The Penguin - S01E02-03 - Inside Man & Bliss - DCUniverse

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[00:01:11] Welcome to the DC Universe, a Comics vs. Podcast.

[00:01:16] We're the Lorehounds, your guides to Gotham City's latest party pills. I'm David.

[00:01:21] And I'm Jean.

[00:01:22] And I'm Alicia. And this is our look at the characters of the HBO limited series The Penguin.

[00:01:27] Today we're talking about episodes two and three, Inside Man and Bliss.

[00:01:34] Check out the beginning of our episode one discussion for our spoiler-free takes on the start of the series, what to expect from the show, and how it got made.

[00:01:45] But today there will be spoilers for all three episodes out so far, so make sure you're caught up before listening.

[00:01:50] We're gonna check back in on especially the three main characters, Oswald, Victor, and Sophia.

[00:01:57] As it stands now, we're planning to come back every episode or two to catch up on their stories.

[00:02:05] And we want to hear what you think about the show as well.

[00:02:08] Send feedback to lorehounds at thelorehounds.com, voicemails also encouraged, or head to our website and use the contact form there.

[00:02:15] We also welcome you to join the conversation on our Discord server.

[00:02:20] We have a great mod team and a dedicated channel set up to the Penguin.

[00:02:25] Links for everything in the show notes.

[00:02:28] And now with our spoilers out of the way, let's start to talk about what we thought of these two episodes overall.

[00:02:36] Alicia, you were busy doing some family stuff and now you're back home.

[00:02:41] I was appreciating my sister's wedding.

[00:02:43] Congratulations to her and congratulations to you.

[00:02:45] I hope it was a fun activity hanging out with your fam.

[00:02:47] Yeah, well, I mean, it was a very much more than a fun activity.

[00:02:53] Busy?

[00:02:54] A major life-changing event.

[00:02:56] Although, to be honest, like honestly, once in our day and age, what is getting married really changed except your tax forms.

[00:03:04] It's true.

[00:03:04] It's true.

[00:03:06] Anyway, Jean and I, I'm sorry, what was that?

[00:03:09] It was a big success.

[00:03:10] Good, good, good.

[00:03:11] Jean and I got to talk about episode one the other week and then we were like, oh, we gotta wait for Alicia because she, I know you're excited about this show.

[00:03:20] So give us your full spectrum takes on all three episodes up until now.

[00:03:26] And again, spoilers.

[00:03:28] So if you haven't seen one through three, we're going to get in deep here.

[00:03:31] So.

[00:03:32] Yeah, as I said in my voicemail about the first episode, I really thought it was a strong opening, especially that first scene where, you know, we see him meet someone that I assumed based on the casting was going to be a major character.

[00:03:46] And then he just kills him because he left the way.

[00:03:51] Right.

[00:03:51] And it's like, so you learn so much about Penguin in this, about Oz, I should call him because only Vidi calls him Penguin as like, as part of insult.

[00:03:59] Um, and yeah, and now we've seen over this, we've seen that, that understanding evolve.

[00:04:07] And I love all the parallels that they're drawing between, especially Oz and Sophia, but also about how Oz sees Victor as a younger version of himself.

[00:04:18] And I love how Victor is like the wild card here because we don't know, especially since he is John pointed out in the last episode, he got that, um, Robin introduction, you know, uh, from the comics.

[00:04:29] So we don't really know which side of the fence Victor is ultimately going to wind up on.

[00:04:34] And, uh, yeah, it's just, it's, it's definitely, I'm glad we're doing this as a character study because like this, this entire show that is the strength of it is these three characters and how they interact with the people, each other and the people around them.

[00:04:49] And I can't wait to keep seeing that evolve.

[00:04:52] John, what do you got?

[00:04:53] Episodes two and three.

[00:04:54] I mean, um, I think I said something on, on the discord.

[00:04:58] Uh, I think I said something on, on the discord.

[00:04:59] Akin to lies, lies, and more lies.

[00:05:02] Um, how does it catch up to him to Oz and does it catch up to him?

[00:05:07] You know what I mean?

[00:05:08] This, this guy's a hustler.

[00:05:11] Um, and he's hustling everybody around him and probably even hustling himself a little bit.

[00:05:17] And I am so keen to, to find out how this all plays out.

[00:05:23] Um, because it's fascinating to, to step into a show and just see somebody just trying to read the chessboard and make moves as things are being thrown at him.

[00:05:38] I think he tells Vic on more than one occasion.

[00:05:41] This is, you know, this is the game.

[00:05:42] You got to think quick.

[00:05:44] You gotta, you gotta get yourself out of the jam fast.

[00:05:46] You know what I mean?

[00:05:48] So watching him do those calculations.

[00:05:51] It's really, really, I'm really enjoying it.

[00:05:55] I'm really enjoying it.

[00:05:56] Right.

[00:05:56] Right on.

[00:05:57] Yeah.

[00:05:58] I, for me, episode two was a little bit more functional and didn't grip me in the same way, except until the end toward the ending of the sequence.

[00:06:11] And then there were times where my heart was pounding.

[00:06:14] I didn't know it was coming and I got really nervous.

[00:06:17] Like, how is he going to get out of these situations?

[00:06:20] And then three, I had a really hard time watching three, but not because it was a bad episode, but because I was so, I felt so uncomfortable being with Vic knowing that he's on this arc and that, that then they set up the whole girlfriend, uh, stuff.

[00:06:41] And I, I felt it very deeply discomforting because I think they're doing a good job of selling me Vic.

[00:06:51] Like I'm really connected to him and this struggle that he's going through is coming off screen and making me feel things.

[00:07:01] So I was really impressed by that level of, uh, script writing and design and, and acting that that kind of, uh, emotional, those emotional waves are, are, are coming off a screen.

[00:07:14] I've noticed a couple of times in two and three where I'll catch a glimpse of Colin Farrell just for like a half second.

[00:07:20] The first episode, I just, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:07:23] I couldn't, I could see him nowhere.

[00:07:25] And then these two I've like caught a couple of scenes, but, uh, I, I, so far, uh, I'm really enjoying this.

[00:07:33] Um, Christina Malotti is, is just killing it.

[00:07:37] And then everybody else.

[00:07:38] And, you know, I've seen a lot of, not a lot.

[00:07:41] I've seen a handful of conversation of people going like, or, or, and I've listened to some other mean line, uh, like national public radio, you know, or slate, uh, slate.com.

[00:07:51] Um, you know, their reviewers, their cultural critic people going like, do, you know, did we ask for this? Do we need it? Is it anything we're interested in? Is it good? Sure. But you know what?

[00:08:00] And I don't know that this is anything that I asked for because I wasn't, I'm not part, I'm not big on the DC universe.

[00:08:07] And then people are like, well, does it really understand what it is that it's a, you know, gangster thing in a superhero comic or whatever.

[00:08:16] To me, I know John, you're shaking your head.

[00:08:19] Yeah.

[00:08:20] The faces that John's making represent my feelings.

[00:08:22] So am I.

[00:08:24] So am I.

[00:08:25] I am absolutely, I don't care what alchemy this is, but it is working for me on every level.

[00:08:32] And I kind of love the fact that somewhere out there in this universe, there is this, you know, superhero stuff going on, but this is every, you know, uh, uh, at other levels of a superhero story.

[00:08:49] There are characters who are doing other things simultaneously.

[00:08:52] Right.

[00:08:54] And then that we get to hang with somebody like Oz, uh, and, and go through his machinations and, and see up close what a criminal underworld, you know, operation sort of looks like from, from a management level.

[00:09:09] It's just working for me.

[00:09:10] And so I love the production design, the values, the acting, all of the actors that they picked for everything.

[00:09:16] I just, it's hitting a sweet spot for me and I'm just very happy with it.

[00:09:20] Yeah.

[00:09:21] I mean, to be honest, well, first of all, I I'm starting to like get a pet peeve with people in general being like, who asked for this?

[00:09:28] Who cares?

[00:09:29] Right.

[00:09:29] Exactly.

[00:09:31] What does that mean?

[00:09:32] Who asked for it?

[00:09:32] Watch it or not.

[00:09:33] Right.

[00:09:33] Yeah.

[00:09:35] But, um, but honestly, you know, John and I have differences in opinion about the movie, the Batman.

[00:09:43] Which I've yet to watch yet.

[00:09:44] It's on my list.

[00:09:45] Let me know when you're watching.

[00:09:47] I got, bro, I got rings of power just finished.

[00:09:51] Like I've been busy.

[00:09:53] But so, yeah, so we represent the full spectrum of engagement with that film.

[00:09:58] But you know, when I came out of the Batman and the second I rewatched the Batman then before this show started to just to like refresh my memory.

[00:10:06] And, um, both times I walked away with like, even before this was announced, I was like, I would love for them to do a spinoff with the Joker.

[00:10:14] Oh, sorry.

[00:10:15] Why do I keep saying the Joker?

[00:10:16] I would love for them to do a spinoff with the penguin.

[00:10:18] Um, so I asked for this.

[00:10:20] Okay.

[00:10:21] I asked for this.

[00:10:24] Thank you for asking because we're gonna all benefit from it.

[00:10:27] So yeah, I appreciate it.

[00:10:28] Well, let's, let's work through, uh, our three primary characters.

[00:10:32] We have, um, Oswald Oz Cobb, Victor Vic Aguilera, and Sofia Falcone, the hangman dot dot dot question mark question mark question mark.

[00:10:43] I have questions, but you guys will say she's not whatever that means.

[00:10:46] That's what I say.

[00:10:47] I don't know what's going on.

[00:10:49] Uh, Alicia, where are you with Oz and especially these last couple of episodes?

[00:10:54] How are you?

[00:10:55] Uh, what, what, what have you been noticing?

[00:10:57] What do you, what are you into with his character?

[00:10:59] Well, I'll say in general, this show knows how to end in episodes and like get me wanting the next one, you know?

[00:11:05] So, um, I loved the end of the episode two was where, you know, Sofia looks at him.

[00:11:12] It's like, shall we team up?

[00:11:13] I'm like, yes, a team up.

[00:11:14] And then episode three ends with like, you know, he's been playing the Falcons and the Maronis against each other.

[00:11:22] And we see that blow up in his face at the end of episode three.

[00:11:25] So I am hook line and sinker, like all in on, oh my God, how is he going to navigate this?

[00:11:33] And please, can we get the dynamic duo of Oz and Sofia back together?

[00:11:37] Um, yeah, so that's, that's, yeah.

[00:11:41] Yeah.

[00:11:41] And to play, to riff off that a little bit, um, there's that great line in the movie heat.

[00:11:48] And I'm trying to remember the actor off the top of my head said, who said, uh, the actor who says this line, but he says, basically it's the juice.

[00:11:57] That's the action for me.

[00:11:58] It's not that we scored a million bucks and what have you.

[00:12:02] It's the act of doing it.

[00:12:05] Mm-hmm .

[00:12:06] And I don't wonder if that's what Oz really enjoys.

[00:12:11] Yeah.

[00:12:12] He's got aspirations to be the, you know, the, to run this city.

[00:12:15] That's the goal.

[00:12:17] But I really am feeling that he's more, he's having more fun doing, you know, trying to achieve the goal than actually when he does achieve the goal that I don't, I don't know that he'll enjoy it that much.

[00:12:28] I don't know, John, if that.

[00:12:30] No, it kind of makes sense because, you know, you hit the axiom, you know, it's always, it's not about the end results.

[00:12:37] It's about the journey.

[00:12:39] So.

[00:12:39] Yeah.

[00:12:40] Right.

[00:12:40] Right.

[00:12:40] Right.

[00:12:40] So you, you get that sense from Oz.

[00:12:44] The thing is in this last episode to, um, Alicia's point, this was the first time that I felt that he made a critical mistake by leaving.

[00:12:55] Sof.

[00:12:55] Mm hmm.

[00:12:56] Yeah.

[00:12:57] Why don't leave Sofia?

[00:12:58] Right.

[00:12:59] This is the first time that I felt in the first three episodes, watching everything that he's done, all the manipulation, all the moves that he's putting on the chessboard.

[00:13:09] This was the first one that I said, ah, this could be a huge mistake by leaving her with the Moronis because you just, you can't put those two factions together to try to start to make sense of what's happening.

[00:13:29] Mm hmm.

[00:13:30] This is feels like right now he's not in control of the board, whereas the first two episodes and up until that point, he was totally controlling the action right now.

[00:13:41] He's not.

[00:13:42] And I'm fearful that this is going to turn into a very, into a very bad place for him and for Vic, because Dave just set up the two opponents.

[00:13:57] And he put the two opponents on the same side.

[00:14:01] Mm hmm.

[00:14:02] And that is not a good thing.

[00:14:05] And right after she forced him to apologize to her.

[00:14:08] Yes.

[00:14:09] Yes.

[00:14:09] And you can see between the two of them, there's so much going on beyond the moves that they're making beyond, you know, we want to take over.

[00:14:19] There's so much resentment.

[00:14:21] There's, there's so much of a, it's almost like a class struggle.

[00:14:25] Yeah.

[00:14:26] You know, you used to be my driver.

[00:14:29] Don't, don't think you're on my level.

[00:14:31] Yeah.

[00:14:32] You know, don't overstep your boundaries.

[00:14:35] So it's really an interesting play on, on criminal underworld where the, there are these hierarchies.

[00:14:42] Right.

[00:14:42] And we're seeing it play out in two people who have been under the hierarchy.

[00:14:48] Like Sophia's being told to get out, you know, you have no place here.

[00:14:52] And she's looking at.

[00:14:53] And she blinks her eyes and says, oh, thanks.

[00:14:55] Yeah.

[00:14:56] Right.

[00:14:58] And, and she's looking at Oz, like Oz is the one who really has no place here, you know?

[00:15:03] So there's a lot of tension and a lot of unspoken things going on between the two of them that has a lot to do with like criminality and, and just, you know, real gangster street shit.

[00:15:19] You know, she even dings him at one point and says, you're not even a made man.

[00:15:23] Yeah.

[00:15:24] Yeah.

[00:15:24] You know, you're not even part of, you're not technically part of the family.

[00:15:28] Yeah.

[00:15:28] So, you know, what are you, what are you doing here?

[00:15:31] The back to the, the Oz and the, the juice is the action.

[00:15:35] And of course that's Tom Sizemore playing Michael Chirito in the, the movie Heat from 1995.

[00:15:43] When Pacino says to him, you know, are you know, not Pacino, um, uh, Robert De Niro, De Niro says to him, like, are you, you're in or you're out.

[00:15:51] And he says, you know, for me, the juice is the action.

[00:15:55] And there's right after he shoots, uh, Falcone, the younger Falcone, the new, uh, the new felt, uh, the new mall boss.

[00:16:04] Um, Sophia's beloved brother.

[00:16:07] Sophia's beloved brother.

[00:16:09] The, he's like full of elation and emotion.

[00:16:14] And like, you know, he, he just, he enjoyed doing it.

[00:16:18] Right.

[00:16:19] And then the, but then the, the realization dawns on him like, oh shit, now I got to clean up.

[00:16:24] This is going to be a mess.

[00:16:25] But then he just goes about doing it in a very workmanlike attitude.

[00:16:28] And then after Vic crashes the car and rescues him, he's elated.

[00:16:33] He's like, you know, do you feel it?

[00:16:35] Like, you know, this is an exciting moment.

[00:16:38] We're in it now.

[00:16:39] And he's happy that they're in it.

[00:16:42] He's happy that there is a chaos happening.

[00:16:47] So not so much.

[00:16:50] You feel bad for Vic.

[00:16:52] You feel bad for Vic.

[00:16:53] Yeah.

[00:16:53] But shouldn't we feel bad for Vic?

[00:16:56] Well, we'll, we'll, we'll get there.

[00:16:59] So Alicia, you have a note here about his, uh, Oz's brothers.

[00:17:03] Yeah.

[00:17:04] So, I mean, just because, uh, obviously John, you are the expert on the comics here, but, um, he kills his two brothers in the comics.

[00:17:14] Right.

[00:17:14] And so now all we've just heard reference to, they seem to have died at the same time, or at least they had like a co funeral or something.

[00:17:21] So now I have to wonder in this version, did he kill them?

[00:17:26] Yeah, that's a, that's a, there's so many questions here because this is an Elseworlds story.

[00:17:33] So we don't know how much they're, they're taking from the classic, you know, DC telling of the penguins history.

[00:17:42] So I, I urge everyone to hold on a little bit because you want to make a correlation between what you know of the character.

[00:17:56] But again, this is not that character, right?

[00:17:59] This is not the, the character from the DC main universe that we all know that, you know, most of us read or seen somewhere or encountered before.

[00:18:09] This is a new take.

[00:18:11] So how much are they going to bring in the previous history, his previous biography into this remains to be seen.

[00:18:20] But yes, he did kill his brothers.

[00:18:23] You think, you think this version did?

[00:18:25] Yes.

[00:18:28] I think I firmly believe this version killed his brothers too.

[00:18:31] Yes.

[00:18:32] Hmm.

[00:18:33] I, and I'm, I think I'm waiting for the moment when that story element comes out and I'm really anticipating the, the show runners.

[00:18:42] Maybe I should be careful about what I wish for because if I wish for it and it's, and it's not, it doesn't meet my, meet my expectations, then I'll, I'll miss it for what it is.

[00:18:53] But I do want to, I don't know.

[00:18:56] I, I, I, I want that to pack a punch when they, when they do wallop it with this.

[00:19:01] I don't want to see it coming.

[00:19:02] Right.

[00:19:02] I want to see it from across screen and just smack me in the side of the head and, and just have me going, whoa, you know, this character is wild.

[00:19:11] And then does his mother know if, if he did kill them?

[00:19:15] Cause she's certainly devoted to him.

[00:19:18] Right.

[00:19:18] I would guess not, but I mean, she obviously, she has dementia now.

[00:19:23] So you have to wonder what, yeah, what she, what her mental state is overall because they've painted a, a declining picture of it.

[00:19:34] So.

[00:19:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:19:36] And I.

[00:19:36] And to the point that he's paid somebody to mind, to be a distant minder, like to be across the street, like watching her kind of situation.

[00:19:45] And, and I just have to shout out Deidre O'Connell cause she's, she's great.

[00:19:52] She's, she's, she's really riveting for me.

[00:19:55] Um, I watched her in the scene when, you know, she's on the sofa and.

[00:20:02] You know, just shaking.

[00:20:04] Right.

[00:20:05] She, she has the, the, the shakes, she has the shivers and, and it's just so powerful to see.

[00:20:11] And then he puts on the, the record and, and they dance.

[00:20:15] And it's like, you know, I don't know for, for anyone who, who hasn't been around someone who suffers from a debilitating, you know, illness, but it's.

[00:20:26] It's something to, to witness when they come out of it for a moment.

[00:20:31] Like they just, it's just like a slim glimmer for a moment there, the person you kind of remember them as being as she captured that in that moment.

[00:20:43] And I was really, really, you know, impressed by, by her, by her character.

[00:20:50] I think she's doing a great job and she's so, she's so menacing.

[00:20:55] Like she's a, she's a menace.

[00:20:57] She's a menace.

[00:20:59] She's what did she tell him?

[00:21:01] What are you a pussy boy?

[00:21:03] Like, like what kind of mom?

[00:21:07] What is going on here?

[00:21:09] It worked though.

[00:21:09] It worked because that's when he's like, you know what?

[00:21:12] You're right.

[00:21:13] I got a new plan.

[00:21:14] Yeah.

[00:21:15] Yeah.

[00:21:16] So I just, I just looked at her IMDB or her Wikipedia page really quick.

[00:21:21] She's been in over 40 films and about half as many television shows.

[00:21:27] Wow.

[00:21:28] And she has been working steady since 1987.

[00:21:32] If you look at it, 87, 88, 89, 90, 90, 90, 92, 92, 92, 92, 92, 92, 93, 95.

[00:21:39] And all the way through up to 2022 with a little, you know, COVID, you know, thing.

[00:21:47] This is a working actor who knows what she is doing on screen and how to work with the camera and how to work with her script and how to work with other actors.

[00:21:58] So I don't recognize her from other stuff.

[00:22:01] She's probably, you know, I mean, she's in so many films.

[00:22:03] I've seen her before.

[00:22:04] I just didn't recognize her, but this is a breakout role for her.

[00:22:08] Yeah.

[00:22:09] I actually totally agree with that.

[00:22:11] This is a breakout because she's, she's awesome.

[00:22:14] She's awesome.

[00:22:15] And, and good for her for, you know, sometimes it takes a while for an actor or actress to, to, to hit it.

[00:22:20] And I think she, and to get the proper role, get the right role to, to really show yourself, you know, did you have either of you watched only murders in the building?

[00:22:30] Yes.

[00:22:31] Yes.

[00:22:32] In what is it?

[00:22:33] But yeah.

[00:22:34] Is it season three when Meryl Streep says, you know, and it, it takes a, you know, a particular show and a particular person to see you and then your things line up and it takes off on you.

[00:22:43] And so, yeah.

[00:22:45] Uh, yeah.

[00:22:47] Yeah.

[00:22:47] We're going to add something else, Alicia.

[00:22:49] Um, I don't remember what I was going to add before, but just speaking of, uh, long working actors who I'm excited to see here.

[00:22:55] We also have, uh, we have Shora Agdashlo.

[00:22:59] Oh yeah.

[00:22:59] Oh yeah.

[00:23:00] Who's playing Nadia Maroney.

[00:23:02] So she's, she's the wife of one of the two families.

[00:23:06] He's trying to manipulate and the one who shows up at the end and it calls him out.

[00:23:10] And I'm just always so excited to see her shout out to season three of the wheel of time.

[00:23:15] And she's going to be in, um, but it's also, it's cool that they, you know, because it becomes this whole idea, Gotham city, obviously standing for New York city.

[00:23:27] That's not news to anybody.

[00:23:28] Um, and you know, they, it's all, it's always about like the Italian mob scene, blah, blah, blah.

[00:23:35] But they gave it a new twist because then they're like, okay, so Maroney married a Persian woman and she brought in her whole family.

[00:23:43] So now they're like Italian Persian.

[00:23:47] It just adds a new twist to a trope.

[00:23:50] It's a melting pot of criminals, you know?

[00:23:53] Yeah.

[00:23:54] You love to see it.

[00:23:55] You love to see it.

[00:23:57] As a, she is, she was for me, the perfect, uh, Christina Avicerala for the expanse.

[00:24:03] Oh, there is no other person.

[00:24:04] There is.

[00:24:04] Yeah.

[00:24:06] She's, she's playing, um, for wheel of time, people who know wheel of time, she's going to play a latest at I, which is going to be awesome.

[00:24:14] This is, this is, I can't say anything about the character, but she's, she's a badass.

[00:24:21] Let's say that.

[00:24:22] Well, she certainly shows up as a badass in this episode.

[00:24:26] Yeah.

[00:24:27] You know, the way she kicks open the door of the car and just like, Hey, who do you think you are?

[00:24:32] You know what I mean?

[00:24:33] Who do you think you are?

[00:24:35] Don't mess with my family.

[00:24:35] Yeah.

[00:24:36] This is not, this is not going down the way you thought it was going down, bro.

[00:24:40] So it's, it's, can we, can we segue really quick on the New York city of it all?

[00:24:46] Cause we've all lived in New York city, John.

[00:24:48] You're still here.

[00:24:49] Yeah.

[00:24:50] Uh, yeah.

[00:24:51] It's so weird for me to see this production because I recognize so many locations and

[00:25:00] I'm like Gotham, not, I'm, I'm constantly Gotham, not Gotham in, in this.

[00:25:05] And it's, it's doing my head in a little bit, not in a bad way, but it, it, I don't know.

[00:25:11] It's, it's just doing something different to me because Gotham always, it's like, okay,

[00:25:15] you know, it's Chicago.

[00:25:16] It's just a mixture of megalopolis, right?

[00:25:18] Of, or sorry, not.

[00:25:20] Yeah.

[00:25:22] Yeah.

[00:25:23] Mega cities.

[00:25:23] Right.

[00:25:25] And, and in the Batman, they went to great lengths to, to make it a mixture on screen.

[00:25:31] So they would take landmarks from different cities and mix them together.

[00:25:34] I don't know if they're doing that as much here.

[00:25:36] And I can imagine obviously the budget's more limited here and you know, um, so they might've

[00:25:41] just like concentrated more in New York, but.

[00:25:44] Yeah.

[00:25:45] I mean, there's straight up some places like that FEMA camp.

[00:25:47] Where was that, John?

[00:25:48] That's, um, out at the industry city.

[00:25:50] Yeah.

[00:25:51] Like I've walked, you know, I've, I've stood exactly where they are.

[00:25:53] Their cameras were filming, you know, it's, uh, or on part of the BQE when it goes through,

[00:25:59] um, through, uh, Dumbo, you know, I used to work in that area.

[00:26:03] So I know exactly that twist of, of that, you know, it's just, it freaks me out every time

[00:26:07] I see it because I know it's not supposed to be Gotham.

[00:26:10] It's a great, it's a great, I mean, visually, uh, I, I like the darkness.

[00:26:17] I, you know, this is something that, that I enjoy.

[00:26:21] This is a part of a cinema that I enjoy.

[00:26:24] I enjoy crime, gangsters, criminals, trying to either get up on one another or trying to

[00:26:32] get up on, on the cops.

[00:26:34] I appreciate a show like this.

[00:26:37] This is so again, who asked for this?

[00:26:39] Well, I asked for it because it's me, it's me.

[00:26:45] I asked for this.

[00:26:46] This is something that I'm really, really excited about.

[00:26:49] And to the point where I was making the face earlier, all comic books are not, you know,

[00:26:56] bam, pow, you know, let me hit you with my special, you know, eye lasers.

[00:27:03] You know, it, it, it, it, it's, there are so many different takes on superheroes and crime.

[00:27:10] And some of them are gritty.

[00:27:12] Some of them are, are not at all for Saturday morning viewing and, or reading to your eight

[00:27:21] year old.

[00:27:22] So there's a plethora of stories out there whose tone is just what we're seeing on screen.

[00:27:31] So I wish people would take out this idea that, oh, this is a comic book, but is it really?

[00:27:39] Yeah.

[00:27:39] It is really a comic book adaptation.

[00:27:41] It truly is.

[00:27:42] There, there are no superheroes like Batman from where this universe, this story is taking

[00:27:49] place.

[00:27:50] Right.

[00:27:51] Has no powers.

[00:27:53] Absolutely nothing.

[00:27:54] You don't, he's not lifting a car up and throwing it halfway across the United States

[00:27:59] of America.

[00:28:00] You know, he, these stories.

[00:28:04] He's a flesh and blood man.

[00:28:05] Yeah.

[00:28:06] Who believes he's just a regular old human.

[00:28:08] He can be shot.

[00:28:09] He could be stabbed.

[00:28:11] So can his counterparts that the, the arch nemesis is nemesis is the arch nemesis that

[00:28:17] he has, the villains that he encounters.

[00:28:20] Many of them can be shot, stabbed or beaten into a coma.

[00:28:27] Right.

[00:28:28] Right.

[00:28:28] This is the story.

[00:28:30] So the idea that because it's gritty and it's dark and it's devoid of superpowers,

[00:28:36] is it really a comic book?

[00:28:38] Yes, it is.

[00:28:39] It's a comic book adaptation.

[00:28:41] And I just wish that the people who talk about this stuff would do themselves in the

[00:28:47] audience a favor by actually exploring comic books because not everything is, you know,

[00:28:56] X-Men and Avengers.

[00:28:58] Right.

[00:28:59] And all that stuff.

[00:29:01] Yeah.

[00:29:02] And that's interesting.

[00:29:03] And maybe that's part of the alchemy that's working for me is that this is grounded.

[00:29:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:08] That it's not, we're not seeing lasers and spaceships and magic hammers and that kind

[00:29:13] of stuff.

[00:29:14] But this is a very grounded world.

[00:29:15] Alicia, you were going to say something.

[00:29:17] I was just going to say that I am not usually one for like the crime dramas.

[00:29:22] I still haven't watched the Sopranos.

[00:29:24] I'm going to do it.

[00:29:24] I'm going to do it.

[00:29:25] I know that this is one of these shows, but it's not, this is, I, I've watched the first

[00:29:33] season of the wire and I intend to get back to it.

[00:29:36] I think I might like the Sopranos better, even though I haven't seen it yet.

[00:29:39] The wire.

[00:29:40] I'm sorry.

[00:29:41] The first season I struggled.

[00:29:43] I think it's a good show.

[00:29:44] It's qualitatively good.

[00:29:46] It's just not the genre that draws.

[00:29:48] That you enjoy.

[00:29:49] Sure, that's fine.

[00:29:50] That attracts me.

[00:29:50] Right.

[00:29:50] Yeah.

[00:29:51] So the fact that this show is speaking to me, I think that says something, you know,

[00:29:57] it says something about the, the depth and complexity and variety of the characters,

[00:30:04] because yeah, that is what's sucking me in.

[00:30:06] It's the characters and the acting and you know, it looks great.

[00:30:11] Back to some actors, the acting and the, and some of the characters, you've got a note

[00:30:16] here, Alicia, about even the girls and how they sort of make a, they, they become a more

[00:30:22] prominent part of episode three and are, are integral to the story.

[00:30:26] Now.

[00:30:26] I'm worried for them and I'm worried about them, you know, like anyone who's in Oz's

[00:30:33] orbit other than his mother, I'm like, he's going to betray them or they're going to betray

[00:30:38] him.

[00:30:38] It's going to be ugly.

[00:30:39] It's, this is not going to be like kumbaya at the end.

[00:30:42] I know it.

[00:30:43] So I'm worried.

[00:30:44] I love, you know, I love the fact that he has Eve, even though he obviously pays her,

[00:30:49] you know, she's a paid company, but, um, she's, she's warm.

[00:30:53] She's supportive.

[00:30:54] She, you know, when he asked her for an alibi in episode one, she's like, no questions

[00:30:59] asked later.

[00:31:01] She's like, wait a minute.

[00:31:04] Wait a minute.

[00:31:05] Wait a minute.

[00:31:05] Maybe she should have asked some questions.

[00:31:07] Maybe I should have asked some questions.

[00:31:12] So I'm worried that this is going to blow up in her face, but I just want good things

[00:31:16] for Eve and her girls.

[00:31:17] Right.

[00:31:19] Right.

[00:31:19] And then we go from drops to bliss.

[00:31:23] And I know there was some whinging out in the, in the world about, you know, drops and, and

[00:31:29] was that the right way to explain it?

[00:31:32] And, you know, it, it was fine for me.

[00:31:34] They didn't, they didn't work.

[00:31:35] You know, we just needed a substance.

[00:31:37] We just needed a drug and we just needed to call something.

[00:31:40] I think the twist that it's now this drug that's coming out of Arkham and refined.

[00:31:48] I think that's really interesting.

[00:31:50] And, and we were talking about the team up between, um, Miladi's character, um, uh, uh,

[00:31:58] Sophia and Penguin.

[00:32:01] He's got the distribution network.

[00:32:03] She's got the product.

[00:32:05] Uh, I think that's, uh, you know, it, it, it works.

[00:32:08] So like at all the gears sort of mesh up for, for this plot device, do you guys have any

[00:32:13] thoughts about the drug in question or John, you're going to.

[00:32:16] Yeah.

[00:32:16] I think it's, um, interesting that the drug that they're using is something that was tried

[00:32:21] out on, on inmates, on people who had no choice.

[00:32:27] Right.

[00:32:27] This was, they were in the, in Arkham and this was not something that they chose to, to

[00:32:34] take.

[00:32:35] This is something that was forced on them, at least from what, you know, Sophia's telling

[00:32:39] us, this was part of their, um, quote unquote, uh, you know, um, rehabilitation.

[00:32:45] Right.

[00:32:45] So to keep them docile, to keep them, you know, calm so that she's using this drug to give to

[00:32:55] the masses.

[00:32:56] Right.

[00:32:56] Right.

[00:32:57] That she.

[00:32:58] She's doing to others what was done to her.

[00:33:00] Right.

[00:33:00] And a grand way.

[00:33:02] And the thing is with Oz, he's making this shit up as he goes.

[00:33:08] He didn't, he didn't know about Sophia's, you know, that she had the product.

[00:33:13] He didn't know it was coming from Arkham.

[00:33:15] He had no idea that it was going to work with the triad.

[00:33:19] He's just going along and trying to make everything by sheer force of, of will.

[00:33:26] Like I'm going to, people are so, the people that I deal with are so crooked that I can appeal

[00:33:35] to them by lying and a lie will get me exactly what I want.

[00:33:44] Mm hmm.

[00:33:44] This is the opposite of what you tell yourself, what you tell your kids to do.

[00:33:47] This is the opposite of, this is totally not the morality that we expect out of our heroes

[00:33:54] or anti heroes.

[00:33:55] He is saying to you, to me, I'm going to lie through my teeth.

[00:34:01] I'm going to stab, shoot, and I'm going to climb over everyone to get to where I need

[00:34:09] to be.

[00:34:11] Mm hmm.

[00:34:11] And are you okay with that as a viewer?

[00:34:14] Because I'm rooting for him.

[00:34:16] Am I right?

[00:34:17] Yeah.

[00:34:17] What does that mean?

[00:34:18] What does that make me?

[00:34:20] You know?

[00:34:21] I want to see him win.

[00:34:22] And what does that make me?

[00:34:23] So I'm asking myself these questions.

[00:34:26] Like, should I be rooting for this guy?

[00:34:28] Right.

[00:34:29] And when he murders the Falcone or not the Falcone, the, who was the other team?

[00:34:35] Sorry.

[00:34:35] I don't have all these names in my head.

[00:34:38] Alberto Falcone.

[00:34:39] The young.

[00:34:39] No, no.

[00:34:40] The Moroni henchman.

[00:34:41] The Moroni henchman.

[00:34:43] Thank you.

[00:34:43] Yeah.

[00:34:44] I've, I've got Lord of the Rings in my head right now because just wrapping up that.

[00:34:48] So I haven't cleared out the, my, my short term storage for the, for new content.

[00:34:52] The, the, the, the Moroni, uh, um, henchman.

[00:34:58] That was just cold blood murder.

[00:35:01] Yeah.

[00:35:02] That was just straight.

[00:35:03] And that wasn't even in anger.

[00:35:06] It wasn't even a crime of passion.

[00:35:09] No.

[00:35:09] When he shot, uh, um, Alberto Falcone.

[00:35:13] And then when he's, I swear, I thought he was going to, uh, plant the knife on, uh, Vinny.

[00:35:21] Right.

[00:35:21] And I thought that.

[00:35:22] That was so good.

[00:35:23] But then he gives it to the bodyguard and he, he removes the bodyguard, uh, from play.

[00:35:29] Who's a guy that's bugged him.

[00:35:31] Who's, you know, it's payback in a way because he tortured him.

[00:35:34] And he's a guy that's just, you know, with him out of the way, he and, and Sophia can have a better relationship.

[00:35:41] And maybe he's not thinking that in particular in that moment, but he's like, I, you know, who can I set up?

[00:35:47] And it's more believable that it's the henchman than it is Beatty because they're going to go like, yeah, I would, you know, that, that wouldn't make sense.

[00:35:54] So that was like a really smart play at, in that moment.

[00:35:58] Yeah.

[00:35:59] But man, I was so nervous that whole time, like what was going to happen and how that was going to go down.

[00:36:06] Yeah.

[00:36:07] And they, and he, and he played it off perfectly.

[00:36:09] Perfect.

[00:36:10] Yeah.

[00:36:10] He thrives in improv.

[00:36:12] I just want to say about the, the, the drugs.

[00:36:15] I think it looks so cool that it's like these white mushrooms with red ooze.

[00:36:19] Yeah.

[00:36:20] Yeah.

[00:36:20] That is very cool.

[00:36:22] There are real mushrooms that look like that, but not that have this effect, obviously.

[00:36:28] But I was, I wanted to ask you, Sean, do you think the fact that it's coming out of Arkham, we know there are some other well-known people in there.

[00:36:37] Do you, do we think there might be any connection to.

[00:36:40] To any.

[00:36:42] Yeah.

[00:36:43] I was going to say any characters who like to use toxins.

[00:36:46] I, I, I wouldn't be shocked.

[00:36:48] Like, I'm very interested to see who this doctor is that she.

[00:36:52] Right.

[00:36:53] Who's that?

[00:36:54] Right.

[00:36:55] Who is he?

[00:36:56] Um, I, what's, what's the actor's name?

[00:36:58] Something Rossi.

[00:37:00] I know him.

[00:37:00] Yeah.

[00:37:00] He was.

[00:37:01] Yeah.

[00:37:01] He was in Luke Cage.

[00:37:02] He was in Luke Cage.

[00:37:04] Yeah.

[00:37:04] Yeah.

[00:37:05] Yeah.

[00:37:05] Theo Rossi.

[00:37:06] So I'm interested to see, to see his character, who he is and what role does he play with the entire drug scam that's in Arkham.

[00:37:16] Oh, he was in Luke Cage.

[00:37:17] Yeah.

[00:37:17] He was in Luke Cage.

[00:37:18] Yeah.

[00:37:18] Um, yeah.

[00:37:19] So he's been in a lot of stuff.

[00:37:21] Another working actor.

[00:37:22] Yeah.

[00:37:23] Yeah.

[00:37:24] And so we'll see, but it will be interesting because this is, this is scarecrow.

[00:37:29] This is instead of fair toxin, they're giving people bliss.

[00:37:33] And so.

[00:37:34] Oh, good pick.

[00:37:36] Good pick.

[00:37:36] Let's see.

[00:37:37] Let's see what happens if that comes to fruition.

[00:37:40] Let's, let's change gears quick.

[00:37:42] And, uh, who do you guys want to talk to you about?

[00:37:45] Talk about next Victor or Sophia?

[00:37:47] I mean, I guess we can continue with Sophia since we've already been touching on her.

[00:37:53] I am so in love with Christina Maladi.

[00:37:58] She's so cute.

[00:37:59] It's so menacing and so packed with dense, you know, she's such a dense layered character.

[00:38:04] And I love her perform Maladi's performance of Sophia.

[00:38:08] And I'm just, I can't wait to see what's next.

[00:38:11] And she's getting, VD is going to be in some deep shit with her.

[00:38:15] So anyway.

[00:38:16] Yeah.

[00:38:16] I know.

[00:38:16] I love that you said, you know, she's so cute and menacing and I love, cause I know

[00:38:21] in the comics, she's like, they make her more of a stereotypical goon looking, you

[00:38:26] know, like bigger.

[00:38:28] Yeah.

[00:38:29] She's not, she's not like, uh, the cute girl.

[00:38:31] And I think the fact that they did that for this show in a way makes her scarier.

[00:38:38] Yes.

[00:38:39] Uh huh.

[00:38:39] She is scary.

[00:38:42] Like Sophia Falcone, do not follow me down the street, please.

[00:38:50] Because I'm going to cross and walk on the other side.

[00:38:54] I don't want you to be.

[00:38:55] All right.

[00:38:55] Who, who are you more scared of her or Rio from Agatha all along?

[00:38:59] Oh, damn.

[00:39:01] Oh, Sophia hands down.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:04] It's gotta be Rio.

[00:39:05] Rio has that magic.

[00:39:07] Yeah.

[00:39:08] But what is Rio going to mess with me for?

[00:39:10] Like I'm just a civilian.

[00:39:12] I mean, why?

[00:39:14] For fun.

[00:39:15] Exactly.

[00:39:16] Just to see if she could make you dance like Pinocchio.

[00:39:19] Get out of here.

[00:39:19] I don't want, I don't want, I don't want either one of them, but I think Rio definitely.

[00:39:24] I think Rio would, would make me more afraid.

[00:39:27] I'm picking Miladi.

[00:39:28] Okay.

[00:39:29] Okay.

[00:39:29] But because I like her more.

[00:39:31] Yeah.

[00:39:31] But she's going to slit your throat.

[00:39:35] Yeah.

[00:39:36] I feel like I could be friends with, with Miladi.

[00:39:39] I think Rio would just kill me.

[00:39:41] Right.

[00:39:42] I mean, I could be on the Nostromo or I could be on Happy's Home.

[00:39:44] It doesn't matter.

[00:39:45] I'm going to die by his xenomorph.

[00:39:47] It doesn't matter.

[00:39:48] So who do I want to have kill me?

[00:39:49] But she's, she's, she's terrifying.

[00:39:54] Just with her facial expressions, the way she looks at people really captures something

[00:40:02] that is really, it's tough to describe.

[00:40:07] If you've never been looked at like that by someone in real life, like with the intent

[00:40:13] to really harm you.

[00:40:15] It's really disconcerting to watch her, especially in that scene when she's talking to her cousin

[00:40:23] and she bends down to fix the barrette and her cousin's daughter.

[00:40:28] Oh, that was cold.

[00:40:29] And she looks up at the cousin, like everything that you've heard about me is probably true.

[00:40:37] So you might want to relax.

[00:40:40] You might want to take a, take a chill, take a chill pill because those things, those stories

[00:40:46] that you obviously are thinking about right now, they're, they're true.

[00:40:53] But that's the thing about that.

[00:40:54] The cousin situation, it broke my heart a little bit because when she first approached

[00:40:59] her and she's like, Oh, remember when we used to like have so much fun in Italy and

[00:41:04] dah, dah, dah.

[00:41:04] And you could tell she was, she wants, I think she and Oz are both lonely, but they, they know,

[00:41:13] they know they have to be, but also part of them craves to have real connections.

[00:41:17] And it felt like, Oh yeah, someone from my youth who still, who knew, who knows,

[00:41:22] knew me as a little girl and still sees me that way.

[00:41:24] And then as soon as her daughter comes up and the way she clutches her daughter, she's

[00:41:29] like, Oh, you're, you're just bullshitting me right now.

[00:41:31] You don't see me that way at all.

[00:41:33] And that's when she's like, all right, fine.

[00:41:35] I'm going to play the role that you think I'm playing.

[00:41:37] I'm going to play the role.

[00:41:38] I'm going to play the role.

[00:41:40] And it's interesting.

[00:41:40] I think you touched on, go ahead, John.

[00:41:42] No, no.

[00:41:43] I was going to say, you go ahead.

[00:41:47] I was going to say, excuse me, that in this last episode though, she says she's not that

[00:41:56] person.

[00:41:58] Right.

[00:41:59] Right.

[00:42:00] Right.

[00:42:00] She's not the hangman.

[00:42:01] She's not that person, but she's willing to play that person.

[00:42:05] Yeah.

[00:42:06] If she's not, she's more than willing to play that character to either as a defense

[00:42:13] mechanism or as a way to just tell you the back, you know, backup, she's willing to play

[00:42:20] that character.

[00:42:21] So I'm really, I'm, I'm invested in finding out if she really is the hangman.

[00:42:27] And if she's not, then who the hell is.

[00:42:33] So can you lore educate me, lore, lor educate me a little bit on the hangman.

[00:42:40] So in the comics, um, so she takes on the moniker of the hangman after the long Halloween.

[00:42:46] It's a comic book.

[00:42:47] Um, it's a comic, it's a Batman story where her father's killed and she comes back.

[00:42:55] She's pretends to be paralyzed.

[00:42:57] Um, she's not paralyzed.

[00:43:00] She's becomes a serial killer called the hangman.

[00:43:03] And the story ends with her being killed actually.

[00:43:07] Mm hmm.

[00:43:08] So that's the, that's the, the grid of it.

[00:43:13] She's.

[00:43:13] And what's the, what is the, what's behind spoiler, big spoilers here for

[00:43:16] the comics?

[00:43:17] Why the hangman?

[00:43:18] What does that mean?

[00:43:19] What's the meaning of the word hangman as her sobriquet?

[00:43:23] She just took, took on the moniker because it was one of the things that was.

[00:43:28] So did she hang people or did she use the symbol or.

[00:43:32] She hung people and she stabbed them.

[00:43:35] Okay.

[00:43:36] All right.

[00:43:37] So, but there's no other.

[00:43:39] There's really no other.

[00:43:41] There's no continuing story arc with her, but that's how she got the moniker.

[00:43:47] Okay.

[00:43:47] That's how the character was born.

[00:43:49] It was born out of this.

[00:43:50] If you haven't seen, there's a Batman animation called the long Halloween.

[00:43:54] That's based on the comic book.

[00:43:56] You can watch it.

[00:43:57] It's the animation is really great.

[00:43:59] The story is great, but she comes out of that story with her father dying, broken and

[00:44:07] takes on this moniker to get vengeance on the people.

[00:44:10] She feels like of Gotham basically.

[00:44:14] Okay.

[00:44:14] And Batman.

[00:44:15] Um, and so, I mean, I get the impression that there's been, I mean, there's been, we know

[00:44:21] there's been killing of women because we saw that in the movie, the Batman.

[00:44:25] Um, and I guess that's been pinned on her.

[00:44:28] And I wonder we, she has like, so we have the Theo Rossi character, the, the shrink who

[00:44:36] hypnotizes her and she's having like these nightmares obviously about her brother, but then also we

[00:44:43] see her, you know, uh, Oz is sleeping in a safe.

[00:44:46] She's sleeping in her closet.

[00:44:48] Um, she's having bad dreams and she's waking up scratching at her neck.

[00:44:53] And so she's always like covering these scratches on her neck, but then you wonder like, is

[00:44:57] scratching at her neck because she feels like she's being strangled?

[00:45:00] Like, is this where connected to the whole hangman thing?

[00:45:04] Hmm.

[00:45:05] Interesting.

[00:45:06] That could be a potential victim actually.

[00:45:09] And we got the blame.

[00:45:11] And we also, that I didn't think about that.

[00:45:16] I have to give that some thought, but I think you could be onto something.

[00:45:19] And the, what I was about to say is that Alberto, she killed Alberto in the comic books.

[00:45:27] So she definitely not here.

[00:45:29] Right.

[00:45:30] No, but it's interesting that in both comic and in the comics, both penguin and Sophia

[00:45:38] killed their siblings.

[00:45:41] Hmm.

[00:45:41] Right.

[00:45:42] For vastly, for different reasons, because one, um, Oswald's brothers were just, you know,

[00:45:49] they were terrible to him.

[00:45:50] And so that was like an act of vengeance.

[00:45:54] And, but I think she killed, if I remember correctly, I think Alberto was also a serial killer and she and her father found out and she killed Alberto.

[00:46:08] If I can remember that, that correctly, but I'll double back here.

[00:46:13] I'll double back in the discord and, and just to wrap that up.

[00:46:17] But she did.

[00:46:19] Yeah.

[00:46:20] Here he's the only one who apparently visited her in Arkham.

[00:46:24] So it's, yeah, it's that tragedy again of, of her loneliness, but also what she going to do?

[00:46:30] She's not going to like her family, the way they treat her, you know, uncle Luca is in charge now.

[00:46:37] He doesn't, he's trying to send her off to Italy.

[00:46:39] No, nobody's or to, as VD put it, you either go to Italy or we'll say you went to Italy.

[00:46:46] Which is a pretty serious threat from him.

[00:46:49] And, you know, the, the, the, there's no, there's no ambiguity in terms of what that means, but then that that's pretty dangerous for VD to do because, you know, he, he, he's a made guy, but you can't go killing family members like that.

[00:47:04] Not, not without permission.

[00:47:06] I mean, you know, her father's not there.

[00:47:08] Her brother's not there.

[00:47:10] Her uncle clearly doesn't care.

[00:47:11] Her uncle doesn't care.

[00:47:13] Still.

[00:47:14] She's on, she's on her own.

[00:47:15] She's on her own.

[00:47:16] Yeah.

[00:47:17] She's on her own.

[00:47:18] And she's not going to forget that comment.

[00:47:21] Oh no.

[00:47:22] Oh no.

[00:47:22] Oh no.

[00:47:23] Oh no.

[00:47:24] But it does seem like she had, she had a questionable relationship with her father.

[00:47:28] We found out in episode three, you know, she was also, she was like, yeah, I wasn't super sad about him dying.

[00:47:34] Yeah.

[00:47:35] Mm hmm.

[00:47:36] So I'm really curious too.

[00:47:38] And I think we're going to get this from the show is digging more into the backstory between Oz and Sophia.

[00:47:47] So he was her driver.

[00:47:48] Uh, he said, or did something that, uh, facilitated her being, uh, institutionalized, but at the same time, like you said before, Alicia, which I think is a really good point is that they're both lonely.

[00:48:02] You know, we see Oz sleeping behind in a safe, in a safe deposit.

[00:48:06] Yeah.

[00:48:06] Right.

[00:48:07] You know, that's, that symbolizes that he, he's alone.

[00:48:10] Who does he have for companionship?

[00:48:12] Somebody that he pays for their companionship.

[00:48:14] And I, and that obviously this loneliness, I think forms the basis for his, his relationship with, with Victor.

[00:48:22] Mm hmm.

[00:48:23] But this, this wounded, this bruised relationship that happened that between Sophia and, and Oz is really interesting.

[00:48:34] And I'm really curious as to what he said or did, or what actually went down that, that caused that he, you know, he had to sort of, you know, to get close to her, this episode, this last episode and three, he had to be authentic and sort of say some stuff within the lies within, you know, all of his, his big play.

[00:48:58] Okay. So we get there, we get there partially, but I still really want to know what really happened because we know that Oz is not a reliable narrator.

[00:49:09] You know, he's not, uh, he's not a reliable source of information when it comes to this kind of stuff.

[00:49:14] So, uh, again, just like Oz's relationship is his brother's, I want to, I want to expect the unexpected bunch from the other side hitting me again from what, what went down between them.

[00:49:31] Because I think they formed a bond when he was her driver.

[00:49:34] They have a friendship.

[00:49:35] There is some affection there beyond just the fact that they're both sort of lonely in this crime family.

[00:49:42] Yeah. Yeah. I really, I don't want their partnership to be over.

[00:49:45] That's why I was so mad at him for leaving her.

[00:49:48] Exactly.

[00:49:49] I like their partnership.

[00:49:51] I think a lot of people on the, uh, on our discord too, were like,

[00:49:54] what? Don't go back.

[00:49:57] Don't leave Sophia.

[00:50:00] And yeah, and they had just gotten, they just finally like got to a good place with this whole bliss thing where they got the triad partner buy-in.

[00:50:07] And, and this is where, you know, cause there's obviously there is this jostling between them and power where Oz like, Oz is like, I want to be partners.

[00:50:15] And she's like, no, I'm in charge and you are my second.

[00:50:18] And this is how, and it's true that other people respect her more because she's part of this, you know, the family.

[00:50:26] She's made, she's, she's a family member.

[00:50:28] Yeah. He's not a made man.

[00:50:30] But then Oz does come in with the valuable Intel about Johnny Vitti having the affair with, uh, uncle Luca's wife.

[00:50:39] So they're able to blackmail him.

[00:50:41] And it's just, oh, so many like powder kegs just waiting to explode in this story.

[00:50:47] Yeah. And he does have the distribution network.

[00:50:50] He does know the streets in a way he knows.

[00:50:53] Yeah. And like you said, he, he knows where literally bodies are buried.

[00:50:58] Uh, and so he has something to, to parlay.

[00:51:02] He has something to, to play with.

[00:51:04] I think one of my questions going forward is if he somehow gets severed from the Falcons and now at the end of three, like if something goes wrong, what can he still maintain?

[00:51:15] Does he have loyalty from his distribution network or do those folks who work in the distribution network side of things recognize their loyalty to the Falcone family?

[00:51:25] Or do they recognize a loyalty to Oz himself?

[00:51:29] And can he command that?

[00:51:30] Because he seems like a jovial boss.

[00:51:32] He seems to treat people, you know, the, the people in his operational aspect as a manager.

[00:51:38] He doesn't seem to be a bad manager, right?

[00:51:41] They, they're, they're getting it done.

[00:51:43] And, and, you know, so I don't know.

[00:51:46] We'll, we'll see.

[00:51:47] And so I have to ask, um, about our third character, Victor.

[00:51:51] Um, I have to ask you, David, since you haven't seen the Batman, how did that, that opening scene in episode three, we get the flashback to the flood, which is something that we see in the Batman.

[00:52:02] How did that work for you?

[00:52:04] So good.

[00:52:05] It was so, so good.

[00:52:07] I, as I said, I posted this on the discord too.

[00:52:10] I, so in reaction to somebody else, I was confused until I wasn't.

[00:52:15] Okay.

[00:52:15] And then when I wasn't confused, I was in awe of what they did and then how that seamlessly rolls into the storyline with Victor and his girlfriend and family stuff.

[00:52:31] And the, and the, and the setup really such a great setup for his PTSD flashback and the club so that we really feel for him.

[00:52:43] Right.

[00:52:44] He's, he, he seems to have a lovely family.

[00:52:47] He seems to be a quote unquote good kid.

[00:52:51] And the, the tragedy of, uh, I could immediately put myself there watching those floodwaters coming in and, you know, feeling helpless as he's trying to call.

[00:53:07] And I think from that moment on in the episode is where I was really feeling that deep discomfort of, um, the, the journey that Vic, Victor is on.

[00:53:19] I, I don't, it's, it's uncomfortable.

[00:53:21] And I, and I really do want him to get him.

[00:53:23] I really do want him to get on the bus, but I also really want him to continue with Penguin because I want to see this go down.

[00:53:31] So the flashback was perfect.

[00:53:34] The flash, yeah, the, the flashback, the cold open flashback was excellent.

[00:53:38] And I want to see them do more of these kinds of little set piece.

[00:53:41] I love what they do.

[00:53:42] I love how they are using the show and the, and the design.

[00:53:46] Yeah.

[00:53:46] I loved getting to see more through his eyes and also just seeing like that whole, because when we saw that flood in the Batman, you know, we're seeing it mostly from the Batman's perspective.

[00:53:58] Who swoops in from his tower of wealth, literal tower, you know?

[00:54:03] And, um, and now we're seeing, it's, it's also, it's funny that, uh, the person who causes the flood is the Riddler and he does it.

[00:54:11] He's on this whole mission to punish the wealthy hypocrites of Gotham city.

[00:54:16] But we see in this, that it's actually, it's people on the ground who are most hurt.

[00:54:23] Right.

[00:54:24] Right.

[00:54:26] Which I think is poignant and I think it's really well, well, um, well illuminated, right?

[00:54:32] They really show us a, they give us a, a single character to give us the entirety of the pain that the Joker caused.

[00:54:38] Yeah.

[00:54:39] I think that's it.

[00:54:40] I think that was a great, a great, great set.

[00:54:44] I really do.

[00:54:45] Because we, when you can focus on what these great battles between these heroes and villains do to people who are not involved really,

[00:55:00] who are just going about their lives, just, you know, making dinner.

[00:55:04] And then all of a sudden, poof, they're gone.

[00:55:07] Yeah.

[00:55:08] You know, right.

[00:55:08] That's, that is something that, that I want to see more of in these sorts of, of stories.

[00:55:16] I think, um, Marvel tried to do it.

[00:55:20] And what is it?

[00:55:23] I want to say, I want to say Civil War.

[00:55:26] If I can remember either Civil War, one of, maybe it was Civil War.

[00:55:33] I can't remember which movie that they tried to do it in where, you know, before the Accords

[00:55:38] and the reason for the Accords was because of this big, you know, fiasco that happened and people died in a building.

[00:55:48] Wanda made an oopsies.

[00:55:49] Yeah.

[00:55:49] Something like, yeah.

[00:55:51] Um, so that, that to me is something that should be, doesn't have to be the entire focus,

[00:56:00] but we should have some focus on what these stories mean to people who are, you know, not powered.

[00:56:08] And they're not involved in the shenanigans of, of villainy and, and heroics.

[00:56:14] And it was really great to watch, to see his face, you know, was just like, oh, like you can tell, you can just feel it.

[00:56:26] Like he's watching the water and we watched the water come through and go into his apartment.

[00:56:35] Right.

[00:56:36] Exactly.

[00:56:36] After he, right after he pointed it out, I have to say from, from my perspective.

[00:56:41] So when that cold open started, I didn't know, I didn't realize at first it was a flashback until I saw the flood, you know?

[00:56:47] Same, same.

[00:56:48] Yeah.

[00:56:49] And, and, you know, when he, cause we didn't know his home life.

[00:56:52] Uh, so I, I didn't know if he just had.

[00:56:55] He was wearing the clothes that he was wearing when he first encountered the penguin.

[00:56:59] Yes.

[00:57:00] Right.

[00:57:00] So I didn't have any sense of time.

[00:57:03] A real, the street dude.

[00:57:05] Yeah.

[00:57:06] But I knew.

[00:57:06] But from, from my perspective that, um, when I was watching this with his family and he's like, and you know, my life on a personal note, my life has changed drastically since the pandemic.

[00:57:18] And so I look at him with his family in, they are secure.

[00:57:23] They have each other and he's wanting more.

[00:57:27] And I am before his dad even says so.

[00:57:29] I'm like, I'm like, you, you have it so good.

[00:57:32] You don't even know how good you have it right now until you're about to lose it.

[00:57:36] And then I was like, oh, right.

[00:57:37] Yeah.

[00:57:38] I lost it before the show started.

[00:57:39] I remember in the, in episode one, when they were talking about where he's from and they said like, oh, that entire, your entire neighborhood is gone.

[00:57:49] Yeah.

[00:57:49] Yep.

[00:57:50] Yep.

[00:57:50] So when he was on the roof.

[00:57:51] Okay.

[00:57:52] He was there.

[00:57:52] Yeah.

[00:57:53] Cause they, they, so I remembered, I was like, oh, okay.

[00:57:56] This is, that's why I wasn't surprised by it.

[00:57:59] And it's just like, to what David said, he's wearing the same clothes that he had on when he met the penguin.

[00:58:06] And it's just like, when he met, when he meets Oz and it's just, you know, so, um, you know, when, when, when you, you're out there, you know, stealing hubcaps, that's what they were trying to do.

[00:58:20] Right.

[00:58:20] They were trying to steal hubcaps or whatever, or take tires or rims, whatever.

[00:58:24] Um, and you're living like by this day to day, hour to hour, you know, minute to minute type of existence, which is what he was basically doing before he met Oz that could end at any time.

[00:58:40] Like Oz could have ended that kid's life.

[00:58:43] Right.

[00:58:44] He was going to, he was going to turn around and watch the sunset.

[00:58:49] Yeah.

[00:58:49] Or sunrise.

[00:58:50] He was, he was going to do it.

[00:58:52] And something maybe because of the disability, like his speech impediment made him rethink it.

[00:59:04] That's what, that's my thought because they're both struggling with the physical world and how they relate to it.

[00:59:13] And Oz kind of.

[00:59:15] I think Alicia, you had made that point about episode one with your feedback from episode one, didn't you?

[00:59:19] That, that.

[00:59:20] Right.

[00:59:20] That he saw.

[00:59:21] That he sees something in his stomach.

[00:59:23] Right.

[00:59:23] And I think it's, it's that, you know, in that moment, he's like, I see myself in him and him trying to get a better place in this world.

[00:59:37] That is not allowing him to get a better place.

[00:59:40] Right.

[00:59:41] And that's what Oz is trying to do.

[00:59:43] He's trying to get to a better place in the world that will not allow him in a world that shuts doors in a world that does not let him be who he possibly could have been.

[00:59:59] Mm-hmm.

[01:00:00] So now he's just hell bent on becoming that person no matter what.

[01:00:06] And he's pulled Vic into this chaos.

[01:00:10] He's pulled him into the, into his orbit.

[01:00:14] And I knew Vic was not getting on that bus.

[01:00:17] Yeah.

[01:00:18] Yeah, obviously.

[01:00:19] I knew he was.

[01:00:20] I'm so glad we got that out of the way.

[01:00:22] Yeah.

[01:00:23] Like, just, just commit.

[01:00:24] We know you're committing.

[01:00:25] We know you're not getting on that bus.

[01:00:26] You know, this is the life.

[01:00:27] This is the life you, you, you, you're in it now.

[01:00:31] You know what I mean?

[01:00:31] When he tells her, I can't leave him.

[01:00:34] He's not saying it because he's afraid of dying to me.

[01:00:40] I didn't take it as, oh, he's going to.

[01:00:42] I can't leave this opportunity.

[01:00:44] Yeah.

[01:00:45] Yeah.

[01:00:46] Yeah.

[01:00:46] So I think it, this raises this really interesting question, which you have, uh, as a couple

[01:00:52] of notes in the outline and Alicia is what's going on here, you know, feeling trapped.

[01:00:58] Is this abusive?

[01:00:59] Is this, you know, what, what is the nature of the relationship?

[01:01:04] We're coming out of rings of power where we have like all kinds of gaslighters going

[01:01:09] on.

[01:01:10] Forget about it.

[01:01:10] Supreme.

[01:01:13] Uh, and.

[01:01:14] Is, uh, Sauron.

[01:01:15] Yes, exactly.

[01:01:17] And, you know, he, I, I, I really loved the confrontation in the bathroom, which he was

[01:01:24] like, okay, is this, is this what you think this relationship is?

[01:01:27] As he's holding him to the, you know, his gun to gun to his head.

[01:01:30] And it is, and it isn't, you know, it's like, yeah, you could have left anytime you

[01:01:34] wanted to.

[01:01:34] He could have, but then you'd always be, if you stayed in Gotham, you'd always be looking

[01:01:40] over your shoulder because you don't know if.

[01:01:43] Oz was going to, is going to, you know, clip you or not.

[01:01:46] You'd have to.

[01:01:47] Too much.

[01:01:48] Yeah.

[01:01:48] Yeah.

[01:01:48] You'd have to really go far from there.

[01:01:51] So.

[01:01:52] It isn't, um, it, it, it, there is an abusive part to the relationship because.

[01:01:59] And the whole grave thing.

[01:02:01] Yeah, right.

[01:02:02] Yeah, exactly.

[01:02:02] He's got him scared, but he does want to, um, have something better for him at the same

[01:02:10] time.

[01:02:11] So it's, it's kind of a, a, a street, you know, a gangster street, tough love.

[01:02:17] Right.

[01:02:18] Like if you're going to play this game, if you're going to run with me, you got to be

[01:02:22] able to handle this kind of intensity and this kind of stress.

[01:02:25] Right.

[01:02:25] I mean, I feel like, well, I feel like Vic, he knows that Oz cares about him on some level.

[01:02:32] He feels confident in that.

[01:02:34] But at the same time, Oz is also like lay down with those dead bodies and think about

[01:02:38] what you did, you know?

[01:02:40] Right.

[01:02:41] Giving him his mother's treatment.

[01:02:44] That's a good point.

[01:02:45] I could have seen his mother do the same thing to Oz.

[01:02:47] Right.

[01:02:48] That's the, that's the love he knows.

[01:02:50] Right.

[01:02:50] And, and Oz, you know, when he talks about his history, he talks about a gangster, you

[01:02:57] know, seeing a spark in him and making him his driver, you know?

[01:03:02] So he's trying to repeat history here.

[01:03:04] He's trying to create a boy wonder, you know what I mean?

[01:03:08] He's trying to create his own sidekick, you know?

[01:03:11] Yeah.

[01:03:12] And Vic is, you know, when you're that age and you have nothing and you're driving around

[01:03:23] a somebody, Oz is not a made man, but he's a somebody, you know?

[01:03:30] Your family's gone.

[01:03:34] What are you going to do?

[01:03:35] Here's a thousand dollars.

[01:03:38] Right.

[01:03:39] Yeah.

[01:03:40] What are you going to do?

[01:03:42] What are you going to do?

[01:03:44] You've been.

[01:03:44] So there's a, there was a, Ta-Nehisi Coates was just on a Fresh Air interview talking about

[01:03:53] his, his newest book.

[01:03:55] And there was a quote that was presented to him as identifying something that really moved

[01:04:02] him.

[01:04:03] And this loops back to me for, for Vic in this situation.

[01:04:07] And it's, it's a line from Macbeth.

[01:04:09] And this was a line of, um, of Shakespeare that, uh, really flipped Ta-Nehisi Coates' sort

[01:04:16] of love for language.

[01:04:18] Like it, it flipped on the switches for him when he was a kid.

[01:04:20] And the, the quote is, um, the second murderer, a second, the second murderer in this scene

[01:04:26] says, I am one, my liege, whom the vile blows and buffets of the world have so incensed that

[01:04:34] I am reckless what I do to spite the world.

[01:04:39] Hmm.

[01:04:39] And the first murderer replies, and I another so weary with disasters tugged with fortune

[01:04:47] that I would set my life on any chance to mend it or to be rid on it.

[01:04:54] Hmm.

[01:04:54] And to me, that speaks to Vic in this loss.

[01:05:00] He's lost his family.

[01:05:01] He's, you know, he, he doesn't have as much, you know, whatever his thoughts are of his

[01:05:07] relationship with his girlfriend.

[01:05:09] It, it's not, it doesn't outweigh the fact that he's willing to throw in on this and to

[01:05:16] set any chance to mend it or be rid of it.

[01:05:20] Right.

[01:05:20] Cause he could be rid of this life by running with Oz.

[01:05:25] Yeah.

[01:05:26] What's one of the last thing he, things he tells his father, don't you want better?

[01:05:31] Hmm.

[01:05:32] Yeah.

[01:05:32] Right.

[01:05:33] Don't you want better?

[01:05:34] Look, look at you.

[01:05:35] Don't you want better?

[01:05:37] Right.

[01:05:38] He wants better.

[01:05:41] Also, but I was wondering, okay, so Oz, we know he betrayed Sophia in some way.

[01:05:46] And I believe he probably didn't realize that it would, she would end up in Arkham out

[01:05:51] of it.

[01:05:52] But then also he told the story cause he didn't tell Vic that he was Sophia's driver, but he

[01:05:57] told Vic the story about the first driving opportunity he got and how that guy after

[01:06:03] three months was dead.

[01:06:05] So I have to wonder, did Oz betray him as well?

[01:06:08] And then, so I started to think, you know, people are always talking about in Star Wars with

[01:06:12] the Sith, with the rule of two.

[01:06:14] They're like, why do they keep taking on apprentices that they know are just going to

[01:06:18] eventually kill them?

[01:06:20] It's like, is that the situation here?

[01:06:22] Is he taking on someone who might do the same thing that he did to the people who brought

[01:06:29] him up?

[01:06:30] Hmm.

[01:06:31] Yep.

[01:06:32] Yep.

[01:06:33] Oh.

[01:06:35] I like it.

[01:06:35] Yeah.

[01:06:36] Yeah.

[01:06:37] I never thought about that.

[01:06:39] Well, that's what we do.

[01:06:40] Isn't that what we do in the Lorehounds here is we, we, we mix up our, our IP soup.

[01:06:46] Absolutely.

[01:06:46] Yeah.

[01:06:46] I just draw the lines in the IP soup.

[01:06:50] Yeah.

[01:06:50] That's right.

[01:06:52] Will, should we, any more thoughts about Vic?

[01:06:56] Well, I just question, do you think we're going to see Graciela again, his girlfriend?

[01:07:00] Or do you think that was just a one episode, give him some backstory?

[01:07:05] And now he's, he's severed that tie.

[01:07:08] He seems to be getting close with one of Eve's girls.

[01:07:11] Yeah.

[01:07:11] Right.

[01:07:12] I think Graciela, if she does come back, it's going to be, you know, kind of a side tackle

[01:07:19] kind of thing.

[01:07:20] It's going to throw some emotional stakes into it.

[01:07:23] But she could serve just as a, as a, a backstory persona.

[01:07:29] If I were her, I think I'd be done with him.

[01:07:34] Right.

[01:07:35] Yeah.

[01:07:35] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:07:36] She's better.

[01:07:37] I hope she's done with him.

[01:07:38] Like she should just go to California.

[01:07:40] Don't look back.

[01:07:42] Like, no offense.

[01:07:42] I like Victor, but you know, just get away from Gotham.

[01:07:46] He's made his choice.

[01:07:47] Yeah.

[01:07:47] He's made his choice.

[01:07:48] I don't think she'll come back.

[01:07:49] I think she's going to be like the, like the far away thing that keeps him saying to

[01:07:57] himself, if I can just get this one score, then I could be out.

[01:08:01] If I could just make this amount of money, then I could be out.

[01:08:05] If I could, you know, she's going to be the, the driving.

[01:08:08] He's, I see her being his driving force.

[01:08:12] In his mind to say, let me just do this one more thing.

[01:08:16] And then I could go join her.

[01:08:18] So, you know, and that's how I see her playing out her character.

[01:08:22] I would be surprised if she comes back.

[01:08:25] Right.

[01:08:25] Well, so we know the other two characters that we, you know, had the spotlight shown on in

[01:08:32] relation to him were his friend Calvin, who we know we're not going to see more of because

[01:08:35] Sophia shot him.

[01:08:36] Right.

[01:08:37] Episode two.

[01:08:38] But then Calvin's cousin squid seems to be trouble.

[01:08:43] I have a feeling.

[01:08:45] Yeah.

[01:08:45] We're going to see more of squid.

[01:08:48] I don't, I, I absolutely agree.

[01:08:50] I think so.

[01:08:50] They, there's no, they gave him a straight clean shot of his face in the flashback.

[01:08:56] So he's definitely going to show up.

[01:08:58] You know, something else that just occurred to me, this is the first time, uh, is this

[01:09:03] the first time?

[01:09:05] Yeah, it has to be.

[01:09:06] It had, this is the first time that we've had Sophia, Vic and Oz all in the same room

[01:09:11] together.

[01:09:12] And, you know, she was sussing him out.

[01:09:14] Who are you?

[01:09:15] And, and she's making her appraisals of him.

[01:09:18] And then he comes out and then, you know, she says, well, we're going.

[01:09:22] Of course I cringed when, when, uh, Oz says to, to Vic, don't do anything stupid.

[01:09:28] Cause I'll, I'll, I'll know it.

[01:09:30] And of course, what does Vic do?

[01:09:32] Just like, don't have a party.

[01:09:33] Don't have a party.

[01:09:34] Don't do that.

[01:09:36] Anyway.

[01:09:37] But you made sure she used coasters.

[01:09:39] Yes.

[01:09:39] Yes, he did.

[01:09:40] A very thoughtful young man.

[01:09:44] But the, this idea that this is the first time that we have the three of them together,

[01:09:48] you know, in, in a room together.

[01:09:50] And, and these are our three principles.

[01:09:52] So it, it'll, I'm looking forward to seeing what, you know, them back all on screen

[01:09:58] together at some point.

[01:09:59] DC's all about the trios, man.

[01:10:02] Really?

[01:10:02] Is that a thing?

[01:10:03] Is that the thing?

[01:10:03] Yeah.

[01:10:04] DC's all about the trios.

[01:10:04] She should have been in that damn car with them.

[01:10:07] Yeah.

[01:10:07] Yeah.

[01:10:07] Exactly.

[01:10:08] Yeah.

[01:10:09] Cause now I'm thinking about what you said, Jean.

[01:10:10] He left her with the Moronis.

[01:10:13] That's like, now they're going to talk.

[01:10:15] Yeah.

[01:10:16] Why would you?

[01:10:17] Yeah, we didn't.

[01:10:17] I don't.

[01:10:18] Stupid.

[01:10:19] I don't think they left us with a, with a, a shot of her, where, what her disposition

[01:10:24] was, where she ended up.

[01:10:26] I'm just assuming that she's with the Moronis.

[01:10:28] Maybe she's not.

[01:10:30] Maybe she got away.

[01:10:31] Maybe she ran off.

[01:10:32] She got away in the chaos.

[01:10:33] Cause I think Vic just hit that one dude.

[01:10:36] Right.

[01:10:36] And just smashed into the one car and everybody sort of scattered.

[01:10:38] But then he makes a point to say, what about Sophia?

[01:10:43] Right.

[01:10:44] I mean, I could see Sophia and, um, and what's her face?

[01:10:48] Mrs. Moroni, Ashura, Nadia Moroni.

[01:10:51] Um, I could see them being, being a dangerous duo.

[01:10:54] Very, very, very, very, seriously.

[01:10:57] Who runs the world.

[01:10:59] All right.

[01:11:00] Let's get out of here.

[01:11:01] Uh, thanks.

[01:11:02] Thanks.

[01:11:03] Say one thing.

[01:11:04] I looked at my DC, um, while we were talking and hang, she kills predominantly cops.

[01:11:14] Okay.

[01:11:14] Oh, okay.

[01:11:15] And she, yes.

[01:11:17] And, and she does hang them.

[01:11:18] So I just wanted to put that out there.

[01:11:20] She, okay.

[01:11:20] Okay.

[01:11:21] Good.

[01:11:21] So the, the, right.

[01:11:22] And she puts a noose around them and strings them up.

[01:11:26] Yeah.

[01:11:27] And in this case, it seems to be women who were killed, but I think that it was her

[01:11:31] dad or someone else.

[01:11:32] Yeah.

[01:11:33] Who's doing.

[01:11:33] Yeah.

[01:11:33] I wonder.

[01:11:34] She was shadiness in the Batman in that.

[01:11:37] Yeah.

[01:11:37] He is.

[01:11:37] Yeah.

[01:11:37] Okay.

[01:11:38] So this is a cool mystery.

[01:11:39] Like, is she really?

[01:11:40] Yeah.

[01:11:41] Yeah.

[01:11:41] Yeah.

[01:11:42] I like this.

[01:11:42] Who they think she is.

[01:11:44] And did they make her by sticking her in Arkham even more dangerous than she sort of already

[01:11:51] was?

[01:11:51] Oh, okay.

[01:11:53] Good stuff.

[01:11:54] Awesome.

[01:11:55] All right.

[01:11:55] Uh, well, let's, let's wrap it up.

[01:11:57] Um, on the main lore hounds feed, we're wrapping up with our, our season wrap up of, uh, rings

[01:12:04] of power.

[01:12:04] We're going to be recording that tonight.

[01:12:06] Alicia, you were just able to get our subscriber movie club 11, 11 Z's.

[01:12:12] Uh, we covered pray.

[01:12:13] We got that out today that I've been listening back to that.

[01:12:16] It was a really fun podcast.

[01:12:18] Thanks for getting, getting that done.

[01:12:21] Um, and.

[01:12:22] We're doing Agatha.

[01:12:24] Thank you, Agatha.

[01:12:25] How could I forget Agatha?

[01:12:26] Silly me.

[01:12:27] Loving.

[01:12:28] That's, that's a lot of fun.

[01:12:29] You guys had a lot of fun with Nicole from nevermind the music.

[01:12:31] Yeah.

[01:12:32] That was great.

[01:12:32] The other day.

[01:12:33] Yeah.

[01:12:34] Great.

[01:12:34] Deep psychology insights.

[01:12:36] Good insight.

[01:12:37] We're is Agatha going eight or 10 or how many episodes?

[01:12:39] So it's, it's nine episodes, but the last two are, um, the last two come out on Halloween

[01:12:45] together.

[01:12:46] So eight and nine is a, yeah.

[01:12:47] Double drop on Halloween.

[01:12:48] Perfect.

[01:12:49] Love it.

[01:12:49] I'm, I'm really, this show, even my, my wife even joined me for episode three and not

[01:12:55] having any background of it.

[01:12:56] And she was like, oh, this is a fun show.

[01:12:57] This is really cool.

[01:12:58] I like all the characters and everything like that.

[01:13:00] So it's hitting, I think it's really hitting, uh, hitting well.

[01:13:02] What else?

[01:13:03] Uh, Alicia, anything that you want to shout out?

[01:13:06] What would you go?

[01:13:06] Uh, yeah.

[01:13:08] So we'll shift us gearing up.

[01:13:10] So doing two things there at the same time, uh, gearing up for season two of silo, which

[01:13:16] starts November 15th.

[01:13:17] So, uh, just released the last part of the book trilogy coverage for, for the, in the subscriber

[01:13:25] feed in the book club.

[01:13:26] And also, um, on the public feed, we are starting up with, uh, the Dune book breakdown coverage,

[01:13:34] which you're going to join for the beginning of.

[01:13:36] Sounds good.

[01:13:37] Um, and, and also, uh, watch out this week for on that feed.

[01:13:42] There's going to be the first of the spooked over specials on the Lord Hound network, Lord

[01:13:47] Hounds network.

[01:13:48] Um, yeah, we covered the craft and the craft legacy.

[01:13:52] So keeping the theme witchy.

[01:13:54] Yeah.

[01:13:54] Fun.

[01:13:55] And then on the, uh, star Wars Canon timeline podcast feed this week in the public feed,

[01:14:00] there's going to be, um, the next episode, which is looking at two episodes of star Wars

[01:14:06] visions.

[01:14:07] Um, looking at shadows of the Sith in the high Republic.

[01:14:12] So that's vision season one, episode seven and season two, episode nine.

[01:14:17] Very cool.

[01:14:18] When do you sleep?

[01:14:19] When do you fight?

[01:14:21] Oh man.

[01:14:22] Since, since I got sick, I'm on my travel back.

[01:14:25] I sleep randomly in the middle of the day and then wake up at 3am staring at the ceiling.

[01:14:34] I guess we should also mention spooktober on the main feed.

[01:14:36] We're covering all the poltergeist movies is, is what we're going to do.

[01:14:40] Yeah.

[01:14:40] And, uh, so we're getting into that.

[01:14:42] Okay.

[01:14:43] Uh, anything else that we should, um, think about that we should cover?

[01:14:48] Um, just shout out to nevermind the music shout out to radioactive ramblings just started

[01:14:53] with the, uh, was it red rising?

[01:14:55] Um, okay.

[01:14:56] They, they released an episode covering the first three chapters.

[01:14:59] I've never read them.

[01:15:00] I need to catch up on that.

[01:15:01] Yeah.

[01:15:02] That's long been on my to read list.

[01:15:04] So I got the book lined up.

[01:15:05] I just need to like catch up on the other books I'm reading for the podcast.

[01:15:11] John, you had a note or two?

[01:15:13] No, just sounds really quickly.

[01:15:14] Creature Commandos in December.

[01:15:16] Um, the first real foray into the, um, James Gunn universe.

[01:15:23] So we're going to do a versus before that.

[01:15:25] Yeah.

[01:15:25] We'll do a versus before that.

[01:15:27] Yeah.

[01:15:28] All right.

[01:15:28] Quick shout outs to our discord server boosters, Aaron K.

[01:15:32] Tiller, the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Doove 71, Athena Adjalea, Tina, Lestu, Nancy M.,

[01:15:38] Ghost of Perdition, and Richard W.

[01:15:40] Thank you all so very much for making our discord server a better place for our community.

[01:15:46] To our Loremaster subscribers, our top tier subscribers who are our cornerstone of our

[01:15:52] publishing empire.

[01:15:53] Samarshan, Michael G., Michelle E., Brian P., SC, Peter O.H., Bettina W., Adam S., Nancy M.,

[01:16:01] Doove 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H., Sarah L., Gareth C., Eric F., Matthew M., Sarah M.,

[01:16:10] DJ Miwa, Andra B., Kwong Yu, Deadeye Jedi Bob, Nathan T., Alex V., Aaron T., Sub-Zero,

[01:16:17] Aaron K., Dally V., Mothership 61, Gnarls.

[01:16:22] Kathy W., Lestu, Jeffrey B., Elisa U., Fossey U., Neil F., Ben B., Charlotte M., and Scott F.,

[01:16:31] and Adrian.

[01:16:32] Thank you all so very, very much for your ongoing support.

[01:16:35] We couldn't do it without you.

[01:16:38] Thank you to everyone who listens, whether you're a subscriber or not.

[01:16:41] We're just happy that you are here.

[01:16:43] A reminder really quick, we have a blog.

[01:16:45] If you're into writing things, go check out our website.

[01:16:48] Brian just posted a new article about detente and the Rings of Power, a really cool article.

[01:16:56] And Jean, I think you had one final thing to say.

[01:17:00] So I know this is DC, but as always, Marvel, if you're listening, recast T'Challa.

[01:17:09] The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds.

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