Ch. 7 - The Eye

[00:00:00] This summer we enter a new era of Star Wars. You mean the Dawn of the Star Wars can't in timeline podcast? Yeah, yeah sure that too but I was obviously talking about the acolyte. We've got to cover that on the lorehounds.

[00:00:18] Oh but the Star Wars can't in timeline podcasts is exactly at that point in the timeline The end of the high-repeb-like 100 years before the prequel trilogy we've got to cover it there. Why not both? Okay, deal. It's the first live action Star War outside the Skywalker saga.

[00:00:37] Nobody can miss this. Listeners kick off your hot lore summer weekends with scene by scene break downs of the acolyte. Found in both, The Star Wars can in timeline podcast and The Lorehounds mother feed. And The Lorehounds Star Wars feed.

[00:00:51] Wherever you like to listen a couple of days after each new episode is released. Hello and welcome to episode 7 of Rings and Rituals The Eye. From the pain of a case series, Rings of Power I'm Sara Shield made in a row hand.

[00:01:28] And I'm Marilyn, the librarian of Rift and Del, and we're delighted that you've joined us. Today we'll again be reviewing what we mean by ritual and then applying those concepts to different examples of ritual that we find in this seventh episode of the TV series.

[00:01:42] We'll explore them using a set of questions to reveal how pain and decay depicted the cultures that they were adapting to their series. Be sure to get in touch with us. A discussion of two is an adventure, but we'd love to have more voices join us.

[00:01:55] And you can email us at Rings and Rituals at The Lorehounds.com or you can join our Rings and Rituals channel on The Lorehounds Discord. We'll include all that information in the show notes. And listeners, please take note.

[00:02:08] Believe it or not, we have only one more episode to cover after today's podcast. No! I'd say I speak truth here. We've also got a bonus episode which we'll tell you more about probably next time.

[00:02:21] We also intend to have a feedback episode so that we can incorporate all the feedback that we get from our final two episodes into one exclusively feedback episode. We must have your feedback by July 9th. Now that's a fair bit of way, so I think it's impossible, right?

[00:02:39] Because we intend to record the feedback episode on July 10th. So start thinking about what you haven't yet said that you would like to say in Send those in. Please do. And we also want to say that we are a proud affiliate of The Lorehounds,

[00:02:54] Barovian Broadcasting Network where you will find all sorts of interesting podcasts on TV, films, books, video games and other stories. Our thanks to all the listeners who support The Lorehounds and also rings and rituals through good ratings on Apple iTunes, which boost our visibility by joining the

[00:03:11] Lorehounds patron or supercast and from other forms of donation. If you like what we're doing here consider giving them a boost as well. Yes, please. So as our regular listeners know, we like to start with the review of our definition of ritual.

[00:03:26] Particularly for anyone who might be joining us for the first time. Sarah, what do we mean by ritual? So a ritual is essentially a repeated action. It's usually intended to recognize and or bring about change.

[00:03:40] And it often has symbolic content, although not always because anything that is a part of like a daily routine can also be seen as ritual such as walking the dog or a cleaning your teeth.

[00:03:54] So you know all of those sorts of things that are part of what we do on a daily basis. So it could be a form of making meaning, which does not have to be religious or spiritual. And I'll give you an example.

[00:04:05] Fireworks can be a ritual for celebration of many different sorts. I think fourth of July in the US or fifth of November over here where we celebrate blowing up our Parliament always fun. And you could also use it to create or reinforce communal identity, although there are also

[00:04:23] solitary and all personal rituals. But importantly, ritual gives structure and meaning to the unimaginable. And it can also include humour which can help one to bear the unbearable. In speaking of humour, I think there was an intent to blow a Parliament. I don't think it's a secret.

[00:04:42] Don't break my dreams in. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And if the FBI listening, I'm just joking. It's okay. Good idea. So we'll keep these points in mind as we describe each ritual and we even the following questions. What is the design of the ritual?

[00:05:02] What is the intent of ritual? What is the outcome? And particularly, what does it tell us about the culture and the individuals in the culture? So we're going to take a quick break now and when we come back, we'll bring you the meat.

[00:05:16] All the tofu for people like me who are vegan or vegetarian. Without the kueil sauce. Welcome back. We're going to review the ritual elements that we saw in this seventh episode. But to aid our listeners' memories, we'll also include a synopsis of events.

[00:05:41] Though, to save time, we may leave out one or two scenes or we may compile some out of order for the sake of continuity. Now please note, we are doing full unspoilers throughout these episodes.

[00:05:52] If that isn't what you want, go and binge the entire season and then come back and join us. Besides, for those who are interested, you're probably going to do that anyway because of something that's going to be dropping on August 29th. Hmm, yes indeed.

[00:06:07] So are you starting as often, aren't we? Yes, I shall. Galatheria Wakens, coded in ash to strange sounds and horrific images. The air is a thick red fog filled with the voices of people. Galatheria will hear his Theo and encourage his him to follow her.

[00:06:26] Is you'll go on in Valandil find that Antimal is dead. The queen tells them to leave his body and help a group of people who are trapped inside a burning building. As the people are leaving, sparks fall on Murio, winding her, and the roof falls on his silver.

[00:06:43] Just I just want to say, I was desperately sad when Antimal was killed, but he did have a bit of a red shirt on him didn't he? I'm afraid he did. He did with all of his talk with his fiance about, yeah, we'll be back.

[00:06:56] Yeah, I think her whatever it was he said. Bless him though, he was too sweet to be allowed to live along. Yes, too soon you left us, too soon. Poppy and the brand new foot family arrive at the Grove,

[00:07:10] only to discover that many of the trees have been destroyed by projectiles from the volcanic eruption. Satic says that fire mountains only wake again when a new evil is rising. The stranger tries to pour healing power into a tree.

[00:07:26] A harfots gather to watch and work, and Nori and Dilly are caught under a falling tree limb, but they are not hurt only scared. So it occurs to me, I don't know if we discussed this already or not,

[00:07:40] but it came up again for me to solve, bring it up again, if it is again. Is migrating itself a ritual? Oh, I think so. Yes, particularly when the kind of migrating the harfots do is so linked to seasonal change.

[00:07:57] Yeah, and they have a process about them migrating. Everything is done in a very particular way, in a very particular order at a very particular time. I think that's part of the definition of ritual isn't it? Yeah, yeah, and it definitely is something that builds a community,

[00:08:15] and keeps it together and keeps it whole. And puppies mother is walking song, song ritualy, it seems, because they keep asking for it, and possibly they have been asking for it for year after year after year.

[00:08:30] Right, the whole idea of walking songs again lends itself to this idea of ritual, bringing together community all performing the same act at the same time. And we keep getting hints that there are other harfot communities that they're supposed to eventually meet up with at some point.

[00:08:51] So it's not just this one group that we know, it seems, although I don't maybe they're migrating rituals are different, but there definitely a people that move. And it would make sense that there's more than one group for a number of different reasons.

[00:09:06] I mean, one because you just can't keep into marrying amongst a small group because not a good idea. But the second thing is, these are people who live off the land. And this is too many of them. They're going to strip the land in a very quick time,

[00:09:20] and there won't be enough food for everybody for the length of time they would need it in each place. Exactly. So that does kind of make sense, doesn't it? Yep, yep, yep.

[00:09:29] So perhaps Poppy's Badger Rock song, well they're entering into the grove is going to become a new ritual song. Right, I like that idea, and I'm wondering is it her own song? Or do you think it's another one of her mothers?

[00:09:44] I like to think it's her own song. I think it's, yeah, Poppy's of an age now where perhaps this is the sort of time when people start to come up with their own contributions to the community.

[00:09:57] But also, let's face it. Poppy is alone now in terms of family. And so she needs to start making her own rituals, her own personal way of getting through the world, if you like. It doesn't mean she's totally alone in the sense of there's no one around.

[00:10:14] Do we know that she's got Norris family? Right, but that's not the same is it? Of course not. How could it be? And in addition to not being the same, it also does nothing to a swage the absence of all those she has lost.

[00:10:29] I do find it mildly troubling that her song is one about grandfather in it or father inadvertently eating his daughter. But I guess that's just another example of her, if we're keen or what do you think? Yeah, well let's hope so.

[00:10:51] But I like to think that what better way to honour your mother who clearly is somebody who contributed to the community via things like this walking song by creating a walking song yourself. That is lovely and very much. Will you carry us to the next synapses?

[00:11:09] Well, it'd be my pleasure because it's the elves and the dwarves. Oh, I do love Elrond and Durin. Okay, so in this bit, Elrond tries to offer King Durin something sacred from the elves.

[00:11:22] Game, grain and adiador timber for the next 500 years in order to obtain something sacred from the dwarves, meathril. King Durin asks why they should trust the elves and Elrond says, in a fit of real honesty, well they should not.

[00:11:37] He says they should trust him because he is half-elven and he can see in elves that which they cannot see in themselves. The council is a impressed, but the King tells everyone to leave the room so he can speak with his son.

[00:11:51] Elrond and Prince Durin both realize this is not a good sign and they're right. The King says he will not help the elves because if their time has come, it has come. He will not risk dwarven lives to help the elves cheat death.

[00:12:06] Can I just say here, I love the way Elrond has turned what his fellow elves perceive as a disadvantage into a strength. Yes, I mean, to be honest it's one of the things that kind of itch me a little bit.

[00:12:22] This idea that being half-elven like Elrond is somehow less than, particularly when we realize what the other half that isn't elvish comes from. I cannot believe that the elves of this time would dishonor the memory of Elrond's father and mother in this way. It's yeah.

[00:12:46] And yet, this has been written in so we have to work with what we've got. And so you're right, it is good to see him take what is clearly viewed as something less than and make it into a strength.

[00:13:01] And I cannot imagine in my wildest dreams Elrond ever perceiving that his father is less than. No, it's just ridiculous, it's absurd. In effect, Elrond is the savior of Middle Earth. Right. And so what is there in that to be ashamed of?

[00:13:21] I mean, if anything, you know, he has half-elves half-star, if you like. Yes, I'm going to say, Medad's a star. Yeah. That's not something to be ashamed of at all. Oh and by the way, he has he does have one of the summerals. Yes, exactly.

[00:13:41] So that is something that it causes me problems with this storyline. But as we've said, we're working with what we've got. And so we see him here turning that around and making it into something that he believes actually makes what he's saying more.

[00:13:56] Well, and I wonder too, if the show wonders didn't include this particular story line deliberately. In recognition that there are many listeners and watchers who will have similar life experiences in cells. And Elrond can stand forth as someone who recognizes the strengths of having both of those perspectives.

[00:14:22] So, ultimately, entwined in himself. That does raise the problematic notion, though, that they first introduced the elves as being... ...con descending towards those who are half-blood?

[00:14:38] Well, yeah. And this is the thing that I must have trouble with in the legend, during a general, the way that blood becomes such an important factor both in the elves.

[00:14:49] But also, Erdogan, in the new Anorion line, it is something that crops up in the kinds of stories that Tolkien was drawing from. That's true. Blood does become a massive issue. But definitely not the issue of what comes out of an elf and human intermarriage.

[00:15:13] Because the issue of that, in other words, the children from that are held up as being something special, not something less than... Exactly. Exactly. And Tolkien makes a great point of that many times. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know.

[00:15:29] Yeah. You're right about the problematic nature of how he deals with the importance of blood, but that's not one of them. Yeah. In this instance, no. Well, thanks. Were you carrying on? Yes. Love too. Because it's my queen.

[00:15:44] It is a deesa. Who is furious? And can I just say she is magnificent when she's furious? Oh, she's just the force of nature. Isn't she? I now go to model myself on deesa, when she's... The her kind of fury, that's me now.

[00:16:00] I'm going to every time I'm furious and luckily that does not happen on the daily basis. I'm going to just do a deesa because... Okay. Wow. I'm going to keep my eyes on you. Watch the signs. Step back quietly if I see something about to erupt.

[00:16:19] Yeah, she has presence. Well, she's furious and she wants to force the king's hand, but Prince Doran refuses saying that would be a poor example to his own son. He has a point. King is the king.

[00:16:34] And if you're happy to, you know, just steam roll of what the king says and you're the prince, then you're really asking for the prince that comes after you to do exactly the same thing to you. And you're on a deesa, Greece.

[00:16:50] Then El Ronda arrives and without a word spoken, he realizes the answer is no. They say a difficult farewell. It's quite an emotional moment, this actually. Oh gosh, it is. Yeah. And go towards goodness is what the exchange, which is... Again, it's rather lovely moments. The touching moment.

[00:17:09] The translation of Namadee. Hmm. El Ronda returns the chunk of me thrill to Doran. Only to have Doran and Disa discover the me thrill actually does. I've a healing effect on the blightedly from Lindon. And Doran shouts for El Ronda to come back. Okay, so...

[00:17:28] With the elves here, do we see something we could point to as a ritual exchange of sacred materials? Or is this just simple bartering? The way El Ronda presents it, it does feel very ritualistic and heretic. However, he is the messenger, not the originator.

[00:17:54] And if I think of Gil Gallaud, I come to a different conclusion. Right. I think he knows the character of the dwarves. I think he knows that... And maybe it is just simple morality. You know, you know, gives something for nothing. It's very transactional.

[00:18:13] And he doesn't expect anything less than a transactional exchange. You might have other cultures freely giving between each other. But not in this instance, there's clearly been tension all along in dwarf elf relations. Not in excellence, I always say.

[00:18:34] So I think El Ronda is presenting it as an ambassador. Yes. And he's presenting it as someone who does honor the dwarves and does honor their culture.

[00:18:46] And yet, I don't know that we can call it a ritual because I don't think anything like this has ever happened before. And one of our key pieces of our definition of ritual is repeated. Yes. So this feels a lot more like I've never before and never again.

[00:19:05] Moment. It feels ceremonial. Okay. Yes. But that, as you say, is different, a ritual. Yeah. Yeah. Serimony often includes ritual, but in this case, I think he is being very, very formal as, you know, only both cultures can be. You know, both elves and dwarves.

[00:19:27] I mean, think of that lovely exchange over the dinner table. Two of them were utterly polite and, and oh, no, no. You go first. No, you go first. You know, that kind of false humility if you will. And both of them knew exactly what was going on. Absolutely.

[00:19:45] Saw through each other like a glass window. Yeah, but the ceremonial and formal aspect of this transactional exchange is important because this is a request from the hiking of the Noldore to the king of the dwarves.

[00:20:08] And so it must be made at a certain level to recognize the status of King Dore and to honor that status, whether you like them or not. Right. Right. And a King Dore in in refusing is not rude. I'm not saying, you know, elves are just awful.

[00:20:30] Now, you go, I don't care about you. Right. He asks good questions. Like, you know, why should I trust the elves?

[00:20:37] But this communication with El Rond as the go between it feels to me exactly as I would expect this kind of moment to go with that very formal language, very formal presentation of the request from the hiking. Yes.

[00:20:57] And the formality is in part to keep any animosity and check perhaps. Right. Yes. Because it's so much better when people are isolated polite. Well, as you can get to the end of your message without it all breaking down. Right. Yes.

[00:21:15] It's nice to get to the end of the message without having a knife at your throat. Or worse. Okay. Do you want to pick up on the next? I expect. Works room the shrouded desolate Southlands.

[00:21:28] Well, Galadriel and Theo hide from them while making their way back to the new minority in camp. Galadriel tells Theo that the destruction is her fault. But Theo won't believe her. Theo is convinced that everyone he loves is dead.

[00:21:44] But Galadriel tells him, quote, what cannot be known how is the mind? Fill it not with guesswork. When Theo rejoices that Galadriel has killed many orcs, she replies, quote, it darkens the heart to call dark deeds good. It gives place for evil to thrive inside us.

[00:22:04] Every war is fought both without and within of that every soldier must be mindful. Even I, even you, close quote. Theo asks if he is a soldier. Galadriel pauses and turns to look at him and then hands him her sword saying,

[00:22:21] perhaps we can make one of you yet. Hmm. So, I have to say this was the point when I really came to love this Galadriel, the whole journey that she and Theo make together.

[00:22:40] And I'm not sure it could have happened this way if it hadn't been for a daughter. And that conversation that they had before, if not all hell, then certainly the mountain broke loose. Because he finally showed her what was going on inside her.

[00:22:59] And every single thing she says to Theo touches on some point of that conversation. You know, what can happen on hollows the mind? Fill it not with guesswork, not knowing where's where's South on is not.

[00:23:14] And she's filling it with all the, well maybe he's here, maybe he's here, maybe he's here, maybe he's here. It darkens the heart to call dark deeds good. That's exactly what she's been doing. Hmm. As was pointed out to her, she was going to commit genocide. Yes.

[00:23:34] And that the nater of her fury, she was going to commit genocide and make ad to our watch her. And she real, the realization of evil can thrive inside us then.

[00:23:47] I mean, it just over and over and everywhere is fought both without and within of that every soldier must even eye must be aware. I mean, she's really, really having a metanoia here. Hmm.

[00:24:03] And being with this young man who could so easily be turned with his grief and his fury to the same path that she herself has been pursuing for who knows how many hundreds of years.

[00:24:15] She's doing what she can to try and alter that even though she is also saying, well maybe we can make a soldier right here. Right. What do you think? Yeah.

[00:24:26] To me it is very clear that the moment where she has that conversation with Adar is a very low point for Galagio because all of that anger and sadness and fury at everything. It all just vomits out of her when she's faced with Adar.

[00:24:48] But he really pulls her up short, tells her to look in her own mirror. Yes. And you know, I wonder what goes through her head when she walks away there, but it seems to have been quite the realization that she's heading down the wrong path.

[00:25:07] The other thing that I'd love to point to here is the way which so many of her words just feel like it's going to be a good thing.

[00:25:12] Just feel like Gandalf's words from the Lord of the Rings. He comes out with a lot of these sayings and of course they're rooted in wisdom.

[00:25:21] So the Galagio that we've seen up until this point, a lot of the time she said and done things that feel very spontaneous and with not a whole heck of a lot of thought behind them.

[00:25:35] Which you can forgive her considering some of the things that happen that she has to respond to. But she's had a bit of time to consider Adar's words.

[00:25:48] And this is an L-Fu has been around for a long time already and maybe this is a turning point, maybe this is a moment where Galagio starts to go down the path of wisdom instead. I think so. I do too, I really think that that is the case.

[00:26:08] She even her face has changed somehow and in the upcoming conversation that she has with Theo, I see an expression on her face that I have never seen before in this series. So I think a lot of things are being unlocked and softened and opened up.

[00:26:31] Yeah, I've heard a lot of complaints about the Galagio of this first series that she doesn't act like the Galagio in the Lord of the Rings and that was well no, of course not.

[00:26:44] The Galagio of the Lord of the Rings is quite a long way in the future and we all change, right? And even Galagio is allowed to have an impetuous youth and she's still in elf terms very young here.

[00:27:03] And she's been through a lot and lost a lot, and we do know of course from unfinished tales in particular that she was martial, that she was strong and determined and athletic and skilled.

[00:27:20] So I like the fact that there seems to be this kind of turning point moment here where we've seen that Galagio and maybe now we're about to see the beginnings of the other Galagio.

[00:27:36] But yeah, I don't see why the Galagio that we first see at the start of this has to be exactly the same as the Galagio in Los Lórien in the third age.

[00:27:46] Well, thank you can become the Galagio in the third age without having had a thousand or more years of experience of the sort that she is having now.

[00:27:57] I think what we are seeing is how that Galagio-Ladio of Lórien came to be and how she achieved her very hard one wisdom.

[00:28:08] And I'm okay with that. I am too. The one piece that I see is lacking at this point is because you mentioned Gandalf who of course was a Lord and in the West, who was a people of Niana.

[00:28:23] I have yet to seek a lot of the Galagio grave.

[00:28:27] And I think that has to be part of the process. So having, well, I won't mention the trees or because some people haven't seen it yet, but anyway, I think I think that has to be there at some point before she can have compassion.

[00:28:45] And we see her offer to the members of the Fellowship when they first arrive in Lórien and in particular to Gimli. Yes, yes. So she says perhaps we could make a soldier of you yet.

[00:29:02] What are we seeing about the rituals that make a soldier amongst the elves if anything? Well, the fact that she hands him her sword, her sword. Yes. It's so important. Yes. Is this part of becoming a recognized like knowledge soldier in Elven Culture that you receive a sword?

[00:29:24] One that is beyond like a practice sword that you've been hacking around with. But here is now your sword and you are now a soldier. I mean ideally everybody would have that time of practice and training and honing and then become, but someone like Theo has been thrown right into the middle of it. He's already had to witness death.

[00:29:49] He's already had to participate in fighting and he's very young. So it's not ideal. But the way in which she and it feels very ceremonial, which maybe linked to a ritual that the elves go through, in handing over a sword.

[00:30:06] This is a sort of importance because it's being handed down from somebody of great importance. It's like George Washington, sorry.

[00:30:12] I'll be what you said at US example. And think back to the ceremony of laying down the swords that we saw in the very first episode and that felt very ritualistic. So if you have that kind of ritual of the laying down of swords surely there's a ritual of the picking up being up of a sword.

[00:30:33] Otherwise they'd be an imbalance. I was amazed that Theo took it as well as he did. I mean I probably would have dropped it.

[00:30:44] The punishment and else giving their sword to a human. It was pretty impressive. Even in modern military there are rituals on passing out and becoming excited as a soldier.

[00:31:01] For example in the UK the Royal Marine Commandos. Once you have passed all the tests, once you have been accepted as one of them, you ritualy receive your greenberry.

[00:31:14] And you are shown how to put it on properly. And there is a way of wearing it. There is a ceremonial moment of receiving it.

[00:31:24] And from that moment on this is a marker of your acceptance into this elite unit. And I'm sure that other units have exactly the same sort of thing where you're presented with something it might be the regimental badge or whatever, but it's a ritual.

[00:31:42] I don't know what it's called in the US but over here in the UK it's called passing out.

[00:31:46] That sounds familiar to me. I'm afraid I'm not terribly familiar with military practice so I can't say for sure. So the Seniors write in. I'm sure there are plenty of you who know the answer to that question.

[00:31:56] I also thinking this is an amazing way to build community, which is of course the intent of ritual. You now know how to set your hat on your head correctly. Right there does a demarcation between you and the rest of the community who don't know it.

[00:32:18] Over you are joining a community. All of whom also know how to put that hat on correctly. Right and you only get to have that bury if you are accepted into that community.

[00:32:29] Otherwise you don't get to have the bury. Right. Right. And you've gone through all the exercises and trials and tests and all the rest of it to demonstrate your ability to take on the responsibilities of that community.

[00:32:42] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For Galadriel to hand Theo his sword here seems to me to be an acknowledgement on Galadriel's part that Theo has in some ways past some kind of testing other words he's gone through something is experience something and come out the other side.

[00:33:02] In a very similar way to the modern day military rituals that we were just talking about. Right, right, which is interesting as I'm not sure Theo would agree with her. Yeah. As an end yet with clear sight, I think she sees the potential in him.

[00:33:17] Yeah. Yeah. Okay, shall I carry on or do you wish to? Please. No, you carry on. Okay. So later Theo asks Galadriel if she has ever lost kin to the wars and she names her brother Finnrod and her husband, Kelliborn.

[00:33:33] Theo is astounded to hear that Galadriel can dance but that was when she met Kelliborn who went away to the wars and never came back. Theo tells Galadriel that he gave power to the enemy so that makes him responsible for the destruction.

[00:33:46] And Galadriel responds that this is one way to look at it but that she believes that the wise also look upon what is in our hearts and this outcome was not in his.

[00:33:55] She urges him not to take the burden of this day upon his shoulders because quote, you may find it difficult to put it down again.

[00:34:03] He asked how he's supposed to let it go and she replies that there are powers beyond darkness at work in this world and that they have designs of their own.

[00:34:12] Theo can't imagine how the loss of his home and his family can be to anyone's design and Galadriel admits that she cannot see it yet. A group of orcs come and they hide in silence until the troop passes.

[00:34:25] So this whole there is there are powers beyond darkness at work in this world. This seems to point towards some of the things we see in the Lord of the Rings that we might label Providence.

[00:34:36] For example, but of course for those in the know she is talking about Eluvitar the Valla. Right. But they're not present in middle earth, but that doesn't mean to say they're not doing things behind the scenes that have some effect upon what's happening in middle earth.

[00:34:54] Yes, I will admit to getting a little testy sometimes when people talk about the Valla just sitting behind their hills and doing nothing.

[00:35:03] I just don't think that's the case. I think they're constantly acting. We know that Elvimal is in the waters and occasionally does reach out to humans and bring about some changes.

[00:35:15] I can't imagine Manoe not taking some effect. We know that they do because they send the East out in the next age to finally contest with Sauron and take him out.

[00:35:30] So it is important, I think, to recognize that that is built into the fabric of Middle earth because as far as Tolkien was concerned it was built in the fabric of our world. Now you don't have to believe that or hold with that, obviously.

[00:35:43] But in the context of the story, it would be astonishing if that was not present. Right. And I think this was the thought in her mind when the volcano first started erupting and the paraclastic flow came towards her and she just stood there and shut her eyes.

[00:36:02] My head cannon of that moment is she was handing it over. She was saying, okay, this has gone way beyond my capacity to deal with. I will stand in obedience to whatever you want to send.

[00:36:19] I will take the wheel, arrow take the wheel. Whatever you want to send to me personally, right?

[00:36:24] I mean if there are anything she could do to fight it for not for the sake of everybody, I'm sure she would but she recognize this is way over my pig rates so you have to take it over. Yeah, yeah.

[00:36:36] And then also, the don't take the burden of the stay upon your shoulders because you may find it difficult to put down again. She took on a burden when she picked up that dagger from her brother's body. And she's never put it down yet.

[00:36:55] In fact, she was looking at it just before Theo asked his question about family. Maybe slight spoilers to the last episode, but maybe this explains why she's able to eventually hand that dagger over. I think so. I think we're meant to make that connection. Mm-hmm. I really do.

[00:37:17] So, not a ritual but still a question is collatial talking to herself as much or more as to Theo? What do you think? I really think that she is very inward turned at this point and saying aloud all of the things that she has been learning.

[00:37:40] And giving them to Theo almost as a gift as if to say, learned from me. Mm-hmm. And this is the epitome of wisdom. Right? You don't have wisdom if you haven't been through it. No. Sad but true. Yep. It only comes if you have faced suffering.

[00:37:59] And how much you bring in on yourself and how much it is put upon you in a sense doesn't really matter. It's the recognition and the acceptance of the learning that, and it's not about blame. It's not like, oh boy did I really screw up? No.

[00:38:17] It's recognizing that your choices have consequences certainly. Yes. Yeah. But also that you can still choose to amend as much as this within your power. Lay it down. Let it go. Yeah. Experiences knowing that you've made mistakes.

[00:38:36] Wisdom is moving on from them and not making those mistakes again if you can possibly help it and helping others not to make the same mistakes. Right. And so here in Theo I think we see her first individual with whom she has been sharing with them.

[00:38:57] I don't think this is the kind of interaction she's had very much if at all. It was a little bit like when she was talking with you, you'll learn on the ship on the way over. But there it was much more, I don't know.

[00:39:09] I don't want to say pompous but because everybody thinks the elder pompous. But given her centuries of experience and all the rest of it, it's kind of hard not to, you know, feel at least elder to younger, right? Right.

[00:39:24] You know, she was sharing. She was starting that image there somewhat because I think something in New Zealand or also got to share. She I think she has her perception from way back in the beginning. It's just she learns as she ages.

[00:39:37] What it is and how it could be useful and how she could use it to help others. Yeah. All right. You going to do the next bit? I shall. Elendial and other cavalry are guarding the passage of the remaining villagers to the new minority and encampment.

[00:39:58] He is looking anxiously for Isil Gour. When the queen appears on Belandil's arm, Elendial realizes that she has been blinded and gives her his horse to ride on. Elendial tells Elendial that Isil Gour is dead.

[00:40:14] Elendial confirms to the queen that he realizes that she is blind. She commands them to keep walking saying she does not wish anyone to notice. Then going back to the harfots, Sadok tells the stranger to walk to green with the great where there will be other humans.

[00:40:34] He gives him a copy of the constellation that the stranger is seeking. As they leave, the tree which the stranger has worked on now shows a single flower blossom inside the trunk. But no one notices. As he heads towards greenwood, Norrie gives him an apple.

[00:40:52] With no words of farewell, he departs the harfot camp. Anything you want to observe at this point, Sarah?

[00:41:04] Apart from the idea of giving him an apple, which occurs to me there is a lot that is built within the idea of handing somebody something like that as they leave for a long journey.

[00:41:24] There is a lot of symbolism wrapped up in an apple in that way, isn't there? It is a source of food, although it is small source of food and not for very long. It is symbolic of life.

[00:41:42] I would imagine for the harfots an important symbol of continuation that they have the food and they go out onto the road with what they have gathered. I am thinking about that, it is a big deal. The extension of community.

[00:42:06] You are leaving us here, let me acknowledge that you have been a part of our lives and we have been a part of yours. Of course, if you are familiar with the story of Adam and Eve, you can kind of riff on that.

[00:42:22] If you are familiar with the story, you can see that there is a lot of people in the world. I am not sure how strong the connection would be there, but for some people they might point it out.

[00:42:37] When the posters first appeared, the apple was the apple in her hand and a lot of people said, oh, apple, Adam and Eve. I am not sure that I see it. We can kind of read into things, however we want in the end, currently.

[00:42:55] Yes, it is called cognitive bias. It all depends on what stories are in your mind and which ones you hold to. Are you carrying on back in the oldest part of Haza-do? You are giving me during an Elrond again? I am. It is a great pleasure today.

[00:43:11] I know you will be very good to me. In the oldest part of Haza-do, during an Elrond attempt to open the new scene, even though the rock is restless.

[00:43:22] They stop to rest themselves and Elrond tells Duran that he allowed the dwarf to win the right of Sikintarag, so he could talk to him. I think we kind of guessed that didn't we? Yeah. Each one agrees that the other is much like their own race.

[00:43:38] Duran starts to tell Elrond his secret name, but Elrond deeply moved tells him to save it for the far side. Duran opens a hole into a massive scene of Mithril, just as the king, furious, appears and orders the scene to be shot.

[00:43:53] And Elrond to be evicted from Haza-do with his piece of Mithril. The king tries to reconcile with Duran, but is further incensed when Duran says that Elrond is as much a brother to him as if he had been fired in his own, mothers womb. Well, I know.

[00:44:10] And he removes Duran's collar of office telling him to leave it behind because it no longer belongs to him. Dacer is, I'm going to say, a little not happy about this. Okay, she's incandescent with rage.

[00:44:22] And she tells Prince Duran that he will be king and that the Mithril belongs to them. I had laid my best vibes right then, I'll tell you. I found those words somewhat ominous to me, Leonis.

[00:44:40] And the way they were like doing the glow in her eyes, kind of lighting treatment and so forth, I think they...

[00:44:46] I mean, I don't really feel the need to be reminded of Dacer's firing nature, but I think they wanted us to go them away with that, with it very firmly stamped in our imaginations. Oh, I agree. So go on. I know what you're going to ask me.

[00:45:04] Yeah, you do. What did Elrond mean by save it for the other side? Well, and Duran seemed to know exactly what he meant. Right. I don't. No, exactly. I mean, the other side of what? The other side of this problem?

[00:45:22] The other side of the wall, the other side of the world? I mean, don't really know to be honest. I feel like I should have an answer, but I don't. Not really.

[00:45:38] I mean, there's definitely a sort of a... a ritual moment here in that the revealing of your secret name. It's a big deal. It's something that you only do to someone who is, you know, so far in your heart that it's the only thing you can possibly do.

[00:45:56] It means to give them this most secret part of yourself. And Elrond won't take it. I find that interesting that he refuses it very gently and very kindly, but he won't take it from Duran. Well, I'm thinking now of original Caliguin's Earthsy series.

[00:46:22] And the fact that each person has when they come of age, they are given a name, which is their personal name, which they do not share with anyone except for those that they trust very deeply. And she even says that knowing someone's secret name can be a burden.

[00:46:46] And certainly it makes you vulnerable to that person. And I'm just wondering, was Elrond concerned that if at some point there was open warfare between their peoples? Would this be viewed as a liability to Duran and to his people?

[00:47:08] This is just coming up out of my head, maybe it's a lot of nonsense. But I just cannot make it make sense because if by either decide they mean death, I don't think either them could possibly imagine that they're going to see one another after death

[00:47:22] because they have two totally different concepts. Well, it happens to their various races when they die. Exactly. There is no coming together after death for an elf and a dwarf. Not in what they believe, not in what their cultures believe happens to them.

[00:47:38] I mean we know that for elves it is laid down that their fair will go to the house of Mandos and from there will be released back into the world in Hroa that with all memories and feelings etc. intact and preserved.

[00:48:02] And this is the serial longevity thing, which is different to being immortal. Unless you're fey and or in which case he's on the naughty step in Mandos for a very, very long time. Of longer than any mortal mind can conceive I think. Yes, that's so he should be.

[00:48:18] But the dwarves don't believe anything like that. No, no they go to Mandos in separate halls. So they decide for them and they just sit and wait until the final battle and the ending of the world and then they help. How old are they rebuild it all?

[00:48:36] Right exactly and it's all about how they and his provision for them. Yes, so it's a totally different system. So the idea of it being on the other side of the, I don't know, curtain of death if you like that makes no sense at all.

[00:48:50] No, so possibly the other side of the long lengthy conflict between Elis and Dors? Yeah, but that's been going on for thousands of years. I know it seems very optimistic but then we're talking Elis around here, you know?

[00:49:06] When you consider what his family said is an example for him in terms of holding out hope and so forth. I don't know. I don't think it was anything crazy like, you know, the other side of the seamer. Yeah that would seem a little bit boring wouldn't it?

[00:49:24] Yeah, and went until with the other side of this rock then you can do it. Or the other side of the current crisis that we're in. That was the only thing that sort of makes sense but even so doesn't really know.

[00:49:40] It feels like some a line he was given because it sounds, you know, grand in some way but I don't really know what to make of it. No and in the closest we come to what you were talking about earlier was when.

[00:49:56] Legolas takes his dear friend, Gimly with him when he sells West, but it's made clear in various places that, you know, only after they got Galadriel's permission.

[00:50:08] He wants to take a lap and so Galadriel talked to the authorities to say, yeah let's let this door come or because he's. He's a very elved war if I mean they do seem to be pulling resonances from that relationship for this relationship. Oh yes yes.

[00:50:26] Yeah even beginning it in a kind of antagonistic way certainly from the point of view of Prince Doran. And then making it clear that they are you know the best of friends.

[00:50:37] Yeah I wonder if Elran just possibly imagining that when he sells West, he can have door and with him like that. I just also seems really unlikely. I that just doesn't know. No I can't see that.

[00:50:50] I mean at this point in the second age there is no intentional Elran's part of sailing West anytime soon anyway exactly. Which a lot of other elves I've kind of overlooked forgotten or never known. I don't know. Yes anyway we do have one other ritual here we do.

[00:51:10] Doran disinteroting his oldest son by removing his. Crest or neck plate or collar whatever you want to call yes that apparently I didn't know this until now does ignate him as the air. Right right.

[00:51:26] So this is clearly part of the ritual of designating you as the air you get the neck plate. If you're being disinterited they knicked the neck plate back off you. Yeah so yes this is clearly ritualistic. But what an awful moment. Yes done in anger and in impulse.

[00:51:49] Yeah not even my dear. Does does might the king eventually. I don't know. I think that what he perceived as the horrible insult to his wife and to himself. If you think about it, you know the implication being that King Doran would sire at an elf.

[00:52:10] I mean I think. Doran doesn't know how exceptional he is. In his views of the elves and of Elran in particular. And he's just forgotten it in the moment of his.

[00:52:28] He'd and emotion and so forth and you know if you ever needed any evidence that you know there are father and son just listen to the word you sometimes. Oh yes, very clear. Yes it is. Very closely related incredibly stubborn and very strong will.

[00:52:48] But they're coming at the problem from totally different points of view. And the fact that King Doran is so insulted by the idea of Elran being a brother of any kind to his son tells you that this dwarf elf antagonism is baked in.

[00:53:09] It is I mean we have a word for that. And it is a form of racism isn't it? Sure. Yeah. And Prince Doran, no more understands his father's point of view on this than his father understands his son. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:26] There is a complete separation there which is then enacted by this to me ritual removing of his crest because. But do you know when this sort of thing happens between parent and child, only one really loses out.

[00:53:41] I mean it's awful for both sides but the parents lost here driven by the anger and the rather impetuous decision to disinherit his son. Who's the one who's going to be regretting this the most?

[00:54:02] Because Prince Doran believes he's in the right here and is just going to be angry at his father's disinheriting of him. Yeah, I don't know. I just think that you know for a parent to do something like that.

[00:54:19] One of the things about being a parent is you are the adult in the room and you're the one who's not supposed to lose your rag. Right? Okay. Yeah, not having been apparent myself.

[00:54:32] I was thinking it would be you know equal on both sides but I definitely take your point. Yep the parent is supposed to be the one with more wisdom.

[00:54:41] Mostly we will be in other parents I can tell you that does not always hang true and well yeah not in all occasions right? I mean wisdom is not all encompassing.

[00:54:53] It's just grievous on both sides I think and I've never comfortable with comparing pain and two people or more you know who feels it the most or whatever it just.

[00:55:08] It depends on so many things but I hear what you're saying about expectation of the role and how that can also affect. Any regret that you might feel right yeah yeah and it really does make me wonder looking ahead.

[00:55:30] How this is going to continue to unfold didn't even know that Doran had a younger brother although Disa does mention him when she assures Doran that he is going to be during the fall I just hope he's not called Doran because then we're going to get totally confused.

[00:55:46] That's complicated. That's a little complicated. Should I carry on? Yes please. Upon waking the next morning nori is astounded to discover the stranger's magia has worked not only on the one tree that he healed but throughout the entire Grove producing more fruit than they've ever seen before.

[00:56:11] The Hissy sisters find the harfoad camp that night along with traces of the stranger on the tree he healed. No way tries to protect the stranger by telling them that he went a different way from the path of their following.

[00:56:25] In return the trio you sir go it to set fire to the harfoad camp and disappear. The next morning law go insists that whatever the challenge harfoads just keep on going with our hearts even bigger than our feet.

[00:56:43] Nori decides to go after the stranger to warn him that he's in danger. Poppy, marigold and sadduck decide to go on with her and for once even Malva agrees. Dear Malva. I know. Classic crown figure there. Right. And in the opinion, I was right except when she's not.

[00:57:02] That's the granny where the wax of this particular universe. Absolutely. Absolutely. So somebody is obviously chosen to be the trail finder for the harfoads. You would assume it would be sadduck all the time because he's the one with the book.

[00:57:20] He's the one who understands the constellations but it seems that on occasions they can choose another trail finder. But who gets to be the trail finder and how do they choose them?

[00:57:31] Yeah, I found it interesting that the three of them were prepared to go off alone until Malva says tassaduk. Belmita trail finder. So it seems to be an official position in some respect. Certainly you have to be able to read the documents.

[00:57:51] And we see a little reference to that in the final episode. I want to assume that you're not going to give it, you know, to the youngest harfoad or, you know, the younglings before they learned a few things.

[00:58:07] I don't know if the book gets passed on through family. I mean like like pop these mothers song. I'm not sure you could do that because how heritable is being a trail finder. I mean, all the skills that are involved with that.

[00:58:21] You have to have a good memory. You have to have migrated on the trail both directions at least once and you have to be able to read the stars. You have to read the stars.

[00:58:31] You have to know when things appear and don't appear like when the very first time they saw the humans hunting and then they saw the wolves and not.

[00:58:42] So I was looking at something that was incomprehensible to my eyes and saying, well, you know, this is, this has never happened before that the wolves have come this early or the hunters have come this early or would I get me over the exact lines.

[00:58:54] So I would assume that some form of apprenticeship or special education would have to be involved. How do you decide who has the right spot? Certainly someone like. Nori is constantly curious, but does that mean she'd make a good trail finder? I don't know.

[00:59:13] She certainly is always often going off on her own. So she has no difficulty doing that. Right. There's no indication that Saddok has wife and or children actually not yet. No, there will hear something about that in the final episode.

[00:59:32] And in the final episode we'll also see sort of a partial answer to this question that we posed. And I just wanted to put in a little PS here and, and I hope you'll forgive the indulgence with this is especially for my colleague John L'Arhound.

[00:59:49] The large feet of Hobbits were basically invented by the brothers held a branch. And the brothers, Greg and Tim, because of their illustrations they were one of the very earliest illustrators of the Hobbit and one of the rings.

[01:00:03] And for whatever reason they envisioned all the Hobbits with very large feet. And the only reference I can think of in any of the legendarium was to the proud foot who put his feet on the table at Billville's birthday party.

[01:00:19] And he was described as having large feet. But to the best of my knowledge, I've never heard of another one. So, and that it's funny isn't it that it's been accepted as canon and yet like all other descriptors of character.

[01:00:36] You can look for it in vain in the text, you know, because Tolkien as we know was extremely good at describing landscape and weather and all of that kind of thing.

[01:00:48] And even inside of ins, but what he doesn't do is describe characters. He doesn't say that the Hobbits have great big hairy feet. And of course this was taken by Jackson and it was exaggerated.

[01:01:05] By the time we got to the Hobbit films and I won't mention them for long don't worry. I don't know how Martin Freeman was able to even walk in those things because they look like flippers on the real estate. They were ridiculously big. They really were.

[01:01:24] Yeah, there were a little bit of so much about the Hobbit films that were silly but don't get me started. Yeah, we can come back to this. No, please let's not. Let me do a whole episode of me just grumbling about the Hobbit films.

[01:01:39] No, no, I might come back to our text here. Yes, okay, there's probably a very good idea. Yes. So you take us back to the new minority in camp? I will because meanwhile back at the new minority in camp, Ellen Deals sets a distressed, Berek free.

[01:01:56] And the horse heads back for the south-run village. Ellen Deals says he should have left the elf in the sea where he found her. Theo and Galadriel arrive at camp and he finds his way to the medical tent where he reunites with his mother and out on deer.

[01:02:09] And Galadriel asks for my deal. Bronwyn takes her to the queen, seated atop one of the hills where Ellen Deals just told the queen that they can be ready to depart in an hour.

[01:02:19] And that a garrison will be left behind to attend to their own wounded and of the south-landers.

[01:02:24] Miriel tells Galadriel not to pity her, and she swears by the adun egg name of her father that she will return to confront her enemies who do not know what they have begun. Galadriel replies that the elf will be ready, but a lendy alternative way and weeps.

[01:02:45] So what do we see here that we think is ritualistic? Well, outside of the medical tent, which, of course, is where Theo looks first for his mother knowing her commitment to that skill that she has.

[01:03:00] I'm pretty sure that these are new menorians who are enacting this because their clothing is more formal. They're just their appearance as contrasted with the Southern's. Looks more new menorian.

[01:03:13] And we see some bodies shrouded bodies outside the medical tent and there are people who are smudging them with incense, which also reminded me of the ritual, a spurt just that the Catholic Church performs with bodies before they're buried. And then she lays a bouquet upon the body.

[01:03:35] So that bouquet or it actually was a branch and I'm just this minute wondering if that isn't sort of a symbol of the branch of returning. Right. Possibly even from the same tree. It does seem to be a cool back to that, doesn't it?

[01:03:54] Yeah, possibly. I don't know. As I say, I just jumped into my head because you know, I'm sure they have plenty of herbs they can use but no. This particular one. So that symbol.

[01:04:05] Smudging the shrouded bodies with incense, apart from being very clearly ritualistic, is that to cleanse the body in some way? Do you think? I do. Energetically, I mean, to this day, people will sludge themselves within sense as the means of ritualic cleansing themselves before they participate in ritual.

[01:04:28] Perhaps it's a cleansing of the soul for past deeds. Certainly soldiers who were killed in battle would want to be cleansed of any potential evil or wrongdoing that people might perceive and in what they did or what they might perceive and what they did.

[01:04:50] I don't think it has much to do with, you know, just the fragrance that comes from a dead body. I don't think there was enough therapy, you know, alter that in any way. Too soon, I suppose as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[01:05:03] I presume there would be the intent of taking the bodies of the slain new anorians back to new anor rather than leaving them there. I can't imagine they would leave them there. I absolutely think they would.

[01:05:16] Sadly, they'd have more room in the hole, not only because of the lost soldiers, but also because of the horses that were killed. Yes. And I'm sorry. I'm not laughing at that. I know you're not.

[01:05:27] I'm remembering a conversation about what size with these ships have needed to be. Yes. Yes. And the just-dad water. Pre-strand courses. Sorry to inject humor into a moment of, you know, I don't know, important ceremony.

[01:05:42] Well, remember what we said, you know, humor helps to be at the unbearable. Very, very true. And there's something that I found very interesting about this because, Miriel swears by the adunayic form of a phantist name. She says, yes. Are in Zilladoon. Why the adunayic? Yeah.

[01:06:00] Miriel was one of the faithful. It's a very song for a moment and a very frightening one to me. Because of that switch of that choice. Mm. She is standing knowingly before people who are definitely on the side of the else.

[01:06:16] And Ellen Dill has more, well, I guess that comes a little bit later. But more or less, I think she knows that he knows and he knows that she knows and so forth. Both of them are, you know, secret, lay, loyal to the value of the else. Mm-hmm.

[01:06:36] And so for her to switch to the adunayic form, The only comforting thing I could think of was that possibly in present-day Numenorov, as not considered to be viable unless you make it in adunayic.

[01:06:54] Because of they both, we'd be going back to the unfinished tales there and understanding The moment in time that we're at with Numenor in which we are, We're in a time in which Elvish is no longer being used and that the elves are no longer received

[01:07:16] as friends of the Numenorians. They're barely received at all, right? I mean, it spends such a long time since the north has been seen on the island. When Galatriel steps ashore, she's the city sure of all eyes as they say.

[01:07:31] Everybody is staring at her and she's not terribly comfortable with it for obvious reasons. So that again, that just occurred to me now but I was afraid that it could mean that she is herself beginning to turn away from the path of the faithful, although next episode, spoiler,

[01:07:53] we will hear something to the contrary which I tend to believe is the truth. It may just be a reflection of her fear, anger and grief and her desire for vengeance.

[01:08:08] And Elvish, obviously tears must be close to the surface for him because of he assumes his son is dead. But is he crying also because this is going to mean for their warfare? Is he crying because she uses Adunaiak? Yes, it's not clear at this point is it?

[01:08:32] No, we're just crying for the loss of it all. I don't know. But it's meant to be taken as a very significant moment. I agree. Moving on to another significant moment.

[01:08:51] Galatheria learns from Bronwyn that Helbran has been seriously injured and I'll just stop here to say it's very interesting to me that Helbran has not been on Galatheria's mind once. As far as I know, she's being a little busy. Yeah, let's know.

[01:09:07] Upon seeing him, Galatheria says that he needs Elvish medicine and so they both prepare to ride to Linden. Helbran says that this is not over that neither he nor Galatheria will abandon these lands to let them burn.

[01:09:20] Bronwyn leads the South Lenders in the cheer of strength to the King as he and Galatheria walk to their horses. Theo tries to give Galatheria a her sword back, and she tells him, keep it soldier. He salutes her calling her commander, which Helbran watches with interest.

[01:09:41] As the two of a set off, Theo shouts strength to the Southlands. And then we do see this very interesting parallel between what the Southlanders do upon being told that Helbran is their King.

[01:09:59] And what we saw in a previous episode with what the orcs were doing for Adar, right? It's a mirror image. And this is not the first time we've seen mirror image being used to give a sort of a significance to something.

[01:10:16] So here, the Southlanders form a double line and they bow to Helbran, just the same as the orcs did for Adar. And obviously that has to be important. Watch where it's taken note. Indeed. So anything else from that last section that we should note, Marilyn?

[01:10:43] Well, there's just a lot there that I'm very curious to see how it's going to all play out. And I had not noticed until this most recent watch, the way that Helbran is staring at Theo.

[01:10:55] And that's kind of contributing to a number of personal theories that I've been building about who and what Theo will become, but we'll save that for the future.

[01:11:03] Well, yes. I think we will have to return to that at some point in the future because it's been noted so often, where's Theo's father? Who is Theo's father? You know, all that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so I'm going to return to King Durant.

[01:11:23] There we go. Because he has found the completely healed leaf from Lindon's tree, but he tosses it into the mehriul scene, ordering the other dwarves to seal it up. The leaf travels a long way through this scene to land before a... Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't.

[01:11:41] And it bursts into flame. And the bow rug is not pleased. Well, would you be? It's like having the alarm clock go off far too early. He possess an interesting thing. I just thought he was a real neat neck and was insensed.

[01:11:53] Well, there's that as well. He's a tiny rubbish. This is like, this is my bedroom. You know, hello. Root. So we obviously have that moment of... No!

[01:12:08] Because it's a ball rug and those of us who have read other works by Tolkien will have heard the phrase Durant's Bane. And I'd like to put the phrase Durant's Bane next to the phrase check-offs gun.

[01:12:23] Because you can't just have a ball rug and then not do anything with it. So we're talking about... That's just a little point in the future. I expect that ball rug to make some kind of appearance. Otherwise, that's the point.

[01:12:38] So anyway, we leave check-offs gun annoyed at the leaf because we travel back to Adar, where in the middle of the Achey red land that he has managed to create, Adar tells his children to take off their outer protective clothes because the sun will no longer bother them.

[01:12:56] And Waldreg... Not a good band. Waldreg leads a hailed-to-hour lord of the Southlands, but Adar says that place no longer exists. While Waldreg leads a chant of Adar's name, we watch the screen as the name Southlands, is replaced with the name of Waldreg. Southlands was just before door.

[01:13:20] Yeah, so it's not going to be... I don't know, East Gate or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, I almost wonder why it was... They felt to be necessary. I suppose there could be viewers who don't know from Tolkien, who are watching this for the first time. But...

[01:13:42] I don't know. I guess it was dramatic effect. It's a music effect. We already knew this. You know, we've created for some intelligence, please. Right, but I mean, okay, on this occasion,

[01:13:55] I might be a little bit on the side of the show runners because they have to try and find a way to communicate with such a very wide range of people.

[01:14:05] Those of us who have read Tolkien over decades have written about his work, have podcasted about his work. Have taught his work, right? All the way through to those people who've never read anything Tolkien, they might have watched the Jackson films and that's it.

[01:14:24] So I think that they are having to try and find a balance because if they assume everybody has great knowledge of Tolkien, they're going to leave behind those. They can't do that. And they want to appeal to a vast range of people.

[01:14:40] On the other hand, if they do too much that is kind of babying the audience, those of us who know a lot about Tolkien and a company sitting there going, well, that was a bit blooming obvious. Why did you do that?

[01:14:50] So that's... That is an actual problem for the show runners that I can understand because how do you find the appropriate balance without annoying one extreme or the other? No, no. I've appreciated the problem since the beginning and up until this moment felt

[01:15:08] that they had done really a pretty good job of it. I just... I listeners if there were any among you who had never heard the name order before this or had not made the connection before this, please write an in-class ties me gently in a friendly fashion

[01:15:24] so that I can recognize that yes, this is certainly a possibility. But... And it was beautiful script. It was lovely script. Oh yes, great calligraphy. I can't fault them on that. So we could have some feedback. We're going to take a break now and then we'll come back.

[01:15:55] Okay, Marlin, I understand we've had some more feedback this week. Is that right? Indeed, we have one of which is a wonderfully long and detailed and thought-provoking email by TriangleLox91 and I hope you're not too disappointed, but I'm going to save this one

[01:16:13] for our final feedback episode because I want to approach it fresh and we want to have plenty of time to go into it because there were some lovely details. So that's something for you to look forward to.

[01:16:24] Yeah, we want to do that one justice, don't we? Because it really is a lengthy piece of feedback. It is. So we have a couple of other pieces here.

[01:16:33] We have Ithren-Dur, that's how I'm going to pronounce it. If it's pronounced differently, please do write it in correct me. From the PPP discord, who writes, I really appreciated the insights into Waldreg and the discussion of the different types of magic.

[01:16:48] Well good, I'm really glad we did use those terms in today's episode. So you could see some of the differences actually demonstrated between the two. So would you like to take the next one? Yeah, so from Ihope via email.

[01:17:05] And they said, I know I'm way behind, but as I commented on discord and thanks for doing that too. I love that we're hearing about unfinished tales. I'm a two. I love the unfinished tales.

[01:17:15] Yes, some scenes I wanted to gush about when you came near the ritual of the airs of an arion and the Hallephidian in the section headed the tradition of Izildor. And here they are quoting from the text.

[01:17:31] Izildor gave this council to Maneldil that the king should visit the Hallephidian from time to time, and especially when he felt the need of wisdom in times of danger or distress. And there he should also bring his air and tell him of the making of the Hallephidian.

[01:17:48] Of course the whole scene of Kiri on Aeol is amazing, says Iyhup. Aeol laying his sword across the tomb of Elendil, the words are both on and on.

[01:17:56] And the other is at the death of Sayyidin, which I normally revisit because the scene of Aeol mer over Aeol in. And here's the quote, death, death, death take us all. And they point out this is from the books and not film. Thank you Marlin.

[01:18:13] But you also have the ritual of Sayyidin passing the king ship, Hale Aeol mer king via the standard of the king. My new revelation on this scene is that Sayyidin king was born in Gondor, mother a classic regal house of Bayor type Nuanori and Lady,

[01:18:29] even sharing the name of Turens mother, which is more than. Passes the king ship willingly before death, Hale Aeol Numanor, even if he isn't aging out, I'd like to know if that's mentioned in letters, which I really must review one day.

[01:18:43] Perfect contrast, Denathor clinging, Sayyidin passing freely, great characters. Okay, so do we have a follow-up to that? Well, this is just really wonderful observation. He opened thank you so much for highlighting the contrasting deaths of these two kings and reminding those who knew it.

[01:19:06] But also telling people who might not have known that Sayyidin was born in Gondor, which his mother was Gondorian, and so there has been this connection between Gondor and Ruhan. For quite some time it goes back earlier than that too, but even just most recently this.

[01:19:25] He had always planned on passing the kingship willingly. I mean he does name Aeol Marus his heir before the battle. And some people might quarrel with you know was it willingly because you know he was on his last breath and so forth.

[01:19:42] But I like your point, I see what you're saying. I think it applies and I do like contrasting those two characters very much. I did do a really quick run through the letters index because you did ask if talking you'd ever written about this.

[01:20:00] And there is a reference of something that between the line of kings Ruhan as spoken at the funeral feast and was also listed in the appendix. But it doesn't highlight the willingness of the passing on that way.

[01:20:17] And he didn't definitely didn't contrast it with you know, Jennifer was taking up his own life. So great observations. Thank you so much for sharing a little more insight with us. Yes fantastic and I too like that contrasting of Denithor and Thayadin.

[01:20:39] Thayadin who seems to be despairing at the start when we first meet him. But then he finds himself again and he embraces the moment and leads his, his, Ruhan into the charge is Aeol Red. And his death is according to the culture is a glorious one.

[01:21:04] He dies in battle. Exactly. Whereas Denithor, he despairs and what is it that Gandalf says about despair? It's only for those who see the end without doubt. Without doubt. Beyond all doubt. And Denithor despairs invoking the heathen kings and all sorts of things along the way.

[01:21:27] And his death is ignominious as a result. At the least. Yeah. And also let us say it must have been very traumatizing for his only surviving son. I don't know your. Yeah, because of all the the residences you were just describing. Yeah.

[01:21:44] Quite apart from the fact that Denithor tried to burn far away or alongside him. Well, that too but we hope nobody retails in that although perhaps I don't know. I'm usually one for being honest and open and above board.

[01:21:55] But you know, sometimes there are things that I really don't need to know. But waking up covered in oil is probably. Well, that's true. Although I don't know that he did wake up. Hopefully they changed his garments before he walked out of the wreck. Yeah.

[01:22:10] Particularly in a house that has to use open flame. I mean, come on. Yes. Yes, indeed. So thank you, Gany, whoop. That was wonderful. And then we have. Stephen Fries Carter from the long expected soundscape discord channel. Saying I just subscribed to rings and Mitchell.

[01:22:32] Thank you so much. I'm glad to have you. Welcome. I've been looking for more rings of power podcasts. Most of mine are just general Tolkien or have gone dormant. So we are not dormant. We are living.

[01:22:43] We still have a couple more in us and I hope that you will enjoy them all. Stephen Indeed. And even when it might look like we've gone dormant, it's simply hibernation because we will come back at some point after the second series and do a similar podcast.

[01:22:56] I'm just going to give it a little bit of time in between the end of the second series and restarting the podcast. So always look out for us dropping new episodes in the future. Yes, I could not look upon season one as we have been for this podcast

[01:23:10] in the immediate aftermath of it. I really needed time to get back to the first episode of the podcast. I think that's a great idea. We have been for this podcast in the immediate aftermath of it.

[01:23:21] I really needed time for things to marinate and to find the things that I could really connect with. And as I have said before, that that heartwork ritual of harvest was the thing that really drew me in the most and created the whole concept.

[01:23:39] So I suspect we won't need to leave it quite as long as we did in between the end of series one and the beginning of us doing rings and rituals. Probably not. Probably not. Probably not.

[01:23:51] But still there'll be a little bit of a gap while we gather our thoughts and then we'll be right back because you will certainly be busy doing week to week podcasts as the things drop and I expect to be doing a few podcasts with the war hands.

[01:24:02] Often on. So we'll we'll have chances to hear our voices if that's what you really. Oh, I'm afraid there's no kidding rid of us. No, we're getting away from Marilyn and Sarah. There we go. Okay, so that's it for this episode.

[01:24:18] Please write in the letters no what you think any suggestions you might have for rituals for us to talk about and anything else you'd like to share with us. We welcome your feedback don't forget by July 9th at rings and rituals at the

[01:24:31] lawhounds.com or on the lawhounds discord server where we have a special channel set up just for rings and rituals. On the lawhounds website there is also a contact form and voice mail feature.

[01:24:44] Look for the contact us link at the bottom of the page we've never had anybody use the voice field feature but that's alright, you know, I enjoy reading the written ones that come in. Absolutely. And we plan to be publishing every other week from now through July 10th.

[01:25:00] So also be sure to check out the other podcast supported by the Barovian Broadcasting Network. Such as radioactive ramblings with Aaron and Chase doing fallout and invincible. Properly how would move a review with Steven Anthony and their currently reviewing felonies and fugazies.

[01:25:16] Will shift dust with Alicia and her latest podcast Star Wars cannon timeline podcast. And of course John and David on the main lawhounds podcast currently reviewing season one of House of the Dragon in advance of season two in June among other goodness.

[01:25:33] And links for all of these are also in the show notes. Our thanks to our recording engineer and editor, Bob, to David and John our producers and to John for arranging our theme music as well as all the others who support us along the way.

[01:25:47] Now if you would like to support us and the podcast please rate and review us on your pod capture of choice although Apple really gets the algorithm going in our favor. Oh, find us on supercast or on patreon patreon.com for more.

[01:26:01] Subscribe as we'll get access to add free versions of all the podcasts as well as other benefits. Until next time then remember only you can show what you are. You choose by what you do. Nakameen until we meet again. How far? Farewell for now.

[01:26:40] This summer we enter a new era of Star Wars. You mean the dawn of the Star Wars cannon timeline podcast? Yeah, yeah sure that too but I was obviously talking about the acolyte. We've got to cover that on the lower hounds.

[01:26:52] Oh, but the Star Wars cannon timeline podcast is exactly at that point in the timeline that end of the high republic 100 years before the prequel trilogy we've got to cover it there. Why not both? Okay, deal. It's the first live action star war outside the Skywalker saga.

[01:27:11] Nobody can miss this. Listeners kick off your hot lore summer weekends with seen by seen breakdowns of the acolyte found in both. The Star Wars cannon timeline podcast and the lower hounds mother feed. And the lower hounds star wars feed.

[01:27:25] Wherever you like to listen a couple of days after each new episode is released.