#72 - She's Having a Baby

[00:00:19] Welcome to Properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other pulp fiction. Today we take a look at the John Hughes dramedy, She's Having a Baby. Starring Kevin Bacon and a wildly disinterested Elizabeth McGovern, this film follows the life of a young couple from their wedding to having their first child and nothing in between. Also, Alec Baldwin is in it and unfortunately doesn't kill anyone.

[00:00:45] With me to discuss this film, as always, is Dr. Anthony Ladon. Ugh, McGovern. McGovern, maybe in 1988 no one more attractive than this woman. Just totally doesn't care about Bacon. No, and in fact it feels like she was like, every time that John Hughes must have said action, she was like, I was in the middle of reading. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[00:01:14] Steve, we embark on the bacon wrap season of Properly Howard. Here we go. And I feel like... At least two people have been really anticipating this. A couple people I know have expressed some excitement for it and I kind of have been trying to temper it. Ha ha ha ha. Well... You know we're the only ones who can really do any promotion for this. Ha ha ha ha. It's a bacon season.

[00:01:43] Sure. And yet... How much bacon is there really? You know? It's just a bacon wrap. See? You got a bit of bacon at the beginning. Maybe like a bacon bit in the middle. Yeah, there's a bacon bit. Yeah. And then, you know, of course we wrap with bacon. But I think people are tuning in because they're excited about us talking about bacon. There's a lot of not bacon in this season. Well, sure.

[00:02:11] But there's more bacon in this season than we've ever had. Yeah. It's beyond bacon. It's the quest for bacon. Okay. So before we jump into... She's having a baby. I want to call attention to the fact that you've been doing the work. You've been out in the world living the life of bacon in preparation for this season. Ha ha ha. And taking one for the team.

[00:02:36] So I just want to give you a little bit of space to talk about your bacon related injury. Ah, yeah. Yeah. So big flick energy, as we've talked about on this podcast, is where you're like a mystery science theater type, you know, live roast of a film. And a couple of us were hired for a pilot run in Campbell, California at a movie theater. And we did one show that we did was Footloose.

[00:03:05] So you sit, you watch Footloose, but you and a friend have a microphone, and you talk over Footloose. Yep. Both in appreciation of the brilliance of the film, I would imagine, but also mostly to find the punchlines. For sure. And then during the scene where he's really upset and he goes into like the old, like, barn or mill or whatever and starts dancing. I like to dance along with it.

[00:03:35] I think it's a good little sort of like when that. Now, do you mimic the dance or do you just interpret the dance? Yeah, that's the intent. I try to mimic it, but there are certain things I can't do because I don't have, you know, uneven bars to jump onto. And I don't want to throw a bottle. So at one point I got up and then I landed because gravity. And then I heard a very loud pop throughout my whole body. And I'd only heard that once before.

[00:04:04] And that was when I tore calf muscles. Sure enough, I tore my right calf muscle. Your calf muscle shouted at you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I made my way back to my seat rather abruptly. Now, I want to live in this moment for a minute. So how many people are in the room for this? Uh, this one is like close to 50. Okay. So 50 people, are they enjoying you doing bacon?

[00:04:31] After it all was said and done and my buddy was like, man, I can't believe you tore your calf muscle. I said, well, it was worth it because I think at one point during the dance I heard one person go, huh. As if that's a choice. No. Yeah. Die doing what people tolerate.

[00:05:01] Mildly amused but more curious. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't even know that that one person spoke for the audience. Okay. Um, that's great. You were really sort of getting in the mood for this season of bacon rap. Uh, there was an injury involved. Meaning that the, I guess the bit didn't go exactly how you expected. I'm wondering if that's. It didn't end the way.

[00:05:31] I think that that's foreshadowing of this, this particular property Howard season. Okay. So you think people, you think people will be mildly amused and, uh, but we won't stick the landing. There'll be a lot of, huh? Yeah. I think you're right. I think there's a lot of movies in here that are, it's an interesting bag of movies, right? I mean, it's a very, um, of all of the seasons we've done. I am most looking forward to this season for sure. Cause there's a lot of movies you really like, but it's not.

[00:06:00] I mean, some of these movies are certainly bacon adjacent. Some of these movies are like, shouldn't we watch P.T. Anderson's worst film? Because it's our favorite, you know, that, that's kind of it. Well. Yeah.

[00:06:15] I mean, there's, I mean, I, I think I, I, I think our, our fan base, um, 12 and, and, um, shrinking are, uh, like, I think they like when we do some deep dives into stuff that's maybe not necessarily, um, hero at large. Uh, I can't, cause I mean, I can't imagine that Dan would have want to hear a whole season of that type of film. So I think it's good that we've reviewed some other things. So it's a, I feel like we've got a nice, uh, it's a, it's a, it's a nice swath.

[00:06:43] I think of like what I consider high end films, uh, some low end films. And then I think some nice in-betweens and stuff that like, I think each of us will be able to alternate geeking out on, which I think is probably good. I hope. So, so my history with Footloose, since, you know, I feel like, uh, we should wrap up our Footloose conversation. Um, my history with Footloose also involves you performing. Oh yeah.

[00:07:12] And you can kind of fill in the blanks here because I, my memory is not perfect, but in my early twenties, I, you know, barely out of high school, I worked at, with a nonprofit, uh, agency called Campus Life. Where we put on youth events for high schoolers. And one of the events that we were putting on was an eighties party. Now I'd never even heard of an eighties party before because we weren't really that far from the eighties.

[00:07:41] Uh, right. But there was a lot, it was pretty typical if you wanted to do like a costume event to do a seventies themed disco party. Right. We'd already done one of those. And so the suggestion was how about an eighties event? And we decided to call it an eighties party. And because I worked for the place, I volunteered you to DJ. Right.

[00:08:10] So I didn't know whether you'd be a good at the art of DJ work, but what I was confident in is that you could certainly put on an eighties party. You and I spent a lot of time, hours upon hours compiling sort of the definitive eighties party dance list. Oh yeah. Lots and lots. Um, yeah.

[00:08:38] And, uh, lots and lots of time put into this. And then, uh, one of the things that we did once we came up with the list was we had to get all of the volunteer workers together and the student leaders together, which we did. We got, we gathered them in a room and we showed them the, one of the, you know, major dance sequences from Footloose.

[00:09:04] And we told them, yeah, we told them that this, this was sort of the spirit of the event. And we wanted them to embody. Yeah. It was, it was, it was their prom. That was the, the final prom scene. And we said, this is, I want it. We wanted it decorated this way and we wanted the energy from all of them. I told them I wanted them to embody the spirit of bacon. And yeah, uh, they, they were up to the task.

[00:09:30] I mean, it really did set the tone for the events. Now, in keeping with our, uh, uh, one of our other themes for this season, at one point during the dance and you know, there were probably 200 people that showed up at one point during the dance. And then, uh, one of the students was trying to do the centipede. Yeah.

[00:09:53] And he, uh, busted his tooth and then he sued, then he sued my employer because he damaged his own mouth dancing. Yeah. I recall they came up to us and they said, um, Hey, he just knocked his teeth out. Can you stop playing music? So we can, uh, so we can find the tooth and keep in mind, there's like glitter and confetti everywhere.

[00:10:20] And, uh, and so I stopped everything and I said, all right, Hey, we're going to take a quick break here. Uh, we've had a bit of an injury. So if you could all help us find the teeth and, uh, everyone stops. And I remember, uh, the, the assistant or whatever comes running up like, Oh, he didn't want to make a big scene about it. And I said, well, this would qualify. So I don't know if we found the tooth. I knew that I know. Well, somebody did like after they already sent him to emergency dentist. Cause I said, you might not want to just like stick around like towards the end of the show.

[00:10:50] Someone walks up to me and goes, I found the tooth. Oh, I didn't know this part. And I was like, yeah, I I'm all that's yours. I do know that after, um, that very long and awkward look for the tooth, we had a CD set to the side just in case there was a lull that had eye of the tiger on it. And what we did was we use that song to get everyone hyped up again. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:20] Anyway. So, um, uh, bacon's footloose has, uh, inspired us at many different seasons of our lives. Usually it does result in an injury of some kind. Apparently. Yeah. Anyway, look for, you can look forward to that going forward this season. Just for you listeners. Okay. Steve, uh, she's having a baby. I've never seen this before. What is your history with this film? I think I'd seen it once and that's it.

[00:11:45] I barely could recall, um, viewing it again that I had ever seen it. So I'd never seen this. One of the reasons why I picked it. Uh, you know, I wanted, I wanted us to start out strong with a, a bacon centric film. That's, this is definitely a bacon centric film. Uh, John Hughes, how can you go wrong with John Hughes? And it'd be fun to see a movie that I've never seen before.

[00:12:13] And I'm, I gotta say, it's kind of a, kind of an odd movie. Say more. Have you ever played the board game life? Yeah. This is the equivalent of the board game life. Yeah. It's not fun. I mean, it can be fun with the, with the life playing life is only fun when you spin the wheel.

[00:12:43] It's like you're playing life. There's no part of life. That's fun. Like the game life is you, you spin the wheel. Uh, you might have twins and then it's like, okay, that's now this is part of my life. Did you know that the original board game of life had a suicide square you could land on? I was kind of hoping for that in this movie. Oh, I didn't hate, I didn't hate this movie.

[00:13:11] I, and I don't hate necessarily playing life either, but it's like maybe once every 20 years, you should play a life with like a 10 year old just to, you know, give them the experience of, of a kind of a anti foreshadowing. Uh, anyway, I almost felt like this was a little bit like playing life and, um, it's not something I enjoy. I don't enjoy the, the, the board game of life.

[00:13:40] I can't say that I didn't enjoy parts of this film, but as, as far as John Hughes films go, this is not, this is not what you would show someone if you were going to say, Hey, let me, let me, let me show you what John Hughes was all about. So I, I, I think we'll need to have a, I think it's important. We have a John Hughes conversation, uh, cause depending on our listenership, um, there's

[00:14:10] going to be differing opinions on John Hughes. Like John Hughes gets an interesting pass from Gen X. Um, even the progressive Gen Xers just because there's this sense of like, yeah, but it was our time and it was a reflection of, and, and these are classics and blah, blah, blah, blah, but if you really look at John Hughes films, um, they're, they're, they're problematic in

[00:14:32] many different, um, ways, whether it's sure misogyny or racism or the homophobia, the, uh, nature, all those things. Right. So it's like, so even just saying that is like, so I mean, if you, once you get past those three hurdles, what a great film, you know, so it's like, he was kind of a weird guy himself, but here's my take on John Hughes is that he's not kind of reflecting

[00:14:59] culture. He's projecting his own culture. It's like, he, he's not giving you an accurate representation of what the eighties were like for people that particular age. What he's doing is he's kind of projecting almost a baby boomer imaginative world upon the Gen X youth. So I don't, I think that there are several John Hughes

[00:15:26] movies where you look at and you're like, well, yeah, that, that was the eighties kind of in the imaginary world of John Hughes. And it might have influenced the way that we, you know, kind of tried to live our lives. That's possible. And that's, and that's possible. Right. So that's the thing is like, there's, that's where, you know, what kind of responsibilities do we take as, as viewers?

[00:15:48] And on and on and on and on. Um, it's obviously I, I, like, I, I don't like this movie. Um, and I think there's a couple of reasons there's, there's two separate reasons why I don't like this movie. I think, um, I think as a movie, it's not very good. Uh, I think it's a, it's a little bit, um, like I was thinking, this is like, you took all the side characters of Ferris

[00:16:16] Bueller's day off and you just kind of give little vignettes about like what's going on in that guy's life. Right. And there's actually, there's actually actors that you would find in Ferris Bueller's day off in this movie. Yeah. And I thought that, but I, and then the other reason why I don't like it is because I'm like, Oh, this was actually a really, this could have been something, especially in the John Hughes trajectory, whatever is this idea that like, okay, well, we've got this

[00:16:44] thing going, uh, with all these teenagers and high school and then blah, blah. And so now it's like, well, okay, my audience is growing up and they're having to face some of these things. We've always just sort of left it off at the potential of graduation. So now we have this opportunity to talk about like what happens when you get married young and, and like, you know, it's sort of like, this is the ever after that, that was sort of just promised in like the Ferris Bueller's and,

[00:17:13] Yeah. At the end of Ferris Bueller, he's decided to marry his girlfriend and it's almost like we're seeing, all right, fast forward nine months. Right. Right. What would it look like on Ferris Bueller's wedding day? Right. So, so I think, so there's, there was this opportunity to then explore these characters, which is interesting because that's what like breakfast club, right? It's a character, uh, uh, exploration. Like that's really, you divide it up sort of,

[00:17:42] you know, the whole concept is like, Oh boy, you've already, these are the labels you've given us. And this is how we behave because, you know, maybe it's because you've labeled us, we follow these things and all. Anyway. So you have this, like he really enjoys kind of exploring those types of things that here, he just doesn't do any of that. Like there's, I feel like I know less about these two characters, the more I interact with them. And you could have made a commentary, right? Like, I mean, it could have been like, okay, well look, they, they, they were high school sweethearts and

[00:18:11] here they are, they're getting married and they're just following sort of what they're supposed to do. And then the pitfalls that go along with it. But then at the end of the story, it's like, yeah, you just, that's just it. You just have a baby and everything will be fine. Okay. I think that, I think you're probably 99% right. Let me just throw a tiny 1% caveat on this. If you think about Ferris Bueller at the end of the day, he's all charisma. Like, I don't know if I'm

[00:18:39] actually reaching into his psyche to like actually learn something about it. I don't know if he learns anything by the end of the film. He's a monster. I think, I think we learn a lot more about Cameron. I think Cameron's arc is much more interesting, right? So I wouldn't say that Bacon lacks the charisma. I just don't know how much he changes. And I think that I'm supposed to believe that he changes

[00:19:06] when he's sort of at the hospital. Like he has a moment where he realizes, like, I actually do care about my wife and my, uh, my, my newborn son. But I don't know if it's earned. I don't know if I've seen the progress. I think it's supposed to be like a cataclysmic event that eventually changes you. Which maybe that's what parenthood is. But it feels like a mountaintop high though, right?

[00:19:34] Right. That's not sustainable. But maybe John Hughes doesn't really do that. Maybe John Hughes kind of like, I'm going to show you a tiny window into a particular person's world. I'm going to find kind of the absurdity in it and put that person, you know, up against someone else who's kind of absurd in a different way. And antics will ensue. I'm not sure that John... Antics ensued?

[00:20:01] I mean, you can't tell me that, uh, lawnmower dancing isn't fun. Well, but like, okay. But that's the thing, right? Like that would have been fun if that like happened. I mean, it's all like, it's in his imagination, right? Yeah. It's just kind of his thought world, you know? Sure. In the same way that every now and again, we'd see like Molly Ringwald's thought world and fixing candles. Yeah. And that's all fine. Um, I think that there's lots of opportunity for that, but if the most

[00:20:29] interesting parts of the movie, or at least the most amusing parts of the movie are antics that never actually happened, then it's really hard to give a rip if he has a moment. Because like his montage of memories, I'd like to see that movie because those people seem to actually like each other. And I'm not sure I ever saw these two people like each other in the entirety of their relationship. There was a chemistry problem for sure. Well, for sure a chemistry problem, but then like the scenes that they chose to focus in

[00:20:59] on, it was, and it's fine, show the hard parts. That's super, super important, but then don't then just flip a switch at the end and say, well, now he's remembering all the good parts. Cause here's, here's, here's the thing, uh, that I think is one of the biggest flaws of that particular sequence. If you're sitting there and you're in your mid twenties and your, uh, wife who you've kind of had this sort of like, it just, you've been just struggling to sort of figure out where you guys are at both individually and as a couple.

[00:21:26] And then in terms of, you know, what, what life are you trying to live? Um, and that's a theme that that's in there, but it's like never really fully wrestled with unless they do it like in an absurd way with like the worst best friend in the history of best friends. Um, but so he has all these flashbacks to how great their life had or all these great moments that we never saw. Right. We never saw them enjoy each other really. And everything was just like a

[00:21:53] discipline, which is, you know, okay. I get, that's a movie that I think is interesting, but they didn't really grab it. It just sort of happened. I think it's more interesting if he's having these flashbacks and he's looking back on these wonderful moments, but then also looking back on those knock down, drag out fights and seeing the face of the woman that he was actually kind of half interested in, or maybe considering stepping out of his marriage with, because that's the complication that would be going through your head when you're like, Oh my gosh, these are the,

[00:22:21] like, I have all these great moments that, that, that may hit maybe go away and they may just be memories, but also I'm saddled with the unresolved issues that I didn't deal with. But instead it was just like, Nope, he's worried for the first time about his wife. It seems he's excited about their marriage for the first time because she might die. And then they have a baby and he finishes a book, uh, which is apparently the lousy screenplay for this movie. And, and then everything's fine.

[00:22:50] So I, and I just, I think that this movie tried of all John who's movies. I feel like this movie is an attempt to have the most heart. And I think it has the least heart. I get, I agree. I, it's feels very like, like, again, it just, it feels like it's turning on heart switches like this, like just, just cliches will get us out of this. And it's like, well, you make, you actually made a complicated story, but you, you didn't stay in it. Like he didn't,

[00:23:19] it felt like he was in over his head with maybe the, the, the message he was trying to send. So the end, he ends up undercutting it. Cause I, one hand, I kind of thought, Oh, this is going to be a critique of, of this generation. That's just sort of, uh, kind of copy and pasting from their parents' generation, which is, you know, you get a job, you get a house, you have a kid and then, you know, move on, move on. And I'm like, Oh, this is going to be a, an attempt at a deconstruction of that. But then it solves everything with a baby, which is exactly what

[00:23:48] they were trying to get at. Like all, like, that's the thing you, I thought they were trying to critique. And then at the end, it's like, no, so you just have a baby and it's fine. And like, that's kind of how it feels like, that's how it wraps up and everything's fine when they have the baby. And it's like, well, no, no, no, I don't think so. Like I, it just, it feels like it was a tale of two different movies. So I'm going to play you a clip here. That's Davis McDonald, my best friend. He was my unsanctioned wife. We got divorced

[00:24:15] when I married Christie. He liked her. He may have even loved her. Are you scared? Here I am. I'm on the verge of finding my life to Christie's. And I've never felt so alone.

[00:24:39] We can split, but you'd be back tomorrow. You were married the minute you met her. You were 16 years old and you were gone. So then it kind of cuts to one flashback with them at a party. He sees her across the room and I guess you're supposed to like, think this is love at first sight. But the trouble with this movie is that you never believe that they're in love.

[00:25:09] Exactly. You needed, you needed something to kind of convince you of what that scene is attempting to convince you. Because even as they're getting ready to get married, neither of them look like they want to get married. Certainly Kevin Bacon doesn't look like he wants to. Well, but she just sits there. She just, it's like, it's, I was concerned that maybe this whole story is like she can't have a baby because she has lithium poison. I want to talk about Alec Baldwin.

[00:25:37] Just, just, just, just be clear. Right. I'm probably like an hour into this movie. I'm like, is she going to have a baby? Like maybe, maybe the, uh, the, the title's ironic. Yeah. Um, Alec Baldwin, I think might be the devil. Um, I feel like the devil's more subtle.

[00:26:06] I mean, if you, if you wanted to cast the devil, who would be more perfect than Alec Baldwin? Uh, he's, I don't know if it's like this particular film. He's, I mean, look, he's, he's, he's beautiful. He's beautiful to look at in this film. Um, Oh yeah. And he, he knows it. We all know it, but he absolutely knows it for sure. And is he trying to break them up the entire film?

[00:26:36] Yeah. I don't know. That's an interesting question. I don't know. I don't, I don't, I, he struck me as sort of self-destructive and like, he's like an agent of chaos or something. Yeah. Well, he's, he's, he's, he strikes me as a sociopath who would be the kind of guy that would convince his best friend to not get married and then they would hang out and then he would just ditch his friend and be like, sorry, I gotta go do something else. Okay. I'm going to play you one more bit with Alec Baldwin.

[00:27:04] Do you think I'm going to be happy? I mean, honestly, you want to be a writer? You want to be a husband? Maybe it'll work out. Who knows? Yeah. You'll be happy. You just won't know it. That's all. So that's the thesis of the film, right? So the thesis of the

[00:27:27] film is, um, yes, take that cookie cutter sort of life experience of your parents, apply it to your own life. It'll make you happy, but you won't know that you're happy. Right? So that's an interesting thesis, but I think that the, the movie is trying to prove that thesis, but it's proving the opposite. I think that there's something about, I think that actually the reverse of that ends up being true

[00:27:56] for Bacon at the end. It's like, he thinks he's happy, but he's really not happy. Um, in other words, he's very, very disappointed with his life, but he doesn't know it. So I think that it's an interesting thesis. If you could prove it with the film, the proof, I think that the film ends up proving the opposite is true. Well, and that's, I think maybe the issue I have is, is any of this

[00:28:22] intentional? Does, is, is what is Hughes going for? I think he's going for, I think he wants this to be a rom-com where it's like, I don't, you don't know if these two are going to make it, but in the end of the, at the end of the day, they do make it and they make it as, uh, you know, a family of three. They, they make it as a family of three when maybe they didn't really work as a family of two,

[00:28:50] which I think is kind of the lie that a lot of married people tell themselves. Right. But that's the exact, that's my exact point is like, I thought that was the, the, where, where this movie was going was to deconstruct that. And instead it's like, it just perpetuates it. That's what it felt like. So that's also, I, I mean, I have, I have a question

[00:29:15] that, uh, it like made me look like this movie was so, uh, jarring to me in so many ways that like, you know, and I already get, we were, I kind of already explored the John Hughes. Well, you just tore your hamstring. So it's, you are sort of staring down the barrel of your own mortality. Exactly. And I have to understand, like, do I have enough time in my life going

[00:29:40] forward to waste on movies? Like she said, will you ever dance like bacon again? You know, probably not. So, so I'm looking at this and I'm watching this movie and I'm like, does John Hughes think he does, does not, does he know that women have agency? Like he does not know. It's really interesting to like, to look back, even when his female protagonists, you're like, how many of them

[00:30:03] are so there's just subjugated to the idea of a man doing anything. I mean, it's just, it's okay. That's an interesting problem because I think that you could critique this film as bacon, not having enough agency. Um, you know, there's that one kind of scene with him and the French girl that he is attracted to and she leaves and she says, you don't know what you want, which is kind of true

[00:30:28] about bacon. Bacon doesn't know what he wants. He's kind of just flopping from one thing to the next. And the one thing that actually moves his life is that his wife decides to stop taking the pill, which is kind of forces him into a new life stage. And so you could say that she's the only one in the film with agency. Nah, nah. See, this is where I, this is where I'll disagree vehemently.

[00:30:57] Everything is about bacon. Bacon chooses. He does not want to go to school anymore. So they stop and they become, they go all the way out there to Indiana to go to school, to focus on his school. Even she's putting her school aside. Why, why is she putting her school aside? Because they're focused on him. She's saying, I want to get a job or something. He's like, Oh, you don't need to do that. So he's taking this role. And then he, then he says, I don't want to go to school. Now I'm going to just

[00:31:24] do this. I'm going to work on my book. So I'm everything now is revolved around the idea that I just want to work on my book. And so then he gets a job in the ad agency and that gets them all the house stuff and everything like that. And it's a classic, uh, it's the classic guy headed towards a midlife crisis already putting into situation to blame his wife for all of the sacrifices that he had to make to try to raise this family and to do all this stuff. When in reality, he's, he's

[00:31:52] running the show. And again, yeah, I mean, he doesn't know what he wants. It's like, well, that's, so everything revolves around whether or not he knows what he wants. And if he wants this, then we'll do that. And if he wants this, we'll do that instead. And it's like, that's, and so she, she tries to sort of grab agency by, by moving the, uh, you know, flushing the pill or whatever. But what is that coming from? That's coming from all the exterior forces

[00:32:20] that are telling her that she needs to have some sort of, to be defined as, you know, uh, you know, motherhood is your next step. She went from being now she she's wife. Now she has to move to mother. Neither of those roles, at least in that time period, suggest that, that they're living for themselves. So a lot of that, I agree with a lot of that. A lot of that is true. Um,

[00:32:42] I think that there is something about her biological clock, uh, at 23. Yeah, I think so. I think that there is something about her biological clock that's guiding her actions in this movie. I think she does, but we see a flashback. She makes a major decision that moves the plot in this story. Yeah, that's true. Again, I, I don't disagree with that, but I mean, the agency that

[00:33:10] John Hughes gives his female protagonist is motherhood. Oh, there's no, look, there's no question that John Hughes doesn't write women. Well, I mean, I'm not going to argue that at all. Um, I, I do, but I just, I think that it's, I think, and here's the thing I think is, is I have a bigger issue too, with the John Hughes perception of, of, uh, the man in these types of situations

[00:33:35] is he kind of almost, uh, glorifies the man child. And, and the idea that, uh, Kevin Bacon is like, like at some, I mean, am I ever, there's no reason for me to like feel for this guy in a way that's like, man, this is really hard. All these pressures. It's like, well, some of this you put on yourself, you know, you want to write your, you want to write this book. I mean, I mean, look, writing books are hard, you know, but you know, there's also sort of that balance that you

[00:34:01] got to have. Like when you make certain decisions, you kind of have to own certain parts of that. And, um, I don't know. It just feels like, like I'm supposed to, I, I, if I was ever, I honestly feel like the movie's trying to get me to, to, to wonder if like he deserves to be with this French woman so he can kind of Alec Baldwin his way through life. And I'm like, I don't find him heroic when he turns

[00:34:26] it down. I don't find him. No, he's, he's not heroic. I mean, there's no, there's no question about that. Um, and I think, but I, I do think it's an important moment in the film because I think he does realize at that moment that he's not Alec Baldwin. And I think that there's a part of him that thinks, well, maybe I will be happy. Maybe the grass is greener. Maybe I would be happy if I did live my

[00:34:54] life a little bit more like my best friend. And in this moment he realizes, well, that, yeah, it's not for me. I absolutely love my wife. Um, it doesn't make him heroic at all. It just adds more indecision to the character. Um, so I don't know. I mean, I think the movie was certainly going for something like, I think we're supposed to at the end of the film feel like this guy has it all.

[00:35:22] He did. It was all right in front of him all the time. If he just had eyes to see it, he had happiness. All he had to do is reach out and grasp it. And, and now they're going to live happily ever after. I did not feel that way at the end of this. No. And because the only way that we knew that he ever had happiness is in a montage of things that we never saw before. That's, that's a way more interesting couple. Like show me any of those scenes so I can see that they have those moments because every time

[00:35:51] they're together, it feels like they're, um, like, like they're just not on speech terms. And that's fine to have that in the movie to kind of talk about the obstacles of, of, of marrying and marrying young and all those kinds of things. But you can't just give us a movie where these people just coexist. Then give us all these montages of all the good times. And you're like, Oh, they did enjoy each other and go, okay, well in that case, have the baby, you know, it just feels weird. And I think

[00:36:17] it's also a little undercut by how cartoonish everybody around them is. Well, that's, you would expect some of that from a John Hughes movie. In fact, the cartoonish people around Bacon and McGovern, those are my favorite parts of the movie. Well, yeah. And you're like, I probably should care a little bit about the two leads. I mean, no, that's why I was saying it's like, it, this movie did feel like take all of the sort

[00:36:45] of like extras in Ferris Bueller. And now they're getting their own movie, but right. But they're still treated as extra because you don't care about the main characters. It just feels like it feels a little bit like sketch comedy. It's like a bit after a bit after a bit. Yeah. And I start to feel like everybody else around them is right. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, cause like, cause his in-laws are like over the top. Right.

[00:37:11] And so that's another issue that, that I think that the movie has is that he's an unreliable narrator. Right. I mean, he's both, I was going to ask you this actually narrating. And then there's a lot of aspects of his life that is daydreaming. So then I'm like, well, are all of these experiences and all these things that are being said, are they all happening? Because by having the lawnmower scene by having the film is that sophisticated, I do. And that's, and that's exactly, I think

[00:37:38] maybe the other critique is that John Hughes got a little bit over his head, I think. And not understanding is like, well, I want to do these things and sort of break into these daydreams. It's like, okay, well, this is the movie you're making then. And there's actually very like, that's actually a way more interesting movie. If, if there is kind of this blurred concept. I'm interested in this. What do you think about the Bacon voiceover? I don't, it didn't do anything for me. Okay. When, as soon as I heard it, you know what

[00:38:06] it reminded me of? It reminded me of Richard Dreyfuss in Stand By Me. Ah. It sounded. So he's telling the story. It sounded exactly like. I was living in a small town in Oregon called Castle Rock. There were only 1,281 people, but to me it was the whole world. Like just listen to the cadence and the tone of the, the narration. Mm-hmm. That's Davis McDonald, my best friend. He was my unsanctioned wife. We got divorced when I married Christy.

[00:38:36] Yeah, no fair. I think that that's almost exactly Richard Dreyfuss. So that's the part is like, is this him reading his book that he wrote? And this is his perspective. I think that that's supposed to be it. And, and then I thought maybe a Stand By Me knockoff. And then I was like, kind of, so I had Will Wheaton on the, on the brain. And then you see Will Wheaton at the. Will Wheaton shows up. Will Wheaton shows up toward the end of the movie wearing exactly his costume from Star Trek The Next Generation. Right.

[00:39:04] So does, is this whole degrees of Kevin Bacon made possible by all of the different cameos at the end of this movie? I, I had no idea that those cameos existed. We could have done White Men Can't Jump right after this. We could have done anything after this. Yeah. The amount of cameos that were in there were insane. I wonder if, and now I've never played the board game. Lots of cheers. I've never played degrees of Kevin Bacon board game.

[00:39:30] But I wonder if that board game exists because of all those cameos. Interesting. Who, who was the best cameo? At the end there? I got two questions. Who's the best cameo then? And what is this? 1985, 1984, something like that? 88. 88. Who's the best cameo in 88? And who's the best cameo now? So 88.

[00:39:59] Wow, that's a good question because there were some, there were some heavy hitters there. In 88, I think, I think it's probably. Is it Bueller? Bueller? Well, here's the thing. It's got to be Aykroyd. Because he's in his great outdoors gear. He's great outdoors. He's still, people still remember him from the golden age of SNL. He's already done Ghostbusters. Has he done We Are The World yet? Yeah, I think so.

[00:40:29] He's done We Are The World. I think he's. They let him have the most run, right? I think Hughes thinks he's the biggest star. But in retrospect, looking back on this, I think it's probably Murray? Oh, yeah. Murray coming up. Yeah. The Scrooged Murray there. Yeah. Looking back, he's probably the bigger star. Is there anyone else that, you know, I guess, you know, Ted Danson is. I mean, in retrospect, Woody Harrelson's a bigger deal now than he was then. Oh, for sure. He was just cheers. For sure.

[00:40:59] I think there's probably a few people in that list that I didn't recognize. Maybe there's a famous director in that list that I just didn't recognize. Anyway, one of the most enjoyable post-credit sequences, I think, in comparison to the film. Yeah. The post-credit sequence was maybe more entertaining than the film.

[00:41:29] Steve. Was there a trope, a device, or a cliche that you enjoyed in this movie? I thought the attempt at trying to, you know, maximize fertility options was kind of funny. Yeah, that's been done a couple times. This was pretty good. Again, one of those unreliable narrator things. It's like, this is how Bacon is living in the room.

[00:41:57] This is not what's actually happening in the room. My favorite is, I love it when you got two guys on a job and one guy's been there for 20 years and he's kind of telling it like it is to like a rookie. Here, I'll play you the clip I like. You're looking at the rare individual because I'm busted out.

[00:42:21] Listen, I measure my life in degrees of happiness. I'm, uh, I'm supporting my family in a way that makes me happy. I got a nice house. I got a real nice car. And once a year, I write an ad that I'm proud of. And that's what you want? No, that's what I take. You never get what you want.

[00:42:49] The guys who jump off the Michigan Avenue bridge on their 40th birthdays are the ones who want more than they will ever get. You depress the shit out of me. Yeah. Consider what I do to myself. Kind of playing with the thesis of the movie. Right. You know, it's like, I love that little moment where it's like this. Here's one guy who's sort of the grizzled old cop.

[00:43:17] And you got the rookie who's just joined the force. Kind of learning how, uh, you know, the world is sort of a place of morally gray. You could do with almost any profession. Right. Um, but here's this depressing guy. And because the thesis of the movie kind of doesn't work in the end. Like maybe that's the thesis of the movie. Well, that's the thing.

[00:43:45] The movie kept on flirting with a better movie. Like throughout. Yeah. Right, right, right. And I think that's part of the other frustration that I would have. I'm like, oh, well, I could do this. But I'd have to undo. So is this a really depressing movie in the end? Yeah. If you follow the, if you follow what the narrative suggests, the ending is actually tragic. He's going to turn into this guy. He's going to turn. Yeah.

[00:44:10] Totally turn in to Mr. Depressing Suicide Off the Bridge Guy. Because he's got his book written. Which doesn't mean anything. Because now he has to go, like the next, the sequel would be him trying to get an editor to give a crap. And that causing strife. And he's not home enough. You know, all that stuff. Like that, he's the, the idea that he's all better and they're all better because of, because she almost died. And he had, and he got, he had a sweet montage. Because it doesn't sustain.

[00:44:40] And it can't sustain in the movie that was built. And I don't think that the movie's trying to say that at the end. But that's how I read it. That's how I walked away from going, well, this is just tragic. See, this is, this is us screwing up bacon wrap season right off the bat. I think it's foreshadowing. We have such high hopes for this season. Now we're talking about suicide.

[00:45:09] Well, the movie, our, our, how does our bacon wrap end? I forget. What's our last movie again? Flatliners. Where they're just killing themselves. Over and over and over again. We start from birth to death. Are you kidding? Are we, are we, we couldn't have, we're accidental geniuses. I know, I know.

[00:45:37] Was there a tweak you would have made to this movie to improve it? A different director. Oh, that's sad. Does this, is this. The movie's called she's having a baby and it could have also been called. She doesn't matter. Let me ask you this. What if two different people are casting this? I, I hate to remove bacon from the lead role, but. I think, I, I just, I think bacon has, I could, could do it.

[00:46:05] I don't, I, I don't know enough about Elizabeth Montgomery, McGovern, but she, I mean, her childbirth scenes were interesting. She can scream. But. I love her because she was a lady Grantham on Downton Abbey. Oh, okay. That's how I knew her. I thought about that. And I thought maybe, maybe these are miscast. Like what if instead of Baldwin, it was bacon plays the Baldwin character, because then it might add a little more.

[00:46:36] A little, because like, because Baldwin was so sinister. And it's crazy to me. This is the same year that he does Beetlejuice. He plays kind of like a dorky dude. That's interesting. And he, and he put, you know, he's got the glasses on. So he, he, you know, you, you put, you put glasses on the guy in his mid twenties. And now he's like dad. He's got like a dad vibe. Yeah. That's interesting. Fun fact. The year later, he plays Jimmy Swagger in Great Balls of Fire. Who does? Baldwin.

[00:47:04] Baldwin plays Jimmy Swagger? Yeah. I did not know that. I have a scene. I have a question for you about this, about one of the scenes in this movie. Okay. So we're nearing the climax of the film. It is John Hughes. So it's going to be set outside of Chicago, right? He hears from the receptionist that his wife wants to meet him at the

[00:47:34] Museum of Natural History, which is where he took his, uh, Gumar on the date or, you know, his almost Gumar on the date. And he realizes I'm going to have to go meet my wife there. And I think that the, the suggestion is maybe the wife knows there's a moment when he looks at a poster of Michael Jordan. Hmm.

[00:48:00] And Michael Jordan kind of looks back at him. There's like this knowing exchange between bacon and a poster of Michael Jordan. That's framed as if it's meaningful in some way. Hmm. What do we do with this? I don't know. Cause I mean, it's like, it's, it's Michael Jordan, Hawk and McDonald's. I mean, one way you can look at this is like, okay,

[00:48:30] he shoots, he scores. He's, that's how we know he's, maybe so. Or maybe it's like, here's a sort of aspirational Chicago hero. That is going to inspire me to go to the next step of my life. But looking back, it's like, is there anyone more cynical than Michael Jordan? You know? Yeah. So I don't know if that ages very well. I just don't know what to make of that. Yeah. It's cause it's a, it's a,

[00:48:59] it's a clear moment. I mean, it was like, it really took me for a second too. Cause I was like, I just started thinking like, what is this trying to tell me? Yeah. And maybe nothing, but. Yeah. I would be very curious to hear him talk about that. Steve, who is this movie for? I think it thinks it's for the,

[00:49:26] the aging John Hughes faithfuls and audience. I think that's what it thinks it's. When does breakfast club come out? I want to say 85. Yep. 85. Okay. 1985. We, you know, we sort of captured the life of these, you know, mid high schoolers around 85 or like, I don't know,

[00:49:55] seniors in high school or whoever they are. Right. And Ben Bueller's the day or the year after. And that's a senior. Right. And then what happens to these folks living in a Chicago suburb three years later? Right. I think of that as, I think this movie is trying to appeal to the same audience. Yeah, exactly. Just a little bit older. Yeah. That's what I think. I think that's what it's trying to do.

[00:50:25] That's who it's, that's who it was made for. And I think it was really in, but it's really for a red box. It's, this is a straight. Let's not. Is this movie better, worse, or on par with the Ron Howard film? I'm going to say it's a Ron Howard minus four. Yeah. I was going to say minus three. I did. I did enjoy. I mean, there were little bits and pieces of this movie that are just delightful. Well,

[00:50:55] that's the thing. It's like, be delightful. You can be delightful and introspective. You can do that. But if you don't care about the central relationship of the film, right? The whole, the rest of it just falls apart. Yeah. Whenever something delightful happens, you're kind of like, we have, I mean, everything else just sucks. I guess. I mean, it's just, it doesn't, it doesn't, there's no thread that's, that's tying things together. Right. I mean, it's, it's like, there, it,

[00:51:24] it introduces ideas. And then it's like a shotgun approach. This is like a little pellets going everywhere. That's sort of going to give you a different slice of life of early marriage. And none of it really hangs together with a central. And it's weird because this is a movie with a very clear thesis. It just, you know, maybe it's one of these things where it's like, you get a director who hits home run after home run,

[00:51:54] and then he gets to the stage of his career where no one can really give it, give him advice. And maybe he's, maybe he's lost his swing. I don't know. But what's wild is that like, he, this is coming off of the heels of planes, trains and automobiles, which is a hit. And there's like no youth in it, you know? So like, he's actually just handling older people kind of adeptly in, in many ways. Right. And so it's kind of fascinating that like, this was the one that like, I think they were like, Oh, this is, this is maybe the new trajectory of John Hughes.

[00:52:23] Then he sort of steps back in and maybe he just aged out, you know, maybe he aged out of that type of storytelling fairly, rapidly. It's funny because I think at the, I mean, we'll get to it when we talk about transplants and automobiles, it's just, that movie has so much heart and it's a movie that the premise and the, it's just like gag after gag after gag. And you're not really expecting it. And yet at the end, you're like almost in tears. And this movie is like almost the opposite.

[00:52:53] It's like you. And we can save it for our review of that, but I think, I think it's a, we'll just do a tease. Cause I think we'll talk about it. When it comes time, look at the montage in, at the end here, when he, when, when bacon is, is not sure if his wife is going to make it, if his baby's going to make it and how that montage plays itself out and what he chooses to remember and what they choose to show versus Steve Martin looking back when he's leaving John candy behind.

[00:53:20] That montage is exactly what this montage was. Right. Yeah. I was watching this movie with my son and I was just saying like, yeah, they don't do that anymore. They don't do that anymore. Like we're going into the hospital. It's like the, the, the, the ankles and stirrups. Yeah. We don't do that anymore. Uh, you know, everything about it. And then it was like bacon crying. I was like, yeah, we don't cry like that anymore. It was just a lot of snot in the eighties. Oh, so much snot in the eighties.

[00:53:53] It's like, man, um, and I have a cold and I'm like, I don't look like this. Uh, I was going to ask you one more thing. Oh yeah. Did you ever call your in-laws mom and dad? It's that seems a couple of times in this movie, you know, there's sort of a bacon voiceover. Like these are the, you know, my in-laws, I'm going to end up calling them mom and dad. Then they ended up having the conversation over the, the dinner. How come you don't call us mom and dad?

[00:54:23] That, that is a bygone era. That does not happen anymore. Yeah. I don't think so. I never call. It never even occurred to me to call my in-laws mom and or dad. And that would be very good. I know. Yeah. Never occurred to him. So again, I think this is one of those times that where Hughes is almost projecting some kind of sixties mentality onto the eighties in an entertainment.

[00:54:53] And creating kind of an imaginary world that never existed. And I really appreciate you saying that. And I think that's really valuable to look at because, you know, I mean the idea of generation gaps is nothing new. I feel like there's maybe a little more emphasis on it and maybe a little bit more of generational awareness than maybe in the past. Where like generations like to, to, to identify as,

[00:55:22] as the generation that they are and to create separation, both sides. Stand by me is a great example of this. Right. And I think what's really interesting about what your statement is, is that there are a lot of Gen Xers that have as a backdrop to their youth. And this can be said about anything, you know, because most of the time directors, if they're, if they're doing a time period or, or they're, you know, doing something modern, they're probably looking at it through a lens that's older, but,

[00:55:51] but specifically with the John Hughes films that are supposed to be these like touchstone moments and in like eighties teenagers lives that we, we were supposed to relate to. He sort of force feeds a lens to a certain degree to your way, the way that you put it, that, that we looked at as that's part of our generation X upbringing, but really it was just an interpretation. That's right. That's right. And it was, and it was certainly for most of his films,

[00:56:20] it was a very entertaining interpretation that, you know, it could be that we tried to mimic, but well, and it, and it comes through almost as if it's trying to be empathetic, but in a way it's still painting with the very broad brush that he criticizes in, in breakfast club. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. And I think that this film could have been a critique. It's like, it, it was like a half swing. It's like, it was almost a critique on that.

[00:56:50] Kind of cookie cutter suburban experience. That ends up kind of falling in, you know, falling, falling right into it. What if this, I mean, imagine this movie and tell me if this, if this seems like a better followup, they are doing all of these things and they're trying to get pregnant and never can. It's a much more interesting movie. It's a much more interesting movie because you have the opportunity to go through this,

[00:57:20] this force fed. Well, you got to have a baby. Now I got to have a baby. Now it's like, well, what happens if you can't do the thing that is supposed to be your next defining moment? How, how do you, how are you then defined? And then you have a movie where you can really explore having to navigate being young and married in an evolving world and having to evolve with it as opposed to just copy and pasting of the previous generation. Yeah. And if it's that movie, I think you definitely need a different director,

[00:57:50] right? For sure. Uh, is there a one to grow on half the battle moment in this film? Um, stay away from Alec Baldwin. It's good. Especially, especially if you're on a Western movie set. I like the line. Um, uh, people don't mature anymore. They're just jackasses their entire lives. That's not fair. I thought actually that's not a bad thesis for this movie. Um,

[00:58:21] what are we doing? Oh, big trouble, baby. Big trouble in little China next week, Steve. That's right. And all because of the photographer. Uh, Oh, that was, I was going to say that. What's the, what's the name of the actor? Al, I think it's Al Long. I don't know if it's Long or Long. Okay. Uh, I did think that he had one of the best laughs of the, of the film. I, I, I laughed pretty hard. I love, I love a, a temperamental, uh, photographer. Um, the,

[00:58:51] he, he goes to the, the set and knocks it over and then turns around and puts his hands on his hips like a superhero. I just, it just really tickled me. Well, and I also was so nice to have him in a role where he got to be something else. Like he got to have some, some comedy chops and he got to, you know, like to speak. He didn't have it. Yes. He did not have an accent. And which was also really interesting is, uh, he didn't have his hair back or anything.

[00:59:19] They just let him look exactly the same as he does in every movie, but they let him play off type. And I'm like, why is there not more of this? It's, you know, what's really sad is that in 1988, that's actually notable. It's like, Oh, this guy is not cliche. it's also notable that John Hughes didn't do the cliche with them. Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, for sure. For sure. And it's, it's sort of like, um, it,

[00:59:49] you have a little moment like that where you think, Oh geez, these movies just are rotten. these stereotypes. Yeah. So that when you don't see one, it stands out. Right.