Agatha All Along – S01E06 – Familiar by Thy Side (MCUniverse)

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[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_11]: Who are you?

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_11]: My name is William Kaplan.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_08]: Say again.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Billy Maximoff.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Alicia Brenner and I'm here with...

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, I'm Jean. We are the Law Hounds and this is Comic Versus.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is a new MC Universe breakdown of Agatha Episode 6, Familiar by Thy Side.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll make sure you understood everything that happened in Billy's backstory episode.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Dinging up the Easter eggs you might have missed and musing over what it all means.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll be launching right into spoilers, so make sure you're caught up before listening on.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And fair warning, we reserve the right to bring up anything else we might find relevant from either the MCU or Marvel Comics as a whole.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_06]: We also want to hear and discuss your thoughts about the show and everything else.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Please send your feedback to mcu at thelawhounds.com.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_06]: You'll find that link in the show notes, voicemails encouraged as well.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So, Jean, what did you think of the episode overall?

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Do we have a new favorite again?

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Favorite episode?

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Episode 6.

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's keep the trend going.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's keep the trend going.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: What were you to highlight?

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Just Joe Locke.

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Everything about him and the role that he's inhabiting right now.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Just the entire story, the background, how they fleshed it out, how they explained what is going on.

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_06]: And I love that they're not taking time to drag out explanations.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_06]: They're giving us explanations, I think I said it last week, exactly when we need them, when I want them.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_06]: And I thought this was really, really, really a great way to come back off the cliffhanger that they left us with in the last episode.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, this was really a standout performance for me in terms of his acting and a standout performance in just the entire feel, vibe of the episode tied into so many things that the MCU has done over the last few years.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, this was a well-crafted story.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I liked how the balance of, you know, some deep emotional shit, like when you especially we're going to take a moment to really think about some of the beats that were revealed.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's, there's some dark stuff in there, but also there was some great humor, obviously, especially seeing, I went back by the way, and I watched, rewatched the first two episodes after seeing this.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was, and then watch this again.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was really funny just to see Agatha's hex version of things versus reality.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_06]: That was hilarious.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_06]: That was, that was funny.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: We got a satisfying number of questions answered.

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_02]: We got a cameo that I thought was possible, but didn't necessarily go the way I expected.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's, there's a lot to dig into here that this was, this was again, my new favorite of the season.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_06]: How many we have left?

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Three?

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm only hoping that we were able to say the same things after the next three, you know?

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, when Man-Thing shows up in episode nine, then, you know, that'll do it.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want people to know I will be okay if Man-Thing does not show up in episode nine.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Are we sure about that?

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_06]: We're not sure, dear listener.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_06]: We're not sure.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's jump into the recap.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're again going to focus first on the recapping part, like breaking down one scene at a time.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we're going to sort through our newest character clues and revelations and end with feedback from the community.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And this episode is called episode six.

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Familiar by thy side.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_02]: It was written by Jason Rostovsky, who has worked mostly on horror movies, which is actually, this is probably the least horror one that we've seen so far.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Which, so it's interesting.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a horror movie background.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But it's very well written.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And the director was Ganja Montero.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And she has worked in the past on a bunch of shows like Wednesday, The Witcher, Brand New Cherry Flavor.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You can see especially things with like a darker fantasy bent.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And she's also directing episodes eight and nine of the season.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So she's also directing the last two episodes of the season.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's interesting.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Episode seven, the next one was directed by Jack Schaefer, the showrunner herself.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And this title is obviously from the second verse that we listened to it in full last week and talked about it a bit.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: The one, you know, so familiar by thy side comes between I hold death's hand in mind and spirit as my guide.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So what did you think of the, when you heard the title of the episode?

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, do you, what do you think of Billy?

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to say Billy, his status as a quote unquote familiar.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think he is?

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_06]: No.

[00:06:36] No.

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_02]: What is his status with the coven?

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_06]: That I'm not sure of yet.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_06]: But now, you know, after this episode, I questioned whether he was a member of the coven previously.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_06]: And now I think that he definitely is.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_06]: A member of the coven for reasons that we'll share in a few.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_02]: New revelations.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, definitely.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_06]: He's not the familiar.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_06]: He's not her familiar.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_06]: He's much more than that.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like she was in a way cutting him off and, you know, shrinking him down when she was talking about him to the other witches.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I think in a way to protect him.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So that first they didn't realize about the sigil and basically so they didn't realize that there might be something special about him and pay him undue attention.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Which is, you know, is there a thing in witch society that, you know, witches will try to steal each other's power as much as they can?

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Or is that an agatha thing?

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Good question.

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Good question.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to set up the first scene?

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, let's go.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Bar Mitzvah Boy.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_06]: In flashbacks to three years prior, William Kaplan, a teenager from Eastview, is celebrating his Bar Mitzvah when he encounters Lilia.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Reading on his palm something she does not disclose, Lilia casts the sigil on William to protect him, instantly forgetting his identity as well.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_06]: The party ends when the hex created by Wanda begins to fall.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_06]: While driving past Westview, William's parents have a car accident and he dies.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_06]: At the same time, Billy Maximoff's soul enters William's body, awakening him.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so when they said that, when he said in previous episodes that something happened to him at 13, I didn't think about the fact that it might be at a Bar Mitzvah.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But that was such a beautiful opening to the episode.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Just like-

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: It was.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: The way-

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Very wholesome.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Very wholesome.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very wholesome.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, yeah, the way it was filmed, it had like this soft lighting.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I noticed a lot of purple lighting.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot, yes.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_02]: There's also this thing that's going on with his jacket where it was navy blue and now it's slowly morphing to red.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was wondering if that was happening with the lighting too.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, he's got a really lovely voice.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it was really lovely.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I could have watched more of his Bar Mitzvah happily.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But the funny thing is, so I was cringing when he was doing the spoken Hebrew part.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, that pronunciation just sounds, it's so American pronunciation.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, wait, he's British.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So he's doing how an American would speak Hebrew.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_06]: A take on an American accent.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, respect for him for that.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Although sometimes people say they hear his accent peeking through.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I haven't really noticed that, have you?

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_06]: I haven't either.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I haven't.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I haven't picked that up.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's done quite well.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we find out that this was the boy's last day alive and his parents' last day with him.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Although we're going to talk about whether, yeah, what's going on.

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And so then we know when Lillia, she told him, enjoy the now, baby.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_02]: She meant like, dance like this is literally your last party ever.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_06]: And he did.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And he did.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_02]: He absolutely did.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And he told Alice something big happened to him at 13.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And Agatha, she brought up a crash in Eastview in episode one when she was still hexed and she was talking to a Rio.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And we also, there's a news headline in the credits about a crash.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So now it's all come to fruition.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_02]: We know what all that's about.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: What's interesting about it is that, so, okay, so we have, well, first of all, I guess we should remind people what is, what is the hex or as they call it here, the Westview anomaly for the people who haven't watched WandaVision.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah, it's Wanda.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Wanda.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's call it which, that's what it is.

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Taking over an entire town and bending it to her reality after the loss that she, the losses, I should say, that she incurred.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_06]: So Wanda had a break after the loss of Vision and her brother, and she created a perfect reality for herself, or so she thought.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_06]: And she cast a hex over a town called Westview.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_06]: And she was able to live her life as she thought she wanted it.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Full with joy from the 50s and the 60s and the 70s and the 80s with her family vision and their two adorable children.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Billy and Tommy, yeah.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_06]: But it was a lie.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Or so we think.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Or do we really think it's a lie?

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, but at the very least, she was torturing the other people in town.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll hear from one of them directly later.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But, yeah.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's also, so this, the events of this episode, the flashback to when he was 13, that coincides with the finale of WandaVision.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So recently before that, Eastview would have, there was this dramatic moment during that Halloween set episode in WandaVision where the hex expands suddenly and sucks a bunch more in.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So you can imagine that Eastview would be on edge.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh my God, what if it expands again toward us?

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's why there was like this sheer panic.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And then Billy's parents notice like, oh wait, no, it's retracting.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And that ends up killing, you know, killing their son.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Although they don't, they don't realize it.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's kind of like in a way, although she didn't maybe, she didn't mean it per se.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think her mind was concentrated in that way.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was like Wanda killed the body, the boy in the body so that her son could have it in a way.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Hmm.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it was her distraction that did it.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm not putting that on Wanda.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not saying she did it intentionally, but it is a causal link.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And we also, so as they're driving the Kaplins, they hear sound clips from WandaVision on the radio, like her and Vision talking.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So we know that the hex energy is radiating out as it dissipates, which also explains, I guess, how Billy's soul got carried over that way or something like that.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I thought it was well done.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_06]: I thought it was very well done.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_06]: And in keeping with the comics with how, you know, when originally Billy and Tommy's souls were, you know, absorbed, they went into other children.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_06]: When Wanda was forced to dissipate the spell, when the spell was broken that she created her children.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_06]: But because the chaos magic was so strong, she didn't.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's, it was really well done in keeping, I like how it aligned with the comics a lot.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_06]: I really did.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_06]: I thought that was something that was really cool.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know how they would do it, but to know that they did it in that way, to actually see it.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_06]: When he wakes up, you know, his eyes open and he's so confused.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_06]: And what's the first thing he says?

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Tommy.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Where's my brother?

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Not mommy.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Tommy.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you have to wonder.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So we last saw them.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Wanda and Vision tucked them into bed.

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I guess they were supposed to fall instantly asleep while they went downstairs and said their own goodbyes in the living room.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But what if, you know, as the world, the reality starts dissipating as Wanda lets it go?

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: What if they're awake and frightened together?

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they were tucked into bed and the assumption was, oh, they'll just fall right to sleep.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's not how things work.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: They were probably up whispering together.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And then reality started to fall apart.

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And you can imagine the last thing that he does is yell his brother's name.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But it seems like, so we know he doesn't remember William Kaplan memories, but it seems like he doesn't remember Billy memories either.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Other than just a vague knowing he woke up saying Tommy.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it had to have been something very traumatic.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-huh.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_06]: To be ripped out of one reality and then to be put back into one, into another.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_06]: So definitely that makes sense, the confusion on his part in the moments.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_06]: But I think as we see further along in the episode, he starts to realize, you know, he knows who he is.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so it's very clear that I think it was just in that moment when it first happened.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_06]: The haze was really, you know, covering his eyes and just trying to come out of it was where the confusion lay.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think there's any William Kaplan left in there?

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, there has to be a tiny bit.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I don't know how much, but I always suspect that there's always a tiny bit of the previous.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Person's, you know, something somewhere radiating within you.

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I guess, you know, if you think about it from a, you know, psychological, physiological perspective, um, a lot of who we are does come down to our, our DNA, our hormones, you know, things like that.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Our gut microbes, this decides a lot of, of, of factors in ourselves.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And these are all physical things that aren't this just as metaphysical memories or the mind or whatever that means.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So I have to think that they're both there.

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's also, I have reasons to think that he exerts an influence that we'll talk about when we get to the Easter egg section.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Also.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_06]: That's interesting.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But so I guess this means Tommy must be nearby too.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if he's nearby.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, close enough or at least started nearby three years ago.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think it's, I don't know if proximity is necessary here.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_06]: It could be, but I'm not sure that it is.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_06]: I just, I just feel like he knows his brother's out there somewhere because he can feel his brother.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Doesn't mean that the brother is like two houses away.

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe Northview or Southview.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Lakeview.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think we will meet him in this series or in Vision Quest or elsewhere?

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_06]: They have to introduce him at some point, definitely.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like that, right?

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_06]: He has to get introduced at some point.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if they're, I'm hoping it's at the end of this series because again, I like how they're not waiting to explain things.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_06]: They're not waiting to show things.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_06]: So I think that would be a waste of energy if at the end of the series we don't get Tommy.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_06]: For me, that would be a disappointment.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I feel like they are not just for you alone, for sure, because they've set it up so that that's like the payoff we want now.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm hoping the payoff isn't Wanda.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't get me wrong.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I wouldn't mind Wanda.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_06]: No.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_06]: But I want it to be Tommy.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don't think that it's going to be Wanda.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think they tried to make that clear again this episode, where he's like, I'm looking for Tommy.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Tommy.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But we got some familiar faces popping up in Billy's background.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So first of all, we have to talk about Lilia cast the sigil.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Why do you think she did it?

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I've been scratching my head at this one.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if she saw his future as in William dying and becoming Billy, but she definitely saw something that was going to harm him and wanted to protect him from that harm.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_06]: But then the sigil is specifically for Billy.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_06]: So did she know that in some future, however long that future may be, this kid is going to be protected?

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_06]: But if it's not William she's protecting, and if it's Billy that she's protecting, how did she know it was Billy and she was giving the sigil to William?

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_06]: So it just, I'm scratching my head over if she knew how much did she know.

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Or if it's for both, because she said she, she seems, she seemed to know, she said that there was the, what was it?

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: The split in the lifeline, which by the way, I have, I have one too.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, you have, yeah, they're live.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But it means like you might not go through a period of poor health, which I did.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And, and actually it fits on that moment in my lifeline, which is otherwise quite long.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're cool.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Wow.

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but yeah, no, she, she said she saw that split and then it's like, she seemed to realize more things in whatever we really, we need more definition about what, how her powers work.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But, um, I think she, she knew that there was going to be this merging of souls somehow.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think she wrote the sigil for them both collectively.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_06]: That, that could line up.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_06]: That could line up.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, cause I have to, I have to think about it some more because again, I'm just, yeah.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_06]: She wrote it.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I hear what you're saying that the both needed the protection, but the way the sigil is working, it wasn't that for William.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_06]: If that makes sense.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, no, but it was, because when he said the, the clip that, uh, we played,

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: it at the beginning, he says both versions of the name, both of them are protected by the sigil from Agatha's perspective.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_02]: He says, William Kaplan and Billy Maximoff.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And both of them are blocked out by the sigil.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'm curious.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So now that the sigil has been broken, um, I'm curious how Lilia would react now that she's free to remember, like how much she must from other, she must remember that incident.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It was three years ago.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It was three years ago and I'm sure she meets a lot of random people, but this seems like something that would be memorable if she wasn't magicked to forget.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you know, but then again, how many, I think you're right because how many sigils is she writing?

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_08]: A year.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_06]: How many bat mitzvahs is she going to?

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_06]: And at those, how functions.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably a lot of, probably a lot of bat mitzvahs.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_06]: But how many sigils, that's what I'm saying.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_06]: I guess she wouldn't remember.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_02]: She wouldn't remember if she did.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a good point.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_06]: That's a good point.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh man.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_06]: She's writing sigils all over the place.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_06]: This is terrible.

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, Billy wouldn't recognize her because it was William Kaplan who met her, not Billy Maximoff.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But she, so when she's reading his poem, her only outburst of the episode is she says the tower reversed, which is a tarot card.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And we were talking about how they have those, those tarot cards, like the Agatha All Along branded tarot cards for sale.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And there people figured out that the tower card must have to do with, with Billy.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And now, but now I said all this stuff about what the tower card means, which is sudden change, upheaval, chaos, revelation, awakening.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But she says the tower card reversed.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So when a tarot card is reversed, it means it's been played upside down and it often inverts the meaning of that.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So in this case, it means personal transformation, resisting change, fear of change, averting disaster, delaying the inevitable.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess is the inevitable that he has to die?

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That Billy Maximoff has to die?

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been thinking about this, how everyone in the coven in this show, except for two people, all of them have somehow cheated death because like the rest of them have been alive for centuries.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Jen, Lily, Agatha, they've all been alive for centuries.

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And Billy, obviously he cheated death in this way.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: The only two who have had normal lifespans were Sharon and Alice, the two that died.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_06]: How ironic is that?

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, we're not saying that they died, though.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, okay.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, they died on the road at least.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Died on the road at least.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's just, you know, let's keep hope alive here.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We did see the bodies in those cases, so.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: On the road, though.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a road thing.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a road thing.

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't like your tone that you're taking right now with Sharon.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_06]: That's all I'm saying.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_06]: That is all I'm saying.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I want her back.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I want her back.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: See you at the end.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_06]: That's much better.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_06]: But to the question of if Billy has to die, I can't see it.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he will, but I think there might be this question of, did he steal this life?

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Is he violating the rules of life and death or something like that?

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Why would he have stolen the life if William died?

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_06]: William died.

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_06]: But he did cheat in a way.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_06]: In that car accident.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_06]: William died as the hex was coming down.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_06]: And Billy's soul went into what we would say is an empty vessel.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like a squatter, basically.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:25:28] Yeah.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, I don't think that's cheating death.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think that's cheating death.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_06]: He didn't make, unless we find out he made a deal with someone to inhabit this body.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Right?

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't think the child did that.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think Wanda had time to do that then either.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm saying.

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was maybe just like her will going out there, like, let my children live.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Live, right.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's what forced what happened to happen.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_06]: But he didn't, the soul of Billy and hopefully Tommy did not, well, we don't know about Tommy,

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_06]: but the soul of Billy, as that's what we're calling him, did not go into William and say,

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_06]: get out.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, no, no.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like we can blame him, but that doesn't mean that he hasn't somehow kind of

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_02]: broken the rules, if you know what I mean.

[00:26:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Which rules?

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_06]: The rules.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Because his whole existence is a broken rule.

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Right?

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So I want to bring up an Easter egg that's been brought up online this week that I was

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: going to save until the end.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: There is a song on the radio in episode two that it's been pointed out.

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is at the point where Agatha's trying to hear what Billy says, and she can't.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And then she turns on the radio a little bit just to check that it's not like her hearing

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: or something.

[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And she hears a song just fine, and we hear a clip of this song.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And somebody online noticed.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It's from this singer-songwriter called Kinney.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Her full name's Megan Kinney.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_02]: She goes by Kinney.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And the song's called There's a Road.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Ha, ha, ha.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And we only hear the shortest clip, but apparently this was a song commissioned by Marvel for this

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: show.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_06]: So there's...

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a meaning.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a meaning here.

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to put the link in the show notes for anyone who wants to listen to the

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_02]: full song, but here's just a clip from the end.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_12]: Like a ghost, you'll descend.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So the lyrics to this song are, there's a road in some old town I remember but haven't found.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I can hear the distant sounds of that old river where I lay down, which is like the

[00:28:19] [SPEAKER_02]: body at the river.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: In the creek.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Cross my heart and count to ten, drawing circles round the past that never ends, lines of wreckage

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: on my face from the memories that never fade away.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: If I could breathe a deeper sigh, I'd tell the stories of how I cried.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a child that's on their knees and begs forgiveness from those she's seen.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Like a ghost, you disappear.

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Keep me questioning what part of it was real.

[00:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: A silent echo through my veins from the memories that never fade away.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So my question is, could this be like a song that Wanda put out in the universe for her kids?

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a stretch, but.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder, like, so we already talked about, I don't, I 100% don't expect Wanda to come

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: back in this show.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_02]: This is Tommy Quest that we're doing right now.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But I do expect her to come back in the future.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I wonder what if this show, even though I don't even want her to show up in this show

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_02]: as much as I love her.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_02]: What if this show, though, gives a backdoor to fixing the Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_02]: problem in terms of, you know, not establishing why her character snapped?

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that's very likely.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_06]: That's very likely that we'll end this season with some sort of revelation about Wanda.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_06]: I expect that.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I'm not expecting her, but I do expect that.

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I think she'll be back by the two big Avengers movies that are coming up.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I think she'll-

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I think she'll, at some point, you know, she's so popular, they would be really stupid not

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_02]: to give her her own movie, hopefully with Jack Schafer behind the wheel.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but do we want, in the Avengers movies, do we want, for anyone who doesn't know, Wanda

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and Doom have a story in the comics that actually comes right after the Wiccan realizing he's

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: actually Billy Maximoff storyline.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So this storyline that we're seeing with Billy leads into another comic storyline between

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Wanda and Doom.

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Do we want to see that play out?

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_02]: But also keeping in mind that Robert Downey Jr. is currently doomed.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_06]: No.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Expand on that.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to be very nice here.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_06]: I am not a fan of the Russos and Downey Jr.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_06]: At this particular moment in time.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm with you, actually, so-

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_06]: The, what we know of what they're planning, and things can change, and it could be awesome,

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_06]: it could be great, but what we know of what they're planning is absolutely mind-boggling

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_06]: and infuriating.

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_06]: That I had to read that for them, apparently, Reed Richards and Victor Von Doom are more like

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Thanos and Iron Man.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_06]: And I had to be dedicated to the story that I've read.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_06]: You don't have to be dedicated to the themes that are in the comics.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Some things are just some things.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_06]: With great power comes great responsibility.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_06]: That's Spider-Man.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Right?

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_06]: That's Spider-Man.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Mutants, allegories for racism, sexism, homophobia.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_06]: That's, that's what that is.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Reed Richards versus Dr. Doom is foundational to Marvel Comics.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_06]: And to have the thought idea expressed that that won't be foundational to the future movies,

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_06]: I am skeptical of this Doom, which is why I don't want to see a Doom Scarlet Witch story,

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_06]: because to me, what are we even doing if Doom is like Thanos?

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Because Doom isn't like Thanos.

[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the whole point of Doom.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, what if they're saying this?

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm playing devil's advocate here just because I am, you know, I'm not a fan of them

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_02]: bringing back these three to do the movies again.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, come on, guys, we're moving forward.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, anyway.

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, and yeah, we don't need to pay this much money to revisit old party tricks, especially

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm especially just very skeptical about the Robert Downey Jr.'s Doom casting for a number

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_02]: of reasons.

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_02]: One of them being this Scarlet Witch storyline, because I don't just don't feel comfortable

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: with him in that dominating role that's part of their storyline over her.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't want to see that.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But I forgot.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I was doing devil's advocate.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02]: What was I?

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But what if, for the Fantastic Four, what if their idea is that they want to show that

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_02]: relationship being established on screen between Doom and Reed Vittress?

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, I mean, it would make sense because in Multiverse of Madness, she kills a version of Reed Richards.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_06]: So it would make sense for the Doom with that universe to seek her out.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: True.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: He knows she's powerful.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_06]: To seek her out.

[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Not only one, because she's powerful, but two, because she took out the person that he views as

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_06]: closest to his equal as possible.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_06]: He doesn't view Reed as his equal, but he sure, you know, in the doomest of doomest ways,

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_06]: he respects Reed Richards.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, thinks he's misguided, but he respects him.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_06]: So I can see him seeking out the person who killed him, like saying, how dare you do that?

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, if anybody was going to kill Reed, it would be me and I haven't killed him because I don't

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_06]: want to kill him.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_06]: That's doom.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so it could, it could make sense.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Like they have the story there.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I get it.

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_06]: I just don't want it.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll see.

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see what becomes of this.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Swerving back to Lilia.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so the sigil thing, I did know that these promo tarot cards had the sigil on every card

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and I should have made the connection that like, duh, who's the tarot card person?

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_02]: That's Lilia.

[00:35:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:35:27] Right.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I just want to point out that, uh, so William, uh, Kaplan before the accident, he

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: says to Lilia vibe in here is very early Argento and he's referring to the Italian director,

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Dario Argento, who directed amongst other things that movie Suspiria that we were saying in

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_02]: episode four was one of the big foundational things for that movie.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_02]: So I am noticing that there are, there are aspects of William's personality in Billy.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm wondering if it is emerging.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_06]: What do you see?

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, for instance, that that, that was a William thing.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, well, okay.

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, when we talk about the Easter eggs, I just, there's, there are Easter eggs from both

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: of their lives all over the witch's road that we've seen.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And yes, that's means I am leaning harder into the, it was Billy all along theory.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So he also saw, uh, he had, yeah.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Encounters.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things like the puts him in a central place in the stories.

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_02]: He had encounters with everyone.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So we had that, that encounter with Lilia.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Alice was the cop at the scene of his accident.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm, I guess she forgot him probably because of the sigil and for him, like, I would be surprised

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_02]: if he remembered a single face he saw that day.

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He was so disoriented.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Does the sigil make you forget that you've met someone or just make you unable to know

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_06]: who they are?

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: The sigil made Lilia forget that she had met him.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_02]: She puts it in the pocket and then she, and she's holding a coat and she's like, oh, I

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: don't remember.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this was a coat for someone.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So she, as soon as she made the sigil and dropped it in his pocket.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_06]: But I took it as this was a coat for someone that she couldn't name.

[00:37:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Not for someone she didn't know.

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think she just, uh, my interpretation was as soon as she.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Someone she didn't know.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Someone, as soon as she like activated the sigil.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_02]: She didn't know him.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Like she forgot the entire interaction that they just had.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That was how I interpreted it.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But he definitely, he does remember Jennifer because he, um, is following her three years

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_02]: later once he's already, uh, Billy and he's like looking at her YouTube videos basically.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, do you think he had any idea she was a witch before he showed up at her door with

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Agatha?

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[00:37:53] [SPEAKER_06]: I, I want to say yes.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_06]: I want to say that he, you know, put the band together.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like it.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I want to say.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I want to say he put the band together.

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wonder.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Did he, how would he know that Alice was a witch though?

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he, he, maybe some part of him.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_02]: He, he seems surprised when he found out that she was the daughter of Lauren and Woo,

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: but maybe some part of him.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_06]: I, I think his, his chaos magic, you know, that he inherited from his, from the dark hole

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_06]: from his mom has to, it's not like a tuning fork.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Like he just, you know, Oh, here's a witch.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a witch.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_06]: I see all the witches, but I would think that he would know.

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I think he knows.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_06]: I think he knew what he was doing.

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_02]: There's like a sense, like a witch star.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_06]: And he was leading Agatha along this path to collect these pieces to put on his chessboard.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.

[00:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe, yeah.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_02]: He somehow fed that information to Lilia when she wrote the list.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe.

[00:39:12] Hmm.

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, interesting that the whole hex anomaly thing is covered up in the news as an Avengers

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02]: training episode.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Exercise.

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, yeah, how very area 51 of them.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Very believable.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Our government would do that.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's get into Billy's new life as Billy in William's body right after a quick break.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_06]: And we're back.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_06]: So this is terrible teens.

[00:39:49] [SPEAKER_06]: William has trouble adjusting after the accident due to his newfound ability to read minds and

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_06]: his lack of memory of his life before.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Three years later, William and his boyfriend, Eddie, not Teddy, meet with Ralph Bonner.

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_06]: I have questions.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Who used to be controlled by Agatha inside Wanda's hex.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_06]: He tells them about what happened there and about Wanda's twins, Billy and Tommy, making

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Billy realize who he is.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So we find out that Billy pretended that the amnesia went away, but like, it's so sad.

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like he must be, I can see them like telling stories about his childhood and he's like,

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02]: oh yeah, right.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That time at the beach.

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And part of them knows also, I'm sure.

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_06]: That he's faking.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just not the same.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_06]: And there has to be like, um, uh, uh, worst possible outcome, worst possible nightmare that

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_06]: you can have as a parent.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:40:50] [SPEAKER_06]: And, and they played it so well, you know, it's not, it's not exactly grief and it's

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_06]: not exactly worry.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_06]: It's a mixture of all those things, you know?

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, a lack of understanding and especially at that age 13, which is already the age of

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_06]: lack of understanding between, between parents and children.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so, and then get this thrown on top of it where they think it's amnesia, but it's,

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_06]: um, yeah, yeah.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_06]: True, truly, truly sorrowful.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm, I'm, I was just thinking about it now.

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: It just occurred to me, I'm into Celtic folklore and this is really a changeling story quite

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_02]: literally, um, where, you know, one child is, is replaced by the other.

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But then if the parent doesn't often changing stories are a way in like in real life people,

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_02]: who said that they were visited by changeling just were having probably postpartum depression.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: But in, from the story perspective, if a parent wants to keep their child, um, then you might,

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_02]: you, you'll make a lot of excuses for changes in behavior just to be like, no, everything's

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_02]: okay.

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Everything's okay.

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_06]: God, but this one is like really, you know, can't knock the excuse.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I'm saying?

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_06]: Like he's changed, but there's a very, very real reason that they're witnessing this change in him.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, they've gone through it together.

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_06]: It's just, um, yeah, just really sad to see how they're trying to hold it together.

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_06]: But just knowing that we know that they don't know that it's not their kid.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's just like, ah.

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's also at first, especially he's like thrown off because he's hearing all their voices

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and he doesn't seem to realize they're not talking out loud.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, it seems like they are anxious people.

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the kind who just don't say what's bothering them.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Because like, if we act all nicey, nice.

[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Dink it instead.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_02]: But they don't realize that that tension is still felt by kids.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Even, you know, if you're not a telepath, you can tell there's a tension there through

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_02]: the smiles.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And, but he can literally hear inside their heads.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So he's hearing.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand what's happening right now.

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_10]: What?

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_10]: What is it, honey?

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_11]: I don't understand the stress.

[00:43:13] [SPEAKER_11]: I really feel like we're stressing in my heart.

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_07]: What are we supposed to do?

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_07]: What do we think is this?

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_07]: I just want to be mad.

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_11]: Please just, please just, please stop.

[00:43:21] [SPEAKER_11]: Please stop.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_11]: Please just, just stop.

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_11]: Stop what, buddy?

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe seeing his room will jog something for him.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_11]: What if you never remember?

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_11]: What if you just stayed like this?

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never been friends over at a favorite restaurant.

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Lost in a just alone.

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It has to be something.

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_03]: What if you have money?

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Give me my son back.

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: She knows it's something wrong.

[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And, and he responds to the fact that she thought maybe if he sees his room.

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So she knows, she probably knows there's something witchy about him.

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Also just like.

[00:43:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You think so?

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think she, she knows from there that there he's somehow reading their minds

[00:44:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and obviously like he's got the whole aesthetic, but I think she knows that there's something

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_02]: deeper for that than that.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Although it seems like they love him, you know, as much as ever.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: They, it seems quite like a warm relationship, even though, yeah, very tragic story for them.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And the dog barks at him at first too.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So the dog.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_06]: The dogs, the dogs always know.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_06]: The pets always know.

[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not who you think it is.

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Always know.

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, the, uh, the dad talks about cooking.

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is how Billy knew what a sous vide was in episode three.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So we have that backed up.

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And his mom, Rebecca, she says at one point, want to watch a movie?

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Psychological horror.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Freaky, but grounded.

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, Oh, is that what this is?

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_02]: They're sort of telling us this is what we're going for with Agatha.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Freaky, but grounded.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:44:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So you've alluded to this, but we have to have this discussion.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Is Eddie played by Miles Gutierrez, Riley, Hulkling, AKA theater Altman.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_06]: If he is, why are they calling him Eddie?

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It's close to Teddy, but yeah.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_06]: But it's not Teddy.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Why are they calling him Eddie and not Teddy?

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_06]: So I am of the belief that that is not Hulkling.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_06]: For those of you who are wondering who Hulkling is, um, that is Teddy Theodore Altman, who is,

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_06]: uh, half Cree, half Skrull.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And these are two races that do not like each other.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and the husband of Billy.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, he eventually becomes the, the emperor of the, the pre-Skrull.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but yeah, they're one of the most prominent, you know, queer LGBTQIA relationships in Marvel

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_06]: comics and one of the most fleshed out in all comics.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so it's really, I was really disappointed that he said Eddie and not Teddy.

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, because I, I still.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So like he, he doesn't look, he doesn't know that he's Cree Skrull at first.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_02]: He just thinks he's a normal kid with a single mom.

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_06]: So maybe there is some hope there.

[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, but again, I, if he is, you know, the future husband to be of Billy, then why not just say so?

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I, my answer.

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_02]: My answer would be just to like mess with us, you know?

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't mess with me.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But then my question is like, why give him a name that's so close?

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Eddie, Teddy.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Why?

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_06]: And if you just messing with me, that makes me very angry.

[00:46:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't, don't mess with me.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Just give me the things that I want.

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Just give me the things that I want.

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_06]: And you know, Billy, it's Billy and Teddy.

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not Billy and Eddie.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_06]: There's no Eddie.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_06]: It's Billy and Teddy.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe he'll start growing by Teddy once he realizes his full name, his, you know, real identity.

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_02]: He's probably like just a pre-boyfriend, but he's so nice.

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel bad that.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you know, as soon as Teddy comes through the door, he could kick rocks.

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm Billy Teddy.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I'm looking for.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_06]: That's it.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_06]: He could be a very nice guy.

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:47:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not saying that he's not.

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Eddie seems very nice.

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_06]: He seems like a very wholesome young man.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Very well-mannered.

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_06]: And funny.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_02]: And fun.

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And willing to like go on a like crazy adventure with his boyfriend.

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Which is what Teddy would do.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a dumb adventure.

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Which is exactly what Teddy would have done.

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_06]: So, again, give me Teddy.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I have to give Marvel, though, credit for they allow the same sex kiss.

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_06]: On Disney, no less.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's other Disney shows, but I think have we seen more than just a peck on the lips?

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_02]: In like Marvel and MCU?

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think so.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So, this is not queer baiting this time.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So, they might be Eddie Teddy baiting us, but.

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Oakling baiting.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_02]: But no, yeah, there was, I saw that there was an intimacy coordinator for episode six and episode eight.

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, interesting.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And also, but in terms of intimacy, like the coolest thing is just seeing that Billy is still a good egg.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Because, at least with the people he cares about, because he tells Eddie his whole story.

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, okay, if we're going to get into this love thing I hear you saying in your head, then you need to know the full deal you're signing on with.

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_06]: What, did he tell him the full deal?

[00:48:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he told the whole thing about like being a soul in another body and everything.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but did he tell him the full deal?

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the full deal?

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I'm a soul in another body.

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_06]: That's not saying I'm Wanda Maximoff, his son.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I think he did say that, didn't he?

[00:49:00] [SPEAKER_06]: He did say that?

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think he said that.

[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_06]: I have to rewatch the episode.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, I think he said that.

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_06]: I believe it.

[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_06]: I believe it.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, Eddie gets all the credit for going to see.

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I love what he says too, when he tells him like, oh, I met this guy on Reddit.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_02]: We get this.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_11]: I'm supposed to meet him tomorrow.

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm adorably trusting.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's a number one stupid rule to go meet some guy on Reddit, but I have to give, I have to give Ralph Boner credit.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_02]: He really gave off that.

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he rocked that.

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Just found this guy on Reddit energy.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he did.

[00:49:48] [SPEAKER_06]: He did.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_06]: It was really good in it.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_06]: He was really good in that role.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Did you expect this cameo?

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_06]: I did not.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_06]: I did not.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_02]: No?

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_06]: I did not.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know who they were meeting.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_06]: I had no idea it would be Ralph.

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I did not see that coming at all.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm always happy to see Evan Peters.

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I did wonder, like, because it would be, it was a question mark that people had after WandaVision that they could continue here.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And I love the intro that they gave him.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_02]: He says.

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Are you craft crazy 17?

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_10]: You must be bonerific 69.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_10]: You can just call me Ralph.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_10]: Randall, call me Randall.

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So he's set up like a deep throat reference from like all the Watergate movies.

[00:50:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I thought, what's this movie with, I think it was the Gene Hackman, Will Smith movie.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, gosh.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Enemy of the State.

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I thought of when I saw him.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_06]: And then as I'm watching and I'm like, yeah, this is like some real cloak and dagger shit.

[00:51:06] [SPEAKER_06]: But this guy's nuts.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_06]: He's out of control.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_06]: But he has a reason to do this.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_06]: You know?

[00:51:11] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a reason behind his madness.

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a reason behind this entire thing that he's, you know, doing.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_06]: So it makes sense for someone to have gone through what he went through in WandaVision.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_06]: To turn out this way.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Totally on brand.

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't doubt that for a minute.

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_06]: You know?

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_02]: He paints a really grim picture.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He says.

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember everything.

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Wanda had the whole town acting out this weird, sad sitcom plot.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_11]: Wanda Maximoff.

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_11]: You want to hear this or not, Bob?

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_10]: You couldn't move, talk, or do anything.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_10]: Anything on your own.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_10]: It was like watching yourself on TV inside your own head.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_10]: But you couldn't turn it off.

[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_10]: It was not a good time.

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_11]: Do you feel like it changed you?

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_11]: Can you, like, do stuff now?

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_10]: You mean, like, wake up every hour in the middle of the night screaming?

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_11]: No.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_11]: Like, stuff you couldn't do before.

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_10]: What are you talking about?

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_11]: Never mind.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_11]: Anything else of note?

[00:52:36] Nope.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_10]: Please don't ask about Agatha Harkness.

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_10]: Please don't ask about Agatha Harkness.

[00:52:40] Please don't ask about Agatha Harkness.

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_11]: What do you know about Agatha Harkness?

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, come on, man!

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_11]: Who is Agatha Harkness?

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_11]: She's an ancient freaking witch who will eff your shit up, all right?

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess that kind of puts to rest the alternate reality Quicksilver theory that people had about him.

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Because for anyone who doesn't know, he played Quicksilver in the Foxmen movies, the Fox X-Men movies.

[00:53:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So then when he showed up playing Pietro, not Pietro, but fake Pietro, Pietro, then people are like...

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And they also said that he was in the Witness Protection Program.

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So people are like, could he be from another universe?

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But it seems like he did not keep his speedster powers.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: That was just Agatha.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Just horrible.

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_06]: And the thing that I was thinking was, how does that make Billy feel?

[00:53:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Because that is his mom he's talking about.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_06]: You know?

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's also why he's more forgiving toward...

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_02]: He gives Agatha a lot of chances, even though...

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot.

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_02]: This guy's telling him...

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, this guy's like...

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And he says, okay, my deal was way worse than most people.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I was Agatha's quote-unquote husband puppet.

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_02]: She made me hold a nice lady captive, referring to Maria Rambeau.

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_02]: She took my house.

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_02]: She hijacked my life.

[00:54:00] [SPEAKER_02]: She kept my Bowflex.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_02]: She made me be a terrible influence on Wanda and Vision's kids, the little speedster and his mind-reading brother.

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's when Dilly goes, ding!

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's me and Tommy.

[00:54:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And she made him poison the dog.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Sparky's death is on his hands.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_06]: So, yeah.

[00:54:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel for him.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_06]: And then to replace...

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Because to me, he's replacing his mom with Agatha, right?

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_06]: And having to come to terms when Alice is killed, like, with all the worst things that he knows, because he's learned all the worst things.

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_06]: First hand, he's had those relate to him.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Just, you know, has to be crushing.

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I noticed he has all these protection things, but he has specifically, like, hoodoo and voodoo protection symbols.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he's got chicken bones sewn in a cross shape on his hat.

[00:55:06] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a chicken foot.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got this bundle that kind of looks like a baby gator head.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I should probably...

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that like a caiman or something?

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, with sticks and feathers and stuff.

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And so it makes me question, could he have had...

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Because we know Jennifer has a hoodoo background.

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Could they have somehow come into contact or come into some...

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope not.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_02]: ...contact with someone in her circle?

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope not.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_06]: I hope it's Jericho Drum.

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I'm hoping.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_06]: I hope it's Jericho Drum.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_06]: That's what I'm hoping.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Talk the voodoo.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's go.

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's just get crazy.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's just get crazy and give me everything that I want.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_06]: How about that?

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Drop five more witches in this show right now.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, he tells Billy that Agatha is still in Westview in his old house under a spell.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And Billy, yeah, he's already getting these warnings.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_02]: He clearly doesn't want to believe it.

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he asks Billy whether he wants to pay in cash or half off tickets to his one-man show on Paramus because he needs to...

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I would not be going to that one-man show.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I would be there.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I would go.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Let Evan Peters do anything, even as Ralph Boner.

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not going to that one-man show.

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_06]: No way, Jose.

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_06]: No way.

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's about his experience in the Hex and it's full of Easter eggs.

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_02]: It's full of revelations.

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_06]: I'll read the review.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be the one writing the review.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Let you read it.

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_06]: So from another perspective, determined to use the witch's road to find Tommy, Billy goes to Agatha and breaks one to spell after doing a whole bunch of online research.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course, Billy's listening to Lorna Wu as he's researching Agatha on record, on record, of course.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of Easter eggs in his room that we mind in our character clue section.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But the too-long-didn't-read is that he gets suggestions that the witch's road is real and can help him find what's missing, which to him is his brother.

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And Agatha is rumored to have walked that road before.

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So he goes to her house.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_02]: He decides he's going to break her out of her spell.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_02]: He needs a personal item for the release spell.

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And he finds that brooch.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And, yeah, it was fun to rewatch episode one and compare it with what's going on here.

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's hilarious.

[00:57:33] [SPEAKER_06]: That's hilarious.

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_02]: He was so polite.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Would you be that polite?

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely not.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely not.

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't even matter because she sees him in her vision.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_02]: He's being rude anyway.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:57:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't matter that he's being polite.

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's so terrible that she's been living like this for three years.

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_06]: In this, you know, totally made-up world that only she can see.

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's so, you know, it's kind of heartbreaking that three years of her life have gone by

[00:58:10] [SPEAKER_06]: and none of it was real.

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Everything was fake.

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_06]: And everybody around her knew it was all fake.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_06]: But there was nothing anyone could do about it.

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But it is kind of heartwarming that they kept checking in on her.

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_02]: They were humoring her, you know?

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:58:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It is funny to rewatch the first episode and then imagine what's really happening with her

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_02]: neighbors.

[00:58:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I would love if they showed more perspectives of that.

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_02]: What they were putting up with.

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_06]: But she's a terrible person.

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_02]: She's a terrible person.

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_06]: So when I say it's heartbreaking, I'm talking about just for a non-terrible person.

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_06]: She's a terrible person.

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it still can be heartbreaking because often terrible people have dealt with terrible

[00:58:58] [SPEAKER_02]: things.

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_06]: And then she did deal with some terrible things early on in life.

[00:59:02] [SPEAKER_06]: That is true.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_06]: That is true.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_02]: But she's also, so speaking of terrible person, she took over Ralph's house.

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So she's wearing his boner family reunion.

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Family reunion.

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It says pitch a tent.

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:59:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Because boner jokes.

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_06]: And these are things that I didn't notice before, you know?

[00:59:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, she keeps, during this interrogation with Billie, she keeps looking at the painting

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_02]: because in her hex version, that was a two-way mirror in her hallucination.

[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And Rio was standing on the other side.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess Rio is not there, at least for this part.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But it does.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_06]: Is she there at all?

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_02]: That's the question that I have.

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But I did notice at one point when I looked at the painting myself, there's like these

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_02]: two swirls of clouds, I realize it is, but it almost looks like eyes to me.

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I don't know.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So she tapes up Billie and shoves him in the closet.

[01:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And he drops the locket on the floor in the way while she's, and that's where she finds

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_02]: the locket when she gets out of the hex.

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But when we see what happens after that, they cut out all the parts where we know whether

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_02]: or not Billie saw Rio.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_06]: They don't show any of that.

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So we don't know whether-

[01:00:20] [SPEAKER_06]: If Rio's real.

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess she must be real on the road because they were interacting with her there, everyone.

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But-

[01:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Must she be real on the road?

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Because everyone was interacting with her.

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Chaos magic is really strong.

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But we do have now a black heart discrepancy because fun supportive Boif, he sends Billy a

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_02]: text and says, you're my, and then a black heart emoji.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's, of course, when Lilia was writing up the list of names, she just wrote a black

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_02]: heart.

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And that would make sense because of the sigil.

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why she wouldn't be able to write that name down.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Write his name down, exactly.

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But on the other hand, he's not a green witch and they need a green witch.

[01:01:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And they even said earth powers are arguably the most important on the road.

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm undecided on that one now.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think?

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_06]: To me, I'm thinking he's the final member of the coven.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_02]: He's definitely more of a coven than Rio was.

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Because he didn't suffer the same kind of curse with Alice's trial, for instance.

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: But he's been more...

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:01:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Rio is just kind of like a ringer who floats around in the background doing what she feels

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: like.

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm conflicted about Rio.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_06]: So I hope we get some resolution to that.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm conflicted about her, whether she's real or not.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they're definitely...

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: They seem to have staged this episode to plant doubts in our minds.

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_06]: So then we continue.

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_06]: The road forward.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_06]: In the present, Agatha escapes the mud and confronts Billy.

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Realizing that the sigil has been destroyed, she deduces what his goal is and tells him that

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_06]: they must continue together since Billy could not control his power.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So we see Billy crush the sigil, the tile that Lily eroded on in his hand.

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And oh, yeah.

[01:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So in his room, one of the Easter eggs on the...

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: He has these notes on the wall.

[01:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And one is about sigils that can be broken.

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So he knew about those.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And he was playing dumb with Agatha before.

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But then there was also another one on the wall that was permanent sigils.

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wonder if he was worried that it was a permanent one.

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then at this moment, he's like, oh, God, it can be broken.

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank God.

[01:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Agatha conveniently has a route to pull herself out.

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to pretend I think the other two are dead because I do not.

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody, no death.

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm promo materials.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: But she mocks Billy.

[01:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, power doesn't interest me.

[01:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll see.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And she tells him she had a feeling when they first met.

[01:03:08] [SPEAKER_11]: She says, when did you figure it out?

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_04]: I had a feeling when we first met.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Even with a sigil in the way, you and your mother have the same tell.

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_04]: Which is very inconvenient for you.

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think the tell is?

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_06]: Hands?

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, once she saw him do the magic.

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, she saw him.

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, but she didn't see him.

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_06]: No, but she saw him.

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: When they first met.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:03:38] [SPEAKER_02]: She acted so motherly toward him.

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I noticed even in episode one when he was hit by the car, she was really like, are you okay?

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And then when she realized he was okay, then she went back to being, you know, tough cop.

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:03:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You can't tell with it.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, in some ways you can tell when Agatha's faking because she amps it up.

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like when she's being extra, that's when she's putting up her mask.

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_06]: But isn't the mask always on with her though?

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We've been in this show getting glimpses behind it.

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I think the mask is up in this episode.

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, definitely.

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think there were some people complaining about overacting at times.

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, anytime you think she's overacting, that is exactly what Agatha is doing.

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Agatha is, you know, she's like, oh, well, I'm going to be this person that everyone thinks that I am.

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And then in between, there are some moments where we see like she's longing for Rio.

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: She has a protective feeling toward Billy, you know.

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't feel any of that in this episode though.

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_06]: That's why I'm saying when she said that, you know, he has a tell just like his mother.

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Like, does she really believe that?

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Is she really saying that?

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Or is she saying that to plant some sort of doubt into his mind?

[01:04:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe.

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know if she's genuine on that.

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But I do think it did feel genuine when for a moment she said it was nice to see him again.

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: That felt genuine.

[01:05:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, she does actually, she plays nice mommy with him in a really messed up way.

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: She says,

[01:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think was that?

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_06]: No, that wasn't for Billy.

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_06]: That was for herself.

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You think?

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You are way more skeptical of her than I am.

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I am.

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I think.

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I am.

[01:05:55] [SPEAKER_06]: That was not for Billy.

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_06]: That was for herself.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_06]: That was her giving herself a pep talk.

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it can be both.

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Because of Billy, because of the way that Billy is looking at her.

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_06]: The way that he, because of what happened in the last episode.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_02]: He says he doesn't trust her anymore.

[01:06:11] [SPEAKER_06]: She's talking to herself here to remind herself, you know, don't doubt yourself.

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't fall for, into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself.

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Don't apologize for doing what you, what you know, what you have to do.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_06]: That wasn't for Billy.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_06]: To me, that wasn't for Billy.

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think Billy's putting on some bravado himself, too.

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: He says he doesn't need Agatha anymore, but he can't turn his magic back on.

[01:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm wondering if, this is a Wheel of Time reference, but there's a character called

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Nynaeve who she can't channel until she gets angry for a lot of the time.

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I'm getting, it's the same vibes with him.

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_02]: He needs a strong emotion to break through that.

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Hopefully we get past this in the next episode.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_06]: So.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't need to linger on that.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_06]: We don't need that.

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_06]: We don't need that.

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I want, what is it, like seven fully powered witches at the end?

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, how many do we have?

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: We have Agatha, Billy, Lilia, Jennifer, Alice, Rio, and Sharon, of course.

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, seven.

[01:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And Sharon.

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, seven.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I want Sharon spitting magic at the end, or at least a spark, you know?

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she makes a plant grow.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, Billy says he'll keep traveling with Agatha, says he won't trust her.

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he says, I'm not that nice.

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that this is like his guilt speaking or more?

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't, I don't think he even believes that.

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't, I don't think he's, I think he's trying to.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I felt like it was guilt.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_06]: As you said, the bravado.

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[01:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But he muttered that under his breath where she couldn't hear it.

[01:07:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Like for, no, psyching himself up.

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Not for her, but for himself.

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Like this conversation that they're having, they're having it with each other, but it's

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_06]: about themselves.

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Right?

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_06]: That's how I took it.

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_06]: So he's looking at her and he's like, yo, I have to let you know, and I have to be strong.

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Right?

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_06]: You're not going to take advantage of me.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_06]: You're not going to do to me what you did to Alice.

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_02]: That happened.

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Because Alice was being too nice by helping her.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_06]: So that ship has sailed.

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Right?

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_06]: So that's what I think that is.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: That's fair.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and, and as I mentioned, Billy's hoodie starting to look redder and redder by the episode.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's definitely saying something.

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, of course he's-

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_06]: Motherlike son.

[01:08:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And drifting toward his comic costume.

[01:08:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But still, no Wanda because-

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_03]: What does Billy Maximoff want at the end of the road?

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Big magic is already in the bag.

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Is it-

[01:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Find Mama?

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_03]: No.

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_04]: She chose a town full of strangers over her own flesh and wires.

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_04]: What about Robo Papa?

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_04]: Lord knows where he is or in how many pieces.

[01:09:19] [SPEAKER_04]: So who is left?

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_04]: She's being mean.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh!

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_04]: Right!

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_04]: There's two of you!

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_04]: You're after Toby!

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_11]: Tommy.

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_04]: That's what I said.

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like she did always talk to Wiccan more in- to Billy more in WandaVision.

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: But probably because Billy-

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I think so.

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Billy's the witchy one.

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, any more recap thoughts you wanted to throw out?

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I think, um, we touched on everything that I wanted to say.

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_06]: I just really, um, yeah, this is just an enjoyable watch.

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_06]: So, I'm really just looking forward to next week's episode, um, to get a little bit more

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_06]: backstory and hopefully, um, release, um, Billy's magic a little bit more.

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Release the magic?

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_02]: No, yeah.

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I want the witches powering up ASAP.

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's get into our Easter eggs and character clues right after this.

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[01:11:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So nothing further to say about Jen and Alice.

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Alice's body still was...

[01:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So they buried Sharon.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Alice was left behind in the trial.

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if any of that means anything for their inevitable resurrection.

[01:11:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But just saying.

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So Lilia, of course, her big reveal was that she's the one who did the sigil.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And we only had that one tarot card outburst about the Tower Reverse this time.

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, she was quite serious this episode, which is appropriate.

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, definitely.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Although I noticed something re-watching the first two episodes when she says...

[01:12:18] [SPEAKER_02]: When Billy...

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And they show up at Agatha's house and he offers these expired granola bits.

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And she says, I don't mind a lapsed expiration date.

[01:12:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And so I was thinking...

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: She's referring to the granola and to herself.

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I do feel like them all...

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That's why there's so many old witches here.

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's about them cheating death.

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Huh.

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Interesting.

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But of course, yeah.

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Most of the reveals this episode are about Teen.

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_02]: How are you...

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you on the theory that Teen is controlling what's happening on the road?

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: That he...

[01:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: That it's a creation, a Wanda-style reality warp?

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not there yet.

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:13:02] [SPEAKER_06]: I can understand the theory, but I'm not.

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not there yet.

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not on board.

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So one thing I did notice on my episodes one and two rewatched today is that in episode

[01:13:14] [SPEAKER_02]: two, the door actually appears before he comes running back downstairs to the basement.

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_06]: And it opened when he came down.

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, but they opened it.

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it wasn't like it was blocked before he came down.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_02]: They were already opening it.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he comes out.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, is that the door?

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, great.

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And then he's the first one down.

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if that means anything, but just, um, just, yeah.

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Paying attention to that.

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And also one other thing I have to bring up that people have been bringing up is, you know,

[01:13:46] [SPEAKER_02]: there's that theory going around that people think that the cabin trial was fake somehow,

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_02]: because for one thing, the aspect ratio didn't change like it did for the other trials on

[01:13:56] [SPEAKER_02]: the, on the image.

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then the other thing, and this is the one, I don't know, like why, what would it being

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: fake mean?

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_02]: What's the purpose that would serve?

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Why, you know, quote unquote, waste our time like that.

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not, I'm not buying into it, but the one thing that is suspicious is that it is

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the only time where the exit has opened up word.

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Whereas all of the songs repeat, like the one thing that every version of the ballad has

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: in common is it's down, down, down, down.

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So just putting that out there.

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, Nicole from nevermind the music, she made a comment in the discord.

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: The posters in William's room are full of Easter eggs.

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just so good.

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, when I went back in, I had to do lots of pausing in the bedrooms of both

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_02]: William and 16 year old Billy.

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But in first in 13 year old William Kaplan's room, we see a lot of magic related stuff.

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_02]: There's like medieval wizard art, Houdini posters.

[01:15:02] [SPEAKER_02]: There's Disney posters, Alice in Wonderland, Black Cauldron, Bedknobs and Broomsticks.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: There's something called the Goofballs, which looks like a Goonies poster.

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_02]: There's like a giant castle replica he's been building.

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So it seems like William Kaplan also has some like magic and witchy interests.

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, like he also had a fortune teller at his bar mitzvah.

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Is that why, um, Billy's soul inhabited?

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_06]: That vessel.

[01:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe there was already a connection or a, not a connection, but like a kindred spirits

[01:15:37] [SPEAKER_02]: of sorts.

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Although, yeah, we see William's wholesome side where he has like Eastview sports pennants

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and pictures with family and friends.

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then his 16 year old room, it's actually, it does feel like it would be the evolution

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_02]: of the same person who is in the 13 year old rooms, but more mature.

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So now his posters are like he has a Lorna Wu poster.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_02]: He has a Fleetwood Mac poster from 77, just like the one we saw in episode four in the trial.

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, he has posters for the craft, a movie that keeps getting referenced.

[01:16:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Saw, Carrie, Jennifer's body, Trans Life Matters, uh, poster.

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_02]: He has a bunch of books, including Wizard of Oz, like the full series of books is a bunch

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: of board games, like in the cabin record players, like in the, you know, um, recording

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: studio.

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: He has a leaf mobile that I think could be like an inspiration for the trees, you know,

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: in the leaves on the ground of the road.

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: There's bonsai trees strung with lights, a lot of moon posters.

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got moon posters all over his wall.

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_02]: He's got moon stuff on his chair and in his spell book in the margins is all this stuff

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: about moon stuff.

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So there is like in, if you are interested in witchcraft, people do tend to have special

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_02]: interests like anything else.

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And there are people who are specifically moon witches who are interested in how the

[01:17:06] [SPEAKER_02]: phases of the moon affect everything.

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So it seems like he's a moon witch.

[01:17:10] [SPEAKER_06]: And all of this leads back to your question two minutes ago.

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Is he the one who is this road, a creation of his?

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Or a co-creation with Agatha again, like his mom did.

[01:17:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, because I feel like she has influences too, but yeah, you have to, there's

[01:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: so many Easter eggs from his room that connect directly with things seen in the road.

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And we also see notes on his wall, including the sigil stuff we talked about, but also he's

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to work out what the letters and numbers in the sigil might be.

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So we see one note that has like, he's questioning, is there a two in there?

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: An M, a Z, a W, an N, a six.

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but then he, he picks up another post-it note that has narrowed it down to four and

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: it's two M W N.

[01:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So I wonder if two means because it's two bodies.

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, W Maximoff, William Nicholas.

[01:18:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_06]: It was the Z.

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I, well, he, yeah.

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: For this one, he's like two M W N is the one that he was going with at that moment.

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if that means anything, but I'm putting it out there for us to keep track

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: of.

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh man.

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_06]: You're about to make me do like some serious nerding.

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_02]: This show is great nerdspiration.

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, man.

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and we know he's carried the sigil around constantly for three years staring at it.

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, but he lied about wanting power to Agatha.

[01:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Why not just say he wanted to rescue his brother?

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess to identify with her.

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't, I think to, because I think that's what he thinks of which would say.

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:19:06] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:19:07] [SPEAKER_06]: So yes, to identify with her.

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_06]: But, and as we see, it seems as if everyone on the road, that is exactly what they want

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_06]: is power.

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_06]: But he has another, his real reason is not that.

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_06]: And Agatha even says to herself, you know, you already have beaucoup power.

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_06]: So it can't be power that you're looking for.

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_06]: So it never was about the power for him, but he had to say it because I think that's what

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_06]: he thinks witches would say.

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[01:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: But I also, I noticed again, doing the rewatch of episode one, that that whole thing about

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: the ink from the quote unquote fingerprints on his fingers.

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Like this means that Agatha, obviously he didn't have that ink on his fingers in real

[01:19:55] [SPEAKER_02]: life.

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_06]: But in her vision, in her world reality.

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: She suspects a dark old connection.

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Could there somehow that little booklet he carries?

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_02]: No, that little booklet was definitely no dark old.

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_06]: No, it wasn't a dark old, but it was, there's something there, right?

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Her consciousness was trying to tell her something.

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Her subconscious was trying to tell her something.

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So that brings me to the questions about Rio.

[01:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So as we said, Rio is not visible in any flashback scenes from Billy's perspective.

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it is also because they did specific cutting to hide what exactly he saw or didn't

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_02]: saw when we thought he might be looking at her.

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But that does lead to the question.

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Like we know at the one point Rio was not in the room watching the interrogation when

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Agatha staring at the painting.

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: But was she there at any of the other moments that Agatha thought she was talking about

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: her?

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Or was this just Agatha's like inner longing for Rio coming out and her painting her and

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: her fonder memories?

[01:21:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[01:21:04] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm torn whether Rio is real or not.

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't, you wonder if she's real at all?

[01:21:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going that far, but.

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:21:14] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm off the ledge.

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Because the others interact with her.

[01:21:19] [SPEAKER_06]: The others are interacting with the road.

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:21:22] [SPEAKER_06]: The road is real.

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you think that, I mean, then that would be, it would have to be then that it's a shared

[01:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: delusion between the folly.

[01:21:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Not a delusion, but a shared style.

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Which means Agatha and, yeah.

[01:21:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But okay.

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So then my questions were, so when Rio was coming around and like helping Agatha with

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_02]: the quote unquote investigation and the breakout of this hold she was in, my question was, how

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: would Agatha know about the dark hole being destroyed?

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Like if she's been stuck in this, I can imagine she would know about Wanda dying because the

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: neighbors at some point would say like, oh, apparently Wanda has died.

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be something that they would talk about, but they wouldn't even know about the

[01:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: dark hole to say that that, that all copies of the dark hole were destroyed.

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Although.

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_06]: So again, I think it's just her subconscious.

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But how does she, what did she like feel it somehow or someone else came to see her and

[01:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: told her this?

[01:22:24] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's not Rio who told her, although she does in the show, she does, she has that whole

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_02]: encounter in the library with the whispering delivery man through the stacks.

[01:22:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Before that?

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I think she feels it.

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_06]: I think she feels it.

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_06]: So.

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Because she had a connection to the dark hole as well.

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I could imagine.

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm more, I think it's more likely that the fight after Agatha broke out is real.

[01:22:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_02]: The fight at the end of episode one.

[01:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:23:00] [SPEAKER_06]: When she tells her, you know, Salem seven are coming for you, blah, blah, blah.

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I suppose Agatha could infer like, oh, I've lost the protection of the dark

[01:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: hole.

[01:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: They're coming, but I feel like that one is more likely to be real.

[01:23:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe all this stuff in the hex is not.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe Rio showed up at that moment because Agatha got out of the spell and it meant like

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: her protection was gone because she is no longer hiding behind the dark hole.

[01:23:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:23:27] [SPEAKER_02]: They're messing with us.

[01:23:29] [SPEAKER_06]: There's some things going on that we're not privy to yet.

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And so we learned some new things about Agatha from Billy's research to one.

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was pausing and reading all this stuff on the computer screen, of course.

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: So one thing is that apparently witches can choose how they age and present themselves,

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: which is what we see with Lillia Calderoo in the comics.

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So this makes sense.

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is why, you know, they look whatever age they want to look.

[01:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, there's also there was on the message boards rumors that the children of the Salemites

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: escaped Evanora Harkness's coven.

[01:24:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's obviously the Salem seven rumors about.

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But a fun fact about the animals chosen that I just heard on the podcast this past week,

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the official podcast.

[01:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They apparently they they wanted animals.

[01:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So the reason why they diverged from the animal connections with the comic characters is they

[01:24:24] [SPEAKER_02]: wanted animals that were specifically from New England because they're from Salem.

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So, OK, that's fair.

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: But then they also said when they were starting to talk about what animals and they start to

[01:24:34] [SPEAKER_02]: talk to animal trainers, the animal trainers are like, nope, nope, nope, not that one.

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Too difficult to work with.

[01:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So eventually they're like, you know, it's great to work with rats.

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Rats are everywhere and they are super great to work with on screen.

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So they ended up choosing animals that were both local to New England and easier, easy to work

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_06]: with.

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's important.

[01:24:59] [SPEAKER_02]: But here we got the pictures of Agatha across the era.

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So, of course, she was in Salem.

[01:25:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, she's also a Titanic survivor.

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: She survived the Hindenburg disaster, the Zeppelin crash in the 50s.

[01:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And they said a witness described terror on board.

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's some implication that like maybe she was the cause of these things.

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And why would that be like, is she stealing power from someone?

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she being attacked?

[01:25:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she?

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_02]: There's, they even said that she, in 1972, there's a picture of her with Dolly Parton

[01:25:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and it says, is this Jolene?

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, it is Jolene, Jolene.

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that whole song about I'm begging of you.

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Please don't take my man.

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So do you think she took Dolly Parton spam?

[01:25:48] [SPEAKER_06]: No.

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_06]: But she might have hexed him.

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't really have auburn hair, does she?

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_06]: No, she doesn't.

[01:25:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Not flaming locks.

[01:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: That would be, that would be Wanda.

[01:25:58] [SPEAKER_06]: That would be Wanda.

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:26:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And then there was also on a message board, someone said, oh, sorry, it was on a wiki.

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Because there's that, there's that Brujapedia that also, by the way, says that Abigail

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Adams, the wife of the second president.

[01:26:12] [SPEAKER_06]: There's a lot of comics with Abigail Adams as a, as a supernatural being.

[01:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know why, what the, I tried to look up and see like, is there something from

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: her history that would make her an interesting character for that?

[01:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And I cannot find any link, but for some reason, yeah, it's a thing.

[01:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, that, that Brujapedia, which Bruja means witch in Spanish.

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It said that, that, sorry, Agatha was last seen in Nashville in 1973.

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So then I was like, but does that mean she was, cause Lorna Wu died in Nashville, but

[01:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: it must've been much later.

[01:26:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Unless Alice is presenting as younger than.

[01:26:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Than she actually is.

[01:26:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[01:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Cause we know she was alive until Alice was at least 13.

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:27:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So, hmm.

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Questions, questions.

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And then of course it says she's a, uh, Agatha is the only known survivor of the witch's

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: road.

[01:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And, and that's while Billy's listening to that song.

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So he gets that it's real moment.

[01:27:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, uh, in his book, uh, it says find what's missing on the witch's road.

[01:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And he looks at the name, Tommy.

[01:27:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, one thing I noticed in terms of also, you know, Agatha's ability to influence a delusion.

[01:27:30] [SPEAKER_02]: There were no detective references in Billy's room.

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So that must've been all Agatha and the detective thing in the hex.

[01:27:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[01:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Any thoughts about Agatha's revelations?

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, any surprises?

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, the only one that threw me for a surprise was the Abigail Adams.

[01:27:49] [SPEAKER_06]: I was like, yeah, Abigail Adams shows up here.

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Like again.

[01:27:54] [SPEAKER_06]: That was a surprise.

[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: The deep, deep dive Easter eggs.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_06]: But I like, I like how they, you know, have her throughout history popping up.

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_06]: There is reminiscent of, um, of a DCEU, uh, movie that I won't talk about here.

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Wait, watch one.

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_06]: When, um, Batman is searching for others that he can.

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_06]: So, oh, I see the justice league.

[01:28:21] [SPEAKER_06]: He has all these pictures of Diana, um, Wonder Woman throughout history.

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_06]: And so he's, you know, trying to track her down.

[01:28:29] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so it was much in the same vein that they did this.

[01:28:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so it was cool.

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I liked it.

[01:28:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I guess, what do you think is going to happen in the next three episodes?

[01:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:28:45] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think we're going to get earth and air trials?

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't.

[01:28:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Here's my thing.

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_06]: My thing is, uh, as I'm watching these episodes, I feel like there, there's enough that they've

[01:28:58] [SPEAKER_06]: done up until now that I don't think there is going to be any more quote unquote trials.

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like the game's changed.

[01:29:07] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a three episode arc.

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_06]: So I think we're, we're out of that now.

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_06]: And I think now it's just about the story and how our cat, the remaining characters that

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_06]: we have in the characters who have, you know, we've experienced already how they play a role

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_06]: in the ending of this story.

[01:29:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_06]: So to call them trials, I don't think we're going to have that.

[01:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I do still need Lillia's backstory.

[01:29:43] [SPEAKER_06]: I think we'll get a backstory for her, but I don't think it'll come in.

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I want more in Jen.

[01:29:48] [SPEAKER_06]: Lillia's trial.

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Like we've had with Jen that we had with Alice, um, because right now, presumably they're

[01:29:57] [SPEAKER_06]: off the board quite literally.

[01:30:00] [SPEAKER_06]: So we have to bring them back.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_06]: The both of them, bring them back, Jen and Lillia to see how the story overall can conclude.

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

[01:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course I need, we need to know what's up with Rio.

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she real?

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she what?

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she the green man?

[01:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she, you know, what's her dealio?

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And where'd she go?

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:30:24] [SPEAKER_06]: Where is she?

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_06]: Where is Rio?

[01:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: She does seem to pop in and out at certain times.

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Should we get into the feedback?

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, let's do it.

[01:30:34] [SPEAKER_02]: We actually have, we have voicemails, uh, from lorehounds, David and John both.

[01:30:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So let's start with David's.

[01:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey guys.

[01:30:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Using the voice memo app on my phone to send a quick feedback in while I'm listening to

[01:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: the episode five podcast.

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Besides the fact that I'm really enjoying the show and just so glad that Marvel TV has

[01:30:57] [SPEAKER_01]: a good show in the offing to, uh, put in there next to Loki.

[01:31:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I was wondering, I was ready to put down an internet bet to say that I wonder if this

[01:31:12] [SPEAKER_01]: show is going to be the redemption arc for Agatha.

[01:31:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and if they are going to end up being Agatha's coven, like if they're actually going

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_01]: to restore that.

[01:31:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if.

[01:31:28] [SPEAKER_01]: I hope so.

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Wanda was about grief and ultimately hope, I guess, in some way, or the, the, the reaching

[01:31:38] [SPEAKER_01]: or the grasping for hope.

[01:31:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I wonder if there's some sort of redemption arc in here for Agatha.

[01:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and, uh, I think I'm willing to wager a few internet points to say that, uh, that

[01:31:49] [SPEAKER_01]: they end up as some kind of coven together, uh, in the end.

[01:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it would be fun to see that.

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

[01:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Back to the podcast.

[01:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.

[01:31:58] [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think, sir?

[01:31:59] [SPEAKER_06]: I can see that.

[01:32:01] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[01:32:01] [SPEAKER_06]: I can, I can see that.

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_06]: I can, I absolutely can see that this will be her coven and this will be her way back to,

[01:32:10] [SPEAKER_06]: um, some sort of respectability.

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_06]: Where she's not a pariah and she's not pretending to be a baby eating witch.

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[01:32:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:32:21] [SPEAKER_06]: So I definitely can see that.

[01:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll go as far to say that.

[01:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope so.

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And I, yeah, I want her to see her form a coven together.

[01:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking there's these, um, there's this like four episode mini series called witches,

[01:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: which actually has a followup novel, um, called witches unleashed.

[01:32:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That is about Jennifer kale, who's teams up with two unlikely people.

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: So she with, uh, Santana hellstrom, who's, you know, demonish and also with topaz, who's

[01:32:53] [SPEAKER_02]: like a more angelic sort of which, um, and it's about them kind of learn getting past their

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: bickering and learning to work together.

[01:33:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm hoping that this has similar vibes to that.

[01:33:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's why they use Jennifer and man thing, of course.

[01:33:15] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Let's listen to Jen's voicemail.

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, Alicia and John.

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to call in with my hot takes on the latest episode, episode six of Agatha all

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_05]: along.

[01:33:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Now this is a show.

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember I just did with Alicia earlier in the year, like who is excited for this show

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_05]: because I just wasn't, I was not into the idea of the show.

[01:33:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt like it was a spinoff of a spinoff and I had very low expectations going in.

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, especially the, the history of Marvel shows, the last one I watched other than Loki was

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_05]: secret invasion.

[01:33:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I was just starting to lose confidence in the studio's ability to tell standalone stories

[01:33:54] [SPEAKER_05]: that felt compelling.

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And then I watched Agatha all along from the first episode.

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I was pretty into it.

[01:34:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I was not super into the detective thing, but after we got out of that, I was so in,

[01:34:06] [SPEAKER_05]: it felt so Halloweeny.

[01:34:08] [SPEAKER_05]: It felt so spooky, so witchy.

[01:34:10] [SPEAKER_05]: And it felt like a story that had its own legs that were independent of the MCU.

[01:34:15] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I'm a noted MCU detractor, although now I'm starting to get into it and I'm starting

[01:34:20] [SPEAKER_05]: to watch all the movies again from the beginning.

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_05]: But this is a story that doesn't feel like it's made to set up the next thing.

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's been my criticism of the recent MCU stuff is it always feels like it's trying

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_05]: to get me excited for the next thing instead of focusing on the now.

[01:34:36] [SPEAKER_05]: And I almost feel like when Lilia is telling William, previous William, not Billy, you know,

[01:34:44] [SPEAKER_05]: just enjoy enjoy the time you have.

[01:34:47] [SPEAKER_05]: That's kind of the way this show is going is this is a story about the characters who are

[01:34:52] [SPEAKER_05]: in it.

[01:34:53] [SPEAKER_05]: This is not a story to set up the next Avenger.

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And that's awesome to me.

[01:34:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I am so into this.

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I loved Billy's backstory.

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I love the way that we had Wiccan come in.

[01:35:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And from what I've read, I've not read any of the comics featuring Wiccan, but from what

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I've read online, this is a character with an extremely convoluted backstory and they managed

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_05]: to contain it all in a very understandable way that wouldn't even require you to watch

[01:35:18] [SPEAKER_05]: WandaVision, even though it would make it more meaningful if you had.

[01:35:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So overall, I'm just so thrilled with this show.

[01:35:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I think they've done an amazing job putting it together.

[01:35:27] [SPEAKER_05]: And I hope this is the quality we can expect from Marvel going forward.

[01:35:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And I'll see you on the next Marvel show, probably, because now I'm watching all the MCU movies

[01:35:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and I'm up to Iron Man 3.

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_05]: So thanks for thanks for having my feedback and looking forward to the rest of your podcast.

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's right.

[01:35:43] [SPEAKER_06]: This is not trying to so far up to this point.

[01:35:47] [SPEAKER_06]: It's not trying to set up the next thing.

[01:35:48] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's its own story.

[01:35:51] [SPEAKER_06]: And this is Agatha's story.

[01:35:53] [SPEAKER_06]: And it's come to be Billy's story.

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_06]: And maybe it will end up being their story.

[01:35:59] [SPEAKER_06]: But this is very much not about the external MCU.

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_06]: And we get to focus and enjoy these characters without having to worry about what it all means

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_06]: to the grander scheme of things.

[01:36:17] [SPEAKER_06]: And that's welcome.

[01:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: In terms of the convoluted backstory, I just found out a couple days ago that there is

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I was missing a piece of it, which actually makes it even more convoluted in the way.

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's the Marvel Voices Infinity Comics Young Avengers miniseries from 2022 that explains

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: that.

[01:36:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I was saying, yeah, they, you know, they somehow go back and inhabit their, these bodies.

[01:36:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And so a comic artist came in, you know, writer came in and said, we're going to explain it

[01:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: by they're using M-Cron crystals, which are she are thing from people who know that from

[01:36:56] [SPEAKER_02]: X-Men.

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Another race of aliens.

[01:36:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're going to use these M-Cron crystals to time travel back to the bodies.

[01:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, you know what?

[01:37:05] [SPEAKER_02]: For this TV show, I'm so glad they just like cut through all of that.

[01:37:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And they're just like, it radiated out from Westview into an Eastview boy's body.

[01:37:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Done.

[01:37:15] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:37:16] [SPEAKER_06]: I hadn't read that.

[01:37:18] [SPEAKER_06]: I haven't read it yet either, but.

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_06]: And what I will say about the M-Cron crystal is that it allows you to travel to different

[01:37:29] [SPEAKER_06]: universes, not just different time.

[01:37:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_06]: So it's really important in the comic books.

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Like you said, it's a Shi'ar thing.

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_06]: And the mutants have always, it's always been associated with X-Men and things of that nature.

[01:37:47] [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, just for what we're talking about here, I think it's important to know that

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_06]: it allows one to travel to different realities, which is what Wanda was trying to seek, what

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_06]: she did seek, what she did do in Multiverse of Madness, which is causing from that movie

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_06]: the repercussions of what we're probably going to get in the future Marvel movies.

[01:38:18] [SPEAKER_06]: It has nothing to do with this series, but it's just a piece of the lore that's up.

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:38:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:38:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Shall we take turns reading the rest?

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.

[01:38:32] [SPEAKER_06]: So from Davey Mack, I loved the bar mitzvah sequence at the beginning and everything leading

[01:38:37] [SPEAKER_06]: up to the car crash.

[01:38:38] [SPEAKER_06]: The whole sequence was beautifully done.

[01:38:41] [SPEAKER_06]: It also recalled a bit of the Coen brothers, a serious man for me.

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_06]: Huh.

[01:38:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I watched that movie and I remember liking it, but I don't remember much about it, but I

[01:38:51] [SPEAKER_02]: guess there must've been a bar mitzvah in it as well.

[01:38:55] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a good movie.

[01:38:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I just, yeah, but then I don't remember it.

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So then what does that mean?

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm going to have to rewatch it.

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: So Athena Angelea says, where is Patty?

[01:39:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she safe?

[01:39:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Is she okay?

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I agree.

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: If Agatha can get out, so can everyone else.

[01:39:10] [SPEAKER_02]: But it made me sad to not get that confirmation.

[01:39:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And then crying emoji.

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, I'm not going to pretend that I'm worried about them.

[01:39:22] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:39:22] [SPEAKER_06]: She's coming back.

[01:39:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But then I did wonder why we didn't like at least get like a clip, like, oh, they're

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_02]: okay.

[01:39:30] [SPEAKER_02]: They're here.

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, maybe they went through the mud to somewhere else.

[01:39:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what?

[01:39:34] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't even, I didn't even think about it.

[01:39:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Down, down, down, down.

[01:39:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You know?

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:38] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't even think about it.

[01:39:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Because I was just engrossed in this two person story.

[01:39:44] Okay.

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't even wonder.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't even wonder.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_06]: No.

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I understand why.

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, let's dedicate this whole episode to this relationship.

[01:39:52] [SPEAKER_06]: But I do, you know, Patty is coming back, so.

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[01:39:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Have no fun.

[01:39:58] [SPEAKER_02]: They're not going to do her.

[01:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was going to say, they're not going to do her dirty.

[01:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey.

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey.

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey.

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But they literally threw her in mud.

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey.

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: They literally did her dirty.

[01:40:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway.

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_06]: And the quicksand.

[01:40:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Mud trip.

[01:40:10] [SPEAKER_06]: Much to David's chagrin.

[01:40:12] [SPEAKER_02]: The quicksand.

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[01:40:14] [SPEAKER_06]: From Sub-Zero.

[01:40:16] [SPEAKER_06]: What a great episode.

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_06]: I LOL'd all during the retelling of the interrogation sequence.

[01:40:21] [SPEAKER_06]: So did we.

[01:40:23] [SPEAKER_06]: I legit don't know how the actor kept a straight face.

[01:40:27] [SPEAKER_06]: I feel like he was going to break at points.

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_06]: Agatha seemed to imply that Patty and Jen were dead, but I don't believe.

[01:40:34] [SPEAKER_06]: We don't either.

[01:40:35] [SPEAKER_06]: My guess is only Agatha, Billy, and Rio make it out.

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_06]: But I think Lilia and Jen will get proper send-offs.

[01:40:43] [SPEAKER_06]: And my side bet is somehow Mrs. Hart comes back.

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_06]: Mr. Bonarific cracks me up every time I think about it.

[01:40:52] [SPEAKER_06]: Such a perfect cameo.

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_06]: And I would absolutely go see his one man playing Paramus.

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: See?

[01:40:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you there.

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you there, Sub-Zero.

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah.

[01:41:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Ah.

[01:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Ah.

[01:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll give genre reviews.

[01:41:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please.

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So Zatoichi says, I loved it, but the retelling of episode one stuff from the different perspectives

[01:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: was especially great.

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be that guy, but I guess I am.

[01:41:17] [SPEAKER_02]: No death is no stakes.

[01:41:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Not that I want characters to die, but that does add to the tension.

[01:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: No!

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_06]: No!

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_06]: No!

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_06]: No!

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_06]: There are plenty of stakes without death.

[01:41:30] [SPEAKER_06]: No, especially Mrs. Hart.

[01:41:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Keep hope alive!

[01:41:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, poor Alice.

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Alice just burst her family curse, and now she doesn't even get to enjoy it?

[01:41:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh.

[01:41:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Goodness gracious.

[01:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm okay if there's no real deaths in this show.

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I want everybody back.

[01:41:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a reversible process in the comics.

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_02]: It should be reversible here.

[01:41:55] [SPEAKER_06]: So from Maureen D we get, they managed to weave everyone into this episode.

[01:42:00] [SPEAKER_06]: I still wonder if they are really on the witch's road or if Billy created.

[01:42:05] [SPEAKER_06]: Hmm.

[01:42:06] [SPEAKER_06]: And how powerful he is.

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_06]: Nice cameo from Evan Peters.

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_06]: But wouldn't it have been fun if he was a detective and did double meta duty with a

[01:42:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Mayor of Easttown reference?

[01:42:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I agree.

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I understand why that first episode was too packed.

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But for anyone who doesn't know, he played one of the main characters on Mayor of Easttown,

[01:42:27] [SPEAKER_02]: which was one of the main things that the first episode was based on.

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So that would have been perfect in a way.

[01:42:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But I guess story-wise, it didn't necessarily.

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, thank goodness they didn't because that would have continued his torture.

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.

[01:42:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh.

[01:42:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, but it would have been that he sees things a different way.

[01:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: But then, yeah, he would be confronting Agatha directly.

[01:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:42:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And is he ready for that?

[01:42:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so.

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_06]: He's doing a one-man show on Paramus.

[01:42:55] [SPEAKER_02]: At least he's doing things, you know?

[01:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: He's apparently made some hoodoo voodoo friends also.

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps tied to swamps in Florida.

[01:43:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway.

[01:43:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Pawson20 says,

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic sixth episode, and I really liked how they explained backstory of Billy and how he became real.

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, Billy's consciousness was real, and it just transferred into the body of William, who was dead.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: That works for me.

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Also, seeing this episode gives a different perspective of episode one as well.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I absolutely didn't expect to see Ralph Boner again.

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Lastly, it makes sense that Billy now wants to find Tommy.

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope Jen and Lilia aren't dead, but Agatha kind of implied they are.

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be interesting.

[01:43:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it is going to be interesting.

[01:43:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely agree with that.

[01:43:42] [SPEAKER_06]: And from Abby, we get,

[01:43:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Loved how every coven member had a run-in with Billy at one point or other.

[01:43:49] [SPEAKER_06]: So in essence, this was more Billy's coven rather than Agatha's.

[01:43:52] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't believe any of them are dead.

[01:43:55] [SPEAKER_06]: This is reality bending magic show.

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_06]: They will be back.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Where is Rio, by the way?

[01:44:00] [SPEAKER_06]: She just magically disappeared.

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_06]: Or, okay, so everyone who is dead, dead.

[01:44:07] [SPEAKER_06]: For stakes.

[01:44:08] [SPEAKER_06]: The heroine makes it to the end and sacrifices herself for the young one to be able to appear in more shows and movies.

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_06]: By this, she redeems herself.

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_06]: To Feige.

[01:44:19] [SPEAKER_06]: Wouldn't be the first time the writing goes this way.

[01:44:22] [SPEAKER_06]: And is one of the reasons I am not a huge fan of Wanda and the Doctor.

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe I hope for more twists and turns on the way.

[01:44:32] [SPEAKER_06]: For things not to be as they do.

[01:44:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Keep hope alive.

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Quoting.

[01:44:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Well, according to me.

[01:44:39] [SPEAKER_06]: At least to the amount of proper send-offs.

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_06]: I agree.

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to keep hope alive until this plane is landed.

[01:44:48] [SPEAKER_06]: All calmly, safely, and judiciously.

[01:44:53] [SPEAKER_06]: And we all have a great time on the ride.

[01:44:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.

[01:44:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I do think this is going to end with Agatha making a sacrifice for the rest of the coven.

[01:45:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope it's not her life.

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.

[01:45:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Unless she wants to be dead for reasons.

[01:45:14] [SPEAKER_02]: But as we said also, dead is not.

[01:45:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Gone.

[01:45:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:45:18] [SPEAKER_02]: This is comics.

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We're talking.

[01:45:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Now we're opening up in the mystical spheres.

[01:45:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We're expecting, you know, to see.

[01:45:24] [SPEAKER_02]: We're seeing more of the afterlife in various things.

[01:45:27] [SPEAKER_06]: We have.

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_06]: We have in the movies, definitely.

[01:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And this story has.

[01:45:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Agatha actually dies several times in the comics.

[01:45:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So.

[01:45:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:45:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, future editor.

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Alicia popping in because we got in some feedback.

[01:45:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Right after John and I recorded that I thought I wanted to represent the balance of perhaps not everyone.

[01:45:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I love this episode as much as us.

[01:45:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So there is some positive and negative here.

[01:45:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Stu says, not going to lie, I haven't met about this series until this episode.

[01:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I watch because I record a pod about it.

[01:46:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I watch because it's MCU.

[01:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: But this episode is the first that I've gotten excited to see what's going to happen next.

[01:46:13] [SPEAKER_02]: The road at this point for me is a waste of time.

[01:46:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I don't understand the stakes, but I should with only three episodes left to go.

[01:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry that you feel that way.

[01:46:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope that we can help dig into the stakes together in the pod.

[01:46:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I hope that's what we've been doing.

[01:46:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, Danny says I'm the exact opposite.

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: This was the first one that wasn't like a 10 out of 10 for me.

[01:46:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't need a full flashback episode, probably a me problem.

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But once we knew who he was last week, nothing in this episode was very surprising.

[01:46:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I know not everyone knows the comic stories, but very early on I was thinking, okay, cool,

[01:46:46] [SPEAKER_02]: let's get back to the road.

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not saying it was bad or anything.

[01:46:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Danny goes on to say, this show is well on its way to making my top five this year,

[01:46:55] [SPEAKER_02]: although it's getting pretty crowded.

[01:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: If the penguin also keeps it up.

[01:46:59] [SPEAKER_02]: This episode was still like an eight out of 10 when the rest were 10s.

[01:47:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, a me thing.

[01:47:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm coming to the realization that I don't love flashback episodes in this era

[01:47:07] [SPEAKER_02]: of eight to 10 episode seasons.

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And no, I see that for me.

[01:47:11] [SPEAKER_02]: This was very meaningful and fleshing out things.

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: But also I spent a lot of time digging into all the details.

[01:47:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess maybe this is an episode more for that and less for the moving forward,

[01:47:23] [SPEAKER_02]: the story going on here.

[01:47:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Davey Mac says, despite me loving that opening sequence, the rest of the episode didn't hit

[01:47:31] [SPEAKER_02]: as much for me.

[01:47:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But I also fully realize that's probably a me problem and not a problem with the show,

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_02]: since I'm just not as interested in the Marvel aspects.

[01:47:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm here more for the scares and witches.

[01:47:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And Leo Luke Paolo says, even though story-wise, you didn't need a lot of flashback,

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of the flashback, especially the ep one part from Billy's perspective.

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But it was so much fun to watch.

[01:47:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It was my favorite episode yet, but only worked because of the setup.

[01:47:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, that tends to be more along the lines of what I'm thinking.

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I also, I got some feedback on Twitter that I forgot about, but it is interesting.

[01:48:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So I just wanted to say from M. Will, I'm very happy there are nine episodes of Agatha

[01:48:12] [SPEAKER_02]: all along.

[01:48:13] [SPEAKER_02]: The showrunner went, we have nine episodes of the story this season.

[01:48:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're making nine episodes, not squeezing everything into six or eight because suits think

[01:48:20] [SPEAKER_02]: that's more ideal.

[01:48:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Shouldn't feel revolutionary, but it does.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do.

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: From Alicia's perspective, I wonder if there was some rumor of like a separate, another,

[01:48:30] [SPEAKER_02]: another special presentation a la Werewolf by Night.

[01:48:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So I do wonder if like they were going to do eight episodes and then a special presentation

[01:48:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and decided to make it a nine episode series.

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[01:48:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Either way works for me.

[01:48:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And M. Will goes on to say, following up on what you said in the last podcast,

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I always associated avoiding four as a Korean slash Japanese thing because the words for

[01:48:52] [SPEAKER_02]: the number four and death are literally the same.

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Sa and she.

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_02]: If you go to Japan, many hospitals and apartments don't have a fourth floor.

[01:49:01] [SPEAKER_02]: In Chinese, the words sound similar but are distinct.

[01:49:03] [SPEAKER_02]: The numbers 94 in Chinese, for example, sound very close to certain death.

[01:49:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And, and then, yeah, I responded about that.

[01:49:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I had actually read it was particularly Cantonese where the four and death were close to each

[01:49:17] [SPEAKER_02]: other.

[01:49:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And M. Will said, I think you're right.

[01:49:19] [SPEAKER_02]: It's the same in Cantonese, Korean, Japanese, and sounds similar, but different inflection

[01:49:24] [SPEAKER_02]: in Mandarin, which is a heavily inflected language.

[01:49:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But I do remember from my years of studying Japanese in school that it's the exact same

[01:49:31] [SPEAKER_02]: word in that language.

[01:49:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So very interesting.

[01:49:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for clarifying that.

[01:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:49:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And let's get back to the end of the pod.

[01:49:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, any more thoughts on this episode?

[01:49:45] [SPEAKER_06]: No, I'm good.

[01:49:47] [SPEAKER_06]: I'm good.

[01:49:47] [SPEAKER_06]: And I can't wait to episode seven.

[01:49:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:49:50] [SPEAKER_02]: We only have two more weeks left because Halloween is a double episode finale, eight and nine.

[01:49:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So I can't believe it's coming.

[01:49:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It's been so much fun.

[01:49:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was looking forward to it so long and now it's almost over.

[01:50:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Three episodes.

[01:50:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Calm down, Alicia.

[01:50:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And we had, there was a, we're not doing an episode of the Penguin this week.

[01:50:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Probably next week we'll do another one.

[01:50:14] [SPEAKER_06]: But I will say, let me just say.

[01:50:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_06]: Let me just say.

[01:50:18] [SPEAKER_06]: It was a good episode.

[01:50:19] [SPEAKER_06]: What the, what an episode.

[01:50:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:50:23] [SPEAKER_02]: It was another backstory origin story.

[01:50:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I love a backstory origin story.

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_02]: When it's well done.

[01:50:29] [SPEAKER_06]: When it's well done.

[01:50:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:50:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And Kristen, Kristen Miladi is iconic.

[01:50:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That yellow dress that she was wearing and that eye makeup.

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Woo.

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Just, yeah.

[01:50:37] [SPEAKER_06]: Amazing stuff.

[01:50:38] [SPEAKER_02]: This, oh, just the, she, yeah.

[01:50:40] [SPEAKER_02]: This is her Emmy submission for sure this episode.

[01:50:43] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, absolutely.

[01:50:44] [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.

[01:50:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're not watching the Penguin, very different vibes from this, but it's just as good.

[01:50:50] [SPEAKER_02]: It's, yeah.

[01:50:51] [SPEAKER_02]: With the, in the more gangster character.

[01:50:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Mime.

[01:50:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:50:56] [SPEAKER_06]: Just good stuff.

[01:50:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Good stuff.

[01:50:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah.

[01:50:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Joker too.

[01:51:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, I still haven't watched it.

[01:51:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You have seen it.

[01:51:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hoping.

[01:51:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I've just been so behind because of the travel for the wedding and being sick and catching

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_02]: up on work and working on this travel book.

[01:51:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So sorry.

[01:51:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm slower on things.

[01:51:14] [SPEAKER_02]: No worries.

[01:51:14] [SPEAKER_06]: We'll talk about it.

[01:51:16] [SPEAKER_06]: Um, yeah, we'll talk about it.

[01:51:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:51:19] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about it.

[01:51:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, you are biting your tongue for now until I've seen it.

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm eager to make up my mind and to hear what you think too.

[01:51:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.

[01:51:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, David, Nate, and I are also working on plans for a Pachinko season two, one shot.

[01:51:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So watch out for word on that soon.

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And of course we are into spooktober now.

[01:51:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So tying directly into this episode, the craft coverage is coming out on the, uh, we'll shift

[01:51:45] [SPEAKER_02]: dust feed and plus a subscriber episode on the history of the evolution of the coven

[01:51:50] [SPEAKER_02]: with an audio drama.

[01:51:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh, on the, uh,

[01:52:04] [SPEAKER_02]: the, the star Wars Canon timeline podcast, uh, there's going to be on the public feed echoes

[01:52:10] [SPEAKER_02]: of the Sith in the high Republic.

[01:52:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And in the, um, Canon Padawan feed for subscribers is going to be another Sith story from legends

[01:52:18] [SPEAKER_02]: about Darth Nihilus.

[01:52:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And then plus do book, deep dives and more silo coverage coming to will shift dust this month.

[01:52:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I've been very busy recording stuff for that recently.

[01:52:28] [SPEAKER_02]: We Luke and I've recorded a couple Dune episodes, including one with David.

[01:52:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And also we just recorded a breakdown of the trailer that came out for silo.

[01:52:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So that silo trailer breakdown is going to come out probably right after this episode.

[01:52:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And on a radioactive rambling, they're doing the red rising series and nevermind.

[01:52:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The music is still going strong.

[01:52:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Recommend everyone check them out.

[01:52:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a, that's a show for everyone.

[01:52:55] [SPEAKER_02]: There's like, no, I would not recommend that show too.

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, definitely.

[01:52:58] [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely.

[01:52:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And as always, of course, a super cast and Patreon subscribers get early ad free access

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_02]: to episodes plus extra episodes like second breakfast and 11 Z's where we just

[01:53:08] [SPEAKER_02]: we released prey last month.

[01:53:10] [SPEAKER_02]: This month it's a, there's poltergeist sequels and show guys for the biggest shows

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and other little extras along the way.

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Now.

[01:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I know that John is probably especially eager to hear my musical selection for this week.

[01:53:26] [SPEAKER_06]: What folder is it?

[01:53:27] [SPEAKER_06]: That's the question.

[01:53:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a magical folder.

[01:53:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sticking with the magical folder for Agatha.

[01:53:31] [SPEAKER_06]: The magical folder part two.

[01:53:32] [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.

[01:53:33] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It's old village from the, from the magical folder.

[01:53:37] [SPEAKER_02]: It just magical.

[01:53:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Old village.

[01:53:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Right.

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[01:53:39] [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_06]: Huh.

[01:53:41] [SPEAKER_06]: All right.

[01:53:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Let's, let's give it a go.

[01:53:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Here we go.

[01:53:45] [SPEAKER_02]: See?

[01:53:46] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:53:46] [SPEAKER_02]: There we go.

[01:53:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so first thank you to our discord server boosters, Aaron K.

[01:53:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Tiller, Tiller, the Thriller, Dork of the Ninjas, Doove 71, Athena Agilea, Tina Listu, Nancy M,

[01:53:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Ghost of Pardition, and Richard W.

[01:54:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And thank you especially to our lore masters.

[01:54:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Our lore masters are our highest tier of subscribers.

[01:54:07] [SPEAKER_02]: We want to thank all our subscribers, all of our listeners, but the lore masters are the ones who

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_02]: especially make it possible to pay for the software and to take some compensation for all the time

[01:54:18] [SPEAKER_02]: we put into this and take care of co-hosts and things like that.

[01:54:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you.

[01:54:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Lore masters.

[01:54:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Samartian, Michael G., Michelle E., Brian P., SC, Peter OH, Bettina W., Adam S., Nancy M.,

[01:54:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Doove 71, Brian 8063, Frederick H., Sarah L., Garrett C., Eric F., Matthew,

[01:54:37] [SPEAKER_02]: M., Sarah M., DJ Miwa, Andra B., Kwong Yu, Dead Eye Jedi Bob, Nathan T., Alex V., Aaron T.,

[01:54:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Sub Zero, Aaron K., Dally V., Mothership 61, Narls, Kathy W., Listu, Jeffrey B., Elisa Yu,

[01:54:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Fossey Yu, Neil F., Ben B., Scott F., and always last, Adrian.

[01:54:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you guys.

[01:55:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.

[01:55:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

[01:55:02] [SPEAKER_06]: Can't do this without you.

[01:55:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like you probably have something that you want to say.

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I do.

[01:55:09] [SPEAKER_06]: I do.

[01:55:09] [SPEAKER_06]: This is New York Comic Con week, weekend.

[01:55:13] [SPEAKER_06]: So for everyone who is attending, I'm not sure if the folks who are listening will get this by then.

[01:55:19] [SPEAKER_06]: But even if you don't, if you're on Twitter, you're on Threads, Instagram, Blue Sky, wherever you're at, whatever platforms you're using, I just have one request.

[01:55:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Put it in the world.

[01:55:38] [SPEAKER_06]: Let Marvel know.

[01:55:41] [SPEAKER_06]: Recast T'Challa.

[01:55:44] [SPEAKER_05]: The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds.

[01:55:48] [SPEAKER_05]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds podcasts at patreon.com slash the Lorehounds.

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.

[01:56:05] Thank you.