A Christmas Carol Classics – The chorus

[00:00:36] Hello Wool-Shift-Dust listeners, Alicia here. Please, come on inside. Go ahead and shut the door behind you, don't let the snow in, and come curl up by the fire. For Luke and I have a tale to tell you. A tale of despair, of hope and redemption. A tale of ghostly spirits, the cruelty of man, and finding the inner spark that allows you to spread spots of brightness in a sometimes dark world.

[00:01:00] We're talking, of course, about A Christmas Carol. Luke, excited to talk about the nine classics, four shorts, five feature films that we've got on the docket for today?

[00:01:10] And a partridge in a pear tree. Yeah, I am, and this is a very thorough list that you've come up with, Alicia, but I've really enjoyed watching all this content.

[00:01:24] Because some of these films are on a hard rotation. I watch them every year. Some, like The Alice of the Sim 1951 version I haven't watched in a very long time. Ditto, the 1984 George C. Scott version. And those two had actually got kind of merged together in my head.

[00:01:45] Yeah, it's the same. Yeah.

[00:01:47] I know you and I are going to differentiate hard on them today.

[00:01:50] Yeah. So it was an interesting experience to kind of disaggregate those two films. But yeah, I've really enjoyed it. And by the way, it's a great night to be recording A Christmas Carol, because it's absolutely pelting it down with rain here in Scotland. It's blowing a gale.

[00:02:10] In Amsterdam too.

[00:02:12] It really is a night for ghost stories.

[00:02:16] Yeah.

[00:02:17] Yeah.

[00:02:17] Well, so the topic was your idea. And of course, we talked about that more in the intro episode. But now I feel like I've given you Christmas homework. So I hope you're enjoying it.

[00:02:27] No, thank you very, very much, Alicia.

[00:02:56] Thank you.

[00:02:59] Thank you.

[00:03:29] We're going to talk also about like the first major musical version, the 1970 version of Scrooge starring Albert Finney. And then we're going to round it out with some talk of the of some of the classic animated slash children's version. So there's the Oscar winning 25 minute long 1971 short A Christmas Carol.

[00:03:50] And which actually stars Alistair Sim. And they have Marley from the 51 version back for that as well. So nice callback.

[00:04:00] And we're going to talk about, of course, don't worry, the Muppet Christmas Carol from 1992. And also one last short Mickey's Christmas Carol from 1983, which is only 26 minutes, which is my personal favorite.

[00:04:15] So yeah, you'll find links in the show notes where you can watch all of them or yeah, I think all of them are available. Two of them require a Disney plus subscription.

[00:04:25] Before we start breaking them down, Luke, do you have overall favorites, least favorites you want to shout out up front?

[00:04:33] Okay, my favorite is very predictable. I talked about it in the preview episode. It's just a film that that is tied up inexorably with Christmas for me. And that's that that's the Muppets Christmas Carol.

[00:04:47] And almost it's almost not fair to judge that as a movie because it it's just become like so much. It was how I was like I said in the intro episode, it was how I was introduced the story. Yeah, so that's definitely my favorite.

[00:05:03] My least favorite, I think, is the 1984 version for reasons we'll get into. It's not bad. It's not terrible. It's just not all that good.

[00:05:18] Yeah. I'm on board with you, I guess, with the least favorite because yeah, it was just I also like I went in really excited for that one. And then it was just kind of like, oh, wait, this isn't as good as I remember it.

[00:05:33] Yeah. And a lot of that is because it's stuff you thought was in was in the that one was right in the 90. It was actually in the 1951 one. Yeah.

[00:05:41] And so, yeah, the 1951 one was like my covert favorite that like snuck up and and, you know, bit me in the favorite. But but I mean, you know, there's always I have a soft spot for Mickey. That's like I feel the way about Mickey the way you feel about the Muppet Christmas Carol.

[00:05:57] Okay. So what's your version of the 1951? What's your like second favorite after my second favorite is actually a bit of a controversial one. I'm going for the 1999 Patrick Stewart one.

[00:06:09] It's controversial. Well, it's not. It's I don't think it's considered like one of the classic adaptations.

[00:06:17] I think so. That's why it's on the list.

[00:06:19] Okay. Um, but yeah, I mean, Patrick Stewart is a really good Scrooge that the the film emerged out of one man show he was doing.

[00:06:29] He was doing like readings, you know, doing like the proper Dickensian readings of a Christmas Carol.

[00:06:35] Um, and that's where that came from. So he does a really good version of Scrooge at like every stage of his transformation and like OG and unredeemed Scrooge as well.

[00:06:49] And also like so many versions of a Christmas Carol get rid of the bit with the miners and the guys on the ship.

[00:06:59] And that does that particular scene, the best of all of them.

[00:07:03] And also anytime you throw in Silent Night into a Christmas movie, you're going to hit me straight in the fields.

[00:07:10] Yeah. They give you a whole montage. So yeah, that is a strong point of that.

[00:07:14] I like that one too. I do like that one.

[00:07:16] Yeah. And also apparently that one, um, other than obviously the one men's show, um, the its biggest influence that they cite is the 1951 version, my favorite. So see, they're kindred spirits.

[00:07:29] Yeah.

[00:07:31] Okay. Well, as far as spoilers go, I mean, it seems silly to give out any sort of spoiler warning, especially for this episode.

[00:07:38] Maybe when we talk about Christmas Carol people, you know how the story goes.

[00:07:43] If you want to know how the book version of the story goes in detail that we covered in the book club.

[00:07:49] So that's for the Supercast and Patreon subscribers. You can find those links in the show notes and we'll talk more about it at the end.

[00:07:55] Um, but for this episode, yeah, we are talking about the classics that were the ones that we've handpicked for this year.

[00:08:02] I think we've already pretty much decided we're doing this again next year, if not the year after as well.

[00:08:06] There are so many adaptations of a Christmas Carol. It's untrue.

[00:08:12] Yeah, it's, it's overwhelming. So, so for this episode with the classics, what we're going to do is, um, I kind of just, I listed them out in little groupings and we're going to talk about them first in those little groupings, give a little backstory in the films.

[00:08:25] Uh, what's special and notable about each of them. And then we're going to go, uh, into the Christmas pit of hell to go.

[00:08:34] We're going to basically, we're going to put them head to head against each other and talk about like, who is the best Scrooge and, uh, following the layout of the novel, we're going to go through one stave at a time.

[00:08:45] And so for the, for those of you who didn't get to listen to the novella episode, um, the novella is divided into five staves and basically they're the, he called the chapter staves because it's a Christmas Carol, you know, it's a musical, it's a song.

[00:09:04] So that's why it's laid out that way.

[00:09:07] We talk more about the musical references in the novella and the book club episode.

[00:09:11] Uh, so you can learn more about that there, but that's also why you'll notice that each of these episodes in this series has some sort of musical reference in the name.

[00:09:20] And then there's going to be two more episodes coming your way after this one, there'll be a mini episode focused on Dickens, which we're going to compare to the man who invented Christmas 2017 movie, which is a loose telling of his creation of this novel.

[00:09:37] A lot of emphasis on the loose.

[00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:41] So that'll be a short, quick light episode, but just to give you a little framework.

[00:09:47] Um, and then, yeah, we're going to have another full episode like this covering some of the most popular twists on the tale.

[00:09:54] And we'll talk more about that and exactly what we'll be covering in that episode at the end.

[00:10:00] And of course we talked about it in the intro episode as well.

[00:10:04] All right.

[00:10:05] So to get into our chosen classics first, the first films, can I ask before we get into this, Luke?

[00:10:12] Um, I I'm one of those weirdos who regularly watches movies from, you know, 1900 or something.

[00:10:19] Um, but I, I take it, this is less your cup of tea in general.

[00:10:23] So I appreciate you going along on this journey with me.

[00:10:26] Now I, I found it really interesting actually.

[00:10:29] Yeah.

[00:10:29] And it's, it's really interesting how quickly cinema develops both as a technology and as a storytelling medium.

[00:10:38] So there's actually quite a big difference in like how sophisticated the 1901 version is versus the 1910 version.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:47] And we could, we could have had a version from 1938 as well, which would have been the first.

[00:10:51] Yeah.

[00:10:51] But no, that's definitely on the list for next year.

[00:10:54] Yeah.

[00:10:54] And 35.

[00:10:55] Yeah.

[00:10:55] Yeah.

[00:10:55] Which would have been the first two talky versions of a Christmas Carol.

[00:11:00] But I mean, the first one, the 1901 one isn't a complete story.

[00:11:05] Isn't a complete story.

[00:11:06] No, it's part of it's lost.

[00:11:08] It's only six minutes.

[00:11:09] And it does seem to all take place inside Scrooge's chambers.

[00:11:15] Like they only seem to have the one set.

[00:11:18] Yeah.

[00:11:19] I mean, to be fair, yeah, the cameras had to be planted in place.

[00:11:22] And one of like the coolest innovations where they would have like studios that would actually rotate around to capture the best light.

[00:11:30] Like there was the Black Maria was Edison studios.

[00:11:32] One of the major, actually Edison was a studio behind the 1910 version.

[00:11:36] Oh yeah, it was.

[00:11:37] That's really cool.

[00:11:39] Yeah.

[00:11:40] I did not.

[00:11:40] So, yeah.

[00:11:42] So the very first film adaptation was this 1901 version titled simply Scrooge, a.k.a.

[00:11:50] It's sometimes called Marley's Ghost.

[00:11:53] And this so this came out only 58 years after the book was published.

[00:11:58] But of course, a bunch of stage adaptations and readings and all that had been going on before this.

[00:12:03] But this is the first time it was put on this new developing technology.

[00:12:07] So they had to figure out the limitations of, you know, this new medium.

[00:12:12] Yeah.

[00:12:13] So just for context for 1901 is when this film came out.

[00:12:17] The oldest film ever is 1895.

[00:12:20] So this is only six years after films had just been started to be made.

[00:12:24] And the oldest surviving film actually comes from 19.

[00:12:28] It comes from 1888.

[00:12:29] And that's the Rond Hay garden scene by Louis Leprince.

[00:12:33] The older one, by the way, is workers leaving the Lumiere factory from the Lumiere brothers, who anyone you know about film, you know, they're one of the pioneers.

[00:12:41] And to one year after this film was the famous A Trip to the Moon, Georges Méliès film, which is considered the first sci-fi film.

[00:12:51] Are you familiar with that one?

[00:12:52] Yes, I've seen that.

[00:12:53] Yeah.

[00:12:53] Yeah.

[00:12:54] Yeah.

[00:12:55] So this is really like at the very beginning.

[00:12:58] This is one of the ones that's first figuring out the special effects.

[00:13:02] And it's such a shame that people weren't preserving these films better.

[00:13:05] Yeah, it is.

[00:13:06] And I've got to say, if you didn't know the story, if you hadn't read A Christmas Carol, it would have been pretty hard to work out what was going on.

[00:13:17] Yeah.

[00:13:18] Yeah.

[00:13:18] Well, so apparently this was, this film was, it's another historical moment for it.

[00:13:23] It was the first use of intertitles.

[00:13:25] So the titles that appear between the films, but the version that we've seen doesn't have them.

[00:13:30] Oh, okay.

[00:13:31] So that would have made it easier to.

[00:13:33] Yeah.

[00:13:34] Yeah.

[00:13:34] Okay.

[00:13:35] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:37] But yeah, so this one, because it's only six minutes long and they lost the, and they used to only be three and a half minutes and then they found more of it.

[00:13:43] So we've doubled the length, but now it ends with Scrooge just falling into a grave.

[00:13:49] And then like, so it's kind of like a sad ending.

[00:13:51] Yeah.

[00:13:52] There's no redemption.

[00:13:53] Yeah.

[00:13:53] No redemption for you.

[00:13:55] You're dead.

[00:13:56] Yeah.

[00:13:57] Not that Scrooge.

[00:13:58] So by the way, that Scrooge is played by Daniel Smith.

[00:14:01] I can't find any other credit to his name than this.

[00:14:04] But the director was Walter R. Booth and he was a British magician and early film pioneer.

[00:14:09] He was famous for quote unquote trick films that led to the first animated film.

[00:14:14] So his other most famous film is the hand of the artist.

[00:14:17] That's considered the first animated film from 1906.

[00:14:20] And, um, yeah, he had been making films for two years by this point when he made this.

[00:14:25] And he worked with producer slash writer, Robert W. Paul, who was another legendary, even more legendary film pioneer from England.

[00:14:36] Um, and he invented also a lot of technical side.

[00:14:42] So he had some innovations with portable cameras and he also built something called the cinematograph camera number one in 1896.

[00:14:52] And this is the first camera to feature a reverse cranking, which allowed for the same film footage to be exposed more than once.

[00:15:00] And so they were able to like superimpose multiple images in one film.

[00:15:07] And the first film this was used on was this one, the.

[00:15:10] Oh, for the ghosts.

[00:15:12] Mm hmm.

[00:15:13] Exactly.

[00:15:14] Okay.

[00:15:14] Yeah.

[00:15:16] So this was, yeah, this is cutting edge film technology on display.

[00:15:19] What's left of it.

[00:15:20] Yeah.

[00:15:21] Yeah.

[00:15:22] Uh, and he said he actually based it as much on the popular stage adaptation of the time as the original one.

[00:15:30] Uh, the stage adaptation was done by JC Buckstone.

[00:15:33] Well, that makes sense.

[00:15:34] Yeah.

[00:15:35] So basically what they did is they had, and we'll see this pop up.

[00:15:39] I know you watched the it's Christmas Carol, which I haven't seen yet, but, um,

[00:15:43] there's this convention that sometime is, is used in some of the adaptations where they use one ghost.

[00:15:49] Yes.

[00:15:50] Yeah.

[00:15:51] Instead of like the multiple ghosts.

[00:15:53] And that comes from that stage adaptation, basically.

[00:15:55] Okay.

[00:15:57] And yeah, they just basically use Marley throughout, which makes sense, you know,

[00:16:01] to deepen the relationship with that one spiritual entity, I guess.

[00:16:05] Yeah.

[00:16:06] Do you have any general thoughts on this one?

[00:16:10] Um, so I thought it was really interesting comparing this one to the 1910 one,

[00:16:15] just to see how far the technology had advanced and like a little less than a decade.

[00:16:19] So this one, the 1910 one does have the intercards, you know, the text.

[00:16:24] And it also.

[00:16:25] Yeah.

[00:16:26] Which is arbitrary.

[00:16:27] The music.

[00:16:28] And it does have this really cool thing where like they change the filters depending on whether

[00:16:32] it's the ghost, like the spirit world or the actual world.

[00:16:37] So the actual world is in like a brown filter.

[00:16:41] Yeah.

[00:16:41] And like when the spirits show up, it goes into a blue filter, which I thought was actually

[00:16:45] a really cool effect.

[00:16:47] Yeah.

[00:16:47] No.

[00:16:47] So yeah, that's a 1910 one.

[00:16:49] Um, just before we get into that, just to round out this one, um, just in comparison.

[00:16:54] Yeah.

[00:16:55] The 1910 one does, it is interesting to put them side by side because a 1910 one, then

[00:16:59] you're like, Oh, I see what the other one was doing, but you did it better.

[00:17:02] Yeah.

[00:17:03] Even though it's only nine years later.

[00:17:05] Yeah.

[00:17:05] And it's a, it's a more complete telling of the story as well.

[00:17:09] Yeah.

[00:17:09] They have more time and they hit in the whole films there.

[00:17:11] Um, but yeah, the first one, the 1901 one is, you know, it's like fuzzy and silent.

[00:17:16] And of course they're like limited by necessities.

[00:17:19] Very few sets.

[00:17:20] The visions are all that picture within picture thing.

[00:17:23] And the data wants cut off.

[00:17:25] Um, but it was cutting edge special effects for the time.

[00:17:29] Um, I just want to point out there was a, the second ever film adaptation was actually

[00:17:34] done in 1908 called a Christmas Carol.

[00:17:37] And that was actually the first American adaptation was filmed in Chicago.

[00:17:41] By the, uh, it was starring though British American early actor, Tom Ricketts, but that

[00:17:46] version is considered lost.

[00:17:49] However, just to point out why we are missing out, uh, the moving picture world magazine,

[00:17:56] which was a, the premier magazine of early filmmaking says it is impossible to praise this

[00:18:02] film too highly.

[00:18:03] It reproduces a story as closely as, as it is possible to do in a film and the technical

[00:18:08] excellence of the work cannot be questioned.

[00:18:11] The photography, the staging, and the acting are all of the best.

[00:18:14] And the stories told is always impressive.

[00:18:17] Such films cannot be too highly commended.

[00:18:20] They are welcome relief from the riot of bloodshed, which has marred the moving picture

[00:18:24] shows of New York and other cities for far too long.

[00:18:27] I'm like, it's 1908.

[00:18:28] How long?

[00:18:29] Yeah.

[00:18:30] The more things change, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

[00:18:36] Even though it costs a fortune almost to prepare such a film, it is quite likely that the public

[00:18:41] will patronize it sufficiently to make good, the extraordinary outlay.

[00:18:46] Like, yeah.

[00:18:47] Yeah.

[00:18:48] Like nothing changes about the film industry.

[00:18:50] No.

[00:18:52] No.

[00:18:53] It is funny.

[00:18:53] Like, I've watched these early films.

[00:18:55] Like, please show me.

[00:18:56] I'm just out of curious.

[00:18:57] Where's the riot of bloodshed?

[00:18:58] Yeah.

[00:18:59] Where's the bloodshed?

[00:19:01] But anyway.

[00:19:02] Yeah.

[00:19:03] So, A Christmas Carol, 1910.

[00:19:08] That is the first surviving complete film adaptation, 13 Minutes, American Made, directed

[00:19:14] by J. Cyril Dolly, who was a former stage actor and prolific filmmaker of the silent era,

[00:19:20] produced by Edison Studios in the Bronx, as we talked about.

[00:19:23] And Scrooge was played by Mark McDermott, who was an Irish-Australian-American prolific

[00:19:29] stage and screen actor.

[00:19:30] And also of note, Cratchit was played by Charles Stanton Ogle, who's best known as the original

[00:19:36] Frankenstein's monster in 1910 and Long John Silver in 1920.

[00:19:41] I've watched that 1910 Frankenstein, and it is, it's different.

[00:19:46] Okay.

[00:19:47] Yeah.

[00:19:48] I like it.

[00:19:48] I like it.

[00:19:49] I always have the picture of him.

[00:19:51] He just looks so different than you picture Frankenstein, and he's more like a shaggy swamp

[00:19:57] guy.

[00:19:58] Okay.

[00:19:58] Interesting.

[00:19:59] Hmm.

[00:20:01] So, okay.

[00:20:01] So you liked this one, you said more for the different, they use the color filters.

[00:20:07] Yeah.

[00:20:07] And it's just, I mean, it's nothing, nothing against the 1901 one.

[00:20:11] No, no, no.

[00:20:11] It's just a complete version of the story.

[00:20:15] It is like, you know, it's almost beginning to end adaptation of A Christmas Carol.

[00:20:22] And having the cards, the text does make it easier to follow where we are in the story.

[00:20:28] I just, I love the physicality of the acting.

[00:20:31] There's a lot of pointing and all the acting is very big gestures because it has to be like

[00:20:38] really broad to get the point across.

[00:20:41] Yeah.

[00:20:42] Yeah.

[00:20:43] Yeah.

[00:20:43] I mean, it's interesting because we see like there, obviously it's iterations of the same

[00:20:47] special effects they were using nine years earlier, but they've gotten more advanced

[00:20:52] now and they're much cleaner and crisper.

[00:20:53] The one weird thing was like the framing, it's, you know, I guess because they couldn't really

[00:20:58] move the camera.

[00:20:59] Sometimes the framing would be cut off weirdly.

[00:21:02] Like you're watching like half of a dinner scene.

[00:21:04] Like what are we doing here?

[00:21:06] Yeah.

[00:21:06] It's like the, the, they get really hadn't quite worked out the blocking of it.

[00:21:10] Right.

[00:21:11] You know, where, where to put everybody.

[00:21:13] So everybody was in charge.

[00:21:15] Yeah.

[00:21:16] But yeah.

[00:21:17] And of course they have to really simplify the story because you only get some title cards

[00:21:21] to clue you in.

[00:21:22] And as you said, you know, they have to use a lot of gestures.

[00:21:25] A lot of pointing and a lot of open mouth.

[00:21:30] Yeah.

[00:21:31] But yeah, I mean, it can't compare to what comes later, but it's really interesting to

[00:21:36] see where it comes from.

[00:21:38] And I think, and I noticed they use the blue specifically for the ghost scenes and it's

[00:21:43] really faithful, but like super simplified.

[00:21:46] And wouldn't you just love to get a time machine and go back and watch that in a cinema with an

[00:21:52] audience.

[00:21:52] I'd love to know what the audience reaction to that was.

[00:21:56] Cause like you look at it and think, Oh, this is, this is interesting, but it's really

[00:22:01] basic.

[00:22:02] But you make the point that it's absolutely cutting edge technology for its time.

[00:22:07] So like, I've always wondered with like a trip to the moon, like if I ever had a time machine,

[00:22:12] like I'd want to go back and watch that in a cinema with an audience to see what people's

[00:22:18] reaction would be.

[00:22:20] Yeah, exactly.

[00:22:22] Well, yeah.

[00:22:22] Even those like train ones just to see them, you know, the train coming at you and like,

[00:22:27] Whoa.

[00:22:28] It's like, um, it's like in silo when Julie, when they see Juliet watching the video of

[00:22:33] George and like, Whoa, he's in the room.

[00:22:39] Yeah.

[00:22:40] Yeah.

[00:22:40] It's really, yeah.

[00:22:42] And also I just want to point out that I think, so in the novella, um, Scrooge does

[00:22:49] not take the Turkey and stuff to the Cratchits himself at the end.

[00:22:54] No.

[00:22:55] In this version he does.

[00:22:57] So I guess this, and in a lot of versions after this, that happens too.

[00:23:01] So I guess this could be the first one that started that.

[00:23:05] Yeah.

[00:23:05] That started that particular twist on the story.

[00:23:08] Yeah.

[00:23:09] Yeah.

[00:23:09] Maybe.

[00:23:11] Yeah, quite possibly.

[00:23:13] Yeah.

[00:23:14] All right.

[00:23:14] Any last thoughts on these, the first of the films?

[00:23:19] Okay.

[00:23:19] No.

[00:23:19] Well, we're going to, that's a good time to take a quick break.

[00:23:22] And then we're going to be back and we're going to talk about the main classics.

[00:23:26] All right.

[00:23:27] See you in a sec.

[00:23:56] Okay.

[00:24:02] Okay, so let's start with clearly the best.

[00:24:08] Certainly the best live action.

[00:24:10] But it's certainly the best live action one.

[00:24:13] Well, okay, but you said 99, which is fair too.

[00:24:17] Yeah.

[00:24:18] But okay, Scrooge, 1951, directed by Brian Desmond Hurst,

[00:24:23] who also produced, and he is a filmmaker from Belfast.

[00:24:28] He's got 30 credits to his name, but this is by far his most famous.

[00:24:31] And the writer was Noel Langley, who's a South African-American novelist,

[00:24:36] playwright, screenwriter, director.

[00:24:39] He happens to be one of the three screenwriters, for example,

[00:24:42] credited for The Wizard of Oz, 1939.

[00:24:46] Oh, cool.

[00:24:47] Yeah.

[00:24:48] Scrooge in this version, iconically played by Alistair Sims,

[00:24:52] a Scottish theater actor who appeared in more than 50 films,

[00:24:55] but he's best known for this for sure.

[00:24:57] And I have to, normally I'm not going to call out the Marlies,

[00:25:00] but in this case, you and I both agreed, this Marley deserves attention.

[00:25:05] Yeah, the Marley is, Jacob Marley in this one,

[00:25:07] he is just giving it his all.

[00:25:09] He's got his big acting hat on.

[00:25:12] I mean, that is like proper Shakespearean,

[00:25:14] I am emoting!

[00:25:16] I am hitting the back of the wall!

[00:25:18] Oh no, he made it big, he brought it home,

[00:25:21] and it is English Shakespearean theater actor,

[00:25:25] Michael Horden.

[00:25:26] Horden.

[00:25:27] Horderne.

[00:25:28] Michael Horderne.

[00:25:30] Yeah, it's just like,

[00:25:31] he just completely steals the entire movie,

[00:25:34] and he's only in it for like five minutes.

[00:25:37] Yeah.

[00:25:38] I love that dramatic pitch.

[00:25:41] Yeah.

[00:25:41] So, Luke, what are your overall thoughts in this film?

[00:25:44] Um, I really liked it.

[00:25:46] I thought it,

[00:25:47] it makes some interesting choices,

[00:25:49] in terms of what it adds to,

[00:25:52] because in some ways it sticks very close,

[00:25:54] to the novel,

[00:25:56] there are big,

[00:25:57] you know,

[00:25:57] there are a lot of lines of dialogue that are lifted,

[00:26:00] clean from the novel.

[00:26:02] But what it adds is really interesting.

[00:26:04] So you see more of the relationship,

[00:26:07] between Scrooge and Marley,

[00:26:09] when they were alive.

[00:26:10] Right.

[00:26:11] You see them meeting, for example,

[00:26:14] and you see them as business partners,

[00:26:16] committing what has to be said,

[00:26:19] is a pretty bright piece of banking fraud.

[00:26:24] And yeah, there's also,

[00:26:25] it's a very short scene,

[00:26:28] but it's when Scrooge is on his way home,

[00:26:30] and he stops at the inn for dinner.

[00:26:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:35] And he asks the waiter for more bread,

[00:26:38] and the waiter goes,

[00:26:39] that'll be an extra half-penny.

[00:26:41] Um,

[00:26:42] and Scrooge goes,

[00:26:43] no more bread.

[00:26:44] And like,

[00:26:44] I don't know,

[00:26:45] like,

[00:26:46] quite how predecimal currency work,

[00:26:48] but I do know that a half-penny,

[00:26:50] is like the smallest,

[00:26:52] Right.

[00:26:53] unit of currency you could get.

[00:26:55] So,

[00:26:55] that's the brilliant little vignette,

[00:26:57] of just how tight-fisted,

[00:27:00] Scrooge is,

[00:27:01] that he will deny himself,

[00:27:02] the small pleasure,

[00:27:03] of a bit more bread,

[00:27:05] to save a half-penny.

[00:27:07] Right.

[00:27:08] Like,

[00:27:08] it's,

[00:27:08] it's over in less than a minute,

[00:27:10] but it's really,

[00:27:11] it's a really good little,

[00:27:13] illustrative bit,

[00:27:14] of just how,

[00:27:15] um,

[00:27:16] money-loving Scrooge is.

[00:27:18] Yeah.

[00:27:19] Yeah,

[00:27:19] that's,

[00:27:19] what I like about it is also,

[00:27:21] so that is actually one of the,

[00:27:23] because he does,

[00:27:24] in the novella,

[00:27:25] he does stop by a tavern on the way home,

[00:27:27] and that's almost never represented on film,

[00:27:29] so that is,

[00:27:30] does show why,

[00:27:32] this is a remarkably,

[00:27:33] uh,

[00:27:34] faithful film,

[00:27:35] but also,

[00:27:35] at the same time,

[00:27:36] it's very much like,

[00:27:37] it realizes,

[00:27:38] it's an adaptation,

[00:27:39] and it,

[00:27:39] it adapts.

[00:27:41] And as you said,

[00:27:42] like,

[00:27:42] it adds not just more backstory with Marley,

[00:27:45] but also,

[00:27:45] like,

[00:27:46] even,

[00:27:47] well,

[00:27:47] more backstory to the love story,

[00:27:50] more,

[00:27:50] even,

[00:27:51] um,

[00:27:52] the,

[00:27:53] the people at the end,

[00:27:54] who have his belongings,

[00:27:56] you know,

[00:27:56] who,

[00:27:57] uh,

[00:27:57] steal his belongings and sell them,

[00:27:59] they are seeded in throughout the movie.

[00:28:01] Yeah,

[00:28:02] because they're,

[00:28:02] like,

[00:28:02] two of them are working as,

[00:28:03] like,

[00:28:04] domestic staff,

[00:28:05] uh,

[00:28:05] for Scrooge,

[00:28:06] and actually,

[00:28:07] that makes that whole scene,

[00:28:08] in the pawnbrokers,

[00:28:10] much more affecting,

[00:28:12] in a way.

[00:28:12] Right.

[00:28:13] Because these aren't,

[00:28:13] these aren't three random,

[00:28:15] people.

[00:28:16] These are people that actually,

[00:28:18] took care of Scrooge,

[00:28:20] or,

[00:28:20] you know,

[00:28:20] managed his household.

[00:28:21] The other thing,

[00:28:22] from a,

[00:28:23] um,

[00:28:23] a British point of view is,

[00:28:25] um,

[00:28:25] young Scrooge is played by George Cole,

[00:28:28] um,

[00:28:29] who is,

[00:28:29] it's really weird seeing George Cole as a young man,

[00:28:32] because if you're,

[00:28:34] if you're British,

[00:28:35] you'll know George Cole as an old man,

[00:28:38] in the,

[00:28:38] in the sitcom Minder,

[00:28:40] which is like a,

[00:28:41] he's playing like,

[00:28:41] for an American,

[00:28:42] he's playing like an Archie Bunker.

[00:28:44] Okay.

[00:28:44] type character in Minder,

[00:28:46] but it's really weird to see George Cole as a young man.

[00:28:49] It's very weird.

[00:28:52] Um,

[00:28:52] and the other,

[00:28:53] the other person that's a bit,

[00:28:54] um,

[00:28:55] weird to see is Hattie Jakes,

[00:28:57] who plays,

[00:28:58] um,

[00:28:59] um,

[00:28:59] and she goes on to be a comedic actress in the,

[00:29:02] the carry on movies.

[00:29:03] Okay.

[00:29:04] In the sixties and seventies.

[00:29:06] Okay.

[00:29:06] Okay.

[00:29:07] Well,

[00:29:08] so I'm surprised that this apparently had a mixed perception at first.

[00:29:12] It was,

[00:29:13] it was a box office hit in the U S it was a flop.

[00:29:16] I'm sorry.

[00:29:16] A box office hit in the UK.

[00:29:18] It was a flop in the U S and variety called the film,

[00:29:22] a grim thing that will give tender aged kitties viewing it.

[00:29:25] The screaming meanies and adults will find it long,

[00:29:29] dull and greatly overdone.

[00:29:31] Like,

[00:29:31] damn.

[00:29:32] I can see where they're coming with the greatly overdone.

[00:29:36] There is a lot of like Shakespearean,

[00:29:38] not so much by a lot of the,

[00:29:41] a lot of the supporting cast is very stolen.

[00:29:45] It's very sort of,

[00:29:46] I've got my big acting hat on and I'm going to act.

[00:29:49] So you think that's why it did better in the UK than the U S?

[00:29:53] I think the audience might've been a bit more used to it.

[00:29:55] Yeah.

[00:29:57] Also,

[00:29:57] I think for,

[00:29:59] you know,

[00:30:00] 1951 is an interesting time in like British history and particularly the

[00:30:05] history of British cinema.

[00:30:07] Cause it's just emerging from second world war.

[00:30:11] Rationing is still a thing.

[00:30:14] And Christmas,

[00:30:16] Christmas in the UK during the second world war and the immediate post-war

[00:30:20] period,

[00:30:21] like rationing was slightly eased at Christmas.

[00:30:24] It got,

[00:30:24] rationing was a bit more generous and also rationing applied to the film

[00:30:29] industry as well.

[00:30:30] So there weren't actually all that many films getting made in the UK.

[00:30:36] To actually get the film to make a feature films,

[00:30:39] quite a long laborious process.

[00:30:41] So I think also it may have been due to lack of choice as well.

[00:30:45] Frankly,

[00:30:46] there were fewer films in the cinema in the UK at the time than there would

[00:30:50] have been in the U S.

[00:30:52] Yeah.

[00:30:53] Yeah.

[00:30:53] Well now it's considered a classic.

[00:30:55] A lot of people call it like the classic.

[00:30:58] They think it's the best version,

[00:31:00] but I,

[00:31:00] it was definitely,

[00:31:01] apparently it was airing on TV that did it,

[00:31:05] you know,

[00:31:05] that made it.

[00:31:06] Yeah.

[00:31:07] Brought it into people's homes,

[00:31:08] but the director has always been like super proud of it.

[00:31:10] He's always been showing it off.

[00:31:11] Apparently.

[00:31:13] Yeah.

[00:31:13] The one,

[00:31:14] the one downside I would say to this one is that the ghosts are less

[00:31:18] tragic,

[00:31:19] which I don't,

[00:31:20] that sounds like a weird downside,

[00:31:21] but there's no mention of Marley having to always wander or the ghost of

[00:31:27] Christmas present only living for one 12 day night.

[00:31:32] Yeah.

[00:31:33] Although it does do,

[00:31:35] it does do a very,

[00:31:36] it does do a very good representation of Marley showing Scrooge,

[00:31:41] all the other ghosts and them being chained together.

[00:31:44] That was,

[00:31:45] that was really well done for a film.

[00:31:47] Yeah.

[00:31:47] No,

[00:31:48] all of the creepy ghosty scenes were great.

[00:31:51] This is one of like the scarier versions,

[00:31:53] which I say is a good thing.

[00:31:55] Yes,

[00:31:55] it is.

[00:31:56] Yeah.

[00:31:57] And also like Alistair Sim really does sell,

[00:31:59] really does sell like terror.

[00:32:01] You really do believe he's a man in fear of his,

[00:32:03] in fear of his life.

[00:32:05] Ah,

[00:32:06] he's,

[00:32:06] he was made for this role.

[00:32:07] Brilliant.

[00:32:09] All right.

[00:32:10] So next we move on to one.

[00:32:13] I'm sorry,

[00:32:14] dear listener,

[00:32:15] if this one is your favorite,

[00:32:16] it is not mine,

[00:32:17] Luke's favorite.

[00:32:18] We won't linger on it too long.

[00:32:21] But in there,

[00:32:22] there are plus sides,

[00:32:23] which I'll bring up when we get into breaking down the different staves,

[00:32:26] but it's a Christmas Carol from 1984.

[00:32:29] This is the George C.

[00:32:31] Scott version.

[00:32:32] The director was Clive Donner,

[00:32:35] who was an editor actually of the 1951 Scrooge.

[00:32:38] We just talked about.

[00:32:39] He was a British new wave director who also did,

[00:32:43] by the way,

[00:32:43] Oliver Twist in 1982,

[00:32:44] two years earlier.

[00:32:46] So he was definitely in his like classics and Christmas era during this time.

[00:32:51] Uh,

[00:32:51] the writer was Roger O'Hearson.

[00:32:53] He was an American dramatist and screenwriter.

[00:32:57] He was best known for his books of Broadway musicals and also for Pippin.

[00:33:01] He was nominated for a Tony award for that one.

[00:33:04] And also a film called walking happy that I'm not familiar with,

[00:33:08] but apparently that's his most famous one.

[00:33:10] Um,

[00:33:11] you don't know it.

[00:33:12] Do you walk?

[00:33:12] No.

[00:33:13] No.

[00:33:14] For some reason,

[00:33:15] I always thought this one was made by the BBC,

[00:33:18] but it was not.

[00:33:19] No,

[00:33:20] it was,

[00:33:20] it is,

[00:33:22] it was,

[00:33:23] as I understand it,

[00:33:24] shown on the BBC a lot in the,

[00:33:26] in the eighties and early nineties.

[00:33:28] I don't,

[00:33:29] I think so.

[00:33:30] I don't remember seeing,

[00:33:31] I don't remember seeing it on television.

[00:33:33] I know I'd seen it before I watched it for this show,

[00:33:37] but I,

[00:33:37] I can't remember.

[00:33:39] I can't remember where or under what circumstances.

[00:33:43] I feel like I watched it in class in school actually.

[00:33:46] Okay.

[00:33:46] Um,

[00:33:48] but it wasn't theatrical release in the UK and it was released on CBS in the US.

[00:33:53] Um,

[00:33:54] Luke,

[00:33:54] go ahead.

[00:33:55] What are your thoughts on this one?

[00:33:57] I mean,

[00:33:58] I,

[00:33:58] I,

[00:33:59] it's not bad.

[00:34:00] It's not,

[00:34:01] if you listen to,

[00:34:03] all a Christmas Carol is good.

[00:34:04] A Christmas Carol.

[00:34:05] You can't,

[00:34:06] you can't really go to,

[00:34:07] I was going to say you can't really go to wrong with the Christmas Carol,

[00:34:10] but then I watched Scrooge today and boy,

[00:34:12] can't you?

[00:34:14] Um,

[00:34:15] but yeah,

[00:34:15] this is,

[00:34:16] this is not bad.

[00:34:17] If you listen to our Christmas special last year,

[00:34:20] this is not Clarence.

[00:34:21] This is not,

[00:34:22] this is not that level.

[00:34:24] I loved Clarence.

[00:34:25] It was so bad.

[00:34:25] It was good again,

[00:34:26] but,

[00:34:26] um,

[00:34:27] but I,

[00:34:28] I think the,

[00:34:28] I think the thing about this film is it's just miscast.

[00:34:32] Like,

[00:34:32] George C.

[00:34:33] Scott is a fine actor,

[00:34:35] but he's not Ebenezer Scrooge.

[00:34:37] There is just something about,

[00:34:40] it's hard to know what it is,

[00:34:42] but there's something about his performance.

[00:34:44] It's just a little bit off.

[00:34:46] And the same with David Warner as Bob Cratchit,

[00:34:51] Bob Cratchit's meant to be this very meek,

[00:34:53] very mild,

[00:34:55] very sort of retiring character.

[00:34:59] And David Warner,

[00:35:00] great character actor.

[00:35:02] loved him in,

[00:35:03] loved him in Star Trek five,

[00:35:05] loved him in Star Trek six.

[00:35:06] There's a,

[00:35:07] there's an adapt,

[00:35:08] there's a version of,

[00:35:10] um,

[00:35:11] Jacqueline Hyde,

[00:35:12] where he plays Hyde.

[00:35:13] That is,

[00:35:14] that is excellent,

[00:35:15] but he is just not Bob Cratchit.

[00:35:19] He's just not,

[00:35:21] for a start,

[00:35:21] he's too bulky.

[00:35:22] He's too big.

[00:35:24] Okay.

[00:35:24] It's too much of a presence to fade into the background in the way that Cratchit's kind of required to do.

[00:35:30] And there's one scene that kind of spoiled the entire film for me.

[00:35:34] And that's when Scrooge meets Tiny,

[00:35:37] Tiny Tim is standing outside the window of the counting house.

[00:35:41] And Scrooge actually walks out and meets him.

[00:35:46] What do you,

[00:35:47] he says something like,

[00:35:47] what are you doing here?

[00:35:48] And Tiny Tim goes,

[00:35:50] waiting for my father.

[00:35:51] And Scrooge goes,

[00:35:52] that'll,

[00:35:53] you'll be waiting a long time.

[00:35:54] And the reason that,

[00:35:56] that whole scene is Miss Kat is,

[00:36:00] um,

[00:36:00] Miss forgotten is the whole point of Scrooge is not that he's evil.

[00:36:04] It's that he's indifferent.

[00:36:06] He doesn't know about Tiny Tim's existence.

[00:36:09] He doesn't know about Cratchit's circumstances.

[00:36:12] That whole scene makes it look,

[00:36:14] well,

[00:36:15] it doesn't make it look.

[00:36:16] it shows you Scrooge is aware of Cratchit's struggles and that he just

[00:36:22] doesn't care about them.

[00:36:23] Right.

[00:36:24] And that to me is misunderstanding what,

[00:36:27] who Scrooge is and the lessons he learns.

[00:36:31] Right.

[00:36:31] Because Scrooge is not an evil guy.

[00:36:33] He's an indifferent guy.

[00:36:36] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:37] Yeah.

[00:36:37] No,

[00:36:38] I find him a charmless Scrooge,

[00:36:40] which maybe sounds weird to say,

[00:36:41] but Scrooge actually like the,

[00:36:43] the Scrooge is that we love.

[00:36:44] They have a charm,

[00:36:45] you know,

[00:36:46] they're grumpy,

[00:36:46] but you root for them because you see the goodness in them.

[00:36:51] And obviously they come around.

[00:36:52] That's the whole point.

[00:36:53] Um,

[00:36:54] it just seemed like in general,

[00:36:55] it was the least charming version of pretty much all of the characters.

[00:37:00] And it just kind of felt like a more superficial version.

[00:37:07] Um,

[00:37:09] but I did like the costumes.

[00:37:12] The costumes are good.

[00:37:12] Very Victorian,

[00:37:14] very Victorian.

[00:37:15] The production design was great in general,

[00:37:18] you know,

[00:37:19] the settings,

[00:37:20] the,

[00:37:21] everything that all looked good.

[00:37:23] Um,

[00:37:24] but overall it didn't live up to my memories.

[00:37:27] It was rather stagey.

[00:37:29] Like,

[00:37:29] and that's,

[00:37:29] you know,

[00:37:30] I don't mind something.

[00:37:31] It's,

[00:37:31] this is ripe to,

[00:37:33] it should be recall a stage production to a certain degree,

[00:37:36] because that's part of the pedigree of this story.

[00:37:39] Absolutely.

[00:37:39] From the beginning.

[00:37:40] Um,

[00:37:41] but this was just not,

[00:37:43] it was like the actors were just going through the motions without mining the emotional depths of the tale.

[00:37:49] And I just felt like the direction was lacking.

[00:37:52] Yeah.

[00:37:52] I think that's right.

[00:37:53] And the,

[00:37:53] and the other thing,

[00:37:54] the other thing I don't like about it,

[00:37:55] and I do think this is where you tell the,

[00:37:58] where you tell the wheat from the chaff when it comes to Christmas carol adaptations is.

[00:38:06] Because Scrooge should go on a journey with all four ghosts.

[00:38:11] He should,

[00:38:12] his character should change subtly throughout the film.

[00:38:16] It shouldn't get to ghost of Christmas yet to come.

[00:38:20] And all of a sudden,

[00:38:21] like that's when he has like a Damascene conversion to being a good guy,

[00:38:26] because it shouldn't be about try to just conversion.

[00:38:31] Shouldn't be about trying to avoid a bad death.

[00:38:35] It should be about living.

[00:38:36] It should be about living a good life.

[00:38:39] Yeah.

[00:38:40] Yeah.

[00:38:41] And it does feel like this one puts a lot of,

[00:38:43] puts like a lot of weight for the redemption on the ghost of Christmas yet to come.

[00:38:50] Like he's arguing backwards and forwards with the ghost of Christmas past and the ghost of Christmas present.

[00:38:56] He's actually,

[00:38:57] he's actually trying to engage them in a dialogue about why he's right and they're wrong.

[00:39:03] And then when it gets to the ghost of Christmas yet to come,

[00:39:06] that's when you get the turn into,

[00:39:08] he's going to change.

[00:39:10] And that's,

[00:39:11] that to me is the wrong way of looking at it.

[00:39:12] The change should come gradually over the entire course of the evening.

[00:39:18] Um,

[00:39:19] there are some positives that I have,

[00:39:21] but I'm going to save them for where we're,

[00:39:22] when we're talking about that is Dave side by side.

[00:39:25] But,

[00:39:25] um,

[00:39:26] for now let's move on to one that you and I both liked a lot better.

[00:39:29] So yeah,

[00:39:29] apologies to the 1984 fans.

[00:39:31] I will say some nice things about it.

[00:39:33] I promise.

[00:39:33] But for now,

[00:39:34] yeah,

[00:39:34] they're all good things in there.

[00:39:36] But for now,

[00:39:37] one that we are more positive on the 1999,

[00:39:40] a Christmas Carol directed by David Jones,

[00:39:43] who's English director,

[00:39:44] especially of theater.

[00:39:45] Um,

[00:39:46] he,

[00:39:47] and it was written by Peter Barnes.

[00:39:49] He is an Olivier award winning playwright and screenwriter.

[00:39:52] He's best known for the play,

[00:39:54] the ruling class,

[00:39:55] which was made into a 1972 film,

[00:39:58] which Peter O'Toole received an Oscar nomination for.

[00:40:01] And this Christmas Carol was one of his last productions.

[00:40:05] Scrooge in this one is iconically Patrick Stewart.

[00:40:07] And we also,

[00:40:08] I want to call out the Bob Cratchit is played by Richard E.

[00:40:11] Grant,

[00:40:11] who I also adore,

[00:40:13] by the way,

[00:40:14] did you watch the franchise?

[00:40:16] On HBO.

[00:40:17] Oh,

[00:40:18] you might,

[00:40:18] yeah,

[00:40:18] you might enjoy that one.

[00:40:20] It's like a parody of,

[00:40:21] uh,

[00:40:21] the,

[00:40:22] like making.

[00:40:24] Okay.

[00:40:24] Marvel films basically.

[00:40:26] Yeah.

[00:40:28] Um,

[00:40:29] but anyway,

[00:40:29] yeah,

[00:40:29] this was actually filmed for TV for TNT.

[00:40:32] Although I just,

[00:40:33] I have to point out it's technically a Hallmark production.

[00:40:36] Yeah.

[00:40:37] It's,

[00:40:37] it's weird.

[00:40:38] It's in that brief,

[00:40:40] it's in that brief window of time.

[00:40:42] Cause I,

[00:40:43] I go down a Hallmark rabbit hole every Christmas.

[00:40:46] I find Hallmark to be endlessly fascinating.

[00:40:49] It's like a production company.

[00:40:51] There's a brief window of time at the end of the nineties,

[00:40:55] beginning of the noughties where Hallmark decide they want to make TV,

[00:41:00] but they're not,

[00:41:01] they haven't settled on the Hallmark formula yet.

[00:41:06] Hmm.

[00:41:07] Um,

[00:41:08] so,

[00:41:08] so you get these kind of,

[00:41:11] a lot,

[00:41:12] a lot of them are sort of classic tales adapted,

[00:41:15] but you do get this kind of much broader palette of,

[00:41:20] um,

[00:41:21] made for TV movies where they're,

[00:41:23] they're clearly trying to find,

[00:41:26] they're clearly trying to find their metier.

[00:41:28] They're clearly trying to find the formula,

[00:41:30] but they haven't quite got there yet.

[00:41:33] Hmm.

[00:41:34] Yeah.

[00:41:35] Yeah.

[00:41:36] Yeah.

[00:41:37] And as you mentioned,

[00:41:38] um,

[00:41:38] this was definitely,

[00:41:39] this happened because of the success of those one man shows that Patrick

[00:41:44] Stewart was putting on in London and on Broadway of this story.

[00:41:48] So that basically made it happen.

[00:41:50] And then they cited the 1951 film,

[00:41:53] the Alistair Sim film as a primary inspiration.

[00:41:56] So Luke,

[00:41:58] why do you like this version so much?

[00:42:01] I just,

[00:42:02] I mean,

[00:42:03] it's,

[00:42:03] it's a good version all the way through,

[00:42:05] but when we,

[00:42:05] when we're doing the comparison,

[00:42:07] I think this has the best version of Christmas,

[00:42:10] a Christmas present.

[00:42:12] Okay.

[00:42:12] Uh,

[00:42:13] of that stave.

[00:42:14] I think it has the best version of that in any of the adaptations.

[00:42:17] Okay.

[00:42:18] We look at it's,

[00:42:19] it really does get that sense of strong contenders for that one.

[00:42:22] That's yeah.

[00:42:23] That's one of my favorite ghosts.

[00:42:24] It really does get that sense of excitement and Christmas morning.

[00:42:29] And like the,

[00:42:30] the,

[00:42:30] the way it does the cratchets Christmas is really,

[00:42:33] really good.

[00:42:34] And the way it goes to,

[00:42:35] to nephew Fred's Christmas,

[00:42:38] that looks,

[00:42:38] that's really well staged.

[00:42:40] It looks incredibly inviting.

[00:42:41] They do the thing with the poker and the,

[00:42:45] um,

[00:42:45] the mulled wine and sticking the poker in it.

[00:42:48] And yeah,

[00:42:49] there's a very Fred,

[00:42:51] um,

[00:42:52] Fred,

[00:42:52] uh,

[00:42:53] Fred Scrooge is played by a very,

[00:42:55] very young Dominic West,

[00:42:56] um,

[00:42:57] as well,

[00:42:58] which is one of the earliest,

[00:42:59] one of the earliest roles I've seen.

[00:43:02] Yeah.

[00:43:03] Yeah.

[00:43:03] Yeah.

[00:43:03] This,

[00:43:03] this is a super faithful adaptation.

[00:43:06] Um,

[00:43:07] although sometimes it does make it feel like it's speed running through the book plot,

[00:43:10] but it does also like pause and take the time to add extra poignancy in depth to certain moments that the casting is obviously really good.

[00:43:19] Um,

[00:43:20] my,

[00:43:21] my great love is still the 1951 version,

[00:43:23] but I just,

[00:43:24] I really like how this one leads into the funniest sides from,

[00:43:27] from the novella,

[00:43:28] which you and I talked about in our novella episode.

[00:43:31] Yeah.

[00:43:32] it even does,

[00:43:33] it even has Molly's funeral and even has the dead as a door nail.

[00:43:39] Right.

[00:43:40] Exactly.

[00:43:40] It even has the whole dead as a door nail.

[00:43:42] So it's,

[00:43:44] um,

[00:43:44] that's,

[00:43:45] that's how loyal it is to the novella.

[00:43:48] But it's funny,

[00:43:49] you know,

[00:43:50] the,

[00:43:50] you can watch it on YouTube.

[00:43:52] There's a link in the show notes,

[00:43:53] but,

[00:43:53] um,

[00:43:54] a,

[00:43:54] it's,

[00:43:55] it has commercial breaks built in.

[00:43:57] Like it's one of the more quality versions,

[00:43:59] but it was made for TV.

[00:44:00] Yeah.

[00:44:02] Um,

[00:44:02] yeah.

[00:44:03] What I find really amazing about Patrick Stewart's performances,

[00:44:07] Patrick Stewart,

[00:44:08] but obviously that point in his career is really recognizable as professor X,

[00:44:14] as Jean-Luc.

[00:44:15] Right.

[00:44:15] But you never,

[00:44:17] never want.

[00:44:18] No.

[00:44:19] Think about that.

[00:44:20] No,

[00:44:20] you never want to think about that.

[00:44:22] Yeah.

[00:44:23] Yeah.

[00:44:25] What do you think of the special effects in this one?

[00:44:28] They're not its strongest point.

[00:44:30] They're not its strongest.

[00:44:31] I mean,

[00:44:31] they,

[00:44:32] they look a little dated,

[00:44:33] but it's,

[00:44:33] they're kind of charming in that way.

[00:44:35] You know,

[00:44:35] they are.

[00:44:37] It places it,

[00:44:38] at a moment.

[00:44:39] If you hit me with like a big choral version of silent night,

[00:44:44] you're going to hit me straight in the fields.

[00:44:46] Like,

[00:44:46] yeah.

[00:44:47] Yeah.

[00:44:47] That just,

[00:44:48] the whole scene with the miners and the,

[00:44:51] the sailors and yeah,

[00:44:53] just got me right there.

[00:44:56] Mm hmm.

[00:44:57] Yeah.

[00:44:57] Yeah.

[00:44:58] All right.

[00:44:59] Well,

[00:44:59] we'll,

[00:44:59] we'll come back and talk about this more when we put them all head to

[00:45:02] head.

[00:45:03] Um,

[00:45:03] but switching gears,

[00:45:05] we're going to talk about what many people consider the OG musical.

[00:45:08] There actually is an older one,

[00:45:10] but it was considered lost and is been mostly found.

[00:45:14] We're going to,

[00:45:14] that's definitely on the list for next year too.

[00:45:16] But this year we're talking about Scrooge from 1970,

[00:45:21] starring Albert Finney,

[00:45:24] who,

[00:45:24] AKA daddy Warbucks for any other Annie fans out there.

[00:45:29] Um,

[00:45:30] this one was directed by Ronald Neem and he is best known.

[00:45:36] Oh yeah.

[00:45:36] He got an,

[00:45:37] uh,

[00:45:37] Academy award nomination for special effects for his British war film.

[00:45:42] Um,

[00:45:42] not in 1943,

[00:45:43] one of our aircraft.

[00:45:45] And he also produced,

[00:45:48] um,

[00:45:49] great expectations and Oliver twisty.

[00:45:51] Like,

[00:45:51] you know,

[00:45:51] he's,

[00:45:51] he was super big in the forties.

[00:45:53] This is 1970.

[00:45:55] He's received several Academy award nominations for writing,

[00:45:59] but he shifted toward directing.

[00:46:01] And this is kind of toward the end of the height of his career.

[00:46:04] The writer was Leslie Bricuse,

[00:46:07] who's known especially for musicals and music and lyrics across films.

[00:46:11] Like,

[00:46:12] especially you might,

[00:46:12] you might know a little film called Willy Wonka.

[00:46:15] Oh yes.

[00:46:16] Oh yes.

[00:46:18] Or certain,

[00:46:18] uh,

[00:46:19] songs from James Bond films.

[00:46:21] And,

[00:46:21] um,

[00:46:21] the score was arranged and conducted by Ian Fraser.

[00:46:25] And the posters,

[00:46:26] I love this.

[00:46:27] The posters for Scrooge included the tagline,

[00:46:29] what the Dickens have they done to Scrooge?

[00:46:32] Because people hate musicals.

[00:46:34] That's still a thing.

[00:46:36] They think they hate musicals and then they love them.

[00:46:40] It was a modest financial success though.

[00:46:43] And the reviews,

[00:46:43] they leaned positive and Finney won the golden globe award for best actor in a

[00:46:49] musical and comedy,

[00:46:50] 1971.

[00:46:50] 2021.

[00:46:51] And the film received four Academy award nominations,

[00:46:54] including best original song for thank you very much.

[00:46:59] Uh,

[00:47:00] sorry for anyone who has that in your head.

[00:47:02] You're welcome.

[00:47:03] Uh,

[00:47:03] but also for score,

[00:47:04] costume design and art direction.

[00:47:06] So Luke,

[00:47:07] what were your overall thoughts in this one?

[00:47:10] I enjoyed the heck out of this.

[00:47:12] Um,

[00:47:14] by the way,

[00:47:14] I've got,

[00:47:14] thank you very,

[00:47:15] thank you very much.

[00:47:16] Thank you very much.

[00:47:18] That's the nicest thing that anybody's ever,

[00:47:20] that has been grinding through my head.

[00:47:22] It's three days solid now.

[00:47:25] I might need surgery to get that thing.

[00:47:29] Worthy Academy award nominee.

[00:47:30] Absolutely.

[00:47:32] Um,

[00:47:33] and I,

[00:47:34] I,

[00:47:34] I'm not surprised that it got,

[00:47:36] um,

[00:47:37] nominated for cinematography because the street scenes,

[00:47:41] when they're walking through Camden town on all the shops and stalls,

[00:47:45] it all looks really colorful and inviting.

[00:47:50] Um,

[00:47:52] and again,

[00:47:53] very strong Cratchit like the Cratchit,

[00:47:57] um,

[00:47:57] like the entire,

[00:47:58] the entire family Cratchit in this.

[00:48:01] Um,

[00:48:02] I do have a couple of niggles.

[00:48:04] I actually don't like Albert Finney's performance very much.

[00:48:09] I think he sort of plays Scrooge as he almost goes a bit too far.

[00:48:16] He kind of plays him as a bit of a hobgoblin type of figure.

[00:48:20] And also,

[00:48:21] I don't know whether this is deliberate or whether it's just Albert

[00:48:24] Finney's singing voice,

[00:48:25] but when he's singing the songs,

[00:48:27] he's got a really unpleasant,

[00:48:30] um,

[00:48:31] singing voice.

[00:48:32] One of,

[00:48:33] one of my notes in here is that,

[00:48:35] uh,

[00:48:35] movie doesn't care if some of the cast can't sing.

[00:48:38] Most of the musicals numbers are subdued anyway.

[00:48:42] Albert Finney definitely can't.

[00:48:45] It's like Pierce Brosnan levels.

[00:48:48] Yeah.

[00:48:49] Well,

[00:48:49] that's the thing.

[00:48:50] On the musical side,

[00:48:51] it's like the,

[00:48:52] there is that one standout song.

[00:48:55] And then the other ones are just kind of,

[00:48:57] I couldn't tell you another song that's in the film right now.

[00:49:00] We're going to watch,

[00:49:01] uh,

[00:49:01] for the twists.

[00:49:02] We're going to watch one.

[00:49:03] That's kind of a loose remake of this.

[00:49:05] So that might jog our heads a little bit,

[00:49:07] but I have a feeling at the end of it,

[00:49:08] we're still just going to be singing.

[00:49:10] Thank you very much.

[00:49:11] Thank you very much.

[00:49:12] By the way,

[00:49:13] the choreography to thank you very much.

[00:49:15] Oh,

[00:49:16] is brilliant as well.

[00:49:18] Yeah,

[00:49:18] absolutely.

[00:49:19] Yeah.

[00:49:20] Yeah.

[00:49:20] But it is like,

[00:49:21] they put everything into that one,

[00:49:23] that one song.

[00:49:25] Yeah.

[00:49:26] They're like,

[00:49:26] this is,

[00:49:26] this is it.

[00:49:27] This is the money shot.

[00:49:28] Yeah.

[00:49:29] But the thing is,

[00:49:29] out of all the musicals that I've watched so far for this project,

[00:49:33] like that is a song that's still stuck in my head.

[00:49:35] Like I,

[00:49:36] I'm in the middle of spirited right now that my second rewatch and I,

[00:49:39] you know,

[00:49:40] there's some good songs in there,

[00:49:41] but none of them that I'm going to be singing for like two weeks.

[00:49:44] Like,

[00:49:45] thank you very much.

[00:49:46] And also I,

[00:49:47] this is like where it gets quite far away from the novella,

[00:49:51] but the scene where like Scrooge is given a guided tour of hell.

[00:49:56] Oh yeah.

[00:49:56] By Marley.

[00:49:57] Bravo.

[00:49:59] Yeah.

[00:50:00] Just,

[00:50:00] just chef's kiss.

[00:50:03] Yeah.

[00:50:03] We're obviously going to get back to talking about that.

[00:50:06] Yeah.

[00:50:06] Yeah.

[00:50:07] But yeah,

[00:50:07] this is,

[00:50:08] it's not really like one of the most faithful adaptations.

[00:50:11] It still is,

[00:50:12] you know,

[00:50:12] when it comes to the twist,

[00:50:13] it's not in the twist realm.

[00:50:14] It's still definitely that story,

[00:50:16] but there's like a warmth and like a kind of,

[00:50:21] it's a camp story.

[00:50:22] You know,

[00:50:23] I read that quote in the novella episode from,

[00:50:26] you know,

[00:50:26] the intro to the 1905 version of the novella where they're saying like Charles Dickens

[00:50:31] loves some high camp bitch.

[00:50:33] Basically I'm paraphrasing.

[00:50:35] Yeah,

[00:50:35] he does.

[00:50:37] And this is a camp story,

[00:50:39] but it has like warmth and silliness.

[00:50:41] And I,

[00:50:41] yeah,

[00:50:41] it's kind of one of my favorites in this list.

[00:50:45] No.

[00:50:45] Yeah.

[00:50:47] Also,

[00:50:47] also Kenneth Moore as the ghost of Christmas present under some very,

[00:50:53] very,

[00:50:54] very heavy prosthetic makeup.

[00:50:57] If you didn't tell me that was Kenneth Moore,

[00:51:00] I wouldn't have found that out.

[00:51:01] And that is such,

[00:51:02] that is such a different role for him to play.

[00:51:05] Like growing up,

[00:51:07] Kenneth Moore was always the guy.

[00:51:09] He always played the hero in like second world war films.

[00:51:13] So he was Douglas Bader.

[00:51:15] He was the commander out of,

[00:51:17] um,

[00:51:18] sink the Bismarck.

[00:51:19] You know,

[00:51:19] he's got this classic sort of forties,

[00:51:22] fifties film star,

[00:51:24] um,

[00:51:25] looks.

[00:51:26] And by the 1970s,

[00:51:27] he kind of transitioned into doing television.

[00:51:30] But like,

[00:51:31] if you'd ask me to name a character to play an avuncular giant,

[00:51:37] Kenneth Moore would have been the last person I would have picked for that role.

[00:51:42] And yet he does it perfectly fine.

[00:51:45] Yeah.

[00:51:45] Yeah.

[00:51:46] So,

[00:51:47] okay.

[00:51:47] I have to read a quote from my letterbox review of this film.

[00:51:50] So some of the changes are for the better,

[00:51:52] a better look at the heyday of Scrooge's great love.

[00:51:55] Some a bit confusing.

[00:51:57] Isabel's daughter is married to his nephew or what?

[00:52:00] Some outright ludicrous.

[00:52:02] I'm pretty sure Scrooge's over the top generosity at the end,

[00:52:06] bankrupted his business in a single day,

[00:52:09] but it all works somehow in this fuzzier,

[00:52:11] dancier alternative to Scrooge reality and the hell sequence edition.

[00:52:15] Was an inspired choice.

[00:52:17] But also,

[00:52:18] don't you just love the fact that in thank you very much,

[00:52:21] Scrooge just completely got the right end of the stick.

[00:52:24] Yeah.

[00:52:25] Yeah.

[00:52:26] What'd you think of the opening animated opening title sequence?

[00:52:30] I quite liked it.

[00:52:32] It was,

[00:52:32] it was different.

[00:52:33] It was,

[00:52:34] it was a,

[00:52:36] it was hand painted and it was done by Ronald Cyril,

[00:52:40] who is a famous British illustrator.

[00:52:43] And,

[00:52:43] um,

[00:52:44] just to quote art of the title,

[00:52:46] they said,

[00:52:47] as is often the case with Cyril's illustrations,

[00:52:50] the forms jump and squiggle into shape,

[00:52:52] the strokes loose and sprightly in each scene,

[00:52:55] swaths of color and life pour out while snowflakes dotting the brush strokes.

[00:53:00] The illustrations later appeared in the book Scrooge by Elaine Donaldson published in 1970.

[00:53:06] So,

[00:53:07] yeah,

[00:53:07] it was a strong opening.

[00:53:09] Um,

[00:53:10] I mean,

[00:53:11] I think,

[00:53:11] yeah,

[00:53:11] it,

[00:53:11] it holds a place in the cultural zeitgeist as like the first remembered musical,

[00:53:16] even if,

[00:53:17] even if it wasn't technically the first musical version,

[00:53:21] the other songs are remember are not so memorable.

[00:53:24] I do notice they make Scrooge more angry rather than indifferent to start,

[00:53:28] you know,

[00:53:29] we're going to talk about that a lot.

[00:53:32] It was also very dramatic.

[00:53:34] It was a musical,

[00:53:35] you know,

[00:53:35] but there's a lot of wire work for the actors.

[00:53:37] So I feel like they're feeling out like the extent of their technology.

[00:53:42] I love the fact that to emphasize the point that Scrooge loves money,

[00:53:47] literally goes to sleep with a little purse.

[00:53:50] Yeah.

[00:53:50] Goes to sleep with a little purse hanging around his neck.

[00:53:53] In case you missed it.

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:55] But this one,

[00:53:56] yeah,

[00:53:56] it is beloved.

[00:53:57] So in 1992,

[00:53:58] they made a stage version called Scrooge the musical.

[00:54:01] And as I said,

[00:54:03] next,

[00:54:03] uh,

[00:54:03] in the twists episode,

[00:54:04] we're going to talk about a more recent remake,

[00:54:07] the 2022 Scrooge,

[00:54:09] a Christmas Carol,

[00:54:10] which is an animated film on Netflix.

[00:54:12] That is a loose remake of this,

[00:54:15] but to add some sci-fi time travel elements.

[00:54:17] I've got to say,

[00:54:18] I've been listening to the original cast recording of that 1992 stage play.

[00:54:23] Um,

[00:54:24] and it actually,

[00:54:24] it's,

[00:54:25] if,

[00:54:25] let me put it this way.

[00:54:26] If I ever get a chance to see that on stage,

[00:54:29] I will definitely take it.

[00:54:31] Yeah.

[00:54:32] Yeah.

[00:54:32] I would too.

[00:54:33] Yeah.

[00:54:33] Yeah.

[00:54:34] Especially with a good cast.

[00:54:35] It'd be a lot of fun.

[00:54:36] Yeah.

[00:54:37] All right.

[00:54:37] Any final thoughts in this one before we go into?

[00:54:40] No,

[00:54:40] except I will be singing.

[00:54:42] Thank you very much.

[00:54:43] From now.

[00:54:45] Thank very much for the very fucking song.

[00:54:49] Yeah.

[00:54:50] Stuck in my cerebellum forever.

[00:54:54] All right.

[00:54:55] so,

[00:54:55] uh,

[00:54:56] there's three films in this last version.

[00:54:58] Um,

[00:54:59] I kind of lumped a Christmas Carol,

[00:55:01] the 1971 animated shorts in here,

[00:55:04] but I'm not really sure that it's the most child friendly of the versions,

[00:55:08] to be honest.

[00:55:08] I guess it is like,

[00:55:10] they don't even have alcohol in it.

[00:55:12] So I guess it's,

[00:55:12] um,

[00:55:14] but it is,

[00:55:14] it,

[00:55:15] it,

[00:55:15] it's an Oscar winner.

[00:55:16] It won best animated short for its year.

[00:55:20] It's 25 minutes long.

[00:55:21] It was originally,

[00:55:23] it was released on ABC in the U S and then later they released it theatrically

[00:55:28] because it was so popular.

[00:55:29] But then some industry people were like,

[00:55:32] Oh,

[00:55:33] well,

[00:55:34] how can a film that was originally released on TV when an Oscar,

[00:55:38] it has to be released in a theater first.

[00:55:39] So they ended up changing the rules because of this.

[00:55:42] And saying any film that was released on TV first is disqualified for an Oscar.

[00:55:47] Like you snobby bitches.

[00:55:49] Yeah.

[00:55:50] By the way,

[00:55:51] like in the UK,

[00:55:52] this used to be on like hard repeat on the BBC,

[00:55:57] on the BBC when I was a kid.

[00:56:00] Okay.

[00:56:01] And I think it had been,

[00:56:02] it had been for at least a previous generation.

[00:56:04] Cause if you look on the YouTube comments underneath it,

[00:56:08] you have like tons of people going up.

[00:56:10] I remember this.

[00:56:11] This is Christmas.

[00:56:14] Yeah.

[00:56:15] Well,

[00:56:15] to be fair,

[00:56:16] I think it's probably well free to show it's,

[00:56:18] it's readily available on YouTube.

[00:56:20] You can find the link in the show notes.

[00:56:22] Yeah.

[00:56:22] It was one of those things you had this and you had the Raymond Briggs snowman.

[00:56:26] Mm hmm.

[00:56:28] Um,

[00:56:28] animated short as well,

[00:56:30] but yeah,

[00:56:30] like actually sort of rewatching.

[00:56:33] This is almost,

[00:56:34] this is almost,

[00:56:35] was I did rewatch it,

[00:56:36] but it was almost kind of pointless because I could tell you what happened in that beat for beats without having needed to watch it.

[00:56:44] Basically.

[00:56:45] Do you consider it a scary adaptation?

[00:56:48] It did scare me when I was a kid,

[00:56:50] but then again,

[00:56:51] most things did.

[00:56:52] So.

[00:56:54] Yeah.

[00:56:54] I never watched it as a kid.

[00:56:55] This is my first time watching it.

[00:56:57] So,

[00:56:58] um,

[00:56:58] yeah,

[00:56:58] I,

[00:56:59] I,

[00:56:59] I can see though where that comes from.

[00:57:01] Yeah.

[00:57:03] so the director was Richard Williams.

[00:57:05] He was the animation director on who,

[00:57:07] who framed Roger rabbit.

[00:57:09] Maybe you've heard of that one.

[00:57:11] And he,

[00:57:12] he won two Academy awards for that one.

[00:57:14] And obviously he won the Academy award for this one.

[00:57:17] And,

[00:57:18] um,

[00:57:18] the only writer credit on this one is Dickens.

[00:57:21] So they're basically saying like,

[00:57:23] we are being super faithful.

[00:57:25] Well,

[00:57:26] you kind of are,

[00:57:27] but it's only 25 minutes long.

[00:57:29] Exactly.

[00:57:29] What are you going to do in 25 minutes?

[00:57:30] Um,

[00:57:32] but I should credit that the art style is a lot due to Ken Harris,

[00:57:36] who is credited as the master animator.

[00:57:39] And he's part of like,

[00:57:40] there's a whole cadre of Looney tunes and WB alumni working on this film.

[00:57:46] And he's one of them,

[00:57:47] but most notably they brought back Alistair Sim as Scrooge and Michael

[00:57:53] Horn,

[00:57:54] uh,

[00:57:54] Horton as Marley,

[00:57:56] AKA,

[00:57:57] you know,

[00:57:57] the two actors from the 1951 film,

[00:57:59] but they were totally different in this one.

[00:58:02] I thought,

[00:58:02] what do you think?

[00:58:04] Well,

[00:58:05] let's put it this way.

[00:58:06] You can definitely tell that Alistair Sim was like 30 years older.

[00:58:09] This is much more an old man's performance in the 1951 one.

[00:58:14] And yeah,

[00:58:15] it clearly taken Michael Holton aside and told tone it down,

[00:58:19] tone it.

[00:58:20] No.

[00:58:23] I mean,

[00:58:23] you can see the directing's definitely different.

[00:58:25] Yeah.

[00:58:26] Yeah.

[00:58:27] What are your overall thoughts on this one?

[00:58:28] Um,

[00:58:29] I mean,

[00:58:30] again,

[00:58:30] this is kind of like with the Muppets.

[00:58:32] I can't,

[00:58:33] I can't separate this from a well of nostalgia and,

[00:58:37] and yeah,

[00:58:39] but it's,

[00:58:40] it's,

[00:58:41] it's a very good,

[00:58:42] it's a very good children's adaptation.

[00:58:44] I think of a Christmas Carol because it,

[00:58:47] it does a Christmas Carol is meant,

[00:58:50] it is a ghost story.

[00:58:52] It is meant to be,

[00:58:53] um,

[00:58:54] it is meant to be scary that particularly when Marley shows up,

[00:58:59] you know,

[00:58:59] that is right.

[00:59:00] That is played for horror.

[00:59:02] Um,

[00:59:03] and I think it's,

[00:59:04] I think in 25 minutes,

[00:59:07] um,

[00:59:08] it really does get to the,

[00:59:10] it cuts a fair bit out,

[00:59:12] but it does get the essence of the story.

[00:59:15] Across.

[00:59:16] Yeah.

[00:59:17] Quite well.

[00:59:18] Yeah.

[00:59:19] Yeah,

[00:59:20] no,

[00:59:20] yeah,

[00:59:20] I think it's surprisingly faithful given the short run time.

[00:59:23] Um,

[00:59:24] but yet the,

[00:59:25] the pacing always feels on point despite,

[00:59:27] you know,

[00:59:28] the fact that it's so short,

[00:59:29] it doesn't feel rushed.

[00:59:31] No,

[00:59:31] it doesn't.

[00:59:32] I love,

[00:59:33] obviously,

[00:59:34] like I said that they,

[00:59:35] they brought back the Scrooge and Marley,

[00:59:37] my Scrooge and Marley,

[00:59:38] but,

[00:59:39] but it is like all of the characters deliveries of the classic lines don't work

[00:59:44] as well for me as they did in the 1951 film.

[00:59:47] And I think it's because they were like told to be more subdued basically.

[00:59:51] Yes,

[00:59:52] definitely.

[00:59:54] And I appreciate the animation style more than I personally love it.

[00:59:59] Although I appreciate,

[01:00:01] or I love that they do add like the most book faithful touches.

[01:00:06] For instance,

[01:00:07] uh,

[01:00:08] the ghost of Christmas past.

[01:00:09] We're going to talk about that when we get into the individual staves,

[01:00:12] but this is of the ones we're talking about this year.

[01:00:16] This is the most faithful ghost of Christmas past.

[01:00:19] Yeah.

[01:00:19] Yeah.

[01:00:20] And yeah,

[01:00:21] I can see why this one,

[01:00:23] the animated short Oscar for sure.

[01:00:25] Um,

[01:00:25] just the animation in general lets them be very visually faithful.

[01:00:31] Um,

[01:00:32] yeah,

[01:00:32] it works for me.

[01:00:34] Yeah.

[01:00:34] Any other thoughts on this one?

[01:00:36] No,

[01:00:36] it's like,

[01:00:36] like I say,

[01:00:37] it's like taking a,

[01:00:38] it's like taking a warm bath in nostalgia.

[01:00:42] It's great.

[01:00:44] Well,

[01:00:44] now that you've dipped your toe in the water,

[01:00:46] get ready to,

[01:00:47] you know,

[01:00:48] cuddle into the bath.

[01:00:49] So we're going to talk about your favorite.

[01:00:51] I know a lot of people at home.

[01:00:53] This is a lot of people's favorite.

[01:00:55] The Muppet Christmas Carol,

[01:00:57] 1992.

[01:00:58] This was only the fourth Muppets theatrical film.

[01:01:02] And I just want to point out,

[01:01:04] uh,

[01:01:04] that we watched the version with the cut song when love is gone.

[01:01:08] Right?

[01:01:09] Yes.

[01:01:10] Yeah.

[01:01:10] And,

[01:01:11] and actually I'm,

[01:01:13] I'm,

[01:01:13] I'm sorry because last year when I watched it on,

[01:01:16] um,

[01:01:18] Disney plus,

[01:01:18] I was like,

[01:01:19] where's the song?

[01:01:22] The version I had on VHS.

[01:01:25] That's right.

[01:01:26] That's the version we watched.

[01:01:28] Um,

[01:01:29] I don't know when that song,

[01:01:31] when the love is gone was cut.

[01:01:33] Was it cut from the theatrical?

[01:01:35] Yeah,

[01:01:36] it was cut from the theatrical version,

[01:01:37] but it's in a lot of the home releases because basically they're like,

[01:01:40] it's too sad for children because it's about Scrooge and you know,

[01:01:44] his girl breaking up.

[01:01:45] But yeah,

[01:01:46] I,

[01:01:46] I,

[01:01:46] for me,

[01:01:46] it's the best song in the whole thing.

[01:01:48] It definitely is.

[01:01:49] So if,

[01:01:50] if you are watching on Disney plus,

[01:01:52] which is how I think both of us watched it,

[01:01:54] it's not,

[01:01:55] um,

[01:01:55] the main Disney plus version has that song cut.

[01:01:59] But if you go to the extras,

[01:02:01] if you open the movie,

[01:02:03] um,

[01:02:03] go to the extras tab under the extras tab,

[01:02:06] you'll see one that says like full version or something like that.

[01:02:09] And that has a song in it.

[01:02:10] And there's also,

[01:02:11] you can just watch the scene on its own under the extras tab as well.

[01:02:14] Yeah.

[01:02:14] But I'm,

[01:02:15] I'm so,

[01:02:15] I'm so relieved that I got to watch the proper version of it.

[01:02:19] Right.

[01:02:20] Yeah.

[01:02:20] Cause it was,

[01:02:21] it was so disconcerting.

[01:02:22] Why would they not make that like the main version?

[01:02:26] Like,

[01:02:26] come on.

[01:02:27] No,

[01:02:27] it's yeah.

[01:02:28] What are you talking about?

[01:02:29] It's too sad.

[01:02:31] No,

[01:02:31] it's,

[01:02:32] it's,

[01:02:32] it makes the film.

[01:02:34] Children need to understand depth.

[01:02:35] I wouldn't go quite that far,

[01:02:36] but yeah,

[01:02:37] it's.

[01:02:37] For me,

[01:02:38] it does.

[01:02:39] The film.

[01:02:40] So,

[01:02:41] so yeah,

[01:02:41] this is,

[01:02:42] this is,

[01:02:43] this is my favorite version of,

[01:02:46] um,

[01:02:48] this is my favorite film version of the Christmas Carol.

[01:02:50] It's where I was originally,

[01:02:52] like I said,

[01:02:52] in the introductory episode,

[01:02:54] where I was originally introduced to the story.

[01:02:57] Um,

[01:02:58] it was,

[01:02:59] the last Christmas present I was bought by both of my grandparents on my mom's,

[01:03:06] on my mom's side.

[01:03:07] Um,

[01:03:08] so I got the VHS of this and my brother got the VHS of Aladdin,

[01:03:12] the,

[01:03:12] the,

[01:03:13] the Disney.

[01:03:13] Um,

[01:03:14] I like his.

[01:03:14] Oh,

[01:03:15] they came out.

[01:03:16] They were competing head to head in the theater.

[01:03:19] Yeah.

[01:03:20] Um,

[01:03:21] so yeah,

[01:03:21] I mean,

[01:03:22] I just,

[01:03:22] I,

[01:03:23] I am here to tell the story and I am here for the food.

[01:03:27] It made me laugh when I was eight.

[01:03:28] It made me laugh when I'm 41.

[01:03:31] There is,

[01:03:32] there's so many great lines in this.

[01:03:34] Um,

[01:03:36] Mr.

[01:03:36] Dickens,

[01:03:37] Charlie,

[01:03:38] are you hoots?

[01:03:39] Didn't even break his concentration.

[01:03:42] Okay.

[01:03:43] How do you know what they're doing?

[01:03:45] We're down here and they're up there.

[01:03:47] Storytellers are omniscient.

[01:03:48] Oh,

[01:03:49] hoity,

[01:03:49] hoity,

[01:03:49] Mr.

[01:03:50] Godlike powers.

[01:03:52] No,

[01:03:53] I'm really glad that this one brings so many people so much joy.

[01:03:59] Um,

[01:03:59] Jim Henson,

[01:04:00] who's the son of Jim Henson.

[01:04:02] And it was,

[01:04:03] it,

[01:04:04] this is only two years after his father's death.

[01:04:06] So this is like in the beginning of him sort of establishing himself independently.

[01:04:11] And obviously this was a big one for him.

[01:04:14] Ultimately.

[01:04:15] Um,

[01:04:15] it was written by Jerry Jewell,

[01:04:17] who's also mostly known for Muppets stuff.

[01:04:19] And the film's original score was composed by Malz Goodman.

[01:04:22] The songs written by Paul Williams and Scrooge was played as a human by Michael Caine.

[01:04:28] This was actually the first Muppets film to be produced by Walt Disney Pictures.

[01:04:34] Uh,

[01:04:34] later,

[01:04:36] later Disney would acquire,

[01:04:38] you know,

[01:04:38] the rights to the Muppets characters in,

[01:04:40] in 2004.

[01:04:41] 2004.

[01:04:42] So like 12 years after this,

[01:04:44] but this was the first one that they produced.

[01:04:47] And after the script was submitted for approval,

[01:04:50] it was going to be an ABC,

[01:04:51] uh,

[01:04:52] show.

[01:04:52] It was going to be an ABC TV movie,

[01:04:54] but then the executives of Walt Disney were like,

[01:04:57] wait,

[01:04:57] wait,

[01:04:57] wait,

[01:04:57] wait,

[01:04:57] let's make this a theatrical release.

[01:05:00] Yeah.

[01:05:01] And they were absolutely right.

[01:05:03] Yeah.

[01:05:04] Apparently they considered a few people to try to be Ebeneezer Scrooge with Scrooge before they settled on

[01:05:11] Michael Caine.

[01:05:12] So I know they considered an American comedian,

[01:05:15] George Carlin.

[01:05:16] I know him.

[01:05:17] I don't know the English actors,

[01:05:19] David Hemmings,

[01:05:20] Ron Moody and David Warner.

[01:05:21] Do you know those names?

[01:05:22] David Warner was,

[01:05:24] uh,

[01:05:25] Cratchit in the 84 version.

[01:05:28] That's David.

[01:05:29] Oh,

[01:05:29] that's David Warner.

[01:05:30] Um,

[01:05:31] and I know David Hemming and boy,

[01:05:34] boy,

[01:05:35] did they dodge a bullet there?

[01:05:36] Cause David Hemming is not,

[01:05:37] David Hemming is not Ebeneezer Scrooge.

[01:05:40] Hmm.

[01:05:41] Um,

[01:05:42] I'm trying to think what you would know David Hemming from.

[01:05:45] Hmm.

[01:05:46] Do you,

[01:05:47] what have you seen,

[01:05:47] um,

[01:05:48] Gladiator?

[01:05:49] Not the,

[01:05:49] the sequel that just came out,

[01:05:51] but the original,

[01:05:52] sure.

[01:05:52] I rewatched it recently.

[01:05:54] He is.

[01:05:55] David Hemming is the guy,

[01:05:57] is the announcer in the Coliseum.

[01:06:00] Okay.

[01:06:00] The guy wearing the wig.

[01:06:02] Hmm.

[01:06:03] Who isn't that state?

[01:06:04] That's David Hemming.

[01:06:05] Okay.

[01:06:07] Okay.

[01:06:07] Well,

[01:06:07] I mean,

[01:06:08] I'm glad they went with Michael Caine.

[01:06:10] Um,

[01:06:10] that seems,

[01:06:11] he was,

[01:06:12] he's the best part of the film for me for sure.

[01:06:14] Yeah.

[01:06:14] It's an interesting point in Michael Caine's career.

[01:06:17] It was like Michael Caine had had a very shaky,

[01:06:22] um,

[01:06:23] 1980s.

[01:06:24] Cause he'd kind of grown,

[01:06:25] he'd kind of entered that dead zone for actors where they're too old to play like the leading man,

[01:06:33] but they're not old enough to play like the wise elder,

[01:06:37] you know,

[01:06:38] it's the valley of middle age.

[01:06:40] Um,

[01:06:42] and I always feel like this is the moment where Michael Caine's career starts sort of enters.

[01:06:47] It's sort of like a phase.

[01:06:49] And yeah,

[01:06:50] Caine is,

[01:06:51] it's a brilliant performance.

[01:06:52] And what makes it so good is he takes it seriously.

[01:06:56] He plays it dead straight.

[01:06:58] Well,

[01:06:59] he says he was quoted saying,

[01:07:01] I'm going to play this movie.

[01:07:02] Like I'm working with the Royal Shakespeare company.

[01:07:04] I will never wink.

[01:07:05] I will never do anything Muppety.

[01:07:07] I'm going to play Scrooge as if it,

[01:07:10] as if,

[01:07:11] um,

[01:07:11] it is an utterly dramatic role and there are no puppets around me.

[01:07:15] And I personally appreciate that.

[01:07:17] Yeah.

[01:07:17] It's,

[01:07:18] it's,

[01:07:18] it's,

[01:07:19] it's a,

[01:07:19] it's a,

[01:07:20] it's a brilliant acting choice because it allows the Muppets to be as Muppety as you like.

[01:07:26] Without the film losing a sense of realism is too strong a word,

[01:07:31] but gravity.

[01:07:32] Yeah.

[01:07:33] Yeah.

[01:07:33] Yeah.

[01:07:34] He says he took,

[01:07:35] um,

[01:07:35] inspiration from the role from the wall street cheats and embezzlers.

[01:07:39] I thought they represented a very good picture of meanness and greed,

[01:07:41] which is basically Scrooge was a prototype of these wall street cheats and embezzlers.

[01:07:47] So,

[01:07:47] yeah.

[01:07:48] Um,

[01:07:49] it turned out it was not as big,

[01:07:51] big as success as Disney,

[01:07:53] as Disney predicted,

[01:07:54] but obviously it became a,

[01:07:55] uh,

[01:07:56] classic.

[01:07:57] Obviously you love this.

[01:07:59] Uh,

[01:07:59] anything else you want to let out about your love before I get into my feelings?

[01:08:05] So many good lines.

[01:08:07] How would the bookkeepers like to spend the Christmas on the unemployment line?

[01:08:11] He waves!

[01:08:13] Um,

[01:08:14] also,

[01:08:15] also,

[01:08:16] because this is how I was introduced to the story.

[01:08:19] When I first read the novella,

[01:08:21] I was like,

[01:08:22] Oh,

[01:08:23] there's only one Marley.

[01:08:25] That's weird.

[01:08:26] Where'd the,

[01:08:27] where'd the other one?

[01:08:27] Cause obviously they've got Statler and Waldorf as Marley and Marley.

[01:08:31] Oh,

[01:08:32] right.

[01:08:32] So you were expecting,

[01:08:33] I was expecting two of them and every year it makes me smirk that,

[01:08:37] that,

[01:08:38] that there is Jacob and Robert Marley.

[01:08:40] It's just,

[01:08:41] it's just a wonderful,

[01:08:42] it's just a wonderful little in Joe.

[01:08:45] Yeah.

[01:08:46] So you know this about me.

[01:08:48] I have to be upfront with listeners.

[01:08:50] Um,

[01:08:51] if you want to hear me get as excited about Luke's as Luke sounds now talking about the Muppets,

[01:08:55] you've got to ask me about Muppet babies,

[01:08:57] but otherwise the live action Muppets are just not really my thing.

[01:09:02] And I know that I am like the outlier in this.

[01:09:05] I know,

[01:09:06] like,

[01:09:06] I always feel like I'm saying bah humbug when I talk about the Muppets.

[01:09:10] I know it's like my least popular take out there,

[01:09:13] but they just,

[01:09:14] the humor is just not my humor.

[01:09:17] It's very like violent toward each other and just kind of,

[01:09:20] I don't know.

[01:09:21] It just doesn't,

[01:09:22] it's not for me.

[01:09:23] I just slapstick in general.

[01:09:25] It's not for me.

[01:09:26] Um,

[01:09:27] although I do love the Jim Henson labyrinth and dark crystal.

[01:09:31] So take all that.

[01:09:31] It's not,

[01:09:32] it's not a Jim Henson thing that it's specifically the Muppets.

[01:09:36] Yeah.

[01:09:37] Okay.

[01:09:38] Specifically the Muppets.

[01:09:39] Yeah.

[01:09:39] Yeah.

[01:09:40] Um,

[01:09:41] yeah,

[01:09:41] it's just,

[01:09:42] I,

[01:09:42] you know what?

[01:09:42] And it's also like Sesame street doesn't do it for me either.

[01:09:45] I was always like,

[01:09:45] as a kid,

[01:09:46] I was too precocious when they put me in front of Sesame street.

[01:09:49] I'd be like,

[01:09:50] why are you talking down to me?

[01:09:51] Count.

[01:09:51] I can count.

[01:09:56] But anyway,

[01:09:56] so with that out of the way,

[01:09:58] I'm going to focus on the things I do like,

[01:10:00] uh,

[01:10:00] because I know how much people love this.

[01:10:02] So,

[01:10:03] um,

[01:10:04] Michael came makes a great Scrooge.

[01:10:06] He's got a lot of pathos.

[01:10:07] I would love to see him in Duke play that role again.

[01:10:11] I think the songs are decent,

[01:10:13] especially the,

[01:10:14] when love is gone song.

[01:10:15] Um,

[01:10:17] and yeah,

[01:10:17] it's surprisingly faithful adaptation at times.

[01:10:20] And I just absolutely love that.

[01:10:21] They thought of Fossey wig.

[01:10:23] That's,

[01:10:23] that's brilliant.

[01:10:25] Exactly as it should be.

[01:10:26] Makes the universe feel right.

[01:10:28] Um,

[01:10:29] yeah,

[01:10:29] I,

[01:10:30] I,

[01:10:30] I,

[01:10:31] I love is gone.

[01:10:31] It's fine.

[01:10:32] I like the,

[01:10:33] um,

[01:10:33] I like the song at the end.

[01:10:35] Isn't that,

[01:10:36] that's a reprise of when love is gone with a thankful heart.

[01:10:40] I think it is called with a thankful heart or something,

[01:10:43] but where they're,

[01:10:43] where they're sort of parading to Bob Cratchit's house.

[01:10:46] At the end with the turkey.

[01:10:48] Maybe I don't remember.

[01:10:49] I mean,

[01:10:49] I know there was a,

[01:10:50] when love is gone reprise,

[01:10:52] but I thought it was,

[01:10:53] yeah,

[01:10:53] no,

[01:10:53] there's a song just before that,

[01:10:56] which I really like.

[01:10:59] So by the way,

[01:11:00] did you know that they were going to use as the ghost,

[01:11:03] they ended up like kind of inventing new characters for the ghost

[01:11:06] because they wanted to like make,

[01:11:08] you know,

[01:11:08] keep it more faithful and make the ghost creepy,

[01:11:10] but they were considering using the established characters as the ghost

[01:11:14] at first.

[01:11:15] Um,

[01:11:16] so they were going to have like a rubber,

[01:11:20] Robin,

[01:11:21] the frog.

[01:11:21] I,

[01:11:22] who's Robin,

[01:11:22] the frog.

[01:11:23] Don't know.

[01:11:24] Do they mean Kermit?

[01:11:25] I don't know.

[01:11:26] Or Scooter.

[01:11:27] I know who Scooter is.

[01:11:28] Yeah.

[01:11:29] As the ghost of Christmas past.

[01:11:30] Um,

[01:11:31] they were considering Miss Piggy for the ghost of Christmas present,

[01:11:34] which actually I think was a better fit than Mrs.

[01:11:37] Cratchit personality wise.

[01:11:39] Actually,

[01:11:39] see,

[01:11:40] this is one of the reasons I like a Muppets Christmas Carol over other

[01:11:43] Muppets media,

[01:11:45] because it doesn't actually rely that much on Kermit and Miss Piggy.

[01:11:48] I don't really,

[01:11:49] I don't care for Miss Piggy.

[01:11:51] I just think she's miscast as Miss,

[01:11:52] Miss Cratchit and she would have been a better ghost of Christmas present.

[01:11:56] Okay.

[01:11:58] Um,

[01:11:58] Gonzo,

[01:11:59] before they decided to,

[01:12:00] uh,

[01:12:01] make him Dickens,

[01:12:02] he was considered,

[01:12:04] or Animal,

[01:12:05] was considered as a ghost of Christmas yet to come.

[01:12:07] I feel like Animal would have been a good one,

[01:12:09] because he doesn't talk.

[01:12:11] Yeah,

[01:12:11] Animal would have been a good one.

[01:12:13] But,

[01:12:14] yeah,

[01:12:14] they ended up,

[01:12:15] uh,

[01:12:15] choosing new characters.

[01:12:16] Yeah.

[01:12:18] Gonzo is Dickens.

[01:12:20] Gonzo is Dickens.

[01:12:21] Just inspire.

[01:12:23] Yeah,

[01:12:23] apparently,

[01:12:24] they.

[01:12:26] Black Corner.

[01:12:28] Now.

[01:12:30] Apparently,

[01:12:30] they chose Gonzo's Dickens,

[01:12:32] because,

[01:12:32] uh,

[01:12:33] Henson thought it was the least likely character to play Dickens.

[01:12:36] Yeah,

[01:12:37] no,

[01:12:37] it's just,

[01:12:38] it's just a kid.

[01:12:40] Um,

[01:12:41] so,

[01:12:42] I found this interesting,

[01:12:43] because they have humans and puppets together,

[01:12:46] so they would have to have,

[01:12:47] like,

[01:12:48] these open floors,

[01:12:49] and they would have,

[01:12:49] like,

[01:12:49] Michael Caine would just be walking on thin beams on open floors,

[01:12:53] so that people could stick the puppets up between,

[01:12:55] you know,

[01:12:56] the gaps in the floors around him.

[01:12:58] I didn't know that.

[01:13:00] I didn't know that.

[01:13:01] And then they would do other shots where they put the floors back,

[01:13:03] so he could,

[01:13:03] like,

[01:13:04] walk and have it look normal.

[01:13:06] Cool.

[01:13:07] Yeah.

[01:13:09] Um,

[01:13:10] but yeah,

[01:13:11] I don't,

[01:13:11] so this Dickens narration thing,

[01:13:13] this obviously comes back from the original readings and stage plays,

[01:13:17] from even before the first adaptation,

[01:13:18] but I felt like in this case,

[01:13:21] it made the Scrooge feel more distant from the viewer.

[01:13:26] No,

[01:13:27] I'm sorry,

[01:13:27] like,

[01:13:27] go on.

[01:13:28] Yeah,

[01:13:28] Yeah,

[01:13:29] we're not going to agree on this.

[01:13:31] No,

[01:13:31] we're not going to agree on this.

[01:13:34] Um,

[01:13:35] yeah,

[01:13:35] I,

[01:13:36] I'm so glad that you love it.

[01:13:38] Do you want to gush about it one more time before we move on to my favorite?

[01:13:41] No,

[01:13:41] it's just,

[01:13:43] like I say,

[01:13:44] just so,

[01:13:44] just so many good lines.

[01:13:47] Um,

[01:13:48] I had,

[01:13:48] I had,

[01:13:49] I had like 1600 brothers and sisters.

[01:13:51] You're right.

[01:13:52] Rats don't really,

[01:13:53] really don't understand these things.

[01:13:56] And also Sam,

[01:13:57] the American Eagle,

[01:13:58] like,

[01:13:58] it is the American way.

[01:14:01] It is the British way.

[01:14:03] Yeah,

[01:14:04] that was a good one.

[01:14:05] Yeah,

[01:14:05] this is the thing.

[01:14:06] All these lines made me laugh as a kid and they still make me laugh as a 41 year old.

[01:14:11] And that is a very rare thing.

[01:14:14] Possibly unique,

[01:14:15] to be honest.

[01:14:17] Yeah.

[01:14:18] No,

[01:14:18] that's fair.

[01:14:18] That's fair.

[01:14:19] That's fair.

[01:14:19] I feel that way about Mickey's Christmas Carol from 1983.

[01:14:25] And,

[01:14:25] um,

[01:14:26] that one,

[01:14:26] it's,

[01:14:26] it's also a short.

[01:14:27] It's only,

[01:14:28] if you watch it on its own without the other shorts,

[01:14:30] it's sometimes packaged with,

[01:14:31] uh,

[01:14:31] it's 27 minutes.

[01:14:33] Three of those are opening credits,

[01:14:35] by the way,

[01:14:36] it's only,

[01:14:36] it's available on Disney plus,

[01:14:38] but not in the EU for some reason.

[01:14:40] So annoying,

[01:14:41] um,

[01:14:43] is directed by Bernie Mattison and Matt,

[01:14:47] uh,

[01:14:47] Mattinson and Mattinson.

[01:14:50] He worked at Disney from 1953 until he died last year in 2023.

[01:14:56] So more than 70 years.

[01:14:59] He was there until,

[01:15:00] yeah,

[01:15:00] he died at the age of 87.

[01:15:01] He was the longest serving employee in Disney history.

[01:15:04] Good grief.

[01:15:06] Yeah.

[01:15:06] Oh,

[01:15:06] good for him.

[01:15:07] Good for him.

[01:15:08] And he also co-directed the great mouse detective,

[01:15:11] by the way,

[01:15:11] which was a favorite,

[01:15:12] a favorite of mine growing up too.

[01:15:15] I,

[01:15:16] I never,

[01:15:16] I've never seen this.

[01:15:18] This was,

[01:15:19] this was,

[01:15:19] you've never seen this one.

[01:15:20] No,

[01:15:20] this was brand new to me.

[01:15:22] Okay.

[01:15:23] I would say for the writers,

[01:15:24] there's literally seven people credited.

[01:15:26] Scrooge is obviously Scrooge McDuck played by Alan Young.

[01:15:30] This was made for like,

[01:15:31] literally they called him Scrooge McDuck.

[01:15:32] They had to make this film.

[01:15:34] And it was nominated for the Academy Award for best animated short film,

[01:15:38] but this one didn't win.

[01:15:39] So what were your overall thoughts on this one?

[01:15:42] First watch.

[01:15:43] I can't believe it.

[01:15:44] See,

[01:15:45] I was never very big into Disney.

[01:15:47] As a kid,

[01:15:48] I always preferred the Warner brothers,

[01:15:51] Looney tunes,

[01:15:53] um,

[01:15:54] cartoons.

[01:15:54] And I always thought even as a kid that Mickey mouse had an annoying voice.

[01:15:59] Hmm.

[01:16:00] Um,

[01:16:00] but I did,

[01:16:01] I did really,

[01:16:03] but I did quite enjoy this.

[01:16:06] Um,

[01:16:07] I,

[01:16:07] I obviously Scrooge McDuck is literally Scrooge.

[01:16:11] Um,

[01:16:13] and yeah,

[01:16:14] and also like,

[01:16:15] I like,

[01:16:15] I like Jiminy cricket as,

[01:16:17] um,

[01:16:18] um,

[01:16:18] the ghost of Christmas past.

[01:16:20] I thought the,

[01:16:21] um,

[01:16:21] the ghost of,

[01:16:23] the ghost of Christmas present and the ghost of Christmas yet to come kind of get a

[01:16:27] slightly short shrift.

[01:16:30] I mean,

[01:16:31] they always get less,

[01:16:32] but yeah.

[01:16:33] All right.

[01:16:33] Are you ready to hear me gush about it?

[01:16:36] I'm ready to hear you.

[01:16:37] Yeah.

[01:16:38] So,

[01:16:39] I mean,

[01:16:40] I think that it's probable that this is the first version of the story that I was

[01:16:45] exposed to.

[01:16:46] Um,

[01:16:47] uh,

[01:16:48] cause I was definitely a Disney kid growing up.

[01:16:50] And,

[01:16:51] um,

[01:16:51] after now watching a bunch of other versions and reading the book,

[01:16:55] which I probably read in high school,

[01:16:56] but this is like the first time I really remember of it.

[01:16:59] Um,

[01:17:00] I just,

[01:17:00] and now I appreciate it all the much more as an adaptation.

[01:17:04] It's also,

[01:17:05] it stands alone.

[01:17:07] Well,

[01:17:07] as a piece for children,

[01:17:08] probably more than adult,

[01:17:09] but I still appreciate it as an adult.

[01:17:11] Um,

[01:17:12] but also just the way that it keeps to the story.

[01:17:16] Well,

[01:17:16] it does have to condense it intensely because it's only like 25 minutes long.

[01:17:21] So I do find it interesting that there are a lot of people,

[01:17:25] including myself who misremember this as a feature film instead of a short.

[01:17:29] And this could be because it was packaged often in an hour long version with other shorts.

[01:17:34] But I think it also just shows like how well it conveys a full story despite cutting down the scenes.

[01:17:41] Yes.

[01:17:41] I mean,

[01:17:41] rather like the,

[01:17:42] uh,

[01:17:43] rather like the 71 animation,

[01:17:44] he gets across the spirit of the story.

[01:17:48] Well,

[01:17:48] the only,

[01:17:49] the only sort of,

[01:17:50] uh,

[01:17:51] slightly odd choice I thought was had to have goofy as Marley.

[01:17:56] Oh no,

[01:17:56] come on.

[01:17:57] Goofy is Marley.

[01:17:58] That's my Marley man.

[01:18:00] Like think of him next to the 1951 version.

[01:18:04] Like camp.

[01:18:05] Yeah.

[01:18:05] I suppose there is the same kind of high camp.

[01:18:08] Yeah.

[01:18:09] Hmm.

[01:18:10] And I do like the watch the first step.

[01:18:12] Whoa.

[01:18:13] You know,

[01:18:14] that goofy,

[01:18:14] um,

[01:18:15] a little scream thing of his that he does.

[01:18:18] Yeah.

[01:18:18] The steps sequences.

[01:18:19] I kind of,

[01:18:19] yeah.

[01:18:20] But I just think that the,

[01:18:22] this adaptation makes a lot of smart decisions.

[01:18:26] And so you get like that warm hearted Disney animation silliness,

[01:18:31] but it doesn't,

[01:18:32] it never feels rushed.

[01:18:34] So like,

[01:18:35] I think that it was a good idea.

[01:18:37] For instance,

[01:18:38] we'll talk about this more,

[01:18:38] but the fact that they,

[01:18:40] uh,

[01:18:40] combine the different Christmas future views into like one cemetery scene,

[01:18:45] like,

[01:18:46] yeah,

[01:18:46] that's,

[01:18:47] that's a way to keep the pace good,

[01:18:49] but,

[01:18:49] um,

[01:18:51] keep the pace on point,

[01:18:52] but also convey the complexity of the different situations that are,

[01:18:56] you know,

[01:18:57] coming to a conclusion there.

[01:18:59] Yeah.

[01:19:00] So I,

[01:19:00] I also think it's interesting to look at this,

[01:19:02] not only as an adaptation of the book itself,

[01:19:04] um,

[01:19:05] because it almost,

[01:19:06] it takes almost no words directly from the book,

[01:19:08] which makes sense because it's speaking to children.

[01:19:10] So it paraphrases everything.

[01:19:12] Um,

[01:19:13] but it's also,

[01:19:15] it's an adaptation of the previous adaptations,

[01:19:17] which is a concept I brought up,

[01:19:19] but I,

[01:19:20] I noticed,

[01:19:20] for example,

[01:19:21] like the Albert Finney musical that we were just talking about a few minutes ago.

[01:19:25] Um,

[01:19:26] it seems to be really influential on this one.

[01:19:28] I'll point out some of the things as we go through this as well,

[01:19:31] but I think it's one of the less faithful classics just because of its length,

[01:19:38] but it's maybe my favorite.

[01:19:42] Yeah.

[01:19:43] No,

[01:19:43] I'm like,

[01:19:44] this is the thing,

[01:19:45] like all of these adaptations are caught up in your own memories of them and your own sense of nostalgia.

[01:19:52] So it's really not for anybody else to say what,

[01:19:55] yeah,

[01:19:56] it's,

[01:19:57] it's,

[01:19:57] you know,

[01:19:57] it's kind of what,

[01:19:58] what affected you.

[01:19:59] And like,

[01:20:00] technically I think it's good.

[01:20:02] Yeah,

[01:20:02] no,

[01:20:02] it is,

[01:20:03] it is.

[01:20:04] Um,

[01:20:05] and it's,

[01:20:06] it had been like the first,

[01:20:08] cause I watched the,

[01:20:09] the making of featurette.

[01:20:11] Uh huh.

[01:20:12] Um,

[01:20:12] you sent me as well.

[01:20:13] Yeah.

[01:20:14] Um,

[01:20:14] and I hadn't realized it had been that long since there'd been a Mickey Matt.

[01:20:18] They'd been like,

[01:20:19] yeah,

[01:20:19] 30 years since it'd been a Mickey Mouse.

[01:20:23] Cartoon.

[01:20:23] Yeah.

[01:20:24] So this making of featurette is called the making of Mickey's Christmas Carol.

[01:20:28] Yes.

[01:20:28] Very logically named and it's itself.

[01:20:30] It's only 24 minutes and you can find it on YouTube if you want to watch it yourself,

[01:20:34] but it's just,

[01:20:34] it was made one year after the movie.

[01:20:37] So 1984.

[01:20:38] So it's still like this eighties time capsule,

[01:20:40] very charming.

[01:20:41] Like they have Jiminy Cricket.

[01:20:42] There's sort of the go between.

[01:20:44] I've got to say,

[01:20:45] I was expecting.

[01:20:46] Hi,

[01:20:47] I'm Troy McClure.

[01:20:48] You may remember me from such infomercials.

[01:20:51] That's yes.

[01:20:53] Um,

[01:20:53] I thought it was,

[01:20:54] it was just,

[01:20:55] it was a nice time capsule.

[01:20:56] And also it was a surprisingly deep dive into the voice talent.

[01:21:00] It was.

[01:21:01] They got really into the voice talent.

[01:21:03] The voice stuff is really interesting.

[01:21:05] Particularly the guy who was voicing Scrooge McDuck.

[01:21:08] Who had moved from Scotland.

[01:21:10] Right.

[01:21:11] And was trying to get rid of his accent.

[01:21:13] And now he's like,

[01:21:14] get it back.

[01:21:14] Get that.

[01:21:14] Get it back.

[01:21:16] Yeah.

[01:21:18] Um,

[01:21:18] yeah.

[01:21:19] So I learned some fun facts and it's like,

[01:21:21] uh,

[01:21:22] yeah,

[01:21:22] that whole thing about it being Mickey's first movie in 30 years.

[01:21:24] But also I didn't,

[01:21:26] I don't know if I knew that Daisy Duck used to be called Donna Duck at first.

[01:21:30] That was her first name.

[01:21:30] No,

[01:21:30] I didn't.

[01:21:31] No,

[01:21:31] I didn't know that either.

[01:21:33] And I appreciated at the beginning,

[01:21:35] they have Jiminy Cricket and they're like,

[01:21:36] Jiminy get Mickey and his gang.

[01:21:38] Enjoy yourself,

[01:21:39] but watch the budget.

[01:21:42] What?

[01:21:44] Love that.

[01:21:45] They just put that into the making of it.

[01:21:47] Yeah.

[01:21:48] But yeah.

[01:21:49] Um,

[01:21:51] Scrooge McDuck,

[01:21:51] by the way,

[01:21:52] created in 1947.

[01:21:54] So it took nearly 40 years for them to finally give him his namesake role.

[01:21:59] I've got to say,

[01:22:00] I was a big fan of DuckTales.

[01:22:02] Yeah.

[01:22:02] Me too.

[01:22:03] DuckTales.

[01:22:04] Woo.

[01:22:05] Yeah.

[01:22:06] Yeah.

[01:22:07] I always want,

[01:22:08] I always wanted to dive into the big vault of money.

[01:22:11] That looked,

[01:22:12] that looked,

[01:22:12] that looked like fun.

[01:22:14] Yeah.

[01:22:15] Yeah.

[01:22:15] And I just,

[01:22:16] I mean,

[01:22:17] I thought all of them were well cast.

[01:22:18] We'll talk about a bit more as we go through,

[01:22:20] but this,

[01:22:21] I just love this one.

[01:22:23] It's just a really nice,

[01:22:24] like,

[01:22:25] you know,

[01:22:26] I feel like every year I should watch this one in the 51 one.

[01:22:30] Yeah.

[01:22:30] Yeah.

[01:22:30] There's just something about that,

[01:22:32] those adaptations that just make you feel like everything is right with the world.

[01:22:36] Well,

[01:22:36] there's hope at least.

[01:22:37] Yeah.

[01:22:38] Yeah.

[01:22:39] All right.

[01:22:40] Any final thoughts on the initial impressions of the movies overall?

[01:22:45] No,

[01:22:46] except to say there are so many we could have picked.

[01:22:49] Yeah.

[01:22:49] And didn't like,

[01:22:50] we,

[01:22:50] we could have,

[01:22:51] we could have been at this for like five hours if we'd wanted to be.

[01:22:55] Well,

[01:22:55] I mean,

[01:22:56] we are definitely going to do it every prize next year.

[01:23:00] No question.

[01:23:00] I may have already made a preliminary list that I'll show.

[01:23:03] crikey.

[01:23:06] I mean,

[01:23:07] it was just part of making this list,

[01:23:08] you know?

[01:23:09] Yeah.

[01:23:10] But like,

[01:23:11] yeah,

[01:23:11] there are just so many adaptations.

[01:23:13] Yeah.

[01:23:14] Of this.

[01:23:14] And yeah,

[01:23:15] that's partly to do with it being out of copyright,

[01:23:17] but also it's just,

[01:23:19] it's such a solid structure to adapt.

[01:23:23] Right.

[01:23:23] Like you've got,

[01:23:25] you've got a sort of classic three act structure and then sort of a rough,

[01:23:32] you know,

[01:23:32] prologue epilogue.

[01:23:34] And yeah,

[01:23:35] it's just like,

[01:23:36] it's a four chords of pop thing.

[01:23:40] You've got this basic structure that you can then play around with and add

[01:23:43] stuff on and take stuff off.

[01:23:45] And it's just,

[01:23:45] it's incredibly adaptable.

[01:23:47] And also reminds me,

[01:23:48] for some reason it was reminding me of like the like four flavors people want.

[01:23:52] What is it?

[01:23:53] Like fat,

[01:23:55] heat,

[01:23:56] salt,

[01:23:57] sweet or something like that.

[01:23:58] Yeah.

[01:23:58] And it reminds me,

[01:23:59] which doesn't actually exist.

[01:24:00] Yeah.

[01:24:01] Well,

[01:24:01] that's fat.

[01:24:02] That's fat.

[01:24:03] Okay.

[01:24:04] But yeah,

[01:24:05] it's,

[01:24:06] it's like that in,

[01:24:06] in films,

[01:24:07] you know,

[01:24:07] this has,

[01:24:08] it has the ghost story.

[01:24:09] It has the redemption arc.

[01:24:11] It has,

[01:24:12] you know,

[01:24:12] it's got something for everyone.

[01:24:14] It's got,

[01:24:15] it touches,

[01:24:16] it brings together all the different things.

[01:24:17] And obviously from its inception,

[01:24:20] musical elements are built into.

[01:24:22] So.

[01:24:22] But we're not done talking about these nine classic versions.

[01:24:26] So we've chosen for this year,

[01:24:27] we're going to put them head to head,

[01:24:29] talking through stave by stave.

[01:24:31] Some of the most iconic moments right after a quick break.

[01:24:39] Okay.

[01:24:41] First we're back.

[01:24:42] We're,

[01:24:43] we're doing our Christmas pit,

[01:24:46] a Christmas Carol adaptations go head to head.

[01:24:50] We obviously,

[01:24:51] we have to start with the big question.

[01:24:54] Out of the nine that we talked about today.

[01:24:57] What are the best Scrooge is?

[01:25:00] Or I think we have to agree.

[01:25:03] On one or two of the best Scrooge is.

[01:25:06] And,

[01:25:06] and I'll say I've already narrowed it down to a few that I think are the top

[01:25:10] contenders.

[01:25:11] Um,

[01:25:11] I feel like you've already eliminated one in our discussion,

[01:25:14] but I'll talk through what I laid out.

[01:25:15] So Alistair Sim,

[01:25:17] who was both 1951 and 1971.

[01:25:21] Patrick Stewart,

[01:25:22] 1999,

[01:25:23] Albert Finney,

[01:25:24] 1970.

[01:25:24] I feel like you're going to tell me to cross that one out and that's fine.

[01:25:28] Um,

[01:25:28] Scrooge McDuck,

[01:25:29] 1983 and Michael Caine,

[01:25:31] 1992.

[01:25:32] So you go ahead,

[01:25:33] eliminate one.

[01:25:34] Well,

[01:25:35] I think the easiest one to eliminate,

[01:25:36] and this is no surprise based on what we said earlier is George C.

[01:25:40] Scott.

[01:25:41] Well,

[01:25:41] okay.

[01:25:41] But I mean,

[01:25:42] of this,

[01:25:43] I already eliminated,

[01:25:44] pre eliminated him on this list of this,

[01:25:46] probably Albert Finney.

[01:25:48] Yeah.

[01:25:48] Um,

[01:25:49] it's a,

[01:25:50] yeah,

[01:25:50] it's,

[01:25:50] it's an odd portrayal of Scrooge.

[01:25:53] He almost plays him as kind of,

[01:25:54] but I like,

[01:25:56] he always plays him as kind of like a hobgoblin.

[01:25:58] It's kind of,

[01:25:59] he was 35.

[01:26:01] So yeah,

[01:26:01] the young version and the older version.

[01:26:03] And I like that.

[01:26:04] I thought he was versatile,

[01:26:06] but it is,

[01:26:07] but it's just,

[01:26:08] it's,

[01:26:09] it's,

[01:26:09] it's too much.

[01:26:10] The evil Scrooge is too evil.

[01:26:13] Mm hmm.

[01:26:15] Yeah.

[01:26:16] Oh man.

[01:26:17] Okay.

[01:26:17] So now I have to eliminate one and I can't.

[01:26:21] You gotta,

[01:26:22] you gotta pick somebody.

[01:26:23] I gotta pick somebody.

[01:26:25] Damn.

[01:26:25] Okay.

[01:26:26] Oh,

[01:26:27] this is ripping my heart out.

[01:26:29] Um,

[01:26:30] I'm going to go with Scrooge McDuck.

[01:26:37] He's literally called Scrooge.

[01:26:39] Okay.

[01:26:39] I'm undoing it.

[01:26:40] I'm going with Patrick Stewart then.

[01:26:44] That's harsh.

[01:26:46] Okay.

[01:26:46] I'm undoing it.

[01:26:47] I'm going in with Michael Caine then.

[01:26:49] See,

[01:26:49] there are no winners.

[01:26:50] Okay.

[01:26:50] There are no.

[01:26:51] Okay.

[01:26:52] I'm sticking with Michael Caine though.

[01:26:54] Okay.

[01:26:54] Okay.

[01:26:56] Okay.

[01:26:56] Now you have to pick one.

[01:26:58] Okay.

[01:26:58] I'm going to eliminate another one.

[01:27:00] Um,

[01:27:01] in that case,

[01:27:04] in that case,

[01:27:05] I am going to go with,

[01:27:07] I think I'm going to go with Alice the Simp.

[01:27:16] Um,

[01:27:17] just because there is a lot to like in that film,

[01:27:22] but Scrooge is not actually the most,

[01:27:27] like,

[01:27:27] is not the best role in that film.

[01:27:30] It's Marley.

[01:27:31] Okay.

[01:27:32] I really,

[01:27:32] I really like the guy,

[01:27:33] the guy that plays Cratchit.

[01:27:36] Uh,

[01:27:37] in that film as well.

[01:27:38] All right.

[01:27:40] Okay.

[01:27:41] Then,

[01:27:41] uh,

[01:27:42] yeah,

[01:27:42] that's down to Patrick Stewart and Scrooge McDuck.

[01:27:44] And I'm gonna,

[01:27:46] I'm going to take out Patrick Stewart and give it to the namesake then.

[01:27:49] Okay.

[01:27:50] Almost out in the first round.

[01:27:52] Almost.

[01:27:53] And now he's our official.

[01:27:55] All right.

[01:27:57] So let's talk about stave one,

[01:28:00] chapter one.

[01:28:01] It's called Marley's ghost in the book.

[01:28:03] And this is basically the whole,

[01:28:04] it's the first meeting with Marley,

[01:28:06] but also everything that happens in and around the counting house.

[01:28:09] Um,

[01:28:10] and I always track,

[01:28:11] I always note that in the book,

[01:28:14] the song that the carolers sing that he gets mad about,

[01:28:19] um,

[01:28:19] which is usually the song that opens the movies.

[01:28:21] It was God rest you,

[01:28:23] merry gentlemen.

[01:28:24] But for some reason,

[01:28:25] they seem to almost always change it.

[01:28:28] And I don't understand because it's in the public domain.

[01:28:30] Like,

[01:28:31] is it too religious or so?

[01:28:34] It's often.

[01:28:34] No,

[01:28:35] cause like they often change it to once in Royal David city,

[01:28:37] which is,

[01:28:38] um,

[01:28:39] just as religious.

[01:28:41] Um,

[01:28:41] well,

[01:28:42] they often,

[01:28:42] it's often Hark the Herald.

[01:28:44] So 1951 and 1970,

[01:28:46] it's Hark the Herald.

[01:28:47] It,

[01:28:48] in 1971 in the animated short,

[01:28:50] it was God rest you,

[01:28:52] many gentlemen.

[01:28:53] Um,

[01:28:54] Muppets opens with a medley of characters,

[01:28:56] Carol's and,

[01:28:58] uh,

[01:28:59] the Patrick Stewart one.

[01:29:00] It's good.

[01:29:01] King Wenceslas.

[01:29:02] That's a,

[01:29:03] that's the more secular one.

[01:29:06] But he still chases the kids away with a ruler and that,

[01:29:08] like in the book.

[01:29:09] Yeah.

[01:29:11] I know.

[01:29:11] I'm always tracking that now.

[01:29:12] That's when the things always have my eye on.

[01:29:15] Do you notice no adaptation has in the novella,

[01:29:19] uh,

[01:29:19] Bob Cratchit,

[01:29:20] he can't even really afford a good winter coat.

[01:29:23] So he.

[01:29:23] Yeah.

[01:29:24] He's wearing like a comforter.

[01:29:25] He's wearing a blanket.

[01:29:26] Yeah.

[01:29:26] He's like strapped a blanket to himself basically.

[01:29:30] And we,

[01:29:30] I don't think I can think of a single,

[01:29:32] adaptation that's done that.

[01:29:34] So if anyone else.

[01:29:35] No,

[01:29:35] it would,

[01:29:36] it would look kind of,

[01:29:37] it would look kind of silly on screen.

[01:29:38] It would,

[01:29:39] it would look like it was too much.

[01:29:41] Yeah.

[01:29:42] Hmm.

[01:29:43] Hmm.

[01:29:44] Yeah.

[01:29:45] And,

[01:29:45] um,

[01:29:46] a,

[01:29:47] there's some different openings,

[01:29:48] uh,

[01:29:49] that's like,

[01:29:50] for instance,

[01:29:50] in 1951,

[01:29:52] um,

[01:29:53] it,

[01:29:53] they start elsewhere.

[01:29:55] Yeah.

[01:29:55] It's fine.

[01:29:56] It makes sense.

[01:29:56] Um,

[01:29:57] I also brought up previously that the,

[01:29:59] they often say that the nephew married again,

[01:30:03] uh,

[01:30:03] Scrooge's wishes,

[01:30:04] which makes no sense in 1951 commits that sin.

[01:30:07] That's my cinema sin.

[01:30:09] Yeah.

[01:30:10] Um,

[01:30:10] it's not that he marries against Scrooge's wishes.

[01:30:12] He just marries because he marries like Scrooge is not involved.

[01:30:16] Right.

[01:30:17] And Scrooge is just like,

[01:30:18] why would you get married?

[01:30:19] Yeah.

[01:30:19] Not like,

[01:30:20] why would you marry her?

[01:30:21] There's nothing about her.

[01:30:23] doesn't like the whole institution of marriage.

[01:30:25] Right.

[01:30:25] Yeah.

[01:30:26] Yeah.

[01:30:27] He's bitter because it didn't work out for him.

[01:30:29] Spoiler alert that you should know.

[01:30:31] Um,

[01:30:32] and you already brought up the 1984 Scrooge running into Timmy in that opening sequence outside the shop.

[01:30:39] Like that didn't work for me either.

[01:30:40] It just made him look more mean and weird.

[01:30:43] Yeah.

[01:30:44] Yeah.

[01:30:45] Um,

[01:30:46] I do think that the 1991 was particularly good in this opening.

[01:30:50] We got that full on dead as a doornail riff at Marley's funeral,

[01:30:53] as you said.

[01:30:54] Yes.

[01:30:55] Uh,

[01:30:55] we also get,

[01:30:56] they,

[01:30:57] they talk about Dutch tiles,

[01:30:58] which obviously catch my eye because it's like,

[01:31:00] um,

[01:31:01] for anyone who doesn't know,

[01:31:02] they're,

[01:31:03] they're like Delft blau,

[01:31:04] Delft blue.

[01:31:05] They are in basically their imitation of Chinese tiles,

[01:31:08] but for hundreds of years,

[01:31:09] the Dutch have been doing Dutch landscapes in this blue paint.

[01:31:13] On white tiles.

[01:31:15] Um,

[01:31:15] very characteristic.

[01:31:16] I happen to just really love the look and they actually showed that like where he's hallucinating and seeing animations in those.

[01:31:23] Like it's such a specific detail to include.

[01:31:25] It is.

[01:31:27] That never gets included.

[01:31:28] And also the scenes of the bound spirits trying to do good,

[01:31:32] but unable,

[01:31:33] like 1951 was good about that too,

[01:31:35] about the people flying around and,

[01:31:37] you know,

[01:31:38] I like that scene.

[01:31:41] Um,

[01:31:41] and I thought the,

[01:31:42] the 1970 was good here too.

[01:31:44] Like,

[01:31:45] um,

[01:31:45] that also that they,

[01:31:47] the,

[01:31:47] the twists on it that they did,

[01:31:49] because like,

[01:31:49] there's no such thing as rich enough,

[01:31:51] only poor enough.

[01:31:52] Like they're taking it.

[01:31:53] I don't know,

[01:31:54] to,

[01:31:54] um,

[01:31:55] they're modernizing it,

[01:31:56] um,

[01:31:57] in a way that fits with the book.

[01:32:00] And they show him collecting debts in the 1970 version at this point,

[01:32:04] which plays a role,

[01:32:05] you know,

[01:32:06] in the fact in the,

[01:32:07] they never really show how there's,

[01:32:10] there's a whole thank you very much singing thing in,

[01:32:13] in the,

[01:32:13] um,

[01:32:14] in this musical movie.

[01:32:15] And that comes from this fact that he,

[01:32:18] in Christmas,

[01:32:19] uh,

[01:32:20] future,

[01:32:21] he's like,

[01:32:21] show me one person who's feeling good.

[01:32:24] And they're celebrating him being dead because he's a dick about debts.

[01:32:29] Yeah.

[01:32:29] And he doesn't.

[01:32:30] And the,

[01:32:31] the thing that makes it odd is he doesn't realize it.

[01:32:34] He thinks they're celebrating him for being a good guy.

[01:32:37] Right.

[01:32:37] Oh yeah.

[01:32:37] In the musical.

[01:32:38] Yeah.

[01:32:39] Yeah.

[01:32:40] Um,

[01:32:41] but also like,

[01:32:42] they,

[01:32:42] they certainly also like Scrooge's profession in,

[01:32:47] um,

[01:32:48] some of the adaptations.

[01:32:49] So the 1951 one,

[01:32:51] he's more explicitly like a bank.

[01:32:54] He's a banker and a merchant banker.

[01:32:56] There's the whole,

[01:32:57] um,

[01:32:58] bit of him and Marley committing fraud.

[01:33:00] The 1984 one,

[01:33:02] he's sort of a,

[01:33:03] a great age.

[01:33:05] He's yes.

[01:33:05] He,

[01:33:06] um,

[01:33:06] he lends money,

[01:33:07] but he's also kind of a great merchant.

[01:33:09] Um,

[01:33:10] this is the whole thing where he goes down to the,

[01:33:12] the exchange and he's basically blackmailing,

[01:33:15] um,

[01:33:17] the blackmailing is some of his business associates in buying expensive corn.

[01:33:22] Um,

[01:33:23] there are like,

[01:33:24] like in the Muppets and the 1999 one,

[01:33:28] it isn't really explicit.

[01:33:30] What line of business Scrooge is in,

[01:33:34] except that he needs a clerk.

[01:33:36] Um,

[01:33:37] so yeah,

[01:33:38] they do kind of subtly alter what exact line of business.

[01:33:42] Right.

[01:33:42] Scrooge is in.

[01:33:44] Right.

[01:33:44] Which I think makes sense.

[01:33:45] Well,

[01:33:46] we'll talk more about the twist later,

[01:33:47] but it makes sense if he's like a financial guy or yeah,

[01:33:52] he'd be a tech bro today.

[01:33:54] Yeah,

[01:33:54] he would like,

[01:33:55] yeah,

[01:33:56] he would.

[01:33:57] Um,

[01:33:58] so we,

[01:33:59] we already lavished praise on the 1951,

[01:34:02] uh,

[01:34:03] Marley,

[01:34:03] but I also like the 1971 Marley,

[01:34:05] the way he moves weird.

[01:34:07] It's like,

[01:34:08] and then he pulls over a chair and then instead of sitting in it,

[01:34:11] he sits next to it.

[01:34:12] I like that sort of unsettling quality.

[01:34:14] Yeah.

[01:34:15] I like the 1999 Marley because they do do the fling of his chin being held,

[01:34:22] right.

[01:34:23] Being held up by the rapper and doing the whole unwinding it thing.

[01:34:28] Yeah.

[01:34:28] Oh yeah.

[01:34:29] They,

[01:34:29] they always,

[01:34:30] they tend to show him with his chin tied up with like some cloth,

[01:34:34] but it's rare that they actually untie it to show the chin flopping against his chest.

[01:34:40] If he doesn't.

[01:34:40] Yeah.

[01:34:41] Yeah.

[01:34:41] Like that's a book thing for anyone who doesn't know.

[01:34:44] Yeah.

[01:34:45] And one trope that comes back again and again,

[01:34:48] that happens in the 71 is that,

[01:34:50] uh,

[01:34:50] in the musical is that Marley says the ghosts come in one night.

[01:34:54] And I like in the book,

[01:34:56] the fact that he,

[01:34:59] you know,

[01:34:59] people might not understand why he's like the ghost did it all in one night.

[01:35:03] It's because from his experience,

[01:35:04] he's experienced like a fortnight basically.

[01:35:08] Yeah.

[01:35:09] Basically.

[01:35:11] He's been through the 12 days of Christmas and at least two months.

[01:35:14] Yeah.

[01:35:17] Yeah.

[01:35:19] So,

[01:35:20] uh,

[01:35:20] the Muppets one,

[01:35:20] as we said,

[01:35:21] the narrators Dickens,

[01:35:22] um,

[01:35:23] and so we had Gonzo because he was the least likely,

[01:35:26] but Rizzo,

[01:35:27] the rat was playing the Greek course version,

[01:35:30] which I thought was a nice touch.

[01:35:32] Yeah.

[01:35:33] Uh,

[01:35:34] we had Cratchit,

[01:35:35] the frog.

[01:35:36] Um,

[01:35:37] I was bothered by the extra rats in the counting house to help.

[01:35:40] Um,

[01:35:41] all of our assets are frozen.

[01:35:42] Ha ha.

[01:35:43] But,

[01:35:44] and I thought Cain was a little too mean spirited to start,

[01:35:47] but I know you're going to disagree with me.

[01:35:49] So that's fine.

[01:35:49] I can't be a little bit too mean spirited to start,

[01:35:52] but I just love that.

[01:35:53] How would the bookkeepers like to spend Christmas on the unemployment line?

[01:35:57] He waves.

[01:36:00] This is my,

[01:36:00] yeah,

[01:36:01] it's just,

[01:36:02] oh,

[01:36:03] forget it.

[01:36:03] I'll be here all night if we start.

[01:36:05] I'm so,

[01:36:06] I'm so glad to see you bring so much joy for this one.

[01:36:10] Um,

[01:36:10] we also get,

[01:36:11] so Fred in this version is also human,

[01:36:13] which I guess makes sense if it's his nephew.

[01:36:15] He says lines directly from the book.

[01:36:18] And interestingly,

[01:36:19] Kermit argues against opening on Christmas because no one is open to do business

[01:36:23] with it.

[01:36:24] And it's a waste of coal,

[01:36:25] which is a really smart argument.

[01:36:27] You don't see anywhere else.

[01:36:28] Yeah.

[01:36:29] It doesn't work,

[01:36:30] but it was a good try.

[01:36:32] And yeah,

[01:36:32] we'll pick this up when we do the twists,

[01:36:35] but there's a,

[01:36:36] there's a bit in it's Christmas Carol where she makes the,

[01:36:40] all the employees come in and it's like,

[01:36:42] no,

[01:36:43] you wouldn't,

[01:36:44] even if you,

[01:36:45] no one's nowhere's open on Christmas.

[01:36:48] Like it's a waste of time and effort.

[01:36:53] I do like that ice skating interlude.

[01:36:57] In the first part of the Muppets movie.

[01:37:00] I've got to say it's not,

[01:37:02] it doesn't work for me.

[01:37:03] No,

[01:37:03] it is one of the weak points.

[01:37:05] Okay.

[01:37:05] Okay.

[01:37:06] It's not just me.

[01:37:06] Yeah.

[01:37:07] But I do like that.

[01:37:08] They show he,

[01:37:09] he doesn't have a dinner in the pub.

[01:37:10] Like we talked about,

[01:37:11] but it's definitely a lonely dinner.

[01:37:13] And as you pointed out,

[01:37:14] it's a double Marley.

[01:37:15] Um,

[01:37:16] I think that it's the best door knocker scene,

[01:37:19] the Muppets.

[01:37:19] Yes.

[01:37:20] And,

[01:37:20] and there's a,

[01:37:21] Oh,

[01:37:21] I'll put,

[01:37:22] I'll put in the notes,

[01:37:24] a link to a video that compares all the door knocker scenes across a whole bunch of like these adaptations and others.

[01:37:31] Um,

[01:37:32] and I think the chains,

[01:37:34] yeah,

[01:37:34] are fairly accurate.

[01:37:35] I think they're too mean.

[01:37:36] That's my problem with most of this is everyone's a little too mean.

[01:37:40] That's why the Muppets,

[01:37:41] why are the Muppets so mean?

[01:37:42] Why do people,

[01:37:43] anyway,

[01:37:44] sorry.

[01:37:44] Um,

[01:37:45] I know how much people love them.

[01:37:47] My question though about double Marley is did they die at the same time?

[01:37:51] And that,

[01:37:52] that is an interest.

[01:37:53] That is an interesting question.

[01:37:55] That is an interesting question,

[01:37:56] but yeah,

[01:37:57] I just,

[01:37:57] I love the fact that one of them is called Robert.

[01:38:00] That's such a,

[01:38:01] that's such a,

[01:38:02] why?

[01:38:03] Well,

[01:38:04] because Robert Marley,

[01:38:05] Bob Marley.

[01:38:07] Oh gosh.

[01:38:09] Thank you.

[01:38:10] Click.

[01:38:11] The coin just dropped.

[01:38:13] Yeah.

[01:38:14] Okay.

[01:38:15] Okay.

[01:38:17] Um,

[01:38:18] well,

[01:38:18] okay.

[01:38:19] So I love goofy Marley.

[01:38:21] You seem to be,

[01:38:22] have mixed feelings about it.

[01:38:25] Mickey was a little,

[01:38:26] I'm sorry,

[01:38:26] not Mickey.

[01:38:26] Scrooge is a little mean here.

[01:38:28] Marley left money for his tombstone and Scrooge had him buried at sea,

[01:38:35] but I thought it was a good bit with the coal and like thawing out the ink.

[01:38:39] And,

[01:38:40] um,

[01:38:40] he only gets half a day off by the way,

[01:38:42] which is insane.

[01:38:43] Yeah.

[01:38:44] But then he lets Cratchit go two minutes early.

[01:38:46] Mickey Cratchit.

[01:38:48] I don't,

[01:38:48] so I love the fact that Mickey,

[01:38:50] that,

[01:38:50] um,

[01:38:51] Mickey,

[01:38:52] uh,

[01:38:52] Cratchit is doing Scrooge's laundry.

[01:38:55] Yeah.

[01:38:55] Yeah.

[01:38:56] This is extra detail because that comes back to play later.

[01:38:58] It's like,

[01:38:59] Oh,

[01:38:59] you're cooking a turkey.

[01:39:00] Like,

[01:39:00] no,

[01:39:00] we're cooking your laundry.

[01:39:02] Yeah.

[01:39:04] Uh,

[01:39:05] and Donald plays Fred,

[01:39:07] which,

[01:39:07] yeah,

[01:39:07] that makes sense.

[01:39:08] that would be the nephew of Scrooge McDuck.

[01:39:11] Um,

[01:39:12] and we have the detectives as charity men.

[01:39:15] So that was,

[01:39:15] this was really tied to that.

[01:39:17] Um,

[01:39:18] the detectives movie that,

[01:39:20] yeah,

[01:39:20] the mouse detectives,

[01:39:22] um,

[01:39:24] the tickling Marley shadow in the stair scene,

[01:39:26] I think is iconic.

[01:39:27] You mentioned him falling,

[01:39:28] but I think the whole scene,

[01:39:30] I just have,

[01:39:31] maybe it's just iconic to me personally.

[01:39:33] Listeners tell me if you feel the same way,

[01:39:36] but I have it like imprinted in my brain.

[01:39:41] Well,

[01:39:42] it does bother me that goofy Marley holds up two fingers when he says three.

[01:39:48] And I get that he has one finger less,

[01:39:51] but still counting works the same.

[01:39:53] He should hold up all three of his fingers.

[01:39:57] That's my nitpick for the entire film.

[01:40:01] Uh,

[01:40:03] do you have any other thoughts on the first stave as represented across the films?

[01:40:08] Um,

[01:40:09] I really liked the,

[01:40:10] um,

[01:40:11] I really liked Dominic West's performance as Fred in the 1999 one.

[01:40:16] One.

[01:40:17] And I like this.

[01:40:18] There's a little,

[01:40:18] um,

[01:40:19] there's a little,

[01:40:20] um,

[01:40:20] scene with where Fred is walking out of the counting house and the two charity

[01:40:26] well-wishers are walking towards it and they're asking directions.

[01:40:31] And it's just like,

[01:40:32] you're not from around here.

[01:40:34] Right.

[01:40:35] You just,

[01:40:35] Fred's just something like you're not from around here.

[01:40:38] Are you like,

[01:40:39] there's a look of what?

[01:40:40] Yeah.

[01:40:41] You know,

[01:40:43] one day you're asking directions.

[01:40:44] You know,

[01:40:45] anybody who knows,

[01:40:46] Scrooge knows better than to ask him for money.

[01:40:49] And it's just,

[01:40:49] it's,

[01:40:49] it's a really short scene,

[01:40:52] but Dominic West like plays it with real devilment,

[01:40:56] like real mischief.

[01:40:58] Yeah.

[01:40:59] Um,

[01:41:00] I guess only people who listened to the novella episode heard this,

[01:41:04] but Fred is kind of low key.

[01:41:05] My favorite character.

[01:41:07] Yeah.

[01:41:08] Just,

[01:41:09] you know,

[01:41:10] stubbornly optimistic.

[01:41:12] We could all learn from Fred.

[01:41:14] Although I want to know what Fred does for a living because like,

[01:41:18] clearly he's not badly,

[01:41:20] he's not badly off.

[01:41:22] He's talking like he's poor,

[01:41:24] but he has servants.

[01:41:25] Yes.

[01:41:26] Yeah.

[01:41:26] He's like solidly upper middle class at least.

[01:41:29] Yeah.

[01:41:30] Yeah.

[01:41:32] All right.

[01:41:32] Any other first Dave thoughts,

[01:41:34] Marley or and co?

[01:41:36] No,

[01:41:37] but it's just like,

[01:41:38] you have to get the Scrooge right in this.

[01:41:41] Yeah.

[01:41:41] Like I said before,

[01:41:42] Scrooge is not,

[01:41:43] it's,

[01:41:45] it's a point that can't be overstressed.

[01:41:47] Scrooge is not evil.

[01:41:49] He is indifferent.

[01:41:51] And that makes the story so much more powerful because genuine out and out

[01:41:57] evil in the world is a relatively rare thing.

[01:42:00] Right.

[01:42:01] But all of us are indifferent to one extent or another.

[01:42:04] All of us want to just be left alone by the world at times.

[01:42:09] Right.

[01:42:09] And not be bothered by it.

[01:42:11] And I think that's the point that,

[01:42:13] that Dickens,

[01:42:14] Dickens is making that everything that happens in the world ultimately

[01:42:18] affects everybody in it.

[01:42:20] Right.

[01:42:21] That it is your responsibility to do something about it.

[01:42:25] Mm-hmm.

[01:42:26] And so I think getting that,

[01:42:28] that tone right at the beginning really,

[01:42:32] really kind of like make or break the adaptation.

[01:42:35] Right.

[01:42:35] For me.

[01:42:36] Right.

[01:42:37] Exactly.

[01:42:37] No,

[01:42:38] I think that's very well put.

[01:42:39] Very well put.

[01:42:41] All right.

[01:42:42] Well,

[01:42:42] let's get into stave two,

[01:42:43] the first of the three spirits,

[01:42:45] AKA the ghost of Christmas past.

[01:42:47] And I have to say,

[01:42:49] since I read or reread the novella recently for this project,

[01:42:54] um,

[01:42:55] I've gotten a little bit obsessed with Dickens description of the ghost of

[01:42:59] Christmas past.

[01:43:00] Cause it's so,

[01:43:01] it's not,

[01:43:02] it's,

[01:43:03] you can understand why it's so difficult to represent on screen.

[01:43:07] So I'm just going to start by reading his description from the novella of

[01:43:12] the ghost of Christmas past.

[01:43:13] So it was a strange figure,

[01:43:16] like a child,

[01:43:17] yet not so like a child is like an old man viewed through some supernatural

[01:43:22] medium,

[01:43:22] which gave him the appearance of having receded from the view and being

[01:43:27] diminished to a child's proportions.

[01:43:29] It's hair,

[01:43:30] which hung about its neck and down its back was white as if with age.

[01:43:34] And yet the face had not a wrinkle in it.

[01:43:37] And the tenderest bloom was on the skin.

[01:43:39] The arms were very long and muscular,

[01:43:42] the hands,

[01:43:42] the same as if it's hold were of uncommon strength.

[01:43:46] It's legs and feet most delicately formed were like those upper members.

[01:43:50] It wore a tunic of the purest white and rounded waist was bound a lustrous belt.

[01:43:57] The sheen of which was beautiful.

[01:43:58] It held a branch of fresh green holly in its hand.

[01:44:02] And in singular contradiction of that wintry emblem had its dress trimmed with summer flowers.

[01:44:09] But the strangest thing about it was that from the crown of its head,

[01:44:12] there sprung a bright,

[01:44:14] clear jet of light by which all this was visible and which was doubtless.

[01:44:19] It's the occasion of its using in its duller moments,

[01:44:22] a great extinguisher for a cap,

[01:44:24] which it now held under its arm.

[01:44:27] Even this though,

[01:44:28] when Scrooge looked at it with increasing steadiness was not its strangest quality for,

[01:44:33] as its belt sparkled and glittered now in one part and now in another,

[01:44:38] and what was light one instant at another time was dark.

[01:44:41] So the figure itself fluctuated in its distinctness.

[01:44:45] Now being a thing with one arm,

[01:44:47] now one leg,

[01:44:48] now with twenty legs,

[01:44:49] now a pair of legs without a head,

[01:44:51] now a head without a body,

[01:44:53] of which dissolving parts no outline would be visible

[01:44:55] in a dense gloom wherein they melted away.

[01:44:58] And in the very wonder of this,

[01:45:00] it would be itself again,

[01:45:02] distinct and clear as ever.

[01:45:04] Are you the spirit, sir,

[01:45:07] whose coming was foretold to me?

[01:45:09] asked Scrooge.

[01:45:10] I am.

[01:45:10] The voice was soft and gentle,

[01:45:13] singularly low,

[01:45:14] as if instead of being so close beside him,

[01:45:16] it were at a distance.

[01:45:18] Who and what are you?

[01:45:19] Scrooge demanded.

[01:45:20] I am the ghost of Christmas past.

[01:45:24] Yeah,

[01:45:24] that would be very hard to represent on screen.

[01:45:27] And it would cost an arm,

[01:45:30] and a leg,

[01:45:32] not to be...

[01:45:32] Or twenty.

[01:45:34] Or twenty,

[01:45:35] yeah,

[01:45:35] it would be very difficult to do.

[01:45:37] But this explains why the ghost of Christmas past in,

[01:45:41] for instance,

[01:45:42] the 1971 animated short,

[01:45:44] the Oscar winner,

[01:45:45] that one has like all these kind of blurred arms and legs,

[01:45:49] you know?

[01:45:49] Yeah.

[01:45:50] And we see just a lot of androgyny in general?

[01:45:55] Yes.

[01:45:57] Even in the Muppets one,

[01:45:59] the Christmas past is like this sort of immortal child puppet?

[01:46:03] Yes.

[01:46:04] Is it even a puppet?

[01:46:05] It's kind of a...

[01:46:07] It's a...

[01:46:08] I'm not sure what it is.

[01:46:10] I always thought it was like early CG,

[01:46:13] like early,

[01:46:14] possibly early CG or...

[01:46:17] Interesting.

[01:46:18] I think the 1951 movie with Alistair Sim,

[01:46:24] the Christmas past was one of the most disappointing parts.

[01:46:26] It's just mundane,

[01:46:28] whatever.

[01:46:28] Fine.

[01:46:29] I guess they just try to make it sort of ambiguous in age or whatever.

[01:46:34] 1984,

[01:46:35] Christmas past,

[01:46:36] I keep calling Cyndi Lauper.

[01:46:38] Yes.

[01:46:38] Yeah.

[01:46:39] It's not Cyndi Lauper,

[01:46:41] but yeah,

[01:46:41] it's very...

[01:46:42] It's very 80s.

[01:46:43] It's very much inspired,

[01:46:44] but yeah.

[01:46:46] But they did at least,

[01:46:47] do the thing where shoving the Christmas past into the hats.

[01:46:51] This is what happens at the end,

[01:46:53] and he ends up back in the bedroom,

[01:46:54] and then meets the next ghost.

[01:46:56] Yeah.

[01:46:59] Yeah,

[01:46:59] the 1999 one,

[01:47:01] you know,

[01:47:02] it wasn't...

[01:47:02] Like the 1971 one,

[01:47:04] it's animated.

[01:47:05] They can make it weirder.

[01:47:06] They can have the light.

[01:47:06] They can have the multiple arms.

[01:47:08] The 1999 one

[01:47:09] is at least like more

[01:47:12] androgynous,

[01:47:13] ambiguous.

[01:47:13] Yeah.

[01:47:14] The outfit

[01:47:14] and the caps there too.

[01:47:16] Yeah.

[01:47:17] Yeah.

[01:47:19] 1970 though,

[01:47:20] fail,

[01:47:21] just like a grand dam.

[01:47:23] Yes.

[01:47:24] The musical.

[01:47:24] they didn't put a lot of effort into that.

[01:47:27] Mm,

[01:47:28] yeah.

[01:47:30] And for Mickey,

[01:47:31] it was Jiminy Cricket,

[01:47:33] which,

[01:47:33] fine,

[01:47:34] fair.

[01:47:34] It's a fair substitution.

[01:47:37] Yeah.

[01:47:39] Um,

[01:47:40] I,

[01:47:41] by the way,

[01:47:41] I wanted to point out that

[01:47:43] in the 1999 version,

[01:47:47] the,

[01:47:47] the Patrick Stewart version,

[01:47:49] the,

[01:47:49] Ian McNeese played Fezziwig,

[01:47:53] the boss in the Christmas past.

[01:47:55] And in the 2017 movie,

[01:47:59] we're going to talk about

[01:47:59] the man who invented Christmas.

[01:48:01] Uh,

[01:48:02] he played Scrooge,

[01:48:03] Scrooge's publisher.

[01:48:04] Yeah.

[01:48:05] He played Edward Chapman,

[01:48:06] his publisher.

[01:48:07] Yeah.

[01:48:08] Yeah.

[01:48:08] That's cool.

[01:48:10] You know,

[01:48:10] I noticed like in the musical from,

[01:48:13] uh,

[01:48:14] 1970 that they often show Scrooge dancing with bell,

[01:48:18] Isabel,

[01:48:18] Fezziwig's ball.

[01:48:20] But I,

[01:48:21] and that,

[01:48:21] this comes up a lot in a lot of adaptations.

[01:48:23] They do that.

[01:48:24] And I keep looking through the book and I can't,

[01:48:26] that's not a thing in the book,

[01:48:27] right?

[01:48:27] No,

[01:48:28] it isn't.

[01:48:28] No,

[01:48:28] it isn't.

[01:48:29] Okay.

[01:48:31] But I do think it's good when they add more of their romance to the movie.

[01:48:34] Yeah.

[01:48:36] But the other,

[01:48:37] the,

[01:48:37] uh,

[01:48:38] 70s musical breakup was cold.

[01:48:42] It was,

[01:48:43] it really was.

[01:48:44] I actually like that.

[01:48:45] This is one of the things that the 84 version does well,

[01:48:49] which is when bell comes to collect him from the boarding school.

[01:48:54] Mm-hmm.

[01:48:55] And you actually see Scrooge interact with his father.

[01:48:59] Uh-huh.

[01:49:00] Um,

[01:49:00] who's credited in,

[01:49:01] is in the credits of Silas Scrooge.

[01:49:03] Yeah.

[01:49:04] I don't think they actually say his name on screen,

[01:49:06] but it does kind of give you a,

[01:49:08] um,

[01:49:09] a sense of how awkward that relationship is.

[01:49:12] Yeah.

[01:49:12] Because they've got a whole,

[01:49:13] they've got a whole Tywin,

[01:49:15] Tyrion,

[01:49:15] Lannister thing going on.

[01:49:18] Mm-hmm.

[01:49:18] Um,

[01:49:19] Scrooge's father blames him for the death of his mother.

[01:49:22] Like,

[01:49:22] like,

[01:49:23] his mother dies in childbirth.

[01:49:25] Mm-hmm.

[01:49:26] Um,

[01:49:26] and I do actually think that's something the 84,

[01:49:28] um,

[01:49:29] the 84 movie does quite well.

[01:49:32] Yeah.

[01:49:32] Okay.

[01:49:33] Yeah.

[01:49:34] Yeah.

[01:49:35] No,

[01:49:35] I agree.

[01:49:36] Um,

[01:49:36] and,

[01:49:37] and something the Muppets does well.

[01:49:38] We already brought up the,

[01:49:39] the Eagle being,

[01:49:41] I like that they added the headmaster at the school.

[01:49:43] Yes.

[01:49:44] And the whole,

[01:49:45] the,

[01:49:45] it's the American way.

[01:49:46] It's the British way.

[01:49:47] And also there's a,

[01:49:48] there's a great line in the novella where,

[01:49:51] um,

[01:49:52] the,

[01:49:53] uh,

[01:49:53] one of the,

[01:49:54] the headmaster's,

[01:49:55] assistant goes out and offers the coachman,

[01:49:58] uh,

[01:49:59] a curiously light wine and a curiously heavy piece of,

[01:50:02] a curiously heavy piece of cake.

[01:50:05] Yeah.

[01:50:06] which I always thought was,

[01:50:07] and if it was the tap he'd had before,

[01:50:09] he would rather not.

[01:50:10] Oh,

[01:50:12] I remember that.

[01:50:13] Yeah.

[01:50:14] The food stuff.

[01:50:15] It's also,

[01:50:15] why does the food have to be alive?

[01:50:20] But I like,

[01:50:21] mother told me never to eat singing fruit.

[01:50:23] Yeah.

[01:50:24] But yeah,

[01:50:24] I already said I liked,

[01:50:25] you know,

[01:50:26] fuzzy wig was an inspired,

[01:50:27] uh,

[01:50:28] choice.

[01:50:28] It's like Scrooge McDuck,

[01:50:30] fuzzy wig,

[01:50:30] obviously.

[01:50:31] It just works.

[01:50:32] Well,

[01:50:32] I like,

[01:50:33] I do like Ian McNeese's fuzzy wig as well.

[01:50:36] We like properly,

[01:50:38] you know,

[01:50:39] I like the way that.

[01:50:40] 1999,

[01:50:41] uh,

[01:50:41] Patrick Stewart.

[01:50:42] Yeah.

[01:50:42] They do that whole party.

[01:50:44] Mm hmm.

[01:50:46] Yeah.

[01:50:46] No,

[01:50:46] they do that.

[01:50:47] they do that.

[01:50:48] Well,

[01:50:48] um,

[01:50:49] okay.

[01:50:49] So one problem with the Muppets is that Scrooge is already Scrooge at the

[01:50:53] fuzzy wig party.

[01:50:54] And this is supposed to be a look at like,

[01:50:56] remember when you were happy?

[01:50:58] Yes.

[01:50:58] Even though bell's already there and it's,

[01:51:00] yeah.

[01:51:01] Wow.

[01:51:02] But they do have that when love is gun song,

[01:51:05] which I like more than you.

[01:51:06] Yeah.

[01:51:07] Also the,

[01:51:08] the,

[01:51:08] the actress they've got playing bell in the Muppets is just stunningly

[01:51:14] pretty.

[01:51:14] Hmm.

[01:51:15] Just stunningly pretty.

[01:51:18] Yeah.

[01:51:19] And then,

[01:51:19] and,

[01:51:20] uh,

[01:51:20] Mickey,

[01:51:21] you know,

[01:51:21] they had to condense things.

[01:51:22] So there's none of the childhood scenes.

[01:51:25] Um,

[01:51:25] they have the toe playing fuzzy wig,

[01:51:27] uh,

[01:51:28] daisies with young Scrooge instead of Donald,

[01:51:30] which is weird,

[01:51:33] but okay.

[01:51:34] And,

[01:51:34] um,

[01:51:35] their breakup,

[01:51:36] it's in the counting house because they have limited scenes that they can

[01:51:40] set up.

[01:51:40] So,

[01:51:40] but it does seem to take some cues from the Finney musical,

[01:51:44] but like Scrooge is even more horrible to Isabelle in this than in the,

[01:51:50] in that.

[01:51:50] So that's okay.

[01:51:52] Fine.

[01:51:52] There's another mark against the one.

[01:51:54] And in the 1951 one,

[01:51:56] Scrooge and Marley literally put fuzzy wig out of business.

[01:52:00] Hmm.

[01:52:01] True,

[01:52:01] true,

[01:52:01] true,

[01:52:01] true.

[01:52:02] Yeah.

[01:52:02] And you see him like sitting sadly in the coach.

[01:52:05] Yeah.

[01:52:06] Yeah.

[01:52:06] Oh yeah.

[01:52:08] Yeah.

[01:52:08] That's true.

[01:52:09] Hmm.

[01:52:10] Yeah.

[01:52:10] All right.

[01:52:11] Any other thoughts about the second stave,

[01:52:13] the ghost of Christmas past?

[01:52:14] I think this is my,

[01:52:15] probably my least favorite bit of the book of the novella.

[01:52:19] Really?

[01:52:20] Yeah.

[01:52:21] It's quite sad.

[01:52:22] And like the whole,

[01:52:23] the whole thing about Scrooge being abandoned at the boarding school,

[01:52:27] like even when I read it as a kid,

[01:52:29] that seemed like,

[01:52:30] yeah,

[01:52:31] you know what?

[01:52:32] Being a bit,

[01:52:32] being kind of down on Christmas,

[01:52:34] I can kind of see where Scrooge is coming.

[01:52:36] I can kind of see where Scrooge is coming from.

[01:52:40] It's very Dickensian.

[01:52:41] Yes,

[01:52:42] it is.

[01:52:44] I guess,

[01:52:44] yeah,

[01:52:45] it's something,

[01:52:45] you know,

[01:52:46] I always like music in a minor key.

[01:52:47] I love the original meet me in St.

[01:52:50] Louis versions to,

[01:52:51] um,

[01:52:52] yeah.

[01:52:52] Have yourself a merry little Christmas,

[01:52:54] you know?

[01:52:55] Yeah.

[01:52:56] Yeah.

[01:52:57] I think for me,

[01:52:58] Christmas is kind of laced with sadness.

[01:53:00] I don't know why,

[01:53:00] even though it's always been a big holiday in my family and I always,

[01:53:04] uh,

[01:53:05] except one year have celebrated it with my immediate family.

[01:53:08] So,

[01:53:08] yeah.

[01:53:09] Yeah.

[01:53:10] All right.

[01:53:10] Well,

[01:53:11] let's move on to perhaps the happiest of staves,

[01:53:14] stave three,

[01:53:15] the second of the three spirits,

[01:53:16] AKA the ghost of Christmas present.

[01:53:20] And,

[01:53:20] um,

[01:53:21] yeah,

[01:53:22] in terms of additions,

[01:53:23] I like in the 1951 one that they give Alice,

[01:53:26] like you,

[01:53:27] there's considering that's one of the older ones we're talking about today.

[01:53:29] They made Alice,

[01:53:31] you know,

[01:53:31] she was doing volunteer work.

[01:53:34] Um,

[01:53:34] they didn't do the mines or the lighthouse of the ship,

[01:53:37] but they got through the idea in a more personal way by tying.

[01:53:40] Yes.

[01:53:40] Alice,

[01:53:41] by the way,

[01:53:41] is bell and other adaptations.

[01:53:43] Yes.

[01:53:44] Yeah.

[01:53:45] Or Isabel Scrooge's love.

[01:53:47] Yeah.

[01:53:48] Yeah.

[01:53:49] Um,

[01:53:50] I actually quite like the 1984 depiction of the ghost of Christmas

[01:53:56] present.

[01:53:57] He's kind of sassy in the 1984.

[01:54:01] It's Edward,

[01:54:02] it's Edward Woodward.

[01:54:04] Yeah.

[01:54:04] Okay.

[01:54:05] There's an odd,

[01:54:05] odd,

[01:54:07] uh,

[01:54:07] casting choice,

[01:54:08] but yeah,

[01:54:08] he's kind of quite sort of,

[01:54:10] um,

[01:54:11] sassy with Scrooge.

[01:54:13] Okay.

[01:54:13] Okay.

[01:54:14] Well,

[01:54:15] I just,

[01:54:15] okay.

[01:54:15] I've always like,

[01:54:16] before I got my minor obsession with the ghost of Christmas past

[01:54:19] because of the description,

[01:54:20] it's so weird.

[01:54:21] Um,

[01:54:22] my favorite was always the ghost of Christmas present because of the,

[01:54:25] you know,

[01:54:26] I love Bacchus as,

[01:54:27] as a God,

[01:54:28] basically.

[01:54:28] I'm like,

[01:54:29] yes,

[01:54:30] eat,

[01:54:30] drink and be merry for tomorrow.

[01:54:31] We may die.

[01:54:33] Yeah.

[01:54:34] Um,

[01:54:36] I do notice in the 1984 version,

[01:54:38] the Cratchit seem better off like,

[01:54:41] and the son's collar fits.

[01:54:43] This is a touchy point for me now too.

[01:54:45] Like the son,

[01:54:46] uh,

[01:54:46] Cratchit son should have a collar that's too big for him because he's

[01:54:49] trying to grow into his father's role.

[01:54:52] Yeah.

[01:54:53] Yeah.

[01:54:54] But the 1984 one did show more of the nephew's games and they kind of

[01:54:59] like,

[01:55:00] like I,

[01:55:00] they've staged it in such a way that I wanted to like jump in and play

[01:55:04] the games too,

[01:55:05] you know?

[01:55:05] So they really gave you that feeling.

[01:55:07] Yeah.

[01:55:08] But then,

[01:55:10] yeah,

[01:55:10] instead of getting the classic kids under the robes of the ghost of

[01:55:14] Christmas present,

[01:55:15] the children that are ignorant and want,

[01:55:17] we talk about that again,

[01:55:18] more than the novella episode,

[01:55:19] but we get a destitute family in general,

[01:55:22] but then we get the kids under the robes again.

[01:55:24] So they're kind of like doubling down on the message in that sense.

[01:55:28] So I have to give them credit there.

[01:55:30] Um,

[01:55:31] and they get across well,

[01:55:33] that even the poor can find comfort on Christmas,

[01:55:36] which is like a big point that's made at length in the novella.

[01:55:41] Yeah.

[01:55:41] I mean,

[01:55:42] I like the 1999 version.

[01:55:45] It's because it spends quite a bit of time on the Cratchit's,

[01:55:49] uh,

[01:55:50] Christmas dinner.

[01:55:51] Yeah.

[01:55:51] I really love the description of that in the novella and,

[01:55:56] you know,

[01:55:56] the care that's taken and the whole,

[01:55:59] you know,

[01:55:59] taking the goose out to the bakers,

[01:56:02] the whole thing with the,

[01:56:03] the,

[01:56:03] the Christmas,

[01:56:04] the Christmas pudding as well.

[01:56:06] It's just like,

[01:56:07] it's just like,

[01:56:08] yeah,

[01:56:08] it's,

[01:56:09] it's a very,

[01:56:10] that whole thing about,

[01:56:12] um,

[01:56:12] you know,

[01:56:13] she wasn't sure if there was enough flour.

[01:56:15] That's a,

[01:56:16] that's a very Christmassy conversation.

[01:56:20] Cause we don't,

[01:56:21] we don't really do like craft classic,

[01:56:24] um,

[01:56:25] Christmas pudding.

[01:56:26] Cause none,

[01:56:26] nobody in our house likes it,

[01:56:28] but my mom will always make a trifle,

[01:56:30] a big trifle,

[01:56:32] um,

[01:56:33] for Christmas.

[01:56:34] And it's always like a,

[01:56:35] it's a,

[01:56:35] it's a big deal.

[01:56:37] Um,

[01:56:38] cause it's the one time,

[01:56:39] it's the one,

[01:56:39] it's the one time of years.

[01:56:41] She'll do that.

[01:56:42] And that whole conversation about,

[01:56:44] did it turn out right?

[01:56:45] Does it taste right?

[01:56:46] Right.

[01:56:46] That,

[01:56:47] that seems very,

[01:56:48] that seems very relatable.

[01:56:50] Right.

[01:56:51] I did is,

[01:56:52] that is a time back to the book too.

[01:56:54] And,

[01:56:54] um,

[01:56:55] that's also the one,

[01:56:56] as you pointed out earlier,

[01:56:57] that has that silent night montage and they actually stopped by the

[01:57:00] lighthouse and the ship.

[01:57:02] And then the mines,

[01:57:03] all these locations from the novella that are rarely put on,

[01:57:07] on screen.

[01:57:07] So,

[01:57:08] um,

[01:57:09] yeah,

[01:57:09] just extra points for all of that.

[01:57:14] Uh,

[01:57:15] and they do actually also age Christmas present in that one,

[01:57:19] which they don't do in many adaptations because Christmas present only lives

[01:57:23] through this experience and then dies.

[01:57:26] Yeah.

[01:57:26] Yeah.

[01:57:27] Also love them.

[01:57:28] Love them.

[01:57:29] This one,

[01:57:29] come on in and know me better,

[01:57:32] man.

[01:57:33] Or a little absent-minded spirit.

[01:57:35] Oh,

[01:57:36] I'm a large absent-minded spirit.

[01:57:39] Well,

[01:57:39] okay.

[01:57:40] So in the 1999 front,

[01:57:42] I have to ask you a question about,

[01:57:45] so Scrooge's sister who,

[01:57:48] she died giving birth to the nephew.

[01:57:50] And so this is also a point of tension between them,

[01:57:54] um,

[01:57:54] and all the stories,

[01:57:56] but her,

[01:57:57] her name in the novel,

[01:57:59] it's Fanny,

[01:57:59] which is like a classic old fashioned name in,

[01:58:03] I guess the U S and the UK.

[01:58:05] Yeah.

[01:58:05] In the U S the name Fanny now is kind of funny because it means,

[01:58:10] but,

[01:58:10] but I know it's an even more vulgar name in the UK.

[01:58:15] Yes.

[01:58:16] How odd is it?

[01:58:17] Because they changed in the 1999,

[01:58:19] her name to Fran,

[01:58:21] presumably to avoid,

[01:58:22] say,

[01:58:23] a woman's lady parts.

[01:58:24] Yes.

[01:58:25] but like,

[01:58:26] do people,

[01:58:27] is anyone named Fanny anymore?

[01:58:29] Actually,

[01:58:30] I have a,

[01:58:31] I had a student the other year and called Fanny,

[01:58:34] uh,

[01:58:35] whose first name was Fanny.

[01:58:36] Okay.

[01:58:38] I hadn't,

[01:58:38] she was,

[01:58:39] I'm not sure.

[01:58:40] I'm not sure she was American.

[01:58:42] She had an American accent,

[01:58:44] but I'm not sure that that was where she was originally from,

[01:58:48] but yeah,

[01:58:49] it's not a common name.

[01:58:50] Could be,

[01:58:51] could be.

[01:58:51] Yeah.

[01:58:53] All right.

[01:58:53] I have a little beef in the fact that,

[01:58:55] um,

[01:58:56] at the party,

[01:58:56] when they're at his nephew Fred's party,

[01:58:58] uh,

[01:58:59] there is always this guy,

[01:59:02] Topper,

[01:59:03] who's chasing a girl and she's described as chubby in the book,

[01:59:07] but she's never chubby in the adaptation.

[01:59:09] No,

[01:59:10] no.

[01:59:10] Chubby represent,

[01:59:12] representation,

[01:59:13] represent,

[01:59:13] represent the chubby.

[01:59:16] And also like Topper,

[01:59:17] he's a cad,

[01:59:18] you know,

[01:59:19] he's,

[01:59:19] he's such a,

[01:59:20] okay.

[01:59:20] So the nine,

[01:59:21] this is a B for the 1999 version.

[01:59:24] Is it?

[01:59:24] She actually,

[01:59:25] the sister was encouraged.

[01:59:27] So it's,

[01:59:27] it's Fred's wife's sister that his friend Topper is chasing.

[01:59:31] And she's actually encouraging it.

[01:59:34] Like it was borderline sexual predator in the novella.

[01:59:37] It feels like,

[01:59:38] and in the 1999 version,

[01:59:40] she's like,

[01:59:41] yeah.

[01:59:42] Yeah.

[01:59:43] And then they,

[01:59:44] it's kissing in Victorian England.

[01:59:46] I don't know about that.

[01:59:48] It's a,

[01:59:48] it's a,

[01:59:49] it's a bit,

[01:59:49] it's a bit,

[01:59:50] it's a bit problematic.

[01:59:52] And like,

[01:59:52] yeah,

[01:59:53] most of the adaptations either get rid of Topper altogether or play him

[01:59:57] like right down as a car,

[01:59:59] uh,

[02:00:00] as a character because yeah,

[02:00:02] he's a bit of a cad.

[02:00:04] Yeah.

[02:00:05] Yeah.

[02:00:05] Yeah.

[02:00:05] Um,

[02:00:07] I do think the 1971,

[02:00:09] the Elwood Finney musical did the present pretty well.

[02:00:13] I thought that that one had the best,

[02:00:14] uh,

[02:00:15] Christmas present throne of food.

[02:00:17] Like you really got like this room full of a throne of food.

[02:00:21] Yeah.

[02:00:22] Um,

[02:00:22] and Scrooge drinks the milk of human kindness.

[02:00:26] Seems to be wine.

[02:00:28] Yeah.