Beacon 23: S2 preview w/ Hugh Howey

[00:00:00] Music

[00:00:30] Hello, Will Shift Dustyans. Ready for season two of Beacon 23? It starts airing on MGM Plus, April 7th, and maybe some other places, more on that in a minute.

[00:00:40] So we are checking in one last time to get you ready, and not just checking in with you, the listeners, but also checking in with book author and one of the series EPs, Hugh Howie.

[00:00:50] We'll get to that in a bit, but first, who's we? Well, who's we, co-host Luke?

[00:00:56] Hi, we're back. I'm co-host Luke Minnip. I am the guy that hasn't read any of the books. Alicia has.

[00:01:04] This one book this time, yeah.

[00:01:06] Yeah, just the one book this time, yeah. Although as you'll hear from the Hugh Howie interview and if you've listened to our review of season one, the show departs fairly radically from the book this time.

[00:01:20] Our usual spoiler is to only spoil what's been aired and nothing that I would know from the books beyond that, but in this case, it's pretty much impossible to spoil beyond that anyway.

[00:01:30] But we will still take some precautions in the interview as you'll hear.

[00:01:34] But yeah, how have you been, Luke? It's been a minute since we heard from you.

[00:01:37] It has been a minute. I've been busy doing writing my own book. It's just due back at the editors at the end of the month.

[00:01:47] I've also had a spell of poor health.

[00:01:52] So yeah, basically between actual paid work and not being particularly well, that's sort of why I've been on hiatus for a while.

[00:02:07] Yeah, I'm glad you're feeling better this week.

[00:02:11] Yeah, much, thank you.

[00:02:13] And for those who haven't heard before, what is the book that you've been working on about?

[00:02:18] So it is a history of Britain's involvement in the Iraq war.

[00:02:23] So it really covers the period from the Revolution of 1958 all the way up to 2004.

[00:02:32] So a nice pairing with a discussion from my Hugh Howie interview.

[00:02:36] Yeah.

[00:02:38] We recently dropped in this feed our episode with our wrap up of season one and with some season two predictions.

[00:02:45] But that was recorded back in December. How are you feeling about season one of Beacon 23 almost four months later?

[00:02:52] Well, in preparation for this episode, I went back and did a quick re-watch of the final for three episodes.

[00:03:01] My thoughts are still very much the same, which is, oh poor Bart.

[00:03:06] Just breaking my heart for Bart.

[00:03:09] And I'm really looking forward to what comes next.

[00:03:14] Obviously season one ended on an absolute doozy of a cliffhanger with what happened with Asta.

[00:03:24] So we've still got A.L.F. and Fidel and Faddle, the two terrorists, stuck on the beacon as well as Haleen.

[00:03:33] So I'm really interested to see how long A.L.F and Mutton Jeff stick around,

[00:03:42] whether they're going to be key characters in season two.

[00:03:46] And also what's happened to Asta because, you know, Lena Heady is still listed on the IMDB cast list for the show.

[00:03:58] We can sort of assume from that that she's going to appear in some capacity.

[00:04:02] Right. Well, we know from the trailer that she is showing up as, yeah, we'll talk about that more when we get to the trailers.

[00:04:11] But we know we're going to see her a little bit, but it seems like she'll be taking a more backseat role this season.

[00:04:18] But yeah, we're going to dive into that in the third section of the podcast.

[00:04:23] As far as Beacon 23 in general, though, a little bit of news.

[00:04:28] It's apparently starting to become officially available outside the U.S., not here in the Netherlands yet.

[00:04:33] But several Canadians have confirmed it's there on Prime Video.

[00:04:37] And there was a press release that says that you can expect to see it on Prime Video also in Australia, New Zealand and Sub-Saharan Africa.

[00:04:47] And also on Paramounts, which may be Channel 5, Mi5 and Paramount Plus in the UK and Ireland.

[00:04:53] And the PCCW Media Entertainment Now Studio video on demand in Hong Kong and Macau.

[00:05:00] And on Disney Star in Bulgaria and the Balkans so far.

[00:05:04] So if anyone finds it showing up in any of those places, let us know.

[00:05:09] It doesn't seem to be out in the UK quite yet, but that seems to be coming soon.

[00:05:13] Yeah.

[00:05:14] And yeah, there's no word on Western Europe where I live at this point.

[00:05:19] But what is interesting is that another MGM Plus show from has just had its first season drop on Netflix.

[00:05:25] But now it seems like everything's dropping on Netflix that doesn't mean it won't show up elsewhere.

[00:05:30] Okay.

[00:05:31] Well, it seems like all these I'm suddenly seeing all these HBO and Disney shows and stuff that are just on Netflix for a small window.

[00:05:38] Oh, that's weird.

[00:05:39] Yeah.

[00:05:40] Oh, Netflix, I think is winning the streaming wars.

[00:05:43] And they're like, okay, we'll be a secondary market for the other streamers.

[00:05:46] Well, that's kind of depressing.

[00:05:48] Yeah.

[00:05:49] Well, the sub raise charges even more.

[00:05:52] Yeah.

[00:05:53] Um, yeah, as I said, we'll look at the season two trailer and a little more depth later in this episode.

[00:05:59] But first I got a chance to sit down with Hugh Howie, the author of Beacon 23 to talk about the show being an executive producer and changes from his book.

[00:06:08] And this, as I said before, it's going to be spoiler free beyond, of course, we are going to spoil Beacon 23 season one here.

[00:06:15] But there is a second part where we go into spoilers for the book, the silo series and even a little sand.

[00:06:21] And that you'll find that second part of the interview on the book club.

[00:06:25] Luke, you got a chance to listen to this interview already.

[00:06:28] Let's give our listeners a chance and come back to talk about it.

[00:06:32] That will come up right after a quick break.

[00:06:36] Research request granted.

[00:06:38] Spoilers, I'm off.

[00:06:42] I'm here with Hugh Howie, author of the book Beacon 23 as well as the silo series of books after which this podcast is named.

[00:06:49] Not to mention a bunch of other sci-fi page turners for the thinking man.

[00:06:53] Thank you for joining me today, Hugh.

[00:06:55] How are you?

[00:06:56] I'm doing great.

[00:06:57] My pleasure to be here.

[00:06:58] So we were just discussing the spoiler policy with you, but for listeners at home, basically we're not going to have book spoilers in the first half of this interview beyond what's been shown on screen and Beacon or Silo.

[00:07:10] But then we'll save some book spoilers to discuss at the end in a separate section.

[00:07:15] But I guess it's kind of hard to spoil the TV show, Beacon 23 based on the book.

[00:07:20] It's so different.

[00:07:21] Was that a surprise to you?

[00:07:23] As a matter of fact, no, it wasn't a surprise because I was in the writer's room early on even before that, Zach and I were chatting when he was trying to figure out how to adapt this to TV.

[00:07:36] And one of the first things he came up with was one of the biggest deviations, which is the background for Halen and even giving him a name, which I tried to avoid doing in the book.

[00:07:50] But I mean, when I wrote the book, I was not thinking about getting TV shows made and slash just a serialized story for myself.

[00:08:00] Right.

[00:08:01] Yeah, from the very beginning we're making major changes.

[00:08:05] And when my attitude towards getting things adapted is to support the creative energy from all the people who jump into the project, not to try to keep the book the same because the book's not going to change.

[00:08:18] No, that's true.

[00:08:19] That's true.

[00:08:20] I really appreciate it.

[00:08:22] I love the book.

[00:08:23] It's just a really fun one.

[00:08:25] But the TV show is also adding new things in a different way.

[00:08:29] Silo feels like they're building the world out sideways and Beacon 23.

[00:08:33] It feels like they are using it's a different world, but they're mining a lot of similar ideas.

[00:08:40] I think though a lot of people don't realize that your role in the Beacon 23 adaptation is a bit different than your role with Silo so that it's you're not always involved to the same degree.

[00:08:52] Silo, you're an executive producer so you get to have a lot of input.

[00:08:57] Yeah, I know first of all, I know a lot of authors who would love to know how do you get that?

[00:09:03] How do you secure those rights for yourself, the ability to have that input?

[00:09:09] Well, if it was just me, I would probably not have any of those rights because I am really pretty submissive when it comes to negotiating with Hollywood.

[00:09:20] But I have agents who are some of the best in the business and lawyers.

[00:09:25] So I'm actually an executive producer on Beacon as well.

[00:09:28] Oh, okay.

[00:09:29] Yeah, it's kind of like pretty much mandatory for my agents.

[00:09:34] They will not let me be involved in something if I don't get an EP credit.

[00:09:39] The amount that I stay involved beyond that is pretty much up to me and to the producers.

[00:09:46] Like how often do they want me to be in the room?

[00:09:51] How much do they want?

[00:09:53] How much notes do they want on scripts for me?

[00:09:55] And I would say my involvement on Silo was more, but my involvement on Beacon was quite a lot.

[00:10:01] Like I was in basically just moved in with Zach for a week and we hung out every day going through how to structure the story and what kind of story to tell.

[00:10:11] What the seasons would look like if we got more seasons because it was a pretty big challenge how to turn what could be an easy hour and a half feature film into a much bigger TV show.

[00:10:23] Because the book doesn't have enough material for a TV show.

[00:10:28] We had to come up with new conflicts and new characters.

[00:10:31] Yeah, how does it work with the rights? Could there be a feature film version that's more faithful to the book?

[00:10:39] Yeah, I mean given enough time everything will be adapted in infinite number of times.

[00:10:45] I would say in a million years there will be like 5,000 Spider-Man movies to watch. You could choose your favorite.

[00:10:53] I also think we're going to get into a world pretty soon where fans will be able to make their own versions of every book because of AI tools.

[00:11:01] They won't be maybe the same polish but they'll be able to see almost every story visualized that you've ever wanted to see.

[00:11:09] I know a lot of people who are really into the fan fiction community and they are kind of exploring the multiverse of their favorite worlds I guess.

[00:11:18] Yeah, I've had a lot of that with both of these worlds, silo and beacon, a lot of fan fiction.

[00:11:24] I don't know what the timeline will be but 100 years from now for sure creating fan fiction versions of films and TV shows will be as simple as what we do with written fan fiction.

[00:11:41] Yeah, I mean I of course have to fall down on the side of I love new original stories but I see there's no reason why people shouldn't you know in a sort of video game kind of way explore the different possibilities.

[00:11:55] If it helps, it helps me anyway to think about fan fiction through the lens of other art forms. So when you start playing a musical instrument you rarely pick up a guitar and start figuring out a brand new chord progression.

[00:12:10] You play covers for years before you learn the basic techniques from those hits to start writing your own music.

[00:12:20] Anyone who's ever painted you know has done a still life as painted a bowl of fruit.

[00:12:26] So I think we imagine this like ex nihilo creativity and writing in a way that we don't expect it from any other art form and I'm not sure what why that is but it is a pretty universal thing.

[00:12:39] We have a distaste for.

[00:12:41] Well I don't have a distaste for fan fiction just for if it's coming I guess just for it's being able to be generated too quickly you know because then I worry about it losing the soul and you know what makes it special what makes people really fall in love with it.

[00:12:57] Yeah I agree I think instead of instead of seeing the fan fiction as the output we have to see it as the practice in the process and know that that writer is taking an interest in that is going to eventually write that original story that you're going to fall in love with.

[00:13:13] Right exactly yeah because you you learn by I mean I know in my growing up you know in school we were taught to copy right this in the style of Camus right this in the style of Steinbeck.

[00:13:27] And by doing that we could learn to find our own styles and learn how to play with the tropes and that yeah that makes sense.

[00:13:35] So yeah this beacon 23 though the series went on quite a roller coaster before landing at mgm plus but I guess silo did as well was there a moment where you thought both might fall through.

[00:13:46] The entire time I thought both of them through I never expect anything to make it onto the screen and I think that has allowed me to ignore the process for you know for 10 years while I just concentrate on other things.

[00:14:02] Yeah just not only does it not help to agonize over some of these projects I think it could be really harmful to them like if you're the author who's constantly pinging people saying what about this and what about that and you're whining online about it

[00:14:19] like just putting on a negativity into the project right not even in a karmic system but in a like why do we want to work with someone who's you know a squeaky wheel.

[00:14:32] Right no we have this other project and those bothering us about it and we can just work on it on our own time.

[00:14:37] So it keeps me sane and I think it probably gave both projects a better chance of getting made.

[00:14:44] So you say you give you know once you sign the rights to this to someone you give them the space to develop it and then you say come back to me when you're ready to talk more.

[00:14:54] Yeah like if you have any questions or want me to read a script and get feedback.

[00:15:00] You know we have several projects that are underway that no one even knows are being worked on and I don't tease things or update people on them.

[00:15:08] Sometimes I forget things are being worked on and then a script gets sent to me like oh this is pretty good and then we'll get the rights back to something and figure out like how to go back out with it again.

[00:15:20] Yeah well it's coming from good source material.

[00:15:23] So the beacon characters we talked about already that Halen is just a new name but basically the kind of the same protagonist and of course Rocky showed up and the lighthouse poster but basically everyone else is new in name at least.

[00:15:41] Do you see any more analogies between any of the characters in the show and characters from the book.

[00:15:47] I think Aster is pretty much taken from the other lighthouse keeper who sets up you know you don't meet her till halfway through the book.

[00:16:02] But what happened I think if you told the story the way the books told the first episode probably there's zero lines of dialogue you know it's just Halen or Digger going through the motions of like trying to save a ship and failing.

[00:16:19] And I don't know it'd be very avant-garde to do that.

[00:16:23] I'm not sure if we would keep people through a whole season if that was our first episode.

[00:16:28] So kind of the direction from the studio was how do we get and we'd already had Lena had he cast at this point and if you're paying for Lena you want to get Lena on camera.

[00:16:39] Yeah so it's like how do you get Lena on you know on camera.

[00:16:45] Yeah from like five minutes in rather than episode five you know.

[00:16:52] So that takes a major rethinking of like what's the plot and then when you're in the room you're like well what's what are the important things what are really what's the story about what are we trying to tell the story about.

[00:17:02] And for me the story was about a soldier suffering from severe trauma and depression.

[00:17:09] Right.

[00:17:11] Thinking that if he ran away from the war that gave him the scars that they would heal when solitude is one of the worst things that we can experience as humans it's the way we punish people in prison.

[00:17:24] Like you're already in prison how do we make you in prison more you know we make you be by yourself and with your thoughts and no distractions.

[00:17:34] So his prescription was the worst thing he could have done for himself.

[00:17:39] And retaining all of that I think was like the real challenge and what we were aiming for with the adaptation like and how do we show catharsis and you know it'll take another season to get to that but that's really the goal of the show.

[00:17:57] Right.

[00:17:58] And okay so two questions come from that one is that I notice in the book especially you know it's really is about his identity as a soldier and you talk a lot about the military and the experience of being that I was wondering what what inspired that or what made you very interested in exploring that subject when writing the short stories the book is made up of.

[00:18:24] Well I've never been in the military. I find it fascinating. I think it's one of the great tragedies of human existence that over time and it's largely fallen to young men to be kind of conscripted against their will if you look over human history most of us against their

[00:18:45] well and to going off and fighting for the ego of a handful of people who don't put themselves usually in harm's way and leaving behind families and mothers and sons and daughters to like fend for themselves and suffer in other ways.

[00:19:04] And being the same people on the receiving end of suffering because of all the civilian harm and the fact that we have you know made baited into orbit and done so many amazing technological artistic things but war has not gone away like what we see in Ukraine and in the Middle East right now.

[00:19:29] It's such a tragedy and so something I've explored even in my very first book a young adult sci-fi space opera.

[00:19:37] I wrote a lot about war in that book. So I'm writing about it not through someone who's experienced it. I've got my own you know traumas and near death experiences but one of the things that I find really perverse is that we celebrate war and people who go to war in a really strange way instead of all just being really sad about it.

[00:19:58] And seeing it as a failure instead where if we see someone in uniform instead of saying like man I'm sorry that you're having to do this because of yeah instead of like thank you for your service now board the airplane first like.

[00:20:14] The you know we we salute we honor and there's gonna be any honor with the necessity of war at all.

[00:20:22] And yes it's really as much as I talk about war and beacon 23 is an anti war book it's very much.

[00:20:29] The book about a desire for peace.

[00:20:32] Right now that does shine through.

[00:20:35] So the the other question that that came out of what you're talking about before is I did wonder if there was any bit of in the book I did talk about this in the podcast already there's this woman scarlet who shows up and asked her kind of reminded me of her in the fact that she seemed.

[00:20:54] There to deliver the message from what is the artifact in the books but it was the I mean artifacts in the show riff in the books.

[00:21:04] Yeah I think you know scarlet has a pretty tragic character arc in the in the book and I think she brings part of in the book digger in the story Halen's past back to him to help unlock you know what the.

[00:21:23] What the universe is trying to the message is trying to send to him.

[00:21:28] And what one of the hallmarks I think of adaptation with people are reading books and trying to figure out how to turn them into scripts they're looking at which characters they can combine like how to simplify the casting.

[00:21:39] If if something can be done by the same character like in style we got rid of you know the mechanic who worked in I.T. who gave a you know a very important piece of information like can we get that from someone else.

[00:21:54] Yeah yeah which is a huge part of the story and it's sad not to have him in the adaptation but there was a way of doing it without him that kept us from having to cast and add pages and you know it's it's.

[00:22:08] Really seeing how the sausage is made it's very eye opening and there's all this just conversations all the time about that really a lot of them pulled out a budget like can we afford to make it this way.

[00:22:21] Right like cricket I guess yeah exactly and we so it is one of the interesting behind the scenes things we try to figure out how to make cricket work which for people who have read the book there were.

[00:22:34] There's alien races in the book and alien races are a big kind of challenge for adaptation because they're expensive at CGI.

[00:22:44] So we actually had a day where a dog trainer came out to our little writer's room and brought some dogs and showed them like what dogs could do because we're thinking we could dress a dog and pull this off so we toyed with the idea but in the end again it came down to budget.

[00:23:01] Yeah I mean it's also animals are difficult to work with on set right like you warned that maybe we shouldn't hold our breath for shadow and silo.

[00:23:10] I think shadow yeah I don't know that we will try to pull it off but you know cats are probably the least troublesome of all of them because.

[00:23:21] Okay they're expected to be chaotic right like we don't we don't we're not you know they're not really interacting with humans the way dogs do so.

[00:23:30] But yeah again it might be an unfortunate casualty but I don't think you could do it any more powerfully than the book does anyway.

[00:23:39] I get more emails about shadow than I think about any other character I've ever read about.

[00:23:45] So what are some of your favorite changes from vegan 23 to the TV show like new characters or themes added.

[00:23:55] I really like the TV shows very philosophical there's a lot of there's a lot of depth to what what the story is exploring in the in the book it's mostly about personal trauma and the cycle of war.

[00:24:14] And there's you know I wasn't really a buzzword back on the book and now it's everywhere and so some of these main major characters that have been introduced exact came up with really delving into you know questions of immortality and.

[00:24:32] What it would mean to have copies of ourselves and what it means to interact with with AI so it's almost a religious element very religious and I think that's what I think people.

[00:24:44] Who are dreaming of singularity which is a great curse while spearheaded idea there these are people who don't have religious belief or trying to achieve the same thing that religious people have which is.

[00:24:59] Some hope of an eternal life and I think you're going to see a technium kind of you know like a religious adherence to.

[00:25:12] Like pushing technology as fast and as forward as possible in order to achieve some of the same things that some of the same comforts of religion provides.

[00:25:23] Yeah and well okay I'm going to save that question for the spoiler section has to do with the end of the book but how much do you know about what will happen in season two of being in twenty three do you have you seen final scripts or is it going to be a surprise to you.

[00:25:39] I read all the scripts and so I will say that at one point I knew what happened I've read so much since then.

[00:25:48] I found this true even of silo sitting beside my wife like right when the episode dropped it would start watching it and she would say like what happens next I would say honestly I can remember I.

[00:26:02] The script so long ago watch the daily so long ago.

[00:26:06] More fun for you right it's so much more fun I love forgetting I know so there's so many of my favorite books and movies I wish I could forget to watch them for the first time but yeah so I can't keep straight the differences in and you read so many versions of the scripts you forget which ones were shot because entire scenes.

[00:26:25] Would be taken out so yeah it's surprising for me and I'm looking forward to season two because season one asked a lot of questions and season two is going to answer them it's gonna be a lot of fun to watch.

[00:26:38] Yeah season two we have new show runners but it was still filmed back to back so how much was shuffled around when the new show runners came in.

[00:26:48] I think a lot of the shuffling happens you know with editing but there was a lot of writing you know while those writing for season two while season one was shooting and what happened I think season one started filming and everyone was just like blown away by the the cast and the sets what we were getting.

[00:27:06] Yeah they were like let's like while we have all this build and when we have these people under contract.

[00:27:12] Let's shoot you know this many more episodes so I think the fun thing was just coming in knowing that we had the backing of the studio to tell more story and allowed like you know a lot of creativity and imagination and also knowing that.

[00:27:30] We're probably I think you can tell a stronger story when you know how much story get to tell so we were trying to tell season two and we're like are we gonna tell five seasons we have no idea but we had a pretty good sense okay there's gonna be two seasons to wrap this up.

[00:27:48] That gives us the freedom to like you know tell a definitive conclusion.

[00:27:54] So there's no thought maybe season three it's just this is intended to be a two season story at the end.

[00:28:01] That's my feeling I Hollywood is so impossible to know like a right I've seen I've seen shows get revived because of reception and other ideas.

[00:28:12] You know the cool thing about the beacon similar to some of my other stories this is this is beacon 23 so there's like a lot of universe to tell stories and sure so I could see five years from now saying someone saying like let's do an animated feature for you know just to stream on on hulu or Netflix.

[00:28:33] I'm like I know what you're talking about but it sounds awesome let's do it.

[00:28:37] Yeah no I have to think of dune a bit with you know the they're just these little teases in both the book and the show that like dune ended up being written you know someone came back and wrote speaking of fan fiction.

[00:28:51] Entire novels to fill in those gaps and things like where astor says oh this is the I don't remember the view from this side of a Ryan like well how big is this universe what is the government like what's going on in the other beacons like I need to know about beacon 21 you know.

[00:29:08] Is yeah is is the AI like Bart or probably not.

[00:29:12] Yeah I have so much you can explore and that's the beauty of fan fiction really not just for the readers but the people who write them you know I the first thing I ever wrote was kind of like hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy fan fiction.

[00:29:26] And it's just because I finished reading the book when I was like 12 and I didn't want it to be over so I just grabbed you know my dad's computer and started you know pecking away at more adventures.

[00:29:36] Yeah yeah absolutely.

[00:29:39] Okay so I'm gonna end the non-spoiler section with a more general question from my co-host Luke he asks when you're writing do you tend to come up with characters first or plot.

[00:29:50] It's a great question.

[00:29:52] I would say the idea probably comes first but the idea I have ideas all the time I could have you know hundred story ideas in a week but none of those ideas are ones that I that I seize on and want to work on unless really quickly the character being impacted by that idea comes to me.

[00:30:13] So the idea comes first but it's not like I have an idea that I have to like okay now I need to figure out a character I'm usually on to the next idea and then the next idea and then I'll come up with an idea and say how would that impact you know this person in that world.

[00:30:29] And that's when I want to start writing so I really don't get attached to the idea until I have a character to see it through.

[00:30:36] Okay so like the world is kind of thought experiment until there's a being that creates more urgency in it.

[00:30:45] Absolutely.

[00:30:47] So Luke what did you think of his answer to your question?

[00:30:49] I thought that was a really interesting answer to the question also I like I like you have these attitude towards adaptation.

[00:30:59] I think that's probably the right attitude to have but obviously I'm writing nonfiction and he's writing fiction but I would very difficult to let go of my work and let go of my baby's.

[00:31:14] So you don't want Ridley Scott to adapt your book?

[00:31:18] Yeah so I think it's like an incredibly healthy attitude to have towards adaptation and I like the fact that he's basically as involved as an EP as a go runner or the writers want him to be.

[00:31:39] That's probably the right way to do it.

[00:31:42] I love the fact that he'll be reading scripts and because he's read them like six months or a year before the show was actually recorded he still got no idea what's going on.

[00:31:54] That's like the perfect situation.

[00:31:57] It's like the ideal veil of ignorance.

[00:32:00] I've written the thing but I've completely forgotten what's going on.

[00:32:02] Yeah but it's also like anyone who's ever read shooting scripts and then like I when I've worked in games you know I was working on a tie-in game for the Valyrian movie so I got the shooting script to that movie and I've read all of the Valyrian comics and stuff too.

[00:32:17] But still some of the things in the game we would send them to Luc Besson to get approved and they would have changed in the movie from the shooting script.

[00:32:29] It was so difficult to explain to people like just because it's in the shooting script doesn't mean it's on screen.

[00:32:36] Also top class name drop there Alicia just top class name drop.

[00:32:41] I mean I don't know him personally I just worked on a project for one of his films once.

[00:32:45] Cool.

[00:32:47] So were there any other surprises in the interview for you?

[00:32:51] No I mean I think it's interesting the idea that because obviously I haven't read the Beacon 23 books I think it's interesting that he's talking about most of the book being an internal monologue and so you kind of have to invent characters to allow.

[00:33:10] To allow Halen to allow Digger to externalize what he's thinking.

[00:33:16] I do like the idea of like a really avant-garde show that's just like internal monologue.

[00:33:22] I thought the I thought that I don't know whether it's deliberate but I thought the fact that the characters name is Digger in the books.

[00:33:29] Yeah well that's just what he calls him he doesn't really have a name in the book.

[00:33:34] So it's apparently Hugh Howie's private nickname for him.

[00:33:36] Yeah well Digger is the Australian equivalent to a Tommy or a GI in US military slang so I thought that was interesting.

[00:33:48] There must be what comes from.

[00:33:50] There's like any meaning for it.

[00:33:52] Yeah definitely is as you heard it's very much a book about the military and you can see that in the show too.

[00:33:58] Yeah and I just to pick up on something just to put my professorial hat on for a second.

[00:34:06] Just to pick up on what Hugh Howie was saying about conscription and soldiers being compelled to fight.

[00:34:14] Actually there's a good deal of like psychological and sociological evidence to suggest that's actually not how conscription works.

[00:34:24] It's not that people are compelled to fight when you try and force people into the armed forces.

[00:34:32] That's when you get rebellion and revolution.

[00:34:35] Mostly conscription works because people on some level consent to be conscripted.

[00:34:42] I mean that there is social familial.

[00:34:46] I think expectation.

[00:34:48] The way he was using conscription I guess maybe this is an American UK thing but he was meaning people who are drafted.

[00:34:55] Yeah no I think it's the same things still applies so all military service is on some level voluntary or is at least done with tacit consent.

[00:35:10] I mean he's definitely thinking about specific drafts that we've had in the US about history where you're just it's not voluntary.

[00:35:20] People try to get out of it but they would literally just say anyone between these ages who was born on this day.

[00:35:28] Yeah but what I'm saying is people have to still be willingly part of that system when you actually try and force people to do that.

[00:35:37] That's where the whole system breaks down.

[00:35:42] So yes there are always individuals that dodges drafts, there are always individuals that resist either passively or actively but mostly people go along with it because it's the path of least resistance.

[00:35:54] Hmm yeah I don't know maybe this is a UK US difference because there's definitely been a rich history of people who did not want to be sent to fight and were forced to do so.

[00:36:04] And the problem in the US as is the problem with most things in most places is that the people with more money tend to find reasons to get out of it.

[00:36:17] Yeah that's true, that's true.

[00:36:19] The people who have fewer means fewer connections who are the ones who are forced to go through with it.

[00:36:25] I actually looked into this as part of my PhD research, I actually did part of it is on the mechanics of the draft in Vietnam.

[00:36:36] And actually the really interesting thing you find there is it's often talked about as if there is a racial bias towards like drafting people of black or Hispanic heritage.

[00:36:50] The numbers actually don't bear that out what there is a sharp class distinction.

[00:36:57] Yeah that's what I would say.

[00:36:59] So you are just as likely to be drafted if you were poor on whites and if you were poor on black but what's really interesting as well is.

[00:37:10] There's a lopsidedness into who has the money.

[00:37:12] Yeah but what's really interesting is it's not the people at the very top of the world structure that actually dodged the draft.

[00:37:21] They actually volunteer in disproportionate numbers.

[00:37:25] They get to be officers.

[00:37:27] Yeah partly because there is a tradition of service so it's actually people in the middle that are most likely to draft.

[00:37:34] So yeah I will take my professorial hat off because I think we've gone off on the quite long digression there.

[00:37:42] But that's just following up on the conversation I had with Hugh Howie.

[00:37:46] He'd be happy for us to be discussing this in relation to his books.

[00:37:50] He'd be happy that his work has sparked this conversation.

[00:37:54] Yeah so as I mentioned we do have a second half of that interview with Hugh Howie.

[00:37:59] We're going to spoilers including Silo and Sand spoilers and you'll find that in the book club link in the show notes.

[00:38:05] And I've also left time stamps in the show notes for that episode where the spoilers are and what book they're spoiling.

[00:38:12] But there are a few things we talked about in that second half there might be of general interest or just to run down a few teas a little.

[00:38:19] So Silo season two has is finishing filming or has finished filming right about now.

[00:38:26] There was of course strike delays but it's all wrapping up now and Hugh Howie has seen the dailies and he sounds even more psyched about this season than season one.

[00:38:35] Season three is not officially greenlit yet but the scripts are ready for when it is.

[00:38:42] And Hugh Howie also has a new Silo short story coming out this year that he sounds really excited about.

[00:38:48] He says it's one of his favorite things that he's written in a long time.

[00:38:51] And also the third sand book is expected this year still.

[00:38:55] And beyond that he has many irons in the TV production fire so I think we're looking at the beginning of a rich producing career for him.

[00:39:06] And he also teased that he'll be back on this pod to catch up again after the season of Beacon 23 wraps up so we can dissect what we are all about to witness over the next couple of months.

[00:39:18] Awesome.

[00:39:20] We're going to take one last quick break and come back with some community feedback and our final season two preseason predictions based on the new trailer released two weeks ago.

[00:39:31] The Quantum Tunneler has new messages.

[00:39:35] So we are back and yeah I was during our little break while we were dealing with life health stuff.

[00:39:44] I've been collecting some feedback from our listeners so just to go through some of it now so this has been collected over the past couple of months.

[00:39:53] We have Coco Colburn says wow just finished the last episode of Beacon 23 season one after screaming no when the final scene happened.

[00:40:03] I watched the trailer for season two which looks even better still confused by what's going on lol but loving the trip looking forward to season two more answers as to what is behind them Quantum AI and the relationship to the QTA and more insights into what is behind the artifact.

[00:40:20] Is it AI too and more spaceship fighting.

[00:40:24] What do you think Luke.

[00:40:26] Yeah I mean definitely no is the correct response to that final scene.

[00:40:30] From season one.

[00:40:33] Yeah I mean I'm looking forward to all of that.

[00:40:36] I don't mean we can talk about this when we get to the trailer but I'd also like to know more about the column who they are what they think and what their motives are.

[00:40:46] And yeah like I say I'm interested to see how much of a lift we get in this season whether he's a permanent character or whether he is just somebody who pops in and out.

[00:40:58] Yeah he was prominently featured in the trailer.

[00:41:01] Yes he was.

[00:41:03] So I think by the way the Quantum AI and the relationship to the QTA I'm guessing that the QTA.

[00:41:09] I guess they existed before the Quantum AI they so they were they started I'm guess still guessing their name is the Quantum Tunneling Agency.

[00:41:17] And then.

[00:41:18] A. Liff or Aleph I now I'm forgetting how to pronounce his name.

[00:41:23] That he invented the Quantum AI and I think my guess in what we kind of talked about before is that harmony is maybe a sort of evolution of this hope Quantum AI he created based on his daughter.

[00:41:39] Yeah I think that that's certainly one possibility.

[00:41:42] So Sub-Zero commented after episodes seven and eight.

[00:41:47] Oh no I think I missed the window for feedback on episode seven and eight.

[00:41:51] I lost track of time well there's the window never closes as long as we're making episodes.

[00:41:57] So they said there's a trippy hallucinogenic sudden way to how they cut from one scene to the next that is probably intentional but it threw me off a bit throughout the series.

[00:42:06] Otherwise I think the series grew on me especially in the second half.

[00:42:09] The relationship between Halen and Aster really solidified in the last couple of episodes.

[00:42:15] That montage of their shift changes was funny and endearing you could see their bond growing stronger by the day.

[00:42:21] I kept waiting for one day where they both just stayed in bed together.

[00:42:25] Winky tongue out face.

[00:42:27] As for the ending I think I'm in a wait and see state a lot hinges on how they pay off the cliffhanger in season two.

[00:42:34] I really hope what happened to Aster at the end was either not real or gets quote unquote fixed somehow.

[00:42:41] What do you think Luke?

[00:42:43] Oh I think it was definitely real.

[00:42:45] Whether or not I mean whether or not they get fixed quote unquote whether Aster like returns in some non-carporial or even corporeal form maybe.

[00:42:58] Who knows.

[00:42:59] I think we might have said this in the review of the episode when we looked at episode seven but I hope they stripped that bed regularly.

[00:43:09] That was going to get really crunchy really fast.

[00:43:13] Yeah I mean yeah I mean in terms of what happens to Aster I mean she is dead.

[00:43:21] That version of Aster is dead.

[00:43:23] Yeah I don't think there's any ambiguity about that.

[00:43:26] No in the season two trailer lingers on that factor.

[00:43:32] Yeah but whether that means Aster is dead is a different question.

[00:43:36] Yeah it seems we're going to get some interaction with her but I think her corporeal form is gone.

[00:43:43] But the interesting what we'll talk about when we get to the trailer.

[00:43:47] No go ahead say it.

[00:43:49] What I'm wondering is so that is that we see Lena Heady on the view screen in the trailer for season two but that doesn't necessarily mean that that's Aster.

[00:44:01] That could be the aliens using Aster's image, memories whatever to try and communicate with Halo and that doesn't just because we see Lena Heady that doesn't necessarily mean that that's Aster that could be another version of Aster.

[00:44:18] That could be the intelligence using Aster's image to try and communicate with Halo.

[00:44:25] So I think it's ambiguous as to what happened to the character or the character is returning.

[00:44:33] Yeah yeah because also we saw in the first season that Halo's old military buddy Gashad we saw him talking to quote unquote her but was it her?

[00:44:44] Was it her? Did she somehow join the spores, the artifacts whatever happened with Aster as she was dying or was it just these spores using a projection of someone they know Halo and trust to manipulate him.

[00:44:59] Because the thing I keep coming back to is this whole idea of communicating with an intelligence that's not human and I keep thinking of the bait and switch they do in Star Trek The Motion Picture where Ensign Ailea is killed and then Vija like uses her image, uses her memories to send back a probe you know a means of communication with the

[00:45:29] crew of the Enterprise so I wonder whether it's that kind of deal.

[00:45:36] We also got an email from Rick and Rick said who's by the way also the one if you listen to the teaser for the Oscars episode and I explained the whole situation with my hearing.

[00:45:52] Rick was the one who gave the tip for doing the hot water over your ears that helps save his eardrums one time.

[00:46:00] Anyway he says I've enjoyed your podcast on Beacon 23 and he said he was looking forward to you know getting the end of the season which is now out of course and he says I'm particularly interested in hearing your reactions to that finale into that very annoying cliffhanger.

[00:46:15] By the way I listened to all your podcasts you guys did on the Silo series and thought it was by far the best to most comprehensive discussion of the three major podcasts I listened to in that series.

[00:46:25] Oh thank you very much.

[00:46:27] Oh thank you Rick that's very sweet of you.

[00:46:29] He said I especially liked how you, Alicia, kept your knowledge of the books close to the vest and didn't reveal what you knew about the various spoilers in the story such as the true nature of Bernard, the fake display in the helmets etc.

[00:46:39] Yeah I had a lot of fun seeing your thoughts on Bernard without my interference.

[00:46:47] I frankly think Silo was ultimately a much better series than Beacon 23 but I'm still willing to give Beacon another look when it returns in April for season two.

[00:46:55] See now that's interesting because if you'd asked me that question after the first three episodes of Beacon 23 I think I would have to agree.

[00:47:06] I think Beacon 23 takes a bit longer to get going than Silo but by the back three episodes I would say they're on about, yeah I would say they're on par with each other really.

[00:47:19] So yeah I think maybe Beacon 23 takes a little longer to get going.

[00:47:24] Yeah and I think they are fundamentally different shows because Beacon 23 is, you know Silo of course is also a lot about society and psychology and internal things like that but there's also a good amount of action in there.

[00:47:41] And it's also clear they got a much bigger budget.

[00:47:44] And this one really is kind of, I think people might expect it to be more of an action show but it's really more of an internal show.

[00:47:53] I think that we might even see, I don't know how much action we'll see in the second half, we'll see.

[00:48:01] I think it's going to be, they're describing season two as a psychological thriller.

[00:48:07] Okay that's interesting.

[00:48:08] Yeah.

[00:48:10] Anyway, Rick wraps up.

[00:48:12] Thank you for doing such a great job on your reviews and I look forward to the podcast. Take care.

[00:48:17] Thank you, Rick.

[00:48:19] We also heard from Stu very recently who said, just listen to the season wrap up of Beacon 23.

[00:48:25] Thanks for your expressions of support.

[00:48:27] Give Luke my thanks.

[00:48:29] Scanning eagerly to see when and where Beacon 23 will appear in the UK.

[00:48:33] We'll see if I can get a rewatching before season two.

[00:48:35] Lots of threads to pick up on from the finale.

[00:48:39] Definitely some focus on transhumanism, especially as Aster is now non-corporeal.

[00:48:45] Let's see if there is an interaction between her and the AIs and if they lean into the difference.

[00:48:51] Yeah that's a good question.

[00:48:53] Will the AI, like will Harmony be able to see her?

[00:48:57] Yeah that is, that is a really interesting question.

[00:49:01] And given the amount of time that Harmony and Aster spent together and like the endowed friendship bond between them,

[00:49:12] I think there's more chance of Harmony being able to see Aster than Bart being able to see the anomaly.

[00:49:19] For example, simply because like I said, there's a relationship there, Bart and A-Lith don't have with...

[00:49:30] Although Bart did have that relationship with Rhee Avalon, the first doctor who set him up and she interviewed him into the artifact as well.

[00:49:41] That's true.

[00:49:43] What if Bart were somehow in the artifact now?

[00:49:45] Oh I really hope that's true. I really really hope that's true.

[00:49:49] I really really hope he's okay and Solomon is like burning in the hottest corner of hell frankly.

[00:49:54] Or at least like yes some sort of backup for Bart.

[00:49:57] I don't know there was definitely not a mention of him in the trailer so but of course they wouldn't give that away.

[00:50:04] Yeah they wouldn't do that.

[00:50:06] And so Stu continued, why is it AI can't detect the artifacts?

[00:50:10] Yeah so this is a question that definitely I think might be at the center of the season.

[00:50:16] And yeah Stu concludes, good bumper episode of the pod and it was good to hear you and Luke bantering away in Beacon 23.

[00:50:23] Keep on, keep it on.

[00:50:25] And yeah we're glad to be back bantering about Beacon 23 as well.

[00:50:29] Yep.

[00:50:31] So yeah we have a new trailer that came out a couple of weeks ago in addition to the teaser that came out at the end of season one.

[00:50:39] So you'll find links to both of those in the show notes.

[00:50:43] Most of the teaser is pretty much sucked up into the trailer so we're going to be talking about that trailer right now.

[00:50:49] Now yeah Luke no sign of fiddle and faddle in this trailer but no sign of Keir either so.

[00:50:56] Yeah it's odd.

[00:50:58] I think I mean we've got to deal with the fallouts of him killing Aster of course I've almost said Lena.

[00:51:03] Yeah I mean if I wouldn't give Keir very good odds for survival because if Haylen doesn't kill him fiddle and faddle probably will.

[00:51:13] So I think he's going to be would be dispatched in relatively short order.

[00:51:17] The thing that I found interesting is the beacon itself looks in pretty ropey condition.

[00:51:25] Right.

[00:51:26] Now there is no now there's no AI to run the automated systems like it looks to me like the beacon itself is starting to starting to degrade is starting to.

[00:51:38] It's just starting to break down so I thought maybe one of one of the sort of issues they can look at in the early episodes is how does the beacon actually run without Bart without AI to to manage it because there are there are shots in that trailer where the beacon is going to break down.

[00:51:56] The beacon is looking distinctly back in the room down.

[00:52:00] Yeah and what point is that just from Bart's meltdown or is that from all the incursions of the different people we see coming we'll talk about.

[00:52:07] Yeah.

[00:52:09] And by the way I looked up on IMDb and well first of all we know IMDb is not always right because it says that there are nine episodes and I'm pretty sure that there are eight episodes but it does have fiddle and faddle listed for the first episode.

[00:52:26] I'm not sure if it's the first few but I didn't see Kier so I don't know what we're going to see we're going to see and also again Halen wasn't in there and we know that he's coming back.

[00:52:35] Yeah yeah.

[00:52:37] And we seem to be getting a new beacon keeper which is.

[00:52:41] Yeah.

[00:52:43] Or to give in the circumstances.

[00:52:44] Yeah I mean so this is as Huey and I were discussing in the interview Iris you can see from that trailer book readers know she's definitely playing the clear role because as Huey said that's another beacon keeper who shows up halfway through now of again no idea if their stories are going to align.

[00:53:02] But playing this role it's definitely going to be one of the main characters this season you can tell it's Helen Wong who's probably best known for the TV show Glow about the women's world of wrestling on Netflix really good show for anyone who hasn't seen it.

[00:53:16] Luke what do you think of this new IRS do you trust her.

[00:53:18] I don't know if I trust her but I don't know what how she's she's got that like surely QT and I say must have won't be nice I sort of you know notoriously rubbish everything even they must have worked out by now.

[00:53:34] That something is amiss on beacon 23 so right well maybe that's why they sent because she would come from the ISA as a beacon keeper yeah if I understand the show world correctly.

[00:53:44] So it seems it seems kind of odd to just send one person in those circumstances you would think they'd be like sending out some massive like posse to figure out what the hex going on.

[00:53:58] So I don't know we're gonna remember that how you know Helen you know was was initially passing himself off as a beacon keeper when he was.

[00:54:07] So I wonder whether it's a similar is a similar situation yeah well we do see what looks like or at least they cut the trailer together this way to look like harmony is saying to iris that hailing needs iris.

[00:54:22] So harmony seems to trust her but I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing maybe she's from the QT A then.

[00:54:27] Yeah I mean harmony as you sort of find out from the last episode of season one harmony is not incomplete control over actions yeah you know she's sort of she sort of coded to follow a list instructions so I think we have to take everything harmony says at this point with a pinch with a pinch of soul.

[00:54:50] And I wonder as well whether harmony has been like plugged into the the beacon whether she's like having to double up is like performing some of bots functions.

[00:55:05] Because there's one there's one shot at the very end of the trailer it looks like harmony is doing her dissolving thing but it looks painful it looks.

[00:55:16] It looks like it looks like something has gone has gone yeah yeah she's like glitching or bugging out screaming somehow I was wondering could it be a response to Astor's death or is this something else that happened.

[00:55:28] My sort of idea with that is maybe she's having to do Bart's job as well as her own role and that's kind of it's putting too much stress on her on her program on us on her software so she's having like the software equipment the software equivalent of like.

[00:55:47] Overwork and a mental health.

[00:55:50] Episode I wonder I wonder if it would be so taxing on her or if she's so evolved that it would be like just background functions what I don't know but the thing is she the thing is even if she's advanced she's still not programmed to do.

[00:56:07] You still have to learn how to do bots role in addition to being like.

[00:56:14] The personal AI of Haley now so I just wonder whether it's like a programming being stretched.

[00:56:20] To then all about that was what occurred to me when I saw the trailer anyway yeah okay okay.

[00:56:26] Yeah we also see her she's talking about her feelings like a lot of she lists a lot of feelings fear and anxiety and she's listing yeah.

[00:56:37] She's sounding very human so I wonder will we see her develop more toward her humanity or will that be uncovered more and we'll find out she had more of it all along and yeah will she ultimately be a hero or tragic figure.

[00:56:51] And this was the thing in season one towards the end of it she was like really struggling to understand what Bart was going through I mean she was she was sort of sympathetic towards but she couldn't really get a handle on.

[00:57:06] She couldn't really get a handle on why Bart was so upset and she basically she basically did the classic thing you're never supposed to do of telling Bart you know not to get upset.

[00:57:20] We know Bart's human because it doesn't the opposite.

[00:57:25] So yeah I think your watching our money develop is going to be an interesting part of the season.

[00:57:32] We also had Aleph is said that Haley is the only one who can decipher the message so we got to wonder if that is before Iris comes because then yeah obviously and after you know Twitter on Twaddle leave and here whatever happens to work here.

[00:57:50] I'm poor here he killed.

[00:57:52] Yeah I'm going with kicked out the airlock.

[00:57:55] Yeah good chance although I don't know Haley is not really a murderer we've learned.

[00:58:01] It's true.

[00:58:02] Although maybe well and I would think that the spores would not be upset about this development because it gives them what they want they wanted her to merge with him in the first place since she was a child right.

[00:58:13] Yeah.

[00:58:14] But yeah and we do also know speaking of her as a child we have an actress credited as a teenage after this season so that makes me wonder I guess we're gonna get some flashbacks maybe even see another location like that colony men allows for she grew up.

[00:58:29] That would be cool.

[00:58:31] Yeah although I do wonder with that like the description of mental house has been so grim across so many episodes I wonder whether anything you could actually show on screen would actually live up to now.

[00:58:43] Pleasant and grim it's described as being like water tastes like graphene and.

[00:58:49] No it's worse than the place where the grotto.

[00:58:51] Oh yeah no yeah you're right it's worse than the place where the water tastes like.

[00:58:55] Yeah I guess they can do their favorite thing where they make the screen too dark.

[00:59:00] Yeah I'd say Lisa's show hasn't been so guilty of that have they.

[00:59:04] No not so far but yeah I have a fear that if they do show me an allows it's gonna be a permanent shabby.

[00:59:09] Yeah and then we get flashes of a bunch of different potential antagonists so first we have this guy with a bubble helmet who looks like he should be called Ant-Man and he's got like the spanking stick.

[00:59:23] And I gotta say that did look fairly ridiculous.

[00:59:27] He's supposed to inspire fear I don't think so but it says at the same time he's shown so whether or not this is true Iris is saying beacon 23 is under military attacks I guess we're.

[00:59:39] At this point supposed to assume he's from the military like a Lynn said and a Lynn where this no we.

[00:59:50] Yeah maybe will look better in context but yeah I did kind of gotta say I watched the trailer and that didn't make me smoke.

[00:59:58] It feels like too intentional like it's gotta be cuz we also get someone who is also a more anatomically correct the wasp but this person has a gun and we can't see their face so it could be someone we know or know by that point but they also just in general look way more intimidating.

[01:00:18] The gun helps I guess.

[01:00:20] And then do you think by the way the guy with the bubble helmet do you think he's kind of inspired by classic British police uniforms.

[01:00:31] I was thinking judge dread I was thinking yeah yeah I was I was thinking judge dread.

[01:00:37] Yeah I was I was thinking to the second rate judge dread cosplay as.

[01:00:41] Judge dread from wish yeah and so we also got hooded people with painted foreheads they look kind of Coltie who do you think they might be yeah I'm like I was thinking like column elders column priests column.

[01:00:59] They're not wearing the white like here then yeah they're not wearing the white but yeah like yeah column priests column elders column scholars like cuz we're not really.

[01:01:09] This is one of the things I hope they really sort of clear up is the column of the column of religious sect are they is it a full is it religion is it philosophy is.

[01:01:21] Where's the line yeah what is it what is it they actually what is it they actually believe.

[01:01:26] Yeah and we see someone wielding a flamethrower later in the trailer and you just hear from the back so I don't know it could be one of those or could be I saw someone else.

[01:01:38] If you if you go to IMDB and you go to the season episode sorry season two episodes you can see character names for a bunch of these people but yeah since none of these people are from the book.

[01:01:50] I need no no more about this than you do it's just all guessing at this point one interesting moment is at the end.

[01:01:58] We see hail in lying on a beach which I don't know if this is real or hallucination that's a question and there's a voice over it which is either alien or AI.

[01:02:09] And this might actually come from a completely separate scene and they just splice them together yeah but they say you are ready to receive us I feel like that must be the spores.

[01:02:20] Yeah I mean that's that's kind of the obvious conclusion to draw I mean I wonder whether what the spores got to say is going to be positive because this is the thing that annoys me about a list.

[01:02:33] Is he seems to assume that whatever message the artifact is trying to impart is going to be a positive message is going to be something good for humanity or at least good for humanity from his point of view.

[01:02:48] How does he know that what if the spores are you know my line what if the spores what if the spores are the bad guys here as well they seem to critically make the assumption that making contact with the species is going to be a good thing.

[01:03:07] And we've actually we actually no way of knowing we know we're knowing who the spores are what they want or what their interest in humanity is.

[01:03:16] Yeah so how do you think the fact that the season is being built as a psychological thriller how do you think that might shift things versus season one we know there's a new we have Glenn Mazzano and joy Blake so what do you what are the vibes you think that are going to maybe change from what we've already seen.

[01:03:34] I mean like I said a minute ago I think it's sort of interesting that the beacon seems to be physically deteriorating as an environment so I think we could get some some interesting stuff about just making the beacon a liveable environment.

[01:03:52] I think I think obviously Halen's going to be working through even more grief than he was already working through before poor guy.

[01:04:02] I think in terms of being a psychological thriller I think it's working out what what happened to us there is this tail and hallucinating is something real.

[01:04:12] It's going to be working out where harmony is loyal to his life where this new beacon keepers loyalty is like and what a left and the column are trying to actually get out of this whole situation because it's the extent of their motivation is clear but what they're actually hoping to get out of talking to these aliens as artifact like I said a minute ago is really unclear to me.

[01:04:42] So I hope where I hope the season goes I hope they wrap up what the artifact is and why these people are so determined to talk to it.

[01:04:54] Well I think we have the answer to why they're so determined to talk to it which is that this they well I mean just I would be too it's an alien entity I want to know everything.

[01:05:06] But then there seems to be two different groups that have and we need to find out how similar the ideologies of the column and of the you know the Aleph's people the QTA.

[01:05:20] How similar are they in their interest in the artifact what are their hopes for you know are they hoping to unite all of human thinking in this artifact.

[01:05:33] Are they hoping to study it to use it as a model or just to have contact with further life in general.

[01:05:43] Well I mean the column seem to be very clear what they're against they're against AI and they're against like continued human expansion into the universe because the colonies are too far apart and they they fail to offer and it's just not working.

[01:06:01] The system is just not working so they're very clear what they're against.

[01:06:07] I think it's much less clear what they're actually for and like a list motivations are complete.

[01:06:14] I mean we find out what the human the Aleph is based on wanted he wanted to unite human consciousness but that's not the same.

[01:06:25] The AI may be based on a person but that's not to say that their motives or their intended outcome is the same because they actually make it quite clear that this is not the same.

[01:06:36] This is not the same character this is not the same person it's not he certainly thinks he's a different person.

[01:06:43] A different character a different entity but I have to wonder if he's underestimating at all how much still lingers of his prior psyche.

[01:06:53] Yeah I mean I think the one thing we can say is we've got a lot we've got a lot of ground potentially to get through in nine episodes.

[01:07:02] Eight yeah.

[01:07:04] Eight episodes.

[01:07:05] Yeah yeah I like though the vibes are setting up in the trailer we've got this sort of claustrophobia where it feels like Halon's maybe a little bit trapped.

[01:07:15] We see someone swing an axe into a table got a winner of that tail in or one of the potential antagonists.

[01:07:21] But yeah I'm looking forward to it again yeah eight episodes wrapping up the series if you know it sounds like from Hugh Howie that they really planned this two season arc.

[01:07:31] And that it's kind of nice to just know that it will have a conclusion.

[01:07:38] No more cliffhangers this time no more cliffhangers I want to know what's going on.

[01:07:43] Well I think we'll do probably the same coverage that we did last season where we cover the first two episodes and then the batches of three episodes at a time.

[01:07:55] Covered the eight episodes and then also with our we have our Dune coverage plans for the next two episodes.

[01:08:01] And we'll be doing some more coverage on that as well.

[01:08:03] So we'll get you prepped for the HBO prequel series coming likely this summer.

[01:08:08] Now if you want to help us in our mission to analyze all this essential sci-fi then please share this episode with a friend anyone who is interested in this series or you think would be interested in this series.

[01:08:20] It's very helpful if you leave a five star review wherever you're listening because that helps the algorithm tell more people that they might like this podcast as well.

[01:08:31] And we of course want to hear from you directly Luke where can people find you so they can find me at Luke Luke F. Middup on Twitter and the same handle.

[01:08:44] I think you're just Luke Middup.

[01:08:45] I'm just Luke. Yeah sorry I'm just Luke Middup on Twitter and I'm Luke F. Middup on Blue Sky and I'm not calling it X and I will never call it X.

[01:08:55] No screw you Helan.

[01:08:59] So yeah so those are where they can find me.

[01:09:02] I also do another podcast with a couple of friends from university that again we've just we've just started to pick that up so that it could be said we look at British politics international politics and we started to branch out into doing into doing film reviews, little pieces of reviews of art and other stuff.

[01:09:25] So yeah we're starting to branch out a little bit from.

[01:09:28] And we can look forward to one of us.

[01:09:31] We can look forward to one of your co-hosts from there joining us for the doon.

[01:09:35] Yeah my friend will would like to join us for the when we get to the V on the movies part of the doon series.

[01:09:45] Yeah and you can find me at Alicia CB and you can also get in touch with us via email at wool shift dust podcast at gmail.com and of course there's also the wool shift dust book club where you'll find part two of the Hugh Howie interview that you just heard in this episode.

[01:10:07] And also there will be the breakdown of the book shift is coming now that I'm finally back in the editing chair and also I would like to thank our newest silas sins Rebecca G and Tom C.

[01:10:22] Thank you and welcome to the clubhouse we look forward to seeing you at the next meeting hope you brought snacks.

[01:10:27] I was also recently on the House of the Dragon podcast electric bookaloo talking about Sansa the Lannisters in the hound and clash of the kings the second book in the Game of Thrones series.

[01:10:40] So if you're interested in that definitely check that out and also stay tuned Star Wars fans because there's a new podcast announcement coming later this month beginning of May more on that to come soon.

[01:10:52] Now this has been wool shift dust published by the lower hounds produced by me also on the lower hounds network you'll find me popping up on occasional show gun coverage they're doing full episode by episode coverage which we're also talking about on the discord.

[01:11:06] You can find that link in the show notes as well and we also just wrapped up there the Oscar series so talking through all of the nominees actually but especially the top 10 the 10 best picture nominees.

[01:11:21] And yeah they're covering so many more shows there properly Howard is also another podcast soon back with another season of silly movie reviews.

[01:11:30] We have a brand new podcast in the network rings and rituals by our favorite Tolkien scholar Marilyn R. Prichilla joined by another Tolkien scholar and they are going back through the rings of power series one episode at a time.

[01:11:44] Breaking down the rituals that you find there and you know talking about ritual in both Tolkien's world and also the real world.

[01:11:52] And add to that soon there'll be a new fallout podcast coming to the lower hounds network which I'm sure will especially be interesting to silo fans.

[01:12:02] Gotta love that underground life.

[01:12:05] So more info on that soon any final words before we go Luke.

[01:12:09] Now I think that's some of everything nicely it's great to be but the one thing I'll say is it's great to be back.

[01:12:15] Yeah and we'll be back in your ears again soon until then we'll be going to see an AI about an artifact.