The Acolyte – S01E02 – Revenge / Justice

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast.

[00:00:21] And The Lorehounds Star Wars Podcast. I'm Jon.

[00:00:24] And I'm Alicia, and today we're wrapping up our twin acolyte premiere breakdowns

[00:00:28] with a deep dive into Episode 2, Justice Slash Revenge. So Jon, of these first two episodes,

[00:00:35] which is the light side twin and which is the dark side twin?

[00:00:38] The answer is yes.

[00:00:39] My answer is no, neither.

[00:00:45] Listeners for this crossover podcast series will be following the Star Wars Canon Timeline

[00:00:50] Podcast spoiler rules. So we might mention characters from later or vaguely reference

[00:00:55] well-known events from later in the timeline for those who know those stories, but we promise not

[00:01:00] to spoil any of the big twists or story arcs to come.

[00:01:03] You already got to practice bleeping me once in Episode 1, Alicia.

[00:01:07] But don't worry, spoiler lovers. We'll have a couple episodes for subscribers only this season

[00:01:13] where Alicia and I will go deeper into how the events of this new era connect with events later

[00:01:18] in the timeline. More on that in the coming weeks.

[00:01:21] We also have a small separate section after our episode breakdown this time to discuss

[00:01:26] speculation based on trailers. We're partitioning that off for those of you who like to avoid that

[00:01:31] information. We'll warn you before we get into that, and I'll add timestamps in the show notes

[00:01:35] to let you know when that happens and when it's over.

[00:01:38] For these first two episodes, we're releasing the episode on all feeds at the same time.

[00:01:43] Starting next week, subscribers will get access about one day before the episodes hit the public.

[00:01:49] This is also true for the Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast feed, which will

[00:01:53] follow the same schedule. I'm setting up the Canon Padawan Supercast now,

[00:01:57] but I will include a link already in the show notes as well as the usual Lorehounds link,

[00:02:02] and next week tell you a bit more about what's included.

[00:02:06] At the end of this episode, we'll also talk more about what's going on on the Lorehounds feed and

[00:02:11] the rest of the network this Hot Lore Summer. Check the link tree in the notes for links to all,

[00:02:17] including our lively Discord where we're deep in acolyte discussion.

[00:02:22] And for the record, this conversation was recorded June 7th, 2024.

[00:02:28] And Jon, before we get into the episode, we have to address one controversy from the first

[00:02:35] episode that is blowing up Twitter, which is we talked about the fact that OSHA was startled by a

[00:02:41] fire in space, but we just ignored the fire in space part. Oh, stop yourselves, Twitter. This

[00:02:48] is Star Wars. Get over it. There's been explosions and loud nonsense in space where that's impossible

[00:02:56] forever. There's hyperspace. Just stop yourself. Yeah. I just have to say for this podcast in

[00:03:02] general, anyone who hasn't listened to the Young Jedi Adventures episode, I went through a theory

[00:03:08] posited by someone on Reddit that there is air in Star Wars space. They provided ample evidence and

[00:03:15] they convinced me and I'm just not going to worry about it anymore. Not that I did in the first

[00:03:19] place, but I'm just going to ignore sounds and fires and other weirdness in Star Wars space

[00:03:25] because it's a fantasy. Yeah, it is space fantasy.

[00:03:31] Let's get into episode two of this space fantasy or should we say space mystery? We set up the show

[00:03:38] and gave our spoiler-free hot takes in our breakdown of episode one. So let's just jump

[00:03:42] right into episode two and full spoiler effects for any Star Wars events up to this point in the

[00:03:48] timeline, 132 BBY. So episode two is titled Revenge Slash Justice and the writers were Jason

[00:03:57] McAuliffe and Charmaine de Gratte. I'm more familiar with de Gratte's work. She's a Hot

[00:04:04] Lord Summer crossover. She is the, I guess it seems like main writer on season one of House of the

[00:04:09] Dragon. Oh, interesting. I mean, that's prestigious. Hey, Star Wars is also prestigious.

[00:04:17] I know, I know. But, but see, here's the thing. House of the Dragon is known for its writing

[00:04:22] particularly. And I don't, I don't think Star Wars has ever, including in the original trilogy,

[00:04:29] been known for its high quality dialogue and whatnot. Right. I actually think, I mean,

[00:04:34] people were complaining about stiltedness in the dialogue of this show, but I think that

[00:04:38] a lot of those were bad faith complaints. I think the dialogue in this show is better than 77.

[00:04:44] And I think most modern Star Wars has better dialogue than the original Star Wars movie.

[00:04:50] George Lucas was notably terrible at writing dialogue. His wife had to tell him like,

[00:04:55] you got to change this, George. And yeah, I mean, Harrison Ford said, you can write this bleep,

[00:05:02] but you can't say it. Yeah. Well, it's also to bring up something more accurate. We won't

[00:05:07] spoil plot points because it's later in the timeline, but Ahsoka, that's bothered you more

[00:05:13] than me. But I think the dialogue is better in this than Ahsoka even, and that was just last year.

[00:05:19] Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. And obviously different teams, but yeah, I mean, I think

[00:05:24] if you have a hot D writer, we're in a good spot for dialogue. I mean, the whole Game of Thrones

[00:05:30] universe, A Song of Ice and Fire is known for having those really impactful lines, the one-liners.

[00:05:38] And I think this was having some of that at least.

[00:05:43] Right.

[00:05:44] Not that you necessarily need to do that in Star Wars. I don't think that's what Star Wars is

[00:05:48] really, but... I mean, there are lines that live on and I think this show could produce some of them.

[00:05:55] Well, I've got a bad feeling about that, but it's yeah, I mean, I think that this is

[00:06:01] a universe, not a genre, and it's okay to have different tones for different shows.

[00:06:06] Right. I agree. And yeah, the director of this episode was again, Leslie Hedlund, the showrunner.

[00:06:13] So jumping into the plot summary, we start with the sleeping sensai. So with the help of another

[00:06:20] local child, May disarms a guard droid and sneaks into the Jedi outpost on the planet of Olega,

[00:06:26] where she finds a Jedi master named Torben, played by Dean Charles Chapman,

[00:06:31] floating in mid-air meditation 10 years into a barash vow that he has taken to the extreme.

[00:06:37] May issues the same challenge she gave Indara, to which he of course doesn't respond,

[00:06:42] and then tries to attack him, but is prevented by a powerful force bubble protecting him.

[00:06:46] When another Jedi enters the room to check on a noise, she gives up for the moment.

[00:06:52] So we've got another new planet, Olega, Jedi outpost. Just a reminder that at this point in

[00:06:58] the timeline, Jedi do still have satellite temples, but they've long since pulled out of

[00:07:02] the outer rim, which is where Young Jedi Adventures was set. How long ago was Young

[00:07:07] Jedi Adventures before this? A hundred years before this.

[00:07:11] Okay. All right. So they're done. They're done as the kids say. Did you know that Torben is

[00:07:19] Tommen from Game of Thrones? Well, I mean, we'll talk about trailers later,

[00:07:25] but I did see him in the trailer. So yes. I was like, what? With a beard,

[00:07:31] it was completely unrecognizable. Yeah. No, I would not have known that

[00:07:35] that's who that was if I hadn't seen him looking differently.

[00:07:41] Okay. Fair enough. I'm trying to be respectful of the people who are like,

[00:07:45] I don't want to know about trailers. Yeah. Anyway, I was just like, wait, what?

[00:07:51] I didn't expect him to be there, but I mean, I thought this was such a cool scene how

[00:07:57] he's just chilling. He doesn't even blink. He doesn't flinch at all. It doesn't look like

[00:08:02] he's struggling to fight her back. He's just like, I am safe within the force. And that's super cool.

[00:08:08] That feels very Jedi to me. That feels very much in line with those teachings is I don't need to

[00:08:13] fight. You can't hurt me. Right. Exactly. Yeah. I think that actually,

[00:08:19] now that you bring it up, that is sort of what the Sith or sorry, I don't mean to assume Sith,

[00:08:24] what the person in the smiley mask is saying is they're basically saying you have to break through

[00:08:31] this bubble where they think they're protected by or the Sith ways to somehow creep from within it

[00:08:38] and destroy it from the inside. Right.

[00:08:41] What did you think of the production design? I loved that Olega had this sort of, I noticed there's a

[00:08:48] lot of art deco influences in the high Republic architecture. And I saw that here, this was like

[00:08:52] an industrial art deco setting. Yeah. I mean, something that was sticking out to me throughout

[00:09:00] this whole couple episodes was that the high Republic looks a lot cleaner and higher tech,

[00:09:06] almost than the later timeline. And it's interesting because I could see why

[00:09:13] much further later, closer to the B closer to the Y in the BPY.

[00:09:19] Yeah. The original film.

[00:09:20] Yeah. I would see why things would have deteriorated by then, but it doesn't really

[00:09:25] make sense to me why things deteriorate deteriorated so much before even the prequels.

[00:09:30] I mean, I guess this is part of what we're going to be seeing now. Like we know this is the end

[00:09:37] of the high Republic. So something events happen in the, this last

[00:09:42] a hundred years of the high Republic that makes it stop being the high Republic.

[00:09:47] So maybe, yeah, it seems it might be what we've kind of teased in the previous episode that there's

[00:09:55] a complacency, I can say that word, a complacency that allows rot to spread,

[00:10:02] with the people get stuck in bureaucracy. Like, wow, we can't do this until we filed the paperwork

[00:10:07] and da da da, like, but people are dying right now.

[00:10:11] Right. Yeah. Yeah. We have to make sure that we go through the appropriate channels.

[00:10:15] Right.

[00:10:15] And then all the Jedi are just stuck in barrage vows and unable to do anything.

[00:10:21] Right. So yeah, about that barrage vow. So first of all, cool practical effects. I liked how they

[00:10:26] did it with him, like that he, his robe was draped. So it was hiding whatever was supporting

[00:10:31] him to be floating in the air like that. But yeah, so the barrage vow, we talked about that

[00:10:38] in the high Republic overview episode. It doesn't have to mean not speaking to anyone for 10 years,

[00:10:44] like he's taken it. I had actually assumed going into the series that Kel Naka, the Jedi

[00:10:49] Wookiee had taken a barrage vow because he's described in the marketing materials as a

[00:10:54] loner who lives a solitary life sequestered in the jungle. But here's how the barrage vow

[00:11:01] is described in the high Republic phase one young adult novel into the dark.

[00:11:07] So this is an excerpt from that novel. I can't, Des said, his voice sounded remote. He didn't quite

[00:11:12] meet wreaths eyes tomorrow. I'm leaving for one of the contemplation worlds. I'm taking the barrage

[00:11:18] vow. The barrage vow was an extreme commitment to gaining ultimate communion with the force.

[00:11:24] Those who took the vow spent years, sometimes even decades in deep meditation and in solitude.

[00:11:30] It was the last path wreath would have ever foreseen for Des. But why wreath asked the

[00:11:35] barrage vow it's taken by Jedi who've made terrible mistakes. You didn't,

[00:11:40] you haven't broken your connection to the force.

[00:11:43] Hmm. Now, now if it's an absolution tactic, I guess the question is how, how bad was what

[00:11:53] Torben did where 10 years isn't enough for him to feel like he had absolution and he needed that

[00:11:59] poison. Right? Absolutely. I mean, and this was also, well, we'll get to that, but you notice

[00:12:04] that she gave him the choice, turn yourself in or kill yourself. And he chose. Yeah.

[00:12:09] Yeah. He didn't want to face justice. Hey, that's the name of the episode.

[00:12:13] Yeah. So she got her revenge.

[00:12:19] So by the way, yeah. The, if people want to know more about the barrage vow, it's,

[00:12:23] it's named after barrage Sylvain, who there's a blade comic series set in phase two. So that's

[00:12:29] the phase you're reading now, John. So that's a hundred years earlier than what I just described

[00:12:34] 200 years before the acolytes. And, uh, that's the story of how barrage Sylvain,

[00:12:41] why she started this vow, which she, what she did basically, although it was originally brought up

[00:12:46] in the Darth Vader comics, which we'll talk about later in the timeline. Okay.

[00:12:52] So on the other side of things, team Jedi is gathering on their ship, Osha and Jackie bond

[00:12:57] until Saul walks in and Jackie goes back to serious Padawan mode and Yord winds to Saul

[00:13:03] about Osha not being restrained even says if May's alive, it doesn't mean Osha is innocent.

[00:13:08] And Saul tells him not to let fear cloud his judgment. Saul fills for Nestor in on the may

[00:13:14] of it all via comlink and Vernestra tells him about Torben's murder. This time, of course,

[00:13:19] Osha has an alibi. Vernestra asked Saul to go investigate and bring Osha to help.

[00:13:25] Yord objects, but shuts up at Saul's the Jedi agree with me later, Saul and Osha have a heart

[00:13:31] to heart and Saul shares his guilt about not being able to save both twins. Osha expresses

[00:13:36] her anger at her sister for what happened that night for what's happening now.

[00:13:41] Can I just say as a silly note, before we get into the deeper parts of the scene,

[00:13:45] every time you say Jackie, I feel like you are in the Fred Armisen SNL skit,

[00:13:51] the Californian saying Jackie, Jackie, what are you doing here?

[00:13:57] I was saying it with like a New Zealand accent.

[00:14:00] Yeah. Oh yeah. You're, you're Omega Jickey. Oh, that's funny. That's good. That's good.

[00:14:09] Well, I'll take the name seriously by the end of the season, I guess.

[00:14:13] Yeah. I mean, it's a perfectly Star Warsy name.

[00:14:17] Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[00:14:20] Um, yeah, just have to point out for the ship lovers that there were, this was, I know this

[00:14:24] was a big deal online that they revealed for the first time before showing it on screen, a new ship,

[00:14:30] the Pollen 717 Jedi transport, which, uh, it apparently it separates into two segments.

[00:14:36] The front of the ship moves forward toward the planet while the rear stays in orbit.

[00:14:40] So this might be a prototype to the hyperspace tram transport rings that we see

[00:14:46] in the prequel film era. Yeah. That's interesting.

[00:14:50] So if anyone has, knows more, more thoughts, we definitely want to hear from you. Um,

[00:14:56] yeah, Yord, we have to talk about Yord again because the way he behaves toward Osha, who

[00:15:02] was, it seems like his former friend, the way she treats him at least. And he, he was,

[00:15:06] it seems like when he first met her again, he wanted to be soft toward her and then hardened

[00:15:11] himself. But it's, it's very red flags, all the red flags with Yord. Although it is true,

[00:15:18] it is true. She ran before. And I'm wondering, do you think like he has a reason to be afraid of her

[00:15:24] from whatever happened around her expulsion? Well, what was she definitely expelled or did

[00:15:31] she voluntarily leave? That's true. She does say that she left though. Others say that, um,

[00:15:36] it was Indara who suggested she leave. Hmm. Wonder if it's both right is, is, uh,

[00:15:45] they had a heart to heart and Indara is like, I don't know if you can't let go of this anchor.

[00:15:50] Maybe this isn't for you. And then she goes, yeah, I guess, I guess it doesn't. She leaves.

[00:15:55] Yeah. I wonder, maybe, maybe she touched the darkness a little bit and everyone said,

[00:16:03] oh, that's not great. Although, you know, I, I don't think that, I think the Jedi Padawans

[00:16:09] should be able to, you know, accidentally touch the darkness and know, okay, don't go there next

[00:16:15] time. Otherwise, how do you know what to avoid? Yeah. I mean, the star Wars, uh, the star Wars

[00:16:22] Canon is littered with stories of where people are curious about that side. And then because

[00:16:27] of the way they're so harshly treated for just exploring it for being curious, um,

[00:16:33] it ends up pushing them further into it. Yeah. And something that's really interesting to me,

[00:16:38] and this is something that I read in the phase two books is that there's all these different,

[00:16:44] and I don't know if it's still around by this point in the timeline, but all these different,

[00:16:49] um, you know, sex of Jedi basically that you can explore on Jetta.

[00:16:55] And it would be, I would be surprised if there's not at least one that's like, well, we should at

[00:17:01] least know how the dark side works. Right? Yeah. Uh, I need to know about the current state of

[00:17:07] Jetta. We know that there was that, uh, civil war. Um, we know that, yeah, there were indeed like

[00:17:13] all the different four sex that we talked about in previous episodes in the kind of timeline podcast.

[00:17:18] Um, so we know at least some of them survive because years on more than a hundred years after

[00:17:24] this, we still have the guardians of the wheels on Jetta. Um, but Yord, it might just be his arrogance,

[00:17:33] his dogmatism, but he says, even if may is alive, she wouldn't have had the training as if the Jedi

[00:17:39] are the only people who could have possibly trained her. Like, is that a Yord thing?

[00:17:47] Yeah. I'm just like, I maybe his question is if a Jedi didn't train you and establish Jedi, was it

[00:17:55] OSHA? Right. Was it OSHA who gave her the training, but we see, I mean, we know as the audience,

[00:18:01] OSHA is having trouble even touching the forest. Right? Exactly. Yeah. And it's just seems like

[00:18:08] that there would be a bunch of different ways that you could learn to use the force. At least that

[00:18:14] used to be the case. So either Yord has blinders up, which is perfectly possible. He seems like

[00:18:20] that type of character or, uh, there's all of the other non Jedi sex have diminished in the last

[00:18:26] century or so. Well that, and, and they are in deep denial that the Sith exist, right? Like they

[00:18:33] are no, the Jedi are just fully head in the sand. Yeah. That's a given. Uh, yeah. I, and I, you know,

[00:18:39] their heads in tattooing, their heads are in the sand. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think the thing that

[00:18:46] is most surprising to them is that the, it is that May knew how to fight Jedi, not necessarily that

[00:18:53] she was just fighting like a Jedi, but she knew how to get to the Jedi's weaknesses. To fight

[00:18:58] against a lightsaber, I guess. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. I found it interesting that even Vernestra

[00:19:05] didn't seem to know about May or do you think she did? No, I think she knew about who May was. She

[00:19:11] just right. That she didn't know that she was alive. Right. Right. I'm S I'm so suspicious

[00:19:17] of Vernestra right now. I know she was a hero earlier in the timeline, but I think there's

[00:19:22] always been an inherent dogmatism in her that could be lead her to do what she thinks are the

[00:19:28] right things for the wrong reason. Well, come on now, no one has ever fallen to the darkness.

[00:19:35] No, no, that's never happened. Huh? Oh wait, I could use, I can use an

[00:19:41] appropriate timeline thing. Revan never fell to the dark side. That's true. More than once.

[00:19:48] I found it interesting that OSHA immediately knew Oleg meant Torben. So it seems like whatever

[00:19:57] happened on her planet as a child, it seems like she maintained a relationship with those Jedi who

[00:20:04] were there after her childhood rescue, not just Saul, but the others as well. Or at least was

[00:20:10] aware of their, what they were up to. Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I didn't get the sense

[00:20:18] that she knew him specifically, but maybe she, no, she did say it. Cause as soon as someone said

[00:20:25] Oleg and she's like Torben's there. Oh, okay. Okay. Fair enough. I forgot about that.

[00:20:32] I'm curious if we'll see what their relationship continued to be after that. I mean, I guess

[00:20:37] I have to, because they're laying those teases down, especially with Indara and her.

[00:20:43] Well, and I guess maybe it's that he was one of the four station. Like that's, what's connecting

[00:20:47] all these people is he's one of the four station on our home planet. So she probably knew all these

[00:20:51] Jedi before. They probably knew she was force sensitive. Uh, they knew she was there. And I,

[00:20:56] and I guess what I'm guessing is they knew she was force sensitive, but they learned this after

[00:21:00] she was aged out of where she could join the Jedi. And then after everything in her home planet is

[00:21:06] destroyed, they're like, well, she has nowhere else to go. Let's break the rules a little bit

[00:21:10] and let her be a Jedi. Yeah. Yeah. I always wonder about the Jedi thinking of like, Oh,

[00:21:15] we can't train children if they're above a certain age, because not just for like the

[00:21:19] creepy grooming aspects, but, um, just because you want these force sensitive,

[00:21:26] you know, some of them quite powerful people to just be wandering around out there untrained and

[00:21:32] you know, free to fall under the instruction of maybe some teachings that you don't want them to

[00:21:38] have. Well, I think this is part of the Jedi hubris of thinking that they're the only way in town,

[00:21:43] right? They, they, they do think that you, I know you're, you're comparing it with the thinking of

[00:21:49] the white tower, right? Which is like, even if you in the wheel of time, if anyone here is not

[00:21:54] a wheel of time person, this whole magic school, you know, Hogwarts school of witchcraft and

[00:21:59] wizardry, if you will, but only for women, uh, their thinking is we can't let people just wander

[00:22:04] around not knowing how to control this. So we're going to give them at least enough training to

[00:22:08] know how to not kill themselves or others. And then we're going to send them away. Uh,

[00:22:12] good question. Good question. There should be like a Jedi light training for these people.

[00:22:17] Right? Exactly. Just, I mean, cause I understand maybe some are released because they're

[00:22:23] weren't strong enough in the Jedi. I mean, someone released because they, uh, weren't strong enough

[00:22:27] or they didn't get their Kyber crystals. Um, but then at least they, they know enough to do like

[00:22:34] basic things or to understand what they have. Yeah. I think the force too is, I think we have

[00:22:42] not seen someone like accidentally use the force to detriment. Right. Is that a thing?

[00:22:49] What do you mean? Oh, oh, were they like accidentally hurt themselves with it? Yeah.

[00:22:54] That's not really a thing that happens with the force. I think the, the one power in the wheel

[00:22:57] of time is a lot more dangerous to an unskilled user. Right. And if you accidentally use it,

[00:23:03] you get sick. Yeah. And which doesn't definitely, we definitely haven't seen that with the force.

[00:23:08] Right. Right. The force is a good thing. You want to touch it.

[00:23:11] Yeah. Why? I just think about like having powerful people who might just make up their own way of

[00:23:18] doing things, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I imagine the Jedi would think it is.

[00:23:23] Right. Yeah, definitely. I think, I think just again, I think they think they have a monopoly

[00:23:27] on power with the force, you know, fighting style with the force. So they, they think, well,

[00:23:32] okay, they may be able to commune with the force and do some parlor tricks, but they're not going

[00:23:37] to be able to do any real damage or build a lightsaber or anything like that without us.

[00:23:41] Right. Meanwhile, the Sith are over there in the secret, just plotting.

[00:23:46] So we also get in this scene, Saul calls attention to Osha's tattoo on her shoulder.

[00:23:52] I'm wondering, do you, yeah, she's like, it's a crazy night with some of my crew. So this is

[00:23:56] again, contrasting that staying at home that she was talking about. But do you think the tattoo

[00:24:01] is going to end up meaning something or it's just going to be used to ID her versus May later?

[00:24:06] I think probably just ID that and, and the tattoo on May's forehead,

[00:24:11] which I mean, that whole, that whole thing.

[00:24:14] That's going to mean something. That's the spiral is going to mean something. Yeah.

[00:24:18] Yeah. I mean, the tattoo on May's forehead not being on,

[00:24:21] I noticed that immediately when we went to Osha the first time and I thought, oh,

[00:24:25] this is a flashback. And then it wasn't right. Because I didn't know this was a twin plot until

[00:24:31] we, we definitely knew, you know? Okay, good.

[00:24:35] Yeah. I didn't, I didn't watch a lot of the trailers. I wanted to go in cold.

[00:24:39] Right. Well, it was just like on the, uh, on the poster there were,

[00:24:43] she was pictured twice and, um, they had, and also I was watching interviews and she

[00:24:47] just was straight out. She was like, yeah, when I'm playing OSHA with my droid pip, I'm like, okay.

[00:24:53] Well, the good news is I don't have those spoilers. The only thing I saw was

[00:24:58] Hayden Christiansen congratulating her on everything. That was, that was a sweet video.

[00:25:03] That was delightful. Yeah. Yeah. She had such a good reaction.

[00:25:07] Yep.

[00:25:08] So what she didn't have a good reaction to though, her character OSHA at least was her

[00:25:12] family and entire village is death, which I guess, you know, um, but she says to Saul,

[00:25:18] I know you have made peace with what happened there. That is a lesson you tried to teach me

[00:25:21] many times. And he says, perhaps I wasn't a very good teacher. What do you think about that exchange?

[00:25:27] It's interesting. It's interesting. I wonder if, because, you know, soul says in the first one,

[00:25:33] you can remember the past and not repeat your mistakes. It's okay. I wonder if he's thinking,

[00:25:39] she thinks she has to let go of entirely. I'm asking her to make peace with it.

[00:25:43] That's a different thing, right? Like acceptance is not the same as ignorance and forgetfulness.

[00:25:51] Although I do wonder if Saul doesn't know some things. I have a feeling that the other three,

[00:25:55] they, the other three seem like they feel more guilty. Maybe not in Dara, but at least

[00:26:00] Torben and Kalnaka are doing versions of the barash vow, it seems. Um, and so it seems like

[00:26:07] he is the most empathetic character we've met. So if he's not feeling as guilty as the others,

[00:26:12] maybe it's because he doesn't know everything. Yeah. I will say I would almost like if does

[00:26:19] know something and he's been trying to repent. And this is part of the reason he was so hell

[00:26:24] bent on going to OSHA and saving her. That could be, uh, because that makes for a more complex

[00:26:30] character and a more interesting story. I think. Yeah. He also, he does just like love OSHA

[00:26:35] something special. It seems, um, I noticed somebody was joking online about how when

[00:26:41] Jackie's like, maybe May's alive. He's like, no, shut up. And when OSHA is like, maybe, uh,

[00:26:45] May's alive and he's like, oh, I believe you baby girl. Of course she is.

[00:26:51] Right. Yeah. That's pretty funny.

[00:26:54] Yeah. He lights up when he talks to OSHA.

[00:26:57] Yep. Yep. He, I think really, I mean, you have a near death experience with somebody that's a bond

[00:27:02] for life. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. Maybe he probably sees OSHA as more of a, on almost

[00:27:08] daughter figure because of the circumstances that she became his Padawan. And once more,

[00:27:14] we highlight one of the weaknesses of the Jedi is by banning attachments, the heart will seek out

[00:27:19] attachments wherever they can find it. Like we need, we need attachments. We need relationship.

[00:27:23] That's part of our being is I was going to say humans, but humanoids, let's say in the star

[00:27:28] wars universe. Well, even let's look at Dr. Who, you know, he's always taking on companions knowing

[00:27:33] that it won't be forever and he'll outlive them, but he needs that to tie him to, um, to, to keep

[00:27:41] going, you know? Yeah. And, and of course he's like every now and then he gets cranky and he's

[00:27:46] like, I don't need a companion. And then obviously like a minute later he has a companion. Right.

[00:27:51] Yeah. He's just throwing a little temper tantrum then as we all do.

[00:27:54] I'm the time Lord Victoria's temper tantrums. All right. No, enough, Dr. Who more star wars.

[00:28:01] All right. So speaking of people who may not be what they seem may shows up at an apothecary on

[00:28:09] a leg, a recently taken over presumably in a nefarious means by a shifty human character

[00:28:16] named Chimera played by many Cento stinking of booze. He said he waited up for her all night

[00:28:21] and she tells him about the force field failure. He tells her to find Torben's weakness. Everyone

[00:28:26] has a weakness and may ask Chimera to make her a poison. He admonishes her, reminding her that

[00:28:32] she's required to kill at least one Jedi without a weapon. She says that she has two more tries

[00:28:38] after this Chimera makes her the poison and gives her an idea saying the impenetrable meditator,

[00:28:44] like every Jedi, he only thinks he's found peace. What he really needs is something only you can

[00:28:50] give him absolution may knows what she needs to do and demands Chimera not to tell their master

[00:28:55] about her struggles. I mean, I have a feeling if Chimera is not the master himself, the master

[00:29:00] knows everything Chimera knows. Oh, absolutely. Chimera is a fair weather friend for sure.

[00:29:07] Can I also add John M from our Patreon commented? Are we not discussing Jason Mendoza? Where's

[00:29:15] Eleanor Chidi, Tahani and Michael and Janet referring to the good place? Of course,

[00:29:23] since Jason from the good place plays Chimera. Yeah. So I said I struck out when I asked Bob

[00:29:31] about watching the good place. Have you watched the good place? Oh yeah. I watched the whole

[00:29:35] thing. I love it. Okay. Yeah. Great. Yeah. It's just funny. I saw John's comment and I was like,

[00:29:42] wait, he's only an episode two. But I'm thinking we'll just address it on this.

[00:29:46] Right. Yeah. So he's famously, he plays this hilarious Himbo in the good place. And here,

[00:29:54] it seems like he's putting on a not a Himbo persona, but he's putting on this like drunk

[00:29:59] and lazy persona. But then there are moments when it counts like he's very sharp. Like the way

[00:30:06] he reacts when May attacks him at the end of the episode in the alleyway, it's like, whoa,

[00:30:13] this is a guy who can fight. He's got good reflexes. And the way he clocks that Osha

[00:30:18] is pretending to be made, not that she was very good at it, but still. And he's a very good

[00:30:23] poison maker, right? Like he made an effective poison that killed a Jedi within seconds,

[00:30:27] it seems. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't take over that apothecary shop by accident.

[00:30:33] Do you think every town he goes to, he's just like, I got to find an apothecary shop to take over?

[00:30:39] Yeah, I guess so. There's like a stack of apothecary maker bodies.

[00:30:43] He's like the taxes on these are just adding up.

[00:30:46] Yeah. I loved, by the way, overall, the vibrancy of this Olega market scene. It did remind me of

[00:30:54] the Eclipse trailer, which just the high republic, the fact that it's so diverse and lived in.

[00:31:02] Man, I hope that game's good.

[00:31:04] Yes, me too. Oh my gosh, I hope it comes out.

[00:31:09] You never know with this universe.

[00:31:10] Right. So I noticed, by the way, she asks him as soon as she sees Chimera, she's like,

[00:31:17] what are you wearing? And he says he took it off the guy who owns his place in London.

[00:31:21] It makes me wonder, what does he normally wear? Could it be something distinctive?

[00:31:28] Like a voice changer mask.

[00:31:31] Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:31:34] Yeah, that's a good question though.

[00:31:37] And of course we have to address this whole pieces of lie thing that he says.

[00:31:44] So we brought this up in the Acolyte preview episode, but you heard them exchange pieces

[00:31:49] of lie. Well, pieces of lie is the beginning of the Sith code. So the Sith code again goes,

[00:31:54] pieces of lie, there's only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength,

[00:31:58] I gain power. Through power, I gain victory.

[00:32:02] I'm going to try to not make you bleep me again, but I think that we have similar characters later

[00:32:09] in the timeline who are former Sith, but still adhere to a lot of the tenets of it.

[00:32:15] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:17] And so I think maybe that's what this whole sect is.

[00:32:22] Yeah. Yeah, it could be just because he is obviously familiar with the Sith code or

[00:32:28] teaching or whatever doesn't necessarily make him a Sith because he was described in the

[00:32:33] marketing materials as a traitor. And if that's true, then probably would get his hands on Sith

[00:32:41] artifacts. So this code could come from that as well.

[00:32:46] Would have been friends with Luthen.

[00:32:48] Yes, exactly. Yeah.

[00:32:50] You wouldn't believe that one.

[00:32:51] At least, no, Luthen exists and is a traitor later in the timeline.

[00:32:58] So just to contrast the Jedi code by the way is there is no ignorance, there is knowledge.

[00:33:02] There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death,

[00:33:08] there is the force, which sounds like a whole lot of denial, but it's nice.

[00:33:14] Yeah. I think you're right though. That is a really good point that this is all denial,

[00:33:23] right? It's all like, this doesn't exist.

[00:33:27] Right. Exactly.

[00:33:29] Instead of saying... I don't see a lot of balance in this. I know it says harmony,

[00:33:37] there is no chaos. There is chaos. The universe is chaos.

[00:33:41] Entropy is real. We can't fight it. Or we can fight it, but we'll fail.

[00:33:46] And there is passion. That's why you guys have people all the time having feelings that they

[00:33:51] have to shove down. We see modern religions today, certain sects of modern religions forcing people to

[00:34:00] shove feelings down and ignore them and it's unhealthy. And I don't think it's healthier just

[00:34:04] because these are the good guys in the story.

[00:34:06] Yeah. I mean, it's like Khaimir said, like every Jedi, Torbjorn only thinks he's found peace.

[00:34:13] I do prefer the High Republic Jedi saying it's for light and life, which is a lot more fun.

[00:34:21] No cringe.

[00:34:24] And also we have to mention that plant, Bunta, that he used for the poison. This is a new plant

[00:34:30] in the Star Wars universe and it's from Brendok, which is the planet that we find out the twins

[00:34:35] came from. And it's used for hunting in their home planet, starting in childhood. So this tells

[00:34:40] us a bit about this culture on Brendok that they are, I mean, I guess a lot of children do learn

[00:34:45] how to hunt, but it just shows that this is a hunting society that children are put to work

[00:34:53] in that way, learn to kill at a young age. It's interesting, the plant looks like kind of like a

[00:34:58] flaky red when he holds it up, but then it turns the vial green.

[00:35:03] Yeah, it's like a crushed red pepper kind of thing.

[00:35:08] So I'll be interested to see if we should be paying attention to like red plants or green

[00:35:13] vials later in this series.

[00:35:16] Yep, good call.

[00:35:18] All right, that brings us about halfway through the episode. So what do you think about a quick

[00:35:23] break before we dive into the second half?

[00:35:26] I'm loving it.

[00:35:27] All right, see you in a sec on the other side.

[00:35:50] Okay, now let's dive into the second half of the episode. So team Jedi arrives at the outpost to

[00:35:58] the surprise of the local Jedi and Saul shares that this crime may be part of a larger investigation.

[00:36:06] Meanwhile, May approaches Torben with a poison to offer him that absolution and the scarred,

[00:36:11] guilt-ridden Torben ends his meditation to take the vial and drink it. His last words are,

[00:36:17] I've been waiting for you, May. Forgive me. We thought we were doing the right thing.

[00:36:23] Interesting he said May.

[00:36:25] As the Jedi enter the temple, Osha peels off to follow a vision of her sister as a child,

[00:36:30] finding Torben already dead and picking up the vial to sniff it just as the other Jedi enter

[00:36:35] the room. Yord steps out of the shadows to confirm Torben was dead before Osha entered the room.

[00:36:40] He was following her. Osha IDs the poison as a plant from her home planet.

[00:36:46] So yeah, it's interesting to contrast Saul and Vernestra in this scene especially where we just

[00:36:53] see how much more of an open character Saul is like he's immediately he's like, hey, this is

[00:36:57] what's going on. Here's all the deeds you need to know, which does slow them down so that they

[00:37:04] are talking outside when the murder actually happens instead of being inside.

[00:37:09] Hmm. Yeah, it's I love soul. I love soul with all my heart. I think Maryland's

[00:37:17] Maryland might be in love with the man. But yeah, he's got to hurry up a little bit.

[00:37:25] Well, I mean, I think but he is then later in the episode, he's like he's the one saying to

[00:37:29] Vernestra like we don't have time for a meeting right now. We know where the assassin is going.

[00:37:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you think of your behavior in the scene? Like on the one hand,

[00:37:38] he's he stood up for her or did he cover for her? I'm very suspicious of everyone.

[00:37:46] No, I think he did follow her and he and he if he hadn't said something, she might have been

[00:37:50] arrested. But yeah, I think him following her and seeing it made me think that she it made me think

[00:38:02] it made me think that he is not part of this dark side called I think he I think he legitimately is

[00:38:09] just a hall monitor and because he followed her and was snooping. He learned that she was not the

[00:38:14] culprit and therefore he doesn't want to waste everybody's time with interrogating me. I interrogate

[00:38:19] right. Right. Do you think that so Saul was convinced that Torben would speak to him? And

[00:38:26] of course, he didn't get the chance. Do you think that Torben would have spoken to saw? I'm very

[00:38:30] curious. Maybe so. How about this? Maybe soul does not is not directly implicated in what

[00:38:38] happened, but he knows what happened and he's kept quiet about it. He's like, that's your testimony

[00:38:44] to give. I'm not going to go and tell the council about it. But you have to live with that. I think

[00:38:53] I think maybe he would have spoken to him based only on like not blackmail, but just I owe a debt

[00:38:59] you kind of right. I mean, Torben said, you know, first of all, it's interesting. Torben knew

[00:39:06] may was alive. He said, I've been waiting for you. And Saul definitely did not know may was alive. So

[00:39:12] it seems like they that Saul doesn't know something. But also Torben ends with we thought

[00:39:18] we were doing the right thing. So I think if Saul didn't know anything, you know, he would

[00:39:23] probably see that it came from a place of trying to be good. Right, right. I could think of an

[00:39:31] example later that I can't say, but sort of the Jedi Council being like, well, this seems like

[00:39:37] a bad thing to do, but also we're out of options. Right. Comes from a book. Yeah, they do. I mean,

[00:39:46] yeah, there are a few examples, I would say in the history of them saying like, this is something we

[00:39:50] never should not do, blah, blah, blah. But we're going to do it because of circumstances. I mean,

[00:39:57] we saw that slippery slope, baby. Yeah. Even in the High Republic with, you know, the way that

[00:40:03] they started pressing children to train younger and they pressed a bunch of younglings to be or

[00:40:10] Padawans to become Jedi more quickly to fight a threat. Yeah, it does. It is definitely telling

[00:40:18] though that Torben may have thought he did the right thing, but in the end he chose poison over

[00:40:22] confessing to the Jedi Council. So he does not want people to know whatever he did for whatever

[00:40:29] he thought were the right reasons. Yeah. I'm really excited to have this mystery solved. Do we know

[00:40:34] that this is a multi-season show, by the way? It is as of now. It was pitched as a multi-season show.

[00:40:41] Season two has not yet been greenlit. We did just get the first numbers in and this is the,

[00:40:46] was the most popular debut on Disney plus this year so far. Really good numbers. Yeah. So it's a

[00:40:53] good sign. Leslie Headland said, or Hedlund, I'm not sure which way I should pronounce it,

[00:40:58] but anyway, she said that she wants to do more series and she knows what she wants to do,

[00:41:04] but she wanted to take a break in between because this was a lot. Okay. Fair enough.

[00:41:10] Okay. So speaking of a lot, the next section is, it's an action heavy section. So a lot of little

[00:41:17] plot details. So the recap is slightly longer. So bear with me for a moment, but we've got some

[00:41:23] confrontations happening. The Jedi, they find out that the apothecary in town, the only possible

[00:41:29] source of this plant was recently taken over by a sudden outsider. They decide to send Osha

[00:41:36] pretending to be May to talk to Chimera recording his confession about the poison, which works,

[00:41:41] but Osha is acting weird and Chimera clocks it pretty quickly when she says she wanted to thank

[00:41:46] him. Yeah, that was definitely, she's like, I just wanted to thank you. He's like, not me.

[00:41:52] Right. The Jedi charge in Chimera plays innocent, says he's just a simple supplier.

[00:41:57] One who happens to know that may is trying to get revenge on exactly four Jedi.

[00:42:03] Yeah. He says she'll be back that night to get supplies. Sol sets Yord on watch,

[00:42:09] sends Jackie to the ship and takes Osha with him that night. Sol insists he must face may alone,

[00:42:16] though. Osha argues that she has the right saying her sister destroyed her life.

[00:42:21] Sol points out that what she's talking about is revenge, not justice. He wants the chance to do

[00:42:27] right by May. Osha points out that if may is targeting for Jedi, Sol must be one of them.

[00:42:33] Sol says Osha needs more faith in him and may both and leaves. Sol confronts may and they fight and

[00:42:40] Sol notes that she's not using a weapon and is reaching for his saber. He ultimately disarms her

[00:42:46] and she won't tell him who trained her. And when he searches her mind, he realizes that she doesn't

[00:42:52] even know who her master is and that she thinks of her sister still, who she thought was dead.

[00:42:57] Yord pops up to correct that knowledge and Jackie brings a ship to make an arrest, but may creates a

[00:43:02] cloud of dust, allowing her to escape. She finally crosses paths with her sister and they pause and

[00:43:08] look at each other. May asking, Oh, she and Osha fires shots set to stun intentionally missing her

[00:43:15] sister, pushing may to speed out on her stolen cruiser before the Jedi arrive.

[00:43:23] Yeah. Um, uh, so I have a lot of questions here. Just it's a whole lot of questions.

[00:43:29] All right. The first one being she doesn't may does not actually blame soul for anything,

[00:43:38] right? Like she actually seems to like, I think she would have killed him, but I,

[00:43:45] I think she knows that he doesn't know anything or that he wasn't guilty or complicit in it.

[00:43:51] I feel like she had tears in her eyes fighting him. I think I saw that if she looked at least

[00:43:54] very upset about it, she wasn't, it wasn't like when she was fighting and Dara and she was angry.

[00:43:59] Right, right, right. Or even Torben where she definitely had contempt for him. I didn't see

[00:44:04] any of that with her fight with soul. And maybe it's because it was unexpected where the other

[00:44:08] two were planned. But I think that she was really not happy about this whole thing.

[00:44:14] Right. Yeah, no, she, and it seems, you know, she, well, if we say she couldn't kill him there,

[00:44:19] I guess she would have, if she could have, or she would have taken his lightsaber if,

[00:44:23] if he had allowed her. Um, but she seems to have her list in order for some reason. Like the next

[00:44:28] one has to be Kalmaka. Yeah. I wonder if she's going from most culpable to least culpable.

[00:44:34] Maybe that might make sense. I would buy that. That feels right. Or is it, no, I was going to

[00:44:40] say, is it alphabetical, but it's not because Torben came before Kalmaka. Sorry, I'm the doctor

[00:44:45] who in my head. I still don't like that reveal. Um, I noticed by the way, well, first of all,

[00:44:53] two things, one, Lee Jung Jae's reactions are just absolutely everything. I love his reactions when

[00:45:00] Osha was being awkward as a mole and he's like, oh God, oh God. But it's interesting that he held

[00:45:06] the Jedi back because after, as soon as Chimera says like, yeah, I made the poison or whatever

[00:45:10] there, um, Jackie's like, send them in. And so I was like, wait a minute. Uh, hoping to get more

[00:45:15] out of it. So it does. He, he gave that extra beat that put may and a little bit more danger

[00:45:22] or sorry, OSHA and a little bit more danger to hopefully get more info. Just noticing that.

[00:45:28] Yeah. I think I kind of agreed with him though. I think they could have gotten more out of that

[00:45:32] interaction. And I think Jackie, check it. And, uh, on your word were a little gung ho right

[00:45:38] there. They're both a little trigger happy your word because he's your word and Jackie, because

[00:45:43] he's a paddle one. Right. Right. Although Jackie, she was kind of an MVP in this scene. She was her.

[00:45:50] So your word wanted to be the one doing the confrontation of course, because he's got a

[00:45:54] hero complex. Right. Right. Right. I love it's the hair. It's really the hair. I mean, he's,

[00:45:59] you could see this guy playing like charming and Shrek, right? Like he's,

[00:46:04] he's just ready to go. He's just ready to ride in and save the princess on a dragon.

[00:46:09] Absolutely. People are calling it killmonger hair.

[00:46:12] Oh my God. That's so funny. That's so true though. But killmonger didn't have the force. So I think

[00:46:17] we're, we're settled on the gel aspect of his hair. Right. It's gel or it's, it's, it's hairspray.

[00:46:23] It's something, something you know, you can get on earth.

[00:46:28] Yeah. Well, yeah, I think that your word is, yeah, he's not,

[00:46:31] he cannot give any extra concentration to that. But yeah, I, I, one of the best pieces of comedy

[00:46:39] that we've had so far in the first two episodes is Jackie calling him out on things like your,

[00:46:43] put your shirt back on. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and we need that. I'm really glad that they have some of

[00:46:49] those moments of comedy because without that, it one, it doesn't feel like star Wars and two,

[00:46:54] it, it just gets so dense with this kind of dark plot line.

[00:46:58] Yeah. And I love that it was, it was Jackie's idea to send OSHA. She just like also calls

[00:47:04] your doubt again. Okay. What did he say? He was like, Oh, right. Cause he wanted to just

[00:47:09] like basically take chimera into custody immediately. And Jackie's like, Oh,

[00:47:13] or we skip that. And she just talks to him. Yeah. It's his, his first instinct is to whip

[00:47:21] out lightsaber all the time. Right? Absolutely. But he does get a, so you're at hoard. He did,

[00:47:29] he did get one of the most iconic lines in star Wars universe. I've got a bad feeling about this.

[00:47:35] Oh my God. That I would be okay. If we just let that go.

[00:47:40] I don't, I don't hate it, but that better be the only one for this show. Like, okay,

[00:47:44] you did this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just don't want, I'm, I understand why we do it. I understand it's,

[00:47:51] it's the member berries, but it'd be okay if we were just like, let's not do this line anymore.

[00:47:56] You know, all the star Wars, you're free, you're free writers. You don't have to put that line in

[00:48:00] here. You know, I just took a deep dive into the planet of the apes, everything. And there are

[00:48:07] certain lines like that, that come back again and again. And there was one comic series where they

[00:48:13] said, get your stinking hands off me. And every single issue I'm like, no, come on.

[00:48:20] Oh no. Lots of questions about Chimera, of course. So first of all, he is also a good source of

[00:48:30] comic relief. I love when he was like, uh, when they were asking him who is he as in her master.

[00:48:37] And he says, who's he? Uh, and he's like, oh, I thought he, and he points to Yord was with you.

[00:48:44] Oh man, that's funny. Uh, but yeah, so he's, but he's definitely playing dumb and elevating it to

[00:48:50] an art form. Uh, he's also says like, please don't do the memory wipe thing or whatever it is you

[00:48:55] guys do. You know, it's funny that in the good place he has to pretend he's smart while the

[00:49:01] character is dumb. And then this, he has to pretend he's dumb when the character is smart.

[00:49:06] He's a really good actor. Like he's really great at changing tones quickly.

[00:49:10] Yeah. That's yeah. He, cause he plays them all convincingly because he's charming. Uh,

[00:49:15] he's got that natural, right. It is by the way, I don't think we've mentioned on the podcast

[00:49:22] and that final scene where, with the confrontation between the sisters, uh, the blaster is set to

[00:49:28] stun. And I know that because stun shots are always circular in blue and star Wars. So you

[00:49:34] can tell them apart from lethal shots that which are more like pointy straight. So if you see

[00:49:41] blue circles, you know, that someone said the, to stun. So, I mean, obviously she was giving her

[00:49:47] sister a chance to get away. Right. I mean, she wanted her to get away. Yeah.

[00:49:51] Yeah. I don't, I think she poorly aimed on purpose. Right. Yeah. And I, and I think soul saw that

[00:49:59] and understood what happened. I think he's, he's disappointed, but he's not angry because

[00:50:04] he understands that's still her sister at the end of the day. Right. Yeah. Because I mean,

[00:50:10] she was kind of brought, I think so that she could try to talk to her sister, but

[00:50:15] I, she, it was interesting when she was on the freighter herself, OSHA and the other

[00:50:22] prisoners are like, Oh, she's like, I believe I have faith in the Jedi. And they're like, okay,

[00:50:26] we'll enjoy jail. And now when it comes to putting her sister in that place where her faith doesn't

[00:50:32] seem to be in the Jedi at this moment, she's like, she's wants to protect her sister rather than

[00:50:38] trust in the Jedi justice. Yeah. And you know, at first I was like, May is being so selfish.

[00:50:44] She's putting her sister in danger of, you know, making her sister a suspect because the Jedi know

[00:50:50] her. But then as you learn that she didn't even know that that OSHA was alive, you're like, Oh,

[00:50:54] okay. She was only risking herself in her head. Right. I have a feeling that I have a feeling that

[00:51:00] may is going to start to look less and less like the, the villain that she at first seems

[00:51:07] as this goes on. Yeah. Perhaps by the end, they'll flip the titles where it's, it's, uh,

[00:51:13] you know, referring to the opposite twin. Right. So I actually, I ranked the characters from the

[00:51:21] first two episodes on an order of how sus they are. Do you want to hear my rankings? Okay. Yeah.

[00:51:26] I'm in, I'm in. All right. So least sus is Saul and followed by Jackie and then Kelnaca, OSHA.

[00:51:35] And then I've may, but I'm ready to see her perspective. So this is like the first half

[00:51:39] of the list we're getting to Torben's in the middle. Um, Tossi Loa, I don't know, just maybe

[00:51:46] because of her race, she's too much of a rule follower. And then Indara, definitely something

[00:51:51] going on there. Yord, Vernestra, and then Chimera is obviously the most sus of them all.

[00:51:57] Hmm. I don't know. I might put, I might put Torben just, just less sus than Chimera.

[00:52:05] Okay. I mean, he did something. He did something. He did do something,

[00:52:10] but he feels guilty about it. Something. Right. He knows he did something. Yeah.

[00:52:14] I mean, dude, dude, didn't talk to anybody for 10 years. You know, if this is something that's

[00:52:19] known to be a repentance thing, is nobody like, what did this guy do that? He's been

[00:52:24] in this trance for 10 years. Yeah. Nobody's like questioning that. Hey, maybe we should look at

[00:52:30] his hollow deck, you know? I'm sure like the other Jedi, like Indara, or maybe even Vernestra stepped

[00:52:37] in and said whatever needed to be said, you know, or he's just so pious. He's just so pious, you

[00:52:44] know, something like that. I mean, Vernestra is, you know, obsessed with the image of the Jedi

[00:52:49] more than just us. Right. It's interesting though, to contrast though, if Kalnaka has also,

[00:52:56] and we'll talk about the final scene with Kalnaka in just a sec, but if Kalnaka has also taken a

[00:53:01] Barash vow, he's gone into the middle of the jungle where he's living, but isolated. Whereas

[00:53:10] Torben chose to do this meditation thing in the middle of a city, in a temple with other Jedi.

[00:53:17] So he is surrounded by people, but then still isolating himself and like shutting himself off

[00:53:24] from life. I love that he's just furniture. Like they just can have a conversation around him and

[00:53:28] they're like, Hey, what's up? You know, there's Torbi. You know, he's a fixture of the temple.

[00:53:34] But I guess he must hear what they're saying. Cause he heard me.

[00:53:39] I would be kind of creepy. Like he's listening in on everything. You probably forget at some point.

[00:53:44] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a weekend at Torben's.

[00:53:48] Yeah. Okay. So speaking of Kalnaka, he was my immediate favorite coming out of it. Although

[00:53:56] Sol may be overtaking, I really love all the characters in this show to be honest, but okay.

[00:54:02] Connecting again via comm link for Nestor tell Sol she's convening a small council and he's being

[00:54:08] summoned despite his protests that they don't have time. They know where May is going next to

[00:54:13] the jungle planet of Kofar to kill the other Jedi on her list, the Wookiee Kalnaka. Back at the

[00:54:19] pharmacy, May confronts Chimere for selling her out. He says he'll make it up to her by getting

[00:54:24] them both off the planet. He's found Kalnaka and they're headed to Kofar indeed. Meanwhile,

[00:54:30] in a jungle in Kofar, two Huttese speaking humans are lost. They spot the wreck of a ship,

[00:54:36] not realizing there's a Wookiee who doesn't want company inside. Kalnaka force pulls the

[00:54:41] blaster out of their hands, breaks it and the humans go running. So yeah, Kofar is very like,

[00:54:47] we've seen enough of Kashyyyk, the Wookiee planet. Let's make another planet that looks just like it.

[00:54:53] I'm kind of glad because you would think that, you know, a lot of species settled different

[00:54:58] planets and we've never seen another world with the Wookiees. And you know, we've seen enough of

[00:55:03] Kashyyyk home life with the Star Wars Christmas special, Star Wars holiday special that we did,

[00:55:09] which still is one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my entire life.

[00:55:14] But yeah, I really loved seeing this. I loved how he just, he didn't attack them. He just took their

[00:55:19] gun, broke it in half and then a word with them. I think that's fair. That's a fair response.

[00:55:24] Yeah. Someone called it getting off my lawn energy. Can't remember who said that,

[00:55:28] but I keep thinking of that. I mean, it's definitely, it's not like the kind of behavior

[00:55:33] you expect from a Jedi, but from a Wookiee, it's, you know, he's they're lucky he didn't

[00:55:38] rip their arms off. Right. Right. They are known to do that, aren't they?

[00:55:42] Yeah. And the sign, by the way, it was in Sriwook with their language and it just said,

[00:55:47] basically get off my lawn, like go away, leave me alone. But I do wonder, so because it's written

[00:55:53] in Sriwook, I'm wondering if this is in the Wookiee system somewhere nearby. There's more

[00:55:59] Wookiees on this planet. Yeah. That would be cool. Do you know what his lightsaber looks like yet?

[00:56:06] Oh, I said-

[00:56:06] Is it in the trailers or anything?

[00:56:08] Yeah. No, I said in the preview episode, it's either blue or green, but I can't remember which

[00:56:11] at the moment. I think green. I don't know. Oh no, I mean the hilt.

[00:56:14] Oh, the hilt. Oh.

[00:56:15] Because I know that there's a thing in the Clone Wars about how Wookiees often have wooden hilts.

[00:56:20] Oh, right. Yeah. Good point. I did not pay attention to that, to be honest, but I think

[00:56:25] there's a picture online.

[00:56:27] Okay. I can't wait to see it in the show. I'm going to wait until I see it in the show.

[00:56:31] Okay.

[00:56:31] And I'm looking forward to it because I've always wanted to see a live action version of that.

[00:56:35] Right. Right. Yeah. Because we see there's a famous one from earlier in the High Republic books,

[00:56:42] Biriyaga, and people are like, why isn't Biriyaga showing up? What does that mean about Biriyaga?

[00:56:46] Because again, the books are not done yet. So I think they're not going to, Biriyaga could very

[00:56:51] well just be out there somewhere, but they're not going to tell us anything about him in this show

[00:56:56] because the books aren't done yet.

[00:56:57] He's busy.

[00:56:58] Yeah.

[00:56:59] Guy's busy. How long do Wookiees live?

[00:57:02] A very long time.

[00:57:04] Okay.

[00:57:05] Yeah. So Chewbacca's already alive. He's about 70 at this point. So he's out there somewhere.

[00:57:10] Oh wow.

[00:57:12] Wow.

[00:57:13] But it's interesting because their aging rights happen at age 12, which is even younger than for

[00:57:21] most humans.

[00:57:24] I wonder when Chewbacca's going to have his kids and start watching Four-Armed Julia Child.

[00:57:32] Yeah. The Christmas special.

[00:57:33] I love, I just love it. I will reference it anytime I can.

[00:57:38] No, this is definitely, we're going to be covering it on the podcast.

[00:57:42] Oh good.

[00:57:44] If you want to be a guest, I would love that.

[00:57:46] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I also, I want to come on The Clone Wars at some point

[00:57:50] if you don't mind.

[00:57:51] Yes. No, of course. Yeah. Tell me when. Can you do a Wookiee impression?

[00:57:57] Not well.

[00:57:59] Actually, that's pretty good.

[00:58:00] Oh, okay. All right.

[00:58:01] I was, oh wait, see, I can't do it. Nope.

[00:58:04] I believe you.

[00:58:05] I did it better in earlier episodes, but I'm trying to collect Wookiee impressions from

[00:58:10] listeners. So if anyone can do a good one, send it to swtimelinepodcast at gmail.com.

[00:58:16] I'm going to put together a compilation.

[00:58:17] Did you ever see that Reddit post? I'm sure it was fake, but it was like somebody put up,

[00:58:22] somebody had a contentious divorce and they put up signs like,

[00:58:25] I really want Wookiee impressions and they put their ex-partner's number.

[00:58:28] So they were just getting calls all the time.

[00:58:33] I would kind of have to laugh, I think. Although I guess it would get annoying.

[00:58:37] I mean, you'd have to change your number, but that's all right.

[00:58:39] Right. Yeah. Well, so I love, by the way, the actor who's playing Kalnokka is a Finnish actor

[00:58:46] named Joonas Suantomo and he also played Chewie in the newer movies.

[00:58:52] Yeah. Yeah. I saw that. He was a basketball player, right?

[00:58:55] Yeah. A very tall guy.

[00:58:56] Yeah. I was like, what was it? 6'11 or something like that? Crazy.

[00:59:02] Yeah. I mean, I didn't know his height, but you see him next to the other actors and he

[00:59:07] dwarfs over even over the ones who I thought were tall. Of course, I'm myself in American terms,

[00:59:13] I'm five foot two, so everyone dwarfs over me.

[00:59:16] Fair enough. My wife is also the same height, so I know that height well.

[00:59:20] Yeah. But I think there might be more, we might get some more Wookiee crossovers

[00:59:29] and a season two, so all the more reason to hope for a season two.

[00:59:34] There's also hope of maybe some Hutts showing up because we had the reference to the party moon

[00:59:41] and now we have people speaking Huttese, which is the language of the Nalhatta system.

[00:59:47] So maybe we'll go to Narshadah, the party moon ourselves in this show, or maybe we will see

[00:59:55] a Hutt. Jabba is alive. He's almost 500 at this point. He was born in 600 BBY.

[01:00:02] I've never been a big Hutt fan, I'm going to be honest with you.

[01:00:05] I'm not a big Hutt guy. Every time they show up, I'm like, eh.

[01:00:09] All right. Yeah. I am and I know Bob is, Bob really wants to see some Hutts.

[01:00:15] I just find it there, I want to know more about their crime family basically. I want to know more

[01:00:22] about their culture and their species. I'm intrigued.

[01:00:25] Now give me the pirates. I love the space pirates.

[01:00:28] Yeah. We should be getting some pirates sooner or later because this is prime pirate time.

[01:00:34] The high seas of space.

[01:00:36] Exactly. Oh, by the way, also for Kelnaka fans, Marvel Comics just announced this week that they're

[01:00:44] going to publish a one-shot comic about him on September 4th, 2024, which is going to be set

[01:00:51] right before this. It's going to bridge the gap between the High Republic books and this show.

[01:00:56] Basically. Definitely going to talk about that after it comes out.

[01:01:02] Yeah, definitely. I'm definitely in on the High Republic now. I think the show really excited me

[01:01:06] more about it. I did actually listen to some of the Light of the Jedi audio book last night,

[01:01:13] because I couldn't keep my eyes open. I was so tired last night, but I wanted to finish

[01:01:17] Convergence and I couldn't do that. So I figured I had the Light of the Jedi audio book already.

[01:01:21] I'll go back to that and I'll try to do it. I was like, okay, this is better now that I have a

[01:01:25] grasp on this era. Thanks to the Star Wars canon timeline bug, I guess.

[01:01:30] Oh, yeah. This show, this is also why I think that a lot more people are going to go back and read

[01:01:36] the books after this, because this show is going to make them curious. Like, oh, well, what is

[01:01:40] different and what happened? Yeah. It's just really hard to, especially because it's not like

[01:01:48] it's decayed versions of the original trilogy, right? The original trilogy is the decayed version.

[01:01:53] So it's hard to go back to imagining not a declined version, but an improved version

[01:02:02] in the past. It's a really hard thing to conceptualize if you don't have it visually.

[01:02:06] Right. Yeah. And Leslie Hedlund did say that she did expressly do that. She was like,

[01:02:13] okay, well, we look at the original trilogy where things stand. We look at the prequel trilogy where

[01:02:20] things stood then. How do we just draw this line back further in terms of the design of things,

[01:02:25] in terms of the state of the universe? You carry the four and add the flux capacitor.

[01:02:32] Insert the GIF with the woman doing calculations in the air. Yeah.

[01:02:38] Oh, boy.

[01:02:39] All right. Shall we get into a little trailer-based speculation?

[01:02:43] Sure. I didn't watch it, but sure.

[01:02:45] No. Yeah. There's just a couple of things from the trailers that give us hints of what's to come.

[01:02:50] Anyone who doesn't want to hear this, I will put a timestamp in the notes about when the section

[01:02:55] is over and then we'll get back and we'll get into our community feedback and other things.

[01:02:59] But just one thing from the trailer that we know is that this spiral Mae has on her head

[01:03:07] is there's another character who's going to be played by Jodie Turner-Smith called Mother Anasea,

[01:03:13] who has also a spiral like that on her head, but then in the middle.

[01:03:17] I like it.

[01:03:19] And Anasea is Osha's last name.

[01:03:22] Oh, really?

[01:03:23] Mm-hmm.

[01:03:25] So they said they, I think they said they had two mothers, but, or they said they had mothers,

[01:03:30] plural. So maybe this is one of their literal mothers, or maybe she's a mother because it

[01:03:37] looks like she's like head witch of her sect.

[01:03:40] Right. Like a cult leader kind of thing.

[01:03:43] Mm-hmm. And if we talked about Padawan John's theory about the spirals being connected to the

[01:03:49] Nihil with the storm terminology, if that is the case, then this would be in the center of her

[01:03:55] forehead and she would be the eye, like a third eye.

[01:03:59] I like it.

[01:04:01] I'm very, very much looking forward to meeting her, but we might meet her in a flashback because

[01:04:05] we do know we're going to get flashbacks. So people who are upset about losing Carrie-Anne

[01:04:10] Moss, fear not, she will be back in flashback form with Saul and Kelnaca and Torben. So we're

[01:04:17] seeing young Torben because those who know the actor knows that he's actually quite young.

[01:04:22] So the fact that they hired a young actor and had him in this first scene play old,

[01:04:27] makes me think that they are, he's mostly going to be seen as a younger version.

[01:04:33] Right. I wonder if we're going to get whole episodes in the past.

[01:04:36] Right. Right. Exactly. That's what I'm wondering too. Maybe the next episode is just all flashback.

[01:04:43] I like that.

[01:04:44] One other thing I noticed is that Indara, when she was fighting May in the opening scene of

[01:04:49] episode one, she had two dots next to her eye, but in the flashback episode, she only has one

[01:04:54] black dot next to her eyes. So I don't know what that means, but just noticing it's there and

[01:05:00] visible.

[01:05:02] That's showing the passage of how many years or something? I don't know.

[01:05:06] Or maybe it's a marker, like for Nestra has the tattoos on her head because of Mary Allen's mark

[01:05:13] things that way. Maybe this is her version of that marking something.

[01:05:17] Well, when it's one dot, she's in the matrix and when it's two dots, she's in reality.

[01:05:21] Right.

[01:05:23] That's how she knows. It's like an inception with the top spinning.

[01:05:29] Okay. So we saw in the first episode, baby May, after that poem they recite together,

[01:05:35] her eyes turn black. Torben's eyes do the same thing in the trailer and then he collapsed.

[01:05:41] So does that say whatever is happening to Torben was happening to May?

[01:05:50] There's a lot of questions about this. Are Osha and May a forced dyad? And if so,

[01:05:56] why does it seem like Osha is the only one who is getting these visions? Of course, we don't know.

[01:06:02] Maybe May is, although May seemed convinced Osha was dead or maybe there's somebody controlling

[01:06:08] her somehow.

[01:06:10] Yeah. If there's somebody controlling her, then maybe they would think that it would be

[01:06:14] beneficial to have Osha fear the return of her sister or something like that and not beneficial

[01:06:21] to let May know that her sister was alive because that would force her to confront her past.

[01:06:27] Right. Right. Yeah. And I just wanted to point out that there were scenes of people like,

[01:06:33] oh, Jackie's fighting with May in the trailer. These two characters are going to get along.

[01:06:38] Yeah. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'll stop doing it eventually.

[01:06:41] But yeah, just that is May. It's not Osha. So there's also

[01:06:45] there are people online who are shipping Jackie and Osha. Well, we'll see.

[01:06:50] Why?

[01:06:51] I mean, romance is okay.

[01:06:53] Jackie is too young for Osha.

[01:06:56] Aren't they both young?

[01:06:58] I don't know.

[01:06:59] I would rather they get along than be enemies. They can be besties or I don't mind a little

[01:07:07] romance in Star Wars, but I don't know if Disney will dare to go there.

[01:07:12] Well, that and also it's their Jedi, right? Well, I know Osha isn't and May isn't, but

[01:07:20] Jackie is a Padawan. She's supposed to have the whole no attachments deal.

[01:07:25] Right.

[01:07:25] Unless you blow a coon. Oh, man.

[01:07:28] Wouldn't it be funny if Jackie and her master had an unhealthy quote unquote attachment to the

[01:07:34] same person?

[01:07:36] Ooh. All right. All right. That's interesting.

[01:07:42] So the big confrontation in the woods in the trailer, by the way, I'm wondering if that is in

[01:07:48] flashbacks. So there's a scene where all these different colored lightsabers light up and there's

[01:07:53] a red lightsaber spiraling through the darkness. So I'm wondering if that's in flashback just

[01:07:58] because Osha's flashbacks that we saw in the first episode were set in the woods.

[01:08:05] Right. Yeah, I could see that. I can see that. And it's interesting because when she first had

[01:08:11] that flashback, I remember she said, Brenda. And I thought she was talking about a person.

[01:08:17] Right.

[01:08:17] And then later, of course, we learned that that's the name of the planet. So they did a good job of

[01:08:21] Martin three step revealing it.

[01:08:23] Yeah. So I'm hoping maybe episode three will be a full flashback episode,

[01:08:29] but I'm signed up for it.

[01:08:31] I feel like we're not ready for it yet.

[01:08:32] Yeah. You think?

[01:08:33] I think this is an episode five or six deal.

[01:08:36] Right. Well, you know, I guess there has to be the next episode does have to be about

[01:08:40] her trying to kill come Kalnocka and I feel like she's going to succeed. And that hurts my heart.

[01:08:45] Yeah. Kelnock is not long for this life.

[01:08:49] Right. Oh, yeah. The Wookiee. Oh, see, that was a good one.

[01:08:55] I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

[01:08:58] All right. Shall we see what the community thought about these first two episodes?

[01:09:03] Absolutely.

[01:09:04] So if anyone else wants to share their thoughts about future episodes,

[01:09:08] then please send in your feedback to we have two emails you can send to we have the SW timeline

[01:09:14] podcast at gmail.com and we also have Star Wars at the lorehounds.com, whichever you send it to,

[01:09:20] it will get in our episode notes. We do record the day after the episode airs,

[01:09:27] or which is sorry. The episode airs on Wednesday for most of the world. The

[01:09:30] episode airs on Wednesday for me. So when I talk about the day, the episode airs, that's what I

[01:09:35] mean. In the US, we're going to record Thursday morning. It'll come out after that. Okay. All

[01:09:41] right. Okay, so first feedback is from David, our fellow lorehound.

[01:09:49] Hey, David.

[01:09:52] He says, Hey, yo, quick feedback. Glad you guys are loving the show. And it seems like

[01:09:56] the community is excited about this new title. Hopefully I'll jump in on some later episodes.

[01:10:01] But for now, I just wanted to drop a quick note about the martial arts and the attack me with all

[01:10:06] your strength line. As a kid who grew up watching a lot of Kung Fu on late night TV, that line was

[01:10:12] right out of many of those movies. I'm not an expert. But as I understand at the time in China's

[01:10:18] real and mythologized history, it was a thing for up and coming fighters to challenge more experienced

[01:10:23] masters. There was a strong desire for adherence of one style to want to test their styles against

[01:10:29] other styles. These engagements had their own rules of form and etiquette, not unlike how duels

[01:10:35] would have been fought at various times in European or Japanese history. Regardless of the

[01:10:39] historicity, that line really was a tone setter for me and I'm sure anyone else who watched a lot

[01:10:45] of the same kind of TV back in that era. So no, thank you, David. Yeah, like I said, not so much

[01:10:53] insight on the fighting side. So really appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, I used to watch a lot of Kung

[01:10:58] Fu movies with my grandpa because he was so into them. And it did feel right out of that. I totally

[01:11:04] agree with that. But the most interesting thing to me about that line is how not Sith like it felt.

[01:11:13] Right. This coming right out into the open and declaring that they want to fight,

[01:11:17] that's not the Sith at all. No, you have a point. There's something ritualized about it.

[01:11:25] Yeah, we need Marilyn to think about the ritual side of it.

[01:11:28] Agreed. Well, she wrote in later, so that's okay. Right, she did write in later. Yeah.

[01:11:33] So also we heard from Jean, co-host on the Lorehounds Network and my co-host for the

[01:11:38] MC Universe podcast episodes, which we're planning one for late June, by the way.

[01:11:43] But he just wanted us to make sure that we said,

[01:11:46] do not forget Yord, don't trust Yord until further notice.

[01:11:52] I'm with you, Jean. I said Jean. Oh man, I'm saying my own name.

[01:11:56] I'm with you, Jean. No, we are a Yord suspicious podcast,

[01:12:03] although I love the Yord horde love. I hope that I'm wrong about Yord. I hope I'm wrong. I hope

[01:12:09] that he's just like a rule follower and not something that I send a star. Yeah, I do think

[01:12:14] it's fun to have people who are, because that's a character type that we see in The Wheel of Time

[01:12:17] too is like somebody who's really adhered to the rules. They're not necessarily bad. I mean,

[01:12:21] you brought up Galad, but I would say even someone where they do something,

[01:12:28] they do things that end up being bad, but because they're rule followers, not because they're evil.

[01:12:34] You brought up Galad, but I think there's other characters who will follow the rules to a fault,

[01:12:39] even more to a fault than Galad. Right, exactly. Yeah. Some people may

[01:12:46] make themselves look sinister just by trying too hard. Yep. So we also got a voicemail from

[01:12:55] Dork of the Ninjas or Michael, as you prefer to call him. Shall we take a listen? Yeah, let's do

[01:13:02] it. Hey guys, just want to get my thoughts on the first two episodes of the Acolyte. So far,

[01:13:06] I'm enjoying the series overall. I think the mystery is intriguing, but I think that this

[01:13:11] series is probably going to be the biggest indictment of the Jedi order. So we've seen

[01:13:16] entirety of Star Wars so far. Of course, we've already gotten some stuff like that in prequels

[01:13:20] and a little bit in the sequel series, but this one, this series feels like the biggest,

[01:13:28] even when the Clone Wars showing the failings of the Jedi, showing that they're much more

[01:13:33] involved with politics than they should be. They're much more worried about keeping

[01:13:36] themselves in power than they should be. They're not worried about protecting people

[01:13:41] like they should. They're not worried about making sure the force is in balance. They're

[01:13:46] more worried about, oh, we have to be in charge or the force won't be in balance.

[01:13:51] It feels like there was a cover up that happened on that planet that those four Jedi that Mae is

[01:13:56] targeting were involved in somehow, whether by incompetence or a situation of a cover up entirely.

[01:14:03] It feels that even though she didn't fit, it feels like she wasn't a perfect fit. So

[01:14:09] she felt forced out. And I think that because of these failings, we're going to see

[01:14:16] Mae and Osha either coming to an understanding of each other or not.

[01:14:22] I don't think this series is going to end with the Jedi coming out looking like the good guys

[01:14:26] in any way, shape or form, maybe to a small degree, but the way the series is playing right

[01:14:30] now, I do not feel like that. You already feels like the biggest crony of, it feels like the worst

[01:14:35] kind of cop. The cop who's very much like, we're the guys in charge, we're the ones who are right.

[01:14:41] Feels like a cop who pulls his gun on every occasion he can. How many times have you seen

[01:14:46] him go for his lightsaber before? Anything else before? Any type of thing goes on. We've seen him

[01:14:51] grab his lightsabers at least four different times when no violence was called for. Nobody was giving

[01:14:57] him any true resistance. But he had that thing brandished like a cop who had a hair trigger

[01:15:04] who isn't disciplined enough. And I feel like this is just probably the best indictment of

[01:15:10] just showing these are the problems with the Jedi and these are kind of parallels to real life.

[01:15:16] Just my thoughts on the matter. Look forward to hearing your guys' coverage.

[01:15:21] Yeah, it's interesting that he brings up both Yord and also the fact that the Jedi Order

[01:15:29] has a history of pushing people out who don't achieve their, fit in their perfect box in a way.

[01:15:37] Because Yord is obviously trying-

[01:15:38] This is what a Jedi is.

[01:15:40] Right. Yord is trying so hard to fit in that box.

[01:15:43] Yeah. That's why his hair is so flattened to the side so that he can fit in the small box

[01:15:49] that they have him in.

[01:15:51] So he looks jaunty, just very calculatedly jaunty.

[01:15:58] That's why he's so fit. He's got to fit into the box.

[01:16:02] Yeah, exactly. So Xenos, at Xenos H on Twitter said,

[01:16:08] I guess the nitpick I have for the show is really more of a Disney criticism,

[01:16:12] which is their weird obsession with shorter run times. It hurts the world building in my

[01:16:16] humble opinion, wise and or the exception. What do you think about the runtime so far?

[01:16:21] I've been good with the runtime. I think that these were appropriate length episodes.

[01:16:26] I don't know about you.

[01:16:29] I mean, the second one, I was just disappointed that it was over because I want more,

[01:16:32] but I don't feel like I lost anything in that. I don't feel like, oh,

[01:16:37] it didn't tell me enough or something. It's just, I'm just being greedy. I want more.

[01:16:42] Yeah. And I don't know what the rest of the runtimes are going to be, but so far,

[01:16:45] it felt like the episodes were as long as they needed to be to tell the discreet story they

[01:16:51] were trying to tell. I don't think that I'm hoping that it's true that they are just going

[01:16:57] as long as they think they need to go each episode. I think stranger things, you know,

[01:17:01] I think they went too far at some points, but I think they did do a really good thing of breaking

[01:17:05] the mold of these things have to be the same length every time. Right. Because that's the

[01:17:10] advantage of streaming. And then The Last of Us ended up doing that too. Yeah. So,

[01:17:14] but even The Last of Us is on HBO too. So that was going on. I know they don't need to do ads

[01:17:19] with that with cable, but it was like when it's on TV. But yeah, I mean, The Last of Us was,

[01:17:26] you know, 45 minutes, one episode, 90 minutes, another episode. It's it's I think this is a good

[01:17:31] trend that we're seeing is make the episode as long as you think it needs to go. Right.

[01:17:37] Do you want to take the last two feedbacks? Sure. Davie Mack writes in thoroughly enjoyed this

[01:17:44] episode one podcast love to that you're dropping in snippets of headland has said leading up to

[01:17:51] the show about politics and the bureaucracy of it all, which are things I like to dig into.

[01:17:57] I'm really glad that she is considering those things make sense, though, given her previous

[01:18:01] work. I didn't listen to the preview cast just because I like going in knowing I like

[01:18:06] knowing as little as possible. So it was nice to get those nuggets. Also, reprison ships.

[01:18:14] There's also one that was mostly droid operated by the New Republic in Mando season one. There

[01:18:21] was just one operative on board that ship, but the rest of the ship is run by droids.

[01:18:25] So there is precedent in Star Wars. Oh, and one last thing. When the show mentioned that

[01:18:31] the parasite is called a debug, I immediately thought of the Coen Brothers film A Serious Man,

[01:18:37] which features a debug in the opening scene. I'm not Jewish, so I don't have a deep knowledge

[01:18:43] on the subject, but I believe a debug in Jewish folklore is malicious spirit.

[01:18:48] I don't think headland herself is Jewish, but there was a theme around Jewish history and

[01:18:54] mythology in Russian doll. She had to have gotten the name for this parasitic creature

[01:18:58] from Jewish mythology. Right. See, I don't know about that. Now I got to look this up.

[01:19:02] I think that is. Yeah, once he said that, the name when it was said in the thing,

[01:19:08] it did sound familiar to me, but that's not an area of folklore I especially know much about.

[01:19:12] So debug is a wandering spirit of a deceased person who has been unable to enter purgatory

[01:19:18] or paradise. Okay. Okay. So maybe because it's a purgatory thing, that's why it's like this parasite

[01:19:25] that keeps you. Keeps you. And it's possessing, right? It's a possessing spirit. Interesting.

[01:19:32] Interesting. I didn't know about all this. That's interesting.

[01:19:35] And a good call out on the prison ship in Mando. I mean, I guess, yeah, they did have that one

[01:19:40] operative probably. I like to think it's because of this incident. Yeah. It's like when the AI

[01:19:46] starts to take over too many jobs here where they're like, all right, we need one human on

[01:19:50] each assembly line so that things don't get out of hand. Right. Or in beacon 23, one person in

[01:19:55] every beacon. So yeah, I also just wanted to say that for the accolade preview episode, I did say

[01:20:05] I saved a couple of things at the end for the end of that episode that I thought were bordering on

[01:20:11] spoiler-ish type of speculation. And those all ended up being revealed already. So basically about

[01:20:17] the twins, about Indara dying right away and about the Sith code inherent in what Chimera was

[01:20:26] saying. Okay. Yeah. So there's now nothing that can spoil you in that, which I like. I'm excited

[01:20:33] about that because that means that they're going to surprise me. It's not obvious. It's not.

[01:20:38] Right. Yeah. It's cool when they do the marketing and they reveal some things if you want to know,

[01:20:43] they give you a taste of it, but it's all done in the first couple episodes. And that's what

[01:20:47] makes us a cool mystery is that there's so many more layers to it. Absolutely. So our favorite

[01:20:54] Tolkien scholar, Marilyn Arpukula wrote in two emails. So I guess I'll pause after the first one.

[01:20:59] No, actually I put them both together in this. Oh, I know. But I know where the second one started

[01:21:03] because I read it. Hello, John and Alicia. She's Marilyn. Hello, John and Alicia.

[01:21:13] Interesting new series. They seem to be pitching it somewhat closer to the younger Star Wars fans,

[01:21:17] given the age of some of the major characters and the general themes of family,

[01:21:21] twins, masters and coming of age questions. I like what I've seen so far and I really like Master

[01:21:27] Soul. My first reaction is I'm very sorry to lose Indira Indara in the bar fight.

[01:21:37] I liked her a lot. I hope we see more of her in flashbacks or as a force ghost.

[01:21:42] And how do you figure, how do they figure that taking out a Jedi with a throwing knife is

[01:21:46] killing them without a weapon? Seems pretty weapon-like to me. Well, I guess that was

[01:21:50] answered too in episode two. Right. It is a weapon. It doesn't count. Yeah, it didn't count.

[01:21:54] She didn't get credit for that. It was partial credit on the aside. Yeah. Poison is also a

[01:21:58] weapon so it doesn't count either. Right. Getting someone to poison themselves reminds

[01:22:03] me of the first episode of the Benedict Cumberbatch Sherlock series, which plot device,

[01:22:09] it was inspired by other shows that I'm not remembering at the moment. May's Instant

[01:22:14] Sandstorm reminds me of a fantasy series in which the heir to the throne is receiving training on

[01:22:19] evading assassins and the number one principle that is stated again and again is anything be

[01:22:24] a weapon. Yeah. And I do know that Sherlock episode. I don't know if you watched Sherlock.

[01:22:30] I watched the first two seasons, I think. Yeah, me too. Me too. Those were the good ones.

[01:22:38] I was also sorry that I had been spoiled about the whole twin thing. I would have liked that

[01:22:43] little bit of uncertainty in the first few minutes to try and sort out what was going on by myself.

[01:22:47] Oh well, no real biggie, I suppose. May's first encounter with Master Torben reminds me of the

[01:22:54] story of a Buddhist monk sitting in meditation when a soldier burst into his room brandishing

[01:22:59] his gun. The monk continues to meditate until the soldier screams at him, don't you know that

[01:23:03] I can kill you? The monk slowly raises his head and replies, don't you know I can let you?

[01:23:09] According to the story, the soldier bows to the monk and goes away and the monk continues to

[01:23:13] meditate. I found myself wondering as they were all running around a planet in the middle of a

[01:23:18] snowstorm if Jedi and their former Padawans have instant weather protection. It certainly was lousy

[01:23:25] weather to be out in for more than five minutes. Does anyone else think that May's supplier might

[01:23:31] also be her unknown master? Yes, we do. Yord won the first bad feeling about this prize.

[01:23:39] Alas, it seems as though they're going to use a picture of the Jedi Council as being stuck in some

[01:23:45] sort of groupthink mentality, choosing the way of the meeting or the way of quick follow-up while

[01:23:51] the clues are still available. I gather that this is an explanation derived from the books or other

[01:23:57] sources, but it seems somewhat unimaginative to me somehow. I don't know, bureaucracy being

[01:24:04] the death of this system is definitely a very Star Wars thing. Right, this is how freedom ends

[01:24:11] to thunderous applause. That's a good line. I know people are like, oh it's too on the nose. I'm like

[01:24:17] everything in Star Wars is too on the nose, get over it. Right, no that's a good line, that's one

[01:24:21] of the classics. Yeah, yeah and poor Natalie Portman. Did you see the, um, now poor Natalie

[01:24:28] Portman because fans are garbage is what I'm saying, right? But did you see the SNL bit from

[01:24:34] when they were doing the prequels and they had somebody, I forgot who it was, but one of the

[01:24:40] cast members in the audience pretending to be like a crazy Star Wars fan asking her a question about

[01:24:46] why Naboo couldn't do something and she's like well you know just because I'm in the movie doesn't

[01:24:51] mean I know everything, but the trade federation and she just does this like really good like

[01:24:56] lore-based answer. Yeah, and it was very funny. It was a good opening bit. She's a super smart

[01:25:03] cookie. I did feel bad for her, like I even knew someone that I knew was, she was, so Natalie

[01:25:09] Portman, she went to Princeton around the same time I was in college and our teams played each

[01:25:14] other in basketball and so she came to my campus in Philadelphia and one of the girls there was

[01:25:22] very drunk and just started the entire time harassing her Queen Amidala, Queen Amidala. I'm

[01:25:29] like oh my god leave this poor woman alone she's just trying to be a college student. Right, right,

[01:25:36] yeah that's a shame. She deserves to have a normal life too. Right, anyway. All right, Marilyn had a

[01:25:43] second email. She said something that I had intended to ask on the timeline podcast and now

[01:25:48] we'll ask here on this one. Since you raised it in the first episode breakdown, how are witches

[01:25:53] defined in the Star Wars universe? Are they the only magic users and how is that different from

[01:25:59] force users? Are they only witches if they are women? Are they only witches if they originated

[01:26:04] on Dathomir? Is there any content in the definition of witches that might be viewed as spiritual or

[01:26:10] religious? Any clarification, explanation and or discussion would be most appreciated.

[01:26:15] Looking forward to hearing what you folks have to say. All the best, Marilyn. Alicia, I'm gonna

[01:26:20] kick that witch question to you because you're the one obsessed with the witches. Right, so okay, so

[01:26:26] witches as we know them so far, first of all the magic is just the force. That's the only real

[01:26:31] quote-unquote magic in this universe. They just use the force in a way that appears like magic to

[01:26:39] from our viewpoint from our own universe. The way we see other quote-unquote witch characters,

[01:26:45] but they do call them witches sometimes. You often see it being used as a derogatory term

[01:26:51] in universe like we saw in Ahsoka people calling them oh witches, but they would call themselves

[01:26:56] night sisters and indeed up to this point all witches that we know of in Star Wars lore have

[01:27:04] come from the planet of Dathomir, but of course on Dathomir there are these different sects.

[01:27:08] There are most famously the night sisters, but we also recently and stuff that takes place later in

[01:27:15] the timeline met the Mountain Clan which are light side users. And now we have whatever this new sect

[01:27:22] is that's going to be in this show, but we know they seem to originate from the planet of Brendok

[01:27:29] which is a new planet. It's not Dathomir so I have as many questions as everybody else about

[01:27:36] what that's going to mean. I'm very excited about it. Yeah, cool. Witch lore abound.

[01:27:44] Right and as far as the spiritual and religious side I would say that yes they all have their own

[01:27:50] sort of religion, their own spiritual practice. Definitely something tying their culture together

[01:27:55] and based around ritual and handing down certain practices. Nice, cool. I'm excited for more.

[01:28:05] Yes, me too. Me too. Yeah, so we'll be back then next week in this feed with our episode

[01:28:11] three breakdown and this time we're going to do it, we're going to drop it on the Supercast and

[01:28:16] Patreon feeds one day earlier so that will be dropped there on Thursday and then on Friday

[01:28:22] it will be on the public feed. Now as far as what else is going on in the Star Wars canon timeline

[01:28:27] podcast obviously these weekly releases are going to be somewhere in the middle there. Mailbag

[01:28:33] episodes for the previous eras so please do send in your feedback about you know Dawn of Jedi,

[01:28:38] Old Republic, High Republic up to this point if you have that as well and there's going to be

[01:28:45] at least a couple bonus episodes between Jon and I about how events in the show connect with things

[01:28:51] from previous shows and movies later in the timeline. So I've already started my notes

[01:28:55] Jon I don't know if you have things you want to add to that list as well.

[01:29:01] I'm excited. Yeah, yeah I'm excited too there's a lot to say and probably right after the

[01:29:07] Acolyte is done then we're going to do in the canon timeline podcast feed a Visions episode

[01:29:13] covering Sith of the Old Republic legends and yeah look in the canon timeline podcast

[01:29:20] episode notes for this and you'll see which Visions episodes will be included in that.

[01:29:25] A lot of cool stuff coming. Yeah I'll throw it over to you Jon you want to

[01:29:29] talk about what's going on in the lore house? Yeah we've been so busy lately that I've stopped

[01:29:34] doing things ahead I've just been doing the week that we're currently in. Yeah that makes sense.

[01:29:38] So this week on the main feed we've got House of the Dragon season one episode nine and ten

[01:29:44] The Green Council and the Black Queen that's our rewatch coverage we have Doctor Who season

[01:29:51] one episode six Dodd and Bubble that's you and me Alicia really good episode.

[01:29:56] The Acolyte obviously you're here you did an episode on

[01:30:00] Planet of the Apes parentheses Kingdom of the... Right so half of it is talking about

[01:30:06] the original movies and then half of it talking about the new movie.

[01:30:13] And David did a podcast on Furiosa with Aaron from Radioactive Ramblings

[01:30:18] he also did randomly a Patreon subscriber exclusive podcast solo covering the new

[01:30:28] trailer for the new Alien movie so he's just going crazy over there he's just doing everything.

[01:30:35] On Rings and Rituals next week they're going to have chapter seven The Eye

[01:30:38] so the second to last episode of season one of the Rings of Power.

[01:30:43] On the Star Wars Canon Time Blind podcast you already did that on Radioactive Ramblings

[01:30:48] they had Fallout lore episode three God Bless the Enclave I have no idea what that means

[01:30:54] but if you like Fallout you're going to like that. Properly Howard did an episode...

[01:30:59] Backstory.

[01:31:01] Okay yeah yeah. Properly Howard movie review they did Axel F Anticipation and listener feedback

[01:31:08] they read a bunch of reviews and emails and stuff it was a lot of fun that podcast

[01:31:12] and we'll shift to you did you you did a new episode on Beacon 23 this week didn't you?

[01:31:17] Yes it dropped on over the at the end of the weekend it was the wrap up for season two and

[01:31:24] then coming up I have on Monday I'm going to be interviewing the showrunner co-showrunner

[01:31:29] of the second season Glamazara so watch out for that episode to hit Beacon 23 soon

[01:31:34] and the shift book breakdown is continuing there's two more parts that will come out this month.

[01:31:41] Very cool all right well that's the programming notes shall we thank

[01:31:45] the lore masters for the lore hounds Patreon and Supercast?

[01:31:50] Yes absolutely so Supercast and Patreon members they get early ad free access they get some extra

[01:31:59] episodes like you know David dropping the alien trailer breakdown and our you know our second

[01:32:06] breakfast where we talk about what else we're doing and watching in our lives and also extra

[01:32:12] movie breakdowns all that fun stuff so we also have we have to thank people who have been discord

[01:32:20] server boosters which help us make the discord run better help us be able to do more technical

[01:32:26] things with it to help us be able to keep it cleaner and going smoothly and those discord

[01:32:32] server boosters are Narls, Aaron K, Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Dove71, CaptainJinji56,

[01:32:40] Athena, Angelea thank you very much do you want to shout out the lore masters John?

[01:32:45] Sure I'm very practiced at this list Samartian, Michael G, Michelle E, David W, Brian P, Nick W,

[01:32:54] Peter OH, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, Dove71, Brian8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C,

[01:33:03] Eric F, Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Mewa, Andra B, Kwong U, DeadEyeJediBob, Nathan T, Alex V,

[01:33:11] Aaron T, Subzero, Aaron K, Dally V, Mothership61, Narls, Kathy W, and Adrian.

[01:33:21] Thank you all for all your service to the lorehounds community and yeah it's gonna be a

[01:33:27] good season. All right I can't wait to talk about episode three with you until then for

[01:33:34] light and life because that's a cool thing to say.

[01:33:40] The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds. You can send questions and

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