Dune: Prophecy - S01E01 - The Hidden Hand

[00:00:16] Welcome to the Dune Prophecy Podcast. We're the Lorehounds, your guides to the secrets of the sisterhood. I'm David.

[00:00:23] And I'm Alaysia. This is our coverage of the HBO series, Dune Prophecy, Episode 1, The Hidden Hand.

[00:00:30] In this podcast, we're going to give our hot takes and sort of general analysis. We'll take a little break, we'll get into a scene by scene, and then we'll have some listener feedback.

[00:00:40] And then we're going to, I'll talk about this in a second, but we're going to push deep, deep book spoilers to the very end after the intro.

[00:00:47] We also definitely want to hear what you all are thinking about the new show and your Dune thoughts in general.

[00:00:53] Please email those to dune at the lorehounds.com. And thank you so much to Hand of the Pod Nancy, who is helping us corral feedback for this show.

[00:01:02] Because it seems like we have a lot of excitement in the community about this one.

[00:01:06] We do. And I offered to maybe change her title to Mentat or Reverend Mother, but she wanted to stick with Hand of the Pod.

[00:01:15] So, fair enough. We like to mix our IPs over here at the Lorehounds.

[00:01:19] Also, if you're new to us, welcome to the community.

[00:01:24] We would invite you to our Discord server. There's a link in the show notes below.

[00:01:29] We've got a great community, a great mod team, and we'll have channels set up for all the different episodes.

[00:01:35] So you talk about what's going on without getting spoiled from episode to episode.

[00:01:40] I also want to plug our show guide.

[00:01:42] A lot of times we make these as subscriber-only offerings, but for this one, we thought we would just open it up,

[00:01:49] let everybody get a chance to see what a show guide looks like.

[00:01:52] We're still in the process of building it. There's just so much new information coming in from the show.

[00:01:57] There's a link for the show notes in that as well.

[00:02:00] And again, it's just an on-screen guide.

[00:02:03] You can second-screen it on your phone. It works really well in that regard.

[00:02:07] So you can remember who characters are or look up a detail about a glossary word or a location, stuff like that.

[00:02:14] And so we will keep building it out as we go along with the season.

[00:02:18] Do also follow wherever you're listening to make sure you get all the episodes.

[00:02:22] But there's also a subscription model for people who want additional materials.

[00:02:27] For example, for Doom Prophecy, David here made two extra subscriber episodes,

[00:02:33] breaking down the trailer from both the visual perspective and then from the auditory perspective.

[00:02:39] So you can find that as well as our takes on extra movies like High Fidelity, the Poltergeist sequels.

[00:02:46] There's a bunch of Christmas Netflix cheese coming up.

[00:02:50] You can find some serious cheese.

[00:02:53] You can find all these sorts of extras in the Supercast or Patreon subscriptions,

[00:02:58] and you'll find those links in the show notes.

[00:03:01] Alicia, how are you doing?

[00:03:02] This, I don't know how you're doing.

[00:03:04] I feel like I'm stretched right now between life and then this big show when we've got so much work to do on it.

[00:03:10] And you're covering Silo at the same time.

[00:03:12] Yes, I am.

[00:03:13] And I'm prepping the two Christmas specials.

[00:03:17] So we're doing the Netflix stuff for the Lurhound's Feed,

[00:03:19] and then Luke and I are doing a Christmas carol for Will Shift Us.

[00:03:24] Oh, that's right.

[00:03:25] You're getting into your story podcaster world, right?

[00:03:29] Where you like to create a whole sound effect things and narrative structure stuff.

[00:03:35] Yeah, really fun.

[00:03:35] Radio drama.

[00:03:36] I guess I would call it radio drama, but we're not on the radio anymore.

[00:03:39] Right.

[00:03:40] Wow.

[00:03:40] This is the new radio.

[00:03:42] Although, I don't know.

[00:03:43] I know for people who drive cars, the radio still exists.

[00:03:48] Right.

[00:03:49] So let's talk about our general hot takes and then do some contextual analysis of what we're seeing here.

[00:03:57] And I'll just put out really quick.

[00:03:59] I know we've got a little, we'll talk a little bit more about spoilers later before we get into the scene by scene.

[00:04:04] But just to reiterate, if there is something that is a plot point that's a surprise or an interesting thing or, oh, I didn't know about that.

[00:04:13] We're going to put that all the way at the very end after our outro, after the credit music.

[00:04:18] So there's just no way that you can accidentally get spoiled.

[00:04:21] But plot is different than lore.

[00:04:24] So if we want to talk about what the voice is or what the eyes of the ibad are, like so that meta context that gives you an understanding of what you're seeing or what we're talking about.

[00:04:36] We'll unpack that and explain that in the episode.

[00:04:38] But plot points, especially from the books, we're going to kick that all the way to the end.

[00:04:44] So just so you can feel comfortable and we can talk in general about what we've seen so far in episode one.

[00:04:49] So what are your initial thoughts?

[00:04:51] Yeah, so I'm quite happy with this opening.

[00:04:54] I know some people thought that it was a bit of a slow setup or too many characters.

[00:04:58] But me, I love an ensemble drama.

[00:05:00] I'm like, yes, yes.

[00:05:01] Putting all the, we're setting up the chessboard.

[00:05:04] So I know from, from interviews, like I've seen, there's, they've been asked a lot in interviews, like what are your favorite episodes?

[00:05:14] And all of them said four or five and six.

[00:05:16] Interesting.

[00:05:17] So I think this is just something that, yeah, we're getting because there is so much lore, you know, we have so much to unpack here.

[00:05:23] And it's getting all of these pieces into place, especially considering we're jumping to a new part of the timeline from what people know from the movies.

[00:05:32] And so as a book fan, I got really excited, much Leo pointing meme for both the prequels and unexpectedly, the Frank Herbert sequels.

[00:05:43] We'll talk about all that at the very end, obviously.

[00:05:45] Yeah, there were some definite things.

[00:05:47] I was like, whoa, I can't believe that they actually said that word or yeah, there are things.

[00:05:53] But they, yeah, they obviously have a deep understanding and respect for the lore.

[00:05:58] Or, you know, it's, it's like we got in this episode, we got a flashback from Mentats of Dune, which is a second book in the great schools prequel trilogy, which is set before the show.

[00:06:12] And so that was a good measure for me of like, how much are they going to stick to the books?

[00:06:15] And I have to say they condensed a little bit as you would expect, but they really seem to be honoring, you know, this world that's been built.

[00:06:23] Right, right.

[00:06:25] And I guess that's a good question to, or not question, but a point to establish in terms of where you're at versus where I'm at versus where we are with the show.

[00:06:35] I've read the original six books, but I really haven't dug into the extended universe.

[00:06:41] Sometimes you see that referred to as XD, like if you're on the internet, so you'll see XD, that means extended.

[00:06:48] And you've read more of the extended work that Brian Herbert, Frank's son, and his writing partner, Kevin Anderson.

[00:06:56] Yeah.

[00:06:56] And they've read like what, 15, 16 books, like an amazing amount of material.

[00:07:01] Yeah.

[00:07:01] No, I mean, I haven't gotten into all of their books, to be honest, because I was kind of chased away by people poo-pooing them.

[00:07:08] And then I started with, and apparently these are these early prequels, like there's two trilogies and some associated novellas that are set in this part of the timeline 10,000 years before the show.

[00:07:21] And these are all set.

[00:07:22] The show is set like just not long after the end of these prequels.

[00:07:26] So like, yeah, 30 years after the end of the second prequel book or second prequel book in the second trilogy.

[00:07:33] So much lore.

[00:07:36] And then you found that.

[00:07:37] I am absolutely loving this part of the timeline.

[00:07:39] So I'm going to be reading them all.

[00:07:41] And I understand that these are some of the best, but oh my gosh, the like lore and the story.

[00:07:46] And this comes from Frank Herbert's notes.

[00:07:48] Okay.

[00:07:49] Right.

[00:07:49] And then you found that novella that really is a good cornerstone for the Carinos at this stage and sort of where Havico is and his trajectory and positioning.

[00:08:01] So it feels like they are synthesizing a bunch of materials.

[00:08:05] And if you're interested, if you're a real Dune head, I would also plug Alicia's other feed, Wool Shift Dust, because you guys do a little show on there called Dune.

[00:08:16] Wool Shift Dust does Dune.

[00:08:17] And you had a really great episode where you, me, and Luke got to talk, but then you went deep into this novella.

[00:08:22] So if people are really interested in the more foundational material, definitely check out that episode.

[00:08:28] I found it really informative and really insightful.

[00:08:32] Yeah, it's set.

[00:08:33] So it's set after those trilogies I mentioned and before the show.

[00:08:37] So it's set when Havico, Mark Strong's character is 23.

[00:08:41] So that gives you an idea of where it is in the timeline.

[00:08:43] Right.

[00:08:44] So overall, you enjoyed episode one and looking forward to that.

[00:08:47] Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[00:08:48] Like I enjoyed episode one.

[00:08:50] I don't anticipate it's going to be my favorite of the season, but it's definitely got me excited to see what they're setting up.

[00:08:57] And obviously, it has a very intriguing ending.

[00:09:00] Right.

[00:09:00] It does.

[00:09:01] It really does.

[00:09:02] I have some burning questions now.

[00:09:06] For me, the episode did a pretty good job of navigating that extremely difficult path that it has to walk in terms of onboarding all fans.

[00:09:20] Right.

[00:09:20] From the Duneheads, from the deep, deep lore nerds like us to the casual fan that are like, hey, my community or friends or other people are watching this.

[00:09:31] What's this about?

[00:09:32] I enjoyed the Villeneuve movies.

[00:09:33] Let me check out what's going on here.

[00:09:35] And so it's got a ton of work to do for six episodes at a really critical juncture of what's happening in the Imperium.

[00:09:47] So I thought they did a pretty reasonable job.

[00:09:50] And I liked the prologue, if you will, the way that they compressed the early history to establish the current timeline.

[00:09:58] I thought that that was well navigated.

[00:10:01] I found it enjoyable and interesting.

[00:10:04] And I also found it really interesting that a lot of the trailer that we got has a ton of scenes from this episode.

[00:10:14] Right.

[00:10:14] The trailer has some more stuff in it, but a good chunk.

[00:10:17] And I haven't gone back and done a complete analysis.

[00:10:20] But I would say at least 50% of the trailer comes from episode one at a minimum.

[00:10:25] So I kind of feel chagrined because my episode or my trailer breakdown.

[00:10:29] I'm like, oh, wow.

[00:10:31] They really went for it.

[00:10:33] I'm like, oh, did I get anything wrong or right there?

[00:10:35] But we still don't have – because a lot of them come from visions.

[00:10:38] So we still don't exactly know what they are.

[00:10:41] What the visions are, right?

[00:10:42] Your analysis is still very helpful in that regard.

[00:10:44] Packed within – yeah, plans within plans, as someone might say.

[00:10:47] Anyway, I thought it was really interesting, and I noted this in the trailer, but I also noticed this in the show.

[00:10:53] There's a lot of water in this show.

[00:10:55] There's lots of scenes where there's a pool or an ocean or something like that.

[00:10:59] So I thought it was very interesting to contrasting with Arrakis and then that environment, that dry environment that we have.

[00:11:06] So I don't wonder if that's –

[00:11:08] It's the water of life?

[00:11:09] Yes, exactly.

[00:11:13] Something that I saw – there's a whole bunch of stuff, so let me just knock out a couple of things.

[00:11:20] I think the casting and the acting is on point.

[00:11:23] Everybody has been really good.

[00:11:26] The child actors and the flashback actors that they found were all really great.

[00:11:31] The writing has been pretty strong.

[00:11:34] There's nothing that's given me awes, and some of the – there's some really good writing in there as well.

[00:11:39] So we'll see how they go once we get rolling into the episodes.

[00:11:42] I'm happy with the diction.

[00:11:44] I saw on Blue Sky you had a funny comment for me.

[00:11:47] Oh, yeah.

[00:11:47] No, because someone was complaining the opposite of what you said.

[00:11:51] Right.

[00:11:51] They were like, well, why on HBO shows does the upper class always have to sound like posh British,

[00:11:57] and then the lower class is like Cockney or whatever?

[00:11:59] Because for us Yanks, you slap a British accent on, and it's instantly posh.

[00:12:04] Well, I mean, it depends on the British accent is the point.

[00:12:06] Yeah, I know, but it doesn't matter to us.

[00:12:09] It's all the same.

[00:12:10] Anyway, I do have some concerns about what Desmond Hart's powers are, and we're going to get into that.

[00:12:19] I think that's a fake out, yeah.

[00:12:21] Yeah, I'm hoping so.

[00:12:23] We'll see.

[00:12:24] And when we get into the scene by scene, I've got some insights on that,

[00:12:26] because I did my rewatch the other day where I was doing real frame-by-frame analysis.

[00:12:31] Visually, this thing is beautiful.

[00:12:33] They're doing a really nice job with the sets and working with a lot of practical locations,

[00:12:42] and the only time we were getting the CGI stuff is when they really need it,

[00:12:45] like when we're flying in a shuttlecraft or a spaceship is descended through the atmosphere or something like that.

[00:12:50] So that's all good.

[00:12:51] One minor nitpick is how fast Kasha got from Seleuza Secondus to Wallet 9.

[00:12:59] It seemed pretty quick given the events of things, but whatever.

[00:13:04] It's a nitpick.

[00:13:04] I'll go with it.

[00:13:06] And I was really pleased to see that they're doing a lot of visual rhyming as well.

[00:13:11] So when you see Tula and Valia on Wallet 9, there's oftentimes two lights somewhere high up and in the background

[00:13:23] that are very reminiscent of the two blue eyes that we're seeing in these visions.

[00:13:32] And it's in multiple scenes where you see that.

[00:13:36] And every time I see a bright light pointing right at the camera, they're always paired up.

[00:13:41] Maybe they're a little wider apart or a little closer together, but they're there.

[00:13:44] And so they're doing a really nice job in creating a visual weave and a visual rhyme for it.

[00:13:50] So we pick up on those clues subtly and they just lend a nice air to the fact that they're not only foreshadowing things in the dialogue

[00:14:02] and with the plot, with what the characters are doing, but then visually they're doing the same thing.

[00:14:07] And Marvel fans know that's the Watcher.

[00:14:12] Exactly.

[00:14:13] That's true.

[00:14:13] That's true.

[00:14:14] I do think we have an idea who that is, but we'll talk about that at the very end.

[00:14:17] At the very, very, very, very end.

[00:14:20] Yeah.

[00:14:20] Other than that, I feel like they have gotten off on a good start.

[00:14:26] I'm kind of sorry that it's only six episodes, but at the same time, maybe that constraint is going to do a good job

[00:14:32] in terms of having them really focused on what's important so that we've got a lot of propelling plot

[00:14:41] so that we really move through this story.

[00:14:44] But I think, like you said, it feels like they understand their source material and are layering that in so that if you're a casual fan,

[00:14:55] you can watch and you get it.

[00:14:56] It's a political drama.

[00:14:58] There's relationships.

[00:14:59] There's very human relationships going on.

[00:15:01] And then for nerds like us, we can drill down deep and unpack a lot of fun stuff.

[00:15:09] Right.

[00:15:10] Before we get into our scene by scene, let's just unpack again a little bit on the spoiler policy of how we're going to handle this.

[00:15:21] Because this is not a straightforward thing.

[00:15:23] It's a little bit complex.

[00:15:24] So we have one idea of lore versus plot.

[00:15:27] And then you have some notes here about the movies and the original books.

[00:15:32] Right.

[00:15:32] So you want to unpack that a little bit?

[00:15:33] Well, we had a big discussion about this in the Discord.

[00:15:36] We did.

[00:15:38] And so I think what we eventually came to agree is that it's silly for us to do backbends to avoid talking about the original Dune book and the associated movies.

[00:15:50] Just because that's what most people who have watched this show have seen that.

[00:15:54] And, you know, we don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot.

[00:15:57] So, yeah, we can make references to that.

[00:15:59] But we and we can talk about anything from the other books that's already happened on screen.

[00:16:04] Like I mentioned, there's a ski scene from Mentats of Dune in this episode.

[00:16:10] But anything else from the prequel or sequel books that we think might be a spoiler for this show will be discussed in that special book spoiler section after the credits.

[00:16:21] So stick around if you're interested in that stuff.

[00:16:24] But, yeah, otherwise we because there was one specific thing you brought up that we should not bring up from the prequel books.

[00:16:31] And now they kind of they've teased it a bit in this episode.

[00:16:34] And I think you are absolutely right that that's that's going to be a plot point this season.

[00:16:38] Right.

[00:16:39] Even though it's from book set before this.

[00:16:41] Right.

[00:16:42] Cool.

[00:16:43] All right.

[00:16:43] Well, let's take a quick commercial break.

[00:16:45] And then we come back.

[00:16:45] We will get into our detailed scene by scene breakdown.

[00:17:02] And we are back.

[00:17:03] So to set up a little bit of history and context for this story world, this show is taking place 116 years after the Butlerian Jihad.

[00:17:17] That's the war that humans fought to overthrow their robot overlords.

[00:17:22] And it takes place 10,148 years.

[00:17:27] That's very specific before Paul Atreides's birth.

[00:17:31] Right.

[00:17:31] Before he's actually born on Caladan.

[00:17:34] And at this time of the story history, there are the sisterhood is known as the sisterhood, not the Bene Gesserit.

[00:17:43] So the Bene Gesserit, as we know them in the original Frank Herbert books, does not yet exist, even though organizationally, institutionally they exist.

[00:17:52] But they are not fully formed as they are in the late books.

[00:17:56] So do we think that they're going to say the name Bene Gesserit in the finale?

[00:18:00] In my bonus material that I did for subscribers, that is one of my predictions.

[00:18:04] Yes, that this is this and there's another thing that we'll talk about with the Sardaukar that I think this show is going to be bringing those two things forward.

[00:18:16] For our scene by scene breakdown, again, the way that they jumped around on screen was a little difficult to do a full chronological front to back scene by scene.

[00:18:29] So in a couple of places, I've compressed things.

[00:18:31] So if they jump between, say, Wallach 9 and then they jump back to Seleucus 2ndus, for quick little scenes, I will sometimes collapse those into one whole block so we can talk all the way through them and then jump to another one.

[00:18:46] Because sometimes the scene cuts are too quick to actually make them a full of their own section.

[00:18:52] So with that said, the opening quote,

[00:18:56] Victory is celebrated in the light, but it is won in the darkness.

[00:19:00] What did you make of this opening sequence?

[00:19:04] Yeah, I mean, I think I actually, it sounded like something that might come from the prequel book.

[00:19:10] So I actually went searching for it.

[00:19:11] It's not okay.

[00:19:13] But I think that that's, yeah, victory is celebrated in the light, but it is won in the darkness.

[00:19:18] And that is, so we have to, first of all, say that it's Valia Harkonnen, I'm saying her name the Finnish way now.

[00:19:25] Thank you.

[00:19:26] Yes, I've been swayed to Harkonnen as well.

[00:19:28] Yeah.

[00:19:28] Everybody's using it.

[00:19:29] So it was just the 84 movie that got us on, Harkonnen.

[00:19:33] Right.

[00:19:34] And, you know, because Marilyn brought up that it is, that these are Finnish names.

[00:19:38] And indeed, you know, the same way the Atreides can trace their lineage back to ancient Greeks,

[00:19:45] the Harkonnens can trace their lineage back to the Samis of Earth.

[00:19:49] But, yeah, so it's Valia saying this, and you can see that shows her mentality.

[00:19:58] Victory is celebrated in light, but it's won in the darkness.

[00:20:01] Now, I doubt an Atreides would ever say victory is won in the darkness,

[00:20:05] because Atreides are just so very proper.

[00:20:08] They are the Starks of this universe, you know.

[00:20:11] They would never.

[00:20:12] But Valia, she's like, I come from a sidelined family,

[00:20:17] and I've learned that sometimes you have to do things that you don't want other people to know about

[00:20:23] for the greater good, for the greater good, you know.

[00:20:26] And that's certainly something that Frank weaves into his original six books is how political power is wielded.

[00:20:34] What is required to maintain power?

[00:20:38] There is a plot line in the books that involves really adhering to a course of action

[00:20:49] that takes centuries to unfold and to maintain that.

[00:20:55] It takes a lot of force.

[00:20:56] It takes a lot of political will.

[00:20:58] And how you translate that political will into practical action.

[00:21:06] And I'm not advocating this, but the point is that what it might take to exercise that will

[00:21:14] can't happen with, even though it's a means versus the ends argument.

[00:21:22] And I think it really sets us up for that gray morality.

[00:21:25] We've been talking a lot of grays this year, haven't we, in a lot of our shows.

[00:21:29] People need to start to think more in gray morality because I think it's black and white thinking

[00:21:36] that gets us as humans into trouble.

[00:21:38] And I love how visually they go from a black and white version of the scene of these embers

[00:21:45] that are floating up to then transitioning into color.

[00:21:48] And that black and white really reminded me of in the Dune 2 movie when we're on the Harkonnen's

[00:21:54] home world where they, I believe they actually shot that on infrared film to make that really

[00:22:00] wild black and white scene where we see Fade Rautha come into it in his vestiture ceremony

[00:22:07] or his birthday ceremony, I think it was.

[00:22:10] So it was kind of a nice little visual homage there.

[00:22:13] But then in that whole visual element that we have here of these embers rising up,

[00:22:20] not only does it make me think of aftermath of war or battle or destruction,

[00:22:26] which we see some of the scenes in the machine war sequence that's about to come up,

[00:22:31] but it also foreshadows the burning truth that befalls Pruitt and Kasha both at the end of this episode.

[00:22:41] So I thought they did a really nice job in terms of foreshadowing,

[00:22:46] very subtly foreshadowing, but also giving us some visual connectivity to other properties.

[00:22:55] So a bit of a prologue here, a little bit of a compressed history,

[00:23:00] the Butlerian Jihad and the Sisterhood.

[00:23:02] The episode opens with Valya narrating the story of the Butlerian Jihad.

[00:23:07] She explains how the Atreides claimed victory while her great-great-grandfather

[00:23:11] was branded a deserter and a coward.

[00:23:14] Before describing how she joined the Sisterhood, met mother superior Raquel.

[00:23:18] Valya then details the Sisterhood secret breeding program, their hidden genetic archive.

[00:23:25] Do-do-do!

[00:23:27] Dun-dun-dun!

[00:23:27] What did you think of the shots of the machine war?

[00:23:30] I was so excited.

[00:23:32] I saw some people bitching about it online.

[00:23:33] I'm like, are you kidding me?

[00:23:36] I'm like, give me more.

[00:23:37] Sure.

[00:23:39] Yeah, because I love, because when we are first introduced to Dune, the original novel,

[00:23:44] you know, it's 10,000 years after this.

[00:23:46] So all of this stuff is a distant memory.

[00:23:48] And one of the first questions, new people in the Dune-iverse, see, I'm using it now,

[00:23:53] that they ask about is like, well, why aren't there any robots?

[00:23:57] And, you know, Frank Herbert, he detailed, and then his son and writing partner elaborated upon this whole detailed back history about that.

[00:24:08] And I just love that this exists in the same universe as the, I-oh, sorry, Fremen, that we get so much later.

[00:24:18] So, yeah, I was super excited to see this, and I'm living for as many flashbacks as I can fit into this without muddying the waters of the story they're trying to tell in six episodes.

[00:24:30] And a lot of people, I think, rightly pointed to, this is a very Terminator vibe, but then who did it first?

[00:24:37] Okay, well, Frank, or Brian probably wrote the books after the Terminator story was put on film.

[00:24:44] I don't know.

[00:24:46] Well, no, but this is based on Frank Herbert stuff that he wrote in his notes.

[00:24:51] Yeah, going back to the 60s.

[00:24:53] So it's all very, very convoluted.

[00:24:55] But yeah, I totally get the vibe of the Terminator sort of vibe.

[00:24:58] But I think they did a good job to visually capture us, as well as to set the stakes for what was really involved in the Butlerian Jihad

[00:25:09] and what it took humanity to overthrow the robotic overlords.

[00:25:15] And then why the zealotry?

[00:25:17] Why does Natalia later on get really upset when Pruitt has the little robot toy thing?

[00:25:25] Yeah.

[00:25:26] Because humanity had to struggle so hard and overcome so much to defeat the machines,

[00:25:34] that there's a religious zealotry now that has been inculcated throughout society to have revulsion for

[00:25:41] and an avoidance of any sort of AI robotics.

[00:25:46] And to the point of religion, it's actually sort of a religious fervor.

[00:25:50] Right.

[00:25:50] By the way, I just wanted to throw in something that was pointed out in the official HBO podcast for the show,

[00:25:56] is the sisterhood, their distinctive outfit that they wear with the tall hats and everything.

[00:26:03] It looks that way.

[00:26:05] Originally, it was designed that way so they could go out into the universe and fool the machines

[00:26:10] so that at first glance, the machines would not realize they were humans.

[00:26:14] Oh, interesting.

[00:26:15] I hadn't heard that.

[00:26:16] That's interesting.

[00:26:18] Okay.

[00:26:18] All right.

[00:26:19] Hold that fact.

[00:26:20] We'll see.

[00:26:20] I like that.

[00:26:23] What do you make of this?

[00:26:24] There's two quotes that I found really interesting because there's both a personal history with Valia

[00:26:32] as well as a larger theme that they're telling between what is the truth and what is a lie.

[00:26:41] And Valia says at the beginning of her narration,

[00:26:45] what holds more truth, history or prophecy?

[00:26:49] And history, as we know, at least in her telling, and I think we can know in our modern context as well,

[00:26:57] history is not always factually based.

[00:27:02] Facts can be bent and changed over time versus prophecy, which is generally a religious

[00:27:12] originated statement of telling of the future.

[00:27:17] What is yet to come?

[00:27:19] And this is a reality that we're trying to create or bring forth.

[00:27:25] Yeah.

[00:27:25] So I think, again, it's interesting that we're getting this story.

[00:27:30] I mean, it seems like Valia Harkonnen is our main protagonist, it seems.

[00:27:39] Yeah.

[00:27:40] And so we're, again, we're getting this from her perspective.

[00:27:43] And if you look at her history, I think we're going to talk about the Harkonnen-Atreides feud more in a second.

[00:27:50] But as she says at the beginning, you know, the Atreides, well, I mean, it's always, it's complex anyway.

[00:27:58] But from her perspective, the Atreides have maligned her great-grandfather and thus maligned their family.

[00:28:06] And this meant that her family was banished to this cold backwater planet called Lankyphil.

[00:28:13] And so to her, history is something that she wants to forget.

[00:28:18] She wants people to forget it so that her family can be prominent again, you know, and not have this shame hanging over their heads.

[00:28:25] Whereas as the head of the sisterhood, prophecy is something that she can control.

[00:28:30] She can't control history, but she feels like she might be able to control the future.

[00:28:35] So I can understand why she wants to believe there's more truth in what she says is true rather than what other people like the Atreides have written down in books.

[00:28:47] And I think this is interesting too, because later Tula says to Valia, oh, allegiance to the sisterhood or the allegiance to you?

[00:28:58] Because Valia really has compressed herself into the sisterhood.

[00:29:02] She is the guiding principle of the sisterhood at this stage.

[00:29:06] And her personal truth about her family's history and the sisterhood's truth as an institution to guide and shape the universe have really fused at this point into one thing.

[00:29:17] So, you know, where does Valia begin and where does she end and where does the sisterhood begin?

[00:29:23] I think that's an interesting question.

[00:29:26] And then that gets us into the whole sort of, as Luke said on your podcast, eugenics curious elements of this storyline.

[00:29:35] And we get this line about those who rule require more than guidance.

[00:29:41] They require transformation.

[00:29:44] And so this, again, brings into what Frank Herbert was writing about in terms of politics and how politics are executed.

[00:29:52] And so if we look at the great schools, mentats as being computers, guild navigators or guild, the guild being these, you know, navigators, these kinds of computers as well.

[00:30:04] Sook doctors with their medical knowledge.

[00:30:06] One of the things that the Bene Gesserit were all about was understanding political power and how to wield political power.

[00:30:14] And then they use quasi-religious institutions to be able to affect that.

[00:30:19] And so then that gets us.

[00:30:21] At the same time, though, they're very interested in the survival of the human race as a species, as an organism in the universe.

[00:30:30] And this is also a deep topic, lore topic within the Frank Herbert books, is where do we go as humanity?

[00:30:37] Where do we go forward?

[00:30:38] And so the Bene Gesserit and the sisterhood at this early stage have begun a deep, deep project looking at humanity and looking at how do we shape, literally shape humanity through a breeding program, which is a very scary and loaded word from our modern context.

[00:30:59] Because eugenics is a thing that has caused a lot of pain and suffering and is kind of ugly in our modern context.

[00:31:10] Right. Yeah.

[00:31:11] Yeah. And so I have to say, when they brought up the secret project and we've seen like Valia and especially like go through a door, but they never show us what's on the other side of the door.

[00:31:22] We're going to talk about that at the very end, but just noticing.

[00:31:28] Yeah, they do a really good job, right?

[00:31:29] There's like this hidden lock and you have to have this little special key and yeah.

[00:31:34] And I think if I didn't like, if I weren't waiting from like, what's on the other side of the door, I might not have, because it seems like a natural place to cut.

[00:31:40] Like, oh, they mentioned eugenics, but no, they're cutting every time they show going through the door and they cut.

[00:31:45] So they're hiding something.

[00:31:48] One thing I wanted to point out from that, the, the will shift dust episode that you referenced, the prep episode is I said something about the sisterhood school being on Rossac.

[00:31:57] Um, but actually I need to point out, make a correction that actually it was previously on Rossac, which is this planet that is, um, it has cliffs where the school was and they inherited this space from the sorceresses who existed before, but they kind of died out.

[00:32:14] Um, but the jungles there were just heavily poisonous.

[00:32:20] It's like really Australia on steroids.

[00:32:23] Everything's trying to kill you.

[00:32:25] And, and so they, this ended up being a plague site.

[00:32:28] So they ended up having to move to, so Wallach nine where they are now, where we see them in this show, this is the more hospitable planet than the planet they were on previously.

[00:32:39] So just pointing that out.

[00:32:40] And I'll just highlight quickly that for Herbert in his original writing, ecology and the interaction of ecology with culture is a very potent topic that he digs into.

[00:32:52] And he's very much looking at that.

[00:32:54] How are we affected by our environment?

[00:32:56] So if you're interested in those kinds of questions, definitely read the appendices of the Dune novel of the original Dune books.

[00:33:05] So as we, as I was doing the outline the other day, one of the things that kind of came up is, is like, there's these little lore nuggets that are come up in these scenes.

[00:33:15] And so what I've done is, uh, you know, we'll have our little bullet points for what we wanted to pick out from a scene, but then I've kind of set aside lore details where we can just talk briefly about lore and unpack a little bit of that.

[00:33:29] So that we're building a, we have a lot of exposition to go through on this show.

[00:33:34] And so it, it will help a little bit, I think for folks, if they get a wider sense of, of that.

[00:33:40] So it, from this very beginning here between the jihad and the early stages of the sisterhood, we have the Harkonnens and the Atreides and their feud.

[00:33:49] We have the, uh, history of the Harkonnens actually on Lonky Vale.

[00:33:54] We have this concept of truth sayers.

[00:33:57] And then obviously we have the, the concept of the Butlerian jihad, which we sort of already talked about.

[00:34:03] Um, so the Atreides Harkonnens feud forms the basis of the, uh, first book primarily.

[00:34:10] And then the Dune one and two Villeneuve movies.

[00:34:13] And it's always hinted at, and in this show, it's still hinted at, but they're giving us the specific point in time prior to this of why that, um, feud occurs.

[00:34:26] And I believe in the Brian Herbert, uh, extended universe books, they go into it even more about how that actually happens.

[00:34:34] Yeah.

[00:34:34] I mean, in the prequel books, they, there's a whole, you know, as we, we had Valia refer back to this, where her great grandfather, Abelard was actually, he was a close friend and, and his mentor was Vorian Atreides, who's an important Atreides.

[00:34:51] And, um, at the battle, they had a difference in opinion on how to conduct the battle.

[00:34:57] And both of them were coming from a place of, we want to save as many people as possible, but they ended up in working against each other.

[00:35:04] A lot more people died.

[00:35:06] And the heart Harkonnen Abelard, he's the one who got blamed.

[00:35:10] And basically Vorian stepped in and said, um, you are, he said, let's call him a coward and exile him rather than kill him.

[00:35:20] So he's like trying to help him.

[00:35:20] But of course, from Valia's perspective, she's like, we ended up on this shithole planet because of the Atreides.

[00:35:26] So that's her takeaway.

[00:35:27] But since then, you know, I won't go into all the events, but a lot of events have happened back and forth between the families since then that just keep making this whole feud worse.

[00:35:36] Reminds me a little bit of House of the Dragon where the two girls, uh, uh, Rhaenyra and, um, Alicent just can't, they can't ever get on the right side of each other again.

[00:35:47] Once they're separated, they keep hurting each other intentionally and unintentionally.

[00:35:52] And it just continues to spiral.

[00:35:54] So I think that's the same thing here with, uh, the Harkonnens and the Atreides.

[00:35:58] Yeah.

[00:35:59] There is this, uh, concept of truth saying, and obviously this episode deals with a lot of that.

[00:36:03] Wait, can I just say about, about the Harkonnens, uh, before we move on is that, so they, in order to claw their way back, like Valia and her brother who, RIP, his name is Griffin.

[00:36:14] That's why their house has a Griffin emblem.

[00:36:16] Um, but they had this whole plan to like bring them back from exile and their plan involved a lot.

[00:36:24] Uh, their one export that they have on their planet is beyond ducks, whale fur.

[00:36:29] Okay.

[00:36:30] And so that's why later on in this episode, there's a Harkonnen, Harold Harkonnen, who's trying to sell whale fur to the court.

[00:36:37] And whale seed, but.

[00:36:39] Yeah, whale seed.

[00:36:40] I mean, you work with what you got.

[00:36:42] That's right.

[00:36:44] So truth sayers, this is an interesting concept.

[00:36:46] Uh, this is later on in the books.

[00:36:48] This becomes, um, not a separate thing, but just part of, uh, the Bene Gesserit offerings to the universe.

[00:36:55] And that is if you're in a negotiation, which we see in, uh, this, you have a truth sayer who can, uh, validate what somebody is saying.

[00:37:04] Uh, because the information spread of the universe, people everywhere, all kinds of things.

[00:37:09] How do I know you've got whales, you know, whale fur on your planet?

[00:37:12] How do I validate that?

[00:37:14] There's no way for me to, you know, go somewhere unless you've already shipped it and it gets really complex.

[00:37:19] So having a truth sayer, somebody who can actually, uh, you can rely and depend upon.

[00:37:24] Now, truth saying, as we see in this episode relies very much on observing human physiology and being able to see when somebody is, when their, when their body is rejecting the lie.

[00:37:38] And so the sisterhood sees that they can, they, what they've done is they've commodified truth.

[00:37:45] In fact, and they have put themselves in as brokers of what is true by having truth sayers.

[00:37:51] And now the truth sayers have to show some kind of allegiance to whomever they're working for, just like a maester might have to show, uh, some short-term political allegiance to, uh, the lords that they're serving.

[00:38:03] But at the same time, they serve, uh, the common good, which is, you know, keeping the whole system running.

[00:38:10] Right.

[00:38:10] Right.

[00:38:10] So we see the hand talk between them, which shows like that they seem to have more loyalty to each other than the people they appear to be serving.

[00:38:17] Exactly.

[00:38:18] And so that sets up a big tension, uh, going forward as well.

[00:38:21] So let's move on to, uh, Raquel's death, um, jumping back 30 years from the current time with Raquel dying, the power struggle between Valia and Raquel's granddaughter, Dorothea.

[00:38:33] They argue over the breeding program, which Dorothea sees as heresy.

[00:38:37] Raquel has an ominous vision of Tyrion Arfel showing the destruction that Reverend Mother Kasha interprets as a tyrant's coming judgment later.

[00:38:51] Raquel chooses Valia as her successor over her granddaughter.

[00:38:55] And then Valia uses what we come to understand is the voice to, uh, force Dorothea to end her own life.

[00:39:06] And then, uh, Valia is able to take the Reverend Mother position and guide the sisterhood going forward.

[00:39:13] There's a lot there as well.

[00:39:15] What do you, what do you think of this little sequence?

[00:39:18] Um, yeah, I mean, I, I'm very intrigued by this whole, you will be the one to see the burning truth and know, because of course the episode ends with something that looks very Bernie.

[00:39:31] Um, so curious if there's a link there, I think it's, so Dorothea.

[00:39:39] Yeah.

[00:39:39] Is, is the granddaughter of Raquel, but, um, it there's, yeah.

[00:39:45] But Valia is really Raquel's, uh, like spiritual, you know, offspring, scion.

[00:39:54] Right.

[00:39:54] Yeah.

[00:39:56] Uh, so it is, does create an interesting tension between them because Dorothea, she, this is elaborated more and more in the books.

[00:40:02] I won't get too into it just in case they do here, but Dorothea becomes more, she becomes a zealot.

[00:40:07] You know, we see her praying in this episode.

[00:40:09] We see her using, people are complaining by the way that, uh, the technology hasn't changed, but they are using books on paper, which is not something you see later.

[00:40:17] So there we go.

[00:40:18] Right.

[00:40:19] Um, but of course I still use, uh, books on paper and writing, you know, because it's really convenient.

[00:40:24] It is a durable technology.

[00:40:27] I have a whole bunch of spiral bound notebooks that I take over where, but it's not notes, but over 10,000 years books decay.

[00:40:34] And that's true.

[00:40:35] Yeah.

[00:40:36] So they, they come up with even like in the original doom book, they talk about an old sort of advanced microfiche technology that's already old by then.

[00:40:45] And so there's obviously a lot of advancement in that front, but here, yeah, you can see they want the paper.

[00:40:49] They want, you know, right.

[00:40:50] Right.

[00:40:51] Nothing, nothing mechanical, but yeah, just the tension.

[00:40:53] Right.

[00:40:54] It's a reaction to the jihad.

[00:40:56] Right.

[00:40:56] Just the tension that's set up there.

[00:40:58] And this shows that, you know, the sisterhood, they may be doing their eugenics curious program, but they, this is not a monarchy.

[00:41:06] This is not, you know, they, this is, uh, this, they are passing this, um, the leadership on based on ideas.

[00:41:15] Rather than bloodlines.

[00:41:16] And it's sort of determined in Valia taking the reins there and making that happen.

[00:41:21] And that sets a precedent precedence.

[00:41:23] Keep pushing the boundaries of what it means to be human.

[00:41:28] And, uh, so this idea that the sisterhood has a grander plan for humanity and that they really need to take power.

[00:41:37] And I thought it was also interesting that we get this idea of when Valia is sitting around the pool with some of our sisters.

[00:41:50] I don't know if you noticed, but the water's rippling.

[00:41:52] Like they're actually, as they're moving, they're actually causing the water to ripple.

[00:41:56] So that was a nice little foreshadowing, interesting thing.

[00:41:59] But then when she goes into the room where Raquel is dying, those sisters are, as you said, are reading paper books.

[00:42:06] And she says, those prayers aren't going to help her.

[00:42:09] And I really thought that that was an interesting thing of this idea of prayer versus action.

[00:42:15] We're setting up these two different things.

[00:42:17] Here are a bunch of sisters who are actually trying to affect the world with their actions, where here's another group of sisters who are in contemplation in a kind of meditation and are hoping for something to happen.

[00:42:32] And so it's this idea of action versus, I don't want to say passivity, but hope.

[00:42:40] Hope is a great emotional thing, but it's not action, right?

[00:42:43] And so they're really showing us that Valia is a woman of action.

[00:42:48] And I think it's interesting that we see her conspiring with some other young sisters.

[00:42:53] And one of them is her sister, Tula.

[00:42:55] That makes sense.

[00:42:56] Another is Kasha, who we see later as the imperial truth sayer.

[00:43:01] So they obviously got her into a good position.

[00:43:03] And the third is a woman named Francesca.

[00:43:06] And we haven't seen much from Francesca yet, but can I read this bit from the promotional materials?

[00:43:12] Sure, go for it.

[00:43:12] So the way that they have listed her character, HBO, says, strong, intelligent, and alluring, Sister Francesca leaves a lasting impression in her wake.

[00:43:23] Once a great love of the emperor, her return to the palace strains the balance of power in the capital.

[00:43:29] So we see all these conspirators wound up around the emperor because they have this plan.

[00:43:36] We're going to get a sister on the throne.

[00:43:38] Right, which is very interesting because later in the books, the sisterhood chooses to not take active power.

[00:43:46] They choose specifically to stay in the shadows.

[00:43:50] So that is interesting.

[00:43:52] I'm like, hmm, I'm starting to think about that a little bit more now.

[00:43:55] Might something go wrong here.

[00:43:56] Yeah, exactly.

[00:43:59] Should we talk a little bit about Tyrion Arrphel?

[00:44:03] This prophecy that Raquel has that she uses to impel Valia forward.

[00:44:13] The word Arrphel has deep lore meaning.

[00:44:17] We're going to put that at the very end.

[00:44:19] But what do you make on screen?

[00:44:20] What do we have?

[00:44:23] I mean, I think I'm going to let you take this one because you decide where the line is between what's been shown and what is a spoiler.

[00:44:30] From a narrative standpoint, it's good to set up tension for the show because now we have a time clock, if you will, or something that's coming in to pressurize the situation.

[00:44:44] We hear Raquel talking about red dust.

[00:44:46] It's coming.

[00:44:47] We get a flash of when we go into her eye, when we zoom in, I did a frame by frame.

[00:44:53] There was like a blue watery substance that sort of passes in front of her iris.

[00:45:00] So that's interesting because if we've seen the movies, we know that the water of life is colored blue and that has to go with the eyes of the Abad and the blue eyes.

[00:45:09] We'll talk about that later because we're going to talk about Michaela, who's a friend character in this.

[00:45:14] So lots of portent, right?

[00:45:17] Signs and portents that are coming.

[00:45:22] And I'm trying to think of here what else to say.

[00:45:25] I just think it's interesting that the prophecy versus truth, right?

[00:45:30] She, Valia uses prophecy now as her truth.

[00:45:33] And at the end of this episode, some kind of truth emerges out of that, this burning truth, watching her sister Kasha die.

[00:45:45] So, you know, and then she uses that as a, oh, wow, this is, this is the moment.

[00:45:50] This is our reckoning.

[00:45:52] And this idea that there, you know, truth may lay in prophecy, but also, you know, use every tool that you have available to you.

[00:46:04] And yes, they're going to get judged for this later on.

[00:46:10] Big time in the, in the books.

[00:46:12] So, yeah, there's, there's, there's a lot to unpack there.

[00:46:16] What did you make of the voice and how they, well, they're giving us the origin of the voice.

[00:46:20] I thought it was very interesting.

[00:46:22] Yeah.

[00:46:22] So if you read the prequel books, you will see Valia over time develop, you know, discovering this, which is like, oh, wait, interesting.

[00:46:30] If I do picture like this and da, da, da.

[00:46:32] And then also, yeah, like I said, this is from this, this whole scene where she gets, where she gets Dorothea to off herself.

[00:46:41] That comes from Mentats of Dune, which is the second book in the Great Schools trilogy from the end of that book.

[00:46:49] And, and that's indeed where she first, like, really, it's a moment of desperation for her.

[00:46:54] She's like, oh, this woman's going to ruin everything, you know?

[00:47:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:47:29] She's like, oh, this woman's going to ruin everything.

[00:47:30] And in the movies, or smaller big screen, we need a way to communicate that people are doing something.

[00:47:44] And in the books, there is no deeper resonating voice.

[00:47:48] It's not all magical.

[00:47:49] It's not like I'm talking in a wizard voice or something like that.

[00:47:53] What I've done is I've simply observed you very deeply.

[00:47:57] And this goes into the truth sense thing, being able to observe the human condition and the physiology of another human being so closely that you can tell whether they're lying or telling the truth.

[00:48:06] Right?

[00:48:06] And you can understand their psychology even at a deeper level and basically incept an idea straight into their brain by using tonality and phrases that bypass the frontal cortex, I guess you could say.

[00:48:24] Maybe we need Nicole from Nevermind the Music to help us here.

[00:48:28] Hey, I studied psychology.

[00:48:29] Okay, sorry.

[00:48:30] I don't mean to knock you.

[00:48:31] I'm just trying to promote them a little bit.

[00:48:34] But that somebody can say something that can go straight into your brain and you don't have the intellectual capability to argue with that thought or that word.

[00:48:49] And so, but on screen, again, we have to show it in a different way.

[00:48:53] So, the voice, you say this is also in the books that it's Valya canonically who discovers the voice?

[00:49:00] Right, right.

[00:49:00] Yeah.

[00:49:00] Like I said, you see this whole, this setup happening.

[00:49:04] You know, they have time to build it where you can see like her starting to realize it and experiment with it.

[00:49:08] And then this is the big moment it comes through.

[00:49:10] And I should also point out, and this was confirmed in the official podcast, that Dorothea, on the other hand, is the one who discovered Truth Sense.

[00:49:18] Okay.

[00:49:19] Interesting.

[00:49:19] So, these two characters are reading.

[00:49:21] So, Dorothea developed reading and Valya developed commanding.

[00:49:25] Interesting.

[00:49:26] That's great.

[00:49:27] We've talked about paper books a bunch as well, and I think that's a wink and a nod.

[00:49:32] At one point, when Dorothea is searching her grandmother's office, she puts her hand on a big book.

[00:49:39] And that has to be a copy of the Orange Catholic Bible, which is a deep lore topic as well.

[00:49:45] Basically, a bunch of people in the universe tried to like solve religious fighting by creating a single ecumenical text that brings in all these truths.

[00:49:56] And of course, it's like the Esperanto of religion.

[00:50:00] I like that.

[00:50:02] Yes.

[00:50:02] It is like Esperanto of religion.

[00:50:04] And of course, it has opposite effects.

[00:50:06] It actually drives people further apart from each other rather than bringing them together.

[00:50:10] But that was a nice little nod.

[00:50:12] And I think we should also mention the sign language.

[00:50:18] And there's something in the books which I haven't gone back to relook at, but there's a language called Chokbosa, which is used a lot in the books that the sisters use to have secret verbal communication.

[00:50:31] And it's a language of hunting and it's a language of action and things.

[00:50:40] But then they also develop the sign language, which we see.

[00:50:43] And you've got a note here about maiden hand talk.

[00:50:46] Yeah.

[00:50:46] Well, it just I mean, so Wheel of Time, which, you know, can help bringing up whenever possible.

[00:50:52] Because Jordan pulled a bunch, right?

[00:50:54] Right.

[00:50:54] It's heavily influenced by this.

[00:50:56] And so maiden hand talk is used in that.

[00:50:58] And that was the first thing I thought of when I saw these sisters, you know, doing sign language to each other.

[00:51:02] But I have to bring up the.

[00:51:05] No, I can't actually.

[00:51:06] That's something from the second season of Silo.

[00:51:07] But maybe they'd use hand talk, too.

[00:51:10] Okay.

[00:51:13] Right.

[00:51:13] Well, let's jump up to present day watch nine where Mother Superior.

[00:51:19] Oh, wait.

[00:51:19] Before you.

[00:51:20] I just want to say.

[00:51:21] Yes.

[00:51:22] Before you move on that.

[00:51:23] The funeral rituals.

[00:51:25] Oh, right.

[00:51:26] That it's very much giving Conclave.

[00:51:29] And anyone who hasn't seen Conclave, I recommend seeing it in the theater because it is just a visual feast and preview for next year's Oscar coverage.

[00:51:38] It's going to be a big player in the Oscars for sure.

[00:51:40] Okay, cool.

[00:51:41] Yeah, I was looking at it trying to see if I can work my schedule to go see it in the theater.

[00:51:45] I think you in particular would.

[00:51:47] I would love to hear your feedback on it.

[00:51:49] I think you'd like it.

[00:51:50] Great.

[00:51:50] And I know Marilyn was interested in where.

[00:51:51] Yeah, Marilyn.

[00:51:52] And you said Anthony, right?

[00:51:53] Yeah, yeah.

[00:51:54] I want Anthony to see it, but I'm not sure if he's where he's at with that.

[00:51:57] Didn't he?

[00:51:58] Didn't he?

[00:51:58] He messaged and said he was like in the theater to see it.

[00:52:01] Oh, I think so.

[00:52:02] Oh, that's right.

[00:52:02] He was.

[00:52:02] You're right.

[00:52:03] You're right.

[00:52:03] Okay.

[00:52:04] Anyway, present day Wallach nine, Mother Superior Valia has grown the sisterhood's influence over the 30 years.

[00:52:10] On Wallach nine, they prepare for princesses Inez's arrival and long-term training to secure her allegiance before she takes the throne.

[00:52:20] Several scenes show the sisters practicing martial arts and learning various skills and techniques.

[00:52:27] Tula leads the sisters in a lesson about lies and truth sense.

[00:52:31] And then the sisters are given a practical test in lie detection.

[00:52:35] And sister Jen mixes truth and lies to tell a story about her past.

[00:52:39] Sister Lila is not easily fooled.

[00:52:42] So this is one of these scenes where I've compressed several jumps.

[00:52:46] Is it?

[00:52:47] And it's just easy to talk about one go.

[00:52:49] Is it Lila or Lila?

[00:52:51] Lila or Lila?

[00:52:52] I'm not sure.

[00:52:52] Lila?

[00:52:53] Okay.

[00:52:53] I was saying Lila, but maybe, yeah.

[00:52:55] Okay.

[00:52:55] Yeah.

[00:52:56] Yeah.

[00:52:57] Anyway, I'll listen more closely next time.

[00:53:00] So my first question, I said I much?

[00:53:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:53:05] Yeah.

[00:53:05] Wheel of time, definitely.

[00:53:08] Yeah.

[00:53:08] I mean, I said I definitely based on the Benicent Jezeret.

[00:53:11] Yeah.

[00:53:11] And then you've got a note here about white matter or prefrontal cortex.

[00:53:15] This is really interesting stuff.

[00:53:17] Yeah.

[00:53:17] So they're giving a lesson and she's saying that when you have a lot of white matter in the prefrontal cortex,

[00:53:26] this is a sign that someone's a pathological liar or can be.

[00:53:30] You know, I think they made it sound more definite than it is.

[00:53:32] But that sent me down on a rabbit hole on very real research in our world into this from like the National Institute of Health, among other things.

[00:53:42] So, yeah, it is based on, not everyone agrees, but it's based on science, actually.

[00:53:48] It's not just the eugenics curious side.

[00:53:51] Right.

[00:53:52] And we'll talk about it again in just a second here about the lie and what a lie is.

[00:53:59] And I noticed in the beginning of the scene when the sisters are training and they're showing us around the courtyard here, we're seeing the waters rippling on the surface of the pool like somebody's throwing stones in, which is a very Benicent Jezeret sort of thing.

[00:54:13] Sort of, you know, a small action here ripples out across time and space.

[00:54:18] And I think Frank even uses a bunch of that language in the original six books.

[00:54:23] So nice, nice little homage there.

[00:54:26] What's with, do you have any idea why their, how Sarkonnen is being denied a truth sayer?

[00:54:32] So, yeah, so Valya, she's approached and some houses are asking for truth sayers and I guess they just don't have enough train to go around.

[00:54:40] So Valya says, okay.

[00:54:41] So Valya says, say yes to House Varric.

[00:54:44] Kumali will have to wait.

[00:54:45] And then to Harkonnen, she very noticeably says, say no a fourth time.

[00:54:49] And I have two possible theories about this.

[00:54:51] One is maybe she doesn't want her family to be caught up in her drama.

[00:54:59] She's creating herself.

[00:55:00] The second is based on that story that I talked about in the Will Shift Dust prep episode that's in the other feed, the Will Shift Dust feed of the Imperial Court.

[00:55:12] And like I said, that's set before this show.

[00:55:16] However, it was only released in 2022.

[00:55:18] So I don't know how much, I'll bring up something else that I wonder if partially is pulling from the same source.

[00:55:23] But within that, there is strife within the Harkonnen household itself.

[00:55:29] So if that is part of the backstory of this show, now the Baron now is called Baron Harrow, which is not the problematic Baron at the end of that story was named Gerhard.

[00:55:42] So I don't know if there is a similar source to that, but it could be that I'll just say Gerhard did something to Valiya's brother.

[00:55:54] Okay.

[00:55:54] So I don't know.

[00:55:56] It could be internal strife within the house, or it could be trying to protect the house from the meddling of the, I was going to say Aes Sedai, of the sisterhood.

[00:56:05] Right.

[00:56:06] Where she's waiting, she's holding them back intentionally until other circumstances are more ripe for them to leap forward.

[00:56:14] Right.

[00:56:15] Plans within plans.

[00:56:16] A man with no purpose devises only mischief.

[00:56:21] Emmeline says this when she sees Constantine Carino walking through the library.

[00:56:30] And we get this indication that Inez is going to be coming for 10 years of training.

[00:56:38] And then we have this little scene where Valiya and Constantine have this little interaction, which I think really illuminates their characters, where he's very playful and irreverent.

[00:56:48] Oh, I'm just going to try, see if I can lie to a mother superior.

[00:56:53] And Valiya just suffers no fools.

[00:56:55] She's like, why did you even try, dude?

[00:56:58] It wasn't even funny.

[00:56:59] That's very cute, Prince Link.

[00:57:01] Yeah, exactly.

[00:57:03] So then we get this, we jump scenes a little bit, and then we get this thing where Tula is giving a lesson about lying.

[00:57:12] And I just love this line, humanity's greatest weapon is the lie.

[00:57:17] It's also how we hurt ourselves, but yep.

[00:57:19] Yeah, and we lie to ourselves.

[00:57:21] And I had that question later on.

[00:57:23] I think we hurt ourselves by lying to each other too, but yeah.

[00:57:26] Well, yeah, that too.

[00:57:29] The later on, I even was wondering whether Valiya was lying to herself when she's rejecting Kasha's message, but then Valiya says, no, I heard what she said, and then I rejected it.

[00:57:40] And so, but what lies is Valiya telling herself to maintain her power?

[00:57:47] That's an interesting question.

[00:57:48] But anyway, back to this idea of truth sense, the show is educating us about truth sense and truth and lie, and that the body rejects the lie.

[00:57:57] What are the signs and symptoms of somebody who's trying to lie?

[00:58:02] You know, sweat, nervous tics, elevated heart rate, all of these kinds of things.

[00:58:07] And I think you had mentioned when we talked before about like, if you try to defeat a lie detector machine, which is measuring a bunch of, yeah, polygraph, measuring a bunch of physiological responses.

[00:58:21] You have to believe in what you say.

[00:58:24] So it's like a meta lie, right?

[00:58:27] You have to change your perception of reality and alter the facts from your point of view and believe those altered facts.

[00:58:35] And later we see Kasha when she's doing some, you know, truth saying for the emperor, she says to him, he says, is this true?

[00:58:44] And she says, he believes it's true.

[00:58:46] Exactly.

[00:58:48] So Valiya says application is what distinguishes a sister.

[00:58:52] So then we get that, that practical test later on.

[00:58:55] But at the same time, we get this admonition of saying that you must first exert power over yourself.

[00:59:01] Your mind and body must be within your control.

[00:59:04] Only then can you discern the truth.

[00:59:08] And that very much goes into the abilities of the Bene Gesserit.

[00:59:12] This is one of those little lore nuggets.

[00:59:14] So this brings up this idea that Frank Herbert goes into detail in the six books that he wrote about prana bindu training.

[00:59:22] And this is the ability for a sister to have total control of every single muscle and nerve in their body so that that mind-body connection is fully available to them.

[00:59:40] Yeah, like you were saying before, people who practice yogic traditions will be familiar with this.

[00:59:47] People who practice martial arts will be familiar with this, of really developing and accentuating that mind-over-body connection.

[00:59:56] And there's this great quote that I pulled.

[01:00:00] It's more of a part of a description from the Wikipedia stuff.

[01:00:04] And this quote is from the books, but then an explanation.

[01:00:08] My mind affects my reality.

[01:00:09] A practitioner of the art has to know that the action he or she wants to perform has already been performed.

[01:00:19] For example, imagine oneself being behind an opponent at the current moment in time.

[01:00:24] When trained well, this knowledge will place you at the spot desired.

[01:00:28] To anyone witnessing, it's almost appearing as if the combatant has teleported.

[01:00:35] So this idea that you can move faster than any other person can because you've trained your body to sort of go,

[01:00:46] oh, I want to be there, and poof, you're there.

[01:00:47] So Herbert really focused in on practice.

[01:00:54] There's no teleporters or things that are not, that Herbert doesn't deal with in here, no aliens.

[01:01:02] And he tried to very much think about physiology and science and physics and then see like,

[01:01:11] well, what could we do as a species to advance that to in 10,000 years, what would that be like?

[01:01:17] So I feel like Frank Herbert, that he heard that whole concept about, what did they say?

[01:01:22] Like you only use 20% of your brain, which by the way, is very misleading the way that it's used in popular culture.

[01:01:30] But I feel like he heard this concept and it just got his brain going.

[01:01:34] And he's like, well, what if people weren't relying on these machines

[01:01:38] and were just cultivating their greatest possibilities themselves?

[01:01:43] Exactly.

[01:01:44] Like what is still available with us within it?

[01:01:46] Because there are our intellect and our physiology.

[01:01:51] At some point, there is a, you know, I don't think about moving my hand or clicking the record button,

[01:01:57] but yet it happens.

[01:01:58] And what if you could have that intentionality between what your mind thinks and your body does?

[01:02:03] And that's what the sisterhood also excels at is being able to develop that connection.

[01:02:11] So a couple of other things that we want to talk about here.

[01:02:16] You've got a note here about Constantine negotiating Inez.

[01:02:19] Oh, yeah.

[01:02:21] I enjoyed that whole scene about Constantine negotiating with Valya about Inez joining the school.

[01:02:29] Just because I think that that was, they presented him as if he was going to be this very serious character.

[01:02:34] And then he's like, ah, just kidding.

[01:02:35] So we see his personality.

[01:02:37] But it also reminded me, of course, I have to bring up Wheel of Time again.

[01:02:40] And Elaine Tricond going to the White Tower, if you know, you know.

[01:02:44] Right.

[01:02:44] And I also just thought it was-

[01:02:46] A royal person going in, yeah, to a lift thing.

[01:02:49] And I thought it was, but also just that it was the negotiating about how much luxury she gets to have,

[01:02:55] how much privacy, things like that.

[01:02:56] But also I love the bit about with the young sisters,

[01:02:59] or I guess they were acolytes who were lusting over Constantine.

[01:03:01] I feel like that's going to come back.

[01:03:03] For sure.

[01:03:06] So a couple of lore bits.

[01:03:07] We talked about Pranabindu.

[01:03:09] We've already talked about Truthsend, so we'll kind of skip that.

[01:03:12] A couple of other things that came up, the Golden Lion Throne is something that's mentioned by Constantine.

[01:03:18] And that is the name of the Emperor's Throne.

[01:03:22] And you've got a note here about the House Corino and the Battle of Corrin.

[01:03:27] Right.

[01:03:28] So the name of Havico's house is Corino, and it comes from what we saw at the beginning of the episode.

[01:03:36] We saw the robot battle.

[01:03:37] That's called the Battle of Corrin, and that is the battle that ended that great war against the thinging machines.

[01:03:43] And so we've been referring to the Butlerian jihad, and Butler was the last name of this house before.

[01:03:52] They're actually descended from Harkonnens also, but they took the Butler side, the mother's side,

[01:03:58] because there was also more Harkonnen controversy back then.

[01:04:02] Okay.

[01:04:03] But they dropped the name Butler for other reasons having to do with this jihad and everything,

[01:04:08] but took the name Corino to remind people we are the ones who won the Battle of Corrin.

[01:04:15] We are the ones who saved humanity.

[01:04:17] That's really interesting because later Natalia, the Queen, says, the Empress, sorry,

[01:04:24] says that you would not be here but for what we did, right?

[01:04:29] Right.

[01:04:29] But for us defeating the thinking machine.

[01:04:31] So that actually has an extra spin now that you mentioned that comment.

[01:04:34] So that's really cool.

[01:04:36] And then we see signet rings and a seal.

[01:04:42] So very much hearkening back to European history, and I'm not sure where else seals might have been used.

[01:04:49] But with a drop of wax, you seal.

[01:04:52] It's a physical object.

[01:04:53] It's kind of like a two-factor authentication for non-digital ages.

[01:04:59] But Valia uses that ring, and Constantine uses some sort of stamp that he has.

[01:05:04] He doesn't have a ring.

[01:05:06] He's got to use another handheld device, which I don't know if that's intentional or not,

[01:05:13] but he is not an heir apparent.

[01:05:14] He is not in a legitimate line to – I don't like to use the word illegitimate when it comes to children.

[01:05:22] He is not within a line where he can ascend.

[01:05:25] He's from a concubine.

[01:05:26] His mother is a concubine rather than –

[01:05:28] which are concubines have much more official places,

[01:05:31] like Paul Atreides' mother, Jessica, was also a concubine.

[01:05:34] But not the empress.

[01:05:37] Like Natalia.

[01:05:38] I mean, sorry, not the empress, like Inez.

[01:05:42] Right.

[01:05:43] But I was just going to bring up that this whole game of thrones,

[01:05:48] you know, from that universe,

[01:05:51] the game of houses from Wheel of Time,

[01:05:53] definitely all taking that from the Dune world building

[01:05:56] and their lanserads, which is a Dutch word for council of nations, basically.

[01:06:02] Right.

[01:06:02] Exactly.

[01:06:03] And then we see later that the Duke getting Baron Harkonnen in the movies

[01:06:08] trying to get a hold of Paul's ducal signet ring is a big deal.

[01:06:12] So, again, nice little lore bit there.

[01:06:14] So, let's take a little commercial break,

[01:06:17] and then when we come back,

[01:06:18] we will pick up the story with Inez training with swordmaster Kieran Atreides.

[01:06:25] And we're back.

[01:06:38] So, we pick up on Seleuza Secundus,

[01:06:42] a planet which is going to have some importance in the future.

[01:06:46] But for now, we see Inez training with her secret love,

[01:06:50] swordmaster Kieran Atreides.

[01:06:52] She's apprehensive about the arranged marriage,

[01:06:56] but eager to study with the sisterhood.

[01:06:58] And she talks about her bond with Kasha.

[01:07:01] Her brother comes in,

[01:07:02] and the three young people trade a moment.

[01:07:06] So, this is interesting because we have an Atreides

[01:07:10] embedded in the house Karino,

[01:07:12] and Kieran is referred to as the new swordsmaster later on.

[01:07:18] So, he's fulfilling a function or a role within House Karino

[01:07:22] to train their forces,

[01:07:24] to train the princess in hand-to-hand combat.

[01:07:28] Yes.

[01:07:28] I mean, it's interesting just to see that the Atreides are,

[01:07:32] at this point in history,

[01:07:33] they are not the great house that they will be later.

[01:07:37] Mm-hmm.

[01:07:38] That's, you know, they are,

[01:07:39] he's being taken into another household.

[01:07:43] Of course, it's the household.

[01:07:44] It's the imperial household.

[01:07:45] But, yeah.

[01:07:46] Right.

[01:07:47] So, yeah, and it's interesting,

[01:07:49] you know, oh, it's 10,000 years of history,

[01:07:52] and we still have these, you know,

[01:07:53] houses all rolling around each other.

[01:07:55] Yeah, we've got to follow something, I guess.

[01:07:58] I don't know.

[01:07:58] But I think what's interesting later in the books

[01:08:00] is that how House Atreides has risen

[01:08:04] and actually becomes a threat to the emperor,

[01:08:06] and that's the whole plot of the original,

[01:08:09] is the emperor trying to take Atreides out.

[01:08:12] And so, it's interesting that there's an Atreides inside,

[01:08:15] at least at this stage.

[01:08:17] Mm-hmm.

[01:08:18] There was a couple of lines in here,

[01:08:20] the fighting advice,

[01:08:22] the eyes can lie, but the chest cannot.

[01:08:25] Mm-hmm.

[01:08:25] What's in the chest?

[01:08:26] The heart.

[01:08:27] Mm-hmm.

[01:08:27] And if the heart's in conflict with itself,

[01:08:29] you know, you can detect that.

[01:08:31] But I think it's also like the way you're,

[01:08:33] you naturally position your shoulders

[01:08:35] where you want to go before you make the move

[01:08:38] because, yeah, your body's moving

[01:08:39] before your brain registers what you're doing.

[01:09:09] Exactly.

[01:09:11] In the movies?

[01:09:12] Yeah, that technology apparently hasn't advanced

[01:09:14] in 10,000 years.

[01:09:15] Right.

[01:09:15] I think some people have leveled some criticism there

[01:09:18] about that.

[01:09:19] Okay, we're just going to go with it.

[01:09:21] But books, books have totally changed.

[01:09:24] Right.

[01:09:25] Exactly.

[01:09:26] Exactly.

[01:09:27] And that goes into another little lore bit, a couple of lore bits here. Swordmasters. So like Souk Doctors, like Guild Navigators, like Benny Jezzer, like Mentats, there are people who specialize solely in fighting and taking their martial prowess to the furthest degree that they can.

[01:09:48] Something that's really important is this idea of Holtzman Fields.

[01:09:52] Oh, I was just going to say, sorry, that Duncan Idaho played by, what's his face?

[01:09:59] Oh, Jason Momoa in the Villeneuve movies.

[01:10:02] Yeah, he's a sword master. But anyway, sorry.

[01:10:04] Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And Gurney Halleck as well.

[01:10:09] And they train at a special school.

[01:10:12] Right. Just like Mentats or Souk Doctors do.

[01:10:15] And there's this idea that there's a scientist named Holtzman who discovered Holtzman Fields, which is the technology that powers anti-gravity.

[01:10:26] It powers a lot of the spaceflight capabilities.

[01:10:31] And one of the dangerous things in that world is laser beams and shields.

[01:10:40] And if a LAS gun, as is referred to in the books, if a laser beam touches a shield, it sets off a chain reaction that is like a nuclear explosion.

[01:10:53] So very, very bad.

[01:10:54] And that's why hand-to-hand combat is such a thing.

[01:10:58] And they have projectile weapons as well.

[01:11:00] But using laser beams in combination with shields is really a dicey proposition.

[01:11:07] But Holtzman Fields is the technology that powers all of that.

[01:11:11] And that's a whole other topic within the lore.

[01:11:15] I did love Konstantin's little comment when Inez asks him how it was on Wallach 9.

[01:11:24] He says, well, if you're into barren landscapes and minimalism, it's not so bad.

[01:11:29] Yeah, I mean, this is the Wallach 9 is the nicer planet again.

[01:11:33] Exactly.

[01:11:35] Exactly.

[01:11:36] So we see a scene with Havako negotiating with Duke Richese over the dowry of the marriage.

[01:11:47] And Duke Richese is angling for greater control of Arrakis as well as a wing in the palace.

[01:11:55] And we see the two truth sayers communicating with each other about plans within plans.

[01:12:03] Do we know anything about House Richese?

[01:12:05] I don't recognize the name from any of the books.

[01:12:09] No, no.

[01:12:10] And I did like a big names that popped up.

[01:12:13] I did a search in the books just to like check and I couldn't find it anywhere.

[01:12:18] So I think it's just a new house.

[01:12:20] It's a huge galaxy, so I don't blame them for pulling in new.

[01:12:23] Right.

[01:12:24] Yeah.

[01:12:24] And you've got to do that.

[01:12:25] The whole shippy test thing, which is to create extra stuff for this to make the screens work.

[01:12:30] But I guess that's also that's one of the problems, I think, from the original book is that you're given to understand that there's this whole this Lanzarad, this whole council of houses, great houses.

[01:12:40] But then you only really ever learn like four of their names.

[01:12:43] Right.

[01:12:44] Exactly.

[01:12:45] So Ballista Motherships, that's I think a show only invention.

[01:12:50] Frank Herbert never really gets into a lot of those kinds of details.

[01:12:53] I think the only time he talks about specific ships is in the later books with the no ships.

[01:12:58] I mean, I think it's self-explanatory.

[01:12:59] Yeah, that's what I would come up with if I were.

[01:13:01] Right, right.

[01:13:03] And apparently these ships are going to be able to help the Emperor fight back against Fremen and dust storms and the spice, you know, with these ships, the spice will flow.

[01:13:16] Because the dust gets into the ships.

[01:13:18] But then it makes me wonder, like, they don't seem to have these later in the timeline.

[01:13:22] Right.

[01:13:24] And we have some interesting things on the planet there in the movie, in the second movie as well, with weather control.

[01:13:31] And I think this is a good point, too, to bring up the fact that for a lot of our science fiction, especially I think Star Trek heavily affects this, our idea of what a planet is.

[01:13:43] Oh, well, they're just going to beam down to the right exact spot where they sort of need to be.

[01:13:48] And the fact is that the surface of a planet is huge and there's a massive amount of variation.

[01:13:54] And I think it's in Chapter House Dune, one of the later books.

[01:14:00] The story follows the Mother Superior as she's traveling around a planet.

[01:14:05] And how many days it takes just to cross, you know, from one part of a continent to another.

[01:14:10] And it really gives you the sense that planets are big and they're complex and weather control is complex.

[01:14:16] And just because Star Trek says, oh, you beam down to this one spot, we forget the fact that there is a lot more going on.

[01:14:24] The Star Wars-ification of the galaxy where every planet is one climate, okay?

[01:14:28] Exactly, exactly.

[01:14:29] They're getting better at it.

[01:14:30] They're getting better at it.

[01:14:32] So then we get the foreshadowing of the loss of Hart's unit and that Duke Richese mentions that.

[01:14:38] And we get this idea that the Duke is trying to align himself with power, which goes into what Paul says later in the movies.

[01:14:47] You know, he who can destroy a thing controls a thing.

[01:14:50] So the Duke is trying to position himself maybe not to destroy spice, but to control the flow of spice.

[01:14:59] And this really belies the weakness of the Emperor in this moment.

[01:15:03] The Emperor is very, he's not getting the information he needs.

[01:15:07] He's not in control of the situation.

[01:15:09] And as he tells Hart later, you know, I'm in big trouble if I can't keep spice flowing.

[01:15:15] Yeah, and I just want to point out, so we see the sisters doing the hand talk.

[01:15:19] And so we know their true alliance or true honesty, at least, is with each other.

[01:15:23] But I just find it interesting that the truth-sayer for the Richese household is Vera, and that name means truth.

[01:15:30] Oh, interesting.

[01:15:31] That's very cool.

[01:15:34] Okay.

[01:15:35] We get a quick scene now with mother and daughter.

[01:15:38] Natalia helps to prepare Inez for her betrothal ceremony, and they share a mother-daughter moment.

[01:15:44] We learn that Natalia and Haviko were strangers before they wed, and that Inez's betrothal, or betrothed, Pruitt Richese, is a boy of just nine years of age.

[01:15:58] I kind of love how they're flipping the House of the Dragon storyline on its head a little bit with who you marry, when this time it's a young boy instead of a young girl.

[01:16:08] Yeah.

[01:16:10] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:16:13] There's this reference to the veil that Natalia gives to Inez, and she says that it was made by the wanderers of Harmonthe, if I'm saying that right.

[01:16:28] Yeah.

[01:16:29] And so I went on that rabbit hole.

[01:16:33] Okay.

[01:16:35] So, first of all, the veil, we'll bring that back up in our closing section, I think, where I was wondering about this character, Natalia.

[01:16:43] But the Harmonthe part, it seems to be connected with what we call the Zenzuni Wanderers, which are the precursors or rumored precursors.

[01:16:55] These are actually from the, this is from like the sequel original books.

[01:16:59] Right.

[01:17:00] They're the precursors to the Fremen, basically.

[01:17:02] Right.

[01:17:03] Who would wander the galaxy before they ended up, you know.

[01:17:06] Right.

[01:17:06] And this is Frank just taking in all this Earth primary world, Earth history, folding things together and then projecting it out forward.

[01:17:16] Like what's going to happen to these different groups of people and these different philosophies and schools of thought and this kind of training and bringing it together.

[01:17:24] So he does a really interesting thing where he finds words and phrases and concepts and then welds them together in interesting ways.

[01:17:35] So Zenzuni, right?

[01:17:36] You're like, oh, wow, that's a really interesting idea.

[01:17:38] What is that?

[01:17:40] And that's one of the things that captured me into the books as a young person was like, oh, this feels like a really well thought out and coherent world that he's put together.

[01:17:49] Mm-hmm.

[01:17:51] So we get this comment from Natalia, which I think is really interesting.

[01:17:56] Rule how you want, marry who you want.

[01:17:59] And she points out that the new sword master is somebody that Inez has her eyes on.

[01:18:06] So that indicates to us that Kirin is newly attached to House Carino.

[01:18:12] So this is a recent development.

[01:18:13] And my question is, so I mentioned that Vorion Atreides was the one who Valia would say betrayed her great grandfather.

[01:18:23] Mm-hmm.

[01:18:23] He had, he lived a long time.

[01:18:27] I don't, I think I'm not supposed to really get into that too much.

[01:18:30] But he lived a long time and he ended up having two families.

[01:18:34] One on Caledon, which is the water planet we later see Paul being born on in the original Dune.

[01:18:38] And then he also, there's another like nice bucolic planet called Keplar where he had a second family.

[01:18:45] So leading into this moment, the Atreides from Caledon are very weakened because of Harkonnen treachery.

[01:18:53] And Keplar, they've been sort of living on their own and have only recently reconnected with the Empire.

[01:19:00] So my question is, is this Atreides from Caledon or Keplar or somewhere else?

[01:19:07] Interesting.

[01:19:08] Interesting.

[01:19:08] All right.

[01:19:09] So next we get the arrival of Desmond Hart and Kasha's vision.

[01:19:15] Hart appears before the Emperor and we learn that he served many tours on Arrakis, but was presumed dead in a quote unquote Fremen attack.

[01:19:23] Hart tells the Emperor that only he, Hart, can tell him the capital truth, capital T truth.

[01:19:30] Hart tells the Emperor that the attack was conducted by insurgents from the Empire, from the Imperium, not the Fremen.

[01:19:37] Hart lobbies for a position at court.

[01:19:40] Hart lobbies for a position at court and the Emperor invites him to stay for the betrothal ceremony.

[01:19:44] Can I say that 10 times fast?

[01:19:46] Hart gives Kasha a look as he departs.

[01:19:50] And then later, Kasha has a terrible vision induced by Hart's presence.

[01:19:54] Kasha takes leave from Inez, reminding Inez of who the sisterhood believes Inez can become.

[01:20:05] So big scene here, ramping up a lot of dramatic tension.

[01:20:08] So, I mean, it seems like Hart, Desmond sees Kasha as much as Kasha sees him.

[01:20:15] They're both clocking each other and, you know, and seeing that they're being clocked.

[01:20:19] And he, and it's unnerving to her that him, someone who's clearly not a sister or anything of the sort, that he gives her these looks like, oh.

[01:20:29] And obviously we see that play out.

[01:20:30] We know what he's planning.

[01:20:31] Right.

[01:20:33] We see while he's talking to the Emperor, we see Inez sort of do some hand movements and some eye, you know, things.

[01:20:42] And what that's communicating to me is, is that she's dropping into a deeper level of truth sense.

[01:20:50] So really shutting out all the other external stimuli and then just really hyper-focusing on Hart.

[01:21:00] And I think it's interesting.

[01:21:02] I just realized that in The Expanse, they do this as well.

[01:21:07] There's characters from Mars who take a little pill that sort of give them this ability to truth sense and be hyper-focused.

[01:21:15] But I noticed when I was doing my rewatch that as Hart is approaching the gates of the palace, we linger on a, briefly, we linger on a shot where he has a piece of black cloth in his hand.

[01:21:32] Is that burned?

[01:21:34] Is that, is it just naturally black?

[01:21:36] What is that?

[01:21:37] Is that a memento, a talisman, or an instrument of devilry?

[01:21:41] Do you have any thoughts or theories?

[01:21:43] I have no idea what to make of it.

[01:21:45] Well, so you, you noticed that after I, my theory is the whole thing we see at the end of the episode does not come from anywhere in Dune lore that we have someone who has the ability to just like mentally burn people.

[01:22:00] So I immediately jumped to, and again, I have to think about that Imperial court story that I covered on the Will Shift Dust episode where like one character had a, has a collection of bugs and he has these gnats that are invisible to the naked eye.

[01:22:16] But so you can use as a murder weapon that will just die and blow away.

[01:22:20] So I am not saying that it's something like that, but I don't know, something that makes it look supernatural, but it's really.

[01:22:31] It's still rooted in mundane.

[01:22:32] Yeah.

[01:22:33] Yeah.

[01:22:33] From the planet of Rosak, which apparently has all this poisonous stuff or, you know, something like that.

[01:22:38] Right.

[01:22:39] Because that was the thing, as I mentioned this before, that Herbert tried to stay very grounded and into known science and known physiology and known physics.

[01:22:49] And where he gets into science fiction is very limited areas.

[01:22:55] So yeah, I think a lot of people I noticed on our Discord and a few people on Blue Sky were like, okay, I really hope that this is rooted in something very pragmatic and not some sort of psychic power that, you know, gets us into a magic territory.

[01:23:15] So I love Kasha's line here.

[01:23:17] The Duke is no viper, simply a man sort of gives a, belies the attitude of the sisterhood towards humanity at large.

[01:23:24] He's just a guy.

[01:23:25] He just wants things.

[01:23:26] He has dreams and designs.

[01:23:30] What do you think of Travis Fimmel?

[01:23:33] Ragnar?

[01:23:34] Oh, I'm sorry.

[01:23:34] I mean, I mean, I do have to say that I have seen him.

[01:23:40] I saw him in, I watched the first season of that Raised by Wolves he was also in.

[01:23:45] But of course, I know him most.

[01:23:46] Such a weird show.

[01:23:48] Well, I just had some, well, anyway.

[01:23:50] Yeah, maybe I'll watch this second season at some point.

[01:23:53] But yeah, I know him best from Vikings as Ragnar.

[01:23:57] And he was like so perfect and nobody else could play it.

[01:24:00] But now people are saying like, well, is he playing the same character here?

[01:24:03] I'm like, well, maybe.

[01:24:04] But I guess it kind of is the same character.

[01:24:07] Religious zealot.

[01:24:08] Yeah, let him do the crazy eye thing pretty well.

[01:24:11] I wish they would just let him use his own Australian accent though.

[01:24:15] I don't think I've heard him in any interviews.

[01:24:18] So I'll have to look for that.

[01:24:21] So we get, then we sort of shift scenes and we have Inez's, or sorry, Kasha's vision that she has in her chambers later.

[01:24:30] And we see scenes of Kasha and Inez.

[01:24:34] We see this rotten pomegranate, which we see in the betrothal ceremony.

[01:24:38] We see Valia Harkonnen on the throne.

[01:24:41] We see a whole bunch of worm sign all woven through this.

[01:24:45] Then we see these blue eyes that are mumbling sounds that we can't really make out.

[01:24:50] And then at the very end, as we come back to reality, Inez, or sorry, not Inez, Kasha is almost reacting like her skin.

[01:24:57] She can feel her skin burning, which is foreshadowing the end of the episode.

[01:25:04] What did you pull out of this vision sequence?

[01:25:07] Valia will see the burning, but Kasha will feel it.

[01:25:12] That's true.

[01:25:13] It's true.

[01:25:13] I mean, I think I cannot safely talk about this until we get to our spoiler section.

[01:25:18] Okay.

[01:25:18] Fair enough.

[01:25:19] So lots of interesting portents things.

[01:25:22] Really quickly, the blue eyes or the blue lights, because they're lights, but then they really resolve into eyes.

[01:25:29] In the last frame of that sequence, if you look very carefully, they really start to resolve into eyes.

[01:25:35] And these mumbled sounds, we don't know, but the eyes, there's this, the eyes of the ibad, the blue within blue eyes.

[01:25:43] This is indicating somebody is addicted to melange, the spice, to such a degree that their physiology is now dependent upon it.

[01:25:53] And many people in the noble houses consume spice regularly, but they take efforts to hide the blue on blue eyes.

[01:26:02] Whereas the Fremen, who just live with spice, it's everywhere.

[01:26:05] It's in the coffee they drink.

[01:26:06] It's in the air that they breathe.

[01:26:08] It's for them is almost a sign of their identity as having those blue eyes.

[01:26:16] Yeah.

[01:26:16] So big mystery.

[01:26:18] Very interesting.

[01:26:19] Go ahead.

[01:26:19] I was just going to add about the pomegranates.

[01:26:22] Yes.

[01:26:22] Oh, yeah.

[01:26:22] Yeah.

[01:26:23] I was thinking about it.

[01:26:24] So that was, we saw them using that, as you said, in the betrothal ceremony, and we saw it rotten in this vision.

[01:26:30] So I guess this is a showing that the betrothal is going to go wrong.

[01:26:34] But the pomegranate itself is a symbol of fertility.

[01:26:37] Okay.

[01:26:38] So it makes sense that they would use it in a betrothal ceremony for that reason.

[01:26:41] But then it makes me wonder, like, are they saying that there won't be a progenesis of something?

[01:26:51] So that's interesting because they, what does the Duke say when he pushes his son forward?

[01:26:57] May his seed find purchase or something like that?

[01:27:01] He's nine.

[01:27:03] And he pushes him, right?

[01:27:04] He's just like, off you go and, you know, go do your thing.

[01:27:08] And then later we talk about whale seed.

[01:27:09] So there's definitely subtle hints of procreation.

[01:27:14] It's an interesting subversion of the child bride.

[01:27:18] It is, isn't it?

[01:27:20] And the same with Natalia saying, hey, man, you know, marry who you want, sleep with who you want, rule how you want.

[01:27:27] And that gives us very much this different perspective of Natalia as being a woman who can stand on her own two feet.

[01:27:33] She's not property to be.

[01:27:36] She's made it.

[01:27:37] We'll get to that scene in a second.

[01:27:38] I don't want to go too far.

[01:27:39] Right.

[01:27:39] But she, yeah, she's brought her own power to the table.

[01:27:42] Well, it's in fact, it's the next scene.

[01:27:44] So we can segue right into that.

[01:27:46] Haviko and Natalia discuss the wedding and the political situation after learning that Kasha has taken her leave.

[01:27:53] We learn more about their union and that Natalia is a power in her own right.

[01:27:58] Right.

[01:27:59] And is actually rather offended when Haviko doesn't take her advice seriously.

[01:28:05] So yeah, Natalia is a woman who negotiated her own betrothal.

[01:28:10] Right.

[01:28:10] She represents power.

[01:28:12] So this sounds exactly like the character from that Imperial court story, but that character's name was Chrisica.

[01:28:21] Chrisica shows up and basically is like, I'm here, the daughter of, you know, an emperor of, you know, some holdouts that aren't part of the Carino empire yet.

[01:28:28] Um, and I'm here to negotiate a marriage with Haviko, but this character has a different name.

[01:28:35] So I don't know if it's just like, if it's the same coming from the same notes or if it's just, uh, yeah.

[01:28:42] More inspiration and adaptation.

[01:28:44] Yeah.

[01:28:44] Where are they, where are they pulling?

[01:28:46] Well, so that was released in 2022.

[01:28:48] So I don't, maybe they didn't know the name Chrisica.

[01:28:51] Okay.

[01:28:52] Cassandra, Cassandra, or Cassandra.

[01:28:54] Sorry.

[01:28:54] That's what it was.

[01:28:55] So Natalia is really suspicious of the sisterhood and she doesn't like this, uh, uh, betrothal.

[01:29:03] And we see here later Haviko saying, yeah, this feels wrong to me, but Kasha has never steered me wrong.

[01:29:09] So it really indicates the, the weakened position that the emperor is in.

[01:29:14] He doesn't even trust himself in these moments.

[01:29:17] Yeah.

[01:29:18] Oh, sorry.

[01:29:19] And just, I want to say that the, the whole thing with the veils was also very much from

[01:29:23] that Cassandra character.

[01:29:24] Sorry.

[01:29:24] I'm done.

[01:29:25] Okay.

[01:29:25] Yeah.

[01:29:26] No worries.

[01:29:26] And then, um, and I think we see the, the tension between Haviko and Natalia.

[01:29:31] She's worried about political power balances in this wedding or in her daughter, frankly,

[01:29:39] where Haviko is really worried about Arrakis.

[01:29:42] And he does say to Hart later, you know, I'll, if, if spice gets, if the flow of spice gets

[01:29:48] messed up, then they're going to feed me to the worm.

[01:29:50] Uh, so he's again, really feeling that precarious.

[01:29:53] So they, this married couple have two very different opinions about what they need to

[01:29:58] be doing in this situation.

[01:29:59] He's looking at one aspect.

[01:30:01] She's looking at another aspect and, and he even pulls his hand or what is she puts her

[01:30:05] hand on his, on his hand.

[01:30:07] And he says, yeah, we, we don't see the same things.

[01:30:10] We don't remember these things the same way.

[01:30:13] All right.

[01:30:14] Back on Wallach nine, the sisters have a heart to heart.

[01:30:18] Tula and Valia discuss the relative strengths and weaknesses of the students as they consider

[01:30:22] whom to pair with Inez once the princess arrives.

[01:30:26] And we, uh, get a nice exposition dump, uh, as the audience, uh, about our secondary characters

[01:30:35] and the sisters trade barbs and their conversation is cut short by the arrival of Kasha's ship.

[01:30:42] And we've got three intercut scenes here.

[01:30:44] So we'll talk a little bit about this and then a couple of other scenes that focus on Wallach

[01:30:48] nine before we flip back to, uh, Seleuza secondus where, um, it just makes a little bit more

[01:30:53] sense to bring these topics together from a chronological standpoint of the television show.

[01:30:59] Uh, how good are Watson and Williams together on screen here?

[01:31:04] Yeah.

[01:31:04] So I saw an interview that apparently they have the same manager who's like a mother hen figure.

[01:31:09] So they already know each other well and have a sisterly sisterly relationship going into

[01:31:14] this project.

[01:31:15] So I think that shows.

[01:31:16] Yeah.

[01:31:17] I love it.

[01:31:17] And both of these women are just phenomenal talents and it's just great to see them

[01:31:23] doing their thing on screen and just having, and I love having this intimate moment between

[01:31:28] the sisters where we, they kind of trade barbs a little bit and they, they needle each other,

[01:31:33] uh, at a couple of times where, uh, Tula points out that, oh, is this the sisterhood's will

[01:31:40] or is this your will?

[01:31:41] And, and, uh, Valia says, well, your favorite is kind of a weakling.

[01:31:46] Uh, yeah.

[01:31:47] About Lila, Lila.

[01:31:49] Yeah.

[01:31:49] What do you think?

[01:31:50] Uh, what did you pick up from their conversation about these secondary characters that we've

[01:31:54] got?

[01:31:55] Um, well, I mean, it seems like there are these four that we need to remember.

[01:31:59] I, Emmeline, um, we know the least about her.

[01:32:03] Theodosia seems to be standing out as like a strong and good at truth saying.

[01:32:08] Jen is very interesting to me because she tells that story as you brought up before,

[01:32:15] like she talks about basically being sold into sex work as a child and then killing the

[01:32:19] man and then going back and killing her parents.

[01:32:21] And we don't really know how much of that is truth and how much is a lie.

[01:32:26] So yeah, I, we don't really know is Jen like the, really the kind of person who would do

[01:32:34] that sort of thing, obviously provoked, or is she the person kind of person who would

[01:32:38] lie about doing such a thing?

[01:32:40] And Lila, uh, I'll call her Lila for now.

[01:32:43] Uh, Lila, uh, is, picks up on that and we get that scene later where she calls Jen out.

[01:32:49] Like you mixed truth and lie there.

[01:32:52] And of course the show runners, the writers left that purposely mysterious for us to, uh,

[01:32:57] have that unfold later on, I'm sure.

[01:32:59] Yeah.

[01:33:00] Well, I mean, so Lila, she's being, Valia is seeing her as a weakling.

[01:33:05] Um, but she's actually, she shows there.

[01:33:09] It reminds me a bit actually of Prey.

[01:33:11] Okay.

[01:33:12] Where we see that the main character there, Amber Midthunder's character, she is, it takes

[01:33:17] her a longer time to like set up, for instance, a shot at a bird with a bow and arrow.

[01:33:23] And her brother just like comes in and goes, whoop, and shoots the bird.

[01:33:26] And she's like, no, but I was waiting for it to circle back so that I wouldn't have to run

[01:33:30] and get it, you know, fall on the side of the lake.

[01:33:33] Right.

[01:33:33] Um, and, and it seems to me like, I'll call her Lila for now.

[01:33:38] Um, Lila's that sort of character because she is, she doesn't, in the moment, she's like

[01:33:44] a bit afraid of the person and she seems to be the one who fails when everybody's watching

[01:33:48] in terms of the truth sense.

[01:33:50] But as Tula points out, she's a natural empath.

[01:33:52] And later she's the only one who can actually accurately, um, source out Jen.

[01:33:58] Yeah.

[01:33:58] Yeah.

[01:33:59] Mm-hmm.

[01:33:59] Yeah.

[01:34:00] Yeah.

[01:34:00] Super interesting stuff.

[01:34:01] So in lots of, yeah, unfolding yet for the next five episodes.

[01:34:06] Mm-hmm.

[01:34:06] So we're going to skip scenes a little bit here.

[01:34:08] Kasha shares her vision and warns the sisters that the plan to install Yenia's might be the

[01:34:13] very thing that brings about the reckoning.

[01:34:16] Dun, dun, dun.

[01:34:17] And then the sisters debate Kasha's vision and Valya doubles down on being the one who has

[01:34:24] the mandate for Markella and who will, who will see the burning truth.

[01:34:29] And Tula challenges her sister to double check the match.

[01:34:34] Valya goes to the breeding records and confirms that the match between Pruitt and Inez is valid.

[01:34:41] So there's a lot there.

[01:34:43] Yeah.

[01:34:43] What do you think?

[01:34:44] So this whole burning, the one who will see the burning one, it just makes me, I don't

[01:34:49] know if this is the proper term, but like the paradox of prophecy, basically when you

[01:34:54] hear a prophecy and so it makes that thing happen.

[01:34:57] Like, because she's like, I'm going to be the one to see the burning.

[01:35:00] She feels justified in, for instance, taking out Dorothea and, you know, because she's

[01:35:05] setting herself up to be.

[01:35:07] Right.

[01:35:07] Yeah.

[01:35:08] And that's something that Herbert plays with in the books and which is part of Paul's

[01:35:13] struggle and then in the latter books, the downside of premonition of being able to see

[01:35:20] the future.

[01:35:21] And so I think they're playing again with those ideas, but in the, around the word prophecy

[01:35:27] and, and like you said, you know, making the truth happen.

[01:35:30] Yeah.

[01:35:31] Super interesting.

[01:35:35] Valya, I noticed is she's very committed to the mission of the sisterhood, but she's

[01:35:40] also very vain.

[01:35:42] And I think for me, the question is, is her vanity a blind spot?

[01:35:45] Is that something that she's lying to herself about?

[01:35:49] Is that she can actually objectively rule?

[01:35:51] She tells Julia, yeah, I heard Kasha, but I dismissed it.

[01:35:55] Did you, or, or do you feel challenged by what Kasha is saying?

[01:36:00] And, and are you creating the reckoning by adhering so close to your plans?

[01:36:06] Mm-hmm.

[01:36:08] So, and of course we get hints at the closed door.

[01:36:11] What's behind the closed door?

[01:36:14] Right.

[01:36:14] So we're going to jump over to, uh, Saluza Secundus, a betrothal.

[01:36:19] Pruitt Richese is presented and he and Ynez meet for the first time.

[01:36:23] We see several scenes that were foreshadowed in Kasha's vision.

[01:36:27] Pruitt mounts a cute little stepstool to meet his future bride as they commit, because they

[01:36:32] complete the ceremony.

[01:36:33] And then during the reception, uh, Constantine plays the balacet and Harrow tries to sell

[01:36:41] whale seed to the emperor.

[01:36:42] Mm-hmm.

[01:36:43] And then Pruitt is caught with forbidden computer technology causing an uproar and Ynez protects

[01:36:49] him from the consequences, but then warns him severely.

[01:36:54] What are your thoughts on, uh, this group of scenes?

[01:36:58] Yeah.

[01:36:59] I mean, for me, the real pointing meme was with the Harkonnen, um, trying to sell, well,

[01:37:05] he does first say whale fur.

[01:37:07] Whale fur.

[01:37:07] I know.

[01:37:07] I put in the seed for laughs.

[01:37:08] I know.

[01:37:10] Um, but it does.

[01:37:12] So this is something I don't think will be shown.

[01:37:14] It's not a spoiler.

[01:37:15] Uh, but just to talk about before they had this spacing guild, there was, uh, the Venport,

[01:37:20] but the Venport was not an exclusive guild and there was a competitor, but the competitor

[01:37:25] ships were known to go missing from time to time.

[01:37:27] So there's a bit from sisterhood of Dune where, um, they, I guess it would be the uncle or

[01:37:34] cousin.

[01:37:35] I think it's the uncle.

[01:37:36] Uncle.

[01:37:36] Yeah.

[01:37:37] Of Valia, uh, goes to on a whale fur selling expedition and the ship just disappears with

[01:37:43] her whole cargo and everything.

[01:37:44] Yeah.

[01:37:44] It's really the wild west of the Dune world.

[01:37:47] Anyway.

[01:37:48] Yeah.

[01:37:48] That's my, that's, this was what stood out to me the most.

[01:37:51] I'm very intrigued by Harrow and I want to know what the current situation is on L'Ancafell

[01:37:59] with the Harkonnens.

[01:38:00] Right.

[01:38:01] And I, I saw in, I think, oh, it's in the trailer.

[01:38:05] There's a scene where Harrow Harkonnen and that's the, uh, the, um, Harkonnen air who is talking

[01:38:13] to the emperor is talking to another guy.

[01:38:16] And we see that guy.

[01:38:17] He's got, uh, he's a little bit balding on top, long white hair, bit heavy set older.

[01:38:22] And I actually saw him in the crowd scenes of the, of the ceremony.

[01:38:26] And we have him on the show guide.

[01:38:29] Oh, it's Evgeny Harkonnen.

[01:38:30] Uh, looks like one of our, um, uh, uh, our, our helpers, Brian or probably Brian on our

[01:38:37] discord, uh, has put him in.

[01:38:39] He must've found his name in the, uh, in the IMDb database.

[01:38:43] Brian's read, uh, most of the prequel books, I think so.

[01:38:46] Good.

[01:38:46] Well, yeah.

[01:38:47] So we've got a little team helping us with the show guide and that is really helpful

[01:38:51] because these shows are a lot to unpack.

[01:38:53] Anyway, uh, my big question is, can no one get Desmond Hart a new uniform?

[01:38:59] I mean, the dude shows up on the most richest planet of the world and he's still got to walk

[01:39:03] around in his duster.

[01:39:05] Like take a shower, my man.

[01:39:06] Don't you think he's doing that on purpose just to like present himself as a certain way?

[01:39:11] Yeah.

[01:39:12] Right.

[01:39:12] And when he stabbed the little lizard thing with his knife, he's like, oh yeah, this guy's

[01:39:16] kind of dangerous.

[01:39:17] And yeah.

[01:39:18] Yeah.

[01:39:19] By the way, I love, I love that, um, Constantine apparently plays the balisettes, which is

[01:39:24] an important instrument in this universe.

[01:39:27] It's, uh, played by Gurney Halleck in the original book.

[01:39:31] Yep.

[01:39:31] Dory movie.

[01:39:32] It was a Leo pointing meme when he was playing that and I was like, oh, there you go.

[01:39:37] That's nice.

[01:39:38] Uh, I, I loved Pruitt's little, um, formal dress shorts and his little tuxedo pants.

[01:39:45] And, uh, I love his nine-year-old logic.

[01:39:48] Like my dad says we don't have to talk, so let's just do this.

[01:39:51] She's like, oh, okay.

[01:39:53] And then the fiddling, the fiddling with the mask and the veil.

[01:39:57] Oh my God.

[01:39:57] It's so awkward.

[01:39:59] One of the things that we talked about with House of the Dragons season one was that it

[01:40:03] was really dry.

[01:40:04] There were very few little humorless, humored moments.

[01:40:08] And both in Foundation season two and in House of the Dragons season two, Rings of Power,

[01:40:13] even when we've got these big IPs with the, you know, big fate of the world is at stake

[01:40:18] kind of stories.

[01:40:19] You got to have some humor in there to help.

[01:40:24] Otherwise it's just too much dry pie.

[01:40:26] And so I, I love the fact that they are finding these little humorless, humor moments to, to

[01:40:32] help levitate things a little bit.

[01:40:34] Cause otherwise it can just be too heavy and too, too much to, to process.

[01:40:39] Yeah.

[01:40:40] Yeah.

[01:40:40] Uh, tons of, uh, characters in the crowd.

[01:40:43] And, uh, we've, it looks like our, our team on the, on the show guide has added them.

[01:40:49] We see Shannon Richese.

[01:40:50] We see, uh, Orla Richese and definitely Evgeny Harkonnen.

[01:40:54] So those are, are good picks.

[01:40:56] Um, why was the little lizard toy not confiscated?

[01:40:59] I don't know.

[01:41:00] It should have been confiscated and given to me.

[01:41:04] Is this gonna, is, is, uh, Disney needs to get on the merchandising game here with a

[01:41:10] little dragon toy?

[01:41:11] I mean, if they can make it do that, uh, then I can't afford it.

[01:41:17] Right.

[01:41:18] Right.

[01:41:18] And, um, I think with the, with the whole question of the little lizard toy and, uh,

[01:41:27] Javiko dismissing it, this is further tension between him and the Empress Natalia.

[01:41:34] And she's like, this is bad juju.

[01:41:36] We need to get rid of it.

[01:41:37] And this is not cool.

[01:41:38] There needs to be consequences.

[01:41:39] And he's like, uh, you know, I gotta get this marriage done so that I can get control

[01:41:44] of Arrakis because I need those ships, those troops.

[01:41:48] So, and I think those troops, well, we're going to talk about it here in a little bit

[01:41:51] with when the Emperor and Hart talk, but, uh, let's first swing over to Inez and her

[01:41:57] brother hit the clubs.

[01:41:59] Uh, we get a brief scene of the princess's waiting accommodations on Wallach 9, which seemed

[01:42:05] very austere and plain and bottom bunk in a, in a big room of, uh, other alkaline

[01:42:10] acolytes.

[01:42:11] But then we flash to the cyber cab flying across the sky as they head for a swanky, hidden,

[01:42:19] hidden, hedonistic part of the town.

[01:42:21] They share a little bump.

[01:42:23] And then at the club, Constantine finds his people and Inez gets ready to party and runs

[01:42:30] into Kyrian.

[01:42:31] And then we get our first introduction to Michaela, our only known Fremen character.

[01:42:37] So, uh, looks like the club scene is pretty much the same in 10,000 years as it is from

[01:42:44] today.

[01:42:45] Um, the rich are going to party like the rich do.

[01:42:48] Uh, and we get a very sexy scene with Kyrian and, uh, and Inez.

[01:42:55] And, uh, this, this, it has implications beyond just the princess wanting to sow her wild oats,

[01:43:03] but also between Carino and Atreides and their, their closeness and, and how that's going to

[01:43:08] play out later on.

[01:43:09] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:43:11] Uh, we don't know much.

[01:43:12] Do you know much about Michaela?

[01:43:13] I, all I know is that somehow she's supposed to be attached to the imperial court in some

[01:43:19] way.

[01:43:20] Is she a spy?

[01:43:21] Is she eyes for the emperor?

[01:43:23] This is our only known Fremen.

[01:43:25] And of course, you know, the, the blue upon blue eyes, uh, marks her as such.

[01:43:30] No, that's why I think it's smart that they set these like after the books that are published

[01:43:36] during this part of the timeline, because they are definitely taking stories from the

[01:43:39] books as backstory, but they're able to add these characters and, you know, there's no

[01:43:45] books again after this for 10,000 years.

[01:43:47] So they could do pretty much anything.

[01:43:49] You know, there's the through line of the characters like Javiko and Valia, but, um, all

[01:43:53] these other characters don't know, don't know.

[01:43:55] Yeah.

[01:43:55] They picked a smart time period.

[01:43:57] I think you pointed that out is that this is, gives them a lot of room.

[01:44:00] They have a lot of lore to work with and they have a point that they they're aiming

[01:44:03] for, but in between there and between now and then it's a huge wide open field for them.

[01:44:09] All right.

[01:44:09] The emperor has a heart to hearts.

[01:44:11] Desmond and the emperor discussed the situation on Arrakis and Desmond warns that the real

[01:44:16] threat is much bigger than Haviko realizes and that a new fleet and a few troops are not

[01:44:22] going to be enough.

[01:44:25] Desmond plants a barb about the sisters and catches the attention of the emperor.

[01:44:29] Desmond hints at something supernatural that saves his life and tells Haviko that the gods

[01:44:36] are listening.

[01:44:38] Haviko's prayer rid me of this turbulent priest.

[01:44:41] I mean, get me out of this, uh, this wedding situation.

[01:44:45] So this was a really pivotal scene for me, uh, on a couple of levels.

[01:44:51] One, I think, so this is one of my predictions.

[01:44:54] I don't know this for sure, but, um, this is a prediction along with the Bene Gesserit being

[01:44:58] named the Bene Gesserit.

[01:44:59] These are kind of safe bets in a way too.

[01:45:02] I think that this is the beginning of the Sardaukar.

[01:45:04] We see in the trailer later Desmond Hart in a new uniform with a bunch of dudes with swords.

[01:45:10] We see some fighting later on with these guys.

[01:45:14] So I think, uh, the emperor's terror troops is an important part of the, the later stories

[01:45:20] where he has this, uh, lethal force that he can deploy anywhere in the universe to maintain

[01:45:28] his authority and control.

[01:45:30] And I, and I really see them setting up Haviko as, as being, uh, politically weak character

[01:45:37] and needing a tool, a cudgel to keep the Lonsrad in, in place.

[01:45:42] And does Desmond have something else beyond his supernatural and, uh, his beef with the

[01:45:48] sisterhood?

[01:45:49] Does he have something else that he's able to offer?

[01:45:51] And I'm predicting that we're going to see the, the genesis of the Sardaukar.

[01:45:55] And then my question is, and I doubt it would happen this season, but if they have additional

[01:45:59] seasons, do we see how the planet Seleucus Secundus becomes the baron wasteland we knowed it to

[01:46:07] be, which we, we know we get a reference like that we know as atomics and this is why atomics

[01:46:13] are so taboo later in the timeline.

[01:46:15] But, uh, right.

[01:46:16] And then that goes into the whole, the whole thing that Herbert is talking about in terms

[01:46:20] of how does a ecology shape culture and, uh, Seleucus Secundus being a, a place where

[01:46:27] the Sardaukar are trained.

[01:46:29] Uh, I, I love this line of heart.

[01:46:32] I, I just, I prayed for the strength to feel nothing.

[01:46:35] Like his terror was so overwhelming.

[01:46:38] He was just like, I'd rather feel nothing for the rest of my life than to feel what I'm,

[01:46:43] I'm feeling now.

[01:46:44] But then he puts out this tantalizing line, the gods are listening.

[01:46:48] He's like, I am your confessor.

[01:46:50] What is it that you wish?

[01:46:52] What would you like most in the world?

[01:46:54] And, and Havico says, ah, religion.

[01:46:57] That's my wife's purview.

[01:47:00] But he drops this line like, man, if you can get me out of this, this marriage proposal

[01:47:04] situation, uh, if that could happen, I believe whatever you're trying to sell me.

[01:47:09] And in that moment, if you go back and you rewatch that scene, watch Trammus Fimmel's face.

[01:47:17] And you can see, I, this is my theory that I'm advancing that up until that moment, Pruitt

[01:47:23] was safe.

[01:47:24] But in that moment, he drops that line of like, gosh, I wish somebody could just deal with this

[01:47:29] for me.

[01:47:29] And I won't have to think about it.

[01:47:31] It's a way for somebody in power to, uh, have somebody executed without implicating themselves.

[01:47:36] I don't know.

[01:47:36] I just said an offhand comment.

[01:47:38] Those people went off and did their own thing.

[01:47:40] So it's that, that indirect thing, uh, that impels action by somebody else.

[01:47:47] And in this case, I think Fimmel, you can see him, you can see the wheels turning behind

[01:47:52] his eyes that he has a plan for what he's going to do.

[01:47:57] Then how, how that plays with Kasha and that whole thing.

[01:48:00] We don't know.

[01:48:01] But I think in that moment, that's when he decides to murder Pruitt.

[01:48:05] Hmm.

[01:48:07] Thoughts?

[01:48:08] No, I mean, yeah, I, I agree with you.

[01:48:11] And I think that you, um, clocked a good, a good moment there where, yeah.

[01:48:15] And it makes me wonder, it makes me wonder what the real mutual feelings are between Haviko

[01:48:23] and Desmond.

[01:48:24] Uh-huh.

[01:48:24] Like, is there respect?

[01:48:26] Is there suspicion?

[01:48:27] Is there some sort of alliance?

[01:48:31] Um, what is there?

[01:48:33] I think, I think Haviko really respects him because he's, he points out 12 tours of duty,

[01:48:37] uh, commendation when, uh, Hart says, Hey, I'd love to have a place at court here.

[01:48:42] He's like, Oh yeah, dude like you.

[01:48:44] Totally.

[01:48:44] We can, we can get you something, something that you're going to, you're going to enjoy.

[01:48:48] So I, I really do think he sees Hart's service for the Imperium as, uh, something that he

[01:48:56] admires and, uh, is very willing to reward.

[01:48:59] So one thing I picked up, especially from that Imperial court story is that, um, Haviko,

[01:49:06] he's always, he's searching for an advisor.

[01:49:09] You know, he's, he's looking for someone to trust because he's not necessarily the most

[01:49:16] politically astute on his own.

[01:49:18] Um, and we see Kasha killed by Desmond.

[01:49:24] So that means he needs a new chief advisor.

[01:49:28] Hmm.

[01:49:29] Good pick.

[01:49:30] I didn't think about that implication of Kasha being off the table now.

[01:49:34] He really has.

[01:49:35] And cause he, when Hart drops that little barb about the sisterhood, the Emperor leans

[01:49:42] forward and he's like, Kasha's never steered me wrong, but in my bones, I feel like this

[01:49:47] is a bad marriage and I know she's been advised and now she's off the table.

[01:49:52] Oh yeah.

[01:49:52] That's a really good pick.

[01:49:53] So he can now slide in.

[01:49:54] He doesn't have Kasha to deal with anymore.

[01:49:56] Yeah.

[01:49:57] That's my thinking about why he killed her.

[01:50:01] I like it.

[01:50:01] I like it.

[01:50:02] Okay.

[01:50:02] Let's wrap it up with the final scenes.

[01:50:05] Jen and Lila bond?

[01:50:07] Question mark.

[01:50:08] JC has a bad dream.

[01:50:09] Haviko has a bad dream.

[01:50:10] I refer to him as JC in my notes.

[01:50:13] I don't have to try to spell Haviko every time.

[01:50:15] Uh, JC has a bad dream and the burning truth is revealed in their beds.

[01:50:20] Lila and Jen talk.

[01:50:22] Lila calls out Jen from mixing truth and lies.

[01:50:25] Valia considers her situation and Haviko reviews the visual report from Arrakis, which was

[01:50:32] left by Desmond for him to find?

[01:50:35] Question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark.

[01:50:37] Uh, Desmond confronts Pruitt who spontaneously combusts.

[01:50:42] And on Wallach 9, the same happens to Kasha.

[01:50:45] So this was the real WTF moment of the episode.

[01:50:48] I think it left everybody agog at the end.

[01:50:51] How did you find yourself at the final release?

[01:50:53] Well, yeah.

[01:50:54] Like I said, I immediately started to think like, what did he use to do that?

[01:50:58] Because I don't believe for a second that he has, especially with Kasha on another planet,

[01:51:02] you know?

[01:51:02] Mm-hmm.

[01:51:03] But I don't, it's not a thing in this world to have like these sort of psychic.

[01:51:08] Right.

[01:51:09] Killing powers.

[01:51:10] Um, so they must be based on something.

[01:51:14] And yeah, I just think it must've been something that had a timed response.

[01:51:30] Mm-hmm.

[01:51:31] Or two sitting down with him.

[01:51:33] How did he, uh, affect that, that plan?

[01:51:36] Um, and then at the end, when he's sitting across from Pruitt, they make it look like

[01:51:44] Hart is, you know, he's tapping his temple and, and it's like, oh, this is some sort of,

[01:51:50] you know, psychic power that he's, you know, and he's, he's really exerting himself, you

[01:51:55] know, through his, through his influence.

[01:51:57] But is that the truth?

[01:51:59] I think they're playing with this and I think that maybe that he's just reacting to watching

[01:52:03] a child die.

[01:52:04] Yeah.

[01:52:05] No, I think that's what it is too.

[01:52:06] I agree.

[01:52:07] He's having an emotional response to the fact that he's seeing this person, uh, spontaneously

[01:52:11] combust.

[01:52:12] So it paints him as somewhat akin to Valya in, as in, you know, what was the, what's the quote

[01:52:19] from the beginning?

[01:52:20] Um, victory is celebrated in the light, but our battles are won in the darkness.

[01:52:24] Mm-hmm.

[01:52:25] And this is a dark moment.

[01:52:26] And it's great because he comes from that side hallway with that hover, that floating,

[01:52:31] uh, lamp, which is a very much a dune, especially in the 84 movie.

[01:52:35] Yeah.

[01:52:36] Suspenser.

[01:52:36] We see that a lot.

[01:52:38] And he comes from the lightness.

[01:52:40] Sorry?

[01:52:40] In the books, it's mentioned a lot.

[01:52:42] A lot.

[01:52:43] A lot.

[01:52:44] It's really weird.

[01:52:45] Uh, he comes in from the lighted hallway into this semi-dark, um, moment.

[01:52:50] So yeah, that's a, that's a good call.

[01:52:52] And he says, you know, your sacrifice won't be in vain.

[01:52:56] So a lot, a lot like Valya, he's willing to take, uh, pieces off the people off the board

[01:53:02] for his purposes.

[01:53:04] Something we didn't talk about when Valya and Dorothea, uh, when she uses the voice on

[01:53:09] her was kinslaying.

[01:53:11] As the Tolkien fans might know that this is sister on sister violence.

[01:53:17] And, uh, it's the one time that we really know that, uh, the, these, these two factions

[01:53:24] come to blows and she puts that one down, but I don't think we see anywhere else, um, uh,

[01:53:29] ever on sister on sister violence.

[01:53:31] Right.

[01:53:32] Well, it is also, so in the books, it's a bigger thing where like Dorothea takes, um, they

[01:53:36] end up dividing into different locations where Valya goes to Wallach nine and Dorothea takes

[01:53:43] a group to Seleucus Secundus and like positions herself closer to the emperor than even.

[01:53:48] Right.

[01:53:48] Right.

[01:53:50] So, um, a couple of other notes, let's stay focused on, uh, on, uh, Pruitt and, uh, Desmond.

[01:54:01] What happened to the robot lizard?

[01:54:03] I need to know because I needs to have it.

[01:54:07] Cause he had it in his hand.

[01:54:08] And then when he cuts scene, when we cut the scene again and we come back to him and he's

[01:54:13] starting to feel his skin burning, it's gone.

[01:54:16] You think Desmond took it?

[01:54:18] And I tried to look at the frames as he's leaving later and I can't tell he's doing something

[01:54:24] with his hands, but I don't know if it's, he's limping or doing something.

[01:54:27] I, it's hard to tell if he pocketed it, but it just literally from the frame vanishes.

[01:54:32] And what is, is that intentional?

[01:54:34] I cannot believe at a show of this caliber, it's a Starbucks cup, uh, you know, on the,

[01:54:40] uh, on the table, you know, kind of scene, you know, is it, I don't think it's a production

[01:54:46] error.

[01:54:46] I think it's got to be mentioned.

[01:54:49] So, and then the other thing I was thinking about with Pruitt and both, um, uh, Kasha

[01:54:54] is the whole thing of pain through nerve induction.

[01:54:59] So when Paul sticks his hand in the box with, um, uh, with the Reverend mother, that pain,

[01:55:05] that burning upon burning, as Herbert describes it in the book is through nerve induction.

[01:55:10] So there's no actual physical thing going on, but the nerves are being stimulated.

[01:55:16] So is there something else going that it just reminds me of that.

[01:55:19] And I don't know, you know, what they're pulling for inspiration, but that it just makes me think

[01:55:24] that.

[01:55:25] Mm-hmm.

[01:55:26] Yeah.

[01:55:26] And then of course we get the embers floating up both from Pruitt and Kasha, which represents,

[01:55:30] you know, sort of ties back into that opening sequence.

[01:55:33] Well, so I wonder, you know, if the burning thing was just representing what they're feeling

[01:55:38] or if they actually leave charred bodies.

[01:55:40] Um, I mean, I guess they suggested at this point, they actually leave charred bodies,

[01:55:45] but I wouldn't be completely surprised if the beginning of the next episode, they, the

[01:55:49] bodies looked pretty normal.

[01:55:51] Huh?

[01:55:51] Interesting.

[01:55:52] And it was just like you said, like that illusion you get when you do the gom jibar test.

[01:55:57] Uh, a couple of, uh, things I picked up also from the official podcast was that the, uh,

[01:56:04] Kasha part of the scenes that Kasha had are a realistic dummy that they made so that they could

[01:56:10] do the skin chart.

[01:56:11] So that's like a physical object, not CGI.

[01:56:14] Mm-hmm.

[01:56:15] Really incredible.

[01:56:16] Really good work because it's, was seamless.

[01:56:19] And that the other thing is that the, uh, the actor who plays, uh, Pruitt, uh, I've got

[01:56:24] his name right here, uh, Charlie Hudson Pryor.

[01:56:27] That was his first day of shooting was to shoot that scene.

[01:56:31] Oh, really?

[01:56:32] Yeah.

[01:56:32] He did a great job.

[01:56:34] You know, kid actors are, can be a crap shoot, but he did a really great job with

[01:56:38] all of his scenes.

[01:56:38] Yeah.

[01:56:39] Yeah.

[01:56:39] He, he really did.

[01:56:40] He, he nailed it.

[01:56:41] Uh, let's talk really quickly about Jen and Lila.

[01:56:46] Uh, the don't worry.

[01:56:49] The past always finds us.

[01:56:50] So I think they're just foreshadowing some more to come with Jen's past and the

[01:56:54] relationship between Lila and Jen.

[01:56:57] And that Lila talks about being born into the sisterhood.

[01:57:02] Mm-hmm.

[01:57:02] This is very much, uh, can a canon thing that a lot of women will be, uh, through the breeding

[01:57:09] index will be born and they will keep their heritage from the child and that they're just

[01:57:16] a child of, of the sisterhood.

[01:57:17] But it's all part of the plans within plans of the, of the sisters with their genetic breeding

[01:57:22] process.

[01:57:23] Right.

[01:57:23] Like in the original book, Jessica doesn't know who her parents are until later.

[01:57:27] It's a plot point.

[01:57:28] Dun dun.

[01:57:29] Yeah.

[01:57:30] Uh, so when, uh, Hobbico finds that little data chip thing, it's in a little bag that

[01:57:39] from the cloth makes me think that it was left there by Hart.

[01:57:46] Mm-hmm.

[01:57:46] He has a bad dream.

[01:57:47] He gets up, he wanders into this room, he finds this thing.

[01:57:51] What's this?

[01:57:51] He, he watches it and we see him, uh, Hart proffering himself to the worm.

[01:57:59] And if you look closely, there are three thumpers.

[01:58:01] So three devices that are going to thump into the sand that attract the worms.

[01:58:07] And, uh, then the worm, uh, uh, ostensibly consumes him.

[01:58:12] Question.

[01:58:13] Is this real or is this fake news?

[01:58:17] Yeah.

[01:58:17] I mean, I don't know.

[01:58:19] I don't know.

[01:58:19] I'm just asking questions here.

[01:58:20] I don't know how he could physically technologically.

[01:58:23] I don't know how it would be possible for him to do that, but I do think that it, there

[01:58:28] is a sort of propaganda aspect in terms of you're right.

[01:58:33] He probably did leave it there for Hobbico to find.

[01:58:36] Mm-hmm.

[01:58:36] Mm-hmm.

[01:58:37] And then how, if, if that's the case, then how true is it?

[01:58:39] Because how do we know that anybody can survive being swallowed by a worm?

[01:58:44] Like you just don't.

[01:58:46] Mm-hmm.

[01:58:47] Um, let's see a couple of final.

[01:58:50] Notes.

[01:58:51] Um, it's interesting that Havico has a bad dream and so does Pruitt.

[01:58:55] Uh, so everybody's like waking up.

[01:58:57] So is Desmond Hart the Sandman in some way infecting everybody's thoughts?

[01:59:02] Yeah.

[01:59:02] And then also just some interesting notes that the Richezys are very lax about technology.

[01:59:07] Yeah.

[01:59:08] Yeah.

[01:59:08] And that's definitely been clocked by, for instance, Desmond.

[01:59:11] Yeah.

[01:59:12] Exactly.

[01:59:13] And then, of course, we have this line, uh, war, a war hidden in plain sight.

[01:59:17] And they've come to do our thinking for us.

[01:59:19] But the machine war is over.

[01:59:21] Mm-hmm.

[01:59:21] So obviously the drift is, yeah, the sisterhood are trying to think for us.

[01:59:25] And I'm here to stop that.

[01:59:27] Yeah.

[01:59:28] And so I guess the big cliffhanger question, I mean, other than like, what the hell just

[01:59:32] happened?

[01:59:34] The cliffhanger is, is what's going to happen with Inez now?

[01:59:37] Because now her whole plan is blown up.

[01:59:40] The sisterhood's whole plan is blown up.

[01:59:43] Is Inez now not going to be allowed to join the sisterhood?

[01:59:47] Is she going to be married off to someone else?

[01:59:49] Is what's, what's going to happen next for her?

[01:59:52] Yeah.

[01:59:53] Yeah.

[01:59:53] Big questions.

[01:59:55] So let's take another quick commercial break.

[01:59:57] We come back.

[01:59:58] We will get into some feedback and then talk about what's coming up next for the lore hounds.

[02:00:04] And then we'll put in another break and then we'll get into our, our deep discussions.

[02:00:08] We'll be right back.

[02:00:20] So hand of the pod, Nancy, thank you so very much for facilitating with feedback.

[02:00:27] Again, it's going to make things much easier.

[02:00:29] You can send in emails to the email address, dune at the lorehounds.com.

[02:00:36] You can jump onto our website and there's a contact form there as well as a voicemail

[02:00:41] feature.

[02:00:41] If you want to send in voicemails, you can also just use your smartphone voice memo app

[02:00:45] and email them to the same email address.

[02:00:47] You'll be surprised if Nancy writes back.

[02:00:50] She loves to talk with everybody and I know it's just really great.

[02:00:54] I think it's really fun that, that we have her there.

[02:00:56] And of course we always have the discord.

[02:00:57] So if you've got any comments there, Nancy will keep an eye on, on things.

[02:01:02] So Nancy's code have broken up the feedback into a couple of major sections here between

[02:01:09] those who have read the books and some of the books, some of the extended universe books

[02:01:15] and...

[02:01:15] No, but these are actually the original book or most of the references or some of them.

[02:01:20] Okay.

[02:01:20] But I checked through and this book reader section has no spoilers.

[02:01:25] So we don't have to worry about spoilers.

[02:01:26] Great.

[02:01:26] And in future, if you do want to talk book spoilers, definitely write them in and then

[02:01:31] we'll add them into the book spoiler section at the very end of the podcast.

[02:01:34] We'll, we'll make sure to separate that stuff.

[02:01:36] So first up, Pawson20 on the discord.

[02:01:38] As someone who's never read the books, but loved the first two Dune movies, I really liked

[02:01:42] the first episode of Dune Prophecy.

[02:01:44] Production design is gorgeous.

[02:01:46] Really interested in several new characters, especially Hart.

[02:01:50] And does he really have magic powers?

[02:01:52] I don't think that for a low ranking soldier like Desmond...

[02:01:56] I do think for.

[02:01:57] Oh, I do.

[02:01:58] I do think that for a low ranking soldier like Desmond, he quickly becomes friendly with

[02:02:02] the emperor.

[02:02:03] The sisterhood is quite interesting too.

[02:02:06] The end of the episode was quite shocking.

[02:02:08] Can't wait to see what happens next.

[02:02:11] Same with us, Pawson20.

[02:02:14] Do you want to read Abby's?

[02:02:16] Yeah.

[02:02:16] So Abby, who by the way, you can hear her on the, in the silo book club, which is the

[02:02:22] extra subscriber or season pass benefit on the Moulship Dust.

[02:02:27] Um, she says, just watch the episode and I sure need the podcast to explain it to me.

[02:02:32] We're here for you, Abby.

[02:02:33] She's, she's there to talk silent on Dune.

[02:02:36] I only read the first three Frank Herbert books.

[02:02:38] She says in parentheses, what, whatever did this guy Desmond Hart do?

[02:02:43] What is he a space wizard, a red piece priest from a shy, which is a song of ice and fire

[02:02:48] game of Thrones reference.

[02:02:49] And Abby is a very, she's a big reader of those books.

[02:02:52] She's a expert over there.

[02:02:54] Yeah.

[02:02:55] Yeah.

[02:02:55] So, I mean, yeah, as we've said, like, we don't know either.

[02:02:58] This is, this is something new and I think they're playing tricks on us.

[02:03:00] Um, the actor, Travis Famel is totally typecast.

[02:03:05] He seems to be playing the same kind of creepy characters who said the Harkonnens are not

[02:03:09] villains.

[02:03:09] Well, they sure don't, uh, don't lack resolve and ruthlessness.

[02:03:13] So the princess messes with Valia's genetic plans with a side of Atreides.

[02:03:18] Uh, the kid Pruitt Richese wasn't extremely sympathetic either.

[02:03:24] Now, nonetheless, I wonder if Haviko realizes what he's unleashed.

[02:03:29] Was that vision about the worm eating the, those buildings, a prophecy signifying the eventual

[02:03:34] fall of house Carino?

[02:03:36] Mm-hmm.

[02:03:37] Um, well, yeah, but it was on Arrakis.

[02:03:39] So, yeah, but we don't know who's, whose keep that was.

[02:03:43] Mm-hmm.

[02:03:43] We do see the worm knock down a couple of those towers.

[02:03:46] Then we see those same kind of spires, I guess you could say on Wallach 9 in front of the

[02:03:52] Bene Gesserit's, uh, uh, location.

[02:03:55] And with that scene of the worm coming towards those two spires behind it is a building that

[02:04:01] is very reminiscent of the Bene Gesserit building in Wallach 9.

[02:04:03] So, the worm coming for the Bene Gesserit?

[02:04:07] Yeah.

[02:04:08] But it could also-

[02:04:09] Then the one that it, it eats from below is a different architectural design.

[02:04:13] But I'm thinking maybe I'd be suggesting it could be, um, metaphorical rather than a

[02:04:18] literal worm eating a keep that Arrakis will eventually destroy the house dream.

[02:04:24] Yep.

[02:04:25] Um, she says, I'm just throwing speculation here without really knowing anything.

[02:04:28] Great visuals with the eye slash worm to dreams.

[02:04:31] Well, you, you are throwing some very grounded as, you know, more than you admits, uh, speculation

[02:04:38] there.

[02:04:38] So.

[02:04:39] Exactly.

[02:04:39] And the great visuals too, with the eye and the worm dream, we get very much an eye sequence.

[02:04:43] It felt very, uh, rings of power with the stranger and Sauron and a little bit, but we see

[02:04:48] Inez and, um, uh, Asha being pulled apart and we see, it looks like Inez is standing in a pool

[02:04:57] with a red dress and on Wallach 9, there is a pool that looks like that.

[02:05:03] So I, I think she's grounded in Wallach 9 while Inez is being, uh, pulled apart there.

[02:05:08] And then of course the worm coming in, destroying it all.

[02:05:11] May the passing of him may, what is it?

[02:05:13] Oh, I forget the, the prayer now.

[02:05:16] Bless the, bless the maker in his water.

[02:05:18] May his passing cleanse the world.

[02:05:21] Right.

[02:05:22] Uh, J cubed on the discord.

[02:05:24] Not sure how I'm feeling about the first episode.

[02:05:26] I love the setting and all this, but all this feels pretty mellow dramatic to me feels kind

[02:05:31] of how I imagined the sci-fi dune series would have been, but I have not seen that one.

[02:05:37] Listen, the sci-fi dune series gets a little more hate than warranted as usual.

[02:05:41] It's just, it's the special effects that are hilarious in that one.

[02:05:44] And this one has good special effects.

[02:05:46] Right.

[02:05:46] Do you want to, uh, reduce anyone?

[02:05:49] So do 71 says, just watch and color me intrigued.

[02:05:52] I'm liking slow burn, sci-fi solid cast, steady world building, not too much reliance on

[02:05:58] knowing every nuance of the dune series.

[02:06:00] I'm definitely looking forward to next week.

[02:06:03] And Travis from L as Desmond Hart is definitely cornering the market and creepy profit type characters.

[02:06:09] I'm getting serious Rasputin vibes.

[02:06:11] Uh, what the frick was going on with his burning powers, especially as they traverse systems.

[02:06:16] He's definitely a fly in the sisters ointment.

[02:06:20] And yeah, the Rasputin, uh, is definitely, I feel like that was probably a literal inspiration for his character.

[02:06:28] Yeah, it feels like it, doesn't it?

[02:06:30] Desmond was born the same day I was, just saying.

[02:06:32] Oh, interesting.

[02:06:34] Uh, Zatoichi says, the burning is going to, uh, be science-based.

[02:06:38] And my guess, Desmond Hart infected Pruitt and, uh, Kasha at some point?

[02:06:43] Question mark, maybe?

[02:06:44] Question mark?

[02:06:45] I'm with you.

[02:06:46] Yeah, I think we're all along there.

[02:06:49] Furlisa says, episode one was a lot.

[02:06:52] Dune lore dump.

[02:06:52] Liked it.

[02:06:53] Lots of talking.

[02:06:54] Tons of characters.

[02:06:55] Shocking ending.

[02:06:56] Rather interesting.

[02:06:58] Hmm.

[02:06:59] Uh, Groggy One says, the shocking ending kind of reminded me of the first episode of another

[02:07:03] HBO fantasy show.

[02:07:06] We are, I was thinking about this the other day.

[02:07:09] We have Foundation on screen.

[02:07:10] We have, uh, more Tolkien on screen.

[02:07:13] We have, uh, Wheel of Time on screen.

[02:07:16] We have, uh, House of the Dragon on screen.

[02:07:18] We have a lot of big IP out there.

[02:07:20] Never mind DC and MCU stuff.

[02:07:23] That's not, we are in an embarrassment.

[02:07:25] Star Wars, but yeah.

[02:07:25] Oh yeah, and Star Wars.

[02:07:26] Well, come on, Star Wars.

[02:07:28] Like, you're really pissing me off with this.

[02:07:30] Like, hey, we're going to make these series of movies.

[02:07:32] Oh, psych, never mind.

[02:07:33] We're not.

[02:07:34] But I've been enjoying the animation and TV shows.

[02:07:36] Yes, that's true.

[02:07:37] And when we got a Visions 3 coming up and, uh, I don't know, Skeleton Crew, I'm, I'm

[02:07:41] kind of hopeful for it.

[02:07:42] I'm really excited for Skeleton Crew.

[02:07:44] Yeah.

[02:07:44] Absolutely.

[02:07:45] Eon says, I really don't like the world building with the world being slightly different from

[02:07:50] 10,000 years in the future with the same houses, same feuds.

[02:07:54] And the Butlerian Jihad being depicted like Terminator War against the machines.

[02:07:59] I don't disagree.

[02:08:01] Yeah.

[02:08:01] I don't disagree.

[02:08:02] But the same houses, same feuds is, and this is like really where it, maybe Dune is one

[02:08:09] that, you know, you develop an appreciation as you get more lore nerdy.

[02:08:13] Because what's interesting to me is, yes, it's still the Harkonnens and the Atreides, but

[02:08:17] they are in different positions now.

[02:08:19] And they're moving parts around the, the, so it's the same players, but they, it's just,

[02:08:25] you know, and they're still playing on the same chessboard, but it's a different game.

[02:08:28] Right.

[02:08:30] And I, and I get it.

[02:08:31] And I, I understand some of that, that critique.

[02:08:33] And then I would just say, go with it.

[02:08:36] Cause I think underneath there's a lot, a lot of cool themes and, and, uh, uh, storytelling

[02:08:42] yet come.

[02:08:43] Yeah.

[02:08:43] All right.

[02:08:45] Readers of Sisterhood of Dune and Alicia, you have, uh, done a little truth sense on these

[02:08:51] and made sure that they're free.

[02:08:52] No, they're all, they're all safe.

[02:08:53] And actually I don't, not all these people have read Sisterhood of Dune.

[02:08:56] Um, some of them are just referring to the original books, but okay.

[02:08:59] So Jordan says, salut mes amis.

[02:09:02] Um, just wanted to say that I am thrilled.

[02:09:04] You will be covering Dune prophecy.

[02:09:06] I've read every Dune related book to date and outside of Frank, uh, the Frank Herbert originals.

[02:09:11] I much prefer Brian Herbert's prequel writings than his continuation of the original.

[02:09:16] J'ai surprise!

[02:09:18] Way too much cloning in the latter.

[02:09:22] All right.

[02:09:22] You're not wrong there.

[02:09:24] What I loved the most about these prequels though, is the foundation of the Bene Gesserits,

[02:09:29] Mentat and Spacing Guilds.

[02:09:31] I'm really hoping they touch on all of those too.

[02:09:33] And I have to say, so they did say in the official podcast, this is going to be focusing

[02:09:39] on the Sisterhood, which I figured with six episodes, that's what they're doing.

[02:09:43] But I hope this is Alicia speaking.

[02:09:45] I hope that they have more seasons so that they can, you know, cause it's really interesting

[02:09:49] what's going on with the Mentats and Spacing Guild and all this stuff at this point in the timeline.

[02:09:53] But I think this season, just Sisterhood.

[02:09:55] Anyway.

[02:09:55] Also hoping we get the Titans, though.

[02:09:57] I don't remember if they're still around at this point in the story.

[02:10:00] Well, yeah.

[02:10:01] Flashbacks.

[02:10:03] So, yeah.

[02:10:04] We did.

[02:10:04] We saw that, obviously, flashback to the Battle of Corrin.

[02:10:09] So, like I said, I hope we get more of that story too.

[02:10:13] Anyways, just a quick message to thank you, as always, for the amazing lore coverage and

[02:10:18] all of these wonderful IPs.

[02:10:20] Je suis très excité.

[02:10:22] And thank you.

[02:10:23] I'm very glad to hear from you.

[02:10:24] Thank you, Jordan.

[02:10:25] Thanks for being a loyal listener.

[02:10:27] And thanks for writing in.

[02:10:28] We always love your takes.

[02:10:29] I love you making fun of John and his French accent.

[02:10:33] We had a lot of fun during the Doctor Who coverage.

[02:10:36] Absolutely.

[02:10:38] Alicia, on the Discord, how did you get pulled into here?

[02:10:43] I love the book Dune Prophecy.

[02:10:45] It's based on so far, I feel like it's going in a new direction, so I have no idea how this

[02:10:48] is going to land.

[02:10:49] Love getting to meet all the characters.

[02:10:51] Wouldn't have minded a two-episode drop to be able to get in deeper already.

[02:10:56] Ha ha.

[02:10:56] I do not disagree with you on that.

[02:10:59] I think three episodes would have been too much, but a double...

[02:11:01] I mean, as much as it is hell for podcasters to do double episodes without screeners, I

[02:11:07] do think that that would have been good.

[02:11:11] But anyway, six episodes.

[02:11:13] Yeah.

[02:11:14] You've got to stretch it out as much as possible.

[02:11:16] Yeah.

[02:11:16] And we would have been here for like a whole day.

[02:11:20] Exactly.

[02:11:20] Exactly.

[02:11:21] And I'm not complaining about six episodes because if that's what they need to tell the

[02:11:25] story, then that's what they need to tell the story.

[02:11:26] If they do a good job, then cool.

[02:11:28] But then the fan in me is just like, oh man, can I get more?

[02:11:33] There's more story to tell.

[02:11:35] All right.

[02:11:35] Kevin T by email.

[02:11:37] Hi, David and Alicia.

[02:11:37] I've not finished Sisterhood yet.

[02:11:41] We just had a whole conversation about the word yet in our 11z subscriber exclusive podcast

[02:11:48] about our movie of the month that we had, which was High Fidelity.

[02:11:52] And there's a great scene of John Cusack and Jack Black arguing over what the word yet

[02:11:57] means.

[02:11:57] Have you seen Evil Dead 2 yet?

[02:12:02] So Kevin continues liking the show so far, though a bit worried about the potential reliance

[02:12:07] on mentioning Arrakis or showing sandworms to keep newcomers to the universe engaged.

[02:12:12] I think that's a good point.

[02:12:14] You've got to strike a balance between pulling the movie only, the Villeneuve only fans into

[02:12:20] the world, but yet keeping us Duneheads satisfied.

[02:12:25] At the same time, Arrakis is kind of the center of the galaxy, not physically and not politically,

[02:12:32] but financially, commercially, the center of the galaxy.

[02:12:36] And then politically on top of that, right?

[02:12:38] Yeah.

[02:12:39] Because of that.

[02:12:39] Yeah.

[02:12:39] Yeah.

[02:12:40] Otherwise, I like where the show seems to be going.

[02:12:42] Thanks for the great podcast.

[02:12:44] Thanks, Kevin T.

[02:12:44] Hope to hear from you again in the future.

[02:12:47] Do you want to round us out with Brian?

[02:12:48] Yeah.

[02:12:49] So Brian8063 says, it's an excellent first episode.

[02:12:51] I don't recognize Hart's powers from the earlier books because, as I said, Brian's actually,

[02:12:55] he's read the prequel stuff.

[02:12:57] Throwing some inspiration at us, perhaps.

[02:12:59] There were sorceresses from one planet that I brought up, Rosak, that could harness mental

[02:13:06] power and project it out in force, but this is different.

[02:13:09] And yeah, that's why I think they're messing with us.

[02:13:11] I don't think it's actually like psychic powers.

[02:13:14] I think it's a poison or something.

[02:13:18] Yeah.

[02:13:19] I really need it to be grounded in reality.

[02:13:22] I think that's pretty important to me.

[02:13:26] Right.

[02:13:27] That wraps it up.

[02:13:28] Oh, and I want to give a special shout out to Brian as well, along with Aaron.

[02:13:34] They are both Discord moderators for our community, and they're helping out with the Dune show

[02:13:41] guide, along with Nancy.

[02:13:43] Brian is also our lorebrarian.

[02:13:47] We have a blog on our website, and we have an open submission policy.

[02:13:52] So if you feel inspired to write some words and actually shape it into an article, Brian

[02:13:59] is the guy to handle all of that.

[02:14:01] If you go to our website and go to the blog section, there's a post very early on in the

[02:14:06] chronology that talks about the submission policy, and so you can get all the details

[02:14:11] there.

[02:14:11] But we would love to have your words on the website.

[02:14:13] We've got some great articles so far in the past.

[02:14:19] So let's move into our outro really quick.

[02:14:23] Do you want to plug anything that you've got coming up?

[02:14:26] I mean, we've talked about Silo and WolfShift Dust Feed a lot.

[02:14:31] Anything you want to add?

[02:14:32] Well, I just want to remind people real quick that after the outro and after the outro music

[02:14:37] is when we'll do book spoilers.

[02:14:39] So stick around for that if you're interested in that.

[02:14:41] But yeah, so WolfShift Dust currently deeply engaged in the Silo season.

[02:14:47] So on the public feed, we've got the first episode breakdown and a mailbag response to the first episode

[02:14:54] out there.

[02:14:55] And then on the subscriber feed or the Silo season passes, there is access to an additional spoiler

[02:15:04] cast episode, A Tale of Two Rebellions.

[02:15:06] So yeah, that's basically what WolfShift Dust is up to so far.

[02:15:10] And yeah, getting back into with the Star Wars Canon Timeline Project, sweeping through the

[02:15:16] High Republic and also starting a new series where I am actually going to be covering the

[02:15:23] High Republic books with that narration style that I was experimenting with.

[02:15:27] Okay.

[02:15:28] One at a time.

[02:15:29] I've decided that that's easier for the, so that's going to be just for the Canon Padawan

[02:15:32] subscribers.

[02:15:33] Okay.

[02:15:34] That's, yeah, they get a summary and my thoughts on each of the individual books.

[02:15:40] And then later, John and I think Sean and I can talk about the whole High Republic book phases.

[02:15:46] Excellent.

[02:15:47] A couple of our other affiliates, Radioactive Rambling, they are doing Studio Ghibli films.

[02:15:55] And as well as the Red Rising Book Club.

[02:15:58] We got an email.

[02:15:59] What was that show that we got that email about that you just responded to?

[02:16:04] I wonder if that would be a good show for them.

[02:16:06] You just responded to an email.

[02:16:08] Oh, Arcane.

[02:16:09] Arcane.

[02:16:09] Would that be a show for them?

[02:16:10] Yeah.

[02:16:10] I don't know.

[02:16:11] Actually, I think Arcane is a perfect show for them.

[02:16:13] Yeah.

[02:16:14] Okay.

[02:16:14] Maybe we'll ping them about that.

[02:16:16] Are you listening?

[02:16:17] Yeah.

[02:16:18] Are you listening this far, Erin?

[02:16:19] There's interest in Arcane being covered, but we're just so overwhelmed.

[02:16:23] I do watch Arcane, but yeah, we just have all this other stuff going on right now.

[02:16:29] Properly Howard Movie Review is back with a new season, a few good films.

[02:16:34] They are taking the movie A Few Good Men, and then they're taking apart the actors and

[02:16:39] the showrunner or the writers and stuff like that.

[02:16:42] And then using, they had a little movie draft to pick their movies.

[02:16:45] It's a lot of fun.

[02:16:46] They're going to have a great new season.

[02:16:48] And we're going to be doing Severance in the new year with Anthony and Steve.

[02:16:53] We're going to do a four-way podcast, so that's going to be really fun.

[02:16:57] So keep your ears out for that.

[02:17:01] And then, of course, never mind the music.

[02:17:04] And we're about to cross-post one of their episodes this week so that people can get a

[02:17:10] taste of what Nicole and Mark do over on theirs.

[02:17:14] Please go and subscribe.

[02:17:16] They put a lot of work into it.

[02:17:17] If you like Lorehounds, if you like looking under the surface like we do, they do that

[02:17:21] for music, but music and psychology.

[02:17:23] It's really awesome.

[02:17:25] Anyway, their latest episode is Enjoy the Silence by Depeche Mode, which is a good song.

[02:17:32] That's a big nostalgia song for me.

[02:17:34] So I'm going to record a little intro for that, and we're going to drop that into our

[02:17:37] main feed as a little bonus.

[02:17:40] Just one more thing for the Lorehounds feed.

[02:17:43] There's going to be a Wicked One-Shot coming up, not until the beginning of December, because

[02:17:48] it doesn't release here until the beginning of December.

[02:17:51] But if you are going to watch that and you have feedback and thoughts from the movie or

[02:17:55] the books or the musical, then you can send them to lorehounds at thelorehounds.com.

[02:17:59] Love it.

[02:18:00] We also just put out...

[02:18:01] We're crazy over here, though.

[02:18:03] We just put out a Penguin Season Wrap.

[02:18:05] We just put out a Pachinko Part 2.

[02:18:08] We weren't going to do it in one, and then we realized that we had to do it in two.

[02:18:12] Now we realize that we have to do it in three, and now we're talking about a Pachinko

[02:18:15] Book Club.

[02:18:15] Yeah, and Agatha, wrap up the personality coven test is coming out.

[02:18:21] I think what we have to discuss, it's going to be right before or after this episode that

[02:18:26] you're hearing right now.

[02:18:28] Okay, sounds good.

[02:18:29] So tons of stuff.

[02:18:30] Please subscribe or listen however you want.

[02:18:34] But to that end, why don't we thank our Discord server boosters and our Loremaster top tier

[02:18:41] subscribers.

[02:18:42] Alicia, do you want to do the honors?

[02:18:43] I've got some music loaded up here.

[02:18:44] Woohoo!

[02:18:45] Okay.

[02:18:45] Ready?

[02:18:46] Here we go.

[02:18:48] Thank you to our Discord server boosters, Aaron K., Tiller the Thriller, Dork of the

[02:18:52] Ninjas, Doove71, I'm in the middle of battle on Corrin, Athena, I didn't listen to this

[02:18:57] before I loaded it, so I apologize.

[02:18:59] Tina, let's do Nancy M., Ghost Perdition, Richard W., and to our Loremasters, our comrades

[02:19:06] in battle, our chief commanders, Samartian, Michael G., Michelle E., Brian P., SC, Peter O.H.,

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[02:19:39] Okay.

[02:19:40] So Ambience Illusion Matrix Loop 001 is not a file to load in future.

[02:19:44] See, this is why I separated the SFX from the music.

[02:19:49] That's a good point.

[02:19:50] I'm going to, yeah, I have to check yours out.

[02:19:52] Okay.

[02:19:52] So thanks everyone for listening.

[02:19:54] And I don't know, are these podcasts going to make us break our three-hour mark?

[02:19:58] I hope not.

[02:19:59] We'll see you on the next one.

[02:20:01] Spoiler section incoming.

[02:20:04] The Lorehounds Podcast is produced and published by The Lorehounds.

[02:20:07] You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash contact.

[02:20:13] Get early and ad-free access to all Lorehounds Podcasts at patreon.com slash thelorehounds.

[02:20:19] Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.

[02:20:24] Thanks for listening.

[02:20:25] Okay, so we can keep the spoiler section short, but there's a few things that like I was just chomping at the bit to call out.

[02:20:31] And I think that you rightfully, you know, so we in Sisterhood of Dune, the book from the prequel series, one of the first things that you find out about the sisters is this genetic program.

[02:20:46] Well, what's behind the door, David?

[02:20:49] A computer.

[02:20:50] Yeah.

[02:20:50] The sisters are secretly hiding a computer to help them with the index and to do the genetic mapping because it's such a massive trove of data that they need additional support to analyze it and to do their projections, right?

[02:21:09] To run their models forward to see, like, well, what if we did this or what if we did that?

[02:21:14] And there's just no way the Mentats at this stage are just no way capable.

[02:21:19] And there are Bene Gesserit Mentats in the future as well.

[02:21:23] And Paul is, that's an interesting thing about Paul.

[02:21:26] Paul is a Mentat.

[02:21:27] Paul is a Bene Gesserit.

[02:21:28] And he is a sword master.

[02:21:29] By this point, they already have Bene Gesserit sisters in Mentat training, you know?

[02:21:34] Yeah.

[02:21:34] But they can't live up to.

[02:21:38] Yeah, at this stage, they don't have the capability to do it.

[02:21:40] So they use AI to pregenerate that.

[02:21:43] But then in the Sisterhood of Dune books there, and I'm about a third of the way, I kind of like drifted off a little bit, but now I'm like reinvigorated to read again.

[02:21:56] And the Mentat school has an AI personality as well.

[02:22:01] So I don't wonder if they're going to take those two story elements and sort of merge them in some way.

[02:22:08] Yeah, because, well, so Erasmus is the name of the one at the Mentat school.

[02:22:14] And he plays an important role in the story going forward.

[02:22:19] So actually, I just, I wanted to bring up something that comes from the third in these books.

[02:22:24] But it's the last time, and I'm pretty sure, yeah, this would be the last time that a member of the royal family went to join the Bene Gesserit sisterhood was Haviko's aunt, Anna Carino.

[02:22:35] Okay.

[02:22:35] And so she joined, you know, she joined the sisterhood.

[02:22:40] But then she almost, there was difficulty in creating Reverend Mothers.

[02:22:45] So at the beginning of these prequel things, Raquel is the only one.

[02:22:49] She accidentally became a Reverend Mother because one of the many poisonous things on Rosak was given to her.

[02:22:54] And she managed to synthesize it and develop this new power that the Reverend Mothers have to look back in their lineage and all that.

[02:23:01] So she's trying to...

[02:23:03] Other memories.

[02:23:04] Yeah.

[02:23:04] Yeah.

[02:23:04] So she's trying to create other Reverend Mothers, but they're not sure how to replicate it.

[02:23:09] And so sisters keep dying.

[02:23:11] And Anna almost dies, but then she doesn't.

[02:23:14] But then when Anna really does die, it's actually the fault, you could say, of Erasmus, of this AI that the Mentats had that you're speaking of because she thought that they had a special relationship.

[02:23:26] And then, yeah, she and he both die in this Battle of Denali.

[02:23:30] And Roderick, the emperor at the time, Haviko's father, he blames Venport Holdings for the battle taking place at all.

[02:23:38] And it's because of this that they end up negotiating and striking a new deal that forms the Spacing Guild.

[02:23:46] And all the year numbering in Dune is BG before the Guild, AG after the Guild.

[02:23:53] So that death of Anna leads to the last Carino princess to go to the sisterhood leads to the numbering of a new timeline, basically.

[02:24:03] So pretty significant.

[02:24:04] Yeah.

[02:24:04] And I don't wonder if we're not going to get any Guild or Mentat in this series.

[02:24:12] And, I mean, they haven't even hinted at Venport or any of that stuff.

[02:24:16] But Venport doesn't exist anymore.

[02:24:18] But, yeah, I assume they'll mention the Guild.

[02:24:21] Like, we know, like, I don't think they're going to, like, the Sook Doctors are another big school.

[02:24:25] And we know there's going to be a Sook Doctor character because we've seen in the previews a woman with that diamond on her forehead that's from the Sook School of Medicine.

[02:24:33] Descending down out of a ship.

[02:24:34] And then I'm pretty sure we're going to see somebody go through the Spice Agony because we see one of the sisters convulsing on a table.

[02:24:42] And then we have more vision and flashback, or more vision stuff.

[02:24:45] And we see all these weird robed figures coming in and converging on somebody.

[02:24:50] And I really think that's the other memories.

[02:24:52] And that this is the birth of that skill.

[02:24:55] We're going to see that.

[02:24:57] And that's really where...

[02:24:57] Like a flashback to when it happened to Raquel.

[02:25:00] Because that was actually not with the Spice.

[02:25:01] I was with a Rosak poison.

[02:25:03] Interesting.

[02:25:04] Right.

[02:25:04] Because she's under so much duress that she's actually able to...

[02:25:08] Right.

[02:25:08] ...selfly change herself to be able to adapt to the poison.

[02:25:12] Right.

[02:25:12] Right.

[02:25:13] And then in the books, they're actively experimenting with it.

[02:25:17] And that's why the Sook Doctors are involved because they're helping with the research of what is that poison?

[02:25:22] What is this substance that we can do this physiological change with so that we get access to these powers?

[02:25:29] And without killing...

[02:25:31] Because still...

[02:25:31] Without killing the person.

[02:25:33] Yeah.

[02:25:33] Even 10,000 years later, a lot of people still die in the process.

[02:25:36] But certainly at this...

[02:25:37] Before...

[02:25:38] Yeah.

[02:25:38] Because Valia at first, you know, Raquel kind of wants Valia to go through it.

[02:25:42] And obviously she has by this point where we are.

[02:25:44] But at first she's like, let's let a few more guinea pigs go first before I do it.

[02:25:51] So we mentioned Seleuza Secundus a little bit and the atomic disaster.

[02:25:56] You crossed it out, but did you have more details?

[02:25:58] I'm curious.

[02:25:58] Um, no, just that like basically at some point after this, uh, there is a battle there and a family brings atomics and, um, destroys the planet.

[02:26:11] And that's how it becomes that wasteland that's where the Sardaukar are training and, you know, where they become extra hardened soldiers because it's such a terrible climate or such a terrible place.

[02:26:23] Um, and then the emperor's family, they relocate to another lush planet.

[02:26:28] They're fine.

[02:26:30] Um, so yeah, I just wonder.

[02:26:32] Yeah.

[02:26:32] Yeah.

[02:26:33] Yeah.

[02:26:33] No, that's really important because the, the environment, the harsh environment is what trains the, uh, those conditions are what condition the soldiers to be so tough and to be the terror known as the terror troops.

[02:26:44] It's, it's another version of, you know, what we were just talking about with the Reverend mothers and the creation with the spice agony.

[02:26:50] It's what does not kill you makes you stronger.

[02:26:52] Yeah.

[02:26:53] Basically.

[02:26:54] You have Gola.

[02:26:56] Well, yeah, this is the thing, but this is something, a question I've been seeing people raising is, is Desmond a Gola, which for people who don't know, this is sort of like a, it sounds like.

[02:27:09] Yeah.

[02:27:11] Yeah.

[02:27:11] Because it's like a recreation of a, someone who's died basically.

[02:27:15] And they're like, is that what happened with Desmond?

[02:27:17] I don't think it's the case.

[02:27:18] This is something that's from the sequel, the original sequel books.

[02:27:23] Um, yeah, I, I, I doubt it'll be that, but who knows?

[02:27:27] Just saying people, this is what people are wondering.

[02:27:29] So just wanted to.

[02:27:31] Acknowledge it.

[02:27:32] Yeah.

[02:27:33] I am not, uh, I, cause we don't have the Benny Tilex.

[02:27:37] We don't have any of Ix, we don't have any of that stuff.

[02:27:40] And those are the people, they're the ones who created this technology.

[02:27:44] We don't have the tanks, the axolotl tank, all of that stuff.

[02:27:46] So it's way too early for that.

[02:27:49] I mean, like you said, we never know.

[02:27:50] We could be completely off base on that, but I would be surprised.

[02:27:53] I would be very shocked if they brought in Gola stuff at this stage.

[02:27:57] Yeah.

[02:27:57] So, uh, Tyrion Arfel.

[02:28:00] They did bring in Tyrion Arfel, yeah.

[02:28:02] Yes.

[02:28:03] So, uh, the cloud darkness of holy judgment or cloud darkness at the end of the universe,

[02:28:11] the end of mankind that was averted by dun, dun, dun, Leo II and the golden path.

[02:28:20] We actually get to say it, the tyrant.

[02:28:24] And so do we think that that's whose eyes are in the sky, Lito II?

[02:28:30] Man, I don't know.

[02:28:31] There's a book in the sequels called God Emperor Dune, and this sure felt hella God Emperor Dune.

[02:28:37] Oh, man.

[02:28:39] And the fact that they use the word tyrant just drives me there because that is the thing,

[02:28:44] is that the tyrant tasks the Bene Gesserit.

[02:28:46] He punishes them to teach them to put back the missing ingredient that they've been missing all along for their goals.

[02:28:56] But man, it was so, so golden path stuff, and I just don't know what to think.

[02:29:01] Would you want to explain the golden path?

[02:29:03] Well, I mean, I think in short, it's this narrow potential for the human species to survive as a species,

[02:29:12] not even as a dislocated, broken up species, but just to be able to survive in general.

[02:29:19] Paul's son has to, this is weird shit that Frank gets into, merge with a worm and become a worm-human hybrid that has prescience.

[02:29:30] God Emperor.

[02:29:31] Yeah.

[02:29:31] The God Emperor, and has the ability to see across time and space.

[02:29:36] The ability of prescience drove Paul mad, but his son was able to harness the power, but only by merging himself with the worm body.

[02:29:47] And so he's able to live this really long time, and he tasks the Bene Gesserit to help him walk the golden path,

[02:29:56] which is this really convoluted, complex step by step by step to get humanity through this crisis moment to where they can survive as a species.

[02:30:07] Did I explain that right?

[02:30:09] Yeah.

[02:30:09] No, I think it's a good explanation.

[02:30:10] I don't think I've ever tried to explain the golden path to another living human being.

[02:30:14] It's only existing in my head.

[02:30:15] But I was, I mean, of course I expected them to reference stuff from the prequels,

[02:30:20] but I was like, I was pleasantly surprised that they are, they're bringing, you know,

[02:30:25] because we imagine the prophecy is the Mission Hour Protectiva, which we've talked about in previous episodes.

[02:30:31] Basically, the Bene Gesserit put out this concept into the galaxy that sort of softens a bed for them to land on any planet by saying,

[02:30:39] look for these signs that happen to be Bene Gesserit signs, you know?

[02:30:42] Look for someone who learns your ways just by watching, things like that.

[02:30:46] Or knows your ways as if born to them.

[02:30:49] Which is part of the Panopilia Prophetica, which is even a larger plan that the Missionary Practiciva is part of.

[02:30:57] Right.

[02:30:57] So, I mean, so I knew that they obviously they are setting that stuff up,

[02:31:02] but just to show how this is one whole full circle story covering a Deca Millennia,

[02:31:09] at least more because the Lido 2 is around for a while.

[02:31:12] So, I just, yeah, I really appreciate that, you know, that this is, this is a adaptation of the entire universe of lore.

[02:31:24] Because we all freaked out when, when we heard that we were like, oh, I freaked out less about Arfel and more about Tyrant.

[02:31:32] That's the one that really jumped up.

[02:31:33] For me, it was the eyes in the sky.

[02:31:34] I was like, what?

[02:31:36] Yeah.

[02:31:37] Yeah.

[02:31:38] So, and I don't wonder if there's not going to be a series of Reckonings, right?

[02:31:43] So that there's going to be a crisis moment in this series, but at the same time, that doesn't invalidate or close out the bigger Reckoning,

[02:31:50] which is the Golden Path, Lido 2 and the Golden Path.

[02:31:53] Mm-hmm.

[02:31:55] But yeah, that was super exciting.

[02:31:57] Yeah.

[02:31:57] But that was my, because when she said about the burning Reckoning, well, she said Valia would be there to see it.

[02:32:03] And obviously, Valia is not around 10,000 years later.

[02:32:05] Sorry, not a spoiler.

[02:32:09] But yeah, so maybe she sees a burning Reckoning in the short term, because obviously, yeah,

[02:32:13] the first thing I think of is the overall where things are going.

[02:32:17] Yeah.

[02:32:18] Exactly.

[02:32:18] All right.

[02:32:19] Well, cool.

[02:32:20] I hope we get some more Leo pointing memes in episode two.

[02:32:24] We'll see you then.

[02:32:25] Thanks, Alicia.

[02:32:26] Talk to you soon.

[02:32:27] Thank you.

[02:32:27] Bye.