What’s a good way to get through a breakup? Record a hit single! In this episode, we are entranced by Fleetwood Mac’s 1977 masterpiece “Dreams.” Nichole talks through the grief that accompanies the end of a relationship, which somehow with this band led to some terrific songs. Mark then dreams about the structure of the melody, and how it is built in a way that adds to the song’s quiet tension.
Other music heard in this episode: Fleetwood Mac - “Rhiannon”, Fleetwood Mac - “Landslide”, Fleetwood Mac - “You Make Loving Fun”, Prince - “When Doves Cry”, R.E.M. - “Orange Crush”, Kate Bush - “Wuthering Heights”, They Might Be Giants - “Birdhouse in Your Soul”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that in the case of the McV song on this album, they have reached that meaning part.
00:07 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_07]: Like don't stop believing this is all for the greater good.
00:10 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't stop believing.
00:11 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Other iconic 70s music different though.
00:14 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
00:14 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, shit.
00:15 --> 00:17 [SPEAKER_06]: What was the name of the song?
00:17 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't stop.
00:18 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Don't stop believing.
00:19 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Think about tomorrow.
00:20 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: What is it?
00:21 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I, what's the words?
00:22 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Verbing about tomorrow.
00:23 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember.
00:35 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, I'm Nicole, and I'm Mark, and this is Nevermind the Music.
00:38 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_07]: What are we going to talk about today, Mark?
00:41 --> 00:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about Fleetwood Mac, Dreams.
01:00 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:00 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_07]: A little known song.
01:01 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Little known song.
01:02 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of this song?
01:03 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of Fleetwood Mac?
01:04 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_07]: Obviously, I love the song and love Fleetwood Mac.
01:06 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_07]: I love Stevie next.
01:07 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_07]: So witchy.
01:08 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_07]: Very into it.
01:10 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And then witchy.
01:11 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Very witchy song.
01:12 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So that should I just play it now.
01:14 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's Reannon.
01:15 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
01:33 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it is about like a Welsh witch or something.
01:36 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_07]: Very intuit-led slide also.
01:38 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh yeah.
01:39 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
01:39 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is playments.
01:40 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got all these cute up already.
01:42 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_04]: This is a play.
01:54 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_04]: But I may see both of you You can get older now Get older too
02:05 --> 02:16 [SPEAKER_07]: It's funny with that song every time I hear it like I get this like salty discharge that like comes on my eyes sometimes I don't know like what happens.
02:16 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_07]: It's like yeah, like something happens in my face.
02:20 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you believe that song was just an album track?
02:23 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a single, not actually officially single.
02:25 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And last time crazy, I do not think it's charted but it's one of those like
02:33 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Lanslide.
02:34 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was just one of those songs that is iconic.
02:37 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That's from the same record as Riannen, which is Fleetwood Mac.
02:42 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that band has multiple albums called Fleetwood Mac.
02:44 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like Wezer.
02:45 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_07]: That's confusing.
02:46 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So this one like seal.
02:48 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
02:50 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Go back to that.
02:50 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We get way into it.
02:52 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like seal.
02:53 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like the whole with Rambo is this Rambo 2 or first one too.
02:57 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_07]: Like so much that.
02:58 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:59 --> 02:59 [UNKNOWN]: So
02:59 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: This song, though, just so you're a fan, I also like.
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course, Mac.
03:03 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, not a monster.
03:05 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_00]: This song comes from rumors, 1977, considered one of the best albums of all time.
03:13 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And I do want to come back to that.
03:14 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
03:15 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: This is their first song, Dreams.
03:17 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_00]: They're first song to hit number one in the U.S. Albatross, which I don't know if you know that song.
03:22 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: No idea.
03:23 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an instrumental from the, I think it's late 60s.
03:29 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That one hit number one in the UK.
03:31 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But in this band had so many singers, right?
03:33 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was the Peter Green era.
03:34 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what Albatross is from.
03:36 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: There was the Bob Welch era.
03:38 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember from our feedback mail bag, the you all, everybody?
03:42 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe original version, right?
03:43 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So you guys got me dreaming that was Bob Welch.
03:45 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's cool.
03:46 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But like solo later.
03:47 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_00]: How funny.
03:48 --> 03:50 [SPEAKER_00]: We're kind of, I guess, for this episode.
03:50 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just consider the next Buckingham era.
03:53 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It sounds good.
03:53 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_07]: It's like, I love how we just threw in that last reference.
03:56 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_07]: It's like no context at all.
03:58 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_07]: But you all, everybody.
03:59 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's now a part of the human music history.
04:03 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
04:03 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
04:05 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, if you think of how big some of these songs were, rean in, which was 1975, from the previous record, only hit 11.
04:13 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And same as say that you love me from that record.
04:15 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_07]: That's a great song.
04:16 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And this one, don't stop.
04:18 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Number three.
04:20 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Go your own way, number 10.
04:22 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So some of these songs, and for me, my sleeper hit on this record.
04:27 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I mean, some of these, the chain, like some of the songs on rumors are so good.
04:31 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But, and I will, again, we'll come back to the record a little later.
04:33 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But for me, my favorite probably, for some reason, at least right now as you make love and fun, which hit number nine, there's something about this Christine McVee hit.
04:44 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just so cool.
05:02 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_03]: But I've a feeling it's time to try.
05:09 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_07]: Christine McVee, it's, she's great.
05:12 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: She came up with me talking about time too.
05:14 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_07]: Great.
05:15 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_07]: But she gets overshadowed by CV next, I think.
05:18 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_07]: She's not witchy enough.
05:19 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_00]: She's probably not witchy enough.
05:21 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
05:21 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, she's English.
05:23 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So does that give her more?
05:24 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, she's British.
05:25 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, maybe.
05:26 --> 05:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she will.
05:27 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_07]: I think she would be more.
05:29 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, she's British.
05:31 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But she stayed around to right after Nick's bucking him left and rest in peace, Christine McVee.
05:37 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
05:37 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_00]: This episode will talk mostly more about Stephen Nick's because this is her song.
05:42 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
05:43 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But even after that, never had another number one hit.
05:46 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Told me and little lies hit four big love hit number five.
05:51 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_07]: That's a great song.
05:52 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, this so this record rumors killer deep cuts.
05:55 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Once we've already talked about gold dust, one man's great.
06:00 --> 06:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so good.
06:00 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_07]: This is like their tapestry.
06:04 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_00]: So you, you mentioned tapestry from tapestry for me though.
06:09 --> 06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I'm not policing your use of the reference, but the thing that's crazy about tapestry, so tapestry, Carol King, right?
06:15 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:16 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Carol King caught her teeth starting as literally a teenager.
06:19 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
06:20 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Writing for the Braille Building.
06:22 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: So she was writing like, or one of those publishing companies, just writing pop songs for her group, and other stuff like that.
06:29 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And so tapestry was like, hey, why don't I do soulful piano renditions of all these songs?
06:34 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's almost like a greatest hits cover album
06:38 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_00]: hers her song is that she wrote that she then did her own version of so this is their tapestry in the sense that this is like an iconic.
06:45 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_07]: It's an iconic album that it takes you to gave it to a newly minted human that understood a little bit of music and said like check out this album they'd be like isn't this a greatest hit album.
06:57 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay in that way.
06:58 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and that way.
06:59 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
07:00 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_07]: Right when you're like oh no this is just all the album they're all awesome songs.
07:05 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And relating to our familial conversation, we had, this is very much divorce record.
07:12 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_00]: This divorce is in breakups all over the place on this.
07:16 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So this song in particular was written by Stevie Nix and it's about her, at that point, imminent breakup with Lindsey Buckingham.
07:23 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, she was like singing with.
07:24 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
07:25 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Christine McVee and John McVee were recently divorced, which is also all over this album.
07:31 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, don't stop.
07:33 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's about that.
07:35 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: This song is kind of like, mixes perspective of the breakup, whereas go your own ways, Lindsay Buckingham's perspective of the breakup.
07:41 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And there was lots of cocaine involved, making this album too.
07:45 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And a ton of money.
07:47 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, pounds or dollars what it was, but it was expensive.
07:51 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to get to like why we're talking about this song in particular, but they were recording and, you know, Steven next doesn't really play instruments on this record.
07:59 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_00]: She might play like percussion a little bit but basically there's yeah live.
08:03 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_00]: She's got that tambourine and she locks it down, but she's mostly there is a vocalist in the song right there, right?
08:07 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And
08:08 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, she wandered off while they were doing one of the other tracks and set down it Slice Stone's piano, you know, from Sly in the family stone.
08:15 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
08:16 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And wrote this tune, and then came back and recorded a demo playing a Rhodes piano, electric piano, and singing, and this is one of those scenarios where they used that vocal take as the final.
08:28 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I talked about this actually on the one-hit Thunder podcast when I guessed it on there is talking about
08:36 --> 08:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was one of those.
08:38 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: They recorded the vocal in one take.
08:40 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_00]: The like myth is, and they just left it.
08:42 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't that.
08:43 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_00]: This is, they're being honest.
08:44 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, oh, no, we tried to record her vocal.
08:47 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The finished perfect version.
08:49 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
08:49 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And we just never got it better.
08:50 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So we used the demo.
08:51 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't like a magic.
08:53 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And we knew it was perfect.
08:54 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_00]: No, the recording engineer's like, OK, now let's do it for real.
08:57 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_00]: and it just was never as emotional and kind of perfect as just what's called a scratch track or a guide vocal with her also playing the keyboard.
09:08 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not what I really want to talk about, but will you indulge me please to at least just like nerd out on the sound world of this song and again we're going to come back to this later.
09:17 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a sidetracked plan and you don't know what it's about, but it's relating to this album in general.
09:22 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And part of the mastery of this album is not just the songwriting, but it's the arrangement and it's the production of it, just it all just sounds so beautiful.
09:30 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this song from the arrangement perspective and when I say arrangement in music, I mean the way the instruments and the voice is interact with each other.
09:38 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes people will say arrangement and they mean form like verse and then chorus, but generally speaking like an arranger in music is someone who chooses what, what is the keyboard is actually play?
09:49 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_00]: What is the low vocalist actually singing, right?
09:52 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And this song just is so perfect in that we go ahead.
09:56 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to geek out on that before we enter into our actual discussions for today.
10:02 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's listen first just to the intro of this song.
10:22 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So what I want to read first notice is the song never resolves.
10:26 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I may be mentioned the song months ago in a season one or something like that.
10:31 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_00]: That a song that never plays really the key, the key chord.
10:35 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So if this is either in C major or A minor and it's just F and G looping forever.
10:42 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And so like if you hear, we hear that again, you're going to hear just F G F G
10:53 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the entire song.
10:55 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: There's one use of the A minor chord for like two beats once in the song But otherwise it creates this constant state of tension that I think it's worth highlighting a little bit because I think it's gonna relate to what I want to actually talk about Yeah, and maybe thematically relates to the romantic tension and all of it like the music industry tension song
11:15 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_00]: all that stuff and the lyrics to the song like they suggest regret they suggest loneliness like persistent thoughts you know some of them maybe more negative some of them more it maybe more positive and that tense looping fits that and listen then to make Fleetwood drum part.
11:52 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds good, right?
11:52 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, just gonna go on forever.
11:54 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_00]: That's literally a loop.
11:55 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
11:55 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: They recorded that, and they looped that for the whole song.
11:58 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, he adds little dut-o-dum, like tons and symbols, but they actually did a loop.
12:03 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like a dance pop artist would now, where they would just copy and paste it him, which is not really a common recording technique at that point, right?
12:10 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_07]: And you know what I just realized why their calls Fleet would Mac?
12:13 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: really.
12:14 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I just can't tell the people.
12:16 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_07]: No, they already know.
12:17 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:18 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's the rare base player and drummer get the band name.
12:21 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
12:22 --> 12:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Though you could say, you know, Christine McVee took John McVee's name.
12:25 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's sort of named after her too.
12:27 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but they are those two are the constant figures going back from the 6th.
12:31 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
12:32 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_07]: It makes sense.
12:33 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, then you talk about looping and something being hypnotic and endless.
12:39 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_00]: John McVee's baseline is the same for the
12:52 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He does little fills, but he is just...
12:57 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Hold it down those two cords, the whole time.
13:00 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And then if you put Christine McVee in there on the Rhodes piano, she actually complained about this part thought it was really boring at first.
13:06 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is probably close to what Stephen X was playing.
13:09 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Notice there's a tension here because that bass note, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, what it would, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, she holds bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum.
13:21 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Creating the seventh of the chord and it's more
13:29 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You're out hold instead of yeah, it should go and you barely hear it in the mix as just this like some things not right yeah and then of course we have bucking hands fading up volume pedally guitar parts
14:04 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it's beautiful.
14:05 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_07]: It just isolated, huh?
14:07 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
14:07 --> 14:22 [SPEAKER_00]: There's an interview where Christine McVee was talking about how she kind of hated this part and it's really like the song's form and the growth of it came from Lindsey Buckingham adding those guitar parts that gave us like a guy because it's the same thing for three minutes or whatever.
14:22 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_07]: And they probably played this song millions of times live and just like boom boom boom.
14:29 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now she adds other stuff later.
14:31 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That's more her, I think.
14:33 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just so cool.
14:34 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that subtle bit creates this sonic tapestry and then I'm sorry, a little more learning out.
14:43 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_04]: When we get to the pre-chorus, you can see things really opening up and I'm not going to play through every little bit.
14:57 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_00]: God, just listen to the guitar alone.
15:01 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the keyboard, she plays the electric piano and then actually overdubs vibraphone.
15:13 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the mallet instrument, twisting the key, plays it with delay on it, like, um, chef's kiss.
15:26 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there's nothing less witchy than a vibraphone.
15:30 --> 15:30 [UNKNOWN]: What?
15:31 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_00]: What about?
15:32 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_07]: What are you seeing, McVee?
15:33 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, what are you?
15:34 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, Nardi.
15:36 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no, it's fine.
15:37 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_07]: You get a tambourine and a flowy skirt.
15:39 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_07]: Simply can't play the xylophone.
15:41 --> 15:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, the vibraphone.
15:43 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: xylophone vibraphone, the real instrument.
15:45 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't dismerge the vibraphone.
15:47 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_00]: xylophone's a little more goofy.
15:49 --> 15:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But, all right.
15:50 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
15:51 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, of course, the mastery of this chorus, right?
16:15 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: There's the acoustic guitar.
16:17 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_00]: There's the contas that Fleetwood puts in, and then of course, the harmonies.
16:21 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_04]: What do you know?
16:23 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_00]: With the Christine McVee.
16:25 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, well, give it a go.
16:41 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I'll shut up.
16:58 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I have things I want to talk about and it's about the phrase structure of the song, what do you got on this?
17:03 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to talk about grief again, surprise, surprise.
17:06 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:06 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_07]: Like grief was out begging, like grief is a quiet acceptance and I think Fleet would mac and capsulate that idea in this whole album and you mentioned before how it's so nuanced in the interpersonal dynamics of the band, but they still like stuck together and their
17:24 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_07]: and grew.
17:25 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_07]: And they just had to have this quiet resignation about it in this idea that you can grieve independently, but still get your job done.
17:33 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what I want to talk about.
17:35 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's.
17:36 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:36 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:37 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about like, I'm very musicy in this episode.
17:42 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:42 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I.
17:42 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, we're going to sign track and talk about, I can geek out more on the production stuff.
17:46 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about melodic and harmonic phrase structure later.
17:49 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So.
17:49 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
17:49 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: grief, but are you thinking about grief from the relationship loss perspective kind of or more general than that?
17:56 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm thinking about, yeah, grieving relationships, and grieving time, passing, and iterations of relationships, like in the song.
18:06 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_07]: The speaker isn't trying to convince the other person to stay in their relationship.
18:11 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_07]: They're kind of just accepting that it didn't work out.
18:13 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_07]: And we have to, we can be sad, but also be self-contained in that sadness, and keep our sadness inside ourselves and not let it reach out to other aspects of our life, which is the acceptance of grief, right?
18:27 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_07]: And the knowledge bent of it, which is an important aspect.
18:30 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, in the Cooper Ross stages of grief model, acceptance is the final stage.
18:35 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_07]: It's like the final boss to conquer in terms of processing grief.
18:39 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so if we contextualize this, if we think of this song as from Stevie Nick's perspective about her breaking up with Lindsey Buckingham, even in that context, there's a lot of it that's use statements or that seems like it's talking about him specifically, not about her experience, and so if you think,
18:59 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_00]: If I could just read some of the lyrics for a second.
19:02 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Now here we go again, you say you want your freedom.
19:05 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, who am I to keep you down?
19:07 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we're gonna break up.
19:08 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not gonna stop you, right?
19:10 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's only right that you should play the way you feel it, but listen carefully to the sound of your loneliness, like a heartbeat drives you mad, and there's stillness of remembering what you had, what you lost.
19:23 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And so she's almost declaring his future regret that hasn't happened yet.
19:29 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
19:30 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_07]: Or she's saying, I've already processed this and I've accepted it.
19:33 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm waiting for you to catch up.
19:35 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
19:36 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_07]: When the rain washes you clean, you'll know it sounds like someone who's already processed the paint and it's just waiting for the other person to catch up with them and they're processing of grief so they can move on together.
19:46 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're right because, you know, when it's skipped over the chorus, but the second verse is eye statement, right?
19:52 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Now here I go again.
19:53 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I see the crystal visions.
19:55 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
19:55 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I keep my visions to myself.
19:57 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: It's only me who wants to wrap around your dreams.
20:01 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
20:03 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Dreams of loneliness like a heartbeat drives you mad and is stillness of remembering what you had and what you lost.
20:09 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_07]: Great.
20:09 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_07]: Like she's already processed.
20:11 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_07]: Like she knows that it's not going to work out between them.
20:14 --> 20:15 [SPEAKER_07]: She doesn't want to get back together.
20:15 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_07]: She just wants to keep moving forward.
20:17 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_07]: She's accepted her grief.
20:18 --> 20:24 [SPEAKER_07]: She's gone through bargaining in denial and anger and rage and all the other feelings associated with it.
20:24 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_07]: And now she's just arrived at this like quiet, formidable acceptance of grief that this is.
20:31 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_07]: This is where we're at.
20:32 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_07]: We just have to keep moving forward and move on from it and not dwell on the past and like when are you going to catch up with me?
20:39 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_07]: So we can like keep moving forward.
20:41 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Where in the model?
20:43 --> 20:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Kubla Kahn's model.
20:44 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Who is it?
20:45 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
20:46 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_07]: So the Kubla Ross model of grief describes five stages of grief denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance or dabda.
21:00 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Where is Lindsey Buckingham?
21:02 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, Lindsey.
21:03 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_00]: You're apparently behind in the stage.
21:05 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know there isn't an order.
21:06 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
21:07 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You talked about that one.
21:08 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about Bonthugs a year ago.
21:09 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_07]: For a short.
21:10 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But she's talking about where he is.
21:13 --> 21:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And who a break-up or a divorce?
21:16 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I imagine has grief to it, but also there's sometimes anger, right?
21:19 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, absolutely.
21:20 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_00]: She's not overtly anger, especially in such a beautiful song, showing anger, but there is a kind of like, oh, yeah, how you're going to feel with your whole loneliness that you're about experience, buddy.
21:30 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, where is that?
21:32 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you say she's at acceptance, but she's also kind of snickering a little bit maybe at what he's about to experience.
21:38 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So where is that fit in with this?
21:41 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_07]: I so code that as acceptance, like she's gotten to the point that she's accepted that she went through this denial period.
21:48 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_07]: And it's going to suck for you when you go through it too, when you start bargaining and when you're angry and when you get depressed just like I've already done all those things and now I've accepted it and now like how I interpret it like I'm better than you that you're still trapped in denial and you're bargaining depression and I've moved past it like I'm better than you for that.
22:12 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_07]: which is like a score for you like scorn to love her.
22:15 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Way to pay.
22:17 --> 22:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Let her write in, is she better than who's better?
22:19 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_07]: Steven next, you're Lindsey Buckhead.
22:22 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I'm going to say, Steven, next is better.
22:24 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_07]: It's the outfits for me.
22:26 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_00]: What?
22:26 --> 22:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's always about the outfits.
22:28 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_00]: What about, like is this model designed to be used for this kind of manifestations of grief or is it more supposed to be about personal loss?
22:38 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, death's like, is it supposed to be
22:42 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, my opinion is it's loss is loss.
22:46 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_07]: And when you're grieving a relationship, aren't you grieving like a death of the person you thought for when they're meant to work, we're in physically want to actually literally.
22:56 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_07]: But like, yeah, metaphorically, like the death of an interpersonal dynamic, right?
23:00 --> 23:01 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
23:01 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_07]: And this model isn't just for a death, like it can be applied to like anything.
23:06 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_07]: And it just helps frame your feelings.
23:09 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not like a rigid timeline, but more like a six little nature.
23:12 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_07]: Like you don't, it's not all of a sudden you wake up one day and you're like, oh, I'm going to enter anger.
23:16 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm entering bargaining.
23:17 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you kind of flow back and forth the bargaining piece we can see with terminating ill patients we can see with relationships that aren't meant to last that you say like what if right we see bargaining all the time let's just what if we move in together maybe that'll change what if we have a kid together maybe that'll fix it right yeah that's that bargaining moment
23:37 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that you can even get to acceptance and still go back to bargaining.
23:42 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Like for them on this whole Fleetwood Mac dynamic, they're still kind of in the bargaining phase because they need to navigate how they're going to work together.
23:51 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they still put out a few more.
23:54 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_07]: So they need to kind of reframe what that relationship looks like and the fact that just because their romantic relationship didn't work, they still had to maintain a relationship.
24:05 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_07]: Like they still had to work together and that I've never been in a band, but I can imagine that's an intimate relationship, songwriting with someone and like being creative with someone I can imagine that feels very intimate, not like romantically or sexually, but definitely emotionally.
24:21 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_07]: So I think that there is some bargaining and sort of acceptance that have to work hand-in-hand.
24:26 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_07]: It can just be pure acceptance and then you move on in a way that death can.
24:31 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_07]: So I think in some ways, it's more complicated, processing through the screen.
24:35 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think of like people who have failed or failing relationships, there's that moment people often cross into where the little things now bug you, right?
24:46 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh God, I hate the way that they say that word or I hate the way that they leave the dishes under like little things that you should be chill with so they drive you crazy.
24:54 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that,
24:55 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_00]: True when a band is breaking up, too.
24:57 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That like the little thing, God, I hate that vocal tick he does when he does a little, yeah, at the end of the voice, God, come on, basis, can't you lower your mid-range on your amp a little bit, God, like that little stupid stuff that people then start fighting.
25:09 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you watch the Beatles get back documentary and they're like, are you doing about the dumbest little stuff when they're on this recording sessions?
25:16 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You put those two things together.
25:18 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine Christine McVee, and although I don't know, like, don't stop as a little more pleasant, like, we'll get through this, like, maybe the McVee divorce was somehow more amicable, but like, if you've been brought to the point where you're breaking up or divorcing this person, and maybe every little thing they do drives you crazy, and then you have to, like, get on a tour bus with them, right?
25:39 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't even imagine.
25:40 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I know there's probably no psychological or therapeutic model for band breakups, but is there a stages of grief, kind of analog thing for someone processing romantic loss, right?
25:51 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of people probably are coming in and that's a problem they want to talk to their therapist about.
25:56 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think that this model can be applied for that.
25:58 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_07]: And this isn't like, while it was originally this, who blur us, duh, duh, duh, to have to have a model like was originally for like terminally ill people like processing through.
26:08 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
26:09 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_07]: The acceptance of the end of their life now, it's applied in a broad range of cases from like job laws to emotion, but relationship laws.
26:18 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_07]: to bands breaking up.
26:20 --> 26:33 [SPEAKER_07]: And in fact, more modern theorists added a sixth phase, which is finding meaning, like after just acceptance, you find out what did this loss teach me or how can I find meaning in this loss, which is different than acceptance.
26:33 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_07]: All right, acceptance is just recognizing that it happened full stop, but finding meaning is like why did it happen?
26:40 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that in the case of the McV song on this album, they have reached that meaning part, like don't stop believing this is all for the greater good.
26:51 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't stop believing other iconic 70s music different though.
26:54 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
26:54 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, shit, really?
26:56 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_06]: What's the name of the song?
26:58 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Don't stop.
26:59 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Believe that's tomorrow or what is it I what's the words verbing about tomorrow?
27:04 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
27:07 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so that is this like it'll be better than before yesterday's gone right that Like literally is about finding meaning in this loss where this song
27:17 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_07]: that we're focusing on today.
27:19 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_07]: Dreams is really about normalizing the loss without a lot of drama.
27:24 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_07]: Really hinting at finding emotional closure, but you're not quite there yet.
27:28 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_07]: We're still kind of working towards emotional closure and letting the sadness exist without a resolution, just like being in that sadness for a brief period of time.
27:37 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
27:37 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_07]: Whereas we move forward through their catalog, you do start seeing not only just that acceptance but that search for meaning and your grief of the relationship loss.
27:48 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_07]: So I think it's a really interesting model, especially when you look at that coobler rust model and then extend it to more modern theories that focus on the finding meaning and loss.
27:57 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_07]: It's really like strange space positive psychology type of approach that I really support and I think you can see the nuances and that grief processing throughout this album with those two specifics on as an example and I think the meaning is found by touring this record and
28:13 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_00]: making your money off this record and having these be some of the signature songs that for the rest of your life people are saying, you know, when people go up to Lindsey Buckingham, they're probably not saying, hey, can you play holiday road from, you know, Christmas vacation or whatever they're saying, hey, can you play, never going back again or whatever these songs from this record.
28:32 --> 28:33 [SPEAKER_07]: That's such a great song.
28:33 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_07]: because it is very, very relatable.
28:35 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_07]: So many people have gone through grief and loss and so many different motifs in their life that you can layer that this music onto that.
28:44 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_07]: That's why there's such relatable hit songs, because every human has felt this feeling.
28:50 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
28:50 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_07]: And that's why said before, I'll say it again, I love grief.
28:53 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm like so into it because it's so connecting and they've found a way to monetize it, even though that probably wasn't their direct
29:02 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, Album.
29:03 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
29:04 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
29:05 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
29:05 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Should we talk music?
29:06 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:07 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I like it.
29:07 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:08 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
29:08 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I never was thinking about this as a grief.
29:11 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I had my, my instincts you were going to talk kind of about the band dynamics there, but grief is an interesting take on it like it.
29:30 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what I actually wanna talk about as I mentioned is the phrase structure of this song, and it's interesting use of something that we could actually call phrase illusion in an elided phrase.
29:43 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So think of a musical phrase as essentially a sentence, like one complete idea, and that would be both melody and chords, often together, team up to make a phrase.
29:56 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, a musical sentence is actually a type of phrase
30:00 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_07]: These are the term Elysian, you spell that for us.
30:03 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Elysian, ELL, I-S-I-O-N. Yeah, Elysian, Elysian, and you lied to phrases ELL ID.
30:14 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool, thank you.
30:15 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So phrase structure is actually a smaller subdivision of form.
30:19 --> 30:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you think back to our boys to men up.
30:20 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So we were talking about versus choruses.
30:22 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: A, I'm D. You can actually use the letter names, A, B, C for phrase two, but people usually use lowercase letters.
30:30 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So like A, A, prime means lowercase A, lowercase A means one phrase, and then the phrase again with the two.
30:37 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_07]: Do I need to print the lyrics again?
30:39 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_00]: We are not going through phrase by phrase formally here.
30:42 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_07]: but because I'll print them.
30:44 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I know you well.
30:46 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you well.
30:47 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You did before you're going to take notes.
30:48 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we need to in this song, right?
30:51 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So like I said, phrase structure, we should be thinking both melody and harmony chords together.
30:57 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking for essentially a pause in the melody or some kind of a rival in the chords.
31:03 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
31:04 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And then those things may be starting again.
31:06 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you hear something kind of reach a conclusion, that's the end of a phrase.
31:10 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: When you hear something start a new, that's the beginning of a phrase.
31:14 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So to use just as an example, let's listen to a part of, you make loving fun again, and just try to recognize where the phrase is starting in.
31:33 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_03]: But I've a feeling it's time to try.
31:40 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So she says, I never did believe in miracles and then there's a long pause there.
31:45 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You might be tempted to say that's the end of the phrase.
31:46 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_07]: It's not.
31:47 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
31:48 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_00]: She almost could continue that that hold the note longer because we don't really have a pause in the melody yet and the chords are still moving through their trajectory.
31:58 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not until we reach the last chord that you feel things ending.
32:02 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So listen one more time.
32:10 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Still going, but I have a feeling it's time to try.
32:19 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're hearing that you kind of have to listen to both the melody and the chords to get it right.
32:23 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_07]: When you call that second line like a two part phrase or is it just like one, because there's like two parts to it, but it doesn't resolve until the end of the phrase.
32:31 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_07]: So do you consider it one phrase or like a compound phrase?
32:35 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one phrase that has two parts, I think that's fair to say.
32:38 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_07]: not like a compound trace.
32:40 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You and does that term exist compound is used in different context as forms and stuff.
32:44 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't want to use that term, but I wouldn't.
32:47 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_07]: It makes sense.
32:48 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't know.
32:48 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It does make sense.
32:49 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I think most phrases have a beginning in it, right?
32:53 --> 32:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just being a little fun.
32:54 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them have a middle, not one.
32:55 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not really a middle.
32:56 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_07]: No, it's beginning at end.
32:58 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
32:58 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So, if we bring this to this song, though, what did I say about this song?
33:04 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't really have
33:07 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_00]: harmonically, I'll be getting in an end.
33:10 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_07]: No, it just loops.
33:11 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Cored, chord two, chord one, chord two.
33:19 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if we're going to think harmonically about starting and restarting, it's going to be that first chord that's our starting point, but it kind of just keeps going, so it's because that's a two measure phrase, right?
33:30 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_00]: One, two, three, four, one, two, three, four,
33:34 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Unless we have everything that she sings, be two phrases, we may not have exact alignment with the melody and the chords in terms of our phrase structure, right?
33:44 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
33:45 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's endlessly looping restarting every two bars, so we're not going to get actually that much help by the chord progression in this song.
33:50 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
33:51 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And also all of the lines, almost all of the next several one part of the song, her last note is an A or a C. She either ends on do the A or do the C. There's one note, one phrase where she ends on a G. I say that to highlight that there isn't a lot of variety in the way the melody's phrases are ending to tell us like, oh, that one has a lot of tension.
34:12 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_00]: This one doesn't.
34:13 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So we really have to listen to the pacing of things, the hypnotic loop of
34:20 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But also I think freed Steven next when she was riding this to come up with a phrase structure that's really quite strange, and that's what I want to highlight in this song because I feel like this is a song that you could choose to do karaoke or something and realize your screwed when you're a few ways because it's not four plus four plus four and because the chords are just looping the whole time.
34:41 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like halfway through the pre-chorus and then the chorus starts and you're like, oh, I messed up.
34:45 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_07]: And like you think it's the song that you think you know, but like when you start to sing it, I'm guided.
34:51 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_07]: You're like, oh, no 100%.
34:52 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's listen, right?
34:54 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's listen to what we got here.
34:55 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Here is the first part of the first verse.
34:59 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a four bar phrase, paste it over the two bar cord loop.
35:03 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's pretty straightforwardly, her phrase, her sentence occupies two of the chord progressions.
35:16 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_04]: We're breathing, we're breathing, we're breathing, we're breathing, we're breathing, we're breathing.
35:26 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_00]: The first half of that is one continuous idea, which is exactly four bars long, so two laps through the core progression.
35:35 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But when she goes back to, now who am I?
35:39 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's starting over.
35:40 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're, it telegraphs that we have a four bar phrase and then a little two bar phrase.
35:46 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_00]: and then two bars of silence.
35:48 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So if we say and we're not right now the form but if we say this opening melody pa pa da is a we then have a little a prime a with the apostrophe right which is a mini version so let's listen to that again for for bar phrase here we go three or rest start again one two over two bars of silence
36:14 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have a four bar idea that then gets shortened.
36:19 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it kind of feels like a continuous eight bars, but it's really like a broken repeat because then she just waits while the chords groove.
36:27 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_07]: She's just like waiting for him to catch up.
36:29 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess.
36:30 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, great.
36:31 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Love it.
36:32 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_04]: And then what happens next?
36:52 --> 36:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So that part's weird.
36:53 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That's weird.
36:54 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird because this is a complete idea.
36:56 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_00]: For bar idea, a different melody with this would be lowercase B.
37:00 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_04]: We saw the red, they should play the way you'd be with.
37:08 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_00]: For bar, complete idea.
37:09 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
37:10 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_00]: What's happening here?
37:12 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll listen again.
37:17 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a complete idea?
37:19 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
37:20 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Kinda maybe, but it's sort of still mid-thought, right?
37:22 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
37:24 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_04]: The loading is like a heartbeat that you make.
37:28 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But she's still going.
37:29 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_00]: She's still going.
37:30 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though the pre-chorus just started.
37:31 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
37:32 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So the pre-chorus is just started while she is in the middle of her phrase.
37:36 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_07]: So the phrase, like, no, I'm looking at the lyrics in your home and lyrics.
37:39 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_07]: She's still like chunk it, right?
37:42 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
37:42 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_07]: This phrase,
37:44 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_07]: Stressed is in between two different stances.
37:46 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sure if that's the right word, which are different like chunks and the lyrics.
37:50 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Sections.
37:50 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, yes.
37:51 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It does.
37:52 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's actually an indentation and trying to use stanza.
37:55 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
37:55 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_07]: And which is annoying?
37:57 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Her poem sort of straddles it, but so does the music.
38:01 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
38:01 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But we very much just had the start of even though it's a repeating chord progression.
38:06 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Essentially,
38:07 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's clear we're at the start of the pre-chorus on that heartbeat drives you mad.
38:11 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_00]: We have the new guitar and like changes and vibraphone part come in.
38:15 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_00]: The backup vocals, which I think here, is just Stevie recorded a few times.
38:20 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we have this little second idea.
38:23 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's only right that you would, what's the line.
38:28 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_07]: They should play the way you feel it, right?
38:33 --> 38:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's four.
38:36 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But then the next thing is a seven bar thing that rattles the start of the next section of the song.
38:42 --> 38:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is where this relates to something called phrase illusion.
38:45 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
38:45 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is actually really common in pop music.
38:48 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Where the end of one thing is also the beginning of a new thing.
38:51 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
38:51 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_00]: If we think about this with like, this would be really stupid use of the term poetry.
38:57 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But in spoken poetry or whatever.
38:58 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:59 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You know that.
38:59 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_00]: It's straight to hello operator.
39:02 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
39:05 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_00]: line, right?
39:06 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's the end of one thing and the start of another.
39:09 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Now in pop music harmonically with chords, this is all over the place because anytime you have a repeated chord progression, the restart is often also the resolution of the previous lap, tons of overlap.
39:22 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But in like classical music, this may not be true because you might have a bum bum bum, ending a phrase, and then a new start.
39:28 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But in pop songs, not as common.
39:30 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But so this isn't just to say, oh, it's a phrase illusion isn't quite right because really what we have isn't overlap here, right?
39:37 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Where?
39:39 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_00]: She is one bar, well we'd have to listen to it again, but she's like one bar into her phrase when the pre chorus starts and so to my count she ends up with seven bar phrase that straddles two sections of the song.
39:51 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's listen to the first half of the pre chorus to hear what I'm talking about.
39:54 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll start with the end of the verse, which is where this little phrase starts.
40:11 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we're end there, right?
40:14 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We finally end, and that's the pre-chorus isn't done yet.
40:17 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But the wild thing is that we, this whole time, had this boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and so the chords are happening in cycles of two, right?
40:27 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And so her melody has been happening in cycles of two.
40:30 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But here, she starts on the last bar of the section.
40:33 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So she's starting on chord number two,
40:36 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And then she's off by the cords for the next the first six bars of the pre-chorus.
40:42 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll listen again, but notice how she's going to start her phrase on the second cord, the start of every phrase of her starts on the back half.
40:51 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like off.
40:53 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's very tense.
41:09 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And so she's like, there's a three bar phrase in there too.
41:12 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, I learned my lesson after editing the boys to men episode because I had to literally like put in our show notes, the actual final analysis because it was like, baby, so I'm, we're not going through and being like, it's three bars plus two bars, just trust me.
41:28 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a weird overlap here.
41:29 --> 41:30 [SPEAKER_07]: There's a weird overlap.
41:30 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And it does, with all the space in the second half of the pre-chorus, it does sort of,
41:36 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Stabilize a bit.
41:38 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you listen, there's these mini phrases she does and it like it's almost like it lets her calm down a little bit.
41:43 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like echoes exactly on the what you lost what you have.
41:48 --> 41:49 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's really beautiful.
41:49 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And what you know.
41:53 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And what you have.
41:58 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_04]: What you know.
42:03 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we go to the chorus.
42:04 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's this seven bar phrase, but since it starts at the end of the verse, it's six.
42:11 --> 42:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It's six within the pre-chorus, and she's making up the rest of the 12 bars of the pre-chorus with tunes, basically.
42:16 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're off.
42:18 --> 42:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, it's just a very cool moment.
42:20 --> 42:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And if we think about this from the perspective, maybe of Stevie Nicks riding this, who's more of a vocalist than she was a keyboardist, right?
42:27 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Who just kind of probably, she's sitting at slicedones keyboard
42:32 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_00]: setting her hands on autopilot and just kind of coming up with lines.
42:36 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_00]: If I play the vocal by itself, it sounds very natural and it sounds like somebody would just kind of unfold their thoughts as a stream of consciousness and it's only when we put it against the rest of the music that anything
43:03 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And what you love, and what you hate, and what you love.
43:13 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, it's so beautiful.
43:16 --> 43:17 [SPEAKER_07]: Why did they break up?
43:17 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know like what the, do you know the, They did the gossip.
43:20 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the, the band, not the band.
43:22 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The band.
43:23 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The band.
43:23 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The band.
43:24 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Nickson.
43:24 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Buckingham.
43:25 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
43:25 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
43:26 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
43:26 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
43:27 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_07]: They're like, say it.
43:28 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot about this album and stuff.
43:30 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do not know the actual.
43:32 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_07]: He fucked up.
43:33 --> 43:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
43:33 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he did.
43:34 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he didn't nod.
43:36 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_07]: He didn't know everything.
43:38 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_00]: There's two sides of every story at that.
43:40 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some some degree of that.
43:41 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know listeners right in if you actually know Lindsey if you want if you want to come on at a tone.
43:46 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So we finally get to the chorus in this refreshingly maybe four bar phrases.
44:07 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And the only notable thing really is the second half of that chorus she fills in the gap with one little tag at the end.
44:32 --> 44:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And that would be another example of an elided cadence.
44:35 --> 44:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We call that a cadence is the end of the phrase.
44:37 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe I haven't said that yet.
44:38 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_00]: The elided cadence, you know.
44:41 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_00]: She's ending that phrase, but that is also the start of this section.
44:46 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_07]: Dare I say, it's also like she's ending her grief process with acceptance.
44:52 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And you'll know.
44:53 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's interesting.
44:55 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And interestingly, she lands on that.
44:56 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned there was one A minor chord, one point in the chord progression changes.
45:01 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm highlighting this section too because the harmonic rhythm also changes.
45:05 --> 45:15 [SPEAKER_00]: We have like a weird overlap here where we go instead of just F and G, it goes F and then G for two bars, F and then A minor for what?
45:15 --> 45:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So we get this weird middle part of the phrase that is longer, which is kind of unusual.
45:26 --> 45:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Then a restart, a minor, finally.
45:37 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not quite the same, but we kind of have the straddling happening in that section too.
45:43 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if we think of the song just kind of sum up and then I've got a couple examples, we start off with like a four bar phrase, but then it starts over and only gets halfway through.
45:53 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get another four bar phrase and then this weird seven bar thing that straddles and then these this odd overlapping stuff happening with sort of a phrase illusion and then finally it pays off on this chorus that actually gives us four bar phrases, but even that ends with a phrase illusion onto the next section something about the idea of dreams and tension, but not painful not like, like, like resignation.
46:20 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Looping emotions that are cycles that you maybe want to get out of, but maybe are comfortable to you.
46:26 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this disembodied phrase structure that in relationship to the backing instrumentation, the melodic phrase structure being separate from the harmonic phrase structure, which is really uncommon, really reinforces the themes of this song.
46:42 --> 46:45 [SPEAKER_07]: For sure, it like normalizes
46:45 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_07]: sadness without closure and let's it exist without offering a resolution and that's the phrase structure does too.
46:55 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_07]: It's it's not early offering a resolution like looping in a way that's just very cyclical.
47:01 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_07]: and is normalizing, yes, sadness, normalizing loss without drama and like a big deal about it.
47:08 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_07]: It's just, it exists.
47:10 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
47:10 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_07]: And that really goes back to these stages of grief and how it's cyclical.
47:14 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_07]: So I think we're doing it today.
47:16 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_07]: We're doing it and really connecting different movies, which we love, we love on that.
47:20 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing I like doing is connecting to other music.
47:22 --> 47:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So some other examples of interesting phrase overlap or illusion that isn't just the
47:31 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So some other examples of similar things, this is wind-dubbed cry, friends, of course, 1984, a new phrase starts right as the old phrase ends.
47:40 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have any sense.
47:42 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's actually probably not really possible to perform this fully without more than one singer live.
48:04 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, so the heat between me and you how can you just like that arrival is the same as the we should be talking about prints more.
48:11 --> 48:15 [SPEAKER_07]: I think we never talk about prints here.
48:15 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, prince can we can do prince.
48:17 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I love prince.
48:17 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_07]: That's the list.
48:18 --> 48:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, well, I tried to bring prince up.
48:19 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember when I played Diamond and Pearls and you're like never heard it.
48:22 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you had heard it.
48:24 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
48:24 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
48:24 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_07]: Now, for example, this sounds like me.
48:26 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_00]: R. E. M. 1988 Orange Crush.
48:29 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_07]: No.
48:29 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_00]: The curtains are playing a four bar phrase liar.
48:31 --> 48:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You know this song, really?
48:32 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
48:33 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
48:33 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
48:33 --> 48:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Stay tuned.
48:34 --> 48:34 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
48:34 --> 48:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I called her a liar, everybody.
48:35 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to play that listeners.
48:37 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are some Nicole.
48:38 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_00]: They're on my side.
48:39 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
48:40 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Courts are of doing a four bar phrase, but the backing vocals have two bars of it, and then the lead has two bars of it, but then the lead keeps going.
48:49 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the lead kind of like we have almost a weird phrase overlap with the lead sort of gets in the space of the phrase that should be the backing vocals.
49:19 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we like kept going over that.
49:21 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I've never heard that song.
49:22 --> 49:42 [SPEAKER_07]: But it's a great example of a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo, a loo
49:42 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I've really doubt it.
49:43 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, but I don't know.
49:44 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_07]: No, I'm not.
49:45 --> 49:46 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't really.
49:46 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it about the guitar and orange crush?
49:48 --> 49:49 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know any of those.
49:49 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_07]: Well, any of them.
49:50 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we need to listen to R. R. R. I've got some amazing stats for the less.
49:53 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, a couple more.
49:54 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_07]: So it's good music.
49:55 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it really is too much.
49:57 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is 1978 Kate Bush withering Heights.
50:00 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, right.
50:02 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is more art pop less synthy sort of maybe this one has instruments alternating in four four and three four.
50:11 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So we got like a real like complicated.
50:13 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_00]: This song is nuts.
50:14 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_07]: A meter.
50:15 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But the question you love meter.
50:17 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you love a good four.
50:20 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_07]: And four in the floor.
50:21 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's be listened to this.
50:23 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Where is the start of her phrase?
50:25 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
50:25 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_00]: The meter changes a part of it.
50:26 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's the way her melodic phrase structure is presented.
50:30 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we have phrase illusion or what?
50:32 --> 50:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Because does her phrase start on the word heap cliff?
50:35 --> 50:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it start on?
50:36 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's me.
50:37 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Kathy.
50:38 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Or does it start on so cold?
50:40 --> 50:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like what is going on with the phrases?
50:42 --> 50:44 [SPEAKER_07]: You know what the song.
50:44 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's all one phrase for the being kind of but it's like
51:12 --> 51:15 [SPEAKER_07]: It's repeating, so you want it to have a break somewhere.
51:15 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some kind of a break, right?
51:17 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
51:17 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's repeating and so there kind of has to be a break.
51:19 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_07]: But there's no like cord resolution that indicates to me the end of a phrase.
51:23 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Surely.
51:24 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, where would the phrase, where would it be, or is it?
51:29 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's me, I'm Kathy, or is it?
51:30 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So ho ho.
51:31 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_07]: Kate, what is weird, right?
51:33 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_07]: It's weird, but I love it.
51:34 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's sort of this endless loop, right?
51:37 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_00]: One more example.
51:39 --> 51:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a song I think is in our future.
51:41 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_00]: They might be giants, birdhouse in your soul.
51:43 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_07]: They're touring soon.
51:44 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
51:45 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they've kind of never stopped.
51:47 --> 51:48 [SPEAKER_00]: They're always doing albums.
51:48 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_00]: 1990.
51:49 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we're doing this this season, but I think I want to talk about this because it has all sorts of gnarly key changes.
51:54 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's such a cool song.
51:56 --> 52:02 [SPEAKER_00]: The progression restarts basically as one phrase ends on soul, the new phrase starts again.
52:03 --> 52:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Happens to be in a different key, but the end is the beginning of this and it just happens throughout this whole song.
52:08 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_02]: You can air in the out there by the lights witch Who watches over you?
52:13 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Take a little birdhouse You're so much of a too fine upon it Say it, I'm the only being your body Take a little birdhouse in your soul
52:26 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_07]: That's delightful.
52:27 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know that sounds specifically, but I just like so good.
52:30 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_07]: They're so whimsical and fun, but the kid's stuff is great.
52:34 --> 52:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's very shocking there because we have the key change.
52:36 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_00]: But birdhouse in your soul, not too far out of it.
52:39 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's not, he's gives himself a breath, but the phrase really starts as he's arriving.
52:44 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, that's awesome.
52:45 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
52:46 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Music.
52:46 --> 52:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Any fun thing to end on here.
52:48 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we are about to also record a side track about thing with Mac and more listeners.
52:52 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_00]: She has no idea what I'm about to talk about except that it relates to rumors.
52:57 --> 52:58 [SPEAKER_07]: I love rumors.
52:59 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_07]: I love gossip.
53:00 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_07]: I want to know more about like what happened.
53:02 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_07]: They're very guarded about it from what I might limited internet search.
53:06 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_07]: So I want to know.
53:09 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Who do you think
53:13 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It's liquid.
53:14 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fluid.
53:14 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's fault.
53:15 --> 53:17 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the only one not breaking up with them.
53:17 --> 53:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that he secretly?
53:19 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_07]: I haven't been weird for him to, right?
53:21 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_07]: Like God's talking about that.
53:22 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_07]: He was just like playing drums.
53:24 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Weird for him to have the entire of the rest of your band coupled up.
53:29 --> 53:32 [SPEAKER_07]: Imagine if they re-coupled, though, you know, like mixed up.
53:32 --> 53:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that might be a part of the math here.
53:34 --> 53:38 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, they did all if they were doing all those drugs, like it's fun to happen.
53:38 --> 53:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Like in that, couldn't they do it for the strain?
53:40 --> 53:42 [SPEAKER_07]: In part of McFlywood, I am self.
53:43 --> 53:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't even want to be in a relationship with another musician, let alone how many conversations can I have about music all day?
53:50 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to just have it at work.
53:52 --> 53:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when I'm talking to Nicole, like, my wife loves music, but we don't sit around talking to music.
53:58 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like to say the least of being in a band with somebody that you're also, it's like, what are you going to just talk about the album all day long, like, oh, come on.
54:07 --> 54:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Too much.
54:08 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_07]: Like, I wouldn't want to be married to another psychologist.
54:11 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, already I drive my family crazy over their table, like talking about processing grief.
54:16 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be fair for them to drive you crazy too.
54:19 --> 54:20 [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, it has to.
54:20 --> 54:22 [SPEAKER_07]: I can only be the I can be the only one.
54:27 --> 54:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Nevermind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and me, Mark Poppinny.
54:31 --> 54:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I also produce.
54:33 --> 54:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Please leave us a rating and a review and don't forget to follow.
54:37 --> 54:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We're never music pot on social media and you can also send us an email at nevermusicpot at gmail.com.
54:44 --> 54:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Nevermind the music is part of the lorehounds network.
54:47 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Join the conversation by going to the lorehounds.com and hop on our Discord server.
54:53 --> 54:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.