Silo: S1 "secrets" w/ Hugh Howey

[00:00:26] Hi, welcome to a special bonus episode of Wool-Shift-Dust, a Silo TV podcast.

[00:00:31] Luke is resting up for an academic conference tomorrow, but I snuck in a special guest.

[00:00:37] We have with us today Hugh Howey, author of Wool, Shift and Dust, aka the name of this

[00:00:42] podcast, and also one of the executive producers of the Silo series on Apple TV Plus that

[00:00:47] just wrapped up its first season.

[00:00:50] Now, yeah, Hugh, I know you always say to expect failure because most projects fail,

[00:00:54] but now we're looking at, like, definitely the most talked about show on Apple, maybe

[00:00:58] even the most talked about show overall right now.

[00:01:01] Have you let yourself celebrate this win?

[00:01:03] I'm trying to.

[00:01:04] It's wild.

[00:01:06] I was just talking about this with a friend how you try to keep your expectations in

[00:01:11] check.

[00:01:11] This is definitely not something you expect.

[00:01:14] Like very few shows get this kind of hype and word of mouth and buzz.

[00:01:21] And I was worried we would release something no one would be able to find it instead.

[00:01:26] It seems like it's everywhere.

[00:01:28] Yeah.

[00:01:29] Yeah, I'm flabbergasted and thrilled.

[00:01:32] I've heard a lot of people are signing up for Apple TV just to watch this show, so

[00:01:37] that's something.

[00:01:39] Yeah, that's, I mean, Apple is super happy with me right now because that's what they

[00:01:43] dream of.

[00:01:44] You don't really make money on ticket sales the way you do with features, with film

[00:01:50] the way these shows help the parent company make money is if people sign up to

[00:01:56] watch them.

[00:01:56] Yeah, indeed.

[00:01:58] Yeah, I mean, and I think Apple's content overall is worth it.

[00:02:01] Like I'm an Android user when it comes to technology, but their content has really

[00:02:05] been knocking it out of the park.

[00:02:06] So I'm glad that Silo helps spotlight all of it.

[00:02:10] Yeah, I'm also an Android user.

[00:02:15] But they are becoming, you know, it's funny at the same time.

[00:02:19] That they rose to the top for prestige TV.

[00:02:24] Max dropped the HBO moniker and it just seemed like a passing of the baton.

[00:02:29] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:02:31] I mean, I know for a lot of especially genre fans, Netflix has also really kind

[00:02:37] of dropped the ball on that.

[00:02:39] And it's nice to see Apple and to us to some extent Amazon also kind

[00:02:45] of pick up the ball with these because these genre shows are expensive.

[00:02:49] These are not cheap productions.

[00:02:51] Yeah, they're expensive and they require fans of the genres.

[00:02:55] And that's what you find in tech companies.

[00:02:57] I mean, it's very fitting.

[00:02:59] Apple is trying to build our future.

[00:03:03] And the fact that, you know, there's a lot of people who work there

[00:03:06] who are interested in sci-fi is not a right.

[00:03:08] I'm not a coincidence.

[00:03:09] It's not surprising, right?

[00:03:10] Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:11] Well, so I was wondering what is the most exciting feedback

[00:03:14] you've gotten about this series?

[00:03:15] Now we all saw the Stephen King tweets, of course.

[00:03:18] Yeah, that's in the top 10 for sure.

[00:03:22] I mean, it's cool to get like the celebrity endorsements, but my mom

[00:03:27] has been turning her living room into a cinema every Thursday night.

[00:03:32] She actually does two viewing.

[00:03:33] She does a Friday for all of her friends and they all come over

[00:03:37] to her house and pile into her living room.

[00:03:40] And just watching how proud she is of all this and her getting

[00:03:44] all of her friends into the show.

[00:03:46] Yeah, that's kind of feel good.

[00:03:48] Yeah.

[00:03:48] And the opening night in Charleston with my family and friends

[00:03:52] and just having a bunch of people from, you know, basically my college years.

[00:03:58] Right.

[00:03:59] Be there to support the show together was a major highlight.

[00:04:04] Yeah, the people who have seen, you know, your lower moments

[00:04:07] and now see you rise up to success.

[00:04:09] That's got to be gratifying.

[00:04:11] Well, thank you for being kind enough to let me pick your brain a bit here.

[00:04:15] The general spoiler policy for this podcast is that we talk about any

[00:04:20] episodes that have aired, so we've got the whole season and the related part of the book.

[00:04:24] So the spoilers are allowed for the first half of wool.

[00:04:28] And then at the end we'll do a special separate segment

[00:04:31] that will only go to the book club members.

[00:04:34] And that will be full spoilers.

[00:04:37] So all book spoilers.

[00:04:39] Fun.

[00:04:39] Cool.

[00:04:40] So yeah, you're really generous with your time.

[00:04:43] Like you told me just before we started recording that, you know, you've done

[00:04:47] you've been recording podcasts all day.

[00:04:50] It's it seems like you make it a policy to make yourself available to people like me.

[00:04:54] So first of all, thank you so much for that.

[00:04:56] But I'm wondering what made you decide to prioritize that to always make time for that?

[00:05:01] It's kind of always been my my policy.

[00:05:05] I I enjoy this.

[00:05:07] I love talking about this world and these characters.

[00:05:09] So it's not a chore for me.

[00:05:11] But I also what I was just starting out as a writer, I made my writing journey

[00:05:18] very public.

[00:05:18] I blogged about it and share everything on Facebook.

[00:05:21] And it was with friends and family, people who knew me were the only ones who were

[00:05:25] following me.

[00:05:26] But just making myself available and interacting with readers and

[00:05:33] saying yes to pretty much every promotional opportunity, created a

[00:05:37] wonderful feedback loop.

[00:05:38] And I got as much out of it, I think is as anybody else because it kept me fired up.

[00:05:43] Let let me remember why I do this and stay engaged with the stories.

[00:05:49] Right. So yeah, just drives my passion.

[00:05:53] And I feel like this is how storytelling used to be.

[00:05:56] It was a very communal endeavor.

[00:05:58] It wasn't like people in a writing cabin in the woods, you know,

[00:06:02] walking out every five years with the novel.

[00:06:04] It was, you know, it was a constant back and forth and learning from each other.

[00:06:10] So that's the way I view this industry.

[00:06:12] Right. Yeah, that's how we kept our histories.

[00:06:14] Yeah. Yeah, I have to say as an unpublished outside of games, science

[00:06:19] fiction author myself, I really look up to people like you and Andy Weir,

[00:06:23] especially like not only for writing absolutely gripping books, of course,

[00:06:26] but for forging your own path in self publishing.

[00:06:29] So I was wondering when you made the decision to go that route,

[00:06:32] was there anyone you were looking up to yourself?

[00:06:36] Yeah, there were, you know, I was lucky to be chatting with

[00:06:41] a handful of people who had gone that route.

[00:06:45] And we were all kind of thinking the same thing,

[00:06:48] but none of us had seen this level of success that we thought was possible.

[00:06:52] So it's all hypothetical.

[00:06:54] And we're all just wondering if we were crazy or not.

[00:06:58] Daniel Suarez was one that I remember early on.

[00:07:01] He wrote an amazing sci-fi book called Demon

[00:07:05] and he couldn't find a publisher to take a chance on his work

[00:07:10] and just started selling, you know, out of the trunk of his car

[00:07:14] and turn it to a big success, a publisher of which later picked it up.

[00:07:18] And I love that book.

[00:07:19] And I realized, you know, the route that you publish

[00:07:22] doesn't say anything about the quality of the work.

[00:07:25] Right. Yeah.

[00:07:27] It's just that there was so much stigma to overcome at the time.

[00:07:31] So the decision was never easy.

[00:07:33] Looking back, it's easy to kind of rewrite that whole time period

[00:07:37] and make it sound like it was an obvious decision.

[00:07:40] Yeah. But I remember agonizing over it, you know,

[00:07:45] for a long time and getting terrible advice from from a lot of writers

[00:07:48] who said that this would.

[00:07:50] What were they?

[00:07:51] Well, the idea back then was if you self-publish your careers over

[00:07:54] to almost at a conspiratorial level, like people thought

[00:07:58] if you self-publish, then publishers, if they read any of your stuff,

[00:08:02] they'll go like do research on you and find out you'd ever self-published.

[00:08:05] And and they would say, no, don't you know, you're blacklisted?

[00:08:09] Like there was that level of fear about self-publishing.

[00:08:11] And and it seemed absurd to me, but I didn't know anything about publishing.

[00:08:17] And these were all established folks telling me

[00:08:20] that I couldn't do it this way.

[00:08:22] And so it was really weird to to forge my own path

[00:08:25] and run counter to everyone else's advice.

[00:08:29] What what would be your advice for someone who's trying to self-publish

[00:08:32] today in this current climate?

[00:08:35] Um, put out the work that you're proud of and start working on the next thing.

[00:08:39] I think the trap people fall into is one of spending time promoting

[00:08:45] like one book instead of thinking about like it might be your eighth or your

[00:08:49] twelfth book. That's the one that you're most proud of that that readers

[00:08:54] help that connects. Yeah, that really catches fire.

[00:08:59] And the later the later the book, the better the more of a backlist

[00:09:03] you'll have for people.

[00:09:04] So, you know, just don't get hung up on that first book.

[00:09:08] You have to make it as good as you can, get it out there

[00:09:11] and then start writing the next thing. Right. OK.

[00:09:14] And who were your go to authors, books or genres when you have time to read?

[00:09:21] I read a lot of nonfiction.

[00:09:23] So I don't, you know, and a lot of nonfiction.

[00:09:26] It's like kind of one book and then you never, you know,

[00:09:30] it might be five or ten years between books if they're prolific.

[00:09:34] So I don't follow a lot of writers.

[00:09:37] I just kind of pick topics that I'm interested in.

[00:09:42] But for fiction, Amor Tolles is like one of my new favorite

[00:09:46] writers and I just wait for his next book to come out.

[00:09:50] What kind of nonfiction books do you like?

[00:09:54] Um, history, philosophy, technology,

[00:09:59] science, a lot of nature stuff, pretty much whatever

[00:10:03] I'm interested in learning more about. Right.

[00:10:07] It's auto-didact reading list.

[00:10:09] Yeah. And you know, that's where a lot of my writing comes from

[00:10:12] is I do a deep dive on a topic and then it informs something

[00:10:16] that I might be working on.

[00:10:18] Yeah. Yeah. No, it shows in the details.

[00:10:21] Yeah. And so in terms of the show, you were on set recently,

[00:10:24] it looks like based on that YouTube video you just published

[00:10:27] with Rebecca Ferguson.

[00:10:28] Yeah, that was actually from season one.

[00:10:30] Oh, okay. That was a older video.

[00:10:31] But I haven't felt brave enough to share.

[00:10:33] I might get in trouble for sharing that video, but

[00:10:36] you know, we weren't really supposed to share anything

[00:10:39] from on set.

[00:10:40] But now that this is the first season is out,

[00:10:42] I think it's OK to share a couple of things.

[00:10:45] No spoilers, definitely. Yeah.

[00:10:46] Yeah.

[00:10:47] But it sounds like filming is in full swing right now.

[00:10:50] Yeah, big time.

[00:10:52] People are relieved that you seem to think the next season

[00:10:56] will be released next year.

[00:10:58] Do you think the writer's strike will play any role in that?

[00:11:02] It shouldn't play any role in season two.

[00:11:05] I'm eager for this writer strike to end so everyone can get back to work.

[00:11:09] You know, a lot of friends who are

[00:11:10] right have projects on hold right now, which is unfortunate.

[00:11:13] And I'm a fan of a lot of shows and I want all the way to keep making them.

[00:11:20] But the thing that could mess up is we need to keep working on season three.

[00:11:28] And none of that can really go forward.

[00:11:30] Though it's impossible not for things to percolate while you're,

[00:11:34] you know, like everyone involved in the show is thinking

[00:11:37] about the third season, whether they want to be or not.

[00:11:40] Yeah.

[00:11:41] And yeah, just for listeners in general, I just want to let people know that Luke

[00:11:45] and I talked a bit about the background development of this project, Silo.

[00:11:49] You know, the as you call it, the development heaven many years

[00:11:52] and your philosophy toward these types of projects in general.

[00:11:57] In episode two of this podcast, our second trailer breakdown.

[00:12:00] So I encourage anyone who hasn't to go back and listen to that

[00:12:03] as a companion to this interview if they want to know more about that.

[00:12:07] And I apologize that the sound quality then was not a step down from what you're

[00:12:11] hearing now. And also, you did a full AMA on the Silo series subreddit this weekend.

[00:12:16] So I won't be repeating anything discussed there.

[00:12:19] We talked about some of the things you said in our episode 10 breakdown.

[00:12:22] And I'll put a link in the show notes for anyone who wants to go

[00:12:24] browse through the full AMA.

[00:12:27] But I have a question from actually a friend of mine

[00:12:32] who I just got him started reading your books.

[00:12:36] So shout out to Bob, AKA dead eye, Jedi Bob on Twitter.

[00:12:40] And he says, being a newcomer to the series, I have to say,

[00:12:44] I'm fascinated with how this world is presented to readers.

[00:12:47] No one's holding our hands, so to speak.

[00:12:49] The reader isn't given page after page of the conventional history lessons

[00:12:52] in sci fi explaining how or why this world is the way it is.

[00:12:56] We learn about these characters by watching them go throughout their day to day

[00:12:59] life in the Silo. More revelations are unearthed over time.

[00:13:03] We're in the thick of things as the characters are making such discoveries.

[00:13:07] And I find myself unable to put the series down as a result.

[00:13:10] And he asks, when you started wool, did you know how it would end?

[00:13:14] Or did you unearth the ending as you delve deeper into this unique world

[00:13:17] and its characters? And yeah, I know that wool started as a standalone

[00:13:20] short story about Halston and Allison.

[00:13:22] But I guess at what point did your full story take shape in your head?

[00:13:27] So, yeah, when I wrote the short story, I knew how I wanted that to end.

[00:13:31] Though I will say when I was writing it, I kept going back and forth.

[00:13:35] Part of me wanted to give the story a happy ending.

[00:13:38] OK. And I just couldn't do it.

[00:13:41] But I kept thinking like, I don't want to do this to these people.

[00:13:46] But you did so many times.

[00:13:47] Yeah. And I think the read, I know a lot of readers

[00:13:51] when they're going through that first part, they go back and forth

[00:13:55] of what they think is happening.

[00:13:56] And I think they're picking up on my hesitation.

[00:14:00] And. But that ended up

[00:14:05] wrapping up the first part of the way I envisioned

[00:14:08] when I got all this demand for part

[00:14:12] for more of this story, but everyone was dead.

[00:14:15] So I had to think about, OK, who am I going to?

[00:14:17] Who's this story going to be about?

[00:14:18] And I didn't want it to be a Johnson and Marge story,

[00:14:22] which is why they're the next to get.

[00:14:25] Yeah, they're the next to go.

[00:14:26] Yeah, I feel like their story was kind of behind them.

[00:14:31] OK. We were getting them towards the end.

[00:14:34] And the only way their story could really move forward is for them

[00:14:38] to retire and be together.

[00:14:40] Right. And again, I was hesitated to do like a happy ending for them.

[00:14:46] So I thought, OK, I'm going to use these two characters as a bridge

[00:14:51] to introduce the star of the of the bigger novel.

[00:14:55] And I wanted that to be a mechanic and I dreamt up Juliet.

[00:14:59] And I thought, OK, what's the end?

[00:15:02] What's she going to go through in this story?

[00:15:05] And the main thing.

[00:15:08] And this is as far as I'll take the discussion of the plot

[00:15:10] since we're in our season one spoilers only.

[00:15:14] Discussion one so halfway through.

[00:15:17] I knew I wanted her to like leave the silo

[00:15:23] and and I had an idea of what I wanted.

[00:15:27] The very ending of the book to look like, which has already happened.

[00:15:33] Yeah.

[00:15:35] One of the best parts of this first season to me is when Juliet

[00:15:40] and her dad reconcile and connect over

[00:15:47] their misunderstanding of what happened in the past.

[00:15:50] And that to me was like a central theme of the overall novel.

[00:15:55] So it's kind of cool that we got that in the first season.

[00:15:58] Yeah, no, I said on the podcast that when I'm reading that part of the book,

[00:16:02] I'm like, Juliet, just go see your dad now, please.

[00:16:05] Yeah. So I was I was pleasantly surprised to see them reconcile earlier in the show.

[00:16:12] What's your favorite change from the books?

[00:16:15] I really like Walker as a woman.

[00:16:18] I think the relationship with Juliet is much stronger that way.

[00:16:22] Yeah, it's more.

[00:16:25] There's more goddess energy in that room than there is like adoptive dad.

[00:16:30] And when you think about what her mom,

[00:16:34] you know, the tinkerer that her mom was

[00:16:37] in the show more than in the book,

[00:16:40] Walker really becomes like an adoptive mom.

[00:16:45] And in Silo, in a way that Walker, the male version of Walker is not in the novels.

[00:16:52] I think that's I think that was a very strong change.

[00:16:57] I like I like Bernard.

[00:17:00] Bernard's complexity in the TV show is really interesting to me.

[00:17:05] Like that last conversation he has with Juliet before she goes out.

[00:17:09] In episode 10 just shows what he wrestles with, you know,

[00:17:13] I never wanted him to be just an outright evil person in the books.

[00:17:20] And I think the show does an even better job than the books of having that nuance.

[00:17:26] OK, and who's your favorite show only character?

[00:17:31] My favorite person is only in the show.

[00:17:34] Man, that's tough because there's a lot of cool characters added.

[00:17:37] But I don't even know his name.

[00:17:39] I got to look at the credits.

[00:17:39] He's he's barely in the show, but the the redheaded.

[00:17:44] Oh, Danny, Danny.

[00:17:47] Yeah, yeah.

[00:17:47] He is so natural on camera.

[00:17:50] Like what I kind of wish is, you know, this there's this character

[00:17:54] in the book named Scotty that we got rid of right because there was just two

[00:17:58] that we couldn't get to at all.

[00:18:01] And I kind of wish we had made that Danny character Scotty

[00:18:06] just to give homage to him.

[00:18:09] But I loved his performance.

[00:18:12] And I think if there's a way to play up his role in the future, it would be amazing.

[00:18:17] Yeah, no, I'm voting like Danny Lucas, Patrick Kennedy, Hacker Ring,

[00:18:23] you know, take over the silo.

[00:18:24] Yeah, Patrick Kennedy also Patrick Kennedy is amazing.

[00:18:28] And we were we're on set for some season two stuff with him

[00:18:33] and just got to hang out a bit.

[00:18:35] And he is so easy in front of the camera.

[00:18:39] He's just like has he has what actors have to have.

[00:18:44] And I think as we figure that out during season one,

[00:18:47] we were able to like expand his role on the fly because he's so good.

[00:18:53] Yeah, no, I mean, we have talked about in the podcast when we first

[00:18:57] saw him and that he was credited on IMDB is like five episodes or something.

[00:19:02] And we were like, what are they going to do with this character?

[00:19:05] And then by the end of the season, we're like, we love Patrick Kennedy.

[00:19:07] He must not die.

[00:19:08] Yeah, you know, he's he's a flamethrower without knowing what the flamethrowers are.

[00:19:13] And I love that about him.

[00:19:16] What's what's amazing is that he has he gets in trouble

[00:19:21] in a way that's not life threatening.

[00:19:23] You know, he's like

[00:19:25] but he's doing some of the same stuff that other people who are getting after doing

[00:19:29] it's just amazing how he nothing sticks to him.

[00:19:32] It's fascinating.

[00:19:33] Yeah, and it's it's funny the relationship with Juliette,

[00:19:36] how she's just always showing up at his door and yeah, she saves him that one time.

[00:19:40] But she's always asking for bigger and bigger favors.

[00:19:43] I just hope he gets that watch like a.

[00:19:45] Yeah, he deserves it.

[00:19:47] I'm going to send him a watch at some point like, you know,

[00:19:49] the next season wrap or something.

[00:19:51] Yeah, she she got his apartment busted.

[00:19:53] He's arrested.

[00:19:54] Oh, but yeah, speaking of the flamethrowers,

[00:19:56] who came up with the idea of the flamethrowers?

[00:19:58] Because that's a show concept.

[00:20:00] Yeah, it was a writers room thing is one of the things I don't remember

[00:20:03] who came up with it.

[00:20:05] Yeah, I have no idea.

[00:20:07] It was but it was very early on it was in the mini room where we were breaking out

[00:20:11] the seasons because that's where it came up with Gloria.

[00:20:15] And and her expanded role in all this.

[00:20:18] Yeah, because Gloria in the book, she was Marnes' neighbor.

[00:20:22] And that was kind of what we heard from her.

[00:20:26] Yeah, exactly.

[00:20:27] I think her her well, her performance was incredible.

[00:20:32] Yeah, but showing what how why they kept her around.

[00:20:38] And if you know she hadn't helped Sims have a kid, she would be dead.

[00:20:44] Yeah, that's it.

[00:20:45] Yeah, that's what Luke kept saying.

[00:20:46] It was so powerful the way she gave him everything

[00:20:50] so that she could stay drugged up like it was such an inversion of the

[00:20:54] you know, usually the getting getting drugged up is the threat.

[00:20:58] And in this case, it was like, we'll keep it from you.

[00:21:00] Right. Yeah, exactly.

[00:21:02] Yeah, that just shows how desperate she was.

[00:21:04] And that that was kind of the most heartbreaking

[00:21:07] that she was giving up her principles.

[00:21:10] Yeah, Luke and I talk a lot about the most emotional scenes.

[00:21:13] There's a lot of them.

[00:21:14] But what seemed from the show impacted you the most?

[00:21:17] The most.

[00:21:18] I mean, I cried several times watching the watching this

[00:21:23] the episodes with my wife and

[00:21:28] probably when Juliet's father says that she never believed me about his wife.

[00:21:34] And Julia says, I know I do.

[00:21:38] That just that tears me up every time.

[00:21:40] Like you just think about what he went through

[00:21:44] and what he lost, you know, a wife and two kids

[00:21:50] and living alone, you know, just helping other people have families.

[00:21:55] That's his like daily job and knowing enough about the bad things that he's doing

[00:22:01] to fill some guilt, even if it doesn't know about all the other stuff.

[00:22:04] Right.

[00:22:05] So him getting her love and respect back

[00:22:10] was just heart wrenching for me.

[00:22:13] Yeah, that was episode that we, Luke and I had split opinions.

[00:22:17] I called that like the most emotional scene and he called the

[00:22:21] Martha trying to leave her workshop, the most emotional scene.

[00:22:24] That's also the time that she doesn't leave is really amazing.

[00:22:30] It's incredible how much she does just with her face in her hand.

[00:22:35] She's phenomenal actor.

[00:22:36] And if you see her in other stuff, she's never the same person either.

[00:22:39] She doesn't play herself.

[00:22:40] Right.

[00:22:40] No, we keep calling her a chameleon.

[00:22:42] Like every single time it's some people don't even know it's the same actress.

[00:22:46] Yeah, she's phenomenal.

[00:22:47] Yeah.

[00:22:48] And OK, so on the we did this ad stuff on the flip side,

[00:22:52] what's the like best funniest line that sticks out in your head?

[00:22:56] The funniest line.

[00:22:59] You know, Marins is the one cracking me up the most.

[00:23:03] I thought he was I thought he was hilarious.

[00:23:07] I'm trying to think of which which one of his jokes are like the best.

[00:23:11] I feel like almost every scene he was in, he was he was saying something that got me going.

[00:23:17] He's Luke's favorite character.

[00:23:19] Oh, is that Luke's favorite?

[00:23:21] Yeah, him and Billings.

[00:23:23] Yeah, Billings too.

[00:23:26] I don't know about funny, but I my favorite like heartwarming scenes

[00:23:31] are just watching him and and John's together.

[00:23:37] Like their romance is so sweet.

[00:23:39] Yeah.

[00:23:39] And I think like maybe my my favorite little moment between them is during

[00:23:44] a cleaning when John's grab reaches down and grabs his hand

[00:23:48] and the way he looks down and glances at her.

[00:23:51] It's like you can tell his heart's racing like like a middle schooler.

[00:23:56] And so much of their past is in that moment

[00:24:00] and so much of what happens to them going forward is forced out of there.

[00:24:04] Yeah, it reminds me of moments when in the books

[00:24:08] when they go and visit Dr. Nichols and he's telling them, you know,

[00:24:12] the whole backstory of with their family and they're just holding hands

[00:24:16] while they listen casually is oh, oh, that's one of the things

[00:24:20] that tore my heart out the most that whole romance.

[00:24:23] Yeah, I wish they could just like live the rest of their lives together.

[00:24:28] Yes.

[00:24:30] So what's one thing that surprised you about the television production

[00:24:34] that you learned through your role as an exact producer on the show?

[00:24:39] I was I was surprised at how much we would shoot and not use

[00:24:46] like entire sets that we built that we shot scenes on that just got cut.

[00:24:51] And realizing this show is better for not including every scene,

[00:24:56] like just knowing what to take out.

[00:25:00] Each episode could have been probably 10 or 15 minutes longer

[00:25:03] and I don't know that I would have made them any better.

[00:25:06] I mean, I would have loved 10 or 15 minutes more in the finale.

[00:25:10] I can say that.

[00:25:12] I guess you probably can't say if any scenes that were that were cut

[00:25:17] from their production. Oh, yeah, I don't know.

[00:25:19] I don't think I'd get in trouble for it.

[00:25:23] There was an investigation.

[00:25:25] It's from the book.

[00:25:26] There was an investigation into someone was stealing crops

[00:25:29] and they find out it's a rabbit.

[00:25:31] The bunny. Yeah.

[00:25:31] Yeah. And we actually built like a hydroponic garden.

[00:25:35] These big racks with real carrots in there and

[00:25:40] some farmers and this amazing scene with Holston and Marnes investigating it.

[00:25:47] And then Holston telling Allison, you know,

[00:25:51] like recounting it while they're showing some of the investigation.

[00:25:55] And yeah, it's like really good stuff,

[00:25:58] but it would have gone in the pilot and just didn't need it.

[00:26:02] Right. But, you know, we could have saved a lot of time

[00:26:05] and money to realize it didn't need it earlier on.

[00:26:08] You know, there's a whole fan theory that I might fuel a little bit

[00:26:12] that, well, people were thinking that the bunny

[00:26:15] that we see Young Juliet release in the one episode.

[00:26:18] It's obviously that bunny would be dead by the time

[00:26:20] that Marnes was doing this investigation.

[00:26:22] So I've decided that that bunny got together with another escaped pet bunny

[00:26:26] and had bunny babies.

[00:26:28] And that's who was in the garden.

[00:26:29] Yes, they get descendant, maybe like grandparent.

[00:26:32] I don't know how long rabbits last six or seven years or something.

[00:26:36] Probably not 15 years. Yeah.

[00:26:38] But yeah, they're definitely related.

[00:26:40] That's canon. All right. It's canon.

[00:26:42] There we go. You heard it here.

[00:26:44] And what was it like filming your cameo in the last episode?

[00:26:47] Was it your first time doing something like that?

[00:26:49] I think it was my first time, especially I did some commercials

[00:26:54] when I was in college, which is also just standing around in the background.

[00:27:00] But to be a part of a production that big was pretty wild.

[00:27:05] And also, I didn't tell any of the other extras.

[00:27:09] They just thought I was like some other idiot like them. OK.

[00:27:13] And and they all knew what they were doing.

[00:27:18] And I had no idea what was going on.

[00:27:20] And I think they were probably wondering

[00:27:22] like why they would put someone so clueless,

[00:27:26] like, you know, in such an important part of the stage.

[00:27:30] It was like just trying to learn on the fly.

[00:27:34] But it was so much fun because the wall screen was in front of us.

[00:27:38] And it was showing Juliette got to clean.

[00:27:40] We're watching it happen.

[00:27:42] So they had filmed that scene with her before and then they were showing it to you.

[00:27:46] Yeah, that that was one of the first things I shot was the cleaning

[00:27:49] because it was one of the few scenes outside.

[00:27:53] And so we're all standing there like watching her clean and reacting to it.

[00:27:57] And it was the ultimate and kind of cosplay,

[00:28:02] like to get to dress up and be part of your world and part of the story.

[00:28:07] It was really surreal.

[00:28:09] So if someone gets the opportunity to do a cameo or a walk on role in a set,

[00:28:15] what's your tip for them?

[00:28:17] Definitely do it.

[00:28:18] Like it's so cool to see how the sausage is made.

[00:28:22] I think the I think the hardest thing to learn is how to pretend like you're talking

[00:28:27] without talking, OK?

[00:28:29] Like silent, you know, pantomining a regular conversation

[00:28:34] is so much more difficult than you would think.

[00:28:36] Especially if you do it over and over, I assume.

[00:28:39] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:40] Am I correct in assuming AMC was involved in both this and the Beacon 23 production?

[00:28:46] Yeah, in different ways.

[00:28:49] AMC, they're the ones who optioned

[00:28:52] will to begin with for TV.

[00:28:55] This is after I got it back for 20th century and Ridley Scott for when they

[00:28:58] were going to make a feature. Right.

[00:29:01] So AMC was developing it and an apple kept asking, like, can we be involved?

[00:29:07] Can we be involved?

[00:29:08] And so by the time Apple got involved, we had, you know, producers

[00:29:12] from both companies working together.

[00:29:18] So AMC had a huge role in how the story, you know, came together

[00:29:22] and they were co-producing the season for much of the filming.

[00:29:29] And so I felt like at the best of both worlds.

[00:29:32] And then with Beacon, someone else was developing it.

[00:29:37] And AMC did what Apple did to them.

[00:29:38] They're like, hey, can we be a part of this? OK.

[00:29:40] And so it's like AMC sold off wool and bought into Beacon 23.

[00:29:47] And yeah, but I love the I love the folks of both companies.

[00:29:52] But I've done several things with AMC and just really like the team there

[00:29:57] and love working with the folks at Apple.

[00:30:01] It's you can see how once you form relationships in the industry,

[00:30:04] you just want to keep making stuff with the same people.

[00:30:08] Like, could you know, work?

[00:30:08] And see why directors work with the same actors and right.

[00:30:12] And all of that is just you develop a comfort level in an affinity.

[00:30:15] Yeah, we've noticed that a lot of the writers on this show have worked

[00:30:19] for previous gram-yost productions. Yeah.

[00:30:22] But you can see that, yeah, you you nurture a talent

[00:30:24] and give them opportunities to shine in new ways.

[00:30:28] Now, yeah, was was there like, do you notice a difference

[00:30:31] between the productions, the Beacon 23 and Silo?

[00:30:37] Yeah, well, I spent a lot more time on the set of Silo than Beacon.

[00:30:43] And I was a lot more involved on Silo.

[00:30:48] The biggest changes, you know, they're very similar,

[00:30:51] but incredible writing teams and and and set production,

[00:30:57] incredible cast on both.

[00:31:00] I'm interested to see what we have with Beacon.

[00:31:02] I've been less involved in like the post production, but it's

[00:31:08] I'm kind of where I am with Beacon.

[00:31:11] I was the same place with Silo, where I just keep an expectation

[00:31:13] is really low until OK, until we get it out there.

[00:31:16] But there's two seasons filmed?

[00:31:18] Yeah, two seasons filmed and yeah, they're both in post now.

[00:31:22] So I hope we get some news soon about when the when the first season will be released.

[00:31:27] Yeah, fingers crossed.

[00:31:28] OK, well, in Silo then, what's one thing

[00:31:32] from the show or the books that people keep misinterpreting

[00:31:35] that you'd like to set straight?

[00:31:37] That's a good question.

[00:31:38] Well, I would say misinterpreting, but I will say that people think

[00:31:42] the mystery of what's outside the Silo is the most interesting thing.

[00:31:46] Of some people think this, right, right, which I don't think

[00:31:52] that's that's super interesting.

[00:31:53] I think what's most interesting to me is what living in that Silo

[00:31:58] does to people and why someone would have built it.

[00:32:02] Like, what's the origins of the place?

[00:32:05] And so I think it's the the history of the Silo to me is more fascinating

[00:32:11] than what's going on, you know, on the planet outside of it.

[00:32:16] And I and those are the mysteries, you know, that the book really gets deep into.

[00:32:21] And but that's just me, like I'm more into like the psychology

[00:32:25] that I am, the disaster story. Right.

[00:32:28] Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, they know spoilers, of course,

[00:32:31] but they kind of go hand in hand in the end.

[00:32:34] Yeah, that's true.

[00:32:36] But you know, I studied psychology in college, and I think that's one

[00:32:39] of the things that I find so fascinating about, especially in shift.

[00:32:44] There's a lot of your put an interesting moral quandaries

[00:32:49] where you question what you would do in certain characters places.

[00:32:54] What's your favorite fan theory that you've seen from show only watchers?

[00:32:58] I love the people who like think way outside the box, like people who will say

[00:33:05] maybe they're on a spaceship.

[00:33:07] You know, maybe this is like a colony, a colony ship, multi-generational.

[00:33:12] And this is to keep people from going insane, let them think they're still on earth.

[00:33:17] So I like when people get way outside the box like that.

[00:33:21] I also love people who try to figure out how this and the world of sand

[00:33:25] are the same rights.

[00:33:27] Yeah, and people want there to be a Howie verse.

[00:33:30] So better start writing it in.

[00:33:32] Yeah, the problem with the problem with that is like, you know, the people

[00:33:35] who just did a deal for sand for TV, you know, if these are on the same world,

[00:33:40] then like who owns a lot?

[00:33:41] Right.

[00:33:41] No, it's a lot easier for these worlds to be separate.

[00:33:43] Yeah, any sand adaptation news?

[00:33:46] We haven't announced the deal yet, but it just got finalized a couple

[00:33:50] weeks ago.

[00:33:50] But as soon as we're trying to get some producers to say,

[00:33:56] some non-writing executive producers attached now, because we can't really

[00:34:02] do anything beyond that till the strike's over.

[00:34:04] But I have the same attitude towards this as everything else.

[00:34:09] I doubt anything will ever get made, but I'm excited to work with people

[00:34:12] and get some script written.

[00:34:13] That'll be fun.

[00:34:14] And book three?

[00:34:16] Yeah, book three.

[00:34:17] I'm doing a couple of short books following up Balloon Hunter.

[00:34:23] Right.

[00:34:23] And then book three is the next big release, which I hope.

[00:34:26] End of this year, early next year.

[00:34:28] We'll have that out.

[00:34:29] Yeah, Balloon Hunter looked great.

[00:34:31] It seems like a success, right?

[00:34:32] It launched well.

[00:34:33] Yeah.

[00:34:34] Yeah.

[00:34:34] And I didn't even really try to launch it, but it's gone kind of crazy

[00:34:38] all on its own.

[00:34:39] And I love it because it's a very difficult book.

[00:34:41] It's like, it's unusual.

[00:34:44] The fact that it's landscape format, first of all, is kind of wild.

[00:34:47] But I know you've seen this, but it's a tricky book to read

[00:34:52] and it's a fun book to interpret.

[00:34:55] Tricky to read because of the postcard format?

[00:34:58] Yeah, because the postcard format and also we don't spell out stuff.

[00:35:02] At the end, you kind of have to sort out what happened.

[00:35:05] I think it's clear, but you might have to read the last few pages

[00:35:09] a few times to see how dark we went with it.

[00:35:13] So that's the hint.

[00:35:14] Think darker.

[00:35:15] That is the hint.

[00:35:16] Think darker.

[00:35:17] But the sequel is going to surprise people.

[00:35:21] So we're excited to get that out.

[00:35:22] Okay.

[00:35:23] Yeah.

[00:35:24] And, okay.

[00:35:25] So about back to the other darkness, Silo, what is the pet policy?

[00:35:29] I was wondering because in the books, I had the idea that they were illegal,

[00:35:34] but in the show clearly people have pets.

[00:35:36] Yeah.

[00:35:37] I think that was just writers putting their own preferences in there.

[00:35:42] There's a lot of dog and cat owners on the writing team.

[00:35:45] And I don't think they liked my idea that pets were food.

[00:35:49] Yeah.

[00:35:50] Well, yeah, and the pets were just not allowed too much,

[00:35:55] too light, making people too happy.

[00:35:59] But if you want to keep people docile?

[00:36:01] Yeah.

[00:36:01] It seems like in the show anything, there are people that had cats and dogs.

[00:36:06] So it's kind of all over the place, but I'm happy with whatever they decide.

[00:36:10] There's plenty of room.

[00:36:11] That wasn't a sticker for you?

[00:36:12] No, I didn't care.

[00:36:14] I prefer pets, but the book is much more dystopian.

[00:36:21] The only place there's really any kind of music or art is just in the marketplace.

[00:36:26] It's not all over like it is in the TV show.

[00:36:29] So they did not want to go as dark as I was.

[00:36:33] Are we ever going to see that flashback with the play?

[00:36:35] Sorry, that's a slight book spoiler, but not really.

[00:36:38] I don't think we have that, but I pushed for that.

[00:36:41] I thought we should have had because I love the young Juliet.

[00:36:44] I thought this flashbacks were great, and I wish we would have had that.

[00:36:48] The closest thing we have of course is in the pilot, Allison is at one of the plays where they're

[00:36:53] giving a little talk about the founders and the uprising,

[00:36:59] but I wish we would have worked in a Romeo and Juliet thing.

[00:37:03] It was nice to see the nickel's parents happy.

[00:37:07] Yeah, exactly.

[00:37:08] There were other scenes that I was really pushing for.

[00:37:11] Like I wanted Lucas to invite Juliet to dinner one night because she worked in the cafeteria,

[00:37:18] but she was never really eating.

[00:37:21] And I was going to push for him pointing that out and saying,

[00:37:24] let me come over for dinner.

[00:37:27] And when she showed up it was like him and his parents.

[00:37:30] It was like family dinner and just the discomfort of Juliet in that setting.

[00:37:34] I thought would have been a lot of fun.

[00:37:38] Yeah, because you said that you're often the one that pushes for changes in this show.

[00:37:43] Yeah, I think add more instead of truncating and taking away.

[00:37:51] Let's flesh the world out even more.

[00:37:54] Okay, last question for the non-spoiler section.

[00:37:58] So we like to highlight from time to time the work of crew members who really made the

[00:38:02] show and for instance, we've talked about Pippa Broadhurst's design work.

[00:38:06] Is there anyone else on the crew or production side whose work you think deserves a special mention?

[00:38:11] Well, Gavin and his whole team, Gavin ran production design.

[00:38:18] What they built is just astounding like the genius.

[00:38:22] The sets and the stairs.

[00:38:24] Yeah, the staircase, the silo.

[00:38:27] There was a room full of 3D printing machines and architectural push-a-board models

[00:38:35] and blueprints running all day just spitting out what the build team needed to create.

[00:38:43] And you forget that like you can't just, people were using these stairs.

[00:38:48] People were running and fighting like these were steel girders and poured concrete.

[00:38:53] And it had to be robust and functional.

[00:38:57] And that means you're actually like kind of building a piece of the silo.

[00:39:02] And that's a huge undertaking.

[00:39:04] I was shocked at what was involved in that and how they pulled it all off.

[00:39:09] But I think he and his whole team just deserve, they deserve an Emmy for sure for building this set.

[00:39:14] I mean, I think a lot of people feel like members of the cast and yeah,

[00:39:19] writing crew and everything deserve Emmys all around in this show.

[00:39:24] Yeah, I wish, you know, I think David and Rashida deserve recognition,

[00:39:29] but you rarely get nominations when you're only in an episode or two.

[00:39:34] But it doesn't take away from just the quality of what they put on the screen.

[00:39:39] It was unbelievable.

[00:39:40] Well, the fact that people are so desperate still that they're still alive

[00:39:44] tells you something about what an impact they made.

[00:39:47] You know, that was 10 episodes ago and people are still like, no, but you're telling me they're really dead.

[00:39:51] Yeah, it is brutal.

[00:39:53] But you can always go back and watch those first episodes again and spend time with them.

[00:39:58] That's true.

[00:39:58] And read that section of the book.

[00:40:00] And that concludes the show only section of my talk with Hugh Howie.

[00:40:04] Though we did continue on for another half an hour talking about book changes

[00:40:08] and what's coming in future seasons.

[00:40:10] If you'd like to continue listening to the rest of that conversation

[00:40:13] and you don't mind book spoilers, you can find it in our new Silo series Patreon Book Club feed.

[00:40:19] Link in the show notes if you're interested in reading the books yourself

[00:40:22] or would like to have all of the important plot points summarized for you with all the

[00:40:27] important twists.

[00:40:28] The Patreon Silo Book Club is where you'll get all of that insider book reader intel.

[00:40:33] Stay tuned to meet Sam and to find out how you can listen to the rest of my interview

[00:40:38] with Hugh Howie and get all of the Silo Book Club details right after this quick commercial break.

[00:40:44] Welcome back for anyone interested in learning more about the Silo Book Club

[00:40:49] and in hearing the rest of my interview with Hugh Howie.

[00:40:52] You can find all of that information and episodes coming up breaking down each of

[00:40:57] the books one at a time and then the entire first season of episodes two at a time.

[00:41:02] Focusing on all of the juicy book spoilers that I had to bite my tongue about all

[00:41:07] throughout the regular wool shift dust season.

[00:41:10] You'll find all of that at patreon.com slash wool shift dust one word and you'll find that link

[00:41:16] also in the show notes.

[00:41:17] And my partner in crime helping me unlock all the secrets of each of the books from

[00:41:22] wool through the silo short stories is Sam from Silo TV fans fame.

[00:41:29] With our gag order completely lifted we finally get to share all of our thoughts

[00:41:33] and theories about the first season including what's going on with the digger,

[00:41:37] that tunnel and what Gloria says they're putting in the water.

[00:41:40] Now bringing their own hot takes to the table I know from previous conversations that Sam and I

[00:41:45] didn't always agree on what did and didn't work in the television adaptation.

[00:41:49] So expect some multifaceted opinions about the book to show transition and speaking of which

[00:41:56] I have Sam here with me right now and hey Sam welcome to team wool shift dust.

[00:42:01] Though you've been an unofficial third member of the pod basically all season.

[00:42:06] Sam you and I have a lot in common but definitely some differences too

[00:42:10] in terms of thinking about silo and our general personalities what would you say are the

[00:42:15] biggest things we have in common and the biggest differences that we have.

[00:42:19] Hi thanks for making me a part of the family officially.

[00:42:23] I think the biggest thing we have in common is our love for seeing the books come to life.

[00:42:28] We also both seem to have a soft spot for the underdog characters but I'm sure we'll talk

[00:42:34] more about them in a minute. Yeah that's true huh we like the puppy dogs don't we?

[00:42:40] And yeah as you've probably noticed Sam is using text-to-speech software to record this podcast

[00:42:45] with me. This is a recent development in their life and I wanted to give Sam a moment to

[00:42:51] talk about what's going on with them. So Sam if you feel comfortable please share a bit of

[00:42:56] your story. If you have been around my account for a while you will know that I've been semi-open

[00:43:02] about my cancer illness. A few months ago I had brain surgery to remove a tumor which worked

[00:43:08] but during the operation there was a complication that meant that my speaking ability was

[00:43:14] compromised. This was a known risk going into it while I am hopeful that I will regain some

[00:43:19] of my speech with time and lots of speech therapy for the time being I rely on sign language

[00:43:26] and lots of writing. Alicia and I had vague plans for doing an episode together and my

[00:43:32] surgeries came in the way of that so it feels extra special to get to do even more than we

[00:43:37] had originally planned. Yeah I really wanted to do this book club with you we've been talking

[00:43:42] through the book spoilers ever since the TV show began and I can't imagine doing this with

[00:43:48] anyone else so I'm really thankful that text-to-speech software is advancing enough

[00:43:53] even the versions that we have access to that we can make this happen so you might hear us

[00:43:58] tweaking the voice as we go but it should add an even more fun dynamic to our banter. Sam now

[00:44:04] you and I bonded over the very things we're gathered here to discuss the books Wool Shift and Dust

[00:44:09] by Hugh Howie and the TV adaptation that came of them. Can you tell us a bit about when,

[00:44:15] where and why you picked up these books? What's your silo story? A bookseller recommended

[00:44:20] Wool to me when I asked for a dystopian read but I didn't form the emotional connection that

[00:44:26] I have to these books now until I read Shift in Rehab. It was basically the only thing that kept

[00:44:32] me sane while I tried to find myself again, sort of. It sounds like a joke but I truly

[00:44:38] haven't stopped talking about these books since then. All my friends are glad I finally found

[00:44:44] my crowd for these talks so they no longer have to fake interest. Yeah I think we're all grateful for

[00:44:51] the Silo Squad community and yeah it's incredible when we're able to connect with storytelling like

[00:44:57] this in a way that moves us and gives us something to hold on to. Now you and I have obviously been

[00:45:03] able to talk a bit more about your experiences and I know what this has meant to you. Yeah for

[00:45:09] me it's a different story but it's kind of the same. I fell in love with the books and I don't know

[00:45:15] maybe I think I fell in love with some of the vulnerabilities of the characters we've talked

[00:45:19] about in there. You know we've talked about loving the underdog but also characters like Walker

[00:45:25] who is one of the first characters I've seen in print who had an anxiety disorder that

[00:45:31] wasn't used as a comedic trope. So yeah the series they're page turners, they're thrillers

[00:45:37] but they're also books with surprising emotional depth too. So for our book club which book are you

[00:45:43] looking forward to talking about the most and why is it shift? No spoilers please. Ha well there is

[00:45:49] obviously the emotional reason I already mentioned but mostly this is where Hugh came into his own

[00:45:55] in terms of world building for me. I try my best not to be the oh just wait kind of book fan

[00:46:02] but I do have to bite my tongue when show only fans talk about the world building of wool.

[00:46:08] Sure it's great truly but uh just you wait. Yeah it's true wool's full of all of these

[00:46:15] mind-blowing reveals but then you get to shift and you're like oh wait that was just like

[00:46:19] kiddie pull time. Yeah shift is definitely where you find out how it all came to be

[00:46:24] and why and where and yeah I think the moral questions it asks are questions that really

[00:46:30] tend to linger with people long after they finish the books. Yeah that's one of the reasons

[00:46:35] people get so excited about this book and the drama and the drama yep although there's some great

[00:46:41] action in wool yeah well yeah there's great action throughout the entire series. Okay well I

[00:46:46] know Sam and I are both eager to break out of the spoilers shackles so we're going to continue

[00:46:50] a more spoilery conversation right after the other half of my interview with Hugh Howie.

[00:46:56] You'll find that episode plus all the other upcoming book club episodes in the Patreon book

[00:47:02] club feed at patreon.com slash wool shift dust one word link in the show notes and we're asking a

[00:47:09] small fee per episode basically the minimum recommended by the patreon fee structure.

[00:47:14] This gives you access to an exclusive feed only for book club members plus you'll be able

[00:47:20] to participate in polls and future discussions as the episodes roll out and of course these ad free

[00:47:27] episodes are a better way to help us support the cost of running this podcast that you're

[00:47:32] listening to right now. The more costs we can cover the more time and money we can devote to

[00:47:37] producing better episodes faster and we're asking for a pledge per episode and not per month because

[00:47:44] we want to make sure that we're only charging you for episodes when they're produced and

[00:47:48] that you're not paying anything during the off months. So Sam for listeners who don't yet follow

[00:47:53] you and any silo fan really should where can they find you? At silo17 squad mostly crying about

[00:48:01] Lucas and Scotty right now thanks Hugh. He does like to make us cry doesn't he? And you can find me

[00:48:10] also on Twitter and on most of their social media at Alicia CB spelled out in the show notes

[00:48:16] for you and if you're new to the feed and you like in-depth coverage picking apart your favorite

[00:48:21] shows lovingly I invite you to go back through the feed and check out my and my political historian

[00:48:28] who hasn't read the books co-host Luke's in-depth analysis of this season and we are members of

[00:48:35] the Lorhounds Networks publishers of this podcast. This is a network full of content covering

[00:48:40] shows, films, books just like this. You'll also find me co-hosting Lorhounds MC Universe episodes

[00:48:47] now covering secret invasion and an upcoming one shot we're going to do about Barbenheimer.

[00:48:53] You'll definitely find me at the double feature. I also want to welcome new to the network

[00:48:58] podcast properly Howard with Steven Anthony. They do fun movie reviews asking is this

[00:49:04] better or worse than the average Ron Howard movie or is it properly Howard? And of course they

[00:49:10] had to kick off their time in the Lorhounds with review of Howard the Duck itself. And you'll also

[00:49:16] find me in the Lorhounds in an upcoming episode talking about the 2021 Vilnav version of Dune,

[00:49:23] Dune Part 1 and some other shows I'm enjoying in the Lorhounds Network while I'm finally catching

[00:49:29] up on the shows Mrs. Davis and the White House Plumbers and I'm really glad to have their

[00:49:34] coverage to go along with those watches. Now I'll be back in your ears in this feed with Luke

[00:49:40] one last time for this season for a special bonus crossover episode with the Lorhounds where we wrap

[00:49:45] up the season and hand out our awards such as best comedian, best death and all the rest.

[00:49:51] But for those of you who are ready to have the wool lifted from your show content only eyes

[00:49:57] we'll see you in the Silo Book Club. The first Silasins have already moved in

[00:50:01] and we want to give a special shout out and thank you to our founding book club members.

[00:50:07] We have Rebecca Gohler, Nyle Matotle, Mick D from New Zealand, Michelle E, John J, Travis T

[00:50:15] and I have to give a special thanks to Rebecca Fan and Dead Eye Jedi Bob who went above and

[00:50:22] beyond in their pledge. Thank you so much to all of you for helping to make this podcast

[00:50:26] possible and you will get your first pick of apartments up top. As for the rest of you we

[00:50:32] look forward to you joining us because while the founders may be mysterious we have all of

[00:50:38] the inside info that Bernard only wishes he knew.