EII: ep 2 – Visions S2-e5,1,2 – Sith of the Old Republic (LEGENDS)

[00:00:00] OK, David. This is where we're supposed to choose a side. Green or black? John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So, we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to, like, pick sides and fight and stuff.

[00:00:24] Don't worry. I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod, but we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like the show. The politics, the drama, the lore! It was made for the Lorehounds.

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[00:00:50] plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in the Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot, but probably positive, takes. The Lorehounds house of the dragon covers is also safe for teen green consumption.

[00:01:03] Side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore, a hardened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book fire and blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning.

[00:01:31] Welcome to the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast. I'm your host, Alicia, and today I have two special guests. Hi, healthy and marching. Hello. Hi. We're going to be looking at our first batch of Star Wars Visions episodes today.

[00:01:47] The theme this time is Sith Legends of the Old Republic. And for the record, this is recorded on July 14th, 2024. And this is a flashback episode. This is the second flashback episode that I'm recording. I'm going to do it a little bit differently this time.

[00:02:03] I'm going to be releasing it at first at the current moment on the timeline, and then after a week or so, backdating it to where it fits in, which is in the Old Republic, of course.

[00:02:15] But since this is a flashback episode, this is actually set before the first episodes where you guys, healthy and marching have appeared before. So just a quick reintroduction. These are some of my long time offline friends.

[00:02:31] I shall use a professional animator and marching is a gamer drawn to the power of the dark side in Star Wars. So these are the ideal people to talk through this podcast's first batch of Star Wars Visions episodes.

[00:02:44] And the spoiler policy, by the way guys, is that we can acknowledge characters that exist, but we can't spoil their arcs later in the so we can say Anakin Skywalker is a character that exists, but we can't say what happens to him. Wow. Interesting.

[00:03:02] Not until we get there in the timeline. So Star Wars Visions, you guys, I think, Chelsea, you've seen it before in March and this was your first time watching any of these? Yes. First time for me.

[00:03:16] Yeah. I have. There's a couple of episodes that I still haven't seen, but I've seen all the ones that you pointed towards and I was kind of going over them kind of from season one.

[00:03:27] And I must say the selection that you gave us is very good. Really top notch. I mean, the old Republic has some of the most ripe for storytelling. Star Wars Visions, it's an anthology series and this is a chronological podcast, timeline podcast.

[00:03:47] So we're going to be talking about the episodes in this series in a completely random order based on how they would roughly date on the timeline. So this is going to be a best guess situation

[00:04:00] for Visions in most cases. Sometimes it's really explicit in the episodes. A lot of the time, these are like, these are definitely not canon stories. Definitely legends. They were given, the creators were given complete creative freedom to tell a story within Star Wars. So they did just

[00:04:20] said basically use Star Wars themes, any of your favorite things and tell a story specific to your culture. So they're from all over the world. These episodes, so you guys asked, Sheltie, I think you asked before we, you're like refresh my memory again, like what is the,

[00:04:38] what exactly is that about like, so this was, this is like the millennia before, you know, the original Star Wars movie. So this is like thousands of years before and this is when there was the Sith splintered off from the Jedi and there was like a

[00:04:54] millennia long civil war between these two factions. We have two of these that seem to take place during this time before Darth Bane introduced the rule of two. And yeah, in the overview episode,

[00:05:07] we talked a lot more about the rule of two, but Marchion, how would you summarize the rule of two? The rule of two is that there can be only two, the master and the apprentice

[00:05:18] No more nor less. Yeah, basically, although they violate that all the time to because they are always Sith or just inherent backstabbers. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I must say as a, you know, somebody that's maybe not a hardcore Star Wars fan or whatnot, I always it always

[00:05:36] irked me slightly that that idea of the rule of two and just because it seems very inefficient, you know, like if the idea is to, you know, like, spread this thing around or whatever, then limiting them to two. I always assumed that

[00:05:54] the rule of two actually meant that you can't have a bigger organization going on. It has to it's like little splinter cells and eat splinter cells. Cell has a master and apprentice and not that are officially sith then. No, okay, I see because the sit at this point,

[00:06:12] like so there's Darth Bane and Darth Bane. So the Jedi take out most of the Sith, you know, they're winning the war and then Darth Bane just kind of finishes the job and says now

[00:06:21] there's only going to be a master and an apprentice because the and this gets passed on for generations because the idea is that they're not trying to like spread the good word or something.

[00:06:33] They want to have control because they don't trust anyone and they want to even each other, even each other, especially each other. And they want to wriggle their way into, you know, the Jedi and and the Republic from and destroy it from the inside.

[00:06:51] Yeah. So they say like you can't trust it. You can't trust more than just like one other person and even that, you know, someday they're literally going to be. Yeah. It definitely feels like it fits well with what I always saw as a bit of that contrast between

[00:07:07] the Jedi and the Sith, you know, perhaps on the surface level, which is that the Jedi are more cooperative. They are, you know, like that lighter side is more cooperative and lends itself more to, you know, kind of that teamwork situation. And on the other side is more

[00:07:25] that selfishness, which then would mean that the Sith, you know, there's something more primal. There's like primal selfishness that is being kind of curtailed in order to get you to the dark side. But that also means that there doesn't feel like there's

[00:07:45] some kind of a higher calling that they're wanting to follow. It's just selfishness that is bringing them there. That makes sense. Well, yeah, it's a power, just accumulating power in one person basically. Power of the force and power and political power, military power,

[00:08:04] all the power you can think about. That's yeah. And when you see, I mean, so spoilers for the three episodes we're going to talk about today, which are by the way, all three from season two,

[00:08:16] we're going to talk about in this order episode five journey to the dark head, episode one, sith and episode two, Screacher's Reach. But yeah, we see, especially in Screacher's Reach, how they when you call, you know, when you seduce someone to the dark side, you don't just,

[00:08:34] sometimes it's about power, but often it's about like just escaping your planet like we see in Screacher's Reach or in other case, it's about you've lost someone and you want them

[00:08:42] back or just it is a selfish drive. But I guess the reason I also am kind of highlighting that slightly, you know, it's always been kind of my gut feel of the differences between the two factions

[00:08:57] is that in these episodes, I feel like they maybe slightly undermined it or, you know, they bent the rules slightly and I wanted to then kind of touch upon that. Yeah, well, we're definitely going to talk about that as we go. But of course, yeah, keep in mind

[00:09:10] that these are these are not canon stories. These are just more riffing on Star Wars, but they still, they do especially what we're talking about this is something that they are playing with a lot, that they're questioning or confirming or confronting in different ways. So yeah,

[00:09:26] yeah, and like all legends, the elements of these stories could be brought into canon hasn't happened yet, but could very well happen. So I sent you guys also a link to the name of this television series was inspired by an art book that George Lucas put together in

[00:09:43] 2010. I don't know if you guys got a chance to look at it, but it's called it's called Star Wars Art Visions. And it's, it's yeah, he just got like visual artists from all different types of styles

[00:09:56] to create art of Star Wars. And it's just I recommend looking it up. There's some really cool stuff in there. Yeah, it definitely feels like it's in that vein. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so for the TV show, each story is made by a different studio. They're all

[00:10:11] unconnected to each other, the stories, but all inspired, like I said, by Star Wars themes and storytelling. They're given Max creative freedom. Marchion, you responded, you're like, this is reminding me of the animatrix. And I think you brought up love, death and robot.

[00:10:28] Yeah, yeah, definitely has that vibe. It's fantastic. Yeah, especially second season. It's more varied in terms of visual styles. Yeah, there's much more creativity there. And in that regard, it reminds me of animatrix quite a lot. Yeah. Yeah, I will say just,

[00:10:48] you know, to touch upon animatrix, like matrix in and of itself, that film, it stands on its own feet completely. And it has like a satisfying ending and whatnot. Like I never, ever felt like it needed an actual sequel. But then when the animatrix came out,

[00:11:05] it felt like a way more interesting way of diving into that world, which is don't just make a sequel, like take little slices of life that are kind of part of the tapestry of that

[00:11:18] world and dive into that instead. Yeah, I have to say that's why I've been really into the Star Wars short stories recently. Yeah, for exactly that reason. But yeah, so for this, the first season

[00:11:33] was all Japanese studios. And they were like, this is, this is an ode to anime basically in acknowledgement that George Lucas was wildly inspired by Kurosawa, the filmmaker in making Star Wars in the first place. And then in the second season, the ones we're going to be talking

[00:11:49] about today, they went more international. So there's like, there's at least one from almost every continent. And each story is crafted as a reflection of the national culture of that studio. So that's yeah, I agree. The first season was cool, second season's better.

[00:12:08] And the third season is rumored to maybe release this year in 2024, no confirmation yet. But if you're listening to this later, it's possible that there'll be an update episode right after this one in the timeline. And yeah, each of the two seasons so far have nine episodes.

[00:12:24] And each episode is about 15 minutes long. So super easy to watch them all. And a lot of high profile studios involved, we're going to talk about them as we talk about the different pieces. Just for the record, the first volume was released on September 22nd,

[00:12:39] 2021. And the second was released May 4th, May the 4th, be with you 2023. And yeah, both have been really well received. And I do recommend also, when you look at it in

[00:12:52] Disney Plus at the show on the extras tab, you'll find a series of like behind the scenes videos called Filmmaker Focus. And those, yeah, for great insights and also like cool, like they even show the landscape of the different countries and what was inspired by

[00:13:11] an interviews with all the filmmakers. So I really recommend that those are all like five to 10 minutes each. Very cool, I got to check that out. Yeah. So today we're going to be talking

[00:13:23] about three from the first two seasons or season two specifically in this order these take place during the old republic. So we've got Journey to the Dark Head, which is set during the heyday of the Sith, so that season two episode five, season two episode one is Sith,

[00:13:39] which also features Sith grouping together. So this must be before their fall. And then we have season two episode two, Screatures Reach, which seems to be a story set within the rule of two

[00:13:50] that we were talking about. Yeah, these I have to say, two of these are two of my favorites of the entire series. And I think I also really like Sith because of the art styles really special to especially you. I think we all like Screatures Reach a lot.

[00:14:07] It's amazing. It's Cartoon Saloon. As soon as I saw that at the kind of the title card that you know presented by you know, Cartoon Saloon, I knew that I was going to see high

[00:14:17] quality. Yeah, great studio. Yeah, yeah they are. And also in I think four weeks after this there'll be an episode releasing with us talking about season one episode seven, The Elder and season two episode nine, Owl's Song. If you want to watch those in advance.

[00:14:36] But those are set in the high Republic part of the timeline. So we're they're dealing with a fallout of the Sith rule generations later. Okay, so we jump into the first one, Journey to the Dark Head season two episode five, 20 minutes long from Studio Mir in South Korea,

[00:14:56] who's worked on I mean really impressive portfolio of especially things that I specifically like. Like the Legend of Korra, My Adventures with Superman, The Boondocks, X-Men 97. Do you guys watch any of those? Boondocks? I have only seen like I think I saw the pilot and then I got

[00:15:15] too busy with other stuff. I think they did like season four yeah. Yeah for me Legend of Korra. Yeah, I guess the most popular. But X-Men 97 is that actually a cartoon made in 97?

[00:15:30] No, oh you haven't watched it yet? I think you'll love it. It came out this year but it is it's picking up where the X-Men animated series left off. But it's yeah but you don't have to

[00:15:46] have watched the animated series like a lot of people ended up started with X-Men 97 then said well now I want to go back and watch the original. But yeah it's really good, it's really good.

[00:15:55] It's a lot of people's like top show of the year because yeah really high fast-paced a lot of like really comic bookie adaptation like they just really took stories from the comic book in its wild. Yeah so Journey to the Dark Head is the writer is Chung Seirung

[00:16:18] and she fell in love with episode one as a teenager. She said a quote that spoke to her which to me tells me a bit about her character. She says live like an X-wing pilot even when they are

[00:16:32] breaking apart and no one remembers them they keep going and fight for good. So yeah how would you describe an X-wing merchant? X-wing? Yeah like you mean the fighter? Yeah I mean I guess it's self-explanatory but yeah I mean it's a

[00:16:55] starship fighter with four wings that are set like an X. Or well it can expand to the fighting let's say configuration and look like an X or just collapse the wings and fly like a normal plane.

[00:17:14] Yeah I mean it's just one of the most iconic fighters I would say in the entire series. Well yeah yeah obviously that's always the rebellion. That's a postcard of rebellion. Yeah this is a bit anachronistic but you know legends they're allowed to put together anything

[00:17:34] that they want. But it was directed by Hyun-goom Park and the composer I'm gonna mention the composer for all these because they really made it a collaboration and they end up winning some awards

[00:17:47] for the music in the show. So the composers are Jang Young-gyu and Lee Byung-hoon and did you guys watch English or Korean? Okay whoa I didn't realize I didn't realize okay yeah it was in English

[00:18:06] but just because that was the default setting I guess. Yeah because I guess I didn't realize that there was a setting for the original. Okay I have to delete a couple of my notes.

[00:18:18] Like I consistently have the note where it's like I don't know why but the lip sync is like way long. Yeah yeah yeah makes sense. Now I get it okay. Normally I try to watch in the original I

[00:18:32] always watch in original but this time I chose dubbing. Yeah sorry I should have mentioned in advance yeah. I much prefer usually just to have it in the original language. It just flows better

[00:18:46] and I don't know there's something about it that is more charming to it. I don't mind. Yeah the voice acting yeah the voice acting is definitely yeah I mean it brings a lot and and like it can be

[00:18:57] sometimes lost I think. Yeah when it's dubbed. Especially yeah because of this this like sort of I mean it's not it's Korean it's not anime but this this you know high energy which apparently they

[00:19:10] tone down they said in order to make it more Star Wars. But it just seems more natural when they're saying Korean words instead of English. Yeah well one thing also I mean I like two consistent

[00:19:23] notes that I that have come up for me at least when I'm watching Visions in general is is that the lip sync is off and I'm but I'm not sure if that's intentional and now I maybe understand

[00:19:35] a little bit better that right why that might be. But then the other note is it's a slight pet peeve of mine. It has to do with the fact and this probably comes from the fact that it was being

[00:19:47] dubbed is when a character in is in some kind of a spatial relationship with what they're saying or where the camera is placed or whatnot but the audio sounds like a person in the sound booth

[00:20:03] you know only 20 centimeters from the microphone. Right because when you really want to go for like full you know the full thing performance you really want to make sure that oh if you know if it's a person who is like screaming at another person that is 20 meters away

[00:20:18] you have that person in the booth walk a little bit away from the microphone and you know try to get that intensity right but what I do see often when it comes to dubbing

[00:20:29] is that they're you know maybe on a budget and they're on the clock and they have to just get it done so right what what they do sometimes is that they're like trying to raise the volume

[00:20:38] but the person sounds like they're just kind of breathing into your ear. Yeah yeah so I should yeah I'm going to be better about saying in advanced what language I recommend people listen

[00:20:49] in if they want to avoid these things and so for the next batch the two that we're talking about in the Heimer public I know you guys have already watched them it's too late but for listeners at home

[00:21:01] I recommend watching the elder in with Japanese audio on and they in the rest that we're talking about in these two are English even the Spanish one we're talking about they actually the lip-sync

[00:21:13] goes with the English and they had their Spanish actors do both English and Spanish. Yeah I mean for me somehow Star Wars universe it just English fits somehow it's okay I can yeah. It's basic I mean

[00:21:29] I mean for anyone who doesn't remember I said that in the intro episode basic is what they call what we hear is English so that's like the common language that they speak but they can also speak

[00:21:40] like Wookie or you know. Yeah they listen to R2D2 and they understand that. Yeah I'd love to watch Visions with Wookie dubbing. Yeah exactly as long as they're subtitles. Or maybe Klingon I don't

[00:21:53] know for a little crossover. But in favor of the English dub for Journey to the Dark Head the voice cast in English does include Ashley Park and Daniel Day Kim so it is they get for their

[00:22:07] English dubs they get a really good voice cast. Okay so just to set this up so we can actually get into the episode itself the plot of this episode is during the galactic civil war between the Jedi

[00:22:19] and the Sith a young force oracle named Ara believes that the statues on her home planet of Dolgorac whose stones around its base have foretelling abilities control both light and dark as one is

[00:22:32] lit in blue light and the other in red she resolves to destroy the dark head in the belief it can turn the tide of the war years later Ara now a teenage mechanic petitions the Jedi

[00:22:42] council for a bodyguard on her quest they assign a young padawan named Tull to the task. Tull has recently lost his master at the hands of the sadistic Sith Lord Bishon leaving him traumatized

[00:22:54] and in constant fear the two of them collect supplies and head to the planet where Bishon chases them they make it to the statues but Ara realizes that both light and dark evenly flow between them making it impossible to destroy Tull overcomes his fear with Ara's help

[00:23:08] manages to kill Bishon the two of them decide to continue journeying together and as far as dating I would yeah this is set during the height of sith activity clearly where the war is going

[00:23:20] hard so definitely before 1032 bby when the sith were defeated but probably well before that and yeah the creators themselves said it's set during the old republic so y'all to have to check in with you what did you think about this one would you think

[00:23:37] about the art in the story fantastic I'll just I mean I have some notes written down I can kind of just go down the list and I was you know it's kind of writing it as I went along and then I rewatched

[00:23:51] the episode to make sure that like I had all the notes that I kind of got them down first of all good style the art style and then the animation style it's really superb it's just like you

[00:24:04] you know it's consistent it feels like it's doing its own thing while not being distracting or whatever you know like it's it feels like I can totally just live inside of that world also my art style

[00:24:17] level the fight scenes really well done just great really like I liked you know this thing that the guy has the sith lord has um hail or something I don't know yeah it's like a snake weapon

[00:24:34] yeah it's not it is you can see at one point he's holding it separately it is like a weapon but yeah yeah like it's just like when it comes out it's so kind of out of left field but he uses it

[00:24:44] really well and you know it's just really well done uh I will say that the rain visions uh that idea you know in part of the concept it adds a really interesting addition to the whole

[00:24:55] lore I know that these things you know like sometimes these are a little bit hidden myths because they might be interesting in not themselves but uh maybe it's not a the greatest puzzle piece

[00:25:06] to click together with the main you know Star Wars um thing but yeah this to me was like oh why not yeah force oracle that's a really cool concept and why not that fits yeah and especially if it's

[00:25:17] like it's slightly vague and you know and they are a little bit more on the sideline because they're doing their own thing with the force that that all like sounds great uh correct me if I'm wrong

[00:25:27] but the the Jedi Jedi knight character Toal Tao to yeah he's a padawan but yeah padawan yeah uh in they have they did a flashback with him where he was kind of being held up by the this uh

[00:25:43] sith lord and the sith lord has the lightsaber very close to him and then off camera it seems like he may have maimed him a little bit or like that you have a burning sound effect as if like

[00:25:57] oh like he gave him a scar or something like that okay but then uh and I watched this thing twice to make sure I didn't like miss it and yeah it's totally doing that but then later I kept waiting for

[00:26:08] that moment where he reveals his scar or or or like you can kind of see it on his neck and it's just not here so just curious if you guys picked up on that or not no I didn't uh no yeah I remember

[00:26:23] that moment definitely but I didn't really pay attention to what happened after it if it was actually revealed or not but yeah I mean my understanding was that yeah it was kind of a

[00:26:32] reminder or some kind of quote quote souvenir that the sith lord left for him because he said come and seek me out because there will be no jedi left and we will need a master so

[00:26:44] exactly as if uh yeah he wanted to make sure that he remembers about him specifically to come back to him yeah yeah it kind of feels like he's uh that it's almost like a story meaning like uh

[00:26:57] it's like a story element that is meant to be then brought up later repeated yeah yeah I found like there was real tension and because the sith lord seemed convinced that this

[00:27:08] tool was going to fall to the dark side and we see you know the path to the dark side is paved with good intentions you know and clearly he's got the anger and the hate and the resentment

[00:27:19] from his master being killed um so I felt real tension about whether or not he might fall the first time I watched what about you guys oh yeah I mean I you saw that you know I mean

[00:27:30] that's the thing like he's he's uh I mean the the dialogue is slightly cliche on that level you know no I will not you know like come join the you know all of that stuff and they only ever do that two

[00:27:43] jedi knights that are tempted but are you know uh uh rejecting it in the moment during a fight so that becomes its own cliche almost within the star wars star wars I don't know cinematography

[00:27:58] whatever right you mean that it becomes predictable at some point yeah yeah yeah like the only you know they don't really do that too I think quite god jinn or whatever like dude they would only

[00:28:08] do that to somebody who uh you're supposed to take the hint that you know I think he might be tempted you know yeah yeah right right uh yeah so do I just like burn through I have like I'm like four other

[00:28:22] notes um slightly ironic I guess that uh you know she goes to the Jedi council and wants to do this thing and it seems like there's like mission and it seems like the the only thing that they're

[00:28:36] contributing is the jedi I guess uh but then that's the only reason why a Sith starts following them and causes all this problem so it's just that's a good point I wasn't until I saw what's the second

[00:28:51] time I was like oh if she had just done the thing that wouldn't have been as big of an issue but whatever and then maybe but that stalled it enough that she saw that it was pointless to try to

[00:29:04] blow up one statue head oh yeah definitely I mean she wouldn't have known that of course but of course she got to save uh because maybe he would have fallen if not for her there oh yeah

[00:29:15] yeah it's a fair point that's sport you know like on a broader destiny level kind of a thing excellent point excellent point um there's this moment where you know they're on this little

[00:29:30] I don't know speed racer or whatever it is and they're you know she's raising uh they're raising up the hand of the statue and there's a jedi knight fighting a sith lord right behind her

[00:29:44] and she's like you know gotta go full throttle and and go and then you know she asks and she's like oh you gotta help me now and and he pushes her you know off the the speed racer or whatever

[00:29:56] to that ring and she lands there and you know behind her is you know a jedi knight fighting a you know a sith lord and very precarious situation but when she lands her dialogue line is

[00:30:12] so far so good all according to plan and she starts running again again yeah I'm curious if the line is different hits differently in Korea in Korea maybe so I'll give them that one it just the second

[00:30:29] time I watched it I said oh what a weird thing to say um and then you know uh that kind of my last note is that it's the end message feels actually very surprisingly nihilistic and I don't

[00:30:44] mean that necessarily in a bad way per se okay but it feels like they're they're aiming for this thing where you know where they they bring forth this more nihilistic um philosophy or more stoic

[00:30:56] philosophy where it's it kind of doesn't matter what you do like you can end the war but another war is going to take its place so no matter what you do it's like we're kind of stuck in this thing

[00:31:07] that will go on forever and then and then at the end he tries to like do a slight positive spin on it but maybe with the next wave we can change something and I'm like well you're just like I don't know

[00:31:19] okay so I'm gonna I'm gonna quote that part real quick so yes please so the exact lines are um she says this is a waste of time you were right no matter what we do it won't end there's no way to

[00:31:31] stop this war and even if we did it doesn't matter another would just arise and tool responds nothing is fixed light and dark will always coexist and if nothing is set in stone that means there

[00:31:42] will always be hope we can we are always caught in the tide of uncertainty the next wave carries as much hope as it does despair and I have to say this whole concept is one I I find it

[00:31:55] anti nihilism because she is there at the brink because she's been also been told since she was a child like we just document wars we there's nothing we can do and um and yeah I feel like especially in recent years increasingly this nihilism like that creeping

[00:32:13] in and I need to be reminded that there is that there's wiggle room that there is room for hope that there's you know because the future is still uncertain and it's not just wave after wave of

[00:32:26] despair that there's we can't say the despair won't come because it always will but there's hope in between those waves too I'm not advocating for nihilism per se here just uh just kind of pointing

[00:32:38] out that um the the story we just witnessed uh cemented the idea the nihilistic idea that she had a predetermined you know vision and then that vision was completely fulfilled and the

[00:32:54] idea that the you know the these two statues they actually just changed back and forth between the good and the bad it like to me all of that was reinforcing the idea that we're kind of stuck

[00:33:07] in this perpetual loop right well okay and then there's and then they're like doing that glimmer of hope thing at the end right so the the concept here and we talked about this and I think

[00:33:18] especially in the dawn of the Jedi overview is um Ashla Bogum and Bendu uh or in this is a Korean short film and they explicitly uh reference Yin and Yang um so Ashla and is like the light side

[00:33:35] of the force Bogum is the dark side of the force and Bendu is the balance between the two so this is like this reoccurring idea in Star Wars and I think you know it's um we see later especially

[00:33:49] where people try to deny their dark side and that ends up being their own undoing uh so I yeah this is definitely a concept we're going to talk about more when we talk about the Sith one

[00:33:58] episode I mean they're all sith ones but the one called sith so Marchie what was your thoughts on the episode overall what did you like not like yeah so I definitely liked uh the art style

[00:34:13] and yeah now knowing that it's it's uh same creators as Legend of Korra it makes a lot more sense when it comes to the way how action was presented and the colors of the whole animation

[00:34:26] and the way it was drawn um yeah the music sound effects were really good I like that and um yeah when it comes to a story I I guess I wouldn't really uh it didn't really strike me

[00:34:39] as overly nihilistic uh it's it's more about the balance that he had to find within himself which I think ultimately is a is perhaps yeah to me I got the more positive message out of it

[00:34:54] that trying to reject the the dark side or trying to to reject impulsive natures or impulsive thoughts that we have within each other is is futile uh we have to accept it we have to accept

[00:35:08] what's negative about us and about the world in order to be able to fix it so if we live in denial and if we live like we simply just uh uh deny all the bad things or don't talk about them or

[00:35:23] pretend that they don't exist well they'll never be fixed they'll never be addressed yeah so um so yeah at the end of it he he realized that he has to embrace the the darker part of his

[00:35:37] of his mind and and that's what gave him the strength that's what gave him the power so um yeah I guess it speaks to the balance of between the yin and yang or between the dark and

[00:35:50] light side and uh yeah I mean I I like that part of the story yeah that's a good point that's um I like well here's the thing also like that moment where he has that self-reflection and you know you

[00:36:04] kind of see two versions of him the more perhaps more evil version and the action like he has a realization and then the question is like what what is what kind of action you know begets

[00:36:20] that realization and it just slices the guy you know that's the thing he's been trying to do for a while now so I you know so maybe the point uh was slightly off for me I don't know but I will say

[00:36:34] one thing also uh for all of these music and sound effects or right they are hitting it I mean that's also why I almost don't mention it because all of it is just so well done that

[00:36:49] it's you know it barely bears repeating um yeah no exactly you know and I think that they are you know these might not be canon but they are adding cool concepts that I would love for them to explore

[00:37:01] in lore like you said about the the fortune telling aspect we haven't really seen force oracles before we've seen telemetry which is where you kind of get force echoes off of objects and you know there's force visions where people just you know visions appear in their head

[00:37:16] when they're traveling through hyperspace or meditating at a virgins or things like that but this yeah this force oracle idea is new and it's also we rarely get to see and this is the

[00:37:28] kind of storytelling you can only tell at this earlier point in the timeline where we see other types of force users working alongside jedi without the jedi dominating them

[00:37:41] so that was yeah that's really cool to see like these two is not at the end she's like oh I'm going to become a jedi like you because first of all that's not really an option at that age

[00:37:49] kind of like uh sit and bounty hunters for example yeah yeah it's true only I like to imagine this relationship is maybe more honestly cooperative also now that now that you mentioned it um

[00:38:05] it it does seem like you know when I just think back it does seem like this uh this planet where the these these oracles exist and it seems like its own faction that is kind of beyond the jedi and the

[00:38:19] sith but it also kind of seems like the jedi are not really aware of them uh because when she goes to the council she has to explain that I I'm from this very remote place and in that place

[00:38:32] there are these two statues and when it rains yeah so it seems like they are you know it's not that they have you know never teamed up with the jedi the jedi just like are completely

[00:38:44] aren't aware of them yeah it is um in one of the other episodes um we're going to talk about in the next one uh Aosong um the creators did say or the you know executive producers who worked

[00:38:57] with the local creators said that one of the concepts of this series is they are thinking about like what about these far-flung planets that the jedi don't even know about or were maybe

[00:39:08] in creatures reach we're going to talk about today uh they don't know about the jedi there which makes them more susceptible to different types of force users so yeah especially at this

[00:39:18] point in the timeline if we're setting this in in the old republic so much of the galaxy is unknown and yeah like almost all visions episodes the locations and characters are all new

[00:39:30] I'll definitely shout it out if that's ever not the case but yeah I would love for them to use some of these as new tools in the star wars sandbox um one thing they do have some Easter eggs

[00:39:40] and all these one good Easter egg in here is when they go to that merchant on their way the creature the creature is a swolx-swolx and if you don't remember that looks like I encourage

[00:39:49] clicking on the link I've put in the notes um they're humanoid but otherwise they look like deranged featherless murder chickens of nightmares and they're known for their ability to regrow

[00:40:01] body parts so but these are a canon creature I mean I guess I felt one of the things I liked about this is I felt the frustration of of Aura dealing with the teacher and you know when he's

[00:40:15] he's telling her you know uh the war basically will wars will continue to ebb and flow for eternity like that is he's the nihilist in this and I think the story arc is her kind of

[00:40:27] getting away from that nihilism um but what did you think about when she goes to see a Jedi council I'm not going to say it's the high council but there's a Jedi council somewhere um the Jedi says

[00:40:39] to her then what you're saying is that by breaking the mirror we may stand a chance to alter what the mirror reflects the idea is not outrageous and of course the rest are like what are

[00:40:49] you talking about well that's that's the thing about this universe where with like force users users and all of that stuff there's like so many things that are these ambiguous things so when a Jedi I guess master says something that just sounds absurd yeah inside of that world

[00:41:11] I'm like yeah I guess that does make sense I don't know well this guy's on the console what what do I say that's the one moment breaking the mirror we can alter with the mirror reflects

[00:41:23] I'm still trying to wrap my head around that one if if any listeners have thoughts then I definitely want to hear them um do you guys have any last thoughts on this episode before we move on

[00:41:33] not not really just just I think overall it's fantastic um yeah this is the kind of stuff where um I kind of wish it was part of the canon yeah exactly this is one of the closer to canon ones

[00:41:49] I think exactly it explores something that doesn't break it other stuff yeah mm-hmm yeah well for me talking about animation and mirrors it reminds me of uh of the quote from uh ghost in the shell

[00:42:03] um it's actually a passage from the bible for now we see only reflection as in a mirror then we shall see face to face what we see now is like a dim image in a mirror then we shall see face to face that was you wasn't it

[00:42:32] it kind of reminds me of maybe some deeper meaning that uh talks about yeah maybe mind and soul and how how we see each other in the mirror well it also reminds me a bit of Plato's allegory of the cave where they're saying basically that

[00:42:50] what we see is reality is just the shadows on the wall of a cave when reality is something beyond that so I wonder yeah there could be a concept there that's tying these together

[00:42:59] mm yeah well I mean it makes sense that maybe in a in a star wars world in the world of force users there's this kind of more philosophical deeper deeper meaning that makes you wonder

[00:43:13] even if it doesn't make sense that's at face value I mean yeah because George Lucas originally it was heavily influenced by Buddhism in the creation of the Jedi especially ideology mm all right let's take a quick commercial break and then we will talk about the other two episodes

[00:43:31] if you're back okay so playing the chronological game the next episode would be uh season two episode one seh and this one is a 15 minutes long and it is from El Guri Studios in Spain

[00:44:09] and this was their first production as a studio have you ever heard of them? I have not no the writer and director is Rodrigo Blas and he his backgrounds in animation departments and he directed a bunch

[00:44:23] of like troll hunters tales of Arcadia amongst other things that's the thing that I he's done that I've watched that so working with Guillermo de Toro and the composer for this one was Dan Levy

[00:44:34] who uh sounds french when he's interviewed um so just to run through the plot real quick Lola a former Sith apprentice lives in solitude on a desolate asteroid a destroyed moon with her

[00:44:48] droid E2 where she is trying to channel the force into painting her base however despite her efforts the paint keeps forming dark smudges that don't go away while investigating a droid that crashed on the planet she is suddenly visited by her former sith master who chases

[00:45:03] her down to her base with two droids and forces her to fight him inside he insists that she is to become the new sith master by killing him Lola comes to the realization that she needs to accept

[00:45:15] both light and dark halves and promptly kills the sith master with her double-edged lightsaber producing one yellow and one red blade with him telling her you are the sith master now before crumbling to dust now in control of her own destiny calling herself simply the master

[00:45:34] Lola finishes the painting and leaves the planet with E2 so we do see in this multiple sith together who come after her so this must be actually before the rule of two so set before 1032 bby

[00:45:49] but we see a double lightsaber which was invented by Ezerkun who lived around 4 000 bby so it must be somewhere in between there um so March and I'll start with you this time what did you think of

[00:46:00] this one you said this was one of your favorites oh yeah I mean definitely one of my favorites due to art style it was very unique very uh uh surprising I yeah talking about

[00:46:11] animatrix I think I even compared to any other animatrix episodes so um yeah I'm not really sure that I've seen this kind of style of animation before so uh yeah I like that a lot especially the

[00:46:27] way how it was flowing and changing and and transforming depending on what was happening whether yeah whether action was whether there was some kind of action or or not the colors were

[00:46:41] were flowing and changing to reflect more the the state of what was happening so I definitely like that yeah uh and also coming back to the story I think it's um it's probably very similar

[00:47:00] message that I got from it as as the previous episodes right it's it's this embracement of of um of duality of of one's thoughts and and trying to reject the dark side

[00:47:16] the main character trying to reject her her dark side actually made her weaker it's only one once she embraced it and she uh she acknowledged that she was a Sith and and there are some

[00:47:28] dark thoughts within her that she was able to to defeat the her former master so um yeah I I think it was overall perhaps a positive message right that that's how I got it that's how I

[00:47:43] understood it no I think yeah this is all true what do you think Yelthi I think you nailed it it is definitely um that thing of the you know the uh like embracing your own duality basically

[00:47:57] yeah and that kind of ends up making you stronger um the art style is super interesting uh the um right when it started and you just see that droid uh and you see splash of different

[00:48:12] kind of paint strokes and allowing there also to be this variety in the colors and at the same time there's this almost like a empty canvas feel to it as the camera is moving around

[00:48:25] really interesting style uh I like I kind of wish they had animated on twos to be honest okay and they did it on ones they did on ones yeah okay and for and to explain for people who

[00:48:38] don't know what that means um so if you're watching a video which is I would assume something like this is 24 frames per second um it's the equivalent of on ones animating on one single

[00:48:50] like every single frame has a new drawing but then on twos it's every other frame as a drawing and it's kind of the equivalent of watching something 12 frames per second versus 24 right so it looks

[00:49:01] it looks less smooth it looks a little yeah jerkier yeah exactly okay yeah but kind of like the previous one that we talked about that one is on twos uh and I and I think the reason why is um

[00:49:17] be a slightly more forgiving with this very unique art style and but the camera would still be on ones you know so it's it's this interesting hybrid that you can come up with uh but it's a it's kind of a

[00:49:31] I don't know personal thing as I saw it I kept feeling like it could complement it slightly better right uh interesting also regarding the style is that seems like they went for a particular

[00:49:45] painterly style everywhere but then I'm guessing they probably had some meetings uh about the skin because the skin got a different treatment you know if you guys noticed that it was way more toned

[00:49:58] down realistic yeah yeah like you know say full on realistic but definitely not as more she painterly yeah um and maybe that was just because as they were doing some experiments maybe it just felt

[00:50:10] like it disconnected you too much from the character if you went full on with that style I'm not sure but it's like it'll be interested to be a fly on the wall as they had that conversation um one thing

[00:50:22] they did say in the behind the scenes thing is that um they you know everything that she's creating within her studio is is like basically created by the force so she's kind of bringing

[00:50:34] her studio to life inside with the force and then outside is this desolate destroyed moon asteroid thing so that would also explain she's more real than everything around her

[00:50:46] it's it's also the uh the other the sith like when when you see like more skin right then it gets a bit of right but yeah all the characters are more real or and also would you say what about the

[00:50:58] the droid I would say is the other really I love the droid design by the way that's a totally unique design yeah yeah and it turns into a ball it's great it's uh and the the treatment

[00:51:09] they did on that is fantastic like with the coloring um I noticed with this one again that the lip sync felt off and the voice kept was way too close to the microphone uh and I wonder if

[00:51:23] this was also done um well this one was it was so this is a Spanish studio but actually if you they had the same artists do both the English and the Spanish but um if you

[00:51:37] watch the lip syncing the lip syncing matches up with the English okay it's I mean you know let's just say I have worked with Spanish animators and you know like like in Spanish V is treated

[00:51:53] the same as B so you know there's some quirkiness and I think uh you know especially when you work with a lot of international people like I have I've noticed how each language adds its own flavor

[00:52:04] but it has its own pitfalls also so interesting um another thing is uh so when she goes to her I'm just gonna say motorcycle I don't know what you to call that thing um well here I can tell you

[00:52:20] it's the t t s m e u six personal wheel bike and this is actually a revenge of the sith reference so this is an acronistic but again legends they can do whatever they want um but this is

[00:52:33] based on the bike that general grievous uses in revenge of the sith which is itself based on these hail fire droids which are like these rolling droids like that uh that have yeah it's interesting

[00:52:46] these are a lot of wheel shapes because they have that wheel shape they have the moon asteroid thing is sort of an empty wheel shape uh so yeah anyway and I like I may be misremembering

[00:52:59] but at one point one of the moons is kind of covering uh another planet and it kind of looks like a death star she said there's an approaching eclipse yeah okay but like at least in one frame

[00:53:11] it like felt slightly reminiscent of the kind of shape of the death well it's also yeah okay that's that's fair but also like so martin and I talked about this game Star Wars eclipse um and martin

[00:53:23] you've been watching are you caught up in the acolyte well at least you've watched the episode yeah yes yes I I watched all of it yeah eclipse plays a bigger role there too and I'm noticing

[00:53:34] yeah just more eclipse popping up in Star Wars and like having a sort of power on the force so regarding that mono cycle no wheel cycle uh so when I saw this for the first time

[00:53:49] and she confronts the Sith Lords she reaches for what looks like a holster and there's nothing there and I couldn't figure out if I was supposed to know what was supposed to be there and then only

[00:54:02] later when she runs all the way back does she pick up a lightsaber and then when in second viewing it's like it happens so quick you don't notice it but basically she's reaching for

[00:54:15] something in that wheel cycle and I guess I guess that holster is a little bit in the way so she disconnects the lightsaber off but it happens like half out of frame and so I when

[00:54:30] I caught it the second time I was like oh okay like maybe maybe it could have been done a slightly more in-screen or something because then you really feel like oh there's a thing missing and

[00:54:40] then later when that happens oh wow like she you know she forgot to grab that thing again anyway this is like a note for the filmmaker right they don't uh sorry this is this is like the filmmaking

[00:54:52] brain of mine going like hey here's feedback um yeah nobody cares about that uh okay on a more narrative level the that sith master is weirdly obsessed about sacrificing himself

[00:55:06] for the cause and and so much so that I felt like a sith would be more selfish and would be more just thinking about themselves but this guy is like willing to sacrifice anything just to

[00:55:19] recruit this person oh see no well what I the way I read it is that so there are numerous stories of like basically the sith can't leave open ends you know so if she was his

[00:55:32] apprentice yep I can say that word if she was his apprentice and she left then you know the sith way would be to hunt the former apprentice down and kill them before they can come back and kill you

[00:55:44] so that's what I assumed was going on here and then yeah if your apprentice does kill you then indeed they become the master yeah okay funny aside about that though is just thinking about

[00:55:55] the fact this is a Spanish one so both Jedi and sith call their masters master which is interesting it shows that they used to be one order um but I also think it's interesting that I was

[00:56:07] when I listened to it in Spanish they the word is maestro but it's also teacher is maestro and also you can be an artist maestro so I just found that very interesting linguistically

[00:56:21] anyway oh that that fits you know even with the kind of art style that they're going for and the fact that she's doing a painting and whatnot yeah force painting is you know we talked

[00:56:31] about force oracles force painting is another cool new idea yeah it left me slightly confused to be honest yeah but but you know but it looked cool I mean that's you know and that's definitely

[00:56:43] a worthwhile thing to make um one thing I wanted to ask you guys is uh the sith lord or master he turns to dust at the end and this is one of those things that even in the canon it's a bit

[00:57:00] inconsistent and you know partially derives from opion can only just turning into a bunch of ropes all of a sudden uh is is this a thing for the sith also right well March and I guess you can

[00:57:13] talk like we talked about it in the nights of the old republic episode about for instance like Darth Sion who's just held together by hate and pain yeah it's pure energy um yeah I guess

[00:57:29] it really depends uh what's the origin of that master right I guess anything is possible but yeah I mean perhaps uh yeah perhaps there's some some backstory that would explain it or

[00:57:42] there's some kind of sith power that he's using that was I mean in general yeah it's it's an episode that depicts a very unusual usage of of force uh for example making a painting with a force

[00:57:55] is it's not something I've ever seen before um so yeah it's possible that there's some kind of dark side power that we haven't also seen yeah or maybe it's been like keeping him alive and

[00:58:09] looking yeah maybe he is already dusted but he's just keeping himself together by the by the sheer power of his dark side yeah I mean that's yeah that's other sith or like that yeah yeah yeah

[00:58:22] because I mean that's also um nights of the old republic uh two there's a I forgot the name of the of the main bad guy but he's also badly burned and damaged and and he's keeping himself alive

[00:58:36] basically by the right scion oh that's a yeah yeah yeah right it's nihilus and and scion yeah yeah um so that might be one of the explanations but also uh yeah coming back to the to the sacrifice

[00:58:52] it the final fight in the return of the jedi it's it there's also an element of sacrifice uh if it means that it will push the next generation so to say of sith to the dark side well not sit but the

[00:59:07] but the force users so uh so it's it's as if a vader already right I have to bleep that one part but yeah oh sorry but yeah you know but yeah we see we see a very prominent uh sith in you know in

[00:59:31] the original trilogy who pulls a somewhat similar move indeed yeah I should I regret say that uh opion konopi turns into ropes sorry turns into ropes so we also see speaking of like things that

[00:59:50] come up again from the original trilogy that come up again and again we see a cybernetic arm which is a variation on the star wars losing your hand trope which yeah happens all the time

[00:59:59] um but it was cool also how they added this uh this this lightsaber was super cool so we've never seen a lightsaber before but I guess why couldn't it happen that can it would have to have two

[01:00:13] kyber crystals so kyber crystals are what power the lightsabers again so you would have one that's like you know in its natural state and and in this case it creates a yellow blade which is

[01:00:25] popular in the hyper public and earlier um and also you have one kyber crystal that's been bled so that it creates a red sith blade why not have it creates together the spanish flag of course which

[01:00:38] I get it I get it guys I see what you did there but it's just such a cool concept why not have both in the same thing I really like that that's my favorite part of this story yeah it's cool

[01:00:50] um yeah like that also just visually felt like it represented her duality coming out so like yeah as a part of like an element in the fight choreography that worked great yeah yeah and if I remember well uh where they slightly curved the blades

[01:01:09] yeah yeah it's like like spanish rapiers like spanish words yeah yeah um one more little Easter egg is she mentions a beacon which is basically like a satellite or a space station

[01:01:23] that's a very prominent beacon in the hyper public but yeah I I liked you know her whole the the moral of the story is basically light and darkness are part of the painting part of me um what do

[01:01:40] you think the sith would be like with someone like her in charge like would they be do you think she would just ban them or do you think they become could become more powerful than ever

[01:01:49] I think they would become more powerful because they see is basically she would have a bigger umbrella of different flavors of power users to kind of recruit right instead of just the ones that are

[01:02:03] at the end of the spectrum hatred if they're willing to work together well yeah that's always it's a brand-new link uh you know stray cats or something speaking of animals um I was like as soon as he attacked as soon as the sith master attacked

[01:02:20] her droid I was like kill the man kill the bad man um I just have to call it one more Easter egg Lola says at one point she says twice actually

[01:02:32] I am no sith and this echoes a later character who famously says in the clone wars I am no Jedi mm all right let's move on to uh screeches reach the last one for the old republic and that is

[01:02:49] season two episode two 14 minutes long done by cartoon saloon from Ireland who known for doing movies like secret of the kels and wolf walker and things like that um the writers for this one

[01:03:00] were will Collins and Jason Temmerig and the directors paul young and uh this one won an Annie award for outstanding achievement for directing in an animation animated television and broadcast production um and it also won a prime time creative arts Emmy for outstanding

[01:03:23] individual achievement and animation for almu redondo and uh the composer was leo Pearson so the plot of this one is a young girl named doll lives in a workhouse with her friends bethann and quinn and quina tired of living there doll convinces her friends to head out to

[01:03:39] screeches reach a remote cave with her which they do by stealing some land speed vehicles the cave is rumored to hold a ghost within its walls and the friends are eager to find it throughout the journey doll is motivated by an unusual necklace she carries they find the

[01:03:54] cave and run into the ghost which turns out to be an elderly sith woman who has been trapped doll has her friends run away then using the force she crushes the ghost with a boulder and

[01:04:05] then finishes her off with her own lightsaber after doll escapes the cave the necklace is revealed to be a communicator to a sith lord called the sith mother who had given doll the task to finish

[01:04:16] off her own master and take her place by the mother's side in exchange for refuge from the sweatshop despite doll's efforts the sith mother refuses to also take her friends leaving them feeling betrayed as doll reluctantly leaves she looks back at her friends one last time

[01:04:33] so as far as dating we don't explicitly know but like i like to think this is taking place during the rule of two we talked about the top um so we have basically the mother is a an apprentice

[01:04:48] who's getting her acolyte to defeat her master so that the acolyte becomes the apprentice and now the mother is the master so the rule of two demonstrated an action do you agree marchin

[01:05:01] yes yes i mean that's uh by far my favorite episode um because of the art style and because of the story which in my opinion actually that's that's a that's a truly nihilistic one because

[01:05:13] we have no positive relief even at the very end when we think that that the that the nightmare is finally over and and finally there's something good that's about to happen we see

[01:05:26] actual sith that came and and just snatched the child innocent child that thought that that uh yeah there's something good coming their way but in the end it's just becoming a sith master

[01:05:40] which is uh yeah which is going to be a life of well perhaps power but at the same time a lot of pain and a lot of misery undoubtedly so that's much friendship yeah so and and at the same time

[01:05:55] leaving leaving their her friends and um yeah so i would say it's it's it's very uh nihilistic in in that regard but at the same time yeah perhaps i like the contrast of this of this innocence uh

[01:06:11] innocent adventure guny style right turns real dark and then at the at the moment when we think that everything is over and finally something good is coming their way it just gets crushed again so

[01:06:24] right yeah and then it's really dark then it gets really dark uh so um yeah i think it's most of the episode it feels like a horror which is again very uh unique style compared to all

[01:06:39] the other episodes that we've seen um so yeah i would say probably other episodes are more fine for kids to watch but this one i have my i have my doubts it was getting real dark

[01:06:55] at some points and um yeah it's while i i think it was cool uh it was it was very definitely mature in a way um and perhaps not wouldn't be really understandable for yeah for someone who

[01:07:10] doesn't have who doesn't grasp this this kind of more uh philosophical morality uh questions were you were you guys surprised by the ending i was yeah i was like i said i thought that that

[01:07:28] i mean i always drink those short search stories i always try to anticipate and expect some some kind of turn some kind of turn to the dark uh some kind of twist that that they're very least

[01:07:40] so um yeah i i thought maybe maybe it's going to happen here but but at the same time yeah i wouldn't have expected exactly what's going to happen so um yeah i i thought that that was

[01:07:54] very cool yeah what do you think yoti i agree with everything i mean my notes are just so good great style in storytelling purchase you know it's just like a long list of oh it's so cool it's so cool

[01:08:09] so um i mean i knew that definitely she's gonna go in there and there's gonna be this you know sith creature there like definitely uh and she's definitely gonna i think she's

[01:08:22] gonna defeat her like that's just because it felt like it's it's leading up to that whether it's by accident or whatever it's you know but then uh the amulet being kind of a communicator to a

[01:08:35] sith lord that is actually kind of coming to pick her up as an apprentice uh well yeah i have no idea about that but um um i did feel i mean and now that you guys have put it into context of the

[01:08:46] rule of twos uh makes more sense because my only note where i had a bit of a question mark was uh killing a sith is a test to become a sith it just feels like uh you know but what if you

[01:09:03] like half fail like now we just don't have sith then you know just yeah well it's a murder i don't know like you often see like one thing that might happen is uh someone yeah this is often

[01:09:18] this is a repeated pattern where a sith apprentice takes on an acolyte and says help me kill my master and then we're gonna you know move up and fully acknowledging i know one day you're gonna do

[01:09:29] the same thing to me yeah yeah in this context it's it's uh there's one there was one sentence that's very telling when the when the mother says you did what you had to do or something like that you

[01:09:39] did what you had to do to survive which is very sith right thing to say and at the same time uh yeah the the the original sith master that was crazy she was already crushed by the boulder she was disarmed

[01:09:53] so so yeah that's killing someone like that is the path to the dark side all right that's very sith favorite she she could have just left uh at that point she could have just escaped but of

[01:10:08] course she didn't know any better and and that's right especially she doesn't know yet i exist even exactly yeah so so that's even even easier to kind of uh tell that to a child and say yeah you

[01:10:22] did what you had to do that's normal that's that's that's only natural so so that's that's makes it even darker and more sinister in fact yeah i would you know just to like throw one like

[01:10:34] tiny counterpoint there is uh when i've watched it for the first time i think i had similar feeling when i watched it for the second time it became very clear to me that they had uh they had shown

[01:10:49] that she was very much capable of throwing a lightsaber in a deadly manner and what she was actively doing was that she was you know using the force to get that back into her hand and

[01:11:04] and so you know the main protagonist is holding on to that lightsaber and being slowly pulled towards right and not sure what to do in the moment so they eventually just turn on the lightsaber to

[01:11:15] in a panic yeah so yeah yeah so i do think that it was less of uh you know oh this is a you know creature that has already been defeated you know didn't really need to kill her

[01:11:27] you know they they set it up so it was a situation where it was maybe okay not quite yeah yeah but that's that's also a very significant thing to do to pray on on such situation yeah right uh

[01:11:41] to to to to make it so ambiguous to say yeah you had you just had to do it there's no there was no other way yeah and she told her in advance the test would be in her mind and then

[01:11:52] she's like well yeah the true test is always in your mind it doesn't mean there's not someone trying to kill you in your face yeah old switcheroo yeah did you guys notice did you

[01:12:01] recognize the voice playing the sith mother oh no oh no it was angelica houston oh really oh okay that's a good choice and the design for both her and her ship was a deadly flower which

[01:12:15] i think yeah i kind of yeah well that was that was one thing by the way i you know i i love the creativity of these spaceship designs because you know it's a it's a it's a space opera fantasy

[01:12:26] like it doesn't have to abide by any sci-fi logic or science logic so you can be flowery and and have like an interesting way where it unpacks itself and opens and closes yeah it did it in

[01:12:39] such an elegant way that it was beautiful yeah and they were tricksy with us because that amulet she looks it almost looked like a Jedi symbol which in this era is kind of like a figure an

[01:12:52] abstract your figure of a bird spreading its wings it almost looks similar to that in golden and then you know the amulet says follow your path but strengthen courage and you're like oh

[01:13:00] this is a good thing yeah where sith deception but you know she she went through all this and it and they set it up well like when i went back you know and watched again the first time i was blown

[01:13:15] away about the story but even going back and watching repeat watches i'm even more blown away because you see uh like at the beginning she says i'm getting out of here and you think she means

[01:13:24] the factory but she actually means the planet and she didn't want her friends to come on this but you know they kind of muscle their way on and and i can imagine from her perspective she's like

[01:13:33] i'm i'm gonna leave you guys let's have one last fun adventure and they do the speeder race was awesome and they have the ghost stories and and then there's that telling conversation with her friend

[01:13:43] bethane where she says um what if you didn't have to go back to the workhouse the farms all of this if you could just keep going would you and bethane says there are always worse

[01:13:54] lives doll which is foreshadowing because there are better lives but then he says doll you've always wanted something more and if you ever get the chance to find out what that is take it don't look back

[01:14:05] no and at the last moment the mother gives doll the choice she says you know your friends can't come with make your choice and and doll chooses for better or worse and doll quotes her friend

[01:14:17] also at the end right to don't look back so right uh yeah it is foreshadow definitely do you think she made the right choice i think absolutely i would have done the same one interesting

[01:14:34] aspect of that choice also is that it's definitely they definitely didn't go down that kind of cliche uh path of giving a choice where you're tempting somebody with a lot of power but instead it seems

[01:14:49] like it's a person that is of such a lower status that almost any choice to get out of here is actually better yeah it's a feasible choice although it's a gorgeous planet i have to say it looks it's

[01:15:01] like ireland planet um they actually uh they basted um is inspired by carry that area of ireland and off the coast of carry is this is ireland uh skelling michael skelling michael which was

[01:15:14] used as a filming location for octo which is the uh location it's an important location especially the sequel trilogies it's the founding place of the jedi so uh and they specifically they drew like certain structures from that island into the background you guys probably also recognized

[01:15:35] that cave was a dark side virgin so it was inspired by the cave on dagaba that we see from the original trilogy where certain jedi goes in to confront uh his own dark side okay okay okay so those references

[01:15:52] and um yeah and also there's there's the speeders which you see turning up all the time which is basically like vespas like hover vespas basically they don't seem to update those much but we also

[01:16:01] got some steampunk walkers and i haven't mentioned before on this podcast but the the image on the cover of the podcast it's an at at at at at at i don't know what you guys say at at yeah okay

[01:16:17] uh but it's now that you say it i don't know yeah i mean other ways but it's fine but it's a yeah it's a type of walker they're just basically like tanks on legs and i just love them because

[01:16:29] they look like animals even though they have some impracticalities um and i just yeah i love the way that they used irish folklore like for instance a sith lady is definitely a banshee which is a female spirit

[01:16:44] who screams in wales to herald a death and at first i was thinking like she's heralding her own death but then i thought like actually she's heralding the death of dal because dal is going

[01:16:55] to die to be reborn as darth whatever her sith name is when when that when we have those moments of the uh that sith in the cave screaming and you know and turning on the lights and whatnot

[01:17:11] kind of like what marchin says i was watching that thing when i saw it for the first time i watched it on my tv and my one year old was like kind of walking around and watching it also

[01:17:20] that was the that was the only short film where i was like okay i guess uh there's some like scary imagery going on yeah i don't know but it's beautiful it's so so well done yeah yeah very cool

[01:17:37] do you guys have any final thoughts on these three episodes overall or the sith in the old republic that they are you know they overall top quality really and they add their own little twists to the lore in some cases it maybe might raise some questions

[01:17:59] about you know how things click together with the original lore and in other cases it feels just complimentary and maybe opens up some doors some doors to something interesting yeah okay yeah yeah i like the variety of the second season definitely it's it was definitely much more

[01:18:18] varied uh in terms of art styles than right all of those episodes here are are very different from each other which i always find very cool yeah yeah i'm looking forward to the third

[01:18:33] season i expect that they'll continue with the you know to make it really really varied from all over the world yeah um okay well i look forward to talking about the other two hyper public episodes with you guys but uh for the listeners we'll let you go now

[01:18:51] if you're listening at the time of publishing then the next up in this feed is going to be the acolyte finale and then after that i'm going to start moving to releasing one episode every

[01:19:02] two weeks so first after the acolyte there's going to be a few more flashbacks filling in areas of the second and third eras of the timeline so see the show notes for more details

[01:19:14] and then i'm going to be setting up the fourth era the era of the pre-culture elegy and the clomor series and a bunch of good books and comics and stuff um so the part two of this vision series

[01:19:24] the hyper public episodes that's going to release in four weeks after this and that again is going to be covering a season one episode seven the elder which i recommend watching in japanese though if you watch in english david harber is one of the

[01:19:37] actors voice actors um and season two episode nine aosong which yeah it's that one's in english it's from south africa if you're listening to this episode in timeline order then the next episode is currently nights of the old republic with marchin so you'll hear more marchin up next

[01:19:57] on the gaming side and that one's also legends but as near to canon as legends gets and you're definitely going to want to know about the characters revan and kraya for later conversations and you'll hear us talk about you know we're just talking about scion and nighill

[01:20:13] either way the next episode after that will be canon myths of the old republic which i'm going to be recording with maryland r prokilo our favorite tokin scholar and we're going to be talking about the short story collections myths and fables and dark legends uh we're

[01:20:27] going to be talking about specific stories from that you can find that list in the show notes and the link to the blog post with all the overview of what's covered in what episode on this podcast

[01:20:38] on the wider lower hounds house of the dragon is in full effect three episodes a week for subscribers two for non-subscribers uh the interview with a vampire one shot is up definitely

[01:20:49] listen to at least the beginning with uh if you haven't watched the show then you know we talk about maybe you want to watch the show we talk about why that's a personal passion project

[01:20:59] of mine um we have rings and rituals is prepping you for rings of power and radio active ramblings will be back soon with the boys season wrap up and more fallout lore in the meantime sleep tight don't let the sith bite

[01:21:38] okay david this is where we're supposed to choose a side green or black john my soul is as black as night your turn i am black for life so we're not fighting i thought this is where hbo wanted us to like

[01:21:56] pick sides and fight and stuff don't worry i'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod but we seem to agree on one thing we both really like the show the politics the drama the lore

[01:22:07] it was made for the lore hounds and since we just finished recapping season one we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the dance of the dragons and with the season pass option in

[01:22:17] supercast listeners can get early ad-free access to each weekly scene by scene deep dive plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections see you in the lore hounds podcast feed each week for our dragonfire hot but probably positive takes the lore hounds house

[01:22:34] the dragon covers is also safe for team green consumption side effects may include a deeper understanding of dragon lore a heart and conflict with itself and an inescapable urge to read the book fire and blood by johar martin dragon seeds may experience burning