Star Wars - The Bad Batch Season 3 & Tales of the Empire

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[00:00:52] Welcome to the Lorehounds Spring 2024 Star Wars Catch-Up Podcast. I'm Jon.

[00:01:22] And I'm Alicia. And today we're going to put the bad and batch and the tales into the empire

[00:01:27] as we get into the two latest Star Wars animated series.

[00:01:31] With the help of our guest, everyone's favorite Tolkien scholar,

[00:01:34] Marilyn R. Pukila, we'll start off with our spoiler free hot takes. And then after the

[00:01:39] break, it's time to unleash the spoilers for a deeper dive into these two shows.

[00:01:44] We want to hear your Star Wars thoughts and feedback about these shows or anything else.

[00:01:48] You can email us at StarWars at the Lorehounds.com or head over to the contact page on the website

[00:01:54] and use the forum to record us a voicemail that we can drop right into the podcast.

[00:01:58] We'd also love for you to join us on Discord for chats about Star Wars and all

[00:02:03] the other things we're covering. Link in the show notes.

[00:02:06] Support the community on Supercast or Patreon, join the conversation on Discord,

[00:02:10] and take a listen to our affiliate podcast, links for everything in the show notes.

[00:02:16] We like those show note links.

[00:02:18] We do. We're working on, we were just discussing, we need a link tree.

[00:02:22] We need a regular link that sends you to like a hub because we now have I think six

[00:02:29] other affiliate feeds. And it's just becoming unruly. So we want to make it more readable.

[00:02:35] No, I was saying now I'm using the Lorehounds website as a link tree for the moment.

[00:02:39] Because at least at the top there you have, you can click on all the different podcasts

[00:02:43] and just get their feeds.

[00:02:43] I didn't even think about that, but that's a good idea.

[00:02:46] I am relying upon the grace of John and or David depending upon who's

[00:02:51] people in my little show notes every week.

[00:02:56] Fair enough. So Alicia, this is your first podcast as a full-fledged Lorehound,

[00:03:01] as a knighted, a knight of the seven kingdoms.

[00:03:06] Do I look different?

[00:03:08] I, you have this sort of halo around your head.

[00:03:11] I see a glow. I see a general glow.

[00:03:13] Yes.

[00:03:15] Yeah.

[00:03:15] I'm sorry to monitor your shoulder.

[00:03:18] The armor really gives the podcast a different vibe.

[00:03:21] But well, I mean, I know you have to edit it out in post and I'm sorry for that,

[00:03:26] but it just felt necessary.

[00:03:28] It's true. It's true.

[00:03:29] All right. So why don't you start us off on your hot takes as your honorary new Lorehound?

[00:03:36] Um, yeah. So we have two things we're covering today, starting off with the bad batch.

[00:03:42] We got that 15 episode season, which is like a nice meaty episode length for these days.

[00:03:47] But I have to admit I was more into the first half personally.

[00:03:52] It got a little slow for me in the back half and that might also have to do with the fact

[00:03:56] that I was watching it back to back with the X-Men 97 episode

[00:04:01] because they were released on the same day.

[00:04:02] And the X-Men 97 episodes were like, are going at breakneck speed.

[00:04:06] So by contrast, it's yeah, it's uh, you know, I really was so excited about

[00:04:14] the locations and stuff for this season.

[00:04:17] Um, but then it felt like we were repeating storylines a little bit,

[00:04:20] but we got some good character arcs.

[00:04:23] Um, especially cross hairs and yeah, I'm,

[00:04:29] I'm, I'm it ended in a satisfying place.

[00:04:33] So I hope we'll get to see these characters again.

[00:04:35] Um, even if, you know, I kind of knew where it was going to end because

[00:04:40] of knowing Star Wars lore.

[00:04:43] Right.

[00:04:44] Um, I really loved Tales of the Empire.

[00:04:47] Maybe even more than Tales of the Jedi.

[00:04:49] Um, maybe I have a villain thing.

[00:04:51] I don't know, but it's, it was definitely, it was two characters,

[00:04:56] Morgan, Elizabeth and Barasoffe specifically that I wanted to know more about.

[00:05:00] So, and it was just like dropped in our laps as a sudden surprise.

[00:05:03] So it was delightful in that way.

[00:05:05] Um, and we got like two journeys into the darkness and how their paths forked.

[00:05:11] And the Morgan story is like, I know I really want to go back and watch

[00:05:15] Ahsoka because that's so enhanced by what we learned from about Morgan.

[00:05:20] My only complaint is that the episodes are too short.

[00:05:22] I need more, more, more, more, more, more.

[00:05:23] Mm-hmm.

[00:05:24] What, what about you, Marilyn?

[00:05:26] What did you think overall?

[00:05:28] I enjoyed it.

[00:05:29] Although I do feel that this third season was a lot darker emotionally and

[00:05:33] unfortunately often visually.

[00:05:35] I mean, I learned about how to increase my iPad to its full brightness

[00:05:38] and I still couldn't see a lot of what was going on.

[00:05:41] And you weren't even with us for Game of Thrones season eight.

[00:05:45] No, no, no, no.

[00:05:48] Um, and there was one episode I almost found triggering.

[00:05:51] Um, the, the isolation of the children and well, no more.

[00:05:56] This is not spoiler territory yet.

[00:05:59] Um, and it's kind of funny when I was getting ready to do this outside of

[00:06:03] Omega's arc, I kind of had a hard time remembering a lot of details from

[00:06:08] the first half.

[00:06:09] So we're kind of flipped in that way, I guess, Alicia.

[00:06:13] It's interesting.

[00:06:14] And in terms of the length, it did seem to me that on more one occasion they took

[00:06:19] what I would consider to be an entire episode and they split it into two,

[00:06:23] which were unsatisfactorily short.

[00:06:26] And then the last episode was almost twice as long as some of the others.

[00:06:29] So I, I really don't understand what they were thinking about when they were

[00:06:35] splitting it up into episodes.

[00:06:36] And so, uh, I think as you also observed the pacing was odd visually,

[00:06:45] except for the darkness that visually it was beautiful.

[00:06:49] And the music, I almost never noticed the music in these kinds of things,

[00:06:53] but I noticed the music this time and particularly the final episode.

[00:06:57] I believe I characterized it as Wagnerian in discord somewhere.

[00:07:01] Um, I thought they did a really good job with that.

[00:07:04] And I kind of see this as having woven a lot of threads and pulled in a lot of threads

[00:07:10] and doing their best to kind of smooth the link between some of the things

[00:07:16] that the second, that the sequel film trilogy did with, you know,

[00:07:20] the things that came before it.

[00:07:22] So one could ask, did they do that successfully or not?

[00:07:25] And of course the answer will vary depending upon who you are and what your feelings

[00:07:30] are about all these different versions of stories.

[00:07:33] As far as Tales of the Empire was concerned, um,

[00:07:37] it was an interesting choice to take two characters and contrast them that way.

[00:07:41] But I'm not sure but what it did a disservice to either one or the other of them,

[00:07:45] depending upon your preferences for the character, um,

[00:07:49] it kind of highlighted my initial feelings about, um, one of them.

[00:07:56] So I don't know.

[00:07:58] It's an interesting choice at any rate.

[00:08:00] Did you watch Tales of a Jedi?

[00:08:02] I did.

[00:08:03] I did.

[00:08:03] Yes.

[00:08:04] Because they did the same thing.

[00:08:05] It was this contrast between two Jedi.

[00:08:08] Yeah.

[00:08:08] But for some reason, it didn't do anything to the characters one way or the other.

[00:08:14] I mean in terms of, you know, making them seem better or worse.

[00:08:17] Parallel.

[00:08:19] Well they're parallel in one respect but in another respect, as you said, they fork.

[00:08:23] I mean their paths entirely, which is a nice contrast in itself.

[00:08:28] But um, well I'll save it for when I can do a-

[00:08:33] Yeah.

[00:08:34] I mean, I mean so do the characters in Tales of the Jedi, right?

[00:08:37] They both leave the Jedi order but one goes in one direction and one goes in the other.

[00:08:41] Sure.

[00:08:43] Yes, but they both seemed complete personages, complete characters in themselves.

[00:08:48] Sure, sure.

[00:08:49] Well you didn't-

[00:08:50] Because they had more change over the time of the episodes that we saw.

[00:08:55] Did you see the Barriss episodes of The Clone Wars?

[00:08:59] I certainly saw the ones where she appeared in the Ahsoka arc.

[00:09:04] Yeah, so there's like two arcs where she mostly shows up.

[00:09:08] One is earlier on where she and Ahsoka sort of escape this bad situation where their masters can't get to them.

[00:09:15] And then the other one is, you know, the framing that we talked about in the Ahsoka prep podcast.

[00:09:21] Right.

[00:09:22] But I mean Barriss was always an unsatisfying end to me because you're like what happened to her after Order 66?

[00:09:30] Yes.

[00:09:31] And I'm really glad that we finally got something on that.

[00:09:33] Yes, yes.

[00:09:34] I am too.

[00:09:35] I am too.

[00:09:39] And it raised a question in my mind which is how do you distinguish between member berries or fan service or filling in the gaps?

[00:09:48] There's a lot of talk on the Discord about, oh that was just all fan service,

[00:09:51] I was bored, or why do they keep using the same sounds over and over?

[00:09:56] I mean why not?

[00:09:58] That's another podcast I suppose, but it seems to me that if you look at it from a technology standpoint,

[00:10:05] why are they going to make different sounds until they have entirely different systems?

[00:10:11] Or a new source of fuel or whatever it happens to be.

[00:10:15] Goodness knows they come up with all kinds of shapes of ships.

[00:10:19] Well Bob, I was just talking about lightsabers with him on the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast.

[00:10:25] So he's blind so he didn't realize at first that the dark saber when he first saw it in Clone Wars

[00:10:31] because Clone Wars didn't have good audio description at the time,

[00:10:34] he knew it was something different because it made a different sound.

[00:10:37] Sure.

[00:10:37] So in that case they do it, yeah.

[00:10:39] Sure, but it's a different device isn't it?

[00:10:42] You would expect something that looks so wildly different from your traditional lightsaber to sound different because it is.

[00:10:47] Exactly.

[00:10:48] But the lightsaber is the lightsaber is the lightsaber until they invent a different type.

[00:10:55] And you know pew pews are pew pews right?

[00:10:59] They're not supposed to have any sound of course in space but that's another thing altogether.

[00:11:03] So John what do you have to tell us?

[00:11:06] Well I already kind of gave my thoughts on Tales of the Jedi with our banter but

[00:11:11] yeah sorry, Tales of the Empire rather.

[00:11:13] I really enjoyed Tales of the Empire definitely liked the Barriss episodes more

[00:11:17] than the Morgan episodes which I know Alicia you're going to push back on.

[00:11:20] Oh I'm with you John.

[00:11:21] Slightly in the other direction.

[00:11:21] I am with you on that.

[00:11:25] But I thought it did well.

[00:11:27] My one complaint about it is it felt like they held something back

[00:11:31] to do in a follow-up and I just wish they would have done a complete character arc especially

[00:11:36] for Barriss.

[00:11:37] I didn't feel like that was complete.

[00:11:39] Interesting.

[00:11:41] And the bad batch I mean some of the best storytelling in Star Wars recently

[00:11:47] and I know a lot of people are not super into the animated series they're like oh watch

[00:11:51] the live action stuff but I don't want the animated stuff.

[00:11:54] You're missing out you're really missing out.

[00:11:55] Definitely.

[00:11:56] This was better than anything in the Mandalorian in Ahsoka.

[00:12:00] Hopefully the Acolyte is great.

[00:12:02] Oh this is much better than Ahsoka don't get me started on that.

[00:12:06] But it was really satisfying you know.

[00:12:08] You don't like a leap of faith?

[00:12:10] Yeah.

[00:12:14] Or trust or whatever.

[00:12:16] Oh boy don't even get me started but I thought it was it was much better and

[00:12:20] really we are right in the midst of the sequel trilogy rehabilitation effort

[00:12:28] and I thought it did a pretty good job of doing that.

[00:12:32] Yeah.

[00:12:33] Which is shocking because for me I mean the sequel era I have a lot of mixed feelings on

[00:12:40] because I loved the second movie in the sequel era but the third movie I walked out of the

[00:12:45] theater and I was like what the hell was that and I think like a lot of people were

[00:12:49] just like what why why any of that.

[00:12:54] But they're actually making the somehow Palpatine returned a little better.

[00:13:01] You can only make it worse but.

[00:13:04] I mean I think that their biggest mistake not to relitigate the sequels here but

[00:13:08] I think their biggest mistake was they announced Palpatine's return in wasn't

[00:13:13] it like a fortnight event which.

[00:13:15] Did they?

[00:13:16] Yeah so great for those people yeah before

[00:13:20] the last film released so.

[00:13:22] I thought it was just his laugh in a trailer.

[00:13:25] Um I so I don't play fortnight so I'm not completely sure what happened but uh yeah

[00:13:31] that's was apparently that's what I remember at the time that's what had people so

[00:13:35] upset and I was also like uh but I am also a Ray Lo I'm coming out as a Ray Lo.

[00:13:42] Well you know the um this is part of the challenge of having a universe which is

[00:13:48] depicted to us in so many different formats.

[00:13:51] And and from different creators right.

[00:13:53] And from different creators even more so and so those who feel that it is not

[00:14:00] appropriate to have Star Wars canon in a video game would presumably have been

[00:14:06] particularly annoyed if they had even known about that particular introduction

[00:14:10] because presumably if they don't like that then they just don't even go into that

[00:14:14] that universe but my introduction.

[00:14:16] We now have two canon video games.

[00:14:20] My introduction to the concept was was you know the the trailer going off into

[00:14:24] the infinity thing and I'm like oh really paucity of imagination folks.

[00:14:30] I remember feeling exactly the same way in what I consider to be the third movie

[00:14:36] i.e. Return of the Jedi sitting in the theater in Wales actually with an

[00:14:41] American friend there and we the trailer came up and we saw you know a second to

[00:14:47] Death Star and we both roamed in almost exactly the same way.

[00:14:52] Yeah it's fair.

[00:14:53] Really I was expecting more of Lucas's incredible imagination with you know

[00:14:58] planet worms leaping out at spaceships and you know all these totally in the

[00:15:03] last second you know but we got on reflection it makes sense it makes sense.

[00:15:08] Why wouldn't they make another one you know that got all the plans still.

[00:15:12] Well my biggest problem with episode nine is that I think they should have when

[00:15:17] Carrie Fisher passed away they should have just let her pass away in the second film and

[00:15:24] just trying to force her into that final film with like these awkward you know clips that

[00:15:29] they happen to have of her for me that was and also of course the side lining of Finn

[00:15:33] and Rose was also a major problem. Those are my biggest problems.

[00:15:36] Well we're litigating to see.

[00:15:39] We're going to candy rolls.

[00:15:39] Yeah we're sorry going too deep but anyway yeah so Bad Batch if people really want to

[00:15:45] know about the Somehow Public Team Return Bad Batch's campaign in the redemption arc

[00:15:51] of that storyline.

[00:15:53] Yeah I think there are some great twists and turns in Bad Batch.

[00:15:57] There was one plot point this season that made me groan a little bit but mostly I was

[00:16:03] really impressed with the writing. I thought that they did not take cheap shots.

[00:16:06] The character arcs felt really full and earned especially with people like Crosshair.

[00:16:14] And I'm just so satisfied with the season also as you alluded to Marilyn

[00:16:19] the visuals are stunning they're absolutely stunning and it's amazing how much better

[00:16:26] Star Wars animation has gotten. I've always been a complainer about 3D animation.

[00:16:31] I've been like you know what bring back hand-drawn animation it looks so much better.

[00:16:36] They're getting to a pretty good point with 3D now.

[00:16:39] I don't even know the difference between those two things so I don't know if for

[00:16:43] the sake of anyone listening who doesn't know you want to explain that briefly.

[00:16:45] No I just mean like the classic you know Disney animation you know you're

[00:16:49] watching Snow White that's hand-drawn but compared to this which is computer generated.

[00:16:56] They've been doing something in modern times that I really love where they make

[00:17:00] 3D look 2D and that adds so it's got that.

[00:17:05] I mean and I would say to a certain extent they do it with like the backgrounds for

[00:17:08] instance in The Bad Batch and so the backgrounds of The Bad Batch look like paintings and

[00:17:13] that for me that's I want to hang them all as posters on my wall.

[00:17:16] Yes the backgrounds to me are the best. The motion of characters is still awkward and

[00:17:24] I'll say that animated has never really reached me all that well it just you know I equated

[00:17:31] it with cartoons which of course is it's not the same thing of course it isn't right but

[00:17:37] I'm slowly having to you know say okay there they go with an animated walk let's just look

[00:17:44] at the pretty background and wait until we don't see them walking and it'll be fine.

[00:17:48] So I know I'm mostly drawn in by the story and the fact that I am drawn in enough that

[00:17:52] I can mostly overlook the things that jar me out of it says how good the story is.

[00:17:59] Well for those of us who have been playing video games for most of our lives exactly we are not

[00:18:04] bothered by awkward character movements and mouths not moving when they should we're just

[00:18:10] like this is much better than what we had. My sum total of video game experience I remember

[00:18:16] the King's Game way back when I remember it was like Sim Planet where you had a whole planet

[00:18:26] and you were supposed to build it up and eventually you run if you got a sentient race that

[00:18:30] could blast off into space and bugged them. That's it most of which probably nobody has ever

[00:18:39] heard of. I haven't. Nope. Well all right sometime shall we take a quick break and then

[00:18:47] we will head right into the full spoiler review of these two shows. Sounds good. Awesome.

[00:18:51] And we're back. Alicia you did the outline for this so I'm gonna pass it to you in a second

[00:19:18] to lead us through but I just want to give a quick spoiler warning for everyone. We're

[00:19:22] going to discuss everything that's ever happened in Star Wars if you don't want to be spoiled

[00:19:26] for things or if you want to learn more about it head to the Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast

[00:19:31] link in the show notes. Dude good dude it's superb. Oh thank you. For now stick around if

[00:19:38] you want to know what happened or if you already watched it. Alicia take it away. I mean I thought

[00:19:44] and of course we Maryland's contributed a lot to the notes as well but I thought overall we

[00:19:48] could just touch on starting with the bad batch season three, touch on the main character

[00:19:54] arcs and some other points starting with of course our girl Omega. This is really her coming

[00:20:01] of age story more than anything else I would say. So we got the news about her high M count

[00:20:10] many midichlorians. Were you guys at all surprised by this? What do you think it means? Do you

[00:20:16] think she was engineered that way on purpose? What do you think? How much is M count biological

[00:20:25] and spiritual and how much is it able to be engineered? I really am left with more questions

[00:20:34] than answers about Omega along those lines and one or two others because you know it's hinted

[00:20:40] that she's really strong in midichlorians and so therefore strong in the force and then we get

[00:20:45] Ventress coming in and trying to test her and oh no she's you know she's really low but then

[00:20:50] later saying oh actually no she's got it really high so what was supposed to take away?

[00:20:57] I thought when Ventress said that I didn't think that she meant it. I thought Ventress was

[00:21:04] kind of protecting Omega in a way because she knows if she gets labeled as you know

[00:21:09] being force sensitive that changes her life. But some she told somebody actually she has

[00:21:14] a very high clamp count. Yeah well yeah apparently she has a high blood count but then

[00:21:21] does that mean she's force sensitive? I've always thought that Omega was though because

[00:21:24] she does there's just been several subtle things that have happened throughout the

[00:21:28] three seasons where she just seems to have extra awareness of her surroundings obviously

[00:21:33] connection with animals but I was always betcha. Well one thing that I found really

[00:21:42] interesting the very first or second episode when she and the guys are all in the cell

[00:21:52] together the first time she seems to be imprinting on them. They make a point of

[00:21:58] showing her taking on the postures that the other guys are taking on and just really

[00:22:07] listening very closely and tracking. And that's the first time we see pulling a

[00:22:12] tile off the wall and crawling in between the walls to escape. So we come full circle in

[00:22:18] the end with that particular technique. I just don't feel like I know enough about what it

[00:22:24] means for her to be a clone. Why she was made I mean if the whole thing about aging

[00:22:33] she seems to be aging in human terms quite at a normal pace. No her aging is more like

[00:22:41] Boba Fett's just normal aging. Yeah and of course you've discussed another podcast the

[00:22:47] whole question of genetic sex characteristics and how do you clone two females out of an

[00:22:56] male donor. I mean that maybe that was the the core of Nala Say's experiments which she was

[00:23:04] trying to do just that. Yeah I'm not going to try to make sense of Star Wars biology.

[00:23:09] I think we're just gonna have to take them out of their words. It's the same thing as

[00:23:14] Westeros biology right? It's like the seed is strong they have black hair so they must not

[00:23:19] you know it's always the father's hair like hmm yeah exactly like there's just

[00:23:25] you just got to kind of take these universes at their word sometimes say it's okay it's not the

[00:23:29] same rules as the real world it's fine. But I think that they do think about the writers

[00:23:35] especially nowadays do think about this to a certain extent that's why they're giving us

[00:23:38] this storyline in the first place so I think we have to at least ask how much of that were

[00:23:43] they thinking about and how much of it is like wouldn't it be cool if a couple were chicks

[00:23:47] you know yeah that's that's my concern I mean it I want it all to be coherent even if it doesn't

[00:23:55] track with earth you know biology or whatever at some point I'd like to know what biology is

[00:24:01] it supposed to be tracking with and I'm also finding it interesting that her name omega means

[00:24:07] last even though she was the first one to be created I think is what we're taking away from

[00:24:14] this she was at least in the probably Boba Fett was the first but she was at least

[00:24:18] well why is she supposed to be before him I should know I don't know she did mention

[00:24:22] that she's older than the bad batch she's definitely older she says that at one point

[00:24:26] and you kind of look at that and say yeah really well how are you counting age here

[00:24:30] because you sure don't look older yeah exactly well I like that it raises interesting

[00:24:35] questions like that but it's also like we have to remember Grogu is 50 baby Yoda it's 50

[00:24:40] but Grogu is an entirely different species I have a lot of questions about the aging

[00:24:44] and that species but that's neither here nor there right right so you know I gotta say

[00:24:51] about omega when she was first introduced I was skeptical about the bad batch overall because

[00:24:56] I was like you're doing a spin-off of a spin-off but that's the same thing Andor is

[00:25:02] right so right y'all so that's kind of just a star wars tradition now yeah exactly filling

[00:25:08] in all the gaps so I was skeptical to begin with and we get there and I'm like all right

[00:25:13] the bad batch was pretty cool in their arc in the clone wars now they got to bring a kid along

[00:25:18] for this whole time are they going to return the kid at some point and then I had to say

[00:25:23] to myself this is a kid's show you need a kid's point of view for this show

[00:25:28] and then I my eyes opened and I started to really enjoy it more and omega ended up being

[00:25:33] a really cool character and I really enjoyed her arc and I really enjoyed seeing clones

[00:25:39] get a chance to be parents which was awesome I mean we got that a little bit in the clone wars

[00:25:45] I think Rex finds you know a character a deserter who has his own family now right I remember

[00:25:53] that episode and I really liked it a lot but this is the clones getting to like nurture one

[00:25:58] of their own who never had that and that feels different and I appreciate having characters

[00:26:05] like omega on on screen you know she's a very consistent character but she's she's got this

[00:26:11] soft-hearted determination and often we're told that having a soft heart gets you into trouble

[00:26:17] and she does get into trouble but then she gets herself herself and others out of it

[00:26:21] and I like to see characters like that succeed um I like that for instance at the beginning

[00:26:27] of this season she releases bachelor because he's going to be killed and you know they're like well

[00:26:33] that's he's just gonna die out there and then he doesn't and he helps her and um I think we

[00:26:39] need more examples of that in literature where you do the kind-hearted thing and it comes back

[00:26:44] and helps you later because that is often how it works in real life I think and now I'm

[00:26:47] thinking maybe another way that omega is unique among the clones is she had what we might call

[00:26:56] a parental relationship for a long time with Nala Say and was able to you know see what it was

[00:27:05] to form bonds in an elder younger sort of fashion and then she again this imprinting on

[00:27:13] the on the badge she saw loyalty she saw cohesion she saw unity and that becomes in her

[00:27:24] we don't leave anybody behind we need to rescue this person we need to take care of this person

[00:27:30] you know this is what we do right so I think it much environment is anything and I agree with

[00:27:37] you Alicia this is refreshing and I like it and we definitely could use more of this sort

[00:27:42] of approach to things I see that a little bit in jumping ahead in barris in her episodes this

[00:27:48] time I'm gonna push back a little on this being for children maybe it started out that way

[00:27:55] holy cow um as I said one of the episodes was almost triggering you know and I'm no longer a

[00:28:02] child by any stretch of the imagination but uh I would be pretty tough I mean I don't

[00:28:09] if I were a parent I don't think I'd really want to have my kid watching this by themselves

[00:28:14] I'd want to be there at some point yeah right no I think you have to I mean in general exposing

[00:28:20] your kids to star wars is going to open up some difficult conversations because this is a dark

[00:28:27] world of storytelling which it's probably why people it reflects our own so much it's probably

[00:28:32] why people take to it but yeah there's some heavy stories in here and and I I think that

[00:28:39] is appropriate I think it's needed I think that if you don't have your child in a place

[00:28:46] where they can safely discuss these questions you're not doing them a service right but my

[00:28:52] objection is don't advertise the show as oh sure the kids will love it because then you get

[00:28:58] the sense of okay I can plop them down in front of the tv and this is quote-unquote

[00:29:02] safe for them to watch I don't think it is again not a parent shouldn't be even talking

[00:29:07] about it but there you are no but okay fair um yeah I just about omega's arc I just appreciate

[00:29:15] that overall throughout the show they took so many opportunities to show us how clever she is

[00:29:20] with her winning of games and um and just showing her being a very consistent character

[00:29:27] so anything that they do with her now if they make her force sensitive if they make her a

[00:29:32] leader she really feels like she's earned whatever that status is she's shown who she is

[00:29:39] but I think the most interesting character arc in the show is crosshair do you guys agree

[00:29:47] yeah I would say so I mean the season one twist I just pitched this to somebody

[00:29:52] yesterday on our discord we said I'm not sure you know season one starts off so I said the

[00:29:56] end of season one has an amazing twist I would say one of the best twists in star wars

[00:30:01] wow you're better than I am your father uh no I think that one's better that's that's the

[00:30:08] classic you can't beat that that's the best twist in all of media thank you I'm relieved

[00:30:13] but this is it's pretty close this is you know yeah he he you think he's like oh you're

[00:30:19] brainwashed your brainwashed he's like I had my chip removed years ago I chose to do this

[00:30:26] great absolutely amazing do you think he was telling the truth yeah I think so we haven't

[00:30:33] gotten anything to the contrary we haven't also gotten anything into why he had it removed in the

[00:30:38] first place or somebody else must have had it removed because he couldn't have independently

[00:30:43] said yeah remove my chip could he I mean I guess he was aware of it right because of

[00:30:49] the others um but I they didn't know about the chip earlier but they didn't know it was going

[00:30:54] to cause order 66 right yeah right so I mean again they're there they're being a little jazz

[00:31:00] hands there I think with the whole yeah I mean I think how did this work I think he is maybe

[00:31:06] the cleverest even maybe more than tech uh the cleverest of the bunch and that he wants

[00:31:12] that clarity of mind but just it shows just like understanding the situation doesn't mean

[00:31:16] that you're going to make the quote unquote right decision until yeah he gets pushed to a

[00:31:21] certain point and then that was the other best twist when he when he just like took out his

[00:31:28] commander and took off and it's like nope I'm done with this now yeah yeah yeah well there

[00:31:33] is that sort of guiding principle all along and that is you know what's best to cross here

[00:31:39] I don't know about that I don't know why yeah right where it ended definitely not

[00:31:44] because we saw yeah we saw that he actually did care and that's because he realized this is

[00:31:50] best for me I don't know I don't think he was ever in the what's best for me I think he

[00:31:57] with the empire I think he believed you know I'm a soldier I'm a good soldier and I follow orders

[00:32:01] I think that was really his philosophy it wasn't necessarily what was best for him it

[00:32:05] was how can I best serve the people who create I think I think rampart we'll get to

[00:32:10] rampart in a bit but I think he's the what's best for me oh absolutely yes yes I see

[00:32:17] particularly after crosshair separates from the others he has nothing else to evaluate his choices

[00:32:24] by except his own condition and circumstances now you know I'm a good soldier sure but then

[00:32:32] what does that mean and as he becomes more and more disillusioned it does have an impact on

[00:32:39] his choices and I really do think that he is the cynic of the bunch or the bad yeah sure if

[00:32:45] you like and that will also color and frame your decisions I think he he sees orders as a black

[00:32:56] and white thing at the beginning of this oh absolutely you know good soldiers follow orders

[00:33:01] they don't question and by the end of the series he's like depends on the order I think

[00:33:05] he even has a line like that doesn't he right yeah and I I think he really had to question

[00:33:12] get to the fundamental as so many of us do like if you're going to make a big change you have to

[00:33:18] question the very thing that makes you who you are and which in his case is his marksmanship

[00:33:23] yeah and that was damaged and so he's like well who am I if I can't do this and then

[00:33:30] he goes on this whole journey to heal and then he loses the hand anyway which I don't know does

[00:33:34] that mean he doesn't have to worry about the shake anymore if he has a prosthetic hand no

[00:33:39] I don't know how does that work this is again fake science how do we how do we

[00:33:48] yeah how do we get into fake science but yeah it's a obviously he's now joining a proud tradition

[00:33:54] of star wars characters who lost a hand yes and I also see him as a sort of a han solo character

[00:34:00] in this series hmm hmm I always thought it's funny because the personality wise yeah hunter

[00:34:06] hunters the han solo I don't see hun hunters being as cynical as han solo was

[00:34:13] oh I guess I don't think of well I guess han solo is a bit cynical but more like I'm in it

[00:34:17] for the money princess yeah it doesn't get much more cynical than that I don't yeah but I think

[00:34:23] he doesn't necessarily like that's the um that's the facade that he puts up you know I'm I'm a

[00:34:29] badass space guy but he's got a soft heart underneath so does crosshair yeah yeah yeah I

[00:34:36] always like this solo movie where Amelia Clarke's character is just like you you do this front but I

[00:34:41] know that you're actually a softy sure and I think omega could have said something similar

[00:34:49] yeah probably not quite that language but uh and again she is motivated by the we don't leave

[00:34:54] our own behind and crosshair in that initial phase is saying look don't be stupid get out

[00:35:03] of here leave me behind what are you talking about um so it again it's interesting where did

[00:35:09] she inculcate that compared to crosshair whose you know mantra initially is good soldiers follow

[00:35:17] orders and if that means I'm ordered to do this death charge I will do it but then when

[00:35:24] he found out that the empire was not going to take care of quote unquote their own

[00:35:30] bringing back the wounded clone that flips and do you think that flip was too soon or too fast

[00:35:38] or do you think it had been building all along and that was just the last straw I think it

[00:35:41] was building I think I think there were hints of it before that he's like why are we doing

[00:35:46] it this way you know okay yeah I think to put it in um D&D terms I think that crosshair is a

[00:35:55] lawful neutral and so he liked the structure and the order until he's like until it crosses

[00:36:03] a certain line and he's like I am not lawful evil well it's interesting because structure

[00:36:08] and order and compliance um are often excellent ways of avoiding uh complex choices and moral

[00:36:17] dilemmas yeah and all that sort of thing and it's interesting how so many others of

[00:36:23] the clones have that same imprint in them of you know good soldiers follow orders but how many of

[00:36:29] them push against that and eventually reject it all together yeah I think that's that's sort of

[00:36:35] one of the points of what happened with the Jedi right is that the clones were built to have

[00:36:41] this robotic thinking and there's there's actually a lot of interesting questions that

[00:36:45] arise on the cold war of like how are we different than the droids right right uh but

[00:36:51] but the Jedi let them have their own names and let them decorate their uniforms and give

[00:36:56] them the sense of individuality that eventually lets them rebel sometimes if you want conformists

[00:37:04] why are you taking the DNA from a bounty hunter good question and I think perhaps

[00:37:12] physical specimen isn't that nice for uh for the actor I can't remember his name off the top

[00:37:18] tomorrow tomorrow yeah yeah isn't that nice for him to just be called the perfect physical specimen

[00:37:22] I mean I hope he enjoyed it I hope he enjoyed it I wonder though if the Jedi weren't doing

[00:37:29] that individuality thing for their own sakes too and I don't mean that they were being you

[00:37:33] know self-serving or whatever I think it's part of the the Jedi concept of the forces in

[00:37:39] all things and here are living things and therefore there are forces in them as well

[00:37:43] and they are individuals whatever you want to say because they needed to interact with them

[00:37:48] as individuals yeah I also just think it's proximity like even if you wouldn't necessarily

[00:37:55] be friends with someone normally if you work closely with someone you're probably going to

[00:38:00] strike up a conversation every now and then right right just to have rapport yeah and

[00:38:07] to be able to accomplish your uh your orders or goals or whatever yeah I I know we have to give

[00:38:15] a shout out to Dee Bradlee Baker who uh played all of the clones incredible yeah and he must

[00:38:24] love crosshair because he gave him the best voice did you see his goodbye TikTok yes it

[00:38:31] was so good I'm gonna play it here I ripped the audio from all of us of the bad batch

[00:38:39] we wanted to thank all of our many fans for their loyalty and appreciation

[00:38:46] as well as for their devotion and their love we had a blast boom now let's go finish this

[00:38:58] it's cool to see it on TikTok because then you see that it's just the same man sitting there just

[00:39:03] modulating his voice yeah yeah yeah yeah incredibly talented and he certainly gave well I don't even

[00:39:12] know if I'll say that crosshair had the most distinctive voice because I mean record

[00:39:16] no I said the coolest voice the coolest yeah to me it's a creepy voice yeah okay fair yeah you

[00:39:23] could see him when in the video if you watch it he like pulls his lips back over his yeah

[00:39:29] and that's how he does the voice and I'm like yeah that's that's it that's crosshair

[00:39:33] and it's kind of ironic that the the actor voices crosshair to say we appreciate you for

[00:39:42] your loyalty think about that for a minute yeah yeah but but also can we give a shout out

[00:39:50] that he used tech's voice yes oh my gosh I know tick yeah I love the way that omega shouts tech

[00:40:01] Marilyn and I were the last ones holding on to hope that tech would be back seriously

[00:40:06] no I'm glad I'm glad that he died I'm glad that I'm not glad that he died but I'm glad

[00:40:12] that he stayed dead I don't I still feel like he could be in a back to tank somewhere next

[00:40:17] to Kino Loy that's my theory for now I think there's a lot more hope for Kino Loy than there

[00:40:21] is for tech yeah all we got was broken glasses I need more I'll be shocked if we ever see tech

[00:40:29] again I think that it would they would be viewed as lesser script writers if they decided to do

[00:40:36] that which is sad but again you know I am dead isn't if dad doesn't mean something then

[00:40:43] yeah it's just sort of a chief yeah you you can have dead mean something and then yeah I mean

[00:40:51] this is basically a comic book story so well again maybe but I think it's an adult comic

[00:40:58] book story yeah oh but I am surprised that nobody else died um I really thought at one

[00:41:05] point I actually thought that wrecker did die until he actually turned up you know in the

[00:41:10] epilogue um but I he was looking real bad like he wasn't gonna make it did you were you guys

[00:41:17] fearful for anyone in particular in the finale wrecker for sure wrecker for sure I honestly I

[00:41:24] could have seen all or most of the bad bats dying in the finale and just omega yeah the

[00:41:29] only one I was like she's gonna make it out was omega they're not gonna kill me right

[00:41:33] right especially I think that they're gonna want to use her again yeah yeah especially

[00:41:37] a children's cartoon yeah quote unquote thing too we didn't really see a lot of force action from

[00:41:42] her so are we gonna see that eventually maybe I mean we're seeing a different kind of force

[00:41:48] action yeah recognized yeah is she ever gonna show up to luke school of witchcraft and wizardry

[00:41:54] no maybe maybe omega's gonna ride the mythosaur oh somebody's gonna ride a mythosaur somebody's

[00:42:02] gotta yeah I should have pre-loaded my bocatan song on that one oh well especially

[00:42:08] yes since we hear from her later but um you can always sing it now john if you really want

[00:42:13] that's all right that's all right it was kind of a quiet season for hunter and wrecker though

[00:42:18] wasn't it they were just kind of playing mom and dad all season who's who uh I hunter is

[00:42:24] definitely mom and wrecker's dad okay all right all right fair enough I think of wrecker is as

[00:42:29] the fun uncle fair uh what's what's that like popcorn thing that he was always getting with

[00:42:36] omega popcorn thing oh it's a snack he loves oh the snacks right right right right yeah I forget

[00:42:43] I love I love that he's like the uncle who's like ah kid here I got my snacks here

[00:42:48] we're going on a road trip very funny yeah who's your favorite member of the batch john

[00:42:54] oh that's so tough I did really like tech and he's gone now he was my favorite too

[00:43:01] I think mine is hunter hunter yeah I mean if you're accepting omega but I think I think it's

[00:43:07] hunter I mean he does insofar as they have a leader he appears to take that role but um it's

[00:43:14] also he's he's like the quiet one who sits in the corner and lets everybody else

[00:43:22] sound off and put all the pieces on the table and then

[00:43:27] after having listened and thought then he says okay this is what we're going to do

[00:43:31] and the fact that all the others follow him tell me that they look upon him as their leader too

[00:43:40] yeah yeah so like post clone wars after they've all defected right you know they they could

[00:43:49] have chosen anyone as a leader but he just was the leader and that's pretty cool yeah he

[00:43:54] embodies that but not in an overbearing dominating kind of way no which I really like well he

[00:44:01] clearly has heart and the fact that the others follow him and you know clearly see that I

[00:44:07] think that he also speaks more to them you know as as I look at the way what people want

[00:44:15] in a leader and that also is a way of judging what kind of person the follower is you know if

[00:44:22] you know what I mean I do I understand yeah yeah what I see there is they trust him

[00:44:27] yeah and that speaks volumes to me I also think of the time when Lannister quote from Game of

[00:44:32] Thrones any man who must say I am the king is no true king and hunter never has to say

[00:44:40] charge he never has the pole rank exactly yeah exactly yeah although I mean I have to say I

[00:44:46] always identified with omega the most because I guess maybe because she's the girl and she loves

[00:44:52] animals a lot so both good reasons she loves betcha betcha you're much better at it than I am

[00:45:00] that's that's pretty good uh we got we gotta keep moving because we're running out of time

[00:45:05] well so let's let's uh jump over to emery speaking of clones um I thought the uh the

[00:45:14] arc was pretty obvious to me what it was going to be but I thought it was really well done and

[00:45:18] I really appreciated especially how they used that doll twice yes to show her breakthrough

[00:45:24] moments um I thought she was pretty likable do you want to see more John no no do you

[00:45:31] want to see more Marilyn yeah I agree with John I she was there she served a purpose I mean I have

[00:45:39] lots of questions but I guess you know if they don't ever choose to answer them and it's not

[00:45:44] going to you know get up my nose or anything just the same kind of questions I have with

[00:45:49] omega why was she created when was she created why did she tell omega they were sisters what does

[00:45:56] that mean and then seem to completely ignore the fact so not ultimately in the first place

[00:46:02] yeah but not ultimately not ultimately and yet you could argue that it was as much maybe if

[00:46:08] not more the children that were snatched and put into that horrible institution yeah that

[00:46:15] that changed her yeah but I think I think especially omega because seeing seeing omega

[00:46:23] go back for crosshair seeing omega that omega released bachelor and it helped her and that

[00:46:29] and I think also seeing that Nala say helped omega and it made I think that made emery

[00:46:34] realize there was another way because she had never seen anything then other than what she

[00:46:38] was raised with this empire certainly all those things were seeded her and got her started

[00:46:45] yeah I think it was you know that you could say there was some justification for bringing

[00:46:50] in omega because she was a clone and because she was Nala stays initially and so on and so on all

[00:46:56] part of the project thing these are three random four random kids snatched from various parts of

[00:47:01] the universe for absolutely no reason brought in where they don't know anybody they don't know

[00:47:06] what's going on I mean it just it was really if that didn't change her then she would have

[00:47:12] been a different character yeah I think so I think so mm-hmm yeah um I do hope for more

[00:47:19] just because of these questions that you bring up like I want to know indeed when was she created

[00:47:25] and why and how and um I still have questions about this whole cloning program if they answer

[00:47:31] them in a novel or something then I'm happy with that too um I I'm one of the many people

[00:47:37] I know who saw her with crosshair at the end was like oh maybe they'll get together wait

[00:47:42] a minute wait a minute this is not game of thrones no talk about close genetics

[00:47:49] that really would be on the way yeah I can't see them doing that sort of going forward from here

[00:47:56] in a continuous timeline I mean if they want to plug in something that happened before the whole

[00:48:01] bad batch arc yeah I might be more comfortable with that but um yeah I think yeah they're

[00:48:08] gonna I mean the whole all the villains were um were around this this area called

[00:48:14] Tantus this mount Tantus on the planet called Wayland which comes right out of the legends

[00:48:20] throng books so it was really cool to see that and to see you know as we talked about

[00:48:26] the project necromancer is the whole bringing back of Palpatine and yeah just to see them

[00:48:34] setting up those things and I think they're not done with that I think they have to go a little

[00:48:39] more into that I don't know do you think we're gonna see more of the clone ex assassin program

[00:48:44] did brainwashed clones well they've lost all of Nala's say stuff yeah um but that was

[00:48:51] it sounded as though they were intending to just shift everything over to project stardust

[00:48:57] yeah I think maybe except for you know Palpatine's backups they're they're done with the whole

[00:49:04] cloning thing and for anyone who doesn't know project stardust is the building of the death

[00:49:08] star oh come on you have to have seen rogue one please but also but also they do have a

[00:49:14] later cloning effort we know that because you have the whole arc in the Mandalorian

[00:49:19] right right so as I said they have the technology somewhere but um but they have

[00:49:24] to start over kind of now but um but also but the brainwashing thing too also reminded me of

[00:49:30] those uh those troopers we saw in the Mandalorian too so I think it's interesting they seem to be

[00:49:36] tying together these two eras it'll be interesting to see where it goes but I am sure glad

[00:49:41] that Dr. Hemlock got what was coming to him I found that pretty uh satisfying oh I think

[00:49:47] that had to have happened don't you yeah well especially because like when they were walking

[00:49:51] out to this structure on this bridge and it was misty and it was a circular structure it really

[00:49:55] looked like they wanted us to be thinking of Camino you know so it's it was just like what

[00:50:01] Nala Se did my one of my favorite Glipshido characters if she counts as such um justified

[00:50:08] her love my love for her by taking out the other one Rampart um who yeah I thought did you

[00:50:16] guys think that Rampart was going to get like a Kalos style redemption arc like in Rebels um

[00:50:22] because I thought that's where it was going no I didn't think he was I thought I thought

[00:50:26] he was going to either accidentally help or just help out of self-interest

[00:50:31] but I didn't think he was gonna have like a change of heart oh gosh no no heart what's that

[00:50:37] no I don't think he showed much of that at all in some ways I mean well I don't know how

[00:50:44] good he was at following orders because I don't think he was supposed to do what he did on

[00:50:49] Camino I don't know if those were orders or not but I yeah I he in some respect well

[00:50:58] Hemlock was the stereotypical evil mad scientist and there isn't much you can do with him but

[00:51:05] Rampart having these opportunities over and over and over um you know he kept saying oh

[00:51:11] I can't do that I can't do that but he did and then as soon as he saw an opportunity of

[00:51:16] redeeming himself that's all he was interested in he just wanted to get on the side of the

[00:51:20] biggest bully in the playground yeah no I I was glad they subverted my expectations I thought

[00:51:26] yeah it was interesting yeah but this whole thing makes me aware of how one can be at a

[00:51:33] real disadvantage if one isn't familiar with all the different pieces or in the books in the

[00:51:40] video games you know outside of the certain whatever cannon you consider to be and and you

[00:51:46] get confused and you don't recognize the references unless someone as brilliant as Alicia points them

[00:51:50] out to you and then you sort of build your background if you will and understand the

[00:51:55] backstory a little bit but I'm sure there were things that were happening there that just went

[00:51:59] right over my head and I don't even Easter eggs but just you know particular plot points

[00:52:04] well you read the Lord of the Rings and you don't know who Baron and Luthien are right

[00:52:08] exactly there's any any universe this deep is just gonna have a learning curve

[00:52:15] and I think we just have to learn to live with that I think it's also a benefit too like I was

[00:52:21] saying with this season I was not surprised by how it ended because I knew it had to

[00:52:27] end with the cloning stuff like that you know it wasn't this was probably one of the

[00:52:30] reasons why the second half is slower for me because the reveals were things I already knew

[00:52:35] had to be revealed to make the dots line up on the timeline so if you're experiencing this

[00:52:41] in timeline order or if you're experiencing this without knowing these extra things then

[00:52:46] you're gonna have more surprises right which may be why I was happy with the second half

[00:52:52] more happy than you were because you know as I say there's just a whole lot I don't know

[00:52:57] and I'll just say anytime they gave an overhead view of Tantus I thought of something rather

[00:53:02] different than Camino that image wow yeah well no the overhead view is the overhead view yeah

[00:53:10] yeah it was was pretty explicit and I kind of wondered where they got that whole design

[00:53:15] feature in the first place and why they followed it but yeah well you know what

[00:53:20] Nala Say got rid of the main copies of all the clone stuff and if you don't want to lose

[00:53:25] your backups make sure you subscribe to Dropbox I'm just I'm just kidding I'm not doing an ad here

[00:53:31] I'm not doing an ad here

[00:53:36] Palpatine is an avid subscriber of Google Drive

[00:53:40] uh-oh I'm leaving right now I'm definitely a Google Drive proponent for the record but

[00:53:47] but I yeah I love to Nala Say's she was you know at the beginning she started out kind of

[00:53:53] very morally gray and uh but we saw in her case it really was I think her love for Omega

[00:53:58] above all else that made her stand up and and do what she did in the end which you know she's

[00:54:06] one of the last of her entire species that's right and I left out there I think that was

[00:54:11] followed up very closely by her love of her craft you know more than then simply the

[00:54:19] scientist seeing how far they can push things or whatever it it she really as as she was

[00:54:26] dying you know she referred to it as being uh Kaminoan so you know their whole species

[00:54:35] their whole planet which of course is the Star Wars weakness that we talk about sometimes

[00:54:38] you know the monoculture of a planet but setting that aside um she was motivated

[00:54:46] by her pride in her craft and her people but even more um by her love

[00:54:53] and I always liked her better than her colleague whose name I can't remember

[00:54:58] um who was the one to be treated I am lucky in her place just that she seemed unendingly sad

[00:55:04] even before she was you know trapped here and so forth and maybe that's just how they create

[00:55:12] their visage and so forth but um even in the uh even when we were first introduced

[00:55:18] to Kamino in the prequels um I don't know it's an interesting conception emotional yeah they're not

[00:55:25] an emotional people well in one sense they're not but in another sense I was constantly getting

[00:55:31] emotional cues from them so right I know maybe I'm just reading myself into no I think it's

[00:55:37] well done the way they do it subtle yeah definitely definitely so I'm looking at

[00:55:43] the outline and I see that the longest section by far is on a character who appeared in literally

[00:55:48] one episode imagine that I can't just hear kids I was going to say well we have to talk about

[00:55:56] the other special guest starting with Assange Ventress who I've been arguing on the discord

[00:56:03] and anywhere else people were listening to me for years now she's not dead she she lived

[00:56:10] through worse in the comics I never doubted her she's back we got at the end of the novel you

[00:56:16] know we got those night sister whispers and the glowing water and and you know she was

[00:56:21] preserved and stuff so we see her back with she's got a yellow saber from the book um

[00:56:27] she's got a new look with her hair growing out and she's got scarring on her face which seems

[00:56:34] to suggest that whole you know the lightning strike and she makes that comment that

[00:56:41] what have we I should have written down exactly what she wrote but it was um what she said

[00:56:45] but it was uh I've got a few lives left in me or something like that yeah yeah yeah

[00:56:51] so we've been so she's part cat yes exactly that's what I took away from it too so now I

[00:56:56] love her more a new version of the flurkin yeah we've been promised though answers so

[00:57:02] I think that's definite conversation confirmation that we're getting her back in some form in the

[00:57:06] near future yeah yeah I was really glad to see her I thought she was one of the more

[00:57:13] interesting characters in the clone warrens by the end and I did read the book I read I read

[00:57:19] dark disciple and that was really great and I was so bummed to see that she died at the

[00:57:24] end of the book but this was this was great this is yeah witches never really die they just

[00:57:30] reincarnate yes exactly but at least there's there's a plausible lore reason why she came

[00:57:34] back here right that's why I don't want somebody like tech to come back but tech like they didn't

[00:57:40] show him definitely dead they just showed smash gosh game of thrones has ruined ruined the

[00:57:46] discourse on character does it's game well and there's the guy that crawls out from under the

[00:57:50] dumpster right I've heard that instance several times although I've never seen that

[00:57:54] show either the walking dead yeah yes but this is another example of I I know virtually nothing

[00:58:02] about ventress and so the whole you know did she die didn't she die she's back at all

[00:58:08] all of this is is something that I am interested in from a distance because I really don't know

[00:58:13] any of it so my most important question is does Vos know that she's alive so in the novel she

[00:58:21] um Vos yeah she and Quinlan Vos form a romance but then of course you know he's

[00:58:29] very emotionally lays her to rest quote unquote at the end of the novel so

[00:58:35] he and he's was last seen and Obi-Wan Kenobi being linked to something called the path which

[00:58:41] is a way of smuggling force force sensitive kids to safety so that comes up a couple of

[00:58:48] times speaking of force force sensitive kids the kiddos um I'm wondering if we're gonna get

[00:58:56] cameos of them or something older later in the timeline um yeah I'm saying we're building up

[00:59:02] the cast for Luke Skywalker's school for magical children well wait but this is uh

[00:59:10] because that's a that's a lot later okay magical children yeah fine fair enough yeah

[00:59:15] they finally got their Hogwarts letter yeah maybe they J's uh Rey's Jedi academy is with a bunch of

[00:59:22] old Jedi didn't get cancelled no uh there's gonna be they're working on the new the film

[00:59:30] with her with Daisy I never believe that anything they say is coming yeah not fair

[00:59:33] that's fair that's fair yeah you need to wait until the the ads are up for yeah when it's in

[00:59:38] theaters I will believe them right yeah right but uh were you guys excited about the Cad Bane cameo

[00:59:45] any other Cad Bane fans just me uh Cad Bane is fine I'm not like super hot on Cad Bane I know

[00:59:52] he's popular with a lot of people he gets a little his shtick gets a little annoying for me

[00:59:57] like if I'm gonna have that style of character I'd rather just have Boba Fett or I'd rather

[01:00:01] just have somebody like crosshair and yeah is Cad Bane the sort of western bottom yeah yeah yeah

[01:00:08] he doesn't do it for me okay he really feels out of place just me you know who I want instead

[01:00:14] of Cad Bane give me Hondo yeah well I'm excited for that too I want more Hondo I see that

[01:00:21] although of course he's not a bounty hunter but that's fine after a while bounty hunters

[01:00:25] seem to get kind of monochrome maybe that's why they dress them in such different ways

[01:00:29] except for um oh who's the woman who winds up being V but no no no this is in in Mando world

[01:00:37] or Book of Boba Fett what's his first line of uh his marshal if you will Zenneck Zenneck

[01:00:46] Shand oh yeah Fennec Shand yeah she showed up uh as well in this season she did and I knew

[01:00:53] who she was and I like her complexity she seems to have something of a moral compass

[01:00:59] I just haven't figured out where it's pointing yeah yeah fair yeah and we got uh Tarkin Tarkin

[01:01:05] and Pelpy teen of course and uh I I love also Senator Choochee I love the the pentorians are

[01:01:13] just really pretty and she's like nice and cool smart yeah I did appreciate more development

[01:01:20] on Senator Choochee yeah yeah she's just one of those characters it pops up every once in a

[01:01:24] while in the background and that's good I'm happy with that um and the Zillow Beast is free so

[01:01:30] that feels like something that's being planted for a later story because it's just

[01:01:35] roaming roaming around uh the planet Wayland so which is a mid-rim planet by the way you know

[01:01:40] some part of me can picture the Empire deciding they're going to use Tantus to test their

[01:01:46] Stardust project because there's so much on there that they don't want

[01:01:51] and uh could really be worried about don't they I thought their first test was Jedha

[01:01:59] I thought that's the first time they fired it right no doubt I can't think it's the first

[01:02:05] only time that they tested yeah but I mean yeah I just uh they can I wonder what's gonna happen

[01:02:13] if Tantus will come back in later cloning stories like around the amando ahsoka timeline

[01:02:20] but um so we we also got the wolf rex reunion which is a nice one for rebels fans because of

[01:02:29] course we see those two together in rebels living out their old age together and uh we also got

[01:02:35] that nice reference to the Clone Wars finale when rex admits that he faked his death

[01:02:41] so that actually kind of made me emotional just mentioning that finale

[01:02:44] um and uh he pops by to say hi so and we get another reminder of text speaking of being emotional

[01:02:51] um but yeah what do you guys think about sid's story ends off screen with her being tortured

[01:02:57] for information about fee does that feel like justice you know that one completely slipped me

[01:03:04] by I didn't even think about it I said is dead to me no don't don't betray my boys and my girl

[01:03:16] she yeah I'm dirty and she paid for it also yeah she did not that I condone torture even

[01:03:23] for the most severe of criminals yeah no but you know she definitely deserved to be punished

[01:03:30] in some way you know me justice in some way but I don't I don't think torture is the way to do

[01:03:35] that I think it's a it's a dark ending for her but yeah a lot of torture in star wars

[01:03:40] well she was living on the that edge wasn't she it's yeah I think she always thought

[01:03:45] she could take care of herself and yeah yeah high risk high reward kind of lifestyle

[01:03:52] yeah but overall it was a pretty happy ending for our crew I couldn't believe that

[01:03:58] pabo lived I thought that I can't either I'm so glad actually though I'm nervous about pabo

[01:04:04] I really am yeah and it's not it's really not consistent because they know the location now

[01:04:11] um they already you know threatened to trash at once there's nothing to stop them from coming

[01:04:17] back and doing it again I was really surprised that they ended on pabo I mean I get the

[01:04:22] happy feels thing now that that's almost the children's story aspect of it

[01:04:28] if they weren't trying to go for a children's audience I'm I wonder if they would have done

[01:04:32] that rather than trying to find a completely different location to hang yeah on the children's

[01:04:39] story I know you raised before it might not be appropriate for children I think a certain age

[01:04:44] you can you can say all right it might be appropriate for children but you think about

[01:04:48] the star wars movies which george lucas has repeatedly said our children's movies

[01:04:52] they're for children yeah which I know I disagree with him on a lot of that too

[01:04:57] but episode three has a genocide yeah and yeah I don't know I don't know how uh how appropriate

[01:05:05] for children some of the star wars movies really are but right yeah but if you're going as that

[01:05:11] as the gauge of what's appropriate for children this is tame of course of course you know

[01:05:18] watching Anakin crawl limbless out of the lava I think is quite a lot worse than anything we see

[01:05:26] in here I agree particularly because it's you know it's not animated it's live action

[01:05:32] I was 12 years old when I watched that and I my dad explains a few things no

[01:05:37] I'm pretty sure my dad took me out of school to go see it in the theater on the

[01:05:40] release day yeah yeah he said he surprised me he's like you did well this whole year and

[01:05:45] I want to bring you to the movies today I was like that's so nice good memories

[01:05:50] speaking of age when do we think this epilogue for the bad batch took place because

[01:05:56] so we hear that um omega is a rebellion pilot so does that mean it's during the original

[01:06:03] story which is 18 years after the after you know the bad batch season three in which case

[01:06:10] I just have questions like what's with the aging of the the clones didn't look like hunter looks

[01:06:15] like he was getting on but not yet old um not as old as as rex and wolf look it like in rebels

[01:06:22] which is set earlier and how long do lurka hounds live well rex rex was one of the

[01:06:30] original clones right he was one of he was one of like the first round and were are the

[01:06:35] bad batch younger than rex I don't know probably I guess even a couple years is

[01:06:41] is more significant for the clones than it's also regular people I I went into a deep dive

[01:06:47] and there's a lot of argument online over whether do the clones age double the rate or

[01:06:52] do they just fast age up front and then just have that initial 10 15 years cut off their

[01:06:59] lifespan but we need a batch of plushy

[01:07:06] I think that could sell

[01:07:09] oh I'll meet you when we get the doctor who plushies from from the uh oh yeah specials

[01:07:16] they've already made those come on oh did they just manufacture no no no no I'm saying they

[01:07:21] made them for the show just manufacture them and I sometimes they don't I don't understand

[01:07:26] why they don't just take our money for these sorts of things but I'm not going to get a star

[01:07:30] beast I'm sorry no well I want one that um there's this kind of cat stuffed cat that you

[01:07:39] squeeze it and it goes from like a cute face to like an angry uh toothy face so I

[01:07:44] want a star maybe not like that that's pretty funny I like that I'm hoping that they are

[01:07:50] going to plug omega into some future something or other in which she is a pilot and extremely

[01:07:58] good at it and that kind of thing I don't know at what point in the timeline that would be

[01:08:03] happening or what form of show it might take place in but uh and or season two oh wow no

[01:08:10] I don't think so I don't think Charlie mad well but if you allow her to develop yeah if

[01:08:16] you allow her to develop I think she could but yeah but but Tony Gilroy doing and or is not the

[01:08:21] cameo guy he's not he's not like let me throw in the member berries he's he's like this is my

[01:08:27] story everyone else can get out of here yeah but one thing I do notice them setting up in both

[01:08:34] uh this and the tales of the empire is like I said that story of the path you know the

[01:08:39] kids are being sent on the path and so I'm wondering if we're gonna get an announcement

[01:08:44] soon tales of the path anyone no probably something else but I think maybe a continuation

[01:08:50] you know like the bad batch continued the clone wars maybe there's going to be a path based

[01:08:56] story that will continue uh the bad batch and maybe omega will feature strongly in that

[01:09:02] yeah and ventures makes sense very cool stuff well speaking of a lot of this end off

[01:09:11] to the bad batch yeah speaking of the path we have some very different paths to talk about

[01:09:17] in uh tales of the empire yep all right let's take a quick break when we get back we'll get

[01:09:21] into that and we're back and we are already short on time so we got to get right into

[01:09:49] tales of the empire let's let's talk about overall I think the arcs of Morgan Elisbeth

[01:09:57] and Baris Offie yeah so I just wanted to for those who um are paying attention this sort of thing

[01:10:04] I just want to point out that the first Morgan Elisbeth episode the path of fear takes place

[01:10:10] 20 bby so two years before the final season of the bad batch uh the second episode probably

[01:10:15] around seven bby based on thron being an admiral um although people are thrown by the

[01:10:21] starter story that shows up in terms of timeline and the third episode is nine bby so that sets

[01:10:28] up directly the Mando season two episode three uh where we first meet Ahsoka in live action

[01:10:35] nice yeah well I'm going to risk drawing Alicia's ire here by saying that the whole

[01:10:43] Morgan story seemed very flat to me I wanted a more interesting Morgan one with some more

[01:10:49] nuance than she had and something more than just a thirst for vengeance um she was very contained

[01:10:57] very closed in um I wanted more about the night sister culture I wanted to know about

[01:11:04] their abilities I wanted to know how they formed how they interact with the forest you know what

[01:11:08] what is it about them if you're going to instance them I mean don't tell me to go

[01:11:12] and read six books because that begins to feel a little bit like like you know the Avengers

[01:11:17] and the MCU which I don't think Star Wars wants to go down that path but I hope they don't

[01:11:24] it was just she just was one more villain um using whatever was available to her

[01:11:31] to dominate and to be cruel I didn't understand what her objective was

[01:11:36] and I'm not even sure that she understood um they they just didn't take time to spell it

[01:11:41] I just I just think they could do better okay what did you think of the um mountain

[01:11:47] clan that we met in the first loved them loved them loved the statement no surprises here right

[01:11:54] with the paquilla scale and all that it's no surprise that she said just because I do not

[01:12:00] choose to fight does not mean that I cannot although I was what she did fighting I don't

[01:12:05] know I mean you make the point Alicia that it seems to be very strongly more defensive

[01:12:10] than then aggression and attack kind of like what Obi-Wan tells Luke about using the force

[01:12:16] right well yeah it's kind of yeah it's they're light side users if we can assume based on the

[01:12:22] light they generate so uh it's a very interesting contrast you know the they come

[01:12:27] from legends and this is them finally being confirmed or at least seeing them in canon and

[01:12:34] it just makes me more curious about all the other sorts of clans on Dathomir and I'm excited

[01:12:40] that we seem we're gonna get more of this this is did you find them a kind of nun coded

[01:12:45] coded culture with the way they're dressed in the fact their leader's called the matron

[01:12:50] no because nuns are not the only form of of contemplative life okay um you can have I mean

[01:12:58] you might go to Tibet I think to look for some of their influences and origins that

[01:13:05] the whole setting a part of some people to be special and different because they are

[01:13:09] contemplatives that's not what this culture is it seems to me the whole culture is connected

[01:13:15] with whatever it is that um the the clan leader the clan mother exhibits very very well and I

[01:13:24] don't get a sense that there has to be celibacy um you know I don't get a sense of sort of a top

[01:13:31] down uh administrative structure for lack of a better word it's just you know that all of them

[01:13:39] have this gift if you want to call it that some of them develop it more than others and

[01:13:45] some of them are steeped in it and study it more deeply than others and others just say yeah

[01:13:51] well I'm glad that this exists because it enhances my life but it's not really a part of my life so

[01:13:55] yeah I wonder if this is part of this whole idea that's been started in Ahsoka of

[01:14:03] anyone can learn to use the force right this has been kind of put forward and I'm not sure

[01:14:10] I'm totally on board with that okay I see you now maybe here is like we have the society that

[01:14:18] assumes I think if I'm going to be generous with this I think that that it is an interesting

[01:14:25] thing to say that the assumptions of society can can alter the abilities of people right you know

[01:14:30] we talk all the time like the expectations you give to a child can affect their outcomes and

[01:14:36] in this society they say anyone can use the force so we're all going to learn how to

[01:14:41] whereas in general galactic society they say these special few can use the force so only the

[01:14:47] people who are super naturally strong with it will ever get to it it's similar to the wheel of

[01:14:52] time actually I think of where there are people who are so sort of in tune with the one power

[01:14:59] that they'll just get picked out and go right to the white tower but there's also

[01:15:03] people who can learn to use the one power if it it binds us all together and exists in all

[01:15:09] things then yeah everybody has access to it it's kind of like musical talent you know yes

[01:15:16] there are occasionally tone deaf people other than that everybody has access to music everybody

[01:15:22] can resonate with it differently some people can devote their whole lives to it right and become

[01:15:27] incredibly skilled artists and so just on that same kind of a scale and I can see where this

[01:15:33] would also fit in with Luke saying the Jedi have to end because imposing that kind of a system

[01:15:40] makes it much easier to assume well I'm certainly not a Jedi so I guess I don't have

[01:15:45] access to the force right right um yeah I mean I'm just glad that we're seeing more variety

[01:15:53] in force users because it doesn't make sense that there would only everyone would do it the

[01:15:57] same way um and it was cool to see general grievous back I think he looks scarier than

[01:16:02] ever with a tricky third arm um I just yeah I'm I'm glad that they at least addressed the

[01:16:11] fact that Morgan didn't have the face markings but I kind of thought I think it would make

[01:16:15] more sense in line with like other Nightsisters we stories we've had if instead of having her

[01:16:23] rescued by the Mountain Clan what if she left the Mountain Clan to join the Nightsisters um

[01:16:28] and that's why she didn't have the face markings and felt alienated from them and

[01:16:32] blah blah blah blah but anyway I'm not trying to rewrite it I think what we got is interesting

[01:16:38] rewrite it I really want Morgan to be an interesting three-dimensional character I

[01:16:43] just don't feel like I've gotten that yet I do think though that um her actions in the end

[01:16:49] like maybe she kind of doomed the Mountain Clan you know she brought the attention to them

[01:16:53] where they were just kind of safe in their little perch yeah and I think maybe that guilt

[01:16:59] is something that drives the rest of her um arc through the other two episodes yep

[01:17:06] no I can buy that it was super interesting to see her as a designer of the Tide Offenders um

[01:17:13] I think yeah now that I would have liked to have seen more of because that's an added dimension

[01:17:19] and then it just kind of all disappears and she's back being an evil magistrate

[01:17:23] you know yeah granted if they're short episodes you can only do so much right I'd like to

[01:17:28] see more about her affinity with with uh spacecrafts like that and yeah but of course

[01:17:33] very recognizable she got that disdain from off is stain um I know every woman almost every

[01:17:41] woman can probably relate to that at some point in their life exactly yeah um I think

[01:17:46] as a magistrate of Corvus it was interesting to see that she I think she really meant to help

[01:17:52] the people at first and then it was almost like she kind of gave up at some point she's

[01:17:56] like there's nothing I can do for these people I just need to think about my own goals

[01:18:03] I think I would like the moment where yeah I mean I think I think it was the moment where the

[01:18:07] empire is like yeah we're just gonna take your resources like we don't yeah you know I think

[01:18:12] she in that moment goes I can't I can't succeed with kindness she feels really defeated there

[01:18:19] and she's like I just have to I have to be colder I have to be cooler to succeed in this

[01:18:23] world now I'm thinking of Sauron who initially thought yeah I can bring order and control

[01:18:30] and of course Vader you know so right right temptation to Luke right and of course I've got

[01:18:37] to love Thrawn showing up but not just Thrawn we also got Pellion again his he's a second from

[01:18:43] legends and we've been seeing him more and more of those rebels amando teases um and we got Rook

[01:18:50] who Rook it feels like almost Yiddish yeah it does it does he reminds me of Gollum

[01:18:58] yeah the very first time I saw him he really does seem to be a Star Wars version of Gollum

[01:19:04] I mean yeah so he shows up and dies and rebels which is interesting because he's the one who

[01:19:08] kills Thrawn in legends um but you can really see in this why he would want to kill Thrawn

[01:19:14] and I appreciated that you know when uh when Thrawn comes and dismisses him he's like okay

[01:19:19] monkey thank you for you're done dancing with your knives you can creep away now

[01:19:23] and he gives him this look I'm like oh still feel like he's gonna kill him somehow

[01:19:29] um and I have to say I replayed the conversation over and over between Morgan

[01:19:35] and Thrawn just because I love the music so much so and it's actually super charming it's

[01:19:41] so Kevin Kiner is a composer done lots of stuff um and his kids Sean and Deanna have been

[01:19:49] I mean they're not that they're children you know but his children uh they've been

[01:19:52] contributing and so for the first time all three of them are credited for this show as a family

[01:19:58] which I just think is really nice and they did I think they really enhanced it updated

[01:20:02] the Star Trek it's the whoops sorry the Star Wars sound get out of here with your

[01:20:10] stuff I don't even remember the name of the ship the Enterprise Enterprise

[01:20:14] yeah but yeah I do agree that revenge is still kind of a boring motive and not really well defined

[01:20:23] because like I guess she doesn't know the Empire was behind the attack on the night sisters but

[01:20:28] I still need more clarity who's she getting revenge against yeah I guess grievous does she

[01:20:33] know Grievous is dead I yeah I think I mean she must know Grievous is dead at uh because

[01:20:39] he was a major figure and she's a magistrate um or dead too like everybody really everyone who

[01:20:46] directly ordered that attack right is gone right so she has an anger with nowhere for it to go

[01:20:52] so it goes to everybody yeah I mean we know of course from watching Ahsoka what her long

[01:20:58] game is and it seems to be to reach Paridia and uh her people there um but I don't know

[01:21:06] yeah I don't know why they didn't set that part up more in this question yes yes again it really

[01:21:14] was not suddenly she does have a motivation but yeah it really was not enough information

[01:21:19] and you know you said you only have so much time but they made this they could have made

[01:21:22] them longer yeah I know I don't know why they're so short yeah yeah what an idea

[01:21:28] but John I have to ask were you excited to hear Bo Katan's voice on the phone

[01:21:31] when they called for help from Corvus uh I'm I'm more of a Bo Katan now than I was

[01:21:37] okay previously I really did enjoy her towards the end of season three of Mando but I just

[01:21:46] I do still have the petulant sitting on the throne Bo Katan stuck in my head sometimes and

[01:21:51] I'm like oh my god you're exhausting yeah I think that's a touch of the father speaking

[01:21:58] oh my god my daughter my daughter started doing this new fun thing where you say hey

[01:22:08] do you want to eat dinner I can't everything is I can't now so that's that's the new

[01:22:13] rebellion I can't eat I can't I can't do that it's a more refined version of no no

[01:22:18] she'll she'll go I can't do that right now and I'm like oh okay okay how many times how many

[01:22:24] times have you and your wife said that to her we can't do that now uh not not that often the

[01:22:31] only thing I ever do is if I if I have to work from home and I I go to like get a cup of water

[01:22:37] or something to be like hey let's go play I'm like I'm sorry I can't right now I gotta go

[01:22:40] back to work yeah but uh maybe she learned it there I can't I can't a little translation

[01:22:47] you know filtering but uh that sounds pretty familiar yep yeah yeah well about Morgan I

[01:22:55] think that her tale's ultimately about desperation for belonging so I found it I obviously liked it

[01:23:00] more than you guys I am I found it kind of a tragedy I do still hope something comes of this

[01:23:07] whole trip to paridia we saw in Ahsoka to get some payoff for her but uh yeah I I still

[01:23:14] feel like there's more to know about her and that is the one disappointment for me here um

[01:23:19] I would love to have heard about desperation for belonging I well I saw it I saw it um

[01:23:27] because I saw even in the beginning in the magistrate you know she she was trying to

[01:23:32] help them until she felt rejected and then she kind of just handled that badly but

[01:23:37] someone who handled it better and yeah it sounds like every dominating tyrant I've ever

[01:23:42] heard someone you guys were more keen on was barris offy um I liked her because she had an

[01:23:50] arc and there were explanations and I could relate to what her process what she went through

[01:23:57] you know having been jailed for life quote unquote to be given an alternative heck yeah

[01:24:03] and then through all each of the episodes you know the the second of her arc is called

[01:24:08] realization the realization that actually no I can't do it this way yeah and I do have to

[01:24:13] find you know having tried to convince yourself that yes this is a good thing and they're bringing

[01:24:18] benefits and realizing heck actually no they are not um and then leaving and uh

[01:24:27] finding her own path and yeah I like to know for anyone who's keeping track of dates uh the

[01:24:35] first episode devoted takes place 19 bby so the year before the bad batch finale which is you know

[01:24:41] when order 66 happens because of course we need to see it again from a new vantage point

[01:24:48] and then episode five realization takes place one year later so the same year as the bad

[01:24:52] batch finale and 18 bby and then we jump way ahead to the way outs which is it has to

[01:24:59] take place after obi-wan because the fourth sister was in obi-wan and not redeemed yet so

[01:25:04] must be like nine aby um interesting yeah we got to see I mean I do love the inquisitors in

[01:25:14] general you guys inquisitors fans I like them I like them yeah it's an interesting concept um

[01:25:21] I can understand the necessity because not every jedi was attached to a division of clones

[01:25:28] at the time of order 66 so there's two looking it's a big galaxy and and I I do I both love

[01:25:37] and I think it's stupid when they have that like helicopter thing with their lightsabers

[01:25:41] oh I think they only did it like once but I loved it I mean it's so stupid but I loved it

[01:25:46] it is it is very stupid it's like what how does that okay maybe it enhances force jumping

[01:25:51] somehow no oh come on guys it's a special effect it looks cool I'm glad they haven't

[01:25:58] waving hands nothing to see over here move on move on yeah yeah it was great to see though

[01:26:05] the grand inquisitor back and did you notice that marok was with him from asoka the green

[01:26:10] gas bag so I feel like we're gonna get some we are eventually gonna find out who marok is

[01:26:17] I think um and of course yeah the fourth sister lynne rakish from obi-wan um and vader I kept

[01:26:25] wondering like I wish they had done something or maybe it's better that they didn't to acknowledge

[01:26:30] the fact that vader walks in at the end of the first episode and sees this woman who took

[01:26:36] down his padawan and kind of in some ways helped spin him toward the dark side yeah I

[01:26:42] wondered about that too I think again as john said earlier if they made them longer episodes

[01:26:47] probably would have seen that but to even bring that up would be to yank the focus over to vader

[01:26:52] and he already gets enough focus just by walking in a room so right and this is a story I do

[01:26:58] think vader at this point in the story especially is like anakin skywalker is dead any prejudices

[01:27:04] he had against anyone in the past doesn't matter yeah yeah I guess it's true that he

[01:27:11] is really considering himself gone a different yeah like a new person

[01:27:17] yeah and it's only later after he finds out that he has children

[01:27:22] that's what really that he starts to be like am i anakin still right because I was he kind

[01:27:28] of in a way turned because of that because he thought that the kids died with bad money

[01:27:33] yeah nothing else he you know nothing was tying him to being anakin yeah and you know

[01:27:39] there's there's an interesting question that's come up a few times on our podcast of like

[01:27:44] what if anakin had not been dismembered and forced to become the the suit right would he

[01:27:51] have been publicly anakin skywalker still you know hero of the empire who took who who sided

[01:27:59] with the emperor against the traitorous jedi right and how would that have changed the whole

[01:28:05] perception yeah I mean I would love to see we have visions and that's great but I'd love

[01:28:11] to see some real what if spins on stuff like that there was there was a great moment in

[01:28:18] asoka where you see red-eyed anakin you know like really like vader anakin but as full

[01:28:27] you know fully bodied and we talk about like that that is what that is what obi-wan deprived

[01:28:34] the emperor of having at his side because that's even scarier full-powered anakin as vader

[01:28:40] hmm I don't know because I feel like when you look back in the history of the sith the ones who

[01:28:48] just live in constant pain are often among the most powerful I think because that that

[01:28:54] pain keeps them feels their rage exactly exactly fair enough um speaking of yeah fueling

[01:29:03] rage redemption arcs what do you think about the fact that barris's redemption arc included her

[01:29:07] pushing someone off a cliff to her apparent death that all was kind of vague to me

[01:29:15] what what I got most from the the second of her three episodes was

[01:29:22] that her motivation for becoming an inquisitor included some jedi-like tendencies i.e she did

[01:29:28] believe that you know she'd already had the preparation of yeah these jedis really are not

[01:29:34] what they're all cracked up to be and so continue feeding of the line yeah they were really messed

[01:29:41] up and now we're fixing things would still appeal to the the jedi portion of her if you will

[01:29:49] and wanting to do genuine good for the galaxy but the deeper she got in and the more she was

[01:29:55] exposed to what they were expected to do and why um she realized that wanting to do genuine good

[01:30:02] for the galaxy the only way to accomplish that was through an extinction of free will

[01:30:08] yeah but as long as you have free will you're going to have conflict right and you can't

[01:30:14] create a utopia and anytime you hear anybody promising you that they can create a perfect

[01:30:18] world you should smile politely and look for the nearest exit their methods are eventually

[01:30:25] going to have to be not to your liking but yeah yeah but um we can we can do better and i think

[01:30:31] it's of course we can through cultivating free will but that's always what it comes down to

[01:30:36] indeed the classic especially fiction philosophy philosophical debate well cultivating free will in

[01:30:43] a way that recognizes its limitations and how do you allow for all the other free wills no

[01:30:49] yeah yeah um so i have to point out a cool detail that i especially star wars explained pointed out

[01:30:58] to me but also i've heard other people talking about it since so people were talking about how

[01:31:01] much older barasoffy looked in the final episode versus the fourth sister and um one thing that

[01:31:08] we've learned from other properties about force healing is that you give yourself a part you

[01:31:15] give away a part of yourself to the person you're healing like a bit of your life force

[01:31:18] so that could be an explanation for why she aged more rapidly that is not in keeping with the usual

[01:31:28] healing systems in our cultures so i find it interesting that they chose that explanation

[01:31:36] yeah yeah i think that says something about her too um but yeah do we think she's dead no

[01:31:43] i think no she's not dead she's not dead this one i'll give to you

[01:31:49] she's earned her not deadness um yeah i think i think this this triptych of episodes i think

[01:31:58] is asking when do you realize you've gone too far that would be my summary of the theme

[01:32:04] i enjoyed it i thought that this was a good way to explore what felt like a really genuine

[01:32:11] redemption arc for an inquisitor right and and it's really interesting to see how she was made

[01:32:18] into an inquisitor because it only validates what she was already doing right you know she

[01:32:22] ended up in prison because she had assumed that the jedi were corrupt and starting a war based

[01:32:28] on this uh and they were like you're right you were absolutely right and so now you're

[01:32:34] going to be rewarded with a place on the emperor's elite team elite squad to quote

[01:32:41] unquote fix it right very cautionary tale about fake news and check your sources yeah

[01:32:49] i think both these characters were presented with you know they they had anger based on

[01:32:55] things that had you know happened to them and um they had reasons to want revenge but then

[01:33:01] the question is do you become the monster that you seek to destroy exactly i also have to point

[01:33:09] point out that this ends with uh them sending off more people to the path where quinlan voss

[01:33:16] ventris's boyfriend is they seem to reference asoka i'm just putting it out there for all

[01:33:22] the internet points path show these characters bring it on i'm into it make it so i think

[01:33:31] that's a good note to leave it on so if you want to send feedback to us which we have none of

[01:33:37] today you can send it to star wars at the lorehounds.com you can go to the lorehounds.com

[01:33:43] use the contact form to leave us a voicemail or a contact form entry and uh there's there's

[01:33:49] plenty of stuff going on here at the lorehounds so we hope that you'll join us for things like

[01:33:53] house of the dragon season two which we're doing our season one rewatch right now

[01:33:58] uh we are about to start doctor who alicia we're going to be talking about that new season it's

[01:34:04] kind of a soft reboot because there is continuity with the previous stuff but they're calling it

[01:34:09] season one it's season one it's season one for some reason i guess because it's going on

[01:34:14] disney plus for the first time yeah there you go the mouse has to have its cut yep the the

[01:34:20] acolyte is coming uh so plenty of stuff coming on the lorehounds feed yeah so you

[01:34:26] and i are gonna talk the acolytes weekly yes you and i are going to talk the acolyte for star wars

[01:34:30] stuff and uh that's gonna be a lot of fun it's on the star wars canon timeline podcast which you

[01:34:36] can already subscribe to now and start off with the old republic the origins of the jedi

[01:34:43] uh into the high republic where we'll be talking about the acolyte

[01:34:47] so check the show notes for that very busily uh releasing those episodes to give some good

[01:34:52] background for the acolyte yep uh you can also check out alicia's other feed we'll shift us

[01:34:59] you want to talk about what you're doing there yeah so next week we'll be um picking up the

[01:35:03] next batch of beacon 23 season 2 episodes we'll be covering episodes 4 through 6 so things

[01:35:10] are taking a very interesting very interesting turn in the season so uh curious to see what

[01:35:17] happens in 6 and break that all down yeah yeah uh rings and rituals still going strong maryland

[01:35:24] what you got next oh yeah well what sara and i have got next is only two more episodes to

[01:35:30] record so wow kind of a surprise um and then there's a guest episode with you where we talk

[01:35:37] about music which we'll have to sort out exactly how to get that all set up and ready

[01:35:43] to drop um yeah it's being a fun ride we had a huge amount of feedback on our most recent

[01:35:49] recorded episodes so keep it coming folks we're having a lot of fun very cool i'm i love uh rings

[01:35:58] and rituals i've been listening religiously thank you john i really really one might say

[01:36:03] it's become a new ritual for you every wednesday every other wednesday rather

[01:36:07] and thus rituals are born radioactive ramblings a fallout podcast is no longer a fallout podcast

[01:36:14] and is now doing invincible season 2 they've done the first four episodes of the season

[01:36:19] they'll be back with a podcast wrapping up the season and they're going to be doing

[01:36:22] the boys coming up so a lot of good stuff on that feed check it out probably howard movie

[01:36:28] review they just did pulp fiction there was also i don't know if you two have listened but

[01:36:34] our shogun season wrap-up had uh you make my dreams come true as one of the sounds for

[01:36:41] the montage of what's gonna what's gonna happen next to the characters and that was still loaded

[01:36:47] up in zen caster when they recorded their pulp fiction review so they rift on it for

[01:36:52] like two minutes you gotta listen it's very funny okay yeah it's in my playlist too uh and

[01:36:58] they're gonna have a rerelease of the dune 2 conversation which i think you were on alicia

[01:37:02] yes so it was very exciting then they'll be back with their season

[01:37:06] felonies and fugazis to talk about all the fun crime themed drama and i go ahead

[01:37:15] i have to throw out one more one shot that's coming up uh kingdom of the planet of the

[01:37:20] apes this is my my little uh baby that i really want to cover so if anyone has any

[01:37:27] thoughts about kingdom of the planet of the apes or the planet of the apes uh whole series

[01:37:32] including the one back in the 70s please send us an email and now that you're full

[01:37:37] or how nobody can stop you there you go i really hope that david and i are going to

[01:37:42] get our act together and do our one shot on dick turpin because it really deserves

[01:37:48] to be held up to a wider audience yeah i really need to watch them and if you guys

[01:37:53] do the one shot then that helps me move it up the list okay david you heard it here first

[01:37:59] let's get this thing on the road are you listening david all right uh you're still you

[01:38:06] you're still new to it alicia so why don't you do our patreon and supercast shout outs

[01:38:12] as well as our discord shout outs okay okay uh so let me see if i get do it a little

[01:38:19] more smoothly this time so thank you to our discord server boosters opus and the machine

[01:38:24] narles erin k tiller the thriller dork of the ninjas and duv 71 and thank you as always to

[01:38:30] our lore masters without you none of this would be possible and that is sam martian

[01:38:36] michael g michelle e david w brian p nick w sc peter oh batina w adam s nancy m duv 71

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[01:38:56] huang yu dead i jedi bob nathan t alex v erin t sub zero erin k dali v 21 mothership 61 our

[01:39:07] louis newest lore master thank you and narles and of course always last always least just

[01:39:15] kidding only about his pink floyd opinions adrienne thank you thank you what a marvelous host

[01:39:25] all right everyone thank you so much for listening thank you for being a patreon or

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[01:39:34] just three bucks a month and hire if you want to shout out some things like that

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[01:39:45] all of that plus our show guide plenty of great benefits over there including second

[01:39:51] breakfast with which alicia will now be on with me and david so very exciting

[01:39:56] all right everyone may the force be with you and also with you always the lore hounds podcast

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