True Detective - S04E04 - Night Country: Part 4

[00:00:00] Welcome to the True Detective Podcast where the Lorehound's your guides to the weirdness

[00:00:21] of the long night.

[00:00:22] I'm David.

[00:00:23] I'm John and this is our coverage for Season 4, Episode 4 of True Detective Night Country

[00:00:28] on HBO Max.

[00:00:29] We're going to start off with our hot takes and then get right into a full scene-by-scene

[00:00:34] breakdown of the episode followed by listener feedback.

[00:00:37] John and I have a side back.

[00:00:38] Can we do it in 90 minutes?

[00:00:40] No.

[00:00:41] I have zero-- you said that to me a week ago and that was--

[00:00:46] I lied last week.

[00:00:47] I know.

[00:00:48] This episode's all different.

[00:00:50] So we do have press screeners, by the way, so we're recording these a little bit in advance

[00:00:53] just a few days, but we will be recording and releasing these just after the episode

[00:00:58] airs Sunday night at 10 p.m. Eastern.

[00:01:01] We want to enjoy the mystery of the show along with everyone, so we're not watching any

[00:01:04] further ahead than the current episode.

[00:01:06] So don't worry.

[00:01:07] We're not being cute about any of our spoilery knowledge.

[00:01:11] It's so hard.

[00:01:12] I was just so ready for episode 5, episode 4.

[00:01:14] I know.

[00:01:15] I was thinking-- I was just doing a rewatch before this and I was thinking, as soon as

[00:01:18] this episode-- so as soon as this podcast over, I was going to the next episode.

[00:01:23] Exactly.

[00:01:24] But the good news of this means that you can send in your feedback each week.

[00:01:28] You can send emails to truedetective@theloorhounds.com, or head over to the contact page on our website.

[00:01:36] And there we've got a contact form and a voicemail.

[00:01:39] Also, we have a Discord and we've got full channel set up there.

[00:01:43] We've got separate thirds for each episode.

[00:01:46] Links for all that stuff is in the show notes.

[00:01:50] Check us out on Patreon.

[00:01:52] Subscribers get early in ad free access to all of our podcasts, but they also get a special

[00:01:56] customized detectives notebook made by David himself.

[00:02:01] And boy, is it a delight?

[00:02:03] People are submitting things to it now.

[00:02:05] It's becoming a community driven project, too.

[00:02:08] It's beautiful.

[00:02:09] Which I absolutely love.

[00:02:11] I mean, Nancy M was sending me stuff, Josh was sending me stuff, Bettina was pointing

[00:02:16] out that she sent me a photograph.

[00:02:18] I'm really excited that that's actually what's happening, that it's becoming a community

[00:02:24] thing.

[00:02:25] Yeah.

[00:02:26] It just makes me super happy.

[00:02:27] So thank you everyone for your support and I'm having a fun time doing it too.

[00:02:31] It's very cool.

[00:02:32] Yeah, it's super cool.

[00:02:33] And thank you David for doing it.

[00:02:35] I'm glad that we have that going on and join the Patreon if you want to deal with that

[00:02:39] because that is good stuff.

[00:02:41] Maybe for other shows in future where there's some degree of depth and you've got to remember

[00:02:46] characters and all this kind of stuff, we can kind of keep going with this idea.

[00:02:50] You have me inspired.

[00:02:51] Maybe I'll do it for rings of power or something.

[00:02:53] Ooh, that would be dope.

[00:02:55] Yes.

[00:02:56] Talk about elf trees and whatnot.

[00:02:57] Somebody just asked for my elf chart the other day.

[00:02:59] Maybe I'll convert that.

[00:03:01] And the notion platform is so perfect for it because it's low, you basically don't need

[00:03:07] any programming.

[00:03:08] You just know how to use a word processor and you can do all this crazy stuff.

[00:03:10] You flick a switch and it's published live on the internet.

[00:03:13] It's wild.

[00:03:14] Well, David, we can chat more about Patreon and our show upcoming coverage in the outro.

[00:03:21] But for now, we really got to talk about True Detective.

[00:03:25] So we're done with spoiler free hot takes.

[00:03:27] We're doing the full spoiler, the whole kitchen sink.

[00:03:31] What did you think, David?

[00:03:33] This on my first watch, I was thinking that, boy, people are probably, I don't know how

[00:03:40] people are going to react to this episode.

[00:03:41] I can see fandom breaking in two directions on this.

[00:03:45] Some people going, you know, where's all the mystery stuff?

[00:03:48] And then the other side going, loving the character moments, loving the sort of struggles

[00:03:55] that our main protagonists are having to deal with.

[00:03:59] These are really dark times just as the sun is starting to come back up.

[00:04:05] As I did the outline over the last couple of days, the more that I get into the show,

[00:04:11] the more I'm just really enamored with the construction, the details, especially the sound

[00:04:16] effects.

[00:04:18] I really need to do some more research on who did the sound design for the show, because

[00:04:21] it is superb.

[00:04:24] The couple of scenes in this episode really moved me, the scene with Navarro and Tugak.

[00:04:33] And the first time I watched that at the end of it, I was really confused by it.

[00:04:37] But then I really got into it.

[00:04:39] And then the whole thing with Danvers and Navarro and Julia, it was moving in a lot of places.

[00:04:45] And then, I was worried, I was like, "Oh, is John going to like this one?"

[00:04:49] It's very nervous for what year.

[00:04:52] And then, of course, we get the weird ending, right?

[00:04:54] We get what the hell just happened.

[00:04:56] And I think that now we're into it, right?

[00:05:01] We've got five and six to go.

[00:05:03] And I feel like this is going to be analogous to, you know, when you're running down a hill

[00:05:09] and you can start to feel gravity overtake your ability for self-control, and you just

[00:05:14] start getting pulled down, and so you're just doing everything you can to keep your arms

[00:05:18] and your legs moving so that you can, you know, not go tumbling down.

[00:05:22] Do you go running down a lot of hills, David?

[00:05:24] As a child, I did.

[00:05:25] As a child, sure.

[00:05:26] I was going to say, "Is this like a thing you do in adulthood?"

[00:05:28] Because I don't...

[00:05:29] I can't remember the last time I ran down a hill.

[00:05:32] Not as a 50-plus year old man, but no, I do not.

[00:05:36] But that's what it feels like that we're heading towards.

[00:05:39] So I really, fingers crossed, five and six are going to be an absolute whirlwind of a

[00:05:44] show, and we're going to really end this.

[00:05:47] I think just left stunned.

[00:05:49] I mean, she's been...

[00:05:51] Her direction and her writing have been so confident that editing is so good, that actors

[00:05:56] are just nailing it.

[00:05:58] So yeah, another great episode, not great in the same way of like, "Oh man, I'm really

[00:06:04] jazzed and pumped."

[00:06:05] More like, "Ooh, this is some heavy stuff," and our characters are really dealing with

[00:06:09] them things.

[00:06:10] So what do you think?

[00:06:12] My favorite episode yet.

[00:06:13] I know you were nervous about what I would feel about it, but I finally feel like I've

[00:06:18] got a grip on the characters.

[00:06:20] I feel like there are stakes for me now.

[00:06:25] The whole thing with Julia was just heartbreaking, really made me care about Navarro more than

[00:06:30] I did before, because Navarro puts on the tough guy thing, but she does have a lot of

[00:06:33] heart underneath.

[00:06:34] Totally.

[00:06:35] And it showed this episode, right?

[00:06:38] And it showed in the way that she let the news out too.

[00:06:42] She goes, "Go with your family with a prior junior," but she tells Danvers, right after

[00:06:52] Danvers goes on a long rant about how there's no "Heavittor Hell" or "Ava Life at All,"

[00:06:57] and that was just a beautiful writing, beautiful, beautiful, and heartbreaking writing.

[00:07:03] I thought there was plenty of mystery.

[00:07:05] I was like, "Who the heck is this new guy coming in here?

[00:07:09] What is with this new supernatural stuff?

[00:07:11] We're seeing more entities.

[00:07:13] I like the seating of Rose not being who she portrays herself to be, and it's great.

[00:07:22] I thought that they did a fantastic job moving those character arcs forward.

[00:07:26] And for me, I don't care about a mystery unless I care about who it's affecting.

[00:07:31] Got it.

[00:07:32] I now care about the characters involved and the character is solving it, and that is so

[00:07:37] important for me to move forward with this.

[00:07:40] So I'm really glad that I stuck it out because every episode I've gotten a little closer,

[00:07:46] but this episode I felt propelled me forward several steps of enjoyment.

[00:07:51] That's great.

[00:07:52] I really appreciate what they did here.

[00:07:54] A note about the writing, too, there's a style to her writing which is very real.

[00:08:04] The way that people are talking with each other isn't this kind of extemporaneous fictionalized.

[00:08:11] Well, these two characters, I need to make these two characters say these certain things

[00:08:14] to each other.

[00:08:16] This is all very down to earth.

[00:08:19] It's very grounded.

[00:08:21] It feels like and it sounds like people actually, as we interact in our normal daily lives.

[00:08:28] And I think that's a really hard thing to pull off because you have to be extemporaneous

[00:08:33] for the audience to be included.

[00:08:35] But at the same time, we know that when writing is too exposition forward, it sounds off as

[00:08:42] well.

[00:08:43] So she's really hitting that fine balance.

[00:08:44] And then for that to reach through the characters and to have you then attached to the characters

[00:08:52] is great.

[00:08:54] That makes me really happy that you're starting to enjoy the show at the same level.

[00:08:59] Also, I will say on the writing, she's very good at writing believable dialogue.

[00:09:04] I don't know.

[00:09:05] Did you write every script?

[00:09:07] I believe so.

[00:09:08] I don't know if she had a room or not.

[00:09:10] I would assume that she had a writer's room of some size.

[00:09:14] And beyond what you're saying, I think that the dialogue, the phrasing and the word choice

[00:09:19] is really good.

[00:09:22] I remember people were writing in because I was complaining about and you were complaining

[00:09:26] about too, the cursing on foundation and it's not that I didn't need a curse in it.

[00:09:34] You can swear and science fiction is not going to completely take me out of it.

[00:09:38] That's a good example of that.

[00:09:41] But boy, was it awkward?

[00:09:44] Like every time Selver harden swore, I was like, man, no one talks like this.

[00:09:50] This is not something that ever comes out of anybody's mouth.

[00:09:54] And this finally felt like the way that they go, fuck you, no, fuck you.

[00:09:59] You know what I mean?

[00:10:00] That's so it feels so real.

[00:10:02] And I love it.

[00:10:03] Peter was leaving and just not saying anything, you know, or when Kayla says, you know, I

[00:10:10] just want to go to sleep.

[00:10:11] And then what Peter says, devastating.

[00:10:14] But like I've been in those conversations and arguments and you know, I don't have that

[00:10:19] much drama on my life, but you know, a normal amount.

[00:10:23] And it felt so real and it felt so believable, the way that the actors were delivering the

[00:10:29] lines.

[00:10:30] Yeah.

[00:10:31] So I think this has been a strength of the series from the beginning.

[00:10:35] Going back to episode one, you have that car accident where, you know, they're almost

[00:10:40] hit by the drunk driver in the car and he, yeah, and right after that, right after that

[00:10:47] Lee is immediately like she's 16, by the way, right?

[00:10:49] Like she's in her head.

[00:10:51] She's still in her head in her teenage drama.

[00:10:53] And I think that that was so realistic.

[00:10:55] And that's what that's what made me think the show had potential.

[00:10:58] Things like that was these little bits of dialogue that felt like they rang true, right?

[00:11:03] Like a teenager being hyper focused on their own drama.

[00:11:06] I think that that feels like a real conversation between the step mom and the step daughter.

[00:11:10] Right.

[00:11:11] That's anyway, so pretty into the writing.

[00:11:15] That's that's basically what I want to say there.

[00:11:17] 100% agree.

[00:11:18] Hard.

[00:11:19] All right.

[00:11:20] So.

[00:11:21] Quick notes, David.

[00:11:22] Yes.

[00:11:23] Quick notes.

[00:11:24] Sorry.

[00:11:25] Just a couple of things.

[00:11:26] And then we're going to get right into it.

[00:11:27] Thank you.

[00:11:28] What types of ghosts do you think we have seen so far of the three types?

[00:11:34] I think all three.

[00:11:35] You think so?

[00:11:36] Yeah.

[00:11:37] I was counting them up, and I didn't think we didn't have more than number two and number

[00:11:44] three.

[00:11:45] I was trying to think of what is number one?

[00:11:48] Number one is the ghosts who miss you.

[00:11:50] Oh, I think Travis is that.

[00:11:52] Yeah, but he told her something.

[00:11:56] All right.

[00:11:57] So I kind of put him in two.

[00:11:59] Okay.

[00:12:00] All right.

[00:12:01] I would say the one that needs to tell you something would be the ghost that Navarro

[00:12:10] saw pointing at the murderer in that flashback.

[00:12:15] Right.

[00:12:16] You know, you saw something and then the woman's ghost was like pointing at him.

[00:12:21] Oh, right.

[00:12:22] Right.

[00:12:23] Mm-hmm.

[00:12:24] At least that's how I read that scene.

[00:12:25] Maybe you read it differently.

[00:12:26] You couldn't really see what she was pointing at, but I assumed she was being like, he killed

[00:12:29] me.

[00:12:30] Right.

[00:12:31] Kind of thing.

[00:12:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:12:33] Interesting.

[00:12:34] And then the ghosts that want to take you with them, I would say, are the ones under

[00:12:35] the bed, you know?

[00:12:36] Yeah.

[00:12:37] Exactly.

[00:12:38] Yeah.

[00:12:39] That's pretty good.

[00:12:40] I was trying to think I couldn't think of a ghost number one type.

[00:12:42] I mean, unless Holden, but is Holden trying to tell something or is Holden just saying,

[00:12:47] "I miss my mommy."

[00:12:49] Mm-hmm.

[00:12:50] I don't know.

[00:12:51] Good question.

[00:12:52] Yeah.

[00:12:53] Right in.

[00:12:54] There's something else that I had been missing, and a number of people on our Discord were

[00:12:59] talking about it.

[00:13:00] And then there's a really great Reddit post, which I've linked on the Detectives Journal,

[00:13:05] but I also threw a link in the episode three channel on the Discord was that twist and

[00:13:12] shout the music various incantations of the music are all over the season and all over

[00:13:18] these episodes.

[00:13:19] And somebody went through and posted on Reddit a really great breakdown of where they

[00:13:23] all are.

[00:13:25] And speaking of ghosts, I don't wonder.

[00:13:29] This is my theory going forward on this right now is that twist and shout is the spirit world's

[00:13:36] way of trying to contact Liz, but she's not receptive to other communication.

[00:13:44] And so music is being used to try to, you know, speak to her in some way.

[00:13:49] Mm, yeah, I'm not sure what they're trying to say in general with the twist and shout.

[00:13:55] That's doing a very shallow song, which is why it's bizarre to me.

[00:14:01] But maybe, I think you're right, I think maybe there's some kind of deeper meaning that we

[00:14:04] just don't know right now, because she was, she was kind of reacting to it, right?

[00:14:07] At some point, when it was on on Solal.

[00:14:10] Yeah.

[00:14:11] And then when Wheeler, apparently Wheeler was whistling that when they busted into his,

[00:14:19] his cabin.

[00:14:20] And then the refrigerator, remember when she was putting the turkey way and Leah came back,

[00:14:26] people have said that that's what she was hearing.

[00:14:29] Like the refrigerator was humming that tune.

[00:14:32] And there's several other places where snippets of it are heard and, yeah, and it is, it's

[00:14:42] a shallow song, a shallow in the sense that it doesn't have, it's not a Billy Eilish song

[00:14:47] about it.

[00:14:48] It's like go dance, right?

[00:14:49] Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:50] That's what the song is.

[00:14:51] Yeah, literally.

[00:14:52] And so why, why is this this thing?

[00:14:56] We thought at first that it was just this weird trigger for her trauma, but it's showing

[00:15:02] up in more and different ways.

[00:15:04] You've got this note about the color teal.

[00:15:06] Yeah, I heard this.

[00:15:07] I heard Joanna Robinson talking about this on the Ringer podcast.

[00:15:10] They apparently the color teal is all over the season, rooms, clothing, lighting effects,

[00:15:21] and some people have been digging into color theory.

[00:15:24] It's one of the clue areas that I've not gone down.

[00:15:27] One of the clue rabbit holes I've not gone down.

[00:15:31] So I didn't know if anybody else had thoughts on the color teal, but I wanted to encourage

[00:15:36] folks to write in if they had some things that they wanted to discuss around the color

[00:15:43] schemes that we're seeing.

[00:15:45] I'm going to call that one as a Markley, but sure.

[00:15:49] Well, and then this gets in this whole semiotics, which is a whole other thing.

[00:15:53] We need to talk when we get to Leah, we got to talk about lighthouses.

[00:15:56] Okay.

[00:15:57] Yeah, I meant more like I'm thinking like maybe it's just aesthetic of nighttime, right?

[00:16:04] This goes well with the blue buttons.

[00:16:05] I don't know.

[00:16:06] I don't know.

[00:16:07] I mean, maybe it does mean something, but sometimes the color is just the color.

[00:16:12] Sometimes it is just a Markley, some.

[00:16:16] That's the fun.

[00:16:17] It's the fun of it, right?

[00:16:18] Yeah.

[00:16:19] Yeah.

[00:16:20] All right, David, shall we seen by scene?

[00:16:22] We shall.

[00:16:23] We shall.

[00:16:24] Okay.

[00:16:25] We've got a cold open on this episode.

[00:16:27] We go from the static of the HBO logo to Liz's white noise machine.

[00:16:32] Danvers can't sleep, so she reviews the NEK video.

[00:16:36] She checks on Leah.

[00:16:38] Can I tell you the funny thing when I started this episode?

[00:16:42] Yeah.

[00:16:43] I had the baby monitor on in the background, which there's a fan.

[00:16:47] There's a fan in my kid's room.

[00:16:51] And so there's always a his coming from the baby monitor.

[00:16:53] And I'm like, man, this monitor is really loud.

[00:16:56] Like why can't I?

[00:16:57] I'm lowering the volume and it's not lowering and it was just the show.

[00:17:01] It's awesome.

[00:17:02] It was just continuing.

[00:17:03] That's awesome.

[00:17:04] So again, it's this diegetic, non-diegetic music that's transitioning the boundaries

[00:17:08] between our physical reality and the show's reality and then the show's reality.

[00:17:14] I don't want to live in the show's reality.

[00:17:16] It seems very awful.

[00:17:18] Yeah.

[00:17:19] Not nice right now.

[00:17:20] So, and then that's in a number of other places where we have music bleeding over between

[00:17:25] two different scenes or multiple scenes.

[00:17:27] It's just, it's really great.

[00:17:29] I couldn't help but think when she goes in to check on Leah, what parent hasn't done

[00:17:36] this same thing, right?

[00:17:39] Go in and sort of, you know, your child's totally asleep and you kind of tuck them in

[00:17:44] a little bit or move them there.

[00:17:46] You just need to do something to feel like you parented.

[00:17:48] Exactly.

[00:17:49] It's for you.

[00:17:50] It's not for them.

[00:17:51] Completely.

[00:17:52] Completely.

[00:17:53] It goes to the depth of Liz's feelings towards her stepdaughter, you know, which makes it

[00:18:02] even more tragic what happens later on, I think.

[00:18:05] I think that, and you know, to Leah's credit, I don't think that Liz has really done a good

[00:18:15] job of expressing her love for Leah.

[00:18:18] This is a terrible job.

[00:18:20] One might say that she's withholding.

[00:18:24] Yes.

[00:18:25] And if she would just act like this when Leah is awake, Leah might not feel the need to

[00:18:30] find a sense of belonging elsewhere.

[00:18:34] Not to say that she shouldn't go with her, you know, her roots and try to, you know,

[00:18:39] discover more about her birth culture, but I will say, you know, she might be getting

[00:18:45] into the in league with some iffy people that are within that community just to feel

[00:18:54] like she belongs, right?

[00:18:55] The people, you know, there's a lot of people who are very inviting because they know that

[00:18:58] what they're doing is unpopular.

[00:19:01] And this is something where, yeah, they're going and tagging the mind and sure, that

[00:19:06] does kind of send a message, but also Leah clearly did it in a way that was.

[00:19:11] Rebellious.

[00:19:12] Easily caught.

[00:19:13] Right.

[00:19:14] That's the door.

[00:19:15] Right.

[00:19:16] Right.

[00:19:17] Not smart.

[00:19:18] Oh, security is not going to drive past the front door.

[00:19:19] Right?

[00:19:20] No, not like there's probably not security around that place regularly given that the

[00:19:26] fact that they're attracting this kind of attention.

[00:19:28] So yeah, I mean, all kids are going to rebel, right, or, and they're going to try to push

[00:19:33] away and differentiate.

[00:19:35] That's normal.

[00:19:36] Yeah.

[00:19:37] But yeah, doing it in a way that doesn't end up with a entry on your criminal record,

[00:19:42] like you don't have a criminal record database, you know, entry on yourself.

[00:19:46] Right.

[00:19:47] And, you know, that's, we should really talk about it when we get there, but I will say

[00:19:51] that, you know, that's the difference oftentimes between people who, kids who end up with a

[00:19:56] criminal record and kids who don't is sometimes a kid does something stupid, but their parent

[00:20:00] fights for them, just like members bought for Leah here.

[00:20:03] Even though Leah doesn't see it.

[00:20:05] And right.

[00:20:06] Exactly.

[00:20:07] But my point is having an advocate is such a powerful thing for a child.

[00:20:11] And that's something that you can't fix with school budgets.

[00:20:14] You can't fix with, you know, you know, free lunch or anything like that.

[00:20:19] Like you, you need that to come from the home.

[00:20:21] You need an advocate from the home.

[00:20:23] And it's, it's so sad that Leah doesn't see what she has there.

[00:20:27] Yeah.

[00:20:28] Yeah.

[00:20:29] And it's sad that Danvers can't be a more functional parent.

[00:20:34] Yeah.

[00:20:35] Exactly.

[00:20:36] It's not a fault that she doesn't see it.

[00:20:38] I'm saying it's tragic that she does not see it.

[00:20:41] Yeah.

[00:20:42] You know, something that we, that we haven't talked about, and I don't hear a lot of talk

[00:20:46] about because we're all focused on the mystery and, you know, what's going to happen is

[00:20:49] it could be rational or paranormal is the absence of Leah's mother and the absence

[00:20:56] of Peter's mother.

[00:20:59] We have key women in, in key people's lives, just gone, Navarro's mother.

[00:21:06] So that makes me...

[00:21:07] Well, what's that trope?

[00:21:09] The woman always dies.

[00:21:10] Yeah.

[00:21:11] Well, and she's using it in this way, Lopez is in, I think in this way, in this broader

[00:21:18] contextual way, saying, okay, world, misogyny, violence against women, a lot of, you know,

[00:21:27] women who are missing and murdered, what does that do to us as a society?

[00:21:33] What does that do to our social bonds and our, our connectivity with each other?

[00:21:38] Of course tragedies are going to happen and people get ill and car crashes happen, that

[00:21:41] kind of stuff.

[00:21:44] But this idea that there's a whole, just all of these parents are just gone, that messes

[00:21:54] with people really badly, really badly.

[00:21:58] And I think that's part of this larger stakes of what's happening in the real world where

[00:22:04] the show is sort of putting a spotlight on that.

[00:22:07] Yeah.

[00:22:08] Yeah.

[00:22:09] And you know, this show has done a great job of highlighting violence against women, violence

[00:22:14] against targeted communities, you know, indigenous communities in particular and it's, it's a

[00:22:19] great thing that they're doing, it's, it's, it's a lot of sad stuff, but it's, it's good

[00:22:24] subjects that are not talked about enough, right?

[00:22:28] But we are going to wait till later to talk about the anti-K video because there's more

[00:22:31] lore to be had on that, I think.

[00:22:33] Okay, we'll talk, all right, we'll talk about it later because we're going to talk about

[00:22:36] the fossilized remains that are there in the ice.

[00:22:39] Yeah, let's talk about that when we get to Mr. Mr. Maps.

[00:22:43] Okay.

[00:22:44] All right.

[00:22:45] Fair enough.

[00:22:46] Yeah, that works.

[00:22:47] That's good.

[00:22:48] All right.

[00:22:49] The title card gives us the date of December 24th, the seventh day of night, Danvers is

[00:22:52] driving to work and Peter informs her that the bodies are being packed up to be shipped

[00:22:57] to Anchorage.

[00:22:58] She encounters Jules who's having an episode.

[00:23:02] Boy, the minute that Jules was stripping in the street, I had a feeling that was the

[00:23:09] end of her this episode.

[00:23:11] Right.

[00:23:12] And I think we could have all predicted something terrible was going to happen to her even earlier

[00:23:16] in the season.

[00:23:18] But yeah, this, this was her downfall already.

[00:23:21] Yeah, you can see it coming.

[00:23:24] And again, Danvers with her maternal instincts kicking in in the crisis moment.

[00:23:32] In the crisis moment, she's there.

[00:23:34] She's spot on.

[00:23:35] She knows how to deal with it.

[00:23:37] She's, you know, I mean, that's the first thing that she does when they almost get hit

[00:23:42] by Stacy Chalmers.

[00:23:44] She checks on Leah.

[00:23:45] Are you okay?

[00:23:46] You're not hurt.

[00:23:47] Okay.

[00:23:48] I'm looking at you.

[00:23:49] You're not bleeding anything.

[00:23:50] You're fine.

[00:23:51] You're fine.

[00:23:52] It's okay.

[00:23:53] It's all of the emotional stuff.

[00:23:55] A lot of people are good in crisis response, but are anxious people overall.

[00:24:00] Right, I mean she gets an elbow to the face and is like cool. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I mean, she'd be in a good cop there. Hopefully she can be a good cop in other situations. And I don't know if that's always true. After the opening credits, Navarro comforts her sister at the station. Danvers and Navarro agree they need to discuss the video. Peter then watches the crew from Anchorage packing up at the ice rink and Evangeline takes jewels to the lighthouse.

[00:24:29] So Peter watching the corpse are all getting packed up. I couldn't help but think that he might have had some sad boy vibes going on here. This is probably the biggest case he's ever going to work in his life.

[00:24:50] He's going to have other stuff in his professional career. Other things will happen and big things will happen but not like this. This is it. Well, I think that the doctor is kind of scouting him for state police force now.

[00:25:08] For like the headquarters. I'm making a joke. Oh Ted. Yeah Ted. Yeah. I think he's considering bringing him on as a companion. Yeah. Right. Yeah. He's like, oh, that kid has a lot of potential. And you can see Danvers kind of get a little protective of him. I think that's true. Yeah. I didn't think about my guy leave him alone. Yeah. Yeah. This is my protege. Yeah. This is my protege to the point that he's going to ruin his family relationships because that's the model I'm teaching him.

[00:25:35] Pete should transfer. I support that. First of all, get away from this town that's falling apart. But Kayla's family's all there. Ah, that's true. That's her community, right? So. Well, all right. Well, I take it back. I take it back.

[00:25:53] It's tragic. It's tragic. This is the tragedy of the scenario of the situation. Right. And probably being a police officer is one of the only well paying jobs in this town.

[00:26:03] That's a good point. And that's even with police officers not really making all that much in town like this anyway. In general. Yeah.

[00:26:10] The really noticed the comradery that Liz and Angie had together in this scene. There's so much that's pulling them together. And Lopez talks about this, the respect and admiration that they have for each other.

[00:26:28] And that Liz can empathize and identify with Angeline, Evangeline at the same time and when it's offered, you know, Angie's like, thank you. Like, I appreciate it.

[00:26:44] You looked after my little sister. That's huge. That's so important to me. Yeah. And so seeing the healthy, normal part of the relationship was a nice little moment.

[00:26:57] Which actually then now that I think about it really sets up for later, right? Because we have this nice, very sane moment when things are going to get insane down the road.

[00:27:08] Indeed. All right. At the station, Peter has a lead on medical records regarding similar injuries. Danvers and Ted Connolly talk. They flirt in their own weird way. And there, there was the fuck you, right?

[00:27:21] Yes, exactly. Fuck you. Fuck you. That felt really natural. You know, it's funny.

[00:27:25] I think that Christopher Eccleston has been doing an amazing job with his American accent. This was the one scene. I was listening to him very closely.

[00:27:33] There were a few vowels that I was like, that's turning a little Northern English there. Just a few vowels. I think I think it's in the he has these exaggerated R's.

[00:27:44] Okay. And that's great. But that he, you know, you know, it's a, it's a subconscious thing that you got to worry about. But I mean, overall, I think one of the better American accents by an Englishman.

[00:27:55] Second only to Gregory House, you know. Right. Right. Yes. Fair enough. We learn that Ted's going to run for mayor. That's exciting.

[00:28:05] I don't, I think she's just busting his balls. No, he's running for mayor. Oh, he is. Yeah. For sure. Why would he do the teeth whitening thing?

[00:28:14] I don't think mayor. Why, why mayor of Anchorage? Why not? That's, that's where he's going. Yeah. All right. All right. That's what he wants to do.

[00:28:23] Great for him. Great for him. Is that like an Eric Adams joke? Like mayor of New York City, who was who was a police officer? Oh, maybe. I don't know. Well, you know, it's a, it's a pathway. It's a, it's a valid pathway.

[00:28:33] Yeah. And when we learn that he was not a good police officer as, as Danvers was. So, yeah, that's probably why he's chief because he's political, right? He's a political animal as well as a political animal that he is a detective or a police officer.

[00:28:49] Well, unfortunately. But that's a skill, right? Like, okay, I'm, I'm going to bring in something that has a political connotation, but I'm not going to take a stance on it. So don't worry.

[00:28:58] But like, okay, look at what's happening at the border right now, right? You have Texas and the federal government fighting over who can control the border down there.

[00:29:08] Right. Well, there are definitely places for policy experts and places for enforcers there. What you need negotiating that are not people on the ground. You need people who can work with each other and who can get along with each other.

[00:29:23] Sure. And who can be interpersonal and say like, what can we agree on? And I think Ted's better at that than Liz. Liz is just like.

[00:29:31] She's a fine-tuned instrument. I'm not going to say she's a blunt instrument, but it's kind of like taking a fine-tuned instrument and hacking away at it, hacking away at something with it, whereas I think Navarro is kind of the blunt force sometimes.

[00:29:48] I would almost go to, I guess, like quality with Danvers and her investigative skills, to somebody who's, say, a mathematician or theoretical physicist or a music conductor.

[00:30:04] I'm thinking of the movie Tarr, you know, things like this, where somebody is so powerfully moved by what they work on and we're all idiots because we don't get it on the same level that they do.

[00:30:16] Right, that there's some sort of ego identity thing going on there. And she's a really good investigator. Everybody else is shit at their jobs.

[00:30:25] Right. It's like that. She's so into what she does that she can't see that anybody else can't be as good as she is.

[00:30:35] Yeah, but I think the point is like Sherlock needs Watson because Watson is the one who makes sure that people don't kick his fucking ass and Watson is the one who makes sure that the police chief keeps coming back because you piss enough people off, doesn't matter how good you are.

[00:30:52] So she's a Sherlock without a Watson. Or is Pete her Watson?

[00:30:58] I don't think Navarro can be her Watson. She throws a few too many punches. Right. And Navarro is too ego strong in her own right to, you know, so you've got two two alphas in there to go to the alpha beta thing but you know, you've got two top dominance.

[00:31:14] They can't be in that position. It's too much friction. I love the humor when Connolly goes to water the dead plant that he smells the bottle first.

[00:31:25] Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you're going to take my office too. Yeah. I love. They really are very good at busting each other. That's, I really like that about the dialogue in all these scenes between those two and also her and Navarro.

[00:31:38] And the levity, just having a little bit of levity in this story really makes the whole story go down a much easier.

[00:31:44] You definitely needed it in this episode. Hmm. Yeah. Dark episode.

[00:31:50] Speaking of dark jewels checks in at the community center since she has the darkest spotlight on this whole thing.

[00:31:58] Evangeline promises to visit for Christmas.

[00:32:02] So this is the last time they see each other. Yeah. And as the scene ends, the way that the camera pulls back down the hall is exactly like it does in the end of episode three when they're all watching the any K video.

[00:32:19] And the way that it's pulling back, it's the same camera movement sort of receding down this hallway.

[00:32:26] And I can't help but also feel like this goes with this whole water motif that we have in the opening credit scene and of course what happens with jewels is that the drowning person is receding from the person on the surface.

[00:32:46] So Navarro's there standing at the end of the hall and we're the drowning person, you know, sinking deeper and deeper further and further away.

[00:32:54] And that camera movement really accentuates that emotional sense of something's happening here.

[00:33:02] Yeah. Yeah. As soon as she checked in, I was like, this isn't going to go well. Whatever. I didn't think she was going to die like that.

[00:33:09] I thought I thought someone was going to happen in a room or something, but it was shocking the way she died too.

[00:33:16] Really touching scene. The great acting by both of these actors. I'm just so impressed by what Callie Reese is able to deliver.

[00:33:27] It's, you know, when we've remarked on it multiple times and, you know, I'm going to keep remarking on it because it is so good.

[00:33:33] So at the station, Peter has a Christmas present for Danvers. It's Otis Heis, what a delight.

[00:33:41] He's a German national and he has the same kinds of injuries as the Salal scientist had.

[00:33:47] Danvers makes Peter work on Christmas Eve. And it really says you.

[00:33:52] He really hate you. But like it's playful, but he means it a little bit.

[00:33:58] Yeah. You know, it's, I think here's the thing that's really heartbreaking about Peter is he's going to look back after his marriage fails and be like,

[00:34:11] I could always get another job, but I had a family. And that's really heartbreaking because he's making it a very, and I think a lot of people make this mistake, right?

[00:34:20] They go work. They go on providing for my family. I have to dedicate myself to work and they don't set appropriate boundaries and then they lose their family because they're too withdrawn.

[00:34:30] And they realize that, oops, bad decision. Right. No one ever woke up on their death bed wondering how much more money they could have made.

[00:34:39] I think to this accentuates what I was saying before, this is going to be, you know, maybe Peter will work bigger cases, but this is going to be one of the most interesting cases that he will ever have worked.

[00:34:55] And to sacrifice his family. I don't know if you feel this way about parenthood, but for me, being a parent is probably the best thing I will have ever done in my life. Yeah, shepherding another life forward in the world and teaching and supporting and loving and having the two way connection.

[00:35:15] There's what there's a lot of things that I've got to do in my day to day life, but none of it would ever, would I ever want to sacrifice the relationship that I have with our, with our daughter.

[00:35:27] Yeah, I mean, I'm proud of what I do at work, but I, you know, most so much of my joy comes from just getting home the evening and playing monster dad with my daughter right just just these moments of joy, you know, making her giggle and my son will get there but he doesn't have

[00:35:47] much of a personality yet because he's one, he'll get there, he'll get there. But yeah, it's, he's really wasting his kids childhood and that sucks.

[00:35:58] So the German national had no records except for his criminal record, which is the same as Oliver Tagach. Right. So John, ask me the question.

[00:36:14] I don't know the answer. I'm not Danvers. Who had his records scrubbed?

[00:36:21] Oh, who has the juice to be able to scrub records to the level of... It's got the dirty numbers. Do you know what I'm saying?

[00:36:32] I don't know if I do that one. You didn't know the corn song from TikTok? No, that one. There was some kid who said he really liked corn because it's got the juice

[00:36:42] and somebody made a song about it like it's got the juice. It's all about corn. Okay. Okay. Anyway, he said it got the juice. It's fine. It's fine. Hopefully someone got a laugh out of that on their drive to work. Somebody did.

[00:36:56] But yeah, so who has the muscle, who has the reach, who has the know-how to scrub not only heist's records, but Tagach's records and who else? Who else have they have they done this on?

[00:37:10] I mean, maybe it's connected to the mining stuff. Like they have connected to somewhere. It's connected to...

[00:37:18] What did Lorraine from Fargo say? Like, "Call me the big R and Jiddy it and get me something from my campaign donations." Maybe there's somebody like that. I could see the mining rig lady from this episode.

[00:37:33] No, no, no, no. I'm sorry. This is the Solal Research Station. This is... I've got to go to the...

[00:37:42] No, I'm saying if she's involved with these from earners or whatnot. Uh-uh. That was Solal? This is Solal. Because remember, heist is working for Solal. Tagach is working for Solal. So this is NC Global Strategies is the holding company, which is funded by Tuttle United, which is part of the Tuttle Ministries from Season One.

[00:38:06] So this is this international pedophilia criminal weirdo ring that is involved in nefarious shit, and they're the ones that are the deep pockets behind Solal.

[00:38:21] So the Tutels, they have the resources to call up as Lorraine would say, "The Orange Man" and get the records of the Macy, I think.

[00:38:32] There are... There are Season One stands out there who bristle at the idea that the Tutels were no bigger than a regional concern. And then there are other folks who are like, "But look, if you look at...

[00:38:50] If you go back to Season One and I won't spoil anything directly, but indirectly, even saying the name Tuttle is, even saying the name Tuttle in the other episode is a bit of a Season One spoiler."

[00:39:02] It's no big deal because it's about nefarious conspiracies, right? The very noir story, there's like, weird or bigger concerns moving and shaping the world, right?

[00:39:15] So if you think that there is a bigger conspiracy out there, that if we look at the Tutels and how big they were down there, what's to say that they didn't grow beyond their region? What's to say that they didn't get connected?

[00:39:34] Big money gets connected around in the world in places that we don't know. I don't want to say on two tinfoil, but money looks for other money and they make connections.

[00:39:46] So I totally think that this is something deeper with the Saul, whoever is behind Saul.

[00:39:57] All right, all right, let's put a pin in it. Okay, my head's getting a little hot. The tinfoil is keeping all the cerebral heat in. Fair enough, fair enough.

[00:40:08] Danvers and Navarro talk by phone about the video. So there are no caves nearby and Annie's body was moved. And we can talk about fossils because they say, "Oh, isn't there something weird, fossily bony in that?"

[00:40:27] So we'll talk about it when she goes back when we get, I guess, to Bryce. There's also the thing later that comes up with the power shutting off, but we could save that for then, too.

[00:40:38] Right. Was that in another? Yeah, that's when she's drunk. She calls around Christmas Eve. The power's turning off. Yeah, it's not great. It's not a great look.

[00:40:47] I love how everyone gets her right away. Everyone is like, "Are you drunk?" They're so not used to interacting with her that way. They can tell something. So totally off. And so they're like, "Wait a minute, what's wrong with you?" Yeah.

[00:41:02] Yeah. All right, in vain, Hank waits at the airport. I've seen this episode of 90 Day Fiance, too.

[00:41:10] Every week I make that joke, but every week it gets more true, so I have to keep making it. Right. I love the psyche out with the stewardess.

[00:41:18] He thinks like, "Oh, wow. This is her? No, it's the stewardess just closing up the back door." So talk about deeply embarrassing for a man with such a puffed up sense of pride and ego.

[00:41:36] Yeah. Every season of 90 Day Fiance, I talk about with my wife the bingo card of things that people say in a particular season, and one of them is, "Did you send them money?"

[00:41:53] Nobody always asks that. Yes. Every time, "Did you send them money?" Peter asks it. "What are her intentions?" Yeah.

[00:42:03] Oh, man. In the way that John Hox is playing this character, you can just feel his stomach drop inside knowing that he's just been made a complete buffoon of.

[00:42:19] And he's been swanning around all this time and sending all these text messages and, oh my gosh, just the internal embarrassment.

[00:42:28] I'd move across the world from embarrassment for that. Yeah. Yeah, it's rough. He definitely got...

[00:42:37] Ever watched "30 Rock," where Tracy Morgan says, "What's the past tense of scammed? Is it scrunped?" I think he just got scrunped.

[00:42:46] I don't know if I saw that one, but that's right. That sounds like a very, I think, something he would say.

[00:42:51] It's a Tracy Morgan thing, yeah. So I think Hank got scrunped. He got scrunped.

[00:42:56] Danvers and Navarro drive and talk. We learn about Danvers past and the death of her mother. They go to Bryce's house on Christmas Eve to get help with the ice cave and fossils and learn about the heist connection.

[00:43:12] What did Danvers expect out of this interaction? Again, the humor. You should maybe stand in front of me. She's like, "What?" And then when Navarro figures it out, she's like, "You did what? So good." It's just a great comedy duo style minute. It was priceless. And the wife's reaction was priceless as well.

[00:43:37] He's got to be fucking kidding me. Are you serious? Christmas Eve? She just can't let it go. She just can't let it go.

[00:43:45] And in fairness, they are dealing with a murder. There is a suspect at large. It's a serious situation. However, she is bothering everyone else and deputizing everyone else will go home and get drunk.

[00:43:58] I was shocked that Pete was not pissed at her when he goes, "Was she drunk?" and she goes out of her mind. Pete laughs about it. And I was like, "Wow, that was an interesting reaction. I would be mad that I had to leave my family because my boss got drunk."

[00:44:18] Yeah, seriously. Okay. Monodites. This is the family of whale species that umbrella over narwhals and beluga whales. I forgot the name beluga whale for a second.

[00:44:41] And so this is a species that's common in this area. There is recently a new species that's actually called monodites. Specifically, where is it here? Bohaska kaya monodites, which is recently discovered, but it was actually somewhere else that's actually on the east coast, I believe.

[00:45:09] But anyway, so this is a real thing. So this spine and this head, I took a picture and put it in the detectives journal and we'll have that in for episode four stuff.

[00:45:22] So clearly, are signaling something that has to do with this thing. And I think it was a do 71 who was on our discord and posted something about the star shaped wound marks on any K and he looked up a, where is it?

[00:45:44] He looked up something that was an interesting theory. Here is another new fossil fossil of a most most sour sore. Oh, God, I can't pronounce this with his or screwdriver Keith found in Morocco.

[00:45:58] So again, star shaped puncture wounds. This thing has like ridges all the way around it so it makes a star shaped thing. So, are we dealing with the dinosaur here? Yeah, we, this is, this is a really weird turn for this whole story.

[00:46:13] What the hell is fossils have to do with this murder of the scientists?

[00:46:21] Well, if there is a dinosaur in the world, I'm glad it's very far away from where I live. And across many land masses.

[00:46:29] So the Brooks range is a range of mountains that sort of goes west to east or east to west, depending on your orientation, across the top end of Alaska and sort of separates the north slope from the southern part.

[00:46:46] And from where I can guess Enos is relative to the real map of Alaska, the Brooks range is right behind Enos. So you just go inland a little ways and then you're at the far western end of the Brooks range, as I understand it.

[00:47:05] And I'll put a map in the detective's journal as well with this for this episode. So.

[00:47:11] Well, we know Enos is at the end of the world. Yes, it is. At least at the end of the world.

[00:47:17] Love this when he stands up and bangs his head on the lamp. Again, comedy.

[00:47:22] Yeah. Yeah, it was a spooky scene, honestly, to have him consider it and interesting that they have to wait to go into those caves, right?

[00:47:33] And then I'll put another timeline on, since we've we had the timeline of the body's melting. Now we have the timeline of when can we get an expert because it's Christmas.

[00:47:43] I think it was really smart to put this storyline during Christmas, because one, you have the family drama, and two, you have this lack of resources.

[00:47:54] You're depriving someone of resources for a reason, which is always a really hard one.

[00:48:00] Birdline to tote. And it ramps it up when you it's like we've got to chase this suspect

[00:48:09] down it's Christmas Eve. We've got to keep the case moving forward. Right? Yeah, it works

[00:48:13] really well. It's that's it creates a lot of dramatic tension for sure. Yeah. At the lighthouse,

[00:48:19] Jules sees an orange roll out from under her bed and then sees a vision of her mother under the bed. She freaks out. I know we have feedback on oranges. Yes.

[00:48:30] I want to save it for them. But fine. But the the whole thing of you see an orange, somebody's going to die. Right? So and it ties in. I when we get to the feedback, we'll talk about it. But it's not displaced in the story, given the importance of oranges. So yeah.

[00:48:47] And boy, did she die. So I guess I guess the orange thing worked out. It was a pretty good jump scare, honestly. I'm not a fan of jump scares. Mm hmm. Like, I think they're kind of lazy, but they did pretty well with it.

[00:48:59] And you're a seasoned veteran of the jump scare. So if it if it worked on you, that's saying something.

[00:49:05] I mean, I didn't jump, but but I was like, Oh, that was spooky. You're not complaining. So that no, yeah, it was a good good work. Hank swings by the station from the airport to have a quick drink as you do at the office. You know, right, of course. You want me to bring this baby over? Isn't that what he says? Yeah, that's right. She's she's she's got some life left in her.

[00:49:28] Yeah. Oh boy. He and Peter have an awkward conversation about Alina not showing up. And this is where I said, you know, he does the 90 day fancy bingo card of money.

[00:49:38] I think the phones are down. It's that was the way he so we've I don't think we've ever seen this guy smile before. Right. And this scene, he's so outwardly jubilant, well being dead eyed.

[00:49:57] That it's so spooky, honestly, he's this guy's unhinged. Yeah. And I think I'm well, I'm trying to think of why they put this plotline in, right? Why they even put in this Russian bride plotline.

[00:50:11] Interesting. Yeah. Good question. Yeah. See, question. And I think it's two reasons. One is to give us the clue about the money. He's got some money.

[00:50:22] But the second is get, you know, you talk about ramping up pressure, get Hank into a situation into a mental state where he's going to do something dangerous and stupid.

[00:50:31] Good call. That's a good call. Yeah. He's going to be he's going to be triggered in his own way and react. And that's going to affect whatever else is going on.

[00:50:40] Look, look at all our main characters right now. He's got his thing. Peter is having marital problems falling apart.

[00:50:49] Danvers is drunk off her ass because her daughter hates her, right? Her daughter leaves and then her boss, her and her boss, love her, have a huge fight, right?

[00:50:58] And Navarro just lost her sister. Yeah. And then got into a career ending brawl with a former, you know, somebody that she had arrested.

[00:51:08] Yeah. Well, I doubt he's going to report it because then he. Well, we'll talk about it when we get down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.

[00:51:17] Everybody's a man of use of power though. Yeah. But yeah, the point is, I think everyone is being intentionally ratcheted up in their stress level.

[00:51:26] Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And that's what I was saying before about that running down the hill kind of thing. It's all coming to head and we're just going to have this, you know, avalanche of circumstances and people doing stuff.

[00:51:40] Yeah. Oh, I wanted to, I remember something I wanted to say back with Bryce and the caves and the Brook Range, Brook Range stuff.

[00:51:48] There is a scene in the opening credits of an equipment room sort of bathed in red light.

[00:51:57] And one of the things that they are doing at the end of every episode at, so, you know, you have the opening credits.

[00:52:08] And then the final shot of the opening credits, where it basically says, you know, executive producer written about whatever is a Lopez, that shot is different every time.

[00:52:18] One of the times it was the cafeteria at Salal, one of the times it was Kovac's ice chianti.

[00:52:26] There is one of the times where it's this red, this, this equipment room where there's like parkas and ice axes and all kinds of.

[00:52:37] And it's sort of in a, it's lit by like a red light, like a light that you would have in a dark room or in a place where you're about to transition light right so that your eyes are, you know, used to a lower wavelength.

[00:52:51] So, I think that's going to come into play in the Brooks Range when they get to the Brooks Range stuff. So anyway, sorry.

[00:53:00] Carrying, no, no, no, I think it's a good thought and good eye that you're catching those differences between the title screens. I did not notice at all.

[00:53:06] I have, I have to, when I started noticing that I tried to take some pictures of it, but I have to, I can only take pictures on certain screens at certain times of the day, because otherwise it get reflection, my own reflection in the screen. So I got a, you know, they have these screeners locked down and I, so I wanted to watch it on my TV, but there's no, you know, a screen or app for my TV.

[00:53:29] I thought there was. And I was just going through my LG TV. I didn't go on any fire stick or anything. Oh, okay. I see what that might be the issue.

[00:53:36] Yeah, because I think they have it for like Roku and Apple TV and stuff.

[00:53:39] Okay. Okay. Maybe I'm going to set up my fire TV again. But anyway, my point is I tried to share screen, my laptop to my TV and it was like, no, you're not doing that.

[00:53:50] And I was like, wow, even, even local sharing, I can't, I can't share it on my screen just so I can watch it on a different screen.

[00:53:59] I'd have to get an HDMI. Yeah, to output. Yeah.

[00:54:02] Yeah. Crazy.

[00:54:06] Crazy, crazy, crazy. All right, let's move on to Navarro heading out to Rose, Rose's house for some Christmas cheer.

[00:54:13] We learned that Rose was a university professor. Disenchanted, one I'd say.

[00:54:18] Yeah, very much so. You are familiar with John Lithgow.

[00:54:23] Yes, the actor. She was channeling John Lithgow in this scene.

[00:54:27] She totally, I was having a hard time going, wait, isn't that John Lithgow?

[00:54:33] So I don't know what was up with that.

[00:54:35] That's funny. That's funny. Yeah, she was great in the scene.

[00:54:39] But it almost felt like a different character.

[00:54:41] The ones that we had before. Exactly.

[00:54:43] And when she's outside, maybe because she hadn't seen a dead person in long enough.

[00:54:48] I don't know. Quiet, except for all the day, she says.

[00:54:51] Yeah, great, great line there. Yeah.

[00:54:54] Interesting that we just have this little touch scene with her and we have yet.

[00:55:00] You know, she hasn't been...

[00:55:03] She's had one major function in this plot,

[00:55:08] but we haven't had a lot yet else with her other than being a kind of...

[00:55:14] What's the way I want to say this, like docent for us, the audience,

[00:55:18] to explain the rules of the dead kind of stuff.

[00:55:21] Other than that, she hasn't had much consequence of much consequence in the story.

[00:55:25] So we'll be interesting to see if she plays more of the role in the next two episodes.

[00:55:31] Yeah. All right.

[00:55:35] As far as what she says to, I wonder what she was a professor of.

[00:55:41] Very serious thing is that she's very dismissive about.

[00:55:44] But I feel like that's going to come into play at some point.

[00:55:47] OK, OK. Because otherwise it's a weird backstory to just throw in there.

[00:55:51] And actually, if we're talking about the quality of the dialogue,

[00:55:54] this was the one scene I thought suffered a little bit because it felt like Navarro going,

[00:55:59] "So tell me your backstory character."

[00:56:03] We've never talked about your backstory.

[00:56:06] Right. What is it?

[00:56:08] Good point. Yeah.

[00:56:09] Show me your character sheet, Rose.

[00:56:12] Anyway, Danvers gets a call from Mikitrick.

[00:56:16] Is that how I say it?

[00:56:17] Mikitrick.

[00:56:17] Mikitrick. Sorry.

[00:56:19] Leah is being held by mind security for defacing the building.

[00:56:24] Danvers convinces Mikitrick to not press charges.

[00:56:29] So one problem I did have with this scene sort of on a realism scale was

[00:56:37] Leah is a minor, and the security is a private guard.

[00:56:43] You cannot do that with the chief of police and the stepmother is standing right there.

[00:56:51] You cannot hold the child.

[00:56:53] You have no legal right to hold that child in that truck, a minor.

[00:56:57] Like that is like a big no, let alone the regardless of chief of police status stuff.

[00:57:03] And that, you know, when Mikitrick does her little like, oh, you know, let her out,

[00:57:07] I was like, dang, you know, yeah, you know, there's an arguable like shopkeepers

[00:57:12] privilege kind of thing until Danvers gets there.

[00:57:16] But as soon as she gets there, she should be released to the police.

[00:57:19] Then again, her daughter being involved,

[00:57:22] she probably should not have gone there personally, but instead said,

[00:57:25] another officer, exactly.

[00:57:26] Right. Like there's a conflict of interest there.

[00:57:28] You're second of command who is Hank prior.

[00:57:33] Not great. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:37] And something that I really that really struck me was how much better fitted the

[00:57:43] security was than Danvers.

[00:57:46] Like they seemed like a more legitimate force than the police in this town.

[00:57:51] And I think that was intentional.

[00:57:53] I think that Isalopez here is trying to demonstrate like money buys private security.

[00:57:58] Money buys big guys in Suburbans.

[00:58:02] And we're a town has to go through a local police force.

[00:58:07] You know, we've got public is government, right?

[00:58:09] We have to have transparency.

[00:58:10] We have to have an understanding of where money is being spent to prevent

[00:58:15] corruption and that kind of stuff.

[00:58:17] So yeah, for sure.

[00:58:18] And so it seemed like Fargo, yeah.

[00:58:22] And there there's a great sort of juxtaposition here of low level police

[00:58:29] corruption, right?

[00:58:30] It's it's you know, her asking for a favor for her daughter, right?

[00:58:34] Yeah.

[00:58:35] But also kind of an abuse of power of the, you know, the victim here, you know,

[00:58:42] the mind.

[00:58:45] And I think that what I'm trying to say here is both sides are a little bit wrong.

[00:58:51] Sure. Right.

[00:58:51] Like she should face consequences.

[00:58:53] But you know, it'd be nice for her to not have a criminal record just to start

[00:58:56] off life with.

[00:58:57] Right.

[00:58:59] And you know, the she did the right thing by just calling Danvers directly, but

[00:59:05] or maybe she didn't.

[00:59:05] Maybe Denver's got a call from emergency services.

[00:59:08] Do we know it was it was McKittrick.

[00:59:10] It definitely was OK.

[00:59:11] Yeah, it was definitely her.

[00:59:12] Yeah.

[00:59:12] But yeah, it's not great.

[00:59:15] And now Danvers owes McKittrick a favor.

[00:59:17] Kind of.

[00:59:18] Yeah.

[00:59:18] I love the line that McKittrick says you talking about what's unacceptable.

[00:59:25] Like you've stooped my husband and you want to talk about what's unacceptable

[00:59:29] behavior on the part of your stepdaughter.

[00:59:32] That's rich.

[00:59:33] Yeah.

[00:59:34] Did you notice that the other cars that were parked in the lot there were

[00:59:38] Teslas?

[00:59:39] Oh, my God.

[00:59:41] Yeah, that's actually really impractical for totally right.

[00:59:46] Because there's whole issues with batteries in the cold.

[00:59:50] Yeah.

[00:59:51] And then like the bunch of places that got a lot of cold weather, not too long ago

[00:59:57] in cars, you know, wet and then freezing and then cars that sometimes form, you

[01:00:02] know, an ice shell and then the Tesla little door handles can't pop out of the

[01:00:07] door because yeah, all ice over.

[01:00:09] So yeah, fun, super fun.

[01:00:13] One other note I just had here, you can't force the police to press charges.

[01:00:18] I think everyone knows that.

[01:00:20] But she's like, Well, you don't get to decide if charges are present.

[01:00:23] It's like, actually law enforcement does.

[01:00:26] I guess law enforcement doesn't directly.

[01:00:28] It's really the DA, but it's really the prosecutor's office.

[01:00:31] But it's just funny how she's like, no, I'm I'm pressing charges.

[01:00:34] It's like you as the victim don't press charges.

[01:00:37] Right.

[01:00:38] Prosecutor's press charges.

[01:00:39] Primarily.

[01:00:40] Yeah.

[01:00:40] Right.

[01:00:41] Unless you wanted to pursue it civilly, right?

[01:00:44] Right.

[01:00:45] And realistically, probably Leah would end up in like a first time offenders

[01:00:50] program and probably get like probation or something like that.

[01:00:52] So exactly.

[01:00:53] Hopefully we'll say we'll say I guess we won't say.

[01:00:55] Anyway, I think we should take a break, David, because we've got a nice little

[01:01:00] transition here with the Billie Eilish song.

[01:01:02] We've got probably about half the episode left.

[01:01:04] And I think it's time we think of breather.

[01:01:06] And we're back.

[01:01:18] So back to the scene by scene recap.

[01:01:20] The next few scenes are birds together by the song.

[01:01:23] Everybody dies by Billie Eilish.

[01:01:25] I'm going to try to combine a few scenes here just because there's a few

[01:01:29] character beats that we don't necessarily need to go through in detail.

[01:01:33] But the first couple scenes are actually pretty meaningful.

[01:01:35] So let's do those ones in detail after leaving roses.

[01:01:38] Evangeline calls Jules to check in, but we see Jules is not in her room.

[01:01:42] She's out at the shipwreck and we watch her remove all of her clothing

[01:01:47] and walk out onto the ice.

[01:01:48] Pretty heavy stuff here.

[01:01:51] I want to make a quick mention about the Billie Eilish song, which is everybody

[01:01:58] dies and the lyrics are pretty somber and the conversation

[01:02:07] around the song and the verses, the different verses that at least in the

[01:02:15] first verse, this idea that Eilish is commenting on sort of mass dishonesty

[01:02:23] and how we teach each other to lie to each other, I think is really interesting.

[01:02:30] We teach, we tell each other lies sometimes we try to make it feel

[01:02:34] like we might be right.

[01:02:35] We might not be alone.

[01:02:37] It's almost like this song was commissioned, like they actually

[01:02:42] commissioned Billie Eilish to write a song about this.

[01:02:45] Season that is like so on point for so much because Jules has been lying all

[01:02:51] the time about, you know, whether she's actually going to be able to deal with

[01:02:53] this Danvers is lying to everybody.

[01:02:56] You know, Navarro is lying by the act of withholding, right?

[01:03:03] And not, you know, sharing her herself with people.

[01:03:06] It's just a really poignant song.

[01:03:08] And there's a whole, if you read, if you do some Google searches or whatever,

[01:03:12] maybe I'll post this on the detective's journal as well.

[01:03:16] There's a nice analysis that I found on our website of what the song means.

[01:03:20] It's got a lot of connectivity to this, to this episode and to the season overall.

[01:03:26] Cool.

[01:03:27] Well, I appreciate the deep dive on the lyrics.

[01:03:29] Yeah.

[01:03:30] So as far as this Jules scene, can I first praise because I, again,

[01:03:36] I'm bringing up old grievances of, you know, people said we didn't like cursing

[01:03:41] in science fiction.

[01:03:43] And I would say this is slightly science fiction, although it's leaning

[01:03:48] more into the mystery, of course.

[01:03:49] There was another thing about like sex scenes, right?

[01:03:53] I think, I think somebody called me a prude when it comes to fantasy and sci-fi,

[01:03:57] which fair if you want to call me what you want.

[01:04:00] But my point is I actually thought this was a very tasteful nude scene,

[01:04:05] which was, you know, it's making her vulnerable and it's mirroring

[01:04:10] the deaths of Salal.

[01:04:12] And so it actually meant something.

[01:04:14] There was a reason for her to be naked here.

[01:04:16] And I just wanted to praise Isalope has for doing it right.

[01:04:20] And I think this idea that she's letting go of her earthly possessions,

[01:04:29] she, did you notice that she folded and stacked her clothing?

[01:04:33] Oh, yeah, she did.

[01:04:35] I didn't connect it till you said that.

[01:04:38] So again, I think it goes back to some kind of ritualist, ritualism,

[01:04:42] if I can say it that way, that if, and I don't know what the traditions are

[01:04:49] for people who live in and around the Arctic, I'm aware of that there is

[01:04:55] something to be involved in like, well, when it's time to die,

[01:04:58] you just walk out on the ice and you let yourself be taken back by nature.

[01:05:02] I know in, in some tropical regions in Africa, that is also

[01:05:08] a thing, you know, like you just get to a certain age and you just walk out

[01:05:11] and you let the hyenas take you, right?

[01:05:13] And you, you, you save yourself.

[01:05:16] You know, it's, you get to an end point of your life where quality of life

[01:05:22] is, is over and you make a decision for yourself, right?

[01:05:25] I mean, I don't think Jules was at peace here.

[01:05:28] No, Jules was, I don't think Jules wanted to die.

[01:05:31] I think she was exhausted and tired and she just couldn't handle it.

[01:05:38] Any more. So it's very sad.

[01:05:41] It is. And it's a, it's a tough scene.

[01:05:43] So I hope, you know, I hope people who are watching the show and listening

[01:05:48] to this podcast, you know, make sure you take care of yourself too.

[01:05:51] If this is something that is affecting definitely, definitely.

[01:05:55] And it's really heartbreaking how she calls Navarro and says, you know,

[01:06:00] I love you. Yeah, gives her one last.

[01:06:02] It's heartbreaking. Yeah.

[01:06:05] I mean, it was very effective. It was a very effective scene.

[01:06:08] And Navarro even had said in a previous conversation, you know,

[01:06:12] don't you just want to sometimes just let go of everything and just walk away.

[01:06:15] And Jules literally does that in this, in the scene.

[01:06:18] Yeah. So I want to talk really quickly about some semiotics.

[01:06:23] Semiotic away. Yes, it's a big, fancy word, which basically is the study

[01:06:31] of signs and symbols and meanings thereof.

[01:06:35] Beyond just like, oh, if somebody walks into a room with a white

[01:06:39] code in the stethoscope, right, that that's interpreted, meaning

[01:06:43] that person is a medical professional of some kind.

[01:06:45] Okay. So like surface level stuff, we do that all the time.

[01:06:48] A badge, a uniform, you know, a hard hat, you know, with a tool belt

[01:06:54] and a ladder, right?

[01:06:56] We can interpret all of these kinds of things.

[01:06:57] And then there's like taking it to another level.

[01:07:00] And I am no by no means a subject matter expert in this.

[01:07:05] But it is a place where this is a study of a course of study that you

[01:07:09] could do at university and things like that is semiotics.

[01:07:13] And I caught something in the last episode that I've been kind of excited

[01:07:19] to mention or point out a couple of details.

[01:07:22] One of the environmental scenes that we see of Enos just around,

[01:07:27] you know, in all these different shots is of a like a lighthouse beacon,

[01:07:32] but it was like at an industrial facility or something like that.

[01:07:35] But basically to, you know, as a lighthouse function, right,

[01:07:39] as rotating light to to warn people of things or to let people know where

[01:07:44] something is.

[01:07:45] And then we get a scene of Navarro out on the ice around the time

[01:07:50] that she has her vision when she slips on the ice.

[01:07:53] And she, the camera is way back and she's searching her light into the dark

[01:07:59] and the ice like a lighthouse in a way.

[01:08:02] And then we go to a scene with jewels at a shipwreck.

[01:08:08] And I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, what's going on here?

[01:08:14] And I know before there was some talk about, oh, is the lighthouse a sinister

[01:08:19] thing? Is this some, you know, are the tunnels involved in secreting people away

[01:08:22] using the lighthouse stuff?

[01:08:23] Now, I think the lighthouse was just a reasonable name for a community health

[01:08:28] center.

[01:08:29] But this idea of lighthouses has been introduced and we've got these strong

[01:08:34] visual scenes that are really closely connected in time of these two lighthouses

[01:08:42] and then who's at the shipwreck, jewels is at the shipwreck.

[01:08:45] And Navarro is her beacon.

[01:08:49] She's trying to bring her in.

[01:08:51] She's trying to give her the pathway in the dark.

[01:08:55] Like, I'm here, this is safe.

[01:08:56] It's safe to come here.

[01:08:58] You know, or, you know, lighthouse is also worn of danger, right?

[01:09:02] You know, they're, they're saying, hey, this is where the coastline is.

[01:09:05] You know, make sure you adjust your course accordingly.

[01:09:07] And then it's this whole idea of light versus dark, which is very true detective,

[01:09:12] right? The, you know, this, this idea that there are dark forces and it's the

[01:09:19] light that, you know, we're trying to use the light to keep the dark forces at bay.

[01:09:23] So all of that is at play here.

[01:09:25] And I just, again, really appreciate the deeper level construction that Lopez

[01:09:31] is doing here visually and in the storytelling.

[01:09:33] And I don't know if there's more of those.

[01:09:36] That's just one that has really jumped out at me.

[01:09:38] But yeah, I just thought it was super cool.

[01:09:42] The vision of this ship right after these two other things, it really worked on me.

[01:09:47] So I'm loving all the symbolism that you're pointing out here.

[01:09:50] It's yeah. Yeah.

[01:09:51] It's it's it makes it even more heartbreaking.

[01:09:55] Yeah, exactly.

[01:09:56] Yeah. So, so semiotics, you can at me if you have issues with semiotics.

[01:10:00] Cool.

[01:10:02] We cut to Leah packing up her things and leaving to stay at priors.

[01:10:06] She's then picked up by Kayla, Liz throws the uncooked turkey into the trash

[01:10:12] and gets drunk while watching the Annie Kay video again.

[01:10:17] It's she's like, I'm not cooking this fucking turkey if you're not here.

[01:10:22] That's expensive to get that turkey up to Alaska way up there to Ennis.

[01:10:27] That is an expensive turkey.

[01:10:28] That's like three to four times the price we would pay down here in the lower 48.

[01:10:32] Yeah. Well, my thought was,

[01:10:36] I don't know exactly what time it is because of the long night stuff.

[01:10:40] But it does seem like it's the evening and you needed to start that turkey at like

[01:10:45] noon.

[01:10:46] Well, it was the last time we criticized you on your

[01:10:53] turkey.

[01:10:54] Don't make it guys, you need to go look it up when you have to make a turkey.

[01:10:58] They have all these calculations you can do and multiply the pounds by the

[01:11:02] number of hours you have to cook it.

[01:11:04] And it's she she does not know how to cook a turkey.

[01:11:08] From also, yeah, I'm going to guarantee this.

[01:11:11] She didn't defrost it.

[01:11:13] No, it was out before.

[01:11:15] Remember, no, I don't think it's a fridge.

[01:11:17] All right, Navarro, it was, I'm sorry.

[01:11:19] Danvers, I don't think knows how to cook a turkey.

[01:11:21] Based on the way she goes, I'm going to cook for Christmas this year.

[01:11:24] Well, like Leah says, I'm not going to make you pretend anymore.

[01:11:27] That's what she does.

[01:11:30] That was a good fight hard enough.

[01:11:32] Honestly, I think that Danvers does not fight hard enough.

[01:11:35] Well, then she turns on her heel and says, fine, get out.

[01:11:38] Like, yeah, that's the point is just withholding.

[01:11:41] She won't be like, look, I just went to bat for you.

[01:11:43] I just want to have a nice person together.

[01:11:45] It's it's I'm sorry for how I've been acting.

[01:11:48] You know, it's I don't think Danvers said she's sorry in her entire life.

[01:11:52] She didn't even say sorry to Navarro after she rented about no afterlife.

[01:11:58] Right.

[01:12:00] and my sister is dead. She wasn't like, "Oh, sorry. I said all that." She was just like, "Oh, that's bad." And then I can't help because we get that little scene of Hank and Peter when she calls over there. Sorry, that wasn't the scene, that's later. That's where, well, no, maybe it is. Well, anyway, the point is,

[01:12:29] is that Danvers has just run rough shot over this entire family over Hank, like taking his job,

[01:12:37] right, you know, if she was promoted over him, you know, working Peter nonstop, ruining Kayla's,

[01:12:45] you know, you know, marriage. And that sounds like she's just had a horrible impact on just as one family.

[01:12:52] Yeah. Yeah. I guess Kayla doesn't have anything else to do that night. Just like,

[01:12:59] just like Hank Breyer, "I got nowhere to be. I can wait." Boy, oh boy. Oh boy. All right,

[01:13:08] back at home, Navarro finds a present from Kavic at her door. SpongeBob is the yellow king.

[01:13:14] We can move on. Agreed. Agreed. As the song ends, Danvers hits, and by the way, the song,

[01:13:21] the Billy Eilish song that we mentioned 10 minutes ago, as the song ends, Danvers hits on a connection

[01:13:26] between the Molina and Annie Kay videos. Someone or something cuts the power in both. She calls

[01:13:33] Navarro and then Peter to have the follow up with Tagak, who is now a suspect. I guess

[01:13:40] he was, he was the equipment manager, right? So he would have had the gear. You ever watched

[01:13:45] Portlandia? This is my second like sitcom reference in the night. Yes, partly India

[01:13:51] was a favorite in the day. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, you're from that coast, so. Yes. I graduated

[01:13:56] high school in Portland, in fact. So, yeah. So, I'm sure it was meaningful to you. Anyway,

[01:14:03] they had that whole bit about like, you got to get the gear. We got to get the gear. Yes.

[01:14:06] By the time they get all the gear, it's nighttime. But yeah, this guy had the gear. He did. And

[01:14:12] so we have Heis who mapped the caves and Tagak, who set up the ability for them to go do stuff

[01:14:19] in the caves. That's where I'm going right now with these theories. Okay. I like it. Yeah.

[01:14:25] I like it. But that's on the rational side of thing, on the spooky dookie side of things,

[01:14:33] the chupalupa side of things. In both, in episode one, we had multiple occasions when

[01:14:40] weird stuff happens, there was some sort of electrical disturbance. And like the wolf

[01:14:47] that Rose was gutting sort of just jolts a little bit when she sees Travis for the first

[01:14:52] time, a couple of times on the radio when, you know, something happens. So whatever this

[01:14:58] phenomena is, it has the ability to affect the electrical, you know, the E.M. fields,

[01:15:06] you know, if you will. So. Yeah. All right. All right. I buy it. At priors, Leah learns

[01:15:15] to roll out dough with Kayla and her mother. Peter collects Navarro and they drive out

[01:15:21] to the hunting camp, which seems abandoned. Tekak is not there, but he left a couple

[01:15:26] of spirals. Spooky, spooky. So the song that's playing in this scene is "Into Dust" by

[01:15:35] Mazzy Starr. And it's just so good. The song is about a story of a woman who feels like

[01:15:43] she's decaying and fading away as if she's into dust. And just this idea that somehow

[01:15:53] our interactions with people just disappear and are so ephemeral. It's just such a good

[01:15:59] song. I really love it. Yeah. And then when they get to the hunting camp, they show us

[01:16:03] the scenes of all of the antlers and bones and stuff. That is very reminiscent of season

[01:16:10] one in certain scenes where there's just lots of stuff. So that that's a good, strong rhyme

[01:16:18] back with season one. And then when we see this spiral, whenever we see a spiral, listen

[01:16:27] to the visual effects, there's a weird "weird" kind of sound that plays and they play it

[01:16:37] here. There's this weird astral projection-y thing. So it's that auditory cue, something

[01:16:48] supernatural. Yeah. And when the men of the camp come and say, hey, you need a warrant,

[01:17:00] they seem spooked by the spiral too. She shows the spiral to them and they're like, oh.

[01:17:07] And the dog's bark when she does that. Yeah. Very, very, very people. What's going on here?

[01:17:12] Yeah. Yeah. I think you said, you know, season one, the spirals were kind of a red herring.

[01:17:17] Yeah. But in this season, they're definitely doing something with them. Not so much of

[01:17:21] a red herring. It was just a design that a production person threw up and it didn't

[01:17:27] have as big. We probably have seen two to three times the number of spirals in this season

[01:17:34] than we did in season one. We cut back over to Danvers who gets sick of looking at case

[01:17:38] files and decides to drive over to Daddy Ted's Hotel. We learn more about how Danvers ended

[01:17:44] up in Ennis. They argue and Liz leaves. Yeah. We Mr. Teeth Whitener over here. Watch

[01:17:54] Elph. Can I say? It's just pretty funny to watch a Brit try to make their teeth perfect.

[01:17:59] No. All right. All right. All right. You can add him. You can add me. So apparently the

[01:18:06] teeth whitening thing, the UV doesn't do the work. It's the chemicals that you put on the

[01:18:13] teeth. And then the UV expedites the process by exciting the molecules of the gel so that

[01:18:22] those can get into the enamel more quickly. So that's why when she kisses him, she's

[01:18:26] like, ooh, that's gross because he's got a bunch of weird teeth whitening stuff on his

[01:18:33] side. I'm cutting you off of deep dives. You've gone too far. I did one Google search.

[01:18:38] One Google search. You've gone too far. So. But the big part about the scene is just

[01:18:43] this whole, you know, people hate you. People hate working with you. And that's why I had

[01:18:48] to transfer you. Yeah. Like I had to get you far away from the Capitol because probably

[01:18:52] she was a toxic asset to his career. Yeah, probably. And as he says, she got worse after

[01:18:59] Jake and Holden. So. Yeah. You know, she needed someplace where she could just focus

[01:19:04] on work. Yeah, we still don't know exactly what happened with them, but assuming it's

[01:19:09] bad. Yeah, assuming it was like a drunk driver incident. Yeah, that seems to be what

[01:19:13] that includes to it. Yeah. And if they don't tell us exactly what happened, I wouldn't

[01:19:17] be completely disappointed in it's, you know, it's vague backstory, big sad backstory.

[01:19:25] We visit with Hank, who is also watching elf and regretting his life choices. Yeah, that's

[01:19:31] a recurring thing in this, isn't it? Well, just twice. Just it looks like just twice.

[01:19:36] You know, elf starts off. He walks from the North Pole to New York City. Was that what

[01:19:43] Jules was trying to do? Yeah. I don't know. I'm just, I'm just doing stupid conspiracy

[01:19:49] theories now. Okay. Because I was trying to find some, I was thinking to myself, like,

[01:19:53] Okay, twist and shout, twist and shout is a whole thing. Yeah, alpha thing. Yeah, I don't

[01:20:00] know. I mean, I know a lot of people watch it during the holidays, but yeah. And Hank

[01:20:04] priors like, I can't watch Zoe Deschanel fall in love with this elf right now. I can't

[01:20:10] in his teal room in his teal living room. Yeah, John Hawks is killing it as Hank, by the

[01:20:16] way, is acting is so good in this. So yeah, very believable, very believably an asshole.

[01:20:24] As prior to Navarro get back to her house, Navarro gets a call from the Coast Guard about

[01:20:29] Julia. Peter gets home late and things are not great with Kayla. Yeah. So just this fact

[01:20:39] that Navarro is like, yeah, everything's fine. Go home to your family. And then pizza family

[01:20:43] life is not great either. It's just, it's so rough. It's so rough all around. It was

[01:20:50] bad. And then it's just such a beautifully lit scene to as Peter walks in the door from

[01:20:57] the dark, right? He's in dark silhouette. He's in the dark and he comes into the warmth

[01:21:02] and the light of a Christmas tree all lit up and his home and, you know, all the smells

[01:21:07] that represent home for us. And then he says that shit about, you know, you know, about

[01:21:15] you didn't really, you know, I ruined your life and you didn't really want the baby.

[01:21:18] I was just like, no, don't say that, man. That's the word. Don't do that to your children.

[01:21:25] You know, yeah, that was really bad. Don't, don't bring the kid into the fight. So I was

[01:21:30] actually going to ask you about that line because I heard baby. And, but then I've listened

[01:21:38] to it back and I thought he was saying like, you didn't want it anyway. Like, or you didn't

[01:21:42] want any of it. Like, I thought he was maybe just saying like, you didn't want this life

[01:21:46] with like me as a cop. But I think you're right. It was baby. We just don't have subtitles.

[01:21:50] So and he says it fast. I really did try several times to understand what he was saying, but

[01:21:54] I couldn't get a lock on it. Yeah, no, I assumed it was Darwin is what they were talking

[01:22:00] about. So yeah, yeah. Very sad. Very sad. I wish he didn't and like he's been so sweet

[01:22:08] to everybody the whole season. Yeah. And now all of a sudden he's lashing out. And that's

[01:22:14] the first time we've seen him do that. Yeah, it's rough. Actually, we saw him kind of

[01:22:19] lash out at Kayla in the first episode when she's trying to, you know, feel him up a little

[01:22:24] bit. And he's like, no, I have to take the call. And so I think, think he's lashes out

[01:22:30] out of his wife. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's some darkness. Yep. Yep. And this is again, a

[01:22:36] true detective hallmark is that the price that the guardians pay. And that's what goes

[01:22:44] on a lot with Woody Harrelson's character in season one is, you know, he's trying to

[01:22:51] create, to preserve the bubble, the innocent bubble of his family. And so he has to dispel

[01:22:57] all this energy in other places, which then gets him in trouble with his, you know, family.

[01:23:02] Because he didn't help that it was secretly helping breaking to the Watergate. You keep

[01:23:07] it didn't help. You keep working that joke. It doesn't help that show either. It's just,

[01:23:12] you know, he Nixon kept calling and it wasn't good, wasn't good. In a rage, Navarro goes

[01:23:19] to the lighthouse and loses her shit. She then goes and picks a fight with the asshole from

[01:23:24] episode one. Yeah. I don't blame her for the lighthouse one. You know, it's not, it's not

[01:23:32] okay. I understand that it's not a detention facility. And we could have a long conversation

[01:23:38] about how mental health care has gone down in this country, in part because of lack of

[01:23:44] funding and in part because we've had some court rulings that rightfully so say you can't

[01:23:51] detain people against their will, but they didn't have an alternative, right? They didn't

[01:23:55] put it in place an alternative of, of what happens when somebody's in one of these voluntary

[01:24:00] facilities. And I think really they should have, first of all, known that she was gone.

[01:24:05] They didn't even know she was gone. And second was they should have called Navarro. They should

[01:24:10] have called Evangeline the minute that they knew she was gone. Yeah. At least she's got

[01:24:15] an hour. Go find her. Yeah. Maybe she could have gotten there in time. But I mean, I doubt

[01:24:20] it. But you know what I mean? Like they did not do their due diligence here. This guy

[01:24:23] clearly did not give a shit working desk. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's the

[01:24:31] mine has more security. Get those guys working in lighthouse. Right. When Navarro goes to

[01:24:43] pick the fight with those guys, there's something that struck me there too, which is when she's

[01:24:50] down on the ground and she's getting kicked at the end of the scene. There's a mention

[01:24:55] of the violence that was done to Annie Kay's body in the at the murder scene that she was

[01:25:02] also kicked after she had died. And it really, again, a another rhyming couplet there, just

[01:25:08] a lot of ugly trauma stuff. Yeah.

[01:25:14] Regardless. And then I wanted to think too about this regardless of whether that guy

[01:25:19] pressed charges or not. If it ever got to her trooper command that this happened, that's

[01:25:25] a career ending thing. Just from a conduct, unbecoming kind of as it should be, right?

[01:25:32] Like absolutely. It should be career ending that you went and beat somebody up for the

[01:25:36] sake of it. Just and she used a weapon. Like she picked up a hubcap and hit one of the

[01:25:40] guys with it, right? So yeah, it's it's probably fell any battery. Yeah, completely, completely.

[01:25:48] So and then color of authority too, because she rolled up in uniform with her lights on.

[01:25:54] Right. So last two little quick notes about this scene too. The song is This Wild Darkness

[01:26:02] by Moby. And there's great lyrics in there, which I won't go in, but the chorus is, oh,

[01:26:12] in this darkness, please light my way, light my way. And in all about night and I'll never

[01:26:17] be free, blah, blah, blah. And as the camera rises up from, you know, DeVaro getting the

[01:26:23] shit kicked out of her literally, there's a line of trucks in the back. Did you say literally?

[01:26:28] So she's pooping at this moment? So come on. All right. All right. All right. All right.

[01:26:33] And there's a line of trucks. So this is like some sort of junkyard. And beyond it is the

[01:26:38] dark of night. And it's this really weird thing where the trucks bisect the darkness.

[01:26:45] And so what's in the light and in the mundane and the rational is in the lower part of the

[01:26:51] screen. And then the camera rises up into the darkness as this, you know, really soulful

[01:26:59] song, this wild darkness plays. It's again, another masterful shot. Wow. Nice. I will

[01:27:07] put the this wild darkness, Moby lyrics in the, in the show notes as well, or not in the

[01:27:16] show like Moby to talk in the detective thing. He did all the music for holes, I think.

[01:27:20] Oh, yeah. We liked that one. As the song continues to play, we get an overhead shot of Danvers

[01:27:27] striving down the road in the darkness with her headlights lighting the way. She almost

[01:27:32] collides with the one night polar bear. So one night polar bear, do you have thoughts

[01:27:38] because I have a very strong theory about this? I don't have a thought on the polar bear exactly.

[01:27:44] I just was absolutely certain she was going to get into a terrible accident here. Sure.

[01:27:50] Yeah, you can feel that coming, right? Yeah. And then she didn't. She just, you know, got stuck

[01:27:55] in the snow for a second and apparently made it home. A couple of episodes ago we had, I

[01:28:02] picked up something from a redditor and I forget that person's handle right off the top of my head.

[01:28:06] But they had posted some information about polar bears being guardian spirits for Arctic

[01:28:14] communities. So I really am strong on the theme that this is a guardian spirit,

[01:28:21] not a malevolent force. This isn't a type three. And going back to the sort of semioticy stuff,

[01:28:30] there's some dream sequences later which we're about to get to, right, this polar bear,

[01:28:36] the stuff polar bear has one eye, there's a between a set me a picture of a polar bear statue

[01:28:42] that's in town that had snow covering one of the eyes in the dream sequence and a lot of the dream

[01:28:48] sequences and the one coming up. We see Holden having a hand over his eye or we only see one eye

[01:28:56] because of the shots. So I think this polar bear and Holden are connected in some way.

[01:29:03] Okay, we definitely did have the polar bear with with Holden prominent later.

[01:29:10] Yeah. Well, having a snooze, Kavik is woken up by the sounds of Navarro cleaning herself up.

[01:29:16] He attempts to comfort her, then pretends to propose as a ruse to reset her broken finger.

[01:29:23] That was smart because even I was like, oh, dude, not now. Yeah, serious.

[01:29:29] But I love that it was just a ruse. Yeah. Yeah. He's such a good person for her.

[01:29:36] He's such a... He knows exactly what she needs. Yeah. He doesn't give her what she wants,

[01:29:42] but what she needs. Oh, it sounds like somebody should write a song about that.

[01:29:45] I actually kind of stole that whole idea of from Dr. Who, where

[01:29:50] Dr. There's an episode where the doctor gets to talk to the TARDIS for a minute. Okay. She's like

[01:29:57] sentient for a minute, and she... Well, she is sentient in general, but she's

[01:30:01] incarnated in person for an episode. And he says, "Why don't you always take me where I want to go?"

[01:30:06] And she goes, "I take you where you need to be." Nice. Well, and that's, of course, the famous

[01:30:12] Rolling Stone song as well. You can't always get what you... Yeah, you can always get what you want.

[01:30:17] Okay. All right, fair enough. But that's the point, right? I think Kavik gives Navarro what she

[01:30:22] needs. You know, makes her open up about her mother. He heals her finger even though she doesn't

[01:30:27] want him to do it. Right. Doesn't actually do the sappy romantic thing that she thinks he's doing,

[01:30:34] but instead... Total distraction. Yeah, genius. Genius. Would not have thought to do that. And

[01:30:41] even when she yells at him afterwards, he gives her a second of space. He doesn't rush back in. He

[01:30:46] gives her a second to cool down, and then he goes in comfort for more. Well, cool down. She's

[01:30:51] going deeper into her trauma, but beyond the point of I missed at you, she's not going into the deep

[01:30:57] form. Yeah, like, what did I say, cool down? I mean... Yeah. Stop being angry at him. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

[01:31:02] I get it. Like, she's not going to punch me immediately. Right. Did you catch that the rock,

[01:31:08] that spiral rock is there? He put it on a bar or whatever. Yeah, that's a convex. Yep. Cool.

[01:31:13] Cool. It's Christmas Day, David, the eighth night of night, and the sun seems to be returning.

[01:31:22] Yeah, I'm not sure how... We were supposedly at 150 miles north of the Arctic Circle

[01:31:28] line, so I don't know how it works there, how many actual... I don't think that the show

[01:31:34] is told us how many days of night we're going to have, how long the night is. I think it's like

[01:31:39] three months, isn't it? But that's like when you're way up that time. That's when you're way up. Yeah,

[01:31:43] I don't know. I don't know. But I mean, I think it is. I think it is still months, but

[01:31:49] you do still get like these brief, like, the sun peaks up for a second, right? Yeah, exactly.

[01:31:55] It's not completely gone, even if you're in night. Yeah, it's totally gone when you're at the very

[01:32:02] top, I think, right? So, yeah. Well, yeah, it's Christmas Day, and Danvers has successfully ruined

[01:32:12] four Christmases, right? She ruined her Christmas. Yeah. She ruined the priors Christmas. Yeah.

[01:32:18] She ruined Ted's Christmas, and she ruined Navarro's Christmas.

[01:32:22] Did she ruin Navarro's Christmas? Yeah, I guess. Well, she did make her work on Christmas,

[01:32:26] but I think she wanted to. I think Navarro wanted to. Yeah, she did make them go out, so, you know,

[01:32:32] that sucked. Yeah. Yeah. Danvers has a dream of Holden and is woken up by Navarro,

[01:32:40] ringing the doorbell. Navarro realizes she lost the stone,

[01:32:44] then tells Danvers that Jules has died. They argue about the existence of the afterlife.

[01:32:50] Navarro thinks she's cursed, and she lies about what happened at Wheeler's. Danvers gets a call.

[01:32:56] So, the dream really quick, one-eyed Holden, quite a lot in there, and then cemeteries. And we saw

[01:33:03] some scenes in the opening credits where these, there's, what I would guess are whale ribs, rib bones

[01:33:09] formed into an archway. And it seems like that might be used as sort of a traditional

[01:33:15] marking or quasi-traditional markings at cemeteries. So, we get some cemetery, some straight-up

[01:33:23] cemetery reference along with Holden here. This whole thing where she's ranting about the afterlife

[01:33:31] was rough. Because, and it was a great example of situational irony, right, where the audience knows

[01:33:39] what just happened to Navarro, but Danvers is just so in her head right now. And Danvers has

[01:33:44] legitimate trauma happening right now, right? She has her stepdaughter basically trying to disown her.

[01:33:50] And yeah, it's just really rough to watch her dig herself deeper into this ditch.

[01:33:56] Well, Navarro standing right there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And again, I think very,

[01:34:06] very true detective, this arguing about the nature of reality and our existence.

[01:34:13] So, you know, still on brand there. I also thought that the No Heaven or Hell,

[01:34:19] that was a nice little Beatles callback given that we've got Twist and Shout, you know, in our ears

[01:34:24] all the time. Heaven and Hell, is that, oh, no, no Heaven or Hell below us? That's not the Beatles.

[01:34:31] That's John Lennon. Well, technically you are correct. He'd be offended. But John Lennon did

[01:34:37] also sing Twist and Shout. So I'll give it to you. Technically, yes, I was mildly incorrect.

[01:34:43] Listen, I had like a Beatles obsession for like a year in high school. So I'll trivia you out.

[01:34:49] All right, that's fine. I'll compete with Jim Beatles trivia.

[01:34:51] That's fine. You can take the old men to the wood shed.

[01:34:53] Schizophrenia, bipolar and borderline personality disorder. So schizophrenia,

[01:35:02] yeah, I was, we were talking about that earlier on in the season. So yeah, that's that is a full

[01:35:08] house there. That's not great. We do have some feedback too that talks a little bit about

[01:35:12] mental health stuff from Bettina W. So we'll talk a little bit more when we get there.

[01:35:16] More about the Wheeler case. Yes. Yes. So, Navarro sees a ghost. Was that the dead girl?

[01:35:26] That's kind of what I read it as. It seemed like the clothing, the top

[01:35:30] seemed to be the same. Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay, good. I thought that

[01:35:35] this was later that they argued about it. Like in the mine, in the abandoned dredge rather,

[01:35:42] no, it was here. It was here. Oh man, I have it mixed up then. But yeah, she's saying, you, you know,

[01:35:47] when she's, when Navarro's going on about like, you know, after seeing the polar bear and seeing

[01:35:53] stuff, and then she says, you, you know, this is just like in the Wheeler case, you saw something then,

[01:36:00] and in Navarro says, "No, I didn't and completely lies about it and shuts it down."

[01:36:05] And Danvers is so pissed at her for not being honest. In this moment of all the times, we need some authenticity and honesty between each other, you're shutting down, and this is BS.

[01:36:21] But it is believable to me that Navarro is withholding like that, right? Completely.

[01:36:27] I think part of it is she's terrified that she's also mentally ill. Completely agree. Completely agree.

[01:36:35] And if she acknowledges it as real out loud, then she has to deal with it.

[01:36:41] She has to decide whether she's going to go with Rose, saying is it mentally ill or is it real ghosts?

[01:36:51] Or is she going to go check into the lighthouse?

[01:36:54] Which is going to end her career.

[01:36:56] Well, she's doing a pretty good job of that herself.

[01:36:59] Without too much help.

[01:37:01] I don't think she needs a diagnosis to end her career.

[01:37:03] So great conversation going on on the Discord the last couple of days, people debating what happened in the Wheeler case.

[01:37:11] I posted a couple of gifts of just showing Navarro and then just showing Danvers as they have their guns drawn on Wheeler.

[01:37:21] And apparently he's whistling Twist and Shout and their reactions to it.

[01:37:25] And so everybody's like, no, I think it's this person. I think he's that person in a really kind of fun. Everybody's having fun with their arguments, you know, the logical, the construction of arguments.

[01:37:38] So it's pretty cool.

[01:37:39] So that is cool. I like it.

[01:37:42] Less seen here, they head out to the old abandoned gold dredge to follow up on a possible setting of what turns out to be heis.

[01:37:51] Navarro starts having visions after seeing the giant spiral.

[01:37:55] Danvers finds heis and Navarro has an encounter that leaves her with a ruptured eardrum.

[01:38:03] Is that a ruptured eardrum or is she's just bleeding from her injuries before?

[01:38:08] No, that's a ruptured eardrum.

[01:38:10] That's what.

[01:38:11] Yeah, that's what the guys had in there.

[01:38:13] Okay.

[01:38:14] Okay.

[01:38:15] So whatever this entity was and is or whatever is going on there, it had a physiological physical response that, you know, or effect that has ruptured her eardrum.

[01:38:32] Well, that's no good. I don't think her ENT doctor is going to be very happy.

[01:38:36] Not at all.

[01:38:38] This whole thing is very reminiscent of season one again, where the two protagonists are separated and they're working their way through some weird ancient structure, trying to confront, you know, whatever is going on here.

[01:38:56] It doesn't resolve in the same way, but certainly is another rhyming couplet with it.

[01:39:04] And again, when we see the giant spiral, we get that weird kind of music, which is interesting.

[01:39:12] And I don't know if that causes the vision that Navarro has, or if that's just all part and partial of it all.

[01:39:22] Yeah, I don't know.

[01:39:23] I mean, she saw the spiral before and it was fine and it was just on the rock.

[01:39:27] It was on the wall.

[01:39:28] Wasn't it in Tegok's place?

[01:39:31] No, it was on a piece of cardboard.

[01:39:33] It was on a piece of cardboard.

[01:39:35] Yeah, but it was a little burnt piece of wood there too.

[01:39:37] So, yeah, yeah, interesting.

[01:39:40] This is the scene that made me immediately message you after I watched the episode and say, "What the fuck was that?"

[01:39:46] Yep.

[01:39:47] It got way more supernatural than I thought it would.

[01:39:50] Yeah.

[01:39:50] Very quickly.

[01:39:51] I got a picture of the entity.

[01:39:54] And so I'll put that in the detective's notebook.

[01:39:57] Okay.

[01:39:58] So no idea what's going on there.

[01:40:02] Yeah.

[01:40:03] No idea.

[01:40:04] The parka that Hess is wearing has a smiley face on the patch.

[01:40:12] Yeah, that's Andy K's jacket.

[01:40:15] But no, because the one that we were looking for, the smiley face is removed and there's a rip in place of the smiley face.

[01:40:27] So, and we only see this, huh?

[01:40:30] There is, huh?

[01:40:31] Yeah.

[01:40:32] So, but I thought that that was, I thought that Clark's current jacket had the smiley face on it.

[01:40:38] Mm-hmm.

[01:40:39] Oh.

[01:40:40] We don't know.

[01:40:41] No, the one he has from episode one, I think, has the rip.

[01:40:45] Or no, we don't see the shoulder.

[01:40:48] We see the color.

[01:40:49] We see just above the shoulder line where that would, where we would see whether it has the smiley face or not.

[01:40:55] And I think in the video, the Andy K video, we would have seen him because we see a full body of him.

[01:40:59] Huh, I'll have to go back and check that.

[01:41:01] Yeah.

[01:41:02] Maybe if anybody's re-watching, send me a screenshot.

[01:41:04] I thought that it had the smiley face.

[01:41:07] Nope.

[01:41:08] I don't think so.

[01:41:09] But I could be wrong.

[01:41:10] So, I think, I have a photo where we see the smiley face on the jacket, but the face of the person is obscured by some equipment, by like an ice core or something like that.

[01:41:21] So, I think that that picture that we have seen of the parka with the smiley face is heiss.

[01:41:28] And then I think we see some other pictures with Clark, and then obviously, Andy K, and she probably has his parka.

[01:41:38] So, I think there's two parkas floating around out there.

[01:41:41] Okay.

[01:41:42] And then we get another electrical disturbance as Evangeline approaches the Christmas tree.

[01:41:49] Mm-hmm.

[01:41:50] Because that wasn't all until she got down there.

[01:41:52] And so, something seems to have as activating it.

[01:41:56] And then heiss says, he went back down to hide.

[01:42:03] He's hiding in the night country.

[01:42:06] We are all in the night country now.

[01:42:11] So, spooky, spooky.

[01:42:21] And then what did Lund say in episode three? I don't have my notes up, but like, we will woke her. She's out there. She's in the ice.

[01:42:30] So, spooky, spooky, spooky.

[01:42:33] We just have to wait.

[01:42:35] Yep.

[01:42:36] Well, we don't have to wait much, but unfortunately, the viewers do, the general public does.

[01:42:40] That's right.

[01:42:41] You know what?

[01:42:42] I'm looking at the pictures of this entity that's screaming at Navarro.

[01:42:48] Mm-hmm.

[01:42:49] It's Jules.

[01:42:51] It's Jules?

[01:42:52] Yeah.

[01:42:53] She has little dots, little dot tattoos coming off of her left eye.

[01:42:58] She has a little ladder design on the traditional chin tattoos.

[01:43:04] And she's got blue hair.

[01:43:08] All right.

[01:43:10] Well, that settles it.

[01:43:12] That is, yeah, I'm pretty sure it is Jules.

[01:43:16] And when she looks down the goal in the gold dredger down from the upper levels, the hair of the body going back.

[01:43:24] I'll have to take another picture of the body floating.

[01:43:26] If I can, I know I've got one somewhere.

[01:43:28] The hair seems to be blue as well.

[01:43:32] So.

[01:43:33] Cool.

[01:43:34] That's a good, that's a good find.

[01:43:37] Yeah.

[01:43:38] Did you see my new rig?

[01:43:40] I took a gorilla.

[01:43:42] I posted this on the, in the.

[01:43:44] Oh, no, I did see this.

[01:43:46] Sorry.

[01:43:47] I thought you went on, on notion or something.

[01:43:48] Yeah.

[01:43:49] No, I, I, I figured out a way I can leave my camera up to take screenshots in a much more efficient manner.

[01:43:55] So.

[01:43:56] That's cool.

[01:43:57] Yeah.

[01:43:58] That's cool.

[01:43:59] Getting some good results.

[01:44:00] Well, David, we've taken this episode apart.

[01:44:03] You lose the bet.

[01:44:04] It's an hour and 46 minutes in.

[01:44:06] We got closer because last time we were like two over two hours just on the content, right?

[01:44:10] Right.

[01:44:11] And now we've still got us in our feedback.

[01:44:13] Yeah.

[01:44:14] See, that takes us way over.

[01:44:15] So.

[01:44:16] Yeah.

[01:44:17] Well, let's take a quick break.

[01:44:18] When we get back, we'll get into it.

[01:44:20] Perfect.

[01:44:21] And we're back.

[01:44:36] David, people want to write in.

[01:44:38] They can go to the lorehounds.com head to our contact page.

[01:44:43] Send us a contact for mentory or a voicemail, which is a lot of fun.

[01:44:47] People do that.

[01:44:48] They can also email truedetective@thelorehounds.com or they can tag us on our Discord server in

[01:44:53] the True Detective channel.

[01:44:55] If they'd like to do that, they could also just hop on the Discord just to be part of

[01:44:58] the conversation.

[01:44:59] A whole lot of fun over there.

[01:45:01] Some people even send us Patreon messages.

[01:45:03] That's true.

[01:45:04] That's true.

[01:45:05] First up is Andrew Kay with an email with a couple of technical suggestions.

[01:45:11] He says, Hey guys, loving the True Detective coverage feels like you're back in your wheelhouse

[01:45:16] as I think back to your indoor coverage.

[01:45:19] It does feel nice to have a really substantial show to be able to cover.

[01:45:25] I had mentioned something about Notion and hit counter things and Andrew Kay said, I know

[01:45:31] that there was a mention about not having a hit counter like the old school days, but

[01:45:35] on the Notion Detective notebook, but he wanted to make sure that I knew that there

[01:45:38] is a stats feature that's built into it.

[01:45:41] So he gave me the helps page for that and so I was able to actually see, oh yeah, you know,

[01:45:47] like what's going on.

[01:45:48] So it's been very helpful.

[01:45:49] Thank you, Andrew.

[01:45:51] And then he continues also, I know another listener has mentioned the intro being a little

[01:45:55] long.

[01:45:56] I think we've shortened it considerably since then, but wondering in the notes, if you could

[01:46:02] add some time markers like the example below, I know it's a bit of added work, but it would

[01:46:07] be swell.

[01:46:09] So he gave an example of being able to, in the show notes, being able to link so that

[01:46:15] the audio will jump to a particular time code.

[01:46:18] And I think we can do that, but we have to publish the episode first and then go back

[01:46:22] in and edit the show notes to be able to do that.

[01:46:26] It's tricky.

[01:46:27] So we've talked about this in the past and basically the problem is we do a separate version

[01:46:31] for patrons and public.

[01:46:33] So I'd have to go and do separate timestamps and it's a little rough.

[01:46:38] So I edit the podcast in reverse.

[01:46:41] It's just kind of not practical for the way I end up going to be honest.

[01:46:44] Right.

[01:46:45] If someone really wants to like listen to the podcast before everyone else and then do timestamps

[01:46:51] for us, maybe we'll do that.

[01:46:53] Yeah.

[01:46:54] But it's a good suggestion.

[01:46:55] Yeah.

[01:46:56] If it were more practical, I'd do it.

[01:46:58] It's just kind of hard to work in.

[01:47:00] If we had an actual engineer, like if we had a big enough Patreon where we could actually

[01:47:03] hire somebody to do all of our editing and engineering, that would be something we could

[01:47:07] totally have them do.

[01:47:09] So I guess I'm not an actual engineer.

[01:47:12] I just learned that you're an engineer that has a day job.

[01:47:16] Yeah.

[01:47:17] Yeah.

[01:47:18] Yeah.

[01:47:19] No, I used to edit the podcast really manually and I think that it's we've been able to do

[01:47:23] more projects because I do it this way now because I do marker style editing, but it

[01:47:30] does have its disadvantages like I can't do timestamps really.

[01:47:34] All right, an email from our old friend, Kim M. Hi, Kim.

[01:47:39] Good to hear from you.

[01:47:41] They say hi, David and John.

[01:47:42] So nice to hear your voices again.

[01:47:44] I've been only listening to audio books for the last couple of months.

[01:47:47] I hope all is well with the both of you.

[01:47:50] Well, it largely is.

[01:47:52] And thanks for asking.

[01:47:55] Kim continues.

[01:47:56] One of the things I noticed when watching movies and shows is the lighting, especially

[01:47:59] artificial lighting in closed spaces.

[01:48:01] I think it's because I took theater production in high school and I went to a four year art

[01:48:06] school with a theater department.

[01:48:07] I was in the visual arts department.

[01:48:09] By the way, I'm a painter.

[01:48:11] Anyway, I know this is from a couple of episodes ago, but I was especially nerding out on the

[01:48:16] scene with Navarro and Kovac inside the shanty.

[01:48:20] I'm guessing the fish swimming was visual effects, but amazing if not.

[01:48:25] I'm not sure if they had lights embedded in the ice to give it that eerie green glow coming

[01:48:30] from the floor.

[01:48:32] If so, if they did, if so, they did add some green bulbs is that a natural color, how many

[01:48:39] lights they use in and around the building, it grows, it glows green on the outside as

[01:48:45] well.

[01:48:46] I'm not asking the right questions.

[01:48:47] Kim says, yeah, the lighting was just really beautiful in that scene and I think it had

[01:48:55] to have been some artificial thing.

[01:48:56] I think they were, they had to mimic that light.

[01:48:59] I don't know in ice fishing.

[01:49:01] If you do put lights down below at night like that, yeah, I have no idea how ice fishing

[01:49:06] was.

[01:49:07] I've never had to ice fish.

[01:49:08] Nancy M posted a picture on the discord of her son and a couple of his buddies ice fishing

[01:49:14] out because they live.

[01:49:15] That's cool.

[01:49:16] That's something to do.

[01:49:17] It was really funny.

[01:49:18] They caught a can of beer.

[01:49:19] Go figure.

[01:49:20] Well, it's something.

[01:49:22] We're not used to looking at people that are being landed from below.

[01:49:27] We've all been conditioned to get the spooky vibe when we see it.

[01:49:31] On top of that, it's green so it's even more strange.

[01:49:34] I love it.

[01:49:36] And Navarro is being lit from her right by a glowing orange heater, so she has an extra

[01:49:42] layer of bizarro shadows and colors on her face.

[01:49:45] That's a really good pick.

[01:49:46] I didn't even notice that.

[01:49:48] Nice one.

[01:49:50] Kim continues life drawing was one of my favorite classes in undergrad.

[01:49:53] I took it often as my elective.

[01:49:55] I can't help but see shadows and lines when I look at people.

[01:49:59] How would I draw you?

[01:50:00] It would be fun to draw miss Reese from that scene.

[01:50:03] Yeah, it would.

[01:50:04] There really a lot going on there with her expressions and stuff.

[01:50:09] Kim concludes my money is on Danvers shooting Wheeler.

[01:50:13] I mean, he started whistling her trigger song, but we do know that Navarro isn't afraid to

[01:50:19] break the law.

[01:50:20] She pours alcohol in the guy's tank in the first episode.

[01:50:22] I'm 75% Danvers, 25% Navarro enjoying the coverage so far.

[01:50:28] As usual and appreciate y'all.

[01:50:29] I'm so happy to have you in my headphones again, best Kim M.

[01:50:34] Good to hear from Kim.

[01:50:35] Yeah.

[01:50:36] Any thoughts?

[01:50:37] Good to be in your headphones again, Kim.

[01:50:39] Absolutely.

[01:50:40] And loving the discussion of visuals.

[01:50:41] I get I always say I'm terrible with visual identification of like, you know, clues and

[01:50:47] whatnot.

[01:50:48] I'm much better with, you know, written word and sound and whatnot.

[01:50:53] But yeah, it's great to when people pointed out to me that I'm like, oh, that's cool.

[01:50:57] Yeah.

[01:50:58] And again, just a really excellent production that the show is really putting them.

[01:51:02] Yeah.

[01:51:03] You know, they're putting the effort in.

[01:51:05] They're putting the hours in for it.

[01:51:07] Yep.

[01:51:08] All right.

[01:51:09] Next up is lore master, Bettina W. Bettina sent in a couple of messages.

[01:51:14] We were gotten into a little chit chat back and forth.

[01:51:18] So and one of her emails was from before, I think it was like right after we recorded

[01:51:23] episode three.

[01:51:25] So I basically took apart her several messages and sort of combined them into one where it

[01:51:30] sort of makes sense.

[01:51:32] Bettina says, spotted three things from my rewatch of episode one.

[01:51:35] First another polar bear that's missing from the notebook, snow covering one of its eyes.

[01:51:40] It's, I believe it's a statue in town and they drive by it.

[01:51:43] And I've added that to the polar bear collection.

[01:51:46] Thank you, Bettina.

[01:51:47] Bettina says, I'm curious to see how far they'll go in trying to tie this back to season one.

[01:51:53] Possible a makana hate cameo or some sort of rust coal flashback.

[01:51:57] I think the consensus is folks are like, we're fine.

[01:52:02] We don't need, you know, we don't need that by and large is what I'm getting a sense of.

[01:52:07] And then Nick Pizalato, the original showrunner, has not been a gentleman about his reactions

[01:52:14] to the season.

[01:52:15] He said some really unkind things online and very short of shade, you know, he's thrown

[01:52:22] some shade about the season that we're on now.

[01:52:25] Yeah.

[01:52:26] That's not good.

[01:52:27] Not at all.

[01:52:28] That's so uncool.

[01:52:29] Yep.

[01:52:30] It's like down in in comments in on his Instagram, he'll say, Oh, can't blame me if you don't

[01:52:37] like the season and why would makana hate it want to come back?

[01:52:42] Like you just really sarcastic cutting bullshit.

[01:52:44] So we don't want that.

[01:52:46] Yeah, it's kind of gross.

[01:52:49] So anyway, we'll see how far they go back.

[01:52:51] I think hopefully they'll connect it more to the grand spirits conspiracy stuff and maybe

[01:52:56] you know, not in the specifics.

[01:53:00] Additionally, when drunk Stacy, which she's talking about Stacey Chalmers gets picked

[01:53:06] up by Danvers, she says something like, my baby, she's not talking to me.

[01:53:11] She's seeing her dead kid, seeing the dead and different ways of dealing with it seem

[01:53:16] to be thematic now.

[01:53:17] That's good.

[01:53:18] Big.

[01:53:19] I hadn't thought about that.

[01:53:20] Hmm.

[01:53:21] And now Danvers is the one drunk driving exactly.

[01:53:24] Right.

[01:53:25] She's like, don't judge me.

[01:53:26] It's like, it's not a question of judgment.

[01:53:29] It's your judgment.

[01:53:30] That's an end of question.

[01:53:32] Right.

[01:53:33] Okay.

[01:53:34] So then Bettina, so that's catching up on all the other stuff.

[01:53:36] And then Bettina says, watch the episode three today and enjoyed the heck out of it.

[01:53:39] Just two quick comments.

[01:53:41] I am a social worker in a psychiatric care facility.

[01:53:45] And mostly I work with people who are diagnosed with schizophrenia.

[01:53:48] So I'm very used to people telling me about seeing or hearing stuff that I can't see and

[01:53:53] or wouldn't identify as quote unquote real.

[01:53:57] After almost 10 years on the job, the rational explanation of biochemical processes in the

[01:54:01] brains has become my default framework to evaluate any situation, even movies or television

[01:54:07] shows that deals with stuff that can't be real.

[01:54:12] Of course, for the person experiencing the hallucinations of any kind, it is very real.

[01:54:18] And people deal with it in a lot of different ways, very much like we see in Ennis, rose

[01:54:22] versus jewels.

[01:54:24] So I find myself sitting on my couch watching weird stuff, not finding it weird or scary

[01:54:28] at all.

[01:54:29] Kind of sucks.

[01:54:30] I'm curious to see if this season will go fully paranormal, leaving it ambiguous or giving

[01:54:37] us a rational explanation for everything.

[01:54:39] I prefer ambiguous or rational.

[01:54:42] I prefer ambiguous or more.

[01:54:45] I don't understand her sentence here.

[01:54:47] I'd prefer either ambiguous or rational.

[01:54:49] So either I think she's saying, you know, either it could be, you know, either they

[01:54:54] don't answer it or it's a rational answer.

[01:54:56] And not paranormal.

[01:54:57] I got it.

[01:54:58] Yeah.

[01:54:59] Yeah.

[01:55:00] I don't think you're going to get what you want.

[01:55:01] I'm going to be honest with you.

[01:55:02] I think after this episode that you had not seen at the time of writing this, we are leaning

[01:55:08] firmly into the paranormal.

[01:55:11] Bettina continues, a huge mental health issue is hearing voices.

[01:55:14] We usually distinguish three kinds of voices.

[01:55:18] Voices talking about the person, voices talking directly to the person, voices giving orders,

[01:55:25] sometimes resulting in severe self harm.

[01:55:28] I know it doesn't translate perfectly to the three kinds of ghosts we're seeing in Ennis.

[01:55:32] But I can't help but think that there's something there.

[01:55:35] Maybe in the end, the big picture won't be about a killer at all, but really only about

[01:55:40] what we can already see, mental health, environmental and domestic violence issues and what it does

[01:55:45] to community.

[01:55:46] I'd like that, she says.

[01:55:49] So what do you think of any thoughts there, and John?

[01:55:51] I think it could be yes, and I think back to Fargo, and I think I brought this up before

[01:55:56] of how they tied up the real life themes of debt and redemption and justice with a supernatural

[01:56:06] plot line just to put a bow on it.

[01:56:09] Doing this three step reveal of you can get all these themes of domestic violence just

[01:56:17] by being there, if you're paying attention, or we will throw in some paranormal stuff just

[01:56:23] to show you how much of victims these people are.

[01:56:28] I think you can have it be layered like that.

[01:56:30] I don't think that the supernatural will necessarily take away from the rational messaging.

[01:56:35] It can just reassert it.

[01:56:38] Right.

[01:56:39] Can augment it or highlight it in some ways?

[01:56:42] Yeah.

[01:56:43] Yeah.

[01:56:44] That's cool.

[01:56:45] I like this parallel that Bettina's pointing out here about the different voices, by and

[01:56:51] large that they categorize, talking to the person, talking about the person, talking directly

[01:56:59] to the person, and then giving orders to someone.

[01:57:02] It does really overlap quite strongly.

[01:57:06] You could see some connectivity there, if you want to, and that's what Rose says, don't

[01:57:12] confuse mental illness for whatever she said, can't remember, she say spiritual or metaphysical

[01:57:18] or whatever, so.

[01:57:22] Bettina concludes, "Finally, the long darkness and the disorienting effect as it has on us

[01:57:27] viewers made me ask myself if I'd rather have a long night or a long day without any darkness

[01:57:33] for weeks.

[01:57:34] I totally go for darkness and gobble up vitamin D pills to get through.

[01:57:38] Imagining a few weeks without it ever getting dark seems very exhausting to me.

[01:57:43] Like there's no time to really rest.

[01:57:45] What about you?

[01:57:46] Cheers, Bettina.

[01:57:47] Thanks, Bettina for writing in, thanks for being so engaged with the show.

[01:57:51] It's been a lot of fun, and I know everybody's, I think our whole community's just really

[01:57:55] happy we've got like a really solid show to work on.

[01:57:59] John, darkness or long dark or a long day?

[01:58:04] Look, you can buy a sleep mask if the light's bothering you and you can't sleep.

[01:58:09] You can't recreate the song, I'm not with you, I'm not with you Bettina, I'm going for

[01:58:15] the light.

[01:58:16] How about you David?

[01:58:17] I would think that from a circadian rhythm standpoint it would be much better to go with

[01:58:24] the daytime because yeah, you could make artificial darkness for yourself.

[01:58:30] At the same time, I don't know, there's something cool about the darkening effect that I don't

[01:58:34] know.

[01:58:36] Maybe if I, I don't know about three months, maybe for a month or a couple of weeks, it

[01:58:41] would be an interesting experience to experience.

[01:58:44] But yeah, I think if I had to do it on, on the regular, I would go with the daylight.

[01:58:48] All right, I'm taking over.

[01:58:51] Loremaster Nancy M wrote in on the Patreon channel for episode three.

[01:58:54] Hi everyone, I was interested in your discussion about whether the mine is a red hair.

[01:59:00] They call it a mine.

[01:59:02] A mine.

[01:59:03] This sent me to the internet for a few searches about contaminated water.

[01:59:09] Here in Canada, boil water advisories are very common on remote slash Northern First

[01:59:15] Nation reserves.

[01:59:17] I found this on the government of Canada's website in 2021, 2% of boil water advisories

[01:59:24] were due to the detection of escharicia.

[01:59:27] Oh, yeah, okay, great.

[01:59:30] Thank you.

[01:59:31] Thank you.

[01:59:32] 8% were due to other microbiological parameters and the remaining 90% were due to equipment

[01:59:37] and process-related problems.

[01:59:40] Most boil water advisories are issued because the equipment and processes used to treat,

[01:59:45] store or distribute drinking water breakdown, require maintenance or have been affected

[01:59:49] by environmental conditions.

[01:59:51] Huh.

[01:59:52] Yeah.

[01:59:53] That's interesting.

[01:59:54] Yeah.

[01:59:55] That's interesting.

[01:59:56] And I wonder if the mine has anything to do with that in 2021.