Our Top 10 Werewolf Movies of All Time (& the history behind them)

[00:00:23] Happy Halloween! And welcome to a special Spooktober edition of Wool-Shift-Dust. This year, to prep for Robert Eggers' new movie Werewolf, releasing in December, we're looking back at the evolution of werewolf storytelling overall, and putting together our list of the Top 10 Werewolf Movies ever made.

[00:00:43] I'm joined in this endeavor by fellow Werewolf Cinema fan Anthony, best known for his Electric Bookaloo podcast, which dives deep into George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire books, one chapter at a time, as well as Properly Howard on the Lorehounds Network, which he hosts with his lifelong friend, fellow film lover, and professional comedian Steve, and where they have just begun a new season of unlikely double features.

[00:01:08] Book Club members will receive an additional episode in November, zooming in on the werewolf stories of medieval Britain and Brittany, the stories that serve as the most direct inspiration for the new Eggers film. And fear not, Silo fans, those final episodes have been delayed, but they are still coming, starting with an epic season-wrap mailbag next week that clocked in at three and a half hours of recording time. So, that's taking some time to edit, but it'll be coming your way next week.

[00:01:37] But first, let's pull Anthony into the conversation, because there's a wolf moon on the rise. So, welcome, Maester Anthony of Electric Bookaloo and Properly Howard fame. How are you doing? I'm excellent. I'm ready. I'm excited to talk about one of my favorite topics.

[00:02:02] Do you want to tell listeners about, we were just discussing your atmospheric environment for this recording. Yeah, I'm sitting in a truck outside of my childhood home. We've relocated to California to be closer to family, and I don't have a studio space or really an office. I just kind of have to kind of impromptu find places to record.

[00:02:29] And it's pretty early in the morning for me, so I didn't want to wake up my wife, who's been a little bit under the weather. And so I thought, why not try the truck? So right now, it's before sunrise. I'm in my father's truck. And it's a little eerie, but the sun is coming. So it'll be less eerie soon. And my view is a view in the truck, dark truck, with the background of trees.

[00:02:59] Yes, right, yeah. Where a werewolf might be hiding. Exactly, exactly. Very, I don't know about you, but I have been watching and re-watching a bunch of werewolf movies recently in anticipation of this. Oh, yeah. But yeah, I asked you here because you also like werewolf movies. I love werewolf movies, yeah. And we're both looking forward to Robert Eggers' Werewolf, which will be released December 25th.

[00:03:28] So we'll get back together to talk about that probably. This started January due to holidays and everything. And in the meantime, subscribers will get an extra book club episode about medieval werewolf stories with the usual spooktober enhanced dramatic reading of one of them, as always. But today, we're going to start with a bit of werewolf history in terms of the lore.

[00:03:55] But then we're going to jump into the cinematic side of things and talk specifically werewolf movies. So you love werewolf movies. What is why? What is your background with werewolf movies? What draws you to them? What's your background with the mythology in general? So I love werewolf mythology. I do love werewolf movies.

[00:04:19] I looked at IDMB and it looks like there's 238 labeled werewolf movies. And I maybe have seen 30 of these things. So I am not an expert on these things. But I do want to watch all of them. So I think my love for werewolf movies sort of outpaces my, I guess, my knowledge of classic horror. It really is. You are not suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. But that's, yeah.

[00:04:49] Yeah. No, not in this particular case. But I'm not immune to that. But I would say that I've done a lot of research on werewolf lore in ancient history. And a bit in medieval stuff. And, you know, the modern, many of the modern tropes in werewolf movies are very modern.

[00:05:18] You know, the earliest werewolf story is in, well, I don't even know if it's a werewolf story. But it is in the Gilgamesh epic, which is, I mean, we're talking pre-Bible stuff. And basically, this goddess gets tired of the shepherd's devotion to her. And she just kind of nonchalantly turns him into a wolf. And then he gets ripped apart by hounds.

[00:05:45] So that's kind of our first story about a guy who turns into a wolf. And then the Greeks have a version of this where Zeus turns a guy into a wolf for seven years. Because he tries to feed Zeus' son. Yeah. He tries to feed Zeus his own son. Like, what? Get that guy.

[00:06:09] And I do, and I love, I love that most of the time the werewolf story is a curse. Mm-hmm. And so I like the idea of kind of the cursed man trope. I'm really into that. So I love that. My favorite werewolf story is Irish.

[00:06:32] It's about a priest who gets washed up in a part of the country that not a lot of people go. And he's at a campfire, and a wolf comes up to him and starts talking to him and says that he and his wife have been turned into, you know, wolf in form. But they're going to die soon, and so he really wants last rites. And so he has to convince the priest to give him last rites.

[00:07:02] So the priest goes back to the cave, and then the wife is there. And it kind of, like, unzips her skin, and you see, like, an old frail woman in the skin. And the priest kind of protests, I can't do this. You know, these are creatures of the devil. I can't really, I wouldn't be a good priest if I gave you last rites.

[00:07:24] And then finally he does it, and then the wolf convinces him to give both husband and wife holy communion, which is, oh my gosh, that would just be sacrilege. And then the story kind of ends on a really funny note. I mean, basically this guy has to go to trial and be charged for heresy because he gave a holy communion to creatures of the devil.

[00:07:53] I think it's a hilarious story. And, you know, so there, I mean, there's been a lot of men and women turning into wolves stories over the years. And then my favorite story that's ever been written, I think, is Tolkien's of Baron and Luthien. And there's some really, really strong werewolf imagery in that story, too, which I love.

[00:08:23] So I love the, I love all the tropes. I love the idea of the werewolf. I, in terms of classic horror, like I don't, I've never seen like Werewolf of London. I've never seen. I was wondering if that would end up on your list. I have seen it. Oh, no. Oh, you mean, sorry. The, I was thinking. Yeah. Okay. Werewolf of London as in the 30s one versus. 1938.

[00:08:53] Right. I think it's called The Werewolf of London or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. No, that. Well, we'll see where that lands yet. I have seen that one. It's just called Werewolf of London from 1935. Yeah. Okay. 1935. Yeah, sure. So I've never seen that. That's the first talkie film, werewolf film. Yes. I would love to see that, but I just have not gotten around to it. So I've got a lot of gaps in my filmic werewolf lore.

[00:09:22] But, you know, I'm sort of like circling a lot of these movies that I'd love to see. Okay. What about you? What's your history here? Yeah. I've always been drawn to wolves on the one hand, which is, it's funny that like werewolf movies often don't treat wolves well and, you know, paints them as monsters and they die horribly and things like that. But then again, it's also this sort of other thing.

[00:09:47] But also at the same time, I, even before I started to watch scary movies or rather like almost mostly before I started to watch scary movies, I had these horrendous nightmares as a child. And one of the recurring themes was a werewolf would come and eat everyone that I loved while I watched. As a, and as a very small child, I was, I was dreaming this and like crawling into my parents' bed at night and stuff.

[00:10:15] Um, and, um, for some reason when I started to watch horror movies, and I do know what this reason is now because I studied psychology, um, in part to understand things like this, but I, I started to have less of these dreams, or at least I used to be, I would, I was able to take control of them in a lucid way. And, um, in psychology study, I learned, yeah, that watching horror movies, especially, you

[00:10:43] know, horror movies that empower characters you identify with or playing video games where you can take control of the action can actually help with nightmares like these because, um, you, your brain is introduced to the idea that you can control the situation because nightmares are in general, just your brain rehearsing its anxieties. Um, and you can't, usually you can't control your dream. Um, I, I used to be a lot better at it.

[00:11:10] But it's, uh, I'm definitely still probably above average when it comes to lucid dreaming. But when I was young, I could just like stand in front of a mirror in my dream and be like, and now I've changed my clothes, you know? So for you, the werewolf movie was an attempt to almost solve an anxiety. Yes, exactly.

[00:11:36] It, it, when I started watching horror movies in general and then werewolf was this specific thing tied to these nightmares I had as a child. Um, it was a way of overcoming anxiety. Yeah. And, and then as I got older, I got more interested in monster movies in general and the sort of, um, uh, just the idea of, of representations of humanity and sociology and all of that. Um, I am into history.

[00:12:03] Anyone who listens to this podcast know that, uh, knows that I am into like monster history, folklore history. And so indeed werewolves tale as old as time. Um, you brought up Gilgamesh. Um, there's also, I know there's some biblical stories. You would know more about that than I would. Yeah. I don't remember any, uh, biblical stories of a person turning into a wolf. There is an ancient Jewish story about a king who is forced to turn into a beast of some

[00:12:33] kind. Okay. But yeah, no, and, and there is a fair amount of, um, sort of intersections between Jewish superstition and the werewolf story as well. Um, although probably not, uh, probably not biblical, but, um, sort of post-biblical Jewish interest in the werewolf lore. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay.

[00:13:00] I know more about the Greek mythology side where the most famous one you mentioned is the, about that king of Arcadia, um, who fed Zeus his own son to, to test whether Zeus could tell that it was his son. And they're like, really, you just jumped to kill your own son to test the omnipotence of a God. Uh, there's, seems like there's, you know, you could have tried to hide poop in the food or something. I don't know. There's like a million other things you could have done.

[00:13:31] No, I think that that, no, I think that there's something about, um, I mean, look, it's Greek mythology, so it's always going to be cranked to 11. Right. But, um, uh, there is something about, I think, uh, testing guess right. And I think that, um, if, if, if your listeners are familiar with the last season of Game of Thrones, I think that there's a little thing there with Arya Stark, who is herself kind of werewolf adjacent.

[00:14:00] Mm-hmm. And she ends up feeding, uh, Walder Frey his sons. Right. To enact revenge. So it's almost like a full reversal of the Zeus story. Um, so anyway, I, I like, I like that trope. There's also a story in, uh, from French medieval literature where there's a knight who turns into a wolf at night. Bisclavret Yes, that's right.

[00:14:26] And the reason why he turns into a wolf, or the reason why he turns back into a human, is that he just puts his human clothes back on. But his wife finds out that he's been sneaking out and turning into a wolf. And so she sneaks out after him, steals his clothing. And without the clothing, he can't turn back. Mm-hmm. And so now he's just kind of this chivalrous wolf who's hanging about the court and, uh,

[00:14:54] you know, acting very human-like, but in wolf form. Mm-hmm. Um, anyway, I, you know, I think at that point we'll probably have some kind of metaphor for sort of carnality, you know, the, you know, the, the, the wolfish nature in every man in terms of his sexuality being played with. But, uh, you know, there's, there's some interesting, you know, misogyny that goes into these stories too. Mm-hmm.

[00:15:22] You know, even back when Gilgamesh, you blame it on this, this goddess who, who turns him into a wolf and, you know, there's various witches that do this throughout history. Yeah. Um, there's, um, as you said, there's this curse component and especially the earliest stories, like you mentioned Gilgamesh or the Greek myths. Um, there's, and then it feels like in the medieval era, we're getting more into, as you're

[00:15:49] saying, suggesting this sort of sociological exploration, um, which is definitely something I'm going to, because so Egger's new film, Verhof, is set explicitly during the medieval era and is going to be inspired by these British and Breton stories that we've made some oblique references to. I will be deep diving into them in this, uh, separate podcast, but it, yeah, we do see indeed this more explicitly sociological.

[00:16:18] And then at the same time, uh, we see in the Viking sagas, um, well, look to another Egger's film, The Northman does a great representation about how they saw, uh, it, this is not like an actual werewolf story, The Northman, but they show how the hunters would, you know, really do these kind of ritualistic, uh, performances. Yeah, pretend to be canine, right? Yeah, they would put on the, uh, skins of wolves and dance around the fire as they do in that movie.

[00:16:49] So, and then that's sort of, that's the side of the werewolf mythology that's about, um, harnessing the ferociousness in terms of being a warrior in this sense. But then also, as you're saying, there's, um, it's interesting the way that werewolf stories play with gender. Like, uh, in the real world, werewolf, uh, persecution was caught up in the witch trials. So that's right.

[00:17:16] Often, you know, they, they would, um, there were lots of, uh, Marilyn and I talked about, especially in the witches, uh, episode that, that, um, a lot of men were accused of witchcraft, especially in places like Iceland. Uh, but also it would be gendered in a way women were witches, men were werewolves, uh, all get burned, that sort of thing. Right. And I think that there is something in the medieval period that begins to, when everything

[00:17:42] gets, gets put through the lens of theology, there is a sense in which the devil is thought of as this predator. And the part, the way that you would encounter the, this particular predator would be outside of the church and outside of the city. And so there's almost this nature versus church mythology that gets baked into the werewolf story.

[00:18:11] So it's like, you know, Dante discovers hell because he's just wandering around and he falls in a hole, finds a hole, you know, out in the, out in the, the nature. So there's a sense in which the werewolf is now a creature of the devil. And so you can kind of, if everything in, in your sort of worldview is either good or evil,

[00:18:34] black and white, the wolf very easily falls into the evil part because it's a, it's sort of the biggest and most ferocious predator in your encounter with nature. Mm-hmm. And so I think that this is why, and I know that you were going to talk about this in a, in a little while, so I don't want to step on that, but. No, no, please. You're going to talk about the beast of.

[00:19:00] I, I really do think that there's a, there's a reason why wolves are portrayed as sort of human killing monsters in a lot of these stories. Um, and that is sort of the, the theological lens that the medieval period put the wolf through. And so, you know, I guess modern natural studies, scientific studies, we don't see wolves as

[00:19:27] sort of a real, a major threat to humanity. Um, in fact, you know, if anything, humanity is a threat to the wolf. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But that wasn't their lore. And so I think that the werewolf stories kind of emerge from the, sort of the anxiety over nature, the, the chaos of, of the uncivilized beyond the border and that which you associate with the devil. Mm-hmm.

[00:19:57] It's, it's interesting in medieval era, you see that people seem to have really believed in the existence of werewolves. Like, to them, it was the, one of the most real of the monsters. And there's this famous, uh, 19th century story from France, the beast of Gatova. Yes. Um, and that this is, you know, a real series of deaths that occurred and that are collectively,

[00:20:28] you know, people who want to look for evidence of a werewolf in real life will often point first to that story. Do you know much about that story or have any thoughts? Is that, is the brotherhood of the wolf, the French movie? Yeah. Is that what that was based on? Okay. Mm-hmm. So I've seen that movie and I like that movie. Um, and I think it's just, it's, it's kind of based off of a lot of rumors of sort of the, the series of murders that happened in France in the 1700s.

[00:20:56] And aside from that, I don't know a lot about it. Um, I mean, we won't linger on it too much here unless, uh, one of those films that touches on it comes up, but that's, it's just to say that it is something that people looked for in real life. But at the same time, it's interesting that 19th century was obviously a high point for Gothic literature. Um, this is when, you know, I've already talked about, uh, the vampire and Dracula and Frankenstein

[00:21:20] and, you know, these are all coming out, but, um, we don't, werewolf literature exists, but we don't really get what's considered the seminal werewolf novel until the werewolf of Paris in 1933 written by Guy Endor, which is not related to any movie with Paris in the name. Um, the curse of the werewolf from 1961, the hammer werewolf film is the one that's most directly

[00:21:48] an adaptation of it, but you will, you see a lot of lore. That's, that's a thing, uh, a book that pulled together a lot of prior lore and, and codified it. And, um, you see a lot of it that referenced in later films as well, but it feels to me like this is more of a cinematic monster than a literary monster overall. Absolutely. And I think that the analog here is Frankenstein. Mm-hmm.

[00:22:16] You know, I think that most people's popular imagination of Frankenstein really borrows from the early Frankenstein films. Mm-hmm. Although some films have tried to correct that and tried to grab onto Mary Shelley's version of the story a little bit better. See my whole series last year. Yes. Right, right, right. So I think that, I think that the werewolf story was almost, you could almost view it as

[00:22:43] sort of half-baked or un, like, unfulfilled until it hit the silver screen. And really that's when we got the whole thing fleshed out, pun intended, uh, better.

[00:22:59] And, you know, a lot of the things like, you know, only turning wolfish during the full moon or, uh, you know, the silver bullet mythology, all that kind of stuff sort of finds fruition in, in, in film stories. Whereas, like, if you looked at, I don't know, are you familiar with the story, um, Wagner the werewolf? No. Okay. I was reading this a little bit, um, yesterday.

[00:23:26] Uh, I'm forgetting the author, but this is sort of written in the 1800s. You know, it's a, it's a guy who makes a pact with the devil for a natural long life. And then, of course, the devil tricks him and turns him, he has to turn into a wolf at the, at the, I think it's the last day of every month or something like that.

[00:23:51] So, that, it, that almost foreshadows the werewolf as we know him on film, but still not fully baked yet. Mm-hmm. So, um, anyway, I think that, uh, I think this is, it's, this is a great topic to discuss in a movie podcast because there's a lot of werewolf literature throughout the centuries. Mm-hmm.

[00:24:17] And yet, really, the werewolves that are, that exist in popular imagination are these silver screen depictions that, they sort of exist in our heads. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I tried to, you mentioned you looked and found a list that had 200 and something films. 238, I think. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. I, I put together my own list of, uh, films that are either significant or were recommended to me one way or another. Yeah. I came up with 125 movies.

[00:24:47] Okay. Um, and so I, like, I didn't include the first 1913 silent film, The Werewolf, because it's lost, but I did include the 1925 silent film, um, was it Wolf Blood? Because it is not lost. I've seen it. Okay. Um, and, and just going chronologically from there. So I'll link that in the show notes if anyone wants to see it. I've seen, uh, apparently, let me see, uh, 40, no, 38% of it. So. Okay. All right.

[00:25:15] So, yeah, it's just, it is a vast, uh, still a lot of movies to watch. But when you compare it to vampire movies, especially zombie movies, or even Frankenstein, where each of those have hundreds and hundreds of movies, it does seem like werewolf lore for some reason. Although it feels more grounded in certain ways. It also, um, is considered like the little brother of these other monsters and others. I think so.

[00:25:45] I think so. Yeah. And, and it's interesting that it's different from the others in that, um, most of those other monsters I just mentioned are all undead. Whereas a werewolf is alive. And. Werewolf is alive. And yet he kind of exists on this, in this liminal space. He's either on the outskirts of society or, um, he is, you know, he's cursed in, in a way. Yeah. He's cursed.

[00:26:14] Usually the werewolf has been cursed, uh, with, and, and, you know, it's kind of a, the, the other side of the superhero story. It's like cursed with unbelievable power and yet lack of volition. Like you don't, you don't get to choose when you turn usually, and you don't get to choose who you murder.

[00:26:38] And, um, so this, this is, uh, this is sort of the dark heart of, of, of, of, of humankind that's sort of emerging. Uh, and, you know, whereas, you know, the vampire, the vampire can kind of be more subtle. Mm-hmm. So maybe that lends itself to storytelling a little bit better. Well, it's interesting.

[00:27:01] If you look at like classic monster movies, um, it's usually the, the vampire characters and the werewolf characters who are the protagonists because they are the most human, the most, uh, verbal. But they are indeed, as you say, they're of two worlds. And maybe that's another reason why werewolves interest me because I've always felt torn between two worlds. I have two nationalities, you know, grew up between two families, that kind of thing. And werewolves also, they have that, they're of the monster world and of the human world at the same time.

[00:27:30] And so it, it makes you not fully part of either, but, uh, also part of both. Right. What do you think about when people call Jekyll and Hyde a werewolf story? I mean, I, I like that. I think that, I mean, it's got all, it's got everything you want in a werewolf story except for the wolf part, right? So, so for you and the, for you and I, we love wolves.

[00:28:00] And so it's sort of like, yeah, but you missed the best part. We want to see the wolf. We want to see the wolves. Um, but it does have that, you know, I, all right. So I wrote down this quote and the reason why I know this quote is because George Martin loves this quote. It's from William Faulkner. And he said, the only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:27] And I think that the werewolf story is just the perfect embodiment of that. And it sort of, it's sort of like strips it down to, you know, very, very basic polar opposites. But it has in the mythology baked in the heart of the human in conflict. Mm-hmm. And so I think that that's exactly what you're getting at with Jekyll and Hyde.

[00:28:57] Um, now you could, it could be that's a little bit too broad of a genre distinction. Like, I don't, are you familiar with the, the cartoon sci-fi, the Iron Giant? Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. I love the Iron Giant. This is a Brad Bird movie. Mm-hmm. Um, it's, it's one of my favorite films.

[00:29:18] And you could view the, that as a werewolf movie too, if we are going to broaden that genre, uh, distinction that far. And I think maybe that's too far. Right. But at the same time, it's like, that's the, the, the, you know, the robot absolutely does have that Jekyll and Hyde kind of duality. Yeah.

[00:29:41] I think the Jekyll and Hyde aspect gets at what, um, a lot of people see as the core of it is, is that, uh, werewolf nature, it's, it's about, uh, this duality. It's about suppressing your id, you know, basically to use those terms, um, and, and putting on the mask of, of being, of being something else.

[00:30:05] And it's basically the beast within breaks containment because you can't, and that's what the whole Jekyll and Hyde story is about is you cannot, this man pretends to be a saint, but he cannot deny the beast within. Um, so in that sense, yeah, I, um, I don't have any Jekyll and Hyde movies on any werewolf lists, uh, today or in the letterbox list I linked.

[00:30:29] Uh, but I see, I think it's an interesting way to think about a type of storytelling that werewolf stories are used to tell. I think that's true. And I think that the, one of the key things about the werewolf is that I think we've all experienced that moment where we think, damn it, why did I do that? Or damn it, why did I say that? Like that, that was me saying those things or doing those things. Hmm. Hmm.

[00:30:58] But that is at cross purposes with who I want to be, with what I think would be a healthy thing to do or say in a relationship. Hmm. And it just came out of me. Hmm. And I think that, you know, every now and again, you know, I, I, as, as a parent that sometimes that happens, I'm like, damn it. Like, why did I, why did I turn into my parents just then? You know, you know, what, why, why was I, why was I so upset over something?

[00:31:27] Why was I so trivial and so trivial? And why did I lash out in that way? And from time to time, then your brain kind of has to cycle through. Okay. Do I justify that? Do I, do I tell myself, well, that was actually just, I was, I was righteous anger or, or do I actually go deeper within and say, okay, what am I not dealing with deep down?

[00:31:58] Mm-hmm. That's a manifestation of me, which I didn't know existed before now. So I think that there's something about the werewolf mythology that kind of taps into that psychological angst.

[00:32:15] And another interesting theme that comes up again and again, and within various shades, and this gets into the gender issues we hinted at is, is this, um, werewolves as a stand in for subversive sexuality or sexual awakenings? Mm-hmm.

[00:32:36] And then there's also, on the other hand, like feminist reinterpretations of werewolf movies where it's women reclaiming their sexuality or, um, ginger snaps is, is a popular feminist, you know, female oriented were, werewolf movie. Mm-hmm.

[00:33:22] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Puberty is a great example because it is one of those times in your life where your body feels like it's doing things that are out of your control. And because of that, you're now acting in certain ways that seem foreign to you, right? So it sort of introduces a new kind of duality that you're not familiar with.

[00:33:45] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And then, uh, I guess my other third favorite, uh, interpretation is there, I noticed a lot of movies or books have a throwaway line, like, but there haven't been wolves here for decades or centuries. Mm-hmm.

[00:34:32] It's interesting to see this because it's sort of, when you see Japanese werewolf movies, it's like people are painted as an outsider in one's own land. Mm-hmm. Um, because the wolves are not from there. And so if you are a woman and you are behaving like this, then you are not even Japanese, you know?

[00:34:51] Yeah. Yeah. There is a certain exoticism in a lot of these werewolf stories, uh, you know, where you have to explain how the monster came to be. Right. And so it's probably usually some kind of foreign, ancient foreign evil. Mm-hmm. Or ancient foreign magic. And so it's interesting that, I've not seen any of these Japanese movies you're talking about, but it's interesting that.

[00:35:18] You see it in other, Britain too, they're also like, we haven't, we got rid of the wolves. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And in Western lore, it's like they come from, uh, you know, uh, the Middle East or Tibet or whatever. Um, it's interesting that the Japanese have something similar to that. Right. It's kind of a foreign exoticism.

[00:35:41] Well, yeah. So I think that this is actually a more versatile subgenre than people might think, but I know you identified three types of werewolf movies. You want to share what they are? Yeah. So I don't know if this is a, like I said, I, I don't, I, I'm not an expert on werewolf movies, but in my experience, I've kind of classified this as number one, sort of the classic monster movie.

[00:36:06] Number two, the mystery box, um, or number three, the psychological thriller. Okay. So the first, the monster movie, it sends a lean into classic devil among us horror. And there's usually like an ancient evil that's unleashed and you got, you know, it's a monster movie. So you got all the slasher tropes and the, you know, the jump scares.

[00:36:33] And usually in these movies, the, the monster is revealed early in the plot. And then the, the story is about overcoming the, the monster. Um, so for instance, like I think, um, the, the first, the howling is, is a little bit one of, one of these movies. Um, I don't know if you've, I've just, I've just watched the howling very recently. Yeah, me too.

[00:37:02] And it's, it's kind of an interesting sort of, um, it's, it's an interesting mythology. I, I kind of, I'm interested in the movie. The movie itself, I think is, is, is, it's very, very bad. Do you think? Oh, I, I think I, I, I'm not a fan of that. Okay. Okay. So not going to be on your top list.

[00:37:25] It's not going to be on my top five for sure, but I do think that there's some interesting things about it. Um, and, and yet it does, it does kind of play with psychology. You know, you've got an actual, like, uh, you know, uh, psychologist or psychiatrist who's part of the plot, but it's a monster film.

[00:38:13] Mm-hmm. It's trying to reveal the mystery. And so the film, the plot of the film is about discovering the werewolf. And so in this kind of story, the monster is kind of revealed toward the climax of the film. And I'm thinking, like, I don't know if, um, there's this movie called wolves with Jason Momoa. I'm aware of it. I don't think I've seen it.

[00:38:43] Okay. It's pretty bad. It's another bad one, but I, you know, I love all of these movies. I want you to say, like, I, there's really bad werewolf movies that I totally get behind. Oh, I, I have a one in my top five that it's going to be a very hot take. I'm sure.

[00:39:00] Okay. So yeah, there are movies that I, that I know are like with my brain. I know that they're bad, but they somehow they've wormed their way into like my soul. And so they're just kind of part of me now. Um, wolves with Momoa is not one of these. It's just, it's just kind of a bad movie.

[00:39:19] Um, but there's, you know, it's like, there's this, this, this town with this, with a deep, dark secret. Um, that one also kind of plays with puberty. And then the third option that I've come up with is the psychological thriller. And I really liked these the best. Um, this explores sort of the, a wolfish transformation of the central character.

[00:39:45] And so in this kind of movie, you kind of make a meal of the, the, the psychological conflict that, that sort of in, in the human heart. Mm hmm. Um, so anyway, I, like I said, a lot of these movies have a lot of, have all three of these things or, or a combination of these things. But usually with werewolf movies, it's like you're leaning into one of these more than the others. Mm hmm.

[00:40:11] Um, and what I, what I didn't write down, but I'm, I'm kind of real, I kind of realized last night when I was rewatching a couple of these films. Is that there's a strand of horror film that is just straight comedy. Oh yeah. And the werewolf, the werewolf is not immune to this. So, you know, one of my favorite movies is going to sort of make my top five is just a straight comedy.

[00:40:41] Mm hmm. And, um, so I, and I do think that that's kind of fun because there is something absurd about, you know, the old, this old notion. And so I like movies that kind of lean into the absurdity. So I, I didn't quite, I didn't put that in my sort of my tripartite, uh, you know, uh, list of werewolf movies.

[00:41:04] But I do think that there, there are werewolf films that are just straight comedies and I appreciate those as much as any others. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely have a couple on my list. So, all right. That, that sets us up. Uh, we are going to take a quick break here. When we come back, we're going to start making our list of top 10 werewolf movies. Yes.

[00:41:37] All right. And we are back and it's time to make our top 10 list. Now, of course, all disclaimers. We've already said we have not seen every werewolf movie in existence. If you have, we would love to hear from you. Um, but I doubt many of you have. So these are films that we love. That you might also love if you, uh, are intrigued by what we have to say about them. So what we're going to do is we are working together to make a list of 10 unique movies. Yeah.

[00:42:06] And we're each contributing five to that list. So that means we'll take turns and, and, uh, Anthony's a guest. You'll start first and we'll be counting down from our fifth favorite to our first favorite. Okay.

[00:42:18] Okay. But because we want unique movies, when one of us announces a movie, the other will say if that movie is also on their list. And if that movie is ranked higher on the other person's list, then you, uh, forfeit it from your list. The other person gets to keep it and we'll discuss it when we get to their ranking. Okay.

[00:42:43] And, um, then the person whose movie was forfeited will bump up a movie from their reserve ranking. So any films they've said so far will go up one spot and you add one from your backups or honorable mentions list instead. Yeah. This was an interesting exercise for me because I had never sort of ranked my top five movies.

[00:43:09] I found that there was one at the very top that was really easy to choose. Mm-hmm. And then the other, like the four afterwards were really hard. It was really hard to like rank the four afterwards. Um, and so this will be an interesting exercise to figure out how our lists evolve here.

[00:43:35] Yes. Yeah. I mean, I'll give some caveats before I get into mine, but, um, I'll just say our spoiler policy by the way is these are of course, mostly older movies, but we will, I think we'll at least give a warning before we spoil something big. Like I thought about saying something about the howling and I said, let's not, um, and, and then one more little rule is if we happen to have the same movie as a tie in the same list, there will be a Rochambeau round to determine who gets to keep it or give it up.

[00:44:05] Winner's call. Oh, okay. It's unlikely to happen, but just in case that's what will happen. So, okay. Let's dive into it. Starting with Anthony, what is number five on your top five werewolf movies list? Okay. So this is a movie that just came out in 2025. Okay. It's two words, Wolf Man. Okay. Not on my list. Okay.

[00:44:35] This is by Lee Wannell. And, uh, it's kind of your classic monster movie. Uh, and I wanted to put at least one sort of one of every of the, the three different kinds of movies that I put on the, on my list.

[00:44:53] And I watched this with my daughter and we had a great time. It's sufficiently scary. Uh, it's kind of, we kind of laughed at a number of times. Like, uh, it's some of the unintentional humor of the film. Um, the premise is that there's a guy who returns to his childhood home in Oregon.

[00:45:17] And, uh, his, you know, he, he, he, unfortunately something bad happens to him. So, so I don't want to say more because it's just a very recent movie. And, um, uh, you know, maybe people haven't seen it yet, but I thought it would be nice to include a more recent film. Um, and one that's sort of like, this is pretty much classic horror, uh, in terms of just like, you know, your classic monster movie.

[00:45:46] Yeah. So it's, it's a third remake of the Wolfman movie. Um, the first one being the 1941 Lon Chaney one, which is in my honorable mentions, uh, just because it's so iconic. Uh, that's yeah. The first Lon Chaney one that's part of the universal horror monster. So this is, you know, when Frankenstein meets the Wolfman, he meets this Wolfman. Um, and then that one got a more direct, but kind of more Gothic, uh, remake.

[00:46:16] In 2010 with Antonio Banderas as the Wolfman one word. Yes. That has Anthony Hopkins and Emily Blunt. Mm-hmm. I, I actually quite liked that one. Yeah. I think Steve and I might've covered that over at properly. Howard. We had a lot of fun watching that. Right. I bet that does ring a bell. That might even be the episode that clued me into the fact that you like werewolf movies. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, and then, so this was this Lee 101 is who is,

[00:46:46] also known for, let's see, like, I was just watching the insidious series and he's also a writer and director on there and, and an actor actually in there too. Um, but yeah, he's, he's a rising name in horror. Also did invisible man. But okay. So that's your number five. That's my number five. Any more thoughts on that one?

[00:47:07] Yeah. I mean, I just think that it, that this is a kind of a, this is an example of the werewolf movie still kind of being the little brother of the other horror movies. Hmm. Cause I feel like, and I think, I, I really hope that, that, uh, Edgar's film kind of breaks loose of this, but I feel like if this was, it's a decent werewolf movie.

[00:47:35] And if it was a different kind of monster, I think it would have gotten a much more or a different kind of horror film that would have gotten much, a much better reception. But I just think that this is a, a pretty good movie and it's, it's, it's, um, it's a lot of fun and it probably deserves a wider, uh, viewing.

[00:47:59] Okay. Yeah. Um, all right. So my number five, I think is the one I'm most likely to lose, but I thought I would put it on my list just in case you didn't. 1985 teen wolf. I do have that higher on my list. I thought there was a good chance. Okay. So we will save and, uh, talk about that when we get to it in your rankings.

[00:48:22] Um, and so I'm going to substitute in and, oh, this is tough, but all right. I, Hmm. All right. This means I'm doubling up because I wanted to do, you know, have to represent the versatility of options in my selections, but this means I'm going to double up on a type of film. Um, let's see. Uh, I am kind of changing my mind between.

[00:48:52] My backups on the spot. This is all happening in real time. All happening in real time. I knew I was going to lose teen wolf and I should have thought harder about this, but I keep changing my mind about it. Um, okay. I'm going to go classic. I think I'm going to go with the undying monster from 1942, which is a lesser, much lesser known one. Um, yeah, I have not seen this. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:18] It's, it's based on, um, a 1922 book, which I have read and it's quite decent. And I'll say it like in a lot of early werewolf stories, it's confusing whether they're werewolf or a vampire in the book version. Um, and they're very clear about it in the movie version. Although I'll say that it's more the werewolf side of the movie. The reason why I didn't immediately put it on my top five list is that the werewolf side of the movie is actually kind of the weakest side of it.

[00:49:46] Um, it's a mix of a cult elements and film noir. Okay. Um, and then the werewolf action, it's prevalent throughout, you know, the, it starts with the, with a, uh, wolf attack and you know, that's, this is the mystery. This definitely falls into your mystery box, uh, about this. It's yeah. Also a curse. It's an ancient curse on this family sort of situation and, and what, what is the truth of it and everything.

[00:50:12] And then at the end there's the werewolf action at the end is actually kind of quite lame. Um, but I, it's, it's a short movie. It's only let's see, because you know, 1942, they all used to be short. It's only an hour and three minutes long. So I'm pretty sure you can find it on YouTube. If you want to watch it, the undying monster from 1942, it's not universal. I mean, it's not from the universal studio, which is probably one reason why it's more overlooked.

[00:50:41] It's from 20th century Fox, which at the time considered themselves more highbrow. And so they rarely did monster movies, but they're like, well, this one's a literary adaptation. So, um, I think that explains also some of it's more experimentation and form, but I like that it also preserves those, those, uh, yeah. Occult, um, aspects that you see in a lot of the early tales, things like that. And then I love film noir.

[00:51:10] I mean, I can't wait to watch this. I might throw it on tonight. Um, yeah, I'm glad that you, I'm glad you put it on the list because otherwise I wouldn't have thought to, to, uh, look at it. Yeah. I was, otherwise I was, um, I was at risk of not having any, I really love like the thirties and forties is one of my favorite eras of films and it's also one of the most classic werewolf eras. So, um, yeah, have to represent with that. Hmm. Hmm. All right. My turn. Yes.

[00:51:40] What is your number four? Number four. This is werewolf by night. Oh, uh, it's higher on my list. So, all right. So that means Wolfman 2025 is bumped up to four for you. What's your new number five? My new. All right. So, all right. So my new, uh, edition is werewolves within. Okay. Okay. Not all right. So this is, this is also kind of more comedy and mystery box than it is monster movie.

[00:52:10] Um, this is sort of, uh, if you're familiar with Sam Richardson, he, um, he's a sketch comic that you might've seen on, I think you should leave or the Detroiters. Um, he's often, often, uh, opposite Tim Robinson. Mm. Uh, so he stars and then Milana Vaintrub, I think, or Vaintrub. I think I'm pronouncing that correct.

[00:52:40] Who you might, she's a very prominent commercial actress. Um, but she's fantastic in this movie. And this is, uh, directed by Josh Rubin. And I think I just found out last night, this is based on a video game. Oh. Which I was not familiar with. I didn't realize I've seen it, but I didn't realize that. Hmm. So anyway, it's sort of like, this is sort of small town with a secret kind of story. Mm-hmm.

[00:53:09] Um, this, the Sam Richardson character is new to the town. He's like the, the park ranger and he's sort of getting to know all the intricacies of this quirky small town. And, um, there's a big snowstorm. So everyone's kind of trapped within. And, uh, it's, it's fun and it's funny. And it's, I think it's a well-written comedy.

[00:53:35] And, uh, it, it does, it, it's dated to a certain, well, let's see here. When is this? Is this 2020? Uh, yeah. 2021. It says on my list. Okay. 2021. So this is kind of, I think that the, the one critique I would have is that it's almost, um, trying to also be a me too movie or a time's up movie. And it's actually name checked in the movie. Okay.

[00:54:04] And I don't think it quite pulls it off. I think it, it, it probably is like of a time and maybe Josh Rubin isn't the right voice to kind of tell this kind of story. So I felt like that that particular theme was sort of dealt with in a pretty superficial way. Um, other than that, it's, it's just a fun time. Yeah. I have to confess. Yes.

[00:54:33] So that came out within a year after this other one, the wolf of snow hollow. Yes. And I watched them both around the time they came out. And now in my mind, I cannot separate the two movies. They are so similar in so many ways. These two, you know, snow storms and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Release close to each other and everything. So one of them I liked better than the other. And I can't remember which is which. Yeah. I think it might've been werewolves. Well, this one. I look at the cast. Werewolves within.

[00:55:01] It doesn't, it really doesn't. It's not trying to be a werewolf movie very much. It's more of like a comedy mystery film that happens to have a werewolf in it. Okay. So yeah, that's one. I know that a lot of people really love that one. So I'm glad that it's getting represented here. Did you have any more thoughts about that?

[00:55:26] No, I think, I mean, this would be like a fun, almost like if you and your significant other or like group of people enjoy, you know, monster films that really don't make, don't release. They're not really like a gory or something like that. This would be a good one to put on with a group of people. Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah. It's, it's friendly to people who are not so into monster movies. That's right. Yeah.

[00:55:56] Okay. Um, my number four, and it was very much this in my interest of like trying to not double up on the same type of movies. Um, I was really close between this and another animated film. Uh, so I ended up going with from 2012 Wolf Children, which is a Japanese anime film from,

[00:56:23] um, Mamoru Hosoda, whom people might know from, uh, let's see. He also did just release like Scarlet is his new take on Hamlet this year. Um, there's a Bell's Beauty and the Beast. My favorite of his after Wolf Children would be the girl who left through time from 2006. But anyway, he does kind of usually rather trippy and technologically driven films, but

[00:56:51] this one is in a way his most grounded. Okay. And it's about a, a woman who meets a man, um, studying and they fall in love and they have children. And she, he tells her pretty early, you know, that he's actually a werewolf and he thought he was going to be alone forever. And she's like, that's okay. I accept that about you. But then, uh, right after they have their kids, he is killed.

[00:57:17] And now she's this human woman with two werewolf kids trying to raise them and trying to, and they're not like. Just lunging at people's throats kind of werewolves, but they, um, especially when they're kids, like they just like they'll just transform while they're playing because why wouldn't they? Cause they can, you know, these werewolves can transform on will at will in these movies. And so it ends up like she takes them to this small town in the countryside and it ends

[00:57:42] up just being about like motherhood and about letting your children choose their own paths. And, um, it's yeah, it becomes this really, I would say it's sort of the, um, oh, suddenly I'm forgetting the name of the Ghibli movie. The sad one, uh, grave of fireflies. It's, it's like a grave of fireflies of werewolf movies. Okay. Again, uh, uh, an example of one that I need to watch. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:10] So that is a wolf children 2012. I, if that sounds interesting to you, if you want some more like, it's a more meditative take, it's definitely, it's not a comedy. It's not an action movie, although it has a little bit of each, it's more of a, uh, drama tracing the life of a woman and her two werewolf kids as they grow up. I like it. Okay. So I've come up with four and five, I think.

[00:58:40] Is that right? Uh, yes. Yes. So number three is next for you. Okay. So I've got teen wolf as number three for me. Okay. Okay. Okay. So this is Rod Daniels sort of blockbuster starring Michael J Fox. And I think that I've appreciated it more as an adult because it is one of my, my, my friend Steve's favorite movies.

[00:59:10] He has a tattoo. And he does have a, he does have a teen wolf tattoo. Um, I love werewolf movies, but I always kind of look down my nose at this one until he had me rewatch it and podcast about it. And I think it's smarter than it was, it was smarter in 1985 than a lot of comedies.

[00:59:35] And it was probably over a lot, a lot of the interesting things about the movie are kind of went over my head and yet it's really silly. It's, it's a really, you know, there's, there's van surfing in this movie. Mm hmm. And, you know, it's sort of, it's almost like a teenage high school, uh, you know, losing your virginity comedy in, in a lot of ways.

[01:00:01] And yet it's really important for the history of the werewolf mythology, because I think this is one of the first films where the werewolf power is not a curse. For almost every other werewolf movie, being a werewolf is a curse. And it's something that you can kind of overcome in this movie.

[01:00:29] It's almost like he's just a superhero. Whenever he is in werewolf form, he's more popular. He's better at dancing. He's better at, uh, you know, getting, you know, getting girls to like him. He's better at basketball. Like all of these things is like, now he has a superpower and then he has to like, kind of, you know, he kind of has to wrestle with, okay, who am I?

[01:00:59] Am I the wolf? Am I, am I the human? Um, what can I do to sort of have the kind of wolfish confidence as a human and not be the, not necessarily be the wolf at the same time. So anyway, it's, it's a silly, it's a really silly movie. And yet it's kind of fun in to see the werewolf mythology evolve into something that's not necessarily the old tropes. Right.

[01:01:28] And, you know, he doesn't get killed at the end. You know, he's, he just has to come, kind of come to terms with the fact that he's a werewolf. And, uh, Michael J. Fox is, is sort of at the peak of his powers and the movie is genuine, genuinely funny at, at, at moments. And he, you know, he has an older, you know, uh, you know, werewolf in the picture.

[01:01:58] His father is a werewolf who's passed it on to him genetically. And so you kind of have that fatherly wolf, you know, in the story. Um, anyway, it's a, it's a great movie. It's, it's a lot of fun. Yeah. I was going to put it on my list, as I said, um, I just, on the one hand, just because it's the most iconic werewolf movie, perhaps overall, like even more than the wolf man. I'd say the best box office success of all the wolf movies.

[01:02:27] And yet people look down upon it. Even like Michael J. Fox, when he was younger, was quoted as apparently he resented it at the time. Um, this was the same year released the same year that he, um, the back to the future was released. Yeah, that's right. And maybe the film only went forward because of him, because he signed on, you know, he was at the height of his fame at the time. And he definitely, he, he does make the movie, although I'll say styles, the best friend makes the movie.

[01:02:54] Um, even if it's not Dylan O'Brien, which yes, I've seen most of the TV show and Dylan O'Brien is became one of my favorite actors to this day. Should have gotten nominated last year for an Oscar for twin list. Just putting that out there anyway. But styles remains an iconic character in this as well with the van surfing, as you said. All of his style shenanigans. Um, but I think that, I think that there's more to this film than people give it credit

[01:03:21] for, because yes, it is a silly, very eighties comedy. And some of like the homophobic jokes don't age well. And some of the, you know, stuff, the way female characters are spoken to and treated, not necessarily, but although like I watch a lot of older films and it's really not that bad to be honest. Um, but I think people underestimate, for example, the camera work and sound mixing work

[01:03:48] is really excellent in this, like way better than it needs to be for this kind of film. Um, and I just think it's, it's nice. It's nice to have a wholesome take on the werewolf tale, but it is also has some depth to it more than people give it credit for. It does. And I think I was sort of, um, I was one of the people who kind of looked down my snout at this movie for too long.

[01:04:16] And, uh, I'm glad that I was sort of turned around on this. All right. So my number three, and this is probably my hottest take on the list because most people do not consider this to be a good movie, but I enjoy the hell out of it. 2005's cursed by Wes Craven. Oh, okay. And, um, so this one, yeah, directed by Wes Craven. It was famously a shit show to get made.

[01:04:42] Uh, it was, I think the, the basically too much studio interference. They were having trouble with the script and making them refilm stuff and, you know, just censoring it a bit. And so you have to wonder what could have been if that those shenanigans had not gone down, but, um, it's, it stars Christina Ricci and, um, Jesse Eisenberg as brother and sister who

[01:05:06] are at the center of what they realize is a werewolf situation. They get into, it's a very LA movie. They get into an accident on Mulholland drive and that's where they first meet a werewolf. And the cast is insane. I'll say Joshua Jackson, Jackson and Judy Greer play big roles. Milo Vintamilia, um, plays a big role. It's yeah. Portia de Rossi.

[01:05:30] Uh, it's really as a surprisingly great cast, but mostly, you know, this is just one that's a lot of fun. It's just remembers. I, for me, a lot of the werewolf movie side of things. Yes. There's the Gothic side and I appreciate that. Um, but a lot of the best werewolf movies are just a good time. And this has, uh, lots of twists and turns.

[01:05:56] You might say too many, but for me, it has a high rewatch ability. So I'm so glad you mentioned this. I, I couldn't get through this movie. Okay. Okay. That's fair. And I think it was, I think I probably need to give it another shot. Hmm. So, um, I, I, you know, you see the cast and you think, well, this is going to be amazing. And then maybe my expectations were a little bit too high for this movie.

[01:06:27] Hmm. Uh, so I'm going to give it another shot. I'm going to give this another try. No, I mean, that's fair. Cause I also like Wolfman, the Wolfman version that you chose. Um, I like the first two so much that I struggled with the third one and it's so much comes down to what are your expectations going on as you were just saying with team wolf too. Yeah. Okay. Are we ready for my number two? What is your number two? This is going to surprise a number of people. Okay.

[01:06:55] This is a movie that's near and dear to my heart. It may be the first quote unquote werewolf movie I ever saw. Okay. It's lady Hawk. Okay. And I think it's, it, it doesn't have the usual werewolf tropes. Yeah. And, uh, this is a movie that was directed by Richard Donner. Mm hmm. It's got Rutger Howard, Michelle Pfeiffer, Matthew Broderick. Yeah.

[01:07:24] And it's set in a medieval period, which is. I didn't even think about it, but yeah, I'm, I'm just adding that to my werewolf list. That's a good call. It's, uh, it's, it's not, it's kind of, it kind of feels a little bit more like the werewolf mythology before the filmic adaptations took over. Mm hmm. Um, and this one, the, the, the, the werewolf basically becomes a werewolf only at night. Mm hmm.

[01:07:51] And his lover, um, is cursed to only ever only be a hawk, uh, by day. So they're never human at the same time. Right. And it's, it's not a great movie. It's just, it's, I mean, it doesn't. I watched it last year. I enjoyed it. It doesn't hold up very well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And yet I like to rewatch this movie because it sort of takes me back to a particular time in my life.

[01:08:20] I think the mythology is, is really fascinating and, uh, it may be one of the first period pieces I ever watched. And so it kind of has that kind of, um, it kind of feels a little bit like the Disney version of Robin Hood at times. Mm hmm. Uh, with, you know, where all of the characters are talking animals, um, and Robin Hood's a fox and whatnot.

[01:08:48] Uh, it's, it's a little bit, um, cartoonish in that way. And yet if you can kind of look past that, it's a really cool mythology with a really, it's sort of a deep seated star cross lovers kind of problem. And, uh, anyway, it's, it's an interesting film. It's Matthew Broderick as a child, basically. Mm hmm.

[01:09:15] And, uh, you know, it's, it's, it was never going to win any awards. Some of the acting is pretty bad. Uh, but I love this movie so much. So Lady Hawks is my number two. Okay. No, that's a great pick. I didn't even think about that one. Yeah. Um, okay. My number two, uh, I already said it somewhere on my list is Werewolf by Night from 2022. Yes.

[01:09:39] And this, I mean, this one, I'll say like, I really struggled between this and my number one as to which would be number one, because I do, I love this so much. It's probably the one I've rewatched the most. It helps that it's only 55 minutes long. Um, but so this, this was directed by Michael G Aquino, who's mostly known as, uh, one of the premier composers working in cinema and television today. Uh, and now his son is following in his footsteps in that regard too.

[01:10:09] Uh, but he's grew up a monster movie fan. And I'll say that I highly recommend also watching his brother directed a making of documentary called director by night, which is on my list for one of the best making of documentaries I've ever seen. And it goes into like their household with their very lovely parents talking about their childhood, growing up, making movies together as kids.

[01:10:36] And, um, and I'll say we did also on the lore hounds feed, do a deep dive into, uh, this episode because I insisted one Halloween a couple of years ago. Um, so I'll link that in the show notes as well, but it's, it's so it is, I haven't said the elephant in the room. It's a Marvel movie technically. And it's a love letter. So it's a love letter, not only to the classic monster movies I love.

[01:11:04] And this is why I almost didn't put on any movies from the thirties or forties. Cause this does kind of cover that ground, even though it's from 2022, but it's very much made in that style as a tribute to these movies. Um, but it's also a love letter to my favorite type of comics. So I read especially the witchy and the horror comics. Um, I, I love the werewolf by night comics in particular.

[01:11:30] And it also happens to include one of my all time favorite Marvel characters, man thing, who is the Marvel version of a swamp thing. Although technically man thing came slightly first, but anyway, they kind of fed off of each other in that way. But, um, it's just, yeah, it's, I love the style. Uh, the, the guy, oh, Garcia Bernal does a great job as, as the titular werewolf. Um, but it's also, it is an ensemble piece.

[01:11:59] As I mentioned, uh, man thing is there who doesn't speak, but it's a great presence. We have Laurel, Laura Donnelly, uh, does a great as, as, um, yeah, she's a, it's, it's, I really wanted them to expand upon this. And so I'll say, I said, it's a Marvel thing, but if you aren't into Marvel, don't worry about it. You don't need to be, it's not unfortunately connected with anything else in the MCU.

[01:12:24] Um, there was some talk of maybe doing a man thing bonus and, you know, a new bonus Halloween spinoff, but I guess it didn't get enough love. So you can find it on Disney plus and give it love yourself. There's the, the original release was in black and white. They did do a technicolor style re-release as well a year later. So you can watch both versions of that. And, um, yeah, the, I mean, there's no homework. It's super short and it's just a lot of fun.

[01:12:54] The, the way they play with like German expressionism with like his transformations and like showing the horror of the transformation through reactions and shadows and things like that. And, uh, uh, that there's a great hallway fight scene. Got to love a good hallway fight scene, but why? So you were considering putting this on your list as well. No, no, no. I was just going to ask what, why you, what you like about it. Why you were considering having. Yeah. I was going to put it on my list too. I think it's, this is a great movie.

[01:13:22] I think it was almost, um, not helped by the fact that it was Marvel at a particular time when people were kind of fatigued with Marvel. Mm-hmm. And it was almost like we were getting five Marvel movies a year and four of them weren't that great. And so I think a lot of people just kind of wrote this one off. So you didn't have the people who are already kind of, um, fatigued with Marvel.

[01:13:51] And then you also didn't necessarily have the completionists who like, you know, like my daughter who was like, look, I am going to watch every episode of agents of shield because. Mm-hmm. I want to see this as part of the story that I'm already committed to. So because it was kind of a one-off and it wasn't connected to the universe in any other, you know, discernible way.

[01:14:19] And because it was, because of the year it came out, I don't think it got nearly enough love. It's a great movie. It's, it's so fun. And when it first came out, I really liked it. I watched the black and white just two days ago. I rewatched it in the color. I think I like the color version more.

[01:14:43] Um, I don't necessarily have sort of that relationship with the classic horror werewolf movies that you do. And it was just, it was, it was less to kind of, there was less of an obstacle for me to enjoy it with in the, in the color version. Um, like you said, like the, the transformation scene done in shadow and just seeing the reaction. Um, there's a few sort of twists and turns to the movie.

[01:15:13] I was not familiar with the 1972 comic, so I, I didn't really see a lot of those twists coming. But it's doing its own thing. So. Yeah, for sure. And it's not kind of, um, it doesn't really have a lot of the tropey stuff that, that a lot of werewolf movies have. Uh, so anyway, I, I really recommend this movie. I love it. And I'm glad you included it. Yeah.

[01:15:41] Like I said, nearly my number one, but another one beat it out. But first, and we're going to take one more quick break here. When we get back, we will share our number one picks and some other honorable mentions. Mm-hmm. What is your drum roll? What is your number one ranked werewolf movie? I, I'm, I'm wondering if we both have the same one.

[01:16:11] I would, I would be surprised. But this is by far. Okay. I think not just my favorite werewolf movie of all time. I think it's the best werewolf movie. Okay. It is an American werewolf in London. No. Okay. I don't, I, I was wondering if it would be that I do. That's not my number one. Okay. Oh, I'm so glad that I get it. But okay. I'm glad that it ended up on here because a lot of people would be upset if it didn't. I'm so happy that I got to do this.

[01:16:38] This is, this is just one of my favorite movies. It has all the different parts of a classic werewolf movie. It's a mystery box. You know, it's, it's a small town with a secret. It is just a, you know, monster movie. And it plays with the psychology of the protagonist maybe better than a lot of the other ones that are, that kind of try to do it.

[01:17:07] And you really understand the point of view of the director. The director is John Landis. Um, you really have a sort of a very Jewish sensibility to the perspective of the director. Um, so it does play with a few of these old Jewish werewolf tellings of the story. It has kind of classic Rick Baker effects.

[01:17:37] There are certain things that I love to see in a werewolf movie. I love to see the elongation of the, the palm as it sort of term, turn sort of into that wolf like paw. I love to see the, um, the, the, the, the face of the human kind of becomes snoutish as it extends. Uh, this man, this, this movie doesn't cheap out on any of that stuff.

[01:18:07] Um, really, really leans into the, the effects toward the end of the movie. It's also genuinely funny. Like this movie is really, really funny in, in a number of points. Um, it's got Frank Oz in it and there's, there's like some Muppet DNA in this movie. It's very adult. Like one of the most sort of horrific parts of the movie happens in a Piccadilly circus porno theater.

[01:18:37] And it, I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen it, but I kind of feel like the most horrific part of the movie is just the psychological damage to the main character. When he realizes that he's the monster and there's no way to stop himself from being the monster. And he may have to take, he may have to like do something very drastic. Mm-hmm.

[01:19:04] And you've got like, um, you've got like, uh, loved ones who have been murdered, who kind of have to live in this state of purgatory until, you know, the wolf problem is solved. Um, anyway, I love this movie so much. I could watch it over and over and over again. So that's my number one. So am I going to make you hate me if I say one of my hottest takes and all of, well, you hate this movie.

[01:19:34] Don't say no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying I hate this movie, but I prefer, and people are going to scream at me for just even saying this. I slightly prefer an American werewolf in Paris from the nineties. Sorry. Oh my gosh. I tried to watch this movie a couple nights ago thinking, well, I've never seen, I should probably see it. Mm-hmm. It's just, it feels so different in so many ways. It is very different. Yeah. And you know what it is? I think with American werewolf in London, that is one that I watched.

[01:20:02] I only watched it for the first time like a few years ago. So I was rather late to the game and that. And so, you know, I didn't watch it. It wasn't a seminal movie for me growing up as, you know, the release date would suggest it could be. Um, and so I, I, I wrote in my review of it. Uh, it was, I went in with the wrong expectations. It was like expecting a sip of water and getting a mouthful of vodka instead. Interesting. Okay. I, I, I totally get that.

[01:20:31] Um, you know, I, I watched this, I did not like horror until really COVID. Mm-hmm. I, I didn't, I, I didn't even really try to watch horror, but this was one of the movies that I would watch as a kid. But it was the highly edited sanitized version that you could show on TV. Oh yeah. Cause this is a rated R for sure. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I mean, this is almost, uh, I mean, yeah, for a lot of reasons it's rated R.

[01:21:00] But, um, so this has a little bit of nostalgia for me in addition to just being a great movie. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I might just also, um, like the cast of a werewolf in Paris, Julie Delpy and Tom Everett Scott. So I don't know. Yeah. Or just that vibes, but, um, I'm glad that this made it on the list. Cause it's definitely one of the most iconic of, if there's one after teen wolf and wolf man, that's like the most iconic, then it's this.

[01:21:29] I will say one critical thing about this film and that is the lead actor is not a great actor. And in fact, I, you know, I think that there are a number of other actors in this film that are almost outpacing him. Hmm. Hmm.

[01:21:50] But it's like, it's almost like, you know, when you're watching star Wars and Mark Hamill is a little bit, not great in terms of just the acting chops that that's what this film is for me. Like I, I do forgive the acting in this film. You know, it's like we were saying, like werewolf movies are, some of them are very silly and that this movie can be very silly at times. Yeah. Um, anyway, but I, I forgive it. I forgive this movie.

[01:22:21] No, I, I know that a lot of people, this is their number one favorite movie. So it's a good pick, good pick. Okay. So I guess, shall, shall I share my number one pick? I can't wait. It is. Oh, well, actually I've wondered before I went into mine. Um, I was just look, I'm looking at, you know, I'm putting together this list of our top five, which I will share on social media after this episode is released.

[01:22:47] And I'm noticing your top three are all in the eighties. Um, which honestly I'm surprised there's not more of my list, for example, that's in the eighties. Why do you think that is? Um, I mean, I'm sure that a lot of it has to do with, um, just my personal bias. No, but I think eighties were like a really, um, a high era for werewolf movies.

[01:23:16] I think that that might be the case. I mean, I think that if, if I was sort of a film buff, I would look at this list and say, oh my gosh, how come you didn't include more of the classic, the classic Wolfman stories? You're right. But there's just something about sort of those eighties, nineties films that hit me at the right time of my life. Um, so I think that there's part of that too.

[01:23:45] Now, if my friend Steve were here, he would say, well, it's because the eighties are the, it's the best pop culture decade ever. And so I'm not surprised that all of these movies come from the eighties. So I don't necessarily agree with him. I, I, I usually tend towards seventies films and American werewolf in London does feel a little bit more seventies than it does eighties. But, um, yeah. 81 is, I feel like feels more seventies in general. Yes, that's right. That's right.

[01:24:14] I think that there's also something, tell me if you think that this is true. There's also something about B movies, almost getting big budget effects in the eighties. Yeah. Maybe that's something to do with it.

[01:24:29] And it used to be like werewolf movies would like, you know, they, they used to have to use these little tricks, you know, camera cuts because they didn't really have a lot of money to show the transformation of the wool or to show, you know, the big kills or whatever. Um, and so it was almost a little bit subpar in that way. And I feel like in the eighties horror became big business.

[01:24:58] And so it started, people started throwing a lot of money at these things. Yeah. And it really hasn't been to the last decade. I think that people have considered like horror movies Oscar worthy. So we're still kind of evolving, evolving in that way. I mean, there were always some, you know, like silence of the lambs or something, but yeah. And monster movies. Yeah. Are different. Yeah. That was definitely outlier. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:27] Sometimes it happens or, or, uh, like Guillermo del Toro, uh, managed to convince the Academy. He was worth looking at for some reason. And I'm glad for it. I think that this is why we're seeing more, but yeah, but 1981, the year American werewolf in London came out is considered a particularly iconic year, especially because of that. And we already mentioned the howling. And then also that year, uh, there was, um, full moon high, which is sort of, I don't like it.

[01:25:54] It's, it's like a one, one to be Mel Brooks spoof of werewolf movies. Oh, interesting. It's very good. There's also like wolf in a night of the werewolf, but then also teen wolf was 1985 as was the Stephen King werewolf movie, silver bullet. Um, lady Hawk, which is on your list was then as well. Um, Oh yeah. The howling sequel.

[01:26:21] So indeed these are considered two of the most iconic years. And my final pick falls in between them in 1984. It is the company of wolves. Oh yeah. Have you seen this one? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So this is directed by Neil Jordan, who's probably most famous for interview of the vampire and the crying game.

[01:26:44] And, um, this is, it's really kind of a collection of tales narrated, especially by Angela Lansbury, which is always a plus. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. It's a mostly feminist take, which, you know, surprise, surprise coming from me, but it's, and, and that is what I, what I like about it.

[01:27:06] You know, there, there is, um, a quote from the movie, but what pleasure would there be in that listening to a lot of wolves? Don't we have to do that all the time, which is basically like dealing with the men folk, like the pleasure would come from knowing the power she had. So that's sort of like, it's, it's about, um, there's two types of wolves in these sort of nested stories and it's the aggressor and the self-liberator.

[01:27:36] Um, and, but also with self-liberation comes, uh, exile comes, you know, um, alienation and it's just, it's rife with these layers of symbolism, but you don't need to get into all that to appreciate it. Because the aesthetics are immaculate. The vibes are superb. It has some of the coolest werewolf transmate transformations ever committed to film.

[01:28:05] Um, just from the set pieces in which they take place to the makeup of the, like, there's one particularly gnarly one that's like, they do full close up on the, you can actually see part of it on, on one of the most iconic posters of this movie. If you just look up the company of wolves, 1984. Yeah. It's just, it's a tale. It's a coming of age tale.

[01:28:27] So it touches on all these themes that we talked about earlier of a young woman who's basically, she's talking to her grandmother who's trying to teach her about navigating the confusing, terrifying blend of the pleasures and the dangers of society. And of the men in it. And it's just for me, when I was thinking, like, I just kept thinking over and over when I was making this list, like, what do I think makes a good werewolf movie? And this has all of it.

[01:28:57] I only saw this once. And it was when I was just like, first sort of experimenting with more horror in my diet and probably like 2020 or whatever. And I definitely need to see it again. And now knowing that you love it so much, I can't wait to revisit it. Yeah. Yeah. It also reminds me of, do you know the Norwegian singer Aurora? No. Um, she, yeah.

[01:29:24] So she's just, she's a Norwegian singer that I like, but she has a song called Running With The Wolves. It's been running in my head ever since I watched. I didn't, I wanted to rewatch this movie. I didn't have time. Um, but I rewatch, I watched a recap of it just to like remind myself of, of everything. And ever since I've had this song running through my head, here's a little clip of the Aurora song.

[01:30:10] So it's, yeah, I don't know. It just captures that feeling of like, of joyous liberation tinged with danger. Mm. I love it. I love it. It's fantastic. Uh, now I, I, no, I definitely want to rewatch this. Um, it's interesting that where it's situated because I feel like, do you, do you feel like

[01:30:39] it is underappreciated because of the overt feminism or do you feel like you feel like it was a little bit ahead of its time for, uh, this particular genre to do that kind of thing? Yeah, I think a little from column a little from column B. Uh, yeah, I think it, it, I'm surprised at how overlooked it is, especially because it

[01:31:06] was a director who, I suppose it was before his actual prime of directing. So it's one of his earlier movies and maybe that also has something like people weren't really paying attention to him until the crying game and interview the vampire. Um, uh, yeah. And I do think, for example, one of the most celebrated ones that people might be surprised isn't on my list. I'll give it an honorable mention is the ginger snaps trilogy. Are you familiar? I was waiting for you to include it. Yeah.

[01:31:36] It's yeah, it's three films. The first was released. It's Canadian. First was released in 2000. Um, then there were two sequels released back to back in 2004 and, um, they, it touches on a lot of the same themes. And I'll say the third one is actually, it's an origin story, barely kind of, but set in, in the past in like the 19th century, I suppose in, in, uh, French Canada with fur trappers and stuff.

[01:32:03] Um, and so I, I feel like this film captures what everyone loves about that film, but I don't know. Yeah. It was released 20 years earlier almost. So I wonder if it had been released 20 years later, if it would have, um, tapped into the zeitgeist more. That's so interesting. Interesting. So I've got a number of honorable mentions. Yes, please. Yeah.

[01:32:31] What were your, so I asked for two backups. You had one. Did you have a second backup lined up? So my second backup was the Wolf of Snow Hollow. Okay. Which you, which you already mentioned. Um, I, I think that it's, it's, it's, it's just a fun werewolf movie, you know? Uh, like you said, it's, it's, it's in a lot of ways, it's very much like werewolves

[01:32:54] within, um, this one is a little bit more classic, uh, murder mystery kind of thing. Um, I, I want to call out a movie that is not a werewolf movie, but it's titled werewolf. Okay. This is Canadian. This is a Canadian film by Ashley McKenzie. And it's about. What year is it? This is 2016. Okay.

[01:33:24] It's almost, um, there's nothing really supernatural about this film. So it, it's called werewolf, but it has a lot of the themes that we've already discussed, but it plays with the sort of the, the conflicts that come along with drug addiction. Hmm. Um, so I thought this was a really well-made movie.

[01:33:48] Um, I was expecting, you know, it to be a werewolf movie when I first watched it because of the title. But once I realized, oh no, this is not that kind of movie, I would just started to appreciate the, some of the similar themes that I look for in werewolf movies in this film. Um, I'll let you say a couple before I say any others. Um, why? Yeah, we, I did manage to drop a bunch of them.

[01:34:17] So the howling was one of my possible backups. Um, what a weird movie that is. It, it's an interesting mythology and yet there's this weird kind of, um, like all the scenes in the city at the beginning were really off-putting. It almost was trying to be a little bit taxi driver in the beginning.

[01:34:44] And then there was this weird, like, um, like sexual assaults pornography that was shown over and over in this movie. Apparently that's so much worse in the books, in the book that it's based on. Oh my gosh. It was too much. It was way too much for me. And, and, and, you know, it's like as soon as they got to the country. I know where that comes from in the lore, but yeah. Yeah. I think you're right about that, but you have to do it.

[01:35:15] I don't know. It kind of felt like it was more reveling in the, the, the, the depiction than commenting on it. But anyway, that was okay. See, I thought that I called it a surprisingly mature because it is, um, you know, there is this trope that goes back to that, uh, a werewolf, the werewolf of Paris, 1933 guy Endor novel, um, this, this trope of werewolves being rapists basically. And so I thought, okay, it was pulling from that.

[01:35:43] So I've read it as that immediately in the opening scenes. And then I thought, I thought it was a surprisingly mature take on it. And also the way like there's sexism in it, but the way it's sexism that's realistic rather than being like, we all know bitches, right? It's all, it's like, you hear this guy saying, we all know bitches. This is what I deal with, you know, that kind of thing. Um, which I do appreciate. That's interesting. All right.

[01:36:07] Well, I, as soon as the movie gets to the country and you're dealing with like the, the, the pack or whatever, um, that, that to me feels like, oh, this is, this is what the movie should have been. This is, this is, you didn't need that early part in the city. Okay. Um, and then of course, when it goes back to the city at the end, I thought, oh, come on. Um, so I kind of feel like if you just took the part of the movie that happens in the country,

[01:36:36] I'm in, I'm in, I'm into that movie, but it almost has bookends of eye rolling. Okay. All right. See, I like the bookends, but, but I, so that that was a Joe Dante film and he's best known for films like gremlins and the burbs. And I think a lot of people, it was more serious than we usually get from him in a lot of ways. Not that it's completely, you know, not, not that it's devoid of tongue in cheekness, but, um, maybe, yeah, it was more serious than his usual fare.

[01:37:05] And I, I assume that that was why a lot of people don't necessarily like it as much as I do. Um, I'll say it is the start of a series of six, much more lowly rated films that I, I do plan to rewatch or watch for the first time in the case of the latter films over the next couple of months for funsies. It's just, I think an iconic slice of werewolf lore and hip fandom, you know, werewolf cinema history. It does.

[01:37:34] It kind of has a prominent place in the, in the werewolf cannon, right? That one. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then my other, um, backup was, uh, yeah, there was the other, I included one animated film and I was like reluctant to do two for some reason. And so people might've also expected to hear the animated film wolf walkers from 2020 from cartoon saloon. Are you familiar with that one? I've seen it many times and it almost. Made the, my list too.

[01:38:04] Okay. All right. Yeah. We're the entry. It's got so much heart. It's beautiful animation. It's yeah. The animation to me is worth the watch. Like I, I feel like, um, it, it's a little bit of a slow burn to get into the story for me. Um, but you get to hear the, the voice of Sean Bean.

[01:38:28] So that's, that's one thing to like about it, but all everything in the forest and all of the animation in the forest and sort of the, the, the stark contrast between like the British Lord, who's almost like a woodcut versus like the wolf walkers who are sort of almost made of fire. Like they really play up the, the varieties of animation. Yeah.

[01:38:56] You could fit within one, one film and, uh, beautiful, beautiful imagery. Yeah. No, I'm a big fan of the animation studio in general. Um, they have my favorite of the star Wars visions shorts also. And just, yeah. Uh, I'm always when cartoon saloon puts out something, I am pressing play. I got a couple others that I want to mention, but I don't want to, if you've got another

[01:39:25] one, I want to hear it. Um, no, I mean, I'll just quickly throw out a brand new one that I did. Don't even know if it's widely available yet. I got to see it as part of a film festival, Japanese film. Um, when you open the door from 2026 and, um, this is one that I think I reviewed it for, uh, for a website that I write for. And I think I only gave it three stars when I reviewed it, but it's been growing on me ever since.

[01:39:53] And this is another one that's, you know, when I was talking about, this is the one that made me think a lot of thoughts about other werewolf movies. I think that's one reason why I like it so much. It's got this surreal aspect to it, but it's basically, it's about this Japanese woman who, um, has, you know, she has a boyfriend, she has a job, she has the life she's supposed to have. But then she claims she's bitten by a wolf and everyone's like, there are no wolves in Japan. So that's not true. And they're like, she's something's going wrong with her.

[01:40:21] And, um, and then she finds this group of older women who like take her in and they're kind of like witchy, but teacher of their ways. And, um, and it's about her gradually over time, giving into this wolfishness and how that affects the people around her and in done with a lot of very surreal cinematography. So when you open the door from 2026. Yeah. I saw that on your list and I, I've, I've not seen it.

[01:40:48] Um, it's, uh, it's one of these films that because of the cover art and because of the title, you probably might not know that is trying to be a werewolf movie. Maybe that's the point. I don't know. Um, so I got it, just a couple, we mentioned the brotherhood of the wolf. This is a French period piece based on sort of real life rumors.

[01:41:16] Um, this is directed by Chris Gons. And then I wanted to shout out this show. I know this is, we're just doing films, but this is called wolf. Like me. Are you familiar with wolf? Like me? Yes. Yeah. Mm. And it's, it's Josh Gad and Isla Fisher. Mm. And it's, I think it was, I think I watched it on Hulu or Peacock. Maybe it was Peacock.

[01:41:44] Um, and I think it's two seasons. I really enjoyed the first season quite a bit. The second season is not bad either. And, uh, it is, what should I, how should I put this? It's almost as if the werewolf mythology got shoehorned into a rom-com. Yeah. And I loved it. It was great. It was, it was perfect.

[01:42:12] There was a second season of it, right? I only saw the first. There was a second season. That's right. Uh, this is worth watching. You know, it's, it's, you kind of have to enter it thinking like with a rom-com state of mind rather than a werewolf state of mind. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. Yeah. No, the only reason I haven't watched the second season is because it disappeared from the streamer. It was on locally here, but I definitely want to watch.

[01:42:39] I want to rewatch the first season now and then watch the second season. Yeah. I, it was a lot of fun. This one's a lot of fun. Um, piggybacking on your, the brotherhood of the wolf. I'll say there's another one. So the brotherhood of the wolf, I don't want to spoil anything. They'll just say that it's. Yeah. It's more grounded and realistic.

[01:42:58] Um, a slightly more fantastical taste that also deals with the beast is, uh, the cursed from 2021, which was also originally released in the title eight for silver. Do you know this one? So this is, it's in the Victorian English countryside. And I will warn you up front. This is a brutal, grim werewolf tale. Very Gothic, very Gothic, but definitely expect gore.

[01:43:26] Expect, uh, Romani, which is flying into your face. Um, some horrific transformations and imagery, but also a really unique take on the werewolf floor. And I don't want to spoil that too much because it's something that you discover as the film goes on the uniqueness of this or, but I'll just say, you know, like the poster features these silver teeth that are, and it does.

[01:43:51] It infuses magic more, which of course, going back to like the original Wolfman stories and literature before that, the whole idea of, of, um, werewolves coming from Eastern Europe has been imbued in the lore.

[01:44:06] Uh, but this, yeah, this it's, it's also the bad guys in it aren't, isn't necessarily the people converting the wolves because you also see the reason why this Romani woman curses this land and this family is because, um, all of her people, you, it opens with just like front. You see it shot from a distance, but a massacre of their entire village because they didn't want them to claim land in England.

[01:44:33] Um, so I saw this on your list and I, I had not seen it. So this sounds very, I mean, but this sounds like get ready for an, a legit horror movie. Yeah. I mean, like it's more, I, there are scary moments. I guess I don't get scared easily. That's probably, um, but it's not, there's, there's few, if any jump scares, you know, not that sort of thing, but my gosh, some of the most beautiful cinematography.

[01:45:01] And production design in the English countryside with like the mists and the lights and yeah, gorgeous, gorgeously grotesque film, the cursed. Well, more for me to look forward to. And of course we're both looking forward to. To werewolf. December 25th. Do you know why it's being released Christmas day? Um, yeah, I, it seems Nosferatu was also released Christmas day.

[01:45:31] I guess it's like, it's like a counter programming sort of idea. Maybe that's it. I don't. Although when Nosferatu came out, he was like, there is a Christmas tree in there. I don't know if that's the case here. Probably not. It's pre Christmas tree. That's it's so interesting to me that he likes to do this. I mean, it is, it is a high, I mean, there, it is a high traffic time for films, but you would not expect it, a film like this to be released Christmas day.

[01:46:02] No. No. So maybe counter programming is exactly the right take on that. Yeah. It does make it difficult to cover immediately, but, uh, after the holidays, I'm looking forward to talking to you about it because it does. And that's another thing I feel like I wrote in my review of, um, the cursed that I just mentioned. I wrote in the review for anyone who thought the trailer for Robert Eggers movie looked too, uh, optimistic. Right.

[01:46:31] But it does. Yeah. It, the vibes and everything like that's what I love about Robert Eggers movies is how he dives into the historicity and uses that to just create these unearthly atmospheres that are actually quite grounded, but they feel really transporting to me for that reason. Yeah. He's really one of the most interesting voices in horror right now. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

[01:47:01] And the fact that he's taking on this particular topic is, is of keen interest. Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, so I look forward to talking about that with you. In the meantime, uh, you, I saw David released a message. I sent in some feedback for a new properly Howard season that you're cooking up. Do you want to talk about? We're going to record our, our first episode today.

[01:47:26] So Steve and I are, um, the theme for properly Howard this season is, um, I've lost the, the, the word. This is, I'm, this is a horrible moment for me. Double features. That's it. You can keep all that in. I think people need to know the horrors of aging. Yeah. I did it earlier too. Uh, yeah. Double features.

[01:47:53] So, uh, so Steve and I have chosen particular double features that we'd like to cover. And then we asked, um, people to write in and, and suggest double features. We're going to include one fan suggested double feature. And then that probably will start, uh, sometime soon, sometime in the next month, uh, I would guess. Okay. Yeah. You guys always have fun games for how you determine what movies to cover. So I'm looking forward to it.

[01:48:20] It is kind of like it's for, it's just to entertain ourselves basically. Um, but yeah, thank you for letting me shout that out. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to mention? No, no, but just check in with, uh, properly Howard. Uh, it's, it's the cover art with Howard, the duck on it. Steve and I will usually cover some really great movies and some really, really bad movies. And usually it's the bad movies that we have the most fun with. Right. Yeah.

[01:48:48] I will link that in the show notes of course. Uh, so you can check that out directly, but I mean, you started actually under the title cocoons of horror, right? So, uh, people who like this might find things I like in there. The conceit of the podcast originally was that I had not watched much horror at all. And Steve was a horror buff. Mm. And, uh, sort of, we were interested in some of the stuff that had influenced stranger things. Mm. Mm. Mm.

[01:49:17] Uh, and then of course we realized that no one could spell cocoons and no one could say horror. Mm. So we needed a new name. Um, anyway. So yeah, we, we, we do have some, you know, I think we cover maybe four or five different werewolf movies in that feed. If, if people are interested in listening to those. All right. I will link those in the show notes and thank you so much, Anthony, for starting your day with me.

[01:49:44] And now I see you it's the sun is up and no werewolf has come yet. Although they're not always bound by the night. Unless I am the werewolf. Thank you again, Anthony. And that new properly Howard season is, has already begun.

[01:50:12] I, we've recorded this conversation that you just heard a few weeks ago. So, so you will find now already the first episode of the new season in their feed, uh, where they draft the films and explain how that whole process works. So enjoy that. And I would love to hear what are your favorite werewolf movies? What do you think of our picks? Which would your picks be? And why please send your feedback to woolshiftdustpodcast at gmail.com.

[01:50:39] And we'll include it in our werewolf movie discussion when that film comes out. Um, I do want to add to the notes, uh, that during this episode, you heard Anthony clue me into this Wagner, the werewolf, uh, Penny Dreadful release from George W.M. Reynolds, uh, that was released in the 19th century, specifically 1847. Um, and so I have in the meantime actually read that book and yeah, I can't believe I didn't know about it.

[01:51:08] It, it is, it's a pretty rip roaring read. It starts out a repelling read, should I say? Um, it starts out in a way that made me surprised that it didn't get the respect that I felt like the first half of it deserved. But then I'll say midway through about halfway through it jumps the shark and it just keeps on water skiing, uh, for another like 300 pages or something.

[01:51:36] So I will link that in the show notes for anyone who's curious and share the other novels that we mentioned as well. Um, and links to those for text and audio, uh, for those that are in the public domain. And you'll also find in the show notes, uh, total list of all of the movies that we discussed here, uh, in the order that we discuss them, um, with links to our coverage on our various podcasts where relevant.

[01:52:05] So please let your werewolf explorations begin. And if you want to jump into the discord to discuss any of this with us, then you will find that linked in the show notes too. Uh, there's a wool shift dust channel under affiliates. Uh, there's also a spooktober channel, which depending on when you're listening to this might be under current or might be back under, uh, special topics, but the discussion is regardless, always open.

[01:52:32] Now for wool shift dust, as I mentioned at the beginning, Luke and I have already recorded our season wrap. It's a nice big whopping doozy that, uh, that I will be editing and putting out next week. And then there will still be the preview of the season four trailer, uh, breakdown of that. And Abby and I are doing a wrap up too of the season where we also talk about the book

[01:52:55] spoiler stuff from the season four trailer and what we expect from that final season based on book stuff. In the meantime, between now and the next silo season, uh, we'll be getting back into dune stuff. It's another haunted Dickens Christmas in January. We're starting full neuromancer coverage with comparisons to the books and deep dives into the episodes and everything you expect from silo. We'll be doing that for neuromancer as well.

[01:53:23] I have already started rereading all the books and short stories, and I'm enjoying being back in that world. Uh, and do also stay tuned for more overall news soon. There's going to be some reorganization coming soon that will be to the benefit of people who would like to hear more regular coverage in this podcast. Now, if you enjoyed this episode, please do, as I always ask, uh, if you share it with anyone

[01:53:49] else you think might be interested in, in ranking werewolf movies, if you would be kind enough to leave a nice rating and review, wherever you're listening, that is also an enormous help to us. And of course the next level is there's a book club on supercast and Patreon, same content, both feeds, um, supercast and Patreon members will get the bonus werewolf episode, which will cover the history of medieval werewolf stories. You've got some teases here.

[01:54:16] We're going to dive into them there, including some audio adaptations of a few. They're, they're short, so I can do a couple this time. Uh, but these are expected to be the most direct inspirations for Robert Eggers new werewolf movie. So thank you to all of the current book club members. I will be shouting out thank yous to new members who have joined since the last silo episode in our silo season wrap up, which again, will be coming your way soon.

[01:54:43] Uh, meanwhile on the lore hounds feed, I am involved in the weekly vision quest coverage, which is the final in the WandaVision, Agatha all along now vision quest trilogy, just a meaningful story arc for me in the comics and on the screen. So glad to be wrapping that up over there. If you would like to join Jean and I, um, there's also lots of spooktober stuff over there,

[01:55:10] like a deep dive into the exorcist film, which is a personal favorite of mine from childhood and watch out, uh, in early November for we'll be doing Jean and I will be doing our clay face coverage for the new movie that just came out. And David is in the middle of three parts Godzilla coverage with Nate, a Japanese historian. Um, they are gearing up of course, for Godzilla minus zero by first looking back at the original

[01:55:39] movie and, uh, the political climate in which it sprung and, uh, talking about, yeah, the key movies leading up to the Godzilla minus zero releasing next week. Wow. Uh, of course elsewhere, Cosmere Corner is covering the Brendan Sanderson books, getting into the later part of the first Mistborn book now. Um, Rings and Rituals is just wrapping up their season two Rings of Power rewatch episodes,

[01:56:09] gearing up for season three of Rings of Power, which will be covered in full on the lore hounds, uh, Dungeons and Do-rags. They are currently covering Vision Quest, which they are not enjoying, sadly. Uh, they're wrong. But anyway, they do like, uh, Carrie and they're talking about that as well. The new Mike Flanagan show. I'm two episodes into it and I also, I mean, I love everything Mike Flanagan does. Uh, but this is no exception. Properly Howard, as I said, just started the new season and Nevermind the Music is where music

[01:56:38] meets psychology. Look up a song that you like and listen to them break it down in new ways that you've never thought of before. For now, happy Halloween. Stay safe out there and beware. The next full moon is November 24th.