What songs explain the twisted minds of our co-hosts? In this sidetrack, Mark and Nichole share the soundtracks to their own life stages. What toys was a young Mark obsessed with? Just how evil were Nichole’s middle school bullies? Tune in to feast on our exposed guts, and check us out next week for a regular episode!
Music heard in this episode: Dire Straits - “Money for Nothing”, Another Bad Creation - “Iesha”, Spin Doctors - “Two Princes”, The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - “No Treaties”, Dishwalla - “Counting Blue Cars”, UB40 - “Red Red Wine”, Sublime - “Scarlet Begonias”, Blink-182 - “Going Away to College”, The Reindeer Section - “Where I Fall”, Moxy Früvous - “Michigan Militia”, The Flaming Lips - “Do You Realize??”, The Beatles - “Something”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Are we introducing ourselves?
00:01 --> 00:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess.
00:02 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_03]: How do we podcast?
00:04 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Are we doing it?
00:05 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_01]: This is everybody.
00:06 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the first sidetrack of season two.
00:11 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_03]: And we forgot how.
00:12 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, season one sidetracks had a lot of stuff cut out from an episode that we put as a sidetrack.
00:19 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_01]: We had the ones where let's talk about our covers that was like a separate thing, but so many of the sidetracks began with
00:26 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_01]: everybody mark here this side track was taken from our conversation about the dooby brothers and we're not going to have as much of that this season because we have guests and stuff so we need a new intro
00:47 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm Mark.
00:48 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm Nicole.
00:49 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a sidetrack of Nevermind the music.
00:51 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_01]: How's that work?
00:52 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
00:52 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_03]: It sounds fine.
00:54 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Right in everybody.
00:54 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, let us know.
00:56 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Never music pot at gmail.com, hop on the discord.
01:00 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Let us know a better way to start a sidetrack.
01:02 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Just wear a loss because I'm not writing new theme music, not yet at least.
01:06 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_01]: No, he won't do it.
01:07 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
01:07 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:08 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_03]: So we were talking about, well, we just came off of talking more Taylor Swift.
01:12 --> 01:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And that got me thinking about the eras tour, obviously, and how I never went.
01:18 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And I have regret not going because I didn't want to spend the money, but now I realize it should spend the money, whatever.
01:23 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And it started getting me thinking of like the different eras of my life.
01:28 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And because this is a podcast about music, we started thinking about different songs for each of us that represent those eras.
01:37 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I thought even more about how cool it would be if we bend those eras to map back to developmental psychology windows.
01:49 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_01]: developmental stages for a human being.
01:50 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
01:52 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So the way you just said what we're doing today, everybody, we're doing our errors, Mark and Nicole's errors in music.
02:00 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_01]: You made me a little as scared though because I did once that represent what I was listening to.
02:05 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Not represent me like I chose I'm too sexy for me as a middle schooler because I was so confident.
02:11 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not that it's more like if I was listening to right said Fred right like
02:15 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I hope I didn't do this wrong.
02:17 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_03]: No, there's no right around here.
02:18 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't have no one's, there's no rubric involved.
02:20 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_03]: But I did, it's just my nature.
02:23 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Like what I listened to did reflect what was going on developmentally for me.
02:29 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Mine is like a little bit of both.
02:31 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Like what I was listening to, but a lot of them are like representative of my development.
02:35 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So what I did was songs that represent what I was listening to, that represents a milestone in that era for me.
02:41 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
02:42 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like it lyrically explains what it's like to be an adolescent or anything like that.
02:46 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_03]: But it speaks to my moments in that time of my life.
02:50 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about it like my development of my musical taste.
02:54 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking about it.
02:56 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking about it as like development of me as a human.
02:59 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's okay.
03:00 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
03:01 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's wrong, apparently, or is mine wrong?
03:03 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
03:03 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_01]: No wrong.
03:04 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
03:04 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking yours might be wrong.
03:06 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say.
03:07 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_01]: What I did do, and this is maybe make some of my answers, not disingenuous, but maybe not authentic.
03:14 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I went out of my way to not do crap that's we've hashed out a million times on this podcast.
03:18 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
03:19 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody knows I like weird.
03:22 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody knows I like voice demand.
03:24 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Like so when we get to the early adolescent developmental stage, I'm not going to be playing Motown Philly or something like that, right?
03:32 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Although Motown Philly, I think would be earlier than that anyway.
03:35 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
03:36 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Not going to be playing.
03:37 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you by boys to men or bad hair day by weird owl because I had a lot of that.
03:42 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I had a lot of that to be like, we all know it early adolescent.
03:46 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be Whitney Houston from the bodyguard.
03:48 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be boys to men, right?
03:51 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's going to be a hosier for maybe we still have hosier.
03:54 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
03:54 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
03:56 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I should say this one, what we did is not like when we did the favorite covers episode.
04:01 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_01]: For example,
04:02 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew in advance what music to prep up.
04:06 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
04:06 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Nicole told me I had this is more like when we did the favorite concerts where I didn't know and I'm going to be surprised and I'll just dive in and find clips later because that's why I get paid the big bucks producing this podcast.
04:19 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So I chose stuff you haven't heard me talk about a million times should we define our errors before we go through our errors?
04:26 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I think we should like I'll talk about the developmental stage and then we can each say our songs that's represented on that stage.
04:34 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_03]: So the first one we focused on, there's, well, as I've talked in my with my developmental psychologist hat on before, a lot of our developmental windows are front loaded to our, you know, under the age of twenty five.
04:48 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So you have a lot of different developmental shifts during those really, really formative years.
04:53 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of them are like pre-imphancy, infancy, super early childhood, like the toddler years.
04:59 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_03]: We're not while Mark May remember his toddler year music.
05:03 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't really focus on anything from that development to window.
05:07 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I started at middle childhood.
05:09 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the developmental window before middle childhood?
05:11 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Early childhood.
05:12 --> 05:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I just shout out one for three to six?
05:16 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So I've got one from three to six and it's not one I remember.
05:22 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one I quote, remember, unquote, because it's told to me, often enough in my later life, which is this song was apparently my favorite song when I was three years old or whatever.
05:40 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's so like representative of your present day music taste.
05:44 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_05]: I know that you circled back to like a synth pop in your later life later.
05:51 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_05]: If you were
06:10 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I generally prefer fewer bad F bombs.
06:13 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Not the fun F bomb, the bad F bomb.
06:15 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if there's something about the groove.
06:17 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_01]: My parents would say like I would bounce in my car seat.
06:20 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you have to say in reflection?
06:22 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Early car seat technology.
06:25 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Not everybody was in a car seat back in the mid-eighties or when it was came out.
06:28 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Mark's parents.
06:29 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Way to go.
06:30 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't die.
06:31 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Not yet.
06:32 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're all gonna die.
06:33 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so that's my early childhood quick, quick diversion.
06:36 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't really have a lot.
06:38 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, so I remember starting like a more middle childhood era.
06:41 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_03]: So the stage is usually like from six to ten.
06:45 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_03]: These windows like very depending on who you read about and who you listen to.
06:48 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_03]: But for this, we're we're floating a little bit of Erickson, a little bit of like newer theories as well to make it fit for our podcast.
06:57 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_03]: This is when you really start to get a higher level of cognitive development, really logical thinking skills, problem solving skills.
07:05 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Socially, you move towards more complex stages of development, like you're moving from a primary group, which is mostly your parents and your family, to more of a secondary group where you're going into school and you're working with people outside of your home and getting exposed to different ideas.
07:21 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So six to ten, it's elementary school years.
07:25 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like ending right before.
07:27 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I have two, one I just want to mention briefly, which is Iisha by another bad creation.
07:57 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_01]: that which came up in one of our episodes.
08:00 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, to hit wonder.
08:01 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_03]: We did talk to him wonders.
08:02 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's best right.
08:04 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you saying play ground?
08:05 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And play ground.
08:06 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, okay, so that's one of them.
08:07 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's one of them.
08:09 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I am a
08:12 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I was a young girl.
08:13 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm an older girl now.
08:14 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why I said that.
08:16 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_03]: But a lot of things that girls do is like set up little skits and talent shows with their friends and me and my neighbor friends set up a talent show to IE show but another bad creation.
08:25 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And I played IE show and she played the boy.
08:28 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Was it lip synced?
08:29 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was lip synced.
08:31 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we made it.
08:31 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_03]: We set up chairs and our parents had to watch it and it's like, if
08:34 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_01]: You have enough people because another bad creation is Chris Mark Dave Red Row, or what is it?
08:40 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
08:42 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I have no idea, buddy, but we used like dolls to fill in.
08:48 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So shut up.
08:49 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.
08:49 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Marissa sort of.
08:51 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_03]: But the one I picked two princes by the spin doctors.
08:56 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_07]: Come out baby, just go ahead Now I need you, like to tell that baby, just go ahead Now I need you, wanna buy me flowers, just go ahead Now I need you, like to tell for hours, just go ahead
09:14 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you familiar with that?
09:15 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of almost.
09:16 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't have that album.
09:19 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, but I love that song and it represents one of the first songs that I remember going by.
09:25 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I really love that song on the radio.
09:26 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been doctors totally.
09:29 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_03]: The reason I picked it is because we had like a fifth grade yearbook that we did.
09:35 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And in the yearbook, you had to say like what your favorite song was.
09:38 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And everyone, it was either everyone picked that song.
09:42 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was definitely like a conformity thing.
09:45 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Like if you didn't pick two princes by the spin doctors, you were not in the in group of people.
09:52 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_03]: And that makes me think of this kind of the social development we see in the era because
09:59 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Especially the next era probably because you want to blend in.
10:02 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't want to be different.
10:04 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And I see it in my kid now.
10:05 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I got her like this hoodie that everyone has.
10:07 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, oh, I dropped off at school and everyone's wearing the same hoodie.
10:11 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh, bummer that you got the same one as everyone else.
10:14 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_03]: And she goes, oh, no, that's what, that's what I wanted.
10:17 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_03]: They want to blend in.
10:18 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess I did do.
10:19 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: What is the more memorable parallel structure of the lyrics in the melody throughout that whole song?
10:25 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_01]: What's more memorable that if you
10:28 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: or the, just go ahead now, which thing sticks out, or I know it's both, but it's weird.
10:34 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It goes repeated thing and then something else and then ends.
10:38 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of times a song will have each line start the same way or end this way and the same way, but this song, if you something something something, just go ahead now, that's like every line, right?
10:49 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:49 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in the verses, right?
10:50 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's why I liked it because my brain was so simple because I wasn't cognitively developed enough yet to understand complex rhythm and
10:57 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Fire thrown at all the people older than ten that like.
11:00 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
11:00 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been doctors.
11:02 --> 11:03 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I got.
11:03 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_03]: What do you think for middle child child?
11:04 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So the answer everybody already knows would be like weird out or Michael Jackson or maybe like again the first voice to men album.
11:12 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to play tell me what you think this is.
11:15 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
11:15 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me what you think we're listening to.
11:32 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Wait for it.
11:40 --> 11:51 [UNKNOWN]: I have so many theories of what this could be.
11:55 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_03]: at first in silence.
11:56 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way you're correct by the way, but go ahead, please.
11:58 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_03]: So at first it sounded like not the karate kid, but some sort of soundtrack to a movie.
12:06 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
12:06 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a montage happening.
12:08 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
12:08 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_03]: But then when they're talking about no treaties after the war, I'm thinking maybe this was like an educational tool that was used in your history class.
12:17 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_01]: No, like taking history class back in social studies.
12:20 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Social studies or like something.
12:23 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_03]: schoolhouse rock or something like telly frosty or something like that.
12:28 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So you are right to into it that nineteen eighties break in era.
12:33 --> 12:36 [SPEAKER_01]: California Southern California military town senior go.
12:37 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Would have had would not have an anti war message and so stuffies.
12:41 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be very no treaties take no prisoner.
12:44 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_01]: The economy of the city relies on the military thriving.
12:49 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
12:50 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
12:51 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a point later with it where they go.
12:54 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Now take that shredder.
12:57 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_01]: That is an album just musically speaking in my development like I wasn't a big like hair metal guy, but
13:04 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: That song has like awesome vocal harmonies and like a really good beat.
13:07 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You can see like this is early, right?
13:09 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: This would have been this album can in nineteen eighty nine.
13:13 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not even seven when I probably first heard this album.
13:15 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So first grade second grade something like that.
13:17 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a teenage mutant Ninja Turtles concert tour.
13:21 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.
13:22 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It was dudes and costumes.
13:25 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: not playing, but playing instruments.
13:26 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_01]: They probably there'd be a piped in music because you can't, you can't have giant fingers on a costume while you're playing the instrument.
13:32 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_03]: The music is probably so cool to remember what the merch was like.
13:35 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
13:35 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't go.
13:37 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't go.
13:37 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to go.
13:38 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_01]: This is, again, like, first grade, something like that.
13:40 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Second grade.
13:41 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the T&H.
13:43 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Ninja turtles.
13:44 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And the cartoons later, the video games, the toys, and
13:49 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like a hair metal, but it's not all hair metal, but there's like synth pop in there.
13:54 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: There's rap.
13:55 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like Michelangelo rapping.
13:57 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_03]: It's good.
13:58 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Like Michelangelo.
13:59 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of good, right?
14:01 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Michelangelo's the coolest one.
14:02 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the lead vocalist through most of the album is Raphael, which is weird.
14:06 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like the same one.
14:09 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just something about it.
14:10 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Apparently this was master-minded by this guy, Bob Bejan or Behan, who now runs a marketing firm.
14:16 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I just googled him.
14:17 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
14:17 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It had a whole live show which I didn't see, but I had the album.
14:21 --> 14:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like really like poison kind of high vocal like Bungovi kind of high vocals.
14:27 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just sort of crazy that this is real and it represents, I wasn't really listening to the radio except for whatever was on when my parents were listening.
14:35 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was into weird out later, but this is even earlier than that, right?
14:38 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like six or seven, but I loved it.
14:40 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, you know, I had that and I had the Simpsons album.
14:44 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my gosh.
14:44 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_01]: The same thing the blues.
14:46 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_03]: The same thing the blues.
14:47 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Which was not music from the show.
14:49 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like just songs.
14:50 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: They sang.
14:50 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_03]: They're so good.
14:51 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I had that to have like on a cassette.
14:53 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_03]: We listen to it.
14:54 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_03]: My parents.
14:55 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
15:11 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_01]: What's our next developmental state?
15:12 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_03]: The next developmental stage would be early adolescents.
15:15 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's like middle school year.
15:17 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_03]: So like ten to thirteen typically marked by onset of puberty in most cases.
15:23 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Physical changes, secondary sex characteristics develop.
15:27 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_03]: We also see teens becoming like more separate from their parents emotionally and more focused on their peers and their friend groups.
15:33 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_03]: They start to have a real life outside of the family in a way that's purely theirs.
15:38 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Like they own their life outside of the family.
15:41 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_03]: in a way that's different from elementary school.
15:42 --> 15:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
15:43 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_03]: We're also seeing a high level of what they call ego centricism like this idea that the world revolves around them is or like that they're the main character.
15:52 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what we would say now.
15:53 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_03]: These kids also are really heightened self-consciousness.
15:58 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_03]: They don't want people looking at them.
15:59 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_03]: They don't want to stand out.
16:00 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Thinking here is really concrete or black and white.
16:03 --> 16:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Thinking there isn't a lot of that dichotomous thought that we talk a lot about in this podcast.
16:08 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_03]: The ability to hold to conflicting views out in yourself at once isn't there until much later.
16:15 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_03]: So early adolescence, I'd love for you to go first here.
16:19 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going first.
16:19 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
16:20 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So the answer everybody already knows would be boys to men.
16:24 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Second album, Jim Blossom's Sound Garden.
16:27 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:28 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I still remember being on the bus during eighth grade, reciting Sound Garden lyrics to the other kids on the bus together, right?
16:37 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna play.
16:39 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_01]: One that came out in eighth grade while I was thirteen, not even that far from, you know, being high school or being in the next adolescent phase, right?
16:48 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll play it and then I'll explain why.
17:14 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: You remember the song?
17:15 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I do, and I still love the song.
17:17 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Dishwala.
17:18 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Dishwala.
17:18 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Dishwala.
17:19 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Dishwala.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Very good album, actually, pay your price.
17:20 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not even familiar with the album, but this is iconic song.
17:24 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So I wasn't familiar with the album at the time.
17:27 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I bought the single.
17:29 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Nice.
17:30 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And I got the album later, probably the next year.
17:33 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But the reason I chose this one, in addition to just being an awesome song, I like this is a really fun song.
17:40 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It sits in my voice in a really fun way.
17:42 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that.
17:43 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm strumming on a guitar really loud.
17:45 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I can sing loud and raspy and it has a high fall set of notes.
17:49 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just something about it that works for me, but the reason I chose it in addition to the fact that everybody's sick of hearing me talk about the gym blossoms or whatever concerts I went to is in defiance of what you've been saying about this era.
18:03 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_01]: This was an independent musical grab of mind.
18:06 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_01]: This was not
18:08 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: a song everybody was latching onto.
18:10 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
18:10 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_01]: This was not like Bush would come on the radio and people in my class in eighth grade were like, oh, yeah, because they let us play music or like date rape by sublime people like, oh, did you hear this sound?
18:19 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
18:20 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: No, this was like nobody else was talking about dishwala, but this song just I love this song and I independently got it none of my friends liked it.
18:28 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe they liked it, but it was it was kind of like
18:31 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_01]: In the years where all I was doing was trying to conform, and all I was doing was doing what everybody else was doing, desperately trying not to stand out.
18:40 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I carved a moment of my own musical taste, and I looked back at that fondly, I guess.
18:46 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's good.
18:47 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Good album.
18:47 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Good band.
18:48 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Good memory.
18:49 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Mine is not attached to a good memory.
18:51 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_03]: It's actually a very sad memory of me.
18:53 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
18:54 --> 18:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I wanted you to go.
18:54 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll say county blue cars by diswallet.
18:57 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine if it was, but I just have a completely different interpretation of it.
19:01 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_03]: This is obscure.
19:03 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_03]: But mine is red red wine by you beforety.
19:05 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
19:07 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you remember that song?
19:08 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course I remember that song.
19:31 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_03]: This is going to get sad.
19:33 --> 19:34 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a sad story of Nicole lore.
19:35 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_03]: When I was, so we were talking ten to thirteen, I was like later to develop, like I was a late bloomer, right?
19:44 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Physically, I've since developed, but at the time, I was very, very slow to develop.
19:51 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of the girls around me were like becoming women and I wasn't.
19:55 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
19:56 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And they used to bully me and sing red, red wine to me as like a bullying thing because I hadn't gotten my period yet.
20:06 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Whoa.
20:07 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I know.
20:08 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, first of all, that's really fucked up.
20:09 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so fucked up.
20:13 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_01]: God, we might have to sidetrack on the sidetrack.
20:15 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, hang on.
20:16 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to note that I think of all of the examples we've played.
20:21 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the only one that feels like it might not be directly contemporary.
20:26 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Like county blue cars came out when I was that age.
20:29 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_01]: that Tina's meeting is a shuttle's coming out of their shells tour was while I was a first grader.
20:33 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: This song was already kind of old, right?
20:36 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like eighties probably, right?
20:37 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, probably.
20:38 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember you before the exactly, but yeah.
20:41 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me get this straight.
20:42 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So red red wine is like a menstrual blood reference.
20:48 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
20:50 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
20:50 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the song is, right?
20:51 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not what the song is, but this is what the bullies were singing to me.
20:57 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about secondary sexual characteristics like, yes.
21:00 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_01]: When you say that, I'm thinking boobs or the peach fuzz mustache of the boys will get.
21:06 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not even in my head at eighth grade or seventh grade or whatever you're talking.
21:10 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Tracking that the girls are aware that
21:17 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And this was the eighties.
21:20 --> 21:23 [SPEAKER_03]: They're even, and well, not the eighties.
21:23 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the nineties one.
21:25 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we didn't really have like body positive books about puberty.
21:29 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we had the American girl doll book like that's fine.
21:32 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_01]: They got the awkward conversation in fifth grade.
21:34 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_03]: If that, right?
21:35 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_03]: And now girls are much more body positive, much more like open to talk about this.
21:41 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I have an eleven year old daughter.
21:42 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a main topic of conversation among her and her friends.
21:46 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:47 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm just thinking how if it's so in their faces now and we weren't really allowed to talk about it so much then, but still was like very much part of adolescence for girls.
21:59 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_03]: was like, who got their period?
22:00 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_03]: When did she get it?
22:01 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, my gosh.
22:03 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_03]: So when am I going to get it?
22:05 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, all this kind of mistake around it.
22:08 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: That really sucks.
22:08 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Very mean girl.
22:10 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why middle school sucks.
22:11 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And my kid just started middle school.
22:13 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's scary.
22:16 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You overshared, I'm going to overshare.
22:18 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And not just about cheating, he needs me in Ninja Turtles.
22:21 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I blossomed early, especially when you consider I was really young for my grade.
22:29 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
22:29 --> 22:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I still went through puberty more than most of my classmates for some reason, not like fifth grade, but like more.
22:35 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I had like a scratchy kind of deepish voice, like seventh grade or whatever, like
22:39 --> 22:44 [SPEAKER_01]: There was like a year period where I would answer my parents' phone, and they think I was my mom.
22:44 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first they'd be like, oh, hi, Marker.
22:46 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, my brother, right?
22:47 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there was a period briefly where they thought I was my mom, and then immediately after that, they thought I was, oh, right.
22:53 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Mark's dad.
22:54 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so why am I not bragging?
22:58 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I went through puberty.
22:58 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so good for me.
23:00 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It sucks for me.
23:02 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Like being in like so six, seven, eighth grade middle school, you had to like change in the in the locker room.
23:09 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And like I'm all self-conscious because I'm got hair where the other guys don't have hair.
23:14 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And those guys are looking at me going, oh crap, I'm self-conscious because I don't have hair.
23:19 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm looking at them going, oh my god, I wish I was still a little kid like that kid.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: as a decorator or whatever.
23:24 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's very, very common for any gender during adolescence.
23:29 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_03]: This idea that like, yeah, if you're a girl and you blossom, which is a weird bird, right?
23:35 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, I don't, I always struggle with that.
23:37 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I did that to be ironic.
23:38 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was coming out of my mouth, I'm like, oh, but like, if you develop early,
23:43 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the same set of problems.
23:46 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_01]: What happened in your case is that the majority had, right?
23:49 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you could imagine red red wine being the taunt to the one girl who had started her period, except you happened to be at least as you thought in your social group.
24:05 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_01]: The odd girl.
24:05 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_03]: And then maybe there were girls that hadn't, but they were just joining the in group to taunt me because it would protect them against being taunted.
24:13 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Because like what no one's fact checking.
24:15 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
24:16 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
24:16 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, they're liars, right.
24:18 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's all about in group out group.
24:20 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, and I think fast forward to freshman year in high school when I'm on the cross country team.
24:24 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And there was the one guy.
24:25 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He was fast as hell, so probably nobody gave him any grief.
24:31 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_01]: But he very clearly was behind everybody else in terms of puberty.
24:37 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And that probably made him super freaking insecure.
24:40 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas three years before that, I was the one who was insecure.
24:43 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Kids suck middle school sucks.
24:44 --> 24:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just nobody wants to be the out group.
24:46 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry to hear that.
24:47 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I wish you had a more positive.
24:49 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_03]: It's okay.
24:51 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So she is.
24:52 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_03]: I got my period.
24:53 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it happened.
24:54 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, and now have it forever.
24:55 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess so jokes on me and all of them in kind.
24:58 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_03]: We're on such a rush, but turns out it's a really, it's a drag.
25:01 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but you won't have it forever, right?
25:02 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank goodness.
25:03 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have that.
25:03 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Are we going to have the,
25:05 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, you know, I'm associated with the menopause women.
25:08 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
25:08 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
25:08 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_03]: We're there.
25:09 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, but it's really interesting that you bring that up because we put so much weight as in womenhood about like getting your first period, what your men are and like the idea that you finally become this woman, but we never talk about losing your period.
25:24 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_03]: We never talk about menopause with the same level of like celebration.
25:28 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a joke.
25:29 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but now I think as my generations aging up in my cohorts aging up, we are starting to give more of a celebratory context to menopause and like we're done.
25:40 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_03]: You're free.
25:40 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_03]: We're finally done.
25:42 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And we're allowed to like talk about it more, which feels like really healthy and really like powerful for women.
25:48 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_03]: So there you go.
25:50 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll stop talking about it now because it's weird.
25:51 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_03]: It makes company, but there's something there.
25:55 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's trauma.
25:58 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like bullies and trauma.
26:00 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Stupid you before me.
26:01 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Stupid you before you.
26:02 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I can never listen to that song.
26:03 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I like my heartbeat's fast right here.
26:05 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_01]: What about other you before me?
26:07 --> 26:07 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't really know.
26:08 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_01]: They have one I can't help falling in love.
26:09 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
26:11 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_01]: They have a few of them, but not just like the girl that's been in my face.
26:15 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_03]: spit in my face.
26:17 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Dude.
26:18 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_03]: because I didn't get my parents were brutal.
26:21 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
26:23 --> 26:27 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I came up on top, I think, in that dynamic.
26:27 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's, did you ever listen to the, yo, is this racist podcast still on?
26:32 --> 26:33 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
26:33 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Andrew T, the comedian, one of the host of it, he has a joke that he used to use all the time.
26:37 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Boston is the city where a white person could be hate crime by another white person.
26:42 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
26:43 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Cause you're not the white, I don't know, maybe I cut that out, but.
26:45 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll say your name.
26:46 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll say your name right now.
26:48 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's Nelson, I hear him.
26:50 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh shit.
26:50 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I think about the girl that's been in my face.
26:52 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And now at the time was like, oh, this girl's awful.
26:56 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But now I look back and like I wonder what her life was like.
26:58 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It was wrong.
26:59 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I wonder what was going on.
27:01 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_02]: It was hurting so much.
27:02 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
27:03 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I like have a lot of empathy for her now, mainly because like I turned out okay, and I can't say.
27:08 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure she did.
27:10 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Damn.
27:11 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So.
27:12 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, boy.
27:12 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's move on.
27:13 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We had a lesson.
27:14 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_01]: This is rough.
27:14 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's middle out of it.
27:16 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_03]: You really start to find your people a little bit more.
27:19 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_03]: You start to find yourself more.
27:21 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're talking about fourteen to seventeen.
27:23 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_03]: We're in high school now.
27:25 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Pure groups are still super influential.
27:28 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_03]: You start really experimenting with risky behaviors.
27:31 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what your job as an adolescent is to do is to challenge authority, take risks, make mistakes.
27:37 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_03]: And hopefully you're doing that in a supportive nurturing environment that you have a good safe social safety net in place.
27:44 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_03]: That when you make mistakes, you have caring adults and caring peers that help you course correct.
27:50 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I for sure had that.
27:52 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I had a friend group that was very formative to who I am as an adult during this time that we we got into some trouble.
28:01 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I've mentioned on previous episodes, maybe breaking into concert venues.
28:05 --> 28:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I've nodded towards a history of drugs.
28:09 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe.
28:09 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, Mom.
28:11 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think that the developmental influence of peer groups during this time, you can't overstate.
28:18 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I am actually, you're gonna hate me for doing this, but I'm nodding a whole album for this developmental window.
28:25 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
28:26 --> 28:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any guesses what it would be?
28:28 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I ask for a hint, is it an album from this era?
28:32 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, as opposed to, it's not like a call back.
28:35 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Crosby still's a Nash from this era.
28:38 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but that's a good insight.
28:40 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Crosby still's a Nash, like, you know, four-way street, but it's communal experience, not just your, so it needs to be something that your friend group was into.
28:50 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
28:51 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
28:52 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have a fund as soon as I say you're gonna you're gonna know and that would be sublime for the answer for what is sublime for the answer free to so interestingly from came out in the era that would have been our early adolescence really like it's funny because like I heard it as a middle schooler so cow yeah you probably didn't hear it until he was already dead
29:12 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because the blinds, the blind came out and that's what turned me on to sublime.
29:15 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I went back and listened to Forty ounces and realized it's awesome.
29:19 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Awesome album.
29:20 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I think if you're going to pull a clip, I'd pull Scarlett Bagonia's as a clip because it's got a great full-died cover.
29:26 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a dead song.
29:27 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good.
29:28 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I like how cute.
29:28 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's like a good then intersectional venn diagram with like my development is like that kind of grateful dead stuff.
29:46 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_09]: I knew right away
29:57 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_03]: me and my friends listen to for the answers to freedom so much that we meet people from other towns to hang out with like other friend groups and be like, oh, right.
30:06 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_03]: All you guys listen to is for the answers whenever we be like, well, let's listen to music.
30:10 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_03]: It would always be for the answers to freedom.
30:12 --> 30:16 [SPEAKER_03]: There was never it was never a second choice and not even the other sublime out.
30:16 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_03]: No, always for the answer.
30:18 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That's funny.
30:18 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes there was never before that.
30:22 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I can't think of it right now.
30:24 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one.
30:24 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:25 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
30:25 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the first album.
30:26 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a between the self titled.
30:29 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_01]: There's one called Robin Hood.
30:30 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Robin the Hood.
30:30 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:31 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Which is a great album.
30:31 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is the like experimental with other samples and stuff.
30:35 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:36 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, for the answer freedom is so iconic in my development.
30:39 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_03]: We listened to that morning new to night.
30:41 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:42 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it was just constant in my friend's money car.
30:44 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll drive around.
30:45 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.
30:46 --> 30:47 [SPEAKER_03]: It was awesome.
30:48 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So the answer everybody would expect me to say for this era would be like sublime or battery legend or less than Jake or Incubus one of the other rock bands I was listening to this one was actually tough because I kind of have two chapters to high school.
31:02 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like I was really into garage at the beginning Allison chains and I mentioned sound garden as an eighth grader to and then I became more into punk and scones stuff.
31:10 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going with in a different direction when I was focusing on that individual insight of county blue cars.
31:18 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm coming at this from a different direction.
31:20 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You probably don't know the song, maybe you do.
31:46 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you know the song?
31:48 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to say, is it panic at the disco?
31:50 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Panic at the disco did not exist.
31:52 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:52 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Also panic at the disco is not a pop.
31:54 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
32:09 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason I chose this song, Link when they did you was not my favorite band.
32:13 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I liked Blink when they did too.
32:15 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a Blink album.
32:17 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I have Cheshire Cat as Blink.
32:19 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Not Blink when they did too.
32:20 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_01]: They hadn't been forced to change their name yet.
32:21 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_03]: But they have to change their name.
32:23 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of them were some other artists named Blink already, right?
32:26 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, okay.
32:27 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But these are home town guys.
32:29 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We were early adopters on Blink, right?
32:32 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Like,
32:33 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_01]: one of my friends older sisters dated one of the guys because they went to high school because they're in the next town over basically they're there they're from Poway which I'm in San Diego but they're the next if you go to two far north to San Diego that it stops being San Diego you get to where they're from David someone in Blink allegedly from that was what he would tell my best friend dated and he had this older like
32:59 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_01]: sister.
32:59 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_01]: She was probably six years.
33:00 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_01]: She was this like super cool or sister.
33:03 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So I believe it kind of.
33:05 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_01]: One of my high school friends mom dated Tom weights.
33:08 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's so cow's wild.
33:10 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, these guys were basically home town boys, right?
33:13 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So there was something about and Blink one age.
33:15 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_01]: She was not my favorite band.
33:17 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I was more into maybe like some of the more, you know, bad religion punk side of the Scott punk stuff for sublime, but it was very communal.
33:25 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like all of my friends were listening to this record at the same time.
33:28 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Oftentimes, together in the car, this is like, ninety ninety nine.
33:32 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So, call it towards the end of high school.
33:35 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_01]: This song in particular, I'm about to go to a way to college.
33:39 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I have a long-term girlfriend.
33:41 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not
33:42 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_01]: going to be going where I'm going like and so there was all this emotions that was in this we're all in this together kind of junior year and then later senior year thing that this albums all wrapped up and so even if it's not one of the hits or whatever from that album this song just hits an emotional cord that has to do with my friend group and some of those people I'm still friends with and it's kind of cool you know
34:05 --> 34:26 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's good job guys hometown boys right and this does speak to both of our choice to speak to the developmental window that we're in here in this middle adolescence that friend groups matter community matters romantic relationships start to matter in a more serious way than like an elementary or middle school relationship these feel like
34:26 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, when you say your first girlfriend, you're not talking about the crush you had in fourth grade, like you held hands with that one time.
34:33 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_03]: You're talking about like this high school girlfriend, high school boyfriend, right?
34:37 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_03]: As your first like formative relationship that meant something to your development, and that's very common.
34:43 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And those patterns, even if those relationships don't withstand time,
34:48 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_03]: The foundation that you build does withstands like when you realize this is what friendship is.
34:52 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_03]: This is what romance is.
34:53 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_03]: This is what love should feel like even if it is maladaptive.
34:58 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
34:58 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And it sticks with you.
34:59 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's weird because my high school girlfriend didn't really listen to Blink when he used to, but all my friends did.
35:03 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So kind of a different and I'm friends.
35:06 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I know them more than I know her.
35:07 --> 35:08 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I haven't seen her forever.
35:08 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just thing.
35:23 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, cool.
35:24 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_01]: What do we got next?
35:24 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_01]: We got a couple more, right?
35:25 --> 35:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we have a couple more.
35:26 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_03]: So laid out a lesson.
35:28 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_03]: So now that we're starting to call this emerging adulthood hood and more, kind of, that's how I quantify it emerging adulthood.
35:34 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's like, eighteen to twenty five.
35:35 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like the college years, um, definitely an age of identity exploration where you're trying on different versions of yourself to see what fits in the real world.
35:44 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_03]: Like you've tried things in the little Petri dish of your high school.
35:47 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_03]: And now you're like taking that personality, you're taking that identity.
35:50 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_03]: and like putting it out in the world and seeing if it works.
35:54 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of instability during this time is a really self-focused age feeling like you're in between being a kid in adult.
36:03 --> 36:04 [SPEAKER_03]: There's lots of possibilities.
36:05 --> 36:06 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't yet have
36:07 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, for biological men, you don't have like full frontal lobe development yet.
36:11 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Biological women are pretty cooked at this point.
36:14 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
36:14 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_03]: But a biological man's brain is going to be, make riskier decisions in these moments in eighteen to twenty five.
36:22 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_03]: You're not really solid on your feet yet, but you're getting there.
36:25 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
36:26 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_03]: So I have like, this is the one song of my list that you might not know or might not ever heard of, but have you ever heard of a band called the reindeer section?
36:34 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_03]: No.
36:35 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, do you know of balance of action?
36:38 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
36:39 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know of, um, sort of chamber pop?
36:43 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, Arab strap, the snow patrol model.
36:47 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
36:49 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_03]: The reindeer section was a super group.
36:53 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_03]: of all those bands.
36:55 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_03]: So Gary light body of the snow patrol set up the super group and it's like there's like thirty people in this group of and those are just the most notable bands that you you would probably know, but all of Bella Sebastian all of the snow patrol
37:13 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_03]: the Wendy's the month and the mirror like all of these Scottish indie rock bands you can see there's a great promotional photo from two thousand two which shows all of they would dress and like kind of cost to me like they were like a choir right
37:32 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_01]: This is wild.
37:32 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
37:33 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_03]: It's so good.
37:34 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So there are two albums.
37:36 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_03]: This song is called, if I fell, it's from their first album.
37:42 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not, it's not the Beatles.
37:44 --> 37:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have, can we listen to it?
37:46 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
37:46 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's on the second album.
37:47 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Son of Evil reindeer.
37:48 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Son of Evil reindeer.
37:49 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great, great album art, everybody.
37:51 --> 37:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a cave drawing on a wicked looking reindeer.
37:55 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_03]: If I fell or something, is that what it's called?
37:57 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I might have read it.
37:58 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Where I fall.
37:58 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Where I fall.
38:00 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Where I fall in love with you, no, so it's not the Beatles, you're totally right, not the Beatles.
38:26 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't listened to that for years.
38:29 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like such a power I love it so much and that song so where I fall from the reindeer section is like
38:38 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_03]: It's more stripped down than the rest of the album.
38:40 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_03]: The album's really, really orchestral.
38:42 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's basically Gary Lightbody Solo, right?
38:45 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just playing guitar.
38:47 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't feel supergroup, right?
38:48 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one guy.
38:49 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But some of the others, I've encouraged, you love this album because it's big and it's core and the lyrics are really intricate.
38:59 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_03]: But this song is more stripped down.
39:02 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_03]: like many suburban white women during this time of my life.
39:06 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I studied abroad in Ireland and that's where I got interested in the snow patrol, interested in like Damian Rice and now the Ranger section.
39:12 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the kind of iteration of that.
39:15 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_03]: And I also
39:17 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_03]: personal, some personal lore.
39:19 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_03]: I like fell in love hard when I was over there with someone that is not my current husband.
39:25 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a very real, like passionate love.
39:30 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I came home.
39:31 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Like that was it.
39:33 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just over.
39:34 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_03]: It was just over.
39:35 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Like
39:36 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_01]: way, but mutually you had a relationship they fell in love with you too.
39:38 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wow.
39:39 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_03]: We're like in it like hard and we knew that there was a shelf life.
39:43 --> 39:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think I was more in it than him, but this is a difference.
39:46 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like you're there for a year or semester.
39:49 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
39:50 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_03]: It was from a different country.
39:52 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, and we just locked in.
39:55 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_03]: We even tried to break up when we were there because we're like, what's the point of doing this?
39:58 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_03]: But like even when we broke up, we would always just literally bump into each other on the street.
40:02 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we're just being like, magnitude to each other.
40:04 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_03]: And then I went home.
40:06 --> 40:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And I listened to the song on repeat on the way home and sobbed.
40:11 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Just sobbed in that part.
40:13 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
40:13 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_03]: just sobbed and even now listening to it like I don't have regrets towards that like I don't wish that that worked out and wish my life was different in any capacity like I'm very content with how that worked but this song like scratches that this idea that like you can have something so powerful and so profound and then it just kind of goes away and you just have to move on and it was really forwarded for me especially during that time and it's just like a fucking beautiful song
40:40 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really nice.
40:41 --> 40:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So listeners the you're hearing what different than what I'm hearing because I didn't pipe in the song like the her other examples.
40:50 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not I'm not I'm piping in.
40:51 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I use your red red wine or whatever.
40:54 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like she just had me listen to the entire song and you're not you didn't hear the entire song because I'm trying not to not to do that.
41:00 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You should go listen to it and they'll get the streaming revenue and stuff.
41:04 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it's super beautiful.
41:05 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_03]: The best part about the song is when the reason I made you listen to a whole thing.
41:09 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for indulging me Mark.
41:11 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like the repetitive and the rumination about it.
41:14 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's a lot of the same lyrics over and over again.
41:18 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_03]: And that really spoke to my mindset as I was like sobbing in the Amsterdam airport with like a broken heart.
41:25 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So
41:25 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we're learning, we're learning a lot more about my like development as a musical taste and we're learning a lot more about you.
41:34 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, like, like, like, like a little more for sure.
41:38 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_03]: And my students are going to love it.
41:40 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_03]: They love the vature lore.
41:41 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, laid out a lesson slash emerging adulthood for me.
41:45 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The answer that the listeners already know would be like Jimmy World.
41:48 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
41:48 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Or minimalism like fancy stuff.
41:52 --> 41:53 [SPEAKER_01]: This is where it became a professional, right?
41:53 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Like college grad school.
41:57 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_01]: This era starts.
41:59 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually technically started college when I was seventeen.
42:03 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So this era starts with me in college and ends.
42:07 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still in high red.
42:10 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm twenty five years old.
42:11 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_01]: What am I in a master's degree?
42:13 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've started a doctor at that point.
42:15 --> 42:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I've started my doctor at so.
42:16 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, tough guy.
42:17 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So I went with something though that is just like a mess of all the things in my head at that point.
42:24 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is another
42:26 --> 42:29 [SPEAKER_01]: This predates this era, this music, this cannot be late nineties.
42:29 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a nineties exclusively nineties band, which nobody's really heard of.
42:33 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody knows about.
42:34 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not a communal experience.
42:36 --> 42:40 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a solo experience, except that I did, you know, share them with a few people.
42:43 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_01]: which, if my wife's listening to this, her eyes are rolling hard because she knows like, MoxyFruvis has been something I listened to a lot, especially in that era.
42:51 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_01]: They're a Canadian band.
42:52 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_01]: They came out around when Barrenake had ladies came out, but they didn't really hit in America for some reason.
42:58 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew them.
42:59 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's because they have like, they're kind of a folk rock band.
43:03 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_01]: But they have,
43:05 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Occupella songs and so my scene in college Occupella like people be covering them and stuff.
43:11 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how I first heard of them, but they're funny.
43:14 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_01]: They're political though.
43:15 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Canadian politics or some of it.
43:17 --> 43:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like they.
43:18 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not like all can't can at a fun.
43:20 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Like as loonies and Tunis.
43:23 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know what is that a reference to.
43:25 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, buddy, it's like the Canadian currency, like a one dollar coin is called the looney at two.
43:30 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know that.
43:31 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:32 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_01]: See, I grew up very, very far away from the world.
43:34 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:34 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, yeah, they're talking like, like, joke songs, making fun of the health care financing.
43:39 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
43:40 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Just on that.
43:40 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, well, yeah.
43:42 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, definitely.
43:43 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a song called Michigan, Malaysia.
43:49 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm in the machine, I'm in the machine
44:13 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Super random, I chose that one just because it's kind of a banger with the electric banjo and the harmonies and the weird hip-hop beat with the crank snare.
44:21 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just sort of a summary of a lot of the noise in my head and that area.
44:25 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, not the classical music, right?
44:27 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Not the grad school stuff as much as like vocal harmonies and kind of folky influence and kind of not froggy but kind of weird surprising things that just feels like it kind of summarizes my early adulthood.
44:41 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that it's cool like in when we talked about middle adolescents both of us picked music that like spoke to community.
44:48 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_03]: But in this stage of emerging adulthood, we're both picking music that is really insular and really just about us and our experience as individuals.
44:56 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty representative of that developmental window.
44:59 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
44:59 --> 45:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm also wondering is there like beef between Michigan and Canada?
45:03 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so know the mission in militia.
45:04 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like what's that political stuff.
45:07 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of their political commentary is all about like Canadian randomness, but no, that's an American thing.
45:12 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So the Michigan militia in the nineties, this song's nineteen ninety seven, but I think this was earlier than that was a bunch of like for lack of a better term like gun nuts.
45:20 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they were a sessionist.
45:23 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_01]: They might still exist.
45:23 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so, though, like in Michigan and the woods of Michigan, they got a bunch of guns together and they were like,
45:28 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_01]: like far right libertarian like how did we don't defer to the authority of the United States.
45:34 --> 45:48 [SPEAKER_01]: We are an independent like libertarian for the militia like that's what they were doing in the the nineties like an armed militia in the woods in the late nineties feels quaint relative to what that would mean in twenty twenty five.
45:48 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, the Michigan militia was definitely these guys are from Toronto though.
45:52 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's
45:53 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, in striking distance of Michigan militia, it's probably where they like, was it in terms of Toronto.
46:02 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Terrentarians, that's not it.
46:04 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Torontoians.
46:05 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
46:06 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_03]: It's concern of people of Toronto that like the Michigan militia's gonna like come after them and take their affordable health care.
46:13 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Canada does not have the same gun culture we do.
46:15 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
46:15 --> 46:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So no one does.
46:16 --> 46:18 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's like the point possibly.
46:18 --> 46:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
46:18 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_03]: So I were doomed.
46:19 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and they I mean, they're the whole song is from the perspective of someone writing home from the militia and it's like all these like
46:28 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_01]: racialized languages.
46:29 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, like, they're really demonizing the guys in the Michigan militia.
46:32 --> 46:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll put it that way.
46:33 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, we both have been like weird deep cuts.
46:36 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Like super deep cuts.
46:38 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
46:39 --> 46:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
46:39 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We got one more category.
46:40 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm more category.
46:41 --> 46:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We are not really in that many more categories.
46:44 --> 46:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's so front-loaded.
46:45 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Like we got two or three left in our lives.
46:49 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And the next one is really hard to pin to one song because it's a huge window of time.
46:54 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're talking about early adulthood, which is typically like, twenty five to forty.
46:58 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And then after that, we get late adulthood that's four to sixty.
47:02 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And then death and dying essentially.
47:04 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, there's one more.
47:05 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're doing late adulthood because we're too barely in it.
47:08 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_03]: We're so young.
47:09 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard
47:11 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_01]: The song, yeah, I have not that heard the song that will represent my mental illness, probably going to be red bread wine again.
47:16 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Jesus.
47:17 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, link a full circle moment.
47:18 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
47:19 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
47:19 --> 47:28 [SPEAKER_03]: So early adulthood, twenty five to forty, you're establishing careers, you're establishing lasting long-term romantic relationships.
47:28 --> 47:31 [SPEAKER_03]: You're establishing family and children if that's what you want.
47:32 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe you're, yeah, like I said, you're getting married, maybe you're getting married and then divorce, right?
47:36 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Twenty five to forty is huge stretch of time.
47:39 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_03]: We think as kids, this is the time we get to plateau and just coast, but we know on the late end of early adulthood, there is no plateauing.
47:47 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_03]: There is no coasting.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_01]: You're working your ass.
47:49 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_03]: You're working to establish yourself and there's always challenges.
47:54 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Also towards the end of this time, you might be starting to take care of your parents as they get older and take care of your kids.
48:01 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_03]: So especially as we get to the tail end of early adulthood into middle adulthood, just for you to sixty.
48:08 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_03]: We become what they call the sandwich generation that you're taking care of your kids and you're taking care of your parents.
48:13 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you're in the caregiver meat of a sandwich.
48:18 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_03]: But for early adulthood, I'm choosing to focus on the early end of it.
48:22 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_03]: So probably twenty five to thirty.
48:25 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_03]: But the song I picked that I listened to a lot during this period.
48:27 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think just like gives me good vibes as I move into this developmental window is do you realize by the flaming lips?
48:56 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_03]: which is one of my favorite flaming lip songs and it's really affirming about the power of positivity and like self affirmation.
49:04 --> 49:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Since the last time we talked about the flaming lips, you know, I did see them, right?
49:07 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
49:08 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_01]: They played that.
49:08 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_03]: And they must have played the song.
49:09 --> 49:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And we talked about that in our mailbag episode, but awesome.
49:13 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
49:14 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Why?
49:15 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Say more.
49:15 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Say more.
49:16 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of reasons that I love the song.
49:18 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of like really great core memories I have where our flaming lips concerts, especially when I first met my husband and we first started hanging out more and more.
49:25 --> 49:28 [SPEAKER_03]: It would be like in those venues and they were really lovely moments.
49:29 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_03]: We had a really influential friend that since passed away that really loved the song and this was kind of like his mantra almost and it just reminds me to kind of live my best life in his honor in some ways when I listen to it and I just think it's a great song and it lifts me up in a way that like gives me power in sad times.
49:50 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm into it.
49:51 --> 49:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Did they play this when you?
49:53 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_03]: You might not remember.
49:53 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't remember St.
49:54 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Louis FM would tell me if I looked at it.
49:56 --> 49:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember.
49:58 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I was really distracted by what I was looking at during that show.
50:01 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the first goal in a giant moving inflatable characters.
50:06 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_03]: That is quite a sarcasm.
50:07 --> 50:08 [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
50:08 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So the answer that a podcast listener's going to think I'm going to say is like Nickel Creek or something which would be inaccurate.
50:15 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So many things I could have done here.
50:17 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But what I found was a lot of it while I still from twenty five to forty-ish was listening to new music.
50:25 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of back going to.
50:27 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of songs I could think of from the eighties of the seventies of the nineties that would represent this phase of my life.
50:32 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going pretty far way back with this and this is not a band I ignore.
50:36 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We do talk about them sometimes.
50:56 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_10]: Let's touch a good song.
51:05 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Is that your favorite feel song?
51:07 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if one of them are hit series on music reading remember I played and your bird can sing.
51:14 --> 51:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you loved that.
51:14 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Which I might be one of my favorite songs ever by anybody.
51:18 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the reason I chose this one and the reason I chose the Beatles even though it's like maybe kind of obvious and obviously I had heard them before this point.
51:26 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, the song is so damn good.
51:28 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a good love song.
51:29 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I love George Harrison.
51:30 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He's probably my favorite Beatles.
51:32 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_03]: You've mentioned favorite beetle.
51:33 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And the song is a love song.
51:36 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I associate with this most recent phase of adulthood is emotions and feeling emotions more real and not hiding from them and sharing them, whether it's love, like this is romantic love, which, you know, very happily married, but also I shared the beetles with my kids, right?
51:56 --> 52:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I did a lot of deep diving into the Beatles through the, you know, that sort of started in the emerging adulthood phase, but happened a lot.
52:02 --> 52:17 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the era of my life where I was listening to like anthology and I was wanting to play them all and deconstructing it all and then, again, sharing it with my kids and like having my five-year-old kid be able to identify, you know,
52:18 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Some other adult is like surprised that he's like, oh, that's a pulse song when we hear it like, if you can identify them by voice and like stuff like that and just I just feel feeling so much more than when I was younger in this era.
52:31 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of that is parenthood, but it's maturity and confidence in just life skills that this song has a lot of feels to it in a way that
52:40 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_01]: musically maybe, and your bird can sing or some of the other ones got to get you into my life like hit harder.
52:46 --> 52:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it just works.
52:48 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_03]: You gotta feel those feelings.
52:50 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Gotta feel them.
52:51 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_01]: This was fun.
52:52 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_03]: This was fun.
52:52 --> 52:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I learned stuff about you.
52:53 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of it bums me out about the suburban Boston little girl.
52:59 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I get so much power from remembering those things.
53:02 --> 53:05 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think of like, what a waste of time that was imagined.
53:05 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine that that's
53:07 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And you get through it, right?
53:08 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
53:08 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And like it makes some things are harder to get through than others.
53:10 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_03]: And like the hard things like make us stronger and I'm thankful for them.
53:14 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to.
53:15 --> 53:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I have a blessed life.
53:16 --> 53:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want it.
53:17 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a feel sad or bad.
53:19 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it all is part of growth.
53:20 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So can we check in in fifteen years and and add the the next song for still friends.
53:24 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
53:33 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Baxter and hosted and produced by Mark Poppinney.
53:40 --> 53:47 [SPEAKER_03]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditchimal.com and give us a follow on social media.
53:48 --> 53:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Never mind the music is also part of the Laura Hounds Network.
53:51 --> 53:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Please join the conversation on their Discord server.
53:55 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening.