Who better to judge Boomer music than a member of Generation Alpha? In this Sidetrack, Mark’s son makes a surprising and controversial proclamation about the production of the universally-acclaimed 1977 Fleetwood Mac opus, Rumours. Mark takes us through the innovations of multi-track recording that led to the immaculate-sounding albums of the 1970s, and Nichole is left to judge - is the kid right? Check us out next week for another regular episode!
Music heard in this episode: Les Paul and Mary Ford - “How High is the Moon”, Stevie Wonder - “I Call It Pretty Music But the Old People Call it the Blues”, Stevie Wonder - “Uptight (Everything’s Alright)”, Stevie Wonder - “Living For the City”, Stevie Wonder - “Sir Duke”, Stevie Wonder - “Master Blaster (Jammin’)”, Fleetwood Mac - “Second Hand News”, Fleetwood Mac - “Dreams”, Fleetwood Mac - “Never Going Back Again”, Fleetwood Mac - “Don’t Stop”, Fleetwood Mac - “Go Your Own Way”
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00:00 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So do you like flea woodmack?
00:02 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'm not not, I don't love it.
00:06 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't love it.
00:07 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's fine, but it's a little...
00:09 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_00]: If I had to put words in your mouth, would you say that it's good, but kind of like lame?
00:13 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I wouldn't even describe it as bad.
00:16 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
00:16 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just some parts are fine.
00:18 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_02]: It is lame.
00:19 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not entirely white.
00:20 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it.
00:21 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes lame is okay.
00:34 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I'm Nicole.
00:34 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Mark.
00:35 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is never mind the music.
00:37 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It sure is.
00:37 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: What are we talking about?
00:38 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wait.
00:39 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea.
00:40 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_00]: She actually doesn't know.
00:41 --> 00:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So we are recording a side track that is, I have set up as a surprise for Nicole's.
00:47 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_00]: All she knows is that we are talking about something related to Fleetwood Matt.
00:50 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We just recorded our Fleetwood Mac episode.
00:53 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_00]: If you haven't checked that out, we've got a lot of thoughts on their record rumors.
00:57 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
00:58 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And I hate surprises, by the way.
01:01 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like them.
01:02 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_01]: They make me uncomfortable.
01:03 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Because who knows what's going to happen next?
01:05 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever had a surprise birthday party?
01:06 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I would not like that.
01:08 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You'd be unhappy.
01:09 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I have.
01:09 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I think once.
01:10 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't like it.
01:11 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe I would.
01:12 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I get kind of anxious in social situations.
01:14 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe the surprise would be good, because I wouldn't have time to like want to back out, you know?
01:19 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't necessarily don't like surprises, but I don't like myself in the moment.
01:24 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So like I look back and I like I did have my 40th birthday party was a surprise like, oh my friends are clear here at this brewery how fun, but I'm like self-conscious that in that moment did I have like a look of like distaste on my face like what are you doing here?
01:38 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Why are my kids here?
01:39 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: What is going on?
01:39 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Like so yeah, but this will be good surprise.
01:44 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to hear a lot of thoughts on rumors, 1977 Fleetwood Mac record, listen to our coverage of dreams from last week.
01:52 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I mentioned that this is thought by many to be one of the best albums of all time, but also specifically one of the best produced albums of all time in terms of the recording itself.
02:03 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_00]: you know this is a rolling stone magazine time magazine this shows up on the list of like the ten best produced albums yes there is somebody else that has a hot take about this though that i would like you to hear and respond to okay so what are we talking here the production team we should call out can call at k-lat i don't know call it k-art i don't know how to pronounce it sorry can and Richard dashed
02:26 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just wanted to give a little bit of background and kind of explain why this album sounds so good as a representation of the mid to late 70s.
02:35 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So it has something to do with the aesthetic of that era.
02:38 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we'll get to the surprise.
02:39 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry.
02:40 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
02:41 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Because by then, we're almost at the disco era, right?
02:44 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_00]: We have the soft filly soul out.
02:47 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Pop rock is a bound at this point.
02:50 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We have just polish is the sound that people want.
02:53 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_00]: The status quo is something, everything sounding beautiful.
02:57 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Enough that by the late 70s, we have things like punk and hip hop that are directly grinding against that, exactly, yeah.
03:05 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But a lot of this also, and I wanted to start here kind of, has to do with technological advancements that lead to this beautiful production in the mid-70s, right?
03:15 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And technology can reinforce the aesthetic, right?
03:18 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, T-Pane can sound like T-Pane because of auto-tune being available, but then,
03:24 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_00]: T-pane sounding like T-pane, not only does that cause other people to do that, but then it causes, and I know he wasn't the first.
03:31 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But then it causes technological innovations that also will maybe fuel more of the auto to kind of sound, right?
03:37 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the snake eating its tail.
03:38 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly right.
03:39 --> 03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So, the salbum by the way took over a year to make, which we've talked there was a lot of like cocaine and arguments about that.
03:46 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's fighting drama, emotional entanglement.
03:48 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was mostly recorded at the record plant in Sousa, Lido, California.
03:52 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Sousa, Lido, like the cookie.
03:55 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a type of cook?
03:56 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like on a pepperage farm, like the Milano that's oscillado.
03:59 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: What is oscillado taste like?
04:01 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like that hazelnuts and it's really good.
04:03 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like chocolate chip with hazelnuts.
04:04 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the best one.
04:05 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So Marin County, North of San Francisco, that's oscillado.
04:08 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it the best county?
04:10 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like top 50 California County.
04:13 --> 04:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it like the Hushie like a hazelnut?
04:14 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, Marin County was like the hippie retreat kind of thing.
04:19 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And now it's like the rich former hippies move
04:24 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a nuts bougie.
04:25 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's like a hippie way.
04:27 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_00]: My brother lived in Germany and he would talk about hazelnuts just like fall off the trees So it's like a puzzle noots.
04:33 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_00]: They're a delicacy here, but all right anyway.
04:36 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I like to see so
04:38 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_00]: This album was recorded using mostly an API, 24 track recording console, probably cost tens of thousands of dollars in 1970's money.
04:49 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's millions of dollars today.
04:51 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Hundreds of thousands to say the least.
04:53 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
04:54 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And the other forms of studio gear, like fancy new equalizers, effects, stuff that was also expensive as hack.
05:00 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_00]: right?
05:02 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And so part of what this aesthetic and everything sounding so pretty is associated with is new advances in multi-track recording.
05:11 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean to you if I say multi-track recording?
05:14 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: the fact that you could record more than one track at the same time, right?
05:18 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Multi.
05:18 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Multi track and this, when I say a 24 track recording console, that means you could record like the drummer with eight microphones on the drummer.
05:29 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_00]: A few singers, each of them with their own mic, two guitar mics.
05:32 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: The keyboard could have stereo mic in front of it.
05:35 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_00]: The bass player gets his own mic, plus a DI input directly.
05:40 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of producing to put all that together.
05:42 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of work, a lot of money.
05:44 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But the deal is you could then record it and then say, oh, let's turn the base down and only the base down.
05:50 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, let's turn Christine McVee's backup vocal down, but turn up Stevie Nick's back up.
05:55 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that why I'm the fluid mac episode?
05:56 --> 06:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You could be like, here, Stevie Nick's his vocals, because you had like the individual track of that.
06:01 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_00]: they did save like you you would need AI.
06:04 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_00]: If you had like a chuckberry tune, you need AI or something to extract the base guitar.
06:09 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But there you go.
06:11 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Or the double base.
06:12 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But here there is a track that was saved.
06:14 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_00]: That is just even for podcasting.
06:17 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is changed.
06:18 --> 06:19 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
06:19 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't mean we all have access to all of those masters in the original, but you do write you own the playwood Mac Masters I don't know the masters of it.
06:28 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So I weren't saying they're a studio right now.
06:30 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly right.
06:31 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm podcasting.
06:34 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So we've probably mentioned Mono and stereo audio over the floor, right?
06:38 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's easy to imagine.
06:40 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Mono is just one thing where you're left and right ears sound the same.
06:44 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Stereo, they're different.
06:45 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's two tracks too.
06:47 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But we're asking, or we're talking here mostly about recording, not about the final output, right?
06:53 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you could do multi track output, to a Stink surround sound, where you've got four corners of the room plus a subwoofer.
07:00 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Like polyphonic.
07:02 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't mean it's probably fine, whatever.
07:04 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Where's the surprise?
07:05 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Where's the surprise?
07:05 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
07:06 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's say you recorded on a two track system, but you're recording.
07:11 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is what it would have been decades and decades ago.
07:14 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And you had a whole band.
07:16 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You could adjust the volume of one of the mics, but not the other.
07:19 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But that one mic might have all the vocals on it.
07:22 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The other microphone.
07:23 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The other track might have the whole band on it.
07:25 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So.
07:25 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an appended of whether you could like a record extra on top of what you're recording light.
07:30 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you're recording an overdub, depending on the number of tracks you're either adding that overdub on top of a track that's already been recorded or it gets a don't track.
07:40 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what that overdub is?
07:41 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I imagine when they record something on top of something else.
07:44 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like I've recorded my vocal, but I'm going to record another vocal, or because you could, let's put a second guitar part on top, right?
07:51 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You need separate tracks.
07:53 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what they call it in eight track?
07:55 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Like go.
07:56 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So in eight track,
07:57 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But like the thing that you play there, yeah, that has more to do with the output.
08:01 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that like in the way that it does it just literally have eight tracks of different audio.
08:06 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know much about eight tracks.
08:08 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, bud.
08:08 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So our superpowers as Zenials is we started with vinyl move to cassettes move to CDs move to digital.
08:19 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've experienced that.
08:20 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a final, but back to final.
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But what's missing that equation is an eight track.
08:23 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never used an eight track of my life.
08:25 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't even really know what the, I'd have to look up what it actually signifies.
08:30 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But anyways, this overdubbing is when you just lay something on top of something you've already recorded.
08:35 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the first groups to popularize this, do you know the name Les Paul?
08:39 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah like the guitar like there's a guitar named after him he was a famous guitarist that I guess collaborated to help Gibson design that guitar but he was a recording artist with his wife Mary Ford and they also less in particular was in a fissio nato with this early multi-track technology and so
09:00 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: 1953.
09:01 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how high is the moon.
09:03 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_00]: This is them overdubbing a bunch of marries on vocals and a bunch of lesses on guitar.
09:10 --> 09:11 [SPEAKER_00]: She also played guitar too.
09:11 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think she might be in there too.
09:13 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And this was extremely expensive.
09:15 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Like
09:16 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_00]: some of these things he was the first person to buy it and it would be tens of thousands of dollars at the time and this layering he would call sound on sound where you would just keep adding layers but once they're added you can't take it off right so he would come up with multiple multiple layers using only a four or eight track but he'd have like 16 parts because he just like pasted on here's how high is the moon 1953 and
09:57 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like her choir of her voices because of the technology.
10:02 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So just real quick, walking through our build-up to 24 tracks.
10:07 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Stereo recording was invented in the late 1800s.
10:09 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Two tracks don't really become a thing until the 40s.
10:13 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So start our timeline then, okay?
10:16 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_00]: four tracks at the same time.
10:18 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what like some of the early Beatles stuff would have been recorded was invented in the 50s and really was the standard throughout the 1960s.
10:25 --> 10:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry, I'll give you some examples in a second.
10:28 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So eventually then we get a track recording.
10:31 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: By the time we get to the late 60s they've invented 16 track and then those became popular in the 70s and you even then get 24 tracks.
10:40 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_01]: You can manipulate so many tracks.
10:42 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, tens of thousands of dollars at the time, too many dollars, which is hundreds of thousands now.
10:48 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's track the move from lower track count to high track count, and then we'll get to what we're really doing here.
10:54 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted an artist that we could really track the pathway through this that was existed in this era.
10:59 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So Stevie Wonder, let's listen to Stevie Navigate these changes.
11:04 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is 1962, first single recorded on two track recording.
11:09 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I call it pretty music, but the old people call it the blues.
11:26 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_06]: sort of a subtle change we get to uptight everything is all right 1966 recorded on or tracks.
11:48 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: and the most dramatic change comes in the 70s with the 16 track, living for the city, 1973, also in stereo in a original recording.
12:21 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
12:22 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You can hear all the detail, right?
12:23 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, especially in headphones.
12:25 --> 12:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely in headphones.
12:26 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And this becomes the standard of the mid 70s that you want that we can do the detail.
12:31 --> 12:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:31 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's get the detail.
12:32 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
12:33 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So we start having these inflated recording budgets and I've got two more examples of Stevie.
12:38 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: This next one from Sans and the Key of Life, 1976, Sir Duke, they actually recorded both 16 track version and 24 track version.
12:46 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have both of them?
12:47 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I do not, I don't think they released the 16th TV decided to do one of the 24th, so like bigger was better in terms of the clarity.
12:55 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
13:14 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Hot take, see you when there's awesome.
13:16 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Good song.
13:16 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, shout out to our like fourth episode.
13:19 --> 13:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Fifth episode is Stevie Wonder.
13:21 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't you worry about it?
13:22 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll remember now.
13:23 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a million years ago.
13:24 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But I want to play one more tune of his just because there's also the transition than to digital.
13:29 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool.
13:29 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Which I don't really want to get into because it's not necessarily better.
13:33 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just different in some ways it's worse.
13:35 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_00]: In some ways it's better.
13:37 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's certainly cost less now.
13:38 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems less artful.
13:40 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's come back.
13:40 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
13:40 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little
14:09 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_05]: on the corner at the end of the block.
14:13 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_05]: Didn't know you would be down in the due to recall now.
14:18 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Because nobody ever told you that you.
14:21 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, the technology informs the aesthetic of this.
14:25 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
14:25 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, you were saying that we're in this cool generational sweet spot.
14:28 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we grew up with cassettes and then CDs, and then digital and, you know, vinyl,
14:36 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And artists of our generation cohort had to do the same thing and like grow and learn and iterate in a way that maybe current artists don't have to as much the way music is produced.
14:45 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Things still change though.
14:47 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They still change, but you look at how much they mean even just Stevie Wonder as an example, he's iterated so much throughout his musical career.
15:10 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not sure we're getting that with Justin Timberlake, you know?
15:13 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So speaking of the people today, having a different experience.
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:17 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what I, what the focus here is.
15:19 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
15:20 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_00]: This album is thought of as one of the best produced records of all time.
15:24 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: This is, say, Fleetwood Max rumors.
15:26 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we proved it on our episode.
15:27 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We did.
15:28 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_00]: However, I play this for somebody in the younger generation and who had a hot take that I want to share.
15:33 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait.
15:34 --> 15:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And so listeners, this is my son having a conversation with me about this album.
15:40 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_00]: At the end, we're going to hear it in a colds reaction, but folks, this is Mark's eldest child hot take about Fleetwood Mac.
15:48 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You said just before I started recording that you sound like high when you listen back to your voice.
15:53 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like I'm a little kid.
15:55 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want my kid, but like I sound like at least as high as like an eight year old would be.
16:01 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
16:02 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking to me.
16:03 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you're not eight right now.
16:04 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: You are working time.
16:05 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You're 11.
16:06 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're 11 closer to 12 than to 11 at this point.
16:11 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:12 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
16:12 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: When you hear yourself talk, you're hearing it through the resonance of your head, right?
16:17 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So like you're getting all this essentially reverberation happening and it makes you sound really rich and macho, right?
16:25 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_00]: The rest of us don't have that awesome resonance when we hear your voice.
16:28 --> 16:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We just hear your voice.
16:29 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So the microphone, this is a pretty good mic.
16:31 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually catching a little more what you actually sound like.
16:34 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry to say.
16:35 --> 16:52 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I know, but I'm seeing like, when I hear like a younger kid talk to me, it sounds like that higher even like low maybe a little lower so now maybe it's my entire like hearing is it's a perception thing right because of the way your own voice sounds in your head right.
16:52 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_00]: If your little sister heard herself on this, she would think she sounded really high in squeaky.
16:59 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And she probably couldn't keep her thought straight because she would giggle about it.
17:03 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's just, uh, eventually if you're me, you just get used to it.
17:07 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I have to sit and listen to my voice over and over again.
17:10 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, well, I'm doing the editing of this.
17:12 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways.
17:13 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Elvis child son, welcome to the podcast.
17:16 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Nicole does not know that you were going to come on, but here you are.
17:19 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_00]: We just did a Fleetwood Mac episode.
17:22 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have some idea what we're here to talk about.
17:26 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You are the reason for me inviting you on this podcast because you said something, you delivered a hot take a few months ago while we were listening to music.
17:35 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But let me just start.
17:37 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any expertise worth mentioning to the audience?
17:43 --> 18:01 [SPEAKER_00]: about music like is there a reason why you we should consider you an authority i mean i play band i play middle school band i guess you play middle school band that's true what instrument do you play uh... drums drums mostly snare a little bit and you used to play piano yeah you quit piano though why do you want to tell the people why
18:01 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
18:02 --> 18:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
18:03 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_02]: A little practicing also.
18:04 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I also play a lot of sports.
18:05 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you wanted to focus on.
18:06 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll have to have those things that bring you bliss, which is fine.
18:10 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You will hopefully not forget every single thing you learned, but you do have some expertise.
18:15 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about Fleetwood Mac here.
18:16 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You've heard some Fleetwood Mac.
18:18 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
18:18 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember why I started playing Fleetwood Mac when we were driving around town with what provoked it?
18:23 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a band we were listening to.
18:25 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it sounded like that.
18:27 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, this sounds so much like Fleetwood Mac.
18:29 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just listen to rumors, right?
18:31 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: What, do you remember what band?
18:33 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Because of the time, yeah, the podcast audience heard us do a high in episode, like a month or two ago.
18:39 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We listen to not all Fleetwood Mac.
18:41 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't deep dive it like we have other bands.
18:44 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But do you remember what we listen to?
18:46 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Like maybe some greatest hits, rumors and maybe in a problem?
18:50 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we listen to rumors and like some two-hour long grist hits, yeah.
18:57 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: A sandwich, including like the time with all the other lead vocalists and all that.
19:00 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, we listen to rumors and that's what we're going to talk about today.
19:04 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Rumors, how do you spell the word rumors?
19:06 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you M-O-U-R-S?
19:09 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that how you spell the word rumors?
19:11 --> 19:11 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
19:12 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not how you should spell that out.
19:15 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You have a lineage of British people in your family, so I suppose.
19:18 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We would Mac is three Americans in this era.
19:22 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, rumor in Estados, you know, this is just R-U-M-O-R-S, but three fifths of Fleetwood Mac in 1977 were British.
19:32 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess they went with the... Yeah, I don't, I don't, I've like right with the word rumor.
19:38 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I don't really know.
19:39 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_02]: That's the first one I saw was.
19:40 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You spread rumors?
19:42 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_00]: No, okay.
19:44 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, thanks.
19:45 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for coming on the pod.
19:47 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Always nice to have a guest with some expertise I mean really what's your expertise the reason you're here is you are Jan Alpha and you represent a different set of ears that do you know what my generation is?
19:58 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what they call me?
19:59 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do remember like
20:02 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why I'm blinking right now.
20:03 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Hold it.
20:04 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sort of in between two.
20:06 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I know.
20:06 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, one of your uncles is very solidly in the generation above me.
20:11 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But like, my cousin, you know, with the twins, she's very solidly in the generation below and kind of right in the middle.
20:16 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember what they're called?
20:18 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
20:18 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, M something.
20:20 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:20 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I am an old millennial.
20:22 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
20:22 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: millennial.
20:23 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
20:23 --> 20:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But Jen, why?
20:24 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_00]: See your gen Alpha.
20:25 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can keep track of Jen, why?
20:26 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So then who's above?
20:28 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_02]: You?
20:28 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Your uncle and me kind of are also.
20:31 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Gen X generation X is like right.
20:35 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I was born and they ended gen X is like the mode.
20:39 --> 21:01 [SPEAKER_02]: It's become like oh gen X has become like a word Like it just like feels a gen X not like generation X Yeah, yeah, but people say gen alpha and gen millennia Well, they don't want to see them alone, but like gen X feels like it's like one word like d and e X as opposed to gender Like separate gen gen alpha feels separate to you
21:01 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:02 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gen Z, of course, don't forget them.
21:03 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So you represent two at least generations lower than me.
21:06 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you have a different ear, because this actually, these folks that were in this band, they're not even Gen X.
21:12 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_00]: They're like your grandma and grandpa, baby boomers, right?
21:16 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking multi-generation, and you've got a hot take.
21:19 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for coming to share it.
21:21 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say, I'm not saying your name on the podcast.
21:24 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_00]: That way, you have plausible deniability.
21:27 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know that term?
21:28 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I can assume I'm not having such a chance.
21:30 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're the look out, oh remember in Hamilton spoiler for people who haven't listened to Hamilton and they have the dual.
21:37 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_02]: The doctor turns around.
21:40 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was just a doctor, but in my people, so they can pretend, well, I don't know, I don't see it.
21:48 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So if this turns out to be a big fiasco and it's the least cool thing ever.
21:53 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_00]: If one of your friends have a friend, if they find out,
21:56 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Whoa, dude, were you on that?
21:58 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Were you on your dad's podcast?
21:59 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You can be like, that wasn't me, bro.
22:01 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you listen to that voice?
22:02 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_00]: That voice was all high in squeaky.
22:03 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That was not me.
22:04 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But if this thing blows up, and it becomes like, really hot on TikTok, you can take credit for it.
22:09 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But you have problems with it.
22:10 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to be credit for anything.
22:12 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Just quietly take the money and note the money notes.
22:15 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Take the money, yeah, right.
22:17 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, you're literally over my cold head hands.
22:20 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, you will get the money, but it will be over my actual dead body split with your sister.
22:26 --> 22:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so do you like Fleetwood Mac?
22:28 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'm not not.
22:31 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't love it.
22:32 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't love it.
22:33 --> 22:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's fine, but it's a little.
22:36 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_00]: If I had to put words in your mouth, would you say that it's it's good, but kind of like lame.
22:40 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I wouldn't even describe it like that.
22:42 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
22:43 --> 22:44 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just some parts are fine.
22:44 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It is lame.
22:45 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_02]: That's not entirely white, I don't like it.
22:48 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes lame is okay, right?
22:49 --> 22:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you're saying?
22:50 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and also there's also just parts I don't like.
22:53 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're still a little unsettled on like soft rock.
22:58 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:58 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You like a little bit more of an edge to something.
23:00 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely.
23:02 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, before my eyes, you've like changed a bit of your musical taste.
23:06 --> 23:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not going to ask you to just spell it out because I know that's going to cause you a bunch of emotional distress to put it on record because you'll look back.
23:14 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_00]: if you listen to this three months from now and you be like, oh my god, I can't believe I said that.
23:17 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So I won't even ask you, but okay, what are we doing here?
23:20 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about rumors, a little background information.
23:23 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_00]: This is like the millionth album of Fleetwood Mac.
23:26 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like their 10th album or something and they, they went through multiple lead singers, stuff like that, like totally changed their sound, added some Americans, much to the delight of American pop radio audiences.
23:38 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I suppose.
23:40 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:41 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And this album is held up as one of the best albums of all time, certainly in rock history.
23:47 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I've probably told you that when I heard you make this the hot take that you're about to make in the backseat of my Honda people talk about this album being really good musically but also very notably especially for this conversation the recording of it is really good.
24:03 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So you already know where I'm going with this because if you're hot take so what I'm going to do we're going to just give you quick samples of this album we're going to go as far as as we need to quick samples and I want you to tell me whether the song you're hearing sounds good.
24:20 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying you like the song.
24:22 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm making sure the mixing the production like the sound because this record is not only classic in terms of the songwriting and the performance, but a classic in terms of the production and the way it was recorded.
24:34 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So track one on rumors is second hand news.
24:44 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I know, then nothing to do We can't go back We can't get enough Won't you lay me down in the door Pass me, let me do my stuff Dude, what do you think?
24:58 --> 24:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty good.
24:59 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I think there is a little bit of something going on that could have been done a little better I don't know if that's the good.
25:05 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_02]: That's that's how it's your engineer.
25:06 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like they get I don't know if it's whether the guitar is a singing ratio But it's something like that and I don't know.
25:14 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like it's missing something there.
25:15 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Missing something, but yeah, it sounds like it's clear Good sounds pretty good.
25:19 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so so is it like a bee recording and mixing?
25:23 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, BB plus okay, all right.
25:26 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_00]: How about
25:28 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: track two dreams, which last week the audience heard us do an episode about this song.
25:36 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Big hit of theirs.
25:59 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think?
26:00 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Like a plus, that one is very good.
26:02 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember when we were losing someone, I'm like, okay, that actually does sound very good.
26:06 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_02]: That was very well-liked on it.
26:08 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good.
26:09 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got cool layers.
26:10 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got the vocal sound good.
26:12 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right.
26:13 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Stevie Nix's voice I know is not maybe your favorite, but it sounds good.
26:15 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
26:16 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cool.
26:18 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So far so good, so far it's like an A-line as hellbum.
26:21 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
26:22 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Track three, never going back again.
26:27 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_05]: I've been down one time I've been down two times I've never gone back again What do you think?
26:49 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, actually there would be applause I feel like you're one thing You need more great inflation, I think Oh my gosh, it's like the best song ever in my feel like
26:57 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know if this is on purpose or not, but I could feel like going like, I'll put down was volume in a kind of weird way.
27:04 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
27:05 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't really, yeah, but that seems pretty fine.
27:09 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I don't know if you short clips, so I can't tell much, but... Sure, yeah, yeah, well noted.
27:13 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a song that I put on record again.
27:15 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I really want to learn how to play it.
27:17 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how I've never learned that on guitar.
27:19 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Every time I hear it, I go, oh, why haven't I learned it?
27:21 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, all these years later, still haven't.
27:23 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, track four, don't stop.
27:27 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_05]: Look at the day, you see things in a different way, don't stop thinking about tomorrow, don't stop, it'll see me here.
27:50 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's pretty good actually, I won't say E-Maya, maybe.
27:57 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you think of the two singers?
28:00 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: The interplay between the two singers?
28:02 --> 28:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's fine.
28:03 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't tell that much of a difference.
28:04 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that wild?
28:05 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of.
28:06 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_00]: In this particular song, Lindsey Buckingham and Christine McVee trading off almost sounds like their one person.
28:13 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, it just sounds like Lindsey Buckingham.
28:15 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't see him here.
28:16 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_00]: The second thing.
28:17 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But listen, the second and fourth line, thinking about tomorrow and it'll soon be here are Christine.
28:24 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't stop is Lindsey.
28:30 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, don't stop, it'll see me here.
28:35 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Can tell a little bit more now that I'm focusing on this.
28:37 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_00]: They're so similar, huh?
28:38 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird.
28:39 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how they did that because they don't really sound anything like each other normally.
28:44 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And then later in the song bay, they all sing together.
28:46 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, okay, moving on.
28:47 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_00]: We got a lot of album to get through.
28:48 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So, actually spoiler, we're only gonna do one more.
28:51 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Go your own way, track five.
28:53 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: How does this sound?
28:54 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: This is just, we'll just play the first part of the song.
28:57 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_04]: How can I ever change things that I feel if I could baby how to give you my world?
29:11 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_04]: How can I, when you won't take it from me?
29:17 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_02]: So far, BB Plus, I think sounds fine.
29:21 --> 29:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the drums could be a little louder other than that.
29:24 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Fine.
29:25 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
29:26 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So picky.
29:27 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I think what's an A, what's an A plus?
29:29 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, should I play the chorus?
29:30 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:31 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to share your hot take.
29:32 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, here we go.
29:49 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_06]: What do you got?
29:57 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Grade.
29:58 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Grade.
29:59 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_02]: See minus.
30:00 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
30:00 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_00]: See minus.
30:01 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
30:01 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_00]: See minus.
30:02 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_00]: So my college doesn't give see minuses.
30:04 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So which which is actually as the chair of the academic affairs committee.
30:08 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not happy about that because it makes them complicated.
30:10 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So okay.
30:11 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not rounding up that was what what I was going to ask.
30:13 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not rounding up to see you are rounding down.
30:15 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So you could still graduate with this album having one D. So it's not an F but it's not passing really not not a
30:26 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't transfer that credit either.
30:28 --> 30:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
30:29 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Your hot take is, if I can make it clear, you think the song sounds bad.
30:34 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Do think the song is written well and like, is that do like the song as a song or what?
30:40 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a many different questions.
30:42 --> 30:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Do we like the song as song?
30:44 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Decent.
30:44 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it's pretty good, whatever.
30:47 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it written well?
30:49 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I can't exactly tell, though, like I don't have a fair opinion on that,
30:56 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_02]: but yeah recording wise it sounds like it's recording like a bathroom it's at least a chorus and not in a cool way like the finger snaps on thriller i think they record those in a bathroom and then it sounds awesome okay sounds bad yeah and like she sounds like she's like
31:15 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_02]: dying on the death day we think it's she okay.
31:18 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So the lead the lead singer is Lindsey Buckingham or you talking about like one of the harmony parts or you talk about Lindsey Buckingham the lead vocalist the arm okay so the vocals so the vocals sounds sound good to you is what you're saying I'll just play just a couple seconds of it
31:40 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So the shouting go your own way.
31:42 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a guy, but there's the backup vocalist, Stevie and Christina are holding.
31:47 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_00]: What sounds bad?
31:48 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, with them, I don't know, it feels like they're just like wobbling, I don't know what it's playing It doesn't also linty fucking him, he needs a cough drop So, okay, so it's kind of also the performance, it's not just just the recording glory Even just, but also it sounds just like even like the guitars and like drums and bass and whatever keyboards It all just sounds like it's like being muffled
32:15 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting because he's pretty rigged the microphone.
32:19 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, not even in a cool way like the strokes you don't know You don't know the strokes, but like the busted up microphone sound everything sounds all go messed up because of the microphone But we heard and never going back again.
32:30 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We heard like shouting Lindsey Buckham or whatever the words are and it sounds cool, but here it doesn't he needs a cough drop and it sounds muffled I think let's listen again.
32:41 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I think muffled is interesting
32:52 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I also feel like when he starts singing like yelling, they like turn off the instruments.
33:00 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting because let me play for you.
33:02 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I pulled up just the instrumental of this section.
33:20 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that actually proves my point more that it's not, they're actually taking a rest when he's singing.
33:26 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_02]: They are changing the like mix in a way to make you hear his voice and then his voice doesn't sound amazing.
33:34 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So it amplifies that when the instrument's actually sounds cool.
33:37 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So what I just played there, did that sound good?
33:39 --> 33:40 [SPEAKER_02]: That sound perfectly fine.
33:41 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so it's when the vocals and the instruments are there.
33:49 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the mix, right?
33:51 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Not the way it's recorded.
33:52 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the mix.
33:53 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_02]: The recording thing though, I think it's just like the way they made his voice sound like.
33:59 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, like they could've pulled out some more like cool things about his voice and that song that they did.
34:05 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That was actually like.
34:07 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_00]: the solo tracks of the instruments together.
34:10 --> 34:32 [SPEAKER_06]: This is pulled out by AI, as far as I can tell, I was not able to find an actual stem from the recording of the vocals, but this is AI pull out vocals, so they're going to sound a little weird, but this is the vocals alone.
34:32 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_00]: standing by what you're saying.
34:34 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So it sounds way worse even than that.
34:37 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Good.
34:38 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Like different kinds of cover up.
34:40 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, so it's a combination of the way the vocals were recorded, but then the way they are combined with the instruments.
34:47 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_00]: On one of the biggest singles on one of the most universally respected recordings of all time, right?
34:54 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, let me put one thing out, not to add fuel to the fire here, but listen to the symbols, the hi-hat, and the tambourine,
35:08 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_00]: thoughts on that loose loud.
35:11 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the one thing that jumps out to me also.
35:13 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm definitely with you that the tambourines and the symbols, the shakers all that the clicky clicks are a little too loud, which makes the vocals then maybe seem muffled because in comparison, the vocals aren't bright enough.
35:25 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_00]: The drums kind of take over.
35:35 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_00]: But not the kick in the snare, the heartbeat of the drum set, the clicky, clicky stuff.
35:39 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So any other hot take on a beloved top 20 records of all time entry?
35:45 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
35:46 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, no, really, maybe one last thing would be like, I don't think really how to say this.
35:54 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_02]: But like, why are you singing?
35:56 --> 35:57 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just like,
35:58 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_02]: they couldn't like change his voice to cut out, we're not, we're not cut out, but like like I've seen earlier they could have brought better things out of his voice than they did.
36:09 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: in the mixing process or like in performance.
36:12 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, coach them to do something different, or just use equalizers, or something to pull different frequencies out.
36:18 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
36:18 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you might be right about that.
36:20 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have to put it on some kind of a plugin to see exactly what the spectrum is in there, but it sounds like there might be some frequencies that are a little too loud relative to his voice.
36:30 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you're hearing the croaky, high vibrato, part of his voice.
36:36 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Who is this kid?
36:39 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, Kim, Kailat, or Harvey pronounced it.
36:42 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Mixer of this record.
36:43 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Do better.
36:44 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Do better.
36:45 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_00]: The gen Alpha has spoken.
36:47 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
36:48 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_00]: How was this?
36:49 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_00]: How awkward?
36:49 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Two-weird?
36:50 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Fun?
36:51 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
36:51 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So the dream, no, Fleetwood Mac pun intended, is that you would sit down with Nicole's kid, and we'd leave the room, and you guys would record something.
37:01 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you or are you willing to think about that?
37:04 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you guys haven't hung out since you were like preschoolers or or young elementary But are we are we gonna be able to have a gen Alpha episode one day?
37:12 --> 37:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe okay, I'm not just straight off like that straight up.
37:16 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You got a warm-up.
37:17 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to become a professional podcast at first
37:36 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, my first thought is like I always knew your kids be a pretty impressive kid, but that's like an impressive kid for sure And I was joking like who is this kid?
37:44 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But of course, it's your child.
37:46 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So they have like a vocabulary for this type of work that like my 11 year old does not I think my 11 year old has vocabulary around like Social emotional psychological stuff Because I think the two of them together
38:02 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Would like kind of mirror I think that they would.
38:07 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We can dream.
38:08 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that they would be too awkward.
38:09 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I pitched it to my kid.
38:11 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_01]: She was like, I don't know.
38:12 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I haven't seen Mark's kid for years and years and we so weird mom and he's so weird.
38:17 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So awful and awkward, but she was interested in the idea of it.
38:21 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe like we said work up to it and you didn't know what we had talked about that you didn't know I was going to drop this on you today.
38:27 --> 38:30 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I knew that it was like kind of coming and I was excited for it.
38:30 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, um, this could get a great ear and some really great feedback and also like how dare you.
38:37 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's right.
38:38 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why we're doing it is he right does go your own way sound bad.
38:42 --> 38:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not my favorite Fleetwood Max song, but I don't think it sounds bad.
38:46 --> 38:54 [SPEAKER_00]: On Apple, that's like, look, he's, we got to keep him away from a college class because he's, he's a tough grader, like, your organic chemistry professionally, who's supposed to weed you out.
38:55 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_00]: He's given a minus and stuff to songs that are amazing, but I feel like he maybe has a point on this one song.
39:01 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the crazy thing.
39:02 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_00]: When he said that about this, we heard this song in the car, and he's like,
39:07 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_00]: had a song sound bad when we got to the chorus and I'm kind of like, I love the song, but I love the song.
39:12 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
39:12 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's why I like it because it has that great.
39:15 --> 39:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a grit that other songs don't on this album.
39:17 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly.
39:18 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
39:19 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_00]: This album doesn't have that.
39:20 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And look, you're talking to a guy who will listen to like 80s punk that sounds like anything like pretty like that.
39:25 --> 39:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But it does weirdly stick out.
39:27 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah.
39:28 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And that whether that's a flower or not is.
39:30 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think it's a fly.
39:31 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that like,
39:33 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, Jan Elfa.
39:35 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that you've been conditioned to very sterile music and music that doesn't hold a lot of grit and dissonance to it.
39:42 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that dissonance, especially in the song and how it does stand out for the rest of the album is what makes it so good, is that you're getting like actual personality of the singer in the song.
39:53 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And this maybe does relate to the conversation we can't have right now about digital versus analog to that that's related here.
40:00 --> 40:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that isn't like cleaned up.
40:03 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's raw and gritty and it has that tone to it that makes you feel like you're in a different time in place.
40:10 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that the transport of quality of music is evident here.
40:14 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that, sorry, our kids generation is getting packaged two minute, really.
40:20 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_01]: polished, highly produced music that is right.
40:24 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like not to get artifact to like the 1970s like of course it's not a fact to hear now but I think they're I'd just service when they listen to music that they can't really appreciate the grit of certain performers like Lindsay Buckingham.
40:39 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But he liked
40:40 --> 40:41 [SPEAKER_00]: the other stuff.
40:41 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He likes other olds.
40:43 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not a kid.
40:44 --> 40:46 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't like it because it's old.
40:46 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's heard like Beach Boys and stuff like that and he likes even the rough stuff of that.
40:51 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Like at least I think he likes it.
40:53 --> 40:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe maybe he has hot tears there.
40:55 --> 40:56 [SPEAKER_00]: But but.
40:56 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's correct in his evaluation of the sonic qualities of that moment of the song, but is his interpretation of those moments as a negative correct?
41:06 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Is, I think, and I'm wondering if he's ever seen images of Lindsey Buckingham just see what he looks like.
41:13 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I would never even think that that would be related.
41:15 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Why?
41:15 --> 41:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Because like, he looks like a creep.
41:19 --> 41:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, wait, that's, that's the hot take.
41:23 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He looks like a creep, I don't know.
41:25 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, but I think that I see him and like maybe he doesn't like what he allegedly did to see me next and he doesn't.
41:34 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
41:34 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Like him for that reason.
41:35 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the biases he has like implicit biases.
41:39 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_01]: towards Lindsey Buckingham from what he knows about my question, he suddenly hasn't seen him.
41:45 --> 41:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that like in those rolling stone articles saying this is the best album?
41:49 --> 41:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it also universal that Lindsey Buckingham looked like a creep in the 70s?
41:53 --> 41:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
41:53 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of white men, I mean it goes back to, I don't know if he had a ponytail, but he seems long here.
41:59 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to cut off the ponytail.
42:01 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He's one of those guys.
42:02 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_00]: He is one of those hippies.
42:02 --> 42:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to like cut off the ponytail.
42:04 --> 42:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Dude, shout out to the
42:07 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So the, I think Kylie Minogue, I think this is a thought, some of the computational.com, oh my gosh.
42:13 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that our perception, myers, like how we, without a can't be the right word, but like, yeah, like masses up, we interpret music, like what we know about the people sing the music.
42:25 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
42:26 --> 42:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if your kid has that sort of cultural context.
42:29 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely not.
42:30 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You never know.
42:31 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't even really have cultural thoughts.
42:32 --> 42:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, maybe they're up there with an unlocked iPad, Google and pictures of Fleetwood Mac.
42:37 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_00]: If that's what's happening.
42:38 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We should be.
42:39 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like me.
42:45 --> 42:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and me, Mark Popping.
42:49 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I also produce.
42:51 --> 42:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Please leave us a rating and a review and don't forget to follow.
42:55 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_00]: We're never music pot on social media.
42:57 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can also send us an email at nevermusicpot at gmail.com.
43:02 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is part of the lore hounds network.
43:05 --> 43:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Join the conversation by going to the lorehounds.com and hop on our Discord server.
43:11 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.