Steve and Anthony get blue pilled by the Bourne Legacy.
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00:19 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to Properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other post-fiction.
00:25 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Today we take a look at the 2012 The Born Legacy.
00:29 --> 00:35 [SPEAKER_04]: The Born Legacy is a movie about Super Spies where one of the Hulk's is Hunting Haka, who gets a little help from the Moon Knight.
00:36 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_04]: With me to discuss this film as always is Dr. Anthony LaDoc.
00:41 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Edward Norton was a Hulk.
00:49 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_04]: born legacy.
00:50 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure which one that is.
00:55 --> 01:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that the born supremacy or is that an entirely different movie?
01:00 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_04]: The born a Gemini.
01:05 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a problem with these movies.
01:07 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_02]: In the 80s, we'd make these things simple.
01:09 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_02]: One, two.
01:10 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_02]: It was Rocky, two, first blood.
01:14 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you really have to research
01:17 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_02]: the order and which to watch these things right because you know after I like this movie lot it has a lot of problems in many ways it's it's like the definition of a cash grab and for some reason it's my favorite born movie
01:32 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And then after I watched this movie, I thought, okay, so I think that this overlaps with the born ultimatum.
01:40 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I believe so.
01:41 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe then maybe the night I'll just watch the born ultimatum again.
01:45 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I purchased the born supremacy.
01:48 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:49 --> 01:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Those are different.
01:49 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Those are two different movies entirely.
01:51 --> 01:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I just started watching the birth of supremacy.
01:54 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_02]: That is pretty good movies.
01:56 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't know which one is my favorite because I don't know which one is with.
02:00 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_04]: We actually, and here's the thing, I've watched these born movies.
02:04 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_04]: This is the first time I've ever seen the born legacy.
02:05 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I've watched the other borns, like, I don't know, a bunch, go bunch.
02:12 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_04]: And we'll go through them.
02:14 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know if there's a movie series I enjoy as much as the born series without really being able to tell you what I've seen.
02:27 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they kind of blend together.
02:29 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this one stands out for sure because, you know, there's not in water as much
02:36 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_02]: as it feels like in the boring movie's Matt Damon's like super wet oh yeah but at least they do an homage to that at the beginning of this movie drew um this movie has a lot of problems I mean I can just imagine the conversations that had to happen for this movie to get off the ground you know it's like well it this trilogy is beloved and people are pretty happy with
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_02]: can we make another one?
03:04 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like, well, of course, people will go to see a born movie.
03:10 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So there's money to be had.
03:11 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but are they going to see Matt Damon?
03:14 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Probably.
03:15 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Can we get him?
03:16 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: No.
03:18 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_02]: can we get green grass because he's directed all of these now can we can we lower the stakes and make it more sciencey sure i don't know how it helps us i don't know i mean the this movie has so many problems and i just love it to death i i think it's i think it's i think it's the best of the born movies um and it just happened i i think i think i probably stumbled upon this
03:48 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think anyone went to see this movie thinking, hopefully we'll see a photograph of Matt Damon at some point.
03:55 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_04]: They're probably thinking that like Jeremy Runner would take off his mask mission and positive smile reveal that he was Matt Damon that a lot of time.
04:05 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, and I think they're smart in one end, right?
04:07 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_04]: They didn't try to like, they didn't James Bond it, right?
04:10 --> 04:13 [SPEAKER_04]: We're like, well, we're just going to have different boards.
04:13 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's also worth talking about just the notion
04:19 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I mean, we grew up with this, right?
04:21 --> 04:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Like our parents were like, James Bond is Sean Connery and Sean Connery is James Bond, those two are, you know, intrinsically linked.
04:28 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_04]: And I remember, I like, I get a new Roger Moore was James Bond, but I wasn't like crazy about James Bond.
04:36 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_04]: But then there was so much more discussion in our life around who's gonna be the next James, is there's just a given that they're gonna replace James Bond.
04:44 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_04]: And you have to, it's just, there's,
04:47 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_04]: You have to make 1 of these movies, and there's just not enough time in any one person's life.
04:52 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_02]: James Bond is an interesting problem because it's a popcorn movie, everyone knows it, it's violence and sex is right on the cover.
05:01 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_02]: You're pretty aware of what you're gonna get.
05:03 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's going to be a sexy scientist who's like first name is a labia.
05:06 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_02]: So here's the thing about this.
05:12 --> 05:15 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, you're not going to take it too seriously.
05:15 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And so why take the actors very seriously?
05:19 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
05:19 --> 05:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that was kind of how I came up with it.
05:22 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, but it could be that our pants generation had stronger opinions on this because it was a beloved franchise.
05:31 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_04]: But other franchise maybe there was less I think they just had less stuff like a thing is I think I think these types of things matter more when there's less when you have less movies right I mean they just had the word less movies being made less big movies being made especially and so as as as these industries expand I think it's harder to that's what you have like the marble series is so.
05:53 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, has been so successful is because you can, you can just just sort of keep turning these things out and you can actually, if you want, you can, if you want to be a comic book, you can just replace these people because in the comic books sometimes different people are these alter egos and it's just, it's so you can do that, right?
06:10 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And like, you could probably make the argument in Spider-Man, right?
06:13 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_04]: It's maybe our generations discussion.
06:17 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_02]: about like, ah, no, I'm a Toby McGuire, where my son has kind of like an interest for the Andrew Garfield, you know, and my son is all in for Spiderman, like for him, knowing can hold a candle to Miles Morales and so.
06:33 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
06:33 --> 06:35 [SPEAKER_04]: See, that's see, that's fascinating.
06:35 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's bizarre, but it's one of these things where it's like
06:39 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Look, if I was going to draw an analogy here, I love hunt for out October.
06:46 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I love out Baldwin in that role.
06:48 --> 06:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And then as soon as it was Harrison Ford, I felt like you found the part of that movie that was a more action-y kind of movie.
06:57 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And you thought, well, let's get an action hero to start in this.
07:01 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_02]: and all of a sudden, it's not spycraft anymore, it's an action hero, right?
07:06 --> 07:10 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I just don't like those other movies nearly as much as I love hunt for a October.
07:12 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like most people who are big fans of the born franchise, all in for their guy, and because of that, this movie is either hated or kind of the unwanted stepchild, or just hasn't been seen.
07:29 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, like I never saw it, right, for that, because I was just kind of like, I, not that I was getting born fatigue, but I'm like, I like what is going on here.
07:36 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the story of Jason Bourne, and then this is like, and it did, this felt so, like again, like Bourne adjacent, that it was like, well, well, is this expanding the universe?
07:49 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Do I need this universe expanded, or do I actually kind of like, maybe the more narrow focus of the universe, right?
07:54 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_04]: So, um, and that's maybe one of the issues that why I'm sort of like,
07:59 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_04]: on Marvel movies these days is just because the universe just got bigger and bigger and bigger and I'm like, I can't keep up.
08:06 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and you get the idea that there's no consequences, right?
08:10 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Because you can kill someone off and the next film doesn't really matter, right?
08:16 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_02]: But that is kind of the nature of the comic book experience.
08:20 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me ask you this question.
08:21 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, this may be in foreshadows, maybe you are Moon Raker conversation, which I have not seen.
08:29 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you need a good character, part of telling the story of a character is that the audience has to know what this character's deficit is.
08:38 --> 08:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Like what problem are they trying to solve?
08:42 --> 08:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I assume he's searching for a cure for her piece.
08:47 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Like if I was going to answer like you're seeing a lot of bomb movies, I don't have like a particular affection for the franchise, it's like what does he want?
08:58 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he wants to be a great super spy and for him that means having sex with a lot of women and killing a lot of bad guys.
09:07 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, he's just a spy with a mission, right?
09:09 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_04]: He's just got he's got assignments, so it's like we're dropping
09:14 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_04]: his, like work, right, I mean, that's kind of what I always took from it.
09:19 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_04]: He's, and he's not a great spy.
09:21 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_04]: His job is just more exciting than your job.
09:23 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_04]: His catchphrase is to tell you what his name is.
09:25 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_04]: What kind of spy is that?
09:30 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_04]: That's just weird, right?
09:33 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I got like, oh, here you got this fake past toward this disguise, but let me tell you a little something about me.
09:41 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, even just mix the drink order up a little bit, man.
09:46 --> 09:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like goodness movie.
09:48 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty clear what I mean with I guess let's I mean you start with the first born movie.
09:54 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_02]: He just is trying to find out who he is, right?
09:57 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a pretty good premise.
09:59 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a superpowers and amnesia.
10:02 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, if you just told me that was the premise, like he's a super spy, he's got amnesia.
10:08 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't know why he has these super powers.
10:12 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And the whole movie is a mystery to figure out who he is.
10:16 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, that sounds fantastic.
10:18 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_02]: I signed me up.
10:19 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_02]: In this movie, Jeremy Renner just wants more drugs.
10:24 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Because if he doesn't get more drugs, he's going to go back to
10:31 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
10:32 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, it's a little more complicated.
10:34 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's like, well, you know, really, it's a little bit more complicated.
10:38 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Because I mean, yeah, it's complicated in the sense that, oh, no, I have to get my drugs and the Philippines.
10:44 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_02]: It's complicated in that I was doing my job.
10:47 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I did everything that they asked me to do.
10:49 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And they just decided that I was disposable.
10:51 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And now the greatest military apparatus that's ever existed is trying to hunt me down and kill me.
11:02 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I better keep my IQ up because we don't have a chance otherwise.
11:07 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's kind of like the bus in speed.
11:14 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I love it, man.
11:15 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_02]: I love it so much.
11:16 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_02]: The movie's fantastic.
11:18 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_02]: I am a big Tony Guroi fan.
11:20 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_02]: I think this was his directorial debut.
11:24 --> 11:26 [SPEAKER_02]: Huge Michael Clayton fan, huge indoor fan.
11:28 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_02]: I think what he does better than anyone is he's going to
11:32 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_02]: look at a world and study it intently and figure out like, what's interesting about the minutia of this world, let's center the plot around that, like a huge plot point of this is that pharmaceutical companies contract out their work to the Philippines.
11:53 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_02]: And so there's not going to be an easy way to solve your problem, buddy.
11:57 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_02]: and I like that he does that I like that he he he he finds something interesting about the Death Star and decides well let's do a whole season on the plant that makes these cogs that make the Death Star work and make that that make the the kind of the social situation around that an interesting plot point.
12:17 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm kind of weird when it comes to these things because I'm not a big action hero fan, you know action movie fan, I can kind of like tolerate a really slow opening to a movie.
12:31 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't mind the kind of the reboot nature of this, because I think the writing is really great.
12:40 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the acting around this is really great.
12:43 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And the one fatal flaws that you don't have Matt Damon, which is fine.
12:46 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he can be a cameo.
12:48 --> 12:54 [SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of like the master of the cameo for every other movie, but the born franchise.
12:55 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just revisit this one because this is the best written of all of the born movies.
13:02 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's very well written.
13:04 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's overwritten.
13:08 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
13:09 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
13:09 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Say more about that.
13:11 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm watching this and I'm finding myself kind of at odds with myself because on one hand, I'm like watching this the sequence where, you know,
13:23 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_04]: is in her home, and she's kind of being low key interrogated, right?
13:29 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_04]: While her house is being searched, and they're basically setting her up for a foe suicide, right?
13:37 --> 13:52 [SPEAKER_04]: And, and I'm watching this and I'm on one hand, I'm like, I really am appreciating how patient this is to sort of work this situation through and kind of build the tension
13:53 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I'm also like, at the same time going, is this, is this going to pay off?
13:59 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, it kind of does, kind of doesn't.
14:02 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of elements to it that almost feel like, you wrote kind of a really interesting back and forth.
14:10 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And you really created this very intriguing scene.
14:14 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_04]: And it takes up so much of the movie that.
14:20 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's, and so it's like, it's payoff was itself.
14:26 --> 14:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And on one hand, I really appreciated it.
14:27 --> 14:31 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm all I like this kind of patience in a movie like this.
14:32 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_04]: But at the same time, this movie is not like this.
14:37 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_04]: It's going to have to have a running chasing, a car chasing.
14:43 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_04]: It's going to have to have all of those things.
14:46 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And I know it's going to happen.
14:48 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_04]: So that when you have these moments of patience and like, well, I'm going to get betrayed by this because that's not where this movie's going and all of this back and forth does really nothing to sort of move those other pieces forward it adds a whole lot of color and it adds a whole lot of of layers, but it's not going it doesn't it doesn't do anything but that and so.
15:13 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_04]: knowing that so what there's a point in the movie where I look and I'm like there's only 20 minutes left of this movie I'm like so really that's all he's trying to do All he's trying to do is get get catch get the flu get over the flu and be superhuman But then go and then just go in about It's a ending the ending the big problem.
15:34 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_04]: He he goes through all this effort and she goes through all this effort Just so she can have like the coolest boyfriend on on the back
15:42 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I need this a big problem, but I am going to stump for that particular scene.
15:48 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Again, I actually think it's a great scene.
15:50 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I just also know that it doesn't, like, but again, what I'm saying, I'm like, yeah, this is a movie that knows it's well written.
15:56 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_04]: And every bit of dialogue is even when it's really being an ex-position bomb, it still works.
16:05 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think I think Giroi directs his writing very well, but then he has to also make this
16:12 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a bit of dialogue that comes right after the scene you were describing.
16:15 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Now pick a place you live the last place you live the place you know.
16:18 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Bethesda.
16:19 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Bethesda, and that's where you live anybody asked you.
16:21 --> 16:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Jumanro from Bethesda.
16:22 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: The lost your wallet, I'm driving you home.
16:24 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: My name is James.
16:24 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: James and June, you got it?
16:26 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:26 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
16:31 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that your name?
16:33 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_01]: James?
16:35 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: No, what?
16:36 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't know my name?
16:39 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you call me?
16:40 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_01]: You put in my blood work.
16:42 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_03]: Five.
16:43 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Five, the number five?
16:48 --> 16:49 [SPEAKER_01]: In how many times we've met?
16:49 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_01]: 13.
16:50 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_01]: 13 exams over the last four years.
16:54 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I get on number five.
16:56 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So, I think that's a great scene.
16:58 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_02]: Number one, I love both these actors.
17:01 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I love Rachel Vice of a lot.
17:03 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what they're trying to tell with her story
17:08 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_02]: how can a really smart person who's maybe like at the top of their field as a scientist be so naive when it comes to figuring out what they're actually what their work is actually doing in the world and in order for the US military to continue to do the kinds of things that it does.
17:28 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_02]: you need a thousand of these people who are just in it for the science, like they don't ask questions, they don't find out who the names are of their their super soldiers that they're building.
17:39 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_02]: These people are just part of the machinery and they do what they do really well and as long as they're not asking bigger questions, the machine can keep functioning the way
17:58 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they come to her house, they're ransacking the house, they're asking her questions.
18:03 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I think she does a fantastic job of like explaining why she's put out by this.
18:12 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_02]: I, right, I just had my entire lab shot up.
18:15 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_02]: And now I'm on the suspect here.
18:19 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_02]: And yet the the voice on the other side is like, look, I know this is traumatic and you got to answer a couple questions so that you can go visit your sister and I'm thinking that's probably exactly how I'd act in that situation.
18:33 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Because someone who is really smart can also be really naive and that's hard to pull off in a movie.
18:40 --> 18:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you needed a character like that in a movie like this and I feel like I haven't seen that done many times in a spy thriller like this.
18:51 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I guess for me We used the term spy thriller because we know he's a spy But he's not spying well Jason Bourne was never really spying he was sort of like a he's part of a kill squad or something
19:09 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Spy thrillers are really weird because James Bond is, he doesn't do a lot of spying either.
19:16 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_02]: No, there's a sense in which this whole thing is like you say is a build up to a big action sequence.
19:24 --> 19:38 [SPEAKER_02]: But embedded in this movie are some really hard questions about like, is it okay for someone to be in on the Nazi science just because they're really really good at science and they love doing their job?
19:39 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is the kind of movie it's like, well, we're going to interrogate that a little bit, but we're going to, we're going to make the medicine go down with a super cool motorcycle chase.
19:49 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_04]: I like it.
19:50 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I like it.
19:50 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Does this movie suffer by being called the born legacy?
19:57 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I like the balls of putting born in the title.
20:02 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
20:03 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_02]: This is like the team moved to the board movies.
20:07 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, it is.
20:09 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Because you've still got you have some overlapping people for sure.
20:12 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, styles isn't it at least styles is played by styles.
20:16 --> 20:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Edward Norton is in this movie.
20:18 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Like this this movie is stacked.
20:21 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_02]: This movie is well written.
20:22 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's got you know it's got Oscar Isaac before he's like actually a guy can carry a movie.
20:32 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_04]: You got some Stacey Keat, your giant Middle East heart thinking of escape from LA.
20:36 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_02]: So Stacey Keat, I've got written down as the doppelganger of Brian Denny because as soon as he came on the screen, I was like, oh, Brian Denny, he's still alive.
20:46 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_02]: No, that stays a huge, who I actually thought had died before, right, and anyway.
20:54 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, there's a lot about this movie that doesn't work, and I'll get into that in a minute.
20:59 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_02]: But overall, kind of curious, you had never seen this before.
21:03 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_02]: You probably knew that I liked it, because that's why I chose it.
21:09 --> 21:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Were you able to enjoy this movie?
21:13 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's an enjoyable movie.
21:15 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's better than the tomato meters suggest.
21:21 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a clever idea, right?
21:25 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Right out the gate, I was like, oh, this is kind of a cool idea.
21:28 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I like this.
21:29 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_04]: If you're going to do something with the born movies, without, you know, born without born essentially, you know,
21:39 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_04]: And by the way, they should make another sequel words, Matt Damon again, and it's called Stillborn, but that's different.
21:46 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I think, so I like the idea, my, all right, OK, I actually, I think this is an immediate enough idea.
21:54 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_04]: And so what I'm thinking in the beginning of the movie is I'm like, I know Anthony likes us.
21:59 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_04]: I know that most people didn't.
22:03 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_04]: And right out the gate, the idea seems interesting.
22:05 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_04]: So my thought is,
22:07 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I wonder what's going to go wrong.
22:08 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_04]: So now I'm watching this movie with the different lens, right?
22:11 --> 22:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Because I'm like, oh, is this rocky three, right?
22:15 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Because like if I if I told you the plot, like we talk about it, if I tell you the plot of rocky three, that's actually a really interesting way to go about exploring this character, actually further.
22:26 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Like rocky three suggests a very interesting,
22:32 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_04]: new chapter in this character's life, and then it becomes Mr. T and I of the tiger.
22:41 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And this movie, Rocky Threes in some ways, because it's like, like I said, I'm like, I know you've created a really interesting idea.
22:47 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_04]: You've got some really juicy dialogue.
22:49 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_04]: You've been very patient.
22:51 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And you're gonna Mr. T and I of the tiger me with that some point in the, and they did, right?
22:57 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_04]: The movie is like, all right, here we go, chase scenes.
23:00 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And again, I don't mind the chase scene,
23:03 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I realize, oh, that's kind of the point now, which is a very interesting choice, right?
23:10 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_04]: You build this world and you, and you sort of open up these gates to this idea that's like, well, this is a pretty intriguing, and then, and then the payoff was just, but then he gets, and then he gets it.
23:23 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_04]: And then now he's super knuckle.
23:26 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_02]: That's that's the problem that I and I think I'm going to do my by tweak now.
23:31 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't this movie significantly better if he tries to virus himself out at the end and dies.
23:42 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And at the end of the day, it's like she's on the run.
23:45 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_02]: He dies in the hotel or he dies on the motorcycle or something.
23:50 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't work.
23:51 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_02]: The science doesn't work.
23:53 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_02]: and now he's dead because you kill them off anyway it's not like renters attached to this franchise anymore right and you could still kind of have the ending the way it is with her on the run.
24:08 --> 24:15 [SPEAKER_02]: and sort of now she's got this knowledge that she doesn't know what to do with, but she's kind of has a superpower because she's the person that developed the science.
24:16 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_02]: That to me is a lot more interesting.
24:18 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_02]: This movie instead of sort of giving him his drug fix at the end that makes him a
24:36 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_02]: If Render dies in the end, it's a better point for me.
24:40 --> 24:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I could get on board with that.
24:41 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_04]: I also was kind of hoping for.
24:42 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_04]: I was expecting, and then when it didn't happen, I was kind of bummed out.
24:46 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_04]: It was like, OK, he's got this virus.
24:49 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And I would have liked a lot of them.
24:51 --> 24:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, I would thought that it was going to be building towards if they're on the run.
24:55 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_04]: And she's having to do a lot of heavy lifting.
24:58 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Because they've got to keep moving.
25:00 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And he's just getting sicker and sicker.
25:03 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_04]: And then you get to this point where it looks like, there's just nothing, he looks like he's just laid out and super soldier is about to do something to her and all of a sudden his wrist gets grabbed and now renners activate it.
25:20 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I kind of wanted that.
25:21 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_04]: I kind of thought that's where we were going and I was like, I'm glad the steady falls asleep on a motorcycle.
25:28 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I know.
25:30 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's funny because a part of you it was like that's going to be that would be super cliche, but you kind of want it that would be gay trope that I like Yeah, and they didn't give it to me.
25:40 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.
25:42 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that the wolf sequence at the beginning goes on for like, like, we're about 30 minutes in before he actually gets out of the snow.
25:50 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I really like that slow burn and the payoff for that is not just that
26:00 --> 26:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And so he can kind of see like what they're willing to do to him if he doesn't figure out a way out of this.
26:08 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_02]: But in addition to that, there's this question about is he a human?
26:14 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Why are these, why was acting like this?
26:16 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Wolves do not track humans like this.
26:20 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And Isaac said, well, maybe they don't think you're a human.
26:23 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's, there's almost a suggestion here that there's some kind of genetic enhancement that pushes him past, I guess,
26:38 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And so the movie's playing with that a little bit.
26:40 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Like if you're a super soldier, can you be a human anymore?
26:44 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you have the ethics of a human anymore?
26:47 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Well obviously not killed the wolf and I don't love it.
26:49 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that it's a real wolf.
26:50 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that it was in a CGI wolf.
26:53 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_02]: That was fantastic.
26:56 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I love the exchange between here I'll play, I'll play you the exchange.
27:02 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So trying to figure out if you're supposed to kill me
27:10 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Aren't we wired to stick our nose in?
27:12 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You and I?
27:13 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not another person for 300 miles.
27:16 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I know nobody's listening, so come on.
27:17 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You gotta give me something.
27:18 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me, come on!
27:22 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do they pull you off the field and put you up here?
27:26 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not physical.
27:27 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_00]: The way you've been moving, so what'd you do?
27:30 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Turn out assignment?
27:31 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Start thinking for yourself.
27:34 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Fall in love?
27:39 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_00]: and fell in love.
27:45 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's another little element.
27:47 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And it does sort of tie you into the born franchise here.
27:51 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, if you allow yourself to be made more than human, can you still have the experiences of other regular humans, and including falling in love?
28:05 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_02]: And you get the idea that if you do,
28:09 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_02]: the consequences that you might wind up in Alberta, wherever they are.
28:14 --> 28:28 [SPEAKER_02]: It does a lot to humanize renters character and show his central problem early enough in the movie for me to, you know, he doesn't have a lot of conversations with a lot of people, but that was enough for me.
28:29 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't feel like it was overwritten.
28:30 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I think that was actually, those were good setups.
28:39 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_04]: right into when he and the doctor start going on the run.
28:45 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And then I just, and again, I'm not, I didn't dislike what was going on.
28:51 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I just was like, huh, that's, this is where it's going.
28:54 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, the stakes are really odd.
29:00 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_02]: for, you know, the world isn't saved at the end.
29:02 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_02]: They don't find some super computer.
29:04 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_04]: They don't eliminate revealed it to, you know.
29:11 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, you know, expose all our, they don't meant military.
29:14 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they don't expose anyone.
29:16 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_02]: There's no knocklists that's recovered.
29:20 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's just, the stakes are just like this guy gets to survive.
29:25 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_02]: at the end.
29:27 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's just not enough for a spy thriller to make it a spy thriller and I think that's fine.
29:35 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that I like about this is that there's this one tiny little scene where Renner just looks like he's been beaten to a pulp and he's got like one red eye.
29:52 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_02]: And they say, and he says, can I stay here?
29:55 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And the voice says, do you want to stay here?
29:59 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And he says, yes, and he says, well, that's good to know.
30:04 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It's such a small clip, but it does so much to tell you that they broke this guy down psychologically.
30:12 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
30:12 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think in the hands of a different director or writer, they would have that would have been the opening ten minutes of the film, you know, to show how he's been psychologically abused and broken down.
30:23 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's how he became this.
30:26 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_02]: But they were able to tell that story in literally 15 seconds.
30:32 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And it does all the heavy lifting that you need to tell me that this particular character went through something just horrific to become the super soldier that he is now.
30:48 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_02]: So Steve, I gave you my one tweak to the movie.
30:52 --> 30:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you have a tweak that you think they would improve as the one I would have liked him to have been like come alive at the last second.
31:00 --> 31:02 [SPEAKER_02]: You've seen a million movies that do that.
31:03 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this is not a very different movie that I've seen from other things.
31:08 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_04]: So don't, don't, don't.
31:11 --> 31:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, because I don't, I don't.
31:13 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Or make the ending such that like,
31:18 --> 31:27 [SPEAKER_04]: either leave it on a cliffhanger, you know, so that way it feels, because if a lot of this movie when I saw that was only like 20 minutes left, I'm like, oh, this movie is kind of a prologue to something else.
31:28 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_02]: It really did feel like they were trying to reboot it.
31:31 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, well, it was like, but baby not.
31:34 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be loud by Jeremy Renner and they're like, they're going to leave and think, well, well, what's next?
31:41 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_02]: What's going to happen next with these guys?
31:43 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Didn't happen.
31:44 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Didn't happen.
31:45 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Here's here's, here's, I think for me, like you said the fatal flaws no maddened.
31:50 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Here's my fatal flaw for this movie.
31:53 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Did it still this plot down?
31:55 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Jeremy Renner.
31:58 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_04]: is off the grid, everybody thinks he's dead.
32:01 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And he wants to live a normal life where he's not being chased or being asked to do any of the, you know, any of this spy stuff.
32:11 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
32:12 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So in order for him to do that, he has to go back into action, reveal that he's alive so that he can go and get a special viral implant that will give him super strength and super intelligence so that he can go back to hiding and being off the grid.
32:31 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that he can, I don't think he trusts the dumb dumb version of himself to be good enough to hide from the government.
32:42 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_04]: Why go out of your way to let them know you're alive or put yourself in that situation?
32:48 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_04]: The super smart version of him could have figured out.
32:52 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Well...
32:52 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I can go ahead and just be dumb elsewhere, because I don't think this works, I guess nobody's looking for me.
33:00 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I can see that I can see where you're going here.
33:03 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it works.
33:05 --> 33:13 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that this is exactly what Jason Borden tried to do in the Borden supremacy, he tried to go off the grid and stay in hiding.
33:13 --> 33:17 [SPEAKER_02]: and what this franchises told us is that you can never stay in hiding.
33:18 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_02]: You always have to be on the run.
33:19 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And in order for it him to be on the run he's got to be a super smart because like if you were going to go on a hiding what would you do?
33:27 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean with with with the technology and the world the way it is right now
33:34 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, what would you give yourself a week?
33:36 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, like, how well would you do with your brain on the run in hiding from the US government?
33:44 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I guess the trick there is, does the US government think I'm dead and is therefore not looking for me?
33:54 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Because that's how this movie, he does a lot of work with a wolf to make that happen.
34:04 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_04]: in the beginning.
34:06 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And then, but because it, he kind of got greedy.
34:09 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't want to not be.
34:11 --> 34:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
34:12 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think that you could definitely read it that way.
34:14 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_02]: That he, he's addicted to the limitless drug or whatever.
34:20 --> 34:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen Limitless with Bradley Cooper?
34:23 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_04]: No, in fact, it's a movie that I've convinced myself I've seen because I've seen enough like trailers and go, yeah, get it.
34:31 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a it's a stupid fun movie.
34:34 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's really it's really worth having fun with.
34:37 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_02]: I do I do think that there's something about him wondering what happens to him Because he's he is brain just gonna turn to mush right and man how much better is that it if that was the sequel?
34:53 --> 34:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Well I think I was gonna say really really really dumb Jeremy Renner
35:00 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Accidentally escaping the government.
35:04 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I think another tweak that you could make to this movie is, show me someone who has been off of the blues and the greens indefinitely, and show me what the consequences for that are.
35:17 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, introduce.
35:19 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that gives some more motivation, right?
35:20 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, maybe they're like a vegetable, right?
35:24 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly, and think, you know, give him sort of like a visual consequence, like if I don't figure this out, and if I don't, if I don't go find the scientist that knows the science, I'm going to turn into that, because then you could have, you can even have that dial up.
35:42 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so that way it sort of explains what like where they're just like, look, you're, they already think you're dead.
35:46 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_04]: What are we doing?
35:47 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Why are you going through this?
35:49 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I got to give myself one more chance because if I, you know, I will be dead, you know, something, because I think that that's just a, because like the stakes feel like that, the stakes that he's going through are just feel self-inflicted.
36:04 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, here's the thing.
36:05 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Like this is a person who has,
36:09 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_02]: turned his body into a weapon at the behest of the U.S. government.
36:14 --> 36:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Is this the kind of person who's going to move to the Midwest and become a farmer to stay under the, you know, off the grid?
36:25 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Or is this the kind of person who's going to use his superpowers to try to beat the government at their own game?
36:35 --> 36:42 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of, I kind of think that maybe he doesn't have to be that ethical to just try to find the drugs and stay on the drugs.
36:43 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like that's maybe more realistic, like maybe he's addicted and that's why they try to get another fix.
36:52 --> 36:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I mean, okay, then maybe make him a little more complicated and then do something with that, right?
36:58 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I feel like nothing was really this movie.
37:02 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_04]: banks on the idea that you're like, look, he's not Jason Bourne, but like, once you want to, don't you want to see more Jason Bourne things, and, and I feel like it introduces, it introduces better ideas than what it, at the end, ultimately executes.
37:20 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think you're, you're left with like, oh, you, you teased me, you teased me with a
37:32 --> 37:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I almost knew the motorcycle chase before it even happened.
37:37 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like the running on the roofs that's gonna transition cars and then it's gonna end up on a boat.
37:42 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that is, can I just, can I say one more thing about the ending?
37:48 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_02]: And that is that most car chase scenes, I just, it's just a total snooze fest for me because I just think you can't do that with cars.
37:59 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Like there's just traffic.
38:02 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Like whenever I see like a, like cars like driving the wrong way against traffic, you're dead in two seconds.
38:10 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_02]: You're dead in less than two seconds.
38:12 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not gonna work.
38:14 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you make it a motorcycle, now all these things are possible, you can do things with the motorcycle that you can't do with a car.
38:21 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_02]: All of these car chases, if they were just going to change them to motorcycle chases, I would find them much more believable.
38:30 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was thinking about just the burden of a director in an action movie, knowing that it's like,
38:39 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_04]: everything's been done before.
38:41 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
38:41 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_04]: If you hand in a, if you hand in a final movie and there is no car chasing, they're going to be like, okay, so you, this is before you put the car chasing.
38:52 --> 39:08 [SPEAKER_04]: So the burden is you have to have a car chasing and then you, you're have to like make the car chasing somehow somehow somehow has to be some different right something has to be different.
39:08 --> 39:13 [SPEAKER_04]: maybe justify the ride because otherwise it's just another roller coaster.
39:13 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it's part of a franchise, right?
39:15 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is the born franchise and so there is some kind of expectation that you're building to some colossal set piece.
39:26 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So he can actually show his powers in the end.
39:31 --> 39:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.
39:33 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Let me ask you this.
39:33 --> 39:38 [SPEAKER_02]: If you take this movie and you just don't attach
39:40 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
39:41 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_02]: This exists in its own worlds.
39:43 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_02]: You've got all the same actors.
39:46 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_02]: You just delete a few photographs of Matt Damon.
39:50 --> 39:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Can this movies?
39:51 --> 39:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Is this movie better as a sort of a standalone thriller?
39:56 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and that's what I think so.
39:58 --> 40:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it suffers by comparison expectation.
40:06 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like this is a
40:08 --> 40:21 [SPEAKER_04]: This is an interest like it's almost like how it kind of feel like some of the Star Wars prequel stuff, because you spend so much time trying to connect those universes so if they don't connect, then you start losing the story or you wouldn't know the story somewhat.
40:21 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Because you're like, well, that doesn't really connect anymore, and so you have, you know, because because it's part of a franchise, because it's part of this world, you're doing other work
40:38 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_04]: differently.
40:38 --> 40:42 [SPEAKER_04]: You're not just watching it and letting it do its own thing.
40:42 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_04]: You're trying to make it make it exist and make it work.
40:45 --> 40:51 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think the burden of the born franchise kind of doomed this movie from the start.
40:51 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, it doesn't get made unless people want to put this movie out as a cash grab, right?
40:59 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
41:00 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_04]: And his runner does runner do it for you.
41:02 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
41:03 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_02]: He's better in this than any of the
41:08 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And right, I guess it's well because in this he's actually, he's giving you something.
41:13 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_02]: He's Captain America.
41:14 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and then the Marvel movies, it's like, look, there's a guy with a superhuman, you know, strength, this person's got, you know, a suit that can do just about anything, include flying to space.
41:23 --> 41:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but this guy aims so good.
41:27 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that this is, he's, he's a better Hawkeye in this movie than he is in any of the Marvel movies.
41:34 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's that scene at the beginning where you've got those two drone operators and they're like, what kind of system is this guy working with?
41:42 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I think someone else in the scene says, I think he's probably got a rifle.
41:45 --> 41:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And they look at each other like, what what are you talking about?
41:50 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a guy with a rifle that is taking down our drones.
41:55 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought a little hockey moment, like, yeah, you're weapon really sucks, but, but if you aim really well,
42:04 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_02]: can work for you.
42:08 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, is there a triple cliche or device that you liked in this movie?
42:14 --> 42:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I am a bit of a sucker for the, like, oh, but we didn't tell you that we created a super villain.
42:21 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
42:23 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course.
42:24 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_02]: I like a guy who's got a tracking device in his body and he's got to do self surgery to remove it.
42:30 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
42:32 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Every time.
42:33 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, because it makes me think like, would I be able to do that?
42:36 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm probably.
42:38 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I try to get a sliver out the other day and just sort of give up.
42:47 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's properly how I think it's properly added to I do not think it is I don't think it deserves its medicritic or rotten tomatoes rating.
42:59 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I tend to agree I think because I'm I like the born movies better.
43:04 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_04]: It does sort of have that sort of problem where I'm like no don't don't keep reminding me about better movies.
43:09 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was thinking that it's a risk I mean that's a risk you run.
43:13 --> 43:28 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's it's fine to like to unite the universes and sort of work on trying to like okay how do I watch these movies in order how does it make sense that's kind of like that's a fun thing but you kind of got a you got you got to make sure you're going to nail it you know if you're going to pull that off.
43:30 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_02]: All right what about this make it a prequel I mean I guess the technology doesn't really there's no linear connection between the the drugs and the Jason born character.
43:43 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_02]: But if you made it a prequel and you make the big betty at the end, Jason Born instead of the other super soldier.
43:53 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so like Jason Born basically, his assignment was to eliminate all of the others.
43:59 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_02]: this is Jason born before he's had his amnesia and he's still like on gut the government payroll and you know you set this movie in the late eighties or something like this Jason born comes in and kills his renner at the end significantly better movie right that's interesting yeah like that a lot
44:19 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_04]: You just really want to honor to die, sir.
44:21 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're not going to bring them back to the franchise anyway, and they're trying to make some kind of commentary on the bankruptcy, the ethical bankruptcy of the Super Social Program, show me some legitimate consequences here.
44:36 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want the ending to be well now, you get to be cool all the time.
44:41 --> 44:45 [SPEAKER_04]: So, right now you get to be cool and just for fun, exactly.
44:46 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And now you're just super boyfriend.
44:48 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Steve, is there a, when to grow on half the battle moment in this movie.
44:55 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Leave a franchise alone.
44:56 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_02]: And yet if they had done that, I wouldn't have gotten my favorite born movie.
45:00 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_02]: That's fair.
45:03 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess afterwards after Damon saw this, he's like, all right, I'll do another one.
45:10 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_02]: If it's good enough to make Matt Damon jealous,
45:15 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it says something about your movie.
45:18 --> 45:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Makes cut off.
45:20 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_02]: This was not a movie that we selected, and yet it's another Michelle Williams movie.
45:25 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know, interesting.
45:26 --> 45:29 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm looking forward to that.
45:29 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_02]: This is a period.
45:30 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_02]: You've never seen it, yeah.
45:31 --> 45:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Have we, no, never seen it.
45:32 --> 45:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Have we ever done a period piece on properly Howard?
45:36 --> 45:37 [SPEAKER_02]: That's sure.
45:37 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_02]: I guess the drum stroke was Dracula's kind of a period.
45:42 --> 45:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I guess so.
45:43 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
45:43 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I suggest you that I saw Blair Underwood in a, I think a Colone commercial the other day?
45:49 --> 45:51 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm pretty sure he's a vampire.
45:52 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_02]: Blair Underwood is, is Hock and Colone right now.
45:55 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Blair Underwood does not look, it looks like he just stepped off the set of L.A. Law.
46:00 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_02]: He does not look like he's aged a day.
46:03 --> 46:05 [SPEAKER_02]: This is not a normal human being.
46:07 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_02]: So, breaking news right now, Blair Underwood is a vampire.
46:13 --> 46:16 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm more shocked that people in 2026 still want to smell like Blair underwood.
46:20 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Blair underwood may be the handsomeest man he's ever lived.
46:23 --> 46:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, his real name is Blair underworld.
46:30 --> 46:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Can we have a movie titled Blair Underworld?
46:34 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be working on that this afternoon.
46:39 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, yeah, meek is cut off.
46:42 --> 46:43 [SPEAKER_02]: We can pour it back.
47:48 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Come on, and a cocoon of horror.