Skeleton Crew - E05-08

[00:00:04] Hey everyone, David here. The wait is over, Severance is back. The Lorehounds are teaming up with Properly Howard to bring you comprehensive coverage of Season 2. Join John, Anthony, Steve, and myself each week as we dive into this amazing show. Here's what you need to know. We've set up a dedicated feed for our Severance coverage. To join us, just search for Severance Lorehounds in your

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[00:01:16] what's shaping up to be an incredible season. Welcome to The Lorehounds Podcast. We're The Lorehounds,

[00:02:00] your guides to a galaxy far, far away. I'm John. And I'm Marilyn. And this is our coverage of the new Star Wars Disney Plus show, Skeleton Crew, episodes five through eight. If you're enjoying what we do and are interested in supporting The Lorehounds community, check us out on Supercast or Patreon. And if you're not interested in a subscription, you can help us out by reading and reviewing us on Apple Podcasts. Send emails to starwarsatthelorehounds.com or head to our

[00:02:29] website to send in feedback. Also join us on the Discord. We've got a fun and active community. We've got a great mod team. We've got channels and threads for Star Wars, Severance, Silo, all the S-words that you want to talk about right now. All the S-shows. That's right. That's right. And you can find links to all of this in the show notes in that little Linktree. Mm-hmm. So Marilyn, we recorded after episode four. We were going to do three podcasts this season. I think we ended up with two because I was sick right at the beginning of the season.

[00:02:57] But I think we picked honestly good points to come in because episode five was a real turning point. Yes. And the finale was great. So I think we have to talk about all of that. I want to ask you what is your hot take on this season? And by the way, full spoilers for everything Star Wars. Don't want to ruin anybody's experience here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just loved it. I really, really loved it. I was just reflecting tonight on

[00:03:28] the first season of Andor and how it came out of the blue and it was so unfamiliar to so many people and how many people were saying, this isn't Star Wars. What are you talking about? I think seeing this one, it helped me understand a little bit more what they were looking for. And I was, I was among them, you know, can you have Star Wars without a lightsaber? And turns out you can. But

[00:03:52] in this case, of course, it was scaled to a much younger audience. But it's very definitely Star Wars. And comic, also, you know, it's a little edgy. It's not quite as completely, haha, isn't this funny, you know, adventure type thing. I mean, there's, there is some tinged stuff, if not outright dark stuff. But yeah, handled very well, appropriate for the age level. And yeah,

[00:04:22] just a really great ride. Kept, kept you guessing on all kinds of things throughout the series without feeling like you're stuck in a mystery box. So, right. I thought it was great. Yeah, I did too. I think the biggest compliment I can give this series is that the kids felt like kids the whole way through. Yes. And that is something that you see messed up time and time again. People write kids as these adults in little bodies. And they're not. They, they act like kids.

[00:04:48] I think, I know you made a note about claimsies on the new ship. Like, it just felt really real to, to the kids. And, but at the same time, the kids were allowed to have character growth. Yes. Appropriate to their age. And I think that that was a perfect balance that was so hard to strike. I don't think I could do better. I mean, just fantastic job with this characterization. Mm-hmm. And I really do appreciate that. They told us up front, pretty much that Jod was a bad guy.

[00:05:14] They teased that he has moral complexity. Mm-hmm. But he did end up being a bad guy. And, and you know, more on the bad side than the good side. Yeah. And I, and I appreciate that they didn't do a sudden about face at the end. That was really refreshing to see. You know, the kids saved themselves and their parents stepped up a bit too. Yeah. But it wasn't just, just, Jod has a change of heart and they, it's not Vader throwing the emperor off of- Off of the cliff. Off of the cliff again. Yep.

[00:05:41] No, I mean, there was, there was one choice that he made that we'll get to, that you could say, okay, he clearly didn't go all the way to the, to the dark side, so to speak. I think he- When he could have. Yeah. Yeah. So, I, there's a particular point that somebody made, which when we get to that episode, I'll, I'll talk about as to why I liked that because it called back to that particular moment in, in his life.

[00:06:11] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think the kids, I like the fact that, as you say, they, they were allowed to be kids. Um, and I liked the way they handled their naivete. Mm-hmm. And that was woven into the, the fabric of the story in a way. That, um, there are certain points where, you know, Jod just gets fed up with their naivete

[00:06:35] and says, okay, take it over because you, we, you, we are not going to survive if you continue to be the one calling the shots and making the decisions. And, um, you know, he, he wasn't wrong. Right. Right. They really did not know or understand. And that's because of their upbringing, just as Jod's character was a reflection of his upbringing. So. Right. We all carry with us some, some less than good traits because of what we, of bad habits

[00:07:05] we learned as kids. Right. Right. Um, and we, and we have good, good traits because of what we learned as kids. That's kind of the point of all this. Mm-hmm. And if we're lucky, the good will outbalance the bad and we'll learn slowly to let go of the bad. Right. Right. But. Go to therapy, kids. Well, and you know, our environment has an awful lot to do with our choices. Mm-hmm. At the end of the day, it's takes a, it's very difficult to make a choice that runs contrary to your environment, but that is the right choice to make despite it.

[00:07:36] Particularly when you're what, how old do you think they were? Oh, um, I'd say no older than 12. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking 10 or 11. Yeah. Yeah. Max 12, maybe Fern at like 12. She seemed a little bit older, but it could be that she was, uh, no, cause she was in the same age, same grade as them. Right. I thought they were all in the same grade. Yeah. Yeah. So they're probably all like 10 or 11. I think, um, she was just the one who knew how to like put up a tough front.

[00:08:06] That. And also I think she was accustomed to the very high expectations of her mother who had a very high position in, in that community. Right. And so, and express them to her and expected her to be better than perfect. Yeah. So she did her best. Well, we like the kids have a lot to learn about pirates. So let's start off with episode five. You have a lot to learn about pirates. Well, their parents try to contact them.

[00:08:35] The kids head to La Nupa, the lair of their ship's last captain, Tak Renad. There they find a resort where one of Jod's victims recognizes him and calls the other pirates. They get to the lair and find the coordinates, but Jod challenges Fern for the role of captain and wins. Jod heads toward the ship while the kids escape through a trap. Jod also takes a blue lightsaber.

[00:09:03] Can I say, I really loved that we got a little Indiana Jones in here. Absolutely. I said exactly the same thing. I mean, I've been playing. So I don't know if you know Marilyn, but they just came out with an Indiana Jones video game. Uh-huh. And it's, it's basically like a new story in the universe. They had a voice actor, Troy Baker, uh, pretend to be Harrison Ford essentially. But they, but the character looks like Harris, a young Harrison Ford. Nice. And so it's kind of like supposed to be a lost movie.

[00:09:29] And I'm so into this like adventure thing right now. And when we did this, I was so happy that, that we were kind of channeling some of that because Star Wars and Indiana Jones, you know, same company. They've, they've overlapped, same creator. They've overlapped a little bit in vibe. Yeah. Yeah. And in, um, production studios that they go to for special effects and a whole bunch of other things. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I also had a note about, uh, Indiana Jones.

[00:09:55] There was even a touch of Cthulhu in the, uh, the tentacle monster, uh, Cthulps. Yes. Yes. You're right. In this hot pool. Um, it was very nice of him, it, whatever, to help out the kids when the kids needed a hand or a tentacle in this case. I did enjoy Cthulps and how Cthulps was just perfectly nice at the end. That was nice. That was fun. Yeah. Like you think you're going to have a big battle watcher in the water kind of thing. Mm-hmm. And you just don't. Yeah.

[00:10:23] And I liked that it was Neil who figured out how to locate the all-important, um, device that, that would project Reddit's, uh, diary, if you will. And, and the, the method of actually getting what they were there for. Yeah. Neil, Neil is smarter than a lot of people give him credit for. I mean, an elephant never forgets. So I'm sure he's, he's at one point read something about pipes. Sure.

[00:10:51] Well, it was, it was the whole thing of, um, observation. Yeah. You know, he looked at the table and he said, yeah, everything else is rotten but this. I wonder what that means. Right. Click. Oh yeah. Yeah. That was good too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That was very observant of Neil. So what else about this? We have Tak Renod. We, we find out that he's, you know, this great pirate that was legendary.

[00:11:19] Look, honestly, I'm just upset that every time we see pirates in any Star Wars show, I just want Hondo and I never get him. Aww. I just never get him. I bet you weren't alone in that. He's not died in any material that I'm aware of. He can be anywhere. He's an alien race, so we don't know how long he lives. I, I want Hondo. I just want Hondo in live action.

[00:11:41] Well, you know, Hondo is something of an independent operator and I think he probably has too much of a soft heart to hang around with this crew. That could be. So that may be why he just wasn't brought in. That could be. I always, Hondo's my favorite because when Ezra betrays him at one point in Rebels, he goes, oh, I'm so proud of you. Yes, yes. You learned from me. It's such a shining moment, isn't it? Yep. Yep. Yep. What else you got for me, Marilyn?

[00:12:09] Well, it was interesting to see. It seems that Jod has even had some lightsaber training. You know, at this point in the series, we weren't really sure what his background was. Mm-hmm. You know, was he a Jedi, wasn't he a Jedi? How come he could use the Force, et cetera, et cetera? So, you know, the fact that he could handle a lightsaber suggests that, yeah, he must have had some at some point. Right. And so, that was nice.

[00:12:34] And it was really, it was hard to watch the kids learn this elemental lesson that life isn't always fair. Not outside at Aten anyway, you know, because that was their standard for, you know, how the world behaves. Right. And they were bored with it. And they wanted excitement. And so, they found out exactly what excitement can entail. And it was kind of too bad. Yeah, it was. It was.

[00:13:01] And of course, we get Pocket over here, who is not happy. Oh, no hard feelings. No hard feelings. And Jod immediately is like, we got to get the hell out of here. Right. Let's, let's out ski as fast as we can. And I think that's probably why Jod took some, what could be perceived as extreme steps to end Fern's captaincy at that point. Because he really understood that it was their necks that were on the line here.

[00:13:31] And they had to be as fast as they could. If he has to put them in the brig, then so be it. Because he's got to be able to call the shots. Right. Because he's the only one who knows about the dangers. Except, of course, for Smee. But I call 33 Smee because that's the visual that I get. But at the same time, he's been disabled, right? He's been combat disabled at this point. Right. So what is Jod really getting out of seizing being captain here? He's getting to call the shots. He's getting to make the decisions.

[00:14:01] He's getting to be, you know, standing at the forefront and doing what he does best. Which is, you know, I don't know all the proper poker terms. But basically pretend that he's got four kings and four aces when he's got, you know. Bluff, I guess. Yeah. That's the word. Bluff. Yes, indeed. He knows how to bluff his way out on. Of course, the problem is that all the people who are coming for them are people who he has bluffed before. Right. And they already know that they will never trust him any further than they can throw him. Right.

[00:14:30] But he's, I think he just felt, you know, kids, too much of a chaotic unknown factor in terms of what they might or might not choose to do. Yeah. And so, for the sake of all their skins, he had to take over. And this was the most efficient way that he knew to do it. Even though it meant, you know, holding a knife to Fern's throat. And, of course, you come to that question, you know, would he actually have slithered throat or not?

[00:15:00] And let's keep that question in mind when we come to the final episode of the series. I got incredible Pirates of the Karen Vian vibes from, you know, Captain Renon. Okay. What character is the first mate who mutinies Jack Sparrow and takes the pearl? Oh, it's Bar something? Barbossa. Thank you. Barbossa. Thank you. It takes two.

[00:15:32] I haven't watched that one in a while. No, I haven't either. He definitely feels like a Barbossa character to me. And I love that throughout the series, they're pulling from the best known pirate shows and books. Although, of course, the other main one, Treasure Island, has been in a number of visual representations over the years. Right. It's fun when every so often you get that reference. And I don't know it all that well.

[00:16:00] I mostly know the names and so forth from reading completely different series by Arthur Ransom about some kids who love to sail on the lakes in the northwest part of England. And the two of them are pirates. And so, their uncle is Captain Flint. And, you know, I didn't know from Captain Flint until I finally said, I guess I better read Treasure Island. So, I did. That makes sense. I know Davey Mack has something to say later, right? Yes.

[00:16:30] About Treasure Island. I pulled that out. We'll talk later. We've got that. We've got another piece of feedback written. And then we have a voicemail from Alicia and a voicemail from David this week. Woo-hoo! But they all pretty much have to do with the last episode. So, I'm going to play that right at the very end. Sounds like a plan. All right. Why don't we move on to the next episode? Episode 6? Yes. Zero Friends Again. So sad. It really is sad watching the betrayal of these kids and see them having to, like, reevaluate themselves after trusting someone. Yeah.

[00:17:00] And, of course, reevaluating the ones they trusted. Yep. So, Jod is captured by his old crew. The kids split up after failing to agree on how to get back to the Onyx Cinder. Wim and KB follow crabs to a trash heap where Wim has to repair KB's electronic components to save her life. Fern learns she has to meet people like Neil where they are. The crew gets back to the ship just in time for it to be trapped by the garbage disposal. They blow up the hull and escape in the inner ship.

[00:17:30] That was such a great device. I know. I did not see that coming at all. Yeah. I was like, what are they going to do? Are they going to, like, fly into it and then out the back or something? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they introduced the expel, what is it, expel hull button. Yeah. It was check out of expel hull. Very early. Right. Right. That's the one. That's the one. I don't think it was the first episode. It wasn't until they picked up Jod and he was in the ship for the first time. So, I think that was episode two.

[00:17:59] But they definitely laid the groundwork for that. And I suspected that this was what was going to bring them back together. You know, I hadn't caught up that, you know, all the little bitty crab machines that kept repeating their words were, had a mama crab out there that was going to, you know, food, food, food. Oh, oh, oh dear. That means us. Yep. Yep. But I did, I did really like, I see that you have some, some jazz handing comments here,

[00:18:28] but I did really like the sequence of KB calmly leading Wim through her repair while she's internally freaking out. That showed a tremendous strength of character. Yes. That, that was one of my favorite scenes in the entire series. And even Wim, like I, you know, listening to someone's instructions when you don't really know what you're doing, that's tough too. Sure. Sure. And particularly when the stakes are that high and you, you know, he can see her visibly

[00:18:57] deteriorating before him. Um, but he doesn't panic. I mean, good on him. Right. Right. He follows the instructions, you know, melting down and refreshing a new widget to put inside her head. Okay. That's a little jazz handy. That was the jazz handy bit, but it was just a lovely scene overall. And, um, I particularly loved that she thanked him by saying, thanks Jedi. Yep. That was cute. That was very cool. And it was great to see KB finally coming out from under Fern's shadow.

[00:19:28] Yeah. As her own person after Fern had discounted the possibility of her rusting and just hadn't listened to her. Yeah. You know, which, which is, you know, something that Fern needs to figure out too. And I think she does a little bit by the end of this, you know, she goes, when Neil's going, I can't climb like you, he's not, he's not KB where he's afraid to speak up. Right. He's used to whim actually listening to him. Yes. And so she's forced to do that.

[00:19:54] And I think by the end, KB and Fern are able to embrace because Fern learned her lesson and also KB learned to speak up a little bit more about writing something. Right. Which is wonderful how the, the dynamic of, you know, the pairing off that way gave each of those two of the two women a chance to figure out what it was they needed to do. And KB owns it too.

[00:20:18] She said, you know, when, when they're reconciling, KB says, you know, I, I wasn't being firm enough when I told you what I needed. I need to speak up more. So. Right. Well done, everybody. Now I was wondering if you or David are cross with them for the way they create some of their names, because I distinctly remember from the foundation series that you had a real beef to pick with them about, you know, taking names that are familiar to us and just spelling them

[00:20:48] differently and expecting them to appear to come from a different time or universe or whatever. So, I mean, we've got Neil N-E-E-L instead of N-E-I-L. Um, and I know there was another one, but I'm not, I'm not remembering it right now. So, so this did not get up your nose this time. It didn't bother me here. I think cause it was one, you know, and, and also it's star Wars. So it's way more removed from us. And so I'm fine with the names just being totally original with foundation. I think the reason it bothers me is that it's supposed to be like an iteration on our time.

[00:21:17] So they're like, well, look, it's your name, but not really. And it just feels a little bit cute to me, like too cute. And so here I'm going, all right. Yeah, that's fine. It did. I didn't even cross my mind. I didn't think it had, I didn't think it had enough. That's interesting. Yeah. Maybe I'm just being a double standard with star Wars. I think, I think I'm just in general more willing to give star Wars grace because it, one, this is a kid show and two, this is something that has always been a little campy.

[00:21:47] Okay. All right. All right. I can see that. Whereas foundation is trying to make a very serious show that's taking itself seriously. And so if you're going to do that, I'm going to judge you more harshly. See, as, as something of a linguist, philologist, whatever, mostly just enjoying it all. I do know that spelling changes over time. Sure. So that's always. I'm still going to complain about it. Go right ahead. I can complain on my own podcast. You just go right ahead.

[00:22:17] I won't stop you. Oh boy. And I loved the, um, the claims he's on our new ship, uh, that kind of seemed to stand in for the pirate code for kids. Yeah. Instead of having to challenge the captain to have dual to the death or whatever, they just say claims he's. Oh, and speaking of pirate talk, why in the world can, are pirates still talking about build rats? Build rats. There's absolutely no context for build rats whatsoever.

[00:22:45] I mean, you know, I'll be one can. No, we went to a diner. That's that's all I'll say. He went to a diner in episode two. Oh, a 1950 style diner in episode two. Like episode two attack of the clones. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, right. So do. Did he talk about build rats? No, but I'm just saying he went to like a 1950s diner. So sometimes you're just going to have anachronisms and out of universe isms and star wars.

[00:23:12] I, you know, you know, I liked, I liked the first one that they, they did when the pirates were boarding. The ship and they use exactly the same technique of grappling hooks, pulling them closer together. And then the pirates going through the grappling hooks onto the, the captured vessel. That was very cool.

[00:23:35] So translated from ropes and hooks and whatnot to, you know, defensive gang planks or something. Pirates are pirates, no matter how small. I suppose that's true, but it's, it's just neat to see how they keep referring back to 17th century conventions. Yeah. Because this is what pirates are now. You know, this is the romantic image of pirates.

[00:24:03] We're not talking about, you know, pirates on the Sudan from Sudan who are, you know, Sure. Seizing oil tankers and whatnot. I don't think they talk about build rats or use grappling hooks anymore. Even, even the European pirates and the, you know, the pirates that were Western European, but, you know, hanging out in the Caribbean. I mean, they were brutal in real life. It was just this romanticized version that we, we tell ourselves now this pirate code kind of thing. Like, no, they were just, they were just people doing bad things because they wanted money.

[00:24:31] Well, there was a pirate code actually, and it was adhered to by and large. There was a fair amount of democratic behavior going on. Interestingly enough, not on all ships, but on a lot of ships. Yeah. Well, like, like everyone, they are diverse in their morality and opinions. Well, they felt that they were forming their own community because their other communities had, had rejected them. Yo-ho. You know, the whole thing about sharing treasure equally and all that kind of stuff.

[00:24:58] I mean, it's, it's interesting that the history of pirates in the 17th century is actually an interesting topic to explore sometime. I'll put it on the list. Okay. If you got a good book for me, recommend it. I don't know that I do, but I'll, I'll think about it. All right. Anything else on this episode? I mean, I think this was just really the, the heartwarming bonding episode. Yes. Not a lot of substance, right? Oh, I think that's the essence of substance. But you know what I mean?

[00:25:26] It's, it's not a lot of plot. Not a lot of plot. It was mostly an emotional journey. Well, I suppose it doesn't move the story along, but as you were saying, the fact that they give the kids their arcs. Yeah. Makes them more than two dimensional. So. Absolutely. To my mind, that makes it very important. Something we didn't talk about last episode really was this spa thing. Like the fact that there's pirates. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you like that? That they made the pirates, you know, treacherous island into a spa?

[00:25:57] I, I, I kept thinking the, the, the hostess looked too much like somebody off of the airplane. So I'm thinking, oh, this is, this is TWA's or NM's. I, I, I often call that iPhone face. Oh, really? No. It's, it's when you're watching a historical drama and somebody looks too modern, you say that they have iPhone face because that means they, it looks like they've seen an iPhone. Oh, oh, oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:26:25] But it was an interesting way of representing, you know, what filthy rich people can like or like to do with their, their money and their time and so forth. Right. None of which appealed to me in the slightest, but you know, we all have our different, we all have our different codes and whatnot. I'm not a spa guy. I gotta say. Nope. All right. Well, let's take a quick break. When we get back, we'll do the second half of this second half of the season. And we will get in trouble.

[00:27:13] And we're back. All right. Time to talk about the next episode. Episode seven. We're going to be in so much trouble. The kids' parents successfully get a message to space warning the kids about the barrier. The pirates arrive at Ad Aden and sentence Jad to death, but he talks his way out of it and convinces them to allow, to follow him to the planet. When the kids arrive, he realizes their ship is the key as one from at Ad Aden.

[00:27:41] The kids and SM33 capture Brutus, but Jad kills Brutus and takes control of the pirates. SM33 incapacitates the other surrounding pirates, but Jad decapitates the droid and takes the kids hostage on their own ship. He poses as a Republic emissary, gets down to the vaults on at Ad Aden and draws his lightsaber in front of the kids and their parents. That's a lot of trouble. It is. It is.

[00:28:08] And there's some things here that they don't ever really kind of explain. Okay. Maybe I should wait until the last episodes, but concerning this ship, and it just happens to turn out to be a Republican emissary ship that can actually be the only kind of ship that can get through the barrier. I mean, very convenient, but if that's the case, why was it buried on the surface of the planet of Ad Aden?

[00:28:38] Well. And who buried it there? I assume that it was that, well, they said that it was crashed by the captain, like he locked the control so it crashed in. Which captain? Renaud. Okay. So then how did Renaud get from there back to the spa planet? Because that seemed to be his... Was he there? I guess there was a skeleton there, right? But was that Renaud? Well, his image was there. Oh, you mean the skeleton on the ship was Renaud? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's an interesting thought.

[00:29:08] Yeah, no, I don't think Renaud ever got back to his lair. I think he died on Ad Aden. Because they said that his, I think it was his lover, they said, betrayed him. And because she was going to kill him anyway, he locked the controls to kill everybody on the ship. Huh. No, I missed that entirely. When did that happen? That was, it was in one of the last couple episodes. I don't remember. SM-33 told them, though.

[00:29:36] Well, that figures, because he's definitely our front load narrator. He's our historian. Our historian and our educator. Yeah. Yeah. So if the ship was crashed there, I guess they were expecting that ship to keep going back and forth, but it had been stolen. And then when the Republic fell, it really stopped. And probably the supervisor was never told to stop producing.

[00:30:06] So they were just like, yeah, we'll just keep doing what we do. Whenever they get here, they get here. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, that, I mean, that makes perfect sense, particularly considering when we discover who the supervisor actually is. Right. Right. Yeah. What is time to a droid? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. I really liked the theme music for Bruce's pirate ship.

[00:30:33] It was definitely pirate music with Star Wars flourishes. I thought they did that extremely well. Would have been better with Honda, but I get it. Well, you could listen to it, you know, completely outside of the whole context and recognize A, pirates, and B, Star Wars. Mm-hmm. From the way he handled it, I thought that was a lot of fun. And, you know, it's me getting it to Avocated.

[00:31:02] He's a lovely, been a lovely wild card throughout the show, I thought, at the time. Remember, this was before we'd seen the whole thing. Right. And I didn't think that he was finished. I thought, well, any droid side can be, you know, restarted or whatever, particularly with a KB around to know the technical details. But at this point, we don't know that. And I thought he might even serve as a final explanation provider at the end. Something that really caught my attention, and I wonder why they did this.

[00:31:32] In the meeting room, where the parents are sitting there, and they did this lingering shot, first with the character in front of it, and then the character walking away, of an Art Deco style bas-relief on the wall. It's behind the security droid talking to the parents. With these, there's actually three humanoid figures. And at first, I thought, mortise gods?

[00:32:02] And then I thought, no, they don't look like mortise gods at all. But then there's these parallel curvy lines arching around the three figures. And I thought, well, that makes me think of the barrier. And so, I wondered, is this a symbolic representation of the function of Ad Aten as one of the 1,000 plus mints all over the galaxy? Though I still don't understand the symbolism of the two robed and hooded women kneeling on the side of a robed man with an uncovered head and his arms upraised. So, let's see if you have thoughts, Regan.

[00:32:30] They just, why spend so much time on this image? Why is it important? You know, why not just have, you know, a Star Wars version of brick wall? Right, yeah. Paneling or something simple. What is this all about? You know, I think symbolically. And as I'm currently covering severance, I'm always staring at different things, being like, what does it mean? Okay. Well, yeah, I wasn't able to come up with anything, so as I say. I got nothing on that one. Yeah.

[00:33:00] Write in? Yes, please, write in. And I was feeling uncomfortable about Jod's multifaceted character at this point, because he shows sympathy and caring for the kids. I also know he saw them at his ticket off out of jail and off the planet and towards wealth. And a lot of things began to shift when Wim found that lightsaber and almost skewered himself when he tried to turn it on.

[00:33:30] Yeah, did you notice in the last episode he, like, checks to make sure that's the right direction? Yes, yes, he flips it back and forth. That was a nice one. That was a very nice callback. Yeah, it was really cute. And then he just kind of lost it, you know, when Brutus was threatening the airlock that last time. And it was just one time too many. And he was sick and tired of always coming so close, only to be disrupted by something. So it was really, really ambiguous.

[00:33:56] And then, this wonderful message on Discord by Davey Mack, who says that he's really seeing characteristics of Long John Silver. And, you know, you look at the name Jod Silvo. Mm-hmm. And the funny thing is, my dictation bot keeps spelling Jod as John. So... That's a good name. Even the dictation bot thinks John Silvo is John Silver, right? It's an excellent name.

[00:34:25] I quite agree with you. And so I did some poking around on... Well, first, Davey Mack says, he claims to have been the only man who Flint ever feared. Although treacherous and willing to change sides at any time to further his own interests, Silver, not Silvo now, but Silver, has compensating virtues. He is wise enough to save his money, in contrast to the spendthrift ways of most of the pirates. He is physically courageous, despite his disability.

[00:34:52] For instance, when Flint's cash is found to be empty, he coolly stands his ground against five murderous seamen, despite having only Jim, a boy in his teens, to back him. Okay, so... No, that was Wikipedia, excuse me. It wasn't Davey Mack's words. Um... And Long John Silver is the one-legged cook aboard the Hispaniola. Silver is also the secret leader of the pirates. He's deceitful, mean, and greedy, but also charismatic, and his physical and mental strength are impressive.

[00:35:21] And, yeah, that's a great... Right. ...description of what we see in John Silvo. He's kind towards Jim and appears generally fond of him. I don't think Silvo goes quite that far, but... Um... And he was based on the author Stevenson's friend and mentor, William Ernest Henley, so... There you go. But that really helped me put John in context. As I say, I'm not very familiar with Treasure Island. Yeah, me either.

[00:35:50] So that's why, you know, learning more about it, I said, okay, yeah, this starts to make more sense. And, you know, Brutus being the brutal one, um... I don't think he was supposed to evoke any particular pirate from the Treasure Island book, but... Who knows? Yeah. I mean, Brutus, I think it's just a Caesar reference, right? I think so, too. He seemed to be sort of... He's the mutineer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:16] But, I mean, that would make him a Barbossa figure, too, if you're looking at it through the lens of Jack Sparrow. So, yeah, they just... It's a nice melange that they're creating. Yeah. Yeah. You could almost say spicy, couldn't you? Look, I am halfway through Children of Dune, so I'm all about the melange right now. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, Marilyn, I might have to call you out here on your defense of Jod. Go ahead.

[00:36:43] I think you're treating Jod with more kid gloves than you did Agatha. I think Agatha... Interesting. ...is probably about as morally complex as Jod is. Hmm. I think she's got a lot of... She wants to be a kind person, but she is addicted to power kind of thing. It's just like Jod is addicted to wealth and, you know, finding the bright spots of the universe. And so he does cruel things, too.

[00:37:12] I have a very hard time remembering Agatha doing anything kind. For Billy, she did. Quite a bit. Because it was in her own self-interest. I don't think so. She did sacrifice herself and take a chance on if she'd become a ghost. Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps. I think in the end she sacrificed herself. Even more than Jod did, because Jod... Mm-hmm. ...Jod never did that. I mean, he... No. ...he kind of nudged them a little...

[00:37:40] Like, he didn't kill them outright, and he could have. Mm-hmm. And he didn't... Mm-hmm. He, you know, he didn't, you know, give them up to the other pirates right away. Mm-hmm. But he certainly didn't do anything heroic for them. I suppose I have a higher standard for Agatha, because... No, I have a higher standard for witches generally. Fair enough. I just wanted to bring up the comp. Nope.

[00:38:08] I just remembered on the Agatha Fidelity, you were like, nope, not a hero. And I, too, don't think she's a hero, but I think they're both very interesting, great characters. Well, I'll give you that, certainly. Yeah. And I don't think that Jod is a hero particularly either, so... No. No, certainly not. Certainly not. Jod is someone... You know, I called someone on some podcast the other day. I don't remember.

[00:38:37] I've been on, like, a lot of podcasts this week. Amoral. I called someone amoral, and I think Jod is almost amoral at times in the sense that his only goal is I just need to get myself to a safe place of wealth. Right. And anything that gets me there is going to do it. I'm not going to think if it's the right thing to do or not. Will it serve that end?

[00:39:00] I think he is amoral and is constantly bothered by something that a Jedi told him about himself. Mm-hmm. That will not let him completely go over to that amoral framework. Mm. Interesting. Interesting. Now, virtually all of his choices were self-serving, and there's no doubt about that. Right.

[00:39:25] But there was nothing that made him go into Wyn's cabin one time, I think this was in the first half of the series, and say, you know, you can have what you want, you just have to let go of all attachments. Right. As though he, you know, as though he's encouraging you to do this, and this will make your life better, and so on and so on. And, of course, Wyn responds, I can't do that, because that's not who he is.

[00:39:54] I just think that he's the kind of person, like, if you are currently part of his way to his own self-serving interests, then sure, he'll be nice to you, not necessarily kind. You know what I mean? Sure, but there was absolutely no need for him to say anything to Wyn about that. Other than just building rapport with these people who might tell their parents, hey, he helped us, go reward him.

[00:40:18] We'll see, because I think originally, I think his original plan was get these kids to the planet, get a good reward, move on with my life. All right, and then he discovered that this was an Imperial Mint, and a lot of things changed. Right, that and- You could be right, you could be right. And then he got a whole crew of pirates, so he could take over the whole planet. Sure, sure. He is absolutely an opportunist, no doubt about that, and that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Yeah.

[00:40:46] But it's definitely, if it is at all tinged with the milk of human kindness, it's a very tiny drop, which is getting sour pretty quickly. I know. Forget my forcing the metaphor. No, I like it. I like it. So we've got one more episode left. Do you want to head on to that? We sure do, yes. Let's do it. The Real Good Guys, which I saw that title, and I smiled. I thought that it was such a good tagline for the last episode.

[00:41:15] And it's a line that, what's his name, Wim used in an earlier episode when the X-Wings came, and he's like, no, those are the real good guys. I had forgotten that. I was thinking that the Real Good Guys, it sounds like the kids were giving the titles to these episodes. Yeah. Because it's definitely something that the kids would think. That's funny. It's not the way an adult would think, I don't think. Right. The Real Good Guys.

[00:41:39] So Jad orders everyone but Fern and her mother, Farah, confined to their quarters to be supervised by droids. He takes Fern and Farah to the supervisor, who turns out to be a droid himself. Themselves? Bum, bum, bum. Itself. Itself. There you go. Do droids like being called It? Probably not, but I'm not too concerned. Let's head to the droid bar from The Mandalorian and see what they like. The oil bar. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I should actually at least find out if they do mine or not.

[00:42:08] I suspect it's like so many other things some of them do and some of them don't. That's right. That's right. What a battle droid wants, C-3PO might not. Precisely. When the droid figures out he's not a Jedi, Jad reveals he was briefly trained by one and watched her be killed in Order 66. He then kills the supervisor, turning off the power, and clears the main pirate ship for entry.

[00:42:33] The pirates take over the planet, and all the kids, plus Wim's father, Wendell, rush to save Fern. Meanwhile, KB takes the ship into space to signal the Republic through Wim. She's successful, and the adults finally take down the barrier, allowing the New Republic to enter the atmosphere and chase off the pirates with X-wings. Jad is left behind, and the kids get away.

[00:42:58] Now, clarification point here, when you read KB takes the ship into space to signal the Republic through Wim, that's W-H-Y-M. That's not one of the main characters, W-I-M. Right. These are two different people. Right. So, for people who are just listening. Her name was Wim, though, right? I got that right? I'm the wrong person to ask, John. Oh, Kim. It was Kim. That's what I thought. It was Kim. I thought it was. All right. Don't write in. Don't write in. Wait until I make another mistake. It was Kim.

[00:43:28] I was writing this very quickly. Again, I recorded like three podcasts in the last five, four hours, so I wrote this very quickly. You must not apologize. There's absolutely no need in the world to do so. So, Kim successfully signals the New Republic, and they come, and honestly, have a very easy time chasing off the pirates, may I say. Well, she did plant that one line of, you know, we've got some expert pirate chasers in our fleet.

[00:43:57] So, that was to settle all of us who, you know, are looking at it with, not a jaundiced eye exactly, but, you know, expecting consistency or whatnot. I really loved how the adults had to get over their fear. Yes. I thought that that was really interesting. Like, the kids had already conquered that, but the adults hadn't. Well, they had never entered this world before, had they? Right. And they only had the vaguest of notions that something like this could exist.

[00:44:25] I mean, in a sense, the adults in this episode are where the kids were in episode one, two, three. Right. And even four. Yeah, they had never seen anything. No, no. There's a sense in which, I mean, there is this sort of amorphous threat, you know, of security droids and, you know, just follow the code and don't be eccentric or slip off in a different direction or whatever. Right.

[00:44:53] But other than that, there's very little in their lives that would represent this kind of existential threat, I think. Well, it's the same thing as, you know, I just covered silo last night with Alicia. You know, stay in the silo. Do not open the door. Don't say you want to go outside. Follow the pact rules exactly. Sure. And don't question it because the founders had a reason to put us here and we should not question that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:17] And that is one thing that I really feel there's a lot left dangling and I want a lot of answers about is the whole background of all this. And I wonder if they even worked it out themselves. I mean, I'm sure with your greater knowledge of the history overall, you can probably do some of that. But I don't know. I find it very confusing. So hopefully you can enlighten me. Nevertheless, it was a terrific ending in the wrap up.

[00:45:46] Very fast in keeping with the half hour length episodes. But most of the relevant points were covered and in a very exciting classic Star Wars way. I did find myself wondering at one point when Wim was doing a sort of a fake out on a comm saying, we need to save Princess Fern. Suddenly I was flashing to Luke saying, we've got a rescuer. Sure.

[00:46:11] I just wondered if that was an intentional Star Wars drop there. Yeah. That's very funny. I didn't think about that, but that makes total sense. And it was smart of him to just be like, I'm actually just playing. I'm a stupid little kid. Right. Yes. He did a good job on that. He seemed very harmless. He did a very good job of that. It's funny. I know a lot of people expected a droid supervisor. In retrospect, it makes perfect sense.

[00:46:38] But I was still imagining a humanoid of some kind. And destroying it was absolutely a shock to me. So, I don't know. Call me naive or just not up on all this stuff. But yeah. It was one in its whole succession of, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. Which was fun. You know, it was good. Once again, we get a very ET-like bike chase through forests that definitely remind me of the Pacific Northwest.

[00:47:07] And, you know, up and down and around corners and through culverts. And yeah. So, that was a lot of fun. And I love the hero moment for Wendell, Wim's father. When he comes to the rescue, say, hey, I'm a seven level tech knowledge here. I can do this. Let's hear it for all the techies in the world. Yeah. And also, I mean, I have to say, he came around real quick.

[00:47:35] Because when Wim can save them all by releasing the barrier, Wendell goes, just please don't. I'm like, oh. Yeah. All for him. And I don't think Jod would have actually killed him. I don't think so either. I think he was just a threat. But I was like, man, you are really putting this all on your son. And that sucks. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But then he comes around. Because he then comes to slam the lever later.

[00:48:03] And see, that whole thing calls back to what I mentioned earlier about this one aspect of Jod's character that keeps tripping him up. Because we learn that a Jedi saw him as a child and said he had potential. So, I think that part of him never entirely left him and never got entirely removed. Even though he says, you know, the only way he can do it is, you know, remove all attachments or whatever. Well, maybe that would have made him fail as a Jedi too.

[00:48:32] Because I just don't think he was seemingly able to do that altogether. And of course, the fact that that Jedi mentor was murdered in Order 66. Yeah. Obviously, also very traumatic. Yeah, I think there's this concept called alloparents. I don't know if you've heard of. It essentially means other parents. Okay. I think I have heard it, but I couldn't remember. There's a book called Mothers and Others, I think by Sarah Hurdy is.

[00:49:02] Right, right. I do recognize that title. I believe she's an anthropologist. Right. And her argument is, you know, one of the most important things to kids growing up is not just their parents, but those adults in their lives that are not their parents. Yes. Who are there for them, who believe in them. Those are often where you get a ton of influence from. Mm-hmm. And so, I think Jod saw this Jedi as an alloparent. Right.

[00:49:31] And that instilled in him this kind of value system that he can't quite shake. But he would have been better off if he had that alloparent through adulthood. Absolutely. And yet, it also, I think, disposes him to have particular sympathy for kids. Yeah. Which is not a trait that pirates usually have. Let's just be clear on that. Right, right. Well, watch One Piece and let's just, let's talk about that later. Well, I'm not talking Hondo, John.

[00:50:00] I said One Piece. I don't, I'm, so Hondo isn't in One Piece? Let's. One Piece is not Star Wars related at all. Oh, oh, okay. So. That's just a totally different thousand episode anime. Well, forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, but. We'll get you into One Piece eventually. Don't worry. One episode at a time. Okay. One show at a time, please. I'm juggling choosing from two or three right now, so. Yeah, right.

[00:50:26] And, of course, I knew that Snee would have to be back, but I just love that it's KB that figures out, okay, I gotta fly this ship. I don't have enough knowledge. Here's, you know, the head of the guy who knows it all, so I can easily, you know, reboot him and, you know, holding him up in her right hand while she's steering at the left hand. It was really, really funny. She did a good job. Almost like, almost like holding your cell phone to your ears. Yeah, right? Or like, I gotta get the GPS on. 300 yards down the road, turn right. Oh, man.

[00:50:56] Oh, man. I thought the realization of the destruction of the barrier was beautiful. Yeah. It was just so beautifully conceived and achieved, realized, you know, shown on the screen. We also learned, this is another way back call to, I think when the kids were first looking up at the barrier and somebody said, yeah, so what are those red lights? You know, those four red lights, what do they mean?

[00:51:25] Now we know what they were, because those were the guardian droids or whatever you want to call them. Yeah. That were shooting down all the ships that were not emissary ships. Yeah. Those were the zappers. The zappers. Yes. We'll be right back with more Skeleton Crew.

[00:52:01] Well, we've got two voicemails. Do you want to go to those and then share more thoughts? Sure. Let's hear from David first, because he sent it to me first. So he gets first dibs. Of course. He gets claimsies on the feedback. So just a couple of thoughts on Skeleton Crew. I really enjoyed the season. It was very entertaining. It had great characters.

[00:52:30] Pretty solid acting, given that it's hard for young actors to do the work that maybe somebody like Jude Law, who has a whole lifetime of experience, have. But they did a really good job overall. Yeah. And I enjoyed every single one of them. Great pacing of the season with the ups and downs of the episodes. Really good special effects.

[00:52:55] It seems like they really took care to make sure that it looked and felt like Star Wars. Speaking of Jude Law, how good was Jude Law on this? Pretty amazing. His micro expressions on his face during the little exposition background on, you know, how he got to be force trained were so good. So captivating.

[00:53:19] And I love the fact that we have a really big A-list star, Jude Law, starring in a Star Wars movie for kids. I thought he brought the right kind of gravity to the, not only to the role, but also to the production overall. And I also really appreciated that he's a gray force user, right? One of these Bokan Jedi or what have you, you know, partially trained. He's got some skills.

[00:53:47] And I just found it really fun to see the force being used by somebody who's, you know, a little bit morally compromised, but we can understand where he's coming from. That was a great exploration of that. I know we've been asking for more of that kind of stuff. And I felt like I got that. I'm satisfied with that particular part of the storytelling. And I also wanted to think a little bit about the storytelling itself.

[00:54:17] I'm very satisfied if this is all we ever got of Skeleton Crew. Cool. Done. Happy with it. It doesn't need a season to follow, to pick up right at the end of this thing. This has got a beginning, a middle, and an end. Boom. When we end a story with these little ambiguities and these little unknowns, it leaves a little bit of tension in the air.

[00:54:43] I'm sure Mark from Nevermind the Music could talk about how maybe a note or a chord doesn't necessarily completely resolve. And so you're left with a little bit of an emotional charge at the end of something. And I think quality storytelling can land on its two feet, leave the ambiguities so that you don't necessarily know what happened next, what's happening to Jude Law's character,

[00:55:09] what's happening with the kids, what's happening with the Republic. And I think leaving that ambiguity gives us that a little bit of static charge at the end of it. And that I'm satisfied with that. I think that's good storytelling. I think that's confident storytelling. And I appreciate that it feels like the showrunners got to make the show that they wanted. You could feel the joy.

[00:55:38] You could feel the wonder, the excitement, the whole journey of the young people just infused in every aspect of it. So solid, solid television show, great performances. And I really hope that the Star Wars, the studio can take the lessons learned from this, allow more shows like this to exist. We had some bitter disappointments this last year.

[00:56:07] And it's really upsetting when shows get cut like that or things go on this way. And it's, again, letting creators cook in the world. There is a huge space. So let's see some more of this kind of stuff. Of course, looking forward to Andor. So we'll talk to you then. Bye. David can't get through a Star Wars voicemail without saying the word Andor. Andor. Yeah.

[00:56:34] David, I think you're right, especially about this point of you can end things on an ambiguity and that's okay. Yeah, sure. It would have been fun to see a little montage at the end. Wim finally took assessment and figured out what he was going to do with his life. But at the same time, it's kind of fun to just be like, you know what? They went on an adventure. The good guys won. Let's go home. Well, I think they did kind of show us that, except his assessment was just standing and looking out on an expanse of X-wings.

[00:57:05] I think that's a pretty clear indication of what his future holds. No, you think he's going to be an X-wing fighter? I think so. And it reminded me a lot of one of the final scenes from The Last Jedi, when the little stable sweep looks out into the expanse of the sky and sees X-wings or some rebellion-style ship flying away.

[00:57:29] It was a very similar sort of a, you know, the next generation getting ready to take their part in the whole scheme of things. I totally agree about the skill of the actors who played the four kids. There was never a moment when I felt, okay, this is someone delivering a line. I mean, they were still less whiny than Mark Hamill in the first Star Wars, right? I mean...

[00:57:59] Well, they didn't have as much to be whiny about. They basically were living in a former paradise. Come on! Like, the way he says, I gotta go get these parts, or whatever he said. Yeah. Well, I was gonna go down to Natasha's station and pick up some parts. Yeah. That's always bugged me. It always felt so divorced from the later Luke, which I guess is part of the point as he grew, but... Well, yeah. Yeah. Again... I think it could have been a little toned down in that first movie, but... But we're not gonna go revise that from 1977.

[00:58:27] Instead, we're gonna talk about how great the kids were here. Yeah. No, they really... They were subtle. They had a range. And I really feel they inhabited their characters in a way that, as you were pointing out, a lot of actors older than them don't always have... Yeah. ...good skill at performing, so... Right. Yeah. The classic Star Wars scene at the end, X-Wings to the Rescue, was just so thrilling. And yes, I cried.

[00:58:57] Yeah. Well, that's nice. Yeah. Do you want to hear from Alicia before we go into other thoughts? Yes. All right. Hello, John and Marilyn. Alicia here. What a delightful season of television. I do really hope we get more, both a second season with a small time jump, and I really hope they show up in the promised Mando-Bobo-Ahsoka-era-7 crossover movie. But regardless, it was a satisfying ending, so I'm glad we got that.

[00:59:26] I see this as a show I will rewatch over and over. It just really perfectly achieved being exactly what it wanted to be. You know, a space adventure that's really for and about kids, but one that adults will get equal enjoyment out of. And for a kid's space adventure, I have to say, it went pretty hard. There were some real tense and scary moments, and they've introduced a fascinating new villain to the galaxy, whom I hope we see more of.

[00:59:53] In some way or another, I do need to find out what happens to At-Aten now that it's been exposed to the galaxy. Obviously, we know that their New Republic buddies are going to fall to the First Order in about 10 or so years. So assuming they even make it that far, then what then? It would be cool to see an adult, maybe, you know, whim fighter pilot, perhaps, show up in the next trilogy of movies that there are rumors about, which I think would be probably set about 30 or

[01:00:22] so years after this. Um, anyway, regardless, they've opened up new storytelling possibilities, and this was just fantastic. Um, from casting and acting and directing to lighting and cinematography, and of course, the storytelling. I would personally recommend this show to absolutely anyone and everyone of any age. And yeah, P.S. I'm not letting you go without a tiny lore nugget.

[01:00:47] So Star Wars Blue Sky is a buzz because Neil's Species has finally been named. Uh, he's been identified as a, um, and I'm, I'm choosing a pronunciation here because we've only seen it written down, but it's M-Y-Y-K-I-A-N. So I'm saying Mykian. And the reason why people are finding it funny is because there's another species from the High Republic novels, a more humanoid looking people with, with a differently colored skin

[01:01:16] and Medusa like head tendrils instead of hair. And that species is called the Mykians, M-I-K-K-I-A-N. But yeah, they, they're definitely quite similar. But when it comes to confusingly similar names, the Wheel of Time books say, hold my beer. Um, okay. Can't wait to hear you both gush over this show as I'm sure you will. And since we know Bob Iger obviously listens to this podcast, please give us more and renew the Acolyte. Okay. Bye.

[01:01:47] I'm with you on everything, Alicia, except I don't want a season two. I just don't want a season two. I want to leave it right where it is. Uh, but I'd like the idea of having an older whim with his joints aching in an X-Wing in 30 years. Uh, Marilyn, any thoughts? Yeah. I, um, I, I would like to see when as, as an X-Wing pilot, you know, in the future. And I'm thankful to Alicia for her knowledge of the timeline that is so excellent because

[01:02:17] that helps me situate the whole thing as to, you know, what's happening now, what's going to be happening in the future. So I guess he's not going to get to Luke's school for Jedi in time. No. No. But, um, you know, I think it was an example of how, you know, all of us could have a little bit of force capacity and in some circumstance or other, which he seemed to have at some point. Well, we don't want him to get to Luke's school for Jedi anyway, because that would mean he would die at the hands of Kylo Ren. Seriously.

[01:02:46] No, I'm, I quite agree. I quite agree. But I do find myself wondering a number of things, like just how much of Luke and Leia's story did they know? Probably not any. Yeah. Because it was recent. Right. Exactly. It was recent. They didn't even know that the Jedi had died because they were. Right. So I think when they say old Republic refinery, they mean pre Imperial Republic, just, just the right before the empire. Yeah.

[01:03:14] I don't think that they mean old, old Republic, which was, you know, old Republic is one of the, it's in legends, but it might be kind of eventually. Right. Right. Tens of thousands of years in the past, just really, really old Republic. I don't think they meant that. And so how do they know about Jedis at all? And the adventures of Jedis. The Jedi were around in the, in the Republic. So they probably knew, oh, these are the peacemakers of the galaxy. And it sounds like Jedi were sometimes the emissaries. Yeah.

[01:03:42] So at what point was that at and cut off and surrounded by the barrier and put in charge of a droid? No, I mean, I mean, even with the barrier up, sometimes they would have a Jedi come down to be the emissary. So I think that they had emissaries until the empire took over essentially. Okay. Okay. All right. That's my theory. At least I don't, I don't have any evidence for it other than the fact that, um, I don't know. I don't really know. I just feel like that.

[01:04:10] And so after order 66 and then after the emperor was destroyed, I guess there just was not sufficient knowledge of the existence of that amongst the folks who were pulling together the new Republic to say, Hey, we should tell them what's been going on in the galaxy. How long years. And oh, by the way, we could sure use some of those, you know, batteries because being able

[01:04:37] to have access to that much wealth could have significantly aided them in their establishing, you know, a new order. Well, now they probably will be able to do that with the new Republic just in time for it to be destroyed. Right. Exactly. So I don't know. It seems rather bleak to me. Um, well, they didn't have to do that with the sequel trilogy, but they did. So we're living with it. Well, yeah, I guess. Um, oh, and I think Alicia also does some speculative explanations of all this in the discord chat.

[01:05:07] So, okay. If there are those listening who have not tried discord do. Okay. I see you have some more thoughts on this episode. You want to just run through those? I've pretty much gone through all of them. I guess the only other thing I haven't mentioned already was, um, you know, they clearly set up the tension enough so that it was potentially believable to me that one or more of the kids would be killed. Oh yeah. Yeah. I didn't think so. Well, I don't know.

[01:05:35] They had me guessing both on KB and on Neil, um, cause there was nothing to say they had any plot armor, but I'm really glad they didn't go there because it would not have been in keeping with what I consider to be the overall tone of the series. I mean, there was, there were many, many scary threats, but they never actually came to fruition. So that they followed that pattern with everybody surviving. Yeah. So that was good.

[01:06:02] I mean, for me, this was, this was the best executed star Wars series after and, or I, I think this was better than any of the Mandover stuff, uh, a little bit better than the acolyte. I, I think that this was the best executed and better than Obi-Wan for sure. Uh, but best executed star Wars show after and, or, and is it an interesting because the,

[01:06:27] the whole feel of those two shows is so radically different because they're both authentically what they want to be. And I, and I think there are moments in the Mandalorian and the acolyte where they do that. Yeah. Uh, the Boba Fett does not do that, but no, we don't have to, we don't have to do Boba Fett. Let's, let's let it, but, but, and even Ahsoka does, does it well. At certain points. But I think the show and, and, or from beginning to end, know what it wants to be.

[01:06:56] It knows what it wants to be. And it follows that train, right? You know, did I know itself be true kind of thing. Yeah. And I think I, I will push back a little and say, I think acolyte did that too. I think it mostly did that. There were a few clumsy moments, but I think it mostly did that. Yes. Yeah. The clumsy moments had nothing to do with the lack of vision on their part. Yeah. It was, you know, other things, plotline or whatever. Right. But I just mean like, I didn't feel any of those hiccups at all in skeleton crew or an and, or no, no, no.

[01:07:26] And I think in every other star Wars show, this is not, I'm not trying to knock on the acolyte in every star Wars show. I just think that there have been hiccups. Yes. Yes. And I mean, this, the skeleton crew was definitely supported by the fact that they were drawing on some very familiar tropes. Yeah. And, but, but doing it in a fresh way, you know, like the sequel trilogy starts off with a rehashing of a new hope, but they do it in such a copycat way that it's not as satisfying.

[01:07:53] Well, it was satisfying to me, but then I'm one who saw it, you know, in 1977 in the theaters for the first time. Okay. So it was, they were definitely doing the member berries thing for us oldsters. So I loved it. Yeah. But anyway, renew the acolyte, give us more good star Wars. Renew the acolyte. And, uh, and we'll all have a good time, Iger. Yes. We'll all have a good time. Do you want to just give, I left these in from last episode just for fun.

[01:08:22] What are you, what's your favorite character? Well, interestingly, it's between KB and John for me. Oh. Yeah. Which is another reason why I really don't put him in the same category as Agatha. Um, I think you're treating him with kid gloves if you're doing that. Not kid gloves, but you could probably argue more compassion. Um, I don't know that Agatha had, um, the kind of childhood that he had. Yeah. She certainly went through a lot of suffering.

[01:08:51] Agatha certainly had suffering and hardship, but so do all of us. Hmm. And I don't think she experienced those. Well, I guess she, I guess she did experience that as a child. Didn't she? Cause she was told again, I guess we better not get into it too much because of spoiler. Anyway, uh, maybe I'm being too harsh on Agatha, but. I'm, I'm here to be an Agatha defender. Okay. Go right ahead.

[01:09:17] I think it's also, I'm, I'm actually, um, drawn to job because it's Jude law. Yeah, that's true. And because as people have said, he is such a amazing actor. He's charming. Always charming. He's absolutely charming. Have you watched the Grand Budapest Hotel? I think I have, but only once in a very long time ago. It's very good. I think he can get something else. And he, he narrates most of it. Is Judi Dench in it? I don't think so. Okay.

[01:09:46] Then it's a different hotel thing. Like the best hotel in Budapest or, but it wasn't Budapest. It was India. So I'm getting them confused. Stop naming movies about hotels. It's very confusing for some of us. It was very good though. It's a very good movie. Uh, Ray Fiennes, Bill Murray. Oh yeah. Suintin, Ed Norman. Good names. Okay. I'll have to look it up sometime. Yep. Tony Rivalori. Willem Dafoe. Owen Wilson. Jason Schwartzman. They're all in here. Okay. They're all in here.

[01:10:16] Would recommend. But I definitely like KB because she does not have any pretensions. She knows her abilities and she's not shy of using them. And we see her grow into, um, putting herself first in her relationship with Fern. Mm-hmm. Instead of always being subordinate and one step behind.

[01:10:45] And I think that came about because it was tinged with a fear of this is my only friend. And if I offend her, then I'm, you know, totally alone. Because her life was so much different from everybody else's. And interesting that they don't even try to go into, you know, why was she augmented? Right. But we do hear in the very beginning, uh, when the parents are first being told that the kids have escaped, you know, the, the mothers are saying, well, she has this medical condition.

[01:11:13] And so, so there's a sense in which she may have been coddled too. Yeah. And so striking out on her own was, was kind of a pushback against that. Right. Her parents, her parents will say, oh, it's time to get maintained rather than her having to be like, I need maintenance. Right. Right. Right. So who's your favorite character? I think KB is, is the coolest one of the kids. Oh, interesting. KB with, um, well, I don't know. Cause Neil's, Neil's, uh, I like Neil too.

[01:11:43] Um, I also just love SM33, you know, he, he, I, I love the way that he made a moral judgment and was just like, nah, I, I technically the captain, but I don't care. I don't care. I, I, I love it when a droid gets, you know, breaks his programming and then just does what it feels is the right thing. Sure. It really shows that droids are people. Yeah. You know what? I'm not going to fight over KB versus Neil. I'm just going to go with SM33. Okay. There you go.

[01:12:14] Yeah. I think Neil, I love Neil in the earlier episodes. Um, I don't think his arc was quite as significant as KB. He did figure out his traps and he did stick up for himself. No, no, he did have all that stuff, but I think he, he kind of had that from the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you're saying. Well, no, he, well, yeah. You're right. Most of it happened in the first half with the courage arc, but that's all right. Favorite episode.

[01:12:44] Oh, I picked two. I know that's cheating, but anyway, episode six, when the four kids finally become a team, that's the one on the, you know, on the trash heap. Um, when we finally see them confronting some of their personal things, but also confronting their colleagues and saying, look here. And you see them acting as a team.

[01:13:08] And they recognize that they each have strengths and they want each of them to use those strengths for them all to survive. Right. So I liked that an awful lot. And then episode eight, because it's a classic star word, judge of the seat, happy ending. So, you know, what's not to like. Yeah. That was, that was a great one. I think for me, it has to be five or eight. Cause I, I loved the Indiana Jones, but I loved in the Indiana Jones thing. I loved seeing the temple of doom in there.

[01:13:37] And I love the Cthulhu thing. I mean, a lot of good stuff in that episode, but also like you said, it's just really fun to watch the end where they're just going through this crazy cliffhanger ending and, you know, it's all going to work out, but how is it going to work out? Exactly. Exactly. A lot, you know, edge of the seat, but still grinning all the way because it's just, it's wonderful. Cause the good guys are going to win in the end. Yes. That's star Wars. You know, that the good guys are going to win in the end. Yeah. Interesting.

[01:14:07] Interesting to apply to and or two in that context, but in effect, the same thing happens. Yeah. Eventually. There's just not as much joy in it. Right. What are you, what are your lingering questions, Marilyn? Well, it comes to this whole question of, do we really want a season two or not? And I certainly hear what you're saying and I can agree with you that this is a perfect, encapsulated event in and of itself, but they do leave it ambiguous as to whether or not Jod survives. Mm-hmm.

[01:14:37] So maybe they're saving him for, to appear in Andor or something. I don't know. That's interesting. I mean, they've had characters die very visibly or, or clearly in books and still come back. So I'm, I will not be shocked if he comes back. He's just such a great character. And they've, they've built him up so well that it'd be, and if, you know, Jude Law, it'd be lovely to have him continue on in the universe.

[01:15:05] If Darth Maul can come back, so can he. Well, there you go. Uh, we already talked about how the, uh, the ship wound up buried in the ground in the first place. Um, some of these we've addressed already. Well, actually, how will Ad Aten continue as a viable planet with the barrier down to the supervisor destroyed? Mm.

[01:15:29] And being, you know, basically at the mercy of anyone in the universe, I mean, in the galaxy. Well, who knows if maybe the supervisor can be rebuilt? Maybe you don't need a droid supervisor in the end. Who knows? No, no. But for, for a time, it's going to be really chaotic. And I'm hoping that the New Republic is going to invest in, you know, putting some people in place to help them. Yeah. They only need people though. They don't need money. They have all the money in the world. Well, exactly. Exactly.

[01:15:57] Which is why the barrier was such a crucial part of, of, part of their safety and maintaining themselves and not, um, having to deal with all the, uh, so, you know, at the very least put a guard around Ad Aten until something better can be contrived. Right. Um, so yeah, those are the things that, um, came to my mind.

[01:16:21] Um, but you helped solve some of the other things about the ship and, um, where it fits at the timeline. Yeah. So that's basically it. All right. What about you? I mean, I, I'd love to see, love to see Jot again. I, I think at least a suggestion of an older whim flag and X-wing is cool. Yeah. I, I think that we could see KB before sensitive because there was a suggestion of that earlier in the season.

[01:16:51] Yeah, there was kind of. And other than that, I mean, I could see any of the kids going on and doing something. So it'd be lovely to have them exploring the whole force sensitive, but not a Jedi track. I've wanted that for quite some time now. Well, we, we did that in Ahsoka and that happened and I, and I, uh, had feelings about it. We can do more. We can do better. I know. I know.

[01:17:16] I started wanting it ever since, um, uh, the, the force rises. Oh, I thought you were talking about Rogue One with, um, Chirrut. Yeah. Yes. That's right. I am one with the force and the forces with me. Yes. Yes. He's able to see, but he can't really like use force push and whatnot. You're right. That was really the first time the whole concept had been introduced. And I, I've always wanted to see more about that.

[01:17:44] Plus, of course, I liked the more spiritual component of it all. Um, which his, his friend, um, didn't really subscribe to, but you know, he had his own ways of being in the right place at the right time. So that was good. What about you? Anything else? I don't think so. I, I'm, I'm going to say, I still would like confirmation on if it was old Republic or old, new old Republic, but, uh, that's all right.

[01:18:11] Was the empire getting out without sharing what was going on? I don't know. What about middle-aged Republic? I, I have no opinion on that. Neither old nor new. Neither old nor new. Well, we've got one piece of feedback here from Ken W. Yay. Just finished. Skeleton crew brought me back to my youth. Best star Wars since the acolyte. Agreed. Was there any star Wars since the acolyte? I guess there was animated stuff. Yeah. I'm not coming up with anything.

[01:18:40] I don't think there was even, I don't think so. Am I going crazy? I don't know. Anyway. Uh, I love star Wars. Ken says they just need to think of the fans and not the Muppets online. I agree. Neil is my hero. Keep up the great work. One and all in lore hounds towers. We have a tower now. I wish I had a tower. Maybe that's a reference to silo. I don't know. No, I, I thought it was like an Avengers tower kind of thing. Huh? Or it could even be a wheel of time.

[01:19:10] You know, I'd, I'd rather live in Avengers tower than in, uh, the silo towers because those are a very dystopian. Yeah. No, I don't want the silo towers. What about the white tower? The white tower. I think you got to read some more. Um, they're not great for with men. Are they in the way? They don't, they do not care for men. No, no. So I can see why you would hesitate to, yeah, I could become a warder. They'd like, yes, there you go. I like that. All right. I like that. Well, Marilyn,

[01:19:40] let's talk quickly about what's going on elsewhere on the lore hounds network. Yes. As everyone knows, we're doing so much severance. It's going to be crazy. We already put out our episode one coverage for season two with Steven Anthony from properly. Howard. Don't forget. That's not going to be on the main feed after this episode, starting with episode two, it will only be on the severance feed. And you can find that in the link tree and the show notes. I put it on top so that it's easy to find. Is it not going to be on the, um, the Patreon?

[01:20:10] It will be on Patreon and super cast. So if you're subscribed to the ad free, that's don't worry about it. You'll be fine. Thank you for clarifying, Marilyn. Yes. Uh, we also have a season pass for it. So there will be, it's five bucks. We're not doing a show guide, just, just a little bit of bonus content, a couple episodes and the ad free stuff. Uh, because we just know people, people are a little skittish about recurring subscriptions sometimes, which I totally get. But we wanted to offer that again. I know it was very popular when we did it for rings of power and house of the dragon. Yes. Anyway,

[01:20:41] other things, Nosferatu. We've already recorded it. That's coming out soon. Right. Gothic horror, lovely stuff. Big, big, big themes. And we had a great time talking about it. I think we did over two hours talking about it. Me, Alicia and John. No surprises there. I know, right? I know, right? Uh, and also Alicia and John recorded a, what if season three podcast. And I know they've got more MCU stuff coming. So check that out here on the main feed, or if you're on the star Wars feed,

[01:21:10] go to the main feed to check it out. Um, we also have, um, I'm going to have a similar lean story later this month. If you're talking with Aaron from Lord of the Rings on, uh, the fall of engulfing. So sad time, sad time to be reading the, the, uh, similar, but Alicia's also got her Agatha game show coming out. Oh, I forgot that that was still in the works. It's coming. It's coming.

[01:21:38] And creature commandos season one. They're also going to be, uh, talking about that coming up. Plenty of stuff coming, plenty of stuff coming. David's going to be doing a live show. I'm not exactly sure the details of that off the top of my head. Star Trek with the captain's pod. Oh, right. Stay tuned on that. I believe we have details in our discord and I'm sure David will be talking about it in the severance pod. So check that out now on the affiliates. You can always hear Marilyn on rings and rituals.

[01:22:07] They did season one rings of power and they will be back for season two at some point when Sarah's schedule gets a little lighter. Yes, we were still figuring out exactly when we want to do that. It could be this year. It could be next year as a lead up to season three. We're not clear exactly on when season three will start, but it seems pretty likely that that will be towards the end of August. Cause that's the pattern that they following at this point. It's not a 2025 show. That's for sure.

[01:22:36] Oh gosh. No. So there's plenty of time. If you have preferences, listeners write in. And properly Howard is still doing there. A few good films. They're wrapping that up. All movies related to a few good men and the people who worked on it. They'll be closing it out with a few good men to just close that out. So check that out. Radioactive ramblings doing the red rising book series, which is a pretty good book series that I I've enjoyed.

[01:23:04] And the studio Ghibli films that everyone makes fun of me. Even they're like Ghibli. And I'm like, you know what? I don't care what they say. I think it's Ghibli and I'm going to keep saying it. Anyway, lastly, we'll shift dust. Alicia's doing the silo stuff. The season just wrapped up. I was on the final breakdown episode for episode 10. And then Alicia and Luke will be back next week to do a season wrap. And there will be earth sea in the future.

[01:23:33] There will be earth sea in the future. Also, I wanted to say, Oh, I can't remember what Alicia told me is coming out. There's something coming out on the star Wars feed, but the star Wars cannon timeline feed. So check that out since you're in star Wars already and you want to be in star Wars world. Everything that I've talked about is in the show notes in the link tree. So click on that. If you want to get to any of these podcasts. All right. Earth sea is coming. We're going to do it. We are. We are tonight. We just have to say thank you to people.

[01:24:03] So quickly we've got some Martian, Michael G, Michelle E, Brian P, SC, Peter O H, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Doove 71, Brian 80 63, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C, Eric F, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa, Antra B, Kwong Yu, Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Aaron T, Sub Zero, Aaron K, Dally V, Mothership 61, Narls, Kathy W, Listu,

[01:24:33] Jeffrey B, Elisa Yu, Neil F, Ben B, Scott F, Steven N, and Adrian. Thanks everyone. It's been a blast. Marilyn, may the force be with you. And with you, John, the force will be with us always. And yes, it's been delightful. So thanks everybody. I hope you enjoy it. Good night. Good night. The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds.

[01:24:58] You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the lorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and add free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. And connect with us on Twitter at the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.

[01:25:29] Hey everyone, David here. The wait is over. Severance is back. The Lorehounds are teaming up with Properly Howard to bring you comprehensive coverage of season two. Join John, Anthony, Steve, and myself each week as we dive into this amazing show. Here's what you need to know. We've set up a dedicated feed for our severance coverage. To join us, just search for Severance Lorehounds in your podcast player,

[01:25:58] or click the feed link in our link tree. You'll find that in the show notes below. If you're already a Patreon or Supercast subscriber, don't worry. You'll get the ad-free versions automatically in your regular feed. Plus, exclusive access to our upcoming bonus episodes that we'll be announcing soon. The early reviews are incredible. Apple's marketing push is huge, and we cannot wait to explore this season with you.

[01:26:26] And unlike the music dance experience, you don't need Mr. Milchick's permission to join us. Don't forget, you can find the feed link in our link tree in the show notes, or just search Severance Lorehounds wherever you get your podcasts. Join us for what's shaping up to be an incredible season.