The Last of Us - S02E05 - Feel Her Love

[00:00:01] Hey Mark, I was listening to Paramore the other day and it really made me think about the amygdala and the limbic system. You just made those words up, didn't you? What, Paramore? We're the Nevermind the Music Podcast, where one musician and one psychologist talk songwriting and the mind, one song at a time. We'll hear everything from Green Day and OutKast to Stevie Wonder and Dua Lipa. And we mostly try to stay on topic. Except for when we don't want to. Nevermind the Music, wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:00:46] Welcome to the Lore of Us Podcast. We are The Lorehounds, your guides to the fungal apocalypse. This is our coverage of The Last of Us on HBO, Season 2, Episode 5, John Feel Her Love. I would rather not. Especially with the priest, man. Don't be giving me no love, my man. No, he can keep all the love he wants. Yeah. Happy Mother's Day, everybody. On this episode.

[00:01:17] This was a twisted episode. And then you throw in Happy Mother's Day. It sure was. Oh, man. Anyway. It sure was. Congrats, Dina. You know? Yeah, right? All right. We are going to start with our hot takes. Oh, no. And she lost her son, the one WLF lady on Mother's Day. Oh, right. Oh, God. You're right. Oh, no. Oh, good point. Oh, boy. Okay. All right. We're going to do the rest of the intro. Let's start with our hot takes today. And then we'll get into a discussion of the episode with a thematic based discussion.

[00:01:46] As always, you can contact us at tlou at the lorehounds.com. Or you can head to our discord, which is linked in the show notes. And you can get in on the chatter. It's a lot of great chatter on this show, on Andor, on Doctor Who, on everything. That's all going on. And I'm resurrecting the clicker clips. I'm doing some snapshots of episodes and pointing out some cool visual things for the season. I got a little off track because we got busy with Andor.

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[00:02:42] So our Last of Us histories. I've played the games you have not, but you've watched all of season one and season two so far. You want to start off with your hot takes? No, I want you to start off with your hot takes. Okay. I'm really interested to, again, like last episode, I'm curious to know what the game player has to say. I, all right. So it's tracking closely in terms of like themes and in terms of character moments to the game.

[00:03:10] They are changing a lot of settings on like where the stalker stuff happens. I think that's fine. You know, whatever you need to do to make it on TV. Shippy test stuff. Yeah. I, I think what I am there, there's two really interesting things on this. One is, I think, you know, already that, that spores were there in the game from the beginning. Right. Right. This was something that happens, I think in the tutorial, like in, in like the first post apocalyptic Joel segment, you just go through sport. Every time you walk through sports in the game, the game automatically puts on your game,

[00:03:40] a gas mask and then Joel will be able to walk through it. And then Ellie doesn't wear one, which is, which is always a cool detail. Right. Yeah. But so this was an interesting way to bring it in, in a, in a twisty kind of way. And I wonder if that was the plan from the beginning or if they got to game two and they were like, oh, we can't do this death without spores. Cause that's basically how the death happens in the game. It's very close. Okay. So, and even like when she was closing in on Nora, it was like, oh, that's like shot for

[00:04:10] shot in the game. That's okay. I was wondering, which is great. Like even the lighting and everything was, was like, but it's like a lot of perfect. Uh, so I really liked that. I am growing increasingly frustrated at Ellie's characterization and performance of the show. This is what I was curious about. And I wanted to hear it from, I wanted to hear your thoughts before I shared mine as you're closer to the source material than I am. So, yeah.

[00:04:34] So I, I think everybody knows I'm not like a, a, a, a person who insists that things be exactly like the source. Yeah. No, you're not doctrinal about it at all. Yeah. That's a good way to put it is I am not one that's like, well, they did it in the game differently. So I am upset, but man. We're down with Tom shippy here, right? We, you know, medium in the message. I think they're failing the shippy test on one major point. Okay.

[00:04:59] Which is they, so at first they were changing the order a little bit about Dina and Ellie getting together. They're changing, you know, like all fine stuff, like all fine details. But then what, what I am having a problem with is that this Ellie is season one Ellie. The Ellie we saw for the first half of this episode was season one Ellie. Until the last episode. And last episode of the same thing. Sure. But like in the game, oh man, I hate you saying, I hate phrasing it like that. Right. It feels wrong to me. Yeah, exactly.

[00:05:29] But in the game, she is like consumed with rage. Right. The entire time. And part of that is they leave right after the incident in the game. They don't, they don't wait three months. And maybe that was a mistake in the show. Maybe that was something they shouldn't have done. Um, but, but my point is this was something that you, every interaction you have with Ellie, like the love with Dina is there, but that is the bright spot in the storm. That is not the main thing.

[00:05:55] And they're playing it up so that that is the main emotion Ellie is feeling throughout all these, these cutesy little dialogues and not even just the love part, but like Ellie just not fucking taking it seriously. None of this. She's not taking any of it seriously. She's not letting Dina do the triangulation seriously until Dina pushes her. She's not, she's going, let's be reckless. Let's do all this. Like there's no, you know, Ellie has a sense of humor, but Ellie also by game two is older and has a maturity about her that makes her go.

[00:06:25] I have a mission and I'm not going to let anything go away, go in, get in the way of that mission. Got it. And I don't feel that from Bella Ramsey's performance. And I want to say that because I think it's a combination. I do think it's partly Bella Ramsey's performance. And I think it's a large part of the writing. I'd say it's like 70% the writing and 30% the performance, but it is in part the performance. And I've been very praiseworthy. I've been very praising rather of Bella Ramsey's performance.

[00:06:52] I thought she did an amazing job of season one, Ellie, and an amazing job in the first part of this season. I'm not feeling it. I'm not feeling it. These last two episodes, I was fighting down my impulse to critique it last episode because I said, all right, you know what? We're not really on the hunt yet, right? We're not really on the hunt yet for these people. Maybe next episode, there will be more of that, you know, untethered rage. Right. And where is it? Where is the anger of someone who is on a revenge quest? Mm-hmm.

[00:07:21] Because if I'm sitting there and I'm debating with Dina, should we stay or should we go? And 99% of our last conversations have been, oh, I love you. No, I love you more. No, I love you more. Probably I'm going to go back. Probably I've forgotten about the Joel revenge. Mm-hmm. But if I'm Ellie and I'm, and Dina is a side quest, you know what I mean? Like, Dina is her side quest and the main quest is kill Abby. I'm not going to act like Ellie's acting in this at all. Right.

[00:07:49] We can hook up and get all settled in and get a kitten and, you know, make nice at home when we get back. Yeah. But I got this other thing I got to do first. And there's, there's this emblematic scene. And I, and again, I, I shied away from criticizing this last episode, but now I'm going to let it out a little bit. Okay. When Dina tells Ellie, she's pregnant in the game. Mm-hmm. Ellie's like, why didn't you tell me? She's like kind of pissed off.

[00:08:18] And Dina goes, I didn't want to be a burden. And Ellie goes, well, you're a burden now, aren't you? Ooh. That's how that played. Ooh. And later she comes back and she's like, oh, look, I'm sorry. That was shitty to say. And like, but like, isn't that a different character than what we're seeing? Yeah. That is a different character. Right. And that's why I think this fails a shippy test. Got it. Yeah. Okay. There. That is my rant. Okay. And I'm sorry. This is, this might be my most negative take of the season of the show so far.

[00:08:46] Are you still in, did you still enjoy the episode last night? I enjoyed the second half. I enjoyed the second half tremendously because they, they, I saw revengeful Ellie, you know, I, I saw the character that we've been needing again. Like if you have part one, Ellie, if you have season one, Ellie, that's telling the same story over again. Don't tell me the same story over again. Tell me the new story with Ellie. Show me a character. How many, this is what five years after the end of season one. Yeah. You know, Ellie's grown.

[00:09:16] She's changed. She's learned different things. She's had different experiences. Yeah. Inevitable March of time. Right. Yeah. And, and so look, I, I, I hate to be this critical, but man, did they let me down with this, these last couple episodes on the characterization of Ellie. And last one you were just holding to see if they were transitioning and they were just getting the next set up, set up. I never want to yuck somebody's yum. Look, if you love this episode, keep loving this episode. I think that's great.

[00:09:44] I just, I am a little bit mournful of what could have been because I, I'm not seeing a person on a murder quest. Right. This is not a person on a revenge quest. This is a person who, maybe tomorrow they'll feel like revenge. You know what I mean? Uh, other than that though, the Nora scene was perfectly executed. I really enjoyed that. Love the way that they introduced spores. Um, the scars are terrifying. The Sarah fights are terrifying. I'm really liking the picture of them.

[00:10:11] Uh, I'm not bothered by Jesse X Machina, which is what I titled that section. I know that was really funny. I saw that in the notes. Or Dave, who says Jackie, Jesse. Yeah. That's Jesse. Um, I, I'm not as bothered by that mostly because I mean, that's, that's pretty video game for us. Right. But also like, I even said this in the discord. Like if, if I left the day after my friends and I am an experienced tracker and scouter, I probably could find them, especially because dumbass Ellie turns on the electricity in the theater.

[00:10:41] They save that for when we get to the, hello, we're here. Yeah. I'm here. I know. I had that in my notes too. But so like, you want to know how he found the theater? Oh, look, shining lights in the middle of an apocalyptic wasteland. Then that goes to me. Yeah. Me, my thing about let's play drums. Let's play musical instruments in the zombie apocalypse. Let's draw attention to ourselves. I absolutely believe that Jesse would have been able to find Ellie and Dina mostly because of Ellie.

[00:11:15] All right. That's the end of my ranty hot take. Got it. Can you give me, can you lighten it up a little bit? I'll try. I'll, I'll steer through some of these icebergs here. Well, these are our hot takes and our cold takes. So send the emails in, let the hate flow through you. I don't think, you know, people, I didn't see too much variance on the discord from that. I did check in on a couple of other podcasts just quickly. And some have some mixed feelings.

[00:11:43] There was one that had nothing but praise. And I was like, okay, but I, I know the bias for that, that particular podcast. Oh, the official one. No. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I, I, I just want to say like, before you get into your out next, I'm sorry, but like our discord is so positive and in a great way. Like it's, it's so looking right as a community, as a space, as a place for discourse. Yeah.

[00:12:06] I see people always finding gems, finding diamonds in the rough and here, like, I didn't see a lot of positive takes on that. And I think that's saying something. I do think that this episode has some big flaws. Right. And we don't, we're not going to throw praise just to throw praise. We're not quote unquote chills and we're going to be critical. But I think there's a difference between, between critiquing and just being critical for critical sake. Right. Right. Yeah. I really liked the second half of the episode. Yeah.

[00:12:34] It's just, I, I, I do think there is a core issue to this season. Got it. Anyway, go on. Yeah. So I'm, I'm kind of in this vibe of, Oh, you know, maybe they're in a little bit of the sophomore slump thing. Season two, they're trying to do a bunch of stuff. And I also feel like, Hmm, there's, this is not season one. They are not hitting the same beats and the same marks and the same intensity, like the

[00:12:58] Franken bill, like long, long goodbye and a Kansas city and the end of Kansas city. They, they, they beautiful setups, great characterizations. And then just, you know, boom, you know, just really hitting you hard. And this one feels, even though it has a very clear mission, it does. It feels a little drifty. Like I'm not sure exactly what's going on. Yeah. This, uh, of all episodes from all of season one up to now, this is the most video game.

[00:13:28] Like I could feel the video game around me. Uh, this is the one that I could feel that feel it the most. Now turn on your flashlight there. There, and I've got to think about flashlights in a minute there, you know, the set pieces were cool. One didn't make sense from just a in world logic set up. Uh, but you know, they were still cool. I, I enjoyed the episode, but at the same time I'm like, Hmm, you know, this is notching down my, my top 10 list.

[00:13:58] Like it's, it's falling. It's, it's, I, I feel it going down the, the peg. What is that connect for? I feel it falling. And there's lots of little things that are adding up that are, uh, yeah, like a, like a Jesse X Machina. Um, there's it's, it was interesting. Somebody else on the disc, I forgot who it was, was saying this that, or, or something similar to this, that, uh, I can, I can root for evil. This is me saying this.

[00:14:27] And then I think somebody else said, said the other part of this, which is I can root for an evil character, but I can't root for a dumb character doing dumb things. And then never read slaughterhouse five. No, a long time ago. I don't remember it. But anyway, you know, evil character doing dumb things. Fine. I can handle that. But a dumb character doing dumb things. It's like, Oh, that's just a little bit, a little bit hard. And I could be down with the love story. I'm, and I'm down with it.

[00:14:56] I'm like, it's a, it's a, I'm enjoy, I enjoy Bella Ramsey and, uh, Isabella Merced on screen. I think they have a lot of fun chemistry. I'm glad to see different kinds of relationships on screen rather than sort of our, our standard heteronormative. And that was a great thing about, uh, episode three last season. And, but you know, I think, I mean, I don't want to rewrite the show necessarily, but okay, have the love, but where's the burning rage for revenge and then counterpointing and that

[00:15:25] we're doing this for love and, you know, and then, Oh, and we're in love. There's no, there's no contrast between the relationship and the revenge mission. Right. Or, or have the, have the love as the center of the burning hot rain, you know, uh, uh, revenge mission on the outside. Right. And that would be cool. Um, so yeah, I, I'm feeling you on there. Just quick side, a side note on, I'm on episode three from season one.

[00:15:53] I, I'm kind of was picking up some, on some Frank and Bill vibes with Ellie and Dina. Hmm. Like, um, uh, Ellie was a little bit Bill and Dina was a little bit Frank, like the one who talks sense and then the one who's a little bit more, you know, uh, crazy about things. You're a little crazy, but I love you. So. So strike that reverse it. Oh, did I have the wrong? I think so. I think so. I think you flipped them. I think Bill is the one who makes sense and Dina is the one who makes sense.

[00:16:24] Yeah. But Bill, Bill is the, uh, the survivalist and who will kill anything without. All right. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Where Frank is the ledger, you know, there are little elements, just little elements there. So that, well, I think, I think like, I see what you're saying and I, and I, I'm going to put it together for you here. Okay. I think, I think you're welcome here. Uh, let's play Jenga. Um, no, I, I, I'm sorry. I'm filled with, I'm filled with sarcasm today.

[00:16:50] I had a long day and I feel like I'm just gonna, I, I'm just going to bleed sarcasm today. All right. Everybody just put a box around, uh, John, let him vent. Don't get all upset and send any emails or anything like that. Uh, just give the man some space. No, I was cranky about the episode last night though, when I watched it. Yeah. So, um, anyway, you're going to put, you're going to put some Jenga.

[00:17:11] So my, my point is, I think that both couples sort of have their more emotionally forward version and the more practical version. And I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, I was going to say emotionally intelligent, but Ellie is not emotionally intelligent. No, but when they're under pressure, she knows exactly what to do in the warehouse room. She's like, okay, you're going to run to the cage. I'm going to draw them. Like she was clear on the plan tactically in this situation under, under stress.

[00:17:42] Whereas Dina's like, oh, did you bring band-aids? Did you bring a page of socks? She's the prepper, right? Just like Bill. Yeah. I think, I think you're there. Oh no, no. But see, but Frank has, is like logical. We're going to do this this way and it's going to make sense. And so. But Bill's the logistics guy. You know, Frank, Frank is the visionary, but Bill's the logistics guy. That's why I'm flipping them. Okay.

[00:18:03] Well, but I, but I actually like what you were just saying, which is let's look at, at couples and their relationships and the building blocks that they bring to make that relationship successful. Mm-hmm . And I think if we contrast Billy and Dina and Frank and Bill, and then we can kind of compare, go, oh, this, you know, like Bill will kill anything that threatens his family and his, his place. So will Ellie. Yeah.

[00:18:31] But, you know, Dina is going to say, okay, you're, and you're going to bring blister band-aids and a change of socks. And I would see Frank doing that as, as well. So, right. So it's just, but I don't know. But I don't know. I think that's Bill's department. You know, I think Frank says. No, Bill's the guy that builds the sparkers with the, the, the, the grindering machines with the gas and stuff like that. I'm just saying, look, I think Frank says, I think we should build a garden and Bill gets the shovel. Sure. That's what I'm saying.

[00:18:58] And I think Dina is the one with the shovel and with the measurements. All right. Well, anyway, but again, I, I like the patterning, right? Like, look at these, let's look at patterns of couples. And I think that's a cool thing. Yeah. Uh, I have two nitpicks and then I'm going to shut up about nitpicks. Okay. One, that was an old growth forest, not a park. Those were some big ass trees. That was Endor, my dude. That was like big ass trees. That is old growth forest.

[00:19:27] So you can fight me on that one, but you're going to lose. I don't, I don't mean to be rude about it, but that was a crazy park. And Seattle doesn't have a park like that. Well, kind of, it does as mall link park anyway. Uh, and then they spent a lot of time last episode teaching us that a in tune guitar is a rare thing. I know. And then she walks into the thing and like, Oh, Hey, here's a guitar. I'll start playing. Great. I, I said that to Maya. I turned to Maya and I said, well, then why did they have the silica packets last episode? Exactly. Like why did you do that?

[00:19:55] If you're going to do this, don't set it up, you know, play by the rules of your own world. Exactly. Yep. So good things. I, they're still really using the Joel monster Ellie immune as a central driver. I really love the setup with Nora and I love I, all of that stuff that's still resonating out. What do you mean? You, you, you know, Oh, he did this terrible thing. I know. Oh, we're going to talk about that. That's interesting.

[00:20:20] Uh, so all of that I think is carry the echoes of Joel and Joel's actions are, are continuing to echo forward. And I think that's cool. Uh, I think the really interesting thing of all of this and I'm there where I'm still, um, into the show is, Oh, cordyceps is evolving. Huh? They've shown us a couple of things in this season, three things that I can think of one. It's moving around. It's moving around in the snow.

[00:20:48] It's, it's, you know, generating armies to throw it's sending out, you know, a little spy tendrils. Oh, something's triggered. Great. Now we know where to go attack. So that's smart. Uh, we're seeing, um, what do you call them? The stalkers? Yeah. Um, there was clearly a moment where one of the stalkers where Ellie was surrounded and one of the stalkers gave a command and the other ones attacked Ellie. And I actually slowed it down and watched it.

[00:21:15] So there, there was actually some coordination going on there. So I'm like, that's intelligence. And then obviously the whole aliens of it all. Sorry. I couldn't help but see B2 level as aliens. Um, but that, that, that cordyceps is evolving and it's using these hosts as, you know, long machines to blow, blow, uh, cordyceps out and around. So that's really interesting. Where are they taking cordyceps? And is there a, in a kind of intelligence that quarter steps is developing?

[00:21:45] That's the real, you know, and that would be interesting because Joel really did screw the entire human race. Then when he shot, uh, um, Abby's dad, because he was the one guy that could have. So that's, I think all of that's cool. Uh, the B2 level. Amazing. It looked beautiful. There's a whole thing about flashlights and I'll talk about it later when we get to the, to the basement level.

[00:22:10] Uh, and then the whole thing of this convergence of Ellie and Joel, it's taken a while. We've only got two episodes left, right? This is seven episodes a season. And I have a bone to pick with that. I think that was a huge mistake. Got it. And I feel like, Ooh, now we've got a really short runway when we got this convergence. And so, Hmm, I'm not sure how that's going to be, but I'm really curious as to what's going to happen with this convergence with Ellie psychology and Joel psychology. So, yeah.

[00:22:40] So I'm, I, I was just like, Oh man, I was kind of rolling my eyes a couple of times the episode last night, but I still enjoyed it. I still had a good time and I'm still, it's not, I'm not getting kaleidoscope. Not that feeling of the middle of kaleidoscope where I'm going, God, do we have to finish coverage of this? Oh, and interestingly enough, Nora, the actor, Nora, she was in kaleidoscope. Was she? Yeah. I looked her up today. Uh, I have to, I have to double look. Oh, she was like a minor character. Yeah. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll look her up.

[00:23:09] So while we keep talking. All right. Well, you know, I, I really do want to talk about the, I know moment with Ellie because, because I, I think, um, yeah, I think we'll have a really interesting conversation about that later. So let's take a break. And when we get back, we'll get into the scene by scene.

[00:23:44] We're back. Hanrahan, Hanrahan? I don't know what they say in that. Han, Hanratty. She asks Sergeant Elise Park for an explanation of why she killed several of their best soldiers. Park tells her that she sent crews into the basement to clear the rest of the hospital floors. The crews reported back over the radio that cordyceps was all over the walls and in the air. She sealed them in to live as infected. Hanrahan, Hanrahan. Oh my God. I'm never going to learn how this is.

[00:24:13] Tells her that, uh, since it's not spreading to the upper floors and the vents, they'll need to keep the hospital. They can't afford to lose it. And she gives condolences for Elise's son. Happy Mother's Day. Indeed. So Hanrahan is the WLF person that we saw when Isaac switched sides. Yep. And they shook hands. And I really like her. I like the character. The character seems like a good leader. She's direct. Like, I know, I know what your orders were.

[00:24:43] I gave them to you. And, uh, shit, I'm, I'm, you know, let me smoke a cigarette with you and sympathize. And I'm, I'm really sorry about your son. Yeah. And, you know, we still have missions to do. We still got stuff to do. So I, I really appreciated her as a leader and I, I hope we get to see more of her. I don't know if she's in the game or, or what, but she's cool. And I, I like that she didn't make assumptions. Right. You know, she walks in and she goes, all right, this seems crazy. Tell me why it's not. Exactly. And I loved the setup for this whole opening.

[00:25:12] So this, the whole episode had some really, really good bits. And then there were some other bits. We're like, okay. Uh, and this was one of the bits that I really loved. She walks in, she examines the door. We don't know what's going on. And then she walks in and then they have the, the, the questioning, you know, the conversation. Mm-hmm . And all of the exposition, all of the character exposition was in situ, right? It was natural for them and telling us what's going on. Boom. It was perfect.

[00:25:42] I loved everything about it. I loved the setup shot with, uh, Sergeant Park, the way that she was sitting on the, and the, and the, the wall behind her had just enough lighting. So there was this cool vignetting feature to her, the grittiness of it. Visually, it was really great. Nobody knows how to smoke anymore because we've all stopped smoking cause bad for us. But I love the fact that they were smoking. It was all awesome. All of it. And a great setup for Leon. Yeah.

[00:26:12] Then when we see Leon's name tag later on, we're like, oh damn, like that was really good. That was all really great. Good writing, good script writing, good characterization, good acting. And man, did that cordyceps move fast? You know, I mean, the idea in the game is that if, if cordyceps has been sitting with, with so long that, that it'll just, you know, in an enclosed space, it'll just fill the air with spores. Like it'll advance so much that it'll have spores.

[00:26:42] And so this only happens in enclosed spaces, which I think that's, that's not the end of the world, right? You, you avoid enclosed spaces with cordyceps. Uh, I think, I think that's fine, but yeah, it's scary. If you don't know what you're expect, what to expect. I mean, they just walked into their death right there. Right. The, I, I gotta wonder if B level B two looked like that. What the hell does level B three look like? That's a good question.

[00:27:08] That's gotta be scary as hell, which is a nice implicit setup for, you know, what's coming potentially. Cause she says B one, two, three, right? So she don't hold your breath. I'm just going to tell you, don't hold your breath. Okay. I don't think we ever came back to the hospital game. It's just, it's just a one and done kind of, uh, kind of thing. And I don't think that's a spoiler. That's just like, I don't want you to hype yourself up here. Sure. Fair enough. I'm not, but I'm just saying it's like, Hmm. Like if this is like this, then boy, down there, it's gotta be crazy. But it was so aliens.

[00:27:37] Like I'm, I can't, I'm sorry. There's just so much. This little bit of it is so aliens when she's on the map and she's talking about, uh, it, this is Sikorny Weaver and they're looking over the map in Hadley's hope. And like, it was, it was great, but I loved it. I loved the homage to it. Uh, and I loved the whole Chekhov's basement, you know, like it was good. It was good television writing. It was good setup. And again, they're showing us that Cordyceps is evolving. That's scary.

[00:28:07] That is a cool driver for the show. I did in the intro in the animated intro for the show has, have there always been the floaty particles? I kind of just keep skipping the intro, but maybe not. I don't know. I definitely saw on this, but I don't remember. I just don't remember. Yeah. We, I definitely saw on this time. There's definitely floaties in on the, on the thing. So yeah. Now at least, you know what, for this episode, I don't, I didn't go back and look. So. Right. Anyway, great setup. I really loved this opening bit. Yeah.

[00:28:36] This was, this was nice. I liked that they, they sort of book ended this episode with those two, you know, spore based stories. Yeah. Are you good with the bringing in the spores now? Yeah. I think that's great. I, you know, I, I was like, why aren't they doing spores? But I, the more I think about it, the more I think this was an intentional thing of like, let's bring this in as a development instead of have it from the beginning. I think. Cause you have, now you have a, you have a level to move. If you, if you start out at a thousand, where do you go? It was like, right.

[00:29:06] Was it the, with the second matrix movie? They started out with a crazy fight with Mr. Smith, with agent Smith. And it was just like all over and you're like, okay, you just blew me out of the water. Where do you go from here? Like you, there's no, there's no ramping up of my dramatic tension. So I thought, I thought, I think bringing in the spores at this stage, I like it as a non game player. I think it's smart. That's right. I think that's right. Uh, yeah. All right.

[00:29:35] Well, spores galore. We'll have more later. Wow. That was a lot of war. That was interesting. Dina gives her backstory next. So we've got the pinnacle theater safe house where Dina triangulates the location of WLF patrols using using their radio conversations. The pair Dina and Ellie also determined that the Sarah fights are likely not technology users based on the open use of radio by the WLF.

[00:30:02] Ellie finds a guitar and plays the opening of future days by Pearl jam, which you'll recall was the title of the first episode. Oh, good call. Good catch. Mm hmm. On the way back to the hospital, Dina tells Ellie about her first kill when she was eight. She came back from playing outside to find a raider killing her mother and sister. She shot him, but says she would have tracked him anywhere if she hadn't done it then. She encourages Ellie to accept her help and Ellie decides to press on. Right.

[00:30:32] So the pinnacle theater, I'm just trying to look up. There is. So yeah, there like I just have to every time they say Seattle, I just have to I have to work to suspend my disbelief because I'm well, but but that's fine. Right. Because like they probably can't even get the rights to a lot of these like real theaters. So but I'm like thinking of the places that they were thinking of in Seattle. Like I know that corner where the more theater is, you know, and or the Paramount is, you know, you know, I get it. Yeah, but I know I promise I wouldn't nitpick anymore.

[00:31:02] But why the F would you turn on the lights to a giant theater building so at nighttime everybody can see? I'm sorry. It just drove me nuts. I mean, that's just Ellie being Ellie though. Yeah, that's but again, like I actually think that that's that's game one Ellie, although I think she does turn on the lights in game two. Right. But I don't I don't remember. But my point is I just am not super happy with how she is. Yeah, we got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:31:31] The I do want to point out something there. The use of a flashlight at the beginning here is very Dina's using it and it's pointing a lot straight into the camera. And it's lighting the scene up a bunch. And it's continue. It's a motif that they use throughout this whole episode. But it's a very important thing that they set up at the beginning that comes into play at the end. And I'll talk about it at the end when we get to the end.

[00:31:59] So I just wanted to point out the first time they use the flashlight as this little visual motif happens when Dina's working on the map. So yeah, so they teach triangulation in post apocalyptic schools. I don't know how to triangulate to you. I know kind of how to use a compass in a map. I can sort of I can kind of shoot an azimuth from time to time if I kind of remember how but I don't remember how to do the declinations and stuff like that. But yeah, I never did learn. I didn't learn anything about triangulating.

[00:32:28] I mean, maybe they teach it more then because they you know, by the time I was in grade school, they had GPS's. Right. And they were like, we don't need to teach these kids anything. I'm actually kind of worried now because like we're just such a cashless society now when we were in England last summer. I didn't go to an ATM once I never touched a piece of British currency in my trip there. We were just all contactless payment and like what happened anyway, that's it.

[00:32:57] They were before us to like they were really on when I lived here. Yeah, we have. I remember going there in 2019 on my honeymoon. Yeah, we have before. And they were already like all Apple pay everywhere. All Apple, Samsung pay. Yeah. None of this. If you brought out Cassidy, be like, huh? Yeah. Back in 2000 when I was living there with my friend, he was doing bank transfers. You know, just like sit down, log into your bank, look up the account number of the other person, transfer, done.

[00:33:26] Like crazy. Anyway, I do love the look that Dina gives Ellie though, when she's, when you know, when your partner is like bugging you or up in your business, when you're trying to take care of one of the chores around the house and like, I got this. This is my thing. Like go away. So I really, I loved the little couple of the moment there between the two of them. He's like, Ellie, do you know how to do this? No. Okay. Goodbye. Then yeah, then go away.

[00:33:55] But again, this whole thing, I, I, I'm into the relationship as just the relationship, but yeah, where is the white hot revenge? Where is the like, okay, did you figure out a way? Because I really want to kill Abby, right? You know, kicking rocks as John would say. Yeah. She's just walking around theater, like kicking her feet. Like, ah, I don't know. Maybe we'll kill Ellie, Abby tomorrow. Yeah.

[00:34:18] So, and, um, another thing I really liked was the moment, there was a moment when Dina, sorry, when Ellie walks into the, the, um, into the performance space and on the stage and is looking around and looking up. And I kind of had like a star is born by for a minute in this kind of like idea of Ellie thinking, oh, what could have been, I could have seen a performance, you know, back in the day or Joel could have been, you know, or I could.

[00:34:46] What, what would it be like to be, uh, up here on stage playing for all these thousands of people? I just kind of liked the checked out moment of, oh, what if a time, a time, a bygone time, um, that they gave us there. I thought that was cool. No, I think that's right. And, and also just like that really somber moment of her playing a song that like, I'm pretty sure Joel taught that to her, you know? Right.

[00:35:17] Yeah. I, I just, it's sad. Like that was one of the moments that worked for me because we finally see Ellie like coming to terms with losing Joel. Right. Yeah. And I, I felt like at the end for their, this convergence, like there wasn't a lot of setup for it in this episode. There were things, but there was not, I didn't really feel like a, a, like we were emotionally driving towards that by the, there wasn't a lot of setup for it. So. Yeah.

[00:35:44] Like I, I just, I didn't buy that Ellie was like, I'm going to go to the hospital and not to Dina. I think, I think this Ellie would have gone to Dina. And then the, then not to harp on, we're just really harping on it. You know, we're going to, it's fine. Let's be reckless. Uh, Ellie whispers, let's keep going. And it's all very, oh, and when Ellie says, well, we should go, maybe we should go back. You don't have to come on here and do this with me. I'm like, at the screen, go back.

[00:36:14] Yeah. I'm like shouting. And it was just, oh, you know, it's one dumb and reckless. I mean, yeah, I just had a hard time buying the whole, why, why are they doing it? I don't, they're, they're not giving me anything on screen to really sink my teeth into on the revenge plot. Yeah. I think this Ellie needs to be much more singularly focused in, in the revenge. But then like, I get a taste of it later in the episode. And I really liked that. I really liked this Ellie who's like, oh, you won't give me anything about Abby.

[00:36:45] Wordless just grabs a pipe. Right. I mean, that's the Ellie we needed. And, and because we got that, I know it's more a writing problem than a Bella Ramsey problem. Right. Exactly. Because Bella Ramsey can do it. They're just not giving her the tools. Yeah. They're not the pages on the script. Yeah. Right. The words on the script. Right. So Craig Mazin, what are you doing? Yeah. And I don't wonder if they're doing something with Ellie's arc so that when she does, so we're seeing the sweet side of what could, maybe that's what they're doing is they're giving

[00:37:12] us the sweet side of Ellie and what we got that already though. And then now we're getting, yeah, I agree. I agree. But now they're, they're really pumping it up so that when she does go dark, like there's a, they're trying to create a contrast, but I don't know that it worked this episode. So by game two, well, by, by post Joel death game two, I feel like Ellie was a lot closer to Joel and personality than her game one version. Gotcha. And, and not in a way that felt like they were just trying to recreate Joel, but in a way

[00:37:41] that's like, this is a person that has suffered profound loss in front of her. Mm-hmm. And we saw what that did to Joel with Sarah and we're seeing what that does to Ellie. And that seeing that that is, um, Ellie's path, right? She's following Joel's path. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, you ready for Dave's ex Jesse? As I love Jesse. I mean, I, no matter what, I still, I still love the, I love the actor and I love the character.

[00:38:11] I, I like Jesse a lot too. I knew he was coming back. You were like, are we going to see Jesse again? And in my head, I'm like, yeah, you are. I knew it too, but, uh, cause they, they built him up so much. So yeah. Yeah. He wasn't going away. Yeah. All right. So Ellie and Dina go through the abandoned building through the center of the WLF patrols. After some success, they arrive in a room filled with stalkers. Dina locks herself in a cage while Ellie draws them to her. They are both surrounded and likely to die when Jesse saves them.

[00:38:39] He tells them he found their map in the theater and follow them there. He also tells them Tommy came too. I, I think the most frustrated I got in the whole episode, it wasn't even the, the, the Jesse bit. It was the fact that Dina ran out of ammo and, or couldn't clear the jam in her weapon. I didn't really understand what was happening there.

[00:39:04] And I was like, oh, I was just, I thought Dina was more like, where's your extra magazines? Why did you run out? I was very frustrated by that because I think, I think very highly of Dina. So I was like, wait, why, why do you, why is your ammo out? Look, we all know Dora's backpack carries extra mags. Exactly. Right. That's canon in the Doraverse. I want to pull, I want to see her pull it up BFG. Did you watch inside out too? No, I did not.

[00:39:30] They kind of parody Dora's backpack and they pulled dynamite out of it. I love it. It was, it was great. It was great. I want to see, what is it? Have you ever seen Avenue Q? That's the, I've listened to a lot of the soundtrack. Okay. And, uh, it's funny. It's funny. I want to see like a, a violent, uh, door of the Explorer, door of the conkey, the, the, the, the conqueror or something. I don't know. Door of the barbarian. There's that company. Now there's that horror company. That's taking like public domain childhood tales and turning them a dollar.

[00:40:01] You know about the, they're terrible. They're absolutely horrendous. The, uh, the old Mickey Mouse. They like the original Mickey Mouse, uh, character and stuff. I think. Oh no. The ones I've, I've noticed where the, um, the Winnie the Pooh movies, they're doing Winnie the Pooh and Peter Pan so far. All right. Say no, we're, we're moving on from here. Moving on from here. I haven't even watched any of them, but I've seen the trailers and I'm like, this looks horrendous. They did four of the Winnie the Pooh ones. Oh my gosh. Okay. Don't, don't, don't search for that on the internet.

[00:40:29] So I mean, I mean, look, just watch what you want folks. Watch what you want. Don't let David keep you down. Don't let David gatekeep you on horrible misogynistic, violent, uh, child. Who said it was misogynist. I don't know. I'm assuming, I'm assuming that they're, uh, I am sure he killed everybody. All right. I did, I did love the line. You're a little crazy and excited, but that's exciting. And I love you for it. I thought that was a beautiful line from Dina. I thought that was perfect. Yeah.

[00:40:59] Cause she knows Ellie. She's like, yeah, you, you shoot every time. Don't get mad. I'm just calling, you know, I'm calling you out, but yeah, you know, just accept it. Yeah. So she's a wild card. Yeah. Always been the wild card. Um, I, I did enjoy this, you know, the stalkers, I don't know. They haven't really made this clear in the show and I don't think they will, but like they're, they're supposed to be partway between runners and clickers in the game at least. So these were not actually evolved. It was actually a less evolved clicker. Okay.

[00:41:27] And this was just for some reason we didn't, I think you do encounter them like once in the first game, but it's very like, they don't really draw attention to it. And then the second thing game, they're like, oh shit, this is a thing that we really have to deal with now. Um, I think, I think it was something that was just more common in Seattle based on like the amount of time people were infected in Seattle. Okay. Right. Which is fine. I think that makes sense. Well, I go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say it makes sense to me in the idea that if they're evolving

[00:41:54] cordyceps, if, if Cordy is becoming the big bad, then, you know, having different, um, iterations and different tools and, and different, uh, things, uh, and maybe, you know, diverging from the game a little bit there. That's cool too. Like, you know, the, we're seeing new variations and I think that's, that tells me something that, that seems interesting to me. Yeah. I've never really considered Cordyceps, the big bad. I'll be honest with you. I've always considered it the setting.

[00:42:24] I've considered the zombie thing, the setting, and then the, the story being this human drama. And I have a feeling that they are making it, uh, uh, uh, the big bad because of, like I said before, we're seeing an army of, of, uh, infected. Yeah. We're seeing, you know, it's sending out intelligence, uh, feelers. We're seeing, you know, uh, um, smart, uh, infected, you know, cause there were definitely one of them gave a command. Okay.

[00:42:52] And then one attack from one direction, one attack from the other direction just before she gets tackled before Ellie gets tackled. There's one and Ellie's like looking around in a couple of different directions. And then there's one go like barks in order, but stays in place while the other two, uh, attacker from two different directions. And then it goes in. Uh, and then when Jesse comes in, it's like, oh crap. And then it runs off. So it gives a command and they all run off. Yeah.

[00:43:19] And I, I think I've been clear before, like I'm fine with Jesse showing up and, and like I saw somebody joke around on the, the game spoiler thread on, uh, on Reddit. They go, look, we all know it's a pothole that Jesse found the theater, but we're, we're living with it. We're living with it. Shut up about the potholes. Uh, um, I also want to make clear this, this is a change from the game in the, the order that they come in. So in the game, there's three setting. There's three times people leave the night before Ellie and Dina left.

[00:43:53] And then after you kind of like find traces of Tommy as you, as you go, you let, you're like, Hey, I think he was here. Um, but, um, Jesse leaves after them and he's the surprise. Jesse is a surprise. So here they said, okay, we're going to, we're going to flip it around a little bit. Now, Jesse and Tommy come together and it was after. So that's fine with me. It works. It doesn't matter. I know people were saying like, is he even gonna, people were worried because they wanted Tommy in Seattle. They wanted more of Tommy.

[00:44:24] And, uh, they were like, are they just skipping Tommy in Seattle? Uh, because again, only Jesse left after the, after. Well, are we going to get a deus ex Tommy? I don't know. I mean, Tommy's out there in the wind. I mean, he could show up. I mean, he, he, he rescued. We've had that happen where he has been, uh, you know, the rescuing element at the, I mean, he didn't rescue Sarah, but he rescued, um, yeah, he ultimately rescued, uh, uh, his brother. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, he's out there. He's other.

[00:44:52] So I, I knew that he, they weren't going to write it out entirely because he was the actor was seen filming in Vancouver where they were filming Seattle. So I, I was like, nah, they're not going to change it. I read somewhere. I think they were like, I'm trying not to be on the internet for the show, but I think they were filming in Nanaimo Canada, which is near Vancouver. Yeah. Which again, when we get into this old growth forest that is outside of a city, that is not possible. You gotta let it go. You gotta let the forest go. Oh, those are some big as trees, dude.

[00:45:23] That's some indoor action. Anyway, like Barney told me when I was a small child, I did love Jesse's line. Uh, trust me. I didn't think it was you. And then do I look like I want to talk right? He's so on top. He's so competent and, and sort of grounded. And I just loved his post-apocalyptic sensibility. So, and he's pissed, right? Cause he's like, I'm going to be president. And now I got to come out here and drag your asses back.

[00:45:52] And he didn't even wish his baby mama a happy mother's day. He's no, he's got a, he's got a rescuer with that arrow in her leg before anything bad happens. It's, you know, David, I used to be an adventurer and then they took it. And then they took it. And then I took an arrow to the knee. And that's it. Do you know about this? No. Did you really take an arrow to the knee? No, no, no. I'm saying this is a, a long time video game meme. Oh, is it? Oh no, I don't know this. Well, yeah, I'm not a video game player. In Skyrim, which is one of the most beloved and hated.

[00:46:22] No, I never played it. Never played it. One of the most beloved and the most hated games of all time because they keep re-releasing it for $50 on new consoles. Um, but you know, it was amazing. I played, I've played hundreds of hours of it. There is this one guard in the city that people loved because he, every time you walk up to him, he loves to tell you, I used to be an adventurer. And then I took an arrow to the knee. And just as one guard loves to say this. Okay. So I completely missed that line. I apologize. So somebody out there got it.

[00:46:49] They yelled more than, more than one, somebody out there got that. So the, I, the other thing I liked about this scene, uh, in the old growth forest was the, uh, whistle setup. Uh, they, you know, the, when we first met the Seraphites, they gave us the whistle language. And in here, when we hear the whistles, my hackles went up and I was like, oh shit. Now I, I mean, I already knew we were in Seraphite territory once the WLF, you overheard the guard saying, we don't go in there.

[00:47:18] Like, oh, obviously this is the boundary line. But then when you hear the whistle, you're like, oh shit. Now you're in trouble. Right. You went from the frying pan into the fire. Yeah. Which still drives me crazy. When you know you're in the middle of a turf war between psychotic, uh, uh, uh, you know, religious people, uh, and, uh, hardened military vet type people, you get out of the middle of that. You do not. That's a bad place to be. Yeah.

[00:47:46] I do not want to be the peanut butter and the jelly between those two slices of bread. But where were they going to go otherwise? Back home. But I mean, in that moment, like they, they had the forest. Oh no, no, no. Not in that moment. I meant in general when they're sitting in the theater and, uh, they're going, which I really liked that whole deductions part. Oh yeah. They're chattering on the radio. And so that must mean that the Seraphites don't use radios. Yeah. I loved all of that, but like, that's your clue. Yeah. Or, or, or maybe the disemboweled bodies hanging in the forward operating base. That, that was your clue.

[00:48:16] A lot of clues here. A lot of, Hey, don't stay here. Move along. And that giant hook he cuts them with. Oh my God. Well, we're not even there yet. We're not there. Now we're there. Now you can read that line. It's just, I, I, it's, it's, it's horrible. The scars. And I get so much anxiety from the, uh, the whistling too, because remember I played the video game. I played our, it's like a 40 hour video game. So you have your headphones on and you hear the, I have my headphones on and I hear the,

[00:48:44] I hear the whistle and I'm like, fuck, I have to move. I'm like running. Your wife's freaked out in the next room. She's all crouched down, like turn on the flashlight. What's going on? Oh gosh. All right. Let's go to the scars or the Sarah fights or whatever you want to call them. Yes. Ellie, Dina and Jesse see a group of scars preparing to hang one of the WLF. When he offers them information, he's ignored. They simultaneously hang and disembowel him.

[00:49:13] The Sarah fights here, the trio and chase them through the forest, shooting an arrow through Dina's leg. Jesse runs off with Dina. Well, Ellie draws the Sarah fights away faced with the decision of a direction. She heads to the hospital. Um, I don't have a lot to say about this scene other than that shit was messed up. Yeah. That was some really, really messed up television. Between this and the ending, I was just like, I was like, damn.

[00:49:42] I was like, what else if I'm watching? Did you think that they were going to, that Ellie was going to choose the hospital? Uh, no, I thought that that was, I thought that played out nicely. I, I, I liked that. Like she saw the hospital and then, you know, I got it. Uh, it did fits in that it fits into that. Well, I was finally like, okay, like Ellie's actually, you know, choose it.

[00:50:09] She's making the, the choice. Do I protect my friends or do I continue on my revenge mission? And it kind of just made sense. Oh, I'm, you know, she's here for a revenge mission. Go do revenge. Right. So it worked for me in that regard. Yeah. Okay. So, all right. I mean, the rest of it, the lead up wasn't there, but the, the decision in the moment, it worked, it worked. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. I think that's right. I, I hope that we get more of this just angry Ellie.

[00:50:37] I mean, I just want you to look up the cover of the last of us part two. Can you look up the poster art? Sure. Uh, last of us part two cover art. Do, do, do, do, do. I want you to look at the Ellie on that cover and tell me. She's like getting her. That is the Ellie you get for like most of the game in the last of us part two. That is a determined. That's, that's a, that's a column.

[00:51:04] That's like a, like a, she's definitely looking very golem there. Yeah. She is ready to kill at that. Yeah. And that's what I'm like, what are we doing here with, with, uh, this? I feel like I'm complaining too much and I'm going to cut myself off. Maybe a little bit. Maybe a little bit. I'm cutting myself off. Okay. I'm going to be happy about it because we're about to get into the best part of the episode. All right. I didn't want to police you or anything. You're, you're, you're your own boss. Oh, you're fine. You're complaining about trees. So I think I'm owed an Ellie complainer too.

[00:51:32] And then I'll get in trouble for calling the trees, narcissistic, narcissistic trees. So. Okay. All right. Let's take one more break. All right. And we'll come back and finish the episode. And we're back with no more trees to measure the girth of.

[00:52:02] Can I give one quick shout out? Yeah. For the last scene, the priest who's played by the actor Maurice Dean Wint, who has a not great IMDB listing, but I dug his performance. I dug his gravitas. And I really hope that this actor gets some more meaty role. Wait, me. I shouldn't say it that way. Oh gosh. I hope we get some more, uh, filling roles for, for him as an actor. Because I mean already. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:52:30] I, I, I really enjoyed the, the portrayal and the performance. So. Very cool. Very cool. Okay. You did bring back the trees. I sorry. I didn't mean to. He's hanging from a tree. I know. I didn't mean to move on Nora, Nora, Nora. All right. Let's get to Nora. My favorite part of the episode. So I won't complain anymore. All right. Ellie arrives at the hospital and corners Nora, who gives a performance of guilt, catch Ellie off guard and then runs away.

[00:52:56] Ellie chases her into the basement where she finds Leon and his crew converted to spore machines by the cordyceps. Wheezing through the spores. Nora is shocked to learn Ellie is the immune girl she had heard of and tells Ellie about what Joel did. Ellie reveals she knows and begins to beat Nora with a pipe for information about Abby. Ellie. There's a flashback of Joel waking up a younger Ellie.

[00:53:20] So from the moment we see Nora in the hospital, once Ellie gets through the little hole and escapes the dog and all that, the episode was perfect. Yeah. Again, just like the opening, all the exposition, all the setup, all the characterizations, all the drama, all of it worked really well. I felt that this, the beginning and the end of this episode were spot on. Yeah. I think that's right. Yeah.

[00:53:47] It was, it was once we separated Ellie and Dina for a little bit, the clunky dialogue fell away. I fell away. I actually, it's funny cause I like all of Dina's dialogue. Yeah. Dina's dialogue is great. I like all of Jesse's dialogue. It's, it's Ellie's dialogue that is not hidden. Okay. Why am I complaining right now? This is the best scene. I'm going to talk about this scene. Cool. I thought this confrontation, confrontation was great. I loved Nora. I loved Nora, you, you know, faking her out that twist where she's like, Oh, I, I still dream

[00:54:17] about it or I still think about it. But he got what he deserved. He got what he deserved. And you're like, Oh, got her, got her. And then when she was having the, when Ellie was having the emotional reaction, that's when she flipped up the tub of water or whatever and threw stuff at her. Yeah. Love it. Perfect. Perfect. And I really sorry that we lose Nora as a character cause I thought Nora was a smooth operator.

[00:54:44] She was a bad-ass not sure what she was doing on med duty. Cause I thought the other character was multiple medics when you're, you know, you got a whole army. So, uh, but I, I thought she was cool as hell and I'm really bummed that we, we lost her. So I think she was terrible. I think she was the daughter. She, she might've been, uh, the, the daughter in kaleidoscope of, um, okay. Yeah. Tati Gabrielle is the actor.

[00:55:11] I, and I really like her and I really hope that I could, uh, we see her more. I have to say this, there are scenes of this too, of her like reminding me of the, uh, aliens Romulus movie cause it had a whole bunch of young people and I could totally see her in an alien, uh, an alien world movie. Alien. Nice. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I, I loved this, this whole chase. I loved the, the desperation of getting into the elevator and she's like, oh, I'm finally going to be safe in this basement.

[00:55:41] No, you just killed yourself. Uh, and the, it was perfect too, because they set up the basement. So when we get to the basement here, we got all this tension when we're like, okay, what is this going to look like? What is, what is level B one and B two going to look like? So. Yeah. We already know what your fate is by the time you get down there and we know our hero Ellie, or maybe our anti hero by the end of this. Yep.

[00:56:07] Uh, she, uh, she's having, she's having no trouble at all breathing. The, so beside, and I, and I've said it before and I'll say it again, the aliens vibe to this, I loved the homage. It was so cool and it looked great. This, this felt visually it read like the visual aesthetic that last of us has been giving us the entire two seasons. Mm-hmm.

[00:56:33] So I thought, and the, the, the construction of the sets, the, the use of the, the bodies that were attached there, breathing the spores. That was so cool. The thing I wanted to say about flashlights. So we got flashlights at the very beginning and then we got flashlights when they're going through the, uh, uh, um, what do you call them again? The smart clickers? No, stalkers. Yeah. Stalkers. Thank you. And the stalkers and they're using the flashlights in a very horror vibe way.

[00:57:01] Some of the guards even outside have, you know, they do flashlights, the spotlights, the, you know, they're the WLF are using searchlights and all that stuff. But then when you get down onto level B2, the flashlights are the perfect kind of illumination to show us spores. To visually, cause we get that limited point of view of the flashlight and we can see them drifting through in the light. So all episode long, they were shining flashlights at the camera and into our eyes.

[00:57:30] And then now when we, when we go down there, when we get that effect again, of pointing the flashlight at the camera, we get to see all the little floaties and then we get to feel like the floaties are around us. So a plus on visual direction cinematography for this episode. And I will say, I hope they're setting up compensation for Bella Ramsey's lung treatment for multi glitter. Hopefully they did it all in post. Yeah. I think that was all in post.

[00:57:56] I'm just making stupid jokes, but yeah, I, I mean, Nora wheezing and, and getting to the point of, of not being able to breathe because the cordyceps is taking over her lungs. How perfect is that? And the realization what Nora has like, Oh shit, you're the one you're real. Yeah. That was cool. That was really cool. Yep. So did Ellie know? This is a decision I have to make now.

[00:58:26] Okay. This is my fork in the road. Like Ellie. And I, I have to decide how to respond to that. Honestly, I think you should just take the show at face value because I think the show has been telling you to do that from the beginning. Okay. When the show reveals something, it's not like a, Oh twist. That's not actually what it was. Right. I just think you should take the show at face value. Okay. Okay. And especially because it now flips to Joel, you know, with the flashback. I think they're telling you, we're about to tell you what's going on.

[00:58:56] Oh, that's interesting. Okay. All right. All right. All right. Okay. Waffle. Watch and find out. Okay. So, cause when she says, I know, there's no like, Oh shit. I know. She's like, no dude. I, I know. Like I'm, I'm very clear about that. And whether there was some prior conversation or whether she always knew inside, but I like the suggestions, take it at face value because they're not playing. This isn't lost. Yeah.

[00:59:26] There's no like mystery about the smoke monster or why they're polar bears or anything. Like this is pretty straightforward stuff. Yeah. So I think you should take it at face value. Now, how she found out what she found out exactly. All of that is up for grabs, but she clearly knew some of it at least. Right. And, and I think that's the thing for me that's always been at the background is, does she know deep down inside, you know, did she make that decision on the mountain side where she

[00:59:55] was like, you know, tell me the truth. And she was like, okay, I'm going to buy the lie, right? I know you're lying and I'm going to buy it and we're just going to move on. So. Yeah. Or, or, or did something, it did some conversation happen in the intervening years. So, yeah, I clearly something happened in the intervening years. You had said earlier in the season, God, I hope they don't bring back Pedro Pascal. That's so cheap. And I'm sitting there like sweating.

[01:00:20] Cause I'm like, oh, there's a lot of flashbacks that we see or at least some flashbacks. I don't know if I'd say a lot, but some flashbacks that you see, cause you got to fill in some of that backstory. Those five years. Right. Right. I think that's important. And, and it's not, it's not just bringing Pedro Pascal back. There are flashbacks in the game. Right. This is, this is a storytelling thing that you'll, you'll play a section of game where it's a flashback day with Joel. Cool. All right. Cool. Yeah. Well, I think that's the episode. Yeah. We did it. Okay. We did it.

[01:00:50] And you, you did it without burning the house down. So I'm sorry, everyone. I feel like I was cranky tonight, but I, I look, I really did like the latter. Yeah. I'm allowed to be cranky. The latter part of the episode. I'm more filled with rage than Elias. And that's a problem. And you're a father of two. So like, you better check that. Yeah. Right. But the point is I'm not that filled with rage and I'm still more filled with rage. Okay. It's funny. Okay.

[01:01:19] Shall we go to feedback? We should. Give, give us some feedback from Catherine. Catherine R says, love the pod guys. Been listening from basically day one. I always like listening. I always like hearing from, especially the OG OGs. There are people out there that have never peeped in, but then like they do. And you're like, wow, you've been with us since then. Yeah. It's cool. I love it. This might sound a bit odd to say, but does Ellie seem too happy to you guys? Hmm.

[01:01:49] In the game, Ellie heads out of Jackson, just a ball of rage, hell bent on revenge. In the show, and maybe it's to bring levity to the show, Ellie seems so much happier. The guitar scene in the show, Ellie's smiling. Game Ellie does not smile in that scene at all, really. The pregnancy reveal. In the game, she's furious and mad at Dina. But in the show, it's a jovial scene. It makes me worry. One, because it won't be convincing when she does horrible things.

[01:02:19] But two, I fear for Dina. If Dina got killed in the show, it might completely send Ellie spiraling towards the rage and a more game like Ellie. But the great podcasting, Catherine R. Thanks, Catherine. Good to hear from you. As you can tell, Catherine. Yeah, yeah. Please keep right in. But I was going to say, as you can tell, Catherine, you're not alone in your criticism of Ellie being too happy. We got to shift. Craig, if you're listening, I know Craig's a big fan of the pod.

[01:02:49] Big friend of the pod. Should we say that? No, because he's never been on, so we can't call him a friend. But maybe a fan. I'm just kidding. Craig Mazin has probably never heard of us. I think he's been on some other podcast networks. Anyway. Fair enough. We don't need to talk about them. They're big enough. They don't need us tooting their horns. Okay, Mr. Mazin, since we don't know each other. Mr. Mazin, I just need Vengeful Ellie already. You did a great job on season one.

[01:03:19] Season two, some great stuff going. Are you complaining again? I'm complimenting him. You interrupted my compliment of Mr. Mazin. Very good. Mr. Mazin, tear down this wall. Mr. Mazin, I am a jelly donut. Right. That is the episode, I think. Let's wrap it up, I guess. Yeah. Got so much going on. What is going on? You guys are doing Doctor Who? Yeah, we're almost done, I think. Really? Okay. Are we?

[01:03:49] Yeah, we're going to do episode six this weekend out of eight. All right. So cool. Sounds like Doctor Who's having a good season, a good run. It sure is. The last episode was really good. Okay. Episode five, the story and the machine. Really good stuff. Really good homages to Classic Who, which was great to see. That's fun. All the way back to 63, you know? Okay. We're going for it. And then we're starting Murderbot this week. Okay. Which I haven't even watched yet. We have the screeners for that. Right, right.

[01:04:18] I haven't watched it yet. I've read half the first novella, and I know Alicia's reading it too. So maybe I'll stop so that Alicia can be the book reader. She's good at doing that. Cool. I watched the first episode. I'm glad you guys are covering it. It seems like people are excited for it, and I thought it was interesting. So I'm happy to watch along on that one. Yeah. It's very... I didn't feel moved, I will say. Yeah. I mean, I've only read half of the first novella, but for me, I was like, this is your standard sci-fi fare. Yeah.

[01:04:48] But Apple does that really well. So I'm kind of interested in doing that. It looks good from what I saw. So, yeah. Yeah. You can say your general opinion of it now. We're past that embargo, at least. Right, right. Yeah. I think it looks fine. I just... My attention is elsewhere right now. You heard it here, folks. It looks fine. I know what it would be. From David Lorcan. I will say that I was not invested in watching it, so I'm not... You know, it's like driving by the restaurant.

[01:05:17] Oh, it looks like it has a nice interior to it, so... Yeah. The owner's very nice. Yeah. Okay. All right. And are we covering any other shows? I can't remember. No. There's nothing out at all, really, right now that's capturing the zeitgeist and is making news and, you know, showing up in every For You page and even on the big news things. No. Nobody's covering it. So I think it's got bad numbers. Yeah. We're covering Andor every week. And critical... Last week.

[01:05:47] Yeah. It's the last week. You're right. Which is crazy. It feels like it should be going much longer. And I do wish they had spread it out. I know what they were doing with it, but I do wish they'd spread it out. Would have made our lives a lot easier. Not even that, but like... Savor every moment. I have had such a hard time finishing... Like, finding the time to finish the arc every week. Yeah. Like, and I want to. Like, I really want to. It's not like I'm not excited to watch the next one. It's like I haven't had time. Yeah. Literally. Like, actually having the time. Yeah.

[01:06:15] Like, I stayed up last week. I stayed up till, I think, midnight or something. And that's late for me to watch all three. Like, it was... I was stressed. I was... It was hard. It was hard work. The struggle is real. Tony Gilroy, what'd you do to us? It's not his fault. It's... Well, maybe partly his. Anyway. It's probably his fault. It's probably, like, mostly his fault, actually. It's good. We're covering it. It's consuming a lot of our lives. So... Yeah. And I will be happy for it. You and Alicia will probably be very...

[01:06:45] Well, you guys are going straight into Murderbot because you went from Wheel of Severance, and she was doing a bunch of Marvel stuff, and then Wheel of Time, and then Andor, and Doctor Who, and Murderbots. It's been busy. Crazy. Y'all was crazy. I don't know why I agreed to Murderbot. But I did it, and I'm committing to it because... Okay. I think it'll be fun. I think it'll be a fun palate cleanser after all this very, very serious stuff. What else we got going on the network?

[01:07:14] I think the Radioactive Ramblings are doing some Fallout lore. They sure are. Properly Howard is not yet back, but last we heard, they were doing a Kevin Bacon season. We will see. Rings and Rituals is also still on hiatus. We'll shift dust. It's always Dune on We'll Shift Dust, so that's someday some Dune stuff will come out. And then someday Silo will come back. Yes, exactly.

[01:07:43] And Star Wars Cadent Timeline, I know she's putting some stuff out. She did do an episode for her subscribers, I know, on the new Tales of the Underworld. Oh, nice. Very cool. Which is one of the new Tales of the Jedi, Tales of the Empire. Yeah. Yeah, it was very good. I watched it. It was really, really good. You know what I would like? I would just put in a quick plug for a live-action Tales of the Empire kind of thing. I would love to see...

[01:08:10] Oh, what's the name of the ship captain that is flying Princess Leia's ship at the beginning of 77? What's his name? Anyway, he's like a very famous captain. No, no, no, no. No, it's not Admiral Ackbar. Anyway, he's a very famous captain. Captain Karelia. I want to... It's not that. Anyway, I would love to see some stuff about him.

[01:08:33] But now, after seeing a recent episode of Andor, I would really love to see the adventures of Vel as a smuggler for the rebellion. That would be... You're not going to get this in live-action. You know that, right? I know that. I know. I'm just telling you. The whole point of them is like, let's tell some interesting stories to fill in the gaps with a lower budget by going animated. I know. I know. I'm just telling you what I want. It doesn't mean I'm going to get it. Bob Iger hears that and goes, no, no, no, no. Let the heat throw through you.

[01:09:03] Yeah. Anyway, so I think that's it for me. Captain Remus Antilles. Antilles, that's what it is. Antilles, yeah. He's apparently a very seasoned pilot. Until he meets his demise at the beginning of New Hope. Spoilers for 50 years ago. Yeah, exactly. Other than that, I think we're about it. Come visit us on the Discord. If you want to support us, check out our Patreon or Supercast.

[01:09:33] And we should thank some people. Aaron K., Dillard, The Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Doof71, Athena A., Tina, LeStu, Nancy M., Ghost of Partition, and Radioactive Richard. And our lore masters.

[01:09:45] Samarshan, Michael G., Michelle E., Brian P., S.C., Peter O.H., Adam S., Nancy M., Doof71, Brian8063, Frederick H., Sarah L., Gareth C., Matthew M., Sarah M., Andra B., Kwong Yu, DeadeyeJediBob, Nathan T., Alex V., SubZero, Aaron K., Deli B., Mothership61, Norls, Kathy W., LeStu, Jeffrey B., Elisa Yu, Neil F., Ben B., Scott F., Stephen N.,

[01:10:15] Julia F., Kali S., Ilmariel, forward slash Tim, and Adrian. Thank you, everyone, for all your support, your lovely people. And so are all our listeners. So thank you so much for being here with us on our complaint train. It's fun to do these one-hour-long podcasts. Yeah. It feels breezy and light. Look, these – well, hold on. You know, before we go, since now the people who are here are only the most dedicated – can I tell you –

[01:10:43] For the people who are doing dishes and can't stop the podcast in time. Congratulations. Did you run out of dish soap? Sorry. I was looking at our main feet. And I poke fun at you and Alicia for going long on our podcasts. Right. But I'm looking at the end or run times now that we're all covering them. And I see hour to an hour 10 for me. It's like an hour 45 for Alicia. And then I pull up David's and my phone says that's longer than I can calculate.

[01:11:13] It's like three hours. And I'm like – I haven't broke the barrier yet. I have not broke the three-hour barrier. You almost did a couple times. I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. It's crazy. I was just laughing because I was like, if anything was going to prove my point, it was this experiment of us all doing an episode of the same exact show every week. So you're saying I'm the problem. I think we're all the problem in our own way. Well, my problem is that we're the anchor leg. I'm the anchor. I know.

[01:11:42] So you have to talk about all the stuff. Whereas I don't have as much to talk about because I haven't even watched the other two. Exactly. Yeah. You're stuck. Yeah. But I kept it all under – we have not come near three hours. I think it's all been under 245, two and a half. 245 is near three hours. What is our definition of near? I said I didn't break the three-hour barrier. That's all I'm saying. Okay. I have not crossed into the unknown territory. We're getting punchy. We're getting punchy. I'm cutting it off with the credits.

[01:12:11] Good night, everyone. Good night, everyone. The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds. You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact. Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds Podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds. Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.

[01:12:45] Excellent. If we release three episodes per week, the Lorehounds will never be able to cover every episode. The Imperial forces will crush the rebellion before it begins. Standby. We're picking up something on our scanners. Echo Squadron reporting in. Delta Squadron on your left. Tango Squadron on your six. With Imperial forces coming in fast, we're calling all rebels to join the fight this season.

[01:13:09] Starting after the April 22nd premiere, you'll hear three full breakdowns for each week's episodes of Andor Season 2. Each podcast will be led by one of our squadron leaders, Alicia, David, and John. We'll be bringing in new and familiar voices to fill out the roster. Search for The Lorehounds on any podcast platform to join us in a galaxy far, far away. And don't forget to check out our season pass for even more content like our Holocron bonus pods. It's good news for anyone except Darth Vader. We'll be right back.