Steve and Anthony are alienated by Memoirs of An Invisible Man.
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00:19 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other quote fiction.
00:25 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Today we take a look at John Carpenter's memoirs of an invisible man starring Chevy Chase as a person who becomes invisible.
00:33 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_01]: This movie is really just that with me to discuss this as always is Dr. Anthony
00:49 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
00:49 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And as we promised in the past, we read these on this podcast.
00:54 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me read you one of these reviews.
00:56 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Properly underrated.
00:58 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Anything wrapped in bacon is delicious, wrapping a 14 episode series using Kevin Bacon inspired.
01:09 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is from BR-O-R, which I would say like B-R, B-R,
01:16 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_02]: out, Roger.
01:17 --> 01:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Be right out, Roger.
01:19 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking about this, and I think, because I've, you know, I've had misgivings about the season.
01:24 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like there wasn't enough bacon in the bacon rap season.
01:28 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've voices to you number of times so far.
01:32 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_02]: But we're almost through, and I'm actually feeling pretty good about this, because of course we've been able to work some baking conversation into most of these episodes.
01:41 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, right when we remember.
01:43 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So how do you feel this this season's going?
01:45 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's exceeded my expectations.
01:48 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do too.
01:49 --> 01:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we're about to bring it to a crashing halt.
01:53 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we'll for sure.
01:54 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_02]: This may be the worst podcast we've ever recorded.
01:58 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We have we have our work cut out for us.
02:00 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just put this way.
02:00 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we warn the viewers and it listeners in advance.
02:04 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where this is going to go.
02:05 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It would
02:07 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_01]: if we pull this off it to make it even slightly entertaining and we've really, we've out done ourselves.
02:13 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_02]: So you're, I think you're right in that we kind of like worked ourselves into a corner and then the question is can we punch our way out?
02:21 --> 02:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I'm looking, I'm looking forward to seeing how we, maybe we just flow a little too close to the sun?
02:28 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_02]: This was your choice, my Mars ever, the invisible man, of an invisible man.
02:34 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_02]: He's not even the invisible man.
02:35 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_02]: He's just your garden variety invisible man.
02:38 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and this was your choice.
02:40 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
02:41 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to let you, I will let you start.
02:46 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_02]: What are your, how would you like to start discussing this thing?
02:52 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Could we talk about something else?
02:56 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no Steve, we cannot.
03:00 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
03:01 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So, um,
03:03 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_01]: This movie was a very specific campaign, I think through entertainment tonight.
03:10 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think there may have even been like an MTV like behind the scenes, special thing on it or whatever, but, you know, this was really being touted, I think, for the effects.
03:20 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_02]: What was the year this, 92?
03:24 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So 92, and this is about the same time we're getting Jurassic Park, you know?
03:30 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Jurassic Park is,
03:32 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_02]: A couple years later, but this is at the same time that Jurassic Park is probably being filmed.
03:38 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So 92, let's see what we got.
03:40 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So to make it claim about a special effects is pretty bold.
03:47 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, considering right now, your special effects movies in 92 that you're probably doing any comparisons to, it would be like a lawnmower man,
03:56 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, it's not like, like, I enjoyed the special effects in Ghost Busters.
04:02 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_02]: It just that I didn't, I wasn't wild by them.
04:06 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, how did they do that?
04:07 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just like, boy, that was fun.
04:09 --> 04:14 [SPEAKER_02]: And because that movie was a fun movie, I wasn't hung up on the special effects.
04:14 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_02]: But I would not call the special effects like jaw dropping.
04:18 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, part of the thing is is that we had, I don't think we really had an invisible man movie, right?
04:23 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so you've got,
04:25 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's, let's, let's back up a little bit.
04:27 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So you know, kind of in your, in your classic movies, and I would assume this, I don't know if it falls in the universal monster horror category, but, you know, you've got the imagery of the invisible man as something I think we grew up with right?
04:42 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever seen the invisible man, the black and white?
04:45 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'd never seen it, but I do remember, it was a constant question on the playground, would you rather fly or be invisible?
04:54 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
04:54 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So invisibility is certainly part of, you know, it's part of our culture, right?
05:02 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: The idea of being invisible.
05:04 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's almost an archetype of a superpower, right?
05:09 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
05:09 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
05:09 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, and the thing is is that, uh, but the idea is, okay.
05:12 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So what is your is invisibility is if the invisibility is a superpower, you can turn yourself invisible.
05:18 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_01]: What if you're invisible because of some other, uh,
05:22 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_02]: just lack visibility like what does that mean, you know, like it's, uh, yeah, it's worth the first in the same with the, you know, being aware of well for the curse or being a vampire, right, right, right, right.
05:36 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I mean, you're, you're, you know, it's, there's a certain lonelyness to it, right?
05:40 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So when we, when we're kids on the playground talking about like, would you like to be invisible what you're saying is, would you like to go and see, uh, girl shower?
05:49 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you like to be an extra in porquis that that's yeah, yeah, would you rather be a super hero or a degenerate?
05:59 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So what we're asking and the the hard part or the I think nothing nothing to express is what it means to be a middle schooler is that you can't quite decide between those two options
06:13 --> 06:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So, so, okay, so you get this, you get this film, right, then, and it's a, I have to imagine fairly large budget.
06:22 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I was interested because I kept seeing things about the effects and the making of and all of that stuff, right?
06:26 --> 06:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was kind of interested in the idea of an invisible man.
06:30 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Now at this point, I feel like the shine is off of Chevy Chase.
06:34 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_02]: You're in high school at the moment, right?
06:36 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
06:37 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
06:38 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like so this is a movie where Chevy Chase is trying to sort of break from just the straight like slap sticky comedy right now.
06:48 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this script went through some rewrites so that he could show his acting chops.
06:57 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_01]: such as they are.
06:58 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've got an excerpt from William Goldman's book that I'm going to read a little bit later by continue.
07:07 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_01]: OK, OK.
07:08 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's this, I mean, you already got this, like in the Chevy Chase at this point is he's a comic actor.
07:19 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_01]: He's the year before he did nothing but trouble, you know,
07:23 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Christmas vacation a couple years before that.
07:25 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Fletch.
07:26 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: He's done his life as sunny farm couch trip three amigos.
07:30 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like
07:32 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, and so modern problems is another one from like 81 where like, you know, he gets kind of cursed with like telekinesis.
07:38 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_02]: It should be said that the vacation films were pretty well celebrated and very big money makers.
07:48 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
07:48 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's he's a, he's a pretty big, I mean, nothing but trouble was a, was a huge flop.
07:52 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just a completeness fire, but like he's still writing and Katie
08:00 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_01]: but he's at this point considered a legit leading comic actor, right?
08:06 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So, when you see him memoirs of the invisible man, I think your first thought is, all right, so this is gonna be an invisible man movie, but it's gonna be funny, like, and again, I point to like modern problems as sort of this kind of maybe sort of precursor for this sort of idea, you know, we're gonna get some slapsticky stuff, we'll probably he'll get the girl in the end,
08:29 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like he'll probably do some rakeish things as an invisible man before he comes to like maybe maybe there's a point where he learns to use it for good, you know, but kind of thinking those lines right.
08:54 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And so what you're telling me is that that's this this movie is the best autobiography of Chevy Chase's real life.
09:02 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
09:02 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_02]: His knives are interesting or funny and eventually he will become invisible to all of us right.
09:10 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really it's kind of this is I maybe this is the peak hubris or whatever because after this I mean he's doing
09:23 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_01]: This was a career defining moment in a career already defined, right?
09:28 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
09:29 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of things that in this movie, like it's made like a movie.
09:35 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
09:36 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It is an actual film.
09:40 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's, yes, let's talk about that.
09:43 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it?
09:44 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there is, there is clearly a camera involved because otherwise we wouldn't see the stuff.
09:51 --> 09:54 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like that's a pretty necessary ingredient for a movie.
09:54 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Cameras actors.
09:55 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_01]: There's people you know that are most likely being on paid for, for sane words and pretending to be somebody else.
10:06 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, very important aspect of a movie.
10:10 --> 10:10 [SPEAKER_01]: There's credits.
10:12 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So let me tell you the matters.
10:13 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just, let me just frame this in a way that is not negative.
10:21 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't been I think I've been neither negative nor positive, which is I think the epitome of what this movie is.
10:26 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
10:27 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I disagree, but let me try to frame this in a way that's not negative.
10:34 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I used to watch the Twilight Zone sort of the second iteration.
10:38 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_02]: The Twilight Zone that was in color.
10:41 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_02]: The Twilight Zone that George R.R.
10:43 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Martin wrote for a few episodes.
10:46 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you ever watch this?
10:48 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was a mid-80s or late-80s Twilight Zone.
10:53 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I guess reboot.
10:55 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
10:55 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I watched the original and I watched this.
10:57 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I always quite like them and they were pretty short They were like little short stories something Amazing or sci-fi or horrific would happen And it would just kind of end like you would see like something happened.
11:17 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_02]: You would see a few of the outcomes of the the outlandish thing happen and then it would just end
11:24 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_02]: If you were to show me the first 30 minutes of this movie as a Twilight Zone episode, you'd be excited that it would just end.
11:34 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, well of course sure, but I would think that was the best episode of the Twilight Zone I've ever seen.
11:42 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_02]: If you think of this as sort of like a
11:53 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it works pretty well as sort of a television, suitable for television, twilight zone.
12:00 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_02]: As a movie, it is a train wreck, but I think I might even, I might even enjoy this movie in 92.
12:10 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't, now did you see it in 92?
12:12 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I did.
12:14 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
12:15 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you had read about it and now you're going to go to the theater to see it, because you want to see the movie.
12:19 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think I don't know if I saw it in the theater, I don't believe I saw it in the theater.
12:23 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but it was definitely one of these ones where I'm just watching this then and and and especially now going.
12:31 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the point of any of this, you know what I mean, it's like it's like they make it like so there are there are elements of this movie that are not awful.
12:41 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There are elements of this movie that are actually like, oh, that's kind of an interesting take.
12:45 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, on on this concept, but but it's the movie has zero interest in like,
12:53 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It has no interest in exploring invisibility.
12:56 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, okay.
12:57 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you.
12:58 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_01]: He's just invisible.
13:00 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me push it, let me retort.
13:04 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He's, he's just an invisible man.
13:08 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but we get it.
13:10 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_02]: But we get to see him in Braun's face, at least.
13:13 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: That was true.
13:14 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's certainly, well, that, and so, okay, great.
13:18 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad you brought up
13:22 --> 13:49 [SPEAKER_01]: problematic now and fine in 92 bronze face moment not just fine in 92 they thought this is a good idea but but it's interesting move that they don't you know play it up it's really just the disguise to look like you have a cab it kind it does have a little bit of a flesh vibe in that you know he's always wearing your skies is in flesh and I will say before he does the bronze face we do
13:52 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
13:53 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
13:53 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see, that's the thing.
13:55 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, so the movie, like, we're almost done with the movie when they decide, like, okay, well, let's, let's go with the effects, right?
14:03 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do the, let's do the, the painting of his face, given him the teeth and all that stuff.
14:09 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, that was, you could have done that earlier and made this movie, even just a little bit interesting.
14:16 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, wait, are you we're calling this the effects that he, he wore make up like that to me that's the least impressive part of the movie in terms when he wipes his face and he's got nothing but like then just teeth or floating.
14:28 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
14:29 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
14:30 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, it's like this idea that like so the best effects are put in service to the awkward date where he wipes his mouth when he should have.
14:41 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but here's the thing that that's a much more interesting movie is watching the guy try to just survive as an invisible man explore what it means to now like you have this thing which can be a power but at the same time it's a curse explore that instead what you have as you have this
14:58 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_01]: this absurd, there's the most villainous agents working for, I guess, the CIA, I don't know what they work for.
15:07 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And they want to, they want to, no, they bully the CIA, they bully the CIA, they want to capture this guy and coerce him to be a spy or sell him to the Russian.
15:21 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to tell him to the Russians, like this guy's the perfect spy, your patriotic duty is to sell him to our Cold War enemy.
15:32 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep in mind that the grand plan here is that he can be the ultimate agent and in order to convince him to be the ultimate agent, all they try to do is kill him.
15:43 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you want this guy on your side, make the movie about trying to convince that you're going to help them instead of being this cartoonish, everyone must die, villain, who, there's like, okay, if you get them, then what are you going to, like, they don't even want to experiment on them.
15:59 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_01]: They want to turn them into a spy, but you can't just turn a person into a spy if they don't want to be.
16:05 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that is such a flawed thing, and the other part of it is that Chevy Chase's character
16:14 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to think if he was just flat out unlikable, I mean, he's not likable, but like he's not like at one point.
16:20 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_02]: He's running away and he he busts through a door and knocks the sweetle lady from happy Gilmore on to the floor unconscious.
16:34 --> 16:35 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not your hero.
16:36 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, can we talk about whether or not we are rooting for him to get together with Daraliana?
16:43 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I, I'm rooting for Sam Niel a lot.
16:47 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking at Darrell Hannah and I'm thinking, you are in danger.
16:51 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Do not be in the same room with this man.
16:54 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Run away as fast as you can.
16:56 --> 16:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I wait and you're talking before he's invisible.
16:59 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Before he's invisible.
17:00 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's try.
17:01 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:02 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_02]: When he walks into the bar and he sees her, he's so gross.
17:05 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And undresses her with his eyes.
17:07 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so gross.
17:09 --> 17:13 [SPEAKER_02]: He this guy, let me just put it this way.
17:14 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_02]: If you wanted someone to have the face of a sex offender and pull that off perfectly, Chevy chases your man.
17:26 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I was worried.
17:26 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I was worried for Darrell Hannah at every moment.
17:30 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_02]: They were in the same room together.
17:32 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad you brought this up because I think this is an interesting turn.
17:37 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at
17:38 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So we talked about, and I like this.
17:40 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to, we're going to really I think experience the bacon wrap concept and its fullest, and maybe this episode is actually really necessary for what we're trying to do.
17:49 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I will say this.
17:50 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_02]: What we'll just front load this.
17:52 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey Steve, what bacon character would you insert into this movie?
17:57 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, obviously, hollow man, because obviously, it'll help you chase.
18:03 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It's obviously hollow man.
18:04 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_01]: OK, continue.
18:06 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you get to, so we talked about Adam Sandler and we talked about Punch Drunk Love and how it kind of feels like PTA's interpretation of what an Adam Sandler movie is, right?
18:16 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You have this inexplicably weird individual who is, you know, got some, you know, he's unstable, he's emotionally immature and emotionally stunted and volatile and but somehow gets the girl
18:35 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Might have a hard work.
18:37 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Deep down, yeah, he's just a big sweetheart, right?
18:40 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so that's kind of like that's, so that's PTA is very, this is interesting because you look at Chevy Chase.
18:46 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanna do something dramatic.
18:47 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanna be, you know, more of a leading man kind of a role that isn't just for comic relief or slapstick.
18:55 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you shed all those other things, you go, oh, this guy's a creep.
19:00 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
19:02 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And then if you look back and you're like, oh, yeah, he was a creep in flesh.
19:05 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's a creep in everything.
19:08 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But when he's comically creepy, you forgive it because he's going to fall downstairs or something.
19:14 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But when he's not that you go, oh, oh, you, you might be a problem.
19:20 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_02]: It's almost like he's the class clown, you know, he's sort of the class clown to his boss.
19:26 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_02]: That's fine.
19:30 --> 19:47 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like kind of bumbling, but kind of likable, he might, you know, but in this case, he's just like, you're just kind of a bad employee and you obviously very wealthy too, like, what am I rooting for here, yeah, you're kind of like the worst like just rich white dude.
19:49 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that that was funny in the 80s though.
19:52 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that there was a lot of comedy.
19:53 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a reason why Fletch was really successful.
19:56 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know if last time you seen Spies like us, but it's a lot of that.
20:01 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.
20:03 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, he's he's definitely creepy, but uh, you know, it's sort of like the avatar for all of the guys that wish that they could get away with all the stuff that Chevy Chase does.
20:14 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_02]: that that just it just kind of a brand of humor that hasn't survived.
20:21 --> 20:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but the thing is is that this movie doesn't do that humorously.
20:24 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the movie says what if what if we strip that character of the humor and what do you have you go?
20:29 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Ew.
20:30 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
20:31 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And so like immediately our first introduction to him, I'm like ew.
20:36 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: like because there's nothing like it's he's going so far out of his way to not be funny.
20:41 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not that you realize, oh, your charm was just there.
20:46 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Your charm was only that little veneer of comedy.
20:50 --> 20:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Your charm is like the makeup that Darrell Hannah puts on your face.
20:54 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it is it is just so easily washed off and then we don't want to see you anymore.
21:04 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's also Darrell Hannah problem.
21:06 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she works as a mermaid because like she's from the sea.
21:09 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't know how the world works.
21:13 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_02]: She's half fish.
21:14 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_02]: She's half fish and she's kind of, she's kind of cludsy.
21:19 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she's finally in that kind of role.
21:22 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, and I guess I love her and Kill Bill volume too.
21:27 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if there's a lot in between that I really love Darrell Hannah.
21:34 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, do you do you I mean what what are your feelings of a Darrell Hannah?
21:41 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Typically I never I had was never really a fan of her acting I never got it you know like I always felt like every Darrell Hannah movie was make worse because she was in it
22:02 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
22:03 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Like so it's one of those things where when I see her and Kilbill volume too, I enjoy it.
22:12 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very much kind of felt like, you know, when you sought to vote on Pope fiction, like, whoa, we're getting something here, you know?
22:20 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, she's playing against type and that's part of the fun there.
22:23 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think that there's something about, okay, so she's not great, but because Chevy Chase is horrible,
22:31 --> 22:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I think a better actor makes this movie worse.
22:35 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking like, I like Renee Russo in a lot of movies from the 90s.
22:42 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she's great.
22:44 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she does.
22:46 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_02]: She has about the same range as Darrell Hannah, but for whatever reason, I just like her more.
22:54 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think if you put her in this movie, now you're thinking,
23:02 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_02]: No, and I think I think I almost think you need a Darrell Hannah to think, well, she's the kind of person that might fall for her.
23:12 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the thing is, the creator has this, like she likes these documentaries, right?
23:15 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right, right.
23:17 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_02]: She's a documentarian.
23:19 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, she's supposed to be like intellectual.
23:22 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_01]: She's supposed to be talented.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: She's supposed to be
23:25 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: not what she, I mean, like there's, there's nothing about what they, this is a classic problem in comedy movies and movies in general, but comedy movies especially where they you create a, the guys of a powerful woman as sort of a foil to maybe the, the wackier lead and then they just fall for them inexplicably and and that's kind of like again there's
23:55 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: in a wacky or movie somehow because then you kind of almost forgive that trope but when you when you take the wacky out of it and you try to make it like a little bit more
24:06 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_01]: serious at times.
24:07 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you expose these tropes as being completely ridiculous.
24:13 --> 24:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's no, I mean, there's no reason outside of the fact that he's gotten money that any woman would be interested in this guy.
24:22 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He's he's he's just like he is so off-putting.
24:27 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm putting in a way that's like I don't even need you to tell me why I'll figure it out.
24:31 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I bet you I bet you I'll guess why he's
24:35 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, I think I know why that I think I know where this went wrong.
24:39 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was about halfway through the movie and Sarah's in the other room, so she can hear it.
24:48 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And she kind of calls from the other image she says, is that the drama or a comedy?
24:55 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_02]: The answer is nope.
24:57 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just was silent for a little bit.
25:01 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And she said,
25:02 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't tell?
25:03 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-oh.
25:05 --> 25:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
25:06 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I think it's trying to be a drama because it's not funny, but I don't even think it's trying to be funny.
25:17 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're super-broth, you know, chicken, beef vegetable.
25:20 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Or which is clearest?
25:24 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Clarest, which is most transparent.
25:28 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking for clear foods here.
25:31 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: No coloring, easy to digest.
25:32 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_00]: My doctor says I got to eat clear foods.
25:34 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all gas.
25:35 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_02]: So this brings me to William Goldman.
25:40 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_02]: So as you know, I'm a big fan of William Goldman.
25:43 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I love his movies.
25:45 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I've read the Prince's Pride.
25:47 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I've read adventures in screenplay.
25:49 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_02]: But until this week I had not read the sequel to Adventures in Screenplay, which is called Witch Lided I Tell.
25:59 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_02]: And he opens that book by talking about all about this movie.
26:06 --> 26:12 [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm going to read just about a five-minute excerpt of this book.
26:13 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_02]: So I pre-recorded myself reading this.
26:14 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_02]: In my experience, you work with the director, stars come later.
26:18 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Although they can be helpful, usually they are concerned not with the story, but rather they're part in it, and how they can be made even more adorable.
26:27 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Often, my main chore on the first draft is to nail a director.
26:35 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Rightman had talked with Chase, together they decided what the movie should be.
26:39 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I liked rightman from the very beginning, a couple of interesting things about him.
26:43 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_02]: For a comedy figure, he was never remotely funny.
26:46 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_02]: For a superstar director, there was a total absence of bullshit.
26:50 --> 26:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Later, when he brought me on to Dr. Twins, there was no secrecy.
26:53 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_02]: He had the other writers there when I was there, in the same room.
26:57 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_02]: When we started, we were both well aware that memoirs of an invisible man was not the battleship Patempkin.
27:03 --> 27:06 [SPEAKER_02]: A right minute was on the project for a good reason.
27:06 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_02]: He felt absolutely confident that he was on track of another Ghostbusters, a special effects filled comedy action flick.
27:14 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_02]: The plot of the novel, all you need to know is that as about a guy who accidentally gets caught in the lab explosion and is rendered invisible and has ensuing adventures.
27:23 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_02]: We talked for a couple days, then I went off and did the first draft.
27:27 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Senate's rightman and Chase.
27:29 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It was an okay for a draft, meaning that lots of work needed to be done, but at least a version of the story was there.
27:35 --> 27:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Rightman Feller was a good start, called me out from New York to talk about draft two.
27:39 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Before that happened, I spent a few minutes with Chase.
27:42 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_02]: I liked him too, he wasn't just tall, he was nice and bright and funny.
27:46 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_02]: He too was supportive enough about the first draft knowing that it was just that, the beginning of something.
27:52 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_02]: He clearly stopped attention for the project.
27:54 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And as I was leaving he casually mentioned that he hoped this time through we could be a little bit more forthcoming in what interested in him in the material and which he had talked to Ivan about, namely, an investigation of the loneliness of invisibility.
28:11 --> 28:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Nice phrase that, interesting rhythm, but all kinds of swell echoes.
28:15 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Want to know how those words sounded to my ears?
28:17 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Like this.
28:18 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Aaaaaargh!
28:21 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Why?
28:22 --> 28:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Because my director wanted to do a funny forest with special effects and my star wanted to do a serious sad drama.
28:29 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I went running to my new agents.
28:30 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Listen to me, I told them.
28:32 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be a train wreck and I'm in the middle.
28:35 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Here's what they said.
28:36 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Bill, you've been away a while.
28:38 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Things are a little different now, Ivan is represented by us, Chevy is represented by us, this is what CAA specializes in, it is called a package, and there will be no train rack, just write the script and we'll all sort itself out.
28:53 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I met with Ivan, Chevy's kind of interested in investigating the loneliness of invisibility I told him.
28:59 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_02]: His reply,
29:01 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_02]: totally unruffled calm.
29:03 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me handle Chevy.
29:04 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, round three.
29:05 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, draft three.
29:07 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Talk with Ivan.
29:08 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully you've make things better.
29:09 --> 29:11 [SPEAKER_02]: Talk about Chevy with the loneliness of invisibility.
29:12 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Back to New York to write and write and write.
29:15 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_02]: In truth, whenever there was a chance to toss a little lonelyness into the flick, I did so.
29:20 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And you want to know why because Chevy had a valid point, how could you deal with this material without discussing the awful reality of what it would be like if no one could see you?
29:29 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you were, I guess, the ultimate freak gone earth.
29:33 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_02]: But this had to be considered too.
29:35 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Olivia was not playing the lead.
29:37 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Young brando was not playing the lead or a cagny.
29:40 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_02]: My truth was this.
29:42 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I had no problem investigating the loneliness of invisibility.
29:46 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I just didn't want to investigate it with Javie Chase.
29:50 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Right as Chase was, he had not gotten famous for playing drunk, or scientists, or death row convex.
29:56 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_02]: He had become so plain a goof who had trouble with stairs.
29:59 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Draft three made its way to both powers.
30:01 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I even wanted to go into production, so I've used to this ground.
30:05 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I made my standard run at my agents.
30:08 --> 30:09 [SPEAKER_02]: This mild and short-old and reassured.
30:10 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But I could see in their eyes, I was not the loony of a few months before.
30:14 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been went to the brothers' warner, your picky told them, knowing that they had to pick him.
30:19 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Me or Chevy.
30:20 --> 30:21 [SPEAKER_02]: They picked Chevy.
30:21 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I quit first.
30:23 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't really remember.
30:25 --> 30:26 [SPEAKER_02]: This probably a dead heat.
30:26 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Half a dozen years later, Chevy came out in the flick.
30:29 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_02]: My name is mentioned among the writers.
30:31 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea if it should have been, since I never saw them move.
30:34 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's Goldman.
30:35 --> 30:37 [SPEAKER_02]: This was to be an Ivan Reitman film.
30:38 --> 30:47 [SPEAKER_02]: In the hands of Ivan Reitman, this might have been the film that they had pumped up in all of the magazines you were reading.
30:47 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I did.
30:51 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And I trust Reitman.
30:52 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I trust Reitman.
30:54 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_02]: If he thinks he's got another Ghostbusters on his hands, I think he could have pulled it off.
31:06 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_02]: was not only the worst person for the job, he made it all about him, and maybe made it a metaphor for the fact that he wasn't on top anymore and felt invisible.
31:16 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Quite possibly.
31:18 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And if that's the case, okay, you did it.
31:25 --> 31:25 [SPEAKER_01]: You show this.
31:26 --> 31:27 [SPEAKER_01]: You show this while you're not on top anymore.
31:28 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And what it must feel like.
31:30 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_02]: But that's the reason why why Sarah asked me is this a comedy or a drama.
31:35 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's because from the very start, there was a conflict.
31:40 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Is this a comedy or a drama?
31:43 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's going on.
31:44 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if I guess I'm I would be interested in one or the other, right?
31:51 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
31:51 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I think in my notes, I take a look here, I said it's not funny enough to be a comedy.
31:56 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: it's not dramatic enough to be a drama, it's not interesting enough to be science fiction, it's the worst of all movies.
32:06 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Because to me this is the worst kind of movie, because a bad movie that is bad, but entertaining is still at its core entertaining.
32:25 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was like, man, I kind of want to watch hero at large after this, so I would in a apology.
32:34 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Teen Wolf 2 is better than memoirs of an emphasis and I think Teen Wolf 2 is sin.
32:41 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_02]: At least team will have to knows what it is, you know?
32:44 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
32:45 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's no question about it, right?
32:46 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Jason Bateman didn't say, okay, that's fine, but I want to talk about the loneliness of trying to be where we'll, in on a boxing scholarship, when you find out that you only got it because your cousin was good at basketball.
33:01 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
33:02 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's, at least that's, I mean, like, there's a, cause,
33:08 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So it does beg the question, is there an interesting invisible man story to be told?
33:13 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I mean, you have hollow man that comes out later and it's more of a horror movie, right?
33:18 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Never seen it, but I hear it's kind of off-putting.
33:23 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And that could just be with the plot.
33:25 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_01]: But still, it's hard when you're doing invisible man movie, or because,
33:33 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_01]: your lead actor is invisible.
33:36 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so that's going to be a challenge, right?
33:38 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a challenge.
33:39 --> 33:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I will, I will say this for this movie.
33:43 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_02]: For an invisible man, we see Chevy Chase a lot in this movie.
33:47 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we do for sure.
33:49 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think that that's it's an interesting choice to like make it so that his the close that he was in we're invisible so that way he's not just make it all the time and yeah and and they do yeah they do it and they could see but it's not he doesn't you know doesn't happen too much right right I don't know why he's covering himself I guess just impulse but whatever.
34:10 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad, but the, so when you do that and you go, okay, well, the clothes also get, you know, the molecular structure of the clothes are also part of that.
34:23 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_01]: You then that's when you can introduce the notion of, you know, well, if anything to in, it enters your body, you can see.
34:29 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I would have liked to have seen more like.
34:34 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_01]: urine and poop run around.
34:37 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I was wondering that.
34:38 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, is this come on?
34:40 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just because it's clear.
34:41 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I should be looking at excrement like the entire time, right?
34:45 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:46 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:46 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just no way.
34:47 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's just no, you're always got something, right?
34:50 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know.
34:50 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, there's that aspect of it.
34:52 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I did like the line.
34:55 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's very hard to sleep when you can see through your eyelids.
34:59 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That that was interesting.
35:00 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so there's elements of like where they're again,
35:04 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_01]: invisibility, but here's the thing is you can also do that in a comment.
35:08 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do that.
35:10 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_01]: You could for sure pull that off in a funny way that also has moments of poignancy, but like it's just, it has no idea what it wants to do, right?
35:23 --> 35:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we want them to be invisible and that should be enough.
35:28 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let me suggest this.
35:30 --> 35:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to I want to recast Chevy Chase.
35:33 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to recast two different versions of the movie.
35:37 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_02]: If this movie is a serious movie, who do you replace Chevy Chase with?
35:45 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Vitt's serious?
35:45 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Vitt's serious.
35:47 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're keeping it in a carpenter.
35:48 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:53 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So 92
36:00 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of times I thought, I was thinking Harrison Ford, interesting, interesting.
36:07 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
36:08 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_02]: If it's a comedy, I think it should be Eddie Murphy.
36:15 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh.
36:16 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because he's in 92, I think he's just starting to make his sort of return.
36:23 --> 36:23 [SPEAKER_01]: That could be really good.
36:24 --> 36:26 [SPEAKER_02]: So that, that would be my suggestion.
36:26 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was thinking about what about a Michael Keaton.
36:30 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Michael Keaton's the perfect for either one, right?
36:33 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like he could pull off both.
36:35 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I think you're right.
36:36 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's the perfect one for either side.
36:40 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you wanted to be comedic, right?
36:42 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the perfect solution to this is let William Goldman write his film take Chevy Chase's influence out of it.
36:53 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Let Ivan Wright and Wrightman direct it
37:02 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, let me read something to you.
37:05 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_01]: This is John Carpenter, in an interview talking about memoirs of an invisible man.
37:14 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Chevy Chase Sam Neill, who I love and have a long time friendship with and Warner Brothers, I worked for them.
37:19 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was pleasant.
37:20 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Carpenter told Bariety before adding, no, it wasn't pleasant at all.
37:24 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm lying to you.
37:26 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_01]: It was the horror show.
37:27 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I really wanted to quit the business after that movie.
37:30 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Carpenter continued, God, I don't want to talk about why, but let's just say there were personalities on that film.
37:35 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_01]: He shall not be named who needs to be killed.
37:38 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
37:39 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_01]: That's terrible.
37:40 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He needs to be set on fire.
37:42 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
37:43 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it's all fine.
37:44 --> 37:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I survived it.
37:46 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think he's talking about Chase, right?
37:48 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I think we asked him because he said later.
37:49 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_01]: He says he talks about working with Neil and he says it's a terrific actor.
37:53 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was Darrell Hamma.
37:58 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He just, it was tamed to Steven Toplowski.
38:02 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Steven Toplowski.
38:05 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Come on.
38:07 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and the movie kind of tells on itself.
38:09 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And it tells on itself in a way that is trying to make a point,
38:15 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It reveals the flaw of the movie.
38:17 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_01]: When Sam Neill's character is talking about, hey, here's the guy who's got no friends.
38:20 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got no family.
38:21 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_01]: They're all the irony of this man becoming invisible is that he was already invisible to begin with.
38:27 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's the problem.
38:30 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think it tells on itself when the so-called friends are chatting in the living room.
38:36 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And we start talking about him as if he's not there.
38:40 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Saying he's an artistist.
38:42 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
38:43 --> 38:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was thinking is that, well, of course he is.
38:46 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_02]: We all know that already and that's what we don't like him.
38:49 --> 38:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
38:49 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're not and never changes.
38:53 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And he doesn't like, what does he do?
38:55 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He basically, you know, even though he fanes that he doesn't want to get her in trouble, he's totally fine with bringing Darryl Hannah along for what could be her ultimate peril.
39:12 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and by the way, she's not wearing anything.
39:14 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there trope of cliché or a device that you liked in this movie?
39:18 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I like tranquilizer darts.
39:27 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's pretty good.
39:28 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have a kind of a problem with the tranquilizer darts.
39:33 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't seem to knock you up for very long.
39:37 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_02]: right away.
39:38 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_02]: In a movie where like you can get knocked out just by like a slight conk on the head.
39:45 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I've been really a slight conk on the head.
39:47 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll knock you out for a long time.
39:51 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_02]: The tranquilizer dart hits him.
39:53 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_02]: He falls into the river or into the bay.
39:57 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Or is the, I don't know where that is.
39:59 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the river, man.
40:01 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_02]: He falls into the river.
40:02 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_02]: He should just die, right?
40:04 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's just gonna die.
40:06 --> 40:08 [SPEAKER_01]: You mean, you mean being unconscious in the water?
40:08 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, that's right.
40:10 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And then he like floats on the river and says, when I came to an uptruck to a lot of water.
40:16 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, gallons of sea water.
40:20 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So they wouldn't have been better like just kind of like barely elbowing him in the head because he wouldn't have stayed out.
40:29 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I think maybe they just forgot to shake the darts before they loaded them settles the tranquilizer settles so you only get it so much on the tip.
40:39 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I like blast doors and a lab.
40:42 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.
40:44 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I like it you know when you know it was clearly
40:48 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_02]: clearly a malfunction in, you know, it's sort of a, like, a rub Goldberg problem and all the sudden the entire building explodes into invisibility.
41:05 --> 41:10 [SPEAKER_02]: But boy there, those blast doors, those, those, those were part of the effects.
41:10 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Now I do have a question about those though.
41:14 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Why leave the hallway door open?
41:17 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you're clearly working on some pretty advanced technology in there.
41:23 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a public lecture going on right down the hall.
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe close a door.
41:29 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
41:30 --> 41:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean the door is not hard to close.
41:32 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a button.
41:33 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_02]: You press a button.
41:37 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:39 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_02]: One of the scientists is claustrophobic.
41:43 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not a lot of good crossberries.
41:48 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_02]: What did you think about, I mean, for a movie that's supposed to have a social effect, what did you think about the lab fire?
41:55 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That was pretty wild.
41:57 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_01]: The lab.
41:58 --> 41:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:59 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so I got to go back to the effects.
42:02 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, so like watch it and run on the beach.
42:07 --> 42:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was a movie that I liked.
42:11 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, just haven't been visible.
42:14 --> 42:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
42:15 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_02]: It was always like every now and again, they were like, yeah, but it's Chevy Chase.
42:19 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, can't we try to make it funny?
42:22 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_02]: But then they would forget in the next scene.
42:23 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
42:25 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what if the movie was about a guy who was invisible like this and he keeps getting tested.
42:30 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, we just, and it's like, and the whole thing is, can he get his visibility back.
42:35 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's like constantly going back for tests and doing different things
42:40 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And trying to make, and then the movie is him just getting used to the fact, well, I guess this is what I am now.
42:45 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm invisible.
42:46 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_01]: How do I, you know, maybe maybe there's good.
42:48 --> 42:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I can make out of it.
42:49 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean, and like almost groundhog day it to a two degree right like this is not going to go away.
42:57 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So now I have to figure out what it means to be this.
42:59 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Or, too, where he's like, okay, I'm invisible, but now I'm famous and visible and everyone likes me and do they really like me or do they just like me because I'm a celebrity, I mean, you could there's a lot of other things that you could do well, and you could and you can still do that in the funny way, like, and that's the thing is like, again, we're already promoting our groundhog podcast is coming up, but like, that's kind of the point, right?
43:24 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_01]: You took a guy.
43:26 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll talk about how effective it is when we do a review, but like that's your concept, right?
43:30 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Groundhog Day to some degree feels like what this movie could have been in many ways, right?
43:36 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this this chart a path of maybe somebody who's who's not an invisible person in real life, but is a visible person in real life becomes invisible and then that's now their new reality.
43:49 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, or they can use their invisibility to become visible the other way, right?
43:52 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, they are a someone who's just sort of in the shadows, but now they're invisible.
43:56 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, they can hack a rubber bag if I wanted to.
43:58 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I could do this.
43:59 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I could, I could, I could be a ledge.
44:00 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I could do all these things, but then maybe that only, you know, lasts so long.
44:04 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I could be a celebrity, but oh, geez, but to what end and, and how do I just deal with that fact that I'm invisible?
44:11 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I find love if I'm invisible.
44:13 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Like all those types of things can be played up for jokes.
44:19 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_01]: um, they could be even just a little bit interesting would be a nice change of pace.
44:25 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So Grandhog Zay comes next because of Stephen Tobalowski.
44:30 --> 44:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, do you think he brought a lot to this film?
44:36 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was, because again, it's like, it's, it's, I've never seen Tobalowski.
44:40 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Try the dude like the more dramatic.
44:43 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Tobalazki is the CIA's ineffectual vice-principal.
44:47 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
44:47 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey.
44:48 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't go killing people.
44:53 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Steve.
44:56 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a tweak you would have made to this movie, too?
44:59 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's all we've talked about.
45:03 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_02]: You can only make one tweak.
45:08 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess you just can it.
45:09 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So Goldman says that right man goes to Warner Bros and says mere chase and they choose chase and I think they made the wrong decision.
45:24 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So if they had gone the other direction, you would have kept William Goldman on.
45:30 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, then golden and writing for a Stephen Reitman film.
45:33 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_02]: You've still got a big budget.
45:36 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_02]: You add Michael Keaton instead.
45:37 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_02]: You hear you get an entirely different movie.
45:40 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
45:41 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's my tweak.
45:43 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Steve is this movie better.
45:45 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_02]: We're so in part with a Ron Howard film.
45:50 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Ron Howard, I'm just like gut says minus seven.
45:53 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to say Ron Howard minus 20.
45:55 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's fair.
45:57 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_02]: Because maybe you're right, maybe you're right.
46:03 --> 46:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Because Ron Howard would probably make nice with Chevy Chase.
46:07 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_02]: He's just, his reputation is that he just gets along with everybody.
46:14 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And so Ron Howard, and he might have been able to convince him to beat, but we just maybe, let's do a little more with the jacket.
46:22 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Just see how it works.
46:23 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see how it feels.
46:25 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I don't, maybe Ron Howard doesn't help this as much as I had thought.
46:30 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, I'm gonna go with you.
46:32 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll say seven.
46:33 --> 46:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Steve, is there a half-about-a-one-de-grond moment in this?
46:41 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't make out with Japanese.
47:49 --> 47:54 [UNKNOWN]: And a cocoon of horror.