Silo: S2-e6-8 (+ A Christmas Carol) – The Bag of Mail

[00:00:26] Happy New Year again, fair Silozens! The Porters have brought us your mail. And us being, of course, me, Alicia, hi, and Luke. Hi, Luke!

[00:00:36] Hi, Alicia!

[00:00:38] This time we're covering every Silo episode that's aired through Episode 8, plus a special section with some excellent feedback from our holiday series, including a voicemail from Maureen Dillon comparing the man who invented Christmas, the movie, with the book. She's read the book.

[00:00:54] So I will timestamp the different sections of the feedback in case you're only interested in one topic or the other. But we will, of course, start with the Silo feedback.

[00:01:05] Um, so for this section between now and where I'm putting the Christmas content timestamp, we have free reign of spoilers for everything Silo that's aired through Season 2, Episode 8, The Book of Quinn,

[00:01:22] and, and Luke, what's the book spoiler spiel?

[00:01:26] So, um, Alicia has read all the books that go to make up the TV series Silo. I have read none of them. We will, uh, Alicia will be talking about stuff that's happened in the book that's been referenced in the TV show up to Season 2, Episode 8.

[00:01:42] But she won't be talking about anything that might spoil future episodes, and she won't be talking about anything from the book that hasn't already happened in the TV show.

[00:01:53] That's right. I don't want to spoil Luke, and I don't want to spoil any listeners at home who do not want to be spoiled.

[00:01:59] If you do want to be spoiled, we do have an extra spoiler cast feed, The Book Club, and stay tuned to the end for a little bit about that.

[00:02:07] You can also find those links in the show notes. Uh, so, by the way, this is the first time, and this is also going to be true for the next feedback episode.

[00:02:17] Luke and I have actually not watched ahead of the episode we're talking about in this mailbag. We've, we've not seen Episode 9 yet, only through 8.

[00:02:25] No, I'm going to say it feels a little bit strange. I want my power, I want my power back. I want to be in, I want to be in the know.

[00:02:31] I want to be ahead of, I want to be ahead of the listeners, Alicia. I don't like it.

[00:02:35] Oh, see, for me, I'm like, I gives me a more Zen feeling because I'm like, I don't have to watch my tongue.

[00:02:42] I can just speculate normally along with the listeners.

[00:02:47] But yes, basically, you might have noticed, obviously, the main episode was a little bit late this week.

[00:02:53] And, you know, the holidays, man, and I always get sick when I travel. So thank you for your patience with that.

[00:02:59] Yeah, thank you, everybody.

[00:03:00] Yeah. And then next, uh, feedback episode, obviously, it's going to be after the season finale. So everyone will have watched the same amount of everything.

[00:03:10] And then we get to speculate on what might happen in season three.

[00:03:13] Yes, because we know season three is definitely coming.

[00:03:17] Yeah.

[00:03:17] Woo!

[00:03:19] Yeah, so we definitely we want to hear all of your thoughts about the season finale and also what you're hoping for or expecting or theorizing for season three.

[00:03:29] Please share your thoughts via WolfShiftDustPodcast at gmail.com.

[00:03:33] You'll find that link in the show notes.

[00:03:36] And this, um, this episode, as Luke said, we're going to be covering basically anything that has aired so far as fair game.

[00:03:42] But we're especially focusing on the episodes six through eight of season two, barricades, the dive and the book of Quinn.

[00:03:52] Now opening the listener feedback channel.

[00:03:56] So feedback's grouped mostly by episode this time, and we got a lot of mail-in feedback this week.

[00:04:02] So we didn't pull as much from the discord as usual.

[00:04:05] Uh, so do email your feedback to WolfShiftDustPodcast at gmail.com.

[00:04:09] If you want to be sure it gets included, it's just easier for me to gather it that way.

[00:04:13] We're going to start out by taking a little step back and revisiting episode five.

[00:04:17] We have a message from Chumbaruni who says, just heard the pod and to fill you in on my fall protection expertise.

[00:04:25] Because remember, Chumbaruni is the one who said that Noxon and Shirley would be cut in half when they jumped.

[00:04:32] Yeah.

[00:04:32] With the rigging.

[00:04:33] Um, Chumbaruni says, I worked at a construction engineering company where we engineer a bunch of different things,

[00:04:40] all related to things that take place in typical commercial construction job sites.

[00:04:44] Things like scaffold design, structure design, anchorage design, rigging design, and of course, fall protection design.

[00:04:51] So I design it for construction workers working in high places.

[00:04:55] And we have many horror stories about falls that resulted in amputations, people becoming paralyzed, and fatalities.

[00:05:02] Yeah, yikes.

[00:05:02] And I guess you know better than just about anyone.

[00:05:05] They should hire you as a consultant.

[00:05:08] Yes, they definitely should.

[00:05:09] And if they do, we want a cut.

[00:05:14] Luke's like, what's our angle?

[00:05:15] Hold on.

[00:05:16] Yeah.

[00:05:21] Cassandra says, Juliet's arm wound, I believe, was from the episode in season one, I forget which, sorry,

[00:05:27] where she was trying to get away by climbing down the trash recycle chute.

[00:05:30] That was the finale, wasn't it?

[00:05:33] Yes, it was.

[00:05:34] Yes, it was.

[00:05:35] It was either that or episode nine, but I think the finale.

[00:05:37] But anyway, and raiders were throwing things down the chute to knock her down.

[00:05:40] When she fell to the bottom, a rather large appliance came down right after her and clipped her arm.

[00:05:45] And yeah, I mean, it's definitely from that.

[00:05:47] But then I think they also showed that being the same arm in the same spot where the tape came loose when she walked outside.

[00:05:55] So I think they are telling us that that made it worse.

[00:05:59] Yeah, that it got infected by whatever is in the atmosphere outside.

[00:06:04] Yeah.

[00:06:05] Yeah.

[00:06:05] But yeah, I think you're right that that was where the original wound came from.

[00:06:11] Yeah.

[00:06:13] Dan G says, really enjoyed the episode five pod discussion?

[00:06:17] Thank you.

[00:06:17] Fun to listen to and discussion makes me want to rewatch the episode so I pick up details I missed the first time through.

[00:06:22] And yeah, I think I watch it three times every week and I think Luke is at least twice, right?

[00:06:29] I really did bump on the notion by Alicia and Luke that being a porter would be a great job to have.

[00:06:34] While the books may have made it clearer that being a porter was pretty rough, the show takes pains to do the same.

[00:06:41] Diego.

[00:06:41] Oh, yeah.

[00:06:42] Diego, who's questioning the person's name was Calvin, I think.

[00:06:45] Yeah, Calvin is hunched over the entire time.

[00:06:48] And I think it's Claire who makes a comment about there never being any older porters.

[00:06:52] Apologies, but quote unquote, not needing a gym membership seems a bit glib.

[00:06:56] And yeah, I'll admit I was being a bit glib in that.

[00:07:02] And I'm sorry if I offended anyone who does similar physical labor.

[00:07:07] I don't mean to minimize it at all.

[00:07:11] I think probably, Luke, you have your own reasons for wanting to be a porter.

[00:07:17] Yeah.

[00:07:18] I don't think you need to be disrespectful.

[00:07:20] I take the point that actually, yeah, that's a good point.

[00:07:24] That they're going to be carrying a lot of weight for a long time.

[00:07:28] And that's going to leave them with all kinds of physical injuries or disabilities.

[00:07:34] So, yeah, no, that's a really good point.

[00:07:38] Yeah.

[00:07:39] No, we take the point.

[00:07:40] And I did actually say that the way that Calvin's body language was done, I said in the spoiler

[00:07:46] cast with Abby, that I thought that that was very effective in conveying that.

[00:07:50] So I see that.

[00:07:52] And I'm sorry if I was a little offhand.

[00:07:56] And he also says, I think Camille's actions seem odd.

[00:08:00] But I would wager that she has a plan to get her husband back in power.

[00:08:03] She does not seem like the type to take a moral stand if there's nothing in it for her or her family.

[00:08:09] And I think it stands out to me because class and cast are such huge themes in the siloed story,

[00:08:16] even if they aren't pushed to the fore of the plot each week.

[00:08:20] Oh, this is about the porter.

[00:08:22] Yeah.

[00:08:24] Where siloed inhabitants are born determines much of their life just as it does in real life.

[00:08:28] The stark manner in which the Order directs siloed leadership to blame mechanical is also a close reflection of our society.

[00:08:35] Yes, they have the power to shut things down.

[00:08:38] But Knox is right.

[00:08:39] They can only do that once.

[00:08:40] Their power is limited and exercising it hurts everyone, not just the people on IT or judicial.

[00:08:46] And as we learn in episode five, IT has their own power source anyway.

[00:08:51] With the already existing prejudice about down deepers in silo culture,

[00:08:55] getting siloed citizens to turn against them is not a stretch.

[00:08:59] I see Bernard as someone who truly believes his actions are all based on saving the silo and its population.

[00:09:05] He doesn't want what happened to silo 17 to happen in silo 18.

[00:09:10] I see Sims as superpower hungry.

[00:09:12] He's pursuing power for the sake of having power, not in the name of keeping the silos safe.

[00:09:17] It would be a great story arc to follow Bernard from where he began his ascent to IT.

[00:09:21] And yeah, I would love to see those flashbacks, which are not in the book,

[00:09:24] but I would love to see it in the show.

[00:09:26] Luke, thoughts about all of the above?

[00:09:28] Yeah, I would like to see.

[00:09:31] Maybe not necessarily see in flashback, but just hear Bernard talk more about his youth and where he came from.

[00:09:40] I do think the point about class and cast being subtext to the whole story is well taken.

[00:09:49] I still want to push back on this idea that it somehow makes sense to turn the rest of the silo against mechanical.

[00:09:59] Because, yeah, I understand the allegory for our world, for the real world.

[00:10:07] But the silo is literally a much more enclosed environment.

[00:10:14] And those divisions of cast and class are much starker in the silo than they are in the real world.

[00:10:26] And because the silo is an artificial environment, you know, it's not a naturally livable environment,

[00:10:36] mechanical has enormous power over whether or not the silo functions.

[00:10:44] In a way that no individual group of people in our world being much more, being much larger, being much more complex, being much more decentralized and dispersed.

[00:10:59] I don't think there is any one group of people that has the ability to make the world stop literally in the way that mechanical could.

[00:11:15] So I think this is one of the things where there are allegories to the real world, but the silo is by design a very different environment.

[00:11:25] I mean, I think that you were right in, of course, a silo is a gross simplification of larger society, especially, you know, there's only 10,000 people in a silo.

[00:11:36] But I think that's also, you know, what you said about against an individual group.

[00:11:41] I think that's why we've seen Bernard place so much emphasis in his tactics on getting mechanical to turn on each other.

[00:11:51] Yes, I think that's true.

[00:11:54] Well, Jean's got his eyes on the villains.

[00:11:57] He says, Rob and Camille gotta go clean ASAP.

[00:12:01] Bernard is a scary individual, sneaky, creepy in every way imaginable.

[00:12:06] He will do anything to maintain his hold on the silo, whether it's because he truly believes he's saving lives or because he's adverse to not be in charge, whatever.

[00:12:14] He's a dangerous person.

[00:12:16] And I think the Sims now truly understand just how much of a threat he is.

[00:12:20] Bernard, I see, is a great storyteller.

[00:12:22] But when one digs a little deeper into his narrative, pushes back on his telling, then the cracks appear and he's just as power hungry as the rest.

[00:12:31] In my opinion, I would be fascinated to see his rise to power to see if there are differences slash similarities with the Sims.

[00:12:38] And then after episode six, Jean says, Bernard's face when he's speaking to her corpse and then that grunt dude is undoubtedly heinous.

[00:12:47] As I watch the Sims and Bernard circle each other like sharks in water, I realize the only thing I want is for the Kraken to be released and end them.

[00:12:57] So who is so joined for the next episode?

[00:13:00] Who is the Kraken in that snow?

[00:13:03] So by the way, Jean is my co-host for all the Marvel and DC episodes.

[00:13:09] So if you want to hear more of his takes.

[00:13:12] Also, Jean, I'm sorry.

[00:13:15] I'm sorry, dude.

[00:13:16] But the odds of the Sims going clean.

[00:13:19] It's not going to happen.

[00:13:21] It's just so not going to happen.

[00:13:25] I don't know.

[00:13:27] What does clean even mean?

[00:13:28] They're always going to be gaming the system somehow.

[00:13:33] Yeah.

[00:13:34] I think the point about Bernard being an excellent storyteller is a really good point.

[00:13:43] And the person he's telling stories to most often is himself.

[00:13:47] The whole idea that he had no choice but to kill Mary Meadows.

[00:13:52] Of course he did.

[00:13:53] Right.

[00:13:54] Of course he did.

[00:13:55] Yeah.

[00:13:56] Yeah.

[00:13:57] So this ties into it.

[00:13:59] To each he said, I don't say this too much, but many out Bernard on the ultimate evil level, but he views himself as the hero.

[00:14:06] Look what I've given up to save 10,000 people.

[00:14:09] What have I sacrificed?

[00:14:11] Everything.

[00:14:11] Everything.

[00:14:12] Reminds me of that Luthan speech from Andor.

[00:14:16] Yes.

[00:14:17] I've been in my life for a sunrise I will never see.

[00:14:21] Yeah.

[00:14:22] I mean, if we can get Still and Skarsgård in season three, like scenes with Still and Skarsgård and Tim Robbins.

[00:14:32] Oh, book readers, fan cast.

[00:14:33] Yeah.

[00:14:35] Yeah.

[00:14:35] Like the acting energy contained within that scene might just level whole villages, frankly.

[00:14:43] Yeah.

[00:14:44] It is like every, it's a cliche that every villain is the hero of their own story.

[00:14:50] But I think in-

[00:14:52] In a good story, that's true.

[00:14:53] Yeah.

[00:14:54] Yeah.

[00:14:54] And I think in Bernard's case, it definitely is true.

[00:14:57] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:59] Because that's the only way he can do what he does.

[00:15:04] And this is the thing, Bernard is undoubtedly evil, but he's not a monster.

[00:15:12] And I think introducing the character of Mary Meadows and explaining that relationship to the audience is a really good bit of adaptation.

[00:15:22] Because I think you've said before, Alicia, that she's not a character in the book.

[00:15:26] No.

[00:15:27] But I think she does a lot.

[00:15:30] A, she's fascinating in her own right.

[00:15:33] Right.

[00:15:33] I really like her as a character.

[00:15:35] Yeah.

[00:15:35] But I also think she does a lot to make Bernard something other than mustache twirling villain.

[00:15:42] Yeah.

[00:15:43] But also not in a way where it's just like she exists to flesh him out.

[00:15:48] Exactly.

[00:15:48] Because she was also someone with her own goals and agency that tells us things about the silo and the nature of the society there.

[00:15:56] And yeah.

[00:15:56] And she also helped unlock Lucas, the Lucas question in a way.

[00:16:00] Like, how do we get Lucas to be Bernard's shadow?

[00:16:03] Because book readers know that's supposed to be coming now, you know?

[00:16:06] Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:07] Yeah.

[00:16:08] And speaking of like things I'd like to flash back on, I don't necessarily think this would be best done in flashback.

[00:16:17] But maybe Lucas could come across something in Meadows' effects or yeah, something like that.

[00:16:25] Which would give us a better sense of why she was so desperate to go outside, you know?

[00:16:33] What was she expecting to find when she went out there?

[00:16:37] Yeah.

[00:16:38] Yeah.

[00:16:39] Well, I mean, hopefully wherever this scavenger hunt Lucas is on leads, hopefully their lies answered at the end of the rainbow.

[00:16:49] Yeah.

[00:16:50] Okay.

[00:16:51] So we got a few messages about the nature of the silo system in general.

[00:16:54] So starting with Cassandra from Massachusetts, from Wareheim.

[00:16:59] Wareheim?

[00:16:59] Wareheim.

[00:17:01] Cassandra says, when slash what caused the silos to come into existence?

[00:17:06] Some sort of apocalypse?

[00:17:08] But if it was war, there wouldn't have been enough time to build them.

[00:17:11] The technology slash computers throughout the silo that most have access to look like the PCs from the 80s or 90s with the large monitors with docs or with DOS or Linux operating systems.

[00:17:23] And the hard drive that was destroyed looks like an old 20 gigabyte IDE drive I still have hanging around.

[00:17:29] Ha ha.

[00:17:30] However, in the watch room, watchers room, it looks like they're using more modern large flat screen monitors, which leads me to believe the silos were built way before they were occupied.

[00:17:42] Maybe some secret government project.

[00:17:44] And when people moved into them for reasons unknown right now, the IT department brought more modern computer systems.

[00:17:51] And the VR headset was from 2015 or so.

[00:17:55] So what do you think about that?

[00:17:58] I think we spoke about this last season.

[00:18:04] I've always been of the opinion that the disaster that drove people into the silo was probably climate change or some form of natural catastrophe.

[00:18:18] Because it would like, as Cassandra was saying, war would happen too quickly for the silos to be constructed.

[00:18:27] So it would have to be it would have to be a disaster that was slow enough moving to allow you to build the silos, but certain enough in its effect that you would build the silos.

[00:18:40] So it had to be something slow moving yet inevitable in result.

[00:18:45] And I don't see, apart from catastrophic climate change, what that would be.

[00:18:52] I think the idea that when the silos were built and then occupied sometime later is an interesting one.

[00:19:07] And yeah, I agree with Cassandra that there was probably multiple different waves of technology brought into the silos.

[00:19:17] I would just say, think about the fact that the technology, the less access there is to a room, the higher the technology.

[00:19:29] So we see like this 80s, 90s stuff around the silos.

[00:19:32] We see something a bit more modern, a bit like more like our time, a little before our time in the watchers room.

[00:19:40] You know, and there's a smaller group of what, like a dozen people who have access to that room.

[00:19:45] And then we see the room that only one or two people have access to has the most high tech, slightly beyond our technology.

[00:19:55] Yeah.

[00:19:56] And I did, did, but am I right in thinking Bernard said the VR, no, the headset wasn't from 2019.

[00:20:02] The video, the video, the video.

[00:20:05] Yeah.

[00:20:05] But I mean, they just have, they just, the legacy, it's the legacy because they are keeping there.

[00:20:12] It's a, they're handing down human knowledge and artifacts basically.

[00:20:15] Yeah.

[00:20:16] So there's going to be, you know, there's also the, um, etch-a-sketch.

[00:20:21] So the fridge of it.

[00:20:24] What was it?

[00:20:26] And I've never to be forgotten the Pez, obviously.

[00:20:29] Obviously.

[00:20:30] Uh, so Cassandra continues.

[00:20:32] Also the fact that Bernard could see what Juliet was seeing through her helmet as she got to Silo 17 had to be wireless slash cellular slash Bluetooth technology of some sort.

[00:20:43] Side note, how the heck are all those computers still running?

[00:20:46] It's been 140 years since the last rebellion and there have been other rebellions.

[00:20:51] So they must've come way before that hundreds of years ago, still confused in the timeline.

[00:20:55] And I have to say there is a, um, there, yeah.

[00:21:01] People are always asking like, how does the food last that long?

[00:21:03] How does the supplies last that long?

[00:21:05] And, um, I have my head cannon, but I can't say until we find out more.

[00:21:09] Okay.

[00:21:10] Well, but we do, we do know exactly how long it's been.

[00:21:13] Um, because Bernard says it's been 352 years.

[00:21:17] Right.

[00:21:17] Yes.

[00:21:18] Now we do.

[00:21:19] Yeah.

[00:21:20] Yeah.

[00:21:21] Uh, this, this email was written before the latest episode.

[00:21:25] Oh, yeah.

[00:21:26] Um, and she says, I think the silos are all connected for power and possibly communication

[00:21:32] purposes.

[00:21:33] The tunnel near the top in the diagram on that.

[00:21:35] It's on the bottom in the diagram and the hard drive, uh, has wires going through it,

[00:21:40] which is why Silo 17 has limited power.

[00:21:42] Oh, I see.

[00:21:43] So there's, yeah.

[00:21:43] So there's the tunnel at the bottom and then there's wires going into it and judicial.

[00:21:48] So it seems they have outside power somehow.

[00:21:52] Um, other silos are providing the power.

[00:21:55] Cassandra theorizes as Solo said from the outside, maybe just some are connected or it's

[00:22:01] an entire spider web network of all 50 silos.

[00:22:04] Do you think it could be like that?

[00:22:05] Like a backup system where they can back each other up if someone goes down and they can keep

[00:22:10] the servers running?

[00:22:11] Yeah.

[00:22:12] I think that, I think that's what's happening with Silo 17, but it's not just the servers.

[00:22:18] They've clearly got in just enough power to keep the farm running as well for like a minimal

[00:22:25] level of food and oxygen as well.

[00:22:27] But something that Silo 17 has that, um, we don't see in Silo 18 is wires being strung

[00:22:35] across the ceiling.

[00:22:37] So it does seem that they're kind of piping power to or from somewhere.

[00:22:43] Yeah.

[00:22:44] Cause they didn't say that there's wires to the farm on the diagram that they found in

[00:22:49] 18.

[00:22:50] Yeah.

[00:22:52] Yeah.

[00:22:53] Good point.

[00:22:54] Hopefully we'll find out more about that.

[00:22:57] This in the next two episodes, only two episodes left.

[00:23:01] Um, she says, I think Bernard knows there's other silos and knew about Silo 17's rebellion,

[00:23:07] but was still horrified to see the carnage through Juliet's helmet.

[00:23:10] And yeah, I think you're right.

[00:23:12] If Juliet does make it back to Silo 18, is she just going to knock on the camera, say,

[00:23:17] honey, I'm home and expect them to letter it.

[00:23:20] Imagine the chaos that would ensue.

[00:23:22] Can't wait for the rest of the season.

[00:23:23] I think after the season finishes, I may start reading the books.

[00:23:28] Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:29] My question.

[00:23:30] Like where, how does she think this is going to go?

[00:23:32] Well, I mean, so Solo does kind of raise, Solo does kind of raise that issue, which is

[00:23:38] if you, if you go back to Silo 18, um, what do you think is going to happen?

[00:23:44] Because that was what Solo was saying.

[00:23:46] You need to fix the pump, um, first in case they don't like, in case, um, that goes wrong

[00:23:53] and you end up, you end up either dying in the journey or they end up not letting you

[00:23:58] in.

[00:23:58] Right.

[00:23:59] Right.

[00:23:59] Yeah.

[00:24:00] Yeah.

[00:24:02] Okay.

[00:24:02] So this is a good place to take a pause.

[00:24:05] And when we come back, we're going to dive into episode six questions and feedback.

[00:24:09] Just a second.

[00:24:13] All right.

[00:24:14] So Dan G says in episode six, we can already see how the quote unquote blame mechanical

[00:24:19] plan is having potential.

[00:24:21] Mechanical is not a monolith and people are the people there are pointing fingers and wondering

[00:24:27] why they should possibly sacrifice their own family for the sake of Knox and Shirley Walker

[00:24:32] had to give a pep talk in an effort to keep mechanical United under their oppressors.

[00:24:37] Yes, they can shut everything down, but they also fear reprisal for doing so a real life

[00:24:43] equivalent to this are immigrants in the U S whether here with proper documentation or

[00:24:48] not, they are easily blamed for the country's ills.

[00:24:51] Immigrants have plenty of power by virtue of their jobs.

[00:24:55] If United, they could shut down many industries, food factory processing and farming are two

[00:25:01] good examples of where immigration raids, uh, injured farmers and chicken companies.

[00:25:06] This did not matter to the electorate last month.

[00:25:08] And many were willing to believe false narratives about immigrants eating pets or stealing jobs.

[00:25:13] Also immigrants are not a monolith and polls show that many more voted Republican than

[00:25:17] have done so in the past.

[00:25:18] And yeah, that last point is what I would make too, is it surprises me the number of people

[00:25:24] who could be, you know, in line for deportation voting for someone who says he wants to deport

[00:25:30] everyone.

[00:25:31] Yeah.

[00:25:32] I mean, yeah, I, like I said, I don't mean to keep belaboring the point, but I think it's,

[00:25:40] I think that there are allegories in this for the real world, but I don't think you want to,

[00:25:44] I don't think you want to read too close of an allegory.

[00:25:49] I think the silo is its own world with its own rules and its own both physical and psychological,

[00:25:59] um, environments.

[00:26:02] And, um, I mean, you wouldn't, you would know this, you would know this better than I do,

[00:26:07] Alicia.

[00:26:07] Do you get the sense that Hugh Howey was writing it as an, was writing the books as allegorical

[00:26:16] or not?

[00:26:18] Um, I wouldn't say allegorical.

[00:26:21] There's, I just paused because I want to say something without you guys thinking that this

[00:26:26] is some sort of spoiler or something, because it's not, but I will say that Hugh Howey, I'm

[00:26:33] serious.

[00:26:33] This is not a spoiler, but, uh, whatever the situation is, Hugh Howey clearly has an interest

[00:26:41] in psychological study and in, you know, the, uh, just, yeah, studying humanity.

[00:26:49] Um, and so I think he approaches this from especially a psychological perspective.

[00:26:55] Okay.

[00:26:57] Uh, Brandon says, Hey friends, Brandon here again, what an episode.

[00:27:02] And this is about episode six.

[00:27:03] So much to unpack.

[00:27:04] So much to think about a few takeaways.

[00:27:06] I wrote down while watching Knox is too damn good looking.

[00:27:09] I feel bad for our loin afflicted friend from last week's feedback.

[00:27:16] I mean, not wrong.

[00:27:18] Kathleen Billings with the natural 20 deception role on that guard.

[00:27:23] Brilliant.

[00:27:24] Yeah.

[00:27:24] Yeah.

[00:27:24] Kathleen's really winning me over in the back half of the season.

[00:27:27] About halfway through my anxiety was at an all time high for this show.

[00:27:32] Bernard finally being vulnerable and doubting himself.

[00:27:35] Only it's directed to the dead love of his life that he murdered.

[00:27:39] Hilariously evil stuff.

[00:27:42] Bernard swearing in Lucas.

[00:27:43] I saw coming, but what the hell is the legacy?

[00:27:47] Sounds like it could answer a lot of questions.

[00:27:48] And yeah, I'm curious, Brandon, now that you've seen the legacy, what you think?

[00:27:53] Sheriff Billings realizing that the herbs are causing his syndrome.

[00:27:56] I don't know.

[00:27:57] I don't know that I read it that way.

[00:27:59] What do you think?

[00:27:59] No, I didn't.

[00:28:00] No, I didn't read it that way.

[00:28:02] I read it that basically the syndrome might be psychosomatic.

[00:28:09] Yeah.

[00:28:09] And that basically Billings has been so distracted and so hyper-focused that whatever part of his brain was telling him he was ill, forgot to tell him he was ill, basically.

[00:28:31] Or what if they had been intentionally grooming Billings, feeding him something that made him think he had the syndrome?

[00:28:40] I don't know where, but, or he was exposed to something up there.

[00:28:43] And now that he's in the deep, he's no longer exposed to that.

[00:28:47] Yeah.

[00:28:48] That could all be true, but I mean, I'm not saying it wasn't the herbs that were giving him the syndrome.

[00:28:53] Yeah.

[00:28:54] That hadn't occurred to him.

[00:28:55] No, but I don't think it's Kathleen's herbs.

[00:28:58] Unless they were intoxicated, tainted by someone else somehow.

[00:29:02] No, and I certainly don't think Kathleen would ever do anything to her.

[00:29:05] No, obviously not on purpose regardless, but yeah.

[00:29:09] Yeah.

[00:29:10] I don't know.

[00:29:10] I think, yeah, it's rather, it's a removal of something, whether it's a psychological or some.

[00:29:16] Yeah.

[00:29:17] Something he was.

[00:29:18] Yeah.

[00:29:20] And, uh, Brandon ends.

[00:29:22] And finally, Dr. Nichols asking about the tape slash Juliet and the small interaction with Solo and Juliet talking about pumping water only solidifies my theory that people will make their way to the other silo at some point.

[00:29:34] So happy.

[00:29:36] We are getting seasons three and four and they're filming them back to back.

[00:29:39] Merry Christmas, happy holidays, Brandon.

[00:29:41] So what do you think about that?

[00:29:43] Are they filming them back to back?

[00:29:46] Uh, yeah.

[00:29:47] Okay, cool.

[00:29:47] I mean, yeah, that's, that's one of the points of, um, renewing them both because it's cheaper to do it like that.

[00:29:54] Okay.

[00:29:55] Awesome.

[00:29:56] But what do you think about, uh, people making their way from, to the other silo?

[00:30:02] Well, see, I got, I go slightly wider.

[00:30:04] And that, I think like my ideal, like end scene for season four, episode 10 is all the people from all 50 silos, like mingling together, like mingling together as one big, you know, community, community of humanity.

[00:30:22] Mm-hmm.

[00:30:24] Like all the, you know, the, the half million people that are in the silos, just all like coming together as one community.

[00:30:32] And they skip through the tunnel that everyone thinks connects them.

[00:30:37] Exactly.

[00:30:38] Yeah.

[00:30:39] That's my, that's my, that's my, that's my like.

[00:30:41] They sing, come by, yeah, my love.

[00:30:42] Yeah, exactly.

[00:30:44] I'd like to buy the wool, the coke.

[00:30:49] But yeah, that's like, yeah, that's like my end scene fade to black.

[00:30:54] Last episode.

[00:30:55] Yeah.

[00:30:56] All right.

[00:30:57] Let's see.

[00:30:58] Yeah.

[00:30:58] Um, so Christina J, the aforementioned loin afflicted friend says Alicia and Luke, great coverage and discussion as always.

[00:31:07] Finally, some hot and sexy Shroxy Sherlock's scenes between Knox and Shirley Knox with his shirt off doing his best Amos Burton impression.

[00:31:16] Expansion, expanse reference.

[00:31:18] And I appreciate that expanse reference because I think that Amos is the one truly good character on the show.

[00:31:24] He's brilliant character.

[00:31:25] And yes, hot.

[00:31:26] The entirety of this episode, his lust factor was gaining stock until it exploded.

[00:31:31] Very much like my loins when that kiss finally happened.

[00:31:35] Way to thirst trap Apple TV.

[00:31:40] I think Luke's dying.

[00:31:50] I don't know what to say to that.

[00:31:54] I mean, yeah, it was, it was hot.

[00:31:57] We can get back to their hookup stuff.

[00:32:00] Yeah.

[00:32:02] She says, I'm with Luke.

[00:32:04] I have to keep reminding myself, Bernard, you bastard, you killed Mary Meadows and we're all mourning.

[00:32:08] So how dare you join us?

[00:32:09] But LOL, still an impactful scene as previously.

[00:32:13] Bernard, in order, uh, Bernard, in order to follow orders, had to emotionally tie himself off from his humanity.

[00:32:21] Mary, with all her clearer, cleaner, offensive relics, uh, proved he still held onto this emotional tie despite the risk.

[00:32:30] However, the minute that risk comes into the light and he quote unquote felt he had no other option because his mind simply cannot conjure truly going against the pact or the order.

[00:32:42] I would say Alicia interjecting.

[00:32:43] Um, and despite his desire, Mary wasn't interested.

[00:32:46] Welcome to indoctrination.

[00:32:48] I think that aspect is important and allows for the empathy one feels for Bernard and even Sims to a certain extent.

[00:32:55] If the actor were better, sorry, Luke.

[00:32:57] Common is talented artist acting at this level.

[00:33:01] Uh, yeah.

[00:33:02] So Luke loves Common.

[00:33:04] Christina's not convinced.

[00:33:06] Okay.

[00:33:07] Um, you know, wouldn't do, wouldn't do for us all to think the same.

[00:33:11] I think that the idea, um, I think the idea of indoctrination is a, is a good way, is a, is a good way of putting it.

[00:33:20] Because like, I, I, I just keep coming back to, to that line that Meadow says.

[00:33:26] It's like trying to imagine a color you've never seen.

[00:33:28] Yeah.

[00:33:29] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:30] That's such a good line.

[00:33:32] Yeah.

[00:33:32] Bernard is so hardwired into the world as prescribed by the order.

[00:33:40] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:41] That he, that, that he can't think outside of the parameters set by that.

[00:33:49] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:49] Um, and so he, and so he is in the most sort of literal sense indoctrinated into following the logic of what is in that book.

[00:33:59] Regardless of whether that logic, um, makes sense.

[00:34:03] Because like, as we said on the, the episode eight review, he keeps going on about the risk this rebellion is posing to the silo.

[00:34:11] And, but nobody has talked about opening the, the airlock.

[00:34:14] Right.

[00:34:15] Nobody's talked about anything that would put the silo at risk.

[00:34:18] But Bernard is, Bernard can't imagine a scenario where there is a rebellion that that is not the end point of.

[00:34:27] Because the order says that any rebellion runs the risk of.

[00:34:31] Yeah.

[00:34:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:33] Yeah, you make a good point.

[00:34:35] Yeah.

[00:34:35] And Christina adds, of course it's easier with our free will to demand he simply shake his invisible chains.

[00:34:41] But we know to be removed from a cult, it's about deprogramming.

[00:34:45] And unlike, say, the Sims, the proof of his actions going awry is something he literally can see.

[00:34:52] Yeah.

[00:34:52] Yeah.

[00:34:53] Like he can see Juliet going to that dead silo and yeah, the horror is there.

[00:34:57] And I mean, so far as we know, we might be, this might turn out to be, this might turn out to be wrong in future episodes and future seasons.

[00:35:08] But as far as we know, like his relationship with Mary Meadows is the only significant emotional relationship.

[00:35:17] Right.

[00:35:17] Because we don't know anything about Bernard's parents, family.

[00:35:21] You know, as far as we know, he doesn't, we know nothing about them if they even existed.

[00:35:30] His parents?

[00:35:31] I mean, yes, his parents obviously had days.

[00:35:34] I use, somebody has the AI Bernard theory.

[00:35:37] Are you buying into that now?

[00:35:39] Um, no, but there's a possibility that he could have been orphaned.

[00:35:44] Okay.

[00:35:45] Um, yeah, I think what I'm saying is so far as we know, like his relationship with Mary Meadows is the only like emotionally significant relationship we've ever seen him in.

[00:35:57] Yeah.

[00:35:58] Uh, Christina says, in my mind anyway, his hunt for what Quinn left behind is absolutely irrational to the point he actually makes Lucas his shadow due to an emotional itch.

[00:36:08] Which he likely doesn't fully understand.

[00:36:10] What kept the woman he loved from being with him.

[00:36:13] Uh, while surely it will certainly lead to revelations, this is the same man that was so against learning anything outside the order, he immediately smashed a drive, the drive to begin with.

[00:36:23] Now it's obsessive.

[00:36:25] Something tells me whatever the truth is will devastate him.

[00:36:28] Um, well, oh, I almost feel sorry for him in that.

[00:36:31] Um, Paul Billings has opened an investigation into Meadows.

[00:36:36] Considering Sims and his wife were in charge of the campaign and it was Sims who actually has Prince on a murder weapon, do you think Bernard will take the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone?

[00:36:46] Um, have we seen, do they have, uh, the technology to like look at Prince?

[00:36:51] Have we seen that?

[00:36:52] No, we haven't.

[00:36:54] Um, or at least I don't think we have.

[00:36:57] Hmm.

[00:36:58] No, I can't, I can't think of, no, I'm pretty sure we haven't.

[00:37:03] Yeah.

[00:37:04] Did we ever see anyone get fingerprinted?

[00:37:05] I don't know.

[00:37:06] Write in if we're forgetting something, but yeah.

[00:37:08] Uh, she says, side note, do you think the silo has the ability to complete an autopsy to the extent that it can detect poisoning?

[00:37:15] The fact that she isn't recycled yet makes me think it's possible.

[00:37:19] Uh, so yeah, this, this is a couple episodes later and we haven't heard anything more.

[00:37:23] So I'm assuming she was buried, but that's a good question.

[00:37:26] Like how much do they examine?

[00:37:28] She was in a morgue.

[00:37:30] She was like laying on an exam table.

[00:37:32] So, and if they, if they have, we know they have, we know they have doctors.

[00:37:38] So why wouldn't they?

[00:37:40] But we know that they do not have microscopes because when, uh, when Hannah, you know, Juliet's mom tried to make a microscope.

[00:37:47] That's true.

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:49] Yeah.

[00:37:50] That's very true.

[00:37:51] So I guess that would get in the way unless they could do some chemical test.

[00:37:55] Yeah.

[00:37:57] No, I think that's, that's, that's an interesting gray area.

[00:38:01] Mm.

[00:38:01] Mm.

[00:38:03] So Rebecca fan says a good tight episode about episode six, uh, with a quicker pace.

[00:38:08] I liked the constant beat in the background music.

[00:38:11] This episode, Billings and Kennedy, what a powerful scene.

[00:38:14] I am immensely curious how Billings will deal with the new info.

[00:38:18] I loved Walker and Dr.

[00:38:20] Nichols together.

[00:38:21] That small scene added some much needed closure to the relationship with Juliet.

[00:38:25] Bernard and Meadows.

[00:38:26] Wow.

[00:38:27] Tim Robbins is dynamic in this show.

[00:38:29] And Bernard nerding out a little with Lucas was fun to watch.

[00:38:32] I do feel for Lucas.

[00:38:34] He must be near a breakdown with all that's happened to him in such a short span of time.

[00:38:39] A great episode all around that said, I'm beyond ready for Jules to return.

[00:38:42] Wow.

[00:38:43] Yeah.

[00:38:43] I'm curious, uh, what you thought of the last two episodes.

[00:38:46] There's lots of Juliet, especially in the last one, but yeah.

[00:38:50] Yeah.

[00:38:51] Uh, Ashley S says that scene with Billings and Patrick.

[00:38:55] Wow.

[00:38:55] I kept thinking here it is.

[00:38:56] Here's what we really see who Paul is when put to the test and man, did he show up that

[00:39:02] chair slam was powerful.

[00:39:04] Uh, so Hey, people agree with me that he pulled that off.

[00:39:09] Uh, loving all the, all the development in the down deep, but I'm afraid of who might be

[00:39:16] the rats down there.

[00:39:17] No one is safe.

[00:39:18] Not even the apartment heads as Martha pointed out.

[00:39:20] Watch out Knox.

[00:39:21] Well, yeah.

[00:39:22] So the first rat was obviously Maeve.

[00:39:24] We know by now, but now we've got Martha as the rat and I can't handle it.

[00:39:29] Yeah, no, that sucks.

[00:39:32] That sucks.

[00:39:33] So Aaron K said, I did a rewatch and I'm surprised that Juliet had an infection.

[00:39:37] I thought for sure it was radiation poisoning from a time outside from a potential nuclear

[00:39:42] war.

[00:39:43] Now I'm questioning my theory on the world.

[00:39:46] So, Hmm.

[00:39:48] I'm not going to weigh in on that.

[00:39:49] Yeah.

[00:39:50] Dan G says, I don't really trust Bernard to keep Lucas as his shadow beyond the point.

[00:39:55] Bernard needs Lucas and his abilities.

[00:39:57] I can see Bernard cutting Lucas loose, even if having him sent back to the mines once

[00:40:02] Bernard decides Lucas has used up his usefulness to him.

[00:40:05] And I just going to point out that Dan wrote this before he saw the latest episode where,

[00:40:11] uh, Sims says basically exactly this.

[00:40:15] Okay.

[00:40:15] And sub zero agrees.

[00:40:16] If anything, Lucas's life expectancy dropped when he became the shadow.

[00:40:21] Okay.

[00:40:22] There's some points in that.

[00:40:23] We talked about that a bit more in the main episode breakdown.

[00:40:27] Um, all right, moving on to episode seven feedback for Elisa says thrilling episode.

[00:40:33] Love seeing Bernard start to lose control.

[00:40:35] The legacy reveal was insane.

[00:40:38] Why hide all this history and information from the people in the silo?

[00:40:41] I guess silo 17 is more than just solo.

[00:40:45] Um, well, okay.

[00:40:46] Wait, let's pause at this.

[00:40:49] Why, why do we think that they, why do you think Luke that they want to hide all this history

[00:40:54] and information from the people in the silo?

[00:40:56] We got some answers.

[00:40:57] Yeah, we got, we got some, we got, we got one, um, sort of story, um, about why this,

[00:41:05] why this is in episode eight.

[00:41:07] I think, I think a lot of it is to do with, I think a lot of it is to do with wanting to,

[00:41:15] wanting to exert control.

[00:41:17] Um, I think the, cause the entire, the entire basis of the silo is that everybody has their

[00:41:27] jobs.

[00:41:27] Everybody has their roles.

[00:41:31] This is, you know, this is a very sort of tightly interlocked, um, society in which everybody

[00:41:37] is very dependent on everybody else.

[00:41:39] And so like we were talking about with the porters earlier on in the episode, I think

[00:41:45] a lot of people in the silo where they're born, you know, determines their job, their

[00:41:51] career prospects, who they are.

[00:41:53] So I think this is a society that's been deliberately structured to prevent people from asking questions

[00:42:01] from questioning their circumstances.

[00:42:03] I think it's a society that's deliberately constructed to be as utilitarian and as, um, yeah, to be

[00:42:16] as utilitarian as possible.

[00:42:17] And I think trying to contain knowledge as part of that, um, I also think there's probably

[00:42:26] a sense in which this knowledge led to whatever disaster required the silo to be built in

[00:42:34] the first place.

[00:42:36] And therefore, therefore it's both worth preserving, but it's also dangerous.

[00:42:41] And it was probably viewed as dangerous by the people who built the silo in the first place,

[00:42:47] because ultimately the silo would only exist if humanity has failed in some catastrophic way.

[00:42:57] Like nobody, nobody would choose to live the way the people in the silo do live.

[00:43:03] So it's some sort of massive failure of society, governance, economics, probably a failure of all

[00:43:12] of those things and more.

[00:43:14] So, you know, some total of human knowledge might be seen as quite a negative thing in the context

[00:43:21] of having to move your entire society underground.

[00:43:25] Right.

[00:43:26] Right.

[00:43:26] Yeah.

[00:43:27] Because we, we know they don't, that there's at least some elements of, um, hiding what it

[00:43:34] used to look like because that makes people sad and want to go outside.

[00:43:38] Yeah.

[00:43:39] Yeah.

[00:43:40] Okay.

[00:43:41] Well, on a much lighter topic, there was a lot of chatter in the discord about our names

[00:43:46] for, uh, Shirley and Knox, because I've been saying Sherlock's you've been saying Shroxy.

[00:43:52] So, uh, for Lisa throughout there, Shrox, Noli.

[00:43:58] Um, yeah, as to each, he says, I like the one that sounds like Sherlock.

[00:44:04] I hate couple names, but loved that one.

[00:44:06] And Sarah LCB says, Shrox gets my vote.

[00:44:09] Well, I'm sticking, I'm sticking with Shroxy, but each to their own.

[00:44:14] Each to their own.

[00:44:16] That's the one that they get to be free form.

[00:44:18] Yeah, exactly.

[00:44:20] Uh, Chumbaruni says the nerd in me really chuckled when Lucas did his mic drop explanation

[00:44:26] of how he figured out the code was for numbers and not letters and just threw his arms up

[00:44:30] like, yeah, I know I'm hot shit.

[00:44:32] Who wants to touch me?

[00:44:34] Really loving how that storyline is developing, especially with Sims and Camille now openly

[00:44:39] plotting against Bernard and Lucas all while the down deepers are starting to rile everyone

[00:44:44] up.

[00:44:44] Very exciting.

[00:44:45] And can't wait to see how the rest of the season plays out and loving the little sprinkles

[00:44:49] of lore here and there without having funky exposition.

[00:44:52] Yeah.

[00:44:53] Well put.

[00:44:54] Yeah.

[00:44:56] Aaron K says, this show is a masterclass on how to escalate a plot.

[00:44:59] Common and Tim Robbins had one of my favorite scenes in the series so far.

[00:45:04] Such good acting.

[00:45:05] I've also done a hundred, a 180 on Shernox, Shroxy.

[00:45:09] I can't remember what Luke called it.

[00:45:11] Yeah.

[00:45:11] Shroxy.

[00:45:11] I'm loving their dynamic now that I've had some time to sit with it.

[00:45:16] Um, and by the way, Aaron is watching right now for the first time studio Ghibli movies.

[00:45:22] So you can listen to those episodes on radioactive ramblings to see him experience the first wonder

[00:45:29] of that world.

[00:45:30] Um, Dan G by the way, uh, chimed in again.

[00:45:34] This is specifically about, yeah, we're talking about episode seven.

[00:45:37] This is specifically about the dive because Dan G is himself a diver with his wife.

[00:45:44] And he says, what a great episode as divers.

[00:45:47] My wife and I marveled at the underwater scene and really want to dive the set using our own gear.

[00:45:52] I'm glad they showed Juliet exhaling as she ascended, uh, since not doing so would have

[00:45:58] really taken me out of the show.

[00:46:00] Had she not exhaled, she would have died from lung, from a lung expansion injury.

[00:46:05] Few.

[00:46:06] There's two risks.

[00:46:08] First is a lung expansion injury, which she would have suffered had she not exhaled.

[00:46:13] Uh, the air in her lungs is expanding as she ascends boils law and her lungs would be injured

[00:46:18] from holding her breath to do so from 300 feet would be deadly.

[00:46:23] Second, there's the issue of the bends or decompression sickness DCS.

[00:46:27] What solo described was a good description.

[00:46:30] Although a diver can still get DCS, even if they ascend slowly.

[00:46:34] DCS comes from our bodies loading too much nitrogen and not pausing long enough upon ascent to

[00:46:40] allow the nitrogen to off gas.

[00:46:43] DCS can also occur, occur from the nitrogen turning into bubbles from ascending too quickly.

[00:46:49] In both cases, the nitrogen turns into bubbles in the diver's bloodstream.

[00:46:53] Even while ascending slowly, there might just be too much nitrogen in the diver's system when

[00:46:58] they surface in bubbles form.

[00:47:00] However, the fact that Juliet was breathing air pumps down to her from the surface, although

[00:47:05] the surface in the silo is still well below the earth's surface, would mean she's not

[00:47:09] breathing compressed air and perhaps at less risk of DCS.

[00:47:14] There's also the issue of O2 toxicity.

[00:47:18] Oxygen toxicity.

[00:47:20] At prolonged exposure to deeper deaths, O2 becomes toxic and can lead to convulsions.

[00:47:26] Again, the fact that Juliet is breathing air from the surface and not compressed air changes some

[00:47:31] things.

[00:47:31] I've posted on a scuba diver forum to see if anyone has theories.

[00:47:35] Fun to think about.

[00:47:36] I still want to dive the set.

[00:47:38] Loved the episode.

[00:47:39] And I hope it's clear I'm not bagging on the show or episode because the dive sequence is not

[00:47:42] scientifically accurate.

[00:47:43] It doesn't really matter too much to me, but it does make for fun discussion and general

[00:47:48] nerding out about diving and sci-fi.

[00:47:50] The fact they are pumping air from below the earth's surface might change some of the diving

[00:47:53] science.

[00:47:54] The way in which the silo is able to have clean breathing air is not clear and that

[00:47:59] might impact the air Juliet breathes on the dive and its impact on her body.

[00:48:04] I just don't know.

[00:48:06] And as was pointed out earlier, her surviving a dive that might kill anyone else might be

[00:48:11] a major plot point we get to look forward to.

[00:48:13] We'll pause there.

[00:48:15] And thoughts on the diving feedback?

[00:48:18] I don't really have anything to add on the diving because it's not my thing.

[00:48:24] But thank you for the real life explanation of how that works.

[00:48:30] I think the idea of them opening the set to people wanting to dive, it might be a nice

[00:48:36] money spinner for Apple.

[00:48:38] Get a little bit of extras content going.

[00:48:41] I think that's something we can recommend.

[00:48:44] But yeah, it might be a legal risk though.

[00:48:47] Save me.

[00:48:48] Yeah, maybe.

[00:48:49] But thanks for the insight.

[00:48:51] That was really interesting.

[00:48:52] Yeah.

[00:48:53] And Dan ends PS after listening to the episode five pod in the discussion about whether Walker

[00:48:58] would sacrifice Camille if it meant saving mechanical.

[00:49:01] It occurred to me that the silo story is several different iterations of the trial Charlie

[00:49:07] problem.

[00:49:07] Oh, I think he means sacrificing Carla if it meant saving mechanical.

[00:49:12] Yeah, because I think she would sacrifice Camille in a heartbeat.

[00:49:15] Yeah, she would sacrifice Camille in a heartbeat.

[00:49:19] Yeah, definitely Carla.

[00:49:21] It occurred to me the silo is several different iterations of the trolley problem.

[00:49:26] Different characters are deciding if the good of a particular group is more important than

[00:49:30] the good of an individual or small group.

[00:49:33] Even the evil and hated Bernard is doing the same.

[00:49:35] Yes, absolutely.

[00:49:36] Absolutely.

[00:49:39] The TCS asks, why not tell them the history and periodically test the outside air?

[00:49:46] Seems like rebellion is inevitable if you keep folks in the dark.

[00:49:50] Mechanical pun not intended.

[00:49:54] Yeah.

[00:49:55] I mean, so I also have this feeling that Bernard talks about Salvador Quinn saving the silo by

[00:50:06] making them forget.

[00:50:08] But then we also forget too much in our real worlds.

[00:50:13] It always shocks me how little people remember the problems that got us to the same problems

[00:50:18] over and over again.

[00:50:19] If we can learn from them, then we can move on.

[00:50:22] But it doesn't actually seem like humans are always successful in that.

[00:50:26] Maybe fits and starts?

[00:50:28] What do you think?

[00:50:29] Yeah.

[00:50:29] You know, the one that occurs to me recently is how COVID has done weird things to time.

[00:50:41] Because COVID feels a lot longer ago than it actually was.

[00:50:48] Does it?

[00:50:49] I don't know.

[00:50:53] It does to me anyway.

[00:50:57] Yeah.

[00:50:58] Because there were a couple of books I got bought over Christmas that were, you know,

[00:51:03] about sort of recent politics.

[00:51:05] Every time I get to the chapters that deal with COVID, it's like my brain goes, nope.

[00:51:10] I don't want to read that.

[00:51:13] I live through that.

[00:51:15] I don't.

[00:51:15] No, this isn't.

[00:51:17] Yeah.

[00:51:18] So I think like the human brain has like a great ability to block out the stuff it doesn't

[00:51:25] want to remember.

[00:51:26] Mm-hmm.

[00:51:27] No, that's for sure true.

[00:51:30] I think, yeah, for me in COVID, it feels so recent because I'm still dealing with the

[00:51:34] ramifications of it.

[00:51:36] So it's like, well, it can't have been that long ago if I'm still not like past this health

[00:51:41] thing or that, you know, career thing.

[00:51:43] Fair enough.

[00:51:45] But yeah, I guess it goes to show, yeah, the human mind is very subjective and you are

[00:51:49] absolutely right about blocking out the human mind being very excellent at blocking

[00:51:57] out traumatic things.

[00:51:58] And there's also, there's a really, I can't remember the title, but there's a really good

[00:52:03] book by a historian called Richard Neustadt that is like, I think it's called like Learning

[00:52:10] from History or something very similar to that.

[00:52:13] And Neustadt's argument is that too often what we do is draw historical parallels.

[00:52:22] So A is like B, you know, the Cuban Missile Crisis is like the Munich Crisis.

[00:52:29] And Neustadt's argument is that that is a terrible way to draw lessons from history because

[00:52:34] the context of events is always different.

[00:52:38] The players are always different.

[00:52:40] The ideas that are motivating people are always different.

[00:52:44] The way you successfully learn from history, Neustadt argues, is to know the history of particular

[00:52:52] issues.

[00:52:53] So he makes the, one of the case studies he uses, for example, is why the Reagan administration

[00:53:01] in the eighties was able to reform social security when the Nixon administration in the seventies had

[00:53:09] failed to do the exact same thing.

[00:53:11] And he argues that the reason for it is that the people working in the Reagan administration

[00:53:15] were to a large extent, the same people that had done, that had tried to do the reform under

[00:53:22] Nixon.

[00:53:22] And they remembered what worked and what hadn't and how you dealt with Congress and what didn't.

[00:53:28] So it's not about comparing one historical incident with another.

[00:53:33] Right.

[00:53:34] It's about learning from them.

[00:53:36] Yeah.

[00:53:36] It's about knowing the history of the particular topic or the particular issue that you are

[00:53:43] dealing with.

[00:53:44] Right.

[00:53:45] Right.

[00:53:46] I think it's, I think it's called learning from history.

[00:53:48] The guy's name is spelled N-E-U-S-T-A-D-T.

[00:53:55] Okay.

[00:53:56] Neustadt.

[00:53:56] Okay.

[00:53:57] So I'd never remember books by title.

[00:54:00] I always remember them by author, which is terrible.

[00:54:05] I'm sure the authors are honored.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:07] Which is terrible when you're trying to write footnotes.

[00:54:10] Yeah.

[00:54:10] That's actually, that's not like that uncommon of a last name either.

[00:54:14] It just means new city in German.

[00:54:17] Okay.

[00:54:18] So Ashley S says, if it's a controlled experiment, then you don't want your subject to have

[00:54:25] autonomy.

[00:54:25] If it's not an experiment and it really is all about the survival slash extinction, then

[00:54:31] whomever is in power must think keeping people uninformed on life before must be critical

[00:54:37] to everyone's survival.

[00:54:39] And yeah, I mean, I guess this is, we've, we've, uh, I asked you about this before when

[00:54:44] talking about why hold back the legacy.

[00:54:47] Um, but I think Ashley, you nailed it basically.

[00:54:51] Yes.

[00:54:52] Um, I don't think we can say it's not an experiment, but I think.

[00:54:57] No, she said if, if, or if, yeah.

[00:55:01] Yeah.

[00:55:01] Two possibilities.

[00:55:04] I'm not sure.

[00:55:05] I've gone off that.

[00:55:06] I've gone, I, I went on that theory.

[00:55:08] Then I kept, then I came off it.

[00:55:10] Then I went on it again and now I'm sort of off it again.

[00:55:13] Okay.

[00:55:14] Okay.

[00:55:15] Yeah.

[00:55:15] Uh, Tina says maybe the science and the dive scene is technically accurate.

[00:55:21] Not even sure about that.

[00:55:22] Well, we just heard from Dan about that, but as a diver myself, the scene looked very wrong

[00:55:27] to me.

[00:55:27] If you take into account all her circumstances, a few days ago, Julia couldn't even swim.

[00:55:32] Now she's doing what looks like 300 feet dives without proper gear, a self made air pump and

[00:55:38] having to do some actual physical work on the ground.

[00:55:40] I remember a simple thing like finding properly fitting diving goggles took me ages.

[00:55:45] And if that doesn't fit, you won't be able to see anything because all you do is fight

[00:55:49] against the water coming into your goggles.

[00:55:51] That emergency ascent man that made me nervous.

[00:55:55] Unlike others, I couldn't see her constantly breathing out bubbles, but maybe I didn't look

[00:55:59] closely enough.

[00:56:01] Having said that it looks cool.

[00:56:02] And the rest of the episode was very good, but for my part, I don't need to see another

[00:56:05] scene of Juliet MacGyvering her way through Silo 17.

[00:56:08] We know she can build anything.

[00:56:09] Smiley.

[00:56:12] Yeah.

[00:56:12] I'm like, I'm not going to get into the diving, but I am definitely with you on the MacGyvering.

[00:56:17] This is starting to, this is starting to wear, this is starting to wear a little thin.

[00:56:20] Although I think I, by the time we get to the end of episode eight, I think by the time

[00:56:25] we get to the end of episode eight, the story has moved along.

[00:56:29] But yeah, I was, now we got an actual like fight with kids, but yeah, but I'm, I'm with

[00:56:35] you there.

[00:56:35] I was getting it.

[00:56:36] I was getting a little bit tired of the cotton.

[00:56:38] Yeah.

[00:56:40] So one thing that I think that they maybe shouldn't have done is the adding that whole

[00:56:45] thing about Juliet being afraid of the water.

[00:56:47] Like, cause they made it kind of a thing that was brought up several times.

[00:56:50] And I thought like, Oh wow, that's going to be really interesting when we get to the diving

[00:56:54] part.

[00:56:54] But then it wasn't, it was kind of like forgotten.

[00:56:58] Like Martha's horror phobia.

[00:57:00] So then it's like, well, it's better to just not bring it up and just have her be, have,

[00:57:04] feel normally wary of the water for someone who grew up in a silo.

[00:57:08] Yeah.

[00:57:09] And like, it's, you say that, uh, you know, it's been pointed out correctly that Juliet can't

[00:57:16] swim, but actually could anybody in the, like that wouldn't be a skill you acquired in the

[00:57:21] No, no, no.

[00:57:22] Nobody would be able to swim.

[00:57:23] Right.

[00:57:23] Cause where would they learn?

[00:57:24] Where would they practice?

[00:57:25] Where would they learn?

[00:57:26] Yeah.

[00:57:28] Unless the people are swimming around that digger.

[00:57:30] Oh man.

[00:57:31] No.

[00:57:31] Oh no, no, no.

[00:57:34] Um, Barb's 2795 says, I'm guessing the reason solo went ballistic about, or maybe it's 2795.

[00:57:44] Anyway, I'm guessing the reason solo went ballistic about Juliet challenging him being

[00:57:47] solo is the vault computer is voice and identity specific.

[00:57:51] And so is programmed to the, to respond to him as solo, but not anyone else.

[00:57:56] That's what I took from the scene, introducing Lucas to the computer and 18s vault.

[00:58:02] I personally think he's Russell's son and they both hid in there during the rebellion.

[00:58:07] Yeah.

[00:58:07] So the thing about the computer recognition, I didn't think about that angle, but I think

[00:58:11] that's, that's a good point.

[00:58:13] Yeah, no, that does.

[00:58:14] I hadn't thought of that at all, but that's a really interesting point.

[00:58:18] Yeah.

[00:58:18] And yeah, if a thing, if a, if the only thing you are speaking to keeps telling you, you

[00:58:24] are solo.

[00:58:25] Right.

[00:58:25] Like at some, at some point, even if you know you aren't, you're going to start to think

[00:58:30] who you are.

[00:58:32] I wonder if yeah.

[00:58:34] Solo has been speaking to the computer the whole time or something.

[00:58:38] Yeah.

[00:58:39] I wonder if that also, I just keep thinking about him saying, uh, about not being real.

[00:58:46] If maybe the computer was another voice that was not real or something to him.

[00:58:50] Yeah, no, that, that's that, that, that is an incredibly good point.

[00:58:54] You get a gold star for that.

[00:58:55] Definitely.

[00:58:56] Well, I'm going to pass it on to Barb's for that excellent point about, uh, the voice

[00:59:00] recognition and the computer.

[00:59:02] Yeah.

[00:59:03] Um, so Rosa G West, uh, is trying to match characters with their biggest relation, relationship

[00:59:09] identification and says Knox and Shirley are their quote unquote class mechanical slash anyone

[00:59:15] in the silo willing to be part of their group.

[00:59:18] Um, Bernard is, so I guess this is what they are most care about.

[00:59:26] So Knox and Shirley care about their in-group.

[00:59:28] Bernard cares about the greater good as he has been taught slash internalized.

[00:59:33] So yeah, that just Bernard's greater good isn't necessarily everyone's greater good.

[00:59:37] What do you think about those first two?

[00:59:39] Yeah, I think that's, I think that's right.

[00:59:41] Yeah.

[00:59:43] Lucas knowledge, uh, what we see about him and yeah, that I think, so I've often talked

[00:59:49] about Lucas being my favorite character and this is basically why, because he just shares

[00:59:53] my endless curiosity and thirst to know everything.

[00:59:57] Yeah.

[00:59:58] I'm, I'm, yeah, I'm with, I'm with you on that.

[01:00:01] Like, yeah, I, I, I, I see a lot of my, I, I'd like to think I see a lot of myself in

[01:00:07] Lucas.

[01:00:09] In Lucas.

[01:00:10] And Billings is most invested in the law slash the pact as he understands it.

[01:00:16] Sims and his nuclear family unit Walker question mark, possibly her ex-wife and redeeming whatever

[01:00:23] caused her to leave the down deep.

[01:00:25] What do you think?

[01:00:26] Especially given this was written before episode eight.

[01:00:29] So especially given this episode, what do you think Walker cares about most?

[01:00:33] Is it Carla or?

[01:00:34] Yeah.

[01:00:36] Yeah.

[01:00:36] Yeah.

[01:00:37] Um, I mean the only, the only person that might come close is Juliet.

[01:00:41] Mm hmm.

[01:00:42] Yeah.

[01:00:42] And she's not there.

[01:00:44] Yeah.

[01:00:44] And I think it's like, it's telling that she isn't there.

[01:00:47] Yeah.

[01:00:49] And, uh, Juliet's most driven by her guilt and the actions needed to fix it.

[01:00:55] This is a leap.

[01:00:55] I know right now it is saving her world.

[01:00:57] Uh, I know.

[01:00:58] I think that that's a fair leap to make.

[01:01:00] Yeah.

[01:01:01] No, I think that's a fair leap to make.

[01:01:03] Yeah.

[01:01:04] Um, and solo the, to the mission he was told he has slash survival.

[01:01:10] Yeah.

[01:01:10] I mean, I think that's basically what we've seen from him.

[01:01:14] Yeah.

[01:01:15] Yeah.

[01:01:17] Okay.

[01:01:17] And to, uh, and our episode seven discussion, we have the blue sky feedback that Luke, you

[01:01:23] spotted as we were recording.

[01:01:25] So good eye on that.

[01:01:26] Thank you for that.

[01:01:28] Um, Liam Venerholm at mini Vennie says, I have a silo question for Alicia and Luke in episode

[01:01:36] seven.

[01:01:36] When mechanical turns off the power, how did they know that it's power would still be on?

[01:01:42] The notes seem to suggest that they knew.

[01:01:45] Um, yeah.

[01:01:47] What do you think the answer to this is how did they know mechanicals power would still be

[01:01:52] on?

[01:01:52] Um, I mean, do mechanical, do mechanical have like access to the schematics of the silo?

[01:02:02] Then they may need that to be able to do their job.

[01:02:05] Um, so they may have been at, yeah, they may have been able to see the same thing.

[01:02:11] It seems like they would hide that.

[01:02:14] But, but if there is a separate power line to it, somebody's got to maintain it.

[01:02:20] Like somebody, I don't know.

[01:02:22] Maybe it's Bernard's job.

[01:02:23] Yeah.

[01:02:24] Somebody needs to know that it's there.

[01:02:26] I don't know.

[01:02:27] I mean, but that goes back to the question.

[01:02:28] So like who's maintaining all the computers if they're not allowed to make microprocessors?

[01:02:33] Yeah, it's true.

[01:02:35] It's true.

[01:02:37] Yeah, I, that's, that's an excellent question.

[01:02:39] How did they know?

[01:02:40] Because it's not, I mean, I guess unless George somehow shared down there, what was found on

[01:02:47] the hard drive, like shared with Martha or something.

[01:02:50] Hmm.

[01:02:53] Hmm.

[01:02:54] Yeah, it is a, this is an excellent question.

[01:02:57] So also in episode four, how did no one notice it's power when they shut down the power then,

[01:03:04] uh, with the balls and yeah, I guess it was ready for that.

[01:03:08] And they also shut down their power at the same time.

[01:03:10] Cause we saw in this episode, Bernard running inside to flick switch.

[01:03:13] Shut it down before they see it.

[01:03:17] I'm just saying in the book, there is a similar scene where like, uh, the power mechanical turns

[01:03:23] out the power in the silo and, um, it's light stays on, but they did not know in that instance,

[01:03:29] the it's light would stay on because they were just as surprised as everyone else.

[01:03:32] So they switched it up a little bit for the show.

[01:03:37] No.

[01:03:39] All right.

[01:03:40] Let's take a quick pause here.

[01:03:42] When we get back, we're going to talk through episode eight feedback and then feedback from

[01:03:45] our Christmas special.

[01:03:47] See you on the other side.

[01:03:48] Just a sec.

[01:03:52] Luke, I have to say that episode eight's like got some of the most eyebrow raised feedback

[01:04:00] where I think episode eight is not going to be people's favorite episode of this season.

[01:04:05] Are you surprised?

[01:04:07] Um, I am a little bit.

[01:04:10] There was nothing in episode eight that I was like, um, yeah, that I, that I felt like this

[01:04:16] was a weak episode.

[01:04:18] I think Zatoichi's, uh, comments kind of summarizes where the major quibble is.

[01:04:25] And Zatoichi says overall great setup episode for the climax, but the scenes with Walker just

[01:04:30] felt off or something.

[01:04:32] And there was a lot of consensus with that point on the discord.

[01:04:37] Okay.

[01:04:39] Doof71 says, I agree on the, a bit off about Walker.

[01:04:42] Again, I'm seeing the hand of the writers and it's taking me out a little bit.

[01:04:47] They've portrayed Walker as a natural rebel locked within the walls of her workshop.

[01:04:52] Then along comes her ex-wife who we assume she hasn't had any contact with for 20 plus

[01:04:56] years and she's out and about and willing to sell mechanical out.

[01:05:00] I'm not sure they've sold it on.

[01:05:02] They've sold it to me.

[01:05:04] Uh, each episode so far has built on the tension, advanced the story in both silos, but this one

[01:05:09] just seemed to bleed all that buildup out.

[01:05:12] I enjoyed it, but my overarching reaction was it's fine, which for this show is harsh criticism.

[01:05:19] And Abby agreed.

[01:05:20] Indeed, we get to use superlatives and it's fine.

[01:05:23] It's not one of them.

[01:05:24] There are, we get, we got used to superlatives and it's fine.

[01:05:28] It's not one of them.

[01:05:29] There are two more episodes and two more seasons.

[01:05:31] So maybe we shouldn't be too harsh.

[01:05:33] What do you think?

[01:05:34] Um, like I do agree.

[01:05:36] We, you know, we've talked at length about how we felt about the way they treated Walker

[01:05:41] and, you know, the way that her, her agoraphobia, um, agoraphobia, um, has been treated.

[01:05:52] Um, I don't have a problem with, I don't have a problem with Carla and the fact that they haven't

[01:06:00] seen each other or they haven't really interacted for 20 years because, you know, people can

[01:06:07] still, you know, people can still very, feel very intensely attached, um, to one another

[01:06:14] after, even after all that time.

[01:06:16] And I think what sells that for me is Harriet, is Harriet Walter's performance.

[01:06:21] Like I never had any, like, I understand, I understand the point that people are making,

[01:06:26] but I think Harriet Walter really does sell, um, the depth of Walker's affection, um, for

[01:06:33] Carla.

[01:06:35] Um, so no, that, that, I've got to be honest, that, that, that hasn't taken me out.

[01:06:41] That hasn't taken me out of the story.

[01:06:43] I do agree with the point about the, uh, the agoraphobia, but no, I don't agree with

[01:06:48] the point about the relationship with Carla.

[01:06:50] Yeah.

[01:06:52] Okay.

[01:06:52] Um, the TCS says, I agree with all the comments about Walker, the writer's lack of getting

[01:06:58] me that deep emotional bond with her and Carla.

[01:07:00] Although in previous episodes, I really could see the love and the ease with which Walker

[01:07:05] caved.

[01:07:05] What got me to the selling point was imagining who in my life I would allow someone to torture

[01:07:11] because of me.

[01:07:12] That's a hard one.

[01:07:13] And now that she's seen her, it's going to be even harder.

[01:07:16] Yeah.

[01:07:16] I think that's a good point.

[01:07:17] Like even the, her intense affection for her ex wife aside, um, just anyone just imagining

[01:07:25] that anyone's going to be tortured because of your actions is a very strong motivator.

[01:07:29] Yeah.

[01:07:30] I think, I think that's right.

[01:07:31] Yeah.

[01:07:32] Uh, I hope we get their backstory.

[01:07:34] Having it prior to this would have helped, but late is better than never.

[01:07:38] I think that will need to be really good just to get me to the point of understanding Walker

[01:07:43] walking into what she knew, or at least on some level had to be a trap.

[01:07:47] Hmm.

[01:07:48] Yeah.

[01:07:49] I, yeah, I hope, I wonder if like why they're, if they're keeping the backstory because like,

[01:07:54] that's also like 25 years, like the whole judge Meadows thing.

[01:07:58] So could there be some 25 years ago flashback coming?

[01:08:02] That's going to explain why everything went tits up that year.

[01:08:08] Um, I mean, maybe I've got to say like, I don't, I don't feel any strong need to have

[01:08:15] that backstory.

[01:08:16] Um, I'm quite happy to, I'm quite happy to, to believe that, that, that, you know, I,

[01:08:25] I would, I wouldn't be opposed to knowing why Carla and Walker's marriage failed, but

[01:08:33] I don't, I don't need that to, to be sold on their, to be sold on their relationship.

[01:08:40] Yeah.

[01:08:41] Hmm.

[01:08:41] Yeah.

[01:08:42] I guess I'm with you.

[01:08:43] Um, I just be just mostly because I think now I'm like, Oh, we only have two episodes

[01:08:48] left.

[01:08:49] What are you going to, how much are you going to pack in there?

[01:08:51] Cause there's stuff I'm waiting to happen.

[01:08:54] Uh, so, uh, Paul Kent writes, I don't like being too critical.

[01:08:59] The actors are brilliant.

[01:09:00] I'd have them all in a movie version.

[01:09:03] Books must be hard to adapt because it's a collection of short stories with many timelines

[01:09:07] and character arcs.

[01:09:08] But I feel the TV show has too much focus on props or deciphering riddles and has sacrificed

[01:09:13] characters.

[01:09:14] We get glimpses of the emotional dynamics through great acting, but not enough.

[01:09:20] Um, what do you think?

[01:09:22] Hmm.

[01:09:24] I think about that.

[01:09:25] I think there's, there's a, there's a distinction to be made this season between silo 17 and

[01:09:31] silo 18.

[01:09:33] Mm hmm.

[01:09:34] Silo 17.

[01:09:36] Yeah.

[01:09:36] I think the, the, the, the, the constant MacGyvering got a little bit old.

[01:09:41] Um, and I'd, I'd like to have seen just more, more conversation between solo and, and Juliet.

[01:09:49] And also it just seemed like one bad thing after another was happening to Juliet in a

[01:09:55] very, very condensed space of time.

[01:09:58] Um, so for silo 17, I'm kind of with you there, Paul, but for silo 18, no, I don't think so.

[01:10:07] Um, I think there's a, there's enough else going on.

[01:10:12] I'm like, I, I don't have to know every character's backstory.

[01:10:17] I don't have to know every character's backstory.

[01:10:21] Well, so Paul does actually agree with you.

[01:10:23] Paul adds, by the way, I love effects and visual candy except wool as a book is really

[01:10:28] about people and says TV season two struggles to balance the action between silo 17 and

[01:10:34] 18.

[01:10:34] It's like watching two different shows except the events in silo 17 are far less interesting

[01:10:40] than silo 18.

[01:10:42] Maybe they should have made more changes to the books to improve the onscreen theater.

[01:10:47] Got Lucas shadowing sooner by mid season than to enable him to, uh, um, yeah.

[01:10:57] So I, I, yeah, maybe I think that, um, I do feel, I guess Paul's point in that they were,

[01:11:04] you know, I think that they were treading water a little bit with the silo 17 stuff.

[01:11:08] And they, I do think they actually do literally unfigured, but they do, there is a lot of MacGyvering

[01:11:16] in that version of the books, but it feels different somehow.

[01:11:19] And I think maybe some of it has to do with the limitations of the set.

[01:11:23] Whereas the book, you literally have an entire silo to work through on a set.

[01:11:28] You have to think about the practicalities of you have this much space and anytime you

[01:11:33] pretend it's different floors and stuff, you have to completely redress it.

[01:11:36] And, you know, yeah.

[01:11:38] Yeah.

[01:11:39] So I think that the practical limitations of the set, they did pair back a lot of the

[01:11:43] MacGyvering and the action, but it just feels different in the show.

[01:11:47] I think that's probably why.

[01:11:48] Yeah.

[01:11:49] Uh, Paul says, I feel starved of progress.

[01:11:51] I'm not as invested in the characters as I should be, at least not as compelled as I

[01:11:56] was by Howie's incredible novel.

[01:11:58] Apple might have a limitless budget for stunts and effects, but it's made the storytelling weaker.

[01:12:03] Ooh, but what do I know?

[01:12:05] It's still a great show.

[01:12:06] Paul, PS, favorite show characters, R slash were Meadows, Knox and Billings.

[01:12:12] Uh, PPS.

[01:12:13] I forgot to add that there's a lot of great action in the books.

[01:12:15] Don't want to diss anybody because it's a difficult, difficult story to adapt.

[01:12:19] Final thoughts, Luke?

[01:12:21] Um, I, I, I love the R slash were.

[01:12:25] Yeah.

[01:12:26] For four characters.

[01:12:28] Yeah.

[01:12:28] That, that, that says a lot about the show.

[01:12:30] Pour out some, for four times whiskey for Meadows.

[01:12:34] Yeah.

[01:12:34] You have to put an R slash were when you're talking about your characters.

[01:12:40] Oh, all right.

[01:12:42] Uh, Chumburuni says, Bernard's fucking face.

[01:12:45] When he says, you'll be reunited with your love had me fucking dying.

[01:12:48] He might as well have looked at the camera and said out loud.

[01:12:51] It's because I'm going to kill you both.

[01:12:54] Yeah.

[01:12:54] I think, I think you're right.

[01:12:57] And, uh, the TCS said that.

[01:12:59] And he agreed walk could see Carla and that's all she got nasty.

[01:13:04] I'm not sure it's a Sims Nard end of the scale anymore.

[01:13:07] It's all, he's all alone now on the end.

[01:13:12] Yeah.

[01:13:13] Like I said, I think we're going to keep Sims Nard, but only out of tradition.

[01:13:17] Only out of.

[01:13:18] But we know.

[01:13:19] Bernard's fallen off the scale.

[01:13:21] Bernard is definitely off, off the end by himself.

[01:13:24] Yeah.

[01:13:25] Um, and the TCS says, I texted my sister immediately when Lucas got a change of clothes.

[01:13:36] It's a small thing, but it's driving me absolutely up the wall.

[01:13:42] You can almost see that.

[01:13:44] Cause like I was, I was talking to you.

[01:13:46] Like pig pen, you know?

[01:13:47] Yeah.

[01:13:48] I was talking to you, the, your co-host Abby.

[01:13:50] And the only explanation I could come up with was that Lucas was deliberately not showering,

[01:13:55] um, to stop Bernard standing too close to him.

[01:14:00] I mean, valid.

[01:14:01] David Meadows tried that one.

[01:14:03] And Abby replied, Abby replied, I love this theory.

[01:14:06] Not showering as Bernie repellent.

[01:14:10] Bernard's so fastidious that I bet that would be a thing too.

[01:14:14] Yeah.

[01:14:15] I bet Bernard was the one who was like, Lucas, I know lots of books.

[01:14:18] I get it.

[01:14:19] Take a shower.

[01:14:20] Take a shower.

[01:14:21] Get a change of clothes.

[01:14:23] Yeah.

[01:14:24] Hmm.

[01:14:26] Yeah.

[01:14:26] So for Lisa says about episode eight, lots of setup.

[01:14:29] I was hoping more from Lucas deciphering the code, pretty much an average episode for me.

[01:14:34] I know someone called walk and her turn on the discord.

[01:14:38] Actually, no, that was Luke on, uh, the pod for episode seven.

[01:14:42] Um, more MacGyvering by Juliet.

[01:14:44] Hopefully next episode we'll build on the setup.

[01:14:47] And yeah, I think that's, that's a common sentiment.

[01:14:48] And you said similar that this is, I think this is why people are more meh on this episode

[01:14:53] because it feels like it's putting things into place for the last two episodes.

[01:14:58] And it's not just, it's not just the MacGyvering as well.

[01:15:02] It feels like the, it feels like the only point of Juliet's character this season is to suffer.

[01:15:07] Like she just goes through, she just goes through one, she just goes through one agony only to fall into another.

[01:15:14] It's like, I just need something good to happen to Juliet.

[01:15:18] Yeah.

[01:15:19] Yeah.

[01:15:20] Hmm.

[01:15:21] Um, Maureen says about what Sims said to Lucas.

[01:15:26] Somehow I think Lucas could beat Bernard at chess.

[01:15:29] So we'll see who is more steps ahead.

[01:15:31] And yeah, as I said, uh, during the main episode, I completely agree with that.

[01:15:36] I think that Sims cannot even conceive of anyone being ahead of Bernard.

[01:15:43] Uh, Rocky Zim, uh, says, and this is our last silo piece of feedback.

[01:15:48] I'm thinking Bernard is going to have a rough time going forward.

[01:15:52] He's getting cocky and manipulating too many people.

[01:15:55] Something is going to backfire.

[01:15:56] I think maybe Bernard does something to Camille and this, and then Sims finally gives Bernard what he deserves.

[01:16:03] I enjoyed Juliet's part in this episode.

[01:16:06] I kept thinking of 300 and how you have to hold the shield thigh to neck, LOL.

[01:16:12] And yeah, I think there's not been enough commentary about, I really liked the whole, um, because there is a similar thing in the books about her kind of not realizing she's fighting kids and then being like, oh wait, crap, it's kids.

[01:16:27] You know, even though they're a little older here.

[01:16:30] Yeah.

[01:16:31] Hmm.

[01:16:32] And yeah, two more episodes to go.

[01:16:34] Oh, so how are you feeling Luke after hearing from everyone else about these, uh, last year?

[01:16:39] I'm going to say, I'm going to say people had a much stronger reaction, um, to episode eight than, than I did.

[01:16:47] Um, that's, that took me back a little bit.

[01:16:50] Um, I, I can see where people are coming from with, uh, Walker's sort of heel turn, but it, it, no, it felt natural to me.

[01:17:02] Yeah.

[01:17:04] Yeah.

[01:17:04] Yeah.

[01:17:05] I mean, I think, you know, it took me back at first too, because like when you called it last episode, I said that, you know, I didn't want that to happen.

[01:17:13] Um, but when, you know, I got into breaking down the episode and discussing it with you and now discussing more of it here, I can see where it's coming from.

[01:17:23] Um, you know, this, this fear for her loved ones, including Carla, but also the rest who she thinks are doing stupid things and also feeling like rejected, like they're not helping her with what she really needs after everything she's ever done for them.

[01:17:39] And then, yeah, just Bernard's manipulations and her desperation to be doing anything to help Carla, who she thinks it's her fault that Carla is in this position.

[01:17:50] No.

[01:17:51] Uh, anything you want to add about silo before we shift gears?

[01:17:55] No.

[01:17:55] Um, I, you've squeezed all the juice out of this particular lemon.

[01:17:58] Um, all right.

[01:18:00] Well, then what's that I hear?

[01:18:04] Oh, is it back to Christmas time?

[01:18:08] The holidays haven't ended on the holidays have not ended and we'll shift us.

[01:18:14] We're going to be talking through, uh, this is the special feedback section where we are focusing on a Christmas Carol and Dickens, and we will not have any, uh, any silo spoilers in this section.

[01:18:27] Okay.

[01:18:29] Okay.

[01:18:29] So our first piece of feedback is actually a voicemail.

[01:18:33] Yay.

[01:18:34] So Maureen Dillon, she's read the book, The Man Who Invented Christmas, and she likes the movie better.

[01:18:41] So I asked her why she likes the movie better.

[01:18:44] And she shared these thoughts along with some general thoughts about A Christmas Carol.

[01:18:51] Hi, this is Maureen D.

[01:18:53] And I just finished listening to the podcast and you asked for more information about why I said,

[01:18:59] I like the film adaptation of The Man Who Invented Christmas more than the book.

[01:19:04] First of all, I want to make sure that, you know, I'm comparing that film with the book by the same name, which was written by Les Standifort, not with Dickens' A Christmas Carol.

[01:19:18] A Christmas Carol is one of my favorite pieces of literature.

[01:19:22] And I read it every year.

[01:19:24] Although, um, I love many of the film adaptations.

[01:19:29] I will say that most of them don't capture the wit and humor of Dickens' writing.

[01:19:34] So I recommend that everybody read the original.

[01:19:38] But, um, I particularly love this film, which, uh, The Man Who Invented Christmas, which is not really an adaptation, but more of a creative, uh, creatively inspired by the Dickens story.

[01:19:54] Um, and so I picked up the Standifort book.

[01:19:59] And I was really surprised because it's not at all like the film.

[01:20:03] It's really just a straight biography that just focuses on this time period of while Dickens was writing the book.

[01:20:11] So I was kind of disappointed because what I really love about the film adaptation, which was written by Susan Coyne, is how the Dickens characters just spring to life and how she imagines Dickens walking through his day-to-day life and being inspired, uh, to create certain characters and write certain lines.

[01:20:35] So if you know the novella really well, you'll, you'll see, oh, he'll, he'll pick out this line or someone says something in a certain way.

[01:20:42] And, uh, it's just really fun.

[01:20:45] And, and while she's doing it, she throws back the curtain and takes us backstage and gives us a peek into what it might be like to be a writer who has all of these characters in his head, you know, walking around, having conversations with them as if they were real.

[01:21:04] I think it's a really great insight into the creative writing process.

[01:21:11] And even though this particular film is in itself fiction, you know, it's not straight biography.

[01:21:21] Um, so we know that a lot of this didn't really happen.

[01:21:24] Um, it's just fun.

[01:21:26] She imagines how, you know, everything in Dickens's life might have inspired him and mirrored the story.

[01:21:36] Um, and yes, there are a lot of tropes like the Irish maid, but they don't really bother me because I really love that scene where, um, Tara is telling the children ghost stories.

[01:21:48] And, you know, they kind of use candles and lighting to sort of bring us into the mood.

[01:21:55] But I, I do agree that, you know, the suggestion that Dickens didn't know about, you know, Christmas and the connection to ghost stories is, uh, a stretch.

[01:22:05] So, uh, they might've kind of worded that differently.

[01:22:09] Um, but I do really love that actress, um, Anna Murphy who plays Tara.

[01:22:15] And then suddenly she's also the ghost of Christmas past and such a great transition.

[01:22:21] I missed that actually.

[01:22:23] I, I actually hadn't realized that the script was written by Susan Coyne, but I should have recognized her work because I'm a huge fan of the television series Slings and Arrows.

[01:22:35] And there are a lot of similarities between that series and the film.

[01:22:41] Again, we have this trope, which is of the creative genius who's kind of borderline quote unquote mad.

[01:22:48] And in Slings, the artist is a creative director, whereas in The Man Who Created, Invented Christmas, it's the author Dickens, obviously.

[01:22:58] But in both cases, the artist is more or less haunted while creating their work and they start to lose that boundary between art and life.

[01:23:09] In Slings, the director is played by Paul Gross and he's just, you know, really great, you know, really kind of out there.

[01:23:17] And he's being haunted by his former mentor, uh, who's played by Stephen Wemet during a production of Hamlet.

[01:23:25] So you kind of have this obvious parallel going on between Hamlet's ghost and this director.

[01:23:32] And in The Man Who Invented Christmas, Dan Stevens plays Dickens.

[01:23:38] And I mean, if you saw him in Legion, you know how, how he can just skate that really thin line between.

[01:23:45] He's brilliant in Legion.

[01:23:46] Between sane and not sane.

[01:23:50] In Slings, it's a little small theater house.

[01:23:54] So you kind of feel like you have an insight into what it might be like to work in a small regional theater.

[01:24:01] And they produce Shakespeare plays.

[01:24:04] So in a similar way, you have a favorite piece of literature.

[01:24:09] Um, and you, so you get to kind of revisit that.

[01:24:12] And then there's this parallel going on in real life with the actors.

[01:24:16] So they're doing a production of Romeo and Juliet.

[01:24:19] And then the actors playing Romeo and Juliet strike up a romance, that sort of thing.

[01:24:25] So there's always this, there's multiple layers of the theme going on.

[01:24:29] Um, highly recommended if you can get your hands on, uh, watching this.

[01:24:34] I binge it all the time.

[01:24:35] It ran from, uh, 2003 to 2006.

[01:24:39] And, um, there's some guest appearances by up and coming actors like, uh, Rachel McAdams and Sarah Polly.

[01:24:46] You know, it was all up in Canada.

[01:24:49] But, uh, I admit I am a sucker for stories in which the fictional characters come to life and then interact with the author.

[01:24:59] Uh, I also love Miss Potter and in that you see like Beatrix Potter creating a watercolor and then Peter Rabbit literally pops out of the page and interacts with her.

[01:25:12] So I, I just love that.

[01:25:13] So in any case, uh, thank you for all of your coverage and I guess I will see you online.

[01:25:22] Thank you, Maureen.

[01:25:23] That was excellent insight into, I can't believe you happen to have both read The Man Who Invented Christmas and seen The Slings and Arrow show.

[01:25:32] Uh, so that was really interesting comparisons, uh, to see the difference between them.

[01:25:37] And yeah, I completely get your point about the film because I, when we were talking about it, I did say my favorite part was indeed, you know, that the characters coming to life part.

[01:25:48] And, um, yeah, I see exactly.

[01:25:50] And you, you rather liked it, Luke.

[01:25:52] You liked it even more than me.

[01:25:53] Yeah, I did.

[01:25:53] Yeah, I did.

[01:25:53] I was medium and you were warm.

[01:25:55] Yeah.

[01:25:55] And thanks for that, Maureen.

[01:25:57] That was very, very thorough feedback.

[01:25:59] And I want to go inside.

[01:26:01] I'm going to go, uh, after this is done, I'm going to see if I can find Slings and Arrows.

[01:26:05] Yeah, that sounds great.

[01:26:07] Yeah.

[01:26:07] And really worth watching.

[01:26:09] Yeah, it does.

[01:26:10] I'm so glad that you've seen that.

[01:26:11] Um, because I had, I'd never heard of it before and yeah, that sounds like something up my alley and definitely with parallels to a Christmas Carol.

[01:26:20] In addition to Hamlet.

[01:26:23] Uh, and, um, Maureen also said online, listening to your comparisons of adaptations and you really need to see the Jim Carrey Disney version.

[01:26:31] Um, Dutch tiles, ghost of Christmas past, et cetera.

[01:26:34] And yeah, it's definitely on the list for next year.

[01:26:36] I do keep hearing that it is perhaps the most faithful.

[01:26:40] Yep.

[01:26:41] Definitely on the list for next year.

[01:26:42] Yeah.

[01:26:43] And I also, on the Dickens front, I wanted to throw another thing out there that popped up.

[01:26:48] Uh, it was a funny coincidence that, so in the Dickens intermezzo episode, the one that, uh, Maureen's also responding to, um, I talked about Dickens meeting with Poe in the U S and discussing Ravens and whatnot.

[01:27:00] And I happen to, I've been listening to this new podcast called Poe evermore that blends Poe's life with his stories.

[01:27:09] And it so happens that the Christmas special was a fictionalized version, a dramatization of the meeting, the first meeting between Poe and Dickens.

[01:27:20] So I'll put a link in the show notes for anyone who's curious, not at all affiliated with us, but just funny.

[01:27:25] It's the same topic.

[01:27:26] And again, it does a similar thing that the man who invented Christmas does where, you know, they talk about this.

[01:27:32] And of course they do talk about Ravens at this meeting, but then also we see inspirations for a Christmas carol pop up at this pub in Philadelphia.

[01:27:40] So it's a fun little listen.

[01:27:43] All right.

[01:27:44] Uh, Peter O H says, Hey, Alicia.

[01:27:46] Hey, Luke.

[01:27:46] So excited to share my thoughts on Muppets Christmas Carol.

[01:27:50] This one's especially to you.

[01:27:51] Luke have loved it since I was a kid.

[01:27:54] My absolute favorite thing is the music.

[01:27:56] I basically know the soundtrack by heart.

[01:27:59] Next best thing is probably Michael Caine, the perfect foil for the Muppet cast.

[01:28:04] I do really enjoy the Muppets in this movie, but I haven't seen any of the other Muppet movies, to be honest.

[01:28:09] Oh, wow.

[01:28:10] Nor do I plan to unless the Michael Caine, um, unless Michael Caine is in that movie too, obviously.

[01:28:17] LOL.

[01:28:18] What do you think of that take?

[01:28:21] Um, Peter, I would say you don't, you certainly don't need to watch all the Muppets films because they are a very variable, um, quality.

[01:28:30] But I would definitely say if you enjoy a Muppets Christmas Carol, go and watch Muppets Treasure Island.

[01:28:37] Um, because Tim Curry does the exact opposite to Michael Caine.

[01:28:43] He plays, um, Long John Silver as though he were a human Muppet.

[01:28:49] Um, and it sounds terrible, but it, but it's great.

[01:28:53] I love Tim Curry.

[01:28:54] And it also has a very good performance by, uh, Billy Connolly as Blind Pew.

[01:29:01] Um, so if you enjoyed, um, Muppets Christmas Carol, go, uh, go and watch, um, Muppets Treasure Island.

[01:29:08] Also, I would say, um, you're probably going to enjoy Muppets in space as well.

[01:29:16] I've never seen either of those.

[01:29:17] Which is kind of, kind of a Star Wars pastiche.

[01:29:22] Um, it's a lot sillier and a lot looser than, um, Muppets Christmas Carol, but I enjoyed it.

[01:29:30] Um, like I say, outside of those two, I can take or leave the rest of the Muppets films.

[01:29:38] I did like, uh, I can't remember what the most recent one was, but the one with Jason Segel, um, was quite good.

[01:29:46] It had, it had its moments.

[01:29:49] Right.

[01:29:49] I didn't watch it one, but I know which one you mean.

[01:29:51] Yeah.

[01:29:52] Um, the music is not my favorite part of, um, Muppets Christmas Carol.

[01:30:00] I like the music well enough.

[01:30:02] Um, but I, I just, I just love the script.

[01:30:05] There are so many good, like I said in the episode, there are so many good jokes and it's the rare thing that I laughed at as a kid.

[01:30:12] And I still laugh at it as an adult.

[01:30:14] Um, and that's, you need really good writing for that to be true.

[01:30:20] Yeah.

[01:30:21] Yeah.

[01:30:21] Okay.

[01:30:22] Yeah.

[01:30:23] I'm glad it brings so many people joy.

[01:30:24] Um, so Peter continues.

[01:30:26] What I love about the story of a Christmas Carol is the hope that influential evil humans will realize the error of their ways and reform a lovely thought, especially in 2024 and 2025 for hope is never mere.

[01:30:40] However meager hashtag, uh, trying to stay positive.

[01:30:43] And yes, I see that, uh, Lord of the Rings reference.

[01:30:48] So I'm reading a book at the moment called Character Limit about, um, about Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter and its transition into X.

[01:30:59] And I'm, I'm, I'm reading that and I'm thinking never has an individual needed to be visited by three spirits.

[01:31:07] Yeah.

[01:31:08] Uh, more like if I'm doing, if I'm, if I am, if I am, if I am Scrooge inspirited, like I'm doing the background work on Ebony, on Elon Musk right now for, for next Christmas.

[01:31:21] It's right.

[01:31:22] Yeah.

[01:31:22] Ebony's at Musk, Elon Musk.

[01:31:24] Um, yeah.

[01:31:25] Cause by the way, it's totally off topic, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, um, it's a depressing book, but a very good, a very good one.

[01:31:35] Okay.

[01:31:36] Okay.

[01:31:37] Yeah.

[01:31:37] Well, book, uh, book rec noted.

[01:31:40] And, um, Peter concludes, thank you for the awesome silo coverage and your interest in a Christmas Carol.

[01:31:46] Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and happy new year to you both and to all the siloes out there.

[01:31:51] I feel like I should do the.

[01:31:56] There we go.

[01:31:57] One last time for the year.

[01:31:59] Um, okay.

[01:32:00] You know this song better.

[01:32:02] So what is it?

[01:32:03] There goes Mr.

[01:32:04] IT shadow.

[01:32:05] Mr.

[01:32:06] I forgot my pin.

[01:32:08] How does it go?

[01:32:10] There goes Mr.

[01:32:12] Humbug.

[01:32:12] There goes Mr.

[01:32:13] If they gave a prize for being alone, the winner would be him.

[01:32:19] All the best.

[01:32:20] Peter O.H.

[01:32:22] Thank you.

[01:32:22] Thank you, Peter.

[01:32:24] You've made my day.

[01:32:24] You've made my day with that.

[01:32:25] Thanks.

[01:32:28] Um, and Paul Kent says about the Christmas stuff.

[01:32:32] Love the audio drama.

[01:32:33] I prefer listening to Dickens than reading the text, which I find hard to follow due to the Victorian grammar.

[01:32:39] And I guess, yeah, I can see a lot of people feeling that way because of the long sentences and all.

[01:32:45] Yeah, the sentences are very, very long.

[01:32:48] And descriptive.

[01:32:49] Yeah.

[01:32:49] But I'm really glad you love the audio drama.

[01:32:51] That was fun to put together.

[01:32:53] Um, spends a couple hours listening to the Hugh Grant's audio book, which I recommend.

[01:32:57] And you said Hugh Grant's one's your favorite, right?

[01:33:00] Yes.

[01:33:01] Um, I know that there are, there are a load more out there that I haven't listened to.

[01:33:06] I did try listening to the Patrick Stewart one, but it's, but it's abridged.

[01:33:11] I mean.

[01:33:12] Oh yeah.

[01:33:12] We have a piece of feedback about that as well.

[01:33:14] Yeah.

[01:33:14] Yeah.

[01:33:14] I don't know why anybody would want to abridge a Christmas Carol, but, um, you know, for all the talent that Patrick Stewart has, if I'm going to listen to a Christmas Carol, I want to listen to the whole thing beginning to end.

[01:33:29] That's fair.

[01:33:29] That's fair.

[01:33:30] Yeah.

[01:33:31] So Paul says, I'd say politically, a Christmas Carol is somewhere between New Labour, Tony Blair, and one nation conservatism right of center.

[01:33:40] In the Victorian era, the UK Liberal Party was also taking shape in that ballpark, compassionate Tories, basically.

[01:33:47] What do you think?

[01:33:48] Yeah, I would say, I would say that's right.

[01:33:50] And like Dickens was, Dickens was involved with the Liberal Party.

[01:33:55] He was, he was, he was basically offered the candidacy for, I think, Reading, but I can't find, I, that, that's, I found that on Wikipedia, but I can't find what backs that up.

[01:34:09] Okay.

[01:34:10] Um, so I know he turned it down, but he, he, he was a great fan of, he was a great fan of Lord John Russell, who was one of like the early liberal, um, statesmen.

[01:34:23] Okay.

[01:34:24] So Dickens was both a personal friend and like a political admirer of John Russell.

[01:34:28] Um, and yeah, like, I think that, I think we talked about this in the, the intermezzo episode.

[01:34:34] There is a very interesting, there's a very interesting argument about whether the, the text of Christmas Carol is a left wing or a right wing, um, text.

[01:34:44] And yeah, I, I, I agree with Paul that I've always read it as a sort of one nation, noblesse oblige Tory book.

[01:34:52] Um, basically.

[01:34:55] Okay.

[01:34:55] Yeah.

[01:34:56] But Simon, but Simon Alvey, my co-host, I think could be said, would say the exact opposite.

[01:35:00] He would say it's, it's much, it's a much more subversive book than that.

[01:35:05] Okay.

[01:35:05] And what's his argument for that?

[01:35:07] Uh, well, I think we'd have to get Simon on to, I think actually if we do a, if we do a Christmas Carol next year, we ought to, we ought to invite him.

[01:35:15] Yeah.

[01:35:16] We ought to invite him on.

[01:35:17] Yeah.

[01:35:17] Okay.

[01:35:18] Deal.

[01:35:18] Yeah.

[01:35:20] Um, Paul says to be truthful, I've not watched a Christmas movie in a long time until this year.

[01:35:24] So I watched the 1951 Scrooge, which is great.

[01:35:28] And the animated 71 film.

[01:35:30] My mother is the big Christmas movie fan.

[01:35:32] She always watches them, including Disney classics.

[01:35:35] So, oh, so glad we got you to watch a Christmas Carol and two of the good ones.

[01:35:39] Um, yeah.

[01:35:41] Paul says 1971 animated film is cool just after the swinging sixties.

[01:35:45] So slightly trippy and hammer horror would have been popular in the UK around this time.

[01:35:50] I'd have only seen it on a monochrome TV in the seventies, which would have made it even spookier.

[01:35:55] Nice.

[01:35:57] Yeah, actually that's a good point, Paul.

[01:35:59] I didn't, I hadn't thought about that, but yeah, there is a bit of, there is a bit of hammer horror in there as well.

[01:36:04] Yeah.

[01:36:05] Yeah.

[01:36:06] Um, based on your podcast analysis, the Scrooge character reminds me of my late grandfather, who was a great guy to be around as a child, but hated Christmas and opted out most years.

[01:36:16] Stayed home while my grandma visited family.

[01:36:19] He was never mean.

[01:36:20] Hmm.

[01:36:20] Well.

[01:36:21] Okay.

[01:36:22] I loved the Christmas holidays off school.

[01:36:25] Favorite films were Freaky Friday, Jodie Foster and Willy Wonka, Gene Wilder.

[01:36:29] Uh, that's funny cause neither is Christmas movie, but neither of those.

[01:36:33] Yeah.

[01:36:35] Uh, but oddly my most memorable Christmas holiday was watching all the Elvis Presley and Beatles films one year.

[01:36:40] I became obsessed with music and musicals like rock horror, Greece.

[01:36:45] Okay.

[01:36:46] You mean, you mean, you mean, you mean Rocky horror, Rocky horror.

[01:36:50] Yeah.

[01:36:50] I think that's a typo.

[01:36:51] Yeah.

[01:36:52] Yeah.

[01:36:53] Um, anyway, enjoyed the podcast.

[01:36:56] Really cool listening.

[01:36:57] Thanks Paul.

[01:36:57] And PS for anyone curious about blackadder Christmas Carol, I recommend watching blackadder two second season as a character warmup.

[01:37:05] Uh, have you watched, are you a blackadder fan?

[01:37:07] Have you watched?

[01:37:08] Yeah, no.

[01:37:08] Um, I both watched them, but I used to have, I used to have the entire set of blackadder two through blackadder goes forth as audio, as audio cassettes.

[01:37:21] So it had like, it had like, obviously didn't have the pictures, but it had like the entire soundtrack for them.

[01:37:27] I used to, I used to listen, I used to listen to them in the car when, when my parents were going places, I used to listen to them in the car.

[01:37:34] Um, so yeah, I know, I know those, I know those shows.

[01:37:38] I could literally quote those shows from memory.

[01:37:41] Well, so I have to be honest that my only, I've never watched an episode of blackadder, but I was once in a stage adaptation of an episode of blackadder.

[01:37:51] Okay.

[01:37:52] Which one?

[01:37:54] Um, oh gosh, what was it?

[01:37:55] I was playing a, yeah, I mean, they're all like medieval set, right?

[01:38:00] So it's playing a nurse in a castle, which is probably like all of them.

[01:38:04] I don't know.

[01:38:05] Cause I wasn't familiar with it.

[01:38:07] The first season is medieval.

[01:38:10] The second series is Elizabethan.

[01:38:12] The third series is like, the third series is like the Napoleonic Wars.

[01:38:17] And the fourth season is the first world war.

[01:38:21] Okay.

[01:38:21] So it makes sense.

[01:38:22] He's saying catch up on the second season and you're saying that's the Elizabethan season.

[01:38:27] And we talked about in the Dickens episode, how the Elizabethan era was like held as peak Christmas.

[01:38:35] Yeah.

[01:38:36] No, I think, I think the reason, I think the reason why Paul says catch up on the second series is that there were, there were different writers between the first series and the, the, the second through four.

[01:38:48] So the character in the second series onwards is actually quite different from the character in, in the first season.

[01:38:57] Ah.

[01:38:57] The first, the first season is much more slapstick.

[01:39:01] Okay.

[01:39:02] Than the rest of it is.

[01:39:03] Okay.

[01:39:04] And apparently that's the only one I've been exposed to cause that's a medieval one.

[01:39:07] Yeah.

[01:39:08] Okay.

[01:39:09] Well, I mean, I need to, I need to catch up on Blackadder.

[01:39:12] I know it's like a hole in my cultural, you know, I won't bring up again that I haven't seen Sopranos either.

[01:39:19] There's only so much time in a day.

[01:39:21] There's only so much time in the day.

[01:39:23] There are only so many hours in the day.

[01:39:24] Right.

[01:39:26] All right.

[01:39:27] Let's do says, speaking of, uh, Sir Patrick Stewart reading a Christmas Carol is a work of art.

[01:39:32] I listen once a year.

[01:39:33] I had forgotten it's abridged, but it's Captain Picard.

[01:39:37] I mean, it's excellent.

[01:39:38] Yes.

[01:39:39] Abridged.

[01:39:40] But like the whole thing is the whole unabridged thing is only two hours, 45 minutes long.

[01:39:46] Why would anybody feel that he'd do a bridge it?

[01:39:49] This one's an hour shorter, but it's Captain Picard.

[01:39:52] But yeah, no, if I, I have never listened, I'm not really much for audio books.

[01:39:56] I've been dabbling a little bit, especially as like, for instance, Star Wars has some audio primary, you know, storytelling things.

[01:40:05] And so I'll listen to it in the format originally comes out in, but, um, I've never done it with a Christmas Carol next year.

[01:40:11] I'll try one.

[01:40:12] Yeah.

[01:40:13] The Hugh Grant one.

[01:40:14] Yeah.

[01:40:15] The Hugh Grant one is very good.

[01:40:17] Okay.

[01:40:18] Dally V says, thank you, Alicia and Luke, for your episode, uh, Christmas Carol classics.

[01:40:23] It kept me entertained while baking many Christmas cookies.

[01:40:26] Oh, that's perfect.

[01:40:28] I grew up watching each of the classics with my mom and the Muppet version being a staple and favorite as well.

[01:40:35] Recently, I've enjoyed the Disney animated version from 2009 with Jim Carrey and Gary Oldman.

[01:40:39] So another recommendation for that one.

[01:40:42] So many versions, never enough time to watch them all.

[01:40:44] Happy holidays.

[01:40:46] Yeah.

[01:40:46] Thank you, Dally V.

[01:40:47] And yes, Jim Carrey, hardcore, like right at the top of the list for next year.

[01:40:52] Right at the top of the list.

[01:40:54] And you're certainly not wrong about the number of adaptations.

[01:40:57] I think had I known how many adaptations there were, I might have suggested something else.

[01:41:03] So it's probably like, yeah.

[01:41:05] I mean, this is why when you first came to me, I paused for a minute and I was like, okay, well, which ones are we going to do?

[01:41:13] Yeah.

[01:41:17] But now that I started putting together the list, we've got at least two more years of this coming.

[01:41:22] At least.

[01:41:22] Yeah.

[01:41:24] Um, the TCS says I'm so far behind.

[01:41:27] I did watch all the movies and listen to all the pods, holidays and travel kept me offline.

[01:41:32] Great discussions.

[01:41:32] Well, you beat the feedback episode.

[01:41:34] So yes, you could send your feedback.

[01:41:37] Um, says I, I have lots to say, but we'll try to focus most important.

[01:41:42] Alicia, you are not alone.

[01:41:43] Muppet babies.

[01:41:44] Yes.

[01:41:45] The rest are not really my cup of tea.

[01:41:47] Uh, also I'm not a huge Bill Murray fan like vindicated.

[01:41:51] Indication.

[01:41:58] Yeah.

[01:42:20] Best Scrooge is clearly Scrooge McDuck.

[01:42:22] I clapped so hard.

[01:42:23] Finally.

[01:42:24] Finally.

[01:42:26] And then the mom followed up.

[01:42:27] It was great.

[01:42:28] Even if in the end, it all worked out.

[01:42:30] Agreed on the rebellion that goes poof.

[01:42:32] And then the feast at work should have been go home now.

[01:42:36] Yeah.

[01:42:36] We talked about, there's a few films where it's like, this is not reformed.

[01:42:40] If you're forcing people to have your party instead of their own.

[01:42:45] Um, I gave a lot of space to the twists and was able to enjoy the divas more than you two.

[01:42:50] I thought the heartbreaking childhoods really packed a punch, but agree.

[01:42:54] The endings left a bit to be desired.

[01:42:56] Vivica, a Fox and Robin Givens as the specters were super fun for me.

[01:43:00] And yeah, I mean, first of all, the second one, you and I were both.

[01:43:04] And I thought that the second divas movie, a new divas Christmas Carol was awesomely bad and you were meh on it.

[01:43:11] Yeah.

[01:43:12] Um, but I had fun with it.

[01:43:13] I just think, I think it was very bad, but I still had fun with it.

[01:43:16] But you and I both did love the first, a divas Christmas Carol.

[01:43:21] Didn't we?

[01:43:22] Yes.

[01:43:23] Yeah.

[01:43:23] No, no, no.

[01:43:23] I did.

[01:43:24] The Vanessa Williams one.

[01:43:25] I love the Vanessa Williams one.

[01:43:27] I like to love.

[01:43:28] And not just about her, but about the overall movie.

[01:43:31] Yeah.

[01:43:32] I like the overall movie.

[01:43:33] I think for the 2022 version, I think if I were being entirely fair to it, it was probably, it was probably a mistake to watch it back to back.

[01:43:44] Yeah.

[01:43:44] I mean, the 2001 one, um, because you couldn't help but compare the, compare the two.

[01:43:52] Uh, I just think for the, the 2022 one, I think you summed it up perfectly.

[01:43:57] My opinion was meh.

[01:43:59] If it were, if it were a color, it would have been beige.

[01:44:02] Hmm.

[01:44:03] And for me, it would be like child's finger painting, but that's still adorable.

[01:44:10] Um, she says circling back to Mickey.

[01:44:13] I found that Scrooge that Scrooge to be the rudest in the end, because not only does he invade the Cratchit house, he brings the whole town and also had all the kids carry all the gifts he gave to the Cratchits.

[01:44:24] I know it wasn't meant that way, but wow.

[01:44:27] Laughing face fire emoji.

[01:44:31] At the end of the 2022 musical, Scrooge does it right.

[01:44:35] Giving the kids money too, since he too made the day about himself.

[01:44:38] Yeah.

[01:44:40] Um, final notes.

[01:44:41] Everyone I told about this asked about the Muppet version and my sister was inspired to pull out her Mr. Magoo version.

[01:44:48] Don't know if that's on your list yet or not, or if it should be laughing.

[01:44:52] And hey, I've, I actually, it was already on my list for next year.

[01:44:57] So we're doubling down on that.

[01:45:00] Um, thanks so much for doing this.

[01:45:02] I really had no idea.

[01:45:03] This was such a big thing.

[01:45:04] I should have also mentioned that this, uh, that this adventure introduced me to the philo hula and canopy apps.

[01:45:12] I was on a quest to find them all.

[01:45:16] Yes.

[01:45:18] So that was the end of our Christmas Carol feedback.

[01:45:21] All right.

[01:45:22] Well, that's it for both silo and a Christmas Carol for now.

[01:45:27] Um, sorry if I missed any of your feedback.

[01:45:29] There's been quite the discussion going on in discord and other media.

[01:45:32] If you want to make sure I don't miss sharing your thoughts about the silo finale, please email them to woolshiftdustpodcast at gmail.com.

[01:45:40] You'll find that link again in the show notes and voicemails like Maureen's are also welcome and encouraged.

[01:45:45] We love to have you joining us on the podcast like that.

[01:45:48] Um, the next feedback roundup, as I said, will be the final one for the season about a week after the finale.

[01:45:55] And, uh, in the meantime, yeah, we'll see you on discord and blue sky.

[01:45:59] You can find those links as always in the show notes, as long as, as well as the links to the book club where you can join as either a silos in a stories in, uh, which is only available through supercast.

[01:46:13] Uh, stories in also have access to the extra star Wars feed, uh, or you can just get the silo season pass.

[01:46:20] Um, this week's spoiler cast discussion for silo is the kids and a new silos in and stories in, I will shout out the newest members by name during the regular weekly breakdowns.

[01:46:31] Thank you so much to those of you who have recommended us to friends or left kind reviews.

[01:46:37] This helps us really so much.

[01:46:39] And I cannot express my gratitude enough, um, to go back and check out the doom prophecy breakdowns in the lore hounds feed.

[01:46:45] There's going to be a couple more episodes, uh, wrapping up that season there.

[01:46:49] And Luke, you were going to watch some of that over break.

[01:46:52] Did you manage to?

[01:46:53] No, I haven't.

[01:46:54] I haven't got around to it.

[01:46:55] It is still on my list.

[01:46:57] Um, it's going to be a few more weeks till I start teaching again.

[01:47:00] So it's still on my list in my list of things to do, um, before my students get back.

[01:47:06] And you and I are going to be starting up our own dune coverage again this month.

[01:47:10] You're looking forward to that.

[01:47:11] Yes.

[01:47:12] Very much, very much so.

[01:47:14] Yeah.

[01:47:19] Episode.

[01:47:20] Oh yeah.

[01:47:20] And we still need, we need to set up the second one.

[01:47:22] Yeah.

[01:47:22] Yeah.

[01:47:22] Way, way back.

[01:47:24] Yeah.

[01:47:25] It's still about October.

[01:47:27] I think we recorded that in October.

[01:47:29] And then silo took over our lives.

[01:47:31] Yeah.

[01:47:32] And Christmas.

[01:47:33] Apple would, Apple would just too damn efficient for us.

[01:47:37] Yeah.

[01:47:38] Um, and also, yeah, check out the lore hounds feed.

[01:47:41] John and Marilyn did mid season coverage of skeleton crew there.

[01:47:44] And there will be wrap up, uh, for the season coming there as well after episode eight.

[01:47:49] Also the episode of for wicked and Joker two plus the Joker versus madcap episode.

[01:47:54] Some a million stories and knows for auto is coming.

[01:47:57] Lots of other stuff happening there.

[01:47:59] Always do, uh, in the link in the show notes, explore the lore hounds network where you can

[01:48:03] listen to properly.

[01:48:04] Howard, the star Wars cannon timeline podcast, radioactive ramblings, nevermind the music

[01:48:10] and the severance feed, which is about to get real busy on January 17th.

[01:48:16] And, uh, Luke, uh, it could be said you talked about it last episode.

[01:48:21] You talked about it in the public episode, but, uh, basically coming soon thoughts on the

[01:48:27] end of the last year and the new year.

[01:48:29] We've just, we've just had some difficulty, all three of us getting together over the holidays,

[01:48:34] but I do apologize if people were waiting for that, but it is coming.

[01:48:38] It is coming soon.

[01:48:39] All right.

[01:48:40] Last thoughts.

[01:48:42] Nope.

[01:48:43] Yeah.

[01:48:43] Like I said,

[01:48:44] I'd be done recording this monster session.

[01:48:47] I would never say that Alicia, but yes,

[01:48:50] it's the last double recording.

[01:48:53] We hope we hope we hope we hope we hope we'll be back in your ears for episode nine breakdown

[01:48:59] on Friday, uh, sooner for a silos and stories in and season pass holders until then don't

[01:49:07] tell Martha anything.