Pachinko - Seasons 1 & 2 - Part 3 of 3

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[00:00:27] Ich bin David.

[00:00:49] Und ich bin Alicia.

[00:00:50] Und wir sind die Lorehounds, hier zu walken Sie durch Osaka Noodle Stand Economics.

[00:00:56] Welcome zu Part 3 of our Deep Dive into the first 2 Seasons of Pachinko on Apple TV+.

[00:01:03] Last time we went so deep that we only got partway through the second season

[00:01:08] after the first time going so deep that we only went through the first season.

[00:01:12] And so we're back for lucky number 3 to give the rest of season 2 its proper due.

[00:01:18] And this was supposed to be a one shot.

[00:01:20] Right.

[00:01:20] That was your original plan.

[00:01:22] And of course, we're joined by Nate Ledbetter,

[00:01:26] Japanese historian, expert and Princeton PhD candidate.

[00:01:31] Nate, welcome back.

[00:01:32] How are you doing?

[00:01:32] I'm doing great and thrilled to be back.

[00:01:35] Cool.

[00:01:36] Yeah, we're living up to our name here in terms of the Lorehounds and to our normative culture

[00:01:41] of being underestimating our projects.

[00:01:45] But I think it just goes to the point that we are so moved, all three of us are so moved by this show,

[00:01:51] that it would seem to be an injustice if we didn't go super far into this television show.

[00:02:02] So, yeah.

[00:02:03] Oh, I was just going to say, I mean, you know, I think part of the appeal to it, at least for me, is the layers that this show has.

[00:02:13] And so I think, you know, if we're going to do like a podcast kind of thing where we're talking about it and kind of unpacking it,

[00:02:21] it behooves us to really, you know, dig into those layers for the audience.

[00:02:27] Right, right.

[00:02:28] Yeah.

[00:02:28] And I can tell, well, we don't want to do any spoilers for our top 10 list coming at the end of the year, but the community feels the same as us.

[00:02:38] Oh, that's good.

[00:02:39] That's nice.

[00:02:40] It's nice to be in sync with the community.

[00:02:42] Well, let's do some quick overview of the series.

[00:02:47] Again, this is on Apple TV Plus, created by Su Hu, and it's based on the novel by Min Jin Lee.

[00:02:54] The second season, and they're talking three or four to wrap up the whole storyline.

[00:03:00] Is that right, Alicia?

[00:03:01] Yes.

[00:03:02] I mean, yeah, I've seen both.

[00:03:04] It talks about a lot.

[00:03:05] Okay.

[00:03:06] I think, I hope though, that just they're clear about it either way, you know, if it's three, tell them this is three.

[00:03:13] So they have a proper chance to wrap it up.

[00:03:15] Right, right.

[00:03:16] Because the story, yeah, these storytellers will do the work that they need regardless of whether it's three or four.

[00:03:21] So, yeah.

[00:03:23] And again, do check out our part one and part two in the feed.

[00:03:28] And today we're going to be covering season two from 1951 and the 1989 timeline.

[00:03:35] I'm just laughing because all the different threads of this stuff.

[00:03:39] Plus, we have a lot of community feedback.

[00:03:41] So we want to make sure that we have some time to address all of those things.

[00:03:46] And thank you everyone who did send in feedback.

[00:03:50] So, from here on out, this is full spoilers for everything that's been on air.

[00:03:56] And if you've not caught up yet, you know, you can maybe kind of stagger your listening if you want.

[00:04:00] And if you haven't read the books, I like how Alicia has put parentheses yet in her notes here.

[00:04:08] No fear.

[00:04:09] We're coming for you.

[00:04:10] We're not going to talk about the book.

[00:04:13] We're just going to talk about what we've seen on screen.

[00:04:15] And let's get right into it.

[00:04:18] So, Alicia, do you want to start to give us a little setup for our timeline talk?

[00:04:23] Right.

[00:04:24] So, we're going to open in 1950, Osaka.

[00:04:28] And we're going to talk about the back half of the flashback part of the season.

[00:04:33] It's very complicated how they do the timelines.

[00:04:36] Again, they weave the 50s in this part of the season and 89 together.

[00:04:42] But we're going to talk about them separately.

[00:04:44] But I know Nate had some things to say about the backdrop of the Korean War at this time that's going to play a role in this part of the timeline.

[00:04:52] So, Nate, I was wondering if you could tell us what was going on with the Korean War in 1980.

[00:04:58] So, to just back up just a little bit and remind people of the history, after World War II or as World War II ended, as a matter of fact, the Soviet Union, which had a non-aggression pact with Japan, decided that it was going to go back on that and invaded.

[00:05:21] And that was going to go back on August 8th of 1945.

[00:05:25] So, right in between the dropping of the two atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there's also this invasion by the Soviet Union.

[00:05:36] And incidentally, that's probably, if not equal, maybe even more so a reason that the Japanese decided to surrender at that point because they had been trying to negotiate surrender through the Soviets as a quote-unquote neutral party.

[00:05:52] And they were no longer a neutral party.

[00:05:55] So, that turned things against them.

[00:05:58] Anyway, with that, the Americans and the Soviets, much like in Europe, both took control of parts of Korea, the Korean Peninsula.

[00:06:13] And the border between their spheres of control ended up becoming what we know of as North Korea and South Korea today.

[00:06:25] Both set up governments favorable to them with the claim that they were the government of all of Korea.

[00:06:34] And then that kind of, as we go forward towards 1950, it kind of settles into this whole conflicting sides of a very localized version of the Cold War.

[00:06:51] And then in June of 1950, June 25th, 1950, the North Koreans, with the material support of the Soviet Union, invade South Korea to try to unify the peninsula.

[00:07:09] So, where this plays into our story is obviously most of our characters, the family that we're following is Koreans resident in Japan.

[00:07:19] Right.

[00:07:20] And from various places in Korea, but now all together as Koreans in Japan.

[00:07:27] Right.

[00:07:27] So, Sunja is from South Korea, but her husband and her brother and sister-in-law are from North Korea.

[00:07:36] Correct. Right.

[00:07:38] You know, I never really took that into account in the storyline.

[00:07:41] So, that's really interesting.

[00:07:43] They mention it, but I didn't make it a significant marker.

[00:07:46] But anyway, great.

[00:07:48] Another layer, as you were talking about layers.

[00:07:51] So, yeah.

[00:07:51] As we go through the story, and I think we'll get to this, but Noah is taking his exam.

[00:07:59] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:00] And they do some interesting work with the clock to show you that the time that he's taking the exam is the exact time that things start happening for the war.

[00:08:12] Like, he's taking it on June 25th.

[00:08:15] Oh, okay.

[00:08:16] Yeah.

[00:08:17] And it's basically sinking the time so that he's taking his exam at the exact time that North Korean tanks are rolling into South Korea.

[00:08:26] Wow.

[00:08:26] That's wild.

[00:08:27] The showrunners are just – they're so tuned into the history.

[00:08:31] It's amazing.

[00:08:33] Yeah.

[00:08:33] Well, so, I mean, obviously we're going to get to this as a plot point later, but just wondering why would one of our characters this season want to go fight for North Korea?

[00:08:46] Because obviously from our perspective today, that's difficult to understand.

[00:08:49] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:08:51] So, and this is, again, kind of just to reiterate David's point just now, this is where the show does such a good job of showing these complications.

[00:09:03] It's not simple.

[00:09:05] We have a character, Mr. Kim, who we've talked about already in his relationship with Han Su and his relationship with Kyung Hee.

[00:09:17] And we see in the episodes here where we're looking at this, he's kind of at a loss as to what to do.

[00:09:26] You know, he has these feelings for Kyung Hee.

[00:09:28] He's kind of dissatisfied with his role, you know, being Han Su's muscle.

[00:09:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:09:35] And so he ends up kind of running into these – I don't know if you'd call them demonstrations or like meetings or whatever where there are Koreans who are talking about – you know, they're talking politics.

[00:09:52] They're talking about, you know, the need to liberate Korea from the American occupation, which is how they see it.

[00:10:05] So obviously these are people who are sympathetic to North Korea.

[00:10:10] And –

[00:10:10] So basically the issue is that Americans are – they think the Americans have too much influence on South Korea.

[00:10:17] Yeah. Yes. Well, and also they are probably – they probably have communist sympathies, leftist sympathies because, you know, these are the people who are working class.

[00:10:30] This is a time even in Japan where the socialists and the communists have an opportunity.

[00:10:39] They're organizing through labor unions and so forth because, you know, the right-wing oppressive imperialist Japanese government is down, right?

[00:10:50] Like has been disassembled by the Americans.

[00:10:55] And, you know, these sorts of things like labor unions, et cetera, are being encouraged.

[00:11:00] At least initially during the occupation.

[00:11:02] So there's a lot of this kind of agitation and organization within Japan, you know, even in the Japanese population in terms of, you know, what do we want democracy to be?

[00:11:14] What do we want moving forward?

[00:11:16] And because the socialists and the communists had been so persecuted under the old wartime administration, they kind of had like some cachet.

[00:11:26] You know, it was like, well, we clearly weren't responsible for the war, right?

[00:11:32] So they had a brief moment of popularity and ability to do things.

[00:11:39] So, you know, the point being that all of this is going on in Japan at this time.

[00:11:43] Well, even when we see, you know, with Mr. Kim, even within the Korean population, this is being discussed and talked about as an idea that they can, you know, if they lean this direction politically, then that's an avenue for Korean independence and so forth.

[00:12:05] So I think that is kind of the motivating factor as to why, because I think it says in the show that Mr. Kim is not himself from what we would consider, you know, what would become North Korean territory.

[00:12:18] He's from the southern half of Korea, but it's not a black and white geographic thing so much as it is, you know, where do your ideas and political, you know, values lie?

[00:12:31] And if you're from the, you know, lower working class, then you may be more sympathetic to, you know, a leftist ideal, or at least how it's being represented in the propaganda being put out, right?

[00:12:47] So he kind of, so that's this, that's what he's being told and internalizing.

[00:12:54] Right.

[00:12:54] Him to go over, you know, he, he's not looking to support the southern government, which is supported by the United States.

[00:13:03] He, he, he sees that as just another occupation.

[00:13:07] Right.

[00:13:08] And then, and it's interesting if you look at Japan's population of Koreans who stay in Japan in the post-war period, many of them, whether they were geographically from the North or not, identify more closely with North Korea.

[00:13:25] Hmm.

[00:13:26] Hmm.

[00:13:27] Probably in large part because as, you know, they were brought over during the war as laborers, they're kind of, you know, lower, uh, uh, social class.

[00:13:36] And so they, you know, the, the ideas of, uh, populist revolution or, you know, equality for all and, and so forth kind of resonate with them.

[00:13:48] Um, so there were actually, um, and there actually still is a, uh, an organization called Chosun Soren, which started out as like a, a Koreans in Japan, uh, neighborhood organization, but was very quickly, uh, became tied to the North Korean government.

[00:14:07] And was, you know, uh, receiving backing from the North Korean government and using, um, North or Japan was a major source of currency and, and, and wealth for North Korea because the Koreans in Japan belonged to this organization with, they would donate money to.

[00:14:27] And then that money would go back to North Korea.

[00:14:30] Hmm.

[00:14:32] You know, and, and so that's kind of the idea, like, as we talked in the past about pachinko parlors.

[00:14:36] Right.

[00:14:37] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:38] Things that make a lot of money.

[00:14:39] A lot of that money was then funneled.

[00:14:41] Back to North Korea.

[00:14:43] Yeah.

[00:14:44] Back to, yeah, exactly.

[00:14:45] Okay.

[00:14:46] And.

[00:14:47] There's a lot, a lot there.

[00:14:49] So sticking on the business side, you know, you, you, we mentioned Mr. Kim and he works with Honsu, best character.

[00:14:58] But you have some notes here about, we get some insight into, we know Honsu is involved in, you know, black market trades and we get some, uh,

[00:15:06] insight into a methamphetamine that he's trading.

[00:15:10] Yes.

[00:15:11] So can you tell us more about that?

[00:15:13] Yeah.

[00:15:13] So one of the things that, that I, I, I picked up on, there's a scene in episode five where he's, uh, having people move boxes of, uh, something called Philippon.

[00:15:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:34] It's labeled Philippon.

[00:15:38] I can't remember.

[00:15:40] And then the Latin words, you know, fill like to love and opus work.

[00:15:46] Right.

[00:15:46] So the idea was, it's a drug that enables you to work, um, you know, by keeping you up.

[00:15:56] I mean, I'm, I'm sitting here drinking coffee so that I can function.

[00:15:59] Right.

[00:15:59] Uh, if I were on methamphetamine, I'd probably be done with my dissertation by now.

[00:16:03] Uh, my heart.

[00:16:05] No guarantee whether it'd be good or not.

[00:16:06] Um, I was just reading a thread in our Dune, uh, uh, chat on our discord and people are talking about spice and other, you know, drugs that people use to enhance their productivity.

[00:16:19] So, so interestingly, you know, methamphetamine was used pretty much by all militaries, including the United States, uh, during World War II as a way to keep, uh, their, you know, military soldiers, pilots, workers, et cetera.

[00:16:35] Um, you know, awake and, and moving, I think, uh, particularly in, uh, air forces for pilots who were on long flights.

[00:16:44] It was something that was, uh, encouraged at the time.

[00:16:48] Uh, because it, you know, gave that, you know, I know in particular that the, the Germans used it quite a lot, um, as did the Japanese.

[00:16:57] I mean, imagine being a gunner and a bomber where you're just writing for hours on end in the back and the cold, but yet you've got to be, you've got to stay sharp and look for intercepting fighters and things like that.

[00:17:09] Exactly.

[00:17:10] So, um, so certainly, you know, that's something that there's a wartime stock of that now it's no longer wartime.

[00:17:18] But it happens to you can make money from.

[00:17:22] Honsu apparently has acquired this in his, uh, uh, you know, in his dealings and is.

[00:17:31] So I think it's an interesting that we get this little insight into, okay, this is how Honsu has money and power.

[00:17:39] Uh, is that he's, he's not only trading, like we, I think we get a scene later where he's, uh, where they talk about him running black market stuff through the U S occupation forces.

[00:17:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:50] But this is also something that he's got going on the side.

[00:17:53] That's probably even more lucrative because it's, you know, narcotics.

[00:17:57] Yeah.

[00:17:58] So you thought that this was just a show about a family, a feel good show about a family who's surviving over time.

[00:18:05] And guess what?

[00:18:05] You just got a history lesson in illegal narcotics trade in Japan and Korea.

[00:18:10] Well, I think, I think the wonderful thing about what the show is, it does is that it shows us the lengths that people have to go, had to go through.

[00:18:20] To survive.

[00:18:20] To survive.

[00:18:21] Yeah.

[00:18:22] And to make, uh, a place for themselves.

[00:18:25] You know, whether we're talking about that or whether we're talking about, you know, Sunja's, uh, kimchi sales or, you know, we talked last time about her doing some illegal bootlegging.

[00:18:36] Right.

[00:18:37] Right.

[00:18:37] Whatever.

[00:18:38] And none of these people, well, okay.

[00:18:41] Honsu sometimes, but, but for the majority of these people, we don't look at them as, you know, evil or bad or, you know, caricatures.

[00:18:49] They're doing what they have to do.

[00:18:51] Right.

[00:18:51] Yeah.

[00:18:52] Right.

[00:18:52] And I think this continues even, even as we go, we'll, we'll see, you know, the entry of, uh, certain characters into things like the gambling trades.

[00:19:02] Right.

[00:19:03] And so forth.

[00:19:04] And it's like, okay, yeah, it's sketchy, but there's a reason why this is what's open to them.

[00:19:10] Right.

[00:19:10] I have to, I have, there's a really weird outside the line sort of, uh, comparison.

[00:19:15] But when you started talking about pilots taking stimulants for whatever reason, because, because me, because Lord Hounds, my brain went to Battlestar Galactica, the reboot by Ronald Moore.

[00:19:25] Sure.

[00:19:26] And in that there's a episode where the pilots are having to take stimmies and, you know, stay up and it's got all these consequences.

[00:19:34] But then as you're saying about the black market, gray market trades that happen in these crisis situations.

[00:19:42] And in general, there's a whole bunch of arcs in the Battlestar Galactica as well about the illegal trade and what's going on in, on these, on the different ships where all the people are.

[00:19:53] And it just makes me think about the fact that that kind of market force is always going to be there.

[00:20:02] And, and the more illegal you make it, and I'm not arguing any one thing or another, I'm just trying to observe some sociological facts, which is the, the more governments crack down on certain things, the more it seems to intensify and still create.

[00:20:18] So there's a, people will always want to trade in the things that they want to trade in.

[00:20:23] Yeah.

[00:20:23] And, and how far do you make it legal or illegal intensifies the economic potency of it, I guess you could say.

[00:20:32] The upsides, that sort of gambling instinct that we have.

[00:20:35] Well, if I can just make this one score, well, if you got this whole load of amphetamines and it's illegal, but damn, I can make a lot of money.

[00:20:42] And there's a lot of people right now and things are a little bit chaotic.

[00:20:46] It just kind of makes sense as a survival strategy.

[00:20:48] But then that, as we were talking about in Dune, once you start to acquire power, there's a tendency to hold on to that power.

[00:20:57] Well, I think that, yeah.

[00:20:58] Go ahead.

[00:20:59] No, as I say, I think that's a key difference between Sunja and Honsu because Honsu, you know, we saw that he almost went off to the U.S. to be a tutor and to help a kid cheat, but whatever.

[00:21:11] You know, it's still kind of underhanded.

[00:21:15] But then, you know, his circumstances changed and he ended this, entered this crime life and he just got so deep into it.

[00:21:25] And then Sunja at one point, you know, she's like, okay, I have reached the point.

[00:21:30] I feel like my only option is crime, the bootleg wine, obviously much less than Honsu does.

[00:21:36] But the difference between them is Honsu will never stop doing what he does.

[00:21:41] And Sunja, the moment that she can stop, she's setting up her noodle stall and she's getting back to planning her future restaurant.

[00:21:49] Right.

[00:21:50] I do have to point out, apparently, compared to the book, she's more emotional in the show and the book says she went decades without crying.

[00:21:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:58] But I still think she's quite stoic.

[00:22:00] But were you guys, David, were you excited to see that Sunja had not only recovered a kimchi stand, but had a whole noodle stand?

[00:22:08] Right.

[00:22:09] And like a fixed one, too, you know, not just her with a wheelbarrow.

[00:22:12] Which, and it plays an interesting role in terms of, oh, school fees versus opening the new restaurant kind of thing.

[00:22:19] And I think I talked about this a little bit before on the last podcast, is the importance of food.

[00:22:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:28] And then I'm thinking now about how food, and being a purveyor of food and selling food, and especially quick food, right?

[00:22:36] And it seems to be a part of the culture of Japan, neat, like noodle shops.

[00:22:41] Like, you know, I have to bring up Tempopo.

[00:22:46] It's a defining movie for me.

[00:22:48] Yeah.

[00:22:48] Go ahead.

[00:22:48] But I have to point out one thing about Japan, is that it's considered rude to walk and eat at the same time.

[00:22:54] Right.

[00:22:54] So you come in, and you sit down, and you scarf your noodles, and then you get back on the subway.

[00:22:58] Like, they have noodle shops.

[00:23:00] The movies tell me that there are noodle shops in the mass transit station.

[00:23:05] Yeah.

[00:23:06] Or train platforms in various locations.

[00:23:08] Yes.

[00:23:08] I mean, even Michelin star.

[00:23:10] I've had more than one bowl of food on that one.

[00:23:12] Yeah.

[00:23:13] And so the idea that for this family and for Sunja, food is both this deep, soulful connection to her family in the past, as well as her family in the future.

[00:23:28] But it's also their means of economic survival.

[00:23:31] Yeah.

[00:23:31] And she tried the bootlegging thing, and it didn't work out.

[00:23:35] Right.

[00:23:35] So she stayed legal and continued to do that.

[00:23:39] And it just, like cutting hair, being an auto mechanic in the time of cars or whatever, there are certain jobs and certain economies that are always going to be there.

[00:23:51] And she found that little niche in that little pocket, and she was actually quite good at making the food, which made her somewhat economically successful.

[00:23:59] Enough so that when they are grown up, when her kids are grown up, well, at least one, Musasu, he's able to start pachinko parlors because she probably had enough seed capital to get started.

[00:24:11] Right.

[00:24:12] And yeah, we got a reference this season that she had a restaurant before because she had the money from the restaurant.

[00:24:17] So she eventually gets there, although obviously it's not a straight line.

[00:24:23] That's why we need season three.

[00:24:25] Yes, why we need season three and four.

[00:24:27] Just renew them both at the same time.

[00:24:29] Exactly.

[00:24:30] Just say, this is the layout, and then you can really let them.

[00:24:33] Anyway.

[00:24:34] But yeah, because their great hope for their family is, at this point, resting on Noah, her oldest son.

[00:24:42] And this is kind of also one of the most wholesome parts of the season for me.

[00:24:46] You have everyone at the market, and everyone's so invested in his exam to get into Waseda University.

[00:24:57] So first of all, Nate, Waseda University, prestigious private university in Tokyo?

[00:25:04] So Waseda is in Tokyo.

[00:25:08] And one thing that I should briefly explain is that in the US, we have this idea, mostly coming from the Ivy League and whatever, that private universities are, at an elite level, are more prestigious than public universities.

[00:25:26] It's not quite the same in Japan.

[00:25:28] It's actually, sometimes it's the reverse, because your big national universities like Tokyo University or Kyoto University are considered the top level.

[00:25:37] But Waseda is one of a handful of private universities that is on that level, so to speak.

[00:25:45] Waseda and Keo and a couple others, Waseda was founded in the Meiji period and becomes this kind of – I mean, in essence, it functions in much the same way as a Yale or a Princeton or other places in the US.

[00:26:11] That feed into the elites, particularly the political elites.

[00:26:20] So if you were to tell somebody in Japan even today that, oh, I went to Waseda, it would be like, oh, that's so impressive.

[00:26:30] So yeah, I imagine for a Zainichi Korean in 1950, a Korean who's living in Japan at this time, to be able to get into that would be a life-changing affair, right?

[00:26:46] Right.

[00:26:46] And not just for you, but the opportunity that that represents for your entire family in a way that I think it's hard for us to imagine any more in the United States.

[00:27:04] Because it's definitely – I mean, certainly that kind of thing still exists, but we hear it's less and less of a thing that we hear about.

[00:27:13] Right.

[00:27:13] Whereas, I think definitely for the family here, it's – I mean, what I'm saying is the care and the effort and the hopes that they pin on this are all –

[00:27:32] Right.

[00:27:32] Right.

[00:27:33] Like in accord, right?

[00:27:34] It makes sense that this is how they would feel about it.

[00:27:37] And it makes sense that Noah would feel pressure.

[00:27:39] Right.

[00:27:40] Yeah, and we see that things are – after the war, things are back to their old ways.

[00:27:45] Like that friend that he had rescued when they were hiding out in the countryside is now ignoring him at the exam again.

[00:27:52] So we're back to the whole racism shtick back on.

[00:27:57] But yeah, this is why we see like the family is so excited when he gets in and then he finds out – this is always a nasty surprise of American universities too –

[00:28:12] And so Sun-ja ends up putting aside her restaurant plans again to set up a candy – a second candy stall that she's going to do near the train station so she can get another income going.

[00:28:26] And – but meanwhile, yeah, Noah, he's heading off.

[00:28:31] We'll soon find out under the watchful eye of his biological father, Hansu, who gives him the watch that we've been tracing, referring to in the previous episodes.

[00:28:40] The watch is still in play.

[00:28:43] Well, and it's funny because, you know, Sun-ja does that and of course she's freaking out about the costs and so forth.

[00:28:52] All the while we know that Hansu would just simply write the check.

[00:28:58] Seriously.

[00:28:59] But neither of them –

[00:29:01] Yes, neither of them –

[00:29:03] Neither Sun-ja nor Noah want that.

[00:29:05] He would walk into the admissions office and have a nice little chat with the admitting officer about his son attending school.

[00:29:13] It was quite an interesting scene where Noah and Sun-ja walk in for him to check in and they're like, oh, it's you.

[00:29:21] Here's all your luggage.

[00:29:22] And they're like, what luggage?

[00:29:24] What are you talking about?

[00:29:25] And it's all the stuff that Hansu had had delivered for him.

[00:29:29] Right.

[00:29:29] Yeah.

[00:29:30] So he just – I mean, Hansu will insert himself at any point.

[00:29:33] At this point, Noah still doesn't even know he's his biological father and it's like, come on.

[00:29:38] Come on, put some scare quotes around that word no.

[00:29:41] Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:42] He's in denial.

[00:29:43] He's in denial.

[00:29:44] Yeah, he totally is in denial.

[00:29:45] But I know, David, you found it quite emotional watching Sun-ja pack up Noah and see him off.

[00:29:52] Yeah, it was interesting.

[00:29:53] It really hit me in that moment because my personal experience and then thinking as a parent, thinking about my child's experience.

[00:30:05] I'm not going to depend upon my daughter for my economic well-being when I get old.

[00:30:13] Nor do my parents need me to help provide.

[00:30:18] I mean, we're doing some social emotional stuff and you show up and you do some handyman things, mount the new TV on the wall, whatever.

[00:30:26] But their financial well-being is not dependent upon my financial well-being.

[00:30:34] And I think that that's a real fundamental change that society went through because when we see that, as you mentioned, the community coming around him, around Noah, and it's not just Noah's success or his immediate family's success, but it's a success for the whole community.

[00:30:55] Because it represents this economic opportunity for one of their, quote-unquote, their own to achieve and move forward and move up.

[00:31:04] And if he moves up, the trickle, literally trickle down will, you know, as he affects his family's economic fortunes, that will have a sphere of economic influence in their neighborhood and in their businesses and in all the things.

[00:31:20] So literally, Noah's success is the community's success here in a way that it's going to be different when, you know, if our daughter chooses to go to college and she gets accepted to wherever she wants to get accepted to, that's going to be like, hey, that's your triumph.

[00:31:37] That's so excited.

[00:31:38] We're so proud.

[00:31:38] We're so happy for you.

[00:31:40] It doesn't represent anything for me economic.

[00:31:43] It's purely about that individual achieving something that they want to achieve, as opposed to the community going, damn, we are going to notch up as a whole ever so slightly to get, you know, in this literally shanty town that we're living in.

[00:32:01] We now have economic opportunities that we could never even dream of.

[00:32:06] You know, like the potentials are like, whoa.

[00:32:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:10] So if I could jump in on that.

[00:32:12] Yeah, please.

[00:32:13] One of the things that we have to remember is that this is, in essence, an immigration story, an immigrant story.

[00:32:21] Yeah.

[00:32:22] And so for, you know, those of us who, you know, grew up as white as I am in the United States, it may, you know, I'm completely resonating with everything you're saying, David.

[00:32:40] But like, I think, you know, where I live now here in New Jersey, like my apartment complex is very heavily South Asian.

[00:32:48] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:49] And our school, our kids' school district is very heavily South Asian and East Asian and recent immigrants.

[00:32:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:57] You know, first generation, second generation.

[00:32:59] And so, you know, often we will see kind of the whole stereotypical tiger mom emphasis being put on kids to get to those higher levels of education because-

[00:33:13] So they can provide.

[00:33:14] So they can provide and also be considered a success.

[00:33:18] Right.

[00:33:18] A status.

[00:33:19] Yeah.

[00:33:19] And so I think that is something that's also at play here is because, you know, you have the immigrant populations around us are all like very high status.

[00:33:34] I mean, you know, we're talking doctors, software engineers, like, you know, this is not the shanty town of Osaka.

[00:33:42] Right.

[00:33:43] Where the Koreans are living in 1950, but there's still kind of that attitude.

[00:33:48] Whereas, you know, I think for many of us who are not in an immigration situation, you know, we don't have quite that same need to prove ourselves or prove our community.

[00:34:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:05] And so, you know, with NOAA, it is, it's not just the economic opportunity.

[00:34:11] It's the idea that a Korean could get into this prestigious university and a Korean could go and succeed and, you know, be a great student and better themselves.

[00:34:23] And it gives, you know, that trickle down, but it also shows that it's possible and gives everybody else in the community some hope.

[00:34:33] Right.

[00:34:33] Right.

[00:34:34] Aim for.

[00:34:35] Right.

[00:34:35] Potential.

[00:34:35] So it's going to be interesting to see in season three what the fallout will be when we, you know, we're going to talk about those plot points later.

[00:34:42] But obviously, NOAA is not going to live up to that ultimately.

[00:34:46] He's going to disappear later.

[00:34:49] But at this point, before he leaves for university, he gives, he and his brother, it's kind of the last thing they do together as brothers.

[00:34:57] They give their family one more gift before NOAA goes.

[00:35:01] They take their angry uncle for a walk who has, you know, is, is, what is the word you use, Nate?

[00:35:09] That he's covered with scars from, you know, the atomic explosion.

[00:35:13] He is what's known as a hibakusha, which is a, you know, the term given to a survivor of the atomic bombings in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[00:35:23] Right.

[00:35:23] And he has just been hiding out for years in shame and just being a completely miserable person.

[00:35:31] Anytime he shows up for a family meal, he's just bringing the vibes down.

[00:35:34] And NOAA is finally like, you know what, I'm leaving and I can't leave things like this.

[00:35:40] And he just forces him almost to, along with his brother, to go for a walk and to, you know, just face what he's afraid of.

[00:35:49] I guess he's afraid of everybody laughing at him, but people just ignore him, you know, and they watch a baseball game because people just aren't really paying attention to everyone around them.

[00:36:00] Which is a nice callback to Hounsou and his father watching the baseball game.

[00:36:05] Or being outside the baseball game doing the picnic thing.

[00:36:09] Yeah.

[00:36:10] Which then makes me think of Soon-Jew's father with a cleft lip.

[00:36:13] Hmm.

[00:36:14] And his, you know, his outcast status and this idea.

[00:36:18] And then this whole community being, quote unquote, outcast, you know, or marginal to Japanese society being, you know, Koreans.

[00:36:25] And this whole sequence, this whole subject, I was not expecting it.

[00:36:30] And I was so moved by it because one of the layers of what the show is for me is this, is a story of redemption.

[00:36:39] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:39] And the ability not only to come back from incredible circumstances and continue to keep coming back, but that he doesn't have to live with his shame anymore.

[00:36:54] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:54] He can actually, you know, just be.

[00:36:56] And when that happens, it's transformative for him and it's transformative for that family.

[00:37:02] Right.

[00:37:02] And it's just so moving to see that because I thought, man, this, because we see him being kind of a cool guy, you know, like a kind of a cool guy in the factory.

[00:37:12] Like he's a little bit.

[00:37:14] Right.

[00:37:14] Friendly and whatever.

[00:37:15] But then here.

[00:37:16] And then so that's.

[00:37:17] He wasn't the miserable man he became after.

[00:37:20] He was just living with his opinion about himself because he thought he had an idea of what people would think of him.

[00:37:27] Right.

[00:37:27] And all of these sociological expectations that he has of being the older brother, blah, blah, blah.

[00:37:32] And it's like, no, I don't have to live with that anymore.

[00:37:36] And I'm a sucker for this kind of story.

[00:37:39] So like that's where station 11 got me because the story of redemption and the story of transformation.

[00:37:44] So you throw this storyline out at me, man, I'm a bubbling mess.

[00:37:47] So I get a box of tissues and I'm crying.

[00:37:50] He lets go a little bit of some of the shame he feels for not living up to this idealized, you know, idea of Korean masculinity as the head of the household and so forth.

[00:38:07] And, you know, I think this is one of the reasons why Noah is such an interesting and wonderful character.

[00:38:16] Mm hmm.

[00:38:17] And at least to this point, you know, is he and his adoptive father are the only pure people in this world.

[00:38:26] Mm hmm.

[00:38:28] And, you know, Noah just has that same kind of magic touch that his adoptive father had.

[00:38:39] Isak?

[00:38:40] You know, yeah, Isak.

[00:38:41] Thank you.

[00:38:43] That he can just kind of reach people and get them to open up and, you know, without being confrontational.

[00:38:53] You know, he's got a kindness and a gentleness to him that in this moment really reaches out to his uncle in a way that, you know, he needed.

[00:39:04] Right.

[00:39:05] But then when he goes to Wasada, I'm going to try and say it the way you do.

[00:39:11] Then, you know, things are starting to he's starting to be more confronted with the world.

[00:39:16] And one of the things that happens is he meets this politically active girl, Akiko, who is it turns out she she looks like trouble to begin with.

[00:39:26] But we found out in a few episodes how much trouble she is.

[00:39:30] But, yeah, we see her talking about, you know, giving political speeches.

[00:39:36] Would this be tied to the conflict in Korea or?

[00:39:41] This isn't so much tied to the conflict in Korea because it's, you know, she's Japanese.

[00:39:47] She's at the Japanese.

[00:39:48] Right.

[00:39:49] What it is tied to is, you know, after the occupation, you know, we're getting to the end of the occupation.

[00:39:57] The occupation ends in 1952.

[00:39:59] So, you know, if he was sitting for his exam in June of 1950, then this is probably fall of 1950 or, you know, spring of 1951.

[00:40:11] I'm not sure.

[00:40:12] Japanese school year starts in the spring.

[00:40:15] Okay.

[00:40:15] So that's probably when it is, is he's getting there.

[00:40:19] Anyway, so she's there.

[00:40:23] There's this vacuum after the war where the old, you know, militarist imperial government is kind of broken up by the Americans.

[00:40:33] And the Americans, you know, throw in the floppy disk to use very old technology metaphors and upload, you know,

[00:40:45] democracy to the system.

[00:40:49] They, you know, literally just graded 20 exams on this exact subject.

[00:40:58] But they, you know, they install a new constitution that they write for the Japanese and tell the Japanese you're going to accept this and kind of thing.

[00:41:09] Right.

[00:41:09] So we're in this political space of Japan trying to come to grips with what is going to be Japanese democracy.

[00:41:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:41:20] And we have, you know, political parties that are formed.

[00:41:25] Some of them are from remnants of the old political parties prior to the war and, you know, tend to the more conservative side.

[00:41:32] Then also we have the socialists and the communists, like I said before, you know, being a force in people's minds and able to organize and so forth.

[00:41:44] And so that is what's going on here is that, you know, students in particular, because of course they're, you know, young and ambitious and, you know, see the world as a world of possibilities.

[00:41:58] Right.

[00:41:58] So they're leaping into this new idea of, well, what are we, what is Japan?

[00:42:04] What is, you know, Japanese politics going to be?

[00:42:07] What is Japan's role in the world supposed to be?

[00:42:10] And so she's, you know, jumping both feet into this by giving political speeches and so forth.

[00:42:19] We see that Noah, you know, when we, when we see her initially, she's, you know, Noah is watching her as she's giving this speech and he's very interested in what's going on.

[00:42:32] And then I don't know if you want to jump ahead to.

[00:42:35] We can at least talk about the fact that she seems to have been, especially into him because he's Korean and it was sort of like a rebel, you know, upset daddy.

[00:42:47] Yeah.

[00:42:47] Yeah.

[00:42:48] Yeah.

[00:42:49] So there we, we see them in a, in, in class together and she's giving some opinion about literature or whatever.

[00:43:01] And she doesn't understand the, she only understands the elite position and he's like, well, the problem is.

[00:43:06] Yeah.

[00:43:06] And the, the, the, yeah, exactly.

[00:43:09] The professor then turns to Noah for his comments and Noah basically blows her away.

[00:43:13] Yeah.

[00:43:14] Right.

[00:43:15] Basically says, you know, yeah, you have no idea of what it's like to live anything beyond your ivory tower.

[00:43:22] And this work is this and that and the other it's setting them up in that scene as like classroom rivals.

[00:43:29] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:31] But then we cut after that to a scene where they're, they're clearly together.

[00:43:37] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:37] And she is very much like, she's so hot for him.

[00:43:41] It's hilarious.

[00:43:42] Yeah.

[00:43:42] Uh, because I think he's like the first person who's actually like challenged her.

[00:43:47] Yeah.

[00:43:48] Yeah.

[00:43:48] You know, intellectually.

[00:43:50] And, and, um, you know, we see later that she comes from a very politically connected and wealthy family.

[00:43:56] Yeah.

[00:43:56] And so, yeah, whether it's, you know, that rebellion thing of, oh, he's a Korean, but also he's an intellectual match for me.

[00:44:05] And, um, she's all, she's very into him.

[00:44:09] Yeah.

[00:44:09] Yeah.

[00:44:09] Because she is the daughter of the jet of Japan's foreign undersecretary.

[00:44:14] So, and, you know, we saw Noah before this, that he was flirting with this girl in a tofu stand, you know, her father ran a tofu stand and she was very quiet and demure.

[00:44:25] And there was like this sense, nothing had ever happened between them or, you know, they barely spoke to each other of the sense, but he almost didn't want to go to school because he had this thought, like, what if I was just with a nice girl like that?

[00:44:36] And now Akiko is like the polar opposite of that.

[00:44:39] Yeah.

[00:44:40] Well, the funny thing is, is that the, the tofu stand girl is kind of who Sunja leverages to convince him that he needs to go.

[00:44:50] Right.

[00:44:51] Cause she is so enamored with the fact that he's so smart and gotten to this elite university and, and has this opportunity.

[00:44:59] And she kind of, Sunja kind of like uses that as, as her final push to say, go to Wasida.

[00:45:06] Right.

[00:45:06] Right.

[00:45:07] But then he gets to Wasida and immediately is, you know, meets this, this, this very opposite polar opposite, as you said.

[00:45:16] So.

[00:45:17] All right.

[00:45:18] Let's take a quick break.

[00:45:20] And then when we come back, we'll pick up the family story.

[00:45:37] And we're back.

[00:45:38] I have to say that, that, I don't know when we're going to get to it necessarily in the timeline, but there's that moment when Sunja has the conversation with Noah at the noodle stand about his future.

[00:45:51] That destroyed me.

[00:45:52] That absolutely destroyed me.

[00:45:54] No, we'll bring it up now because we're, yeah.

[00:45:56] I'm trying to find the notes where, where we have that.

[00:45:58] If I, if I wrote something about it.

[00:46:00] No, cause we passed that point.

[00:46:01] Right.

[00:46:03] I just, the, there's, there are moments in this show where there's almost like a thesis that's being brought forward.

[00:46:09] There's almost like a point that they're trying to tell us, like, have hope, hold on, you know, you know, love your kids, whatever it is.

[00:46:19] And this, this was a scene that absolutely, I thought was pivotal for Sunja and for Noah.

[00:46:29] And I just love her demeanor.

[00:46:32] I love the setting.

[00:46:34] I love what she says.

[00:46:35] I tried to get the English audio track out so we could play it, but it doesn't sound anything like the subtitles as they're written on the screen.

[00:46:46] And it doesn't, it sort of do it justice, but yeah, it just, it's just a beautiful moment that I think echoes through because then there's the scene with Hounsou and his dad outside the baseball game.

[00:47:00] And then of course we go back to Sunja and her father on the boat when he's saying, I'll protect you.

[00:47:04] And so they do just, it's this little moment.

[00:47:08] It's this little device, almost a mechanical plot device that they deploy across the episodes and in key moments that just absolutely wrecks me.

[00:47:18] And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, just like keep feeding me this.

[00:47:22] Yeah.

[00:47:23] And meanwhile, while Noah's off being the hopes of the family, we've got Musasu.

[00:47:29] He's he, you know, it's like everyone wants him to be his big brother and he just never was.

[00:47:35] And he has his own, you know, his own prose.

[00:47:38] Like we saw him as a young kid.

[00:47:39] He's the one who stands up for himself.

[00:47:41] He's the one who can more easily bridge that gap, that barrier, but he's not a scholar.

[00:47:48] Um, and he is caught cheating with some friends in a pachinko parlor.

[00:47:54] And, um, the owner of the parlor, who's actually, he's a noodle shop regular of his mom's named Goto.

[00:48:01] So he goes to Sunja and he's like, I caught your son cheating, but actually I want to hire him.

[00:48:08] He's like, let's be honest.

[00:48:09] He's not Noah.

[00:48:10] I think that I could help him build a career and protect him in this.

[00:48:14] And, um, but unwittingly this also means, and this is not what Goto wants, but it exposes

[00:48:20] Mo Sasu to the Yoshi family who ends up being a presence in their lives for at least another

[00:48:26] generation.

[00:48:27] But, and, and so it's funny, Kyung Yi, she, this, um, Sunja's sister-in-law slash best friend.

[00:48:34] She, on the one hand, this is what she's worried about the Yoshi side of it, but she's objecting

[00:48:39] to Goto.

[00:48:40] Who's actually the good one who is giving him an opportunity.

[00:48:42] Mosasu who he wouldn't otherwise have.

[00:48:45] Right.

[00:48:46] Because, because it's, it's going into gambling.

[00:48:49] It's a, uh, you know, and especially if you, if you, if we remember the fact that they're

[00:48:54] a particularly devoutly Christian family.

[00:48:57] Right.

[00:48:58] Right.

[00:48:58] The idea of going into some sort of illicit or, or, or at least immoral trade, like gambling

[00:49:07] is, uh, you know, of great concern to, to her.

[00:49:10] And then of course, I mean, they know about the connections that it has with, you know,

[00:49:15] more, uh, uh, organized crime and, and, and stuff like that.

[00:49:20] So, I mean, I don't think that her concerns are unwarranted.

[00:49:24] Right.

[00:49:27] But, uh, but yeah, it provides an interesting, uh, exchange.

[00:49:34] Yeah.

[00:49:35] Yeah.

[00:49:35] And, and, um, this, the fact that, you know, this conversation was between Sunja and Kyungyi,

[00:49:41] uh, where Sunja says to Kyungyi, this is something I might expect from Yosep, Kyungyi's husband,

[00:49:47] but not from you.

[00:49:49] And Yosep overhears this.

[00:49:51] And this is another, in addition to his walk outside, this is another moment where he's sort

[00:49:55] of confronted and he ends up giving Kyungyi all of the letters from Mr. Kim, whose real

[00:50:02] first name, by the way, is Changho.

[00:50:03] He has a first name, but nobody ever uses it.

[00:50:05] So we don't either, but, um, he's been, you know, off in the war, uh, and writing back

[00:50:11] letters to her and, um, her husband's been keeping them from her because he knows that they're

[00:50:18] in love.

[00:50:19] And that's, can you just imagine, you know, that just what that's like.

[00:50:25] Like for, he's dealing with all of his stuff with his scarring and, you know, his, uh, from

[00:50:29] the war, from the bomb.

[00:50:31] And also he knows he can see that his wife is in love with another man, but stays with

[00:50:36] him out of duty.

[00:50:37] Right.

[00:50:39] Well, I, I think that's a, a, you know, him overhearing her kind of give her concerns to

[00:50:47] Sunja about the pachinko parlor, uh, you know, helps.

[00:50:54] Like, I think the reason he gives her the letters is because he sees that she's loyal.

[00:51:02] Like she's loyal in the sense of, you know, the same ideals and wanting to uphold the family,

[00:51:08] you know, name and, and not get involved with, uh, with bad things and whatever.

[00:51:14] And so cheating on him caused the bomb.

[00:51:16] So, yes, yes.

[00:51:19] Um, but like, you know, he also recognizes, uh, you know, part of his individual, Yosef's

[00:51:28] individual transition, uh, and transformation is that, you know, having to give up kind of

[00:51:35] that role of the, the, the ham family head.

[00:51:39] I mean, he, he, I think he generally does love, can he?

[00:51:45] Uh huh.

[00:51:46] And so he, he realizes that giving her the letters and kind of like, I mean, cause he did

[00:51:52] say, you know, earlier that, you know, if she wanted to go with, with Mr. Kim.

[00:52:00] Um, yeah.

[00:52:02] Do that.

[00:52:02] Right.

[00:52:03] So he's kind of given up that machismo kind of ownership.

[00:52:09] Right.

[00:52:10] Yeah.

[00:52:10] He's evolving.

[00:52:11] Yeah.

[00:52:12] And wants her to be happy.

[00:52:14] Even if that means, you know, having an emotional connection with, with another man.

[00:52:19] Right.

[00:52:19] Who's been living with them by the way, for all these years, which is just torture for everyone.

[00:52:24] Yeah.

[00:52:24] Then that's part of his transformative arc is, is that he realizes that, Hey, the reality

[00:52:31] that we've been living in is not the reality that, or, you know, the ideal of the reality

[00:52:35] is not the reality.

[00:52:37] And now that I'm coming to understand that, uh, uh, my perceptions of things aren't really

[00:52:45] what's going on here.

[00:52:46] Let me resolve myself to what's going on here.

[00:52:49] And again, it's just one of those beautiful transformative moments where he, he understands

[00:52:54] he doesn't have to be a particular way and he doesn't have to be in the way of, of other

[00:52:58] people finding happiness and that maybe his happiness lies elsewhere.

[00:53:03] Right.

[00:53:05] But Nate, you have in the notes, you're surprised he's alive and can still get mail from North

[00:53:09] Korea to Japan.

[00:53:10] Yeah.

[00:53:11] Uh, well, just, you know, knowing how the course of the war evolves over, uh, 1950 and then into,

[00:53:20] you know, we might be in 1951 by now.

[00:53:22] Yeah.

[00:53:22] It's not quite clear.

[00:53:25] Um, but I mean, you know, the North, uh, the, the, the war in Korea is not a, uh, not

[00:53:32] a gentlemanly affair, uh, to, to put it lightly.

[00:53:35] The, uh, you know, there's a lot going on.

[00:53:37] And if we, we know from his fervor as he is making the decision to go and the fact that

[00:53:45] he's, he's not like a shrinking violet, right?

[00:53:47] Like he's a, uh, he can be a very violent man if the, his job requires it or whatever,

[00:53:55] even though we think of him as a nice guy.

[00:53:57] Right.

[00:53:57] Right.

[00:53:58] So every indication we have is that he would be the type to want to go to the front and

[00:54:04] be like, he's not there to provide moral support.

[00:54:08] Deliver messages or yeah.

[00:54:09] He's going to, you know, be fighting, uh, in the thick of it.

[00:54:14] And so the, I, the, the fact that, um, because, you know, us and, and UN, uh, United Nations

[00:54:22] forces, uh, in the fall of 1950, push the North Koreans back and almost, you know, reach the,

[00:54:33] the Chinese border before the Chinese, uh, come into the war and then push them back.

[00:54:40] Right.

[00:54:41] And, you know, so then we have this kind of seesawing back and forth of very intense fighting.

[00:54:48] Um, and so the idea that he could not only is alive, but is writing letters and that somehow

[00:54:56] they're going from the front lines on the Korean peninsula through some routing via North Korea,

[00:55:05] you know, North Korea to Japan, which is still occupied where the very tail end of the U.S.

[00:55:12] occupation is very interesting to me.

[00:55:14] I don't know quite how that, that would work.

[00:55:17] I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just very interesting.

[00:55:21] Right.

[00:55:22] Right.

[00:55:23] And meanwhile, um, Noah's up at school and I, he's doing well, obviously in the school

[00:55:28] part.

[00:55:29] Um, but he's falling under his, his two influences up there are Honsu, um, who I guess has kind

[00:55:36] of sort of relocated to Tokyo to be near his son.

[00:55:40] Um, but I, but again, Noah still head in the sand.

[00:55:44] I don't know who that he's my real father.

[00:55:46] He's just a guy who's always had a lot of interest in me.

[00:55:49] Um, but he's also, uh, Honsu is, is meddling more in politics there now with his, um, we

[00:55:57] talked about his, the death of his father-in-law, you know, quote unquote.

[00:56:02] Yeah.

[00:56:02] Yeah.

[00:56:03] By extension, um, in, by Honsu's hands, but, uh, so he's meeting with his Kuro Gane was an

[00:56:10] aspiring politician and he's now married to Honsu's daughter-in-law.

[00:56:15] So I guess the Honsu got to go to the wedding after all.

[00:56:18] Yeah.

[00:56:18] Yeah.

[00:56:19] So it's, it's interesting cause he's very clearly taken his father-in-law's place as kind of

[00:56:24] the political, uh, puppet master.

[00:56:28] Um, which on the one hand is very, you know, interesting because he's Korean.

[00:56:33] People know he's Korean yet he, he's exercising this power in, uh, post-war Japan.

[00:56:40] Uh, it's, it's very, uh, quite striking that that's the case, but of course he can only

[00:56:48] do it from the shadows as it were.

[00:56:52] Right.

[00:56:52] So you have to have, uh, people like Kuro Gane, uh, who can do the actual political stuff,

[00:56:59] uh, on, you know, with his backing.

[00:57:02] Uh, and Kuro Gane, I think I'm fairly sure that Kuro Gane is not a real person that he's

[00:57:08] a show creation.

[00:57:10] Um, but they mentioned that he is a, a member of the liberal party.

[00:57:16] Uh, and for those who are not well-versed in 1950s Japanese politics, don't get confused.

[00:57:23] Uh, the liberal party is not liberal.

[00:57:26] It is not, uh, leftist at all.

[00:57:29] Uh, it is extremely conservative.

[00:57:31] Uh, it would go on to form half of what would become the liberal democratic party by merging

[00:57:38] with the democratic party, which at the time was also not particularly liberal or leftist.

[00:57:45] It was very conservative.

[00:57:46] Both parties were basically factions of ex bureaucrats from the wartime period who then merged.

[00:57:55] And in 1955, uh, would take control and essentially dominate Japanese government until today with

[00:58:06] only a couple of minor blips where other parties were able to get in and have, you know, brief

[00:58:11] periods of, of prime ministership.

[00:58:13] But, um, you know, so the liberal democratic party is the one that has, you know, if people

[00:58:18] remember, uh, Abe Shinzo, the, the prime minister of Japan who after he stepped down was then

[00:58:24] assassinated, um, you know, uh, a year recently, a year and a half ago.

[00:58:32] Um, you know, that's this party's legacy, right?

[00:58:36] Like that's this liberal party that Kurogane is part of becomes, you know, merges with another

[00:58:43] party and it becomes the liberal democratic party.

[00:58:46] Uh, very, you know, staunchly conservative party that, that has control of Japan for basically

[00:58:54] 75 years, something like that.

[00:58:57] So, um, the fact that Hounsou is backing this and is pulling these strings is an amazing leap

[00:59:06] up from where he was.

[00:59:08] Right.

[00:59:09] Even just as his, you know, the son-in-law.

[00:59:12] I don't think he's regretting getting his father-in-law out of the way for multiple reasons.

[00:59:16] So, um, it's also interesting because Kurogane, who is clearly on Hounsou's leash now was the

[00:59:24] one who in their first meeting was like very dismissive of him and, uh, you know, very almost

[00:59:33] rude in their, in their meeting, you know, because, oh, well, this is just some Korean guy.

[00:59:39] Right.

[00:59:39] Well, that was also, yeah.

[00:59:41] Yeah.

[00:59:41] Cause, um, Noah, instead of using that name, Bandu that he's been going, um, by through

[00:59:46] school, he, he tells, says right in front of this politician guy, this other, the son-in-law

[00:59:52] that his last name is Bake and he wants to be a teacher, not a politician.

[00:59:57] So he's sort of embarrassing Hounsou a little bit there.

[00:59:59] Right.

[01:00:00] Right.

[01:00:01] Right.

[01:00:01] But yeah, it's just, it's very interesting.

[01:00:03] The, the kind of like it, it's, it very clearly shows the rise that Hounsou has made.

[01:00:09] Mm-hmm.

[01:00:10] This guy who was, you know, introduced to us as this rising political star who was looking

[01:00:16] down on Hounsou because Hounsou's Korean is now kind of his, his lapdog.

[01:00:21] Right.

[01:00:21] Right.

[01:00:22] And now, yeah.

[01:00:23] And also that, um, he, we, we get the hint he didn't have the opportunity to have this

[01:00:29] kind of education that Noah's getting.

[01:00:30] So every book Noah reads for school, Hounsou's also reading, but you know, his experience is

[01:00:36] not, um, is not succeeding through education.

[01:00:40] His experience is succeeding through getting your hands dirty.

[01:00:43] So that's the only kind of success I suppose he can imagine for his son.

[01:00:48] Well, I think, you know, I don't think he wants to bring Noah into necessarily the dirty

[01:00:55] side of things, but he sees it as, okay, you're, you know, I'm the generation that gathers the

[01:01:03] power through, you know, dirty means.

[01:01:08] And you are the generation that's going to solidify it through politics and make us legitimate.

[01:01:14] Right.

[01:01:15] He's kind of money laundering his family's, uh, anyway, like reputationly laundering.

[01:01:19] But then, then Noah's kind of like, you know, no, I, I don't want that.

[01:01:24] I want to be a teacher.

[01:01:26] Right.

[01:01:26] And I don't want to study politics is, you know, a rejection of, of like, it almost goes

[01:01:33] back to the same, you know, yes, biologically Noah is Hounsou's kid, but in terms of temperament

[01:01:41] and everything, he is definitely Isaac's son.

[01:01:44] Right.

[01:01:45] Yeah.

[01:01:45] Right.

[01:01:45] Yeah.

[01:01:45] Do you think David, so we have Akiko, the girlfriend, she shows up unannounced at this

[01:01:52] dinner party because she just can't respect Noah's request that he give her the privacy

[01:01:57] on this one thing.

[01:02:00] And she ends up, turns out like really nasty in the end.

[01:02:04] And she's the one who throws it in his face.

[01:02:06] So this is clearly his father and sends Noah spiraling.

[01:02:09] But don't you kind of think that Akiko is who Hounsou would want Noah to marry because

[01:02:15] of her connections?

[01:02:17] That's interesting because what does Hounsou want for his son?

[01:02:20] The, the political power and the, the esteem and the respectability or to be happy in his

[01:02:26] life and to, you know, follow his dreams.

[01:02:28] And I think it's a real tension.

[01:02:31] And, and, you know, she's, she's somebody, she's one of those kinds of people in, in life

[01:02:38] that it kind of throws a, kind of blows up a bunch of stuff.

[01:02:42] Like, you're like, Hey, I'm going along.

[01:02:43] Everything's great.

[01:02:43] And like, Whoa, this person is, is turned me over.

[01:02:48] And it, I think it's just an, I don't know.

[01:02:52] I don't know what to think of that moment beyond the fact that, that yeah, I think you're

[01:02:58] right that he would want him to be with her because of the political connections, but

[01:03:03] he's a complex character because is that, because he tried to follow his heart as well.

[01:03:08] Maybe he's trying to recreate what he had or almost had with Sunji.

[01:03:12] Like I have my love and I have my public life.

[01:03:14] Interesting.

[01:03:15] He, he, he clearly perks up once he realizes who Akiko's family is and sees it as a fantastic

[01:03:25] kind of like immediately he's very like, Oh yeah.

[01:03:29] You know, not to be crude, but it's like good score, son.

[01:03:34] Yeah.

[01:03:34] Right.

[01:03:35] You know, in, in, in, in a way.

[01:03:37] Um, and I think that's an interesting point you bring up David about what, what does he

[01:03:41] want for Noah?

[01:03:42] Does he want him to be happy or does he want him to, uh, have power?

[01:03:46] Or I think for Honsu in his experience and in his mind, the way to be happy is to have

[01:03:54] that control, have that power because otherwise you are left to the winds of the world and can't,

[01:04:03] you know, guarantee your happiness.

[01:04:05] Right.

[01:04:05] Like he's lived this whole life where he's had to claw his way up through nefarious means

[01:04:13] because a random thing, like an earthquake took away opportunities from him.

[01:04:18] Right.

[01:04:19] Right.

[01:04:19] So I think in his mind to be happy, you have to have some measure of economic and political

[01:04:29] control in order to, to guarantee that.

[01:04:34] It's hard for parents to, uh, let go and let their kids just live their lives.

[01:04:40] Like I'm noticing now as our daughter is in fourth grade and the world is occurring for

[01:04:47] her differently.

[01:04:48] And she's starting to make some choices about some things.

[01:04:50] And I'm like, yeah, but we really wanted you to go in this direction and have these particular

[01:04:55] interests.

[01:04:55] And of course, intellectually, I know that high school and college are going to also continue

[01:05:01] to radically, you know, not radically, but alter what she thinks and where she wants to

[01:05:07] go in her life.

[01:05:08] But, and, and yet I'm holding onto these things that I constructed and letting that go and

[01:05:13] letting the child be their own person.

[01:05:16] And that's what my job is, is to set them up to be their own person in the world.

[01:05:19] Definitely there because I have a son who's a freshman in college and a daughter who's

[01:05:24] a sophomore in high school.

[01:05:25] And we're going through those exact same things, you know, particularly like with my daughter,

[01:05:32] where we thought and, and, and have thought and have been supporting her as she, uh, looks

[01:05:38] towards a professional dance career.

[01:05:41] But now she's starting to have thoughts about college and, you know, which is, which do I

[01:05:46] want to do?

[01:05:47] And, and, and so forth.

[01:05:48] And of course we're going to support her through, you know, all of those decisions, but you're

[01:05:55] like, well, I had this background myself.

[01:05:58] So this is what I see as the normal path, but you have this opportunity, but what, which

[01:06:03] one do I support?

[01:06:06] You know, I mean, yeah, all those things.

[01:06:09] So yeah, I, I certainly, right.

[01:06:12] I'm not going to kill my father-in-law.

[01:06:15] No.

[01:06:16] And watch.

[01:06:16] And watch.

[01:06:17] And he, of course, we should mention, he hires one of the Yoshis to, you know, this

[01:06:21] Yoshi family is bad news bears in this.

[01:06:24] Um, but also, I mean, we see Honsu on his, like he spirals, he's spiraling also because

[01:06:29] the Yoshis are taking over his market and stuff.

[01:06:31] So he reclaims it through this act of, of patricide.

[01:06:35] Um, but then we see, he's just also like, we see him publicly smack down a sex worker

[01:06:42] in a cafe.

[01:06:43] Um, but then at the same time, he, we see him going to Sunja asking her to help him find

[01:06:49] the meaning in his life.

[01:06:51] She tells him to cut out the rot, but I don't know that he's capable of that.

[01:06:55] I think if he feels like if he cuts out the rot, there'll be nothing left.

[01:07:01] Yeah.

[01:07:01] Um, well, so Noah finds out that he's his father and, and Noah is, I think Noah's probably

[01:07:09] always suspected this deep down, but just was living in deep denial.

[01:07:13] And this sends him spiraling and he goes back and you just know he shows up unexpectedly

[01:07:19] to see his mom and she's immediately, she knows something's wrong.

[01:07:22] I know we as viewers know something's wrong.

[01:07:25] Um, and he says he's going back to school.

[01:07:27] And as soon as he walks away, she's like, ah, no, no, no.

[01:07:30] And she goes running after him, but he's gone.

[01:07:33] And he's, he's like gone, gone.

[01:07:35] Yeah.

[01:07:37] Disappears.

[01:07:38] Disappears.

[01:07:38] Which we always kind of knew that there was, we knew we had season one, like, oh, they dropped

[01:07:44] the word Noah a couple of times and then we're seeing him.

[01:07:46] And then I'm like thinking like, wait, season one, where's Noah?

[01:07:50] You know, as I'm watching season two.

[01:07:52] And then we get the gone, gone thing.

[01:07:54] And it was like, oh, jaw hit the floor.

[01:07:57] Kind of like, whoa, this is way more.

[01:07:59] This is not what I expected.

[01:08:00] And I love it, but yeah.

[01:08:02] Yeah.

[01:08:03] So that, that gold watch comes back because he pawns it again.

[01:08:06] So my question is, will we see it again?

[01:08:09] Will like Honsu's men have found it?

[01:08:11] Is Hans, did Honsu send someone to follow him?

[01:08:14] Is there a new Mr. Kim?

[01:08:16] Oh yeah.

[01:08:17] Point.

[01:08:18] But he, he even changes his name.

[01:08:20] And it's interesting that we were just talking about him insisting that his last name is Bake.

[01:08:25] But now when he's creating a new identity, he goes to work at Pachinko Parlor, of course,

[01:08:31] of all places.

[01:08:32] And he chooses a Japanese name because he, because the guy's like, I don't hire Koreans.

[01:08:36] He's like, well, luckily my name is Minato Ogawa and I'm totally Japanese.

[01:08:43] So yeah, you had the notes, David, that 80% of Pachinko parlors are ethnically Korean.

[01:08:48] So it's like, leave it to Noah to find the one that's not.

[01:08:51] Right.

[01:08:52] Exactly.

[01:08:53] I guess he's hiding from his community.

[01:08:55] I think that was an interesting note in the, in the reading that I was doing, like, oh, I

[01:08:58] didn't, you know, it was just, it, and I think Nita must go into the thing of, well,

[01:09:04] this is this slightly distasteful activity according to our norms.

[01:09:08] So we'll let these other people sort of, yeah, it's legally liminal space, right?

[01:09:13] Like on the borderline between, uh, yeah.

[01:09:18] I mean, much like, you know, casino gambling and so forth in the United States was, uh, a

[01:09:25] site of, you know, mafia and other organized crime activity and money laundering and, and

[01:09:31] so forth.

[01:09:32] So, uh, yeah.

[01:09:35] Yeah.

[01:09:36] Well, you said, um, so he went to Nagano and you said that's an interesting choice.

[01:09:41] Why is that an interesting choice?

[01:09:43] Oh, so when I, when I, when I put that down, it was because of the idea, uh, that he's, you

[01:09:53] know, choosing to, to go work at a Pachinko parlor.

[01:09:56] Right.

[01:09:56] And like, he, I mean, he maybe has an idea that his brother has taken a part-time job

[01:10:02] at a Pachinko parlor or whatever, but you know, we certainly don't know that Mosasu is

[01:10:10] going to go into the Pachinko business like we do from knowing the 1989 timeline.

[01:10:16] Right.

[01:10:16] Right.

[01:10:16] So I just fear like, we don't know that Noah is still doing Nagano.

[01:10:21] Yeah.

[01:10:21] As it was just, okay, here, Noah's coming back into the Pachinko parlor world.

[01:10:27] Right.

[01:10:28] That his family will be connected to.

[01:10:31] And so for me, it's like, okay, does this mean that we're going to see some court sort

[01:10:37] of connection to him later?

[01:10:39] Maybe that even our 1989 protagonists don't know yet because it's going to happen in that

[01:10:45] timeline.

[01:10:46] I don't know.

[01:10:47] I mean, I have to imagine that we get some sort of resolution on Noah eventually, but

[01:10:55] I don't know.

[01:10:56] I'm intrigued to see where it goes.

[01:10:57] I guess at this point he knows his brother has started the new job.

[01:11:01] If I, I don't know how much he's been communicating with home, but one part of me wonders if he

[01:11:07] like wants to be close to his brother in a way, but it is interesting that Mosasu was always

[01:11:11] compared as if he were not living up to the standard that is Noah.

[01:11:16] But in the end, Mosasu is the one who's still with his family, you know, who helps lift them

[01:11:23] out of poverty and is still a main character in the show when we jump forward to the 1989

[01:11:27] timeline.

[01:11:28] So jumping forward to the 1989 part of the season, this is mostly set in Tokyo and we find Solomon.

[01:11:37] So this is the son of Mosasu, grandson of Sunja.

[01:11:42] Solomon's, he's at a low point from blowing that deal we talked about last time where he

[01:11:47] told the woman to walk away.

[01:11:48] And, um, he's also dealing with another, with the grandson Yoshi, which Mosasu is obviously

[01:11:55] not very happy with because we learn as the season goes on that Mosasu understands what

[01:12:01] that family is all about.

[01:12:02] Um, and also, yeah.

[01:12:04] So Solomon's trying to get new investments for his next idea and those are falling through.

[01:12:08] Um, although Mosasu and Sunja do invest a hundred million yen and with their new pachinko parlor

[01:12:16] as collateral and he ends up ripping up the check because he can't do that to him.

[01:12:21] Um, David, what did you think of that move?

[01:12:23] Would you have taken the check?

[01:12:25] Do you think he should have?

[01:12:27] I kind of, my, my cringe factor sort of like, oh no, like ABC afterschool special kind of

[01:12:35] like, oh no, like this is going to end in disaster thing was really relieved that he didn't take

[01:12:39] the check.

[01:12:41] Yeah.

[01:12:41] I was like, oh, that's like one more point of drama that I don't have to be like anxious

[01:12:45] about while watching the rest of this storyline.

[01:12:48] Right.

[01:12:49] Because yeah, Solomon knows that the Japanese market bubble is about to burst.

[01:12:53] So Nate, tell us, set that up for us.

[01:12:55] Okay.

[01:12:56] So, um, I honestly can't remember how much of this we talked about before.

[01:13:03] Uh, speed run the, the outline of it.

[01:13:06] So yeah, but, um, so 1989 is a, is a huge year, uh, in Japan, the, the emperor, uh, who

[01:13:18] had, uh, you know, been the emperor during the war, Hirohito passes away in January.

[01:13:23] Uh, and then, uh, we know that at the end of the year, uh, historically there is a massive,

[01:13:34] um, market bubble that, that collapses, right?

[01:13:40] The, the, the, basically the short version is that much of the success of the Japanese

[01:13:46] economy up to this point, if you, you know, those of us who lived through the eighties

[01:13:50] remember the idea of Japan, you know, buying everything in the United States, much of that

[01:13:55] was based off of, you know, certain economic policies that allowed banks in Japan to lend,

[01:14:03] uh, capital to companies, uh, in order, you know, at, at, at very low rates with very,

[01:14:12] you know, in ways that we wouldn't in the United States, uh, let's put it that way.

[01:14:17] And then, so they're talking about what's coming, uh, particularly it gets mentioned by, uh,

[01:14:26] Yoshimamoru, the, the grandson of, uh, the, the Yoshi family, uh, who we should mention

[01:14:33] is talked about, like, we don't know a whole lot of the details about the grandfather yet,

[01:14:37] but it's very clearly alluded to that he is, uh, some form of, uh, Yakuza and that his grandson

[01:14:46] has, whether he is or not has ties to that world, uh, and can leverage, you know, uh, people

[01:14:56] to do some dirty work.

[01:14:58] Anyway, they, they talk about it.

[01:15:00] And his grandfather was the one who killed Honsu's father-in-law, right?

[01:15:03] Yes, correct.

[01:15:04] And that's their connection.

[01:15:05] That's the connection that he has with Honsu.

[01:15:07] Um, so the, the Nikkei crash and the, on this bursting of the bubble, uh, you know,

[01:15:16] Yoshimamoru basically predicts that it's coming and kind of tips Solomon off.

[01:15:21] And then all of their moves are being made with the idea of getting people to invest in

[01:15:28] these projects, whether it's the, you know, the, the, the hotel or the golf courses or

[01:15:33] whatever, with the idea of knowing this is going to happen.

[01:15:37] And so making the most out of the, the crash, like they're positioning themselves so that

[01:15:47] when it happens, they'll be the ones left with the money and everybody else crashes.

[01:15:52] So one of the reasons why Solomon rips up that, that check from his, uh, from his father is

[01:16:00] because he doesn't want their pachinko parlor as collateral so that when the banks all crash

[01:16:07] and have to call in all their loans, that his family, like he knows that what he's, you

[01:16:13] know, it's not necessarily that what they're doing is what directly causes this, but it's

[01:16:19] part of it.

[01:16:20] Right.

[01:16:20] Right.

[01:16:20] And so he would essentially be profiting from his family losing their livelihood.

[01:16:27] And so that's, you know, very clear that he, he, he doesn't want what he's, you know,

[01:16:33] trading on to damage his family.

[01:16:36] Right.

[01:16:37] Right.

[01:16:38] Okay.

[01:16:39] And so he has a new plan.

[01:16:41] He's going to ruin his old boss, I guess, Abhi's son.

[01:16:46] Um, and again, yeah, this is part of what you're talking about.

[01:16:49] Everything he's setting up is like, he, so he wants to get it, Abhi to buy the land and

[01:16:55] then spread the rumors that there's a skeleton on sites.

[01:16:58] So he's sort of flanning, fanning some flames of panic there.

[01:17:02] Yeah.

[01:17:03] That it was used as like a, uh, a dumping ground for, uh, bodies that were, I want to

[01:17:09] say, you know, uh, military medical experiments or something like that, but I can't remember.

[01:17:13] It was medical something, right?

[01:17:15] Yeah.

[01:17:16] Yeah.

[01:17:16] Yeah.

[01:17:17] You know, it's interesting.

[01:17:19] We see there's the Solomon gives that speech to, you know, a bunch of prospective investors,

[01:17:24] uh, towards the end of the season.

[01:17:26] And he's very clearly trying to get them to, you know, invest in the, the golf course idea.

[01:17:32] And he gets asked about, um, the possibility of a, of a market crash.

[01:17:37] And he very bold face, you know, tells everybody, oh, there's no way the Japanese economy is

[01:17:45] going to keep going up and up and up.

[01:17:46] Right.

[01:17:47] Diamond hands, et cetera.

[01:17:49] Like, um, you know, modern crypto.

[01:17:51] Number go up.

[01:17:52] Yeah.

[01:17:53] Right.

[01:17:59] Right.

[01:18:01] Yeah.

[01:18:02] And he's, like, he knows he's lying about this.

[01:18:05] He knows he's taking advantage of all of these people.

[01:18:07] And that's, that's part of his revenge, um, on the whole system, not just Abe.

[01:18:12] So.

[01:18:13] Right.

[01:18:13] Yeah.

[01:18:14] And we see, you know, Solomon, this is when he's getting closer to the younger Yoshi.

[01:18:19] Um, he's becomes, you know, they make this new plan together to build this exclusive members

[01:18:24] only golf club.

[01:18:25] And that's when he's giving that speech.

[01:18:26] And I don't think he ever thinks it's going to happen, but his plan to get rid of his old

[01:18:32] boss, Abe, the one person standing in the way is his own girlfriend, Naomi, AKA, um,

[01:18:38] Anna Sawai.

[01:18:39] Love Anna Sawai.

[01:18:41] You love Anna Sawai.

[01:18:42] She.

[01:18:42] Lots of love for Anna Sawai, but her character.

[01:18:45] David, how much did you like think that he was the one messing up their relationship until

[01:18:50] we found out?

[01:18:52] Oh man.

[01:18:53] Yeah.

[01:18:54] Uh, this is, this whole storyline too, with him, uh, what was the, um, what was the family

[01:19:02] friend who died of, uh, cancer as well, or from HIV AIDS?

[01:19:05] Uh, Hana.

[01:19:05] Hana, right.

[01:19:07] Hana.

[01:19:07] And then with this relationship, it's there.

[01:19:12] I don't know what they're doing from the story element because they are, they're bringing

[01:19:15] in these other side characters that are real friction points in, in the arc and the trajectory

[01:19:21] and stuff that they have, they have to kind of deal with.

[01:19:24] And it really brought in some like modern relationships stuff about like how people relate to each other.

[01:19:36] And then when he's, when he finds out he's justifiably pissed, but it's such a tragic sort of circumstance because in a gay, in a, in another way, it's not like Honsu.

[01:19:47] It's not unlike Honsu where there's family duty and then there's heart, you know, am I following my heart or am I following the pathways that are being laid down for me?

[01:19:57] So again, more dramatic.

[01:19:59] I mean, just, you know, the, the heart in conflict with itself.

[01:20:03] Yeah.

[01:20:04] The way that it's set up is, you know, Naomi has this boyfriend that we kind of see through, you know.

[01:20:13] Right.

[01:20:14] He's, I think it's, it's what Yoshi who, who tells him kind of like, give them a hint.

[01:20:20] And then he goes and confirms that she.

[01:20:22] Yeah.

[01:20:23] Yoshi wants him to turn on her, but yeah, he goes and confirms.

[01:20:27] So then, but you know, there, there, we're back to the whole idea of, of exactly what you just said, David, you know, obligation versus the heart because it's set up.

[01:20:41] And I, you know, maybe it's unclear how much we should believe her, but Naomi is, is like, well, this is the guy that my family has set me up with.

[01:20:50] And so, you know, I have an obligation to go and, and, and whatever, but really I like you.

[01:20:56] Uh, and I think, you know, we mentioned in here that, that Tom, she's also been, uh, with Tom, uh, right.

[01:21:05] In the past before, kind of before we joined the story.

[01:21:09] Uh, and so she's obviously having her fun on, on the side, you know, uh, in various ways.

[01:21:16] It's not, it's not outside of the realm of possibility too.

[01:21:19] Like you working in a very tense, high pressure environment and you're seeking some, some simpatico somewhere, you know, some intimacy in, in that.

[01:21:30] So it's not surprising.

[01:21:31] Uh, well, and it's a, they're in a high income career with lots of money.

[01:21:38] Uh, it's, it's a very alcohol fueled kind of social dynamic.

[01:21:45] Uh, even in terms of like work relationships where you go drink afterwards with coworkers.

[01:21:49] And if, if she's part of this high powered office, she's going to be expected to do those sorts of things, even though there's different gender dynamics.

[01:22:00] Right.

[01:22:00] Right.

[01:22:01] Right.

[01:22:01] So it's certainly.

[01:22:04] And where do you meet people when you're of that economic class and those working hours?

[01:22:08] Hey, let's get for dinner to dinner for dinner at 7 PM.

[01:22:11] It's like, no, I'm sorry.

[01:22:12] I'm working until 10, 11 o'clock at night.

[01:22:14] Right.

[01:22:15] Yeah.

[01:22:15] I mean.

[01:22:16] And maybe the two of you are the only ones in the office.

[01:22:18] So you go grab a drink together and then.

[01:22:20] It's normal.

[01:22:21] It's human.

[01:22:21] Yeah.

[01:22:22] It's human, human involvement.

[01:22:23] Can I ask you a question?

[01:22:25] Um, so they said on their first date together, Solomon and Naomi from here on

[01:22:30] out, Solomon will only fuck over the people who deserve it.

[01:22:34] Do you think, did she deserve it?

[01:22:37] Um, I mean, it seemed like she had real feelings for him, but she was never going to choose him

[01:22:41] over her duty to her family to apparently not marry a Korean or marry this specific Japanese

[01:22:47] guy or whatever.

[01:22:48] Yeah.

[01:22:49] That's such a loaded thing.

[01:22:51] Like why was she into Solomon?

[01:22:54] Did she like him for him?

[01:22:56] Or is it like, you know, you alluded to.

[01:22:59] Yeah.

[01:23:00] Right.

[01:23:00] Is she, oh, he's a Korean.

[01:23:03] And, you know, she already has a history of, uh, uh, dalliance with a married American.

[01:23:10] Or, you know, separated, but still.

[01:23:12] Right.

[01:23:13] You know, an American with a family.

[01:23:16] Uh, is this a bit of rebellion?

[01:23:18] Yeah.

[01:23:19] Yeah.

[01:23:19] Yeah.

[01:23:20] Yeah.

[01:23:21] And I mean, he also seems, I noticed like a pattern with Hannah, with her, with her,

[01:23:25] he likes women who push back against him, who like talk shit to him, basically.

[01:23:32] He likes a, an abrasive, not abrasive personality, but you know what I mean?

[01:23:37] Um, uh, not, not, uh, not, uh, demure.

[01:23:41] Right.

[01:23:42] Not modest or what is it?

[01:23:44] Mindful.

[01:23:45] Mindful.

[01:23:45] Mindful.

[01:23:46] Right.

[01:23:46] Just a cool, what's the new and cool guy?

[01:23:49] Just a cool, cool gal.

[01:23:51] That's the one with the little bear character.

[01:23:52] I don't know.

[01:23:53] I'm seeing.

[01:23:53] Oh, you're ahead of me.

[01:23:54] You're cooler than I am.

[01:23:56] I'm sure John's way ahead of both of us.

[01:23:59] Yeah.

[01:23:59] He's on TikTok.

[01:24:00] This is the most interesting thing too, to me about Solomon's character is, is that we

[01:24:05] don't have a backstory so that when we jump in time, I don't have a reference of what his

[01:24:11] trajectory and what the story trajectory is here.

[01:24:15] His future is yet unknown because we're not looking in at 2025 Solomon, right?

[01:24:20] We're, we're here.

[01:24:22] And so it's this really interesting experience of staring into this fog bank of, okay, what

[01:24:28] is really going to happen?

[01:24:29] Who is Solomon?

[01:24:31] And what is Solomon going to get up to?

[01:24:33] And, you know, with his influence of his grandmother and, and these modern pressures, I really have

[01:24:40] to have season three and four, you know, if, if whatever they're doing.

[01:24:44] Well, we got, we have to talk about that nice moment of respite that we had when Sanja came

[01:24:49] for a surprise visit in Tokyo and she and Naomi end up meeting and cooking together.

[01:24:54] And in that moment you think like, oh, they'll just get married and it'll be happy.

[01:25:00] And it's interesting because this, in this story timeline as well, we have Sunja meeting

[01:25:06] this other guy and maybe having sort of a, a late, late term romance as well, which kind

[01:25:12] of goes busts, goes bust at the same time Solomon's relationship is, is hitting the rocks as well.

[01:25:18] Yeah.

[01:25:19] And yeah, his, it, that really helps him down that dark road that he's on.

[01:25:25] And so he actually teams up with Tom played by, what's his name?

[01:25:29] Jimmy Smith.

[01:25:30] What's his name?

[01:25:31] Oh, I forget his name, but yeah, he's, he's a, he's definitely a working actor that we,

[01:25:35] we know.

[01:25:36] Jimmy Simpson.

[01:25:38] Sorry.

[01:25:39] Yeah.

[01:25:39] So they team up to ruin Naomi's career because she had, during that dinner with Sunja, she

[01:25:46] had disclosed confidential information about the upcoming IPO.

[01:25:50] And, and basically they tell her she, she gets fired and they tell her that, and she's

[01:25:57] like, well, what about Tom?

[01:25:59] He did worse and he still has a job and like, well, you know, as a woman, you get one strike.

[01:26:06] Right.

[01:26:08] Rough.

[01:26:09] Yeah.

[01:26:10] Yeah.

[01:26:11] They, they frame it as you have to be an example to all the other women, which is on the one

[01:26:19] hand, you know, okay.

[01:26:20] But on the other hand, it's like, that means that you can't make any mistake and use every

[01:26:25] mistake you make to, to crush you.

[01:26:28] Right.

[01:26:29] I don't want to get too far off the track, but what's that Tokyo vice.

[01:26:32] That's what the show I was thinking of.

[01:26:34] There's an interesting character there where you have this high pressure newsroom newspaper

[01:26:38] thing.

[01:26:38] And there's a woman character who's again, walking these very narrow pathways like, Hey,

[01:26:44] you know, and there's straight up in the storyline about it.

[01:26:46] Hey, this is a man's world.

[01:26:48] And if you want to play, you know, we're going to, we're, you got to do this in backwards

[01:26:52] and heels blindfolded kind of thing.

[01:26:54] Right.

[01:26:54] We're going to give you unfair disadvantages.

[01:26:58] So I wanted to quote the vulture recap for episode six, because I thought they put this

[01:27:04] whole situation with Solomon in an interesting way.

[01:27:07] They said, Solomon's thirst for revenge is compelling, particularly if we think of it as a reaction,

[01:27:12] however, conscious against his grandfather, Isaac's ethos of mercy, where Isaac was all

[01:27:18] grace.

[01:27:18] Honsu was aggression.

[01:27:19] And the show suggests that one of these approaches is more durable than the other.

[01:27:24] And that cynicism is a reliable companion to survival.

[01:27:29] Wow.

[01:27:30] That's a really interesting insight that I'm glad you, wow.

[01:27:34] That's really interesting.

[01:27:35] I don't know if I could process that on real time on air.

[01:27:40] I don't know that we have the show's definitive answer on that yet.

[01:27:45] Yeah.

[01:27:45] Sure.

[01:27:46] Yeah.

[01:27:46] I think there's a lot more to develop before we can say that that's, you know, confirmed

[01:27:50] or not.

[01:27:50] Because I don't usually, I'm not drawn to cynical storytelling, but I think there is a

[01:27:55] certain cynicism, you know, as you're pointing out all these relationships.

[01:27:59] Like, it's like Luke's always talking about Silo.

[01:28:02] Like, he doesn't want people to get together because every relationship falls apart.

[01:28:06] In that case, usually somebody dies.

[01:28:08] But, you know, this in this show too, like any couple that's together, there's going to

[01:28:13] it seems like there's going to be some sad ending.

[01:28:14] So there is that cynicism, but at the same time, there's so much heart and warmth that

[01:28:20] it doesn't feel like that.

[01:28:21] You don't feel that sting.

[01:28:24] Yeah.

[01:28:25] I don't think that the message, like I can see where you could get the idea that cynicism

[01:28:34] is, you know, as it says here, a reliable companion to survival.

[01:28:39] And that that kind of approach is, you know, more durable.

[01:28:43] I mean, we do see Isaac, this pure soul die.

[01:28:45] We do see Noah, this pure soul go off to, you know, and disappear.

[01:28:51] And whatever, where the more cynical and more willing to get their hands dirty people are

[01:28:56] the ones who come out.

[01:28:59] Go on.

[01:28:59] But we also, like, we're not at the end of the story.

[01:29:02] Yeah.

[01:29:03] And Sunja is always moral.

[01:29:07] Yes.

[01:29:08] Yes.

[01:29:09] And the one time she is not moral with the bootlegging, she gets arrested.

[01:29:14] Yeah.

[01:29:15] But I wouldn't say that Solomon, like, Solomon is not a happy person.

[01:29:20] Right?

[01:29:21] Like, even as things he's doing succeed, he's not happy.

[01:29:26] Harrison never strikes me as a happy person.

[01:29:28] Well, I think that's why Solomon likes women who yell at him.

[01:29:31] But yeah, Solomon is Honsu's.

[01:29:35] I mean, sometimes it almost feels like if Noah and Mosasu weren't born at different times,

[01:29:42] you would think they were switched at birth.

[01:29:44] Right.

[01:29:45] Right.

[01:29:45] Right.

[01:29:46] Right.

[01:29:48] Yeah.

[01:29:49] So, like, I don't know how much, like, I don't necessarily, I'm not necessarily saying

[01:29:55] I disagree with the statement there.

[01:29:57] Just, I don't think we know yet.

[01:30:00] No.

[01:30:00] That's an interesting point, too.

[01:30:01] Yeah.

[01:30:01] We don't know yet.

[01:30:03] But David, I see.

[01:30:04] And I think that's part of what the struggle is, is like, what is Solomon going to do?

[01:30:07] Yeah.

[01:30:08] And David, I see you have a note that Naomi getting fired reminded you of the rice.

[01:30:13] Yeah.

[01:30:13] There was this whole thing with, when they're out in the living in the countryside and the

[01:30:21] rice village, farming the rice.

[01:30:25] And farming rice is a, like, it was a bit of an eye opener for me.

[01:30:29] It's a real collective process.

[01:30:31] It's a real process.

[01:30:32] I'm not just making my little vegetable patch and growing my own things.

[01:30:36] It really takes a collective effort to make enough food.

[01:30:40] Takes a village.

[01:30:40] Takes a village to make enough food so that we can survive during the lean years, you know,

[01:30:45] and over the winter or whatever.

[01:30:46] So there's all this effort.

[01:30:48] Not unlike the effort of, you know, putting into Noah to try to bring him up or, you know,

[01:30:56] in this with her work and then having all of that go up in flames.

[01:31:00] And then that's one of those circumstances of life where you're like, damn, this sucks.

[01:31:07] We put in all this effort.

[01:31:09] We have all these hopes and we have all these dreams and we have all these dependencies.

[01:31:13] And then poof, for whatever reason, it's gone up.

[01:31:17] And so just that circumstances of life, that disappointing of life.

[01:31:21] Sorry, go ahead.

[01:31:22] No, as I say, I think Nate had a similar comment in the notes about that with Honsu and Noah,

[01:31:28] you know, all the efforts and then Noah just gone.

[01:31:33] Noops out.

[01:31:34] Yeah.

[01:31:35] Wasted in a sense from Hansi's point of view.

[01:31:38] Yeah.

[01:31:39] Right.

[01:31:39] Yeah.

[01:31:40] And okay.

[01:31:41] So Solomon, he's getting worse and worse as the season goes on to be frank.

[01:31:45] But he does pay off his father's pachinko parlor for the debt he had for opening the second

[01:31:50] pachinko parlor.

[01:31:51] But Mosasu, this makes him uneasy because this is when he starts to realize that Solomon's

[01:31:58] getting close to the Yoshi family.

[01:31:59] And so he meets with the grandson Yoshi and says, I never wanted your grandfather's love

[01:32:05] and you know what I'm capable of.

[01:32:07] So this is another reason why we need season three.

[01:32:12] And Tom's now working directly on the golf course development with Solomon.

[01:32:18] He's not going to go, and Yoshi.

[01:32:20] He's not going to go home to his family, even though he's like, I just want to go back to

[01:32:25] my family.

[01:32:25] He gets the chance.

[01:32:26] He's like, nah, I'll take the money.

[01:32:27] Thanks.

[01:32:28] So it tells us who he is.

[01:32:30] And Abe, meanwhile, is found dead at the bottom of a cliff.

[01:32:33] And yeah, Nate, you said that's the obvious outcome?

[01:32:36] Yeah.

[01:32:37] So once they have Naomi sort of out of the way, so to speak, they're able to have Shifley's

[01:32:46] make the call to call in Abe's loans, thereby bankrupting Abe and whatever his corporation,

[01:32:56] whatever that is.

[01:32:58] And so we see, obviously that's going to be a devastating thing to Abe.

[01:33:06] And then this is something that will happen in reality as the crash hits and the Nikkei drops

[01:33:16] and companies start to fold.

[01:33:18] Is that one of the ways that the high executives deal with it is committing suicide.

[01:33:27] It's kind of an old school attempt to atone slash take responsibility for the mismanagement

[01:33:38] of the company that led to a bankruptcy.

[01:33:42] And so, you know-

[01:33:44] It's about shame too.

[01:33:46] It's a shame-based sort of thing as well, right?

[01:33:49] Well, yes.

[01:33:50] I mean, that's why, you know, you're taking-

[01:33:53] The shame of it is making you take responsibility for what happened, right?

[01:33:57] Right, right.

[01:33:57] So, you know, it's a very kind of old school Japanese approach to a very new kind of thing.

[01:34:04] You know, it's rooted in these ideas of, you know, the samurai committing suicide.

[01:34:09] Right, right.

[01:34:11] To atone for misdeeds or transgressions or whatever.

[01:34:15] Shout out to Shogun earlier this year.

[01:34:16] Yeah, yeah.

[01:34:17] It seems like so long ago.

[01:34:18] I know.

[01:34:21] So, yeah, like I was, you know, I was kind of expecting that to be the end of, you know,

[01:34:28] where Abe ended up, I guess, because that would just fit with the historical reality,

[01:34:35] but also kind of, you know, highlight the stakes of Solomon's revenge, right?

[01:34:42] Like, it's not just I'm ruining you or I'm making your company fail.

[01:34:46] You know, Solomon may not have intended or may not have expected him to commit suicide,

[01:34:53] but those are the stakes that we're dealing with.

[01:34:59] Yep.

[01:35:00] Okay, that brings us to, we have one last story, Ark, that we need to talk about in this season,

[01:35:05] and that is, of course, Sunja and her friend, new friend Kato.

[01:35:09] Kato.

[01:35:10] Kato, sorry.

[01:35:12] Okay, so she and Kato have a grocery store meet cute because Solomon's, he's having, he's going through all this stuff,

[01:35:20] and he ends up throwing a temper tantrum in public and actually says the words, I went to Yale.

[01:35:26] I was like, oh, man, I know that guy.

[01:35:30] So, yeah.

[01:35:31] So, I just have to interject here real quickly.

[01:35:34] I actually, so I couldn't find a clip, so I didn't show this scene to my students,

[01:35:39] but we did, I did use a still of it where they're talking to the grocery store bakery attendant who is so rude to Sunja.

[01:35:49] Right.

[01:35:50] And we use that as a way to explore the idea of, you know, these Koreans who, you know, they're ethnically Korean,

[01:35:57] they do not have Japanese citizenship, but they've lived in Japan their whole lives,

[01:36:02] they speak fluent Japanese, and yet still get treated like, you know, a foreign population and not good enough.

[01:36:10] And this was a perfect example for me to pull and talk about with the class to say, you know, say, like,

[01:36:17] because it's not even, you know, here, you know, Solomon has grown up his whole life in Japan.

[01:36:25] His mother does have a Korean accent, but still, you know, speaks perfectly good Japanese by this point in her life after decades.

[01:36:35] Right.

[01:36:35] You know, 50 years in Japan and are, but they're treated this way because, you know, the, the bakery makes a mistake,

[01:36:43] but the guy just blames it on the fact that, oh, well, you just can't speak Japanese.

[01:36:47] So it's your fault.

[01:36:48] Whereas I as a, you know, adequate, but, but definitely not native level speaker of Japanese, but I have white skin.

[01:37:00] Right.

[01:37:00] So I would go into this and this would happen, you know, if there was a mistake like this,

[01:37:04] they would be apologetic to me and, you know, I wouldn't get treated this way, even though I'm actually more of the foreigner.

[01:37:12] Right.

[01:37:13] So it's a very good, as we were talking about modern Japan and the, the way that different minority groups exist in it.

[01:37:21] It was a good example.

[01:37:22] Yeah.

[01:37:23] To pull from, which is why I love the show.

[01:37:25] Yes.

[01:37:27] And we, we saw Kato, he witnessed all of this and then he, I mean, I guess, what do you think, David, what do you think drew him to Senja?

[01:37:36] Why do you think he approached her later and wanted to become friends?

[01:37:45] Yeah.

[01:37:46] Yeah.

[01:37:46] The, I think, what's the laws of attraction?

[01:37:51] I don't know.

[01:37:51] He just, she seems like a, a, a whole person.

[01:37:56] Maybe that's a, you know, we, we walk around with a sense of ourselves and we kind of radiate that out in our energy, in, in the way that we, you know, present ourselves to the world.

[01:38:07] And, you know, I, in so many ways, the, so many things that she's had to deal with have been brutal.

[01:38:14] And for so many people that would just turn them into a stone, into a rock hard sort of force of nature and they're set in their ways.

[01:38:21] And, but yet she's open, she's playful.

[01:38:24] She's, she has this sweet energy that she's never let go.

[01:38:28] She's a, she's a grandma hottie.

[01:38:31] She's a grandma hottie.

[01:38:33] And she hasn't, she hasn't like turned into a, a sort of a fearful lump of coal from all the slings and arrows that she suffered throughout life.

[01:38:42] She's still an open hearted person.

[01:38:44] And that's, how is that not attractive?

[01:38:47] Right.

[01:38:48] Yeah.

[01:38:49] I mean, there, I was so into their romance, you know, especially the, the peak was obviously when they went to Mexican, you know, and they, she got to try margaritas.

[01:38:59] Margaritas.

[01:38:59] I had the same note in my outlines as well.

[01:39:04] Yeah.

[01:39:05] And yeah.

[01:39:05] And she, he wants to travel to the U S and she ends up giving him her savings, which is how we found out, find out that she does eventually get a restaurant.

[01:39:14] Yay.

[01:39:16] But her, but her, but Mosasu, meanwhile, he's not only, you know, worried about his son getting involved with the Yoshi family.

[01:39:24] He's worried.

[01:39:24] He's like, well, wait, who's mom hanging out with over here?

[01:39:27] So he starts an investigation into him and finds out that he is a war criminal.

[01:39:34] Um, now Nate, I know you were afraid he was going to be, it was going to be with Koreans, but it was with Americans.

[01:39:41] Right.

[01:39:42] So, um, you know, the, the, the first thing before we get even get into that, I want to ask your opinions.

[01:39:51] What was Kato's motive?

[01:39:54] What was, because obviously from Mosasu standpoint, he's worried about, you know, and, and we, we see this kind of bear out in facts, even if it's not actually what the ideas were.

[01:40:05] But he thinks that she's in that, that he's after his mom's money.

[01:40:11] Right.

[01:40:11] I don't think so.

[01:40:13] Yeah.

[01:40:13] I never got the sense from Kato that that, like, that this was all a, oh, I can con this woman into giving me her life savings.

[01:40:21] Like he doesn't even really ask for it and is very reluctant to take it, but she kind of almost presses it on him.

[01:40:28] Right.

[01:40:29] So I don't think there's any nefarious, uh, motive from Kato in going into this relationship.

[01:40:38] So I, I had a little bit of that fear, but then I, at the same time, I think I agree.

[01:40:44] I don't think he was, he was out for that.

[01:40:46] He was just trying to find connection.

[01:40:47] Right.

[01:40:48] And it did seem a little bit sus, but you know, I don't know that there was, there was nefarious.

[01:40:54] I'm a, I agree that there, I don't feel like there was nefarious intent.

[01:40:57] I think he really wanted to travel her to go with him to the U S you know, I think that was genuine.

[01:41:03] Yeah.

[01:41:04] Right.

[01:41:04] Right.

[01:41:05] So, um, but yeah, like as it comes out as to what he was up to, you know, it's, it's interesting.

[01:41:15] I was worried at first that this was going to be a, oh, I was, uh, in Korea in charge of

[01:41:23] Koreans and murdered Korean civilians.

[01:41:26] Uh, and so I want to, uh, kind of emotionally make up for that by having a relationship with

[01:41:35] this Korean woman.

[01:41:37] Right.

[01:41:37] And that's not, obviously not where it went.

[01:41:40] It was, you know, Kato was in some form in charge of, uh, American POWs.

[01:41:49] And, uh, I get this, the sense I got was that he was not the person who made the decision,

[01:41:56] but the commander who was given the order to kill POWs and then, you know, uh, carried out

[01:42:05] the, had his men carry out the order.

[01:42:07] Um, and of course this was, you know, unfortunately, uh, common that these, these, uh, uh, acts occurred

[01:42:18] and then the people who were involved were charged, uh, with war crimes as, you know, as they

[01:42:25] were, uh, these were war crimes.

[01:42:27] Uh, and so many, you know, some were, uh, executed and, and, or, or given jail terms.

[01:42:35] We don't really know.

[01:42:36] Obviously Kato wasn't executed, but we don't know if he spent any time in, in jail or whatever.

[01:42:42] And then after the occupation ends, many of them who were in jail were then released and,

[01:42:47] and so forth.

[01:42:48] So why did she break it off?

[01:42:52] I don't, I mean, can we say that he represented himself well in the conversation given, cause

[01:43:00] I did get the feeling he was low down, he was low down the scale.

[01:43:03] And, you know, he talks about, I just, I really love this conversation.

[01:43:07] I see here, you said you would show it in class, but he said, talks about the heat and the bugs

[01:43:13] and the way that they were made to fear the people they were hurting.

[01:43:16] And I have a lot of conversations with people.

[01:43:20] I love and respect who, who say they would do the same thing to people.

[01:43:24] They've been told to fear, even without like the heat and the bugs being at play.

[01:43:28] Um, as he pointed out, we were barely human, but I think it's actually all too human to

[01:43:34] take fear and turn it into violence because you lash out because, um, don't know.

[01:43:42] You don't know another way to exert control over your fear.

[01:43:46] This is another interesting aspect to me, uh, as a historian of them setting this in 1989,

[01:43:53] because, you know, I talked about it before, but 89 is kind of a watershed year for many

[01:43:58] reasons.

[01:43:58] One of which is the fact that the, the, the old emperor dies and it kind of opens up, uh,

[01:44:07] this opportunity for people to finally reflect back on, you know, particularly the wartime

[01:44:14] years.

[01:44:14] Cause he was so, uh, you know, connected to that.

[01:44:18] I mean, they were literally in the minds of, of the people fighting a war for the emperor,

[01:44:24] you know, as a deity.

[01:44:25] Right.

[01:44:26] Uh, and so when, once he passes away that this opens up, uh, for a lot of people who had repressed

[01:44:33] these sorts of memories to be able to come in and, and, and, and, you know, talk about

[01:44:39] them openly for the first time in 50 years.

[01:44:41] And, uh, I, I think that ties into this with, you know, obviously he's got these memories

[01:44:48] that he has repressed or that he has tried to escape, uh, and that, you know, he's, he

[01:44:56] has to process and, and, you know, sure.

[01:45:01] He certainly did bad things, but he also went through a lot of things, just the horrors of

[01:45:08] war himself.

[01:45:09] Yep.

[01:45:10] Um, I think it sets it up in a way to kind of answer your question, David, as to why she,

[01:45:18] she reacts at how she does.

[01:45:20] She doesn't yell at him.

[01:45:21] She doesn't like call him a horrible person, but she has to draw the line.

[01:45:27] And I think that line is, you know, you were complicit in a war that part of the whole point

[01:45:36] was oppressing, you know, my people.

[01:45:38] Mm-hmm.

[01:45:40] Mm-hmm.

[01:45:40] And so.

[01:45:41] It's kind of hard for me to hang with that.

[01:45:44] Right.

[01:45:45] Right.

[01:45:46] I mean, you know, her, her, her husband was killed or died as a result of treatment.

[01:45:52] He, you know, received as a prisoner as a political prisoner.

[01:45:56] Mm-hmm.

[01:45:56] Right.

[01:45:57] Mm-hmm.

[01:45:57] So she has very complex memories of all this, even though she's lived in Japan this whole

[01:46:01] time.

[01:46:02] Um, so I think that's, I don't think she like does so, does anything out of, uh, you know,

[01:46:10] hate or disgust.

[01:46:12] No.

[01:46:12] Or whatever so much as, as it is just like, you know, that's unfortunate, but I have to

[01:46:19] draw this line.

[01:46:19] Yeah.

[01:46:20] Right.

[01:46:20] I mean, she, she doesn't ask for the money back.

[01:46:23] She gives him a book.

[01:46:24] So I'm curious what you guys think the book might be, but then she goes home and throws

[01:46:27] out all the plants they potted together.

[01:46:30] Yeah.

[01:46:30] That was really sad.

[01:46:31] And I, I have some degree of sympathy for him because he was a soldier and what was

[01:46:38] his alternative?

[01:46:39] Mm-hmm.

[01:46:40] What was his, you know, he couldn't say no to those orders.

[01:46:43] He would have, he would have, he would have been put in the same position.

[01:46:46] He would have, and maybe even a more gruesome death for himself, you know?

[01:46:50] And so it's the whole tragedy of, you know, decent, normal people being pulled into this

[01:46:58] organization and this machine that has these horrible motives to it.

[01:47:03] And, you know, it wasn't like he was gleefully doing it and a, and a true believer, but he

[01:47:09] was, he was in the position.

[01:47:11] Yeah.

[01:47:11] As far as we know.

[01:47:12] Yeah.

[01:47:13] Yeah.

[01:47:15] Yeah.

[01:47:16] It brings up.

[01:47:17] So the reason I ended up not showing it in class, but the reason that I, that I want,

[01:47:21] I thought of it and I may use it in future classes is because it does show kind of the

[01:47:26] complexity of it.

[01:47:28] On the one hand, you know, uh, yeah.

[01:47:31] What, what else was he going to do?

[01:47:32] He's, he's put in this position.

[01:47:34] Uh, and if he doesn't comply with orders from on high, then, you know, who knows what's

[01:47:41] going to happen to him.

[01:47:42] But on the other hand, um, yeah, as somebody who has, who was in the military and has been

[01:47:52] in, um, you know, deployed situations though, clearly, you know, my experience was not as

[01:47:58] intense as world war two was, um, or sustained as long as we're sustained.

[01:48:04] Yeah.

[01:48:05] Absolutely.

[01:48:05] In those horrific contexts of day in and day out.

[01:48:10] Like, I understand the talk about the heat and the bugs and the things that you're going

[01:48:16] through and the way that it turns you into, you know, a non-human and, and acting, uh,

[01:48:22] towards others.

[01:48:23] And, and certainly that was a prevalent thing on both sides of the war.

[01:48:27] I mean, you know, uh, I don't, I don't think it's going to be surprising to anybody to say

[01:48:33] that, you know, Americans, uh, viewed the Japanese as non-humans just as the Japanese

[01:48:37] view of the Americans as non-humans because it was that kind of intense conflict.

[01:48:42] That's, that's how people are able to kill each other by.

[01:48:45] And, and, you know, um, but at the same time, like just me individually as somebody who with

[01:48:56] military experience, uh, I, oh, that doesn't, that doesn't, uh, uh, excuse, you know, you're

[01:49:06] still responsible situation does not excuse your actions.

[01:49:11] Yeah, exactly.

[01:49:12] Uh, and so like having met multiple Japanese world war two veterans in, you know, having

[01:49:21] been lucky enough to have that experience and talk with them at various times.

[01:49:26] Um, it's interesting because, you know, there's certainly an element of you, a, you were thrown

[01:49:34] into the situation, B, you know, given the way that you were raised in that, that society

[01:49:39] at that time, you didn't know any better.

[01:49:41] You thought you were doing the right things.

[01:49:42] You were brain almost brainwashed into it, but at the same time, you know, you still did

[01:49:49] it.

[01:49:50] Yep.

[01:49:50] Yeah.

[01:49:50] And you have to balance that.

[01:49:53] It's hard.

[01:49:54] Yep.

[01:49:55] Okay.

[01:49:55] Final rapid fire questions on the season before we get into feedback.

[01:49:59] Um, we're near the end.

[01:50:02] We're still feedback.

[01:50:03] Which would you two, uh, which would you say is your favorite season?

[01:50:08] Season two or season one, David?

[01:50:11] Oh, that's a, that's a hard question.

[01:50:16] I'm biased because I like the season two opening credits better.

[01:50:20] Yeah, me too, actually.

[01:50:21] And there's, uh, maybe a couple of moments, uh, where like with, when Sunja talks with Noah

[01:50:27] that are really impactful.

[01:50:29] I don't know, maybe it's a little Regency bias because it's the more recent one.

[01:50:33] I'm going to say season two.

[01:50:33] I got a big choice.

[01:50:35] Okay.

[01:50:35] I'll be held responsible for my actions.

[01:50:40] Yeah.

[01:50:40] Well, you know, the bugs in the heat are no excuse there.

[01:50:43] No.

[01:50:45] I mean, honestly, it's kind of hard because I just watched them, you know, back to back.

[01:50:49] Right.

[01:50:50] So I don't, I don't really have any sort of temporal separation between them.

[01:50:56] Um, I would say both are fantastic and there are elements, there are specific instances

[01:51:02] and elements in each one.

[01:51:04] Right.

[01:51:04] That just entrance me.

[01:51:07] Uh, the, for the, the, the earlier timeline, I think maybe season two, but for the 1989 timeline,

[01:51:17] season one.

[01:51:18] Yeah.

[01:51:19] Oh, interesting.

[01:51:19] That's an interesting way to cut it out.

[01:51:22] I think I just, I'm so angry with Solomon.

[01:51:26] Right.

[01:51:26] Yeah.

[01:51:27] Overall, I prefer the earlier timeline.

[01:51:30] Um, but I guess, yeah, I mean, season two, just because it's basically it's building off

[01:51:35] of season one, you know, so you just get more depth with these characters and yeah.

[01:51:40] Um, each of you, any more, any other final high points or memorable moment you want to shout

[01:51:47] out before we do feedback?

[01:51:49] I think I'm covered.

[01:51:50] I think we touched them all.

[01:51:51] Yeah.

[01:51:52] I think we've hit most everything.

[01:51:55] Um, I, I'll, I'll just say that the beauty of the show, as much as any of these individual

[01:52:02] moments or things excite me, what's really the, and why it makes it so hard for me to choose

[01:52:09] this season over that season or whatever is the way that it blends.

[01:52:13] And has such great historical continuity is simply amazing to me.

[01:52:20] Like things that show up in the first episode of season one matter as we're at the end of

[01:52:28] season two in ways that I don't even know that like people would remember, but you know,

[01:52:36] the whole death of the emperor that is mentioned on a radio broadcast in season, you know, one

[01:52:42] episode one hangs over everything till we get to the Kato's admission of his war crimes and

[01:52:50] whatever.

[01:52:50] And it's all just hanging there.

[01:52:53] And I love it.

[01:52:55] Right.

[01:52:56] Well, I mean, I think we have no confirmation of a season three and or four, but, um, we

[01:53:01] have no reason to think it won't happen.

[01:53:03] It's been a critical darling, but viewing numbers could always use some help.

[01:53:07] So if you love this enough that you've listened to us talk about this three weeks in a row,

[01:53:12] please encourage more friends to watch because, you know, it's, I'm sure it's not the most

[01:53:18] expensive show to make, but I'm sure it's not the cheapest either.

[01:53:21] Um, but the, and the showrunner luckily says Apple is encouraging them to explore where the

[01:53:26] story would go.

[01:53:27] So that's a, that's a, it's not off the table.

[01:53:31] Right.

[01:53:31] And Apple has been less, uh, wanting to just cut things off mid-story.

[01:53:36] They're a little bit more open-ended.

[01:53:38] Not mid-story at least.

[01:53:40] Yeah.

[01:53:40] I'm still bitter about them canceling after party, but all right.

[01:53:46] Should we take a break and get into feedback?

[01:53:47] That sounds perfect.

[01:54:01] And we're back and we have a listener feedback.

[01:54:05] Thanks to everyone who sent in for our general catch all email.

[01:54:09] You can send, you can always send feedback to lorehounds at the lorehounds.com.

[01:54:15] We also have the discord and we invite you to join us there.

[01:54:19] We've got a great mod team.

[01:54:20] We've got a really fun community.

[01:54:23] It's just, it's so nice to have a space where we can come and we can talk.

[01:54:26] And if we're have different opinions about things, people are respectful and curious and

[01:54:31] inquisitive.

[01:54:32] And, uh, we set up different channels and threads depending on the shows so that there's always

[01:54:37] a space to talk about all this kind of stuff.

[01:54:39] So come on and join us.

[01:54:41] Feedback.

[01:54:42] Alicia, do you want to start with, uh, Dally V's comment?

[01:54:45] Sure.

[01:54:46] So Dally V says, wow, just finished season one and I'm quite emotional.

[01:54:49] So good.

[01:54:50] I feel like I just, it just kept getting better and better.

[01:54:53] What incredible stories.

[01:54:54] So obviously, yeah, we definitely feel that same way.

[01:54:57] Uh, Dally V then chimes back in after, toward the end of season two, I was finally able to

[01:55:02] watch the final episode for season two.

[01:55:04] They just continue to create such a rich story, which stirs up so many emotions around the

[01:55:08] characters and paths they take for me.

[01:55:10] Love it.

[01:55:11] And we'll miss it.

[01:55:11] Don't, you don't have to miss it for long.

[01:55:13] I hope.

[01:55:16] All right.

[01:55:17] We have a comment from Abby and I'll point out that Abby does live in Japan.

[01:55:21] Um, this show is really knocking it out of the park week after week.

[01:55:25] Episode six, just caught up with the episode and I have very uncharitable feelings.

[01:55:30] Uncharitable.

[01:55:31] Yeah.

[01:55:31] Uncharitable.

[01:55:32] Oh, sorry.

[01:55:32] Uncharitable.

[01:55:32] Um, feelings towards both Misasu and Solomon, all these manly men with their toxic behavior.

[01:55:40] Why can't Sunja have a friend without him being put under a microscope?

[01:55:44] And the fact that he is Japanese and that is Misasu's reasons.

[01:55:52] Well, my guy, you've got a girlfriend who's Japanese.

[01:55:54] That's okay.

[01:55:55] Apparently.

[01:55:56] Ugh.

[01:55:56] It'll be interesting to find out the history between Beck and Yoshisan, the history between

[01:56:02] them.

[01:56:03] Um, yeah.

[01:56:04] And she's got notes on episode seven and then a post finale.

[01:56:08] So let's just quickly touch base on this point.

[01:56:12] Um, she's the one that ends up breaking it off after she learns.

[01:56:16] And so I'm curious as their relationship developed at some point, disinformation would have come

[01:56:21] out.

[01:56:22] She would have learned this, whether it was Misasu.

[01:56:24] Right.

[01:56:24] Forced it or not.

[01:56:26] Right.

[01:56:26] Does that make sense?

[01:56:27] Yeah.

[01:56:28] I mean, I wonder if it had come out through him, if that would have changed her reaction

[01:56:32] at all.

[01:56:33] Yeah.

[01:56:33] I still want to know what book did she give him?

[01:56:37] We must know.

[01:56:38] We'll have to go back and look at that because I don't.

[01:56:39] It's wrapped.

[01:56:40] Remember it.

[01:56:41] Yeah.

[01:56:41] Oh, maybe it's a, maybe it'll make an appearance in season three.

[01:56:45] Yeah.

[01:56:46] All right.

[01:56:46] Episode seven.

[01:56:47] She comments the Friday drop.

[01:56:49] It just doesn't work for me with this show too heavy and emotional to take on the end

[01:56:53] of a tiresome wig.

[01:56:53] I agree.

[01:56:54] Like that's why I had to just wait.

[01:56:56] And I would watch on Saturdays.

[01:56:57] Yeah.

[01:56:58] Yeah.

[01:56:58] Yeah.

[01:56:58] I got lucky.

[01:56:59] Uh, uh, binge watch it, which again, it wasn't that bad with all the yo-yoing of feels,

[01:57:05] they managed to make me weep for one character or another every episode this time, Kung Eve

[01:57:10] and Mr. Kim this week's, uh, cold AF prize is taken by Solomon.

[01:57:17] He's getting worse and worse.

[01:57:18] We sort of what we've talked to what you mentioned, Nate, that, uh, you know, we're, we're, we're

[01:57:23] really biting our fingernails here as to what Solomon's heart is, right?

[01:57:28] What is actions versus his heart?

[01:57:30] Maybe they're in conflict with each other.

[01:57:31] Hmm.

[01:57:32] Post finale, just quick observation that yes, Noah gave himself another name altogether,

[01:57:38] a Japanese one when he disappeared himself and might be why they couldn't find him.

[01:57:43] Wonder what happened to him.

[01:57:45] And if we're going to get something in an eventual third season, even with the Bondo

[01:57:49] versions of the name and the perfect Japanese, their given names are two telling Noah, Moses,

[01:57:55] Solomon, Isaac, Joseph.

[01:57:57] Yes.

[01:57:57] All very, uh, biblical, right?

[01:57:59] Uh, biblical names.

[01:58:01] Also with the, with any gambling adjacent businesses, the organized crime isn't far behind.

[01:58:07] Good job for showing that in the show a bit worrisome for the fate of Noah and all.

[01:58:12] Thanks, Abby.

[01:58:13] Uh, any thoughts on, uh, Abby's comments?

[01:58:18] Yeah.

[01:58:18] No, I mean, I, I agree.

[01:58:20] This is, I, we have hope because I just assumed Noah was going to die at some point.

[01:58:25] And now it's hope that maybe he's still alive out there somewhere.

[01:58:28] And the fact that he also got into the pachinko business, will that wrap back around in some

[01:58:33] way?

[01:58:34] Yeah, exactly.

[01:58:35] Yeah.

[01:58:36] Do you want to read a Davey match?

[01:58:38] Yeah.

[01:58:39] All right.

[01:58:39] So this is also divided by episode.

[01:58:41] So after episode two, yes, it's not an easy watch, but hell of an episode.

[01:58:45] Um, I was also really impressed with the filmmaking, like the opening with the bicycle and the kids

[01:58:51] with the gas mask and the way death just hangs over every aspect and how they tie that in with

[01:58:56] what is going on in Solomon's story was masterfully done.

[01:58:59] And we should point out that even Mike also lives in Japan.

[01:59:02] Yes.

[01:59:03] Um, happy after episode three, happy to see Anna Sawai and Jimmy Simpson back in this episode and older

[01:59:09] Sunja connecting with Jun Kunimura was sweet.

[01:59:12] I guess that's a known actor.

[01:59:14] That's the actor for Kato.

[01:59:15] Yeah.

[01:59:15] Okay.

[01:59:16] Um, a nice break.

[01:59:17] It was fantastic.

[01:59:18] I really liked it.

[01:59:19] Yeah.

[01:59:19] Yeah.

[01:59:20] No, he did great because you just, oh, you just wanted like, can't Sunja be happy?

[01:59:24] Come on.

[01:59:25] Exactly.

[01:59:25] Can't she, this woman catch a break?

[01:59:28] Yeah.

[01:59:28] Um, after episode four, I love that the show really complicates feelings.

[01:59:32] About Kohan Su.

[01:59:34] Another great episode.

[01:59:35] I was on the edge throughout between the awkward dinner and the driving at night.

[01:59:38] It was really just tense to watch these characters navigate their way through.

[01:59:42] I like how the audience, as the audience, we are put in Sunja's mind state when it comes

[01:59:47] to Kohan Su.

[01:59:48] Like her, like her, we soften towards him and grow to like him again and have a momentary

[01:59:53] lapse before being reminded of who he is.

[01:59:56] It's really well done.

[01:59:57] Mike, I don't know what you mean.

[01:59:58] He's never done anything wrong.

[02:00:00] I'm kidding.

[02:00:00] I'm kidding.

[02:00:03] After episode five, another great episode.

[02:00:05] Uh, the way they did the Nagasaki sequence was really impressive.

[02:00:09] When you go to the Nagasaki atomic bomb museum, the first thing you are greeted with is a clock

[02:00:15] that stopped at the time of the bombing 11.

[02:00:18] Oh, two AM.

[02:00:19] That was in my mind the whole time with the clock ticking as a title cards with days leading up to that devastating morning.

[02:00:27] And then, yeah, you were, you're nodding Nate.

[02:00:30] Yeah.

[02:00:30] Yeah.

[02:00:31] The, the way that they use this for, for both this and for the, when Noah's taking his exam at the same time that the North Koreans are invading.

[02:00:40] Right.

[02:00:40] They use the clocks in a fascinating way.

[02:00:43] So, right.

[02:00:44] 100% agree with Davey Mack.

[02:00:45] Yeah.

[02:00:46] And that's what he says.

[02:00:47] That was also the clock during that test was effective filmmaking and quite ominous.

[02:00:52] Um, and no opening title sequence that week, which was the right call, which is, yeah, that's true because you don't just watch an atomic bomb go off and then have people dancing.

[02:01:01] And yeah, the, um, he says the first place I lived in Japan was Kokura.

[02:01:07] And I remember the first thing I learned upon researching the city is that they were the first target and the city came to be known as lucky Kokura.

[02:01:15] Yeah.

[02:01:15] They were.

[02:01:16] Yeah.

[02:01:16] You talked about them diverting.

[02:01:18] Okay.

[02:01:19] Yeah.

[02:01:19] Good.

[02:01:19] That they, yeah, they were going to bomb Kokura and then, you know, weather and yeah.

[02:01:24] They went to Nagasaki after episode six.

[02:01:27] Yeah.

[02:01:27] I was cool with Musasu until he picked up that gift.

[02:01:30] And then I was like, best not be messing with Sunja's happiness.

[02:01:33] Um, and then he picked up the phone, uh, sad face.

[02:01:37] I was on the edge this whole episode and the Mexican restaurant was so sweet, but the whole situation with the bill made me think, oh no, this is going to end in tears.

[02:01:46] Isn't it?

[02:01:47] Hmm.

[02:01:47] Um, in honor of this week's episode, I went to a Japanese Mexican restaurant today and had a margarita though.

[02:01:52] Mine wasn't as fancy.

[02:01:54] I haven't had a good margarita in a while.

[02:01:56] Hmm.

[02:01:58] I was supposed to go for Mexican this week, but I had to work.

[02:02:01] Um, episode eight.

[02:02:03] Incredible.

[02:02:04] This is the finale.

[02:02:04] Incredible.

[02:02:05] I really liked how they handled Noah's disappearance, cross cutting it with Solomon's storyline and Abe's suicide in the news.

[02:02:11] I wasn't sure that Noah didn't actually commit suicide, but I thought it was a good way to show us that the possibility had to have been on their minds.

[02:02:20] And wow.

[02:02:20] Um, just so many excellent two handers in this episode.

[02:02:24] The standouts for me though, were the scene with Kato and Sunja, Kato and Sunja, and then Sunja and Mosasu.

[02:02:31] Just incredible dialogue and performances.

[02:02:33] They really do a good job of weaving these storylines together to like, they're, they're constantly sort of jabbing you, jabbing you.

[02:02:42] And then they boom.

[02:02:42] And then they hit you and you're like, Whoa, I didn't even see that coming.

[02:02:46] It's hard to take in the fact of what they've done sometimes too.

[02:02:49] Like if you can separate yourself back a little bit to get perspective, it is really masterful storytelling.

[02:02:56] Yeah.

[02:02:56] They thematically tie together so well.

[02:02:59] It's not just chronological or emotional narrative.

[02:03:04] It's they, they, they mirror and they, they call back.

[02:03:09] So just, it's wonderful.

[02:03:11] I want to see the red yarn board that they have to make all of this work.

[02:03:15] I don't know how you have a mind to do this.

[02:03:18] I mean, I guess we also have to credit the, uh, the novel, but we don't know how much, because again, we haven't read it in parentheses yet.

[02:03:27] Do you want to do Zatoichi?

[02:03:29] Yes.

[02:03:29] Uh, Zatoichi says episode three, I think old grocery guy is now my favorite character.

[02:03:36] Yeah.

[02:03:36] The transit, uh, episode four, the transition between the fireflies and the beating was incredible.

[02:03:41] Well done.

[02:03:42] Thematically fantastic.

[02:03:43] Soul crushing ending.

[02:03:45] Episode five.

[02:03:46] Damn this show.

[02:03:49] I always, um, I always say this, but best episode yet.

[02:03:54] Uh, the above just makes the storytelling so perfect.

[02:03:58] The second timeline being thematically link linked Noah's test and Solomon's test or plan both needed to get to the next level.

[02:04:05] I can't say enough good things.

[02:04:07] Episode seven.

[02:04:08] I really liked that.

[02:04:09] Yosef got his redemption moment and even better because the kids helped him.

[02:04:13] Yeah.

[02:04:13] I agree with you on that.

[02:04:14] It was so touching.

[02:04:15] The push and pull of how I feel, uh, about many of the characters is so good.

[02:04:21] This show and my brilliant friend.

[02:04:24] So it better than any other show that I've, I've, uh, I think I've seen pre finale.

[02:04:29] I may buy ice cream to eat after in case it's too much.

[02:04:33] Crying face emoji.

[02:04:34] Episode eight, just finished eight.

[02:04:36] And I'm not sure how I feel about anything.

[02:04:41] That's, that's an appropriate response.

[02:04:42] That is, uh, that means you're alive and, and, uh, feeling all the feelings in your life.

[02:04:47] Right.

[02:04:48] You need ice cream to help sort you out.

[02:04:50] You've ridden the pachinko ride.

[02:04:51] Yeah.

[02:04:52] That's right.

[02:04:53] Um, for Lisa after episode three says, sometimes I want to punch Solomon in the face.

[02:04:58] LOL.

[02:04:58] Smiley face.

[02:05:00] Yes.

[02:05:01] Lately I've been gravitating to the characters in the past.

[02:05:04] I'm extremely worried about them.

[02:05:07] Episode four.

[02:05:07] Doesn't Kyung Yi and Sun-ja deserve a little peace and love?

[02:05:10] Yes.

[02:05:11] Absolutely.

[02:05:12] I was so happy for Sun-ja when Houn-su brought her mother over to the farm.

[02:05:17] E-gads, Houn-su, what a monster.

[02:05:19] Your son Noah shows forgiveness for catching his old jerk of his schoolmate stealing eggs,

[02:05:23] but you beat the rice for him into, to a pulp because he stole chickens.

[02:05:27] Geez.

[02:05:28] On a separate note, I did enjoy older Sun-ja calling out Solomon and his corporate revenge

[02:05:33] shenanigans.

[02:05:34] I too felt disappointed with Solomon that he went back to, and convinced the widow to sell.

[02:05:39] I have a bad feeling about that whole transaction too.

[02:05:42] Great episode.

[02:05:44] Um, and yeah, Houn-su's, uh, Houn-su beats a man for stealing chickens, thus parallel with

[02:05:49] Noah's forgiveness.

[02:05:50] Yes.

[02:05:50] Yes, I assume it was retaliation from the farmer's people.

[02:05:53] So tragic.

[02:05:54] I was worried about Noah.

[02:05:56] We don't know what happened to him or why we don't see him in the presence.

[02:06:00] Only Mosasu.

[02:06:02] Yeah.

[02:06:02] Yeah.

[02:06:03] So I think, I think that last bit is referring to the rice, uh,

[02:06:09] barn being burned down with all of their rice in it.

[02:06:13] So.

[02:06:13] Oh, that, that, that was the retaliation from the farmer's people for beating him.

[02:06:16] Yeah.

[02:06:17] Okay.

[02:06:17] Okay.

[02:06:18] Mm-hmm.

[02:06:20] Episode seven.

[02:06:20] I cannot believe Solomon.

[02:06:22] He acts just like Houn-su.

[02:06:23] What a jerk.

[02:06:24] Then poor current day Sun-ja, just another man or son trying to control their ma.

[02:06:28] Shame on you, Mosasu.

[02:06:29] The raw revelations of the effect of the war on those who fought was so uncomfortable,

[02:06:34] but so well relayed in this episode.

[02:06:37] Mr.

[02:06:37] Kim, Yosup, Kato.

[02:06:40] Oh my goodness.

[02:06:41] So painful.

[02:06:41] That said, it was a wonderful episode.

[02:06:42] The show is a real treasure.

[02:06:45] And then the finale.

[02:06:46] Such a fantastic, beautiful episode.

[02:06:48] Very intense and emotional.

[02:06:50] The acting and cinematography was superb.

[02:06:52] Knowing what is going to happen with the Japanese market and economy in Solomon's time

[02:06:56] just makes it so much more foreboding.

[02:06:58] The revelation that Mosasu is also deeply involved with the Yakuza is really sad.

[02:07:04] I was worried that Noah committed suicide, so I'm glad that he decided to start over his

[02:07:09] life instead and just get away from Houn-su.

[02:07:12] Incredibly, older Sun-ja has found some sort of peace, so that makes me feel hopeful she

[02:07:17] is a survivor.

[02:07:18] Yes.

[02:07:19] She is indeed.

[02:07:22] All right.

[02:07:23] We have Danny.

[02:07:23] Well, here's me.

[02:07:25] Guy who complains anytime a show does a binge drop, but I started watching the show maybe

[02:07:30] two weeks ago, and now I'm caught up.

[02:07:32] I absolutely do not want to wait a week in between episodes.

[02:07:36] Love this show so much.

[02:07:38] I prefer the season one opening better, but they're both great.

[02:07:41] My wife is a title sequence skipper.

[02:07:44] And this show is becoming contentious.

[02:07:46] No.

[02:07:47] For me, it's like Peacemaker or X-Men or can't skip ever.

[02:07:52] Unlike that with GBBO, with Great British Bake Off.

[02:07:56] I just have to watch that every single time.

[02:07:58] Yeah, Peacemaker and X-Men are...

[02:07:59] I'm just happy that somebody else is a season one...

[02:08:04] Credit truther.

[02:08:07] So Skatuni says, after episode four, the show is so good.

[02:08:10] Every episode is perfectly constructed.

[02:08:12] I appreciate the historical notes from Nate as the first thing I do with shows like this

[02:08:16] is Google how much of it is grounded in reality.

[02:08:20] On Solomon, I find I'm quite sympathetic towards him.

[02:08:23] He clearly feels a lot of pressure to be successful.

[02:08:25] Entered a cutthroat industry and struggled to balance his morals with the nature of his work.

[02:08:30] Yeah, very like his not-grandfather Honsu.

[02:08:34] From the end of the last season, from what Sunja said to Hana, she seems to recognize she

[02:08:40] puts a lot of pressure on him.

[02:08:42] And I think we see in 1945 that she puts a lot of pressure on Noah too.

[02:08:47] I find the relationship between Solomon and Sunja one of the most interesting, even though

[02:08:52] it gets such little screen time.

[02:08:54] He obviously did a bad thing, but I think the reasoning behind being a broadly good person

[02:08:59] doing something selfish has been laid out really well.

[02:09:02] He doesn't seem to be greedy in terms of chasing money for the sake of it.

[02:09:06] It's also partly driven by feelings of insecurity about his family.

[02:09:10] As an outsider in the U.S., an outsider at home and mocked for the family business.

[02:09:15] Hmm.

[02:09:17] What was this line here about...

[02:09:21] Oh, what?

[02:09:22] Here.

[02:09:23] Trying to find...

[02:09:24] While you're doing that, I'm just going to jump in and say, you know, thank you, Skatuni,

[02:09:28] for the nice words.

[02:09:29] Hmm.

[02:09:30] Indeed.

[02:09:30] Indeed.

[02:09:31] Um, yeah, it was about Solomon and achieving and the sense of overachieving.

[02:09:38] And it's interesting because that work ethic that he needs to achieve in this world that

[02:09:45] he's chosen, the high finance world, versus, you know, contrasting that to Noah and the

[02:09:51] pressure that he's feeling.

[02:09:53] Mm-hmm.

[02:09:53] He's not doing it for himself.

[02:09:55] He has the whole community weight on him.

[02:09:59] Where Solomon could go and do something different, but he's choosing to be, to put himself into

[02:10:04] this pressure situation.

[02:10:05] So I just think it's an interesting facet of the differences between them.

[02:10:09] Yeah.

[02:10:09] Yeah.

[02:10:10] And about Noah, the only episode five comment is, I'm so invested in Noah's exam.

[02:10:14] And I always think about that comment because I'm also, was so invested in Noah's exam.

[02:10:19] Exactly.

[02:10:20] Um, after episode seven.

[02:10:22] Okay.

[02:10:22] I was wrong about Mosasu's concerns, not being related to the fact that he's Japanese, although

[02:10:27] it was all money slash control related.

[02:10:31] Also on Solomon, he's just getting worse and worse.

[02:10:34] Yeah.

[02:10:34] This seems to be the popular theory.

[02:10:36] The popular opinion.

[02:10:37] Seeing Naomi in the restaurant really has made him very cold.

[02:10:41] Yeah.

[02:10:41] Seeing her with his, her other boyfriend and agreed easily my show of the year.

[02:10:47] Pre finale.

[02:10:48] I have not read the book either.

[02:10:49] Hold on.

[02:10:50] Well, yeah.

[02:10:50] I just wanted to jump in and say, I think that first comment about Mosasu's concerns is

[02:10:54] not related to the fact that he's Japanese.

[02:10:56] It's talking about Kato.

[02:10:58] Yeah.

[02:10:59] He's talking about Kato.

[02:11:00] Yeah.

[02:11:00] Yeah.

[02:11:00] Yeah.

[02:11:01] Um, pre finale.

[02:11:03] I have not read the book either, but I was curious about this before.

[02:11:06] And I think that the first two seasons neatly cover the first two parts out of three.

[02:11:10] I did pick up the book last week and we'll start soon.

[02:11:13] Don't think I can wait two more years to find out what happens.

[02:11:16] And yeah, we know now that the book goes in chronological order.

[02:11:19] So they're also incorporating the end into these seasons, but, uh, I, we should, uh, read it and talk about it.

[02:11:29] Episode eight.

[02:11:30] That was dark.

[02:11:31] Definitely felt like the end of a second part of a trilogy.

[02:11:34] Earth sea vibes.

[02:11:35] When soon just started talking about shadows.

[02:11:38] Hmm.

[02:11:39] Oh yeah.

[02:11:39] Yeah.

[02:11:41] Yeah.

[02:11:41] Yeah.

[02:11:42] So much said about the weight of expectations, mainly on Solomon and Noah, but also in the

[02:11:47] backgrounds, Mosasu feels he has to shoulder everything that's left.

[02:11:51] Noah did say to him an episode or two ago that he had to step up.

[02:11:55] Also interesting the way Honsu and Shinja push Noah, but Mosasu is largely left to his own devices.

[02:12:00] I think this was alluded to in the season one finale as well, when Shinja is talking to

[02:12:05] Hannah about Solomon.

[02:12:07] Yeah.

[02:12:08] I think he didn't have the burden of expectations the same way Noah did.

[02:12:13] But yet he steps into the role and make sure that the family is financially stable ultimately.

[02:12:19] Right.

[02:12:20] Yeah.

[02:12:20] He has to actually do it.

[02:12:21] Yeah.

[02:12:22] Right.

[02:12:22] And it's such an interesting commentary on family dynamics and children and what sort of

[02:12:28] comes out.

[02:12:29] But then again, going back to that thought of when we're depending on our children economically

[02:12:36] versus not and how that changes, because Solomon doesn't have that same expectation.

[02:12:41] The family's financially fine, so he can go do whatever he wants.

[02:12:44] Where Mosasu really was like, well, I'm the one that's around.

[02:12:49] I got to be the one that's got to step into it.

[02:12:51] So.

[02:12:52] Yeah.

[02:12:53] All right.

[02:12:54] Is that the end of that one?

[02:12:56] Mm-hmm.

[02:12:56] Yeah.

[02:12:56] All right.

[02:12:57] Shane, episode four, the cooking scene was phenomenal.

[02:13:01] So intimate.

[02:13:02] Food cooked for your family tastes better.

[02:13:04] Yeah.

[02:13:05] That's a great line.

[02:13:06] Episode seven, finally caught up.

[02:13:08] Best narrative on TV.

[02:13:11] Pre-finale.

[02:13:13] Sad.

[02:13:13] It's ending.

[02:13:14] Happy.

[02:13:14] We have it.

[02:13:15] I am totally down with that vibe.

[02:13:17] That totally captures it.

[02:13:20] Wow.

[02:13:21] All right.

[02:13:22] Mothership 61?

[02:13:23] Yeah.

[02:13:23] Mothership 61 sent an email, says, you cannot imagine my joy when I saw the Pachinko Seasons

[02:13:29] 1 and 2 Part 1 podcast drop on my Spotify feed.

[02:13:33] I've listened to the Lorehounds for years now.

[02:13:35] I am a current subscriber.

[02:13:36] And this is my first time sending in feedback because this show deserves all the admiration

[02:13:41] it can get.

[02:13:42] Yeah.

[02:13:42] I'm surprised.

[02:13:43] I guess because we say the name Mothership 61 so much.

[02:13:46] Yeah.

[02:13:46] Thank you for being a subscriber.

[02:13:48] Thank you for being around for a Loremaster.

[02:13:50] And thank you for talking about this show.

[02:13:52] Yeah.

[02:13:53] This is one of the best shows on streaming ever.

[02:13:56] I am a lover of history and because so fascinated by this telling of the Japanese and Korean conflicts

[02:14:01] that came out of this year.

[02:14:03] First, we had Shogun.

[02:14:04] And then we got the next season of Pachinko, which will ultimately show us how the current

[02:14:10] nations of North and South Korea were formed.

[02:14:12] This story is heart crushing.

[02:14:15] And as you discuss the story again, and John would swell up, I too began to get emotional

[02:14:20] again.

[02:14:20] The acting, the set pieces, the cinematography, the generational storytelling are all just

[02:14:26] masters of their craft.

[02:14:28] When I think of the two wooden ducks and how Solomon just cast them into the trash and

[02:14:34] how later we find out how important those are.

[02:14:36] Yeah.

[02:14:37] Just crushes your soul.

[02:14:40] So, yeah, remind us, what's the duck story?

[02:14:45] I don't remember.

[02:14:46] I'm going to be perfectly honest.

[02:14:48] I don't remember it in the show.

[02:14:50] So I'll have to go back and look at it.

[02:14:52] But I do know that wooden carvings of a pair of ducks, which represent male and female,

[02:14:59] are fairly common in Korea as a token of good luck for a marriage or something like that.

[02:15:10] Oh, cool.

[02:15:11] You often see them sold, these pairs of ducks.

[02:15:15] So while I don't remember the specifics, I'm sure that's what it was related to Sunja and

[02:15:23] her husband or something.

[02:15:24] Gave them to him.

[02:15:26] And then we probably saw how she got them and now we're forgetting.

[02:15:29] Sorry.

[02:15:29] But yes.

[02:15:32] Mothership continues.

[02:15:33] We can all relate.

[02:15:34] We all have items handed down to us.

[02:15:37] But how will the next generation feel about our items?

[02:15:40] When I think about the anticipation of the bombs dropping on Nagasaki and we, the Americans,

[02:15:45] are the enemy, we are given such a different perspective on how horrible that decision was,

[02:15:50] but at the same time justified.

[02:15:52] Hmm.

[02:15:53] Hmm.

[02:15:54] Hmm.

[02:15:54] That's open for discussion.

[02:15:55] The beautiful scene of the boys sharing the incredible experience of fireflies, how

[02:16:00] Noah understood earlier that these are important little creatures, not knowing that they will

[02:16:06] become those beautiful lights, but knows that all living things are important.

[02:16:09] Then we are shocked for Noah when he asked to witness the violence of seeing Honsu brutalize

[02:16:15] his employee.

[02:16:16] And the breathtaking scene of watching Sunja, her mom, and Kyunggi fold Noah's clothes for

[02:16:21] him to go to school left me in tears.

[02:16:24] We understand the hard work that got Sunja to this point, but also the heartache of sending

[02:16:29] her Noah away.

[02:16:30] The sacrifices we as parents make in modern America cannot remotely compare to those of

[02:16:36] Sunja, but the feeling of having a child leaving the home, we can relate.

[02:16:40] It was such a good callback to, to season one where Sunja's mother is packing for Sunja

[02:16:49] to go to Japan.

[02:16:50] Hmm.

[02:16:51] Yeah.

[02:16:52] You know?

[02:16:53] Yeah.

[02:16:54] And like you, I too love the introduction.

[02:16:56] I watch it every single time and never skip it.

[02:16:59] I can go on and on and on.

[02:17:01] I'm a lover of film and prestige, prestige TV.

[02:17:04] And now I feel Pachinko is at the top of my prestige list with the wire, the Sopranos,

[02:17:10] the leftovers, breaking bad and better call Saul.

[02:17:12] I think everyone should watch this series in a college history or film course.

[02:17:16] Well, Nate's on it.

[02:17:18] Working it.

[02:17:19] Yeah.

[02:17:20] We as the people of this world can learn historical events through fictional characters

[02:17:26] and feel and see the survival of the people of nations continually torn apart by the governing

[02:17:31] nation.

[02:17:32] After the events of Shogun, the real Tokugawa Yasu would have, would stop the invasion of

[02:17:38] Korea by Japan for 250 years.

[02:17:41] Watching Pachinko reminds us that history always repeats itself and the eventual devastation of

[02:17:48] the Korean peninsula because of the Korean people, because Japan once again felt the need

[02:17:54] to conquer Korea.

[02:17:55] How did that go?

[02:17:55] Thank you so much for covering this show.

[02:17:58] Two episodes is not enough.

[02:17:59] Hey, luckily there's three.

[02:18:01] Appreciate all the work you do to bring us amazing summary and background information of

[02:18:05] all our favorite shows.

[02:18:06] Cannot wait for season three, Mothership 61.

[02:18:09] Well, thank you.

[02:18:10] That was a great email.

[02:18:12] Yes.

[02:18:12] And thank you, Mothership 61, for not only being a subscriber, but for being a fan of prestige

[02:18:17] television.

[02:18:18] Right.

[02:18:19] And having, and then just so, I don't know, I feel fortunate that we have such a great

[02:18:23] community of people who are just into these things and who love to share and talk about

[02:18:29] them.

[02:18:29] So.

[02:18:30] Yeah.

[02:18:30] And I also, you know, this is also why my, where my love of storytelling comes from, I

[02:18:35] think, is that I think that this is a way for us to communicate history, but also, you

[02:18:42] know, ask moral quandaries and get people to think about empathy more and the complexity

[02:18:47] of the world through these kinds of stories.

[02:18:50] Absolutely.

[02:18:51] I think that's a key element of what the Lorehounds community is and what we try to, what we're

[02:18:59] searching and questing for all the time, doing this crazy podcasting endeavor.

[02:19:05] All right.

[02:19:05] Last up, Marilyn, our favorite Tolkien scholar.

[02:19:09] Hello, David, Alicia, and Nate.

[02:19:10] I'm really enjoying your Pachinko coverage as I didn't, I don't ever expect to watch

[02:19:16] it.

[02:19:16] Nevertheless.

[02:19:17] Oh, she hasn't watched this.

[02:19:18] Marilyn's great about this.

[02:19:19] She always listens, but doesn't watch sometimes.

[02:19:22] Nevertheless, I feel I'm getting a good sense of the series.

[02:19:25] I enjoyed the discussion regarding cultural changes resulting from aerial warfare.

[02:19:29] It made me think of Tolkien who felt that aerial warfare was utterly immoral.

[02:19:36] You can imagine his dismay when his own son, Christopher joined the RAF.

[02:19:41] Also, his second son, Michael, was a gunner in a warplane and was badly wounded as part of

[02:19:47] his combat experience.

[02:19:48] There are some very moving letters by Tolkien in which he describes his concerns for Michael.

[02:19:54] On the other hand, Tolkien sent many letters to Christopher, which included chunks of his

[02:19:58] progress in Lord of the Rings.

[02:20:00] And we get some great insights into his writing process from them.

[02:20:04] Arigato, Marilyn.

[02:20:05] Can't be a Lorehounds podcast without sneaking in some Tolkien somewhere.

[02:20:11] And that wraps up our feedback.

[02:20:14] And this podcast.

[02:20:17] It's hard to believe.

[02:20:19] And this, yeah, this season one and two.

[02:20:22] Congratulations.

[02:20:24] Thank you.

[02:20:25] Yay.

[02:20:25] Yay.

[02:20:26] Can we take a shot?

[02:20:28] Yeah.

[02:20:30] Well, so this begs the question, are we doing a book club next year?

[02:20:33] Oh my God.

[02:20:34] We were just looking at the 2025 schedule.

[02:20:37] Yeah.

[02:20:37] It's going to be insane.

[02:20:39] Mm-hmm.

[02:20:40] Or just basic things that we need to cover as a podcast.

[02:20:44] Not to mention all the different ideas that we've been thinking around.

[02:20:48] So, I don't know.

[02:20:49] I could be in and on it if...

[02:20:52] I don't know that I could be the primary on it.

[02:20:55] I could certainly engineer it and produce them.

[02:20:57] Well, I'll do the writing.

[02:20:59] Okay.

[02:21:00] Nate, can you be our book club leader?

[02:21:02] I would absolutely be honored.

[02:21:05] And, I mean, you know, we can talk about...

[02:21:08] Just doing like a few chapters at a time.

[02:21:12] Yeah.

[02:21:12] Yeah.

[02:21:12] If we wanted to do it, like, we could also do it on the Discord as like a commentary thing

[02:21:18] and then do periodic...

[02:21:20] Mm-hmm.

[02:21:21] We can talk about it.

[02:21:22] Yeah.

[02:21:22] We can talk about it.

[02:21:23] But yeah, I think it's definitely...

[02:21:25] I almost feel like a professional obligation at this point to read the book.

[02:21:31] And if I can read it...

[02:21:32] I want to read the book.

[02:21:33] Yeah.

[02:21:33] ...with all of you, then, you know, even better.

[02:21:37] Yeah.

[02:21:37] So, listeners, if you're into this Pachinko coverage and you wanted to continue with the

[02:21:42] book club, write us an email, hop into the Pachinko channel in the Discord and yeah, let

[02:21:49] us know.

[02:21:50] Yeah.

[02:21:51] Let it rattle our change.

[02:21:52] Audio.

[02:21:53] I could maybe do the audio book.

[02:21:55] Maybe that would work for...

[02:21:57] I'm just trying to think of time of absorption, right?

[02:22:00] Audio books are still books.

[02:22:03] I am of the generation where I want the physical book, but I love the convenience of the e-reader

[02:22:11] and my time, my ability to intake and sit and pause and read is so much better served by

[02:22:17] an audio book.

[02:22:18] So, I'm like, I'm a mess.

[02:22:19] I feel like...

[02:22:20] A lot of people prefer audio books.

[02:22:22] I get it.

[02:22:23] Yeah.

[02:22:23] Yeah.

[02:22:23] No, totally.

[02:22:24] Cool.

[02:22:24] All right.

[02:22:25] Well, let's do just a quick round of what's going on in the world of the Lorehounds.

[02:22:30] Obviously, Alicia, you and I are doing Dune Prophecy on the main Lorehounds feed.

[02:22:34] We're about to wrap up with episodes five and six.

[02:22:38] And just so you know, we'll talk about it on episode five, but episode six coverage podcast

[02:22:43] falls right in the middle of the Christmas holiday stuff.

[02:22:46] We have a plan and we'll let everybody know on episode five.

[02:22:50] Netflix Christmas, what's going on in the...

[02:22:53] What kind of presents do we have under the Lorehounds Christmas tree?

[02:22:56] Well, we...

[02:22:57] So, we have already...

[02:22:59] There's out for subscribers an episode about the Christmas Prince trilogy on Netflix.

[02:23:05] There's one coming out at some point about the Princess Switch trilogy.

[02:23:10] And we have already recorded one with you and Anna Claus about, what is it?

[02:23:16] Our Little Secrets and Hot Frosty.

[02:23:18] What a pair of films.

[02:23:20] That was wild.

[02:23:21] Hot Frosty.

[02:23:22] You've got Wicked coming out next week.

[02:23:24] Mm-hmm.

[02:23:25] Yeah.

[02:23:25] We're finally recording that on Friday.

[02:23:28] And looking into 2025 and even now, you and Jean are going to have a great time spearheading

[02:23:33] the Comics Versus.

[02:23:34] I mean, I know Jean and I will be joining in on these things.

[02:23:37] But Comics Versus is going to be busy.

[02:23:40] Next year.

[02:23:41] Yeah.

[02:23:41] But you've got a little bit to wrap out 2025 with Joker.

[02:23:45] Yeah, we're going to...

[02:23:46] We have one last episode to wrap out 2025.

[02:23:49] It's...

[02:23:49] We already recorded it.

[02:23:51] I just have to engineer it.

[02:23:52] It's Joker folia du.

[02:23:54] We're finally...

[02:23:55] We talked a bit about that.

[02:23:56] But then we got into our first Versus episode.

[02:23:59] So, we pit Joker from DC versus a Marvel character called Madcap.

[02:24:05] Nice.

[02:24:06] Who's similar.

[02:24:07] And we talk about the similarities.

[02:24:08] And then what would happen if they fought each other?

[02:24:11] Very cool.

[02:24:11] That's...

[02:24:12] Yeah, that's the Versus shtick, isn't it?

[02:24:14] Right.

[02:24:14] Putting these things together.

[02:24:16] Besides just regular comic and live action and animated and paperback titles.

[02:24:24] I just put out an episode with Ian from the Captain's Pod.

[02:24:29] We talk about Star Trek, the motion picture for two and a half hours.

[02:24:32] And everybody's been giving me a hard time on the Discord about the fact that I think Star Trek 5 is better than Star Trek 6.

[02:24:39] But if you want to argue with me about that, join the Discord.

[02:24:44] Supercast and Patreon.

[02:24:45] Supercast and Patreon.

[02:24:45] More Netflix Christmas.

[02:24:47] And of course, our top 10.

[02:24:49] Alicia and I and John are going to get together next week to record our top 10s for what we're up to in 2025 so far.

[02:24:58] I know we've got some bridge shows, which always complicates things.

[02:25:02] Yeah.

[02:25:02] But we'll also take top threes from all of our co-hosts.

[02:25:06] And I think we've closed the subscriber submissions.

[02:25:10] Yes.

[02:25:10] John has all that data.

[02:25:12] Well, yeah.

[02:25:12] He shared it with you and I.

[02:25:14] I haven't looked.

[02:25:15] Pachinko made the top 10.

[02:25:17] Oh, nice.

[02:25:19] That's great.

[02:25:20] That's great.

[02:25:20] So if you want to be involved in that in the future, it's a fun subscriber benefit is being able to submit your top 10s.

[02:25:29] Silo is going strong over on your feed.

[02:25:32] Alicia, we'll shift.

[02:25:33] So we have the regular breakdown episodes coming out every Friday when the show drops.

[02:25:39] And we also have spoiler casts on.

[02:25:43] It's not the same Supercast Patreon feed as the Lorehounds.

[02:25:47] It's a separate Wool Shift Dust book club.

[02:25:50] So if you go to that feed, you can see the notes.

[02:25:52] That's where we talk about all the books, spoilery stuff.

[02:25:55] We have also mailbags in between.

[02:25:58] And we are doing a mini series on A Christmas Carol where Luke and I watched an insane number of A Christmas Carol variations.

[02:26:07] And compare them.

[02:26:09] There's a lot.

[02:26:09] Yeah.

[02:26:09] Did you get Scrooged?

[02:26:10] That was always.

[02:26:11] Scrooged is in there.

[02:26:12] Yeah.

[02:26:12] Okay.

[02:26:13] That one always stuck out of my mind.

[02:26:14] I haven't watched it in years, but I always like.

[02:26:17] We've got Properly Howard.

[02:26:19] They are on their season of A Few Good Movies where they talk about movies that are actor and writer and director connected to the movie A Few Good Men.

[02:26:32] So we just love Steve and Anthony because they're funny.

[02:26:35] You don't even have to watch the films to just enjoy their conversations.

[02:26:39] And Radioactive Ramblings.

[02:26:42] AJ and his crew are covering Arcane Season 1 and Season 2.

[02:26:46] They did a Season 1 recap and they're getting up to Season 2, aren't they?

[02:26:51] Yeah.

[02:26:51] I think they released the first episode of...

[02:26:53] Yeah, they did.

[02:26:54] But they released the first...

[02:26:55] Okay.

[02:26:55] Because they're doing the Season 2 and the arcs that Netflix released them in.

[02:26:58] Got it.

[02:26:59] Three in a time.

[02:27:00] So they're also doing the Red Rambler Rising book series, right?

[02:27:05] They're doing a little book club.

[02:27:06] Yeah, Red Rising is the name of the book series.

[02:27:08] Got it.

[02:27:08] They're calling themselves Ramblers Rising.

[02:27:11] Right.

[02:27:11] Oh, right.

[02:27:12] Okay.

[02:27:12] I got it.

[02:27:12] I got it.

[02:27:12] And then they did a coverage of Studio Ghibli, Howl's Moving Castle.

[02:27:19] With more to come.

[02:27:20] Yeah.

[02:27:21] Yes.

[02:27:21] With more to come.

[02:27:22] And of course, we have Nevermind the Music.

[02:27:24] Nicole and Mark are...

[02:27:27] They had a really great sidetrack about absurdly specific supergroups.

[02:27:31] They come up with a little system to...

[02:27:33] Like, how would you as a musician put a supergroup together?

[02:27:36] It's pretty funny.

[02:27:39] And I had put out a cross post on our main feed about Depeche Mode, Enjoy the Silence.

[02:27:47] And man, that episode just hit for me.

[02:27:49] Those guys, when they get into it and they start taking things apart on the psychological

[02:27:53] level of what the music does to your brain, it's so good.

[02:27:58] It's so good.

[02:27:58] So go subscribe to there, please.

[02:28:00] All of our subscribers.

[02:28:02] And of course, we have Severance.

[02:28:03] We have a release date for Severance Season 2.

[02:28:06] And Steve and Anthony from...

[02:28:11] From whatever that is.

[02:28:13] Properly Howard.

[02:28:14] And John and I are going to be covering that week to week as a sort of a four-person pod.

[02:28:19] So that's going to be a lot of fun.

[02:28:21] But we have a separate feed for that as well.

[02:28:26] And we've been re-releasing the Season 1 recap that Anthony and Steve did over there.

[02:28:32] So if you want to get up to speed, now is a good time to do that.

[02:28:35] I'm just trying to find the show tracker.

[02:28:37] We have a release date for Severance.

[02:28:40] It's in January...

[02:28:41] 17th?

[02:28:42] Is that right?

[02:28:43] Yeah, I think so.

[02:28:44] Yeah.

[02:28:45] So here it is.

[02:28:46] Yeah, the 17th.

[02:28:47] That's right.

[02:28:47] So look forward to that weekly coverage.

[02:28:50] That's a lot.

[02:28:51] That's more than is sort of sanely, humanly possible to produce.

[02:28:55] Oh yeah, we didn't even bring up what else is coming in January.

[02:28:58] We'll get to it.

[02:28:58] Exactly.

[02:28:58] We'll get there.

[02:28:59] We'll get there when we get into January.

[02:29:01] All right.

[02:29:01] So we've got an outro.

[02:29:02] And I know for all you Season 1 stands, I'm sorry.

[02:29:06] But are you ready to read the outro, Alicia?

[02:29:10] Here we go.

[02:29:12] Thank you to our Discord server boosters, Aaron Kay, Tilly the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas,

[02:29:18] Doove71, Athena Adjalea, Tina Q, Astu, Nancy M, Ghost of Perdition, Richard W.

[02:29:25] And thank you especially to our lore masters, our highest tier of subscribers, Samarshan, Michael

[02:29:33] G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O.H., Katina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Doove71, Brian8063,

[02:29:41] Frederick H, Sarah L, Garrett C, Eric F, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa, Andra B, Kwong Yu, Dead Eye

[02:29:50] Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Aaron T, Sub-Zero, Aaron K, Dally V, Mothership61, Na Rules, Kathy

[02:29:59] W, La Stew, Jeffrey B, Elisa Yu, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Steven N. And always last, Adrian.

[02:30:10] Thanks, everyone. This has been a great experience. I'm so glad to have had this opportunity. I'm not

[02:30:15] stopping this music. We're going to roll right all the way through.

[02:30:18] I'm so glad we finished.

[02:30:20] Seriously.

[02:30:21] Yay! And now we're, you know, eagerly anticipating...

[02:30:27] The book club, right?

[02:30:28] The book club, yeah.

[02:30:30] Right, right.

[02:30:31] All right, thanks, everybody.

[02:30:32] Thank you, Nate.

[02:30:33] Yes, thank you, Nate. This has been fabulous. Thank you so much.

[02:30:36] Thanks for having me.

[02:30:37] The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds. You can send questions and

[02:30:55] feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad-free access

[02:31:02] to all Lorehounds Podcasts at patreon.com slash thelorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours

[02:31:07] personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.

[02:31:11] Thanks for listening.

[02:31:12] We're going to take a break.

[02:31:24] Endlich macht unser Nemo Boards Shop

[02:31:26] dadurch auch auf den Mobilgeräten eine gute Figur.

[02:31:28] Und die Illustrationen auf den Boards

[02:31:30] kommen jetzt viel, viel klarer rüber,

[02:31:32] was uns ja auch wichtig ist und was unsere Marke auch ausmacht.

[02:31:36] Starte dein Test nur heute

[02:31:37] für 1 Euro pro Monat

[02:31:38] auf shopify.de

[02:31:40] slash radio