Agatha All Along - S01E03 – Through Many Miles / Of Tricks and Trials (MCUniverse)

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to The Lorehounds. I'm David and I am subbing in for Alicia this week.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm Jean and this is the Lorehounds MC Universe Breakdown of Agatha All Along Episode 3

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Through Many Miles of Tricks and Trials. Spoilers are going to begin right after our hot takes.

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_04]: But as usual, we're going to save our most spoil-y speculation for last.

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, we want to hear and discuss your thoughts about how the show,

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: comics, characters, and everything else is going. Send in your feedback to mcuatthelorehounds.com.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: You'll find that link in the show notes. Voice mails are encouraged as well. Just use your

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: voice memo app on your smartphone and send it into that same email address or visit us on our

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: website where there's on the contact page, there's a voice mail tool and links for the

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: discord and all of our affiliates and all of that kind of stuff is in the show notes below.

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Jean, how are you doing?

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm good, man. How are you? Thank you for joining me on this one.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, no problem. Yeah, Alicia is spending some time with her family this week

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and I said sure, I would be happy to sub in. I will put a big asterisk on my

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_01]: participation because this is in, you know, MCU is not one of my strong

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: areas and the witchy horror MCU stuff is even less of my awareness.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_01]: But that said, I'm really enjoying the show. What did you think of episode three?

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It continues a stellar season. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was well-paced, funny,

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_04]: and sad, let's say in time. But you know, I'll get through my sadness, but I really enjoyed

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_04]: the camaraderie that this cast is having that they're showing. It's clicking for me.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Everything here is really clicking. They're doing a great job.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I am enchanted by this show. It's very witchy. It's every episode I've watched to date.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I've ended the episode and I thought to myself, that was fun. I enjoyed that.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Those characters are interesting and I want to know more about them.

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not obviously invested in the bigger mysteries and how this is going to link to other parts

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: of the MCU and any of that kind of stuff. But as an episode of television for where it places

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_01]: itself sort of in a prestige, du pope spectrum and the budget spent and the actors and the script

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and all that kind of stuff, it's punchy. It's funny. The characters are compelling. The actors

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01]: are doing a great job. There's a fun mystery that has the ticking time clock aspect of it where

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01]: the characters are being forced propelled forward by a couple of different factors.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_01]: We have some fun mysteries that are fun to play with, but none of the question marks

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_01]: are making me hang on every episode in the sense of when are they going to give me a clue? When

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: are they going to solve this mystery? It's more just like, oh, this is a fun extra element.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But meanwhile we can do all this character development and I thought in episode three

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I got to learn more about all the characters. I got to learn more about their

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_01]: motivations and their histories. It was just really well-paced and put together. It was just

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: an enjoyable 30-ish minutes of my time. Yeah, I totally agree with all of that.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Have you watched Wandavision yet? I'm famous amongst the heart cohort

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: for having never finished Wandavision when it first came out. I did. I finally finished it

[00:04:15] [SPEAKER_01]: the other day. I watched the first two episodes of Agatha and then I was able to finish the last

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: two or three episodes of Wandavision after that. How did you feel about it after you watched it?

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: It was good. I liked it. I thought the main antagonist was a little bit too much out of

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_01]: central casting and that character was a little bit mono-dimensional. Some of the FBI

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: external stuff was just a little clunky but then whatever, it's fine. It felt a little

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_01]: law and order-ish with actors with these fake guns on their hips trying to be cops and stuff

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: like that. Whatever, it's fine. That's not a criticism of the show. That's just

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: the one area I was like, okay, it's average. I thought that the acting that Paul Bettany

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and Elizabeth Olson delivered was great. I thought the conceit about the different eras of television

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: shows was great. I'm a kid who watched a lot of black and white TV incendication when I was really

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: little and then of course going into the 70s and the 80s, we had all that kind of stuff

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and then in the 90s and just seeing them so accurately depict all the different eras of

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_01]: television was amazing. They did such a good job of it. Then this idea of what Wanda is going through

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_01]: how that illuminates the question of grief when human beings feel grief, what do we do and how do

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: we handle that? I can think of some times in my life where I've created a bad break,

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: had a bad breakup and then I was living with that person in my head even for months

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: afterwards. I created this internal reality where they were still there. When you are

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_01]: the Scarlet Witch and you have this huge power and you can create your own reality,

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that's great. Then also what grief does to other people and how that can trap them and weigh them

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: down. I thought that that was interesting. I can live here with my grief but if I push

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: my grief out onto other people and what's around me then how does that affect other people?

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're seeing that a little bit in this show too because I think Agatha has some grief

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that she's dealing with and we don't. I think that's what episode to episode we're starting to see that

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: come out and be illuminated and she's starting to get in touch with it. I think

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: that's one of the more compelling things about this show is that there's some substance to

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_01]: it, not just fun silly witchy stuff on top but there's actually some substance underneath.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: I think if it's the same people who made WandaVision and that same spirit is coming into this show,

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_01]: it's not unlike Loki, especially the final season where there is a character arc and

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: there is a character who is coming to terms and resolving feelings in themselves.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I find that really, I like this part of the MCU.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree. I think Agatha's raison d'etre is being fleshed out much more so than it was in

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_04]: WandaVision. In WandaVision she was the antagonist to Wanda almost. But here we're going to see why

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: maybe that might have been the case. What's her motivation and what is her

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_04]: what's pushing her forward to make decisions that she's making? Is she just

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_04]: power hungry? Is she Thanos? Things of that nature and I think they're doing a really good

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_04]: job of trying to flesh out her story which is great because I wanted this to be her story.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't want it to be an extension of WandaVision or extension of Scarlet Witch's story.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I wanted it to be embodied, the embodiment of Agatha Harkness and what motivates her

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_04]: and what's going to propel her forward in the MCU and I think they're doing a great job of that

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: so far. And I think that's what the best of the Avengers series MCU stuff gave us was,

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think quite widely Civil War is one of the most appreciated films of all of the

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_01]: original Avengers movies by a lot of people. There's sort of a popular opinion that Civil War

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_01]: is great. Why? Because it was about two friends who were beefing. It was about

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: big changes happening in the world of the MCU, the Zakovia chords and all that kind of stuff

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_01]: and how people were reacting to that and how that split apart friendships.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's interesting. That's the stuff that's compelling is it's cool to see some explosions

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and have some entertainment but make sure that there's some soul in there. Make sure

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that there's some heart in there and I think that's what Loki gave us because it ended with

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Loki having to come to this realization and make some hard choices for himself. That's

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: satisfying and interesting. So I think this show is operating on those levels, fun, silly, goofy,

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_01]: October-y sort of entertainment, some fun visuals and some cool characters but then underneath

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a heart to it. There's a point of view to it. There's something, there's writers who

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_01]: are exploring a dynamic of what it is to be a human being and we're exploring those themes

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: through the fantastical, through the exaggerated witch culture of the MCU.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. So you ready to get into this episode?

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. Let's take a quick commercial break and then when we come back we will get into our

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: spoilers. So this is your big warning. Welcome back. We are now in spoiler territory. We're

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: going to have another break there before we dip into that but this episode three through many miles of

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: tricks and trials was directed by Rachel Goldberg and Rachel is an experienced, Rachel like I know her.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Goldberg is an experienced TV director apparently also directed episodes of Cloak and Dagger

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_01]: on Marvel TV. Was that the pre-MCU stuff? Yes. It was,

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_04]: it's on Hulu now I think. So probably on Disney Plus as well. So you can definitely check it out

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_04]: but they haven't been brought into the MCU proper but yeah, Cloak and Dagger is a cool teen story.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, right on. So apparently Goldberg also directed episodes four and five of this series

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_01]: which you know could be that there's some arc or some connectivity, an extra level of connectivity

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_01]: in the three episodes that she's directed. This episode was written by Cameron Squires who was

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_01]: part of the WandaVision writing room and I guess for that Squires was credited where Wanda

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_01]: breaks the fourth wall and copes with some depression and then I guess they also wrote

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_01]: episode five of The Acolyte. That's the titled Night and that's the big fight sequence that

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01]: ended with a reveal of Darth Tooth. Hopefully that's not too spoiler-y. Anyway, so a skilled

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_01]: writer in the MCU and Star Wars world. The episode is titled From the Witch's Road song lyrics and

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_01]: that's the middle of the third verse and maybe we'll get some links to those, the verses and so

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I think if you Google, you know, Witch's Road online you can find the lyrics. Alicia wrote

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_01]: the outline for us that we're following today so that will be her voice. She doesn't have a

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_01]: specific voicemail for us but her very essence, her very being is woven into the fabric of our

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_01]: podcast. So undoubtedly her points of view will be embedded in the very things that were written

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and thank you Alicia for writing it. Save John and I huge time. Thank you. Do you think she likes

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_04]: the show? Do you think she likes the season? Oh I think she kind of likes it. Kind of likes it.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_04]: It's all right. It's like a half thumbs up, you know. Right. We'll see how it goes.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_01]: First scene, the road begins. Agatha informs the Coven that to reach the end of the road

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: they will face trials that focus on different branches of witchcraft. They also learn that

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the teen's sigil prevents any witch from learning his identity, not just Agatha.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_04]: Teen, this is exactly how I pictured it. Agatha, it suits you. Sharon, this is a kidnapping,

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_04]: tries to call the cops but there's no signal. This is a different dimension.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_04]: This is really, really, really a horrible party. What do you think of all of this David?

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_04]: What did you find interesting about this entire scene? Was there anything that stuck out to you?

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I'm just on the ride for the teen's identity and knowing what he is. And I did like

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: your theory from the previous episode that he's somehow more directly related to Agatha.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll get into that. I thought that Sharon's character is hilarious.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_01]: She was such great comic relief.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because I thought that maybe she was going to be a witch in secret.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: She obviously has earth magic somehow because she's got such a green thumb.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_01]: As we see it in the previous episode when Agnes grabs her, her garden is quite lush and stuff.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But I've got a theory that... Because we lose her at the end of the episode,

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_01]: but I was wondering if not that this is a Willy Wonka situation where everyone sort of,

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you may die. We may lose you on the road, but then you come back at the end kind of thing.

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm hopeful that she's not gone forever.

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think she is. I really don't think she is. I think this is all a bait and switch.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it's my heart talking and not my head. But I'm all for... I think this is not the end of Sharon.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I think she will be back. The name of the episode is Through Many Miles of Tricks and Trials.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_04]: And I have a feeling like this is a trick. This is part of the trial.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm hoping fingers crossed that we see Sharon somewhere down the line.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't think about something that you just said about her, obviously with the green thumb,

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_04]: which is synonymous with... Could be Earth magic.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_04]: And I didn't think about that before. Her gardening skills and her prowess with

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_04]: obviously how well she did with that. So yeah, I'm hopeful that my heart is right

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_04]: and that Sharon will be back because I absolutely adore her.

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_04]: She's awesome.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I just do. When she went off the path by herself, when she went on the path,

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, no, don't go by yourself.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Like, no, stay with the others. Don't go by yourself. And it's just...

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm immediately wanting her to win. I think my...

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Can we just throw a quick on that off the path thing?

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_01]: This happened in... We watched Prey for our subscriber movie club podcast called 11Z.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: That should be out shortly. Alicia was editing it and I think she's going to have that soon.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, there was some small minor spoiler. There was some quick...

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_01]: QuickSand plays a role in that movie. And then we've got QuickSand in this movie.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, the one thing us Gen Xers are known for is our toughness.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Right? You know, oh, you know, I've been amputated.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, just rub some dirt on it and get on with your life.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah. Go back outside. The one thing that will get us though,

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_01]: QuickSand. QuickSand is one of our greatest fears. It's a sort of a crypt...

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Not a kryptonite, but you know, it's a thing that will de-power us

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that will suck us down inside of. So I love the fact that they...

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they were trying to go for a Gen X vibe there, but as a Gen X,

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_04]: I was like, QuickSand, no! That's hilarious. That's funny.

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And it does set up the rules for the world, right?

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. Yes.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: We know you got to stay on the path. And they do it in a funny way,

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_01]: in a way that helps Sharon's character, gives us a little foreshadowing

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and gives a little bit more conflict to the group.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that was just played off really nicely.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_01]: But you were saying some stuff about Sharon before I interrupted?

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_04]: No, yeah. I just really, really feel that her character is me.

[00:17:52] [SPEAKER_04]: Like what would I do in that situation where I'm...

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_04]: All of a sudden, in the midst of a coven of witches,

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_04]: and I myself have shown no sort of inclination to being a witch.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm pulled into this world yet again, because she was part of the Wanda vision

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_04]: of the hex. So she was there for that as well. She experienced that.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_04]: And now she's on a road underneath her town, which she thought was like a metro,

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_04]: for a town of a couple of thousand people, it would be weird for them to have a metro.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_04]: But yeah. And she's on this road with no shoes.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And she's looking at these people talking about, we're going on a trial.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Like a trial. What are you talking about? Yes, call the police.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_04]: Call the feds. Get everybody out here. What are we talking about now? You know what I mean?

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Which kind of blew up my thought that she was somehow a secret witch or something.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. But then it's just something that's telling me that this is not the end of her story.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just come right. Yeah, agreed. Alicia has a note in here about the tunnels

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: that there was the whole thing in Wanda vision where there was a dude in a B suit and he like

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: crawled through... Sorry, minor spoilers. Yeah, this is just spoilers, right?

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, this is spoilers. Yes.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: There was some dude that used some tunnels to crawl through to get to Wanda or to get inside the

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_01]: shield into Westview. So that's interesting if there's some connectivity there. I didn't really

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_01]: think about that. The one thing I did think about from the Wanda vision was that starts off

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 1 and this is fresh in my mind just because I just recently watched it,

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_01]: was that there was a heart on the calendar and that set up the whole comedy dynamic of,

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, oh we thought it was our anniversary but no, it's actually dinners with the hearts.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And then on the list that is it Leela Kaldru? Is that the character Patty Lepone's character?

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. When she makes that list which I love her character too just all the weird random stuff

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: like she's being assaulted by unseen ghosts and like gracing her and stuff.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_04]: But the whole dynamic of this group just works for me. Yeah, you know from the very beginning

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_04]: it just works for me, you know? And I really think that the actors are really embracing

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_04]: and cherishing these roles that they're inhabiting. They're going for it. They're

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_04]: all in on all. Yes, yes and it shows and it shows in how the story is being played out and it shows

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_04]: in how the care that they've taken to these characters that they've given to these characters

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_04]: shows. And I really appreciate what they're doing with this story.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And we're getting great illumination of the characters too and we're learning about them

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and their back stories. The I thought in the previous episode where she was going around

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: getting the coven, I guess that was episode two, everything was efficient in terms of telling us

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: of their base starting level of who this character is why she needs them and why they need her.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Why they need to go on this journey. And it all made sense in story and for character

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's just really efficient and a tight understanding of how to deliver that information

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_04]: on a small screen, on the television screen. Yeah and the thing is too when teen says that

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_04]: anybody become a witch with training. Yeah, what's about that? It just gives me hope.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_04]: You know don't take my way. I'm keeping hope alive. Don't take my hope away.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_04]: Joyful. Please. Yeah. So let's keep our fingers crossed for Sharon.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Well and it's interesting too because if the teen can learn, you know, if he's got some embedded

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_01]: magic but then learning it. And I think that plays a role in this right which is well how am I supposed

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_01]: to do anything if I'm restricted in some way? And he pops up with, you know, practical. You

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: know, do the things practically. Do it. Yeah. Make the potion. You don't have to have

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: magic to make the potion. You just need to know the information. The emphasis on craft.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yes. Which is really, really, really a great point where you don't have your powers okay,

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_04]: but you have your knowledge. Use it. Which is something also comes a little bit as

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Agatha also tells Jennifer this. You know, right? It's up here. You know, she's pointing

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_04]: to her head like use your knowledge. Knowledge is power. Use it. Get your power back.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So with the teen, in the mystery around the teen, I like the fact that they

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_01]: did the sigil thing and then explained it to us right? They dropped a little mystery

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: in the previous episode but this time they've given me the not, you know, like oh it's not

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: a bigger element of his character arc which I think is interesting. And then there was something

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: else that they dropped. He says, somebody, I forget who says to him, Jen, I think Jennifer Kale says to

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_01]: him like call your parents or something like that. And he says, oh I'm 100% positive they're asleep.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So that was like another little quick clue that sort of drove by but I don't know if we want

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to speculate a little bit now or do we want to say, do you want to say that for the spoilish

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: weather section? No, we can speculate. I don't care about the spoilers because I don't know about the

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_04]: comic tie-ins and stuff. We can speculate now. Okay. I don't know who his parents are.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. We don't know who his parents are presumably and if he even has parents,

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, all his parents alive, all his parents dead, it's all of them.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Magical creation of some kind? Well, initially that's what I thought. In this episode,

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_04]: there's too much for me. It was just too much of hinting towards that that leads me to think that

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_04]: my initial belief of him being the darkhold reincarnated, the book of magic being

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_04]: reformed after it was destroyed, I don't think that's the play. Okay. There is some connection.

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: They are establishing some connection between the teen and Agatha. Yes. There's some kind of

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_04]: relationship. Yes, there is but I don't think it's the one that I thought of with him being

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_04]: the darkhold and I don't think that he is Nicholas. Okay. At least she has another note

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01]: in here about Agatha calling it clumsy glamour, which a hypothesis that's floating around out

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: there is that maybe the teen did the sigil himself. No, I don't buy that. I saw that and

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't buy it. I don't think he did it himself. No. No. All right. But then she also makes

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_01]: an interesting point in the outline which is this is the moment that Sharon is away.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So Sharon who's not a witch, would Sharon have been able to hear what he said?

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what we assume. Because if the sigil... We assume that because it's hiding him from

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_04]: witchfolk. From witchfolk, right? Not from normal folk. Right. So that's interesting.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_04]: You know in this scene where Agatha is, she's very protective of teen.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_04]: When they start questioning him, she steps in front of him.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_04]: She does. That's right. Like a shield. You know, like a parent would do.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_04]: What are you waiting for? Don't talk to my son. Don't talk to my daughter.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Talk to me. Yeah, you don't talk to my kid. You talk to me.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_04]: And in that moment I said no, it's not her son.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. Because it was just so obvious to him and I just felt like no.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_04]: This... She's being protective of him, yes. But for what reason?

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_01]: I read it more as her... What did she say? She's like, oh well we can crack him open later kind

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: of thing, right? And this is Agatha's play is... Oh, I'm... You know, she's very flip about things,

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: very arrogant about things. She's saving him. She doesn't know what he is.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: She wants to crack him open herself, but she needs the coven to help her do that. But then

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: when it comes time to crack him open, she would do it herself. She wouldn't involve them or share

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: anything that gets brought forward because they figure out the mystery of the teen.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Right.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So she's using him as the upshot. And so she's... Yeah, I think when I read it,

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_01]: when she steps in front of him, she's sort of asserting dominance over him. This is my prize.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. This is my... Whatever nut is this is, it's mine to crack.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. Right. Interesting.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I also like that the episode told us right away. We have this song as our map, our road map for

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the season. And this idea that you've got to tame your fears that's a line from the song that informs

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: us as to what these trials and tribulations are going to be about at this stage, just like each

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: of these characters is going to have to overcome a fear of theirs. And then we get to learn about

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_01]: them in that process. Right.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, I just feel like this is what we've witnessed in these first three episodes

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_04]: in something that a lot of shows don't take the time to do. Right. We're learning as we're

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_04]: going instead of just jumping in tentos deep. Right. It's given me a lot of hope that the

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_04]: future of storytelling within this realm will lead us to better outcomes than what we've had.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Because these, again, I keep going back to it because it's really important.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_04]: They are clearly, clearly, clearly telling a story that is focused around this one character with

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_04]: all of these other ancillary characters surrounding her. But it's her story and it's not bogged down

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_04]: by trying to draw in other themes or other, you know, boy, what's the word I'm looking for?

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_04]: They're not trying to bring in other fan service or other, you know, we have to stick

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_04]: this in because this show or this movie is coming. Right. No, they're not doing that.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_04]: They're telling us Agatha's story because this is Agatha's story. Right. And when all of the other

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: characters are in service to her, they make sense in the story world because they need Agatha.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But the focus is always going to be on Agatha's propelling forward. Yeah. And I appreciate that

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_04]: for, because this is one of the only times that they've done that. Not the first time,

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_01]: but one of the only times that they've done that. Right. So we get to this Hampton's house,

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: like this is straight off Hampton's, right? Yes, basically.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, being New York adjacent, we know this house. And it has a full moon on it

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that the teen recognized as the water trial. So obviously that comes in. And this is what I

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_01]: get. I like the show. They're dropping me all the clues. They're giving me all the

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_01]: context for what's going to happen in the episode. And then they deliver on that context. Right.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, okay, we know that you've got a team your fears. We know that every

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_01]: witch is going to have a trial where they're going to be, you know, pivotal in the, you know,

[00:30:35] [SPEAKER_01]: surmounting of that, that trial. And then they're like, okay, here's the water trial. Boom.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. We know what's up. I just appreciate the efficiency and just solid tell this is

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: just good. So all the television, right? It's telling you what I need to know. So then they can,

[00:30:52] [SPEAKER_04]: they can have some fun with it. Yeah. And they have fun with it. All right. They do.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. They certainly have fun with it. So the water trial at first, at the first trial,

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the Kevin finds a coastal house with a bottle of wine. Everybody drinks the wine except the

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_01]: teen and Agatha. Jen privately warns the team not to trust Agatha who is said to have

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_01]: traded her child for the dark hold. A timer suddenly starts counting down 30 minutes.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And Jen realizes that the wine contains the poison as Sharon faints.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_04]: The road gives them a wardrobe change for every trial.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_04]: That was unexpected, you know what I mean? Totally like, okay, I see this is going to be

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_04]: interesting. I want to see what the other trials are like to see what these

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_04]: costumes will turn into. So yeah, this is good stuff. This is something that Agatha did and

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm liking that they're doing it here too. They're playing with the format of television.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: The Wanda vision. Sorry, Wanda vision. Yeah. Wanda vision, you know, was these,

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, different decades of television when they got to the 90s, man, it was so

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_01]: on point. It was so good to the whole like sit down interview thing. I was like, oh my gosh.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, the team looked really good in his preppy outfit. I was like, oh, okay.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_04]: He looks, he looks tight. And I've never watched this show Big Little Lies.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_04]: I've never seen it. Sure. But you know, to know that they're actually, you know, calling back

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_04]: to something that exists, it was really cool when Sharon says, have you seen huge tiny lies?

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_04]: And then I find out there's a Big Little Lies TV show. I'm like, oh, okay. This is hilarious.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: This is great. So again, they're playing with their, they're actually, you know, actively

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: engaging television, the format of television and the history of television. So what we had,

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: we had the whole true detective, the wire,

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the mayor of East town sort of vibe and episode one. I don't know that episode two had a dominant

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_01]: theme. It was just itself, but you know, one division did that as well. There were episodes

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_01]: where it wasn't TV centric, but then this was, I guess TV centric, but in a way that it didn't

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: make it feel that way. It felt appropriate for the trial, right? They're in this, you know,

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: this beach house. So that's really clever. Actually, I'm really starting to appreciate

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: the construct that the show is doing here, even on a newer level.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Really, really good stuff, man. They're doing really good stuff here. And I love that Agatha,

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, as soon as she gets in, everybody is talking and she slowly is trying to back out,

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, trying to open the door. Right, right, right. She can get out like F everybody else.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to get the hell out of here. You know, that shows her who she is, you know,

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_04]: as a character, as a person, she's looking out for herself first and foremost.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. You know, she's going to do what's right for her, regardless, and it doesn't matter.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I think that's something that we all should, you know, pay attention to and really hold

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_04]: on to as we watch the rest of the season. She's in service to herself. Her instinct

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_04]: is self-preservation. So how will that play out over these, you know, next few episodes with

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_04]: these next few trials? It's going to be interesting. Does that change for her? You know, does...

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_04]: Right.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_04]: Does the coven change Agatha? It's a big question that I have.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right. I guess Agatha still has her brooch, so that's something. So even

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: though the costume change happens, she keeps that little brooch with that little locket of hair in it,

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: which I have no understanding of what that is. It's just a thing that's making its way,

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: tracking through the episode. Did that come out of... I can't remember if that was in

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_01]: WandaVision or not. I kind of think it was.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it... I don't remember if it's in WandaVision, but it's something that's,

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, she's had it her entire life, right? And so it goes back to her time and Salem.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_04]: And so it's really something that's...

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Because we see that in one of the flashbacks of this, right? Is that it was there.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_04]: This obviously has huge sentimental properties for her and maybe even magical. Who knows?

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. It's a key to something of her identity. So it's going to unlock at some point for sure.

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So Alicia's got a couple of notes in here that I have to mention that big little lies

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Alicia watched it and she just says, you know, make sure that it's about wealthy women in Monterey,

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_01]: California who get caught up in a murder investigation. And then she points out randomly

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Hong Cao, who's currently running for the Senate in Virginia was recently mocked for saying that

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Monterey has been taken over by witches. I guess seven. Oh wow, that's amazing.

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Last month after they filmed this, but it's just sort of a funny coincidence thing.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_01]: That's hilarious.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's interesting because I didn't think of this as big little lies. I thought this

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: was more of Hampton's house, but that's just because of proximity. But it also makes sense.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Because we're East Coasters. That's all.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a East Coast Hampton's house. That's not a California bluff over the bluff house.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? Because their houses are faced the ocean in a different way.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, you can fight me about that on Senate Feedback.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_01]: MCU at theLorehounds.com.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_04]: So then wine riddle.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yes, yes. The wine riddle.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_04]: The Witches Road quarterly invites you to the first trial.

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_04]: And then Sharon. What a gorgeous card stock. I mean, come on.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_04]: I love this woman.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_04]: I love everything about her. She's so wholesome.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_01]: It's hilarious. She is such great comic relief in all of this.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_04]: She's just great. She's just awesome. And then Teen says about the riddle,

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_04]: what does it mean? Sharon says that it's very expensive.

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And then guzzling the wine. Just like, oh man.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Again, that's what I would be doing if I were her. If I was in her shoes,

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_04]: that bottle would have been gone immediately. I would have guzzled the bottle, not the glass.

[00:37:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Like what is going on in my life that I'm here?

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Like it has to be the most singularly outrageous thing to happen after the most outrageous thing

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_04]: that could have happened to you happened in one.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_04]: How do you deal if not with alcohol? I'm just saying.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right. So Alicia has a note here about that there are five glasses, so there's not a

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: sixth glass. So the teen wasn't meant to drink. I kind of interpreted that as this as

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: the fact that he's not part of the coven, that he's not going to benefit from having walked the

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: road. He's not actually... Did he sing? No, he didn't sing because he was being chased around

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: by the Salem Seven. That's saying. Which by the way, I love the fact that the Salem Seven...

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You can watch this show without having watched WandaVision. Yes.

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_01]: There'll just be a bunch of stuff that you're like, whatever. But having just watched it and

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_01]: understanding that leap of Wanda's background and the fact that they show it in this thing.

[00:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: There was a reason why I thought WandaVision was important to this. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I just love the ticking clock of the Salem Seven sort of pushing them forward. And I love that

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_01]: the peril is from Wanda's past. I think it's a great conceit.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_04]: And now we have the ticking clock quite literally pushing us forward as well.

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know if... I don't think that the road knows teen is under age.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Correct. I kind of fall on your side of it saying that he's not part of the coven

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_04]: while he wasn't given a glass. Right. He's not facing the trials like the witches are.

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Or maybe he is part of the coven and Sharon took his glass.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point because she does die in the end.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But is that because of their ineptitude or is that because she's not magical and she's not

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_04]: supposed to be? Again, I'm going to go with my heart. And I'm going to say

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: their ineptitude and she's coming back, baby. Yeah. I'm definitely on the...

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: The whole time they were doing it, I'm like, what about Sharon? What about Sharon?

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it's like, duh, come on people. Anyway. Or is the question,

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_01]: is the teen not really a teen? Is the teen not... Because Sharon's saying,

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_01]: so she's part of the magic of them getting to the road would be my interpretation of that.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Where the teen didn't sing but is the teen something that he is not? Is he presenting,

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_01]: is he an embodiment of something that is not a human being?

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_04]: But the door to the road opened up when he came into the basement.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_04]: When he came down the stairs, he bounded down the stairs. That's when the door opened.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_01]: But then I interpreted that as the song saying like in times of peril.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. But I think it's ambiguous, right? It could go any way.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But I was just sort of leading into the idea of is he the Darkhold?

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Is he actually an embodiment of the Darkhold? Which I have no idea what it is other than this book

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_01]: that has like a lot of power because I don't know the deeper lore.

[00:41:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I just know that that's the MacGuffin.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but...

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_01]: That's any MacGuffin that's out there in Agatha's story.

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. And Wanda's story and the overall story of magic in the MCU.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Right. It's the... It's unumptanium. It's the... It's a vibranium.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_01]: It's the thing that makes everything go round in the witch world. Right?

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. So...

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm assuming. I'm making an assumption. I'm making an assumption that that's the case.

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_04]: It holds incredible power, chaos magic, which is what Wanda is an avatar of.

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Her magic is chaos magic. And this is the book of chaos magic in the forum to have...

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_04]: to give the person who reads it, the person who holds it the power, that power.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_04]: And if you watch Multiverse of Madness, you saw what that power was able to do.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Transverse universes go from one universe to another, invade someone's dreams and

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_04]: become that person. Right? And so this is a book that gives the wielder of the book

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_04]: tremendous amount of power. Okay. And going forward, each person who's held that book

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_04]: has had bad outcomes. You know? They've had bad outcomes. And Agatha specifically

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_04]: wanted to keep Wanda away from the Darkhold. Because she said if you get this,

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_04]: you will become the Scarlet Witch and the Scarlet Witch was destined to destroy

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: what is known. So, yeah, pivotal piece of gear in the MCU witch world.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: How does that play? So I'm seeing a note here from Alicia about Nicholas Scratch and about

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Mephisto. So all of this stuff. So we have the Book of the Damned. I don't know who Nicholas

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Scratch is. Okay. And I don't really know who Mephisto is. So if casual viewers are watching

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_04]: this, what do we need to know? Nicholas Scratch is Agatha's son. Okay. So in the comics,

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Agatha has a son and who they allude to in the show, but we don't. Yeah. We see his name,

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_04]: right? Yeah. You know, the rabbit is named Senor Scratch. Senor Scratchy. Right. So

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_04]: that's her son and the Salem Seven are his children who come after Agatha because they

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: believe she betrayed their covenant. So Nicholas Scratch sired seven children. Yes. Yeah. Got it.

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_04]: So the son is an adult son, not a child. He's not a child. Okay. So that's his story. That's

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_04]: who he is. He's an antagonist of Agatha's in the books, in the comics. Okay. Right. Mephisto

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_04]: is the embodiment of evil in the Marvel comics. Okay. In the name of like Satan. Okay. Is he

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_01]: an organized evil or is he a chaotic evil? Is he like? No, he's very organized. Okay.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying in D&D terms, like we have the devils are in lawful evil, right? So they're organized

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_01]: and they go about things methodically where demons are chaotic. And it's just like,

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: ah, destruction, like rampant, like, you know, let it fly. Very organized, plotting,

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_04]: thinking steps ahead of someone else. Okay. Always with the machinations behind the scenes

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_04]: to try to get what he wants is ultimate power over everything. Why wouldn't you want that? But anyway,

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_04]: it seems like everybody. Right. So anything that you can synonymous even in look to what,

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, Christianity or some versions of Christianity would say, you know,

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_04]: the devil looks like. So that is Mephisto and his connection to Wanda allegedly is that

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_04]: the children that she created, right? The twins taken because he's an embodiment,

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_04]: the highest embodiment of chaos magic. Okay. So they are parts of his soul,

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_04]: allegedly, what he tells her, right? In the comics that drives her, you know, insane.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_04]: But should we actually believe the Lord of lies? Right? Right, right, right, right.

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Can you trust what he's telling you is actually true? We don't know.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Always a good lie. Always has an element of real truth to it though, right? So

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_04]: the dark hold is said to, you know, to be

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_04]: a larger extension of the magical in the MCU. Right. Mephisto is part of the magical extension

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_04]: of the MCU. And it's important that Jennifer tells teen, right? That Agatha traded, you know,

[00:46:36] [SPEAKER_04]: her son for the dark hold because Mephisto and says also that maybe teen could be an agent

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_04]: of Mephisto because in the comics, her direct ancestor was the first, not the first but was

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_04]: an original agent of Mephisto. It's like he became the ghost writer of the 17th century.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_04]: Right? Mephisto, he sold his soul to the devil and the devil made him turn them into

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_04]: the ghost writer. So if you've seen the ghost writer films, it's a hell demon that makes you

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_04]: face your fears. Nicholas Cage played the ghost writer in two films, I believe. They're not part

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_04]: of the MCU proper but obviously they're going to be part of the MCU. This character is coming

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_04]: to the MCU because there's no Jennifer saying this leads me to believe that she knows the history

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_04]: that her family has. And one of her cousins is currently the ghost writer. Okay. So Mephisto

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_04]: has his claws in Jennifer Kale's familial history.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting. Okay. So these are big drops then, these are big lore drops for the show

[00:48:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to be doing this and hopefully, you know, like, it's one of the things that we were,

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_01]: that, you know, people have been debating around MCU in general is, oh, you know,

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_01]: if I watch this, I need to have watched these five other things and then I'm going to have to watch

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_01]: seven more things in the future to understand the whole thing as opposed to making just encapsulated

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_01]: standalone stories. And I think it feels like this season is going to be standalone. It's

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_01]: just like you can watch it without knowing whom Mephisto or Scratch is. But if you do know them,

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_04]: these are nice subtle plans. Yeah, definitely. This is, you know, a plant for the future

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_04]: and we know that Sasha Baron Cohen will be playing the character in Iron Heart,

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_04]: which is coming out next year. Hopefully, fingers crossed. So this is not something

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a throw a one off. This is happening. So she traded her son for the Darkhold but now

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_01]: is she maybe trying to get the Darkhold back to get her son back? That's a

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. That's an interesting question. Yeah, yeah. Because if she, you know, I'm just

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_01]: thinking of the show in terms of grief and working through questions of grief. It feels like

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Wanda is struggling with something. Oh, yeah, she definitely is. And it's not just Agatha,

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_01]: sorry, sorry, sorry, Agatha Agatha is struggling with something and it's not

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_01]: just wanting to get her power back, which she does. But there's something else driving her.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_04]: No, they show us that she's, you know, something is, you know, not right with her.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_04]: And she's lost three years obviously first and foremost, but now she's being forced to confront

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_04]: what she might have done. You know, did she actually trade her child for the Darkhold?

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. That's what women say. Yeah, which would be pretty

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_01]: like, you know, as parents we would not do that. Right. And again, that's what the rumors say.

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. Just like the rumors say she ate babies.

[00:50:11] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. I love that they play with all of that stuff.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_04]: Did she really trade her child for the Darkhold? Yeah.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, just because they're saying it, the other witches think so. Does that make it true?

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Can I just give shout out to Catherine Hawn too because she, I just love her acting.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I just love her campiness to, I don't know, just fun. I don't know.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I can't describe what she's doing. It's just hilarious though. And I love watching her on the screen.

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. I totally agree.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So the self-filling glasses, the puffy faces, pretty funny all like it's super entertaining

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_01]: thing though. And these are all clues to the poison, which is pretty good, but they had a

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_01]: good couple of comical moments. And I love the fact that Agatha is off timing from everybody else so

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_01]: that we get to wait every time, you know, as time is going on, I had a ticking clock in my head.

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, okay, when is she gonna get to swollen face? When is she gonna have the

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_01]: hallucination? When is she gonna have the, and that gave me some dramatic tension

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_01]: to, you know, that really carried me through the episode. So I was really invested because I wanted

[00:51:28] [SPEAKER_01]: to see like what is her face gonna look like when it gets all puffed up, right? Because she's off

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_04]: sequence of everybody else. And then knowing that she hasn't taken a sip yet.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. That again, self-preservation man. Yeah, yeah, completely. You guys can drink that. Okay,

[00:51:44] [SPEAKER_04]: we'll see what happens to you, but I'm getting the hell up out of here until you can't.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. Yeah. Self-preservation until it's the group that will save you.

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_04]: And she's finding and you have to participate. And she comes, she finally, you know, realizes that

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_01]: at the urging of teen. Who she protects again by not letting him drink. So again, like what,

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_01]: when you pointed out like she stood in front of him, she like stopped him from drinking.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah. So the self-filling glasses, I don't know. I was really very curious as how that

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_01]: practical effect worked, but it looked great. Yeah, it looked great. They did a good job.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they did. They did. So Alicia has a note in here about Jennifer Kale being an

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_01]: alchemist potions which and that this is something, is this a little something new

[00:52:38] [SPEAKER_01]: in the MCU? Have we seen this kind of portrayal of magic? And I love the fact that it goes into

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_01]: the practical magic aspect, right? As the teen said, well, okay, you're bound, but that doesn't

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_04]: mean that you can't not make a potion. Exactly. And she's looking for the proper ingredients to

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_04]: make said potion and she's looking for a cauldron to, you know, to cook the potion in. This

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_04]: that you may be depowered, but you're still a witch. You don't let them take that from you.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. Right. Right. I mean, I'll have a microphone, but I'm still a podcaster.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Does that work? I don't know if that works. You don't let them take your power.

[00:53:25] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. You don't let them take that from you. You still have it.

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really enjoying the Jennifer Kale character as well in that Kale. Like,

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I love that little play and I love the little play when she's like, oh, God,

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I look like one of my customers who she's praying on right? She's extracting value.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. Yes. They're eating wax man. Petroleum products. Yes. They're eating the wax. This is,

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_01]: you know. So, Alicia's got a couple of notes here that we should touch on really quick. The

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Ayle's wife revenge. Ayle's wife is a type of herring, a type of fish or a female beer brewer.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not sure how that plays into the Ayle's wife revenge. So maybe the,

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, the wife of the brewer is getting a revenge for something? I'm not sure.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. Yeah. That's something we have to get back to. We'll look that up.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_01]: We'll have to get back to that. Yeah, we'll see where it develops. And then delirium,

[00:54:28] [SPEAKER_01]: loss of motor function, heart racing hallucinations, hallucinations, death. So that's all the

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_01]: symptoms that she has to decode. And what's this other note here? Alicia's still predicting

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_01]: that man thing may make an appearance in episode nine. Because man thing is a character that's

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_01]: closely associated with Jen. So in the comics, is Jen a potions witch or did I read that note

[00:54:58] [SPEAKER_01]: wrong? She's not. She's not at what potions witch. So this is kind of new-ish. This is kind of,

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_04]: this is new. And you know, the man thing of it all, he's a nexus being meaning he could

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_04]: traverse all the universes, all the, you know, seen and unseen worlds. So he may be some something,

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_04]: someone who helps them to get off the road if that, you know, comes to it.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_04]: And that's probably one of Alicia's favorite characters, top five, top three maybe.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when we had a lot of fun covering the Werewolf by Night last year, which was a lot

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_01]: of fun. And of course, we had Ted there as well. So that's very cute. All right, let's go into the

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_01]: next scene. Unhappy hallucinations is they gather ingredients to create an antidote,

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_01]: the witches hallucinate. Leela sees her younger self from the Renaissance era. Jen

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_01]: hallucinates a doctor forcing her underwater. Alice sees her missing mother about to commit

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_01]: suicide. And Agatha sees a crib containing the Darkhold. As they prepare the antidote,

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_01]: they notice the house is now underwater, threatening to drown them. This whole sequence was so much

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_01]: fun. I loved every fear that they all had to face. Yeah. And Sharon's was heartbreaking,

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_04]: you know, when she's begging Wanda to let her husband breathe, you know?

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh gosh, I don't remember that. Yeah. Sharon partake, she partook in the trial, man.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. And then she fainted. Was it Sharon all along?

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Sharon all along? All right, so then that's, so she fainted and then she's out of it for

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the rest of the thing until the end. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so please, please, Wanda, I'm begging

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you, let's breathe. What episode was that? I wonder, I can't remember. I can't remember what

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_04]: episode that was. Okay. Don't quite remember. Might have been the first episode of Wanda Vision.

[00:57:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I don't, it was later. It must have been later. So anyway, the anecdote,

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_01]: so it can't be a Lorehounds podcast without Alicia going on a deep dive of every single

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_01]: ingredient that is required in here. So let's just go over the ingredients really quick.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Frankincense is an aromatic resin used in incense and perfumes obtained from trees in the

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Boswellia genus, which are tropical regions of Africa and Asia. And there's a sauna in the

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_01]: show that has essential oils. So that's where they're able to get that. And then the gut of a

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_01]: U-social insect. And I didn't catch, I just heard social insect or huge. I didn't hear the U-social

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_01]: insect part. Yeah, I heard huge social. I was like, what is that? But honey, okay, that makes

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_01]: sense. So these are all like mundane. They sound all very fancy and like, where the hell are

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_01]: you going to get all these ingredients? And they turn out to be super easy to obtain. So

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that's kind of cool. But they have to use their smarts. And this goes into what the team

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_01]: was saying was craft, right? Focus on craft. What do you call it? Analog magic?

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Analog. That's what he said. Yeah. A corpse that's been decaying for at least 30 million years,

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_01]: zooplankton in petroleum products. So that's interesting. So something I didn't know.

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I know what zooplankton is, but I didn't know that that zooplankton are in petroleum products,

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_01]: which is really interesting. And I love the fact that gents cosmetics are not organic.

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Eye of Newt is mustard seed. Never do that. That was new. And blood of the unpoisoned, conveniently

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_01]: the teen is there. And we need a cauldron, which is that nice big farmhouse sink that she has.

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_01]: And the sous vide. That was so cool. That was great.

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_04]: It's like this house has to have one. Never used, but has one.

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh man. So what happened to Leela during the Italian Renaissance?

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll see. Because this is, I thought that was the scariest of the visions.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agreed. It was totally the most spooky. Yeah, because I didn't see it coming.

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_04]: But she turns the corner and then she's back in the 15th or whatever, 16th century.

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_04]: And just, yeah, it was just spooky. It was just spooky. So really want to know what happened.

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what happened. And that's great because it gives us,

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: it illuminates again her character a little bit, but then sets up some more mystery to become

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: unresolved for us to have resolved by the end of the season. So there's a little

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_01]: dramatic tension there. And there's a little bit of her struggling with what it is that she's

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_04]: experiencing. And then she says, do you see when Rio was telling Agatha ICU,

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_04]: is there like a synergy to that? Is there something to that? I don't know. Right.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought too that this was the most visually interesting of all of the hallucinations.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It was the most spooky.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. I thought the most...

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll get to the others, but it hit a good spot for me as far as the vibe of the show.

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100%. So Alicia's got a note in here about a skull face that was drifting up from behind.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that the death?

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's how death is often portrayed in Marvel comics.

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_04]: So death is not an abstract. It's a real character who floats around the MCU comics at

[01:01:31] [SPEAKER_04]: large and does different things. It's a big part of Thanos' story in the comics.

[01:01:39] [SPEAKER_04]: So that's often how death is portrayed.

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I love that we're tracking Leela's random outbursts, which I think will play some part in

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_01]: so if you go back and rewatch the season after it's over, it'll like

[01:01:57] [SPEAKER_01]: we'll see some other level of things. It'll be fun.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But Alicia has noted here, she says, I love you guys.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Try to save Agatha. And then in Cecilia, after the hallucinations, she's dead. They're all dead.

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_04]: Is that foreshadowing?

[01:02:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. I have no idea what any of those are going to mean, but I just love the way

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_01]: that... What's her name here? Patty Lepone is playing it. She's spot on. She's so good.

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. Alice's mother, Lorna Wu, the rock star musician with the famous rendition of the ballad,

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_01]: made Alice get a protection tattoo when she was 13 because she said the woman in her family are cursed.

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So we see that she is in this... In her dressing room or what have you and

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: she has some sort of psychotic break, but it appears to be like she's having a psychotic

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: break. And there's a bunch in here, it looks like, according to Alicia's notes.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: What is this about? In the comics, Alice's grandmother is still alive, not a witch.

[01:03:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because she has her grandmother killed by a demon.

[01:03:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. Her mother in the comic books is killed by a demon.

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. Alice's... Right, Wu's... Right.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. Alice's mother is killed by a demon, which is how she gains her powers.

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_04]: They say her hereditary.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting. Oh, right. So when the mother dies and the powers transferred down next time?

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Red Rocks is an amphitheater in Colorado, in New Salem, Colorado? And Jean,

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_04]: you're supposedly supposed to know what this means?

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. So New Salem is where Agatha left Salem during the witch hunts, witch trials of the 16th

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_04]: century. She left Salem, Massachusetts and founded her own coven in New Salem, Colorado.

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. So then she's got a link to an article about the spooky secrets of Red Rock Amphitheater.

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Is Red Rock haunted? And it looks like they maybe built it over a cemetery or something,

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_01]: which is funny because we're doing the Poltergeist movies for Spooktober this year.

[01:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: I just watched the 1982 movie the other day and that's all spoilers. It's all about that. So

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that'll be a fun little weird crossover. And then in her vision, Lorna is playing with a lighter.

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Your grandmother died today thousands of miles away and I still feel it when it happened.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_01]: It's my turn now. It's going to kill me. And then she drinks something, Alice takes

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the flask and then she disappears. So this is all related. This feels like to me,

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_01]: of all these sidekick characters, this has a ton of lore woven into it, more so than maybe the

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_04]: other characters. Well, the thing is with Alice, you know, in the comics, she's a cop. Her father

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_04]: is a cop and she uses her magic in practical ways. She uses magic bullets, things of that nature.

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_04]: So we don't have a lot of comics with her in them. So there's not a tremendous amount of lore

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_04]: that goes into her story. But again, her grandmother hasn't died yet, but her mother

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_04]: did die. And when she says here, it's my turn now, it's going to kill me. I immediately went to the

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_04]: Mephisto. That's what's chasing her. I think they're all connected in some way to him.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. To it. Got it. And is that Mephisto, the big... That's interesting. Like a big shadow

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that's over all of this whole story. Over all of these characters, yeah. Got it.

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: In some way I feel that's what's going on. So then who's trying to drown Jen and saying that you're

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_01]: an inconvenient woman? That's a really specific line. Man, that hit me like wow. Wow. Like he's

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_04]: looking at this black woman and says, you're in it. You are an inconvenient woman.

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Inconvenience. You're causing me to not get what I want. You're constantly getting in the way.

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You're a piece of gum on my soul, on my shoe, making me stuck.

[01:06:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Just that hit in a different way. That flashback hit a different

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_04]: verb, you know, nerve in me. It was just so... Like... And then to know that she is actively

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_04]: fighting to get her power back. Right. Right. And actively engaging and knowing that yes,

[01:07:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I may have been bound, but I am still me. I am still powerful. I am still knowledgeable.

[01:07:32] [SPEAKER_04]: I can still do things. You don't get to take that away from me.

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_04]: Right. You don't get to define me. Right. Right. That is... That's just... Yeah.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: This is... You know, this probably has nothing to do with anything, but I had a weird

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_01]: crossover thought that... I don't know if you know who H.H. Holmes is and the whole thing with

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_01]: the devil in the white city during the Chicago World's Fair, there was this guy who was a serial

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_01]: killer. Yeah. He was a doctor. And that's how he would lure his victims and how he would engage

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_01]: with his victims because he was a medical doctor, quote unquote. And it just made me... This

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: character for some whatever reason made me think that. And I don't know... I haven't thought...

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_01]: I've read that book, but like years ago, I know very little about the actual lore,

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_01]: but that's where my brain went. Okay. Some sort of, you know... Not Jekyll and Hyde,

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: but some sort of medical trick thing. Anyway, who knows? Well, I doubt it has any real meaning.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Agatha, the crib holding the Darkhold instead of her son. So again, we're just... We've

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: talked a bunch about that already, but that's her thing that she's got to...

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Sharon wakes up and then dies.

[01:08:55] [SPEAKER_04]: That was crush, man. I was looking at her face. I was crushed. Like no. No. No.

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I think she's coming back. I think she's coming back. All right. All right. All right.

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. Last scene. A narrow escape, one down, five to go with a few seconds left on the

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: timer. They finish the end of it, drink it and feed some to Sharon as they do.

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Water starts pouring in, but a tunnel appears and then the coven escapes through it back to the road.

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: As they recover, the teen discovers that Sharon is dead.

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Jean, what did you think of the whole final scene here with the water cracking in and the

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_04]: stove... The escape through the stove? Well, I love that they had to escape through the stove,

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_04]: through the oven. That was so on brand. Totally.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And I love that they use the big handle as a shoot to pull themselves through.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it was Lila who said, Lilia, who says, I'm not going in that oven. I knew a witch that went in the oven.

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I think the writers are just having fun with witch lore and modern culture and everything.

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_01]: The writing is so funny and punchy and like right on the nose.

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_04]: She says, I had a friend. She had a lovely house. Died in an oven.

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's just good stuff, man. I thought that when Agatha tells,

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Jen, we've spoken about this a few times, she says, I have always hated you,

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_04]: but I left you alone because what you were doing was important, not this kill, care crap.

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Huh. What is real work? What was she doing? Yeah, yeah. What is that? Is there any clues in the comics?

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know because this is not the care. I can't draw a line between her comic character

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_04]: and what's going on here. Okay. There are so many magical totems and books and things in

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_04]: Marvel comics like the Toma Zaretna, which is named after Jennifer's Atlantean ancestor.

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_04]: And it said that she's the reincarnation of this person.

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_04]: And I believe that the Toma was meant to trap secrets and demons. So was she in some way working

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_04]: with Agatha to trap someone or something? I don't know because there's nothing in the story that is

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_04]: telling me that she is this person that we've seen in the comics. The only hint is you were doing

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_04]: real work. I don't know what the real work is. And I want to know, this is a thread that I want to

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_04]: pull on and I'm hoping that we get more of her backstory as well as everyone else's backstory,

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_04]: of course. But what was the real work that Jennifer was doing? Because obviously it's

[01:12:22] [SPEAKER_01]: important to Agatha. Right. I left you alone. So a note that I picked up on,

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and I don't think it has anything determinative to the story, to the plotline. But I just thought

[01:12:34] [SPEAKER_01]: it was funny is that the water has to turn cerulean blue. That's how they know that it's going to

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_01]: make. That's working, yeah. So there's a famous X-Files episode from back in the day. I think

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: it's the episodes titled The Pusher. And that uses a season three episode 17. So the

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: internet's tell me, which came out in 1996. And it involves the word cerulean blue and

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: it's like a plot mechanic part of it. And then we have cerulean blue in the 2006

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_01]: movie The Devil Wears Prada where Meryl Streep kind of body slams and Halfway's character.

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: There's this whole famous speech about cerulean blue. So I don't think again,

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: like it has anything to do with the actual plot. I just thought it was a funny thing because

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_01]: cerulean blue has its own little cinematic history. I had no idea. I had no idea. It's great.

[01:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: The Devil Wears Prada? Perfect film. Fight me.

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_01]: It is. It's a perfect film. I love that movie. It's a perfect movie. It is an absolutely on

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_04]: screen, on paper. It is a perfect movie. I got two fight me's from David this episode.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna at me. Yeah. Get that David. Down to one witch now says Alicia in the note. So

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_01]: down one green witch. Down one green witch. That's what it is. Yes, that's what I should be saying.

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So dot dot dot. Aubrey Plaza. I think there was some... I saw a trailer or a teaser or something

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_04]: the other day where it seems like she makes her own trailer. Climbing out of the dirt.

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if she's the green witch though. I loved Aubrey Plaza's chemistry in episode

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_01]: one. I thought that whole thing with that whole bit was hilarious and I was just ready for more.

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. There's a lot of fun. We'll see if that comes through fruition,

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_01]: but I don't know if she's the green witch. I don't know yet. So Alicia has her final note on

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_01]: the episode here. The credit song off with your head by the yeah, yeah, yeahs. Alicia's

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: notes that she loves songs so much. And then that when her parents... She's visiting her

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_01]: family right now and when they tried to skip the credits, she yelled at them.

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Great song, great band. Great song, great band. I do sometimes really get annoyed when there's a

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: great needle drop for the credit thing and then the stupid like watch next and it's timed out

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_01]: before you can get the remote and then navigate the remote to the spot to stop it or like how

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_01]: do I get out of that or whatever? And there are so many times where I've inadvertently

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: advanced to the show rather than held on the really annoying. Anyway, well, that's the episode

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_01]: mostly. We've got some spoilery comic based speculation and we've got feedback including

[01:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: an audio note from Mark from our newest podcast, Nevermind the Music. He's got some musical

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: notes for us. So stick around right after the break. We will get into that.

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And we are back. And before we get into our feedback section, we've got an audio from Mark

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: from Nevermind the Music and a handful of comments from folks email and otherwise.

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Jean, a little bit of speculation speculation based on any marker or any bets that you want

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_01]: to put down anything you want to stick a pin in. You know, like I said earlier, I don't think

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_04]: Teen is the dark hold. I don't. Okay. I don't think he's Agatha's long lost son. I don't.

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_04]: I am now firmly agreeing with Alicia that Teen is Wiccan who is Wanda's son. Okay.

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Billy Kaplan. Okay. Wait, well, Wanda's son Billy Kaplan. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. One of the twins?

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. Okay. All right. That'll be interesting. Yeah. At least she has a note here that she

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: still insists that Teen is Wiccan. Yeah. All right. And does Nicholas Scratch does become an

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_04]: agent of Ms. Fisto in the comics? So he does. And this is a callback to what they said earlier

[01:17:13] [SPEAKER_04]: that he could be an agent of Ms. Fisto, right? When they're talking about Teen in the kitchen.

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_04]: But I don't think he's Nicholas Scratch. Okay. So could he still be an agent of Ms.

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Fisto at this point? Possibly. But I don't believe he's Nicholas Scratch.

[01:17:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know enough to make any solid theories so I can only go on from what I'm seeing

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: on the show and that there's got to be some relationship between Teen and the Darkhold.

[01:17:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I could see the Darkhold having some sort of physical embodiment in this world.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think obviously the Darkhold we know, as you've said, is bound up in Wanda and her

[01:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: relationship with her son and they keep dropping this, oh, I don't need babies or I don't hurt

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_01]: babies, but at the same time, you know, she gave up her child or whatever. So yeah,

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a nexus there for sure. I don't know what to predict in it, just that there is a nexus.

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if Teen is some sort of combination of, you know,

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_04]: Wiccan, Darkhold, Magi, Wanda, Agatha, but I'm just not of the belief any longer that he is

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_01]: simply the Darkhold. Okay, all right. Well, let's get into some feedback. Mark from Nevermind the

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Music, which is a great podcast that joined the Lorhounds community as an affiliate. Mark and

[01:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Nicole take songs and break them down. Mark's a music theory and production teacher and Nicole's

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_01]: psychology professor. So let's take a listen to Mark's feedback.

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey there, Lorhounds. Mark here with some feedback for Agatha all along.

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mentioned to Alicia that I had some opinions about the music used in episode two of this show,

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and it became clear that I wouldn't really be able to easily type it up in an email or post it on

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Discord. So I figured I would send in some audio feedback. That way I can do musical examples

[01:19:17] [SPEAKER_02]: just like I would in Nevermind the Music podcast. Perfect. Don't worry, nothing too crazy here.

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: In general, I've really liked this show so far. I like how fun and silly it's been,

[01:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: especially in episodes two and three. I haven't seen Mervys Town yet, so the first episode,

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_02]: though it felt a little true detective-y to me, I don't think I got as many of the references,

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_02]: so that one wasn't quite as fun but really digging the show overall. In any case,

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to share some thoughts on the Down the Witches Road singing sequence

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: at the end of episode two. So I don't remember which podcast it was, but some Lorhounds coverage

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: last year or something like that, they were using the term diagetic music. To me, music that

[01:19:57] [SPEAKER_02]: actually exists in the world, meaning someone on screen is listening to music on a radio.

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: That music is heard by the characters. That is called diagetic music and music that is just

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_02]: a part of our watching experience, we call non-diagetic music. So for example, just the

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: background score or a needle drop of some pop song in a superhero movie or whatever.

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Though not necessarily Guardians of the Galaxy because in those, I think Star Lords

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_02]: actually literally listening to the music on cassettes. Anyways, I'm distracting myself with

[01:20:30] [SPEAKER_02]: my tiny amount of Marvel Universe lore. So anyways, when they're opening the gate to

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: the Witches Road, they sing this song. The whole coven sings it together

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: while the Salem Seven are coming to attack them, right? I like this music because it's

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_02]: not too good. I love this scene because it was kind of amateur. Alright, that sounds weird,

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: right? I'm kind of giving a backhanded compliment, right? Let me explain what I mean. Oftentimes,

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you'll have characters singing or performing on stage in a movie or a TV show and it just

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_02]: sounds too good. Anybody who's ever sang acapella or been in a choir or played in a band

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_02]: or played in an orchestra knows how many hours it takes to make something even sound

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: okay, let alone great. And so often when in a movie or a TV show performers just sort of spontaneously

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: start performing everything is just perfect and challenging and you're wondering, well, I'm

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: wondering because this is who I am. When did they practice? How much rehearsal did they take?

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Where did they practice? These scenes take me out when the music is too good and too hard

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_02]: that is not how you create music. It takes tons of work. You can't just suddenly go, hey, let's sing

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_02]: four-part harmony or whatever. So that's what I loved about this scene. It sounded compositionally

[01:21:53] [SPEAKER_02]: like something a bunch of witches who don't know each other but have some shared tradition

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: would be able to pull off. You've got a few of them singing the melody together,

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: generally in unison sounding pretty good, but you know it's a pretty simple,

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: folky kind of melody and then you've got these low harmonies that come in. But what are they doing?

[01:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: One note.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why I love this. The harmony parts, the parts that take dozens of hours of rehearsal to make

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_02]: even sound mediocre. It's one note, so it's reasonable for me to think that I'm trying to remember who

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the low characters were. Like Jen, I think is one of the ones who's singing the alto part.

[01:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just one note. I believe that she did not need to practice that. I believe that she could

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_02]: just sing along with Agatha on her one note. She's like, okay, road, okay, that's my note, boom.

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just going to sing that note and maybe change it like once. I love that. And then

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: later high notes come in and guess what they're doing? They're just singing the same note,

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_02]: one octave higher. Easy.

[01:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: You have a few people who know the tune. The rest of the people just make up a part.

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: No complicated harmonies, no rehearsal space needed. I love this song for it actually feeling

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: realistic. None of the characters and musicians, they obviously can carry a tune.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's enough. They've heard the song enough, they can do it. This is not unrealistic. I loved it.

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And then even at the end when it's this big climax, they're all singing on top of each other,

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: not just one note. It sounds improvisational. They're just sort of going down the wh-

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Down the witch's road or down, down, down, down at various intervals on top of each other.

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's doing carefully choreographed crazy Beach Boys vocal harmonies or anything like that.

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just simple and reasonable that after a few hundred years of witch training,

[01:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you probably just know it. Right? And I love that.

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: One more fun part, the pitch pipe. Everybody who's ever seen Barbra Schopper

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Occapella knows you've got that pitch pipe. Barre, giving you your first note.

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And what is Agatha doing? When they move between different keys, she dings a bell.

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that. So subtle. She gives the group their next pitch.

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_02]: All right. Now, is there anything I didn't love about this scene? And by the way,

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_02]: thank you for indulging me. I know this is crazy long feedback. It's really,

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a Mark segment to the episode. Let's be honest. I didn't love the production of it.

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_02]: This is something that I'm always going to be annoyed with, with most presentations of music

[01:25:11] [SPEAKER_02]: within the world, like most diegetic music in a movie or film. Their notes are a little too

[01:25:17] [SPEAKER_02]: perfect. There's a little too much pitch correction on their voices, whether we're talking

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: auto tune or a software like that. I've actually dropped the audio of this song into

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: pitch correction software to see that yes, in fact, those harmony parts are perfectly

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: in tune in a way that a human being wouldn't be certainly in the middle of somebody's basement,

[01:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: but also literally can't be at all. Now, I am not a hater on the use of a little pitch correction.

[01:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: We actually have a Nevermind the Music episode on T-Pain coming up later in the season that

[01:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: we get into deep about that. That's not the point. When you're listening to music,

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to use a little technology to save you a little time, make it sound a certain

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: way, go for it. But it takes me out of the scene when these humans sound impossible.

[01:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And they literally comment on somebody being flat. I don't remember who it was, but they

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: comment, oh yeah, you were flat on that and they were not flat. They were perfectly in tune

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: because of the way they recorded the song. And I just feel like it would be more effective

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: if they'd let them actually be a little flat or they'd made that sound a little more rough.

[01:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I know there's a certain professional polish that everybody on the audio team of this show

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_02]: must sort of maintain for their own dignity. I get that. They don't want anybody to cringe

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_02]: listening to the music and certainly none of these actors want to be on camera singing really bad,

[01:26:39] [SPEAKER_02]: but a little bit more real sounding in the production would be great. This also goes for

[01:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the way it's mixed. The vocals are all like exactly the same level. We call that compression.

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You can make the quiet notes really loud and the loud notes more quiet, and it just sort of takes

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: the life out of it a little bit. I like it in a good pop song. Don't like it when I'm supposed

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_02]: to be drawn into the characters. So my review, really long review, great show, love the use

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: of music, especially from a compositional and arrangement standpoint. The mixing is doing

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: the same thing that all the shows do, which is to say I'm a little unhappy with it, but

[01:27:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't expect them to fight my fight, can I? Bro. That's great. That's awesome. Wow.

[01:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I was not expecting that. I did listen to it before and I loved hearing that song being sung

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: in that episode. It gave me so many feels and I think it was one of the things that really

[01:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: hooked me into the show, just the melodic nature of it. But I had never... The whole bell thing,

[01:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the whole like everything that Mark just broke down, dude, I'm just blown away at the way that the...

[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_04]: I just thought the bell was part of the song. Exactly. Just part of the ritual.

[01:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Dude. But really, that's great. That's great. Yeah. I just love the idea that there's a song

[01:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: that these witches can just get together and sing and everybody's kind of be all over the place,

[01:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's going to work. That was really super fascinating. Super fascinating.

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to go listen to that song now. Exactly.

[01:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: When he kept cutting the music off, I was like, no, let it play.

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I am definitely going to go listen to it after this.

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Mark, thank you so much. That was amazing. Everyone, go check out

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Never Mind the Music, the link in the show notes. This was like a smuggled reference to

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: get you to go listen to Never Mind the Music. Mark did this spontaneously. He wrote in feedback

[01:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: just like y'all do. I mean, Stevie Wonder, T-Pain, let's go. Hey. All right, Maureen D has a

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Wizard of Oz reference from episode one. In episode one, we get a pre-credits scene

[01:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Wizard of Oz quote with really most sincere dead and then cut to the opening credits with

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_01]: down, down, down the road lyrics over a scene of a country road with a yellow tape representing

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: the yellow brick road enter the wicked witch. Maureen adds after episode two, I'm not sure if

[01:29:18] [SPEAKER_01]: it'll be one to one with a coven, but Tin Man no heart, Rio has no heart and a black heart,

[01:29:26] [SPEAKER_01]: scarecrow, no brain, straw hat on ditzy Miss Heart, Lion no courage, Agatha tells one of them she's a

[01:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: coward and Mrs. Hart singing ease on down the road from the whiz as she goes down the stairs to the

[01:29:41] [SPEAKER_01]: road. Okay. All right, I see you two laying down there, Maureen. I like it. I like it.

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Separately, the fight between Agatha and Rio reminded me of the scene towards the end

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_01]: of the craft with Aubrey Plaza looking a lot like Fireuza, not sure Fireuza bulk,

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_01]: heavy liner on the eyes and slick back hair and throwing her across the room with wind power.

[01:30:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Note from Alicia they feature a clip of Fireuza bulk from the craft. I apologize if I'm

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_01]: butchering the name. I'm making it as I can, as we go here from the craft

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_01]: of her pointy toward boots dragging across the floor as she levitates while attacking someone else

[01:30:24] [SPEAKER_01]: earlier in the film. Yeah. And then episode three note, a few of Jed, Deborah, Joe, Rup's lines were

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_01]: hints like bury me in the kitchen and this is end looks like this was her looks like this

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: the water trial, the fire should be scary. All right, there's a lot of stuff in there that

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not picking up on. Are you able to? No, I saw a lot of supposition that she points out

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_04]: about the craft for this show as well. So it makes, you know, what she wrote down definitely

[01:30:57] [SPEAKER_04]: makes a lot of sense. Okay. Yeah, just I watched the craft when it came out, but I haven't

[01:31:05] [SPEAKER_04]: watched it recently. So I can't recall the exact scenes, but I know folks who love that

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_04]: movie and who are watching this as well have said they're reminded of the craft in certain

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_04]: instances like with the Agatha and Rio fight. Okay, got it. I have not seen the craft,

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_01]: but it does not surprise me at all that the show runners and writers are just pulling in

[01:31:32] [SPEAKER_01]: all kinds of great witchy illusions and lore and other media and inspiration. That would be

[01:31:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I think on brand for what Wanda vision and Agatha, what I kind of expect from this

[01:31:45] [SPEAKER_04]: corner of the MCU. And then, you know, Sharon's, you know, lines. I just,

[01:31:53] [SPEAKER_04]: I heard them while watching the episode, but I pretended not to hear them.

[01:31:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. I acted like I didn't hear what she just said, but I heard it all.

[01:32:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So they're layering some stuff in here. They're laying some stuff in. That's great.

[01:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. DB Mack regarding episode two, I enjoyed this episode quite a bit, nothing

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_01]: against the first episode, but my memory of Wanda vision was hazy and I wasn't quite vibing

[01:32:17] [SPEAKER_01]: with the parody. Not sure parody is the right word of the true detective show style.

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_01]: So when I first watched Wanda vision when it came out fresh on television,

[01:32:28] [SPEAKER_01]: and it was the first television offering of post, you know, of the MCU post,

[01:32:36] [SPEAKER_01]: post the Avengers, I did not understand what they were giving me. I did because I wasn't seeing

[01:32:42] [SPEAKER_01]: anything because we were just like, what is this? You know, 1950s sitcom? What is this 1960s sitcom?

[01:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And then by that time I kind of bounced out and it sort of went away because it was so heavy.

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. So it wasn't until, I don't know, whatever it was episode four or something

[01:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: where we start to break the containment dome wall and we get into the rest of the stuff.

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it was like, oh, okay, I recognize MCU stuff on here. Yeah. So I guess I'd be my sort of

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: one one critique of Wanda vision would be that that I didn't earlier on have enough to break me

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: out of what they were doing. But in this they set up, I'm like, Oh, okay, here we go into

[01:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: this whole world thing. But then they break us right out so that we're not lost in the

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: in the trope of that, right? We're not stuck in that world. And if they're doing these

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_01]: like sort of soft edged illusions to other genres and stuff as parts of the trials going forward,

[01:33:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a I think it's a workable balance between having fun with the topic

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_01]: of these other television shows but in and incorporating into the show without us getting

[01:33:46] [SPEAKER_01]: lost in the show and the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So Davey Matt continues.

[01:33:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But now that we are in a completely new territory, this is the episode where I started

[01:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: to perk up loved getting the crew coven together. And this is a great coven everyone seems to be

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: having a great time and all are putting in strong performances. I also liked the demon

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_01]: which is showing up while the song was being sung, and the neighbor being like, Oh hell no,

[01:34:12] [SPEAKER_01]: when they multiplied really fun. And I'm now in for the season. Yeah. Yeah. The Salem seven

[01:34:22] [SPEAKER_04]: are great. Great device. They were really spooky. Yeah, they're they're properly spooky.

[01:34:28] [SPEAKER_04]: Just the way that they had to move the way that they had them look. It was good stuff. It was

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: good stuff. Right. We've got Paulson 20 on the discord regarding episode two. They say

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: really fun episode like the various witches and the part where Sharon was me or made a stand

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_01]: in for the green witch and she didn't know what was going on. And then Marine D

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_01]: kicked in saying maybe a call back to practical magic and Alicia added good catch creators of

[01:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: sighted practical magic is one of the key inspirations for this season. Oh, wow. Okay.

[01:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. So good catch. And that I think it definitely goes back because the teen then

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_01]: says it in this episode and then we get Jen actually just doing a potion in a specific

[01:35:09] [SPEAKER_01]: order which doesn't require her to use magical powers. Zatuichi regarding episode three

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_01]: so sad if Sharon is done. I laughed often but teen not knowing counterclockwise was way too funny

[01:35:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and sadly realistic. That was great. People are we teaching our children or what? We have a job as

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: parents. Our experience as a parent. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's not the same as our job as a parent.

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_04]: He is reading the clock. He's looking at the clock. He's not just looking at the numbers on

[01:35:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the phone. Yeah. Explain things to your kids. Lefty Lucy, righty tidy, right? Clockwise, counter

[01:35:47] [SPEAKER_01]: clockwise. All of this stuff. This is our job please. Too easy to get lost in the digital

[01:35:55] [SPEAKER_01]: world these days. Let's keep it practical. I don't think I've ever watched practical magic.

[01:36:00] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think I have either. It's something to think about.

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see. Yeah, no. 1998 comedy fantasy film. 98. Yep. Bullock and Kidman.

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. I don't think I've ever watched it. Yeah. No. I do not know. It's

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_01]: two witch sisters raised by their eccentric aunts in a small town faced closed-minded prejudice

[01:36:25] [SPEAKER_01]: with a curse that prevents them from ever finding lasting love. Okay.

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay. Yeah, I didn't watch that.

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_04]: All right. Yeah, I think... Go ahead.

[01:36:39] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I said I haven't watched it but maybe.

[01:36:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. No, it's a rom-com with magic. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. Kidman and Bullock are in

[01:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: they are there in their young phase here. Okay. If you go to IMDB, they have the trailer

[01:36:55] [SPEAKER_01]: looking in there right away. So it's pretty funny. It's cute. But anyway,

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: back to Zatui, she's comment about Sharon. I think, yeah, we're... You and I are both of the

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_01]: mind that she's coming out of some way, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's not done. We don't want to lose her.

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. Last comment from Davie Mack. Also a bummer to see Sharon go enjoying this season

[01:37:17] [SPEAKER_01]: quite a bit. Love the creepy Patty Lepone hallucination. Yeah. So do we think the

[01:37:24] [SPEAKER_01]: lack of Sharon's hair being added to the sink is why she ultimately didn't make it. That is

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_01]: right. She did not... They did not use her hair. I remember feeling that or seeing that when they

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_01]: were doing it. I'm like, what about Sharon's hair? And then of course I got caught up with the drama

[01:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: of them not feeding her the potion in time. Right. Maybe, yeah. She was not included in the

[01:37:43] [SPEAKER_04]: magic at all. Hair or drinking. She was not included in the antidote but she wasn't included

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_04]: in the magic. Sorry, sorry. The antidote. Yeah. So that's what gives me hope. Yeah.

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Keep hope alive. Yeah. I'm thinking it's a Willy Wonka kind of situation.

[01:38:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So, all right. Alicia, she's got a big final note here. One thing Jean and I didn't talk about in

[01:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: the breakdown of the first two episodes that she's seeing theories about online is the exchange

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that happens when Rio brings Agnes pizza while she still hext Agnes being Agatha.

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It starts with Agatha talking about a car wreck in Eastview, which is where the teen says he's from

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_01]: in episode two and then leads into the B team... B into what? Into team home break-in. Sorry,

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not reading. Leads into the B team home break-in. I'm not understanding your note here.

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, Alicia. But anyway, it leads into the break-in of team break-in to the home,

[01:38:46] [SPEAKER_01]: which is funny, Eastview, right? Isn't there witches of Eastwick and... Yeah.

[01:38:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Mayor of Easttown and other plans with all these words. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, continuing in the closing credits, there's a headline about an accident three years

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_01]: ago. Teen also made a comment in episode three possibly that a lot happened to me three years

[01:39:09] [SPEAKER_01]: ago when I was 13 and Agatha was in the hext three years ago. Hmm. Also, lots of... Oh yeah,

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_01]: if there was a car wreck that involved the bubble, the hext somehow. Right. Yeah. Right.

[01:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. Also, lots of fun chatter and positive energy going on in the discord didn't pull

[01:39:28] [SPEAKER_01]: individual comments. People were loving the upbeat spooky vibes, the cast acting, especially

[01:39:33] [SPEAKER_01]: the chemistry between Agatha and Rio and Mrs. Hart. Sorry, Sharon Davis. We're all sorry,

[01:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I was correct about her death theory. Honestly, I just noticed she wasn't in a lot of the promo

[01:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: scenes, but I'm still holding out hope she might somehow be rescued down the road.

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_01]: After all, this episode has tricks in the title. Yes. To quote Abby, don't let anything happen

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_01]: to teen Agatha. Yes, that's in the... As part of the show's conceit or asks Alicia,

[01:40:03] [SPEAKER_01]: is he going to wind up giving us a surprising heel turn?

[01:40:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Allah, soul from the acolytes. Looking forward to next week where I expect we'll see another trial.

[01:40:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Will it be fire, which I think means Alice? Earth, Greenwich, no. Or air, could that be

[01:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Lila? We'll just have to see. All right. Well, that was a fun episode. Thanks everyone

[01:40:27] [SPEAKER_01]: for sticking around. I hope you enjoyed Agatha, Alicia. Sorry, Alicia, I just crossed you over

[01:40:36] [SPEAKER_01]: with Agatha. I'm sure you'll appreciate that. We'll be back next week with you, Jean, covering this.

[01:40:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll probably send in a note or something like that. Awesome. Otherwise, Agatha's going to be

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_01]: out every week through October with a double finale for Halloween. And Jean, you and I

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_01]: just covered... We did our instant reactions for the penguin, but we haven't decided how we're going to

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_01]: go forward with the penguin. Oh, yeah, we need to talk about that. Yeah, I think we should maybe

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_01]: just do what we did, which is a shorter podcast where we don't do the scene by scene, but we

[01:41:13] [SPEAKER_01]: just do a character evolution, like analyzing from a character. Yeah, that could be fun. That

[01:41:24] [SPEAKER_01]: behind the scenes look. It's a lot to do a scene by scene breakdown, and you have to

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_01]: watch it at least twice. At one time where you're actually taking the notes and doing all the

[01:41:35] [SPEAKER_01]: things. And then we have the recording of the podcast and then the editing of the podcast. So

[01:41:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the total time in on a podcast can be five to six hours of time. For the editor and the

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_01]: person who's producing it, and then at least two to three hours for the other guest hosts.

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a huge commitment, not at all a complaint, just a realistic assessment where with a

[01:41:58] [SPEAKER_01]: character study, we can just jump in and hit it real quick. Okay. And talk about our favorite.

[01:42:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's see, we are still working on Rings of Power. That is about to wrap up. We have...

[01:42:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Some of us have already seen episode eight. Oh, God. I'm sorry.

[01:42:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Episode was good. Did you see episode seven? Can we talk about episode eight offline?

[01:42:26] [SPEAKER_01]: No. Can you give me some spoilers? I have a sigil. Amazon put a sigil on me. So if I

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_04]: started talking about it, my mouth would be filled up. I know. You guys are so good with that.

[01:42:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we have to be. But you know what? We do it for the fans because... Yeah,

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm excited. Episode seven was quite possibly my favorite episode of the season.

[01:42:50] [SPEAKER_04]: It did put what a penultimate episode was supposed to do. Just to give you that high high.

[01:42:55] [SPEAKER_04]: It wasn't the battle scene. No, no, no, no. That was just the rapper for the character work.

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yeah. Just Charlie Vickers is just... Dude.

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope he doesn't get typecast too hard into that role of the gaslighter in chief.

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, would it be a bad thing?

[01:43:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Well, I don't want it to have the kid who played Joffrey and things like that.

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he's good. He's really good. Yeah. He's really good.

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to have our... We should have a lore cast out. And then we'll do another

[01:43:34] [SPEAKER_01]: feedback. And then I think we'll have a wrap up after eight as well.

[01:43:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We just wrapped up almost all of our Alien Romulus special project coverage. I've got one more to do,

[01:43:45] [SPEAKER_01]: which is some community reactions. I talked to some folks in the community and...

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't wait to hit them.

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit behind on scheduling, but we'll have it up. And

[01:43:54] [SPEAKER_01]: it's sort of a new thing, but it should be fun. Beetlejuice was just released. Brandon

[01:44:00] [SPEAKER_01]: and Alicia just covered that. Stay tuned for October. We've got Poltergeist coverage. We've

[01:44:07] [SPEAKER_01]: got some special coverage for just our subscribers, and then we'll have some general

[01:44:15] [SPEAKER_01]: coverage as well on the movies. Alicia's got a big plan for that. And then coming up in the

[01:44:22] [SPEAKER_01]: future, I believe Silo is coming back. Yes, it is.

[01:44:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Covering that overall in her wool shift dust podcast feed. And then in November, we have

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Dune Prophecy. I'm going to be spearheading that and then Alicia is going to be joining me.

[01:44:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to slide into December. We've got a whole thing planned for Romcoms.

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Jon's going to be covering that as taking care of that as well,

[01:44:47] [SPEAKER_01]: as well as our sort of end of year wrap up stuff.

[01:44:50] [SPEAKER_04]: And Creature Commandos.

[01:44:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Creature Commandos? What's that?

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, DC.

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_04]: The first official James Gun product.

[01:44:59] [SPEAKER_01]: When is that? When is that dropping?

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_04]: December. I don't have the exact date, but yeah, December is coming.

[01:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: All right. All right. So remember if you appreciate what we do and you want to support

[01:45:11] [SPEAKER_01]: the community because there's a lot of inputs that go into this and you're just enjoying it,

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you can join us on Supercast or Patreon as a subscriber. You get early and ad-free access.

[01:45:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I think that's about it. Go check out Nevermind the Music.

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's pretty much the only affiliate that's up to anything right now.

[01:45:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I believe Radioactive Ramblings just had a fallout lore episode drop the other week.

[01:45:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But hopefully Anthony will be back with properly Howard Movie Reviews before too long.

[01:45:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a packed, packed 2025 coming at us. So quick shout out to our Discord server boosters.

[01:45:57] [SPEAKER_01]: These are folks who donate their Nitro bits to making the community space a little bit better,

[01:46:04] [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit more functional. Narls, Aaron Kay, Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas,

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Dube71, Captain Jinji56, Athena Agilea, Adrienne Tina, Lestu, Nancy M., and Ghost of Perdition.

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you all so much for supporting the community and to our lore masters, our top tier

[01:46:23] [SPEAKER_01]: subscribers, those folks who subscribe at the highest tier really form the cornerstone

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_01]: of our ability to create this community and to create all this great content for y'all.

[01:46:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So, Martian, Michael G., Michelle E., David W., Brian P., SC, Peter OH, Bettina W.,

[01:46:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Adam S., Nancy M., Dube71, Brian 8063, Frederick H., Sarah L., Gareth C., Eric F., Matthew M.,

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah M., DJ Miwa, Andra B., Kwon New, Dead Eye, Jedi Bob, Nathan T., Alex V., Aaron T.,

[01:46:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Sub-Zero, Aaron Kay, Dali B., Mothership61, Narls, Kathy W., Lestu, Jeffrey B., Elisa U., Fossi U.,

[01:47:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Neil F., Ben B., Charlotte M., and for Everlast, but never least, Adrienne.

[01:47:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks all everyone for your ongoing support. I mean a lot of these folks have been around

[01:47:18] [SPEAKER_01]: for a long time. Seriously, we couldn't do it without you. We use the money for all our

[01:47:22] [SPEAKER_01]: systems and platforms. We make sure our co-hosts are taken care of as well.

[01:47:28] [SPEAKER_01]: And whether you listen on the ad-supported feeds or if you're a subscriber at any level,

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_01]: we're just glad that you're here and are joining us for all this fun that we're having.

[01:47:40] [SPEAKER_04]: Jean? Indeed, indeed. Just thank you everyone for the support, for your ears.

[01:47:45] [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be back next week and recast the chala.

[01:47:49] [SPEAKER_00]: The Lorhounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorhounds.

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_00]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorhounds.com slash contact.

[01:47:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Get early and ad-free access to all Lorhounds podcasts at patreon.com slash The Lorhounds.

[01:48:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Any opinions stated or are theirs personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to

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