Is this the most “L.A.” band of the 2000s? This week, somewhere between the sacred silence and sleep is System of a Down’s 2001 rock hit “Toxicity.” Nichole talks us through the idea of cognitive dissonance, and ends up aiming her sights in the general direction of this band, while Mark takes us through the cool tempo changes of this song that would make the math nerds proud. The rare NTM debate can be found in the middle of this episode!
Other music heard in this episode: Aerosmith - “Dream On”, Letters to Cleo - “Here and Now”, Dropkick Murphys - “I’m Shipping Up to Boston”, The Macrotones - “Nothing is the Same”, Jan and Dean - “Surf City”, Jackson Browne - “Take it Easy”, Minutemen - “This Ain’t No Picnic”, Cypress Hill - “Insane in the Brain”, System of a Down - “Chop-Suey!”, System of a Down - “Prison Song”, System of a Down - “Spiders”, System of a Down - “Aerials”, System of a Down - “B.Y.O.B.”, System of a Down - “Radio/Video”, Franz Ferdinand - “Take Me Out”, The Beatles - “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds”, System of a Down - “Chic ‘n’ Stu”, System of a Down - “Question!”, Taylor Swift - “Tolerate It”, Taylor Swift - “Closure”, Red Hot Chili Peppers - “Veronica”, Paul Simon - “Hurricane Eye”, Elliott Carter - “String Quartet No. 1 (Julliard String Quartet)”
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00:00 --> 00:00 [SPEAKER_15]: I love that song.
00:01 --> 00:02 [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes I'm driving.
00:02 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_15]: I like to conduct music when I'm driving.
00:05 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
00:05 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_15]: Do you do that?
00:06 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Am I with one hand?
00:07 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, with one hand.
00:08 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_12]: Not with both hands.
00:08 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_15]: And I like to cue people in.
00:10 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_12]: But see the thing is you need to do the cues you need both hands, right?
00:13 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, sometimes I have to.
00:14 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_12]: You conduct the time, everybody.
00:16 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_12]: You conduct the time and also certain articulations with your right hand.
00:19 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_12]: And you have to, you have to, are you show dynamics, you, you quiet everybody down with your left hand.
00:24 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_12]: I love it.
00:24 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm so good at that.
00:25 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_12]: You need then one of those cars that the steering column can be controlled by your legs.
00:30 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_12]: So you could actually conduct a long call.
00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_12]: So I can use my cue to drive on.
00:33 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_12]: And when you listen to the music on the radio, like if you don't cue them, they don't know how to do it.
00:37 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_12]: They won't come in.
00:38 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_12]: They won't.
00:38 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_15]: And then everyone suffers.
00:40 --> 00:46 [SPEAKER_12]: And that's the thing like following along on the radio, like most people just listen to the radio and they're following the music, but if Nicole's conducting, the music has to be there to happen, like, great, if you're not reading the music, right?
00:46 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_12]: If you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you don't, if you
01:07 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_14]: Hey, I'm Nicole and I'm Mark and this is never mind the music.
01:11 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_14]: What are we going to talk about today, Mark?
01:14 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_12]: If I say a city, is there a musical artist that you immediately associate with it?
01:19 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_12]: So like, Seattle.
01:21 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_15]: Nevada.
01:21 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
01:23 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.
01:23 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_12]: Chicago.
01:25 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_15]: Chicago.
01:26 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
01:26 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_12]: Chicago, Kansas, 30.
01:28 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_12]: You could also say like Kanye West, or like Muddy Waters, I guess.
01:31 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
01:32 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_12]: New Orleans.
01:33 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_15]: Lou Reed.
01:34 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_15]: I know that's not right, but that's the first thing I thought of.
01:36 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_12]: I like- Is Lou Reed from New Orleans?
01:38 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_12]: I have no idea.
01:39 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Lou Armstrong, I would say, like old school genius, right?
01:42 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Atlanta.
01:43 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_15]: Lauren Hill.
01:44 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_12]: This is what I think- Lauren Hill's from like, I thought she was from like Jersey.
01:47 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know, I'm all over the place.
01:48 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_12]: I would say like, outcast.
01:50 --> 01:50 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, sure.
01:50 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_12]: Something like that, right?
01:51 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_12]: So they're in hip-hop.
01:52 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_15]: Atlanta.
01:53 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Right, but, so you, I'm going somewhere with this possibly.
01:58 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
01:58 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Boston.
01:59 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_15]: Drop cake, Murphy's.
02:00 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_12]: Drop cake, for so.
02:02 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to make you zoom out.
02:03 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_15]: Largest to Cleo.
02:04 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_12]: Can you go recent decades starting with 60s or 70s?
02:09 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_12]: What is the Boston artist from each decade?
02:11 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, my gosh.
02:13 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_12]: You've lived here for a couple decades.
02:16 --> 02:18 [SPEAKER_15]: It's a 1900s since 1900s.
02:18 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_12]: So, aerosmith, you're planning.
02:20 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_12]: So, yeah, call them the 70s.
02:21 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_15]: 70s, okay.
02:39 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Don't kick, you could call them 90s or 90s.
02:41 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_15]: I'll say, I'm going to say Erasmus, 80s to 90s.
02:45 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_15]: Letters to Cleo, 90s to 2000s.
02:49 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_15]: Which you might not know who they are, because you're not from here.
02:52 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_12]: But like you know, they have a cover if I want you to want me on one of the, like a soundtrack.
02:58 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm trying to think the original here and now or something is that them?
03:03 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe.
03:12 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_17]: I went to like some free shows when I was a teenager and they're good.
03:23 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, then we think 2000 to 2010 I'd say dropkick Murphy's
03:49 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_15]: 2010 to 2020 Boston Bands, I don't know, can we say it's like a dynamics.
03:56 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_12]: That's 2020.
03:57 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_15]: 2020, right?
03:59 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_12]: There's a few holes in there.
04:00 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_12]: What do we need?
04:01 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
04:01 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, there's bands that I was you go to say the podcast.
04:04 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I love a band called the macro tones.
04:07 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_15]: You would love the macro tones and they're like a Boston based band.
04:11 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_08]: Try to live my life, just try to make it right Try to live my life, just try to make it right Love it as the same, the same these days Love it as the same
04:29 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_15]: Well, these are small bands.
04:30 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_15]: They're just like, like, kind of a hitting band.
04:31 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_12]: Like who's the huge artist from Boston in the 2010s?
04:34 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a good question.
04:35 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_12]: Something we're forgetting, I think, right?
04:37 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, why don't you just tell me what you want me to say?
04:40 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_12]: No, I'm not talking about, I'm not the expert on Boston.
04:42 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Are you kidding me?
04:43 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm right.
04:43 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
04:43 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_12]: I got here and I had to immediately be like students, tell me who the Boston artist everybody knows.
04:48 --> 04:48 [UNKNOWN]: No.
04:48 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm gonna talk about Los Angeles.
04:50 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, that's fair.
04:50 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_12]: Not saying you go but Los Angeles.
04:52 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_12]: I did live in Los Angeles for a decade.
04:53 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_15]: We know.
04:54 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm not talking about Orange County.
04:58 --> 04:59 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
04:59 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_15]: Not the OC.
05:00 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_12]: The OC, not just the OC, the TV show or the area.
05:04 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_12]: So you need to be in Los Angeles County somewhere, which means either in the city limits or in neighboring communities ideally.
05:11 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_12]: So I'm going decade to decade.
05:14 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm gonna tell you not the most famous
05:18 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_12]: And this is objective truth.
05:20 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_12]: There isn't really any subjectivity here at all.
05:23 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_12]: 1960s.
05:37 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_15]: the Beach Boys.
05:38 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_12]: No.
05:39 --> 05:41 [SPEAKER_12]: And that's why.
05:41 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_12]: So first of all, some of you were thinking he's going to do the doors, maybe.
05:45 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_12]: But the doors aren't like an LA band that feels like they're from San Francisco.
05:49 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_12]: That's Jan and Dean.
05:50 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_12]: That is not the Beach Boys.
05:51 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_12]: And that's why it's the most Los Angeles artists from the 60s because it's a cheap imitation.
05:56 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_12]: No, so like, that song was written by Brian Wilson.
05:59 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, sounds like a beat boy song, but it is Jan and Dean.
06:03 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_12]: And there's something about the like LA spirit, but also the second version of it that still feels this sick of beat boy cover.
06:10 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_12]: No, but it was written for them by Brian Wilson.
06:14 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_12]: So it feels like the 1960s LA is still up and coming.
06:18 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_12]: It's still like not the center of the universe, but people want to be there, starting to get that, you know, a surf culture, but we're not the beat's poise.
06:25 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_12]: We're the second place, Jan and Dean.
06:27 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_12]: That has only a couple hits.
06:29 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_12]: 19, 70s, I'm going, Laurel Canyon scene.
06:34 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
06:35 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_12]: With the singer songwriters, you know, you've got vehicles, you've got Joni Mitchell, kind of incestuous, everybody sleeping with everybody, hopefully not literally incestuous game of throne style.
06:46 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And here we have Take It Easy, Jackson Brown.
07:03 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't let the sound of your own meals Happy praying
07:10 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_15]: That's one of my favorite lyrics ever written.
07:13 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_12]: Don't let the sound of your own wheels.
07:14 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
07:15 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_12]: I love it.
07:15 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's so great.
07:17 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_12]: Most famously an eagle song.
07:18 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_12]: But that's my point, right?
07:20 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_12]: It was written by Jackson Brown, who I think was one of their roommates at one point.
07:25 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_12]: It was just this post hippie, country slash rock and roll scene that people are all hanging out with everybody.
07:33 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Because somebody was even like,
07:34 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_12]: roommates with Rick James at that era.
07:36 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm trying to remember.
07:37 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
07:38 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_12]: It was just this whole and again, like I said everybody dating everybody and writing songs for each other collaboratively writing these songs together.
07:46 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm stealing your song.
07:47 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_15]: I was like, oh, I wrote this song.
07:48 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_15]: It's going to be better for you guys.
07:49 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_12]: It was like it.
07:50 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_12]: I wrote the song, let's both do it.
07:52 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_12]: And then we'll be one of us in like Jackson Brown did his version on his album and they did their version on their first album.
07:58 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_12]: There's a cool, I love that.
08:00 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_12]: And so it feels very LA, right?
08:02 --> 08:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Everybody live in the hills, kind of just so LA.
08:05 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, so 1980s, I could go with the sunset strip.
08:09 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that's the way everybody's thinking hair metal.
08:12 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_12]: Just on the outskirts of town, we have the hardcore punk thing.
08:17 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Mid 1980s, this is the minute men.
08:20 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_03]: this ain't no picnic
08:40 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_15]: So you know, you would think knowing what, you know, what my musical tastes that I don't like punk music.
08:45 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
08:46 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_15]: I actually really like punk music.
08:47 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_12]: OK.
08:48 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_15]: I really like it.
08:49 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_15]: And I think I'm going to make some hot-take connection that punk is just folk music with a different outfit on.
08:58 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_12]: And maybe a different tempo and a higher volume.
09:00 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, they're similarly simple, but not simplistic when it's done well, similarly counter cultural or contrary and yeah, that one, I chose that even though you do we could talk X or other black flag or whatever, but
09:16 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_12]: there's something about the minute men that like if you listen they have that double double album or they have that they're sort of magnum opus is double nickels on the dime and it's got like alternative rock and then harker punk that you think of when you think harker punk and just like doing whatever they want that really cuts against the expectations of what certainly what's going on in Hollywood with their metal bands, right?
09:39 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_12]: 1990s can't do snoop.
09:42 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_15]: I thought my not I thought that just because just because he doesn't want to he doesn't want to be on this podcast this time We'll get back in.
09:49 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_12]: I thought that you the Long Beach thing was just a little too I'm like I know it's technically Los Angeles County.
09:55 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_12]: We might be too far away from LA proper okay long beach So we're going cypressill and staying in the brain.
10:02 --> 10:02 [UNKNOWN]: Okay
10:08 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: That main frame I'll explain You're like me, you're going with it saying
10:23 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_15]: It's really, every after- Apparently, that's sort of version.
10:26 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_15]: Every clip you play, I'm always like, oh, it's so good.
10:28 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_15]: It's so good.
10:29 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_12]: It's so good.
10:30 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_12]: So there's something about that.
10:31 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_12]: And that are all.
10:32 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_12]: So we could talk red hot chili peppers or something.
10:35 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_15]: But it is insane clown posse, you fit in all of this.
10:38 --> 10:39 [SPEAKER_12]: Not Los Angeles.
10:39 --> 10:39 [SPEAKER_12]: No, okay.
10:39 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think so.
10:40 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_12]: I think they might be Midwest.
10:41 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I feel like that's there have like a Midwest thing.
10:44 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
10:44 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not a juggle-low cell.
10:47 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
10:47 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_12]: He's serious.
10:48 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_15]: Who's a veteran insane clown posse show?
10:50 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_12]: No, of you.
10:52 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
10:53 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_15]: should be come back to it or no, I have to talk about it really.
10:57 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_15]: So it was cool like from like a cultural observers standpoint, but I don't think it's for me.
11:01 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_12]: You weren't, you weren't, you didn't feel a part of the scene.
11:05 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_15]: No, I like felt scary.
11:06 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, well, okay.
11:07 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_12]: I think we should talk about it at another time.
11:08 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, let's talk about it at the moment.
11:10 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_12]: So this one, though, there's something about, you know, the style of hip-hop obviously feels very Los Angeles, but also the Latino rappers, there's something very unique about that that wouldn't be happening.
11:19 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I think of the hip-hop of the 80s.
11:22 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_12]: and that there was a lot of, for example, Puerto Rican influence, especially in the dance culture and engagement, but like the sort of shift that happened in the 90s of broadening of the, who was making hip-hop and who was, and that went as far as, you know, vanilla ice, stuff like that.
11:41 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Also, I thought Cyprus Hill was like emblematic not only of that moment, but of Los Angeles.
11:46 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_12]: brings us to the 2000s and 2010s, tune in to our next episode for the 2010s of who my answer for the most LA artist, the most LA artist of the 2000s.
11:55 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_12]: I know you think I'm going to go black eyed peas or maroon five or something missed out.
12:01 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I am going to go, system of a down.
12:32 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know how much I put on a little makeup I just got to pay the wait I just got to pay
12:36 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_12]: Sorry, I had to play that whole moment there.
12:37 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_12]: I hate it so much.
12:39 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, you hate this?
12:40 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, all right.
12:41 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_12]: I think you won't hate all of this.
12:43 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, at the beginning, I was like, oh, maybe I'd like sister to the job and then he starts with the scream and I'm like, no.
12:48 --> 12:49 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, and we're gonna get there.
12:49 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_12]: So to be clear, they're from Glendale, not technically Los Angeles, but it's just right there.
12:55 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_12]: It's like Glendale is closer to downtown Los Angeles than West LA is to down, like actual the Western side of LA is to downtown LA.
13:03 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_12]: So it's like the Brooklyn,
13:06 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
13:06 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
13:07 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe not as rich as Brookline, but like Brookline is actually pretty darn close to downtown LA relative to the far end of- You're like maybe the chocolate Dale.
13:15 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
13:15 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_12]: Rosalindale.
13:17 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_15]: It's more suburban.
13:18 --> 13:20 [SPEAKER_12]: It's technically, it's own city.
13:20 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it is.
13:21 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, all right.
13:22 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_12]: We're all seen.
13:23 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_12]: Cut out the geography lesson.
13:24 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
13:25 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_12]: So it's important.
13:27 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Why is this so LA?
13:28 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_12]: It's super aggressive and weird alternative metal.
13:32 --> 13:34 [SPEAKER_12]: And that makes, it's very Los Angeles, right?
13:34 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_12]: So think like we had in the previous decade I could have also gone with tool.
13:38 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
13:39 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_12]: And this is like a kind of next chapter of that story of the alternative metal that it's also very politically active despite the warm weather and the wealth in the city, right?
13:49 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_12]: So Serge Tonkin, the lead vocalist, primarily vocalist that is started a nonprofit with Tom Morello from Raising It's the Machine.
13:57 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
13:58 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Another band I could have chosen for the 90s.
14:00 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
14:00 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_12]: It just.
14:01 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_12]: It feels like very much a product of that place and that era.
14:06 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_12]: This is speaking of the politics.
14:07 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_12]: This is for example their song, Prison Song, which is the first song on the toxicity record.
14:25 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_12]: And I know you're going to feel this because you're about to do it to me, but like it's also very LA if we look back at the eagles in the Laurel Canyon.
14:42 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_12]: This band is literally come to blows with each other before and we could talk about it a little bit later, which is very LA to me for some of the other bands that have been there and I know you're like looking at me.
14:52 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_15]: Why are we doing this music?
14:55 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, I do.
14:57 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_12]: I think I can get you to like some of it.
14:59 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_15]: I like the message.
15:00 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_12]: Some of it is extreme, though.
15:02 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, it's just like we, yeah.
15:04 --> 15:05 [SPEAKER_12]: And that's a lot, right?
15:05 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_12]: For you, that's a lot.
15:06 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_12]: So also LA has the largest Armenian population in the world, except for the country of Armenia in West Asia.
15:16 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_12]: So in particular, Glendale.
15:18 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_12]: So there's something about that also that feel having lived there, kind of when they were at there.
15:23 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, that's cool.
15:24 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_12]: tail end of their heyday.
15:25 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_12]: It's like, oh yeah, it felt very LA to have this band of all Armenian-American dudes playing this really aggressive political medal.
15:32 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_15]: I've recently been learning as we hear about a lot about Armenian culture.
15:37 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_15]: I had a friend who's Armenian his dad passed away went to the funeral a little while ago, and the ritualistic...
15:44 --> 15:50 [SPEAKER_15]: stuff around for funerals and our meeting culture was really, really interesting and learned a lot about it.
15:50 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_12]: So I think you're going a lot of funerals probably in the culture is true.
15:54 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's a way to learn a lot.
15:56 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I think it's really important to to bear witness to grief and celebration and cultures.
16:03 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_15]: And just like I'm about to bear witness to you trying to get me to like some of it down.
16:07 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_12]: So, and I have no idea where you're going with this.
16:10 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_12]: We'll get back to it.
16:11 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_12]: Let's keep going.
16:12 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, all right.
16:13 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_12]: This whole new metal thing, the listener has heard me last season.
16:18 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_12]: I was talking shit about new metal in the context of doing incubus, which some people claim is new metal, which I loved.
16:23 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm like, they're not really new metal.
16:25 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_12]: And then we did a Lincoln park a couple months ago.
16:28 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm like, it's kind of new metal, but I like them too.
16:31 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_12]: And now here we are.
16:32 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_12]: And people talk about this band as being new metal.
16:34 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_12]: But I'm kind of like, ah, I don't know, because to me it's more progressive metal or alternative metal.
16:41 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_12]: They have the sort of new metal weird voice, like corn would have.
16:47 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_12]: But it doesn't have the hip hop influence really.
16:51 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_12]: It doesn't have the electronic influence or the funk influence.
16:54 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_12]: that you tend to get when you're talking about new metal, it's really a fusion genre.
17:00 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_12]: And this is much more like tool to me, progressive metal alternative metal, where it's like, has more in common with like prog rock or stuff like that.
17:08 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_12]: It's weird, but like, it's amazing.
17:11 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_12]: And the vocals, the two vocalists, so Serge Tankian is the lead vocalist, but then Darren Malakian was the one who would like to know.
17:18 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_12]: So, they're trying to have all the reasons.
17:20 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, he's the screenie, but also the like melodic, really high, almost punk rock sounding guy.
17:24 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_12]: And this band, we can talk about the new metal thing a little bit, but like, they also have just a hauntingness kind of like tool.
17:32 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_12]: And this is the first song I ever heard by them.
17:33 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_12]: This is spiders.
17:34 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
17:35 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe you don't like the screaming.
17:36 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_12]: They're going to build a prison, but this tune from their first record 1998.
17:41 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_07]: The spiders all in don't.
17:45 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_07]: The evening of the home.
17:49 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Dreams are made winding through my head.
18:03 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I like that quite a bit.
18:05 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
18:06 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_15]: It's just the other parts.
18:07 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_12]: Have you heard the areials?
18:08 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_15]: No.
18:09 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_12]: I guess I was kind of similar to them, though.
18:11 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_12]: I think I'm just being kind of having a bias.
18:14 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_12]: Should I pipe in areials real quick?
18:15 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_14]: The, maybe you're changing my mind.
18:17 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_12]: You've heard chop sui, right?
18:19 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_12]: Wake up.
18:19 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
18:20 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, okay.
18:21 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_12]: That song, I think of kind of as their signature song.
18:24 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not actually their biggest hit.
18:26 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_12]: Chop sui peaked at number 76.
18:29 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_12]: It's just really intense.
18:30 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_12]: I think maybe it's not for pop, but like, here's Ariel's, which actually was more successful, 55.
18:59 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_15]: it's very good.
19:00 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_15]: I'll admit that it's very good.
19:02 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_15]: I've heard that before, and I like it, I kept thinking of what the crowd that these shows must be like, and maybe for me, that's what I don't like.
19:13 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_15]: I love seeing live music when I'm right here.
19:16 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_12]: Reminds you have to sound calm and positive.
19:18 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_15]: I think like I think of being at the show and thinking, I wouldn't have a fun time with this concert.
19:23 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's probably dude forward music for the most part.
19:26 --> 19:28 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I feel like I'd be scared in the crowd.
19:28 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_12]: I think what you might be reacting to is they don't choose a lane really.
19:34 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_12]: And that's part of what I like about it.
19:35 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_12]: Like that song is like kind of heavy, but also there's beauty to it.
19:40 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_12]: But then their biggest hit actually is BYOB from 2005.
19:44 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_12]: And hypnotized was also a better hit than Chop Sui.
19:48 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_12]: But BYOB hit number 27.
19:50 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_12]: And what this is is just
19:53 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Massive contrast, there's just constant shifting of, even what style this is.
20:19 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_12]: But then...
20:23 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_09]: We'll come back to that.
20:29 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_12]: That's the same song.
20:31 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_15]: Imagine if, and maybe someone in the world has done this, you take the lyrics to that, and take the whole song, but instead of having the distorted guitar, you put like a synth in that same spot.
20:43 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
20:44 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_15]: It, it was sound, so it would sound like Swedish pop music, it was sound like Swedish pop music.
20:49 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_12]: It would be different, but I think that insane contrast and extremes on other side is part of their thing, right?
20:56 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_12]: And that feels very LA to me, but also very not Nicole.
20:59 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, so I bent LA, it's not for me.
21:02 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_12]: And I think, well, yeah, noted podcast episodes about it, I think part of the part of that extreme contrast is also why people associate it with new metal, because it's kind of like, it's over the top.
21:15 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_12]: But it doesn't stylistically have those traits, like when biscuit does or whatever.
21:19 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_12]: I want to talk about the song, toxicity specifically, not chop sui, though honestly the thing I want to talk about does happen in in chop sui as well.
21:31 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_12]: This is toxicity from their record toxicity from 2001.
21:56 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_08]: It's harder, it's harder, it's harder, And then there's the pretty part.
22:04 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_14]: And then there's the pretty part.
22:06 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_12]: It's the vocals are incredible in this.
22:08 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_12]: I bet.
22:09 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_12]: I know you may not like the style.
22:11 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't appreciate it though, for sure.
22:12 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_15]: Extremely impressing it live.
22:15 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_15]: That must be, you need a really solid instrument to be able to do that and be well-trained.
22:20 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_15]: You hear kids try to do it and you just think, oh, you're blowing out your voice.
22:24 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Sarah Chontkin wrote the words, but the music for this one is written by Darren Malakian and Shavo Adagian, who's the bass player, but apparently while they're recording, Darren, the guitarist, and John Domayon, who's the drummer, got into a fight, literally physical fight, Darren hit him with a microphone stand in the head.
22:43 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_12]: And apparently the drums to this that crazy drum part we just heard,
22:47 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_12]: was John the drummer making fun of Chavo going oh this is what you're like in doing the most like over the top ridiculous thing ever like as a date and then they're like keep it like so there's something like again very LA about these guys like can't get along but they're creating this cool music.
23:04 --> 23:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
23:05 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_12]: People definitely talk about this as new metal, but I think, you know, it's heavy metal.
23:11 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_12]: It's got kind of a wobbly voice, but I don't hear the electronic drum beats in the background.
23:15 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't hear rapping.
23:17 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Have you looked at the lyrics?
23:18 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_12]: No, I cannot figure this out for the life of me.
23:20 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_12]: I want to talk about tempo changes, but
23:23 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_12]: Give the lyrics a look and tell me if you can figure it out because when I was trying to figure it out like I saw references just looking up like what is this song eating seeds is a past time activities one of the lyrics refers to apparently Armenian culture.
23:38 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Eating sunflower seeds is a common thing to the point like it's a stylistic trait, almost cultural trait.
23:44 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_12]: It's in the video.
23:45 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_12]: They're eating sunflower seeds.
23:47 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_12]: The apparently the sacred silence of sleep line refers to Native American spirituality.
23:52 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_12]: But I, there's an interview where, Serge, I think mentioned it's actually about ADHD.
23:57 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, I have no idea what this is about.
23:58 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_12]: So listeners.
23:59 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, flashlight reveries caught in the headlights of a truck looking at life through the eyes of a
24:06 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's a lot of car and it's beautiful.
24:09 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_12]: The way he sings those lines is beautiful and haunting too.
24:11 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_12]: It's very Conversion software version 20.
24:15 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_15]: I thought like I'm looking at the lyrics the first lyrics is conversion software version 7.0 I was like, oh, that must be like a weird thing my computers.
24:22 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't realize that that's the lyric How interesting.
24:26 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_15]: I think that they were on drugs where they on drugs.
24:29 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know about that, but maybe
24:33 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_12]: So, I don't know, I think, again, like ADHD in there.
24:38 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's fair.
24:39 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_12]: I just keep that as a backdrop listeners.
24:42 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, I don't know, coming off of an episode where I was centrally focused on the lyrics when we did Tracy Chapman, not happening here because I cannot figure out I would love to tie them into my spiel about tempo changes.
24:54 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_12]: I can't.
25:14 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_12]: I do want to talk about tempo changes, but not just any.
25:18 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_12]: I want to talk about tempos that are related by a ratio.
25:21 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_12]: So we call these ready for bolded term in the textbook.
25:25 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
25:26 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_12]: A metric modulation.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_15]: Ooh, I do like that.
25:28 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_12]: So we know modulation already is a fancy pants way of talking about a key change.
25:34 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_12]: A metric modulation is when we change the tempo in a way that follows a kind of ratio.
25:40 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_12]: So for example,
25:41 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_12]: The simplest metric modulation that I can think of, for example, would be the quarter note of the previous tempo becomes the new half note.
25:51 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_12]: For example, you go from 1, 2, 3, 4, 2, 1, 3, 4, 5, 3, 4, double time, double time is a metric modulation.
26:01 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Half time is the opposite, slow it down.
26:04 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_12]: You would go from 1, 2, 3, 4, 2, 1, and 2, and, right.
26:10 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_12]: So like ADBPM, going to 1, 60 BPM.
26:13 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_12]: Times 2, double time metric modulation, 80 beats per minute to 40 BPM, half time, 50% metric budget.
26:21 --> 26:23 [SPEAKER_15]: Let's take a very skilled drummer to do this.
26:24 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_12]: Those metric modulations are easy.
26:25 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_12]: Ah, well, very good.
26:27 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes there's weirder ones.
26:28 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
26:28 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_12]: And not all tempo changes do that.
26:32 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_12]: And sometimes we get metric modulations that are complicated, like,
26:36 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_12]: We'll see later, like, dotted quarter equals triplet eighth, like weird math like that, but a common one would be, especially if you're in simple meter and you go to compound.
26:46 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_12]: You know that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, you could have 80 beats per minute going to 120 beats.
26:53 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's the story.
26:54 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I know that one.
26:55 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_12]: A quarter note equals dotted quarter.
26:56 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Ooh, so things are getting more complicated.
26:58 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_15]: Chicky, chicky.
26:59 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_12]: And this song has metric modulations, though it has two different types.
27:03 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_12]: They're not super complicated, but what's cool is the way they are used in the way they are seated earlier in the song.
27:10 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_12]: We see them grow before they actually happen.
27:13 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_12]: And so that's what I want to talk about.
27:14 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
27:14 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_12]: And I do want to just clarify with a couple of examples, not all tempo changes have a clearly observable ratio.
27:22 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_12]: So here's their song called Radio Video from 2005 that just has a slowdown.
27:28 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_12]: It does not have as far as I can tell like a mathematical relationship between these two tempos.
27:46 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_15]: He's just going to the reggae.
27:54 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm into it.
27:55 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_15]: It feels like Mr. Bungley kind of.
27:57 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Did you like the screaming?
27:59 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't like it because it didn't last long.
28:01 --> 28:06 [SPEAKER_15]: It was just enough to make me like, like to make me get go, which I know isn't the intention.
28:06 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_15]: But I'm definitely going to talk about cognitive justness.
28:09 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
28:09 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_12]: And the few minutes.
28:10 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_12]: You figured out.
28:10 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_12]: We're going to come back to you.
28:12 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_15]: I have it all sorted.
28:13 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_12]: Sweet.
28:13 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_12]: So here's another tempo change that is not a ratio.
28:16 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_12]: Just to slow down.
28:17 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_12]: This has a retard on dough.
28:18 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_12]: Do you know what that term means?
28:19 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think we're supposed to say that anymore.
28:21 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_12]: The R word.
28:22 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
28:24 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_12]: It means to slow down.
28:26 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_12]: Take me out by Franz Ferdinand, also from 2005.
28:29 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_11]: I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know,
28:56 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_15]: I love that song.
28:57 --> 28:58 [SPEAKER_15]: Sometimes I'm driving.
28:58 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_15]: I like to conduct music when I'm driving.
29:01 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
29:01 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_15]: Do you do that with one hand?
29:03 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, with one hand.
29:04 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Not with both hands.
29:05 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_15]: And I like to cue people in.
29:06 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_12]: But see the thing is you need to do the cues you need both hands, right?
29:09 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, so sometimes I have to... You conduct the time, everybody.
29:12 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_12]: You conduct the time and also certain articulations with your right hand.
29:16 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_12]: And you have to, you have to, are you show dynamics, you, you, you quiet everybody down with your left and I love it.
29:21 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm so good at that.
29:22 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_12]: You need then one of those cars that the steering column can be controlled by your legs.
29:27 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_12]: So you could actually conduct along.
29:28 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_12]: So I can use my cue to drive on.
29:29 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_12]: And when you listen to the music on the radio, like, if you don't cue them, they don't know how to do it.
29:33 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_12]: They won't come in.
29:34 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_12]: They won't.
29:35 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_15]: And then everyone suffers.
29:37 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_12]: And that's the thing, like following along on the radio, like most people just listen to the radio and they're following the music, but if Nicole's conducting, the music has to be there to happen, like, great.
29:48 --> 29:50 [SPEAKER_12]: If you don't put it in, they're not reading the music, right?
29:50 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_12]: If you don't, they won't come in.
29:51 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_13]: They won't know, right?
29:53 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_12]: One more.
29:53 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_12]: Lucy and the sky with diamonds.
29:55 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know why you're getting off topic here.
29:57 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_12]: So this one, 1967, of course, the Beatles.
30:00 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_12]: Notably, we've played this before, because I had a good example of a key change, I think.
30:07 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_12]: Not one of my favorite Beatles songs.
30:08 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_12]: I heard not even the top 20, but tempo change and a key change.
30:13 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_12]: As far as I can tell, no ratio.
30:15 --> 30:16 [SPEAKER_12]: Just kind of a change.
30:16 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Just vibe it out, Ringo.
30:40 --> 30:43 [SPEAKER_15]: It's this tempo change you're discussing.
30:43 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_12]: But not a metric modulation.
30:45 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_15]: It's not a module, did they change the time signature?
30:49 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
30:50 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_15]: Does it go to four?
30:51 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_12]: It goes from three to four.
30:52 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
30:52 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_12]: So it's changing a lot of things.
30:54 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_12]: Key, time, tempo and meter are all changing at the same time because it starts with this sort of fast three, four, and then a slower rock.
31:03 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_15]: I would have labeled it six, eight.
31:05 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_12]: It's interesting.
31:06 --> 31:07 [SPEAKER_12]: That's interesting.
31:09 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_12]: 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, or 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1,
31:37 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_12]: two, one, two, or is it beat, beat, beat, beat, two, three, one, two, three, two, three, right?
31:45 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_12]: Because if you're counting each of those as a beat, it's not six eight.
31:49 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_12]: It's three, four.
31:50 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_12]: Six eight is two beats per bar.
31:51 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
31:52 --> 31:53 [SPEAKER_12]: One, six.
31:53 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_12]: You don't count six eight.
31:54 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_12]: One, two, three, four, five, six.
31:56 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_12]: You count six eight.
31:57 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_12]: One, six.
31:57 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_12]: No, it's the one.
31:58 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_12]: two with triplets, right?
32:00 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_12]: So if it feels like triplets, it's six eight.
32:02 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_12]: If it feels like the base thundrum, doom, doom is giving us beats.
32:05 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_12]: It's three, four.
32:06 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_15]: If for me, that feels like triplets.
32:08 --> 32:08 [SPEAKER_12]: That's interesting.
32:08 --> 32:08 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
32:09 --> 32:10 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think it's, do I like?
32:10 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_15]: No, what I'm talking about.
32:12 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_15]: do I get it?
32:13 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_12]: I think you're I'm close.
32:15 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_12]: You have a master's degree.
32:17 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_12]: It's just in the wrong thing.
32:18 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_12]: So I think it's argue.
32:19 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_15]: Maybe you have a master's degree in the wrong thing.
32:21 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_15]: That's rude.
32:21 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's it's possible actually.
32:23 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
32:24 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, so we get back to the song and my question is some so sorry.
32:26 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_12]: Should we this song I would say has an actual metric modulations two different types two different ratios at work and it's sort of foreshadowed early on and I can explain it.
32:38 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_12]: But do you want to talk about cognitive dissonance now?
32:40 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_15]: Kind of do.
32:41 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm I started thinking about this idea of cognitive justice and like a while ago it always comes up and almost every song we talk about I can find a way to like stop all this talk about it almost talk about it, but mainly for me when I we start looking through these system of a down songs.
33:01 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm really seeing this like dramatic shift between two ideas like really strong like I think even like soft miracles if you put a different treatment on like the lyrics are soft and nice and really talking about like social justice and then you get into these like screen segments there's like loud drum segments that seem like heavier and much more assaulting to me and the balance between those two things.
33:25 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_15]: is calm like it there's such a dramatic shift between the two and I can't really like find balance between them cognitive dissonance is this discomfort we feel when our beliefs don't really match our behavior and I'm hearing that in these songs okay like with the beliefs and the things they're promoting don't always like match to me with the behavior almost right it happens a lot in these lyrics
33:52 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_15]: you know that they're addressing these ideas of cognitive distortion like the system's broken but we're still working in the system.
33:59 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_15]: They're talking about in the other songs you talked about like um the song about prisons.
34:04 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_15]: What was the name of it?
34:05 --> 34:06 [SPEAKER_12]: Prison song.
34:07 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_15]: Well, that's convenient, right?
34:09 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_15]: And this song about prisons.
34:11 --> 34:13 [SPEAKER_12]: They maybe they should have just called it the song about prisons.
34:13 --> 34:15 [SPEAKER_15]: They're going to help me out.
34:16 --> 34:27 [SPEAKER_15]: They're talking about, like, we believe in a fair and just society, but we're like, harm and we're harming marginalized groups and this idea that we're doing things that are wrong and we know they're wrong and we're still doing them.
34:27 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_15]: And that really is the idea of cognitive dissonance that you do things that are wrong and you know that they're wrong and you still do them anyway.
34:35 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_15]: Can you think of any examples in your life that you do the wrong thing knowing it's the wrong thing?
34:40 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_12]: to find wrong because I think like eating that piece of cake or whatever is like a micro cognitive dissonant that like everybody experiences well yeah this is not good for me to have this beer or whatever or to eat this food that maybe is I don't but I'm gonna do it anyways like that's like the tiniest level that I feel like is every day um real so okay cognitive dissonance being a type of cognitive distortion right which we've we've highlighted a few of those in the past right like other biases so
35:09 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_12]: Can you think of times in my life that I feel cognitive dissonance?
35:14 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Where I do something, I know is wrong.
35:17 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm stalling because I try to lead a just life.
35:21 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_12]: Cognitive dissonance for me, like, aside from eating junk or drinking junk.
35:27 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, yeah, I mean, I think that we talked about this when we talked about
35:33 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, the fundamental attribution here and you reminded me how it worked in our episode a couple weeks ago on Tracy Chapman.
35:40 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_12]: And I talked about like, oh, the guy who cut in line at, yeah, in the exit on the highway, what an asshole he is.
35:48 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_12]: But oh, I'm to that is cognitive dissonance.
35:51 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, I think I'm a good person.
35:53 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_12]: But yeah, sometimes I'll do, I will do a thing in traffic.
35:57 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_12]: I will not be in the actual correct lane.
35:59 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_12]: It's still turn right or whatever because I do not want to wait in that line.
36:02 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
36:02 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Because I am selfishly prioritizing me not being late to work over all the other people.
36:07 --> 36:10 [SPEAKER_12]: I know enough to know that's a cognitive thought of a lot.
36:10 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
36:11 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_12]: But I still might do it.
36:13 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm kind of a goody goody though.
36:14 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't do like what?
36:15 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Nicole, I don't do like real bad things actually.
36:17 --> 36:21 [SPEAKER_12]: I should be ashamed of us and if I did I probably wouldn't talk about them on this talk.
36:21 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_15]: It's true, but the the the examples that you identify I think are like the most common examples the fact that like we know That smoking is bad and we still smoke cigarettes and we know that drinking is bad and we still drink.
36:34 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_15]: We know we shouldn't sorry
36:36 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_15]: I don't do this.
36:38 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_15]: You don't either, but we know you shouldn't drink and drive, but plenty of adults I know will have two beers in dinner and then drive home.
36:44 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_15]: We know we shouldn't do that, but we do it anyway, because we feel like the bad thing's not going to happen to us, right?
36:50 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_15]: Or that we're outliers.
36:52 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_15]: But these ideas about cognitive distortions that are really, really are interesting to me, and system of the down brings this up a lot in their music,
37:03 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_15]: it's literally part of a system of authority that the people above us are telling us to do bad things, so we do them and we absolve any guilt towards that.
37:14 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_12]: I think part of the way that that works, like systemic cognitive dissonance, seems to be because of
37:21 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_12]: the narratives we tell ourselves around these things.
37:23 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_12]: So like, okay, we're not talking about prison song, or a song about a prison is what they call it, right?
37:27 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
37:28 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_12]: But if that's an example, like, there's a narrative and enabling narrative that people in prisons are bad guys.
37:36 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
37:36 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_12]: That who cares what happens to them?
37:38 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Who cares if people are making tons of millions of dollars or whatever off the prisons they're building?
37:43 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Because they're bad.
37:45 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_12]: The systemic cognitive dissonance that we're many of us at least as a society experience has to be paired with some kind of a rationale, whether it's patriotism or
37:56 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_15]: someone being deserving of it like that rationale has like a mythology to it and is wrapped up in our identity in a way that maybe makes it harder to dispel yeah and there's something you're talking about self concept right like how you see yourself in the world and a lack of congruent between who you are and what you do we can call identity dissonance instead of cognitive dissonance what link okay
38:21 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_15]: when who you think you are versus who you are or two different people, like you have a view that you are a fair and just person and put people observe you in a different way.
38:32 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
38:34 --> 38:43 [SPEAKER_15]: Another thing that comes up here to your point of both like the systems and how we're interacting with the world around us comes into the world on moral disengagement.
38:44 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_15]: Have you heard that term before?
38:45 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_15]: Moral disengagement.
38:49 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_12]: No, I know, I can assume kind of what it means.
38:51 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_15]: What's your assumption?
38:52 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, so you're just not thinking about it.
38:55 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Like they have a zombie YOB bringing your own bonds, right?
38:58 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_12]: That song is about the military industrial complex.
39:00 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_12]: And that style, everybody going to the party have a real good time.
39:04 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_12]: It's framed like that chorus is like this.
39:06 --> 39:08 [SPEAKER_12]: Rally around the flag.
39:08 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_12]: This is great, everybody.
39:10 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_12]: Like we're going to go kill people, right?
39:12 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_12]: You disengage from the actual real.
39:14 --> 39:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you're like reality of what's happening in a lot of times, right?
39:18 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_15]: Often attach the term moral disengagement to conversations about like obedience to authority and how like who's you don't have to really take your ownership over the action because your boss told you to do it.
39:30 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_15]: So a lot of folks when they just play
39:33 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_15]: actions, rooted in cognitive dissonance is because someone else told them it was okay to do it.
39:38 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
39:39 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_15]: Like, you can drop the bomb because it's not your call.
39:42 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_15]: Someone else told you to do it and you can just do it because that's your job and you're just doing your job and you're doing your job for good reasons so you can make money and support your family and you like justify it in this way.
39:53 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_15]: But what system of that down is doing in their music is asking us to confront those beliefs, and I think that that's really powerful, to say like you don't have to subscribe to what you're being fed by authority, and you can act on your own identity and your own agency.
40:07 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_15]: And I think that that's really a great state.
40:09 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_12]: It's interesting because they're equal opportunity in the sense that like they're talking about war, they're talking about prisons.
40:15 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_12]: There's a song called Chicken Stew that is
40:18 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_12]: the lyrics like a lot of them come from directly like quotes from ads they saw while watching a Lakers game.
40:25 --> 40:27 [SPEAKER_12]: It's about advertising brainwashing, that's not like that.
40:28 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Like it's kind of almost funny when you listen to it's goofy sounding because it's this like bouncy, but heavy metal song where they're screaming, ad stuff and it's like the dissonance of in that consumerism you lose your independent thought.
40:41 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_12]: Sort of is kind of what I think their point is so they do seem
40:45 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_12]: often interested in the engaging with people's lack of engagement, right?
40:51 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
40:52 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_15]: And when you think of a song that's confronting consumerism using a jingle type of motif in the song, what they're doing is they're offering a set I assume I've never heard the song, but I assume that they're offering some sort of satire towards marketing and advertising to get you to go against.
41:13 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_12]: right in the same way that like there's an irony to the poppinists of b-y-o-b's chorus there's also an irony to how over the top and not catchy and jingling this music is though here's that here's a clip of that chicken stew all cute up hang on this is from 2002
41:57 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_12]: part of it that they're like playing with the constructs of advertising to like call them out on their behavior almost ready and it's not cognitive Distance to have the like over the top screaming, you know, and then the pepperoni on your phone shot like it's not cognitive Distance, but they said extreme juxtaposition
42:14 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_12]: the contrast is sort of like when you've got a Tarantino movie and there's this like 60's bubblegum pop song happening during a murder or something like that, right?
42:23 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_12]: There's like a discomfort almost with these things getting put together.
42:28 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_12]: That is maybe kind of like parallel to the cognitive dissonance of like, I know this is trash, but I'm watching this
42:37 --> 42:41 [SPEAKER_12]: stuff and consuming this stuff and going and buying things or whatever.
42:41 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_15]: Which is like really ironic too if you like look at a big picture here that system with the Dow's challenging, consumerism challenging like the system and authority in these constructs of capitalism.
42:55 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_15]: But they're each they just looked up each of them are worth over $20 million dollars individually.
42:59 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, they're a famous band.
43:01 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, they do with that right is important.
43:04 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure that they're doing something
43:06 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_15]: But they're not poor guys, so I'm interested in that as like a big picture and a big motif when we talk about authenticity.
43:15 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_15]: How can you authentically challenge capitalism when you're benefiting from capitalism?
43:20 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a big question.
43:22 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_12]: Can you?
43:22 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think I'm not sure if you can.
43:24 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_12]: I think like that brought rage against the machine down.
43:28 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
43:28 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_12]: I think they couldn't all four of them mutually agree on how you do that.
43:33 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
43:33 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_12]: And system of a down hasn't been, they're not prolific.
43:37 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_12]: They have maybe four albums, maybe five, two of them come out really close to each other, hypnotize and mesmerize, come out kind of maybe even in the same year or something like that.
43:46 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think they've put out a record since the odds, though.
43:48 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_12]: No.
43:49 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_12]: And I don't even know that they broke up so much as they...
43:52 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't want to read too much into it, but...
43:54 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_12]: I think that might be kind of an element.
43:56 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_12]: That question is, when you start up NGO, essentially, with Tom Morello, how do you then be a multi-millionaire?
44:05 --> 44:10 [SPEAKER_12]: And now, no, I'm sure those guys, at least some of them, I'm sure are given away tons of money, and actually... You know, there are two.
44:11 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you know, they're giving away money.
44:12 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_15]: They're Armenian, and they've given a lot of money to the Armenian fund to help protect Armenia from genocide.
44:20 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_15]: About half a million dollars.
44:21 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_15]: Collectively, they gave there.
44:23 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_15]: they also have raised given money to finally bone marrow donors for people that they know and love.
44:30 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_15]: They give away some money individually, but even still, yeah, they're.
44:33 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_12]: It's interesting, because we are not ever looking through every artist.
44:36 --> 44:37 [SPEAKER_12]: Did you give enough money?
44:37 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_12]: No, of course.
44:38 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_12]: But it is interesting when you are a protest artist.
44:42 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
44:42 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_12]: And I capitalist artists to ask the questions, right?
44:45 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Because we're not all, what is it like, Fugazzie or whatever that wouldn't, like they were,
44:50 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_12]: to a certain extent at least just against the idea of monetizing their music at all.
44:56 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't remember the specifics I might have at wrong, but I think it was Fugazi the punky kind of emoish adjacent band that like couldn't make money, but essentially off of it because of their really strong opinions about the sort of capitalist aspects of the music industry.
45:12 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_12]: But then certain protest artists will willingly still and maybe they do good things with their money.
45:18 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_12]: But there's attention there.
45:19 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_12]: There is.
45:20 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_15]: And this is going to feel really judgey.
45:23 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_15]: But if you have a multi-member band that each member of the band just worth over $20 million to donate a portion of your record sales to the Armenia fund, they don't need $600 in 2022.
45:34 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_15]: It's a portion of their record sales.
45:36 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_15]: I feel like we could be doing more.
45:37 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I, I'm not going to call them out, but I think it's a question.
45:40 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not going to call them out, but it's a question.
45:42 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, it's Mark in the edit.
45:44 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Except this time, I've gotten a call.
45:47 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_12]: Hi.
45:47 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Because I realized something after I edited this episode right before we were about to record another episode.
45:56 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_12]: We've been talking a lot about progressive politics in this band and all that, but actually the drummer sort of is notably quite magna now.
46:05 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_12]: So I don't know.
46:06 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_12]: There's not much to say about it, right?
46:08 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_12]: We're just kind of like putting it there or discussion kind of focuses on whether they're performatively left wing or real left wing, but they're not all that way anymore anyways.
46:17 --> 46:33 [SPEAKER_15]: And I think that that goes back to what we talk about in this episode, that where's the line between performative politics and how you genuinely live your life and knowing this information is going to inform you as a listener as you hear what we're about to say about system of the down.
46:34 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_15]: So.
46:35 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_12]: Back to our programs.
46:36 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_12]: I noticed while editing, system of the down is what you say all the time.
46:40 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_15]: What is it?
46:40 --> 46:43 [SPEAKER_12]: It is not definitively the down.
46:43 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_12]: It is just one of many down.
46:47 --> 46:48 [SPEAKER_12]: back to the show.
46:49 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_12]: Is it unfair to raise that it only for them?
46:51 --> 46:52 [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.
46:52 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Is there a contrast there that probably causes them a degree of stress probably, right?
46:57 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Like.
46:58 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
46:58 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_12]: And you have to maybe look at that cognitive dissonance, right?
47:02 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_12]: And what do you do with that if you're an artist or.
47:06 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_15]: And then how are you going to find like the narrative you tell yourself like.
47:10 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, I have all this money and I earned this money and it's mine and I've done good because our songs stocked off political violence and any capitalistic concern.
47:20 --> 47:21 [SPEAKER_15]: It worked.
47:21 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_12]: You know, but like you can incrementally like you could say, no, this is actually interesting though, because
47:25 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_12]: This is a piece of like the late 90s, early 2000s agro metal where I promise you chop Sui or whatever is used as a hype up song for like frat boys to haze the new freshman you
47:40 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, like, oh, there's like conservative Wall Street investors snort in cocaine while listening to prison song by system of a down before they go out and exploit the world or whatever, right?
47:52 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, like, the because of the style of music.
47:56 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_12]: Is this one of those moments where the message could possibly be lost by some people?
48:01 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_12]: And they just go, yeah, and they don't listen to the words where they're actually they're actually trying to make you think of war or poverty or the Armenian genocide.
48:11 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_12]: I know they have references in their songs from the early 20th century, like where the message can get lost.
48:18 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_12]: And so look, that's not their fault.
48:20 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, they wanted to write songs that were
48:25 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, like, plenty of people listen to raging in the machine and don't even stop at once and think of the lyrics and what they say.
48:31 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_12]: They're political beliefs, do not align at all with what they're just looking like for catharsis of their anger and a lot of music at that time period.
48:39 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_15]: If you look at, like, would stock 9.9, like you'd be like this place to put this anger or aggression or aggression or like to put it early millennial elder millennial late Jenna anger.
48:53 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_15]: And it needed to go somewhere, and I think system of the dial, and if you don't really read into their history and read into their lyrics, and you just need some place to go and scream, this is a place to go and do that, and I think that there's, I think that there's merit in that too, but it's that dissonance for me of trying to balance, like, okay, we're talking about systems of oppression, and I'm just now looking up the homes that these folks live in, oh, please, and like it's hard to balance that for me.
49:20 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm having like a dissonance in balancing that.
49:22 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_12]: I, look, I don't want to be old, please, like, I don't want to yuck your yum there, or yum your yups with.
49:27 --> 49:28 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm just curious.
49:28 --> 49:33 [SPEAKER_12]: But, but it's, we can't, fundamentally, I'm still a music first guy and a lyrics second guy.
49:33 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_12]: So, like, there are plenty of songs that I don't even really listen to the context of the lyrics and then I don't obsess.
49:38 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_12]: If these guys were doing problematic things, I would be more mad at look.
49:43 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_12]: is Bernie Wright that billionaire shouldn't exist maybe, but I don't want to get in the habit where we're looking at like you and I have full-time jobs in a part of the world that is pretty aside from ice storms and stuff pretty safe.
49:59 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_12]: Do you donate enough of your money to charity?
50:02 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but like, I, so I, look, if I had $20 million to myself and I had a beautiful home in Glendale, California, whatever that was worth $10 million or whatever, maybe yeah, you should look at me and say, you donate it enough, but I also don't want the stone throwing through the glass house too much because it all is so great.
50:21 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_15]: It's totally all relative, but also the differences.
50:24 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_15]: We, like,
50:26 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_15]: And I'm being judgey just like to offer good conversation here.
50:30 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not, I know that if I had that money, I'd live in a really nice house, too.
50:33 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_15]: Like I'd have a house.
50:34 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_12]: It's also like why I'm sorry.
50:35 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_12]: Why, sorry to interrupt.
50:38 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_15]: Is it okay?
50:39 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Is it though?
50:41 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_12]: No.
50:41 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_12]: Why?
50:42 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Why the one rock band that's all West Asian immigrants or children of immigrants, the one that anybody can name the one, the four Armenians that that most Americans can name is the one person we look at and go, you're not donating enough.
50:57 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm not accusing you of that.
50:59 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_12]: there are a lot of people that we're not even engaging whereas we're like why aren't you oh oh you helped your community how you're you're increasing awareness of the Armenian genocide by spending oh 500 why not 600 it's not like I'm typing 10% of my income to the countries that my parents immigrated their families immigrated from 100 years ago so it's like yeah I don't want to put them on a different standard
51:22 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_12]: although you could say they have chosen to make themselves outspoken politically.
51:26 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_15]: Well, they've made their money, they've made their money.
51:28 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_15]: Not they've chosen to, they've chosen to capitalize and you could argue on uprooting systems of repression.
51:37 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_15]: That's how they made all this money.
51:40 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_12]: they're exposing themselves to that criticism in a way that we aren't because I am I am chosen to make my money off of talking about music for a bunch of college students.
51:47 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_15]: It's true.
51:48 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_12]: So, you know, if I was a hypocrite about music, you could criticize me like you know.
51:52 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_15]: And like, yeah, sure you do give back to your community in the way that you can that seems relative to you.
51:58 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_15]: But you didn't make your money opposing systems of oppression and then contribute to those systems of oppression, you know what I mean?
52:05 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_12]: Wow, I think it's arguable that I don't contribute to the systems of the present.
52:11 --> 52:29 [SPEAKER_12]: I think as much as I work at a community college that is actually free if you're a Massachusetts resident and I try to empower my students, you could also say that I am an agent of a fake meritocratic structure that is prioritizing
52:29 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_12]: European colonial ways of knowing.
52:32 --> 52:48 [SPEAKER_12]: And like there's a way that you can talk about me being a public servant by working underpaid at a public college that gives away free tuition to Massachusetts residents, or you could turn it that actually I am keeping people down by being a gatekeeper to college, right?
52:49 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_12]: And although those could be true, talk about cognitive dislike.
52:51 --> 52:53 [SPEAKER_12]: I have to tell myself, you know, those narratives.
52:54 --> 52:54 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
52:54 --> 53:00 [SPEAKER_12]: because I actually think about this folks, I don't teach it like a fancy, expensive college, like Berkeley College of Music, whatever.
53:00 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes I go, man, I'd probably make more there and I'd be more prestigious, but man, could I sleep at night?
53:04 --> 53:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
53:05 --> 53:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Berkeley is great.
53:05 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_12]: You learn a lot, but also you pay so much for what you learn.
53:09 --> 53:09 [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.
53:09 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_12]: Could I would I really be comfortable?
53:10 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_12]: Whereas now I'm sending students out in the world, having taught them something useful that in a lot of cases, cost them literally nothing except for sweat equity.
53:18 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_12]: and sleep at night well with that.
53:20 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_15]: And I'm sure you do put work into decolonize your curriculum.
53:24 --> 53:31 [SPEAKER_15]: 100% and to honor outlier narratives or bring in new narratives to the story that you're telling your students.
53:31 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_15]: And a lot of people aren't doing that.
53:33 --> 53:38 [SPEAKER_15]: So while you don't have like the money to contribute, you are still like making a difference.
53:38 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_15]: And they are too by just like for funding these issues to people that may not know.
53:44 --> 53:52 [SPEAKER_12]: So that's where we look at like am I doing enough is one question can ask, but you could also ask, am I doing better than others maybe and better than has been?
53:52 --> 53:53 [SPEAKER_12]: And I would say, yeah, okay, the answer is there.
53:53 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_12]: So we could look at them and do the same, right?
53:55 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Are they doing the enough?
53:56 --> 53:57 [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe not?
53:57 --> 53:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Are they doing better than others?
53:59 --> 53:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe yes.
53:59 --> 54:02 [SPEAKER_15]: And really it doesn't matter what we think, right?
54:02 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_15]: We can talk about this idea of identity dissonance that we're saying like, you know, maybe you could say, like, they're not doing enough, but it doesn't matter.
54:11 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_15]: Because if they view themselves as altruistic people that are making a positive difference in the world, like that's enough, that's all that needs to happen.
54:18 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_15]: It's like the judgeiness of this dissonance and this moral disengagement that gets us into hot water, right?
54:24 --> 54:26 [SPEAKER_15]: When we start with this comparative stuff.
54:26 --> 54:33 [SPEAKER_15]: So I'm just bringing up for the, because I think it's a good conversation to have to balance those two things for me is becoming challenging.
54:33 --> 54:34 [SPEAKER_12]: I think so.
54:34 --> 54:37 [SPEAKER_12]: I think you and I fall slightly differently.
54:37 --> 54:39 [SPEAKER_12]: But I think it's a struggle.
54:39 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's yeah.
54:40 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_12]: And I still don't know 100% how cognitive dissonance fits in with the song specifically, but I think it got us to an interesting conversation about this band.
54:48 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_15]: That was the goal.
54:49 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
54:49 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_12]: Can we almost an hour deep?
54:51 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_12]: Can we talk about the music now?
54:52 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
54:53 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_15]: Sorry.
55:08 --> 55:10 [SPEAKER_12]: We're talking about metric modulations here.
55:10 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_12]: And I don't have to harp on this too much.
55:12 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to give you some examples.
55:14 --> 55:16 [SPEAKER_12]: But first, we got to establish the groove here.
55:17 --> 55:18 [SPEAKER_12]: We got to establish the rhythm here.
55:18 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_12]: This song is in compound meter.
55:21 --> 55:24 [SPEAKER_12]: which means the beat divides you've set into triplets, right?
55:24 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_12]: So instead of four four going one, two, three, four, which would be one and two and three and four, each of those beats is three parts.
55:35 --> 55:38 [SPEAKER_12]: One and up to end up, three and up four and done.
55:38 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Three divisions of the beat plus three divisions plus three plus three gives us 12.
55:43 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_12]: So we actually call this 12 eight.
55:46 --> 55:48 [SPEAKER_12]: And so this song,
55:48 --> 55:52 [SPEAKER_12]: is in 128, 78 beats per minute, 78 dotted quarter notes.
55:52 --> 56:02 [SPEAKER_12]: This is that overall 128 groove here.
56:14 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, got it.
56:16 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, yeah.
56:17 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_12]: Two, three, four, and yeah, you're in great.
56:21 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_12]: So the rhythm is clear there.
56:23 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_12]: There's a lot of chaos in the way it's presented, but essentially we have a clear solid 128.
56:28 --> 56:42 [SPEAKER_12]: We go into the mellow, pretty versed with the confusing lyrics and we still have clarity with our 128.
56:42 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_10]: Looking at life through the eyes of a tired heart
56:48 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_12]: One, and a two, and a three, and a four, and a, well, that.
56:52 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, feel me?
56:54 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
56:55 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Just after that, something comes in, a second guitar part, giving a dotted rhythm, not the dotted chord is a dot top, but something that cuts against.
57:05 --> 57:07 [SPEAKER_12]: We're dividing the beats in half instead of in three.
57:08 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_12]: So there's a guitar that cuts with this dot, dot, dot, dot.
57:11 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_12]: That you're going to hear a comment that starts to suggest a different meter.
57:27 --> 57:29 [SPEAKER_12]: You're that that, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh.
57:29 --> 57:32 [SPEAKER_12]: That almost sounds like it's six, four.
57:32 --> 57:33 [SPEAKER_12]: Let's think about it.
57:33 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_12]: We've a 12-acre, one, two, and a three, and a four.
57:37 --> 57:47 [SPEAKER_12]: If I took those A's and instead made them into pairs of two, we'll go from one, and a two, and two, one, and two, and three, and four, and five, and six, and.
57:47 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_12]: So we have the layer of the six against the layer of the 12, which is really a layer of four.
57:54 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, six, eight.
57:55 --> 57:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, fractions.
57:56 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_12]: Six, then, would be, yeah, right.
57:59 --> 58:03 [SPEAKER_12]: 12 is four groups of three, six is six groups of two.
58:04 --> 58:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Both happening simultaneously.
58:05 --> 58:09 [SPEAKER_12]: This is suggesting some things that might change later in the song.
58:09 --> 58:10 [SPEAKER_12]: It's what?
58:10 --> 58:11 [SPEAKER_15]: It's all 12.
58:11 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_12]: It all adds up to 12, but it's where you emphasize.
58:14 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_12]: It's like the subdued.
58:14 --> 58:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Are you emphasizing one, two and a or one, two, three, four, five, right?
58:20 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a different way of emphasizing the same total number.
58:24 --> 58:27 [SPEAKER_12]: And this is going to lead to metric modulation later, right?
58:28 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_12]: So we finally get to the chorus.
58:30 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_12]: Here we go.
58:30 --> 58:32 [SPEAKER_12]: We're still in 12A, right?
58:33 --> 58:34 [SPEAKER_12]: Anything rhythmically interesting here?
58:54 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_12]: It's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder, it's harder
59:24 --> 59:26 [SPEAKER_12]: One, two, and a three and a four.
59:26 --> 59:53 [SPEAKER_12]: We get one, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da
59:53 --> 59:59 [SPEAKER_08]: No, somewhere between the sacred silence, sacred silence in sleep.
59:59 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_12]: So if you just did that, somewhere between us, one and two and three and would against the instruments, it doesn't quite fit.
01:00:11 --> 01:00:19 [SPEAKER_12]: So just like the guitar earlier was suggesting this other meter that could be pasted on top of the 12-8, this is pasting almost a four, four on top of the 12-8.
01:00:20 --> 01:00:26 [SPEAKER_12]: We haven't changed, but it creates this tension, dissonance, sort of, between the different layers, as you said.
01:00:26 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_12]: The drums are still fine in 12-8.
01:00:29 --> 01:00:30 [SPEAKER_12]: For goal is not fine in 12-8.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:33 [SPEAKER_15]: No, and it's meant to give you that feeling.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_15]: The feeling is like unstutateness, almost.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:36 [SPEAKER_12]: I would say so, yeah.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:39 [SPEAKER_15]: He's a great lyricist.
01:00:39 --> 01:00:41 [SPEAKER_15]: like vocalist, I mean vocalists.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, oh yeah, I can't even have any idea.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:46 [SPEAKER_12]: He probably could sing classical music.
01:00:46 --> 01:00:49 [SPEAKER_15]: It's really impressive when you just isolate the vocal.
01:00:49 --> 01:00:52 [SPEAKER_15]: You're like, oh wow, like that's how I'm not saying.
01:00:52 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not saying that that classical music is necessarily harder, but there's like a control over the voice that he has that a lot of like metal singers don't.
01:01:00 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_12]: Some of them do.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:03 [SPEAKER_12]: You know Ronnie James D. Oh, or whatever.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:07 [SPEAKER_12]: I think Maynard from
01:01:07 --> 01:01:09 [SPEAKER_12]: What's happening in your vocal cords?
01:01:09 --> 01:01:20 [SPEAKER_15]: And I think that's very interesting because a lot of times when you're trying to sing this music, I imagine like, young people would just shout it and scream, but there's an art to it.
01:01:20 --> 01:01:23 [SPEAKER_12]: You have to like support your, like, especially doing this on tour every night.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:28 [SPEAKER_15]: It's really, I have a lot of respect for singers that sing this type of music.
01:01:28 --> 01:01:29 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's really hard to do well.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:33 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so none of this is metric modulation.
01:01:33 --> 01:01:38 [SPEAKER_12]: I'm just telling you the little seeds of the idea that happened in the first half of this song.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Eventually we get to the bridge and we have an actual tempo change.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:45 [SPEAKER_12]: I'll first play it and then we'll talk about what we're doing.
01:01:45 --> 01:01:46 [SPEAKER_12]: It's sort of simple, sort of weird.
01:01:46 --> 01:01:48 [SPEAKER_09]: This is our, this is our.
01:02:03 --> 01:02:04 [SPEAKER_15]: like that I think.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_12]: So it speeds up.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:10 [SPEAKER_12]: Now, this is a sort of simple type of metric modulation.
01:02:10 --> 01:02:13 [SPEAKER_12]: It has a simple ratio, but kind of a weird relationship with the meter.
01:02:13 --> 01:02:14 [SPEAKER_12]: So what's happening?
01:02:14 --> 01:02:16 [SPEAKER_12]: We have 128 and 78 beats per minute.
01:02:16 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_12]: It's the song.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:22 [SPEAKER_12]: And now it doubles to be 128 in 156 beats per minute.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:24 [SPEAKER_12]: But the weird thing is,
01:02:24 --> 01:02:28 [SPEAKER_12]: Double time is really common in four four because think about it.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:38 [SPEAKER_12]: If I'm counting four four one and two and three and four and we're already cutting that beaten half one and two and just becomes one two three four here
01:02:39 --> 01:02:58 [SPEAKER_12]: The half layer doesn't make sense in the meter because the meter's going 1 and a 2 and a it's not like they're taking the 1 and they're taking 1 and a half of those we're going 1 and a 2 and a 3 and a 4 and 1 2 3 4 what it is is that guitar part earlier.
01:02:58 --> 01:03:00 [SPEAKER_12]: 12 divided by two is six.
01:03:00 --> 01:03:02 [SPEAKER_12]: The six four becomes the new tempo.
01:03:02 --> 01:03:02 [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
01:03:03 --> 01:03:09 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a metric modulation of double time, but double time doesn't fit the math of 12 eight because it should be like triple time.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:10 [SPEAKER_15]: I get you.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:14 [SPEAKER_12]: The beat doesn't cut in half in 12 eight, but they've done it anyways, right?
01:03:14 --> 01:03:14 [SPEAKER_12]: Am I?
01:03:14 --> 01:03:15 [SPEAKER_12]: Have I a losing you?
01:03:16 --> 01:03:20 [SPEAKER_15]: It's like hard to track, but I understand like the 30 foot view of it.
01:03:20 --> 01:03:25 [SPEAKER_12]: Basically, they just multiply the tempo by two, but this meter doesn't deal in twos.
01:03:25 --> 01:03:26 [SPEAKER_12]: This meter deals in threes.
01:03:27 --> 01:03:28 [SPEAKER_12]: So it's a weird kind of range.
01:03:28 --> 01:03:33 [SPEAKER_15]: And that's why it feels like there's like a disjointedness to it when you listen to it.
01:03:33 --> 01:03:34 [SPEAKER_12]: I think so.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:37 [SPEAKER_15]: It's a no way that doesn't feel like an or very organic shift.
01:03:37 --> 01:03:40 [SPEAKER_15]: It feels like an inorganic shift because of the math.
01:03:40 --> 01:03:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Doubled time is actually really common in like Scott music.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:45 [SPEAKER_12]: She got like a ray gay beat and then you double time to play the fast Scott.
01:03:45 --> 01:03:48 [SPEAKER_12]: And people, I don't even know really notice it sometimes.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:52 [SPEAKER_15]: Because it feels like they're playing 16th notes instead of eighth note.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Kind of with a pick it up kind of feel.
01:03:56 --> 01:04:14 [SPEAKER_12]: there's something about this moment that feels like a new thing is happening and it's because the ratio, the times two ratio doesn't really have anything to do with anything that could be set for the guitar earlier with the junk junk and his somewhere between suggests kind of these different layers pasted on top.
01:04:15 --> 01:04:22 [SPEAKER_15]: They're like laying the foundations so we could like be on beat now if you were just following that beat from later up until this point.
01:04:22 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_12]: So let me play it just now.
01:04:23 --> 01:04:24 [SPEAKER_12]: We've heard it.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:24 [SPEAKER_12]: Let's do it.
01:04:25 --> 01:04:25 [SPEAKER_12]: Got it.
01:04:25 --> 01:04:28 [SPEAKER_12]: You've got it.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:38 [SPEAKER_12]: But it's not 4-4 either.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:39 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a new 12-8.
01:04:40 --> 01:04:43 [SPEAKER_12]: So the math is like slow divided by 3.
01:04:43 --> 01:04:45 [SPEAKER_12]: Take half of that and divide that by 3.
01:04:45 --> 01:04:47 [SPEAKER_12]: So like the ratio is very odd.
01:04:47 --> 01:04:49 [SPEAKER_15]: The ratio is different on paper, but like the toe tap is the same.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:51 [SPEAKER_15]: Like when you're like tap your foot to the top.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:52 [SPEAKER_12]: The big tap is the same.
01:04:52 --> 01:04:53 [SPEAKER_12]: Yep.
01:04:53 --> 01:04:53 [SPEAKER_15]: Yep.
01:04:53 --> 01:04:54 [SPEAKER_15]: The toe tap.
01:04:54 --> 01:04:55 [SPEAKER_12]: How did it get out of this, right?
01:04:55 --> 01:04:56 [SPEAKER_12]: This is the same term.
01:04:56 --> 01:05:00 [SPEAKER_12]: Then we go back to the chorus, so let's hear them get back to.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:04 [SPEAKER_12]: So now the dotted half of the fast tempo.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:30 [SPEAKER_01]: half-the-bar becomes the new quarter of the bar.
01:05:34 --> 01:05:46 [SPEAKER_12]: right yeah it's cool it's a simple metric modulation except for the way that these meters divide doesn't quite feel natural but it's still like feels
01:05:46 --> 01:05:48 [SPEAKER_15]: unified in a way.
01:05:49 --> 01:05:50 [SPEAKER_15]: There's a thread.
01:05:50 --> 01:05:51 [SPEAKER_15]: There's a thread through it all.
01:05:51 --> 01:05:52 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
01:05:52 --> 01:05:58 [SPEAKER_12]: And so double time is a super common metric modulation, but in six eight and twelve eight like this, it's not as common.
01:05:59 --> 01:06:00 [SPEAKER_12]: And so how does it end?
01:06:00 --> 01:06:01 [SPEAKER_12]: We go into this outro.
01:06:01 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_12]: But this time, they go to double time again and then return, but instead of returning to twelve eight, they returned to four four.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:16 [SPEAKER_12]: So now each
01:06:24 --> 01:06:48 [SPEAKER_12]: So we go one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, one, two,
01:06:52 --> 01:07:01 [SPEAKER_04]: When I became the sun that's on laughing at the man Tard's when I became the sun that's on laughing at the man So And then they switch again, don't they?
01:07:01 --> 01:07:08 [SPEAKER_12]: That's the end of the song Oh, that's the end of the song That is literally how the song is Yeah, yeah And this herky jerky
01:07:08 --> 01:07:14 [SPEAKER_12]: What style of music are we hearing from song to song, but even within the songs, this band does a lot of tempo shifting to accommodate that.
01:07:15 --> 01:07:25 [SPEAKER_12]: To go from like the, you know, the reggae versus the screaming and when we heard radio video, that wasn't a modulation of the meter, but it was...
01:07:25 --> 01:07:26 [SPEAKER_12]: That's just a metric modulation.
01:07:26 --> 01:07:28 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not the meter that has to modulate.
01:07:28 --> 01:07:29 [SPEAKER_12]: It's the temple.
01:07:29 --> 01:07:30 [SPEAKER_12]: That's a weird term.
01:07:30 --> 01:07:32 [SPEAKER_12]: Stupid music theory people.
01:07:32 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_12]: But the temple changes highlight this extreme contrast that they're all often doing.
01:07:38 --> 01:07:40 [SPEAKER_12]: Can I show you a few other songs I do this?
01:07:40 --> 01:07:43 [SPEAKER_15]: I'd love to hear other examples from different genres.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:43 [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:45 [SPEAKER_12]: So we're definitely going to get that.
01:07:46 --> 01:07:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
01:07:46 --> 01:07:49 [SPEAKER_12]: First, two examples from this band, and then we're going to leave...
01:07:49 --> 01:07:50 [SPEAKER_12]: They love it.
01:07:50 --> 01:07:51 [SPEAKER_12]: They're like so stoked on it.
01:07:51 --> 01:07:52 [SPEAKER_12]: Famous?
01:07:52 --> 01:07:55 [SPEAKER_12]: I would say there's signature song, even though it's not their biggest hit, Chapsui.
01:07:55 --> 01:07:57 [SPEAKER_12]: This bit we're going to hear has three tempos.
01:07:58 --> 01:07:59 [SPEAKER_12]: It goes to halftime.
01:08:00 --> 01:08:08 [SPEAKER_12]: It starts what we're going to hear starts halftime, then goes back to regular kind of time with most of the song, and then we get double time within the span of a few seconds.
01:08:08 --> 01:08:09 [SPEAKER_12]: Not a few seconds.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Half a minute.
01:08:32 --> 01:08:37 [SPEAKER_12]: double it again.
01:08:37 --> 01:08:40 [SPEAKER_12]: We go, we go, we go, we go, we go, we go, we go.
01:08:40 --> 01:08:42 [SPEAKER_12]: So yeah, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, wake up.
01:08:42 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_12]: And then we go, we pull back.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
01:08:45 --> 01:08:46 [SPEAKER_15]: That's easier to check for me.
01:08:46 --> 01:08:47 [SPEAKER_12]: Right, it's straightforward.
01:08:47 --> 01:08:48 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
01:08:48 --> 01:08:49 [SPEAKER_12]: Four four, right.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:49 [SPEAKER_12]: It's not 128.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:50 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
01:08:50 --> 01:08:51 [SPEAKER_12]: B-Y-O-B.
01:08:51 --> 01:08:57 [SPEAKER_12]: When we transition from the verse to the chorus, we also have a pretty straightforward, double time, half modulation thing.
01:09:01 --> 01:09:19 [SPEAKER_10]: At least you haven't, still you've been as lies from the tablecloth.
01:09:21 --> 01:09:22 [SPEAKER_15]: Who else is singing there?
01:09:23 --> 01:09:27 [SPEAKER_12]: There might be backing vocalists, but Darren comes in, I think, to harmonize.
01:09:28 --> 01:09:42 [SPEAKER_12]: I think that's a female vocalist, but then later there's just a tempo change that doesn't appear to be as far as I can tell a metric modulation with a clear ratio.
01:09:47 --> 01:10:00 [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, so that's Darren in the harmony, the pretty harmony, and then the screams too, and so not the lead guy the other guy.
01:10:01 --> 01:10:07 [SPEAKER_12]: Question, estimation point from 2005, slow six eight to fast five four.
01:10:07 --> 01:10:14 [SPEAKER_12]: This is the most complicated of them I think, because we have the eighth note becomes the quarter note, and we get a major meter shift, so take a listen.
01:10:29 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_10]: that's trickier yeah well also we got the five you know that self
01:10:41 --> 01:10:42 [SPEAKER_15]: It was doing that.
01:10:42 --> 01:10:45 [SPEAKER_12]: No, we were just listening to Evermore in the car.
01:10:45 --> 01:10:46 [SPEAKER_12]: We're back to Taylor.
01:10:46 --> 01:10:47 [SPEAKER_12]: I can't remember his.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:49 [SPEAKER_12]: That is two songs and five on it.
01:10:49 --> 01:10:50 [SPEAKER_15]: That's wild.
01:10:50 --> 01:10:50 [SPEAKER_15]: Which songs?
01:10:50 --> 01:10:51 [SPEAKER_12]: Two of them.
01:10:51 --> 01:10:53 [SPEAKER_15]: I don't really know Evermore that much.
01:10:53 --> 01:10:53 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm saving it.
01:10:54 --> 01:10:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Evermore is feels a little bit.
01:10:56 --> 01:10:59 [SPEAKER_12]: Sorry, Tate, it feels a little bit like the B sides of folklore.
01:11:00 --> 01:11:02 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm like waiting to listen to it until I need it.
01:11:02 --> 01:11:05 [SPEAKER_12]: The tolerated is in five full.
01:11:05 --> 01:11:07 [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, I like that song quite a bit.
01:11:07 --> 01:11:33 [SPEAKER_17]: and watch you tolerate it, if it's all in my head tell me no Tell me you are I'm good at wrongs on the road I know what love should be celebrating But you tolerate it And then... Tolerary is a beautiful, lyrically a pleasure Yeah, enclosure is in like 5-8
01:11:34 --> 01:11:41 [SPEAKER_17]: It's over I don't need to go there You go there
01:11:43 --> 01:11:44 [SPEAKER_12]: which is a little more rock.
01:11:44 --> 01:11:45 [SPEAKER_12]: Anyways, nobody cares.
01:11:46 --> 01:11:47 [SPEAKER_12]: Well, they care, but nobody asked how about that.
01:11:49 --> 01:11:54 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so leaving them red hot chili peppers, 2022 record unlimited love.
01:11:55 --> 01:11:55 [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
01:11:56 --> 01:11:56 [SPEAKER_12]: I know you're a big fan.
01:11:57 --> 01:11:57 [SPEAKER_14]: I'm a fan.
01:11:57 --> 01:12:02 [SPEAKER_12]: The versus in the songs called Veronica, versus in four, four, chorus, in six, eight.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:05 [SPEAKER_12]: The dotted quarter note becomes the half note.
01:12:17 --> 01:12:24 [SPEAKER_02]: My name is Nebraska I live in America
01:12:25 --> 01:12:36 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a cool ratio because we got one and a two and a one and two and three and four sounds I I'm my ears are getting like a little treat now.
01:12:37 --> 01:12:38 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, a reward.
01:12:39 --> 01:12:39 [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
01:12:39 --> 01:12:40 [SPEAKER_15]: I was like a little close.
01:12:40 --> 01:12:43 [SPEAKER_12]: This is Hurricane I by Paul Simon 2000.
01:12:43 --> 01:12:44 [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, this is gonna.
01:12:44 --> 01:12:45 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm really sending you over the top.
01:12:45 --> 01:12:45 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:48 [SPEAKER_12]: First is in four four chorus and six eight.
01:12:48 --> 01:12:53 [SPEAKER_16]: So going in the different direction.
01:12:53 --> 01:13:10 [SPEAKER_16]: Over the bridge, your time, over the bridge of time I'm walking with my family and the road begins to climb
01:13:15 --> 01:13:17 [SPEAKER_15]: And I feel like he does that a lot in his music.
01:13:18 --> 01:13:19 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't have to think about that.
01:13:19 --> 01:13:21 [SPEAKER_12]: And like float about the breeze line a few times.
01:13:21 --> 01:13:27 [SPEAKER_12]: Cause he's some of the, that feels like Grace Landy, even though that's from way later than that album came out.
01:13:27 --> 01:13:31 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, he is always kind of floating above some highly complex room.
01:13:31 --> 01:13:31 [SPEAKER_12]: Great.
01:13:31 --> 01:13:32 [SPEAKER_15]: And he's all him.
01:13:32 --> 01:13:35 [SPEAKER_15]: Well, and Garfunkel, sometimes.
01:13:35 --> 01:13:42 [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I mean, no, the whole deal with that Grace Land album is he went to South Africa and found all these like local musicians to play and sing.
01:13:42 --> 01:13:44 [SPEAKER_12]: So he's got like these,
01:13:44 --> 01:13:49 [SPEAKER_12]: grooves that are completely different from the sort of folks wrong.
01:13:49 --> 01:13:50 [SPEAKER_12]: That's on the social issues.
01:13:50 --> 01:13:53 [SPEAKER_12]: And he's tasting these like Paul Simon songs on top of.
01:13:53 --> 01:13:56 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, rhythmic frameworks that are much more complex.
01:13:56 --> 01:13:57 [SPEAKER_15]: And I think it's really intriguing.
01:13:58 --> 01:14:00 [SPEAKER_15]: And he'll call it closer to the ears.
01:14:00 --> 01:14:09 [SPEAKER_12]: All right, last example, Juilliard's string quartet playing Elliot Carter's string quartet number one from 1951 this is highly modernist.
01:14:10 --> 01:14:15 [SPEAKER_12]: I think the term metric modulation may have really been invented to describe things like this.
01:14:15 --> 01:14:18 [SPEAKER_15]: So this is the where they coined the term.
01:14:18 --> 01:14:20 [SPEAKER_12]: It may not be exactly this, but this is when you need the term.
01:14:20 --> 01:14:21 [SPEAKER_15]: They were like, we need something.
01:14:21 --> 01:14:22 [SPEAKER_12]: We need something.
01:14:22 --> 01:14:23 [SPEAKER_12]: We can't just say double time, right?
01:14:23 --> 01:14:25 [SPEAKER_12]: Because you're going to hear some things.
01:14:25 --> 01:14:30 [SPEAKER_12]: And we really would need to look at the score to follow it, because it's rhythmically chaotic.
01:14:30 --> 01:14:37 [SPEAKER_12]: But around the second loud cord you hear, the double dotted quarter note gets translated to become the new quarter note.
01:14:38 --> 01:14:44 [SPEAKER_12]: So that's a ratio of what one in a double dotted quarter note
01:14:45 --> 01:14:50 [SPEAKER_12]: One in seven eighths, I think, beats, turns into one beat, 64 beats per minute.
01:14:50 --> 01:14:57 [SPEAKER_12]: And then around the quiet part you hear near the end, that quarter note becomes an eighth tied to a dotted eighth.
01:14:58 --> 01:15:07 [SPEAKER_12]: And we go from the ratio of one to eighth tied to dotted eighth is a one point with eighth note,
01:15:08 --> 01:15:32 [SPEAKER_12]: eighth note plus one point two if I one becomes one point two five just played the clip it's a point being what we have is in some cases almost irrational numbers okay we get it's not quite going to the ratio of pie but like we get weird let's get it early at cardinal do something we're like this eighth note is your new sex tuplit or like septuplit 16th weird stuff like that okay
01:15:34 --> 01:15:55 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you very much for watching this video.
01:15:55 --> 01:16:05 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I was just thinking of like the music that plays inside your head might be this and the music plays that plays inside my head might be like Paul Simon's crazy.
01:16:05 --> 01:16:08 [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, this stuff is a part of me.
01:16:08 --> 01:16:11 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't like this kind of music, but like I've heard a lot of it and it suits you.
01:16:11 --> 01:16:14 [SPEAKER_12]: This is one of these things where you have to ask yourself like,
01:16:15 --> 01:16:33 [SPEAKER_12]: Basically, as a composer, I have to ask myself sometimes, like, okay, string quartet, you have to count, you're going to learn this so that the quarter note is actually now, it dotted eighth, tied to an eighth note, and you've got to get that math, or they could just kind of vibe it out and speed up a little bit.
01:16:33 --> 01:16:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I would be doing that or whatever it would be slow down right and like can you perceive as the listener with such rhythmically chaotic music can you even perceive the difference between it's not like it's it's third time or half time.
01:16:46 --> 01:16:49 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a ratio that we don't really intuitively understand
01:16:49 --> 01:16:51 [SPEAKER_12]: You have to work really hard to learn that.
01:16:51 --> 01:16:53 [SPEAKER_12]: Julia, our shrink or tech, super good group.
01:16:54 --> 01:17:04 [SPEAKER_12]: You could put out the question, is it worth the effort or just say, slow down a little bit or speed up a little bit or not quite half time, half time, but a little slower and the musical result could be the same.
01:17:04 --> 01:17:31 [SPEAKER_12]: Do you find that like there are some musicians that really like the math part of it and like figuring out that and there are some that would rather just be more organic correct and I think that person doesn't play early a Carter right if you want to be more organic you're not interested in that you're going to play zorn random chance like improvisation you know it's just of course you're there are people that are like the ratios right and then there's some people that don't I think.
01:17:31 --> 01:17:52 [SPEAKER_15]: Another thing I'm observing in this conversation, and I've thought it before, but it's really apparent today, is that both of our fields are really working to name things that exist already, like to put language around motifs and language around behavior, so we can have like a common conversation about it.
01:17:52 --> 01:17:55 [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, I think that's intuitive and obvious for psychology, right?
01:17:55 --> 01:17:57 [SPEAKER_12]: You're not like creating ways people do things.
01:17:57 --> 01:18:03 [SPEAKER_12]: You're explaining human behavior, especially like sociologies, the side of it, social site, music theory.
01:18:04 --> 01:18:05 [SPEAKER_12]: I think I've said this before.
01:18:05 --> 01:18:08 [SPEAKER_12]: I didn't coin this or I didn't invent this, but
01:18:09 --> 01:18:11 [SPEAKER_12]: Music theory is not prescriptive, but descriptive.
01:18:11 --> 01:18:13 [SPEAKER_15]: I've been thinking about that a lot.
01:18:13 --> 01:18:24 [SPEAKER_15]: You've had set it before, and it's kind of, it keeps ringing around my head, because it's like, we're trying like force, not force, but really trying to assign labels to things when really it could just be like, they play a little faster.
01:18:24 --> 01:18:25 [SPEAKER_15]: They play a little slower.
01:18:25 --> 01:18:29 [SPEAKER_12]: The reason why let's just say this is why you need the term metric modulation.
01:18:30 --> 01:18:36 [SPEAKER_12]: I know it's not literally this composer that would be the first person anybody said that, but let's say this is why we need to do this new term.
01:18:36 --> 01:18:38 [SPEAKER_12]: It's because he was trying to do that deliberately, right?
01:18:39 --> 01:18:40 [SPEAKER_12]: So it's rare that
01:18:41 --> 01:18:52 [SPEAKER_12]: You know, like composer that I really like French composer Olivia Messiane, literally composing music while in a concentration camp in World War II, which is crazy to think.
01:18:52 --> 01:19:01 [SPEAKER_12]: The world premiere of Cortet for the end of time happened because the Nazi officers in this camp wanted to be entertained and they said, oh, you're a musician right as a music.
01:19:01 --> 01:19:06 [SPEAKER_12]: The cello part uses only three strings because the cello they randomly had in this Nazi camp.
01:19:06 --> 01:19:07 [SPEAKER_12]: literally only.
01:19:07 --> 01:19:08 [SPEAKER_12]: That's how crazy the story is.
01:19:09 --> 01:19:21 [SPEAKER_12]: He wrote in his life essentially a music theory book that is explaining every little thing he did, but Olivier Messiam was not going around saying at other people need to write music like this, right?
01:19:21 --> 01:19:35 [SPEAKER_12]: Usually even when people poll him to it or whatever is another one kind of an events a way of music theory to fuel his own composition, they're usually not going around proselytizing it, trying to get other people to do it.
01:19:35 --> 01:19:58 [SPEAKER_12]: most of the time they're just nerdy enough that they're like I'm gonna tell everybody what I did but music theory usually is other people listening to the music figuring out what they did and coming up with an explanation for so when we talk about like the rules of harmony from Bach and Mozart like those guys didn't come up with that they were just doing the thing and later people
01:19:58 --> 01:20:03 [SPEAKER_12]: figured out what it meant and so music theory should never be taken to be like a set of rules you follow.
01:20:04 --> 01:20:13 [SPEAKER_12]: It's a set of observations explaining more like a naturalist or a zoologist like oh the answer doing that thing we're not like getting the ants to do anything.
01:20:14 --> 01:20:22 [SPEAKER_12]: You are observing what they're doing and trying to figure out why their little use social relationship works amongst the hive right.
01:20:22 --> 01:20:26 [SPEAKER_15]: In doing that you're kind of establishing
01:20:26 --> 01:20:33 [SPEAKER_15]: like an interplayer reliability that the next person can replicate what that first person did because you're putting parameters and rules around it.
01:20:34 --> 01:20:35 [SPEAKER_12]: The next observer though.
01:20:35 --> 01:20:37 [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, or the creator creator.
01:20:37 --> 01:20:38 [SPEAKER_12]: Interesting.
01:20:39 --> 01:20:41 [SPEAKER_15]: It's like this is a snake eating its tail almost.
01:20:41 --> 01:20:44 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, and does that is that good?
01:20:44 --> 01:20:46 [SPEAKER_12]: Does that make music have more value?
01:20:46 --> 01:20:47 [SPEAKER_12]: Does it make it have less value?
01:20:47 --> 01:20:54 [SPEAKER_15]: It makes it have definitely has more academic value because you can analyze it in a more distinct way and
01:20:54 --> 01:21:06 [SPEAKER_12]: I think the universality there's interesting because yeah, it's something doesn't have more value because it can be analyzed, but connections can be more easily made if you have common language between different kinds of things.
01:21:06 --> 01:21:08 [SPEAKER_15]: I think it's very cool.
01:21:09 --> 01:21:11 [SPEAKER_12]: any fun way to end because we've actually gone long crazy on this one.
01:21:11 --> 01:21:14 [SPEAKER_15]: I bet the only thing I can think of is you talked about the O.C.
01:21:14 --> 01:21:16 [SPEAKER_15]: at the beginning of the episode, the show, the O.C.
01:21:17 --> 01:21:17 [SPEAKER_12]: Did I?
01:21:18 --> 01:21:20 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I said we are not talking about Orange County.
01:21:20 --> 01:21:21 [SPEAKER_12]: We're talking about LA.
01:21:21 --> 01:21:21 [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
01:21:21 --> 01:21:25 [SPEAKER_15]: And I wanted to make my make note be like end with the O.C.
01:21:25 --> 01:21:27 [SPEAKER_12]: I went to high school with one of the guys on.
01:21:27 --> 01:21:28 [SPEAKER_12]: I shot your mouth.
01:21:28 --> 01:21:29 [SPEAKER_12]: I say that like he was my brother's age.
01:21:29 --> 01:21:30 [SPEAKER_12]: So I didn't really know him.
01:21:30 --> 01:21:33 [SPEAKER_12]: But I'm still my mom and I'm in college.
01:21:33 --> 01:21:35 [SPEAKER_12]: My mom's like, oh, we have to go watch out of.
01:21:35 --> 01:21:36 [SPEAKER_15]: Adam.
01:21:37 --> 01:21:37 [SPEAKER_15]: That's all I got.
01:21:37 --> 01:21:38 [SPEAKER_15]: I never watched the O.C.
01:21:39 --> 01:21:42 [SPEAKER_15]: I saw anyone have a fun to admit.
01:21:42 --> 01:21:44 [SPEAKER_15]: I was just a California dream type of girl.
01:21:44 --> 01:21:45 [SPEAKER_12]: The links.
01:21:45 --> 01:21:46 [SPEAKER_12]: I've never even heard it.
01:21:46 --> 01:21:48 [SPEAKER_15]: Adam Brody are you talking about?
01:21:48 --> 01:21:50 [SPEAKER_12]: So did I not name drop Adam Brody on our podcast?
01:21:50 --> 01:21:52 [SPEAKER_15]: I think we just he know you by name.
01:21:52 --> 01:21:54 [SPEAKER_15]: Can we like reach out to him?
01:21:54 --> 01:21:54 [SPEAKER_12]: I have one of those.
01:21:54 --> 01:21:55 [SPEAKER_12]: He.
01:21:55 --> 01:22:04 [SPEAKER_12]: Me and Adam myself like I've barely ever talked to Adam Brody, but my name is
01:22:04 --> 01:22:09 [SPEAKER_12]: If they said that name of my brother, he's probably like, oh, yeah, I went to high school with that guy.
01:22:09 --> 01:22:10 [SPEAKER_12]: I went to middle school with that guy.
01:22:10 --> 01:22:16 [SPEAKER_12]: Like, that doesn't mean we know him well, but my name is weird enough that it would stand out.
01:22:16 --> 01:22:17 [SPEAKER_15]: You know, you're selling yourself short.
01:22:17 --> 01:22:20 [SPEAKER_15]: This might be a classic case.
01:22:20 --> 01:22:20 [SPEAKER_15]: of.
01:22:20 --> 01:22:21 [SPEAKER_12]: So we get them on the pot.
01:22:22 --> 01:22:27 [SPEAKER_12]: I don't think I don't think I'm thinking you're memorable.
01:22:27 --> 01:22:29 [SPEAKER_15]: I'm memorable Mark.
01:22:29 --> 01:22:29 [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
01:22:29 --> 01:22:30 [SPEAKER_15]: Should we get merit?
01:22:30 --> 01:22:32 [SPEAKER_12]: Should we get Adam Brody on the.
01:22:32 --> 01:22:32 [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
01:22:32 --> 01:22:35 [SPEAKER_12]: Why do you call it like my old friend Michael Sorosio.
01:22:35 --> 01:22:36 [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, come on the pot.
01:22:36 --> 01:22:37 [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm doing the same thing.
01:22:37 --> 01:22:39 [SPEAKER_12]: He's like, I don't even remember you mean.
01:22:39 --> 01:23:06 [SPEAKER_12]: I like met a met like Indian guys Indian guides camping trip when I was nine or whatever All right, Indian guys in the O.C no one calls but I think they did call at that But I was we were saying to you go anyways, I don't know we'll cut somewhere Never mind when music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and hosted and produced by Mark Poppony
01:23:09 --> 01:23:17 [SPEAKER_15]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditchimal.com and give us a follow-in social media.
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01:23:24 --> 01:23:25 [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for listening.