David and Loremaster Bryan8063 continue their special coverage of the PBS Ken Burns miniseries The American Revolution with immediate reactions to the second episode. The discussion explores Burns' careful navigation of politically sensitive material, the Declaration of Independence as a radical and inspiring idea that resonated with enslaved peoples, women, and Native Americans, and how tyranny and barbarity ultimately backfire. The hosts examine the emergence of American identity among diverse colonial populations united by a single revolutionary concept: living under a government of their own choosing.
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00:00 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lorhounds and our special coverage of the PBS mini-series the American Revolution.
00:06 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: This is episode two and asylum for mankind.
00:11 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm David, I'm one of the main hosts of the Lorhounds.
00:13 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And with me for this special project is Lormaster, Brian 863.
00:19 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian is a beautified Lormaster and American history.
00:24 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian, how are you doing?
00:30 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be covering this latest installment of Ken Burns and kind of a different way than we might normally give in the nature of this show.
00:39 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And we had a plan and then we realized that that was different than how they were releasing it and then we even learned a little bit more about how they were releasing it.
00:51 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So we've adjusted our plan.
00:52 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully it'll work.
00:54 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_00]: All episodes are available for streaming.
00:58 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're a subscriber of the PBS ecosystem, whatever, Pat's called Passport, or something like that on all the details of it.
01:05 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But I believe it's still airing terrestrily every night from 8 to 10 PM.
01:11 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Local time, I guess, are easy.
01:12 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Eastern Tandard.
01:14 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:14 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:15 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what the nice thing is is that we can actually kind of watch on our own pace and we don't have to stay up till the wee hours to record and try to get a podcast out.
01:25 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to still do the six episodes.
01:29 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do one episode per per
01:32 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_00]: one podcast per episode, and then we're going to do a wrap up later.
01:38 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I was in Boston yesterday of all places.
01:41 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
01:42 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We're catching up with episode two today.
01:45 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the nice things about this is that we don't have to be as rushed, right?
01:49 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:49 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We were trying to like, oh, let's get just done in half an hour or so.
01:52 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We got
01:55 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_00]: for slow cooking.
01:56 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:57 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Once this series concludes, we are going to get together for a special series wrap-up podcast with Marilyn Arpequila.
02:05 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't know, Marilyn, she is our favorite Tolkien scholar, one of the regular co-hosts.
02:10 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: kicking around the lower-hand network, not only is she a history buff for shelf and sort of grew up in the New England region, but she was a professional research librarian as an American career.
02:21 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll have dates when we will announce when we have a date for that once we actually pick a date for that and get that logistically organized.
02:30 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
02:30 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
02:31 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
02:32 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_02]: She's on the door to choose on the discord.
02:34 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
02:35 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_02]: We had a nice conversation.
02:36 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So the conversation on discord is
02:40 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I saw that this morning when I jumped on that there was a lot going on as a quote and it was too much for me to get to up on but we'd like to invite you, dear listener if you're not already on discord.
02:51 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome to join us there.
02:53 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We've got channels for all the different stuff that we cover on the lorehouse network and we've got channels for all of our affiliates and all that kind of stuff.
03:00 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a great place to have conversations ask questions, Brian posted our template, our questions template in there, so I saw an ENTM filled that out as well, the other day that was great, but we also welcome your feedback.
03:14 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have concerns or questions or want to add something or you want to participate with the template thing,
03:21 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Send that in.
03:22 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to do it a little quickly because we're rolling forward, but you know if if it takes you a minute, we'll have some of those collected for the end of the series and the series wrap up podcast.
03:35 --> 03:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely, as always, please subscribe and support the podcast if you can.
03:42 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Please check out all of our affiliates on our network.
03:44 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a link in the show notes.
03:46 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a
03:48 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to know more about Brian's background, you go back to episode one and I think you can hear that.
03:54 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we're going to be using this template each night to help us process the episode.
04:00 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So all of that out of the way, big breath.
04:04 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Reflections from the previous episode.
04:07 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I got some feedback from someone I'm very close with and that gave me a couple of perspectives that I thought were interesting to share.
04:16 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I was also walking through Boston the other day and I listened to another podcast where there was a conversation with.
04:23 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Sarah, botstein, botstein, and Berns, but Brian, so I want to touch on those things, but Brian, I'm going to invite you if you had any not reflections on Episode 2 yet, because we're going to get into that.
04:39 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But having seen Episode 2 now looking back, how are you feeling about Episode 1?
04:44 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, the big thing for me is just getting an appreciation for what Burns is doing and Respect that he is trying to jam a lot of information and he has to use these broad strokes right so I kind of reflect back on the appreciation that you know he does have a broad brush.
05:07 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_02]: And that limits, but also it's really necessary, I think, if you're going to try to do only a short series of six episodes for two hours, you know, the, I mean, there's bright scholars historians, you know,
05:24 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_02]: spend lifetime studying all this.
05:27 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, the, yeah, go to the American history section of your little book shop and yeah, volume upon volume, right?
05:33 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly exactly.
05:34 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And Thomas Service and books on Thomas Jefferson are one of the top ones that go up with Lincoln.
05:40 --> 05:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, just like cranks us stuff out.
05:42 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_02]: So that appreciation for the broad stroke kind of comes out a
05:53 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that was something that I noticed too was the idea that, okay, so I'm refraining my thoughts here a little bit to fit this in.
06:11 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: My reflection of episode 1,
06:14 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_00]: has changed now that I've seen episode two.
06:17 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:17 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll get into it for the better.
06:20 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:21 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And an appreciation for what he had to do in episode one, which is he had to speed run us 20 years.
06:27 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:29 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
06:30 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But he also had a other trickier thing to do.
06:32 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is part of the feedback that I got.
06:39 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Was that if he had done too much.
06:42 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_00]: In certain aspects, he might have unintentionally alienated potential viewers of the work of this show because maybe certain, you know, people coming.
07:03 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_00]: to the show with certain already formed opinions as most of us all do.
07:08 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they hit a counter to their opinion.
07:12 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they make a broad brush assessment.
07:14 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is that.
07:15 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
07:16 --> 07:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm out.
07:17 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_00]: This person has this political agenda.
07:20 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a bunch of Poppycock.
07:22 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm out.
07:23 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
07:24 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he's got a very fine.
07:26 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a very narrow path to tread.
07:34 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: to tell the things that haven't been told, the things that are known, but haven't been told that don't live in our mythology.
07:42 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
07:43 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_00]: To open that up and then to invite people in to reconsider what they hold as already, what they hold is a truth, to realize that that truth may be incomplete or that the conclusions that they've drawn from that information,
08:02 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: may not be supported by some of the facts that have that were being exposed new facts to us, right, not new facts in the world, but like, yeah, hey, I've never encountered that idea or the thought or that fact before.
08:16 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: How does that change my point of view on this?
08:19 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And if somebody has calcified beliefs or, you know, this is the way it is,
08:27 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_00]: and then you have that counter information, that can be disturbing and off-putting.
08:32 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And it can have an effect of you deciding to go, this is not for me for whatever reason, I'm out.
08:40 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_00]: See.
08:40 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
08:42 --> 08:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that is very thoughtful because Burns and his team,
08:48 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_02]: know their audience.
08:49 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's as broad as possible.
08:52 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So you don't want you want to steer that balance as much as possible knowing that there are new material out there.
09:01 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_02]: The scholarship has grown over the past 40 years about bringing in new voices.
09:07 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can't ignore that,
09:15 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_02]: which is still important right so you do have that important balance that if you go one way or the other yeah you're right the people are not going to be interested and there's a lot of
09:33 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: where we have counter-vailing attendancies.
09:36 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess we could say wins are blowing from different directions.
09:40 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, defunding of PBS, right?
09:42 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_02]: There's so financially, there's some stakes, high stakes there.
09:47 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is like one of their 10-pole programs.
09:51 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And Ken Burns is really associated with like the brands are very tightly integrated.
09:55 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, exactly.
09:56 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, there is a balance that Burns and his team
10:01 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, you can read into it a, that these winds blowing or these counter, you know, narratives, maybe coming from, you know, you may be reading into my, my broad descriptions.
10:15 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he means those people over there.
10:19 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would posit equally that that can go a 360 degree.
10:23 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not just talking about a particular,
10:26 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: party or a particular segment of the United States.
10:28 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about all of us coming to this with preconceived notions from wherever we are on political spectrum.
10:38 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_00]: that it could be as much from the left as to the right.
10:42 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're not telling this enough.
10:44 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You missed this salient detail.
10:46 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You, you know, here's this micro story about this particular area.
10:51 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's been completely washed.
10:52 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he's got a really narrow path.
10:55 --> 11:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to shout out a podcast, the on with Kara Swisher is a podcast on the way for Get Witch Network.
11:03 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a sleet, I believe.
11:05 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks so.
11:06 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And she had a, you know, Ken Burns and Sarah Botzine are out all over the place doing all kinds of activities from promotions, so you can hear interviews with them all over the place, but I found this interview was particularly interesting and in Ken Burns gets quite passionate about a couple of things.
11:23 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very, it's very fun.
11:25 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was great to hear Sarah because I hadn't really heard her before and I got really moved by some of her motivations for why she has worked over 10 years of her life to produce this thing.
11:35 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about her family and her kids and legacy and that kind of stuff so it was really inspiring.
11:40 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But Ken Burns was saying that, oh, you know, he was on a particular network and they have these different call-in lines for people who have different political things.
11:48 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, yeah, I'm catching it from all sides, but everybody universally says to me, but we love your stuff, we're big fans of you.
11:55 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So he kind of knows where how to center himself based on that feedback and his job and he talks about this, his challenge is not to
12:10 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But to broaden the conversation, yes, to really get people engaged in thinking because when we mono mythologize history, we lose, and Sarah Botsen talks a lot about this in that podcast, that when we lose the nuance of history, then we lose our sense of self in the greater ebs and flows of the course of human events.
12:35 --> 12:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
12:36 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And we then we start to run headlong into problems because we're not being we're not being thoughtful and engaged in in history.
12:46 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_00]: We're being model methodological about it.
12:48 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when something happens, that doesn't fit that, that, you know, uh, uh, simplified
12:58 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: vision, maybe.
12:59 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, then we suddenly are like, wait, crisis.
13:02 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?
13:02 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_00]: This is crazy.
13:03 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_00]: This doesn't work.
13:04 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:05 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
13:05 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
13:06 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, history, you know, you're getting into the weeds of historians were always questioning, you know,
13:15 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_02]: asking those kinds of questions to broaden the perspective because new sources pop up or you read, you look at other sources or that you've examined before with new lenses and new vision.
13:27 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And you begin to say, oh, well, that's interesting.
13:30 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Why did that person say that?
13:32 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there is this background here that no one's explored.
13:36 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_02]: So history is a living kind of organism.
13:40 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
13:40 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:41 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're changing and we're questioning and evolving our understanding and you can look at say homosexuality in the United States and all the ways that we've had laws and cultural practices.
13:54 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Now everybody's like, oh, gay marriage, oh, why would we abolish it?
13:57 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Like what's wrong?
13:58 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's fine.
13:58 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Like so we're constantly examining ourselves in reevaluating and moving and you know the the quote of the long moral arc of the universe, you know,
14:09 --> 14:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But in less we're engaged in those questions and re-evaluating an unearthing or even just read looking at text that we already know, then we're disconnecting ourselves from a way to be in the world.
14:25 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_00]: which is alive and present.
14:28 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
14:29 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
14:30 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a part of our story, and there are many chapters in that story, and national identity, but it's also a group of people, right?
14:42 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is what the founders are trying to struggle with as we go through this series.
14:46 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, how do you get to...
14:49 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_02]: different constituencies that have different viewpoints.
14:52 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not an easy road, but it's a mix.
14:58 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And some of the other feedback that I got, and we set on the discord as well as the conversation I had with this person, was the use of a list celebrities, which I grew to the other day.
15:10 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And I agree with the
15:14 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_00]: the pushback that I got or the alternate viewpoints, which is those voices make it more accessible and people can hear and see themselves in these voices in a way that they might not have the it's a good story using these
15:31 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Actors is a way to broaden the reach of the story.
15:35 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that's a great way of putting it.
15:38 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a tool to bring people in.
15:40 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got Tom Hanks, Paul Giamani, right?
15:44 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:44 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Lame John Adams, which was a fabulous HBO series.
15:48 --> 15:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I highly recommend them to people.
15:50 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even tell you.
15:51 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_02]: He played John Adams, right?
15:52 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so it was so good.
15:56 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, it draws people in.
16:00 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Was, did I hear Josh Brohlens voice in there?
16:03 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm sure the list is quite large.
16:05 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:06 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I heard a number of like over 400 speaking rules across the 12 hours.
16:11 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
16:12 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That may or may not be accurate anyway.
16:14 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So in the last thing I wanted to comment was, as I was walking through Boston yesterday and like took a commuter rail, did a little park and ride shuffle.
16:22 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_00]: got into North Station and then I had about half hour walk to where I had some meetings and stuff.
16:27 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So I got to walk by the state house, I walked by down some old narrow streets and stuff.
16:33 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about this a little bit more about Boston because that's one of the things I
16:42 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_00]: As I'm walking down and I'm seeing these statues or I'm walking through this park or going back the history became alive for me in a way that it hadn't before.
16:53 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that was kind of for me that was kind of fun.
16:55 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, Oh, you know, this is kind of cool.
16:58 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm from the West.
16:59 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have the history right.
17:01 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm from the Pacific Northwest tear down our history is very different.
17:04 --> 17:14 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have as many visible signs or
17:14 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:15 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
17:16 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
17:16 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's suddenly coming alive for me in a way that it had me for.
17:21 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was that was kind of fun.
17:23 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's nice.
17:24 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect.
17:25 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
17:25 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's get into our discussion in the episode.
17:28 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_00]: This is episode two in a silent for mankind.
17:30 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: This is covering the period of May 1775 to July 1776.
17:36 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I grabbed this stuff from the the major episodes from the website.
17:41 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Paul, the American Revolution, they have a great set of resources if you want to dig around a little bit more.
17:46 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely go to the PBS website and go into the Ken Burns and they've got more resources if you have any questions and you want to dig in.
17:52 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But this goes from the capture of Fort Tygon, Tycon, Daroga, if I can say that right.
17:57 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_00]: The second continental Congress, the Battle of Bunkler.
18:01 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I'm really bundling here, the Battle of Bunker Hill, forming of the continental army,
18:09 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_00]: the Battle of Quebec, a British evacuation of Boston, the signing of the Declaration of Independence, and I had a question thrown in there at the very end.
18:20 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please, what's your question?
18:22 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's named asylum for mankind.
18:25 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was trying to throw out there why was it called asylum for mankind?
18:32 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And what do you, what thoughts did you have running around in your mind?
18:40 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It, you know, sometimes you get titles that are like thrown right there in your face like someone will quote from a letter about that, but maybe I missed it, but I don't remember someone saying asylum now or mankind, so I'm wondering if.
19:00 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_02]: is the world crazy and getting crazier, right?
19:04 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the battle, the wars become more of an asylum where it's hard to control people or our low-out of control, and you're trying to learn the tools to control people in the asylum.
19:22 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we have a couple different meanings for the word asylum, right?
19:26 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We have an institution, I'm just looking at the dictionary really quick, an institution for the care of people with mental illness, but the protection granted to a buy a nation to someone who has left their native country as a political refugee, and it can in broadly mean shelter or protection from danger.
19:44 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so with that,
19:46 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_02]: on the flip side, that may be the American Independence Movement is a asylum for, you know, and the colonies are asylum for those who are downtrodden, due to their persecuted celebrities,
20:01 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
20:02 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we're going to get into it here now, this question's tyranny and liberty.
20:05 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
20:06 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
20:06 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think.
20:07 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Which for me, have always just been these weird words.
20:10 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:11 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Until now that we're living in a current context, and then this show, it's really starting to bring some things to light for me.
20:20 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:21 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And this story has been kicking around in my head.
20:23 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't know when to interject it.
20:25 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to interject it.
20:26 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, because I think it's relevant when we went up to go visit Montreal,
20:31 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_00]: a few weeks ago, we stopped through Montpellier on their way to the capital of Vermont.
20:37 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:38 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And our daughter had mentioned it a couple of times, you know, and then they've been covering some Vermont history and American history, and she had had one of those things as kids do.
20:48 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this or that, you know, and as we're driving up, we're like, oh, we could stop.
20:51 --> 20:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's let's go check with at least drive by, maybe grab a selfie.
20:56 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_00]: beautiful fall day Saturday.
20:58 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We're driving by the state capital building.
21:00 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a farmers market in the parking lot next door.
21:04 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_00]: We park.
21:06 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, well, it's a good Saturday.
21:07 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to, you know, is it going to be open?
21:09 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
21:10 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So we kind of walk up.
21:11 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, so let's get a picture and go to the farmers market and get a snack.
21:14 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we see people kind of coming in and out of the thing.
21:17 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, oh, well, maybe it's open.
21:19 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So we walk up, we walk in and literally just people like walking in and out of a house, right?
21:26 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some, you know, if there's no welcome signs, there's no like hours posted or no metal detectors, nothing.
21:33 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Walk in and there's a, there's a state office, state trooper inside the door, you know, at a kind of a little stand and he's just chatting with people.
21:41 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, how you doing?
21:42 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That kind of stuff.
21:43 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we've received to walk around the state capital building of Vermont.
21:48 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_00]: We look at the Senate chambers.
21:49 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We look at the the representative chambers, some meeting rooms.
21:52 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We look at some of the big portraits and big paintings and that kind of stuff.
21:56 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And as we're leaving,
22:02 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought it would be like an airport that there would be security and we'd have to do all this stuff.
22:07 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just nonchalantly said, well, you know, it's the people's house.
22:10 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's our house.
22:10 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, it's open.
22:12 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:13 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Bam, it hit me, right?
22:16 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It really, really hit me that this idea of
22:24 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_00]: self-governance and freedom from tyranny, and the rights to govern ourselves through government.
22:31 --> 22:36 [SPEAKER_00]: How that was like really real for me in that moment.
22:36 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's that's great.
22:38 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
22:39 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And on the flip side, I remember last time I was in Philadelphia and my son was in a stroller.
22:46 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_02]: My wife was at a conference.
22:48 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_02]: So I walked
22:52 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And the Independence Hall was barricaded and armed officers outside the door.
23:01 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_02]: I stopped, you know, to the, I'm a history guy, you know, I love, you know, it's like, this has been a long time since I've been to the Independence Hall.
23:11 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was just standing there and they said, what are you doing?
23:15 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Get out of here.
23:17 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_02]: and it's like, whoa, this was completely counter-experience that you had in Vermont.
23:25 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
23:25 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I felt I was not welcome in a place that was so important to iconic that we'll see at the end of this episode.
23:31 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting.
23:32 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it goes back to that point of that,
23:36 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to be present and awake to the moment.
23:39 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:40 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to get into the milk.
23:41 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't whatever I'm not talking about that.
23:43 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
23:43 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about are we as people present to what's going on in our world today and connect to how we govern ourselves and how we manage and mitigate the human beings are fricking men.
23:57 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: See his head.
23:58 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And how are we, and how are we coming together to create prosperity, to create safety, to create a space for all people to live?
24:07 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:08 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:09 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
24:09 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, do you want to run us through the template then?
24:11 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's do it.
24:13 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's do it.
24:14 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
24:14 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So what things stood out?
24:18 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The, I think the first thing was coming to understand how much more
24:27 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Burns is using reenactment, but he's not doing it in a one to one way.
24:34 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_00]: He's using it in this impressionistic way.
24:38 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it works really well when you hear the muskets firing and, you know, you see a cannon fire, whatever, you know, you see people building barricades and things like that.
24:49 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it really helps to tell the story because he's been a verse to using reenactment in the past.
24:54 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_02]: There were a lot of reenactors in the Civil War series and it felt those battles felt like
25:03 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_02]: the Civil War.
25:05 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_02]: It was really well done.
25:06 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_02]: The use of maps and reenactors right at a good balance to see what's actually kind of get into it a little bit more your drawn in because you're seeing you're kind of seeing it.
25:17 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, what else would it work for you?
25:19 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_00]: What would it work stood out?
25:21 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, the integration of forces, the freedmen who fought for the Americans stood out for me and the Ethiopian regiment for the British that lowered Dunmore put together.
25:34 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_02]: It one of the part of the story that we're talking about, that if everyone was involved, including African Americans and that that integration would, you know,
25:48 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_02]: by times of a war, of course, you know, that integration was gone, they did have white officers for them, of course.
25:57 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_02]: But it was, you know, to decades for that and then another 100 years for full integration of the military.
26:08 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, they really stood out, got it, got it, yeah.
26:13 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And then
26:15 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_02]: the power of written ideas, right?
26:18 --> 26:27 [SPEAKER_02]: The Thomas Payne writes a man, and we saw this episode one, this network of correspondence, right?
26:28 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you remember that, and then the Declaration of Independence, the power of those written ideas are just so important, just stands out to me.
26:40 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_02]: The quick story I have to tell
26:46 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was sitting at the research library desk there.
26:49 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And some gentlemen came down and we started a chat.
26:54 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_02]: And he said that he was visiting Monochello.
26:57 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Do about the library one to visit here.
27:00 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And he was, I can't remember what he was from the Caribbean.
27:05 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_02]: He was from a Caribbean island.
27:07 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_02]: that he lived through the independence of that island.
27:11 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_02]: And I used big chunks of the decoration of the independence to write, to help write their cause, their argument for freedom from the British.
27:22 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_02]: So it is a worldwide document.
27:25 --> 27:33 [SPEAKER_02]: And what stands out is the importance of those words, just rippling across the globe.
27:34 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's interesting, we'll talk more about it later when we get into some of the other themes and topics and what I want to know more about and stuff like that.
27:44 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But something that occurred to me while watching this was this, I'm calling it an original sin in a way of greed, what's causing all of these people to quote unquote rebel?
28:02 --> 28:06 [SPEAKER_00]: what is causing people to enslave other people?
28:07 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a particular form of chattel slavery in the American story, but slavery is a phenomenon that has been present in all geographical regions of human history.
28:19 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, at different times, and in different ways and for different purposes, but this idea of
28:28 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_00]: owning or controlling other other people, and what is slavery in this time period, it's part of the economic engine of sugar, of cotton, of tobacco.
28:44 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just goes, and what is driving
28:55 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, lands that they can call their own, but then wait a minute, those lanes are hurting, you know, occupied by other people.
29:01 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just sort of goes back to this question of greed.
29:03 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:04 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I just this thing, it's very much in our our human nature.
29:08 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to call it human nature, but this tendency that we have towards.
29:12 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_00]: greedy scarcity or scarcity is different than greed, I think, you know, the scarcity mindset versus a greedy mindset.
29:20 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't pretend to understand it, but to me that this original sin is this, why did the king, why did the king want to use tyranny?
29:30 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Why did parliament want to, you know, tax people in this crazy way, greed, right?
29:36 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_00]: They were right.
29:37 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Britain was
29:42 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's, you know, why have an empire, right?
29:47 --> 29:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, it's for resources.
29:50 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_02]: It's for, for whom are those resources?
29:54 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly, right?
29:56 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Why did, you know, Spain go into Central America and just extract all this gold, right?
30:03 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It's for reason and using slaves for cash crops.
30:10 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
30:11 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
30:11 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
30:12 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_02]: It's economic.
30:14 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_02]: It's one of the, you know, and of course, in the, in the, in the ether of this revolution is the, uh, life, liberty and property.
30:25 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
30:25 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, right.
30:27 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which was changed to happiness, right?
30:30 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:30 --> 30:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Jefferson did not use property and just and yeah, it's it's it's about yeah, but you're right.
30:38 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_02]: There's there's, you know, people who want property for farms and living life and to be happy, but also property has like like in nature two coins one side of it.
30:50 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_02]: The other it's it's also it's a good thing and it's also
30:54 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_02]: a bad thing when you're agreed.
30:57 --> 30:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
30:58 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the other thing itself for me this episode and this is just a more of a minor point is is that we went from a span of and we touched on this already a span of 20 years to a span of about a year.
31:08 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:09 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:09 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And this episode, what stood out for me is that this episode,
31:14 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to say had more coherence, but I could engage with it much better because we weren't just going, you know, we weren't just sort of running through all of this really complex and deep history.
31:26 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: This is, after all, a series on the American Revolution, not a series on the seven year war.
31:31 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
31:34 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it flowed.
31:35 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I felt more immersed and rushed.
31:38 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
31:39 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're moving on to the next next question of what did we what did we like and one of the things that for me.
31:51 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_02]: is the sickness, right?
31:54 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
31:54 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
31:55 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Epidemic.
31:56 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Sickness is the biggest killer in armies and civilians that are around the army.
32:03 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_02]: You saw that in the Civil War.
32:05 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_02]: You see it in most wars.
32:07 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I did not appreciate the death and the illness of smallpox.
32:14 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_02]: That was, I really enjoyed learning about that.
32:18 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
32:19 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:19 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I had that too on for in in my most surprised moment.
32:24 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I did realize I was like, whoa.
32:27 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And that it basically because of smallpox Montreal is not part of the United States of America.
32:35 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
32:37 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
32:40 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I did a little reading on smallpox, the very old of Iris.
32:45 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a major and a minor version, because of fever intense fatigue headaches, you get this rash at first appears in the mouth, and then it spreads to the extremities, and most of the body, and then they turn into a little fluid, filled blisters, I won't get into too many details here, and then scars and scar, and then the scar, and then the scar should fall off.
33:08 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_00]: and you were contagious from the moment that the fever started until the last scab fell off.
33:15 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Whoa.
33:16 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It was spread by droplets infected droplets.
33:19 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_00]: She eats bedsheets, touching, being in close contact with other people.
33:24 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And it took about anywhere from 7 to 17 days to incubate.
33:29 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you didn't become infectious until you had the fever.
33:31 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So really hard to identify because you have that huge time
33:37 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_00]: your body, you know, the virus is replicating in your body or it erupts in the COVID.
33:43 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so then suddenly, well, you know, how do you track it?
33:46 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you slow that down?
33:48 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard because of the incubation period.
33:52 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_00]: When it killed about one in three people, and it left people severely disfigured and scarred.
34:00 --> 34:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And the last
34:02 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: reported death, if this is correct, was in 1977, and we have eradicated smallpox.
34:10 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe, I don't know that it's, you know, measles I know is coming back, but I believe smallpox has been eradicated in the wild, I know we still have samples.
34:21 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So very deadly and painful and very contagious disease eradicated through vaccination.
34:28 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and what's interesting was this idea of vaccination happening at that moment, right, where they George Washington had to decide should I vaccinate my troops?
34:38 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's a problem because they're going to get a little sick.
34:41 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, maybe I don't.
34:43 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I know Thomas Jefferson's supportive vaccination, as well.
34:47 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So there are some people, you know, scientists and leaders who supported this idea of vaccination with low needle and putting in a low amount of the virus in there.
34:58 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty amazing, science history there.
35:01 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
35:02 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_00]: What else did you like about this episode?
35:06 --> 35:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Not that we like smallpox.
35:09 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You like learning about the his learning about.
35:11 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the power of these little viruses to upend everything The domino theory
35:19 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, British.
35:21 --> 35:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I had that in my notes.
35:21 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_00]: See, I was like, wait, there's a domino theory.
35:23 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a domino theory.
35:24 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_02]: We all know about the domino theory, right?
35:27 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_02]: That it was, if America falls, then our empire is done for.
35:35 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
35:35 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And it brings you back to, you know, the post-war war two era, you know, with Truman and Greece, it's a domino theory and then of course, for Vietnam.
35:47 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_02]: That was one of the things that Lyndon Johnson was worried about and leaders worried about.
35:53 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_02]: That Vietnam falls, you know, Cambodia allows, you know, all the rest fall.
35:58 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_02]: So we must stop.
35:59 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Great.
36:00 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_02]: We must stop the dominance here, like, yeah, yeah.
36:03 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Even, I think it even makes it to Star Trek in a way, sort of.
36:07 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I just remember Picard going, it must stop here.
36:10 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think that was the boring invasion or something.
36:13 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:13 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
36:14 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, exactly.
36:17 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and another thing that's that I liked was toward the end, we had the country has a name.
36:28 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'd say it's from America.
36:29 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
36:30 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
36:30 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Ursula, Le Guin.
36:33 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_02]: We, we see what?
36:34 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Ursula, Le Guin.
36:35 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
36:36 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, with the name.
36:37 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_02]: You, you give, you're giving me the name, right?
36:42 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_02]: that the power of the name is like what do you have to do with the formation of our country right now Yeah, yeah, describing the phenomena of naming and truths and yeah exactly yeah We now have a true name and people can gather around that name that I that is part of our vocabulary right yeah
36:58 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when you can identify something and you can create a distinction around it, you can say, okay, this is different from that.
37:05 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
37:05 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I can relate to it in a different way in a particular way.
37:09 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:10 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:10 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I see the same moving going back to illness when you can identify it and map the contours of it, then you can, you know, understand the treatment and the protocols that are involved, right?
37:20 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's right.
37:21 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_00]: What else?
37:22 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.
37:23 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a covered animation, the battle and re-enactors that feel the Civil War series.
37:28 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So that kind of ticks off what I was liking.
37:30 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Anything else you want to add on?
37:30 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would echo your, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
37:38 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: appreciation of the maps.
37:39 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd loved the, for the battle of bunker hill, seeing the terrain, seeing the battle plans, and then the battle realities, you know, they got stopped here by this big wall, and was like, oh yeah, and there's a lot of buildings around, and they're probably taking a lot of crossfire, and they're, I forget, as an inflate, when you're high above something, they're definitely,
38:05 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very complex thing to show battle progressions, and so having those animated maps with that terrain was really super helpful.
38:15 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I really love that.
38:17 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
38:19 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing that I liked, and we kind of talked about this already is that it was the whole episode was easier to track because the time frame was was much more pressed.
38:29 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So I like that.
38:33 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Burns and Bahsina are introducing, which it's in the story, it's not something overt, but it makes me think of a Tolkien thing, which is that bravery is contagious.
38:47 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:49 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to remember was a Mary or a hip-end who stabs the night spoilers for Lord of the Rings.
38:55 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But is it Mary or a hip-end stabs the witch king in the foot which then allows A.O.
39:00 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_00]: into strike a mortal blow?
39:03 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:04 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But there is this thing because he's seeing other people be brave.
39:11 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So he becomes very, so I'm thinking about the fipher who's inspired and then he's inspiring that's all of these people who don't have on a surface level that much in common are inspiring each other to be brave in the face of the red coats, which are supposedly a dangerous army, but they're a little bit of a, they're not a paper tiger in, in.
39:36 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: In all senses of the words, but they are their reputation is a bigger than their actual effectiveness in battle, and that without bravery amongst the patriots.
39:54 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but then that's a really complex thing because you know, and I don't want to over here to to mythologize it because a lot of that is is driven by desperation.
40:03 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's driven by mob violence like if I go home and I didn't fight, then the mob's going to come for me, right, because you know, there's so it's a complex thing, but just in the face of that the sheer amount of death and destruction that's being.
40:17 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's pretty it's pretty wild that there there are people who are.
40:23 --> 40:27 [SPEAKER_00]: could see their way through to being brave and the inspiring others.
40:27 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's something as, you know, you see this in the series, you know, when you're fighting, you've got men next to you that would, you know, help you be more brave.
40:40 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_02]: You got like the, I imagine like the first continental congress and the second continental congress with new people coming on board, you're not alone, right?
40:49 --> 40:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And that gives you inspiration
40:56 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, so we're going to continue on on our little template here about what did you just like when you start out that one David.
41:04 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have many dislikes on this and I just I don't want to dig too deep into this but I'm debating the format should we have.
41:12 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_00]: six to hour episodes or 12 one hour episodes.
41:15 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
41:17 --> 41:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're a lot of people on the discord and people I'm talking to they're like, oh yeah, I can't do two hours.
41:23 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've got to break this up.
41:24 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So so it's hard to say what's the right formatting?
41:28 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure they deliberated over, but that's like the only thing I could come up that I Go to dislike
41:33 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you make a good point because, you know, as, as a lot of us, especially us in our community, we are used to watching one hour episodes, right?
41:43 --> 41:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes two episodes will drop and we complain about that.
41:47 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Right?
41:48 --> 41:49 [SPEAKER_02]: It's too much.
41:49 --> 41:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:49 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_02]: It's too much.
41:51 --> 41:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, it would be interesting to have like maybe one hour episodes.
41:55 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you could officially do that.
41:57 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You could stop it at one hour, but then it doesn't conclude.
42:01 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
42:02 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they don't tell a wrapped story.
42:04 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So like I said, it's just a minor nitpick.
42:06 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't Yeah, I don't want to get stuck in on what the formatting is because once they once they're released
42:11 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be able for streaming and whatever you just watch it in your own pace, but still exactly.
42:17 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I know they had a conundrum, like how do we do this and that's why they're doing, you know, why they made a choice for six nightly two hour episodes for terrestrial broadcast and streaming and whatever it's a complex soup of choices for broadcasters these days.
42:32 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly, exactly.
42:34 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's a much changed environment from the Civil War and the Jazz, some of the earliest stuff in baseball, and it is now.
42:40 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a new environment to know about you.
42:44 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_02]: So I had, yeah, I had a little, I had to think about this because there wasn't a whole lot of dislikes here.
42:51 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_02]: The music, I thought, I was, you know, in the Civil War, there were some iconic songs.
42:58 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
42:58 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_02]: that came back over and over again through the series through the episodes.
43:02 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't have that as much because I know that they can deliver.
43:07 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_02]: But they did a very nice job, though, at the end.
43:10 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was America, the beautiful and violent.
43:12 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:12 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I heard that.
43:13 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:13 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like that.
43:14 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that is a callback to the Civil War, the famous song with the violin that, you know, came out on the soundtrack.
43:27 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, I was saying, uh, maybe, you know, think about the music, but we'll see, it's storey.
43:33 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I think, uh, I would love to see just, I think more women voices, I think we just had a couple, but, you know, it's overall very good though.
43:42 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's something what I was trying to point to as well is if he front loads too much, yeah, then it's going to get the complexity of reaction is going to be a little bit too dynamic and I think he's probably being careful about.
43:59 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_00]: which stories to tell and which stories to bring forward.
44:01 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Not as a political agenda thing, but as a, I want to tell a story that if somebody bumps up against an idea or an issue that they don't feel overwhelmed by it, but they can actually start to appreciate and approach it.
44:19 --> 44:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And there were some great quotes by some women in, yes.
44:22 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_00]: and some great quotes from some enslaved people who were like, oh, I forget the gentleman's name.
44:29 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It was in my note somewhere, but the boy, it was Jefferson who was writing the declaration of independence and then the dude was like, yo, man, you didn't want to pay me, so like,
44:40 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the George Washington.
44:41 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it George Washington?
44:42 --> 44:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Was George Washington that Jefferson?
44:43 --> 44:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:44 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_02]: He's very vessel.
44:45 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:45 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
44:46 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Her dad knew Russell.
44:47 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
44:48 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:48 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:49 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and you have in your notes.
44:50 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:51 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:52 --> 44:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:53 --> 44:55 [SPEAKER_02]: We can just move on and I could tell you about it.
44:55 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_02]: So one of the things I wanted to know more about.
44:57 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_02]: It's funny.
44:58 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't even looking at the outline.
44:59 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's right there.
45:00 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really done.
45:00 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Nicely done.
45:01 --> 45:03 [SPEAKER_02]: We can tell you're professional.
45:03 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I had half of them.
45:04 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just feeling my way through the dark, so.
45:06 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Very good.
45:07 --> 45:07 [SPEAKER_02]: We do.
45:09 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Dave knew we're also was a great story with George Washington.
45:12 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, why don't you do a little chores?
45:14 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, how much are you going to pay me pay you?
45:19 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't think so.
45:20 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I'm out of your buddy.
45:22 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I love it.
45:23 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_02]: It was, I wanted to know more about that.
45:25 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, he lived to apparently a long life.
45:28 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
45:28 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And wrote it and we're had some, yeah.
45:30 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We're used to tell about that.
45:31 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's like, I'm gonna, I gotta learn more about this, about this kid, that was awesome.
45:39 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Ha ha ha ha.
45:40 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
45:41 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:41 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And uh, I want to learn, I want to learn more about the Mars, the Mars fleet.
45:47 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're writing city, floating city with rafts.
45:51 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_02]: It was segregated and and of course smallpox just devastated them.
45:57 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, and I guess it's not the only fleet that was out there with these rural governors, but it's like, can you imagine
46:09 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're not talking cruise ships people, we're talking about, you know, people stacked up in those small places and I want to learn more about that.
46:20 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It's crazy.
46:21 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:22 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
46:23 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:23 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_02]: How about you?
46:24 --> 46:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I thought it was interesting that wigs and torries are around at this time.
46:30 --> 46:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:30 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I kind of wanted to understand.
46:32 --> 46:39 [SPEAKER_00]: it may be interested in political parties and the history of political parties when you have a monarchical rule.
46:39 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you might have factions and different say what's the right word I'm looking for.
46:48 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Not the gentry is not the word.
46:50 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, just all the system of barons and dukes and Dutch, you know, on all these kinds of things, you might have factions with those and those that organizational structure.
46:59 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But political parties, and I recognize the word wigs and I recognize the word torries, and I know political parties have changed Democrats, Republicans of, are not wouldn't necessarily be recognizable now to, you know, if we brought somebody back from the past,
47:15 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a thing that caught my eye.
47:17 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, oh, yeah, that was my ear.
47:19 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Wigs and Tories, the other thing that I thought was really interesting and would love to know more about too.
47:26 --> 47:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they do a good job of
47:29 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_00]: of laying out this conundrum of both enslaved people as well as Native Americans, which side do I fight for if I think.
47:42 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
47:43 --> 47:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
47:44 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a conundrum there.
47:45 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:45 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a lot more story to be told as to why did this community or this individual or this family,
47:53 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_00]: do this or do that.
47:55 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:56 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think when we get into that, the complexities in the nuances of history, there's a lot there that would be interesting about what was the rationale that individual or community used to make a choice about who they allied with or didn't ally with.
48:22 --> 48:30 [SPEAKER_00]: thing going on there with the different Native American tribes who had had long contact with the British long before the Americas were, you know, these colonies.
48:30 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And then as with the enslaved people who were
48:38 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, I'm being promised freedom is that an opportunity or, you know, those, those, those, those Patriot guys, they look to be like pretty messy and violent.
48:47 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I want to hang out with them because I don't know that I'm going to get my, yeah, they're just that there's a lot of complex decision making going on.
48:54 --> 48:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
48:56 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I can imagine just hanging around, you know, just trying to figure that out.
49:02 --> 49:04 [SPEAKER_02]: What, what do we do to go with the British?
49:04 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, yeah, it's a complex decision.
49:09 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the last thing I'd love to learn more about is a Thomas Paine and a common sense a pamphlet book thing that he wrote I was like oh yeah because there's always been something stuck in my mind around
49:25 --> 49:37 [SPEAKER_00]: public school and how public schools supposed to operate in the United States, which is due and somewhere I heard this and it's never been dislodged in my brain and I don't know much about it but this idea of common sense.
49:37 --> 49:39 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you create common sense?
49:39 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: There's both common sense of,
49:41 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, uh, uh, don't walk around a construction site at night.
49:45 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, right, that applies like, right, there's that kind of common sense.
49:48 --> 49:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's common sense of you and I have a basic understanding of, you know, being both citizens, what our responsibilities are.
49:57 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_00]: to ourselves, but to our fellows and to our neighbors that we put our trash out on, you know, Wednesday nights and you, you, you know, you put it in whatever, you, you know, all these things, but yeah, we have a common sensibility, common sensibility, yeah, there's laws about stop signs, but, you know,
50:15 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We understand why that that's necessary or whatever.
50:18 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a common sense ability among the people.
50:22 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'd be curious to actually read his pamphlet.
50:25 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
50:26 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it a folk or a pamphlet I can't remember now?
50:28 --> 50:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's a pamphlet.
50:29 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_02]: OK.
50:31 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's such an important document to get people on board with this idea of independence.
50:37 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
50:38 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think I ever, I don't remember it in any history lesson.
50:44 --> 50:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember hearing about it, but I don't remember, I don't know how it's been distilled and broken out and distributed, but I don't ever remember encountering it as a whole.
50:53 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, interesting.
50:55 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:55 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:55 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_00]: 47 page pamphlet.
50:56 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
50:57 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like it.
50:57 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
50:57 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:58 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a small part.
50:59 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
50:59 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:00 --> 51:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:04 --> 51:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's that's it for my new more about list.
51:08 --> 51:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
51:08 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll move on to what surprised you the most.
51:13 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you want to talk a little bit about Boston?
51:16 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was there, yeah, yeah.
51:18 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Seeing those maps Boston, I was like, what is going on?
51:23 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I had no idea.
51:25 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that in a lot, I'm originally from Seattle.
51:28 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know there is a bunch of waterfront that was, we have the Denny Regrade, and it's literally called Regrade because they flattened this hill.
51:36 --> 51:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And they took all the dirt and they put it down into the harbor to create more usable harbor space.
51:42 --> 51:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:43 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I know we've done a lot of care for me with a governor's island in New York City and the, you know, between Brooklyn and Manhattan there.
51:52 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:53 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
51:53 --> 51:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a, you know, half of that is a made island of, you know, yeah.
51:56 --> 51:56 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
51:56 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
51:57 --> 52:00 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of places in New York City will turn next week.
52:00 --> 52:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
52:00 --> 52:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It's now like more in the city.
52:03 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
52:03 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:04 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Exact for line.
52:04 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:05 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So I had no idea that Boston had been terraformed to that degree to that level.
52:10 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So that was surprising.
52:11 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_02]: That was interesting.
52:12 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_02]: That is interesting.
52:13 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:13 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think Nancy, maybe it was Nancy, somebody, somebody on the discord was saying that they were also surprised by that.
52:20 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So.
52:21 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
52:22 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the other thing that surprised continues to surprise me, and maybe this won't ever come off my list is just the scale of violence and death and brutality.
52:30 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:32 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:32 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Then they layered in disease today, and you're like, oh, wait, you're not just at risk of the environment, and you're not just at risk of the mob or the breadcoats, but like you start stacking all of that up, and it was a nasty and brutish time to be alive.
52:50 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, your life expectancy was short to be in with and now you throw this in the mix and I can imagine like getting hit and being wounded and surviving that right.
53:03 --> 53:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
53:03 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the secondary realization of that is that our country's history is one of violence and brutality, which is so when you compare it to these really important ideals that have changed the shape of human history, freedom and liberty.
53:24 --> 53:27 [SPEAKER_00]: but at what cost, right?
53:27 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not questioning the cost one way.
53:29 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just putting those things together and just figuring out, wow, I think you mentioned it last episode, just the brutality of violence, be it mall, be it red code, be it whatever.
53:41 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's nothing like violence to help people understand the stakes, right?
53:49 --> 54:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, uh, all of a sudden you're seeing these ships circling your harbor and shutting it down in Boston and you realize, you know, you've got these, you know, 30 gun plus ships right out there and you realized.
54:04 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_02]: my shop is in trouble for our burning of Falmouth, which is yeah, and I believe it's exactly right, and now you are faced now with that violence, you are forced to face a decision, do what do I do, right, yeah, yeah, it's a change agent, I think, right, yeah.
54:24 --> 54:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's it for my list on.
54:27 --> 54:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so yeah, and what I had was what we talked about before the 5 free men who fought for America, that was kind of surprising, appreciate that, and of course, the smallpox, which we mentioned earlier.
54:39 --> 54:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
54:40 --> 54:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I had something else on my list too.
54:41 --> 54:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, go ahead.
54:41 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is that the the declaration of independence,
54:46 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_00]: is, you know, it's a noble and heroic document and declaring our independence, but it's what I thought was also interesting and surprised me was that it's an indictment of tyranny.
54:58 --> 54:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
54:59 --> 55:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
55:00 --> 55:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like a speaking indictment.
55:02 --> 55:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we talk about that in it's because, you know, when a prosecutor uses that and they lay out
55:06 --> 55:08 [SPEAKER_00]: this really the series of charges.
55:09 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly exactly.
55:11 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And that it's forgotten a lot of times.
55:13 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_02]: It is.
55:13 --> 55:18 [SPEAKER_02]: It is not part of the decoration we talk about, but they did a great job.
55:18 --> 55:20 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is the indictment.
55:20 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a list of crimes.
55:22 --> 55:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
55:22 --> 55:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Alan Taylor talked about.
55:25 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that the King is the enemy.
55:28 --> 55:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
55:29 --> 55:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And Atlantic slave trade was and they did.
55:32 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this that and the other thing are exactly are not so we cannot suffer these things.
55:38 --> 55:38 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
55:38 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
55:39 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Good thought.
55:40 --> 55:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Good thought.
55:40 --> 55:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
55:41 --> 55:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so our last group is what are the story or stories burns is telling and how well do you tell it?
55:51 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_02]: For me, there's a few of them that one is like people are divided, right?
55:56 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a story, the loyalists are about law and order supporting the British, you know, unwritten constitution versus these rebels, you know, that's no, it's still an important story that we get a little bit here and there.
56:08 --> 56:14 [SPEAKER_02]: in this episode, I'm hoping as we go forward, we'll get a little more about the loyalist as well.
56:14 --> 56:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
56:15 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_02]: And this idea of patriots are not perfect people.
56:20 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
56:20 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
56:20 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I have that too.
56:21 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
56:22 --> 56:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Declaration of Independence men are create all men are create equal, but it's a tool
56:32 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_02]: and George Washington slaves, right, about allowing free black people to fight.
56:39 --> 56:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So on one side, it was a slave owner, but he loud free blacks to fight in the condon army, which I didn't know.
56:46 --> 56:46 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, wow.
56:47 --> 56:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So there you go.
56:48 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_02]: There's this.
56:49 --> 56:50 [SPEAKER_02]: They're not perfect.
56:50 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_02]: They're all, you know, but they're human beings.
56:54 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So you kind of appreciate that story that he's trying to tell and that well.
56:58 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_02]: You're right.
56:59 --> 56:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
57:00 --> 57:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
57:00 --> 57:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:00 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I have that.
57:01 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
57:02 --> 57:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
57:03 --> 57:05 [SPEAKER_02]: The final thing national identity, right?
57:05 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_02]: This this, this, this, the relationship is a tool for expansion of those rights.
57:08 --> 57:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
57:09 --> 57:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So those are kind of stories.
57:11 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_02]: How about you?
57:11 --> 57:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a couple of similar things.
57:13 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_00]: No one is a hero, all are flawed and compromised.
57:16 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no purity.
57:16 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:18 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:18 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:18 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all of these men and women who benefit from enslavement.
57:26 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're then writing this document to say, but we're all equal.
57:30 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
57:32 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And but then that this idea is my other note on this is that the idea of liberty inspired everyone.
57:41 --> 58:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, liberty, the free, you know, being free from tyranny, and when we have slavery and enslavement, that there's, you know, you want freedom from enslavement, be it, uh, in some cases they were writing, we don't want to be enslaved to Britain.
58:03 --> 58:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
58:04 --> 58:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:04 --> 58:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
58:04 --> 58:08 [SPEAKER_00]: We do not want to have taxation without representation.
58:08 --> 58:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we want to be freed of this.
58:10 --> 58:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll pay taxes.
58:12 --> 58:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But we need to have a say in how that money, what money is collected and how it spent.
58:17 --> 58:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
58:18 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, but then there's, yeah, this idea of, Well, if you're saying that you can be
58:25 --> 58:26 [SPEAKER_00]: free from tyranny.
58:26 --> 58:31 [SPEAKER_00]: How is it that you, you can enslave somebody else and not pay them?
58:31 --> 58:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, hey, how much are you going to pay me, Bob?
58:33 --> 58:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing?
58:34 --> 58:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, are you crazy?
58:35 --> 58:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like it.
58:36 --> 58:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but that this idea, that with the declaration of independence and this idea of liberty against tyranny.
58:45 --> 58:47 [SPEAKER_00]: inspired everyone.
58:47 --> 58:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's inspired Native Americans.
58:49 --> 58:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's inspired women.
58:50 --> 58:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's inspired enslaved people's that it was a powerful idea and a new idea.
58:59 --> 59:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly.
59:00 --> 59:02 [SPEAKER_00]: This is possible.
59:02 --> 59:03 [SPEAKER_00]: We can do this.
59:03 --> 59:05 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have to live under this.
59:05 --> 59:07 [SPEAKER_00]: uh, uh, the authoritarian world.
59:07 --> 59:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
59:08 --> 59:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And in, in where I, I don't have any room to, to grow and to, to own my own thing, everything that I do is owned by somebody else and I'm paying up and up.
59:19 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's something that resonates in today's world, right?
59:21 --> 59:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We're, we're, we're, we're constantly paying up and up.
59:23 --> 59:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't kind of, I kind of don't own my phone anymore.
59:26 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I just pay, uh, pay off a fee over the course of the year until I'm ready for the new one.
59:30 --> 59:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just constantly paying.
59:32 --> 59:32 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
59:33 --> 59:33 [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
59:34 --> 59:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Same with cars, same with houses, right?
59:36 --> 59:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
59:37 --> 59:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
59:38 --> 59:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It, you know, when you really think about what you, what you really truly own, right?
59:42 --> 59:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
59:43 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_02]: And I can own my ideas, my freedom, my autonomy.
59:50 --> 01:00:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, it's those that powerful universal, evergreen idea of, of liberty, of rights.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what's interesting as well.
01:00:02 --> 01:00:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a story that's being told is that all of these of various Americans who are showing up to become Americans, but from all over the place, there's a great moment where they talk about the Virginians coming up and they have rifled barrel, they're the guns have rifled rifles.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:23 [SPEAKER_00]: With the spirals as opposed to a smooth board buskit so they're more accurate.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: They dress differently.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:27 [SPEAKER_00]: They have different little cultural elements compared to,
01:00:27 --> 01:00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, somebody from upstate New York or, you know, mean or whatever, so they have very little in common, but then they have everything in common.
01:00:38 --> 01:00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And that everything in common is this idea that we want to live under a government of our own choosing.
01:00:46 --> 01:00:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:50 [SPEAKER_02]: We want our house, as you said in the beginning, right?
01:00:51 --> 01:00:53 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, our country is our house, not yours.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:54 [SPEAKER_00]: No, exactly.
01:00:54 --> 01:00:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And that barbarity and tyranny will backfire.
01:00:58 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Every move that they were like, oh, you know, these people, you know, they just do you put down or whatever.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to quarter troops here, and we're going to do this, and we're going to do that.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And we see it, I think today, in some subnat to get to concurrent politically, we can see that when unmasked, you know, masks, forces, or, you know, sort of come into a community and what have you and start doing stuff, tyrannical stuff, it doesn't work out well in the long run for the people who try to use tyranny.
01:01:29 --> 01:01:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's right.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's deep in our bones, I think, as a country.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:37 [SPEAKER_02]: That would be exactly.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:38 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
01:01:38 --> 01:01:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Well said.
01:01:40 --> 01:01:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:47 [SPEAKER_02]: It is it is there and we're you know we're first it we're seeing it.
01:01:49 --> 01:01:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Then we're seeing it now.
01:01:50 --> 01:01:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And
01:01:52 --> 01:02:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and the British like always over us to make us, you know, the use of power and the force under us to make it.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, under us to make it.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_02]: They over us in their skills in the building.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, use of force use of power and it backfires.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, we win an hour.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's hard not to go long, a little bit long on these.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so much there.
01:02:19 --> 01:02:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And but you're nice not having.
01:02:20 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when we have to, we'll we'll talk offline about when we're going to record episode three because we have to watch that.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe, yeah, we'll see how we go.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And otherwise, thank you everyone for joining us on this again.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a little bit more off the cuff a little less unscripted, a little bit more reaction than analysis, and hopefully it's adding something to your appreciation of American history, whether you're an American or not, and hopefully, you know, the podcast is here, so if you're watching at a different pace, then you know, feel free to come back when you
01:02:56 --> 01:03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to go into the whole thank yous of our discord server boosters and our loremasters you all know who you are so I'm just for time savings again if you're curious about other things we're covering check out the link tree in the show notes and join us on the discord and send feedback to the lorehounds at the lorehounds.com.
01:03:17 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks everyone.
01:03:18 --> 01:03:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.