Steve and Anthony find religion with Leap of Faith.
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00:19 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other whole fiction.
00:25 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Today we take a look at nineteen ninety-two's leap of faith.
00:28 --> 00:31 [SPEAKER_01]: starring Steve Martin as a shifty traveling faith dealer.
00:31 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Leap of faith tells an improbable tale of Midwesterners, following for promises made by someone who is clearly a liar and a criminal.
00:38 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_01]: With me to discuss this film as always is Dr. Anthony Lodon.
00:43 --> 00:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Is that what was had?
00:44 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_06]: A clown horn in the background?
00:46 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_01]: The phone call coming through.
00:50 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we try it again without the?
00:53 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_06]: People in the last time you ate it a diner that wasn't trying to punch above its weight.
01:02 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm talking recie spoon, small town diner.
01:04 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, that's a good question.
01:08 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been a while, I think.
01:11 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I might have been on the road to Seattle.
01:17 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no, I think Eureka.
01:20 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Eureka's got small town dinners like that.
01:22 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think it was in Arcada.
01:24 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_06]: I just ate it one couple days ago and it was like, you know, Columbus, Ohio.
01:30 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_06]: It was like right next door to like a really high-end coffee shop.
01:34 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_06]: This diner was like, nope.
01:36 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_06]: We know exactly what we are.
01:38 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_06]: We're not gonna raise our prices.
01:41 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_06]: And it was great.
01:43 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_06]: I love these little greasy spoon diners.
01:45 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_06]: And I feel like there's, they're just far less of them.
01:48 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know how they stay in business to be honest, but I love going with them if I can.
01:54 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's funny.
01:54 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you, you, you, you wonder, like, you'll go to, I mean, like, around here, you know, it's an home accounting, like everything's expensive, like you pet you pay more for it to be, to feel authentically cheaper.
02:10 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_01]: But
02:11 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: because just running these places where it's like, you know, you get like a seven course breakfast for like a dollar sixty eight.
02:19 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, look, I don't even, like, how is this even if the food was fake, like fake food's more one more than that, you know?
02:26 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, like plastic versions of eggs are still expensive, you know?
02:32 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand what's happening.
02:35 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I wonder if like if this is just like these are like billionaires that are like, you know what?
02:41 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to feed truckers.
02:42 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, all right.
02:44 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_06]: So this is an interesting question.
02:45 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_06]: So I like these places.
02:47 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_06]: I will go to these places.
02:50 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_06]: But I'm kind of a kind of a coffee snob.
02:53 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
02:53 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_06]: And so if the coffee.
02:55 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_06]: So it's almost like I won't order it.
02:57 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Like the Sarah and I went to one of these the other day.
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_06]: And she ordered the coffee.
03:05 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_06]: And I was like, no, I'm fine.
03:07 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_06]: And I was just kind of going to wait.
03:10 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_06]: I was maybe going to have a sip of her coffee.
03:14 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_06]: Like an asshole.
03:16 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_06]: I was going to have a sip of her coffee and decide whether it was worth ordering the coffee because that's a one like a royal taster.
03:27 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_06]: It's the one thing that I just can't go back on.
03:30 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, look, I've seen the Promised Land.
03:34 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_06]: I am not going back to the wilderness.
03:38 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_06]: with coffee.
03:38 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm similar.
03:41 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, here's the thing, my first coffee of the day has to be good coffee.
03:45 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'll settle into a diner or, you know, a bottomless, you know, way too thick of a mug full of hot brown water from a diner.
03:56 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mind.
03:59 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_06]: I'll cream it up.
04:00 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_06]: So you, you're saying that as long as you were able to make your little Americano at home with your friends, there's something.
04:08 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It may not even necessarily have to be the first coffee.
04:11 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I just need a promise of good coffee in that day.
04:13 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have that agency and I'll do that.
04:15 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_01]: So I kind of feel like the coffee at the diner is part of the experience.
04:25 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I want those button mug wall to be so impossibly thick like an inch, you know.
04:30 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's so crazy.
04:32 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And like bottomless coffee with the end of the day, you probably had like maybe a cup of coffee.
04:36 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You want the mug.
04:38 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_06]: You want a mug that would kill a caveman.
04:43 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, something, yeah, it's like whatever bowling balls are made of.
04:50 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_06]: I got a couple of those.
04:51 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_06]: I got an old Denny's mug at home.
04:53 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm like in nineteen eighty four, whatever.
04:56 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_06]: And I love it.
04:58 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_06]: I love it.
04:58 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_06]: I, you know, got it.
05:01 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_06]: got it off a desk.
05:02 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_06]: It was just holding pens.
05:04 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_06]: I was like, no, this is, you've, you've underestimated this mug, sir.
05:12 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, I liked it.
05:14 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Funny that you mentioned Denny's, I was just in Vegas and like, there's a lot you could do in Vegas.
05:18 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of what it's made for.
05:20 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of, like, so I get there, I don't think it up early, take the dogs, go party and everything and walk through the casino floor watching people like arrive.
05:30 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just heard one woman go, no, I know the denies is around here somewhere.
05:33 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just really thought, that was, I found that's so charming that, uh, here they are, they're in Vegas.
05:38 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, she's like, look, okay, I know we're settling in, but let's just, let's figure out where the denies is.
05:44 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's a comfort thing.
05:46 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, honestly, I know we were going to talk about this, but
05:52 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_06]: There is something about a fundamental difference between conservatives and progressives, where you can find a conservative because when they go to a restaurant, they want to go to one that they've been to before.
06:07 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_06]: They know the menu.
06:08 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_06]: They're going to order the same thing off the menu.
06:12 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Whereas a progressive tends to think, well, what's the new thing?
06:19 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_06]: What town can I go to where I've
06:21 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_06]: can go to a restaurant with never been before.
06:24 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_06]: It's a menu I've never seen before.
06:26 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_06]: For me, there's pleasure in that.
06:31 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_06]: So I'm in, of course, I'm all about the new restaurant and the new menu, right?
06:37 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_06]: But I could see, like, look, you're in Vegas.
06:40 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_06]: You don't want an all you can eat buffet for breakfast.
06:45 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_06]: You want the Denny's menu.
06:48 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_06]: That's comfort for you.
06:50 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_06]: And I see the appeal above.
06:55 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I guess it makes me a matter.
06:57 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to find a new place.
06:58 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Go to that place a few times and order the same thing.
07:01 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
07:02 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
07:04 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this this this movie leap of faith has what I think is a pretty strong beginning.
07:16 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_06]: And part of that does feature a diner scene.
07:21 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_06]: And I like, I like these small time diners.
07:24 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_06]: I like it when it feels like a small town diner.
07:26 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_06]: I think that there's, you know, in nineteen eighty nineteen ninety two when this was out.
07:31 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
07:32 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_06]: I think you could find a thousand of these diners across America.
07:38 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_06]: in towns that look just like this.
07:40 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_06]: It's kind of a little vacation for me that the beginning of this film, like I like long road trips.
07:48 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_06]: I like the idea of stopping in a small town and just sort of experiencing the Americana of it.
07:59 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_06]: And I like these little diners.
08:03 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_06]: I like this diner that they go to.
08:08 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And for you, the movie was good because there was a diner and then once they left the diner, went downhill.
08:13 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_06]: After the diner scene, there's not much to like about this movie.
08:20 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_06]: But I do like, I like, I really like the way this movie starts.
08:27 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_06]: I like this cop scam.
08:31 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I think I don't know how it is.
08:33 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Just can your life for minimum wage?
08:36 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Never enough of those pretty dresses that fancy summer camp all her friends went to.
08:43 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And some rich asshole takes not only your wife, but your own little girl.
08:47 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I think you'll see her.
08:50 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't say that I have love, but I know people.
08:54 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And I know she misses the way you protected her, made her feel like a princess.
08:59 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you smiled at her the night of the prom.
09:02 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Looks down to the violin case.
09:04 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Good times you had teaching her the violin.
09:06 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_04]: The what?
09:13 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Clared alone.
09:16 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_04]: We played that together.
09:18 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_04]: No rich step daddy can give her that low.
09:21 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_04]: She hasn't called in over a year.
09:23 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Because you made her choose between you and her mother.
09:26 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Brother, you drove her away.
09:30 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I'll call her tonight.
09:35 --> 09:37 [SPEAKER_04]: when I got a phone right there on that bot.
09:38 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_06]: I love this scene.
09:39 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_06]: I think it's fantastic.
09:41 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_06]: What do you do with this scene?
09:42 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_06]: You establish this guy's a con artist, right?
09:44 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_06]: That's fundamentally who he is.
09:46 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_06]: He's got a team that's rooting him on and they've got a whole system.
09:52 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_06]: They've got a whole scam.
09:53 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Like he's going to wear an earpiece.
09:56 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_06]: You're going to have someone on a computer looking up, you know, the top, top Catholic names, right?
10:02 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_06]: because he saw the rosary on his dash.
10:06 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_06]: You've got basically, you've got Steve Martin showing how good he is as a con artist.
10:15 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_06]: And on top of that, it's a victimless crime.
10:19 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, at the end of it, the cop reunites with his estranged daughter.
10:26 --> 10:31 [SPEAKER_06]: And so, this guy's a con artist, but you like him because
10:32 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_06]: Not only is there no harm in what he's doing, he's actually bringing families together like he's he's actually there's actually a purpose for him to be driving across the America America line to cops like the outcome
10:49 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_06]: outweighs the, I guess the duplicitous nature of the business, which is the lie he continues to tell himself throughout the film.
11:01 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, until the climax or whatever, but I think that this is the scene does really well to establish who this character is and what this story is about.
11:10 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
11:11 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, so I've seen this movie a bunch and I watch this movie every time hoping I'll like it more.
11:19 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_01]: because it's, uh, I feel like it's almost there.
11:23 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's a near miss this movie.
11:25 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like it has all the right ingredients, um, but maybe the portions of the have been put together in the recipe wrong, you know what I mean?
11:36 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, like there's, there's a, there's a story being told that I is compelling, but most of the time it isn't.
11:46 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's it's like I still enjoy it.
11:49 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very let's hope for me this is a very this is one of those This is a diner for me.
11:54 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a this is a meal that I'm like I'm gonna be full I probably won't like love all of it.
12:02 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_06]: I'll probably eat more of it than I want but at the end of the day Yeah, you're not expecting the French laundry when you go into a diner and so because of that your expectations are low enough that you can experience it for what it is
12:15 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know that like in this particular, like for me, the movie leap of faith is something I will return to because I know the eggs won't be too runny.
12:26 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The toast will have too much butter and the coffee's just a little burnt, but altogether it is absolutely one hundred percent predictably fine.
12:39 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_06]: On top of that, now that you will not darken the door of a church, this is the closest you're gonna get to God.
12:46 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the absolute closest I get to evangelism.
12:52 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It's in sometimes like a used to frust.
12:56 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I when I first saw it, I was like, I was frustrated because I'm like, how is this not a better movie?
13:04 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:04 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I chased it for a while when well, maybe it's better.
13:07 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, it's exactly what it is.
13:11 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say it's a waste of a performance because I think
13:15 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there are parts of Steve Martin's performance that I'm like, I don't know.
13:19 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I think sometimes he absolutely nails it in other times, I feel like, well, what are you, are you trying to play this for laughs?
13:27 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe, and if you didn't, would that be even better?
13:31 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I want to talk about Steve Martin.
13:35 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_06]: I think that he should be good in this role.
13:38 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_06]: I think you think about him, you think, yeah, I can see him in this role.
13:43 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_06]: And yet, I think,
13:45 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I was, of course, I was watching the the ebert review.
13:48 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_06]: I think ebert's right and that he's a little bit of a departure for him.
13:52 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_06]: He's, uh, he's a little bit darker.
13:55 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_06]: He's a little bit more cynical.
13:57 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_06]: And so his performance is is just surface, right?
14:02 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_06]: He does he can do that.
14:04 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_06]: He can do the performance thing.
14:06 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_06]: and he seems natural on stage in that way.
14:10 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_06]: And yet, there's something deeper.
14:12 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_06]: There's a couple layers.
14:13 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_06]: There's the cynic, the con man underneath, and then there's the wounded little boy who was left on the street corner underneath that.
14:21 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_06]: And underneath that, there's like,
14:24 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_06]: the guy at the end who's going to, you know, think Jesus for the rain, you know.
14:31 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_06]: So it's a layered performance and yet he kind of doesn't work in this film.
14:37 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_06]: Like it is impossible that he delivers a good performance, but it was just the just off enough that it didn't quite work in this film.
14:49 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of this, you know,
14:52 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: because I know Steve Martin can go a little, can really do the cynical, be the darker, and still be charming, but also kind of untrustworthy.
15:05 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen him do that, and I think he can, I think this is a director issue.
15:11 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this director is like, who?
15:15 --> 15:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you look at his, I mean, most of his stuff is TV, which means it's probably an episode here there,
15:23 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess he directed the movie No Mercy with Richard Geer and Kim Basinger.
15:31 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But like nothing really particularly memorable.
15:35 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I guess one of the producers, as I'm trying to want it to fire, but the studio wouldn't let it let it happen.
15:43 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So who knows, right?
15:44 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I, because a lot of times I just feel like, like, it just doesn't,
15:54 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_01]: the scenes don't work moving to each other very well.
15:57 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the choices seem a little bit odd.
16:01 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's not dark enough to be overly cynical and it's not light enough to be hopeful.
16:07 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very much just sort of there.
16:10 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And you have such a, and you have such like ripe critiques can be made.
16:20 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_01]: This is really something that like, what do you want to critique?
16:22 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you want to critique?
16:25 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_01]: the commodification of religion.
16:26 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to create a complicated, you know, lead that is at one point despicable, but at another point maybe sympathetic?
16:39 --> 16:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to bring out any of the tension of people that are, you know, grifters for higher or, you know, I mean, all these things are there, but they're just left on the plate.
16:54 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And and it's because like by the time we get this sort of, you know, this moment of, you know,
17:03 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Steve Martin's character leaves and he's thanking Jesus for the... It seems like, well, okay, I guess.
17:10 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, I didn't quite understand.
17:13 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_06]: I do want to talk about the end of this movie, but before I do that, I want to play the trailer for it.
17:18 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_05]: Just off the main hype and a wide spot in the road is Rustwater, Kansas.
17:31 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Brian Pickens, or Jonas Nightingale.
17:34 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Are you ready for America?
17:38 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Part Schummer.
17:39 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_03]: I hear Satan knockin' body, can't come in!
17:41 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Part salesman.
17:42 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't need no bridge or sell him, that's a lot of fun.
17:44 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Not sell a bunk friend, I'm giving it away.
17:47 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Messiah of the interstate.
17:49 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Take a whip or just walk there, especially the steak.
17:52 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a very no fish, no hand, no spinach.
17:54 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I've a lot of nose, there, Maru.
17:56 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_00]: No lips.
17:57 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_00]: She wants me.
17:58 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's stick with you by the point here.
18:03 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't care what these people leave.
18:11 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_04]: You're truck broke down and you're looking to catch you.
18:13 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I give my people a good show.
18:18 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Plenty of music.
18:21 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Always doing the selling fairy tales will punch a people.
18:24 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for it.
18:26 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel a healing coming on.
18:29 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_00]: My sister's things seem faint.
18:30 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, maybe I am, and maybe I'm not.
18:32 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_04]: But if the job done, what difference does it matter?
18:34 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Get the strength in your life!
18:35 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_04]: You believe in miracles, right?
18:37 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_04]: I like to hear what your sister has to say on the subject.
18:39 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I've moved in life.
18:40 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_00]: What it does to you?
18:42 --> 18:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And what you do that?
18:43 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready for the truth?
18:44 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_03]: I bet the last time you had a man was when Nixon was in office.
18:47 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're so manipulative.
18:49 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_03]: manipulators are sneaky.
18:51 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm obvious.
18:52 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I look?
18:53 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I look?
18:57 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_00]: A series of alleged miracles have occurred on the town of Rustwater, Kansas.
19:01 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Ledge.
19:02 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_02]: You said it, babe.
19:04 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_02]: They say a little faith can work wonders.
19:06 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I read what about me.
19:08 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I got anymore.
19:10 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_03]: He's a power left in me tonight.
19:12 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_02]: But once in a while, it just might do the impossible.
19:15 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you worried this time, Jones, that somebody's actually there watching?
19:22 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Paramount Pictures presents Steve Martin, Deborah Winger.
19:26 --> 19:32 [SPEAKER_03]: leap of faith.
19:34 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_06]: That's the whole movie.
19:36 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's actually a better moving.
19:39 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_06]: That's the whole movie.
19:42 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_06]: This, they didn't leave anything out.
19:45 --> 19:47 [SPEAKER_06]: In fact, a lot of the best lines are in this.
19:48 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
19:48 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_06]: This is everything we got.
19:51 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you want more?
19:53 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_06]: Right, and the more was actually kind of less.
19:55 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_06]: The more was less, the trailer is better.
19:58 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_06]: The trailer is better than the movie.
20:02 --> 20:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, and I think that's kind of the, what we're talking about here is that like, like, yeah, you can actually give me that trailer.
20:09 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And then now, okay, so which of these parts are we going to explore?
20:14 --> 20:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, are we going to make this Charlotton sympathetic?
20:18 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a trick.
20:19 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's quite a movie if you could pull that off.
20:21 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But not really, you don't do it.
20:23 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Are we going to explore, like I said, the themes of how religion can be commodified and people can be taking advantage of, like, are we going to explore that a little bit?
20:36 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, we're just going to show that it can happen.
20:39 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's nothing more to it.
20:40 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just like, I want to say it's lazy.
20:48 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's trying.
20:49 --> 20:50 [SPEAKER_01]: It's trying.
20:50 --> 20:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It's trying and failing.
20:52 --> 20:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Like watching me like try to dunk, I guess.
20:55 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm getting off the ground.
20:59 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I'm trying to do.
21:00 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But at some point, you're going to have to say, look, either any of them to roll as ankle or just we got to stop watching.
21:10 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_06]: The line to me that was maybe the best line in the movie is
21:15 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm tired of being manipulated.
21:17 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_03]: He says, manipulators are sneaky.
21:21 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm obvious.
21:23 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_06]: And that's kind of the microcosm of the story.
21:29 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_06]: He's so clearly a con man that you almost think, well, anyone who's duped by this guy really, really wants to be duped.
21:41 --> 21:43 [SPEAKER_06]: They want their playing along or
21:45 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_06]: They just enjoy being around the personality, or they believe that God is doing something through this charlatan, so who cares if it's a charlatan?
21:55 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Because ultimately God's gonna do something in your life.
21:58 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_06]: So how can you really blame this guy?
22:02 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_06]: They don't quite ever make him sympathetic.
22:07 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_06]: Even the story about like his mom leaving him as a child,
22:12 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, that doesn't, that really doesn't make me feel sorry for him.
22:17 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_06]: Because he ends up leaving the child.
22:21 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
22:21 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's the thing is they doesn't.
22:24 --> 22:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So, but in that's the thing is I feel like there's, whether it's intentional or not, there is, there's an attempt, you know, it feels like, okay, well, let's, I feel like a nowadays, I think we do a little bit better with this anti-hero narrative, maybe.
22:42 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And and that's and that's the issue right is like if he's you have a guy who you try to make sympathetic by saying he was left as a child and eventually leaves a child behind but in his mind it's for their own good which might suggest that that's what his mother leaving him was like maybe maybe there's more to that right so but we're kind of left with that going like maybe we can think that maybe we don't the movie does not particularly interested in that it seems.
23:10 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's
23:12 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_01]: There's, there's a Jonas Nightingale story to be told, but I think we get distracted by the Debra Winger, Liam Neeson Butterfly sublot.
23:22 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just the worst.
23:24 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:25 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's part of this problem, right?
23:26 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_01]: This movie doesn't.
23:27 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can have a, I think you need the foil that's trying to expose him and it doesn't matter, because I think that's actually a very, you know,
23:41 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like a very pertinent thing today, right?
23:46 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there are some people that are just going to follow somebody regardless of the evidence to suggest they shouldn't.
23:52 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's good.
23:53 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a question about that.
23:55 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_06]: These, the choir who's traveling with them, the angels.
24:00 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_06]: So at one point during the cop scene, meatloaf turns around, by the way, meatloaf is in this movie.
24:07 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_06]: Underutilized meatloaf.
24:10 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, meatloaf is just meatloaf for meatloaf sake.
24:16 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Meatloaf turns around.
24:18 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_06]: And I guess omilia.
24:21 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_06]: played by Dolores Hall.
24:23 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_01]: There's an alternate universe where where people just don't accept the fact that we just said me love turns around.
24:34 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_06]: And he says, where are your loyalties?
24:36 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_06]: And it's sort of like a really quick thing.
24:38 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_06]: You could almost miss it.
24:40 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Where's Amelia's loyalties?
24:42 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_06]: And she points heaven word, right?
24:45 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_06]: So she's like, I don't, I don't.
24:47 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not putting my faith in this con man.
24:49 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_06]: I have no loyalty to this con man.
24:53 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm still a believer.
24:55 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_06]: And so I'm wondering how many of these choir folks are actually on to him?
25:04 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_06]: Like they have to know, right?
25:07 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's, so that has to know he's a con man.
25:10 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: That's been a problem for me in the last few times.
25:11 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I've watched it because there are multiple shots throughout the movie where they
25:18 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_01]: but you have this sort of like maybe not front and center, but you clearly one of the choir members gives like a look like, well, what's going on here?
25:26 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's multiple times of that that suggest that that this choir is not on to him or some members are not on to him?
25:36 --> 25:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Which, I mean, at one point one of the women in the choir was like, that's not, he told me his father invented Teflon.
25:43 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
25:44 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the thing that I'm so again, this is what the movie is constantly teasing these concepts, but not delivering on any of them because there's an interesting movie there.
25:55 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_01]: If you, like I said, you could do a movie about people that are like, oh, I didn't realize I've we've been traveling with the conman the whole time.
26:01 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a discovery point.
26:02 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_01]: There's an interesting element, right?
26:05 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But you left that on the table if that's what you were trying to tell.
26:10 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
26:10 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_01]: You suddenly hinted towards an interesting thing and then you instead went to clapping for butterflies.
26:16 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I just don't.
26:17 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the choices, like I said, that's the choices that were made versus the ones that were ignored or are kind of the problem, right?
26:25 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And
26:28 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, why does he jog with his midriff showing?
26:30 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I need to know this.
26:34 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_06]: I want to call it, all right.
26:34 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_06]: So let's, let's describe this.
26:37 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, he jogs.
26:40 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, which is not like, you know, it's not a given in ninety two, like, you could jog or you, you know, that's not, you don't need to jog.
26:50 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Well, like everyone jogs.
26:51 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_06]: It's not like, it's not against the law not to jog.
26:55 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_06]: He prefers to jog with a leather black cowboy hat.
27:02 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Jeans.
27:03 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_06]: He says he used to jog in his cowboy boots and inexplicably have shirt.
27:11 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
27:12 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_06]: So he, he's like a member of the village people when he jogs.
27:20 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_01]: This is bothered me since nineteen ninety two when I saw this in the theater.
27:25 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's a deleted scene somewhere where he's like, is this the only shirt you have?
27:29 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, the hat itself is a choice.
27:35 --> 27:39 [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the, add the teach.
27:39 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't understand.
27:42 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so the thing it's so going back to this, this Jonas night and girl character, right?
27:45 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you, you're right, the movie.
27:49 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Fundamentally in the beginning, the movie is very, it's very good.
27:53 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It does exactly what you would want, and we'll be like this to do to set so much of the table, right?
27:58 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't harness these things a little bit.
28:00 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And the problem that I have is that I feel like he doesn't con enough.
28:07 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It almost is like, well, just that this movie might have maybe too much disdain for these sort of like traveling, like maybe religion is a whole that it
28:19 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: thinks that it's just it's just the very fact that the guy is a faith healer is enough to suggest he's a con artist and I mean there are some things that obviously some some like they're pulling these grips they're they're you know collecting information and they're delivering the information via your personal stuff that's fine like I think that's but I feel like for some reason still it wasn't enough right like I wanted.
28:39 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to even more, and I want to see it.
28:41 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, on top of that, maybe not just on stage, but like everywhere I want to see this.
28:45 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, on top of that, he's, uh, he's not great when you, when a dish up, like for me, the movie turns when he decides he's going to stomp on his mother's wristwatch to flirt with a girl, like, what are you doing?
29:02 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, right.
29:03 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_06]: At that point, I thought this makes zero sense.
29:06 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_06]: This guy's supposed to be smart.
29:09 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_06]: smart enough to be smarter than the people he's conning.
29:13 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_06]: And he throws his mother's wristwatch on the ground and smashes it for no reason.
29:20 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_06]: And he thinks that this is going to sort of win him points with the girl he's trying to romance.
29:26 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_06]: It makes no sense at all.
29:28 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_06]: And then afterwards, he grabs another watch out of the bag of watches.
29:33 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_06]: And it's Deborah Winger who asked to tell him, dude, this is a small town.
29:36 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_06]: But that watch is busted.
29:39 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_06]: You cannot put on another watch.
29:42 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_06]: People are gonna notice.
29:43 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_06]: So he's not good at it.
29:45 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
29:46 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_06]: Also the stupid scene with the, the, the, the squirt gun, like, he's not great at close up magic.
29:55 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_06]: No.
29:57 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_06]: It fools everyone, but I don't feel like his audience is maybe the sharpest.
30:05 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's the thing.
30:06 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_01]: The smartest men in the room as long as the room is full of dumb people.
30:10 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_06]: So he's not great at being a connerist.
30:14 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_06]: And maybe this goes to the point.
30:15 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_06]: He's got a great outside shot.
30:18 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, God.
30:21 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, that was my trip.
30:23 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_06]: I'll ask you know, is there a trope of cliche or device you liked this movie?
30:26 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_06]: Mine was white guy walks onto a basketball court makes a bet or an agreement based on a single outside shot.
30:38 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Sinks the shot and everyone's amazed like no one no one's guarding him.
30:45 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_06]: But everyone's amazed that he hit this shot.
30:48 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I don't know, that to my very trophy, very trophy.
30:55 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have a trope of cliche advice?
31:00 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I do, I love, I love a choir rehearsing on the side of a road.
31:07 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Just rehears anywhere.
31:09 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
31:10 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just any type of rehearsing.
31:12 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, this,
31:14 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree with the, um, with the, uh, the watch scene.
31:20 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like again, again, this movie is like, what do you,
31:24 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_06]: What are you doing?
31:28 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Why would this attract anyone?
31:30 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I guess it doesn't work.
31:31 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_06]: She's not impressed by it.
31:33 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_06]: Amelia thinks that it's amazing that the watch went in the water because it's like it's baptized.
31:40 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Is she playing along with the con or she really impressed?
31:43 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't write that and that's another part of that scene where I'm like, are they all grifting with him or are they believing in him?
31:51 --> 32:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And if they believe in him then it like that creates a question for me is like there's nothing about their activity on the bus suggest like that's not under like wraps it's it's clear what they're doing all the time in front of everybody that's on the on the road.
32:06 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So if they're if they're becoming disenchanted with them like are they hired like that was the thing is like is this a brand new group that was just hired you know.
32:15 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, maybe that's what it is.
32:16 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_06]: And they're like, yeah, to get a different group of angels every two months so that no one really knows who he is.
32:24 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
32:24 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can explain that, maybe do that.
32:26 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's a, if you cut out, it's not a very long movie.
32:30 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_01]: But there is a lot of slack that if you cut and choose to put some other elements in, like, like, give me these people, like, I'd like to know, give me all of their backgrounds, you know, and give me a little something to these that I'd love to find out.
32:44 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can do it.
32:44 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_01]: You can give us backgrounds on each one of these people.
32:46 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_01]: The sheriff can do that.
32:48 --> 32:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the sheriff, you can, you can have an expositional type moment where the sheriff is pulling up all of these people's rap sheets where they come from.
32:55 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, instead of just Jonas Nightingale and showing everybody and I think there's a, and there's a compelling movie there if you have all of this on the table and then he's able to still convince people that, because I mean, I feel like even like the charges weren't that big of a deal.
33:12 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, he smoked marijuana and he stole a car.
33:15 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I think you needed to be a little bit more bad.
33:20 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I feel like, because I feel like that wasn't enough.
33:24 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there was always that, and I think that's the kind of the critique on the whole movie as a whole.
33:29 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, everything just wasn't quite enough.
33:31 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, make him, make him worse.
33:32 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Cause they need to see that.
33:34 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_06]: If he is a good con artist, I think that you, you would expect him to use at least,
33:40 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_06]: a kernel of the truth to do his con, right?
33:45 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_06]: So tell that story, you know, tell that story that the first night you're there, I used to be a center.
33:52 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_06]: And Jesus saved me or something like that.
33:54 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_06]: So the sheriff has no leg to stand on.
33:56 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_06]: I honestly, I don't believe anything about this sheriff.
34:01 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_06]: I think the sheriff's the biggest con man in the entire movie.
34:06 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_01]: How did he get elected?
34:08 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
34:08 --> 34:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't accept in rust water.
34:11 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Liam Neeson.
34:13 --> 34:17 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I would even buy the accent because it's not like he's trying to put on a Southern accent or whatever.
34:18 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
34:18 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
34:18 --> 34:27 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, look, maybe he is from Ireland and he just, he just happened to find himself in rust water Kansas or wherever this is.
34:27 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_06]: As one does when they're visiting America.
34:32 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_06]: He's hell bent on exposing this preacher as a charlatan.
34:37 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_06]: He doesn't want to give them a permit because of the town's unemployment.
34:44 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, dude, you're not the mayor.
34:46 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_06]: And I don't believe this thing with Deborah Wing or either.
34:51 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, they fall in love because why?
34:52 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
34:55 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_06]: Everything about this sheriff.
34:57 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he has this.
34:58 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So here's the thing.
34:59 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_01]: There's, and right there is another better move.
35:03 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:03 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You, you introduce a sheriff who
35:07 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_01]: is imposing himself as the moral compass for this town.
35:13 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_01]: He's acting on behalf of this town as if to say they don't know any better.
35:17 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to take care of it.
35:18 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's where these two could be at odds, right?
35:20 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You could make that interesting.
35:22 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And you could have Jonas Knight and get even point that out to the sheriff and make that relationship complicated.
35:29 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But they don't.
35:30 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's all of these seeds are planted and none of them are watered.
35:35 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_06]: All right, so if there's one tweak that you could make, there's probably a ton of tweaks, but if there's one, I think a better director changes this entire movie.
35:43 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting.
35:43 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_06]: All right, I think, because I was doing a little bit of research, they considered Michael Keaton for this idea.
35:50 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That was the other one I was going to discuss to.
35:53 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_06]: I think Michael Keaton hits the set of the park.
35:57 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he does with this director.
36:00 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where I stand by the director.
36:02 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this issue is at its core, this movie is either introducing topics that are more interesting and not delivering or they're accidentally introducing things.
36:15 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they didn't even know that they had something going on here.
36:18 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_06]: Michael Keaton is just a much better actor, number one.
36:23 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_06]: Number two, I think he could do the physical stage thing better than, I mean, there, in terms of preaching, Steve Martin is like a B, which is possible, right?
36:38 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_06]: In terms of his choreography on stage, he's like a D minus.
36:45 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_06]: He looks comical up there, which of course he is, he's a comic, right?
36:51 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, I think another actor, Michael Keaton, could do that sort of gritty, cynical, you know, more CD part, but also be believable, because he's pretty charismatic as well.
37:06 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_06]: I think that would have improved this quite a bit.
37:10 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it almost seems as though, like I think from a research perspective, like I wonder how much
37:19 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, the Steve Martin was just like, hey man, I know what these guys are like.
37:22 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I see the Jimmy Swagger.
37:23 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It's I see these guys.
37:24 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, I know what you're going for.
37:27 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there would have been a benefit to go to something like this.
37:31 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like where you find a Benny hand type situation.
37:35 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Also go to a very sincere churches muted search.
37:39 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_06]: Like is this movie better with an all black cast?
37:43 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_06]: I think it is.
37:45 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_06]: and an all white choir.
37:47 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_06]: And explicitly, just a death metal choir.
37:52 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_06]: No, I think like someone like Denzel, someone like someone like, you know, someone like Lawrence Fishburn or something like that, Deborah Winger's, you know, I think she's a little bit... And Lawrence Fishburn is playing the Deborah Winger part.
38:07 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_06]: I think this is a much more interesting story.
38:10 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's an Eddie Murphy do this better.
38:13 --> 38:14 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, he's perfect.
38:15 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_06]: We just solved it.
38:17 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_06]: This is an Eddie Murphy part and I think it isn't Keaton.
38:22 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_06]: He's probably already making the next Batman movie at this point, right?
38:27 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Ninety two, I believe so.
38:28 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
38:29 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
38:30 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's probably got Batman conflicts and
38:34 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I can't imagine the Steve Martin's chief, but I bet your Michael Keaton was getting pretty expensive.
38:39 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_06]: I think he, at this point, you can't afford him.
38:46 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_06]: I think that, what is Eddie, Eddie Murphy's kind of on a downturn at this point, right?
38:53 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll see, ninety two.
38:55 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would think that this is sort of just getting into that in between phase form.
39:02 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is.
39:03 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_01]: because uh... ninety two or ninety two is he's starting as come back ninety two is when he makes boomerang and this thing was gentleman so this would have actually been like a perfect time right so i think i think i think i mean like i think from he because it can come into america comes out in eighty eight and then Harlem night's bombs another forty eight hours bombs and he was just sort of like kind of mailing it in and then uh... boomerang is like uh... this he seems to be back yeah i think if this was like uh...
39:33 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_06]: Eddie Murphy will be Goldberg.
39:35 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_06]: This is a much better movie.
39:37 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_06]: We're soundtrack ever, right?
39:40 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_06]: They chose a Don Henley song that is just horrible.
40:12 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_06]: And then you've got the meatloaf.
40:14 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Meatloafs in the movie, which is I tend to like that.
40:17 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_06]: You've got meatloaf in the movie.
40:19 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_06]: Why not use a meatloaf song?
40:20 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not a huge meatloaf guy.
40:22 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_06]: Like so it didn't help.
40:27 --> 40:27 [SPEAKER_06]: Ten hell.
40:28 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_06]: The guy, if you like gospel music, sister acts probably better, but you know, this is, this is okay.
40:34 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_06]: This is all right.
40:37 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, again, I think it's just a little, it's just off like every, every moment is just a little off.
40:45 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the performances will be like again, with the Steve Martin, like if you're going to play up the, the, the preacher performance comically,
40:53 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Then just have that be kind of throughout and then have his sinister turns be the moments where you're like, oh, there's something else lurking here.
40:59 --> 41:01 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's right.
41:01 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_01]: But like his regular persona, it's a little unclear what his motivations are.
41:08 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, why does he choose to be somewhat sympathetic towards this kid, you know, like shielding him from his con.
41:19 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a moment where you're like, okay, well, what is this about?
41:21 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it never really delivers on it, right?
41:23 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, there are lines in this movie like when you were talking about like the whole manipulator that he's obvious.
41:29 --> 41:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And like he's like, you're saying your fake's all I know I'm a fake.
41:32 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, they still gets the job done with differences with make.
41:35 --> 41:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it makes all the difference in the world.
41:36 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, these are interesting statements do something with it.
41:39 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
41:40 --> 41:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's, because I think that's like, he, he, when he tells the sheriff basically like, look, I'm putting on a show, you know, and when they were saying like,
41:48 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_01]: like they want to give their money for a show that's fine, who cares?
41:51 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's a compelling concept when juxtaposed to people that aren't, they don't think it's a show, right?
42:01 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of like, you know, you find that with like certain, you know, talking heads on new stations, you know, regardless whether it's Fox or CNN and it's like because they're on a new station people assume that it's news as opposed to entertainment.
42:17 --> 42:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And then other times it would be very clear, like, no, we're just, we're just entertainers.
42:20 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_01]: We're just, you know, this is just opinion, but if you're not like for a long time, people didn't, you know, there were certain conservatives that didn't realize that Colbert's, you know, parody of a conservative was a parody.
42:32 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they then they feel like really betrayed because like, yeah, but he never asked you to believe him.
42:37 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he kind of, this character, Jonas nine Gail is sort of, you know, keeping himself
42:43 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_01]: protected by this notion of honesty when pinned down.
42:48 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But even that's interesting.
42:51 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_06]: I've got a lot of experience with this world.
42:54 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_06]: And it turns out that people who sort of find themselves in the role of the faith healer, they start to believe it.
43:08 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_06]: They start to believe their own scams.
43:12 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, you know, I know a guy who believed that he had the power to heal and he tried to heal my ears and when he didn't, when it didn't work, he was mad at me.
43:27 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But he's not wrong.
43:29 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He just sat and like, he's like, he really wants to do it.
43:32 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_06]: He didn't know why to be mad at you, but being mad at you is the right decision.
43:37 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't, like, it was, I was like, I don't know.
43:41 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like,
43:43 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He really was like, adamant.
43:45 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was like, well, this means a lot to him.
43:48 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll, I'll, you know, let it let him do it, you know, most likely not that nothing's going to happen, but, you know, I leave the door open for something, you know, to be surprised by joy, I guess.
44:03 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_01]: He just sat there and he was all about it and saying, like, don't, man, do you feel like you feel warm?
44:09 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, I mean, other than the fact that you're like your hands on my head.
44:15 --> 44:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And he just kept insisting and then he was praying about it and then he's like, all right, is everything louder?
44:22 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, but I really appreciate you going through the effort.
44:27 --> 44:32 [SPEAKER_06]: You're like, man, you're like, I don't think I'm gonna work with this particular part of the narrative.
44:33 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but I could be a Bible Blanker if if that would help.
44:40 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_06]: I, I'm a religious scholar by trade.
44:43 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_06]: I've never heard the word Bible Blanker and I feel like there's like there's definitely a blind spot in my research.
44:51 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_06]: I want to know more about these Bible Blankers.
44:57 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So I watched this my daughter watched it with me.
45:02 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, just because she's been polite.
45:05 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, man, when William needs and claps, the butterflies, she's just, she, uh, audibly laughs and just goes, why?
45:14 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Why?
45:14 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, not like there was nothing else, like it was just why.
45:17 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's such a great, a great question for that particular moment.
45:22 --> 45:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I, and I, and I didn't, and that's where, and I think there's a lot, like there are enough scenes in this movie where you go, why?
45:29 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Why that?
45:30 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Why do you do that?
45:32 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_01]: because I'm interested in, I'm actually interested in some of these things that you've introduced, but then, but like, because I don't, it's not even, I don't understand why Liam Neeson would be interested in Debra Winger.
45:49 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it runs contrary to this character that they apparently have put out there, so I don't understand that.
45:55 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't, I mean, I couldn't imagine carrying less about any other sublime.
46:03 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_01]: like that is the least interesting stuff.
46:05 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to get it.
46:06 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't, I don't understand what the appeal, like Deborah Winner's, you know, she's attractive.
46:13 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_06]: But everything else about this guy is like, I can't stand con artist and these people deserve better and you are doing something immoral.
46:22 --> 46:25 [SPEAKER_06]: And oh, by the way, I want to marry you after three days.
46:26 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
46:27 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_06]: Who, who are you?
46:29 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_06]: And why, why do you live in rust water?
46:32 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_06]: He's built, he's built like a Greek god, so there's that.
46:37 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_06]: He's totally out of place in this movie.
46:39 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think, again, there's an introduction of a notion where, you know, Jonas Nightingale is, we don't see any, like romantic leanings between him and the Debra Wing character, which I think is important.
46:59 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's good, but he is,
47:02 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_01]: try he tries to control her and he has tried to keep her with him like and it's not paternal and it's not romantic but it is a power play that's interesting but they don't like they introduce it but they don't do anything with it like I understand it maybe that's why you've got this maybe potential love thing going on with this Liam Neeson share but you could do that in another way you can introduce that that like
47:31 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Jonas Knight and Gail needs to be the center of this movie.
47:35 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And he isn't at the same time.
47:37 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_06]: It's interesting that they chose to, like, you almost are rooting for Steve Martin and Deborah Winger to find each other.
47:48 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, there is a little bit of chemistry between them.
47:54 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_06]: And they go a completely different direction.
47:58 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_06]: And he gives her a ruby ring at the end.
48:00 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand why.
48:01 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's like, yes, that's been like a running thing that she wants that ring and so eventually gives it to her and I keep it from her.
48:09 --> 48:14 [SPEAKER_01]: As like a power play right that's kind of how I interpret it like like.
48:15 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, give her the ring.
48:16 --> 48:19 [SPEAKER_06]: But he's like, no, I mean, I guess it makes the movie interesting.
48:19 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I guess it would be pretty trophy if he finally found love at the end with Deborah Winger.
48:24 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_06]: But I don't understand the way that they ended it.
48:26 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_06]: So let's talk about the ending.
48:28 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
48:28 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
48:30 --> 48:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
48:32 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_06]: So something really touches the nerve with him.
48:36 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_06]: He sees a real miracle.
48:39 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_06]: He doesn't really know what to do with it.
48:42 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_06]: He actually has a pretty honest conversation with the kid.
48:47 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_06]: The kid doesn't care that he's a charlatan.
48:51 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_06]: He just knows he's been healed.
48:54 --> 48:59 [SPEAKER_06]: And he wants to go on the road with him, right?
48:59 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_06]: Which is exactly what everyone on the bus wants because they think that they can pull, you know, seven figures and Dallas if they if they got this kid.
49:08 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_06]: He
49:14 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_06]: Guess he's in his feelings, he lies, says he's going to get the kid.
49:17 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_06]: He doesn't start hitchhiking, depends a call of Florida.
49:22 --> 49:28 [SPEAKER_06]: And then it starts raining, which you, you know, sort of, everyone's been praying for rain the whole time.
49:28 --> 49:31 [SPEAKER_06]: They want it to rain so they can save their little town.
49:32 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_06]: And it starts raining and all of a sudden he has some kind of
49:39 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_06]: Jewels wouldn't feel moment where he feels the touch of God on the road to Pensacola.
49:46 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_06]: But he drives away.
49:47 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_06]: He drives out of town.
49:49 --> 49:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Am I supposed to be happy about this?
49:52 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_06]: He saw the rain and he's happy about it.
49:55 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_06]: Now he's no longer a faith healer.
49:56 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Is that what the story is trying to tell me?
49:59 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_06]: What happens with the rest of these people that he just left in the lurch?
50:04 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_06]: All the members of his team
50:06 --> 50:08 [SPEAKER_06]: What happens with Deborah Winger?
50:09 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_06]: What happens with this kid the next day?
50:10 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what to do with the end of this movie.
50:15 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So let me do for this, what I do for things like Howard the Duck and Teen Wolf.
50:22 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me try to advocate for this movie.
50:29 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Just because I've seen it so much and there we go.
50:33 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So he leaves
50:36 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He has the he sees a miracle and I think there's probably this element of like, wow, maybe this is real and I and he's like, I and I don't know what to do with this either either I continue to to pull this grip, you know, and the kid is like, hey, I don't care if you're fake because on one hand, you can say, okay, the kid is enamored with this guy, but at the same time he's like, look, I've been healed.
51:02 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So you may think you're a fake, but
51:06 --> 51:35 [SPEAKER_01]: God you're using you so I want to be around I need if I want to be around God I think I need to be around you Whether you are you know whether you're aware of it or not you're a vessel ever you know you've been chosen that way so I'm I'm gonna go you bring hope to people you bring you know you bring in inadvertent healing perhaps so you know Whatever the real whatever the reason God God uses you I'm gonna I want to be a part of that so that's that's why I think maybe you could justify that that's where the kids come from
51:37 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And at this point, you know, Jonah's not in Gail's been like, hey, you know, I've been, I've been a fake the whole time and I've been honest about it.
51:44 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And if God's, I don't, that's what I'm comfortable with.
51:48 --> 51:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm comfortable with being a fake.
51:50 --> 51:53 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, you know, he's telling this guy, you're the genuine article, you're the real deal basically.
51:54 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, look, I will know what to do with you.
51:56 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a con man at heart.
51:58 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't do miracles.
52:01 --> 52:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't surround myself with miracles because that makes no sense to me.
52:06 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_01]: this makes sense to me.
52:07 --> 52:10 [SPEAKER_01]: So I got, so I, you know, God is here.
52:11 --> 52:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to leave here and you've all been touched by God.
52:14 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to, I'm going to let go away.
52:17 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And whether he is, and I don't necessarily buy that he was leaving to go like, well, I'm just got to, you know, make up, you know, I got to do the right thing.
52:26 --> 52:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he doesn't know what the right thing is.
52:28 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I'm the best thing for these people is I'm not around them and the best thing for me is to just get away.
52:35 --> 52:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And on the way out, he sees, and I don't think he's happy with God.
52:39 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he feels like, wow, what an incredible thing.
52:45 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can make the argument that as he leaves and as the rain comes down, he realizes that God is blessing that town now that he's left it.
52:56 --> 52:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So he sees
53:01 --> 53:06 [SPEAKER_01]: his leaving as maybe a like the rain is sort of validates his decision.
53:07 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, wow, you so the rain is there.
53:10 --> 53:13 [SPEAKER_01]: He's leaving and he's like, good, God, you stay there.
53:14 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going here.
53:19 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_06]: It's interesting, okay, if that's true, and maybe maybe it is the best thing for this town from belief.
53:26 --> 53:34 [SPEAKER_06]: And I could get on board with him leaving is the best thing for everyone.
53:34 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think he's done Connie.
53:37 --> 53:40 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I think he's just gonna content to cola.
53:42 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's gonna... Well, he can con, and he doesn't necessarily, but he doesn't have to con as an evangelist.
53:49 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_01]: either.
53:49 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I don't know if he's done with that either.
53:51 --> 54:04 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know that this story has told me enough to tell me that he's not just gonna pick up in some of their town and pull the same con that he's been pulling.
54:04 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I think a better movie shows him like, you know, five months later, doing the same thing on a much smaller scale, but with a different view point because he could be at this point believing it's like,
54:16 --> 54:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, God used me.
54:18 --> 54:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually do believe in God.
54:19 --> 54:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And now he's empowered in a different way.
54:20 --> 54:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead of it being like, well, I know I'm fake.
54:24 --> 54:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Now he might believe that he's got something going on.
54:27 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And that could make him even more sinister, right?
54:30 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the part where, you know, if you want to do critiques on some of these, you know, mega church pastors or faith healers, it's like, and going back to what we were talking about earlier, it's like, if you believe you can do it,
54:47 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That's somehow even more, that could open the door for even more conning, right?
54:52 --> 55:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Because now you're coming by it from with like with a certain level of earnestness and you feel like you've got got on your side as opposed to your own intellect.
55:04 --> 55:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And that can be a real dangerous spot to be in if you're still drifting.
55:09 --> 55:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a more interesting story, right?
55:10 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Do that.
55:12 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think so.
55:14 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_06]: I think so too.
55:15 --> 55:17 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm kind of curious.
55:17 --> 55:19 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm kind of curious what happens the next day.
55:20 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, is it like this Philips theme more Hoffman's like sort of step into the preacher role?
55:27 --> 55:32 [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, does the kid basically do the same graft over and over and over with the kid, you know?
55:34 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_01]: How about a movie where, how about a sequel where the, the kid is now,
55:42 --> 55:47 [SPEAKER_01]: older and he's basically taken on the Jonas Nightingale persona.
55:49 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, if you want to make this hyper realistic, because I've seen this a lot, is that the kid
55:56 --> 56:00 [SPEAKER_06]: is going to relapse and he's going to be on crutches again, like two days.
56:02 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_06]: There is something I don't know, there's something psychosomatic about these experiences where you have the experience and the warm glow goes away and all of a sudden you're back where you started and it causes a lot of consternation for a lot of people.
56:25 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I do want to talk about Philipsy more often.
56:27 --> 56:29 [SPEAKER_06]: So that's who brought us here, right?
56:30 --> 56:34 [SPEAKER_06]: To say underutilized is sort of a understatement.
56:36 --> 56:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I think I think he else he could be the better lead in this movie.
56:42 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_06]: If given the given the right, uh, the right script, he would be a very interesting lead in this movie.
56:50 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, it did not need to be fulfilled.
56:52 --> 56:54 [SPEAKER_06]: So you see more Hoffman to have this particular part.
56:56 --> 56:59 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you uh, or he's not Philipsy more Hoffman yet.
56:59 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_06]: He's not Philipsy more Hoffman yet.
57:02 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think is like one of his first like films.
57:05 --> 57:05 [SPEAKER_06]: It's weird.
57:05 --> 57:15 [SPEAKER_06]: It's weird with this because sometimes with a actor of that caliber, like, all right, so he's not Philipsy more Hoffman yet, but you I can see the early potential.
57:16 --> 57:19 [SPEAKER_06]: Sometimes you get that and I don't get that in this movie.
57:20 --> 57:21 [SPEAKER_06]: No.
57:21 --> 57:25 [SPEAKER_06]: Do you like, in general, are you a fan of Philips?
57:27 --> 57:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I say yes.
57:28 --> 57:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I find him.
57:29 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I like him when he's menacing.
57:31 --> 57:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he can be very funny when he's being ridiculous.
57:38 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the time, I like him.
57:43 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, sometimes I find a very impressive
57:46 --> 57:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But he's so bad in Twister.
57:49 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I was thinking about that movie, I was thinking, this has a lot in common with Twister.
57:55 --> 58:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Like you got a team of people with Philipsy more often.
58:01 --> 58:02 [SPEAKER_06]: I have a little bit of noxious West.
58:04 --> 58:05 [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely up noxious.
58:06 --> 58:09 [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's amazing in buggy nights.
58:10 --> 58:15 [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's one of the things that I'm most look forward to in Big Lebowski.
58:16 --> 58:16 [SPEAKER_06]: for sure.
58:17 --> 58:25 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, you know, I, he's, I think he's perfect for a punchunk love.
58:27 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you know, he's been in a lot of sort of gritty or crime drama.
58:30 --> 58:31 [SPEAKER_06]: It's great and money ball.
58:32 --> 58:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, oh, yeah.
58:34 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's, uh, top shelf in the master.
58:39 --> 58:41 [SPEAKER_06]: The thing he won the Oscar for is Capote, right?
58:42 --> 58:42 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
58:43 --> 58:44 [SPEAKER_06]: Didn't like it.
58:45 --> 58:47 [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't like it, it didn't like him.
58:48 --> 58:50 [SPEAKER_06]: And it was, it was an accent thing.
58:50 --> 58:54 [SPEAKER_06]: It was like, but I like Phillips, he more often.
58:54 --> 59:02 [SPEAKER_06]: And you, you, it's a little bit like, you know, sometimes you criticize actors who always play themselves like Denzel or whatever.
59:04 --> 59:05 [SPEAKER_06]: But I would be disappointed.
59:07 --> 59:12 [SPEAKER_06]: If Denzel came in and he was like, the lead and radio or whatever, I would be very disappointed.
59:20 --> 59:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Man of times that we off-handedly just take a dump on radio.
59:27 --> 59:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Almost feels like we owe it to our listeners to cover radio on.
59:35 --> 59:36 [SPEAKER_06]: I will not show up.
59:38 --> 59:41 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not just bringing this.
59:41 --> 59:42 [SPEAKER_06]: It'll be my son.
59:42 --> 59:45 [SPEAKER_06]: It'll be like, yeah, my dad said I had to talk with you for an hour.
59:48 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_06]: What are we talking about?
59:54 --> 59:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
59:55 --> 59:56 [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, all right.
59:56 --> 59:57 [SPEAKER_06]: Is this movie better?
59:57 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Where's your own part of the Ron Howard movie?
59:59 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Man, could you imagine how much where this movie is if Ron writes?
01:00:02 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's the whole time I'm the whole time I'm thinking about it.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And like Ron Howard would get this.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Ron Howard would this is such this is would be such a great Ron Howard movie like this is one of those ones where like we keep on like people like I think don't real know for like you guys like Ron Howard I would want this movie with Ron Howard I think I think I think he knocks it out of the park.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he gets to be the best performance.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think that most movies would be improved with Ron Howard right
01:00:30 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and this is one of those movies.
01:00:33 --> 01:00:34 [SPEAKER_06]: It's not really a genre flick.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:38 [SPEAKER_06]: It's kind of a unique in a few ways.
01:00:39 --> 01:00:47 [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I can think of a few, what was the devol movie where he was a, what's that?
01:00:48 --> 01:00:51 [SPEAKER_06]: The apostle, the apostle has some DNA here.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:58 [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely, you know, darker, more dramatic tone in that film.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Howard would hit this out of the park.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:23 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so this becomes I think like I mean it's like gotta be like a Howard like minus like six maybe I mean I yeah, I was gonna say five I think Howard does a lot better with this I still think Steve for whatever reason Steve Martin is does well and just isn't the right person for this well, and that's why I think I think a director like
01:01:24 --> 01:01:34 [SPEAKER_01]: If a director's not really, uh, yeah, I have no idea about the director, but my, my gut tells me that like there's a reason why there wasn't much more cinematically from this person.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a director with a little more gravitas can sit there and say, don't hammer up right now, bring it down a notch or yeah, and that do your thing, but like not like a Steve Martin thing, do it like this, you know what I mean?
01:01:48 --> 01:01:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in this case, I could see the director being like, dude, I got Steve Martin.
01:01:52 --> 01:01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna let Steve Martin just Steve Martin right there.
01:01:54 --> 01:01:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And what do you want me to do in this scene?
01:01:56 --> 01:01:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I just go up there and just mock a faith dealer.
01:01:59 --> 01:01:59 [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of what it feels like.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It reminds me when I would see Robin Williams pretend to be a faith dealer when you riffing or something like that.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of just a one-dimensional swipe at the surface of what this character is.
01:02:12 --> 01:02:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I want more than that.
01:02:13 --> 01:02:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Because if it's so goofy, then I don't buy that they're buying it.
01:02:19 --> 01:02:21 [SPEAKER_06]: So you're a stamp comic.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:23 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm kind of a student of the history comedy.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:30 [SPEAKER_06]: I never like Steve Barnes stand up and I think it just missed me.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:33 [SPEAKER_06]: It like, like, just maybe missed me by a decade.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It was probably a little more oldy at the time, but like not like, like crazy, old, but like it's a little unconventional, a little more performative.
01:02:45 --> 01:03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think if you wait, I think Steve Martin's stand up is more appreciated conceptually now than maybe it would be enjoyed like to re-watch if that makes any sense because I think at the time, do you ever have like Steve Martin records that you listen to?
01:03:04 --> 01:03:04 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:07 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, neither did that.
01:03:07 --> 01:03:14 [SPEAKER_01]: His stuff would show up on like Dr. Demento and I would always be like, oh cool, Steve Martin and I would respect it more than I would be like,
01:03:15 --> 01:03:18 [SPEAKER_01]: enthralled by it because I think what he was doing was something different.
01:03:18 --> 01:03:20 [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, he was a little bit.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:29 [SPEAKER_06]: He wasn't so bizarre that he was like an Andy Kaufman kind of guy because it was almost like the audience.
01:03:29 --> 01:03:30 [SPEAKER_06]: Very similar to this movie.
01:03:31 --> 01:03:36 [SPEAKER_06]: The audience knew that he was playing a part and they were in on the joke.
01:03:37 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_06]: right, but you know, when he would play like Mr. arrogant, you know, celebrity guy who's only interested in money, it was like, yeah, there's probably a kernel of truth there, but he's made it, so he's made it kind of a caricature of that, and everyone kind of was in on the joke.
01:03:57 --> 01:04:00 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if you've tried to watch Steve Martin recently.
01:04:01 --> 01:04:03 [SPEAKER_06]: I just, I don't think it holds up.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:14 [SPEAKER_06]: And I think it's because we've had a ton of other people who have followed suit with what he was doing and improved upon it.
01:04:15 --> 01:04:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You probably feel about Steve Martin the same way I feel about the Beatles.
01:04:19 --> 01:04:20 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
01:04:20 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_06]: You appreciate that they change music forever.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:25 [SPEAKER_06]: You're not yourself a big fan.
01:04:26 --> 01:04:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:04:26 --> 01:04:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, yeah, great.
01:04:28 --> 01:04:30 [SPEAKER_01]: You paved the way for the people and I, I'm avert.
01:04:31 --> 01:04:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, interesting.
01:04:32 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And that isn't to say that I don't like some of their stuff.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:39 [SPEAKER_01]: The same way I kind of, you know, I could probably maybe that same argument about Steve Martin.
01:04:40 --> 01:04:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Steve Martin, it was, again, there wasn't the oversaturation of comedy.
01:04:45 --> 01:04:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He was kind of like, I think maybe embodied sort of the seventies culture in a lot of ways.
01:04:52 --> 01:04:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And there was almost an irreverence
01:04:56 --> 01:05:01 [SPEAKER_01]: in the performance to the performance itself, like it wasn't following some of the rules.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he was super charismatic, big smile, like everything, and then like in cocky, but like not Chevy Chase cocky.
01:05:13 --> 01:05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So there was a lot, like he's he's kind of a movie star in a lot of ways, right?
01:05:17 --> 01:05:22 [SPEAKER_06]: For a time, he was one of the biggest drawing actors in Hollywood.
01:05:22 --> 01:05:23 [SPEAKER_06]: I loved him.
01:05:24 --> 01:05:25 [SPEAKER_06]: for a lot of movies.
01:05:25 --> 01:05:27 [SPEAKER_06]: I love Tim and Roxanne.
01:05:27 --> 01:05:28 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm movie that I don't think holds up.
01:05:28 --> 01:05:30 [SPEAKER_06]: I love Tim in the three Amigos.
01:05:31 --> 01:05:32 [SPEAKER_06]: I love him in LA story.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:35 [SPEAKER_06]: You know, there's just a ton of these movies.
01:05:36 --> 01:05:38 [SPEAKER_06]: Parenthood is a great example.
01:05:38 --> 01:05:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Parenthood is great.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the jerk.
01:05:42 --> 01:05:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He's, you know, I love three Amigos.
01:05:44 --> 01:05:46 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, but see here's the thing with three Amigos.
01:05:46 --> 01:05:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
01:05:47 --> 01:05:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's hilarious.
01:05:48 --> 01:05:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And the funny thing is is that Steve Barnes, like the straight man,
01:05:52 --> 01:05:53 [SPEAKER_01]: for the most part.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's ridiculous, but of the three, he's more of the straight man.
01:05:57 --> 01:06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like the handsome lead and he's got some really funny stuff in there, but it's like a collectively funny movie.
01:06:03 --> 01:06:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I always loved the man with two brains and it's just absolutely bonkers.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just dumb.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's
01:06:09 --> 01:06:10 [SPEAKER_06]: I always loved.
01:06:10 --> 01:06:15 [SPEAKER_06]: I think as a child, I watched all of me probably a dozen times.
01:06:15 --> 01:06:17 [SPEAKER_06]: It was always on television.
01:06:17 --> 01:06:18 [SPEAKER_06]: I watched it over and over.
01:06:19 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_06]: I can't really recommend it's political sensibilities these days.
01:06:24 --> 01:06:25 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
01:06:25 --> 01:06:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do have and I always enjoyed a dirty Ron scoundrels.
01:06:31 --> 01:06:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed parts.
01:06:33 --> 01:06:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
01:06:34 --> 01:06:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen a lot.
01:06:35 --> 01:06:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like I thought, I find both finger
01:06:38 --> 01:06:40 [SPEAKER_01]: There has a couple of moments that make me laugh.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:44 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think Eddie Murphy's really funny in bow finger.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:47 [SPEAKER_06]: Eighties, eighties and nineties, Steve Martin.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:49 [SPEAKER_06]: It was almost can't mess.
01:06:52 --> 01:06:57 [SPEAKER_06]: It's very hard to think of him in a role where it didn't work.
01:06:57 --> 01:07:03 [SPEAKER_06]: And this, for whatever reason you decided to choose the one, the one, Steve Martin movie.
01:07:04 --> 01:07:06 [SPEAKER_06]: And the early nineties that was, uh, didn't work.
01:07:08 --> 01:07:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It's in ninety two was an interesting year for me because I can't it's so funny and I can't think of this movie without thinking of the movie toys with Robin Williams never saw because there's there you don't need to there are there were two movies that was super excited about well I'm a person like Batman return but I'm like this leap of faith and and toys were two movies that was really excited but we're coming out was jazz and like man these are comedy heavy weights
01:07:37 --> 01:08:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And what appears to be like interesting roles and like in like a stories that I'm like, I'm kind of intrigued by and toys with such a misfire like just such a misfire that I remember how I felt coming out of the theater and it was a bigger version of how I felt about when I left the theater for this movie because
01:08:02 --> 01:08:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I was disappointed in this one and I was kind of wrestling with it.
01:08:05 --> 01:08:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I was still on this not quite fully embracing movies in the same way that I tried to explore them now.
01:08:15 --> 01:08:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But I knew there was just
01:08:17 --> 01:08:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I know there was just meat left on that bone and I'm mad.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm mad that I saw it.
01:08:22 --> 01:08:23 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think that that's it.
01:08:23 --> 01:08:30 [SPEAKER_06]: I think oftentimes, either it's a bad movie or it could have, you know, was this close?
01:08:30 --> 01:08:38 [SPEAKER_06]: I think sometimes I will have a more of an emotional response when the movie was just almost good.
01:08:38 --> 01:08:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally because you're sitting there.
01:08:40 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going like, well, I mean, you could have, why didn't you?
01:08:44 --> 01:08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's right.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I want it now.
01:08:46 --> 01:08:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I know what I want.
01:08:48 --> 01:08:51 [SPEAKER_01]: and and it's already been done so it's not going to be done again.
01:08:51 --> 01:08:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's there's no like watching your team lose the Super Bowl.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So I won't.
01:08:56 --> 01:08:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not it might not have ever happened again.
01:08:58 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was right there.
01:08:59 --> 01:09:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you were right there.
01:09:02 --> 01:09:07 [SPEAKER_06]: Um, is there a half about a one to grown moment in this film?
01:09:09 --> 01:09:10 [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
01:09:11 --> 01:09:11 [SPEAKER_06]: I've got one.
01:09:11 --> 01:09:13 [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
01:09:15 --> 01:09:21 [SPEAKER_06]: Amelia goes into the diner and she orders two bowls of chili, hold the onions.
01:09:22 --> 01:09:23 [SPEAKER_06]: You can't do that.
01:09:25 --> 01:09:27 [SPEAKER_06]: This is a diner, Amelia.
01:09:28 --> 01:09:32 [SPEAKER_06]: Best case scenario, they've been cooking that chili since five a.m.
01:09:32 --> 01:09:34 [SPEAKER_06]: The onions are in there.
01:09:34 --> 01:09:36 [SPEAKER_06]: They're dissolved, right?
01:09:36 --> 01:09:38 [SPEAKER_06]: There's nothing you can do about that.
01:09:39 --> 01:09:42 [SPEAKER_06]: More likely, that chili came out of a can.
01:09:44 --> 01:09:46 [SPEAKER_06]: There's no hold the onions.
01:09:47 --> 01:09:51 [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, Amelia is a, she's bizarre.
01:09:51 --> 01:09:53 [SPEAKER_06]: She's a bizarre character in this film.
01:09:54 --> 01:09:55 [SPEAKER_06]: And I can't look away.
01:09:57 --> 01:10:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's, that's what I'm saying, just when you're, so you have to battle moment is when you're out of diner, no substitutions.
01:10:07 --> 01:10:09 [SPEAKER_06]: When you're at it, diner, and you order the chili.
01:10:10 --> 01:10:11 [SPEAKER_06]: Don't order two bowls.
01:10:11 --> 01:10:12 [SPEAKER_06]: Number one.
01:10:14 --> 01:10:15 [SPEAKER_06]: Try try try for one first.
01:10:16 --> 01:10:18 [SPEAKER_06]: Hold the onions never.
01:10:18 --> 01:10:21 [SPEAKER_06]: Don't ever hold the onions on diner chili.
01:10:26 --> 01:10:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Two men, two bowls.
01:10:28 --> 01:10:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Give it a sec.
01:10:34 --> 01:10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: See if the first one does okay.
01:10:37 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_01]: You can order another bowl right after.
01:10:42 --> 01:10:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Once for eating, once for soaking my bunions.
01:11:52 --> 01:11:56 [UNKNOWN]: In a cocoon of horror