When is the right note actually a wrong note? This week, we’re burning down the highway skyline to The Killers’ 2006 anthem “When You Were Young.” Mark shares how this is one of those songs where are the melody seems to almost ignore the chord progression. Nichole connects those broken expectations to the narratives of uniqueness we build in our adolescent minds, and how those might change over time. Join us and dip your feet (every once in a little while).
Other music heard in this episode: Pixies - “Here Comes Your Man”, Aaron Neville - “Tell it Like it Us”, The Beatles - “A Hard Day’s Night”, Green Day - “Nice Guys Finish Last”, Soundgarden - “An Unkind”, Jimmy Eat World - “Clarity”, The Killers - “Somebody Told Me”, The Killers - “Spaceman”, The Killers - “Caution”, Bruce Springsteen - “Born to Run”, The Killers - “Human”, Snow Patrol - “How to Be Dead”, Tears for Fears - “Everybody Wants to Rule the World”, Daft Punk - “Lose Yourself to Dance (feat. Pharrell Williams)”, Weezer - “No One Else”, The Killers and Bruce Springsteen - “Born to Run”
Send us your thoughts at NeverMusicPod@gmail.com
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00:00 --> 00:00 [SPEAKER_04]: It's all dudes.
00:01 --> 00:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all dudes.
00:01 --> 00:02 [SPEAKER_04]: It's all dudes.
00:02 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_04]: They're harmony ignoring.
00:03 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: They love it.
00:04 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_00]: They love it famously.
00:05 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like all they ever talk about anymore.
00:07 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_04]: The killer is a very aggressive feels like a macho kind of band name too.
00:12 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're not that macho.
00:13 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
00:13 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
00:15 --> 00:16 [SPEAKER_04]: They're not that macho.
00:16 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_04]: They don't feel super macho.
00:18 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like Bruce Springsteen.
00:19 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me a break.
00:20 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
00:21 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Bruce has got heart to him though.
00:22 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But he's macho.
00:23 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I think play.
00:24 --> 00:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
00:26 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody's got a hungry heart.
00:27 --> 00:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's got a hungry heart.
00:29 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: That is that?
00:31 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dude.
00:45 --> 00:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you think it is?
00:49 --> 00:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not your name.
00:50 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for my Christian name.
00:51 --> 00:53 [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not actually.
00:53 --> 00:55 [SPEAKER_04]: I am just a Mark with a K hard stop.
00:56 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Hard stop.
00:57 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_04]: What do you think Nicole of sustained weird chords starting off a song?
01:02 --> 01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I generally just like sustained weird chords.
01:06 --> 01:07 [SPEAKER_04]: You're like a choppy chord.
01:07 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I like a choppy chord.
01:08 --> 01:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so.
01:09 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So, examples, listeners, you can see if you agree.
01:12 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Here comes your man, the Pixies 1989.
01:24 --> 01:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I do love that song, but I don't like the way it starts.
01:27 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't like the Andrews chord.
01:28 --> 01:30 [SPEAKER_04]: The Hitchcock chord, the sharp nine.
01:30 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay.
01:31 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, tell it like it is.
01:33 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_04]: 1966 Erin Neville, we got a C augmented on the piano here.
01:38 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
01:42 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
01:59 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you don't feel that way and the here comes your man.
02:02 --> 02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I feel like it's just busy work.
02:04 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, how about this chord?
02:05 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of unclear what this is.
02:06 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_04]: It's sort of a D minor 11, but it's like the piano plays one thing than the guitar plays another.
02:11 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_04]: 1964, a hard day's night, the Beatles.
02:17 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_05]: I actually like that one too.
02:26 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're changing my mind with by listening to examples.
02:29 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just drawing a pinion but I was just ignorant.
02:32 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, hard day's nice.
02:33 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Great.
02:34 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That's iconic and it like makes the song almost.
02:36 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I love how you're like, I had a strong opinion before I really knew what we were talking about.
02:41 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_04]: But as I learned, my opinion mellowed out.
02:43 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, always get to start with the strong opinion.
02:45 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the context.
02:46 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be contrary, I just want to be in disagree with it.
02:48 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
02:49 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Speaking of the contrary, what about the opposite of that?
02:52 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_04]: When the drums or like choppy guitar strings hit and start off a song, are you a fan of that?
02:58 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I instinct to say no?
02:59 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of opposite.
03:00 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think I might be, okay.
03:03 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I might be.
03:04 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Green Day 1997.
03:06 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Nice guys finished last.
03:15 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that.
03:15 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It got me like pumped up for the song.
03:17 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Pumps you up.
03:17 --> 03:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
03:18 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm kind.
03:19 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_04]: 1996, Sound Garden.
03:30 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, also like that.
03:32 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna draw them and we get the guitar going.
03:33 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm like, I'm ready to go.
03:36 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going for three for three.
03:37 --> 03:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Controversial artists got a lot of hate for my love.
03:41 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_04]: 1999, Jimmy World Clarity from the album Clarity.
03:57 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_04]: That's just a shaker opening.
03:59 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I like it more than a shaker opening.
04:01 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
04:02 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_04]: What about when both of them happen?
04:05 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
04:18 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to figure out if I like it or not.
04:20 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really dissonant to me and I generally don't like things that have like too many noises going on at once because I get overstimulated.
04:26 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
04:27 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So I felt a little bit of that like stimulus to it, then then didn't really sit well with me.
04:32 --> 04:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Because it starts with the E major ad 6 ad 9 chord.
04:35 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_04]: But then.
04:37 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_04]: with the drums in the guitar.
04:38 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and at first it took me a little while it's like orient to what I was listening to.
04:43 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Because it could be just the chord.
04:45 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Bring banana or it could just be ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch-ch
05:05 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_08]: It doesn't look the thing like Jesus, but he talks like a gentleman, like you imagine with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you, with you,
05:30 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_00]: a transient place.
05:32 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Plus you visit, but don't live.
05:34 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Who knows?
05:35 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Elvis Presley is not from Las Vegas.
05:38 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He's just like, hey, attach him.
05:39 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
05:40 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think there are a lot of artists you associate with Vegas, but from the Crystal Method.
05:47 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
05:48 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
05:48 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Electronica.
05:49 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Five finger death punch?
05:51 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
05:51 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_04]: No.
05:52 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_04]: No, they're not from like panic.
05:54 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_04]: At the disco.
05:55 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_04]: panic.
05:55 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_04]: At least the main guy.
05:56 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Panic.
05:57 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
05:57 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Is from.
05:58 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_04]: What is his name?
05:59 --> 06:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't remember his name.
06:00 --> 06:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I like him though.
06:02 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Sort of imagined dragons.
06:03 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_04]: But I think imagine dragons started in Utah and relocated to the city of Asia.
06:07 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Which is like the opposite.
06:08 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_00]: if there was another band from fully from Las Vegas named sort of imagine dragons like that's just like the band name but I say like sort of because they're actually like you talk but I think they like gathered their steam they like there's a lot of bands like oh from random town moved LA where they came out like I say I'm from Boston but I didn't like grow up in Boston so he limits
06:31 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I don't even mean that.
06:32 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, like, you didn't relocate, though.
06:34 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_04]: You're from the Burbs, but you're from the Boston area.
06:37 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think a magic dragons are from Clark County and they move to Vegas.
06:40 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_04]: I think they're from a different state.
06:42 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_04]: But when they're like, hey, guys, let's make this band a thing.
06:44 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_04]: That's where you got to get out of small town, Utah, or whatever.
06:47 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_04]: And they went to Vegas as like their hut, which I think a lot of people that happens, but it's New York City or Los Angeles.
06:53 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
06:54 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And for them, the the bridge step was like
07:01 --> 07:03 [SPEAKER_04]: That's right, that's right, exactly right.
07:03 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, got the last Vegas Symphony Orchestra there.
07:08 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_04]: You could say they're sort of from Las Vegas and the sort of song is from the 2006 Album Sam's Town, which I think is kind of about Vegas because Sam's town hotel and gambling hall is like a old school hotel casino kind of thing.
07:26 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know much about the like,
07:28 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I've heard this record, but the lyrical themes, I don't follow it.
07:31 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think it's a concept album or anything, but there's a lot of illusions to the city, I guess.
07:37 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_04]: But this is their second biggest hit.
07:39 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_04]: What would you think their number one is?
07:41 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, Mark, why is this one number 14 on the top of the topic?
07:44 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_04]: No, I'm not going to just tell you what, if you think the killer's, what's on do you think?
07:48 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And I, I'm assuming this isn't like your cup of tea really isn't really and I'm not going to know the name of it but as soon as you play I really like oh yeah that one nothing play We're not gonna figure it out.
07:57 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Final play No, no, I'm wrong.
08:01 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Not that one.
08:02 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't even have a queueed up because it doesn't matter Mr. Brightside Oh, yeah Mr. Brightside.
08:06 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that song.
08:06 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I like literally just started playing the next track and it's like no, that's a song actually Tell you controversial.
08:12 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_00]: They held kind of something to me
08:14 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
08:17 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
08:17 --> 08:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, okay.
08:18 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I don't know enough about them.
08:20 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So my friend, Andy, if he's listening, he's going to be so mad.
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: He's such a big killer's fan.
08:23 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know you're a big killer's fan, too.
08:25 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_04]: I like the killer's fan.
08:26 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_04]: So I really only know like, I know the first two records pretty well.
08:30 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_04]: The third record I've heard a little bit, but they have stuff after that that I haven't really heard at all.
08:34 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_04]: I've heard the songs, but I haven't done a deep dive past just those first.
08:39 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe I'll...
08:39 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_04]: transition to like a ukulele folk band or something and you're really missing it they're the new nickel creek and you don't even know ukulele the ukulele the ukulele ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the ukulele the uk
08:59 --> 09:02 [SPEAKER_04]: hit 14 on the Hot 100, but number one on the rock charts.
09:02 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_04]: So it was like a rock hit.
09:04 --> 09:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Mr. Brightside narrowly beat it.
09:06 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Also number one on the rock, but number 10 on the top 40.
09:10 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_04]: But the other songs you say all sound the same, like human is a very different kind of synth pop.
09:16 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_04]: weird grammar in there, number 32, and somebody told me, number 51.
09:21 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So that's kind of their big one.
09:22 --> 09:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that one, that one felt huge, though.
09:24 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
09:25 --> 09:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think we could say like stylistically, when you say they all sound the same, you could also say they have a style, right?
09:34 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_04]: You could say that they, they are echoing
09:38 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_04]: a style.
09:39 --> 09:39 [SPEAKER_04]: I guess.
09:39 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_05]: I would say that.
09:40 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I would say I think of this kind of his new orderly in excess type new wave or dance rock.
09:47 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_04]: So like something like somebody told me which which already mentioned would fit that bill.
09:52 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_08]: This is from 2003.
10:09 --> 10:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I like that robot break.
10:11 --> 10:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the synth.
10:11 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Beep, boop, boop, boop.
10:12 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_04]: And then like, they kept that going, I think.
10:16 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_04]: And in their third record, the song Space Band 2008, I don't know if you know this one, similar, I would say like new waves, synth pop kind of vibe.
10:22 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_07]: And you know, I'm right, I just want to move all from the floor, this guy, cause they're calling me vibe.
10:36 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_07]: It's a blue-eyed light, paints the street, got an important set of lights.
10:45 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the turn and point.
10:46 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually like that a lot.
10:48 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Actually, yeah, it's good.
10:49 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_04]: It turns out the killers might be really good, but it's similar like I think that's similar sound world kind of eighties nostalgia and I like I said I haven't dove into their new albums, but I listened to their newer singles and some of those tunes are feel much very much in that kind of world.
11:04 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So this is a tune from 2020, it's called caution and feels kind of eighties, but there's literally a guitar solo from Lindsey Buckingham.
11:13 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
11:13 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Remember back to our episode just recently about remember Lindsey Buckley would back so there's maybe some 70s in there too kick a listen
11:42 --> 11:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet they would be really good live to people say that about the killers, but they're really good.
11:47 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I haven't really, I bet that they would be very, very good live.
11:50 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Probably pretty fun.
11:51 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:52 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to hear a live thing a little bit later.
11:54 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
11:54 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_04]: I will play something.
11:55 --> 11:57 [SPEAKER_04]: But there is a little 70s in there.
11:57 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And so I think what's interesting about Sam's town, and this is going to lead sort of back to this song, is it feels like they took a little break, maybe I feel like there's 80s in this song, but also,
12:08 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_04]: something else.
12:09 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_04]: So if you listen to this, what does this remind you of?
12:12 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It reminds me of our days night.
12:34 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_04]: That's interesting because of the cord because of the course.
12:37 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's not the same cord.
12:39 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_04]: It shouldn't have no.
12:39 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_04]: It's different.
12:41 --> 12:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's actually very similar though It has a similar voicing.
12:44 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_04]: If you think of what George is playing But there's all it doesn't have the hard days not cords of weirder even but it It I think I actually played I had to learn how to play part of this for part of what I want to get into So I'm like actually this similar.
12:57 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm awesome good.
12:58 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I have a good year But you heard it here first
13:00 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_04]: But there's also not only the 80s and apparently the mid-60s.
13:06 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_04]: This has a little bit of heartland rock.
13:08 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
13:08 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_04]: This kind of thing going on.
13:25 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_00]: especially that riff and it is like nostalgia no matter how you frame it if it's how it is night at this heartland rocket is like it brings back to this nostalgia point.
13:37 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah that was of course born to run from 1975 from Springsteen.
13:42 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He's great, huh?
13:43 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Bruce.
13:44 --> 13:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we can.
13:46 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I think so it's interesting because we're talking, there's a couple born to run references in this, but born to run is also a song I kind of want to do.
13:54 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, cool.
13:55 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So we've only talked about Bruce Springsteen one time on podcast.
13:59 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, well, what were we even talking about?
14:00 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about Christmas music.
14:01 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's right.
14:02 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_04]: You brought him in.
14:04 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Santa Claus is coming to town or something like that.
14:06 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_04]: That was a good one.
14:07 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Nice screeny.
14:08 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think we might come back to Bruce.
14:09 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_04]: And I think we might even come back to that song.
14:11 --> 14:12 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I love this song.
14:13 --> 14:17 [SPEAKER_04]: But are you a fan of Heartland Rock that kind of like, blue collar working class?
14:17 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you seem like.
14:19 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_04]: you seem like every now and then it's worth putting down the acoustic guitar and rocking a little more and singing about the struggles of the working man and stuff like that right.
14:26 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_04]: And that, that burn, burn, burn, burn, and there's like clock and speel in that song that it feels kind of, you know, the ding bings.
14:34 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_00]: The deal.
14:36 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_04]: That happens in this song too.
14:38 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_04]: It feels like even though they kind of started from this new wave frame, this album dips into the 70s.
14:44 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_04]: I keep saying that
14:48 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if that's a term that you know, or that's just music nerd stuff.
14:51 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I can like, like, figure it out.
14:52 --> 14:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Like that or Tom Petty or a junk melon cam.
14:56 --> 14:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like not Americana, that's different.
14:58 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is like a really, like, really American rock.
15:01 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of like a merit, kind of accessible, right?
15:04 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:04 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_04]: But like, and it's also like,
15:06 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a blue collar to it like the stories are like storytelling about real people and like trying to think if there's any more modern Examples of that.
15:15 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess Tom Petty and Bruce Springsteen.
15:16 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_04]: They're still modern, but any more modern than the killers you mean.
15:20 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean the food fighters maybe
15:24 --> 15:25 [SPEAKER_04]: No, what's what's on modern?
15:25 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Just good old fashioned rock music.
15:27 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Good old fashioned rock.
15:29 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_04]: So I feel like a lot of times people think like what you like think of like dad rock bands.
15:33 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like dogs or whatever.
15:35 --> 15:37 [SPEAKER_04]: Those bands and I know that's like a decade ago.
15:37 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_04]: That sounds like that, but that don't think we group them in the same cat.
15:41 --> 15:43 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not like a movement in the same way, right?
15:44 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
15:45 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
15:45 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_04]: This song produced by Flood.
15:48 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Flood has come up in this podcast.
15:54 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_04]: He produced, he being the producer named Flood, not the concept of water overflowing.
16:01 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay, good news.
16:01 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because just to be clear, produced, what's the song we did?
16:05 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_04]: I can remember.
16:06 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really silent.
16:07 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I literally know my memory of a depression.
16:09 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
16:10 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like the first or second.
16:11 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_04]: That's like, that's like, no, I don't know about that, but it's probably the first 10.
16:14 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
16:15 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's like three minutes long.
16:17 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_04]: When I was like, oh, I have so much I want to save it.
16:18 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I shouldn't, I shouldn't waste time on the podcast.
16:22 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is exactly what we're trying to do.
16:24 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_04]: And also Alan Molder, co-produced this frequent collaborator.
16:28 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_04]: I should shout out, I haven't watched it for years, but have you heard the song explode or podcast?
16:33 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_04]: know where they like they're deep diving the song similarly to us, but in a totally different way where like the host will have that person talk through the like recording process and the track that's very cool.
16:44 --> 16:45 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's not an interview.
16:45 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just like a like a director's cut.
16:47 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Voice over of them almost commentary tracking and it'll play like just the base and then they'll say like, oh, this synth part took us really.
16:53 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_04]: So there's like a brief, I don't know if it's like a it's a Netflix series, I think.
16:57 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_04]: They did like one season of song exploiters and Netflix series.
17:01 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And they do a lot of different stuff, but one of them is this song, and it's cool to see them like tweaking the synths and stuff to try to get the sounds, right?
17:08 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I enjoyed that.
17:09 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a memorable one from that show.
17:12 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so what I wanna talk about really is the melody, and it's relationship with the chords.
17:17 --> 17:18 [SPEAKER_04]: It's another one of those.
17:18 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't really need to get into the springsteen of all of it, but maybe that'll come up a little bit.
17:23 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know if we wanna kind of like dive in and then you can reflect later about the brain stuff.
17:28 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if you've got something you wanna...
17:30 --> 17:39 [SPEAKER_00]: more likely less like brain stuff but more like developmental psych specifically to some common trends we see in like adolescent development.
17:39 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So we can like talk about your stuff and then talk about my stuff.
17:42 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_04]: I truly have no idea where that would be coming from in this.
17:45 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm curious.
17:47 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_04]: The lyrics of this song kind of baffled me actually.
17:49 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
17:49 --> 17:50 [SPEAKER_04]: And we can talk about it in the music.
17:50 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Did you watch the music video?
17:52 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like a whole thing.
17:53 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.
17:53 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like...
17:53 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_04]: you know you got something when you turn it on and it starts with no music.
17:57 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like I watched the Luther Kendrick Lamar video recently and it's like when you turn that thing on and things a minute and a half longer than the runtime of the song you're like oh it's like thriller here we go title card exactly like a whole credits bit okay I was thinking about like the song title when we were young and this idea of how we idealized certain things in our youth
18:20 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Or we look forward to the future with a romantic idea when we're young.
18:24 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Who may or may not look like Jesus?
18:26 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And you may or may not look like Jesus, but who's okay, you know, it's all relative.
18:30 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
18:30 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's, let's come back to with that.
18:32 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
18:32 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
18:32 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_04]: So I want to talk about essentially a melody that ignores the chord progression.
18:37 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_04]: And it creates a cool tension and also a catchiness.
18:40 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_04]: It makes it memorable.
18:41 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe contributes to the sort of 80s and 70s of it all.
18:45 --> 18:49 [SPEAKER_04]: But let's first just get this chord progression in our heads.
18:57 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_04]: And that's not the whole song, but it's a lot of the song.
19:00 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
19:01 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_04]: A lot of the song.
19:02 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_04]: And we don't hear it full goose dough like that with the strummy crunchy guitars throughout the whole song, but even when we just hear the bass, it's implying those chords, right?
19:13 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's listen to the start of where the melody, aside from the Miami-O-M-E-M-E-M-E-M, spring-steane guitar melody comes in with the doubling of the keyboards and stuff.
19:21 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's listen to the vocal melody fitting in with this.
19:24 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_11]: So this is the first part of the first verse of the song.
19:36 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_04]: My question for you.
19:37 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_04]: If the line there is, you sit there in your heartache, waiting on some beautiful boy, too.
19:42 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_04]: We're obviously not letting him finish the line.
19:45 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
19:46 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Which notes, which parts of the melody feel unstable to you?
19:50 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Listen again, listen again.
19:52 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_04]: You can just call out which words are whatever.
19:55 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_11]: You sit there in your heartache, waiting on some beautiful boy, too.
20:04 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_04]: your You're stable your heartache heart Oh Definitely Yeah like that Ooh your heartache You sit there in your heartache Wake nonsung beautiful boy too What if I told you
20:23 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_04]: But as I told you, that of that first line, heart is one of the only notes in the chord.
20:31 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That's wild.
20:32 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_04]: You sit there and you're the entire thing is not actually a part of that chord we're playing.
20:37 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:37 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_04]: And heart ache is, even though it feels kind of weird there.
20:41 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_11]: Listen again.
20:50 --> 21:00 [SPEAKER_04]: So when we hear like heart and beautiful, normally in a melody, those notes, that's a C sharp, by the way, in this song, we would think of those as the ones that are out of the chord.
21:00 --> 21:01 [SPEAKER_04]: They feel like they don't fit.
21:01 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_04]: If it's waiting on some beautiful boy too, those are the ones that are moving from point to point, right?
21:07 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_04]: And normally, those are what we call non-harmonic to.
21:11 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
21:11 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_04]: And a non-harmonic tone means it's not a part of the harmony.
21:15 --> 21:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So like if I'm playing a C, the C has in it a C in E and a G. Those are the three notes in the chord.
21:23 --> 21:27 [SPEAKER_04]: So if I'm singing like a D or a B, I am a non-harmonic tone.
21:27 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing something else.
21:29 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_04]: One of these days I'll do an episode where I'm just like, sharing awesome examples of not having a lot of tones, but those notes sound like they don't fit with the chords, but actually here they do.
21:43 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_04]: They're the only ones that do, which is super weird.
21:45 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_11]: It's weird.
21:54 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_04]: and I'll illustrate that in a second, but as a contrast, here's another killer's tomb, this is human, more I would say 80'sish.
22:01 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_04]: And the notes in this melody almost all of them fit squarely within the chord.
22:19 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So like, my hands are cold, it's that middle note.
22:23 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_04]: That middle note is the one that's weird.
22:25 --> 22:27 [SPEAKER_04]: The long note fit with the cord.
22:27 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_04]: In other words, the melody makes sense for the chord progression.
22:31 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
22:31 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm noticing when you're playing these examples.
22:34 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_00]: For me, when we were young, it's the killer song that I most know.
22:37 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know a lot of their other stuff.
22:39 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So when I'm hearing more of it, I'm noticing, it might not be the notes,
22:49 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: different to me and when we were young when I it's like his tone and the last saw the second song you just played was so crisp and clean and you realize like oh he's actually like a really he's a good vocalist like he's got a nice singing voice and then when we were young it's like his
23:04 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, I always thought it was his voice, but now I'm learning that it's the chords he's singing or the notes he's singing.
23:10 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Clashing with the chords.
23:11 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
23:11 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not giving that.
23:12 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
23:13 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Now he's not doing the spring sting grit.
23:15 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think he's got the same kind of husky shout in in most parts of his voice, but he's doing like a wobble.
23:22 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
23:22 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Listen later.
23:22 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll hear that.
23:23 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_04]: The devil's water.
23:25 --> 23:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Ain't so good.
23:26 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Like he's doing a thing that actually makes him fit with the court even less because he's out of tune And I always thought it was just his voice, but now I'm doing that Like he's doing and I think he's kind of trying to evoke the sort of 70s rock vocal without the grit Great Um, ooh, grit is like the word of the season I love it and love that I use grit a lot You understand You know, that's like the point of our Belandi episode Yeah And then like ever since then when I'm editing it's like, oh it's grit And then you're on the lower-hounds and it's like she said grit
23:56 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really intrigued.
23:57 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_04]: That's the name of the season two of our show.
24:01 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It was also I was thinking about voices that I was listening to your band, Slacodemics, new album, and it's hard for me to believe that you're singing, because it sounds so different.
24:13 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're speaking voice and you're singing voice sounds so different.
24:16 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Do people say that to you?
24:17 --> 24:20 [SPEAKER_04]: My I sent my like it's not my brother.
24:21 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Hi brother.
24:21 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think you're listening, but I sent my Gosh, what's it this band?
24:25 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it was this band when we did our EP a couple years ago I sent it to him and he was like I thought you were the singer
24:32 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Thinking like I hear like the plugs you know before listeners.
24:36 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure when you started this episode There was like a nod to check out Marksley's Marksley Stop the pandering eventually.
24:43 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
24:43 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_04]: I'll stop the pandering.
24:44 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Every time I'm listening to it I was like that can't be him.
24:47 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was the singer, but your your voice sounds so different Funny.
24:51 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you like do that on purpose or is it just like how it goes for you?
24:55 --> 24:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Is everyone like that like is my sing voice so different than my speaking voice
24:59 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Some people sound like they talk.
25:02 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Definitely.
25:02 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, do I not?
25:03 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_04]: So you don't.
25:04 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm kind of doing an affectation a little bit, but it's like, it's so automatic to me now.
25:09 --> 25:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like unrecognizable.
25:10 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have your voice in my ear a lot.
25:12 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I hear you in those, it sounds great.
25:14 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But I always give it a second take.
25:17 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, is that really Mark?
25:19 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And then once I dial into it in my, I like tune my ear.
25:22 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, all right, I can hear you in there.
25:24 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we got to get into that, or try it.
25:26 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something there, just fascinating.
25:29 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
25:30 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_04]: So.
25:31 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds great.
25:32 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys should listen to it.
25:33 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Sweet.
25:34 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
25:34 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome.
25:41 --> 25:41 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:41 --> 25:41 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
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25:46 --> 25:46 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:46 --> 25:46 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:46 --> 25:46 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:46 --> 25:46 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:46 --> 25:46 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:46 --> 25:47 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:47 --> 25:47 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:47 --> 25:47 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:47 --> 25:47 [UNKNOWN]: Music.
25:49 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so what's the deal with this song?
25:51 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_04]: How, what am I getting at?
25:52 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Why is this different?
25:54 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_04]: He is singing branded by the way, Brandon Flowers, not to be confused with the NFL cornerback, former cornerback, maybe, Brandon Flowers.
26:03 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
26:04 --> 26:07 [SPEAKER_04]: The vocalist and one of the songwriters in the killers.
26:07 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_04]: By the way, they're the killers?
26:10 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Doesn't it feel like if they were killers, it would be more menacing?
26:13 --> 26:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Like the killers feels more like fun.
26:17 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess.
26:17 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's some, this is, it apparently, I mentioned New Order.
26:21 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_04]: New Order was in my brain because apparently, there's a new order like a latter day New Order song from the 2000s or something that has a fictional band in the music video.
26:30 --> 26:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
26:31 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_04]: And that fictional band is called The Killers.
26:34 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, guys, that is really intensely detailed.
26:38 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Watching of a music video to notice the thing on the drummer's kick drum.
26:42 --> 26:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Did it, does it predate the killers?
26:45 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like, like a year or two before this band formed.
26:48 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_04]: There's like a new order tune.
26:49 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, way after new order is they were not in their peak doing, like, blue Monday and all that.
26:53 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_04]: they have a song called Crystal and there's just like a band playing in the video and on the kick drum, you know how it says like the Beatles or whatever it says the killers and someone was like super eagle-eyed.
27:05 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_04]: I love this song everybody frees frame watch for one second.
27:09 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_04]: They're called the killers.
27:10 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's name our band like a very specific.
27:12 --> 27:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was where they got the band name the killer.
27:14 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's really really.
27:15 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_04]: You order reference which makes sense because they're doing this kind of synthed but guitar music.
27:19 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_04]: I guess New Order is less guitaried than them.
27:22 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_04]: So anyways, what they're doing and maybe this is something new order would do, this song is in B major.
27:28 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
27:28 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
27:29 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_04]: So normally when I talk about non-harmonic tones, I just mentioned like, oh, you're playing a C, sing the notes and C. The deal with this song is Brandon is always basically going to sing the notes in the B major chord.
27:42 --> 27:44 [SPEAKER_04]: B, D sharp or F sharp.
27:44 --> 27:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
27:45 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_04]: And the B major chord is very rare in this song.
27:48 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_04]: It's only one of not very rare.
27:50 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_04]: This isn't like the fleet would back to and where the key note never happens.
27:54 --> 27:56 [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's of the like four chords in the riff.
27:57 --> 27:58 [SPEAKER_04]: It happens for like a second.
27:58 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like one fourth.
27:59 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So what chords are they playing then?
28:01 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Well,
28:02 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_04]: A version.
28:02 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we're going to get into it a little bit.
28:04 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
28:04 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_04]: But they're praying like an E in F sharp, a G sharp, and then sometimes the B, but his vocal is always outlining the B chord almost always and that feels natural to us even though in a lot of cases.
28:18 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_04]: it really clashes.
28:20 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_04]: So take a listen to this one more time and I know we are hitting this section a lot.
28:25 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_04]: But when he sings you sit there, he's on a D-sharp, which is a part of our B-Cord.
28:30 --> 28:33 [SPEAKER_04]: But in the E-Cord, it's a half step away from the root.
28:33 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a dissonant seventh, right?
28:36 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_04]: And when he sings heartache, that's actually fitting perfectly with those two chords.
28:41 --> 28:42 [SPEAKER_04]: The F-sharp and the G-sharp chord.
28:43 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the notes that he lingers on.
28:45 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_04]: Don't fit.
28:49 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_04]: So the note that you would think would be stable is actually unstable and let's listen to where he goes next.
29:01 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_04]: This time listen, where does it sound like his melody note doesn't fit with the chord before it was heartache, which words feel like they stick out as off of the harmony.
29:16 --> 29:18 [SPEAKER_00]: old ways, old ways.
29:18 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to mimic the fruvious phrase because I was right.
29:21 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But listen, also, which, which other notes to save you from your old ways.
29:27 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_00]: You're looking at me like you need me to say something.
29:28 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I'm supposed to say.
29:30 --> 29:32 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but it's for me it's like your old ways.
29:32 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing as the previous phrase.
29:33 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_04]: To me, I hear save is the weird.
29:36 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_10]: To save you from your old ways.
29:40 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_10]: Save you, save you.
29:42 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_04]: It's a neighbor's own, right?
29:43 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_04]: Or sorry, it's, we'll get into this later.
29:45 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not Pajito, but it's actually the root of the chord.
29:48 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, cool.
29:49 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_04]: So it is the note that should feel the most stable and it feels weird and old ways.
29:54 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_04]: are in the chord solidly also.
29:57 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
29:57 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_04]: So the notes that feel like they're off are the ones that should feel on.
30:01 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_04]: It's opposite.
30:02 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_10]: To save you from your old ways.
30:06 --> 30:08 [SPEAKER_04]: Save you from your.
30:08 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_04]: It's it sounds like weird good, weird good, but it's good, weird, good, weird.
30:12 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very dissonant.
30:13 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Old ways, but it's the opposite of what actually are ears somehow.
30:18 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'll get into how.
30:20 --> 30:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Our ear is acclimated to that.
30:21 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Anything that isn't in the B chord.
30:23 --> 30:33 [SPEAKER_04]: feels wrong, which means the notes that are actually in the court feel, feel wrong, and the notes that are out of the court feel right, it's the opposite.
30:33 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_04]: They've drilled down for some reason, B major is what we want, not E, F sharp G sharp, these cords they're playing.
30:39 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Got it.
30:40 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so I'm not losing you.
30:42 --> 30:43 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I absolutely get it.
30:43 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel like we're like really making the point there.
30:45 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:45 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Because I think this might not be easy to hear, which is why.
30:48 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not easy to hear.
30:49 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Should I cut my half of it?
30:50 --> 30:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, it's hard to hear it because it's meant to, like the way the song's written, it's meant to be uniform.
30:58 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can hear, because your ear is very well-trained, but the average listener is not going to like pick up on it because...
31:04 --> 31:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We're meant to hear it as a whole big picture.
31:07 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_04]: It also goes by so fast.
31:08 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And it goes by so fast.
31:09 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like adds tension and like this dissoned the song, which makes the song rich and interesting.
31:14 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:14 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's all the average listeners here.
31:16 --> 31:17 [SPEAKER_04]: So let's talk from then about why.
31:17 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
31:18 --> 31:27 [SPEAKER_04]: So we already said like the correct notes, even though they don't fit with the chord, or the notes that are a part of B major, B, D sharp F sharp.
31:27 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_04]: But only one of the chords is actually at B major chord, right?
31:30 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
31:30 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's, but it's the homeness of that chord.
31:34 --> 31:41 [SPEAKER_04]: The tada, we're at home of B major, overrides the actual tension it might have with the chord progression.
31:41 --> 31:48 [SPEAKER_04]: So if we listen back to the actual chords one more time, just played by, let's say, the full strumming guitar.
31:55 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna play it, this is me playing.
31:57 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love that.
31:58 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, listeners, I appreciate it.
32:00 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I had to down tune my guitar after this.
32:02 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of work.
32:02 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of work.
32:03 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So much easier for me just to record on the piano, but I'm playing this is also my base debut on this podcast.
32:09 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm playing it, and then put it into the computer machine and like down tune to the computer.
32:13 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, maybe it would sound weird, but also I can down tune to half step, it's all right.
32:17 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
32:17 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_04]: But I'm also I'm playing base, because you need the base to play base.
32:20 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's never played base.
32:21 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Never play base.
32:22 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Mm.
32:22 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_04]: So.
32:23 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_04]: So.
32:24 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_04]: This is me playing it just so we can strip away the sense and the drums, just here.
32:27 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_04]: This is the chords the way they play it.
32:39 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, too much reverb, Mark, too much reverb.
32:40 --> 32:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
32:41 --> 32:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You sound so good, Mark.
32:42 --> 32:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like a killer.
32:43 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm, I am a killer, not killer, right?
32:46 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So be threatening.
32:47 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So.
32:49 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_04]: The weird thing about this, they're playing it in a weird way that actually is dissonant at its core that I think supports the melody doing what it does.
33:00 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me play this.
33:01 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_04]: This is the base with the guitar playing just one note, F sharp, not the whole core just one note.
33:16 --> 33:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Do you hear us sometimes that note is wrong and then sometimes it's right?
33:21 --> 33:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
33:30 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_04]: That note is in every single one of the chords the guitar plays.
33:33 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_04]: So when I play the way they play it, it's the regular chords with that note added.
33:48 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't hear it as loud because it's just one of the strings.
33:51 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_04]: These aren't actually the real chords.
33:53 --> 33:56 [SPEAKER_04]: The chords go E, F sharp, G sharp, minor B.
33:57 --> 34:15 [SPEAKER_04]: But this is if I just played those chords without the weird extra note.
34:23 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's weirder.
34:27 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, and you're not going to like this to me, they sound similar.
34:30 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
34:31 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But the second version sounds more on brand to what I had in my head as a killer song.
34:37 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to, let's just listen to just the first chord.
34:40 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Here's the real chord.
34:43 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Compare.
34:46 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's like an extra like something scratching in the background one note that's supposed to be there is change to be a wrong note right and what that note is is this note.
34:56 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_04]: that F-sharp.
34:57 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_04]: What's to deal with that F-sharp?
34:58 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_04]: That F-sharp is a part of the B-cord.
35:00 --> 35:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
35:00 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_04]: It is not a part of the E-cord.
35:02 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_04]: It's barely a part of the G-sharp chord.
35:04 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't really belong in some of these chords.
35:08 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And so why that F-sharp because the F-sharp is a part of the B-cord.
35:12 --> 35:18 [SPEAKER_04]: And so even though it's not the B, they're playing that and it reminds us of the B.
35:18 --> 35:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me, what if they had done just played the B-cord against this case?
35:21 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_04]: This is the actual full B-cord, not the F-sharp.
35:32 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't even sound like the same song.
35:33 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_04]: It's weird.
35:34 --> 35:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's weird.
35:35 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_04]: But by playing this, that note, with the other notes, we can kind of make our brains think of this.
35:47 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_04]: So if I play the whole B chord and then have the base plates thing, it sounds wrong.
35:51 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_04]: But I can imply it and that one wrong note in the keyboards and the guitars.
35:56 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
36:11 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_04]: You sit there.
36:12 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_04]: That sounds good, but to save you sounds weird, but though it is in the chord, and own ways is in the chord, but feels weird because it's not a part of the beat.
36:22 --> 36:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're kind of conditioned to think of it one way, so when he plays it, to say the correct way is the wrong thing to say, but the way that's within the chord is sounds like it's wrong because we're so used to hearing it the other way.
36:37 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that, do I have it?
36:38 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, totally.
36:39 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_04]: And if I play just the first verse,
36:42 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody think the notes that should make sense are BAM-BAM-BAM-BAM Whenever he hits one of those three notes, we feel at home.
36:50 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Whenever he does not hit one of those notes, it feels not at rest.
36:55 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_11]: Even though the chords don't demand those three notes at all.
37:09 --> 37:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I cut it there just because that doesn't have a melody.
37:11 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_04]: It's basically a challenge.
37:12 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a good one.
37:13 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_04]: So is this also what happens in the chorus and the answer is yes, he doesn't look a thing like Jesus, he doesn't look a thing like seems unstable and it has to resolve.
37:25 --> 37:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Listen.
37:30 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_04]: But he doesn't look good thing is the root of the chord.
37:34 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Why does it feel unsatisfying because it's an E and it needs to go down to our D-sharp because E is not a part of B.
37:40 --> 37:51 [SPEAKER_08]: Let's listen to that whole section.
37:56 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and what's going on with the synth in the background is that in the B chord is that in like the the home chord Like where it's supposed to be So
38:11 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm figuring it out, everybody.
38:12 --> 38:14 [SPEAKER_04]: I didn't, I didn't chart out, I didn't.
38:14 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because like to me, that sounds like it's like lifting above everything in the way that feels very constant.
38:19 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_04]: So the notes that don't exist.
38:22 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.
38:22 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_04]: So, but uh, bah, bah, bah.
38:24 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_04]: That is like almost all in the E-Core, but the only ones that fit with the B.
38:28 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But a-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-
38:50 --> 38:53 [SPEAKER_04]: But it is a part of the cord that you're hearing.
38:53 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_04]: That's the weird thing, that, uh, that, that's the seven in the scale.
38:57 --> 38:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
38:57 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Which really clashy with the B cord, but it is, and that moment, it's completely in the F sharp cord we're hearing.
39:11 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_04]: do that's also not in the vehicle.
39:12 --> 39:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And that part is like kind of mimicking what he's doing with the melody in that like the intervals that he's using but in the melody matches to me what's happening in that synth part.
39:23 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, they're similarly both just the B chord with notes that are too high attached to it.
39:29 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_04]: So they're both kind of jumping around the same chord, except the synth chord uses also that D, that like A sharp, that's really classy, right?
39:37 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Even though it's not classy with the chord, it's just classy with the B in our head, right?
39:42 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_04]: It's sort of like whatever happens on the chords, the B major notes are the only ones that are correct B, D sharp and F sharp.
39:49 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_04]: even though that does not make sense with the way, even this band will often write their melodies, right?
39:54 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_04]: So if we think on other examples in other music, without necessarily them having to be obsessed with one chord, like three notes like this one, we do see in pop songs often a melody that is very disjointed from the harmonies, where the melody might continue doing a thing, like this one does, even when the chords are changing underneath it, like it's ignoring that, right?
40:15 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_04]: And that instability can be nice.
40:17 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_04]: on our era's playlist you played what's the Scottish super group.
40:21 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, um, the reindeer section.
40:22 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_04]: The reindeer section, that guy.
40:24 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
40:24 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Guy from a snow surface.
40:26 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Snow, snow, so this is snow patrol.
40:28 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_04]: So this is snow patrol.
40:29 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
40:30 --> 40:31 [SPEAKER_00]: This is name Gary Leipati.
40:31 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Gary Leipati.
40:32 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I can't believe I remember that.
40:34 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
40:34 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_04]: This is how to be dead 2003.
40:36 --> 40:46 [SPEAKER_04]: A very small set of melodic notes that repeat even when the chords change in a way that doesn't really fit those melody notes.
40:48 --> 41:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like just a little bit disconnected in a way that like if with the killers adds so much tension and so much texture, but here like
41:12 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Strips it down the way that feels vulnerable to me.
41:14 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like floating to me.
41:16 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right.
41:17 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_00]: That's okay.
41:17 --> 41:19 [SPEAKER_04]: We'll song another one.
41:19 --> 41:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's great.
41:20 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Another one.
41:21 --> 41:23 [SPEAKER_04]: A podcast alum.
41:24 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
41:24 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody wants to rule the world in 1985.
41:26 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Cheers for fears.
41:28 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Cheers for fears with the number four, right?
41:31 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_04]: No, definitely not a prince, too.
41:34 --> 41:47 [SPEAKER_04]: So this song, the melody has a few notes that fit in the key, but really don't follow what the chords are, and most dissections of this song will repeat those notes even when the chords are changing.
41:50 --> 42:05 [SPEAKER_12]: You like to know best if you turn your back on the beach and everybody wants to move forward.
42:05 --> 42:20 [SPEAKER_00]: same thing's happening for me here as it did when I first started breaking down when we were young and that I always assumed it was just the like tamper of the person things voice and not like the notes they're saying I just thought it's how their voice was.
42:20 --> 42:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That seemed a little bit of dissonant to me.
42:23 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But I guess not.
42:24 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's 100%.
42:26 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm not saying it's not Rollins.
42:29 --> 42:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But just 100% so.
42:30 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, is that Rollin?
42:31 --> 42:32 [SPEAKER_04]: I think that actually might be Kurt.
42:33 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Look at me on first name basis with the guys in terms of fear.
42:35 --> 42:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Guys are so close.
42:36 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_04]: Those two notes are perfect.
42:39 --> 42:40 [SPEAKER_04]: Fifth leap.
42:40 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_04]: We're going through four chords there, each a step apart.
42:42 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Those notes can't be in all four of those chords.
42:44 --> 42:45 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not possible, right?
42:45 --> 42:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's tense.
42:46 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very tense.
42:47 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not too clear.
42:48 --> 42:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And the ability is that.
42:49 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the notes.
42:50 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
42:50 --> 42:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
42:51 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
42:51 --> 42:52 [SPEAKER_04]: One more example.
42:53 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_04]: This time a descending scale.
42:54 --> 42:55 [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm not a jump like that.
42:55 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_04]: Over three changing chords.
42:57 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_04]: This is Daphth Punk 2013, loser self-to-dance.
43:00 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Nice.
43:01 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_06]: For L, one of his cameos on that record.
43:10 --> 43:27 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's like this tension, for sure.
43:27 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_04]: And there I think similar to the song we're listening to.
43:30 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Now Rodgers is doing that slinky funk guitar part and his part barely changes, even though the chords are changing, the guitar doesn't change much, which gives sort of the vocal permission to also not change.
43:41 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_00]: No female examples, huh?
43:43 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_04]: No female examples of this jumping into my head.
43:45 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_04]: You got some female examples.
43:46 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_00]: No, not even.
43:47 --> 43:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe the females don't need this level of like trans-positional and traumatic.
43:52 --> 43:53 [SPEAKER_04]: What is it about?
43:53 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_04]: What did these three songs have in common?
43:54 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_04]: I got different eras.
43:56 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I got different nationalities.
43:58 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_04]: I got brits.
43:58 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_04]: I got Scottish people.
44:00 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I got Frenchmen, but it's all dudes.
44:02 --> 44:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all dudes.
44:03 --> 44:05 [SPEAKER_04]: The dudes like their harmony ignoring.
44:05 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_00]: They love it.
44:06 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_00]: They love it famously, and that's like all they ever talk about anymore.
44:09 --> 44:13 [SPEAKER_04]: The killer is a very aggressive feels like a macho kind of band name, too.
44:14 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're not that macho.
44:15 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:15 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
44:16 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_04]: They're not that macho.
44:18 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_04]: They don't feel super macho.
44:19 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like Bruce Springsteen.
44:21 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me a break.
44:22 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but Bruce, Bruce has got heart to him though.
44:24 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But he's macho.
44:25 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think play.
44:26 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_00]: See?
44:26 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
44:27 --> 44:27 [UNKNOWN]: Yes.
44:28 --> 44:29 [SPEAKER_04]: Everybody's got a hungry heart.
44:29 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's got a hungry heart.
44:31 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That is that.
44:31 --> 44:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dude.
44:32 --> 44:33 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that what you think it is?
44:33 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't know.
44:35 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, yeah, I think of Bruce Springston.
44:36 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I think of Macho, for sure.
44:38 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Blue collar.
44:39 --> 44:41 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, we'll come back to this in a couple minutes.
44:41 --> 44:43 [SPEAKER_04]: So wrapping up my deal here, musically here.
44:43 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_04]: So does this persist for the rest of the song?
44:46 --> 44:48 [SPEAKER_04]: So later in the song, we have this post-chorus.
44:48 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And it's more of the same spoiler.
44:51 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_04]: The sometimes when he says sometimes you close your eyes, some does not fit with the chord, but it is a part of our B chord, so it sounds nice and cozy at least to my ear.
45:02 --> 45:15 [SPEAKER_11]: And then it chills on the B at the end of the phrase, even though the chords don't all have B in them.
45:17 --> 45:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that when you were young, he's on the B even though there's an F sharp with the should not have that be in it.
45:22 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Aligning our main chord again.
45:24 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that too many examples?
45:25 --> 45:26 [SPEAKER_04]: No, not enough examples.
45:26 --> 45:28 [SPEAKER_04]: There's the guitar solo we're about to hear.
45:29 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_04]: It's only really one note.
45:30 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_04]: And guess what?
45:31 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the D sharp, which does not fit with our chords very well.
45:41 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like they're kind of making fun of us a little bit, right?
45:43 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like they're making fun of one of us.
45:47 --> 45:48 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
45:48 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Let's break it up.
45:49 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Here's a scale.
45:50 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_04]: They play an actual kind of scale and an emphasizes a different chord.
45:53 --> 45:54 [SPEAKER_04]: The F sharp.
45:54 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_04]: And this sticks out as being super different.
45:56 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_04]: This is a full rich harmony with the A sharp in it.
45:59 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_04]: We haven't heard this sound at all.
46:01 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a stylistic reference.
46:02 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_04]: Take a listen.
46:10 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Does that remind you of anything?
46:11 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Remains your Bruce Springsteen.
46:13 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I thought you were going to say this.
46:19 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_12]: Oh yeah, I guess it's like exactly the same thing.
46:22 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_04]: It's the same as that, but I think this is supposed to be a reference to born to run again.
46:26 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
46:49 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think that means what you think it means.
46:51 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_04]: So in 2025, they released a three song live EP.
46:55 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
46:55 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_04]: With Bruce.
46:56 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, very cool.
46:58 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_04]: So they do two spring stings songs and one of their tunes.
47:01 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_00]: What spring stings songs do they do?
47:02 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Santa Claus is coming to town?
47:04 --> 47:06 [SPEAKER_04]: That's not a Bruce spring stings song.
47:06 --> 47:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Um, what is the other song they do?
47:10 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no way to tell.
47:11 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_04]: No hand.
47:12 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we can never so way.
47:14 --> 47:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
47:14 --> 47:15 [SPEAKER_00]: He's googling it.
47:18 --> 47:21 [SPEAKER_04]: So they do dust land, badlands, and born to run.
47:22 --> 47:23 [SPEAKER_00]: All these land songs.
47:23 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, lots of, lots of old Bruce Springsteen songs.
47:26 --> 47:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Search up that.
47:27 --> 47:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Search it up.
47:28 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what the kids say.
47:29 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Search it up.
47:29 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_04]: That is what the kids say.
47:30 --> 47:31 [SPEAKER_04]: Isn't it wild?
47:31 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Really freaking weird.
47:32 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Search it up.
47:33 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Search it up like they're mixing.
47:35 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:36 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
47:37 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Search it up.
47:38 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Badlands aboard to Ron or Springsteen tunes, Dustland is a similarly themed apparently killers.
47:44 --> 47:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Sounds good.
47:44 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_04]: But so, and they do actual board to Ron live.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Where you in, please hear it.
48:06 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That was Brandon in the second part.
48:09 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:09 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_04]: Bruce, first.
48:10 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_04]: You can tell it different.
48:11 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_04]: This sound, well, they have very different voices.
48:14 --> 48:19 [SPEAKER_04]: So wrapping up the song, there is, there is the one section with the different chord progression.
48:20 --> 48:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
48:20 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_04]: The devil's one other.
48:22 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_04]: That part.
48:22 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
48:23 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
48:23 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_04]: You don't have to drink.
48:24 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Like these notes.
48:26 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_04]: It follows a different chord progression.
48:27 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_04]: We got like D sharp minor now, same rules.
48:31 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_09]: They say the devil's water and aim so sweet You don't have to drink right now
48:40 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_04]: So, again, the things that feel off are the parts that should feel on.
48:46 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_04]: And when we hear this last bit, this is where we get the fancy D-sharp minor chord.
48:51 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Every once, every once in a feels perfect for our B major, but that note is a half-stuff off of what it should be on that F-sharp chord.
49:00 --> 49:03 [SPEAKER_04]: So it clashes with the harmony, but for some reason sounds nice and stable.
49:07 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_09]: But you can tip your feet.
49:08 --> 49:09 [SPEAKER_09]: Every once in a,
49:13 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I just let that play that I love this base breakdown and then another one Not guitar solo with D sharp, but then it goes to F sharp, which is again, not in the chords, but in the me major chord.
49:49 --> 49:57 [SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, there's other cool stuff in the song, like a nice chord substitution at the end, nice octave, 80 style backing vocals, whatever.
49:57 --> 50:05 [SPEAKER_04]: The melody has a weird relationship with the harmony that you don't see, and well, apparently, you don't see it in any music written by women.
50:05 --> 50:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, yes, I wonder why.
50:07 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Fomacho, heart, no, it's like emotional, emotionally vulnerable, European men, right?
50:15 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Tears for fears, and guys from Vegas, you know, there's a lot of interesting stuff comes out of Vegas in the field of like social science research.
50:27 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say, even just going back hearing that last bit you played, it just makes me want to go see the killer's live.
50:33 --> 50:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I'm like a full fan of them, but I would love to see them perform live, because I think that they would really energize the crowd in a really cool way.
50:44 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure Dave or someone else in our listeners ship will write in.
50:47 --> 50:50 [SPEAKER_04]: Like some, no, like one of the, didn't you write in about the minute work?
50:50 --> 50:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Wasn't that Dave, who was it?
50:51 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Or Mike, which of our, which of our someone here has seen the killer's life?
50:56 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And can say like Nicole's right.
50:57 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm talking about listeners, you know who you are.
50:59 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Those of you that write in give us concert updates.
51:01 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
51:01 --> 51:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Who's seen the killer's life?
51:02 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, like, you may go, like, can you get us on the list?
51:05 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to meet Brandon Floward.
51:06 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_04]: I can't wait to make plans with you to go and then I thought that you'd be able to spend it.
51:11 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
51:12 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
51:12 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_04]: Because that's why I'm going to go to the plus one.
51:13 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:14 --> 51:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's backstage.
51:14 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Guess who I'm not taking Mark here.
51:16 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm taking my friend Andy.
51:17 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
51:18 --> 51:19 [SPEAKER_04]: What do we what do we want to talk about?
51:19 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Is there anything you want to add for us?
51:21 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been dying to talk about that.
51:23 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
51:24 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So this whole time.
51:25 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_00]: This whole time you're talking about like notes that should make sense, but don't and that you keep saying things like this isn't the correct note, like this isn't the right note, but like who are we, I know what you're going to say, but who are we to say what's right or not right, like it's the right note, because that's the note they're playing in the song, so just the right note for this song, even if it's the wrong note.
51:51 --> 51:56 [SPEAKER_00]: for the chord, but who gets to decide like what's right and wrong.
51:57 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know that in music theory like obviously people decided like, mixo and lidion like decided.
52:03 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Mr. Mixo, no.
52:05 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_04]: So you've got to backwards, right?
52:06 --> 52:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Music theory is not prescriptive.
52:07 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Music theory is descriptive.
52:09 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
52:09 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_04]: So a music theory does not tell you what you should do.
52:11 --> 52:15 [SPEAKER_04]: Music theory is used to explain what is happening and why it does work.
52:15 --> 52:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're when we talk about the song.
52:17 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_00]: You've said
52:20 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_04]: what I'm talking about is where it diverts from the norm.
52:23 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_04]: So even other killer songs, you have your notes in the chord that tends to be the cornerstone of the melody.
52:31 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_04]: And in this song, they're doing the opposite of that.
52:32 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
52:32 --> 52:33 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
52:33 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_04]: Notes in the chord don't fit.
52:34 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_04]: So when I say, what I'm describing, if I'm using negative terminology, I'm describing why the song is good.
52:42 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
52:43 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Why do I like this song?
52:44 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_04]: It might have something to do with the tension that is created by the uniqueness of this.
52:51 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And like the texture of that, like the texture of that, like dissonant, the harmonic dissonance.
52:57 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not going to use it.
52:57 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_04]: We're a texture because that's different.
52:59 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_04]: Another thing I like about this song, a texture which is the interactions of the elements of the instruments, but it creates a, like a suspense kind of that when paired with the nostalgia that this song is evoking through other means, through the eighth note grindy beat that's very like 80s new wave, but the arpeggio guitar and the
53:20 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Dun-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un
53:43 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So many avenues to discuss psychosocial themes with this song, and there's one, a one or two that I really want to dwell on, but this song brings up so much stuff in like the adolescent developmental psych world.
54:11 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So it talks a lot about this idea of personal fable in adolescence and this idea of imaginary audience, which are things that we label like commonalities of the adolescent experience.
54:24 --> 54:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So a personal fable is this belief that everything you do, like speaks to your destiny and is uniquely important and uniquely yours.
54:33 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_00]: to it's like this main character energy like this main character story right and that comes up in the lyrics of the song a little bit.
54:40 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about this idea of invincibility fable in adolescence this like that nothing bad is ever going to happen to you that you're kind of invincible and you grow out of that as your brain develops more.
54:51 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Can I ask?
54:52 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
54:52 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Why are we suddenly using the word Fable?
54:56 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_04]: We talk about like what are the things called like biases?
54:58 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_04]: We talk about distortions, but in this context, you're using the word Fable, which is really interesting because it's about the story you tell yourself, right?
55:07 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_04]: But that doesn't seem like that comes up in other like delusions humans have.
55:11 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fable like the word itself like from I'm sure it comes up elsewhere, but I mainly use it and the what I know about it is in this like adolescent identity development moment where we're developing our own narratives of who we are in the world.
55:28 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And in adolescence you are, so we've been adolescence from 12 to 18, which is like a huge developmental window.
55:34 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Like huge, like big rates happens.
55:36 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Lots happened.
55:36 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Lots happened.
55:38 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And in that developmental window, you're really focusing on figuring out who you are and learning about your personal identity, learning about like trying on different roles, trying on different characters, and seeing which one is the best fit for you to choose essentially to move on into adulthood with.
55:55 --> 56:00 [SPEAKER_00]: and a lot of the things that happened during this time are so formative for us moving forward.
56:00 --> 56:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And it does become like the story you tell yourself about your adolescence might not be in objective point of view.
56:09 --> 56:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It is an entirely subjective.
56:10 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Your adolescent experiences from your lens in a very egocentric point of view, which means that you are the main character of the
56:21 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if everything else around you is different from what's normal, you set normal.
56:27 --> 56:27 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
56:28 --> 56:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Your point of view is the normative experience, even if it's an outlier experience.
56:32 --> 56:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And that references what you're talking about in the song harmonically in that the melody is setting normal even if the chords are telling us something different.
56:42 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense, that connection?
56:44 --> 56:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm just going to think about it though, because this song, I think I already mentioned, like, I think this song, the lyrics are a little mystifying, and the video doesn't help.
56:51 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_04]: The video is like, set in Mexico, and there's this woman who's loved one is like past, but then he maybe comes back and like, it's this whole like arc of their, the rise and fall and rise again of their relationship.
57:01 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very interesting, like short film kind of thing.
57:04 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
57:04 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_04]: But it seems like this song is about changing your expectations, right?
57:08 --> 57:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Because,
57:09 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, he doesn't look a thing like Jesus, but he talks like a gentleman like you imagined when you were young and so like if he's talking about this this current relationship that I think we're talking about a woman here who had this fantasy this archetype in her head that he would be a gentleman.
57:24 --> 57:24 [SPEAKER_04]: He would do this.
57:24 --> 57:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, and he kind of looks like Jesus, but like
57:26 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, he doesn't look like Jesus, but he still kind of talks like that idealized and does that change over time and I don't I don't know like I don't know how the devil's water I don't know how that fits in with this really but It's interesting.
57:41 --> 57:52 [SPEAKER_04]: It's very some of these lyrics are very like heart land or I can imagine like a springsteen kind of were burning down the highway skyline on the back of a hurricane Like that's like a George Thur a good lyric or something like that, right?
57:52 --> 57:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I get it
57:52 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_00]: make some connections to those lyrics because I think that in this adolescent moment, which I'm like putting the song in mainly because I heard it when I was in the lesson, right?
58:01 --> 58:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But we do like idealized romantic partners and like romantic partners that we have in high school, like our first romantic relationships.
58:08 --> 58:15 [SPEAKER_00]: are often like they do set the benchmark for a romantic relationships moving forward for better or for worse.
58:16 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So to say he doesn't look a thing like Jesus, like but he talks like a gentleman, maybe as a kid you held up Jesus as like an idealized form.
58:24 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
58:25 --> 58:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe when you're striving for a romantic partner you're looking for an idealized form and you're realizing he isn't that, but he still's a good guy, so maybe that's okay.
58:35 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And that devil's water pieces like these other outliers that are going to come in and try to take that person's status position that romantic partner status position and take over and we like reject that.
58:47 --> 58:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And we stay true to who we we really cling to.
58:51 --> 58:56 [SPEAKER_00]: the persona that we fell in love with when we were young, which is the name of the song.
58:56 --> 58:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm trying to bring it back.
58:57 --> 58:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Which is interesting.
58:58 --> 59:00 [SPEAKER_04]: That's that line.
59:00 --> 59:04 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like about that, but it's anti about that.
59:04 --> 59:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Like I feel like the message of the song is like,
59:07 --> 59:10 [SPEAKER_04]: breaking free of what you had to be true when you were young.
59:10 --> 59:15 [SPEAKER_04]: But like, but that's the line they keep, they end the section on that's the title of the song, right?
59:16 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_04]: Let me wrap my head around this.
59:17 --> 59:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, what was the term?
59:19 --> 59:20 [SPEAKER_04]: What was the fable?
59:20 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_04]: There were two types of fables.
59:21 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a personal fable, and then like, imaginary audience.
59:24 --> 59:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There's another fable.
59:25 --> 59:27 [SPEAKER_04]: Imaginary, you,
59:27 --> 59:51 [SPEAKER_04]: that's funny because way back what was it last month or whatever two months ago when we did our feedback episode and we were talking about like oh wouldn't it be awesome to like play back in high school play the boom box everybody has to hear the music that identifies great it's like your projected fable so the imaginary audience is your personal fable as put forth into the world right is that right oh gosh wait till you hear what's spotlight effect
59:51 --> 59:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Is that that's like man characters syndrome.
59:53 --> 59:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, let's come back to it.
59:56 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_04]: So I think that might have come up and see some one brief Yeah, I'm sorry.
59:59 --> 01:00:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So what the stuff all day.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:03 [SPEAKER_04]: We need the AI to like like fine keywords and put them in bold and it's okay.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: This is great.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You're really starting to make some connections mark.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You're really rich.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm listening.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So
01:00:09 --> 01:00:22 [SPEAKER_04]: This song maybe is about the disconnect between the personal fable and your reality and you should be embracing that disconnect and not clean to the reality because we open, yes, there's this, he doesn't look a thing like Jesus line.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_04]: But there's also the,
01:00:24 --> 01:00:30 [SPEAKER_04]: You sit there in your heartache, waiting for some beautiful boy to save you from your own ways.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:32 [SPEAKER_04]: You play forgiveness, watch it now.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember the line.
01:00:34 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Here he comes or something.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:40 [SPEAKER_04]: We start from the perspective of someone who seems to be unhappy, right?
01:00:40 --> 01:00:43 [SPEAKER_04]: Fail relationship or something like that, loneliness maybe.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:50 [SPEAKER_04]: But the potential to make it impossible to get out of that because you are too stuck.
01:00:50 --> 01:01:00 [SPEAKER_04]: in your previous assumptions, your previous narrative, your myth making your fable of what your expectations tell you you have to need in that.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:04 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think it doesn't look like Jesus, maybe it wouldn't work.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:05 [SPEAKER_04]: But let's let go.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:08 [SPEAKER_04]: And the fact that the guys here is cut shorter like random flowers.
01:01:08 --> 01:01:09 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe he's all right.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea of personal fable really is not so much like the whole story that you're painting yourself into, but the idea that your story is unique and different than everyone else's.
01:01:20 --> 01:01:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That you're a spirit and an adolescent often feels this, that like, you're ruining my life.
01:01:25 --> 01:01:27 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the worst thing that ever happened to anybody.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_00]: These are common like tenants of adolescents, but really what the lyrics are telling this character in this story that he's singing is
01:01:36 --> 01:01:44 [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen this story before, like you need to get out of your own way and just let this person, this romantic partner be who they are, and that's going to help you.
01:01:44 --> 01:01:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking at this idea of romantic idealization, which happens quite a bit during adolescence, that you need like a savior for a partner.
01:01:52 --> 01:02:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And what the lyrics are telling this main character here is that you don't need a literal savior.
01:02:01 --> 01:02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You just need someone that's a good guy.
01:02:03 --> 01:02:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to help you out.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:15 [SPEAKER_00]: and we talk about this in the terms of like identity formation in terms of our romantic relationships and how they help build and foster our identity specific and adolescents.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:18 [SPEAKER_00]: That you start thinking that your identity is part of a couple.
01:02:19 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: When you can just be independent and have that couple, have that partner like support you and your own narrative.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I think he's for me to say as someone who's and has an absolutely perfect wife who could not ever be anything like.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I've met her, but she's ideal.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:43 [SPEAKER_04]: But I feel like people who struggle in adulthood with romance and things like that might be people that struggle to let the ideal become more realistic.
01:02:43 --> 01:02:44 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:48 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not saying that's the only reason someone might have love life struggles as an adult, but
01:02:48 --> 01:02:51 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, everybody has that friend or whatever who's still like God.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, nobody likes, you know, nobody likes me or I can't find the right person and like, you know, what people are flawed, right?
01:02:57 --> 01:02:58 [SPEAKER_04]: And not everybody's going to look like Jesus.
01:02:59 --> 01:03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why strippers are successful.
01:03:02 --> 01:03:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's stripper.
01:03:03 --> 01:03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's scratch.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:07 [SPEAKER_00]: No, because it's like, you're, it's an idealized version.
01:03:07 --> 01:03:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a character of a human woman.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So, or, or human male, that doesn't.
01:03:13 --> 01:03:21 [SPEAKER_00]: not complicated by that doesn't like leave their dishes in the sink or leave their dirty laundry around or like have trauma or death.
01:03:21 --> 01:03:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just an icon of a sexualized creature, which is maybe an adolescence what we're taught to look for.
01:03:29 --> 01:03:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And then as we get older, we realize, hey, no, we're all three-dimensional.
01:03:33 --> 01:03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And is that three-dimensionality that like creates long-term love and creates long-term bonding?
01:03:38 --> 01:03:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you realize,
01:03:39 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, if this person can love me even with my flaws or love me because of my flaws, that leads to like a richer relationship.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So in this story, we're hearing of a young girl that's I trying to idealize a partner.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't look a thing like Jesus, right?
01:03:55 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I was looking for.
01:03:56 --> 01:03:59 [SPEAKER_00]: But he still has depth and is a gentleman.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: We can love each other no matter what.
01:04:01 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the dissonance between what we're seeing melodically and the story that he's telling is we're trying to find balance both in the relationship and like the tension musically is kind of heightening that cognitive tension that we're seeing in this character.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is something that's pretty common of adolescent and early adulthood because your individual identity is still forming.
01:04:26 --> 01:04:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So how are you expected to pick a partner when you're not
01:04:30 --> 01:04:35 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's interesting too because I'm trying to think of what the perspective of the narrator of this is.
01:04:35 --> 01:04:38 [SPEAKER_04]: Is this an older brother, a parent of friend.
01:04:40 --> 01:04:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Would be ever because there's this sort of sense of almost advice, giving right and the that bridge, the devil's water it ain't so sweet.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:54 [SPEAKER_04]: I think you don't have to drink right now, but you can dip your feet every once in a little while.
01:04:54 --> 01:04:56 [SPEAKER_04]: So there's like this sense of like.
01:04:56 --> 01:04:59 [SPEAKER_04]: maybe not yet, but maybe just try and see how it goes.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:06 [SPEAKER_04]: Or maybe like, and the devil's what it's like, it's like a bad thing as opposed to that Jesus thing, but maybe that's actually what she needs.
01:05:06 --> 01:05:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe like as a teenager as someone that's
01:05:10 --> 01:05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's speaking to his younger self if you like change the juniors around a little bit, but this idea that maybe you need to make some mistakes in young adulthood and adolescents in terms of romantic partnership in terms of friendship in a more medicines, right?
01:05:25 --> 01:05:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That sometimes it's okay to have failed relationships and have bad friends and have people like at you into trouble because that while it can be fun, it teaches you, it puts you,
01:05:38 --> 01:05:39 [SPEAKER_00]: just like this song.
01:05:39 --> 01:05:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally is trying to like find the path.
01:05:43 --> 01:05:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think it's does actually.
01:05:44 --> 01:05:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It does.
01:05:45 --> 01:05:52 [SPEAKER_04]: The expectations being off of what you're like to that point of like the music theory telling us we should play the right toy.
01:05:52 --> 01:05:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Like that's not true.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And in this case,
01:05:54 --> 01:06:05 [SPEAKER_04]: The change of the expectation helps make the song work in the same way that like the advice he's giving is like maybe that like Even those wrong moments those bad moments will like find your path or whatever.
01:06:05 --> 01:06:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean some interesting bad things feel good.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what you had said that earlier.
01:06:09 --> 01:06:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes like bad sound bad quote bad sounds like feel good.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:19 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I like the sharp nine core to the beginning of your mind and that doesn't it's not a real like consonant core.
01:06:19 --> 01:06:20 [SPEAKER_04]: That's for sure.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But it just feels, it makes you feel whole and it makes you feel good.
01:06:23 --> 01:06:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes bad things in interpersonal need do too.
01:06:25 --> 01:06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's okay to have those experiences for sure.
01:06:28 --> 01:06:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of times, we have those experiences when we're young because fundamentally, our brains aren't developed enough to stop us from doing bad things.
01:06:40 --> 01:06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's not a personality trait.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: It's literally biology.
01:06:43 --> 01:06:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's that your brain pushes you to run the red light when you're a teenager.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like the point.
01:06:49 --> 01:06:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So you learn how to course correct moving forward and you learn how to regulate moving forward.
01:06:53 --> 01:06:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Is everybody still alive, Nicole?
01:06:56 --> 01:06:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Is everyone still alive?
01:06:57 --> 01:06:59 [SPEAKER_04]: From the red light you ran?
01:06:59 --> 01:07:00 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm not.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually was very cautious as a kid because of anxiety and trauma.
01:07:05 --> 01:07:08 [SPEAKER_04]: I definitely, accidentally, full on ran a red.
01:07:08 --> 01:07:10 [SPEAKER_04]: I've never on purpose run a red.
01:07:10 --> 01:07:14 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, counting the yellow turning in, like, let me take you to court.
01:07:14 --> 01:07:15 [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's a turning to court.
01:07:15 --> 01:07:17 [SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not, it's not, it's not.
01:07:17 --> 01:07:19 [SPEAKER_04]: Traffic, I feel like moves better when you do that, actually.
01:07:19 --> 01:07:21 [SPEAKER_04]: Keep things moving, don't unnecessarily clog up.
01:07:21 --> 01:07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I often would, like, stop at a stop sign waiting for it to turn green, like I would take off.
01:07:27 --> 01:07:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the reality.
01:07:28 --> 01:07:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, that is.
01:07:30 --> 01:07:30 [SPEAKER_04]: is funny.
01:07:31 --> 01:07:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I was more that kid.
01:07:33 --> 01:07:34 [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, don't get on by the week.
01:07:34 --> 01:07:49 [SPEAKER_04]: Don't play like, oh, well, yeah, I was going to say, don't play a lot of Mario Carter something and just like a grand theft auto and then go, okay, time to take the kids to somewhere because then you're like trying to like cut somebody off or throw a shell at somebody in the road.
01:07:49 --> 01:07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it messes with you.
01:07:50 --> 01:07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't thrown a shell.
01:07:51 --> 01:07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone driving for years.
01:07:53 --> 01:07:54 [SPEAKER_04]: So just to banana peel.
01:07:54 --> 01:07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:07:55 --> 01:07:55 [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
01:07:55 --> 01:07:56 [SPEAKER_04]: Anything good.
01:07:56 --> 01:07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I am.
01:08:00 --> 01:08:01 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, we're the Mario Kart.
01:08:01 --> 01:08:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we got it.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I have like two different Las Vegas anecdotes.
01:08:05 --> 01:08:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Do it.
01:08:05 --> 01:08:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So, one's a bummer, but there was some really interesting social science research from Amel Dorkheim.
01:08:14 --> 01:08:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Right when like psychology was coming up in like the 1900s.
01:08:18 --> 01:08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was talking about how Las Vegas has the highest rate of suicidality of anywhere in the United States.
01:08:26 --> 01:08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So that means like the most people who
01:08:28 --> 01:08:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Statistically like more people kill themselves in Las Vegas or try to then on any other place.
01:08:34 --> 01:08:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and the reason might be surprising It's not gambling loss.
01:08:38 --> 01:08:42 [SPEAKER_04]: It's not profound senses of loneliness, or whatever because you because of different.
01:08:42 --> 01:08:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know Well, you're close like it's definitely not gambling loss, but it's because Well, when you were talking about how these bands like formed in Las Vegas, my first thought was like who's from Las Vegas, right?
01:08:53 --> 01:08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Like who grew up there?
01:08:54 --> 01:08:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't really think of it?
01:08:55 --> 01:08:58 [SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's funny because we grew up in SoCal, right?
01:08:58 --> 01:08:59 [SPEAKER_04]: But I went to Vegas all the time.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:01 [SPEAKER_04]: But it's not because of that.
01:09:02 --> 01:09:08 [SPEAKER_04]: It's because my grandmother and my aunt moved there for like a while and like raised like my aunt raised her kids there.
01:09:08 --> 01:09:11 [SPEAKER_04]: Like, so we would visit how would go to like Thanksgiving in Vegas.
01:09:11 --> 01:09:12 [SPEAKER_04]: And we were together.
01:09:12 --> 01:09:15 [SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, whoa, it's cold in Vegas in November.
01:09:15 --> 01:09:16 [SPEAKER_00]: like hits differently.
01:09:16 --> 01:09:18 [SPEAKER_04]: It's just a different thing than going to, to be a tool.
01:09:18 --> 01:09:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:09:19 --> 01:09:36 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what Emil Dorkheim found with his research is there's a higher rate of suicidality in Las Vegas, not because of gambling loss or anything like that, but because it's so transient that people there don't have social support and social support, like will prevent suicide times when you have the hypothesis.
01:09:36 --> 01:09:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's like, that's what he, that's proved that he didn't have the high, he was just investigating it like ethnographically.
01:09:43 --> 01:09:45 [SPEAKER_00]: and there's a correlation at the time between him.
01:09:45 --> 01:09:55 [SPEAKER_00]: He determined the causal correlation between the transient nature of folks that live in Las Vegas full time and high rates of suicide atly.
01:09:55 --> 01:09:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So interesting, not quicky or fun.
01:09:59 --> 01:10:01 [SPEAKER_04]: So we need some bullion and music to come.
01:10:02 --> 01:10:02 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so yeah, give us that.
01:10:02 --> 01:10:03 [SPEAKER_04]: We can't end the podcast.
01:10:03 --> 01:10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm the new thing.
01:10:05 --> 01:10:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I used to sell stuff to our door, like framed our work out of the back of my car.
01:10:08 --> 01:10:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Did I ever tell you about that?
01:10:10 --> 01:10:10 [SPEAKER_04]: No.
01:10:10 --> 01:10:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I used to sell.
01:10:12 --> 01:10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I answered an end in the paper called hippies with the flow.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Come and work for us.
01:10:16 --> 01:10:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I'm a hippie.
01:10:17 --> 01:10:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I can do that.
01:10:18 --> 01:10:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:10:18 --> 01:10:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And I went to this warehouse every day and I picked up a bunch of framed Monet prints and put them in the back of my Ford Escort Station wagon and cold-cold solicited local businesses to start a sell these framed posters.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was so good at it, like so, so good at it that they tried to get me to drop out of college, which I didn't to join them full-time.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And they gave me an incentive trip to go to Las Vegas.
01:10:44 --> 01:10:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was 17 years old.
01:10:46 --> 01:10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe 18.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was a freshman in college, but I was younger.
01:10:51 --> 01:11:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So I went to Las Vegas and rode around to the limos and went to fancy casinos with middle-aged
01:11:00 --> 01:11:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to see Bob Dylan live there, but because I wasn't 21, I presented my fake ID, sorry mom, to go see Bob Dylan live, and they took it from me, they're like, I'm gonna see it.
01:11:11 --> 01:11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wasn't even trying to buy alcohol, the old men were buying that for me.
01:11:15 --> 01:11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to see, sorry mom.
01:11:16 --> 01:11:17 [SPEAKER_04]: I remember folk rock.
01:11:17 --> 01:11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just wanted to see Dylan, and they were like, this isn't you.
01:11:20 --> 01:11:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, it is.
01:11:21 --> 01:11:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just totally in a wasn't.
01:11:23 --> 01:11:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And they took my ID, was so pissed.
01:11:25 --> 01:11:25 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
01:11:26 --> 01:11:28 [SPEAKER_04]: Did you instead go to an 18 up show of the killers?
01:11:28 --> 01:11:30 [SPEAKER_04]: They would have been like in there.
01:11:31 --> 01:11:32 [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe early formation.
01:11:32 --> 01:11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is like, you know, just quote the killers, when you were young, you made some stupid decision.
01:11:40 --> 01:11:47 [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think that's that was the thing as though the most profound lyric that we should end the listeners on.
01:11:49 --> 01:11:52 [SPEAKER_04]: Grammar corrections can happen later with the AI.
01:11:52 --> 01:11:53 [SPEAKER_04]: Are we human?
01:11:54 --> 01:11:55 [SPEAKER_04]: Or are we dancer?
01:11:55 --> 01:11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Our dancer?
01:11:58 --> 01:11:59 [SPEAKER_04]: Question four.
01:11:59 --> 01:12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I think, in Vegas, I was trying to be dancer.
01:12:01 --> 01:12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Nevermind the music is hosted by Nicole Batcher and hosted and produced by Mark Poppinney.
01:12:17 --> 01:12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: You can email us at nevermusicquaditchimal.com and give us a follow on social media.
01:12:24 --> 01:12:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Never mind the music is also part of the Laura Hound's network.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Please join the conversation on their Discord server.
01:12:31 --> 01:12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.