(FLASHBACK) EII: ep 5 – Canon folklore of the Old Republic, pt. 2 + TOR mailbag 1

[00:00:17] Hello, I'm Alicia and welcome to The Star Wars Canon Timeline Podcast.

[00:00:22] This week's episode of FLASHBACK EII the Old Republic plays 2 roles.

[00:00:26] First we begin with part 2 of mine Marilyn's discussion of Canon Star Wars folklore set

[00:00:32] in the Old Republic.

[00:00:33] Covering two more Sith stories, plus a she's divon in story about a member of the Wear Wolf

[00:00:38] of the opening Star Wars B.C.'s, we know what we're turning up in the show skeleton crew releasing

[00:00:42] December 2024.

[00:00:44] Then I talk through the first batch of Old Republic based feedback sent in by listeners

[00:00:49] maybe you.

[00:00:50] First with Dead I Jedi Bob and then with Marchin.

[00:00:53] I'll keep this into brief but a couple pieces of housekeeping first.

[00:00:56] First of all for the record this episode was recorded in four parts, the feedback session

[00:01:01] with Marchin was recorded July 16th, the one with Bob July 30th, my discussion with

[00:01:06] Marilyn August 19th and this intro and outro September 22nd all 2024.

[00:01:12] And the usual disclaimer applies, as far as we know everything we've said is accurate

[00:01:16] at the time of recording and I'll update you when and if any of this changes.

[00:01:21] Another important note, if you're listening as the episodes are released, you might

[00:01:25] have noticed that this is a flashback episode appearing at the end of the timeline in

[00:01:29] your feed rather than in the old Republic where it belongs.

[00:01:32] I've tried this flashback thing a few different ways now and it seems listeners prefer

[00:01:37] when it's released at the current moment in the feed as that most easily allows people

[00:01:41] to add it to their playlist.

[00:01:43] So I will do that and then when I release the next episode, usually about two weeks later,

[00:01:48] this episode will be back dated to the right part of the timeline so that if you're listening

[00:01:52] to this later, you will see this at the right place in the timeline and get to listen

[00:01:58] to it in the timeline order in comparison to the other episodes.

[00:02:01] And I will probably use the same release methodology for future flashback episodes but

[00:02:06] I would love to hear your feedback if you have thoughts.

[00:02:09] You can find the email, SW Timeline Podcast at gmail.com linked in the show notes.

[00:02:15] And Canon Patawan or Stories and Subscribers will of course always have this episode

[00:02:19] in release order in their subscriber feed.

[00:02:22] Also, quick note for Canon Patawan's and Stories and Watch Out in your subscriber feed

[00:02:27] for a spooked hobber bonus episode coming your way in October.

[00:02:31] Another Sith story, this one set in the Legends continuity about an infamous Sith

[00:02:36] Lord called Darth Nylis, who much and a night discussed in the night of the over public

[00:02:41] games episode.

[00:02:43] I'm going to share a story from the comics about him.

[00:02:46] But right now I've got some Sith stories for all listeners from the Canon timeline about

[00:02:51] the Sith Lord's Darth Noctis and Darth Ciberus.

[00:02:55] Let's bring Marilyn in to get that conversation started.

[00:03:00] Welcome back, Marilyn.

[00:03:02] We are back for part two of two of our myths of the old republic.

[00:03:07] Thank you for joining us again to we had a great conversation the first time so I'm excited

[00:03:12] to continue with more Sith stories, a wear wolf story.

[00:03:16] Yeah, no, I've got to be back thanks for keeping this going.

[00:03:19] It's going to be interesting a lot of fun.

[00:03:21] Yeah, so after we set the stage last time and anyone who hasn't listened yet I do recommend

[00:03:28] that you start there with we talked about the differences between myths,

[00:03:33] fables, fairy tales and legends which is again not to be confused with the Star Wars

[00:03:37] definition of legends as an extended universe context.

[00:03:40] Yeah, it does get confusing particularly in this.

[00:03:44] Does indeed.

[00:03:45] But yeah, we talked about a flood myth last time and we talked about two or first two

[00:03:50] myths about or Sith stories about a Sith Lord named Darth Caldoth.

[00:03:57] And we decided I think that those were mostly legends.

[00:04:03] Yes, I think first.

[00:04:04] The flood myth you called it a confidant.

[00:04:06] I think right.

[00:04:07] Because it clearly is the sort of thing that does not refer back to something that happened

[00:04:12] in history or could have happened in history.

[00:04:15] But since you have a specifically named Sith Lord and you have

[00:04:20] two stories about him.

[00:04:23] And the sort of thing where yes, you could pinpoint a place in history and say this is what

[00:04:26] happened and this is what happened and all that sort of thing.

[00:04:29] And he's referenced later in history so we know he existed.

[00:04:33] We don't know that the story is true but we know he was a real person or yeah.

[00:04:38] Yeah, so kind of like a very dark version of Robin Hood or something like that right?

[00:04:44] Yeah, because there's one that we're going to talk about today that is almost like a

[00:04:48] it almost has that fairy tale opening like literal reference to a princess.

[00:04:52] Yes, but then it's yeah, you would say it is no fairy tale.

[00:04:58] What no.

[00:05:01] No, I'm I have sit with Tolkien on this one that fairy tales have happy endings and that is the very

[00:05:06] important piece of their definition. Now people could bring up exceptions to that I'm sure

[00:05:11] but to my understanding if it doesn't have some kind of happy resolution then it's something

[00:05:17] else it's not quite a fairy tale.

[00:05:20] Yeah, it's all sad stories today.

[00:05:23] Yeah, which actually I'll have some things to think about about that too.

[00:05:29] Yeah, it was interesting that this is said so this is again in the old Republic so

[00:05:34] the Sith stories at least we know that they must be said after 5,000 because of BBY before

[00:05:41] they original movie because that's when Sith came into being they splintered off in the Jedi

[00:05:45] and form their own order and at least one of them before the rule of two which was about 4,000

[00:05:52] years later. So but this is the old Republic. This is a time we barely know anything about in canon

[00:06:00] we're literally scrounging through myths and legends to find out there's three kind of like our

[00:06:06] world digging through the rag bag of story. So today we're picking up with three more stories

[00:06:15] from George Man's book Dark Legends which was released in 2019 and the stories we're going to talk

[00:06:20] about today are life immortal blood moon the sleep of ages and the last one is an extra story

[00:06:28] from the special target edition released in 2020 so that one's a bit harder to find.

[00:06:34] But we will talk you through all of them. Two of these are also says stories featuring female

[00:06:40] Sith lords who find unique solutions to the immortality question. So we'll talk about those first

[00:06:45] and then we're going to finish with blood moon which is a wear-wolf story of sorts or rather I should

[00:06:50] say a mad she's divon in story I don't mean to malign his pieces. Did you see that

[00:06:58] there's a she's divon in the upcoming show skeleton crew. I had caught that detail you know I'm still

[00:07:06] yeah no they were just a tease tim in the trailer and the and at I think D23 it was so also my

[00:07:14] ignorance of front by saying is this the same type of being as I'm liking on this name sorry folks

[00:07:23] Zeb you mean Zeb yeah yeah so he's the she's divon and is the is the wear wolfy one

[00:07:30] and then there was another one like Zeb will so we'll talk about a lasat so we'll talk about

[00:07:36] the lasat but also yes it sorry the followers all lasat lovers everywhere and since yeah

[00:07:42] you know Zeb you know why he was strong enough to fight him off for the other right yeah

[00:07:49] so yes again for these these are canon stories but that doesn't mean that they're true

[00:07:55] they are stories that would have been passed down um I don't know would you say there are legends today

[00:08:04] probably I'm kind of I'm kind of more interested in exploring the question of

[00:08:09] who's telling them into who and to why mm-hmm okay okay because I mean yes as we said

[00:08:15] clearly the two cis stories legends because potentially historical where will stories mm

[00:08:23] right that probably I mean it could be based on some historical actual planet that had the

[00:08:32] kinds of right effects that we're gonna be hearing about but it's the wear wolf piece that kind of

[00:08:45] I think that's how the author describes it yeah is it oh interesting I thought on that

[00:08:51] no I I think the folktale is a better description because you do get

[00:08:55] folktale stories about you know on on this planet wolves and how they behave and

[00:09:01] I almost I don't know if maybe they were concerned that wolves were too much like humans and so

[00:09:07] they had to create this alternative scary thing the problem of course is that wolves

[00:09:13] almost never attack humans no a trailer sick or their pups are threatened or something like that

[00:09:20] they flee humans they stay hidden they have packs they care for their children I mean

[00:09:25] that they're lovely wonderful creatures absolutely and I think the story of the

[00:09:29] wear wolf developed a period of time when humans had started to venture further into forests

[00:09:35] we're clearing areas we're trying to you know find extra land which always seems to be the basis

[00:09:41] of wealth eventually and encountering wolves you know entering their territory and deciding to

[00:09:49] take it over and make it quote unquote safe but you tell where wolf stories so your youngest

[00:09:55] children are not gonna go wandering off in the woods you know it's again cautionary tale perhaps

[00:10:00] right right it's a they're predator stories you know be where the big bad world outside yeah

[00:10:08] yeah and it also interestingly enough the word wolf is used in some ultramanic cultures

[00:10:14] to describe a male outcast from society right alone forced to live

[00:10:22] outside the safe balance of community and is therefore a wolf who praise upon community

[00:10:28] and so there's that kind of connection there maybe that is what led to this notion of a

[00:10:32] wolf under no BS yeah always blame the people they shoved out in the first place you've heard of a

[00:10:39] scapegoat heavy yeah okay but before we get deeper into the wear wolf story we're gonna start with

[00:10:46] the two cis stories talk about them a bit together because they both feature female lords who find

[00:10:53] different forms of immortality for better or worse and yeah as I said they're set between 5,000 and

[00:11:00] 1,000 bb y because of cis stories the first at least the second could be set later it's unclear

[00:11:08] because it's uh yeah but I'm guessing before that because she's apparently going out and

[00:11:15] checking things out in the galaxy in between being all city fighting people so yeah it must be before

[00:11:21] the rule of two kicked in so yeah we have a life immortal and the sleep of ages which is from

[00:11:29] target edition of dark legends the second one and to summarize a life immortal plot Darth

[00:11:36] Nautis was a very powerful Sith who could have conquered the entire galaxy but she became focused on

[00:11:41] another goal immortality she searched for long lost knowledge in relics eventually making her

[00:11:47] way to the Sith world of exagal for months she explored the deep ruins eventually finding a mutated

[00:11:53] feral beast of a man in the deaths the creature knew what she sought and led her deeper into the

[00:11:58] citadel eventually reaching a chamber the chamber contained the records of Darth Sangus who had

[00:12:05] achieved the immortality Nautis sought. The creature served Nautis as she studied these records until

[00:12:11] she was eventually ready to perform the ritual herself the creatures last service to her would be

[00:12:16] as she thought a non-voluntary sacrifice but the creature seemed understand this and offered

[00:12:23] himself up to her knife she plunged her dagger into his heart as their chamber sparks with energy

[00:12:28] she felt invigorated as her body started to shift and change as the energy flowed into her

[00:12:33] but joy became anguish as her body convulsed and her spine twisted. Nautis awoke some time later

[00:12:39] seeing the lifeless body of the creature with the wicked grin on its face realizing it had known

[00:12:45] she had followed in the footsteps of Darth Sangus and she was now just like him a grotesque version

[00:12:51] of her former self cursed to take to eat out a painful lonely existence in the bowels of

[00:12:55] exagal until she could find another Sith to put her out of her misery. What did you think of

[00:13:01] this story overall? Um kind of spooky kind of gruesome um it really made me ask

[00:13:11] how are we defining immortality right exactly and why do you want it? What do we envision it to be

[00:13:20] and how are we going to be within it? Yeah and I can jump in hell bit here. I can see this story

[00:13:31] being told to Jedi Younglings right as an example of you know why you don't want to be a Sith

[00:13:40] kind of thing but also it could be a good starting point for conversation about what would we mean

[00:13:46] my immortality right and you know living forever and you know are are we going to talk

[00:13:53] the way every character did on any recent TV series about the joy of becoming well with the force

[00:14:00] and being able to witness that and so on and so on. Right yeah of course there's some all these

[00:14:04] other things that we've seen so far this is just a completely different notion of what immortality needs

[00:14:09] right. Now I hadn't considered you you've made a very good point about how it could be a story of

[00:14:15] warning like don't become a Sith because you are seeking this but you will really be punished yourself

[00:14:21] and that makes a lot of sense maybe even more sense than what I was thinking which although there's

[00:14:26] also I think a certain sense in what I'm my theory was that it was a Sith story passed down to

[00:14:34] people away from Exegole. Yeah I can absolutely see that too but sooner later if it got

[00:14:40] around at the Jedi you know they could they could make use of it as well. Right I really enjoyed

[00:14:46] that Exegole appears in this because it was something I knew. I know where that is. I know

[00:14:52] what happens on that one. So for anyone who doesn't know Exegole it's a dark desert planet it

[00:14:57] was once fertile as a lot of Sith planets were. It's in the unknown region so it's this is an

[00:15:03] area of space it's very difficult to navigate making it difficult to get there and it's an

[00:15:09] important world for the Sith dating back to ancient times it's a hideout of sorts and it plays

[00:15:13] a big role in the sequel trilogy. Yeah so they the only way that they could be kids it's in the

[00:15:24] Sith wayfinder so it's shaped like a hologram which I talked about as like a data bank but this is

[00:15:33] specifically designed to unlock the unknown region so that makes it extra hard to find Exegole.

[00:15:39] It's through something called the red honeycomb zone which is also known in the as the

[00:15:54] being through into the unknown regions without these special Sith wayfinders like a death sentence

[00:15:59] basically. So are all the Sith wayfinders set just to find Exegole or do you think as well?

[00:16:08] I think there might be one maybe two sets of Exegole that we've seen in the lore.

[00:16:17] Yeah we've seen two. We've seen two. Yeah but I don't know if those are the same because it

[00:16:23] would be like a complex one. Yeah sure sure the shape of it has always reminded me of the very

[00:16:30] very thick glass I'll call them tiny port holes that are put into the wooden side, the side

[00:16:39] of the ship or wooden ship that they're almost pyramid but not quite I think the idea is to let

[00:16:46] in some light right without having to have any further mechanism to make it lighter in the

[00:16:54] the whole of the ship and the bow holes of the ship. Right I very beautiful things you see them

[00:16:59] used as paper weights and things now. Yeah yeah we just just chose that knock this like really

[00:17:06] had to search high and low for a way to get there but again that almost an echoing of ships

[00:17:13] voyaging. Right seeking things and needing light to find the way although I don't suppose that the Sith

[00:17:18] would necessarily use the light analogy. The dark to find the way I don't know yeah in the power

[00:17:27] on the Force. And from the story to quote the story it says Exegole's a belated place and

[00:17:34] it's atmosphere charged with fierce electrical storms it's surface ravaged by the excavations

[00:17:40] carried out there by the Sith. It's basically they just like studied this planet to death which is

[00:17:46] kind of very human actually I just think about early Egypt Egyptology especially. Oh yeah well

[00:17:53] the amount of information that they didn't know definitely exceeded the amount of information that

[00:17:58] they did know which was miniscule and a lot of it incorrect anyway. Yeah yeah it's how do you

[00:18:07] course Tolkien's answer to that was Gandalf someone who breaks a thing to find out what his

[00:18:14] made of his left hand wisdom. That's kind of a Sith way I guess yeah how much of this story do you

[00:18:23] think might be factual? Well Exegole right that's exist and I'm pretty sure we've also had

[00:18:30] like callouts to knock this too when they were listing Sith names in later periods. So

[00:18:38] knocktices is Canon is having existed in the way that Darth yes called if it's okay okay

[00:18:44] or at least a legend known legend yeah as for the rest of it I mean if they read Lord of the Rings

[00:18:53] they'd know about go on. That's what I just kept thinking what this creature's like oh golly!

[00:19:01] beautiful offering sacrifice for the self-ass sacrifice sort of I mean in a very twisted

[00:19:06] moon. Well I should say that the illustrations for both of these books we were talking to about last

[00:19:12] episode in this episode were done by Grant Griffin. Do you want to read what he said about this

[00:19:18] illustration the purple text? Sure he says as this story was one of the last to be added

[00:19:24] and due to approaching print deadlines since I had to proceed with the illustration

[00:19:28] without knowing who more what the main character's work. What I did know was that this story

[00:19:34] took place on Exegole and was going to have a strong Dr Frankenstein and Igor vibe. At the time

[00:19:41] I only had the trailer visuals to go off of inspired by a screenshot I built up the scene and shroud

[00:19:47] our Sith and the hood to hide their identity with a bit of force lightning to showcase the villain's

[00:19:53] power I was able to increase the drama in the composition. A curved saber was added later and if

[00:19:59] I'm not mistaken is specific to a particular Sith. So yeah so that's I guess basically what we know

[00:20:06] about Darth Noctis is that she somehow has a curved red light saber which I find fascinating

[00:20:12] because it's a classic medieval trope for sermons. Sermons the the Simitar the curved sword

[00:20:21] okay oh right okay almost always stood in his a symbol for what they called sermons what we would call

[00:20:28] muslim or Arabs or wars right right I'm just speaking around time at the Crusades

[00:20:35] I wonder if anyone who speaks Arabic sees any link with the word Noctis?

[00:20:39] About be interesting to know yeah I mean it's a it's there's a it almost sounds a little Latin to me like

[00:20:46] Nocturnal oh yeah that's what I thought that's what I thought but um no the Simitar definitely says

[00:20:52] the curved lightsaber I should say definitely so Simitar to me which in the wider culture I think just

[00:20:59] means okay the sword of the other okay over there wanting to define that and talking does the same

[00:21:06] thing he gives Simitar's to the works my my brain went to science even though I know better and

[00:21:12] I'm like how does it hold a curve right now that was my first question I accepted the lightwix but no

[00:21:23] so this is a description of the Igor like character from the story and Grant again Griffin sorry

[00:21:32] the illustrator had not read this um when he drew the illustration but it does match up perfectly

[00:21:38] it says it's spying as twisted at an unusual angle called singing it to hunch forward so that

[00:21:42] its left shoulder dipped almost to its knees its flesh was palette and translucent

[00:21:47] shriveled and wrinkled so that it's immense age was evident but unreadable

[00:21:52] it's stringy hair fell in strands down the side of its face limp and thick with grime

[00:21:57] it war only rags that might once have been fashioned as close so yeah very gallum indeed

[00:22:04] darling gallum and even in the image sorry to listeners who can't see it but the image matches

[00:22:12] I description exactly yeah I mean it really looks like gallum in his movements and motion and everything

[00:22:18] I do wonder if he did the illustration first and then George Man went back in there and

[00:22:24] just happened to me well I think the gallum image is probably much more in the zeitgeist than

[00:22:34] Igor is now I mean at one point you know or I go or if you like right I'm definitely

[00:22:40] would have been a go too but in this case you know that image in particular just cemented gallum

[00:22:47] for me yeah which is ironic I run like well yeah it's kind of like the anti-gallum in a way

[00:22:55] yeah exactly pat the way from redemption hmm is I also found interesting dark noxis is philosophy

[00:23:03] that she she was like I don't want it's kind of she and also the next set for going to be talking about

[00:23:10] this idea like what's the point of conquering the world if I'm not around to enjoy being queen of

[00:23:19] everything and that seems like they're drive for searching for immortality first I have so many years

[00:23:28] and I want to create more more than I want to do something with the years I was granted

[00:23:35] I guess in both cases well at least in this story the idea is that they don't really know

[00:23:42] how they are going to be existing forever yeah they certainly don't envision

[00:23:49] this outcome for them so after they've done this spell and you know got me immortality so that's

[00:23:57] another reason why I really don't think this is a Sith story I mean to certainly amalphsith but

[00:24:03] right it has such a clear and the moral of this story is wishing for immortality will bring you

[00:24:09] nothing but suffering right I mean and I would argue I tend to be drawn to stories it talk about

[00:24:14] legacies the real immortality yeah yeah um the notion how you know sure if you can't enjoy them forever

[00:24:23] you you might get missed about that but if you can't enjoy them at all yeah what's the point

[00:24:30] yeah um maybe the galaxy looked out though the fact that she was like no I want something more

[00:24:36] than conquering all you fools well sure I mean even uh entropy tells us that you know things are

[00:24:45] falling apart all the time you know the laws of the universe um nothing less forever yeah

[00:24:52] sooner or later but here we have a a specific example of how that might in fact take place

[00:24:58] but she's just going to have to wait and hope some other dumb Sith comes along and tries to do

[00:25:06] the same thing but of course I can't be dumb because of all the intelligence it's required to

[00:25:10] figure all this stuff out right yeah I love how the story ends it is a very creepy ending uh

[00:25:16] not as had given her entire life and pursuit of the secret of immortality ignoring all else

[00:25:22] sundering entire worlds and her quest to live forever and now the voice is whispered that she had

[00:25:27] earned which she had so long desired she was as close to immortality as one could be

[00:25:32] destined to live the life undying and yet unable to truly live yeah boom boom boom yeah I mean

[00:25:40] definitely I see I think there maybe is a don't become a Sith warning in there more than like

[00:25:47] leave ex ago alone warning it well I think you can see both yeah Jedi don't want the other Jedi

[00:25:56] to but with a darkest one of the darkest planets in the galaxy out there sure sure because who knows

[00:26:02] what else might be there right in terms of technology or other there's sorts of things

[00:26:08] and that this is very basic statement in the beginning of explaining why she was doing all this

[00:26:15] she desired one thing above all others the perpetuation of her own life and right there you have a

[00:26:22] classic statement of yes your life is important and so is everyone else's and if you're only

[00:26:35] you know that you're limited right you know so how long is long enough for you right if nothing

[00:26:43] is enough except forever well okay I mean you're gonna do it alone I don't know I mean I guess

[00:26:49] she'd been alone that's far because we don't even hear of her having because a lot of Sith in

[00:26:55] their quest for immortality they basically get a research assistant to they teach out of fight

[00:27:00] and she we didn't hear anything about her having an apprentice I don't I don't picture that

[00:27:07] from the face that we got no I don't think she felt she had time for it she had more important things

[00:27:12] to do me that it has always puzzled me about the rule too is how can you be so sure that

[00:27:20] in of course you can't because the expectation is right is to kill you anyway right um so if you're

[00:27:30] amazing if you think about it the rule of two went on for a thousand years after Darth Bane started to this I

[00:27:36] get this would be before that I guess you know when there's more Sith out there so if some Sith

[00:27:40] want to be lone wolf I guess they can do their thing but then you think for a thousand years it was

[00:27:47] imperative that each Sith did choose an apprentice to pass it on or else the order just would have died

[00:27:54] yeah I mean that I've been in a question that more and more um as other stories of the

[00:28:03] stories universe have been told you know at one point we thought well the order 66 I'm my

[00:28:11] spelling way too many things here with your time oh yeah no we can't talk about order 66 I'll

[00:28:16] bleep that out but this is the climatic event from the end of the pre-growth yeah I won't follow

[00:28:23] okay I'm gonna recommend that because there's too much spoilers to appear well maybe I can just say

[00:28:30] the one thing we know is that even those who tried to destroy all the Jedi can't quite manage it

[00:28:37] because the universe is a very big place and again I see alone is a very big place so

[00:28:41] right what to say there is something in legends where there's a lost tribe of Sith which is basically

[00:28:47] before the ruler too was implemented or like a group got maroon somewhere basically informed

[00:28:53] their society and stuff and they pop up later so I could definitely see something like that

[00:28:58] happening in canon as well yeah I just don't see how the Sith could be certain that all the Sith

[00:29:05] were destroyed right yeah even if they had been there's still enough Sith lore lying around

[00:29:12] presumably except when drawn to the dark side to say hey I'm gonna start at my own says

[00:29:16] ever talking about all these stories about Sith like planet hopping around the galaxy looking for

[00:29:21] old Sith temples it's out there yeah yeah so where do they all come from and did they have

[00:29:26] apprentices I don't think so I don't know maybe yeah some of them called themselves new names like

[00:29:33] you know the the Ren right right yes I'm definitely looking for it to learning more about the whole

[00:29:40] thing I hope we get that yeah yeah any other quotes or ideas you wanted to shout out

[00:29:48] from this story I found it interesting that this feral beast calls her mistress

[00:29:54] what did you think of that I I have to say I did block pretty early on how this was probably going to end

[00:30:02] and I think that that is one of the reasons I thought that that was like mocking in a way oh okay

[00:30:09] okay interesting yeah just being you know because she's so unbelievably arrogant like yeah

[00:30:19] she's like you don't say it's insanely arrogant and again this could be this is a folk tale

[00:30:27] this could be an exaggeration but most likely is but yeah um she just really lying is blinded by her own

[00:30:34] again so all he has to do is like kiss up to her and the slight possible way and she'll just fall into

[00:30:41] the trap I mean that that is a common Sith trope I think of you know ha you thought that you had

[00:30:49] overcome me but really this is what it is like them fall I mean that they you could do get a

[00:30:55] bit of that going on and I love this sentence there amongst the glorious mess with the

[00:31:03] answers she had sought for so long yeah glorious mess I guess one person's glorious mess isn't

[00:31:10] another person task they have to clean up I live in a glorious mess now I'm a I'm with you I mean they say

[00:31:19] they say that creatives usually have glorious mess is and they work better and create better

[00:31:23] than they have glorious messes around and so everything has to be at hand even if it means duplicates

[00:31:29] around the house it interests me how often a Sith Lord eventually has themself in a position where they say

[00:31:44] I force saw it you know I you followed step by step in the plan that I laid out for you to follow

[00:31:54] and so we get that's why I wonder if it was a Sith story because you know it still has that

[00:32:01] tone of like see how smart see how smart it could be I mean by the time you get high up and in the

[00:32:12] ladder of Sith knowledge I suppose that becomes your focus more than you know would you rather be

[00:32:23] just think that the quote that you read early on here you know she was as close to immortality

[00:32:30] as one can be destined to live a life undying and yet unable to truly live that doesn't sound like a Sith

[00:32:36] world to me maybe it was a really a story and this is a Jedi version of it you know that's true

[00:32:42] and they were taking the same basic folk tale and drawing different conclusions from it yeah and that

[00:32:48] happens too I think you know in our world yeah across his lines for sure because you know a lot of the

[00:32:55] Sith will be secretly infiltrated in the Jedi and what might pass those stories back for sure

[00:33:00] sure yeah and then somebody interprets a different night all right so let's contrast it with the other

[00:33:08] story they sleep of ages which again from the target exclusive edition so sorry about that

[00:33:14] super annoying don't do that it's annoying for people who live abroad but I have to really thank the

[00:33:19] person who helped me get my hands on this um so the summary of the story is according to legend

[00:33:24] they're existed a tomb of a beloved princess on a moon in the far reaches of wild space

[00:33:29] filled with treasures from a vast forgotten empire and archaeologist named Lorth was one of many

[00:33:35] to become fascinated with the story scouring the galaxy for clues to the location of the tomb

[00:33:41] which led her to look for a non-existent moon of the planet salonis before landing on a small planet

[00:33:47] toy named salonis first one scla and us the place first she actually went sla and i ss so yeah

[00:33:58] easy to confuse them thank it was s a l a and i sorry what i said um but okay so she landed there with a

[00:34:09] assistant and began to excavate and after months of failure they finally found an ancient tomb

[00:34:14] buried in a hillside inside were the treasures they were seeking but more surprisingly there was a woman

[00:34:20] preserved in a slab of carbonite presumably the legendary princess in the days of followed

[00:34:26] while her team cataloged to the relics lorth became increasingly drawn to the carbonite slab eventually

[00:34:32] not knowing why she found herself activating the slab's controls lorth was thrilled to find the

[00:34:38] quote princess inside was still alive until stepping out of her entoment entoment the figure

[00:34:44] released a stream of lightning from her hand it was a Sith Lord named Darth Cybers who had devised

[00:34:51] her own method of immortality she'd spread tales around the galaxy about a wealthy princess in her

[00:34:56] vast empire and every few generations the tale would lure a treasure's secret to her tomb

[00:35:02] and she would drain her newest victims of their life thus keeping herself young and beautiful as she

[00:35:07] searched the galaxy for a worthy foe until the next time she decided it was time to sleep in

[00:35:13] weight for the next era for a hero worth conquering so yeah i said Darth noctis each

[00:35:21] or heart out Darth Cybers got the empire and immortality so her empire did indeed crumble

[00:35:27] without her but the stories live on so she got that kind of immortality as well what do you think about

[00:35:33] yeah Darth Cybers and comparison with Darth noctis well i kind of missed the the

[00:35:41] brief line there that says you know she would drain the victims of life thus keeping yourself

[00:35:46] young and beautiful as she searched the galaxy for a worthy foe i mean it's such a short bit

[00:35:53] that it really missed because yeah that was very quick at the end yeah and again i was thinking

[00:35:59] well you know okay your immortal but you're immortal and carbonite so what fun is that i mean

[00:36:05] as console alright right she's sleeping through most of her immortality but waiting yes

[00:36:11] and talk about beauty sleep yeah in that way you know i i it's like someone who is

[00:36:19] gets um but when you call it cryogenic freezing in our world oh yeah in the hope but at least

[00:36:26] carbonite you have a much better assurance that you're going to wake up i'm gonna wake up

[00:36:30] yes it's the technology has been proven so that yeah you can set that thing aside

[00:36:36] so carbonite of course is something we see in the original trilogy um and it is basically

[00:36:42] it's carbon freezing and it's the ultimate form of preservation because it's it's basically it's

[00:36:48] better than the cryoprecious in our world but it's still deemed somewhat dangerous so no spoiler

[00:36:54] about the original trilogy but there's a character who goes into a carbonite slab and a memorable

[00:36:58] sequence and there's you know the line like well uh there's a little worry that the character

[00:37:04] might not make it but it was used by early spacers so even before the skip and the gallion story

[00:37:12] they talked about in the canon ancient midst of a of a two um and so the early spacers would use it

[00:37:19] to preserve themselves for long voyages before there were hybrid drives they got them their faster

[00:37:24] and this would often leave to hibernation sickness so it's not exactly like

[00:37:31] beauty sleep per se she's probably she probably wakes up feeling a little ike in disoriented like

[00:37:37] bad jet lag well unless she's figured out a remedy for that you know clever solidity she certainly

[00:37:43] could have yeah clever syntheticy but I don't you have this is a long time ago who knows maybe

[00:37:50] she did by the way in legends she the the craft where dark side fault called formed by

[00:37:58] the descendants of um Empress Teta who is a mythical emperor warriors and and they took over

[00:38:04] the system that was originally known as the core system known as the Empress Teta system

[00:38:08] and this is where carbonite comes from so this might have happened maybe even before the story

[00:38:14] we're talking about today they did keep their enemies his trophies on the wall so I don't know if

[00:38:19] there's she had any drumming any special relationship with that planet or just ravaged it for

[00:38:26] their yeah for their carbonite um but in later times yeah technology people do not use this

[00:38:33] unless they're certain crime lords who don't really care whether their bouncy lives are dying

[00:38:39] but they're certain bounty hunters who don't care to be right bothered by the mounties

[00:38:45] that they have captured yeah exactly um yeah but it's mostly used in later times for like industrial

[00:38:52] transportation to keep volatile things ready right that that point was made clear and in the

[00:38:59] the second of the three original trilogy film yeah and it is yeah so this the temple the set

[00:39:06] temple we see here is in wild space so I do wonder if any future lore might link this and the Darth

[00:39:13] Ryan and this story that we talked about last time um because they didn't name the temple in that one

[00:39:19] but it was also a moon and wild space hmm well you know I'm thinking of traditional

[00:39:27] start to legends fairy tales and so forth you know long ago and far away once time as far away

[00:39:36] as a cellar to use the earth sea example so you could say you know in in the fabled system

[00:39:43] of Empress Tetra or something like that right we didn't just indicate in general a long time ago

[00:39:49] and a galaxy far far away well Empress Tetra exists but yeah in the selonis and selonis or however

[00:39:54] they're pronounced they're inventions for this story well I mean you and I know it existed but you

[00:40:00] could pause it cultures or planets or whatever where they didn't necessarily know they just

[00:40:05] over her to space or talking about it sometime and had no clue what was and just said okay as far away

[00:40:10] is whatever that's like we we grew up saying timbuck too which is a real city but like we didn't

[00:40:15] know anything about it just far away precisely yeah exactly right exactly right um I'll have to

[00:40:22] point out that lore the archaeology archaeologist character is a theland which is like Jackie from

[00:40:29] the archaeologists have to be them so theland's are known for their head horns they have like three

[00:40:35] horns on each side of their temples sticking out and they're like colorful with some spotted skin

[00:40:41] yeah just pointing that out the similarity between the word theland and feline hmm

[00:40:47] although the zagarians are more have like well they couldn't be too obvious about it could they yeah

[00:40:55] so who do you think is telling this story do you think this is because this one kind of

[00:41:01] paint tern a more victorious light but it's also I feel almost to me like a campfire ghost story

[00:41:10] well you're switching the hero character if you will have the viewpoint character from the archaeologist

[00:41:17] to the Sith lady hmm so who is that real hero right and what was the intention I mean

[00:41:27] the fact that that the lanylady found what she sought for so many years

[00:41:35] isn't in and of itself a kind of an accomplishment but it could also be the sort of

[00:41:41] careful what you ask for because you just might get it sort of thing right right or a parental warning

[00:41:47] they could have passed around you know during a time when there's a lot of people

[00:41:53] exploring and disappearing into wild space or into the edges of off the map sure sure so oh

[00:42:00] you want to be a space explorer well listen to this story about this space explorer right

[00:42:05] just just for a little in parental insurance here before you go off in the wild do know that

[00:42:10] might not end well for you yeah be careful who you idolize or what you idolize but like

[00:42:15] right right right um yeah it is I mean I was I'm getting a lot of Indiana Jones sorts of

[00:42:24] vibes yeah from this I don't know if the archaeologist was going to go back and give lectures

[00:42:31] and teach people about strange cultures that they found but it's felt personal in there

[00:42:38] yeah also there's the whole don't push a button unless you know what's going to happen right

[00:42:44] she's seeing this thing there um it'd be the Pandora's box going on you know she had to wake up

[00:42:49] whoever was inside there it's also taking all the treasures in the knowledge and and left yeah

[00:42:55] it's also it's a good bookie man story because it's like cibris could still be out there

[00:43:00] hmm sure ready to snatch bad little children yeah so again legend but um I don't know I guess

[00:43:10] I tend to think that you know the original children's stories might just be about their own planets first

[00:43:17] yeah but I don't have the I don't live in a galaxy in which there is this

[00:43:22] multi planetary perspective so um so there is another of reference to there's an artifact

[00:43:30] called the hand of cibris and um I have to assume that it's connected with this character we

[00:43:36] talked about in the last episode how uh the writer of these stories George Mann is a collaborates

[00:43:42] with Kevin Scott who's another really prolific star wars writer even more prolific star wars writer

[00:43:47] and um so this is in a path of vengeance is a hyper public phase two book so it's one of the ones

[00:43:54] that I'm going to be talking about with uh it's actually I think was it one of Jones' favorite ones

[00:44:00] no path of deceit I think anyway um but in that book there is a forbidden ancient

[00:44:07] Sith artifact a gauntlets which is kept in a vault on jetta which is the planet it's in Rogue One

[00:44:14] where all these different types of forces users gather and um yeah so that seems to be

[00:44:22] confirming her as real or at least real legend this is a genuine legend we have established

[00:44:34] somebody else was telling the story before I told it to you

[00:44:39] anything else you wanted to shout out about this story well again if you're candid in mortality

[00:44:47] all you're going to do with it is just try to find the world's best hero and kill them I mean

[00:44:55] it's I don't know how much consciousness you have when you're in carbonite so I mean it

[00:45:01] be one thing if she could be you know frozen there at her carbonite throne be able to watch

[00:45:06] and hear and take a ha ha waiting till you come over here and I think yeah I think she's out

[00:45:11] no no I do too I yeah my understanding of carbonite preases that you are definitely out of it

[00:45:17] and the fact that she can even respond so quickly after being released from it

[00:45:22] it says at least that she's learned more about it because of other things that we learn about

[00:45:28] you're saying about a high-bronition sickness yeah yeah I mean um I guess

[00:45:36] it's it speaks to the idea you know with people people set goals for themselves and they say

[00:45:42] if or I mean it's not even as healthy as goals that people will set these mile poles for

[00:45:49] themselves and they will say if I achieve this thing then my life will be valid and I will have

[00:45:57] achieved you know Nirvana for filaments and actually in the Buddhist world come out and say no no no no

[00:46:02] this is the opposite exactly this is some sort of the help my friend right

[00:46:09] because you are utterly attached and trapped in your own uh in your own creation I mean maybe

[00:46:18] she never she's never going to be happy that's for sure um but maybe she gets to at least see

[00:46:25] the future at some point I hope when she comes out she at least like goes out and has a good look

[00:46:29] around hey well if all she's looking for in her good look around is okay where's the biggest

[00:46:35] bully that I can now you know cut down to size that's really self-gatherably fulfilling life to be

[00:46:45] you know we're even a half life the moment that boys and those touch their lives

[00:46:52] any other thoughts on this story or the Sith stories again it's it's an interesting

[00:47:02] thing to me that they're positing a galactic culture in which people travel around a lot and go

[00:47:10] to different in strange places and yet it almost seems to be saying don't we do curious be careful

[00:47:18] where you start poking into stuff make sure that what you're looking for is in fact something

[00:47:23] worth looking for um you know was was the archaeologist hoping to become

[00:47:31] famous for their knowledge or rich beyond their dreams or you know what what was it that was driving them

[00:47:39] on I mean I suppose you could argue just answering questions right is it's a word go as a scholar

[00:47:46] but some of your personal obsession was to figure this out yeah wanting to prove that it was a true story

[00:47:53] but I can't understand the end she doesn't get to do that it's like looking for it

[00:47:57] dentist and then drowning when you find it you're right very good analogy yes I agree

[00:48:03] oh Laura Thresston piece, Ciberis I've been very good this year please don't come get me

[00:48:10] well if you're not going out looking for I don't think you're really need to worry about her

[00:48:14] oh I don't know this is my danger is like I I relate too much with Faust you know I

[00:48:21] what would I not do for knowledge okay this is a good spot for a quick break when we come back

[00:48:30] we've got not only a mad cheese devanin story for you but also our first over public mail bag

[00:48:35] with thoughts from the community talked you in a sec

[00:48:58] the last story we're going to talk about we're bringing away from the stories this one does have

[00:49:03] more of a dark fairy tale dark folklore feeling yes definitely this is our quote unquote

[00:49:12] wear wolf story blood moon and this has got to take place during or after a Darth Baines time

[00:49:21] during the inflammation of the world too it probably actually takes place at the start of the

[00:49:26] high republic or the very end of the old republic so set much later than the other ones we've talked

[00:49:31] about but still centuries before the accolades or even the books that we're going to be talking about

[00:49:39] and then the reason I know this is because the story says that the astronomical anomaly

[00:49:43] that drives a story didn't exist through at least most of the over public

[00:49:47] seems to be something that happened later in the old republic so the summary is a human woman named

[00:49:55] Fion Tukat was once led an expedition to the moon of loophole to study the civilization that

[00:50:01] was once flourished there she was joined by two excavation droids designated HTC 10 and RFV5

[00:50:08] a woman named Romina Foss a one eyed the sat called borazel a Toguta named cavolo sis

[00:50:16] and quarters frack a shistavarian a race that resembled what we know as wearwolves and appearance

[00:50:22] but not generally temperament loophole was said to have been a paradise where a great

[00:50:27] civilization flourished until the dying start orbited cracked its pure chyber core causing

[00:50:33] vast solar flares of radiation of dark side radiation the red flares were said to twist people's

[00:50:40] minds but this did not dissuade two-coats expedition however as they set up camp the eerie light

[00:50:46] didn't need seem to affect all of their moods the normally gentle and calm vrack seemed to be

[00:50:51] affected by it more intensely a minor disagreement about who was going to take first watch

[00:50:56] resulted in a fight between borazel and frack eventually sis and Tukat were able to settle things

[00:51:02] down and the team called it a night however come morning there were signs of a struggle

[00:51:07] borazel was missing and his blaster was discarded on the ground the next evening borazel

[00:51:13] was still missing and the crimson flares were continuing to intensify. frack became transfixed

[00:51:19] on the light and an rage began to attack the team HCT 10 and sis were the first to succumb to the

[00:51:25] beast that vrack had become foss and Tukat fled into the ruins from their former friend

[00:51:31] but vrack fell upon Tukat as foss ran toward the safety of their ship borazel returned slamming

[00:51:37] into vrack. Foss and rfu five powered up the ship is borazel and vrack fought borazel knocked

[00:51:43] vrack down and made it to the ship before it took off. As the ship left the moon vrack

[00:51:49] left howling on the surface a new solar flare reached into the supposedly safe cockpit

[00:51:55] and borazel looked toward foss with his lips drawn back in a feral snarle.

[00:52:05] So loop all this planet is an invention for the story allegedly went home to a great civilization

[00:52:14] we already touched a little bit on the species and I don't want to over-well me with too many

[00:52:18] species at once but just to run through the characters in the story so we have fion Tukat

[00:52:24] and remina foss or human. We have the two excavation droids HTC 10 and rfu five so the excavation

[00:52:34] droids are a new type of droid which it makes sense for archaeology and we have cavirolo sys

[00:52:42] he's a Tukruta which is the same species as isisosoka and yeah we talked about borazel isilis

[00:52:48] like zeb from rebels and we've got vrack our she's divonan or wolf like one.

[00:52:56] So the she's divonan they're there where wolf like in appearance they have clawed paws,

[00:53:02] red or yellow glowing eyes but they are generally you know peaceful they're

[00:53:08] personable um they show up throughout the canon as background characters they have them uh

[00:53:14] there was actually a she's divonan in the background in the original film but then was cut out

[00:53:20] in later versions I guess because he looked a little slucky. Was he in the bar?

[00:53:25] Okay that makes sense and um and now but now yeah we have this story this is one of the most prominent

[00:53:32] stories in canon now but we also have them showing up in the background in hover public books

[00:53:38] things like that so and we're getting a she's divonan character in skeleton crew apparently so

[00:53:44] exciting. They are from the forested world of venaprim in the outer rim so this is a world of forest

[00:53:52] and vast oceans and cave systems like I want to move there and uh in legends they were

[00:54:00] partially the product of genetic engineering and politically isolationist but that's legend so

[00:54:05] could be true might not be true. I guess politically isolationist part would explain why we

[00:54:14] don't see that many of them and um yeah so we'll we'll get a character but that that's in era

[00:54:23] seven the Mandalorian era in skeleton crew so I know some people prefer the baby grogu dating

[00:54:29] system to the BBY. So but that's that's centuries after this so what did you think of

[00:54:39] this story overall well it's an interesting story to be recording about on the day of a full moon

[00:54:46] right I it's a super super super moon right because it's extra close to the uh yes we're recording

[00:54:53] the 19th of August so yeah and it's also a blue moon right because it's the second but full

[00:55:00] second's full moon and yeah yep um there's always been stories about the power of moons

[00:55:08] right well our single moon on this system I got no other people one other systems with more than one

[00:55:13] moon tell stories or not but um it it has you know it has gravitational pull it had fix the oceans

[00:55:23] so the idea that it wouldn't affect human creatures who are made up of the vast majority of water

[00:55:30] right if it can pull the tides of the ocean it can pull the tides of humans and of course it often

[00:55:35] has an effect on the menstrual cycle exactly what I was thinking yeah which is very very sorry to save

[00:55:40] I didn't know it's a very very very potent image mm-hmm so very easy to tell stories about it

[00:55:48] particularly if you're telling a story around the campfire in its dark in the moon as full yeah

[00:55:54] yeah this definitely feels like a campfire tale to me yeah yeah and

[00:55:59] as you mentioned you know this that we talked in you about earlier a story told to discourage

[00:56:05] children from warning off in the woods in the dark at night um the night stark for full of terror

[00:56:11] yeah yeah which is sad because it's not to be right well I mean it doesn't necessarily mean

[00:56:16] that every parent would be scaring their kids with the story but I can definitely see I was the kid

[00:56:22] at like camp you know when we were in camping I would be around the fire telling ghost stories to

[00:56:28] kids freaking them out of the story of course you would I would tell this story and I'd be the kid

[00:56:34] with their head under a blanket being reached so there you go we need both in the world

[00:56:42] but yeah I know I can see that it's also a lot of these you know these stories from the old

[00:56:48] public take place on distant moons and a noble place is during an unknowable time

[00:56:55] well and the the notion that most myths or legends have a kernel of truth in them yeah so

[00:57:03] here's this entire crew going to land on the planet thinking off there's nothing wrong with this you

[00:57:09] know even though we hear all these stories that the dangerous place to be you know where we're

[00:57:18] the dangerous police and in this sort of thing so right I highlighted a quote from the story

[00:57:26] would you mind reading it sure to cut and the others had heard those tales too but it long before

[00:57:33] dismiss them is fear mongering believing them to be the sort of stories passed around by explorers

[00:57:38] such as themselves to dissuade others who might consider plundering loophole for the abandoned

[00:57:43] treasures they wish to protect for their own game so there again I mean as any of these stories

[00:57:49] not had the theme of your own game of greed it really seems to me that that has been the core

[00:58:00] theme for all of these except the story in which the youngest sister rescues her sips

[00:58:08] and that happens to be the only one that I consider to be a genuine fairy tale and in all the

[00:58:12] ways that we talked about yeah I mean I guess yeah from the ancient myths I would say the

[00:58:22] the one from the one with the skip in the galleon I don't think that's a happy ending no you're right

[00:58:33] but yeah no I mean I see and I wonder these are all these six you know the three we talked about

[00:58:38] last time in the three today they are all stories and I'm tying to the old republic I mean because

[00:58:43] they seem appear to be set there at least marginally and I wonder what there's a sort of even

[00:58:51] with the tales from legends it's like and because it's the era where the Sith held the most sway

[00:58:57] and because it's so far in the past the stories are not clear you know this is the way we look

[00:59:05] thousands of years in our own past and and make guesses based on what we find and what's

[00:59:10] survived I wonder yet that that explains a sort of pervading darkness in these stories

[00:59:17] well and listening to you now makes me think well all right we know the story is half to have been told

[00:59:22] add or shortly after this particular period of time because of what it contains

[00:59:28] but that doesn't mean it wasn't told you know 10,000 years after that time about right time

[00:59:34] from the perspective of people in the future who said like gosh look at how greedy these people

[00:59:41] were you got to watch out for greed that's a look at all the destruction it can cause yeah

[00:59:47] and so the people in the time themselves in the stories themselves yeah probably wouldn't take

[00:59:53] that perspective right you know might as right and power over is the only thing that'll get

[00:59:59] anywhere and it's you know a violent dangerous world and if you don't want to become prey then you

[01:00:05] have to be a predator right yeah so I have to read a quote that's from George Man so same writer

[01:00:13] different book this is from his middle grade novel quest for the hidden city which is part of

[01:00:19] phase two of the high-repearl public books so this we're talking centuries it's a millennia after

[01:00:24] the stories we've been talking about here and it's some characters I love this book by the way and

[01:00:29] it's one of the reasons why I think people should not skip the middle grade books even though

[01:00:33] you think it might not be that yeah absolutely I mean I was just talking about the Tiffany

[01:00:37] Aking series in the disc world and that was supposedly written for children and it's some of

[01:00:43] the best writing he ever did so yeah exactly and it's I mean there are there easy reads too you know

[01:00:48] so all the more reason to just write give it a try but so this is some characters who are also

[01:00:55] so this story is set um like as I said hundreds of about two thousands of years later during the age

[01:01:01] of expiration looking back on the histories that they're uncovering because these are explorers

[01:01:08] on the outer rim and say so it's true everything I've been told about our history is a lie

[01:01:14] yes this character has just found a more mural inside an old temple that shows a different origin

[01:01:20] on post-BCs than she had been told hmm and Dietrich says no it was so long ago thousands of

[01:01:27] years stories change in the telling histories are rewritten events forgotten it doesn't mean that

[01:01:33] anyone lied just that it's been so long they've been they've forgotten the truth and the warnings

[01:01:38] said spends they've forgotten those two the reasons for the for these tapestries your ancient ancestors

[01:01:44] were trying to warn future generations about the minds and the minerals the stories the tale

[01:01:50] told to us is children they were true there are all that's left of the real memories of what happened here

[01:01:58] well of course there you get to one of my favorite topics for discussion which is

[01:02:03] there's a difference between being true and being fact mm-hmm and neither of those things are lies

[01:02:12] right this is certainly but there are certain truths that cannot be

[01:02:20] quote unquote proven or demonstrated factually mm-hmm I cannot factually prove that I love someone

[01:02:33] mm-hmm by my words my actions my so forth it becomes evident

[01:02:39] apparent but love cannot be measured with a thermometer or a telescope or

[01:02:46] calculated with scales or anything those things right so we need both truth and fact mm-hmm

[01:02:57] and in a history we often say it's told by the the victors but it's so

[01:03:03] open to the perspective the interpretation of different perspectives I might also say histories told

[01:03:10] to survivors yes that's true I mean certainly those with power the ones who are most likely to tell

[01:03:16] stories if only because they have the leisure time to do so mm-hmm and to write them down in

[01:03:21] co-domin so forth but even those who are not telling official stories are still telling stories

[01:03:28] about the past and about what happened and we are constantly revising our histories because we

[01:03:35] constantly learn new things mm-hmm and I speak as an historian by training and a lot of people get

[01:03:41] upset about that mm-hmm because they want the past to be past they want something in their life

[01:03:48] to be factual and unquestionated there's just not a lot certainly about human experience that you

[01:03:55] can say that about and so you know you start developing these terms like revisionist and you know

[01:04:03] history through lenses, Marxism, feminism and so on those things are fine because as you use a

[01:04:10] new lens to look at something you discover new things about it um-hmm revisionist

[01:04:16] uses a dirty word says leave my history alone right it also says we need to know what really

[01:04:23] happened mm-hmm and we left out a heck of a lot of material and think of every time I had students

[01:04:31] reading anything whether it was you know a research assignment or a story or anything I said

[01:04:38] ask yourself whose voices are not here right whose voices are not represented are not

[01:04:47] set alongside the other voices that you're hearing and what would that do to your understanding of the

[01:04:52] story right or the text or the tale or whatever yeah I I made a Twitter post recently I said

[01:04:59] something like um it haunts me to know that you know after the zombie apocalypse future archaeologists

[01:05:06] might find objects of mine and and think that my behaviors applicable to everybody like they'll

[01:05:13] find my mortar and pistol test the residue and be like wow people ate a lot of lavender like no

[01:05:19] just one word I wouldn't answer them did well I mean any sensible

[01:05:27] thoughtful archaeologists explore history and whoever is gonna recognize that right

[01:05:33] that in this sense it's almost impossible to tell a history you may tell stories of people you may

[01:05:40] tell histories of peoples mm-hmm and even this seemingly factual timeline of first this happened

[01:05:50] that's the factual it's not the truth necessarily because it leaves out all the implications

[01:05:56] for all the different groups of people who were involved with that particular process yeah yeah I mean

[01:06:03] I wonder factually for this I don't know I think it's cool to have a planet with a chybert crystal

[01:06:10] core I guess why not that's a mineral that's in there yeah um and then yeah so it's been

[01:06:19] corrupted somehow so we we see at various points in the timeline we see the bleeding of

[01:06:24] cyber crystals right so what event could have happened that would put so much rage and and dark

[01:06:33] side energy through a planet or I guess did the planet already start like something like

[01:06:38] death of me or which is leaked star get energy or some plants just dark on the inside no matter

[01:06:46] what they and how does it how did that happen you know must have been long before this well

[01:06:51] and it depends upon your definition of dark doesn't it yeah yeah and does it could it have just

[01:06:57] been something you know you think if you have a group that's together that's in a confined space

[01:07:05] like there in a spaceship for whatever amount of time going through the edges of space and

[01:07:10] could fighting just breakout of course and it's exaggerated and you know those kinds of stories

[01:07:17] go all the way back to the earliest exploration of the globe by ship you know and shipwreck sailors

[01:07:24] and you know did they resort to cannibalism or not and what was it that led them to steer the

[01:07:31] directly to a to a reef and be destroyed and you know did they all go crazy from drinking sea water

[01:07:37] because there was no more fresh water to drink you know that's certainly been a part of the human psyche

[01:07:42] for a very long time yeah I mean imagine what stories we could hear from the paleolithic

[01:07:50] and the elific times yeah if those people have been able to record their stories I would love to

[01:07:58] I think we just have to tell us we overestimate the differences when we look at past peoples and I think

[01:08:04] we would be shocked to find out just how you know they had different much more limited technology

[01:08:10] and development of sort of many ideas and things like that but they were just at the end they were just

[01:08:16] we are animals and they were people our type of animals trying to get by and make something of their life

[01:08:25] you find grave with flowers in it. Flowers buried with the person in that grave. Yep

[01:08:34] that's my brother or sister. I'm sorry yeah we are related we are connected. Yeah and you find

[01:08:44] the the backbone of a coyote that has holes placed in spatial relationship to one another and

[01:08:51] follow to the instrument. Yes you could insist that some predatory creature had just bitten

[01:08:58] in just the right places. Right. Sure you go ahead and do that to me. Yeah it's a flute.

[01:09:06] You know a Paleolithic flute. Yeah I'm a musician, their musician we are connected. Right.

[01:09:14] However long ago so long ago that I could begin to comprehend what that connection would be like

[01:09:19] but at least I know we could sing to each other and we could all reach other flowers. Yeah and we could

[01:09:24] communicate. Yeah so as much as a story is might have morphed and we don't even know what point

[01:09:30] these are necessarily being told. I guess he made the Lugin Leia comment so let's assume we're talking

[01:09:36] around zero. Bebe what? Around the original trilogy time or just before. So we we have no idea

[01:09:46] how much they might have twisted whatever in the telling along the way but yeah it is again

[01:09:54] when we say human in the Star Wars case we mean all the species all the you know sense of

[01:10:00] the end species yeah. Yeah but there's a humanity even in the sits side. Yes yes the the 360 perspective

[01:10:13] on humanity what it is to be human and what is light side and dark side. Yeah um did you have any

[01:10:22] other quotes or thoughts you wanted to shout out about that story? Yeah why don't we humans love to

[01:10:30] frighten ourselves? Mm hmm you would probably be able to answer that question definitely have

[01:10:37] the meaning of it. I'll for me. I'll for us. Well so I think in my case and I'm going to get

[01:10:43] personal here for a moment. In my case so I have an anxiety disorder and I've had this in

[01:10:47] service of child and you know it's been it's not something especially it's something that's people

[01:10:53] overcoming more aware of now but of course um they go I was having crazy nightmare is every night

[01:11:00] not even having seen horror movies yet just about like animals eating my family and just it was

[01:11:06] the anxiety because this is what um anxiety is you know it's a it's a primordial response in us

[01:11:16] and in terms of like how to the fight or flight basically but we have and we've gotten bad at turning

[01:11:24] it off. And it's definitely it's something that can be passed down through generations that can

[01:11:31] reflect prior trauma of generations. This is a real thing called hypnotics. Yes. So very real.

[01:11:40] So then it's like how do you deal with that? And one thing that oddly worked when I was a child

[01:11:47] was um I accidentally started watching horror movies because I refused to go to bed when I

[01:11:52] when my parents went watch jaws and this was you know back in the HBO days before there was

[01:11:56] streaming so they're finally like fine but if you have nightmares tonight and I slept through the night

[01:12:00] oh my gosh you slept through the night tonight. Wow so they started to experiment more with that

[01:12:06] and I played video games and stuff and then you know so I went on to study psychology and one of the

[01:12:12] groups of studies that have interest interested me most has been those exploring like

[01:12:17] particularly in video games you um you get a sense of empowerment through it. So I started my

[01:12:24] nightmares I started lucid dreaming more so when those monsters showed up I could take care of them I could

[01:12:29] like blast energy at them and you know I thought it was also why like superhero stuff when

[01:12:34] I was a kid too um like I you know it's like oh I'm storm I'm blowing you away and yeah so

[01:12:41] for me it was a helpful tool in that way. I think there's also obviously the adrenaline factor

[01:12:51] I appreciate the makeup and the artistry and yeah

[01:12:55] agency seems to be a big piece of it and I guess it depends on the type of story

[01:13:03] I mean if it does wind up you know the young girl fleece from Bluebeard's Castle and is safe again

[01:13:11] that's wonderful because she used her agency she opened the door she found out the dangers she left

[01:13:17] in time or someone came and intervened in time on her behalf whatever um

[01:13:24] but it it uh it's always been a question for me because I can frighten myself so easily

[01:13:32] I don't need to watch a horror film and yet can find a sense of the agency

[01:13:40] and I guess that just comes with time. I mean watching horror films makes me less frightened

[01:13:45] to the point where I've been accused of being a plant on a ghost tour because I was jumping

[01:13:54] up well and I suppose it much depends too on what your source of inner fear comes from I mean if you

[01:14:01] grew up an environment which is threatening and scary. Well I didn't I definitely did not so I

[01:14:07] definitely grew up in a safe environment so my anxiety was completely misplaced there's just a chemical

[01:14:14] reaction right right where is I did grow up in that kind of an environment and so as I say I've never

[01:14:20] needed to scare myself. I never needed other things to scare me because I have sufficiently

[01:14:25] active imagination and experience that you know he don't need to create it for me so I I

[01:14:34] don't really tend to love about things that threaten me that much. I mean even jump scares you know

[01:14:40] kind of take me well to get it get my heart back down to a good level but I think we're

[01:14:49] representations of just the two of us of the whole human experience on this spectrum there and it's

[01:14:55] certainly true that people have been sitting around campfires and scaring each other for a very long time

[01:15:00] yeah some people sleep better and some people wake up with screening. And sometimes yeah it was

[01:15:07] especially when I was younger you know it was hard for me to understand that like that sometimes

[01:15:13] I really did scare someone with a story and you know as like whitty I don't like which is a story

[01:15:20] yeah yeah but again I think if you feel you have control over it if you are the storyteller

[01:15:26] that gives you some control over the horror the terror of the risk the danger if you will

[01:15:32] but I apologize to anyone I might have scared as a kid with my campfire story. I always a girl scouts

[01:15:40] you know me too me too I don't remember hearing ghost stories around campfire though but

[01:15:46] I did develop a temperature of 101 in the other game company that girl I don't know

[01:15:51] I don't know if that was self-produced or just I brought the virus with me and it manifested there

[01:15:57] or what I don't think I caught it from anybody else. Any other quotes or ideas you want to

[01:16:10] I don't think so I think we've taken us to some really fun places and that's that's terrific

[01:16:15] I hope that listeners feel that way too. Yeah no thank you so much for talking through this with me because it is

[01:16:22] even just you know I went through and read these stories and obviously studied them perhaps a little too

[01:16:28] seriously but that's what I'm here for but then talk dollars I to them yeah it's very helpful

[01:16:34] I'm then talking with you has helped me get a deeper level of understanding even so. Oh my

[01:16:41] yeah I think it's just I'm glad that we have this these episodes are set you know the beginning

[01:16:47] of the timeline because they offer a nice framework for just thinking about storytelling in general

[01:16:53] which applies to all the types of stories to come and all the errors. Well another thing I'm just

[01:16:59] thinking is we tell each other stories so that each of us has a little more perspective of someone else.

[01:17:09] Yeah so the more we tell each other stories our own stories and other stories and the more we listen

[01:17:15] to other people's stories the wider understanding we have like we're saying before about history

[01:17:22] yeah the more versions you have event the greater understanding you have of the event as a whole and the

[01:17:30] same thing with stories you know yeah stories are I guess partly of means of of taking control of

[01:17:37] the world and if you don't like what's happening you change the story stories absolutely direct

[01:17:44] our world. Far more I think than they always should you can tell if somebody is living a story

[01:17:53] if they're kind of going along making choices and having expectations and you say well why don't

[01:17:59] why are you choosing this path well that's what we're supposed to do isn't it well who told you that?

[01:18:04] Well there's a TV series or there's this favorite series of novels you read as a kid

[01:18:08] or there's the history or there's whatever it happens to be your your epigenetic

[01:18:13] inheritance. Yeah all of those things can come together to go to your actions but

[01:18:20] if we have a better understanding of each other's stories then my experience has been one is

[01:18:27] less and less likely to be positing heroes and villains you don't have to take them away

[01:18:33] and they're all together you still have characters or at the center of stories but

[01:18:40] you can see that there could potentially be broader perspectives that just your own and that I

[01:18:46] think is always a healthy thing. Well I noticed that as humans so our ability to tell stories is

[01:18:52] one thing that separates us as you know I quote unquote special type of animals but also we are just

[01:18:59] so addicted to finding the narrative and everything that you know that word narrative you hear

[01:19:06] it all the time and on the business side of things you know that it's okay. Oh what's what's

[01:19:12] narrative and that's almost more important than the facts of the events. Absolutely. How are people

[01:19:18] reacting? How is this being interpretive? So stories have such a power but we you know that's why

[01:19:25] yeah the people who are able to shape the stories can often wield a lot of yeah a lot of power

[01:19:34] people who own the media things like that yeah I think that stories both reflect and control us

[01:19:43] and they are to me along along with music the most human things about us. Yeah I mean thus far we don't

[01:19:52] have any evidence that there are any other story turning animals for ourselves. Yeah I mean I

[01:19:57] guess they tell stories in the sense of like predator three clicks that way. Sure I mean

[01:20:03] teach you instruct. I mean even trees communicate disease warnings to each other through through

[01:20:10] them I see a them through the the rootlets structures down below so there is communication and interaction

[01:20:15] and so forth. Yeah it talks about it talks about that with the that first myth of Batu.

[01:20:21] Exactly. Exactly. Oh any final thoughts on the myths in the legends or the focal tales

[01:20:28] or whatever we're going through the stories of the older public. Well I'm sure there could be many

[01:20:33] more final thoughts but then I think we've gone to some lovely places today and maybe listeners

[01:20:39] will write in with their own stories. Yes please do. Yeah please do. I'm sorry.

[01:20:44] So that what talked about today. Yeah we'll be an old republic feedback episode but also

[01:20:50] there will be another one coming in the future so please do send in your thoughts about everything

[01:20:54] we've been discussing in the old republic. Yes please. Very well thank you again Marilyn.

[01:21:01] Well thank you so much for inviting me I always love to talk about this stuff as you know

[01:21:06] and we hope that listeners have enjoyed listening to it. We love getting you talking about this

[01:21:10] stuff. May the force be with you and with you also.

[01:21:19] All right and I am here with Did I Jedi Bob how are you doing Bob?

[01:21:23] I'm very well glad to be back. The people haven't heard your voice on this feed for a few

[01:21:29] weeks now so what did you think about the end of the acolyte spoiler free because we're earlier

[01:21:34] in the timeline? I was really impressed with what we got and I keep hoping that we'll get some news

[01:21:43] about the show being renewed for a second season because uh wow yes please send me.

[01:21:51] Yeah yeah it was a really fun show and um and I mean fun for especially there was a vassu.

[01:22:00] I know you're one ongoing complaint was that it maybe didn't get dark enough.

[01:22:06] So this episode you haven't been able to hear my discussion with Marilyn but I think you'll like

[01:22:10] this episode it's all about this. Dark mists of the old republic.

[01:22:19] But yeah we're here we're gonna talk through some we got some emails and feedback in about

[01:22:26] our coverage of the old republic so far so I just wanted to read them with you and get your responses

[01:22:35] and um yeah I think we have some audio book recommendations coming up but first we're going to start

[01:22:40] with Abby. Abby said just listened I can't stress it enough how good a podcast is is thank you Abby

[01:22:48] I'm bashful reading that so informative for those who didn't read any books or comics only saw the

[01:22:52] movies and animations it sure fills in some huge gaps in my knowledge and yeah Alicia mentioned

[01:22:59] the legends lounge pod and I feel a bit of shame that even as I am a part of a discord group with them

[01:23:05] the other main topic is a song of ice and fire. I never listen to the pod mainly because every time

[01:23:11] I check the Star Wars channel and there I've absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

[01:23:15] I have to go give it a try. I suppose never assume from the combos only on the discord I was

[01:23:21] thinking that I probably wouldn't get it as it's a book talk book talk this and comic that

[01:23:26] might as well be in wookie language. I from my original legends lounge. Yeah I've been really

[01:23:34] needing to start listening to that one. I've been doing a lot of four hounds listening lately but

[01:23:40] yeah I'm going to have to start that. Well that's a good choice yeah. Yeah no I mean

[01:23:48] yeah not no affiliation with us I just think that it's a nice complimentary one to this podcast because

[01:23:55] there there are some legend stuff that we have talked about and we'll talk about like

[01:24:00] Bob and I have been talking about Darth Plague is episode from the book. Oh yes

[01:24:06] but yeah mostly this is primarily canon focused this podcast so and that's a nice way to

[01:24:13] read the books without reading them if you don't have time to read the whole thing. Through.

[01:24:19] Maryland says hello, Elisian Bob good episode on the old republic thanks. I found a

[01:24:26] couple things of particular interest but first a speculation you commented on the fact that the

[01:24:35] my first thought is well it's easier to wash isn't it or maybe it was more their grounded soil

[01:24:41] hippy face. I mean I think that that is because we see in the acolyte that they wear the white

[01:24:49] in a temple and the brown on missions and there probably is something to that you know that

[01:24:53] the brown light stains if you're in the farest of covar. Yeah it makes a lot of sense to me.

[01:24:59] Yeah. Maryland says as I listened to your description of the Jedi Council chamber I thought

[01:25:05] that it could also apply to the Senate chamber at least around the Skywalker era which is the

[01:25:11] well only time I know of what that chamber looks like yeah in the Senate chamber. I think do we

[01:25:16] how early do we really see it in full effect pretty much looks the same. A major difference is that

[01:25:23] the Senate is in the dark and buried away from the folks that they serve rather than being high up

[01:25:27] above the folks that Jedi serve. Both could be said to be out of balance particularly if one

[01:25:33] tried to function without the other and interestingly she wrote this before the acolyte so before we

[01:25:40] saw well yeah this is a minor spoiler for the acolyte but there's some sense of friction between

[01:25:46] the two the Jedi in the Senate. Oh yeah I would say I would say definitely. Are you a fan of like the

[01:25:55] Senate side of Star Wars storytelling? I do enjoy that when I first started exploring Star Wars

[01:26:03] be the books as a kid it didn't make a lot of sense but of course as I've gotten older that part

[01:26:10] of Star Wars has begun to appeal to me more and more so yeah I really like a lot of the political

[01:26:16] stuff in Star Wars. Now it is. Yeah we won't spoil any plots about what happens later but we

[01:26:23] kind of acknowledge that there's a character tied to the Senate called Monmouth Mon who shows up later

[01:26:28] and we just found out Bob you told me just like yesterday I think that they just announced a new

[01:26:35] trilogy in part from her perspective. Yeah I think the first book is going to be focusing on Mon

[01:26:44] and then the next two are going to be focusing on I believe it's possibly saw and they're really

[01:26:52] important characters later on in the timeline and the trilogy is a reign of the Empire. The first

[01:26:57] book is Mask of Fear I believe so that'll be yeah yeah in 2025 or they're about the first book

[01:27:05] I think they said February possibly January. I think I think you're right about February.

[01:27:11] February maybe I don't know I was just looking at a bunch of like really states for phase three stuff

[01:27:15] in the hyper public so maybe I'm getting confused with that but that's okay. But yeah yeah there's

[01:27:22] are three different perspectives of a Senator a diplomat and we won't say too much about the other one

[01:27:33] so Marilyn continues to the best of my knowledge the foundation books did not have two planetary

[01:27:38] bodies sharing an atmosphere I could be mistaken though I'm far more familiar with the original

[01:27:43] trilogy than I am with all the other books some of which I've only read once someone more familiar

[01:27:48] with the foundation books in myself please write in and correct me and yeah this is because

[01:27:52] we talked about foundation the TV show had a such a planet where they were sharing an atmosphere

[01:28:00] with a moon and animals migrating between them and I think that might come from Star Wars I mean

[01:28:05] that happens in Star Wars legends so I'm think maybe that yeah that's where they got it from perhaps

[01:28:14] possibly yeah. Marilyn says on the subject of audible books during my library degree study in

[01:28:20] the late 1970s I did an internship with the library for the blind and physically handicapped in New York

[01:28:25] city where audio books were actually special LPs needing a special player which each patron would have to

[01:28:32] borrow. The LPs would then be sent through the mail upon request rather a slow process I had the

[01:28:39] pleasure of seeing the very first ever Kurzweil machine which can read any print text by placing

[01:28:45] it based on an a glass panel to be scanned it looked rather like a photocopy machine in the early

[01:28:50] days and it was considered a technological marvel we did eventually get one for the library I worked

[01:28:56] for many many years thanks to the generosity of the parents of a student with with dyslexia who learned

[01:29:03] much better if texts were read to them I think it has now been superseded by other technology.

[01:29:11] So yeah do you familiar with did you know about this because at 70s is before your

[01:29:16] award but yeah I did have a Kurzweil reader when I was in college and then after when I moved

[01:29:25] to Texas I think it worked hand in hand with a website called Bookshare and yeah so I'm very

[01:29:32] familiar with that technology. How did that work? Well I think in in terms of how it worked back in

[01:29:40] 2010 2011 or thereabouts you just went to the website and it would just read you the various

[01:29:47] books that you choose you know like text to speech so you didn't have to scheme anything then everything

[01:29:52] was just uploaded by 2011 or thereabouts but I still really find it fascinating because there are some

[01:30:01] EU or legends books that they don't have on audio yet and Bookshare.org fail they'll upload

[01:30:07] older titles I think you pay around 49 or 50 bucks a month to use the service but wow yeah

[01:30:15] I'm sorry I year not a month oh oh yeah that's much better yeah it is much better

[01:30:21] Jesus this auto bill audibles even less than that oh yeah quite a bit less

[01:30:27] no thankfully because it's true it's not just for the visually impaired but also yep people with

[01:30:33] dyslexia people who just like people with attention deficit disorder often prefer you know

[01:30:39] books being read to them there's just and just yeah people who want to like listen to books while

[01:30:44] they're doing other things I know you you like to read while you're cleaning or biking or

[01:30:49] oh yes yeah I do my podcast during that time Maryland continue oh yeah and thank you Maryland

[01:30:57] for sharing that history that's actually super interesting I don't know how much you knew about the

[01:31:02] 70s technology not very much so it's been fascinating to listen to what Maryland wrote in

[01:31:08] yeah Maryland says you've been throwing out all kinds of names of all kinds of characters creatures

[01:31:13] and force users that are unfamiliar to me but the one that really made me sit up and take notice

[01:31:18] was the diagonal masters please tell me more that sounds a lot like the sort of force used

[01:31:24] that I am most interested in hearing about I see from Wikipedia that there were two episodes

[01:31:29] about them in the Clone Wars so I rather suspect you're going to tell me that that's all we know

[01:31:33] about them if so that's a shame looking forward to the next episode keep that information flowing

[01:31:39] all the best Maryland and yeah sorry Maryland but I mean as we've seen with the

[01:31:50] acolyte with witches and as we've seen with especially the hyper public books and things like that

[01:31:56] there does seem to be going back more into that weirdness of the Clone Wars of the legends where

[01:32:03] weirdness with air quotes that the different types of force users right? Right.

[01:32:11] I do hope that we get a lot more in terms of the the quote unquote weirdness factor because

[01:32:17] it is a fascinating bit of star wars that we don't know much about and I would like to learn a bit

[01:32:24] more because there's there's a very little info out there about that so. Right yeah feels like

[01:32:30] whenever we get somebody like other than say the night sisters or you know then it is just a

[01:32:36] little tease and then I'm like well yeah flash it out flash it out tell me more.

[01:32:41] Yeah that's exactly how I am yeah okay so we have our last piece of feedback is from Stu

[01:32:49] do 71, friend of the pod. Stu says hi Bob manage to start listening to the Star Wars Canon timeline

[01:32:55] podcast I'm starting to get to the end of my audio book Odyssey of the Wheel of Time three books left

[01:33:01] and I know he wrote this a little bit ago and he's now finished one of those books and I want to

[01:33:08] get into the Star Wars audio books I've read a few over the 40 years, 40 plus years of being a fan

[01:33:14] with the most recent being the aftermath trilogy and Darth Plagueis. Being as there are hundreds could

[01:33:20] you recommend one or two mini series or standalone in different eras. Cool. Well of course with

[01:33:31] the high republic era I would say light of the Jedi is a very good jumping off point there because

[01:33:38] that kind of gets the whole ball rolling in the high-ruler. Right yeah the jumping off point they

[01:33:43] intended yeah yeah um then in terms of I guess the new cannon timeline I really liked the first book

[01:33:53] in the thron trilogy the new thron. It's just titled thron that kind of shows you how a

[01:34:01] certain character joins the the empire. So that's another one that I really enjoyed from from the new

[01:34:10] timeline. In terms of the events following return of the Jedi one of my favorites has to be shadow

[01:34:20] of the Sith which I hope we eventually do get to talking about on the on the podcast. I think it says a lot

[01:34:27] it sets a lot of things up for the sequel trilogy and that's I think I've read that one twice so far

[01:34:35] and I'll probably be reading it at third time because it answers a lot of questions that I had

[01:34:40] after seeing the rise of Skywalker. In terms of the sequel trilogy era I also really enjoyed

[01:34:49] the movie novelization of Rise of Skywalker. Get to climb inside the heads of characters you didn't

[01:34:55] really get to do in terms of the movies so yeah but the final novelization in that trilogy there.

[01:35:05] Yeah no that's yeah and I would add a jumping back to the old Republic but on the legend side

[01:35:11] because it's all we really have in the old Republic um I would add the Darth Vader trilogy

[01:35:16] is essential reading, especially listening. Yes I wasn't sure if we were just covering cannon

[01:35:22] or legends but I would have certainly added pain and I'm going to go ahead and do that because

[01:35:29] that's another one that I constantly go back to a lot of action in that trilogy if you're into

[01:35:35] light saber doels and when I start that trilogy I just I can't put it down it's it's usually like

[01:35:44] a massive read through whenever I do that. Yeah I mean it's good captivating storytelling and even

[01:35:50] it's legends I think it tells you a lot that's applicable to new cannon as well and they're

[01:35:57] definitely plucking things from there too. Oh yes I would say so. Yeah all right um well any

[01:36:06] other old Republic thoughts you want to throw out there? Um I can't wait for more. Yeah give us

[01:36:14] an end oh we're public stuff other than the myths the myths are great thank you. Yeah. All right well

[01:36:20] hopefully we'll be jumping back to this point in the timeline to talk about it more but um the

[01:36:27] the listeners at home will be hearing from you next I think in the very next episode uh is we're

[01:36:33] going to be doing some feedback from the hybrid public era and talking through some recent

[01:36:38] Comic Con announcements and the Star Wars publishing side. Good news for acolyte fence.

[01:36:43] Very good news. All right thank you Bob. Thank you. Okay and I have now here a march in back with

[01:36:54] me because we have some uh Knights of the Old Republic feedback definitely a lot of people

[01:37:00] having a lot of like fun nostalgia with this game with thoughts about it. I'm sure you're not surprised

[01:37:06] marching. No these are very popular popular games I'm not surprised that people

[01:37:13] remember about them and have have some fun memories of the way they played. Yeah I think you

[01:37:21] also you seem to have some fun just like oh yeah getting back into a remembering. Yeah actually uh yeah

[01:37:28] I come back to uh to the Knights of the Old Republic and my mom and uh yeah I actually managed to play

[01:37:35] a little bit more of it and uh well still didn't get very far but uh I did appreciate it a little

[01:37:42] bit more and the way how the story is a little bit more richer than most of the MMOs I guess so.

[01:37:49] Yeah maybe not the mechanics but this story at least. Yeah yeah I mean perhaps yeah not the

[01:37:54] mechanics of trying to just to make you spend more on some cosmetics or things like that but

[01:38:01] if you had more old app it's so it's surprisingly um engaging. Yeah I do need to do that one

[01:38:08] I have to admit I have not made it past the character creation screen on that one. Yeah but yeah

[01:38:14] the is so we have some feedback here from so the first ones from Sub-Zero who says I played

[01:38:21] Cotor I know again Cotor Knights of the Old Republic get it anyway. I play Cotor front to back

[01:38:27] half a dozen times and I could never go full dark side. I thought about it numerous times and I just

[01:38:33] couldn't make myself do it. So I played that's your favorite way to play again Margin. Yeah yeah actually

[01:38:41] I don't think I managed to go full light side well perhaps maybe once um but I'm not sure if I

[01:38:47] finished that run um I definitely finished the full dark side and and sort of gray

[01:38:55] gray area uh run right um that they're most memorable in my case. I play um RPGs or

[01:39:05] I play like table like D&D I like to play chaotic good so I would say that I usually play gray

[01:39:11] leaning good but yeah it is you made me want to dip my toe a little deeper in the dark just by

[01:39:18] descriptions of how it changes your appearance and yeah just yeah yeah yeah yeah and just to because

[01:39:24] yeah to see like it gives you it changes up the story. Um so Sub-Zero continues I think it's my favorite

[01:39:31] game of all time. I loved everything about it. It felt like you were experiencing a full star wars book.

[01:39:36] I'm not great at real-time game combat so I enjoyed the fight mechanism in this game where you

[01:39:41] get to briefly pause and set your moves. I still remember the first time I saw the Reven reveal it was

[01:39:47] so cool. I really hope the coder story makes it into live action or animation canon at some point.

[01:39:54] Yeah a lot of talk about that and a lot of people would you rather see this story as a live action

[01:39:59] adaptation or an animated adaptation? Yeah hard to say um to be honest perhaps uh live action

[01:40:09] would be the coolest but at the same time yeah it would probably much harder to pull off and then

[01:40:18] yeah it would definitely be scrutinized quite a lot so it would have to be done well.

[01:40:27] I would say probably both yeah definitely I'd like to see animation and then and then perhaps

[01:40:34] somewhere down the way um live action yeah live action as well or perhaps some series based on

[01:40:43] culture or something like that yeah. Yeah well it would be cool since we we're filming this

[01:40:49] or recording this right after we talked about uh some Star Wars visions episodes of the old

[01:40:54] Republic so we were just talking about the what the journey to the darkhead that would be a really

[01:41:00] cool animated style for this story. Oh yeah yeah that's all yeah. No so some of the

[01:41:08] broken continues I uh concludes I am the guy who can never skip a side quest I want to explore

[01:41:14] every nook and cranny so always by the end I'm so overpowered the final boss was not much of an issue

[01:41:19] haha that's how I play through. I've recall getting those pearls from the crate dragons and it gave

[01:41:24] your saver a huge wooth they showed the pearl in mando and I was like that'll never fit in a

[01:41:32] saver. Or it will be different sizes because they can figure in bigger they don't

[01:41:36] grow the depends on the side of the dragon. But you remember the pearls from the crate dragons

[01:41:42] in the game? Time to eat uh yeah I'm not sure I didn't really stand all though I do I yeah

[01:41:53] I'm the same way I do have to finish every side quest that that I did I discover so it's like

[01:41:59] I did finish that one as well um yeah I could definitely relate to that all the everything

[01:42:11] everything that's in this comment. I have to admit that I am a cheating gamer sometimes later like so

[01:42:20] like when I played the Jedi games much later then you know it just took me it takes me longer to get

[01:42:27] to games because it just takes a long and I'm so much other content I'm consuming. So by the time

[01:42:32] I get to the games a lot of other people played them and all finish a planet and then like I'll do

[01:42:37] a little lucky loo and we're like did I miss anything? So Ian I've said uh yeah I have to force

[01:42:49] myself to go dark side slash evil in any RPG coder is one of my favorite games of all time

[01:42:56] and Reven is one of my two or three favorite characters to play the other being Hawk from Dragon

[01:43:01] H2 another bioware game. A G have you played Dragon H2? No only Dragon H1 actually and it is one

[01:43:12] of my favorite RPGs as well it's it was still on the cast between old school RPGs based on

[01:43:19] bothersgate but but um and kind of elevated to to to to new um

[01:43:29] to new style of RPGs more like based on mass effect with the better graphics and and updated

[01:43:37] mechanics so actually Dragon H1 is one one of my favorite RPGs because it's it's this stepping stone

[01:43:46] between the between the two era so far RPGs with better graphics and better production values

[01:43:53] in general but still quite a rich story and quite rich mechanics behind it so um yeah I've read that

[01:44:04] Dragon H2 was a little bit more action oriented a little bit more simplified but uh I'd love to play

[01:44:14] yeah um I have to give a shout out to my friend who goes by Zarina Online and she is she's obsessed

[01:44:20] with the Dragon H games and so she got me to I have now procured all of them actually I got my sister

[01:44:26] to give me some of them as like Christmas birthday gift I don't remember um so I have there's

[01:44:33] three out now and then there's a fourth coming this year I know people are really excited about

[01:44:38] but that's again it's on my I have to catch up on other stuff like I'm still playing Baldur's Gate

[01:44:42] three right now so but I'm really really looking forward to that because I people really seem to love

[01:44:49] that world in the storytelling it's a very rich and interesting fantasy world and especially

[01:44:54] take on magic is I love I love playing magic characters and on the way how how magic is explained

[01:45:01] there and yeah the whole background is super interesting yeah and and just if anyone's confused

[01:45:09] Dragon Age games again they're not Star Wars they're just I they're made by Byreware as he

[01:45:14] said are you a fan of Byreware's game mechanics game style in general yeah yeah that I love

[01:45:21] massive act series it's it's a little bit more action oriented it's a different style maybe RPG

[01:45:29] mechanics are not so are not as as developed there as in Dragon Age but yeah I love all three games

[01:45:37] yeah I played them on different platforms PC Xbox so yeah definitely and yeah I'd love to play

[01:45:45] the the remake or the yeah the the massive fact legendary edition or whatever it's the

[01:45:54] it's in hand graphics but all three games in one package yeah would would love to play one one

[01:46:01] yeah so Ian continues I love Codor 2 and have even played through the restored content but

[01:46:08] it's still somewhat fragmented I've played through the older public MMO on all eight classes wow

[01:46:16] what Martian said about the quest is true but I'm somewhat OCD so I'm able to play through that

[01:46:24] best best story hands down in the older public is the Sith Empire operative it's kind of a

[01:46:30] spy story with multiple branching endings for the original game it's written by Alexander Freed

[01:46:36] who has written some Star Wars books oh see okay this makes me want to play the game more I mean

[01:46:41] I didn't already want to play it but this yeah I really need one to play it because I know the

[01:46:47] outlines of the story but I want to I know it's like it's so with the branching and all the layers

[01:46:52] there's definitely a lot of story to explore there yeah yeah so Debe Max says fun episode on the

[01:47:00] motor games I played Codor and fits in starts of a multiple years on different platforms the

[01:47:05] closest I ever came to finishing it was in 2020 during the pandemic muting on nearly empty trains oh

[01:47:11] wow yeah Debe Max by the way lives in Japan so I'm just thinking like nearly empty trains in Japan is

[01:47:18] wow he says I never did complete it though as I just couldn't beat Mollick and the way I'd been

[01:47:26] playing up to that point was not a good fit for the tactics that you need to in that fight so

[01:47:31] eventually gave up and watched the endings on YouTube oh do you remember what the Mollick fight

[01:47:38] yeah I remember in general I remember final fights in Cultor both the first one and the second one

[01:47:46] where we're quite challenging which um perhaps didn't really surprise me that much because uh yeah

[01:47:53] usually final boss fights and RPGs are quite quite part yeah sometimes you run into into the

[01:48:02] trap of developing your character the way you you just want to develop and and and somehow it

[01:48:09] might make it harder to actually finish the final boss yeah it's a yeah it's a but hard to balance

[01:48:18] the mechanics in those games such large scope games in in particular and I never had that with

[01:48:26] with Cultor perhaps because I played mainly dark side and it was just simply more powerful

[01:48:33] but I did have that in with some RPGs like Final Fantasy VII or Icewind Dale the first

[01:48:41] where I played those games before any YouTube videos before any online guides and I kind of

[01:48:49] experimented developing like characters the way I wanted and that made it really hard to

[01:48:55] to finish the final boss so I definitely yeah I definitely understand yeah I mean I guess you

[01:49:03] probably always played as a male character no actually no I love female characters and

[01:49:11] RPGs I normally yeah the first playthrough I do is usually female character maybe you

[01:49:18] sometime along the way I do I do the opposite but somehow yeah so Davey Mac he says one

[01:49:26] interesting aspect I'm not sure is a parent if you play as a male character is how character

[01:49:30] dynamics change if you play as a female character like Carth for example comes off as a misogynist

[01:49:36] with some of his dialogue towards you and the whole romance angle with bestilla is just not

[01:49:41] existing and there's a romance possibility with Carth which I never pursued while playing because

[01:49:47] of the way he talked to me early in the game thank yes no your word yeah I have to say I'm not really

[01:49:56] yeah you don't do the one-an-side you said yeah not really I mean usually when it's when it's

[01:50:01] yeah about some I like to play the character that's more stoic and more focusing on the job

[01:50:09] so so usually when there's some line that that's a dirty line today for the or suggest that

[01:50:18] there might be something more usually I just brush it off saying that we are we have more important

[01:50:23] things there's galaxies that's thick let's focus in the job or something like that so usually

[01:50:30] usually I focus on that but yeah I guess that's the that's the video of RPG games that you can just choose

[01:50:37] whatever yeah whenever your character wants to be and yeah if you want to focus on fighting and saving

[01:50:46] the galaxy I mean I say why not vote sure I order then you can take a break and then just explore

[01:50:53] explore the side twist or explore the relations with other characters as well you know how I play

[01:51:02] I sent you videos of of embalters gate three of my character in shadow on a

[01:51:07] epic moment yes not say for work so David my continues but the legends can in version of

[01:51:19] Reven and bestilla being married yeah so the legend yeah the legends version of Reven and bestilla

[01:51:25] being married doesn't line up for people playing as female characters yeah I mean I hope if they

[01:51:31] they're apparently remaking the game as we talked about in the episode I hope that they just

[01:51:37] let you romance bestilla no matter what your gender is like don't tell me don't tell me what to do

[01:51:42] game yeah well it's still it's still old school or yeah four years right go so

[01:51:49] and he says though I do recall they're being a mod out there then enabled it so you could still have

[01:51:54] the romance angle for yeah for the female so female Reven's with bestilla and also fun facts I picked

[01:52:03] up from another podcast is the bestilla originally was meant to be Vima Sun Rider the daughter of

[01:52:09] no me Sun Rider from the tales of the Jedi comics that's cool and her battle meditation ability

[01:52:14] was a big thing in those books okay I haven't read those books but that's that's really good to know

[01:52:18] and yeah I should someday I'll catch up on the legends books I haven't read and coder has the best

[01:52:26] great Jedi and jolly bingo I don't think we really talked about her much yeah no don't think so

[01:52:33] but yeah I mean I think I think for the story or yeah for the game remake side of it

[01:52:41] I would love for them to like just update mostly the graphics but also certain mechanics like that

[01:52:48] and for this story telling side of it it would be cool and I know this is this will make some

[01:52:54] but it would be cool if they made Reven more and drauginist to just kind of like as a nod to this

[01:53:01] they make playing mechanic yeah I mean if you think about it it's um in my impression Seth

[01:53:09] are not really concerned about such low temptations of the flesh they just want to focus on

[01:53:16] quiet power they still get down and burn yeah more that's sad with our dream being concerned

[01:53:28] about gender or right no but they're not like they're not as strong as they just grab what they want

[01:53:35] right I mean I would say a Sith is is as likely to be a misogynist as a Jedi it's that's not inherent

[01:53:43] in a Sith mentality or anything right yeah yeah or yeah to be gender to care about gender is not yeah

[01:53:49] the Sith is not about gender it's about power exactly I think I think it's more it's more but

[01:53:57] yeah not not really gender but but what they what they perceive as power and strong character

[01:54:06] that can earn their respect perhaps or then they can look look a bit more favorably

[01:54:12] or the opposite if there's someone who they see as we can pathetic yeah okay so our last piece of

[01:54:21] feedback for the segment is Stu who said really enjoying the timeline pods managing to catch up

[01:54:28] on low-rounds content listening to the episode with Marchin I went back and thought about

[01:54:32] my gaming history of gaming and Star Wars it really began with the classic Star Wars coin

[01:54:37] up game many hours were frittered away putting 50 pence into this sit down version the combo

[01:54:45] of hi-profess gameplay and hearing the John Williams soundtrack with audio footage from the film was

[01:54:51] transformative for teen dove um this led to the Star Wars trilogy side scrollers on SNES

[01:54:57] then on into PC and consoles so here's my history and I won't read it all out but Marchin I

[01:55:04] think this is this is pretty much everything you named and some more things besides pretty much yeah

[01:55:11] and some more and couple of that so quite an impressive list I would say

[01:55:15] are you want to shout out?

[01:55:19] yeah I mean there's so much of the list I would say dark forces and definitely Jedi

[01:55:25] of cast Jedi Academy these are one of my favorite more action oriented Star Wars games

[01:55:33] for some least yeah I mean that's also classic and yeah of course all the

[01:55:44] RPGs here the Knights of the Elder Republic but very prominent place battlefront I spent some

[01:55:52] some time with Battlefront 2 um wasn't that much into Battlefront 1 because it didn't have single player

[01:55:58] and yeah I always for single player introduction to first person shooter games so even if it's

[01:56:09] not that great I always like to play through the campaign to learn about the mechanics of the

[01:56:15] first person shooter and then get into a multiplayer and Battlefront 2 was perfect for that and I

[01:56:20] spent some I'm not really that much into and to online first person shooters but

[01:56:28] right I like this setting and I'd like the way how it was implemented in Battlefront 2 so I

[01:56:33] spent some hours playing on multiplayer maps especially galactic domination or yeah I forgot the name of

[01:56:43] of this game mode but yeah it was it was a match consistent of different levels where you

[01:56:50] were playing planet side and then you're moving to the fight in the in the dreadnought up in the

[01:56:57] all orbit and you had to blow it up so that was pretty cool yeah Battlefront 2 is actually canon

[01:57:06] I haven't played it at all because of yeah that I'm not usually into like the shooter thing

[01:57:12] but I do intend to at least dabble in it it's that later in the timeline so I want to at least

[01:57:16] give it a try before we get there but it's good to know I know that like there's some there's

[01:57:21] some story element like decent storytelling and that one too right yeah yeah it's a pretty cool

[01:57:28] of the first single player campaign is not bad I would say it has interesting characters and

[01:57:38] it introduces certain interesting aspects that have never been shown or mentioned at least to my

[01:57:44] knowledge perhaps in the books or yeah but not in more popular media or let's say more media

[01:57:53] mainstream media I would say so yeah yeah it was it was definitely fun to play through yeah

[01:58:02] yeah and Stu wraps up and says well that's a lot of Star Wars games where did I find the time

[01:58:07] I miss it now sure I think sometimes yeah I see here on the list there's GameCube I never

[01:58:13] owned the GameCube so oh okay I had it when I was a I guess well was it you enjoy the time

[01:58:19] and then Rock's Rock's Quantum and yeah I did hear quite a lot about yeah those games yeah

[01:58:27] and they're supposed to be the movie that's maybe even shelved or weird there okay okay

[01:58:35] so yeah we'll see well but that definitely yeah that is also set later in the timeline so

[01:58:39] definitely talk about that then but yeah it could just see that there's still a lot of love

[01:58:45] for nights of the old Republic out there I think we're definitely going to see more Star Wars storytelling

[01:58:51] centered around it just because of like people that's it's still how many years later one of

[01:58:57] Star Wars games people talk about most were the series yeah yeah I mean one of the best RPGs

[01:59:04] of all time I'll say I don't necessarily Star Wars games so yeah it's just I wish they they just

[01:59:11] release the remake or only yeah yeah well okay I'll be patient if it's gonna be good but I'm

[01:59:19] definitely that's one then I'm going to put it at the top of my list when it comes out

[01:59:24] well thank you Marchin for talking through the codore stuff with me again yeah it's fun to

[01:59:31] revisit this part of the timeline sure what is the pleasure

[01:59:37] thank you again for your ears next up in two weeks Marchin and Heldley are back to talk

[01:59:43] through two Star Wars visions episodes about echoes of the Sith in the Hyver Republic and then

[01:59:49] be joined by Bob again for our first mail bank of the Hyver Republic once that episode releases

[01:59:53] this one will be back dated where it fits in the episode timeline so if you're listening later

[01:59:58] you'll be listening to this in second era the old Republic as intended and probably the next

[02:00:03] episode in the list after this will be the Hyver Republic overview at least for a while um

[02:00:09] after that I'll be continuing to release a few more flashback episodes set in the Hyver public including

[02:00:14] part one of season two of young Jedi adventures with Bob and a shorter episode about the new

[02:00:21] Kalnaka comic then we will mostly just be moving forward in the timeline wrapping up the Hyver

[02:00:27] public with a talk with Bob again about the legends plague is novel and then it's time to kick off

[02:00:33] the next era era four watch out for an overview episode and what to expect from that era after

[02:00:39] the plague is novel but you can already check out the link to the episode list in the show notes

[02:00:44] to see what books and comics will be covered in the first episodes of era four for anyone who wants

[02:00:50] to read ahead and canon patawan and stories in the show look out for that extra dark

[02:00:55] nile episode in your supercast feeds in October anyone else who wants access to the supercast

[02:01:00] feed will find that link in the show notes they can't in patawan timeline grants you earlier

[02:01:05] at free access to episodes a timeline and podcast release order and extras like this book

[02:01:12] the stories and level combines access to both the canon patawan feed and the wool shift just

[02:01:17] book club linked to my other podcast for a discounted price the book club is currently covering all

[02:01:23] of the silo books and stories with a season one rewatch focusing on book spoilers coming next

[02:01:28] month to ramp up for season two which begins November 15th on Apple TV plus and will be covered

[02:01:34] weekly on the public feed with more bonuses for book club members a special thank you to new

[02:01:40] can w n list do and on the rest of the network on the lower-ounce feed rings of power is in full

[02:01:48] swing so you can check out numerous weekly episodes for that especially for lower-hound subscribers

[02:01:54] and agatha is kicking off and it's wickedly delightful we already have our first episodes break down out

[02:02:01] and also the penguin on HBO it's a very different flavor think dc sopranos but it's so good

[02:02:08] we've decided to expand our coverage past the single one shot so look out also for that and for one

[02:02:15] shots for alien and beagle juice too in the lorhounds feed with a lot more to come over the next few

[02:02:21] months do also check out the newest member of the lorhounds network never mind the music mark

[02:02:27] is a music professor and his colleague and friend Nicole teaches psychology together they offer new

[02:02:32] insights into songs you love or will enjoy discovering within a reverent tone and a quick

[02:02:38] all add that link in the show notes for this episode as well do go and check them out

[02:02:42] and see you back here in a couple of weeks to get back into the high-re public with a legends

[02:02:48] look at star wars visions season one episode seven the elder and season two episode nine

[02:02:54] until then ninety night and don't let the Darth Ciborous bite