Silo: S2-e8 – "The Book of Quinn" is lost & found

[00:00:26] Hi, Alicia from Wool-Shift-Dust here, back with Luke, our Luke, as we call him on the SpoilerCast, to discuss Lucas, the other Luke, and his quest for the Book of Quinn in Episode 8 of Season 2 of Silo and Apple TV+. And Luke, before we get into our own thoughts on the episode, as usual, can you remind everyone of our spoiler policy, please?

[00:00:46] So Alicia has read all the books that go to comprise the series Silo. I have read none of them. We will be talking about anything that's happened in Season 2.

[00:00:56] Season 1 and up to and including Episode 8 of Season 2. We'll also be discussing spoilers for other episodes that have happened in Season 1 and 2, to the extent that they matter.

[00:01:11] But yeah, we won't be talking about anything in the books that hasn't already happened yet on screen, or anything that might give away what's going to happen on screen in the future.

[00:01:21] Right. Yeah. So Luke is a non-book reader, and I know a lot of you in the audience are as well, so we're going to respect that and not spoil anything that happened in the future, but also give you all the comparisons that you might like.

[00:01:37] Like, I often cannot predict the future in this show because they changed a lot, add new characters and plotlines and all this stuff.

[00:01:43] So when I'm speculating openly, I'm genuinely speculating.

[00:01:48] But there are extra speculations that Abby and I do with full book spoilers in a separate spoiler cast, which is in the book club.

[00:01:58] And this week's topic is going to be the kids of Silo 17.

[00:02:02] So stick around to the end and we'll talk about how you can listen to those.

[00:02:09] And yeah, Luke, I think this is the first public episode we've recorded since we got the news that Seasons 3 and 4 are officially greenlit.

[00:02:17] Yes, it is. So yeah, we have Season 3 greenlit, we have Season 4 greenlit, but that's going to be it.

[00:02:24] But that was the original plan that they wanted, so this is perfect.

[00:02:29] Okay, so the writers have 22 episodes, assuming they're going to be two 10-season episodes like Season 1 and 2 have been.

[00:02:37] They have 22 episodes left in which to wrap up the entire story.

[00:02:41] So Alicia, as the book reader, do you think they're going to do it in that spam?

[00:02:45] Yes, no, it always made sense to me.

[00:02:47] And to be honest, so we've said the first two episodes are the first book, which is true, but they are for this season.

[00:02:54] The stuff about the past rebellions, a lot of that they're pulling from the second book.

[00:03:00] Because the second book is a sort of prequel that looks at different timelines leading up to the story, including those past rebellions.

[00:03:08] So we're already getting some of that, and I think that they will probably, for Seasons 3 and 4, for Season 3, I think they'll switch back and forth between the prequel stuff and the current stuff.

[00:03:21] Because, you know, they're not going to put Juliet's story on pause or something for a season.

[00:03:26] Okay.

[00:03:27] Okay.

[00:03:29] So I'm glad that you're confident that you think they have enough time and space to do the books justice.

[00:03:36] I am, I'm relieved of that.

[00:03:38] Well, I am, yeah, I am confident that I know what the final reveal is going to be this season.

[00:03:47] I feel confident where I know, that I know where Season 3 is going to end, and then, yeah, the end should end with the trilogy of books.

[00:03:57] Probably not the short stories, but we'll see if they work any of that in.

[00:04:00] So, by the way, if you hear a pitter-pattering of little paw prints in the background, my cats have just been fed dinner, and so now it's go wild and chase time.

[00:04:11] They're so glad they have more room than they would in the silo.

[00:04:17] All right.

[00:04:18] So let's get into Season 2, Episode 8, The Book of Quinn.

[00:04:23] Your regularly scheduled breakdown will begin in 3, 2, 1.

[00:04:31] So, Quinn's codebook has been found, and I'm taking my internet points.

[00:04:35] It's the pact.

[00:04:37] Yes! Well done.

[00:04:40] But Luke, you also get internet points for something else Martha-related I'm not too happy about, but we're going to talk about it a lot later.

[00:04:47] Oh, Walker, what are you doing?

[00:04:49] I know.

[00:04:51] I know.

[00:04:52] We're going to, I mean, I see to a certain extent where she's coming from, but, you know, we're going to be recording right after this, the feedback episode,

[00:04:59] and I can see people are not happy about this.

[00:05:02] Also, also, me and Abby, your co-host for the book spoiler episode, are so collectively relieved that Lucas has had a change of clothes, and presumably...

[00:05:11] Yes.

[00:05:12] Because we were starting to get serious...

[00:05:14] Me and Abby were talking on Blue Sky in the last couple of episodes, and we were starting to get serious agita over the fact that we could nearly smell Lucas through the screen at this point.

[00:05:24] Yeah.

[00:05:24] Yes, Lucas has showered, so there's that going for this episode.

[00:05:29] Yeah.

[00:05:31] So, The Book of Queen aired Thursday slash Friday, January 2nd or 3rd, depending on where you live, 2025.

[00:05:38] Happy New Year, y'all.

[00:05:39] And the writer was Remy Aubuchon.

[00:05:42] We talked about him a bit last season because he also wrote episode four of season one, the one called Truth, and he's basically, he's a prolific sci-fi writer and producer.

[00:05:51] And the director of this episode was Amber Templemore, and she also directed...

[00:05:55] That's one half, by the way, of the Bert and Bertie directing Do It From Last Season.

[00:06:01] And Amber Templemore also directed episode five, Descent, of this season, and she's going to be directing the last two episodes of this season as well.

[00:06:11] So, Luke, overall thoughts on the episode?

[00:06:16] I thought this was like...

[00:06:18] This was an episode about characters falling to the dark side or towards the Simsnard end of the Simsnard Juliet scale.

[00:06:27] Sorry, that's my later impression.

[00:06:29] Yeah, so obviously we've got stuff going on with Walker, which we'll get to.

[00:06:35] But what I think is a little bit more interesting, that is, I think our boy Lucas is actually quite enjoying being Shadowhead of IT.

[00:06:44] I think he's sort of feeling his way into the role, but he is on a little bit of a power trip at various points in this episode.

[00:06:54] I think Judge Sims tries to bring him back down to Earth towards the end of the episode.

[00:07:00] I'm not entirely sure that Judge Sims succeeded, but I think this may be very much the fall of Lucas Kyle would be the way I would sort of think about this episode.

[00:07:15] And the fall of Martha Walker.

[00:07:17] Well, I mean, I would say at least in Lucas's case, he got some clapback and he learned from it and he comes around by the end, you know, because I was like, Lucas, what are you doing?

[00:07:27] This is not you.

[00:07:28] And then that guy, Terrence, literally says to him, this is not you.

[00:07:33] I can tell.

[00:07:35] He's like, I don't even know you, but this is not it.

[00:07:37] But I just took that as Lucas realizing that he catches more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[00:07:43] No, actually.

[00:07:45] Hmm.

[00:07:47] Hmm.

[00:07:47] Okay.

[00:07:48] All right.

[00:07:48] Well, we're definitely going to debate this when we get into his plot arc.

[00:07:52] So we're going to be talking through, as usual, one plot arc at a time.

[00:07:56] We're going to be starting this week with everything going on in Silo 18 before switching over to Juliet in Silo 17.

[00:08:02] So we're going to be talking about events in a somewhat different order than they happened in the TV episode.

[00:08:08] And we start in the deep where Shirley, Remy Milner, has decided to add to the wall of names Knox found in the digger room.

[00:08:17] She paints Cooper on the wall.

[00:08:19] Oh, I'm glad they didn't forget poor Cooper.

[00:08:23] No, I got I got I got a little bit emotional.

[00:08:26] It has to be said, I got a little bit of a lump in the throat when she was doing that.

[00:08:30] I'm really glad they didn't forget poor Coop.

[00:08:33] Yeah, he's also he's a little bit of a Scotty stand in.

[00:08:36] So Scotty is a book character who didn't make it into the show.

[00:08:39] We talked about him more in season one because that's when he would have taken place.

[00:08:43] And there's just there's a lot of affection for this character, Scotty.

[00:08:47] So when you think of Cooper that way, it's like, oh, Coopy, Cooper's Coopy, Coopty.

[00:08:54] Scott Oop.

[00:08:56] It sounds like something unfortunate you find in your pants.

[00:08:59] I'm sorry.

[00:09:00] Yes.

[00:09:02] Anyway, so after this, Shirley confronts Sheriff Billings, Chanasa Uche, in the cafeteria.

[00:09:09] And he's getting all kinds of side eye from the Down Deepers.

[00:09:13] Shirley tells him he's brave for eating Maeve's biscuits.

[00:09:16] And Billings says it's good chewing exercise, which should please the wife.

[00:09:20] And yeah, so Maeve, again, is the one who poisoned the food.

[00:09:24] And if she's not even a good cook, why do you think they haven't given her a new job?

[00:09:31] Lack of better alternatives?

[00:09:34] I guess.

[00:09:36] I don't know.

[00:09:39] Yeah.

[00:09:40] I feel like Shirley can cook better and at least hasn't tried to poison anyone.

[00:09:43] Yeah, this is true.

[00:09:45] This is true.

[00:09:46] I'm not sure that really, I'm not sure doing the job you were doing anyway really counts

[00:09:51] as the shitty jobs that Knox was telling us she would have to do.

[00:09:55] I'm not sure doing your regular job really qualifies as that.

[00:09:59] Maybe she has to do extra work as well.

[00:10:02] Yeah, maybe.

[00:10:03] Yeah.

[00:10:04] So would you rather eat Maeve's biscuits while Maeve's watching you or eat Hank's hush puppy

[00:10:10] stash while he's watching you?

[00:10:12] Do you want to basically, do you want to lose your teeth or do you want to lose your fingers?

[00:10:18] I'd go for the hush puppies.

[00:10:21] Those things look tasty.

[00:10:24] Hmm.

[00:10:25] It's true.

[00:10:26] I mean, I would be afraid of making an enemy because by doing one, I can make a friend as

[00:10:31] long as I managed to not make a face, which I have failed at once in public.

[00:10:39] Sushi.

[00:10:40] I was never a fish eater.

[00:10:42] Okay.

[00:10:43] But yeah, I was, I would worry about making an enemy of Hank.

[00:10:47] He's very attached to those hush puppies.

[00:10:49] Yeah.

[00:10:49] No, that, that, that, that, that is, that is a fair point.

[00:10:52] That is a fair point, but I've never had hush puppy.

[00:10:55] So I think curiosity, curiosity alone would drive me to that.

[00:10:59] Whereas I have had biscuits, crackers.

[00:11:03] So yeah.

[00:11:05] Yeah.

[00:11:06] So these biscuits, by the way, they're more like, they're some British people are like,

[00:11:11] are they like scones?

[00:11:12] Like, no, they're not like scones.

[00:11:13] And we get into big arguments about it on the Lorehounds discord.

[00:11:16] But they are.

[00:11:19] US version of biscuits.

[00:11:21] Like the southern version of biscuits.

[00:11:23] The southern version of biscuits.

[00:11:25] Yeah.

[00:11:25] And hush puppies are also southern, but to be honest, I don't think I've had hush puppies,

[00:11:30] but I love American biscuits.

[00:11:33] Okay.

[00:11:35] Okay.

[00:11:36] Well, now that we've settled that important piece of.

[00:11:40] It's an important gastronomical piece of trivia.

[00:11:43] Question.

[00:11:44] Yeah.

[00:11:44] Now we all know our stomach's a little better.

[00:11:46] Um, Shirley asks Billings what he plans to do next.

[00:11:50] And he says he still considers himself sheriff until told otherwise, but he admits he may still be down there because he's hiding out.

[00:11:57] He says he'll help the down deepers, quote unquote, as far as the pact allows.

[00:12:02] And she asks him what the pact says about Bernard stabbing meadows in the chest and framing her and knocks.

[00:12:08] And she's not taking Billings hiding behind needing proof.

[00:12:11] She says Mayor Holland and Sims will be laughing at his pitiful attempt to bring justice that is not possible for him to procure.

[00:12:19] And she, Walker, and knocks will be killed.

[00:12:22] Billings desperately seeks to maintain his faith in the founders, but Shirley says they were probably lying through their teeth about everything.

[00:12:29] Um, do you think that Billings has a somewhat like religious reverence for the founders?

[00:12:36] Do you get that sense?

[00:12:37] Or that other people do as well?

[00:12:39] A little bit, but I actually thought the way, the way Billings talked about it was actually quite utilitarian.

[00:12:46] It's, you know, we need a set of rules.

[00:12:49] We need a set of rules to live by.

[00:12:51] These are the rules that have been handed down.

[00:12:53] Now, um, therefore, in order to sort of stop the silo descending into anarchy, um, we need to follow them.

[00:13:04] I didn't think it was a quasi religious thing.

[00:13:06] I thought it was a very, it's a very small, very small C conservative thing.

[00:13:12] And I think that that's an important part of who Billings is.

[00:13:16] He is a, he's a cautious guy.

[00:13:18] He is a conservative guy.

[00:13:20] He's not going to step outside the rules more than he absolutely has to, because I think he has the idea that these rules have been passed down from generation to generation.

[00:13:32] And that they have survived for a reason.

[00:13:34] They have survived because they work because they have kept the people of the silo alive for this point of view, 140 years.

[00:13:43] So I didn't, I didn't get, I didn't get quasi religious.

[00:13:48] I got more utilitarian.

[00:13:52] Do you think that he and Bernard see the founders and the pack the same way in the end?

[00:14:00] Yes.

[00:14:01] Except that for Bernard, it's not packed.

[00:14:04] It's the order.

[00:14:06] But they're both using these, these old texts as the framework for their actions and the framework for right and wrong.

[00:14:19] So I don't think Bernard sees the pact the same way that Billings does.

[00:14:22] But if Bernard were to introduce Billings to the order in some way, I think that could, that could be very interesting.

[00:14:33] Because these two documents serve the same purpose.

[00:14:37] Right.

[00:14:37] Right.

[00:14:38] So yeah, obviously Billings doesn't know about the order, but it's interesting that he uses these exact words.

[00:14:44] He says, if we don't respect the order of things, then it all falls apart.

[00:14:48] Yeah.

[00:14:49] So, but what, to what extent do you think that's true?

[00:14:54] That you have to honor order to keep things going?

[00:14:59] I mean, I, I am, I always tend to come down on the side, you know, in the debate between which is more important order or justice.

[00:15:10] I always tend to come down on the side of order because justice can only come about in an ordered society outside of that.

[00:15:20] The only thing that, you know, everything would just, everything just becomes, makes right.

[00:15:26] So justice is a product of order.

[00:15:30] You're going to, do you want to guess my answer?

[00:15:32] I would say you're going to say just, you're going to say justice.

[00:15:36] Yes.

[00:15:37] But I think it's just because when I think about, you know, the side of order, then I think about how quickly that can slide into fascism.

[00:15:44] So I think obviously I don't want anarchy either.

[00:15:46] I think it is about the balance between the two, but I will err on the side of justice.

[00:15:52] I'm going to say this is a very Remy Aubuchon topic to, to frame, to frame a discussion around.

[00:16:02] This is, this is a topic he likes to deal with in his, in his writing.

[00:16:09] Okay.

[00:16:09] Okay.

[00:16:09] Well, there we go.

[00:16:11] Yeah.

[00:16:12] So on the religious side of things, do you think we've seen any sort of religious behavior of any sort in the silo?

[00:16:21] I mean, we have, we have seen the, we have seen the, the funeral.

[00:16:25] Right.

[00:16:25] And I think that, I think to some extent there is, there is an attempt to like venerate the founders, but not in a, not in a religious way.

[00:16:35] I've sort of, I think the model for that is more sort of like Kim Jong-un in, in North Korea or, you know, Lenin in the Soviet Union.

[00:16:45] They're not saying.

[00:16:46] But he wants to be, but Kim Jong-un wants to be a religious figure.

[00:16:50] He wants to be treated as a religious figure, but he doesn't actually claim to be like a supernatural.

[00:16:56] Well, doesn't he?

[00:16:57] Well, yeah, I guess.

[00:16:59] Yeah.

[00:16:59] This is, yeah.

[00:17:01] Yeah.

[00:17:01] You raise a good point, Alicia, because yeah, it's, it's that kind of boundary between venerating historical figures and venerating legends.

[00:17:10] So yeah, there is something quasi religious about the way that the way people, not just Billings, but the silo in general has been sort of taught to see the founders.

[00:17:22] Yeah.

[00:17:23] And I also think about things about like, like swearing on the pact, you know, the way that we would swear on a Bible in court.

[00:17:29] Yeah.

[00:17:30] Which is kind of weird if you think about it.

[00:17:31] But I don't think, I think it's interesting as well that the founders are undifferentiated.

[00:17:36] They are just the founders.

[00:17:38] There's no, you know, they're not talked about as individuals.

[00:17:43] Right.

[00:17:44] They're just a collective.

[00:17:45] Right.

[00:17:46] Like it's not a myth about, you know, like Mary and George and Carl.

[00:17:50] Exactly.

[00:17:51] Exactly.

[00:17:53] Yeah.

[00:17:53] Yeah.

[00:17:54] So do you think that there could be more religiosity or less emerging as the crisis point, you know, comes to more of a head?

[00:18:07] I think that's interesting.

[00:18:09] I mean, Bernard clearly, Bernard will clearly use the founders and the mythology behind them if he thinks it's useful.

[00:18:17] You know, we've already seen a bit of that.

[00:18:24] I think it will be in.

[00:18:27] My only answer is I don't know.

[00:18:30] But I think if Bernard thinks it's useful, then he will use that.

[00:18:35] No doubt in my mind about that.

[00:18:38] Yeah.

[00:18:39] So I have to say, this reminds me of a comic that I just read.

[00:18:45] The whole thing about, you know, Billings thinking that he can get justice.

[00:18:52] It reminds me of a 1872 comic, Marvel.

[00:18:56] So and we have it set in the Wild West and we have Captain America as the mayor or sorry, the sheriff of the town.

[00:19:03] And he has someone in his jail who has blown up or tried to blow up a dam because the dam was stealing water from his people, basically.

[00:19:15] And so Captain America thinks if I bring him to the judge, then they will hear this out in court and everyone will hear how this dam is hurting other people.

[00:19:28] And this is what they need.

[00:19:29] They need to be able to hear this in public.

[00:19:31] And then this is how we can solve the problem.

[00:19:34] Only it turns out that, yeah, the mayor of the town, which is Wilson Fisk, is laughing at him, literally.

[00:19:42] So just as, you know, just as surely is suspecting in this.

[00:19:46] I don't know.

[00:19:47] Just really.

[00:19:47] Anyway, just a random thing.

[00:19:48] And yes, the 1872 comic is the basis of or the inspiration for one of the What If episodes recently.

[00:19:56] And that's, yes, why I was reading it recently.

[00:19:59] Okay.

[00:20:00] But it just reminded me, I don't, just the similarity of this story archetype that comes back.

[00:20:05] Yeah.

[00:20:06] It's just funny.

[00:20:06] Literally, it's about a sheriff who just believes in the system and then finds out like, oh.

[00:20:14] All right.

[00:20:15] Well, speaking of the system, because of the blockade, the Down Deep is running low in medicine and bandages and the like.

[00:20:21] And Martha, Harriet Walter, she asks a group led by Teddy Olatunje Ofe, who has come to her for help and advice, how they plan to get into medical supply.

[00:20:32] They want to break in and get new supplies, basically.

[00:20:35] And she's like, what, are you going to saw up through the floor again?

[00:20:38] And Teddy says they're going to go late when it's quiet in those chairs, quote unquote, jewels and coop used on the generator.

[00:20:45] And when Knox, Shane McRae asks Martha if she has a better plan because she scoffs at theirs.

[00:20:51] She says they need to get McLean out of detention so that she can get them medical supplies as head of supply.

[00:20:57] Not to mention that McLean sacrificed herself for their sorry asses.

[00:21:02] But Knox points out that breaking Carla out of Fort Judicial is a lot more difficult than breaking into supply.

[00:21:09] So, yeah, what do you think?

[00:21:11] Why do you think that this group came to Martha to discuss these plans?

[00:21:16] What do you think they wanted from her in this moment?

[00:21:18] I'm not sure they wanted anything from Walker apart from validation because Walker seems to be like the wise old owl of mechanical.

[00:21:27] Right.

[00:21:28] You know, Knox is clearly in charge, but he leans on Walker as a counselor, as somebody who has been, you know, as somebody who they keep pointing out is, you know, older than the average citizen of the silo.

[00:21:44] And therefore has seen a lot and knows a lot about the silo and how it works.

[00:21:51] And I think, I don't think they were looking for anything specific from Walker other than counsel, other than advice.

[00:21:59] Yeah.

[00:22:00] Yeah.

[00:22:01] Yeah, no, I think, I think you're right.

[00:22:02] I have to note that Papa Nichols was there even, Ian Glenn.

[00:22:06] So he's gone full rebel now.

[00:22:08] He's came down deep to the max.

[00:22:11] Yeah.

[00:22:11] Do you think, do you think Juliet, Martha says Juliet would tell them they're all insane for going through with this.

[00:22:17] Do you think that she would?

[00:22:19] What do you think Juliet would say about her father being involved for one?

[00:22:22] No, I think Juliet would be very proud of daddy, Dr. Nichols.

[00:22:27] And I hope either in the last couple of episodes of this season or early next season, we get a reunion and an explanation of everything that's happened.

[00:22:38] Because, well, for reasons we'll get into later on the episode, Juliet really needs some good news right about now.

[00:22:44] Oh, Juliet.

[00:22:45] Um, so yeah, no, I think, I think she, I think she would be very proud of it, dad.

[00:22:51] Yeah.

[00:22:52] Um, and I would also, I don't also think she'd call walk, she'd call Walker an idiot because like not Knox is absolutely right.

[00:22:59] I mean, the, the plan to sort of steal medical supplies is not straightforward, but any idea of breaking Carla out of four judicial is just crazy talk.

[00:23:10] It's not going to happen.

[00:23:13] Hmm.

[00:23:14] Well, so I think like old Juliet, who didn't know about the lies and the other silos, et cetera.

[00:23:21] I think that she would definitely be all for this plan.

[00:23:26] I mean, obviously she, she literally broke into supply herself before.

[00:23:29] So that's the reason why Bernard started out hating her because she stole that, the good heat tape.

[00:23:35] Um, but right now, I think obviously after what she found out about from solo about, you know, how silo 17 ended and all that,

[00:23:45] I think that it would terrify her that everyone she loves is about to do something stupid and die.

[00:23:51] And I guess, I guess that's kind of what Martha's feeling right now too.

[00:23:56] Like this is before Bernard has approached her.

[00:23:58] So we're just talking about her getting into the, uh, frame of mind that she's in when she has that conversation with Bernard.

[00:24:06] Yeah.

[00:24:07] Um, I mean, I think Walker isn't thinking particularly straight at this point.

[00:24:12] Hmm.

[00:24:12] She's like, so wracked with guilt about what happened with Carla, both in the present, but also what happened 20 years ago to, to cause their marriage to break down.

[00:24:25] Which we still don't really know.

[00:24:27] We still don't know the details of, but all of this stuff is clearly like, all of this stuff is clearly churning around in her head.

[00:24:34] Um, and so I don't think Martha's thinking particularly clearly in that much.

[00:24:39] She isn't thinking particularly clearly in the entire episode, but certainly not in that particular moment.

[00:24:46] Yeah.

[00:24:47] Yeah.

[00:24:47] I think there's definitely, there's guilt and fear and we make our worst decisions when we're wracked with guilt and fear.

[00:24:53] Yeah.

[00:24:55] Do you think that, you know, in the, in the side of, you know, it being too difficult to break out Carla, do you think Knox and co are being cold or, or do you get where they're coming from?

[00:25:05] Or is it like a little from column A?

[00:25:08] Yeah.

[00:25:08] I think it's a little from, a little from column A, a little from column B.

[00:25:10] I think Knox could have been a bit more gentle about sort of letting Walker down.

[00:25:16] Hmm.

[00:25:17] On the other hand, like Knox in particular as the, the, you know, the, the, the, the leader of the down deep has been under, has been under a lot of pressure.

[00:25:29] Um, and I think I may as well bring this up now because I think this is an issue, not just with this episode, but wider than this.

[00:25:38] How much time has passed, do we think between the end of season one and where we are now?

[00:25:47] I mean, I'm guessing may, maybe a couple of weeks, not longer for sure.

[00:25:54] Yeah.

[00:25:55] I would say, I'd say about, I was trying to work it out in my head and I'd say somewhere between two and three weeks.

[00:26:01] Okay.

[00:26:02] I think maybe even on the shorter end of that, but yeah, not, we definitely under a month.

[00:26:06] We haven't gotten that far.

[00:26:08] I think maybe even less than that, to be honest.

[00:26:11] Yeah.

[00:26:12] I would, I would, I don't know quite how, but I would like in the next, in the next two episodes, if they could just.

[00:26:19] Somebody to say like when she cleans two weeks ago.

[00:26:23] Something like that.

[00:26:24] Yeah.

[00:26:25] Yeah.

[00:26:26] Um, so yeah.

[00:26:28] On, on the Carla question.

[00:26:29] I mean, to be fair, you know, Martha says she sacrificed herself for all of our sorry asses.

[00:26:34] Like, I feel like she mostly sacrificed herself for Martha.

[00:26:37] Do you think she would have done the same if it were just Knox and Shirley who were at risk?

[00:26:43] No.

[00:26:44] No, I agree.

[00:26:45] I agree.

[00:26:47] Yeah.

[00:26:47] But, but, and of course, yeah, none of these people care as much about Carla as Martha does because they broke up when Knox was still a kid.

[00:26:54] But should they still be doing it just because it's Martha?

[00:26:59] No.

[00:26:59] And I think in the, at the end of this conversation, you know, Shirley does sort of stay behind whenever the, when the meeting's breaking up and go, you know, we do understand.

[00:27:10] Right.

[00:27:10] How much you care about Carla.

[00:27:13] Even though maybe, even though maybe they don't because they don't know the background.

[00:27:18] Right.

[00:27:18] So, like the more, the more I see of Shirley as a character, the more I like her because I think of all the characters, she has got the most, of all the characters.

[00:27:32] Yeah.

[00:27:32] Of all the characters, I think she's got the most empathy with like the people around, with the people around her.

[00:27:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:27:40] Yeah.

[00:27:41] Yeah.

[00:27:42] I, I, I mean, I agree.

[00:27:44] I love Shirley as a character, but I also, I can see where Martha is probably feeling in this moment.

[00:27:50] Like she's scared for the people she cares about.

[00:27:52] And she's also feels like the people she cares about have turned their backs on her a bit.

[00:27:58] Like people are always coming to ask her for stuff or advice or support.

[00:28:05] And now Julia isn't there.

[00:28:07] She kind of has nobody to, to, to confide in.

[00:28:12] Yeah.

[00:28:12] Yeah.

[00:28:13] Yeah.

[00:28:14] So Martha tells them they're all going to get themselves killed or arrested.

[00:28:17] And for what?

[00:28:18] Then they're going to be worse off than before.

[00:28:20] And she's done listening to them and she kicks them out of her workshop.

[00:28:23] And just then a message appears on her computer, summoning her to fix a pump.

[00:28:28] And on her way up, Shirley catches up to her to ask where she's going.

[00:28:32] And she says, groundwater removal called.

[00:28:35] The pump on 90 isn't working.

[00:28:37] She's guaranteed safe passage.

[00:28:39] And Shirley points out that they shut down computer messaging.

[00:28:42] And it's, so it's clearly a trap.

[00:28:44] So I don't know.

[00:28:45] Would you, do you think Walker does already have an idea that this pump fixing thing isn't quite legit?

[00:28:52] Yeah, I think she does.

[00:28:53] I don't, I don't think she knows that it's going to be Bernard.

[00:28:57] That's going to be waiting for her.

[00:28:58] But I think she's got an inkling that this is somebody trying to pass a message.

[00:29:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:29:05] Yeah, I think she's desperate for information.

[00:29:07] And at this point, like, she doesn't want to do their plan about liberating the medical supplies.

[00:29:13] She wants to feel like she's doing something for Carla.

[00:29:16] And she did turn on that camera.

[00:29:18] Yeah, she did.

[00:29:20] Yeah.

[00:29:20] But guaranteed safe passage.

[00:29:22] That means the judicial slash IT must have approved.

[00:29:25] So.

[00:29:27] Yeah.

[00:29:28] Yeah.

[00:29:28] But I mean, also, I can't, given what we've seen in, in silo 17, I can see, like, why you would call issues around making sure the pumps work.

[00:29:40] Why you would call that as, like, neutral.

[00:29:42] Because that really is vital to the survival of the entire silo.

[00:29:46] So.

[00:29:46] Right.

[00:29:47] Yeah.

[00:29:48] It is something, I have to say, that Juliet talks about being a regular part of her work in the book.

[00:29:54] Okay.

[00:29:54] Maintaining the pumps and making sure, yeah.

[00:29:57] Because, yeah, groundwater will seep up.

[00:30:00] But, and Martha makes two excellent points about, you know, Shirley saying she's walking into a trap.

[00:30:05] She says, well, if they throw me into a cell, maybe they'll put me in with Carla.

[00:30:09] And at least I'll have a few hours away from all of you and your stupid plans.

[00:30:15] Oh, Martha.

[00:30:17] Oh, Martha.

[00:30:20] All right.

[00:30:21] This is a good place to take a quick pause.

[00:30:23] And when we come back, we're going to talk about the great book hunt and backlash.

[00:30:29] Okay.

[00:30:30] Okay.

[00:30:30] So, Lucas Kyle, Avinash, has the keys to Meadows apartment and a brand new bright blue shadow to the head of IT badge.

[00:30:37] And he's not going to be stopped by two judicial goons, which is honestly what they're credited as at the end.

[00:30:44] They're judicial goons, Tyler and Jesse, played by James Payton and Anchor Ball.

[00:30:50] And Lucas pulls rank and kicks him out so he can search the apartment.

[00:30:55] And they said, Judge Sims ordered us to pack everything up and bring it back to judicial.

[00:31:02] And, yeah, Sims is playing with fire because Sims knows of all people and places that he's going to take all of Judge Meadows' belongings back to judicial.

[00:31:13] That is, that's fighting words.

[00:31:15] Yeah, he's sending Bernard a not-too-subtle message.

[00:31:19] Yeah.

[00:31:20] Um, yeah.

[00:31:22] But I do like the, uh, the judicial goons.

[00:31:25] That was us being nice.

[00:31:27] Yeah.

[00:31:27] You wanted to go the other way.

[00:31:28] And it's like, okay, back off.

[00:31:32] Back off.

[00:31:34] I don't blame Lucas for being a dick back in this circumstance.

[00:31:37] Yeah.

[00:31:37] I don't like his behavior later.

[00:31:39] But in this case, he's, he sends him a cold, well, I don't know what you're going to tell him.

[00:31:43] Like, boom.

[00:31:44] Yeah, boom.

[00:31:47] Yeah.

[00:31:47] I mean, they are like really unnecessarily asshole-ish.

[00:31:50] Um, yeah.

[00:31:51] So I don't know.

[00:31:52] Is there anything else Lucas could have done with these two other than pulling rank?

[00:31:57] No.

[00:31:58] And like I say, I think, I think, I think Lucas quite enjoyed, um, pulling, you know, because Lucas, like he says later on, he's a kid from the lower mids.

[00:32:08] He's, he's probably been, he's probably been bullied by judicial all his life, as of most people in the silo.

[00:32:16] And I think he got a moment of great satisfaction from being able to flash his new blue IT badge and go, you know, jog on, basically.

[00:32:28] Yeah.

[00:32:29] Yeah.

[00:32:30] Head of IT even.

[00:32:31] Head of IT.

[00:32:32] I love, I love, I love the exchange where one of the goons says, uh, it's blue.

[00:32:37] And the other one says, I know color.

[00:32:38] So like, yeah, these two went to the Amundsen school of judicial gooning.

[00:32:44] Also, also like, um, Lucas's new outfit, like clearly, clearly there is like a uniform for the head of IT because it's not, it's not the full, it's not the full suit that Bernard wears.

[00:32:57] But like everything is, everything is the same color, same sort of texture, same sort of cut.

[00:33:04] Right.

[00:33:05] So I don't know whether that's, whether that's a story element or whether that's just the costume department going, we want you to see that this person is in IT.

[00:33:14] I think it's a book nod in, they wear silver at IT.

[00:33:19] The, the people in those positions in IT in the book wear silver.

[00:33:23] Okay.

[00:33:24] Wow.

[00:33:25] But yeah, not overall keen on Lucas's power trip later in the episode, but we'll talk about that and how he gets called out because it's not him.

[00:33:35] But, um, but I did think about like, you said it was cute of Billings to put on his tough side a few episodes ago.

[00:33:42] And I didn't agree with you about Billings then.

[00:33:44] I thought Billings really did pull it off.

[00:33:47] But in this episode, I was like, oh, Lucas, just stop, honey.

[00:33:50] This is.

[00:33:55] So with the judicial goons gone, Lucas starts looking through the books to see if the book cipher works on any of them.

[00:34:02] And none of them are, are working out.

[00:34:05] So he starts to wonder if Salvador Quinn, the head of IT during that rebellion, 140 years ago, who wrote this code that Lucas is trying to crack.

[00:34:13] If he might have given the book he needs to a member of his own family.

[00:34:17] So Lucas looks up his descendants and yeah.

[00:34:20] And then we see also Lucas learns, um, that his new ID badge gives him special privileges and searching the silo computer system.

[00:34:29] So now he would be able to open that hard drive that Juliet wanted his help with last season.

[00:34:35] Do you think if she brought the hard drive to him now and ask for help, he would help her?

[00:34:40] That is a very good question.

[00:34:44] Honestly, I'm not sure either.

[00:34:46] I think I have different answers for the book Lucas versus TV Lucas on this.

[00:34:51] I mean, obviously I can only speak to TV Lucas, but I think the answer is probably no.

[00:34:56] Hmm.

[00:34:57] Um, because I think, I think Lucas has bought into the idea that whatever is in this Salvador Quinn diary book is like of existential peril to the silo.

[00:35:16] So even if, even if he doesn't, this is, this is the thing, even if he doesn't like Bernard on a personal level, I think his curiosity and his, his, um, drive to know how things work and why they work is pulling him inexorably into the world of it into, into, into Bernard's world.

[00:35:43] Um, and that's why I say, I think, I think this, this episode in a lot of ways is about like Lucas's fall as a character.

[00:35:50] Now it doesn't mean he doesn't, he falls to Bernard's level or that he doesn't, he's not going to redeem himself at some point in the future.

[00:36:00] But I don't think curiosity is going to get Lucas killed, but it might turn him into a very different person.

[00:36:07] Where are you putting him on the Juliet to Bernard scale now?

[00:36:10] On the Simsonard scale.

[00:36:11] Uh, I mean, are we still calling it Simstar?

[00:36:14] Uh, yeah.

[00:36:15] I mean, I think we've got, we've got to honor the tradition now going back to our Christmas episodes.

[00:36:21] This is our version of dead as a doornail.

[00:36:23] Um, um, so I would put him at the moment six, uh, no, seven on the, on the Juliet to Simstar scale.

[00:36:35] Okay.

[00:36:35] Okay.

[00:36:36] All right.

[00:36:37] I don't know.

[00:36:38] I guess I'm putting him in the middle, but I think the point you make about his curiosity is in addition to whatever feelings he had for Juliet, or we don't really get a sense of what he thinks about her now.

[00:36:50] Um, well, okay.

[00:36:52] Maybe a little sense later I'll bring up, but I think his curiosity would drive him to help her if he could, because he would want to know what was on that hard drive.

[00:37:02] If he weren't already being roped into decoding it.

[00:37:06] Yeah.

[00:37:08] I think it's interesting when he did the search on the computer, a bunch of names popped up, but he only wrote down the one name, Terrence Penbroke.

[00:37:14] Yes.

[00:37:15] Yeah.

[00:37:16] 73, 18.

[00:37:17] Yeah.

[00:37:18] I didn't, I didn't get, I didn't get, I just, I just thought that was, I think Silo is pretty good at avoiding this, but I just took that as like massive plots.

[00:37:27] Um, plot armor is the wrong word, but like a plot device.

[00:37:30] Cause yeah, there was, there was like,

[00:37:31] it's like hand waving.

[00:37:33] Yeah.

[00:37:33] It was a bit hand waving because there were at least, there were at least a dozen names on that screen.

[00:37:38] But maybe the others weren't as direct descendants or something.

[00:37:42] I don't know.

[00:37:43] Possibly, possibly, but they didn't seem to be organized.

[00:37:46] Right.

[00:37:47] Like, how did he know?

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:48] It doesn't, it doesn't really matter.

[00:37:50] We can let them get away with a bit of hand waving.

[00:37:52] Yeah.

[00:37:54] Well, Sims Common, meanwhile, is pissed that Lucas Kyle now has the authority to send his men,

[00:38:01] who were packing up Meadows apartment away and he's taking it out on poor Amundsen, Christian Ochoa Lavernia.

[00:38:07] Uh, since Bernard doesn't tell Sims what he's up to anymore.

[00:38:11] Sims wants Amundsen to give him this Intel, but Bernard doesn't trust stapler guy with that information either.

[00:38:17] And Amundsen says he wouldn't be able to tell him anyway.

[00:38:21] So, you know, people don't give Sims the proper credit for being a manipulator that he, he is.

[00:38:30] Um, I mean, he's not, he's not his, at his wife's level.

[00:38:34] Uh, but I think if they got on the same page, people better watch out, but just, it's a subtle way that he frames things to Amundsen.

[00:38:41] Like he's like that little shit you and I sent to the mind.

[00:38:44] So this is a way of, of saying, you know, you and I in this thing together, us versus him, just framing it in this, this way of like association between us.

[00:38:53] Distance from third party that I want you to get Intel on.

[00:38:57] Yeah.

[00:38:57] And you can tell, you can tell throughout this entire scene, Amundsen is not comfortable.

[00:39:02] Now that's partly because Sims gets right up in his face, like physically right up in his face.

[00:39:09] He's all in his personal space.

[00:39:10] Um, but I think, yeah, you're right as well.

[00:39:13] They've got a shared history that Sims can call back to.

[00:39:17] Um, but I actually, you know, for all the, for all the, the fun we make of Amundsen, the stapler incident, I actually thought he stood his ground against.

[00:39:27] Oh yeah.

[00:39:28] Um, remarkably well, cause he's not having any of this cause like Sims goes on.

[00:39:33] I am judge Sims.

[00:39:35] You know, you answer and it's like, yeah.

[00:39:37] When Meadows was judged, did you answer to her?

[00:39:40] Except on, except on favor.

[00:39:43] Yeah, exactly.

[00:39:43] Amundsen may not be the, the sharpest tool in the box, but he does know, but he does know his role and he knows, you know, he is, he is in a way just as loyal for the idea of the pact as Billings, arguably more so in a literal sense.

[00:40:06] Cause like Amundsen, you know, whatever relationship he had with Sims, that is irrelevant to him in that moment.

[00:40:15] Hmm.

[00:40:16] He's a chain of command guy.

[00:40:18] Hmm.

[00:40:19] I do see a bit of a, um, parallel between him and Lucas this episode in the sense that they're both getting a little cocky in their new roles.

[00:40:27] Their new greater.

[00:40:28] Yeah.

[00:40:28] No, no.

[00:40:29] Him as head of judicial security.

[00:40:31] Lucas says, shout out to the head of IT.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:34] Yeah.

[00:40:34] I mean, yeah.

[00:40:36] Lucas would theoretically be his, his boss one day.

[00:40:39] His boss, kind of.

[00:40:41] Yeah.

[00:40:43] Um, but I do think Amundsen has, has maybe started to underestimate Mr. Sims at this point.

[00:40:50] Anyway, we'll talk about Mrs. Sims in a bit.

[00:40:53] Yeah.

[00:40:54] This is very, this is very much of, this is very much a family Sims effort.

[00:40:58] Hmm.

[00:40:59] Yeah.

[00:40:59] But yeah, the way the like, Amundsen just gives Sims this like smug, smug nod and walks away.

[00:41:06] I'm like, Ooh, I don't know if you should do that.

[00:41:09] Oh.

[00:41:10] Yeah.

[00:41:12] Hmm.

[00:41:14] So Lucas, meanwhile, goes to see Terrence Pembroke played by Stuart Milligan and his sheep farming

[00:41:20] family, his daughter-in-law, Jocelyn, Diana Bermudez shuts the door in his face, telling

[00:41:26] Lucas to tell his boss, they'll have their wool before the next cleaning, pretending not

[00:41:30] to know the name Salvador Quinn and lying about her father-in-law's whereabouts.

[00:41:35] Lucas points out that Terrence is a direct descendant of Salvador Quinn and Salvador himself,

[00:41:40] sorry, and Terrence himself pipes up to ask who's at the door before also attempting to

[00:41:46] shut it in his face.

[00:41:47] Lucas flashes his bright blue badge again and makes some vague threats about official interrogations

[00:41:53] and they let Lucas in.

[00:41:55] Lucas tells him he's looking for books and he thinks they have it.

[00:41:58] They of course play dumb.

[00:42:00] All the books were destroyed in the rebellion, of course, they say, and they've long since

[00:42:05] disassociated with the name Salvador Quinn, which brought shame on the family.

[00:42:09] Lucas threatens a judicial search team and says he'll leave them to do a more thorough search

[00:42:15] to prevent that.

[00:42:16] He'll get a coffee and be back.

[00:42:17] But when Lucas walks out, Terrence follows Lucas into the alley and stops him with some

[00:42:23] advice.

[00:42:24] Lucas is trying too hard to be a tough guy and he's not pulling it off.

[00:42:30] So the Pembrokes, we learn they make wool for the cleanings and they've been doing it five

[00:42:35] generations since the whole Quinn incident.

[00:42:38] There's five generations, including the new, the young one there who looks like, I don't

[00:42:43] know, he looks like he's at least in his twenties.

[00:42:45] Brandon played by Brandon.

[00:42:47] Yeah.

[00:42:47] Brandon played by Brandon Marinus.

[00:42:51] And apparently this making wool for the cleanings is to atone for what Salvador Quinn did.

[00:42:58] Does this, I guess this makes sense.

[00:43:00] Yeah.

[00:43:01] I thought it was interesting that making, making the wool is seen as a, it's seen as

[00:43:07] a punishment.

[00:43:07] It's seen as like the lowest of the low.

[00:43:10] And it did, so it did sort of remind me of something I've read once that people who

[00:43:16] were hangmen that tended to be passed as a, as a profession from father to son on down

[00:43:23] because it's, it's, it's not, it wasn't a profession that people wanted to do for obvious reasons.

[00:43:29] So it tended to stick in, it tended to stick in particular families because the people that

[00:43:35] make the wool kind of, they're not executioners, but they, they kind of are involved in the process

[00:43:42] of execution.

[00:43:46] Yeah.

[00:43:47] No, I guess that that's, that's true in the, if they're making wools for the cleanings and

[00:43:51] apparently they are skilled wool workers in general because they also make blankets mostly

[00:43:56] for up toppers.

[00:43:57] So that means like they must be the best in their craft, right?

[00:44:00] Yeah.

[00:44:00] Yeah.

[00:44:02] I know they've got like a little loom in the, you can see in the background.

[00:44:06] Yeah.

[00:44:07] We, we see Brandon working at the loom.

[00:44:09] Yeah.

[00:44:10] And you know, so I was thinking like that Lucas, he tries to strong arm these people because

[00:44:16] he learned from his last interaction with the, with the judicial goons, the pooling rank

[00:44:21] gets things done.

[00:44:22] But obviously with this family, it kind of backfires and they're actually less inclined

[00:44:27] to help him at first, which I mean, I'm, I'm glad because he gets called out and has

[00:44:32] to think about it.

[00:44:33] But what do you think the difference is between this family and the judicial goons?

[00:44:37] Well, I think obviously if they're making the wool for the cleanings, they've had a lot

[00:44:43] of experience dealing with people from judicial.

[00:44:46] Hmm.

[00:44:47] So they're not easily intimidated.

[00:44:50] But the people in judicial have a lot of experience dealing with people from judicial, right?

[00:44:54] So.

[00:44:55] That's true.

[00:44:57] And I think as well, they kind of, you know, the, the, the point that both the, the father

[00:45:03] and the daughter-in-law make is that they're kind of social pariahs in the silo anyway.

[00:45:09] So, um, I guess they're sort of, they are not, not, I guess they are kind of sort of

[00:45:16] very protective and very sort of insular.

[00:45:20] Uh, right.

[00:45:21] So I don't think they're going to, they're not going to take any guff.

[00:45:24] They're not going to take any guff from anybody.

[00:45:27] Um, I did think the little comment about the, the up toppers was interesting because it's

[00:45:32] another, it's another little hint of like the way in which like class tension is like

[00:45:38] shot through the entire like society of the silo.

[00:45:43] Cause like the people in the up top get the good blankets.

[00:45:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:45:48] Absolutely.

[00:45:49] Yeah.

[00:45:50] Yeah.

[00:45:50] I mean, I, and I wonder if, you know, that, that pride and being like, oh, we sell to the

[00:45:54] up toppers mostly, um, that, that, you know, that also gives them, I think I, I tend to

[00:46:02] notice that the people who are most easily bullied are the people who have insecurities,

[00:46:09] you know, where they think I have to go along with what they're saying or else I'm valued

[00:46:16] less or, or else I'm excluded or, you know, things will be worse for me.

[00:46:22] Well, so Lucas reports back to Bernard that the family was no help saying Quinn's legacy

[00:46:28] of failure continues.

[00:46:29] And Bernard says Quinn wasn't a failure, which confuses Lucas because they've all been taught

[00:46:35] that Quinn let the rebels erase the servers and burn the books.

[00:46:38] Bernard says that was a cover story.

[00:46:41] Quinn actually saved the silo.

[00:46:43] At that point, they were having a rebellion every 20 ish years, each a risk that someone

[00:46:48] would open the airlock and kill them all.

[00:46:50] So Quinn thought that if they could forget, they were unhappy, forget about the rebellions,

[00:46:55] sever the silo from its history.

[00:46:57] They could achieve a lasting peace again.

[00:46:59] So he cut off access to the servers and the books said, the rep said the rebels destroyed

[00:47:05] them and put a chemical compound in the water that dulled people's memories of the course

[00:47:10] of years until they forgot about their past collectively leading to 140 years of peace.

[00:47:16] So the chemical compound in the water, do you think that's the same thing that they were

[00:47:21] giving shots of to people to make them forget recent events?

[00:47:26] I assume it was.

[00:47:28] I assume it was.

[00:47:29] Now, the question that popped into my mind was, okay, he severed the silo from the servers

[00:47:34] in the books.

[00:47:36] Did he also sever silo 18 from the rest of the silos?

[00:47:41] Hmm.

[00:47:42] Hmm.

[00:47:43] Okay.

[00:47:44] Okay.

[00:47:46] Um, yeah.

[00:47:48] And it's also, it is interesting to note that we were told in the first season, just like

[00:47:54] all of the silos and we're told that, um, they had, you know, that those were destroyed.

[00:48:01] They, um, the hard drives and, and the books and the servers and all that.

[00:48:05] And in fact, they still exist.

[00:48:07] They're just cut off from public access.

[00:48:09] So that does make me wonder, like solo ask Juliet at one point, if she was allowed to read

[00:48:15] growing up, she said, no.

[00:48:17] And he's a go, that's too bad.

[00:48:18] I wonder if, for example, solo was allowed to read in silo 17 or other silos there.

[00:48:25] Yeah.

[00:48:26] Yeah.

[00:48:27] I wouldn't, I wonder that.

[00:48:28] I wonder that too.

[00:48:29] And is it just, is it just, are the servers treated the same, are the servers treated the

[00:48:37] same way as the legacy, i.e. that only the head of IT and their shadow can access them

[00:48:44] or are they open to a slightly wider circle of people within IT?

[00:48:49] Um, because I imagine it would be the latter because there's probably stuff related to the

[00:48:57] design and operation of the silo on those servers that other people, even if they don't

[00:49:05] have access to like the complete record might need to know to keep the silo running.

[00:49:12] Well, yeah.

[00:49:13] I mean, obviously they, they use the computers, but we see that only Lucas and Bernard get

[00:49:19] full access to everything on them.

[00:49:21] Yeah.

[00:49:23] I do think it's rather shitty of Lucas to say that the family is no help.

[00:49:28] Quinn's legacy of failure continues.

[00:49:30] Like what knows you who failed to treat them like people, Lucas hashtag.

[00:49:36] Where's my Lucas?

[00:49:37] The poor guy's just frustrated.

[00:49:39] That's a puzzle and he's this close to solving it.

[00:49:43] But where's that goofball energy from when he was courting Juliet in season one?

[00:49:49] Tell me corny things about smiles.

[00:49:53] Yes.

[00:49:53] Well, he's, he's, he's, he's becoming Darth Lucas.

[00:49:58] Well, speaking of the Darth title, Camille played by Alexandria Riley.

[00:50:04] She later approaches Amundsen in the cafeteria, ready to take him on a little guilt trip

[00:50:09] down memory lane to the time Amundsen and his now wife came over for dinner.

[00:50:14] A rare privilege when Rob was boss and a first.

[00:50:18] She gently reminds him he's about to have a child, but she's afraid for their children

[00:50:23] in the current political climate of the silo.

[00:50:26] She agrees with Amundsen that the, as he puts it, greasers from the down deep aren't making

[00:50:32] anything easier.

[00:50:33] But the source of the issues is really IT.

[00:50:36] Like what's up with the miner being made shadow of the head there?

[00:50:40] People up and down the silo are having doubts.

[00:50:43] She says Rob just wants to help the silo, preventing them all from dying.

[00:50:48] He needs Amundsen to find out what Lucas is up to.

[00:50:52] Just this one thing, she says.

[00:50:54] That's all he's asking.

[00:50:56] After all, none of them swore their oaths to Bernard.

[00:51:00] They swore their oaths to the silo.

[00:51:02] Amundsen walks away without making any commitments.

[00:51:06] I've got to say, like, did it just, did it strike you that this is, this is not Camille at her best?

[00:51:14] This is like some B tier emotional manipulation.

[00:51:17] Yeah, it was, it was very obvious, very sort of laying it on the stick.

[00:51:23] Okay.

[00:51:25] Oh, because I mean, I think she understands that different people need to be manipulated differently.

[00:51:31] And Amundsen needs the honey.

[00:51:34] Okay.

[00:51:35] Okay.

[00:51:35] But she, she was reminding me of, um, the wheel of time has the, there's a group of bad guys there called the forsaken.

[00:51:42] And my favorite forsaken, she, her saying is softly, softly from the shadows.

[00:51:48] And Camille is being very Mogetian, softly, softly from the shadows.

[00:51:52] But yeah, I mean, the way she's like menacingly, like blocking his escape and stuff, uh, like, oh, I'm just going to nice you to death, but you're not getting away from me.

[00:52:01] Yeah.

[00:52:02] And I mean, and I mean, who am I to argue?

[00:52:05] Because it works.

[00:52:06] Amundsen later in the episode does do what she was asking him to do, but I thought, I thought she would, and let's face it, this is Amundsen.

[00:52:14] So maybe, maybe subtlety is not the way to go, but I thought this was, this was laying it on, this was laying it on a little bit thick.

[00:52:22] Hmm.

[00:52:23] Hmm.

[00:52:23] Yeah.

[00:52:24] I love the detail that Camille drinks black coffee.

[00:52:27] I drink my coffee black too.

[00:52:28] What about you?

[00:52:29] I don't drink very much.

[00:52:31] I don't really drink coffee.

[00:52:32] Okay.

[00:52:33] Fair, fair.

[00:52:34] Tea?

[00:52:35] Tea, yeah.

[00:52:36] With milk.

[00:52:37] With milk.

[00:52:37] Okay.

[00:52:39] Um, Amundsen, apparently his wife's name is Marcy.

[00:52:42] I wonder if we're ever going to meet Marcy.

[00:52:44] I would, I would, I would love to meet Mrs. Amundsen because.

[00:52:48] I'm curious.

[00:52:49] I have questions.

[00:52:50] Yeah.

[00:52:50] What was that relationship be like?

[00:52:53] I mean, he's a good looking guy that's, you know, and I'm sure.

[00:52:56] Yeah, I suppose.

[00:52:58] He's very sort of square jawed, I guess.

[00:53:00] He's just, he's just a fly in the spider's web.

[00:53:04] Um, but he, okay.

[00:53:05] So Amundsen, he's more afraid of Bernard than he is of Rob, but is he more afraid of Bernard

[00:53:12] than he is of Camille?

[00:53:15] Hmm.

[00:53:19] I'm getting, I mean, based on the evidence of this episode, you'd have to say no.

[00:53:24] Yeah.

[00:53:25] Cause he does do what Camille asked him to do.

[00:53:27] Right.

[00:53:28] He wasn't about to listen to Rob, but yeah.

[00:53:30] Yeah.

[00:53:31] Yeah.

[00:53:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:53:33] I was, I was wondering though, will it ever be just one thing with favors from the family

[00:53:37] Sims?

[00:53:38] But then I was also thinking about Bernard later with Martha and I'm like, Bernard's worse.

[00:53:42] Once again, Bernard's worse.

[00:53:44] Yeah.

[00:53:45] Yeah.

[00:53:46] Well, so Sims later gets a message from Amundsen out of the blue, who says he's thinking of

[00:53:52] the time Sims came to his father's funeral.

[00:53:54] And he thinks about that apple tree planted on his grave.

[00:53:57] So basically the translation of this is for all Lang Syne.

[00:54:00] He'll do this one favor, just meet him by the apple tree on his father's grave.

[00:54:04] So Rob goes to meet him and Amundsen, uh, Amundsen tells him he ran a track and trace on Lucas

[00:54:11] and that after Lucas left Meadows apartment, he went to go see someone in the lower mids,

[00:54:18] a Terrence Pembroke.

[00:54:19] And he was looking for a book that belonged to Salvador Quinn and he went to see Bernard,

[00:54:24] but that's it.

[00:54:26] He's done helping Sims behind Bernard's back.

[00:54:28] If Sims would kindly tell his wife to stand down.

[00:54:31] So I get the sense Sims probably didn't know Camille went to see Amundsen.

[00:54:38] How do you think Sims feels about that this time?

[00:54:42] Um, I mean, this is not, this is not, um, Camille going behind, going behind, um,

[00:54:50] Rob's back.

[00:54:51] This is Camille working towards the same end.

[00:54:56] Um, so I, I don't, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think Judge Sims

[00:55:00] is going to be too annoyed.

[00:55:02] Um, I think it, I think it might, I think it might, if, if, if this sort of pattern where

[00:55:08] Camille succeeds and he fails sort of keeps up, that might start to rankle a little bit

[00:55:15] after a while.

[00:55:16] But I think for now we're okay.

[00:55:20] Yeah.

[00:55:22] Yeah.

[00:55:23] Um, we also learned that Amundsen's father was a nasty bastard who now feeds bitter apples.

[00:55:30] Do you think Amundsen senior also works in judicial?

[00:55:34] Uh, I think he did work in judicial.

[00:55:36] Yeah.

[00:55:37] Yeah.

[00:55:38] I, I do wonder, I guess it's probably the same, uh, as in the books where often people

[00:55:43] just pass down their jobs to their children.

[00:55:46] Basically.

[00:55:47] Like you were saying with the executioners, but in general.

[00:55:51] No.

[00:55:52] Um, when he says he tracked and traced Lucas, do, do we think that just means with the cameras

[00:55:58] or is he like tagged somewhere?

[00:56:00] Seems like he also could hear what he was saying.

[00:56:03] Cause he knew about the stuff.

[00:56:04] Yeah.

[00:56:04] Yeah.

[00:56:06] So possibly with the cameras and then having a listener stand like discreetly by the entrance

[00:56:15] of them.

[00:56:16] But no, cause if they were doing that.

[00:56:18] I mean, I think the cameras just have sound.

[00:56:20] Yeah.

[00:56:22] But, but here's the interesting thing.

[00:56:23] Well, we know that cameras have sound cause we saw George recorded on them.

[00:56:27] Yeah.

[00:56:28] Didn't he speak?

[00:56:28] Anyway.

[00:56:29] Yes.

[00:56:29] But here's the interesting thing.

[00:56:31] What happens when Bernard finds out he's done that?

[00:56:36] Cause Bernard didn't ask him to do it.

[00:56:39] Will Bernard find out?

[00:56:42] Who knows?

[00:56:42] Only if Sims tells him, right?

[00:56:45] Well, no, because maybe, but not if he, if he's using the cameras, then presumably Bernard

[00:56:51] has access to the, the, the, the metadata of who's looking at what camera when.

[00:56:58] Hmm.

[00:56:59] If, if he goes to look at that.

[00:57:01] Yeah.

[00:57:02] Or if they record that.

[00:57:04] Yeah.

[00:57:04] It's a good question.

[00:57:05] Or did he ask people in the watchers room to look?

[00:57:08] I don't know.

[00:57:08] Yeah.

[00:57:09] Yeah.

[00:57:11] Although.

[00:57:11] So for all the making fun of Amundsen for being dumb,

[00:57:14] and we do, by the way, he did realize that Lucas doesn't actually know what he's looking

[00:57:18] for.

[00:57:19] So he's not completely clueless.

[00:57:21] Yeah.

[00:57:21] And now he's, he's a, he's a, he's a judicial goon, but he's, he's a slight, he's a slightly

[00:57:27] higher class.

[00:57:28] He's a grade A, he's a grade A goon.

[00:57:31] The guys before were like grade B, maybe grade C goons.

[00:57:37] Gotcha.

[00:57:39] Yeah.

[00:57:39] Um, so, uh, Lucas, he goes back to the Pembroke family to apologize for his earlier behavior

[00:57:46] and ask for help the nice way.

[00:57:48] And he says he's from the lower mids like them and locked into this new high status job.

[00:57:54] He admits he was getting too big for his britches.

[00:57:57] Uh, but Salvador Quinn, their ancestor really was something special, a hero who saved the silo,

[00:58:04] though he can't say how or why.

[00:58:06] Jocelyn says judge Meadows said the same when she came to see them.

[00:58:10] What seems to have been, I'm guessing 25 years ago.

[00:58:13] It was before Brandon was born, at least before she became judge.

[00:58:17] And she was looking for books like Lucas and said they wouldn't get into trouble if they

[00:58:22] were relics.

[00:58:23] She would exchange two books she had for one of theirs, Salvador's copy of the pact.

[00:58:29] So yay.

[00:58:30] Collecting my internet points.

[00:58:31] Cha-ching.

[00:58:32] Cha-ching.

[00:58:32] Cha-ching.

[00:58:33] But I'm not sure the timeline of that adds up because Jocelyn would have been a, Jocelyn

[00:58:38] would have been a tiny, Jocelyn would have been a very young.

[00:58:43] So I think Jocelyn is Brandon's mother.

[00:58:47] So.

[00:58:47] Yeah.

[00:58:48] So if Brandon's about 20, Jocelyn's probably in her 40s.

[00:58:52] I think that tracks.

[00:58:53] Okay.

[00:58:54] Okay.

[00:58:55] I thought Jocelyn looks a little bit younger than that, but yeah.

[00:58:58] She does look young.

[00:58:59] Yeah.

[00:58:59] At first I thought she could have been his wife, but then when she, the way they were

[00:59:02] talking, I was like, no, she's his mother.

[00:59:04] Yeah.

[00:59:05] Or yeah.

[00:59:06] Yeah.

[00:59:07] Mother.

[00:59:07] And then his father is the son of Terrence.

[00:59:12] Yeah.

[00:59:12] But his father wasn't there for some reason.

[00:59:15] Yeah.

[00:59:15] So.

[00:59:17] Yeah.

[00:59:17] I guess we're getting closer to an answer as to where Meadows disappeared to for four days

[00:59:22] all those years ago.

[00:59:23] And why at least.

[00:59:24] Yes.

[00:59:25] I mean, obviously it doesn't account for the whole four days, but it accounts for a portion

[00:59:30] of it.

[00:59:30] By the way, I looked at this several times and I couldn't work it out.

[00:59:35] Do you have any idea what the book was that Meadows traded for the pack?

[00:59:41] No, there were two of them, but we never get a good look.

[00:59:44] And then, you know, the first time I watched, I thought Lucas took them when he left.

[00:59:48] I was like, Dick, you know, that's not the book you read now.

[00:59:51] But the AD set me straight.

[00:59:53] The audio description.

[00:59:54] The second time I watched, he left those books behind.

[00:59:56] So I'm like, okay.

[00:59:57] Because I watched, I watched that scene like multiple times and I, I couldn't, I couldn't

[01:00:03] decipher what.

[01:00:05] I paused and I tried like just inching through and they do not show us what books they are.

[01:00:10] But let's assume, I don't know.

[01:00:12] Not the Wizard of Oz, obviously.

[01:00:14] Anyway, if it was important, they would have, if it was important, they would have let us

[01:00:18] know.

[01:00:19] Right.

[01:00:20] Yeah.

[01:00:20] Maybe it's, was it Solo was really into 20,000 leagues under the sea.

[01:00:24] Maybe it's that.

[01:00:25] Yeah.

[01:00:25] Yeah.

[01:00:26] Um, and Jocelyn, she asks if it's true, uh, as Lucas is leaving, she asks if it's true.

[01:00:33] Meadows was murdered by a couple of mechanicals and Lucas, he's noncommittal about it, uh,

[01:00:38] which I'm thankful for.

[01:00:39] And he says, that's what people are saying, but I don't know.

[01:00:43] And he sounds, he sounds doubtful to me.

[01:00:45] Do you think he's thinking about Juliet when he kind of half defends her people like this?

[01:00:51] Yeah.

[01:00:51] Yeah.

[01:00:52] And also like, he may be sort of inching towards Bernard's world, but he's not been completely

[01:00:58] IT brained yet.

[01:01:00] Um, so like, yeah, he's not, he's not like absorbed Bernard's worldview.

[01:01:07] And yeah, I think he was partially thinking about Juliet in that moment.

[01:01:12] Yeah.

[01:01:13] Yeah.

[01:01:14] Sorry.

[01:01:14] Just, just to, just to backtrack slightly.

[01:01:17] I see.

[01:01:17] I think you think that speech is Lucas being genuine.

[01:01:21] I'm a bit more cynical about it.

[01:01:23] I think, I think that's him realizing he's not going to get what he wants by threatening

[01:01:31] them.

[01:01:32] That's why I think it is just the case of, like I said earlier, him realizing that he's

[01:01:36] going to catch more flies with honey, um, than with vinegar.

[01:01:39] Cause that speech to me sounded practice.

[01:01:43] It sounded rehearsed.

[01:01:45] It didn't sound like something Lucas would spontaneously say.

[01:01:51] Okay.

[01:01:51] You think why he was quite smooth when we saw him in season one talking to Juliet and stuff.

[01:01:56] Yeah.

[01:01:57] But, but the, this was this like the whole sort of way it was set up of him appealing

[01:02:05] to, you know, class solidarity.

[01:02:08] Yeah.

[01:02:09] No, it just, it just struck me as a memory.

[01:02:12] Maybe I'm wrong.

[01:02:13] Maybe I'm just being too cynical, but it struck me as like a memorized calculated speech rather

[01:02:19] than him being genuine.

[01:02:22] Okay.

[01:02:22] Okay.

[01:02:24] Well, uh, Lucas goes back to Meadows apartment, finds the copy of the pact that he just looked

[01:02:30] over on his previous visit and he looks inside the cover and sure enough, it's signed Salvador

[01:02:35] Quinn using the code and page 77 of that book gets him nowhere until he notices that some

[01:02:41] of the letters on that page are underlined.

[01:02:43] When he strings them together, it tells him to proceed 20 paces forward plus two.

[01:02:48] So he turns 22 pages forward to page 99 and then he can use the code to give him something

[01:02:56] that's not gibberish.

[01:02:57] And he finds the message.

[01:02:58] If you've gotten this far, you already know the game is rigged.

[01:03:03] So I guess that's why I was wondering at first, like, why does it have to be that version of

[01:03:09] the packs?

[01:03:09] Aren't they all the same?

[01:03:10] But I guess it's because Salvador underlined those letters on page 77 himself.

[01:03:14] And it's a start of a sort of scavenger hunt for his own family.

[01:03:18] And now we've got a new clue.

[01:03:20] So the new clue, if you've gotten this far, you already know the game is rigged.

[01:03:25] Where do we think the scavenger hunt's going to lead our Lucas next?

[01:03:28] I have no idea.

[01:03:30] But what's interesting is, if what Bernard is saying is the whole truth about Salvador

[01:03:36] Quinn, and I don't think that it is because of what I'm about to say next, why would you

[01:03:41] go to all that trouble of cutting off the citizens of the silo from their own history and then

[01:03:49] drugging them to make them forget their own recent past?

[01:03:53] And then leave a message behind you for people to find.

[01:04:01] Like, there is clearly, like, I'm not saying what Bernard said isn't accurate, but it's

[01:04:07] clearly not the whole story.

[01:04:10] Because if it were, then this whole code thing makes no sense.

[01:04:18] Right.

[01:04:19] Okay.

[01:04:19] Yeah.

[01:04:20] Yeah.

[01:04:21] No, you make a good point.

[01:04:22] And then a part of me wonders, in that case, what if he left the message behind for himself?

[01:04:28] Yes.

[01:04:28] Because he knew he was going to lose his memory.

[01:04:30] Yeah.

[01:04:31] Because he was drinking the same water as everybody else.

[01:04:34] Mm-hmm.

[01:04:35] Yeah.

[01:04:36] Yeah.

[01:04:37] As far as where Lucas will physically go next, I have an idea from the trailer, but we promise

[01:04:42] not to talk about the trailer during these episodes anymore.

[01:04:44] So just people who've watched the trailer.

[01:04:46] Yeah.

[01:04:47] I don't know.

[01:04:47] Thinking about that.

[01:04:49] Or people who listen to our breakdown, at least, I should say.

[01:04:52] Yeah.

[01:04:52] Um, so Sims walks up as Lucas is leaving Meadow's apartment and proves Terrence Pembroke's point

[01:05:01] about what real menace looks like.

[01:05:04] But I'm Bernard's shadow doesn't seem to work on Sims.

[01:05:07] And Sims pulls out the pact from Salvador Quinn, only he doesn't look inside.

[01:05:13] And Lucas plays dumb and says he was just playing fetch and he doesn't know what it's for.

[01:05:17] And he implies that, you know, maybe it's just because it's a personal item of Mary's and

[01:05:21] Bernard wants it as a keepsake or something.

[01:05:24] And so Sims decides it's time to play good cop with Lucas.

[01:05:28] And he warns Lucas that Bernard will turn on him once he gets what he needs from him.

[01:05:33] And he tells Lucas that when he needs a friend sometime soon, Sims can be that friend to him.

[01:05:39] And it'd be a shame if something happened to Lucas's pretty little face and all that.

[01:05:45] But like, I don't, by the way, I don't think that's true.

[01:05:50] I don't think, I don't think Bernard will turn on Lucas because the fact is Bernard needs,

[01:05:57] the fact is Bernard needs a shadow.

[01:05:59] Yeah.

[01:06:00] He needs, he needs, ultimately, he is going to have to hand over the knowledge that IT,

[01:06:06] you know, the head of IT possesses to somebody.

[01:06:11] And, you know, people with the necessary intelligence and imagination, you know,

[01:06:20] that he's talked about in earlier episodes, you know, don't grow on trees.

[01:06:25] Right.

[01:06:25] In the silo because they're living in a society that for all sorts of reasons that we've talked about

[01:06:33] really since episode one, season one, you know, discourages people from asking questions.

[01:06:41] Right.

[01:06:42] And so, like, it's taken Bernard 25 years to find Lucas, you know,

[01:06:49] from the point at which Mary Meadows stopped being a shadow.

[01:06:51] It's taken him 25 years to find somebody that he thinks can plausibly do that role.

[01:06:58] And, you know, Bernard's not a, he's not ancient, but he's not a, he's not a young guy.

[01:07:03] He's not a young guy anymore.

[01:07:06] Right.

[01:07:06] So he is going to have to.

[01:07:07] Dangerous things afoot, yeah.

[01:07:08] Yeah, he is going to have to hand the torch on somebody.

[01:07:11] And I don't think he, like, he doesn't have the same feelings for Lucas that he did for Mary, obviously.

[01:07:18] But I think he kind of likes Lucas, or at the very least he respects him.

[01:07:24] Mm-hmm.

[01:07:25] No, I think, I think you're right about all that.

[01:07:27] But at the same time, we saw with Mary, someone who he had, you know, more than respect for, it seems.

[01:07:33] Um, and he was willing to kill her when he got too scared.

[01:07:38] And we've seen this behavior with Bernard.

[01:07:40] He'll destroy something out of fear before he even, like, answers the questions that, you know,

[01:07:46] gets the answers to questions that hard drive or that person or whatever might have.

[01:07:50] So I think you're, I think you're right.

[01:07:53] But I think that he could short-sightedly turn on Lucas just because.

[01:07:57] But, but this is, this is the thing.

[01:08:00] I don't, I think Lucas has the intelligence and the imagination that Mary Maddow has,

[01:08:06] but he doesn't have, he doesn't have the courage.

[01:08:10] Um, that she did.

[01:08:12] Yeah.

[01:08:13] And also.

[01:08:14] She has the most backbone out of anyone in the silo, pretty much.

[01:08:17] Except Juliet.

[01:08:18] And like, one of the things we know about Lucas is he is, he is a survivor.

[01:08:23] Mm-hmm.

[01:08:24] Um, that's kind of one of his, you know, that's one of the cornerstones of his character.

[01:08:29] Yeah.

[01:08:30] Yeah.

[01:08:31] Mm-hmm.

[01:08:32] Well, so what do you think Lucas is thinking about Bernard and Sims at this moment?

[01:08:38] Who do you think he trusts less right now?

[01:08:41] Oh, Sims.

[01:08:42] Yeah, I guess.

[01:08:44] Yeah.

[01:08:44] He has no reason to.

[01:08:45] He's just like, I, all you've ever done is yell at me.

[01:08:48] And now you're going to be my friend.

[01:08:50] And also like when Sims does the, yeah, your mother is a nurse on, in the, the hospice on 86.

[01:08:58] It's like, if I was Lucas in that moment, I would just have turned around and gone, I'm the shadow.

[01:09:03] I'm the shadow to the head of IT.

[01:09:05] I don't, that would have been the wrong move with Sims though.

[01:09:08] I could do, I could do very nasty things to you.

[01:09:11] I could do very.

[01:09:14] I mean, I, he tried that on Sims and it didn't work.

[01:09:17] That was the first thing he tried.

[01:09:18] I'm Bernard Shadow in Sims is like, okay, pipsqueak, give me that book.

[01:09:22] Give me your lunch money.

[01:09:24] But it's like, but it's like, yeah, you may, you may, you may be the bigger guy Sims, but

[01:09:29] you see this, this is why, this is why I think Sims, this is why I think Robert Sims is heading for a fall.

[01:09:36] Because he's still acting like he's the head of judicial.

[01:09:40] He's still acting like he is.

[01:09:43] Pardon?

[01:09:44] On paper, he is.

[01:09:46] On paper, he is.

[01:09:47] But in practice, he's not, he hasn't gotten it through his head yet that he is a figurehead.

[01:09:55] And that actually, like, he's just like able to manipulate, because he isn't able to manipulate Amundsen.

[01:10:04] It's Camille that does that.

[01:10:06] Um, I like Sims has not got it through his head yet that he doesn't actually, that he doesn't actually have power anymore.

[01:10:15] Well, I mean, yeah.

[01:10:18] I mean, I think he, he has a good point in that, in something that Camille was gunning for before she decided to switch sides and be like, not Bernard.

[01:10:27] Um, but he, you know, because he has power on paper, he can exercise that to a certain degree and get away with it.

[01:10:36] It's just about butting heads with, with Bernard.

[01:10:39] But I think Lucas is smart enough.

[01:10:42] You know, Sims is straight out, like Sims did not respond to his first initial, like, I'm the shadow of Bernard.

[01:10:49] And, um, and he's basically like, your mom works in hospice care, huh?

[01:10:53] Be real shame if she had to have you as a patient.

[01:10:56] Have her own son as a patient.

[01:10:58] Like, damn.

[01:10:59] And I think Lucas realizes that, um, by trying to pull rank in that situation, it just puts him in more physical danger with this particular person who is especially disinclined to hate.

[01:11:14] He doesn't even understand how much, why Sims hates that Lucas has this job that he wants.

[01:11:20] He doesn't even know that part.

[01:11:22] Let's put it this way.

[01:11:24] If I'm the, if I'm the, the, the shadow to the head of IT and Sims comes and does that to me, I'm, I'm putting, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm making sure that, um, I'm paying very close attention to where Anthony Sims, the son is, you know, at all times.

[01:11:42] Because you threaten, you threaten me.

[01:11:44] I can, you threaten me.

[01:11:45] I'm not threatening your son.

[01:11:48] I have a good deal more power.

[01:11:51] Even if he is growing up to be like his father.

[01:11:52] I have a good deal more power than you do right now.

[01:11:54] Oh, I'm not threatening somebody's kid.

[01:11:56] I can't.

[01:11:57] And that's, yeah.

[01:11:58] Well, that's why I would end up like Mary Meadows.

[01:12:03] But I do, you know, so Sims, he says to Lucas, Bernard will always be four moves ahead of you.

[01:12:09] But I think that is way more true of Sims than it is for Lucas.

[01:12:13] Yeah.

[01:12:13] Yeah.

[01:12:14] Because this is the other thing.

[01:12:15] I think Sims, Robert Sims, he overestimates his own intelligence.

[01:12:20] Right.

[01:12:21] And he doesn't even know what Lucas is made of.

[01:12:24] I can understand from, from his perspective.

[01:12:26] He's like, why the hell would you make that random guy who was supposed to go to the mines?

[01:12:30] Yeah.

[01:12:31] And Bernard says about curiosity, but I think you can't truly understand something that you never really had yourself.

[01:12:37] Yeah.

[01:12:38] Yeah.

[01:12:40] Yeah.

[01:12:40] All right.

[01:12:41] Well, this is a good moment to pause.

[01:12:43] And when we come back, we're going to talk about Billing's big secret, Bernard's big bad blackmail, and what's going on in silo 17.

[01:12:50] Be right back.

[01:12:54] All right.

[01:12:55] So Kathleen, so Kathleen, Caitlin Zaz is still nursing Patrick, Rick Gomez back to health, and she's making him drink some disgusting concoction.

[01:13:04] And I was frustrated.

[01:13:06] She didn't tell us what this quote unquote old recipe passed down from generation to generation since maybe before, you know, the before times.

[01:13:14] She didn't tell us what it is.

[01:13:16] Do you think it's something we'd recognize?

[01:13:19] Like, I don't know.

[01:13:21] Like something like a, like a, like a sort of very primitive antibiotic or something like that?

[01:13:27] Yeah, maybe.

[01:13:27] I don't know.

[01:13:28] Why?

[01:13:29] Yeah.

[01:13:29] Why not just tell us what it is, but some bitter concoction.

[01:13:32] We know she does the herbs.

[01:13:34] It tastes like my brother's armpit.

[01:13:36] I'm not going to ask her, you know, what your brother's armpit is.

[01:13:42] It tastes different from his own armpit?

[01:13:44] Yeah.

[01:13:45] Anyway, Patrick says Kathleen and Paul sure do seem to know a lot about the before times with Paul showing him that page from the Georgia guidebook and all with the pictures of the mountains.

[01:13:56] And he asks her what she thought of it.

[01:13:58] And she pretends to have seen it, but Patrick doesn't look fooled.

[01:14:02] And when Paul gets home, Kathleen is dripping with disappointment.

[01:14:05] She asks her husband about the page.

[01:14:08] How could he tell someone else a secret he would keep from her for any reason?

[01:14:12] He can't protect her.

[01:14:14] They're a family and they need to share all their secrets.

[01:14:17] She pushes him to show her the page and they cry over the lost world of before together.

[01:14:23] So now just saying Kathleen is 100% right here.

[01:14:26] Do you agree?

[01:14:27] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:14:28] But when Patrick says you and your husband know a lot about the before times, you really want to sit and say play over the top of that.

[01:14:40] Because he's not doing it on purpose.

[01:14:44] He assumes that she's seen the page.

[01:14:48] Right.

[01:14:49] And it's like, yeah, like you say, he's not at all convinced that she has.

[01:14:54] But it's like, oh, I've said more than I should.

[01:14:58] Right.

[01:14:59] Yeah.

[01:15:00] But also, Caitlin Zos definitely gets the acting MVP for this episode, for that scene.

[01:15:07] And the one that follows.

[01:15:10] There are so many of these characters that are not the main characters.

[01:15:17] But they give so much depth to the show.

[01:15:21] And they are like proper characters.

[01:15:25] They're not just NPCs that stuff happens to advance the plot.

[01:15:32] I think this is like a real strength of the writing of Silo.

[01:15:38] And I presume the book as well.

[01:15:40] Because it would have to be based on something.

[01:15:44] But I love the fact that all these side characters feel real.

[01:15:49] Even though they're not the center of the action.

[01:15:55] I mean, yeah.

[01:15:56] The book is like the show.

[01:15:58] It's an ensemble story.

[01:15:59] But I do think that one thing where the show is really added is a lot of these side characters.

[01:16:05] Like Billings.

[01:16:06] Paul, well, he's called Peter Billings in the book.

[01:16:08] But I guess they changed it because they didn't want Peter Nichols and Peter Billings.

[01:16:11] But anyway, Billings is in the book.

[01:16:14] But we don't know about his home life.

[01:16:16] So they really.

[01:16:17] And the same with Sims.

[01:16:18] So they've really added a lot to the main characters by giving these fully fleshed out other characters and their orbits.

[01:16:27] And, you know, all these interactions.

[01:16:30] I also think it's really interesting to compare.

[01:16:33] You know, so we recently had where Sims was confronting his wife about similar things.

[01:16:40] About going behind his back and lying to him about something.

[01:16:42] And you can just see the response between them.

[01:16:45] You know, the differences in the response between the way Paul responds to Kathleen and Camille responds to to Rob.

[01:16:55] And I can't help but feel that Paul and Kathleen actually do have a more solid foundation, which is not what I thought about their relationship last season.

[01:17:04] So especially in the back half of the season, they really turned around my perception of Kathleen and their relationship.

[01:17:11] Okay.

[01:17:14] Well, moving on to the big bad Bernard and his blackmail.

[01:17:16] Well, so at the beginning of the episode, there was this tiny scene where Bernard, Tim Robbins, of course, is skulking around the silo and he ducks into a utilities closet.

[01:17:26] And we never see where that leads him.

[01:17:28] So I have the feeling like there might be some secret way to get around.

[01:17:34] Like this is how he secretly gets to the pump room later or something.

[01:17:37] What do you think the deal is with that utilities closet?

[01:17:39] Or does that just lead to the watcher room from another place?

[01:17:43] I think that just leads to the watcher room from another place.

[01:17:47] Hmm.

[01:17:48] I don't know.

[01:17:49] I'm curious.

[01:17:50] We'll see.

[01:17:51] We'll see.

[01:17:52] But yeah, later Bernard turns up in that pump room on 90 that Walker was summoned to fix.

[01:17:57] And it turns out it didn't really need fixing after all.

[01:18:01] Bernard says she turned her camera on so she must want to see him.

[01:18:06] Martha says it was a mistake.

[01:18:07] And Bernard says he was hoping they could negotiate.

[01:18:10] He says, yeah, I've I've I heard you wanted to see me.

[01:18:17] I've been assuming that audio does work in the cameras.

[01:18:19] And I think this is confirmation.

[01:18:21] I think we got a couple of pieces of confirmation.

[01:18:23] What do you think?

[01:18:24] Yeah.

[01:18:25] Yeah, I think it does.

[01:18:27] Um, um, Bernard tells Martha McClain is stubborn, but emphasizes her age and fertility.

[01:18:35] And Martha calls him out.

[01:18:36] He must be really desperate for information to be dicking around with two old ladies like this.

[01:18:41] And Bernard recites his mantra.

[01:18:43] I'm trying to save the silo and I'm forced to go to any lengths to do it.

[01:18:48] He says mechanical is going to get them all killed and he'll torture the hell out of Carla before he lets that happen.

[01:18:55] Unless Martha becomes a spy for him.

[01:18:58] So Luke, now you get your internet points.

[01:19:01] You totally called this.

[01:19:03] Yeah, I take no pleasure.

[01:19:05] I take no pleasure in this.

[01:19:07] Um, although this is, cause I actually think this whole scene moves Bernard possibly off the end of the Sims nerd scale.

[01:19:17] We're going to have to recalibrate the Sims nerd scale because it's just me or is Bernard taking like, there is something sadistic about the way Bernard is doing this.

[01:19:28] Like, yes, he is trying to save the silo from his point of view, but I think he's also quite enjoying himself.

[01:19:36] And that's a side to Bernard.

[01:19:38] I don't think we've seen before.

[01:19:40] And I think it's possibly because like, like Walker is, you know, Walker is not somebody who is easily intimidated.

[01:19:53] Um, and like Bernard is used to walking through life kind of automatically intimidating.

[01:20:00] Everybody around him just by who he is.

[01:20:04] So I think when he, when he can intimidate somebody like Walker, who is not naturally intimidated by him.

[01:20:11] I think that, I think he, I think he slightly gets, I think he kind of gets off on that.

[01:20:16] Hmm.

[01:20:17] Hmm.

[01:20:18] Yeah.

[01:20:19] But also like, I know this is Bernard and I know this is his inability to think outside the order.

[01:20:25] And I know it's like trying to imagine a color you've never seen, but like, what evidence does he have that mechanical are going to get them all killed?

[01:20:35] This is not, this is not, this is not silo 17.

[01:20:39] No one has said anything about opening the airlock.

[01:20:42] Exactly.

[01:20:43] Exactly.

[01:20:44] No one has said anything about opening the airlock.

[01:20:47] Mechanical just want to be treated with a little bit of respect.

[01:20:50] Mechanical just want to be treated with a little bit of respect.

[01:20:50] Yeah.

[01:20:51] Yeah.

[01:20:52] I think if he just released Carla, dropped the charges against Shirley and Knox, although I guess, how could he do that without admitting that he framed them?

[01:21:01] But, you know, if he could finagle a way to do that, he's, he's come up with crazier things.

[01:21:07] And then he just let them have regular supplies again.

[01:21:09] Wouldn't that just calm down this brewing rebellion?

[01:21:13] Yes.

[01:21:13] Like he is creating the thing he says he's trying to avoid.

[01:21:17] Yeah.

[01:21:18] And I guess that that happens a lot though, in real life though, don't you think?

[01:21:22] Yeah.

[01:21:23] But on some level, Bernard is too smart of a guy to on some level not realize that actually no one has said anything about opening the airlock.

[01:21:35] No one has said, the only, the only person that put the idea in people's heads of people going outside is Bernard.

[01:21:41] When he talks about the better tape.

[01:21:45] Right.

[01:21:46] So, I mean, I think from Bernard's point of view, as this goes on, this is less and less, this idea that he is doing it for the good of the silo is less and less plausible.

[01:21:59] Even in his own, even in his own, even if you accept his own like framing of the situation, this is more and more about I, Bernard Holland want to be in charge.

[01:22:12] And I don't like it when other people don't like it when I'm in charge.

[01:22:17] No.

[01:22:17] But I, I think there is also an aspect, I think you're right, but I think there's also an aspect of, you know, like I need to be in charge because nobody else gets it.

[01:22:28] Yeah.

[01:22:29] Yeah.

[01:22:30] Well.

[01:22:32] Well, so Martha seems to agree to the blackmail and presumably off screen.

[01:22:37] She gives him information about the planned medical supply break in.

[01:22:41] And in return, Martha gets to see Carla.

[01:22:44] She literally gets a glimpse of her unresponsive ex-wife through a slot and a door.

[01:22:49] And Bernard is now extending the agreement that Martha made to give her team up.

[01:22:55] Um, he says if she wants to keep Carla alive, Martha will continue to spy for him in the down deep.

[01:23:02] And she reluctantly angrily agrees.

[01:23:05] And he says others will be watching her to make sure she does this.

[01:23:09] And she's expected to keep her camera on and stay in her workshop.

[01:23:13] So yeah, now it's like Martha's being forced back into the agoraphobia.

[01:23:19] Yeah.

[01:23:20] Yeah.

[01:23:23] But I do wonder if, you know, now Martha at least has gotten to see where Carla is and she has like an idea of the layout of judicial.

[01:23:32] I wonder if that could be useful information in the future.

[01:23:36] Possibly.

[01:23:37] Yes.

[01:23:39] Bernard says he'll reunite Martha and Carla after the issues of quiet, quieted down.

[01:23:44] If she cooperates, what's the percentage chance that Bernard actually means this?

[01:23:48] Oh, 0.00000 repeating to like the nth degree.

[01:23:57] I feel like he even had this like shitty smug little smile when he said it too.

[01:24:02] And the other thing is, I am 99% sure that Martha knows that.

[01:24:07] Yeah.

[01:24:08] Yeah.

[01:24:09] But that 1% chance that, you know, in her mind that it could mean it.

[01:24:14] Or at least she just has to buy time.

[01:24:16] But then my question is like, I personally, I feel like Martha's gonna fess up sooner or later.

[01:24:24] She's not gonna keep this up.

[01:24:26] What do you think?

[01:24:26] I mean, yeah.

[01:24:27] I think, well, I don't know whether we want to talk about this in a minute, but I think Shirley already has like some.

[01:24:34] Yeah.

[01:24:35] Fake suspicion that everything is not okay with, everything's not okay with Martha.

[01:24:41] Yeah.

[01:24:42] Yeah.

[01:24:42] Yeah.

[01:24:42] Especially after this, the next conversation they have.

[01:24:46] So meanwhile, while this is going on, Teddy's team from the down deep uses ropes and grappling hooks to scale the stairway of the silo to medical supply where Amundsen and the judicial goons are waiting to arrest them having been tipped off.

[01:24:59] Thanks to Bernard's manipulations of Martha.

[01:25:01] So, yeah.

[01:25:02] So I guess the cameras are all out below 120.

[01:25:05] We know this.

[01:25:06] But medical supply is above that, right?

[01:25:09] So wouldn't they have been seen even without Martha's help?

[01:25:12] Like, wouldn't they be seen on the cameras in the central shaft in the silo?

[01:25:17] Yes.

[01:25:18] But without Martha's help, could all of those judicial goons have gotten there in time?

[01:25:24] No, it's true.

[01:25:25] That's true.

[01:25:26] They were waiting.

[01:25:28] Yeah.

[01:25:28] Yeah.

[01:25:29] So Martha goes back to her workshop and turns the camera back on and starts drinking and Shirley stops by to check on her.

[01:25:37] Shirley stops by to check on her and Martha lies about the pump repair.

[01:25:41] Shirley tells Martha that Teddy and the team were arrested and they don't know if anyone was hurt or worse.

[01:25:47] They can't figure out how the Raiders found out, but there must be a snitch somewhere down there.

[01:25:52] Walker is feeling all the guilt and self-disgust now, but plays it cool enough, starting to make casual mentions of it being too tense out there for her to venture out anymore.

[01:26:03] Martha ushers Shirley out, saying she's tired, but presumably also to prevent Shirley from saying anything else incriminating.

[01:26:09] And she gives the camera the finger and behind the monitors in the watchers room, Bernard smiles.

[01:26:15] Creepy little creepy dude.

[01:26:20] So yeah, I agree with you.

[01:26:21] I think that Shirley is already giving her looks like she's getting suspicious.

[01:26:25] What do you think will happen first?

[01:26:27] That Shirley will confront her or Martha will confess?

[01:26:31] I think Shirley will confront her and then Martha will confess.

[01:26:35] Okay.

[01:26:36] All right.

[01:26:36] All right.

[01:26:37] And now there's a really interesting point because at that point, do Mechanical then have a double agent?

[01:26:46] Well, that's, yeah, that's what I'm wondering.

[01:26:49] Is Martha going to become a double agent?

[01:26:51] Yeah.

[01:26:53] All right.

[01:26:53] Any other thoughts about Silo 18 before we switch to the other?

[01:26:57] Nope.

[01:26:59] Let's crack on to Silo 17.

[01:27:01] All right.

[01:27:02] So Juliet's not alone in Silo 17.

[01:27:05] Rebecca Ferguson, she picks up the hatchet that she found on the ground when she got out of the water and she begins to follow the trail of blood that ended the last episode looking for Solo.

[01:27:16] But then the pain kicks in, starting in her ears.

[01:27:19] It's the bends.

[01:27:20] Following Solo's advice from the last episode, she rigs a breathing tube to go down as far as possible.

[01:27:26] He said at least 20 feet.

[01:27:28] And she alternates between breathing through the tube and waiting for the pain wracking her body to subside until the air stops coming through the tube again.

[01:27:37] And she's forced to surface.

[01:27:38] Luckily, it seems it looks like she had been down there long enough.

[01:27:42] Right.

[01:27:42] She was like, yeah, she was not writhing as much anymore, at least.

[01:27:48] So when she gets out, someone's waiting for her looking menacing and backlighting.

[01:27:53] But she also looks menacing, wielding her little axe.

[01:27:56] And they tell her they killed that man and they'll kill her, too.

[01:28:00] If she doesn't go away, she doesn't believe them asking to talk to him.

[01:28:04] And the voice says he warned her as an arrow pierces her in the shoulder.

[01:28:10] And yeah.

[01:28:11] So Juliet, I think, is being kind of cold here.

[01:28:14] The man who took has something I need.

[01:28:16] I have to say this is one of the biggest book reader gripes.

[01:28:21] People are like, in the books, she helps Solo because she cared about him and she's a good person.

[01:28:26] Not because she needed something from him.

[01:28:29] Yeah, no, I thought that.

[01:28:30] I thought that.

[01:28:32] I think less of Juliet.

[01:28:36] Having watched this episode, she is now no longer a one on the Juliet to Simmsland scale.

[01:28:41] I'm moving her up to a two.

[01:28:43] That was really cold.

[01:28:48] She would have died of a gnarly infection in her arm if it wasn't for Solo.

[01:28:54] That's true.

[01:28:56] Yeah.

[01:28:56] She would have never gotten food, I guess.

[01:28:58] She would never have gotten food.

[01:29:01] Maybe, but yeah.

[01:29:03] She would never have been able to build the suit she's building without Solo's help.

[01:29:11] So I thought that was really...

[01:29:13] Yeah, no, I'm with the book readers on this.

[01:29:16] I thought that was unnecessarily cold off her.

[01:29:21] Mm-hmm.

[01:29:23] Yeah.

[01:29:25] Well, so we're going to learn shortly that this is kids.

[01:29:29] So I guess they're deepening their voice somehow, or one of them is like an older teen guy.

[01:29:33] So I guess maybe if he pitches his voice down here...

[01:29:39] Do we think Solo is dead?

[01:29:42] Do you think Solo is dead?

[01:29:44] No.

[01:29:45] Okay.

[01:29:48] How do you think that they, or at least one of them, knows archery?

[01:29:52] Because it doesn't seem like a practical sport for the silo.

[01:29:55] No.

[01:29:56] And even if it was...

[01:29:57] Like, I can imagine, okay, maybe they had archery practice, but why would they do that?

[01:30:03] But then still, like, the rebellion was more than 25 years ago, so before these kids were born.

[01:30:07] So how did they learn archery?

[01:30:09] That is a very good question.

[01:30:12] Mm-hmm.

[01:30:12] That is a very good question.

[01:30:14] And...

[01:30:15] I'm curious.

[01:30:16] Are these kids' parents out there somewhere as well?

[01:30:20] Because like you say...

[01:30:21] Do-do-do-do.

[01:30:21] Like you say, they haven't...

[01:30:24] They...

[01:30:25] They look as though they must have been born after the rebellion.

[01:30:29] Right.

[01:30:30] Yeah, and I have to say, the AD identifies them all as teenagers, which, yeah, tracks with what I thought.

[01:30:37] Yeah.

[01:30:39] So Juliet, after she gets pierced with the arrow, she cleans and patches up her shoulder and takes what are presumably...

[01:30:45] ...pain meds, and then she grabs a shield and a piece of rebar as a weapon and goes looking for Solo and his captors again.

[01:30:51] And she sees a body covered in a bloody sheet on a bridge, and she creeps over to check it.

[01:30:58] But then the body springs up, covered in armor so she can't see who it is, and attacks her with a club.

[01:31:03] And so Juliet defends herself and asks the figure to stop.

[01:31:06] And ultimately, Juliet pins the figure down and tears off the helmet,

[01:31:11] ...revealing what audio description confirms is a teenage girl.

[01:31:16] Just then, two other teens, older teens, round the stairs.

[01:31:20] A boy with a hatchet and a girl with a bow.

[01:31:22] And the girl says she put the arrow in Juliet's shoulder, and if Juliet makes one more move, she'll put the next in her heart.

[01:31:29] Cut to black.

[01:31:30] Thoughts, Luke?

[01:31:32] I mean, we've kind of assumed ever since episode one of season two that Solo was not the only person alive in Silo 17.

[01:31:44] Mm-hmm.

[01:31:45] But it is sort of...

[01:31:47] We now have confirmation that that is, in fact, the case.

[01:31:51] Mm-hmm.

[01:31:51] I'd like to know who these teenagers are.

[01:31:56] Mm-hmm.

[01:31:56] Because, I mean, it's not all that surprising that there are survivors, because if you think about...

[01:32:03] If you think about what we know about what happened in Silo 17, presumably not everybody wanted to go outside.

[01:32:12] Right.

[01:32:12] There was a civil war about it, so yeah, not everybody did, yeah.

[01:32:15] Yeah, there was a civil war.

[01:32:16] And given the sort of toxic nature of the air and the flooding, if you were a family in the upper mids in Silo 17, there is probably, I don't know, maybe a sort of 10-level sweet spot where you are low enough that the toxic air won't get you and the groundwater hasn't got you yet.

[01:32:42] Right.

[01:32:44] Yeah.

[01:32:44] And we know that there was a working farm.

[01:32:47] We saw Juliet get water from it in the first episode.

[01:32:50] Yeah.

[01:32:51] And it was not...

[01:32:52] The lights were on and it was growing things, so there's food about.

[01:32:56] Yeah, so, like, Silo 17 is a livable environment outside of the legacy bunker that Solo was living in.

[01:33:06] Yeah.

[01:33:07] Yeah, I mean, Juliet's been living out there for however we decided two weeks, yeah.

[01:33:12] Yeah.

[01:33:13] This is why I wanted...

[01:33:14] This is why I think it would be useful to know, like, how much time has passed.

[01:33:20] Yeah.

[01:33:21] So, I think the next question is, is Solo dead?

[01:33:25] I'm going to say no, but I'm not basing that on anything other than the fact that I don't really want him to be.

[01:33:31] It would be more interesting.

[01:33:32] Yeah, it would be more interesting if he were alive.

[01:33:35] Yeah, it would be sad for his character to go like that.

[01:33:38] Yeah.

[01:33:39] Yeah.

[01:33:40] So, is Solo alive?

[01:33:41] And have the kids managed to get into the legacy?

[01:33:46] Hmm.

[01:33:48] Yeah, I mean...

[01:33:49] Oh, because they have Solo now, you mean?

[01:33:52] Have they gotten in there now?

[01:33:53] Yeah.

[01:33:54] Yes.

[01:33:54] Hmm.

[01:33:56] Yeah.

[01:33:56] So, these are obviously...

[01:33:58] This is probably who cut Juliet's rope in episode one, indeed.

[01:34:03] Um...

[01:34:03] I do say, they're raising this...

[01:34:06] The kids, as they're introduced, they're raising questions for book readers.

[01:34:09] And I'm going to talk about it in this week's spoiler cast.

[01:34:11] But I do think I know the names of these three characters.

[01:34:15] And that will likely be confirmed next week.

[01:34:18] But I was wondering...

[01:34:21] Actually, Abby made me think of this last week.

[01:34:23] So, when Solo was worried that Juliet wasn't real, you know, he's like,

[01:34:28] Oh, I want you to eat this.

[01:34:30] So, I, you know, if I see you eat this, I know you're real.

[01:34:32] Um...

[01:34:33] I wonder if he saw these kids before and thought they weren't real.

[01:34:40] Yeah, possibly.

[01:34:43] Possibly.

[01:34:44] Hmm.

[01:34:45] Well...

[01:34:46] Yeah, and good point, Abby.

[01:34:48] Yeah.

[01:34:50] So, I did read an excerpt of the violent, but less violent than in the show.

[01:34:55] First meeting between these characters and the wool book breakdown in the book club.

[01:34:59] But, yeah, elements of that are still spoilery here at this point.

[01:35:04] So, we'll see what happens next week and if I can say more.

[01:35:07] Um...

[01:35:08] But as I said, yeah, the topic of this week's spoiler cast is...

[01:35:11] Uh...

[01:35:11] I did read the names and ages of the book version of these associated characters last week in the spoiler cast.

[01:35:18] We don't know if they're the same here.

[01:35:20] But this week, Abby and I are going to talk through who exactly these characters are, where they came from, and where their story goes from this point.

[01:35:29] Which, uh...

[01:35:30] In some cases goes to...

[01:35:31] It goes to the end of the TV show and likely beyond.

[01:35:34] Um...

[01:35:35] We're going to follow...

[01:35:37] Yeah, what happens there.

[01:35:39] Um...

[01:35:39] But Luke, how old do you think these three are?

[01:35:44] Between about 14 and 16?

[01:35:48] I mean, yeah.

[01:35:49] The...

[01:35:50] The two on the stairs, I thought, were like 18.

[01:35:53] That was my read.

[01:35:54] But they always get older actors to play younger characters, so I don't know.

[01:35:58] And then I thought the one on the stairs that Juliet pinned...

[01:36:02] I was guessing like 14, 15.

[01:36:05] Yeah.

[01:36:05] Yeah.

[01:36:06] Which would be aging up the associated characters, but I expected that to happen.

[01:36:12] Yeah.

[01:36:12] Because you can't really have like Rebecca Ferguson, like wrestling children.

[01:36:17] It just wouldn't look right.

[01:36:20] Yeah.

[01:36:20] Yeah, I guess so.

[01:36:21] And also, it's just easier to work with older kids and laws and stuff.

[01:36:27] And also acting-wise and school and blah, blah, blah.

[01:36:29] All that.

[01:36:30] Yeah.

[01:36:32] All right.

[01:36:33] And that brings us to the end of the episode.

[01:36:35] Any final thoughts on episode eight?

[01:36:39] The Book of Quinn.

[01:36:40] I'm just so relieved that Lucas had a shower and a change of clothes.

[01:36:45] We're all happy for him.

[01:36:46] It was causing me and Abby and several other people on Blue Sky a distinct amount of agita.

[01:36:52] So I'm glad that his personal hygiene issue has been dealt with.

[01:36:58] Yes.

[01:36:59] We definitely hear about that a little bit in the feedback, too.

[01:37:03] Yeah.

[01:37:03] People are happy.

[01:37:05] Um, what are your hopes for the final two episodes of this season?

[01:37:11] I want to see, I want to see, I want to see the denouement between Sims, Judge Sims and Bernard.

[01:37:19] Like, I said this in the preview, that one of them was going to try and kill the other.

[01:37:25] Everything that's happened in the series thus far has convinced me that that's more and more accurate.

[01:37:31] And it just feels like that that's...

[01:37:34] I don't want that to get dragged into series three.

[01:37:37] Mm-hmm.

[01:37:39] This feels like it's...

[01:37:41] Mm-hmm.

[01:37:41] It feels like it's building towards resolution.

[01:37:44] And I hope it gets there inside of series two.

[01:37:48] Mm-hmm.

[01:37:49] Well, wait.

[01:37:50] Which part do you want to resolve?

[01:37:53] Bernard...

[01:37:54] Um, basically, does Bernard kill Sims or does Sims kill Bernard?

[01:37:59] How does this...

[01:38:00] Okay.

[01:38:01] This power struggle, for want of a better phrase, how does it resolve itself?

[01:38:06] And if Juliet does make it back, how does she play into that?

[01:38:09] Yes, exactly.

[01:38:11] Yeah.

[01:38:12] Yeah.

[01:38:13] Um, I mean, obviously, I want to see that.

[01:38:15] I also...

[01:38:16] There are certain book elements from particularly Lucas and Martha that I'm waiting for those

[01:38:21] to kick in.

[01:38:22] I'm like, come on, don't be coy.

[01:38:25] So I'm hoping that that, uh, that that, yeah, comes into play.

[01:38:29] And, um, I want to know where Danny is.

[01:38:32] I didn't forget him.

[01:38:35] Danny, blah, you're out there.

[01:38:37] The other Scotty stand-in.

[01:38:38] Yeah.

[01:38:41] Oh.

[01:38:41] Like, I've just got this image now of Mechanical in, like, episode 10, staging a breakout for

[01:38:47] Carla and Danny's just hanging out somewhere in the back.

[01:38:50] They're just Danny, poor Danny, with a bag over his head.

[01:38:55] Right.

[01:38:55] I helped Juliet.

[01:38:57] Help me.

[01:38:58] Yeah.

[01:38:59] Um, all right.

[01:39:01] Well, two episodes left.

[01:39:03] Basically, two hours of television to get these, uh, hopefully get these questions

[01:39:08] answered.

[01:39:09] And we're going to do a final mailbag, uh, about a week after the finale.

[01:39:14] So you're going to get a mailbag from episode six through eight, very shortly after this episode,

[01:39:18] but then the final mailbag for especially episode seven and eight, about a week after

[01:39:23] the finale so that people have time to get their thoughts in.

[01:39:26] And yeah, we definitely want to hear your show thoughts and theories.

[01:39:30] Please email them to woolshiftdustpodcast at gmail.com.

[01:39:34] You'll find that link in the show notes.

[01:39:36] And if you send it to that email address, book spoilers are also welcome, but those will be

[01:39:40] included on the spoiler cast.

[01:39:43] Also do join us on Discord.

[01:39:44] We've got a dedicated forum with separate chats per episode and a book spoiler discussion

[01:39:48] as well.

[01:39:50] And of course, there's also the book club where supercast and Patreon subscribers get breakdowns

[01:39:55] of the silo books and short stories, season one spoiler rewatch, extra interviews with

[01:40:00] Hugh Howey with full book spoilers and weekly spoiler casts, plus additional episodes with

[01:40:05] extra seasonal specials, additional Howey book breakdowns, doom book breakdowns coming

[01:40:10] up after silo and, uh, yeah, just keeping that, uh, populated with, with extras book-based

[01:40:17] extras.

[01:40:18] And I would like to welcome new siloesins, Natalie W, Kale H, Catherine G, Will S, Becky

[01:40:25] Bullis, Drew Jordan, Brian C and Maggie, and new stories in the TCS who has been very active,

[01:40:34] fun and insightful in the discord.

[01:40:35] So glad to have you as a stories in that means that she has access to.

[01:40:40] Not only the silo feed, but also the extra star Wars Canon Padawan timeline feed.

[01:40:46] But if you're not interested in these extras, there is also the season pass option that allows

[01:40:51] you to just get the silo episodes for a one-time fee for season one in the books or season

[01:40:56] two or double season pass for both.

[01:40:58] You'll find links in the show notes with more information about all of that.

[01:41:02] Uh, but if you are not interested in any of that stuff, we're just glad you're listening.

[01:41:06] Thank you so much.

[01:41:08] And thank you so much to those of you who have been recommending this pod to other people.

[01:41:13] I've been hearing from, uh, both the recommenders and recommend these, and I just really appreciate

[01:41:18] that.

[01:41:19] And I really appreciate the positive reviews that people have been leaving.

[01:41:23] It just helps us so much, both in terms of motivation, but also in terms of, uh, you know,

[01:41:30] getting more ears on this podcast so that we can keep this party going.

[01:41:34] Yeah.

[01:41:35] Um, I, I, I'd associate myself with all of that.

[01:41:39] Um, thank you to all the people that have been, that I know have been following me on blue

[01:41:43] sky, um, as a result of this podcast.

[01:41:46] Um, so please swing by my mentions and say hi.

[01:41:51] Um, I, I tried to be a bit more active on the discord, but I'm not as active as I should

[01:41:57] be.

[01:41:57] So new year's resolution.

[01:41:59] You pop up now.

[01:42:00] Yeah.

[01:42:00] Gonna pop up on more on discord, but thank you for everybody that's following me on blue

[01:42:05] sky.

[01:42:05] I know that the vast majority of you are following me because of this podcast and it's been

[01:42:10] really nice.

[01:42:11] Those of you that have reached out and introduced yourself.

[01:42:14] It's been really nice to, to meet you virtually and to say hello.

[01:42:18] Yes.

[01:42:19] And you can find both of our links to both of our blue sky accounts in the show notes

[01:42:24] as well as the discord and everything else.

[01:42:26] And you'll also find their links to the other podcasts on our network, including parent podcast,

[01:42:31] the lore hounds where you'll find me there as well with lots of Marvel and DC coverage

[01:42:37] going on and coming up right now.

[01:42:39] Um, also a wicked one shot was recently released.

[01:42:42] We've got the, I get the coven quiz.

[01:42:44] Nosferatu is coming up shortly.

[01:42:46] And there was a new Simmerillion story out.

[01:42:50] There's just lots of things.

[01:42:51] Uh, that's the busiest feed you'll find the most stuff.

[01:42:54] So definitely recommend you subscribe there and also do check out my other podcasts, the

[01:42:59] star Wars Canon timeline podcast, uh, where I am now that things are under control with

[01:43:04] the other projects I was working on, uh, focusing full on there with next up, uh, star Wars visions

[01:43:11] with two episodes set during the high Republic and in the Canon Padawan feed stories.

[01:43:16] We'll get a special episode about Darth Nihilus.

[01:43:19] And then a bunch of episodes coming up about the high Republic stories and book recaps and also phase

[01:43:25] for, uh, the fall of the Jedi book and story recaps leading up to, you know, with backstories

[01:43:31] on characters like Qui-Gon, uh, leading up to the prequel trilogy.

[01:43:36] So it's going to be much busier over there in the coming months.

[01:43:40] Um, on the properly Howard feed, they're still doing there.

[01:43:43] A few good film series, radioactive ramblings just released their second Ghibli episode about

[01:43:49] spirited away.

[01:43:50] And they're also, they did arcane and they're doing red rising the book series, uh, nevermind

[01:43:56] the music combining music and psychology.

[01:43:58] And they just did a special episode for defying gravity from wicked.

[01:44:04] And, uh, yeah, I just really had to stop myself from not singing there.

[01:44:08] So you're welcome.

[01:44:10] And, uh, severance season two is beginning on Apple TV plus the same day that the silo season

[01:44:16] two finale airs.

[01:44:17] So do check out the separate severance feed or just look for severance lore hounds and you'll

[01:44:24] find it.

[01:44:24] And that's where the severance, uh, episode breakdowns are.

[01:44:27] You can catch up on season one.

[01:44:29] Season two is coming.

[01:44:30] And Luke, you what's up with, it could be said you had your end of year, multiple podcasts.

[01:44:35] No, I'm, I'm really sorry for anybody that's waiting for that.

[01:44:39] We've had, we've had umpteen problems trying to find a time when three people can record that

[01:44:46] we've been, I don't want to get into it cause it's right.

[01:44:49] I mean talking about personal issues, my cohost, but there's been a whole host of stuff that

[01:44:53] has prevented us from recording that.

[01:44:56] I believe the plan is we will record.

[01:44:59] We will record at least the first of those tomorrow, the fifth of the fifth of January.

[01:45:04] We haven't forgotten.

[01:45:06] We are, we are going to record it.

[01:45:08] I'm so sorry if people have been waiting, but circumstances beyond our control have like

[01:45:14] intervened massively and repeatedly.

[01:45:18] It happens.

[01:45:19] Yeah.

[01:45:20] Any final thoughts before we go?

[01:45:24] No, I just, I just really want to get onto watching episode.

[01:45:26] I just really want to get onto watching episode nine now.

[01:45:29] And now I can't.

[01:45:30] Okay.

[01:45:30] We've recorded this episode.

[01:45:32] But first we're going to record the mailbag episode through episode eight.

[01:45:37] Uh, so you'll get that in your feed in a couple of days.

[01:45:41] And then on Friday, you'll get episode nine drop.

[01:45:45] Uh, plus of course, a spoiler cast before that for silos and stories and season pass holders.

[01:45:50] So we'll see you back here for all that.

[01:45:52] Just try not to beat up any teenagers on your way home.