David and Loremaster Bryan8063 continue their special coverage of the PBS Ken Burns miniseries The American Revolution with immediate reactions to the fifth episode. The discussion highlights Burns' ability to tell previously marginalized stories of women, Black Americans (both enslaved and freed), and Native Americans, connecting scholarship that may have existed in silos.
The hosts explore the British pivot to a Southern strategy aimed at retaining the more economically valuable colonies, the staggering complexity of the North American theater stretching from Montreal to Florida, and the global ripple effects of the conflict. They reflect on missing elements like the Articles of Confederation debates and state-level constitutional work, suggesting the series might have benefited from additional episodes to capture these parallel developments.
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00:00 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: welcome to the lore hounds and our special coverage of the PBS mini series the American Revolution.
00:07 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_00]: This is episode five, the soul of all America.
00:11 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm David.
00:12 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm one of the main hosts uh, the lore hounds and with me as always is Brian 863 one of our lore masters.
00:19 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian, are you doing today?
00:20 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: pretty good how are you late Friday afternoon recording.
00:24 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel a little bit like the scene good fellows with Ray Lloyd, you know, the helicopter chasing them.
00:29 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm being honest.
00:30 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's been one of those days.
00:32 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah absolutely.
00:33 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We're about to start our Thanksgiving holidays.
00:35 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been rather busy.
00:37 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
00:39 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
00:40 --> 00:40 [UNKNOWN]: So
00:41 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_00]: This project has been more of a sort of a reaction rather than analysis podcast.
00:46 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We've been just sort of watching and reacting rather than really thinking deeply or organizing our thoughts so much.
00:54 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a little bit different for us from our normal fair, but it's been good.
00:58 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think people have been enjoying it and we're getting a lot of conversation on the discord.
01:02 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have any feedback today, but we've gotten a few pieces of feedback.
01:05 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to send something in, lowerhounds at thelowerhounds.com, you can do a voice bound, just record a voice note, and email it in, or send us an email.
01:15 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Once the series concludes, which tonight will be the final terrestrial airing, it's available.
01:20 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The whole thing's available for streaming.
01:22 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian and I are going to get together with Marilyn R. Piccila for a special or wrap-up series.
01:29 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_00]: If you've been around the Laura Hounds, you know that Marilyn R. Piccila is our favorite Tolkien scholar.
01:33 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_00]: She is also a researcher librarian that was her profession, and she's lived in the New England area and participated in news a lot about
01:43 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: American history from the time of the revolution.
01:46 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's going to be a really great conversation to we've already taken a picture shared with us her running notes document.
01:52 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's dense.
01:55 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot going on, but that's going to be very cool.
01:59 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_00]: As we mentioned, we have a discord.
02:01 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a great conversation that's happening there.
02:03 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So we invite you to join our discord.
02:04 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a well-moderated space.
02:06 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of really great people talking about all the shows and movies that we enjoy.
02:13 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: If you like what we've been doing,
02:14 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be great if you maybe gave us some positive words and a positive rating on Apple Podcasts.
02:21 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It just helps keep our podcast alive on the rankings and if you want to support what we do, we're independent podcasters.
02:30 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Subscribing is a great way to help us complete and pay for and do all the things that we got to do And there are links in the show note.
02:40 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a link tree and go there.
02:42 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got a Patreon link Got us a supercast link if you want one or the other and of course we are a little mini network as well And we have a whole bunch of affiliate podcasts go check them out as if you want to know more About our larger community
02:58 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_00]: As we've mentioned on every podcast here, Brian, your professional historian, we sort of set up your bonafides in episode one.
03:05 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_00]: We got this little template which you brought forward, which we used to analyze the podcast so that we're not just sort of wandering aimlessly through the forest of New England.
03:16 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That said, we always like to kind of start off.
03:20 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: with our reflections from the previous episode.
03:23 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have any feedback today, so any new big picture thoughts relative to previous episodes or where we are in the season overall?
03:37 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So a couple things, one is the, I'm really becoming grateful for Burns' ability to tell these stories about women, black and slave and freed and Native Americans.
03:54 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Because as we talked before in the previous episodes, these are stories that we really don't hear much about.
04:00 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
04:01 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you do hear about it in high school or wherever, maybe even college as well, if you're at a survey class.
04:10 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_01]: you may not get a whole lot there either.
04:13 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and so this is an opportunity.
04:17 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope for a lot of people, including myself, to really begin to rethink and to explore these new topics.
04:25 --> 04:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really very important and very interesting.
04:29 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like he is taking all the different scholarship that might have already been out there,
04:40 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Not, he's connecting the dots to all of this stuff and maybe creating some linkages and some bridges where there might have been some silo walls in the past.
04:50 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully that will open up the intellectual and academic space in classes and in books and things like this and looking at these cross-cutting.
04:59 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not cross-cutting.
05:02 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's all happening in the same time in the same place.
05:06 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but artificially, we're just, we haven't been telling holistic stories.
05:10 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
05:10 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
05:11 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And Burns is very good experience storyteller.
05:14 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_01]: If you go on the app, you'll see already like maybe anywhere between five or four minutes to eight minutes of little clips about topics.
05:25 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So I could totally see a teacher taking one of those clips about women or black, right native Americans, and playing those for your students for your students.
05:35 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And what a great way to start off conversation.
05:38 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
05:38 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Very cool.
05:39 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
05:41 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing I was thinking about and we talked about this before, but I'm going to bring something a little bit new to it is that I do think the maybe we could
05:55 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_01]: think that we're missing some stories like, for example, the Articles of Confederation, which I have to admit I totally forgot that they started debating about that during the revolution.
06:08 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And what was happening at the state congresses?
06:12 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are very important things that we're going on.
06:15 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mentioned here in the outline about James Madison.
06:17 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_01]: He was in Virginia.
06:19 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_01]: He was working on the state constitution of Virginia.
06:23 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was very interested in religious tolerance.
06:28 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And he would work with Jefferson years later about getting the first bill for religious tolerance on board.
06:42 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, these are a lot of discussions are happening and these, you know, maybe, you know, 13 places that, you know, maybe if we had like maybe a couple more episodes, they can kind of pivot over there a little bit and kind of talk about some of those interesting discussions.
06:58 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So, but, you know, it is what it is still good.
07:02 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it'd be interesting to have been a flying the wall and their deliberations on the size and scope of the project.
07:13 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there is we talked before.
07:16 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm who knows what's on the cutting room for for what how they decided to put this together and what they maybe put together, but then didn't make the final edit.
07:28 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
07:29 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I definitely agree.
07:31 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we talked about the Vietnam documentary, Vietnam more documentary, and that was what I say, 18 hours.
07:39 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_00]: 18 hours.
07:40 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is 12.
07:42 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
07:42 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not that he doesn't have it in him.
07:44 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
07:47 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that.
07:48 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So yes.
07:49 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
07:50 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
07:51 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I am, uh, I'm feeling a little exhausted, uh, not only just sort of in life, but in trying to keep, you know, run a pace of watching two hours of dense content every night.
08:02 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And then also tomorrow, you know, like I said, we're going to be starting our vacation.
08:06 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, we're going to see about recording the last episode.
08:12 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how much we can squeeze much more out of this until we get to a conversation with Maryland.
08:18 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think we might play that by year a little bit.
08:22 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I make sense.
08:23 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_00]: A couple of small reflections.
08:25 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_00]: We got our first mention of Hamilton and Aaron Burr.
08:28 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was like, wait, oh, they got their horse shot out.
08:31 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, what?
08:32 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_00]: and then nothing else.
08:34 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that Amletid was involved in translating the barren's training manuals for the army at Morris Town as they were drilling there.
08:45 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And we got no other mention of any of that kind of stuff.
08:48 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's very interesting because we know that Ken Burns knows the effect of Hamilton.
08:54 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So why
08:56 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, like there's just nothing there.
08:59 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, it's interesting.
09:02 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder what the decision is there to have kept him out for so much of the conversation.
09:07 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, maybe it's ground that's already covered.
09:11 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyone to move on, but I don't know.
09:13 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
09:13 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to understand.
09:16 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There was, again, we've been watching as a family every night, and then I've been doing a little game where I'm trying to identify the famous actors now.
09:25 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Paul Giamati, a recent, a recent Matthews is that his name, or, you know, these different people are.
09:31 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Who did I hear?
09:31 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of brought on all the other day.
09:33 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
09:33 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it's been fun to do that, to try to see if I can pick those names up.
09:39 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that I'm really starting to pick up on, and it's something that you were talking about in just your reflections, which is how he's taking these little vignettes of regular people.
09:51 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: in oftentimes, I think he's equally spread it around, but we're hearing voices of free or enslaved black Americans.
10:04 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We're hearing voices of Native Americans.
10:07 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We're hearing voices of women.
10:09 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: We're hearing voices of just a white land-owning men, but who are sort of caught up in this.
10:15 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But they are within the fabric of the story, interspersing these small points of view among the bigger elements of the story that's going on, so that we never lose touch with the effect of the war, and I think in past, maybe we'd have gotten that a little bit, but we never would have gotten
10:40 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_00]: the perspective of a woman trying to manage her home front while her husband is away on the war, or being attached to that, or an enslaved person or a Native American, we'd never would have gotten those little vignettes, and so he's really, I think they, sorry, keep saying he, they, because they're a team, they really seem to have taken a lot of care in bringing in those
11:07 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: average person voices and seamlessly connecting them into the overall narrative arc.
11:15 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So true, every episode, we make sure we get those little small vignettes so important.
11:21 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:22 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
11:22 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So the other thing I had was thinking about what you said that your son said about
11:34 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And I had this thought and I don't know, you know, I am no historian.
11:39 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I am no academic.
11:40 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So I, you know, this is not an authority, a authoritative thought at all.
11:45 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_00]: This is just sort of a reflection that I'm having, which is that I wonder if we're a nation that does better.
11:53 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_00]: when we've got like a big project or a goal or an objective in front of us, it seems when we don't have a revolutionary war or a world war or a space race or a cold war, something like that.
12:07 --> 12:18 [SPEAKER_00]: But when the country, during this revolutionary war, when things kind of come to a certain point and here's an enemy and here's a problem or whatever,
12:20 --> 12:44 [SPEAKER_00]: New Englanders and Southern states and, you know, Polish families and Native American tribes and members, they can come together and they can focus on that problem, you know, be it a British, you know, forces, or something like that, and really show up and apply a lot of effort and energy into
12:44 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: solving that issue.
12:46 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, be it civil rights, be it anything, you know, there's a, there's something when we have something clear in front of us as a nation, is this a national character that we kind of need something to push against.
13:00 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We kind of need something to, to tax our, that's not the right way to say it.
13:06 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But if, if we're not grappling with
13:10 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a goal directed behavior, what you might say in parenting, right, or working with kids.
13:16 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have some sort of goal in front of us.
13:18 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We, you know, we don't perform as well as when we do.
13:22 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
13:23 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm saying.
13:23 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
13:24 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That may be completely.
13:26 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there may be people who take issue and that's really fighting.
13:29 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm just sort of, it was a thought that arose when I was thinking about what your son said.
13:34 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're on to something, you know, it's when I look at these kinds of presidents over time.
13:43 --> 13:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And seeing the scale of human history, it's, it's.
13:50 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It's this big goal, it's being tested, you know, a country's being tested by war or by massive injustice that I think helps rally, a country toward, you know, a certain, certain ends.
14:10 --> 14:10 [UNKNOWN]: And
14:11 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, I think it does happen maybe at a local level that we may not even notice, like there may be something like an issue in the schools that dial up parents.
14:23 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So something happens, you know, in response.
14:27 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's one of those things that
14:31 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that we as human beings have to be, maybe the stakes have to be kind of higher in our face because we're at a country of peace for a long time.
14:45 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll lose that vocabulary, use those skills to kind of test yourself.
14:54 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting.
14:55 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:55 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It's something we'll maybe we'll talk to Marilyn about.
14:58 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be kind of interesting.
14:59 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe put a pin on that.
15:01 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
15:01 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:02 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_00]: There is, whenever, yeah, I'm not saying we're flawless in that.
15:09 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:09 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But when we as a country decide about something, we seem to be able to apply a lot of leverage to that issue and be quite effective.
15:24 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Once we can agree upon, we can internally align ourselves on that goal or that objective.
15:31 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And be that an internal issue or an external issue, external to our national boundaries.
15:39 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But when enough of us align, we are very effective as a nation.
15:45 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_01]: we are we are and if you want to and then I think good right I'm not talking about moral good or moral bad I'm just saying affective or ability to execute on our intentions yes yes and if you want to stop that if you feel that that objectives are not in your best interest you can muddy the waters
16:10 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Propaganda or something like that that kind of diffuses the momentum.
16:16 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you thinking are you thinking is specific example?
16:19 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, I thinking about maybe today, right, where it's getting harder in our polarized environment, harder for enough people to get together to do something.
16:33 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It does happen, but we're starting to see some shifts in that.
16:38 --> 16:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
16:39 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, I don't want to get, I don't want to get into politics.
16:44 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I was thinking kind of when you were talking just now, I was thinking about the Vietnam War when enough people started to think, this is really bad.
16:55 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is really a really bad thing.
16:57 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to end this.
17:00 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We did, we didn't know that the population expressed themselves to the point where a
17:10 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, Nixon, Nixon's, you know, I mean, Nixon undid Nixon, I think is that is the real issue.
17:20 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But the opposition to the Vietnam War was massive at a tight.
17:25 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, there were like, yeah, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of constant, especially student yeah, called you.
17:34 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and that was trickling up to the politicians saying, okay, we're getting pressure, and I, my moral center, my morality's telling me this is just, we need to stop this, this is just going way off
17:49 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Now when I said, you know, Nixon undid Nixon, it's his hubris and in wanting to record his audio recordings or what, undid him, right?
17:56 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_00]: He undid himself.
17:58 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
17:58 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
17:58 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And he, he wanted to wait to end the war after the election of 1772.
18:04 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So 1772?
18:05 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
18:07 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_01]: 1777.
18:08 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:09 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:13 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, well, okay.
18:15 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to be debate, uh, uh, good stuff, good stuff, good stuff, it takes me.
18:19 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:20 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I'm no historian.
18:22 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just a dude with a microphone.
18:23 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Just a guy at the end of the bar.
18:24 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
18:27 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want people to take me as an authoritative.
18:29 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to, you know, I'm just a guy.
18:32 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, no feedback today, so we're going to get right into the discussion episode five, the soul of all America, this covers December 1777 to May 1780, so we kind of spanned back out here a little bit.
18:46 --> 18:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, do this covers Valley forge the naval campaigns of John Paul Jones, the Battle of Monmouth, Monmouth.
18:54 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Kiss, kiss, cocky, the Battle of Newport, Savannah, the Fort Pit Treaty, the Battle of Insins, the Battle of Stony Point, and Palace Hook, is that what it's called or are Sandy Hook?
19:09 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's different.
19:09 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that wasn't all the other things.
19:11 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
19:12 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_00]: The Sullivan campaign in New York and then the battle of Charleston, Brian, over to you.
19:18 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, thank you.
19:20 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So our first question up as usual is what things stood out.
19:25 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think for me, too, I'm not laughing, but why am I laughing?
19:31 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's, you know, I'm thinking of something else,
19:38 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_01]: That's stood out for me is that it's and he's the countries in it for themselves, okay?
19:46 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And when we go through class again, like through high school, you can think about Lafayette and how he was really interested in liberty.
19:56 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And there were certainly people in France who were interested in liberty and equality, trying to break down the monarchy.
20:04 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But those, especially in the political class and the military class, they're in this war for themselves.
20:12 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think if
20:14 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_01]: If France had their army and navy ready earlier, they might have gotten in to the war earlier, but they just had to wait, right?
20:22 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So they were militarily ready and then they could strike and create retribution against the British for losing in the last war.
20:32 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So
20:34 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Something that stood out for me is France, like a lot of imperial powers are in war for themselves, not necessarily, for these ideals, exactly.
20:44 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
20:45 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
20:47 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and we can see that with the, was he an admiral, I'm not sure what I can't remember what his rank is, but the guy who was sailing around and then he was like, no, I'm going home.
20:57 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he has a death song.
20:59 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's admiral.
21:01 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're like, bro, what's up?
21:04 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was laughing about actually we'll bring them up in a minute, but oh my gosh, yeah, it's like, yeah, I got to go with the Caribbean man.
21:12 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to go.
21:13 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So whatever, yeah, let me guess what they went down there to refit, probably and and right against the yeah, that could be because yeah, there's a
21:24 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_00]: more opportunity to, I forget what it's called.
21:28 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But when you take an enemy ship and then you send it back and then you get the proceeds from that.
21:34 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the private hearing.
21:36 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
21:36 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, not the private hearing.
21:37 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's yeah.
21:38 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_00]: There's another name for it.
21:39 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember the Joseph Conrad.
21:42 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It is Joseph Conrad who wrote the Aubrey Metron book.
21:45 --> 21:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's my historical source, but when a naval ship took
21:50 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: an enemy's ship and it has whale blubber or tea or money or sugar or whatever if it had goods in it and stuff not only did you get to sell the ship and you know they're or the the well at least in the England the Admiralty Court I think is what who did it they would sell the ship they would sell the the material yes
22:13 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_00]: and then the proceeds of that would then go back to the captain's pocket and then you and then everybody in the crew would get a percentage of the yes that sale.
22:25 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
22:25 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think contraband is the right word, but we're getting closer.
22:30 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: We're getting closer.
22:30 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's this idea.
22:32 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I got that.
22:33 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a Friday night, but yeah, so going down to the, yes, it is going down to the Caribbean and, you know, scooping up some of those, then you put a little skeleton crew on it, you send it back, and then it gets, because then your side can take that ship into service, you can take those goods and sell them on the market, and so some of that money goes back into the coffers of the government, and then some of that money goes into the pockets of,
22:55 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_00]: the captain and the the officers and then the crew who all get bits and pieces of it.
23:02 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
23:02 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
23:03 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a it's a pretty good deal.
23:04 --> 23:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Be creative.
23:06 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:06 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:06 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Very motivated and you're not going to do it in the colonies.
23:10 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to the Caribbean.
23:11 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:12 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_01]: What else?
23:13 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the other thing is the stalemate in New England and the middle colonies for three years.
23:19 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I forgot about that, that's a long time.
23:22 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a long time, yes.
23:24 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
23:26 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, I mean, I cannot imagine as a commander, you know, run Philadelphia, New York City, just waiting, waiting, waiting.
23:36 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, all the other action happens another part of the field.
23:42 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
23:42 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
23:44 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And finally, the Clinton proclamation, same thing like with Dunmore, once again, in the same theme that an Emperor not really believing in abolitionists, we're not abolitionists, but we're going to use slaves and freeing them as true rights for us to be victory for victory.
24:02 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So that is one of those things like the Dunmore proclamation that is another tool for them.
24:10 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got some thoughts on related things as we get later on.
24:17 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_00]: My things, therefore, what's to doubt?
24:20 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_00]: One, what must it have been like to be in Washington's presence?
24:26 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_00]: They really made a point of that when he shows up, he'll just appear on the battlefield.
24:30 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_00]: and the troops are like, oh, let's turn around and go back and face the enemy, and it's just wild that he has that kind of aura and leadership quality.
24:42 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but for not him, we would not be podcasting right now.
24:49 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, who knows, whatever, but that that his
24:53 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_00]: His aura and his presence really was a real palpable thing on the landscape and in and around these battles.
25:02 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there was.
25:05 --> 25:10 [SPEAKER_01]: There were other generals like that that had that gravitas, but it's far in view between.
25:10 --> 25:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:10 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:11 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was early funny when the one historian was saying, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but the great man theory, I mean, is this the rule that is the example that proves the rule and breaks it whatever, you know, that you,
25:25 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_00]: He was just dumbfounded the fact that he was confronting the fact that Washington is kind of a great man, so Exactly, that's right.
25:34 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
25:36 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
25:36 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
25:37 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
25:37 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
25:39 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So a couple of other things that we get a lot of the story of the economics of war here.
25:46 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't go deep into it, but I think that was it stood out for me.
25:49 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there was this thing, which I've always kind of thrown around as a funny little quote, not really realizing that it was from somewhere, which is the business of America is business.
26:03 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, whenever I see American businesses that are, why are you doing this or what is this about?
26:12 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just about business.
26:13 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that you're trying to make a better widget.
26:16 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just trying to do business is what you're trying to do.
26:20 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And that that so many Americans were making money off of the war and so many different ways.
26:27 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that mercantilism, that industry, that ability, that wanting to do conduct your fairs in that way has been present for quite a long time in our country.
26:40 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The quote originally comes apparently, I did an research this, Calvin Coolidge, 1925, a speech to some newspaper editors and the full quote is, after all,
26:51 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: The chief business of the American people is business.
26:54 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_00]: They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investigating, investing and prospering in the world.
27:03 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's true.
27:05 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's true.
27:06 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_00]: One of our, one of our, you know, various national values.
27:11 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Not everybody, but it's a pattern that we see present in our population.
27:17 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the, whenever there's a war, there's a profit to be made and a lot of the guilt of age, I was telling you last time with the British up, you know, they started out of a lot of the guilt of age, Robert Barron started out making a fist load of money during these civil war and, uh,
27:40 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think about that too as well as I look at, you know, the, these noble visions that you mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, like the New Deal.
27:51 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_01]: where conservatives and businessmen were seeing this kind of lofty idea that you should be paid for the work that you do and you should be paid well, business, there are a lot of businessmen, mostly rich corporations who did not like the new deal and thought that right, yeah, FDR was a dictator and
28:13 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_01]: that they pushed hard against New Deal.
28:17 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, it does ab and flow as we get different kinds of policies and things like that.
28:25 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a very, very observant.
28:28 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We had the New Deal.
28:31 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we've had a whole bunch of regulations that have been, we've been deregulating from the Reagan era on, airlines, the movie industry, banking, all of these things and so as, as certain sectors,
28:49 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: try to play the game of regulatory capture to change those.
28:55 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Then the people are like, this kind of sucks, we're going to push back and then we have some sort of flip around and we put into more rules and regulations saying, you know, monopolies are bad and we need to regulate this business so that we get a fair marketplace.
29:13 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a tension there that's always going back and forth.
29:16 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
29:17 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Anything else on?
29:18 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Nope.
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Zining out?
29:19 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
29:20 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
29:20 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Next up, what did we like?
29:24 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, one of the things that stood out for another thing that stood out for me in this sort of follow zone from the Washington mentioned that I had, which is leadership needs to be adaptable.
29:40 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_00]: that as a leader, you, yourself need to be adaptable.
29:44 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You need to be adaptable to who you're leading into the circumstances that you're managing.
29:49 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a leadership is almost a process, as much as it is anything else.
29:55 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And we see that with Washington, he's suffered some major defeats.
30:02 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He's constantly on the verge of his army, you know, disbanding underneath him.
30:10 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: in a way, some new strategies, some new ways to speak to the troops, some getting different help, trying different battle tactics, saying, hey, maybe I'm not so great at tactical commander.
30:22 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe Lafayette, you should get in this, oh, the Baron, I've read the Baron's full name, they read out his whole name there.
30:30 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But hey, you know, you're, you're good at training troops,
30:35 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Washington is constantly adapting his leadership style and who he empowers to lead so that they can achieve the goal.
30:46 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, the idea, I really like this idea that leadership is a process, not a virtue, as such.
30:57 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great point where I remember in the earlier episode
31:03 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Washington, for example, knew nothing about artillery, right, he's got a couple books on artillery, right, so he could learn and that is a state of mind that is so final for.
31:18 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Good leaders, everyone from business, to the military, to politics, that's just an extremely good rule of thumb.
31:25 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:26 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_01]: If you can learn and adapt, then you're going to be much, much more successful.
31:31 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:32 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I think to take it even further, if you're authentic about it, then that geek garners you even more respect by the people that you're working with.
31:43 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's an example that people can follow and see that it's not my way or the highway kind of things, but like, oh, yeah, because we're all learning, right, as human beings work constantly learning until we're not.
31:56 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
31:57 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And it, you know, they didn't use the word culture in our modern sense.
32:02 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So we do, but you are trying to create that kind of culture, that command culture, yeah.
32:07 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_01]: That, and he was, you know, what's interesting is that Washington brought that same kind of let me ask around my officers to get input and so I could learn.
32:19 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_01]: to creating his cabinet as president.
32:22 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_01]: He was the first president to create a cabinet.
32:25 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not in the constitution.
32:27 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But he decided to do that way because he learned that way in the revolution.
32:31 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
32:32 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
32:32 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
32:33 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:35 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing I liked was the Baron.
32:38 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
32:39 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a lot of fun.
32:40 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're wearing it in swearing in different languages.
32:45 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I liked learning about the, you know, in military circles, they talk about a spirit of core and the morale of your units.
32:56 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And by just doing some basic skill training and teaching them a little bit more context of soldiery, there's a famous example of if you were
33:11 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_00]: a major league baseball field, and we had a major league pitcher throw a fast ball at us, and we were playing in where the catcher, it would be a terrifying experience for URI.
33:23 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But if we had a couple of weeks of training, we could probably catch a reasonably pitched ball and handle it, because our context has been shifted.
33:34 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We've gotten some training, and so we've gotten a little confidence and we feel a little bit better about ourselves.
33:39 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So teaching the soldiers how to drill and how to form a line and how to tactically retreat and, you know, doing these various things.
33:49 --> 33:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And then suddenly they're like, oh yeah, we can do this.
33:54 --> 33:54 [SPEAKER_00]: This is cool.
33:55 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that makes them more of an effective fighting force.
33:59 --> 34:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That, yeah, I liked that.
34:01 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I liked learning that that was being employed for Washington's troops.
34:08 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
34:09 --> 34:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a time where there was no standing army in this country, and one of the important elements of standing army and professionalized army is to drill, learn how to do these things, which we're just, we're just flying by the seat of our pants.
34:24 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:24 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
34:25 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's one thing to be able to, to load your musket, it's another thing to be able to do it effectively and as a unit so that you can fire a volley in unison and that's going to be more effective.
34:39 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
34:40 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Create more damage in injury.
34:41 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:42 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
34:43 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is just terrible to think about.
34:45 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:46 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:46 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Having a whole bunch of lead balls flying at you and anyway, let's move on.
34:50 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
34:55 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed the private years, the story there, and this great fact about the sugar trade was cut by two thirds.
35:04 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
35:05 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_01]: That is amazing.
35:06 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_01]: That is such an important cash crop to the British that they were effectively cutting that off was amazing, just amazing.
35:15 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it funny that for the tea, they want to drink tea,
35:22 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you need milk, you know, you need sugar and you need sugar for other things that these these are luxury goods.
35:29 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_00]: These aren't necessarily survival goods.
35:32 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no.
35:33 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_01]: People love their sweets, right?
35:36 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You got to have them, everybody.
35:40 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was a part of the global economy along with silk and other things in tobacco, right?
35:45 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_00]: All of this right.
35:46 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fascinating.
35:47 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:49 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the privateeers, Greenwood, and something coming toward Washington dentists, was it he the fight for kid?
35:57 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:59 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Or was he somebody else?
36:00 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_01]: No, someone else.
36:01 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone else.
36:02 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And he ended up, yeah, making the famous dentures.
36:09 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_01]: That's classic.
36:09 --> 36:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:10 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You never know what happens, right?
36:11 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a small world.
36:12 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
36:13 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I thought it was a really what I really liked was a very short but sweet explanation of colonial debt, which is going to play an important element when we form our federal government.
36:25 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And it brings us up multiple times in the show that the colonial paper money is worthless.
36:43 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And then going back to Hamilton, I learned that Hamilton beat our debt competitive.
36:51 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how we were able to fund our central government.
36:55 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
36:55 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
36:56 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Without the debt, Hamlet couldn't take that as a tool to kind of like build a nation.
37:03 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Build a nation.
37:05 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So there is good debt out there, even those we face card debts and credit cards.
37:10 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But nowhere is people.
37:12 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not all bad.
37:13 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's an advantage to that if it's made out correctly.
37:16 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
37:17 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Managed correctly, exactly.
37:18 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you can do things like build a school or build a highway.
37:20 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's right.
37:22 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
37:22 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
37:25 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
37:25 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So on the flip side, what did we dislike?
37:29 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have a lot in my notes here.
37:32 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing though was just the...
37:36 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot to dislike about war and things, but the one thing that was really bothering me, I guess, and rightly so, is just this irrational racism towards Native Americans.
37:51 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
37:52 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And the way there's an irony that
37:58 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, maybe the British were using enslaved in Native Americans in a, what's a way I want to say, in a cynical way.
38:10 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But that ultimately, the British were more better allies than the Americans, like the whole tragedy of going, okay, we'll fight with the Patriots and then ultimately the Patriots.
38:24 --> 38:30 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, are the people who are the who do the undoing of Native American societies across the country.
38:31 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So, right.
38:31 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:34 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:35 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I had something very similar to to that with Clark's campaign.
38:41 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:42 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah.
38:43 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
38:44 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Where he just viciously wanted to wipe out and
38:51 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_01]: to settle the land.
38:54 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was just brutal.
38:56 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And then white eyes is death.
38:58 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That kills the fort pit treaty.
39:01 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
39:02 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That really sort of sets the stage for the way that Native Americans get treated.
39:07 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:07 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Going forward, treaties, broken treaties, constantly.
39:11 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
39:12 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You've forgotten this, exactly.
39:14 --> 39:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Broken, or forgotten, who cares, you know, we're just going to take this.
39:17 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Just going to ignore it.
39:18 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
39:19 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_00]: What, treaty, whatever.
39:21 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I dislike was the retribution in New York City, and we're going to see more of this.
39:30 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure the hang of the Quakers and the more patriots, it's just, again, other just brutal situation again and again throughout this war.
39:42 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_00]: the sort of purging of, uh, yeah, going met into, or when they went into Philadelphia.
39:49 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and anybody who's saying, yes, a whiff of, of loyalists about them.
39:56 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_01]: They, yeah, exactly.
39:58 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, they, they also could use as your weapon if you didn't like the guy.
40:02 --> 40:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this person who's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I saw him.
40:05 --> 40:08 [SPEAKER_01]: He was like, uh, or he's a competitive business competitor.
40:08 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this competitor?
40:09 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
40:10 --> 40:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:11 --> 40:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You covered something else of theirs.
40:13 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
40:13 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_00]: A is.
40:14 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
40:14 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So whatever.
40:15 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's right.
40:17 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And finally, the French ameral,
40:29 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But he can kick rocks.
40:31 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't imagine like Eisenhower's seeing the British, you know, preparing D-Day.
40:35 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_01]: The British comes along.
40:36 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
40:37 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go to Africa.
40:38 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know when we're back.
40:40 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But you do you see later.
40:42 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a stroke.
40:44 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_00]: This is something I had in my, what surprised me the most list, but I'll mention it now, is personality's over goals.
40:53 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know it exists, and I've, you know, we've all dealt with it all of our lives in work and school and in life.
41:00 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_00]: where somebody is exercising personal authority or their personality in a way that's contradictory to maybe the group project or the quarterly sale or whatever,
41:15 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_00]: that personalities over goals.
41:17 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And we see this with everybody, a lot.
41:23 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, man, you're fighting a war.
41:26 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You came here to fight this thing.
41:28 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And but your personality wise, you decide that that's just not, you're not into it.
41:34 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just gonna go.
41:35 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It boggles my mind, just absolutely boggles my mind.
41:39 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It will always boggle my mind until my final days.
41:43 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... the uh... the amazing he goes now around right now okay so we have uh... what would you want to know more about so for me i'm very interested in the women and the children's lives in the army there's been brought up but they they kind of hover around it a little bit longer in this episode and
42:09 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_01]: What an interesting life, a hard life, right?
42:12 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you're moving around with the army and you kind of settle down maybe in a city for a while, but then you have to uproot yourself and then move.
42:19 --> 42:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But.
42:20 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, as Burns was saying that women, especially women, were really important to do some of the things that need to be done for the army.
42:32 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
42:32 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everything from cooking and cleaning.
42:34 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Ten of them did.
42:36 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're going to do it exactly.
42:37 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a lot of domesticity that needs to be managed for in a camp of people.
42:44 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
42:44 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're busy drilling, you know, there's other things that need to be attended to.
42:48 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So that.
42:48 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_00]: a group of human beings can live hygienically and do all the take care of all the things that we need to take care of not live in absolute squalor.
42:59 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
43:00 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
43:03 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing I was thinking about was New York City during the war.
43:09 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_01]: We meant a loyalist traveling with Britain for protection.
43:12 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
43:13 --> 43:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't really fully appreciate that.
43:17 --> 43:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I would really like to know more about.
43:19 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So you were a fan of the Battlestar Galactica stores.
43:25 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, original original original and the reboot.
43:28 --> 43:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And they did me.
43:29 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought of that a couple of times listening to the episode the other night about these traveling bands.
43:35 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's this military unit and then there's this whole host of civilians were like protect us like don't look at us.
43:42 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_00]: They close to you and it really made me maybe think of that in a way.
43:48 --> 43:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, we're the long rounds.
43:49 --> 43:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We that's our IP's always on.
43:53 --> 43:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So nice.
43:55 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, David up with you.
43:56 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you got?
43:57 --> 44:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to know more about the Native American communities in the finger-like region in that part of New York.
44:03 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never been to that region.
44:05 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We had a friend visit there once, pre-pandemic, they had some school family that we knew from the same daycare.
44:16 --> 44:22 [SPEAKER_00]: and they went there for a holiday and I got a text from my buddy and he was like, this place is amazing.
44:22 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, you cannot believe it.
44:24 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so beautiful and peaceful and nice.
44:27 --> 44:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And so to learn that there's these Native American communities that are prospering and they have homes with glass in them and all this kind of stuff.
44:35 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I just had, wow, okay, tell me more about that place.
44:38 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
44:39 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we visited the finger lakes or cells.
44:41 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_01]: We grew up part of our lives in eerie Pennsylvania, so it wasn't too long a trip to go over there, right?
44:48 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Check out the wineries.
44:49 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_01]: They have they have lovely wine.
44:51 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I was blown away as well by the settlement there, by Native Americans, amazing.
44:57 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
44:59 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_00]: John Paul Jones, sounded like an interesting character.
45:02 --> 45:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
45:02 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I recognized his name at all.
45:07 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know anything about him and how he was able to prosecute his aspect of the war.
45:14 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other thing I would like to know more about is how...
45:18 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_00]: did the process of exchanging prisoners actually work?
45:22 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Who met where under what circumstances and how did they actually negotiate out the lists?
45:32 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And you look at a name, oh, lieutenant so-and-so, or B company of the 504th, or whatever, 400 men, and yeah, okay, well, we have, you know, this unit over here of 300 men,
45:45 --> 45:48 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, but that's not worth that, you know, like how did that actually happen?
45:48 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_00]: How did you say, I'm going to trade this for that?
45:52 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And then how did those instructions go out so that when they get released or moved out, whatever, there's just a whole bunch of logistics and mechanical components to exchanging prisoners and doing the whole parole thing that I found, I find the, really interesting.
46:08 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
46:10 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
46:10 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: The people work involved.
46:13 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
46:14 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Even in the 1700s, it's supposed to be a lot.
46:16 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:17 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Why?
46:19 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
46:19 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have some of the surprise, what surprised us most?
46:24 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned about the personalities.
46:26 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
46:29 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Anything else?
46:29 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the couple of ironic things here.
46:34 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I mentioned this already that the British as being more attractive allies for enslaved in Native Americans, offering them better deals, so to speak, or there's just a painful irony there.
46:49 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's another weird irony which is the region called New England.
46:55 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_00]: New England seems to be fighting harder against the British than the southern states are, where there's more loyalists, you know, the affection more present.
47:09 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I just found that kind of
47:11 --> 47:35 [SPEAKER_00]: funny in an ironic way that those who are part of new England are like we don't want anything to do with England but we're going to keep all of our names and you know our place names that we took from England so right well we want independence but not full independence because we like this name yeah yeah history it's like too much work to change
47:37 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I mentioned the Fort Pit Treaty and it was interesting that they were thinking about creating a Native American state.
47:46 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:47 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like, wow.
47:50 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's amazing.
47:53 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if the Fort, you know, we won't know, we will never know if it would ever happened.
47:59 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
48:00 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_00]: If anything.
48:01 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we created space for Native American communities and then as we mentioned before,
48:06 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_00]: ignored it or just blatantly violated it.
48:09 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
48:10 --> 48:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I have, I have a feeling that we would probably would have pushed through it.
48:15 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And, like, uh, sorry.
48:16 --> 48:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But still, there was an idea there was an idea.
48:20 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
48:21 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_01]: That surprised me.
48:22 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_01]: That was, that was pretty, there was a lot of forward thinking there.
48:26 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And then John Lawrence, who was an abolitionist in South Carolina, he's the one who wrote to his dad, saying, hey, dad, why don't we just free your slaves?
48:37 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to, you know, free our slaves.
48:38 --> 48:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, dad said forget about that.
48:41 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_01]: But that is also, that's a famous name.
48:44 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_01]: He, they're a pretty powerful family.
48:46 --> 48:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember reading or knowing that name in my Monticello days.
48:50 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
48:50 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But I thought that was interesting.
48:51 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And he'd to bring up the Hamilton of it all, but he was a he plays prominently in the musical as a friend of Hamilton.
49:02 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, maybe that's one of the reasons why I know it as well.
49:06 --> 49:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, apparently there are best friends on Washington staff.
49:11 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And Lawrence was an abad abolitionist.
49:18 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_00]: According to the Hamilton musical, because I have an actually studied is actual real biography.
49:26 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_01]: The final group of 40, I look at 40 feet where are the stories, burns is telling and how well to detail it.
49:36 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So the couple of things that I have here is the tragic Native American story in this episode.
49:42 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, my heart was broken.
49:45 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_01]: The all the campaigns that it went through, the burning, the killing, the scalping.
49:49 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I was reminded that scalps were actually sold.
49:53 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a financial incentive
49:56 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And to that all that, which is doubly horrible, and then it's just broke my heart.
50:01 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I just almost entiers, just watching, watching that part, those parts of that story.
50:08 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_01]: But it was really an atows you, right?
50:10 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a moving story, an important story.
50:13 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then as we were saying before, not part of the Revolutionary time period that I don't.
50:20 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's been known, but it hasn't been told in a mass market audience kind of way.
50:26 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
50:26 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
50:29 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And finally, it was interesting to see Britain kind of pivot.
50:34 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not, I thought it was a great kind of transitions that they use with the New England and the Middle colonies.
50:41 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_01]: They're done for three years.
50:43 --> 50:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's go south.
50:45 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_01]: and we're going to take the southern colonists and we're going to keep the colonies, which I didn't really appreciate.
50:52 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, well, that makes sense, right?
50:54 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Because they had some good raw products.
50:56 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:57 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
50:57 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, a material that they could really come from different climate.
51:01 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
51:01 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They've had they have Florida.
51:03 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a, you know, you have that continuity.
51:05 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're setting up this British new strategy that that really,
51:13 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_01]: that he did for, I think, the last episode as we get more into battles and bloody smart strategy on the British good, all things considered.
51:22 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
51:24 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And if they had, well, anyway, I'm not going to re-litigate the war.
51:27 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a military historian, but there's a
51:31 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_00]: there's a thought that occurs to me, which is they could have just held on to the south and just let the New England states just be New England, like what do you have?
51:38 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_00]: What's up there that you need?
51:39 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no, you know, the trade is incidental, the real economic flywheel is with cotton and tobacco and sugar.
51:49 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
51:54 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So, hmm.
51:57 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh
52:11 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And all these places were all these battles that we think about, conquered Lexington and Morris Town and Valley Forge and Pennsylvania, whatever George Washington.
52:21 --> 52:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But there were stuff going, there are forts all over the place.
52:24 --> 52:29 [SPEAKER_00]: There are people all over the place and then the global nature of it.
52:30 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And how much it pulled in the whole world into this war.
52:36 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, absolutely.
52:38 --> 52:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those things that
52:41 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I also didn't appreciate how many forts were put up throughout the colonies.
52:45 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they showed them maps later on in the episode and like, read what they're forced to say, like, wow, that did they?
52:51 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dang, yeah, it's a, it's a great story.
52:56 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, even though maybe in China or Japan or nations and people's there aren't necessarily directly engaged in the war or in the strategy that's happening in the Atlantic, that's still drawing and still affecting them in ways that are hard, maybe to see directly,
53:24 --> 53:32 [SPEAKER_00]: the needing of supplies and materials to bolster, you know, because, well, this is all being drained over here.
53:33 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We still need to, we need to generate more over there.
53:35 --> 53:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a, you know, keep our economic direction going.
53:40 --> 53:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, you still got to run your country and run your empire.
53:45 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So you've got to pivot to a lot of different places.
53:48 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, can you imagine being in London and and bucking in power or whatever wherever they were at that time?
53:56 --> 54:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're looking at the entire world and thinking about, okay, I need to take these forces from here and go there, and then we need to make sure that production up for this is up and then because it's down over there, so there's a lot of complexity going on around the world at this time.
54:13 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have no...
54:15 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It takes three to six months to get a message one way.
54:18 --> 54:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to get a return answer.
54:20 --> 54:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that boat gets sunk in a storm or, you know, take a boat off course.
54:26 --> 54:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all kinds of things.
54:27 --> 54:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So.
54:28 --> 54:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you really get spoiled by mass communications and even the telegraph that I don't how they do.
54:35 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Now we can do, you know, when I talk to Isha or, you know, Alicia, you know, you're goodness.
54:42 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_00]: We have our, our host Alicia who's in Europe as well and we're constantly podcasting with people from around the world.
54:50 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
54:51 --> 54:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, well, I feel tired.
54:55 --> 54:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we, we have ended.
54:57 --> 55:01 [SPEAKER_00]: We have done a lot of podcasting this week and it's been a joy.
55:02 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm going to be shifting things tomorrow, so we'll just have to figure out if we can get an episode six in or if we save it, I'm going to be watching it as a family tonight.
55:13 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
55:14 --> 55:17 [SPEAKER_00]: and then you and I can just touch base and see where we go.
55:18 --> 55:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The seems like people are watching, but you know, probably watching at their own pace.
55:22 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, that's right.
55:23 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah.
55:24 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get something out as to everyone.
55:26 --> 55:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for hanging out with us.
55:29 --> 55:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're just a couple of, a couple of guys talking and reflecting.
55:33 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully it's added something to your conversations.
55:36 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_00]: As always, if you appreciate what we do, and you have some kind of words, we love to have those on the Apple Podcast reviews.
55:46 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are so moved to want to subscribe, it helps us with our operations, and make sure that we can keep doing this Patreon or supercast.
55:54 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a link in the show notes.
55:56 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Go check out all of our affiliates.
55:58 --> 56:02 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are a Discord server booster, thank you so much for
56:02 --> 56:05 [SPEAKER_00]: helping to create a space for our community to gather.
56:05 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're a subscriber at any level, especially to all of our lawmakers, thank you all so very much.
56:13 --> 56:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Brian, for all the work that you do in the community.
56:15 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You're one of our mods, you're a law master, you're an editor, and chief, you're going to do a lot.
56:19 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:21 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to do a lot, so hopefully we haven't shouldered you with too much, but you seem to always like to participate.
56:27 --> 56:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems to be adding something for you, so.
56:29 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it sure does.
56:30 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope it's for a group.
56:31 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:32 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So all right, everybody.
56:34 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you soon, Brian.
56:35 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you again so much.
56:36 --> 56:37 [SPEAKER_00]: This has been a really enjoyable week.
56:37 --> 56:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll see about the final episode and then the wrap-up podcast before too long.
56:44 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Sounds good.
56:45 --> 56:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The Laura Hounds podcast is produced and published by the Laura Hounds.
56:48 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You can send questions and comments to Laurahounds at thewarhounds.com.
56:53 --> 56:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Get AdTree access to all Laura Hounds podcasts on Patreon or Supercast and connect with us on BlueSky and Join us on our Discord server.
56:59 --> 57:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Links for everything are in the link tree in the show notes of this episode.
57:03 --> 57:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Any opinions that stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
57:10 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening!