[00:00.000 --> 00:22.120] Welcome to the True Detective Podcast, where the Lorehounds, your guides to the weirdness
[00:22.120 --> 00:23.120] of the long night.
[00:23.120 --> 00:24.120] I'm David.
[00:24.120 --> 00:28.620] I'm John, and this is our coverage for Season 4, Episode 5 of True Detective Night Country
[00:28.620 --> 00:29.620] on HBO Max.
[00:29.620 --> 00:34.900] We're going to start off this podcast with our hot takes, and then we're going to get right
[00:34.900 --> 00:39.460] into a scene-by-scene breakdown of the episode followed by listen or feedback.
[00:39.460 --> 00:41.580] David, it's so cold you can't dig graves.
[00:41.580 --> 00:44.900] I don't know if we can call them hot takes.
[00:44.900 --> 00:47.620] We're going to serve them up cold, frozen for you.
[00:47.620 --> 00:48.980] We're going to throw them in the trash.
[00:48.980 --> 00:49.980] There you go.
[00:49.980 --> 00:50.980] I'm not even going to cook them.
[00:50.980 --> 00:51.980] There you go.
[00:51.980 --> 00:52.980] Right?
[00:52.980 --> 00:56.720] As a reminder, we do have press screeners for the season, so we're going to post these podcasts
[00:56.720 --> 00:58.760] right after the episode's air.
[00:58.760 --> 01:02.340] This week it's early, so you're getting this on Friday, as you did with the episode since
[01:02.340 --> 01:04.480] the Super Bowls on Sunday.
[01:04.480 --> 01:08.200] But just remember that we want to enjoy the mystery of the show along with you, so we're
[01:08.200 --> 01:10.440] only recording one episode ahead.
[01:10.440 --> 01:12.920] We have not watched Episode 6.
[01:12.920 --> 01:18.600] Episode 6 will drop Sunday, February 18th at 10 p.m. right after the episode, so be sure
[01:18.600 --> 01:20.840] to get your feedback in.
[01:20.840 --> 01:29.360] And your emails to truedetective at the lorehounds.com or head over to the contact page on our website
[01:29.360 --> 01:33.600] and there we've got a form or you can use the voicemail feature.
[01:33.600 --> 01:34.600] Either one is great.
[01:34.600 --> 01:35.600] We love voicemails.
[01:35.600 --> 01:38.080] Also, we've got a Discord.
[01:38.080 --> 01:44.160] We've got separate channels for each of the different episodes and we're doing live chats
[01:44.160 --> 01:45.960] when the episode airs.
[01:45.960 --> 01:51.400] So starting at around 9 p.m. Eastern, you can jump into a special channel where there's
[01:51.400 --> 01:55.760] other people who are doing second screen and we're having fun and talking about the episode
[01:55.760 --> 01:57.200] as it's airing.
[01:57.200 --> 02:01.280] So if that sounds fun, check out the links in the show notes.
[02:01.280 --> 02:03.840] There's all the links for the all the things are there.
[02:03.840 --> 02:06.520] A quick note about our Patreon.
[02:06.520 --> 02:10.960] Subscribers get early and add free access to all of our podcasts, but they also get special
[02:10.960 --> 02:14.200] access to our customized detectives notebook.
[02:14.200 --> 02:20.520] David, you've put out this excellent detective notebook on the inner webs and you've been
[02:20.520 --> 02:24.280] sharing the link among the patrons so that they can enjoy all your clue gathering, all
[02:24.280 --> 02:31.120] your yarn stringing and my virtual red yarn board.
[02:31.120 --> 02:35.600] You are Charlie Day in it's only sunny in Philadelphia with your board and it's great.
[02:35.600 --> 02:39.720] It's very easy to follow and helps me even when I'm trying to remember who people are
[02:39.720 --> 02:44.240] because a lot of people on the show, especially the character guide that's a big help.
[02:44.240 --> 02:49.840] Although I've noticed that in the last couple of episodes, the clue ratio is you know, we're
[02:49.840 --> 02:53.080] getting less and less clues and we're because we're moving the plot forward.
[02:53.080 --> 02:54.080] Fewer.
[02:54.080 --> 02:55.080] Sorry.
[02:55.080 --> 02:56.080] I think Stan is Baratheon.
[02:56.080 --> 02:57.080] That's quite all right.
[02:57.080 --> 02:58.080] Thank you.
[02:58.080 --> 03:00.160] But thank you to everyone who's been sending in some stuff.
[03:00.160 --> 03:03.320] I got a couple of submissions from some folks as well.
[03:03.320 --> 03:04.320] So that's been fun.
[03:04.320 --> 03:08.560] That's kind of become a community input as well.
[03:08.560 --> 03:10.800] So it's a lot of fun.
[03:10.800 --> 03:14.240] I will also make another note about our Patreon.
[03:14.240 --> 03:17.160] We got a lot of subscribers recently.
[03:17.160 --> 03:21.240] Thank you to everyone who's come in, who's been checking this out.
[03:21.240 --> 03:22.920] It's great to have you here.
[03:22.920 --> 03:27.680] I know that it's getting close to the end of the season so I just thought I would make
[03:27.680 --> 03:32.880] a small suggestion that if you want, you could consider an annual subscription.
[03:32.880 --> 03:37.960] It starts about as like $30 and then you're just good for the year and that supports us
[03:37.960 --> 03:41.360] and makes us feel good because we always are sad when people leave.
[03:41.360 --> 03:44.360] But you know, people come and go and that's totally all part of it.
[03:44.360 --> 03:49.040] But we can talk more about the Patreon at the end of the podcast with our upcoming programming
[03:49.040 --> 03:51.080] schedule as well.
[03:51.080 --> 03:52.080] Cool.
[03:52.080 --> 03:58.000] David, I think it's time that we talk about our hot takes for the episode.
[03:58.000 --> 03:59.080] This says spoiler free here.
[03:59.080 --> 04:00.080] I'm taking that out.
[04:00.080 --> 04:01.080] We're doing full swears.
[04:01.080 --> 04:02.080] Oh, that's the old notes.
[04:02.080 --> 04:03.080] Those are the old notes.
[04:03.080 --> 04:06.080] You didn't ask the right questions.
[04:06.080 --> 04:07.080] No.
[04:07.080 --> 04:09.200] I didn't ask the right questions on this outline.
[04:09.200 --> 04:10.200] Is this the right outline?
[04:10.200 --> 04:12.000] Did I actually?
[04:12.000 --> 04:13.000] So what'd you think?
[04:13.000 --> 04:14.000] What'd you think?
[04:14.000 --> 04:17.440] I like, first of all, by the way, in the outline, now you've crossed out spoiler.
[04:17.440 --> 04:19.160] So now they're just free hot takes.
[04:19.160 --> 04:20.160] Free.
[04:20.160 --> 04:22.880] We're giving them away for free.
[04:22.880 --> 04:24.840] That's what we do here at the Lourhounds.
[04:24.840 --> 04:30.040] We're just serving up the hot takes fresh from our truck, our big, you know, our food truck.
[04:30.040 --> 04:31.680] Yeah, I'm going to just kill this metaphor.
[04:31.680 --> 04:34.080] Just move on with my hot takes.
[04:34.080 --> 04:35.080] Okay.
[04:35.080 --> 04:42.400] I was confused by this episode when I first watched it.
[04:42.400 --> 04:47.880] And up until the end, I was kind of going, I kind of hate this episode.
[04:47.880 --> 04:54.680] This is really, it's such a whiplash from the end of episode four.
[04:54.680 --> 04:58.960] And I was just kind of like, what's going on here?
[04:58.960 --> 05:05.320] Well, I will say that after doing the second watch and doing the outline, I am less angry
[05:05.320 --> 05:06.320] at the show.
[05:06.320 --> 05:16.160] But I am worried that the fandom, well, I don't know, whatever, the toxic people on Reddit
[05:16.160 --> 05:17.800] are going to worry about them.
[05:17.800 --> 05:18.800] They'll be fine.
[05:18.800 --> 05:19.800] They'll be fine.
[05:19.800 --> 05:20.800] They'll be fine.
[05:20.800 --> 05:21.800] You know, Issa Lopez is fine.
[05:21.800 --> 05:22.800] She's a great director.
[05:22.800 --> 05:26.960] I'm really looking forward to seeing her career develop.
[05:26.960 --> 05:34.160] Yeah, I just, I'm worried that people are going to feel the whiplash of really going
[05:34.160 --> 05:42.800] from that hard supernatural ending at four to this very normal police procedural corruption,
[05:42.800 --> 05:48.320] you know, turns over a family and, you know, a bunch of cops do some stupid stuff.
[05:48.320 --> 05:51.280] And now they're in the shit, right?
[05:52.280 --> 05:57.480] And so, yeah, like I said, I'm less miffed at the episode now.
[05:57.480 --> 06:04.240] I think the one thing that I'm really stuck on though, is that it is six, we do jump six
[06:04.240 --> 06:09.040] days ahead because Hank says when he goes over to Liz's house, we don't like, I don't
[06:09.040 --> 06:14.800] want to be over here on Christmas Eve, when before it was, you know, Christmas day, basically,
[06:14.800 --> 06:16.800] when we were doing the last stuff.
[06:16.800 --> 06:18.080] New Year's Eve, you mean?
[06:18.080 --> 06:19.080] Sorry.
[06:19.080 --> 06:20.080] Yeah.
[06:20.080 --> 06:21.080] New Year's Eve.
[06:21.080 --> 06:22.080] You go back in time of day.
[06:22.080 --> 06:23.080] No, no.
[06:23.080 --> 06:24.080] Doctor Who.
[06:24.080 --> 06:25.440] This is not time you want me.
[06:25.440 --> 06:30.560] The fact that Navarro basically has no physical injuries after she got the stuffing beat out
[06:30.560 --> 06:32.640] of her really annoys me.
[06:32.640 --> 06:36.400] It's a little detail, but you know, she should be aching and she shouldn't have some bruises.
[06:36.400 --> 06:39.840] I mean, those bruises will develop over six days.
[06:39.840 --> 06:42.280] Her face should look like, you know, rough.
[06:42.280 --> 06:44.360] So that annoyed me.
[06:44.360 --> 06:48.400] And then the fact that they don't address what happened at the end of four with her vision
[06:48.400 --> 06:54.680] and her bleeding eardrum, that really annoyed me and I think that would be my one
[06:54.680 --> 06:55.680] lingering issue.
[06:55.680 --> 07:01.680] The other things don't bother me as much, but the lack of discussion of like, hey, wasn't
[07:01.680 --> 07:02.680] that crazy?
[07:02.680 --> 07:06.560] How you were just like there on the floor and you were unresponsive?
[07:06.560 --> 07:07.560] Yeah.
[07:07.560 --> 07:08.560] Yeah.
[07:08.560 --> 07:11.560] That's, that's, I mean, like, I don't understand that we skipped a few days and maybe there's
[07:11.560 --> 07:12.560] a conversation we didn't see.
[07:12.560 --> 07:17.120] And you know what, maybe they'll flash back to that conversation and have us figure something
[07:17.120 --> 07:20.440] out or maybe they'll mention in the next one, hey, remember when this happened?
[07:20.440 --> 07:24.200] But, but it was a lack of closure.
[07:24.200 --> 07:26.000] Then again, we have another episode.
[07:26.000 --> 07:27.000] So yeah.
[07:27.000 --> 07:28.000] Yeah.
[07:28.000 --> 07:34.280] And, and so I'm just kind of, okay, now that said, all of those little, you know, they're
[07:34.280 --> 07:35.280] not little nitpicks.
[07:35.280 --> 07:43.080] I mean, I think they're kind of, kind of important details that said this ending was a real banger
[07:43.080 --> 07:45.760] of an ending literally.
[07:45.760 --> 07:50.200] Because I love the culmination of it.
[07:50.200 --> 07:56.400] I mean, the hank has nothing left to lose the, the coming apart between him and Peter, the
[07:56.400 --> 07:59.960] fact that Peter is now fully in, you know, she's been fully Danverized.
[07:59.960 --> 08:02.840] You know, she's not, he's not a freshman anymore.
[08:02.840 --> 08:08.440] He's, he's definitely moved up a, a greater to here with his malfeasance.
[08:08.440 --> 08:10.880] It, that was all great.
[08:10.880 --> 08:16.040] And so, you know, the show is still, the acting is great, the, the production and sound is
[08:16.040 --> 08:18.200] not all of that stuff is still really good.
[08:18.200 --> 08:20.840] I just was confused about the, the plot of this thing.
[08:20.840 --> 08:27.840] I will mention something too, and, and not in our discord or, or any of our feedback.
[08:27.840 --> 08:31.640] Everybody seems to be enjoying the show, but I did read in some places that some people
[08:31.640 --> 08:35.000] are, they're not happy with the dialogue.
[08:35.000 --> 08:40.480] And what's interesting is I think the dialogue in this show is some of the most natural,
[08:40.480 --> 08:44.720] normal human dialogue that I've seen on a television show.
[08:44.720 --> 08:50.720] It's not, you know, an extemporaneous talk, and it's not super flowery talk or, you know,
[08:50.720 --> 08:53.400] really well written lines.
[08:53.400 --> 08:55.400] This is how people argue.
[08:55.400 --> 09:00.280] This is how people say, you know, they, they repeat things over and over again.
[09:00.280 --> 09:03.840] They, they, they give up, they get frustrated, they walk away.
[09:03.840 --> 09:10.040] So that reality that she's giving us in the dialogue is really interesting and kind of
[09:10.040 --> 09:13.240] refreshing in a number of ways.
[09:13.240 --> 09:14.240] I agree with that.
[09:14.240 --> 09:18.640] I think there's one scene that I thought the dialogue was a little contrived, but other
[09:18.640 --> 09:22.200] than that, I thought it was overall very realistic.
[09:22.200 --> 09:23.200] Yeah.
[09:23.200 --> 09:24.960] So what did you think about the episode?
[09:24.960 --> 09:29.240] I know we traded messages when, after we both had finished it in our, our respective
[09:29.240 --> 09:30.240] watching.
[09:30.240 --> 09:31.240] Yeah.
[09:31.240 --> 09:32.240] Yeah.
[09:32.240 --> 09:35.040] I, I watched it pretty much right after we recorded last week, I think.
[09:35.040 --> 09:36.040] Yeah.
[09:36.040 --> 09:37.040] Maybe, maybe the following morning.
[09:37.040 --> 09:38.040] I don't remember.
[09:38.040 --> 09:39.040] I think it was the following morning.
[09:39.040 --> 09:40.400] And I watched it that night.
[09:40.400 --> 09:41.400] Okay.
[09:41.400 --> 09:43.600] So I watched it pretty soon after we recorded.
[09:43.600 --> 09:48.200] And I think part of my whiplash with it was the fact that we had just spent two and a half
[09:48.200 --> 09:50.480] hours talking about the previous episode.
[09:50.480 --> 09:54.840] And we had really leaned into the supernatural because that episode leaned into the supernatural.
[09:54.840 --> 09:55.840] Yes.
[09:55.840 --> 10:03.040] And so going into this episode and having a largely, like you said, routine cop trauma felt like
[10:03.040 --> 10:04.280] a step back.
[10:04.280 --> 10:05.520] Yeah, exactly.
[10:05.520 --> 10:10.120] It felt like, okay, we were heading somewhere and now we're on a detour.
[10:10.120 --> 10:12.240] I kind of almost miss it.
[10:12.240 --> 10:16.120] Like it was like a blanket, like a, I was kind of cozy in the supernatural.
[10:16.120 --> 10:18.800] And then suddenly you took the blanket off and now I'm cold, right?
[10:18.800 --> 10:20.040] You know, I'm like, wait, what a minute.
[10:20.040 --> 10:21.280] Get cold around here.
[10:21.280 --> 10:22.280] Absolutely.
[10:22.280 --> 10:23.280] Yeah.
[10:23.280 --> 10:27.600] So I, it felt like a little bit of a step back to me, but then on rewatch, I noticed there
[10:27.600 --> 10:35.120] was a lot of supernatural interwoven, like you have Otis saying she is awake.
[10:35.120 --> 10:36.120] That's what the guy heard.
[10:36.120 --> 10:42.920] And this has the flashback to her hearing that in her spooky dreams or whatever.
[10:42.920 --> 10:49.360] You have, you know, Rose rescuing Navarro out of her trance going into the ice.
[10:49.360 --> 10:56.120] You have, you know, all the mentions of like, I don't want to talk about this, what happened.
[10:56.120 --> 10:58.000] And so I think it's fine.
[10:58.000 --> 11:04.440] If the, if the next episode is going to be, let's resolve all the supernatural shit with
[11:04.440 --> 11:08.560] the taste of, will anyone face consequences for their legal problems?
[11:08.560 --> 11:13.000] Like, you know, I think those are the please officer.
[11:13.000 --> 11:14.000] Sure.
[11:14.000 --> 11:17.200] And, you know, faking a murder suicide, yeah.
[11:17.200 --> 11:25.200] But those are the two hanging legal things and, and, you know, realism things.
[11:25.200 --> 11:31.000] But most of what we have left to resolve are who is she, who is awake?
[11:31.000 --> 11:33.080] And how did these people die?
[11:33.080 --> 11:34.080] Right.
[11:34.080 --> 11:35.400] And that's going to be all supernatural.
[11:35.400 --> 11:44.000] So I guess if I'm being generous, maybe Isalope has wanted to tee up all the routine stuff,
[11:44.000 --> 11:51.300] all the cop drama stuff in this episode and wrap up all the supernatural stuff next episode.
[11:51.300 --> 11:53.560] But that's all speculation because we haven't seen it.
[11:53.560 --> 11:54.560] Right.
[11:54.560 --> 11:56.280] And we don't know her as a director very well.
[11:56.280 --> 11:59.560] Like we have watched three or four different shows that she's produced or something.
[11:59.560 --> 12:01.920] So we don't really have a thumbprint for her.
[12:02.000 --> 12:08.440] I was really thinking that this episode was going to be picking up speed and it wasn't.
[12:08.440 --> 12:13.000] It was largely pretty slow right until the end.
[12:13.000 --> 12:19.560] And I have been a little nervous and a few folks in the discord were getting a little
[12:19.560 --> 12:20.760] nervous as well.
[12:20.760 --> 12:24.840] There's a lot of detail out there still, you know, how they, like you were saying how
[12:24.840 --> 12:25.840] they died.
[12:25.840 --> 12:26.840] How did Annie K die?
[12:26.840 --> 12:33.480] We learned one thing today about how her body got there, about Clark, Solal, Blair of the
[12:33.480 --> 12:38.880] two fingers, you know, the crabs, Sedna, there's like a lot.
[12:38.880 --> 12:39.880] Yeah.
[12:39.880 --> 12:44.200] And I just hope that she brings it all together.
[12:44.200 --> 12:51.880] I'm really putting, I'm really conscious of my trust in her that, okay, you know, let's
[12:51.880 --> 12:53.640] wrap this up because it's a lot.
[12:53.640 --> 12:56.200] And I really want the show to be a success.
[12:56.200 --> 12:57.480] I really want to have enjoyed it.
[12:57.480 --> 13:01.160] I want to really be able to look back and, you know, in December and go, yeah, that was
[13:01.160 --> 13:04.400] a great way to start the year of television.
[13:04.400 --> 13:05.400] Yeah.
[13:05.400 --> 13:09.640] You know, this HBO Sunday night prestige time slot they have.
[13:09.640 --> 13:10.640] Hello.
[13:10.640 --> 13:14.360] Last year we had, we had, was that I said hello on Friday.
[13:14.360 --> 13:15.360] Yes.
[13:15.360 --> 13:16.840] Hello Friday people.
[13:16.840 --> 13:21.440] You know, last year we had the last of us and in previous years HBO has had this great Sunday
[13:21.440 --> 13:24.360] night slot in this in January and February.
[13:24.360 --> 13:30.800] So I really want this to be another solid win for, for prestige television, you know,
[13:30.800 --> 13:31.800] agreed.
[13:31.800 --> 13:32.800] And I want to end on a positive note.
[13:32.800 --> 13:38.040] I, I did really like the episode on rewatch, aged well for me.
[13:38.040 --> 13:39.040] That's good.
[13:39.040 --> 13:43.080] I think part of it is I didn't have the expectation of going down the supernatural rabbit hole.
[13:43.080 --> 13:48.480] So I was more cognizant of the details that were just straight up human drama and they were
[13:48.480 --> 13:49.480] good.
[13:49.480 --> 13:50.920] They did a good job at all those things.
[13:50.920 --> 13:55.600] So I think overall it's a successful episode at what it's trying to do.
[13:55.600 --> 14:01.280] I think both of our problem is that we don't agree with what it was trying to do.
[14:01.280 --> 14:02.280] But that's okay.
[14:02.280 --> 14:03.280] That's okay.
[14:03.280 --> 14:04.280] It's not our show.
[14:04.280 --> 14:05.280] Right.
[14:05.280 --> 14:08.140] So hopefully the finale is satisfying to everyone.
[14:08.140 --> 14:11.840] And we all feel like everything was answered in a satisfying way.
[14:11.840 --> 14:13.360] That's the dream.
[14:13.360 --> 14:14.360] That's the dream.
[14:14.360 --> 14:20.880] All right, David, shall we do some quick notes before we get into our spoilery season?
[14:20.880 --> 14:22.200] Seeing by seeing a recap?
[14:22.200 --> 14:29.120] Yeah, I just wanted to call out that episode six we're going to do.
[14:29.120 --> 14:33.640] So you know, get your feedback in from five and we'll put that in six, but we're going
[14:33.640 --> 14:35.280] to do a feedback episode.
[14:35.280 --> 14:39.120] We're going to do a season wrap up about a week later.
[14:39.120 --> 14:44.600] So be prepared to get feedback in after you see six and we'll just do a whole dedicated
[14:44.600 --> 14:48.080] podcast wrapping up the season and answering everybody's feedback.
[14:48.080 --> 14:52.640] So hopefully we'll get a bumper crop of emails and such not.
[14:52.640 --> 14:56.560] I wanted to shout out to the official podcast, especially this week.
[14:56.560 --> 15:01.680] It had some really great insights into the characters and to Danvers and Navarro's characters.
[15:01.680 --> 15:06.540] As well, they spoke with the cinematographer and the sound designer.
[15:06.540 --> 15:11.440] And that was some really great insights into the way that they've been constructing this
[15:11.440 --> 15:18.040] whole season and how much care and consideration that they've actually put into the design of
[15:18.040 --> 15:19.040] this show.
[15:19.040 --> 15:20.040] So very cool.
[15:20.040 --> 15:27.600] They also dig into a little bit of arctic inupiat mythology and they specifically talk
[15:27.600 --> 15:28.600] about Sedna.
[15:28.600 --> 15:34.160] And they talk to a gentleman from an inupiac gentleman who talks about mythology and the
[15:34.160 --> 15:40.640] role that these stories, these ancient stories play in the lives of people and not only
[15:40.640 --> 15:45.680] the functional aspect of it, but also the cultural aspect of the importance of that stuff.
[15:45.680 --> 15:50.240] So really good episode this week.
[15:50.240 --> 15:54.320] Just to shout out a couple of things on the Discord, people have been talking about theories
[15:54.320 --> 15:57.800] about Danvers, how she lost Jake and Holden.
[15:57.800 --> 15:59.800] Was she driving drunk?
[15:59.800 --> 16:04.240] Is that why she said, like, don't judge me to Connolly.
[16:04.240 --> 16:09.760] So if you've got theories on that or you want to share, definitely get in on the Discord chat
[16:09.760 --> 16:11.720] as well as the Blair theory.
[16:11.720 --> 16:15.320] Today, I was asking, I forgot who it was, was asking, you know, like, hey, we haven't
[16:15.320 --> 16:16.320] seen Blair.
[16:16.320 --> 16:22.200] And I was like, oh, you know, like I had to do the zipper mouth emoji because I knew too
[16:22.200 --> 16:23.200] much.
[16:23.200 --> 16:27.880] So, but I think we should keep those things alive for episode six.
[16:27.880 --> 16:28.880] All right.
[16:28.880 --> 16:29.880] That's it.
[16:29.880 --> 16:30.880] All right.
[16:30.880 --> 16:33.560] Let's move into the scene by scene recap.
[16:33.560 --> 16:37.560] Some of these descriptions are combined to make it easier to discuss.
[16:37.560 --> 16:43.440] So if you hear some scene religions, it is on purpose.
[16:43.440 --> 16:44.440] Here's the cold open.
[16:44.440 --> 16:50.640] We watch as Julia's remains are cremated, collected and given to Evangeline.
[16:50.640 --> 16:58.760] This, I think this is where I really started to get confused on the episode because there's
[16:58.760 --> 17:05.720] Evangeline looking perfectly healthy and you don't cremate somebody the next day, generally,
[17:05.720 --> 17:06.720] right?
[17:06.720 --> 17:07.720] That would be done.
[17:07.720 --> 17:08.720] Right.
[17:08.720 --> 17:09.720] Did we miss a minute?
[17:09.720 --> 17:10.720] You know what?
[17:10.720 --> 17:17.320] I wonder because our screeners do have very specific notes that VFX work wasn't done.
[17:17.320 --> 17:21.920] So I wonder if we're missing some title cards or something on our episode to say, because
[17:21.920 --> 17:24.720] I think it just says on episode six, they're not done.
[17:24.720 --> 17:25.720] Okay.
[17:25.720 --> 17:27.720] I'll double check, but I'm pretty sure that's what it says.
[17:27.720 --> 17:32.120] It'll be interesting to see when the episode airs if they say, you know, Oh, January 31st
[17:32.120 --> 17:33.680] or something like that.
[17:33.680 --> 17:34.680] I don't know.
[17:34.680 --> 17:37.000] I think that's why they put that thing that you mentioned with Hank.
[17:37.000 --> 17:38.000] You're right.
[17:38.000 --> 17:43.640] That's why they, why they said, Oh, well, six days later, but yeah, I think they just put
[17:43.640 --> 17:44.640] you in cold.
[17:44.640 --> 17:45.640] Maybe, maybe there is though.
[17:45.640 --> 17:46.640] I don't know.
[17:46.640 --> 17:47.640] We'll see.
[17:47.640 --> 17:49.960] I remember in foundation, I could have sworn that there should have been voiceovers because
[17:49.960 --> 17:50.960] we were watching.
[17:50.960 --> 17:51.960] I know.
[17:51.960 --> 17:52.960] And there wasn't.
[17:52.960 --> 17:56.000] So we literally had a debate over whether we should cover it without the voiceovers
[17:56.000 --> 17:57.640] and then we were like, Oh, they're just as known.
[17:57.640 --> 17:58.840] Yeah, there just was that.
[17:58.840 --> 18:00.280] So it's a smart lease.
[18:00.280 --> 18:04.800] So I thought it was really interesting, the, that the remains of her hot.
[18:04.800 --> 18:05.800] She's like careful.
[18:05.800 --> 18:06.800] Love their hot.
[18:06.800 --> 18:07.800] Yeah.
[18:07.800 --> 18:08.800] Yeah.
[18:08.800 --> 18:17.280] And it was a very touching scene and it was sad and moving and I really appreciated the
[18:17.280 --> 18:21.880] fact that the technician was like totally cool that you could hang out.
[18:21.880 --> 18:22.880] I'm glad you could hang out.
[18:22.880 --> 18:23.880] Just don't tell anybody.
[18:23.880 --> 18:24.880] Is that what it was?
[18:24.880 --> 18:25.880] Yeah.
[18:25.880 --> 18:26.880] That's what she was saying.
[18:26.880 --> 18:27.880] Don't tell anybody about.
[18:27.880 --> 18:30.000] I was like, why is she saying don't tell anybody?
[18:30.000 --> 18:31.160] Because it would be one thing.
[18:31.160 --> 18:35.000] I thought she was doing it under the table a little bit so she could charge her less.
[18:35.000 --> 18:39.160] But no, it's because because she still has her signed paperwork.
[18:39.160 --> 18:40.160] Yeah.
[18:40.160 --> 18:41.160] Yeah.
[18:41.160 --> 18:42.600] And I was like, Okay, so it's above board.
[18:42.600 --> 18:43.600] So what's going on here?
[18:43.600 --> 18:47.080] Yeah, she's just not supposed to be there when she's doing the work.
[18:47.080 --> 18:48.080] So interesting.
[18:48.080 --> 18:49.080] Yeah.
[18:49.080 --> 18:51.880] And I thought that that was just that was just a nice little touch, you know.
[18:51.880 --> 18:52.880] So yeah.
[18:52.880 --> 18:57.720] And it was kind of a, I mean, kind of a rough way to start, but yeah.
[18:57.720 --> 18:58.720] A little dark.
[18:58.720 --> 18:59.720] A little dark.
[18:59.720 --> 19:06.000] Speaking of the opposite of dark, at the lighthouse facility, Danvers questions, heiss about Clark
[19:06.000 --> 19:08.560] and how he first got his injuries.
[19:08.560 --> 19:13.000] Heiss will lead to them to the cave, but he wants to get well first.
[19:13.000 --> 19:15.840] As soon as I said that, I was brought back to Breaking Bad.
[19:15.840 --> 19:17.840] That's like the first time I heard that phrase.
[19:17.840 --> 19:18.840] Oh, get well.
[19:18.840 --> 19:19.840] Yeah.
[19:19.840 --> 19:20.840] I think.
[19:20.840 --> 19:21.840] Yeah.
[19:21.840 --> 19:22.840] Yeah.
[19:22.840 --> 19:26.560] I knew the minute he said that I was like, Oh, she's absolutely going to get him heroin.
[19:26.560 --> 19:27.560] Are we kidding?
[19:27.560 --> 19:28.560] Absolutely.
[19:28.560 --> 19:31.720] There's no way we finish this episode without her getting him heroin.
[19:31.720 --> 19:38.440] That was Chekhov's heroin right there, just like, okay, we know this is coming.
[19:38.440 --> 19:47.680] Yeah, this was interesting too, because again, we went from crazy heiss in the corner, you
[19:47.680 --> 19:50.680] know, screeching about, you know, she's out there.
[19:50.680 --> 19:51.680] She's in the ice.
[19:51.680 --> 19:56.320] You know, we're in the night country too, just a dude going through normal withdrawals,
[19:56.320 --> 19:57.320] right?
[19:57.320 --> 19:59.960] I love when he, she goes, well, you said he's in the night country.
[19:59.960 --> 20:01.800] He goes, did I say that?
[20:01.800 --> 20:02.800] Yes.
[20:02.800 --> 20:03.800] That's super weird.
[20:03.800 --> 20:04.800] Exactly.
[20:04.800 --> 20:06.800] It doesn't remember anything.
[20:06.800 --> 20:07.800] She's awake.
[20:07.800 --> 20:08.800] I have to hide.
[20:08.800 --> 20:09.800] She's out there.
[20:09.800 --> 20:12.480] I think is what he had said, right?
[20:12.480 --> 20:13.480] Yeah.
[20:13.480 --> 20:14.480] Yeah.
[20:14.480 --> 20:18.960] So injuries, so a cave in trapped blizzard.
[20:18.960 --> 20:23.320] The men were following some sort of screaming and howling and then he blacked out.
[20:23.320 --> 20:24.800] So there were other people.
[20:24.800 --> 20:27.240] That's a good question.
[20:27.240 --> 20:32.520] We don't know who else was there and that's not in any of the reports that Peter's turned
[20:32.520 --> 20:33.520] up.
[20:33.520 --> 20:38.080] So maybe that again goes to the question of who scrubbed the records.
[20:38.080 --> 20:44.000] Was it McKittrick or was it, you know, the people above the mine and above Solal?
[20:44.000 --> 20:45.920] It was the Hank-Kittrick machine.
[20:45.920 --> 20:47.560] I think.
[20:47.560 --> 20:48.560] You think so?
[20:48.560 --> 20:49.560] Yeah, I think.
[20:49.560 --> 20:50.560] I think it was.
[20:50.560 --> 20:51.560] There you go though.
[20:51.560 --> 20:52.560] That's a long time ago.
[20:52.560 --> 20:55.840] No, I think that now they went back and they were like, erase these.
[20:55.840 --> 20:56.840] Huh, interesting.
[20:56.840 --> 20:59.920] I think after the N.E.K. thing they were like, we got to go over this shit.
[20:59.920 --> 21:03.000] We got to clean up the records a little bit.
[21:03.000 --> 21:07.520] It's like when they couldn't find Camino on the Jedi archives, you know, it's not that
[21:07.520 --> 21:08.520] it was never there.
[21:08.520 --> 21:10.200] It's just that it's not there now.
[21:10.200 --> 21:11.520] Right, right, right.
[21:11.520 --> 21:12.520] We didn't erase it.
[21:12.520 --> 21:17.160] We just didn't include it in the new records.
[21:17.160 --> 21:21.080] So I thought it was interesting that he doesn't know Clark from before.
[21:21.080 --> 21:22.280] Is he lying?
[21:22.280 --> 21:26.240] Or I guess if it was 30 years ago, Solal was only 18 years old.
[21:26.240 --> 21:27.240] Yeah, I know.
[21:27.240 --> 21:29.640] I don't think Solal was involved at all with the original incident.
[21:29.640 --> 21:30.640] Interesting.
[21:30.640 --> 21:35.280] He said I knew about Solal, but I wasn't involved with them, you know.
[21:35.280 --> 21:37.960] I think that they met in the night country recently.
[21:37.960 --> 21:38.960] Right.
[21:38.960 --> 21:41.560] They're both hiding from she, her, whatever.
[21:41.560 --> 21:42.840] Right, right.
[21:42.840 --> 21:45.520] So yeah, this cave thing is a big, big time mystery.
[21:45.520 --> 21:54.040] In the notebook, I grabbed some good photos too from the opening credits and there's definitely
[21:54.040 --> 22:00.560] a picture of a frozen foot embedded in the ice, very similar to the fossils.
[22:00.560 --> 22:05.280] And then there's a big hatch like AKA lost, you know, kind of hatch.
[22:05.280 --> 22:09.320] And then there's actually one little short scene of them, you know, of sort of like as
[22:09.320 --> 22:12.600] you try, if you're traveling through an ice cave.
[22:12.600 --> 22:16.280] So I think this is, yeah, we're at the end of our mystery here.
[22:16.280 --> 22:19.840] So we're going to get to whatever this is all about.
[22:19.840 --> 22:20.840] This is it.
[22:20.840 --> 22:21.840] Yep.
[22:21.840 --> 22:22.840] Yep.
[22:22.840 --> 22:28.760] So Danvers and Navarro head out of the, out to the cave complex with Julia's remains.
[22:28.760 --> 22:35.040] They discover that the entrance is not accessible and Navarro isn't happy.
[22:35.040 --> 22:38.360] So yeah, it looks very intentionally covered up, right?
[22:38.360 --> 22:40.560] My kid trick is absolutely involved with it.
[22:40.560 --> 22:41.560] See, this is what I'm saying.
[22:41.560 --> 22:46.520] Like she had to have been involved with all of the deletion of stuff.
[22:46.520 --> 22:50.480] Even if it wasn't Hank who did it directly, somebody did it at her direction.
[22:50.480 --> 22:51.480] Right.
[22:51.480 --> 22:52.480] Right.
[22:52.480 --> 22:57.360] Her fingerprints or paw prints, whatever you want to say are all over this.
[22:57.360 --> 22:58.360] Yeah.
[22:58.360 --> 22:59.360] For sure.
[22:59.360 --> 23:00.360] For sure.
[23:00.360 --> 23:07.800] But I don't, hey, yeah, I want to know, I guess my question is how far up does it goes?
[23:07.800 --> 23:16.040] Because if it's just McKittrick as the mine director, the boss on site, you know, is she
[23:16.040 --> 23:21.520] just sort of fixing things here in the moment or is there a bigger conspiracy?
[23:21.520 --> 23:26.280] That's really where I'm focused at because McKittrick in the end of the day is kind of
[23:26.280 --> 23:29.760] small fry in that I would think.
[23:29.760 --> 23:31.320] Because that's, this is a lot of money.
[23:31.320 --> 23:32.480] The mine is a lot of money.
[23:32.480 --> 23:38.360] So all is a lot of money, you know, and if they're, if they're researching some amazing
[23:38.360 --> 23:45.600] cure all microbe or something, you know, whatever it is that it's, you know, I could see nefarious
[23:45.600 --> 23:48.320] forces really wanting to get their hands on that.
[23:48.320 --> 23:49.320] Yeah.
[23:49.400 --> 23:52.400] Especially Kate McKittrick nay Tuttle.
[23:52.400 --> 23:53.400] Yes.
[23:53.400 --> 23:54.400] Exactly.
[23:54.400 --> 23:55.400] Exactly.
[23:55.400 --> 23:56.400] I'm, I'm betting on it.
[23:56.400 --> 23:57.400] She's a Tuttle.
[23:57.400 --> 23:58.400] She's a secret Tuttle.
[23:58.400 --> 23:59.400] Ooh.
[23:59.400 --> 24:00.400] I like that theory.
[24:00.400 --> 24:01.400] I don't even know who the Tuttle's are.
[24:01.400 --> 24:02.400] Really.
[24:02.400 --> 24:03.560] I think she's a secret Tuttle.
[24:03.560 --> 24:06.080] I can't wait till you do go back and watch season one.
[24:06.080 --> 24:09.000] I want to, I want to hear your, yeah, I probably will.
[24:09.000 --> 24:12.920] I don't know if I want to watch season two and three, but I'll definitely watch season one.
[24:12.920 --> 24:13.920] Definitely season one.
[24:14.920 --> 24:20.840] It's kind of, it's like that first year of madmen or, or, you know, breaking bad.
[24:20.840 --> 24:23.440] It's just, it's just one of those things that you, you kind of have to see.
[24:23.440 --> 24:26.880] Like if you're, if you're in the television game, it's definitely something you got to
[24:26.880 --> 24:27.880] have under your belt.
[24:27.880 --> 24:28.880] Yeah.
[24:28.880 --> 24:29.880] I just have such a plate right now.
[24:29.880 --> 24:30.880] I got to finish Halo.
[24:30.880 --> 24:34.320] I got to go, go back and watch more Fargo.
[24:34.320 --> 24:36.280] I got, I got so much stuff going on.
[24:36.280 --> 24:40.920] You know, we talk a lot about the, the detectives journal right now, but we also have the show
[24:40.920 --> 24:43.800] tracker and I've been trying to keep that thing up.
[24:43.800 --> 24:47.680] In the volume, I went to check on the discord, we have a one channel that pulls a feed from
[24:47.680 --> 24:52.480] a film and movie making discord, another discord.
[24:52.480 --> 24:57.440] Over the last two days, there's been over 30 announcements in that channel, that little
[24:57.440 --> 25:02.240] newsfeed of, you know, dates that have been updated, new shows that are coming out, new
[25:02.240 --> 25:07.880] announcements for, for 2024 projects as well as 2025 projects.
[25:07.880 --> 25:09.640] It's like a fire hose right now.
[25:09.640 --> 25:13.360] And I'm just really glad that we do have the show tracker to help kind of thread through
[25:13.360 --> 25:16.440] all of this stuff because it's, it's madness right now.
[25:16.440 --> 25:18.880] Well, much appreciated that you've put it together.
[25:18.880 --> 25:19.880] Shall we move on?
[25:19.880 --> 25:20.880] Yeah.
[25:20.880 --> 25:21.880] Yeah.
[25:21.880 --> 25:27.320] Shall we move on to Kayla, who packs a bag for Peter and asks him not to come home tonight.
[25:27.320 --> 25:31.720] Peter calls his dad from outside his dad's house and hears him playing guitar.
[25:31.720 --> 25:36.000] Leah and Sherry attend a protest at the mine.
[25:36.000 --> 25:38.960] So John Hawks is a real musician.
[25:38.960 --> 25:39.960] Really?
[25:39.960 --> 25:40.960] Yeah.
[25:40.960 --> 25:46.840] And a number of bands, if you, if you Google for, if you Google John Hawks band, you'll
[25:46.840 --> 25:52.120] get a link, though there's several links that will reference the two or three different
[25:52.120 --> 25:54.160] bands that he's been in.
[25:54.160 --> 25:59.000] And I think that this is an unpublished original song.
[25:59.000 --> 26:01.400] I mean, Shazam couldn't find it.
[26:01.400 --> 26:05.280] And I obviously didn't go digging through the filmography or the, the, the, the, the
[26:05.280 --> 26:11.440] discography of, of his previous bands, but it feels like every single song, I was a
[26:11.440 --> 26:15.760] little busy this week, uh, normally I probably would have done it.
[26:15.760 --> 26:16.760] It's unlike you.
[26:16.760 --> 26:17.760] It's unlike you David.
[26:17.760 --> 26:18.760] It is.
[26:18.760 --> 26:20.560] It's, it was such a good song though.
[26:20.560 --> 26:22.120] It's so very Johnny Cash.
[26:22.120 --> 26:27.800] It's so very fit the whole bridge of the mine, protest and all this stuff.
[26:27.800 --> 26:28.800] It was, it was really good.
[26:28.800 --> 26:29.800] He's got a good voice.
[26:29.800 --> 26:30.800] I, I like that song.
[26:30.800 --> 26:31.800] He does.
[26:31.800 --> 26:34.560] I, you know, I was going to say, why is he doing murder for hire when he could just
[26:34.560 --> 26:37.920] be a Johnny Cash impersonator at weddings in Alaska.
[26:37.920 --> 26:39.360] It's got to be a paying gig, man.
[26:39.360 --> 26:40.360] Yeah.
[26:40.360 --> 26:41.360] Everybody.
[26:41.360 --> 26:42.360] I'm saying.
[26:42.360 --> 26:43.360] I'm saying.
[26:43.360 --> 26:47.760] Look at Sarah Palin and her like I bet you Sarah Palin would hire a Johnny Cash impersonator
[26:47.760 --> 26:48.760] for a wedding.
[26:48.760 --> 26:49.760] Anchorage.
[26:49.760 --> 26:51.080] I'm sure Anchorage is a bustling music scene.
[26:51.080 --> 26:52.080] I think so.
[26:52.080 --> 26:53.080] I think so.
[26:53.080 --> 26:54.080] Right.
[26:54.080 --> 26:55.080] Right.
[26:55.080 --> 26:59.640] If Sarah Palin is a listener of the pause, please write a former governor of Alaska.
[26:59.640 --> 27:01.480] Oh man.
[27:01.480 --> 27:03.680] I was feeling rough for Peter here, you know,
[27:03.680 --> 27:06.680] says I think it is way over to his dad's house.
[27:06.680 --> 27:07.680] Yeah.
[27:07.680 --> 27:15.960] I think, I think that if Peter hadn't said that thing about admit it, you know, I ruined
[27:15.960 --> 27:16.960] your life.
[27:16.960 --> 27:17.960] You didn't want the baby.
[27:17.960 --> 27:20.920] I think up until that point, it was pretty bad.
[27:20.920 --> 27:22.480] It was, it was salvageable.
[27:22.480 --> 27:25.080] They could have gotten some help and gotten through it.
[27:25.080 --> 27:33.520] But that was a really rough comment that that just, like he's the one in the wrong, but
[27:33.520 --> 27:34.520] he's yelling at her.
[27:34.520 --> 27:38.240] And that's just the opposite of what he should do.
[27:38.240 --> 27:39.240] Yeah.
[27:39.240 --> 27:43.800] He should have been begging for forgiveness and like, I'm going to set up new boundaries
[27:43.800 --> 27:46.800] with Danvers right after we finish this case.
[27:46.800 --> 27:47.800] Right.
[27:47.800 --> 27:49.800] I think that that would have been a, would have been a reasonable thing to say.
[27:49.800 --> 27:50.800] I called the therapist.
[27:50.800 --> 27:54.560] I'm going to, I'm going to work on, I'm going to go to work on myself, whatever.
[27:54.560 --> 27:55.560] Yeah.
[27:55.560 --> 27:57.560] Right.
[27:57.560 --> 28:00.320] But no, instead he goes through his dad's house.
[28:00.320 --> 28:03.760] I thought it was crazy that he's outside his dad's house.
[28:03.760 --> 28:08.680] He feels so embarrassed that he's already there, that he's like, I'm five minutes away.
[28:08.680 --> 28:09.680] Yeah.
[28:09.680 --> 28:10.680] Yeah.
[28:10.680 --> 28:12.280] That was a really good little line.
[28:12.280 --> 28:13.280] It felt real.
[28:13.280 --> 28:14.280] It did.
[28:14.280 --> 28:17.840] You know, that feels like something you would do if you were like embarrassed to go back to
[28:17.840 --> 28:18.840] your parents house.
[28:18.840 --> 28:23.280] Well, yeah, the, the, the, not being too eager, hey, I'm already here or knock, knock.
[28:23.280 --> 28:24.280] Yeah.
[28:24.280 --> 28:25.280] Yeah.
[28:25.280 --> 28:26.280] Right.
[28:26.280 --> 28:29.640] You know, I can, I can totally relate to that where you're like trying to play it nonchalant.
[28:29.640 --> 28:30.640] No, it's cool.
[28:30.640 --> 28:31.640] Yeah.
[28:31.640 --> 28:32.640] I'll be over in a few minutes.
[28:32.640 --> 28:33.640] Yeah.
[28:33.640 --> 28:34.640] Yeah.
[28:34.640 --> 28:35.640] Yeah.
[28:35.640 --> 28:36.640] Poor Peter.
[28:36.640 --> 28:37.640] Had a rough episode.
[28:37.640 --> 28:38.640] He did.
[28:38.640 --> 28:39.640] He really did actually.
[28:39.640 --> 28:41.800] He got, he, he got kicked out of his house.
[28:41.800 --> 28:49.120] He got reeked over the coals by Danvers found out that his dad stole from him and then he
[28:49.120 --> 28:50.680] murdered his father.
[28:50.680 --> 28:51.680] Yes.
[28:51.680 --> 28:52.680] It's rough.
[28:52.680 --> 28:54.760] Well, we can debate if it's a murder.
[28:54.760 --> 28:56.920] I think a good point.
[28:56.920 --> 29:01.800] I think killing himself, killing in defense of another would be a fair way to frame it.
[29:01.800 --> 29:02.880] But now he's covering it up.
[29:02.880 --> 29:05.200] So he's still, yeah, he killed his dad.
[29:05.200 --> 29:06.200] Yeah.
[29:06.200 --> 29:07.200] Yeah.
[29:07.200 --> 29:08.200] Yeah.
[29:08.200 --> 29:12.680] It's, there's, there's definitely a sticky situation created by the cover up, especially
[29:12.680 --> 29:13.680] on those floors.
[29:13.680 --> 29:15.600] You got to do a good job cleaning.
[29:15.600 --> 29:19.720] State troopers are dispatched to the mine protest along with Navarro.
[29:19.720 --> 29:28.560] Navarro has a vision of Annie K. Leah is assaulted by a trooper and Sherry runs away.
[29:28.560 --> 29:33.440] Navarro steps in to protect Leah.
[29:33.440 --> 29:43.240] Protests scenes are so very awkward to film and stage and I thought it was good.
[29:43.240 --> 29:46.320] I thought it was better than a lot that I've seen.
[29:46.320 --> 29:51.360] There's some things that bothered me, but it was, it was better than, than many that,
[29:51.360 --> 29:52.360] that do it.
[29:52.360 --> 29:53.360] It's tough.
[29:53.360 --> 29:57.600] It's a tough thing to, to maintain that energy take after take and to film the action.
[29:57.600 --> 29:58.600] So.
[29:58.600 --> 29:59.600] Yeah.
[29:59.600 --> 30:02.640] I think the, the one better that I could point to is also an HBO show, we own the city.
[30:02.640 --> 30:04.880] They had a really good protest scene in that.
[30:04.880 --> 30:05.880] Okay.
[30:05.880 --> 30:09.000] But other than that, I think this is probably the best one I've seen.
[30:09.000 --> 30:11.600] And again, Navarro here, totally fine.
[30:11.600 --> 30:12.600] She's not limping.
[30:12.600 --> 30:14.400] She doesn't have any cracked ribs.
[30:14.400 --> 30:18.680] You know, she's able to, you know, actually fight another trooper, you know, without any
[30:18.680 --> 30:19.680] problem.
[30:19.680 --> 30:23.800] It just, I was still stuck on that one when this scene came up.
[30:23.800 --> 30:24.800] Yeah.
[30:24.800 --> 30:29.600] I did like that Navarro took a good side in the end.
[30:29.600 --> 30:35.000] And even though Leah won't acknowledge it, but Navarro probably saved Leah, like internal
[30:35.000 --> 30:36.000] bleeding.
[30:36.000 --> 30:37.000] Probably.
[30:37.000 --> 30:38.000] Yeah.
[30:38.000 --> 30:39.000] Like really serious injuries.
[30:39.000 --> 30:40.000] Yeah.
[30:40.000 --> 30:41.400] She was about to get beat to shit by that guy.
[30:41.400 --> 30:42.400] Yeah.
[30:42.400 --> 30:43.400] Completely.
[30:43.400 --> 30:48.560] And, and I didn't wonder when she was at the laundromat later and like, uh, is that being
[30:48.560 --> 30:49.760] comic banging on the window?
[30:49.760 --> 30:50.760] Like she's here, she here.
[30:50.760 --> 30:56.520] I thought it would be like some locals in the town like, Oh, our hero, Navarro, like
[30:56.520 --> 30:59.960] she's, you know, come to our side protector of the people kind of thing.
[30:59.960 --> 31:02.760] I don't know if they're going to do that for any time.
[31:02.760 --> 31:04.760] I just don't think it's going to happen.
[31:04.760 --> 31:06.840] I mean, she was still in riot gear, wasn't she?
[31:06.840 --> 31:07.840] I mean, come on.
[31:07.840 --> 31:08.840] Yeah.
[31:08.840 --> 31:09.840] Come on.
[31:09.840 --> 31:10.840] All right.
[31:10.840 --> 31:14.600] I'm not only to show up at the mine for a meeting with McKittrick.
[31:14.600 --> 31:17.720] She then gets a call from Navarro about Leah.
[31:17.720 --> 31:21.200] Navarro brings Leah into the station to be processed.
[31:21.200 --> 31:24.320] Danvers confronts Peter about Leah.
[31:24.320 --> 31:30.480] And then we learn about the connection between silver sky mine and salal.
[31:30.480 --> 31:34.120] So tunnel United, uh, what did she say?
[31:34.120 --> 31:35.920] Palm oil, video games, cruise lines.
[31:35.920 --> 31:40.200] So tunnel United has got money splashed out all over the place, right?
[31:40.200 --> 31:42.200] Like big holding companies.
[31:42.200 --> 31:43.200] Can I ask you?
[31:43.200 --> 31:47.280] Why is cruise lines like the thing that HBO wants to sell us is like a rich person's
[31:47.280 --> 31:48.280] business?
[31:48.280 --> 31:51.360] Like them and succession, that's like a thing.
[31:51.360 --> 31:56.200] Well, what was it the thing in the, in the final season they wanted to create sort of
[31:56.200 --> 32:02.920] this, uh, uh, controlled living environment where you could, uh, just sort of plug in and.
[32:02.920 --> 32:05.520] And then they made like, Oh, no, we, we can't, we can't spoil this.
[32:05.520 --> 32:08.920] We can't spoil this anymore, but, uh, I was going to, I was going to quote something
[32:08.920 --> 32:09.920] from that.
[32:09.920 --> 32:13.920] Okay, I was going to actually think of a call out to what was the, oh, what was that movie
[32:13.920 --> 32:17.800] Wally where there are all the people are on the cruise lot, you know, they're out.
[32:17.800 --> 32:19.200] Have you seen that movie?
[32:19.200 --> 32:20.200] I have not seen it.
[32:20.200 --> 32:21.200] Okay.
[32:21.200 --> 32:22.200] I don't know.
[32:22.200 --> 32:25.120] My daughter thought a big robot guy, a robot girl got it.
[32:25.120 --> 32:31.120] It's a big, big space liners where people just cruise around in these floating seats and it's
[32:31.120 --> 32:36.400] like they're on a perpetual cruise, uh, constantly being entertained and fed and, uh, yeah,
[32:36.400 --> 32:38.400] completely disassociated with reality.
[32:39.040 --> 32:40.040] Fun.
[32:40.040 --> 32:43.040] You know, if I move in with you, that's going to seal the divorce.
[32:43.040 --> 32:45.000] That's going to fast-track me to a divorce.
[32:45.000 --> 32:46.600] That was a great line.
[32:46.600 --> 32:47.600] It was.
[32:47.600 --> 32:48.600] It's not a divorce.
[32:48.600 --> 32:49.600] Oh, okay.
[32:49.600 --> 32:54.200] He kind of clues in Liz to like she's part of the problem though.
[32:54.200 --> 32:55.200] Yeah.
[32:55.200 --> 32:56.400] And she does not pick up on it.
[32:56.400 --> 32:57.400] I don't think.
[32:57.400 --> 32:58.400] Yeah.
[32:58.400 --> 32:59.400] She's like, ah, that's same.
[32:59.400 --> 33:00.400] Okay.
[33:00.400 --> 33:01.400] Exactly.
[33:01.400 --> 33:02.600] That's the, that's the job, right?
[33:02.600 --> 33:03.600] You know?
[33:03.600 --> 33:04.600] Yeah.
[33:04.600 --> 33:05.600] Sorry.
[33:08.800 --> 33:10.400] Do you buy this whole connection?
[33:10.400 --> 33:14.200] Do you think this is going to be instrumental to the end?
[33:14.200 --> 33:27.200] What I didn't like was the introduction that Salal was verifying environmental reports for
[33:27.200 --> 33:28.680] silver sky mine.
[33:28.680 --> 33:32.360] That's a new connection that they didn't give us before.
[33:32.360 --> 33:38.040] And so we didn't think prior to this that there was any connection between the mine and
[33:38.040 --> 33:39.040] Salal.
[33:39.040 --> 33:41.080] Just Salal was just a pure research station.
[33:41.080 --> 33:47.680] If somewhere they had said, oh, you know, yeah, Salal, you know, does some environmental
[33:47.680 --> 33:51.760] consulting on the side and they do some pollution monitoring or something.
[33:51.760 --> 33:52.760] I don't know.
[33:52.760 --> 33:56.280] It just seemed a little bit out of the blue for me that there is a connection.
[33:56.280 --> 33:57.920] I don't mind that there's a connection.
[33:57.920 --> 33:58.920] That's all fine.
[33:58.920 --> 34:04.160] I was just a little taken aback by the abruptness in how we learned that.
[34:04.160 --> 34:08.560] I wonder if we missed steps one and two of the Martin three step reveal.
[34:08.560 --> 34:12.000] I wonder if it was there and we just didn't pick up on it and on a rewatch, we would get
[34:12.000 --> 34:13.000] it.
[34:13.000 --> 34:16.960] I don't think so because because like at the beginning, I think that there is a pretty
[34:16.960 --> 34:20.160] broad description of Salal from that.
[34:20.160 --> 34:25.600] The one consultant that Liz slept with and then made talked to her where he's like, yeah,
[34:25.600 --> 34:27.520] they do a lot of research around it.
[34:27.520 --> 34:28.520] Yeah.
[34:28.520 --> 34:29.520] Brice.
[34:29.520 --> 34:30.520] Yeah.
[34:30.520 --> 34:31.520] Brice.
[34:31.520 --> 34:32.520] Yeah.
[34:32.520 --> 34:36.480] Oh, well, yeah, they do a bunch of research about the environment around here.
[34:36.480 --> 34:39.840] I think that it was broader than just they're looking for this one thing.
[34:39.840 --> 34:42.720] I think he was just like, well, this is what I'm really excited about with that.
[34:42.720 --> 34:43.720] Yeah.
[34:43.720 --> 34:45.800] But I don't think he limited it to that.
[34:45.800 --> 34:52.600] Yeah, interesting because just the fact that Salal validates some environmental reports
[34:52.600 --> 35:00.280] for the town about the mines pollution, like I don't mind the nefarious background connections,
[35:00.280 --> 35:03.240] you know, the different holding companies and all that kind of stuff.
[35:03.240 --> 35:04.240] That's good.
[35:04.240 --> 35:11.560] But yeah, just the idea that Salal is doing some functional element for the mine, that just
[35:11.560 --> 35:14.080] seemed very new to me, so.
[35:14.080 --> 35:17.000] Yeah, I hear you.
[35:17.000 --> 35:18.440] I hear you.
[35:18.440 --> 35:26.200] All right, Peter brings Leah, a Pepsi and Cheetos and Leah reminds Peter of who he really is.
[35:26.200 --> 35:28.960] I don't know if I agree with that statement, David.
[35:28.960 --> 35:30.400] He wrote this outline.
[35:30.400 --> 35:32.520] I don't, I don't think she reminds of who he really is.
[35:32.520 --> 35:35.760] I think she reminds of who he really was.
[35:35.760 --> 35:39.160] Uh, that's a, I'll take that.
[35:39.160 --> 35:40.160] Yeah.
[35:40.160 --> 35:41.920] Who, what does she say?
[35:41.920 --> 35:44.320] Don't let Liz ruin that guy.
[35:44.320 --> 35:45.840] And I think Liz did the job.
[35:45.840 --> 35:47.840] I think that guy is done.
[35:47.840 --> 35:49.400] It's already done.
[35:49.400 --> 35:53.200] He's certainly done this episode as a murder suicide victim.
[35:53.200 --> 35:54.200] Right.
[35:54.200 --> 35:55.200] Yeah.
[35:55.200 --> 35:58.040] Who definitely committed suicide and wasn't shot.
[35:58.040 --> 35:59.960] I really like this scene.
[35:59.960 --> 36:06.800] I like this intimacy between, I like that they established this relationship and that I like
[36:06.800 --> 36:12.720] that we got the various scenes throughout the season with them so that it really makes
[36:12.720 --> 36:16.320] this scene a lot more touching.
[36:16.320 --> 36:17.880] So it really sets us up.
[36:17.880 --> 36:23.320] So when Peter does pull the trigger, there's so much more behind that.
[36:23.320 --> 36:24.320] Yeah.
[36:24.960 --> 36:27.000] The fact that, you know, he's kicked out.
[36:27.000 --> 36:28.000] Okay.
[36:28.000 --> 36:35.000] Well, that's a story that we've seen done a lot around police and law enforcement, right?
[36:35.000 --> 36:42.360] But the fact that Peter's this good guy and now he's not only did he kill his dad, he's
[36:42.360 --> 36:45.600] got to clean it up and hide it.
[36:45.600 --> 36:46.600] So.
[36:46.600 --> 36:47.600] Yeah.
[36:48.600 --> 36:52.360] Well, I did enjoy the Cheeto sharing too.
[36:52.360 --> 36:57.280] That was a very like a way to get them to keep like going back to each other.
[36:57.280 --> 36:59.400] I think it was really brilliant framing of a scene.
[36:59.400 --> 37:02.560] I thought this was one of the better, better framed scenes of the episode.
[37:02.560 --> 37:03.560] Yeah.
[37:03.560 --> 37:05.320] With the, through the little window and stuff.
[37:05.320 --> 37:06.320] Yeah.
[37:06.320 --> 37:07.320] The door.
[37:07.320 --> 37:09.200] He's not going to open the door, but he has this kind gesture anyway.
[37:09.200 --> 37:10.200] Yeah.
[37:10.200 --> 37:11.200] Very cool.
[37:11.200 --> 37:16.000] Navarro and Danvers talk, Danvers shares the evidence that Pete uncovered.
[37:16.000 --> 37:17.000] Yeah.
[37:17.000 --> 37:18.440] This scene was good.
[37:18.440 --> 37:23.600] I'm glad that the trooper was suspended because that's, that's nice justice for Leah.
[37:23.600 --> 37:28.880] I see you put here about sort of the mirroring here of, you know, Danvers looking after
[37:28.880 --> 37:31.360] Jules, Navarro looking after Leah.
[37:31.360 --> 37:32.360] Yeah.
[37:32.360 --> 37:36.200] I think that's really nice, especially later when Navarro lets Leah out, right?
[37:36.200 --> 37:37.200] Mm hmm.
[37:37.200 --> 37:38.200] She's like, all right, you know what?
[37:38.200 --> 37:40.160] I am going to, I am going to get in your shit.
[37:40.160 --> 37:42.120] I am going to let her out.
[37:42.120 --> 37:43.120] Yeah.
[37:43.120 --> 37:48.520] I think in this scene, she says to, to, Liz says to Navarro like, don't get into my shit.
[37:48.520 --> 37:49.920] Don't tell me what to do.
[37:49.920 --> 37:52.600] And later, Navarro like, I am going to tell you what to do.
[37:52.600 --> 37:55.360] I'm just going to do it.
[37:55.360 --> 38:03.440] And Liz is, is making it about her, not about Leah, not about Leah, trying to find herself,
[38:03.440 --> 38:11.240] trying to find community, Danvers just thinks, oh, she's just doing this to piss me off.
[38:11.240 --> 38:12.240] Right.
[38:12.240 --> 38:16.820] So this isn't about you, Liz, this is about a young woman who's trying to understand her
[38:16.820 --> 38:21.360] place in the world and in this community and find things that she cares about, realizing
[38:21.360 --> 38:22.680] that she cares about stuff.
[38:22.680 --> 38:23.680] Right.
[38:23.680 --> 38:25.400] And then you're going to be a jerk and thrower in jail like that.
[38:25.400 --> 38:26.400] She got beat.
[38:26.400 --> 38:29.960] Like, she was, she had a protest, yep.
[38:29.960 --> 38:32.240] You know, it wasn't illegal to be at the protest.
[38:32.240 --> 38:35.520] It was, you know, the fact that she got pulled out and, and, and beat on.
[38:35.520 --> 38:38.480] I don't know if she actually threw the thing that hit Navarro's helmet.
[38:38.480 --> 38:40.080] Oh, I think she did.
[38:40.080 --> 38:41.080] Okay.
[38:41.080 --> 38:43.640] And I think it's more interesting if she did, right?
[38:43.640 --> 38:44.640] Right.
[38:44.640 --> 38:45.640] Agreed.
[38:45.640 --> 38:46.640] Agreed.
[38:46.640 --> 38:50.040] Because Navarro's still like, you know what, kid hit me, but I owe Liz one, I'm going to
[38:50.040 --> 38:52.000] go grab her and I think this kid.
[38:52.000 --> 38:55.040] And she still has what they called noble intent, right?
[38:55.040 --> 39:01.560] So she believes in the best intent of Leah, even though Leah hit her.
[39:01.560 --> 39:02.560] Right.
[39:02.560 --> 39:03.560] Yeah.
[39:03.560 --> 39:04.560] Yeah.
[39:04.560 --> 39:09.480] That's interesting is that she did throw that bottle of anchor or whatever it was.
[39:09.480 --> 39:12.040] And then it ends up Navarro being the one to protect her.
[39:12.040 --> 39:13.040] Yeah.
[39:13.040 --> 39:14.040] That's a, that's a good turn.
[39:14.040 --> 39:15.040] Right.
[39:15.040 --> 39:18.960] So Danvers takes the meeting with Connolly and McKittrick.
[39:18.960 --> 39:20.280] Total.
[39:20.280 --> 39:23.720] She tries to avoid blame, but fails to read the room.
[39:23.720 --> 39:28.920] McKittrick shows a security video of Danvers and Navarro at the mine entrance.
[39:28.920 --> 39:36.040] McKittrick angles for information and Danvers flips over her cards, then digs a nice hole
[39:36.040 --> 39:38.280] for herself.
[39:38.280 --> 39:40.640] Connolly knows about Wheeler.
[39:40.640 --> 39:44.080] Sorry about your husband.
[39:44.080 --> 39:47.800] That was a rough line.
[39:47.800 --> 39:53.120] She really in the conference room at her, you know, McKittrick's work.
[39:53.120 --> 39:56.440] I mean, whatever you want to think about McKittrick, fine.
[39:56.440 --> 40:06.440] But man, that was a chief of police personally, personally insulting the intimate performance
[40:06.440 --> 40:11.160] of her husband was, that was funny as hell actually.
[40:11.160 --> 40:14.400] Yeah, that was funny.
[40:14.400 --> 40:20.680] But also Connolly going, are you fucking crazy, like to stop, stop, you know, poking the bear.
[40:20.680 --> 40:21.680] Yeah.
[40:21.680 --> 40:22.680] Just stop it.
[40:22.680 --> 40:23.680] You're shit.
[40:23.680 --> 40:25.200] She's shit with dealing with people, right?
[40:25.200 --> 40:27.080] She is shit with dealing with people.
[40:27.080 --> 40:32.240] And Connolly, I got to say Christopher Eccleston is really selling me on this like kind of douchey
[40:32.320 --> 40:36.280] cop who is just interested in his political ambitions.
[40:36.280 --> 40:37.280] Great actor.
[40:37.280 --> 40:39.160] He's doing a really great job.
[40:39.160 --> 40:46.960] And I like that later, McKittrick doesn't say Connolly's too principled or Connolly Connolly
[40:46.960 --> 40:48.440] wouldn't go along with this.
[40:48.440 --> 40:49.960] It's Connolly's weak.
[40:49.960 --> 40:50.960] Mm hmm.
[40:50.960 --> 40:51.960] Great.
[40:51.960 --> 40:52.960] Connolly's too political.
[40:52.960 --> 40:54.040] He's weak.
[40:54.040 --> 40:59.680] And that tells me that Connolly very well could know that I don't think he knows the specific,
[40:59.680 --> 41:03.280] but I think he knows that like McKittrick is hiding something about these murders.
[41:03.280 --> 41:04.480] Mm hmm.
[41:04.480 --> 41:07.480] And he's willing to look the other way to keep the peace.
[41:07.480 --> 41:12.560] If you were a better investigator, he'd follow up on some of this stuff and go where the
[41:12.560 --> 41:14.240] case led him.
[41:14.240 --> 41:21.200] But politically, if he's running for mayor, he doesn't want to piss off a big corporate
[41:21.200 --> 41:24.040] interest in his state.
[41:24.040 --> 41:28.560] And politically, if he's running for mayor, he probably doesn't want police corruption
[41:28.560 --> 41:29.560] coming out.
[41:29.560 --> 41:34.480] And that seems to be what is going on under his watch, not just with Hank, which he might
[41:34.480 --> 41:37.200] not know about, although he might know about it.
[41:37.200 --> 41:41.320] But with Wheeler, with the Wheeler thing, like, he doesn't want that coming out.
[41:41.320 --> 41:42.320] Exactly.
[41:42.320 --> 41:47.560] Police chiefs all over the country have had to resign when police brutality stories come
[41:47.560 --> 41:50.320] out, especially when they didn't know about it.
[41:50.320 --> 41:51.920] It's like you're supposed to know about it.
[41:51.920 --> 41:54.320] That's your job to know about this stuff.
[41:54.320 --> 41:58.320] Why was there no protocol in place to make sure that you did know about it when one
[41:58.320 --> 42:00.920] cop takes justice into their own hands?
[42:00.920 --> 42:01.920] Right.
[42:01.920 --> 42:02.920] Exactly.
[42:02.920 --> 42:12.120] Unlike Danvers here, who is a really good investigator, but a terrible negotiator, I
[42:12.120 --> 42:18.600] couldn't believe she just let Kitrick walk off with the file of all that information.
[42:18.600 --> 42:20.600] I mean, I'm sure you could reprint it.
[42:20.600 --> 42:23.720] Yeah, I think that's just on Pete's phone, right?
[42:23.720 --> 42:24.720] Right.
[42:24.720 --> 42:27.160] But still, it's kind of case file stuff.
[42:27.160 --> 42:31.040] You're just like, oh, here, here's all the things that I know about you.
[42:31.040 --> 42:32.600] Yeah, go ahead.
[42:32.600 --> 42:35.720] And now they can spin it and hide it and go back and scrub it.
[42:35.720 --> 42:37.560] Well, it's public info.
[42:37.560 --> 42:38.920] I think it's interesting.
[42:38.920 --> 42:42.640] But it's the question that Kitrick now knows that Danvers knows.
[42:42.640 --> 42:43.640] Yeah.
[42:43.640 --> 42:48.200] So they can go back and go, oh, we need to do a better job of scrubbing this stuff, right?
[42:48.200 --> 42:49.960] And make it disappear after the fact.
[42:49.960 --> 42:53.640] And then it's like, what files were you talking about?
[42:53.640 --> 42:54.640] I don't know.
[42:54.640 --> 42:55.640] We need another shellcorp in between.
[42:55.640 --> 42:56.640] Mm-hmm, exactly.
[42:56.640 --> 42:57.640] Yeah.
[42:57.640 --> 42:58.640] So.
[42:58.640 --> 42:59.640] Yeah.
[42:59.640 --> 43:04.000] The weather event as calls of death, that was a nice.
[43:04.000 --> 43:05.240] Yeah.
[43:05.240 --> 43:06.640] That was absurd.
[43:06.640 --> 43:07.640] That was absurd.
[43:07.640 --> 43:12.240] And everyone knew, like everyone in the room knew that they were full of shit.
[43:12.240 --> 43:13.240] Right.
[43:13.240 --> 43:14.240] Right.
[43:14.240 --> 43:16.840] But Kitrick was like, oh, thank God it was only a weather event.
[43:16.840 --> 43:19.040] And he's like, yeah, it's over.
[43:19.040 --> 43:21.880] He puts on the shut up and do what I say.
[43:21.880 --> 43:22.880] Right.
[43:22.880 --> 43:24.280] Let's just get through this.
[43:24.280 --> 43:25.280] Yeah.
[43:25.280 --> 43:27.480] But it really felt, it really felt honest.
[43:27.480 --> 43:33.280] It really felt like he knew who he was talking to, he knew that she didn't buy the lie.
[43:33.280 --> 43:38.280] So he's like, look, I know that you didn't buy the lie, but I don't buy your lie.
[43:38.280 --> 43:43.560] And we're both going to accept the lies for the sake of our reputations.
[43:43.560 --> 43:44.560] And moving on.
[43:44.560 --> 43:45.560] Yeah.
[43:45.560 --> 43:46.560] Mm-hmm.
[43:46.560 --> 43:47.560] Agreed.
[43:47.560 --> 43:48.560] Yeah.
[43:49.560 --> 43:56.640] That's got a, that's got a sting, you know, for a dog, an investigator like Danvers, that's
[43:56.640 --> 44:02.880] just, it's, it's willingly telling a lie, which is it actually makes her character all the
[44:02.880 --> 44:13.240] more interesting because when you put it against the Wheeler case, where they faked the suicide,
[44:13.240 --> 44:19.080] you know, justice, you know, this whole question of pursuit of justice and the law and upholding
[44:19.080 --> 44:23.960] the law, it just makes it, it's for a much richer context for the character.
[44:23.960 --> 44:24.960] Yeah.
[44:24.960 --> 44:25.960] I agree.
[44:25.960 --> 44:29.360] I still am not totally sure who killed Wheeler.
[44:29.360 --> 44:33.360] No, I hopefully will find out next episode for sure.
[44:33.360 --> 44:38.160] That's the tough part about episode five is like, okay, we're just waiting, like we've
[44:38.160 --> 44:40.440] got all these clues stacked up.
[44:40.440 --> 44:44.760] You know, we've got, we got one more episode to, to, we're just kind of hanging here until,
[44:44.760 --> 44:45.760] until we get to it.
[44:45.760 --> 44:49.520] Well, we aren't, but somebody is because we can watch it tonight.
[44:49.520 --> 44:50.520] Yes.
[44:50.520 --> 44:51.520] Definitely because we can watch it tonight.
[44:51.520 --> 44:52.520] Yeah.
[44:52.520 --> 44:53.520] I want to know who killed everybody.
[44:53.520 --> 44:54.520] Yeah.
[44:54.520 --> 44:59.000] Hank takes a clandestine meeting with McKittrick and they talk about the cave.
[44:59.000 --> 45:03.960] McKittrick gets Hank to follow up on heist.
[45:03.960 --> 45:10.400] So this is also where this whole episode, I don't have, I don't have, I don't have
[45:10.400 --> 45:14.680] any problem with any of the reveals in this episode.
[45:14.680 --> 45:19.920] It just felt like they were all packed into one episode.
[45:19.920 --> 45:24.400] And so it was just, it was sort of mundane reveal, mundane meaning non supernatural, right?
[45:24.400 --> 45:33.520] It was just sort of one, you know, normal political corruption reveal after another.
[45:33.520 --> 45:34.840] And it just seemed like a lot.
[45:34.840 --> 45:38.240] And everything was like right on the nose and right up front and right out there.
[45:38.240 --> 45:42.720] And I don't wonder if, if, I don't know why we're doing six episodes.
[45:42.720 --> 45:48.880] I'm kind of glad just because the show's been a lot of work, but it just felt like they
[45:48.880 --> 45:53.880] packed all the candy into episode five instead of, you know, spreading it out a little bit
[45:53.880 --> 45:54.880] more.
[45:54.880 --> 45:55.880] Yeah.
[45:55.880 --> 46:01.880] You know, one, one of my favorite creators of climaxes in media is Robert Jordan with
[46:01.880 --> 46:04.240] the Wheel of Time books.
[46:04.240 --> 46:09.400] And I've talked about how he sort of puts every, he lines up all the shots.
[46:09.400 --> 46:11.520] And then he takes it at the end.
[46:11.520 --> 46:14.240] But he doesn't do it in one chapter, right?
[46:14.240 --> 46:17.280] He does it over like the second half of the book.
[46:17.280 --> 46:21.420] He, you know, gets something hot, he puts it on simmer, gets another thing hot, he puts
[46:21.420 --> 46:26.520] it on simmer, get, he gets the stove full of things on simmer and he goes, watch this.
[46:26.520 --> 46:31.640] And then he takes out his blowtorch, it goes, and that's, that's what you need to do
[46:31.640 --> 46:32.640] with these.
[46:32.640 --> 46:34.520] That's, that's like the best way to do this.
[46:34.520 --> 46:35.520] And I think you're right.
[46:35.520 --> 46:38.160] I think it was a little bit too much like, aha.
[46:38.160 --> 46:39.560] And here's the twist.
[46:39.560 --> 46:40.560] And another twist.
[46:40.560 --> 46:42.200] Yeah.
[46:42.200 --> 46:43.720] And all non supernatural.
[46:43.720 --> 46:46.760] And so it was just whiplash from, from, from episode four.
[46:46.760 --> 46:47.760] Right.
[46:47.760 --> 46:48.760] Right.
[46:48.760 --> 46:49.760] Yeah.
[46:49.760 --> 46:50.760] Interesting.
[46:50.760 --> 46:54.880] I, I really liked how McKittrick treats Hank.
[46:54.880 --> 47:01.080] She's like, Hey, hey, hey, Henry, first name basis and soft with him.
[47:01.080 --> 47:07.960] But then Hank, he's not, he's, he's got some sort of animal cunning, but at the same time,
[47:07.960 --> 47:13.280] he's not also very smart in some ways because she basically had to explain to him how to
[47:13.280 --> 47:17.720] go about tagging heists and getting ahold of him.
[47:17.720 --> 47:23.400] And so Hank is this really interesting character where he's, he has this cunning, but he's
[47:23.400 --> 47:28.400] also a very weak man and obviously, you know, so weak that he spent a whole bunch of money
[47:28.400 --> 47:31.640] on a, on a phantom bride.
[47:31.640 --> 47:32.640] Did you send her money?
[47:32.640 --> 47:36.640] I'm telling you, 90 day fiance would do a great job with Hank.
[47:36.640 --> 47:39.160] I could see the talking head happening right now.
[47:39.160 --> 47:40.160] Right.
[47:40.160 --> 47:41.160] Yeah.
[47:41.160 --> 47:48.640] And you've got to feel that Hank's is desperate in a way, he's got nothing left since he got
[47:48.640 --> 47:52.400] left at the airport, you know, in that embarrassment.
[47:52.400 --> 47:54.400] But God, he does have stuff left.
[47:54.400 --> 47:55.400] He's just not seeing it.
[47:55.400 --> 47:56.400] Right.
[47:56.400 --> 48:02.640] He has a son, he has grandkids, he's got, you know, maybe his job isn't great, but like,
[48:02.640 --> 48:08.160] other than that, like just retire, man, go be a Johnny Cash impersonator and you will be
[48:08.160 --> 48:09.760] so happy, man.
[48:09.760 --> 48:15.520] You don't have to do murder for hire, which is by the way, he's got a, he's got a command
[48:15.520 --> 48:16.520] rank.
[48:16.520 --> 48:18.160] I'm pretty sure he's a captain.
[48:18.160 --> 48:22.640] He could just cruise the rest until he retires and it's twenty twenty four and I think he
[48:22.640 --> 48:23.640] owns a house.
[48:23.640 --> 48:24.640] Right.
[48:24.640 --> 48:26.120] That's pretty good.
[48:26.120 --> 48:30.560] He's got a piece of music and, and coast, you know, nobody's going to think any less
[48:30.560 --> 48:31.560] of you.
[48:31.560 --> 48:33.040] Everybody thinks less of you already.
[48:33.040 --> 48:34.040] Right.
[48:34.040 --> 48:35.040] Right.
[48:35.040 --> 48:36.040] Right.
[48:36.040 --> 48:40.680] Well, guys like that, they really need like constant validation and that's the problem.
[48:40.680 --> 48:44.880] And I, you know, I, I really like when she goes, no, I need you to repeat that I did
[48:44.880 --> 48:47.400] not ask you to kill anybody.
[48:47.400 --> 48:51.200] She's like, she's not, she's a pretty good operator.
[48:51.200 --> 48:53.480] I will say she's, she's not bad.
[48:53.480 --> 48:58.360] I'll be honest, I think later he gives himself up and just like, accept the accepts that he's
[48:58.360 --> 48:59.360] about to die.
[48:59.360 --> 49:00.360] Yeah.
[49:00.360 --> 49:01.360] Agree.
[49:01.360 --> 49:07.080] Because he knows if I live from this, she's going to take me the fuck down, whether legally
[49:07.080 --> 49:10.200] or hiring somebody to put me away.
[49:10.200 --> 49:11.200] Right.
[49:11.200 --> 49:12.840] But yeah, he was boxed into a corner.
[49:12.840 --> 49:13.840] I agree.
[49:13.840 --> 49:14.840] Yeah.
[49:14.840 --> 49:17.920] He, I think McKittrick would not have let him walk away unscathed from that.
[49:17.920 --> 49:18.920] Right.
[49:18.920 --> 49:22.880] Even, even if he tried to turn States witness or something, I don't think, I don't think
[49:22.880 --> 49:24.560] she was going to let him get away with it.
[49:24.560 --> 49:27.000] What other little things have gone on too, right?
[49:27.000 --> 49:32.360] Just moving of, of Annie K's body, but what other, other nefarious little things, little
[49:32.360 --> 49:37.920] things, you know, so well, on the topic of murder, a nice, light topic to leave it on.
[49:37.920 --> 49:38.920] Let's take a quick break.
[49:38.920 --> 49:42.000] When we get back, we'll resume the recap.
[49:53.880 --> 49:58.680] And we're back while doing her laundry.
[49:58.680 --> 50:01.080] Navarro has another vision.
[50:01.080 --> 50:07.760] Kavik brings the stone back and we learn that they were used as markers to warn hunters
[50:07.760 --> 50:13.040] about dangers in the ice Blair walks in.
[50:13.040 --> 50:19.040] So again, boom, boom, boom, reveal, reveal, suddenly we know what the spiral means and at
[50:19.040 --> 50:21.080] least in a mundane sense.
[50:21.080 --> 50:22.080] Yeah.
[50:23.080 --> 50:26.320] I'm just like, oh, I have no time to process this.
[50:26.320 --> 50:34.200] This is like, yeah, it was just very jarring to get yet another explanation for something
[50:34.200 --> 50:36.200] that is not supernatural.
[50:36.200 --> 50:37.200] Mm-hmm.
[50:37.200 --> 50:38.200] So.
[50:38.200 --> 50:39.200] Yeah.
[50:39.200 --> 50:40.200] But I'm okay with that.
[50:40.200 --> 50:43.480] I like that it's tied to like, why are we finding these around?
[50:43.480 --> 50:44.760] And I think it can be both, right?
[50:44.760 --> 50:50.400] I think there could be a supernatural thing there too while still having a mundane thing.
[50:50.400 --> 50:51.400] Right.
[50:52.120 --> 50:59.880] So it's the undercaves are called the Night Country, right?
[50:59.880 --> 51:04.760] So we've heard that several times now and it's sort of reinforced here.
[51:04.760 --> 51:05.760] I see.
[51:05.760 --> 51:06.760] Sorry.
[51:06.760 --> 51:11.360] I'm thinking a rest of development narrator, hey, that's the name of the show.
[51:11.360 --> 51:14.600] Yeah, there you go.
[51:14.600 --> 51:18.280] It's just a straight up call out.
[51:18.280 --> 51:25.000] Your interesting thing too is the spiral from season one and the spiral from season
[51:25.000 --> 51:27.560] four turn in opposite directions.
[51:27.560 --> 51:33.960] And I actually went and grabbed a screenshot from season one and a screenshot from season
[51:33.960 --> 51:35.480] four and put them together.
[51:35.480 --> 51:37.240] They are definitely opposites.
[51:37.240 --> 51:46.240] So it's, you know, does it involve some grain conspiracy thing with Louisiana?
[51:46.600 --> 51:47.840] I mean, we've got the tunnels.
[51:47.840 --> 51:49.560] We have rust coal.
[51:49.560 --> 51:51.200] How do what does the spiral do now?
[51:51.200 --> 51:54.320] Is that just going to be left ambiguous going forward?
[51:54.320 --> 51:55.320] I'm fine with that.
[51:55.320 --> 51:56.320] I'm fine.
[51:56.320 --> 51:58.640] If there's still some mystery, I think it's interesting.
[51:58.640 --> 52:02.840] But I mean, the whole season has been an inversion from season one, right?
[52:02.840 --> 52:08.880] This is a female ed story where season one was a very male centric thing.
[52:08.880 --> 52:12.920] You know, Louisiana, it's hot in the day time.
[52:13.280 --> 52:18.640] Should I make a Watergate joke about Woody Harrelson for Brian 8063 who attacked me and said he's
[52:18.640 --> 52:20.320] the one who laughs at it every week?
[52:20.320 --> 52:21.320] Yes, you can do it.
[52:21.320 --> 52:22.320] Watergate.
[52:22.320 --> 52:23.320] That's it.
[52:23.320 --> 52:24.320] That's the joke.
[52:24.320 --> 52:25.320] All right.
[52:25.320 --> 52:30.120] So yeah, I think it's interesting that the spirals are inverted.
[52:30.120 --> 52:33.120] I just don't know what it means for the story.
[52:33.120 --> 52:34.120] Yeah.
[52:34.120 --> 52:40.320] I guess there's probably a day country in the air in season one that we don't know about.
[52:40.320 --> 52:41.320] That's right.
[52:41.320 --> 52:42.320] No, I don't know.
[52:42.320 --> 52:46.160] It's it is kind of cool to repurpose something from season one that didn't mean a lot.
[52:46.160 --> 52:52.000] I do think that's that's an interesting thing to do and sort of a way to create a connective
[52:52.000 --> 52:55.680] tissue with the previous series that she wasn't in charge of.
[52:55.680 --> 53:03.120] And what's interesting to about season one is that all the metaphysical mystical stuff
[53:03.120 --> 53:08.000] was all surface sort of icing on the cake.
[53:08.000 --> 53:10.640] It was just surface dressing and it wasn't supposed to be deeper.
[53:10.640 --> 53:12.520] But that's what people loved about it.
[53:12.520 --> 53:21.600] So I don't even think Pizzolato realized what he did with season one in the sense that well,
[53:21.600 --> 53:26.560] true detective is just supposed to be about detectives and sort of this a little bit of
[53:26.560 --> 53:30.280] a story of good versus evil light versus dark kind of thing.
[53:30.280 --> 53:35.680] But the rust coal character and the visions and the spirals did something to take it to
[53:35.680 --> 53:37.600] a next level.
[53:37.600 --> 53:42.300] And that's what people really loved was the juxtaposition between the the mundane police
[53:42.300 --> 53:45.080] work and the supernatural.
[53:45.080 --> 53:49.680] And so I think, you know, Isalopaz is trying to walk that same spiral, right?
[53:49.680 --> 53:51.600] She's trying not to fall into the spiral here.
[53:51.600 --> 53:53.360] She's trying to stay on the path.
[53:53.360 --> 53:59.320] So Navarro confronts Danvers at the police station saying she knows how to get into the caves.
[53:59.320 --> 54:04.000] Danvers tries to convince Navarro the case is over because Connolly knows about Wheeler.
[54:04.000 --> 54:09.320] And Navarro insists on going and then puts the onus of carrying Annie Kay's memory on
[54:09.320 --> 54:10.320] Danvers.
[54:10.320 --> 54:13.320] Navarro, let's Leah out of lockup.
[54:13.320 --> 54:15.320] Fuckless, right?
[54:15.320 --> 54:16.320] Yeah.
[54:16.320 --> 54:24.240] Just like that was a, you know, a little bonding moment between Leah and Navarro there.
[54:24.240 --> 54:25.760] I thought that was cool.
[54:25.760 --> 54:26.760] So.
[54:26.760 --> 54:29.880] Yeah, I liked that a lot.
[54:29.880 --> 54:36.720] I think Danvers is doing the politically biased thing here and going, I'd rather not
[54:36.720 --> 54:39.280] be prosecuted for murder.
[54:39.280 --> 54:42.800] And Navarro should probably not be prosecuted for murder.
[54:42.800 --> 54:45.840] So let's not poke the bear anymore.
[54:45.840 --> 54:48.160] Navarro's like, where's the bear?
[54:48.160 --> 54:49.160] I want to poke it.
[54:49.160 --> 54:50.360] I want to poke it so bad.
[54:50.360 --> 54:52.360] I'm going to box it.
[54:52.360 --> 54:53.360] Yeah.
[54:53.360 --> 54:54.360] Yeah.
[54:54.360 --> 54:55.800] She know what she was doing.
[54:55.800 --> 54:56.800] Yeah.
[54:56.800 --> 54:57.800] Yeah.
[54:57.800 --> 55:05.280] And this idea that it goes back to episode one when they were at Solal in the hallway.
[55:05.280 --> 55:08.360] And Navarro says, you know, we carry them.
[55:08.360 --> 55:10.520] We owe them this sort of debt, right?
[55:10.520 --> 55:11.520] It's our job.
[55:11.520 --> 55:12.760] That's who we are.
[55:12.760 --> 55:20.200] We're supposed to care about these people in death more than maybe some people cared about
[55:20.200 --> 55:21.200] them in life.
[55:21.200 --> 55:25.280] But anyway, it's our job to remember them in death so that we can bring something called
[55:25.280 --> 55:27.920] justice forward.
[55:27.920 --> 55:32.200] And Navarro has been holding that for a long time.
[55:32.200 --> 55:39.860] And I think this along with a couple of other things end up radicalizing Liz and actually
[55:39.860 --> 55:46.440] pushing her over because in that hallway scene in Solal in episode one, Danvers was like,
[55:46.440 --> 55:48.160] no, we don't owe him shit.
[55:48.160 --> 55:50.640] Like, no, we're just, we're functionaries.
[55:50.640 --> 55:51.640] We're just doing a job.
[55:51.640 --> 55:54.080] We're just sweeping up afterwards, you know?
[55:54.080 --> 55:55.080] Right.
[55:55.080 --> 55:56.200] We knew was not true.
[55:56.200 --> 56:00.520] We knew that Liz cared somewhere deep down inside.
[56:00.520 --> 56:04.360] And so I think, you know, this is one of those things that a couple of things happened
[56:04.360 --> 56:11.520] in this episode that really push Danvers towards that sense of interjustice that she has.
[56:11.520 --> 56:13.760] Like, don't let this get shut down.
[56:13.760 --> 56:14.840] Take it.
[56:14.840 --> 56:17.880] See it through because this is important.
[56:17.880 --> 56:22.000] She really needed to push back into justice because she was getting a little bit, a little
[56:22.000 --> 56:23.400] bit sloppy over there.
[56:23.400 --> 56:24.400] Yeah.
[56:24.400 --> 56:25.400] A little sloppy.
[56:25.400 --> 56:27.240] A little compromised, one might say.
[56:27.240 --> 56:28.240] Yeah.
[56:28.240 --> 56:34.160] Hank talks to Peter and recounts a story of when Peter was nine and fell through the ice.
[56:34.160 --> 56:36.640] David, this was the weakest scene of the episode for me.
[56:36.640 --> 56:37.840] Oh, really?
[56:37.840 --> 56:40.000] I thought that this was so contrived.
[56:40.000 --> 56:45.120] Hey, son, you remember when you were nine and you fell through the ice.
[56:45.120 --> 56:46.280] Oh, you don't remember it.
[56:46.280 --> 56:47.280] Don't worry.
[56:47.280 --> 56:48.280] I dream about it.
[56:48.280 --> 56:50.000] I dream about it all the time.
[56:50.000 --> 56:53.360] It was very, it was, it was not good for me.
[56:53.360 --> 56:57.320] This was the one scene where I was like, yeah, you didn't nail the realistic dialogue for
[56:57.320 --> 56:58.320] me.
[56:58.320 --> 56:59.320] Got it.
[56:59.320 --> 57:00.320] Okay.
[57:00.320 --> 57:04.440] But you can see the trap that Lopez is setting for us here, right?
[57:04.440 --> 57:05.440] That's.
[57:05.440 --> 57:06.640] But set that throughout the episodes, right?
[57:06.640 --> 57:10.560] Like I understand they wanted him to have a troubled relationship with his dad.
[57:10.560 --> 57:13.840] I actually think it would have been more powerful if he had a better relationship with his dad
[57:13.840 --> 57:19.280] and like he didn't see him for who he was until the moment of he's going to shoot Danvers.
[57:19.280 --> 57:20.280] Right.
[57:20.280 --> 57:21.520] Right.
[57:21.520 --> 57:23.960] But the trap nonetheless is laid, right?
[57:23.960 --> 57:29.760] You know, we're, we're supposed to see Hank as we felt a little bit sorry for him last
[57:29.760 --> 57:30.760] episode.
[57:30.760 --> 57:31.760] Ah.
[57:31.760 --> 57:32.760] A little bit.
[57:32.760 --> 57:33.840] So people, you know, we could understand.
[57:33.840 --> 57:35.000] We can sympathize.
[57:35.000 --> 57:44.560] He's sending his crime cover up money to a young woman in a vulnerable population.
[57:44.560 --> 57:48.200] Probably the opposite of a young attractive woman on the other end of that keyboard.
[57:48.200 --> 57:49.200] Okay.
[57:49.200 --> 57:50.200] Well, he thinks.
[57:50.200 --> 57:51.200] He thinks though.
[57:51.200 --> 57:53.760] So might I add, what's 90 day fiance?
[57:53.760 --> 58:00.960] There are plenty of young women who would cat fit, not even catfish, but like beat Hank
[58:00.960 --> 58:05.240] in shoe setting, you know, somebody who looks like Hank into sending the money and then
[58:05.240 --> 58:06.240] just not show up.
[58:06.240 --> 58:10.280] But it's all this little, a little bit, a little bit of humanizing on Hank.
[58:10.280 --> 58:11.280] He plays the guitar.
[58:11.280 --> 58:12.280] Wow.
[58:12.280 --> 58:13.280] He's a really good musician.
[58:13.280 --> 58:19.880] Like what, what parent wouldn't go to that length to save their child, right?
[58:19.880 --> 58:26.920] You know, that, that, and then this, this heroism and this, this human side that, that
[58:26.920 --> 58:33.120] we've seen, because we can at least understand the emotion that he's feeling in that moment.
[58:33.120 --> 58:36.960] All serves to heighten the emotional tension.
[58:36.960 --> 58:41.600] So when we do get this at the end of the scene, it's a, it's a much bigger trigger.
[58:41.600 --> 58:46.480] There's a much bigger, there's a lot more velocity, a lot more emotional velocity in
[58:46.480 --> 58:47.480] the scene.
[58:47.480 --> 58:48.480] Yep.
[58:48.480 --> 58:49.480] Yep.
[58:49.480 --> 58:56.760] But warm shadow by think plays as Rose hammers into the ice so that Navarro can return jewels
[58:56.760 --> 59:01.800] to the sea and Rose lets us know that the big storm is coming in.
[59:01.800 --> 59:07.080] Navarro thinks she hears something and walks out onto the ice where she shouldn't and she's
[59:07.080 --> 59:09.960] rescued by Rose.
[59:09.960 --> 59:13.880] So this is again, the show rhyming here, right?
[59:13.880 --> 59:20.760] We have a scene of Hank chipping into the ice and then we have Rose doing the same thing.
[59:20.760 --> 59:25.000] So just these little, little parallels, you know, putting, you know, somebody under that,
[59:25.000 --> 59:26.640] you know, Peter died.
[59:26.640 --> 59:30.960] He went down under the ice and then he was pulled back out.
[59:30.960 --> 59:36.440] You know, here's Jules, you know, who's not with us anymore going back in.
[59:36.440 --> 59:42.720] So just all these rhyming couplets that the show has going on and it reinforces the danger
[59:42.720 --> 59:46.320] of the ice right before Navarro falls in.
[59:46.320 --> 59:48.880] Ooh, good call.
[59:48.880 --> 59:49.880] Absolutely.
[59:49.880 --> 59:50.880] Absolutely.
[59:50.880 --> 59:52.800] You can't trust the ice.
[59:52.800 --> 59:57.560] Yeah, that's actually, that's, yeah, I can totally see that because I think, again, this
[59:57.560 --> 01:00:04.040] is what Navarro's, I'm sorry, Isalopez is doing is setting all these little things out
[01:00:04] so that later on she can trigger them, all right, little, little pyrotechnics to go off
[01:00:08] for us as we, as we go through.
[01:00:10] Yep.
[01:00:11] Yeah, really beautiful scene though, two of them in the dark ice and the dark sky and
[01:00:15] the ice and again, just the craft and care that has gone, it's got to be hard to shoot
[01:00:21] in those environments and then to make the look, have it consistently look the way that
[01:00:25] it's done is a really expert job.
[01:00:28] I'd be really impressed.
[01:00:30] Yeah.
[01:00:31] And Rose who's always been comical collected is like, what are you doing?
[01:00:35] Yes, exactly.
[01:00:36] I really like that.
[01:00:37] Just anyone would have freaked out by that.
[01:00:39] Yeah.
[01:00:40] She was, yeah, I was like calling you like, hey, you know, yeah, at least she checked
[01:00:45] on her and didn't just, oh, you want me to say, nope.
[01:00:47] All right, bye.
[01:00:48] Bye.
[01:00:49] Put my headphones on rocking out on the way back, right, for sure.
[01:00:54] So this putting jewels back into the sea, again, it's not a one-to-one with the Sedna
[01:01:02] myth, but it's very much speaks to that and just a reminder of the Sedna story.
[01:01:09] It's a great community in the Arctic, tell the story a little bit differently.
[01:01:14] The upshot is, is that a young girl, there's a conflict with her father about various things.
[01:01:24] He cuts her fingers off like he tries to drown her.
[01:01:27] She holds on to the boat.
[01:01:28] He cuts her fingers off.
[01:01:30] She goes down.
[01:01:31] Her fingers become the sea creatures, the walruses, the seals, all of the things that
[01:01:37] people need to survive up there.
[01:01:39] And then she becomes sort of a goddess of the underworld who is a little bit vengeful and
[01:01:45] has to be appeased on a regular basis.
[01:01:47] And so hunters will.
[01:01:48] As old gods often are.
[01:01:50] Yes, exactly.
[01:01:51] And so the hunters would, you know, have to make sacrifices in the shaman would have
[01:01:55] to comb her hair and do these various rituals to keep the animals coming because, you know,
[01:02:02] they're subsistence hunting.
[01:02:03] So they need to make sure that they can track the wildlife and if the wildlife doesn't
[01:02:08] column if Sedna doesn't send the wildlife, then, you know, it gets rough for the people.
[01:02:13] So this idea of pouring Leah's sorry, Jules's ashes back into the sea, again, just echoes
[01:02:20] within that overall mythology.
[01:02:22] I really like the Sedna myth.
[01:02:23] I hope that that like directly comes up at some point in the finale, which is why I wanted
[01:02:27] to call out the main, the official podcast, because they beautifully segue it in without
[01:02:33] it seeming like if you haven't done any research, if you're just sort of, you know, la, la,
[01:02:37] listening along, oh, Sedna, that's a, that's a really interesting thing where the Reddit
[01:02:43] sleuths and all of our, you know, the cottage industry of podcasters, we've been on the Sedna
[01:02:48] myth from very early on.
[01:02:52] And so listening to this podcast, the official podcast where they're like, Oh, dot it on
[01:02:56] mythology.
[01:02:57] And it's very important to our culture and our society.
[01:02:59] It's how we survive.
[01:03:00] It's how we transmit information from generation to a generation, but then those mythologies also
[01:03:06] live within us.
[01:03:07] And that's how we see and feel the world, how we connect to the world.
[01:03:11] And they just drop the Sedna thing and they're really nicely.
[01:03:14] Oh, and this one example, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, it's like, Oh, okay, uh huh.
[01:03:18] Here we go.
[01:03:19] They're telegraphing.
[01:03:20] Yeah.
[01:03:21] Yeah.
[01:03:22] So that's fine.
[01:03:24] You know, here we go, click, click, you know, start the, the, the dramatic tension knob
[01:03:29] clicking up, right?
[01:03:30] Yeah.
[01:03:31] Oh, we got to have a big storm, big, big plot swing, big, big drama for the end of this
[01:03:35] show.
[01:03:36] Well, I think I said last episode that they are really trying to ramp up the pressure on
[01:03:41] all the characters individually.
[01:03:43] You know, you have Peter's marriage falling apart.
[01:03:46] Hank is, is in trouble with all his stuff with the bride not coming.
[01:03:51] And you know, his son's marriage falling apart.
[01:03:55] And now this whole thing of go murder somebody.
[01:03:57] Right.
[01:03:58] Uh, yeah.
[01:03:59] And then you have Navarro, her sister dying, uh, the protest stuff is really rough.
[01:04:05] Uh, Liz has her, the stuff with Leah, she has the Wheeler case.
[01:04:10] There's a ton of stress just ramping up on everybody.
[01:04:14] Totally.
[01:04:15] And, uh, yeah, I think that they just wanted everyone to be in a really vulnerable spot
[01:04:19] for the finale.
[01:04:20] And so the weather says, all right, you know how you're all really emotionally upset?
[01:04:23] We're going to make you physically struggling too.
[01:04:26] That's right.
[01:04:27] Yeah.
[01:04:28] Maybe somebody else will die in a weather event.
[01:04:30] Throwing a big, you know, circumstance that just throw that, that throws everything else
[01:04:35] into, uh, into chaos.
[01:04:37] Yep.
[01:04:38] Yep.
[01:04:39] Danvers takes a chance and tries to reconcile with Leah.
[01:04:42] They talk and Leah tells Liz that she has not given up on her.
[01:04:46] Liz is followed by Hank as she leaves Kayla's.
[01:04:50] Not a lot to cover here.
[01:04:52] I think the, again, the dialogue is very real and very grounded.
[01:05:00] The one line that did throw me a little bit was the, I haven't given up on you.
[01:05:06] I didn't quite, it didn't quite resonate for me.
[01:05:08] I don't know.
[01:05:09] Maybe it resonates.
[01:05:10] Maybe it's a me thing.
[01:05:11] I don't know if it resonates for other people.
[01:05:13] I get what Leah is saying there.
[01:05:15] I understand that look, Liz, I'm, I'm pissed at you and I'm going to spend some time away
[01:05:20] and, and try to get my head right.
[01:05:24] But that doesn't mean that I don't want us to not have a relationship, like it's not over
[01:05:28] over.
[01:05:29] Um, so I get that that was the sentiment.
[01:05:31] It was just a strange way of, of phrasing it.
[01:05:33] I don't know if it landed for you at all.
[01:05:35] No.
[01:05:36] Yeah.
[01:05:37] It was a little weird.
[01:05:38] It just felt like whiplash after her being incredibly, you know, fucking pigs, like the
[01:05:42] investment, um, which like, you know, I get why she's saying that too.
[01:05:46] That felt more natural.
[01:05:47] Right.
[01:05:48] See, we can listen to cursing people who were honest about foundation.
[01:05:52] That felt more natural.
[01:05:53] They did.
[01:05:54] Very, very normal.
[01:05:55] Uh, I guess so teal, okay, no, stop it, stop it.
[01:06:00] I'll tell you why.
[01:06:01] I'm my way to work today.
[01:06:02] I put on the, the ringer podcast for true detective episode four and, you know, I love
[01:06:09] the ringer.
[01:06:10] They're great people.
[01:06:11] They, you know, they do good work.
[01:06:12] I put it on and I'm five minutes in.
[01:06:14] And I think I've heard the word till 200 fucking times and I just, I don't ever want to hear
[01:06:19] that word again.
[01:06:20] I don't care about the theory.
[01:06:22] I'm sorry.
[01:06:23] I'm letting it go.
[01:06:24] All right.
[01:06:26] We are not doing teal watch 2024.
[01:06:28] No teal watch.
[01:06:29] Go to the ringer for that.
[01:06:31] You got plenty of it.
[01:06:33] Big scene here.
[01:06:34] Is visits the cemetery and sees the caskets of children who can't be buried because the
[01:06:40] ground is too frozen.
[01:06:42] Seeing the caskets radicalizes her and she removes some heroin from the evidence locker.
[01:06:47] She confronts Hank and deduces that he told Connolly about Wheeler.
[01:06:52] She then confronts Peter who learns the ugly truth about his father.
[01:06:56] He also learns about the ugly difference between law and justice as he sure locks Danvers.
[01:07:02] Yeah.
[01:07:03] This is a really big scene, really, you know, that he has figured out the Wheeler case.
[01:07:14] You know, he's too, he's too, he's a good investigator, but he's not wise enough to go, oh, wait a minute.
[01:07:25] Maybe I shouldn't be digging into this any deeper.
[01:07:28] You know, maybe this is going to be information that I don't want to know.
[01:07:32] He can't help himself.
[01:07:33] Right.
[01:07:34] He just is.
[01:07:35] You don't know when to stop asking questions.
[01:07:36] You know, it's funny because Danvers all times be like, ask a question like really encourages
[01:07:40] everybody.
[01:07:41] She's like, fuck, I taught this kid too well.
[01:07:43] I taught him too well.
[01:07:44] My Watson is surpassing me now completely, completely, great power comes the show.
[01:07:50] Great responsibility.
[01:07:51] I'm coming on the MCU podcast to talk about that.
[01:07:56] This whole scene too with Finn Bennett, who is the actor playing Peter, was he really delivered
[01:08:05] a really nice performance.
[01:08:08] At first he's like, hey, boss, and she's, you know, get in here.
[01:08:13] And then he's like, oh, damn, I got, I got taken advantage of by my dad.
[01:08:21] Now I'm learning the ugly truth about the two people I look up to the most, Danvers
[01:08:26] and Navarro.
[01:08:28] And then, you know, he has to deal with his dad and actually, you know, tell him to,
[01:08:35] you know, piss off.
[01:08:36] It was a really well delivered scene.
[01:08:40] He once felt like a kid, like a young, young boy who's been, you know, hurt.
[01:08:48] But at the same time, he knows in his heart what the answer to the Wheeler case is.
[01:08:55] And when he finally gets around to asking the right question about, you know, did you
[01:09:00] know what Wheeler was left handed?
[01:09:03] Oh, it was so, it was just so well set up, you know, you know, oh, how many times did you
[01:09:12] go there?
[01:09:13] Oh, there's all these mundane questions.
[01:09:14] And she's just like, dude, cut the bullshit and get to the real question.
[01:09:18] You know the real question.
[01:09:19] You already know the real question.
[01:09:21] Just say it.
[01:09:22] And for him to then come forward with that was, ah, it was really good.
[01:09:26] It was a really good scene.
[01:09:28] Yeah.
[01:09:29] The left handed thing I really liked.
[01:09:30] I really liked how she messed up the, the murder suicide staging.
[01:09:35] Right.
[01:09:36] Yeah.
[01:09:37] He's such good murder police.
[01:09:38] He would be, he's, he's such a good investigator.
[01:09:42] He's very talented.
[01:09:43] And because Danvers was the lead investigator on it, and she's the good one.
[01:09:47] If she says it was a murder suicide, then it was a murder suicide.
[01:09:50] Exactly.
[01:09:51] Exactly.
[01:09:52] And, and why does Hank have flood, you know, the files from the flood?
[01:10:01] Well, yeah, he's, he's covering up some stuff on his, his own account, but who flooded
[01:10:07] the files?
[01:10:08] You know, that's a good question.
[01:10:11] I didn't think about that.
[01:10:12] Yeah.
[01:10:14] Cause Peter says on all the other files, the ballistics and the forensics all got lost
[01:10:19] in the flood.
[01:10:21] Mm.
[01:10:22] So fun.
[01:10:23] Yeah.
[01:10:24] Yeah.
[01:10:25] Your heroes are not, are not so worthy of your devotion.
[01:10:29] Now are they Peter?
[01:10:31] But Peter gets some blood on his hands by the end of the episode.
[01:10:34] So he's like, yeah, I'll just follow in mother Danvers footsteps on Mrs. Robinson's footsteps.
[01:10:41] And that he, yeah, literally, like he has to fake a murder suicide, which is what Navarro
[01:10:47] and Danvers said.
[01:10:48] It's really great rhyming couplet stuff again, just, you know, playing and twisting and
[01:10:53] inverting these storylines.
[01:10:55] It's, it's, even if she didn't do the supernatural thing, even she, if she just, if Lopez just
[01:11:00] did a straight cop drama, it would be, I'd really be into that story because she, she does.
[01:11:06] It's not so much how clever the twists are.
[01:11:09] It's how clever she builds the character studies of the characters and how well she moves them
[01:11:16] through their paces.
[01:11:17] Yeah.
[01:11:18] It was a very good job.
[01:11:20] It was a very, very good scene overall.
[01:11:23] It was a really nice way to turn, ask the question on its head because I thought it was getting
[01:11:29] to be a little bit tired at certain points, but I think this was a really great way to
[01:11:33] use it.
[01:11:34] I hope it's pretty much done now.
[01:11:35] I think that was the climax of it.
[01:11:38] You can't get better than that.
[01:11:39] You can't get better than that.
[01:11:41] Right.
[01:11:42] Navarro goes to Kavic's, Peter checks himself into Liz's shack and heist gets high in Liz's
[01:11:49] bathroom while Navarro has a moment.
[01:11:54] This is really just kind of a bridge scene, a lovely moment with Evangeline and Kavic
[01:12:00] and him, you know, saying like, come back, you know, I'm here, you know, like I, I, whatever,
[01:12:08] I know you have to go do what you've got to do.
[01:12:11] I just want you to come back.
[01:12:13] I want you to survive.
[01:12:14] Don't make a mess.
[01:12:15] Just really lovely.
[01:12:16] It was lovely.
[01:12:17] And it was really great to see that, you know, he can still be a man and be very male in
[01:12:26] a lot of his, his ways of being, but yet he doesn't have to be the alpha in the relationship
[01:12:32] with her.
[01:12:33] They don't have, it doesn't have to follow that thing.
[01:12:36] She has a career and a path that she needs to follow and he's okay with that.
[01:12:41] And I really like it.
[01:12:42] Yeah.
[01:12:43] Coming out of Fargo, I think, I think it's a good trope we're starting to subvert of the
[01:12:49] man has to be mainly and yeah, and take control.
[01:12:53] Well, yeah.
[01:12:54] And Fargo completely turned that story, you know, that, that completely flipped that one
[01:12:59] over.
[01:13:00] Yeah.
[01:13:01] Just one really quick thing about when Navarro has the moment on the road of the child pointing
[01:13:05] at her, the one ghost that we didn't see was Julia.
[01:13:11] We saw her mother.
[01:13:13] We saw the woman who was murdered by Wheeler and we saw Lund, but we did not see Julia as
[01:13:21] one of those ghosts.
[01:13:22] So they, that I think is a conscious choice.
[01:13:25] I don't know why, but it almost felt like, and I could be wrong on this, but it almost
[01:13:31] felt like Navarro was starting to make a little piece with having visions and not
[01:13:38] being pulled by it in a self-destructive way that she's finding some equilibrium in some
[01:13:46] way.
[01:13:47] I don't know.
[01:13:48] I wonder if in her mind, she's a little bit like, well, if I go down now, it's not me
[01:13:52] and Julia going down.
[01:13:54] She's gone.
[01:13:55] Mm hmm.
[01:13:56] Interesting.
[01:13:57] Now, Navarro is allowed to be the vulnerable one.
[01:14:00] Right.
[01:14:01] And she's not, she doesn't have somebody depending on her.
[01:14:05] She had an over, she had an outsized sense of big sisterdom, right?
[01:14:09] Like I gotta make sure, I gotta be around to make sure that, yeah, like you're saying,
[01:14:12] I gotta be around to make sure that you're okay, but you're not here anymore.
[01:14:15] So I can just go and be and do.
[01:14:17] I think if Navarro solves the anti-KK, she will feel at peace.
[01:14:21] Yeah.
[01:14:22] Yep.
[01:14:23] Over.
[01:14:24] Cool.
[01:14:26] The big climax of the episode, we got the Spider-Man pointing at each other, seeing Hank
[01:14:32] shoots heist and Peter shoots Hank, then Navarro shows up with like a, boop, boop, boop, boop,
[01:14:38] boop, boop, like a Seinfeld entrance.
[01:14:41] She does a Kramer entrance slides in, except when the door hits a heist on the body on the
[01:14:47] floor.
[01:14:48] Oh man.
[01:14:49] Just get the bass in there.
[01:14:53] She, they could have ended, like if we had a couple more episodes, if this was like an
[01:14:58] eight or a ten, she totally could have ended this episode on the, with the camera shot of
[01:15:06] Liz comforting Peter on the ground and just, because there is, you know, it pulls back.
[01:15:14] It does that same technique.
[01:15:15] She uses this technique a lot where the camera is pulling back, it's zooming backwards and
[01:15:21] you know, it's down a hall in the lighthouse or down the hall in, in the hospital, where
[01:15:27] the, the people at the center of the frame are static and we're the ones that are moving
[01:15:32] further and further and further away and they do that in this scene.
[01:15:37] So I, I really noticed it is, it's a real regular technique that Lopez is, is using.
[01:15:43] But man, if they had just cut that scene right there and left us with some eerie music and some
[01:15:48] scenes of Ennis, that would have been a hell of a hang, a cliffhanger for an episode.
[01:15:54] Yeah.
[01:15:55] I don't think they actually needed to go as far as like being like, all right, you clean
[01:15:57] up.
[01:15:58] Right.
[01:15:59] But I'll tell you one thing that would have made the scene better for me.
[01:16:07] Just Navarro says of, Hey, what's going on everyone?
[01:16:09] Oh, hit the door.
[01:16:13] Oh, how, how fast were you scrambling to try to put it in the sound, pretty fast and loaded
[01:16:19] into the sound board.
[01:16:21] Yeah.
[01:16:22] Yeah.
[01:16:23] A little levity to, to counterbalance the seriousness of, of Peter having to shoot his
[01:16:29] dad in the head.
[01:16:30] I mean, Jesus.
[01:16:31] Yeah.
[01:16:32] I got to say Finn really sold it.
[01:16:35] I bought that he was devastated, but he was like, this is my responsibility.
[01:16:39] I shot him.
[01:16:40] I'm going to clean it up.
[01:16:41] Yeah.
[01:16:43] And he sees good, they say to him.
[01:16:47] And he knows how to, he knows what to do, right?
[01:16:49] He's a really good investigator.
[01:16:51] So he's going to know, Oh, yeah, the drop of blood will have gone way up over there.
[01:16:56] And yeah, it was the logical choice given the situation that it was Danvers and Navarro,
[01:17:04] were are the ones that have to go.
[01:17:06] And so he made the right call in through it.
[01:17:10] Were you completely, I was left stunned at the end of this thing.
[01:17:16] I was just completely shocked.
[01:17:17] I don't know.
[01:17:18] How did you feel?
[01:17:21] I was not expecting it, but I wasn't shocked either.
[01:17:26] Okay.
[01:17:27] I think that I was just like, yeah, that makes sense when like I just would not have believed
[01:17:33] that Peter sided with his dad after that.
[01:17:36] And I think part of that is that the whole season.
[01:17:40] We've seen him resenting his dad and really down on his dad.
[01:17:44] And so even, you know, you give me one scene where they're having a heart to heart.
[01:17:48] That doesn't undo the whole season.
[01:17:49] So I think if they wanted me to be shocked by that, they needed to do a better job of having
[01:17:54] more heart to hearts or more little nice things from Hank to Peter.
[01:17:59] Right.
[01:18:00] I don't think I was as much shocked that Peter made the decision to do it.
[01:18:05] I just meant the whole thing.
[01:18:07] Okay.
[01:18:08] Okay.
[01:18:09] So I'm expecting the entire scenario of Hank gunning down heist and then going to shoot
[01:18:17] Danvers and then Peter, you know, having to save Liz.
[01:18:21] Like I never in a million years would have predicted this set of circumstances to arise.
[01:18:28] This is not anywhere on my radar.
[01:18:31] I did think that him getting kicked out of the house felt very natural from a plot perspective.
[01:18:38] Totally.
[01:18:39] So, like, it was really great because it was serving the character of, you know, putting
[01:18:44] pressure on Hank, but not, but it also got him in a place where the plot worked where
[01:18:49] he could come in with the gun and it wasn't we do that.
[01:18:54] You want me to keep doing.
[01:18:55] No, it's okay.
[01:18:56] You don't have to.
[01:18:58] All right.
[01:18:59] You can stop your Google searching for sound effects.
[01:19:01] It was and I'm done.
[01:19:02] I'm done.
[01:19:03] I just got my one.
[01:19:04] All right.
[01:19:05] Yeah.
[01:19:06] I thought it was crazy.
[01:19:07] I thought it was crazy.
[01:19:08] It was shocked.
[01:19:09] Uh, Navarro immediately being like, this kid's fucked if we called anybody about this.
[01:19:16] I think that that's absolutely right.
[01:19:19] Mm hmm.
[01:19:21] Especially it's in Danvers house when she's already on thin ice.
[01:19:24] She's going down.
[01:19:25] Everybody's going down.
[01:19:26] Who's there?
[01:19:27] Mm hmm.
[01:19:28] But I really love the irony and the rhyming and the symmetry of Hank got into this mess
[01:19:33] by moving a body and his body's about to be moved.
[01:19:37] Right.
[01:19:38] Exactly.
[01:19:39] Exactly.
[01:19:40] She keeps doing this.
[01:19:42] All these little mirrors and these little inversions and little rhyming couplets.
[01:19:45] It's really good.
[01:19:47] Although I don't think, okay.
[01:19:49] So assuming that Connolly isn't a weak spined person and was, you know, a competent and
[01:19:56] goodly leader.
[01:19:58] Hank, or what Peter did.
[01:20:02] I don't think he's not in trouble.
[01:20:04] Liz is in trouble.
[01:20:05] She has a...
[01:20:06] Well, she did give a guy heroin and bring him back to her house instead of, yeah.
[01:20:10] Exactly.
[01:20:11] I agree with that if you believe all the actions of everybody, all the, the story of everybody.
[01:20:17] Right.
[01:20:18] I think the...
[01:20:19] Right.
[01:20:20] It looks terrible.
[01:20:21] Right.
[01:20:22] But that's what I'm saying is like, this goes on the news.
[01:20:23] You know, you get the death of a cop, you get the death of a, a, a drug addict who, who was
[01:20:29] in the bathroom shooting up of the sheriff.
[01:20:32] Well, you...
[01:20:33] Yeah.
[01:20:34] This is a terrible, terrible situation for an optic, from an optics perspective and Ted
[01:20:40] running for mayor.
[01:20:41] My God.
[01:20:42] Right.
[01:20:43] Right.
[01:20:44] It's a...
[01:20:45] Terrible.
[01:20:46] And, and Navarro was absolutely right.
[01:20:49] This is not something that you call anybody else for.
[01:20:52] Right.
[01:20:53] They're all experienced and competent investigators and can lie and cover it up really good.
[01:21:00] I mean, nobody figured out the Wheeler case until the protege of the person who did it
[01:21:05] figured it out.
[01:21:06] Right.
[01:21:07] Right.
[01:21:08] Right.
[01:21:09] So, I mean, Hank, Hank might have suspected something, but he could never prove it until
[01:21:14] he could get his hands on, on Peter's laptop.
[01:21:17] Right.
[01:21:18] I think, I think Hank was more like, I know how cocky that guy is.
[01:21:22] He wouldn't have killed himself.
[01:21:23] Mm-hmm.
[01:21:24] I think that's what, that's what Hank would have said.
[01:21:26] Right.
[01:21:27] But that's not evidence, right?
[01:21:28] That's just conjecture.
[01:21:29] You know, and going back to your point before, all of the plot mechanics of getting Peter out
[01:21:36] of the house and then Hank being able to use all this stuff and then him being in the
[01:21:40] shack, it never felt, I never felt the hand of the writer.
[01:21:44] I never felt the machinery of the plot.
[01:21:47] Oh, well, we got to get this person in this position.
[01:21:49] I would say, except the scene where they have the heart to heart.
[01:21:51] But anyway, anyway, that's the one time I felt the hand of the writer.
[01:21:54] Yeah.
[01:21:55] Well, but, but, but that was in the writing, not necessarily the mechanics of getting, you
[01:22:00] know, character A into position B, right?
[01:22:02] Yeah.
[01:22:03] I just kind of don't buy the whole heart to heart happening at all.
[01:22:06] That's fine.
[01:22:07] That's fine.
[01:22:08] I just don't think Hank's that person.
[01:22:09] I don't think he's sentimental.
[01:22:11] Mm.
[01:22:12] Well, I, I, again, I, it goes back to her trying to humanize him.
[01:22:16] So when this does happen, they had this one final touching moment where Hank remembers,
[01:22:22] you know, where, where we know that Hank had, remember something about his son and we can,
[01:22:27] we can empathize, especially his parents, you know, we can actually identify with him.
[01:22:32] So anyway, well, it was, yeah, I'm less mad at the episode, I think, even after talking
[01:22:40] about it now.
[01:22:41] One last thing I wanted to say is Hank knew he was going to die before Peter ever lifted
[01:22:48] the gun the second time, because he says, I think, I think it's before that I could be
[01:22:52] wrong.
[01:22:53] So if I'm wrong, that's fine.
[01:22:54] He says before that, you should know I didn't kill any K, I just moved the body.
[01:22:59] Right.
[01:23:00] Right.
[01:23:01] So he knew he was going to be gone and they were going to go after this anyway.
[01:23:06] Yeah, because, yeah, he sort of did the triangulation, Peter's still the moment I go to shoot Liz,
[01:23:14] yeah, I'm done for.
[01:23:16] Right.
[01:23:17] Yeah.
[01:23:18] He's like, I'm not going to kill my son.
[01:23:19] I, I think he thinks that, but even if, even if he could have morally in his head shot Peter,
[01:23:28] even if he could have worked his way up to do that, I don't think he gets a second shot
[01:23:31] in.
[01:23:32] So, yeah.
[01:23:33] And first hackles him before he can ever unload a second shot.
[01:23:36] So there's no way that he was getting both of them down.
[01:23:39] Right.
[01:23:40] Yeah.
[01:23:41] No, yeah.
[01:23:42] Yeah.
[01:23:43] I think you're right.
[01:23:44] I think you're right.
[01:23:45] And it's interesting that in that final moment Hank does offer that piece of information, that
[01:23:51] key piece of information, some, some last feeble attempt to feel good or clean his soul in
[01:24:02] some way.
[01:24:03] I think he got in too deep.
[01:24:04] I don't think he, I don't think he wanted to be corrupt.
[01:24:07] He just wanted to be in charge.
[01:24:08] He wanted to be chief.
[01:24:09] Yeah.
[01:24:10] Yeah.
[01:24:11] He wanted to be the big man.
[01:24:12] Interesting thing too, the way that John Hawks plays the character, whenever he comes
[01:24:16] into a scene, he kind of will, will take this heroic stance, sort of turn 90 degrees to
[01:24:22] the side, usually puts his hand on his gun, kind of in this like casual way, but yet still
[01:24:29] communicating, you know, alpha male dumb a little bit.
[01:24:35] He really does have an arrogant sensibility and Hawks plays that perfectly.
[01:24:42] And yeah, he just wanted to be the big man and that greed was his ultimate and undoing,
[01:24:48] right?
[01:24:49] Yeah.
[01:24:50] Yeah.
[01:24:51] Well, what a dark ending.
[01:24:53] I'm excited for the finale.
[01:24:55] I really am.
[01:24:56] I think it's going to be a great time.
[01:24:58] Look, John, it's, it's an hour and 30 minutes.
[01:25:00] We covered it in an episode in less than two hours.
[01:25:03] Yeah, but I'm looking at this feedback boy.
[01:25:05] Do we have some feedback to get through?
[01:25:07] So why don't we take one more quick break when we get back?
[01:25:10] We'll get into all that.
[01:25:11] And we're back.
[01:25:27] If people want to write in David, they can go to true detective at the lorehounds.com.
[01:25:33] They could also go to the website, the lorehounds.com head to the contact page.
[01:25:37] There's a contact form there.
[01:25:38] You can write in without having to type any emails or you can use the voice mail feature,
[01:25:43] which is always a fun time and not enough people do it.
[01:25:45] So go do it.
[01:25:46] Yeah.
[01:25:47] The Discord server is also open for live chatting.
[01:25:50] We have a live chat that goes on every time the episode airs.
[01:25:53] It's a lot of fun.
[01:25:54] People jump in.
[01:25:55] People are just like react live reacting.
[01:25:57] I think you mentioned that earlier in the podcast.
[01:26:00] And overall, if you want to send feedback through Discord to just tag us, say, hey, this
[01:26:05] is for the podcast, cool, good for us.
[01:26:08] Would you like to read some feedback, David?
[01:26:10] Sure.
[01:26:11] Maybe we could trade off here.
[01:26:12] Sure.
[01:26:13] That sounds good.
[01:26:14] First up is Jeff R who sent a message using the contact form, says, just found your true
[01:26:19] detective podcast and really enjoying episode four discussion.
[01:26:22] Well, thanks, Jeff.
[01:26:23] I'm glad you were able to find us.
[01:26:25] We've got a actually a lot of new folks around.
[01:26:28] So it's great.
[01:26:29] Welcome, everyone.
[01:26:30] We're glad you're here.
[01:26:31] We do more than just this.
[01:26:33] So hop on.
[01:26:34] Yeah.
[01:26:35] Like we said, hop on the Discord or dig through our archives.
[01:26:38] We've got a lot of fun projects on the go.
[01:26:41] Jeff R continues.
[01:26:42] I had to laugh at your comment about the appreciation of the tasteful nudity after being subjected
[01:26:47] to two episodes of male, corpsicle, naughty bits strategically poking out of the ice
[01:26:53] at us.
[01:26:54] Yeah.
[01:26:55] Pretty, pretty funny.
[01:26:57] But at least that was there for a reason, right?
[01:27:00] Is that they are naked because of something weird going on and because of something probably
[01:27:07] super natural going on.
[01:27:09] And so I, I, when I say tasteful, I mean like there for a reason.
[01:27:13] It's happening for a reason.
[01:27:15] It's not, it's not there to do the game of throwing thing, which is, well, we haven't
[01:27:21] had a sex scene in three episodes.
[01:27:23] Let's throw one in.
[01:27:24] Right.
[01:27:25] Right.
[01:27:26] Yeah.
[01:27:27] No, it's all been very, it's all been reasonable.
[01:27:30] Well, you, you, I think I picked the bone with I still don't think the Navarro.
[01:27:34] The initial one.
[01:27:35] Yeah.
[01:27:36] The initial section was necessary.
[01:27:38] Even the Danvers one, I was like, ah, I guess I see a little bit of it like established
[01:27:42] a thing with, with, uh, Connolly, but at the same time again, I don't see what I got out
[01:27:47] of seeing them that I couldn't have gotten out of them cleaning up, you know, right?
[01:27:52] Mm hmm.
[01:27:53] And before I was crazy.
[01:27:54] Right.
[01:27:55] I was crazy.
[01:27:56] Right.
[01:27:57] And you remember the first episode one, people were crazy, you know, having crazy conversations
[01:28:04] about like, you know, didn't Navarro take advantage of him and where, you know, where's
[01:28:08] the line in terms of, you know, unwanted sexual, like, you know, whatever, and, and people
[01:28:13] were arguing about Leah and, and Sherry and underage dating and all this stuff.
[01:28:18] And it's like, we're so far beyond that now.
[01:28:20] Yeah.
[01:28:21] It's hilarious.
[01:28:22] Yeah.
[01:28:23] All right.
[01:28:24] Jeff Arter is not really a concern in this show where we're focused on murder suicides
[01:28:27] now.
[01:28:28] Yeah.
[01:28:29] And I think that it's, it is interesting because that scene did spark a whole bunch of debate
[01:28:33] and then people have gotten over it.
[01:28:34] So, you know, maybe as a director, she was pushing something intentionally in that way
[01:28:40] and confronting us a little bit with it.
[01:28:42] And maybe distract us a little bit.
[01:28:44] Yeah.
[01:28:45] Outside of the story.
[01:28:46] So, um, Jeff Arter continues also, am I the only one who noticed that Ennis is basically
[01:28:54] a backwards is basically Sinner?
[01:28:56] Sorry if I missed that discussion.
[01:28:58] Actually, um, when continues, we'd love to hear more discussions of show names, still
[01:29:02] trying to work out the salal reference.
[01:29:04] I, I don't think anybody has mentioned, I think you're the first person, Jeff, to that
[01:29:08] I've seen that, that is, I mean, that Ennis is backwards.
[01:29:12] Yeah.
[01:29:13] Yeah.
[01:29:14] I, I, you need the R still, but I see you've put that in parentheses here.
[01:29:17] Yeah.
[01:29:18] For our enjoyment, I guess.
[01:29:21] But it's funny because Ennis is a name of towns around the world, like people name places
[01:29:26] and it's Texas.
[01:29:27] It's just not in Alaska.
[01:29:29] Yeah.
[01:29:30] When I was going down early on, I went down a, I wouldn't call it a rabbit hole, but I
[01:29:35] had a little, you know, a small tinfoil theory, which is that, uh, because there is an Ennis
[01:29:41] Texas and it's not far from Louisiana and then that would all tie back to season one and Rust
[01:29:47] Cole spent a lot of time in Texas before he went to Louisiana.
[01:29:50] So I thought that was some sort of thing.
[01:29:53] So yeah, I don't know.
[01:29:54] I don't know if she's going for the Sinner thing or the Texas thing, but yeah, nobody
[01:29:56] else has done the backwards.
[01:29:58] People have tried to play some of the sound effects backwards to hear, you know, if there's
[01:30:04] some voices in the, in the weird ghost speak stuff, but yeah, not this one.
[01:30:11] So long.
[01:30:12] I got a, I, I did a quick Google as we want to do, uh, Ennis is a name of Celtic origin.
[01:30:19] It's borrowed from Irish.
[01:30:20] Okay.
[01:30:21] It means island or one choice and it was originally a town in West Ireland.
[01:30:26] Okay.
[01:30:27] So it is, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know.
[01:30:31] I don't know.
[01:30:32] Maybe it is, maybe East Lopez did choose it because it was close to Sinner, but maybe
[01:30:39] not.
[01:30:40] We'll see.
[01:30:41] Yeah.
[01:30:42] Uh, if you want a salal reference, there's a great Reddit thread that goes into the whole
[01:30:50] thing of salal.
[01:30:51] There are some, uh, Hebrew connections.
[01:30:54] There is, um, uh, some Hebrew mysticism connections.
[01:30:57] There is, um, uh, short story connections in the, in the cosmic horror genre.
[01:31:03] Uh, and so if you search for salal, uh, meanings, I think on, on the Google is you'll, you'll
[01:31:09] find some stuff and there's a, there's one particular, you know, email me and I can email
[01:31:13] you link or, or, you know, we could post it in the discord if you, if you pop up there.
[01:31:17] So anyway, uh, Jeff, our concludes, keep up the great work.
[01:31:20] Look forward to your future shows.
[01:31:22] Thanks, Jeff.
[01:31:23] I'm glad you're, you found us and, um, I hope to hear from you again in the soon, you know,
[01:31:27] make sure you get in some, some feedback for us for the season wrap for sure.
[01:31:31] Welcome.
[01:31:32] Welcome.
[01:31:33] Mel Bradshaw wrote an email to truedetective at the lorehounds.com and said in a world full
[01:31:38] of instant gratification and predictability, this show is the one-eyed polar bear opposite.
[01:31:44] It scratches the itch on my curious brain.
[01:31:47] I love not knowing, but always wanting to find out it's a welcome change of scenery.
[01:31:52] Yeah.
[01:31:53] I like that.
[01:31:54] You know, it's no TikTok.
[01:31:55] That's very true.
[01:31:56] No, it's very.
[01:31:57] And these are solid one hour episodes.
[01:31:59] They are.
[01:32:00] Yeah.
[01:32:01] And, uh, I think they should have been like eight to 10, 45 minute episodes, TBH.
[01:32:07] Okay.
[01:32:08] But we can have that discussion on the season wrap, um, also what if the role of Stacy Chambers
[01:32:16] from episode one was played by Melissa McCarthy, game changer for sure.
[01:32:21] I could see it.
[01:32:23] Yeah.
[01:32:24] I always picture Melissa McCarthy as her character from bridesmaids.
[01:32:27] That's like her most iconic role for me.
[01:32:29] Mm.
[01:32:30] I think for me is the one where it was a spy one with, uh, who was that?
[01:32:36] Oh, I can't remember what I just remember.
[01:32:38] It was we were in New York.
[01:32:41] I had recently moved out to New York to be with my now wife and it was a summer day and
[01:32:46] it was just blistering hot and we went to the movies to escape the heat.
[01:32:50] And that's what we, we saw was that whenever Melissa McCarthy, uh, spy movie, no, I just
[01:32:55] think of the movie where they all get food poisoning.
[01:32:57] She decides to poop in the sink.
[01:33:00] That is not an image that I needed.
[01:33:02] Well, you've already had corpsicles and yes, this is this is pointy bits, this is less
[01:33:10] bad by a standard.
[01:33:12] All right.
[01:33:13] Love listening.
[01:33:14] That's what it was.
[01:33:15] Keep it up.
[01:33:16] That's the boomer.
[01:33:17] So I still haven't found that damn detective notebook on Patreon.
[01:33:20] Alas, I will survive.
[01:33:22] That's, that's a good note.
[01:33:23] Um, I, David, I know you hooked up Mel with the, uh, Mel is a patron detectives notebook.
[01:33:29] If you are a patron and you can't find it for some reason, just send us a DM.
[01:33:32] We'll, we'll make sure you have access to it.
[01:33:33] All right.
[01:33:34] Next up is Leah Z by email, Leah says, okay, first of all, I really enjoyed the actual in-depth
[01:33:41] coverage of the show and the thoughtful way you unpack every episode you cover.
[01:33:45] Oh, well, thank you.
[01:33:46] That's what we, we aim to do.
[01:33:48] We, and yeah, we don't, even if we're not personally enjoying things, we do try to be
[01:33:53] level headed about it, like, I guess a little bit and, and actually have some fun digging
[01:33:57] into the details.
[01:33:58] Uh, Leah continues, however, I had to write in to say, thank you for the corn kid song
[01:34:04] reference in your part for coverage, literally started singing the rest of the song and then
[01:34:10] laughed out loud when you said someone got a laugh out of it on their drive to work.
[01:34:14] It was me.
[01:34:15] I'm that person.
[01:34:16] That's great.
[01:34:17] Anyway, thanks for the laugh and I hope we all have something that we love as much as
[01:34:20] that kid loves his corn.
[01:34:22] For me.
[01:34:23] What do you like about corn?
[01:34:26] It's cold.
[01:34:27] It's cold.
[01:34:28] It's cold.
[01:34:29] It's cold.
[01:34:30] It's cold.
[01:34:31] It's cold.
[01:34:32] So I had not.
[01:34:33] I'm finishing the song.
[01:34:34] Oh, no, no, we can't do it.
[01:34:35] It's cold.
[01:34:36] It's cold.
[01:34:37] So I had not.
[01:34:38] I can tell you.
[01:34:39] I'm finishing the song.
[01:34:40] 25 seconds.
[01:34:42] I knew nothing about this and so when Leah sent in their email, I, okay, I was like, all
[01:34:52] right, I'm going to find out what this corn kid thing is.
[01:34:54] That kid is adorable.
[01:34:56] It's very funny.
[01:34:57] He's so cute.
[01:34:59] Oh my goodness.
[01:35:01] He just loves his corn.
[01:35:02] He does.
[01:35:03] And I agree with Leah.
[01:35:04] May we all enjoy something as much as corn kid loves his corn.
[01:35:08] That's right.
[01:35:10] This is not about corn.
[01:35:12] This email is not about corn.
[01:35:14] Indeed.
[01:35:15] Rites in with info about facilities like the lighthouse.
[01:35:18] Hey, lower hounds.
[01:35:19] Hey, Bettina.
[01:35:21] Just a few thoughts on a scene that I can sadly relate to and I would imagine many people
[01:35:25] will have strong opinions on from what I understand, Jules submits herself voluntarily
[01:35:30] to psychiatric care facility.
[01:35:33] I don't know how things in the US work, but in Austria, that means that patients are absolutely
[01:35:37] free to come and go as they wish.
[01:35:39] Every facility usually has rules concerning when patients have to be home, but that's just
[01:35:45] the internal rules.
[01:35:47] If a patient decides to act against the rules, there is not much we can do here.
[01:35:50] Facilities such as the lighthouse don't usually don't have security because we really what we
[01:35:55] really need are psychologists and social workers.
[01:35:59] And that's what the budget is spent on.
[01:36:01] So yes, it does happen that a patient leaves a facility and people on duty don't even
[01:36:05] know that they're gone.
[01:36:06] And it can be absolutely nuts for a few hours.
[01:36:10] Oh, sorry.
[01:36:11] And it can absolutely be a few hours up to a whole day before we notice.
[01:36:16] It's a hard truth we have to deal with because we absolutely know that what we see with Jules
[01:36:21] can happen anytime simply because we don't have the resources to check on every patient
[01:36:26] every other hour.
[01:36:27] And yes, I have also been confronted by family members like tomorrow.
[01:36:32] We try to be supportive as best we can.
[01:36:35] And we also have to protect our staff.
[01:36:37] So Navarro's behavior would be absolutely unacceptable.
[01:36:41] Curious to see where the final two episodes are going to take us.
[01:36:46] Well, thanks, Petina for sharing your professional, your personal professional experience.
[01:36:52] It's yeah, it's kind of work that I can't imagine what that is like where people really
[01:36:59] desperately need a lot of care.
[01:37:02] But at the same time, we don't want to recreate mental health facilities that we had earlier
[01:37:08] when people were involuntarily held.
[01:37:11] And that led to a system of abuse and not treating people like human beings, but sort of warehousing
[01:37:17] them.
[01:37:18] So it's tough.
[01:37:19] That's a tough line to walk.
[01:37:20] The U.S. is a mess.
[01:37:22] That's what Petina W.S.
[01:37:24] The U.S. is an absolute mess on mental health care.
[01:37:27] We did used to have a silums.
[01:37:30] They were most often called, I think, and sanitariums.
[01:37:34] Sanitariums.
[01:37:35] Yeah.
[01:37:36] Anyway, the point is, basically, it's very hard to hold people like you say.
[01:37:41] There's often an involuntary 48-hour hold if you get called in for like a suicide attempt
[01:37:47] or something like that.
[01:37:49] But after the 48 hours, basically, they got to let you go.
[01:37:52] Unless you commit a crime.
[01:37:53] Basically that's the only way they can do these involuntary, you know, imprisonment, basically.
[01:38:00] And the reason is because back in the day, and so I'm not going to defend these places
[01:38:04] because back in the day, they were ripe for abuse.
[01:38:07] Yeah.
[01:38:08] They were really, really, really bad to the patients.
[01:38:13] People were being experimented on.
[01:38:15] It was awful.
[01:38:16] It was absolutely awful.
[01:38:17] And so rightfully so, civil rights activists got involved and sued until it became illegal
[01:38:22] to have these involuntary holds without a crime being committed.
[01:38:26] So that's where we're at.
[01:38:28] But the problem is there was no funding to replace it with something.
[01:38:31] And I think in America, we probably spend more on security than we do on the psychiatrist
[01:38:36] and the social workers.
[01:38:38] Totally.
[01:38:39] It was a really great book.
[01:38:40] I'm going to recommend a book now called Violence by James Gilligan.
[01:38:45] And we've talked about Carol Gilligan in the Earth Sea series.
[01:38:48] This is actually her husband, James Gilligan.
[01:38:51] And he is a psychiatrist who worked in the, I think it was Massachusetts.
[01:38:55] It was one of those New England states.
[01:38:58] He worked in the Massachusetts violent criminal division.
[01:39:03] He was providing psychiatric care to violent, violent criminals.
[01:39:07] And over the course of a decade, he led the prison system to have zero murders.
[01:39:15] Zero in prison murders.
[01:39:17] Wow.
[01:39:18] And he did it not through increased security, but through increased psychiatry.
[01:39:22] An increased approach to understanding these prisoners and treating them with a level of
[01:39:27] respect.
[01:39:29] Right.
[01:39:30] Right.
[01:39:31] And it goes to, well, that would just open up.
[01:39:34] This opens up a whole conversation about how we actually do criminal justice and all of
[01:39:43] that.
[01:39:44] Are we actually rehabilitating people?
[01:39:45] Or are we just warehousing people?
[01:39:47] Right.
[01:39:48] Right.
[01:39:49] So interesting conversations to be had for sure.
[01:39:52] Bettina W finishes off the email by saying, also, I'm not sure how I feel about this triple
[01:39:57] diagnosis.
[01:39:58] It's possible for people to actually, it's, it's possible for people to actually suffer
[01:40:02] from all three, but personally, I have never seen it diagnosed like this.
[01:40:07] Sometimes over the years, different psychiatrists would go with different diagnoses, but all three
[01:40:11] still valid at the same time.
[01:40:13] That is a lot feels more like Lopez wanted to pay the worst mental health picture she could
[01:40:19] paint.
[01:40:20] I assure you, any one of these diagnoses would do the trick, but really wonderful acting from
[01:40:25] Akka, Niviana, I don't know if that's the right way I'm saying it in my apologies.
[01:40:30] Right.
[01:40:31] But the actress who played Jules, right, and they, the diagnosis was schizophrenia, bipolar
[01:40:35] and borderline personality.
[01:40:38] And yeah, that's, that's a lot.
[01:40:41] She just looked up the, you know, ran her finger down the index and the DSM 3ER or whatever
[01:40:47] version we're on now and picked out a bunch of them.
[01:40:50] So you ever see the TikToks that go, you're the kind of girl people write books about
[01:40:55] and then you slide the picture and it shows the DSM.
[01:40:59] That's funny.
[01:41:01] I am not on TikToks.
[01:41:02] So no, I have not seen that one.
[01:41:04] Well, I'll be here to give you all the zoomer.
[01:41:07] You can, you can give me the funny stuff from the, from the TikToks.
[01:41:11] All right.
[01:41:12] Well, thank you, Bettina W. Good.
[01:41:14] Good way to bring in a serious topic.
[01:41:15] I thought that was a good conversation.
[01:41:17] Bettina has been great about sending in really good takes and just happy that our lore masters,
[01:41:24] we have a really great interesting group of people.
[01:41:27] So it's, it's fun to get these perspectives and understandings.
[01:41:31] So all right.
[01:41:34] Speaking of somebody who likes to send in their feedback and we love to get all shallot, wrote
[01:41:41] me, wrote us in like several emails as they were doing a rewatch of episodes one through
[01:41:47] four, I would get these emails periodically going, okay, just finished this episode.
[01:41:52] Just finished this episode.
[01:41:53] I like it.
[01:41:54] I like it.
[01:41:55] It's fun.
[01:41:56] I love it.
[01:41:57] It's a dream of consciousness feedback.
[01:41:58] And I'll show on sending some photos as well that I've got to be able to bundle up and put
[01:42:01] into the detective notebook as well.
[01:42:03] So I haven't got around to doing that yet.
[01:42:05] And I'm actually stressing a little bit because episode five is, is upon us and I, I usually
[01:42:10] have a longer lead time, but there's, there weren't so many clues this episode.
[01:42:15] Yeah.
[01:42:16] Not bad.
[01:42:17] Yeah.
[01:42:18] But more answers honestly have been clues.
[01:42:19] Indeed.
[01:42:20] Which is nice.
[01:42:21] We should be being getting the payoffs now.
[01:42:22] So three main topics that all shallot has for us, a kind of a miscellaneous or with a
[01:42:26] couple of things, some stuff about Hank, some stuff about the pink jacket and then a really
[01:42:32] funny tin foil hat one about Rose.
[01:42:36] In the miscellaneous category, the silver sky mining and salal logos look very similar.
[01:42:42] Six pointed stars.
[01:42:44] That's interesting.
[01:42:45] I had not looked at those two logos.
[01:42:46] That's a, that's a good take.
[01:42:48] Again, just more internal consistency in the world just to make us feel the connectivity.
[01:42:55] So very cool.
[01:42:57] But then goes on to say star shaped wounds.
[01:43:00] Some people have been thinking that, well, maybe Enne Kay was, you know, mauled by a polar
[01:43:04] bear by the polar bear or something.
[01:43:06] And Al Shallon says, star shaped wounds, not consistent with bear mauling.
[01:43:12] Do yourself a favor and do not Google bear mauling very emphatically.
[01:43:18] Do that.
[01:43:19] Agreed.
[01:43:20] Agreed.
[01:43:21] Enne Kay had no torn, ripped flesh on these stabs and cuts, maybe more traditional Anupiac
[01:43:25] hunting weapons like a spear, harpoon, et cetera, made of animal bone.
[01:43:30] We see animal bones in the trailer and Clark's trailer.
[01:43:36] So yeah, it's possible.
[01:43:37] And then I think do 71 had posted something, was it do in the discord and it started looking
[01:43:45] at teeth of whales, because we have those whale bones in the eyes there.
[01:43:49] And so, you know, was, was that something, you know, some sort of weird creature thing?
[01:43:54] We don't know.
[01:43:55] I, yeah, I definitely am not, I'm on team polar bear is, is a guardian spirit, not a, not
[01:44:03] a bad guy spirit.
[01:44:07] So especially with, and I think if you listen to the official podcast, they talk a little
[01:44:13] bit about this, where Navarro, we see in some of the dream sequences is doing this sort
[01:44:19] of peek-a-boo thing with her son with Holden and covering one eye.
[01:44:24] And that is definitely in some of the dream sequences where, you know, he's got a polar
[01:44:29] bear, Holden himself is covering her hit one eye or she's covering his one of his eyes.
[01:44:36] And then we have this one eyed polar bear.
[01:44:37] So I think the polar bear is an extension of Holden's spirit into, into the world.
[01:44:43] So that's where I'm at.
[01:44:45] Okay.
[01:44:46] I like that.
[01:44:47] Yeah.
[01:44:48] Anyway, I'll show on continues with Hank watch.
[01:44:52] This is a pretty few huge Hank find on rewatch.
[01:44:56] This is going back to episode one.
[01:44:58] Hank is rifling through Clark's room as soon as they get to the station.
[01:45:03] This is when Liz walks down the hallway as the voiceover is explaining the jobs of each
[01:45:08] of the scientists can tell it's Clark's room from the desk layout.
[01:45:13] We see later when they are in his room searching for the pink parka.
[01:45:19] Hank already knows Clark and anywhere together from the hairdresser, which we got, you know,
[01:45:24] he got that call years ago and maybe checking to make sure that Clark doesn't have any evidence
[01:45:30] leading back to her.
[01:45:33] Do they come up empty-handed later because any possible clues have already been removed
[01:45:37] by Hank?
[01:45:39] Well, I think the parka was already gone.
[01:45:44] Right.
[01:45:45] So that's the problem with that one.
[01:45:46] That, but yeah, was there anything else?
[01:45:48] Yeah.
[01:45:49] Yeah, were there pictures or anything?
[01:45:50] But I don't know because we have the whole trailer with pictures too, right?
[01:45:53] Right.
[01:45:54] I don't know.
[01:45:55] Maybe he was keeping it secret more.
[01:45:56] But I certainly dig the idea that the first thing that Hank does is finds Clark's room
[01:46:01] and starts, you know, double-checking, right, trying to make sure that his tracks are covered.
[01:46:06] So that's a really good one.
[01:46:08] That's really subtle too.
[01:46:09] That's really cool.
[01:46:10] I like that.
[01:46:11] Yeah.
[01:46:12] And now we know Hank's fake faith, but this is before the Al-Shulant got to watch the episode.
[01:46:18] Yeah.
[01:46:19] Exactly.
[01:46:20] So, and something I think you only would pick up on a rewatch.
[01:46:23] So that's cool as well.
[01:46:25] All right.
[01:46:26] Pink jacket.
[01:46:27] Pretty sure that there's only one pink jacket says Al-Shulant.
[01:46:30] The AK had a ripped jacket in her case files.
[01:46:34] Every time we see it after, it has a patch covering up the rip.
[01:46:38] I don't think the rip is from removing the patch.
[01:46:42] You put a patch on things to cover rips, right?
[01:46:46] The episode one case photos that show the Tada moment where Liz realizes it's the same jacket
[01:46:52] is shown side by side when Annie Kay was alive.
[01:46:57] Ripped equals before Clark Insololol photos equals patch after.
[01:47:05] This is before we know that Annie and Clark were lovers, and this is the first connection
[01:47:09] we find in the case, in the cases since the tongue hasn't been tested yet.
[01:47:15] Interesting.
[01:47:16] I had it the other way around, and I think Al-Shulant has a really good take on this, that the patch
[01:47:22] is added, and that would be a nice flip, a nice inversion.
[01:47:26] Yeah.
[01:47:27] Into the law.
[01:47:29] I think that's right.
[01:47:31] I think that's right.
[01:47:32] I think that this is the same jacket.
[01:47:34] And Al backs me up.
[01:47:36] He does.
[01:47:37] He does.
[01:47:38] He does.
[01:47:39] And this means that heist got the jacket from Clark in the night country.
[01:47:45] Yes.
[01:47:46] Yeah.
[01:47:47] I think that's good.
[01:47:48] That's some detective work by Al-Shulant here.
[01:47:50] Makes sense.
[01:47:51] I'll tear him up with Peter.
[01:47:52] They'll be unstoppable.
[01:47:53] That's right.
[01:47:54] Well, I don't know.
[01:47:55] After this last one, you may want to question Al-Shulant's logic here a little bit.
[01:48:00] Put on your tin foil hats, because here it comes.
[01:48:04] Uh-oh.
[01:48:05] Is Rose real?
[01:48:06] Okay.
[01:48:07] Are they sixth-sensing us?
[01:48:08] Is Rose a ghost to evidence for?
[01:48:12] Navarro's the only person that talks to Rose.
[01:48:15] After getting off the chopper when discovering the corpseacle, Liz walks right past Rose like
[01:48:19] she doesn't exist.
[01:48:21] They show a short clip of the chopper scanning the tundra for the scientist before the call
[01:48:25] comes in for the bodies.
[01:48:27] It seems they would have found them.
[01:48:30] After Navarro speaks with Rose at the tundra where the bodies are found, Rose leaves.
[01:48:35] Navarro takes a step, stubbles, and looks down, finding the folds of clothes on the ground
[01:48:38] exactly where Rose was just standing.
[01:48:43] Evidence against.
[01:48:44] The Peter Pryor does say Rose founded on the radio when calling in the bodies, but the
[01:48:50] radio call is interrupted by the static and the lights and the salafs like her before.
[01:48:54] He says this.
[01:48:55] Are they using the radio interference to tell us this part or the phone call wasn't real?
[01:48:59] Now, obviously, we know that this theory has got to be unfounded because Navarro tells Peter
[01:49:09] to go to take the bodies to Rose, and he knows who Rose is, right?
[01:49:13] He doesn't go who to have his Rose.
[01:49:18] And well, I guess that still could be Rose's fake and just like a manifestation of Navarro's
[01:49:22] mind or a ghost if she's saving her from the water and it's really just Navarro doing
[01:49:27] it.
[01:49:28] But I don't know.
[01:49:30] Yeah, I think I think I think I'll show on his chasing Markley's here.
[01:49:36] But it's great.
[01:49:37] I love the evidence.
[01:49:38] I love the case.
[01:49:39] I love the theorem here.
[01:49:41] It's well.
[01:49:42] It's well documented.
[01:49:44] So good job.
[01:49:45] Yeah.
[01:49:46] Well, thank you.
[01:49:47] Well, thanks a lot.
[01:49:48] Yeah.
[01:49:49] I'm looking forward to your final analysis when we get well, especially I want to definitely
[01:49:52] want to hear what you have to say after this episode and then we'll see what we do after
[01:49:55] episode six.
[01:49:56] Well, closing us out will be lore master Nancy M who posted in the discord.
[01:50:02] Thanks to season four.
[01:50:03] I decided to go back and bin seasons one to three.
[01:50:06] Wow.
[01:50:07] That's impressive.
[01:50:08] Yeah.
[01:50:09] It's a lot.
[01:50:10] When a person explains the meaning of the spiral symbol, this person says it's a code
[01:50:14] for pedophiles.
[01:50:16] So I went online and found an article about how there are different symbols representing
[01:50:19] that behavior.
[01:50:23] And so that's that's interesting.
[01:50:24] I know Nancy, I wanted to a little bit more detail where we're going to leave that out
[01:50:28] of this part.
[01:50:29] But thank you.
[01:50:30] Yeah.
[01:50:31] And for doing some research on that.
[01:50:32] And there's some actual, yeah, there's a symbol similar symbols out there that in that
[01:50:39] world.
[01:50:40] Finally, the orange or the color orange is very important to first nations communities.
[01:50:47] And Nancy M limbs lives in Canada.
[01:50:49] So that's what, yeah, that's the chosen name for people in Canada for for indigenous
[01:50:56] communities.
[01:50:57] It's interesting to see the different names around the world.
[01:51:00] Mm hmm.
[01:51:01] Finally, the orange, the color orange.
[01:51:02] So I've got the details on it below, but in the last few years it has become more heartbreaking
[01:51:08] as the skeletons of children are being found on the grounds of former residential schools
[01:51:13] across Canada.
[01:51:14] A very, very, very sad period in Canadian history.
[01:51:18] In my own community, there are lots of homes flying orange flags.
[01:51:21] Yeah, that's been so sad to see that start to come out.
[01:51:24] It's really, really sad.
[01:51:25] I'm glad that the government is trying to is it seems like the government's from an outsider's
[01:51:30] perspective, it seems like the government's trying to do something about it.
[01:51:33] You know, like make, make reparations or something, but let's hope they do a lot.
[01:51:38] Orange Shirt Day was first established as an observance in 2013 as part of an effort
[01:51:45] to promote awareness and education of the residential school system and it's, and the
[01:51:49] impact it has had on indigenous communities for over a century.
[01:51:53] The impact of the residential school system has been recognized as a cultural genocide.
[01:51:58] Mm hmm.
[01:51:59] Yep.
[01:52:00] The use of an orange shirt as a symbol was inspired by the accounts of Phyllis Jack Webstad, who
[01:52:07] was personal clothing, including a new orange shirt, was taken from her during her first
[01:52:12] day of residential schooling and never returned.
[01:52:15] The orange shirt is thus used as a symbol of the forced assimilation of indigenous children
[01:52:21] and that the residential school system enforced.
[01:52:25] The day was elevated to a statutory holiday for federal workers and workers in federally
[01:52:29] regulated workplaces by the Parliament of Canada in 2021 and named National Day for Truth
[01:52:35] in Reconciliation in light of the claims of over 1,000 unmarked graves near former residential
[01:52:41] school sites.
[01:52:43] That's shocking.
[01:52:44] Yeah.
[01:52:45] That's just a horrific number.
[01:52:47] And you know, that's, that's without even going into the US Trail of Tears and everything else
[01:52:52] that went on.
[01:52:53] Yeah.
[01:52:54] We're at our own, our own, the same thing happening down here as well.
[01:52:58] So.
[01:52:59] It was, I mean, there were direct genocides in the US of indigenous populations and
[01:53:05] not to mention the second class citizenship, a lot of indigenous communities experienced
[01:53:09] for a very, very long time and continue to feel the effects of today.
[01:53:13] Yeah.
[01:53:14] So I'm glad that the show is bringing light to a lot of that.
[01:53:17] And we have, you know, we had echo, which, you know, say what you want about the quality
[01:53:21] of it, the fact that it centers around Native American communities, killers of the flower
[01:53:25] moon.
[01:53:26] This feels like we're getting some, some moving the cameras focus around a little bit and
[01:53:32] catching some different stories.
[01:53:35] And that's good.
[01:53:36] I'm glad we're starting to open that space up a bit more.
[01:53:39] Right.
[01:53:40] Well, thanks, Nancy M. Thanks everyone for writing in again.
[01:53:44] Send us an email, go to the website.
[01:53:47] Look in the show notes.
[01:53:48] If you can't remember what I'm saying and everything will be there for you.
[01:53:52] That's right.
[01:53:53] David, shall we wrap it up?
[01:53:55] We should.
[01:53:56] I think if we, if you edit this, right, this is going to be an under two hour podcast.
[01:54:02] So let's zoom through our outro and make sure we bring it in quickly about our patreon
[01:54:08] I mentioned before at the top.
[01:54:10] If you're new here, thanks for stopping by.
[01:54:14] Thanks for checking this out.
[01:54:15] If you signed up on the patreon as a, you know, trial member or what have you, we really
[01:54:19] appreciate it.
[01:54:21] It's all of your effort.
[01:54:24] We do this as our side hustle and we have a number of co-hosts that we work with and we
[01:54:28] have a number of different costs and things.
[01:54:31] And so all of that support, make sure that everybody gets to share and partake.
[01:54:35] And we also do this not at a loss.
[01:54:37] We make lose on our, well, I don't say it's a loss from our personal time.
[01:54:41] We do it as a hobby and a labor of love, but it doesn't cost us real in terms of real money
[01:54:47] spent to keep all the lights on.
[01:54:49] So if you do decide to subscribe, we really appreciate it and know that that's where your
[01:54:56] resources are going to.
[01:54:58] And again, consider doing an annual membership.
[01:55:02] We give a nice discount on it and for the price of less than a happy meal, like a happy
[01:55:08] meal is like $30 these days.
[01:55:11] You can support us for the year and that's great.
[01:55:14] We've got a lot of good stuff coming on later on.
[01:55:16] We'll talk about our program.
[01:55:17] We'll schedule in a minute.
[01:55:18] And not to mention, we'll talk about it again another time, but we've got the Second Breakfast,
[01:55:23] which is our Patreon exclusive podcast that's coming up for February as well as you get access
[01:55:28] to the show tracker, which will help you to bring some sanity into your viewing habits
[01:55:34] because there's just too much on television these days.
[01:55:37] John, you want to talk about the Discord a little bit?
[01:55:41] Sure.
[01:55:42] You know, we've got our server boosters, Narls, Aaron K. Opus and the machine and me, John
[01:55:48] Lourhound.
[01:55:49] I'm a server booster.
[01:55:50] Fun.
[01:55:51] We've got a really fun welcoming community, a lot of great chats happening.
[01:55:54] We just put a bot in there to give you the book description if you tag the bot, which
[01:55:59] is kind of fun.
[01:56:00] Yeah, because the whole book channel, we're chatting about books and not just stuff that's
[01:56:04] on the podcast.
[01:56:05] A lot of good community.
[01:56:07] I'm really proud of the community we've built.
[01:56:08] So join us on there.
[01:56:11] We also have got some affiliate podcasts, but they're kind of quiet these days.
[01:56:15] I know Anthony's been busy with real life stuff.
[01:56:21] And him and Steve have a podcast called Properly Howard Movie Review.
[01:56:26] They're hilarious.
[01:56:28] Steve's a stand up comic and Anthony is a theologian and they have a good time taking down old movies.
[01:56:35] And so you go back, if you go into the show notes, again, there are links and you can find
[01:56:39] their feed and go back and listen to some of their episodes.
[01:56:42] The great thing about their podcast is that you don't have to have seen the movie to enjoy
[01:56:48] and have a good time listening to their content.
[01:56:51] We also work with Alicia, who has a feed, Wool Shift Dust and she got started with the
[01:56:57] Wool Shift Dust books that got turned into the silo television show.
[01:57:03] And I know she covered Beacon 23 and she's getting ready for Dune and three body problems.
[01:57:09] So definitely check out her feed on the show notes.
[01:57:14] And then of course, she's a co-host with us on the MC Universe podcast and then all kinds
[01:57:20] of other things.
[01:57:21] And we're trying to get some Oscar coverage sorted out before the Oscars come up.
[01:57:26] And so keep your ears out for that.
[01:57:28] Yeah.
[01:57:29] Oh, and we've got Marilyn, our favorite Tolkien scholar, but we can't talk about our podcast
[01:57:33] just yet.
[01:57:34] It's getting very exciting.
[01:57:35] I'm excited to finally hear it.
[01:57:38] Yeah.
[01:57:39] Two in the can.
[01:57:40] All right.
[01:57:42] True Detective every week.
[01:57:43] As you know, you're here.
[01:57:44] We're every week one to do more left.
[01:57:47] Yeah, one more after this.
[01:57:48] Yeah.
[01:57:49] We did an interview with Lieutenant Colonel Retired, Matt Kavanaugh.
[01:57:53] He was really brilliant.
[01:57:55] We talked to him about Rogue One and Star Wars in general as it relates to his military expertise.
[01:58:00] And once I finally edit Rogue One, that'll be out too.
[01:58:03] So that should be out early in the week following this podcast.
[01:58:07] I think it'll be good timing for that.
[01:58:09] So we'll have that.
[01:58:10] We'll have the second podcast on a Rogue One, so plenty of Rogue One content.
[01:58:15] We just have a new Shireside chat if you're really excited for that.
[01:58:18] A quick note to the Rogue One is part of our ongoing Star Wars film festival series.
[01:58:21] So next up is going to be a new hope.
[01:58:24] Yeah.
[01:58:25] Yep.
[01:58:26] That'll be fun.
[01:58:27] I just wanted to shout out my own podcast where I do my brief podcast on, but you know,
[01:58:32] bite-sized pods for Shireside chats.
[01:58:35] I go through the letters of JR Tolkien one by one.
[01:58:38] So check that out.
[01:58:39] It's a Patreon exclusive as a second breakfast where we talk about life, what we're watching
[01:58:43] on fair, what we're reading, what we're playing.
[01:58:46] And we watch an old man movie.
[01:58:47] And this one, what one, David, I don't know.
[01:58:49] It looks like it's going to be the black hole, the Disney version of the black hole.
[01:58:55] That's the only version.
[01:58:56] And I'm trying to remember the year if you'll give me a moment that is 1979.
[01:59:03] Very cool, creepy movie, but pretty awesome.
[01:59:06] It's winning by one vote.
[01:59:07] That's another thing patrons get to do is I get to vote on what movie we cover for the
[01:59:13] second breakfast podcast.
[01:59:14] Very cool.
[01:59:15] And now it is 27 votes and there's 22 hours left in the poll at the time of this recording.
[01:59:20] So you said we were going to fly through this outro and you're telling me the number of votes
[01:59:23] on this thing.
[01:59:24] Let's go.
[01:59:25] Anyway, anyway, if you're into reading, we're doing some early in stories.
[01:59:31] We're going through the Silmerillion chapter by chapter at nexus of men.
[01:59:34] That'll be out soon.
[01:59:36] Dragonfly and the other wind as part of our Earthsea read through with Marilyn, our Prokela
[01:59:40] will be out later in the month.
[01:59:42] And I just recorded Final Fantasy seven with Brandon.
[01:59:45] So that's finally in the can.
[01:59:46] We did it.
[01:59:47] We did it.
[01:59:48] It was a fun podcast.
[01:59:49] So I hope people listen to that too.
[01:59:51] And so we got a lot of stuff coming this month as well as we're considering.
[01:59:54] You got to watch Mr. and Mrs. Smith, man, it's hilarious.
[01:59:57] I know, but I got to catch up on Halo.
[01:59:59] I got a lot of stuff going on and then we got Shogun.
[02:00:02] Shogun's getting good reviews.
[02:00:04] So anyway, interesting, they wouldn't give a screen or so.
[02:00:08] So I don't know too much TV, too much TV, too much TV, but we're having fun doing it.
[02:00:14] David, give us a thank you for the Patreon lore masters.
[02:00:17] Summarshan, Mark H, Michael G, Michelle E, David W, Brian P, Nick W, S C, Peter O H,
[02:00:25] Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M, do 71, Brian, 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C, Eric F,
[02:00:35] Matthew M, Sarah M, DJ Miwa, Andra B, Kwong U, Dead Eye, Jedi, Bob, Nathan T, Alex V, Aaron
[02:00:43] T, Sub-Zero, Aaron K, Dally V, 21, Narls, and always last, but never least, Adrian.
[02:00:52] Thank you all so very much for your support.
[02:00:56] We appreciate you all, everyone.
[02:01:00] Very cool.
[02:01:01] Very cool.
[02:01:02] Thanks, everyone.
[02:01:03] It's been a pleasure doing true detective with you all.
[02:01:06] Looking forward to the finale and our wrap up.
[02:01:08] For now, we'll see you on the other side of the long night.
[02:01:13] The Lore Hounds Podcast is produced and published by the Lore Hounds.
[02:01:16] You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at the lorehounds.com slash contact.
[02:01:22] Get early and add free access to all Lore Hounds Podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lore Hounds.
[02:01:27] Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to
[02:01:31] any employers or other entities.
[02:01:33] Thanks for listening.
Transcription results written to '/home/forge/transcribe.sonicengage.com/releases/20240210005325' directory
