What motivates an artist to go beyond performative tweets and truly advocate for a cause they care about? This week, we are joined by Jessica Ilyse Kurn and Michael Stewart Foley, co-hosts of Against the Grain: The Farm Aid Podcast. For over forty years, the Farm Aid music festival has brought legendary artists together to support small family farmers. We talk about what brings them to that stage, what these farmers are up against, and how we’re all united by the same need… to EAT!
Listen to Against the Grain: The Farm Aid Podcast at farmaid.org/podcast and watch for the 2026 festival lineup at farmaid.org/festival!
Music heard in this episode: Bad Religion - “Grains of Wrath”, John Mellencamp - “Rain on the Scarecrow”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, having farm aid comes out against every administration when they do something against farmers, but people don't see that.
00:06 --> 00:09 [SPEAKER_03]: They only see what we're going after at the moment.
00:09 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
00:10 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's a political act instead of a, we're just supporting fair policies for farmers.
00:16 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_03]: No matter who is in charge of the administration.
00:19 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Was there one administration that was like all in for farmers?
00:23 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_06]: It was like the best one.
00:24 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_01]: The Washington administration, maybe, deficit.
00:39 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Hi I'm Mark and I'm Nicole and this is Nevermind the music.
00:44 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_06]: Who are we going to talk to today Mark?
00:46 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_01]: We have two guests for the very first time ever in the podcast.
00:49 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that correct?
00:50 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
00:50 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
00:51 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_01]: We've guested with like four other people on Mike but we're very excited to have two podcasters for the prize of one.
00:57 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got Jessica Elise Kern and Michael Stewart Foley from the against the grain farm aid podcast.
01:03 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome Jessica and Michael so happy to have you on.
01:06 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
01:06 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
01:08 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're great to be here.
01:09 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So you all are simultaneously podcasters.
01:11 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And we can talk about the podcast.
01:12 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, that's going to come up.
01:14 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But also, you work for Farm Aid.
01:17 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're going to hear a bit about what Farm Aid does in this conversation.
01:20 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_01]: But first, the title of your podcast against the grain totally makes sense for a Farm Aid podcast.
01:26 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: That's political and about farmers' rights and things like that.
01:28 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But how inspired by the 1990 Bad Religion album against the grain were you?
01:35 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we always get the question with never mind the music, is that about Nirvana or is that about the sex pistols?
01:40 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm asking you, L.A.
01:42 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Punk band from the 80s and 90s.
01:44 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes or no?
01:46 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_03]: You've hit Michael's wheelhouse.
01:48 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You hit my wheelhouse, but I'm ashamed to say it's totally irrelevant.
01:52 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that album is about farms or anything like that, but they do have a song called Grains of Wrath, which I think is about big corn.
02:04 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_04]: That's from a much later album, though, like biofuel in bed with fossil fuels, et cetera.
02:29 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, before we get into Farmed and what your podcast is, just good, do you want to say why you and I know each other aside from being aligned on issues of music and activism?
02:41 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so we were living in Medford, Mass and all of a sudden new neighbors come and it's Mark and his family and our kids are the exact same age and it was like a match made in heaven and it's the same house so it's like yeah, we were in a triple decker yeah, yeah, when we were floor one and
03:01 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we just got lucky.
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: We landed on top of y'all.
03:03 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And we are still friends, though, you all moved out of state.
03:06 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So we don't get to see quite as often.
03:08 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_03]: We went, which yeah, I know you talked about having two artists from Cleveland on your podcast.
03:13 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, bone thugs and Tracy Chapman.
03:16 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Can the two of you give us a sense of what the podcast is and what FarmEd is doing for folks that don't know about the festival.
03:21 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I want to talk about what we're here to discuss today.
03:26 --> 03:29 [SPEAKER_03]: So, Farmid is an organization that supports family farmers.
03:30 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_03]: We help to keep them on their land and people mostly know us from our festival.
03:36 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Because since 1985, we've been doing this yearly annual food and music festival to celebrate farmers and eaters and everyone coming together to make a change.
03:48 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_03]: but we work year round to do other things to support family farmers and soil and water and strong communities.
03:58 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Basically, we have two jobs.
03:59 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_03]: We have the festival job and then we have our year round job.
04:01 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And then we have the podcast.
04:03 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the podcast fits in like seasonally then because you guys do do seasons it we say we do seasons But really we're like kind of just an endless stream of content that hopefully people listen to But you all will have a theme and go for it for like 10 episodes.
04:17 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we usually have a theme But they're all themes that have to do with what we're working on anyway at Farmed
04:23 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_03]: what's your theme this season?
04:25 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we have a mini series that just came out last week that's a two-part series on a historic farm protest.
04:32 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_03]: That we're going to talk about the rest of this episode, I think.
04:34 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if I will.
04:35 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you the whole thing.
04:37 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Before we do that, just people who like episodic narrative based.
04:42 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_01]: interesting reporting kinds of podcasts.
04:44 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not too doofus is talking on a mic like like this podcast and not not the two of you I'm talking about like you all are streaming together.
04:53 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's at 20 minute episodes.
04:55 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's it's it's much longer.
04:56 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you've got interviews like it's the forum changes, but it's really interesting because you thread all like one of the things I want to talk about later is just
05:04 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_01]: The points that activism costs the artist something, you know, where they have to sacrifice something because of the choices they've made to be an activist and I think that's really relevant with your many series, but people can really deep dive and you all tell a story and that's part of what makes it so cool.
05:19 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, well, the new mini set us up.
05:22 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're here to talk about essentially, I guess it all relates to the blockade of the farmer's home administration and the the 80s, but then there's this John melon camp song about that or that sort of about that issue.
05:33 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And just this sort of big question about what does it mean when people really show up when an artist really shows up as opposed to just.
05:43 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_01]: posting something on Twitter or blue sky or whatever saying that they support something.
05:48 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess set us up like, we want people to listen to your full mini series, but set us up for like what the frame is and we can talk about the music connection and then we'll go from there.
05:58 --> 05:58 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
05:58 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I can, since I'm a historian, I can, I can put this in a little bit of historical context if you want.
06:05 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about a protest that took place in the spring of 1986 in Chilikothi, Missouri, right?
06:11 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a blockade of the farmer's home administration offices that lasts a hundred and forty-five days.
06:17 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_00]: which may be as far as we know, the longest sustained protest in American farm movement history.
06:24 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is pretty shortly after Farm Aid was founded.
06:27 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_00]: The first Farm Aid concert was in September of 1985, so we're talking like a matter of months, six months before this protest began.
06:35 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: an organization that was founded with funding that came out as a first concert, the Missouri World Crisis Center.
06:42 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: This kind of the main engine behind the protest.
06:46 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And then to add a little another layer of context is just the artistic side of it.
06:52 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_00]: This John Mellon camp in July of 1985 had come out with this album called Scarecrow.
06:57 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a lead single off of it.
06:59 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's called Rain on the Scarecrow.
07:02 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_04]: But on the bow, the sland finish, the sland made me blind So now I'm just sorry, there's no reason for you now Way long, scared through, but on the bow Way long, scared through
07:21 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And that got Willie Nelson's attention when Willie thought of this idea to have a benefit concert in September of 85.
07:27 --> 07:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So they joined together pretty quickly.
07:29 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So this protest that we're talking about last week on our podcast is basically an extension out of this very early work of farming coming together with farm organizations like grassroots organizations on the ground in the Midwest.
07:44 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_06]: I have a lot of questions for you all and a lot of it is about
07:49 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_06]: the sociology around Farmed.
07:52 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm trying to figure out how to get that into this conversation without sounding like a gossip, because I'm very interested in not like the politics of farming, but the politics around what I'm framing in my his performative altruism.
08:08 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_06]: And with farming specifically, it feels so genuine and feels like such an internal intrinsic motivation from these artists to give back to their communities.
08:18 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm wondering if in the planning of this, you have to be really mindful of that and almost like vet artists to make sure their intentions are pure and not just looking for clicks or affinity or to like use
08:35 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_06]: And I know that's probably going to steer the conversation in a weird direction, but I'm really interested in that piece, like do people ever approach you and your organization saying I want to be involved in this and you vet them and realize that they're not in it for the right reasons.
08:51 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Probably, but it's also that we're not paying them to play.
08:56 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's such a huge financial cost to them for to donate their time and bring their band and everything that I, I don't know that someone would just do this for a performative reason.
09:09 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_06]: And another thing I was thinking of was Neil Young and how I'm into him, and Willie Nelson too, and they're an older generation, and I know you have Dave Matthews involved in some younger artists involved, but you've just celebrated the 40th anniversary last year of Farm Aid, and I'm wondering who's next to like, carry the torch.
09:30 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_06]: If the wheels are in motion for that now, like we're getting Dave Matthews on board,
09:34 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like you're ending this conversation at court.
09:38 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that an end of the conversation?
09:40 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be supposed to ask that question ten minutes.
09:42 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I'm just so interested.
09:43 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like what I'm really intrigued about.
09:46 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_01]: No, there's young guns, right?
09:48 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Young guns in there.
09:49 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we have some younger artists in 2021.
09:51 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_03]: We had Margot Price joined the board and then just recently this year Nathaniel Raidliff.
09:56 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_03]: join the board.
09:57 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Well I was just going to say I mean it's a really it's an important question and particularly when you take into consideration over 40 years like how the kind of culture of the music industry and as you're suggesting the way that it's been affected by the arrival of social media and things like that it's kind of shifted the way that we think about artists engaging in things like this.
10:19 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So in the very beginning, you know, the first lineup, I forget they were like 54 artists or something like that, playing to a stadium of 80 people.
10:28 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I have it.
10:30 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote a tell.
10:31 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty epic, you know, and the first several shows were like that.
10:34 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They were these big stadium shows.
10:35 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was coming out of this context.
10:38 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: of all these benefit concerts like Live Aid and artists kind of rushing in that period of crisis to walk the walk, you know, not just talk to talk.
10:49 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And because Farm Aid is kind of unprecedented in lasting this long 40 years, there's no other benefit concert that's gone on year after year, right, for all this time.
10:59 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it has built up a certain amount of goodwill and willy and kneel and john in particular, you know, have attracted these younger artists who want to come and perform on the same stage and follow in their footsteps.
11:23 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, last year, we had Jesse Wells in Waxahachi and Eric Burton from Black Pumas.
11:29 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, there's a lot of younger artists who come to us every year, and I'm really glad it's not my job to have to try to figure out who's going to make into the line up this year because that's really complicated.
11:40 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's for sure more requests than we can satisfy, you know.
11:45 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_06]: And I think now there's such a desire to put our activist energy somewhere, I work with college age students every day and they're searching for a place to put this energy that feels productive and feels like not just spinning their wheels like can actually make a difference.
12:03 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_06]: I think about farm aid and hope and it doesn't seem like it ever would like turn into a Coachella or a burning man that it becomes more for clicks and Instagram posts and it doesn't seem like it even might have potential to do that but it seems like you're so many protections in place to prevent that from happening and that feels really pure and nice in a way that not a lot does in the music industry from how I observe it so I think that that's really awesome about your organization.
12:30 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_01]: you also just like tell everybody about the farm crisis real quick because I think we we're we're talking around like people protesting and stuff but people might be wondering what are they even protesting like first of all go listen to the podcast listener go listen to the podcast is pretty cool but yeah like answer that question not to interrupt but what inspired artists to start this festival because it's not a promoter that started it's
12:51 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess the context is that in the 1980s, especially around 1985, there was something called the farm crisis.
13:00 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's when there was a really high input cost, really low prices for the farmers that they were receiving.
13:08 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_03]: So it was very hard to stay in business for many, many reasons, inflation, various things.
13:14 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_03]: But to give you a sense of what this means,
13:18 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_03]: In 1985, an estimated 365 farmers were going out of business each day.
13:24 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's each day.
13:25 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, that sets the stage for why something had to be done.
13:30 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Because also when you're saying that this or this festival can't, maybe has some things in place.
13:37 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_03]: One of them is that we all eat.
13:39 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
13:40 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Which is everyone.
13:41 --> 13:50 [SPEAKER_03]: You're almost as a matter where you fall on the political spectrum or what, like everyone when it comes down to it, everyone is going to need farms.
13:50 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's really important.
13:51 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I would add to it to just, you know, government policy, kind of shifting government policy across multiple administrations was a major factor to also draw parallel with today.
14:02 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so like disappearing markets that were caused by government policy really hurt farmers.
14:08 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, monetary supply affected inflation and interest rates and things like that that really hurt farmers at the time and so here you have all these farmers who actually in the 1970s were doing pretty well in spite of a declining economy.
14:23 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_00]: but then are being foreclosed upon in shocking numbers like just was just saying in the 1980s.
14:31 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And so Bob Dylan is performing at live aid in July of 1985 and says something from the stage like, you know, maybe
14:39 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's possible, we could save a million or two dollars from the money that's raised here today and help the farmers pay off their loans, so they're not losing their farms.
14:48 --> 14:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Then Willie Nelson hears this.
14:50 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: He gets together with John Millenkamp and Neil Young, and in six weeks they put on the show in champagne and run away, and that's kind of what launched it.
14:58 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But we're also in a farm crisis right now.
15:00 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not so dissimilar from the 1980s.
15:02 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things like you talk about our work outside of the festival,
15:06 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a hotline that farmers can call for a variety of reasons, but a lot of the calls we're getting in this last year, according to our hotline team, are talking about this crisis, right, are mostly fiscal financial concerns, people feeling like they're being pushed off the land.
15:23 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, and are using language like, it feels like the farm crisis is back or it feels like the farm crisis never ended, you know?
15:31 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_06]: Now, when a farmer loses his land or her land or their land, this is such a naive question, so thank you in advance.
15:38 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_06]: What happens to that land does a corporation take it over and and do they like use the farm under their corporate brand?
15:47 --> 15:50 [SPEAKER_06]: Or what happens to a farmer's personality land that they lose?
15:51 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Usually when a farm is sold and gone, it never becomes a farm again.
15:56 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it'll become like a strip mall or a housing development.
16:01 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's rare that it stays a farm.
16:04 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not usually that the corporations are buying the farm.
16:07 --> 16:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's gross.
16:08 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_01]: like the situation the crisis is with small farmers in the sense that like there are farms, but there are mega corporations that are in increasingly large share of the food produced, right?
16:19 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that that's kind of part of what is being what the protests would have been about back then, right?
16:24 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It does the monetary policy and government policy favor the corporations, I guess.
16:28 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's it.
16:29 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I just don't know enough to be asking the right question.
16:31 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I think how it does.
16:32 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think then it was as big of a thing corporations in the food system.
16:37 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_03]: That's like another added layer.
16:38 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I'd say climate change and corporate dominance.
16:41 --> 16:43 [SPEAKER_03]: So two added layers took the current farm crisis.
16:44 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, I think some scholars would argue that what happens coming out of the 80s is you have a, there's like a credit act that helps to stop a lot of the foreclosures, right, that comes in 1987.
16:56 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Farm aid in its allies had a lot to do as kind of informing the congressional discussion about how that legislation was written in 1987, but I think a lot of scholars would argue that then in the next farm bill, this was kind of setting up the facilitation or kind of more rapid growth of industrial scale agriculture, so that within the next 10 years actually.
17:19 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But we move from, you know, this concern about foreclosures and farmers being pushed off the land to factory farming, right?
17:27 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first major factory farm protest takes place starting in like roughly 1995, also in Missouri incidentally, but also Iowa in Minnesota and other places like that.
17:38 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that has remained a concern of farm waves overall these years because it's only gotten worse right now you only have four or five companies.
17:45 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_00]: that control the production of like 80 to 90% of your pork and then four or five companies that do beef, you know, and chicken.
17:54 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So most of the food in Americans, you know, is controlled, the production is controlled by this small number of corporations as the family farmers and their hold on the market has continued to shrink.
18:06 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_06]: So would you say for those reasons because of increase in policies like that promote factory farming or big farming along with climate change, along with political pressure from our current administration, those are my words that this might be worse than the farming crisis that sparked
18:32 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the new worst of times, for sure.
18:34 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it hasn't been this bad in a long time.
18:37 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're right now in the middle of a fight over the farm bill, which is clearly being written again, to prop up industrial scale agriculture at the expense of small scale farmers.
18:49 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, climate change is huge.
18:51 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_03]: The thing with farming, it's always been, you know, they're at the whim of the weather farmers.
18:56 --> 18:58 [SPEAKER_03]: But now there's increased storms.
18:58 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_03]: There's every year here.
18:59 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the once in a century storm again, you know.
19:03 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's hard.
19:04 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_03]: There's these droughts, there's fires, there's floods, there's tornadoes, there ain't just hurricanes.
19:10 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_03]: It's nonstop.
19:11 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_06]: So what can we do?
19:13 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Quish, quick, easy question.
19:18 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_06]: and throwing our advocacy where we can, like what's something a ground level human can do to stop this what it feels like inevitable thing from happening.
19:30 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_06]: It's so depressing to say it that way, but you know, what can we do in our everyday lives to support local farms?
19:36 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a lot of things you can do, but one of it, one of the things that I think is a really good sound bite to think
19:45 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_03]: and your dollar.
19:47 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_03]: So you get to decide what you're buying, right?
19:50 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_03]: So you're gonna buy the beef from Brazil or you're gonna buy the beef from the farmer's market and maybe it's more expensive, but maybe less of it, but get the quality, you know, know the farmer, you can go to the market and get to know them.
20:03 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is all extremely hard because it's so expensive to just live now.
20:08 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, like with support of family, it's really hard to do, but
20:12 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_03]: even a little bit here and there if you can try to change a little bit of your spending, make a little more of a few more choices locally to support your community.
20:21 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's good advice.
20:22 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_06]: I think a lot of people feel like they might just throw their hands up and scream at the sky and say it's this is too big of a problem for me to solve.
20:29 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_06]: But these little choices we have every day can add up and rip it out and make a bigger impact.
20:34 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_06]: If we all do them even incrementally.
20:36 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_06]: So beyond,
20:40 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_06]: getting yourself to farm aid, which I intend to do.
20:42 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_06]: I think, and having that reminder for fronted of how we can impact our communities locally that might have a ripple effect elsewhere is really a good reminder.
20:52 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_06]: So thanks.
20:53 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, that reminds me when a farm goes out of business, it's devastating to that farm family.
20:59 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but it also has ripple effects in the community, the rural community.
21:04 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_03]: And what we saw after all of these farmers were being kicked off the land, maybe they left and they got different jobs.
21:12 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_03]: And then everything that they relied on, like the local tractor repair shop, or the store where they bought their feed, or
21:19 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, even the grocery store and medical centers, everything is reliant on having a rural community.
21:26 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_03]: And when everyone's leaving, then the schools have less people, churches have less people, everything.
21:31 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_03]: It kind of eroded the fabric of the rural countryside when the farmers were leaving their land.
21:36 --> 21:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And what I was going to say which is related to that is that if we're thinking about ourselves and what our own role can be as far me talks about, you know, trying to envision a vibrant local regional farm economy right one of the things that the festival does every year is it tries to model this.
21:55 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_00]: by swapping out all the factory farm food out of the venue that the venue serves all year long and bring in foods that sourced from family farmers locally and regionally who get paid a fair price and who produce that an exacting ecological standard right to just show like this can be done right.
22:15 --> 22:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And then one of the first things I took away from this scene, this in action, was that I'm thinking about myself as a parent and my kids going to school, where they're served just crap every single day.
22:27 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And I live in the center of Massachusetts where surrounded by farms, by farmers who are looking for markets.
22:33 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's one thing we can all do as we can demand of our school districts and our local governments.
22:39 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_00]: in our state governments and beyond that, the federal government to fund these kinds of programs where you can have farm to school, food programs, farm to hospitals, other kinds of farm to institutions so that we can build more permanent markets that the farmers can depend on, right?
22:56 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of outside this industrial scale system, which is an easy
23:01 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: but there are municipalities that do this and that would go a long way not only to providing markets that are better for our farmers to sustain them in these rural communities but it provides better food for our families.
23:14 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It teaches our kids about the value of food and of sourcing it locally, right?
23:19 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So like a whole kind of integrated educational system within this one thing of just trying to have a decent lunch at school.
23:26 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_06]: But even at the college level, there's so much, again, like this performative activism on campus, it reminds me of that old movie PCU, which I'm sure you've heard of.
23:35 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, we're just finding something to purchase and finding a cost to stand behind and we're rallying for like farm to table and the menus in the cafeteria are branded as such.
23:48 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_06]: But then you see the food come off the big trucks at the loading dock, you know?
23:52 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_06]: So,
23:53 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_06]: It's, I think the branding is really important.
23:55 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_06]: The optics are there, but it feels more performative than real, and everything's so budget-centered.
24:04 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_06]: It's hard to make those justifications for major institute, large institutions, but plenty of folks are doing it, and I think that hopefully the tide will turn that more municipalities and school districts will recognize the value of it,
24:19 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_06]: economic fabric of our communities.
24:22 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_06]: And it is the one thing that supersedes political ideology is the fact that we all need to nourish the flourish, which is one of my little soundbites from my psychology classes for sure, but it's a really great call to action to help initiate those policy changes in a broader level.
24:40 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that would be a good transition time to kind of flip back to the music connections and kind of what's going on right now.
25:03 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_01]: episode that you just had, that's launching this mini series, talked about Melanchamp.
25:09 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And Michael, I think you mentioned the song, Rain on the Scarecrow, and I had the videos of actual farmers that Melanchamp had met in this crisis, and I'll play a clip of the song.
25:19 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But when we were talking about figuring out kind of where we should go with this conversation, one of you mentioned that
25:27 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And Nicole has said, talked about the performative aspect to protests and stuff like, what was that like for him?
25:34 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Like why did these artists take this on very specifically?
25:37 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Why was why were they so connected to it?
25:40 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And like what can the rest of us Twitter warriors or whatever learn from that?
25:43 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's it's really interesting in this video is sort of it microcosm of that whole kind of movement within the kind of Americana Heartland Rock style.
25:53 --> 26:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, as a thing, Mellon camp has in common with Willie is that they grew up in rural America, right?
26:00 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not only that artists, which all of our artists seem to make reference to this at one point or another, you know, are on tour buses, Chris crossing the country all the time.
26:09 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So if they get to see
26:10 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_00]: more of the countries and most of us do, they get to meet a wider range of people, particularly, you know, Willie always talked about playing state fairs.
26:20 --> 26:27 [SPEAKER_00]: He could seize it, deepening of the farm crisis because he was seen the year after year, in hearing from people, you know, after his shows.
26:27 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But Melancham grew up in Seymour, Indiana,
26:30 --> 26:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And as he talks about on our podcast, he just saw all these small towns dying in southern Indiana and got to thinking about why was that happening and one of the farmers is in the in the introduction to the rain on the scarecrow video there's these three young farmers one of them is this brother and law and learned just from personal experience about what was causing this crisis, you know, and so that's where the song which he co wrote was his friend.
26:58 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_00]: George Green, who was a co-writer on a lot of his earlier songs they went to high school together, grew up in the same town.
27:05 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_00]: To the short answer is like there's a kind of authenticity of experience that some of these artists have, you know, as also having even if Mel and Gamp himself was in a farmer and his parents weren't farmers.
27:18 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_00]: he understood something about farming.
27:20 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He was surrounded by kids wearing FFA jackets.
27:23 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_00]: This was just part of the world he breathed in and then he could see it dying.
27:27 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And so wrote this protest song, you know, in a moment where it's things something seem to have clicked in him because that whole album and his neck couple albums are all just full of topical songs on issues that were of interest to him.
27:40 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Michael, on our podcast last week, you were talking about how revolutionary it was to have this type of video on MTV at the time.
27:49 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't see it live because I was too young at the time, but I don't know, I thought that was really fascinating.
27:55 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so I wasn't too young, I watched it a lot.
27:59 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: because I caught that wave right.
28:05 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you imagine 1980's MTV videos, if your audience knows anything about that, it's full of like a lot of hair metal bands, people wearing spandex.
28:15 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, a lot of hairspray being used.
28:18 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And then here's John Melanchamp starts, who's fantastically popular, right?
28:22 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_00]: At this point, you'd already written Jack and Diane and a lot of hit songs, right?
28:26 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he starts the video for this first thing a lot of his new album with three farmers standing in front of a tractor talking about the farm crisis.
28:34 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was totally unusual.
28:36 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it gets like any MTV video.
28:39 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, got replayed multiple times a day to millions of young people who I'm sure had no idea what the farm crisis was, you know, so probably did more than any artist to teach young people at least to returning into MTV, something about the kind of political culture of the moment they were living through.
29:00 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what is it about?
29:02 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, we know based on what you've been talking about, what was the context that caused the foreign protest, but what is it about the mid-80s in general that rock music and pop music felt like it had to speak out about something, like the charity rock thing, whether it's
29:21 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: obviously we've got live aid but also we are the world or band aid before and all these things and then you have these bands that are become associated with.
29:33 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_01]: not just protests, but sort of movements and fundraising, right, like whether it was you to act live aid, like then after that, like this iconic moment or whatever where he, the woman is being suffocated or whatever.
29:45 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And then later, Bono becomes like the guy associated with sort of activist artists, why then?
29:52 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That was the culture that led to even the notion that Willie and Neil and John would have had to do this festival.
30:01 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we could talk about this for a very long time.
30:04 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_06]: I have some theories.
30:06 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_06]: I think I just like, we should talk about it.
30:08 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, what does theory?
30:09 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_01]: What makes you think we don't want to talk about this for all of a sudden?
30:12 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really know what that means.
30:14 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_01]: The medium length answer, I mean.
30:15 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_06]: So this is what I think.
30:18 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_06]: I think we're a picture, 1985, year three years old, living in suburban Boston.
30:24 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_06]: This, like, exhibition, maybe you will age up, like say you're in high school.
30:30 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_06]: There's this culture of excess and you're also the child of someone that grew up during Vietnam probably right and like was part of that counter culture or at least adjacent to it.
30:42 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_06]: And maybe now your teenager, your bucket against authority, your bucket against the norm trying to move away from that culture of excess and looking for a place to put your energy, it seems to me reasonable to want to put it towards something that is so ground level.
30:59 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_06]: like this farming crisis to
31:03 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But far made is like, if we're saying that far made is the authentic one, that is almost a protest which I agree with, is kind of a denunciation of the ones that aren't authentic, right?
31:14 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So, and it wasn't NCT teenagers that were fueling, we are the world.
31:19 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And the famine, fighting, and Ethiopian, like that stuff was more mainstream pop, probably those people's, and maybe it's guilty, hippies that have aged out of being hippies, I don't know what, Jessica Michael, like,
31:30 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it just that?
31:31 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it like that's the 80s angst or I feel like it's the older people that would have been really primed for that in the era?
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's everybody.
31:38 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I wrote a whole book about this about the 70s and 80s and about how as you're suggesting the kind of the political culture, this like culture of activism.
31:48 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_00]: was breezed in by the whole country as we're talking about the United States in a ways that people didn't even understand about themselves.
31:57 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So then accompanied by what I think everyone pretty much agrees is the United States into cline.
32:04 --> 32:08 [SPEAKER_00]: starting by the mid-1970s right in continuing into the 1980s.
32:08 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of grievance about this kind of falling off of, I don't know, American promise, right?
32:18 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And like historians write about it as the end of the New Deal order and this sense of kind of we're all in this together and a more individualism that's being privileged by new administrations.
32:30 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it seems like
32:34 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_00]: farmers, for example, who may have hated the hippies, like I'm generalizing, right, but may have hated the hippies in the antiwar movement or something like that, still understood the tactics of activism, right?
32:48 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So like the blockade that we're going to talk about comes right out of like the labor movement, the civil rights movement, the anti-vietnam war movement, but is being carried out
33:01 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_00]: involved in activism or wanting to get involved in activism, but just feel like we've been doing everything right, we've been following all the rules and we're still getting screwed over and no one seems to care, you know, and you know, there's a difference between when it happens to you directly, like you maybe you're in a rural community that's dying or you're a farmer who's
33:24 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_00]: potentially going to lose your land.
33:25 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That's different.
33:26 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Your mobilizing around that is different, perhaps, and mobilizing on behalf of starving Ethiopians.
33:33 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
33:33 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's some common thread there, particularly in the manifestation of the protest, you know.
33:39 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I'm really interested in that, especially, you know, I'm of the opinion that to have access to protest or the the means to protest is privileged a little bit like if you have time you can protest and farmers probably don't have a lot of time.
33:55 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_06]: So the fact that they were taking time out of their day, which is stacked.
34:00 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_06]: to protest it just as more meaning to it for me, but it feels more genuine that it's not a choice.
34:07 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_06]: It's not performative.
34:08 --> 34:13 [SPEAKER_06]: We haven't, this is our, our last attempt, really, to save our families and to save our towns.
34:14 --> 34:22 [SPEAKER_06]: And that feels so powerful, more so than a bunch of, like affluent 80s babies looking for a place to put their energy.
34:22 --> 34:26 [SPEAKER_06]: It feels more like rugged in genuine in a way that,
34:26 --> 34:27 [SPEAKER_06]: makes you listen.
34:27 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you kind of have to pay attention to it.
34:29 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm eager to hear about this blockade.
34:31 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Can you tell us about it?
34:33 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Are we ready to do it?
34:35 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Should we?
34:35 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, sure.
34:36 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_06]: Should we?
34:36 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm on the edge of motion.
34:40 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_01]: For the full story though, people should listen to it.
34:42 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, for sure.
34:42 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_03]: We just need like the highlights.
34:44 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think something that's really amazing that kind of flows from what you were just talking about is how it comes from all this other types of activism, but a lot of those activists joined the farmer, so there were labor unions.
35:00 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_03]: There were civil rights movement leaders, the Reverend Jesse Jackson came, then there were artists like John Mellon camp, so it seemed like it was multi-racial, it wasn't just the farmers, it was tons of different people took on this cause because they saw the desperation with these farmers had and another thing to think about.
35:20 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_03]: is that the farmers, this is their home in their land and maybe they could be like fourth generation on this land and for it to end with them, the just think of the devastation of that to like leave.
35:35 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And you're the last one in the line.
35:36 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think there is a lot behind it.
35:38 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_03]: The public could
35:41 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was going to say at that point that you just made is that I've just seen this on like a more perfect union video or something where someone was talking about the same thing.
35:49 --> 35:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm the, I forget what generation he was.
35:52 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was, um, I think he identified as a Republican and was just like, but I, I, he was opposed to the, to the Iran war.
36:00 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, I, I can't be the last one, you know, to farm this land.
36:05 --> 36:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, like the psychological
36:10 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_00]: you know like when we get into talking about melon camp son ran on the scarecrow pretty clear as if the blood on the plow line and uh ninety seven crosses planted in the courthouse yard these are references not only to farms going out of business but to
36:25 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_00]: an epidemic of farm suicides that we're taking place at the time.
36:30 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_00]: All of this is wrapped up, I think, in the backdrop of this blockade, which started with an abusive, you know, USDA official who is kind of callous.
36:41 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_00]: and relentless in kind of going after farmers to foreclose on them.
36:46 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But all the rest of this came out, you know, in the course of the protest.
36:51 --> 36:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And 145 days as you're just suggesting for farmers to be able to show up and participate in a protest.
36:58 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a stained way through planting season, you know, into the summer is an awful lot to ask them.
37:04 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We're any of the artists that were involved in this movement at the point directly involved with the protests.
37:09 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_01]: going to the picket lines or playing or donating or wasn't mostly through the festival and like videos.
37:16 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And while I guess this video would have been a year before.
37:18 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, it's mostly through the festival.
37:20 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, showing up to try to raise the money.
37:23 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, the second farm aid takes place while this blockade is still going on on July 4th, 1986.
37:28 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It happens in Texas.
37:30 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so the far-made founders were showing up at protests, you know, and also going, you know, the following spring Willie Nelson and John Melanchamp going testify on Capitol Hill before a Senate subcommittee.
37:43 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're kind of consistently showing up in a way that I think is pretty unusual.
37:49 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Was there a cost to them?
37:51 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_01]: For those artists who were already pretty well-known, obviously Willie Nelson's been famous for 10 years, probably, and he always will be here.
37:57 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_01]: But was there a cost like did they, were there people angry with them for this?
38:03 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, they all get flack to their credit.
38:06 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They all ignore it.
38:08 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and some of it was pretty scary kind of flack because there were some hateful folks circulating around these,
38:15 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_00]: movements to trying to co-op them and didn't like some of the things that some of these artists were saying in terms of like audience it's a little bit harder to gauge like there's not that immediate Instagram post reaction or Twitter reaction or something that artists have today they can see how many followers they lose you know within a day after saying something controversial back then you would have gotten letters in the mail I guess
38:39 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_00]: saying you're a jerk and I don't agree with you.
38:41 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have any good data on that, but they've all talked about it.
38:45 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that there's of course you have haters, but you have to just stay true to your authentic self, I guess.
38:51 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_06]: It's baffling to me.
38:53 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_06]: Who's sending hate and anti farm hate mail?
38:56 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Like who's pro monthsanto?
38:59 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_06]: Like who I don't get it?
39:01 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm like missing who those people are that are like keyboard warriors like how dare you willing Nelson support our local farmers get out of here like who's that guy?
39:10 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I think some people want like, you know, they're shocked that some of these artists are political.
39:15 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, like having farm aid comes out against every administration when they do something against farmers.
39:22 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_03]: But people don't see that and we see what we're going after at the moment.
39:26 --> 39:27 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
39:27 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a political act instead of a, we're just supporting fair policies for farmers, no matter who is in charge of the administration.
39:35 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_06]: Was there one administration that was like all in for farmers?
39:39 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_06]: It was like the best one.
39:42 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_01]: The Washington administration, maybe Jefferson like to farm Jefferson was notably very pro planters which which means plantations Maybe which is not a good thing, but romantic Who's like top tier like Jimmy Carter?
39:55 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
39:56 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't even know probably not
39:59 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean Carter gets a lot of grief because he did the Russian grain embargo because of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and so that disappeared a whole market for farmers.
40:09 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yikes.
40:11 --> 40:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
40:11 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean they all have kind of strikes against them no matter even if they did something good.
40:16 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like the Roosevelt administration did a lot of great things.
40:20 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of reforming some of the bureaucracy, but then also, you know, didn't extend like the National Labor Relations Act to include agricultural workers, you know?
40:30 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_06]: What about like Michelle Obama with all the fresh food and schools?
40:33 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, that's gonna come for something.
40:35 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
40:36 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
40:36 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_06]: Just pro-bama, I think.
40:39 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're asking about who the haters are, there are so many bad actors who are interested in pitting farmers against one another.
40:49 --> 40:55 [SPEAKER_00]: like geographically, racially in terms of scale or whatever it is that they grow.
40:55 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like if this farmer's benefiting then you're being hurt somehow, right?
41:00 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That's an easy way to stoke division, you know, and to win political points.
41:05 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's more like that kind of thing.
41:07 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_06]: And we've been doing that throughout history.
41:08 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm like I'm don't need to tell you what like the idea of putting people against each other.
41:12 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_06]: That's the whole, that's all of it.
41:14 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:14 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Is there like stratification in, sorry, I have all these sociology questions I don't do, like is there like a social stratification in farmers like what farmer What type of farmer is like the best farmer like that has like the most street cred like cattle farm rancher Street cred in terms of what
41:34 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, like, what type of street like in it?
41:36 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_06]: For the other foreigners.
41:38 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_06]: I was interested when you said, like, pitting farmers against each other.
41:42 --> 41:49 [SPEAKER_06]: Like that really got my imagination cooking, like it started thinking like the sharks and the jets, like a west side story situation.
41:49 --> 41:52 [SPEAKER_06]: It was wondering, like, who would win?
41:52 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you were inviting them to pit farmers against each other.
41:57 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like my fate clear, we should not be doing.
42:00 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_06]: I know, I know Mark, but this is where my head goes.
42:03 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_06]: I have an overactive imagination.
42:06 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_06]: Imagine a pig farmer versus a cattle farmer, like in a mortal combat situation.
42:11 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're all really strong and that's what I'm saying, wild amounts of work and like soybean farmers that they have to come for something so versatile, you know, but I would think that the different farm types are more vulnerable to or closing things like that has to be true based on whatever the local situation is whether it's climate or monetary policy, right?
42:35 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_03]: like corn is subsidized in a way that maybe other grains aren't right that's an example there correct right it's a lot harder to go against the grain to buck the system so to speak you know and do something different.
42:50 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_03]: But then sometimes it works out for you and your markets, like, you know, it's really rough to be a dairy farmer right now.
42:57 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think it's a little bit easier if you're tapping into the markets that secure a higher value, like organic dairy, things like that.
43:07 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_03]: But one thing I was gonna say is maybe it's not pinning farmers against each other, you know.
43:12 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_03]: wrestling match, but I think it's the public saying this type of farmer is better than this type and one thing that I do have to say about that is that even the so-called corporate farmers, they are families and they are in some ways family, most farms are family farmers, but
43:32 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_03]: they're stuck in a bad system.
43:34 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're trying to change the entire system.
43:36 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's not the farmers, they're not like a problematic, they're stuck.
43:41 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_03]: They have no other choice.
43:43 --> 43:49 [SPEAKER_03]: They have a company controlling them, or this is what's making money, soybeans right now, so they're doing that.
43:50 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not like they're a bad farmer versus the person down the street making growing tomatoes.
43:56 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_06]: I was really hoping you were going to lean into my model combat analogy and like we could set up avatars for each farmer with like choice weapons or outfits.
44:05 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
44:08 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it would be a farmer versus a billionaire.
44:11 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:12 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what you're looking for.
44:33 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there something else we should be talking about in terms of the musicians and how that has changed over time and it's always seems to be kind of Americana artists like why is that although I have to say I looked at the first line up and x played.
44:47 --> 44:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And so actually, can I just read the first line up?
44:50 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_01]: The first line up was crazy.
44:52 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_01]: If this is long, everybody, you can skip forward 30 seconds or a minute if you don't like to be amazed.
45:00 --> 45:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But then like we have certain outliers, and I'm curious if you can kind of tell the story of that how that maybe changed over time or didn't.
45:07 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So far made, 1985.
45:10 --> 45:11 [SPEAKER_01]: This is unabridged.
45:11 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Albeda Porter.
45:13 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Alabama, White-Axton, The Beach Boys, The Blasters, Bonjovie, Jimmy Buffett, Glenn Campbell, Johnny Cash, David Allen Coe, John Conley, Charlie Daniels Band, John Denver, Bob Dylan, John Fogerti, Fourner, Vince Gill, Verngazden, Arlo Guthrie, Sammy Hagar, Merle Haggard, Darrell Hall, Emmy Lou Harris, Don Henley, Wailin Jennings, Billy Joel,
45:37 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Randy Newman.
45:38 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_01]: We have just now crossed possibly in the second half of the alphabet.
45:41 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait, no, that's that order.
45:42 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Randy Newman, George Jones, Ricky Lee Jones, BB Keane, Carol King, Chris Christofferson, he we Lewis, lone justice, Loretta Lynn, Roger McGinn, John Mellon Camp, Roger Miller, Johnny Mitchell, Nitty-gritty dirt band, Willie Nelson, Roy Orbison, Tom Petty, and
46:00 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_01]: The heartbreakers, Charlie Pride, Bonnie Rape, Lou Reed, Kenny Rogers, Brian Setser, Sissy Spasik, Tanya Tucker, Eddie Vett, Sissy Spasik, Tanya Tucker, Eddie Van Halen, Debra Winger, The Winter's Brothers Band, Neil Young, Dave Millsap, Johnny Lye, Judy Rodman, and I mentioned X, LA Hardcore Punk Band X.
46:24 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So what a crazy festival that was.
46:26 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_06]: and David Lee Roth and Sammy Hagar, like, together.
46:31 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, David, David, David Ross wasn't there.
46:34 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just, it was the first time Sammy Hagar and Eddie Van Halen.
46:37 --> 46:39 [SPEAKER_06]: I've been here, I'm sorry.
46:39 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm too young, that's the problem.
46:41 --> 46:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
46:41 --> 46:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there some David Lee Ross, Sammy Hagar collab album out there that never came out?
46:46 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, live fun, Farmed.
46:48 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
46:49 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_06]: You like called them up?
46:50 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, how adjacent are you to like a Willie Nelson?
46:54 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, can we call him right now?
46:56 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_06]: Could you call Neil Young right now?
46:58 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Have you ever met them?
46:59 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_00]: We can not call them right now.
47:02 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_03]: That a lot of that.
47:03 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_03]: We interviewed a lot of artists for our podcast, which is an amazing thing.
47:07 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_06]: It must be amazing.
47:09 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Because that list is like, it's top tier.
47:13 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_06]: Bonny rate.
47:13 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it goes fast.
47:14 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But some of those folks still play, but it's also has evolved.
47:17 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But it does stay to that kind of Americana vibe.
47:20 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure you have as much hardcore punk in there.
47:22 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_01]: As you tid with that one artist back in 1985.
47:26 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, is that just the connection to the land and kind of regional affiliations?
47:31 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And that kind of thing?
47:32 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Or at this point is that expectation of your donors and your audience and your, you know, that sort of situation.
47:39 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's more the latter.
47:41 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't play, you know, 60 to 80 seat stadiums anymore.
47:45 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
47:46 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Normal year, like we'll have this year, we'll play something more like 20 to 22 amphitheater outdoor amphitheater.
47:53 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's been the model pretty much since the late
47:56 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_00]: 90s with the exception of last year where we did play a football stadium at the University of Minnesota and had almost 40 people because it was the 40th anniversary.
48:05 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the lineup leans more heavily kind of Americana.
48:09 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for a variety of reasons, you know, starting with our board artists, you know, and also as you were saying at the end, like that's kind of what people have come to expect.
48:18 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you say anything about what we got until September, right?
48:21 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But is there anybody announced so far for your lineup this year, 2026?
48:24 --> 48:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the board artists, you know, you know, it's like two hours ago and it's coming soon.
48:30 --> 48:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, it's not announced yet.
48:32 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:33 --> 48:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So the reason I'm reasonably sure I can say Willie Nelson, Neil Young, John Mellon Camp Dave Massey's Margot Price and his annual rate lift will all be there.
48:43 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_06]: They're in a lot of the promotional and like the images, like sure.
48:46 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:47 --> 48:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And then after that, we'll just have to wait and see.
48:50 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
48:50 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, Dave will probably play with Tim.
48:51 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_06]: They play together a lot.
48:53 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
48:53 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
48:54 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:54 --> 48:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Usually.
48:56 --> 48:56 [SPEAKER_03]: The good old days.
48:57 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_03]: They're so massively talented.
48:58 --> 48:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Who needs that?
48:59 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Mark, you know my dad, you've met my dad.
49:02 --> 49:05 [SPEAKER_03]: And he'll like sit there and study their guitar playing.
49:05 --> 49:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And then try to copy it.
49:07 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_03]: Like he just, because they're so good.
49:09 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
49:09 --> 49:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He sounds like he's retired now.
49:12 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That's such, that's very retired dad energy, no, that's awesome.
49:17 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really, yeah, I can picture it.
49:19 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean, before we wrap up here, this has been really fascinating conversation.
49:22 --> 49:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there some other angle that we're leaving on the table, the dinner table about, you know, the artists and protests and the shut up and seeing element that I'm sure some of these artists especially now here on the internet?
49:35 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it is so different now to be a young artist and have social media.
49:42 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we were talking about the letter writing.
49:44 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_03]: You have to get paper, sit down, write your thoughts.
49:47 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Get a staff.
49:48 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Go to the post up.
49:49 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
49:49 --> 49:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Now all you have to do is just like,
49:52 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_03]: sign on to the to Instagram.
49:54 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_03]: It's probably an already signed in automatically in your phone and just like say something hateful, right?
49:58 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_03]: So and half of it only bots too.
50:01 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_03]: So they deal with a lot now, which I'm sure they've always dealt with, but it's been a little bit more like fringe or take full little more time to get to them now.
50:12 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_03]: So immediate.
50:13 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_06]: It seems like it takes a lot more bravery now to be political as an artist and the expectation and the baseline is to just shut up and sing and to make an active choice.
50:26 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_06]: To alienate a bunch of people based on expressing your ideas is valid and takes a lot of bravery and honor.
50:33 --> 50:38 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, even I know that this isn't the place to start talking about Taylor Swift, but it's about to happen.
50:38 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_06]: So buckle up, but this idea that when she came out against, when she's first started saying political things, she had to convince her whole team to let her speak.
50:47 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't think that Willie or Neil are John who are first name basis now, but I don't think that they had to do that as much, you know, to convince people to give them the mic.
51:00 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I also do think that it is a little bit gendered.
51:03 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, you think of the Dixie chicks.
51:05 --> 51:07 [SPEAKER_03]: That's where the shut up and thing comes from, right?
51:08 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_03]: People expect tailored to be this little country star, especially in the time at that time.
51:14 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think with the chicks, example, I mean, that's interesting because it's country, right?
51:19 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know some of your artist's country isn't necessarily the most accurate, but it's,
51:23 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It's adjacent, right, to some of it to country and there might be sort of political overtones to protesting at all, even if what you're protesting is really chiefly a non-partisan issue.
51:35 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Clearly the chick's situation and that was an anti George Bush comment they had made, which was sort of maybe more reasonably interpreted as partisan, but country radio never forgave them for that.
51:46 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Like their career in terms of the mainstream success was kind of ended by that.
51:50 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So I do think nowadays, you know, I mentioned, oh, why do they all have to be our Americano?
51:55 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just because the audience, but the truth is, like, if it was a bunch of punk bands, that wouldn't be controversial, just because everybody assumes your punk band will be protesting, right?
52:04 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's unfair.
52:06 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to paint in too broad of a brush, but there is an expectation in certain genres that you aren't going to
52:13 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_01]: ruffle feathers as much and and show up at a picket line or things like that.
52:18 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously will he knows it had a lot of cache at that point in cultural capital to spend.
52:24 --> 52:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But it can't be easy to some of these artists are probably especially the newer artists are having to weigh possibly a one day hit song that breaks them into the mainstream beyond sort of their current
52:37 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the whole republicans by shoes thing, right, that Jordan said, like kind of applies here too.
52:43 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it's also like, you know, some artists might attach to a political cause to validate their authenticity.
52:52 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Think it's true, like, within country and Americana.
52:55 --> 53:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there have always been these kinds of divisions, there's a whole literature on this and a lot of it's like, hey, don't forget there have always been kind of progressive and left-leaning country artists because everybody acts like it's a kind of conservative monolith or something.
53:11 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's true.
53:12 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of it's hard to categorize because I think like artists express their politics, either in their music or in statements from the stage or things like that.
53:21 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And ways that aren't particularly contrived, they're just kind of expressing them almost in an unfiltered way, like on a stage of some kind.
53:30 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And if it doesn't fit neatly into our pre-existing political categories, that makes the punditocracy uncomfortable and eager to kind of cut them down, like for being somehow inconsistent or something when they're perfectly consistent in their own minds.
53:49 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Johnny Cash, I said this
53:54 --> 54:12 [SPEAKER_00]: had a television show at the peak of his popularity, and, fortunately, for his audience, had no inhibitions about working out his own confusion over the tumultuous issues of the times in the leaving the sixties and early seventies, and evolved in the way he thought about certain issues.
54:12 --> 54:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But that brought in all kinds of criticism about how he was totally inconsistent and talking out of both sides of his mouth and people were suggesting that this was all motivated by careerism or something like that.
54:26 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_00]: When there's nothing in the sources to indicate that that was true at all.
54:29 --> 54:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think if he has lived in a time of social media, he would have been absolutely eviscerated, you know, by the Twitter body.
54:37 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just trying to imagine that Johnny Cashman Instagram.
54:42 --> 54:43 [SPEAKER_06]: What a waste that would do well.
54:44 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_01]: People want to know more.
54:45 --> 54:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Check out the podcast and also go see Farmeid.
54:49 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Where's Farmeid?
54:50 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Where's it going to be?
54:50 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_01]: You know that at least.
54:52 --> 54:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to plan a full year.
54:54 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So that actually that to stay secret.
54:58 --> 55:05 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a secret until it's not, yeah, but usually it's like a couple of months before you know, exciting.
55:06 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_06]: Can I ask where you guys ever in bands?
55:08 --> 55:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Michael, you have like a band vibe to you.
55:10 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_06]: You have like a band vibe.
55:12 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a completely failed musician.
55:15 --> 55:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.
55:16 --> 55:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've been just trying to cultivate it in my children.
55:19 --> 55:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to like and live vicariously through them.
55:22 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:22 --> 55:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I come at this more from the Food and Agriculture, I am not really a musician.
55:29 --> 55:31 [SPEAKER_06]: I support you guys if you want to start a band, I think you should.
55:31 --> 55:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
55:32 --> 55:32 [SPEAKER_06]: You're welcome.
55:33 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I am obsessed with record store day that we're having just experienced that.
55:36 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_06]: Did you get anything cool in the last record store day?
55:39 --> 55:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I mean, I didn't get everything, but I was really wanting the Neil Young and Chrome hearts.
55:46 --> 55:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Why record?
55:48 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And the 13th floor elevators record, I wanted to get the Tom Petty at the Paradise, which is in Boston, 1978.
55:55 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine that.
55:56 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And so far.
55:57 --> 55:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Dream show.
55:58 --> 55:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I will track it down.
55:59 --> 56:04 [SPEAKER_06]: My husband got, he's a big John Fushante fan, so he got like all the John Fushante records.
56:04 --> 56:06 [SPEAKER_06]: And now he's trying to like sell them on eBay.
56:06 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm like, what ever.
56:07 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just kidding.
56:09 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm like, there's what he sells them.
56:11 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_01]: He won't have them.
56:11 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_06]: I know.
56:12 --> 56:14 [SPEAKER_06]: No, he bought extras.
56:14 --> 56:15 [SPEAKER_06]: Like he bought one for him.
56:15 --> 56:16 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I can hear that.
56:16 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_06]: And then like one for me, because we each need our own for some reason.
56:21 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_06]: pretty cool.
56:22 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's paying for his habit.
56:24 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's what she keeps saying.
56:27 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_06]: But he ends up just giving them away to his friends.
56:28 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't know.
56:30 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_06]: There's something about the shows and that's attractive, I guess.
56:33 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_06]: Let's take it.
56:35 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_06]: I was so nice to chat with you guys.
56:36 --> 56:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Today, thanks for taking time to tap with us about such an important cause.
56:40 --> 56:42 [SPEAKER_06]: We're really appreciative of you all in the work that you do.
56:42 --> 56:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
56:43 --> 56:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
56:43 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And in pleasure.
56:44 --> 56:45 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
56:45 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So if people want to listen, they can look up against the grain, the Farm Aid podcast, but also there's online social media, web, anything people shouldn't have to.
56:54 --> 57:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Go to farmade.org backslashpodcast for our podcast and just farmade.org for
57:05 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And Jessica does a brilliant job of every episode building out a web page for each episode that has, you know, not only the transcripts and the bios and photos of everyone, but lots of additional resources and stuff too.
57:18 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very cool.
57:18 --> 57:20 [SPEAKER_01]: That's so lorehouse.
57:20 --> 57:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're a part of a.
57:21 --> 57:27 [SPEAKER_01]: a network of mostly pop culture TV, film books, podcasts, where they only music one.
57:27 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, people will make in-depth guides of the TV shows and stuff.
57:31 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_06]: It sounds like I was trying to get inside Mars.
57:34 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_06]: I'd be like, don't get in the ideas.
57:36 --> 57:38 [SPEAKER_06]: We don't have band width for that.
57:38 --> 57:40 [SPEAKER_06]: literally and figuratively.
57:40 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_01]: We've already talked, we've got to out, we're outsourcing the like, the listening lists.
57:45 --> 57:50 [SPEAKER_01]: People have to either train their AI agents or the listeners are going to have to do that stuff.
57:51 --> 57:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's enough just to produce this.
57:53 --> 57:55 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, guys, good talking to you.
57:56 --> 58:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nice to talk to you.
58:02 --> 58:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you.
58:07 --> 58:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Please leave us a rating and a review and don't forget to follow.
58:11 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_01]: We're never music pot on social media and you can also send us an email at nevermusicpot at gmail.com.
58:18 --> 58:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Never mind the music is part of the lore hounds network.
58:21 --> 58:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Join the conversation by going to the lorehounds.com and hop on our Discord server.
58:27 --> 58:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.