Agatha All Along – S01E04 – If I Can't Reach You / Let My Song Teach You (MCUniverse)

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Welcome to the Lorehounds, Alicia is back. Time for a musical transition but we won't make

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Sean do that.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, not happening. Definitely not happening. Hi, I'm Jean. This is the MCUniverse, part

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_07]: of Comic Versus Under Lorehounds.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you to David for stepping in for me while I officiated my sister's wedding. Glad

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_09]: to be back in the hot seat today talking about my by far favorite show on right

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_09]: now and with a special guest but we'll get back to that in a moment.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_07]: This is our fourth Agatha All Along episode so go back and catch up on our prep app, our

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_07]: breakdown of the first two episodes and our breakdown of the third if you haven't yet.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_07]: But today we're covering episode four. If I can't reach you, let my song teach you.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_09]: We'll be launching right into spoilers so make sure you're caught up before listening

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_09]: on. The Witch's Road has many twists and turns some of them revealed this week

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_09]: and we'll be spoiling all of those plus anything else from the MCU so far we might consider relevant

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_09]: plus of course events from the related comics.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_07]: We also want to hear and discuss your thoughts about the show, the comics, the characters

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_07]: and everything else as we go. Please send your feedback to MCU at the Lorehounds.com.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_07]: You'll find the link in the show notes. Voice mail is encouraged as well.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_09]: And we also want to welcome our special guest, Nicole from Nevermind the Music.

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, Nicole. Thank you for joining us.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, Nicole. Thank you for being here.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for having me guys. It's nice to chat with you.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Now I get the impression you're not in general like you're not a huge Marvel MCU person but

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I asked for your opinion on WandaVision and you caught up on that.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's right. So can I just tell you about how like we met and how like

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm connected to this whole project here? Please do.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm the co-host of a podcast on our network called Nevermind the Music that talks about

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_08]: the intersectionality, the small little segment in a Venn diagram between music

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_08]: composition and psychological themes.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_08]: So me and my co-host Mark take really popular songs especially if you're from like a

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_08]: Gen X elder millennial vibe like we are and really break them down and we talk

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_08]: about the compositional elements like the music theory behind it.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_08]: Although Mark would hate it that I call it that.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_08]: You corrected me on that too.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_08]: I did. Yeah, he'll correct you and that's cool.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_08]: And I talk about some of like the social cultural context of the songs

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_08]: and also any of the psychological themes that come up.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_08]: So when we joined your network, we started talking about MCU.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm so naive to all of it and you asked from my opinion on WandaVision

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_08]: and how it tracks songs through the different decades that the show is depicted in.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_08]: And that really sparked me to watch it.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_08]: So that was my I'm so embarrassed to say in front of you,

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_08]: my first entrance into the MCU.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_08]: And I like loved it and everyone in my life that I said,

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_08]: oh, I have to go home and watch WandaVision.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_08]: They're like, who are you? Why are you?

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_08]: You never watch any of this stuff.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_08]: But I got so sparked by it when I remember texting you after the first couple

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_08]: episodes being like, I don't know what's going on.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Should I look?

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm like on Reddit, like what's happening and what like why don't I understand?

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_08]: And then I realized it wasn't because I was a Marvel Neophyte.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_08]: It's because I wasn't meant to understand.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_08]: And then slowly like things started being disclosed.

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was fascinating.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Loved WandaVision and.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, can I ask about WandaVision?

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_09]: You you also have been talking on Nevermind the Music recently about grief

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_09]: in episodes that were released recently at least.

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_09]: And WandaVision is a big part about that.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_09]: How do you feel that it handled that theme?

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_08]: I I always say on our podcast like I'm a big fan of grief.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's the most connecting human emotion that no matter who you are

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_08]: and where you've been, if you've lost someone that's important to you,

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_08]: you can connect to another human about that feeling.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, you know what it's like to feel like this a profound loss.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_08]: And that kind of binds us together in a way.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_08]: And there were so many grief themes expressed in WandaVision.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_08]: One, Wanda having this denial about the loss of her loved one,

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_08]: trying to bring him back and keep him there with her.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_08]: It was really true to a lot of theories around grief

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_08]: and how we process it, this denial,

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_08]: this depression that comes with it,

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_08]: this idea that we start bargaining quite a bit

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_08]: when we're about to lose someone or we've lost something

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_08]: and try to make deals to keep them around.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_08]: And you see that so much in WandaVision in a real human way.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_08]: In a way that we don't I don't have like I said,

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't have too much experience,

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_08]: but I don't feel like we get that level of vulnerability from Wanda,

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_08]: but she seemed very, very vulnerable

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_08]: and kind of grasping at straws to protect the life that she has.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that was really powerful to me

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_08]: and that really resonated with me.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_08]: And then we see it in other characters as well.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_08]: Like when they came out of her spell just for a minute

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_08]: or not her spell, whatever,

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_08]: when they came out of the spell for just a minute.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_08]: They start immediately bargaining.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, let me see my daughter, like bring me back.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Like it's I'll give you anything.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_08]: Just give me one more second with the person I love.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_08]: And I just think that that's kind of a lovely, profound human emotion.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_08]: It sounds really dark to say,

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_08]: but like that desperation that we feel

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_08]: and that came through through WandaVision for me

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_08]: and is coming through in Agatha too, the same types of feelings.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_08]: So that's my when I was watching WandaVision,

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I was like, well, this is powerful in a way that I didn't expect it to be.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_08]: And I love that the surprise is great.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_08]: I love a surprise and that definitely surprised me.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_08]: And even the idea of sacrifice in WandaVision,

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_08]: I thought was really powerful.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_08]: I just really I really, really loved it.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_08]: And now I'm on a deep dive into everything Marvel.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_08]: It's a slow dive, but it's a thing.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Because there's too much content.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_08]: Like I can't I have a full time job.

[00:07:26] [SPEAKER_08]: I can't just watch Marvel movies all day, but I kind of want to.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_08]: I kind of want to.

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_09]: So what what if you will get to Agatha in a second?

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_09]: But what else Marvel have you been diving into so far?

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Just Deadpool.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_09]: That's pretty much it.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Because like, like, Terai and Reynolds and like, right, you know,

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_08]: we don't have to talk about that here, but.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_09]: You should watch Doctor Strange.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the first one, I guess, to set it up.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And then the second one continues Wanda's story a bit clumsily

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_09]: because it was made at the same time as WandaVision.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_09]: So you get kind of like character development whiplash,

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_09]: but that aside, it's a really fun, cool horror movie.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I was told to watch that before I started Agatha.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_08]: So I knew what happened to Wanda.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_08]: That's what people have told me,

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_08]: but I can't get in my time machine yet and go back and do that.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_08]: So we'll just pick up the pieces.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_09]: We gave the spoiler warning.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_09]: So the spoiler is Wanda appears to be dead.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_09]: She appears to be pretty dead, like in the Crick, right?

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_09]: But then for the Nicole, you came to me and you said,

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_09]: I am really into Agatha right now.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_09]: I definitely want to talk to you guys about it.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_09]: So what are your thoughts on the first three episodes?

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, the thing that I like about it so much is that it's very true

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_08]: to like a modern Wiccan experience,

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_08]: like a modern witch experience, like trying to assimilate

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_08]: these kind of religious ideals into a modern world when they're so stigmatized.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_08]: And I just really attached to that idea.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_08]: And the characters are very rich and nuanced,

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_08]: and I want to like dig into each of the characters.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_08]: Like there's something going on with each of them

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_08]: that they're holding so close.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's very intriguing just to me as a psychologist,

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_08]: like what's under the surface for all these women and men.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's really intriguing to me.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Cinematography wise, I think it's really rich and like the sets are great.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just it's captivating.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_08]: You really can escape into this world.

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm learning that that's the trick about the MCU.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Like that's why people like it is because it's an escape

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_08]: into this whole other universe, like literally, right?

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_08]: So that's really captivating to me as well.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_08]: And I'm just a big fan of some of the people in the cast.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Like when you first set me the trailer, I was like, this cast is right.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Fantastic.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_08]: Pretty awesome.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Like where how do they all get together?

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_08]: It's such like a weird mix, but they're all so great.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's really cohesive.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_08]: So I have a lot of thoughts.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_08]: The first episode was really dynamic to me because I felt I was right back

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_08]: in one division, like what's happening here really connected in a great way.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_08]: And then when that broke and you get into this this universe here of just Agatha

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_08]: and once they go on to the road, I was like, wow, this is I

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_08]: this is powerful and it's something really cool.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_08]: So that's my initial thoughts.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_08]: I just love all the characters and I'm eager to see where they go.

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_08]: And I I have like theories of where they're going to go.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_08]: But I think I'm going to get disproven a lot.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that's part of the show is like you're going to have a theory

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_08]: and then they're immediately going to shut it down.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, so that's probably the front of the MCU.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, it's been really fun.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_08]: So thanks for exposing me to it anyway.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, glad glad to we hooked another one, John.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_09]: So, John, what did you think about this week's episode?

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Episode four?

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_07]: It continues this really great season.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_07]: It's a great show.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's just put it out.

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Put it out there.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm so happy that they've done this show in the way that they've done it.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Not to be.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_07]: They're not afraid of the weird, right?

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_07]: And I and I'm happy for that because it's a different type of

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_07]: storytelling that we don't get on the big screen from franchises like Marvel.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just so everybody from teen just

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_07]: is knocking it out of the park.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_07]: Like there's I am not nitpicking on any character or

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_07]: there's nothing that I can look at while I'm watching it and say to myself,

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_07]: oh, no, I don't like that.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_07]: I've not had a moment yet when I've said, oh, I don't like that.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's a really, really great thing, you know, because it's a rare thing.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. And rare.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_07]: So this episode for me was I don't know if it was my favorite of the four.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_07]: OK, but it was really strong.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it was really strong.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was my favorite of the four.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_09]: But I think just because it really feels like I think, you know,

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_09]: honestly, it was my favorite of the four for what happens toward the end.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_09]: I love just when we get to spend time with the characters bonding.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_09]: And just, you know, and of course they're sharing, you know,

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_09]: we've had teases about their backstories and now we're getting some more details

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_09]: coming out and we'll talk about that more later.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, I appreciate that.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_09]: But just also them sitting around the fire and laughing and like we get

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_09]: we see more of Agatha is no longer like in Wanda vision.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_09]: She was she was great.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_09]: She was this dynamic character, like really fun.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_09]: But now we're seeing more of her as a person,

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_09]: so not just a mythical witch, but a human with witch powers and also

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_09]: but also human hurts and wants and regrets.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, they're showing more vulnerability as characters in this episode

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_08]: and really starting to let their guard down.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_08]: And I feel like that's going to backfire.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Like I just can feel it brewing.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_08]: But it's nice to watch and see like this coven really form

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_08]: and the camaraderie really form.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's nice to I feel like in this episode,

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_08]: we humanized Agatha quite a bit with her relationships

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_08]: within the other people in her group.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_08]: And that was really intriguing too.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we're going to dive into a scene by scene look at everything

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_09]: that's going on and then we're going to look a little more deeply

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_09]: at the characters and then talk about some feedback.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_09]: But first, before we do that, I have to address an elephant

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_09]: in the room for some listeners, which is I will acknowledge

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_09]: there has been some toy based spoilers that have been leaked.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I want to point out this leak happened after I made the notes

[00:14:35] [SPEAKER_09]: that David is on use last week.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_09]: But now I do know what the spoilers are.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_09]: One of them is like not even really a spoiler.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_09]: So we're just going to ignore that.

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And the other one, yeah, I think it's a bummer

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_09]: that it's out there because the show was leading us there

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_09]: on its own, especially this episode.

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm going to be treading carefully around one character

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_09]: in particular and I'm going to bite my tongue a bit

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_09]: on speculation there.

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm just going to be pointing out clues

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_09]: in the episode without making predictions that I already know.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_07]: You looked at the leak.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, the leak looked at me.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_09]: It was like right in my face.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_09]: It was unavoidable.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Did you see a show?

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I have not.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you're usually better avoiding these.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't look it up.

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't look it up.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_09]: It's just I spent too much time on Twitter.

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_07]: No, I didn't even know until you.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_07]: OK, good. So so.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_07]: And I resisted the urge to look it up.

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_07]: So I didn't look it up.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_09]: And Nicole, I'm guessing that you're safe.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm pretty safe.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the algorithm hasn't found me yet.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_08]: First off like this.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm intrigued by toy based spoilers, though.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Like that's really intriguing to me.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_08]: It's merchant. Yeah, merchant.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_08]: I love. Yeah, I like stuff.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_08]: I just do collectible things.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_08]: So I'm going to try not to get ahead of myself on that.

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know what merchandise you can get that isn't spoilery

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_09]: and that I really want is they have necklaces out there

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_09]: for the witches in the coven.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_09]: So like different amulets they're all wearing.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_09]: You can get necklaces and then for Rio,

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_09]: it's the knife that she's carrying but a necklace for.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_08]: Are they like good quality or are they like toys like for kids?

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think the necklace.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_09]: I think the necklaces are for grown ass women.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Nice. Or men who want to wear them.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think that I don't know.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't seen them in person.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know the exact quality, but it looks decent.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_09]: That's nice. I'll I'll spoil myself on that.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, you do some shopping later.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_08]: And like, I'm into an amulet.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. So if my family is listening, Christmas is coming up.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, for anyone who doesn't know what spoiler we're talking about,

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I do not recommend looking it up.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_09]: I just wanted to address that, yes, I know it.

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm the only one here who knows it and I'm going to be careful not to,

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_09]: you know, let that go.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_09]: All right. So we're going to dive in first, as I said, the recap,

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_09]: then sort through some of the character clues.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_09]: We got this episode and end with some feedback.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So we have this episode is called,

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_09]: If I Can't Reach You, Let My Song Teach You, or Put It Another Way.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_09]: So this is the first episode title we've gotten that's not from the original,

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_09]: what they're calling the sacred chant version of the ballad.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_09]: We got a new version of the song this week.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Nicole, what are your thoughts on you've heard the sacred chant version?

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Now you've heard the new 70s rock version.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, when I first heard the sacred chant version,

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_08]: I had chills all over myself because it was so powerful.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_08]: And just like, I love women connecting with each other for a common good

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_08]: and like, well, for a common cause, we'll say.

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_08]: And I just the power of those voices together was really,

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_08]: it really resonated with me and like, you know, just to hear Patty Lepone

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_08]: sing anyway is going to like make me feel a feeling.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_08]: So I loved the sacred chant version

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_08]: and probably have been like singing it in my car quite a bit.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_08]: It's just weird.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_08]: But the this version, I like

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_08]: I really connected to it like as a mother.

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_08]: And that might be too personal to share, but I thought of this idea

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_08]: of like this mother like embedding protection in a song

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_08]: to broadcast to the world to keep her kid protected when she's not there.

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_08]: And that like idea is really like tender and profound for me.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_08]: And the song is just awesome.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, on that and the fact that they straight into my playlist.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, my gosh, so good.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_08]: And the fact that when they're like casting roles in the band

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_08]: and they put Patty Lepone on like the cast and that's like, like, how?

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_08]: Like what a world is this?

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, use what you have, you know, but it was just so, so good

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_08]: and just beautiful.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_08]: And that whole scene was literally enchanted.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was the song was a banger.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_08]: It was great.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_08]: I like it better than the sacred chant version for sure.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, just because it's a little bit more like timely, I think

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_08]: and into the style of music that I'm interested in.

[00:19:51] [SPEAKER_08]: And I have a lot of thoughts, man.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_08]: So I have a lot of thoughts about.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_08]: This is the place that I have any thoughts like the fact

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_08]: that in the first challenge, the first house that they entered on the road,

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_08]: it had a very like Stepford wives, like fifties in my head,

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_08]: like an early Wanda vision vibe, like very sterile.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_08]: And then the end then this house had like a more 70s tone

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_08]: and the music match that tone.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_08]: I just like how they're kind of going through decades in a way

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_08]: that calls back to Wanda vision.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not I'll have to watch and see if that's intentional,

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_08]: but I'm noticing that like.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, for sure.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_08]: And I didn't read the comics.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, I mean, that's good for the story.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Definitely.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_07]: That's OK.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of the listeners have not read the comics.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_09]: This is usually Jean is our comics guy and he is here too.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_09]: But this happens to be my favorite corner of the Marvel Comics universe.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm getting very excited about it.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_09]: But but yeah, when I heard when I heard the title announced

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_09]: right before the episode came out while I was on a plane.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And so I found out what the episode title was going to be

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_09]: while I was saying goodbye to my mom.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And and I was I was saying I was like, oh, I know what this is going

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_09]: this is going to be.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Lorna Wu's version of the song and these words are directed to her daughter.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_09]: I know it.

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, so I told my mom like, oh, this is going to be a mother

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_09]: daughter episode, this one.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And but but then yeah, the way they played it in the episode

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_09]: may be even more emotional.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Talk about that more when we get there.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_09]: But just the other whole Texan spell elements

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_09]: just like really made me.

[00:21:33] [SPEAKER_08]: It's very calm.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_09]: That's it's very powerful.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that that's what moms are always trying to do is like set

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_08]: their kid up for protection when they're not around, right?

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_08]: And maybe that is imparting wisdom or putting social protections in place.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_08]: But this is just such a literal transference of that idea.

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Like no, I'm going to keep the song on repeat in the world.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_08]: So you stay protected when I can't protect you.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't know that really got me for sure.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And and Jean, do you have a favorite between?

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I guess we've heard three versions now because we also got that

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_09]: true bloodesque version in the first episode.

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you have a favorite version of the ballad so far or a version

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_09]: that you're hoping to hear?

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_07]: It's the true bloodesque one.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know something about the way that that that hit

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_07]: because I wasn't expecting it.

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_07]: It hit a little bit different.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_07]: But I will say that knowing that this is the protection spell

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_07]: that Lord set up for Alice, that is that that right there

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_07]: is doing something for the story that a lot of, you know,

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_07]: you don't get that in a lot of different comic adaptations.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Right? This is so cool.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And so powerful at the same time.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Like here's the woman who's a witch who knows that her days are limited.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, this is hereditary.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_07]: This is generational curse. Right?

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_07]: And she knows it's going to happen.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_07]: But she embarks on this thing just to make sure

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_07]: that her daughter doesn't fall to the same fate.

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And how does she do that?

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_07]: She makes a fucking number one hit that was played on the radio.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. Until the end of time. Right.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Like that is so that is so cool.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_07]: That is so cool.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_07]: And and I just thought that the their entirety of the message

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_07]: that her stardom was in service of protecting her daughter

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_07]: was so, so wonderful.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, and it's, um, yeah, it's I don't know.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_07]: But I still like the true lettuce, true crime.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_09]: The true, true crime version.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I the thing about the mother daughter thing is that actually

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_09]: so we've already talked about the fact that the Alice Wugulliver character,

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_09]: she's only in like four comics in so far,

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_09]: but probably she'll be more now.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Probably going to be more definitely.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_09]: But the first one that she's in is actually she's mostly in the

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_09]: The Witches Road Scarlet Witch, you know, Volume Two series

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_09]: we've talked about before from 2015 and 2016.

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_09]: But the first one she's in is actually Doctor Strange comic.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_09]: It's the one off called Doctor Strange Last Days of Magic.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And there's a scene with her while her mother is still alive.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_09]: And to me, it is one of the like most beautiful, casual representations

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_09]: of mother-daughter relationships that I've seen in Marvel Comics,

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_09]: just, you know, with like her saying she wanted her daughter to not be a policeman

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_09]: and that, you know, her daughter is stubborn and is going to do what she wants to do.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_09]: And they're like, but I love you and to each other.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's just, you know, and then her mom dies.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But I do think they're they're working

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_09]: from strong source material here just to run through the director for this episode

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_09]: is again, Rachel Goldberg, who also directed last week.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_09]: And she's also directing next week.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm wondering if there's like an overall arc happening here with these three episodes.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_09]: We have the same director.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_09]: The writer is Giovanna Sarquise, who is a fresher face.

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Her past credits include shorts and an episode of Griselda, which I didn't get to see.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_09]: But I think she did a great job in this episode.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_09]: John, do you want to read the first scene?

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_07]: A nursing, a fresh green witch.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_07]: After burying Sharon, the coven is forced to summon a replacement green witch.

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Rio emerges from Sharon's grave, much to Agatha's annoyance.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_09]: So I think it's interesting, though.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_09]: I noticed this, especially in the rewatch when at the very beginning,

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Agatha leans over Sharon's corpse and says, I didn't think you had it in you.

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And then Tina says, didn't think you had what in you.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And Agatha winks at him.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you guys have any thoughts about?

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, like, I didn't think she had what in her.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Like the witchiness getting it that far or?

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't I opening the door.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I fully expect Sharon to come back.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Right, I want her to come back.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_08]: She's I really hope so.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_07]: This is my this is my eternal hope for the city.

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I need Sharon back.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_08]: She gives such a she gives such a great

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_08]: comic relief and such like a littleness to the whole thing.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. So when she gave that wink, it was sort of like to me,

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_07]: like, you know, I'll see you down the line type of thing.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you're not really gone.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_07]: At least that's how I took it, maybe because I'm emotional about Sharon.

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know. But that's how I took that.

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_09]: What what do we think went wrong?

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_09]: That she they didn't add we didn't see them at her hair,

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_09]: but the camera did cut away to maybe they did.

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And then someone said this episode

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_09]: that it was because she drank two glasses of wine and only had one antidote.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Do we think there's does does it even matter, I guess?

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Hmm, I don't know.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think the two glasses and one antidote,

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_07]: I think more so that they didn't add her hair.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, or maybe both of those things.

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's not one or the other.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_08]: Right? Maybe it's both of those things.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_08]: I just like I just took that as like this is

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_08]: let's just move past, you know, move past it.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Like this is the excuse for giving the audience.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, they all start bickering

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_09]: and then teens like, well, this is the actual problem

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_09]: as we're not operating as a group.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_09]: We're not being cohesive.

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_09]: It's Coven true, not Coven to Agatha.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, we see the good, the bad and the ugly

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_09]: from Agatha this episode.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And the ugly is definitely her callousness about Sharon,

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_09]: who by the way is not called Mrs. Hart.

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Will you please learn her name, Agatha?

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_09]: But if we also saw she was like ready to walk away

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_09]: and leave behind I think it was Teen and Jennifer

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_09]: who were digging the grave for Sharon.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_07]: She was ready to go.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's the thing, right?

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_07]: With Agatha, she has to be pulled back

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_07]: in some sort, some way back into the fold.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Right? Because she's so used to having her power

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_07]: that she can actually do whatever she wants to.

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Now she's not able to do whatever she wants to do

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_07]: because she's forced to operate within the constraints

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_07]: of this Coven, within the constraints of this group.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_07]: She needs them.

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. And I don't think she hasn't needed someone

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_07]: or others for a very long time.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And this is what's playing out for her right now.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_07]: The idea that, you know, she actually needs these people

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_07]: who maybe five years ago before the spell,

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_07]: she would have looked at them like they were, you know,

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_07]: like, peons.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, you know, you know.

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_07]: So this is a dynamic that this is a battle

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_07]: that I see her having in these first four episodes.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, oh, man, what?

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Losers. I don't want to be around these people.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_07]: But she is stuck in because she has to have them around.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_07]: She needs their help and she is not a person

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_07]: who is readily accepting or wanting to ask for help.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's fueling a lot of the stuff

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_07]: that we're seeing on screen for her, which I find fascinating.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. So we got that Coven two comment

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_09]: and we find out she was asked point blank

[00:30:09] [SPEAKER_09]: how many witches left the road with you at the end.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And she says one.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_09]: So that means I'm taking that to mean her and one other person.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you think the other person was Rio?

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. I do.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I do.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_08]: I think that we're seeing depth in their relationship

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_08]: that there's so much unspoken

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_08]: and like a millennia of history, maybe that I think

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_08]: that the other person was Rio.

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that all of this kind of dialogue

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_08]: between them, this like secret talks between them

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_08]: are just nodding back to that previous experience

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_08]: the last time they did this.

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_08]: So that's what I think.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Do we think she she said, you know, the Coven two thing?

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Do we think if she wanted to leave this time with one person?

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Who do we think it would be?

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_13]: Hmm.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Because I would say teen,

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_09]: but then she was going to leave him behind digging the grave.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_09]: So I don't know.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, it would have to be Rio.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_09]: But it was just before Rio showed up.

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_07]: No, and I'm thinking of now would be.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, okay.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I think she would.

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I think she would.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think she would.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_08]: He's not they're not part of the Coven.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_08]: So maybe it's the two of them, right?

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, she calls him her familiar.

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but his spellbook does come in handy.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm guessing not for the last time.

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And so they, you know, so they say,

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_09]: okay, the other witches convince her we're going to need a green witch.

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_09]: We haven't even done the green witch trial yet.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_09]: We need one.

[00:31:52] [SPEAKER_09]: So she's like, OK, let's let's summon one and we get.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we get a Latin summoning

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_09]: and apparently Latin scholars online.

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_09]: People have been asking throughout the show for Latin translations

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_09]: and everyone's like they actually did a really good job.

[00:32:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Like they put effort into getting the Latin right.

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_09]: So that yeah.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So we find out from Mad Latinist on Twitter, the first part,

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_09]: they said, we summon a green sister above above below within without.

[00:32:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And then we get the summoning request.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Shall we run through them?

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you show what you want to do, Lillia and Nicole, you do Agatha

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_09]: and we'll continue through them.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_07]: May she be strong and wise and the best at her craft.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_08]: May she be smart and not annoying and also not super political.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And then Jen goes super, super official.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_09]: May she be pleasant looking.

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Can she bring some Advil?

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And teen says nothing.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Is it part of the coven?

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, that comes back to that question.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, do we think he's part of the coven or not?

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_08]: I think not yet, but I think it's I think it's coming.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_08]: I do.

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know where they're where they would fit right now,

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_08]: but yeah, I there's such an integral part of like keeping the group cohesive

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_08]: and like keeping things moving.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_08]: They're like the admin of the coven.

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that there's a role for them.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm just not sure where.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_08]: So I don't know yet.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_08]: The teens kind of like the coven glue in a way.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, but not part of it.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we have a thing together, but he's not a part of the thing.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_07]: If that makes sense.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we have another instance where that comes up.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_09]: We'll get to in the next scene, but I have to I love that the after

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_09]: they do their requests about like what the green which should be.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_09]: We get this final Latin line.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Which means it's not easy being green.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_09]: So I don't know if that's just like teen messing about in his book or like.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_08]: It's so funny because in order to get that joke, you have to go and translate

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_08]: the Latin it's like so deep.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_08]: The law.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_09]: But I appreciated it was in the subtitles because I might not have gotten

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Focule, but then when you see it written, you're like facility.

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, that's that's easy.

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_09]: And really don't.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's green.

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, I love that there's like so many layers that like the more you dig

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_09]: into the details is more jokes that turn up.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_09]: All right.

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we're going to get to the next trial with our group of witches after

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_09]: a quick commercial break.

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_09]: You're right back.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_09]: I know you want to read the next scene.

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_08]: The Coven enters a house with a 1970s aesthetic that gives Alice grief upon

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_08]: entering they find is a recording studio tied to Alice's mother, Lorna Wu.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Rio playfully suggests to Agatha that they betray the others, which Agatha

[00:35:50] [SPEAKER_08]: makes sure everyone overhears.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, we see again the moons on the door.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_09]: This time we get a waxing moon, which is like when the moon is growing.

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_09]: It's between a new moon and a full moon, which is interesting because the last

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_09]: one was a full moon and now it's like we're stepping back in the moon cycles.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_09]: But this is identified as the fire trial, which is the trial of Alice,

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_09]: whose mother, you know, whose mother's recording studio we end up in.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_09]: And we get, of course, a wardrobe change.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_09]: I love the wardrobe changes.

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_09]: I love that Lilia looks just like Liza Manelli.

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Liza Manelli, yeah.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Teen calls them an album cover waiting to happen.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_09]: And there's a Fleetwood Mac poster on the walls.

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_09]: And the costume designer, Daniel Salon, he points out that we get the deep

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_09]: V cuts on both Agatha's and Rio's costumes.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_09]: And apparently that's so that they're both burying their hearts.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Have either of you seen or are you at all familiar with the there's two film

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_09]: versions of Suspiria?

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not familiar.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I am.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_09]: You are. Yeah.

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. Have you watched them or just passing familiar?

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Passing familiarity.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_09]: OK. Yeah.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, so they are the first one is from 1977.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_09]: It's a Dario Argento movie.

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_09]: He's like most famous as an Italian Jalow, a special type of Italian horror.

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_09]: And it seems like they based the production design of this episode off

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_09]: of Suspiria because just like the overall aesthetics, the way the place looks.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Suspiria set in a dance studio.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_09]: This is a music studio, but also especially Suspiria is known

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_09]: for this colorfully lurid lighting.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_09]: And it has one of the most iconic horror soundtracks of all time by

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Goblin, which here's just a clip.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_09]: So, yes, I was joking in the chat that that song lives in my head all the time.

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm glad to stick it in others.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, so we're definitely getting now to Suspiria this episode.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And we also get like the gallery of the dying witch drawings that we see.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And later when we see the curse itself, that seems to be more referencing.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So there is a 2018 remake of Suspiria, but I would call them

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_09]: actually compliments of each other more than direct remakes because

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_09]: my favorite things about one are the weakest part of the other.

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_09]: And then like the other film, its greatest strengths are, you know, where the other ones.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_09]: So like the first one is all about the aesthetics, the lighting, the music.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And the second one goes a bit deeper into lore and world building that.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_09]: So it seems like they're pulling from both this episode and Fleetwood Mac.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_08]: I had a question about the scene that it can.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_08]: So there's a bit that stood out and it wasn't called back at any point

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_08]: in the episode where Lilia starts speaking in like gibberish a little bit or

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_08]: like she's like kind of like out of time, the way she's speaking.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And I thought that that would come back and it never did.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_08]: And I wanted to know what you guys thought about that.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know the moment I'm thinking of that she speaks and like it just she's not herself?

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm curious about that moment.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_09]: So we've been tracking that across the episodes and we don't really have an answer yet,

[00:39:41] [SPEAKER_09]: but definitely we're going to be talking about that when we do the character dives.

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, cool. OK. Thanks.

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm curious.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Unless Sean, you have any theories when I throw out? Not yet.

[00:39:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I think we'll get the answers at her trial.

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's the only that's the only caveat I'll give.

[00:40:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I think during her trial, we'll get those answers because it's been a recurring theme.

[00:40:13] [SPEAKER_07]: Either out of time or someone or something is talking to her.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Right. It's like it's not her and she.

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's right. Fascinating.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, hers is going to be the air trial, we know, because in the second episode,

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_09]: when they were singing the song, Agatha pointed at her when they sang air,

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_09]: when they're singing the elements.

[00:40:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, she was there.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Speaking of Agatha and Rio call a truce,

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_09]: which is maybe more than a truce by the end of the episode.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_09]: But we get this tease about their past relationship.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe the road is like Switzerland.

[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_05]: What if we just call a truce?

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Just one more adventure.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_05]: You and me like old times.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Work and play.

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I guess this seems like a silly question to ask.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_09]: I think I know the answer.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_09]: But how is the Agatha real relationship working for you both?

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I want to know,

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, at this point right now, I want to know exactly what went down

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_07]: between the two of them, because for in the first episode,

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_07]: the way Rio busts through the door and, you know, literally has a knife at her

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_07]: throat and is ready to kill her, ready to kill Agatha.

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_07]: What happened to push her to this end?

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_07]: What what is the thing?

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_07]: What is the chasm between them that has them on these opposite ends?

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Where for the dialogue and how we see the interact,

[00:42:07] [SPEAKER_07]: they were once not at opposite ends.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_07]: So how did they get to this chasm?

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_07]: How did they get to this point?

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_07]: And that's what's most interesting for me

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_07]: is to try to piece together exactly what has gone on in their history

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_07]: that has caused this break because it's not just a break of in love.

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_07]: It's like murderous intent.

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to see you end.

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_07]: I, you know, and that is something that is, you know, really,

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_07]: really driving the story to me.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_07]: When she tells her, you know, don't you want me at my most powerful?

[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Then you can kill me, right?

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_07]: At my most powerful with my powers intact.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Why? Like if I if I want to murder someone and, you know, they're there in front of

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_07]: me and, you know, I'm ready to murder you.

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not going to wait until you're powerful enough to murder me back.

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to murder you.

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. So what is the thing that happened between the two of them?

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_07]: What is the magical thing that happened between the two of them

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_07]: that has caused this break?

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Because it's fascinating to watch the how they play off of each other

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_07]: and the obvious love that they had or have for each other.

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_07]: But at the same time, there's this deep seated hatred that is, you know,

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_07]: bubbling just as much as the love is bubbling.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_07]: So I want to know what is happening.

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think, Nicole?

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you think sometimes you can only hate someone that much if you've loved them

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_09]: that much?

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Short answer, yes.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_08]: I think they're in this like wild, very, very, very long term relationship

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_08]: that there is a dichotomy of feeling that's rooted in passion that is either

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_08]: like love or hate.

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_08]: And the thing about power is really interesting.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, why wait until she's the most powerful to kill her?

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe to like honor her power and honor the love in the relationship they have.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Or maybe it's to steal her power if she goes there.

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_08]: And the more powerful she is, the more power Rio gets.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_08]: That's how I interpreted that moment in the first episode.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_08]: But it is like they have such a jump between the how we see them

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_08]: initially and how we see them in this episode that this feels

[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_08]: still that like underlying resentment, but much more intimate.

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_08]: And you're seeing that, OK, this is more than just a rivalry.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_08]: This is they're like family that's fighting.

[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_08]: And they care about each other, but also like it's just been so long

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_08]: that all of those little things or maybe big things are just like kind of piling up

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_08]: and it becomes either like, I'm going to kiss you or kill you because there's so much

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_08]: there and that tension is really intriguing as someone watching for sure.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_08]: It's very intriguing to see like where these characters are going to go

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_08]: because they take every opportunity to take digs at each other in like real ways

[00:45:24] [SPEAKER_08]: and not just like superficial, like I don't like your outfit sort of caddy

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_08]: ways, but like real deep emotional cutting digs.

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_08]: And I feel like you can only hurt someone that much when you love them a lot

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_08]: because you know what to say and they do they don't they just want to say

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_08]: to like scratch at each other in a very very visceral way.

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_08]: It's really it is very captivating to see how it goes.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_09]: In the way I get the setting setting up real like, you know,

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_09]: with the whole thing with the intercom, you know, making sure that everyone

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_09]: overhears like she's like, I'm not the bad baddest bitch here.

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, sorry, she is the she wants to be the baddest bitch,

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_09]: but she's not the baddest witch.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_09]: She's not the most wickedest witch.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's like playful in a way that puts their relationship on like a

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_08]: different status than everyone else's like they're masterminding everyone else.

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_08]: It definitely feels like there's so much unspoken between them that they

[00:46:24] [SPEAKER_08]: it's all a game to them in a way that it doesn't feel like a game to the other

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_08]: folks in the coven and that's an interesting power dynamic from my perspective.

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think the other members of the coven are starting to see that.

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. They're seeing like, OK, there's something between the two of them

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_07]: that we have to be careful about.

[00:46:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. Because this could really we already know

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_07]: that we have to be careful around Agatha.

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_07]: But now the two of them, these are either separately or together could really,

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, cause us some harm.

[00:47:06] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think the other members of the coven are slow seeing that

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_07]: the Agatha Rio tandem can be quite dangerous to.

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. When they're sitting around the campfire and the looks that Rio and

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Agatha give each other and everybody is looking at like, OK, we see that.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_07]: We're not going to pretend that we don't see it.

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_07]: We see it so and we want to know what's behind that those glances

[00:47:34] [SPEAKER_07]: and those stairs, those parts and the walk off and what's that history about?

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Because you know what?

[00:47:41] [SPEAKER_07]: We're here with these two and Agatha has a horrible reputation.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. She she's a, you know, a coven killer.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And so, you know, if someone is here and is obviously has this sort of relationship

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_07]: with her, what does that make that person?

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_08]: And Rio, like hints at something earlier on this episode, right?

[00:48:07] [SPEAKER_08]: When she joins the coven, she's like, oh, it's a mutiny already.

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_08]: And I thought of that as such foreshadowing once we got to the end of the episode.

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_08]: Like already it's a mutiny known like not yet, but it's it's coming.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_08]: It's getting there.

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's getting there.

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_08]: And you can feel, especially as this episode kind of reaches its climax,

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_08]: like that when the other witches are bonding, they're bonding without the two of them.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's that's like the first piece.

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes. Yeah.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Lilia, yeah, we started with, you know,

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Jennifer wanted someone pleasant looking, which she got.

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And she and Alice are both like, oh, hello at first.

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_09]: But then by the end, they're like,

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And Lilia calls her out and she's like,

[00:48:54] [SPEAKER_09]: don't think I forgot what we overheard you say in that studio later on.

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_08]: I really do wish she had Advil at one point and just busts out.

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I was waiting for that.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, I'm sure.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, like give her some relief covered in dirt with, you know,

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_09]: two little pills in her hand or something like that.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_08]: I thought that that would be a really lighthearted moment.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_08]: When I was like eager for it to happen.

[00:49:17] [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, maybe the next episode.

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_09]: All right. So we've got this this whole intercom, intercom shenanigans.

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And then, Jean, do you want to take the next part of the scene?

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure. Trial by fire and song.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Just then, Teen accidentally plays a record backwards,

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_07]: summoning a demon that is part of a curse in Alice's family.

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, we get that record that says play me.

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And so he played it.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_09]: They're like, why did you play that?

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_09]: He holds it up.

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_09]: I loved that.

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_09]: And yeah, so we're all like of an age that we probably remember as kids,

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_09]: people talking about that they call this playing backwards, back masking.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_09]: And they would say like, oh, if you played this song backwards,

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_09]: you hear like summoning the devil.

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_09]: So that was very as like 80s kids as a callback to.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_09]: I did take a look at the record itself when they held it up.

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_09]: I paused it and read the songs.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_09]: So the first song is Mary, Mary, which is seems to me both a Fleetwood Mac reference

[00:50:23] [SPEAKER_09]: and also, I don't know, maybe like a Bloody Mary reference or something like that.

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Mother Mary reference, there's so much wrapped up in that name.

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_09]: And Red Haired Woman, I couldn't I could only think of Wanda with that.

[00:50:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Cinnamon and Sage will get back to in a second.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_09]: The other two are Flick of the wrist, which sounds like, you know,

[00:50:43] [SPEAKER_09]: spellcasting and swan song because we know her mother died doing this.

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_09]: So that makes sense.

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Cinnamon and Sage is a especially interesting one because in spellcraft

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_09]: and modern witchcraft, Cinnamon's associated with fire also with protection

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_09]: spells and love spells, healing, prosperity and sage.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_09]: You might have I think probably a lot of people know about Sage.

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_09]: It's used you burn it for cleansing to use in exorcisms and healing.

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_09]: So this is very relevant for this particular trial.

[00:51:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's interesting once it starts

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_09]: right before the other start burning, Alice first says like,

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_09]: so much lighter now, like the curse lifted off her and is now shared by the coven.

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Again, that's the whole point.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_07]: This group helping each other and one member of the group.

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Not knowing how to do that.

[00:51:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Not knowing how to do that, learning how to do that, learning how to, you know,

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_07]: lean on others, you know, to get

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_07]: to get something that everybody wants and everybody needs.

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_07]: So this is it's really

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_07]: it's Agatha's entire this is this is all about Agatha growing

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_07]: mm hmm.

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_07]: While learning.

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_09]: But I love this is Agatha's show and

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_09]: it definitely is about her character journey, but I love how it really is an

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_09]: ensemble cast and each of these characters has feels fully formed and unique.

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes. Yes.

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And yeah, they all have their own

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_09]: paths and their own reasons for being there.

[00:52:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, you can feel why there would be friction, especially with Agatha,

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_09]: of course, but just in general, you know, they're all there for different reasons

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_09]: with different expectations.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_09]: And I hope personally that nobody else dies because I want

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_09]: I want the back half to be about this group pooling together like we saw

[00:52:44] [SPEAKER_09]: around the campfire. I love bonding.

[00:52:46] [SPEAKER_08]: Or if they die, we can bring them back.

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:52:50] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_08]: Because we're witches.

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_08]: We can do stuff like that.

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And yeah, I think I agree with you that like I don't want to lose anyone.

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, I'd love to

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_08]: bring Mrs. Hart back into the next.

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes. See how she I think she's going to come back and save everybody.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm hoping but

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_09]: have her at the end of the road holding hands with Mephisto and men thing.

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, gosh.

[00:53:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know who those people are yet, but I support the idea.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we heard in episode three, Jennifer dropped the Mephisto name drop.

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_09]: So Jean, do you want to remind people who Mephisto is for anyone?

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_07]: So he's the mad one of the magical big bads of the MC.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Of Marvel Comics and literally, you know, if you think of the classic

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Renaissance pictures of Satan, that's what Mr.

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_07]: What's what he looks like?

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's a literal interpretation of

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Catholics view of who Satan is.

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Orange, red, tail, the devil, Lord of mischief and lies.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_11]: So yeah.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_07]: But in the Marvel comics, he's like all of the

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_07]: magical characters deal with him, right?

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_07]: And then the MCU and in the comics,

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_07]: Scarlet Witch has a very rich history with that character.

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And you better believe I found a way to shoe a horn man thing into our discussion

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_09]: of Jennifer later.

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_09]: I was thinking, John, you said in the last episode that you think man things

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_09]: probably one of my top three characters and I was thinking about it.

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_09]: I was like, yeah, you know, it is.

[00:54:42] [SPEAKER_09]: The only.

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Characters I might talk about more like or Wanda and Aurora Storm.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_07]: So those are the three.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think you're right.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_09]: I think you're right.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_09]: So we get Alice use she takes Rio's knife and uses it to draw

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_09]: protection circles around each of the members of the coven who start

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_09]: burning in that quench is the curse fire.

[00:55:10] [SPEAKER_09]: And we get we get

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_09]: teen is blown back through the recording booth window.

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And he says, oh, I've been hit by the curse.

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I must be part of the coven.

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_09]: But it was different from the burning that the rest of them experience.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So any thoughts about what might be going on there?

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_07]: He's not a part of the cover.

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but he wants to be and it's really cute.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, he does.

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_07]: He does.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_07]: He does.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_08]: That's all he wants.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_08]: He just wants to be part of things.

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Not a part of the cover.

[00:55:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Poor teen.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Not a part of the cover.

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm glad I'm kind of happy that he's not because this coven is, you know,

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know about this coven.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_08]: Like why does he want it so bad?

[00:55:51] [SPEAKER_08]: It's clearly toxic.

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's coming.

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_07]: That's not the coven for you.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Another coven.

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_08]: And like, you're better.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Like it'd be better.

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_07]: You're better than this coven.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_07]: You're better than this coven.

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_11]: Whatever.

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_08]: I think he just like wants a mom.

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_08]: He just like needs a mom, but that's a whole other conversation.

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yeah, yeah.

[00:56:11] [SPEAKER_07]: That's a question is like why?

[00:56:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Where's his mom?

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes, yes.

[00:56:15] [SPEAKER_09]: A sleep.

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it wasn't that late when they went down there.

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I love by the way, while they're all getting cursed and all this is going on.

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Rio's just in the background reading the paper.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry.

[00:56:29] [SPEAKER_08]: I noticed that too.

[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_08]: I wanted to like zoom in to see what was the paper like because if it's all

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_08]: of this time and place of this like 70s house, like what?

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_08]: I wonder if there's any Easter eggs on that paper anywhere.

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_09]: But like grab a bit.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_09]: No, it was too.

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_09]: It's too small.

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:56:47] [SPEAKER_09]: And then we get to we get to a couple

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_09]: exchanges I'm going to play back back that I feel like kind of are the crux

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_09]: of the episode of this trial at least.

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_09]: So first we get once vengeance is

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_09]: loosed, you can't reel it back in.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_10]: So what do we do?

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_09]: The only way to end a curse is to face it.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_09]: And then apparently the way in which face it is.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Why?

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_05]: We have to play Lorna's ballad.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not playing that song.

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_05]: All science point to a jam session.

[00:57:22] [SPEAKER_05]: What could we do?

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_05]: The ballad opens the road.

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_08]: We did that.

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_08]: We're here.

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Lorna's version is different, though.

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_05]: What did Lorna want from the road?

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_05]: What was her intention?

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_05]: To save her daughter.

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_05]: You should have burnt to a crisp years ago, but here you are.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_05]: Sullen and aimless, but alive.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_05]: That's because at any given moment

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_05]: somewhere someone is playing that song that you hate so much.

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Lorna's ballad is a protection spell.

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_05]: It protected

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_09]: you.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_09]: This made me so emotional.

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_09]: I just imagining like I could absolutely see my mom becoming a rock star just to

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_09]: just to protect me from something, you know, if she thought like this is how I have

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_09]: to protect my daughter, she'd be like, well, I guess I better learn some instruments.

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_08]: It's so smart.

[00:58:26] [SPEAKER_08]: It's really just like the ultimate long con.

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[00:58:32] [SPEAKER_07]: And for someone like Alice to learn that in this moment where she's either hated or just

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_07]: didn't understand her mother's career,

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_07]: hated or didn't understand her, you know,

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_07]: what's the word I'm looking for?

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Her determination to tour and to sing, you know, at the expense of her family,

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_07]: knowing that she actually did it because of her family, because of you learning that

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_07]: that's a powerful thing to come to grips with.

[00:59:04] [SPEAKER_08]: She let go of a lot of resentment in this episode on towards that she was carrying

[00:59:10] [SPEAKER_08]: around and maybe that was her trial is to let go of that burden.

[00:59:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe that's why she feels lighter because she's starting to release not

[00:59:17] [SPEAKER_08]: only the curse is like a metaphor, right?

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_08]: A metaphor, but the curse is like a metaphor for this resentment she had

[00:59:24] [SPEAKER_08]: towards her mom and she's finding more clarity in that relationship, which I think

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_08]: is something we all experienced towards our parents as we get older.

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_08]: You start understanding their motivations and through adult eyes in a way

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_08]: that can be really profound and we're seeing that firsthand with this

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_08]: character in this episode.

[00:59:41] [SPEAKER_08]: It's really good stuff.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_08]: It's really good stuff for sure.

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_08]: And the song's a banger.

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the song's a banger.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_09]: That helps.

[00:59:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Like how could you hate this song?

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_09]: But I can understand she associates it with her mom dying and her mom's

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_09]: whatever being detached while she was alive.

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_09]: So obsessed with this curse that she wasn't sure she believed in.

[01:00:02] [SPEAKER_09]: But I also am interested in it from and Nicole, this is maybe interesting to you

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_09]: from the perspective of generational trauma and epigenetics.

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Let's get after it.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_08]: So I mean, when we talk about this generational curse, it is for sure like a

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_08]: call to this idea of generational trauma and that we do inadvertently pass down

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_08]: trauma that our parents receive from their parents and we're passing it on to

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_08]: our kids and to actively break that cycle.

[01:00:38] [SPEAKER_08]: It is not a passive process.

[01:00:40] [SPEAKER_08]: It does not go away on its own.

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_08]: It is hard work to stop repeating patterns that your parents put on you.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's easier to not do that.

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_08]: It's easier just to go with your default mode that was put into you through

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_08]: epigenetic influences like this.

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_08]: Epigenetics are this intersection of nature versus nurture, which in psychology

[01:01:02] [SPEAKER_08]: is like one of the principal questions of psychology.

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Are we born one way or do we become that way over time?

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_08]: And what is forming us to be better?

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_08]: Like what's influencing us to change what our nature is?

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_08]: And Alice, in terms of this curse, like she inherited this curse and always said,

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_08]: hey, I thought it was just me.

[01:01:24] [SPEAKER_08]: I thought I was just a failure or things didn't work out for me.

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_08]: I never believed it to be this curse.

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_08]: But now she's in this episode, she's learning it is a literal curse.

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think from a psychological, psychosocial perspective,

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_08]: like we are all kind of cursed in some way by how our parents raised us.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_08]: Right. And the environment we grew up in,

[01:01:47] [SPEAKER_08]: it does influence our present day outcomes and how we experience the world now.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And it isn't just us being a loser.

[01:01:55] [SPEAKER_08]: It is this epigenetic influence of how we were raised and brought up and what's

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_08]: in our genes.

[01:02:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_08]: So she's got a couple of things going on that it is maybe in her genes through

[01:02:08] [SPEAKER_08]: this generational curse, but also she grew up with a ton of resentment towards her mom.

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_08]: And maybe her mom didn't pay enough attention to her

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_08]: in Alice's eyes and she was so busy touring, so busy being in this band and like,

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_08]: making the song really popular that she didn't care and nurture Alice enough

[01:02:28] [SPEAKER_08]: in like a tactical sense.

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_08]: And that might have contributed to Alice feeling like a loser as an adult because

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_08]: she didn't get that love from her mom.

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_08]: Now I'm getting really therapisty about Alice, you know, it's just where my head

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_08]: is always, but we're starting to see the veil being lifted here for Alice.

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Her mother wasn't so attentive to her day to day because she was looking at

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_08]: a bigger picture.

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that that's a really interesting dichotomy that we all kind

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_08]: of face as we age up, that maybe our parents weren't around so much because

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_08]: they were working two jobs to put food on the table and they couldn't.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, they were just doing the best with what they had.

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_08]: And as a parent now, no one I'll tell you no one knows what they're doing.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_08]: We're all just trying to do our best.

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's interesting to kind of watch that unfold for this character,

[01:03:18] [SPEAKER_08]: the veil lifting off and saying like, hey, she actually was trying to do

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_08]: right by me and she did love me.

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_08]: And it was bigger than what I thought it was.

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that that's really enriching as a human to have that feeling

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_08]: that like, no, your parents did actually really care about you, even if they

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_08]: didn't know how to show it.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_08]: So I hope that speaks to this idea of generational trauma and epigenetics

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_08]: in a way that resonates back to this plot.

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_08]: It's a really interesting area of psychology.

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm very interested in just trauma and grief generally.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Because it's these cycles that we're constantly trying to break even subconsciously.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_08]: We're trying to do what our parents didn't do

[01:04:02] [SPEAKER_08]: and trying to be better and make sacrifice for the next generation,

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_08]: even if they're misguided.

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Right. That's what we're seeing here too.

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_08]: So it really spoke to me from that like grief, trauma, psychology perspective.

[01:04:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Do you guys have any questions about that?

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm such a teacher. Sorry.

[01:04:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Lots comments, observations.

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I find it interesting, especially that so the curse is basically

[01:04:30] [SPEAKER_09]: a physical demon, a harpy like demon and they show so she has scars on these

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_09]: shoulders, which then the rest of the coven gets once they get this burning

[01:04:40] [SPEAKER_09]: thing. And so we see at the end, like right before she defeats it,

[01:04:44] [SPEAKER_09]: the harpy comes and lands on her shoulders.

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_09]: So she has this curse, this trauma literally sitting on her shoulders.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_07]: This weight, this weight on her shoulders.

[01:04:54] [SPEAKER_08]: It's so figure, so literal.

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_08]: And I love that because it makes these kind of heady concepts really accessible

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_08]: to people that don't have the psychological vocabulary yet to like talk

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_08]: about epigenetics and talk about this generational trauma.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_08]: But it's making it so obtuse that you can't not get it.

[01:05:18] [SPEAKER_08]: Right? We're all carrying around stuff.

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Right? It does us all good to release the burdens that our family has put on us.

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's healthy for all of us to do that.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_08]: And this is just you can't ignore it here.

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_08]: There's no way that you can get around that metaphor.

[01:05:34] [SPEAKER_08]: And I just thought it was really kind of lovely to like bring this

[01:05:40] [SPEAKER_08]: conversation to the masses in a way that like hits it from a different angle.

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_13]: So yeah.

[01:05:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. And we get we get the actual song part, which again was awesome.

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_09]: And I hope please give us more renditions of the ballot as we go.

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_09]: But we get a rapper.

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't want to rap.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_09]: No, you don't know.

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not with this crew.

[01:06:06] [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I'm saying.

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Not with this.

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Not with this cover.

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Not with this cover.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I love that.

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, as we mentioned that Lilia, she's like

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_09]: so they're going around like who plays any instruments and Lilia is like,

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_09]: why study the zills, which is the finger symbols and all.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Like what's to study?

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_08]: What's how did you study it?

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_07]: If you want to do it, there's no intricacies and harmonies.

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a lot to learn about this.

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, my God, I love that she's like, I remember when I was in elementary school,

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_09]: we would do band stuff like everyone wanted to play the pit

[01:06:46] [SPEAKER_09]: inch because they were the most fun.

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_09]: So we just see like every time it cuts back to Lilia, she's playing a different

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_09]: pit instrument. She's got the tambourine.

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_09]: She's got the triangle, you know?

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_09]: And that's like a fatty lapone like

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_08]: whatever you're saying like, please, I can't wait.

[01:07:00] [SPEAKER_08]: I can't wait for it.

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_09]: So we hear that when they ask Jen about instruments, she just says ballet,

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_09]: which I think might be another suspiria reference because they were ballerinas

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_09]: and suspiria. Oh, cool.

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Like she's assigned to the base and apparently

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Sashir Zamata, the actress actually she took bass lessons.

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_09]: She's like, I don't really play the bass, but I can fake it enough, you know,

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_09]: for this and they found out that Ali An who plays Alice after they cast her,

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_09]: they found out that she actually plays the piano.

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_09]: So she's playing the piano for real in the scene, but that's not her on the soundtrack.

[01:07:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, wow. I was like, if that's her on the soundtrack,

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_09]: get out because it was amazing.

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But apparently she is quite good and they were like jamming on.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I so wish I were in this show.

[01:07:47] [SPEAKER_09]: It just sounds like they had such a good time.

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_09]: They were like jamming on set and they're and they're like those

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_09]: interviews where they're talking to each other like, oh, yeah.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_09]: And then Patty Lapone got Ali to play this song and on the piano.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_09]: And we were all singing and like, what?

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Why was I not there?

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Teen says he can play the guitar kind of.

[01:08:09] [SPEAKER_09]: So here we have him in the coven again.

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_09]: So is he or isn't he?

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_07]: He is not in the coven.

[01:08:17] [SPEAKER_07]: No.

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And Agatha, I mean, she's the lead singer,

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I guess because it is her show, although people are like, why is Patty

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Lapone not the lead singer?

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Because this show is called Agatha all along, Matt Lilly all along.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's the one who is on the road.

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. She's the which that's on the ringleader of the road witches.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_07]: You know what I mean?

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_07]: So it makes sense that she's

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, the lead singer because

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_07]: ostensibly, she's the leader of this coven.

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I find it interesting though that the curse,

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_09]: it doesn't hit her until they're about to start singing.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_09]: So she actually says like, let's do the trial before she suffers the consequence.

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's just interesting that it's delayed compared to the others.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_09]: And I wonder if it's the same pattern that we saw with the curse hitting them

[01:09:12] [SPEAKER_09]: when they drank the wine, you know?

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And if they're carrying that forward because Agatha delayed drinking

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_09]: the wine so that hit her later than the rest of them.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_09]: We're paying attention to that.

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_09]: And it's funny also that nobody says anything to Rio, but Rio, while they're

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_09]: having this whole conversation, what should we do?

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Rio is already sitting at the drums.

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_08]: And the curse never hits her either.

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_08]: Right? Not that we saw.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that we saw.

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Nope. Yeah.

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_09]: That's interesting too.

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. And then Alice finally says, the curse, I can see it.

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I can kill it.

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Nice.

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Sean, do you want to take the last part of the last year?

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_07]: Another Fleetwood Mac reference is that came to me while we were talking.

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_07]: They have a song that's called what?

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Gold Dust Woman.

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And on this in this episode on the soundtrack on the record, it's what?

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Red Haired Woman.

[01:10:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Good point.

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah. When you when you pointed it out, I was like, wait a minute,

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_07]: there's a Fleetwood Mac song about a woman.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I know it.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Fleetwood Mac notably Very Witchy as a band.

[01:10:32] [SPEAKER_08]: Very witchy.

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Powerful wicking in the 20th century.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm into it.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_10]: Perfect.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to call on.

[01:10:39] [SPEAKER_10]: That's what I say.

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_07]: It's very powerful.

[01:10:42] [SPEAKER_07]: It is Stevie.

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Let me say it is.

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_07]: All right.

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Campfire Revelations.

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Alice and the rest are able to kill the demon with the ballad.

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_07]: But teen is revealed to severely wounded.

[01:10:56] [SPEAKER_07]: The Coven escapes the house and tends to saving his life.

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Lillia, Alice and Jen bond with each other and Agatha checks on teen who ask what

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_07]: happened to her son, but she ignores the question later.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Rio and Agatha talk about their past.

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_07]: And as Agatha tries to kiss Rio,

[01:11:18] [SPEAKER_07]: she tells Agatha that teen is not her son.

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, so I find it interesting that Agatha,

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_09]: you know, we saw her so callous about Sharon, but when teen is hurts,

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_09]: she's like legit upset about this.

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, and also there was an interesting exchange here.

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_09]: We'll maybe talk about more later.

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_09]: But Lillia says he's young, he's strong.

[01:11:42] [SPEAKER_09]: And Agatha is like dope.

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_09]: And then after that, she looks right at Rio and says again, more pleadingly,

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_09]: dope.

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_09]: So what do you think she wants to do to don't?

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't take him.

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_08]: I think Rio is so powerful and she's the she has the ability to like mastermind

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_08]: any situation and I think she's pleading with like, don't take him.

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't kill him.

[01:12:05] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, don't kill him.

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, because she said she wants bodies.

[01:12:09] [SPEAKER_07]: Because they got to go on the road.

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_07]: They got to keep going on the road.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_07]: We don't have time for, you know, to carry somebody on a stretcher,

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_07]: on a makeshift stretcher.

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, and what's the easiest thing to do?

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but we do like we do.

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we see Agatha though, like in this, she even says a teen at one point.

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_09]: She says, you don't need to know who someone, know someone's name to know

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_09]: who someone is. So she really seems to think that he might be this missing son.

[01:12:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Nicholas scratch we keep getting teases of and then, you know, and Rio sees us

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_09]: and says to him, it's not him, Agatha.

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_09]: It's not him.

[01:12:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And she takes it hard.

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_08]: Do you think Rio's just manipulating her?

[01:13:00] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_09]: So you think Rio doesn't know that it's not him, but she's just saying that.

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_08]: Or Rio knows that it is him and she's just messing with Agatha to like play

[01:13:12] [SPEAKER_08]: with this like weird long con that she has.

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know. It's an idea.

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_08]: I know, John, you don't think it's him?

[01:13:20] [SPEAKER_07]: I in that in that moment, I thought that

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_07]: she was messing with her.

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Like this is a mind.

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_07]: This was a mind game.

[01:13:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Like I don't know if Rio, I don't believe that I know that Rio knows whether

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_07]: teen is her son or not.

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, because in that moment, they were about to

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_08]: they were getting very close, right?

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Very vulnerable and very close.

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think it's Rio's job in her head to keep Agatha at a distance

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_08]: because she knows that she's going to have to hurt Agatha later down the road.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_08]: Like literally.

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_08]: So I think that was Rio's way of protecting Rio and pushing Agatha away in that moment.

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Putting up a barrier.

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Putting up a barrier.

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_07]: And I feel like she knew to say that in that moment would cause the most hurt.

[01:14:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_07]: Would be the thing that would be most hurtful in that moment to look at her

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_07]: and say, that's not your son.

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_07]: So I don't think she knows.

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think she did it out of, you know, again,

[01:14:28] [SPEAKER_07]: like you said, Nicole, just to put something between them to stop this

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_07]: closeness from reoccurring and also just to just to hurt her.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And build tension.

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that that's what this character arc is doing for the audience.

[01:14:44] [SPEAKER_08]: It's just we're going to build tension for a while.

[01:14:46] [SPEAKER_08]: And that tension is going to break.

[01:14:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:14:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Hopefully soon, but like it probably won't.

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[01:14:52] [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_08]: But the tension is building and building.

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_08]: And it's salacious.

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_08]: It really is.

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_08]: It's really interesting.

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_08]: And it goes back to this idea that you can, the people that you know the most,

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_08]: you can hurt the most because you know exactly what to say.

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_08]: Just to kind of take that dig.

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's how I interpreted it.

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_08]: That's what she's doing, whether she knows or not, she's playing with her.

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:15:18] [SPEAKER_08]: In a really wretched way.

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_09]: So we also get this, this win for Jennifer where she's teens hurt and they're like,

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_09]: what do we do, Jen?

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And because she's the Potions Witch and she's like water and moonlight.

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_09]: And she, you know, she does her chanting with the water and the moonlight and it

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_09]: works, it heals the wounds in teens side.

[01:15:39] [SPEAKER_09]: But in the middle of this going on,

[01:15:41] [SPEAKER_09]: where we'll talk about more of Lily is out first in a minute, but she blurts

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_09]: out three of sorts and the three of swords tarot card is the card that most

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_09]: often stands for heartbreak, emotional pain, sorrow, grief and hurt.

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_07]: All of that is happening.

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_07]: It's all going down.

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's all going down.

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Everything tied that to healing teen.

[01:16:05] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, yeah, all of that is happening within this entire episode.

[01:16:10] [SPEAKER_07]: And teen is at the crux of it.

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And we got we talked a lot about Alice's resentment toward her mom,

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_09]: which she says, when mom died, I stopped believing everything she ever taught me.

[01:16:22] [SPEAKER_09]: I was so angry.

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Part of me wished the road wasn't real so I could stay angry.

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_09]: And Lily responds sad is better than angry.

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you agree?

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I kind of do.

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know because, you know,

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_06]: because, you know,

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_06]: being angry

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_07]: at your parents, right?

[01:16:48] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:16:50] [SPEAKER_07]: It's something that most people feel at some point in their lives.

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And to hold on to it can be so damaging to your own life as you go forward.

[01:17:05] [SPEAKER_07]: So letting it go, letting go of the anger that you that you have towards anyone really

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_07]: in a way that allows you to go on.

[01:17:20] [SPEAKER_07]: To be the best version of yourself,

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_07]: because I really feel that can hold you back.

[01:17:27] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_07]: So when she says, you know, being sad is better than being angry.

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_07]: Sadness is something that you can feel.

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't have to hold back, but I really feel that anger,

[01:17:39] [SPEAKER_07]: especially anger at people who you love,

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_07]: can really take a put you in a vice.

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_07]: And you get stuck.

[01:17:53] [SPEAKER_07]: You get stuck in a place and it's very hard to come out of that place.

[01:17:57] [SPEAKER_07]: Being angry at the people who you feel should love you the most.

[01:18:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And if she felt that way about her mom,

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_07]: then I can only imagine how her life.

[01:18:11] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't need to imagine how her life is because we saw how it was.

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_07]: She was not living the best version of herself.

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_07]: She was not the best version of herself far from it

[01:18:22] [SPEAKER_07]: and to trace it back to

[01:18:25] [SPEAKER_07]: the issues that she had with her mother and to let that go.

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And you can see in her portrayal,

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Alice's face, her body language,

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_07]: everything just feels different at the end of that trial.

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_07]: It looks different.

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_07]: She looks.

[01:18:45] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that's the burden of the anger being lifted.

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_07]: So I agree that sadness is better than angry.

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_08]: I think anger is more an outward manifestation and sadness is more

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_08]: internalized and that internalization allows for human growth.

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_08]: Anger is the mask that our sadness wears,

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_08]: that you can't allow yourself to be sad and vulnerable.

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_08]: So you just project that back out.

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_08]: But once you take that mask off,

[01:19:19] [SPEAKER_08]: the anger can kind of seep in and turn to

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_08]: this really introspective feeling that you're trying to make sense of it.

[01:19:28] [SPEAKER_08]: So I think sadness gives us opportunity for growth and anger prevents our growth.

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's what we're seeing here if we're talking about

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_08]: this whole show is about iterations of the self and how we can grow and

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_08]: develop over time and we face these trials in our life.

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_08]: And those trials make us stronger or they don't.

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_08]: But there's always any trial can lead to strength and growth.

[01:19:55] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that for Alice in this episode, she is taking that mask of anger off,

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_08]: that curse of anger off and resentment off.

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_08]: And then now starting to feel maybe

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_08]: this grief towards her mother that she didn't allow herself to experience before.

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_08]: And that's going to lead to enlightenment for this character to become richer

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_08]: and more nuanced and really analyze herself a little bit more to realize

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_08]: that she was putting up had this armor on of anger for a really long time.

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_08]: And not just towards her mom, but it manifested in a lot of different aspects

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_08]: of her life. And it's really cool to see where she's sitting by the campfire

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_08]: in this final episode, her affect,

[01:20:35] [SPEAKER_08]: which is like how we wear emotion on our body.

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Psychologists call it your affect, how your affect completely changed for her

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_08]: and her body language change, her posturing change,

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_08]: her relationship and dialogue with the other folks in the coven changed too

[01:20:50] [SPEAKER_08]: and became a little bit softer and a little bit more patient.

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that there's place for sadness.

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_08]: I think there's place for anger too.

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_08]: From the right.

[01:21:00] [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_08]: For sure. But I think that growth comes from sadness in a way that we don't

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_08]: get from anger.

[01:21:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But also she's been clinging to anger for so much of her life.

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_09]: You have the implication that her mother died quite a while ago.

[01:21:16] [SPEAKER_09]: So it's yeah, it is time, I suppose, for her to move on to the next stage of grief.

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And not just her carrying the anger, but her mother carried that anger too.

[01:21:24] [SPEAKER_08]: And probably her grandmother carried that anger too.

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_08]: Like this why me feeling and that is the burden of this generational trauma

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_08]: we're talking about here is like why?

[01:21:36] [SPEAKER_08]: When do I get to release it?

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_08]: Why do I have to carry it?

[01:21:39] [SPEAKER_08]: It wasn't my curse.

[01:21:40] [SPEAKER_08]: Why am I stuck with it?

[01:21:42] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that that's it's a huge burden and we're all carrying it spoiler.

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_08]: But this is again here in this episode.

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_08]: It's much more opaque.

[01:21:53] Yeah.

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:21:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, another theme that I'm interested in in this show in general on another note

[01:22:01] [SPEAKER_09]: that I'm actually going to be doing a subscriber episode talking with

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Marilyn about the evolution of the Coven.

[01:22:08] [SPEAKER_09]: And what I'm interested in in that sense is just how through history,

[01:22:13] [SPEAKER_09]: the term which has been a way to demonize especially women, although I have to

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_09]: acknowledge there are a lot of male witches today and throughout history,

[01:22:22] [SPEAKER_09]: like in Iceland and several other places in Eastern Europe,

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_09]: it was predominantly male witches who were killed during the witch trials.

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_09]: But it's a way to demonize people.

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_09]: This calling them a witch.

[01:22:34] [SPEAKER_09]: But now we also see this evolution of using this term, reclaiming it as a way

[01:22:39] [SPEAKER_09]: to reclaim power.

[01:22:42] [SPEAKER_09]: So this is one of the lighter moments.

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_09]: So we won't go deep into this right now because it's still be a recurring

[01:22:47] [SPEAKER_09]: theme, but this is one of the lighter moments about

[01:22:51] [SPEAKER_09]: being a witch and what people think of you.

[01:22:54] [SPEAKER_04]: You know, the worst part of being a witch,

[01:22:56] [SPEAKER_04]: all the misconceptions and rumor mongering

[01:23:00] [SPEAKER_04]: that we talked to goats that we've all got an extra nipple.

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys don't have extra nipples.

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm covered in nipples.

[01:23:09] [SPEAKER_03]: You want to see?

[01:23:10] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you.

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_09]: So first of all, we need Madison back.

[01:23:17] [SPEAKER_09]: She talks to goats, which is Madison's a she-hulk reference for Nicole and anyone

[01:23:22] [SPEAKER_09]: who doesn't know.

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_09]: But at some point she she disappears through a portal to a demonic dimension

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_09]: where she's made a deal with the goat.

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Well, the lore is deep.

[01:23:35] [SPEAKER_09]: OK, cool. I'm in.

[01:23:38] [SPEAKER_07]: She she-hulk is recommended.

[01:23:39] [SPEAKER_07]: It's recommended.

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Definitely recommend.

[01:23:42] [SPEAKER_09]: That's one of the ones you should dive into.

[01:23:44] [SPEAKER_09]: So it's lighthearted, but also with the.

[01:23:46] [SPEAKER_08]: I'll tell you, ever since I started hanging out with you guys,

[01:23:48] [SPEAKER_08]: the list is getting long and recommended.

[01:23:50] [SPEAKER_08]: You know, every time there's a conversation,

[01:23:52] [SPEAKER_08]: I leave with like homework of like other stuff to watch.

[01:23:55] [SPEAKER_08]: I'm into it, but it's a lot.

[01:23:57] [SPEAKER_09]: There's a lot of things in your MCU journey.

[01:24:00] [SPEAKER_09]: This is one of the ones.

[01:24:02] [SPEAKER_07]: All right, we recommend definitely highly.

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_09]: We also get an Easter egg where Agatha, she points to she has a scar on her

[01:24:11] [SPEAKER_09]: elbow, she says, is from a knitting needle, a knitting needle

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_09]: as a scar from the Daughters of Liberty.

[01:24:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And she's like, you ever hear about the Daughters of Liberty?

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[01:24:21] [SPEAKER_09]: And so it sounds in the show or in the MCU like she fought them.

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_09]: But I do have to point out in the comics at one point, a younger Agatha was a member.

[01:24:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Right.

[01:24:32] [SPEAKER_08]: That's wild.

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's an Easter egg.

[01:24:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And then Rio, we get, oh my gosh, we get.

[01:24:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Rio says that she has a scar of her own.

[01:24:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I've got a scar.

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you deaf?

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I do.

[01:24:49] [SPEAKER_03]: A long time ago,

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I loved someone

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_03]: and I had to do something that I did not want to do, even though it was my job.

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: And it hurt them.

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: She is my scar.

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, first of all, it was my job.

[01:25:23] [SPEAKER_09]: But we're getting, yeah, we're getting some insight into what might have gone wrong

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_09]: between them.

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_08]: And we're seeing a vulnerability from Rio in the scene that we don't like a

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_08]: humor, you know, which we're not getting.

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_08]: And Aubrey Plaza is just fantastic.

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_08]: And this is such like an Aubrey Plaza moment, this like deadpan.

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_08]: Like, are you being, are you joking?

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Are you serious?

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_08]: Like how social when she's talking about the nipples, but this scar piece,

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_08]: it feels softer and nice.

[01:25:56] [SPEAKER_08]: It feels tender in a way that's like really intriguing to the audience.

[01:26:01] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.

[01:26:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, do we think that this has to do this thing she had to do that hurt presumably

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Agatha?

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Do we think it has to do with Agatha's son, Nicholas?

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_07]: Hmm.

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh.

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't think about that.

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, my gosh.

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, let's let's see.

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:26:30] [SPEAKER_07]: It could possibly because

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_07]: if Nicholas is

[01:26:37] [SPEAKER_07]: maybe let me just say maybe, maybe because we don't know

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_07]: how Nicholas came to be.

[01:26:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_07]: So

[01:26:49] [SPEAKER_07]: maybe

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_07]: maybe there is something that had to be done to Nicholas

[01:26:56] [SPEAKER_07]: in order to keep people safe.

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_09]: We know Nicholas is gone.

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_09]: We got that empty child bedroom when Agatha was in her hex.

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_07]: And everybody seems to think that she gave Nicholas away.

[01:27:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:27:11] [SPEAKER_07]: To gain power.

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_07]: But what if Nicholas was actually taken from?

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:27:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And why and was real involved.

[01:27:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[01:27:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Hmm.

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.

[01:27:26] [SPEAKER_07]: So maybe.

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe.

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_08]: I guess we'll just have to watch and find out, right?

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_08]: And like, should I go and buy all the comic books this afternoon?

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I mean, as we keep pointing out, I mean, I definitely recommend

[01:27:40] [SPEAKER_09]: I can give you a specific comic recommendations.

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_07]: But not for this part.

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Not for this part because as we keep pointing out,

[01:27:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Jean and I that the MCU plays fast and loose with the comics.

[01:27:50] [SPEAKER_09]: So they take inspiration like Nicholas scratch is a character

[01:27:53] [SPEAKER_09]: in the comics, but we definitely do not get this emotional depth with him.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_11]: Right.

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_08]: I will say about this episode,

[01:28:02] [SPEAKER_08]: this was the first episode that as someone that is like new to this whole scene,

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_08]: that it looked like a comic book more to me.

[01:28:11] [SPEAKER_08]: Just the way it was structured.

[01:28:13] [SPEAKER_08]: And I love that it reminds me like, oh, right.

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_08]: This is from a comic, like the way that they

[01:28:19] [SPEAKER_08]: did the cinematography of it.

[01:28:20] [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that that's I love that.

[01:28:22] [SPEAKER_08]: I just love that convention.

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_08]: And I want to see more of that.

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_08]: And then I got that for sure.

[01:28:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, the Witches Road really looks like the Witches Road in the comics for sure.

[01:28:33] [SPEAKER_09]: OK, well, as far as the character questions that we all have,

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_09]: we'll leave the listeners a moment to ponder them over a quick break.

[01:28:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Then we're going to come back and talk about the clues that we have for

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_09]: the members of the Coven.

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Down the witches, follow me, my friend,

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_00]: to glory at the end.

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_09]: OK, now before we get this last part is going to be Jean and I,

[01:29:04] [SPEAKER_09]: we are saying our goodbyes to Nicole for now.

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But thank you so much for joining us.

[01:29:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you. Thank you.

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and all of your insights.

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you both.

[01:29:15] [SPEAKER_08]: It's been really fun to kind of add

[01:29:17] [SPEAKER_08]: hopefully some value to this conversation.

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_08]: I've been really enjoying watching this show and it's really great to kind

[01:29:24] [SPEAKER_08]: of process it with people and talk with people about it.

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_08]: And can I plug our podcast?

[01:29:30] [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, please do.

[01:29:32] [SPEAKER_08]: So if you like the vibe of intersectionality of things in like a nerd sphere

[01:29:39] [SPEAKER_08]: and psychology, check out our podcast Never Mind the Music.

[01:29:44] [SPEAKER_08]: It's available on the Lorhoun speed, also on other podcast places.

[01:29:49] [SPEAKER_08]: We drop new episodes every Tuesday and focusing a lot on like

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_08]: elder millennial Gen X types of music, breaking it down from like

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_08]: compositional elements and psychological elements too.

[01:30:01] [SPEAKER_08]: And we have a lot of fun doing it.

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_08]: So I hope you check us out.

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_09]: But also a lot of people who like Marilyn, for example, she's like,

[01:30:08] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know this music, but the conversation is enjoyable.

[01:30:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, the conversations you have about it are worth listening to.

[01:30:16] [SPEAKER_09]: And you get to learn new music if you're not familiar with a particular

[01:30:18] [SPEAKER_09]: song of any given episode.

[01:30:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Who doesn't know Spandau Blah, right?

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_08]: You know what the thing about Spandau Ballet is?

[01:30:24] [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't I knew that song, but I didn't like pin it to that band.

[01:30:28] [SPEAKER_08]: Like until Mark started playing it for me, I was like, oh, right.

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_08]: Like I love this song.

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_08]: So Mark is my co-host.

[01:30:35] [SPEAKER_08]: She's definitely the mastermind.

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_08]: I am providing ready banter and an affable sense of humor.

[01:30:41] [SPEAKER_09]: And listeners heard his breakdown of the ballad last week.

[01:30:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah, he gets into it.

[01:30:47] [SPEAKER_08]: And we have a lot of fun together.

[01:30:49] [SPEAKER_08]: We have a good rapport.

[01:30:49] [SPEAKER_08]: We've been friends for years and it's just fun to kind of gather together

[01:30:52] [SPEAKER_08]: and talk about stuff we're both very, very passionate about.

[01:30:55] [SPEAKER_08]: So I hope you check it out and you enjoy it.

[01:30:58] [SPEAKER_08]: And there you go.

[01:30:59] [SPEAKER_08]: Don't forget to like and subscribe or whatever.

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and you'll find that link in the show notes.

[01:31:05] [SPEAKER_09]: OK, well, thank you, Nicole.

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you again.

[01:31:08] [SPEAKER_09]: All right.

[01:31:08] [SPEAKER_09]: So now that it's just us two nerds.

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Let's let's get into a little bit of a nerd too.

[01:31:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, she's got the we'll bring out the Marvel nerd in her.

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we'll make her a Marvel nerd.

[01:31:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, definitely, definitely.

[01:31:25] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, let's let's get into a bit deeper into

[01:31:29] [SPEAKER_09]: per the main characters, what are the new clues and revelations we got this

[01:31:34] [SPEAKER_09]: episode? So since this was Alice's trial, let's start with her.

[01:31:39] [SPEAKER_09]: We of course, we have the answer as to why she's bad luck.

[01:31:42] [SPEAKER_09]: We talked about the curse and the curse scars.

[01:31:48] [SPEAKER_09]: And we also find out that Alice's mother did die on the road, but not the witch's road.

[01:31:54] [SPEAKER_09]: She died while on tour from a fire.

[01:31:58] [SPEAKER_09]: So do you think we still we still might see her spirit on the witch's road?

[01:32:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think so.

[01:32:04] [SPEAKER_09]: No, I don't think so.

[01:32:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I don't think so.

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_07]: The only the only thing that gives me pause, like there's a 10 percent chance

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_07]: is I she's all her mom was about protecting her.

[01:32:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And if she's in mortal danger after the curse has been lifted,

[01:32:26] [SPEAKER_07]: will her mom be there to assist to help her?

[01:32:31] [SPEAKER_07]: So and I still feel like they're not through.

[01:32:35] [SPEAKER_07]: She's through her trial, but she's not out of danger.

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:32:40] [SPEAKER_07]: So there's a there's like a 10 percent part of me that says because she's not out

[01:32:45] [SPEAKER_07]: of danger yet, that her mom can still play a role, save her.

[01:32:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:32:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And do you think that so we know now that this song, her version of The Ballad

[01:32:56] [SPEAKER_09]: of the Witch's Road, where she changed up the lyrics, we know that this was

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_09]: a protection spell, do we think she was also trying to open the road with her

[01:33:05] [SPEAKER_09]: concerts as they suggested or just the protection spell part?

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I think it was just the protection spell.

[01:33:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I wouldn't.

[01:33:13] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, she said to Alice that she would find her salvation on the road.

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_09]: So I wonder if there was part of it where because Laura must have also

[01:33:23] [SPEAKER_09]: of course she wants to protect her daughter, but I'm sure she's also like

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_09]: I would like to not have this curse.

[01:33:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. Right.

[01:33:29] [SPEAKER_07]: But I don't know if she felt she would like not to have this curse or was she

[01:33:35] [SPEAKER_07]: resigned to the curse killing her?

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_10]: Hmm.

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_07]: And just making sure that her daughter did die curse.

[01:33:43] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is why she, you know,

[01:33:48] [SPEAKER_07]: made the song like I may not be able to save myself, but I'm going to save

[01:33:53] [SPEAKER_07]: the daughter in the way that I can.

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And I think that's that's what she did.

[01:34:00] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if she was touring to find a way onto the road.

[01:34:09] [SPEAKER_07]: I think she was touring to make sure that this song became successful

[01:34:16] [SPEAKER_07]: so that her daughter would never have to worry about the curse.

[01:34:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And the interesting part is that her daughter still felt the effects of the

[01:34:27] [SPEAKER_07]: curse, but in a different way.

[01:34:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:34:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_07]: So right.

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_07]: But she did.

[01:34:32] [SPEAKER_07]: She still affected her.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_09]: She had bad luck, but as Agatha said, she should have been burnt to a crisp

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_09]: and that didn't happen.

[01:34:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. Exactly.

[01:34:41] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, the curse still affected her, but her mom,

[01:34:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Lorna actually did what she intended to was to keep her alive.

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:34:52] [SPEAKER_09]: And then Alice points out two years after this tour, we had to sell the

[01:34:55] [SPEAKER_09]: catalog to keep the house so they don't even get the money from that song.

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:34:59] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.

[01:35:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[01:35:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Moving on to Jen.

[01:35:03] [SPEAKER_09]: So we got Jen, we got a lot of revelations about her in that campfire talk at the end.

[01:35:08] [SPEAKER_09]: We find out that she was an 11th generation root worker and midwife.

[01:35:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And so root worker is a hoodoo word, hoodoo term.

[01:35:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And so not voodoo.

[01:35:22] [SPEAKER_09]: You were hoping for a couple of voodoo characters, but we were who were voodoo

[01:35:26] [SPEAKER_09]: adjacent now we've got.

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_09]: And so the root workers are known as conjurers.

[01:35:33] [SPEAKER_09]: So we're finally getting a connection with her comics counterpart where they are

[01:35:37] [SPEAKER_09]: kind of conjurers of demons in a way.

[01:35:40] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, this of course I had to look this up.

[01:35:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Hoodoo practitioners, Florida swamps and yes,

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_09]: hoodoo is practiced in swamps of Florida's.

[01:35:51] [SPEAKER_09]: There were people called called swampers who would gather herbs in the swamps of

[01:35:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Florida and again, who else lives in the swamps of Florida?

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Man thing.

[01:36:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[01:36:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Theodore Salas, the my cursed baby, the,

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah, the super soldier serum gone wrong at least that's the way it is in the

[01:36:15] [SPEAKER_09]: comics. We don't know what his whole transformation story is going to be in the

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_09]: MCU, but he did appear in the MCU for anyone who doesn't know.

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Watch Werewolf by Night right now.

[01:36:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Perfect Spooktober less than an hour.

[01:36:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, just classic horror.

[01:36:28] [SPEAKER_09]: So good.

[01:36:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm really intrigued by this because, you know,

[01:36:34] [SPEAKER_07]: hoodoo is a tradition practiced by enslaved Africans, right?

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_07]: In the Americas.

[01:36:40] [SPEAKER_07]: So I'm really

[01:36:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to see this conversation.

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_07]: I want to see this this

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_07]: cultural thing

[01:36:52] [SPEAKER_07]: fleshed out a little bit more.

[01:36:55] [SPEAKER_07]: So with and if they're doing that in the MCU,

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_07]: I think that's going to be really, really great things for a character like Blade

[01:37:06] [SPEAKER_07]: down the road with the supernatural.

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_07]: Just really interesting that they've

[01:37:15] [SPEAKER_07]: gone on record, so to speak, to say that this exists in this universe.

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_07]: So and Jen is a 11th generation

[01:37:26] [SPEAKER_07]: contour or root worker.

[01:37:28] [SPEAKER_07]: So that mean how powerful is she?

[01:37:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:37:36] [SPEAKER_07]: To have been bound by this white man.

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:37:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. So we find out she was bound in an event in Boston by a non magical man who

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_09]: the one who called her inconvenient and tried to drown her.

[01:37:48] [SPEAKER_09]: He later there as a trap.

[01:37:49] [SPEAKER_09]: So this is back to that like demonizing

[01:37:52] [SPEAKER_09]: the power of witches, of witchy women.

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_09]: You know.

[01:37:56] [SPEAKER_07]: And when we talk in the feedback,

[01:37:58] [SPEAKER_07]: there's something that my niece, Tima wrote

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_07]: that I'm going to, you know, she sent me a message about this

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_07]: in particular.

[01:38:08] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's really interesting that the show runners, that they're doing this type

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_07]: of story, including this type of history within the coven,

[01:38:18] [SPEAKER_07]: because we often don't get the representation of African mythology,

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_07]: African mysticism, African magic in any major, you know, like

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_07]: productions of magical stories.

[01:38:36] [SPEAKER_07]: So it's really great to see that they have

[01:38:41] [SPEAKER_07]: hopefully embraced this part of the magical realm, which is a big part

[01:38:46] [SPEAKER_07]: of the MCU Marvel comics.

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm going to be really interested to see how plays out in further episodes.

[01:38:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:38:59] [SPEAKER_09]: Because so in the comics, Jennifer Kale was introduced in the 70s.

[01:39:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And so now we know she's at least a century old in the MCU.

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_09]: So she's older than even in the comics, although in the comics, of course,

[01:39:11] [SPEAKER_09]: the characters like magically just don't age, whatever it is what it is.

[01:39:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Doctor Strange is always the same age.

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_09]: So is Jennifer.

[01:39:18] [SPEAKER_09]: But also she's she's a white woman.

[01:39:20] [SPEAKER_09]: She's a blonde woman and she has this her history goes back to Atlantis,

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_09]: which I have a feeling they're tying more to Lillias history in this version.

[01:39:29] [SPEAKER_09]: So I have the feeling that they are

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_09]: they are grounding there must be a reason why they made her older.

[01:39:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And I wonder if we will get these references that you're these historical

[01:39:39] [SPEAKER_09]: references that you're mentioning. Right.

[01:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: All right.

[01:39:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:39:44] [SPEAKER_09]: So speaking of Lillia,

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_09]: we know that she is probably the oldest of the lot.

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_09]: She's 450 years old.

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_09]: We know from promotional materials.

[01:39:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And we also saw, of course, in her vision, we saw her young self in the renaissance.

[01:40:03] [SPEAKER_09]: she in this episode, as herself,

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_09]: seemingly, she looks at those witch paintings that are in the studio which show

[01:40:10] [SPEAKER_09]: like witches being killed by in the various ways they were killed in the

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_09]: witch trials and she starts crying.

[01:40:15] [SPEAKER_09]: And I have to wonder if this is reminding her of growing up in 16th century

[01:40:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Sicily, which is when the witch trials took place.

[01:40:23] [SPEAKER_09]: And last week we heard she said in Sicilian when she had her vision,

[01:40:28] [SPEAKER_09]: she's dead, they're all dead.

[01:40:30] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm wondering if it's connected to that.

[01:40:33] [SPEAKER_09]: And I also have to bring up that in the Scarlet Witch Volume Two,

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_09]: the Witches Road comics that we've been talking about number five,

[01:40:41] [SPEAKER_09]: which came out in 2016, Wanda visits a vineyard in Rioja,

[01:40:46] [SPEAKER_09]: which happens to be where the wine from last week's episode was from.

[01:40:50] [SPEAKER_09]: And she helps the centuries old spirits of cursed nuns who were accused

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_09]: of witchcraft, who were and murdered.

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_09]: She helps them find rest.

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_09]: So I do have to wonder if they're tying that in somehow.

[01:41:03] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I think they are with how she's being portrayed.

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_07]: Like, obviously when she says they're dead, they're all dead for me.

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_07]: This maybe it's not obvious.

[01:41:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Let me not say obviously, but for me, when she says that,

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_07]: I immediately thought of maybe her original coven, her original family,

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_07]: as well as this one.

[01:41:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[01:41:28] [SPEAKER_07]: And a bit of foreshadowing to what happens to the Coven members.

[01:41:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:41:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:41:37] [SPEAKER_07]: So I thought she was reliving something and maybe possibly seeing something

[01:41:43] [SPEAKER_07]: that might happen, which is what the tier was for as well.

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Not just for what she lost in the past, but what she could potentially lose in the future.

[01:41:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:41:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:41:58] [SPEAKER_09]: And speaking of her, she seems to be sometimes maybe pulled out of time.

[01:42:02] [SPEAKER_09]: We're still not sure.

[01:42:03] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, Nicole brought up these outbursts and we get in the studio in this.

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_09]: We get the outburst.

[01:42:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Am I wispy or am I kooky?

[01:42:10] [SPEAKER_09]: And then when Alice is like, oh, a bit of both.

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_09]: She turns and it's like she's just sees Alice.

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_09]: She's like, Alice, Alice, don't.

[01:42:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And then that thought is interrupted.

[01:42:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And of course, she has no idea what they're talking about.

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:42:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Like she's taken over her body was taken over by she was displaced by some

[01:42:28] [SPEAKER_07]: right thing or someone else.

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's what I'm sorry to wonder if that's what's happening with these outbursts.

[01:42:37] [SPEAKER_09]: And then at the campfire, we get, you know, we really kind of hated each other in

[01:42:41] [SPEAKER_09]: the beginning, but now and then she cuts off and people like, but now.

[01:42:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And she's like, but now what?

[01:42:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[01:42:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, it's certainly something is happening to her where she's, you know,

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_07]: someone else or something else is taken over or she's just reliving

[01:42:57] [SPEAKER_07]: moments of her history potentially as well.

[01:43:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And speaking of moments of her history,

[01:43:03] [SPEAKER_09]: we got something in the comic she is friends with an important werewolf.

[01:43:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But in the MCU, we got a reference that she is a vampire by speaking of blade.

[01:43:14] [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm wondering if I actually, I don't know if you've read any.

[01:43:20] [SPEAKER_09]: There's a comics event that like just happened.

[01:43:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I read the whole thing.

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_07]: It's called the Blood Hunt event for anyone.

[01:43:27] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:43:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_07]: it was really good, actually.

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Did you want to talk about Varney?

[01:43:35] [SPEAKER_07]: So Varney was a sorcerer from Atlantis who became the first vampire

[01:43:41] [SPEAKER_07]: and he became the first vampire by using the Darkhold.

[01:43:46] [SPEAKER_07]: The Darkhold, which is as we've spoken

[01:43:50] [SPEAKER_07]: about throughout the first three episodes of Darkhold is the magical book

[01:43:56] [SPEAKER_07]: that's in the MCU.

[01:43:59] [SPEAKER_07]: And also if you watched

[01:44:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Doctor Strange, Multiverse of Madness, you know, it's connection to Wanda

[01:44:09] [SPEAKER_07]: and in WandaVision with Agatha as well.

[01:44:14] [SPEAKER_09]: And she's a cute, straightening her son for for the Darkhold.

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_07]: And we even get I think it was Rio who told her, you know,

[01:44:22] [SPEAKER_07]: something of in the first episode about Darkhold, she no longer has it.

[01:44:27] [SPEAKER_07]: She lost her power because of that.

[01:44:30] [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, this is a pretty big potential for a big bad who may not be on anyone's radar

[01:44:41] [SPEAKER_07]: to possibly pop up on the radar.

[01:44:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And Varney, he possesses blade at one point, right?

[01:44:48] [SPEAKER_07]: So in the comics, the bloodline

[01:44:51] [SPEAKER_07]: what Varney does is use blade and possesses blade and blade blots out the sun,

[01:45:02] [SPEAKER_07]: allowing vampires to run rampant over the.

[01:45:07] [SPEAKER_07]: So it causes all the heroes to gather together in order to defeat the threat

[01:45:12] [SPEAKER_07]: because they thought originally that it was just blade gone bad.

[01:45:16] [SPEAKER_07]: And then they learned that it was Varney who had taken possession of blades, body and soul.

[01:45:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:45:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I find it interesting.

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And also he has at one point he like it stations himself in Wakanda, right?

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is interesting just because the MCU is it's it's an important place in the MCU.

[01:45:37] [SPEAKER_09]: So they might.

[01:45:38] [SPEAKER_07]: So what he actually what he actually does is takes an ancient

[01:45:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Atlantean temple, ancient temple from Wakanda and transports it to New York City.

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_07]: And that is the seed of his of his power.

[01:45:54] [SPEAKER_07]: So that that's the connection to Wakanda that this ancient temple existed

[01:46:00] [SPEAKER_07]: within Wakanda's borders and Varney and they for him to be able to access

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_07]: his full power and to become godlike.

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_07]: He needed to be stationed at this temple and he had it magic

[01:46:14] [SPEAKER_07]: transported from Wakanda to New York City.

[01:46:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah.

[01:46:20] [SPEAKER_09]: And we talked about in the episode two breakdown that Lillia,

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_09]: the fact that she was talking about being chased out of places for predicting

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_09]: doom because she's a divination witch that that reminded me of

[01:46:36] [SPEAKER_09]: of Zeredna, who's tied to Jennifer Kale's story.

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_09]: And that she that Zeredna is from Atlantis and she was kicked out of Atlantis

[01:46:45] [SPEAKER_09]: because she was like this whole place is going to go underwater.

[01:46:48] [SPEAKER_09]: And they're like, no, boo, get out of here.

[01:46:52] [SPEAKER_09]: So I find it interesting that there's this Atlantis connection.

[01:46:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And I also have to bring up another figure.

[01:46:57] [SPEAKER_09]: I think we mentioned Lilith, who yeah, we talked about in the episode one

[01:47:01] [SPEAKER_09]: breakdown about Agatha being naked and how Eve is not the only one from the Garden

[01:47:06] [SPEAKER_09]: of Eve and before Eve, there was Lilith who is known in the MCU and in real

[01:47:12] [SPEAKER_09]: world folklore as an arch mother of witches and Queen of Vampires

[01:47:16] [SPEAKER_09]: and also has an association in the MCU with Atlantis.

[01:47:20] [SPEAKER_09]: So just all interesting stuff in that playground they could be pulling from.

[01:47:23] [SPEAKER_07]: So but and I wonder if that's going to be really fleshed out because

[01:47:30] [SPEAKER_07]: in Black Panther 2, we saw, you know,

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_07]: Namor Namor was not from Atlantis, from the Atlantis that we know proper.

[01:47:44] [SPEAKER_07]: That has gone down through legend and through the Marvel comics.

[01:47:50] [SPEAKER_09]: So it's another man.

[01:47:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Right.

[01:47:52] [SPEAKER_07]: So what other undersea

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_07]: societies could exist within the Marvel

[01:48:01] [SPEAKER_07]: universe that is to be seen?

[01:48:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah, because I did seem to want to skirt the Atlantis thing because of Aquaman,

[01:48:07] [SPEAKER_09]: which I get. So yeah, I wonder if they'll if they would bring it up now or if

[01:48:12] [SPEAKER_09]: they'll just like go another way, as you say.

[01:48:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it would be cool if somehow Namor Namor tied into this.

[01:48:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I always want like, yeah, bring it all back together.

[01:48:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Bring all the characters together.

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you know,

[01:48:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if they would because of the way that the depiction of

[01:48:34] [SPEAKER_07]: their world was so different.

[01:48:38] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_07]: That's why I'm wondering if they have plans to debut another undersea civilization.

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, could be.

[01:48:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, maybe tied to an island because

[01:48:52] [SPEAKER_09]: well, my favorite Atlantis theory and yes, yes, yes, I know it's probably something

[01:48:56] [SPEAKER_09]: that was just made up as an allegory.

[01:48:58] [SPEAKER_09]: But my favorite theory is that it would be somewhere like

[01:49:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Malta or around Malta because there used to be more of Malta above ground.

[01:49:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And before, you know, the Mediterranean sea

[01:49:16] [SPEAKER_09]: flooded more and became, you know, more full of water after the last Ice Age.

[01:49:21] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, so we'll see.

[01:49:22] [SPEAKER_09]: We'll see.

[01:49:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Moving on to Rio Vidal or as Lilia puts it, scary bitch.

[01:49:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And she's right because she's very scary.

[01:49:36] [SPEAKER_09]: It's just very scary.

[01:49:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Let's just put it out there right now.

[01:49:39] [SPEAKER_07]: She's very scary.

[01:49:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Scary, sexy. Our favorite kind of scary.

[01:49:43] [SPEAKER_07]: I would not want to be, you know, walking down the street and she's following me.

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no, no, no.

[01:49:50] [SPEAKER_09]: But she crawled when she was summoned.

[01:49:53] [SPEAKER_09]: She crawled out of Sharon's grave and then said, heard you guys were having a

[01:49:56] [SPEAKER_09]: party, which is what Sharon was told.

[01:49:58] [SPEAKER_09]: So I just find that interesting.

[01:50:00] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, yes, yes.

[01:50:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Like did she somehow take over Sharon's body in some way to manifest herself

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_07]: that way or Sharon will back.

[01:50:08] [SPEAKER_09]: She's coming back.

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Sharon.

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_09]: I have no fear.

[01:50:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Sharon is coming back.

[01:50:14] [SPEAKER_09]: And then so, yeah, they were summoning a green witch, but then we hear.

[01:50:20] [SPEAKER_03]: So you're a green witch?

[01:50:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Less a green witch.

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_03]: More the green witch.

[01:50:32] [SPEAKER_09]: So what?

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, what does that mean is the question?

[01:50:35] [SPEAKER_09]: And that took me down the rabbit hole of for anyone who doesn't know.

[01:50:40] [SPEAKER_09]: I do have an interest in witchcraft I have ever since I was a teenager.

[01:50:46] [SPEAKER_09]: And an important figure in modern English folklore is the green man.

[01:50:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And I have to give a shout out to Wheel of Time, which uses the green man

[01:50:54] [SPEAKER_09]: on the end of the first book.

[01:50:55] [SPEAKER_09]: It doesn't show up in the TV show.

[01:50:56] [SPEAKER_09]: But anyway, the green man is always pictured covered in leaves,

[01:51:01] [SPEAKER_09]: which we see, of course, Rio crawls out of the grave, covered in leaves,

[01:51:05] [SPEAKER_09]: has a flower in her hand, very green man symbolism.

[01:51:09] [SPEAKER_09]: And the green man is a symbol of like seasonal renewal, you know,

[01:51:14] [SPEAKER_09]: the cycle of birth and redeth that happens every year with the seasons.

[01:51:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And in Wicca, the green man is considered an aspect of the horned god,

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_09]: which is the male side of Wicca.

[01:51:28] [SPEAKER_09]: But I don't I genuinely don't think that matters.

[01:51:31] [SPEAKER_09]: And the horned god is associated with nature, wilderness,

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_09]: sexuality, hunting and the life cycle.

[01:51:39] [SPEAKER_09]: And some say that he carries the souls of the dead to the underworld,

[01:51:43] [SPEAKER_09]: which is interesting because Rio Vidal means river of life,

[01:51:46] [SPEAKER_09]: river of life and and yeah, it's the green man or the horned god is considered

[01:51:52] [SPEAKER_09]: a comforter and solar after death and before reincarnation.

[01:51:56] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm wondering if there's a tie there.

[01:52:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And we also get this we also get this other tease

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_09]: where Rio says magic ferried the closest and most appropriate candidate down or up.

[01:52:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So we're implying some sort of demonic.

[01:52:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, or yeah, some sort of hmm.

[01:52:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And then OK, so we have this exchange.

[01:52:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Um,

[01:52:28] [SPEAKER_09]: so do you want to read Rio's part in green and I'll read Agatha's parts?

[01:52:33] [SPEAKER_09]: This is the exchange that they had that Agatha pumps out over the PA

[01:52:36] [SPEAKER_09]: when they were in the studio.

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_07]: OK, sure.

[01:52:41] [SPEAKER_07]: I get the pleasure of watching you do what you best.

[01:52:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is kill all the witches around one by one.

[01:52:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Then what?

[01:52:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Get your power and I get my bodies.

[01:52:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, that's my coven you're talking about.

[01:52:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not that kind of witch anymore.

[01:53:03] [SPEAKER_06]: So I don't believe you.

[01:53:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I don't know if you take any hints about from that as well.

[01:53:12] [SPEAKER_07]: But no, I was I was a little, you know,

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_07]: confused by this exchange that they're having here because I didn't know.

[01:53:24] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm still not certain about what she means that I get my bodies.

[01:53:30] [SPEAKER_07]: Is she a collector, which calls back to the green man, what you just said?

[01:53:37] [SPEAKER_07]: What is she?

[01:53:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Bodies for what?

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_09]: We have what do you do with the bodies?

[01:53:45] [SPEAKER_07]: You're right.

[01:53:46] [SPEAKER_07]: What would you?

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I'm really I'm a little bit confused.

[01:53:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Now, I'm wondering how they're going to explain it.

[01:53:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And I hope it doesn't go to the wayside.

[01:53:59] [SPEAKER_07]: That is something that's a one off that we do get an explanation about what she

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_07]: actually does and maybe that is part of what she regrets having done to Agatha.

[01:54:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Mm hmm.

[01:54:17] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. She's doing her job.

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Which caused her pain, which hurt her.

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Is that some sort of admission that she took part in the separation

[01:54:31] [SPEAKER_07]: of Agatha from her son?

[01:54:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:54:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know where my head's going.

[01:54:37] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. Yeah.

[01:54:38] [SPEAKER_09]: It's also interesting to note that all the other witches have amulets and Rio

[01:54:44] [SPEAKER_09]: has a dagger, as you mentioned.

[01:54:46] [SPEAKER_09]: So whatever that means.

[01:54:48] [SPEAKER_09]: The kind of painter is more aggressive.

[01:54:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Painter more as a killer.

[01:54:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:54:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[01:54:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, not even aggressive, just more as someone who's, you know,

[01:55:00] [SPEAKER_07]: very adept and very willing to use the dagger up close and personal because

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_07]: that's an up close and personal weapon.

[01:55:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:55:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's true.

[01:55:13] [SPEAKER_09]: That's true. It is an intimate weapon.

[01:55:15] [SPEAKER_07]: It is.

[01:55:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Mm hmm.

[01:55:17] [SPEAKER_07]: So again, I don't want Rio following me down this.

[01:55:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[01:55:22] [SPEAKER_09]: It's true.

[01:55:24] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah. So this brings us to the whole Agatha and Teen question where Rio asks

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_09]: in the studio, why did you bring that boy?

[01:55:32] [SPEAKER_09]: And Agatha is like, oh, many hands,

[01:55:34] [SPEAKER_09]: which I took to mean as like her being like, don't look at him too closely.

[01:55:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Like stay away from him.

[01:55:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Just like, oh, he's nothing.

[01:55:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Don't worry about it. Moving on.

[01:55:42] [SPEAKER_07]: I took a different meaning to that.

[01:55:44] [SPEAKER_07]: I took the with many hands, this load is not heavy.

[01:55:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Right. Right.

[01:55:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's what she was implying.

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I took it literally just like that.

[01:55:54] [SPEAKER_09]: OK.

[01:55:55] [SPEAKER_09]: But then she also there's this

[01:55:57] [SPEAKER_09]: when Agatha goes to check on Teen at the end of the episode,

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_09]: there's this interesting exchange.

[01:56:07] [SPEAKER_05]: You don't have to know a person's name to know who they are.

[01:56:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Careful, you don't say something nice to me.

[01:56:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I won't.

[01:56:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Agatha, what really happened to your son?

[01:56:37] [SPEAKER_05]: He'll fast.

[01:56:39] [SPEAKER_05]: We're not staying here long.

[01:56:44] [SPEAKER_09]: So that was for me the moment that confirmed to me that she thought he might be her son.

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_09]: And then of course, Rio says the thing she says about him not being after that.

[01:56:53] [SPEAKER_09]: How did you take that whole exchange?

[01:56:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that was really

[01:56:59] [SPEAKER_07]: her moment to to

[01:57:02] [SPEAKER_07]: say, wow, maybe I've had this all wrong.

[01:57:06] [SPEAKER_07]: And but again, you know,

[01:57:10] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm firmly of the belief that it's not her son.

[01:57:15] [SPEAKER_10]: OK.

[01:57:16] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I just don't believe Teen is her son at this point in time.

[01:57:22] [SPEAKER_07]: What intrigues me is what she says that

[01:57:26] [SPEAKER_07]: she doesn't know if she put the sigil on him because it would have wiped her mind as well.

[01:57:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[01:57:34] [SPEAKER_07]: In order to protect him, in order to protect Teen or whoever the sigil was put on,

[01:57:39] [SPEAKER_07]: the person who conjures it forgets that they actually conjured the sigil.

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_07]: That leaves an opening for me

[01:57:49] [SPEAKER_07]: to say that maybe she doesn't know

[01:57:55] [SPEAKER_07]: that she actually did put the sigil on Teen,

[01:57:59] [SPEAKER_07]: but it doesn't mean that Teen is her son.

[01:58:04] [SPEAKER_07]: She could have still put the sigil on.

[01:58:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[01:58:08] [SPEAKER_07]: Well, for different reasons than what we're thinking.

[01:58:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, last week she made a comment that it was crude, which makes me wonder

[01:58:17] [SPEAKER_09]: if it was hastily done the sigil.

[01:58:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Like so it could be so get we're in,

[01:58:24] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah, we're in the comic speculation part.

[01:58:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So we've talked in previous episodes about how I mean,

[01:58:31] [SPEAKER_09]: you know, I will eat a hat or something worse if this Teen doesn't get the code

[01:58:39] [SPEAKER_09]: name Wiccan, but that doesn't mean, but that the MCU always twists the version

[01:58:46] [SPEAKER_09]: from the comics, so we can.

[01:58:48] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm fairly certain we're not going to it's not going to be directly

[01:58:53] [SPEAKER_09]: what we saw in the comics, although it could be.

[01:58:56] [SPEAKER_09]: That's on the table.

[01:58:57] [SPEAKER_09]: But I do wonder it does make me wonder if like Wanda could be the

[01:59:02] [SPEAKER_09]: sorry for anyone who doesn't know or didn't listen to the previous episodes.

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_09]: The in the comics Wiccan, a.k.a.

[01:59:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Billy Kaplan, he is the reincarnated soul of Wanda's son, Billy,

[01:59:17] [SPEAKER_09]: who we met in Wanda vision.

[01:59:19] [SPEAKER_09]: So it does make me wonder if Wanda could be involved in the sigil somehow.

[01:59:23] [SPEAKER_09]: And maybe like hastily done because she was dying and like struck out magically to protect.

[01:59:29] [SPEAKER_07]: Which, you know, it's.

[01:59:33] [SPEAKER_07]: It kind of makes sense

[01:59:36] [SPEAKER_07]: because in the comics we've already seen Wanda

[01:59:40] [SPEAKER_07]: be under pressure and just lash out and do something that she did not intend

[01:59:45] [SPEAKER_07]: on doing, but she did when she said no more mutants, which, you know, wiped out,

[01:59:52] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, 99 percent of the population in the comics, the depowered them,

[01:59:58] [SPEAKER_07]: which led to consequences.

[02:00:02] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, I can see that what you just

[02:00:07] [SPEAKER_07]: I can see that occurring that she's in peril

[02:00:13] [SPEAKER_07]: and she does something much like Lorna did

[02:00:17] [SPEAKER_07]: is something to protect her child.

[02:00:20] [SPEAKER_07]: Right. And

[02:00:22] [SPEAKER_07]: to protect her child from other magic

[02:00:28] [SPEAKER_07]: wielding peoples.

[02:00:30] [SPEAKER_07]: So that's an interesting thing that I think might actually be it.

[02:00:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:00:37] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not 100 percent sure, though.

[02:00:38] [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, I mean, we have no idea.

[02:00:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, no idea.

[02:00:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Or I still put out there that like could there I do think whatever the outcome is

[02:00:50] [SPEAKER_09]: this whole situation with Agatha and her son, who I still think we saw in the

[02:00:55] [SPEAKER_09]: first episode whispering down her through the stacks,

[02:00:58] [SPEAKER_09]: that I think that somehow this situation is going to draw those two

[02:01:03] [SPEAKER_09]: give Agatha more of an understanding of Wanda,

[02:01:07] [SPEAKER_09]: or maybe this is why Agatha got interested in Wanda in the first place.

[02:01:13] [SPEAKER_09]: She's like this chaos magic seems to have control over life or death.

[02:01:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Could I use it to get my son back?

[02:01:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Because at one point, you know, when Agatha kills the dog and the kids are

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_09]: like, mommy, mommy, can you bring the dog back?

[02:01:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And Agatha looks at her and she's like, can you?

[02:01:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:01:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:01:36] [SPEAKER_07]: That's interesting.

[02:01:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[02:01:39] [SPEAKER_09]: We find out that sigils are not lifted.

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_09]: They are destroyed when they're no longer needed.

[02:01:45] [SPEAKER_09]: So I guess when teen no longer needs to be protected.

[02:01:53] [SPEAKER_07]: But it's just.

[02:01:56] [SPEAKER_07]: Again, we're assuming that the sigils there to protect teen from others.

[02:02:02] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[02:02:05] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[02:02:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.

[02:02:07] [SPEAKER_09]: You think it might be another way around

[02:02:10] [SPEAKER_09]: to protect others from teens real identity?

[02:02:13] [SPEAKER_07]: It just comes down to who teen is

[02:02:18] [SPEAKER_07]: and how did teen come to be?

[02:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[02:02:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Because.

[02:02:24] [SPEAKER_07]: How teen came to be will play an important role in

[02:02:30] [SPEAKER_07]: why teen is to be protected or feared?

[02:02:35] [SPEAKER_10]: Right.

[02:02:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And the sigil could be for teens protection or for our own.

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[02:02:45] [SPEAKER_07]: For the world's protection, I should say.

[02:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[02:02:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Which one is it?

[02:02:50] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not sure.

[02:02:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.

[02:02:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we were now like just about halfway through the season.

[02:02:58] [SPEAKER_09]: So we have five episodes left to hopefully find this stuff out.

[02:03:04] [SPEAKER_09]: We in terms of the elemental trials, earth and air remains, which would be Rio and Lillia.

[02:03:11] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'm guessing episodes five and six will be those two.

[02:03:14] [SPEAKER_09]: That's going to be my guess.

[02:03:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting to note that this episode, the first episode, the leaves were kind of blue,

[02:03:21] [SPEAKER_09]: which is like the water trial.

[02:03:23] [SPEAKER_09]: And then this episode started with the leaves red fire.

[02:03:28] [SPEAKER_09]: And then at the end of the episode after this trial, so presumably setting up

[02:03:31] [SPEAKER_09]: the next one, the leaves are purple.

[02:03:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what that means.

[02:03:36] [SPEAKER_09]: My guess is that Agatha's trial will then be episode seven.

[02:03:39] [SPEAKER_09]: And then we get the two part finale eight and nine on Halloween.

[02:03:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But now we have a new version of the Ballad of the Witches Road lyrics.

[02:03:49] [SPEAKER_09]: So shall we talk through that real quick to see if we can find any new clues?

[02:03:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, let's do it.

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_09]: So we have so Lorna singing, I have learned the lesson of all its foul and fair.

[02:04:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Our love was forged in fire, water, earth and air.

[02:04:08] [SPEAKER_09]: So our love, that family or yeah.

[02:04:12] [SPEAKER_09]: It's also interesting that Agatha was singing this later.

[02:04:15] [SPEAKER_07]: You know, yes.

[02:04:17] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm the lyrics.

[02:04:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Should we be literal, literal in our adaptation and our viewing and our thinking

[02:04:28] [SPEAKER_07]: of the lyrics?

[02:04:30] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, we were told by the show runners that there are clues in the lyrics and

[02:04:35] [SPEAKER_09]: that they were that the Lopez's who wrote these songs, the Ballad songs,

[02:04:42] [SPEAKER_09]: that they were handed, they were told, make a catchy song with these concepts in it.

[02:04:51] [SPEAKER_09]: So we should take something from it.

[02:04:53] [SPEAKER_09]: And then we hear the next lyrics are the spell is cast how long it lasts.

[02:04:57] [SPEAKER_09]: I cannot divine the road is there and so I dare to risk this heart of mine.

[02:05:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Which the first part sounds like it could be Lorna talking to Alice.

[02:05:08] [SPEAKER_09]: But then the second part that to risk this heart of mine is almost like Agatha speaking.

[02:05:13] [SPEAKER_07]: I thought it was Agatha speaking.

[02:05:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah.

[02:05:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And then we get down, down, down, you know, down the witch's road,

[02:05:20] [SPEAKER_09]: following my friends to glory at the end.

[02:05:23] [SPEAKER_09]: That's the same.

[02:05:24] [SPEAKER_09]: And then I have known the power of midnight in the wood.

[02:05:27] [SPEAKER_09]: I've danced inside the circle of all that's bad and good.

[02:05:31] [SPEAKER_09]: So we again get that bad and good duality that's in the original lyrics,

[02:05:36] [SPEAKER_09]: but with a new twist.

[02:05:39] [SPEAKER_09]: The danger is great.

[02:05:40] [SPEAKER_09]: The trials wait for those that seek the prize.

[02:05:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Tame your fears.

[02:05:45] [SPEAKER_09]: A door appears to love that never dies.

[02:05:47] [SPEAKER_09]: So this one is much more about

[02:05:50] [SPEAKER_09]: all everlasting love rather than the original lyrics.

[02:05:54] [SPEAKER_07]: And again, I have to say that's

[02:05:57] [SPEAKER_07]: isn't that Agatha speaking again?

[02:06:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, this is the question.

[02:06:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, Lorna ostensibly wrote these lyrics.

[02:06:05] [SPEAKER_09]: But when I couldn't help when I was like listening to this song to pull out bits of

[02:06:10] [SPEAKER_09]: it for this episode, you know, I couldn't help.

[02:06:12] [SPEAKER_09]: I was like, this is Agatha's Agatha's voice saying these things.

[02:06:14] [SPEAKER_09]: And there is real emotion in the way she's singing these words.

[02:06:19] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, we get the chorus again as we go down, down, down the witch's road.

[02:06:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Blood and tears and bone together and alone.

[02:06:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Which is kind of how life feels always together and alone.

[02:06:33] [SPEAKER_09]: And then that bridge, which the title episode comes from.

[02:06:39] [SPEAKER_09]: If I can't reach you, let my song teach you all you need to keep our love alive.

[02:06:44] [SPEAKER_09]: If I can't hold you, remember what I told you.

[02:06:47] [SPEAKER_09]: It's the only way we survive.

[02:06:50] [SPEAKER_09]: That sounds very much like Lorna speaking directly to Alice.

[02:06:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:06:55] [SPEAKER_09]: And then the verse three.

[02:06:57] [SPEAKER_09]: The road is wild and wicked, winding out of time.

[02:07:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Still we face our fortune chasing the sublime.

[02:07:04] [SPEAKER_09]: What's lost is found.

[02:07:06] [SPEAKER_09]: What's fierce is bound.

[02:07:07] [SPEAKER_09]: We're broken and we're burned.

[02:07:10] [SPEAKER_09]: But take a breath and dance with death.

[02:07:13] [SPEAKER_09]: My love cannot be turned.

[02:07:15] [SPEAKER_09]: So we're broken and we're burned.

[02:07:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Sounds like very much like the woo curse.

[02:07:19] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[02:07:20] [SPEAKER_09]: The woo family curse.

[02:07:21] [SPEAKER_07]: What's fierce is bound.

[02:07:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[02:07:24] [SPEAKER_09]: What's fierce is bound.

[02:07:26] [SPEAKER_09]: That sounds very Jennifer.

[02:07:28] [SPEAKER_07]: What's lost is found.

[02:07:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[02:07:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, maybe Nicholas.

[02:07:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Winding out of time.

[02:07:38] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah.

[02:07:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Winding out of time.

[02:07:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Who are we already been speculating?

[02:07:42] [SPEAKER_07]: We've been speculating.

[02:07:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Right, Lilia.

[02:07:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[02:07:47] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's true.

[02:07:48] [SPEAKER_09]: So it's almost like Lorna, she's not the divination which she's a protection

[02:07:53] [SPEAKER_09]: which presumably, you know, that's where Alice got her power from.

[02:07:56] [SPEAKER_09]: But it almost seems like she was foreseeing things or maybe she did step on the road

[02:08:02] [SPEAKER_09]: somehow and got these teases of what would happen for her daughter in the future.

[02:08:11] [SPEAKER_09]: And then we get this dance.

[02:08:12] [SPEAKER_09]: We in the original version, there's a line about holding death's hand in mine.

[02:08:17] [SPEAKER_09]: And this one is and dance with death.

[02:08:19] [SPEAKER_09]: So a lot about death on the road.

[02:08:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And my love cannot be turned.

[02:08:25] [SPEAKER_09]: And then the final course down, down, down the witch's road.

[02:08:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Wherever it may bend, I'll see you at the end.

[02:08:34] [SPEAKER_09]: That must be Sharon.

[02:08:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Sharon Justice 4.

[02:08:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'll see you at the end.

[02:08:40] [SPEAKER_09]: She repeats.

[02:08:43] [SPEAKER_09]: So hmm.

[02:08:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I don't know.

[02:08:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I think there probably are more clues in there.

[02:08:49] [SPEAKER_09]: But we're going to look at them in retrospect and be like, oh.

[02:08:55] [SPEAKER_07]: We'll see.

[02:08:56] [SPEAKER_07]: We'll see.

[02:08:57] [SPEAKER_07]: But I think that last the last verse was speaking to each member of the couple.

[02:09:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And the previous like pointed out sounded a lot like Agatha's.

[02:09:11] [SPEAKER_07]: What she is experiencing in this

[02:09:16] [SPEAKER_07]: series as well as speaking to what Alice is experiencing in this episode.

[02:09:23] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.

[02:09:24] [SPEAKER_07]: So the song actually has done triple work here in this episode.

[02:09:30] [SPEAKER_07]: It's tied in all the characters to the road to story.

[02:09:37] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, which is brilliant, actually.

[02:09:39] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, as I'm thinking about it.

[02:09:41] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, really good.

[02:09:44] [SPEAKER_09]: All right.

[02:09:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, let's get into the feedback.

[02:09:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Should we take turns with you starting with your nieces?

[02:09:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, sure.

[02:09:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.

[02:09:52] [SPEAKER_07]: So one of my nieces wrote, Tima wrote.

[02:09:57] [SPEAKER_07]: And she says, hi, good morning.

[02:09:59] [SPEAKER_07]: We caught up on Agatha last night.

[02:10:01] [SPEAKER_07]: She and her partner.

[02:10:03] [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm curious about Jen's story about being bound by a doctor at the American

[02:10:09] [SPEAKER_07]: obstetricians summit.

[02:10:11] [SPEAKER_07]: She was a midwife and some white man with a degree took away her power,

[02:10:16] [SPEAKER_07]: which is what happened to black midwives after obstetrics was professionalized.

[02:10:23] [SPEAKER_07]: Also, it feels like a J.

[02:10:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Marion Sims reference.

[02:10:27] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm intrigued.

[02:10:29] [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, I spent the last episode,

[02:10:34] [SPEAKER_07]: you know, and talking about how Jen got her power back.

[02:10:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm hmm.

[02:10:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:10:44] [SPEAKER_07]: And when I read what my niece wrote, I'm just like,

[02:10:48] [SPEAKER_07]: his in historically black women

[02:10:54] [SPEAKER_07]: have been this source of power in the community.

[02:10:58] [SPEAKER_07]: And throughout American society and culture

[02:11:04] [SPEAKER_07]: and throughout the centuries, that power has always been taken or tried to be taken

[02:11:13] [SPEAKER_07]: from them, right?

[02:11:15] [SPEAKER_07]: So we have Jen who's a midwife and we already

[02:11:19] [SPEAKER_07]: you referenced the hoodoo version of the character, right?

[02:11:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Which is traditions coming from enslaved Africans in this country of ours.

[02:11:32] [SPEAKER_11]: Mm hmm.

[02:11:33] [SPEAKER_07]: And now, you know, the imagery of this white man

[02:11:39] [SPEAKER_07]: taking her and submerging her in the sink,

[02:11:43] [SPEAKER_07]: which is what they did to witches, right?

[02:11:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Submerged them in water

[02:11:49] [SPEAKER_07]: and she is bound.

[02:11:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Not able to fully access all the power that she has, everything that she all

[02:11:57] [SPEAKER_07]: the knowledge that she has has been stolen from her.

[02:12:03] [SPEAKER_07]: Has been taken from her.

[02:12:06] [SPEAKER_07]: That's really, you know, some next level shit that they're doing in this series.

[02:12:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sorry.

[02:12:13] [SPEAKER_09]: No, she has the knowledge, but she can't use it.

[02:12:15] [SPEAKER_09]: She's not allowed to access.

[02:12:17] [SPEAKER_09]: She can't use it.

[02:12:18] [SPEAKER_07]: She's not allowed to access this knowledge, this power that she inherited,

[02:12:24] [SPEAKER_07]: that she learned, that she imbues.

[02:12:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Which even Agatha called the important work in the last episode.

[02:12:33] [SPEAKER_07]: Right.

[02:12:34] [SPEAKER_07]: So just.

[02:12:37] [SPEAKER_07]: The show runners are doing interesting things

[02:12:42] [SPEAKER_07]: that as I peel them back and as other people peel them back.

[02:12:48] [SPEAKER_07]: The layers that are being exposed are fascinating.

[02:12:55] [SPEAKER_07]: And I just have to give credit to them

[02:13:00] [SPEAKER_07]: for us to be able to have that sort of

[02:13:06] [SPEAKER_07]: insight into our own real history while watching this show.

[02:13:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Is really a testament to what they're.

[02:13:16] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[02:13:17] [SPEAKER_07]: So thanks, Tima, for bringing that up in my mind because I was I was dealing.

[02:13:24] [SPEAKER_07]: I was, you know, wrestling with this question of Jennifer.

[02:13:28] [SPEAKER_07]: For.

[02:13:30] [SPEAKER_07]: This really powerful black woman being submerged in water and bound by this white man.

[02:13:37] [SPEAKER_07]: And to see and to make the connection between her being a midwife and him being

[02:13:43] [SPEAKER_07]: an obstetrician and taking her power away, taking what she does away in a real

[02:13:51] [SPEAKER_07]: world in a real way and in a magical way.

[02:13:55] [SPEAKER_07]: Man, that's good stuff.

[02:13:58] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, absolutely.

[02:14:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:14:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And Maureen D.

[02:14:05] [SPEAKER_09]: So I'll read the which wrote after episode three, if you want to read which

[02:14:09] [SPEAKER_09]: wrote after episode four, but after episode three, she wrote for what it's worth.

[02:14:14] [SPEAKER_09]: The response to the poison in the wine reminded me of Twilight Zone

[02:14:18] [SPEAKER_09]: episode the masks from 1964.

[02:14:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And the house reminds me of the house in the summer I turned pretty,

[02:14:24] [SPEAKER_09]: which is more of a teen romance story, not a murder, but a mini series.

[02:14:28] [SPEAKER_09]: Even closer match would be the perfect couple house and then tuck it.

[02:14:32] [SPEAKER_09]: But that just released or nine perfect strangers.

[02:14:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Also Nicole Kimman films.

[02:14:37] [SPEAKER_09]: I just watched, by the way, the perfect couple with my mom.

[02:14:39] [SPEAKER_09]: And that was a fun little murder mystery on Netflix.

[02:14:42] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, that just released like literally a couple of weeks ago.

[02:14:45] [SPEAKER_09]: But yeah, I think it's it's pooling on this like archetype with

[02:14:50] [SPEAKER_09]: because Nicole Kimman is also in in perfect little lies, which was the direct

[02:14:57] [SPEAKER_09]: reference, you know, yes, sorry, it was big little lies.

[02:15:01] [SPEAKER_07]: Big little lies.

[02:15:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:15:05] [SPEAKER_09]: And Maureen said from the podcast, I appreciated hearing a musician's take

[02:15:09] [SPEAKER_09]: on the witches singing.

[02:15:11] [SPEAKER_09]: I've been seeing criticism online about how the song being too perfect

[02:15:14] [SPEAKER_09]: about the song being too perfect and it ruined it for me a bit.

[02:15:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Now I can enjoy it.

[02:15:19] [SPEAKER_09]: I enjoy it again.

[02:15:20] [SPEAKER_09]: So thank you, Mark for that.

[02:15:22] [SPEAKER_09]: You helped Maureen and hopefully others enjoy it again more.

[02:15:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Um, Maureen continues.

[02:15:28] [SPEAKER_07]: This is for episode four on the Wizard of Oz theme.

[02:15:32] [SPEAKER_07]: We got a nice shot of Rio or B Plaza skipping down the road.

[02:15:36] [SPEAKER_07]: Also, it struck me that we get another house.

[02:15:39] [SPEAKER_07]: It seems that they are each confronting their past and going back home.

[02:15:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Also, teen says, I wish we could go home.

[02:15:48] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[02:15:49] [SPEAKER_07]: There's a real 60.

[02:15:50] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, there's a real 60s, 70s vibe to the episode.

[02:15:54] [SPEAKER_07]: Playing vinyl records backwards was said to reveal Satanic backmasking messages.

[02:16:01] [SPEAKER_07]: The Beatles Revolution nine was said to say Paul is dead.

[02:16:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Other records, for example, Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd were set to

[02:16:11] [SPEAKER_07]: possess people with satanic messages when played in reverse.

[02:16:14] [SPEAKER_07]: She shared an image of the Fleetwood Mac poster

[02:16:18] [SPEAKER_07]: from the episode 1977, rather specifically, it seems.

[02:16:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:16:24] [SPEAKER_09]: So that's interesting because she pointed out that the Fleetwood Mac poster has

[02:16:29] [SPEAKER_09]: the year 1977, so it was a 1977 tour poster and the Suspiria movie

[02:16:35] [SPEAKER_09]: that I was talking about, the Dario Gento original version is from 1977.

[02:16:40] [SPEAKER_07]: Ah.

[02:16:42] [SPEAKER_07]: Though not a witchy reference, there seem to be an Alice in Wonderland theme.

[02:16:47] [SPEAKER_07]: Alice, don't eat anything.

[02:16:49] [SPEAKER_07]: Don't drink anything.

[02:16:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Rio says there's a story there.

[02:16:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I did definitely get Alice in Wonderland vibes with that.

[02:16:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Like, don't eat anything.

[02:16:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Don't drink anything.

[02:16:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I was like, does it make you bigger or smaller?

[02:17:02] [SPEAKER_09]: And makes you sorry.

[02:17:04] [SPEAKER_07]: And then no, but just when she says

[02:17:07] [SPEAKER_07]: when Marines rights, they're going back home

[02:17:12] [SPEAKER_07]: and to what I just said about, you know,

[02:17:16] [SPEAKER_07]: team are writing about the obstressive.

[02:17:22] [SPEAKER_07]: Just the house that they were in was so cold, was so surgical

[02:17:27] [SPEAKER_07]: in episode three.

[02:17:29] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, in a way, I see what Maureen is saying because I didn't put those

[02:17:34] [SPEAKER_07]: things together at first.

[02:17:36] [SPEAKER_07]: But now I'm like, I'm thinking about the house that they were in an episode three

[02:17:40] [SPEAKER_07]: and it looked as clean as a surgical room.

[02:17:45] [SPEAKER_10]: Mm hmm.

[02:17:47] [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.

[02:17:48] [SPEAKER_07]: It was white.

[02:17:49] [SPEAKER_07]: It was bright and stainless medical.

[02:17:52] [SPEAKER_07]: Medical, very medical.

[02:17:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's a good point.

[02:17:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Good point.

[02:18:00] [SPEAKER_09]: So Abby says this episode was magical.

[02:18:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I see what you did there.

[02:18:04] [SPEAKER_09]: It's interesting how Agatha doesn't seem to really care about the rest of the quote

[02:18:08] [SPEAKER_09]: unquote coven, but is very worried for team.

[02:18:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Teen, I wonder what Mark from Nevermind the Music will say about the newest

[02:18:16] [SPEAKER_09]: rendition of the song.

[02:18:17] [SPEAKER_09]: So, Mark, we're waiting for your thoughts on the new version.

[02:18:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Eon simply says best episode so far.

[02:18:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Fair.

[02:18:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And Davey Max says loved Aubrey Plaza in this episode.

[02:18:34] [SPEAKER_09]: The way we the way all play off of each other is great and she adds an interesting

[02:18:40] [SPEAKER_09]: dynamic to the mix is always great indeed.

[02:18:43] [SPEAKER_07]: Jesse writes in now that I've slept on it and rewatched,

[02:18:47] [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to need everyone to start watching Agatha all along.

[02:18:51] [SPEAKER_07]: Listen, I figured I'd like it since I love Katherine Hahn, but I was not

[02:18:56] [SPEAKER_07]: expecting to love it as much as I loved Wanda vision.

[02:19:00] [SPEAKER_07]: It just keeps getting better and better.

[02:19:02] [SPEAKER_07]: The bonding around the fire was chef's.

[02:19:06] [SPEAKER_07]: I have to touch on the incredible layers of all these characters.

[02:19:12] [SPEAKER_07]: I loved Agatha already just as the campy, overly dramatic character from Wanda

[02:19:17] [SPEAKER_07]: vision, but she 100 percent owns my heart now with the depths.

[02:19:21] [SPEAKER_07]: Katherine Hahn is showcasing with just her face.

[02:19:25] [SPEAKER_07]: It's incredible to watch seriously.

[02:19:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Katherine's ability to convey emotions with just her face and body language is amazing.

[02:19:34] [SPEAKER_07]: I am in awe.

[02:19:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, absolutely.

[02:19:37] [SPEAKER_09]: We see so much more.

[02:19:38] [SPEAKER_09]: We see so many different sides of Agatha in this, you know, where she's not

[02:19:42] [SPEAKER_09]: just campy and fun, there's little peaks of vulnerability.

[02:19:48] [SPEAKER_09]: So Aaron Kay from radioactive ramblings, one of our own says this series is

[02:19:52] [SPEAKER_09]: just everything I wanted and more out of a project centered around Agatha.

[02:19:56] [SPEAKER_09]: So and I have to say, they're not everyone unanimously loved this episode

[02:20:03] [SPEAKER_09]: to the same degree, but a lot of people did and yay, I want to sell it.

[02:20:07] [SPEAKER_06]: That's fine. That's OK.

[02:20:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Now.

[02:20:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we this episode is running rather long, but I hope

[02:20:15] [SPEAKER_09]: it was so much depth to this we couldn't help ourselves.

[02:20:19] [SPEAKER_09]: But we will be continuing our coverage, of course, every week through October,

[02:20:24] [SPEAKER_09]: including the double finale for Halloween.

[02:20:26] [SPEAKER_09]: So and next week, we're also going to be doing an episode talking about the

[02:20:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Penguin episodes two and three with David.

[02:20:34] [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.

[02:20:36] [SPEAKER_07]: And how do you feel so far?

[02:20:40] [SPEAKER_09]: So far, I mean, so episode two, I think it was more good stuff of the same.

[02:20:45] [SPEAKER_09]: I think I love the parallel they're setting up between Oz and Sophia.

[02:20:50] [SPEAKER_09]: Like these are the two central characters in the episode, of course,

[02:20:54] [SPEAKER_09]: and Vic too, who's kind of Oz clearly sees as a younger version of himself.

[02:21:00] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, I'm very intrigued about how they're setting up the pieces

[02:21:03] [SPEAKER_09]: and how they're going to play out. What about you?

[02:21:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I love it.

[02:21:07] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.

[02:21:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, a different comic book flavor, but also very good.

[02:21:12] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it's not even, you know,

[02:21:16] [SPEAKER_07]: good beyond just a comic book.

[02:21:19] [SPEAKER_07]: I crime, mob, gangs.

[02:21:24] [SPEAKER_07]: Give me all of it.

[02:21:25] [SPEAKER_07]: Give me all of it.

[02:21:29] [SPEAKER_09]: And probably the beginning of the following week, we're going to do our

[02:21:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Joker 2 discussion.

[02:21:34] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think.

[02:21:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I'm not sure how deep of a dive that's going to be.

[02:21:39] [SPEAKER_09]: You and I still both have to see it.

[02:21:41] [SPEAKER_09]: I actually have I've covered right now, so I'm not going to the movie theaters this week.

[02:21:46] [SPEAKER_07]: But I don't know about this one.

[02:21:50] [SPEAKER_09]: I've seen such mixed reviews where people absolutely love it or are so disappointed.

[02:21:56] [SPEAKER_09]: So part of me is like anyone who dislikes it because there is musical elements.

[02:22:02] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm like, well, then I'm inclined to like it.

[02:22:03] [SPEAKER_09]: So I don't know. I'm going in with a wide open mind.

[02:22:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.

[02:22:08] [SPEAKER_07]: I haven't heard or seen anyone who disliked it because of the music elements.

[02:22:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm hmm.

[02:22:15] [SPEAKER_09]: They mostly heard people complaining about that beforehand, but like they did with

[02:22:19] [SPEAKER_09]: that got the two. So right, right.

[02:22:21] [SPEAKER_07]: And the cover on they were with that.

[02:22:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah.

[02:22:24] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, well, we'll see.

[02:22:26] [SPEAKER_09]: We'll see where we both land on this.

[02:22:27] [SPEAKER_09]: The first Joker I appreciate more than I actually liked.

[02:22:31] [SPEAKER_09]: So if this one's different, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

[02:22:35] [SPEAKER_09]: The bad thing from my perspective.

[02:22:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah.

[02:22:39] [SPEAKER_09]: And yes, meanwhile, the guys in Maryland are wrapping up Tolkien,

[02:22:44] [SPEAKER_09]: wrapping up the Rings of Power, and they're going to have a special live cast

[02:22:49] [SPEAKER_09]: discussion with cross pods.

[02:22:51] [SPEAKER_09]: So a bunch of different Tolkien podcasts are getting together to discuss live.

[02:22:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Please listen to there was a teaser clip released in this feed so you can

[02:23:02] [SPEAKER_09]: find out all the details about that.

[02:23:04] [SPEAKER_09]: And there are also recently the other one shots released alien Romulus is going

[02:23:08] [SPEAKER_09]: to be a community feedback episode to wrap up that whole alien series.

[02:23:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Look out for that next week.

[02:23:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice one shots out and Spooktober has just begun.

[02:23:19] [SPEAKER_09]: So watch out for the craft coverage on the wool shift dust feed and a the

[02:23:24] [SPEAKER_09]: history of the evolution of the Coven that I mentioned earlier this episode

[02:23:28] [SPEAKER_09]: with a classic Scottish folk tale audio drama for subscribers.

[02:23:32] [SPEAKER_09]: And there's going to be coverage of the entire poltergeist film series across

[02:23:36] [SPEAKER_09]: the public and private Lorhounds feeds and another Sith story from legends

[02:23:42] [SPEAKER_09]: for a canon Padawan subscribers with a look at two more Star Wars visions

[02:23:46] [SPEAKER_09]: episodes, looking at Shadows of the Sith in the Old Republic in the public.

[02:23:50] [SPEAKER_09]: The Star Wars canon timeline podcast feed coming this week.

[02:23:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Plus both doonbook deep dives and more

[02:23:56] [SPEAKER_09]: silo coverage coming to wool shift dust this month.

[02:24:00] [SPEAKER_09]: So you will find a link tree in the show notes with links to all of those podcasts

[02:24:06] [SPEAKER_09]: and never mind the music which we've discussed so you can find all that.

[02:24:12] [SPEAKER_09]: And of course, you know, supercast and

[02:24:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Patreon subscribers do get early ad free access extra episodes like second

[02:24:19] [SPEAKER_09]: breakfast and 11 Z's which this month will is pray the as in the

[02:24:24] [SPEAKER_09]: predator movie pray and there's also show guides there for biggest shows like

[02:24:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Rings of Power and other little extras along the way.

[02:24:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Anything you want to add, Joe?

[02:24:37] [SPEAKER_07]: No, I think you got it all.

[02:24:40] [SPEAKER_09]: You've been doing your comic book drops on discord.

[02:24:44] [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[02:24:45] [SPEAKER_07]: Check them out weekly from my polls.

[02:24:48] [SPEAKER_07]: I give you what I think are the best comics from

[02:24:51] [SPEAKER_07]: the week that I've pulled that I've collected and last week goes to Storm number one.

[02:24:56] [SPEAKER_09]: So yes, I'm very excited to to to read that one because obviously as we've

[02:25:01] [SPEAKER_09]: discussed, storms are my favorite characters.

[02:25:03] [SPEAKER_09]: But I feel like yeah, I need to catch up on the Krakko stuff.

[02:25:06] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yes, catch up on all the X-Men stuff because now is a good time to jump

[02:25:11] [SPEAKER_07]: into X-Men universe because they're dealing with the fallout from their

[02:25:16] [SPEAKER_07]: last major error from the last five years.

[02:25:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So you get in on the ground and you don't need to be well versed in what happened

[02:25:24] [SPEAKER_07]: before to know what's happening now.

[02:25:26] [SPEAKER_07]: And also for DC Comics, they're about to start this new age of DC Comics DC all in.

[02:25:34] [SPEAKER_07]: So again, this is a great way if you're so inclined to get in on the ground

[02:25:40] [SPEAKER_07]: floor, don't need to know a whole lot about what happened prior to.

[02:25:44] [SPEAKER_10]: They'll recap what you need to know.

[02:25:46] [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so exciting time for comic book collectors.

[02:25:50] [SPEAKER_07]: There's definitely.

[02:25:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[02:25:52] [SPEAKER_09]: All right. Of course, we can't let you go without shouting out our Discord server

[02:25:58] [SPEAKER_09]: boosters and our lore masters.

[02:26:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And of course I have music queued up.

[02:26:03] [SPEAKER_09]: So this one is the Hall of Idols from the Ambient folder.

[02:26:08] [SPEAKER_09]: So here we go.

[02:26:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Gosh.

[02:26:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you to our Discord server boosters, Aaron Kay, Tiller the Thriller,

[02:26:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Dork of the Ninjas, Dube71,

[02:26:20] [SPEAKER_09]: Athena Agileia, Adrienne Tina, Lestu, Nancy M and Ghost of Partition.

[02:26:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And thank you especially to our lore masters, our highest tier of subscribers

[02:26:30] [SPEAKER_09]: who make it possible to financially support what we are doing here.

[02:26:36] [SPEAKER_09]: And that is Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, David W.

[02:26:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Brian P, S.C. Peter, OH, Bettina W, Adam S, Nancy M,

[02:26:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Dube71, Brian, 8063, Frederick H, Sarah L, Gareth C, Eric F, Matthew M,

[02:26:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Sarah M, DJ Miwa, Andre B, Kwon U, Dead Eye, Jedi Bob, Nathan T, Alex V,

[02:26:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Aaron T, Sub Zero, Aaron Kay, Dally V, MotherShip, Narrows,

[02:27:04] [SPEAKER_09]: Kathy W, Lestu, Jeffrey B, Elisa U, Fasi U, Neil F, Ben B,

[02:27:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Charlotte M, Scott F and Always Last, Adrienne.

[02:27:14] [SPEAKER_09]: And thank you also to our Lorehounds subscribers and to just to everyone who's

[02:27:18] [SPEAKER_09]: listening like we genuinely can't do this without you and we love doing this.

[02:27:23] [SPEAKER_07]: So yeah, thank you for the support.

[02:27:26] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for the listens.

[02:27:28] [SPEAKER_07]: Thank for your feedback and yeah, we cast the child.

[02:27:31] [SPEAKER_09]: And if you're enjoying our Agatha coverage, then please share it with

[02:27:36] [SPEAKER_09]: other people who you think might also enjoy it.

[02:27:38] [SPEAKER_09]: We'll see you again next week with a new child.

[02:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: The Lorehounds podcast is produced and published by the Lorehounds.

[02:27:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You can send questions and feedback and voicemails at thelorehounds.com slash

[02:27:52] [SPEAKER_01]: contact, get early and ad free access to all Lorehounds podcast at patreon.com

[02:27:58] [SPEAKER_01]: slash the Lorehounds.

[02:27:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or

[02:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: belong to any employers or other entities.