Steve and Anthony let buffalo farts with Flatliners.
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00:20 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to Rockerley Hall, a podcast of reviews, classic films, and other most fiction.
00:25 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_03]: Today we take a look at Joel Schumacher's Black Widers.
00:29 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_03]: starring Keeper Sutherland, Kevin Bacon, Julia Roberts, and a lesser Baldwin.
00:34 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Flatliners is a film about med students who despite the audience's preference, just can't stay dead.
00:41 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_03]: With me to discuss this as always is Dr. Anthony LaDon.
00:47 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_01]: After 14 films, what have we learned about ourselves?
00:53 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't like Chevy Chase that much.
00:56 --> 00:57 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.
00:57 --> 00:58 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one.
00:58 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, neither one of us like Chevy Chase very much.
01:01 --> 01:03 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the best Chevy Chase movie?
01:04 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Have we did we talk about that?
01:09 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say probably Christmas vacation.
01:13 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna say Fletch.
01:16 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
01:17 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_03]: It was the last time you'd seen Fletch.
01:20 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I saw the remake with John Hamm and I liked that.
01:25 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, well, that's not the one we're talking about.
01:27 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_03]: So your favorite Chevy Chase movie is one starring John Ham.
01:30 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
01:32 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
01:32 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_03]: That sounds very right.
01:34 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_03]: It's gonna make it.
01:35 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I'll go through me, goes.
01:37 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's good.
01:38 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
01:39 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we've learned that if you choose an actor, that's in one film, and then go watch the other film that they were in, there might be some thematic overlap.
01:52 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if, I mean, I think we found that a few times of this, this season.
01:57 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know if it's because casting director, see a character and they think, okay, I want, I want more of that in this other movie, or whether it's just dumb luck.
02:13 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not like Vigo Mortensen was similar from one of the things.
02:21 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm like, I feel like we ought to call out the actor that connected from last film to this film.
02:26 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_03]: No, Angela Patton.
02:28 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Angela Patton got a just one line.
02:47 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_01]: One line where she's yelling directly at Kevin Bacon, and I thought, that actually, I'm glad that we're, kind of a nice way to add it.
02:56 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
02:56 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And she sort of older authority figure, scolding the young rebellious Kevin Bacon.
03:03 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that was really nice.
03:08 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_01]: See, if I don't think that we've mentioned, your relationship with Kevin Bacon.
03:17 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you might have a unique relationship with Kevin Bacon.
03:21 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you're talking about the, um, at one time of resemblance.
03:28 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_03]: People used to tell you that you look like Kevin Bacon.
03:31 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
03:33 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_03]: And now they tell me that I look like Kevin Bacon if you let himself go.
03:42 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_01]: there was a time and it wasn't just like like one person said it one time.
03:48 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
03:49 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It used to happen every, every now and again, it would happen.
03:53 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
03:53 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
03:54 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_01]: How old were you when this?
03:56 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it started when I was maybe like 16, 17, something around that.
03:59 --> 04:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you have the Kevin Bacon hair that you have on this movie?
04:05 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_03]: No.
04:06 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I always, like my hair was never gray.
04:11 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_03]: there was a lot of it.
04:12 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, I could have brought my sister.
04:15 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Your hair, your hair was flirting with flat lining, even when yes, yes, yeah, my sister, if I had my sister's hair, I would have looked more like Kevin Bacon.
04:26 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_01]: The hair in this movie is amazing.
04:29 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's repulsive at the same time.
04:33 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, kind of a gaunt Lionel.
04:37 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Thunder, Thunder, Thunder Cats, Paul!
04:45 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So do you think that because people kept associating you with Kevin Bacon, do you think of that drew you to Kevin Bacon?
04:55 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.
04:56 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think I'd already been pretty, you know, you like a few Kevin bacon movies?
05:01 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh sure, for sure.
05:02 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you started the ones that we've watched than this bacon wrap, but you don't feel like you liked them any more less because you thought maybe, you know, there's a little bit of me in this guy.
05:13 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, don't think so, no, I don't.
05:18 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess probably because I didn't see it personally.
05:20 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I did have somebody say that another person said that I look more like key for
05:31 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, now flirting more with Oliver Platte if we're taking all the characters, flat liners, but.
05:40 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And I can smell something really off-putting.
05:42 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_03]: That's when I look like William Baldwin.
05:48 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_01]: William Baldwin is off-putting.
05:49 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, so he's pretty wet in this movie, right?
05:55 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a pretty wet movie for William Baldwin.
05:57 --> 06:00 [SPEAKER_03]: It seems like it seems like he's always damped.
06:01 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to have the William Baldwin conversation now or later?
06:04 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's never a good time.
06:09 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's crazy to me that Alec Baldwin killed a person and he's still not the worst Baldwin.
06:15 --> 06:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, I mean, it's just not to say that.
06:20 --> 06:27 [SPEAKER_01]: If there's anything I've learned from this movie, it's that even if it's accidental, they will come back and haunt you.
06:32 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So the Billy Baldwin thing, I never got it, I think at one point, he was in some pretty big movies.
06:44 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Was it your backdrop?
06:45 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he was in backdrop, I was just going to say backdrop.
06:49 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_03]: We're going to do a Billy Baldwin wrap next.
06:52 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I think if you were going to use them in a movie, it would have to be, he could play a fireman in New York City, maybe, not the chief fire, just like, no, no.
07:03 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Lower level guy who scrubs the truck, that count.
07:06 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, guy that could for sure get burned and people would just sort of move on.
07:12 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Him playing a brilliant med student.
07:16 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, even as you say that now, I'm like,
07:20 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I just watched the movie, and I know that that was supposed to be the thing.
07:25 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting that he's in this movie, he plays a guy that is filming people unbeknownst to them.
07:33 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And then he's in sliver, three years later, where he's doing the same thing.
07:38 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_03]: Like he's the landlord, and he's filming everybody.
07:41 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never saw sliver.
07:42 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Huh.
07:43 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to, ever.
07:46 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's an erotic thriller that is neither erotic nor thrilling.
07:50 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say that this movie is very well-acted.
07:53 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll never hear me say that.
07:57 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_03]: I love the idea that there's a scenario where like, you know, it's a life or death situation, and you're like, I'm sorry, you just gonna have to kill them.
08:07 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's levels of bad acting.
08:10 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And for sure, the rest of these bad actors are nowhere near where Billy Baldwin is in this film.
08:21 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot in this movie that I don't know about, like after even as it was happening.
08:28 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, what is this, what's happening?
08:32 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_03]: So the movie really, like, you know, like sometimes like you see a movie based on a book and maybe they don't do a bunch of character development, but like if you know the story, you're kind of like, well that's all right, I'm okay with it, but like, you know, I think we've talked about this,
08:50 --> 08:52 [SPEAKER_03]: the background, like it's even with the Game of Thrones, right?
08:53 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, when there obviously a lot of world building that goes on for George R. Martin, so showrunners try to do their best to sort of like, pay service to that.
09:02 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think there are elements that when we've discussed it, you're like, well, if you know the books, you know the lore, you know, this character a little bit more and that would maybe help, you know, sort of, inform some of the decisions that were being made.
09:13 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you don't, if you're only going with what you see on screen, it may not make as much sense, right?
09:20 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_03]: All kinds of adaptations.
09:23 --> 09:28 [SPEAKER_03]: This movie is like that only you needed to see the trailer where the guy explains what the movie's about.
09:29 --> 09:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Because it starts right into it.
09:32 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't know anything about these people everywhere that they are feels like it's a dream scape.
09:40 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this movie feels like there was like a lot of B-roll from 80s music videos that they've spliced in.
09:49 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_03]: which by the way, director Joel Shumacher did direct a lot of music videos.
09:52 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I was looking after this movie was like, have I ever liked Shumacher movie?
09:57 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, I thought, oh, I have for sure.
09:59 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I think last boys might be the only thing.
10:02 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't like falling down?
10:04 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I never really did.
10:06 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Really?
10:07 --> 10:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just never really did it for me.
10:10 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I know what, I know it's a beloved movie.
10:13 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_03]: I was a huge fan when it came out, revisited it
10:19 --> 10:26 [SPEAKER_03]: At the time, I hadn't really seen anything like it, so I was really, really locked in, I thought it was fantastic, and I still enjoy it.
10:27 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Lost boys are great, never have seen St.
10:29 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Elmo's fire.
10:29 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this movie is almost a cross between St.
10:34 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Elmo's fire and the lost boys.
10:36 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I could see that.
10:38 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I think even Keith or Sutherland when asked about it referred to it as St.
10:42 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Elmo's funeral.
10:50 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't hate Keith or Southern in this movie and I didn't hate Kevin Bacon in this movie Is Julia Roberts good good I don't know So this is like when she's this she's really on her scent right like this is she is she has become the it girl She's not quite like You know a list yet right this is no I think rise yeah after this
11:18 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm assuming pretty woman is after this.
11:22 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a good question.
11:24 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_01]: After this, she ascends to like the at girl in a way that's hard to describe it's like no one else is the same year as the same year is pretty woman.
11:36 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
11:37 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
11:38 --> 11:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
11:38 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_03]: So you're a piece of mystistic pizza comes out in 88.
11:43 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was probably what kind of
11:45 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, not that it was an amazing film, but then she comes out with steel magnolia.
11:49 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think she's just, she's like, it's happening, right?
11:52 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_03]: We're all like, she's very recognizable, the red hair, the pouty lip.
11:59 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the actress and really no one else is on her corner.
12:04 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she just occupies that space.
12:07 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Michelle Fifters kind of falling into the background.
12:12 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I don't think anyone else, before that period of time, anyone else could kind of get the roles that she could get.
12:19 --> 12:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because in like the next year, it's like she's tinkerbell and hook and then it's sleeping with the enemy same year.
12:26 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yes, I think thank you one was like, there's like, I think there's like three pretty significant films in 91 dying young comes out, so now she's like, she's she's in fantasy.
12:42 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is the year, this is the year that like she takes off.
12:47 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So none of the movies that you just mentioned are movies that I enjoy.
12:50 --> 12:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I do enjoy Erin Brockovich.
12:54 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Never say.
12:55 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really good and she's great in it.
12:59 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's sort of, I think kind of turned me around on her but in this movie, I don't,
13:08 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I really don't know.
13:09 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_01]: I really don't know if she doesn't serve any purpose.
13:14 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just, let's put it this way.
13:16 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: She's, she's sort of replacement level.
13:20 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, you give me Kevin Bacon, you give me Keith herself.
13:27 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Neither one of these guys are giving delivery in their best performance.
13:30 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's matching their tone.
13:33 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and her character, her only role that she serves
13:38 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_03]: is to be the female med student.
13:42 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's it.
13:43 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_03]: The one that they're trying to protect for some reason, she's sort of this pseudo love interest, but there's not really that.
13:51 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_03]: She's just, you know, they try to build her up to something but they don't do anything with this character.
13:57 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about that.
13:59 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we'll circle back to that.
14:02 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things about this movie... She's a prop.
14:07 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_01]: don't think I agree.
14:08 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I've only seen this movie once but I think that her storyline is one of the more redeeming qualities of the movie.
14:18 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you enjoy this movie?
14:22 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad it exists.
14:24 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_03]: I kind of enjoyed it.
14:26 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't dislike it so it's not a good movie like I wouldn't sit down with my kids and my wife say this is a great movie.
14:33 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's watch it together.
14:34 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But I kind of always wanted to see it.
14:37 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It has a little nostalgia even though I haven't seen it before, sort of nostalgia for an era of gen X movie making.
14:45 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're coming out of the A's, we're entering the 90's.
14:47 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Keeper Sutherland didn't get a lot of leaving rules.
14:56 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_03]: up into this point or at all at all.
14:59 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he 24, of course, right?
15:01 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm in terms of his career, I always associate him with the, you know, the supporting actor.
15:09 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, he's he's got
15:22 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, he's he's an ensemble cowboy in young guns.
15:26 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_03]: He's, um, the, uh, he was co-co-lead and renegades.
15:32 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Lieutenant Kendrick.
15:34 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's the co-lead and in flashback.
15:38 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, he was a, he was a three musketeer.
15:41 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_03]: So I would say he's, he's almost almost any movie that you look at him.
15:46 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_03]: No.
15:47 --> 15:52 [SPEAKER_03]: like early on, it's him and another person, like the cowboy way with what he tells him.
15:52 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Renegades with Lou Diamond Phillips, flashback with Dennis Hopper, you know, there's so it's, if you want a Gen X ensemble cast, he's your man, he's one of the gang, you bring him in.
16:06 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And in this one, it is kind of an ensemble cast, but I feel like he's first among equals.
16:13 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, he's definitely the guy, he's the centerpiece
16:17 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_03]: film.
16:18 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think he has a lot of roles like this.
16:21 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's the first money among equals in many films like this.
16:27 --> 16:28 [SPEAKER_01]: You might be right.
16:29 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell you it's the 24, right?
16:31 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
16:34 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_03]: And as I mean, it's an interesting ensemble cast that you get the three heavy weights, right?
16:40 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm putting Julia Roberts in as a heavyweight, just because
16:43 --> 16:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Like this is this is pretty woman year.
16:45 --> 16:48 [SPEAKER_03]: This is like this is her time right image.
16:48 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, she's is is how to female, you know, co-star.
16:54 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_03]: You're going to be able to to grab Kevin Bacon is the oldest of the group by like pretty good margin, which I think is interesting.
17:11 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_03]: he's going to do what he needs to do and then we're going to we're really wanted to make this other ball one thing.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean.
17:20 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
17:24 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: What does this fire what a misfire that I mean he has no chemistry with anybody he's he's the worst he's just the worst and I know he's playing a character he's the worst
17:40 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Oliver Platte, Oliver Platte is sort of near and dear to my heart.
17:45 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I like him, I'm almost everything he's at.
17:48 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He was really annoying in this movie.
17:51 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He was just, I just wish you could just delete everything about Oliver Platte.
17:56 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess he's playing the comic relief friend who just gets all the great one liners or something.
18:02 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Or just the guy who talks too much.
18:09 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it feels like they make, like, they make this character to somewhat behave as sort of a foil to the recklessness at first glance.
18:22 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_03]: I think when I first saw this movie and like try to remember it, like, oh, I isn't all over a plot like the real smart one.
18:27 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, we don't necessarily know that.
18:29 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_03]: He's just the more risk of earth.
18:32 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_03]: He's the, he's, he's more of just the guy that's also there.
18:39 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_03]: and you would think in a different situation where you've got these sort of like hunky and hot people, I don't know if it's all over plat, that he would be cast as the brain.
18:53 --> 18:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's not really that.
18:55 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_03]: He's not really that.
18:56 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_01]: He's the mouth keeper's the and Kevin are probably actual brains right when they're all intelligent but like yeah you get the sense that okay so you want to come up with a team right so you're going to need different characteristics to distinguish them.
19:12 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Kevin Bacon is kind of the bad boy genius like he just got kicked out of school for Karen too much.
19:19 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't I'm not sure why he gets kicked out, but whatever he did to say that person's life He's good in a cut him.
19:27 --> 19:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean apparently it yeah, I don't know I would have thought that maybe it was Performing surgery and on a band in the amusement park Then keyfers like your mad scientist
19:42 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_01]: a slash philosopher I suppose.
19:45 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Julia Roberts is pretty typical for the female lead.
19:51 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_01]: She's your empath, right?
19:52 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_01]: She's she's really interested in end of life care and she likes to interview people who have had near-death experience.
20:02 --> 20:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, I'm not sure if I buy it, but whatever.
20:06 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess Billy Baldwin is your smoke show, and your sex offender, both at the same time, I guess.
20:19 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if you need Oliver Platte.
20:23 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he, well, I mean, he's there to, like, throw out a few one liners, but, I mean, give those lines to
20:35 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Julia Roberts or someone else, I mean, why?
20:39 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so here's the thing is, he's got the tape recorder.
20:44 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_03]: And Billy, I'm always got the camera.
20:47 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, because the cameras only visual, that's like the big, the big, it's just crazy to me that like, I mean, this is, I guess, a time when like video cameras weren't just readily available, I suppose, so I guess having a friend with a video camera did matter in 1990.
21:04 --> 21:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sure.
21:04 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it matters so much that if you're making love for a woman and someone calls you and says, don't forget the camera, she'll immediately ask, what camera.
21:12 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, yes, that's how rare.
21:15 --> 21:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's how rare.
21:16 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
21:35 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, what do you even take in this for?
21:36 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I mean, you're not even taking notes.
21:40 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, life after death, what do you think?
21:45 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I vote for.
21:48 --> 21:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like flat liners, you think it's just like flat liners.
21:51 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just like flat liners.
21:52 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_03]: You get one memory.
21:56 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_03]: One memory, that's it.
21:58 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just, it's guilt.
22:01 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_03]: I love the idea that life after death is guilt.
22:05 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's the thing that's crazy about like I'm not sure what the the moral of this story is right they they die and and everything about them their consciousness and and the afterlife and whatever it is you think is going on and in this particular flatlined existence they don't that part assumes this is death so death is going to be a major drag you just have to relive your your guiltiest memory.
22:33 --> 22:50 [SPEAKER_03]: As far as we know, and then they pull you out, but we don't know what happens if they if you stay right, so they they get haunted by this and then essentially they they learn for peace for that particular memory, they need to a tone or allow for a tome it in that one memory.
22:51 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_03]: And then what if they stayed dead, what happens does he just chase that kid forever into a tree and watch him keep falling or.
23:00 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_03]: or is he tormented by him until he apologizes?
23:02 --> 23:05 [SPEAKER_03]: Cause he does go back and do that and then he's okay.
23:05 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_03]: But like, but all that means is you're not haunted.
23:09 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that this is basically purgatory, right?
23:12 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's what I'm supposed to take away.
23:15 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like heaven would have been where
23:28 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Billy, Billy Maloney, is it Billy Maloney?
23:31 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Mahoney.
23:32 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_03]: He needed just, like, so if I punched you, yeah.
23:39 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna, I'm stuck in purgatory until I find you so that you can punch me back.
23:44 --> 23:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Or I, okay, so this is why I think that Julia Roberts, storyline is kind of crucial.
23:51 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think that you could think of it that way, you could think of purgatory as or in this movie.
23:57 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You could think of purgatory as whatever you did on your worst day.
24:02 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Now you're going to live it as the victim.
24:05 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I think that her story teaches us is like, no, you have something unresolved.
24:15 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can resolve it, you can stop reliving it.
24:19 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Because she did not victimize her father, she just felt sort of guilt over something that wasn't her fault at all.
24:27 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And when she's able to resolve that, then she can just be done with it.
24:34 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I think.
24:35 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_03]: See, I read it a different way.
24:37 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_03]: I read it that she went and then essentially, she was found and he got to be set free by atoning with her.
24:48 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_03]: that he is now no longer stuck into a purgatory.
24:51 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_03]: We have to apologize.
24:53 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
24:55 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if that's the case, then she absolutely is a prop.
24:59 --> 24:59 [SPEAKER_03]: That's how I read it.
25:00 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what I mean.
25:01 --> 25:10 [SPEAKER_03]: He apologizes to her and then, and of course, I want to end okay, that sets her free of the guilt, but like she didn't do anything except just be there, right?
25:10 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_03]: She was just present.
25:12 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody else had to go and do something.
25:14 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, of course, I guess Billy Baldwin, he just got in trouble.
25:19 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he feels a sense of remorse to well, but to the extent that he's able.
25:27 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, what I would say is that I think that's one of the problem with that character.
25:30 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't get the sense that he felt remorse, I got the sense that he didn't want to be bothered by it.
25:36 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I never got the sense that he felt sorry.
25:38 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_03]: I think I always got the sense that he was very annoyed that all these women were showing up into his path.
25:49 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_03]: and then he got upset that he got in trouble, and then he got found out.
25:53 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't ever get a sense that he was better for any of this, that he atoned.
25:58 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's one of the interesting parts about the four issues at large, that he basically, as far as we can tell, he's done being tormented because he got his come-ups.
26:11 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's very different than the notion of atonement that was happening throughout the other
26:17 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, he just got in trouble for it.
26:18 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Or he got found out.
26:19 --> 26:24 [SPEAKER_01]: This movie is this movie significantly improved if Billy Baldwin dies.
26:26 --> 26:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I would think so.
26:27 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, in real life.
26:28 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say at least within the first five minutes.
26:34 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, that would be it would be an interesting take, right?
26:37 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I, because I feel like that's like I said, there's so much atonement that goes on and he gets punished.
26:46 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_03]: but like why isn't he continually being tormented?
26:49 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, his life after death experiences mostly boobs.
26:54 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so I guess he's all right.
26:55 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_03]: I guess he isn't heaven.
26:57 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_03]: He's a mauled one heaven.
27:00 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a mauled one heaven.
27:05 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that you could have just had him, not had him at all in this story.
27:12 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it's trying to, because if you're going to talk about, if you're going to talk about sexual indiscretion, then you kind of have to, you're going to have a better outcome than what you gave me.
27:24 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
27:24 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I think also beyond that, if you're trying to tell a story about atonement, and you have Kevin Bacon's character who kind of figures out, look, I got to fix this.
27:36 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's because he gets heckled on a subway.
27:39 --> 27:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Well sure.
27:40 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_01]: If you get heckle at the subway, you gotta do something about it.
27:43 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, whatever you got it.
27:44 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_01]: If a junior high girl tells you that your breath let a buffalo fart.
27:48 --> 27:49 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
27:49 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, anytime.
27:50 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_01]: You do whatever you have to do to make a man.
27:52 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_03]: Anytime a middle school or insults me or looks at me, where I would like to fly a line.
28:02 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_01]: All doctors were bullies at one point.
28:04 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what we're so so to understand?
28:06 --> 28:06 [SPEAKER_03]: absolutely.
28:07 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, so you have two, so you have, so the Kevin Bacon, you know, search for atonement, set some for it.
28:15 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_03]: So that is sort of your catalyst that helps keep for understand how maybe he can be set for you.
28:20 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so those two storylines connected.
28:22 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, like I said, then you have the Julia Roberts thing and that's how I interpreted that she was caught in somebody else's atonement.
28:30 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_03]: that she was tortured by this memory and feeling guilt and so he feels guilty for having put her through that he's able to attend with her and now he's set free.
28:41 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_03]: They're both set free in this process, right?
28:42 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the idea of the atonement.
28:43 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_03]: You set each other free.
28:45 --> 28:53 [SPEAKER_03]: So those sort of go into alignment but it's that's kind of a twist in my opinion if that's how it's read that that she's not the one that needs to do the atonement.
28:53 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_03]: She's the one who has to
28:57 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So, then you've got the Billy Baldwin situation where you find out that there's several women that he's been luring into, you know, to his room to have sex with and he's been recording it, so that he can turn around and smile at himself, yeah, sure, and then, and then he's
29:20 --> 29:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Tormented by them just keeping and saying all the things that he would say to them, right?
29:24 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's getting all the cat calls and the, and the, um, you know, the CBS terms and all that's happening and he's, that's a lot for him and all I know is that he's bothered by it.
29:38 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't go to any of these women to apologize.
29:41 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't go to any of these women beat up by it.
29:44 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't get beat up by him.
29:45 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_03]: He just gets, you know, bothered and then
29:49 --> 30:16 [SPEAKER_03]: his fiance sits down and just pops a tape in and watches it and it happens to be his you know his his sex capates so that and then as far as we understand thus end of the lesson there is no atonement there he he he he he was he had a pay for what he did in the sense that now his fiance has his broken up with him but all of the damage that
30:18 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_03]: all of the the women that he put through that they have no idea because we're assuming that this is sort of apparitional.
30:26 --> 30:43 [SPEAKER_03]: So so what how like not only is he the worst person in this movie like just as far as acting goes because he's also like the least like necessary like you don't do you could have then had a if you did the the the kind of the twist on the Julia Roberts thing do a twist on this
30:46 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, he's forever, yes.
30:48 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely give me, give me less purg purgatory and more hell.
30:54 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Losing your fiance because of all these things you did is not like, well, there it is.
31:00 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_03]: See what happens is like, that's not enough.
31:02 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_03]: That, especially with, Keith or Sutherland was getting hit in the head with hockey sticks.
31:08 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He took a life man, he took a life of a child and that's serious, serious child took a life of a child.
31:15 --> 31:15 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's be clear.
31:17 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but did you see the look on his face?
31:20 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he was like a demon child.
31:22 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Would you see the kid in the tree?
31:23 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Like do settle down.
31:30 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think my favorite reaction was this, they had there's like, oh, they'd killed the dog, too.
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I, that really tickled me.
31:39 --> 31:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I liked.
31:40 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you what I liked about this movie.
31:42 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_01]: And there was a lot of set up about the flat lining.
31:45 --> 31:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just, I was a lot of the first hour of this movie.
31:49 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It was just sort of pushing the limits and sort of exploring God's territory, I suppose.
31:59 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when the movie starts haunting everyone, you kind of lose that.
32:05 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And at that point, I just got really disinterested in the movie.
32:10 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, all the hotings stuff just, it wasn't, I didn't find it scary.
32:16 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, I didn't find it interesting.
32:18 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_03]: Totally the movie had some gaps, because I'm like, is this, it's not scary and have to be a horror.
32:25 --> 32:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
32:26 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not developed enough to be, some sort of a psychological thriller.
32:33 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's not interesting enough to not also be on my phone sometimes.
32:41 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_01]: very much, you know.
32:42 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_03]: No, and that's okay.
32:43 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_03]: That's I think a big issue is we get to the hey guys, I got an idea about flatlining very quickly.
32:52 --> 32:54 [SPEAKER_03]: Before we know, I don't even know where we are.
32:55 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_03]: The movies over, I still don't know where we are.
32:57 --> 32:58 [SPEAKER_03]: Are we in a library?
32:59 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_03]: Are we in an amusement park?
33:01 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Are we in a lot of cool?
33:04 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_03]: It's an abandoned church, isn't it?
33:06 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what the hell is going on.
33:09 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_03]: Where does
33:10 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_03]: the med school and this leaky church began.
33:18 --> 33:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Where does Kiefer Sutherland live?
33:20 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Does he live in that thing?
33:22 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_03]: Do they live in that church?
33:24 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_03]: He lives in a massive empty room.
33:28 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_03]: Where is this?
33:29 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Where is any of this?
33:31 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure it's Dayton, Ohio.
33:34 --> 33:38 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's, it's supposed to be Chicago, I think, but it looks a lot like the entire time.
33:38 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_03]: But that's a thing.
33:40 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_03]: The first thing you see them like is this post-apocalyptic, there is like an overturned everything outside of this place.
33:48 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_03]: To the point where you've got massive bonfires and slow motion, you know, witchery and dancing and all the stuff on Halloween.
33:58 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I spend so much of the time right out the gate going the way, who are these people?
34:03 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_03]: Where are they?
34:04 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So the real med school, the meds fire, the bonfire in front of the court building.
34:11 --> 34:23 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it feels like, if somebody were to create a med school during Mad Max time, like, I don't understand, like, is this, they're not becoming real doctors.
34:25 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I do feel like this med school is sort of like an MTV med school.
34:32 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, it feels like an AVs rock video where you also learn about human anatomy.
34:40 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, nobody's like sanitized anywhere.
34:45 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, there's just, there's just like guts and dicks hanging out everywhere in this place and then I don't understand, I don't understand.
34:53 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_03]: the setting.
34:54 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know who they are for a while.
34:57 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where they are for any of it.
35:00 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_03]: And it just jumps right into the flatlining thing.
35:03 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, if I didn't know what this movie was about, like, again, I'm sure the trailer was like, met students in Chicago.
35:10 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_02]: One a day.
35:12 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_02]: What happens after life?
35:13 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, all that stuff.
35:14 --> 35:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure that all is in there.
35:16 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_03]: So you kind of know going in.
35:17 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_03]: But like, it just jumps right into it.
35:20 --> 35:21 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I don't know if I like any of these people.
35:23 --> 35:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you have to, in a movie that's all about whether or not someone's going to live or die, you should probably care a little bit whether they live or die.
35:33 --> 35:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the thing that really got me, if I, this would be my one tweak.
35:38 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_01]: If I had one tweak, I would delete all of the competitive, I'm going to dive longer than you are, part like I never got that.
35:50 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, are you guys scientists or not?
35:52 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're scientists, then come up with a method and stick to it.
35:56 --> 36:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Your experimentation should not be determined by who's willing to die longest.
36:03 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's a little game of chicken that happens with these people that I do not understand at all.
36:09 --> 36:10 [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
36:10 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Try this tweak on, try this tweak on for size.
36:13 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_03]: We get to know these people a little bit.
36:16 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_03]: for like maybe like about ten.
36:18 --> 36:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you suggesting a better movie?
36:20 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Perhaps.
36:21 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And then the experiment, the guy does it and it's kind of a rush.
36:30 --> 36:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, thrill-seeking.
36:32 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, wow, I can't believe it.
36:34 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like I was I was seeing the world.
36:36 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_03]: I was seeing like, well, were you in heaven?
36:37 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, but it was still this earth.
36:39 --> 36:40 [SPEAKER_03]: I got to try it.
36:40 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_03]: They keep doing that.
36:42 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_03]: And they
36:45 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_03]: But after one, like third time or whatever, you get your key for character goes in.
36:51 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_03]: And suddenly, in the middle of this rush, he encounters a memory.
36:58 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_03]: And then that memory, like he goes in for so long and that memory comes back.
37:02 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_03]: And he doesn't tell anybody about it.
37:04 --> 37:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Now you have this idea of people going, well, how long were you in?
37:08 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, how far can you go and he's like trying to keep him from going because if he doesn't want to tell him what like you have a reason Like they can't do in it and then they keep then you they flirt with it too far and if you go too far That's where something happened.
37:21 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_03]: You know that then you've got yourself something like I feel like there You've got an idea of why they might be competitive about it or why they might want to go longer I'm then you find out that it was the it's it's
37:31 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_03]: tempting fate too much.
37:32 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And now you bring something back.
37:34 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
37:34 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's, you would eliminate a lot of these other things, right?
37:39 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you could even make it so that now you don't have anybody.
37:42 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just one person is haunted.
37:46 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_03]: And maybe maybe that's enough.
37:48 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_03]: And that becomes your, your horror fixation.
37:51 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Um,
37:53 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_03]: where you're not having all of these different, I mean, it depends on what your lesson is, right?
37:57 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_03]: What is your lesson that you're trying to tell?
37:58 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, if the lesson is about atonement, kind of a misfire, I mean, I guess there's a couple things that are like, he goes in apologizes and then he's set free.
38:07 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, okay, well, that's a little on the nose.
38:09 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_03]: You're trying to tell me this is the only thing he's ever done in his life.
38:13 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, but the other part of it is is that these are things that did not bother them, or at least Kevin Bacon was not, I didn't get the sense that Kevin Bacon was bothered.
38:23 --> 38:27 [SPEAKER_03]: to this day by that particular memory, right?
38:28 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, so Billy Baldwin is actively still doing this thing that he's going to be tormented by.
38:33 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that this movie is more a metaphor for like letting go of,
38:42 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_01]: parts of your past that you can't help but relive, right?
38:45 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_03]: I think, but if you don't relive him in Kevin Bacon's case until you die, then what's the lesson?
38:51 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not like you, that was, yeah, but I think his achievement was a lot less severe.
38:56 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, for him to attone, all he kind of had to do was look her up and go, say, I'm sorry.
39:02 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, he died and the worst thing he did was he was kind of a prick in middle school.
39:06 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_03]: We all worked.
39:10 --> 39:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:10 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_01]: So his atonement is less.
39:12 --> 39:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that what this movie is trying to say is to the extent that you hold on to your past, it will continue to haunt you.
39:21 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's trying to do that with some kind of twilight zone kind of premise that doesn't really work.
39:29 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it was set for Billy Baldwin.
39:31 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It's his present.
39:33 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
39:33 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
39:37 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Zero trouble cliche or device that you liked in this movie Julia Roberts here I was going to say keepers southern in a trench coat.
39:49 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty good.
39:51 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_03]: Keepers southern in a trench coat is pretty great I will say this and and Joel Schumacher is no stranger to this I'm a sucker for like a black light face or imagery like graffiti
40:08 --> 40:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I, it's dumb, but I really like it, it's, we see this heavy in Batman in Robin.
40:16 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
40:18 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, another two months.
40:19 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Two months.
40:19 --> 40:21 [SPEAKER_03]: It's too much.
40:22 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_03]: I thought visually, to me, some of the artistic, maybe those MTV choices were kind of the one thing that kind of kept me watching it.
40:38 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_01]: technicaler.
40:39 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I, I, I, I, I've glad you brought that up because I, I had made a note about that.
40:44 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's, in that interesting, how we will forgive certain media, like mixed choices if it's a Tarantino.
40:53 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:55 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_03]: Or, you know, other, other, other directors do it and we'll go, wow, super clever.
41:00 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_03]: But I bet you, in this case, well, I mean, so part of it was like, is this a first stab at that or not a first stab, but like an early stab at something like that, but because maybe they don't have this, maybe the technology as such, it's not as maybe well regarded, because I mean, what you call it, natural born killers, lots of that, right?
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's around the same time frame in it.
41:29 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:29 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's sort of one of the, I think that the, the first revision of the wizard of Oz did a black and white kind of thing versus the color.
41:43 --> 41:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I think, I mean, you see that a lot in MTV videos too, right?
41:47 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
41:48 --> 41:53 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the cutting between the grainy black and white and the vivid color.
41:54 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I think in this particular case, you are dealing with the blurring of the lines of what's real what isn't after life versus present, how the two bleed together, what is memory versus what is reality, obviously very clearly put together before you by any Billy Baldwin's sequence.
42:24 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do every trick that we can with a camera.
42:28 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, no scene was sort of like without some kind of like shaky cam or, you know, one of you point of view or like you're slow mo.
42:38 --> 42:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh gosh, the slow mo on this movie.
42:41 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like too much just just calm down a little bit here.
42:46 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can maybe it's just distract me from the storyline.
42:53 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, so let's talk a little shoe marker and because like Heather made the comics like, well, I mean, it's not like he's a great director and like, okay, I can, I could have that conversation and then she said something that like, I mean, I, we almost went to fist to cut she's like, it's not like lost boys as well directed and I was like, okay, hold on, hold on and I, I had to stop the movie and I had to walk through the pacing, the character development, um,
43:21 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, the the point of view shots and all those things, that's the thing.
43:25 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Chumacher, I believe directs loss boys very, very well for what that movie is.
43:32 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_03]: And I love how self-aware loss boys.
43:34 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to pause you right here.
43:37 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_01]: If it did come to Fista Cuffs, we all know who's going to win that fight.
43:40 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Look at my ass handed to me.
43:46 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I continue.
43:47 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_03]: So, so last boys, in many ways, we talk about like John Carpenter and the self-awareness of his films, I feel like last boys is in that category.
44:03 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it is a movie that does not take itself too seriously, but the performances are pretty well done and earnest when they need to be.
44:15 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, there is some kind of like fun little creepy stuff and like a little bit of scares.
44:20 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's, and there's some, and some of those frenetic choices, especially when Michael is getting like full vampy, right?
44:29 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_03]: He's with the guys and they're all watching the, well, by the way, Joe Schumacher loves people dancing around a bonfire.
44:35 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_03]: So they get the bonfire that's seen where they're dancing around to walk this way by Rundee MC and Aerosmith.
44:42 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_03]: and they're all looking and they're all getting ready to feed.
44:46 --> 44:52 [SPEAKER_03]: There is some like, really like, kind of herky, jerky camera angles and real crazy close.
44:52 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_03]: That's really creating a sense of terror and sense of sort of frenetic energy and it's just, and it is very MTV-ish, but it's easy to, it goes with everything that's happening.
45:05 --> 45:08 [SPEAKER_03]: So it helps set that tone and that move.
45:08 --> 45:11 [SPEAKER_03]: In flat liners, like none of that is happening.
45:13 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_03]: The lot of the fancy camera work is just on display.
45:19 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't move you to a point of fear.
45:23 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't really move you to a point of terror.
45:25 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_03]: Even when he's in his room waiting for locked, he's like, made it so that Billy Mahoney can't break in.
45:31 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_03]: And I never felt nervous for him.
45:35 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's part of the problem is that
45:39 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_01]: This kid, you know, I guess I just kind of guessed that Kiefer Sutherland had done something that made him deserve this.
45:48 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_03]: Is there a point really where you feel bad for a Kiefer Sutherland ever?
45:55 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_01]: No, not even toward the end, because even when he's falling out of the tree toward the end, he's on the ground helpless before he says I'm sorry.
46:07 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
46:08 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
46:09 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you sorry?
46:11 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Or are you still the guy who is sort of mocking his grave site?
46:16 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're just saying that to get him to stop hitting you or something.
46:20 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:21 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
46:22 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_03]: No.
46:22 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_03]: And so that's a thing.
46:23 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's there's a lot about this movie that doesn't deliver.
46:28 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_03]: But going back to your earlier statement, I think it's super watchable.
46:33 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of enjoyed the experience.
46:35 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it was kind of an experience where I'm like, I've always wanted to see this.
46:40 --> 46:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a movie with a pretty original conceit.
46:45 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I think was there was, I think that there was a remake of this.
46:51 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
46:52 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen the remake?
46:54 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_03]: No, I have.
46:54 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_03]: And I hear it truly bad.
46:55 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_03]: However, I am interested now because I didn't realize that Keith Russel has like a cameo or he's in it.
47:01 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's a regional script so that he was supposed to be playing the character again.
47:07 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_03]: And then, but he doesn't play that character.
47:08 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_03]: He plays a different character.
47:09 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But I guess it was a sequel.
47:11 --> 47:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a remit.
47:12 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a deleted scene that connects that it is him just with a different name.
47:16 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_03]: He's changed.
47:17 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_03]: It was supposed to lead.
47:18 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, I would
47:20 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_03]: I will, you probably won't, this won't matter a lot to you because you're much healthier person than I am, but the Taco Bell is released its decades menu, it's revisiting some of the hot items from the past.
47:39 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_03]: One of them is the chili cheese burrito.
47:50 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_03]: flat liners is the chili cheese burrito.
47:53 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I want you to know that I would never darken the door of a Taco Bell.
47:58 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_01]: But I have such fun memories of the chili cheese burrito.
48:01 --> 48:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I just had to see if it tastes the same.
48:02 --> 48:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It tastes exactly the same.
48:04 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_03]: It's exactly the same.
48:06 --> 48:15 [SPEAKER_03]: And chili cheese burritos a thing that when I, whenever the last time I had had one prior to it, it's return, I never missed it.
48:15 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_03]: I never thought about.
48:17 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_03]: But the fact that it was there, I was like, well, I got a, I got a, I got a taste this.
48:22 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's, it's an imperfectly put together meal.
48:29 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_03]: But it transports me to a time.
48:31 --> 48:34 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's, it's over fast enough.
48:35 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's, it's like flat liners is a chili cheese burrito.
48:41 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_03]: I will not miss it when I've stopped watching it.
48:43 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_03]: But if it's back,
48:45 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, let's see if this tastes the same, and it does.
48:48 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I like it, I like it a lot.
48:52 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for me, it was like, is this really going to be, sort of, I was a little skeptical.
48:57 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, is this really going to be a cheerleaders?
48:58 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Is this sort of your take talk about it?
49:02 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally, yeah.
49:03 --> 49:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Of what it used to be.
49:05 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I tasted it, it was like, this is exactly the same.
49:09 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But I haven't thought about it since.
49:11 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: It hasn't been like, well, now I got to go and have another one.
49:15 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_01]: sort of like, no, it was this is the same.
49:18 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It's still a challenge.
49:18 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_01]: She's pretty, though.
49:20 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
49:20 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've had that experience as an adult, and I think I'm okay.
49:24 --> 49:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm like a move on now.
49:26 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I took a bite.
49:27 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm sitting across from the Santa Rosa Junior College at the Taco Bell there.
49:32 --> 49:33 [SPEAKER_03]: Is that right?
49:33 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Which we in between classes.
49:35 --> 49:35 [SPEAKER_03]: Just see.
49:35 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_03]: That's all up.
49:36 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_03]: That's all.
49:36 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_03]: I was transported back to sitting there.
49:39 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_03]: you know, scrounge of her change.
49:41 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that, I mean, that to me that that was it because that was, that was my first talk about.
49:46 --> 49:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
49:47 --> 49:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that was sort of, you know, it was something you could walk to.
49:51 --> 49:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you, Achilles, she's pretty.
49:53 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like 79 cents exactly.
49:55 --> 50:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And if I needed just to have something in between classes, that was a choice.
50:04 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like it.
50:05 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So on the Ron Howard scale,
50:08 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a Howard plus chili cheese burrito.
50:11 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, right.
50:12 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
50:12 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
50:13 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_03]: Good.
50:15 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_03]: It's properly chili cheese.
50:17 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Very good.
50:18 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad we settled on that.
50:21 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a half the battle when the ground moment in this moment?
50:26 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
50:28 --> 50:30 [SPEAKER_03]: Pretend you can't find the paddles when Billy Baldwin is flat.
50:43 --> 50:45 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
51:49 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on, and a cocoon of horror.