Another Questlove doc? That means another bonus episode! Lorehounds contributor Jean joins Mark to talk about the new documentary, Earth, Wind & Fire (To Be Celestial vs That’s the Weight of the World). They talk about the many sides - good and regrettable - of the band’s mastermind, Maurice White, and all the things that went into making this band one of the best to ever do it. We talk funk, disco, hip-hop, and the 70’s like only this band could tie together. Back on schedule next week!
Music heard in this episode: Earth, Wind & Fire - “Serpentine Fire”, Earth, Wind & Fire - “Jupiter”, Earth, Wind & Fire - “Shining Star”, Earth, Wind & Fire - “The Way You Move (feat. Kenny G)”, Earth, Wind & Fire - “The Way I Feel (feat. Kelly Rowland, Big Boi & Sleepy Brown)”, Kool & The Gang - “Celebration”, Kool & The Gang - “Get Down On It”, Earth, Wind & Fire - “Boogie Wonderland (feat. The Emotions)”, Earth, Wind & Fire - “September”, Earth, Wind & Fire - “Sing a Song”, Westside Gunn - “Kitchen Lights (feat. Stove God Cooks)”
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00:00 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, everyone, Nicole here.
00:01 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a special bonus episode for you today.
00:04 --> 00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a great new documentary out about Earth Wind and Fire, called Earth Wind and Fire, to be celestial versus that's the way of the world.
00:13 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_00]: This is directed by a claimed musician and filmmaker Amir Questlove Thompson, it premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival and recently debuted on HBO and Max.
00:23 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems really, really great, everything Quest Love does is, but since I know nothing of this band and Mark is very eager to talk about this documentary, we've tapped our friend John, one of our frequent Laura Hound's collaborators to join him for this conversation.
00:38 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you next week for our regularly scheduled programming.
00:42 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.
00:54 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, I'm Mark.
00:55 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm John.
00:56 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.
00:56 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_05]: And this is never mind the music bonus episode.
00:59 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_05]: John, so happy to have you.
01:01 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_05]: Nicole is not here.
01:04 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_05]: You are my partner in crime for this episode.
01:07 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_05]: The listeners all just heard in intro from her, explaining what they were about to hear, at least slightly.
01:13 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_05]: But thank you for this episode, John.
01:16 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_04]: No, thank you for having me.
01:17 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm glad to be here talking about this doc with you.
01:21 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_05]: For those of you who aren't a part of the Laura Hound's community broadly, but listen to our show, you should definitely go listen to Marjan, because you are one of the main contributors.
01:33 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_05]: I guess you're, I'm here, I'm there, I'm kind of everywhere.
01:38 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_05]: That's right, aside from, you know, Alicia and David and John and the people, other people, folks here,
01:48 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Or yes, recently anything to do with House of the Dragon, you are there to you are there always comics all that good superhero fantasy stuff you'll find yeah you can find me talking on most of it so yeah
02:01 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_05]: You also may be like earth wind and fire, which is why we're here.
02:05 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_05]: So at the end, we can shout out what exact episodes people should check out recently.
02:09 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_05]: You've been on, but a frequent contributor to the Lohound's community and also you messaged everybody last week saying, and the number of music discord channel saying, has anybody seen the earth wind and fire documentary?
02:28 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_04]: So, so I put it in the music and I was like, you know what?
02:32 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, I think this needs to be, you know, broadcast a little bit more.
02:37 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So, I know you guys do amazing, amazing stuff, right?
02:41 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So, I'm just like, I wonder if they've seen it.
02:43 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_04]: And if they haven't, they should.
02:45 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_04]: So, I just popped it in there and yeah, it got the ball rolling.
02:49 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And I hope a lot more folks were able to watch it.
02:52 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_05]: And I was immediately like, okay, we're going to talk about this, right?
02:56 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
02:57 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
02:58 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_05]: And this is a much faster process than sometimes our episodes are, which is to say, let's watch it and talk.
03:04 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_05]: So Nicole can't be here because this thing came out in June.
03:09 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_05]: So it's been out for less than a month.
03:11 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_05]: You can catch it on HBO Max.
03:13 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_05]: Folks, normally, this would make a great sidetrack, right?
03:17 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_05]: Or, I mean, gosh, should probably do an earth wind and fire episode.
03:21 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_05]: In season three, you ready, but we are still wrapping up season two.
03:25 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_05]: And season two still has a few artists we have to cover.
03:28 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_05]: So there's no room for an earth wind and fire episode yet.
03:31 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_05]: So bonus episode, because what?
03:34 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_05]: Am I going to wait until season three starts in September?
03:36 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_05]: And we're going to talk about this thing four months after it came out.
03:40 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Here we are, and gosh, probably got to do worth when in fire as a full episode later.
03:45 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_05]: But we'll talk about it here.
03:46 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_05]: So first, can we calibrate you as a musician or music fan?
03:52 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Because what I do know about you is you are a New Yorker, which makes me think punk rock, hip hop, experimental performance art, and maybe indie sleeves from the 2000s?
04:03 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_05]: What is it, what do you want to do?
04:04 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_05]: What's your story?
04:05 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_04]: All of the above man, all of the above, I grew up in Brooklyn, native New Yorker, youngest of six siblings.
04:14 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_04]: So, off the times, I had to find my niche in our household, right?
04:21 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So, I had to carve out
04:23 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_04]: somewhere to be me.
04:26 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
04:27 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And I would, we had this like old, what do you call those things?
04:31 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Like a bookshelf, a multipurpose entertainment center.
04:37 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And it had like underneath, there was like a little space.
04:41 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_04]: So one of my sisters put a throw pillow in that underneath space and there was a radio and speakers there and I would just crawl in that underneath space from when I was I don't know how old and listen to the radio.
04:56 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_04]: And because there was nothing else going on, everybody my sister's with our soap operas, my mom and dad, you know, when they came home, they were busy doing their things.
05:05 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_04]: So it was just like, all right, this is me.
05:07 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So in that entertainment center, under throw pillow with a comic book, with a book and a radio on, from when I was, I don't know how new York City at that time,
05:18 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_04]: The radio was everything, you know, you didn't have, I can invite records and things of that nature.
05:24 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_04]: So listening to the radio is how I got me.
05:28 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
05:29 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_04]: And at that time, radio wasn't segmented as it is now.
05:34 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_04]: So you could listen to a radio station and hear like everything.
05:39 --> 05:41 [SPEAKER_04]: There was no, you know, this is the R&B station.
05:41 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_04]: This is only the pop station.
05:43 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_04]: This is only the rock station in New York City.
05:47 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_04]: People were playing everything.
05:49 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_04]: We had a lot of background just music has always been a steady beat in my life.
05:56 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome.
05:56 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_05]: So where's Earthwin and fire fit in with that?
05:58 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't get into them specifically until sometime in the 90s.
06:04 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_04]: because quite honestly, I wasn't listening to that.
06:07 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_04]: It was around, but I wasn't listening to it.
06:10 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_04]: I only started to really listen to 70s so funk when I started to wonder and wanting to know what hip-hop, what rap sample, what the sample's been done.
06:25 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_05]: So what was Dale Sampling?
06:28 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, what was not Sampling?
06:31 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it was PE Sampling.
06:33 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_04]: These are the things that made me and my friends want to go to the record store and look up records.
06:38 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_04]: So we were actively searching for how was that beat made.
06:43 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Right?
06:43 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's how I got into not just earth's wind and fire, but also a whole lot of the 70s so R&B rock punk things.
06:56 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_04]: during that time period.
06:57 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very much been a journey, I think, because now I look back on it.
07:03 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm always torn between 70s and 80s as the best decade of music, but it really started then when rap became the blueprint for the background in my life wanting to know where the disms it come from and that's how I got into it.
07:19 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, is it safe to say that the 70s are the best decade of earth wind and fire?
07:24 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_05]: No.
07:26 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, of course.
07:27 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they've got they've got to sell some of the 80s stuff is cool.
07:31 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, did you hear that they have 2 stuff?
07:33 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that band still don't come back to it.
07:36 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_05]: So no, just my my situation for me.
07:39 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_05]: It's more like 2s when I started listening.
07:41 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_05]: There was a lot of anti-discoy sort of vibe when I was in high school and whatever.
07:47 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_05]: Like in the 90s.
07:48 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Like it wasn't until I freed myself of that.
07:51 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_05]: But everyone in fire is kind of like designed in the lab to be everything I'd like.
07:55 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_05]: You've got the multiple lead singers that sing in awesome harmony.
07:59 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_05]: You've got really crazy.
08:02 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like catchy tunes, but really technically proficient and complicated.
08:07 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to say complicated like that's a good thing, but it's like jazzy and it's really smart.
08:12 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a good thing.
08:13 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_05]: Ultimately like a three note catchy tune, right?
08:16 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
08:17 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_05]: And put on top of that.
08:19 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_05]: just deep groove just so dancey like some of that stuff like serpentine fire.
08:41 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_05]: Some of the, it's just like heavy, you know, there's something heavy about it.
08:44 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_05]: That is so dancey and just it's kind of like everything that's awesome about the late 70s, honestly, without most of it, without going as far as some of the excess that maybe can turn people off to that era.
08:57 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_05]: So this doc personally didn't really know anything about this band side from a few things that might come up later.
09:03 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_05]: But like, can we start like the title?
09:06 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_05]: What is that?
09:08 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_05]: To its earthwind and fire to be celestial versus that's the weight of the world.
09:14 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_05]: What do you think?
09:15 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_05]: What is that?
09:16 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_05]: What is this doc like?
09:17 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_05]: So this is a quest love doc everybody.
09:19 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_05]: So if you saw the SNL one, I did not watch his slide in the family's stone doc get that one.
09:26 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_05]: I want to see.
09:27 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_04]: You also did the doc call the summer of Seoul, which is amazing as well.
09:31 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Quest love has really been fitting his foot into the documentary music.
09:36 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_04]: The second one maybe third career.
09:38 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_04]: I guess we could say.
09:39 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, exactly exactly.
09:41 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, that title.
09:42 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, that's the way of the world is one of their, maybe their most famous album, but it's, this is that's the weight of the world, versus to be celestial.
09:52 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_04]: In hindsight, after watching The Dog, it's really for me.
09:57 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_04]: about Maurice and how he viewed what they were doing, how he viewed what he was doing and what he wanted to bring out in the music.
10:08 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's the title is a is a not to Maurice why and his views on how to connect with people via the music.
10:18 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the celestial.
10:19 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we'll come back to kind of like the hippie sort of metaphysical aspects, but, but yeah, I think you're right.
10:26 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_05]: And Maurice White, obviously, for those that don't know or folks that haven't seen it yet, first of all, go watch it.
10:31 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_05]: And then you'll know.
10:31 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_05]: But band leader, one of the lead vocalists of the band, also percussionist.
10:36 --> 10:39 [SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, it's that that's the weight of the world.
10:39 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't even.
10:40 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't until after I saw it when I was preparing notes for this that I caught my brain process the title as to be celestial versus that's the way of the world, which is their record.
10:50 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_05]: But the weight of the world.
10:52 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_05]: And I found it kind of, I don't know about you, but it's about two hours, so I watched it in two chunks.
10:57 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_05]: The first half, I was had a sense, wow, this is really elevating Maurice, making him just seem like this luminary.
11:05 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_05]: And then the second half, you're kind of like, there's a dark side to this, there's a dark side to this man, there's a dark side to his family.
11:12 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_05]: there's like what it did do his family into his bandmates and that that's the weight of the world almost shows that did this sort of celestial rising almost like offer also an opportunity to pull him down or pull other people down for this music.
11:28 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're absolutely right.
11:29 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that second half of the dot when talking about more
11:38 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, I really didn't have any clue as to the type of personality in person that he really was, aside from the music, like his personal life, the way he treated it, not only his bandmates, but his family.
11:54 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_04]: these were things that I didn't know, so it was really illuminating to watch and to hear them speak about how his relationship with each member of the band with his loved ones, really traumatized them.
12:13 --> 12:25 [SPEAKER_05]: I had a really dark sort of sarcastic thought that I should probably shouldn't share publicly, but because it's like, oh, it's like, it's too soon, too soon.
12:25 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_05]: So his kids are in the dock, right, and I taught an LA before I moved to Boston to teach, and I taught at a high school, and a lot of musicians' kids went to this high school.
12:38 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_05]: and one of Maurice White's songs was in my class for one week and so I did not know this guy he does not probably remember me because he rightfully dropped the class because this was Mark teaching music theory in like 2010 or whatever which means I didn't know what I was doing yet right so he was in there and I somehow came to understand who he was and the thought in my head
13:07 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Never had said that loud.
13:08 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_05]: It was like, oh my god, can I meet your dad?
13:11 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_05]: But the door thought that I had watching this was if I had said that, that kid he was like 15 would probably be say, I'd love to also, you know, could I meet my, because like I had no idea like I'm thinking, oh yes, this famous dad, but the truth is his famous dad was completely off the
13:30 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe until that, I mean, okay, maybe by that era, that was 2000s.
13:33 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I think he'd re-enter his life at that point.
13:35 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, he kind of was one of those rock stars.
13:39 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_05]: So he steams.
13:40 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's right.
13:41 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_05]: And there's some music that's just sensational that came out of it.
13:44 --> 13:45 [SPEAKER_05]: But I'm glad I never.
13:46 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad I never said anything like that because that kid was going through stuff with a complicated relationship with his dad.
13:53 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_05]: But so folks, please go check out where we're going to talk more.
13:57 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_05]: But I would say it's not quite as stylized as some of the other docks.
14:01 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_05]: It's a little more straightforward.
14:02 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_05]: There's some cool visuals about especially about this sort of transcendental aspects of the philosophy of Maurice and some of the other bandmates.
14:11 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_05]: The first talking heads are the Obama's, just to set your calibrate, everybody, but there's some cool people talking.
14:18 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Some of his bandmates seem like, like I wanna hang out with some of his bandmates and his, his little brother.
14:23 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, oh yeah, Philip Bailey, so cool, Verdeen has his little brother and his little brother.
14:28 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, those guys, oh, they're the best.
14:50 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_05]: On the idea of this band's vibe, and we've talked about, you know, celestial things and transcendental, I sort of associated this band almost with, in the same way that P-Funk has the the aliens, the mothership stuff, almost sort of as a futurist aspect, with some of the styling of maybe some of the 80s, earth wind and fire, but it seems from this doc that that almost came later that
15:19 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_04]: the hippies subculture in some ways, you know they're they're talking about this one scene where they in early show where they meditated on stage on stage yeah that was so cool they like first in front of an audience that never seen anything like this before the way they would dress number one because at that time
15:39 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_04]: you know, bands and groups were sharp and really coming down with suits and, you know, bell bottles and all sorts of like no town or direction.
15:48 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
15:49 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
15:49 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
15:49 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
15:50 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Everyone is coordinated, you know, color matching and all of that kind of stuff.
15:55 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_04]: And here, they come out some guys with some of them, they may even have shirts on it.
16:00 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_04]: And they get on the
16:06 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_05]: Meditate for five minutes before starting a set like who does that?
16:11 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_05]: I wasn't even sure that the band knew they were going to do that until it.
16:16 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_05]: Like it seemed like a audible call by Maurice because they were kind of freaking out because I don't remember where it was but it seems like it was like Philly's equivalent of the Apollo where they were going to sue you out if they didn't like you.
16:29 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think it was one of their first major gigs as a band together.
16:34 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
16:34 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_04]: If I can recall from from what the doc said,
16:40 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Who does that?
16:42 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Who does that?
16:42 --> 16:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And like you said, it was a audible from Maurice to just get everybody together, calm down, breathe it out, and then let's see what we can do here.
16:53 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_04]: So amazing, just amazing.
16:56 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_05]: And it seems like a lot of that stuff came almost to him.
16:59 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Obviously, it was in the air, maybe in the late 60s, early 70s.
17:02 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_05]: But the meditation, it feels like it almost grew out of, I mean, add to the list of things I had no idea about like coping with.
17:11 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if you could say abandonment issues or whatever, like his father passed when he was early, his mother.
17:16 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's not fair to say that she left them, but kind of like he had to live with another woman in Memphis or whatever while his mom got situated for several years in Chicago and all that.
17:26 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_05]: And maybe it was like that was his happy place on some level in a stressful situation.
17:31 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_05]: And so here you are on stage like your big break or whatever.
17:35 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_05]: What do you do?
17:35 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_05]: You go to the rules that you follow.
17:38 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_05]: The methods you have.
17:39 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like there's there's a lot to admire there, you know, like use what you have as your tools to get through a tough moment.
17:46 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I think your point of the abandonment, I think he felt abandoned, whether, you know, his mom in the rest of the time because he was the only one his siblings were not their either.
18:00 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_04]: until he didn't reconnect with them until later.
18:03 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think he definitely felt an abandonment by his family when he was deaf-behind.
18:09 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's something that's familiar to a lot of immigrant children.
18:13 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we don't think of these things in our American culture, but coming to being Haitian American, I know very well that a lot of times, folks,
18:24 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_04]: move here to try to set up.
18:27 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And it may be years before they're able to bring their children up here with them.
18:33 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_04]: So those kids and I have had friends who've had really hard times reconciling the fact that, yes, my mom and my dad left to make a better way for us, but they really left me for like five
18:49 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, and that's rough.
18:52 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_04]: No matter what the positive benefit is, you know, right exactly exactly.
18:56 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_04]: So I definitely think he was feeling that that stressed that pressure from a very early age of being alone and that kind of made him into this really, and they touch on that in the dark as someone who wanted to keep people away.
19:14 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I think he acted, we wanted to keep people away.
19:17 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't just like being a loof, I just think he was really not, don't get to close.
19:23 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want people to close to me.
19:24 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I have to protect this myself and play out in pretty terrible ways for at some points.
19:31 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_05]: It's like you get this sense of camaraderie and everything is working so well together with everybody contributing to the musical product and then there would be an about face where it's like, and then everybody got fired or things like that.
19:45 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_05]: And I mean, on that note, not to jump too deep into musical stuff, but I thought the doctor did an awesome job with really getting detailed about what people were bringing to the table.
19:56 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_05]: That's, it's not just, oh,
20:00 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like biopics do this really bad, but but even docs like there's sort of a handway and then the music was amazing and it's like no like this person was jazz trained was a studio like Maurice White was a studio and a professional jazz drummer before he became.
20:17 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_05]: And there's like a direct line you could point between professional drummer to funk band leader, right?
20:23 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_05]: And if you think of this band, there's all the percussion they have.
20:27 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
20:28 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_05]: The lead, both of the lead vocalists are percussionists.
20:30 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_05]: Like he was a jazz drummer, Philip Bailey.
20:32 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Like when he's not singing, he's rock in the contas.
20:35 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_05]: They have literal two drummers like the grateful dead or almond brothers or something.
20:39 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_05]: Freddie White and then what Ralph Johnson.
20:42 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_05]: And then other people are playing like their drums, like Elmicae, the rhythm guitar, they talk, they very much call out like he was, he's one of these guys like Nile Rogers were like if you think funk groove, you have to think it's not the lead guitar player.
20:57 --> 21:01 [SPEAKER_05]: It's the guy going ding, ding, ding, playing the guitar like a drum.
21:01 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_05]: Verdeen White is playing percussive bass.
21:04 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_05]: The horn players aren't playing melodies.
21:05 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_05]: They're going like that, like these little stabs.
21:28 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_05]: And like, this doctor did a really good job of kind of calling that stuff out that even me as someone who listens pretty deeply to this kind of music and this band in particular like, oh, yeah, I never really thought about that.
21:46 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_04]: As the lead, like this is the person that puts everything together and without this person, no one else can do anything.
21:54 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_04]: When that's very much not the case most of the time.
21:57 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_04]: So it was great that they were able to highlight what each member was actually doing to make the whole, right?
22:06 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Each part to make the whole, whether it was songwriting, singing and like you said,
22:15 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_04]: he got a lot of the credit.
22:16 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, and again, you got a lot of the credit, but this doc was able to show really that it wasn't him on his own that did the incredible job of bringing this band to life.
22:30 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it was amazing to see them in the studio sitting in the chair and you have him and Philip you know just talking and I forgot I'm trying to remember his name who they later brought in to do some production work and writing in the studio together with someone brand new trying to bring something out of an already awesome ensemble and it was just it's wonderful to watch
22:59 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_05]: the scene where they talk about the mix of shining star in particular because like there's something about funk bands in particular like if you're watching a video of like parliament or even James Brown there's like 30 people on stage but only like six people playing.
23:17 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_05]: And everybody else is waiting.
23:19 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_05]: And then James Brandt will shout something and the alarm player will go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
23:23 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_05]: And then they wait for three more minutes before they play again.
23:25 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_05]: And there's something about when they're talking about that process where they'd recorded all these tracks.
23:31 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_05]: And the mixing engineer just started like muting stuff.
23:34 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_05]: And then everybody's like, oh, this is going to be a hit.
23:37 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_05]: And it's just like addition from subtraction, like, right.
23:41 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_05]: We need to just have the beat with the lead vocal and these little things will come in and out.
24:05 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_05]: You know, Earth wouldn't fire as a big band and not everybody's always playing every little moment.
24:10 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_05]: And I feel like that's a lesson.
24:12 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm kind of maximalist as a arranger and as a producer and stuff where I kind of, well, like my band has horn players, y'all better play, play, do something, they'll send around.
24:22 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_05]: You're getting the same cut as me at this gig.
24:24 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_05]: But then some of our favorite songs, some of my bands are the ones where I, like, they're laying out for a minute
24:32 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's it's good to get those reminders that sometimes I mean shining stars the reason I I fell in love with that band and probably not the only one and it's something about the simplicity and the stripped down nature and then capture that moment so so well I thought the other thing about everybody having a role is it feels like that also connected to some of the dysfunction.
24:55 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_05]: when they just when the priorities shift it like I don't know I'm not really I don't know if you're much of a visual guy or like if you know much about choreography or whatever but when they decided that this needed to be theatrical everything changed and everybody's role changed so like was it the drummer yeah Ralph they're like no you're not the drummer anymore you're now singing back up vocals so we have Philip Maurice and Ralph in front because there's symmetry and this guy's been behind a
25:24 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_05]: sure he's basically a still a drummer, but I don't know.
25:28 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_05]: He seems like he was down, but that's got to lead to weird things.
25:31 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it has to.
25:33 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It has to.
25:34 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_04]: But I think that was more Reese doing things in an unconventional way to try to push this the band into whatever he was trying to get them into.
25:48 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_04]: It almost seemed as if watching it, he didn't want people to be comfortable.
25:52 --> 26:00 [SPEAKER_04]: He was like the type of person, at least to me, that was most comfortable in the uncomfortable.
26:01 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_04]: That made sense.
26:02 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And he was trying to, he would push folks, not just literally push them away, but also push them away from what they felt was their niche.
26:15 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_04]: right get them out of that zone and into something else.
26:19 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I want to change them just from the point where we started when they sit on the ground to meditate.
26:29 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_04]: that was not that that couldn't have been easy for any of them except for him.
26:36 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
26:36 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't even place only.
26:38 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
26:39 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't imagine that was the easy thing for anyone else in the group besides Maurice to do.
26:45 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
26:45 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And yet they did it because they trusted in him.
26:49 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe they were a little fearful as well.
26:51 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_04]: But they ultimately trusted in his vision.
26:59 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And that was the huge lesson I taken away from this.
27:02 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_05]: There's something kind of Brian Wilson about that.
27:05 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, because Brian Wilson, he wasn't really dictator.
27:09 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_05]: He was a little more magician behind the scenes, kind of maybe with the beach boys, but but you hear of him in the studio with all these really advanced session musicians and he's telling them to do the thing and they're kind of like, that's not how those instrument works.
27:22 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't work and he's kind of like do it anyways.
27:27 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_05]: super well-trained in certain ways about music, but super not well-trained in like no music notation and stuff.
27:34 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_05]: But he got like weird stuff, weird inverted chords, weird lines because he was pushing these really like capable musicians just to try thinking of things in a different way.
27:46 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_05]: And he wasn't an outsider, like he wasn't completely coming from outside the box, but he was just
27:51 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_05]: Kind of like Maurice, maybe this guy that would kind of push people's limits, hopefully in a productive way, hopefully not as not very often in an abusive way.
28:02 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_05]: I don't really think ever with Brian, but possibly maybe a little bit with Maurice.
28:06 --> 28:08 [SPEAKER_05]: It's sort of a trip just to imagine.
28:09 --> 28:11 [SPEAKER_05]: how this band would be with different personalities.
28:11 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Like if there was another alpha in the room, you know?
28:14 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh wow.
28:15 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_05]: And maybe that's part of it like early on.
28:17 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_05]: What after like the first album or something, they fired the manager.
28:21 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_05]: And that's cold when you send the manager to fire the whole band.
28:23 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Fire everybody, but his little brother.
28:26 --> 28:31 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe they honestly recruited people that weren't because there were these jazz musicians they were playing with.
28:31 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_05]: That might have been a bunch of people that had really shown ideas.
28:34 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_05]: As jazz musicians tend to do as jazz musicians and these the new guys were all jazz trained or like they were trained but they were all like 10 years younger than him.
28:44 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe it was kind of part of the deal.
28:46 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_05]: And one of them or two of them were his little brothers, might be part of the deal that like, you're gonna do this technically complicated and exacting musical standards kind of performance, but you're not gonna necessarily, not that you won't bring your own ideas, but you're not gonna try to take control.
29:03 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe that was kind of part of the plan.
29:06 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think the age difference between him and the members play the huge role.
29:12 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_04]: and how the band came to be, what they came to be.
29:17 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, having, I do really believe it was deliberate to have that sort of dynamic where he would be able to shape and mold without too much pushback.
29:31 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_04]: To kind of like listen to what Maurice wanted to do
29:41 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_04]: who probably did have different views on how things were done both in the studio and on stage.
29:49 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I don't think anything was not deliberate in the makeup of the band.
30:13 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, super fascinating.
30:14 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_05]: When we started talking about meditation, I mentioned Afro-futurism and sort of, there was a kind of, I don't know if Afro-centricism is the term, but the sort of that movement, and the doc never used the term black power, but it coincides with that movement, right?
30:30 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_05]: And sort of black love and all those things in the 60s and 70s.
30:34 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_05]: And so your family came from Haiti, which when you think of like Afro-Caribbean music,
30:40 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_05]: It is easier maybe to see the direct line from West Africa than the blues.
30:45 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_05]: Now that's there in the blues, but it's the sort of southern United States expression of that is a bit different, right?
30:53 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_05]: And so I was wondering, do you have a take on like,
30:57 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_05]: the move that they make and maybe that Maurice makes towards this sort of Afro-centricism and interest in that, and kind of like without getting into the musical details or whatever, there's obviously a lot of Afro-Latino or just West African influence sort of percussion, and he gets really invested in playing the Kalimba, like there's all these things and the cloning changes, and in this era where in the 70s and 80s you've got like sting,
31:23 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_05]: bringing in instruments from Ireland and like the talking heads with South American and African influences and a lot of that's really beautiful music but there's something very real and very palpable about what earth wind and fire was doing with bringing this in not just not just musically not just costuming but the album covers have the pyramids in there and and I don't know if you've just even from the perspective of someone with Haitian roots if you can kind of speak to
31:51 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_05]: any of what was going on, especially even New York, which obviously there's Chicago, not New York, but that was all going on in New York in the 70s, too.
31:58 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I think drums is the drums.
32:02 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's just be really clear, as Afro-Caribbean Afro, Asian-American is the drums.
32:11 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I fell in love with rap music because of the drums, because of the bass, the percussion, the heavy instrument, the boom that that is when the speakers are shaking because of that.
32:28 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that is a huge part of Earth Wind and Fire.
32:34 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_04]: That feeling, it evokes, it's something that you don't get in a lot of rock music.
32:42 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't get in a lot of, you know, Motown music.
32:46 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_04]: But you do get that in the 70s where the artists are heavily heavily heavily.
32:54 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_04]: So people are playing congress on albums, black bands are playing congress on albums.
33:01 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Like they're really investing themselves into the music and the feel of what it meant to be part of the diaspora at that point in time.
33:13 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_04]: And you can hear it and you can feel it in the music.
33:16 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think it's essential.
33:18 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_04]: There is a call back, I think, too in the 70s where folks are making those overtures.
33:26 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_04]: musically to the African roots and that coincides with the clothing that coincides with what you're seeing.
33:36 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Like you mentioned on one of the album covers with the with the pyramids.
33:39 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I forgot what album was.
33:41 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_04]: This idea that you know Afro centricism in the music is just as important as it is in anywhere else.
33:49 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's that plays out in New York City.
33:52 --> 34:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't grow up in the 70s, but in the 80s, 90s, the older heads that I grew up around were very much into that scene.
34:02 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Like knowledge of style, five percenters.
34:05 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_04]: He thinks of that nature that we're looking towards.
34:08 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Africa as their base for their all-antial immorality and everything that had to do with that, that's what we got.
34:20 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_04]: So you got data sold, jungle brothers, all of these groups that were really pro-black, but really in some sense, pan-African, you know, in rap music.
34:32 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_04]: And there's a direct line
34:37 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_04]: because they got the music from those 1970s albums.
34:42 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_04]: They got the music from Isaac Ayes.
34:45 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_04]: If you look at Isaac Ayes and what he embodyed this beautiful black man on stage, this is what a lot of folks were channeling at that time and earthwomen and fires of major part of that.
35:01 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_05]: It goes both ways, too, right, in a sense that like one affects the other, and then the second thing affects the first, because Earth wouldn't fire probably would have struggled to be relevant by the time hip hop.
35:14 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_05]: It really, you know, by the way, have you, I think I mentioned something.
35:17 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, have you heard?
35:18 --> 35:21 [SPEAKER_05]: They actually have like, there's a record with that big boys on.
35:22 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_05]: They have a record with a cover of the way you move.
35:25 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Featuring Kenny G. Like it's wild.
35:27 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Like they do the chorus.
35:29 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_05]: They do the hook.
35:30 --> 35:31 [SPEAKER_05]: They do all the sleepy brown parts.
35:49 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_05]: And then Big Boy's rap is like a Kenny G saxolum like well, but then another track on that record has Big Boy rapping for the intro.
36:19 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_05]: They are trying to find a way to fit in, but ultimately things changed a lot under the feet while they were at their peak.
36:29 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_04]: At their peak, and that's the thing, that's the thing, like you said, while they were at their peak, the entire musical landscape for black music changed.
36:39 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_04]: period.
36:41 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's something that I really never gave a lot of Thor too, more than passing Thor about it.
36:49 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_04]: But watching the dark, it was just like, wow, rap music really caused a seismic shift in the way black music was received and what was expected out of musicians.
37:06 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_04]: you just, they couldn't survive that, they couldn't survive it.
37:10 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_05]: The dog talks about them moving to try to modernize, but they were it seemed much more, let's embrace like synth pop and stuff like that.
37:19 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_05]: Whereas you take, and now I think disco maybe is a bad word that we, well, I want to talk about that whole disco thing later, because there's an angle in that.
37:27 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_05]: I like disco.
37:28 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_05]: The dog.
37:28 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I like this go.
37:30 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I like this go.
37:30 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_05]: No, I want to come back to it because the dog almost treats it like it's a bad word.
37:34 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_05]: I want to come back to that, but But another band that I think kind of straddles that era would be like cool in the game where they're like full on disco
37:57 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_05]: But then when you hear, like, get down on it, that's got like a hip hop flavor, like,
38:20 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like Nate dog sings like they do in that song, you know, like there's something about that that felt more, it's not necessarily forward looking, it's just that they chose a different lane, whereas system of survival, you know, is what late 80s earth went in fire and that's like 88, I think.
38:36 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_05]: something like that and that's like vocoder robot voice like kind of like a different they weren't going to hip-hop they were going more towards synth pop right right which I don't know which obviously that's was more what Maurice was interested in and that also seems to have coincided with the rest of the guys in the band being asked to sort of be even less involved which and then eventually leave which sucks but so yeah the disco thing I feel like like they talk
39:06 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_05]: was a boogie wonderland.
39:07 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_05]: And one of the guys is like, and that's the only disco record we ever cut.
39:10 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like, excuse me, at this point in the documentary, you have not even mentioned the bravery to not mention September until the very end when that's probably the most famous song.
39:20 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_05]: And like, how is that not disco?
39:23 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_05]: How is seeing a song not disco?
40:01 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for watching!
40:11 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_05]: Is it not disco in the same way that like in my podcast, sometimes I will say something can't be new metal and the reason is because I like it then can't be new metal and I'm like it feels like when people say disco sucks the thing that I say is but what about this this and this and this earth when in fire song that's my proof of how awesome disco can be and so it's funny like one of the band members is just like and we made a disco song and I'm like what I feel like you've got a lot of good disco songs.
40:38 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm a fan of disco music, so there's something to split that out there right now.
40:43 --> 41:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't remember, you know, house parties where I would sneak a peek in my parents' home as my sister's through parties and which I wasn't allowed to, I was supposed to be asleep but who can sleep with the music banging out and just seeing people doing all sorts of,
41:06 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I took a fence to that disco line.
41:08 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I'm gonna take a fence to it.
41:11 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like this goes one of those things where what is it?
41:13 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_05]: Is it Sturgeon's Law?
41:15 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_05]: 90% of everything is crap.
41:16 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_05]: 90% yes.
41:17 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
41:18 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_05]: Like people talk, you know, people in my field will be like, like, music professors will be, you know, will be in a faculty meeting and someone will make some comment about how awesome like classical music is.
41:29 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_05]: And like, yeah, there's a lot of great classical music.
41:31 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_05]: But the fact is, all the crap,
41:33 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_05]: is gone and you can't hear it because not only was it never recorded but the sheet music got got lost in a fire one day in 1820 right and so all that's left are these massive master works these amazing pieces of perfection and I feel like in the early 90s or whatever late 80s everybody was talking smack about disco but the fact is all that crap that made a lot of people really hate disco because there was maybe too much excess too much it's all gone and
42:04 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to hear BG, you're going to hear Earth Wind and Fire, you can hear Donna Summer, like Donna Summer.
42:09 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_05]: I feel like all the reasons that disco was not palatable to people, have gone the way of all the other people that weren't Mozart.
42:18 --> 42:19 [SPEAKER_05]: You know what I mean?
42:19 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_05]: All the other, or the people remember the best jazz musicians or whatever.
42:23 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_05]: And Earth Wind and Fire are a part of that.
42:26 --> 42:29 [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, I really, really believe that.
42:30 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_04]: If you existed in the 70s, then counter-cultures counter-culture, right?
42:37 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Whether it's punk, whether you were at Studio 54, getting high on coke, and dancing to Donna Summer, you know, there was something about the 70s that people who lived it will tell you, it can't be captured, ever again.
42:54 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know if it's because of the what this country went through in the 60s, Vietnam, civil rights that led to this sort of movement of people just wanting to just forget about
43:15 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_04]: most of the shit that they have to go through, but it got captured in those years from, I don't know, 76, 77, so 80, those years were people saying, I want to forget about the shit that I got to go through.
43:32 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't care what anybody says about how I forget.
43:37 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And they put out music to make you forget.
43:41 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_04]: And it wasn't just disco.
43:43 --> 43:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I had one of my sisters, I showed, it's what she listens to, and you're like, why did you say that?
43:49 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_04]: But one of my sisters was definitely punk.
43:52 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Mohan, leather, and a Haitian American household, like, what are you doing?
44:01 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_04]: What is this?
44:03 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Being exposed to that sort of, you know, that sort of thinking that people just want to find their people, right?
44:13 --> 44:17 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think Earth's wind and fire for me watching the dark,
44:18 --> 44:23 [SPEAKER_04]: more Reese wanted to find his people to bring it back to that.
44:23 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_04]: More Reese wanted to find his people and the way that he tried to find his people was through this music that he also tried to control the people that he was surrounded by.
44:34 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And ultimately it led to some really, really hard and bitter times for everyone involved.
44:43 --> 45:08 [SPEAKER_05]: Why is it like so hard to have also like a super successful genius type person and also just like wholesome like there's no biopic right there's no doc there I guess right but it seems like It's kind of a tale as old as time is there's always got to be some kind of pathos that's got a dark side to it, but yeah I think it is interesting how they talked so much about like how he just wanted to reach people he wanted his people
45:09 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_05]: But those people, he wanted his audiences to be black folks, white folks like everybody to like them.
45:20 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_05]: But they didn't do it.
45:22 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't mean to dismiss some of this stuff.
45:24 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Like Motown has a great music.
45:25 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_05]: But they also work kind of pointed towards the middle.
45:29 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_05]: in a way in it, like if you think of 60's soul, like stacks record wasn't really trying to do that.
45:34 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_05]: They were trying to like, like a refus stuff on Atlantic or whatever.
45:37 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_05]: They were going for a theme.
45:40 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_05]: Whereas Motown was like, we're going to get the maximum audience by kind of targeting this great middle of American culture.
45:46 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_05]: America.
45:46 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_05]: And Maurice had Earthwin and fire kind of almost more in the 60's soul, like stacks method.
45:52 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_05]: No, we're just going to kind of uncompromise
45:56 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_05]: what we want but we're going to do it in a way that's just so compelling where you have the base player levitating on stage and you've got uh... elephant out of the way where their elephants didn't miss the other they were gone there with there with the elephant oh my god the stadium shows no wonder they were like the show called the time elephant oh my god
46:17 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_05]: but like found a way to own it so and this maybe goes to this notion of the 70s you were talking about about everybody trying to kind of like find a way to get through what was going on and find your people it's just like be so authentically you which in his case with some combination of 60s hippie with
46:36 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_05]: sort of modern back to Africa, sort of sentiment plus embrace of technology and dance and and pop melodies and this weird thing that only that group of people could create that somehow worked really well at least for a while.
46:50 --> 46:52 [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, had this dark side, unfortunately.
46:53 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_04]: The band was very clear on the music they wanted to make, right?
46:57 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_04]: They wanted to make this type of music.
47:00 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_04]: They weren't trying to appeal until much later, right?
47:06 --> 47:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
47:06 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_04]: I think the appealing part where I have to make this type of music in order to generate this type of response.
47:13 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think initially that's what that's what they were doing.
47:17 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_04]: My people are making this music?
47:18 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we're going to make this music, and because the music is fucking dope, excuse me, because it's so good, I know people are going to gravitate towards it.
47:29 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_04]: I know we're going to get people to listen and to get together and just feel in these moments.
47:37 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think what they said is that we're going to make this music not to appeal, but because we know it's really fucking good.
47:45 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
47:48 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_04]: people are going to find it and they're going to want it and they're going to be able to just like commune with us in this music.
47:56 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I want out of my music.
48:01 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want people to make music because they think I'm going to like it.
48:05 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I want you to make music that you really want to share with me.
48:11 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And if I like it, I like it.
48:13 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_04]: But don't try to give me something that you think that I want.
48:17 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Because a lot of times, I don't know what I want when I put on a record.
48:22 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I might think I might have an idea, like, oh, I want to hear this.
48:25 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_04]: But if the record goes somewhere else,
48:28 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_04]: and it's dope.
48:30 --> 48:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm coming to like, wow, you know, this is something like right now in rap music, you know, 10, 15 years ago, started listening to stuff that didn't have a lot of drums.
48:43 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Totally like no drums.
48:45 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
48:47 --> 48:49 [SPEAKER_04]: We called it drum this, drum this rap.
48:50 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, 20 years ago, I wouldn't have never expected to say to anyone, I listen to rap music that has no drums on it, no bass, no boombat, nothing.
49:01 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_05]: You want to shout out something?
49:02 --> 49:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Rock, Marseignano, Westside Dunn, Griselda, LaRugino, the Garfahin, my homie, there's so many, there's so many, action, bronzing.
49:15 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't leave, we buy the whole thing I sell another thing but the whole thing The whole night Get your light Get your light I, you ever had to watch the work disappear What a turn from foggy to clear, just in and stand
49:34 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_04]: But there, you know, this is stuff that I didn't know that I really, that I could feel.
49:41 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_04]: And this is music that is evoking and making me feel where I thought the only way I could actually feel was to have those drums.
49:50 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_04]: because that's what I was, you know, that's my first love.
49:55 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_04]: But no, don't make music that you think that I want.
49:59 --> 50:03 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's the biggest thing that I can say about earthwomen fire.
50:03 --> 50:08 [SPEAKER_04]: They didn't make music in those seven, those 70s albums to me.
50:08 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't music that they thought that people wanted.
50:11 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_04]: It was the music that they wanted to make.
50:14 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_04]: And the people found it and loved it.
50:15 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, when you think of like the best, like the most influential people, it's like they're never chasing the trend, right?
50:22 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_05]: Whether it's the Beatles or when in fire, Stevie Wonder, although Stevie Wonder, like ripping off a Chinese star, but whatever, like, but I wish I love that kind of superstition, the like heavy, you haven't done nothing, that heavy funk Stevie Wonder, he's a part of that, too, and it's so great.
50:36 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_05]: But like part of it, whether it's, you know, Nirvana or
50:42 --> 50:55 [SPEAKER_05]: Day last soul or a tribe called Quest with these other groups that are just like doing their thing and waiting for the rest of us to catch up, hopefully while there's still alive in some of those cases, we talked almost half as long as this whole dock, but I guess that's a more out thing, right?
50:55 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_05]: We should take a second of the house and a one hour deconstruction of the pre-minute trailer of this dock.
51:03 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I think folks should watch it if you enjoy the process of seeing musicians get together and make great things just watch the doc because it's so
51:22 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, and I don't want to say it's behind the scenes, but it's just like there's an honesty to it that I think people will enjoy about the process of making a band, of making music.
51:35 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_04]: So I couldn't give it any more thumbs up.
51:39 --> 51:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Then I have the tool that I have.
51:41 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_04]: So there's nothing to check out the doc.
51:44 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_05]: It does a good job of capturing what is good about them.
51:49 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_05]: Like you feel the good points.
51:52 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_05]: You realize things maybe you didn't know about what was so cool.
51:55 --> 52:00 [SPEAKER_05]: And about maybe sounds like some of the stuff we've talked about applies to just music you like in general, right?
52:00 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_05]: Like you learn about kind of what it means to define an era, to define a style and bring people along.
52:07 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_05]: Awesome, John, thanks so much for talking about this.
52:09 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, not pre-shaped.
52:10 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_05]: For planet season three, maybe we can get you on the pod for another topic.
52:13 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, please, please, that's all.
52:16 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me know what you guys are talking about.
52:18 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_04]: And if I love it, I love it.
52:20 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll get on.
52:21 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Also, Nicole, watch this doc.
52:24 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_05]: But, but, John, what's going on?
52:26 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_05]: So you're right now.
52:28 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_05]: House of the drag and we're a couple episodes deep.
52:31 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_04]: What else do you recorded season three episode two?
52:35 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_04]: That should be out shortly, Malisha and I.
52:38 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_04]: So you'll find those season three episodes starting next week with me and David, they'll be dropping.
52:45 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, we're going to do Supergirl, um, Alicia and I, um, the Supergirl movie that just came out, which, again, I loved, yes, Spider-Man, uh, so many things coming out.
52:56 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_04]: We're probably going to do a one shot on X-Men 97, Alicia and I, so keep, yeah, a lot, a lot.
53:05 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Do me lanterns and August, it's going to be a very busy summer.
53:08 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'll be on the mic for a lot of it.
53:11 --> 53:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Looking forward to it.
53:16 --> 53:19 [SPEAKER_05]: Nevermind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and me, Mark Poppinny.
53:20 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_05]: I also produce.
53:22 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_05]: Please leave us a rating and a review and don't forget to follow.
53:26 --> 53:32 [SPEAKER_05]: We're never music pot on social media, and you can also send us an email at nevermusicpot at gmail.com.
53:33 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Nevermind the music is part of the lorehounds network.
53:36 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_05]: Join the conversation by going to the lorehounds.com and hop on our Discord server.
53:42 --> 53:42 [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening.