The Book Nook - E07 - Tehanu Part 2

[00:00:00] Welcome to Book Nook, where the Lorehounds are your guides to the archipelago of Earthsea. I'm David. And I'm Marilyn. And this is Part 2 of our coverage of the fourth book of the Earthsea series, Tehanu by Ursula K. Le Guin.

[00:00:28] In this podcast we're going to discuss chapters 7 through 10 and we've got one more episode to finish the book which will come out conceivably next month. We will start off with some spoiler-free conversation about our thoughts on this section in general.

[00:00:45] Following a quick break, we will move into a deeper conversation about the plot and major themes presented. While we enjoy discussing the book amongst ourselves, we also want to hear from you.

[00:00:55] Send us an email to book at the lorehounds dot com or visit us at our website and there you can use the contact form or voicemail feature. We've also got a discord server. We really have a fun and welcoming community and a dedicated channel for the Earthsea conversations.

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[00:01:38] Now you probably have noticed that John is not with us tonight. He had some unexpected family stuff and I assume that he will be back with us for the last part of the Tehanu book.

[00:01:53] Other than that, let's quickly recap where we are with the Earthsea and our coverage plans. So far we have read the first three books in the trilogy, Wizard of Earthsea, The Tombs of Atuan and The Furthest Shore.

[00:02:11] So we're in the middle of Tehanu which is the fourth book which was written in 1990 and she had written the first three books in 68, 71 and 72. So there's a big jump, a big gap. Yes there is. And so we're going to...

[00:02:27] It is a big departure too from the original stories and so there's a lot to talk about and so we've covered all of those so you can go back and find those podcasts if you want.

[00:02:38] And we talked a lot about the different structure and writing style and what this book Tehanu is, how it's different from the original. So I would encourage you to go back to that one too because there's some, I think some

[00:02:52] good perspective if you're coming from the original trilogy and you're thinking, oh hey let's go. We're going back to Earthsea. There's a big change in Tehanu that's a really important change and I think it helps folks to contextualize that if you've got that point of view.

[00:03:10] That said, we're going to be covering Tales from Earthsea which was written in 2001 and The Other Wind which is also a 2001 book. We're not sure, it'll probably be in the new year sometime.

[00:03:22] We're going to get through December and January and then we'll probably pick it up from there. Yes, I think so. Yeah. Great. So Marilyn, what are your thoughts from this second part of Tehanu, chapter 7 through 10? I think these are good markers too, the 1 through 6 and 7 through 10.

[00:03:43] They definitely feel like natural internal structural things happening as well. So they're good places to break. Yes, I feel as though last time we had finished with the end of Act 1. Yeah, that's a good way to put it, Acts.

[00:03:59] So now we're in Act 2 and we're going to get through most of Act 2 tonight. The pivot chapter, Chapter 11, kind of finishes up Act 2 and starts Act 3. And I can't wait to get to it.

[00:04:12] But it was so good and so juicy and so full of stuff I said, no, we can't possibly cram this into this. We have to start off the next session with that. Right, start fresh. Yeah, I had to restrain myself from just continuing on into Chapter 11. Yes, yes.

[00:04:25] I held myself back. Good for you. Yeah, I can. Well, I don't know if I could have passed that test when I was a kid. But you know when they put a cookie out and they say if you wait however long, you'll get two as opposed to one.

[00:04:39] Right, right, right. Delayed gratification. Yeah, I think I finally learned that lesson. How old was I when I learned it? Yeah, so we've been introduced to all the major characters by now. And now it's time to learn about them, both friends and foes, and to learn more about

[00:04:55] them. We even get to see one major character that hasn't visited Gaunt until now. So that's going to be fun. And I particularly enjoy that we get to see some more of Therru.

[00:05:06] She was still pretty much wrapped up in herself for the first couple of chapters, but now she's starting to open up and we're beginning to see more of her point of view and how she reacts to things. And I'm glad for that. It's very interesting.

[00:05:22] We also learn the answer to one longstanding mystery that goes all the way back to a Wizard of Earthsy. So that'll be fun to finally reveal. And we get deeper into the ideas about gender and power.

[00:05:36] Right, which this book really is, as I said before, very different from the first three, which were very traditional. Not traditional, but you know, they're strong in the coming of age story, the call to, you know, the hero's call to action, all of that stuff.

[00:05:56] And this is a very different point of view. It moves the camera into an entirely different set of characters and focus. And it is really, I can understand why when I did pick up this book in the mid 90s, and

[00:06:11] I was excited to read, oh, let's go back to Earthsy. It's like, nope, because she really does take on some difficult issues head on. Yes, she does. In this. And if I can see why at that time when I wasn't prepared for that and my expectation was different,

[00:06:31] why I bounced off it at that time. For sure. And wasn't prepared for what she was trying to explain to me. Right. I couldn't hear her. Just like, and that comes up in this story is people who can't hear each other. Yes.

[00:06:48] Because they're not present in the moment with the other person. Yeah, she describes it as looking at the story from underneath. That's one of the ways she talks about it. And she also is clear that what she is doing is writing the fantasy from the perspective

[00:07:03] of ordinary people. Right, right. Not from the perspective of the heroes and the villains necessarily. And we're so, at least me personally, I can speak for myself. I'm so trained on the point of view of the hero and the point of view of the young princeling

[00:07:22] who's been in secret and suddenly is, oh, you know, we're all heroes of our own stories and our media caters to that. So if you're suddenly confronted with issues of gender and of violence and of injustice and of loss, that's not the heroic entertainment that we're used to.

[00:07:47] That's not the superhero winning the battle at the end of the day. So for whatever minor troubles that they have to go through to get to that point, this starts on the ground right there from ordinary people point of view.

[00:08:03] Right, we're not accustomed to widows being heroes or children being heroes or witches standing in for good people who do good things and actually bring healing. All of those things are, and particularly it's difficult I think from the perspective of 2023 to be looking back to 1990.

[00:08:23] That's a long time. And particularly in the history of gender relations and understanding of gender, a lot developed and changed. So even though the 1990 book that she came out with was a massive change from 20 years before, we are now even further along.

[00:08:42] And we have to keep that in mind too. I can particularly remember that those early to mid 90s, it was a big conversation, at least where I lived in Seattle and going to community college up at Seattle Central

[00:08:57] Community College and Capitol Hill, which is a vibrant urban neighborhood. A lot's changed to what it is now, but back then that certainly was a big place. And so yeah, questions of gender and of identity and of rights and responsibilities were being

[00:09:18] questioned and is it okay to hold the door open for somebody? All of these questions. And it was really a confusing time for me. I remember as a young man going, oh, everything that society has told me and the way that things were structured suddenly is altering.

[00:09:35] And I don't know what's going on and how to deal with this. And then so I got to read this book that I was like, oh, I can read something that I can pick it up. It's like no, no. A comfort book and not even there.

[00:09:49] I feel you, David. I get it. Yeah. But I think that's an important part that this book plays in turning that wheel, right? Yes. And moving our consciousness and our attention out of old modalities and into different

[00:10:07] ways of thinking about things so that we can try to seek more justice. And as someone who lived through the 60s and the 70s and the 80s and the 90s and the noughties and the teens and now the 20s, I can see the cyclical nature of it.

[00:10:23] And as an historian, I can also see the cycles that came before it. So the fact of change is not new. It's how it's changing and who gets to be part of that conversation. Right.

[00:10:37] And so if you are not part of it, then suddenly you're confused about whether or not you should hold door. Right. But what was fermenting now in this time was men were starting to have conversations. Right. And I remember- As well in separate groups.

[00:10:51] And that's what Iron John was about. Yes. Yes. Fire in the belly and all those kinds of things, which was necessary before the different genders could come together and say, okay, we've both recognized some things. Now how do we come together and move forward?

[00:11:08] And it gets rocky sometimes, but it's good work. And it's all within a modern context because it's not like gender hadn't been dealt with before and worked on in different cultures in prior times. The Greeks, I'm just thinking from a Western civ standpoint. Sure.

[00:11:24] You know, Roman and Greek attitudes about gender and gender identity. Or I think there might be some material to look back towards in terms of Native American culture and multiple gender identities being available. Yes.

[00:11:40] Where sort of post World War II, a lot of that seems to have been scrubbed. A lot of that has been altered or become inaccessible. I don't mean to say we're too far off here, but I remember when we were trying to understand

[00:11:59] more about breastfeeding when our daughter was born and learning all of that stuff and there's just a lack of knowledge because at some point, certain cultural imperatives came in and cut things off and bifurcated and said, before is not something that we're talking about.

[00:12:19] We're going forward from here now. And so those oral traditions and family traditions and wide cultural practices just got scrubbed. And I think when we talk about, and I have not studied gender from an academic or historical

[00:12:37] standpoint, I'm just sort of a person I could just imagine that there's probably a whole world of stuff that the gender studies folks have access to about the construct of gender. Right. That we just are void of in a modern context. Well, you used the word scrubbed.

[00:12:56] And as an historian, I can tell you that there are plenty of stories from way back of bi-gendered human beings operating in the 1700s. Right. Yeah. Or women dressing as men or, and people are starting to uncover those stories.

[00:13:15] I suspect that the boom came down probably in the 1950s. Yes. Yeah. And we've slowly been coming back from that ever since as it were and moving forward. And now, you know, developing what to us are new ideas. Exactly. Right.

[00:13:31] It might've been happened, you know, this, the wheel might've turned three or four times like this. That's right. But we're living in the here and now. Right. And so for us, it feels new and fresh and different. Can I say from our last episode? Yeah.

[00:13:43] One of the things I loved the most was hearing you and John talking about how you probably changed more diapers than your fathers ever even saw. Right. That's just a perfect exemplar of the kind of thing we're talking about. Right.

[00:14:00] And I think too, that's why literature is important and reading literature together and talking about it together, even though we're kind of this weird, uh, podcasting is, is a few to many, I guess, model of the way that we're broadcasting because we're having

[00:14:22] a few of us are having a conversation, but we're broadcasting this out to many. Right. And in so creating this sort of parasocial relationship for the conversation and as a listener of many podcasts, that's what it's also very important to me because I get news

[00:14:37] that way I get to understand our other important issues that are happening. And so being able to, uh, read a book and a series that Ursula K. Le Guin wrote and think about it and talk about it and share these thoughts and experiences is so important to

[00:14:57] that unscrubbing or, you know, of bringing back to life or, or I don't know if these are the right words to describe it because the information's there. Right. It's just become inaccessible for whatever reason. And it's through these kinds of conversations that it can become accessible again. Right.

[00:15:18] We never bothered to ask the question because we never knew. That we didn't know what we didn't know. We asked and we didn't know what we didn't know. Yeah. And I love the fact that with the medium of podcasting, I have the privilege of listening

[00:15:34] in to conversations with people who I will never meet, whose life experiences I will never have. Right. And their generosity of being willing to put that out to the world is something I can benefit from.

[00:15:49] At the same time, we also form communities, you know, we, the wonderful community that we have on the discord channels, not just with Ursi, but with all the different things we're talking about. Right. Or the Prancing Pony podcast community that I'm also a part of. Right.

[00:16:07] This is, it's a new way of relating, but I think it's a very potent one because it takes us outside of our own narrower experience and introduces us to that wider world. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very interesting experience to be in this place.

[00:16:25] But anyway, back to the story. Yes. Let me just say that for those people who are thinking, oh no, I really want to carry on with this. Let me just say there is some sailing in this section of the book.

[00:16:36] We do get to sail on a really wonderful ship. Well, and that's- And recover. Yeah. I was going to say that this chapter, these chapters seven through 10 really also felt like the storm clouds gathering.

[00:16:51] And as you said, we've got characters, we've got some people in place, some things are starting to happen. And so again, it just feels like we're building and building. And so I'm waiting for, and I believe in like chapter eight where there was some, well, no,

[00:17:10] it's chapter 10 even. It was a, there was some drama and tension happening with- Absolutely chapter 10. You know, that was sort of, you know, bone chilling, you know, chilling to the bone kind of stuff. Yes.

[00:17:21] And so there is excitement and adventure yet to come, I think in this story. So there was- And we learn a little bit more about the politics of Gaunt and of Roque and of Havner. Yeah. Which is really interesting because we're microcosming on Gaunt, but yet there's so

[00:17:39] much going on there. There was one thing too I wanted to mention and what we can talk about it later, besides all this foreshadowing that's going on, there was a really interesting parallel to Tolkien and there's parts of this that reminded me of the scouring of the Shire.

[00:17:59] Say more. I can't without spoiling. Okay. So I want to wait until after the break, but we'll definitely going to talk about it. But there was this interesting, and it goes into this question of justice and who embodies

[00:18:09] justice and how is justice, how do we bring justice about? And how do we bring it down? I don't like those directions, but that's how people talk about it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Down, quote unquote, to the quote unquote common person.

[00:18:25] How do we get it out throughout society to all these places, all the nooks and crannies and all the little valleys and hilltops? From the center of the world, which is in Havner to the farthest shore. Yeah. To the Gauntish, to the goat herders of Gaunt. So.

[00:18:45] Who are often known as pirates. Right. And are near the Kargish lands, right? So that they've also experienced. They not only are they mildly piratical, but they're also victim of reaving. In fact, that's how we first really met Ged's power. Exactly.

[00:19:05] In the very first book when he had no training or anything of that nature and was a young teen. And he brought down the fog. And still managed to bring down the fog, which helped this small village of farmers and sheep

[00:19:17] herders and maybe pirates defeat a Kargish war band. Right. With pitchforks and so forth. Great. Well, let's take a quick break. And then when we get back, we will do a little synopsis. We'll talk about what we previously covered.

[00:19:33] And then we're going to break these two chapters, these three chapters into two parts. And we're going to talk in and around the themes of those things. So we'll be right back.

[00:20:18] And we're back. All right, Marilyn, let's move into talking quickly about what happened last time. And then we'll go into the two parts of the story setup that we have this time around.

[00:21:04] So previously, the former Archmage of Earthsea, Ged was flown on the back of a dragon to his home island of Gaunt, where he was met by Tenar, the young woman that he brought out of the labyrinth and who helped him to restore the ring of Elpharan.

[00:21:22] I'm not sure how, where's the syllaba? I would say Elpharan. Elpharan, okay. Ged has lost all of his magic through sacrificing it to save the world from an evil wizard who,

[00:21:33] promising an end to death, had made a hole in the world that let all the magic and life drain out. Tenar, now a widow, has a farm on Gaunt and has adopted a horribly abused child.

[00:21:45] They all meet at the house of Ogion, the old wizard who had given Ged his first training. So yeah, that's basically the setup for one through six. It was very differently paced from the original books.

[00:22:01] And like you said, we had to sort of bring the camera around and re-center ourselves. Right. So after Ged comes and he... Well, here, why don't you set us up for the first part of these chapters? Sure.

[00:22:18] And the one piece that I omitted from the previously on was the fact that Tenar was called to Ogion's house because Ogion was dying. Right, right. And she gets there and tends to him through his death.

[00:22:32] You know, one thing just quickly to go back, and I was thinking about this when I was reading the chapters. Sure. Whenever they were referring to Ogion and his naming, that in death you are referred to as your true name. Yes. Not your used name. Yes.

[00:22:50] And I just find it such a really interesting little construct and a beautiful bit of world building that she does with that. So you can speak somebody's true name all you want when they're no longer here.

[00:23:03] Because they're no longer susceptible to any kind of misuse you might make of it. Right, yeah. But it's nice to be able then to think of and refer to that person in their true form as opposed to the, you know... Yes.

[00:23:18] And it's sort of a reaching to their essence or to their memory. Mm-hmm. I believe there's a phrase of, you know, if somebody's passed, may their memory be a blessing to you. Right, right. And in that way, if I can know them in their true name sense,

[00:23:37] their memory is more of a blessing in that regard. Because there's no more veil, but it's truth that, you know, there's some sort of connection to who they were as opposed to who they were superficially. Yeah, and maybe it is something of a comfort

[00:23:54] and a blessing to have that deeper connection now. Yeah. Even though they are no longer a part of your physical life. Exactly. You now know how to truly call them. And that was the most intimate gift that somebody could give to anybody else. Yes.

[00:24:09] Was the knowledge of their true name. Because it was also dangerous to know. It was names have power in RIC. And I think that hasn't changed. No. Between then and now. So what was O'Gann's house is now IHAL's house. Right, yes.

[00:24:24] Maybe we can remember to call him IHAL from now on. Right, yeah, yeah. That's a good... I don't know if that's going to happen because I see in our summation of this next section, I say, word comes of a ship from Havnor in Gauntport.

[00:24:40] Ooh, you know what we should do before you read this next synopsis? This is final warning. Spoilers. We're moving into full spoiler territory for chapters seven through 10 of the book Tehane. So, okay, take it away. Yes, okay. All bets are off.

[00:24:52] If you haven't read it yet, stop now and come back when you have. That's right. So, word comes of a ship from Havnor in Gauntport. Ged panics at the news and decides to leave Ogien, now IHAL's house, to go to work on Tanar's farm.

[00:25:09] Tanar greets the king's messengers from the ship with frog's legs and Draedi's wine from the dragon year, but will not help them find Ged. Auntie Moss, a witch with a lively past, helps Tanar to understand why she could feel love for Ged, but not desire.

[00:25:28] All wizards put spells on themselves to eliminate sexual desire in themselves and in all who see them, in order to be able to wield their power. Such a practice, though, isn't necessary for witches. So, this whole section and this conversation that Tanar and Auntie Moss have,

[00:25:55] I had to reread it several times and I still don't think I even had the full meaning of it until you just summarized it. I know, I know, I know! Mind blown. Yep, yep, yep, yep. She spells it out explicitly in her essay or essay revision.

[00:26:14] Okay, yeah, which I have not read, so... Yeah, but the way she presents it in conversation, you're supposed to realize that when Tanar... Oh, Moss listened and nodded at the words of wisdom, but after a slight pause, she said,

[00:26:28] it's a queer thing for an old man to be a boy of 15, no doubt. Yes! Yeah, I was... What does that mean? Yeah, what does that mean? But Tanar figures it out. Right. With a great many thoughts suddenly coming into her mind at once.

[00:26:42] That's why, she said, that's why I never... Right, had, yeah. After quite a long silence, she says, do they, do wizards, is it a spell? And Moss says, well, what else would it be? Of course it's a spell, you know? Sometimes I'll tell you it's a trade-off,

[00:27:01] that's like a marriage turned backwards, but to me, that's got a wrong sound to it, like dealing with the old powers more than what a true witch deals with. And the old mage, he told me they do no such thing. Though I've known some women,

[00:27:14] witches who do it and come to no harm by it. So there again, you know, the differentiating of, you know, so-called masculine and feminine power, or how men and women have been gendered. Right. To believe in and to use an experience power. And Tanaj says, but why?

[00:27:31] But why did I never think... The witch laughed aloud. Because that's the power of them, dearie. You don't think, you can't. And nor do they, once they've set their spell, how could they? Given their power. It wouldn't do, wouldn't do, it wouldn't do.

[00:27:48] You don't get without you give as much. That's true for all, surely. So this is the great spell that Ursula K. Le Guin associates with the gender relations. Right. Right? And that the wizards do a spell of celibacy in some ways,

[00:28:18] and remove themselves from the sexual realm for... Yeah, it's like they just flick a switch and they're no longer conscious of any kind of sexual attraction or feeling or anything of that sort. There is love, there is tenderness. Sure. Intimacy, friendship.

[00:28:39] In the second book, he says to her, you know, she says, will you stay with me? And he says, I can stay for a little while, but I can't stay forever. But if you need me, call me. Right.

[00:28:50] I will come to you from the end of the earth. Right. Right. And she reflects on the times when she has seen and felt tender towards him. And it's kind of startled to remember at one point when he first comes back and is still

[00:29:04] unconscious, didn't I ever kiss him? Mm-hmm. Sure, I kissed him in the boat. I mean, sure, you know, but that's the power of the spell. Right. Right? Whether it's sexism or this other thing. And she never deals with that in the books. She never confronts that head on.

[00:29:23] In the first three books. That's right. It's never talked about when Ged is at Roke or anything. And the only time that there is any sort of hint of a relationship is in the second book.

[00:29:36] And even that is just these couple of, couple, two, three scenes at most maybe. Well, see both you and David were also talking in the first book about, excuse me, you and John. It's fine. Hello. Hi, you're David. Nice to meet you.

[00:29:51] We're just a disembodied voice at the end of a microphone. There we go. I don't even see your face. Wrong. I do see his face and I enjoy it very much. We do do video for our conversations.

[00:30:02] In the first book, both of you detected a certain amount of interest between Ged and his friend's sister, Yarrow. Yes. And a couple of times have said, oh, I think there was something there or whatever. And I'm sitting here thinking, oh, okay. Right. With Vetch's sister. Yeah.

[00:30:25] Vetch's little sister. But Le Guin points out consonance, abstinence, denial of relationship in the realm of male power. There is no interdependence of men with women. Manhood according to Sigmund Freud, Robert Bly and the hero tale is obtained and validated by the man's independence from women.

[00:30:47] Connection is severed. The man's heroic relation to women is limited to the artificial code of chivalry, which involves the adoration of a woman shaped object. Women in that world are non-people dehumanized by a beautiful, worshipful spell.

[00:31:04] A spell that may be seen to come up from the other side is a curse. And she points out that you see this world and it's not a fantasy kingdom. It's an army. It's the stock exchange. Every corporate boardroom. It's in our politics. It's in English literature.

[00:31:25] It's the world I lived in when I wrote the first three books of Ursi. I lived under the spell, the curse. Most of us did. Most of us do. Most of the time.

[00:31:36] The myth of man alone or alone with his God at the center on the top is a very old, very powerful myth. It rules us still. But thanks to the revision of gender called feminism, we can see the myth as a myth,

[00:31:51] a construct which may be changed, an idea which may be rethought, made more true, more honest. But she also points out that a rule may be unjust, but its servants may still be just that at the university Virginia Woolf couldn't enter, Tolkien taught.

[00:32:11] The mages of Roke, honest and just men trying to use their power mindfully, keeping equal equilibrium according to their lights. So it's too simplistic to say, oh, evil men with women, you know, abuse from, you know,

[00:32:27] within a system, any system, there can still be some concept of justice and some concept of good and bad behavior. Right. Right. But it's the power of the spell that you don't even think about it. It's just quote unquote, the way it is.

[00:32:47] And I love the way Le Guin realizes this dynamic and encapsulates it in a magical system. Right. Right, right, right. And makes it into a spell which is so potent and its potency is demonstrated by the fact that you never think about it. Right. Right.

[00:33:06] And when Dinar has that thought, oh gosh, we never even kissed him. How much did we even touch? You know, that she becomes aware. She starts to become aware that there is this spell in place.

[00:33:25] And then it's interesting later in the later parts of this group of chapters when Aspen tries to curse her and the way that that curse takes on its embodiment, which is the a kind of inner monologue that is. Yes. A negative, internally tearing oneself down.

[00:33:52] Oh, I'm not worried, you know, all of these negative thoughts, which we all possess. And we try to learn to master, right? There's a inner monologue that's always questioning our ourselves and our worth and our value and all of that kind of stuff.

[00:34:07] And we have to learn it for a voice and we have to learn how to manage that voice. But anyway, that's a whole separate thing. Sorry, I'm getting a little digressing. But just to think about this question of gender and gender norms as this spell that we don't

[00:34:25] even see. And then part of the spell that a man wizard, a male wizard levies against her is to try to box her back down into a small space. Yes. To make her feel less than she feels of herself. To feel shame. Yeah. And self-loathing. Right.

[00:34:47] And the only way I can heal myself is to kill myself in effect. Right. She uses the image of burning. There's a lot of images of burning in this book. There are. Let's be clear about that. Good stuff and not so good stuff.

[00:35:00] And there's a lot of draconic stuff being seeded all throughout this. We will talk about this too. Yeah. But you see the other side of the spell is that witches don't have to do this. Witches, they're sexual and that's fine. It doesn't affect their magic or their power.

[00:35:18] Right. Sometimes it enhances it. Some witches choose abstinence and solitude and all that. And Tanar doesn't understand this and is surprised when Ma says, no, I didn't have to give up any of my power whenever I had a man.

[00:35:36] And Tanar says, but you said you don't get unless you give. Is it different then for men and women? What is a different theory? I don't know, said Tanar. It seems to me we make up most of the differences and then complain about them.

[00:35:51] I don't see why the art magic, why power should be different for a man witch and a woman witch unless the power itself is different or the art. And then that's when Ma gets into her essentialism about the fir tree and the

[00:36:07] bramble and it's always different for men and women because that's what she's been gendered into believing. Right. Right. But that's a very important observation from the part of Tanar. I think we make up the differences and then complain about them. Right. Right.

[00:36:27] Okay, well, let's move on to part two of this section of chapters. And I think there's going to be a lot more for us to pick up from in here because this is really

[00:36:36] where a lot of the drama starts to take place and we can look at some of the issues and themes through the story action. So. Yes. In the village, Tanar meets with old Fan the Weaver who long ago rented her a cottage and

[00:36:54] watched over her until she left Eihal for the Middle Valley. He shows her a fan which mingles the images of people on one side and dragons on the other. On returning to Eihal's house, she learns that one of Therru's abusers had been there

[00:37:11] to Therru's great terror and was working in the hayfields of the Lord of Re Albae. Tanar goes to warn them of Hande's behavior, but she's confronted by the Lord's wizard, Aspen, who insults and threatens her for being a woman.

[00:37:26] Tanar is saved from his curse by the appearance of two of the courtiers from Havnorth who do her honor and save her from being cursed, but then return amicably to the castle with the wizard.

[00:37:38] A few days later, after the courtiers are gone, Aspen curses Tanar from a distance, blocking her ability to speak or think in Hardik. She uses Kargish instead and manages to leave with Therru to the port town

[00:37:53] where they encounter Therru's abuser who actually touches her before they are rescued by King Lebannen, who arrived on that ship. He takes them in and on their voyage back to the port of Tanar's home in the Middle Valley,

[00:38:08] they discuss the conundrum of no archmaid and the related words, a woman on Gaunt. King Lebannen says he will not allow anyone to come looking for Ged again. Therru can take no joy in the voyage, but Tanar hopes the king might one day visit them on Oak Farm.

[00:38:29] So this part of the story was really shocking in some ways, and it goes back to that idea of heroic fantasy and the fate of the world, the state, whatever. But what we're dealing with is misogyny and violence against women and violence against

[00:38:56] children, and she's not veering off from it. She's not just hinting at it, but she's sticking it right there in the center of the story. And it's confronting and it's challenging to see.

[00:39:15] From the point of view of Tanar, to feel that fear and that sickening feeling that you're powerless. That she, as a woman, has no voice in seeking justice. And it's only by whatever, the fates, the wheel weaves, I don't know, however you want to,

[00:39:39] Ara Rugla, whatever, that she meets the king on the dock and he takes her in. 99.99% of the other times, that's not happening. And Handy and his ilk win. You know, or it just gets so ugly and convoluted that they still win. And so this question of...

[00:40:05] And it was really interesting to hear Tanar think and speak about being eaten and fear and feeding and being hungry, and we're not going to feed him, we're going to starve him. But yet, that's a lot of great thought and a way to sort of psychologically bolster yourself.

[00:40:26] But then the reality is that when he's able to touch Tanar, it shatters a year's worth of work that she was doing to rehabilitate, to heal, to work with the healing of Therru. By a touch, by one touch, right? All gone. Yeah.

[00:40:48] And one of the things that I don't think she addresses as openly as she might is Tanar had promised Therru that he will never touch you again. And even the first time I read the book, I thought, oh, you can't do that. Don't make those promises.

[00:41:11] You cannot make that promise to her. Yeah. And sure enough, it's broken. And so now you have a whole other series of problems to confront. How do you explain? And how does Tanar even explain to herself why she ran, why she was so afraid?

[00:41:35] There were people over the deck, what could he do to us? But we are trained to exactly the response that Tanar made. We are gendered into it. And again, this is the strength of the spell.

[00:41:52] You have a woman who was a priestess of the dark ones and who is a wife and mother and who knows about care and all these, and is Tanar of the ring. She's literally famous throughout the islands. Right. And she looks different from everybody else.

[00:42:10] And yet she's powerless in face of the sociological structures that give the man power over his wife and children, property. Right. And even granted that she had been under a spell, she knew that it had cleared the further away she got from Re Albi. So that was fine.

[00:42:33] Did he place the spell on the house or on her? I would say the spell was placed on her, but it was triggered in the house. Okay. And the closer she gets to the castle, the stronger the spell becomes. Right. Yeah. Right. That's my interpretation of it.

[00:42:52] I'm not sure what Lagan would have said. Okay. Anyway. But it's the heartbreaking knowledge that every parent has to face at some point. How do you tell your child? Right. I will keep you as safe as I can. Not, I will never let you be hurt.

[00:43:10] That's just, you can't say that. It's impossible. Right. You cannot say that. Right. No. As much as you want to. Yeah. And it breaks my heart to think about. Right. No. And that's part of our job as parents is to prepare our children for the world.

[00:43:23] And at some point you have to start having some very real conversations with them about what the world is. Mm-hmm. And I think that's really interesting when Therru is playing with the little bone figurines

[00:43:36] and she gets the dolphin and this sense of world and magic that children have with their stuffed animals and toys and stuff. I was walking to school today for a school pickup and a father and, I must've been a kindergartner, were walking up the hill.

[00:43:58] And the little girl had this black stuffed animal, looked like a cat, maybe a cat-like creature or something like that. And for her, that was her world as she's walking. Yes. And all that was just, all that was there for her was holding on to this little stuffed

[00:44:16] creature. I mean, my good Lord, just directly above me, we have so many stuffed animals in my daughter's room that populate her world. It's interesting because as she's getting older, they have less and less potency because

[00:44:32] the mind starts to widen out and can take in the world in bigger and bigger bites. But yeah, those little talismans are so, yeah, the world isn't there for them in that way. They can't hear or see beyond certain things.

[00:44:49] At the same time, I think toys represent the beginning steps toward understanding that you do have agency. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. You are in control of the world of the bone people. And that's why she was showing us with that, I think, in that scene. I think so. Yeah.

[00:45:03] I think so. And Tanar is quite clear that this is a mysterious world to her, but to Therru, there's a sense of endless possibility. Yes. It's living. Yeah. And when we- That she is in charge of for once. Exactly. Yeah.

[00:45:21] Everything else in the world, she feels she has no control over. But this is where she can start to begin to learn what it is to express agency herself. Right. Right. And for somebody who had their agency horrifically abused and taken away,

[00:45:39] and her autonomy and her agency and her bodily integrity so grossly violated. And trust completely shattered. Right. That's probably- By the people that you're supposed to be trusting. Exactly. I think that's probably the single biggest magic, for lack of a better word,

[00:45:57] that Tanar was able to accomplish was to teach Therru that she could trust her. Right. That she would be trustworthy. But then along comes the gender system. Right. Along with some really evil magic. And it all snaps. Can I read one of my favorite moments

[00:46:19] that happens prior to this moment? Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is when she first encounters Aspen in person. Yeah. And he is talking to her. Did you think I did not know you for a witch? When I saw that foul imp that clings to you,

[00:46:36] do you think I did not know how it was begotten and for what purposes? The band did well who tried to destroy that creature, but the job should be completed. You defied me once across the body of the old wizard, and I forbore to punish you then,

[00:46:50] for his sake and in the presence of others. But now you've come too far, and I warn you, woman, I will not have you set foot on this domain. And if you cross my will or dare so much as speak to me again,

[00:47:03] I will have you driven from Re Albi and off the Overfell with the dogs at your heels. Have you understood me? No, Tanar said. I have never understood men like you. That is the line I think that at some point in their lives,

[00:47:21] every single woman would have loved to have said to a man, but could not afford to. Right. Could not afford to. Right. Unless systems were different, but I kind of doubt that they would be because the... Even now, that would be a very difficult thing to speak out.

[00:47:38] Yes, it would. To be and still not be labeled hysterical or emotional or, you know, or, you know... Oh, just yeah, there's a whole raft of stuff that you could label somebody with that to diminish and to depower them. To demonstrate defiance is to invite punishment. Right. Right.

[00:48:01] And that's what she does there. And that's when she almost gets cursed by him out in the open. Right. But those two courtiers come along and, oh, dear, dear, no, we can't have this. Right. This won't do. This won't do.

[00:48:11] So he resorts to the hidden curses, you know? First, she tries from a distance and that she's able to deal with. Right. Or Arha is able to deal with. Right. But this next one, something in the room about the location far more potent.

[00:48:30] And I think that's a lot of what disempowers Tenar. Right. Because what more horrible thing can you think of than to not be able to think clearly? And I think of, you know, people who suffer from dementia and all that sort of thing.

[00:48:45] And, you know, this is the same sort of feeling of how can you be in the world without being able to think? But she has Kargish. She has Arha. She has... Right. Right. All of her former selves.

[00:49:00] And this is the moment when Arha steps forward and introduces her to Kargish. Right. And she manages to escape. So going back a little bit around what I mentioned before about the scouring of the Shire. Yes.

[00:49:19] And this idea of justice and how justice is embodied or brought forth. And, you know, with Handy and with Aspen, you know, here's Ogion's house, here's Gaunt. We've known this place as sort of a, you know, reasonable town. It's not...

[00:49:44] Realby, the manor has always been a little bit funky. There's something weird going on up there, but they kind of keep to themselves. And so... Let be. Let be. Yeah. And here we have, you know, beautiful vistas and, you know, looking down onto the port city

[00:49:58] and all of this sort of stuff. And yet we encounter it near the beginning when Tharu and Tanara are coming to Ogion's house and they encounter those three men on the road.

[00:50:13] And then with Aspen and Handy, that there is no justice or there is no justice available to people. Justice isn't accessible either in form or in function. And so in Tolkien, when it's Merry and Pippin go back, Mm-hmm. they find that the Shire is under siege, right?

[00:50:42] Even though the big battle has been fought, the Dark Lord's over, the Ring is destroyed. Yeah. That doesn't mean anything because there's still bad people out there. And they then are able to bring justice to the situation because they've fought and they face

[00:51:00] death and they have the moral strength to challenge the ruffians that have come into the Shire. Mm-hmm. But they're there because there is no justice, there is no king's justice. And so the whole idea in Earthsea here is with Lebannen is that there's a king restored

[00:51:22] and that they're going to bring justice to the world and to sort of set things in balance. But how do you do that? Yes. And how is that accomplished? And right now, in our modern context,

[00:51:37] just me paying attention to the news and just thinking about this idea of demagoguery versus institutional justice, right? Yeah. Where the law is embodied, it is codified. There may be high priests that you have to pay a lot of

[00:51:56] homage to, to be able to say the right incantations and make the correct protestations in front of the power centers. But it's accessible and it's codified and available to us. Mm-hmm. And so there's an institution that is made up of thousands and thousands of people to

[00:52:18] establish a neutral form of justice and have it. In this world, in Earthsea, we don't. It's embodied by the king. Right. And without a king, who is setting the scales? Who is able to embody justice? Mm-hmm.

[00:52:34] So it really feels like if you're somewhere here and somebody like Handy or these other ruffians or Aspen, they could do whatever they want. Yeah. Not only in a gender standpoint, but in any standpoint, because who is going to hold them

[00:52:56] to account? If they're more powerful than you or if they come in the night, that's it. You don't have access to any redress or defense or anything. You're powerless. Yeah. And so there is no justice there, right? There's no peace. There's no justice.

[00:53:17] Yeah. I really love that analogy with the scouring the shore. I'd never thought of that before. And there's a lot of parallels there. One thing I will point out is that Mary and Pippin come back as officers of the king. True. That's true. Messengers of the king.

[00:53:34] Right. They both are sworn into service for their- For their lord. Perspectives. Mm-hmm. And so they have some connection back to the system. Now, what that means when Gondor is hundreds of miles away, when they- Exactly. It means nothing.

[00:53:49] It means nothing in one sense, but because Mary and Pippin have been trained to take it on and ennobled to take it on, they are able to deal with the immediate situation. And then we assume

[00:54:02] afterwards, hobbits go back to their usual peace-loving ways. Le Guin is giving us a similar situation insofar as, yes, there hasn't been a king for years. So Aragorn's return is very much like Lebanon's rise to the throne, but they've had the wizards. Right.

[00:54:23] Roke has been the source of justice and the wizards serving throughout their communities. I suppose there's a parallel there too with the Jedi somehow. Yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. But the problem is Roke is in confusion. Right.

[00:54:38] Partly because of all the damage that's been done by the wizards who let open a hole in the world. And partly by the fact that they don't have an archmage anymore. They don't know how to

[00:54:46] get one or find one. They're all in confusion. All of these things are the result of this evil wizard trying to deny death and breaking a hole in the world and so on. And those are sort of the higher level. I don't like hierarchies again. Right, right, right.

[00:55:04] That's where it's placed. Those were the overt effects amongst the powerful, the ones who are expected to deliver justice. We're now also seeing the effects of that same damage done to everyday people. To common people who on the island of Gaunt never really had a

[00:55:29] whole lot of recourse to much of anything. They have Ogie and now Ihal, a wizard they could call upon at need. There was a wizard in the town of Re Albi. And now here's this wizard up in the

[00:55:47] castle. And there is something very wrong about this. But there's no recourse. Pirates are an open secret on Gaunt. It's their second biggest export. I can't remember what the first one was. Goat, yeah. Goat related products.

[00:56:07] Probably. But there is this sense of who is going to maintain the natural justice that a lot of philosophers and other people talk about. Exactly, right. With all these absences and these uncertainties. And again, the outcome of a fantasy style damage to the world event

[00:56:34] manifests in a small village on a small island in a small child. Which when I come to Le Guin and I'm reading what I want to read with her, one of the things that she does as a writer is scale things so they can be

[00:57:00] world spanning or very small. But I never lose a sense of intimacy with her world. No matter what's going on, on the back of a dragon or in the Patterner's Grove or

[00:57:16] on a little boat out on the water somewhere. Her writing always brings you this level of intimacy. And so she can take these big complex issues like celibacy and gender and power and magic

[00:57:32] and whatnot, justice. And she can just bring it right into this very... And in this story, Tejano so far, my experiences of it, the writing is less poetic in some ways. There was a magic around the first three books and those were very early in her writing days

[00:57:52] and a natural gift. And then over the course of time, so her writing style has changed. Mm-hmm. It's less fractal in nature is the way I want to describe it. Mm-hmm. It's more mundane, is not the way I want to say. It's just more grounded

[00:58:13] and more straightforward and just simply described. But yet the intimacy to these big issues is so still present in the everyday letting the goats out and going down to Auntie Moss's house. Right?

[00:58:33] And the images that you're using are exactly the words that she used to describe her process. Mm-hmm. That she got off the dragon of the familiar tropes and the hero story and things that she knew so well and she walked on her own two feet. Interesting.

[00:58:55] And so it was no longer sailing with the beige wind in your sails. Right. It was one foot in front of the other to walk a 15 mile trek. Right, right. From your house on the cliff down to the harbor. Right. And she stumbled on her words.

[00:59:12] Just like Tanar because the dragon would put winged words in your mouth. Right. But suddenly you are rejecting... It wasn't hers in a way. It was not hers. Right. Or it was only partly hers. Right. Well, she was acting in the play. She was... Under the spell.

[00:59:30] Yeah. She was working what had been given to her rather than inventing something of her own. And she did it so damn well. Of course she did. Of course she did. Amazing. And now she's inventing an entire new language. Right, right. Which is even more amazing. Right.

[00:59:46] And just remember one of the Ur-texts, one of the things we hear over and over and over is, all change. So that when you're talking about justice and restoring equilibrium and all these things, there's an interesting conversation on the boat.

[01:00:02] And I wanted to credit Davy Mack in particular on this because he sent us... He was talking in the Discord channel. Okay. He talks about the whole topic of ordinary fears. Yeah. So this is a conversation between the Wind Key, one of the nine mages of Roke,

[01:00:20] and Tanar and the King on the boat sailing back, bringing her and Therru back home. So the mage opens, That one whom the archmage and my lord defeated in the dry land that cob caused untold harm and ruin,

[01:00:38] We shall be repairing our art, healing our wizards and our wizardry for a long time yet. The mage said decisively. I wonder if there might be more to be done than repairing and healing, she said. Though that too, of course.

[01:00:54] But I wonder, could it be that one such as Cob could have such power because things were already altered? And that a change, a great change had been taking place, has taken place. And that it's because of that change that we have a king again in Earthsea?

[01:01:13] Perhaps a king rather than an archmage? The Wind Key looked at her as if he saw a very distant storm cloud on the uttermost horizon. He even raised his right hand and they hinted the first sketch of a windbinding spell and then lowered it again. He smiled.

[01:01:32] Don't be afraid, my lady, he said. Broke and the art magic will endure. Our treasure is well guarded. Tell Kelesin that, she said, suddenly unable to endure the utter unconsciousness of his disrespect. It made him stare, of course, he heard the dragon's name.

[01:01:51] But it did not make him hear her. How could he, who had never listened to a woman since his mother sang him his last cradle song, hear her? Indeed, said Lebanon, Kelesin came to Roke, which is said to be defended utterly from

[01:02:09] dragons and not through any spell of my lord's, for he had no magery then. But I don't think, Master Wind Key, that Lady Tenar was afraid for herself. The mage made an earnest effort to amend his offense. I am sorry, my lady, he said.

[01:02:27] I spoke as to an ordinary woman. She almost laughed. She could have shaken him. She said only indifferently, my fears are ordinary fears. It was no use. He could not hear her. But the young king was silent, listening. So what was Davy Mack's take on this?

[01:02:53] I don't have the text in front of me. Sure. No, no, we can just... We'll just keep going. The thing that struck out for me the most was his using the phrase ordinary fears and

[01:03:02] how much he appreciated the fact that this book talks about ordinary people doing ordinary things and having ordinary fears. And that this was a completely different view in this long tradition of fantasy literature and wizards and dragons and... Right, right, right. All these different things.

[01:03:24] We are now bringing in the ordinary people, the widows and the abused children and the goat herds and... You know what I was particularly taken aback by in this passage was when the Wynke says, oh, I'm sorry, my lady, I spoke as to an ordinary woman.

[01:03:44] What the hell are you doing speaking to ordinary people that way anyway? Where's your damn manners, right? Seriously. It's hierarchy, it's status. So the master Wynke, where here's the king, right? Who's he's out, he's amongst people, he's learning, he's listening.

[01:04:07] He's not so full of himself that he can't appreciate somebody else's point of view. He's only 18 years old. Right. And he's been to death and back. Yeah. And he was well brought up as a prince and a king. Right.

[01:04:24] The wizard has been taught all of his life that he is to be powerful and potent, the protector of the realm... And he's part of the... Maintainer of the equilibrium. He's part of this magic of being removed from his gender, but enforcing the gender norm and role.

[01:04:45] But also unable to imagine... Anything else. Anything else. And reaching back to the things he knows, as we all do. But unable to hear from a woman, even from a woman as famous as Tanada... Right. That things might be changing here.

[01:05:06] It may be that instead of restoring and repairing, you should be thinking about what has changed and what does that mean for us? What is so interesting that's just occurring to me now too, when she wrote The Tombs of Atuan as the second book in, what is it? 71.

[01:05:29] She had no idea that she was going to write Teanu in... Oh, Lord, no. 1990. Yet, yet, Chen Har, the Eaten One, the little girl in the labyrinth who brings the ring is the character in this book who is breaking...

[01:05:50] Who is the one who is breaking apart or challenging these structures. I wouldn't say breaking apart. She's just going, well, isn't there something else we can do? And then the mage is like, oh, oh.

[01:06:01] Every time she encounters a man of power, they get flustered by her because she's... Powerful. Powerful. Yes, she is a powerful woman. And they don't know what to do with it.

[01:06:13] They don't know what to do with it. But the wild thing is that her character here in this book, she had no idea that back then in 71 that this character was going to be the voice of this alternate perspective.

[01:06:29] And so in a way, Chen Har was in her in this cave, in this dark place, found her way out of the maze and into this other story where she could speak a bigger truth. Because when you are other, whatever your otherness consists of,

[01:06:48] you are outside a system and therefore you can observe it in a way that people inside the system cannot. Right. But this idea of the this fictional construct from 1971. Yes, yes, I know, I know.

[01:07:04] You know, coming around and that is her other point of view that she was able to use to examine the system. But she had no idea in 71 what she was doing, that this was going to be the result. And she had the courage to pick up on it.

[01:07:20] Yeah. To take what she had learned in those 20 years. Right. And go back and say, OK. There's a there's something here. There's a truth here. There's something here. And she didn't know what it was either.

[01:07:31] I don't want to say much more at this point because that's more the matter of the third third of the book. Sure. We'll be covering next time. But keep that in mind, all changed. OK. And what does that mean? Right. And teacher all right. Teacher all. Teacher all.

[01:07:49] Yep. Should we talk a little bit about Therru? Oh, yes. Let's talk about Therru. I just I love that she is now more of a person in her own right. And I think that's often true with children.

[01:08:04] I mean, you know better than I do because you have children, but that the developmental stage to the point where suddenly you realize, oh, my gosh, this is a person. Yes. With ideas and opinions and desires of their own.

[01:08:17] And the fact that Therru could even develop to that point is a more than minor miracle and a testimony to Tanar's power, which is not a power over. It's a power with and it's an empowerment and it's love.

[01:08:33] So Ursula writes again this week, I'm quoting her from this incredible essay, Ursi revisioned any of you who have the massive tome of all the stories, very last thing in the book. Do read it once you've read all of Tanar. And that path to Tohono. There it is.

[01:08:52] Too many names. Yes. Just like the FNLs, right? Right. Okay. So what what Le Guin says is there was the key to this book. Until I saw Therru until she chose me, there was no book. I couldn't see the story till I could look through her eyes.

[01:09:11] But which eye, the seeing or the blind? So I'll just drop that in there for people to. Okay. Contemplate. So on that, I'll grab a thread from there and tug on it a little bit. There's a lot of foreshadowing and seeding of sign and portent.

[01:09:35] Very draconic in some regards. But then there was a scene that struck me when Tanar is brushing her hair and the static sparks are flying out and Therru is seeing something. And on one level, you can simply go, oh, well, she's just a child and she's seeing something

[01:10:02] that's really cool, just like breathing life into her bone toys or playing whatever little games. But is she seeing more? Is she seeing as a person of power can see other people of power and to see their auras or whatever energies that they're connected to or giving off?

[01:10:26] And so it really, for me, was a, hmm, what's going on here sort of question. And then all this dragon stuff and whatnot. So, and again, I don't know. God, did I even finish Tehanu back in the 90s? I can't even remember. I don't even know what's coming.

[01:10:45] And so I'm just trying to pick up on the clues that are because she does do that. She lays out a bunch of little breadcrumbs that you can pick up for story stuff later. So I also thought it was interesting about the kestrel circling and hunting. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:11:04] And finally catching the vole. Right. Which has been ensnared by the spell. Yeah. Yeah. So, but anyway, yeah. So yeah. What's up with Therru and what's up with the dragon stuff and what's up with the woman of Gaunt?

[01:11:17] You know, there's a whole bunch of stuff she can weave there and I'm, you know. Well, here's the thing that sticks out for me the most in that scene. Therru was smiling and Tidnard did not know if she had ever seen the child smile before. Yeah.

[01:11:33] Therru reached out both her hands, the whole one in the burn, as if to touch and follow the flight of something around Tidnard's loose floating hair. The fire's all flying out, she repeated. And she laughed. That's extraordinary. Yeah. This is why I say she's becoming a person. Right.

[01:11:53] Actually seeing her. Right. She's having thoughts and opinions of her own. She's reacting to things. She's reacting joyfully to things. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. So, and Oghion, Ihal saw something in her. Yes. Just thinking about this, what you can hear from other people, if you're paying attention,

[01:12:24] what you can learn from them, like the king's listening. Yes. Master Winky can't hear. Right. What she's saying or what can you see? You know, if you have that gift of being able to see a person of power. He said, they will fear her.

[01:12:42] And he said, teach her all, not broke. I don't know what he meant. How can I know? If I had stayed here with him, I might know. I might be able to teach her. But I thought Ged will come. He'll know.

[01:12:55] He'll know what to teach her, what she needs to know. My wronged one. I do not know. He said, speaking very low, I saw in the child. I see only the wrong done, the evil. It goes to that quote, if not you, who?

[01:13:17] Or the idea that no one's coming. There's no rescue. There's no rescue squad coming. That's right. That's right. It's you in this moment. There's no hero origin story. I mean, that line was a hero being born. Was an interesting one.

[01:13:32] But Ged at this point is still very, very wounded. Right. And we'll see more about that in the next section. And it's very hard for him to see anything beyond the evil and the ruin and all the rest of it.

[01:13:48] I did note too that she grabbed the books. Yes, she did. Books are sacred. Remember, there's an awful lot of our dear Ursula and our dear Tanav. I saw that as Ursula peeping out there. It's like, no, don't leave the books. And you can feel the tension.

[01:14:06] Yes, and how she hated to tear a small strip off anything so sacred as a book to send the note to Ged to tell him to leave that night and go on to her farm.

[01:14:19] And the thing is, even though he no longer has his empowerment at this point that he had, Ged still can't see anything other than the evil. Eihal could see something. Unfortunately, he died too soon or he kind of got off the topic too soon.

[01:14:40] He saw and he said he saw Tanav sees with the eyes of love. And she doesn't know yet what she's seeing, but she has a way to look differently. And Le Guin actually calls her a wolf mother. Okay.

[01:14:58] Because she's raising this wild child, this child who has almost been dehumanized. She's certainly been degendered because all the things that men might find admirable and attractive in her gender are gone. Yeah. Her virginity is gone. She's ugly. Right. You know, all of those things.

[01:15:19] And so who or what is she? Tanav doesn't care. She's a child who needs healing and love and affection. Right. And she will not let the dark ones take her. Right. So that is the battle or the battle of the five armies? It doesn't matter.

[01:15:37] That's the battle, right? That's the battle. Doesn't matter. That's the battle. Yeah. What scale you're talking about? You're there in that moment. Another thing when she needs to send the message

[01:15:50] to get, initially she says to Therru, go and get Zippy to take this message over to Auntie Moss. And Therru says, I will go. Yeah, right. And Tanav is astonished and says, but you'll have to pass the village. And she says, I will go.

[01:16:13] And so Tanav tucked the paper into the child's pocket, held her, kissed her, let her go. Therru went, not crouching and siding now, but running freely, flying, Tanav thought, seeing her vanish in the evening light beyond the dark doorframe, flying like a bird, a dragon, a child, free.

[01:16:36] So again, she's got this agency and she sees in Ged perhaps someone who is even more wounded than she is and it's something she can do for someone else. Right. And we've never seen her run before. Right. And to run and walk openly. And to be a child.

[01:16:54] And to be a child. Just running in the field. So, well, anything else or? Well, Therru certainly responds strongly the first time she hears Tanav say the name Kelesin. So we can put a pin in that. Is that more dragon foreshadowing? Yeah, I'm shifting into dragon here. Okay.

[01:17:17] Oh, right. Because you have dragon here on your notes as well. A wave of warmth heat seemed to flow from the child as if she were in fever. She said nothing but moved her lips as if repeating the name and that fever heat burned around her.

[01:17:31] And then we have, and this is really important, I do want to read this, the image of the fan. Yeah. Oh, right. I forgot about that. We have to bring this in here. Right. There was a lot packed in here. There was. There was.

[01:17:45] He has this beautiful ornate fan, which gives him his use name. And on it is a picture of lords and ladies and castles kind of almost seeming to float in the sky. And he asks her, did I ever show you the other side? Right. And she says no.

[01:18:04] And so she gets it down and flips it around. And on the other side are dragons flying through the air and with clouds and so on and so on and so on.

[01:18:16] And let's see, dragons moved as the folds of the fan moved painted faint and fine on the yellow silk dragons of pale red, blue, green moved and grouped as the figures on the other side were grouped among clouds and mountain peaks.

[01:18:31] Hold it up to the light, said old fan. She did so and saw the two sides, the two paintings made one by the light flowing through the silk so that the clouds and peaks were the towers of the city and the men and women were

[01:18:48] winging and the dragons looked with human eyes. You see? I see, she murmured. She murmured. I can't now, but it's in my mind's eye. I don't show many of that. Just very wonderful. So yeah, she's setting stuff up big time here.

[01:19:18] And this idea of people as dragons, and I think there's a short story, Mr. Underhill. Well, I shouldn't say too much more. But yeah, I don't know. Okay, yeah. She's playing with this idea of dragons and dragon spirit and dragon power and all kinds of stuff.

[01:19:42] And I don't know yet what to make of it all. And it seems like just an interesting little Philip or character drop or something or an excuse for her to be there with Van. Right. No, no, no, no. It's, she doesn't do small stuff like that. He doesn't.

[01:20:00] She does not. And yet you still have to kind of pay attention. Yeah. And in this run of chapters, there's a whole bunch of other stuff going on. And so it's this quiet little moment. You're like, huh, interesting.

[01:20:13] And then all of a sudden there's all this other stuff and it's easy to forget that scene. Yep. All right. Anything else? Um, just be with us for the next episode. Enjoy the ride because it's so intense and it's scary and it's delightful and terrifying.

[01:20:35] And don't worry, it does end well. It is fantasy novel after all. We need our heroes to win. Whether they are arch mages of full power or aged widows. Right. Injured young women. That's right. Well, we've got a bit going on over here in lorehounds world.

[01:20:57] So I'm just going to do a quick round the world tour of our affiliates. Alicia is busy with a bunch of stuff. Her and Luke, you may remember Luke from their silo coverage are going to be covering a show called beacon 23.

[01:21:13] We just pushed out a little intro to all the channels, uh, setting that up and her and Luke are going to have their primer episode out soon. So go subscribe to the wool shift dust feed to check that out.

[01:21:28] She's also going to be doing some book club stuff with Abby, who is also somebody who's been around and sort of recently joined in her and Abby are going to team up on doing the beacon 23 book.

[01:21:41] And they're also going to pick up on the wool shift dust book. So check out the wool shift dust book club on Patreon. Anthony and Steve just finished up their season of covering. Remake movies, they covered things like RoboCop, the Wolfman, Wicker Man departed a whole bunch

[01:22:01] of stuff that'll a good time. And until they come back around with their next season of movie reviews, we have severance in the mix. So we are expecting severance season two to be out on Apple TV sometime in early 2024.

[01:22:17] And so Steve and Anthony have already recorded a whole season one recap, and we're dropping those on Fridays. And then once season two starts, John and I are going to join Anthony and Steve, and

[01:22:28] we're going to do a four by four recap of season two episode to episode week to week. And we set up a whole separate feed just for that. So go subscribe to that feed if you're interested in that show.

[01:22:44] We'll release some stuff here and there just for getting people's attention. But just for logistics sake, it was easier to set up a separate feed. So go subscribe to that feed. And those episodes are dropping weekly on Fridays. For lore hounds, we're playing a lot of catch up.

[01:23:01] We have the Marvels movie coming out. We've been covering Loki, and then we're catching up with Silmarillion stories. We've got Earthsea, we've got some Star Wars stuff. And then of course, our second breakfast podcast, I believe the lore hounds play podcast should be out soon. They covered Skyrim.

[01:23:25] John and Brandon covered Skyrim. So hopefully that's going to be out very soon. So stay tuned to our channels, and we'll keep everybody posted as things are rolling out. Also, I want to make a quick mention about our Patreon.

[01:23:43] We have one, and it's the best way to support us. And if you're interested in supporting us, you can join for as little as $3 a month. If you want to do an annual subscription, we give you a 10% discount.

[01:23:56] And for under $35 a year, you can support us and all of the people that we work with in all the projects that we're doing. And it's no easy feat to run a little mini podcast network. There's a lot of moving parts involved.

[01:24:12] And our Patreon supporters are really the engine that keeps the car going. And to our top tier subscribers, our lore masters, we always like to give them a quick shout out at the end of every podcast.

[01:24:25] So Samartian, Cyrus, Mark H., Michael G., Michelle E., David W., Brian P., Nick W., SC, Peter O.H., Patina W., Adam S., Nancy M., Lavinia T., Dove 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H., Sarah L.,

[01:24:42] Gara C., Eric F., Matthew M., Sarah M., DJ Miwa, Andra B., Kuang Yu, Laura G., Deadeye Jedi Bob, Nathan T., Alex V., Aaron T., Subzero, and Adrian. Thank you all for your continued support. Boy. Thanks, guys. That's just amazing.

[01:25:00] And it's so wonderful to have that support to be able to do way too much, but it's too much fun to drop anything. So we're not going to. Exactly. And this list is just incredible. I mean, you know, we've not lost a lore master, right?

[01:25:15] They all stick around. We just keep coming. That's great. Just keep coming. Means a lot to us. So Marilyn, it was a pleasure to talk with you this chapter. And we look forward to John joining us for the finale. I know he's been really enjoying this book.

[01:25:31] And so, yeah, I'm looking forward to the resolution of this and moving forward. So send us feedback, guys. Yeah. We really want to know how you are reacting to all this. Yeah. What it's bringing you to. And it's just fascinating to know from your side.

[01:25:49] So actually, I'm kind of hoping that maybe John will send us feedback to this episode since he sadly was not able to be with us tonight. Because I would hate for anybody to have to miss his perspective. Indeed. Great. All right, Marilyn. Thanks so much. Good night.

[01:26:03] And we'll see you next time. Thank you very much. Good night, folks. The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com contact. Get early and ad free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com.

[01:26:23] Slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities. Thanks for listening.