelling. And then Dementus in the white at the beginning with this purity of his,

[01:53:58] that was very striking. Although in Road Warrior, it's very funny too because the gas,

[01:54:04] the refinery people, crew, they're all in white hockey and lacrosse gear.

[01:54:10] It's like, okay, a little bit on the nose there.

[01:54:14] All right, Sub-Zero continues, as expected, the cinematography and score were bang on.

[01:54:20] It's the reasons why you have to see, have to see Capitalize to see Mad Max in a theater.

[01:54:26] Okay, big screen, small screen, we're pretty split here. A lot of people are definitely

[01:54:30] big screen proponents. It was great to see a lot of the side characters from Fury Road return for

[01:54:36] the prequel. I cheered when the creepy guitar player showed up. We saw that. And Tom Burke

[01:54:42] was great as Jack. I really liked him. Another universal point.

[01:54:46] Yeah, and then of course Immortan Joe's whole family and all of that weirdness.

[01:54:53] I don't know where the Mad Max saga goes from here, but I'm down for whatever comes next. Again,

[01:54:59] something else that I think we can all agree on, that we want to see some more from the franchise.

[01:55:05] Thanks everyone for writing in and sending in your voicemails. We always like to hear from

[01:55:11] the community. We are a very human-centered community here with the Lorehounds. Algorithms

[01:55:17] are tools, but I don't know. I don't think there's any substitute for human experience,

[01:55:22] sharing human experience to human experience. And I think that's something we like to pride

[01:55:27] ourselves on this podcast and in this community. Speaking of which, I think we can start to wrap

[01:55:35] it up here. If you are interested in supporting the community, then join us on Supercast or Patreon.

[01:55:43] Supercast we kind of prefer. We get a little bit better margin and it's a tool that's a little bit

[01:55:49] better built for podcasters. But I know Patreon is very easy and it's something that we're all

[01:55:53] very familiar with. Also consider that for the subscription price, you're getting great value

[01:56:01] where we're adding more features to the subscriber benefits. We've just launched a whole new second

[01:56:08] podcast, Alicia, with Elevenzies, which is a subscriber-only benefit. It's one of two...

[01:56:16] Yeah, it's a whole film review thing that we do where you guys get to...

[01:56:20] Alicia, John and I get to pick movies, present them to each other, and then you guys get to pick

[01:56:25] of the final three. And then we will talk about it. And we spent a good hour plus talking about

[01:56:32] Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. That was a really good conversation.

[01:56:36] So this month we have... What is it? We have Fifth Elements, we have Princess Bride,

[01:56:42] and we have everything everywhere all at once to vote on.

[01:56:45] There is a theme in those three movies. That's really interesting. The way that when it's

[01:56:50] presented boiled down like that, that's pretty good. Yeah, anyway, we're going to have a Patreon

[01:56:53] poll and Supercast poll up very soon for our subscribers to pick those movies.

[01:57:00] Last thing I'll say about it too is consider an annual subscription. Same on both Supercast and

[01:57:04] Patreon, same prices, same everything. But when you look at the value that you guys are getting

[01:57:10] over the time for the year, the amount of podcasts that we're putting out, it's a pretty

[01:57:14] awesome value. And annual subscriptions are a great way to lock that in. Again, you get early

[01:57:20] episodes, ad-free and all of that good stuff. Show guides, all the different show guides

[01:57:24] that we're putting together, Rings of Power for House of the Dragon. And as well, we have

[01:57:31] our Discord. Aaron, you're actually one of our mods on the Discord, one of our team members there.

[01:57:38] Would you like me to give some of the Discord talking points?

[01:57:40] Sure, you can punch it up. Yeah, let folks know about what we've got going on over there.

[01:57:44] Yeah, so over on Discord, we've got a pretty fun and welcoming community with channels set up for

[01:57:49] different shows and projects. It's a really great place to meet and converse with others

[01:57:53] who have similar interests. As David said, I am a part of the mod team over there along with

[01:57:58] Adrian, Brian8063, and some help from Josh the Black. And the link to that is going to be in

[01:58:04] the show notes and it's open to everyone, but there's some additional channels just for subscribers.

[01:58:10] Yeah, I think one of the great things about the Discord is that it's that virtual water cooler

[01:58:15] space for us. We get to talk and nerd out and it's not all the noise of Twitter or what's the

[01:58:25] Instagram version of it? Threads. Threads or Blue Sky. But we get a really great community to

[01:58:35] talk with each other and be humans and enjoy our hobbies. Because I think one of the things that

[01:58:41] binds us most in the Lorehounds is our love of television and movies and books even to a degree.

[01:58:47] And being able to have a space where we can talk with each other about stuff.

[01:58:53] Well, it's nice to be able to talk about stuff without having to worry about bad faith,

[01:58:57] sexist arguments or whatever.

[01:59:00] Because everyone over on the Discord in that community is just... Everyone's so willing to

[01:59:05] have friendly conversations and talk about the things that they love. No one's slinging mud at

[01:59:10] you for your opinion.

[01:59:11] Yeah, and even the things they don't like.

[01:59:13] Yeah, it's amazing that we have never had to once enforce any sort of...

[01:59:18] Okay, I'm knocking on all the wood right now.

[01:59:20] Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I think that's great because the value, the community itself holds

[01:59:29] and represents those values. And so even if we did have an incident, it would be an outlier.

[01:59:34] Somebody who just sort of was passing by and decided to throw some mud rather than

[01:59:39] our community as a whole just being so cool and supportive.

[01:59:44] Let's talk a little bit about our programming.

[01:59:47] Aaron, you want to mention what you've got going on with Radioactive Ramblings?

[01:59:52] Yeah, absolutely. So Radioactive Ramblings, we currently have a Fallout lore series going on,

[01:59:58] and those episodes are dropping every Monday. So tune in for that. We're just wrapping up our

[02:00:04] Origins episodes, and we're going to be getting into some of the mainline games and stories. So

[02:00:09] we're excited to cover that. Got some Elden Ring lore coming as well in the lead up to the DLC.

[02:00:14] And last but certainly not least, season four of The Boys coverage coming in June.

[02:00:19] I'm so glad that you guys stepped up to cover The Boys. We were happy to let that one go between

[02:00:28] House of the Dragon and the Acolytes. And of course, John and Alicia are continuing with Doctor

[02:00:35] Who. And then The Bear, we were just like, oh my God, it is.

[02:00:40] Time for a soda.

[02:00:42] And to have your help there is great. And then hopefully, John and I will be able to pop on

[02:00:47] every once in a while and chat with you guys about it.

[02:00:50] Absolutely.

[02:00:53] Alicia, we'll shift dust. Beacon 23 season two?

[02:00:59] Yeah, just wrapped up. So right before we recorded this, I recorded the season wrap up with Luke.

[02:01:06] But then there's also going to be an episode coming up in a couple of weeks where I'm

[02:01:12] interviewing at least Glen Mazzaro, the showrunner of season two, co-showrunner.

[02:01:17] Oh, great. Congratulations.

[02:01:18] Hopefully the other one as well. We're still working that out. And yeah, so we're going to

[02:01:23] do a wrap up with that and then we're getting back into Dune. We'll discuss details about

[02:01:30] starting with the book one piece at a time.

[02:01:33] Very cool. And of course, we'll talk about mean lore hounds programming because you've got...

[02:01:38] And yeah, and also the Star Wars Complete Canon Timeline.

[02:01:43] Yes.

[02:01:43] The Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast just finished the pre-Acolyte Blitz as I said earlier. So

[02:01:49] if you want like all the background on Star Wars history leading into the Acolyte,

[02:01:53] we just ended that with an episode that's a preview of the Acolyte, the characters and

[02:01:58] things to set the stage for the show that begins in just a couple days.

[02:02:04] I need to listen to that before we start. I've normally been saving the Canon Timeline

[02:02:10] for house chores where I can just, you know, I've got a lot of stuff to do and I can just,

[02:02:16] you know, give my brain that fun enjoyment to learn the timeline a little bit more.

[02:02:22] It's been my Metro listen recently.

[02:02:25] Oh, good.

[02:02:26] Yes.

[02:02:27] Yeah.

[02:02:28] I really like too how you're approaching it and you're kind of playing with the structure

[02:02:32] of podcasts themselves a little bit and the way that you're ordering things.

[02:02:36] So yeah.

[02:02:36] Yeah. So check out, if you're not familiar, then there's a short start here episode at

[02:02:42] the top of the podcast. It's only 17 minutes on normal speed, which I listen on double.

[02:02:47] But do you really do 2x?

[02:02:50] Yeah, I do 2x for pretty much everything.

[02:02:52] I can't do more than 1.5.

[02:02:53] Okay.

[02:02:55] Sometimes I have to go back and like slow it down to catch a word someone said.

[02:03:00] Right.

[02:03:00] Yeah. But anyway, that lays out this experiment that I'm doing in form with the podcast.

[02:03:06] Yeah.

[02:03:07] Making the timeline.

[02:03:09] All right. What else we got? Rings and rituals. Marilyn Arpiquila, our favorite Tolkien scholar

[02:03:13] and her colleague, Dr. Sarah Brown at Signum University are doing an analysis of season

[02:03:19] one of Rings of Power through the lens of ritual. They just released, I think, episode

[02:03:25] 9 Udun, which is a really good one. So check that out.

[02:03:29] We also have Properly Howard movie reviews with Steve and Anthony.

[02:03:33] They are doing their season. They go by seasons.

[02:03:36] Sort of they have a thematic season and they're doing Felonies and Fugazes and it has been a riot.

[02:03:42] They've covered Point Break, Shakedown, Tango and Cash, Pulp Fiction, Gross Point Blank.

[02:03:48] They got a bunch more coming. So check them out.

[02:03:50] They usually drop on Mondays.

[02:03:52] And then with the Lorehounds main feed, we are stepping in and John and I are about to record

[02:04:02] episodes, a recap of season one of House of the Dragon and episodes nine and 10.

[02:04:08] And then we're going to be doing that episode by episode. Alicia, you and John are covering

[02:04:13] the Acolytes. And that starts this week. So that's going to be exciting.

[02:04:18] And then we've got the boys at the end of June. We just got news that Pachinko season two

[02:04:24] is coming. Yay, finally. At the end of summer. Rings of Power at the end of summer. So it's a

[02:04:31] lot. Stay tuned and we're going to have a good one. Lorehound shout outs. Alicia,

[02:04:37] do you want to give a shout out to our Discord server boosters?

[02:04:40] Sure. So thank you to our Discord server boosters who make

[02:04:44] a more fun and functional place. And that would be Narls, Aaron K., Tilly the Thriller,

[02:04:51] Dork of the Ninjas, Doof71 and CaptainJinji56.

[02:04:55] And our Loremasters. Hey, you want to do a split one? Maybe we'll split it at 19. I'll go up to

[02:05:01] 19. We've never done this before. So we'll give it a try. Samartian, Michael G., Michelle E.,

[02:05:07] David W., Brian P., Nick W., S.C., Peter O.H., Bettina W., Adam S., Nancy M., Doof71,

[02:05:14] Brian8063, Frederick H., Sarah L., Garrett C., Eric F., Matthew M., Sarah M.

[02:05:21] DJ Miwa, Andra B., Kwong U., JediJediBob, Nathan T., Alex V., Aaron T., SubZero, Aaron K.,

[02:05:29] Dali V., Mothership61, Narls, and Adrienne, always may he be last.

[02:05:37] Thank you all so very much for your support. Those are our top tier subscribers, our Loremasters.

[02:05:42] Thank you to everyone who subscribes. Thank you to everyone who listens. No matter how you listen

[02:05:47] and no matter what you can, you know, whether you subscribe or not, we don't mind. We're just

[02:05:51] glad that you're here with us. Join us on the Discord. And Aaron, thanks so much for being with

[02:05:55] us today. Thank you guys for having me. This was a fun conversation. Yes, it was. Yeah. And Alicia,

[02:06:01] I'll catch you on the next one. The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds.

[02:06:07] You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com contact.

[02:06:13] Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the lorehounds.

[02:06:18] Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any

[02:06:22] employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.