Steve and Anthony get nowhere with Meek's Cutoff.
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
00:01 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_01]: drive.
00:19 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to Properly Howard, a podcast that reviews classic films and other
00:30 --> 00:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Mixed Cutoff is about a wagon train traveling through Oregon in 1845.
00:34 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
00:37 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_02]: With me to discuss this, as always, is Dr. Anthony Lidon.
00:43 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You've ruined the entire film.
00:47 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, spoiler alert.
00:50 --> 00:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Steve, we got a iTunes review.
00:52 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We'd like to get these.
00:53 --> 00:59 [SPEAKER_02]: We read them on the podcast.
01:01 --> 01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mind.
01:04 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_00]: This one is, uh, it's a five star rating which is nice.
01:09 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
01:10 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be amazing if it was scathing and bi-star.
01:13 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of both, so it's, it's, it's balance your audio.
01:18 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, okay.
01:19 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Great show, but in need of an audio makeover, I have to crank my volume about 25% more than any other podcast I listen to in order to get what they are saying.
01:29 --> 01:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Then when they break for an ad, where the theme song comes on, I end up damn near blowing my ear drums out, get an engineer.
01:40 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like I guess my wife started an account.
01:46 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say, um, I appreciate the feedback, uh, Xcon 75.
01:55 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Xcon 75, let me just say it is a miracle that any of this gets recorded at all.
02:01 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_02]: And often it doesn't.
02:03 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: There are hours upon hours of these podcasts.
02:07 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_00]: that just simply never make the air because someone didn't press record.
02:12 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so they're just for Anthony and me and the Holy Spirit.
02:17 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Holy Spirit, optional.
02:19 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, sometimes involved, you never know.
02:22 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, every saw, only two sets of footprints that was because there was no audience members walking along with this.
02:30 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I appreciate the feedback on the audio.
02:34 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say it's sort of, I mean, look, I really don't do a great job with a lot of things in my life.
02:41 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
02:42 --> 02:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't be careful what you asked for, Xcon 75.
02:48 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be me me and Steve ringing your doorbell three a.m. in the morning to talk about the movie clue.
02:57 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and the other.
02:59 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's your work on it today.
03:00 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_02]: We're doing a different format.
03:02 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_02]: So therefore, I think that we're going to have some of our best audio.
03:05 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_02]: And what a movie to give our best audio attention to.
03:11 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, a movie with almost no audio I honestly that happened to me.
03:18 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: This is I guess it didn't help my it really didn't help my
03:23 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_00]: first encounter with the movie, but, you know, I will often see if the movie we're covering is featuring on a streaming platform that I already purchased, right?
03:36 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, did you two be this?
03:38 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_02]: I ended up having no or peacock.
03:40 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I peacocked it because I subscribed to peacock and I got no audio.
03:49 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, the audio was fine.
03:51 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I got all the ambient noises.
03:53 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: The river was very loud.
03:57 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And the dialogue wasn't happening.
03:58 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And I first thought, this is a very interesting choice.
04:02 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I might be interested to hear what these people are saying to one another.
04:06 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I go to the subtitles and I find out they actually are talking with each other.
04:11 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
04:12 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And I heard, you know, I could hear all the ambient noises.
04:16 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I could hear the grass, wishing.
04:18 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I could hear the strange.
04:20 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, all of the, it was like that one,
04:24 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_00]: that one audio stream.
04:25 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I xcon 75.
04:28 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I experienced something very similar to what you experience when you listen to this podcast.
04:36 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel certain amount of empathy.
04:38 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I thought, oh, geez.
04:40 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if I went to 2B, which is also free with commercials.
04:45 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And I watched it on 2B with commercials because I could actually hear what these people were saying.
04:52 --> 05:19 [SPEAKER_02]: uh... i don't know what was your experience did you see this i'd peacocked it but i don't have uh... like peacocked i love how it's like these streaming channels like i'm like i with my uh... expinity Wi-Fi or whatever uh... shout out expinity uh... i mean i can't call them and tell them shout out because they won't answer but uh... the the one of the perks of overpaying for Wi-Fi is that you get
05:19 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, like a year free of peacock premium and I'm like, ooh premium premium premium is like the lowest you can get on peacock premium sounds like it's it's it's good.
05:30 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
05:30 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
05:30 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's make.
05:31 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's make the worst premium and then there's premium plus and then there's like peacock.
05:37 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, president of the United States platinum or something.
05:40 --> 05:41 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it's it's so this.
05:42 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_02]: So I got the premium.
05:43 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_02]: I fired it up and it was lots of ads and which was nice because the ads every time an habit come on something would happen and that was a nice break.
05:56 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The most exciting part of this movie was the story about the bear that was told on horseback.
06:07 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Very little budget because there were no bears involved.
06:10 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just a guy telling a kid a story about a bear.
06:13 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I appreciate what Kelly Rackhart is trying to do with this film.
06:26 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_02]: yeah for sure yeah yeah it's like that that was always the problem with the westerns is the stories so so you you and i am glad so it finally took plots down a notch you and i were both expecting to enter this movie thinking that there would be a plot yeah shame on me
06:50 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, sometimes these things, you know, you walk in with high expectations and or minimal.
07:01 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you act in with minimal expectations and we're also disappointed?
07:08 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I've rewatched the ending several times because I wasn't, I was always surprised it was over.
07:15 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because of the 2B experience and I saw where the, you know, where the commercials were going to be.
07:21 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I was always kind of aware of how far into the movie I was.
07:26 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
07:29 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, at one point I was like, they're seven minutes left.
07:34 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_02]: This is going to be a hell of a car chase.
07:40 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I had this actually, I think I had maybe the same, maybe that's where the commercial's landed, right?
07:44 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I had this like very, very similar experience.
07:46 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, we're almost over.
07:50 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_02]: And, and even then I was surprised that it was over.
07:54 --> 07:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, oh wait.
07:56 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, did I black out?
07:58 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I thought this movie was interesting for a lot of other reasons that aren't related to like the story.
08:06 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It would have to be.
08:07 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: A part of it is sort of trying to decipher what the director Kelly Reichart, what the director is trying to convey, what message that is this director trying to get across to me.
08:20 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: There are interesting relational dynamics.
08:22 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It really does feel like you're seeing the middle part of a story.
08:26 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know where this begins and you don't know where it ends.
08:30 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And they chose the dullest part of the middle to tell the story.
08:34 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
08:35 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: But it still has characters that might be interesting.
08:40 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, if this was a full movie, it felt like the middle portion of a really
08:51 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, does that make any sense?
08:53 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I felt like I was watching a series and I'm like, all right.
08:56 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is I mean, this is an important and after what we just saw it's kind of nice to have An episode that's just sort of focused on the traveling part and then maybe it'll ramp up in the next episode.
09:09 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_02]: And that would have been a much more fun thing to think.
09:14 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_00]: This was submitted by David.
09:17 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I think in our Discord channel, I think his handle's Davey Mac.
09:22 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He suggested this movie to us because he liked it.
09:26 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to ask him because I asked him if he could jump on, but I guess he's in Japan right now.
09:31 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So I said, well, maybe just send an email and I'll read it.
09:35 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But if I had him on the I was gonna ask him I was like, so do you hate us?
09:45 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Was this be it was this you getting back at us for something we did is this for hero at large
09:53 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And if so, I deserve it, I've done it, he says I really enjoyed your discussion about no country-for-old men and where it fits into the Western genre and it was hoping that you would be able to discuss this film in much the same way.
10:09 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, on the surface, I guess you could say this is a Western, there's wagons, there's bonnets, there's hats, there's guns, there's
10:19 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: uh... you know cowboys and indians you know so in in some ways you could probably say that the genre is a western but you know kelly right cart her films are minimalist their ambiguous they will leave you at the end of the movie thinking wait you can't end there because you didn't you didn't resolve anything
10:47 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: and where was the climax?
10:48 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where the climax was.
10:51 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever seen any other of Kelly records films?
10:55 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't believe I have.
10:56 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I looked at the the filmography and I don't, I don't believe I have.
11:02 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So Sarah and I recently watched a film called The Mastermind.
11:06 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's about an art heist, and I'm thinking, oh man, give me, give me an art heist movie.
11:14 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds fantastic.
11:15 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It was just about a guy named Art Heist that he was eating super hour now.
11:22 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_00]: not much better than what you just described.
11:25 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And there was an art heist, and it was, you know, it was very much like this movie.
11:34 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_02]: And you, with the end of it, most of the movies just then trying to get the painting off the wall, but still.
11:41 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to spoil Mastermind for anyone who wants to jump forward 30 seconds here, but the end of the movie is that this guy runs out of bus fare and just walks down the street and you don't know what happens to him.
11:59 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_00]: he's not really ever find water I don't know it really is kind of this her style of movie making is we're going to continue rolling the cameras till we run out of money and then once we run out of money for film the fact I guess that's when the movie ends yeah and since we have seventy five dollars to work with
12:25 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, I thought the actors were really great.
12:29 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Michelle Williams is sort of fast becoming one of my favorites.
12:34 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I really enjoyed seeing how everyone looked through her eyes.
12:38 --> 12:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of felt like the film was meant to do that.
12:43 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_00]: and i think that the movies kind of a commentary on settle in the west and maybe that you know this is all futile you people don't belong here you're gonna die here uh... for no reason at all you should never come i think that there's i think that that's maybe what the director's try to convey and also something along the lines of
13:08 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_00]: the bluster of a certain kind of man, and how people are just following this person blindly to their own death or something like that.
13:21 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so those are things that I'm interested in.
13:23 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm interested in sort of a revisionist Western that explores those themes.
13:29 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_00]: This movie just didn't feel like a movie.
13:32 --> 13:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, I was, I'm there, because I was,
13:35 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to advocate a little bit for the film before I go back to my regularly scheduled roasting, but so as you say, it's sort of like a, it's a modern Western and we've talked about Western's on this podcast quite a bit and sort of our relationship with it, you know, sort of through our viewing, but also our relationship with it culturally, specifically maybe
14:06 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_02]: we're, you know, our parents, you know, may have been a little bit more into the John Wayne effect and some of the, it's the, the, the Western is, you know, it feels uniquely American, it's sort of steeped in, you know, sort of white exceptionalism, it's, it's got, you know, we, it's, I took a, I took a old west class and, um,
14:36 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_02]: I think seventh grade and you know we got to make our own brand for our fake ranch, you know we're going through just talking about you know a lot of it talking about some of the outlaws right so like the anti heroes of the day that sort of shaped The nation or at least at least this pursuit for expanding the the country because the part of this is is you know it baked in it is kind of
14:58 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_02]: Colonialism and expansion and, you know, just sort of this, this, again, that exceptionalism of like, well, we, if you discover it, it's yours, even if it's already been discovered by somebody else, right?
15:10 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_02]: It is.
15:10 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: In your seventh grade class, did you discuss manifest destiny?
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I do believe it did come up.
15:17 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
15:18 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all right.
15:19 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_02]: So in this, so this takes you, it's like a snapshot, right?
15:23 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, so there's a couple of things.
15:24 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_02]: One of it feels like you're kind of, I felt like I was in a history class and we had a sub and we were just gonna, you know, buy the time.
15:33 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's, it's a very deliberate movie intentionally.
15:37 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a very, I mean, it's minimalist by design, but I think it's also minimalist in its,
15:45 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_02]: it's commentary and trying to explain or at least trying to demonstrate like the romanticism maybe that existed in sort of these western tales and lore skirts the issue of just this arduous track that that was involved this sort of trust in some sort of you know man to you know
16:08 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_02]: for being you don't really know you know it's sort of like deconstruct later like why why are we following this guy you know and how did you know and it's sort of commentary in the sense of like if you're at a church or you know whether it's it's politicians or maybe even if it's professors and offense but it's it's people that you just you sort of
16:27 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_02]: They inherit trust from people throughout, right?
16:31 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, you don't get a lot of vetting.
16:34 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_00]: They're in a position of authority, and as long as they keep talking and acting like they have authority, people that are willing to just kind of roll over.
16:42 --> 16:45 [SPEAKER_02]: And nobody's necessarily looking for an origin story for their authority per se.
16:46 --> 16:52 [SPEAKER_02]: They just see that the authority keeps existing, other people that they trust, follow it, so therefore, yeah, let's just follow it, right?
16:52 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's sort of this unchecked authority.
16:57 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is, you know, kind of apropos for the time that we're in right now, where everyone talks about like, oh, you know, sitting presidents usually lose or their parties lose the midterms, right?
17:07 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Because what happens?
17:08 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_02]: Because everyone goes, yeah, I'm going to follow this person based on either track record or based on a perceived track record or the people around me have suggested it or whatever it is, I'm going to follow this leader
17:21 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And then you look around and go, man, I feel like we've been on a long slog and we're not getting the water that we've been promised.
17:27 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I need to shake over where are there any other options?
17:33 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
17:33 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, kind of know at this point because you chose the guy, you're going to have to write this guy all the way to the way.
17:38 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_02]: And so you're doing that and then so the thought then what happens is now the critical thinking starts to release.
17:44 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_02]: At least it starts to start cracking through the seams where you got people going, why are we following this person?
17:49 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_02]: What was this person's expertise?
17:51 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_02]: you know and okay we're stuck but like you know so now you're like angry right so now you're dealing with with sort of this this wait a minute did I make a wrong decision and now what do I do about it and so a lot of times it's like we'll just get rid of that guy it's like okay but but that's not a solution either right because it's one of those things where it's like if you're ever in in like you know a business meeting and everybody's sitting around the table if there's only one idea and it's a bad idea it's by default the best idea
18:19 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, meek had the best idea because nobody else was willing or considered another option.
18:27 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you get rid of me, then now you're like, okay, well now we're in the middle of nowhere with no clue where we're going and nobody here has any experience.
18:34 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_02]: So what is our other option, right?
18:36 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So then when you do, as you elect somebody that you might perceive as someone you're against,
18:48 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_02]: Might have, might have a path to what we're really looking for.
18:52 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're willing to elect somebody that we've been maybe oppositional towards or we perceive as oppositional towards us.
19:00 --> 19:02 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to elect them to lead us.
19:02 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Even though we're not even, I don't turn off.
19:04 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I trust this person.
19:05 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not even sure we even speak the same language.
19:10 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if he knows what we want.
19:12 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know if he knows what he wants because he really hasn't
19:14 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_02]: hasn't really been you know stumping in art part of the world and now we're so we're just like look we're we're going to have to we're going to have to co-exist right and so what you have is you have the elected leader the original elected leader and then the newly elected maybe sub leader and they don't get along so what they want to get one wants to get rid of the other they don't trust it and it's just becomes
19:36 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you kind of end up with this sort of gridlock so to speak.
19:41 --> 19:57 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that a lot of that is baked into this film and part of the arduous nature of the directing and just the whole process is also I think can be considered a commentary for just like this is
19:57 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing new under the sun.
19:59 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_02]: This wagon train to get from one place to a better place, whether that's physical, whether that's conceptual, whether it's spiritual, is rife with these long, drawn out seemingly inconsequential movements that ultimately are going to, they could break you.
20:22 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think this movie is trying to do all of those things to you, the viewer, whether you like it or not.
20:30 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I agree with you.
20:32 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me throw this quote to you.
20:34 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what Kelly Rackhart said.
20:36 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And thanks again to David who sent us in the email.
20:40 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Kelly Rackard described has described her goal with the film, so this is a quote from the director.
20:47 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to give a different view of the West from the usual series of masculine encounters and battles of strength and to present this idea of going west has just a trance of walking, a trance of walking.
21:03 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there's something about the trance
21:07 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_00]: the trance is an interesting idea because it, you know, this, this movie does kind of low you to sleep at times.
21:16 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But a trance almost always suggests that there's someone who's hypnotizing you and I feel like like externally, I guess Kelly Reichhardt is trying to hypnotize
21:36 --> 21:38 [SPEAKER_00]: that just won't stop.
21:38 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_00]: There's part of you that just wants to tune it out, and so that you go somewhere else in your mind, and you're just kind of hypnotized into continuing to follow this leader, which it does feel like there's some kind of analog here to sort of modern-day politics.
21:57 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_00]: sort of a statement on the American stupor or something along those lines.
22:03 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_00]: But here's the thing about this.
22:05 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of feel like the package is faulty because I'm really kind of interested in that particular theme.
22:14 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But as soon as they choose the Native American guy with the scar, he's a talker too.
22:22 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And now they're kind of following him as he's talking.
22:27 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: but he's talking in a language and I was no one understands, moreover, there's no subtitles for that guy.
22:34 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So the audience member is also alienated from that.
22:39 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just kind of the sounds of this ancient language.
22:44 --> 22:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was kind of interested in what that guy might have to say.
22:48 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, that's interesting.
22:50 --> 22:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:50 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of felt like, maybe you're trying to like, oh, yes, maybe you're trying to run foot the viewer, play a trick on the viewer.
22:58 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe you're trying to create an experience for the viewer where you
23:05 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: have a critical distance from this entire group.
23:10 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But I was reading a little bit about what this guy's talking about and as he's walking across the land he's kind of telling stories from his perspective at one point he's talking to the moon and he's saying brother moon.
23:22 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know how I should interpret this experience.
23:28 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wish my real brother was here, so I could ask advice.
23:32 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Or at one point he's like looking over a bluff and he's telling a story about the mythology of his people and why this particular plot of land is important because a shaman came here at one point.
23:46 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Michelle Williams says, he's trying to tell us there's water right over those hills.
23:52 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that it's an interesting force of errors, you know, lost in translation kind of fastical experience.
24:00 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But as a viewer, I'm not really getting to experience anything from his perspective, and I might like that.
24:09 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So like the one part of the movie that I might enjoy, you've kind of deprived me of, which that's fine if that's what you wanted to do.
24:16 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_00]: If the movie was intended to alienate me to show me the folly of coming west, that's fine.
24:26 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm probably not going to watch your movie again.
24:28 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
24:29 --> 24:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I get that.
24:31 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would have liked to have seen the humanity of the Native American a little bit more fleshed out because I honestly didn't know like, is this guy crazy?
24:44 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we don't know anything about this guy like we don't know.
24:47 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know anything about him except for he's removed from his tribe.
24:50 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it makes me think did he get kicked out of his tribe because he just talked nonsense and wandered around in circles all day long, right?
24:58 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it feels like that's it's a real possibility.
25:01 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, the other thing I was going to say about this and so I kind of fault the director for not giving me his any any bit of his poetic speech.
25:13 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_00]: But the other thing about this is that this is a real occurrence, like this really happened.
25:18 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_00]: There was really a guy named Stephen Meek and he brought people west.
25:24 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He brought a lot of people west.
25:26 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, like people in the thousands, he brought the west.
25:29 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So he actually does know what he's talking about.
25:32 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_00]: He may be sort of an abrasive personality.
25:36 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But at the end of this particular story, a good thousand people arrived in Eugene.
25:42 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The group just kind of stopped trusting him because while he had led this path many, many times before, there had been a drought.
25:51 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he had never traversed the land in the time of drought.
25:56 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, in the real story, for all of his faults, he actually gets people to their destination.
26:05 --> 26:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of feel like the director chose not to tell the ending of that story because she wanted to make some kind of critique of masculinity, but if you tell the story to it's end when they arrive.
26:19 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_00]: maybe you don't get to tell that story as abrasively as you cut otherwise because you don't want him to be heroic in the end.
26:30 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
26:30 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_02]: And if that is the intent of the intent is to sort of take his heroism down an inch and the only way to do it is to make the story and before it does the thing
26:48 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit dirty.
26:50 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like that this guy's, I mean, I don't think any viewer would view him as hero as sure.
26:54 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_00]: He wants to kill this guy for no reason at all right.
26:58 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_00]: and he says some horrible things, he basically says that the natives are no better than animals.
27:04 --> 27:04 [SPEAKER_00]: One bread bread.
27:05 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's not heroic, no.
27:07 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But the story, and the reason why this story is remembered is all, is because people survived in order to retell the story.
27:15 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
27:16 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a choice to end the story in the middle.
27:19 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and which I can appreciate the artistic choice of doing that.
27:27 --> 27:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I want to go look up like what happened to these people and now you basically you're not you're not letting me into that aspect of the story and so it lacks complexity.
27:38 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Well I would say that there is the complexity of the uh like okay so yes me gets the credit me maybe the story if you let it go to completion and through the lore you know yada yada yada
27:53 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_02]: this movie suggests yeah there may be a yada yada yada me goddess there but in bed it into that is a moment of distrust a significant moment of maybe this guy isn't the guy the women that are not listened to barely spoken to in in meaningful ways can't even enjoy one cup of water without you know a man coming in and you serpent a sip
28:22 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_02]: It took a woman to sort of break the trance and say, well, you know what, you might be leading us nowhere.
28:35 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_02]: We're electing a different official.
28:37 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_02]: I know this person is scary to you, but this we're at a point where we've run out of options.
28:43 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_02]: We can't do it without you're the best thing we have until now and now we're going
28:52 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_02]: if it's since we're going to we have to trust somebody and right now you're you haven't delivered like you said you would so we're going with the next the next available option so so the so the woman sort takes takes some more more control take get some more of a voice takes more action has a bigger gun which i think is symbolic and then you
29:17 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_02]: And then says she follows whether or not again, we don't know and that's the beauty of we don't know if this guy even knows where he's going, but it's like I'm going to have to follow I'm not the follow the ramblings of some dude, I'm picking another dude.
29:28 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_02]: And and so so even if they do yada yada towards you know, yeah, me got us there the reality was very different reality was me almost had to have a mini cool.
29:41 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_02]: and they had to go against, it was a different person that brought them to the tree, that would then, and even if Mike is able from there to go on, Mike needed an assist from somebody that an unlikely helper, right?
29:56 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think what it does is it deconstructs the mythology, the lore that would go along with the tales of, because it's probably not gonna say, oh, and by the way, it was a member of the Kyu's tribe that really got us to where we needed to go,
30:11 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_02]: so well.
30:12 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So at one point toward the end of the film, Michelle Williams character is talking to her husband played by Will Patton and he's like, do you trust this Indian?
30:26 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And she says, I trust you implying that you are the one that wanted to keep him alive.
30:31 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just backing you up, man.
30:33 --> 30:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he says to her,
30:37 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope Meek hasn't twisted you up as all.
30:42 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_00]: How did you understand that state?
30:44 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_00]: What does he mean when he says, I hope Meek hasn't twisted you up?
30:49 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, I don't know if I'm reading that as if like she's like, well, you're keeping you decide to keep in the live like maybe she would have gone a different direction initially because she was following Meek's perspective on on this tribe because
31:07 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_02]: it's like while wait a minute I mean we're supposed to be hooked hooked into this guy this is our this is our expert not only just not only for direction but to navigate whatever perils we may encounter so you know it's kind of interesting like if so feed sort of defies meaks recommendation
31:30 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_02]: He may be saying to her, like, hey, he's basically sort of so in seed doubt for for me.
31:36 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_02]: So kind of creates this sort of this conundrum that they're in, right?
31:40 --> 31:42 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, well, maybe, I mean, it makes wrong about this.
31:43 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe that he is, well, maybe he's wrong about something else.
31:47 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, going back to sort of our, you know, again, this is 2010, but like, if you look at the current political landscape and you can look at it for almost any political, take any era where it's like, all right, I am for this person.
31:58 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I voted for this person.
31:59 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm with this person.
32:00 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I've forgiven a lot of things that maybe didn't go along with with what I thought I was voting for, but then there's this new thing and I'm like, then I don't buy it.
32:09 --> 32:10 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't buy this.
32:11 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_02]: So now I'm kind of forced to start going, well, if I choose not to buy this, I kind of have to start looking at the other things.
32:18 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_02]: So if I choose to accept that, meek is wrong.
32:22 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_02]: about what he wants, you know, his intentions, what he wants to do with this, this tribe member.
32:29 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Then now I got to start thinking about, was this guy right about any of the other stuff, or at least, you know, how critically have I been analyzing the other decisions?
32:41 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's interesting.
32:41 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I think one way that you could read it is to say,
32:47 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_00]: just because you hate meek and I think it's pretty clear that most people on this trip hate meek.
32:57 --> 33:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Just because you hate meek doesn't mean that the other option is a good option.
33:03 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
33:04 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're twisted up so much, like I felt this way about Trump, I felt like
33:10 --> 33:24 [SPEAKER_00]: man, he, he occupied so much of my mental space for those first four years that I kind of, I kind of wasn't crazy a little bit.
33:26 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And,
33:29 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of decided that this, you know, this time round I was like, look, I'm just not going to let him dominate my mental space so much.
33:37 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Not like I, I've, it's not like he's doing any better this time around.
33:42 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just that I'm not going to create political identity in antithesis to anything.
33:48 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
33:49 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if there's something like that here.
33:50 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you, your entire identity on this trip is just anti-meek.
33:56 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_00]: which was just a different way to twist you up, you know.
34:00 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Either you're all in for me or your entire existence is to do whatever the opposite of what he would do.
34:08 --> 34:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
34:08 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
34:09 --> 34:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is equally, I don't know if I want to say it's equally folly, but...
34:16 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an interesting...
34:18 --> 34:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not...
34:19 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not...
34:21 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not really creating a true ethos, right?
34:25 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're sitting in a situation where it's just whatever whatever is the opposite, you know, whatever's the opposite, I'm forward regardless.
34:37 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_02]: And I see that with certain people, right?
34:39 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which means you're allowing this person that you hate to call the tune, right?
34:44 --> 34:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And when this film first came out, some of the criticism was, well, this is clearly an allegory for George W. Bush.
34:53 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was, I think it was just missed a little bit because it felt like such a clear allegory for 2010 America.
35:01 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that I can experience it in 2026 and feel like it's just as apt of a political allegory, right?
35:14 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Means that the film maybe is a little bit better than the initial, you know, I guess the initial critique.
35:22 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't mind that.
35:24 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly don't mind the, um, the statement.
35:28 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, if this is a Western, it is probably the most anti-Western film I've ever seen.
35:33 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe.
35:34 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe it's two anti-Western, and then I would question like, are you, are you yourself, Kelly Reichhardt?
35:43 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_00]: twist it up so much by the western that you just tried to do the opposite.
35:48 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And there were moments where I kind of feel that right.
35:51 --> 36:06 [SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like this movie is for a movie that's doing kind of just a little, like, you know, doing the minimum, it still feels like it's doing it so intentionally that it's that it's actually feels heavy handed at times.
36:06 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I could see that.
36:08 --> 36:33 [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing about this, and I don't know whether this is just a historical fax of the trip, or if this is a intentional theme of the movie, but there's a number of biblical homages or illusions in this film, and you know, because of, you know, occupational hazard, I'm noting that, you know, the man's name is Solomon.
36:34 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_00]: there's you know there's the meek thing like the meek shell and hair at the earth maybe this is a commentary on that there's I think a conscious like the the one bit of humor in the movie is that this woman is thinking about her father's hogs and how you know their warm and fed and I thought that was a clear reference of the
37:04 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And then with the movies end, they find kind of a half-dead half-alive tree, which is, I mean, I know, with the other things that that was just a tree of life metaphor here.
37:19 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the fact is, is it a live or dead?
37:22 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it kind of looks half-half in half.
37:24 --> 37:26 [SPEAKER_02]: which adds to the ambiguity of their journey, right?
37:26 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Is it dying?
37:27 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Which really adds to the, it's like, even this tree, is it, is it, is it dying because the, the drought is that bad?
37:36 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Or is it suggesting that there's water around the corner?
37:39 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Not gonna answer it.
37:41 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so, you know, the ideas that these settlers were trying to find paradise, and so the tree of life metaphor kind of works with that, and you're not really sure whether they found it in the end.
37:53 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think if there's some interesting, like, it could be that these are just historical facts and that these people were so steeped in, you know, plot, you know, sort of projecting a biblical experience because the manifest destiny, that this is just how they saw the world, or whether the director is interested in kind of subverting some of these biblical tropes.
38:16 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not even a paradise found or a paradise laws.
38:19 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a paradise myth.
38:20 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a paradise, it's a paradise interrupted, you know?
38:25 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, because this movie consciously doesn't have an end, it's impossible to know whether there's just to set the end, or whether there's judgment at the end, or what it is.
38:39 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in reality, a lot of people died on this trip in this film, no one dies, but one guy kind of passes out
38:50 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_02]: That was your big action sequence.
38:53 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so you took the, you took a historical event that had a lot of death along the way.
39:00 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And you made the conscious choice to have no one die.
39:04 --> 39:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
39:05 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You're basically this movie is almost consciously holding everything in both hands, so that the ambiguity is the only thing that you have at the end.
39:16 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a choice, it's not necessarily the kind of story that I'm interested in revisiting, but it's an interesting kind of, um, it's an interesting portrait.
39:28 --> 39:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I'm in a museum and I'm just staring at American Gothic, like, what's this person trying to say to me?
39:36 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, should I read anything into their faces or would that just help people pose or, you know, I don't know.
39:41 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of feels like it's a museum piece, more than anything else.
39:46 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and looking at this, I mean, there were definitely like elements of work, like, okay, like, this is a, you know, this is almost this effort to do what they're doing is.
39:57 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, while it's not ancient history, it might as well be to me at the, like, in 2026, you know what I mean, like the idea of like, I procrastinate yard work.
40:16 --> 40:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Here we were we should we open this thing up talking about how like we were having a hard time finding out which platform to stream this on, you know, and you were having some audio issues, imagine living in a time where the only thing on was your son reading Genesis, I mean good word flip to another chapter or get me to another book, this is I mean
40:43 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Good grief.
40:44 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_02]: That's that to me was a net or this like do you you got a squeaky wheel You're that that squeaky wheel man.
40:54 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I was ready to nuke Oregon by the time nothing was done Forget looking for water.
40:59 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_02]: You need a search for WD 40 my dude
41:03 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You can either go to sleep, or you can try to fix this wheel.
41:09 --> 41:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:09 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, I would totally be the kind of guys, like, look, let's just get used to the wheel.
41:15 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's functioning.
41:15 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I was telling you man, when that when that third wagon covered wagon got, you know, cut loose and it's broken, like, well, those are four less wheels I have to listen to.
41:24 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm actually, I think this was a happy accident.
41:30 --> 41:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Steve, was there a trope of cliche or device that you enjoyed in this film?
41:37 --> 41:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I like a bad beard.
41:40 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you?
41:40 --> 41:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
41:43 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_00]: At the end of it, I was like, I don't know.
41:45 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know if there were any tropes.
41:49 --> 41:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's weird to say that, but this was a very unique film experience.
41:55 --> 41:58 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah.
41:59 --> 42:01 [SPEAKER_02]: this is an interesting critique.
42:01 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's even maybe just me being too into the weeds almost literally in the sense of what it might critique is like the movie is so focused on sort of this this minimalistic creating almost a hyper realistic aspect of it and a whole time I'm like no snakes I was really bummed and I yeah I was waiting for a snake yeah and I don't know I mean I was kind of like no you know I guess they didn't
42:29 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_02]: $2 million, you know, you got to pay these actors and you got to build the wagon, I guess you didn't have much of a snake budget I suppose, but it, I mean, it really, it would a snake have
42:46 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_00]: ruin the trance it might have right i think that that might have been like they like they find they find the Indian who's like a savage who you know represents you know but the reality is they found they might have found like the most uninteresting savage in all of the west yeah they found this like this this liberal savage
43:09 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and there's the sewing of the shoes and her rationale, like, well, now he owes me something or not now, you know, it's it's so it's an, that was a Any wonder, like, can you trust, can you trust her or does she really have compassion?
43:22 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to know for sure.
43:23 --> 43:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, is she calculating is she?
43:26 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, isn't this the same woman who used the N word like within the first five minutes of the movie?
43:30 --> 43:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's fair, but you know, I mean, I was, I was thinking like it's interesting choice and all the sudden it makes me feel like
43:39 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_00]: don't root for these people too hard.
43:41 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
43:41 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
43:42 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
43:43 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I go if it was it just so that but that's kind of the thing like the movie feels like it's trying very hard to do things and in order to do those things it has to not do things that would actually kind of make more sense for things that's trying to do so it does feel like you're kind of in a circular argument that it's making because like I said there's hyper realism but it's like oh but we don't want necessarily there to be like snakes or thorns or anything that would make someone go out or jump would
44:09 --> 44:37 [SPEAKER_02]: to your point break the trance, but they're also trying to give you a trance of of this realistic long drawn out very dull because that's that's what it would be like if you were doing this but it's like but I don't want there to be any any other danger because if there's danger then that would that would disrupt what I'm trying to do so now it's not as real because that stuff's not that you know what I mean so like it was that's where
44:37 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And the one reason I have the opportunity to think about these types of things is because I'm not watching anything else happen.
44:45 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It really has a screen saver quality.
44:47 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
44:50 --> 44:56 [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a tweak that you'd make this movie to improve on ending would be dope or a middle would be cool.
44:57 --> 44:58 [SPEAKER_02]: And even at beginning.
45:01 --> 45:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I, yes, all of those things, I think, not giving me subtitles for
45:12 --> 45:21 [SPEAKER_00]: the the poetry or the prayer or the you know or the story of the shaman like all of that's kind of stuff.
45:22 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You know you successfully wrong-footed me but I definitely would have enjoyed this more if I knew what he was talking.
45:30 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_02]: Could you have done something like in terms of tweak where you can still make the choice to sort of like wrong-foot you and get you on that like not really knowing what he's talking about but only do subtitles when he's
45:42 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_02]: having those like more poetic moments so that it feels like you're getting a glimpse into what's going on but you don't but like the the bigger like clues as to where they're where he's taking your pre-understands even with their talk what they want them to do is understood so I don't know there may be something to that yes I think maybe so or maybe have one of the characters know some of the language so that some of it can be interpreted I don't know
46:11 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this movie better worse from a part of their Ron Howard film?
46:16 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it's a Howard minus 1845.
46:17 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think I was prepared for the ending to be unresolved, because I had seen the mastermind.
46:36 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was kind of like,
46:38 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't completely like shocked that it wasn't going to be, it just, I'm going to say this is Howard adjacent because like I said before, like this isn't just like anti-western, it's almost anti-story, right, and you like to tell stories.
46:55 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I usually like a good story.
46:59 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, watch a movie.
47:01 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
47:03 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like old timey hats still have a certain kind of regal quality.
47:09 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about the fedora.
47:10 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, whatnot, you know.
47:12 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_00]: The rakeish derby.
47:14 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there any scenario where the bonnet would be sexy?
47:21 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_02]: I think if Ryan Gosling wore it, I mean, like, just...
47:24 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_02]: So you can do anything you want.
47:29 --> 47:31 [SPEAKER_00]: The bonnet really hasn't survived.
47:31 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I do live because I live where I live.
47:35 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I will see it on occasion, local menonites, where the women are, like, long skirts and bonnets.
47:42 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And you'll see him in the grocery store.
47:47 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And it really feels a little bit like...
47:51 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_00]: man you you you you live in an entirely different world than I do.
47:56 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing as old timey as a bonnet.
47:59 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
48:00 --> 48:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it feels as old timey as if I saw a guy in like played it armor with a big sword or something.
48:07 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you do feel like they just came off the set.
48:09 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like they came off the set of of witness or something.
48:14 --> 48:14 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
48:15 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a witness
48:21 --> 48:28 [SPEAKER_00]: the other thing I was thinking is that I once got a bonnet as a present.
48:32 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_02]: I was about six years old.
48:33 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay I was gonna say it was just like a work gift exchange gone horribly wrong.
48:37 --> 48:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
48:38 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I was about six years old and my mother's mother, my grandmother.
48:44 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_00]: She wasn't playing with a full deck.
48:49 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_00]: and she would send us gifts in the mail and she sent me an Easter bond and I was probably too young to understand what it was.
49:00 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_00]: What dementia was.
49:02 --> 49:10 [SPEAKER_00]: All I knew is that I got a gift in the mail and now I couldn't keep it and I was I was upset.
49:11 --> 49:12 [SPEAKER_02]: I think like I'm going to make this
49:14 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted the bonnet.
49:16 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The bonnet was a gift to me from my grandmother and now you're telling me that I can't have it.
49:21 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is this is this is not justice for a bit and bonnet the Anthony little on story and it was like my my mother and father and sisters all thought this was hilarious and yeah I didn't I didn't get the joke and all of a sudden now I can't keep the gift.
49:41 --> 49:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought a lot of emotional energy around bonnets.
49:47 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You need to mess shirt.
49:49 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Bonnet.
49:55 --> 50:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so to this day, I do feel a little imbius over anyone who can proudly wear bonnet.
50:11 --> 50:12 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
51:07 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Porchap out.