The Silo S1 Awards Game Show!

[00:00:00] Okay, David, this is where we're supposed to choose a side. Green or black? John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life. So we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to, like, pick sides and fight and stuff.

[00:00:25] Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod, but we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like the show. The politics. The drama. The lore. It was made for the Lorehounds.

[00:00:36] And since we just finished recapping season one, we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons. And with the Season Pass option and Supercast, listeners can get early ad-free access to

[00:00:47] each weekly scene by scene deep dive, plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in the Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our Dragonfire Hot, but probably positive takes. The Lorehounds House of the Dragon covers is also safe for teen green consumption.

[00:01:03] Side effects may include a deeper understanding of Dragon lore, a hardened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book fire and blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning. Hi. A quick word before we start.

[00:01:16] This podcast discussion of the TV show Silo is being released in the spirit of support for the striking WGA and SAG-AFTRA unions based on guidance from their members that promotion of their work helps them gain bargaining power in their negotiations.

[00:01:30] Stay tuned toward the end of the episode for a deeper discussion of the strike recorded not long after the SAG-AFTRA announcement. Welcome to a special bonus edition of Wool Shift Dust. It's the first and last ever Wool Shift Dust Lorehounds podcast Silo Season 1 Awards Game Show. Hi everybody.

[00:02:20] Luke, the Lorehounds and I are here to wrap up our Silo Season 1 thoughts in the form of some seriously silly awards. As always, I'll be here repping the book readers and my co-host Luke repping

[00:02:30] the non-book readers expects full spoilers for the first season of Silo and Apple TV Plus and spoilers from the equivalent source material about half the book Wool by Hugh Howie. But we won't be spoiling anything that happens after episode 10's jaw-dropping cliffhanger.

[00:02:46] Anyone looking for those spoilers should stick around until the end of this podcast for more information about the new Silo Series book club. Luke, are you ready to say goodbye to our Season 1 coverage with the most meaningless award show ever to get thrown at Apple TV Plus?

[00:03:00] I am really ready for this. Although, let's just say I have no idea that this was going to be done in the form of an award show. Surprise. You didn't have to prepare anything. I told you one question that's going to ask you. Yeah.

[00:03:16] And yeah, I'm also excited to welcome back David and John from the Lorehounds, picking back up where we left off in our mid-season bonus crossover. John, you have since read all the books. Has that affected your thoughts about Season 1 at all?

[00:03:29] Well, I was shocked to find out that it was all a dream in the end and that they were all dead on the island the whole time. Yeah, I actually think that it did illuminate some things about some of the characters

[00:03:46] in the show, but I ended up liking the show better than the first half of Wooll. I think that I just think that Hugh Howie and I think he alluded to this in your interview with him.

[00:03:57] He was not really sure where he was going with it at first, and you can kind of tell that, whereas this show cements Juliette as a main character right away, and it gives you stakes right away.

[00:04:09] And it tells the stories of Holston and Johns and Marnes just very well, but very contained, sort of like the Bill episode of The Last of Us. And yeah, so I just think that the show because of hindsight advantages was able to tell a tighter story.

[00:04:31] Yeah, no, that's fair. That's fair. And David, you're with Luke in the non-readers camp. How surprised were you by that finale? I thought the reveal was really great. I got a great kick out of it. I really enjoyed it.

[00:04:47] I thought that the way that they set up the season so that we got a payoff, but then it left us with a huge amount of mystery at the end was perfect. The visual really punched right into that feeling of, oh, my Lord, what is going on?

[00:05:08] I do want to claim a few internet points. I think I posted this on our Discord channel early on in the season that I thought the interview finder seemed funny. There was something about it. And I remember when they had the green screen.

[00:05:25] Well, I think everybody calls it the green screen. But when there's that moment where the viewfinder in one of the early episodes resets and we see a green flash for a second, which is interesting because it's not green out there. So what's up with that?

[00:05:40] But anyway, there was something that triggered me thinking that, oh, hey, this looks like the inner visor thing. And so I called out that I think the visor was lying as well. So OK, yeah. Yeah, about the green flash, Hugh, how he kind of responded that he doesn't

[00:05:57] necessarily see it's not in the book like that. He doesn't necessarily see the logic in it, but that he thought of it when he talked about a green flash, he thought it would be maybe like what you see when there's a flash of technology

[00:06:10] and you get that green screen behind it with the code. That's what he was picturing more. And yeah. So I mean, it could be. Yeah, I can hit candidate as a piece of digital artifact, something in the buffer or, you know, whatever.

[00:06:23] But I loved the reveal and my internet points are down on the fact that the number 18 key that what's his name? Bernard had. I wonder if there is silo number 18. That's my current theory. OK. And there is, by the way, another theory about why the green

[00:06:44] would look like lush greenery outside, but that's something we can't talk about until after we have a little more information in the show. There's so much that we can't talk about. I know. Yeah. And so we're also joined by Jean, David and my co-host

[00:06:59] from the Laura Hounds MC Universe podcast, currently covering Secret Invasion. Jean, you were almost going to have to miss this today. So I'm glad you could be here. Now, no spoilers about the categories, but did you get a look at them

[00:07:13] before you realized you'd be able to do it? No. I did not look. I did not look. When I realized Mother Nature was going to step in, I said, OK, I'm not going to sneak peak and I'm going to be totally surprised by the categories.

[00:07:28] So yeah, just like a non-book reader, I am a non-category reader. OK. All right. Yeah, because we've got a couple of dynamics going on here. So two of us have read the books, John and I, and the other three have not.

[00:07:41] And so then I guess I'm the only one who knows the awards questions and everyone else doesn't. This should be interesting. Now, before we get into the game, I just wanted to check in with everyone on where we are on the season overall.

[00:07:53] Now, John, sticking with you, it's been so fun to watch your enthusiasm for silo as a season unfolded. At what point do you think the show really had you? I like the first episode one. Oh, are you are you doing? Oh, man, we finally did it.

[00:08:08] We finally did it. Leave it in. We predicted that this would happen. So from the first episode I was in. OK, yeah, they locked me in the very first episode. I thoroughly enjoyed this this season. I really enjoyed this story. There's really nothing that I will quibble with

[00:08:35] as far as what I've watched over the 10 episodes. I've yeah, I'm immersed in the story. And before season two, I will be a book reader. OK, yeah. And I guess you were happy with the finale then? The finale just, yeah, the I'm so stoked

[00:08:55] and interested into what happens next. Like the clues that they gave us the visual, like David said at that final shot was like, oh, OK, this is going someplace that I'm really, really interested in and going to. So yeah, the finale knocked everything

[00:09:15] that I wanted out of a finale and left me wanting a lot more. OK, cool. And David, what were some of the characters moments and overall themes from season one that stood out to you the most? I really enjoyed Walker's story,

[00:09:31] the idea that she is down there at the bottom of the silo and not leaving and just staying locked in. I thought the layering of the political control systems was interesting, that there's a civil administration that's being backed up by a secret governance administration.

[00:09:53] I like that as I, oh, well, you know, you've got raiders and judicial and sheriffs. Well, you've got to have somebody just keeping the daily peace. Just talking about, oh, you know, somebody kicked over my plant stand and I need reparations for that.

[00:10:10] OK, well, who's going to do that? The sheriffs are going to do that. So I enjoyed the fact that Hugh Howie was able to think about and play out different political structures and different political methodologies of how does a society manage itself?

[00:10:27] One thought I had was about the raiders. If I were a raider, I wouldn't want anybody to know what my job was. I would want some sort of cover job because those people are jerks. I'm going to say it in a nice way.

[00:10:41] I mean, it seems like they're all friends with each other, right? Like they just very they must have a close society. Yeah, they must have like nice housing together or something. They get a ploy, yeah, company housing. It's like it's like what's that show,

[00:10:53] Severance, where everybody's got a company house. Right, exactly. Yeah, and John. Good luck. You obviously like the show enough to go out and read the books. So you knew who even started with the books before the finale.

[00:11:12] So what do you think drew you in and made you want to do that? I hate not knowing what's coming next, as you can probably tell by the whole structure of the Lorehounds, which usually ends up me being the book reader,

[00:11:23] even if I wasn't to begin with because I cannot. I have no I know I have no patience really for to let this plot unfold. And you said something to me early that I said, you know, it got spoiled for me because I was on the Wikipedia

[00:11:37] and I went I went too far. You know when that happens, you go too far on Wikipedia. It was spoiled for me that Holston was going to see green outside. OK. And I was like, yeah, this was already spilled for me.

[00:11:48] So I already know what's going on outside. And you said to me, well, that's not the big reveal. Like you don't don't worry, that'll be fine. Basically. And I think that that's a great way to put it

[00:12:02] because this is one of the best ways to do a twist, which is it takes the first twist, the first reveal and turns it on its head and sort of recontextualizes it. Right. And I think when I when I found out

[00:12:17] I that that I think I also got spoiled on what really was going on outside. I was like, oh, that's really interesting that it's actually a fake conspiracy to hide the real conspiracy, I guess. And that's what drew me in is this like layered mystery

[00:12:33] where I can't tell who is telling the truth, who is lying, who is who's really in charge really. And I just needed to know. I needed to know as soon as possible. And so I read all the books.

[00:12:45] And Luke, we've obviously talked a lot about your thoughts in the season, but setting up the next series we're going to host starting in August. What are some similarities you see between Silo and Dune so far? Well, I mean, I think that there are far more differences

[00:13:00] than there are similarities between them. Yeah, just just because Silo always Silo is set in a parallel universe. I always took Dune being set in our universe just a long, long, long way in the future. And I think that makes a difference. Wait, can I ask a question?

[00:13:22] Why is Silo set in a parallel universe? Because they have kind of the the all the tech looks kind of like what you would get in our world, but not quite. OK, so I've always took that that it was a parallel universe

[00:13:38] or a branch somewhere because everything is similar enough that it looks right, but it's different enough that it comes from somewhere else. Like the whole thing with the way the computer drive looks and the way the computers look and like the fact that they have

[00:13:54] like sound and visuals on on CCTV and stuff like that. So I mean, I very well could be wrong about that. OK, but what are the other differences or similarities you see? So I think the big similarity is that both stories are as interested

[00:14:15] in building out the broader world, the broader universe. Then then they are as interested in that as they are in the characters. So Arrakis is a character in Dune. The silo, the actual physicality of the silo is a character in the show.

[00:14:36] So these aren't just environments where the plot happens or where the characters interact. They are fundamental characters and fundamental to the story. All right, Alisha, do you mind if I jump in on a comment? To please. Oh, yes.

[00:14:56] Yeah, by the way, David has read all the books like what do you say? Like five or six times the Dune books. Yeah, yeah, all all six books, all the core six original books that were written by Herbert. I haven't read any of the additional materials.

[00:15:08] And we were can I plug the properly Howard episode? So one of our affiliate podcasts in our network that this show is on and our show, we have properly Howard film review, which is Maester Anthony and his buddy Steve Osborn.

[00:15:26] Anthony is a academic and Steve is a stand up comic and they do film reviews and it's a lot of fun. And we just got to go on their show for a Dune 2021 Villeneuve review. And that should be out, I think.

[00:15:42] I don't remember in August, I think is when that's going to be out. Anyway, what I wanted to say was on another track, we're just starting up foundation season two and we're doing full coverage of that.

[00:15:55] And I think that there's a lot more conversation between foundation and Dune. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And there's a lot of interesting things there. Well, they're both kind of quote unquote impossible to adapt that's very difficult.

[00:16:11] Yeah, I will see your foundation and raise you a wheel of time on the influence of Dune. Now that I've seen Dune, I think that wheel of time is just like Dune in a fantasy world in a lot of ways. Get ready for the IEEL.

[00:16:26] Yeah. OK. You're going to love it. All right. That's because this season they're coming. So yeah, you are. You're going to have a great time. And they've shown previews of it and it looks perfect. But yeah, you'll definitely see the Dune. Yes, Luke.

[00:16:40] Just to get back to Silo for a second. So this last week I've been away for work. So I've been staying in a Premier Inn, which is like a cruddy chain motel in the UK. And I thought I'd do some prep for this podcast.

[00:16:56] So I've been rewatching like the first four episodes of Silo on my phone, you know, with Chonky. So basically the worst possible format to watch anything. And it still holds up. I mean, I thought that was like obviously I've enjoyed the series

[00:17:16] and I've noted the quality in all sorts of ways in previous episodes. But the fact that I could watch it on my phone and still enjoy it that really speaks to the quality of the show in terms of acting, in terms of the way it's put together.

[00:17:33] So yeah, the worst possible format imaginable. It still works. It's still engaging. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely I mean, there's a reason why the word of mouth has like really carried. I mean, it's not just helping the show, but Apple TV Plus

[00:17:47] as we talked about in the interview with you, Howie. My mom even got into the show and she is not a big sci-fi buff that she got into it because we're covering. Well, you're covering it and I was talking about it

[00:18:02] and she's actually a subscriber to our show. So she heard about it and then she wanted to check it out. She said, oh, that sounds interesting. And then got totally invested in it. And that really blew me away. That the show of this nature and of this storyline,

[00:18:22] you know, with the heavy sci-fi dystopian. It's not her cup of tea normally. Not her normal genre stuff. But what was interesting to her was the characters and that it was a character story forward. Right. And I think, you know, to backup Luke's point,

[00:18:38] which is it's watchable and all these things and it looks great and all of that. It's also a great show because it has good characters and compelling stories and there are stakes involved and they get us to invest in who these people are.

[00:18:52] And I think so when we back all these things together, yeah, it's a real hit. Yeah, my mom, well, she watched too, but she also she she's one of the people I got to read a wool, you know, back in the day.

[00:19:05] But she's it's been a while since she read it and it was funny as she was watching after certain episodes. She would message me and she'd be like, I really like am questioning my memory. I don't remember like this and that.

[00:19:16] I'm like, no, no, no, none of that's in the books. All right, now that all the players have been identified, let's let the games begin after this quick commercial break. Round one. All right, the awards game begins. Here's how it works in round one.

[00:19:35] I will present everyone with 10 different awards categories with five nominees each. None of you have any prior knowledge of the awards categories or nominees, except me because I made them up. And for each award, I will give five options,

[00:19:48] but feel free to choose an option that's not on the list. The nominees are merely suggestions in this game of silo coated nonsense. Just tell us in a sentence or two why you picked your pick and a winner or possibly more than one winner will be crowned

[00:20:02] and the winner will get nothing, but I respect, but that should be worthy enough for anyone. Round two will be a rapid fire round in two parts, one for book readers, one for the show only guys. Don't worry, no spoilers.

[00:20:16] And we'll talk more about that after round one. Okay, is everybody ready? Go on. Yes. As ever as I will be having. All right, I'm just gonna read out the category, the five nominees and then just randomly call on you one at a time to make your pick.

[00:20:34] I'm starting broad for the first category, starting with best episode. And I've nominated five. Like I said, feel free to throw out another one if you prefer. So my nominees are A, episode one, Freedom Day, Allison's story, B, episode three, Machines Generator Repair, C, episode six,

[00:20:59] The Relic, George's Secrets, D, episode eight, Hannah, Father, Daughter Reconciliation and Martha Zagoraphobia and E, episode 10, Outside the Finale. All right, starting with co-host Luke. I am gonna go for episode one. Simply on the basis that it is so easy

[00:21:24] to for a show to lose me at the pilot, like a show has to grab me in that first episode or I walk. I don't watch three episodes in to see how it goes. So that pilot was incredibly effective in setting up the world of the silo

[00:21:42] and setting up the rules and giving you just enough information, giving you just enough of a taste of what's going on to fire curiosity and your imagination. And David E. Yellowo and Rashida Jones deserve like some award for best one episode performances because they had so little time

[00:22:05] to nail the characters of Holston and Allison. Both of them absolutely nailed it to the wall. I know I said this in previous episodes, but I really want Holston and Allison, the spin-off series. I don't care what they're doing, they don't have to be doing anything in particular.

[00:22:26] I just wanna spend more time with these two people. Okay. I've seen them do it a lot, but I... Yeah, there's a lot of things being done, yeah. And okay, John, what's your pick for this category? Ooh, it is tough. It is tough.

[00:22:44] Well, as you were listening to them, I was like, how do I pick one of these? It's like picking your favorite child. I know. My child is running up right now. Do you wanna be my favorite? I guess I'm gonna say episode 10.

[00:22:58] I'm gonna do it because it's the reveal. You know, how do you match that? It takes the previous reveals and it turns it on its head in a way that is so satisfying. And like you said, David, it leaves you with more questions than answers.

[00:23:14] And that is something that is very hard to do in a show, especially in the Reddit era where everyone is speculating every week. And I loved it. Okay. And John, what is your pick? Did we have episode three? Yeah, that was on there. That was a choice.

[00:23:32] I mean, you could add it otherwise, but it's there. Yeah, I'm going with episode three. Okay. Machines for me. I just loved the scene when, who was at Ruth and Sam who got on their backpacks and they started going down to the lower levels. Right.

[00:23:52] And I was saying to myself, oh man, they actually have to walk. Like how long does it take to get there? And just, yeah, just like that, we meet Juliet's dad in that episode as well. Right. And when she gets the badge and turns it over

[00:24:11] and sees the word truth, to me I was just like, okay, what was hosting up to at that point? What's the truth that he's trying to get her specifically to understand and to see? Yeah. Which I guess was the reason of the following episodes,

[00:24:36] her tracking down this truth. So I really, for me, episode three was the one that made me, I enjoyed it from the very beginning. Right, okay. But this one was the one that hooked me. All right. That really got me peak, my interest peak

[00:24:54] because now I wanted to know how she was going to find this truth and what this truth was. Right. All right. And David? Do you have a category coming up later for least favorite? No, feel free to throw it on the table now. All right, well, machines, sorry,

[00:25:11] I'm going to be... Easily released. Oh my gosh. So maybe that gets a cancellation note. It's because of the way that they did the whole fan blade thing. I lost my verisimilitude in that. And it out. They won me back. I loved the fan blade.

[00:25:29] I loved the fan blade. Didn't work for me. It worked for me. But my favorite is going to be the Relics episode where we get a lot more interesting story stuff going on as well as starting to give us some more mystery

[00:25:48] that really is a real head scratcher stuff and really drives characters in a way. But we also get, was it George that got IT Guide Out of Basement? That's the episode I believe where we learn about the fact that he has been in love before.

[00:26:06] Was it other people? We meet Regina. Yeah, and Julia feels a little bit like she's been played. And I thought that set up and then the resolution of that was a really nice part of the show that I wasn't expecting. So that episode did a lot of duty

[00:26:28] to lock in some twists and turns for us in the character realm, as well as the mystery realm. Right, yeah, that's also my pick by the way. I just, I thought the writing was just so perfectly balanced between, yeah, just exploring the character development and the directing also

[00:26:50] between the connection with George and Juliet and the way you questioned everything within the same episode and there was also just like perfectly balanced little bits of humor sprinkled in. I just thought that episode was perfection. So winner is episode six, The Relic. Gets the first wooly.

[00:27:15] What's the statue? A little crumpled rag? Yeah. A bronze drag? It just dropped in front of a microphone. Yeah. Okay. And now for the second category, best blink and you'll miss some character and your options are A, Sandy, the assistant from the Sheriff's Office who moved to 105,

[00:27:38] B, Camille Sims, C, Regina the X, D, Danny from IT, E, Diego Obvious. And of course as always you can add your own nominees. Let's start this time with Jean. Sandy. Sandy, all right. Yeah, hands down Sandy. I miss Sandy. She was spicy. I want her back.

[00:28:00] I'm hoping to see her again. I think I don't know, blanking on the actress who plays her but she, I thought she was great. I loved everything about her distrust. I loved everything about her wanting to protect her former colleague, coworker, whatever you want to call them.

[00:28:29] But yeah, Sandy hands down. She needs to come back. I think her name is Chippochung. Yes, that's good. Thank you. Thank you. And David, what's your pick? Oh boy, it's between the IT or no, the hacker dude who jacked the cameras

[00:28:48] and I was gonna say probably Sandy as well but I'll go with the hacker dude. With Danny, okay. Yeah, the fact that you have within the silo culture, a hacker community is very cool and or maybe who is the guy, who is the other illegal artifacts trader?

[00:29:11] Oh, Patrick Kennedy. I don't know, does he qualify as Blinken, you'll miss him? Yeah, he was in it a little bit more, wasn't he? Yeah. Yeah, no, he's not Blinken, you'll miss it. He's like the best comedy relief. Him and Diego obvious,

[00:29:26] like the best comedy relief in the world. But Diego obvious is on the list. All right, see you guys. I should look up the actor here who plays Patrick because he's been in some other stuff, Rick Gomez. Yeah. I don't reckon,

[00:29:39] I know that I've seen him in other things and I can't remember. Yeah, I looked him up and I wasn't really familiar but I mean it's somebody who now I wanna go watch his other stuff because he just nailed it.

[00:29:49] But I love the fact that there is a hacker culture here and that IT for as all knowing as they are, there are folks who are getting around systems and using systems and there's an illegal economy here. I think that's always an important thing.

[00:30:09] There's always going to be black market and counter authoritarian forces, activities, people in any culture. One of the things I really liked about Battlestar Galactica, the original end in the second was that there is a black market that goes on among these ships

[00:30:26] and there is illegal trade going on. And so to get a glimpse of that, I knew it was around but to actually see it embodied was perfect. Yeah. All right, so wait, was Danny then your final vote? The IT kid, yeah. Yeah. The hacker kid, yeah. Okay.

[00:30:40] All right, yeah. Once again, I agree with you. It was really close call between him and Camille. I know too so far. I know. It was really close call between him and Camille but I don't know, I just, and I think maybe it's cause he's sort of like

[00:30:51] the Scotty replacement, this character from the books and maybe I just am naturally inclined to have a soft spot for him. I don't know. Luke, what about you? I like Camille. I like Shirley but I'm going to go for Down Deep Deputy Hank. Okay.

[00:31:09] A, because I've had fun spending 10 weeks trying to teach you how to pronounce Billy Possum's name. And because I think one of the things I'm hoping to get out of season two is that we spend much more time with Shirley Knox and Hank in Down Deep.

[00:31:32] I think there is a lot more you can do with that community, particularly in the context of where season one left off so I think in terms of minor characters that could become middling characters, I would say him and Shirley

[00:31:53] would be like my two top bets going forward. Okay. And maybe Camille as well actually. Well, I've got an awards category for you later. John, what's your pick? I'm going Danny. I'm adding to the Danny poll and I'll tell you why. Is that he knows his limits

[00:32:10] when he has Bernard searching for him, he knows I can get around this for a while but they're going to be able to figure out where I am. And that is something that you don't see often from a hacker character user.

[00:32:23] They're like, yeah, I can use the flux capacitor to get past the firewall and no one will ever find me. And he's like, yeah, no, I'm good but they got computers that I don't. So we got to move. I really loved that

[00:32:38] in addition to all the things David said that was really the characteristic that stuck out to me. All right. Can I throw in some before you reveal? Sure, sure, sure. Just to add into the... When they see the video image moving, they're blown away.

[00:32:52] They're like, what the F is this? We have no concept of what it is that we're watching here and I loved that adding to the realism as well. Yeah, they're used to eight bit character text stuff but not a actual moving image. That was really, really nicely done.

[00:33:09] It's like seeing a ghost, right? If you're not used to people who are dead ever being animated again, yeah. It's like seeing a ghost. Yeah, and we as the Wolshift, us, Lorehounds community agree with Hugh Howie, the best blink and you'll miss it character is Danny from IT.

[00:33:27] Congratulations, Danny. Okay, now taking it down a notch. Next category is saddest death. And the options are A, Allison, B, Holston, C, Johns, D, Marnes, E, George. And of course, any Trumbull fans feel free to speak up. Now starting with John this time. Oh boy, that's tough.

[00:33:56] I'm gonna say it is Allison. Okay. Because she believed so wholeheartedly that she was going off to live in a free place and it just wasn't true. And because her death and her belief in this caused even Holston to believe her

[00:34:21] and also die thinking that he was going to a better place but then realizing everything was terrible. Right, that's fair. John, what about you? Allison. Allison also, okay. That was heartbreaking. Her whole arc was just, it was tough. Yeah, finding out that they never really,

[00:34:46] she never, they never really had a chance at what they would desperately attempting to do and thinking that once I get out of here there's something so much better waiting for me. And not in the metaphysical sense, but in actuality, something I can reach out and touch

[00:35:10] that is better than what I know. And then having her fall just boop at the tree was just devastating. And wondering what she must have been wondering as she started to go. That was really, and I think it set up a lot of things

[00:35:35] for me and for the rest of the series. Okay, yeah. I think all these deaths are devastating, Allison's also. I'm gonna jump in here for a minute, switch it up and advocate for Mayor Johns because I know she was toward the end of her life

[00:35:54] and so it's not as much like with Allison, you feel the wasted potential. She was happily married and all of that. But with Mayor Johns, she had spent 50 years of her life denying that she was in love with the closest person to her in the world

[00:36:09] and just as they discovered that and opened that up to each other and we're ready to embrace that possibility and that's it, that's the moment. She got so close to happiness and then lost it at the last possible second for reasons that aren't even totally clear

[00:36:28] because it might have even just been completely an accident. Okay, David what about you? Do we know if the rabbit made it out? No. I have theories that the rabbit survived and had me out of it because we're- Okay, all right, so then the rabbit is not eligible.

[00:36:45] We don't know. I've been debating it and I was really swayed by the Allison arguments and I think those are really compelling but I'm going to go with Becker because- Wait, oh Holston, yeah. Holston, yeah, sorry. Because Allison's also Becker. Yeah, yeah, because he is, it's a tragic,

[00:37:12] it's not a, what is it? It's a gift of the magi kind of thing, you know? But it's not that and it's not a Romeo and Juliet either. He's following in her to death and he's using his death to spur some action.

[00:37:31] It might be like a self-imoliation kind of situation and it's for what purpose? He was a competent sheriff. He was on to something about the truth of things and to give his life up for that and to be so impacted by the death of his wife

[00:37:57] and in a way it's a kind of suicide. I just think it's as tragic a waste of any character's potential, I guess I could say. So yeah, as well as I miss the character, I miss the actor because David O'Hello did such a great job

[00:38:18] and he was such an interesting sheriff. And he had a particular way about him in a way in the silo and him with the mayor were a really great team, so yeah, I'm not happy that he's not with us for the rest of the seasons.

[00:38:34] Okay, and Luke, what's your pick? This is a really hard question because if there's one thing this season of silo has nailed it's doing meaningful character death, they've done an awful lot of it. True, that's right true. This is George R. R. Martin levels of bloodbath going on.

[00:38:54] I think I'm gonna have to go with Holston. I think David explained very eloquently all the reasons why it has to be Holston. My reasoning is just much more simple than that. The way O'Hello delivers the line, sorry for all the fuss, it's just,

[00:39:16] just gets me every time. It's just a perfect encapsulation of that character in half a sentence. And also the way he and Mons are throughout that entire episode, these are two guys that deeply respect each other and say that great line,

[00:39:35] you know as much as I love you, you all bastard, I love Alison more, which is just again, the writing of the show is really good. I have the characters say a lot whilst saying very, very little. So I'm gonna go with Holston.

[00:39:53] Okay, well, the Becker's are united in this award as they are united in death. The tie for winners of saddest death are Alison and Holston Becker. Rather than clapping should we boohooing? Should we boohooing? Boohoo. All right, but now we get back to the laughing.

[00:40:15] Next category is biggest comedy queen and our nominees are A, Marns, B, Patrick Kennedy, C, Juliette, D, Danny from IT, E, Billings. Jean, starting with you. Can I take a pass? Can I pass the baton? Cause I gotta think about this. All right, all right.

[00:40:37] All right, Luke, let's go to you. Okay, I'm gonna go off list. I'm gonna say Bernard for one scene and one scene only. Everybody turn round, close your eyes, put your hands over your ears. Every time I've watched that, I've had to stop. That was good.

[00:40:53] Cause it made me laugh. It's just like in the middle of this really dark, really serious show, you just have that one moment of utter absurdity and it's brilliant. You too, Robert. Yeah, you too, oh man. Oh, that just makes me flinch. Yeah, oh man.

[00:41:11] Yeah, it reminds me of, it gives me the same vibe as, you know in Oh, He's Sunny in Philadelphia when Charlie's uncle has his fake hands fly off. He goes, nobody look, nobody look. He just shouts it over and over again. Same vibe, same vibe.

[00:41:27] All right, and what about you, John? What's your pick for Comedy Queen? Comedy Queen, I'm gonna say it is when Sims is in the cell and the deputies just don't know what to do with him. Okay, so who are we nominating? Sims or the deputies?

[00:41:45] I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say Sims because just the way that he makes them so uncomfortable, like it's fine guys, get me a cup of coffee. I trouble you for a phone call? It's very funny to me. I don't know, I'm a big fan of like cringe humor

[00:42:07] and that was a very cringy scene of these deputies like, I don't know if I am allowed to do this. All right, and David what's yours? I have a group nomination. Okay. I would like to put forward the entire janitorial video computer staff. Okay.

[00:42:26] They were so cowed by Bernard and they were always being driven forward, like, oh, they couldn't ever quite get on top of what's going on. They clearly have computer skills but not cunning, not secret agency level cunning. And so whenever they were being driven by Robert

[00:42:53] or by Sims or Bernard, it just felt like they were hurting a bunch of hamsters or rabbits into, you know, forward and they were always stumbling over each other and very nervous. And so in a weird way, it gave me a lot of comic levity

[00:43:12] among all of those scenes because the IT room is very serious and they're watching everyone. And here's a bunch of computer operators just going, oh. So the biggest laughs were in the janitor's closet. They were not gaffal laughs but they made me smile. I always cracked a smile.

[00:43:31] I mean, just because we also got Bernard in the janitor's closet, sitting regular of the janitor's closet. Sorry, just before we move on, David, I was thinking as you were speaking, like one of the comedy possibilities for season two is,

[00:43:46] I want the computer techs to form a union. These guys clearly need about a contract. They are clearly being bullied at work by Bernard and Sims. So I think Diego obvious clearly should be the union rat. There should be a new contract.

[00:44:02] There should be a, they should be doing seminars. Take it even a step further is the fact that they can't talk about what they do in their real life. So if they're hanging out with friends, family at the bar or whatever, they have to pretend

[00:44:15] to be something that they're not and they disappear for long stretches at a time. So they're under immense pressure and stress. And so absolutely. In terms of labor versus control, they definitely need a better contract. I don't feel bad for them. They know what they're doing.

[00:44:33] I don't feel bad for them. But who do you feel less bad for, Jean-Them or the Raiders? No, they all could go walk outside and clean. Raiders, computer techs, everybody. Walk outside, go clean, all of them. I don't feel that I have, I loathe both groups. All right.

[00:44:52] It's tough being a Raider because you can't tell anybody what you do. You're gonna just expose yourself to retribution. They're all accountants, actually. I mean, that's a thing. It's like they can't all be pretending to be janitors, you know? Right. Even though they're going

[00:45:09] into the janitor's closet to work. Yeah. I have questions. But anyway, yeah. Jean, do you have a pic? Yeah. I'm going off the nominees and I'm going to nominate Sandy. Sandy? Okay. The way she delivers her lines, man. That makes me smile every time

[00:45:34] because she's so quick and sarcastic and a surrogate and I just love it. Everything that she says, she says with a, like there's a hint of, yeah, I know what I'm saying is not nice and so what? Yeah, deal with it. Yeah, and I just, yeah,

[00:45:54] I love the way she delivers her lines and that mean spiritedness that she has when she meets Juliet is something that I can appreciate. I really like it. So she makes me smile when I see her on screen. Okay, it's funny.

[00:46:15] This category, so we got four people who went off book. I'm going to stay on book. I made the nominees, so my pic's clearly in there. I'm going with Patrick Kennedy because just every single time I started to light up when I saw him on screen.

[00:46:28] But that means we've got, it's a five-way tie. So you know what that means? No, I don't know what that means. Absolutely nothing. It means I got to play that sound effect. And our five-way tie is between Bernard, Sims, the janitorial IT staff, Sandy and Patrick Kennedy.

[00:46:52] Well deserved. Well deserved, I have you there. All five. Now the next category is, the one I said was for you, Luke. We've got best in-mechanical ally who is not Juliet. So the nominees are A, Martha, B, Shirley, C, Knox, D, Deputy Hank, E, Coop.

[00:47:16] Luke, who would you pick? Oh, I think this one has got to be relatively easy. It's got to be Martha because for all that the others have contributed in one way or another, Martha is the character that makes the difference between Juliet surviving going outside

[00:47:32] and not surviving going outside with her relationship with Carla and the revelation about the tape and that great line. It doesn't make sense unless it does. So yeah, it has to be Martha. Although like I say, I really hope they make much more of the down deep

[00:47:53] next season because I just love that assortment of characters and I think you could do so much with them. Yeah, agreed, agreed. What about you, David? Sorry, can you repeat the category again? Yeah, so it's best in-mechanical ally who is not Juliet. So we've got Martha, Shirley, Knox,

[00:48:10] Deputy Hank or Cooper, The Shadow. I think Deputy Cooper is a pretty good... Wait, Deputy Hank or Cooper, The Shadow? Oh, I'm sorry, Deputy Hank. Okay. I think he's got a very Kylo Ren vibe, what's an Adam Driver vibe to him. He's got long hair. Billy Pusselthwaite.

[00:48:35] Is that his name? Did I say it? Is that the actor's name? Pusselthwaite. Pusselthwaite. Oh, I know it's got hush puppies with him so I like it. He's a looker for Sheriff's Deputy, he's quite a looker. I don't know whether that's vibes David or just a haircut.

[00:48:54] He's got a very Kylo Ren haircut but I'm not sure it's Kylo Ren vibes. No, not Kylo Ren vibes, definitely not. He's just got Adam Driver looks and he's a big guy and he's sort of soft and dopey and he does everything that I got from him

[00:49:11] is that he has a heart and that he cares and he does his Sheriff's job because he cares and then he's now suddenly trying to navigate complex political waters that are way beyond his scope of experience or understanding. He feels like he's really friends

[00:49:29] with everybody down in the down deep and that they're all a pretty self-supporting community and they don't really need him to keep the peace as such so he's there as a representative but I think he is a person. He's somebody who cares and wants to care

[00:49:46] and he found his expression as a Sheriff, as somebody to help society and not be a authoritarian person but as a constable type of person. I guess I'm trying to find the right descriptor for somebody who's been given a badge and authority

[00:50:04] but is not using it in an authoritarian type of way. So yeah, he's just a sweet fellow I think. Okay and John, who's your pick? It's Martha. That's the correct answer everyone. What are we doing here? What are we doing here? Why are we debating this?

[00:50:22] She's great choice to make her a woman in the show. She was a man in the book. I know Hugh Howie commented on that in your interview. It does work better I think. Also almost unrecognizable from the other big characters she's played this year.

[00:50:37] Rebecca's mom in Ted Lasso and the Roy's mom in Succession. Yeah, she had a busy year. Yeah but like what unique characters all three of them? Great actor, really love the character 10 out of 10. Okay and John? Yeah I'm gonna have to agree with Martha.

[00:51:00] I think she's the backbone of support like that Juliet needs and what I think that so many other characters need as well. The fact that she doesn't leave but everyone comes to her speaks to her importance. She doesn't leave but everybody flocks, they all come to her.

[00:51:27] So yeah I think she's- She's the godmother of mechanical. Yeah, yeah and so yeah Martha is really at the top of the list. Yeah I'm gonna go with Martha too for all the aforementioned reasons and just also for, we saw her be a leader even despite her

[00:51:46] things that were restricting her and then we saw her fight against to overcome these restrictions when it was required of her, when it was needed of her and she did end up being kind of the MVP of the season by giving Juliet a better chance outside.

[00:52:01] So surprising nobody, the winner of the best in mechanical ally who is not Juliet is Martha Walker. That's right. Yay. Yay. And it's the correct answer, good job. Moving on to most essential prop. So the options are A, heat tape, B, the camcorder, C, the PES dispenser,

[00:52:26] D, the Georgia book, E, Juliet's watch. All right, let's start with Jean. I mean it could be, I could go obvious and say the heat tape but I think the book. Okay. I picked the book. I love the moment when, you know we see the book being open

[00:52:50] and the wonder and awe in the faces of the person who is opening the book. Yeah. It's really, it's almost biblical. You know, like a revelation has been given to the book holder to go spread this news to the people, you know from on high.

[00:53:14] It was, I like, I think it's the book. Yeah there's some good acting. Yeah. There's some people like whoa, trees. Yeah, yeah. And it made me think of, you know how we often and our universe take these things for granted.

[00:53:32] Right, and to see the wonder and the awe that it inspires and people who have never seen these things before was really, was special for me. So I go with the book. Okay. And David, what's your pick? Can I nominate the key, the server room key?

[00:53:51] Does that fit within the category? Mm-hmm. Yep, definitely. I think it was a great setup for it. We see it at the beginning and then they use it at the end and something about the device itself really appealed to me is this cool little piece of tech.

[00:54:07] It also gives me vibes of like missile, silo, secret code, you know, stuff. And then why is it flashing? How is it connected? Does Bluetooth really have that range? And you know in the silo universe, what's going on there? So it really intrigued me and I felt visually,

[00:54:28] it's the key itself and then the numbers on it tell a story but also ask a lot of questions. And so there's a lot packed into a very, very, very tiny little piece of technology. Okay. And John, what's your pick? I need the choices again.

[00:54:49] I can't keep track of all these guys. Okay, okay. Most essential prop, heat tape, the camcorder, the Pez dispenser, the Georgia book, Juliet's watch or David nominated the 18 key fob. Right, okay. The heat tape, I think it's the most consequential. Yeah, I liked how they seated it early.

[00:55:08] I think they could have done a little bit better of a job seating it throughout but this whole idea of she stole the heat tape and I think in the books there's a line that should have been in the show that was like

[00:55:19] it's almost like it was built to fall apart. It was terrible. I stole it, but it didn't really work out for mechanical. That would have really sold it for me in the show but otherwise I thought it was the most consequential prop.

[00:55:31] I'm gonna agree with that sub point, John, that I think they seated it enough throughout the show overall but what was missing was the fact that the heat tape in general, the average heat tape was crap. And maybe it was...

[00:55:47] Well no, it was the regular heat tape was fine. I think it was specifically the IT heat tape that Juliette rerouted to mechanical. That was the crap one because IT is building the suits. Okay, now I feel like I'm got that inverted.

[00:56:06] I thought that the IT tape was better for some reason. All right, I've gotta say, David, I'm with you on that one because in the episode 10 show, Alicia actually read out the section where the heat tape, the section of the book where the heat tape is explained

[00:56:22] and it is explained much better in the book than it is on the show. So yeah, we sort of needed a scene somewhere in the season of them assembling the suit, I think would have... Without like, you didn't need a character to come up

[00:56:39] and say, oh, this heat tape is crap. No, right. You just needed a bit more of a visual steer that the heat tape didn't work. It made sense once you got there, once you worked it out. But it took a little bit of working out.

[00:56:56] Even just to see when they're putting it on, they're having a little trouble getting it to stick. They gotta... Yeah, something like that, yeah, would have been perfect. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm also gonna go for the heat tape, by the way, but I do think,

[00:57:11] yeah, they made it more subtle in the show. Like they didn't even want to... They didn't even make it obvious that IT is the one who builds the suits from the beginning. So I can see they were trying to hide it a bit better,

[00:57:21] but I think they hid it too well for a lot of people. I was just listening to... Well, I listened to your Hugh Howey interview, and then I was listening back to some interviews with David S. Goyer, who's the showrunner for Foundation

[00:57:32] since we're spinning up on that show. And it's interesting to listen to showrunners or key creatives talk about the decisions that get made for these kinds of things. And in some cases, if they're too subtle, people are oblivious and miss it,

[00:57:47] or they take it and make it mean of something completely off base, or what the showrunners thought was a very subtle hint to it was for audience viewers, so on the nose and so obvious and so glaring. So it's a really fine line to be able to

[00:58:05] seed something into a show, make it important so that when the reveal does happen, it lands just right. And I think that's probably one of these cases where they were, how do we do it without blowing ourselves too soon in the storyline? Yeah. Phrasing David, phrasing.

[00:58:23] I know, Luke, what's your pick for the most essential prop? I am gonna go with the heat tape as the most essential prop, but if I could have an honorable mention for the PEZ dispenser, because this has set me off on a journey

[00:58:41] of personal growth, finding out what the hell PEZ is. That's right, you didn't. Because as a Brit I've heard it mentioned in films and TV shows, but age is that, I mean the first clue what it is beyond it's probably some sort of sweet.

[00:59:00] So this is the first show that has actually shown me what PEZ is and what a PEZ dispenser is. And I have to say I'm a little bit disappointed. They always were, they were the promise of a PEZ dispenser, as I'm speaking as a child

[00:59:16] who had several of these. They were always, the promise was always greater than the delivery. You got the thing, you loaded it up, you moved the head and then you were like, okay, so what? You know, it's a- It's not like they tasted good.

[00:59:31] It wasn't like a great candy. No, and it's a tiny little candy. It's sugar, yeah. So yeah, it's just a hardened sugar encapsulation. But it was fun. I think Luke, when you said that on the podcast, I immediately went out and started scrounging for PEZ stuff

[00:59:48] and I learned a bunch, even though I have been a beneficiary of PEZ all my life. Yeah, and you shared that video and I learned a bunch. So yeah. So yeah, this has been an educational experience. Yeah, who knew we would learn so much about PEZ?

[01:00:02] That's the great thing about being a podcaster is you just go down these rabbit holes to figure out, you know, all of these obscure weird things. I did hear though, somebody say that they sell PEZ at Tesco. So I don't know if you wanna try it yourself.

[01:00:17] You probably get a crate of them, a gross. Not that my local Tesco's they don't, because I love it. You checked it. You already looked. Yeah, I looked. Where I live now, there is like a proper American sweet shop that's just opened.

[01:00:30] So next time I'm walking down that way, I'm gonna see if they've got PEZ. Fingers crossed. But yeah, I would also give the PEZ's fence or an honorable mention, but the winner of most essential prop goes to the heat tape. Yeah. Obvious. Yeah. What what sticky sound.

[01:00:52] All right, next up we have best non-stair based set. The options are A, the cornfield, B, the orchard, C, the generator room, D, Martha's workshop, E, Judge Meadows apartment with all of those fun relics. Jean, do you have a pick for best non-stair based set? Cornfield. Cornfield? Okay.

[01:01:16] Cornfield. All right, just dramatic. That looks cool. Yeah, it looked cool. Yeah. And there was a bunny. Yeah, there was a bunny. And presumably with many bunnies. Right, and then her running through the corn stalks and it felt like I hear we're in this very different world,

[01:01:37] but in a very familiar place. So, yeah, the cornfield for me. Okay, and John? Best set. Can I say mechanical? Yeah, I said the generator room. Right, yes, yes, okay. Yes, I think the generator room, that was the coolest one. Unlike David, I enjoyed the fan banging.

[01:02:02] I thought that was very cool. It reminded me of, there's a scene in one of the Lord of the Rings things, or maybe it's in the Hobbit, where everyone's just like taking turns with a hammer. And I loved that scene, and this just reminded me of it.

[01:02:17] They're just, you know, whacking it and trying to get it back into shape. And the stress of it really got to me. Like I was really feeling the tension. And that whole room, and it's not just in that very tense moment,

[01:02:29] that whole room felt like it was constantly like about to boil over. You know? I really, really liked that environment in the show. Yeah, it looked very hot in there for sure. And Luke, what about you? I'm gonna go with Judge Meadows' apartment,

[01:02:46] because I thought that set played a big role in making that scene as impactful as it was, because the way that set was constructed, you could tell this was a rich person in the side of it. This is a wealthy person in the side of it.

[01:03:05] But also the fact that it was sort of slightly unkempt and not really looked after, I think gave you quite a bit of insight into the problems that Judge Meadows was having and their personal life. And also, I just like the same with George Estash.

[01:03:22] I liked the randomness of the relics. Right. Like there was an Etch-a-Sketch, it was a Frisbee. Trying to think what else? Yeah, there's a Slinky. Yeah, so it's just this collection of toys and general crud that's just become valuable. As everything does, it's become valuable

[01:03:47] out of being old. Right. And we talked about this in the pod at the time, but I really wanna know, does Judge Meadows play with the Etch-a-Sketch? Yeah. I just like a scene somewhere in season two of her just doodling with the Etch-a-Sketch

[01:04:04] because you've got a thing with knobs on. Surely you are curious enough at some point to turn one of those knobs and see what happens. Right. And then, yeah, it's easy to figure out. Yeah, it'd be easy enough to work out what was going on.

[01:04:17] Yeah, I'm gonna piggyback on Judge Meadows' apartment too. I just think that would must have been one of the most fun sets for the production designers to set and just all of those relics and stuff. It was a great scene to pick apart. David, what about you?

[01:04:33] I have to go with I think Martha's workshop, but I've got two other things I wanna mention. First, we need a shout out for the Barbican Bevel. Anybody who's a design geek or has affinities in that direction, you gotta love the completeness of design

[01:04:52] that they went through to make sure windows and stairways, everything doors all had that particular design flourish. And having been around the Barbican a number of times, I love that place. It's so weird. It's in the middle of the city of London

[01:05:08] and suddenly you're in this futuristic weird concrete place. I just think it's cool as hell for a lot of weird reasons. So I love the Barbican Bevel. Were the stairs in contention? No, I said accept the stairs. Oh, you did say accept the stairs.

[01:05:23] Okay, so then I definitely am going through, going for Martha's workshop. I think to stock that room and make it feel like it's supposed to feel this woman who's never left this place for however many years and it to be full of tech and useful stuff

[01:05:43] and somebody who has slight, oh, I need tendencies of I need that screw. Or maybe I shouldn't throw that out. I totally vibe with that. And from a design standpoint, from the production designers to find all the right tech,

[01:06:02] to put it in there, to put it in the right places, to make it feel organic, but everything in there was placed for a reason. So there's a very intentional process to get that room to look the way it does.

[01:06:16] But to then have the effect that it looks organic, really, really great job. So absolutely my favorite. Okay, all right. Then that means we have a winner and it's Judge Meadows' apartment and I don't know what sound you make to a pardon apartment.

[01:06:31] I wish I was slinky, I guess. All right, moving on to category number eight. It is Best Baddie. So the nominees for Best Baddie are A, Bernard, B, Sims, C, Meadows, D, Trumbull, E, Kathleen Billings. Kathleen Billings is a baddie? In my book. That's rough.

[01:06:56] Controversial, Alicia, really controversial. Oh boy. Yeah, I'm not gonna pick her. I'm gonna say that. I know there are people out there who agree with me. All right, so who will you pick, John? I will pick Bernard because he's a complex villain. I see his motivations.

[01:07:15] I think he believes he's doing the right thing and as far as we know right now, maybe he is, right? We don't know exactly what's out there, exactly what's going on. He could actually be protecting more people by sacrificing a few

[01:07:33] and sometimes that's what a leader of a country or an organization does and that is a tough thing to wrestle with and so well he almost doesn't care what Julia thinks about him, which is interesting. He, when she goes, oh it was you, he goes, yeah.

[01:07:52] He's like almost resigned to being the villain. He's like, yeah, I know I'm the bad guy of this. I'm exasperated about it, but you know what? I'm doing what I gotta do and I have work to do. I can't deal with your nonsense anymore. So Bernard.

[01:08:05] Okay, okay, fair. And Luke, what about you? See, I don't think this is fair treating Sims and Bernard as two separate entities for this. We coined the portmanteau Sims, Nard for a reason, but I am gonna go with Sims. Okay. Partly because Common just rocks intimidation.

[01:08:30] Like he just is able to occupy that character of Sims in such a way that he is, he's both physically and emotionally intimidating. And what I think makes him probably a more interesting villain than Bernard is the family dynamic within the family Sims.

[01:08:51] So we find out that he has inherited this job from his father. We find out that him and Camille have some kind of plan. And by the way, I love the discord for this because I didn't take that as anything other than we need to look after Anthony.

[01:09:08] We need to look after our son. Whereas like everybody on the discord came up with these really elaborate, really baroque but really convincing theories of what the master plan of the family Sims is. And I'm fascinated to know whether there is any truth to that.

[01:09:27] Is there a plan and if so, what is it? And what is Robert Sims's role within that? And finally, I just love the scene in the last episode where Simpsons Julieta were kind of do you know what I do? Do you know what I do?

[01:09:46] It's like, whoa, whoa, man, back down. With the chair getting defeated here. Yeah, with Julieta in Walkers Workshop. So I really want, I would love to have been a fly on the wall the day they film next. Did like Carmen have to go off to one side

[01:10:05] to like compose himself? Did he like have to apologize to Rebecca Ferguson? Cause wow, that was intense. I feel like they're probably both the type of actors that just kind of switch off as soon as the camera goes off. I've heard that Rebecca Ferguson is

[01:10:20] but I feel like it's probably- Where are we getting for months today? Yeah, exactly. All right, and David, who's your pick? Best Batty. I definitely have to go with Bernard for the same reasons that John mentioned. He's a complex villain and I enjoy complex villains.

[01:10:38] Simps, as much as I enjoyed Common's performance I'm gonna counter, I'm gonna counterweight Luke, your argument a little bit. I felt he was a little too over the top and simplistic for me. I get why maybe somebody in that role needs to be that way.

[01:10:54] I think Simps' character is a great counterpoint to Bernard's and so it makes Bernard's deviousness. It backdrops it a little bit more and so yeah, when we get the reveal like, yeah, I'm the bad guy. And the whole time watching it,

[01:11:10] I was wondering why they were able to get Tim Robbins as an actor, his caliber on this show and now I see why. Now I get it. At first I thought he was overmatched for the role but no, in fact, he's playing this role brilliantly

[01:11:28] and that this role like John said needs some subtlety because we don't know yet how many lives is he actually saving at the same time of being a controlling authoritarian secretive person. Yeah, yeah. And John, what about you? There can only be one and it is Bernard. Bernard.

[01:11:51] You hear that guy, I'm telling you. Yeah. You picked him early too, John. Early on. I saw it through all of it. I knew it was him from the beginning. From the first time. Like I don't like his glasses. The first time, exactly.

[01:12:04] First time he stepped on screen. I said, yeah, no, no, no. He's this guy is not to be trusted and he was number one on my board of evil and it came through fruition and this guy is, I don't care about anyone saying, he's trying to save people

[01:12:23] and he has to be caught in the city. All of that stuff. That guy is just, he's a terrible guy. He's a terrible human being. He's doing what he's doing and there's a part of him when I watch him that relishes in what he's doing

[01:12:38] and relishes in the power that he has over people which is classic villain 101. Yeah, I'm doing it for your own good but in actuality it kind of feels good to make you all close your eyes and turn around. Turn around. Yeah. You too. Yeah, you too.

[01:12:58] John, can I ask you? Yes. Would you rather live under Bernard's regime or Gravic's regime? Ooh. Ooh. And this is a secret invasion reference. Ooh. Yeah, we just, I just finished editing episode four so and we talk a lot about Gravic.

[01:13:15] Oh man, I mean if I'm a human I wanna live under Bernard because I'm still alive. All right, all right. Let's say there's no, there's no sprolstism. There's no human, humanism. Yes. Let's say you don't have to worry about that. On a governance standpoint,

[01:13:32] Gravic's a human, he governs the same way. Gravic. Gravic. You wanna live under Gravic? I know exactly who he is. Okay. All right. And I know exactly what he'll do to me where as opposed to Bernard, I would be shocked and afraid. You got a whole document.

[01:13:51] You got the packed. Yeah. All packed, you're fine. So yeah. He gave you a handbook on how to not cross. I don't trust that handbook either. No way, no way. I mean he didn't write the handbook himself either. That's the thing. It's like how can you trust somebody

[01:14:04] who doesn't even know all the things? There you go, there you go. So definitely Gravic. You saw him in that finale, you know, he was like, what did he say? The founders left many reasons. The founders. The founders.

[01:14:15] Yeah, give me the evil that I can tell is evil right away. All right, well the winner of this category is clearly Bernard, but I'm gonna throw out my vote is for Trumbull just because he was the most cartoonish villain for me.

[01:14:29] You know, I have the least sympathy for him. Let's put it that way, except for that moment where he thought that he had finally gotten the job just before he plunged his death. Mm. All right. Okay, category number nine. This is the penultimate category

[01:14:48] of the main awards ceremony. So best animal character so far. Options are A, Regina's cat. B, the bacon loving dogs of supply. C, the snake that is Bernard. D, the bunny with a heart defect. The rabbit. Full stop. I don't need to think about that one.

[01:15:09] But the second choice was the many babies that Bunny inevitably had to populate the silo like rats. Oh, okay, well, that is tough now. I'm going with the original Bunny. Okay. He had a heart of gold. All right, it's Sean. It's the Bunny with the heart defect, man.

[01:15:29] I mean, how can you, you can't move away from that. Yeah, that scene is just so, God. It's heart wrenching. Everybody has a soft spot for the Bunny with the heart defect. Yeah, and I was, yeah, definitely. It's the Bunny with the heart defect. All right.

[01:15:47] And what about you, David? It has to be the cat. And the fact that the cat is a main coon breed, which is like a bobcat sized animal living in the silo, that's, I flipped out when I saw that. I don't know if they,

[01:16:02] if somebody on set or the writer or somebody with some pull was able to say, yeah, we're doing a main coon or the animal trainers brought that. I don't know how, but I just love the fact that it's not an average domestic cat breed.

[01:16:19] All right, and what about you, Luke? Oh, it has to be the Bunny with the heart defect because how long was Hannah Nichols waiting for the farmer to not only be able to produce a Bunny for her to experiment on, but a Bunny with a heart defect.

[01:16:34] It's like, she must have been on the job. With the hole in it, right? Yeah, I could just imagine that she's like assembled the entire apparatus and she's just waiting there for months till the farmer found a Bunny with a heart defect. It's like, yeah, I just,

[01:16:53] I love that whole thing because it just underlines like Hannah's commitment to building this device and to making sure what happened to Jacob never happens to anybody in the silo again. So not only is the Bunny with a heart defect cute, but actually I think the,

[01:17:16] I think it actually played quite an important role in the story because again, Hannah Nichols is one of those characters we don't see for very long, but the show does an amazing job of telling you who she is, what her motives are.

[01:17:31] I'm making you care about what happens to her. Okay, all right. Yeah, the Bunny with a heart defect is a clear winner of the category best animal character so far, but my vote goes to the many baby bunnies that that Bunny inevitably had.

[01:17:47] I like to picture them just like on all levels now and yeah, book readers will know who, how he confirmed it's Canon. One of the Bunny's descendants is the Bunny who plagues Marn's later in life. Well, at least the cat will have plenty of friends.

[01:18:02] To go out and talk to. Your pics eating my pics? Probably. Yeah, and finally we've come to the last category of the main awards event. Category number 10, the most seriously fucked character going into season two. Yikes. Our options are A, Juliet, B, Lucas,

[01:18:27] C, Bernard, D, Billings, E, Patrick Kennedy. I'm gonna say Juliet based on just the information in the show because she is literally in a toxic wasteland. Okay. Luke, what do you think? I'm gonna go with Billings because I genuinely don't know where that guy's head

[01:18:54] is at at the end of this series. You would think it would be Juliet, but I think the show, there's nothing the show can do about this, but the show really suffers from the fact that Rebecca Ferguson is an executive producer. Because plot armor, ultimate plot armor.

[01:19:13] They're not going to kill Juliet. She's like, I can believe they will kill every other character in the silo. They will not kill her. She is wearing all the plot armor. So it can't be Juliet. Yeah, I really don't know where Billings' head is at.

[01:19:31] I don't know what deal he made with Simznard, but I don't trust either of them to keep their end of whatever deal that is. And it just feels like Billings is on a very tragic path. I really hope I'm wrong because he is,

[01:19:46] he is by some distance my favorite character in the show. Or at least the one I feel the strongest sense of empathy with for a whole lot of reasons we talk about throughout the podcast. But yeah, I think Billings is in serious trouble. Okay, all right.

[01:20:03] I'm going to go with Lucas and I think a lot of book readers will agree with me. I just, he's in a very precarious position right now. And I genuinely worry about what's gonna happen with him. What about you, Jean? I'm going with Billings.

[01:20:19] Yeah, I told for all the reasons that Lucas said, but I have to go back to something that you said earlier that Kathleen Billings is a villain. And I agree with that. So not only is he on being... Not only does he have to guard at work,

[01:20:45] but I also think he has to guard at home. He just doesn't know it yet. She's doing her own, she's got her own plans and they may not include him. So Billings, all his secrets are out and how that gets dealt with is going to be interesting.

[01:21:07] Okay, and David? I have to go with Juliette. The, to be out there, how is she gonna get back in somewhere assuming that all the silos are constructed similar? Sil, I can't even say it now. Silmarillionly. Silmarillionly is going to be a challenge.

[01:21:32] She's got some better heat tape on her suit, but how good is that heat tape in general? How much oxygen does she have in her tank? Where is she gonna go? I am on the most, everybody else's, it's political, it's relationships.

[01:21:50] I think she's in the most mortal physical danger. Okay, yeah, so then, yeah, that gives us a tie for the final category. The most seriously fucked characters going into season two are Juliette and Billings. It's official. Official. And then, yay. Yeah, I guess. Yay. Yikes.

[01:22:13] And that wraps up round one, the main event, but we've still got our rapid fire round two coming your way right after this commercial break. Round two. All right, so we're gonna begin with John and I, this with five rapid fryer questions just for book readers.

[01:22:32] So John, I'll drop a category and you just say the first thing that pops into your head, I'll do the same and then immediately drop the next category. Okay. So best new character. Danny. I'm going to go with Camille. Most improved character from the book. Walker.

[01:22:52] I'm gonna go with Billings, I think that he got more fleshed out. Best new concept. The, I had this in my head a minute ago. I could have told you this five minutes ago. Um, what's the new concept? Do you have any choices for,

[01:23:11] I know you don't have choices, this is rapid fire. Like the flame keepers or like... The flame keepers, that's a good one. Okay. Yeah. I will agree with you on flame keepers, which means I get to use a sound effect

[01:23:25] that I haven't gotten to use this entire game. Super ultra winner. Yeah. Okay, worst change. Worst change? The tape, the tape not explaining it enough, not having the whole conversation where Juliet is, you know, like saying like, oh, that IT tape is crap. Yeah, okay.

[01:23:47] I think worst change for me is that not, is Lucas who didn't get, he was set up in a weird way. I'm nervous about Lucas, like I keep saying. Best silo book. Dust. Dust, ooh, okay. And best silo book. I'm gonna go with shift.

[01:24:04] I think that's a lot of people's most popular opinion. All right. Moving on to round two, B. And this one is for the show only reps. So Jean, David and Luke, you're up. Now, without thinking too much, I'm gonna ask each of you

[01:24:21] to please make three predictions about season two. What do you hope or expect to see? It can be big end game stuff or something as silly as more leather jackets. So starting with David. Oh, three predictions. IT staffers are not only gonna form a union

[01:24:40] but they're gonna revolt or one of them's going to be a mole of some kind or have a moral crisis. I think they were, I think somebody's gonna have a moral crisis and be a turncoat to their department. Okay. I think the down deep is going to start

[01:25:02] to flex its muscles. And I think the judge is going to falter, judge meadows and we're gonna see some destabilization in judicial. Okay. And Luke, you're up. Okay. I think season two is gonna be set across multiple locations. So I think part of the story will take place

[01:25:29] in the original silo. I think parts of the story will take place in new silos. So that leads on to my second prediction. I think we're gonna get a lot of new characters in different silos. Okay. And the third prediction is,

[01:25:44] well, I'm not sure if this is a prediction or just something that has to happen but we're going to see an election for myth. Okay. Because Bernad is only mere pro temp. So at some point there's gotta be an election to either confirm him or pick somebody else.

[01:25:59] Right. And what happens today is head of IT girl. Yeah. Okay. And Jean, what are your three rapid fire predictions for season two? One, I think Sims will attempt a coup. Okay. Two, Juliet will find other survivors. And three, I don't think the entire world is a wasteland.

[01:26:19] Okay. And we'll see that. All right. And that concludes the first and last only ever Walsh if Dusk Lorehounds, Silo season one very unserious awards show. I hope all the nominees and winners are touched and honored. To all the favorite scenes and characters

[01:26:40] we didn't have time to shine a spotlight on today. Just know that you are always in our hearts and our rewatches. Now any last thoughts about Silo season one or Silo season two theories to throw out there? David.

[01:26:54] I think it was a great show that was totally not on radar. I, at the beginning of the year, I put together a really big list of all the shows that were coming this year so that we had a better handle of our podcasting schedule.

[01:27:09] They've been really slow at announcing shows this year and drop dates and things like that. I saw Silo nowhere on any radars. There was no intel about this. And so I always love it when a show still looks in like this and then is a wow,

[01:27:26] a real wow show that brings in community and fan theories and does a great job in its writing and design and production. I think the bear qualifies in that, severance qualifies in that. I think I'm happy that we had this opportunity to explore an author.

[01:27:52] It sounds like from your interview that Hugh Howie's got a whole bunch of other work that's out there that's being options. So might be kind of fun to have a Hugh Howie IP universe of some sort. So I think it's great. And the fact that as an author,

[01:28:09] he is a person who understands the relationship between fandom and the creator and that he's open in that way and that he's generous with his time and generous with his support for other authors who've been in similar positions of him. So really all round kudos and stars.

[01:28:31] Yeah, definitely. I was really fascinated to find out that it was only the first half of wool and that we have a lot more to go. I'm really excited for season two. I've posted some fancasts in the Discord Silo Book Spoilers channel. I'm really excited.

[01:28:48] I really am curious about even past season two how they're going to handle a lot of the structure of the books going forward in like season three. I'm hoping that they bring different storylines together. They interweave things more than they were in the books

[01:29:08] because I think that will keep us grounded a little more. And I'm hoping that they're doing that in season two as well. But overall, I was really happy with the season. I was happy with it before I read the books.

[01:29:18] I'm happy with it after I read the books. And thank you, Alicia, for introducing us to this world. Well, I'm happy to do it. And Jean, what about you? Any last thoughts, season one? Yeah, I thoroughly appreciated this show. It's something new to me, this entire universe,

[01:29:36] this entire IP. And when I find something that I've not encountered before and knowing that there are novels and it makes me want to read those books, that is the highest praise that a TV show can get. So I really, this was one of my favorite series

[01:30:00] that I've watched in a while. And that is completely new to me, completely foreign to me was even better. I'm looking forward to season two and I'm looking forward to getting into the books. Yeah, great. I mean, yeah, well said. I think that just the number of people

[01:30:18] who have run out to get the books based on this show says something good about the story and the show. So Luke, what about you? Last thoughts in our last episode for this season officially? Yeah, I mean, I'll stick to season one

[01:30:32] because I think we'll probably do season two. We'll do previews, sure. Yeah, and previews. So I mean, obviously really enjoyed it. Just really impressed at the quality in so many areas. So acting, directing, writing, set design, the score, the way it's been produced.

[01:30:54] Like I think I might have mentioned this in a previous podcast, but I love what Graham Yolsters' showrunner is doing in pairing either an experienced director with experienced writers or doing the opposite in pairing relatively inexperienced writers with experienced directors. Because, you know, normally on a podcast

[01:31:16] we only talk about showrunners when something goes wrong. So I think he's only fair to actually talk about a show that is being well-run and that is actually constructing a pipeline of talent both on and off screen. I know season two has largely been filmed.

[01:31:35] I am a little bit concerned. What happens with future seasons in terms of the multiple strike actions that are now going on? But I mean, that has to turn across the board. It's not silo specific. Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think they might be stopping

[01:31:57] with their season two production now that the actors strike. But it is also filmed in the UK, which is a gray area because this is technically an American strike. So it remains to be seen what effect this has. But I just, to make it clear,

[01:32:15] I 100% support the strikes because when you just hear about the things that are trying to be snuck into contracts like with the actors, the news, they said that they were proposing to them that day actors get a one-day rate and have their images scanned in

[01:32:35] that can be used forever, which is like straight out of Jonah's awful from Black Mirror, like literally Black Mirror episodes. So yeah. Wasn't there a film a couple of years ago that Robin Wright did? Right, the Congress I think it's called.

[01:32:49] Yeah, that was basically the premise of the film. Yeah, exactly. Can I plug in different podcasts on a different network? Of course. So on the Ringer Network, there's a podcast called The Town with Matt Melanie and he covers a lot of industry news around Los Angeles

[01:33:07] and in TV and film. And I believe it would be the Friday, maybe the 14th July 14th episode. He interviews the chief negotiator for SAG-AFTRA, Duncan Crabtree Ireland, who goes into a lot of details about what were the offers that they were putting on the table

[01:33:29] to in their negotiations. And some of the stuff that sounds really reasonable from the actors, especially around the AI stuff, they are acknowledging that AI is here. But like you said, the idea that you get paid a day rate,

[01:33:46] they scan your likeness and then that's it, you're done. They can use that in perpetuity. They don't have to inform you when they're using it, any of those kinds of things. And that's what the studios were arguing for. And it just utterly ridiculous.

[01:34:00] It's hard to argue you're coming from a place of good faith with that. Exactly. But guys, Bob Iger needs more money, clearly. I mean, I was reading an interview with Bob Iger and it's like, do you not have PR people? Do you not realize? Yeah, exactly.

[01:34:19] Now when you're down rich. The terrible way in which you come in a cross. Now when you're down wealthy, they just don't care. And fully support workers fighting for their rights. And I think sometimes we get bogged down into thinking Hollywood and it's all actors who are multi-millionaires,

[01:34:39] but there are so many other people on sets that are affected who are wage earners essentially. There's not a workers movement anywhere that I feel that one should not support. Yeah, this is ultimately about labor versus capital. Absolutely. And it's just now hitting the streaming industry

[01:35:01] because the model has so been radically upended by streaming. Well, just every time the model changes, the execs find a way to use it to their advantage to give less money. Of course. Yeah, exactly. That's why you gotta have a, yeah, unions, right? Yeah. Exactly.

[01:35:20] And just to talk to your point, Alicia about Silo and probably other shows being filmed in the UK. I haven't heard anything about what the UK unions are doing, but I find it really hard to imagine that they will cross picket lines either real or virtual.

[01:35:40] There is a very prominent production in the UK right now that has decided not to shut down. That's getting a lot of ire and that's House of the Dragon. Interesting. And they say, and their actors cannot strike

[01:35:53] because they are under a contract that says they cannot do that. The UK strike. Interesting. OK, interesting. Yeah, so getting back to the dystopia at hand, let's stick to the fictional dystopias. Now, yeah, I will post on Twitter

[01:36:09] a summary of all of our picks from this award show so that we can bask in the winners for, well, until season two. But to wrap up here with a little news about this podcast, this feed is going to be quiet for a couple of weeks.

[01:36:24] But Luke and I will be back. We'll be back to cover Dune more on that in a moment. In the meantime, the Silo fun is continuing on the Wool Shift Dust Silo Book Club. The second part of my interview with Hugh Howie

[01:36:36] is already available to book club members, though you'll definitely want to check out part one of this interview in this feed first. And you'll also get to meet Sam, AKA Silo TV fans, my co-host for the Silo Book Club.

[01:36:49] A big thank you to the Silozans who have moved in so far. In addition to the people I mentioned in the Hugh Howie interview episode, I also want to thank Chris R., Jacob M., Debbie S., who's my mom, Darcy S., Eric S., Tom B., Kim K.,

[01:37:05] and Abby, who have joined since then. Those Silozans and any other new members of the book club will find Sam and my breakdown of Wool, the first novel in the Silo series, waiting in their podcatchers next week.

[01:37:17] And David and John, you guys have joined the book club too. Are you planning to read the books now, David? Or are you gonna go in for spoilers? I am not going in for spoilers that I'm not going in for reading the books right now.

[01:37:31] I joined for solidarity. Okay. Oh, well, it's much appreciated. Did I know John? I believe John also personally subscribed. That's true. I was gonna say, John, I hope we'll get to share some of your thoughts as we discuss the books in these next couple of months.

[01:37:45] Absolutely. I'll be writing in. All right, great. Yeah, well, thank you so much for your support. Oh, and I want to hear, I do kind of want to hear the second part of your interview. Yeah, there are some book spoilers. I mark in the notes.

[01:37:59] I mark in the notes what spoilers are where, but yeah. Yeah, I'll be fine. And yeah, the Lorehounds, by the way, are the publishers of this podcast. You'll find me there with John and David on the MC Universe podcast, currently covering Secret Invasion, as I mentioned.

[01:38:15] And John, is there somewhere else they can find you? Currently no, but there are some things that might be in the works. So yeah, stay tuned, Lorehounds, the end. You're on the Discord though, too. Oh yeah, I'm on the Discord. So hit me up anytime.

[01:38:32] You can chat with all of us in the Lorehounds Discord. You'll find the link there in the show notes. And you can also find me on Twitter and other social media as at AliciaCB, spelled out for you in the show notes as well.

[01:38:43] And Luke, where can they find you? They can find me at LukeMidhip. And I do another podcast with a couple of friends from uni looking at the worlds of politics and sport. We try to do one UK story, one international story and one sports story.

[01:39:01] There isn't really a regular schedule to it. We do a podcast when we feel like we've got three stories to talk about. Yeah, that's awesome. But that is, it could be said or one word. It's available in all good podcast outlets. OK.

[01:39:16] And you'll also be able to find Luke and I right back here in this feed in August to start our Dune series where we'll be talking you through the book by Frank Herbert and then no fewer than four attempts to adapt that magnemopus.

[01:39:28] So we'll not only be learning the deep lore and themes of Herbert's universe but also studying what works and what doesn't work when adapting the same source material from page to screen. And of course, we will be looking at Sting

[01:39:39] wearing a pair of wings over a tentative path. You have that to look forward to. But first, we'll start with an episode on all the background you need to set the stage for one of the most epic stories sci-fi has ever known. Until then, we salute you, Juliet.

[01:39:55] Just wait until the silo squad finds out that you're really a Benny Jezzerit witch named Lady Jessica. Twist! Ah! OK, David. This is where we're supposed to choose a side, green or black? John, my soul is as black as night. Your turn. I am black for life.

[01:40:36] So we're not fighting? I thought this is where HBO wanted us to, like, pick sides and fight and stuff. Don't worry. I'm sure we'll find plenty to disagree about on the pod but we seem to agree on one thing. We both really like the show.

[01:40:49] The politics, the drama, the lore! It was made for the Lorehounds. And since we just finished recapping season one, we couldn't be more ready to defend our black queen in the Dance of the Dragons. And with the season pass option and Supercast, listeners can get early ad-free access

[01:41:06] to each weekly scene by scene deep dive plus our custom show guide with all the characters and connections. See you in the Lorehounds podcast feed each week for our Dragonfire Hot, but probably positive, takes. The Lorehounds house with the Dragon covers is also safe for team green consumption.

[01:41:22] Side effects may include a deeper understanding of Dragon lore, a hardened conflict with itself, and an inescapable urge to read the book fire in blood by George R.R. Martin. Dragon seeds may experience burning.